WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 704 - Ali Wong

Episode Date: May 5, 2016

Ali Wong wants you to know what "leaning in" is like for a working stand-up comic who also happens to be a new mother. Marc talks with Ali about her new life as a mom and her continuing life as a road comic who is bucking conventions on the stage and in the writers' room on the show Fresh off the Boat. Their conversation features something that has never happened on WTF. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing with cannabis legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category.

legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! store and a cast creative all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fucksters what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf uh welcome thank you for joining uh as you can tell i'm still a little

sickish my voice is still a little fucked up the trip to new york that i just got back from today and i'm talking to you now this is now well this will be the day after my show on IFC Marin premieres with the first two episodes last night, I hope you liked it. It's definitely different. We're going a different direction with the same guy. Not a happy direction initially, but is it ever? Isn't that the big question? If you did miss it, I can direct you to these other places. Today, the day after the show, you can go to ifc.com.

You can go to Amazon. You can go to iTunes to pick up those episodes. We're all very proud of this season and very excited about it and very interested in how it is received. But I love it. And it was a great experience for me. So I hope you enjoy that that I don't know if you saw me on Fallon the other I guess I'm going to toot my own horn this whole fucking show because there were a couple of I would say for me lifetime highlights in very subtle ways but very

profound to me and I want to share them with you because, you know, I'm not at the top of the world, but I am experiencing some nice things and I appreciate them. And I would like to share them with you if that's okay. You know, I'm not, why do I have to, disclaimer, why am I offering you a disclaimer for relative happiness? You know, if you're going to stop listening because i'm not as much of a dick as i used to be or or i'm not as disgruntled as i used to be well then well then i i would uh i would encourage you to wait because if i know

myself these things come back around or or don't but today on the show I'm very excited to have Ali Wong. Her special, Baby Cobra, which I got to watch. It premieres tomorrow, Friday, May 6th. Was one of the best stand-up comedy specials I've seen in a long time. I met Ali years ago. She featured for me or opened for me. I can't remember. I talked to her about it up in San Francisco. And I knew she was like

a force she's very specifically focused she's got uh she just has endurance she'll fucking deliver her shit she's raw she's smart she's got fucking guts and uh and her jokes are good and it's provocative and i just i need you to watch this special because i fucking loved it it's got a surprise ending in a way and and it's just it's just great it's just it's just fucking raw beautiful comedy you don't see this kind of shit that often personal raw dirty smart fucking comedy and she delivers it i when when she sent me the link to her special i'm like oh my god what is because i know i like her i know i like her style and i know i like what i've seen but like i watched a special i'm like oh fuck yes she's out there seven months pregnant doesn't even

really mention it for two-thirds of the special it was just fucking can i say this about a woman it was ballsy man it is a ballsy comedy special. And I loved having her. And there was a surprise during the interview, something that I've never experienced and I don't think has ever happened in this garage. So look forward to that. So New York City, folks.

New York City. It was raining and shitty the whole time we were there. We're both getting sicker, right? You know, I'm doing a little press here a little press there right and then i go uh i could here's the here's the funny thing lynn manuel the uh the creator and writer and star of hamilton i had heard was a big fan of wtf and i'd never met him before and the plan was I was going to go see Hamilton uh and then interview him and and we didn't have time to do the interview because the following day he got all these Tony nominations and I had you know I had a big press day and I had uh Jimmy Fallon show

but here's the beauty all right Hamilton is great uh and I'm obviously not the first guy to say that but it's great for reasons that I you know that are new to me because i don't go to musicals that often and i saw two and i enjoyed both of them and you know after the first act there was part of me and both of them like how much more could there be and then the second act it's like oh it all comes together and it's fucking amazing but the thing about hamilton is that not only is it a unique history lesson about a sort of, you know, sidelined historical figure among the founders, but it's done in a way that that is risky and it's provocative and it's human. But the way it's framed, the entire thing becomes an immigrant story. It becomes the story of the founding of America. And it's an America of the founding of america and it's an america for all types of

people and it's a uniquely you new york show because it takes place in new york and it's got a new york flavor both current and from the 1700s and it's designed so anybody can play these roles because america is for everybody uh lynn manuel miranda the guy who created it played alexander hamilton aaron burr was wesley odom jr great george washington played by christopher everybody uh Lin-Manuel Miranda the guy who created it played Alexander Hamilton Aaron Burr was Leslie Odom Jr. great George Washington played by Christopher Jackson great King George I believe was Rory O'Malley uh he was great I'm not sure if this is the most current cast because I'd heard that maybe there's two guys that played that I hope not Eliza Hamilton was great Angelica Shuler and David Diggs,

who played Lafayette and Thomas Jefferson, was amazing. Amazing. Yeah, it was everything that they say it is. You know, it is a musical. So, I mean, don't go expecting, you know, to leave and your cancer is cured. I mean, it's a musical and it's a great musical

and I don't see a lot of musicals. It reminded me of Jesus Christ Superstar. You know, it had a darkness to it that was elevated, and everything is like, you know, the resolution is like, you know, the beginning of America. So anyways, I was happy to have seen it, but here's what happens, okay? So at intermission, the house manager comes up to me

and says, Lynn wants you to come backstage and say hi. Just meet me over there at that door. And I'm like, of course. So the play ends. It's a standing ovation. It's beautiful. Standing ovations are beautiful when you get them and when you're part of them. The cast is taking their bows.

And there's a lot of people up there. There's about 30 people. They do a curtain call and they all bow. And then they start to walk off stage. And I'm watching him. Lin-Manuel is walking off stage. He turns, as he's walking off stage to a standing ovation of his show,

he turns and somehow looks directly at me and mouths, Boomer lives. Oh my God. You know, and it was just such a private, beautiful, large moment for me, you know, because who's going to know? You know, and I just saw it directly. I was looking right at him and he did it. I couldn't fucking believe it. It was so fucking sweet and beautiful.

There's like made me feel special. People. It made me feel special. And. It made me feel special. And I went backstage. We had a nice conversation. And I met Christopher Jackson as well. And we made plans. I'm going to go back and talk to him.

And I'm excited to talk to him. I'm excited to learn about theater. And I've been doing that. It's exciting. It's a new thing. It's a new thing. It's a new thing. And so that was a thrilling part of the New York trip. You hear me? Dig it. So, okay, Jimmy Fallon. I personally love Jimmy Fallon. Great guy, fun guy. I'm always happy to see him. And I was excited

that they let me come on The Tonight Show because I had not done the Tonight Show. I've only done one other Tonight Show. So I go to a 30 Rock. Sarah goes with me, hanging out, getting ready to go on, changing my shirt. And Lorne Michaels just walks in. Hey, how's it going? How you doing?

I'm like, what? Huh? Like he just dropped by to chat. And he hung out for about five ten minutes just talking asked me how i was doing what was going on how i was feeling we talked about louis for a little while and about comedy and uh he said i gotta go gotta go across the hall and go to work i'm like all right nice to see you it was it was uh i don't know what to tell you people i don't know what to say it was a very nice thing and i was very i was excited to see him it's very nice where you know where i've got this place in the world that's mine i don't really need

anything from anybody i really don't and i like talking to people and i like doing what i do but i just uh you know i'm okay i'm okay where i'm do, but I just, you know, I'm okay. I'm okay where I'm at. And it was nice that, you know, I don't think we're gonna be hanging out. Like, you know, I don't know that, you know, we're gonna go out to dinner or anything, but it was a cool experience for me. All right.

It was nice. It was nice to be relaxed and not need anything and just have a chat with a guy that, you know, I've, you know,'ve uh you know got to know by talking to him on this show and he just happens to be warren michaels is that okay can i have that experience all right look here's what i got to tell you i'm serious about ali wong i'm serious that you should watch this special it's called baby cobra premieres on netflix tomorrow may 6th i'm not being paid by netflix I'm not, I just, she kind of blew me away

and I was excited about that. And I'm glad that this timed out and we could have her on the show and talk to her because she's a great comic. So let's talk now. Embrace yourself. There is a, what am I saying that for? It's a beautiful thing.

It's a beautiful thing that happens. And all right, so this is me and Ali Wong. It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats, but meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls. Yes, we deliver those.

Moose? No, but moose head? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly.

Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series. FX's shogun only on disney plus we live and we die we control nothing beyond that an epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by james clavelle to show your true heart just to risk your life when i die here you'll never leave japan alive fx's shogun A new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required.

T's and C's apply. On. How old's this kid now? She's almost five months. She's five months. Yeah. A girl. You had a girl.

A girl. Yeah. Like, I sort of, only seeing you at the comedy store, it's just like, oh, she's pregnant. And I'm like, oh, she must have. Yeah. So, I don't know. Like, our lives only cross in that way. So, I guess, well, everything went all right.

There she is in her sweatpants without the baby. Yeah. I only wear sweatpants now. Yeah. I can't handle any buttons, any zippers. I can only pull. Why? It's too much, dude.

It's like when you have a kid, it's awesome. And it's not, for me, it hasn't been as hard as everybody says it was, but it's relentless. Yeah. So like any way you can shave off minutes, let's do it. Yeah. So like a button, going to get in my way of going into taking a pee, taking a shower. Yeah. Cutting it out.

No more buttons. Yeah. And then you have to deal with the kid constantly. When do you start getting help to deal with the kid? I got help two months out. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah yeah and it's amazing so i've been having help so i i mean i complain about it a lot on stage but really it's been pretty great and not like i said not as hard as everybody said it was really that's because she's a chill baby and also because um you know people complain a lot about the lack of sleep but when you're a comic and you had to do the road when you're not

famous yeah and you have to do like radio right and fly to horrible parts of the united states yeah and then get up in the morning to drive to another whole part in the United States to perform for a lackluster crowd. That was really hard. Well, you made it sound so good, comedy. Comedy, yeah. I mean, when you're not an overnight success and you're doing the long road, you have the longer road, and you're doing the road like that. I fucking loved your

special i watched it oh thanks man it's like one of the best specials i've seen in a long time oh my god that means so much does it yeah no i mean i always liked you and i'm trying to remember like i had this thing did you feature for me in san francisco once i hosted for you fresh fresh off of one of your divorces i don't know which one it was must have been like 2006 yeah ish seven i think so right and and to be honest like everybody was hyping up this guy mark maron yeah and everything and like you were a legend and i was like oh my god i cannot wait to host for him. And you were depressed.com. And the whole set was just you sitting on the stool, trying to process your divorce.

And I swear to God, it was as if you had just gotten divorced, like literally right before you got on stage. Probably. She probably just left me. Yeah. And was that one of your first opening gigs it was so when was that like so give me the date was it 2006 i think it was 2006 right so yeah that makes sense yeah but i remember like you were so fucking funny and i actually had one of these

things where i had years later this was a few years ago like i was doing a bit about like about yoga and I'm like why does this feel familiar it wasn't like didn't you used to do a like a bitter yoga instructor bit yes right how they like gosh I forgot about that you know how they do all their diatribes yeah yeah right and then some and then they'll just be like okay you know we're gonna really focus on breathing and i really need to focus on my breathing because i'm uh having bad thoughts you know because my i'm in a custody battle with my husband and i need strength and you're just like oh get me out of here um yeah so i think i did used to do something right well i did a guy i just did a guy in class you know like that this sort of in i do the position i'd be in in just hating on the teacher

like oh fuck you fuck you this is it was different but like i remembered like she did the yoga teacher thing like the bitter yo like sort of uh that was funny why don't you do that anymore i don't know things oh no they go, no, they go away, right? They come and go for me. When did you start doing comedy? Right after, stand-up comedy, I started doing it right after college. Maybe when I was 23 years old. So that was like in 2005.

And you grew up in the Bay Area the whole time? I grew up in San Francisco. Right in San Francisco. Yeah. Like what neighborhood? In Pacific Heights. Really? Yeah, right by Temple Emanuel.

Uh-huh, uh-huh. And like watching the special, like it's weird because your special, like there's actually a spoiler possibility. Right, maybe don't spoil that. No, no, no, I won't. But like it's like it was so fucking beautiful and crass and fucking ballsy,

and you're all pregnant dressed in a tight dress. I fucking loved it. Oh, thanks, man. It's like just being straight up honest and being as smartly filthy as you were. It was really smart. Oh, thanks. I mean, a lot of people i think have intentions about the kind of comic they want to be and i it's so hard to just be funny yeah and that's all i ever

wanted to be and even now it's like what is going to make them laugh and what's going to make me laugh and also that's the goal yeah and honest yeah like i don't want to do there's some like i i mean hopefully i don't do hacky stuff and i don't want to because it doesn't make me laugh even if it makes other people laugh it doesn't make me laugh then i don't want to do it well the funny the funny thing is about your approach to being a woman is like there are like you you know, the hacky avenues. Right. And there really isn't any. Yeah.

And everything that you bring up that what I thought was amazing is like not only does what you're talking about, you know, whether it be, you know, shitting or anal or, you know, fucking that, not only does it make men uncomfortable, but makes women uncomfortable, but they're so happy that there's a revelation, you know, like they're like, you literally do stuff that, that, you know, in depth, not like just pay lip service to that, that women do not fucking talk about in public or that whole prostate thing. See, I'm just going to drop little nuggets. I'm not going to. Right.

Well, cause it's true for me, you know, you know like right that's like that's the honest thing it's like you know i'm uh like obviously kind of like a perverted gross freaky person and i mean i do talk in my special about how i it's like sticking my fingers up a man's butthole a straight man's ass is so exciting to me yeah it's like I went to Disneyland recently and I got this special hookup where I got to skip all the lines got to go on all these awesome roller coasters none of that was exciting to me than sticking my fingers up a straight man's butthole like when you're the first to do it it's so exciting it's so like because there there's all this like besides the physical stuff it's like i mean at the at my age and like at this point in my life sex is like 99 mental shit anyways right and for me to get

aroused it's like doggy style spanking don't cut it no more. I have to wage psychological warfare on a man in order for me to come. So. But yeah, but like also the way you characterize the dude sort of being sort of like, no, no, no. Yeah. I just like, I don't know what it is, whether it's San Francisco or like, because there is both your comedic style and also the sexuality that you're exposed to just by living there culturally like you know with the with the size of especially the male gay community you're like you hear about fucking everything and you you know you live with it all the time and you you talk to people about it and that that like the intensity of those conversations

and the type of sexuality that happens in that town almost publicly. Yeah. I mean, and I grew up, you know, my dad was a doctor and he worked in the ER. What kind of doctor? He's an anesthesiologist. Okay. And he would tell me about all the crazy things he would see as a result of people's like sexual adventures.

He would see, you know, in the ER yeah men would come in with like 50 barbie heads in there get the fuck out of here yeah all sorts of stuff we just used i don't want to well i don't know when this is going to go on we just used a guy putting a barbie doll head in his ass on my tv show yeah i mean that i'm glad to see that there's a you know it's a thing because you can see again how like sex is like a lot of it is mental stuff. Right. Why does that arouse you? Maybe because you like to play with Barbies and who knows?

Well, fetish. The world of fetish is like, God, that's, you can't even explain it. Exactly. Yeah. So, so really? And he would talk openly about all that stuff. So he's a pretty progressive guy? Yeah.

In a way? Yeah. My dad was really, really progressive. Both my parents. Yeah? Were, yeah. And you have just one brother? I have a brother and two sisters. Oh a way? Yeah. My dad was really, really progressive. Both my parents were. And you have just one brother? I have a brother and two sisters.

Oh, yeah? I was the last. They're all 10 years and up old. So your mom is really in her 80s? My mom is, she's in her late 70s now. Yeah. Yeah. And your dad's- He's gone.

He's gone. He passed away. He passed away about five years ago or so. So you're growing up in San Francisco. And just judging by the set, you were pretty wild. Yeah, I was. Like in high school, I went to a private school and did a lot of drinking. Yeah.

And I was... But you grew up middle middle class like comfortable right yeah totally comfortable and i i mean for no good reason i didn't have a lot of angst or anything it was just like fuck it fuck it something to do and i drank a lot i at one point i think i remember i drank in high school like two and a half of those 40 ounces of old english yeah disgusting yeah blackout yeah i'm surprised that i'm still here yeah what about drugs no i was not that big into drugs and then because weed always made me paranoid and i was scared to do anything else yeah so i haven't and since then um i haven't really been into drugs.

Like I kind of stopped in high school. Yeah. And then I met my husband who is really into ayahuasca. And then we. How old are you guys? We're both like, I'm 33 and he's 34. Right. And then I hadn't done anything except for weed since high school.

Yeah. And it was like zero to 100. You went and did it. What did you do it in this sort of like environment with other people? The whole ayahuasca thing? We've done it a couple times together now. Yeah. Like is it?

At first I did it just to prove to him that I could be his like warrior princess because I really liked him. And I was like, oh, like. It's part of the test. Yeah. Like it's part of the test yeah like it's part of the test yeah exactly yeah and um but then i i mean a lot came out and it was wonderful really yeah wait let's let's let's back up so your husband is like what's he do for a job he works in startup stuff now oh so he's like one you know he's like a business dude he's like gambling looking for the for the app money he that's when he's doing his own startup thing but now he's like with an

established startup but before um i mean he'll go back and forth between like a corporate thing his thing and then another thing yeah he's doing great oh good so all right so this is a grown man and he's a grown man but he's a grown man, but he's obvious. He's like an Asian dude with Aztec undertones. It's very hard to understand him. Where did he grow up? He grew up in DC. With like another middle-class guy.

Yes. Like is he in your special? He went to Harvard business school. Yes. So very cultured, very cultured. Was his parents in politics or something? No. Do you know those little octopuses that came in your cereal when we were younger that you would throw on the wall and that were sticky?

Yeah. His dad was the distributor of those. And then his mom worked at the World Bank. They're awesome. The distributor of sticky octopuses? Yeah. And then he had a show on the East Coast called Dr. Fad. Yeah.

This is his dad? This is his dad. Yeah. So it's so funny because my dad was like a really unconventional, quirky Asian guy who always surprised people with his quirkiness. And then when now my friends meet my husband's dad they're like wow that's so crazy what are the odds what are the odds that you both have these same weirdo dads yeah but his dad's what japanese japanese yeah your dad's chinese my dad's chinese and his mom's filipino yes and

my mom's vietnamese so we gave birth to asia all of it all of it yeah what's it what's the kid look like she looks japanese she does very whatever she can look like however she wants to look like but i wish she looked a little bit more like me but part of me is what do you think you look like thai um i don't know when i'm in vietnam people think i'm japanese but I think that's because of the way I dress and because I wear like interesting glasses. I don't know, but most people can guess that I'm Chinese. Oh, yeah? Yeah. I'm kind of Southeast Asian.

But like your dad, like did they speak Chinese? Yes. So it's kind of, you know, a lot of my other friends who are Asian American, who I went to UCLA with, their parents came more recently. Yeah. But my mom came from Vietnam in the 1960s, which is very unusual because most Vietnamese people came after 1975. Was she leaving the war? No. No. She came on a scholarship to just study at a college in the Midwest.

She got lucky, huh? She got really lucky. And then my dad was born and raised in San Francisco, in San Francisco, Chinatown. Oh, wow. And he grew up- In Chinatown. In Chinatown.

Like, wow. Super poor, no running water, slept in a twin bed with his two sisters and his mom, like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory style, feet by the head. Yeah. No running water. In Chinatown in San Francisco. In Chinatown, San Francisco.

Had to fish out vegetables out of the garbage. Oh my God. Yeah. Crazy. With his mother. With his mother. So when he succeeded, were they around to appreciate and enjoy that? Yeah.

Yeah. That's a hell of a story. Yeah. So they were first generation, his parents. Yeah. His parents came here. Wow. Through Angel Island.

Uh-huh. Yeah. Which is, is that in San Francisco? In San Francisco. That's like the Ellis Island of the West Coast? Yes. Which is all probably Asian immigrants. It's all Asian immigrants.

His dad, my grandfather came when he was eight years old to work as a houseboy. In San Francisco? In Monterey. Oh, my God. Yeah, but he came when he was eight years old by himself. And we have a picture from Angel Island, this black and white picture, and he's just, he's so small. It's like it-

Did you know him? Barely. He passed away when I was in second grade. Wow. Yeah. I mean, I didn't really have much. And then I couldn't communicate with my grandma on my mom's side at all. So I didn't really have much of a relationship with her.

Yeah. Is she here? No. Oh. Yeah. So you don't speak any of the languages? No. I speak conversational Vietnamese, but that's because I went and did this program in college

and after college to learn Vietnamese. But it's like either proficiency of maybe like a second grader. Right. Which is kind of cute probably to some people. Not to Vietnamese people. They're like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Just speak English. And I thought my mom would be excited.

And she's like, this is so exhausting. Trying to hear your long ass, slow, boring sentences about what time is it? Basic shit. Let's talk about real shit in English, please. Does she talk like that? No, she doesn't talk like that. The spirit is like that. So now, like with something like that they were they discouraged to be married because

of the two you know like a jew thing like where it's sort of like was your dad's mom like don't marry a vietnamese lady i don't think so okay yeah and then none of that baggage no and my mom was banging yeah too yeah i mean it's like it's crazy when you have a mom who is so much, like you look at pictures of her and they're so much hotter than you will ever be. So it's like, I'm sure her, you know, my dad's parents were like, yeah. Yeah. Get it. You know? Yeah.

And where'd you meet your husband? At a wedding. So he went to, I went to this, he went to Sidwell, which is where like obama's go to school a private school yeah private school in dc and then i went to like the sidwell of san francisco and then so we went to school with all jewish people yeah and we went to this wedding in napa where the bride uh i went to high school with her and he went to high school with the husband yeah we were the only asian people at the wedding and everybody else was Jewish. Yeah.

And I saw him and I was like, we were probably raised in the same economic bracket. Yeah. He's hot. I'm gonna make this happen. And you did. And I did, yeah. And we turned out to click and he turned out to be a lot more interesting

and weird and like fun than I had expected. And it keeps going that way really yeah well that's exciting yeah that's a good story yeah and but you but by that point so like you met him at a wedding how old were you were you already doing comedy yeah that was maybe five or six years ago so did he come watch you do comedy and have to he did i sent him an email to come see me do a show because i was like this guy he's really good looking he looks like joseph gordon levitt yeah and i was like i am gonna get this guy with my looks yeah it's either he's gonna like the funny or he's not gonna like the funny and that's my only shot and so i invited him to a show and he loved it oh good yeah

and then we went out on a what i thought was a date but he like actually borrowed money from me on our first date and then i was like fuck this is not a date and then he borrowed money he borrowed money from me to pay for the date yeah and it was like one of those places in new york where you order at the counter and pick up your food right at the counter and it was disgusting yeah and i was disappointed but then we just kept on going out yeah so all right so that brings us so you he had graduated harvard business already and he was and he was when you met him he was living in new york yeah so you were kind of going back and forth and doing some comedy and like hanging out with him i was living in new york at the time too you were yeah so i lived in san francisco for i did comedy san

francisco for maybe like four years and then i lived in new york for like two years doing comedy yeah did i didn't i didn't what i guess i never came across you then. What were you doing? Like the alt rooms and shit? Yes. I was doing a lot of, doing the alt rooms. Yeah. Doing the clubs whenever I could. Like comic strip? Yeah.

Did you ever get in the cellar? I did, but after I, yeah, I think I did towards the end. Yeah. And then I lived in New York again because I was on this ABC medical drama that was shooting in New York. And then I was at the cellar. Yeah, I mean, I was at the cellar. You were acting in a medical drama? I was. And you had a regular gig?

Yeah, I played a quirky radiologist with agoraphobia. And I had a love arc with a plumber. Which show was that? It was called Black Box. Vanessa Redgrave was in it. Oh, really? Yes. And that was just an acting gig? That was just an acting gig, yeah. And it was great. Wow. How many

episodes of that did it go? Thirteen. So it did a whole season? It did a whole season. It was in the summer. It died. Yeah. As things do. And you're dating your boyfriend, you're doing comedy, and you're on a TV show. Yeah. Everything's going good. Yeah. It was one of the best times. And then you come back here.

Then I come back here. What brought you, like, how did it go? So you were in San Francisco doing comedy, then you go to New York. Yeah, and then it was like, in San Francisco, there comes a point where, I mean, I used to joke that there's this saying that people who live in New York have a lot of ambition and a lot of talent. And people who live in LA have a lot of ambition and no talent. And people in San Francisco go to Burning Man.

And I was like, I felt that. And I was like, I got to get out of here. I can't like, I had friends who their whole lives were built around like Burning Man and like Poetry Night at the Cafe. That's what San Francisco used to be. It's not like, you know, not this like diggish tech town that it is now and so i was like i gotta get out of here like and there was comics there who were just like ghosts who would just like you know your dream was to like get to be a feature at the punch line and they would just like be a feature forever and i'm like i can't do that yeah people don't

leave it's the weirdest thing and like when you're there i never quite understood there's a lot of that sort of like maybe not anymore because of the tech boom, but just, you know, culturally when I was there, I never knew what the fuck was going on, you know, just energy wise. I got the gay community, but there was this whole other world of people that just seemed to be lost in between college and being 90. You're like, what the fuck? What the fuck is happening? You know?

Yeah. It's bizarre, man. It's bizarre. Like there's something about, I think weed is just killing the will of so many people. They just. There's like that and they hacked the system. Yeah. Like there's so many awesome social services in San Francisco or like they found an apartment

or something. And they just like, they hacked that shit. Yeah. Or like they found an apartment or something. Right. And they just like, they hacked that shit. Yeah. And somehow like are able to live in this beautiful apartment and, you know. Just smoke weed.

Just smoke weed, working on that zine. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Volunteering at 826 Valencia. Yeah. Like doing God knows, working at that nonprofit. Yeah.

That takes, you know, children of color and hot air balloons once a year or something. Yeah. And also there's just this thing about, you know, to be a big shot and big fish in a little pond. There's a lot of that there. Totally. And a lot of guys, like a lot of people would come down here and just fucking hit the wall

and then scramble back. And they give up. Yeah. On one turn. Right. Do you know what? Like back in the day, like those comics you're talking about, the San Francisco guys, theyisco guys they come they do an evening at the improv and they're like i guess that's it exactly what the fuck you talking about i know it's hard to understand show business like there's

a whole generation of comics like some people and it's still that way some people get into comedy to do comedy and then they just expect show business to find them somehow and i'm like what are you doing yeah you got to be full of anger and resentment and ambition and yeah and that takes years to build up to a callous that's why it's like the comics that i like yeah they have to have that yeah i only like comics who have been doing it for 10 years plus yeah i don't know what the hell is going on i would say maybe 15 years sure even you know yeah because at least you know you're in the hands of a professional you know even if you don't like their comedy you're like that person fits up there and they have to go that thing like i i heard that that awesome interview you did with patrice o'neill

and he talks about going on the roller coaster twice in this business and i think i only want to listen to people who have been on the roller coaster like at least twice yeah you know where they're not having as much fun on the second ride anymore because they're so filled with like anxiety that the roller coaster ride is going to end because it's so human. Yeah. And I identify with that. And that's how life is.

You know, that's how like relationships are. Right. It's like, I mean, it's interesting because, you know, with my parents, by the time they got to me, they understood the concept of dating. They didn't understand that with my siblings at first, I think. Like the first person you date, you don't marry. But they understand like you ramp up, you think you're going to marry this person, and then the relationship goes sour and it dies.

And you move on and the next person you find is better. Or you just repeat the same thing over and over again. Or you go on the same roller coaster ride over and over again. Yeah, it's just a different color, a different race. And then you wonder one day why you're like, this is not even fun. I know when it's going to, oh, here comes that thing. Yeah. But you must have been like, you know, if the stuff in your special is based on truth,

your parents must have been like, what the fuck are we going to do with her? Kind of. Or they were over it. They were over it. I mean, my sister is an unemployed lesbian one of my sisters so they're like do whatever the fuck you want like you make money you you know great and when they came to my shows and people were laughing in san francisco they couldn't believe it and they were so proud yeah yeah they're really supportive because they were like you know

you realized it you did it yeah yeah even if they don't get it and i had ambition you know they were like proud that i wanted to do something you're like a real comic i mean you wanted to be a real comic i mean when you were coming up in san francisco who were you watching there because there was like the one thing about san francisco when I lived there for that two years or whatever, it enabled a freedom of creativity on a comedy stage that no other place does. Totally. It's built into the fabric of the city to sort of like be yourself. There's that whole kind of riff style that you kind of like are part of in a way I can tell that some of the influences where you just sort of own the stage. You have freedom of mind and you do what you're gonna do you define yourself yeah i mean they'll indulge

some noodling san francisco they'll let you fucking dick off totally and it's part because there's like homeless people on the street at civic center bart station who are like talking your ear off and people listen to them you know so it's like they'll listen to anybody um yeah I mean it was such a great place to come up you were like 23 when you started I was 23 where'd you go to college UCLA you did the whole four years I did the whole story studying what Asian American Studies yeah so you're on top of that shit um got a handle on it I feel you are asian now you are asian american studies you've covered you've got it all covered well it's so interesting because i thought i was so passionate about it at the time and i was so into it yeah what was the angle

though what do you think you were going to do with it i thought maybe i would be like a professor right something right yeah and then this other guy who was in one of my classes was talking about how after he finished college, he was not going to continue with like academia and Asian American studies and that he was going to go into the restaurant business. Yeah. And he was like, yeah, I mean, you know, do you want to study or do you want to be studied? And I was like, oh, I guess being studied sounds more glamorous. That was an Asian guy? It was an Asian guy. That was because that was a very simple philosophical kind of like almost Zen-like question.

Yeah, yeah. There's something very Asian about the phrasing. Totally. It was like a Yoda phrase. Right, Buddha just came up to you through that guy. Yeah, and I was like, and then, but I was in this comedy group also in college. Yeah. So it kind of.

Sketch group? A sketch group, yeah. So the first time you did stand up, was it like at the Punchline? I think it was at the Brainwash Cafe in San Francisco. Oh, the washing machine? That place south of Market. Yes, it's a laundromat slash cafe. I think I was there when that started.

Full on homeless shelter. Yeah. Yeah. And they'd have a show started. Full on homeless shelter. Yeah. Yeah. And they'd have a show there. They'd have a show there. And you'd sign up. You got to do like three or five minutes. And there's all those washing machines.

And you can eat there too, right? They had coffee and shit. Yeah. Yeah, I remember that place. Yeah. I remember when that was happening. Like at the very beginning maybe when I went back up there. It was one of those things where, I mean, you started when that was happening.

That shit wasn't happening when I started. What, like shitty shows? Well, all rooms. That were kind of awesome? Oh, yeah. Like that, where it's sort of like, there's this sort of idea, it's like, yeah, there's a show at a laundromat.

Like, in what world would that be a good thing? Like when I was coming up, if someone said, you want to do this show at a laundromat? Oh, now that's like the norm. I know, I know. Now people like fight to get on these shows. I know. And it's like, it's in a backyard.

Yeah. And there's a secret email list. It's not even promoted on Twitter or whatever. It's like, hey, how can I get on that show? I'll still do the shittiest shows. I was doing them up until like a year or so ago. And then I realized like, I don't need to. I'm not going to.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Just, I mean, recently, like I was like, I got to be part of that. And I got to like that audience. And then like, you know, one day, you know, I just was at, you know, at one of them. And I'm like, I just want to do real comedy. Yeah. At a real comedy place.

You know, like when you go to the store, you're like, this is like a real, this is where you do comedy. Right. For real. Yeah. Well, that's become your, I mean, you're one of those people where that's kind of become your open mic. Yeah. That's become the place. I can do comedy. Right. For real. Yeah. Well, that's become your, I mean, you're one of those people where that's kind of become your open mic. Yeah. That's become the place-

I can do it there now. Where you feel safe. Right. I don't totally have that yet. And I don't know if I even want to have that place because sometimes when the audience is so shitty- At the store? No, not at the store, but like at these other shitty rooms.

Right. When the circumstances are so shitty you get that anger and then you blurt out what you need do you is that how you write that's how i write me too i never write i only write on stage i can't just sit it all has to come from like pure emotion it's the best yeah and you just feel like something streaming out of your mouth and you you have like no pause between your brain and your mouth and then it's delivered it's delivered oh it's the best it's great but it comes from and it comes from honesty and emotion and frustration right and so that's why those rooms will always i think

have value to me and i am one of those comics too who's like i'm so in love with the process yeah of stand-up comedy like i it you know, on the chance, one times out of ten, that I'll get a new bit writing on stage, I chase after that all the time. It's the best. Yeah, and that's why, like, with this kid, like, I still can't help but go out a lot. Yeah.

Yeah, at night. Well, it's like, it's our valve. You know, it's like where we actually have a voice. Yeah. That, you know, that's like where we actually have a voice. Yeah. That, you know, that I can't even explain it, but I don't meet many people that write like that because I do it too. And then, you know, when you have part of a new bit, like it's working good enough and you're just waiting for it to finish itself.

When is this going to finish itself? And then one night it just comes and you're like oh there you were I've been waiting for you it's the best because um alright so so you're doing the laundromat and then you're doing the punchline

yeah so you know Molly should make the book or the punchline so great had this whole system she was like 12, I think. Oh, she's. She was there when she was like 15. She's been there forever. Yeah.

And so intimidating to me at first. Well, she does that. Yeah. But then like, she's my friend now and I love her. And she's like, she's just like a, you know, now she's a friend. But it was so scary because she, there was this system. I don't know any club in any city that has this system where you wait in the back at the punchline every Sunday.

You get to know all the comics, watch people's sets. There's 13 spots. Yeah. And you wait like nine months to a year and a half to get one of those spots, your first shot. Really? Yeah. And so I waited every Sunday and watched, you know,

the same comics go up and, you know, people really wanted that. And then finally I got my first shot. Yeah. And all of these, you know, older comics were like really sweet and gave a recommendation for me. And I ate it so hard. But then she gave me another shot six months later later and it did and i did well and then did you let on that you were eating it or just plow i just plow yeah i'm a plow you are a plower

yeah i don't like to let on i'm like what is the point yeah i'm not gonna come up with any new bits about that are valuable about bombing i'm just gonna yeah but i noticed today i'm a plower because sometimes you do like you were doing that first spot in the original room sometimes right oh yeah i'll plow it's the worst yeah i don't want to riff on like are you from australia blah blah why they're still seating people they're still seating people none of that has any value to me i don't that's not what i feel about talking about in my soul you know yeah I'm like, it becomes this exercise in just practicing saying the words, you know? And you're conscious of that?

Yes, very conscious. Like when you're up there plowing, like, because I'm not a plower, you know, I'll be like. Oh yeah, you're an acknowledger. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm like, I'm not going to let you do this to me. Right. I hold them responsible.

Yeah. Is this how it's going to be? Fine. Yeah yeah but like when you're plowing do you do you feel the bit not hit yeah and then i'll just keep going again just keep going i think that's a good get to the end of the finish line yeah so i ate it and then six months later you put them again and i did well but at that time you're doing all rooms getting your chops yes yeah and i think pretty quickly too i started putting on like my own shows where i would headline and i thought i had like

40 minutes yeah and i would do 40 minutes uh at like the dark room in san francisco which is a black box theater yeah um and have like other people like kevin camia or whatever feature that's the way to do it though because like if i need to really write shit like i'm gonna start at and have other people like Kevin Kamiya or whatever feature. That's the way to do it, though, because if I need to really write shit, I'm going to start at the Steve Allen Theater for two months weekly, like every Tuesday over at the Steve Allen. Yeah. Just be like $5, and I'm just, you know, lower your expectations.

Totally. Let's see what happens. Yeah. So that was pretty, like, not only dedicated, but it was a smart thing to do. Because, like, even if you didn't have 40 minutes, at least you're doing 40 minutes. Yeah, and, like, Moshe Kasher and Brent Weinbach have put on a lot of their own shows. Are they your generation? No, they're older. I mean, they started before me.

Did they? They started maybe, like, four years before me. Because I think he featured for me or opened for me when Moshe was, like, sort of disturbing looking. Oh, hilarious. me but i think he featured for me or open for me when mosha was like sort of disturbing looking oh hilarious you remember when he was all hip-hoppy and fucking weird and like you couldn't quite see what his personality was because he was so uncomfortable and angry he's gone through many awesome well now he's all sort of nice and clean and haircutted and he's got glasses that are sometimes colored pink you know but like when i first worked with him he was like frightening in a way because he was so unformed and so clearly mad yeah and then gradually the punchline the goal

is to like host yeah and then you meet all of these awesome headliners like yourself and david tell me on the wrong week but i get it yeah yes. Yes, to be honest, yes. Patrice O'Neill, who all helped me a lot when I moved to New York. Doug Benson. And then I think someone said to me, too, if you stay in San Francisco long enough to move up to feature at the Punchline, you've stayed too long. Right. And then I was like, yeah. And then after four years, and I felt it.

And I was like, I got to go. I want to go to New York. go to New York and I want to become like you want to be in show business great comic yeah yeah I want to become a great comic yeah is is that's still the goal you know even when people say to me like oh are you still doing the stand-up thing what the fuck what the fuck and I still feel like so insulted so hurt yeah and I'm like, that is my thing. That's the thing that I always do. Amateurs ruined it. Amateurs ruined it. And I never got into stand-up as a backdoor to TV writing or acting. All of that is a way for me to not do shitty shows anymore. Like when I go out on the road.

Like when I travel. I want it. That's why I'm hoping this special you know is a game changer for me because i hope that when i travel and i'm away from my daughter for like a night or three days that it's worth it and that it feels good because i can work out stuff in la i love doing 15 minute spots in la but when i go on the road like i don't want to do like six days in the last smoking club in America anymore. You know, I can't. Yeah.

I can't do that anymore. Well, that, you know, that was sort of my realization when, you know, when I started this podcast and I was looking down the barrel at being broke and, you know, being a comic for 20 years and being a headliner. I was like, I don't want to do that. Right. For my whole like what yeah you know and and you know all i ever wanted to be was a comic and then i had this fluky success with this this secret skill and but still like for me like i i just got done shooting a season of my show right so now like i gotta i gotta put together another hour yeah and there's

that moment where you're like i've only been doing saturdays for four months because i'm shooting a tv show right and i'm like i don't fucking where does how does that happen yeah how do i do a new hour yeah and then like i don't feel so good too one joke that one joke yeah like one new joke because i just i did this special which which not many people saw and then i had had to go out and do three shows that were hours at theaters, small theaters. And I'm like, I can't do all old stuff. Did you do some old stuff? I did a couple. Yeah, you have to.

Well, the weird thing is, most people haven't seen my special. It was on Epix, and now it's on Hulu and Amazon. What am I thinking? That all 800 people made- Saw it, and they're going to hold you accountable. And they'll be like, seen it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Boom. No I thinking? That all 800 people made. Saw it. And they're going to hold you accountable. And they'll be like, seen it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Boom. No new stuff. That's somebody we invent. That person lives in our head more than that. There's one dick who will do that. But whatever.

Fuck them. Yeah. But the thing was, is like, because what you were talking about before, you know, that sort of like, you know, like, and just getting up there and like, this is where it happens, man. Yeah. And you don't even think that way. Like when, I don't know about you, but when I'm going out there, I'm not like, like, okay, I hope, I hope something happens.

I do say that, but I'm like, I'm not hard on myself because once I get up there, if I've got the rage or I've got the thoughts, they'll, you know, they'll come with the relationship with the audience. Yeah. And I got one new chunk that I kind of polished over three weeks. That's a nice big bit. And I'm i'm going you're going and you can't and like that journey yeah is like better than the result itself oh yeah that's why even like when a you know special's done i'm like i'm not done with those jokes yeah you know like i'm like i keep adding to that yeah

yeah you can write and i watch it over and i'm like oh i could have refined that so much better right it just it never ends. Well, that's what happens when you write like we do. It's never finished. Yeah. You just expand the conversation. Right. You know?

Yeah. And I'm still, like I said, I'm still so in love with that, you know? It's creative. It's being a good comic. Yeah. And you're a very good comic. Oh, thank you. Like that fucking special is great.

Thanks. Like I've never seen like, you know, it's like rare fucking special it's great thanks like i've never seen like you know it's like rare that like but i always like watching you but the thing because of you know you're you're you know you've had you've got fucking guts and and you're not afraid and your style i i like you know people who like you know kick some balls oh thanks i think it's also there's like this whole new there was like this thing when maybe i was starting to like even now maybe still where it was like unfashionable to have energy yeah you know what i mean it was like look lazy look lazy be soft spoken like you

know because then it really speaks to the writing or something. And that's no fun. Yeah. I'm not into that. Yeah, yeah. So I, but like when I'm working stuff out, I will do that thing where I will be like very soft spoken to see. Because I do want to see if just the material will stand on itself without the energy. Chris Rock does that. Yeah, I'm really into that.

You really? I think that's a really good technique because then once you pair it together with a big audience, then it's like, but you do want to, then if the material stands on its own with like you being all soft

and it's like, okay, this is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So you go San Francisco, New York and then what brings you to LA? Back to LA after all that. I had gotten a manager

and then he was like, you need to come to LA for pilot season and then I started working and doing some TV stuff, acting stuff and then I just decided to stay. I was resisting it and then one day I was just like, I am gonna decide to like LA

and as soon as I made that decision and stopped being bitter about how you have to drive everywhere and how it's like superficial, whatever, and I embraced it, I loved it. And now I can't see myself living anywhere else. It's so authentically diverse. You know, San Francisco now is whack. Yeah. Sorry, but it's whack. It's like so unaffordable, so not diverse.

Yeah. You know, like my sister i live in culver city yeah and my sister came with me to this comic book store like two blocks away and she was like there's a black dude running that comic book store and it blew her mind and she was like in san you know because in san francisco she was like she was like this is you know la is so crazy like you have access to like all this amazing Asian food. Yeah. And San Francisco is just like all rich, white and Asian people. The mission is like unidentifiable now.

Yeah. It's like, what is this? I lived at like 22nd and South Van Ness in 1992. Yeah. And it was like the Wild West. Right. It was fucking crazy. It was like The Walking Dead.

Yeah. Yeah. It was nuts. And there's still that one corner where you get out of the bart admission where it's straight up squalor it's like what is going on yeah it's not like how can you have this with all this money and everything but that still exists that one fucking corner yeah it's it's fucking exciting yeah you're like thank god it's exciting if you didn't grow up in that and And you're like, even as a kid. It was all like that. Yeah, even as a kid, I was like, leave me alone.

Yeah. Stop trying to talk to me. I don't feel sorry for any of you. So, okay, but with the husband, did he just move out here? Where were you guys at? You were like, you were in New York? I was in New York, and then he moved to San Francisco and to do like startup stuff. And then I was here and I was like,

what are we going to do, buddy? I'm not coming back to San Francisco. And what are we going to do? And I mean, I still can't believe to this day that he moved here for me. Yeah. Because it was like, I've never had anybody do that before

yeah and it still flatters me yeah this day that he did that yeah uh with you know no no community for him i had all my girlfriends from college and everything they're all here still they're all here and i love them to death we all had kids at the same time and we all like hang out without the boob and breastfeed together while we like complain about our kids. Is there a place called boob and breastfeed? There's a place called the pump station. Oh, there is? Where people do get together who like, those are for women who kind of, I think don't have

their tribe yet and they need to find their tribe of women who are going through the same shit as them. And they just, cause you need that. And they gather and they breastfeed together and exchange tips on how to breastfeed better. Uh-huh. Because it's hard. Yeah, it's hard. So, like, this special is, like, I love that you didn't even really fucking address that you were pregnant until two-thirds of the way in.

Yeah, because it's not about that. I mean, I had, it's my first special. I never wanted to do, like. And you just happened to be seven and a half months pregnant. I'm, I never wanted to do. And you just happened to be seven and a half months pregnant. Well, it was like, it was, I think it was time for me to do, I felt like it was time for me to do a special because I'd been doing standup comedy for 10 or so years. And I was like, I want to put a lot of this material away.

Yeah. And I had never done, you know, like a half hour or anything like that. yeah and i had never done right like a half hour or anything like that and also with the being pregnant thing like so many people discouraged me from having a kid because they were like why are you gonna have a kid we're never gonna see you again because it's true like female like it's very rare to see a female comic who has a kid or is pregnant because female stand-up comics don't get pregnant yeah because once they do have a baby they disappear yeah they become a martyr and then they stop doing stand-up but that's not the case with male stand-up comics i talk about this on stage male stand-up comics they have a baby i'm gonna get up on stage like a week after the baby's

born talk about it and then they'll like complain about how the baby's shitty and boring and annoying and all these other shitty dads in the audience are like, that's hilarious. I identify. And then their fame just swells because now they're this relatable family funny man all of a sudden. And they get an HBO special and a sitcom deal. And then the mom is at home suffering with bloody nipples yeah uh broken pussy you know career over and and so like for me i had a lot of anxiety about it being over once i had a kid and i was like i'm not gonna let that happen and i'm not i don't want like even like being pregnant to slow

me down so then i like planned it that way because I was like, I need to know for myself that this is not the end. Having a kid is not the end. And I want to associate my baby girl and my pregnancy and having a kid with the beginning of something. And it was funny because my girlfriend is like Berkeley Art School kind, you know, Berkeley art school, kind of like painter, feminist, like, you know, you know, kind of full on in. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

She's great. So she loves you, but like, we're watching it and you're doing your riff on the housewife stuff. And like, I know in my mind that this is really like, you know, more feminist than any, anything anyone's going to do. Who's some sort of self-declared feminist. Like, I you're doing right because it's like a trojan horse like you know you sort of set up this idea this conceit about wanting to be a housewife yeah and then you just blow it up from the inside right by you know being honest about your own sort of um crass and exciting

behavior yeah i mean people like i i joke that I think feminism is the worst thing that ever happened to women. Right. But surely people must understand that I'm joking. Well, and that what is more empowering than performing seven months pregnant? of stand-up and of you know and that there actually is sort of an arc to it yeah like it's not a one-person show but you know there are callbacks and then there was this revelation at the end that's you know that just sort of like it is completely um kind of uh i don't know what it kind of rewrites the whole special in that moment yeah but like it just works on so many levels the shamelessness about being pregnant the you know the conversations that you're having as a pregnant person, and then sort of like just talking about pregnancy as just another bit. And then like all that stuff about housewives,

because, you know, what you envied about them was so fucking, you know, kind of disgusting and beautiful that like, you know, it works on both levels, you know,

like there's something really feminist about it, but there's also something liberating to people that may be living that life. And I think it's empowering for both types of women. Yeah, and I don't... I hang out with a bunch of house moms now because I live in Culver City. There's this park where all the house moms get together.

And I talk to them. Some of them are so fucking funny, dude. And they're so raw about their bodies they're going through some shit every day they're in the trenches yeah hilarious yeah and also like so like so happy to be housewives and i don't judge them at all you know and i think like if that like they're living it they're living the dream if that's what they you know that's also the one thing that's important i think that that you're saying is that it's when women become mothers especially early on yeah you know they lose a good portion of their identity right and and so what

you know what i hear you saying is that like these were all probably like pretty you know a lot of them might have been really radical chicks yeah and then they they sort of this this shift of identity doesn't mean that that personality is gone they just might not know where to engage it yeah well they some some of them engage it with their kids like i knew a mom who just like was like she i think she was probably pretty radical before i just knew her as a mom she didn't believe in having her kids do homework yeah uh cloth diapers those women are hardcore who do the cloth diapers i'm like jesus and then she's still rocking all the armpit hair everything and it's like she's just engaging with her kid going to war with teachers yeah who are they're like why the fuck is your kid not doing homework and you're like encouraging it

you know and i'm like that's awesome you know but you gotta be really that like it's just so weird to me when people have these overarching statements about what it's like to have kids because it's so different it's like do we make any overarching statements about what it's like to have parents every parent is different and every kid is different yeah and you know like it's like breastfeeding which what time is it now because i might have to pump soon 10 after 12 i have to pump jesus i'm long overdue so uh so you don't mind watching this no it'll be very interesting for you okay so basically with like breastfeeding super sensitive yeah too because some women don't have time yeah and they want to go back to work

or maybe they don't have enough milk in their breasts to breastfeed. But like on the west side of Los Angeles, there are these crazy lactivists that make you feel like your daughter's going to turn into a prostitute if you don't breastfeed, you know? Lactivists?

Yes, that's like a thing. And I'm like, you know, I breastfeed, but it's hard. It's like, you'll see now. I have to, you know, do this whole thing in front of you. Do you? See, this is leaning in. Breastfeeding in an interview with Marc Maron. Jesus.

But do you have an electric thing or is it all? Is this just. There's an electric thing and I have a hand pump for when I'm in the car and I'm driving and I just got a release too. Yeah. Pump and drive. Can you pull over? They actually make it for driving or you just use it that way?

Well, I got to go some places sometimes and I can't be late, you know, just do this. Some. Yeah. So. Yeah. So the. Do you want me to walk you through this? Cause I can. Sure. Yeah. So, yeah. So the... Do you want me to walk you through this? Sure.

Yeah, you don't have to try to talk about something else. Okay. You can walk you through this. So I have to wear this bra. Right. See, that has holes in it. Yeah. For these little funnel cups to go through.

Okay, yeah. And so... My mom didn't breastfeed it was not fashionable either yeah it was like yeah okay then i have to see take this off here yeah take the regular bra take the regular bra but that's a nursing bra because it's like pull pull so then i can just have easy access to the baby. Oh, I get it. I get it. And then I have to wear these. So you switch them out.

Switch them out. I have to wear these pads in here. So you don't leak? So that I don't leak all over in public. Then I have to put on this bra. This is what women have to do at work. Yeah. When they go back to work.

Yeah. Up to sometimes like two years. Really? Yeah. Just every three hours and then a lot of women freak out about their milk production going down yeah because when how long do you do the breastfeeding i i'm gonna just do it as long as it i feel like i've been doing it for five months now yeah but i'm trying to you know

if i feel like you know giving her formula and I feel like not doing it anymore because it's too much, then I'll just switch, you know? So you rig up one of those pumps to both boobs? Yeah. So this is both boobs. You get them at the same time. So you do have the electric thing? I do. I have an electric thing and I also have a hand pump, too.

But the electric is nice because they get enhanced free. Then I don't have to... Do you need to plug it in? Or is it... I think that one still has juice in it. Oh, it's battery? Yeah. So you'll see.

Oh, you can't see it up close. But when it starts coming out... Oh, yeah, I could stand up. Yeah. But when you'll see, it's like when it comes out of my nipples, it's quite exciting. It's like the Bellagio fountain. Just different streams of liquid jumping up and over each other yeah see can you hear it yeah you can hear it oh well sorry wtf listeners

yeah how long does uh how long do you do you pump for 10 to 15 minutes okay yeah that's that's exciting yeah so there it is what if you just lift that off the table a minute not that the machine that's better is that better okay yeah i mean when's it gonna happen it's happening it's coming down i think you just can't see it right now. Wait, hold on. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So. Does it pick up speed?

Or is that it? Yeah, it picks up speed. It's called a letdown. Yeah. That's when like, and I can feel it. Like it'll like tingle and then it'll like gush out. No way. Yeah.

Really? Yeah. But you can't. Oh, yeah. Yeah. i see how it's like coming more frequently now oh my god yeah isn't that crazy my body's a food factory oh my god yeah i've never seen it before yeah it's a first yeah it's dedication man yeah when i so i had a c-section yeah and in the hospital i had hospital, when I was breastfeeding, I was still recovering from my body being sliced open and then had her chewing on my nipples. Yeah. And it was rough, dude.

Yeah. And I didn't know how to do it correctly. I was bleeding. It's a big learning curve, I guess. Big learning curve. Raw dog. You were bleeding? Bleeding. And she was like, poor baby girl Big learning curve. Raw dog. You were bleeding? Bleeding.

And she was like, poor baby girl was like spitting up blood. Why were you bleeding? Because I was breastfeeding incorrectly. Really? I thought the baby's just supposed to suck on your nipple like a straw. Yeah. But you have to get them to latch on. It's a whole thing.

I never took a class. I should have taken a class. Yeah. I didn't read any parenting books. No? No. And what's your husband do in all this? My husband, I mean...

Was he supportive? Were you like, I'm fucking, this is hard. And he was like, we'll have to be all right. Yeah, he was like, we'll be all right. But they can't do anything. I mean, it still blows my mind that a woman goes through all of this. Yeah. So involved with her body.

Yeah. And zero happens to a man's body. You resentful? Yeah. I'm a little bit resentful. I mean, even now, you know, where it's like, I, the boob is powerful. It's like the only thing that will, you know, that will soothe her if she's hungry or something, or if she's like fussy.

Yeah. And I'm the only one who can do it. And she doesn't need, she doesn't need his body or if she's like fussy. And I'm the only one who can do it. And she doesn't need his body like she needs my body. Right. And I thought it was, I didn't understand how involved breastfeeding was. For nine months, I was her house. And I couldn't drink and eat tuna fish and do all this stuff. Or like do shrooms or ayahuasca anymore.

And now that I'm like breastfeeding, I'm her refrigerator and I still can't drink or do ayahuasca or any of this stuff anymore. It's like your body is still so involved. But are you getting joy out of it? A lot of joy. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, that part is really true. Yeah. She's great. and she makes me laugh hard like when you become a comic that doesn't laugh out loud yeah i can't as much anymore like she's the one of the her and my husband are like and my friends are the only who aren't in comedy are the only things that make me laugh yeah hysterically yeah yeah yeah she's funny she's sweet and like you know all that when people are like, don't you, aren't you going to miss

doing all the stuff you're able to do? I'm like, yeah, but I get to do other stuff now. Right. You know? Well, you have a good attitude about it. Yeah. I mean, it helps too that all my best friends got pregnant at the same time. So we have like a nice tribe, a nice little Kula going on.

Did you always knew that you were going to do that like was there ever a point in comedy like before these other women comics or whoever was advising you not to have kids was there were you always going to have kids yeah i always had like i grew up in a big family yeah and so you think you're gonna have more yeah i want to have it like i want to try to have three yeah i think I think, yeah. I grew up in a big family, and also I grew up with old parents. Yeah. And so I always knew that they were, you know, when you grow up with, like, old parents, you kind of never feel protected, and you're always scared that they're going to die.

But thank God I have my siblings. And so when my dad passed away, I can't imagine going through that and still going through that without any one of my siblings. Yeah. And I don't want my daughter to be alone scared of that yeah well i just want her to grow up with like how i did because it was so fun growing up with my siblings i had one it was good it was enough yeah yeah but three is about right yeah i mean you know then there's a little diversity yeah age separation so like what i noticed about the special the special is that you really can do a, like, almost

like a companion special, like within a year. Yeah, I want to. About childbirth. Yeah. Because, like, you were just speculating about it. Right. And you were speculating about all this stuff and based on what you heard. And it seems like the childbirth experience that you had was not as bad in the same way as you were describing in the special.

Yeah. Like you didn't have to go through prolonged labor? Were you always planned a cesarean? No. Was that? I tried to go for vaginal and I was having contractions for 24 hours. And then I was like, I give up. Oh, really?

Yeah. And they were like, keep going. I was like, hell to the nah. and they were like keep going i was like hell to the nah cut that shit out cut it out like dave coulier said cut it out and then uh but this you know c-section's no joke it's real surgery and then the anesthesiologist missed on my back like 10 times because she was like your spine is twisted i was like your medical education must be twisted because you i see all these bloody tissues around me i was like sobbing

she was like are you crying i was like yes i'm crying because you're stabbing my back with this needle like 10 times and before and your dad was an anesthesiologist my dad was an anesthesiologist and i was like he would have nailed it he would have nailed it that's what my mom said too that was the first thing she said right she's like your dad would have nailed it um but yeah and then like when my husband came in the room i had been sobbing my my whole body was shaking i don't know why i was freezing uncomfortable and i had like you know a shower cap on and like and it just felt and i was in like this cold room and I was like, we're never having kids again. And I was like, this is it.

And then as soon as she came out and I saw her, I was like, let's do it again. Really? Yeah. It's that powerful. It's like, you know, I mean, I've done ayahuasca, but like a kid is like, it's powerful. So you're saying it's better than ayahuasca? Oh, way better. Oh, good.

Yeah. At least you have your priorities in the right place. Well, let's go back around to that, to that, like, when did better than ayahuasca? Oh, way better. Oh, good. Yeah. At least you have your priorities in the right place. Well, let's go back around to that. To that, like, when did you do ayahuasca? Like, how did your husband get involved with that? Because you talk in the special a little bit about being a little bit, not hippie, but, you know, kind of, I don't know what you'd call it now, but it's kind of hippie shit. Yeah, it's like new age stuff. But now everybody does ayahuasca.

I know, it seems to be popular. He did it when, like when not everybody was doing it. Yeah. And we went to Mexico, and I thought it was going to be like all these- I talked to one other person about this, Simon Amstel. Oh. Yeah. We went with all of these, I thought it was going to be all of these hippie white people

with dreadlocks from Portland from like portland and seattle or something and it was all uh mexican women dealing with like you know it's like personal stuff like divorce you know their kids getting into trouble or relatives it was like it was really really interesting yeah and um and it was hard like the first you we did it two nights yeah the first time and the first night i just like threw up and it was scary and i had diarrhea because that's what happened they call it purging yeah um and then at the time i had like this really bad bad, like I had rosacea. I had like really bad skin on my face. And I didn't know why.

And then this shaman there told me that your skin reflection is, your skin is a reflection of your lack of self-esteem. And your body is punishing you for thinking that you're ugly. Yeah, it was really weird. And then I. Did that fit? Yeah, it did. Because like for some reason i was like in new york and i was like eating pizza and getting fat and i had bad skin and i was like

i was feeling like really ugly yeah and and then that and then um i did it and i had this like in my journey gosh i think i went on this journey where like so you do it three times before like you did it the first night you're supposed to do it three nights before, like you did it the first night? You're supposed to do it three nights, but we missed our flight and we didn't make it the first night. Right. But the first, so we only did it twice the first time. And the first night was like bad and I didn't have a good experience. Yeah. And the second night I went on this like beautiful journey where like I met myself.

Yeah. Like, like, like a, you know, how you dream, but you don't see like yourself. Right. You just see other people. Right. I literally met like a double of myself and we went on this like romantic date and we had fun and we were like fucking in a barn like i like literally like i ate yourself yes like i ate my pussy you ate your own yes and it was like super fun laughing hysterically and then i was like i'm fun i'm

beautiful i'm like i want to eat my pussy and it was like a show'm fun. I'm beautiful. I'm like, I want to eat my pussy. And it was like a show don't tell thing. You know, like people can tell you like, you're beautiful. What are you talking about? You're skinny. And that you're skinny. You're great. You're like, you're amazing.

But I experienced myself being fun. And it was great. And it changed your life? I mean, it changed, like, yeah, what I needed for that. Your perception of yourself? And then when my dad died, you know, I had, like, a really hard time with that

as people do when their parents die. And, you know, I was able... Was it a surprise? I mean, was he sick? It was a surprise, yeah. He was sick, but it was a surprise still. And it was, like, really hard. It was not, like, a beautiful thing yeah you know

the journey like i really i felt this is the second time you did it this was maybe the the second or third time i did it in a different location like in santa cruz and i felt i felt him suffering yeah and i was like you know made a little bit more peace with him passing because I felt like, I felt it and I threw up and it was really hard. So it forced you into like a sort of fragile state of deep empathy for his suffering. Yeah. And it was able to temper the grief a bit.

Yeah. Your loss, you know, you were able to frame it differently in knowing that, you know, it was bit. Yeah. Your loss, you know, you were able to frame it differently in knowing that, you know, it was time. Yeah. In a way. And I felt suffering

like from my mom too. Like, and I felt like, I was like lying down in the, what do you call it? What do you, the yurt.

The yurt. You're in the yurt. Sure. And I was lying down in the yurt and I just, cause I couldn't sit up anymore cause I could just feel all this pressure on my shoulders.

And like, it was like suffering. And I was like, oh, this is like a fraction of what my dad felt because he was sick. What did he have? He had cancer and he couldn't deal with it anymore. You know? And then for my mom as the caretaker, it was tough. Did he like take his own life? He was depressed.

I mean, he was like life he was depressed i mean he was like he was sick he was he had cancer and he was he was he was depressed terminal yeah yeah so he he had cancer and he was sick so yeah and you know i mean i i think that was that's probably still like the worst thing that's ever happened to me is my dad passing. Yeah. In the ayahuasca thing, how do you manage your emotions? Is there a guide there? I mean, was there a point where you thought you'd get lost or is it like a trip? There is like a shaman to guide the whole thing, but the whole point is you're supposed

to go through it yourself. And you don't want people like rubbing your back. Yeah. You don't want people like talking to you and touching you. Yeah. Like whatever's happening to you, even if like you're screaming. Yeah. And like seeing demons or whatever, like there's a reason why you're supposed to go through

it. So. And did you talk about this stuff with your husband after and shit? seeing demons or whatever like there's a reason why you're supposed to go through it so and did you talk about this stuff with your husband after and shit um yeah of course he doesn't always like to talk about what happened and he's a little bit more private about it because i think then maybe it sort of colors what the journey actually was where you put it in a frame right but i don't mind so you see this as a practical therapeutic thing to do a couple times a year yeah like i the journey actually was where I put it in a frame. Right. But I don't mind. So you see this as a practical therapeutic thing to do a couple of times a year. Yeah. Like I said, it's like a show don't tell thing because, you know, people can tell you like,

you know, your dad was sick, he was suffering and he led a good life. Yeah. But I saw all of that and people told me that and i couldn't hear it right but once i saw all that i was able to like deal with it a little bit better like it would i don't now i don't i had a miscarriage and i don't uh think about it that much you talk about in the special i do talk about in the special and that's another thing that you sort of like unpacked in terms of like there's a lot of things in the special that you know from the mundane to you know the sort of like unpacked in terms of, like there's a lot of things in the special that, you know, from the mundane to, you know,

the sort of intense that, you know, are shame triggers for a lot of women. Right. And you just fucking unload them. Yeah, I wish women would be, didn't have to feel so ashamed about it because, you know, a lot of, the wrong question. It's a great joke though.

Thank you. The wrong question to ask a woman who's had a miscarriage is why yeah i mean what kind of question is that you know and some people even like said to me like oh is it because you know you were too active and like performing a lot or like and it's like they want to shame you it's literally that's shaming yeah or they just want to find a reason why and it's like with miscarriages it's so common and if women knew how common it was they wouldn't blame themselves yeah so much and be so secretive right about it right no yeah but i and unfortunately you know i i talked about it even uh and i and people felt uncomfortable with it because I think people usually only talk about the fact

they had a miscarriage after they have a full-term pregnancy. But I had told people early on that I was pregnant week four, which you're not supposed to do. Right, right. And then I was like, I don't understand why people keep it a secret. And then I was like, oh. This is why. Now I understand why people keep it a secret.

Because you don't want to deal with people asking you why. You know? Okay, now we're ending the pumping. You see? Oh, yeah. How do you know it's done? They didn't fill up all the way. It's 15 minutes.

Oh. No, I mean, she doesn't need it to fill up all the way. Some women have it fill up all the way. Yeah. That's a lot. Yeah. This is like, I mean, this is how much she needs like in a feeding. Uh-huh.

And do you have to eat certain things to make milk production or any of that oatmeal's good really there's a tea called mother's milk that's good yeah fenugreek oh yeah that's uh the indian spice yeah um so you were now with the c-section because you talk a lot about you know the uh about the ripping of the vagina. Yes. You were able to avoid that? Yeah, that's all intact. But, you know, I mean, who cares? Yeah.

It's not put to much use these days. So it's like, you know, I mean, when you have a, see, then I got to dab it afterwards. After, you know, like i thought i was gonna die when the anesthesiologist kept missing on my back yeah because it's a spinal tap right yeah i thought i was gonna die or become like paralyzed from her messing up my spine and at that point i was like i do not care just i just want to get the baby out safely first like the mama instinct kicked in real quick yeah like i don't care if i die yeah but just please get her out safely yeah um and so yeah i mean but it's just crazy how your

body like i had i mean i had some friends too who like they they uh labored for like 72 hours and then they still had to have a c-section their pussies straight up look like they showed me afterwards straight up look like two hanging dicks side by side and the hard core yeah the process of giving birth to a baby girl they became a dude two dudes uh-huh yeah and i was like i mean it's just crazy what happens to women's bodies these moms now who i meet are like the funniest most raw women i've ever met that you know yeah talking about their hemorrhoids and stuff. Yeah, yeah. And they're not talking about, like,

they're not hacky talking about hemorrhoids. Right. Because we've heard the hacky hemorrhoid mom jokes at the park. Right, right. Oh, yeah. Really funny. You judge, you know, you're like,

eh, heard that one. Yeah, heard that one, yeah. You got to get a new angle on that. Yeah. So tell me how long you've been writing television professionally. Like you're on fresh off the boat? Yes, that's been happening for two years.

I'm really good friends with the lead actor, Randall Park. I know him from, we did comedy, like sketch comedy stuff together. And he was like, why don't you come in and write for the show yeah and yeah and how is it you're in the room how many people in the room uh 13 big big but then you know once the season starts going and we lose the showrunner yeah it's

a lot because there's always people on set yeah people you know having to be off on script so you really need and you have to split the room into two to try to break two stories at once. You're working with Jake Kasdan? Yes. Yeah. I don't see him that often. Yeah.

And Lynn Shelton directed a bit. Yes. She's great. She's great. Yeah, I love her. She directed a couple of mine. Yeah. She's so awesome.

Yeah. And the writing, well, Sarah, who watches the show occasionally, my girlfriend, said that the mother character sounds a lot like you. Oh, that's funny. There's like, you know, I mean, yeah, I mean, I write, I do, I, you know, I write on the show. And there's like, there's definitely, I would hope, part of me that people can see in the show. It's been great. Like, I didn't ever set out to be a tv writer have you ever done it just for my show just for your

show with tv writing too I think as a stand-up comic you gotta you gotta watch out because it can be it's it's comfortable right and it can be a trap and i was talking to tom papa about it because i think some comics they get into tv writing and that might not be the thing that they set out to do yeah you know but then they fall into it and it gets comfortable and they get into it before they find their own voice right and then it's like you're stuck there and then at when you're like 40 sometimes in tv writing they don't want you anymore because you're too old. And then when you're like 40, sometimes in TV writing, they don't want you anymore because you're too old. And then they can't,

they try to come back to stand up and it's too hard, you know? Right, you know, like I don't get the sense, I haven't gotten the sense too many times that they're coming back to stand up to actually start making money as a stand up. Because like I always framed it like, you know, not everyone's cut out

to fucking live the life of a comic. Right. And when young people ask me about comedy, I'm like, well, if you can write jokes and you want to do comedy, just realize that the jobs that are available to you

are, if you can't cut it as a stand-up, I mean, I don't necessarily wish that on anybody. It takes a unique person to find their voice. Yeah. And some dudes, a lot of the dudes that i started out with they you know they they did comedy they did stand up but they practically like normal human beings realize i ain't gonna be one of the 10 guys that makes money at this right this is gonna be a long hard life but i have this talent yeah so i'm gonna

go into writing yeah so i try to frame it that way yeah like i mean i imagine a lot of them have regret or whatever but who the hell knows if they'd ever find their voice or actually make a living as a comic that could support a family and get their insurance and everything i just think that you know it all it's always been that way you know these guys that do comedy okay yeah you know and maybe even remember them but you know they make they go make the big fucking dollars you know you know writing for shows becoming showrunners becoming producers right you know what i mean it's a whole other trajectory i don't begrudge them like i don't judge them negatively no i don't either and i think like if if they enjoy doing if that's what they wanted to do but i for me personally like i

don't want to like get into it and then lose like well you, you're the real deal. Like you're not, you know, you're rare. You know, there's very few people that respect stand up for stand up really anymore. Yeah. You know, it's a sad thing. And I think that the army of amateurs that, you know, can get stage time in their little corner, you know, sometimes for years have sort of diminished what it means to, to really call yourself a standup comic. Right. There's, there's,

there's not that many of them. Yeah. And you know, and you seem to have that in perspective and you know, I, I hear some of it as self-talk, you know, like,

you know, I'm not going to fucking, you know, I'm not fucking stop. Like you're actually telling yourself as you're telling me. I hope so. But like, something's got to give,

right. Because like, if I'm working during the day at a writing job till like 6 p.m., sometimes like 8 p.m., then it's like- And you run to the store. And I'm doing the run to the store. When am I going to see my kid? You know?

Like something's got to give at some point. And then like I have to, you know, I don't know. I mean, I have to get back into that like uncomfortable, like pure standup zone again too. Yeah, but it comes back pretty quick. And you know, it doesn't seem like, you know, you're at risk of having complete peace of mind anytime soon. Right, yeah. Let's hope not.

But like, I think also that there's a gratitude available to you in that, you know, it's nice to have the job and to have, you know, some security and have the insurance. And like, like you said, like, you know, you don't need to go do B rooms for nobody for a living. Right. Which is a gift. And, you know, you're still compulsive about doing the work and you're going out and doing the work and the special is fucking great.

And, you know, hopefully you'll get a little draw or you find a an angle you know where people want to come see you and recognize you that way so then when you go out on the road it can be sort of a special one night thing not a three night thing and you know what i mean yeah i hope so i want that for you i want i think you deserve it man i i really i i mean i'm not blowing smoke up your ass i don't really do that i've always i've always admired your your your guts and your fucking style and you know the writing is fucking great and you know no one really is doing what you do oh thank you as as a comic like you take you know you really push it you know in a in a great way you know it's smart it's dirty it it means something and and uh you

know i loved it. And I love talking to you. Thanks so much. What do we got to do with that milk now? Oh, I have to put it in the cooler that I put in your freezer. Yeah. All right. You want some ice cream?

Yeah. Okay. That'd be great. Great. I love it. I saw a new thing. I saw a new thing. I experienced a new thing. I don't have children.

I don't have a wife. So the pumping was sort of a big deal for me. And I'm glad you guys were all there with me for that experience. It was... She's a fucking stud, man. Ali Wong's special Baby Cobra premieres on Netflix tomorrow, Friday May 6th. Alright, go to WTFpod.com for all that stuff Watch my show, Marin

on IFC on Wednesdays at 9. If you miss them, you can go to IFC.com Amazon or iTunes Alright? Okay? Okay Whew, man I should rest my voice, right? I should play some guitar or something. Thank you. Boomer lives! new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes

licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Calgary is a city built by innovators. Innovation is in the city's DNA. And it's with this pedigree that bright minds and future thinking problem solvers are tackling some of the world's greatest challenges from right here in Calgary. From cleaner energy, safe and secure food, efficient movement of goods and people, and better health solutions, Calgary's visionaries

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