WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 656 - Robert Trujillo & Flea / Aziz Ansari

Episode Date: November 19, 2015

Metallica’s Robert Trujillo and Flea of Red Hot Chili Peppers are two of the best bass players on earth. Now both of them are in the garage, paying tribute to Jaco Pastorius, a bass legend who is the subject of a new documentary that Robert made. Plus, Aziz Ansari also stops to talk about his new series, Master of None. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck sticks? What the fucking ears? What the fuckingistas? What's happening? I am maron this is wtf my podcast thank you for listening welcome to the show all those of you who are insulated perhaps uh working in the arctic welcome welcome those of you in labs

welcome all people who repair shoes welcome how are you this is an interesting show today going to uh to talk to uh aziz ansari as you know sometimes on this show when fellow comedians have things to plug and i have a relationship with that fellow comedian and we want to talk about you know that project uh have mom for a shorty that's what we call them behind your back we call them shorties so this would be um theoretically an aziz shorty but uh but it's not because aziz and i got to talking about his new show master of none and and the nature of it the the reality of it we sort of got into a nuts and bolts conversation a little bit about you know making television what sort of became a theme of our conversation is the idea that he is actually doing something that hasn't

been done before and in that uh the uh the diversity of his show there there just became a conversation about the opportunities and the the possibilities of uh working around the major networks to do things that haven't been done before. But Aziza and I have a nice chat. And then sort of an interesting thing happened. Robert Trujillo, the bass player of Metallica, is involved with a movie that I saw a screening of early on. This movie is about Jaco Pastorius.

There's a big event for the premiere of the film. It's a concert and the film. That's going to be this Sunday, November 22nd at the Ace in Los Angeles. You can get tickets for that and get info on the screeners or pre-order the Blu-ray and DVD at jacothefilm.com.

Now, this is not any sort of paid plug. It's like, maybe I should talk about this before I bring them on. But this guy, I'd always heard about Jaco Pastorius. And I'd always heard that he was this brilliant, genius, savant-like bass player that changed the entire game of bass playing. I think he played with, was it Weather Report and Joni Mitchell, did a couple of solo records, but that's not necessarily my kind of music, right? Fusion, Joni Mitchell, not necessarily the first things I listened to or would necessarily even appreciate the bass so much, you know, in terms of focusing on it. And I'd always heard about him and the horrible, sad, sort of tragic end that he met, but it's just

this tragic tale of a tortured genius, a pure artist that I was asked to come see a rough cut of it. And I was thrilled about it and that it was happening, but these two guys are the best fucking rock bass players in the business. And they both came to talk about bass and talk about Jocko and to talk about the film a bit because i think it's an important film and you know i'm a music guy so that's exciting and that's going to happen you're going to witness that it's going to happen it's going to happen right here on this show that you're listening to after aziz ansari yeah so aziz me and aziz he's been on the show before but like i said we were going to just kind of talk about

his new show. We ended up talking about a lot of things and we ended up sort of coming around on some stuff, you know, talking about, you know, the nature of television in a lot of ways. And it turned out to be a much more engaging conversation than even I expected because I thought it was just going to be a little one and it turned out to be kind of a medium-sized one. All right. So this is me and Aziz. As I said, the show is Master of None. It's streaming now on Netflix. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats.

Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising.

Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. thanks aziz uh it's been a while since we were in here when was it i don't fucking know you don't know don't you keep track you're a very meticulous guy aren't you on top of this stuff where's the i thought you had a some sort of large graph and table of your entire career that you just did like mathematics and everything was coming out fucking roses. Is that some sort of strange Indian joke? I hadn't thought about it, but you're doing great.

I think the last time I saw you, we were in... It was coincidence. We were out of town. Why did we were in uh we were it was coincidence we were out of town why did we what were we do what how come we were at that hotel we were both in boston i can't remember right i can't remember why i was there i think i was there for something for my book and you were too we were both doing something i was doing some weird conference thing we were both doing this weird thing in boston and i was like yo and then paul feig was there yeah because he was shooting ghostbusters yeah it was one of those things where you're by yourself

in Boston. Ah, comedians! Let's hang out in the lobby. Let's eat dinner. And then we talked for a while and he told me about the new show and I knew nothing about it. But I enjoy talking to you. Well, what do you do? Do you have a place here now in LA?

I have a place here, yeah LA? I have a place here. Yeah. That I got when I was doing Parks and Rec, but I mainly live in New York now. So what do you do? But like, you're just going to keep this place to hang out at occasionally? Yeah, I still come back and I don't know if we do a second season, if we'll end up riding in LA. So you never really know.

Because the guys are here, some of them? Alan lives here, who I created the show with and the writers we worked with last time. Oh yeah. What's it? Hold on. Let me, I thought I prepared. I did a and the writers we worked with last time. Oh, yeah, hold on. I thought I prepared. I did a little bit. Alan Yang.

Alan Yang. Yeah, I got it. Alan, you must be referring to Alan Yang. Yes. But so when you guys created this, wasn't the late Harris Whittles involved as well? He was. He wrote with us until he passed,

and when me and Alan weren't in the room, he was in charge of the writer's room, and he was a big part of it, and yeah, that was... Devastating. Awful experience. And you guys had known each other for a while, Harris and Alan, right? You're all from Parks and Rec, and he opened up for me on the road a few times. He opened up for me when I did a show in Houston and I met some of his family years ago. And so whenever I went back to Houston, I would see some of his friends and stuff. So I had a little connection to him from Houston as well.

And I worked with him on a couple of scripts and movie scripts. And then when Alan and I decided to do this show he was the first person we wanted to get to write with us and that's how it uh and that's how it started and then he how many was he involved with in terms of actually writing the first few or it's hard it's so crazy because i remember exactly the moment of getting that phone call and everything. So I know exactly how long it was and everything. He was there up until about like episode eight or something.

I think. So most of them. For most of them. I remember me and Alan were trying to figure out this one episode and we were walking by ourselves. Like we stepped away from the writer's room and we were kind of walking by ourselves and we were trying by ourselves like we stepped away from um the writer's room and we were kind of walking by ourselves and we were trying to figure out this episode and i got that call and and it was insane and we just kind of we couldn't even process it and we just walked around for a while and oh it was it was uh so but in you know you know in light of uh of that

horrible thing and just you know the legacy of working him, I don't know that a lot of people know how a writing room works or how that creative process in television works because I'm in the middle of it now. And, you know, when you were creating Master of None, how many people, like who were the writers? Because, like, you know, you know a lot of the same guys I do and a lot of people who listen to the show know it because i know well i don't know alan yang but i knew harris i know that uh that uh um werheim eric werheim's involved right yeah he acted in the show and he directed um four episodes no writing he didn't write on the show no so who was in the room like who how many people uh myself yeah alan um my brother anise is he in show business he is yeah yeah he i'm it's interesting he he'd done kind of other jobs in in older younger he's younger brother he's he's uh 25 and i was trying to think of people to hire just i wanted to get someone a little bit younger

and i just thought he would be great because I just know how funny he is in real life. It's interesting. I remember reading this thing with Greg Daniels once. Who created The Office. The Office in the U.S. He would use writing samples that were nontraditional. It wasn't always just like a spec script.

It could just be an article someone wrote that was funny. Just different kinds of things that just showed that someone had um an interesting sense of humor right because in the room that's sort of all that counts i mean ultimately whoever's going to write the script is going to write the script yeah the other stuff the nuts and bolts stuff can easily be taught what can't be taught is like having that unique comedic perspective sure and he was always so funny like he would be on email chains with me and, like, other comedy guys. Like, I have this long, like, bit email chain with him, my brother, and the Lonely Island guys.

And he would just write these emails that made us laugh so hard. And I was like, Anis is really funny. He's a really good writer. And Alan knows him personally, too, and it was a no-brainer. We were like, let's get Anis. That'll be a great idea to have, like, a young writer like him on board. And what's your dynamic with him, though? Was there brotherly shit going on?

No, I think he was very excited to be here and was a little bit shy at first, but he grew as a writer in the room, and he got a lot of stuff on, a lot of great jokes in the show that people quote are lines that he pitched. So there was him, there was this writing duo, these women, Sarah Peters and Zoe Jarman, Joe Mandy, who wrote on Parks. I just saw him.

Oh, yeah. I love Joe. Yeah, I did stand up with him the other night. Very funny. Yeah, he came on as soon as Parks was done. He came on board and helped us out. And Harris was writing with us. And who else?

A couple of people popped in when they could. Andrew Weinberg, he wrote with us a little bit. Jason Wallner wrote a little bit. And Andy Blitz. If I left anyone out, please know in my heart, I really appreciated the work you did on the show. And it was a mistake because I'm very nervous talking to Mark. No, you're not.

I'm not. I'm just kidding. Okay, so the hardest part about doing this stuff is, for me and maybe for you, is breaking stories. It's tedious, isn't it? Yeah, it's kind of tough if you have an idea. For example, like one of the episodes that was really hard was this episode called Indians on TV that we wrote. And we had this idea, we had so many ideas and the script went through so many drafts and it took a while to land on the story that we did and the plot mechanics that we landed on.

And it just takes a while. And a lot of writing on that show was just us, just discussing things in the room. And a lot of times we could be arguing about something. And then Alan and I would be like, this is good. We should just put this argument in the episode. This is,

this is very real and interesting. Well, you know, that, that, that episode in particular is sort of provocative to me because I think a lot of people who watch this, but not necessarily myself. I mean, that story that I have I've heard from a black perspective, you know, on some level, that story of like, you know, why do we have to play slaves? Why do we got to play criminals?

Why was like, but that there's been some progress along those lines in racial casting, but still not a lot. But then to hear from an Indian perspective, because I've heard Maz Jobrani do bits about it, and maybe I don't know if you do actual comedy bits about it, but that story was really interesting to me because you would never see someone do blackface to do a black part, certainly not in the modern world, if ever, but that actually happens. That we're actually

finding one real source. That was a real thing, right? The Fisher-Stevens thing. The Fisher-Stevens thing. What was interesting is after we did that episode, I talked to more and more people about this,

and everyone has their version of it to an extent. We did an episode called Old People, and this actress, Lynn Cohen, played my girlfriend's grandma. Yeah. And she talked to me, and after she read the script, and she was like, this is great. I never get anything like this where it's a fully rounded character.

I usually get these old people roles where I'm getting hurt and hurting my hip, or I'm a rapping granny. And I was like, oh, that's her version of you know convenience store guy or whatever or taxi cab driver like every I think part of it is all the people that do this stuff are younger people so they don't have those stories in their head necessarily to tell and and when they think of old people they just think of them as props for whatever goofy gag or whatever and they don't always consider their lives as having some sort of compelling story they need to pull life things right and but you did that too also with i think that another thing that most of like my generation has gotten away from and my generation

not being that much older than you but like our grandparents or maybe great-grandparents you know especially if you're like a jew like myself that was the first generation immigrant story was the you know the ellis island you know it was all european most of it you know uh that first generation in the 1900s but that's sort of like our connection to that experience and yours is like your parents yeah and that that the the the story of a first generation immigrant who's not european uh and and it's within the last 30 years, you don't see a lot of that. And it was interesting to me in watching that episode about you and what's the other actor's name, the Asian kid?

Calvin. Calvin Yu. Yeah, Calvin Yu. It's a very specific story that you may see in some independent films about that specifically, but not in a mainstream comedy. see in some independent films about that specifically, but not in a mainstream comedy. But it also seems that the two of you, whether how true it is to the characters or not, are insanely detached from the first generation immigrant story of the people that you grew up with.

Yeah. I think part of it is the kids just not thinking about it. And I think another part of it- Taking it for granted. Taking it for granted and just be like yeah i guess it was hard and then also i think a big part of it is the parents are very closed off emotionally and don't share those kind of stories with the kids i really learned a lot about those stories because i did that episode and asked my parents so many questions same with alan

i think alan knew a little bit about his dad's story the story of the brian character's dad in the show is is pretty close to what happened to Alan's father, the story about the chicken and all those things. And with my dad, the stuff is pretty close to what happened to him as well. Your Indian heritage, is it important to you? I think it's obviously it's something that defines who you are, where you're from. But I mean, do you think about it? I think you can't help but have it be a part of who you are in your life and how you interact with people. I don't think it's like every single moment I'm like, I'm Indian, I'm Indian, I'm Indian.

It's not that kind of thing, but I don't think anyone has that. Well, I don't know. I just read Ta-Nehisi Coates' book about the the black experience and it seems to be pretty you know you know that's a crazy book right but but it clearly half of it most of it is about that consciousness that is yeah unavoidable that you know at all times in all situations that's true and there's a self consciousness and censorship that goes around with that but But it's almost like, you know, when he tells that story of being in the movie theater with his kid and that woman kind of pushes his kid, I feel like he's kind of, he kind of forgot for a second and then that happens and he's like, oh shit. I could get in real trouble just because. And it's, that story is an insane story.

It's a great book. story is an insane story and i think it yeah and and i think it's like that for for me it's like oh i'll it will be out of my head and then i'll get some script where it's like oh do an accent it's like oh i forgot like that's what people think yeah indian people and indian actors it was interesting to me in in seeing the character which i imagine is pretty close to you have a certain amount of surprise and distance from your own sort of heritage because you were so identified in the show as well with the generational problems of where you're at just as a guy.

It all seems pretty well integrated that most of the show, you cover the bases around what people's assumptions are you ethnically and then the thing about with your parents but but a lot of it is really just navigating uh culture as you know dude who's in his 30s trying to date and trying to exactly just being a dude but i think by virtue of just being an indian guy and that being my life these things do come up organically for me and for the character.

And I think that's why it works in the show. Well, how did you figure out, like, I want to know what the meeting was where you're sitting in the writer's room. Because, like, the sort of recurring crew, you know, the friend's coffee shop idea of who you're hanging out with. You know, you've got the Asian friend. And then you've got an African-American lesbian friend. and then you've got a big white doofus. The token white friend. But so classically, like, kind of like, bleh. Well, there was no discussion of, oh, let's, it's interesting seeing this big reaction to the diversity in the show, because it wasn't, I didn't expect it to be such a thing, but I think what happened was this. What is the reaction?

I'm not keeping, I'm sorry, I'm not checking every day. Oh, I check everything. Googling all the time. The reaction is, wow, I've never seen, you know, a show where an Indian guy's having sex with someone. I haven't seen an Asian guy who's not, like like this super nerd. Like, you know, there's articles about Kelvin being like this, this heartthrob in the show. And you never see that there's no Asian heartthrobs. There's no, usually Asian men are desexualized. And then they're like, oh, and then

the other friend is an African American lesbian. And this is a good representation of that character. And then there's one white guy and it's usually the reverse. It's usually three white people in one minority or, you know, someone different. But the way it happened on the show was so the Kelvin's character is based on Alan. So that's that. So we were always going to have an Asian guy. Yeah. And it was going to be a proxy for Alan.

Right. And then then we wanted a female friend, and we worked with Allison Jones, who's, you know, casting legend. Yeah, she's great. Just incredible. And she just started introducing us to all these people. And I did chemistry reads with everyone that wanted to read for this part.

Chemistry read meaning just how do you vibe? It's like an audition where I'm there, and we're really improvising a lot, and just kind of really trying to see if there's a chemistry there. And our favorite was Lena, Lena Waithe, who plays Denise. And we were like, this person's incredible. Never seen this person on TV, this kind of energy and who she is. And we just changed the whole character to be her.

And so that's how that character came about. It wasn't like Alan and I sat down like, what if we got an African-American lesbian woman to be my friend? Like there was never that conversation. And then Eric is a friend of mine in real life. And all these characters, and then Noelle, who's my girlfriend at the show, was another person. We auditioned so many women.

I did so many auditions with people and improvised with all these women. And she was a person that had the best chemistry with and seemed like the funniest and most natural performer and so we cast them all based on their talent and i think the it reflects alan and i's reality when we hang out i mean there is an indian guy and an asian guy there you know and we do have black friends and eric is a friend so all these characters are kind of based on the performers. And I think the reason it feels different is because it's just it's authentic to me and my social circles. It's not like, you know, if they made Seinfeld now, I don't think they should cast Seinfeld any different than they did. Like that reflects the reality that's there. Right. And I don't think it's about, oh, we different than they did. That reflects a reality that's there, right? Sure.

I don't think it's about, oh, we'll make one of Jerry's friends Asian now or something. No, I don't think that's the answer. Right, right, right, right. I think what we did works because it's very authentic. I think the answer would be if you're doing a show like Seinfeld now, if you do cast an Asian guy, maybe don't cast him only when you need a guy that's working the laundromat or whatever. Right, you don't want to do quota casting.

Yeah, I think that feels fake. And I guess some people... We've all seen those shows where you're like, I don't think that black guy would hang out with these people. I really think he's being forced into this friend group. In real life, this guy would not hang out with these three other people. And those shows are on. Sure.

You know the shows. Sure. So it's kind of tough to find that middle ground where it feels authentic and doesn't feel like quota casting. And for us, it was very authentic because me and Alan are friends and those are those two guys. And then Lena was just our favorite person that auditioned and we made that character her. And I really am friends with her now. And it all feels real.

And Eric is Eric. Well, I guess a lot of people are going to sort of project whatever they think is like well this is intentional it's trying yeah i really didn't expect it to be this thing but it's cool and i'm glad that people are seeing it being like wow this is a cool depiction of asian americans because it you know we were aware of the asian american stuff a little bit like alan had asked me when we were shooting he said something to me once he was like how many times you seen an as Asian guy kiss someone? And I was like, I mean, not in real life. He meant like on TV and film.

Because in real life, you see it all the time. In real life, you can't avoid it. And I was like, wow, you really don't see it. There really is this whole thing of desexualizing Asian men and Indian men on television and film. And so to see them portrayed the way kelvin portrays a character of brian where he's sexually capable confident good-looking guy it is sadly an anomaly and also like it's there there's an element to it that it is a uniquely american experience that you're sort of capturing and i think that you know some people, you know, they'd rather generalize that ethnically than just see everybody as like, well, they're just, you know, people, American people who are living their lives.

Someone wrote me on Twitter. They were like, it's cool to see a group of friends on TV that look like my group of friends. Right. And I do think you see sometimes on like network shows, you see these four people. You're like, all right. I mean, these are really attractive white people that are hanging out together. I guess that's a thing. It's homogenized.

Yeah. And I think what's strange is I think so much of TV and film is the kind of proxy for the everyman is a super good looking white guy. And the truth is not many people relate to that guy. Right. Not anymore. He's not everybody. Yeah to that guy. Right. Not anymore. He's, he's not everybody. Yeah.

I guess probably never. I mean, it was always a fantasy in the first place. You know, the whole idea of movies and movie stars. Yeah. I guess it kind of started out with this thing of, oh,

like let's live vicariously through. Right. The myth. This, whoever this guy is. Yeah. And then now it's kind of like people are like, all right.

What's interesting to me, what I've learned doing from the show is there's so many stories to tell that we haven't told at all. Ever. Because they're just amazing stories about people that have just been so, just never been in the forefront of the stories we tell. And we're just slowly scratching the surface as more and more creators are coming from different backgrounds and ethnicities. Right. And to me, that's very exciting. This idea of just like more interesting stories out in the world. Because the cultural landscape is dramatically changing. And that, you know, to even get a sense of what, you know, the population looks like

becomes tricky in terms of like what, you know, how many people really relate to this. But the weird thing is, is that there's no denying that it's changing and it's more inclusive and it's for the better. But still, it seems that some mediums are just slow to get to it. Yeah. And you seem to be sort of on the forefront of some of that. It takes time to be able to do this stuff well, too. I think Alan and I, you know, we had a lot of experience through Parks and Rec and other things we've done. So we were able to do this in a good way and make it feel right.

And I think if we'd done this show when we were younger, it wouldn't have been any good. I think it would have probably been a fine show, but it wouldn't have been what it is now. And I think over time, as more and more people like me and Alan go through our careers and gain experience to make shows like Master of None or whatever. Hopefully we'll get more and more of these kind of shows and stories and films and whatever. I just think it's impressive that you have friends. You know, like I'm not a guy like I have friends, but I don't spend time with a lot of people. So like somehow or another, I guess there are some people that, you know, go out in the world and they hang out with friends.

I guess I never really led a normal life like that because I was a comic and I spent most of my life in fucking comedy clubs. And I was not working with other people or writing with other people. I had a few guys that I'd see and be like, hey, hey, we're friends because we're comics. But I don't generally spend time with a lot of people. So maybe that's why I feel excluded from everything. Like when I'm watching anything and I'm like, people don't hang out and talk. What the fuck? But that's my uh that's why i feel excluded from everything like when i'm watching anything and i'm like people don't hang out and talk what the fuck but that's my own problem but that that was a thing in the show where we we made it so every episode it's not the same four people show up all the time yeah we made it so oh whatever the story is whatever that episode's about let's

bring in the other people as we need them yeah because we were writing we're like that character wouldn't be here right now but also it seems like like, you know, as a person, like, you know, in terms of being able to do the show and having the experience that, you know, you seem to be consciously and with effort evolving as a human being around women, around, you know, relationships. around women, around relationships. You're sort of aware. My girlfriend was very happy about the episode that dealt with women's safety and that self-awareness of that stuff.

And even those stories aren't really told comedically that often. It's hard to do. It's hard to do it and not come off preachy and to make it feel real and you don't want it to seem like you're trying to like pat yourself on the back or anything like that but um as far as like evolving as a performer the analogy i always used is i've always liked bands that put out albums that show a growth and change but kind of maintain an essence be it

something like the beastie boys or radiohead or whatever yeah and i i think that's that's the goal is to keep evolving as an artist and and and getting better and doing different things but it's interesting it was it was it seems to me like i don't know how aware of it you are or what your consciousness is around it but like i think early on in your career you're a sort of observational comedian you know who did you know sort of skewed stuff with a certain rhythm and you're a sort of observational comedian, you know, who did, you know, sort of skewed stuff with a certain rhythm. And, you know, a lot of it was focused on, you know, having a kind of point of view around reality that was new. And then like, as you became more a person with success, and I guess some money and some,

you know, awareness of yourself out in the world and with women and stuff that you really started to sort of delve into relationship material, which is hard to do in a new way. Yeah, I think an advantage I had was I'm a little bit, I'm younger than people realize sometimes, I think. How old are you? I'm 32 now. But when I was doing that stuff, I was in my late 20s.

And there were things that people weren't talking about because a lot of the comedians that were at the level I was doing theaters and things like that were older. So they were either married or divorced or whatever. Already jaded. They were already past that stage where they were young and kind of out. No hope. Dealing with that stuff. So it gave me an interesting opportunity to kind of talk about this stuff in a new way as a comedian that was living at that level and and and but you didn't there was

never a point in time where like you know you were talking about your own experience through jokes about relationships where you were sort of like you know i wonder if this has been covered before well i think with anything it's really about your take on right and whatever you're talking about and you can kind of tell if you can you can kind of go out to the clubs and hear yeah what people are doing and hear kind of the common yeah yeah and you know if yours is different enough to where it's worth doing if i think so and also that's how i felt with all the stuff i did i felt like i did it in a way where it differentiated itself from the more obvious. Right. Because generationally, primarily because of technology and a strange lack of real engagement with people that the obstacles are different.

You know what I mean? There was no texting when I was dating. I mean, I've dealt with that in my adult life, but I'm still an old man going like, this is exciting you just but but for your generation which is you know you're 20 years younger than me you know it's it's it's just normal it's it's how you engage you almost hardly you like there's a chance that you will never have seen or even talk to the person before in real life before you meet them it's crazy how these very once universal

human experiences kind of die away for example just the idea of a guy nervously calling a woman on the phone right that's gone i mean that there's a certain generation that has no idea or even a message even yeah now the version is like what do i send in this first text like that's not that scary that's much less scary than like hearing that ring and hearing someone go hello yeah you missed out i mean that's a crazy moment i mean i had to tail into that yeah you missed out of a nervous first call yeah but that used to be that's something that everyone could relate to it to a certain age and now it's gone yeah i don't know where all the time goes you know like because you never feel like you have time and all this stuff was supposed to make life more convenient for us but it actually makes it more insane

well there's a good and a bad you know sure for you know i think there's some people like oh i can text and now i don't have to be as nervous and also i can it doesn't feel as forward and now we kind of build a rapport on text and things are better for me in that way is that is that thing in that one episode where you know the woman just goes on dates to get free food is that a real thing that's a real thing someone told us one of the one of the writers mentioned that there was some girl that worked in their office that would just go on ok cupid dates to have good food just have just use the guys for free food yeah i think that's a thing some people do in cities like New York. They'll just go on these OkCupid dates and just use people for food.

And so what happens now? You got the book out and this is, you know, the show's going. Do you know if you're going to do more? Are you going to do more? They haven't officially said, but I... Why not, right? I think they'd probably want to do more. If we did do more, if we did a season two,

I would just want to take some time to have some stuff happen to me and make sure that what we did was as good as what we did. Is there anything I can do to help? You want me to lock you in the garage for two days? Hey, that'd be an episode. That'd be a strange one, but sure.

And what about stand-up? Are you in it? Are you taking a break? Are you writing new shit? What are you doing? Stand-up, I wrote about, I had like about 40 minutes that I did for the oddball tour over the summer right um and i might go back into the clubs and try to just finish an hour and do a tour but i kind of want to write some more scripts and

stuff before i do a tour because sometimes i feel like i just go to stand up and i let it's easy it's what we do writing go down and like write what script writing like a movie like a movie or more episodes of the show or whatever i don't know know. But is that sort of where the momentum in your mind, is that sort of the next plateau is to sort of follow the, you know, to break the mold of sort of what you talked about in that episode and actually have a nice big movie that stars Indian leading men. Well, I think I did that with Master of None. Even though it's not a movie, I was thinking about that,

whether I'd want to do a movie, and I realized, well, Master of None, I get to do whatever I want. Yeah, I get that. Very open to every idea we want to do. Me and Alan have so much control on the show. Creative freedom. Yeah, and I don't know what I would get out of doing a movie. have so much control on the show. Creative freedom. Yeah, and I don't know what I would get out of doing a movie. And so many people watch the show. I mean,

so many people got to see the show. No, I know. Movies are a chore, man. Movies are tough. You got to get out there and then you see the weekend box office numbers. It's a different thing. Just to get it made. It's like, you know, you think like, oh, well, anyone can make one and we got the technology, but it's not easy, man. It seems like a struggle.

And I feel like I have such a great situation with Netflix and the show. Obviously, there's part of me that wants to do that and there are limited, I can't tell every story I want to tell through the show. Like if I wanted to do something where I played a totally different character, that might be weird to do in the show. I mean, granted, we play around with a lot of stuff, but I think it might be hard. You could do like if you wanted to, though you really wanted to play with with length and and stretching out a narrative you know in the next season you could do an hour first episode like sure yeah i mean i i think netflix is very creatively supportive of anything we want to do but um yeah there is something cool about

movies yeah and and just doing a cool movie and making I made like one really good movie, I'd be so thrilled. If I had like one really good one that I directed and wrote and acted in, I'd be thrilled. That would be awesome. How many did you direct, the Masters and None? Masters and None, I did two of them. I did the Parents episode and the Nashville episode. And those were your real parents? Those were my real parents, yeah.

Yes. So you had your brother and your parents. Very crazy, you know, to have such know to have is that your only brother and as my little only only sibling my little brother uh yeah it's very very surreal i was thinking about it when we went to the we had a premiere for the show in new york and my whole family was there i was like wow this is like probably the biggest thing i've done in my career probably the most well-received thing i've done in my career and my parents are in it and my brother helped me write it pretty pretty cool to have my whole immediate family be such a big part of it not even a little

part a big part it wasn't like my parents are like a little cameo yeah they're they're in a few episodes my brother helped write on every episode you know even though all the episodes most of them say written by Aziz and Alan you know they were written in a room and everyone pitched ideas and jokes that's the way it works so That's how those writer's rooms work. And to have my whole family be a part of something that ended up being such a big thing in my career, it's really special. Are they excited?

Yeah, I think they're thrilled. You know, I think, you know, my dad's getting all these emails from people that have seen the show, like distant relatives, random Indian people that just live in North Carolina. They got new friends now. You're close by.

Where do you guys go to eat? Well, thanks, Aziz. I think, where are you headed now? I don't know. I think, you know, I'm just running around. I might have a little bit of a breather. I might just go home for a little bit. All right, buddy.

Good talking to you. Thanks for having me, Mark. Aziz. It is a good show. Some good shit in it. It is kind of, it's kind of, it's sort of interesting. The idea of, you know, what makes, you know, what makes somebody an artist? You know, what makes somebody, it's like, I was talking before and even talking to Aziz.

It's like the work that goes in that once you sort of refine what you are and what you do and, and the craft of what you do, then, you know, the job and the work of, of bringing that to whatever you're going to bring that to is really the fucking that's that's where that's where you know the the what is it the tire meets the pavement the wood meets the saw the fist meets the face what is it that's where it happens man and uh you know as i it's very hard you know being a self-employed person to know when you're not when does work stop never stops it's fucking nine at night and i'm recording this right now. And I wrote all day. And this morning I did an interview. It's crazy.

And the only thing that's making me sane is I learned how to make this bread that I've always been curious about. That's how I take a break. I'm going to engage in the artistry of baking. It's not even a real bread it's more of this dense brick it's uh there's a place in new york called angelica it's a vegan place but they make this sort of brick like rice bread that i always thought was some sort of mystery but it's weird with food you just go online and you look up something and it's like i wonder if i can make that you're like holy shit i can make this so now i have an entire brick of this rice bread it's literally a dense

brick-like substance and uh i have no family i have no uh no people you know sarah i give sarah half of it but i'm still left with half a massive brick of rice bread and you know what i do with that shove it in my face so uh whatever health elements might have been uh at the core of it the idea of it are lost because i've just consumed uh the equivalent of 90 bowls of rice and five bowls of oatmeal sounds good a lot of carbs i'm about to fall asleep all right now i know a lot of you're gonna be like are you gonna have uh robert and flea back separately to not just you know to talk separately but i think you'll be surprised at how much we were able to cover and also the interaction between these two guys who you know have been around la for a long time

talking about bass talking about bands it was a real fucking thrill to have flea in here and to have robert trujillo in here and also to uh to be part of uh of uh of people seeing this movie uh jaco the film uh is uh is pretty amazing and it's a documentary of a real a real american genius and as i said before there's a premiere and a concert this sunday november 22nd at the ace in Los Angeles. And you can get tickets for that and info on screenings. You can preorder the Blu-ray and DVD at jacothefilm.com. So now let's talk to Robert Trujillo and Flea.

Sonny had a Harry Potter party and I dressed up like Dumbledore. Oh, yeah. And my friend in my guest house dressed up like Voldemort, and we had owls, all this stuff. We had a bottle with the wands. I was up all night. Was that your kid? Yeah, yeah. I had seven little girls sleep over my house last night.

Oh, my God. It was mayhem, pandemonium. No sleep? Fucking insanity. No sleep. No sleepy sleeps. But it must have been probably more fun than a night of blow i mean anything's more fun than a night of blow well look i i want to talk to both you guys

because did you did you guys know each other when you were kids um we met like we were like young adults young adults like when did you meet because you both grew up in the area right it's hard to remember because it was a while ago but i remember you in this very colorful mercedes-benz with multi-colored yeah it looked like a like a jigsaw puzzle yeah and i just got off tour with suicidal tendencies and we're driving from i'm driving from the airport with whoever i was with and i look to my right and i see flea and he was with some rasta guy some dude with dreadlocks. And he's no shirt. He's picking his nose, you know, like picking a winner.

And that was a classic moment. I didn't even want to say hi to him. We met before that, though. No, we met before. We met at the Roxy. I remember. I know, with Stephen Perkins. Yeah, with Stephen.

Actually, Infectious Grooves had played a show at the Palace in Hollywood. Yeah, I remember that. And you were there. Yep. And that was when I first started jamming with Steven. And I mean, everybody was there. It was kind of a crazy scene. Who was the Rasta guy? Was it Clinton?

Was it George Clinton? Yeah, he was the Rasta guy back in the day. It might have been D.H. Pelligro. Yeah. Oh, D.H. I know D.H. Yeah, it might have been Dirty D. Yeah, I see him around at the things.

Yeah, me too. So, well, now, so you guys didn't ever play on the same bill when you were kids, because you were both, like, kicking around. When did you start playing bass? I knew about Robert. From Suicidal Tendency. From Suicidal, and before that, I just knew Robert was a bass player around. To be reckoned with?

Just a dude that played bass that could rock, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, you grew up But you lived in Venice, right? Right. They used to call me the Mexi-casualty. Why? It's like Mexi-casualty. I don't know.

It was just... And then Zach Wild used to call me the Whiskey Warlord because of this phase I went through with Crown and Ginger. Oh, yeah? And Crown Royal, yeah. You know, you get these nicknames sure man yeah so who were the bands you guys like when you were coming up like early on when you were living in venice and where were you living in holly up here yeah well i was born in

australia i left australia when i was four i moved to new york i left new york when i was 11 in 1972 and moved to hollywood 72 so that's when the hollywood started yeah yeah and you're what your dad was a musician? My stepdad was a jazz musician, so I was brought up around jazz. And that was the first thing that you sort of gravitated towards? Yeah, I wanted to be a jazz trumpet player when I was a kid. And that was my first thing.

And then in high school, the bass just came up in rock bands, and I stood a much better chance of getting laid. Oh, yeah? So it was about pussy? It was all about pussy. For you too? For me, yeah? So it was about pussy? It was all about pussy. For you, too? For me, pussy? Yeah.

Well, yeah, I guess at some point it was. You know, I think that's something that... I talk to a lot of performers where it's like, that was it. How are you going to do it?

You know, you think about it, you think about back in the day, and it's all about all of that. I mean, some of my fondest memories playing music, even up to today, were playing backyard parties in Venice, you know? Yeah.

And we played everything from Van Halen to Jimi Hendrix to Ozzy, who I eventually started to work with over the years, which was kind of surreal. But we even played like la via strangiato by rush and yeah exactly yeah you know we were always trying to go for the challenge yeah we did in yyz i don't know how good we played it but we tried and but before that growing up i actually uh my parents were into a lot of different styles of music so i had a lot of motown and james brown in my life

and uh and uh as well as my you know like sabikas because my dad was a flamenco guitar player he was so that's how yeah i mean by hobby but that's why i remember seeing that fingering style and that's kind of how I started playing. I didn't play with a pick initially. It was all sort of finger. Is that where you got that chord thing going? Probably. Yeah, yeah.

When you're young, super young, I mean, I was a baby. And that's the first instrument I saw being played was a nylon string. Flamenco guitar? Flamenco, yeah. And then over the years, I started to discover other styles of music, but funk, like funk music, like the Ohio Players.

The first concert I ever went to was the Isley Brothers in like 1975 or something. Oh, really? Ohio Players, that was fire. Right. And Roller Coaster. Yeah, Roller Coaster. How rolling that goes, though.

But the Isley Brothers were like bringing riffs. They were bringing like the metal to the funk. So, you know, that's when I discovered bass. And here I am. Patti Smith told me that she was at her high school prom in Chicago. Two bands were playing at a high school prom, like one in a real popular room, and she went in there, and all the kids were in there. Yeah.

And it was, I don't know, some lame top 40 band, and she went to the other room, and no one was in there, and the Isley Brothers were in there playing with Hendrix on guitar. What? Fucking Jimi Hendrix on guitar at her high school prom with the Isley Brothers. That's right. He was with them for like a couple years, yeah you know a little phase before he before he met uh what's his name from the animals eric burden so like when you were starting out just you were playing jazz when you were a kid yeah i wanted you know i was like getting ready to play jazz i was playing trumpet and i was very into it and romancing it and just into b-bop and the whole life b-bop the whole you know

charlie parker dizzy gillespie i met dizzy gillespie when i was a kid i was around jazz all the time art pepper yeah art pepper was he around did your dad know those guys no no but but he knew he played with dizzy a little bit he played with philly joe jones he played with some guys but he never really made it happen his people skills weren weren't so good. You know, and heroin is never good for stuff. So he was one of those guys that got the heroin, but not so much the... No, he's a great player. I don't mean to marginalize... Is he still around?

No, unfortunately, he died a few years ago. But he got strung out? Yeah, yeah, he got real strung out. And he got straight. You know, he got on the program and got straight and stuff. But I grew up loving jazz. But just talking about, like, Robert and I coming up as bass players in LA, I was thinking when I was driving up here,

I was thinking like one of the great feel-good stories in the history of rock is when Robert Trujillo joins Metallica. Yeah. Like we all saw the movie and we saw that moment. And I remember seeing that and it was like so heartwarming and beautiful, you know. And you join Metallica and it was like so heartwarming and beautiful, you know, and you join Metallica and it's like so great. Yeah. But for me and for other people that I know who like came up in the club scene in LA playing,

it was like a victory for all of us. It was like, you know, for all the LA homies, it was like Robert Trujillo is in fucking Metallica. And this is cool. Like it was just like, not only was it a match made in heaven, but it was just awesome. Yeah, yeah, thank you. Like, it was just such a great, beautiful thing.

Was that a big day for you? It was a very surreal day for me. Yeah. And it was, but when you get a gig like that, you know, it's so strange, really. Strange strange is the word because i remember going up there i was late i was always late back then for the audition this would have been in 2003

i'll tell you a quick story about the audition right let's go to the audition basically it was a two-day audition the first day of the audition um i was kind of just there to be a fly on the wall right um bob Rock's there. The bass had already been recorded. Bob Rock recorded the bass. So I'm just hanging around. And Lars and James and Kirk kind of live in this bubble. Yeah.

You know, it's like, and, you know, they were just like, yeah, you know, make yourself at home. You know, just hang out. Yeah. Just kind of hanging out in this big complex. Is up in the Bay Area? Yeah. Up, you know, up north. And I'm kind of lost because no in this big complex. Is up in the Bay Area? Yeah, up north. And I'm kind of lost because no one's really completely communicating with me, and I'm just there. Yeah.

And okay, so I'm in, you know, come on in the control room, and I'm just there. They're cutting tracks, and that's it, hanging around. 11 o'clock rolls around at night, and Lars, we're in the parking lot where the last one's leaving, and Lars says, hey, man, let's go get a drink. Let's go get a nightcap. So I'm like, all right. And we go to the first bar, have a couple cocktails. We go to the second bar, have a few more, go to the third bar. Then we end up at his house for more cocktails.

By this time, it's 5 in the morning. I can't even drive to wherever I'm staying. It's impossible and he even says here's crash out my guest room right so at nine in the morning four hours later he's on the treadmill this guy and he it's like he doesn't know me anymore you know he's already sobered up and he's on a treadmill yeah and i've got this i've got this crazy headache yeah and then he's like all right let's go let's go to the studio and I'm driving behind him you know it couldn't even keep my eyes open yeah I get to the studio and this is when they were going through this sort of therapy

yeah yeah yeah this guy called Phil toll right who was a that's in the movie yeah yeah he was what do they call it like kind of a life coach kind of a yeah motivator which was at the time I I guess, good for the band, but I wasn't used to that. I was just, and here I am with a pounding headache. James has just gone through this whole thing where, of course, he's sober. The last person he wants to see anywhere near his band

is a drunk Mexican. So what happened? Me, that would be me. Hexacasualty. Hexacasualty was in full effect. So I'm sitting at the table and i'm like got the worst headache completely hung over and and i'm thinking lars did this to me because he was you know checking me out to see if i could hang with the test it was the test i it had to have been yeah he's a viking really yeah yeah and um so i came up with

the eye because i go into the bathroom i was throwing water on my face, slapping it, going, oh, man, you got to hang in there, hang in there. Because I really wanted to say, I can't do this right now, guys. I don't feel good. Yeah. I really can't do this. I stuck it out. I knew the tech, the bass tech from back when suicidal tendencies was touring with metallica which would have been in 1993 on the black album so he knew those guys knew you they knew me from back then

right yeah and here we are 10 years later and so zach harman who is now still my bass tech i you know i didn't i didn't have a base so oh well let's go grab a bass. Let's choose the amp setup. So, I kind of use that as my way to get out of this hangover situation. And when I watch Some Kind of Monster, I see myself wearing this brown Armani t-shirt, which I would never own in my life. You know why? Because it's not mine. It's Lars's. Yeah. You know?

His wife at the time, Sky skyler gave me that shirt because the one i'd been wearing which was probably pretty funky yeah was not it was not happening so anyway that's a you know i'm sure he was sizing me up and how'd you how'd you perform we played battery and i i think it helped me not be nervous yeah and that's what you see in the film and everybody seems to think it was pretty slamming. Yeah. But other than that, I was brain dead. I couldn't, if I could play, I was fine.

But in communicating with Hetfield, because he would come over to me and ask me questions, and I would come up with really stupid answers because literally I was not all there. Yeah, you were fucked up. I was, man. So Flea, in a relative way, you were pretty young when he

met anthony right yeah we're 15 so what where was the moment where you were you guys where you knew you had a fucking band well we were inseparable from when we were 15 literally i mean we did everything together bad stuff we were bad kids yeah we were robbing houses oh yeah hustling drugs and stealing and just bad. Not playing music? I was playing music. He had no interest in playing music. Right.

Yeah, I was playing in bands and I started playing in a rock. I was getting ready. I know I was a couple of years away from playing in a rock band, but I was playing trumpet and I was dead set on being a musician. And then I joined a band with some high school buddies and we were all friends and Anthony wanted to be an actor, but he would introduce us. Yeah. He had this whole like spiel, this real Anthony wanted to be an actor, but he would introduce us. Yeah. He had this whole spiel,

this real slick spiel. You know, their fathers call him crazy, the girls call him all the time, but I call him like I see him, and I call him Anthem! And we'd come out and start rocking our jams. What kind of music was that? Kind of like Prague, La Via Strangiata kind of rock,

you know? Nice. Yeah. You know, we had our moments. Yeah. And then Anthony went to go see Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five in 1982. Yeah. And just, or no, yeah, 82, end of 82, and freaked out.

Like, we knew hip hop a little bit, but we didn't really know. Right. They had their first hit, The Message Out. Yeah. Saw Grandmaster Flash, and he was like, I want to rap. Because he didn't ever consider that he could sing. Right. But I want to rap. And I was like consider that he could sing but I want to rap

and I was like well you know I live for the funk I mean I play funk all day long and so I just like cooked up some funk grooves and he started rapping on them

and literally we never had a rehearsal our first gig we just kind of talked about it in my living room with Jack Irons and Hello Slovak

and I was like you go you know and we just went out and did it and next time like you go you know and we just went out and did it and next time we played like you know

two weeks later it was lines around the block and it just never stopped I remember seeing them at the music machine in I guess it would be like sort of

Santa Monica West LA over on Pico and it was a great show small club and I remember Anthony he was he had a flu or something but he was still kicking ass and it was a great show, small club. And I remember Anthony, he had a flu or something,

but he was still kicking ass, and he was throwing loogies everywhere, spitting them out. They were green and ugly, but anyway, they sounded great. And that's because back then with Suicidal Tendencies, Rocky, Rocky George, who got me in the band, that's who I went to high school with, he was talking about this amazing bass player called flea yeah and um i always liked bass players with one name yeah like jocko yeah soccer players you know

yeah exactly you know it's sort of this unique breed of characters but for you guys but you for like bass players you guys are like up front you know full-on performers like you know like historically the bass player is just a dude hanging out in the back right at some point you guys you know well you took the front seat i think robert and i are kind of from that generation of bass players that first kind of started i mean not for the fusion guys or the jazz guys where they were already like you know virtuosos yeah but in terms of in like the rock world the youth culture rock, rock music for sure. Watt too? Oh, Watt for sure. I had him in here.

He's got his own language. He's got everything. He's got it all. He's a spiritual master. He is, right? Oh, yeah. So he was a little before you? I remember Perkins telling me he was showing up on tour when he was playing in Point of Fire.

He showed up on tour with his bass, no suitcase, toothbrush in his flannel pocket, and that was it. A shirt, a pair of pants, a bass, a toothbrush. I'm ready to go. And that's it. For like a six-month tour. Straight from San Pedro, man.

Were you guys contemporaries, or was he a little before? Contemporaries, but another quick Watt. So I was on a tour with Watt once, and he had diarrhea really bad. Was that with the sickness he had, with that thing? He had some diarrhea. I don't know what he got diarrhea really bad. Was that with the sickness he had with that thing? He had some diarrhea. I don't know what he got diarrhea. He got sick. Yeah.

And he went out on stage and just tied his pants shut at the bottom. I think he told me about that. Tied them shut. Just went out there and rocked. Oh, man. Filled those babies up like some MC Hammer pants. That's nice. When was a trick for you flea where where you

know you you sort of defined your style was it that moment when you when katis wanted to to rap and you you just got on board with that funk thing or yeah kind of and before that like i you know i joined this band called fear yeah and they were a real with uh what's his what's his leaving yeah spit sticks and phylo cream were you in the original crew? No. No, they kicked their bass player out for a drug problem. And so I joined, and it was so intense and hard, and I really started getting into punk rock,

which was a new thing for me. Like who? Which guys? You know, all the L.A. bands. I like Germs, Fear, X, the Weirdos, the Screamers, the Bags. I liked the L.A. bands. And then it expanded. Right. But I liked that. It was like they were the contemporaries, the guysreamers, the Bags. I liked the LA bands. Yeah. And then it expanded.

Right. But I liked that. It was like they were the contemporaries, the guys on the scene that I looked up to. And I just started really feeling that intensity, the intensity, the immediacy. There was something about it that struck a chord in me in a really intense way.

And because I grew up loving funk, and that was just really my thing, was funk, I started applying that to funk. And I started, like, playing funk really aggressively. Yeah, yeah. And, like, you know, when I started, when I'd see bass players play, there was this guy in my high school,

like, I would see the black guys play bass, and they all slapped. Yeah. And so I was like, whoa, that's where it's at. And so I started learning to slap. Yeah. And so I was doing that. And then punk rock came.

And then it was just, you know, I was just like, I just started being really, like, violent and aggressive about it. With the slapping. Yeah, and found it, you know, and found my own style. And that was, you know, like, 81, 82. So was that, so, and that was before you recorded anything, really? Yeah, yeah.

And now with the Suicidal Tendencies, that was straight up, like, hard, like, punk rock and roll. Well, when I first, back in uh i guess it would have been 83 yeah um 84 i went to a jazz school called dick groves school of music yeah studio city and i was there for a year um hanging with all these jazz cats that were some of them were a little older than me it was funny because we would go to MI as a tribe, and our best guitar players would duel against their best guitar players, but they had all these kind of hip, you know, younger teachers, and our guys were a little older.

Our guys were kind of like my main teacher at the time was a guy called Max Bennett, who was actually the bass player with Joni Mitchell. He played on some of those albums that Jocko played on. Oh, really? And he was an awesome bass player, but he was kind of wild and crazy. He played in a band called the LA Express, and he had a bass strap that was leather, and it had all these couples in sexual positions,

like 69 position and all that kind of stuff. With the horoscope? All that stuff, man. The full sexual guitar stuff. So he was kind of wild like that. horoscope or just? All that stuff, man. Right. The full sexual guitar stuff. So he was kind of wild like that. And then he lasted about half the year and the guy that took over for him was a guy called Joel DeBartolo

who was the bass player for Johnny Carson's show, Doc Severinsen Band. Sure, yeah. He was a wonderful teacher. So I went to jazz school and then the minute I got out, it's like I never played jazz again. And a couple years after that, I ended up joining Suicidal Tendencies so I was

playing really high like my bass was all up by my chin like level 42. Like not cool? It was not cool I didn't know that at the time and then when I played my first show in Germany with Suicidal Tendencies opening for Anthrax it was like this mosh pit that I'd never experienced I mean I loved Suicidal Tendencies opening for Anthrax it was like this mosh pit that I'd never I mean I loved Suicidal I used to wear the cap and dig the music but to be on stage and play that music in Europe especially Germany yeah was so intense that um I mean I was laughing because I was so happy and um gradually obviously the bass came down lower, lower, and lower, and lower. But that was sort of my initiation. And then, of course, I discovered bands like Slayer and, of course, Metallica.

But the slapping thing, for me, I was always doing that. And just like Flea said, I applied it to my style, which was, again, aggressive. Like thinking more percussive, you know, just being progressive and bringing, I always thought of it as a punching bag. Right. Like the heavy bag. So it was a different timing too, right? Because like, you know, Flea's like pop and funk and you're just, you know, integrating

it into like pounding rock. Yeah. Well, into the, you know, to whatever thrash or whatever you want to call it. But again, I think Flea and I are pretty experimental in what we like to do, and we like so many different styles of music. There's really no rules. But again, with that style of bass, I always wanted to treat it like you're in the Amazon you're you're in the the the amazon jungle and

you just you know yeah yeah yeah well what's the relationship with like because the rhythm section is like you got to hold the whole shit together i mean it's really on you right and the drum yeah i mean it's you know i i'm sure i robert agrees with me that playing with a great drummer that really has pocket and groove and you can just like live inside that beat and get inside kick drum and stuff it's just a really uplifting feeling because it's just you two in a way right yeah yeah no well it's everybody but when you can really get like intimate with a drummer playing like that it's such a great awesome feeling and i've been so fortunate to play with a number of incredible drummers in my life and it's just always That's what's wild about you

you've been in a lot of bands and you've been brought into a lot of bands and you've had to hold one band together for like decades Yeah, yeah, yeah We're in our 34th year I think It's crazy man! It's cool to thunk Right? Do you know how many drummers and guitar players you've gone through?

Guitar players I think I think seven Really know how many drummers and guitar players you've gone through um guitar players? I think I think Seven really yeah and drummers not that we've had the same drummer since 88 or just like three before right right for drummers I think and the guy the guy now he's like the solid guy He's yeah, and you've had John for Shantae twice twice. Yeah, and now we have Josh Klinghoffer Yeah, and what is it's weird because that one dude who played on um solid and you've had john frusciante twice twice yeah and now we have josh klinghoffer yeah and what is it's weird because that one dude who played on um up with mofo uh hello slovak right so he yeah he passed away he passed away yeah because i that was the first chili peppers album i heard and i was like you know this guy is like he's like doing something like hendrixy he

definitely yeah well he was he well we we all loved Hendrix growing up. That was for us, like in my group of guys, that was our God, you know? You too? Oh yeah, yeah. But when we really got into the Gang of Four, when they came out,

and like Echo and the Bunnymen and that English post-punk sound. Yeah. And so, Halal really like started getting really into Andy Gill and Will Sargent from Echo and the Bunnymen. And so getting into that kind of aesthetic, like angular, weird effects, colors,

like synth kind of sounds and shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so he had a unique sound. It was cool. And when he started playing with, making the shift from Suicidal Tendencies to playing with somebody like Ozzy, how do you integrate? You know the songs already. Rightzy, how do you integrate?

You know the songs already. Right. But how do you find, are there moments within songs like when you're playing with Ozzy where he's like, he gives you some freedom and you can kind of find your own space with him?

Yeah, there was actually, Ozzy would like to take a long break in the middle of the show and it was during a song called Suicide Solution. So at the time i i had the good fortune of playing with not only zach wilde right for a few years but also a guitar wonderful guitar player by the name of joe holmes and with joe we had created this solo section in the middle of a suicide solution where the bass actually went into kind of a low range percussive groove and he would just rip

you know Hendrix style yeah solo over it and then we that carried on to uh touring with Zach as well but it was a dream for me because you know growing up playing in backyard party bands and we're playing you know like uh songs like of course Crazy Crazy Train, and even obscure songs like S-A-T-O and Believer. Believer was always one of my favorite songs, Over the Mountain. And then to join Ozzy's band and be on stage playing Sweet Leaf or Iron Man, that's where the crab walk kind of came to be

because I was testing him. He got in front of me, got in my face, and I started doing this sumo wrestler kind of move. And he did it with me. So we're feeding off each other. That would have been the second show. And I remember it was Las Vegas and it was super tight and great. So it was just a surreal moment for me to be playing with my hero. That's one of the things I think that Flea can also sort of vouch for as we've grown as musicians you know you're meeting your heroes like recently there was a show at the hollywood bowl celebrating jaco pastorius and i got to meet herbie hancock for the first time and i had met

wayne shorter when we interviewed him but yeah you know just seeing those guys interact and in in meeting peter erskine well actually being able to play with peter a little bit it just you Just seeing those guys interact and meeting Peter Erskine. Well, actually being able to play with Peter a little bit. Just Booker T and all these guys. He's a great guy. It was really a moment for me. And then meeting even people like Jimmy Page. You never met him before?

I had met him in recent years with Metallica. And then Lemmy's become a really good friend of mine in fact last night i uh presented a lifetime achievement award to him for bass player magazine and how's he doing he he he's he's doing okay he's going on tour tomorrow today actually and that worries me because i think he should be resting but lemmy doesn't want to rest man he wants to play rock and roll i had him in here he's pretty pretty wiped out yeah he's got the cane he's a soldier yeah he sure is a soldier i'll tell you an interesting thing that happened a few months well it would have been about a year ago i had played a special show celebrating keith moon and john antwessel at the house of blues and i invited

joni mitchell i didn't think she was going to show up but lemmy was there because he was receiving yet another award and um he and i are talking he's to the left of me and he's smoking like like a chimney yeah and all of a sudden i see joni walk in i'm like oh my you know oh my god joni and lemmy yeah exactly she sits to the right of me and i got lemmy to the left of me they're both chain smoking and i'm like this is the most beautiful smoke i've ever inhaled in my life lemmy smoke and joni mitchell smoke and and she looks over lemmy doesn't really say anything and she looks over and he looks over and i say oh okay well um lemmy this is my good friend joni mitchell joni this is this Joni, this is Lemmy. And she looks over at him, big old drag of the cigarette and goes, hello, Lemmy, like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

She didn't know Lemmy was. Yeah, and then Lemmy looks over at her. He takes a big drag of the cigarette. He says, Joni, what fucking chords were you playing on Court and Spark? I could never figure that out. Or with his voice joni what four chords were you playing and she starts to tell him she goes well lenny you know i do open core tuning you know and that's how i write my songs and they had this conversation i was just

sitting in the middle of this like happier than a pig and shit it's like two originals that are still true to their music yeah my heart's right always so that's well that's it like that's a good way to start in talking about the movie jocko the documentary which i saw i think i'm pretty close to this cut right that that screening i'm pretty close to it there's been uh obviously all the technical stuff has been completely you know dial dialed in and meaning sound design. And there's some other edits that we had done. When you saw it, there was no intro credits or closing credits. And it's been a long haul.

I mean, we're going six years into this. And in fact, Flea's a trooper because we had to interview him twice. We interviewed him the first year, and the sound wasn't good because the team that I had at the time didn't have their shit together. So we had bad sound, and he was wearing a Lakers T-shirt, which is beautiful to celebrate the Lakers, but it's not good when you're trying to finance something like this. And so we had to come back a year later, and he was like, no problem.

I mean, three hours on the first one, and then another three hours, and he was there for me. Well, that's out of friendship for you, and I imagine respect for Jocko. Absolutely. Well, Jocko's one of these guys. What I want to ask you in terms of your heroes, like Bootsy Collins, I imagine, for you had a big impact, did he? For sure.

And for you, when you talk about somebody like Lemmy, what makes Lemmy special as a bass player? Well, Lemmy's special because, well, I love his usage of chords, and I love his sound, and the fact that he's really an outlaw of rock and roll, and he's got that swagger. He's like Clint Eastwood. And in a lot of ways jocko was the same way yeah jocko was a daredevil too and he he was true to what he was

doing um though they come from i know i like to say refer to it as styles right but the edge in the attitude is the same and and i love that well i'd always heard about like i'd heard about jocko like when i was younger and i was not a jazz head and it's interesting before for a guy that you know on the edge and that brilliant and that possessed by by musical brilliance like that music i didn't listen to weather report when i was a kid there was no way i was gonna hear it and i never knew who he was but i'd always heard he was this crazy fucker that was a genius and it didn't end well so when i saw the documentary which is powerful and moving and you you got the the support of his family so

you were able to get the real story and the whole story and the arc of what he was involved in what made him so amazing it's it's fucking heartbreaking the the cost of talent and and sort of mental illness that comes with genius sometimes well that's that's what I wanted to share with the world. Number one, who my biggest influence was as a bass player. And also, again, the amazing story. And to celebrate that music in that time. And I've had so many young people come up to me today and say, hey, I just want you to know I'm now a fan of Jaco Pastorius and Weather Report and Joni Mitchell. And, you know, there's a movement with vinyl right now. Yeah, I'm in it.

With record store. Spending a lot of money. I never left it. Yeah, I mean, I never left it either. But the fact that now people are reconnecting with music from that time period and even before is really special. And Jocko was really diverse. I mean, he loved all styles of music, you know, and he was super, super funky. So people are connecting with that now, and that's what this film's all about.

It's not just a life story, but it's also, you know, a story about the time and music. And also, like you said, you know, mental, you know, when I see homeless people now, I'm not sitting there judging them. Right. Because I know there's more to it than that. Well, yeah, the fact that he ended up homeless after playing with Joni and after like well into his career, he lost it a little bit. Right. And it's like it's totally devastating. it a little bit right and it's like it's it's totally devastating but like he's also remains this kind of romantic figure you know in his struggles with mental illness and also just his

persistence absolutely um again i use the word daredevil you know wayne shorter in the film calls him a superhero and uh and i think that's fitting when did you first hear jaco you know those weather report records yeah yeah mr Gone and Heavy Weather and stuff. And you were able to identify through the rest of the sound, like, that guy's like... Yeah, well, I mean, it was a shockingly bizarre, bold, new sound that I'd never heard before. Yeah. I mean, it's the sound of the Fetla Space with the chorus pedal on it. It was just insane, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd never heard anything like it. And, you know, as much as it was like mind blowingly, this like psychedelic virtuoso beauty that was just, you know, and it was such a warm sound that really envelops you. But, you know,

like, like you said, you know, I, I, part of the movie, of course, to support Robert's endeavor,

but just to, you know, anything to shine light on a guy that, that gave, gave us so much. And because he was not a pop star, he's relatively obscure to the general public. Right.

Because people, you know, they like pop music. And we both saw him play around the same time. Flea and I both, we weren't there together, but I know you saw him at the Hollywood Bowl. I saw him at the Hollywood Bowl with Weather Report, but I also saw him in 1979 at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium. And what I saw in 1979 just changed my life on so many levels. I saw a very diverse crowd. I saw punkers, metalheads, jazzers. I saw skateboarders and surfers because Santa Monica Civic is one block from the beach. And then I also saw a guy that reminded me of the tribe that I used to see at Venice Beach skating and surfing.

Yeah. And so I thought he was really cool. And what I've learned in the film, I mean, that guy really loved the beach. I mean, half the film, he's in shorts, he's got no shirt, and he's, you know, body surfing or playing Frisbee. Yeah, yeah. So I just thought, this guy is super, super rad. He's so cool. And then then you know

just taking command of the stage i saw him he put his bass down on one side of the stage he took a running start and he slid into his basic was sliding into home plate and um and that was just really cool you know so that night changed my life and then i saw him three times after that did you meet him doing backflips and shit. Oh, yeah, all that stuff. He did backflips? Oh, yeah, he would do a backflip on stage. Yeah. Yeah, no, he was incredible.

That's what he'd do. But also, it's like the story, like for me, it's like it's Jaco's story, and you know it a lot better than me, Robert. I know it fairly well, you know, but it's really like this archetypal story of like you're talking about like this brilliance like how much is to be that brilliant how much mental illness has to accompany you to

have that sort of discipline to focus on one thing to the exclusion of everything else but as well it's like i feel like it's like this archetypal man thing to like go out and slay dragons you know what i mean it's like you leave your family and you go out in the world and you're gonna fuck shit up and you're going to beat your demons, your personal demons or exterior demons, depending how you grew up, what they are,

but we all have them. Right. To some extent, in some way. And you arm yourself with whatever weapons you can, which in Jaco's case was this base, you know,

that he creates this beautiful weapon, this beautiful fucking thing that's capable of like, you know, just really touching people's hearts and blowing people's minds. But ultimately, he can't slay that dragon

and he loses. Yeah. Because the mental illness and the drugs overcome him and he ends up, you know, becoming too self-destructive and dying. And it's so,

like the story of mankind. Yeah. You know, even though sometimes people win, but it's, you know's it's it's you know it's like you ever read beowulf yeah yeah yeah you know what i mean it's like that kind of shit it's like this age old since the beginning of time we all have to have these serious battles that we have to fight and we have to do it yeah it's either that or just be nothing like right

you know what i mean yeah disappear and become you know an empty person and also there's that feeling like i imagine you feel it and you both you guys like when you are an artist you know you have your life you have your demons you have the troubles that exist in the real world but when you get up on stage it's different it's the whole world is different right but maybe like the bigger the battle the more intense you have to be and that's why someone like jocko is so great. And didn't he invent the fretless electric bass kind of? Well, actually, you know, James Jamerson might have been the one who, at least for electric bass, you know, that's debatable.

It's like people, you know, with Tony Alva back in the day as a skater, you know, did he do the first air? Yeah. There's a lot of people, you know, in like San Bernardino that probably said, I did the first air. Fuck that shit, man, you know. But Jaco made the fretless bass sing like it hadn't happened before. I mean, he gave it a voice, a melodic voice that was just so powerful and dynamic.

And he was such a great collaborator with that instrument, whether he was collaborating with Joni Mitchell or collaborating with Ian Hunter, you know, on the song All-American Alien Boy. He was very young at that time. And the solo on that song might be one of the greatest rock bass solos you know uh ever and not a lot of people have heard it so you know he would again a great collaborator with a with a very unique sound and powerful sound that could be so beautiful but also so angry and yeah and in just abrasive in a beautiful kind of way you And so like instantly identifiable. I can't think of another musician ever really in the history of music

with a more instantly identifiable sound. A bass player, just an instrument in a band, like the second you hear it, it's him. Yeah, yeah. And there's no question. It's like, oh, could that be some studio guy? Maybe he was aping him? No, because no one could ever do it.

And a million guys tried. They did. And no one could ever do it and a million guys tried they did and no one could come not even close like it's so mildly transcendent above everything else no one could come close i was listening this morning i listened to don juan's reckless daughter right it's like give me a fucking break of the power and the beauty of it like like like like you feel like in the beauty you feel the vulnerability and the anger too like you said you know and the beauty of it. Like, you feel, like in the beauty, you feel the vulnerability and the anger too, like you said, you know, and the violence. But it's just like liquid love, man.

Fuck. It's like magic. Like, I mean, because it's weird because somebody can be an amazing virtuoso but not have that fucking depth or feel.

Yeah. So do you remember, like for you, Flea, Robert was talking about, you know, jazz and everything else but when you were coming up who was the bass player that you identified as like the guy that was like i'm going that way when i started playing bass yeah man i don't know i i i was so into trumpet players you know but the first i just liked bass lines and stuff i mean jaco was the first guy where it's like

this is the greatest electric bass player on earth there There's no question. This is the greatest guy. Yeah. But there are just guys, I like the way certain guys sound in certain bands that aren't really the greatest guys. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, I love Billy Cox. Yeah, yeah.

Like, I really love Billy Cox's playing in the band of gypsies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's just really simple hypnotic bass, but it touches me, you know? Right, right. And, you know, Paul McCartney's bass playing is stellar and, like, unbelievable. Phil Lesh, where does Phil Lesh stand in the pantheon?

Phil Lesh is great. I mean, you know, he's kind of created his own thing, you know, and obviously there's a lot of jam bands out there that, you know, are pulling something from him. Entwistle. Entwistle, yeah, he's awesome. Gieser Butler from Sabbath. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's awesome. Geezer Butler from Sabbath. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's just so badass. And he wrote most of those fucking songs, right? Yeah, the lyrics. Geezer's the guy. Who wrote most of yours? Do you write with Anthony? We all write together communally. And usually the songs always start with either,

I mean, not always, but 90% of the time start with either something I came up with or the guitar player came up with. And in the movie, but 90% of the time, start with either something I came up with or the guitar player came up with. And in the movie, you've got Geddy Lee, you got Sting, you got, who are some of the other best players? You've got Jerry Jamat. Jerry Jamat was Jocko's favorite electric bass player.

He was incredible, man. Yeah, he's amazing. At your show. Yeah. Dude. And he's another guy that's been, had demons following around for many many years but he played on bb king the thrill is gone he played with aretha franklin he even played on

mr bojangles that song back in the day and he came up with muscle shoals and duane allman back in the day they were they were like the band right right and uh early on and then he kind of stepped away from that and just was a a total session guy around new york and everything and uh so anthony jackson you know you know i mean he cut that track when he was like 17 man you know and we and he's not in the film but we did interview him and he's in our bonus section. You know, there's just so many, so many tremendous players that were involved in this. What about Sting? You guys like Sting?

You know, it's funny for me. I like him fine. He's great. But I mean, it's a weird thing for me is that when I was young, I loved the police. Like around the time when I started playing rock bass too I really loved the police but it's the one band yeah that just

and it's really the only band like any band I listen to I go put on the record and I'm like I love it as much as when I was 15

or 20 or whatever but like I put on the police I got the greatest hit so I was sorry but I can't put it on I was just like it didn't hold up for you it's the only band ever

and I still know it's good like the craftsmanship is good the city is good band ever, and I still know it's good. The craftsmanship is good. The scene is good, but it just, I don't know. It's weird. I saw the police. I'm a moron.

I saw the police at the, I think it was, not Santa Anita. It was the Hollywood, the racetrack, the horse races. Recently or back in the day? No, back in the day, man.

I was in high school. Yeah, it was great. I mean, Thompson Twins opened up, and I remember they had like a tea break in the middle of their show, like an intermission, but it was them having tea. Yeah.

And I thought that was pretty cool. Sting's always been super cool to me, and obviously he's a musician who tries different things. He's into experimenting. Yeah. He's into expanding. He's one of those guys so he's sort of like bono where the the personality sort of starts to hinder the appreciation of the

music after certain you don't have to say anything on that but i just like it's just sort of interesting like with sting because i i like the police but at some point i'm like sting just becomes sting and i can't separate him from for me he's one of those guys he's a really good musician yeah yeah without doubt he's a great musician he's willing to try lots of different stuff it just i don't cry or or go you don't get moved i don't get moved yeah but i love but i respect it i just don't get moved now i got in trouble from some people in canada for sort of dismissing rush the other day uh i don't remember who i was i was talking albini and you know albini you know he'll drag he'll drag you down to some places

where you end up saying things that you might not. But I'll tell you something. Rush is like the easiest band in the world to make fun of. Yeah. You know, Geddy Lee's voice, and it's funny. The Million Drums. The Million Drums. But they're so unique.

Yeah. And they're so rad. And they're such good players. And there's nothing else like them. Right. And they're Rush. And, like, I loved Rush. Like,

when I first started playing bass, like, I wanted the virtuoso stuff so I liked, that's why I had Hemispheres, that album.

Oh yeah. And I was like, I'd listen to that and Hendrix and then I got into punk rock and it all changed but I,

I don't know, I love Rush. Well that's interesting because like, you guys had, I love Rush too. You do? Yeah.

Oh yeah. It's on the record. So, but you guys had so much in place technique wise and then like, guys rush to you do yeah oh it's on the record so but you guys had so much in place um technique wise and then like because i hear you talking about jazz with a certain love and you obviously have love for it too and then you sort of get into punk rock you get into thrash or whatever do you do but you didn't you never felt like you were abandoning some other thing

that that had more integrity no no because because integrity is what you make of it. I mean, the notes that you hit, how you play, how you perform, how you create, that to me is integrity. It's like I feel like I've earned my stripes all these years. I just turned 51. Youngster. I feel blessed. I mean, I played with all my heroes.

It's amazing. Still. So I don't know. I don't know really how to answer that. Well, let me ask you in a different way. Would you like to make a jazz record? I could make a jazz record right now. You got some recording gear.

I could do it. I'll try. I mean, I don't know how good it's going to be, but I can swing. Would you like to make a jazz record? Yeah, hell yeah. I've made jazz records, or played on them. Yeah.

But the thing for me, like in terms of that question, it was never about abandoning anything. Like when I got into punk rock, it didn't mean, oh, I can't like Zeppelin now because it's not cool. Or I can't listen to Louis Armstrong

every day when I go home, like I still do. But the thing for me, it was just a huge lesson in it that really changed my life was that it wasn't about, up until that point, it was like I was really into virtuosity

and musicianship. Right. And punk rock taught me that the emotional intent and the purity in the intent is where the integrity is. It's not in the... Yeah, it's not in the style

or how athletic you are on your instrument. I appreciate virtuosity, and that never left. I still appreciate virtu your instrument. Like, I appreciate virtuosity. Yeah. And that never left. I still appreciate virtuosity. But I don't appreciate virtuosity for the sake of showing, you know, to prove how fast you are. Empty noodling. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean?

I just like, like for me, like I would like the germs are a really big band for me. I listen to that record GI over and over and over. And it like, it really affected me in a profound way where, and I was like, you know, it's remedial music. Yeah. But it, you know, no one else could do like, you know, it's remedial music. Yeah. But no one else could do it. Right. And it's just one of those things. It's like a great painter like Basquiat or something

where it's like a billion guys have copied him. No one can make a painting that looks like that. Yeah. And it's just like childish scribbling. Right. I mean, you know what I mean? No, absolutely. So let's start with music too.

Like I never stopped liking shit that I like. Police is the only band. And I still don't not like them. Right. I just don't want to put it on. Like I used to put it on, like I'd pull over and be like, fuck, you know,

Regatta de Blanc, that record, you know. Yeah. All that shit, like it really affected me. I went to go see him play at the Forum, it blew my mind. Stuart Copeland's drums,

I was sitting behind him and on a Tom's it said, fuck off you cunt. Which he did for Sting because he fucking hated Sting. Right, right. You know? Really? Yeah, and the thing I really like was before this show,

they played the whole Bob Marley Exodus album in the form really loud. Oh, that's awesome. And that was rad. Well, you know, I think that's the amazing thing about rock music in general is that it's not about whether the music is simple. It's what you bring to it feeling-wise and how you communicate with it, right? Exactly. Did you get to meet Jocko?

I had an encounter with him, actually. There was a guitar show in Hollywood called the Los Angeles Guitar Show. It was at the Merlin Hotel. I believe that's now like a Holiday Inn Express or something. And each room was a different guitar company or a cable company or an amp company. And I was in this one room and I heard this really loud. It was actually kind of annoying. Like the bass was just turned way up and the walls were shaking.

It was kind of scary. And the windows were rattling. And I went in that room kind of pissed off. And I look in there and it's Jocko. And there's no one else. There's one guy in the room. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a rep.

And he's sitting down and he's playing this bass. And I was like, whoa. He was like walking into a brick wall. He's like, whoa. You know. Yeah. This is heavy. Yeah.

I didn't say anything to him. But I took a knee about 10 feet from him. And he's just like staring at me. But I had this big smile. And I was just so amazed and the room filled up I mean within like a minute it was packed you know and everybody was just in there and and he started playing grooves and in quotes from his own stuff also quotes from Jerry Jamat and you know Jameserson. And he's looking at everybody right in the eyes. He's not smiling.

He's looking at us and sizing us up, almost like I can kick all of your asses right now. So don't even mess with me. Because at that time, he was having a hard time, 1985. But we were just so stoked to have him even size us up it was like this is great and then his girlfriend at the time she was beautiful she was like a kind of tall surfer gal and uh and she i never forget she had like a pair of uh jean shorts on and she had like an op hoodie on and she had two cans of beer in her pocket one in each pocket and she said jaco come on let's go

you know just like that straight out and he got up he put the bass down and he left us all there hanging and we were super stoked she's like quit quit fooling around yeah exactly come on let's go fool around playing bass let's go let's go drink some beer let's go have a beer let's go get high but it was like it was it was crazy because i i was so shy back then. And now I'm like, man, I would have bought him a burger or something. We would have gone out, gone to the beach and gone surfing or something. Well, you probably wouldn't have allowed it. Yeah, right?

Maybe not, maybe. Well, you made this amazing movie. And how long did it take to make it? Nearly six years. What was the holdup? Well, each year we get new treasures like joni came on board year four jerry jermott came on board uh year three and a half um you know paul marchand my director he he's a trooper i mean he's been there for the six years and and honestly at one

point i think he was losing his mind and he needed a break and Scorsese called him and he went and made a film with Scorsese, edited for him for six months in New York and that needed to happen. That was the only time he left for an extended amount of time

and he actually had been offered a lot of gigs with a lot of big directors and he just recently was doing uh he's still kind of think doing something with morgan neville who did that film 20 feet from stardom so he was a real soldier and a trooper and uh we had steven kayak for a while who had done that film uh scott walker 30th century man and uh, you know, every person that's been involved in this project as a producer or whatever, line producer, or just helping us get there, you know, where we needed to go, I got to commend them because without these different

people, these soldiers I call them, we wouldn't be where we are now. And it's been a long haul. And it's and I've gone to, it's like, I've gone to film school for six years, you know, I learned so much and I could not do this again like that. Cause I found myself in central Florida at like four in the morning, you know, like with one of Jocko's friends, you know, driving back from kind of Melbourne, Florida down to Fort Lauderdale. And, and, and I'm just, and he's falling asleep at the wheel, literally. And I'm hitting him going, wake up, wake up. I'm thinking, I don't want to die in Florida. I'm like, geez,

I've got, you know, I got my two kids and my wife back home. It's like, what am I doing? You know, questioning everything, but, um, you know, battled through it. But again, I have to thank every one of those people. You know, again, this guy Bob Bobbing who, you know, really helped us with the early years. And he was really carrying the torch for Jocko early on when nobody cared. And got a lot of magazine covers for Jocko and helped get him back on the map. And I think things happen for a reason. You know, you just i inherited this you know i had when i first met jaco's son in 1996 you know i in fort lauderdale i said someday

you got to make a film about your father you know it it needs to be done his influence is so broad and wide to so many different types of musicians and and like flea or getty or you know who a lot of gospel players funk players r b punkers rock whatever and um he said yeah yeah we're gonna do it you know and over time i get the occasional call and finally i got involved in the project and then i really just decided i would finance it, and that's it. That's where we are. Because to make a film like this of quality, you know, you got to just really dive in all the way. And was the family always with you, or was that a struggle? You know, on and off.

I mean, there were times where I'm sure they hated us, and there were times where they kind of loved us. And now we're all cool. We've always been cool. where they kind of loved us and now we all we're all cool we've always been cool but i don't blame them because along a journey along the way you have a journey like this and you're going to come up with edits and cuts that people aren't going to like for whatever reason and at the time you're kind of questioning why but then you realize what like now i know why you know i know why the film is great and what it took to get here and i look back to those times where I was like oh man what's going on whatever I'm just trying to keep just trying to keep people happy and make sure I had my creative vision

still intact I'll take care of my director but take care of the family too you know so when's it gonna release is gonna release in theaters and so yeah we're do we've done a number of film festivals and independent theatrical screenings around the U.S. But we are going to release VOD on December 1. And on the 27th of November, we're actually going to release on DVD. So you go to your local record shop, whatever, you know, you'll find it there, even places like Guitar Center. And then on November 22nd, we're doing the LA premiere at the Ace Theater in downtown Los Angeles. And that's going to be a really amazing event because

my dream was to screen this thing at the Ace Theater. It's such a beautiful venue. And to be able to do that was a dream come true. And we're going to have some live music. Felix Pastorius, who's an amazing bass player. I know you can vouch for that. That's his son? He's a badass. He's a badass.

He's playing with his band from Brooklyn called Hipster Assassins. And then I'll be playing a set of music with another incredible bass player, Armand Sabaleco, and actually Brooks Wackerman, who's the younger drummer of Chad Wackerman. And he's been with me a long time.

And maybe we're going to twist Flea's arm to get up and play a special song with us. Will that take a lot of twisting? No. We tracked a special song with us. Will that take a lot of twisting? No. We tracked a special song called Come On, Come Over, and it all sort of blossomed off of a jam that we had at... You and Flea? At Flea's studio, yeah, with Armand.

And it's so great. It's so funky. Oh, that sounds like a blast. Now, are you guys recording now? Yep. New Chili Peppers record? Yep. Yeah? Yep. How, that sounds like a blast. Now, are you guys recording now? Yep. New Chili Peppers record? Yep. Yeah?

Yep. How's that going? Great. He's not allowed to talk. Oh, he's not allowed to talk about it? It's top secret? I mean, they can't stop me, but I just, you know, we're recording, yeah. Screw the label.

I'm just not going to talk about it. You know, I just felt it's not appropriate. You guys all getting along? Yeah, yeah. We love each other. That's sweet. And you guys, is Metallica recording? Yes, we are. Yeah? How's that going? It's not appropriate. You guys all getting along? Yeah, yeah, we love each other. That's sweet. And you guys, is Metallica recording?

Yes, we are. Yeah, how's that going? It's going great. Great. Hopefully you'll have an album next year. Well, thanks for talking, fellas. I'm excited about the movie, and congratulations on finishing it. It was great when I saw it. I'm sure I'm going to go in and watch the DVD again.

All right. Well, thanks so much for having us. We really appreciate it. Yeah, good to meet you guys. Nice to go in and watch the DVD again. All right. Well, thanks so much for having us. We really appreciate it. Yeah, good to meet you guys. Nice to meet you, Mark. Right on. Fuck, man. It's exciting.

It's exciting, man. It's exciting to have modern rock royalty right here in the fucking garage. And Trujillo, he brought me this little uh this little little amp that uh that is signed that's very nice of him brought me this little amp egg thing that's signed by him and flea but I'm not gonna I'm not I'm not gonna play through it I'll play though man I'll fucking play Anyway. Thank you. Boomer lives! with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Gold tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite

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