WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 685 - Scott Ian

Episode Date: February 29, 2016

Scott Ian is a founding member of Anthrax and one of the most respected metal guitarists in the world. But despite being in one of the four bands that brought thrash metal into the mainstream, Marc finds out that Scott’s musical awakening was spurred by Elton John and that he’s part of a storybook romance that wouldn’t be out of place in a pop song. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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product availability varies by region see app for details all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucksters how are you it's me mark maron this is wtf my podcast my uh guest is scott ian of anthrax today WTF, my podcast. My guest is Scott Ian of Anthrax today. Anthrax new record, For All Kings, is available now. Scott's book, I'm the Man, the story of that guy from Anthrax recently came out in paperback. Great guy. And I admittedly am not a guy that knows a lot about metal,

but God, I learned and I love this guy. I love Scott Ian. I met him. I'll talk about this when I'm bringing him up. Bringing him up? Where am I? The comedy club? Holy shit.

I'm taping a little later than usual tonight on Sunday night because I watched the Oscars. Because as some of you know, as people who have been listening to this show perhaps for years, I do enjoy to suspend any knowledge i have of show business and the personalities involved with show business and the actual business of show business

and uh and uh a lot of other things uh you know the i want to believe i in the magic of movie stars and i do i try to i try to, I try to, but I just, something is fading. I never thought I'd want less transparency when it comes to the truth of a particular business. But in a business that manufactures fantasies and powerful illusions that reveal important truths and and elevate the the human spirit and uh heart i want to know less about it i don't know i don't really want to hear all the

jokes about the millions of dollars people make and i wouldn't have minded a couple more dance numbers and i and i do like to not know a lot about my movie stars. I have this reverence for old Hollywood. Even though those people were probably just as rich and just as horrible as some of the people that exist there now. Somehow or another, I just feel like I know too much now. I feel like I can't be charmed anymore until until i i actually get a nice laugh out of my friend louis or i get a nice laugh out of my recent guest uh sasha baron cohen and chris rock and tina fey and uh gosling and crow were good and i never thought i'd miss song and dance numbers but it's interesting the experience you have there was something let

me try to get around to this. So I was at the Comedy Store Saturday night. I'll just roll you through it. And Chris Rock had been running his set there for about a week or so. I'd run into him a couple of times. I'd watch bits and pieces of it. But I usually just go in, do my work, and get out. Now, on Saturday night, this is an exciting night. Louie was in town Saturday night.

He was doing two two shows running a new new material at the comedy store in the main room he does that on the uh you know he'll just uh announce a couple days before and sell out the main room for a couple shows and do what he's gonna do i had a 10 30 spot in the original room down the hall from the main room i got there about 9 30 with sarah sarah cane the painter the girl and yeah we just eaten dinner I went in and it was between shows for Louis I went and said hi Sarah and I went backstage and he was just there lying there on his back alone thinking we chit-chatted for a while and then Sarah and I left and then I was gonna go down the hall to do my spot and then the manager Adam ran up to me and said Louis

wants to talk to you so I went back and he well, Chris was coming down to run his stuff for the Oscars, but it doesn't seem like he's coming. So do you want to do it? Do you want to do like 1520 in front of me and bring me up? And it's weird because I don't usually open for people, but it's my friend Louie. It's my home club. I've been feeling good in that room. I'm like, yeah, of course, that'd be a blast.

It's a packed house. And what ultimately happened was Chris Rock did come and Louie and I said, look, you know, Chris got to do this work. Let him do the work. And, you know, I don't need to go on. You know, it was nice of you to ask me, but he's like, no, both of you go on.

Both of you do 10. So I went on and I brought Chris on and then Chris brought Louie on. It was a hell of a night at the comedy store, which is a hell of a club. I can't say this enough. That place is the last real shit in this town. It's the last real place to see comedy in Los Angeles.

You can feel the history. You can feel the place is electric when it's electric. I cannot tell you enough. And to tell, you know, just go. Go take it in. It's sort of mind-blowing, man. You can feel all of it going all the way back to the 40s. So, you know, I watched Chris do this stuff.

And it was killing. It was great. Getting applause breaks. And he presented it as, you know, this is the stuff I'm doing tomorrow. And he'd been doing it all week. And it is a testament to, I don't know what, but to people's decency or perhaps their excitement about being part of the process that, you know,

no one leaked the jokes and, you know, they still had some weight to them. So after watching him do that and knowing that they were both going to be at the Oscars and I was going to be on my couch, it was exciting to watch for me and to see how those jokes did and to see the process. You know, Chris had a few writers with him. Louie was helping him out a little bit and he was trying to make this thing really resonate

and to really ride the line that Chris Rock can ride when he's when he's on the mark. And it was interesting, too, that, you know, that there was this balance to be made, you know, between a celebration of of talent and the industry and, and, you know, making movies, making pictures on all levels. And, you know, this sort of stark reality of a certain type of, uh, you know, prejudice. And, and even if it's just through negligence, uh, whatever, wherever it comes from, it obviously exists. And, and Chris had to ride that line. And I think he did it, uh, he did it beautifully, but But then it becomes here was the interesting thing to me is that it was the theme of the night, you know, that, you know, that it had a lot to do with Chris, that, you know, this was going to be the

theme of the night, the lack of diversity, the lack of black nominations, the lack of of black actors, you know, roles being available in Hollywood. And it's been around for a long time and Chris, your attention to that. But there is this moment where, you know, you think like, well, you know, are they, are they, are they, are they hitting it too much? You know, is this bit, is this theme? Are they, are they hitting it over the head too much? You know, there's this, oh, here's another bit about that.

And, you know, there is that instinct to sort of feel that, and I imagine some people will say that. But there was an interesting thing I learned, you know, from doing a week with Paul Mooney in Sacramento. You know, I was middling for Paul Mooney in Sacramento. I got it, it has to be 15 years ago, maybe a little less than that. And he would do two hours, two and a half hours. And I don't know if you know the amazing

Paul Mooney, but Paul Mooney is all about, you know, telling white people how racist they are and celebrating it. So there was an interesting thing that I learned about that because no one's going to argue that racism exists institutionally and also, you know, socially. And that, you know, certainly there's been progress, but, you know, clearly from the news and from reality and from this, the sole lack of conversation about class in this country. There's no denying that. So when you watch the Oscars and you're like,

oh, really, they're doing another bit on this. Aren't they hitting it too hard? Aren't they overdoing it? This bit, we get it. There's that notion of we get it. Okay, okay, yeah. But do you get it? Here there's that notion of we get it you know like okay okay yeah but but do you get it here's the the thing i learned with mooney is that you know how he would sit up there i didn't understand it at first like he would do two and a half hours these were primarily

white audiences and i just don't know why he stayed up there i don't know why he stayed up there you know uh and then you know you start to realize it now you know i talked to him a little bit about it is that if you think you're not racist you know and you think you're progressive and you think you're you know or you don't uh you just you don't have that in you sit in an audience and watch a black man call you out on it you know for two and a half hours and he's going to find it in you. He's going to find it in you. So there is this thing, well, you know, we get it, you know, and that's just, you know, it's like, all right, we get it. And that's just shy of when's this black guy going to shut the fuck up about this. So I don't think that there was too much. And I, and I, and I think that it

was important and it did occupy a tremendous amount of the proceedings. The venue had become politicized and it had to be addressed. And it was addressed. But again, I think there might have been a balance to be made with some fun dance numbers. I don't think necessarily Chris is the host to be involved in that, but they could have done a little more could have, uh, done a little more celebrating of, of show business, uh, you know, in the old timey way for,

for, for this getting old guy for my tastes, you dig. All right. Oh, spotlight. I called that. If you ask my producer,

Brendan McDonald, um, I called it. I said, that's the one to win. And, uh, because you know, it is, it's an amazing movie,

and it's about a horrendous thing. It's a very graphic and engaged and well-researched and compelling description of what journalism used to look like. It's an important fucking movie for the fact that, you know, what passes as journalism now is ill-referenced, you know, spontaneous, irresponsible garbage, mostly, mostly clickbait, mostly, you know, unconfirmed, unsubstantiated. So when you see what it looks like to take the time necessary to construct a narrative

that will reveal a truth, that will speak that truth to power and at least shake it at its foundation, if not topple it. It's an amazing thing to watch, and I have not seen anything like that since all the president's men. And quickly, I'd like to say that my friend of the show, Douglas Rushkoff, has a new book out. If you have a Howell Premium subscription, you can go listen to him on episode 404 of this show where he talks about the book present shock his new book is called throwing rocks at the google bus how growth became the enemy of prosperity that comes out tomorrow march 1st i like douglas rushkoff he's an exciting thinker and he's an exciting writer

so i wanted to throw him a little love but scott ian now here's the thing about scott is that you know i've been you know he's been around the comedy scene for a long time he's friends with brendan small with posain with uh ag you know like he's around i see him at these shows we do the music shows and i always liked him always a nice guy and people you know i always said like well come on but like i'm always nervous because a lot of times i have musicians on i'm not a metal guy really i mean i just got into black sabbath five fucking years ago my ex-wife mishna was a huge metalhead and i just was not on board because i didn't grow up with it but now over time you know you know as a as a man in his 40s and 50s

i'm uh i'm getting into metal finally thank you and uh And I was just nervous to have Scott on because I didn't listen to a lot of Anthrax, but I certainly did before he came on. I got to say, what a great fucking band. And I had no idea how important they were in metal until I started listening and I started doing a little research and I read a little of Scott's book. And now this guy who was just this nice guy with a funny beard who was hanging around, I realized that he's a very important fucking figure in the history of modern music and in the fucking definition of what metal is in its current state.

But what I found is that I was talking to another nice Jewish kid who chose to live a creative life. And we had a lot in common and some not in common but he's he's a sweetheart of a guy straight shooter decent dude and uh and the guitar player for anthrax so this is my conversation with uh with scotty calgary is an opportunity rich city home to innovators dreamers disruptors and problemvers. The city's visionaries are turning heads around the globe across all sectors each and every day. They embody Calgary's DNA. A city that's innovative, inclusive, and creative.

And they're helping put Calgary and our innovation ecosystem on the map as a place where people come to solve some of the world's greatest challenges. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look at CalgaryEconomicDevelopment.com. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton.

The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to kids night on Saturday, March 9th at 5. P.M. In rock city at Toronto rock.com. Scott, I've seen you around for a long time.

Yes. We've been planning on doing this for a while. Yep. And you're probably at, there were points where you were probably like, why is Marin blowing me off? No, I never thought you were blowing me off. I know how busy you are. I follow you on social media, so I always see who's going to be on.

And I'm like, all right, that guy's bigger than me. Well, here's the thing i'll be honest with you because i i feel like i owe it to you to be honest with you is that uh as much as i want to be a full-on metal guy i i just i missed it sure i missed like when you guys were huge i think i had to be about 50 maybe 10 years young We're the same age. Right. So I have to imagine when Anthrax got huge, it was primarily teenage dudes, right? Yeah, it was people our age and younger, obviously. Yeah. I just somehow, like, I missed it, so I feel insecure.

Like, you know, I like you. I've known you. The book is great. You wrote a real book. You know, I went and got all the anthrax records cool you know i did my homework right but not unlike when i had um who was it maynard in here uh i'm a little old to start getting into tool right you know but what i want you to do as we move through it, if you could, I need you to walk me through not only Anthrax, but what is the basic... Because look, I like all the sources of metal, but you guys sort of invented thrash metal,

right? One of the bands that they give credit to, yes. So what are the other ones? Metallica, Slayer, and Megadeth. What makes... Exodus should be in there too. Exodus? Yeah, they're also from the Bay Area.

What was the shift? Was Thrash Metal the first shift out of Black Sabbath into a new thing? Well, no, because after Sabbath, you had Priest, and then you had Iron Maiden and Motorhead. Motorhead, right. Yeah, and so for us, we liked all that stuff. Right. Motorhead, right. Yeah, and so for us, we liked all that stuff.

Right. But I would say our generation, certainly for me in New York and the other members of Anthrax, for us, Maiden and Motorhead were the two, those were the two that I think we felt the most akin to. Because Sabbath, I loved Sabbath since I was a kid, but they were even before my time in a sense. Like Zeppelin. Right. Sabbath started putting out records in 1970 or something. I't buying sabbath records when i was six right so it came later i went back and got you know i think my first sabbath record might have been like never say die and then i went back and got all the catalog but um for us for me maiden and motorhead

that's they were like that was my thing. I felt like they were mine. The older kids, they had Zeppelin and Sabbath. We had Priest and Maiden and Motorhead. But when you were a kid, when you started getting into that stuff, what, at 13 or 14? Yeah, right around there, like seventh grade, whatever that is. They were actually new, and it was a small audience wasn't it i mean at that time like it was sort of like punk rock or like right alongside of it in a

way or maybe that was a little later but but it seems to me that sabbath and zeppelin and all those fucking bands you know they were huge but like iron maiden and uh and motorhead were like you had to find those you had to go find those records, right? It was 1980. 1980 really was the year, because in that year, the first Maiden record came out, and that was the year Motorhead put out Ace of Spades, and I bought both those records that year, knowing nothing about the bands, just because I would go through the racks of the store near my house, and the album covers looked cool, so I would buy them. Right. And usually, the cool album cover meant the band was great at the time.

And, you know, in 1980, Sabbath, they put out Heaven and Hell, so they put out their first record with Dio, which was amazing. Ozzy was already out. Zeppelin was done, I guess, for all intents and purposes. Pretty much. I don't know. It went into the outdoor kind of thing. Yeah, right around then.

Yeah, yeah. And they were sort of neutered by that point in a way yeah so for us maiden and motorhead oh yeah and they were small i mean maiden supported priest their first time in new york open for priest at the palladium and but we all knew who they were you know yeah yeah happy to see both bands and saw motorhead open for ozzy my first time in new york as well. Ozzy Solo for a solo tour? Yeah, yeah, on Blizzard of Oz. And we just watched Lemmy. You know, he says it best every time he would start a show.

We're Motorhead, and we play rock and roll. And that was his life. He lived it and breathed it for 70 years, or however many years he was in Motorhead. But you know what I mean? He was the epitome you know I I look at him and Ozzy as the two biggest icons in the world of let's say oh Lemmy always said we're a rock and roll band yeah all us metalheads and all the punk rockers and the hardcore kids and hard rock people it was the one band everyone agreed on like we'd argue

all day long about everything else but Motorhead was the one band everyone agreed on. We'd argue all day long about everything else, but Motorhead was the one band everyone liked. And you used to hang out with them a lot? Yeah, yeah. I met him in 85 in London as a kid, going there to do interviews for my second album. Interviews? What do you mean?

Well, I'd go over to do promo for... Oh, right, right, right. So you were on a press tour. Right, right. And then do promo for... Oh, right, right, right. So you're on press tour. Right, right. And then my band started to happen, and we would cross paths quite a bit. And Motorhead were kind enough to take us on tour many times. Oh, yeah? Yeah.

So, yeah, we get to know each other. Yeah. For sure. So you're going to go speak tomorrow, huh? Yeah. Is that going to be a pretty uh interesting uh attended funeral i think so yeah i think it should be pretty rock and roll heavy i mean yeah you know what i i was really bummed the night i found i don't know if i'm divulging

too much information here but um i was actually we have the the same management we have for a while. And out of the blue, I get an email from my manager, Todd Singerman, and he's been with Lemmy probably 30 years or something like that. And he said, I wanted you guys to hear it first before it goes public tomorrow, but Lemmy's got terminal cancer. He's got two to six months. And we were in Woodstock, Pearl and I, and our son on vacation over the holidays. And I get this email and, like, my heart just sinks.

And, like, Pearl was, like, just coming out of the shower. I was like, oh, my God. And I couldn't even read it. I just showed her my phone, you know. And, like, she started crying. And I was, like, just super bummed out. And I'm like, what? You know, and uh like she started crying and i was like just super bummed out and i'm like what you know and i write him back and it's kind of this emails back and forth back and forth for about 15 minutes what happened blah blah blah and he's filling me in on all these details

and and uh and i just find myself getting more and more aggravated by the whole thing and i wrote him back i said you know what fuck this if anyone could defy this if anyone can defeat this bullshit it would be him yeah yeah the life he's he's lived you know yeah no way he's only got six months and then i i wrote the bottom of the email i said long live lemmy fuck cancer right right 30 seconds later the reply is they just called me he passed two minutes ago oh my god i i couldn God. I dropped my phone. I was in shock. Well, by the time they found it, wasn't it way...

I mean, my impression was that he was so used to feeling shitty that I don't think he even knew he had cancer. I mean, it seemed like it was pretty far along. Yeah. From what I was told, they didn't know he was terminal until just a couple of days before what i'm talking to you about um so they told me like a week ago but they told him he had cancer he's like i'm not gonna fucking deal with this yeah you know look i didn't get to see him or talk to him um from uh i could only surmise that he made the decision to truly

go out on top because they had just finished a European run that were some of the biggest headline gigs they've played in the history of their band. Lemmy certainly wasn't the kind of guy that wanted to waste away in a bed for two to six months. Yeah, yeah. That's not the way he would ever. I can't tell you how many times he would say to me over the years,

I'm going to die on stage, Scott. And I'm like, I believe you. He almost did. Yeah, he almost did. A couple times in this last tour. I mean, I know this sounds crazy and morbid and everything, but truly, if he would have dropped dead, like playing Ace of Spades at their last show in Germany,

then what could have been better than that? It would have been great. Yeah, it would have been, that truly would have been like, all right, end of story. So let's go back, Scott. Let's go back to when you were just a Jewish kid. Yes. I kind of still am that. We can't get rid of it.

I'm still talking about Lemmy the same way I did when I was 15. It's so funny, man. Like, well, there's part of, I don't know. I guess that's just respect. You know, I feel the same way about people. Like, when I interviewed Keith Richards, I almost shit myself. I can imagine. It was like fucking nuts.

Yeah. But you've been able, because, like, I never followed through the music dream. I mean, you've been able to play with almost all of your fucking heroes. Yeah. At some point or another. Who haven you acdc oh my biggest ones i yeah it's like they're the they're tell me he's not the best fucking guitar player in the world for sure both of both of them yeah they're my favorite band ever um most influential on me as a guitar player really yeah yeah malcolm's rhythm playing just his his pocket yeah feel somehow i i do my best to just transpose that into what i do in in anthrax i know we don't

sound anything alike but it's it's a feeling it's where he's putting the chords and how he's his way his right hand is moving and his his economical playing that's kind of how i always look at it it's very economical and i don't know how it is that they can be so fucking simple yet no one can fucking do what they do that's the thing it's a fucking magic trick yeah it is it's a magic trick because it's the most difficult thing to really get it right right it's easier to cover rush than it is to cover acdc and we've done both, and that's why I know. We've done both, and ACDC is much harder to do right. What is it, just the groove?

He's a tricky guitar player because he's all licks, and they've got nice space in them. Yeah, it's... He can't cheat. It's all of it. I think it truly is how simple it truly is. I'll be playing, covering their stuff, and I'll be playing, like, covering their stuff, and I'll be thinking, no, there's got to be more.

He's playing the chords more, but then you re-listen, and you're like, no, he's not. He's literally just, like, hitting it one time or something. Which covers do you usually do? Well, we've recorded. We've recorded TNT. We've recorded a whole lot of Rosie. I feel like I'm missing one.

But, I mean, I've done so many of them in Anthrax with friends let there be rock yeah a million times Down Payment Blues oh Down Payment Blues is the best so many we used to use that as a theme song

that's my favorite ACDC song mine too that's so fucked up that's so weird cause that's like not you know that's not one that everybody has yeah it's a deep track Because that's not one that everybody has. Yeah, it's a deep track, but it's something about that one.

I love the way it starts. Yeah. The opening chords, and then the second guitar comes in. It's crazy. His lyrics to that song too are just, you know, he's just telling the story. And it's, I don't know. It's just, for me, it epitomizes that band for some reason. So where'd you grow up as a Jewish kid?

Bayside, Queens. Wow, Bayside. Yeah. But like you were bar mitzvahed and everything? Uh-huh. Only because my grandfather was Orthodox and it was really important to him. My parents in the 70s weren't really,

we had a Christmas tree. We had one or two. Anyway, shape or form. You didn't go to Hebrew school? No. My mom asked me. My parents divorced. When was that?

How old were you? So I was 11. Oh, really? We lived in Queens, moved out to my, you know, parents bought a house on Long Island for three years. That turned into a complete nightmare. And parents divorced, and then me and my brother moved back to Queens, a few blocks from where we had lived before in Bayside. With your mother?

Yeah, with my mom and right into seventh grade. So it was like prime time, perfect. 1975, I was just going to turn 12. Were you pissed? Back in the city. No, I wasn't pissed. I couldn't have been happier, actually. Why?

Because they were miserable together? Well, they were screaming at each other. Screaming at each other and throw mine and my brother's G joe toys at each other oh really or my mom would throw the gi joe toys at the wall my dad wasn't a thrower it's your mom was he uh was the passionate one yes so it it was i was actually could have been happier i was back in queens where all my friends were who i went to first second and third grade with now i'm back and I'm starting junior high. And, like, you know, first day to school, some kid hands me a joint. I'm like, wow, things are different in the city than Long Island.

What town in Long Island were you in? We were, like, in Seaford. I don't even know where the fuck that is. Yeah, it's, like, by Wontaw, same area. So you're out there. It was, yeah. It's so funny that the picture of you and your dad when you were born, I have the same fucking picture

with my dad. The same Jewish profile. The same confused look. Holding the kid the same fucking way. Like, what am I going to do with this thing? What did your dad do? Jewelry business. Really? Yeah, in the jewelry business. In the city or out there? In the city.

Yeah, in the city. So you're 12 years old. You're smoking weed. Before your bar mitzvah. Did you see Serious Man? Did you see that movie, the Coen Brothers movie? No, I haven't seen that. You've got to watch it, dude. Yeah, I have to see that.

Kid gets high in the bathroom before he gets his bar mitzvah. Oh, I didn't do that. It's hilarious. I got pretty drunk that night, though. We had a party in our apartment, my mom's apartment, after. Oh, yeah, the bar mitzvah party? All the kids come? Yeah, all the kids came.

I never went to Hebrew school. My parents gave me the choice. Do you want to go to Hebrew school? I was like, hell no. All my friends who went to Hebrew school were miserable in Hebrew school. And I'd go to these bar mitzvahs, and they'd be singing for three hours. This is insane. My mother, do you want to go I was like nope I'm gonna stay home and play guitar and ride my skateboard like that's what I'm gonna do so when I did it it was transliterated for me

it took about four minutes it was literally baruch atah you know in English right couldn't have been easier but my grandfather was happy that's I remember. And he was up there with you for a minute? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I remember it was some weird place in Forest Hills. They had a hard time finding a place that would bar mitzvah me because, well, because I really didn't know it. But also, like, I don't know.

It had something to do with, or the docks are not, and all the ladies had to sit, like, in the back. Oh, really? Yeah. One of those places? It was like an intense room. Oh, yeah. Tough room.

Yeah. All the ladies are in back. Yeah. A lot of judgment on the faces of the bearded men. Exactly. Oh, so your grandfather set it up somewhere. Yes. He probably slipped them a few bucks.

Probably. Kid doesn't know what he's doing. Yeah, exactly. Help me. We got to get him in. Yeah. So I passed. Oh, good, good. when when did you first start

playing though um before that when we were in long island like i was probably it was probably like 73 so i was nine years old um i saw i saw the who on tv on something i saw pete townsend breaking guitars as he was doing his windmill. Yeah, yeah. I just thought it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. And I said to my dad, I want to play guitar. I would love to play guitar.

And there was an acoustic guitar in the house. Not quite sure why because, like my dad knew like two chords but he never played guitar. Well, that's the way

he probably did what my dad did. They bought it once. They got, you know, they learned three folk songs. Yeah. And then it sat there. There was a harmony guitar

in my house. Yeah, there was some acoustic guitar always sitting around the house. Steel, nylon? Nylon strings. And so I remember picking it up and trying to do a windmill

and all that. And then I started guitar lessons and I loved it. Yeah. Until my teacher was like, it became homework, like writing out charts and theory.

And I was like, fuck this. Yeah, I couldn't do it. This sucks. I don't want to. I would say I want to learn, teach me communication breakdown. Give me the chords. Yeah, I just want to learn how to play songs. He's like, oh, you have to learn this.

And he was like a cool dude. He was like 17 or 18 with long hair, and he had a strat, and he played in a band. Was he a wizard? Could he really play? Did he show off to you all the time? Yeah, he could totally play. he had a strat, and he played in a band. Was he a wizard? Could he really play? Did he show off to you all the time? Yeah, yeah. He could totally play. I remember his name, Russell Alexander.

Oh, yeah. And I thought he was the coolest guy in the world. They always are. Until he wanted me to do homework. I was like, I'm not doing homework. I just want to learn how to play songs by bands. I was like, I don't believe that. I don't think Jimmy Page ever sat around.

He probably did. He probably did. Out Page ever sat around. He probably did. Out of all of them, he probably did. So then I got sick of it, and after six months, I said to my parents, basically, I don't want to take lessons anymore. I just want to do it on my own. And I'm sure they probably thought, oh, that's it. The guitar's going to go in the corner and collect dust.

But no, I worked twice as hard, because I would just sit with records and learn songs. And then you have chord books no i just ear my ear i i was able to just listen and you know and figure out what they were doing oh really yeah you know you're at that point when you're just a total beginner and like going from a g to a c chord seems like i i'll never be able to do this right exactly i can remember that like where how do you actually go from court to court without stopping and you know i can remember feeling that yeah and then all of a sudden one day you're going from court to court you're like oh my god it's the coolest thing in the world yeah it was the first song you learned all the way through wipe out oh really yeah like the safari well that was ago because you could do that by ear right

i had to learn I learned that. I learned Bad, Bad Leroy Brown, and I learned Blown in the Wind. I used to play Bad, Bad Leroy Brown, too. I played those at a talent show in the fourth grade. So when did you start playing with people? I mean, what was it that compelled you to start playing with people? Because to me, sitting in the house just playing guitar was literally jerking off.

Yeah, I still do it. Yeah, you know what I mean? That's all I do. It's like for me as a kid even, they were both parallel for me. I wanted to play guitar with other people or I wanted to have sex with girls. I didn't want to just stay at home and go like this. So I was always looking for other kids to play with.

And when we moved back to Queens, there was no other kids playing guitar on Long Island. I was totally... Come on. No. Like where I was, nobody cared. All these kids, all they cared about was street hockey. That's all anyone did in my neighborhood was like play street hockey. Really?

Yeah. And then at night, they would go to the Overpass and drink To which was like some crappy vodka orange juice mick pre-mix thing and these are like 12 year olds like yeah and uh and i i wasn't ready for that so i would sit in the basement and play with my hot wheels and play guitar like through the records yeah yeah yeah and uh i had a my my cousin eddie who's my dad's cousin, I guess my second cousin. He was like a biker dude, and they lived not far from us. And once in a while, we'd go over there, and down in their basement, they had all amps and drums.

Those places, the first time you walk into that kind of place, you're like, what the fuck? Black light posters and all these biker dudes in vests, long hair, smoking weed, and they'd all be down there just jamming. I'd be like, this is the coolest thing. Yeah. But they wouldn't. I couldn't jam with them.

Why? Because I was a kid. I'd just sit on the side with my jaw on the floor. But were they playing like old hippie rock? Who even knows? Yeah, I don't even know. I just remember like wah-wah pedals. Oh, man.

But once I got back to Queens, I immediately started meeting kids in seventh grade, like in the neighborhood, who played guitar-wah pedals. Oh, man. But once I got back to Queens, I immediately started meeting kids in seventh grade, like in the neighborhood, who played guitar, played drums. So out on the island, they didn't do nothing. No. That's where the hockey was out on the island. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Once I was back in Queens, yeah.

That's where they all were, right? Yes. Everybody was playing. Yeah. And who would you meet? Did any of them make it into Anthrax? Not the initial, initial kid. What's your real last name

rosenfeld scott ian rosenfeld i got rosenfeld do we fucking relate to you i got rosenfeld i do so no no one made it into anthrax from the original crew no because that didn't anthrax really didn't start to like take shape until probably it was probably in like 1980 when uh danny lilker who was the original bass player in anthrax um we became friends in school probably about i don't know 79 or something like that and uh and then we would walk to school together every day and talk about metal and music and blah blah blah and uh he was in a band called white heat at the time yeah yeah we're actually already playing gigs in the city and they were like we were all the same age you know 15 16 what were they playing what kind of music like they had

their own songs they had originals and it was like metal hard rock metal and uh and they would play gigs in manhattan which was like the coolest thing in the world. Yeah. To me. Like, wow, you guys actually play in the city. And their singer at the time, this guy Marco, he, I think, lived in Manhattan, which was like unfathomable to me. But he didn't grow up there?

He just lived there? I'm not sure. I don't remember. And I would always say to Danny, because he learned about Anthrax in high school. He learned about it in, I think it was biology class or something one day. And he said, I learned about this thing called Anthrax today. And I was like, that sounds really cool. That sounds like a metal band name.

One of these days. So I would say it all the time. When white heat breaks up, you and I are going to start a band called Anthrax. Because we would jam all the time. Every day we were at one or the other's house jamming. What would you play? Tons of Sabbath. What was the first band that blew your mind though outside of The Who

where you were like, fuck. I mean, it was a non-stop. Just non-stop. From early on, Elton John was probably the first thing I really really really fell in love with. My dad took me to see Elton John in like 74 at Nassau Coliseum. Oh yeah?

Yeah. What album was he touring? Like, was that Goodbye Yellow Brick Road or something? Like. Yeah, or Don't Shoot Me on the Piano Player. Oh yeah. So real early shit. Yeah.

Elton John for me kind of really kind of opened the door. Yeah. I think for me. And then after that, it just, not long after that was Kiss. Like, that and that for me was, because my parents liked Elton John, too. My parents listened to pretty cool music. Like, I remember the Woodstock album being on all the time, and they loved the band, you know.

Yeah. There was a lot of good music in the house, but Kiss was my thing. They didn't want anything to do with that. Well, that was special for just you. And kids of that decade and that age, the Kiss Army, they were designed for fucking kids who didn't know what to do with their dicks yet, but were sort of full of it. Exactly. They mainlined. That was heroin for me and my friends.

For real. Yeah. I was into three things when I was 12 years old. I was into comic books, I was into horror, and I was into rock music. Yeah. And they put it all in one fiery, bloody package. And when I heard rock and roll, I heard rock and roll all night on the radio. Yeah.

In the car with my mom, like 72 yellow ford torino station wagon yeah and uh i heard that on the radio and i was like all right that's the best song i've ever heard but the dj never back announced it so i didn't know who it was and then like a week later yeah i'm watching something in the afternoon on tv it's just on yeah and i see these four dudes in makeup and i'm kind of like, who the hell are those guys? And my, you know,

my initial instinct was, that, they look really, this looks stupid. Yeah. I don't like this. Like, I don't like it.

And then they're like, here they are, kissed with their new hit, Rock and Roll All Night. I was like, whoa, that's them? And then instantly just fucking needle into the vein,

like. And you got, that was it, your full the vein. That was it? Your full-on kiss? That was it. Done. From 75 through 78. Kiss Alive. I bought Kiss Alive that year for my dad for his birthday

because I had like $6 to buy my dad a birthday present. So I bought Kiss Alive knowing he was just going gonna say thank you and hand it back to me and uh that was it from Kiss from basically so from and I went out and bought the first three records um and then of course every six months they were releasing as bands did in the 70s every six months there was a new album yeah and but I only lasted till 78 to like uh love gun alive too and then they put out the four solo records yeah of which i only really liked aces and then that was it as hard as i was into them by like 79 i went to nassau coliseum to see kiss judas priest and left after judas priest like i didn't even care about kiss anymore were they

open for him jud Judas Priest opened. And you were like, that's the new thing. Yeah, me and my friends, we went to see, we were only going to see Priest. Oh, really? Yeah. Don't get me wrong. Those three years of Kiss and all those old records,

I still love them now like I did in 1977. Right, right, right. But by 79, just musically, I had moved past that. Sure, musically and emotionally. Yeah. You know, like's it's sort of funny so you know like the the anger or whatever was in you that compelled you towards metal was sort of like yeah i needed heavier harder faster like just everything yeah you know

and the judas priest was like oh my god i think no one they were like like like how could anything be heavier than sabbath you know right right like you know well because there's two guitars yeah like and they brought speed to it too yeah yeah they and there's like double bass drumming in it and like just like you'd never heard it and it was creepy and like even darker and doomier and rob halford singing those high notes just like holy shit you know and yeah of course i was into tons of shit I mean, everything great in the 70s from every rock band, hard rock, and even disco. I love disco. I never told anybody I love disco because I had my disco sucks t-shirt.

Sure. But I fucking loved it. Great players, great grooves. You got to keep up appearances, Scott. Great pop songs. No doubt. And if you put on, you know, you could put on a Chic record at a party and maybe a girl will dance with you and then possibly kiss you. They're not doing that to fucking Judas Priest.

No girls in the room. Yeah. And if they are, they're drunk. Yeah. And they're throwing up on themselves. Like when you're sitting in a room arguing over, well, who's the better lead guitar player, Richie Blackmore or Joe Perry? That's it. That's a pussy dryer.

There might be one sleeping girl with a feathered haircut who might burn herself with her cigarettes on the couch. Right. So, you know, disco had it. It definitely had its purpose, too. Oh, that discussion. Richie Blackmore or Joe Perry. But yeah, I was into everything.

I mean, I couldn't get enough music. Punk rock yet? Oh, yeah, yeah. For sure, the Ramones. You know, the Ramones lived in Forest Hills, so I remember seeing them on the Sha Na Na TV show. Oh, my God. Because we used to watch that with my parents.

They loved that show, so I used to watch Sha Na Na every week, that weird variety show they had. Yeah, yeah, yeah, with Bowser. Yeah, and the Ramones were on one time, and I was like, whoa, who are these dudes? Yeah. Like, playing super fast, and they looked like me. They were wearing Levi's and a leather jacket, and they had long hair.

Yeah. And then I remember, like, picking up a copy of Cream or Rock Scene magazine or something and finding out that the Ramones were from Queens, like, from Forest Hills specifically. Like Circus or Crawdaddy or... Yeahdy or all those magazines that aren't around anymore. So I'm like, that's just a few miles from here. And look, those guys are on TV. If they can do it, I can do it. I never said that about Kiss.

That was unreachable. But the Ramones, I was like, I can do that. I can play guitar just like Johnny Ramone. So I was way, I saw him at Queens College in 79. Like I was way in the. Well, it's funny if you really think about it and I'm sure you have. I mean, it's just funny graduating from,

you know, Kiss, which, you know, after a certain age, they are sort of clowns. Right. And then to Judas Priest, which they were more menacing in their stage. Oh, yeah. There was a lot of stage, um you know show yeah theatrics

theatrics but but they were it was different right and now we know it was like you know a little gay yeah a little bit and uh but then like um the ramones because i think that if i listen to anthrax correctly i mean it seems like he probably influenced you more than most people johnny johnny ramone yeah oh yeah his Oh, yeah. His down-picking style, you know, just that... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just constantly. Of course, in the type of music we play, we add it in the palm mute when we're down-picking. Sure, right, right, right.

So it gives it that chunking edge instead of just open strings, but... A little more distortion, too, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Much more distorted tone than Ramone's. But yeah, his aggressive right hand was a big influence on me. Yeah, yeah. So when did you put the original lineup together?

It was in 81. I had a band called- We graduated college in 81, didn't we? Or high school in 81. Graduated high school in 81, yeah. And I had a band called 4X, named after the condom. I have no idea why. Yeah. I had a band called 4X, named after the condom. I have no idea why. And so we, not that we didn't do anything.

We would rehearse and we'd play like at the high school battle of the bands and things like that. But we put together, one night we had a jam session at some rehearsal studio not far from where we lived in Bayside. And it went, it was me and Danny Locher and some of the guys from 4X and this kid John Connelly who we knew from high school. He was singing and just jamming on cover songs. Yeah.

But it just went so well. Something sparked in the room. Like we played Maiden covers better than we had ever played Maiden covers with anyone else before. Yeah. And Danny Locher's band had broken up, White Heat. covers better than we had ever played maiden covers with anyone else before yeah and uh and danny looker's band had broken up white heat and and we looked at each other and i said this is it man this is anthrax this is the band he's like okay yeah and like you guys want to be in a band

yeah let's be in a band and that was the official start july 18th 1981 because i put it on a calendar the summer after high school graduation yeah we the night anthrax was formed and we just started rehearsing rehearsing rehearsing danny already had some songs and some riffs that we kind of hijacked from his old band white heat yeah and then we just kind of rewrote stuff so we just dove in and just did our best to write our own material right from the start and and how long did it take to put together the first record when did that happen i started in 81 you know numerous lineup changes going through singers get why no i look at like not not being a full anthrax nerd

that lineup changes are ridiculous dude but especially a dude i mean no one even knows the lineup changes from 81 till till end of 82 or early 83. Those two years trying to put the lineup together that was actually going to record our first album. Right. Because, you know, you'd get a dude in the band who's like a great guitar player or something, but wouldn't chip in for the rehearsal spot. So, like, all right, you're out. You know, fuck you.

Yeah. Everyone's got to chip in. Ten bucks. You're in the band. Chip in. No, I ain't paying no money, money. All right, you're fired. So there was a lot of that going on.

You know, dudes who'd be in the band for a week. Right. But who were the, like, the core was you and Danny, right? It was me and Danny Looker, and then Neil Turbin, who sings on the first album. Right. He went to high school with us, so we got him. And then the key, the real key, was when we had this drummer, Greg D'Angelo, who was a great drummer,

but really couldn't play the double kick. He couldn't play that fast double bass drumming that we wanted in our sound. And he ended up quitting the band after Anthrax and Metallica played this shithole of a club in in jersey and after the show he tells us i'm leaving i'm leaving the band i'm joining this band cities which at the time they were kind of this hot band they could like pack lemours in brooklyn and and uh it was like really and i got all i'm like really like those guys that that shit ain't gonna last you know that's like there already is a van halen you know that shit ain't gonna last you know that's like there already is a van halen you know that shit

ain't gonna last because it's kind of what it sounded like right right and uh and he's like well whatever anyway you know i'm joining cities of my art you know and i i was kind of a dick and yeah about it and and we weren't friends for a long time after that but it was the best thing that ever happened because through a mutual friend this this guy Tom Brown, he said, you guys need a drummer. My friend Charlie, he's like the best drummer in the world. And that was Charlie Benanti, who then Danny Looker and I soon after that went to his mom's house. And he had a drum set upstairs. This is in Throg's Neck in the Bronx.

Throg's Neck. Yeah. And he had a drum set up in a small, half the size of this room. He had like this 12-piece giant drum kit with toms and cymbals everywhere. We're like squeezed in there with two little amps, and we just start jamming on Maiden and Motorhead. And there was a song by a band called Accept at the time called Fast as a Shark, which was the standard of like they had set the bar for double kick,

like ticka-ticka-ticka-ticka-ticka-ticka. It was like the fastest double kick anyone had ever heard. And he's like, please don't ask me to play Fast as a Shark. And I'm like, you can play Fast as a Shark? Yeah. And he's like, yeah. And we're like, all right, we don't know the whole song, but we know how to get into it.

And we start jamming it, and he plays ticka-ticka-ticka. He's playing it faster than Accept. And me andy are just like you know just boner you know you want to be in the band you want to be in the band and it took a few months of like convincing and this and that and but charlie joined the band and then that was it like then we you know we basically that was the whole sound yeah that was it like he he he completed us wow so but he stayed with you for like uh danny didn't stay no danny got fired by our then singer neil because neil didn't like the fact that there was somebody taller than him get the fuck out of here why'd you let that happen you had to respect the singer singers are crazy right right? It's the worst still to this day. The one decision that was made that I wish I would have just.

But at the time, we had finished a record. We had a record literally done. It's going to come out. And he gave us the ultimatum. It's either him or me. And how could we have lost our singer with a record about to come out? Everyone was like, we can't. We can't lose our singer.

What are we going to do? And I was sick to my stomach because Danny was my best friend. So that was the worst thing that I ever had to deal with in the context of being in a band, was literally making that call to Danny. Because he called me up and said, dude, what's going on? Neil just called me and said, I'm out of the band. And I was like, what?

And, you know, I'll call you back. And then we're all on the phone and we're talking to our manager, Johnny Z, and blah, blah, blah. And what are we going to do? You know, we can't lose our singer. And it sucked. And Johnny Z said you got to. He didn't tell us you have to. You know, it was our decision.

Did you and Danny become friends again? Yeah, we did. We obviously we kind of lost touch. He started his band called Nuclear Assault. It was our decision. Did you and Danny become friends again? Yeah, we did. Obviously, we kind of lost touch. He started his band called Nuclear Assault. But then a couple of years later, I did this side thing called SOD, the Stormtroopers of Death, and it's just this ridiculous inside joke of a record of kind of hardcore metal crossover sound. Which one?

Speak English. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I had written like 10 of these songs already, and then I called Danny. I said, hey, I'm writing these crazy like 30-second songs and 60-second songs, and you want to come up to Ithaca? That's where Anthrax was recording our second album. And you want to come up and just fuck around with this?

And he did, and we finished that record, and that's a different thing. But yeah, we reconnected on that and and uh you know you're okay now yeah totally okay okay yeah yeah yeah this is like you got over the 18 year old horrible moment yes i was able to get over that so but uh that that band that that record sold good right yeah yeah that was which like i said it's just a thing that made us laugh. But it was brutally heavy at the same time. And yeah, it did really well. After Anthrax blew up, when Anthrax started to blow up in 87,

because SOD came out in 85 and no one was paying that much attention to it. We had like a core group of kids in New York. But nobody really knew about it. But then when Anthrax started to blow up, people found out about S.O.D., and then that blew up as well. How'd the first record do? Fistful did okay. Whatever that was back then, it sold in the tens of thousands.

And it got you on the road opening for Big Axe? No. We went out with a band called Raven, who were also just... They were from Newcastle, England, just they were from newcastle england and yeah they were from that kind of scene if you've seen the anvil movie yeah raven same exact story but for like new yeah but from newcastle and but same exact story on the cusp of making it massive yeah and then uh-huh but uh um but at the time were bigger than us. Metallica's first tour of the U.S. in 83, they supported Raven,

and then in 84, we supported Raven, summer of 84, but the last show of that tour was at the Roseland Ballroom in New York, sold out 3,500 tickets instantly, Raven, Metallica, Anthrax, and of course that's when record labels were like, huh, who are these bands selling 3,500 tickets

with just an indie record deal we were all on this you know megaforce records johnny z's label and you and metallica yeah do you know you've had a relationship with metallica for like 30 40 years showed up in new york in a u-haul yeah yeah it's just literally the day they pulled in from san francisco so it's almost 40 years dude oh yeah 82 it's crazy It's crazy, right? Yeah. Wow. 30, yeah. So that night at Roseland, all the labels were there scouting, and right after that, basically, Metallica signed to Elektra,

we signed to Island, and Raven signed to Atlantic. Yeah, and then the story goes. Yeah, that was it. Right, but Raven was gone. Raven made it like one or two records on Atlantic, and then that was it right right but raven was gone raven made it like one or two records on atlantic and then that was it done so how did you guys now you you guys just got offered did did uh did um electra offer you a deal as well or was there a bidding war did you what was no at the time um i think it was kind of cut and dry. They were all under the same Time Warner.

Oh, okay. Atlantic, Elektra, and Island. Right. I wasn't behind the scenes with Johnny, obviously, in on any of those dealings, but that's how it all played out. Johnny D? Yeah, and Island was very, very excited for us,

and we liked the fact that we were going to a label that had no other hard rock or metal bands. Elektra and Atlantic had tons of hard rock and metal. Well, this is sort of the birth of the new generation of metal, right? Yeah, exactly. And Mustaine was in Metallica at the time? He was already out of Metallica. Already gone?

Yeah. Yeah, he was out of Metallica. He had Megadeth already. Yeah. Who also had their first record out at the time. So all you guys were getting the deals. And then you did your second album. You stayed with Johnny Z?

Yeah. Yeah, Johnny was with us all the way through to 1993 or 94 so but you went through a few labels no we were on island that whole time yeah um when did you hook up with the the thing with joey uh joey that that happened we fired that for that guy neil right after that tour right after that roseland show you What, did he become a bigger dick? Well, yeah, it was, he became impossible. Like, it literally became, we never could have moved forward as a band if he was going to stay in the band,

and we made the decision to make a change. And so he was gone. We had already written most of Spreading the Disease. We went in the studio. That album was, like was basically done, recorded, and we didn't have a singer. Right. The guy who was producing that record, Carl Kennedy,

he had seen Joey playing in this band called Bible Black and somehow got his phone number and asked if he wanted to come down and just check out what was going on with this band Anthrax. Nobody knew who the fuck we were. We weren't anything yet. And this was before the second album. Yeah, yeah. and uh he came down the other guy and walked in and he went out on the mic and we're all in the control room and he's like what do you want me to do he

didn't know our songs yeah like i don't know sing whatever and he like started like just singing like like oh sherry from steve perry and foreigner and like whatever and oh that shit yeah and his voice was incredible like we were like holy crap this what a Steve Perry and Varner and like whatever. Oh, that shit, yeah. And his voice was incredible. We were like, holy crap, what a voice on this guy. Real singer. Everyone was like looking at each other like, because all the other bands of our ilk just had guys who they just, you have the least offensive bark.

You could at least bark all night. Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah. So, and now we had a singer singer like and like i remember like johnny z and like everyone's like this is the guy that's gonna set you apart and it was true you know because we had like we always looked at anthrax even though we loved motorhead yeah we always looked at as anthrax as more of judas priest or iron maiden who had like real

singers um as much as we love Motorhead, we wanted a guy like that. We wanted like a Bruce Dickinson or Rob Halford. And we found it with Joey. And he did the second record and the third. How many records total? Yeah, he did Spreading and Among and State of Euphoria, Persist the Time,

Attack of the Killer Bees. And then that got us into like 92 and then that's when we made the the change and joey was out and john bush was in so those records among the living was the big one right that's the one that broke us yeah and when when like what was the when you say what was the build like so among the living when you're touring among the living who you touring with we no one we were headlining okay that that tour started at like the penny arcade in rochester new york i think in like may of 87 we sold out but whatever it held 500 people or something yeah but by december of 87 we were playing to five six seven eight thousand people a night

holy shit happened it was like that fast and what do in in that but that was among the living then yeah and then that it just spread because that's things just spread then with metal heads they're like these are the ones the wave we were a part of like literally broke with us and metallica and slayer and megadeth um you know metallica definitely opened the door um for because they they were like six months ahead of everybody else or a year ahead because their first album came out like that about that long before the rest of our debut records right so metallica had already like went out and opened for ozzy yeah and had spread this new sound around the country in a very big mainstream way and right people so people were looking for more of it and you know so for us right album right place right

time but the entire culture of metal changed and you're part of the shift yeah and and then there's all these new fucking 15 year old guys who are like holy shit yeah like you were when you were with kiss yeah for sure that was it through the 90s you were playing arenas or through the late 80s no the 80s yeah pretty much through the late 80s into into the early 90s we'd become like yeah that type of band anywhere from you know 5 000 to 15 000 depending on the on the market and you know started playing festivals in 87 we played the castle donnington monsters of rock thing in england to 80 000 people not headlining bon jovi headline but but that day when cinderella was weird though that bon Jovi headlined. But that day when Cinderella was-

Isn't it weird, though, that Bon Jovi headlined, and even with the prominence of the music you were playing, those hard rock guys, they still fucking held on. Oh, well, this is also Europe where you'd have bills, more eclectic bills like that. Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you could have Anthrax and Metallica on that same bill that day with Bon Jovi,

and everybody was kind of there to see everybody. Right. Even even though i guess that's the way a big festival works generally 40 50 000 people were losing their shit for anthrax and metallica right crazier that even though bon jovi went over just fine there was a certain intensity level and of course then that opened the floodgates for us in the uk and Europe. Right. But here, like, that's like different armies. Yeah, of course. You know, like, you could never, I mean, if Bon Jovi showed up on a bill with Megadeth or Metallica or you, it would be like, what?

Yeah, no, it wouldn't have worked. No way. Case in point, we're out with Ozzy. We're opening for Ozzy in 88 for, like, two months at the end of 88. And our last show on the tour was New Year's Eve at Long Beach Arena. Right. And then he was going on in January, but we were done. And apparently what happened was there was never an announcement

that Anthrax wasn't still going to be out with Ozzy. And he shows up at the next show. I think it was Reno after L.A. a couple of days later. And you have an arena full of kids expecting anthrax and he had winger if you remember them the band that the kid from beavis and butthead you know yeah yeah and uh winger comes out on stage and did not go over well so that's you know basically, what you were saying. Did you get to know Ozzy?

Yeah, yeah, for sure. He was a sweetheart, man. He'd come in our dressing room all the time. Hang out. Couldn't have been nicer. Yeah. Nicest guy ever. Now, you guys, you got pretty,

the sort of crossover with Public Enemy was sort of a big deal. Right. Like, it was like, because people were like, what? Like, it was uh how did how did that all transpire that you guys uh you covered a public enemy yeah the short story is three of us charlie frankie and i being from queens in the bronx where we were kind of in the epicenter of of rap music in the early 80s and as many of my friends who hated it well i loved it i loved rap and run dmc moved me the same way Maiden did.

Yeah. And so when Public Enemy, we had already did this song, I'm the Man. Anthrax did this thing called I'm the Man, which was our first platinum record, which was literally a joke. I played the riff to Havana Guia, and we wrote stupid lyrics making fun of ourselves over it.

It was like the rap we were listening to at the time. Right, right, right. And it blew up. It became this massive thing. But we opened the door for ourselves to do something better and more serious. And as soon as I heard Public Enemy, I just knew I had to work with Chuck D at some point.

To me, his voice was like the heaviest thing I had ever heard. And his voice and my guitar together would just be the ultimate thing and uh um so we just made that happen we became friends and then at some point we were just able to make that happen by force of will yeah yeah like we we recorded a track and we sent it to him and we said we want to do bring the noise and the whole world was against us chuck was like that's kind of redundant. Why don't we write something new?

And Rick Rubin was like, it's kind of redundant. Why don't you do something new? And our label's like, we don't want to work with Def Jam and Def Jam's, we don't want to work with them and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then Chuck, we mailed the tape from L.A. where we were in the studio. It takes a week to get there to him in Long Island. He finally hears it. He calls me up.

He says, Scotty, this is slamming. It's on. Let's do it. And that's took was you know him to finally hear it and then say yes i understand now let's go do it yeah yeah and uh do you are you guys still friends yeah yeah we just they were on tour uh public enemy and the prodigy were just on tour while we were on tour in europe just uh october november de. We had a night off in Munich. So Frankie, our bass player, and I went. We did Bring the Noise with P.E. at their show. And then I just saw Chuck because we did some interview together for Metal Hammer Magazine in the U.K. So we did a photo session together in Sheffield, of all places, in December.

So, yeah, I was still in touch with Chuck, still talk. I love to hear that I love because like I I'm naive when I have actors or musicians or anybody I just assume everybody's buddies so I like when people still have relationships with people it's most of the time it's it's the other way yeah it's not and a lot of a lot of times just sort of like I never see that guy right but like you know what I mean it seems like you you've you've kept some relationships throughout the years. I have, yeah.

Especially with Chuck. He's like, he's the man. I got to get him in here. He's the man. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He changed the world. Yeah. Right?

He did. And you seem like a pretty pleasant guy. You don't seem like an asshole. Who, me or Chuck? You, you. I mean, I think that determines. I think I could be pretty antisocial. My wife sometimes has to give me the, you know, like, be nicer or like talk or, you know.

But that's because sometimes I just get bored when I'm somewhere and I'm just kind of in my head like listening to Iron Maiden in my brain or something while everyone else is doing whatever they're doing. Now, you've been married twice? Three times. Three times? Yes. When did you get married the first time? 87. Oh, yeah? else is doing whatever they're doing now you've been married twice three times three times yes when'd you get married the first time 87 oh yeah that lasted two years almost to the day yeah yeah nightmare i just should have never been married i was 22 years old and and uh just like the band was just starting to happen so it was like bad decision i was basically too much of a

pussy i would have to say at the time to break up break up so decision i was basically too much of a pussy i would have to say at the time to break up break up so yeah i was just being a nice jewish boy and doing what i was supposed to do i did that man yeah i did it lasted longer than two years went on for a while yeah two years and isn't that weird where you have that decision where it's sort of like i know i need to get out but you want to get married yeah it was it was terrible i was you know i was cheating on her you know where i was on tour i wasn't being faithful it was terrible i was you know i was cheating on her you know where i was on tour i wasn't being faithful it was and she was from the neighborhood or what yes well not the same neighborhood but yeah queens and yeah and uh you know it was

everyone had the plan for us and be married you can have kids you buy a house at forest hills blah blah blah you know she had a really good job and um yeah but i was like no way there's no way so it ended badly yeah no money though i had money yeah from the first record well no this is 89 is when like and then into 90 and so yeah i was already making money and yeah and so i i literally that i was tapped after that every i i bought an apartment in in queens and I had a car, and I had some money in the bank, and I had nothing. I literally moved to California at the end of 89. After the divorce, you had nothing?

Yeah, nothing. Whatever I had, I put in the truck that was driving Anthrax's gear to L.A. to record an album, and I was like, oh, free move. I'm getting out of New York. I put whatever I had on the truck and came to Los Angeles to record which Persistence of Time

wow and how did that woman turn out alright yeah she's fine I mean I'm not in touch with her no of course but you heard things you didn't hear things no I do hear things but yeah she's fine she's got kids oh yeah it's hear things no i i do hear things yeah but uh yeah she's fine she's got kids oh yeah it's bad it's nicer when it works out yeah when you're the asshole it's

better what you know it's nice to hear like oh she's better off way better off trust me i didn't look until i met pearl anything i did previous to that was, you know, I apologize to everyone and anything. Who was the second one? Second one was I moved. That's one of the main reasons I came out to California. She's one of the women I was cheating on my first life with. But I put that more on her than on me. I was in for the long haul on that one, and I'd have to say she definitely wasn't.

How long did that last? Let's say 90 to 97. We weren't married that whole time. We got married in that window. But then, yeah, then that was done. For me, 97 to 2000 were like my that's my crazy years i i was pretty much back in new york city back and forth but in new york a lot of the time going out and just really raging and we were touring too the band was still touring but you're like enough and no not gonna

be tied down let's just no and that's when i started drinking like i started drinking really in 1997 so that wasn't your primary thing? No, before that, I never. You didn't do nothing? I would pick my spots once in a while. Yeah, right. I'd drink beer or wine. Oh, but you started hitting it, huh?

Oh, hardcore, 97, yeah. Oh, yeah? Yeah, big time. Bottles of whiskey. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, Daryl from Pantera taught me how to do that. That's a long story, but yeah, he literally, he was my Yoda.

I was his Padawan. After the second divorce, Daryl was like, I'm going to teach you how to really. Well, I asked him. I said to him, I said, hey, man, because Pantera asked us to come out on tour with them for a few months. This is at the end of 97. And I said to him, hey, I made an adult decision at the age of 33. I'm going to learn how to drink. I want you.

I'm going gonna drink whatever you drink he's like are you drunk now like it's like no dude i'm being totally serious like i want to learn at the hands of the oh that's interesting you didn't have the compulsion but you were like it's time to live hard i needed to make a change in my life and that was i felt like i i had i'd failed twice in relationships. The band was not doing well at that time in the late 90s. We weren't doing so well. It was really, really hard for most metal at that point in time.

Your draw was drifting. Everything, yeah. And when did John Bush come on? 93. 92 he joined, and his first record with him, Sound of White Nose, came out in 93. What happened with Joey? Which did great. Yeah.

But then by 95, the next album, like, everybody disappeared. I don't know where everybody went. You like the Sound of White Noise? I love that record. Yeah. Yeah. And what happened with Joey? You know, again, like I said, I apologize.

You know, I just truly didn't have the patience anymore. Lead singers are hard for you, huh? They were. Yeah. Yeah, they were, but not anymore. I think my biggest problem was I was writing the words. Right. And I couldn't deal with the fact anymore that someone else was singing my lyrics,

but I couldn't sing. There's no way I could be the singer of Anthrax. That's what it was about? I think it really, really did come down to that, that I just couldn't sing. There's no way I could be the singer of Anthrax. That's what it was about? I think it really, really did come down to that, that I just couldn't stand it anymore. But you felt it was your emotions or you didn't like the way they were phrasing it? I mean, what was...

Both. Like people that, you know, that it's just these are my words, these are my feelings, it's my emotions and you're not me. not me yeah you know and yes and then even like learning the songs and like hearing them back like that's not how i hear it in my head no no like this like this but you had no solution no there wasn't my solution at the time

was turning around to the rest of the band and saying it's either him or me i pulled the same shit neil turbin pulled years before that i said i can't do this again we need to make a change yeah and it wasn't just me holding a gun everyone was on the same page right everyone felt like what we had done as anthrax in the 80s into the early 90s we had already moved past that we were ready to kind of the sound was changing if you listen to persistence of time musically that record has more to do with Sound of White Noise, the first John Bush record, than it has to do with State of Euphoria, the previous Anthrax album. Musically, we were already going somewhere else. But Joey, for us, I guess at the time, felt like he's not representing us anymore.

He was the 80s. Of course. Exactly. Of course, I spent a year of my life writing a book and like looking back on that time and really kind of getting back into those shoes and you know we should have given the guy a shot why we didn't give him the shot i really don't know why we weren't able to because i even remember i remember johnny z our manager he was are you sure are you sure this is the decision you want to make? Yes, yes, yes.

Did you feel pressure because of the, you know, like even the nature of a front man stylistically was changing. I wanted it to be harder. Right. I wanted, I couldn't do it, but I wanted someone who could almost, you know, someone just, I wanted it to be harder. I didn't want Lemmy. Right. You know, I didn't want it to sound like that. I just wanted it to be harder. I didn't want Lemmy. Right. You know, I didn't want it to sound like that. I just wanted it to be harder.

And John brought it? Yeah, John brought it. Yeah. For sure. And so that was a change. You went deeper and harder, and it sort of, you know, it was metal itself, I guess because of what? Because of grunge and everything else that, you know, there was a more alternative hard rock thing happening that it swung the pendulum back?

You know, trust me, I've thought a lot about this. Yeah. Because, like I said, Sound of White Noise did great. Yeah. Out of the box, you know, gold record, and then, you know, went on to sell a platinum record, and we were playing big shows. And then in 95, when the next record stomp 442 is coming out electra went

through a shift we had signed to electra as well so it's a crazy big deal for sound and white noise he ended up at electra anyway yeah and uh stomp is coming out electra had gone through a huge upheaval everyone we worked with was gone bob krasnow who was the head he was a true record man he was gone and they bring in this woman Sylvia Roan who she signed in Vogue she was really successful with that yeah

and it's weird how the record business works it's just product man yeah and the first thing she said to our manager when he walked in

to have a meeting about starting to set up the new Anthrax album she like drops the contract on the desk and basically says like I never would have signed this band I never would have done this deal what are we doing yeah what's gonna happen right

oh like great way to start a meeting and uh i could only think like they're like what the fuck i i learned over there i used to not be able to point the finger at myself right for sure i would i blamed everyone for everything for a long time in my life but for a long time in my life i've been able to point the finger at myself and i will not say that we made a record that was terrible it's not because of the record we made stomp 442 yeah we did not make a record that it's not like we made a jazz record and we alienated our audience or something you know um uh i i just think it was a number of factors a one of which it's so cliche to blame your label but look they just pulled the rug out from under us they did zero right i mean sound of white noise the first week it came out

in 93 we sold like a hundred and something thousand copies in a week of that record stomp comes out two years later and then the first week does like 29 000 you know what i mean yeah it goes on to sell about 150 sound of white noise goes plays a platinum record how did you go from like a million to 150 000 in two years like what like yeah those fans couldn't have all disappeared like what i still to this day don't have all disappeared. Yeah, like what, I still to this day don't have the answer to that question. And what was the fans' reaction to Stomp?

The people who got it loved it. Was the production different? No, no, not so different than Sound of White Noise. A harder record than Sound of White Noise,

like some harder material. We had Dimebag Darrell playing solos on the album. Like, it seemed to have everything going for it were you drinking then? no not yet

not yet holy shit but it was soon after well it was after that because that album went in the toilet basically our career started the money started to dry up career's going in the toilet second marriage

yeah second marriage is done we start working on another record that's going to come out in 1998 called Volume 8 we don't even have a record deal so yeah so in 90s end of 97 Second marriage is done. We start working on another record that's going to come out in 1998 called volume eight. We don't even have a record deal. So yeah. So in 90s and the 97, that's when I like,

I was like, I need to make a change in my life. I'm going to stop being responsible for really. I decided I don't want to be with this guy anymore. I don't, I don't want to be the captain of the ship. I don't want, like I'm going to go fucking crazy

for the first time in my life and I did for years and what do you think of those records you made like that? what did you make or did you not do any records? I didn't make a record like that we didn't really make a record like that volume 8 was just the beginning of it

so I wasn't in the depths yet and did you lose friends? did you lose any members of your band? no, I wasn't an the depths yet. And did you lose friends? Did you lose any members of your band? No. No, I wasn't an asshole. I'm a fun drunk. Oh, okay. So I wasn't an asshole in that way.

We just were raging. It wasn't just me. Doing shows, though. Yeah, yeah. John Bush. John was my drinking partner in those years. In the early 90s, John and I got way into Bukowski. Oh, sure, yeah.

Right, and, like, everybody does at some point. Yeah. We got way into Bukowski, and we tried our hardest to, like, I mean, great, we weren't fucking whores. Yeah. And, you know, I wasn't living in East Hollywood. Right. But when it came to booze, we were trying our hardest.

Oh, yeah? And what, how did it, what, did it did it get bad i mean did it get tragic did some shit go down what stopped it no no i just i met pearl in 2000 who is a fucking angel yeah but she wasn't then well she was she was but she wasn't she out she could out drink me even now still why don't i don't i only know her from meeting her a few times, and she's sort of a transcendent type of person. She is, absolutely. And I saw that in 2000 when she was in a blue latex rubber cop dress singing backup for Motley Crue, who Anthrax was opening for. And I was like love at first sight, but I have no game, nothing.

I don't know how to pick up chicks. I did pretty well in my drunken years because you'd just be out at bars and you're a drunk idiot and you'd and you just got in from anthrax you'd end up the next day being like oh you know like who the fuck are you yeah exactly i gotta go yeah well i gotta say your beard doesn't imply game right away no not at all my my beard basically says stay the fuck away from me. So how did you charm Pearl? We became drinking buddies. Yeah.

Because Motley, it was a sober tour at the time for Motley. Oh, yeah. And so Pearl and the other backup singer, Marty, this other girl, they were hanging out with Anthrax on the Anthrax bus. Because me and John and Frankie, our bass player, we hit it pretty pretty hard every night yeah and uh so they started hanging out with us we were drinking buddies for like a month and then uh motley's management calls up and says we need to take a cut in our pay on the tour because tickets weren't selling so well blah blah blah and like we can't we're we're just scraping by as it is on this run and like all right well we can't keep paying you you'll just have to go home and bummer i had nothing against nicky or the dudes and the band i get it it's business yeah um i was bummed because i wasn't gonna see pearl for six more

weeks till she got home to los angeles i was losing my mind like so i would go to this bar daddy's every night on vine where my my neighbor worked i would like get a ride with him and i started drinking at five and then drink until, and I would start drinking at 5, and then drink until the bartenders were done drinking at like 4. No other drugs? No, no drugs. So you were just drinking. And then I would walk home, like back to,

I lived right by Cantor's at the time. I would walk back home four miles every night because I think if I didn't walk, I would literally die. Oh, my God. Like I would be so drunk. So you were sort of a beaten man. I mean, you were sort of washed up. was but i had this light named pearl yeah that i had this focus and i knew she was coming home the beginning of september and she she gets home from tour and

like call her hey there's this these bands playing at the troubadour tonight high on fire and nebula like really cool bands you you want to go? She's like, sure, you know. Yeah. I had written, sorry, I had written her a letter. Yeah. On paper? Because I had never told her, yeah, on paper,

wrote her a letter and FedExed it to her on tour. Yeah. And I told her how I felt about her. Oh. And she never answered that. Oh. We would talk all the time, but she never. Did you write it drunk?

She never, no, no. This was like a really heartfelt four page. You're like, you're it? Yeah. Like, I'm in love with you. Oh. And then we would still talk, but she never brought up the letter, and I didn't have the balls to ask her about the letter, and I just figured out we're friends.

That's it. We'll be friends. I'm crushed, you know, but we'll be friends. At least I can be friends with this rad lady. And we went out to High on Fire that night at the Troubadour. I brought my friend Kenny with me because I was, like, nervous. But we just fell right back into the same thing. We ordered some drinks and hung out and watched some bands

and, like, hung out that night. And they wanted to say, what are you doing tomorrow night? Nothing. You want to hang out? And that was September 9, 2000. We've been together ever since. You never brought up the letter? Oh, no.

Of course I did. Yeah. Eventually, what about the letter? And she told me, she said, it was so amazing. Every time I would try and respond or write, I was trying to respond and write a letter back. She goes, I would just tear it up. I couldn't.

I was so blown away by your letter. And of of course then like me the idiot like waiting around to like make a move on her and like meanwhile she she felt the same way about me so it obviously obviously everything worked out because it's 16 years later but you got a kid yeah so uh you know i finally met the woman i was supposed to meet but we raged hard like those first few years up until about probably sometime in 2003 you know we were still hitting it hard and then it's like you we kind of like we probably don't need to go to the car and have five nights a week anymore like we're we're really happy like and then it you started we started to taper off after that yeah and did you you just slowed it down yeah just kind of started to slow it down.

It's just like we were, I think we were both fulfilled in our lives. And lo and behold, Anthrax's career, you know, the new millennium came, and then things started to turn around again, how those parallels in your personal life and professional life. What was the resurgence? We've come for you all? Yeah, we've come for you all. That kind of reopened the door for us for whatever reason whether it was because we wrote better songs or just people all of a sudden there was a new

new blood out there the label bands you know whatever it was but yeah yeah everything just started to click again what a great fucking story and you were able to play yankee stadium yeah yeah 2011 i mean the worship music thing is the real you know that's the real comeback but um yeah yeah playing yankee stadium in 2011 who was on that tour that was the big four right it was megadeth who was it swayer megadeth us and metallica yeah and you know metallica calls up and says, you want to do some Big Four shows with the four bands, the four thrash bands, you know? And yes, of course.

You were one of the... Wait, was it the Big Three before you? No, that phrase was coined at some point in the late 80s by a writer where we were known as the Big Four of thrash metal, the bands that basically brought thrash to the world. I always thought it should have been the big five because there was a band called Exodus out of San Francisco who were just as important. Kirk Hammett from Metallica was actually in Exodus.

He replaced Dave in Metallica. I always thought Exodus should have been a part of that. And now Gary Holt from Exodus is in Slayer too. So it kind of all worked out in a weird way. So the big four thing you were you were part of that idea from the beginning like that yeah yeah always yeah and how was that tour how'd you all get along amazing amazing yeah metallica uh the first big four show was in poland in 2010 and uh in warsaw and uh you know we know there's gonna be like 120 000 people there in this airfield and

and uh so uh we find out for management the night before the show metallica's booked out some restaurant and it's bands only no wives no girlfriends no managers no entourage nothing just the 17 dudes in the four bands in the room and my initial reaction was kind of like well that's weird we all know each other's wives and girlfriends. And Pearl was with me. And like, you know, it was kind of weird that why, you know. And I remember even calling Kirk going, you know, you're not bringing Lonnie? You know, like, what's up?

And he's like, yeah, we just wanted to be the dudes. Okay, fine. Fine. Just to make sure that everything was clear? Well, they just had a really good idea that this is going to be the first time all of us are just going to be in a room together. We've all seen each other. But is Mustaine and Megadeth? Right, but they've seen each other, but not all together at once.

We've toured with Slayer, and we've toured with Megadeth, and Slayer's toured with Metallica, and we've toured with Metallica. But it's never just been all of us together in a room at one time in the history never happened right so um and i i believe a historical event yeah i may be mistaken but i think it was james i think it was hetfield's idea yeah to do this and instantly i understood why because we're all standing in this this room in this restaurant just the the dudes. Just the dudes. And, man, the vibe was just, it was amazing. It was electric to be in that room. And everybody just hugging and shaking hands and talking and, like, just smiling and laughing.

And it's like, oh, there's Mustaine and, like, Hetfield. And there's Mustaine. Like, I was, like, standing there with someone, maybe from Slayer, just looking at, like, Dave and Kirk, like, hugging. And I'm like, never thought I'd see that. like someone, maybe from Slayer, just looking at like Dave and Kirk, like hugging. I'm like, never thought I'd see that. You know, just like, it was an incredible night. Like, and it went on for about four hours. And then they said, now why, if anyone else wants to come down,

come to the bar or whatever. And then girlfriends came and some crew dudes came and then, you know, turned into a big party. But for those four hours, it really was, like, it really made a connection. You can't see me, but I got my fingers interlaced. You're all in your 50s. Yeah, we were all in our 40s at that point,

in the late 40s. Yeah, and it's like, you know, let it go, right? Yeah, exactly. And then just to be able to say, like, can you fucking believe this? Like, guys have known for fucking 35 years we were a bunch of asshole kids in 1985 like when it all really first started to roll and like you know just doing whatever we could to to survive and get people to know our bands and

we're gonna play to 120 000 people tomorrow you know because they love this music that we created yeah it was an amazing moment to to like to own that yeah i don't think i ever sat around and thought about that before that night like yeah like to own that and to really feel it and to be in the room with your peers who were there with egos were sort of put aside a little bit yeah gone you know unbelievable and metallica really set the tone for all the shows we did on those big four, that the big four tour, they really set the tone and it, and it felt like that from that first show in Poland to Yankee stadium a year

or so later. It really felt like that all the way through. They, they, they really did it right. And then you did a record with Joey. Yes. Well,

talk about parallels in your life. Like go back to spreading the disease in 19 end of 84 we have a record that's recorded without a singer and we find joey right joey joins the band elevates anthrax to a whole new thing we go out on tour for a year and a half and we become the band that writes among the living we just have nothing to worry about. We're just anthrax, and we write Among the Living. Cut to 2010. We have a record called Worship Music, which is basically done. We don't have a singer.

Joey joins the band again. We go out on tour with Megadeth and Slayer in the fall of 2010. What happened with John? John had already been out since 05. There's a lot of jumping around in these years. But in 05 and 06, we went out and did a reunion tour with Joey and the original lead player, Dan Spitz.

Basically to get us to clear our slate, got us out of a lot of bad deals. We did a record and a DVD and blah, blah, blah. And that cleared the slate for us. Financially? Yeah. With contracts? Yeah, because we couldn't move forward and make another studio record

in the deals we were in it was something we were going to break up the band that was the choice and our manager said if you go do the reunion tour we go john easy no no different man yeah we could deliver a dvd and a live record and this will clear the slate for you guys and it was a business decision that probably could have been made better but at that point you know john said look i understand you guys got to go do this but i don't want anything to do with it we were hoping we could go do a tour in 05 with john and joey yeah together right make that happen but john was like no way i i don't want it that's stupid go do your thing with joey that makes the most sense for you guys yeah and go do it and he was very much a man about the whole thing and yeah um but after that in 06 when the

reunion tour thing ended and you know in in my with hubris thinking we'll just go now back to work with john you know he's like no i've got a kid now it's the last i don't want to do that anymore i'm done yeah and uh he right, though? He's great. Oh, good. We're still friends. Oh, good. And in 2010, so we've got worse than music finished. We don't have a singer.

We call Joey Belladonna. We go out on tour, Anthrax, Slayer, Megadeth. We do this big tour around the States. With Joey. Yeah, with Joey. We start playing him the new music. We re-record a bunch of it. We rewrite stuff.

He goes in the studio, records the vocals, and we listen back and we're like, unbelievable. You know, like this is, it's the missing piece. It's the missing piece of the puzzle. And then Worship Music blew up, you know, put us back on the map in a really big way. And so now here we are beginning of 2016 with a record about to come out

you know it's the best thing we've ever done because joey rejoined and then we were able to go out for three years and just be anthrax again and become the band that could write for all kings the new record and it's such a parallel to how it was on spreading and among but it's so sweet that that this stuff like you know that these that these changes with you and with the band and with everything else, that this full circle thing and this sort of amazing respect from the other bands, from the fans,

and then to be rejoined by the singer that made you guys, it's a beautiful story. It really is. You're still in a functioning, relevant band. Right, exactly. You didn't become a fucking monster. No, I know.

Or a joke. Well, that's why I didn't realize I had a story to tell until I started going out and doing my talking shows. Because I've always, in a sense, I'm a frustrated stand-up. I can't write jokes. Right. But I could tell a fucking story. Yeah, yeah.

And in 2012, I got this offer in london to come tell stories i was like oh fuck it i'm doing that because i i would see henry rollins do it for years and i'd be like hours i would love to try that someday but never never was out there actively pursuing it and then it fell on my lap so it was the night before we were starting a tour with motorhead at the end of 2012 and i i got up at this venue in London. It was Bill Does Rock Stars Say the Stupidest Things or something like that. And I had no idea what I was doing, but I knew I had great stories. And I got on stage, and I opened my show with this.

It was like 4 in the morning, and I woke up in a sweat, like in a panic, thinking, like, I don't know what I'm doing. I can't. How am I going to go on stage and just talk to people? Where's my guitar? And how do I open? What do I just walk on stage? I have jokes.

Like, what am I going to do? Hi. How are you guys? How do you even start the show? Right. And then I got this idea immediately. Like, somehow, what if I acted like I was reading from a book and people thought it was my book, but it wasn't. It would be something like that would be so not my story.

And I called my buddy, John Wiederhorn, who's a rock writer and worked on this book with me, my book. And I was like, hey, what's a book like Motley Crue, like the dirt, you know, like super sex drugs, like heroin, all that kind of shit, something like that's so far away from what I do. And he goes, well, you can't read something from the dirt you know like super sex drugs like heroin all that kind of shit something like that's so far away from what i do and uh he goes well you can't read something from the dirt to an audience because most people have read that book but check out anthony kiedis's book from the chili peppers because your audience definitely hasn't read his book yeah they don't care and uh i go online i find it i get the book first chapter he started he's writing about sitting in my house in

the hollywood hills and my reverie is interrupted by some fine lady who comes in and starts setting up her works and injects me and blah, blah, blah. I'm like, this is fucking genius. So I walk on on stage. I don't say a word. I sit down on a stool. There's just a little pin spot on me, and I've got it. I type the whole thing out into my phone, and I sit there and just start reading this

thing. It's super boring, just deadpan reading this. And she injects me, and I start feeling the familiar warmth. And I could see people who've known me for years out in the audience, I could see them like, what the fuck? Like, I had no idea. When was he a junkie? Right?

Right? So I finish this little short tale. It's like three minutes. And I finish it. I lay back on the couch and I pass out, however it ends. And I just kind of get really quiet. And I take the mic off the stand and I stand up. And I'm like, you fucking people thought that was about me?

Fucking assholes. That's Anthony Kiedis. And I get this giant sigh of relief and laugh from the crowd. And then I owned them for two and a half hours. Really? And it was the best. I don't know that I had ever felt that high on stage ever even in the band. I walked off stage after two and a half hours of talking.

And I was standing in the dressing room with this smile, the Joker smile on my face. And I said to my agent, I got to do more. I got to do more. So we booked a UK tour like six months later. I toured the UK with it and I've done like four tours and I fucking love doing that.

But in the midst of all that, I started writing out my stories because I was doing these talking shows and I got about 100 pages of shit written and I'm like, I actually have a story

to tell here. I've got a book. Yeah. And then that's kind of how the book came together. That's great. And you had a baby. Yeah. How old's that kid now?

Best thing ever. He's four and a half. That's amazing. And Pearl is a rocker too, right? She sure is. Yeah. Sings her ass off. She's finishing a record right now.

I get to like, when I can, I get to play in her band. And then we also have this other thing, Motor Sister, that we do, which is a rock thing with another singer, Jim Wilson. And it's just all music all the time and her father your father-in-law's meatloaf father-in-law's meatloaf well look man i'm glad we did this because we you know we see each other all the time we never got to talk it was fucking great yeah i got you know i got moved it's very touching you know where i got choked up where the fedex letter that got me i i still have it too i've got the letter, dude. I'll never, that's like,

I feel like that letter saved my life in a weird way. I could actually say like that, it completely saved my life. It's beautiful, man. Thanks for talking, Scott. Cheers. That's it.

That is our show. I love that. I loved learning. I loved talking to Scott. Again, Anthrax's new album, For All Kings, is available now. Scott's book, I'm the Man, the story of the guy from Anthrax, is just out in paperback. And the new record is great, by the way.

It's great. What else? Go to WTFpod.com for all your WTFpod needs. I need to, I was told I need to push my Kansas City dates, when are they? They're in April, I've got three dates coming up and then I'm going to have to take the summer to write a new hour

so I can tour in the fall but I do have some dates and I'm not saying it's not going to be new material, I always sort of do something but Friday, April 8th I'll be at the Mission Creek Festival at the Englert Theater in Iowa City, Iowa. April 9th, I'll be at the Rococo Theater in Lincoln, Nebraska. And April 10th, Arvest Bank Theater at the Midland in Kansas City, Missouri. Look, I've never played the Midwest.

Let's not make me think I knew better. played the Midwest, let's not make me think I knew better. So if you're a Kansas City fan, Kansas City, Missouri fan, April 10th I'll be there. And I'm not going to play guitar today because it's late. I have to get up early.

I'm going to be working with some exciting actors tomorrow. I'll tell you about it Thursday. Alright? Boomer lives! some exciting actors tomorrow. I'll tell you about it Thursday. All right? Boomer lives! You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything.

So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising.

Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.