WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 721 - Jeff Goldblum

Episode Date: July 4, 2016

It's not really Independence Day without Jeff Goldblum. Instead of spending the holiday fighting aliens, Jeff sits down with Marc in the garage to discuss Robert Altman, Wes Anderson, Pittsburgh, the Meisner technique, The Fly, Jurassic Park, Carl Sagan, becoming a new father, and saving the world. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Calgary is an opportunity rich city home to innovators, dreamers, disruptors and problem solvers. The city's visionaries are turning heads around the globe across all sectors each and every day. They embody Calgary's DNA.

A city that's innovative, inclusive, and creative. And they're helping put Calgary and our innovation ecosystem on the map as a place where people come to solve some of the world's greatest challenges. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look out at calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com. all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking nice does what the fucksters what's happening i'm mark maron this is my show this is my podcast wtf with, with me, Mark Maron. Thank you for listening. Happy 4th of July.

Keep it happy. Don't lose any digits. Don't get killed in some dumb way. Don't drive all fucked up. Keep alert for those others who are not heeding my advice or didn't necessarily hear it, and they might not know not to drive all fucked up. Try not to eat too much shit that you're going to feel horrible for for too long a time. Don't set fire to anything.

Don't blow up any small animals. All right? Don't go down the slippery moral slope to like, do you think that thing will burn? Can you catch it? Don't do that. Those days are behind you. All right. If you've got really fun fireworks, just be careful with the kids.

You're a grown up. You know, be a careless asshole if you want, but just not when kids are around. If you want to shoot Roman candles at each other because you're all shit face, you're just getting excited because there's things blowing up and light and fire and sounds and it's so fun and you just want to just keep blowing shit up and it's awesome do it but you know just do it as a grown-up only be dangerous with grown-up friends if there are children around limit the danger for them but like if you're just on your own you don't have kids knock yourself out but again don't die in some stupid way years ago i didn't realize that you could uh shoot roman candles at each other it's not on the label it's not recommended i don't even think they're fucking legal in this country to be honest with

you but that doesn't stop anything from happening here right me and nick schwartzen at zach alvin akis's party about over a decade ago down in venice just started fucking shooting roman candles at each other setting shit on fire you know in a controlled way there i'm getting excited just thinking about it i haven't been to a party where there was massive amounts of fireworks. Oh, man. I'm a 52-year-old man, and I'm not really prone to guns or explosions,

but man, if you show up with a bag of shit that lights up and blows up and spins fire and sparks, I am fucking there with the lighter. Happy 4th of July. Think about your freedoms today.

Right? Meditate on that. Think about what they really are. Think about your life. Really ponder the lie you're living out of necessity so you don't walk through the streets terrified and sad. Oh, that's not,. That got away from me. So look. Today, Jeff Goldblum is on the show is a real thrill to talk to him because I really you know, he's one of those guys, no matter how many movies he's been in or whether you really know all his

movies, you know him. He's just one of those people that's been familiar. He's been there for all of us somehow for years. You see him and you're like, there's Jeff Goldblum acting like Jeff Goldblum. And I wanted him to be Jeff Goldblum like immediately. And he delivered. He showed up at my house. He walked in. He's like, oh, OK, this is it, huh?

This is, ah, yeah, the house. Where's the garage? This is, you'll hear it. He Jeff Goldblum's the shit out of this episode. So consistent, so beautiful. Great guy, great actor, and a creative person. I enjoyed seeing him and having him around. I wanted to be around him more.

I would have been fine if he moved in, but he's got a baby. His baby turns one year old today on independence day and his movie independence day resurgence is now in theaters it's out but today's a day and his kid his kid is one year old today the goldblum kid happy birthday to him and we'll talk to jeff in a little while uh my tour dates I you know I keep doing this because I think it's important that I do it because I'm not really I'm not doing the Facebook thing really I'm doing Twitter but the Facebook thing I don't there's something suspect about the whole business Spokane this weekend this Thursday Friday friday and saturday seven eight nine wise guys in salt lake city 14 15

and 16 of july the comedy attic in bloomington the 28th 29th and 30th of july and then we take a little leap to august august 18th and 19th and 20th at stand up live in phoenix i'll be in albuquerque september 3rd for one night at the Albuquerque Journal Theater doing a benefit. I'll be at the Comedy Club in Rochester September 9th and 10th. And those are the dates that are up right now. There will be more. I'm doing club dates

to get my shit straight. To work it out and to engage with the people. So, I told you guys about that kitten. Well, the kitten is being fed and sort of loved over at Sarah's house. And we're going to make the move over here. But we couldn't do it.

I couldn't take the kitten right in because I got two indoor cats. I needed to prepare to integrate a kitten that it turns out is a you know not feral but very lovable and i'm going to now tell you the new kitten's name i will be welcoming buster into my home later today that's a buster the black cat all black cat buster buster buddy buster what's up buster it's good it's good he looks like a buster showed up on my stoop you know vulnerable little cat out of nowhere there's no other kittens around this fucker just finds my goddamn porch all right so it was meant to be but i only got two rooms in my house the second bedroom there's a closet in there all all my records in there, and that means like all of that could be destroyed.

Kittens will destroy everything. It's profound. You don't know how it happens. You've got this little cat, little tiny cat, not much bigger than your hand. You close that door and you're like, okay, see you tomorrow, Buster. See you tomorrow.

Maybe you hear some sounds and you're like, well, what you tomorrow, buster. See you tomorrow. Maybe you hear some sounds, and you're like, what's that? What's going on? The next morning, you wake up. A thousand records are destroyed. All of your shoes are fucked up. The light fixture is dangling. There are things that you didn't know you had still that now you have to throw away.

Kittens will fuck shit up. I know that from experience. so i had to go down to best hardware got to buy some plywood got to get it cut so i made some makeshift protectors of my record shelves i had to get a you had to create dennis and i collaborated on the design of a door uh not stop a blocker the bottom of my old door has a little too much space where the cat could get through so we created out of a two by four ander the bottom of my old door has a little too much space where the cat could get through so we created out of a two by four and a leftover piece of plywood a little thing that you can block that hole with i i measured it he cut the wood he fucking screwed it together

and even threw a coat of spray paint on there so got that all set now i got to get the doorknob fixed because it's missing a thing and uh then we're good to go everything should be kitten proofed and buster can move in so here we go jeff goldblum i you know i'd uh lake bell had put me in touch with him i tried to get him on the show uh for a while we were sort of randomly texting each other here and there and it finally happened and i was very excited to talk to him um i don't i think i forgot to talk to him about music though but but that's all right. I saw him playing. He's a very good piano player, but we had a beautiful conversation. Uh, so why don't we just do that?

Why don't we just listen to me and Jeff Goldblum? And again, Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly host of under the influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified

consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5pm

in Rock City at torontorock.com. Careful. You look great. Do you think so it's a it's so do you it's one of these uh you're one of those guys where i'm like wow he still looks uh great how is you know that's great that he looks so good thank you my friend is that did i say that wrong was that bad no no no it was that's only flattering no and that still part i know what you're talking about that's that's that's just stating the facts you know i've just been i i could look a lot worse yeah given the chronology that's correct but you look at you you look like a a 70s movie star you look like you know young elliot gould from you know yeah oh my god did you did you ever work with ellie cool you know um no no and yes i mean i appeared our paths crossed but we weren't in the same scenes together oh an

altman movie in a couple of altman movies my first altman movie which was my jesus second movie ever after death wish was california split right did you ever see that yeah that's kind of what you look he had kind of a did he have a longer thing i think he had a longer thing and he didn't what did you do in that what did you oh you know i had two scenes where i'm george siegel's boss a kind of a wunderkind uh editor of this magazine yeah called california scene s-e-e-n right right right and he's you know screwing off and gambling that i don't know and i i have a scene where i'm kind of you were like king of the little scenes for a while there yeah i was never king of anything but i was in a couple

little scenes here so we were in that movie together and then he appeared as himself uh in in nashville right and i had a little scene or two in that. You were the guy in the bike, right? I was the guy on the tricycle. Big tricycle. Tricycle man on the big tricycle. With the big goggles on. Exactly. Doing sleight of hand here and there.

Did you know how to do that? I did not. And Robert Altman in this script, you know, it had no magic for this character. But he called me up and said, I was living in New York then, West Village. He said, you know, hey, do you know any sleight of hand? I said, no. He said, well, get together with a coach. We'll find you a coach.

You're in New York. And learn some. Bring a bag full of them down to Nashville when you come down. And maybe we'll put them in some scenes. And I did. When I got there, I showed him my tricks. I worked with this guy, Coe Norton. And he said, okay, okay good i'm not sure

where we'll put him but bring him to the set every time you work and and we'll figure it out and i put him in a bunch of scenes and a couple of made it in and then i discarded all of them but i kept practicing and i can still do my rope tricks yeah a series of you know here's the knot there's not and that does itself yeah uh which i've snuck in a couple of other movies oh really yes i have is it but isn't interesting because like somehow or another he like in in the context of that huge movie hours long dozens of characters your character in my memory reappears quite a bit i do that you know you're just sort of this this presence that that sort of moves through you know different points in the movie but like he was sitting up at night, and you were very specific.

You were on this giant tricycle. You were this clown almost, in a way. Interesting. With the big goggles. No, not in a bad way. There was a comedic presence to it. And he just wakes up one night and goes, that guy needs to be doing tricks.

Like it was a decision. Well, you're right. right his interesting creative i mean i love the creative yeah you know inspiration anyway and he was a an exemplar of a guy who was mysteriously talented and imaginative and unique and self-trustful and uh went with his own ideas but what was it like being on on one of sets? Because you did a couple of his movies. Like, was everybody, did you know where the movie stopped and where real life sort of began? Or was everybody hanging out with each other? Hanging out, exactly.

That's what he, like, you know, recently Wes Anderson, who I think is a fan of his, they like to, and Robert Altman liked to make the shooting an art piece in itself and he called his production company sand castle uh films or something like that because he had a the metaphor of what we're doing is really like we were making sand castles right and and uh you do the moat this time and you do the bridge this time and you do the tower this time and just for the fun of it and of course the water will come in and take it all away but we had a reason to get together just to be together so we sort of make and make something

together just for the fun of it that was a looseness then in a way there were there sure was a looseness but there was a an intended, you know, communality and spirit. And we would, he would, for instance, show the dailies every night and invite everybody. Really? And it was a great, great, yeah. Because he said, you know, that's the movie. Once we pretty it up and cut it up, that's something else. But this is our work.

We all did it equally. Let's all look at our work. Really? Yes. It was delightful. It was like Really? Yes. It was delightful. It was like almost a party. It was a real party. He was a kind of party guy, but very creative.

And in Nashville, we all lived in the same complex. So it was a real summer, you know, hoop-de-doo. And Wes does that too, because Wes, like stylistically, I would say, is almost the polar opposite. Very meticulous. Yeah, it's like every frame is like a jewelry box. That's right. It's been said. That's right.

You ever read that? Oh, yeah. Someone said that, right? Yeah. Well, you know, Michael Chabon. Oh, is he the one who said it? The jewelry box? Well, he makes a very, yes.

He equates him with, who's that guy now who does those boxes? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. An artist? Art boxes. Yeah, I'm forgetting now. But Wes, how controlled is that set? Well, it's controlled. So what got us into this was that they both have the same spirit,

but some of their other elements are very different. Yes, Altman was like a painter that just kind of made it up as he went along, and the painting process produced the painting, and what does it feel like what do i feel like doing now and then just kind of organic very organically kind of reveals itself uh wes has a has drawings and he's written everything and he's drawn out and described the costumes and knows exactly what and um and it's it's all that i could tell you for instance on grand budapest hotel i had a couple big speeches and i'm nothing if not conscientious and i'd practiced them and in one i knew he was meticulous i'd done that you know um life aquatic yeah and uh and i i thought

you know i like a little this the phrasing of this one sentence i'm gonna change this i think it was an and to a but or something like that yeah and and I practiced it and I did and I thought oh here's the way and then I got to the set and and we did I didn't I didn't tell him yeah we did it again he said yeah very good okay let's do it again say Jeff um did you uh I think you changed one that thing that's a yes I did um can I tell you changed one thing. Yes, I did. Can I tell you why? Because it's not just higgledy-piggledy. Here's my reason. He said, uh-huh, uh-huh, very interesting.

Okay, I think do it my way. Do it my way, if you will. Okay, I got you. I will. Like that. So he's very, very mature. But within that, he's somehow Altman-esque in his freedom, somehow an enjoyment of you and somehow collaborative encouragement. But what's the experience as an actor when you're walking into a scene that is so meticulously organized?

Because you bring a certain amount, you know you're you're uniquely yourself there's there's the you know what i mean when you see you or even if you hear your voice right as just jeff goldblum hey like they're always you know you're one of those guys i like to be able to i like to think that i i'm able to characterize of course and drop course some of these uh but your intensity stupid affectations the life frequency that is Goldblum-esque. Well, okay. Stay steady. I accept it. And so when you're working with, what is the thrill then?

Like there must be some excitement, like working with someone like Altman where they're just sort of like, all right, hang out, man. Let's just hang out, which was a part of the time. Yeah. That was culture at that time. But I imagine the excitement of working with someone like Wes is like, this is so organized that it's going to be spectacular. Like it's not all hinging on me it's part of it's hinging on that light like you know like you're like in like yes yeah you feel very well taken care of

and you trust but of course altman in another way uh so that you can kind of do anything and then he'll he'll cut it up into something nice right uh uh but uh but wes in another way you go wow everything is i'm given every help that i uh can uh be given what with my glass glasses and my very thought about hair and goatee and the light and the great cinematographer bob yeoman you know yeah and where did you guys shoot that? We shot that kind of not unlike the experience in Nashville in 1973. We shot it in Görlitz, Germany. He likes to go on these exotic adventures on Life Aquatic.

We were in Rome. We shot at Cinecittà and then in Gore Vidal's villa in the south of Italy. How did that happen? Oh, you know, he knows many sophisticates, you know, in many different layers of. No, I'd met him on another occasion because he's a relative of Burr Steers. And I think they're all related to Aaron Burr. Right. Goes back.

Goes back. I just saw that Hamilton musical. I did, too. Did you like it? Yes, I did. Did you? Yes, very exciting. Very exciting.

Did you talk to Lin-Manuel? I went backstage. He couldn't have been nicer to me. Sweet guy. Very, very sweet and wildly talented, yeah. Are you a hip-hop person in general? No, not really. But no, we're a little older older and it's not a matter of age

but you do have to listen do you know that was the interesting thing about hamilton if you don't grow up with with hip-hop or rap yes we're at second nature to just take in the narrative like i i really was like all right i gotta yeah i gotta lock in listen i know what you mean i like to even in a movie in any kind of movie no matter matter how slowly they're talking, I like to see the words. I like to read along with it. Do you? Yes, I do. It's not that I'm going deep for anything like that. But I like to, well, I'm an actor, so I like to say, hey, I like to see it on the page.

So I like to see it. I like to read it. God damn it. Even if you didn't. Yeah, and at Hamilton, you really need to. You've got to lock in. Yeah, you've got to lock in. I could see it again now, and I could study the CD,

so I could really know exactly what they're talking about, not miss a word. Yeah. You know, it's like Shakespeare. And then, of course, learn a little bit more about history, too, to which they're referring. How are you with Shakespeare? Well, in what sense?

I did a little here and there. My very first job was Two Gents, a musical version of Two Gentlemen of Verona, written by Galt McDermott, who did Hair. When was this? And John Guare, who adapted Shakespeare. John Guare, who did The Atlantic City. House of Blue Leaves. Oh, Atlantic City, with Susan Sarandon. Yes, sir.

Who was in that movie that I was just about to refer to with Burr Steers because he wrote and directed this movie called Igby Goes Down. Yes. So Susan Sarandon or Sarandon. Yeah, Sarandon, I think, right? Whichever she prefers.

Well, I've heard both. I guess it's Sarandon. She was in here for a minute. What? Yeah, that was good. I'll bet it was. She's delightful. I love her.

What did she say and what did you say? She's very, like she's the very, I guess it's the term that you would use and I think you can still use is free-spirited she's free spirit in in in a very true sense that you know you get the sense that like no she'll talk about anything I wish I had more time you know it was one of those things where she had to be somewhere and and they came a little late, and I just realized talking to her, I'm like, she would just, she'd talk about anything. Really?

But yeah. Even publicly. So you got the sense. She's just not ashamed of anything, and she owns her past proudly, all of it. Isn't that interesting? I don't know. It's rare. All about her past.

Chris Sarandon was into gents. Yes. Listen to this and how this doubles back on itself. Chris Sar, was into gents. Yes. Listen to this and how this doubles back on itself. Chris Sarandon was into gents. With you. Yeah. Once we went to Broadway out of the Joe Pabst Delacorte Theater. Then we went to Broadway and he was in it for a time.

So was Stockard Channing. Oh. Yeah. She turned out to be a real stage actress. She certainly did. And she can belt out a tune, right? I think she's got a good set of pipes. I went and I played piano, you know, so I played piano.

I saw you at the memorial. It was very touching when we walked in at Gary's memorial. You were there. Thank you very much. Is it me or is somebody knocking on our door? Yes. Hello? Maybe there's a wildfire out, blazing out, about to consume us.

Oh, he's paying the pizza delivery? Oh, this must be the housekeeper. She seemed delightful. What's her name? Lupe. Lupe seems delightful. I've never talked about her on the microphone. Really?

She's very delightful. She seems delightful. She's very wonderful about her on the microphone. Really? Yeah, she's very delightful. She seems delightful. She's very wonderful. And she comes once a week. And I'm not even that much of a pig, but it's a pleasure. For years, I never thought, like, I remember when I was married, and this might be part of the reason I'm not, that the wife at that time would say, you know,

maybe we should have someone come in and clean. I'm like, we're not those people. We're not people who need cleaning people. You know, this is a small house and i didn't do that she was also the woman who said we should get central air i'm like that sounds like a hassle it's a small house it's not hot for that many months in retrospect had i done both of those things which i eventually did perhaps i would still be married really if? If I'd stopped yelling. There's other issues, Jim. Oh, boy. I want to hear everything.

Oh, you do? Yes, I do. So, wait. Two gents. Two gents. Shakespeare. Where did you grow up? In Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Who else is from there?

Michael Keaton? My friend Jerry Stahl? Jerry Stahl. Who's Jerry Stahl? The writer of Permanent Midnight? Oh, yeah. Permanent Midnight. Yeah. He's stiller. Yes, he played Jerry St writer of Permanent Midnight. Oh, Permanent Midnight. Ben Stiller.

Yes, he played Jerry Stahl in Permanent Midnight. Oh, darn. He grew up in Pittsburgh. I've met a few people from Pittsburgh. I don't have a sense of it as what it might have been like when it was a working class, perhaps, city on the decline. It's gotten a little influx of money. It seems a little better now. I guess so.

I wonder why. I was just talking last night to somebody. I should go there. They should give you a street or something. Oh, I don't think so. Gold Blum Lane. Yeah, really. It's over there by the old mill.

Yeah. By the old steel processing place. Yeah. It was, you know, when I grew up, it was smoky and evocative. Well, how'd you end up there? What was the family doing? How'd they land there? Oh, you know, my dad's dad named Pavartsek from Russia.

Pavartsek? Yep. See, this is why. I'm not Goldblum. I'm Pavartsek. That's your last name? Pavartsek. Well, it was never my last name, but that's the family name.

That was my dad's dad's name. I knew that I would get... I got along with you before you got here. Yeah, me too, you. It's because we're Russian Jews. Is that it? I think so. You're all Russians?

Because my mom's dad was Austrian. My mom's dad from his roots are in Austria. So we're, you know, we're brothers. We're cousins. Exactly right. Same genetics. Did you ever get that genetic thing done? I'm getting it done.

Yes. You got it done? Well, yes, very elaborately because we just had a child. I just had my first child. We wanted to get pregnant and we got pregnant with my now beautiful wife, Emily Goldblum. And so we got everything that one can do, you know, testing whether we were compatible genetically and all that but you did the whole dna history every oh that i didn't do just for the sake of uh you go back you can find the town oh that i didn't do nor have i looked up you know roots anything like tree

right roots so i don't know anything besides the one dad and the other dad and i don't even know whether they're from minsk or pinsk or or anything about that. Right. So that would be interesting. I should do that. But then, yeah, I just saw that you can do the whole, a whole DNA thing. So, okay.

So give me the name again. The DNA. So Pavartsek. Pavartsek. Yeah. And then we just, I was saying, we just had this child

who was born Independence Day, by the way, Charlie Ocean. Is he a year? He'll be a year. In July 4th. Fourth of July. And your movie comes out the

events of the movie happen on the second third that's right it's all coming together it's somehow if we can tie the two gents into this it's going to be amazing it's going to be one of those serendipitous interviews we're the two gents yes we are oh that's right it's right and we're speaking not regular non-shakespearean english yeah that's right you know who they but we're kind of hip-hoppy you know you know which is that's right. You know who they, but we're kind of hip-hoppy, which is the new Shakespeare. You know who the two gents were. I wonder which one you'd be.

One is called Valentine and one is called Proteus. Is that it? Yeah. I don't know. Is it a good cop, bad cop? Is it a comedy team situation where there's a doofus and a straight man?

How does it work? Oh, I like that. Doofus. Oh, you mean just doofus. You don't mean goofus and gallant. You know who goofus and gallant is how does it work oh i like that doof doofus oh you mean just do is you don't mean goofus and gallant you know who goofus and gallant is that's what we should play comic strip wasn't it no it was kind of those children's kind of magazines that you see in right offices and one would goof gallant would do all the right things goofus would do all the wrong so goofus was the doofus yeah that's exactly right uh you are a poet, and you don't know it, but your feet show it.

Can you finish that? No. They're longfellows. Oh. Now, you're, of course, wearing sandals. It's hot, Jeff. No, you don't have to be ashamed of anything, just like Susan Sarandon. These aren't Birkenstocks, and I've committed to them.

Yeah, they're very, very beautiful. Thank you. There's nothing wrong with... A lot of people think that an adult man... lot out of me the cleaning lady in the sandals this interview is moving more in your direction than mine no no i like you're getting it out of me i like all the secrets i'll tell you everything i'm an open-faced sandwich you know an open-faced reuben yeah i'd love a reuben sandwich i haven't had that in a million years you're scared of it well it's not exactly on my bullseye regime yeah well do you ever treat yourself you seem to be

fairly um healthy to the point where it looks like you spend a little time doing it yeah a little time I I do it I'm conscientious I kind of put in my time but But I sure love it. And I cheat here and there. If I thought that Reuben sitting in front of us, if there was one, was the best one, you know, it shouldn't be missed. I'd have a bite or two of it. But can you imagine hot? I remember when I first, I think my mom and I went out for a date. In Pittsburgh? Yeah.

They had a deli? Yeah, someplace. I'd said, what's a Reuben sandwich? You know, I remember when I first discovered it. She said, oh, it's a thing you know it's over vase got right sauerkraut it's hot i think melted cheese i know swiss cheese try it really yeah and then it came oh my god that's great i love food i i loved it then and i i had a similar experience with a reuben where it was like this is amazing really you know what the other deli item that sort of changed my life, my grandmother would take me, was diner rice pudding. The creamy kind.

Now you're talking my language. Oh, man. Oh, Jesus. That might be my, if I was going to be executed, that might be on the menu. With a little bit of cinnamon and some of the top that gets a little tough. Oh, my God. Right? That's delicious. You can't get it. It's hard to find. Really? bit of cinnamon and some of the top that gets a little uh you know tough oh my god right that's that's delicious it's you can't get it it's hard to find like the mexicans have a version of it

of that very specific rice pudding i've made it at home it's not baked it's done on the stove top you know where it thickens with the sugar and the actual rice but in the diner you'd go in and you could look in the in the window in the trays and you you'd see at the bottom, like, they got it. It'd be like rice pudding, tapioca pudding, and maybe some bread pudding. I love tapioca pudding. I love bread pudding. How about at Musso & Frank's, they have diplomat pudding, which is, I think, only there, which is bread pudding with some extra, like, raspberry sauce on it.

Oh. You're the diplomat then. Yeah. If you have, yeah. You're important. You're the diplomat then. Yeah. If you have, yeah. You're important. You're important. I think if I had a show business title, wouldn't I, couldn't I be the diplomat?

Sure, yes. That's not taken, is it? No, you're very diplomatic. I'm not the chairman of the board. I'm not the king. You can be the diplomat. I might be the diplomat. They should do it in your intro when you play music.

Please welcome the diplomat, Jeff Goldblum. So you're in Pittsburgh eating Reuben's with your mother in an unknown deli. Yes. And your father's father was from Russia and had a beautiful name, which was Pivartsyk. And your grandfather did what? Was he in dry goods? Schmattas? You know, he came over here.

My dad was sort of, well, let's not get into that. But Joseph. Just a little. Give me a sense of what we're not getting into. Well, you know, he was not so. I think in that generation of American Jews, they wanted to assimilate. Right. Pass.

Yeah. How do you pass? Get rid of that name. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he had Goldblum. Luckily, he didn't. I'm glad he didn't, you know, bastardize it anymore.

But I think his dad, who was selling, who had a little candy store and sold some luggage, didn't really want to drive, learned to drive and that kind of stuff. So he had a store with bags and luggage. Yeah, bags and candy. i never saw it i met tut tut we called him you know tut tut killer yeah joe joe goldman and um and but he was there we didn't go over and visit them much he and bubby you know lillian because your dad didn't want to well didn't didn't want to and then he had a he had a younger brother chucky yeah who died who he loved um who was a big who looked like me yeah was my height yeah and was a basketball star in um west

minster college and where there's many clippings one could see in pennsylvania i don't know where it was and would have been in the nba really they They said, yep. And then he volunteered for World War II. And he went, his plane went down and never found. Oh. Chucky. And that's why we named our boy, Charlie. Your son. His name, yes.

After Chucky. Believe it or not. Yeah. But so his family, he would always be a little, his mom, we'd go over to their house. Your grandparents. My grandparents. He didn't like the smell so much. Oh, right, right, right.

You know. My family, my parents were sort of the same. You'd go back and you'd see, you'd have this window into their past, but it was like, and that was really, that was really the birth of what we know as American Jews of that thing. That's why we know what Kishka is. That's why we know what Kasha is.

That's why we know, you know, that these delhi things that allowed arguments there's great scenes and you like in in any hall which you were in for for an amazing second thank you uh you know the the family so even going back to coney island that you know that that narrative has been sort of really kind of explored his father woody allen father, as a kid in that movie, is played by Mordecai Launer, who studied with Sandy Meisner, taught that method, and wound up in Pittsburgh at Carnegie Mellon University.

And I took a six-week summer course between 9th and 10th and 10th, 11th grades, and that was the first exposure I had to something like the Sandy Meisner improvisational method. With that actor, Mordecai. With Mordecai Lawner who was teaching. Yes.

She's poor. She could steal from us. Yes. Yes. That's right. What are you talking about? Yeah. That's right.

That's the wonderful Mordecai Lawner. But we were, wait, wait, let's backtrack. Get out of this cul-de-sac. So we'd go back and they had pictures of Chucky Goldblum. And they said, oh, he was never found, but he's going to come back. Oh, they believed that. And my dad was always like kind of mad. Well, maybe that was another reason why he didn't like to go over there.

Was that, you know, this sort of like the grief mixed with the expectation. There was plenty of subterranean. Judging him against the dead one. Yes. Unexcavated. Lots of things. I'm sure that were hidden in the Jewish David Lynchian. Yeah.

You know, just under the surface. And then when I started to play, looked like his brother started to play basketball myself. I was kind of athletic. Yeah. And then went into acting. He wanted to be they said he he said he wanted to either be to get himself out of this condition and to rise up and to be an american uh he was going to either be a doctor as one did or an actor he got into his head

stuck his head in the back of those are the options yes he stuck his head in the back of a class of carnegie tech which was then called Carnegie Mellon University, and said, he then reported to us, that it was out of my league, he said, whatever that meant. Right. But so, you know, fast forward, and me being titillated by it, very inspired. Did he go into show business? He did not. No. What did he do?

He was a doctor. Your dad was a doctor? He was a doctor. So he took a little. Look at the class. That's so funny, because the doctor, one is strongly condoned by the Jewish elders. The other is like, what are you doing? Yes, except, yeah, except if you make it, as Philip Roth says, you know, in Portnoy's Complain, I think,

it's even better than a doctor if you're on the Johnny Carson. Sure. You know, hey, look, he was on the Johnny, that's him. That was the only way they knew you were a palpele. Yeah, something like that. It's very funny now with so many different TV outlets, like to the point where like I finally, I've got four seasons of a TV show and I still got a father who's like, I don't get it.

I don't know where to watch it. Right. Do I get it? Can you imagine? Really? Your dad does that? Where is he? In New Jersey?

No, he's in New Mexico. No one's in New Jersey anymore. What's he doing in New Mexico now? That's where we shot Independence Day, in Albuquerque. Yeah, I grew up in Albuquerque. You did? Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

That's where I spent this last year ago, this summer. Well, they got that great facility there now, the studio. That's where we were. Yeah. In those big soundstages. We had five or six of those enormous soundstages. Yeah, yeah. But no kidding, you grew up there.

Didn't Gary Shandling grow? He was in phoenix arizona but southwestern jews southwestern jews you got brothers and sisters yes well i had there were four of us originally um not unlike my dad my brother whom i adored four years older than me rick uh died when he was 23 unfortunately in 1970 he was he was a kind of a truth seeker and adventurer and uh hemingway-esque you know wannabe writer but that was a 60s thing yes that that's right you get the idea and he was traveling around he was in north africa like casablanca agadir morocco yeah and doing the beatnik thing yes kind of hippie early hippie uh beatnik kind of bumming around on a beach kind of thing got a quick something or other and died very quickly of a disease shockingly yep a

virus a bacteria something like that no kidding yeah kidney failure finally yeah it's horrible horrible horrible like 20 i was 19 he was 23 and he was the guy that was guiding you through well yes the life that's right the music when i for that's right he first uh he moved out of the house you know and yeah got a kind of a pad right pitt was in college and was starting to talk funny and talked about in 1960. What was this, seven or something like that? Counterculture. What's that? Counterculture.

And then I went over to his place and he put on, I think, one of the Beatles albums had just come out. Like the, you know, not the white album. I'll bet this was Magby road magical mystery oh yeah yeah and put that on and we just smoked hash yeah which was probably powerful and i'd never done anything so it was like tripping were you sort of a nerdy athletic kid i was i played baby ball i was but you know athletic i was good but i was never on a team but i played all day all along with my neighborhood friends every sport i like that but i was never on a team but i played all day all along with my neighborhood friends every sport i like that but i was already playing piano yeah kind of interested in acting maybe and uh

but uh but he turned me on to all that yeah girl you know he was already kind of a handsome guy and you know with the girls so yes he was kind of guy guiding me i i looked up to him terrifically so then he died i went to new york and i was in this broadway show i was in two gents on broadway when i got this horrible news and then that uh and then uh there's my other brother lee who was around until a couple years ago died finally at 60 he was five years older than me uh he kind of was back in pittsburgh very close to my mom and uh we could talk about him but a very sweet sweet guy and then there's my sister who's still around uh pat two years younger pam

yeah a wonderful girl a painter very wonderful artist who paints with her husband jeffrey kaiser shot another painter and they both teach at this point very i'm dating a painter painters are an interesting people. Really? You are. I think so too. How long have you been going with this girl? A couple years almost. What's her name? Sarah Kane. Sarah Kane? Yeah, she's preparing for a show

in New York in September. Really? Yeah, at LeLong. Gallery LeLong. And what kind of stuff does she paint? Abstract. Big. Really? Like things that are just like, where does that come from? Like very impressive. Beautiful. Yeah.

Does she live here? Yeah, she does. Oh, she does? She lives down the street. Oh, really? Kinda. Yeah. Isn't that wonderful?

Yeah, sometimes. Yeah? And sometimes not, but you've only been going together for two years. What could be going wrong so far? I'm crazy. I'm crazy. I'm crazy. What always goes wrong? So crazy after all these years.

I love that song. That's kind of a touching song, isn't it? Well, Neil, he's a good artist, that Paul Simon. He does all right for himself. He sure does. And we had a chance to shoot the breeze a little bit at one of these things we did. Yeah, a little charity event that I did where I played the piano and uh yeah he's very open and available we got talking

about every little thing yeah in the time we had also in annie hall yes exactly not far from where you were you must have had our scene interest i'm in the same scene the same house a little that's right it's his house this is the shot your tracking shot goes by him and he's showing woody allen, and his girlfriend, and then it stops on me at the end of the scene. I forgot my mantra. I forgot my mantra on the phone. That's right.

That's right. But how do we get into that? You delivered it so Jeff Goldblum-like. Oh, thank you. Thank you. How do we get into there? Wait a minute. Paul said-

So your mom's still around? Oh, so you're crazy after all these years. That's right. Your mom's still around? My mom knew. My dad died in 83 at the age of 63. Oh god that's right big heart attack like many uh males in our family my mom's dad died in his 40s or 50s i never met him sam temelis and then uh uh joe gold goldblum pavartzik goldblum died uh you know heart attack was. Big heart attack. Yeah, heart. So I'm taking care of that kind of thing.

How's the cholesterol? You know, I do everything I can, and I think it's good. You got the genetic thing, though? Like a little high? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Me too. Oh, yeah, yeah. It needs to be.

I need to do everything I can to make sure I'm doing good. I was at his funeral, of course. I remember his funeral. Your father's. My grandfather's. Oh, Joe. Yeah. Joe, when I was very grandfather's um yeah joe when i was a very young 11 12 you know and my my grandmother of whom i spoke who thought chucky was always gonna

come back come back they say it was in a little you know wherever it was funeral home thing and somebody spoke. My dad didn't speak. It wasn't like Gary Shandling's Hollywood big, beautiful production. It was a little thing. And there was a screen. And behind the screen was the casket. And then we'd go back and see it.

And then I think they said, all right, Lillian, his wife can come back and see it. And she went around. My dad was sitting sort of next to me maybe. And we hear from behind the screen a whale, my best friend, my best friend, you know, like that. My dad looked sort of ashamed, that um my dad looked sort of ashamed sort of ashamed but moved and disturbed and a little ashamed it was more of a scene i think than he wanted at that point and then we went on to the the grave site yeah and as the casket was being lowered down yeah lillian um started to wail again. I think my best friend and started to try to climb into the hole and needed to be restrained. So sad. It was sad, shocking, alarming.

And I think to my dad, also disturbing. Yeah, emotions. So he was not a yeller or an emotional guy my dad um was not no he was not a he was kind of a very authentic uh real sort of guy with a big work ethic um lovely we were we'd go to the steelers games all the time what kind of doctor internist internal medicine practitioner made that had the bag he had a bag he'd go to the Steelers games all the time. What kind of doctor? Internist. General practitioner. General practitioner. He had the bag?

He had a bag. He'd go to people's houses. He'll make house calls, that kind of thing. Patients loved him, I think. My mom was kind of a bombastic, vivacious, and had a temper, yes, and would be dramatical and histrionic here what'd she do oh she raised us four kids and um uh and then took off after we left was a sex therapist so the legend has it and uh for a time and went back to college and had a radio show and or something

like that they separated no no. They stayed together. And she wanted to be in show business early on. Yeah, yeah. So she was a kind of an actress-y type, show-y type. Funny? Well. Hard to know. Hard to know.

Too close. Too close. It was complicated and dark and... Oh, yeah? And storched, yes. Very, very... Big weather. Lots of weather there.

Big weather patterns. So my dad was less like that, as you asked. Didn't have to be. Yes. Sometimes that's the way it goes. There's one that sits while the other one spins. Yigs, that was more like that. Although sometimes he'd blow.

Oh, yeah. He'd blow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you'd hear him blow. And when, you know, you could see when he was. And then, you know, he'd whip off his belt sometimes. He wouldn't, you know, exactly beat us. Yeah.

But the threat was always there. The belt. I mean, I can't imagine. We have an 11-month-old. You know, the hysterical chaos with four kids. I don't how how you do it but you know it's not that he beat us i'm not saying that but uh anyway he was wonderful but uh but after rick died if i'm not being too personal after rick died uh now he was you know rick was 23 and he was you know whatever he's younger than me now he was in his 50s or something like that he would take to bursting into tears unexpectedly yeah bursting into tears i also

saw him burst into tears uh when he saw me act on stage he burst into tears yes i i did a i did a play early on in my 20s at the phoenix theater where's that city show in new york city and i was a was a kind of you know he came up pedigreed yeah they came down to see that um pedigreed kind of new york off-broadway theater and it was a premiere of a stephen polyakov play. I had the lead part. I was on the radio. I played a disc jockey from Liverpool or something. And so I had a dialect, and it was a showy part.

And I worked hard on it, and afterwards... And this is already after he'd seen Nashville, the Robert Altman movie, and he said something like, your dad said, he was, what were you doing in that movie? What was, I don't get your part, you know, et cetera, et cetera. So I was like, oh. I was the guy in the bike. Yeah, yeah. I was like that movie what was i don't get your part you know etc etc so i was like oh i was the guy in the bike yeah yeah i was like oh boy you don't get it you know i was you know right mad in a lot of ways and uh and but he came back after that show burst into tears and threw his arms around me oh can you imagine you did it well something like i

don't know i hit a chord in him. He wanted to be an actor and all that stuff. He's proud of you. That's what you did. Yeah, he was very proud of me. Yeah. Hey, do you like that play, Death of a Salesman? Yeah. I think, oh, geez, Arthur.

I wish, well, I almost met Arthur Miller once. But that family, I love that play. The Dustin Hoffman, John Malkovich one? Oh, my God. I loved that. It was great. I've seen many. I've seen Lee J. Cobb on stage, but Malkovich one. Oh, my God. I loved that. It was great. I've seen many. I've seen Lee J. Cobb on stage, but he was the original.

You saw him on stage? No, I didn't. You saw him in the movie? But there's a one can get it. You can get that, you know. Lee J. Cobb was such a fucking monumental kind of presence. He sure was. I wish I'd see.

Well, you could see him in that. My dad saw him in King Lear. They used to go to New York to see theater, and they'd come back with cast albums. An angry Jewish Lear. Yes. He went, and then he said, listen to this. He said he met him on the street. He ran into him.

He had a celebrity sighting. Your dad did. My dad did. Went up to him and said, Mr. Cobb, I just wanted to tell you, I saw your King Lear the other day, and it was just wonderful. And he said, and when he told this story, and he told it several times, he said, Lee J. Cobb, at that compliment, burst into a kind of smile that was full of joy, he thought. So he was remarking on, the point of the story was how much he loved doing it and how

proud he was and how much he appreciated hearing this you know yeah like that and he's the one my dad said you know if you find something you really love to do that's your vocational guidepost and that's why i'm doing this that's really when i figured out when i had an experience or two when i thought hey i'm this is I really love this. That's what I'll do. That's why I put two and two together. He's a very sensitive guy, despite himself, your father. He was a very sensitive guy.

Yes, he had a of that era and of that generation, a kind of restraint and some difficulties and challenges. But he was, of course, very he had an art art in him in a way and very, very sensitive. So you decide your vocation is, you know, you're there in Pittsburgh, you're playing basketball, you've got a brother that kind of opens your mind, you've got a mother who's kooky but compelling, a dad who's reluctantly supportive. Yeah, well, they were both finally, you know, okay. I mean, he thought, you know, academics, you know, go to college and all that. But I got into this school at 17, neighborhood playhouse, you know, okay. I mean, he thought, you know, academics, you know, go to college and all that. But I got into this school at 17, Neighborhood Playhouse, Sandy Meisner.

He didn't know him. That's where you went? You auditioned for that? You didn't audition. You just met Sandy Meisner. And you went and met him. You took a trip. I took a trip. You took a train.

My mom helped me. Well, she drove. What did we do? You were 17. We must have flown. Yeah? Because we'd driven. We'd taken many road trips to Miami Beach.

We went to the Fountain Blue Hotel once. Sure. Mostly went to Atlantic City, of course, you New Jerseyan. So you don't know if you drove or you flew, but you go to New York and you're meeting with Sanford Meisner. Yeah, I met Sanford Meisner. Why did you find him? What drove you to that school?

Well, the interesting that you should ask, Mordecai Lawner. Oh, the guy who you went to the summer school. Summer school. I auditioned for Carnegie Mellon University. It was the only place. Good acting school. A good acting school. I fell in love with it, fell in love with acting.

Every morning on the shower door, I would write, please God, let me be an actor. And there was a secret. So I'd wipe it off. But I was obsessed with it. So I auditioned for that school and I failed. I didn't get in. They rejected me. So I scrambled around and more

kyle honored um uh i did a probably horrible audition in fact i did a scene from death of a salesman i did biff who's having a midlife grad 35 i didn't understand i couldn't have understood that at all yeah i'm sure i was horrible yeah uh anyway but more kind of learned said well you might want to might want to check out this school where i taught and sandy meisner he's the best anyway that's how i found myself recommended there and i had a meeting with him and he accepted me what was that like i mean sanford meisner was part of the was he part of the group theater was he part right yeah with uh with uh clifford odets and and stella and And Lee Strasberg, Harold Plurman.

A real purpose, a populist theater movement. Oh, if you haven't read about that for years. Yeah, that was a big part of that. Yes, that. And I think Sandy Meisner came out of that and formed this teaching method. What was your impression of Meisner as a 17-year-old? Oh, he was an impressive, wonderful figure of serious substance and imbued you with how worthwhile and serious and beautiful this life endeavor could be. It was something.

And he was so deep and authentic and already kind of realized in a way. But you know what he was? What? He also had his own problems. I studied him over the years. I taught that technique for years. So I have my own convictions about many aspects of that. But listen to this,

because I know a little bit about our shared connection in this way. You know who was in my class in 1970 um jonathan katz because we both did uh i didn't know that about him yes now listen to this jonathan katz was in that class he could also be what i was going to say is meisner could be fierce and kind of cruel he was always frightening you either had to get on the high wire and do this thing. It wasn't fooling around. It wasn't Hollywood acting class type stuff where you came in from surfing and was like, hey, I'll toss this off. You were either, you know. In it or not.

That's correct. Yeah. It was a serious endeavor. Jonathan Katz was in the class. After a couple of months, he said, all right, Katz, you you let's see your your thing jonathan did this thing we were you started his improvisation with this so-called um independent activity he was not doing really what the what one wanted what meisner wanted at that point obviously he stopped it i think he slammed his hand on the desk or something he could be he was quick triggered yeah his even all his demeanor was always a kind

of a lesson in how hot and available one could be you know kind of thing but um so he said stop right there he said you've been uh jonathan katz you've been hiding for three months now or something like that yeah now you do, tell me what you're doing. What are you doing? Explain this activity. He says, I'm trying to think of all the, remember all the dead people I've ever touched, which did not fulfill the assignment really

for what we were getting at. You know, Meisner started to steam like Brando in One-Eyed Jacks or something. And he said, you listen to me. You've been hiding now for three months, and now you come up with this. Take your things. Get out of here.

You're out. You're out. At that point, you could feel your blood chill, everyone sitting there, as Jonathan pathetically gathered up his things and walked to the door and got out. And that was the last we saw of him. And you can bet we all made, we redoubled our efforts to, you know, do whatever we were doing.

Well, what was the episode? It was cruel. And it was, I believe, it was a little misguided. I mean, it worked on us, if that's what he intended. And Jonathan Katz, because I ran into him later, and then I did the show. He said, you know, I quit after that. I never did anything for two decades or something. And then I'm doing that.

You know, Mr. Meisner missed that he was an interesting and resourceful, and he had something to offer that might have needed a little nurturing. I do believe currently. But I don't think Meisner saw that as his job and it infuriated him, because I do believe currently. Well, I admit, but I don't think Meisner saw that as his job and it infuriated him because I think that, you know,

that standard that was set by Meisner and Straussberg for acting classes where you defer to this guru, this emotional wizard to sort of reveal yourself and trust the environment that, you know,

they can tell if you're fucking around and you're not willing to take the risks and for whatever reason that you can't it's not their goddamn responsibility i i hear what you're saying i i that's that's also correct you're both right i'm the diplomat the truth of the matter is is that if you access the emotions necessary that doesn't in and of itself guarantee that you're going to be a good actor no and there's some other combination of things but in order to get to that place to do the work if you've got what it takes is sort of necessary within this structure yeah and you

believe in this structure yeah well what is this what is the meisner what is the method well i've talked to some people about it and like i joke about it that you know when i knew people that were just taking classes and not necessarily in the school, that I think it was when Meisner had already passed that we became available for sort of weekend warriors and whatnot to just take a class but not be immersed in the method, that the Meisner method was the repetition thing. It's sometimes misunderstood as only that. Well, it gets hacked like that that's my experience of it is that's right green green green green great yeah but that's that's not it i think it's i it's misunderstood as that it's uh here's in a nutshell i can't possibly give it any justice but let me see if i can be clear in a second in a very pithy second um first of all it's acting uh i think he's well it's uh it's

instinctive he called it living truthfully under imaginary circumstances okay uh like harold clerman's book lies like truth it really only means just pretend but pretend good yeah that's really what you're doing so how do you how do you do that He had a foundational program that lasted a couple of years, the first part of which was set up so that his signature distinguishing feature that he really contributed, this improvisation, came at the beginning. And so it was the beginning of this pretending good business, living truthfully under imaginary circumstances, whereby. I like that. Yeah, whereby you had to start to, the improvisation became finally an improvised exercise where you're under imaginary circumstances and you have an authentic living experience where you're present and open. And you live out these this this made-up situation uh this business of working off the other person and your connection with the other person that is part of this and part of this technology of this um is like skating is to hockey you can't

play the hockey game until you know how to skate so until you know how to go moment to moment so to speak where you can be where you really train yourself um to be um attentive available and to every to the other guy mostly but everything that's going on around you that's not just that's well that's what you're training there so there's a technology for that and he kind of developed this this thing that begins with this repetition. So that's the first part of it, this communication under imaginary circumstances. The second part, that's the incoming where you listen. You can listen so attentively that you can repeat exactly what the other guy said. As a matter of fact, you can communicate to him what you got besides what he said.

Here's the way you said it and all the nuances thereof. And then before you go on, you're part of the tennis, when the ball is on your side of the court, you say, here's how you put the ball to me. Here's what I just got from you. And here's how I send it back because this is how I feel about, I'm going to now communicate to you in word or deed, how I feel about what you've just said

or how you've just said it. Right. Which demands that you open yourself up. So it causes you to be at once present and train yourself to be present and open and connect to your unique channel of communicativeness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's pretty good that's a pretty

good start you're listening and you're answering and that starts to solve the problem of when you got a script hey let's pretend that i've never heard this before and i'm going to take it in and i'm going to let your pinch produce an ouch in me that now generates what i have to do back to you that's kind of how life goes. And so it sort of simulates that under the imaginary circumstances. So it's very good in our world. It teaches you how to improvise, which is very useful in all kind of jobs that you may get. But it also gives you technology that supplies the underpinnings of Wes Anderson script

or Shakespeare or Chekhov or David Mamet, where you got to say the words, but have an alive experience and play the game of acting, which is, this is like real life. I'm going to listen to you and be available to you. And even if nothing different happens and give it back to you,

pinching and ouching, and then play the whole game and make, make a, make a pretend a scene out of it. You get the idea? I do. And I, and it makes sense to me and i appreciate all of that and and i you know and i've always felt that those things were important to be emotionally present and open and listening and engaged with the other person now i'm no trained actor but i've done some acting lately and i've gotten better at it and the trick is is that you can do all those things, but eventually you have to be comfortable.

Yes. So like, you know, being present, you know, is good. But, you know, to appreciate the space that you're in. And then, you know, because like the thing that always drops off for me when you tell me that is like, all right, you're pretending. But OK, so you're in a house and it's 1920. And, you know, how much do you take in? How do you register? And how much do you take in? How do you register?

What technology do you use outside of being present for the pinching and ouching to place yourself in an environment? Or say when you're on a film to return back after a three-day whatever scene on an airplane to the emotions that are necessary to play the rest of the scene before you get on the airplane? Like what are the tools that you use for being in the actual environment that you're pretending to be in other than the emotional connection and the pinching and ouching and also returning back to the emotional state necessary to pick up where you left off in film or television work? Well, you're talking about many different things.

First of all, the second year so-called of the Meisner technique, that first improvisation and some improvisatory ways of handling early scene work as part of the first year. The second work is basically, in my view, kind of what Stella Adler was doing, which is understand the material. Now let's understand the play and do the play, do the show, and make it interesting and make it good.

Um, which involves, um, you know, um, you know, fully realizing the situation where if this is 1920 really under, you know, she would talk about, you know, understanding the music that you might be listening to then you know really all of that doing whatever you have suggestions right right right if you're in another time but i guess only you know whether you really did that or not and sometimes it doesn't matter if you're pretending well enough yeah there's no formula to it you know there's no formula to it and the other piece of the the other thing you referred to this uh requires what some people call emotional preparation where if you're you know where you're going to pick up from a scene

where you just found out some horrible news or some wonderful news and you just got to start right there yeah you have to possibly degenerate in yourself right take the second pick it up there yeah um i've you know one it's a very individual thing yeah and after experimenting for several decades uh with that one can overemphasize preparation and and uh right trying to generate things the more i do it i'm still conscientious and prepare in many ways But the given circumstances, like Stanislavski said, are kind of all you need, at least for me at this point. I don't like to go astray too much and bring music in with me and read a book and go astray and spend all morning trying to get myself in a condition. I'm more self-trustful at this point right that can be overemphasized as that improvisation can be uh um overemphasized um uh whereby some first

year meisner students can go that's it this feels so good this is all i want to do yeah and they'll never figure out how to learn lines and make them sound like improvisation or do the show good and understand the author's intent right a lot of it let's be honest is is either you got it or you don't well there's that too and it yeah yeah and it means yeah you might either have a flair for it or not yeah and part of that flair is do you have an appetite do you really want to do it right are you crazy about doing it that's part of it so it seems to me uh in looking at uh you know the the the bulk of work which is a lot you've done a lot of work yeah but you certainly paid your fucking dues in terms of like you're in new york you're doing meisner you get the play you get the nashville movie obviously got an agent but you're doing whatever you can to get on camera yeah yeah I did well it kind of happened luckily I mean I

got the first thing and the second thing and one thing led to another like Death Wish was small it was very small but was the first audition I ever went on and that led to something else and that led to something else and I was lucky because I didn't know what I was doing it takes Meisner says it takes 20 years to be of real work to even call yourself an actor and then a lifelong experience i'm a late bloomer and i'm a humble student and i kind of follow that credo and i'm still learning and i got lucky that i got chances to learn on the job and lucky that it was just little yeah i i didn't know what i was doing and it wasn't i'm still learning now i'll tell you on the set last year i found out a lot of things that have transformed my work yep like what well

this business about over emphasizing preparation i was still a little addicted to a year ago uh over emphasizing for myself working too hard on getting myself into a condition and uh or distract myself or free myself so that when i had the the moment of the scene i was a little surprised or a little bit fresh or a little bit something that i thought or a little bit alive yeah more alive than i thought i should be and i would drink a little bit of coffee too which is not the worst thing in the world but I've given that all up in the last year no coffee this is me no coffee and I don't drink it now

I was not drinking too much of it but it's like even the smallest kind of extra stimulation or performance enhancement I kind of don't want to do now it's just better for me I kind of trust more than ever my own bones yeah and blood and somehow and the scene and my ability to solve the scene uh at in the moment i still

prepare from the day i get the part and sure try to figure out what to do to make it good on the day yeah but when i get there yeah i don't want any books in my pocket or other right you know conversation that i'm going to try to you know free myself or unnecessary you know etc etc yeah what do you think of that i think it's great i think it seems that maybe meisner was right it takes at least 20 years for me you know if he set me up like that i dig it i'm glad hey if i'd figured all this out in the first couple of years i'd be bored i think i'd be bored or doing something else i I'm still excited because I want another opportunity now to try out my new better self. Yeah. That comfort in your own skin, you know, is beautiful for you as an artist.

But also you always had your own time zone that you're one of those guys that, you know, you, you know, just by your nature. You know, you have a way of phrasing. You have a way of being. You have a way of taking information. And even when you walked into my house, you took things in. And I'm like, he's being so Jeff Goldblum. It's purely you. And I think as an artist of any kind, you want to arrive there.

You want to be comfortable enough to go, I know who I am. Yeah, Mo Meisner said, don't copy anybody. Just figure out how you can do it uniquely. He said that. So I think I took that to heart. I've tried to pursue that. And yeah, I just got, I think I was lucky somehow. And again, I got a toehold in something that was nourishing and kind of followed it.

That's the other thing you hear a lot about, choices, making choices. It seems like that Meisner was not too hung up on that well that's right i think his uh like i say distinguishing contribution was that first year that sort of opens you up if it's a very good method right right and then you do what you're and then he get kind of uh his second year he's it's less distinctive i think it's more like what everybody else is trying to do make it good yeah Adler, make good choices and figure out how to do it, make it interesting. And so, you know, he would kind of like, hey, you figure it out. You know, do it and do it a lot and you'll figure out how to make it good.

I like the other part. If you try to get through, you know, a play, really your whole adult career without doing that second part, a play really your whole adult career without doing that second part it's like as somebody said trying to cross the atlantic ocean with a uh with a mix master strapped to your sure patoot you know it's right but i think that second part is also uh it's on the actor to integrate how they're going to bolster their personal craft that you know like a system is only going to be a system to a certain degree whereas like what you're basically saying to me is as you move through it and do as much work as you have you're going to you know figure out your own means to get to these things and also like for me the idea of making a choice you know once you get the

emotions in place and even in the small amount of acting i've done that you want to stay keep the emotions in place but you might want to do a different line read you might want to take a different action you might want to surprise yourself in that moment to get the comedy out of it or the emotions out of it. And those are conscious things. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. But I imagine that everyone, like The Fly was the big movie.

You're carrying the movie. You're the lead. You're the guy. You're The Fly. And you're working with Cronenberg, and it's insane. And the makeup is insane. And your performance is intense there's like the moment

where you're defending your decision like there's a moment there where you're angry because you know you feel so good that you can't how can this be wrong that it was so drug addict-y you know I said what's the matter with you I say you're jealous that's what you are you're jealous

don't put me don't clip my wings i'm free i'm free something like that or whatever i say yeah i know they had high high moments that could have been good and i tried to make them good they were great yeah thanks cronenberger was is uh you know he's a good he's good he's got balls yes yes visionary visionary yeah visual unique yeah it goes chances way yep yeah and then we were on the jury together at can some years after that seeing a bunch of interesting movies yeah yeah can is that fun yeah that was fun it was fun you know seeing i took the assignment seriously we saw 22 movies in a couple of weeks and talking with interesting people

in jurassic park you were great i like i was very excited about what you did with that character for some reason. Yeah, because I was very aware of the leather jacket. I don't know whose choices those were, but I liked it. Thank you. Were you pointing at yourself? I was, but then I thought better of it. I'm sure Mr. Spielberg, it was all his design. But he was actually very trustful and very collaborative.

And so I remember when I went in for the costume, saw the costumier, you know, I had my own ideas and already done a bunch of shopping and said, how about this and this? And I think they took everything I got. I thought it was good. It was good. He sort of had almost an Elvis element, like a rock star element to it. Yeah. A rebel thing right well i knew it was a potentially you know what could be described as a you know sciencey kind of geeky guy but i wanted to make it as yeah cool as sex it up sex it up

handsome man scientists are are are cool yeah sure neil degrasse tyson yes you know they're important and cool the the real future rests in their hands. I love them. Also, you also did a lot of the 70s television stuff and things. But that was fun, right? Yeah, it was. When did you move out here? I moved out. So I graduated high school in the 70s.

I went to New York, did that, and then started to do plays. And in 74, I was in New York. And then in 74, came out here after nashville some agent saw me said oh we'll come out here we'll show you around and then i never left so it's good times then yeah well i wish i'd kind of just like me well you know as you know on a movie location i don't really unwrap the whole city yeah uh but besides my assignment similarly in new york can you imagine in new york in 75 i could have i could have gone places that i didn't yeah and in la in 75 to a you know i could

have gone places i did and i had my you know feel of the tail of the elephant or the trunk or whatever piece i was feeling but that's about all it was kind of it was it was interesting but yeah but like i become sort of fascinated with um like i talked to begley of all people uh who was phenomenal i enjoyed talking to him but i'm sort of fascinated with this town at that time like he was around longer you know yeah that's when we met he and i've been you know yeah in the mid 70s where you know he was plenty you know different no absolutely drinking up a storm. Sure, no, he definitely talks about it. But like also like there was something about,

because when I see you in Altman movies and I see like a, you know, a Columbo on your credit sheet, you know, that I feel like. Blue Knight. I'm fascinated at the time when the business was smaller, the community was smaller, you know, people were out and around. There wasn't this fear of uh of

paparazzi everywhere that you could go out for dinner and you'd see you know nicholson you go to dantanas you go you know to the rock club that there was a real sort of uh a community to it that i romanticized but it was real right yeah i think it was like i said i mean i had my you know little corner of it that i experienced and it was delightful Like I said, I mean, I had my, you know, little corner of it that I experienced, and it was delightful, you know, running into Ed being in his circle and Cindy Williams, you know, at the time, and Fred Roos and Bruno Kirby, you know. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, with whom I became very palsy, you know, what a delightful, wonderful guy he was. Yeah. So it was very, very special. It was a special time. We studied with Peggy Fury, if you knew her, this acting teacher back then. I don't know her. Wonderful.

Oh, she was just great. Is she still around? No, no, she's not. So now that you've been married, what, three times? Yes, I have. One first kid. This is the first kid right now? Yeah.

Yeah, that's right. 11 months old. You're 10 years older than me or so. 63, yeah. You're 52. Yeah. Yeah, I'm 63. October.

October 22nd. I'm September 27th. Ooh. Libra. You're a Libra. Yeah. Well, you brought it up. You hold, there's no credence in astrology.

No, I know that okay do you all everyone within the sound of our voice do they do they know that too we can tell them but i just i'm trying to figure out like i'm looking for all the similarities judd hirsch played my father as well on my tv show yeah on what show on marin on ifc really he's delightful i just saw him last night yeah he's a model of youthfulness and longevity yes i would say so yeah yeah and you know it's like it's he's very interesting because he can work with all degrees of jewishness like what do you turn it up to 11 or be hardly hardly exactly yeah yeah yeah we had to did we had to turn down the jew a little that was actually a note that's the name of my book yeah yeah the turn down the jewish little. That was actually a note. That's the name of my book, yeah.

Turn Down the Jew a Little Crazy. How Jewish were you brought up? Well, like, you know, the Coen brothers, you know, The Serious Man, 1967. I love that movie. You know, it's barely, we went to this, we were the only Jews in this, in West Homestead, where my dad was the doctor to these steel workers kids really right families and that's who I went to school with there was one little orthodox the tambourine so they sent us there not really having any interest in it and we went to Hebrew school and misbehaved there

right it was our chance to misbehave sure and then I had a part to make teachers cry that's what you do at Hebrew school try to make teachers cry you made your hebrew teachers two of them yeah really horrible why what did you do that made him cry just a smart ass i know it's one of the places i felt freer yeah and i felt kind of humorous too and this old jewish business made me feel a little bit funny and uh but then i had this bar mitzvah there was a little performancey and that was kind of fun But then we never did anything after that. Right. And then I developed this sort of yogic kind of interest in the miraculous and all that. Really?

Do you have that still? Well, a little, a vestige of it. But it's balanced now with a kind of interest in science. If I'm going to expose Charlie to anything, it'll be to uh cosmos with neil degrasse tyson and uh you know you know with the real configuration of the universe yes i love poetry and i love the creative life which is the unseen and the imaginative and and uh the spirits around us of course and all that but uh but read carl sagan's last book, The Demon Haunted World, that not only says it's foolish to believe in fun, untrue things, but dangerous. So I have been reading Sam Harris and Daniel Dennett and Christopher Hitchens and a lot of people like that. Because you were too much of a romantic?

I'm not. I love my romance um but i but i'm full of some half cocked ideas oh and you wanted clarity uh yes sir i believe so and uh it feels like it's right for our moment and also it seems like it's informing like you know whatever experience you had about yourself on the set of independence day that you that the more clarity you get around what's real and what isn't and whether or not you're full of shit or not can only help you be more true to yourself. Well, that sounds right to me or whatever you're talking about, either the circumstances within the movie or me as the actor. No, by just saying in general as a person that if you're calling yourself out on your bullshit. Well, there's that yes and then some of these baloney ideas which are a little airy-fairy you know

uh are fine if they feed your gizzard you know yeah um but not fine for making you know global decisions necessarily exactly we don't want to elect our officials yeah uh if they're involved in any way based on their yogic practice exactly or astrology or uh you know conspiracy theories conspiracy theories god damn them ignoramuses you know who find themselves in these positions yes who hear from this source and that source can you imagine you can pick whatever source you want there's thousands of them now outrageous you know learn the facts uh, my dear fellow. You've got to search for those sometimes.

Yes, it takes a little effort. Put a little effort into it. Find the facts. Find the facts. Find the facts. So you know what I'm talking about. Not as sexy as the bullshit sometimes. Sexier.

Finally, if you put in the effort, it's much sexier. Neil deGrasse Tyson will tell you, you know, if the real configuration of the universe and the stardust from which we're made, you know, commonly is plenty poetical well okay well let's talk about real things do you do you save the world again oh yeah i got it's a spoiler alert uh sure it's we we we snatch victory from the jaws of uh imminent defeat uh-huh So it's touch and go, but it comes down to the last buzzer. But yeah, you know. Really, I was hoping for the dark ending. I like those dark endings myself.

Did you see Melancholia? Uh-uh. Oh, Lars Van Trier? Oh, no. Well, that's Charlotte Gainsbourg is in this movie, and she's my cohort in several scenes. She was wonderful. You know who she is?

Yeah, Serge's daughter. Yeah, Serge's daughter. And she's in those Lars Ventrier movies, Melancholia. I saw. What was the one I saw? Nymphomaniac and Antichrist. Those are still on the list. I saw the one about the family, which was like.

Yeah, Celebration. Oh, my God. You're probably talking about. Oh, yeah. Good stuff. He's really interesting. The Idiots, Breaking the Waves. Breaking the Waves.

He's really good. But those three movies, and she's wonderful in them. I've got to watch them. I've made a point. I've got to watch these, but I haven't done any. Yeah, well, Melancholia is an end-of-the-world movie, but the world ends. I hope I'm not spoiling anything.

And it's Kirsten Dunst's characters who kind of accepts it, who's really smart and finally prescient about our place in the whole universe. And she says, you know, we're just evil. We're just kind of an evil planet. Nobody's going to miss us, in fact. And then the world ends. Something like that. Well, look, it was great talking to you. I guess we've got to wrap it up. You're just a wonderful individual. It was fun. I was very excited. I knew we'd get along. How big is your head? I'd say seven and a quarter oh yeah this hat was made for me i just have a couple of hats but i like this why you want to

try this on no no i'm not a hat guy but i have a hat that a guy sent me that one's there but that one fits me but i don't think you could wear the hat that was sent me i shouldn't take anything more into my home i like to i'm a de deaccumulator. And so I'm very careful. Yeah. But I sort of deaccumulate into this space. I see. Well, this is a beautiful artifact. This is an installation.

Yeah, it is. This isn't a hoarding, a hoarder's. Well, I got to keep it dusted. Like, that was the weird thing is that, like, I realized that, like, everything's here, but, like, I wasn't really dusting. So it started to have a sad museum vibe, you know, like a roadside museum where they don't dust and there's cobwebs and i know i don't want people walking in going like it's a little grimy i don't know yeah no well you got to get your your your lady lupe to do all her dusting in here hey i just read that article about louis ck in new

york magazine did you read that no they? No. I thought that was very inspirational and interesting. Oh, yeah? Right now in New York Magazine. Brand new. Yeah, and I know you did that number one. But I haven't heard it. The first interview was years ago. Then I just did one that's still up there

where we only talked about the creation of Horace and Pete. The other one, I'd have to send it to you, the two-parter. I'd love to. I'm so interested in it. Do I have your contact? I think I do. i do lake i'll give you everything okay lake bell she's the one who said made me of course i'm only remembering now i didn't remember that of course yeah i love her so i gotta talk to jeff and then i texted you and we kind of went back and forth now it's all coming back to me yes yes yes yeah my uncle ben he went to alaska my brother ben went to alaska that's the death

of a salesman yeah yeah yes yes he went to alaska i should have followed him up there why didn't i follow him up there oh for what you would have froze up there oh what do you know what are you talking about yeah yeah yeah we ought to do that play or the two gents two gents is what we should do yeah is it singing though right that all singing. But you're a good singer. I could do it. Sure you could. Yeah. Where's North?

I have the compass. That'd be funny. Let's do it. All right. Oh, that was fun, man. He's exactly how you want him to be and exactly who he is. And happy birthday to his kid today. Obviously, you can see

Independence Day resurgence. It's now in theaters. WTFpod.com for all your WTFpod needs. Get some posters. There's cups and things. All my tour dates are there. The episodes are there. You can get Howl, the app there,

Howl.fm for all the archives. You know, do the thing. And, yeah. Yeah, I'm a little nauseous. Am I playing guitar today? What do we got going? What do we have going? This is a Les Paul custom straight into an old Fender Champ with a little bit of reverb. guitar solo Boomer lives! Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence.

Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising.

Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Calgary is an opportunity-rich city, home to innovators, dreamers, disruptors, and problem solvers. The city's visionaries are turning heads around the globe across all sectors each and every day. They embody Calgary's DNA. A city that's innovative, inclusive, and creative. And they're helping put Calgary and our innovation ecosystem on the map as a place where people come to solve some of the world's greatest challenges. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look out at calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com.