WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 707 - Natasha Leggero

Episode Date: May 16, 2016

Natasha Leggero is ready to embark on a standup tour with her husband just in time for the premiere of her TV show's second season. Things may be going well now but, as Natasha tells Marc, it wasn't always like that. In fact, a fateful trip to Australia with a mysterious stranger altered her course, and it really could have gone either way. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. What the fuck, buddies? What the fucksters? What's happening? It's Mark Maron. This is WTF. This is my podcast. Welcome.

Have a nice show today. Natasha Leggero, the very funny and charming Natasha Leggero is here. Comedian, actress. I like her. I've always liked her. Don't know why I haven't had her on sooner. She was on a live one a while back. Sometimes it's not intentional you know sometimes you just you forget or gets goes to the back burner and sits there you know as things do a

lot of shit coming in all the time i don't i can't even keep up with my texts it's what you would think the text you i just i forget to respond to text i i don't know what's happening. I think it's some sort of social networking induced PTSD that that, you know if I'm too old or just how much time do I have in a day? I need to have some of my own thoughts and not just connect my brain to a community of random garbage with some good stuff. You know how it goes. You're just attached to this frequency, this vibration, this input that really that really i mean you may think you're working and you may think it's inspiring you to come up with new things but a lot of times it's just a goddamn time suck but that shouldn't be the way it is with the interpersonal relationships

and you know texting is i i just think that when people come at you in their mind they you're not doing anything else maybe you know that's like why didn't you get back to me i i don't know because 900 emails came in after yours and i forgot why didn't you text me back i don't know because there was a few other texts that came in and i just didn't i i have to at the end of the week i have to go through text and go like oh shit i should probably i should probably text my mommy back. Anyways, I'm a little fragmented. I lost a difficult friend a couple of days ago.

And it's weird because I had talked about this. Those of you who listen to this part of the show, I had this situation with this blood on the porch, and there was a puddle of blood here and there and drops of blood. And I thought it was this cat or one of the cats that I feed, one of the ferals. I've only got a few now outside.

But this cat, scaredy cat, who's been coming around for about a decade, I thought he got injured. But then I saw him after that and he was fine. And I thought he was done. and i felt this before about him i've seen him you know on and off for really about 10 years sometimes he disappeared for months weeks one time you know he showed up here bloodied and beat up and there was nothing i could do about it because he was wild. Then he disappeared and I grieved his loss and I've grieved the loss of this cat many times. That's the relationship you have with feral cats is that you know the situation. You understand the relationship.

You're out there in the world, in the wild, dealing with wild world shit and I'm in here wondering if you're going to come back. And when you come back, I'm excited to see you. And I'm inspired by your survival. And I get a sense of your personality, but you only let me so far in. Because you're wild. You're a wild animal. because you're wild.

You're a wild animal. Well, I got a message on my phone Friday morning when I woke up. The woman across the street said she had found the cat that I'd been feeding in the street dead. And she said it didn't look like he got hit really bad

because he was all intact and everything, but he was dead. And that she'd set him on, she'd picked him up, she'd gone out to walk the dogs. And she had put him on the wall next door, on Dennis' wall. And like I jumped out of bed, I didn't know which cat it was, there's a couple. And I walked out there in my bathrobe and I saw the other cat, which I call Scaredy 2. This cat looks just like Scaredy Cat, but much younger and thinner. I don't know where it came from, but it's been coming around erratically. He's walking down the street, and I'm like, fuck, I kind of wanted it to be that guy.

Sadly, because I don't know him. He's a new guy, but my guy's been around forever. So it wasn't him. And then I went to where she said she put the cat and the cow wasn't there, you know. And there was a little blood on the street and stuff. And I didn't know what happened to the cat. This was at 630 in the morning. And now I'm trying to track it. You know, how do I end up, you know, having these cats pass and I don't get the closure of seeing their body?

Like Boomer, I didn't know what happened to Boomer. Whatever. I don't understand it you know dennis saw another puddle of blood down the street and thinks maybe a coyote came and got the body but but he hasn't been here in two days so he's gone and i missed the guy because you know you just get used to these guys you know you you have a relationship with them it's a difficult relationship with pharaohs because you know this could happen and i guess i want a closure maybe maybe it's better i don't maybe these cats they're just these fallen warriors of the great outdoors maybe it's better he's just mythically gone i know it was him but maybe it's better i didn't see the cat maybe it's better I didn't see the cat. Maybe it's better that in my mind,

maybe he's out there. But I know he's not. But you know what I mean. He just enters the mythology. Did you see his body? I did not. Is Morrison really in his grave? I think so, but some people don't think so. So Scaredy Cat has

now entered the mythic. And rest in peace, wild guy. Yeah. So this morning, Scaredy 2 showed up.

Just like that. Fill the shoes. This is what you get. And Scaredy 2 showed up. Just like that. Filled the shoes. This is what you get. I gave that guy a good life. I did what I could. He was definitely a warrior. And he was around a long time.

And now, you know, I've still got Deaf Black Cat under the house. And I've seen a lot of Wildcats come and go. and now i got a new one scaredy the second i don't know if he's gonna be able to live up to scaredy one but uh i was happy to see him this morning thank you everybody for coming out to the steve allen did i already thank you i guess i did what day is today yeah i thanked you on thursday the next um the next performance i guess we're we're skipping a week for some reason but uh i will be there may 24th may 31st june 7th june 14th june 21st june 28th then july 7th i'm at the spokane comedy club all right and that's july 7th and 8th and uh then i'll be oh and 9th too 7th 8th and 9th it's spokane comedy club will be at wise guys in utah july 14th that's in salt lake city and 15th

um where else the comedy club rochester new york september 9th 10th and uh that's it all right you can go to wtfpod.com slash tour for that information so i'm trying to get into jazz that's my new like i've done this many points in time in my life where you're like you know i like jazz but i don't understand it i'd like to understand more so i got like you know i'm reading a book i'm'm reading Ben Ratliff's book about John Coltrane while I'm listening to John Coltrane. I just got this amazing, the complete prestige 10-inch LP collection of Miles Davis. These are all these prestige records before he became Miles Davis. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful fucking box.

There's like 11 records. And, you know know so i'm getting into that i figure if i start at the baseline and i saw that miles movie and i think i told you about a lot of people don't don't like that miles movie but i don't come to it knowing a lot about miles and then once i realized that the movie wasn't really based on a true story as much as it was sort of a meditation on this period of miles's life where he didn't really create anything that it's literally a film riff on that period and it's funny like you know don shield does an amazing job making miles a real character but you know he is the later miles the miles that's

mostly in that movie not young miles in that movie in the flashbacks but the the miles that's mostly in that movie not young miles in that movie in the flashbacks but the the miles that is being depicted in the fictional jazz riff of a film about this period in his life is somewhat of a comic character and done you know beautifully i know a lot of people don't like the movie but uh but i don't know what the hell they expected out of it it's a great performance in a pretty amazing movie but this is my relationship with jazz. I can listen to it, but I think that I would get so much more out of it if I understood it more. Like the bars, you know, what rules are being broken, you know, what makes the chord progression work the way it is, what are the foundations of it. But you know what this requires of me is some research and some homework. Like I'm reading Ratliff's book and i know he's

got other books about it and there's other books to read about jazz but sometimes i just glaze over when it comes to you know uh numbers and and and structures and things like that i mean i can appreciate the music but i think my appreciation would be so much deeper if i just understood it more but then i might go down the jazz rabbit hole and there's a never-ending bunch of records and people i know that i know the classics but i don't know them deep enough i need to get deep i need to get deep with it so i'm into that that's what i'm doing i'm doing a little of that i'll let you know how that goes. It's also helping me with my grief. The jazz is. The lack of closure.

Even though death is closure. I don't know. It lives on in your fucking heart. So let's talk to Natasha Leggero. All right. She's very funny. She's married to Moshe Kasher. She's on tour with him

with Moshe starting next week and going through June. It's called the Honeymoon Tour. You can go to Natasha Leggero dot com to see the tour dates and get tickets. Also, her Comedy Central show, Another Period, returns for its second season next month. I also wanted to tell you to go out and get the new comedy album by our friend Jeff Tate. It's called Jeff Tate Again. And you can get it on iTunes or wherever you get music. Jeff will be on WTF

in a few weeks. But go listen to his album before he's on. He's a funny guy. But me and Natasha, she talks a lot, not a lot, but there's a story about Ari.

And, you know, sometimes there's a familiarity between me and my guests that doesn't translate to you guests that don't uh that doesn't translate to you because you don't know who the fuck we're talking about but in this shitty story it's Ari Shafir so that's not surprising that Ari Shafir is involved in a shitty story and I think he'd be the first to tell you that so when we start talking about Ari that's the Ari all right this is me and Natasha Lizzo. Shogun, a new original series true heart just to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive.

FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Calgary is an opportunity rich city home to innovators, dreamers, disruptors and problem solvers. The city's visionaries are turning heads around the globe

across all sectors each and every day. They embody Calgary's DNA. A city that's innovative, Thank you. Take a closer look at CalgaryEconomicDevelopment.com. You're not going to be mean to me, are you? What do you mean? Why the fuck would I be mean to you, are you? What do you mean? Why the fuck would I be mean to you? Because you never had me on. I never had you on? Yeah. Well, didn't we do a live one?

Weren't you on a live WTF at some point? Oh, that was WTF? Yeah, it was like at UCB. There was nothing personal. Good. I mean, like, I don't have anything against you. Why would you think I would be the mean one? You're the one who's like, better keep this guy at a distance. That's not true.

What do you, no? All right. I mean, I don't know anyone who hasn't done this podcast. Oh, well, you know, I get around everybody. I'd be, no. I'm glad to be here. I'm trying to think when I first met you, you're probably with Ari. And then the next time

i think i met you at this store maybe with him a million years ago then the next time you were living in some expansive estate with duncan remember the estate that's that's my house and that's not an estate it's still your house yeah no it seemed like in my mind it was an estate when it just has a big yard yeah but it has it like you've decorated it so nicely. I have a talent in that way. Yeah, and I felt like this is posh. This is like very thought out. It's all

just a talent. Yeah? Yeah, I can make a place. I used to make my dorm rooms look great. Well, what? Hold on. An estate. It's like a 1,400 square foot house it is yeah i was there one time and i just have this memory of it i'm like wow how are they living here i know and i have a memory of you coming up to me and you're like who's whose deal is this who's living this and i was like what do you mean and you're like i mean what's what's this what's Who's this? And I was like, this is my house. And you're like, oh, yeah, figures.

Or you walked away. Really? Or maybe you didn't say figures. No, I don't sound like I say figures. Because I was sort of like, because there was a time where, like, I don't understand that. My assumption is it's like, where'd she get a million dollars to just buy? Okay, okay. Like, that's how my brain used to work.

But I'm kind of successful. I know you are. And then I knew that. I know you're successful, and I know people can rent houses, they can buy houses, people do all kinds of... What? I know you're successful, but now you're there, now you got another guy. Just, you're good. You're like me.

Just kind of move guys through. Good for you. Well, I married this one. Oh, when did you I married this one. Oh, when did you get married? October. Was that public information? Yeah.

You're a very fashionable couple. He's one of the more fashionable men I know without being gay. Yeah, he has an aesthetic, like, appreciation. He does have an aesthetic. But I remember him when he was, like, all, like, white hip-hop guy wearing hoodies. Me too, and I wasn't attracted to him. No, there was nothing attractive about him. And then he got... He was difficult to be around.

As a comic, even, you're like, this is just making me uncomfortable. He needs to land on something. Well, then he just grew out the sides of his hair. And then I saw that he was cute. Right. Because he would shave the sides, kind of hip hop style. Right, right. Yeah.

I just, I can't. I wasn't. Like the first time I saw him was in San Francisco and he middled for me, I think. And he just seemed so angry. But don't you find we all kind of relax? Like I feel like I used to be so ambitious. I couldn't like, I couldn't be in a room with people who are successful. And like I was just freaking out all the time.

Like you felt smaller than them? Like, I'm not doing well? All the time. Right. Every party just meant I'm failing? Yes. And whenever I'd see a famous person, I'd try to start talking to them. And like, I'm just like you.

And then they would shoo me away. You should see my estate. I mean, having a nice house, just landing in the right situation, though, it kind of made me not as ambitious because I'm like, I want to die here. Right. And also, you find out that you can have nice things, and it's not always about being a movie star, right? Right.

But I don't know. You've been doing comedy a long time right since 2002 so that's like 14 years yeah i remember i would come see you you were inspiring to me when i started you had like a show at the knitting factory you're doing like a one person show oh did i at the when the knitting when they had that knitting factory because i was mishna and i kind of started together. Right, right, exactly. So we would do an open mic every Monday.

Right, that's where I met you with her. And everyone's like, that's Marc Maron's wife. That's Marc Maron's wife. She's not too happy about that now. That's her biggest nightmare. Doesn't she have a baby though? I think she has two. Wow.

I think, I don't know. That's right. I think I met you, like there used to be that open mic in the valley at the B something, like a little coffee shop. I don't know how I did open mics all the time. Well, you wanted it. You're a real comic person. And it's sort of interesting what happened to you was at some point, and I don't always see this, people get funny from when they start.

Some people are like, that's not quite funny yet. That person's getting there. But you were one of those people that all of a sudden just had a whole thing. You know what I mean? You were just a comic doing your jokes and looking cute. And then all of a sudden it's like, she's got a whole point of view and she dresses a certain way. And there's like a production.

But that was always instinctual. Like I just started like that. No, I know, I know. Right. And I think it's great when all that shit comes together. Like I just needed a stage to stand on to like do my thing. Figure out how it all comes together. Right.

Like I remember my instinct when I did my first open mic was to wear like a dress and gloves and I was like, what if I bomb? Right. I can't like bomb in like a hat. Did you though? Well, no, I waited. I waited like two years to ease into it. So you had almost like you knew you wanted to be a certain place,

but you wanted to make sure it wouldn't make you look too stupid? Yeah. Well, because I had just started, but I wanted to, because I had this way of being just from like living in new york and then moving to la and being like what are people this stupid like i just had like a reaction to la uh-huh because i had come from acting school well let's go through that so where'd you where'd you grow up rockford illinois how close is that to chicago an hour and a half oh so it's far it's not a suburb no it's like cheap tricks from there oh that puts it on the map now we know but they're good i mean that's like that's like the took me a long time to get that to like them i was listening

to them last night they're awesome no they are they're so good they are. They're so good. They are. I mean, not like the flame years, but like 75 to like 80, I guess. Yeah, no, it's great power pop. I just didn't like power pop as a young man. Oh, interesting. I was more of a real rock guy. Right. Don't throw that fourth chord in, man. Let's just keep it steady.

Okay. Yeah. So Cheap Tricks and Rockford. Is there a statue? No. No, there's not. But everyone knew that? They're the ones that got out right

but is it rural i don't know where rockford i don't get it's like the second biggest city in illinois oh really yeah so it's like 200 000 people but now there's like shooting like 10 shootings a week it's arrived yeah it's not good horrible i don't even go home you don't and i've made fun of i've made fun of Rockford a lot on TV. Like on the Tonight Show, I made fun of it. And then it got in the paper. And Natasha Leggero is so ungrateful. They like to come after you.

Yeah, they are very mean to me. Pretty funny girls. They haven't got it easy. I mean, they also don't have it hard. But for some reason, the sort of reaction, the kind of predatory press reaction and all those dumb dudes on comment boards. I've seen it. They like to really fucking be hard on women. Yeah, I guess.

So wait, so how big was your family? Two boys and me. Really? I was the oldest. You're the oldest sister? Mm- oldest sister you're like the old sister yeah like i would take care of them really well how how much younger like two years and five years younger five years younger that's a lot and my mom was single you know so i would like oh really take care of the children she was single with all three so she had three and then broke up and then

shit went bad yeah it was bad and then my mom and then shit went bad? Yeah, it was bad. And then my mom had, like one of my brothers was like really bad. What do you mean? You know, like shaved his head, would start barking like a dog. Like he was just like on the, like he came out of the womb like he was in a bar fight. Like he was always bad. Really? Like would make her, just drive her crazy.

He wasn't, he got kicked out of every school. What happened to the dad? I mean. Is he around? Not anymore. No, I mean,

he's alive. Oh, he's alive. Okay. I mean, I remember being like four and my dad with his cleaning being like, see you kid. Oh really?

That dad? Good luck with everything. Yeah. And I was like, bye. That wasn't the day you left though. Yeah. That was when he was like, bye. That wasn't the day he left, though. Yeah, that was when he left. That was it?

Yeah. Oh, my God. But, I mean, don't you think most comics have that kind of love from only one parent? Or they're missing that love? Or they're missing, yeah. I've found that. Not funny people. Like, there's a lot of improvisers who are very loved.

That's a good point. So, you've done some. You're a thinky person. who are very loved that's a good point so you've done some you're a thinky person yeah no that's true that the improvisers learn how to work with other people and they seem well adjusted they say yes and comics say no right yeah but also they like to hang around with everybody oh they love it they're all on stage together let's play it was so fun playing with you they're doing like like energy circles before the show and then you get comics and we're all just like, what the fuck is that?

Don't talk to me. Can we just clear the stage? There's still some props left out there. But that's true. But I love that. I mean, that's why comics are so fun. I feel so lucky I've got to hang out with them for the past decade.

But that's so true about those people. They do seem better adjusted than us, the sketch people. They are. Yeah, they go to pretty good schools usually and they know what they want you know early on and they go through all these different hurdles like i didn't fucking know how to do they get married they're like families they have children that they can deal with yeah i don't know what it is but i do think that yeah absent fathers or absent, emotionally absent parents does seem to be a theme.

Not with everybody. So you never had a relationship with your dad? That was it? I mean, he's, we're, you know, he came, you know, yeah, we talk. Yeah. He's cool. Okay. What?

He's cool. Look, I'm not trying to, you know, dig into. This is a popular podcast, so, you know. Yeah, I understand. You're being diplomatic. No, he'm not trying to dig into- This is a popular podcast, so you know. Yeah, I understand. You're being diplomatic. No, he's a, you know, my mom didn't like him. Yeah, right. So my mom was like-

Right. And she raised us. Right. So when he would come pick us up, I would hide under the bed. Right, your team mom. I get it. There's nothing wrong with that. It's reasonable.

Okay, so what'd your brothers end up doing? My brother, Louis, he lives in a van that he put an address on in Rockford. He's the one that came out fighting? Yeah. Is he all right, though? I mean, no. Well, he's like a talented builder. Yeah.

But I tried to bring him to Thanksgiving last year. Out here? Yeah. And so to meet Moshe's parents. And Moshe's stepfather is a classically trained pianist. And my brother comes in at 12 noon, drunk. He's playing the piano. Moshe's daddy moves him over, tries to start teaching him bad to the bone.

And he doesn't know it. And he's got to drink a case of old Milwaukee every day. Like, you can't drink like Trader Joe's beer or anything that's like, because it hurts his esophagus. Like, he's got, he's figured out a way to like, function drinking a case of beer a day. Sure. Yeah. Yeah.

There's a name for that. But I want to, I mean, but I feel like he needed to be in programs and on medication his whole life, and he never was. So it's just it is what it is. What about the other one? Wait, and by the way, he lives in this van, this trailer, and he's got one TV here that has the internet and then one TV on the other side that has a TV. Right. And he was telling me the story of how he was making ramen because it's in Illinois, so it's freezing. He has a TV. Right. And he just makes, he was telling me the story of how he was making ramen

because it's in Illinois, so it's freezing. He has no heat. So he'll take like a thing of water that's frozen and just be banging it, trying to like thaw out enough to like, I mean, it's just like the way he's living is.

It's a little crazy. Insanity. And does he not want to live another way? Is this a. I guess not. I mean, I don't know. That's, it's close to, way? Is this a, I guess not. I mean, I don't know. That's,

it's close to, I've been to like an addict. So I, I don't, I mean, I don't really talk to him much. Right. But now you're in like you,

you go out with a guy who's a sober person. So you, you're compelled. You've been, you know, but it's different when someone's active, it's a little hard. Yeah.

Active. Yeah. How's the other one? He's a rapper. Really? And he lives little hard. Yeah, active. Yeah, how's the other one? He's a rapper. Really? Mm-hmm. And he lives in LA. Well, Moshe must like that.

Moshe does like hip hop. And how's he doing? How's his rapping going? Well, he writes music for another period, the show I'm doing, so that's good. You brought him in? I brought him in. Because he's really great at making beats.

So he figured out how to do these classical beats or classical music and then use, you know, make them feel hip hop. And what shows this? It's my TV show

called Another Period that I, have you ever heard of it? What this, don't make it awkward. I've seen you on a lot of things. Okay, so it's called Another Period.

It's on Comedy Central. Yeah. Do you not want to hear about it i absolutely do i feel bad it's okay it's and it's on comedy central it's on comedy central it's starring me and ricky lindholm and michael black and david wayne and christina hendrix and that's a good armin weitzman and brian husky beth dover tom lennon's great. Takes place in 1902. It's a fake reality show. Basically, it's like if the Kardashians lived at Downton and we're trying to get famous, but it's 1902, so it's really hard.

Oh, that's funny. And you're working with Michael Ian Black a lot. Oh my God, he's so, he's pretty much the lead. He's our Butler Peepers. And he is just, he's such a brilliant actor that show looks great it's awesome i'm surprised you that concerns me what i don't watch what that i didn't get the trailer know that people like you don't know about the show i don't know anything don't judge by me i i live in this weird vacuum that uh very few things kind of like what pushes

through i have very little time to do anything. And I end up like I watch Better Call Saul. Like that's one that I've been watching. And I forced myself to watch vinyl. Did you watch all of vinyl? I did. It was a little cheesy for me. Yeah, it was not good.

Dice was good in it though. Dice is great. You know I'm on his show too? I do know that. I know a lot of the shows you're on. Have you had Dice on the show? Yes, I have. Okay, because he's fascinating, though. Dice is great. You know I'm on his show, too? I do know that. I know a lot of the shows you're on. Have you had Dice on the show? Yes, I have. Okay, because he's fascinating.

I love Dice. He would tell me the craziest stories. He would say he did Madison Square Garden. That's his favorite story. No, but here's what I didn't understand about it. He sells out Madison Square Garden. He's at the peak of his life. The very next morning, the New York Times was like,

the decline of civilization, and with a picture of his face, and it was just downhill from there. And so it's so hard to imagine that. What's fascinating about him is that he really wanted to be an actor. If you listen to the Dice interview, he got into it because he wanted to be an actor. And then he became this huge comic. you know he's very good actor but he talks about you know returning to madison square garden that's his dream i think is to sell madison square garden out again he is um that's yeah as uh as when he was at his peak i didn't love him as much as i

like him now like i like i'd like to watch him do stand-up now because he's not as the affectation is sort of gone he doesn't do the character as committed and he's just this dude that has very specific way of seeing things and of style i just like listening to him talk about shit oh he's i mean those are the best comics because they have such a unique point of view they're like these rare birds you're like wait this is how you think about things yeah so like i remember we we had to watch this Criss Angel show. Uh-huh. For the first. The magic show?

Yeah. Yeah. It was like one of the episodes. And we were just sitting there hanging out. You and Dice? Yeah. And then this woman comes up. Like, you know, they have to get a woman from the audience.

Yeah. And she comes up and she's pretty. And Dice just goes to me. It's not even on camera. He's like, ugh, with the flats. Why do women have to wear flats? and it's like he was so upset by this because like what women have to be in high heels all the time like that's just how i mean but he's also like he was very giving and you know he's like a very emotional and vulnerable

person he loves his wife and his he's so close to his family yeah i had his kid and i had both of them in he's like one of these weirdly misunderstood people. Because there's a persona, and then there's him, and they're kind of the same. But there's a lot more depth to the him. Oh, he's very deep. Yeah. But he's hilarious. No, he's very funny.

He's very funny intentionally. He's very funny unintentionally. Like his girlfriend, she's mass massaging him and he's like you know i need my back massage your mom needs to massage my back she knows how to work the area you do my feet it's like he's got her whole family giving him massage it like it's a character yes so all right so you grow up your brother's a rapper one lives in a van your mom how did she get by the whole time you guys were growing up? She was like a secretariat, a locksmith. Is she still around?

Yes. And you guys good? Yes. That's nice. So you, what, you go to high school? I was just like, yeah. And then you wanna be an actress, how do you know? Or you wanna be a comic?

Because I was like a child actor. So I was also in theater there. You were. So I was like in the professional theater in Rockford? Because I was like a child actor. So I was also in theater there. You were. So I was like in the professional theater in Rockford. So I was like. How old? Like eight years old. Oh really? Like doing like the Nutcracker and the kid in the community theater plays?

Well it was like called regional theater so it was like half professional actors from Chicago. And then half like you know. Yeah. So I would play like the child in Inherit the Wind and then the child in As You Like It and the child, you know, whatever play they needed a child to run around in. Yeah.

I would do that. Uh-huh. And it would be like 30 performances so I got to miss school. And you loved it. I loved it and I just wanted to like- And you're getting paid? I did not get paid.

Oh. And then- The child doesn't get paid. I think the non-professional, in regional theater at least, how it was worked out there. But then I remember I would see the actors who would come from Chicago and they all looked so poor.

None of them knew how to dress. And I was like, maybe I don't want to be an actor. And then I just loved doing that. And my home life was not fun. And so I just always was like I just need to hurry up and go do that somewhere get out I remember working at a grocery store and just like staring at the clock and just being like when what were you doing when is my life gonna start just working yeah like having a job like what do I put in price tags on shit no like the cashier

oh you're a cashier at the supermarket yeah and I had a paper route. You had a paper route? I mowed lawns. You did? I did everything. But you're tiny. It doesn't matter. With a lawnmower? That was the dumbest one.

Yeah, I guess. Whose lawnmower did you use? I think I had one. The family lawnmower? Maybe I would use the one at the person's house. My mother was very into me working.-huh so to teach you something or you needed money probably both yeah yeah yeah well that's good to have a good work ethic yeah i know actually i think it helped absolutely and so what do rich people do now with their kids like i don't know

it's not easy i mean i listen to judd apatow talk about it on stage i i think that like the tricky thing with that is rich people, they want their kids to have everything, but they also want them to be responsible people. It's a hard thing to do to spoil a kid and also instill something that isn't just blatant entitlement. Right. And then how do you make your kid get a paper route when you're like a multimillionaire? It's so, it must be strange. Well, Judd does this joke about how, you know, I want my kids to learn things, but, you know, I'm not going to sacrifice my comfort to, like, I'm not going to fly coach so they have values. Right. God, I had to pay for my own college. It took me nine years to graduate from college because I had to pay for it.

So I was living in New York eventually. So wait, you go to high school in Rockford? So I went to high school in Rockford. And you acted and stuff and plays? And then I thought I'd get into Juilliard. You did? So I thought if I sent him my picture and my resume. Were you acting in high school?

Yeah. Like I kept doing this theater thing. No comedy though? No comedy. So you're doing theater and you think you're going to get into Juilliard? For my picture. Oh yeah? Was it a headshot or just a picture no it's a headshot and like taken by a local rockford photographer sure and i did that with yale after college i wanted to go to yale graduate school and i thought i'd be cocky and make an impression i sent a strip from a photo booth

wait you thought you'd get into yale just, yeah. Well, I filled out the resume and stuff, but I wanted to be remembered. So I sent in this dumb fucking strip from a photo booth in my cocky little, like, I'm going to do this. And I tanked the audition. Don't you miss being like that? I wish I, that was like. Terrified? No.

Well, no, but also having that much confidence. No, it was just, it was. It's delusional, I guess. Yeah. It wasn't real confidence. Right. It was just like, you know, like I thought I could charm them. Yeah, me too.

Yeah. So what happened? Well, because my dad's a used car salesman too. Is he? And he's charming like that. Sure. And so I thought that, you know. So I think I have some of that.

We all do. Yeah. That's how we get through life as comedians. Yeah, I guess that is. A lot of charm. It is. Sure. That's a lot of it.

So what happened with Juilliard? Oh, I did not get in. But did you go audition? I went and auditioned. Did not even make the short list. But before you graduate, you take a trip to New York to audition? Chicago. I think they didn't.

Because they would go to different cities. Right, right, right. Didn't get in there. And then I auditioned for something. And I got a scholarship to ISU. So I went to Illinois State University for two years, but I hated it so much that I just kept doing study abroad programs. Where'd you go?

So I went to England. So you were at Illinois State, and you signed up for the study abroad. You went to England for a whole semester? Went to England. It was awesome. You seemed kind of groovy England. Yeah, I got a job. I had three jobs there. I worked in a head shop. it was awesome you seem kind of groovy england yeah i like got a job i like i had like three

jobs there like i worked in like a head shop i like worked at a at like a pub so you're in england for like a semester then you come back then i then i i was in illinois and i opened up like backstage and i saw that like stella adler conservatory was was auditioning in chicago and then i was like i need to i need to I need to get out. You knew about her. Yeah. And so I auditioned and I got in and then I moved to New York and my mother was like, don't go to New York. It's going to be terrible.

Something bad's going to happen. And I almost didn't go. And then I went. And then after that, I was like, oh, you shouldn't ever listen to anybody. You should just do your own thing. Well, they're worried about themselves. Right.

She's your mom. She's worried about you. But it's easier for her if you're nearby i guess yeah but i needed to get out of there sure you did so then i then i went to new york and you know what what was the studying like you were with stella adler for two years how long how did it work i went there for two years i say they taught me how to be a working actor in the 1800s like it was like to the back of the auditorium natasha taught two toads who were terribly tight We did like fencing It was just like It was a real conservatory

Yes like we would do like Chekhov And like Shakespeare styles Yeah? You didn't like that? Well I liked it fine but then I moved to LA And I would be like Yeah but it probably served you pretty well to get all that shit in place. It helped me come up with, you know, how I talk.

You had to come up with that? I became more sophisticated, you know, because I don't have like an Illinois accent. No, you had to exercise that, get it out of you? Kind of. What does that sound like? You know, like a Rockford accent. It's just kind of more like that. Like, you know, you got your Aunt Kathy and Tosh. Hey, Tosh. Like my mom, you know, like a Rockford accent. It's just kind of more like that. Like, you know, you got your Aunt Kathy and Tosh.

Hey, Tosh. Like my mom, you know. Is that funny to you? I mean, I reinvented myself, Mark. You like fucking, you just like, so a lot of energy has gone into erasing the past. That's true. That's true.

And I also. You're put together. Right. Well, I also had this, I've had like, I had this encounter with this man who was like older when I was like 22. When I was in New York, I met this guy who was Australian and he was like 42 and I was 22. Wow.

And I gave up my apartment, my rent controlled apartment. That does not sound like an encounter. And I moved up my apartment, my rent control department. That does not sound like an encounter. And I moved to Australia to be with him, but I thought he was like so sophisticated and I got there and he was like a con artist. And so I kind of like, Whoa, back up. So you're in New York. You're being, you're at the conservatory. You're finishing up, I guess. Yes. And you meet this guy. And I'm like, God, these guys are so lame in New York. Like I want someone who knows like what a wine list looks like

and how to read you know like how to read a wine list and like I just wanted someone sophisticated you're just so classic like small city I know

fucking trashy like I want out where's my jet so I meet this guy and he was like he kind of looked like Mick Jagger he had this like

cool striped blazer and he was like really self-spoken where'd you meet him at the bar I worked at the whiskey bar and he was like, he kind of looked like Mick Jagger. He had this like cool striped blazer. And he was like really soft spoken. Where'd you meet him? At the bar I worked at, the whiskey bar. And he was like, I just came back from this new festival called Burning Man. And it was like the first year of Burning Man. And he was like, I'm making a documentary on the information superhighway, which was the internet. Sure.

And then obviously, and then he was like, I do book reviews for the Australian Financial, for the, you know, he did book reviews, he was an intellectual property lawyer. He was like this amazing, like, he just was fascinating to me. Yeah. And so then.

So you like immediately just. I was just like, oh my God, I can't believe I met this person. And then we went, had a few dates. He would like take me to like, what's that hotel

that he always wanted to go to? What's the famous Dorothy Park oh the Algonquin so we'd meet at the Algonquin and oh boy he had your number eat at the Ivy and so then we started this like exchange he went back to Australia and I was like oh my god I'm gonna be with this man yeah and then finally I gave up all my stuff and I went there I was like 22 and then I got there and it was like he like I well I got there. And it was like, he, like I, well, I got there. Because like in my mind, I'm like, we're going to go to literary parties. This is going to be like, because he does book reviews.

And he's a lawyer. And he must be rich. So I get there. And it's like his apartment. First, he picks me up at the airport. And he looks worried. Yeah. You know, because I think he kind of couldn't believe I came.

Like he kind of looked like he hadn't slept. Busted. Yeah. And my friends were like, Natasha, you know, like some of my older friends were like, I've known people like this. I don't think you should go. You know? And I'm like, no, no, I'm going to go.

I'm going to go. They knew it was bullshit? Well, it was just like. Too good to be true. Yeah. Right. And so i get there and we're in this like he picks me up at the airport and he's like you know do you you know

let me make you this he would always he was a gourmet cook so he's like made avocado with caviar and like you know he's always like feeding me caviar when you in new york or when in new york yeah so we get there and i'm like oh and we're gonna start eating caviar yeah and so i get there and it's like this little shack it's like not it's like a it's it's a fine little studio right that he is like an apartment or a house an apartment yeah and he is draped like purple like purple felt all over the walls to try to make it fancy for you yeah and there was like ikea furniture and i was like kind of disoriented and i was like because it was a flight from australia sure i'm just gonna lay down yeah so I laid down and then I woke up to I woke up to the Seinfeld theme

song and I was like and he's like Seinfeld starting and like he like just watched tv all day and so like I was in Australia with this guy who I thought was like my dream man and he was oh my god and so be like and then he'd like john candy movie like he would just want to watch tv and not a not a bad guy is this hurting oh he was a really he was he was really bad no it's hurting me because like i feel bad for like whatever that moment is where you take that trip you're on a plane for 20 hours you're dis. You have all these like sort of princess expectations. And you just walk into something that is so not. Like cowhide print, like, you know,

like an easy chair and like a barrel that we'd eat on. He must've just been like leveled. I was pretty freaked out. And then it like started, like, I couldn't answer the phones. Like he was like, he had some weird, he was getting money from other women and he was like he had some weird he was getting money from other women and he was just like a crazy person but what's interesting about him

why i talk about him right now is because like i feel like i kind of stole some of my persona from him because we were poor but he was like the most pretentious person like we would be on so you stayed there you you i stayed there for like eight months and then brought him back to New York with me. I don't get this. Because I kind of fell in love with him, I guess. Because what was actually what should have been just like this whole bunch of like, fuck you, red flags. Once you got there, you were like, I can learn from this guy. Yeah, I thought I could learn from him. And you liked his, like he probably treated you really good.

I thought I could learn from him. And you liked his, like he probably treated you really good. And then once he got you into his mindset, you're like, we can fucking, you know, we can pull some shit off. Right. We can conquer the world. But like the signs were like every day. We would get into like three fights a day. Like he would be like, don't use that.

That's not the knife you use to butter the bread. Like he would get really mad at me for stuff like that. In his studio with purple curtains. Yes, and he would be like, I'd bring him his coffee in the morning and he'd be like, how can you expect me to look at that much liquid this early in the morning? It's too full. Like everything was like,

because I think I was like, I had like Stockholm syndrome or something. Pretty quick, it sounds like. Yeah, like immediately. And then we didn't have any money. So I would like, he's like, well, you know, then we didn't have any money so i would like he's like well you know then all because i was like i thought you were a book reviewer and then i'd see him reading the wan ads and i'd be like he'd be like well we need some money wiener he

called me wiener he's like we need some money he's like you need to go out and get a job so i like got this waitressing job and he would sit there and stare at me while i would wait tables and then they like fired me and then i got a job like at a brothel like answering phones for like a day and then he got really mad because you're working at a brothel and like when we take the money like it would be like you know thirty dollars or whatever sixty dollars and then we'd spend it all on like champagne and like picnic food and then we go for like he's like we have to walk this way because the roses will be will be blowing the eastern winds are right now so that if we walked up this street even though it's longer

we'll get the you know the smell of the roses so you're still buying his bullshit you're like 22 you're in a different country yeah and you're way far from rockford oh i'm i mean and from anything oh and then you know the internet wasn't that big then so it's like I couldn't I didn't have like my own computer or you never felt scared oh I was scared at one point he would always leave and then at one point and I'd be in his house so I started like digging through his shit yeah because I was like what's happening here I know something's wrong I remember like getting on my hands and knees I was like god please give me a sign and then the phone rang and he's like we know I need you to take because I then the phone rings. And he's like, I need you to take, because I was supposed to go to university.

He's like, I need you to take your university money and put it in the mailbox. And I'm like, why? That's my money. That's $1,200. He's like,

just do as I say. So I get down there and there's this girl bawling and she's like, give me that money. And I'm like, what? I thought it was for Alex.

And she's like, no, he needs to pay for my abortion. Like she's like no he's he's uh he needs to pay for my abortion like he was like fucking other girls there I mean he was like he was a psychopath sociopath sociopath I think he had like yeah some kind of he was like anti-social personality disorder maybe it's so hard for me to hear this story because like you know I've only I've heard one or two stories like it where you know for some reason you're paralyzed to take care of yourself to get out even though like there's no way that this can end well or it's good and you're being treated badly and but what

were you thinking why why do you why do you? And what finally happened to get you out of there? Well, I don't think I was fully formed yet. Right, 22. Right. So I was like, I mean, he used to work with the Aboriginals. And so he would like. He really did? He said he did.

So he was like, I used to cut their hair. So, you know, he'd give me haircuts and I would change my hair color. Like, I just didn't know. And I remember the reason why I came. Before, when we were in New York, he was really good at this. This is how they lie. Because I remember. Who's they?

Sociopaths? Yeah. Condon? Yeah. We were on a date at someone's house. And they were playing Neil Young. And I was like, oh, I love Neil Young. And I was like, my favorite Neil Young album is Hawks and Doves.

And he's like, you know hawks and doves and i was like yeah and i was then you know in my head in new york i was like i have to move there this man knows my favorite album and then i remember once when i got back to when i was in australia i was looking through his music and i was like what about you have hawks and doves i feel like reading that he's like or listening to that he's like what's that and i'm like you know that out and so it's like he would lie in the moment and like like now you wouldn't fall for it but like he's just trying to con you right there so there's like a million he's doing everything he can to tell to make you feel like you know him yeah but he was such a

unique person and very funny like he was you know we'd be on the bus and he would be like you know just excuse me driver like he would act like we were in a lim'd be on the bus and he would be like, you know, just excuse me, driver. Like he would act like we were in a limo, like on the bus. Like he just had this and everyone hated him in Australia. People were like, who is this guy? Like people were worried about me. You could just see like strangers were like, are you okay? But he'd be like, excuse me, is this, is this bus going to, you know, blah, blah, blah driver. And then the bus driver, I remember this bus driver was like, read the sign.

And Alex would, he'd flip his scarf and he'd be like, are you assuming, sir, blah, driver. And then the bus driver, I remember this bus driver was like, read the sign. And Alex would, he would flip his scarf and he'd be like, are you assuming, sir, that I can read? Like he would say these crazy things to people. So you're in Australia

with a lunatic. A lunatic. And we would go on picnics all the time. But how abusive did it get? It wasn't physically abusive. He just yelled and he was just,

but you must have, you must have loved him somehow. Yeah, because then I asked my mom. I told my mom I needed $2,000 for a plane ticket back. And then it was only like 800 and then I paid for him to go back with me. And then we moved back to New York. Did you ever address this insane codependent behavior

in any way? Is that codependent behavior in any way like did you have like how do you is that codependent what giving a guy this girl crying girlfriend when you're living with oh you're right you're right you know he talked me but he taught getting it 1200 more dollars oh that's what he would say he would say he would do this technique or he would be like i'd be like not that it was the wrong thing to help the girl out but it was not your responsibility to give her my university money. That's crazy.

I know. And I would say, did you have sex with her? And he would just say, I was with no one. And I'd be like, no, but were you? Did you do it? And he would just keep repeating, I was with no one. And I think that's like a tactic that people like con artists use. I forget it's called something, but it's like, you just keep repeating something until the person.

It's called lying. Oh my God. But it really changed me. And so I feel like. How? I mean, I think it just like, just meeting someone who went through the world like that. I'd never, I think I just sort of. But wait, so how does this story end, man?

I mean, it's got so many, so many parts to it. So you're. Oh, and then one time we were at the store and I saw him stealing potatoes. He would steal things and I'd be like, I'd be like, Alex, you can't steal. He would just steal shit. So this was sort of exciting.

Yeah, kind. I mean, yes. Yeah, and we had good sex, but we would fight all the time. But I thought he was so smart. He was the smartest person. You thought? I mean, he was very smart. He was the smartest person. You thought? I mean, he was very smart.

But did you start doing cons? Not with him, no. It was more me because I'm like, you know, I was raised really well. I would be like, we have to pay for this. Like he'd try to like dine and dash. So you're not acting at all. You're just acting in response to this. No, I'm cleaning house.

And I'm like going through a shit. Like he always told me his dad was a doctor. Yeah. And then I and his mother was from French royalty. He's like, my mother would have loved you. Your ankles are so small. You know that that's a sign of breeding. Like he was always telling me all these things. Yeah.

But then when I went through his stuff one day, I saw that like his I found his birth certificate. Yeah. but then when I went through his stuff one day, I saw that like his, I saw, I found his birth certificate and it said his dad was like a electroplater, which is like a very low factory job. Am I making you uncomfortable? Have you done this to women?

Never. I mean, I, I think we all have our bullshit, but this is like, this is a full, like it just, it's fascinating to me that,

like I said, I've heard this like a couple of times before, maybe not on this show, but I know another woman who went through something similar. But it is sort of like Stockholm Syndrome. But there must have been enough... Good, right? Not good, but being emotionally engaged and having good sex and fighting and actually being kind of in awe of somebody, even if they're out of their mind, is something.

Hey, it's better than being bored. That's right. But how did it end? You both came back to the States on your mom's dime. Well, not only that, we took like a crazy vacation. He was like, I'm not traveling all the way back to America without going to the Lakes District in England. He was like, we went to Thailand with my mom's money.

I ended up paying her back. We went to, and he was just, he had such a feeling that he should have everything. You know, like, and he would, he was so charming. Like he would just ask to be upgraded to first class and people would upgrade us. I don't know how he did it, but he took my mom's money and we went to Koh Samui.

You're impressed with this guy. Well, I've looked him up i can't find him anymore oh really well now he's probably curiosity right yeah you don't even know if it was his real name right right but you look at his birth certificate so you must have been able to confirm that you couldn't find him anymore huh no his name was his name was alex should i say his name his name was alex preudite and he would always say it was, Preadite means spoken prayer. Like everything he said was like that. You love this guy.

You love this bullshit artist. Well, he was just so funny. I don't know. Like I never heard of someone saying that you had to like, you know, take a certain route so you could smell the roses. No, it's sweet in a way. You were able to forgive all this insanity. I'm glad that he just kind of took you for a ride, like for a little bit of money in retrospect.

Not much money. And didn't hurt you too badly. And he always told me he had never been in love. And so anyway. You're such a romantic. You really bought it. Like you knew that he was bullshitting, but what he represented.

How could you not? That's what I, but but what he represented not that's what yeah but like but he represented like you had something in common you both wanted to be that right it just i didn't know i wanted to be that until i met him and i was like oh you know but no but i mean you like you bought like his lie was sort of enchanting to you you're like this is it and then even when you got there and you realized it was a lie but he still sort of enchanting to you. You're like, this is it. And then even when you got there and you realized it was a lie, but he still sort of committed to behaving like that. And you're like, that's pretty good, right? Yeah.

But the problem, yes. But the problem was when you're lying at that level every day, you're telling someone lies, you get mad for no reason. Right. You don't know where you are in a way yes like i remember i was wearing these shoes once when we were in london on our way back and he was like why are you wearing those in the daytime and he got so mad and like you know wouldn't talk to me and he was just like he was so crazy but like we would just and then for me i was always like

begging him to like not be mad oh my god it was really sad really sad. But anyway, so we get back to New York. It lasted. We had no place to stay, no money. I lost my waitressing job, you know, everything. So then we stayed with this girl, Danisha, this like Dominican girl and her family and her grandmother in Queens. How did that, how?

I mean, we would just like spend the night in this. We just lived there. But how did you find them? Oh, cause I used to waitress with her before I left. So we were living in deep Queens. And then he just left me for this girl in Brooklyn who had an inheritance. And I found out he said to her he had never been in love. And that was the love that he found.

I mean, because he probably knew he had limited time left with me. Yeah. He shouldn't have had the time he had i know i know can you imagine must have been a pretty long run for that guy oh and then and like he was dressed so cool the first night i saw him and then ever since then he would wear like he dressed terribly he would wear those like bill cosby sweaters and like fanny packs and i still like was into him you it's like you wanted to believe something yes i don't know but then i think you know it took me like like two or three years to recover in new

york and then i just sort of like he just always kind of was an influence in my head i think still is you get pretty worked up talking about him it seemed like a pretty exciting time in some way well it's so i haven't thought about in a while and then i was thinking about it the other day and it was i kind of forgot a lot of it well it feels like somehow or another like not in a like like I like that you don't perceive yourself as a victim necessarily and you still find all the good things in the humor and the whole thing oh yeah I'm so glad it happened to me because what if it happened to me at 35 like then your life's over well right but right like just to get that out of your system to like

move to another continent for love yeah you might as well do that when you're 20 to have such an extreme experience with such a lunatic uh yeah and not and not have it get so abusive or destructive that you know you don't really recover from it because it sounds like you maintained some sort of romantic idea through all of it and what like was the recovery when you say it took you two or three years to recover was that because you felt like you'd been fucked over or just brokenhearted were you sitting there going like what was i doing or were you like i'm sad that he went with somebody else i think i think both yeah yeah i think i was in i somehow was in love with him yeah i don't know i don't know what fantasy he

fulfilled i mean i well like you said lunatics are exciting alcoholics are exciting drug addicts I somehow was in love with him. I don't know. I don't know what fantasy he fulfilled. I mean, I. Well, like you said, lunatics are exciting. Alcoholics are exciting. Drug addicts are exciting. I mean, I don't know what, you know, outside of what you grew up with. But like people, like my dad's a bit of a nut. Like if you grow up with that, with that sort of chaos in your life, it's very engaging. I've heard you talk about your dad like it's like a rollercoaster.

Yeah. And it's engaging in a way that you don't have to deal with your own shit. Like, you know, when you're with somebody that's high maintenance and entertaining, you don't ever have to think about yourself almost at all. Yeah, I think I'm very attracted to that. And I'm lucky that I'm not, like, that's not who you want to settle with, though. No, but also somehow or another you you have enough fortitude because you're a very defined character and you have a personality you don't like i look at you

and i and i'm i'm not sitting here going like who is this poor girl but like you know you you obviously were like my mother's a little like that where it's almost easier for you to maintain your integrity when you just have to fucking manage a lunatic. Right. You know what I mean? Because all you have to do with them is go, stop. Okay. Can we not do this right now? Oh, here we go.

And there's no conversation about you. So you actually are protected in some fucked up way. But when you're dealing with it, you're telling that you're not blindsided by it. Right. It becomes easy because they're so selfish. they're so selfish right that's what it is i guess yeah it's like you just you don't you don't really you're just some sort of thing they work through you know they're you they use you it's it's a using but if it's not horrendously abusive, you know, it can be easier, you know, than dealing with your own shit, I guess.

But you're also very young. Do I really seem like I'm excited by it? I was just getting worked up thinking about it, I guess. I'm definitely not like. No, no, no, no. Reminiscing. No, you were definitely reminiscing. Well, I guess.

I mean, it's just so it seems. It's a great story. It doesn't seem like my life. But you survived it seems it's a great story it doesn't seem like my life but you survived it and it's an amazing experience and you probably learned a lot and i think that like it seems to me that just in in sort of defining who you were and certainly the character that you've become on stage and you know what interests you this kind of like class yes like he would never say we were out of money. He'd say, we need to raise money. Real piece of work, this guy.

We need to raise money. And so, and raising money would be selling the furniture. So we had to like raise money to pay for like eating. I think it's really charming because I think this guy might have been like really one of the biggest influences in your life. And my mom, he even met my mom and he kind of hoodwinked my mother too. He just had, some people just have something. Sure, it sounds like you guys are like real charmers. I guess, yeah.

So okay, so when do you start working on your shit? Oh, so then I moved, So I stayed in New York. Great story. And I'm glad it didn't end horribly other than just sort of sadly. Yeah, yeah. But you just tried to find him, huh? No. I mean, I've Googled him before just to see.

Yeah. I'm sure he's in Hong Kong with some woman doing... I don't know. You think he's still got his tricks together I mean like you said he's got to be almost 70 actually he he was a chain smoker though he would roll his own cigarettes and like drink wine every and he wasn't alcoholic but I bet he's like dead so well you'll probably find out although one time this guy called me for this interview and I talked to him for like 40 minutes and I was like I think this is him really he sounded just like him and he was and then he started veering off uh-huh asking me

really weird questions but I don't know uh-huh anyway so then I I you know lived in New York for a couple more years and then I think 9-11 happened and I was like I was like living in Harlem in like a windowless and you weren't? No. I was like trying to get a commercial agent. I was like five years into trying to get a commercial agent. Just working? Just waitressing and like no clue how anything works. That's why when I look at people who have careers by the time they're 30, I'm like

they must have, a lot of people like I think just knew more, had more information. I had no information. Well I think like a lot of us like comedians for whatever reason, and maybe it's a bad generalization. Maybe I should just say me. It's like you enter the world with this idea of what you want to do, but you have no practical experience of how to live life. Yeah.

Like, you know, like for a long time, I just had no idea. It's like, you know, I'd get a rent of an apartment and, you know, get a futon and they have boxes. You know, like I didn't like I just assumed something would eventually, like somebody would tell me what to do. Like you'd be in a city where things were happening. Yeah, but I didn't know. And I just sort of like, you know, when I started doing comedy, I'm like, that's what I do.

Those guys, I can hang out with these people. And just in that, I wanted to do comedy. And once I figured out that was my goal, which I always wanted to do, that's all I thought about. But I didn't live a normal life. I never lived a normal life. Yeah. And there is no, people who have planned careers, I find disconcerting.

It annoys me, but it makes sense. Most people are like that. They have sort of a plan and goals. Like most 20 year, I know many 20 year olds who want to be a showrunner. I'm like, how do you even know what that is? I don't, I just learned what that was a couple years ago. Like, it's just a different, but yeah, I had no idea how things worked. You wanted to be a movie star.

Yeah, but I also was like, I'll be on a soap opera. I just wanted to be an actress. I remember this woman from a soap opera came into the whiskey bar, and I got down on my knees, and I was like, can you please get my head shot to your director? Like, I just didn't understand. Like, I was so desperate. Yeah. But then I moved to L.A., and then I saw this like i just didn't understand like i was so desperate yeah but then i moved to la and then i saw this and i didn't know you just moved you

just like fucked new york yeah because i was living in harlem in this windowless room and i was like i'm gonna give it you know six more months if i can't get an agent because i knew it was crazy that i couldn't get an agent like it just felt like i just didn't understand like i knew i was talented what were you doing just sending pictures out banging on doors giving your picture to people yeah it was just sad and then i was like i'm gonna move to la and then when i have nothing with no connection here i think i had seven hundred dollars left in an overdraft checking account that was five thousand like chase manhattan gave me like five thousand dollars credit right so it was like i had like negative money yeah and then i moved to la

and then 9-11 happened so i had my apartment in new york in harlem and i was like oh i should just not go back there right so then i just stayed in la and then for two years i just kind of like did nothing you know worked in waitress and stuff and then nothing i didn't know anything about comedy i knew no stand-ups. And then I saw this girl I knew from acting conservatory. She's like, oh, I have a show

at the comedy store. And I always thought she was cool and I just saw her up on... You knew her from New York? Yeah. And she just stood up on stage. I went to her show

at the comedy store. I'd never been there before. In the belly room. In the belly room, yes, of course. The first place I performed to. Yeah. And she was just talking

about her life. Like, I didn't, I thought stand-up was like Jerry Seinfeld with a tie. Like, I didn't, I was just always more into music. I was never into comedy. Right. And so I was like, oh, I could just stand on stage and talk about, you know, what I like about LA,

what I don't like about LA, how I feel, you know. Yeah. And I just tried it and- You were hooked. I just, you know, and I just tried it. And you were hooked. I just, I killed. Like the first time I did it, I killed so, I've still never killed that. I mean, I could not believe people were laughing.

And like, I remember my hairdresser had given me like a Xanax, like half a Xanax, because I was so nervous. So maybe that was part of it, but it just felt like this, the laughter was like, like a wave. Like I felt like it was like coming over me and and there was no like low point in the whole set it was crazy and then you know then i started bombing but but yeah but yeah that was enough to get you in yeah so then you just started like you kind of started to ingrain yourself in

the community of of mics and stuff? Yeah. Now they're called mics. Yeah. I can't even believe I used that word, Pat. Like, it's a word I use. Mics. Yeah.

Open mics. Yeah, I would go out. And then, you know, I started dating that guy Ari, and he had such an amazing work ethic that I was very influenced by him. Like, he was just like, every night you got to go up, you know, eight times a week. So I would keep this calendar and like, you know, he has this thing on his wall that says you're nothing until you bomb a hundred times. And then he would like cross off each, like he still would like, he still has it. Like he'd cross off, you know, how many times he would bomb. And so I was just, I had this idea that you had to work so hard.

That's a good thing to have. Yeah. Like, yeah, he learned it from a towel and people like that. Yeah. Like, you know, the New York style. Yeah. You got to get out there every night somewhere. Yeah, and he's very, like, militant like that, so I think that was helpful just to, like, meet people like that

who are so committed. You really have to run dick jokes as many as possible over and over again to really make sure they work well. Yeah, those guys would be like, what? That's, like, nothing. A hundred times, the joke's nothing and dick jokes as many as possible over and over again to really make sure they work well yeah those guys would be like what that's like nothing a hundred times jokes nothing until you've told it like 200 times it's like what so this is interesting like the theme is is that whatever it is you you certainly seem to learn things from people like you know that that ethic the work ethic of comedy you know i don't know what happened with that relationship or how fucked up that got. Did you guys get married too?

Did we get married too? No, we didn't get married. Oh. I think you crushed him, right? Wasn't that the story? It did not end well. Are you okay now? I wasn't allowed to go to the comedy store for three years.

By who? By him? Oh, I went there yeah and i was sitting there talking to morgan murphy and they were sitting in the corner and he she got up to go to the bathroom and then he came over and like threw a drink on my face and like on my head and was like get out of here this isn't your turf or whatever he said i don't know he's he's apologized since and it's it's a funny thing now I kind of remember this. This was like,

but that was when... And no one helped me. Like, that was annoying. Like, it was just, the comedy store was a little more lawless. Right. And he was,

they were all part of that system. He was like, it was, he lived there, basically. And there was a crew of doormen and up-and-comers that were, you know,

using the comedy store as Mitzi designed it as this cluster fuck of a hate palace for aggravated men to be territorial and uh totally yeah and then so he was honoring the you know he was insulated there and he had his pack kind of yeah but we're we're cool now totally no it's a long time ago but he threw a drink at you yeah what a that's never happened to me before and i remember morgan said that she came out of the bathroom and was like, why does Natasha's ponytail have no volume?

Because I was just like drenched. That's pretty abusive and pretty horrible. Right. But it was, I mean, he would have never physically. But then I was like, oh, I don't know. Someone could throw acid in my face. I don't know. I mean, I was just.

But anyway, I stayed away from there and you just did other open mics yeah there's so much there's and i started going on the road and started headlining but wait that seems like a big jump so when did the tv stuff start happening i mean when did you like you know like you were acting when did you get an agent and stuff oh i mean it all kind of started just happening just happening. It was so cool to experience that after so much heartache and just going nowhere in New York. New York is just like, it feels like a scam.

It was just so hard. There was no group of people. There was no luck. There was no, nothing ever really good happened. Right. There was, but you weren't in it. Oh, right. Yeah.

For me. Like I never kind of got in that. Right. Well, you didn't know what your interests were. You had no idea. There's no acting crew. Right. Exactly.

But now I imagine if you go to New York, there's comics around that know you and you can kind of walk in. Oh, yeah. Like, what's up, you guys? Totally. Because you're like a comedian. You're a real deal now yeah so it was nice to like have you know people taking interest and getting an agent and getting auditions but it seems like like from 2002 are you looking at my wikipedia yeah i'm looking at the resume but like from 2002 you know when he started doing comedy

shit started happening within a few years i I mean, you did Premium Blend, and then you, like, you did a roast? I think I got to, like, quit my, I think it took me four years before I had to quit waitressing. Right. So I was, like, waitressing full-time, and then four years I got to, like, I think I did, like, the Late Late Show, and then I got to host a reality show, and then I didn't have to work anymore. It was still sort of like mostly acting gigs. Some of it. But like, you know, in terms of like getting a headliner, like becoming a headliner, actually having the time to do that, you did seem to do that in the appropriate time, like eight years or so. Yeah, but I, or maybe less.

Like I remember, maybe six years, because I just started, I was constantly on the road, which that's why. Middling and then headlining in certain places. You know, like I remember, you know, the Denver Comedy Works. Sure. Like it's so fun there. Like that's the first place I was, I was so scared and then I was able to do it there. Yeah.

And then I was like, okay, I can do it now. Yeah, yeah. Well, it's a great room. It's a very forgiving room. Oh my God. It's almost too good. I know. Like what's happening? So I'm so glad I got to do that. Yeah. But you did it's almost too good I know what's happening so I'm so glad

I got to do that yeah but you did Last Comic Standing too I was the host you hosted no no no I was a judge

oh you judged yeah because you're a character I mean it was me and Andy and Greg Giraldo oh that's poor Greg

he was so sweet he was so smart so smart I loved him I only got to know him on that show but oh yeah it's so sad were you friends with him yeah He was so smart. So smart. I loved him. I only got to know him on that show. Yeah, it's so sad.

Were you friends with him? Yeah. Yeah, I knew him a long time. I didn't know he was as bad off as he was. I wasn't in New York when it all went downhill, so I had no real sense of... I remember him saying he was living in a studio, and then he was on living in a studio Yeah, and then like he was on the road like Tuesday through Sunday And you know like would get his kids one day a week and yeah

I know like just the spiral of drugs I knew he was trying to clean up and I you know as he got closer to his you know tragic demise I knew he was in real trouble, but he's such a dangerous job Like it's the only job where i'm asked maybe three times if i want to drink before i go on stage every time i'm on the road yeah it's like everyone's so you know it's it's you're expected to drink and people bring you drugs and people bring you pills and yeah people know that i'm. For you, yeah, they don't. But like. Yeah, they bring me cake. Cat toys.

Oh, that's cute though. I get a lot of weed. I get a lot of catnip toys. A lot of weed. But you're so successful. It's so good that you're so good. No, it took a long time. But let's not underestimate the power of Chelsea lately.

Oh, that was very helpful. I mean, that was really, if I'm like looking at this and doing the math on it. Is my star meter going up at Chelsea? No, no. I'm just saying it's a pivotal thing. It was a tremendous showcase. Have you had her on? Yeah.

I went to her house years ago. It was good. She's very funny. She's naturally funny. I know. I think she's great. And very smart. She's constantly reading.

Yeah. No, I think she's great. I think she did an amazing thing. And she really was loyal to a group of writers and comics. Yeah. And really I think she's great. I think she did an amazing thing and she really was loyal to a group of writers and comics and really made a lot of careers for people

and is very good to people. You're right. I was able to start headlining when I started. Right. Because you could draw because it was a very popular show.

Yeah. And they knew you. They knew your personality. They knew what to expect. They knew you were that woman who did that thing. Well, also,

Chelsea was kind of dark. Like, she would, like, make fun of the celebrities that other people on E! would be like. You know, like Mario Lopez is saying how cool everyone is and Chelsea's, like, rolling her eyes. Yeah. And so the people who were attracted to that, you could kind of be dark and, like, say mean things

and people wouldn't get offended. Right. So I think Chelsea helped set the tone a little bit for people to not be so PC and so scared of everything. Yeah. And she loved you, right? Yeah, she totally helped me. And I was on the show all the time.

The problem, it's like you work so hard to get something real happening. And then when you have it, it's like you have no time for anything. No, I know. I just got done shooting and never stopped. are you in the editing bay the entire time i uh well what i do is usually i look at the passes you know i have showrunners that sit with the editors and i look at the director's past and then they we just all chip away at it like i'll go into the bay sometimes

but usually i just look at cuts and make notes for some reason ricky and i are in the editing bay that's good 40 50 hours a week. No, it's good. You're the showrunner though, right? Yeah. And also, when you're trying to find the tone to a show, and also our show's a period piece. Yeah, and you gotta lead the air.

That's the biggest thing about doing comedy when there's no audience, is that you gotta let things land, and you just have to have an instinct for that like you know when somebody delivers something it's like give it a half second because a lot of times editors they're just it's like no just another half second it goes by too fast yeah you do that yeah i mean the problem with our show is it's only 21 minutes so it's like there's always 14 lead characters and i don't really understand how

it's yeah i never really thought about that like a television show has to be an exact amount of time yeah it's like it's not only it's like 21 minutes and 46 seconds and then like two frames like that's how long right and it's like the editing is everything comes out long and then you like really have to you know kind of start cutting it and then do you cut the things that you're sick of are you cutting the best jokes are you cutting you know like there's a story it usually comes down to making sure you honor the story right but then all the funniest stuff sometimes has to wait and then you got to be like well we get you got you the story has to make sense right but then you got to leave like you know you got to make your choices with funny

stuff you know shit has to go sometimes what are you going to do it, you know, you got to make your choices with funny stuff. Shit has to go sometimes. What are you going to do? It's just the nature of the fucking beast, right? So what do people do when they make movies? Does everything gets to stay that they want? Like Judd Apatow,

it's like anything. Clearly with him, anything gets to stay. But it's like. He'll go ahead and let a movie be two and a half hours long. But it's.

Could reasonably be an hour and a half. And he knows that. But he's like, fuck it. I like it all. That sounds so glamorous. Well, yeah, he's got a certain amount of freedom, that guy. And he knows that but he's like fuck it i like it all glamorous well yeah he's got a certain amount of freedom that guy and he's a great guy that's it like he's a rare thing

yeah i like him every time i talk to him yeah he's great now he's doing stand-up and at first we were all like oh fuck avatars gonna just come back to stand up but now you're like guys really working he's great no he's funny it's great it's great it's i think it's hilarious that like this is what he wanted to do he's just picking it back up right he just went out and did everything else successfully and now he wants to get back started with the stand-up again and he's earnest about it i remember zach galifianakis saying i think it was him said like the stand-up's the only thing or once you get successful you don't have to do it anymore yeah zach's right i'm not gonna do it a lot of people think that way i think that way, Zach's like, no, I'm not going to do it.

A lot of people think that way. I think that way in a way. Like, it's certainly, going on the road right now is, like, not fun. I don't know. I just went to Iowa two days ago, and it was, like, four flights. I just went to Iowa, too. Where'd you play? Iowa City? Yeah, Iowa City.

I went to Iowa City. That college? I went to, I was there for the festival and I did it. The Floodwater Festival. They booked me as a headliner of this festival and then they called me

and they're like, just so you know, we also booked Amy Schumer on the same night. That's the worst. So they booked Amy at the arena and then kept me there.

Did you do that little theater? I did a little theater. Yeah. I mean, it was a great show but it wasn't full. Right. And they put us at the same price point. But anyway, so that was Iowa.

It was just the Midwest. It's hard for me to go there. I just did Iowa City. I did Lincoln. I did Kansas City. It was the first time that I really did a Midwest run. It went pretty good. But you're the kind of comic, you can probably do like two hours, right? Yeah. I'm not like that. I'm bored of myself after that amount of time.

I can't. I'm good at 44, 30. I'm off. Right. I get it. It's enough. I know. It probably is.

And when it's going great, I love it. Yeah. But when it's work, it's hard. Yeah. When you got to get them over and over again. I just need to have some time to work on new jokes. Yes, you do. Because that's what'll bring me there.

Oh yeah, I just need one. We'll kind of liven up the whole thing. If you get one big new bit, everything else comes to life. But also, I don't know. For me, stand-up was always what I set out to do. So me doing it is like, it's like the core of who I am.

So like, I don't ever really think like, now I get out of that. You know what I mean? Like I sometimes think like, what the fuck am I going to do now? Like I got to do a new hour. How does that happen?

And I've done like seven. But like I, every time I'm up against it, I'm like, there's no way. That reminds me when Larry David said they wanted them to do like five more Seinfelds after the first season. He's like, there's no way.

I'll never be able to do that. Yeah, exactly. And then you do it. You're up against the wall and you do it. I think it's such a great art form and I feel so lucky to be a part of it. And I want to always do it. Like, I feel like it ages well, too. Like, I feel like as an old lady like no who doesn't

want to be doing that it's like it is the most what i want to be on camera right it's the most forgiving job and show business because it does it is not age relative no it's not age relative and i mean you do have to stay current no no you gotta be good gotta be funny you have to be funny and uh but yeah i want to always do it. It's just getting inspired again. I think you got a shtick that's got legs. It can go on for a while. Even as you get older. Like you could be 60 and still wearing your fun boots.

I don't wear boots so much anymore, Mark. I'm sorry. Well, let's go watch the trailer for another period so I can get up to speed. And then everyone should go watch it. I looked at very little of it and I like it. Thank you. I'm excited about it. And I definitely was not keeping you off the show.

I was just probably nervous. That's all. Or worse, did you just overlook me? No, I love you. I've never had any bad feelings. I've probably had two, I love you. I've never had any bad feelings. I've probably had too good of feelings about you at different points in my life. Okay. I'll take that as a compliment. All right. Well, thank you for doing it. Okay. That was fun. All right. That was me and Natasha Leggero, the lovely Natasha Leggero.

I really love talking to her. Go to WTFpod.com for all your WTF pod needs. Check the tour. Check the merch. Whatever you need. All right? Maybe I'll play a little guitar. I got the dirty old man hooked up. A little 58 Deluxe.

Maybe I'll go straight in. I had to move it across the room so i don't fucking hurt my ears now i'm wearing earplugs too because i'm getting old and my ears are fucked up from headsets and um loud music so let's see if i can get this going Thank you. Boomer lives! So does scaredy. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode

where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, Thank you. means? I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5pm start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson

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