WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 682 - Herb Alpert / Mark & Jay Duplass

Episode Date: February 18, 2016

Herb Alpert had enormous success as a musician and recording artist before becoming a massively influential recording industry executive when he co-founded A&M Records. Herb’s talks to Marc about the past and explains why he’s still recording music, touring, and playing that famous trumpet. Also on the show, Mark and Jay Duplass stop by to talk about the new season of Togetherness on HBO. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category,

and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gate! Alright, let's do this. How are you what the fuckers, what the fuck buddies, what the fucking ears, what the fuckadelics, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies?

What the fucking ears? What the fuckadelics? What's happening? I am Mark Maron. This is my show, WTF. Thank you for joining me. Welcome. Welcome.

I'm out in my garage sweating after a long day shooting Maron, my TV show that will be on IFC in May. This is the fourth season spent today working with Joey Diaz. Just me and the doctor, Joey Diaz. Exciting. It's been very fun. I've heard, I know that all three seasons of the Marin show are on Netflix. But in other me news, I believe that my special, my epic special more

later will be on Amazon Prime and perhaps Hulu beginning in March, March 3rd-ish. That's my understanding. What about today? What about today's show? What is happening today? about today's show what is happening today well today i talked to herb alpert herb alpert from herb alpert and the tijuana brass and uh and a and m records i don't know where you grew up or what your parents were like or how old you are necessarily but uh my uh my my parents had herb alpert and the tijuana brass taste of honey album and i just looked at the cover and i'm like who the hell is that dude that dude's got something going on and then of course there's the famous whipped cream and other delights cover that everybody is familiar with but you may not know his music but his career as a um the creator of a label and and

and a a producer is vast he's he's a major force in modern American music, and he was available. He came up in conversation. I'm like, sure, I'll talk to Herb Alpert. I mean, that guy's one of the big guys. I like talking to the big guys with stories. So that's happening today. Also, the Duplass brothers, Mark and the J. Duplass, are going to come in and talk to me for a while.

And they are a very talented and charismatic duo doing a lot of stuff. They have a little empire, a little filmmaking empire, those Duplasses, film and TV. Hard to not resent them, but they're such likable guys. Well, that just might be me i will say this um if you're avoiding or ignoring or dismissing or not making time for the coen brothers latest movie hail caesar you're out of your fucking mind you You're misled. You've prejudged based on garbage. And look, I don't know them. I don't, you know, they've never wanted to come on my show.

They don't, I know this is not a paid promotion, but I'm an incredibly big fan of the Coen brothers, as are most people who like good film these guys really are probably if not the best american filmmakers that we have in the top five or four and i've been with them since the beginning and i've been through some of their more difficult movies but the one thing you know about the coens is that you're probably gonna have to see it again maybe two or three times i've been you know i've seen most of them i'm blood simple i remember when that came out i was like what and then raising arizona miller's crossing

barton fink barton fink one of the greatest movies ever made and oddly this new film hail caesar sort of picks up where barton Fink left off in a way. Like you can draw a comparison to that. But this movie, Hail Caesar, is one of the tightest, deep movies that the Coens have ever made. Rich in levels of interpretation. I mean, it just is all there. I can't even begin to tell you how upset I was. And look, everyone's entitled to their opinion. But if you really love film and you are

really engaged on in anywhere in your past or in your heart or in your mind with the history of cinema, there's no way you can't like this movie. I guess I'm aggravated because I was led to believe that it was a mediocre Coen Brothers film. Obviously, nothing that they do is bad, but sometimes you have expectations and sometimes not unlike a Paul Thomas Anderson movie where you're like, well, maybe I missed something. And you're talking to a guy where you're not talking to a guy. You're listening to a guy. I'm not a big Lebowski guy. I've watched that movie four or five times. I want to feel what the cult of big Lebowski feels, but've watched that movie four or five times. I want to feel what the cult

of big Lebowski feels, but I'm, I'm not that guy for me. Fargo was genius. Raising Arizona genius. I mean, I, you know, I, I liked the Hudsucker proxy. I loved Miller's crossing. Barton Fink for me is a, one of the best. Oh brother, where art thou? I loved it. Man who wasn't there. I even liked, uh, no country for old men i fucking saw that six times i'm gonna see it again right now i might even turn it on while i'm talking to you burn after reading didn't love it but that was a minor issue with malkovich wasn't the cohen's fault serious man one of my favorite movies ever i would have to say a serious man no country for old men barton fink really in fargo in that order but hail caesar this is the

what's the word apotheosis is that the word this is the apotheosis i hope it's a word of everything the coens have done and people were dismissing it as like being fragmented or a mishmash are you out of your fucking mind i mean i went in there knowing that a lot you know i i you know put it out i asked on twitter my resource for the uh the general opinion and it was very it was divided but a lot of people were like it's a mishmash uh it's fragmented uh it's just a series of cameos it's uh the story's not there and it's like are you out of your fucking mind so i went in there kind of nervous but excited to see a coen's brother movie i'm always excited to see a coen brothers movie and i watched that movie and i sat there for two hours and right away i was like oh

no this is fucking gene this is fucking genius this is fucking good and that is it's going on i'm like oh shit this might be the best one this might be and that feeling of elation while watching a movie everything was there for me now again this is just my opinion but again if you have an appreciation for the history of movies and for for what can be done with a film and and smart films i mean this is the fucking movie i don't know who the fuck doesn't give this movie a chance and look i get excited about things but it just seemed like to call it a mishmash or fragmented or lacking story or just a a series of cameos one dude even said like yeah there yeah, there was these non sequitur dance sequences. This was the Coen's celebrating movies.

I mean, there are bits and pieces. First, you got Josh Brolin, this beautifully working class, flawed character who is a studio overseer, a fixer, but more of a lot manager and also a troubleshooter. But he's Catholic and he's, you know, things weigh heavy on him. And he is a morally not challenged guy, but he's a thoughtful guy. He's a man of faith. And throughout the movie, you know, there is an ongoing struggle with quitting smoking. But then there becomes there is this big sort of moral struggle that actually happens in the midst of him producing a film about Jesus Christ and also having to manage, you know, several problems with actors and shifting an actor who is primarily a

Western, a cowboy actor who didn't, wasn't used to talking into, into a different type of picture. Then you have this, this side story where these communist writers kidnapped George Clooney. And where does that go? And it was one of the best depictions of why and how the writers in Hollywood became attracted to communism, to the ideas of communism. And it was really about payment and about work and about the nature of capitalism. And in the middle of all this, you have Josh Brolin's character, who is just balancing all of this and trying to do the right thing by himself, for himself, and for the studio, and for movies, which as you watch the film, he believes deeply in. He's like the Jesus figure of this film.

And if you move with him through these stories and through the primary story which is really about you know whether or not he makes a decision and you know there's engagements with the priests there's confessionals there's a meeting with the devil you may not be able to identify the devil right away but he's definitely the devil. There's a, you know, when the three primary working forces in the film are Catholicism and a man's moral struggle and a man's burden of carrying the weight of the studio and the personalities within it and the future of the movies themselves.

And yet, what does he choose to do in the end? What do movies really mean? What do movies really mean? What do they really give to people? It's a movie about the levels of work and about creativity and about making something and about certain elements of class and also about the insipid disposition of some actors, but the genius disposition of others. But the greatest thing about the film is that it celebrates the history of movies. It shows you all the different jobs on a soundstage. It shows you a soundstage in general.

It shows you a fully executed and choreographed musical sequence. And it shows you a fully executed and choreographed aquatic ballet sequence. It shows you a fully executed and choreographed old-timey Western stunt writer sequence. And it shows you the making of almost like a Noel Coward-ish film. And the reason they spend time on this is that when you get as much distance as we have from those types of films when they were made, and if you studied film or you saw those films, if you were fortunate enough to see those types of movies in a movie theater and really understand the elation and excitement they

can create you know even like even the western they did these things perfectly there was a slight tinge of satire to them but they honored the genre and they showed you why they were amazing they humanized the history of film by showing what went into making the film and then by showing the execution and the beauty of what those films were trying to do that was all going on throughout this story you know what do movies mean what is the power of film and it was actually the the same movie studio that was in barton think i believe it's capital pictures what i'm telling you is I am still thinking about this film three days later because the levels of of interpretation and um sort of uh speculation and and the levels of of emotional philosophical and uh cinematic depth that is possible when you look at it I still can't wrap my brain around a lot of it but all i all i know is you got it all in there you got it all in there love hate good evil uh

dedication commitment work trust and comedy and and some deep comedy but i one of the things that i i read a lot was people basically saying like it wasn't the movie that i was led to believe i was going to see from the trailer who gives a fuck grow up grow the fuck up it's a coen brothers movie so what it wasn't a slapstick comedy it wasn't really that funny how do you go into a coen brothers movie how do you just take it in on a surface level how do you not allow your mind and your heart? How do you not allow them to open up and engage with guys who are at the top of their game and completely in control of their craft and are deeply philosophical and intellectual and beautifully constructed

cinematically and script-wise? How do you dismiss that? There's something about the culture today that you know maybe i'm an old man but for someone just to dismiss something like you know like hell caesar it's like no go reckon with it geniuses made it i don't know about hbo vinyl scorsese made a two-hour piece of film for a television project it's scorsese who the fuck are you to just be like give it more than that jesus i guess i like the movie i guess that's what i'm saying i would like to talk to the coen brothers by the way if anyone knows them uh look folks mark and jay duplass the duplass brothers the infamous duplass brothers the now infamous Duplass brothers, the now famous Duplass brothers, makers of film and television. They have a new season of their show, Togetherness, which premieres this Sunday on HBO.

Their animated show, Animals, is currently airing on HBO. I play a rat in that, I believe. So now I'm going to talk to him right here in the garage. Me and Mark and Jay Duplass. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls,

yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Calgary is a city built by innovators. Innovation is in the city's DNA. And it's with this pedigree that bright minds and future thinking problem solvers are tackling some

of the world's greatest challenges from right here in Calgary. From cleaner energy, safe and secure food, efficient movement of goods and people, and better health solutions, Calgary's visionaries are turning heads around the globe, across all sectors, each and every day. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look how at calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com. A quick thing before we get started. Yeah. Dried fruit. A lot of dried we get started. Yeah. Dried fruit.

A lot of dried fruit at lunch. So are you saying that you're going to gas? I'm going to try not to. I'm going to try to hold. But that's not what you're supposed to do in here. You're supposed to release. But it's like a threat. It was.

It was a little bit of like... Now it's sort of like a punchline. I wouldn't call it a threat. I would call it a power play. A power play, yeah. Okay, so it's a power play, but at some point that just means like two other guys go like,

oh, fuck. Yeah, and then I lose all my power. That's why I'm holding this knife. It's a one-er. You're the guy who farted. Yeah. All right, so the Brothers Duplass, I mean, was it hard to take 10

fucking minutes out of doing you know a dozen projects to come over here i'm am i starting with the wrong attitude no no it was the truth is it was hard mark maron it was hard we talked about it we talked about your worth uh-huh we talked about your energy and whether we want to allow you into our lives i mean what how big of a reach does WTF really have now? Yeah. We checked your star meter. Yeah, we checked your star meter. How is my star meter?

It didn't cut it. No, I'm sure it wouldn't. I don't know. What is the star meter? Is that a site you can go to? Is that on Timberdose? On IMDB Pro. IMDB.

You can check people's star meter. Holy star meter that tells you how hot they are. Oh, God damn it. In a given instant. What's your number? I don't fucking know, dude. And you know what? They make you green when you're on the rise, but when you're not doing so well and the bloom is coming off of you, they put you red.

I think I got the... Oh, 5,447. Right between our predictions. That's great. What is that? It's a great star meter. It's a good number? I guess it's a lot higher for you, so that'll tell you something.

Yeah, I guess a little lower, but that's okay. I'm gaining the advantage now. Fuck both of you. Hold on a second. Fucking smart ass. Let's see where our star meters are at. Let's see where the smart ass Duplass brothers are. You guys checked right before you got here.

We wouldn't have brought up the star meter if we didn't feel checked i know actor producer writer mark dupas all right what's mark got i mean it's probably good it's not it's not good you may maybe if you fart maybe i guess i might get that if you fart right now watch those numbers just go up 24 Yeah, that's a little on the lower side for me. Oh. Wow. You might want to retract that statement. Oh, yes. That's a little on the lower side for, oh, and you too, 2,842, Jay. You know, I was really, this was sort of an ego boost for me. I feel pretty good about myself.

I just beat the, I've almost doubled, I'm two Duplass brothers. No, that's Higher is worse Oh it is? Higher is lower Oh so I'm Like Jennifer Lawrence Is like number three

Oh so I'm not that good then You guys are better Like I was all excited But your show Is just starting to But you're down this week Just by the way I am?

Yeah you're down Down this week No I mean What am I gonna do You guys are on television And you're in a global, Golden Globe winning thing. Aren't you on television? Yeah, but it's not real television.

I was on your television show one time. Yeah, how was the feedback on that? Remember when I came in? How was the feedback on that? And we shot a scene. You were up 17 this week, by the way. That's not bad. 17.

Nice work. Yeah, we shot a scene in the fake garage. It took about 22 minutes to shoot. Yeah, you were in and out. It was great. My show does good on the Netflix a year later, but I'm happy. I'm okay with that star meter.

That's like our movies. That's our whole career. It does good on the Netflix later on. Well, that's where it's at, but no, it must do okay on the HBO. Do you get numbers on HBO for the togetherness? We do, but they don't mean anything anymore. That has been a benefit for people like us, I find,

because as long as you're trying to skate under the radar yeah if your shows are like well reviewed and yeah generally like them i think you get picked up on hbo but we're not bringing in massive numbers on togetherness i watched it and at certain points i found it upsetting let's talk about it well i mean it was good but uh i think there's reasonable depictions of the strains of, I don't know. What it is, it's what grown-ups look like now. Yeah. Do you know, like, there was a different time where grown-ups looked different, but you guys look like grown-ups.

Some version of them. Which is really weird. What are you, 40-something? I am 39. Come on, Mark. You know what? You're not going to lose any points. How old are you?

Exactly. He's going to Come on, Mark. You know what? You're not going to lose any points. How old are you? Exactly. He's going to lose points, man. Emotionally, I'm like 46, but my body's 39. But there's not a lot of depiction, honest depictions of people of your ilk and your age and your class that are really kind of relentless. Yeah. Like there's some sad moments. The genius, the funny guy, what's that guy's name?

Steve Zissis. Steve Zissis. Our high school buddy. Yeah, I don't know where you found that guy, but boy, he's funny. He is funny, isn't he? We grew up with that mofo. We went to high school with him.

And was he always an actor? He's always been an actor. However, he has not always been known. And that was like part of our genesis of the creation well so he's playing he's playing his he's playing him in a way he's playing a version of himself we're looking in the world yeah and you i'm sure this happens in the comedy world all the time but we got a guy pushing 40 yeah who is a god i mean that that guy was he always has been and has never lost it just so so funny, so dark, so tragic.

And you see him sort of like, is this guy going to die with all of his magic inside of him? You know, and so you see this like black star dying and you're like, you want to shine light on it. So you've known him that long and it got rough for him in real life. Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah.

Because he seems to be pretty comfortable with the darkness. Oh yeah. He seems with it. You can't manufacture that. He would do very well in this room here. Sure. I he seems to be pretty comfortable with the darkness. Oh, yeah. He says with it. You can't manufacture that. He would do very well in this room here. Sure. I'd love to have him. So he's a genius.

Amanda Peete doing comedy. Great. She's hilarious. Yeah. I mean, in season two, she really gets to stretch. Really? We do this fun thing where after we're done with all of our episodes, we invite a group of people in and we watch them all in a row to just check and see if we fucked anything up and yes anything

up and and in terms of where the characters are yeah where the characters are going what people wanted to see you know whatever you make eight episodes kind of in a microcosm you're like let me see these in a row right does it all work and yeah and we laid them all out and and and it was kind of consistently shocking people walking out of the room being like, I haven't seen Amanda do anything like that before. I've never seen her do anything. She always plays like, she's always a little dangerous. She's a little dangerous in this too, but there's a humility to it.

Like there's a desperation to her character, along with like, she's hurting that guy. What's his name, Steve? Steve. She's hurting Steve, and that hurts me, which is one of the reasons why the series was difficult. Yeah. Like why she keep hurting that guy.

When does this wet up? Why does he keep showing back up? What's the pain all of that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you're, but it's sort of funny cause he can shoulder that.

Yeah. And they do seem to love each other somehow. Whereas the couple with you and Linsky, that love seems strained. Whereas the unrequited love of the two clowns, that seems like it's it's undeniable it's right pretty yeah yeah some pure beauty in that we had a lot of questioning too it was like um how how is how's this gonna work like how are people gonna believe that a guy like

steve yeah that a girl like pete would be even interested in hanging out with a guy like steve and because he no one knew who he was or whatever. And then he showed up and started doing his thing. And then it started to flip. It was like, why is he even hanging around? This guy's pure magic. And then later on we brought, I mean, this has been an incredible thing for Mark and me. It's like, I mean, Amanda walked into the room and we weren't sure.

You know, we've all seen, been watching her forever. Yeah. And she started dragging him around the room and beating the crap out of him in the audition, like in the first 30 seconds. And they had this electric chemistry going on. Well, she's a bully. She was, she was a bully.

But then we start, we, when we're hanging out with her and we're doing scenes, like every week we hang out with her, that girl has more going on. Like she's got more, you were saying this the other day, like she's, uh, she's, you Every week we hang out with her, that girl has more going on. Like she's got, you were saying this the other day, like she's raised Upper East Side in New York. She's like classically educated in Columbia, extremely intelligent, gorgeous. She has the sense of humor of a 12-year-old boy. It's just her and fart noises all day long from Video village wait so you're gonna see her later is that

why you ate the fruit that's why i ate the fruit i built it all up for her we are going to her birthday party tonight oh are you good stuff yeah oh good yeah i want you to announce that right when you get there that it could happen dried fruit party dried fruit at 1 p.m makes for a great party favorite 7 30 dry fruits good man. Are you concerned with your bowels? No, no, no. Are you hung up on it? Somebody gifted me with dried fruit, and I'm an eating maniac. And so I was just in the office working, and there was dried fruit in front of me.

And I just ate about, like, 18 dried pears. And so, you know, we'll just see what happens. But you're not a guy that's hung up on that yet? Like, you know, I got to eat some fiber? No, no. But I do think, Jay and I think about energy a lot. And we think about like,

how can we have more energy to do what we want to do? Should we be working out more? Jay and I are- Really, you have this discussion? Ridiculous emotional eaters. Yeah, there's no stop button. Well, you grew up with it, right? We grew up in New Orleans, just eating.

Yeah. Eating and loving food. I mean, it's insane that we're thin. Yeah, it is kind of. It's insane and not likable, really, from where I'm sitting. It can be annoying. The guy's complaining about how much they eat, but are not heavy at all. But we work our asses off.

We work out all the time. You do? Just pretty much so we can keep eating. So we can keep eating. But it's weird. People see us on set, and we're big stress eaters, big eaters it's hard when you're on set and shit and when you're working oh in the office even it's impossible not to eat constantly and especially when you have your own show like this is one thing like we've been loving this tv thing but when you like

carry a whole when you're like the daddy of a whole universe right it's not that fun right it's hard as shit it's fulfilling yeah but it's people are like

oh is it fun you guys just look like you're smoking doobers back no we're killing ourselves every second of the day let's clear this up

we never smoke weed on set everybody thinks we smoke weed on set no we really don't smoke weed actually when it comes down to it no we don't smoke weed it's okay Everybody thinks we smoke weed on set. No. We really don't smoke weed actually when it comes down to it that much. No, we don't smoke weed.

It's okay to smoke a little weed occasionally. We, every time we smoke weed we're like, we should smoke more weed. And you don't. And we don't because we're like

ruthlessly efficient with ourselves. It wouldn't be good if the brothers were like, oh dude, you didn't do it? No, I told you. Yeah, exactly. There's no cameras yeah there's no

cameras so there's no cameras we're off yeah it's true but how does it work so you guys write the show together and then how does it work on set because i know you both wear all the hats producer director occasionally but you're the actor in this but you are getting a lot of attention for your acting and transparent i thought you're very good by the way thanks very much i don't need to tell him. He knows. I get tired of telling Mark that he's good in everything. Yeah.

Because he's in everything. There's a thing on now, right now, while we're talking. Let's talk about me. Let's talk about me and my acting. What's the matter? Do you feel left out? I think we should talk about what do you do when you have two brothers in a room and you want to compliment them both and you have to be careful with who you're complimenting. Do you have any anxiety about that?

Do you have any feelings about that? No, I'd like to see. I'm trying to get you to turn. What I need is you. By the way, everybody needs to know that Jay and I are on the other side of the table from Mark Maron here. And the most apparent object is there is an enormous knife sitting right between me and Jay.

I believe you could maybe call it a Bowie knife. But what is this thing? It's a knife. I just have stuff where it's always interesting to me to see what people choose to fidget with. A knife, a hammer. It looks like a mushroom. What do you call that? Everybody be quiet.

Anybody know what that is? What do you call those? Hand exerciser? I don't know. It's one of these things that you clamp exercise. It's a hand squeezer. It's what Matthew Modine uses in Vision Quest to work out before he wrestles shoes. That's right.

But how does the work break down? What do you do? Well, it's different on every project. The real honest truth of it is that Jay and I are- We drive ourselves really, really hard. We're both anxious and we're both a little depressive and sad people. And so we get beat up. Is that true?

Yeah. So we show up on set. Yeah. And we kind of look at it. I mean, just look at our eyes. Yeah. I know you know this thing. Well, he seems like a pretty sweet guy.

You seem to, like he seems to be, Jay seems a little more comfortable with his vulnerability and his sensitivity. You seem to put a lot of energy into keeping the party going. I do a ton of energy towards that. It's true. That's what I called it? Incredible amount of energy. I'm so tired, Mark.

We talk about it a lot. I'm so tired. Mark does a lot of driving, and I do a lot of quality control. Okay. I do a lot of watching. Yeah. But honestly, we both, this is of quality control. Okay. I do a lot of watching. Yeah. But honestly, we both, this is the interesting part.

Yeah. Probably this is the, honestly, if we're totally just cutting to what's going on with us. Hold on, let's cut to it. Cut to it. Door opens. When you work together

the way that we have for our whole lives, not just 20 years of movies and music, I mean like 30 years of just like, you know, making, staying. The job of being brothers music. I mean, like 30 years of just like, you know, making. The job of being brother. The job of being brothers and making shit together. And what happens is, is you become two parts of the same being. Yeah.

And that is awesome for making art. It's awesome for like making a TV show, being a director. Like directing is too much. Right. It's too much for anybody. Right. Right. Like all directors get crazy by the time they're 50 because it's too much.

So we share a lot of those things. But the problem that happens is that we become the same person. You even go to the same party. And like the way we talk about it is like one person is like doing the Duplass persona. And if he's doing that, okay, I'm going to just lay back over here for a little bit you know what i mean because like we were curated in the same household like we and mark is a little more type a and i'm a little more type b but on any given day or if i go by myself i get more type a and more probably gets and you're not even twins and we're not we're worse than twins yeah it's a weird thing and we talk about that a lot, which is like you're older. Uh, Jay's older by three and a half years.

And so I just look older cause I drive all the time. Right. So when you got the camera going, you're both sort of like, Mark, come here, Jay, come here.

You know, who's usually, you know, watching the, the takes. Well, he's acting. So you gotta be mostly at the,

if he's acting, I mostly watch, but I, you know, honestly, we have all these credits on IMDb Pro, but we're just brothers who make stuff. That is truly how it is.

Everybody wears all the hats. We wear all the hats, and it's really, it's not like our tourist, like the Coen brothers. We tried to be the Coen brothers. We wanted to be them, and we failed miserably. Why'd you fail? Because they created a singular form of telling stories and you can't beat the Coen brothers at being the Coen brothers.

That's a core difference too. This was like us in film school in the early 2000s. But you guys did a lot of stuff together. Because the Coen brothers are very, you guys are driven, but they're very meticulous. I imagine that every- They have such clear vision from what we understand like they see the whole movie in their head before they show up on set

storyboards like 95 and then they just they just walk the movie through whereas all of our filmmaking happens right on the set very organic in the moment like a therapy session right we're improvising we're trying things we're getting upset and nervous because it's not working we have a breakthrough holy shit this is so exciting get the it wasn't even a script let's go get it you know it's very organic I guess it's like trying to capture energetic light like the best version of what this scene can be in this moment with the people we got and where we're at yeah we know what the scene is supposed to be so let's just like see what happened that's become your style I mean that's what you're known for now but with the scene's supposed to be, so let's just see what happens. And that's become your style.

I mean, that's what you're known for. But with the TV, you've got to write scripts, right? We write scripts for everything. There's a script for everything. We just veer off of the script a lot to get stuff that's more organic. But to your question of who's doing what role, it's actually harder for us to pinpoint that because on any given day,

someone can be more excited, more ready to drive, a little more anxious a little more depressed and then you know i remember the front of season two i was really tired and down and like i was like i don't know if i'm gonna make it through this thing and jake came up and started driving and it was like so great that i had somebody like helping to carry me through it and then jay got bronchitis and started tanking and i was like okay here i come i'm gonna start driving now. And that's just this weird sine cosine wave of like.

And the people on set know this is the way it works. They kind of feel it out from us. And also, you know, we have relationships with the actors. We have different relationships with actors. Sometimes we find that one of us, it's easier for us to talk to somebody or just understand what they're going through. Or about certain kinds of things too. But you're in a lot

of the scenes though too. Yes. So on a big emotional scene like in our fourth episode of the first season where we have that, you know, sex in the hotel

and it's like really rough. Jay is very clearly in the creative driver's seat there. Right. We have conversations after the takes. We make sure it's on the rails but I'm kind of like,

dude, I'm out. Well, you got to be in the thing tell me what to do can't be all like that on the set i mean you got to be in the scene you can't be like that on the camera especially the way we shoot he has to be able to just be let let anything happen right basically now when when you say you get all down what what the fuck was going on were you tired yeah most like biological mental most of it from stuff most of it for us is i would say a combination of just being kind of at our core people who are desperately driven to and compelled to do this stuff that we do and that we can't quite figure out that might take a long time but we are driven to come up this mountain yeah keep making stuff and the ideas come and we do it and then there's just another part of us that is like i would say slightly bipolar um you know i i personally take

depression medication to keep me even keel yeah from crashing the work? Oh, 10 years. 10 years? Which one? Which one? I take Celexa, which is like a lower dose of it. Right. And it's like a compression system for me that like, it keeps me from going nuts and it also is a little net under my ass

when I'm like, I drive myself too hard, I fuck myself up, I fall down and it kind of catches me. Well, that's nice that it works for you. Yeah. And some people it does, some people it doesn't.

This has been something that works for me. But it sounds like it's been working for the long haul. Big time. And Jay and I both have just a little bit of that, I don't know if it's just an artist thing or just in our chemistry. We just like- Oh, yeah. What are you going to do?

We feel deeply in the world and we just get, we tank a lot. We feel a lot of things. I don't let myself go, I don't seem to go down, but I get anxious. Yeah. And overwhelmed. That's my thing. Like, I'll just, like, I don't have the depression because I don't let it. I grew up with the depressive.

Yeah. So there's some part of me that's hypervigilant about like, I'm not going to be him. I'm not doing that. Yeah. Well, there's. It's going to slip out sideways in an anxious way. There's a whole theory that like anxiety and depression are the same thing. Right.

I believe that. That basically, you know, type A people don't really get depressed because when that thing, that feeling that comes to you actually turns you towards anxiety because you fight against it. Right. But then like if you get too anxious, then, you know, phase two is the like the paralysis. Yes. That's the tank. Right. But then like if you get too anxious, then you know, phase two is the like the paralysis. Yes. That's the tank. Yeah. And it's like for me, that's that reveals itself as exhaustion. Yeah.

More than darkness. Yeah. Thank God. That's a nice brand. So, okay. So that's something to look forward to. Let's talk about the other projects. You were great on Transparent, as I said. I've not seen you act. Perhaps you were in some of your older movies. No. I haven't seen them all. This is my first acting job. Really?

Yeah. It was great. You play a Jew. Yeah. And it's sort of a challenging, disturbing character. He's very different from me. Yeah, you guys play shit very different than me. He's a total dick.

Yeah. I mean, he has... Is he a dick or is he broken? He has more sex in the first two episodes than you've had in your entire life. It's true. Let's face that. Good for you. How'd that feel? Sex with's true. Let's face that. Good for you. How'd that feel?

Sex with more people. Yeah. Sex with more people. Yes. Yeah, it's really different and fun. And it's weird to be 40 and find a whole new thing that I like to do, which doesn't seem that different. It's very adjacent to writing and directing, but it is nothing like writing and directing.

You let the scene eater here take up all the screen time. The baby gets to do what he wants. The baby gets to do what he wants. The baby gets to do what he wants. Everybody's like, well, why didn't you do this sooner? And the answer, I swear to God, is since we had the double Panasonic VHS camera, I was three and a half, in 1980. Yeah. I was three and a half.

In 1983. In 1982. I was three years older. I knew how to operate it. Yeah. And so Mark would act and I would shoot. And literally up until Togetherness, I've been shooting physically and Mark has been acting.

So although our friends have encouraged me to try it, it's just never been, I'm literally behind the camera now did you just go with your gut on it or did you talk to mark about it or did you like it's weird because i talked to actors on especially people like me who come about it through you know i didn't train to be an actor yeah yeah you didn't either nope none of us did we're i think all three of us share a thing where like we were maybe like writers, makers of stuff that accidentally fell into it. But it's interesting because with togetherness, you make some pretty solid choices to temper some of your shit into a real character. You structured that thing, you know, and I've seen you do it in Lin's movies.

I've seen you do it in some of your movies. Like, you know how to like for me, I'll just, you know, what do I have to turn down? You know, like which part of me do i turn down but like sometimes you kind of becomes a different character right yeah now what and that's just a natural ability so what did you sort of employ well the guy's so different from me and the stuff he says and the stuff he does is so different so you want to write from the script i just went straight in and just went full blast. I got lucky because my roommate in

college was a guy named Lee Cohen who's a Jew from Chicago. I spent four years with him. He looks exactly like me. Everyone thought we were twins in college. He is a music manager. He managed Dandy Warhol's. Am I saying too much about Lee Cohen right now? Yeah, you are. I am totally.

Hey, Lee Cohen. What's up, dude? Just know we love you. We've always loved you in town right now. I'm actually seeing him tomorrow. And so I kind of channeled him like he has this stuff. Yeah, I did tell him that I even talked to him about it before. Yeah, I talked to him about it before. I was like, dude, I'm going to pull you into this thing. Yeah, I'm doing this whole new thing. And it's like deep Eastside Jew thing. And I got for it and you know i just want to kind of have your blessing you know and he was like yeah yeah absolutely go for it wow so lee helped you out yeah and the dandy warhols for a while thank you lee cohen dandy warhols but but uh you guys have a lot going on and togetherness is uh february 21st and then you're working on the third season and you have a

movie in development for netflix a couple more movies are making for netflix i'm available for a small part in any of those films excellent is that a you got something for me great talking to you guys love wait what was your star meter again five thousand yeah we got something we got something small for you yeah what if i get my what if i get my star meter up to yours if you get your star meter again? 5,000. Yeah, we got something small for you. We got something good for you. What if I get my star meter up to yours? If you get your star meter up to 2,600, come talk to us. All right. Thanks, fellas.

Workers. They're workers. I like to do plot flutters. That's the first time I met Jay, and I liked him. I was glad that his brother let him talk. I don't even know where to start with Herb Alpert, in terms of if you don't know who he is. This guy is a legend, a fucking legend in the music biz.

I mean, you may have known about Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass. You may have heard of A Taste of Honey. of a taste of honey and all, you know, he's had, he's had so many fucking hits, man. I mean, he's had so many hits and it like forever for decades. And then he, um, and then he like started, you know, A&M records and, you know, he's sort of responsible for, uh, the carpenters and, you know, and all the way up, you know, through like, you know he's sort of responsible for uh the carpenters and you know and all the way up you know through like you know janet jackson lies i mean it's just i'm sort of fascinated with the uh with the with the music business and um and and you know i always knew that he was a big deal i

knew he was the a in a and m records and i i i jumped at the opportunity to talk to him so i hope you enjoy this conversation herb albert's uh record come fly with me is available now still out there playing the music too with his wife it's amazing i remember you because my parents had a copy of um whipped cream and other delights no okay no there's one where you got your hand up the girl on your arm what now my love yeah yeah yeah yeah okay so I just I remember that cover I remember you I you know I was young I was eight or nine I'm like who the fuck is that guy yeah that's me that was me that was me i'm still here and you're 80 i think so let me check my id hang on yeah i'm 80 i'm excited man i uh because i'm sort of fascinated with the music

business and when i look at your career it's a it's astounding like you're one of those guys that i i don't know if you could really quantify who could have had a bigger impact on music, both in recording and in creating a label, that was powerful, man. Yeah. Well, it was a different time, man. We couldn't do it today. I mean, if we tried to start A&M in today's music industry, I don't think it would happen. Well, walk me through it, because I love old stories about how the music business used to be, because it used to be a pretty intimate business. Where'd you grow up?

Well, I grew up in L.A. I'm a native of Los Angeles. Really? Yeah, but the music business in 62, that's when we started A&M, was totally different. Man, there were little labels operating out of the trunks of their car. You just had to deliver the single, right? Was that really the market?

Well, you could come to some radio stations with a master, and if the program director happened to like it, he'd either put it on immediately or they'd put it in the meeting, and then you'd get immediate feedback, which obviously doesn't happen anymore. In sales and in making hits, if they played it on the radio. Well, if people dug it. I mean, you can't anticipate that. So you grew up in what part of L.A.?

Well, I was born in East L.A. and then grew up around Fairfax and Beverly. Are your folks from around here? I mean, were they originally from here? No, my dad was from Russia. My dad was a real hero. When he was 16 years old, he took a boat from Russia alone, not speaking the language. You know, he just spoke Yiddish at the time. Uh-huh.

And landed in Ellis Island and little by little, you know, worked his way to, you know, through the States. I think he was working in Chicago for a a while in los angeles and that's where he met my mom and those are amazing stories because my family's eastern european jewish and like i they came in from russia through ellis island but i did you have you gone back to how far with the roots have you gone did you ever get fascinated with like uh where he came from in russia well i didn't haven't been to russia but you know i was in in uh ellis island and you could felt you can feel that vibe, man. You can really feel all the things that happened through there.

It's pretty amazing. Was it the same name or did they change the name? No, it was the same name. No kidding. Alpert, right. So that made it all the way from Russia. Made it from Russia, but he was really an unusual guy. He little by little brought his entire family over from Russia.

Brothers, sisters? His brothers and sisters, right. And what did he do? He was a tailor. Yeah? Yeah, he was a really good tailor, too. Yeah. You know, he had, like, a flair for design.

And we used to walk down, you know, Wilshire Boulevard andvard and get on his little sketch pad. And when he'd see something he'd like, he'd sketch it and then try to improve on it or do his own little take on it. Did he have a shop? He was manufacturing ladies' coats and suits in downtown Los Angeles. Oh, really? Yeah. Were they originals or knockoffs? No, they were originals.

Oh, wow. They were originals. Knockoffs. Well, that's... You know, it's possible. I don't know about that. Well, no, it's just that's the schmata business, right? Yeah, now he's in the schmata business. Yeah.

Sure, man. And your mom, did she do stuff? Well, my mom played violin for a while, but she was a great spirit. You know, she really was encouraging for me. You know, every time I, you know, I was encouraging for me you know every time i you know i started playing trumpet when i was eight so when i was lax and i didn't practice you know she'd always get on me for that and yeah said you know you gotta you gotta keep it up and then i'd play and then neighbors would yell and then she'd open her window and say shut up my kids practicing

so she was cool so eight old, like what kind of music do you remember playing at eight? Well, I couldn't play at all, man. You know, I was lucky because there was this music appreciation class in my grammar school, which obviously doesn't happen anymore,

which should happen because I think, you know, to rub elbows with some type of form of creativity at a young age, I think really, really, you, really puts a nice foundation. Kids get to feel their own uniqueness, and hopefully they can feel the uniqueness in others,

and it might be a whole different story. And they make sounds. Oh, yeah. Yeah. My mom was very supportive of guitar playing, you know, so like it changed my life. Oh, yeah. So anyways, there was this, in this class, there was a table filled with various instruments. I happened to pick up the trumpet, tried to make a sound out of it, couldn't do that.

I thought you'd just blow hot air into the mouthpiece. But, you know, I finally realized I could make the sound. And little by little, you know, this horn was speaking for me because I was super shy. Yeah. I just loved the idea that this horn was speaking for me. Get some attention. Blast out some sound. I got attention and got the chicks and the whole thing.

So many of the people I talk to in the arts, you ask them why they got into it, and they're like, chicks. Yeah, well, that wasn't my motivation up front, but I mean, it certainly didn't hurt. What music was speaking to you once you started to get the hang of it? Well, I was classically trained. I had a teacher. Actually, he was from Russia as well, and I studied with him for about 12 years. And it was mainly playing Beethoven, Bach and

Yeah? And you played in orchestra a bit? I played in Junior Symphony orchestras and then at one point I was playing in this orchestra and we were playing Pictures at an Exhibition by Mazorski

Ravel did the arrangements and I was so enamored by the sound of the orchestra. I was really knocked out by it. So I was leaning forward, listening to everybody. And it was like this stereotype effect. And I forgot to come in. Yeah, I forgot to come into my part. So I realized at that point there, you know,

I'm not sure I want to make this type of music. And then I started listening to louis armstrong and miles and you know the jazzers and i that looked like fun they man these guys were closing their eyes and just playing whatever was coming out and to me uh that's what i wanted to try to do but but from that early education you you learn how to read music you learn how to arrange music you learn how to write it well i learned how to how to read it for sure. Arranging is a whole other animal. I mean, you've got to really study that. It's not like you can play the trumpet and you can be an arranger.

When I got to the keyboard, I started playing piano. And I realized the arrangers need to have that because then you can see the harmonies. If you're playing just a single-tone instrument like a trumpet trombone, it's just one sound that's coming out. So you can't really play out the otheries. If you're playing just a single tone instrument like a trumpet trombone, that's just one sound that's coming out. So you can't really play out the other parts. Yeah, you can't. And when you put your hand on 10 different notes, it's a whole different feeling. You pretty good at piano now? No, I'm good at just fooling around with chords and moving it around. But that's the genesis of the Tijuana Brass was I was fooling around

with this song that a friend of mine wrote called Twinkle Star, which was a beautiful melody, but it was really corny, man. He gave me a demo of it and it sounded like a music box, you know.

Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do, that type of thing. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, I was arranging it and at that time I was going to bullfights in the springtime. Down in Tijuana?

In Tijuana. There was a major place. They had the greatest matadors from around the world. So I got inspired by that. I never heard mariachi music, but I heard this band that was in the stands in Tijuana, and they were announcing the different events. Right.

So I tried to translate that into a record, you know, when I heard, da-da, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da- Carlos Arruza, he would come out on a white horse. The reins were around his waist. He would never touch the reins with his hands, and he was just giving the horse directions by the movement of his body. And it was exciting, man. And then he'd do whatever he had to do, put the banderillas in to lower the bull's head or whatever they do for that. And he'd put the horse away, and he walked across the marina uh the arena and he wouldn't look at the bull the bull would just be looking at him you know with with the smoke coming

out of his nose and he wouldn't even honor him he'd be like within three feet of him yeah looking the other way and the crowd would go crazy and you know i was drinking wine at the time it was uh you know i tried to translate that whole feeling into a song. And that changed the face of certainly instrumental and popular music. I mean, the Tijuana Brass did. Well, I can't say it changed the face of it, but it was certainly a moment. And when the Lonely Bull happened, it just like took off like a rocket. I think it was that tone. I think it was almost like an international flavor that people hadn't really heard and it's so compelling it was a good song and uh you know the arrangement

was good and it worked and you know it's like when that door opens man it really opens because you know three days into the release of that record we were getting calls from distributors from all over the world international hit yeah and Yeah, and wanted us to give them their distribution rights, which my partner Jerry Moss doled it out. And the Lonely Bull was happening. I got a call from our distributor in Washington, D.C. He says, man, you guys got a smash. That Acapulco 1922 is happening.

I said, brother, you're on the wrong side. So you know when it starts happening, man, you guys got a smash. That Acapulco 1922 is happening. I said, brother, you're on the wrong side. So, you know, when it starts happening, man, when the door opens for you, it swings. The B-side did well, too? Yeah, well, we eventually had them turn it over. But, yeah, the B-side was happening, too. Well, the language you're speaking around music, what was in between learning like, learning how to play

and what were your first sort of forays into the music business? Well, I played, you know, dances, parties in high school. We had a little group, a trio. Mostly standards? Yeah, mostly standards and, you know, little flashy stuff, a triple ton because of the classical background. I could do some fancy things on the horn. Not very creative, but it was like fancy. Right.

Impressive. Yeah, it was impressive. Yeah. It was impressive enough because there was, this was in the 50s, and in L.A. there was this show called High Talent Battle. And they were pitting high school bands against one another. And we entered, and we won. You know, like for six weeks in a row, we were seen on television. And because of that, you know, we started playing parties and weddings.

Working as a musician. Yeah, yeah, that's right. And I got my card, my union card at 16, and off we went. At that time, I wasn't sure i was going to be a professional musician what was the other option i didn't have another option you know girls so when do you start like writing songs because i know that they're when i when i think about that time i mean we're talking about, what, the late 50s? When you were in high school? No, early 50s. Early 50s.

Yeah, I graduated high school in 1953. So, like, the music business, like, there were guys around writing. The deal was you tried to write hit pop songs, right? Well, in 53, I was, no, I didn't write any songs then. I was drafted in the Army after high school. Well, I went to college for about a year and a half. Studying what? I was studying music.

And I wasn't into it. I didn't feel it. The timing was off. Sure. And I got drafted. So when I was signing up or whatever I had to do i told them look at the only thing i know how to do is play the trumpet that's all i can do and i would i lied a bit i said i played with count basey i played with duke ellington i mean i'm just a trumpet player man you know

i'm not a secretary don't give me a gun or whatever yeah anyways they sent me to band school in fort knox kentucky for, I think it was six weeks. For like marching band kind of stuff? No, it was a band school just to organize musicians for the Army. Did you learn something there? I learned that I wasn't as good as I thought I was. There's a lot of good players there from all over the country. So, you know, I had a good aha there. Just about your skill set? So, you know, I had a good aha there. Uh-huh.

Just about your skill set? Yeah. And I realized that if I was ever going to be a professional, I really had to hone in on a particular direction. And did you play revelry and that kind of stuff? No, not at band school. I did later. I was sent to the Presidio in San Francisco. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I spent almost two years there. You were stationed there? I was stationed in Presidio. It was a Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I spent almost two years there. You were stationed there? I was stationed in Presidio. It was a fabulous place. Beautiful there. Oh, it was gorgeous. Oh, right there at the bridge, yeah. So there were 12 trumpet players there,

and every 12th day, you'd go to the Federal Cemetery and play taps. Uh-huh. You know, so I had that. And then you're in San Francisco, which is sort of happening, right? I love San Francisco. In that time, in like the mid to late 50s it must have been amazing uh yeah it was amazing and i think it still is amazing sure my wife doesn't like she's not crazy about it lani

thinks it looks like a like a movie set well it does it's that beautiful in a way yeah but what what was going on there did you tap into the music scene? Oh, yeah. Yeah. They had a great jazz club there called the Blackhawk. I used to see Miles and Dave Brubeck. Oh, yeah. Let's see. Cal Jader. Uh-huh. You know, all the greats.

Were there comics working with those guys at that time? Well. Did you see like Lenny or Jonathan Winter? Well, we played with Lenny once. You know, yeah, this is when the Tijuana Brass started. We're moving up in time now, but we were playing at the Crescendo on Sunset Boulevard

owned by Gene Norman. Lenny was playing upstairs and he did his thing and then we came on. He was a knockout. I mean, this guy could have you laughing, rolling on the ground. I mean, he was that funny. And I remember after we played the set,

I went downstairs, and Count Basie, man, was playing in the bottom section of this club. And Lenny was up on the top of the piano, man. He was introducing Count Basie. And he says, You know why I like Basie? And everyone says, Why, why, why?

Because he has big black balls. And he jumps off the piano and runs out. That was it? Yeah, that was it. And the guy was, he was special. Did you get to hang out with him at all?

No, not at all. But, you know, I talked to him a couple of times. Was he at his peak then or coming out? He was at his peak. No, that was the height of his thing. So when you're seeing like Brubeck and Miles and all these cats, like who, like did you, because you came a little after that scene, like the bebop scene. Yeah.

And who were some of your role models in that, you know, in that era? Well. Chet Baker? Well, I love Chet Baker. Yeah, Chet Baker. You know, I gave Chet Baker one of my trumpets, actually. I became friendly with him, and, you know, he was a genius. He was the influence on you, though, right?

He was an influence, but there were a lot of influences. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was one of them, because, you know, Chet didn't know music. I mean, he didn't know a C chord from his left elbow. He was an instinctive musician. He could play through a minefield of chord changes without, you know, knowing what he was doing. Right. He was doing it.

Yeah. Strung out, too. Well, unfortunately, he was his worst enemy. Yeah. Strung out, too. Well, unfortunately, he was his worst enemy. Yeah. And I used to see him at the Hague with the Jerry Mulligan Quartet. Uh-huh. And I fell in love with that sound and Jerry as well because they'd play a set and then Jerry would walk up to the microphone and say, in this blurry eyes, staring out, he'd

say, shortly. Yeah eyes, staring out, he'd say, shortly. Yeah, that was him. And then I became good friends with Jerry after a while because he recorded for A&M along with Stan Getz, and Chet did a record for us too. Yeah, I gave Chet a good old Martin Committee trumpet that he loved to play and you know he pawned that thing two days later oh really yeah it's hard to deal with the guys who

were strung out i'll tell you and he was a sweetheart of a guy yeah he's very sensitive obviously but just did not have a handle on himself yeah like art pepper too right like art was art was that's tragic i mean art art was absolutely brilliant yeah and i was i had this idea i was going to do this with him at a&m we had these acoustic chambers yeah on the lot and i was i wanted to put him in a chamber and let him just wail just play whatever he wanted to play and that right he passed out uh passed on about uh two or three weeks before this might have happened. Oh, really?

Yeah. Yeah, he fought it too, man. I mean, that heroin just knocked out a lot of cats, right? It's just no good. Yeah, yeah. And did you ever see, who was Art Pepper's mentor or his guy Lester? Was it Lester Young? Well, yeah.

Well, he was everyone's mentor. That was the president. The president. Yeah, that was the name that Billie Holiday gave him. Oh, yeah? The Prez. Yeah. But most sax players, when you talk to them,

it goes from probably Coleman Hawkins to Lester Young, and then it's the new guys. Charlie Parker? Well, Charlie Parker was on his own planet, man. This guy was really unusually special. And 100 years from now, we'll still hear him, and it's still unique. He was... Did you see him?

Never saw him. Oh, yeah? Never saw him. And in terms of trumpet, like, so Chet was sort of responsible for what they called the California sound? Yeah, it was the cool school. Yeah. But there were a lot of guys, you know, Shorty Rogers lived in L.A. He had a band called Shorty Rogers and the Giants.

And Picard Pepper played in that band. Shelly Mann was his drummer. He had a lot of great musicians with him. And Shorty was a really good trumpet player, too. Did you like to play that bebop? I mean, like when you were younger? No, I didn't know how to do it. You know, the transition from

classical music to jazz is pretty dramatic. It's not that easy. Right. You know, in classical music you're working all these scales, diatonic scales. It's a different, you know, jazz is a particular language. Unless you can play into that

language, it doesn't sound good it could sound really corny yeah yeah so right i was really careful with that yeah but you put you got to play with some of those dudes in your career certainly well i got to uh i feel feel more comfortable in in that whole genre because i mean to me jazz is jazz is really special. I mean, I think jazz is what we're all looking for. Right. Jazz is freedom. Yeah, yeah. And that's the thing.

I think that's what exemplifies jazz the most. You get to do your thing within a group setting. And it doesn't hinge on commercial success or necessarily necessarily uh uh you know context like if you're in it you're in it yeah it's just jazz well you know that's the sad part of what's happening in this country because a dear friend of mine was stan getz i mean we were like brothers the last four years of his life he used to go to europe red carpet service man it didn't care whether he had a hit record or not they just remembered that he was a great musician. They hung on with him.

Whatever country he went into. Respect. Respect. He'd come back to L.A. and it'd be a whole different story. What do you attribute that to, that jazz is so specific and so niche in this country as opposed to like France or anywhere

where they have a true appreciation for all forms of music yeah it's lack of education i think yeah you know uh we've we've we've managed to carve out the the arts program and music in the public and some of the private schools so that's what you get people are coming up to their own water level and it's kind of low at the moment right right now okay so you're taking all that stuff in so when do you sort of what's your first foray into pop music at it before the brass well uh let's see before the brass you know when i heard this record by uh les paul and mary ford but less was layering his guitars on this record and his voice voice, his wife's voice, Mary Ford as well.

So I started doing that at home in my little studio. I had a little, in my garage, I built a room inside a room. Shit happens in garages, man. I'm telling you. Yeah. Yeah, so I started fooling around with layering my horn on this, from tape machine to tape machine. And I came up with this sound that's said to me

that's good and that was the genesis of the Tijuana Brass sound and and who were the guys who how'd you recruit the dudes for the original Tijuana Brass there were no dudes it was like there was no group until after I recorded the Whipped Cream and Other Delights album then I got a group together but no I was using was using, you know, there was this, the first record was pretty, gee whiz, I was playing piano on it and singing parts and playing percussion, you know. Did everything. Yeah, and played the trumpets,

and it cost a couple hundred bucks to make. Then after a while, when we did the Lonely Bull album, and the album after that, we were using, you know, these guys called the Wrecking Crew. Yeah. Danny Tedesco did a documentary about his dad, Tommy. He did a fantastic job with this. I mean, you know, honoring his dad, who was a phenomenal guitar player. Yeah.

I knew nothing about any of that until I really talked to him. And I'm so happy that he got the rights and got everything he needed to get that out in the right way. Well, it really took him a long time to get the copyright straight and all that but he he hung on like a like a pit bull yeah great yeah and and and just learning about those musicians then i saw the brian wilson movie and just unbelievable bunch of people but you you lived in it yeah it was fun to watch those guys because they were very flexible. You know, they'd go from our session to the Beach Boys

to Sinatra to, you know, wherever, and they'd be, you know. And I think they got off on it. I think that they totally got off on it.

And they were in the moment, you know. Yeah, yeah. Hal was totally consumed with what I was trying to do

and was trying to, you know, get into it, you know. Yeah. Try to see the music through me and he always did it. So, like, you know, get into it, you know, try to see the music through me. And he always did it.

So, like, you know, you've had like you've made like do you even know how many records? No, no, a lot. And you've had a lot of number one hits and you've had concurrent hits and you've had, you know, several Grammys. Do you was there? Like, I know that music's magic but like the tijuana brass comes and that sound mocks in what was going on culturally in music that you think like just blew everyone's mind about what you were doing do you ever think about it yeah i think about it and i think it all has to do with the song i think it's all about songs good melodies yeah um taste of honey i

remember taste of honey was like huge. Yeah. It was in the back door, by the way. How so? Well, after I did the Whipped Cream album, finally got a group together, a traveling group together. My partner loved this song that I did called Third Man Theme. And Taste of Honey was on the B side.

So when we got the group together and we were playing at this place in Seattle, Washington, the Edgewater Inn, every time I played Taste of Honey, people would go crazy, man. And so I called Jerry. I said, Jerry, I'm telling you, man, there's a focus group here that's telling me Taste of Honey is the side, not third man theme. He says, well, man, you can't dance to it. It stops and starts and then, you know. I said, tell me. Look at, man, it's Taste of Honey.

So we finally turned it over and it became a big hit. And that was the door opener. That was the door that swung so wide that we got Ed Sullivan and Dean Martin and all those major shows. And you had not. So to put together a touring band, who were the guys you chose for that and why? Well, we auditioned musicians, and I just chose the guys that I felt could represent what I was doing.

And how long did you travel with them? Oh, a long time. Yeah? Yeah, through 1969 from 1966 or 1965 and a half to 69. And that sound, man. I mean, it's a very specific sound you created. You know, there is a, like if you hear any of your music, you know it's you. And that's a rare thing.

Well, it might be rare, but that's the thing you're all going for. Sure. As an artist, whether you're a dancer, a poet, a writer, a disc jockey. Sure, man. You go for your own thing, you know? And that's what I was doing. I wanted to express myself. Uh-huh.

Because I could have done the Lonely Bull sideways and tried to do the fancy stuff with the same thing. No, I wanted to see how far I could push it. There's a swing to it, right? I mean, what do you call your sound i mean it has a good feel yeah it has a good feel and you know i can pick on good songs but i'll tell you what happened when the lonely bull was was a top 10 i got this letter from a lady in germany who said dear mr albert thank you for sending me on this vicarious trip to Tijuana. Now, I chuckled when I saw it, and then I thought, wow, that music was so visual for her, it transported her. I mean, I want to make visual music. And that's pretty much the way I hear it. And the other thing that

happened was that I had this great experience with the great Sam Cooke, and he taught me a lot. And I have this ability, because I paint and I sculpt and I blow the horn and do my art stuff, because I'm 85% in the right side of my brain. I have become an audience to what I do. When I listen to a recording of mine or when I'm recording and I play it back, I'm not listening to the trumpet player.

I'm listening to the overall feeling. Does it feel good? Yeah. Is it something I would want to buy myself if I heard it? Or, you know, does it touch me? And that's the measure. You can detach from it a little bit. I can detach from it completely, man.

I have nine huge totems at the Field Museum in Chicago at the moment. Sculptures. Sculptures, yeah, in bronze, from 13 to 18 feet tall. And when I saw them a week later, because we happened to be playing in Chicago, I went to the museum and I looked at these pieces. I said, wow, man, that's good. I mean, I know it sounds corny, but man, that's the way I feel. Hey, man, if you can have that detachment and then that appreciation and know you're done with something and you're proud of it, I mean, that's the best.

I mean, what are you going to be one of those guys that's like never good enough? What do you want to live like that for? Well, I think you have to believe in what you're doing. I mean, if you don't believe in it it why are you expecting someone else to believe in it right right yeah i do have that uh feeling about what i do but that other little dimension of you know when i produced records you know not my own records but uh other other artists and i'd have the drummer or the bass player or the piano player in the control room when we're listening to a playback. Well, the drummer's saying he's not hearing enough drums.

The bass player wants to hear more bass. Of course, right. So you got to block that out. I would go for the feel. Does it feel right? When it feels right for me, I stop. And I had that experience in 1968 or so so we recorded this guy's in love with you yeah which was a number one record and you did vocals on that which wasn't your thing i did a vocal because of this television show i was doing and burt backrack did the arrangements and i was we we had the track and i was at gold star studios and i wanted to see whether my voice would sound good on this track if it was in the right key yeah yeah so I'm in the studio singing the song and Bert and some of the other musicians are in the control room I finish it and I walk into the control room they said don't touch it

I said don't touch what he said don't touch it man it was just great man it was honest it felt good you know and I listened to it and and I said, yeah, it does. It does feel good. I mean, there's little things that I would probably could have improved on it. Uh-huh. But the feeling was there. I think it's all about feeling. Sure, man.

And that was a huge hit for you. It was number one. You didn't do much singing. No, no. I don't think of myself as a singer. But if you get the right song and the right arrangement. Yeah. Hello? And the feeling's there. Yeah, it's all about feeling, man. I don't think of myself as a singer, but if you get the right song and the right arrangement, hello?

And the feeling's there. Yeah, it's all about feeling, man. That's what I try to impress on artists that are with A&M. Yeah. What about Sam Cooke? Oh, man. Well, I wrote Wonderful World with him, with Lou Adler. And Sam wrote Don't Know Much.

Yeah, sure. I know that song yeah and Sam was an unusual artist man he had he had magic he had that it thing whatever that I bought I got a collection of the souls what was his gospel group the soul searchers was it so stores yeah oh my god no Sam is a lead singer. And he had just an innate ability to do the right thing. You know, he'd come in with this notebook filled with lyrics, you know, and he'd look at me and say, Herbie, what do you think of this lyric here? Yeah.

And I'd look at it, and the lyric really looked really corny, man. It really looked like trite stuff. Yeah, yeah. I said, well, what does it sound like? What's the song like? He'd pick up his guitar, his guitar and holy moly man the thing would transform into something fabulous you know he had it because his passion was there his intent was there and i think that's you know that's the whole thing what and that's what you learned with him that there was a magic oh i learned a lot more you know he was he was the first black artist to have his own record

company he had sar records yeah and he was auditioning this artist uh for his company and i was in the control room with lou and sam was uh listening as well and this artist came in he was from the caribbean beautiful guy man green eyes and tall and yeah playing guitar and singing and i'd look at him and sam said, what do you think? I said, man, I think the guy's great. You ought to sign him. He says, well, turn your back on him for five minutes and let me know what you think.

I turned my back and the guy wasn't happening. You know what I mean? And that's when he said, man, it doesn't matter what you look like or you're black, you're white, what kind of echo chamber you're using. He said, the people are listening to a cold piece of wax and it either makes it or it don't and this is all about you know so i got into that the feel of it and then anytime i'd audition an artist at a&m it was always with my eyes closed you know because of that experience because of that experience

because i didn't want to be intimidated i didn't want somebody who could dance like Michael Jackson and, you know, turn me. Yeah, distract you from it. Yeah. Yeah, that guy's a hell of a showman, and you don't know that he's terrible. Well, yeah. I mean, of course, it's taken another turn, you know, with MTV and all that. When that came in, all of a sudden, people were listening with their eyes, you know? Sure.

And now the spectacle of a pop show is insane, dude. I mean, it's like and some people don't even sing their own tracks yeah and it's like it's it's insane so what was the incentive for for starting a label at that time what year was that well that was 1962 and like i was said before they were like a little like a lot of little labels right hanging around just uh you know taking a chance. And we weren't starting a major company. We were just, we wanted to release a record.

Of yours? Yeah. Yeah. And so the original label was called Carnival Records. And how did you meet your partner? Well, Lou Adler and I were working for a company in New York, and the head promotion man went to school with jerry jerry moss and he introduced us introduced me and jerry at the time

was in new york and had desires to move to la and lou introduced you no no this uh ted fagan who was the head promotion man of this company okay Okay. And how did you know Lou? Okay, Lou. Lou used to date my ex-wife. And I met Lou when I got out of the Army. And Lou was married to my ex-wife's girlfriend. Uh-huh. And we became friends.

We just hit it off. Like, we clicked. Lou and I just clicked immediately. What did he do then? Well, he was in the insurance. He was selling insurance, whatever that's called. And then he was working for a clothier, Zeidler and Zeidler. And he'd write poetry.

So he wrote a lot of poetry. And I took the poetry and wrote some music to the poetry. And then that started it. So he came in as kind of a songwriter in a way? Well, yeah, we were both songwriters at that point. And then we had about six songs that we made demonstration records of, and we took them around to various publishing companies, and we took it to one company.

We took it to Specialty Records, and Sonny Bono was the A&R director at that time of Specialty Records. And we had to go downstairs in this little funky room and Sonny listened to the thing and he said, I don't think you guys are right

for this business. He tried to talk us out of it. And that's a young Sonny before Phil Spector, before anything. Oh, yeah. That was before that. Yeah. We finally got a job

with Keen Records, K-E-E-N. You and Lou. Lou and I. And at that time, Sam was their major artist. He had that You Send Me record, which was number one.

And we started working for Bumps Blackwell, who produced Sam's records. As songwriters. As songwriters. As songwriters. Mm-hmm. And, you know, just watching people record and learning that bit. What other songs did you write in that time?

Well, we wrote a song called All of My Life, which didn't happen. But the experience I had, which was the aha for me, was we were at Radio Recorders in Los Angeles, me was we were at radio recorders in Los Angeles and I was privy to watch this session that this producer, I think he was with Challenge Records, and he was a noted producer and he made some hit records. And I was in the control room watching him and they were rehearsing in the studio and he got on the horn and said, Plaz Johnson was playing tenor sax. And he said, that was great. Plaz, play that again.

And Plaz said, did you record it? He said, no, I didn't, but you know what you played. Just play the same thing. And Plaz looked at him in disbelief, and I thought, like, holy shit, man, I can do that. I didn't believe that he didn't put it together, that Pla plaza just played something off the top of his head, and he couldn't reproduce it. Okay, so A&M, it's you and Lou Adler and Jerry Wright?

Well, no, I left Lou in around 1958 or 9. As a songwriting partner? Yeah, as a partner because I was working at a gym when I was in high school, and I used to go to this gym now and then. This guy looked at me, he says, man, you should be in the movies. I said, okay, put me in.

I took his challenge, and he introduced me to some people at Paramount Studios. Oh, yeah? And I took an audition for some things, and I was really green. Man, I couldn't act. They liked me, but they said, you need, you know, you need to...

Chops? Yeah, I need more chops. Yeah. So I started studying. I studied with Jeff Corey and then Leonard Nimoy. Oh, really? That was before Leonard hit the big time. Uh-huh.

And that was fun, but I realized that that wasn't my thing. Did you do any movies? As a musician, as a background musician. Which ones? Oh, man, I was in 20 or so. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Like in the band?

In the band, but like in the Ten Commandments, I played kettle drum and I eat a horn. On those big sets? Oh, the huge sets. Didn't DeMille direct that? Cecil B. DeMille. Oh, my God. Let me tell you, I was playing kettle drums, idolizing the golden calf scene, as Moses was coming down from Mount Sinai, and the scene was going to open up on my back.

Oh, right. Yeah. And I turned around, and DeMille was up with the cameraman, and I turned around and said, Mr. DeMille, do you mind opening up on my face? He looked at me in disbelief and he said, not this time, kid. Give me a shot, man. That's beautiful.

Yeah, that was quite an experience because I was on that movie for like three months because DeMille would just have extras outside there just in case he wanted to change directions. Cast of cast a thousand oh it was ridiculous then he was a trip to watch because he had let's say one two three there were five guys around him one on each side and then there was a guy following him with a with a stool so anytime he wanted to sit down man he wouldn't look behind him he He would just sit down, man. The stool would be there.

I wonder what that guy's up to. Yeah. And then the other guys were like, you know, if he took off his coat or something, he would just take it. You know?

Uh-huh. He was kind of one of those guys. Old school. Yeah, real old school. He defined something. He's like the, when you have the idea

of the stereotypical old director, that's the guy. Yeah, yeah. With a bullhorn. There are a lot, yeah, really. And there were a lot of stories floating around with him.

This lady that was supposedly in his movies, every movie he ever made after the 30s because she called him a ball-headed son of a bitch, you know? Yeah.

Because he wouldn't break, no, she said, this was in the 30s, and there's a lot of disruption on the set. Yeah. And he said, I'm not going to continue until somebody tells me what's the deal. And she chimed in and said, I wonder what this ball-headed son of a bitch was going to break for lunch. You know, and he looked at her, and he asked her to lunch. And ever since then. That was it?

Yeah. Every movie. Yeah. That was it? Every movie? Yeah. That's hilarious. So you're in the acting racket for a little while. Yeah. And Lou goes and does his thing. And then how do you meet up with Moss? Well, Moss eventually landed in Los Angeles,

and he wanted to do a record with a friend of his, an actor friend. I helped him put that together. And I recorded this record prior to meeting Jerry called Tell It to the Birds. I was singing on that thing because I wanted to really make a demo for it. I thought it would be good for the Beatles or something. Right, right, yeah. Who wouldn't want a Beatle record? You sure, right?

Okay, so anyways, we put that record out under Carnival, and it started making some noise. And with that, we turned it over to Dot Records at the time. Wink Martindale was the... Really? Yeah, he was the antirperson at Dot Records. Yeah, they took it. They gave us like 500 bucks for it.

And with that money, we recorded The Lonely Bull. And that was it. And then history was made. Yeah. And that was the beginning of A&M? Oh, 1962. Yeah.

The Lonely Bull was the first record. And my partner Jerry, he took care of all the heavy duty stuff because he had more of a business concept. Need that guy. Yeah concept. Need that guy. Yeah, definitely need that guy. You know, so Lonely Bull was 101.

That was the name when we put the number of the record. I said, well, how come it's so 101? He says, let's let the distributors think we had 100 records

out before this one. And you could get away with that back then. Yeah, so that was a good thing. This guy's been around for a while. So you did every record of yours on A&M up until you left A&M for the most part.

Yeah. Wow. But here's the amazing thing about A&M is like the artists you guys signed, who was your A&R guy? Well, me and Jerry to start with. Well, there was just the two of us. That was it, right?

No, it was in my garage. We started in my garage. That's crazy. Who was the first artist you signed? Oh, boy. We signed a group called the Kenjalares. It was a vocal group. They didn't do much.

A couple of nice records. Then we signed George McCurran, who was the bass singer with the Pilgrim Travelers. I learned a lot from that group, too, by the way. The Pilgrim Travelers were recording for Keen Records. And then Little by the... You know, the brass was... We were, you know, really the ones that were keeping A&M alive.

You guys were big. You had hits. Yeah. Yeah. But that was like around 1968 or 7, we picked up We Five, that group, and that was the number one record. And then in 1966, we signed Sergio Mendez and Brazil 66, which was a nice move. And they opened the show for us for some time. And then because of that exposure, and i produced the first couple uh albums of theirs

they they they took off yeah and then you're off and running as a label yeah then we're off and running and then you know jerry wanted to get a little harder edge and we got joe cocker and and kat stevens and how'd you get all the those guys well from london you know we went you set up an office yeah we set up an office in london and wow you did the carpenters oh yeah i signed the carpenters in 69 huge yeah right they were huge it took a while for him to really catch on didn't didn't happen right overnight and you and burt backwrack did his solo stuff with you oh yeah we had burt was recording for us. And then, like, I'm just looking at the... Well, Quincy Jones and Janet Jackson and Super Tramp. The police?

The police, for sure. The police were outstanding. I mean, first time I saw them live, I mean, it was like, wow, isn't that great? Three guys, man, making that type of sound. Oh, it's amazing. Sting, you know, wrote wonderful songs. But you did Humble Pie, you did Free. Yeah.

Did Joe Jackson. Joe Jackson. I mean, these were like sticks. Yeah. Oh, yeah, we had a great roster. But at some point you hired A&R guys, right? Oh, yeah, no. Yeah, at that point we really were stretching out.

But that was why we sold. You know, as far as I'm concerned, you know, we sold the company in 1990. It started with the two of us, then three, five, ten. And all of a sudden, we had 500 people. I said, man, this is way beyond me having a good time doing this. But you had no, I mean, that whole side of the business, I imagine, initially was not your goal, right? And then it just became this amazing thing. Yeah.

When I first had the group with Tijuana Brass, before we traveled to Seattle, that story I told, we played it in Los Angeles and we opened the show for Dave Brubeck. Ah. And I remember coming off stage and Paul Desmond,

who was like one of my all-time favorite musicians, he was leaning against the wall as I was coming off and he was scratching his head. He said, I don't know what I just heard, but I think I like it. Like it seemed that there was a transition in terms of instrumental music. Instrumental popular music has always had its own place in a way, right? I mean, there was a period in, I guess, the 30s, 40s, and then a bit in the 50s where it was all the music. All dance music was a lot of instrumental. It was big band and swing and that kind of stuff. But it seemed that you were sort of at the beginning of redefining instrumental music as popular music

that kind of led to all of them, to Spiro, Jira, Kenny G, all these cats that did that. It's a very specific area, right? It seemed like it. Unfortunately, now instrumental music is kind of on the back burner. A lot of these stations won't play music if it's just straight instrumental. But it was a popular thing for a long time. Yeah, it was very popular. And you never stopped playing.

Throughout all of A&M, you were recording dozens of records. You didn't stay with the Tijuana Brass? No, I didn't stay with them. We ended in 1969. Then I got another group together, a little different group of the Tijuana Brass in 74. We played for a command performance for the Queen Elizabeth, which was a trip.

What songs did you play? The Tijuana Brass songs, but with a little different group. And it was, you know, some other songs as well, but it was quite a moment. How many Grammys? Nine. For records and production, right? Yeah, I don't know.

So as a producer, I've asked this to other music producers who i've talked to we what what are you servicing what is that what is the job of a producer when you're doing like when you're producing someone that is maybe not even necessarily the type of music that you play yeah it depends who you're producing and uh you know when i did sergio mendez after after uh i did that first album, and Sergio kind of got the hang of it. In that first album, we had Mashkinata, which was a big hit in clubs and moderate hit on the charts. I remember in the studio, in our Studio B, with my feet up on the desk and listening to the music, thinking, man, I don't have to do anything.

It's happening by itself. Yeah. So all I have to do is get out of the way of this thing. Yeah, and watch those levels, I guess. Well, not let the engineer do that. Yeah. So it depends on who you're producing. But it's about the songs.

It's about making an artist comfortable in the studio. At A&M, in Studio B, I put in this huge crystal embedded into the wall. So a lot of times artists would come in, even if they weren't recording in that particular studio, they'd be in front of that crystal like they were in Jerusalem, the wailing wall, davening against the thing and with the thing. I don't know what they were thinking about. Well, you know, we've got to leave room for a little magic. Yeah.

Well, you know, it's funny you say that word. That's the word that strikes me about art. There's a mystery about art. What makes something that makes you want to listen to it over and over again or a piece of sculpture that, you know, gives you a rush or a painting or walking in front of a jackson pollock painting and getting it if you think too hard and you try to analyze it man you ain't gonna find it no you gotta let it hit you yeah and i think that's what art is it's that mystery what is that thing yeah it's thank god they haven't figured out how to quantify it yeah

so they try well so do i i'm chasing it all the time because i you know what is that thing that makes me feel good when i hear a particular song or when i'm playing and i get a little you know charge up the back yeah you know yeah that's it so once you you left uh i mean you stayed at a&m after you sold it for a long time uh just for a couple years yeah no it's kind of changed hands and it changed what they had promised jerry and i you know it kind of morphed into a more corporate type of thing our thing was not corporate at all it was like jerry and i and we make decisions quickly and you knew everybody in a way yeah well smaller business not when there was 500 people but i mean yeah when we wanted to sign an artist he he said, I'm signing the Carpenters. He said, great.

It wasn't like he had to pass judgment on it. And whatever he wanted to sign, we signed. And where did you find them? I heard a tape. And I heard the tape, and I put this tape on in my office and did the Sam Cooke thing. I was sitting on my couch, closed my eyes, listening to this music

and it felt like this voice, Karen's voice, was like sitting next to me or something. There was something powerful about her voice, even though she didn't think she was a singer.

Man, she was playing drums on these demos. But she had that certain something. I met them and realized, you know, it wasn't the music that I love to listen to myself, but I recognized their passion

for what they were doing. Yeah. And it was come from a heavy place, it turns out. Yeah. But, you know, it took a while. I mean, there's a whole story connected with the success

and how it came about, but it's, you know, the first year or so. I think some of the people in my own company were in doubt why I signed them. They thought they were maybe a little too light, too cute, whatever. And then I gave them Close to You, that song that Burt Bacharach and Hal David wrote, and that was the one that did it. And it did it because they recorded it

and I listened to it and I said, no, man, it's not right. It's not heavy enough. It needs more artillery. They recorded it again and Karen was still playing drums on it and rejected it. And the third time, they got the wrecking crew.

Joe Osborne was playing bass, and Cal was on drums, and they got the motor going. And then this great arrangement that Richard did, it was beautiful. And that was the big door opener for them. A&M did some of the first comedy records, didn't they? We did. Oh, man. This was a mistake. When we played in

New York for the first time, we were playing at the old Basin Street in New York, and who was opening the show for us? George Carlin, man, was opening the show, and he was he was fall down funny and he came in suit and tie and short hair and he was talking about commercials and

weather and all that and i recorded him and for some reason our our people didn't get it so it was never released really and man on on top of that one, in California, we played a series of colleges with the Tijuana Brass, and Woody Allen opened the show for us. Really? Yeah. In that short period that he was a stand-up. Yeah, yeah.

Only a couple years there. This was before the movies. Yeah. And he was drop-dead funny. Did you ever release any comedy records on a&m yeah we did uh did you do cheech and chong yeah well cheech and chong was on lou adler's label yeah yeah and uh so he had a label within a&m yeah we distributed his label okay so uh so that was really the first huge comedy record of the new comedy.

Yeah. And, of course, Lou had the Carole King record of Tapestry. Oh, yeah. That's a big record. And that was recorded in our Studio B. That's a huge record. Huge. So do you take any time in between moving out of that environment

and your job at a record company, do you take any time or do you just keep playing? Do you just sort of like... Yeah, I'm playing all the time. I mean, I play for my own pleasure. It's one of those things. If I'm down and I feel kind of the day ain't happening, if I go in my studio and pick up the horn

and start fooling around, playing various exercises, the beauty of being a musician and being an artist, you get to be in the moment of your life. That's the only thing that matters, is the thing you're doing at that moment. And your wife now is also a musician? My wife was the lead singer with Brazil 66. She was that voice.

Yeah. And that's how we met, and we were friends, you know, for some time before anything else happened. She's an outstanding artist. I mean, she's a world-class singer. So there's two of you in the house. Yeah. So we have a grand old time doing concerts around the country.

We just got back from Japan, and that was, except for the time change, it was fun. Yeah. Well, you got it all together. That's a gift, man. Yeah. I'll tell you what happened in Japan.

I didn't realize most of the people don't speak English, and when they do, you can't understand them very much. There's obviously some that really do well, and we were playing at this club. We were playing at the Blue Note Club,

and I started singing. I do that in the medley, This Guy's In Love With You. And they all started singing with me phonetically. Man, it was fantastic. Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful.

Yeah, that's been a beautiful LeBron for me. Doesn't that shit make you weep sometimes? Just with that joy of it? Like, you know, something about singing to me like i get very moved by it you know especially if there's a lot of people doing it

like i go to musicals i don't necessarily consider myself a musical lover but there's something about people singing and dancing it's just yeah well singing is quite a thing i had an experience watching um uh billy holiday believe it or not yeah this was maybe a few months before she passed on and uh she was singing here in los angeles at a place called i think it was jazz city or a place like that i don't know if i have the name right but anyway she was singing and the drummer behind her was and she turned around and looked at him and said, if you wish to solo, I will go out in front and listen to you.

I love that. Put that guy in his place. So this new record is now, now what do you do for labels now? How do you handle your relationship with the labels? Well, we have our own label. You do? Yeah, it's a wonderful little boutique label. It's out of my wonderful nephew's house, Randy.

Oh, yeah? Everyone's in the business. My pursuit always has been, if I can find a song that I like the melody, if I can do it in a way that hasn't been done quite that way before. Yeah, Chattanooga, I never heard Chattanooga choo-choo sound like that well check out uh uh um take the a train on

on the new album okay that's pretty amazing because it's not it's not written in three i do it in three four uh-huh it's written in four you know i always remember what uh picasso once said he said you can paint the same picture over and over again, but if you don't do it the same way, that's the way to do it. That's the trick. That's the trick.

What kind of rooms are you playing? Well, 900 to 1,200 to 1,400 people. Yeah. Nice venues. And some will play clubs.

We'll play clubs in like Jazz Alley in Seattle, which is, I don't know, maybe hold 400 people. it's it's fun i don't know i just i love to play man i just really do get off playing the trumpet and and who comes out you see a mixture of people i'm telling you man they're young to old it's beautiful

yeah it's uh when we first uh thought about getting a group together i was very reluctant i thought maybe okay i'm gonna go out there and people are going to say, play Taste of Funny, play all those records that I had hits with. And it hasn't been like that. People are accepting us on the level

that we're presenting it. It's beautiful, man. You've had an amazing life, sir. And I appreciate you sharing some time with me here. Ah, it's been fun. Thanks, man. There's more to come.

Yeah, I feel that. I definitely feel that. Thanks, man. There's more to come. Yeah, I feel that. I definitely feel that. Thanks, Herb. Thank you. Pretty lucid. Pretty lucid, man. I love when these old dudes can fucking talk

and they're still living life and they have, they have, you know, just a, you know, peace of mind. He's 80 years old, that dude. So that's our show. I hope you enjoyed that.

Go to WTFpod.com for all your WTFpod needs. I will play a little guitar, I think. You know, I need to take some time to learn some new stuff. But let me get it together here. Let me get it together. Thank you for listening. And I'll outro with something Boomer lives! cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to

an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. This episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Calgary is an opportunity-rich city, home to innovators, dreamers, disruptors, and problem solvers.

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