WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 700 Part 1 - Julia Louis-Dreyfus

Episode Date: April 21, 2016

It's a two-part 700th Episode extravaganza. First, Marc and Julia Louis-Dreyfus talk Seinfeld, SNL, Second City, Larry David, Woody Allen, Veep, being a mom, and getting older. Then for Part 2, Marc's friend Louis CK stops by to spill the beans on everything that went into making and releasing his series Horace and Pete. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Alright, let's do this. How are you what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fucksters? I'm Mark Maron this is wtf welcome to the show is my podcast i'm sitting in my garage where i've done pretty much for 700 episodes this is the 700th episode of wtf i can't fucking believe it can Can you? It's pretty insane. It's like, you know, what's weird is that I think about the life of the show. I think about my life. I think about where it started and where it came from. I know there's plenty of other product out there, content, things that happen daily that, you know, don't go celebrated necessarily like these landmarks. that don't go celebrated necessarily like these landmarks in my podcast,

in my podcast history, in the history of this show, of me. But it's pretty insane. It's pretty unbelievable. And I'm pretty humbled and grateful by all of it. And today is a very special episode, although the people who are on today's show had no idea it was a 700th episode this is the first sort of hundredth marker that we didn't necessarily make a big deal out of because we we do the show we we we like to do the show i'm talking we my producer and business partner brendan m Brendan McDonald, who is equally as responsible for this show.

We do it because it's something we love to do. It's become a beautiful job and it's become very important to many of you. So we didn't create a special show per se. What we did here today is I talked to two people. show per se what we did here today is i talked to two people again neither of them knew it was a 700th episode until i told them my first guest on part one there are two parts today there are two separate podcasts two parts uh on this on this one uh part one is uh julia louis who i've been dying to talk to for a long time i'm a huge fan of hers i think she's hilarious i was nervous about it because i i think she's one of the greatest comic actors

period uh who has ever lived and and uh i've always been sort of enchanted by her and i didn't think she ever wanted to do the show so so it was very exciting for me to talk to her and uh the second part the second podcast the second part of the 700th uh wtf is uh louis ck louis was in town and i gotta tell you uh he was just you know excited to finally talk about the process of creating and making Horace and Pete, which I watched all 10 episodes of. And I got to say, it's really something. It's a real masterpiece. It's a real undertaking, a real creative. It's just mind blowing that he pulled it off and that he honored himself so beautifully and so precisely and so differently than usual.

So that's part two that you will have to download separately. It's another podcast, but they're two parts of our 700th episode. But I think I need to catch up on my life a little bit first, and then I'll share some more of my feelings. Jury duty. Went down there, was ready to serve. It was a superior court. I was nervous, but I knew I had to went down there uh was ready to serve it was a superior court i was nervous but i i knew i had to go down there and uh i thought that you know i would try to get out of it and you know say that i have an anger problem or you know it's weird about jury duty is that when you get there

and you go through the process and then you get chosen to be selected and you go into that courtroom you're not so confident anymore. It's tough being a bullshit artist. I imagine if you had to, if you're a lawyer or defendant that is trying to hide his guilt, I imagine the survival instinct and the need to win would make you a tremendous bullshit artist. But just as a guy that was there to do his civic duty and willing to do it, I realized that I should do this. And I kind of wanted to do his civic duty and willing to do it i realized that like i should do this and i and

i and i kind of wanted to do it and i got into that courtroom and the in this uh the woman who was the judge um you know i was number i was the third juror they explained the case it was a it was a medical malpractice case they asked if you served on a jury before i said no i i went downtown a while back and I was not selected. And I got to be honest with you, I'm supposed to go to New York next week. You know, I'm doing the Tonight Show. It's important for my career. And I'd like to do that. And I know I've postponed before and I'd like to try to postpone again. And she said, well, I don't know if you can postpone again, but why don't you go downstairs and see if they can place you on another trial, a shorter trial?

And I'm like, OK, thank you, Your Honor. And they let me go. You know, time served, jury served. And I felt like I, you know, I felt like I weaseled out of something that I should do. And, you know, look, I'm not I'm not telling every court in California that I'm openly available, but I will put aside more time next time for the Superior Court, but I got out of it. So there's closure on that

for those of you who thought it was some sort of cliffhanger. I was ready, but I did not get asked to serve. And quite honestly, I was relieved. And that's that, all right? Okay, look. 700 episodes and why we didn't make a big deal out of it. It is a big deal.

It's a big deal to me. But as I was saying before, as far as our intentions for this show, I wanted all these conversations to be vital any time you listen to them. I went out of my way to not tether them to current events or to talk about current events uh some of you may think i'm self-indulgent but but it was my decision to to deal with my the parameters of my life and my feelings and my emotions and where i am in the world primarily to have that as part of the narrative of the show but also to sort of make these shows available and and relevant

at any time that you listen to them and i'm very proud of the fact that brendan and i were able to put together 700 episodes 700 unique episodes some of them live some of them not done here in the garage that that will really they they work as they're they're not time capsules they're not dated they may be time capsules in the sense of of people's careers many of the people that i've talked to have gone on to bigger things many of them have passed away sadly uh some of them have have gone on to different lives but these these episodes are portraits in time and uh and that was always the intention so like let's say you get the howl.fm if you go go to how.fm and get that app for the

archives, you can really dip into anywhere you want and pick these episodes with people that interest you and, and, you know, see them at that point in their career. And most of the time, get a good sense of who they are emotionally and, and, and when, who they are as people. And I have a profound interest in that. I can't begin to tell you how important it is for me to have these conversations, even 700 in. Like if I don't have a talk in here a couple of weeks, you know, I get squirrely. I don't know, you know, who I am in the world or where I stand. It helps me to be selfless and also to be there for somebody else. I'm not always great at that in my real life,

but here in the garage, you know, I open myself up and I make myself available for somebody else. And I really listen and get moved by their stories, no matter where they go or what happens. And I don't always know where they're going to go. Most of the time I don't. And I don't know what's going to happen. So it's always thrilling for me.

You know, what I want to say is, is thank you. Because I had no idea really where this would go or where it would lead. And the fact that these conversations

I have with people in this garage have found a place in your lives and mean something that I could never have imagined to your life, whatever it may be, however you engage with this show, whatever your expectations are, the amount of feedback I get from you about, you know, how it makes you feel or

what problems it brought up in you and helped you with resolution or feeling less alone or whatever it is, however you're comforted or entertained by this, I had no idea that that would happen. I had no idea that this show would have the life it's had. And really, in terms of this landmark of 700 episodes, and these two guests specifically, who are some of the greatest comedy stars that this country has produced uh julia

louis dreyfus and louis ck that was a coincidence i didn't really didn't anticipate the louis talk to be to begin with but but the fact that you know this is a this is a landmark in me having these conversations we just wanted to do what we do i told them both that it was a 700th episode but i didn't they didn't know they were coming into it. But I thought I should let them know. So I hope you enjoy our two-parter here. And again, thank you for listening. I am genuinely not only grateful,

but proud of this show and proud that we pulled it together out of nothing but but the desire to have these conversations and the will to do them consistently and evolve as uh as people who am i talking to all of us who am i talking about all of us i don't know too much coffee all right if you don't watch veep, the new season starts this Sunday night. If you do watch it, I'm sure you're very excited. If you don't, you should catch up. This is me and Julia Louis-Dreyfus.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising.

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and i met you briefly i auditioned for veep at the beginning you did i did you don't have to remember me well no i don't know it was like i don't remember exactly what guy if it was one of the regular guys or it was right at the beginning it was for the you know the first oh like that far back oh because you're on season five yeah so it was at the beginning and but you were there and uh you know the creator was there. What's his name again? Armando. Yeah, they were all there, and it was just a couple of lines. And I thought I'd offended you somehow. I made a joke, and I didn't know if it landed correctly. Well, let's just say I don't remember.

That's fine. So is that good news? Sure, it's good news. What was the joke? Do you remember well i remember like the the tone of it had you know was obviously politically charged and i made a joke sarcastically that if taken not sarcastically would have meant that i was you know like some sort of right-wing idiots oh i'm sure i knew it was a joke yeah i would i would think you know

but there was a beat there right like you know when you only have like two seconds in those rooms in fact as you're telling me this it's making me anxious when you walk out like you you literally in there 49 seconds and for a week you're like oh it's just fucked up that she thinks i'm oh my god but i'm i'm no i'm grown up enough to know that you didn't register it at all i didn't i'm happy you don't remember me at all. It makes me very excited. It's one of the rare times where I was going to say that may be the first time in all of Hollywood history that an actor has said that. So what, you just, you were out doing things? I was just a

mix, actually, for Veep. So when does the new season start? I think we're putting this up the day right there. Oh, really? You're the 700th episode. It may not mean anything to you, but it's- No, that is actually very significant. Why don't we have party hats?

I know. I'm serious. We should be celebrating. Yeah, it's- 700? Yeah. You're the celebratory guest. I didn't know if I was going to tell you, but I think you should know that you're-

There's no pressure. Oh, I don't feel any pressure. Oh, good. Yeah. God, 700, that's a lot of fucking talking i know isn't it crazy a lot of people have been in here a lot of people have sat there that's incredible you're the first person from uh actually i think from uh yeah i've not talked to jerry i've not talked to jason i've not talked to larry i haven't talked to any of them you're the only sign for a person well you need to rectify that, I guess. I don't know how to get hold of those guys.

I don't think. Just have your people call somebody. Yeah, but they don't. I don't know. They don't do anything. I could probably get Jason, you know, but I don't think Jerry and Larry have any interest in doing my show. But look at you.

You're already saying no to yourself. You haven't even tried. You're right. Thank you. See, this is why this is the 700th episode. I'm learning. I'm going to be proactive. Hey, how does a podcast work? How do you make money from this? Do you? Yeah, we do now. That's awesome. Yeah, it works like a lot like all the people that used to

advertise on radio realize that radio is not really functioning anymore. So we have advertisers. We now are part of the archive. Only the most recent 50 are available for free. For six months, every episode's free. And then it goes behind a sort of an app wall that people subscribe to. But mostly advertising. But these episodes get like 500,000 to a million downloads. That's extraordinary.

So people listen. Yeah. yeah yeah that's so great my kids listen to podcasts now how old are the kids 18 and 23 well they're big yeah and so but it's funny because it's almost like a throwback to old-timey radio sure yeah and uh they're telling me what podcasts to listen to and oh did i make the list or no yeah you did okay but anyway that's why i'm here because my kids told me it was cool yeah i because i was i wanted to interview you before or i talked to you it's not really an interview i don't i don't even have a sheet i left it in the house do you want to go get it no all right i don't think i do want to go get it because like i uh you Because you're like one of the funniest people alive.

Nah. No, I really believe that. I appreciate that, but- I do not say that lightly. Okay. What is this? It's a rock. Why is it here?

Is it petrified something? You know what that is actually from? Have you ever been to Kauai? Yeah. Oh, I see. It's volcanic rock. No, it's not. It's from that weird shitty beach in Kauai where they, I think it called like a glass beach where you go and all the sand is glass you know from garbage and

there's these old rotted um uh leftover ship parts and motor parts and this is like a some weird old piece of steel cool that i probably shouldn't have stole not an exciting backstory but you've been to kawaii you like it there it It's okay. Yeah. For what? I know if you stay longer than eight days, it's a problem. It's all fine. It's all fine. You know, do you like to go anywhere? Yeah, I do. I like to go to, where do I like to go? Is there a place you repeat? Like you go back to like, Oh, I'm going to take a break and I'm going to go to that thing, that place. You know, it's so funny that you're asking me this now because I'm trying to think of what do I just love and I'm having trouble remembering. But I know I love Santa Barbara, California.

That's close. Yeah. That's not even like really an escape. No, it's not an escape. You're right. the most sort of happy adventures I've had are ones where we just really escape and get into the natural world. Yeah, yeah.

Galapagos, for instance. I've been there twice. Yeah, I went twice. My mother went. It changed her life. It's quite life-changing. And it's so otherworldly. I love them.

We went to the Grand Canyon recently. Amazing, too. People underestimate that. Oh, my God. It's just glorious. And we went river rafting in Chile once. That was also great. You know, those kinds of trips,

which are not particularly cushy, although I love a good hotel. Like, I love. But I love those other kinds, particularly with our boys. You know, it's fun to have sort of these adventure things that we're all taking away. And you'll never forget them. Yeah, really.

Yeah, I can't sit on a beach. I got to move. That's why Kauai's okay. You can go hiking and stuff. Right, I see. But like any vacation for me after eight days, it's sort of like you're going to fuck it up. Because like if you stay nine, you're like, we got to eat at that place again. And then if you stay 10, you're like, we shouldn't have come here.

You need to be exploring or doing something. Right. Right. Yeah, I'm not a lie around person. I can do that for two days maybe if I have a good book or podcast to listen to. Yes.

I'm so glad that your kids compelled you. But I seriously do think you're hilarious. Thanks a lot. Why do you not think you're, why do you not take that well? No, I don't mean to be

impolite or anything. No, it's not impolite. Thank you very much. I don't know, you know, I don't, because I won't live or anything. No, it's not impolite. Thank you very much. I don't know. Because I won't live up to your expectation. That's why. I'm not expecting you to be funny. Good, because it's not going to happen.

Good. I'd be happy if we both ended crying. That would be at least something. Actually, it would be interesting. It would be good. What? You were about to tell me people cried here? Oh, no.

People have cried here. But not a lot. Right. Like I feel it happening. I just sit here? Oh, no, people have cried here. Uh-huh. But not a lot. Right. Like I feel it happening, I just sit here and I go like that to Kleenex. Yeah, like you're at the therapist. Yeah. But they usually hand it to you, right? Yeah, or it's behind your head.

No, I had Will Ferrell in here and he is decidedly not turned on when he's in an interview. What's odd about the, you know Will, right? Not Will. Not Will? He's very funny, don't you think? Hilarious. Right. Like really, like naturally.

Like just, you look at him and you laugh. Exactly. It's an incredible gift. Right, exactly. So he's sitting there. Isn't that amazing that some people have that thing where you know. You're going to laugh. You know it. And you're just on the edge of your seat waiting. And're going to laugh. You know it.

And you're just on the edge of your seat waiting. And it's a very, it's a rare thing. I get that with Kevin James too, oddly. Oh, do you? Yeah. Like when he does stand up and he's just standing there. Oh, I haven't seen him do stand up. There's a discomfort to it all.

That like he just kind of has to. Yeah. You know, his whole body needs to be funny at all times. Yeah. But yeah, but Will is there and I knew that he had a history of not, you know, he'll just talk. He's not going to turn it on.

Yeah. But it's weird when that happens. You're just sitting there and part of you is sort of like, you know, like I'm going to laugh in a second, you know, and it's just not coming. And then when he just gives you the littlest like voice, you just die. You die.

Yeah. It's crazy. It must be irritating to him. Well, I think he gets off on it. Yeah, he must get off on it. What am I talking about? But you work with very funny people on Veep. See, that's your thing, though. I mean, you work with funny people, and you're a hilarious comic actor.

It must be exciting to do this show. It's a dream. I mean, those guys are hilarious, all of them. Oh, yes, they are. I'm glad you didn't cast me. I wasn't right oh was it that wasn't funny enough it's true like how does it how's the experience compare like we'll go back in a second but in terms of like what seinfeld was which is you know the the the scripts and the sets i mean what's the difference in the experience of this outside from you're the lead and the president and you're dealing with Washington.

It's completely different, I imagine. Well, it's very different, but fundamentally, I'm going to say it's similar. Yeah? Yeah, because it's a very, very funny group of people who like to play and work it as an ensemble. Right, right. And so all we're trying to do is get to the funniest thing we can get to as a group.

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so in that sense, it's similar. Yeah. But of course, tonally, it's completely different. Yeah. But it does have that fundamental similarity which i think is imperative to be in place and what's it what's the key to it though like when you were like you like i know walsh matt walsh you gotta have i've had him on oh yeah years ago years ago i love him

i love yeah i mean i knew them when they started in new york yes but they're like how do you orchestrate such a large cast at times you know to sort of find funny because there's a lot of physical comedy there's the script but there's also movement in there i mean how much do you improvise or do you run just run it over and over again before because you're we we we improvise and we run it i mean there it's just a fucking soup of all of it. Right. And it's a mess and it's somewhat chaotic and the hours are excruciating and it's very hard work. But rewarding.

Ultimately rewarding. But sometimes you feel as if you are going to die from it. Really? Yes. I'm not kidding. I don't think people realize that. I know.

I probably shouldn't be saying that because it doesn't sell it particularly well. No, people love the show. It's a funny show. It's not going to undersell it but i've been sort of hung up about like because i think a lot of people who are just watching us work they don't they don't really take in mind that like it's it's hard work it's hard work yeah i mean we're not uh you know don't just show up and do your play right and then everyone claps and you go home it you know you're not you're not curing cancer but it feels like it when you're doing it right that's like what what would make it

excruciating day like because you you're sort of like you feel like you're gonna die just like well i mean if a scene isn't working and it's taking longer to get and you're trying to figuring it out on figure it out on the in the. Is that usually a comedy issue when a scene isn't working? That is the most difficult challenge, the comedy. If a scene's not working because, I mean, there are billions of reasons a scene doesn't work. The camera isn't in the right place

or it doesn't make plausible sense. That's the other thing is that we're trying constantly to sort of thread that needle of- Oh, what happened with this guy two episodes ago? Is this going to add up? Or do you buy this? Right. Is the reality of this circumstance at this place in this moment, do we feel as if we

vetted this enough so that you would actually buy that this might happen? Because you're the president. You have to- Yeah. that you would actually buy that this might happen. Because you're the president. You have to have... I mean, and of course, there is, you know, there's a, you know, what's the word?

An element of suspension of disbelief, but not too much. We try very hard. In fact, we have a lot of consultants who work on the show who are in the business of politics who read our scripts. That's exciting like um eric lesser uh who worked with the president and which president sorry obama yes the current one anita mcbride who worked with the bushes and her husband uh uh who else do we have we have a lot tammy haddad and so these they're all honest consultants yeah

just washington insiders people have done them and and they're on set or are they just there sometimes they stop by set but ultimately we send them scripts and do they and what are their notes like this would never happen yeah or if you want to do this you have to have this in place or no secret service would be with her at this point or oh really yes so you want that authenticity you have to have it oh yeah and what's your reaction from Washington people to the show pretty positive yeah they all think it's about the other person really really yeah I knew that guy i know who that's based exactly which makes me happy that's good yeah and when you how were you brought into it originally like armando iannucci did the uh what was it called the loop in the what was yeah he did well he did a series called the thick

of it in the uk which is uh incredibly fabulous series i had hadn't seen that but i had seen in the loop yeah me too right this my my agent told me it was being developed at um at hbo this unhappy vice president i was like oh yeah i gotta get on that action yeah yeah i mean you hear a female unhappy vice president what more do you need to know yeah i mean that sounds like very ripe yeah from comedy but it was hilarious right from the get-go yeah it's fun i you know i don't know like i i think that you've done a an amazing thing in that um a lot of people don't really survive a hit sitcom career-wise you know in the sense that you're so identified. Yeah, it's tricky. Right? Yeah, it's tricky. And were you conscious of that?

Yeah, but I didn't dwell on it. Uh-huh. Because New Adventures was great, and the movie stuff, and I liked it. Yeah. I don't know how to read your look. I don't know if that was okay.

No, no, no, no, no, no. It was good. No, no, no. I actually have a lot of love for that show. No kidding. I really do. And, oh, you were in deconstructing harry oh yeah yeah was that not a good experience well it was yeah no it was it it was funny it was

here's the thing years and years ago uh i was in i i had was, this was back when I was on SNL, so it had to have been like 84 right? And Woody was making Hannah and Her Sisters You were in that, yeah. I don't remember You don't remember it because I was like, I was actually quite literally an extra, except an extra

with one line, you know what I mean? Where was it? At a party? No, it was at the beginning of the movie when he was running some comedy show was it at a party or no it was at the beginning of the movie when he was running some comedy show and i was a pa or something walking alongside him and i'm i look like madonna it was like an snl style show right and they were dealing with the belushi character a character who was on drugs and they were coming into this back room it's like he's all fucked up again or something like that something like that yeah yeah Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. But anyway, so I was, and so I got cast. Juliet Taylor was the casting director

and I got cast in this. I was so excited. You know, I mean, I was- You're like, what, 24, 25? No, not even. I was 20. I was probably 22.

Okay. So I get cast, go, tiny little part. I was so terrified to be in this scene with him. Let's see, I'm gonna make this as short as possible. take your time i have time so we have this scene in which he's he thinks he's got a brain tumor right and so in the scene he as as the actor says wait a minute stop does anybody

hear that yeah because he's hearing a noise the ringing yeah and so but you know remember he's also directing the movie right okay and i was in this scene yeah and i was supposed to cross behind him or in front of him i can't remember which as he's saying that line right so we're rolling camera he goes wait a minute stop And I stopped because I thought he was talking to me to stop. But it was the line in the scene. Okay. Keep in mind, I'm like a low kid. Okay.

Low on the totem pole. Right. Right. So I got, oh my God, I'm so sorry. I'm so, you know, and so, so then we do it again. And if we do, and so roll camera. Okay. Action.

Go. La la la. Does anybody hear this? Wait a minute. I do it again. And so roll, camera, okay, action, go. La, la, la. Does anybody hear this? Wait a minute. I hear it ringing. Stop. And I did it again. You did it again?

I did it twice. What did you say? I was like, oh, my God. Oh, I can't believe I just did it again. I was overcome with nerves, right? Right. And so then he made a joke at my expense, you know, like, I can't remember what it was except

that i was incredibly humiliated and tried to act as if i wasn't right okay so that was that experience yeah suffice it to say did not go particularly well right so years later yeah uh i get a call that he's doing this movie he would love me to be in it and and i think i even talked to him and he said i'm going to send you the pages you know really if you want to do it great and we'd love to have it oh my god i'm so excited this is this is now you know uh middle of doing seinfeld or even towards the end and um and so i remember i was with my husband brad and the pages came in and he said would you think you're going to do it and And I said, what do you mean

do I think I'm going to do it? Of course, it's a Woody Allen movie. Yeah. I mean, you know, unless he's got me blowing him or something,

of course I'm going to do it. Right. And half the scene was a blowjob scene. Yeah, right. Right. And so, anyway,

I did it anyway. It was funny. I didn't think it was that funny. What, the scene or the movie? The movie's funny, but the scene wasn't that funny. And the other thing is, is that...

Why? I mean, because I, you know, like it was uncomfortable. It was weird, but the way it was loaded up that, you know, you were the sister. I thought it was too much. I don't know. For me, anyway. For your taste? Yeah.

The blowjob? I can't watch it. I can't watch it. And the other thing is we had to reshoot it so and by the way i got i in fact was just barely pregnant at the time so when i came back to reshoot it seven months later i was a house so they had to find the same wardrobe in an extra large and like shoot me you know neck, if you were pregnant, it would have been a much darker joke, wouldn't it? Possibly funnier. I think that's probably true.

Yeah. So I talked to a lot of SNL people here. Yeah. But where did you grow up? I was born in New York and then I moved to Washington when I was like eight. Really? Yeah. Was your mom in politics?

No. and then I moved to Washington when I was like eight. Really? Yeah. Was your mom in politics? No. I lived with my mom and my stepfather. My stepfather was a doctor and was working. He worked at GW.

He was the dean of the med school there and stuff like that. That's good school, right? Oh, yeah. So what kind of doctor was he? He was originally a thoracic surgeon. Oh, really? Uh-huh. I grew up with a doctor as a father. It's good when you don't feel well. What kind of doctor was he? He was originally a thoracic surgeon. Oh, really? Uh-huh. I grew up with a doctor as a father.

It's good when you don't feel well. What kind of doctor was he? Orthopedic surgeon. Oh. Yeah, he's a, you know, saws and drills and stuff. Of course. Yeah. But it was always-

Where, in New York? I grew up in New Mexico. He's from Jersey, though. He's Jersey people. Uh-huh. This is fascinating. You grew up in New Mexico. I did.

How is it you have this accent that you have? Do I have an accent? I feel as if it's a New York accent. Well, people think it's Jersey. Maybe Jersey's still left in there somewhere. Both my parents are from Jersey. Oh, that's what it is. You picked up their voice. Probably. I don't think there's a New Mexico accent. If there is one, we haven't heard it yet. Okay. Well, let me know if you do, and I'll try to hold on to that.

All of a sudden, you start talking in a twang. Yeah. I don't know if it's weird because it's not really Texas, not the South. I don't know if there's an accent there. So where was your regular dad? In New York. Yeah? Yes.

Did you have a back and forth kind of thing? I did a back and forth thing. Oh, was that good, bad? What do you think? Terrible. Yeah, not easy. I'm the only child in my parents' marriage, so I have two sisters on my mother's side and two sisters on my father's side.

Oh, half sisters. Correct. Wow. That's like a lot. Do you have relationships with all of them? Oh, yeah, very much so. Yeah. It's nice, actually.

I like having all those sisters. That's very nice. But the going back and forth between families, not ideal. Yeah, I didn't. My parents got divorced when I was in my 30s and it wasn't as tricky. Did you see that coming? Yes, of course you did.

I mean, you know, I don't know. When you were in your 30s, that's unbelievable. How long had they been married? Well, they had been married like as long, shortly after, you know, not much longer I'm the oldest and they had me a couple years in so just over that Yeah, no, it was a big explosion of emotions and weirdness and you know, I guess I saw it coming It's hard to you don't have as much invested in it, but it wasn't surprising necessarily

Yeah, once once everything became revealed it was like holy shit, I didn't even know these people. Wow. Did you ever have that experience with your parents? Like, what are you? Oh, yeah. Like recently, it sounds like. Last week. So growing up, what were you doing?

I was just a girl going to school. I always wanted to act. I mean, I don't know how you felt, but I always felt like I really wanted to do it. Kids want to do something. That's one of the things. That was the only thing that was interesting to me. Do you know why it was interesting to you? Did you like movie stars? Were there certain people that you were like, oh, I want to do that? I wanted to grow up. Like movie stars, were there certain people that you were like, oh, I want to do that? I wanted to grow up. Uh-huh. I was eager to grow up.

Were you like ahead of your growing up thing? Were you one of those kids who was sort of like already acting grown up? I tried to act grown up. Yeah, how'd that go? Well, when I was very little, I remember noticing that when you got your big teeth in, they hang down lower than your lip. Yeah. And I was desperate to get my big teeth. And I vividly remember very frequently walking down the streets of New York with my mom,

lifting up my lip like this, and thinking I was fooling people to thinking that I had my big teeth. People were just like, what's wrong with that kid? Right. But in my mind, they were thinking, oh, that kid's got her big teeth. She's getting old. I swear to you, I was dying to grow up.

Did your mom say stop it? She didn't notice. This was something I did in my own little head. And it's also New York, and it's also hip and cool, and you're probably going to swanky places. I don't know if they were swanky. Right. But all New York felt swanky then, because we're about the same age.

And New York, when I was like 13 or 14, when it was just starting to get cool again, it was so exciting to be there. I love it. I really love it. I mean, when I was really little living there, I don't know how swanky it was, but it was, you know. It was kind of gnarly in the 70s, right? Yeah. Yeah, but I was born in 61.

So I was, you know, I guess I shouldn't, who gives a fuck? Anyway, whatever. And so, you know, I was in the city and we had the blackout. And I love riding buses. I just love it. Do you still love it? I do actually love getting on a public bus. But New York, do you love New York still?

Yeah. I wish it wasn't so expensive and- I don't know who lives there now. Crowded, very rich people. It's weird, man. You just need so much money. But also the whole flavor of the city. It's not what man. You just need so much money. But also like the whole flavor of the city. It's like not what it used to be.

Like I lived on the Lower East Side for a couple years, around 3rd and 16th for a couple years, and it was in the mid-80s even. And now you go to the Lower East Side, it's like there's no grit or menace or sense that all kinds of people live in New York anymore. It feels like a vacation like like europeans are using it as a vacation island i because i think it is yeah so what about

central park can we even talk about that what happened it's glorious it's oh it's good and when we well i mean you could not cross Central Park past what? Three o'clock in the afternoon. You would get hurt. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't know who was hiding. Yeah. Because there were people hiding.

Really functions as a reprieve now. I read a book about Central Park once and the whole idea of it, and it kind of changed my life. Really? Yeah. In what sense? Well, you had these new cities. When New York was growing, there was this idea that a lot of people were moving from the country, so they had to bring some element of that to balance the city.

So it was actually built for a purpose to have that sort of pastoral reprieve that functioned in light of city life. Let me tell you something. That's so goddamn genius, and I wish they'd done it here. Right. In Los Angeles. It's a genius. The Japanese call it forest bathing. Oh, they do? And it's important. It's really important. It is important for the emotional mental health. Yeah. I agree with you. So what happens? So you graduate college? No, because I got, I mean, I went to Northwestern. You got your teeth.

My big teeth came in. Yeah. See? Yeah. My big teeth came in, and then I went to Northwestern. Yeah. And then I got hired to do Saturday Night Live after my junior year in college. So I came to New York.

So I didn't, in fact, actually graduate. But I very happily got an honorary degree later. They gave it to you? Oh, they gave it to me. And I fucking framed that thing. And it's up. Yeah, you deserved it. You did enough work.

I don't know if I deserved it. But let's just say I framed it. What was it an honorary degree in? I don't can't remember. I'm not that smart. You OK in the chair? What's going on? I'm trying to get remember. I'm not that smart. You okay in the chair? What's going on? I'm trying to get comfortable.

I'm sorry. This cushion is driving me nuts. Would you want to take it off? No, it's fine. This is the first time that's happened in 700 episodes. We'll see. That people just. That's part of the celebration.

You're going to fidget angrily. Yeah, exactly. Now I'm going to, I'll get a new chair. You might want to think about it. Okay, I will. You know who didn'tget angrily. Yeah, exactly. Now I'll get a new chair. You might want to think about it. Okay, I will. You know who didn't complain? The president. Yeah, that's what I wanted to ask you when he came. The president didn't complain about the chair.

He has better manners than I. Uh-huh. When he came, they had to shut down this whole goddamn neighborhood. Yeah, well, yeah. Yeah, well, they had a clear of cars. You know, no one could park around here for were your neighbors pissed no yeah everyone was excited the one neighbors that were uncomfortable they were like we're getting out of here oh really i thought they they thought

it was going to be you know a drone target yeah i don't i don't know what to you know what was going to happen but um but no we asked him if we could put snipers up there and you know and he was good and it was all yeah it was a very exciting day that I talk about a lot. I think people are now listening to my podcast thinking, like, how long before he mentions the president? Well, just cut this out then. Do you edit these things? Sure. All right.

But we're not going to edit the chair business. That stays. Make me look like an asshole. No, I like you. All right, so wait. So you just, how does snl see you what are you doing are you doing are you doing a show i was doing a state yes what did you go to school for theater okay and so uh and i and but while i was there i also did work outside of of school and i did Second City for a while, and I also... Were you in the cast?

I was in the touring company. You were in the touring company? Yeah. For what, a summer? During my junior year, actually. I did that while I was going to school. On weekends? There must have been...

Uh-oh. Is a drone coming? No, but that looked like a big helicopter, like a president helicopter. Is he in town today? Maybe he's coming back over. Did you tell him you were going to be here? What day is it? It's Tuesday.

He might be in town. Really? Yeah, because he's coming to town this week because I know there's a fundraiser. Huh. Because that wasn't a police helicopter. That was a big helicopter. Wouldn't it be amazing if he just walked in here right now? It would be hilarious.

Oh, my God. It would be the best podcast. It God. It would be the best podcast. It would. It would be amazing. I just want you guys to talk. Have you met him? Of course. Does he watch Veep?

I think he does a little bit. Or he sees pieces of it. Where did you meet him? At a house? I've met him a couple of times. I met him at the White House. I met him at a fundraiser before he was even the nominee. It was back in 2000.

When he was a senator? Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. And what did you feel then? Did you feel like, oh, this guy. This guy's cool. Yeah.

Yeah. Right? And by the way, he's like, he's my age. So this. A contemporary. Wild, right? Right? Yeah.

Like the president's just this guy. He's a couple years older than me. He went to college down the street. I know it. Yeah. He talked to you. He's like, I can't believe I'm back in this neighborhood. Yeah. It's a great neighborhood. Yeah. I like it. So, all right. So the touring company, who was in the touring company with you? I can't remember, but we did the, I did the touring company, but you know, for a little, for a while. And, but more importantly, I was in this, uh, uh with i was with this other company called the practical theater company that was started by some college buddies of mine

including my uh now husband then you knew him that long yeah uh brad hall and it was called practical theater company and we had this big hit show in chicago and it was i mean and it really was a big hit what was it it was called the practical theater company's golden 50th anniversary jubilee and um which is a big show yeah and so um we'd gotten rave reviews and all these people were coming to see it blah blah blah and this is over the summer and unbeknownst to us one night there were producers of snl were in the audience watching the show good it's lucky you didn't know yeah I know and so and they came backstage and they offered us jobs on the show who you and Brad me and Brad and Gary Kroger and Paul Baras

they offered him a job as a writer on the show Gary Gary Kroger, what happened to that guy? He's in Iowa now and he does, he's actually running for Congress. Oh, really? Yes. Yeah. And, For the good team?

Yeah. Okay. So you didn't finish school and you told them like, I got to go be on SNL and were you a fan of SNL at that point? Did you like?

You know, I wasn't really, at that moment, I wasn't really watching it. But I had been because, you know, when SNL started, I was in junior high and high school when it actually began. Right, like in the 70s, yeah. And so. It was great.

It was like, it was the show for my generation. Yeah, and you had to stay up to watch it. Stay home. Or put in a tape to VCR it, to tape it. If you could figure that out out but you couldn't so you stayed up and anyway you were you were 15 so staying up till one o'clock in the morning was like who cares and your parents would let you i remember i had to watch it where in my parents door was shut and i couldn't turn it up too loud so i wouldn't wake them up yeah and watch snl oh

god it was unbelievable right and they spoke to us and it was so irreverent it was great there's nothing like it on television don't you think yeah just chevy and john you'd lock into your people like you know who was you right who'd you like i like jane yeah she was great she was amazing so funny yeah and gilda and gilda yeah yeah he was a little later but great but great oh great. Oh my God, so funny. It was an amazing show. Do you know Bill Murray? I do know him. I've met him a couple times. We did a play reading long ago.

How was that? Do you still get that thing when you meet these people where you're like, a fan thing? With Bill, you know, it's funny. I feel kinship with him. So in a way, like I did. Perhaps, but also just sort of when we did this reading, I'm telling you, it was years ago. Actually, it was an Arthur Miller play.

Arthur Miller was still alive. I wonder what that was. I want to say. Yes. I want to say it was called Resurrection. And Bill and Nathan Lane and I did a reading. Yeah. I think they wanted to have it read for backers or something.

Uh-huh. Anyway, it was a very exciting thing to do. Yeah. The play was not great. But Arthur Miller was there. But Arthur Miller was there. Yeah. And so we got to do that and work on it for, you know, 48 hours.

That was really fun. Uh-huh. But, I don't know, how do I go on that tangent? But anyway. We were just talking about the first SNL. So you were a fan when you were in junior high, but you hadn't know. How do I go on that tangent? But anyway. We were just talking about First SNL. So you were a fan when you were in junior high, but you hadn't been watching. Yeah, and it was a different regime running the show

because Lauren was not there. You were in that weird window. You're the only person I've talked to, I think, because I got obsessed with Lauren Michaels because I had a failed audition with him. Oh. And it was the theme of this podcast for about 600 and some odd episodes and then i got

to interview lauren like i went to his office and got closure how did that work can you explain to me the closure you could listen to it no just tell me really quick well i had you know my experience of what he did and that when i met with him like they'd come to see me at a comedy club and then they had me do a screen test in the studio, and then I met with Lorne. And I thought I blew it for very peculiar reasons, and I thought his intentions were different than what they turned out to be. Like, I was involved with alternative comedy at that time downtown. And, you know, he said, you know, the best part of the interview was really, like, I got paranoid that I took a candy, and that was part of the test. And, like I got paranoid that I took a candy and that was part of a test. And like, I was a little high.

So what he said, like there was an article on the comedy thing I was involved with in the New York Times, you know, about alternative comedy on Lower East Side. And when I got in to see Lorne, he goes, you know, I don't know what you think you're doing below 14th Street, but it doesn't mean anything. So I thought he literally brought me up there to sort of teach me some sort of lesson.

And when the whole first part of the interview with him was me trying to go beat for beat from my memory of this thing with him. Oh. And when I told him that line, he looked at me and goes, I was trying to help you. How does that help? Well, he's basically it's not show business you know like you're not you know it's not you're not going anywhere in in that in that thing you know like like it was like i thought he was just trying to like you stupid but he wasn't really and according to him you know in retrospect i'm sure he wasn't festering on it his whole life but oh my god it was pretty uh it was

pretty great to meet him yeah because like you when he realized he's just this he's okay he's rich and he's powerful and he's a show business mogul but he's still a guy that goes to work every day he's been walking that hallway for 40 years almost right it's incredible but so you got in this window who was in charge uh gentleman by the name of dick ebersole right the head of head of NBC at the time, right? Or something like that? Or he went on to become that? He's head of NBC Sports for a very long time. Right.

After that. Okay. And what was the experience? You go to New York. It was not so great. Really? Yeah, it was not so great. But how could you know what to even expect?

You were a complete newbie. You're probably the youngest person that ever... I was an income poop. complete newbie. You're probably the youngest person that ever. I was an income poop. But are you probably the youngest person that ever was on there? Oh, you were 21? Yeah. Yeah. I think that, I don't think I was the youngest.

Now I'm not the youngest. I think they got somebody younger. But whatever, it doesn't matter. I was obviously quite young. I thought it was going to be like, you know, I had stars in my eyes. And I thought it was going to be like an ensemble. We I had stars in my eyes. And I thought it was going to be like an ensemble. We'd all be working together and finding funny things to do. Yeah, yeah.

It would be that kind. It would be that. It would be like Veep, to be honest. Right. Or like Seinfeld to a certain extent. Or like a sketch show too. Yeah, it was just everybody. Yeah, everybody.

You're here to support. And it was not that at all. Yeah, everybody, you're here to support. And it was not that at all. And in addition to that, you know, I didn't come particularly prepared. I was not a stand-up. Right. I didn't have a bag of characters that I could draw upon at all.

Maybe like I had two. Right. And, you know, I was an actress. Yeah. And I don't mean the people who are on the show aren't actors and actresses, but I guess I was just, this was, I didn't have the right mindset and I was ill-prepared for this moment. Yeah. Okay?

Yeah. And highly misogynistic workplace. Yeah. And everybody's completely fucked up on drugs out of their minds okay so it's all of that and that's what was going on it was a very dog eat dog and it was just who was it who was on that seat who when you got there who what was the cast piscopo and eddie murphy and uh tim kazarinsky and mary gross and uh m Mary Gross wasn't fucked up on drugs, was she? No, no, no, no.

She wasn't. She was not. Right. But it was a bit of a mess. But I certainly learned a lot. And then the third year, I was hung on for three years. And the third year I was there, Larry David was there. And so that's how I met Larry for the very first time.

He was there as a writer or as a performer? As a writer? Yeah. Wow. Who else was writing? I mean, are there any people that you still have relationships with professionally that were there during that time other than Larry? Professionally, no.

I would say Andy Breckman is somebody that I saw him recently in New York, but it's not like we communicate all the time. Right, right. And then I've subsequently gotten to know other writers who've worked there. You know, it's funny. That place does have a kind of a, it's almost like an alumni college kind of feeling to it. So once you've been on it, even if you sucked, which I did, by the way, I think there's a sort of built in. You're so alive and cute and funny.

Yeah, anyway, take my word for it. I was not, it really was not... Have you looked at yourself on that show recently? I can't watch it. I don't watch it. I really, it's a nightmare. But you're still pretty filled with excitement and very funny.

Yeah, okay, well, thank you very much. And your teeth, big teeth, look good. Big teeth. I never told that story to anybody. I don't know what made me think of it. It's the best story I've ever heard. It's a window in to the comic mind. Yeah, I suppose, or something.

All right, so it was horrible. It was very horrible. Did you get axed or you left or did lauren come back at that point or what happened i uh after that my third year so whatever that 85 uh dick left yeah and i i mean they completely overhauled everything right and i i didn't even i i'm sure if i'd said oh please can i say they would have said no you're fired but i didn't wait around for that. You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's just a year by year contractual thing, or at least it was back then. So there you are in New York. You didn't finish college. You're an actress. You've done this seminal show. But did you get, were you recognized? I mean, did you?

Not really. I mean, I was, you know, I got a lot of experience, which is fantastic. But I was trying to find work. So then I was in New York looking for work as an actor. So was it at all a crash course in show business in terms of you saw that? Because it sounds to me, outside of being misogynistic and drug addled, that there was mostly opportunists who were trying to, you know, get in front of the camera, get enough traction to get bigger. And I mean, it seemed that that's what happened to a lot of those people.

Yeah, that's right. I learned an enormous amount. Was it heartbreaking? Yes, it was heartbreaking. It was heartbreaking. But it was ultimately, at the end of the day, incredibly, it was a monster education. It was just like you couldn't have paid enough to get that degree because that was, I mean, at the very least, I learned how to do live television. Right.

That is daunting. Sure. And it's not even that necessary a skill necessarily. No, it's not necessary at all. But it's amazingly. But it's amazing to be able to do it. And not be afraid or, you know, to handle it. To handle it.

Wow. Right. So, and I watched all sorts of, I learned a lot during this time. I really did. Probably some things I can't even express what they are. But I learned, and I learned what I didn't want to do. Which was? Become a monster? Become unhappy. I didn't want to be unhappy anymore.

I mean, it was an unhappy time and I made a mental note that if I was going to keep doing this, I had to find a way to make it be a fun job. Yeah. And then I did. And by the way, I did ever since then. Wow. Well, that's amazing that you knew you wanted to be happy. Well, I think it just didn't feel right. Yeah. No, but like, cause like so many comics, like, and I guess maybe I'm just speaking for myself. Like, like I don't think of Larry David at any point going like, I just need to make myself happy.

No, that's not his thing. But I guess, you know, I wanted to have fun. Right. I mean, what the fuck else am i doing this for in life period in life period but yeah and probably i should apply that more to my life period but specifically to working that's why you wanted to be an actress yeah yeah yeah and when that's why i was trying to get out of class so i could go rehearse the show so much more fun yeah yeah yeah sitting there and you know yeah learning reading fucking, you know, Ode on a Grecian Urn

or whatever the hell it's called. That one stuck as the example of like, this is not what I want to do. Truth is beauty. Beauty is truth. That's what it says at the end. Okay. That was enough?

That's all I need to know. You get it. I get it. All right. I got to go. We've got to go. Yeah. We've got tech rehearsal. Oh, my God.

So when you were there, though, it must have been exciting to work with some of the hosts. Totally. Stevie Wonder came through. McGovern. Yeah, George McGovern. George McGovern. Yeah, that was so cool. What was he doing then?

He wasn't running. There was labor. He was trying to identify his brand. I don't know what he was doing. He just showed up, huh? He hosted. I wonder what he was doing then. I don't know.

Someone's going to know. So Stevie Wonder, George McGovern. Tina Turner. Tina Turner. So you liked watching the musical guests? Some of them, yeah. But was Stevie the host host? I feel like Stevie was the host host. I think you liked watching the musical guests. Some of them, yeah. But was Stevie the host host? I feel like Stevie was the host host. I think he was. I think you're right.

Jerry Lewis. Ooh, how was that? Crazy. Yeah. But you were sort of like, oh my God, that's him. Yeah. But Stevie, I remember as being, he stood out to me as being one of the greatest guys ever.

Yeah. Him and McGovern, to be honest. Really? Yeah. Well, actually, speaking of happiness, they both had it. Yeah. Peace of mind. Peace of mind and a kind of earnest authenticity that I really dug.

Right. Yeah. Not desperate and weird and overcompensating. Yeah, I mean, we all have our shit, but they, but, you know, I felt as if there was an innate kindness in both of them that I just loved. And then, and then beyond that, a lot of something there to back it up. Right, right. Like their lives meant something.

Of course. Yeah, yeah. Completely. And they were doing great things with themselves. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So how do you make the transition? Do you, so you're back in new york you

stay in new york at that time did you have a place there yeah and you just stayed in your apartment yeah i had a place there god i wish i'd hung on to that right oh where was it on the upper west side 85th and west end like a like a one bedroom or two bedroom two bedroom like you were just bedroom two bath and you're just renting it for like 300 a month or something? Yeah, I can't even remember. Can you imagine? I mean, that thing's got to be worth millions now. Anyway, whatever.

So yeah, so I was living there for about a year. And then I went and I was not getting any work. In New York. Right. And so I went to LA for so-called pilot season. Right. And lived at the Oakwood Apartments on Barham. Oh, yeah.

Right, where everybody lives when that happens. And I got a pilot, but then it didn't get picked up. So I made that money. So that was great. What was it? It was called The Art of Being Nick. It was a spinoff from Family Ties. Mm-hmm. But it didn't get picked up. But at least you knew you had the goods.

Yeah, that was the- You got cast. It's not easy. I got cast. Yeah. Yes, that was good to get that job. So you're out here in Oakwood Apartments, your sad furnished apartment with the pool and weirdos.

Yeah, right. Actually, I live there with Mary Gross. What's she doing? She's living in Santa Monica. Okay. okay i'm doing her thing okay she's great yeah i always liked her she's wonderful and so then eventually and then we and then it became quite i think i came back to new york couldn't get i couldn't get more work it was just i could not get work were you working otherwise did you do other shit did you do other jobs or you're just all show business i was all showbiz yeah

i'd save my money yeah yeah from snl and sure yeah i mean you know i'm 21 years old and you're making yeah i mean just stash it what am i going to spend it on and how are your parents reacting to your life choices uh i never asked them i, they seemed to be supportive. Were they detached? I think they were a little bit shocked. They must have been, right? Well, I imagine when you drop out of school to do a TV show,

there was excitement mixed with fear. Probably, but I never asked them about any of it. I didn't even tell them. I didn't say, do you think I should do this? I was like, I'm doing this. And I'm going actually next week. I'm moving to New York. Well, did they have any control over you anyways?

Or were you just sort of like? None. So, I mean, I was doing that. Right. You know? Right. It's wild. Yeah.

Now that I'm a parent of a child that age, you know, it's bizarre. Do you think back at what a nightmare you must have been? Or do you not see that? I don't think I was a nightmare. Right. You were a good kid? I was relatively good. Right.

I mean, I was a little bit badly behaved, but they didn't know about that. Right. You know. Yeah. But I was a good, I actually was a good kid. Right. You seem like it. You don't seem like you destroyed yourself in any way.

No, I didn't. And put yourself back together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just decided on show business right yeah exactly now were you dating brad all the way through this time from i was dating him from you know my junior of college on yeah and that was the guy that was the guy yeah and when did you get married uh 87 oh so. So it's been a long time. Yeah.

Wow, right? Congratulations. Thanks a million. You did it. I did it. Then I moved to California and I did a series here for two years. Which one? It was called Day by Day.

Oh, I didn't see it. Yeah, it's fine. Was it good? No, I don't think so. 1988. And so anyway- But like you're working. Was it good? No, I don't think so. 1988. And so anyway. But like you're working. So that must have been great though.

That was great. And it was all at NBC. So that was all good. Because then I was sort of starting to sort of, they knew me at NBC. Yeah. Okay. You were a funny chick. Yeah, funny-ish.

Okay. But I actually was funny in this show. Yeah. And it's probably because I was better suited to play a part as opposed to three, try to come up with a bunch of different characters. Right, right. And then I got actually, you know what? I got an overall deal. I got an overall deal.

At NBC? No, at Warner Brothers Television. Okay. And so I developed a script there. And this is right after Day by Day. And it was a script for me to start in. Then the script came in, and they paid me money, Warner Brothers, to do this. The script came in, and it was not what I had envisioned, and it didn't seem fixable to me. Right.

And so I said, I don't want to do it. I can't do it and and i had a window there was legally there was a window in which i could pull out of this thing yeah and then about three days later or even maybe not maybe like two days later these four seinfeld chronicles scripts come to me okay from and from larry and i read them and he sent them to you larry did he remembered you and you guys were you maintaining a friendship or no but he just sent it right and so he sent them to me and in two of the four scripts i didn't really my character didn't really have very much to do right and the other two more so yeah but this was definitely a supporting role and the

other show was like a starring role right right but i thought oh this writing is so great i mean i was able to recognize was all larry i mean i don't know what the writing credit is on that actually it's a good question yeah i don't know but i mean it's definitely maybe larry and jerry larry and jerry yeah definitely but certainly Larry's voice is present as a writer whom I had known

third year at SNL and it was the same kind of tone did you guys have a relationship at SNL yes yes we were friends yeah

we bonded over unhappiness oh yeah really truly and so and so I read this oh my god

this sounds really good and so anyway I read this. Oh, my God. This sounds really good. And so anyway, I got this. I went in. I hung out with Jer. Blah, blah, blah. And that happened. But let me tell you something. What happened?

Warner Brothers threatened to sue me because they thought I had done something illegal or unethical. By just meeting with them? No. I thought I had done something illegal or unethical. By just meeting with them? No, they were suspicious of the fact that I pulled out of my deal with them and then so quickly on the heels of that became involved with this gig.

And I was terrified. You know, this was just, you know, I was like nothing. I was not, I was a little person. Yeah, and this was a huge studio and they were threatening and they said they wanted their money back and uh and it was a lot of money i mean it was a lot it was seven i'm gonna tell you right now 75 grand yeah that's a lot of money particularly back then it was a huge yeah and i but and i thought well but I didn't do anything wrong. I didn't break our contract.

And I got advice from one of my attorneys who said, you got to just give it back. I'm like, but if I do that, it doesn't imply that I've done something. Right. You got a sense of justice. Yeah, because I didn't do anything wrong, right? Yeah. And I called Gary David Goldbergberg who's a creator of family ties in spin city and he's subsequently passed away but he was a mentor of mine and a very good friend

and i told him this you knew him from day by day i did yeah actually i knew him from before that because i'd done this spinoff of family time oh right right right and i told him that warner bradley's was threatening to sue and what should i do? And I was so scared and I'm being told by lawyers to give the money back. And he said, you know what? I don't respond well to bullying. Keep the money. And so I took his advice. Right.

And I never heard from Warner Brothers. Nothing. Is that wild? That was so scary. It's touching in a way it's touching because i love gary goldberg yeah he's such a good man oh my god if you had met him he would have died so that's all they because they obviously didn't have any legal grounds they had no legal grounds and they were just being dicks they were being dicks and i called their bluff what a great thing yeah it was a great thing actually it was a good

lesson uh-huh you know i don't respond to bullying yeah that's what it's hard to know that's what's happening when when i didn't even think of it as such and also when you're looking for an opportunity you want your career to start at the beginning of your career kind of and you want to work and they're just totally they're just trying to teach you a lesson and crush your spirit for what just so what you're going to go back they you you're out of the deal and they didn't even have you they wanted you back or they just wanted to teach you a lesson who knows that's great good for you ironically i went back and worked for them years later isn't that so funny in what years in christine oh that was one of those television same not the same no not the same regime. They were gone.

Those executives. Bye-bye. Yeah. All right, so there you are. You're looking at these first four Seinfeld scripts, and it's a smallish part, but you love Larry, and you like Jerry. Yes, and I didn't know stand-up and people in stand-up, and I got together and met with these guys, and I sort of recognized Jerry,

and I remember he was actually eating cereal and we read the scene together and it felt good and it felt very um alternative yeah as you say like a new thing well yes yeah because it was like guys that were sort of my age-ish and they think this is funny and it was not like your standard networky situation under any circumstances yeah it wasn't joke to joke shallow characters necessarily it was interesting it wasn't yeah set up punchline set up punch it was a little different and it was exciting well yeah it was fun and and we made these four episodes. And I remember thinking, oh, this show's too smart. And they're too stupid, they being the network, to pick this up.

But then they did. I mean, they had made a pilot. I wasn't in it. Then they said, add a girl and we'll give you a four order. And then we made the four. And then they gave us a 13-episode order after that. Right. So it was our third season that we got our first full order.

And your character was based on Leifer, kind of. Ish. I'm not sure it really was, but maybe a little bit. And was she on staff at the beginning? No. I don't think Carol was there in the very beginning. Right. Right.

Is there, like, weirdness? Was there weirdness around it? Oh, God, no. Oh, good. Oh, no, no, no, no. Not at all. She's pretty great. Oh, yeah. She's great. No, no,? Oh, God, no. Oh, good. Oh, no, no, no, no. Not at all. She's pretty great. Oh, yeah.

She's great. No, no. There's no weirdness whatsoever. Oh, good. Yeah. So none of you had any idea that it would change the history of entertainment, though, obviously. No.

Didn't know that. And you didn't think it was even going to last, necessarily. Right. And it did struggle after the first year, right? It struggled for a couple years. Yeah. It struggled. Yeah.

Because we had sort of a crappy time slot. struggle after the first year right it struggled for a couple years yeah it struggled yeah and we had sort of a crappy time slot we were being i'm pretty sure it was jake and the fat man was beating us and then home improvement i don't even i don't even remember what jake and the fat man is anymore i don't either is it a sitcom i think it was a sitcom or it's like a sort of a wry hour show. I don't really know. Yeah. Anyway, it's a long time ago. Is it? It is, right?

Doesn't it feel like it to you? I don't know. Were you here? No, I was sweating and probably in New York somewhere. I wasn't here. I felt like I missed everything. I've watched Seinfeld, obviously, but I don't know every episode. I don't either.

It's out of my head. Right? No, come on. I know, because when you do a show, when you actually are shooting a show, like when you're done shooting, it's like, all right, enough. You know? Yeah. It just goes away kind of, doesn't it? Oh, I have to clear it.

I mean, it's like, what's that called when you clear in a computer? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Erase the hard drive or whatever. that's what I have to do.

Right. You do, you intentionally do it or it doesn't just happen? It just happens. Right. It's the weirdest thing. Like,

I just got done shooting season four of the little show that I do and I'm like, did that even happen? Like, because the work is so intense.

It's like you're talking about with Veep, like you're exhausted and then you go into like a post-traumatic stress almost and you do all the press for it and then like, happen, because the work is so intense. It's like you're talking about with Veep. You're exhausted. And then you go into a post-traumatic stress almost, and you do all the press for it. And then by the time it's on, you're like, I can't fucking watch it. Let me know how it is. Yeah.

But you watch it, don't you? I mean- Eventually. Do you edit your show and stuff? Yeah. So you see it in all those different manifestations, and you see the director's cut, and you're like, oh, we're in trouble. And then you're like, wait, wait, wait, we are going to edit it. And you're like, oh, that's a little better.

Oh, I know. All right. So wait, after Seinfeld, was there panic? Like career wise? Because one of the amazing things that I stated at the beginning is that you've had a beautiful show business career and you've brought humor and your skill set to everything you do, and you weren't really burdened, seemingly to me, one way or somehow or another. By the time you did New Adventures of Old Christine, I didn't watch it and go, nah, it's not Seinfeld, or that's the girl from Seinfeld, or any of that shit. I mean, you're your own thing.

But I've always felt that about you. I don't know if you think that about you. I don't know how I think about that. Knowing how TV worked and knowing what you'd been through, and even though you had done all right for yourself and stashed some cash, were you concerned about your career? No, I wasn't. Because I also had two babies during this time when I was on Seinfeld.

this time yeah when i was on seinfeld so i was you know those fish who can who whose eyes operate independently yeah i was that right i had one eye over there and my other eye was there kids show business right and then seinfeld ended and both eyes went over into one direction yeah which was good which was great how old were old were they when the show ended? Five and one. Oh, okay. Just thereabouts. So you were able to focus. Yeah.

And it was because it was very challenging to, do you have kids? No. Challenging to balance the. Sure. Having those boys and going to work. And you did, did you not necessarily want to be one of those people that just hired somebody to manage your children forever? No, that's not in my makeup. But, I mean, by the way, I don't disparage people who do that.

And I also have a woman still who I work with to this day who is on board who helped us in our house. Sure. Most kind and giving person. But you wanted to have a relationship with your children. I was having children, not just to like have them and look at them from afar. Right. To like to engage with them. Right.

Did you grow up with that? Grow up with what? Engaged parents. Yes, I did. That's nice. Yes. Very engaged. So I had another focus.

Right. And so show business was secondary in a way. Yeah. I mean, it was very, I don't mean to say it's not important to me, but it was definitely not the most important. Right. And when did, so now do you find that, because you did other stuff. I did. you did other stuff i did i did i did a series for nbc a couple years later called watching ellie which was really good and got canceled after two seasons which was heartbreaking but i think it was

but it was a it was a foray into my new sort of kind of life as a producer and and being in a show and producing it and getting into you know is that something you were guided into or you decided to do no i just it just felt correct you know you knew you could do that you had enough juice and you had yeah yeah yeah yeah totally and you enjoyed it producing i do yeah yeah i can't imagine not doing it right yeah that you anything you do now you have to have that position i think so so, yeah. So you have some control. I have some control, and I bring experience that is useful to the product. Have you thought about producing other shit?

Yes. I'm developing a couple things right now. Yeah? Yeah. I'm developing a limited series at HBO based on a book written by Helen Thorpe called Soldier Girls, which is about three generations of women from Indiana who were in the National Guard and then got deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq. Wow.

That's documentary or fictionalized? It will be fictionalized. And then the other thing is that I'm developing at Fox Searchlight this movie called Force Majeure. It's a film that came out a couple years ago, a Swedish film. Oh, okay. And so we're developing that over there. So those are my two projects right now. That's exciting.

Yeah. We'll see. What are you eating, Tums? No, nicotine lozenges. Oh. How long have you not smoked? Over a decade. How often do you eat those?

A lot. You and Matt Walsh. Does he do it too? Yeah, except he's trying to get off of it. Is he on the gum or the lozenges? He was on the gum. Then he tried to get off of it. When we were last working together very recently, he was into lollipops.

I don't know where he stands today but yeah just he's got a bag of lollipops it's a tough one to kick the nicotine yeah it feels good well then don't kick it yeah that's that's where i'm at it's been 10 years on these dumb things that is it bad for you do you think i probably somehow but not as bad as smoking and i don't think it's that bad so who cares exactly all right so good we're almost like. Almost through this bullshit. No, no, it's not. I'm being just a little, I'm projecting that you want to be done with it.

No, no, no, no, no. It's fine. Did a lot of voiceover work. You did Arrested Development, a few episodes of that. That's fun, right? Yeah, that was really fun. Is that where you met Tony?

Tony? Well, here's the thing. Both of us have no memory of meeting each other and in fact we were asked in an interview once did we ever work together and we said

well we were on the same show but we never worked together and then like two years later somebody sends a still and we actually had a scene together and neither of us remembered

so talk about erasing a hard drive he's a very unique comic thing oh I'll say he's somebody you should have in here i'd like

to yeah you should is he a good talker yeah totally he's really interesting and he's a very nice man he seems interesting yeah what you like when you work with somebody like that because he seems very in it at all times and very like there's like i don't know what how what's his acting style i mean how does he prepare? What is it about him? I mean, I know it's a big question. I don't know, I don't know. I don't know how to answer it. But you do so many scenes with him,

and he's so specifically, you know, like your shadow. I think we feel very much like dance partners. Oh, yeah? Yeah, very in sync with one another. Was that right away, or did that evolve? Almost right away. I could tell right away that was going to work. Uh-huh.

I knew it, yeah. It's a great character, that guy. Incredible, right? Yes. Somebody, a friend of mine who was an actor, likened it to a vine that's growing on a trellis. The relationship? Yeah. That's very good.

Yeah. And you did that sketch for amy show schumer yeah and you're supportive of young funny ladies do you find in general i do i find if i'm supportive yes i am supportive i love funny ladies right there needs to be more yeah i love funny women who uh like outside have you seen maria bamford do you know her no you should know her oh okay yeah what is she an actress or a stand-up she's a stand-up but she's like a unique kind of savant like stand-up she just did a show of her own with mitchell hervitz who that yeah oh excuse me i know who she is she did the show in the in her house yes yes yes yes i think she's unbelievable

right sorry i didn't know her name yeah that, yes. I think she's unbelievable. Right? Sorry, I didn't know her name. Yeah, that's her name. I think she's unbelievable. Oh, good, good, good. And do you, I guess, it's sort of a question I always wonder about. Do you socialize with Jerry and Larry? Not really.

Isn't that weird? Yeah. Does it strike you as odd? How about Jason? No, not very much. This is the saddest thing i've learned about show business over the 700 episodes is that like as a fan of things you you like party you think like no they hang out they know do you hang out with people you work with anybody not really who are

your closest friends at this point um long standing uh a guy who's a writer up in San Francisco, not a show business guy. The novelist Sam Lipsight is a very good friend of mine. I got an old, old friend of mine who actually works in politics. He worked for Clinton and Obama. He's like a hardcore political guy, Jim Loftus. My girlfriend's a painter. Oh, neat. Yeah. What does she do oils uh she does no she doesn't work in oil she does big abstracts in uh like she's she's a she's a real deal painter like she sells paintings and stuff i'm not sure what the base it's definitely not oils she works

in um water-based paints. Big canvases. Oh, that's so cool. I would love to do that. Yeah? Oh, yeah. I mean, no, not professionally. My God. But have you painted?

Not in any way that I would ever say I painted. What are your hobbies then? I don't have any either. I don't think I really, you know. It's a difficult question. I didn't mean it to be challenging. Is that a hobby? Sure.

Okay, I hike. Do you like listening to music and stuff? Can I tell you something? What, do we have to erase the whole thing? No, no. Oh. The thing about music that I am so irritated with, and you're probably, you've got all these contraptions.

No, it's not. You know, I really miss putting a thing in and then just listening to it yeah now i've got to go find spotify or yeah this or right fuck turd that i don't know what it is and then i've got to figure out how to turn it on in the house i am uh i actually have to change my life in this area because i don't listen to enough music i just buy record player i'm playing records right whatever happened to that it's back i know's back, but it's back in a retro way. I guess. Or is it really back? You can buy records. No, I know you can, but I mean, in other words, are people now

really back to listening to records? A lot of people are. I mean, I know it seems like a fashion, but it actually does sound funny. It sounds really good, records. And there's also the ritual of it that we grew up with. There's still the act of playing records. I mean, one thing that could happen, if you went and bought a record player, within a week, I'm just judging from what I know of you, you could get to a point where it's like, what the fuck am I doing with records? Yeah, I could see that happening.

I couldn't. What was I thinking? Yes. Just show me how to do Spotify. Yeah. All right, now I'll learn Spotify. Exactly. But you know, you can load up your iPod, right?

Or your phone. I've got to tell you something. I know, but I'm so proud of myself that I got your goddamn podcast on my thing. I have this thing called My Podcast, which is like TiVo for podcast. Right. Yeah. It's fantastic. Oh, good.

You know what the problem you're talking about is? No. Getting old. Eh? Yeah. Yeah. Grandma doesn't know how to work her thing. Someone show her how to work her phone.

I know it is probably getting old but i'm also and and also there's irritation that goes along with it which is also getting old i have no patience but i never have like if i can't do it pretty quickly it's not it's probably not going to get done okay you well not like comedy or that kind of stuff but things like you know like i have to i have to learn how to use this new recorder and it's like it's a nightmare like it's a nightmare like i don't even i barely know how to do what i'm doing to record this i only know how to use this new recorder and it's like it's a nightmare like it's a nightmare like i don't even i barely know how to do what i'm doing to record this i only know how to do with what i'm doing is how to record us well actually that's great that's a feather in your cap yeah i mean

you knew how to do this with the channel to turn you down in my ears yeah i can figure shit out you know i'm a smart guy but i don't have, I don't either. I don't have any patience for that kind of crap. I find it mind-numbingly dull. Yeah, yeah. It's dull, but it's also frustrating because part of you thinks, like, I should be able to do this. You know how you learn how to do shit? When you have to.

That's when you learn. Right. You can't just decide, like, I'm going to spend the day and maybe learn how to do this. You can't learn how to do something like that. You you're backed up against the wall right and you have to call somebody could you just fucking come over here and show me how to do what i need to do yeah and then they show you and you know or you have to figure it out for yourself and you're up against the wall that also right but that's harder with technological stuff right and then

if you have a certain amount of money you just hire a guy to right and they rip you off and it doesn't work right but you at least you have spotify amount of money, you just hire a guy to do it. Right. And they rip you off and it doesn't work. Right. But you at least have Spotify on your thing. So what happens now? Now everything's in the can. The show's starting. And you're going to do press. Yeah. And then-

Like this. This is considered press now. Yeah. Why do you say that? And can you believe it? It's a podcast. Podcasts are press. I know.

But it's good. Yeah, it's great. It's not- That's why I'm here. How far did you have to travel? What area do you live in? I live on the west side. It was a bit of, but actually I came from Universal. So that was easy.

So it wasn't that bad. And going home is not going to be bad. It's only 125. It's fine. I'm not complaining. Do you exercise? Yes, a lot. Yeah.

Do you? I have been a bit, working out a bit, and sometimes I run. Oh, really? I run too. Yeah, you're a runner. Yeah, a little bit. Outside and inside? Both.

Yeah? I like outside. Outside's nice. Yeah. I like hiking. This is the thing that I really adore, actually. So I think we're good. Do you feel good about it?

Sure. Do you? I do. Good. I like the show. I like you you i think we covered a lot of things you're great i just don't like i i want to i want to make sure that we didn't leave some amazing story unturned oh i'm sure we did but then i'll come back yeah you will so sure why not i like coming here it's nice to talk to you this is unusual oh yeah well this is one other thing this is um uh like you know i didn't know who you were and there's this like this lineage that you

have that tracks back to uh like uh french jews yeah which i found was very exciting so i made this assumption about you not knowing you at all that you were part of this amazing old aristocratic jewish family and that's the way you lived, and you spoke French. I had made all these assumptions about you. No, I don't speak French. I do have a French background, and it's true.

My family, in fact, my grandfather, who was a fairly mean guy, but whatever, he died at the age of 103 a couple years ago oh really rest in peace yes and he was he funded the free french air fleet in world war ii and worked for the resistance and he was a balter at gunner and all that right this is a famous french jewish family right like they did good things and they were like uh no well i don't know how good well maybe that was a good

thing what he did was a good thing during world war ii god knows right that was a cool thing that he did and it did like is that uh is there elements of your family that still operate in that business like whatever that business was whatever um i wonder if anybody's um yes distant relatives distant distant yeah in in France, yeah. Really? Yeah. And you never track them down to find? I don't see a lot of that side of my family, to tell you the truth.

Yeah, we're sort of. Estranged? I don't know if it's estranged as it's just we just sort of are not in touch. Your father's side. Correct. My dad sort of has, I think, made an effort to kind of separate out. Do you know why? That's a lot of, yes, but that's another podcast.

But do you have a relationship with him? With my dad? Yeah. Oh, yes, definitely. I'm very close to my dad, yeah. And your stepdad too? Yes. Well, that's nice.

You got two dads. I got two dads, yeah. And they both walked me down the aisle when I got married. They did. Well, that's nice. You got two dads. I got two dads. Yeah. And they both walked me down the aisle when I got married. They did? Yeah. It's nice. Are you Jew-y?

No. I'm not. Are you? I think culturally, yeah. I mean, I'm not ashamed of it. I'm okay with it. I didn't ask if you were ashamed. Well, it's just that you hit a button. I don't do as much as I should.

My brother got kind of Jew-y and it wanes in and out. And I was brought up conservative Jew. I don't go on holidays. I don't fast on Yom Kippur. But I talk a lot about Jews. And I identify with Jews. Right. Don't you?

Yes. I mean, I do and I don't. I was not raised Jewish in any way. No. My mother's not Jewish. Okay. And my father's only half Jewish. Oh, really?

Yes. His mother was Catholic and his father was Jewish. Huh. So it wasn't laid on you. It wasn't laid on me, but in a way it might as well have been because people just assume it, you know? Right. I sort of look as if I'm Jewish, and I have this Jewish last name, and stuff like that. And also, there's an aspect of it

that I think I've sort of, I am. Well, yeah, you're on Seinfeld. Yeah, I was on Seinfeld. Yeah. That's more Jew-y than most people. Yeah. Yeah, by osmosis that's exactly right all right thanks for talking thank you so much this is really fun i love her that was a perfect guest for part one of our 700th episode she's she's amazing I hope you enjoyed that and now I'm excited to

tell you that you should now go if you haven't already and download part two of our 700th episode which is my conversation with Louis CK about where Horace and Pete came from it was pretty focused

but it was pretty intense and Louis was excited to talk about it. Always go to WTFpod.com for all your WTFpod needs and know that it's powered by Squarespace. Beautiful. Go there. Sign up for the newsletter. Check out the merch.

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