WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 695 - Sam Rockwell / Richard Linklater

Episode Date: April 4, 2016

Sam Rockwell has become such a memorable actor in films and on stage because he really likes to prepare. On the release of his latest film, Mr. Right, Sam and Marc talk about doing good work and why that sometimes means saying no to a paycheck. Also, Richard Linklater returns to talk about his new movie Everybody Wants Some!! which he was just finishing up the last time he was in the garage. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category,

and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gate! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers?

What the fuck buddies? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuckineers? What the fuckadelics? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Thank you for listening to it. On the show today, Sam Rockwell and I talk a bit about his new film, Mr. Right, with the amazing Anna Kendrick.

It was a fast-moving conversation that won a lot of directions. But it was great to meet him and great to talk to him and it was fun. But before that, coming up very shortly, Richard Linkletter stopped by to talk about his new movie. He came by, man.

He came by the house. He was in town, doing a little press for his new film everybody wants some which i saw that link ladder is a solid dude he's a class act and this movie is a fun fucking movie and you know what else i don't know if you remember the last conversation i had with uh with richard but he we talked a bit about thin lizzy. And he fucking showed up at my house with Thin Lizzy jailbreak on vinyl as a gift. That is a fucking amazing dude.

But look forward to that. We did a nice little interview with Mr. Linkletter about the new movie. So what's happening? What is the urgency? Okay. Some outstanding business. I reached out to you guys to help me name a piece of furniture, and there was a lot of input, mostly credenza.

I appreciate the input, but I don't know that that would necessarily have slipped my mind. What she used to call it, and I believe what it is in some parts of the world, and this is where I learned that some furnitures are called different things, it was a buffet. Now, I know that doesn't start with the letter c but you know i'm getting older brains getting mushy but it was a buffet that was what i threw out gladly and and exercised myself of a of a of a draining ghost vessel that was uh doing nothing nothing but subconsciously taxing my emotions. And man, did that start a roll, man. I've been throwing shit out like crazy. My house actually is comfortable and I like sitting in it. It's not this clutter fest

out here in the garage. Well, that's another situation. i'd like to read this email before i talk to richard because um it's sort of uh it's sort of resonant from ethan uh subject line sobriety and salvage denim hi mark sobriety is something i've struggled with for about six years ever since i discovered drinking it's been an everyday part of my life but that's not the point of this message thankfully your podcast and more importantly your television show has taught me ways to deal with not drinking as much. I especially enjoy your frustration with raw and salvaged denim on the IFC show. Sitting in a bathtub with stiff jeans is agonizing. As someone who is constantly searching for new obsessions, I especially love how obsessed with denim and coffee you are. These two have been my vices

for a few years, and I can understand how they help with the monotony of addiction. I was wondering if you had any other hobbies you'd recommend along with these two. Vinyl seems to be too pricey, and might I add, my friend Ethan, space-consuming, and I'm already restoring straight razors and old kitchen knives. Oh my God, this guy wins a prize for the, you know, what a beautiful, weird little obsession. Restoring straight razors and old kitchen knives. Back to the letter. I hope to hear back from someone in your camp.

Hopefully your boots are broken in and your denim isn't too stiff. Thanks, Mark. Regards, Ethan. guards, Ethan, dude, I being that Ethan and anyone else who finds themselves staving off, uh, the, uh, the, the, the, the, the knowledge of their own mortality through a weird obsessive compulsive activities or obsessions that hopefully you find one that, you know, produce good results and you can be proud of and maybe show your friends. Look, look, I look at this straight razor I restored. Yeah. While I was doing this, I didn't think that life was pointless. Look, I, look, I'm all for obsessions in that way. I don't really look at them like that, but dude, here's why your letter is interesting to me is that I'm realizing as I clean shit out of my house that what's really

sad is waning obsessions. Is that when the obsession starts to dissipate and you're just left with the byproduct of your commitment to this thing. Like the straight razor bit and the knife bit really reminds me of my foray into cast iron pans, which was completely obsessive. And I get this. I get this when I'm not working a day job like doing a TV show or when I'm on my regular schedule, which is what I'm in now. And my obsession right now is really about throwing shit out. But I've gone through some of this stuff that I've thrown out and some of them were kind of remnants of obsessions. Like there was this little wooden box, I actually kept it, that all I wanted to do was learn how to wax it, like wax, put a finish on it and wax it. But I never committed

to really learning about stains or waxing or the benefits of waxing versus varnish or shellacking or whatever the other stuff is. I just spent, a month just slowly waxing this dumb little wooden box, and it completely consumed me. Vinyl, I'm terrified of the day that that obsession starts to wane because it's all over my house. It's taken over my house. And this tells me something about relationships too and about the obsessive nature of relationships

is that I'm not in an obsessive relationship anymore, and I haven't been in one in a little while. And it's like there's a heartbreak to it, dude. There's a dull heartbreak to the waning of obsessions. You just feel it going away. And if it's not a person that you can actually separate from and revisit in your memory, if it's an actual object you know be careful because you might end up having to sort of get rid of a lot of straight razors and and kitchen knives when you when you have that moment where you're surrounded by them and you're like the fuck am i doing what is just you alone on a floor with 50 kitchen knives and and and 50 straight razors that nobody wants. As I said before, this Richard Winklater film is fucking a blast.

And if you're my age, it was funny. I told him, and you'll hear me tell him, that after I was at the screening of Everybody Wants Some, there was about half the room applauded. And I'm like, they're over 50. And it's not an old person movie because it's about youth. It's about identity. It's about that first wave of freedom of trying to figure out who you are and whatnot.

But the music is great. The look is great. And the dudes are, it's mostly about dudes in a way, are all sort of endearing and interesting. I don't know, man. This guy makes movies with a lot of heart. So this is me talking to Richard about Everybody Wants Some,

which is open now in theaters. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising.

Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Well, that's what I noticed about the movie. What did you end up calling it? Everybody Wants Some? Yeah, I had a working title called That's What I'm Talking About. Right, we talked about it a little bit because you had just finished shooting it. I was excited.

When you were here last time. Mm-hmm. And now it's Everybody Wants Some. Everybody Wants Some. I went with the Van Halen. Two exclamation points. Oh. Two points that's right that's what it's from i'm an idiot like i'm like where do you get the time everybody wants their third album came out in the spring of 80 was it yeah so that i can't believe that so van halen one or two were 1970s like 78 980 they went one two three those first three are to me those are my favorites too oh yeah those are the best i mean i think i saw them on the first tour

um i saw them opening for black sabbath in the in 78 really yeah they were opening before their first album even came out it's like but everyone came out talking about them i've talked to other people who were on that tour they see see that. Who were there? Yeah. I thought the music was great. Because I was, 1980 is when this takes place. This kid's freshman year of college. It was my, beginning my senior year. So, of high school.

Yeah. But again, like, not unlike Dazed and Confused, it's all familiar to me. Because we're about the same age. Yeah. You're from Austin. I'm from Albuquerque. It all felt familiar to me. All the cars. You got all the same age. Yeah. You're from Austin. I'm from Albuquerque. It all felt familiar to me. All the cars.

You got all the cars right. I was excited to see a gremlin in the parking lot. A little gremlin, a little pacer, stepping around back there somewhere. But it was interesting because I saw it with an entire room full of what I imagine are press. But I felt like everybody was rooting for the movie, which is good. you get a vibe yeah

sometimes they're with you sometimes they're against you right but i have you ever felt them against you though really uh i think early on they were trying to figure out yeah a little bit oh really not much not much in a long time ago in a long time ago but like i knew because i talked to you that it was similar to dazed and confused and, which means that it wasn't a story necessarily as it was sort of a kind of movement, a meditation on being a high school freshman in Texas in 1980. But it's weird with college movies,

and maybe it was nostalgic on your part, but nothing got out of hand. It was right on the verge of it. Right. You know, there's a little fight in a disco and they get kicked out but it's not like but that was just don't get thrown that's like a bar fight everybody pushes each other yeah yeah yeah it's like yeah that's like every bar fight you've ever been around usually um you know i thought that was the difference between college and high school

like high school you're sort of like being in prison you know no one really wants to be there and you're stuck in your parents house you're stuck in that world and it's not by choice. You're there. So there's a lot of tension, a lot of aggravation, all that oppression. And so people are kind of bumping up against each other and expressing that kind of aggression or that behavior. It comes out in different ways. College, because it's just not about freedom. College to me was the metaphor there was, oh, it's freedom. Yeah. Like, wow, you can stay out all night. Yeah.

Your parents aren't telling you to turn down your stereo or get up. Right. You know, if you want to just drink and eat whatever you want and not go to class or, you know, whatever that those adult decisions, suddenly the exhilaration of having all that freedom. Right. Thrust on you was fun. Right. So it created a more friction-free environment, you know, because it's like, well, you're there by choice. You don't like college.

You don't like being here. Quit. Go get a job. Right. And you were real good about, like, all the characters sort of define themselves pretty quickly. And these are alpha dudes. Yeah.

It's a baseball team. You know, this was sort of, you know, I certainly didn't, you were a ball player. Yeah. It's a baseball team. You know, this was sort of, I, you know, I certainly didn't, I, you were a ball player. Yeah. They're all competitive. That's the tone. They're just competitive. With everything. About the dumbest shit.

And also they're always amped up and moving. Yeah. A lot of movement. Yeah. They never really sit down much. Right. And they're just like doing shit. Or if they sit down, it's for bong hits or to drink, you know.

Right. Or play that knuckles game or just, you know, somehow beat the shit out of each other one way or the other yeah but like those were the guys when i was younger like who i would have thought of as the other team like that not the enemy but just the jocks and somehow or another because of certain pivotal personalities in the film you were able to sort of balance them out somehow that you found the humanity of people i would have prejudged probably well yeah and i think the film kind of begs you to do that at the very beginning you're seeing it through jake's eyes he's the freshman right the new guy yeah and so they are kind of jerks they sort of you know like

who are you oh yeah just they basically give him give him nothing right even though they're soon you know they're living in the same house but within minutes they're inviting him hey we're going drinking there's a happy hour at this bar. Right. The team element, actually, and also the seriousness of having a good team and what it means kind of overrode the personality difficulties. It is finding your place within a team structure. And that's, to me, also what the movie's really about. It's like every guy there was kind of the star of their high school team right now they're coming in like oh i gotta find you know you go from being an alpha to

being you don't know what right i was like oh i gotta fit in here and be a teammate but to have a good team you know you have to play your role and everybody knows that but you want to assert yourself so baseball it kind of team and individual are kind of battling each other. But people say, oh, it's a big party film. It's like, yeah, but within that party, you see the little competitiveness, the way they talk. They're actually preparing themselves to be a good team, to win. They want to win a national championship this year. And also it was very philosophical because like I didn't feel like it was a party movie. The sort of thrust of the, it wasn't a story but of the movie is

pussy yeah and and chasing tail yeah and uh and and that that makes sense i mean those guys are 18 to 22 year old sure sure but i was surprised also that you know once you establish the characters you know you had the the hyper alpha who was really good at you know everything right there you know he could split baseballs with a hatchet and whatnot with an axe and then you had the other guy who was you know really you know a good looking guy and cocky but philosophical smart quick yeah yeah quick and smart and then you had the weird wiry guy with the handlebar mustache he was just kind of kind of freaky, but interesting. Pitcher.

A pitcher, yeah. They're all a little crazy. It was odd because all these type of movies are going to fall under, you know, there's a moment there where you're like, is this Animal House or is it a genre picture?

But it didn't do that. I don't know how you pulled that off, really, because the film got applause last night from a press audience, dude. That's pretty good. It got applause. I take that is a positive sign and like when i heard the applause i'm like they're all over 50. yeah yeah they were there they were there but you know i just think it's kind of what we were talking about earlier like why is there not i think college it was just chill like high school everybody had something to prove remember college people it was especially

the time it's the end of the 70s right everything was chill you were just trying to be cooler than everybody and being cool means not losing your shit not starting stupid fights and not being aggressive it's like hey you know you went out with my girlfriend hey it's cool i guess there was a little bit of that in the air it was really i mean guys you know everybody's always we don't change that much but it was kind of uncool to be an aggressive jerk as i remember well that i mean i think that's always, we don't change that much. But it was kind of uncool to be an aggressive jerk, as I remember. Well, I mean, I think that's right. Because I didn't even have issues like the black guy at the country bar.

Right. He doesn't have any problem going in there. Because, hey, he's a known athlete on campus. No one's going to mess with him. He's got his boys with him. Right. It's just not an issue. People go, oh, there's one black guy on the team.

Nothing happened. It's like, no, we had a couple of brothers on the team. It was never. Yeah. We were teammates first. And there weren't these issues, nothing happened. I was like, no, we had a couple of brothers on the team. It was never. We were teammates first. And it's just, there weren't these issues, you know? Right. Well, that's, I didn't think about it until you mentioned it now that, you know, high

school is really where the violence happens in a way. Yeah. If you made it to college, you know, you did have, even if you were set in your ways like some of these guys were, you knew that you may be the on the baseball team but there was a whole world of people at this place that were different than you and there was no way to not acknowledge that whereas in high school you know if you were the baseball team you were the top of the pyramid yeah and you could fuck with football or yeah you're the you're set up to be the bully right the one who never gets picked on or challenged right yeah but in college just by the just by the assortment of majors, and you just know, you can't think you're

the whole world. Right. You know, you meet so many people who are studying other things and you can't help but know there's a big other world that doesn't care that. I mean, sure, there's this kind of psychopathic emphasis on sports in our country. But so it might be about football or basketball or a little baseball's third in that list yeah at best but um your world definitely opens up and that's the whole point of going to college right you meet a lot of people and you absorbs their taste what

they're interested in all those crazy teachers so it was a it's a good time and you've got that the singing in the car uh uh montage an extended rapper's delight sequence yes yeah it was great there was a question of how long that should be in the movie it's early in the movie they're going from their house to the the bar where they're having a happy so it's just a to z you know point a to point b you did almost all song i think and it well no because that song's like 13 minutes so i told the cast you got to know the whole song because we're going to do this because that really happened to me i remember i was in a car and a guy played ball with named julio was in the front seat and he goes i am julio you'd put in your own name that notion of passing the mic sure the other if you knew the song sure it was like you'd insert your own name or your own

kind of and that was new stuff to people too like rap music yeah the movie's trying to take you back to a time and say well this was what it felt like you know you can say whatever you will about that song or how it's aged and people kind of make fun of it all right it's been parodied a little bit that and say my and stuff yeah it's like no no this is original intent original use like what it felt like to be in that car before it was even called hip-hop it's like oh that's rap music it's something kind of from new york city you know yeah you know from the bronx or brooklyn or wherever it's coming from but you're kind of like oh and it has those beats it's almost like disco it starts off and it's like okay you can kind of dance to it yeah but then it's like

okay well what's new here it's like oh the ear what they're saying yeah that's crazy i mean that's fun yeah so it was kind of like the excitement of being around something so new you know yeah yeah and also the the punk and the new wave music so i look back at it as a as a time it's like well you know that was a pretty interesting time you know there was like new stuff happening i don't know if that's happening today there's the genres get refined but i don't know if there's new things coming you know well there is but there's a lot more. There's more of it.

Like, you know, when that stuff came out, it was like any media. It was a little more intimate. There was less stuff. So now there's just tons of shit. It's like techno. I mean, there's so much stuff. And so much stuff within that stuff.

But what's interesting at that moment in 1980 is all that stuff was selling really well the country i mean the music industry is very different you know just some record average band was selling three million albums you look at the industry very different well i love that guy's jake's box of records because i'm looking at the details and i see the record crate and i see more songs about buildings and food and i see devo i started off i had more songs about buildings and food and i see devo i started off i had like 200 and something songs yeah a lot of it's it's a combination of financial or just what worked i was just it was there was a lot of reasons that i end up here but it's it's kind of random the cars there could have been yeah and with a car song yeah i remember when

that came out what was that that was 80 79 79 80 yeah that was a big record that first cards record you were like what the fuck is happening and the knack too you open with the knack you close with the cars because there were some people that were mad about the knack because it's like it's new wave it's not really punk and they weren't really or they were too successful too their album i think they made a mistake because it looked like meet the beatles yeah they mirrored the exact poses sure And people were a little cynical about them or something. It's a hell of a song, though. But yeah, and that album, actually, I think the knack is really underrated because, I

mean, I think they're the best teen sex angst band ever. They were very in tune with this movie because what's on a young person's mind. A lot of sex right out of the gate. I was not getting that much sex in college um like every it seemed like i'm sorry i mean yeah about four or five of the dudes got laid that first day of school it would happen what can i say what can i say oh this is the dirty secret you know and there was a kind of young woman who just liked the way we looked in our baseball uniforms what can i say is that true that's it yeah yeah yeah they so there was a kind of young woman who just liked the way we looked in our baseball uniforms. What can I say? Is that true?

That's it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it was a big deal. When they talk about men objectifying women, any athlete can kind of flip that and go, you weren't even looking at my face. You're looking at my, you know, whatever that athletic. So it was like, yeah, you just kind of go with it.

And the one dude in the mirror with his butt. That was funny. Yeah. A lot of primping. Yeah. Because that was the early, metrosexual i think it's something like yeah women's lib and you know the the the hair dryer enters your men's locker room at some point in the 70s perms and platform shoes it was okay to kind of primp you know guys oh dude it was crazy

they started caring about what they look like oh my buddy dave bishop he had a perm he had straight blonde hair and he'd get a perm and one day he'd show up with his perm he didn't really say nothing about it familari shoes like these three inch platform shoes what the hell but it was okay to put an effort out for the first time it was really britannia jeans and all that shit tight yeah my cast was going like well you guys really wore these right like yeah it's just that's all there was. It was some tight stuff. I don't know if I ever felt comfortable in the tight pants, but it was the way it was.

It was just the way. I didn't mind tight stuff on all the ladies. No, of course not. No, I didn't. But I like the movement towards this art party, which becomes this sort of like fantastic sort of event. Because like the way you shot it it was it wasn't just a party you know it was it was a a kind of weird uh mind-blowing sort of uh it it mind expanding right the mind as as an audience member you kind of felt like oh this is really kind of out there

and probably a little a little too uh too well produced in a way for the effect of it. But that's how it was. It's how it felt, right? It was this place. It was all performing arts majors, mostly actors, dancers, the really super cool kids. And I had met this actress, and we were going out, and it was like a whole new world opened up.

Our idea of decorating the house was like thumbtacking up a Susan Anton poster. Right. But you go out to their parties and they had special lighting and a guy controlling it from the attic. Yeah. It was just really well production designed. And it was a costume party. Cool.

Yeah, their costumes. All these people who were kind of expressing themselves through their costumes and their art and everything. That's new when you're an athlete you don't have to do any of that right you don't have to peacock or do anything because you're just that's your expression yeah it's a performing art but the sport is the thing so yeah you don't you you get around people like oh they're they're kind of artists of living everything they do is art-like the way they decorate and the way they dress and then and

then they're they're performing theater dance you know and i and i love the way wow cool cool people these are my new friends right now i i found them i found that crowd well jake was the conduit to that because there's that moment where you know the other guys are clear that he doesn't want them to come and then eventually they do this thing felt a little awkward right and then world's clashing right and he didn't know what he was getting into either. But all the guys come and then you subvert the expectations again. Because I left going like, not one of those guys started shit. Not one of those guys bullied one of those art dudes. And they didn't.

And not only did they not, they were sort of humbled by it. Yeah. They're just smart enough. I think all the bullying stuff i think that's i think that falls on football a little bit i'm just starting to realize that i talked to you football you know baseball guys a little different a little different you know you just don't hear about the bad entitled sports stuff so much from baseball right a lot of those guys are actually really you know 4-0 students and yeah you know

i it's a huge generalization i guess there's a send to baseball yeah it's more of a thinking person it's not that you know any sport can be but it lends itself the pace of it the way guys it's an ongoing conversation sure even in the game you can be in the middle of a baseball game and talking to a guy sitting next to you but You can't do that in football and basketball. You can talk to people on the field. It's too intense. Like through an inning. Yeah. You get on first base, you might talk to the guy on the other team. Yeah, sure. There's a lot of time and it relaxes you. It actually makes you better. Where in football, no. They talk about your mama. They want to kill you. Right. You don't have any room. And on the bench you've got to be kind of jacked up

or someone will kill you. You could die today. Right. Baseball, you don't go into a game like that. It's much more leisure and there's only

a couple coaches and they're often far away so you can have this kind of, it lends itself to wit and humor. Yeah. I just, some of the funniest guys

I was ever around in my whole life were some of these players and they didn't have any comic aspirations that thought that they could make a living writing you know never crossed their mind but they were just really funny guys just situationally yeah and i thought you took a lot of time and it was like i was very excited to see that you you you played some baseball i mean you

yeah we finally we deliver one little scene on the baseball field but it's nice you know you really get a sense of a little bit of a payoff you get to kind of realize oh that's that's who they are you know you understand the pecking order right a little bit and this movie for you like did you find it was about that that that realization that there's a bigger world out there and about who who you are because like some of these guys are pretty set. They're like on a pro track if possible, but they knew that that was a long shot and whatever on some level.

But your main character, Jake, is like in the end, towards the end, where he's talking to her about his essay about Sisyphus and whatnot, you realize like, well, he's got some other interests. Like he's kind of open-minded that this is about identity, about sense of self. Yeah, he's asking those kind of questions.

So you see him at the earliest, at the early stages of kind of questioning who he is. And it's that responsibility of, like, well, who do you want to be? You know, where's your spirit taking you? Yeah. I mean, it says a lot that he wants to hang out with the cool girl who's not the you know the groupie who right likes him in there you know he's kind of like oh yeah you know he's drawn to her for some reason you got something else going on yeah he bonds with finn the smartest guy on the team right they have a shorthand of wit you know they get each other's like extra little bit yeah yeah because that's how it is

sometimes in those group environments. There's two or three guys on the team who you make a joke, some reference that two guys pick up on. Right. But that's the best kind of humor. Sure. Because you look and no one else even got that joke. Yeah, yeah. There's a little hazing that goes on.

That was kind of funny. I love the way the country dude just was like, I don't need that magic shit. He's not going to even play along with getting set up. He's like, oh, how about that? Very simple. Simple. like i don't need that magic shit he's not going to even play along with getting set up how about that you know very simple simple you know what what did you feel when you you know when you actually finished cutting this and you you watched it with an audience i mean because not unlike dazed and confused for me it felt very personal you know just because i grew up then and because it all seemed very familiar to me yeah did you feel that way when you watch it? Yeah.

It just feels, it's so fun to hang out with the guys. I mean, I have the personal relation of making the movie with this wonderful young cast, so I can experience it on that level. Yeah. But then also part of my brain, and I think my impulse to make the movie, is I'm getting to really deal with those college years, what that meant, you know?

Just that little sliver of time all these years later. Like, what does that mean? It's an interesting, you know, transitional point in your life developmentally, you know, so I could kind of, you know, work through that. And I realized I had a lot less mixed feelings about college than I did high school for reasons we've already discussed. You know, it's like, oh, that was, and it's the first point in my adult life.

I think I point in my life, I go, okay, that was, and it's the first point in my adult life. I think I point, in my life, I go, okay, that was a pretty good time. Yeah. Now I go, I buy it. I'm buying in. Yeah. That was a good time. And comparatively, you know,

I've got a daughter who just got out of college. It was fun. College was so cheap, you know? It was a good, you know, it was cheap. The stakes were low. You didn't mortgage your future just to get a secondary education, you know? Were you there on a

scholarship yeah i mean school was so cheap and yeah we had a scholarship anyway so school was really cheap right you could take your i had financial aid yeah you know didn't have much money in the family so i it's like i had a scholarship and free money on top of it right i got a pell grant yeah so it was like. I felt like I was living large, man. I could buy the music, you know. Yeah. Or go to the concert, you know. Yeah.

So it was nice. So I think it was kind of in that point in time was to kind of pre-Reagan era. Yeah. Pre-AIDS, pre-Reagan era. Yeah. Pre-just say no. It got tougher to be a young person. Yeah.

Pre-AIDS, pre-Reagan era, pre-just say no. It got tougher to be a young person. I think on a couple of, you know, both like legally, you know, they kind of upping drinking ages. Right. Making you. Right. Made it illegal for young people to be in a car together. You know, like, oh, you can only have one teenager and, you know, curfews.

Sure. Just they kind of went after youthful fun in the 80s kind of backlash. Yeah. And then also you had the parenting change too. So young people, you've got, we were left alone as kids, but now you had parents here and the government kind of taking away your rights. So I don't know. It was right before all that.

Yeah. This is kind of, I look back and go, oh, that's the culture's transitioning. Yeah. Pretty soon you're going to have Ronnie and Nancy saying, just say no. And abstinence only education is the only way to go. And there was no internet. Shame, guilt. Yeah, it was very social.

You know, like today, the guys riding around singing to a song, you know, they might have music going, but there's one guy driving and four guys looking at their smart phone, texting somebody. Right. And in this, they're just looking out the window and looking at each other. You're filling that time with something. It all made sense to me, and now as I talk to you, I realize how much baggage in terms of fear and judgment and looking through current times that you bring to this thing and wonder about it, and then you realize, as I'm talking to you, that the point you made before

about the changing of the culture was it was actually genuinely a more innocent time. And you don't necessarily think of post-70s America being innocent, but in terms of how shit was going to be guided and come down. Comparatively, even though we had hostages yeah in our in iran at the time there wasn't a war on the horizon the vietnam hangover dudes were like still around no one was getting drafted i mean we were in the country wasn't going to be invading anywhere any anytime

soon right that sort of started shifting in the 80s so it was a nice little lull right i mean people weren't really happy with carter the economy. And there was a lot of strife. But when you're a kid, you don't care what the inflation rate is when you're 18 years old. Does it affect your life? No. Yeah. And a lot of stuff was just sort of starting around the dialogue on college campuses and about gender and other things like that, that it hadn't really picked up speed. And there was a sort of like, you know, things were okay. These guys were having a good time.

Yeah, well, they thought weed would be legal any second. You know, remember it was going to be just that was coming so that everything went the other direction. I mean, a lot of progress, obviously. It's something like, you know, gay civil rights. You know, that's a huge advance yeah from this time yeah and and other areas to progress but then there's that cultural backlash too yeah yeah you know I think Reagan brought more more overt racism kind of sure yeah the four where that was kind of a notion

you thought oh that was gonna be a thing in the past we're our generation is just too cool we don't think that way that That's for old fogies. But the old fogies kind of took back over. Yeah, they do that sometimes. You also come to the film with a lot of those kind of like, with those movie expectations, like I said earlier, of that type of film, of a college movie, of a party

movie. And it really isn't that because it goes much deeper. So there's a lot of these weird expectations that get turned in on themselves because you don't go for the joke, you go for the humanity of it, which is a lot better. Well, I think I'm happy when people kind of pick up on that

because, I mean, we've seen this genre done to death. There's the humor and the certain kind of humor. But I think if you can mix that with something that feels real to someone's own life, maybe that could potentially resonate. But I don't know what the expectations are you know it's it's in your mind yeah you know like when you see it when you're sitting

down for a movie like that and you're like college students two empty houses okay here we go yeah exactly well animal house was was looming you know even as we as we lived in those houses we were very aware like this is our animal house. It happened. We'd all seen the movie numerous times, and now we had our own houses. So it couldn't help. We had these crazy parties, probably. Oh, that's right.

We never had a toga party, but it was kind of like that. It was out already, wasn't it? Oh, yeah. It had come out a little before. Right. So the influence was pretty immediate in the culture. So I just say the DNA of Animal House is here because it was a big thing.

Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. Even if you think about the sophisticated humor that Finn's doing, trying to be, he's a little like Tim Matheson. There was that pitch. That's right. Maybe there's that. Sure, sure.

Plumber's probably, you know. Right. Bluto, you know. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know. No, no. It can's probably, you know. Right. Bluto, you know. Yeah, yeah. So I don't know. No, no. It can't help, but these archetypes are floating around. They were really there because they'd seen the film.

And also I liked all the attention paid to, you know, to bongs and to kegs. Yeah. And to making every clear punch or whatever punch that was. It's called different things, trash can punch. We called it coon dog punch. One guy on the team. But that was definitely a part of how are you going to drink beer faster? All that stuff was real stuff.

These are important things. I guess you got to run, but it's always great talking to you. And I really enjoyed the movie. It was heartwarming. It was fun. And I really enjoyed the movie. It was heartwarming. It was fun. And it was nostalgic for me. But also, you know, kind of revelatory. And you did a great job.

Wonderful. It's great talking to you, always. Thanks for having me back. So that was fun. That was a good conversation. I like talking to that guy. You know, you pick up speed, and he's very thoughtful, and he's nice. And, you know, he's like a fucking auteur. He's a good conversation. I like talking to that guy. You know, you pick up speed and he's very thoughtful and he's nice and he's like a

fucking auteur. He's the real deal. And he brought me a Thin Lizzy record. Okay. Sam Rockwell has had an amazing career. He's been in a lot of things. Some great things. He's one of those guys you see and you just love seeing him. That's really the truth of the matter.

Like Matchstick Man was great. Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy was great. The Assassination of Jesse James by the coward Robert Ford. He was great in that. Choke. He was fun in Choke. Moon. That movie that David Bowie's son did is an astoundingly great movie.

He's just one of those guys. He was in Laggies with Lynn Shelton, my friend, directed that. Anyway, Sam Rockwell, he's one of the most recognizable and interesting character actors working today. And I was happy that he came over. And this is me talking to him. We got a hard out. First of all, thanks for watching the movie, by the way. It's very nice of you to...

You never know with those things. And I didn't know with that one for a little while. It was, you know, there's a... It's a romantic comedy. Yeah, it aims to be, you know, gross point blank or something. But it's funny, like, because I haven't watched those kind of things. It's like a romantic comedy set against ultra-violent slapstick. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know what I mean? You're like, well, this is cute. And they're like, holy shit. kind of thing it's like a romantic comedy set set set against ultra violent slapstick yeah yeah

exactly you know what i mean like you're like well this is cute and they're like holy shit yeah i mean my my aim was always gross point blank that was my right this sort of dark satirical funny you know well i think that's a very special that's a very special movie right with kuzak right yeah yeah yeah driver you know that's a great movie you know your dynamic with anna kendrick was great you know and that's really what drives. You know, your dynamic with Anna Kendrick was great, you know, and that's really what drives those kind of movies. Nice, yeah. Where, you know, it's cute, it's funny, you know.

Yeah. You both seem to have some genuine moments amidst all the chaos and the crazy plot. Yeah. And it was nice to see Tim Roth being weird. Yeah. He's great. Tim's great, man. He's awesome.

And Anna's great. She's really, really. He's awesome. And Anna's great. She's really, really... When you get a script like that... Really fun and really clever. Yeah. What's the decision process? Because you seem to be a guy that kind of chooses your shit. I try to choose well.

Sometimes it works out. You know, sometimes it doesn't. You know, it was a chance to be like an action dude, which I don't get to do, you know. And I've done some fight scenes in films, but this was a chance to do that stuff. For real. And yeah, it was fun for me.

We didn't have the budget. We had to choreograph a lot of these fights in a very short amount of time. Oh, really? You normally have months for this kind of thing if you were doing a Mission Impossible. But those fights are really fun. I'm sort of a wannabe dancer,

and so that's kind of what those fights are like. You do like to dance, huh? Yeah, you know, so I think that's what it's like to do those kind of fight scenes, like dance choreography. Didn't you do a musical? You've done a musical. I've never done a musical. Oh, you didn't?

I mean, I'm not like a singer like Anna is. But like, I sing, but privately. You know, I'm not gonna. Yeah, me too. I do a lot of private singing. Good stuff, too. I get powerful. In the shower, in the bathtub.

Yeah, in my living room, occasionally in the car. I can really nail it sometimes. Are you afraid to sing in public? No, I'd sing in public. I can croon. Oh, really? Yeah. I wouldn't say I'm like Les Miserables type singer.

But that's what's great about musicals. You should do a gig, man. Get a musical. It's the vulnerability of it. It's like you don't have to be a good singer. You have to be like great about musicals. You should do a gig, man. Get a musical. And it's the vulnerability of it. It's like, you don't have to be a good singer. You have to be like, oh, Sam Rockwell's singing. It's nice. I would do that.

I would do Guys and Dolls or something like that. You should. Come on. Where did you come from? I came from San Francisco. I like this area, by the way. I was at that Cafe de la. Oh, yeah.

Deleche? Cafe de Leche. I was in Austin or something a little bit starting to turn that way i've watched it happen you know when i moved here it wasn't it wasn't there not any of it i like that shit i do i like hipster shit i like williamsburg you know like people make fun of beards and yeah i like that stuff because i i don't know they have good coffee and good food yeah good coffee good beer and there's a creativity creative spirit in the air with the how people organize their shops

you're not sure what the point of them is but you know you're happy for the effort yeah when you walk in you're like all right you gotta got a few records and a hat yeah it's like nice bohemia yeah yeah you know what i mean san francisco though has a whole different like that place i lived there for a couple years and i never knew what the fuck was going on there ever yeah it's it's a lot it's a lot it's not all you know rice roni and cable cars it's a was going on there, ever. Yeah, it's a lot. It's not all, you know, Rice-A-Roni and cable cars. It's a lot going on there. Yeah, right? There's ghettos and there's nice neighbors, rich people, poor people.

There's a creative chaos and a sort of identity chaos that goes on there. Like, I never knew who was in charge or what was happening or why that guy is like that, you know, a lot of questions. Yeah. So you were born in San Francisco? I was born there and then I went to New York. My parents separated when I was five. We lived in the Bronx. But let's talk about San Francisco. Yeah. So you born in San Francisco? I was born there and then I went to New York. My parents separated when I was five. We lived in the Bronx. But let's talk about San Francisco.

Yeah. How long were you there? I kind of went back and forth, but I, San Francisco. What part of town? Everywhere, man. In San Francisco? Yeah. In the, yeah, in proper, you know, like I went to school, APG and NINI and McAteer and Aisha Tyler and Margaret Cho went to McAteer and we were in sort of a school really you're all together yeah when you're like school of the arts really but it was like a you know like can you say fuck can you say fuck yeah yeah it's like a fuck it was like a watered down it was like a low budget fame right but you knew you wanted to do that yeah I mean my parents were actors so I got into it, and I kind of took it for granted. And then we...

They were actors, like working actors? Yeah, yeah. And then my dad dropped out of that, and he became a union organizer. And he was in the printing union. He was a cab driver. Really? He did a bunch of jobs, yeah. But he became a big union guy.

After acting. So, like, what kind of... Yeah, like a union rep for the supermarket clerks. Yeah. You know, I couldn't cross picket lines. We met Harvey Milk when I was like eight. We lived in the Castro. We lived in the Haight-Ashbury.

We lived in Park Merced. Do you remember meeting Harvey Milk? We lived in the Tenderloin, which is- Yeah, that's a rough few blocks. That was before my dad got a good job. Really? That was tough. Yeah, we moved around a lot.

San Diego and- But San Francisco's got a heavy vibe to it. The weather never changes a lot, and it's always sort of cloudy, sometimes with that moving fog. I always felt that there was a mystical element that was a little bigger than me and kind of dark. Kind of Jack London darkness. Yeah, did you feel that?

Well, yeah. I mean, I loved it. I know what you're saying. And when we were in high school, we'd always pray for sun. But now when I go back, I'm like, man, I wish it was always like this everywhere. Yeah, nice and cool. It's clean air.

Temperature's perfect, yeah. You know, it's great. Go up to Point Reyes and just sit there. Yeah. You ever go up north a little bit to Bolinas and shit and walk around? No, I've never been up there. I feel like I've been up north, but- Well, you know, like Paso Marin.

Marin County. Yeah, those little beach areas. I used to go hiking up in Fort Reyes and wander around. What's the other, Stenson Beach? Yeah, Stenson Beach, yeah. I was there. Half Moon Bay. Half Moon Bay, yeah, sure, used to drive down there.

We used to live right by Ocean Beach, actually. We used to live right by the beach. So when you were a kid, though, did you see your dad act? In fact, I remember going to Ocean Beach when John Lennon died. Really? And kind of having a moment of silence or of like silence or something how old were you like 12 yeah probably you know as a kid yeah i remember when he died that was horrendous yeah i don't even remember what year that was i remember when he died i remember when belushi died

belushi was for some reason pretty pretty devastating for me too have you do you have phil hoffman on this podcast no yeah who did i just talk to that work with phil like people have talked about phil so ethan hawk was just in here oh that's right i heard yeah i would have liked to have phil i imagine it might have happened at some point but it didn't get to happen yeah yeah he was a friend of yours right yeah it's weird when you start knowing people who are like gary who are they die it's fucked up man a few people on this show because i i have to put them back up, you know, out of respect and in memory of.

Yeah, people, as you get older, dude, it's going to happen, man. It's really weird, man. Yeah, I try not to think about it. Where are you at with your mortality consciousness? I'm not good.

I think about it every day, man. You do? Oh, yeah, sure, man. Like this is it? I'm 47. I'm like, yeah, I just think about all that shit that shit you know and prostates and all that kind of shit well you got to get that checked you're not one of those guys that's sort of like i ain't doing that no i get it checked i'm clean good but uh you know it's intense isn't it weird that so many guys get

sick because they're too proud to have a fucking clinical person stick a finger in their ass i mean grow the fuck up i think it's a denial sure it is or well you know it does feel good but you know in that moment like well i don't want to commit to this you know yeah yeah no it's a lot man it is sure but let's go back to uh did you ever see your dad work as an actor i didn't i saw my mom work i actually worked with my mom on stage when i was a kid when i was 10 in New York? But my dad quit before I ever saw him act. But that didn't temper your desire to do it? Because he probably was like, fuck this. Was it that kind of quitting?

Yeah, he had to raise me. I mean, he was a single parent. Are you an only child? I'm an only child. Then he got remarried when I was like eight. Yeah. And then we had kind of more of a middle class. Yeah.

And I was sort of a latchkey kid, you know. Back and forth? Yeah, but that we had kind of more of a middle class. Yeah. And I was sort of a latchkey kid, you know. Back and forth? Yeah, but that was more kind of... New York and L.A.? Yeah, I'd go in the summer to visit my mom, and I'd hang out with her. Yeah. And her crazy bohemian friends. She was singing telegrams.

Oh, really? And then I went to this high school, but it was like 500 School of the Arts people within 2,000 city kids. In San Francisco. So it was like, yeah, so we had rich kids coming to do the School of the Arts people within 2,000 city kids. In San Francisco. So it was like, yeah, so we had rich kids coming to do the School of the Arts, and then we also had kids from Hunter's Point and kids from the Mission. Integrated. It was very integrated and very eclectic in how much money people had, and the football team was probably more popular than the acting group.

Always, yeah. So it wasn't really like a proper school of the arts right but i mean but at least it gave you the option to sort of work those muscles and have that creativity it did and i and i took it for granted i smoked pot and chased girls and then when i went to new york i studied with william esper and that's where i met my acting coach terry knickerbocker and that's where things got more like serious right for the acting yeah like I was kind of fucking around until I was like 24 were you doing shows are you doing plays I took it for granted because it was the family business in San Francisco yeah you know what were you where

were you performing uh as far as you were doing shows like when I was in high school you mean yeah or in your early 20s before I was just doing restaurant jobs busting tables and doing and once when i'd like book a commercial i got an agent i'd get these local commercials like national commercials oh yeah it would be like you know winning the lottery sure which ones did you do i did everything i did ford tractor ford track and express yeah i played a drug dealer i did um i did every burger king yeah and i did i did like tons of commercials yeah residual checks coming in so you're making money yeah so i'd be like a bar back and then all of a sudden this check would come in and i could pay the rent for three months you know beautiful it was great it was great it was the best and then as you get you

know you get more notoriety in film you can't obviously i mean you can now it's all changing yeah do commercials but now everything now you can do it anonymously bets are off now yeah no one knew you you're just a guy working for a living i guess there's no shame in it but some guys as you get older in your name you got to be more decisive about what you're going to be putting your face on yeah so so back then your training was really just what you did in high school and performing, so it was sort of like chaotic. Yeah, and my mother teaching me about sort of the rules of improvisation. She was an improviser?

She was. She was in a troupe, and that was the play we did. It was sort of based on these sketches. In New York? In New York. It was called Joan Crawford's Children. Uh-huh. And it was kind of like Mommy Dearest.

Yeah. There was a guy playing Joan Crawford, and my mother was like kind of like Mommy Dearest. There was a guy playing Joan Crawford and my mother was like a sort of a female Doctor Strange loved character. She was the nurse to the kids. It was very strange. It was very strange. But I learned about improv a little bit

and then I studied Meisner as an adult. Meisner, is that where you look at each other and repeat things? Yeah, which is also improv based. Yeah. Because I've done it you just go like you know like sad did you do repetition you did some of that no but i know guys that did it and i'd ask people like you know what was that like you know and they'd be like and

they'd show me how it was done you know what it's like it's really like this it's like it's like being in the moment right and take trying to put your attention on something else right and then you got to be still and you're kind of naked. Right. Like, how do you mean? Like, if it's me and you right now. Well, I say I'd start off with something superficial, like, that's a green shirt.

And you go, yeah, that's a green shirt. Green shirt. And I go, that's a green shirt. And then eventually it might change. You'd be like, you seem kind of perturbed about my green shirt or something. And then you start to read behavior. So you feel the shift. Someone decides that there's a shift.

Is there a rule to it? Like you have to stay on the object for like a minute? The shift was always a strange thing. Like we never knew when to make the shift. And sometimes the teacher would be like, no, don't. Stay with it. Stay with this. He's about to cry.

Stay with the shirt. Stay with the shirt. But then you have to change it. It has to be where you have to. You have to address what's going on. And what'd you learn from that? Well, I learned because first there's like these nervous giggles. Yeah.

And then you start, maybe somebody gets angry or somebody starts crying. Right. So all this is sort of to strip you down so that you just be. Right. You know, and that's what we need in acting is just to kind of fucking be. Right. And stop acting. Right.

You know? Yeah. And, you know, that's the thing I hate when people say actors are good liars. I think, actually, no. If they're trained well, they're supposed to be, that's the best, that's the time when they really tell the truth.

Right. Well, see, I think a lot of people, and some actors do this too, if they don't say that they're good liars, they say we're good at pretending, which is a little different, but still that's demeaning to the craft of acting. But I think a lot of people

don't necessarily have a craft in place and they're just getting away with it because of natural gifts. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, yeah mean it's it yeah it's it's something to be taken seriously if you want to if you want to but it's also master it like a robert duvall or a meryl streep or whoever you know right but there are people that are just

sort of like yeah i can do it and they just show up and they do it and you know you're like oh fuck that guy and but and no one knows for the the wiser but then when you see somebody like yourself or duvall or yeah or young actors who take it seriously and they really fucking lock in, you're like, no, there's something different there. That's what you hope. Yeah, when you see a really great, you know, when you see Benicio or somebody like that.

Oh, man, did you watch Hitsikario? Oh, fucking, he was incredible. What the hell is that? I mean, you know, that's great, man. Are you guys buddies? I know him a little bit. He's a nice guy he's a really he's actually a very sweet guy very funny uh but yeah i mean that's like what he

does that's his that's his zone you know but yeah but what you're talking about you know i i see what you do too in in a lot of the movies i've seen you and i haven't seen all of them because you're one of those guys where you know i look at the the the goddamn resume and i'm like holy fuck am i going to be up all night i'm watching yeah yeah but but there's a presence is what you're talking about it is an ability to be present and emotional and open like someone once told me that uh they were talking to gene hackman i think how he prepared and he just basically said he said i think he said something like i know how to fill up like you know like like before he went on he could just you know pull himself i know how to fill up something like that does that make sense yeah that's great man yeah i worked with him and he

would just kind of keep to himself and all of a sudden he'd be like bang yeah you did yeah we did this david mamet movie uh called heist oh yeah yeah yeah and it was i learned a lot from him yeah just watching him yeah yeah i learned a lot from him. Yeah? Just watching him? Yeah, yeah. I learned a lot. You know, sometimes the camera department, you know, I'm very accommodating. Yeah. Me, Sam. Naturally.

Yeah, I'm like a people pleaser kind of guy, you know. Years of therapy has helped me. Oh, yeah? What did you track that to? The divorce or, you know, the people pleasing? Like, you know. You know, who the fuck knows? I mean, I went to a lot of different schools

and I had to make friends quick and maybe that's why I have good social skills. But I think that, you know, I think often actors are terribly insecure and I think it takes years to learn to kind of ask for what you need on a set. Or to say, leave me alone. Yeah, leave me alone.

Let me do my thing you know and i was in a scene with him in the car yeah and he's got to get angry at my character right and they keep the camera keep camera department is trying to do the shot and they keep sort of telling gene hackman to kind of go like you know hey gene can you can you move a little bit to the on the dashboard you know he's like yeah yeah okay and he's like you know we just want you think you could just come he's like guys guys don't hand me in don't hand me in okay because you know he's got to get emotional right there he's got to yell at my character and he's got to come from a real and so i don't i think he was protecting himself right

he was saying i don't think he was being an asshole right no of course not he was just protecting say hey guys i need to i need to move around here yeah this is not a technical scene you know right right sometimes it's camera day and sometimes it's actor day sometimes it's both right you know and you gotta so it's like pull back get your master and yeah yeah you know what i mean yeah i saw jeffrey wright do that too and it was beautiful he and and you know it's like what'd you do with him i did this movie single shot and you know you're you're doing scenes where you're like driving and the camera department's like can you just go down a little more and you're like like this yeah just go down a little more

you're like hey man i can't drive the car like this, man. You know, like, enough already, you know. So you do the best you can. And you know that they, you know, DPs are amazing. Yeah. I have complete respect for them. But, you know. But there is a moment where, like, they. You're like, come on, guys.

You know. Right. Where they're not really thinking in terms of the practicality of what you have to achieve. They just want to cheat the shot. It's like your eye lines over here. That doesn't make sense. And then you're looking over there and you're having a conversation

that doesn't even exist in real life. But that's the magic of movie making. Yeah. And you know this. You're doing the show. Yeah, yeah, right. And one of my pet peeves is like, nobody cares about the actor off camera.

Right. Nobody gives a fuck about the actor. And I'm like, that's just as important to me yeah yeah is the actor off camera sure you know absolutely like there's something going on here in order to get something out of you yeah he's got to show up for me yeah we're doing something here yeah i'm here for you know maya rudolph or whoever right you know yeah and you know you're there for somebody right and you're like i'm not just trying to get right next to the yeah fucking lens i'm doing something here.

I'm working too, you know. Anyway, I sound like I'm bitching or something. No, you're not bitching. It's just like it's not all the time that I can talk to actors about acting because a lot of times, you know, anyone's craft around it or how they got to where they are is not that defined. You know, they learn some things when they're younger and then they integrate some things, but they can't sit there and tell you what it is. I just had Ethan Hawking here and one of the most astounding things that he said

was that in order to do Training Day, he basically watched Denzel movies because it was like he was watching game footage. That's how he prepared? A little bit, not the character. That sounds terrifying. Not the character, but the sense that he knew how denzel handled the scene and he knew that if he was going to to own himself and his character that he had to you know he really had to show up and not you

know and be you know right alongside denzel not let denzel like you know yeah you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah drive over him yeah it was almost like he's preparing for a game you know he's like i'm watching game footage like see i see how he moved right there you know what i mean that's smart that's smart i would i wouldn't have the balls to ethan's very very smart guy i mean you know i wouldn't have i'd be that would make me nervous but i because i would start to get like hero worship or something yeah i get that too i mean i i it's very hard for me. And then the people pleasing just destroys you if you got the hero worship. Yeah.

What can I do? Yeah, that's bit me on the ass a couple times. Really? Yeah, yeah. Working with big stars? Yeah, you know, early on, you know, you can't. In films or TV? In films, TV, and you kind of.

Like who? Give over your. Sure, yeah. Chi, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't. Well, I'd rather not say, but I, early on, I was definitely like, you yeah yeah you can't well i i'd rather not say but i i early on i i was definitely like became you know you can't be a fan in the scene in the scene you know you

gotta kind of but i like that ethan was kind of strategically going okay this is what i'm this is i gotta watch out for that pass and that thing a little bit that's kind of cool i like that yeah and it wasn't you you know, he loves Denzel with no disrespect, but he just wanted to, he wanted to have his space. You know, when you're with a dude

that's like, you know, just a force of nature, you gotta, you know what I mean? Yeah, totally. And that paid off. I mean,

Ethan's great in that. That's a great movie and they're both great in it. When you were in New York, would you start with theater? I started in theater, and I just did a play in New York with Nina Arianda. We did a play on Broadway. We did this Fool for Love, and I continue to try to do theater.

I've been, it's like going to the gym. It's like doing stand-up, I would imagine. Yeah, that's exactly what it's like. You're not going to do that in film, so it's like working those muscles. Right, there's no cut. Yeah, it's you, man. You got to go. All the way through.

All the way through. Hold it. You got to hold it. I had to do a lasso, too. That was a lot of pressure. Really? I'm glad that's over. Yeah, I had to fucking nail these objects with this lasso.

How long was the run? And I had nightmares that, you know, Ed Harris, the role was written for Ed Harris. Uh-huh. And back back he did it like 30 years ago now that guy's doing he's i think he's doing good he's doing westworld is he you know a new remake of it he's doing the yule burner part i think he's doing the yule burner part the robot yeah oh that's good good casting right yeah yeah he comes but he came to the play finally yeah and he he was very nice he was very and i thank god i roped good that night

because i had nightmares that he was in the audience every night in the roping scene. Because I'd heard all these stories about his performance. He did it 30 years ago. Nailed it every time. Kathy Baker invented the roping scene. Yeah, I said to Sam Shepard, did he ever miss? He's like, no.

I'm like, really? He never missed? Come on. Was it a Shepard play? It's Sam Shepard play. Which one is it? Fool for Love. Oh, Fool for Love is what you're talking about.

Yeah, yeah. I remember that. I remember when that came out. It was a pretty stripped down thing for Sam. Like it was like different than like, you know, his sort of like verbose earlier plays where, you know, it was very, you know, two characters. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah.

And there's these other characters. The guy, Martin, who comes in, and the old man is sort of like the dad. And Gordon Joseph Weiss and Tom Pelfrey do that. Nina Arianda and I are the two lovers. And it turns out they're half brother and sister. It's very... Yeah, there's always a dad in his plays

that walks in and brings the darkness. Yeah, yeah, totally. No, it's a dark play, but it's a cool play. Did he direct you in it? No, Daniel Larkin, this British guy. He's a wonderful director. He directed it, and we had a lot of fun with it. And Philip, what was your relationship with him?

Phil was a friend, and then he was an amazing director, and he taught me a lot about stage acting. But he was a dear friend, and uh you know obviously he was a kind of a mentor even though we're about the same age yeah we were about the same age yeah but yeah i learned a lot from phil you know like what like when you're stage acting like he really looked at it like an athletic event i mean he had like you know wrestling background and right in high school yeah he kind of coached us like it was almost like a football game, you know? It was like Hoosiers or something, you know?

Really? Yeah. Yeah, but he would say incredible stuff to me and Eric, and we were doing the scene Judas and the Devil. It was called Last Days of Judas the Scared, and he'd say, you know, you guys are getting laughs, and I know we got some rewrites, and you're getting a lot of laughs. He's like, I don't give a fuck if you get laughs. I want to scare the audience a little bit you know i want to make them nervous

right right and um so he had this attitude he really wanted you knew that he could he could talk the talk but he could also walk the walk yeah because i've seen him on i saw him on stage in true west and death of a salesman i think i saw him in true west yeah yeah yeah he's a fucking monster he's like george c scott i mean he was a monster didn't he do true west where they would switch up yeah yeah with john c reilly yeah they'd switch the roles up yeah man i mean that's pretty insane man pretty insane yeah to do lee and austin and just to flip it yeah yeah insane yeah but he could do it he could do it and he demanded a lot of himself when he was on stage that's probably what exhausted him and made him so fragile

like he he he definitely had this sensitivity like he was very willing to to go to those places that might break you in real life you know what i mean absolutely absolutely that's what made him special i mean yeah he was he was one of a kind, you know? Yeah. And when you, because I think you will make yourself available too, but you seem to like to do funny shit. Yeah, yeah, I like to do funny shit. You know, either you're funny or you're not funny, I guess. I don't know, right? I was just talking about the other day.

I mean, I don't try to be funny sometimes. You're hilarious. Right. Actually, I was trying to. You know what I mean? funny sometimes and you're hilarious right actually i was trying you know what i mean yeah but you're a naturally funny guy i think people are just funny right or they're not or they're not you know that's in my racket when i want like i've seen comics who are not naturally funny by any stretch of the imagination figure out how to do stand-up and and and learn the craft and be funny because they can only be funny in a certain way

the offstage curious who you're talking about when you say that, like a Stephen Wright or somebody. Well, Stephen Wright's pretty funny because those kind of guys, they kind of invent their own time zone. So if you enter Stephen Wright land, you're going to be laughing because he's operating at a different frequency. So he figured that out for himself, and usually that's what it is. If you don't have a class clown personality you're not like hey look at me

but you have some commitment to being funny you gotta figure out how to hold it you know and be in it you know and i've seen guys who like when i first see him i'm like what the fuck is this and then eventually they figure it out you know what i mean they and it's a real testament to people who know they're funny it's like they don they don't get me yet, but I'm going to figure it out. You know what I mean? That's cool. It is cool. But I think it's probably the same with coming into your own as an actor.

I mean, because people, like when you say Sam Rockwell, people are like, oh yeah, fucking Sam Rockwell. They're not like, who? So they know who you are because of your personality. Yeah. So how do you, like even in Moon, which I fucking loved. Hey, thanks, man. Thanks a lot. That was some good work, dude. I'm glad you, like even in Moon, which I fucking loved. Hey, thanks, man. Thanks a lot.

That was some good work, dude. I'm glad you saw that. Oh, yeah, I saw it and I talked to Duncan on an old show I had. Like when I did Air America stuff, he came in and I'd just seen it and we talked

and he seemed like a sweet guy. Great guy. Flopple guy. Great guy, very talented. You talked to Lynn Shelton, too. Oh, yeah, she says hi, by the way. Yeah, Lynn's awesome. Great director. Yeah, great director. We had a a great time and great great sense of comedy absolutely no she's fantastic man no i uh no yeah i've been really lucky moon moon was really

a you know a brain fuck but it was fun how do you prepare for something like that when you know you're going to be this guy in space alone i mean what what you know what you know we bit a lot of stuff off of dead ringers with jeremy irons and i i watched that's it that's one of those uh off to the side movies yeah yeah and that was the best time i've seen that trick done when he played twins yeah and i actually my acting coach told me to watch midnight cowboy yeah for what reason that was helpful well the care one of the clones is sick too so i kind of stole my sickness from Dustin Hoffman. From Ratso, yeah. And I tried to actually duplicate a shot where John Voight's combing Ratso's hair.

On the bus? It's on a stairwell. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. At the party. Oh, right, yeah. And I said to the technical guys, you know, can we have the clones touch? And they're like, oh, you know, that's very difficult to get the clones to touch.

It takes a lot of, and I was like, well, let's, you know, let's do it, man. I think it'd be really cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of them's sick

and let's replicate this little shot with midnight. And they're like, well, this is gonna, you know, and it was very technical. You have,

if the clones. And you pulled it off. We did it briefly. Yeah. You know, and there's like a C-stand with a tennis ball and you gotta have somebody else's hand. It yeah you know we get and there's like a c-stand with a tennis ball and you got to have somebody else's hand or it's it's very technical so yeah that's it that's the thing that i don't think people really appreciate about acting is like

you know you just spent like 12 hours on that yeah yeah yeah and you're trying to make a really naturalistic moment and it's very technical that's the job yeah that's the job yeah you know very awkward yeah and they don't understand that yeah you're losing the light and you know whatever you know and you're like trying to yeah when we were shooting my show i can't i like there's something like i want to see i'm just going to put it out in the world maybe someone will make it because when you're shooting in la in real time not in a studio you know it's like playing the sound guy's always like playing and you gotta wait it out i just want to see like a short film piece where the sound guy, you're on set. Yeah.

The sound guy's like, plane. And then you hear it crash. And the sound guy goes, okay, we're clear. There is a movie for that, like Living in Oblivion or something. Yeah, yeah. There's a place for that moment. What the hell is that guy's name who did that movie? That guy.

Tom DiCillo. Tom. Yeah, I worked with Tom DiCillo. All right, so where does it really start to, when you start to, because it feels like to me the first time you really entered the consciousness was with the Chuck Beres movie. Well, yeah. I mean, actually, Tom DiCillo and I did a movie called Box of Moonlight that got some notoriety.

And then I started working after that. I did a couple movies, Lawn Dog, Safe Man. And then- Safe Man, yeah. Safe Man's a cool movie. Peter Dinklage and Mark Ruffalo and Steve Zahn. And then it kind of started. And then by the time I did Confessions, I'd done a lot of movies, but I hadn't done anything

that people had really seen although the indie scene was different back then you know yeah so smaller a little yeah i mean people were actually going to movies you know and now the indie scene's kind of gone to cable a little bit yeah you know there's not really like how do you feel about like uh like the about where the business is at movie wise i mean are you a fan of going to the movies i am a fan of going to the movies and i it's a little depressing but it's also what's happening you know and i i don't get the movies as much as i'd like to i mean it's what's happening you kind of have to roll with it yeah you know and they do have these amazing these amazing shows now so it's it's it's kind

of the reality you know but you're living in new New York and your mom's there still. Is she still around? She's still there. She's a painter. Real artist. Real artist mom. Yeah, she's a real, she's a, yeah, she's a. Bohemian spirit. Yeah.

Yeah. And she's like, she's there. So you're hanging out. When you first go to New York, how old were you when you start studying with Esper? I was about 24. And you wanted to do method? I wanted to do, I wanted to have a technique, but I wanted to have a technique, but I didn't take it seriously. And he said, you know, you should really study.

Know what you're doing. He's like one of the guys. He's one of the guys. Yeah, and I talked to other people who study with Esper. One of Meisner's main protégés. So yeah, let's go from there to there. So you do a Meisner. Yeah.

I don't remember a lot of, you know, I don't know too much about the group theater and shit, but I know that Stella Adler, Sanford Meisner, and Lee Strasberg went to Russia and met this guy Stanislavski. Right, yeah, sure. And then they came back and they created their own schools, and that was like three schools. Yeah. And then Brando studied with Stella Adler and all that. And Duvall, I think, went with Meisner and, you know, all that kind of stuff. Right. So you liked Brando, you liked De Niro, you liked those guysisner and you know all that kind of stuff right so you

you liked Brando you liked De Niro you like those guys you know those were the guys you looked up to so so you know uh it's all the same shit you know it's all good acting is good acting right I think but what was the craft you get to put in place when you work with someone like Esper like outside of Meisner exercises you're not doing like fencing or Alexander no that's right it's not a conservatory it's not like Juilliard. You're right. It's not Rada. Right.

But I think it just taught, really the big thing was your emotional responsibility to the text, I guess, if that makes any sense. You have a responsibility to the text, to the play, to the film. And I think that's the biggest thing. You have a responsibility to bring behavior to this text. To respect it and also disrespect it. Be like, the text means nothing. It's about this. Right, about me and you.

And so I think that's the main thing I got. And here's the trick that, like, always baffles me, because I'm not really much of an actor. I've done my TV show, but, like, how do you fucking... I guess I'm just asking for some training. I think you're doing just fine. No, but how do you... Like, you know when you shoot things where you're doing a scene

and then, you know, that scene happens and then you got to do the scene that happens... Oh, of continuity type thing? Yeah it happens earlier that day and like you're right that's totally fucked up I totally yeah. Where you're like yeah. Some people have like they write it out on fucking paper they're really organized. This is where you need to be more tired you're like remember you've had two drinks here. You know it's always good to go back and look at the script and I can you look at your notes that you did two months ago and go okay oh yeah i'm coming from there and then just close or right you know i listen to that i listen to my lines so i listen to i get that rehearsal lap and

but i you know it's always good to go back just when you think oh i've looked at the script enough you've never really looked at it because it's even funny even watching like the movie i watched last night mr right you know when you say i gotta I got to go, and you go outside, and you beat the shit out of that guy. Am I going to spoil anything? Are you saying that you shot the interior? Right, but then you got to come back in, and you're sweaty. Exactly. I just killed a guy, and I'm going to go back in and act like everything's fine.

Okay, I got it. Sometimes that's just jumping jacks, or whatever. Oh, you do that? Yeah, or some bullshit like that. Get a little winded? Hey, can I get some spritz? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like to run around the building and stuff,

but sometimes you just hold your breath. Right. And that's enough. You might not be able to move. Yeah, right, right, right. So you got to hold your breath or something, yeah. So I guess playing somebody like Chuck Beres, because that movie is a very interesting movie.

It's an interesting book, and you don't even know what the fuck it is. Yeah. And Clooney decides to make a fucking movie out of it. Yes, that's right, yeah. And did he just approach you

and go like, you're the guy. I think you're the guy for that. Yeah, well, you know, Charlie Kaufman wrote this incredible script. I talked to him. Yes, I know, I know.

Right, that was trippy. He's a trippy fucking genius. A lot of levels, dude. A lot of levels. Yeah, the guy's amazing. Brain's always going. Brain's always going. Whatever's going on right here, he's a he's a trippy a lot of levels a lot of levels yeah the guy's brain's always going brain's always going whatever's going on right here that he's working big problems you know he's only got a landline you know that makes sense of course why wouldn't he why why

be distracted with that garbage exactly i want to like those guys who respect their mind enough to know that everything is a distraction it's just going to rob us of our fucking brain yeah good for them yeah good i gotta check my text yeah no exactly it's a nightmare dude it's a nightmare the only good thing is you can listen to like a podcast or something or look up some some art shit or look you got a picture or whatever even that's obnoxious but um yeah yeah no but clooney really uh got me that part. He fought for me to get that part, and they didn't want me to play that part. No?

I think they wanted Ben Stiller, and we screen tested, and then they did not want me for the part. It's funny because I think that you and Clooney probably got along great. You seem like similar spirits in some way. Yeah, I really had a good time with him. He's a funny guy. Yeah. He's a funny guy.

Yeah, he is a funny guy. He's one of these weird, classy movie stars that kind of can do everything. You're sort of like, there's got to be a flaw somewhere. Well, that's just the way I think. It's like, that guy can't be as perfect as he seems. Everybody's got something. Sure. But he's pretty awesome.

He's like Tom Hanks. He's one of those guys. And that was his first film directing job. So did you feel like you guys were learning together? Absolutely. He was getting after it. I mean, he was doing his homework. Oh, yeah?

He got after it. We did these incredible one-er shots. I mean, he did an amazing job with that movie. Oh, yeah, yeah. He did an amazing job with that movie. It's a great movie. He didn't really get the credit until later, like 10 years later. Did you go meet with Chuck?

Yeah, I hung out with Chuck. I filmed Chuck. I spent, I hung out with Chuck. I filmed Chuck. I spent a lot of time with Chuck. I filmed, I had him tape my lines. I was all over Chuck. Chuck and I hung out a lot. Did he not, was it true? Did he believe it was true?

He did. He did. And I didn't really want to know if it was true or not. So I just tried to believe that it was true and i was just doing you know i was doing three days of the condor serpico i didn't i didn't want to know what was going on you know yeah yeah so but i you know i'd like to see chuck i think he moved to paris i don't know where he is i haven't seen him in years you know i grew up with the gong show on TV. Yeah, sure, me too. He was just this guy, hey, you know, like. He would squint.

The reason he would squint is because he didn't have his glasses and he was looking at the cue cards, you know. People thought he was stoned. Yeah. You know, and. He was a character, man. He was a character, man. He created a lot of reality TV, the dating game.

Yeah. You know, he was. Yeah, those weird game shows. Yeah. Those were showcases for stand-ups. Yeah. Like, I didn't realize that until much later that, like, you know, you'd see all these comics on. You know, of weird game shows. Those were showcases for stand-ups. Yeah. I didn't realize that until much later. You'd see all these comics on.

Of course they'd put comics. Do bits. Do stuff. Yeah. I watched a lot of gong shows. I auditioned for the dating game. It's a later manifestation when I was out here in the late 80s. I was all fucked up on drugs and shit.

I didn't have the confidence for it. That was back when I was hanging out with the late 80s. I was all fucked up on drugs and shit. And I didn't have the confidence for it. That was back when I was hanging out with Kenison and shit. Or maybe even before. How do you audition for a dating game? Well, they had segment producers at the time. So they would have regular people, but then they'd want people who had comic shops or something. So you'd go do a fake dating game.

Yeah. And see if they want to put you on the real show. Yeah. That's it. That's the audition. I was so squirmy. For a guy who spends a lot of time on stage, at the beginning, I'm not sure. I think I was just doing it for self-destructive reasons.

I don't want the adulation at the beginning. Yeah. I was just sort of like, what the fuck do you want from me yeah that was my my angle why did you make me come here to get exposure you got talked into it to get exposure or something what the dating game yeah yeah no i think it was a chick actually you know she was booking it and i think you know we had a thing for a minute and and then uh you know and then i went to her house and all I remember was a lot of dirty dishes and bugs.

And then she was a producer on the dating game. She asked me if I wanted to do it. I'm like, all right. It didn't work out. And I don't know what happened. That's awesome. You have those stories. You get to a certain age and you spend time in and out of this town or in this business where you're like, oh, yeah.

Oh, shit. That did happen. Yeah. You have some of those? Yeah, sure. Sure. Yeah, sure. Thank God there was, that did happen. Yeah. You have some of those? Yeah, sure, sure. Yeah, sure. Thank God there was no social media then.

Absolutely. No, God almighty. Some of the shit, no. Right. Some of the shit I did, man. When things were fun? Forget about it, man. When things were fun?

Yeah. So what about like all the stuff that you did on television, you know, leading up to the movies? I mean, some of that shit's pretty real and pretty you know like a good training ground right you did some of those procedurals and stuff yeah like on tv law and order and stuff like that yeah sure that was really all that was a good training ground that's booked out of new york right mostly yeah that's when you know the new york actors were getting jobs on on those shows and and now it's switched to like boardwalk empire and and this new vinyl. Yeah.

You see a lot of New York actors getting jobs there. Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's all, you know, it was network and indies and now it's cable. But yeah, it was a good way to make a living and, you know, get some training. Work an actor. Yeah, you know, and as a guest,

you always come on with like way too much energy. Right. And the regulars are like falling asleep you know yeah they're like and you're like coming in you're jazzed yeah yeah you worked all week yeah on your on your five lines yeah you're ready to cry and shit you know and they're like lunch you know you know you guys are like okay let's take it down rockwell let's take it down a little too much acting you know we're just trying to make our day yeah they just want to get finished oh I'm trying to win it

win an Emmy yeah I had that horrible realization when I used to do Conan a lot you know where I do you know I do stand up on Conan do stand up or panel you know do the thing but I get there and you know we go out and I get out there and we do our thing and the audience yeah and then you know there's that moment afterwards they're like oh where are we going now and they're like what do you mean it's our job we did the same thing yesterday who are you you know well they're not rude about it but you're like this is cool man right right there's that realization like oh my god they do this every day you know i'm just you know you know we just it's i'm just it's a job in a way but it's show business that's that's the sad

part about show business i know but it's it's cool to be over eager and you know it's it's actually cooler sometimes well right but like when you're on set and you're just sort of hanging out like a lot of people talk about how much downtime there is on set yeah like i you know it like it doesn't bother me initially it's sort of like you know you're like you're you go to your trailer and you're like no what the fuck am i gonna do am i gonna jerk off am i gonna read a book and then you start you're like you go to your trailer and you're like no what the fuck am I gonna do am I gonna jerk off am I gonna read a book and then you start to realize

I'd be done if I jerked off that would be no acting would be happening that day where's Rockwell what happened

to your energy I left it in a Kleenex in the trailer totally forget it man no that is how do you manage

that time it's I don't like that time at all. I mean, I hope, that's why I try to, yeah. You just got to get out of your trailer, take a walk. Yeah. Sit in the chair outside. I'll just go sit.

Yeah. You know, on the set and just like, you know, watch people do set up things. Yeah, yeah. You know, try not to get in the way of the gaffer, the lighting guy. Yeah, yeah. What do you got there? It's like, we're working. Okay, you know.

I know. That's when you wish smoking was good for you, you know. Oh, yeah. Smoking you got there? It's like, we're working. Okay. I know. That's when you wish smoking was good for you. Oh, yeah. I love smoking on sets. But do you have an appreciation for like, because your dad was a union guy for the union guys? I mean, it's- Absolutely. I'm always like very aware of the unions.

People like hate unions. They're like, oh, the Teamsters, you know, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'm, yeah, the unions, I grew up to love unions. Yeah, and they're all sort of like, there's this whole sort of tier of employment on a set. You know, you got your craft services guy where you're like, you know, where'd they come from?

You know, how'd they get the gig? Sometimes there's a craft service person that's a little too ambitious and walking around with a tray and you're like, yeah, I don't know. Did you invent this? You know, what is this? But then there's the one that levels up and then you got your union guys

and then you got the actors. It's's just like in the producer it's kind of amazing it is an amazing thing yeah and it's a dictatorship yeah it's not a democracy i think that people don't always well you just hope that you have a somewhat benevolent dictator you know like that like you've worked with a lot of directors yeah like a clooney or somebody who's nice yeah hopefully you have somebody nice because it is not, it's not a democracy. Somebody's boss. Yeah.

Did you work Woody Allen? I did a little movie with, I mean, I did a little part in Celebrity. Yeah. Which is the movie he did with DiCaprio and I had all these scenes

with DiCaprio and- You guys friends? We're friendly. We know each other, but we're not like, we don't hang out. What did you think of The Revenant?

I love The Revenant. I mean, i thought it was like jeremiah johnson on steroids i love jeremiah johnson i mean i thought it was fucking amazing i thought the revenant was like i thought i was like a kid in a candy store yeah he did a great job yeah i mean a pretty sweet guy like a pretty you know level guy he's very smart that guy i was impressed with him when he was working with woody allen he was very like he because i was very nervous around woody allen you know and he was like i mean he was he was a kid you know yeah he was like i think it should be this way you know and i'm like that's woody dude and he was like really self-confident i i admired that i learned a lot from but what he kind of wants that right he did he just wants you to do your job right yeah you know i dicaprio actually had this great i had a like a scene in a jacuzzi and with a we had like prostitutes and it was a very supposed

to be very caligula you know decadent and cocaine and you know dicaprio said you should have a drumstick or something like a like a you know like a roman yeah and i said yeah that's a great idea how do i get a how do i get a drink you What do you go for that? He's like, yeah, fuck it. Just get a drumstick. So we call we we couldn't find a drumstick. Let's talk to props first Yeah, you know we before we present the idea. Yeah, and they had like a lamb shank Yeah, we brought it to woody. I said in DiCaprio kind of helped me. Yeah go there Right, right, you know and he said Sam's got this idea. He made it seem like it was my idea Yeah, and what he was like, you know, do you really want to maybe you shouldn't eat that though maybe you should pretend to eat it you know i can't do woody but you know and and so i put some grapes in my mouth and i pretended but but you know it

worked yeah you know anyway it's just it's it's uh yeah i don't know what the point of that story is but he's very working with woody yeah and and and dicaprio very very nice i like that you like jeremiah john Johnson because I actually had this weird thought before you came over. Oh yeah, I'm a nerd for the 70s. We could talk about that

for an hour. But like, I had this idea that you should redo, you should do a remake of Butch and Sundance, a Butch Cassidy and Sundance kid.

Oh man, I'd love to do that. And you should play I think the Redford part, right? What do you think? I mean, I'd play either part.

Either part I think you could play. I just like that you do these parts where you can really kind of, even in H hitchhiker's guide where you're just sort of like you know it's almost like a rock star weirdo you know like what yeah i mean i love that shit man yeah i love that shit too you like getting big and funny and weird you know even i really wanted that to be like a franchise i think i said the hitchhiker's guy yeah and it's you know

but uh yeah that was a great that was a fun character. Yeah. Like, I think I got the idea in my head that, you know, do you choose, like, have you said no to, like, huge opportunities? I've said no to money. I've said no to money. I wouldn't say, like, you know, I turned down the Titanic or something. I've turned down, every time I've done stuff for money, I've regretted it. Oh, yeah? I don't really, just for the money. Right. I mean, money time I've done stuff for money, I've regretted it. Oh yeah?

I don't really, just for the money. Right. Money's part of the equation. Sure, sure. You wanna feel like you're earning an honest living? Yeah, you know, it's hard to make money in show biz, but when you get a chance to, it's good, but it's like, I always, I try to,

I've turned down some money. Yeah. Yeah, because, but not just because of the money, because the project, they're obviously offering you a lot of money. No, I want the down some money. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Because, but not just because of the money, because the project, they're obviously offering you a lot of money. No, I want the money, obviously. But like, I'm not going to do that for the money.

Yeah. You know, there's limits. You know, and you're like, I can't, I can't do it, man. I can't do it.

But you're always working, right? I'm always working. I'm fine. You know, I make a good living. I'm comfortable and I'm happy just making a good living.

Would you do a cool TV series? i would do something like a true detective like a 10 part thing yeah yeah i i'm a little spoiled from the movie world and i like to see my lines in advance and they do a lot of rewrites on their shows and i don't know if i would do well with that i've i've done a little bit of that on on iron Man 2 with rewrites. So that's different than improvising. You really have Justin Theroux? Justin Theroux, who wrote this great script, and we were doing rewrites.

Like Day of shit? Yeah, you know, because if it wasn't for him and Favreau, I wouldn't have got through that thing because there were a lot of rewrites. Same thing, Charlie's Angels. So I had to wear an earwig with this gun with this gun scene with don sheetal and you know you don't want to do that or look at cue cards so i i think that's the main thing is i'd want to just and maybe that's me being spoiled and wanting to prepare but i when you prepare when you say because i i know like what i learned is a lot of it hinges on on choices for you know like i know

there's the method element of it is being present, but then you sort of have to like, I talked to a guy yesterday, this comic who does TV acting a bit, and he says he'll look at a line and he'll see where the laugh is and then he'll start taking apart the line thinking like, well, I can maximize the laughs.

I can get four laughs out of this line where there's one written. Do you make choices like that? No, I can maximize the laughs. I can get four laughs out of this line where there's one written. Do you make choices like that? No, I try to not. Even though I know where the laughs are sometimes, I see that instinctively. And maybe unconsciously you're going for a laugh, but I think that's a danger.

There's a real danger there. Sure, sure. But what about just even if it's not laugh, even if for emotional impact, do you make those kind of decisions? Yes. I mean, you know, the danger is when you're asking to pass the salt and you know you can get a laugh there. I mean, sometimes you just got to ask, you know, can you pass the salt

and not go for the laugh. Of course, of course. But, yeah, I think I like to stew in shit a little bit, stew with the part a little bit. And you don't always have that luxury. That's a luxury now, you know? Yeah. But if you can get, you know, a couple months to prepare.

I mean, you know, there's a reason Daniel Day-Lewis is so good. Yeah. You know, he prepared for a year for the Lincoln thing. You know, he told Tony Kushner I think he was allowed to say no more rewrites. Right, right. Because he has that clout. Right, right. You know, and he's fucking great in that part.

Right. Because he prepared for it. And he does one movie a decade. Yeah, you know. And I, you know, me and Nina ran lines for a year for Fool for Love. Me and Nina Arianda. And we did good work because we had a year. You know, if you have a year or two months, and that's a luxury.

And people don't get that. But it should be more like that than it is. That's true. But it's, you and people don't get that but yeah it was it should be more like that than it is that's true but it's you know it's not that way yeah not not not in movies where you're like we're we're gotta we gotta get this done by today that's why you gotta prepare ahead of time you know that's the extra work you know but anyway but when you did this role let's talk as we wrap it up about about mr right because you really your performance and your relationship with anna kendrick is is is great and and this i imagine you look at this guy and you're like well there's a guy

that used to kill people and he really doesn't want to do it anymore so yeah so like i could see how that could be sort of characterologically a meaty thing to sort of work on like you know this is you know you're presenting yourself in a very you know flat tone about what you're doing but you're telling the truth but it comes off as jokes but there's part of you that's really wrestling with the with the with the morality of the thing yeah sure sure i think i think um there's a book i read about psychopaths for seven psychopaths actually i think some of the homework john ronson's book yeah is that the yeah the psychopath the british guy the psychopath test yes yeah it's great that book was really helpful he's funny for seven psychopaths which is a martin mcdonough movie i think maybe some of that helped

but but really i mean the a lot of the homework was just i mean like movies like i mean literally like romancing the stone or gross point blank i think having that kind of tone tone you know and because we got anna we were really lucky because she could do that. You know, it's a particular thing. Well, I think I love what you do and I love your presence and you do great work. Hey, thanks. Vice versa, dude. Vice versa. And I'm glad we got to talk.

Yeah, man. And good luck with the talk today. You're going to be sitting with Aisha. Yes, that's right. Who you went to high school with. Yes. We briefly dated, yes. Oh, did you?

Yeah, yeah. Well, get prepared to talk about that yeah yeah you ready you ready to do that okay thanks man thanks man how great was that that was fun me and sam rockwell the movie is mr right it's got anna kendrick in it comes out this Friday you can always go to wtfpod.com for for that kind of stuff my dates oh don't worry about it go to wtfpod.com uh slash calendar I think that uh Nebraska sold out and Iowa City sold out Kansas City on the 10th at the um Midland uh theater whatever, grab tickets for that.

You can go to WTFpod.com slash calendar. What else? Oh, yeah, I'm on a Trapper Shep album. Their new record, Rangers and Valentines, comes out on Friday. You can get it wherever you get music. And if you check out the last track, Dream, you'll hear me on guitar back there in the mix. Yesterday, me and my buddy Jack Boulware,

just who I hadn't seen in a long time, we hadn't hung out, just set up a couple amps in the living room yesterday and jammed like old guys. It's funny what you end up on. I think we did Cowgirl in the Sand for a half hour and Stormy Monday for another half hour and felt like rock gods. That's the way that works. Boomer lives! You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that.

Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis

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