WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 680 - Ben Hoffman

Episode Date: February 11, 2016

Comedian Ben Hoffman’s latest venture into country music seems inevitable. As an out-of-place Jewish kid in Kentucky, he found an escape by becoming a comedic actor and writer. But Ben tells Marc that career ups and downs, not to mention OCD and crippling anxiety, pushed him back to his good ol’ boy roots and prompted him to create Nashville sensation Wheeler Walker, Jr. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Innovation is in the city's DNA. And it's with this pedigree that bright minds and future-thinking problem solvers are tackling some of the world's greatest challenges from right here in Calgary. From cleaner energy, safe and secure food, efficient movement of goods and people, and better health solutions, Calgary's visionaries are turning heads around the globe, across all sectors, each and every day. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look how at calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fucksicles? What's going on? It's Mark Marin here. This is WTF. I gotta tell you, man.

I gotta be honest with you, folks. I am having a good time on set. There's something about being in this fourth season and just knowing what's up and knowing that it's probably going to be the last one and knowing that we've got this sort of full through

line. this season is going to all be in order there's a full seasonal arc with several different environments and they're all pretty much um made up and uh and just working with actors again and just being you know feeling comfortable and confident in the whole thing like today what do we do today who do i work with today ron stark uh is who i worked with today and i i just uh we really just started working together the other day and it's uh it's fucking hilarious and also like if you have not seen the show marin and i don't plug myself that much really uh but all three seasons are on netflix and they do get better i'm proud of all of them,

but I think that a lot of people sort of were kind of disturbed and, and, and, and a little bit blown away by the season finale of the last season. But we are picking up a year later from that scenario. So think what you will. I've shaved off my mountain man style beard i'm back to the uh traditional mark maron facial hair configuration and it's weird i'll tell you one thing that i

realized about having a lot of hair when i did i never had a beard like that before and my hair was very long is that there is a great freedom in not giving a fuck about how you look. Because like when you have a long fucked up hair and just a big old shitty beard. It's like what's the point? What do you think is going to change? What is there to keep in order? Not much. You just don't want your beard fluffing out too much.

So your head looks all weird and round. Like some peculiar shakespearean clown i did get some flack from those people who didn't know why the beard was there about like well you're one of those guys now no it was for a role but i did i did like it i did like the way it looked i like the gray in it i think there's a beard in my future when i fully give up i think there's a beard in my future i don't want my beard to represent anything trendy other than i don't give a fuck anymore if i ever have a beard again you will know that i'm telling you honestly that if you see me in a beard in the future it means i truly don't give a fuck anymore what a liberating day that will be

but not liberating right now right now i'm well coiffed have a mustache and a soul patch to maintain and a short haircut to worry about and you know just trying to look good look for that you know look clean but i can't wait to get to i don't give a fuck but you people have to give a fuck no no i got a lozenge stuck way down in my okay i got it munching on these nicotine lozenges still and god damn i love them and that's why i someday folks maybe when i grow that i don't give a fuck anymore beard i'll rid myself of all compulsive behavior i think i'm talking about a future buddha mark that wanders around with no self-loathing thoughts or self-critical assessments, with no vanity, no shame, no aggravated compulsive behaviors to relieve me of the stress of me.

just a bearded man dressed simply, not talking much and laughing inside because he truly doesn't give a fuck because he's free. That's my future. I don't know where that Mark will be walking. I don't know what that Mark will be doing. He will not be working. I fear that he may wander from town to town, giggling to himself through his beard, maybe stopping for not even coffee anymore, maybe some mint tea like they drink in the Middle East, some warm mint tea on a hot day.

hot day that's the one thing i learned in jerusalem i learned nothing mystical there was no cathartic you know in retrospect deeply spiritual moment but i was baffled and confused by some of the arab people who sold things in stores as they sat around and drank hot mint tea poured through uh like a lift they lift the pot up and they as they pour it so there's a long stream of hot mint tea i remember saying why why the fuck do you drink hot tea man it's 100 degrees outside but i didn't say that i said can i ask you a question um why why are you guys drinking hot tea it's really hot out. And the fella told me, he said, well, your body's hot. It's 96 degrees in there.

So if you dump a bunch of cold liquid into it, it's going to require energy to get that liquid to 96 degrees, to body temperature. So you're going to generate more heat trying to process the cold liquid than you would drinking some tea that's about body temperature. So it actually, the mint is cooling and the warmth of it will not generate

any more heat within your body to cause you more heat. I always remembered that and I never listened to it did I mention who I had on the show today Ben Hoffman had a show on Comedy Central a while back I believe it was the Ben show now back when he was doing that I didn't have him on here

because I didn't think I liked him I honestly did not think I liked this guy there was something about him that rubbed me the wrong way now some of you know when that happens if you do a little further investigation either they are truly rubbing you the wrong way because there's a problem or they might be a little similar to you and that's what you're reacting to i don't like that guy because he seems to you and that's what you're reacting to. I don't like that guy because he seems to have something that I have inside of me that I don't find pleasant. Yeah. Whatever the reason, I didn't have him on then.

And then I got this record in the mail. And I didn't know what it was. It's very hard for me to keep track of shit because I do a lot of things and I get a lot of promotional material. I get a lot of records. I get a lot of books. Some of them are solicited. Some aren't. But I just get this record and I get a lot of records.

And it's this big country record. There's a dude on front. It's this guy, Wheeler Walker Jr. And it's just a classic, cheesy country record cover with a dude sort of laying on his elbow. I think he's got a big cowboy hat, got sunglasses. Very reminiscent of the country records that I remember from when I was a kid in New Mexico. And the thing was, I didn't know what it was. And I thought it was a kid in New Mexico. And the thing was, is I didn't know what it was. And I thought it was a country record. And the record's called Redneck Shit.

So there's this cowboy dude on the cover. And I'm like, wow, this guy's a little out of date or maybe he's just classic country. I don't know why I'm getting it, but I do get country records. I enjoy country records. You know, and I'm like, wait a minute. Is that fucking Ben Hoffman? That's fucking Ben Hoffman. So I listened to the record. it but i do get country records i enjoy country records you know and i'm like wait a minute is

that fucking ben hoffman that's fucking ben hoffman so i listened to the record and it's like it's a real country record i mean it sounds good the production is good i mean the songs are are a bit crass and a bit uh uh shocking to some degree in terms of what you expect out of a country record. You know, one of them's called Fuck You Bitch. One of them's called Better Off Beating Off. One of them's called Beer, Weed, and Coochie. One of them's called Sit on My Face. One of them's called Eating Pussy and Kicking Ass,

which I remember seeing live years ago at a sketch show and i know it was him and then there's one called fighting fucking farting now like all right i don't love parody records i don't love joke records but the thing about this record was it's beautifully produced music and they're real country songs if if country would sort of loosen up a little bit i think so it's a tight parody in a way but i just couldn't believe it was this kid ben hoffman and i was impressed with it and i knew he rubbed me the wrong way but i'm like fuck it i want to talk to ben hoffman i like this idea whatever the fuck this is this wheeler walk Jr. business.

So then we have this long conversation, which you'll hear in a moment, you know, and it turns out we have a lot in common. Only, you know, I'm a Jew from New Mexico. He's a Jew from Kentucky. And there was just,

I don't know, you know, it's also part of my own sort of reconstruction around the South. Like over the years, I've, you know, become progressively more enamored with the South and, you know, very excited by it.

And I love going there and all the stereotypes have sort of, you know, faded away from me, you know, and to the point where I, it's one of my favorite parts of the country but now i get this opportunity to talk about this you know with this jewish guy who grew up in lexington grew up listening to country music and made this country record you know with with with real dudes i mean he made it with like the same crew that uh that does uh jason isbell records that does uh sturgill simpson records it was produced by dave cobb in nashville so we got into this conversation about people's understanding or misunderstanding

about the stereotype of being southern and also about being a jewish southerner and uh you know about a lot of other things but about country music specifically because i'm a guy i play music i don't take myself that seriously and you know ben is a guy that created this character to do this music and really became enamored with playing the music and writing the songs and singing them in character and we really just had a conversation about we know what is country music and and who is uh uh entitled to call themselves a country musician or a country or a country music record and also just the fact that this is a guy that's not fundamentally a lifer music wise but enjoyed playing music so we i don't know man he's got a very sort of strange frequency and

persistency that i i found uh i i had a good time with ben hoffman talking about all those things and uh and we are going to play a song from the record of his choosing at the end um you know take it how you're going to take it you know know, it's Wheeler Walker Jr. country music. But right now, let's go to my conversation with Ben Hawley. Calgary is a city built by innovators. Innovation is in the city's DNA. And it's with this pedigree that bright minds and future thinking problem solvers are tackling some of the world's greatest challenges from right here in Calgary.

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The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Hoffman. Pull that thing into your face. That's what I need to do. Yeah.

I'm kind of a germaphobe, so I think that's my issue. Are you really? Yeah. Like, how bad? Pretty bad. I mean, we're going right into it. Sure, why not? Yeah, I mean, you know.

No, I don't know. Behavior therapy. I mean, I did the whole fucking thing. You did what whole fucking thing? I did the whole classes. I went to the- For germaphobia? For OCD, yeah.

Oh, for OCD. Yeah, I had to rub a dollar bill on my forehead. Whoa. You're talking about this like everyone's like, oh, yeah, the old- Yeah, I always do that. I always explain. It's like, you know that thing, and no one's ever heard of it. Where you have to rub a dollar bill on your face?

Well, they said graduation was to stick- This is not a joke. To stick your hand in the toilet. Grad joke, to stick your hand in the toilet. Graduation was to stick your hand in the toilet. I did not graduate. No fucking way. But no, but I did have to like touch the ground. It was like this new form of OCD therapy and you would like touch the ground and then touch your face and then not be able to wash your face or your hands for like six hours.

So this is like... It's like overexposure yeah cognitive conditioning yeah almost like uh pavlovian like yeah so when you're in the like on a train holding that's nothing i've i've touched the ground right i've rubbed a dollar bill on my face i get the uh i get i get the idea of it it didn't work it didn work. I think it worked as a reference point. Right. But it, you know, I think you need to really stay on it to kind of do, you know. Yeah. It's not like when I shake some disgusting guy's hand, I'm not like, oh, remember I did this thing in this class. You don't have to wake up in the morning and just rub some money on your face.

Sleep with money. Yeah, it's not like going to the gym. I don't do it every morning. Do you go to the gym? Well, I try to. I haven't been going as much. But I mean, is that because of the germ thing

or just because you're a lazy fuck? That's more on the lazy fuck end. Yeah, some of these things, some of these things, the lazy fuck, OCD, anxiety, neuroses, it's hard to know what's what. Sometimes the OCD supports the lazy fuck rationalization.

Yeah, but sometimes the OCD helps. It's like, it doesn't work for me, but it could be like, you know, you could get obsessive about going to the gym. Right. I wish I had that OCD instead of the like. But wait, how long have you had this OCD business? Oh, shit. Your whole life?

My whole life, it got, I mean, kind of unmanageable, early 20s. Like you fell into yourself? Like you couldn't get out of the house or you got afraid of your own hands? It was bad enough that my, it's bad enough that my parents noticed because I remember, I remember I would,

one time I went out to meet some friends and then I went to, I had to, and then I had to get gas. I went to the gas station. I'm like, oh, that pump is covered in chemicals. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I went back home, and I take a shower. I'm like, fuck it. What's the point of going out?

I mean, I had a bunch of those kind of nights where it was like the amount of work it takes to get out of the house. Well, I've gotten into sort of washing my hands thing, but I think that's healthy. Yeah, I think it is. As long as it doesn't get in the way, I've gotten into sort of a washing my hands thing, but I think that's healthy. Yeah, I think it is. As long as it doesn't get in the way, I'm much better now, but as long as it doesn't get

in the way of your life, it's like... Yeah, but yours got unmanageable? Yeah, I couldn't do anything. Really? Yeah. So wait, now... Now I just use it as an excuse.

Right. You can get out, you know, you can, I can't because I got a thing. Yeah, by the time I wash my hands, there's no way I can make it out. By the time I wash my hands, there's no way I can make it out tonight. By the time I wash my hands again. Yeah, it's six now.

You want to meet at nine. It's not going to happen. Because I have some hand washing to do. I don't want to explain it. Oh, shit. That's Friday. That's shower night. Yeah, that's several shower day.

So you're not on TV anymore. No. That also hurts the OCD. Yeah. But what happened? So it was the, what was it? It was Ben, what was it called? Well, it was called The Ben Show.

The Ben Show. And then some. I feel like I met you during that. Like, I was going to have you on. I probably would have saved the show. I apologize. By the way, can I tell you what happened during that? With me? Yeah, with this show. I don't think I ever told you this. No, I think I've only have you on. I probably would have saved the show. I apologize. By the way, can I tell you what happened during that? With me?

Yeah, with this show. I don't think I ever told you this. No, I think I've only met you once. No, we met a couple. I think we met a couple times. I misunderstood you as being unpleasant. Yes, I'm not unpleasant. But this will explain it all.

So my Twitter, which, by the way, we both know Twitter's kind of a waste of time. I've got to get out of it. I've got to get out of it it feels if you're ocd and also needy and also an addictive person it's it's like torturing yourself it really is so i decide my thing is just i'm just gonna it's just gonna be lies i'm just gonna make up shit oh okay and because i like to fuck with people i think i don't know if you know a couple of them actually got in the news because they thought it was real. Oh, really? So you did some pranking? No, when Obama was re-election, when Clooney had that thing for Obama, I tweeted as if

I was there. And I tweeted some crazy shit. I said, what was the one that got me in the news? I said that, I pretended I was hanging out with Billy Gibbons the whole time, which obviously he wasn't there. Because no one, it was like a press blackout, so no one was there. So I pretended like I was there, like Billy Gibbons. Are time which obviously he wasn't there because no one it was like a press blackout so no one was there so I pretended like I was there like Billy Gibbons are you friends with Billy? I've never met him

I started describing the speech so everyone's like oh this guy's at the speech and then I go Obama's got kind of a racy thing there he said I forget the exact quote I put he said that Obama said that George Clooney's, look at this crowd, George Clooney, you know,

a lot of people. Clooney must have more pull than Travolta in a massage parlor or something like that. Yeah, like a racy joke. Yeah. And then like all the press is just like, you wouldn't believe what Obama said. So then that got me excited. Like I could start fucking with people more. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it never, like, I think one were some people one worked for the most part it's just me lying on twitter and trying to get like three dudes in idaho to believe me and it never and it got traction because people thought you were really there that one got traction how irresponsible is the fucking press that that can happen well that's hilarious it's it's amazing but and that was right around but what i'm getting to about with you was so then for no for no reason at all when seth myers got the um uh late night i was like fucking shit that was my gig i go it was down to this again i've never met lauren i've never met seth myers obviously the last person they would call to audition for that.

I go, it was down to me, Tom Green, and Seth Meyers. All the NBC execs told me I had the gig, but they knew they would have to give it to Seth because of Lorne. Oh, yeah, I'm repeating, don't know any of them. And then, of course, 10 people. I was hoping it was like 1,000 but like 10 dudes are like, what happened? I started explaining like how I nailed it and like NBC wanted to hire me. Yeah.

Yeah. But anyway, I, it was one of those things that nobody picked up on. So then I was like, I was so fucking bored and I go, fuck this. I'm done. I'll explain it all on the WTF podcast Thursday. Yeah. And you just saw that last tweet and you go, I can't do Thursday. Let's how about next week? And I'm like, oh fuck. Like the, I can't do Thursday. How about next week?

And I'm like, oh, fuck. Like the one guy I didn't want to trick read it. And then, of course, by the laws of nature, I ran into you at Fogarty the next night. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, fuck. Now I look like a fucking... Because I'm not going to call you back because you think I'm coming in to talk... I don't know how much you read backwards.

You think I'm coming in to talk about the... I don't think I put it all together. I think you just saw that last tweet. Yeah, like, all right, this guy wants to do the shows. But I was demanding to come in. It was just said as a joke, and you read the last tweet, and I felt like an asshole, so I was like, I got to keep my distance for like a year.

Oh, so you were awkward? It's weird, because I didn't even register it that way. I don't remember putting it together as being part of some narrative. Well, because you're a normal person you weren't reading every tweet you just saw the last one that referenced you exactly all i care about is me yeah but why would you go back and read my whole timeline the thing was is that i thought you were going to come on because of the ben show i couldn't tell the difference between your on-screen demeanor of what you might be well it wasn't that it wasn't that much different i

mean i actually really liked the show i mean i wasn't i it wasn't that much different i mean i actually really liked the show i mean i wasn't i still can't believe they aired the fucking thing to be honest with you it was pretty out there um i think people kind of got it to me it was like i'm gonna do a sketch show i'm gonna show my real life you know kind of you know like what you and louis are doing but like i'm gonna do i just going to show my life. Right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think people thought I was doing a Kaufman or something, and it really was my fucking life.

And then it was just like, your life's not that funny or exciting, you know. And then I mixed sketches. So then they really didn't know what it was. Basically, when they called, like, you know, we're not airing this shit anymore. Well, how did it start, the Ben show? Where did you fucking come from? Like, you were one of these guys where it's sort of like, oh, this know, we're not airing this shit anymore. Well, how did it start, the Ben show? Where did you fucking come from?

Like, you were one of these guys where it's sort of like, oh, this guy's all over the place. And I don't know who he is. Well, I'm actually from Kentucky, believe it or not. You grew up there? Yeah, I grew up in Kentucky. My family's mostly from Tennessee. Jews from Tennessee. Jews from Tennessee and Kentucky.

Can you explain that to me, how that happened? I don't. Like, is there generations of Jews from Tennessee? Because I don't know that I've met that many southern Jews, but I know they've been down there a long time. Well, I knew my great-grandmother. She died when I was like 13. Really?

She almost made it to my bar mitzvah. Yeah. But that killed her. Yeah. The idea of it. The idea of a bar mitzvah in Kentucky killed her. By the way, there were four bar mitzvahs in my class that year. It must have been a very small temple.

I'm not making this up. My temple was this creaky old building downtown, four of us. In where? In Lexington. You don't really get the cream of the crop rabbis down there. It's where they go to die, literally. And this blind one-legged rabbi. Come on.

I swear to God. You can't make this stuff up. You can, though. You can make, you can exactly. You could make this stuff up, but I'm not. And he,

you forget the blind people, the shades, it's not for them, it's for you. Right. But they were uncomfortable, so he took them off. So he's like,

eyes rolling back in his head, bahoo, you know, it's like a horror movie. Yeah. I'm 10 years old. And then. 13.

No, leading up to it. Yeah. And he, and his fake leg was uncomfortable. So he would put the fake leg, this giant like white plastic leg with like the black rabbi shoe and the black sock up on the table while he's, while he's doing his Hebrew. And the four of us. Come on. It sounds made up like a whole you

know my mom would be dropping me off and i'm grabbing onto the to the fucking station wagon like that we don't want to go and she we're like i remember telling the other parent like you don't this is 11 years old or whatever like you don't understand like this is a blind one-legged man he's taking his leg off his eyes are rolling back and he's talking this language that we don't understand what the fuck is going on and like we don't want to go it's just scary and you have a little brother i have two younger brothers yeah so it's the three of you no well it was me and three other guys they were you know in the class before us my looking back my parents were actually really smart about that stuff because i remember my dad i remember like you know i don't want to do this this is stupid and he just was like my dad had to do it i had to do it your son left like he skipped all

the like it's when you become him he skipped all the right he knew he knew that shit wasn't going to work right he just tradition yeah just shut up and do it shut up and you're a jew was the yeah so you remember your great-grandmother, though, almost? Yeah. Well, no, I remember her telling me they put her and her sister on a boat from Russia to Chattanooga, Tennessee in 1901. Oh, really? Okay. So my family goes back to- Still that first generation immigrants kind of- First generation immigrants.

Early 1900s. Yeah, like they got off the boat. Because I think there were some Civil War Jews. There were. Probably not. There can't be that Yeah, like they got off the boat. Because I think there were some Civil War Jews. There were. Probably not. There can't be that many, right? I don't know. I think I, you know, I know that this information is out there.

Maybe I'm just lazy because it's not the research project I want to be involved with. But I believe. Jews in the South. Yeah. Given the history of Jews in the import-export business, I happen, I have to assume that there must have been Jews that had come over from you know london or europe that were probably involved in uh slave trading and god knows what i mean they've been around jews have been around for a while yeah all my family and especially in

the nashville area like nashville and chattanooga like murphysboro around there they all go way but i mean when i go back to nash it's like, I was talking about the show. I remember a couple of Thanksgivings. My brother's in a, my middle brother's in a band. So he always- Pretty big band, right? Yeah. What is it, Scissor Sisters? Yeah.

So he always gets all the, you know, the props. And I'm always like, I got my own show. I was like, oh, fucking my turn. Yeah. So we take all the kids to a movie thing. We were in Nashville for Thanksgiving. And this woman comes up to me. She's like, Ben Hoff hoffman i'm like i'm looking back at my brother like yeah you fuck her see check it out now it's my turn she's like i love the ben show i was like fuck

yeah you know everywhere i go there's my fans yeah and she's like you know every episode's so funny she's like do you know uh she's like i know you're uh you're your your cousin Robbie. I was like, oh, no way. How do you know him? She's like, I'm married to him. I was like, so you're my fucking cousin. It's not a star sighting. It doesn't count. Yeah.

So I've had dinner with, like, you've been to my parents. What is this? Yeah, it's not real. And then, of course, that led back to the- That your brother left you. But yeah, but I go back there and I just, it's a really big family in the Southwest. So where were you born? I was born actually in St. Louis because my dad is from St. Louis and he was a doctor.

Oh, really? And he was doing- What kind of doctor? Internist. Really? What's your dad? Orthopedic. Used to be.

So your dad's a general practitioner basically. Yeah. Full service doctor. Everything. Yeah. Sort of your dad's a general practitioner, basically. Yeah. Full service doctor. Everything. Yeah, sort of like he knows a little bit about everything. Well, not when I call, but yeah. Yeah. Well, my youngest brother's a doctor.

Really? Yeah. So that guy turned out okay. He's good. Well, you know, my other brother, I was always the one they were concerned about. Concerned about? You were the oldest one? I was the oldest. middle well you know my other brother i was always the one they were concerned about you were the oldest one i was the oldest and like you know like when i got the show that wasn't it wasn't like oh wow he has a tv it was like i can't believe he's getting up he's going to a job

uh-huh like oh right he's getting out of the shower at his time you know he's not what you know i see him on tv he's not having a nervous breakdown. He's functioning. He's functioning, yeah. So that was the bigger news around that. But your brother's band was pretty big, right? Or is it still? Yeah, they're on a, kind of on hiatus right now. He actually just got a place out here. He's doing more writing and producing. But, I mean, in England, there was this point there.

And again, I'm some schmuck from Kentucky. I'd never known a famous person in my life he was probably you know he's the first famous person i knew your own brother his and i used to play music growing up so i was just like playing music now we got a new record i got a new right you have to talk about the record we will i'm hey i'm not i'm not here for my health i'm here to promote um so he he was a concept record yeah but he um he was, you know, I was in the bands, and he was, like, you know, kind of tagging along. Right.

You played in rock bands when you were a kid? Yeah. Like, how old are you? I'm 41. So, all right, so you and your two brothers are growing up, little Jews in Lexington, Kentucky. Yeah. Your younger brother, obviously, the more disciplined one.

They were both, they were both, my middle, the, he My middle, he went to Columbia in New York, which is not really a cool rock star. Although I guess some... No, smart people go to Brown. The more artier ones usually come from Brown. But he's Ivy League educated. Yeah, and the youngest brother went to good school, and I was the one who was like the hopeless.

Can't your brother play a lot of instruments? Oh, yeah, he plays... On the the albums he plays most of the instruments yeah but he's by a bass player by nature um i think he ended up playing he switches around live on stage i think he ended up playing bass mostly live because that was the hardest is he a wizard though is he like a guitar wizard? Yeah, I would say my brother's best quality, other than being gay, is, which has helped me a lot. How has that helped you a lot? I've just met a lot of cool gay guys. You know, I wouldn't have met those guys without them.

He's really good. He has like the perfect right brain, left brain thing where he can fix... His first record was one of the first... His first record sold... I don't want to brag for him. We're here to talk about me. His first record sold like 3 million copies in England alone, which means...

A lot. It means everyone bought it twice. Yeah. But that first record, he engineered it. He kind of built the computer that it played on, but also co-wrote the songs with his buddy Jason, who's the singer. So he has what I don't have,

which is he can kind of do the technical stuff and the creative stuff. Well, I think if you're like me, or if your anxiety is at a certain point, is just thinking about doing the technical stuff is just exhausting. I can't take a nap just thinking about it. Well, I was like, you know what?

Everyone's doing these podcasts. I'm going to do a podcast. So I spent like two days, and I recorded the song, the Ben Hoffman podcast, Ben Hoffman. And I sent the song around to all my friends. I'm like, what do you think? And they're like, where's the podcast?

We're like, we don't want the song. Because then I realized all I wanted was the theme song. I theme song like i don't want to fucking do a podcast so like i spent all the time like that was the cool part for me so i never really song yeah and they're because i was wanting them to go like that's fucking badass yeah so did you do it on garage band no i my brother taught me how to use um pro tools what's the mac pro tools the logic because i called i was in kentucky which you know in the 90s lexington's nice it's horses there it's a horse town right i'm a jewish i'm allergic to horses how are you not allergic to horses i swear to god you mean like mentally allergic or really like i would go to the races with my friend and i would swell up i mean

like my friends and their parents were already anti-semitic enough And then I show up at the horse races with them And I like start swelling I'm like Like the whiny fucking Jew I swear to god I can't go to the horse races I spent my summers as a farm hand

And I would like just load up on Claritin And I actually was back home recently How much is this bullshit? I swear this is all fucking real. You want Barry Ezra's number? I'll give it to you. He was the guy who ran the farm, and I ran to him recently. He said, like, I never told you, because there's Jewish farmers there.

Sure. And he's like, I never told you, because your parents are friends of mine, but you were the worst farmhand we've ever had. Like, it wasn't even close. How old were you? That was probably 14. So he was doing your parents a favor, gave you a job. Two summers in a row, I was a farmhand.

But, like, what did you do? What was Ben? My specialty was weed eating. You know what that is? Yeah. So that was your specialty. That was my specialty. You could do that.

Because one of the few things I could fucking do. And then me and my buddy John, one of the other Jews in town. This is mainly Jewish. Right jewish employee to farm and uh we would go out and we would just hide because the farm is so big yeah that we could you could see them coming for a mile so we would just hide and like talk about like the new uh you know guns and roses record or whatever it was i've done i've done that and then when you see him coming you like get up. The best one of all was that pic that I only thought was in cartoons, and you would go out on the street, and you would pick up all the trash. Yeah, with the nail on top?

With the nail on top. I thought that was made up. I think I made one of those, because I thought it was the coolest thing I ever saw. But the fun part about that is you would see, it was on the highway, so you would see all the crazy shit. That people would throw away? Like all Polaroids and shit like that. Yeah, there was so much shit back then.

That was actually, that was the one part, like I could have seen myself doing that for a living. I just don't know if it was full time. Picking shit? Yeah. Well, there was sort of a mystery to it when things, there was more interesting things to throw away. Well, compared to like mowing or like feeding horses.

Things that people had to get out of the car quickly. Yeah, exactly. And then I remember one time we did see the two guys in like the, you know, the orange suits like walking the other way. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I'm getting paid a lot more than you do. Well, yeah, you could get that job. You just have to do something really wrong. Yeah, exactly.

But it was weird to be like, I thought I'm on the right path, but I'm doing... The same thing that guy. The same dude. the punishment for prison. The convicts are doing. Where'd you go to college? Did you go to college? I went off to, I went to two years at Tulane in New Orleans. Oh, yeah, that's good.

Then I came back to finish at Kentucky. Kentucky State or something? Just University of Kentucky. Yeah? You couldn't handle New Orleans? I was just a... I just wasn't ready for college, I don't think. What'd you freak out?

Were you one of those guys? Did you have to go to the doctor? Well, I think it was when all this neuroses kind of started, and then I'm away from home, and, you know, like... How did it manifest itself? Just real neurosis. And then, of course, you know... But you get there, and you're like, what were you studying? Were you, like, were you...... Just re-on the road. And then, of course, you know... But you get there and you're like,

what were you studying? Were you like... I didn't fuck... I was just so low. I didn't know what the fuck I wanted to do. So you're one of those guys that... Basically, my parents met at Tulane. Okay.

So in high school, I was like... Someone had told me like if you're like... What's it called? Legacy? You can get it. It's easier to get into a school. I'm like, oh, I'll just apply there. And then I can get it out of the way. It's just like yeah i'll just get in really fast and i have to think i

didn't think think about it i went there i'm like what the what the fuck am i doing and it was very strange school was like you know because i was i was thought of there as a hick yeah you know like some dude from kentucky and i'm like fuck i drove 12 hours due south to get here you asshole it's all these jersey and New York kind of guys and I remember my mom would leave me messages on the machine

and they're like you know Benjamin you know give me a call and they're like ah your mom's a redneck I'm like

we're in fucking Louisiana oh because of the southern voice the southern accent yeah back in the answer machine I remember my brother said he had the same issue at Columbia

I remember him telling me once that some of the people in the dorm, I'd never heard of this one before, they said that, he's like,

back before cell phones, he goes, your phone bills must be crazy. And he's like, why? He's like, because you talk

so slow. Really? And I guess I've lost my accent. I don't hear it really. A little, very little. I don't drink much

when I do. I guess it comes out a little bit. Does it? But came out on this record, I'll lost my accent. I don't hear it really. A little. Very little. I don't drink much, but when I do, I guess it comes out a little bit. Does it? But it came out on this record, I'll tell you that. I think it's an important career shift. Moving into country music. Yeah. That was my goal all along.

That was the point of this. That's what this fucking show was for. The show was a way to get into music. The Ben show was just on the way to music. Oh, no. we we did get caught off there so anyway the it was called the ben show but then there was a magician in canada who had a magic show called the ben show yeah and they're like oh no that's that's a legal problem like comedy central said can't do it i'm like the show we we went to the ben show website this guy this magician the magic it had like 50 views

probably all Comedy Central lawyers and he ends the show by saying have a good afternoon yeah it's a daytime magic show

live anyway so they made me call it the Ben show with Ben Hoffman which is like the most pretentious it's like

I don't need my name in it once much less so all then all of a sudden it's like became, you know, like my name fucking everywhere. But how long ago was that? The Ben show was? I was 30, 39. 39.

So, okay. I'm 41 now. You're 41. So what the fuck? Or 38 when I got it. And well, I think the, I would say my first eight years in L.A. was like. So you were here eight years before the Venn Show? Yeah.

Well, I was going to say, I think my first eight years, it took me like eight years to get to step one. And then like step one. That's about right, though. That's about right. But I'm saying then I skipped like five, you know, then I was working on sports show with Norm MacDonald. But wait, so where do you, okay, so you finished up college in Kentucky,

and you majored in what? I think it ended up being like journalism, advertising, whatever was the... I remember whatever the... Whatever you could cobble together at the end? Whatever these credits do, and they're like, how about advertising? I was like, oh, cool, you get to work with cameras.

Yeah. It's not really the same, you know. So you graduate college, and your parents are like, so what now? I had no fucking clue. Did they say that? Because it seems like there's a big gap. I moved here when I was 25.

Okay, all right. But when you left Kentucky. I left Kentucky and then. Were your parents like, it's okay, Ben. No, no, no. I don't remember it's okay. Listen, I love my parents and we get along really well, but it's okay, Ben, was not. I don't remember that phrase.

But I remember, so after college, I was literally okay, Ben was not, I don't remember that phrase. But I remember, so after college, I was literally like, I do not know what the fuck to do. Yeah. Because I didn't know anything about, you know, I was like, what's the job you want? I'm a rock star. I'd love to do that. Where do you apply for that? I still have a $20 guitar. If I'd know my fucking brother could do it, I probably would have gone for it.

But I remember some friends moved out to Portland, had a house in Portland, and it was like the rooms for like 250 bucks a room. Yeah. I was like, fuck, let's, Portland. That's where I was meant to be, out west. That lasted about six months. You went to Portland? What happened there? So wait, let's get back to something.

So, and then, because I just want to, I want to know better, because you have a fairly consistent demeanor here on the mic. Yeah. But at some point, that fragmented at some point. Yeah. I mean, even when I lose my mind, I'm pretty mellow about it.

Really? Yeah. But when you say you went to college, because when I went to college freshman year, I was pretty fucking lost. And you end up hanging around with a lot of different people to try and find yourself. Or were you more isolating? Did you find a clique of dudes? No, I was like, that was when I-

Did you write for the paper? I had no, I had nothing. I was like, oh, I'll just get fucked up and hang. Oh, so you, what, booze? Mainly booze. I mean, I remember I did, I'm just too neurotic for those. I remember I did mushrooms once. Yeah.

And decided, I remember being at a porta potty, outside a porta potty during Mardi Gras and deciding that, I remember looking up at the sky, I was like, Lord, and I'm not a religious person, if you get me out of this, I will pay you back by becoming a rabbi. That was your mushroom experience? That was my mushroom experience. So I woke up the next morning and I was like, I mean, of course, talking to the wall, like, listen, you don't want me to become a rabbi.

I don't want to be a rabbi. Let's forget this happened. I'm okay now. Yeah, I'm fine. Like, let's just, I won't touch drugs. You know, psychedelics are not my thing. I like that you came down and still felt you needed to renegotiate. No, I came down.

I was like, I said some stuff last night that I shouldn't have said. But also, there's no world that wants me. And also the idea that whatever my brain thought that becoming a rabbi would even it out. Yeah. It's so weird. But I remember just, if you're going to try psychedelics,

Mardi Gras is not the place. Shit, no, man. I remember this guy, I remember I took i took i only tripped during the day like i couldn't i couldn't handle it that well it's not my thing because i hate it well like i don't have a i didn't have a strong enough sense of self to begin with so expanding that it just amplifies the vulnerability and you know you just like feel like you're well that's what everyone says like it'll expand your mind i was like it's like i want to shrink my mind. I need to tighten it up.

I'm so fucking lost. And I'm thinking about so much crazy shit. Yeah, right. And then you just go way out there. Like one time I took mushrooms by myself in New York at night. And all the other times I'd done it was during the day with friends. Where you're like, let's go outside. And it was okay.

You could carry yourself. But like, I was just by myself at night. And I'm'm gonna go out and i'm like oh no it's just evil everywhere so you're in tulane for two years you lose your shit a little bit or you just didn't know what the fuck you're doing you go back to kentucky so your parents are there so at least you have some familiarity do my laundry right and then you did your laundry at your parents house or your mom actually did it for you no she stopped doing my laundry when I was like 10. But you tried to convince yourself that you were living your own life, I guess, a little bit? Or were they still supporting the confusion?

No, then after Kentucky, like six months in Portland, then I came. It was all these starts and stops. What happened in Portland, though? That must have been a- It was just like, nothing bad happened. That was really when it was like, I got to figure out what this shit is. So you're just living in a group house with a bunch of fucking stoners, and people are trying to figure shit out? I mean, my buddy, who I'm still friends with, he's like a city planner now.

In Portland? And then he just moved to Seattle. He's doing city planning there. So he got a real job? Yeah, a couple of those guys got real jobs. A couple, who knows where they are. And then I... I just love that group housing.

Like people, like not everybody lives that thing where you're just sort of like, I'm just going to move into this place with all these freaks. You don't really know them. Yeah, well, I had like, exactly. I had like one friend there and the other four just like... Like, what the fuck is happening? Who are the fuck are they?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And where's my food? And then when you get your own place after that. Yeah. It's fucking heaven. It's heaven. And then you just sort of like, well, now what do I do? That was my problem.

You get your own place and it's like, this is sad too. Like I liked having my own place in New York, but like I remember just napping a lot. Yeah, I get. A lot of napping. It gets kind of depressing, but I just remember being so excited. Like it's my place and nobody peed in the water or, you know. Yeah, yeah. it's kind of depressing, but I just remember being so excited like it's my place And nobody nobody peed in the water or you know yeah, yeah, and that was Chicago Well, then I yeah, then I moved to Chicago. Then I was like that's what I was like

I'm gonna try this comedy thing out. Okay, so I start taking class at Second City, but not stand-up necessarily just I've never done stand-up. I've did stand-up ten times in my life. So you go to cut okay So you go to Chicago because of what? What inspires you? What did you see? Well, you know, I was just like, all these, like, what am I going to do? And I was like, I've always loved, you know, and I hate to sound like too much of a, you know, hayseed, but, like, in Kentucky, like, I don't really even know that these jobs, like, I'm not stupid.

I know the different strokes isn't an improv show. But the idea that, like, you can write the, like, because I wanted to be a writer, some sort of writer. I was like, but I can not, like, I know I'm not, like, a novelist. Right. So. I'm still laughing about the renegotiation with God. Like, I said some things. I wonder if he's still, I wonder if I still owe him.

I would assume I'm in the clear now, right? But just the idea that I'll be a rabbi if you get me through this, and then the next day you're like, you know, that was some crazy talk. Well, that's my thing, too, is when people offer me drugs, I'm like, no. Because last time I did it, I decided to become a rabbi. I don't want any drug that makes me want to become a rabbi. At the time, it sounded like a good... What's so crazy is at the time, it sounded like a good idea.

You could see yourself as a rabbi. I actually literally could see myself as a rabbi. You're going to use this horrible experience. Well, then I could teach other people not to go down the path I took. And I would have been the worst fucking rabbi of all time. All right, so you know that you're not a novelist and you knew that Different Strokes wasn't an improv show, right? Yes.

So you had some sense. So I'm like, but I can write. I know that. So I was like, why don't I take classes at Second City? And then I could kind of learn, not as wanting to be a performer, but kind of learning just some kind of experience. You know, I'm with some great teachers. Who did you teach?

Who were the teachers? A bunch of guys who were on. But I remember going down to see the show. It must have been from their breaks from Essendon. Like seeing Tina Fey and Rachel Dratch and all that. They were there? On stage. Yeah, on the stage, not in the classes.

They were there? On stage, yeah. On the stage, not in the classes. And what happened with me was a girl in my class, it's like, do you want to audition? She's like, I work at an advertising firm. Do you want to audition to be an extra in a commercial? I'm like, well, what's it pay? She's like, 100 bucks.

I was like, I'll never have to work again. Yeah, sounds great. And I go audition to be an extra, and I got the lead in the commercial, which was not, I mean. Local commercial? It was actually a national commercial. What commercial?

It was a radio station, but they put whatever, like K-Rock, but whatever city, they would change the station thing. I was like, that's all I got to do to be in. I was like, I got some checks in the mail'm like where do they where's more of this yeah and then i started doing second city out in uh out here did you do the whole program uh most well i halfway through it is when i had this realization that i could actually be in commercials like i that's the perfect plan. I'll do my writing during the day, and then I'll fucking do commercials.

And you've probably done these commercials before. Never did. You never did? I think I auditioned for one or two, and I was like, eh. I mean, I was awful at it, but when you need this Jewish love, I could kind of do that. Right. Well, no, yeah, they like the everyman guy.

I don't know. I don't fit anything. I'm just like this. Well, I didn't really. But I also got in a lot of, I remember getting, my thing was I didn't, and it was not a put on,

I really didn't give a shit. I was just like, like I would go to an audition and there'd be like, you know, for like, Carl's Jr. and there's like 12 burgers there.

Like, we need you to eat this burger while you're smiling. Look like you like it. And I'm like, this burger's been sitting out all fucking day. I'm not eating this fucking thing. Yeah. I was like, I'll eat it if I book the commercial. Like, no, no, we need to see you eating the burger now And I'm like, this burger's been sitting out all fucking day. I'm not eating this fucking thing. Yeah.

I was like, I'll eat it if I book the commercial. Like, no, no, we need to see you eating the burger now. I was like, I'll just eat the bun. This meat has been sitting here. Right.

The germaphobe steps in. I'm not eating this. He's like, if you don't eat the burger, you're not, you can't audition. Well, I go, like, you know,

fuck this, fuck this burger, fuck you, I'm out. And then I get a call like, we like his attitude. Maybe he's the guy who won't eat the burger, but then he talks it you know so like i was like working on my uh

writing during the day but the commercial stuff kind of can make you lazy because you can make enough to pay your bills yeah but not enough to like live long you know like today i'm gonna go out i'm gonna go to the library and write a screenplay and stop by the mailbox there's like eight grand from some like wendy's commercial and you're like you know what i'm gonna take a nap first yeah because i'm good for a few months and then i'll go back so you leave chicago with the big uh with the commercial money you drive out 600 bucks in my pocket yeah you drive out drive out with my nissan Altima in the back. Yeah. And you live with who? I got my own, I had one person I knew here,

which is my cousin's cousin, who wasn't officially related to me. I'd never met her before, but she's like, there's an opening in my building. It wasn't that expensive in West Hollywood. And I'm like, I'm here to fucking make it. Yeah. And 10 years later, I did for eight weeks.

10 years later, I got a billboard on Sunset Boulevard that was up for a week. That means something. I had one, too. It was very exciting. I fought for it. My epic special. I was like, they're like, billboards aren't that effective. And I'm like, can you just put one in the city where show business is? That is the point of the billboard.

Yeah. It's not about promotion. There's no fucking billboards for movies where I grew up. There's billboards for furniture stores. Yeah. But it is. I would say that billboard probably helped my career more than anything because people are like, you go to meetings now,

they're like, oh, yeah. Joke past your thing. Yeah, yeah. Because they joke. It's only for themselves. Yeah. I just wanted it. To me, it was sort of like i just want to be um validated you know on that level i want i wanted

to see a billboard and uh they put one up there and and i don't think anybody watches special the billboard it is a big move because i remember my brother was in town so we got we drove up to it and like he took takes a picture and then of course people driving down sunset or like making fun of you that's why i remember this one guy goes hey you fucking loser you never a billboard before like no i never had the fuck have you like he was like yeah it's like you loser it wasn't yeah with the billboard of course i'm surprised i'm not here every night taking pictures uh but so you move into west hollywood and you got the big plan and you and then i was gonna sign up over at the improv and then i was like gonna start you know i wanted to be a comedy writer and then i just start working or you know it's a hard but you did commercials did commercials

and that got you by that got me by you save some money from that i mean did you make a lot of money i didn't make a lot i mean i had some day jobs here and there. Like, I was, like, to age myself. I remember there was a, you know, not. You already said your age, so. Yeah, but I guess naming my age ages myself. Yeah. But I had a job at, you know, like on your show where you grab all that generic music from that service. It used to be that they would, you actually have to call, like, you know, and get it on a CD.

Yeah. I stocked those CDs at, like, people would call like i'm making a horror film and uh i need some horror music it's like we've got 10 horror cds filled with horror music ben will grab them and he'll send a messenger over to you and get them for you that guy you fucking asshole this sounds like yeah like son of music this is bull you know yeah yeah i'll send you some new stuff sir you know that was like the stock boy at the. The music wholesale place. The music wholesale place, which is now basically a website.

Yeah, yeah. So I was going to say they lost tons of jobs, but they really only lost my job. Yeah. So I did that, and then. It's so weird the jobs you get when you're in show, like when you're starting out in show business. Like the first time I came out here, I got a job, what do you call it when you write synopsises of screenplays?

Like they just give you a stack of screenplays and you're just supposed to write a synopsis. You would think it'd be awesome. I put too much personality in them. In a weird turn. And a decision I would not have made. Yeah, exactly. It was for like Canon Films back when that was around.

It is true. Those jobs, because especially, you know, Albuquerque. There are jobs that people get you. But Albuquerque or Kentucky, like the fact that this job, because I remember, so that my cousin's cousin, who I didn't even know. I think it's actually called a script reader yeah which to me that was a job i would have died for but i my cousin's

cousin had a friend who i didn't know she's like i was like i need a job just a job you know something to pay the bills and she's like oh i used to work on the you know production company i can get you a job as an assistant on some right you know this new um oh yeah i did pa work eddie murphy robert de niro film i was like you know that'd be awesome i actually get to see a film set i get to see cameras and learn things so i go they're like your appointment to meet is like um one o'clock at warner like i get to go in the warner brothers exciting that first time you do that it's crazy so I go there and I walk up to the woman. She's like, any friend of Elise's is a friend of mine.

And I just smile. I don't know who Elise is. It's a friend of a friend's of a friend. I don't know who she is. I love her. She's great. So I didn't know that knowing her, quote unquote knowing her, got me past like five different things. So literally i'm waiting eight hours at warner

brothers for this interview and i don't know it was just i think it's an assistant job just ask me whatever yeah and again true story they're like all right and they're just like we just you need to sign off from this guy bob and like this guy bob's like what the fuck is this guy bob he's it's been eight hours yeah and they finally bring me in it's like bob can meet you now i go in there robert de niro get out of here i swear to god it was to be his personal assistant right and i'm you know how like when you're so on the movie on the movie i'd never had i was so thrown off by seeing ro De Niro in person in 3D that I was so relaxed. Because I remember he's like, I was like, I'll just be yourself.

Do not lie. Just be yourself. He'll appreciate that. He's like, do you have any personal assistant experience? I'm like, no. He's like, are you good with children? I'm like, no. He's like, I've got dogs.

Could you take care of the dogs? I'm like, no no i'm really bad with dogs and and he i noticed he starts laughing and stuff and he starts he's like i'm interviewing the least qualified person i've like how the fuck because because of this elise person i got through the gates right and he just starts cracking up and he's like like what could like if you could like like if i need batteries on sets could you go buy them and i was like i get i mean i don't really know my way i just moved here i don't know my way around he's and he goes what do you want to do i go i want to make movies but then i thought to myself

i was like fuck they don't think i'm using them right and i made i made some he goes have you made any i go i've made some short films and he's like how were they so that's when i hit me like you know don't you know yeah be self-deprecating. I go, they're the worst things you've ever seen, sir. And that's when he loses it. And he's just like, so nice to meet you. He's laughing? He's cracking up.

And the next day I get a call from the woman who's like his go-to guy, go-to woman. And she's like, I just want to say, Bob wanted me. Like, we usually don't call when you don't get that. But like, Bob wanted me to call you because he loved you so much, but we have never met anyone less qualified for this job than you. You have zero of the, like he was basically, because he thought you were funny, like he was trying to help you get the job, like can you take care, and I kept saying no because like, you know, can you drive a stick shift?

Because I guess he, I was like, no. care and I kept saying no because like you know can you drive a stick shift because I guess he I was like I was like no it's like everything he said I said no to to try to be like he'll appreciate my honesty at some point you gotta lie that you can do something right so but like those are the jobs that always like and I remember one time someone I went to a temp agency and they called me up it was like a showbiz temp agency and they're like do you want to work for we got a job at Tim Burton's production company I'm like oh fuck yeah big tim burton fan we'd love to you know yeah be a pa there i go i notice it's kind of like a residential place like this is weird and i go it's a fucking this really nice condo and i walk in and it's just and it's his wife at the time

girlfriend lisa marie she's like do you know how to wrap presents i'm like no it's his wife at the time, her girlfriend, Lisa Marie. She's like, do you know how to wrap presents? I'm like, no. I was like, I'll teach you. I was in his fucking condo wrapping presents. She's like, and I remember delivering them to like Johnny Ramone. I remember Nicholas Cage's like Jew eating dogs outside, like tried to attack. I was like, you just hire a temp to wrap your presents and then go deliver them to all the major stars?

But even then, it was so exciting. I'm just calling my friends back home. I was just at Nicolas Cage's house. Did you see Nicolas Cage? No, I think he'd been warned. So what was that, like a few days, that job? I think it was two days, yeah. I learned how to wrap presents.

Delivered them to all of Tim Burton's friends, and then it was just a seasonal job. He doesn't have presents the year round. So when, what would you consider your big break? I mean, so you're kicking around, you're writing shit, and you're doing improv? Well, then I got a job kind of writing and being a correspondent on this,

what I consider Al Gore's tax write-off, which was that current TV channel. Sure, I remember when that happened because I was at Air America. So was that 2006? Yeah, around then. And then Madeline, who co-created the Daily Show, co-created...

Madeline Smithberg? Smithberg created the show that was supposed to be the young, hip Daily Show. Oh, I kind of remember this, dude. And it be the young hip daily show I can't remember this dude and it was neither of those things I can't remember this some executive came in

like either there was an aberration or our ratings went way up last week and I remember and then the next week they're like

it was an aberration what was it we had a.00 the ratings were a zero because then I then I got in trouble because I had I had a plan for them.

I'm like, listen, it was right around those new HDs, TVs. I was like, listen, just try this. From eight to nine, you air color bars. You put out ads that like channel 142 or whatever it was, that's the station you turn to, to like adjust your TV. Like, that's funny. You you know that would at least get people to know in their brain like and see if the ratings just see if the ratings go up this is for current though so they have an agenda and they have an agenda and their sense of humor is very i'm trying

to do comedy didn't work but my big leading to my big break was i to me was my big break was uh how many shows did you do though i was there for a couple years at current yeah doing that show that was a it was a gig i mean it was so you were hosting it hosting and right i mean that's actually in fairness i learned a lot i mean i was editing my own pieces writing them you know what was it called it's called infomania that's when i was like i i that's when i really kind of bug i'm like in my early mid like this is enough with the Joker like I gotta get a fucking job like I

came out here with I want to do good shit but you learned on that show I learned a lot and then made a living made a living and I got my writing my stuff over to sports show with Norm McDonald and Norm hired me on that show and that

was like like that was what kind of started that was a network show that was the comedy central yeah but it was like that was when i was like because in my head i was always like listen i'm not the smartest or the funniest you know but i think if i'm in the room with the best smartest funniest people i can keep up yeah like i don't think i'm the you know i just think i just need an opportunity just to be around these people and see if i can keep up and that was and you know everyone wants to write for norm and he's the funniest to me the funniest fucking guy ever and you know you get going from current tv to like, I'm sharing an office with Steve O'Donnell, who ran Letterman for 13 years, and Jeff Martin, who Simpsons, Letterman, Conan, and Frank Sebastiano. All these guys who I know the credits because I watch all these shows. Holy shit.

And I'm not at their level, but i'm not getting laughed at right so that was kind of my big laughed at the wrong way correct yeah i was like i'm not getting the most but i can i can i i'm one of the gang you know like i'm not the you could you could hang i could hang and i could get stuff on i could make myself useful enough to get stuff on the air. And you got on camera, too, right? And then I got on camera, and then Comedy Central's like, if you ever want to do a pilot, we'll talk about it. And then I went in, and I told them about this idea for a pilot,

and they gave me 50 grand to make a pilot, which, as you know, is like craft service money. But anyway, so I was just like, but then I met met, you know, Mike Gibbons, who co-hosts with the Fitz. So he, he co-created Tosh and I'd met him on Norm's show. Yeah. He co-ran that. And now he was like, yeah, let's just, he's like for 50 grand, you don't have to talk

to them. You don't have to listen to them. Right. We'll go make whatever the fuck you want to make. I'm like, okay. Yeah. And we made this fucking crazy. That was the one with the one with the where you go to the therapist yeah i mean we and it was just like me and like girls who dumped me and like it was just kind of

my real life mixed with kind of i was trying to do a narrative sketch show showing my real life and we turned it in and they they were like they thought it was a joke. They're like, they thought they'd been, it was x-rayed and it was so dirty. Yeah. And it was one of those things where like kind of the assistants around them started picking it up and laughing. It was like, oh, this is really funny.

And then again, when they were done, I was like, I get, you know. You did what, 14, 13? Fuck, 14. What am I, Rockefeller? No, I did eight you know. You did what, 14, 13? Fuck, 14. What am I, Rockefeller? No, I did eight. Yeah. And, you know, we had no lead in or anything.

I mean, the ratings weren't awful, but they let me know it was not a ratings decision. It was like, we don't want this on TV. But they were really cool about it. Did it come down to you and Nathan? I think it, you know what? I hate to say that because I love Nathan's show and Nathan's a friend, but I wish they hadn't told me. But, yeah, it was like they told me.

We've only got room for one on the street Jew. We can only have one Jew walk in the streets with a camera per L.A. law. But I think, you know, it was the right decision. His show is so great that it's hard to argue with that decision. He just has like a, that's like a show with a clear point of view and like a thing where mine was just kind of me dicking around. Yeah. So it kind of made sense. And again, when they, I did a pilot for them six months after my show.

What was that? I actually, you know, I don't want to throw names. But so Danny McBride and his whole gang were fans of the show and they're like he had this idea actually I thought

this was a really funny pilot he had this idea where like I had a talk show where I had lost my TV show I had to move back

in with my parents move into my parents basement yeah and have to celebrities come over it was called Sleeping with Ben

and it was really weird. I mean, it was like much weirder than I'm explaining and they're like, we want you back on the air. We want to do it and then they watched it

and they're like, I think we're good. You know, I think we're okay. I think we've had enough off. But I still, I mean, I did a couple,

you know, wrote on some of the roast and some of the other shit like that too. So you're still on good terms? I'm still on good terms. Giving me the show was a much bigger deal than

taking it away and getting that show led to a lot of I was going to say a lot of cool stuff a lot of cool stuff they did in there well let's talk about the album it's so funny maybe I wasn't paying attention

that you'd been pitched but I get a lot of CDs from a lot of different record places just out of nowhere. Oh, sure. And I saw this one and I'm like, is this guy related to Jerry Jaffer? What the fuck? Because I get you.

Well, this was the first, because I'm only doing press for this album in character. And then when LeBeau called about this, I'm like, I'm not doing this. I like the show. It'd be a long hour. It'd be a long hour, but also as a fan of the show, I barely want to listen to me as me,

much less listen to me in this character. So Wheeler Walker Jr., the album is redneck shit. Yeah. So let's play it as if, just out of curiosity. Here was the idea. But I'd like to talk to the character for a minute.

It's really just me with a little bit of a, it's too embarrassing. That's the thing, too, is like I don't want to do it in character because it's really just me. Have you done any of that press for radio? Oh, tons, yeah, yeah. Not tons, but yeah, yeah. We've done, like, we just played with David Allen Coe in Nashville. Oh, you did?

Yeah. No, but I do. And you put on the getup? No, I go to podcasts in that getup. And then they come afterwards. They're like, hey, Ben. I'm like, I don't know who you're talking about. I just really enjoy fucking with people, I guess.

Yeah. But the album itself is, I mean, listen, you can read the song titles and know it's a comedy record. Right, right. But it's a legit I love country music I mean obviously I grew up in the south and grew up

who were your guys? I it's funny the guys who produced it and played with me on the record had kind of the same trajectory as me which is you know

you grow up with it Waylon and all those guys around then you go through your rock phase right then you kind of move away and you're like fuck I'll fucking you miss it? then one of your hipster buddies puts on Waylon and all those guys around then you go through your rock phase right then you kind of move away and you're like fuck I'll fucking then one of your hipster buddies puts on Waylon like

fuck you motherfucker like my uncle lives down the street you know like yeah yeah yeah so you know I just love Waylon and Willie and you know I love the Leuven brothers old stuff and Everly brothers and um I was listening to so much George Jones George Jones is one of my favorites He's the best He's produced George Jones The guy who produced this Produced George Jones? Well Dave Cobb is the producer I don't want to get him

In too much trouble He's probably the hottest Country producer out there Not a joke He did That new Chris Stapleton record And did Sturgill Simpson

And Jason Isbell And all those guys I love that All those guys I love And I met him Through some people Yeah And i was like i've always wanted to make a country record like a legit country record but obviously it's gonna come out as comedy if i do it and i played him some demos and he's like let's fucking do it

like he was just like i was expecting it almost freaked me out too much like he i was like yeah like maybe it's i've got the wrong dave cobb or something like maybe it's a me out too much like he i was like yeah like maybe it's i've got the wrong dave cobb or something like maybe it's a scam and i'm like well i'm gonna be in nashville on thanksgiving if you can do it for a few days there so like i grabbed his his kind of go-to band who are now buddies of mine they they played on sturgill's first record shooters old band some of these guys tour with jamie johnson they played with will i mean they played with george all these guys they played with all these and they're the best are they old guys they're around i mean they were younger when they played you know with the older guys but they're

you know around our age kind of um and the best musicians i've ever heard and i went to the studio it's the first thing i've ever done where i walked out and it was like this is better than i thought like this is a fucking killer country album right like what the fuck just happened because you know like i said it is a comedy record don't get me wrong but i really do have such a passion for country music no i listen to it it's like it it sounds like a country record it is a country that's what and even some of the titles i mean it's just you just, you know. There's one called, like, I Can't Fuck You Off My Mind. Like, that's just, I Can't Drink You Off My Mind.

We just kind of, you know. Yeah, you know, fucking someone out of your heart is, I've said that before. Yeah, and so it's like, I just love country music so much. And I was like, it wasn't really my plan when I went into it. I was like, obviously I just wanted to make, I wanted to make, like, the most legit comedy. Right. Authentic country comedy record ever made.

But the character, so, you know, when you go out and you're performing it. Yeah. And you go. I'm just now starting to, yeah. And you go out with the hat and how's that feel? Great? It's so much fucking fun. Because I'm, I'd always, I always was envious

of like you guys who had your stand up. You can go do your thing, whatever you want and I go play these shows and I got the cowboy and I'm like, yeah,

fuck you and it's like this attitude, this, all the stuff building up inside. Obviously, this is, this is the therapist part. There's all this fuck you

and like, fuck mainstream country, fuck, because I do get pissed when I hear this kind of mainstream country slop and I hear, and also because of, country, fuck, because I do get pissed when I hear this kind of mainstream country slop. Uh-huh. And I hear, and also because of, it's also weird for me too,

like I said, having all the family back in Nashville. I grew up with this kind of, Nashville was a fucking ghost town, and now it's the hippest place. Yeah. Now it's hipsterville. Yeah. And I go back there, and these dumps are, you know, two grand a month, and like, it's kind of a new town.

It's really slick stuff. And I'm like, there are some people doing, you know, what I consider real country, but there's not that much of it. It's like, what if I could do both? What if I can make a country record and a comedy? What if I can make a comedy record, but actually make it legit country? I mean, do it with these guys who are playing on my, and making my favorite country right now. So what's the plan then? The plan is well, this is really,

I mean, my guess is that the fans that we're marketing this to, none of the, it's like this is a whole different, it's really going to, Mojo's been playing a lot on Outlaw Country. So it's really like we're doing it legit country.

We're doing country venues. So you'll play a whole set. You playing guitar? I play guitar and sing. I mean, that was the part I was self-conscious about was my vocals. And he's like, no, sounds good. And then you get into the argument, too,

of like, what is authentic country? Because I'm in the studio there, and like, these guys, you know, to them, I'm this guy from Hollywood who came out and made a record. I mean, we're friends now. But the first day or two, it was like the studio guys and the, you know, they're like, this guy's from a TV show comes out to make this record. Right.

I'm like, we're literally out that window is the high school my mom went to. Yeah. Like, you're from fucking uh ohio yeah like what the fuck you fuck it like what is all you know right like these guys who put on their cowboy hats and uh actually there was one really good art because i'm trying not to use my real name in the shit but one guy wrote a really good article about kind of like why is this any less authentic than regular like these guys aren't actually cowboys that you're what you know yeah yeah yeah so that's kind of the joke to it too but if the goal was to make it and we want to do a comedy

special see what happens with that but the goal was to make it you know as legitimate and real and good sounding yeah yeah record yeah if it works on both levels and right now the majority i don't think it's really made for the comedy crowd because i don't know if they listen to this type of music my my concern or not even concern was like who did because it's really made for the comedy crowd because I don't know if they listen to this type of music. My concern, or not even concern, was like, who did... Because it's not really a novelty record. It's a dirty country record, which has been done before at different points of time

as novelty records by country performers, but you're doing a whole other thing. Well, that was the thing. First of all, the whole thing was... It's like everything I do. It's like when I go... I was in the studio. I was listening to the... We're listening back was the thing. First of all, the whole thing was, it's like everything I do. It's like when I go, I was in the studio. I was listening to the, we're listening back to the Masters.

Yeah. And I'm like, this is so fucking catchy. And plus it's so funny. Yeah. Like, it's for everybody. Then, of course. It's people's music. It was the same thing when I did my show.

It was like, this is for everyone. Yeah. This is going to be the biggest fucking thing in the world. Did you write Watch Black Women Hug? Black Women Hug? Yeah, yeah. That's funny. I recorded that on my Logic at home. Yeah. It's going to be the biggest fucking thing in the world. Did you write Watch Black Women Hug? Black Women Hug? Yeah, yeah. That's funny.

I recorded that on my Logic at home. Yeah. And then I came home. I'm like, this type of country music isn't played on the radio. Right. And comedy people really aren't. And then I'm like, fuck. Who the fuck is that? I just did something.

No one's heard it. I did it out of pure passion because I literally paid for the record. This label's putting it out, but I own the master. Right. It's like, I could put a stop to it right now. Right. Which the government may make me do. Yeah, it's racy stuff. But I was like, this is something I want to do and I'm going to do it and it's going to

sell a million copies. First of all, nobody sells. Well, I did a billboard interview in character, and I promised in the interview as Wheeler Walker Jr. that my video was going to get more views than Adele. Yeah. We lost that by about 100 million. Yeah.

But, you know, like that kind of brash. You did a music video, though? Yeah, we've done two now. I'm just more curious. I just can't wait to get the album out because I just want to see people's reaction, but I also want, I'm hoping there will be some sort of reaction. Is it released already?

February 12th. Oh, yeah? So my main goal, the only thing I care about is, and I've heard it a couple times, and I don't give a fuck hearing about it, but there's like, oh, it's some fucking dude from Jersey

coming down making fun of us Southerners, just because you don't know. It's so weird because you've had it both ways. Yeah. It's weird being, I think, a Jew in a way and being in culture a certain way, but just like the kind of flack you got at Tulane,

now the Southerners, you're afraid, are going to put that on you? Exactly. But you're not from Jersey. Exactly. Well, I'm just saying they don't know. They just think it's some guy

in a costume. So it's some Hollywood dude. But in no way, it's not making fun of the South. It's really done out of passion for country music. I just love this form of music that's going away.

And it's so, I mean, it's like, you know, like Sturgill's still doing it and Jason, those guys, but it's really, I mean, the guy,, you know, like Sturgill's still doing it and Jason, those guys, but it's really,

I mean, the guy, I mean, Merle's left, Willie's left, there's not, Billy Joe's still around. There's not much of those guys around.

No, there aren't. And I wanted to do a record, like I said, I wanted, as a musician, my whole life, you're the same way,

you're a musician. It's like, what if I could do, and then you get the excuse of saying, oh, it you know right but but you know and also like there's something about the nature of a stage persona and a character and and that was a fun part for me and a performing outfit i mean i guess the the real difference is is that you know this may this music may not be far from your heart but the the character itself, there was a time where those type of guys, like even Jerry Jeff or Waylon at certain points, of this certain kind of borderline outlaw character, that they were earnest and they were really that guy. Yeah.

They lived that life. So I think the only real mockery would be in that you created this character to honor those guys, not necessarily to make fun of them, but you're not that guy. Exactly. Well, but also, were they, I mean, they were certainly more outlawed than me. No, I get it. But they weren't going around shooting people. No, no, no, no. But you know what I mean. I know, but I know what you're saying.

What sold that, and this doesn't look like this character is essentially this is sort of a like a newer version but you know it's not it's not chris whalen and willie and and uh you know yeah it's it kind of sounding a little i was listening to to so much george jones at the time that i think i think i'm ripping off george. That's good. That's a real clean production. But when you try to rip off someone who's that out of reach, it kind of comes off as original because you can't. Right. Well, the interesting thing about George Jones is he was even more fucked up than

his character. Like, you know, he was sort of like a mainstream country guy who didn't wear a cowboy hat, wore a suit and whatnot, but he was fucking crazy drunk man, genius. How many ditches did he drive off? The tractor?

The tractor story is great. A bunch. Yeah. But, you know, it's funny because I think the thing that makes it really different is that you're not seeking to make fun of the form. You're actually seeking to embrace it in the way that you are capable of doing it. Well, a couple of people who i won't name who in nashville are just like listen you've got to like you've got to go for it like

nashville's become so shitty you're the guy you're gonna go out there and talk about and you're gonna you know you're gonna wipe these people off the map i was like but fuck you bitch i'm getting played on you know k90 or whatever you know it. So it'd be great if one could break through. Well, one, I talked to a couple of stations. It's so political, though. Couple of stations that when they bleep it, there's nothing left. You know, it's just like. Sure.

Well, that might have been a little short-sighted on your part. Well, I wasn't thinking that. I was just, I'm an outlaw. I was at the time. I'm just thinking. I'm thinking the best. You live in it. But it was funny, funny too because i was down there and i was you know again listening to playback and i'm looking at the musicians i'm like isn't it a bummer that like if i just made clean versions of this they're so catchy that they get play on the radio and they all look at me at the same time they're like have you fucking heard

country radio recently right it's fucking millie's fucking Milli Vanilli with Twang. No, it's almost like Def Leppard. Def Leppard's a good example where it's just like, oh, he's got one arm, we'll just figure it out. Well, it's just this mainstream kind of rock riffs from the 80s. And again, a lot of it's hip hop, kind of. Some of it, yeah, it's wild. Some of the country producers I know

actually had some interesting conversations with them. Just keep, their whole thing is like- Like who, Mutt Lang? Were you talking to Mutt Lang? I've not spoken with Mutt Lang yet. But these guys are just like, because the really good producers in Nashville, they still know all the Bowie and Eno.

Sure, of course. They know all that shit. They're musicians. And they're like- And they've also had rock guys go down there and use their musicians for years okay I mean Dylan did it and the Stones did it and you know I mean that was his best records was those national yeah yeah yeah um but they're just like these electron these sounds they're used their whole thing is like these sounds that the new country guys are using are 20 years old like there's new stuff out there

you know it's not like they're they're not mixing lcd sound system with country they're mixing like fucking millie vanille you know like the old and it just sounds like fucking garbage and there's really no place to hear this type of music anymore well thank god you're championing it ben yeah well that's what i'm here for and you're uh you're okay you're making a living making a living we We'll see. Got a woman? Don't have a woman. That's kind of the main issue if you were to talk to my parents. Sure. That they're kind of upset about. When's that going to happen?

Once I kind of get my career in order. So probably 65. Sure. That sounds about right. Medicine? No medicine? Am I on medicine? Yeah.

Oh. Do you want to do another hour? I don't know if we have that kind of time. But you're properly medicated? I'm properly, it's all... Living your life? It's all prescribed. I got a new thing where the company sends it to your house. Don't have to go to Rite Aid anymore.

Oh, really? Oh, good. You on for the anxiety and the OCD? Anxiety and OCD. Anxiety is really the main issue I'm dealing with. Me too. What do you take? I take Klonopin when needed.

Oh, see, I can't do that. Why? Because I'm a fucking drug addict. I don't find it- There'd be no reason not to take Klonopin eventually. Well, I find it doesn't- Yeah, I mean, of all my maladies I was talking about, I really did get lucky,

because I know a lot of friends who've gone down this road. I just don't have that... The addiction thing? I don't have the addiction thing. So when you take a Klonopin, what's it good for, six hours or so? Yeah, it lasts... I'm really sensitive to it, so it lasts actually a little longer for me.

But I don't... You know, like, we played that... We opened up for David Allen Co. This is an example a month ago, and I had a bunch of friends in Nashville and family. Let's go out and party. Drank all night. Haven't drank since. Didn't drink in a month.

I just got lucky. Be careful with the Klonopin and the drinking. Yeah, I don't mix them. I was like, I've got to have my Klonopin the day before. I plan my drinking. Sure. I have to plan. But I just realized, no, I haven't had a drink.

I just got lucky that I... Quantum pen and booze, that's an instant blackout recipe. You'll lose about four hours. Well, one of my buddies was on at least that, because he definitely... It was funny, too. I was at that Fogarty concert. Oh, yeah.

A buddy of mine blacked out. That's true. Lost it, huh? He lost it, but I don't know why it just came into my head, but he brought... I mean, this was kind of a no-brainer joke but it always makes me laugh and he was fucked up and fogarty brought his son out to play guitar enough you remember and he just looks over me he goes fortunate son and he go-to joke but it made me it made me that was a good one so now all right well let's uh

let's figure this out so you own the rights to these songs. Yep. And this is your record. So theoretically, which is something we don't get to do on this show very often because of labels and whatnot, we can play a song, I think. You can play whatever the fuck you want. We can play it on this show. I own the publishing. I own the, yeah.

Which one should we play if we're going to give people a taste of this thing? You want a ballad? You want a... I want the one that is most heartfelt for you ben or should i call you wheeler the most heartfelt one everyone says is fuck you bitch uh huh um that's got a real nice country production sound to it want to play the hit yeah hit the hit in quotes fuck you bitch play fuck you Play fuck you, bitch. All right. Well, thanks for talking, Ben. Thanks for having me, man.

It's been a blast. It's been a blast. You say we're done. You packed up your stuff. It's really over, said you've had enough There's one thing I'd like to say Before you leave Fuck you bitch, you broke my heart Fuck your friends, tearing us apart

Fuck your dog, hope he never comes home Fuck you bitch, hope you wind up alone now you're gone and I'm by myself jerking off the to pictures on the cell. But before I swipe on your face, I just scream. Fuck you, bitch.

You broke my heart Fuck your friends for tearing us apart Fuck your dog, hope he never comes home Fuck you bitch, hope you wind up alone The word is out, you found someone new Well, I hope he does it for you But if not, then you call me up Darling, please Fuck you, bitch

You broke my heart Fuck your friends For tearing us apart Fuck your dog Hope he never comes home Fuck you bitch Hope you wind up alone Fuck you bitch

Hope you wind up alone All right, so that's our show. I guess there's really no reason for me to play. We just had a song. I hope you enjoyed that. I enjoyed it. I like talking to Ben. Go buy that Wheeler Walker Jr. record, man. It's the hottest thing in country music right now.

The debut album, Redneck Shit, comes out tomorrow, February 12th. Okay, so now you know that. So yeah, go to WTFpod.com for all your WTF pod needs. Get on the mailing list. Pick up a poster if you want it. Do what you got to do. Comment through Facebook. Check my schedule. I do have a

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