WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 727 - Jane Lynch

Episode Date: July 25, 2016

Before Jane Lynch stole scenes in Best in Show, The 40-Year-Old Virgin, Glee, Party Down, and everything else she's ever been in, she was told she would never make it at one of the country's biggest comedy institutions. Jane and Marc talk about shaking off that ill-fated prediction and finding success as a comedic performer of the highest order. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Gold tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those, too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fucking delics what's happening i am mark maron this is my fucking podcast wtf i broadcast from my garage in the hills of highland park

from the cat ranch which is a self-designated name it's not really a ranch it's a small two bedroom house one bathroom that is slowly uh being taken back by the earth. Some repairs need to be done. Fires continue out here in LA. I'm sorry if you've been inconvenienced or you lost property. My heart goes out to you. I do not know why it happens every year. I'm sure there's an explanation.

Gets awfully dry. Perhaps the fires come from the lack of water. The lack of water in the city. But it's been a little humid and the sky gets black and apocalyptic. And last night the sun looked red. Is it? I don't know. I'm wary to drag God into it.

But, you know, on a yearly basis, I do believe that the universe, let's call it the universe the forces of nature try to reclaim and take over or destroy the la county region perhaps it's spite perhaps there's some sort of malice on behalf of the forces of nature that we here in la are busy constructing a malignant alternate reality that we feed people we feed them we create an alternate reality that manufactures uh falsehoods and fictions that end nicely or end badly but still not real but la man i had the fires creep me out i do need to fix some shit in the house i mean i know i've talked about this ongoing thing there's some ongoing themes if you've been with us since the beginning that i can't seem to shake that i'd like to shake that would sort of be relatively simple to shake it would seem today on the show uh the amazing and funny jane lynch will join me shortly if you're not connecting

that with a person you know her you know her from best in show from the 40 year old virgin from glee from party down from talladega nights from a mighty wind she was supposed to come over once before and that didn't work out because she got frustrated i believe and lost and mad a little and then uh you know we we made up for it we made up for it i'm sweating i don't have the air on i can't put the air on why i'm recording thanks for asking tour yes i will be in bloomington at the comedy attic this thursday friday and saturday i believe all those shows are sold out stand up live in phoenix august 20th for two shows still tickets albuquerque journal theater september 3rd still tickets the comedy club in rochester the 9th and 10th of September.

Don't know what's up with that. There's probably some tickets. But the bigger shows, a few theaters for the Too Real Tour with my new Too Real photo shot. At the Wilbur, September 24th in Boston. At the College Street Music Hall, September 25th in New Haven, Connecticut. At Troy Savings Bank Music Hall in Troy 25th in New Haven, Connecticut. At Troy Savings Bank Music Hall in Troy, New York, October 14th. At the Carolina Theater, November 17th in Durham. At the Knight Theater in Charlotte on November 18th. At the James K. Polk Theater in Nashville,

Tennessee, November 19th. I'm at the Vic for two shows in Chicago, december 3rd that's all that's released right now those are the dates leading up to some other things i'll let you know good i did that i self-promoted me all right buster the kitten how's buster the kitten doing buster kitten buster kitten buster he's all right the black cat kitten is okay. I posted a video on Instagram today. Yes, I did that. I posted a cat video. It's not that great, but there's a lot of heart to it.

What's happening is I have these old cats, Monkey and LaFonda. LaFonda is a slightly temperamental older female cat. temperamental uh older female cat and monkey it turns out is a a a very skittish uh and somewhat cowardly male cat and now i have this little like he must be three and a half maybe three months old you know buster kitten and and all buster wants to do is play so he's pushing up against these old cats and they're not they're not hitting them they're starting to accept it but they're not playing and i and it breaks my heart this is my little my little melodrama my little uh theater of heartbreak is to see buster just jammed with kitten energy running around looking for pals and these old cranky fucking cats are just like, and I talked about this, but it's, it's ongoing,

but it looks like monkey starting to give in. It looks like monkey is starting to, to engage and, uh, and, and, and sort of, uh, you know, become open to the kitten. You know, he's more mature than I am. It seems he's able to process, um, you know, trust a little quicker. It's only been a couple weeks. La Fonda, I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen there. I just hope that Buster doesn't lose a fucking eye. So here's the deal.

You know, you get old, you get older, you get set in your ways. You start to justify your shitty behavior. Now, mine has become more limited. You know, there's only so much I can do. But there's some part of me that thinks that I can't change or I don't want to change or I'm too old to change. I never thought I would be that guy. I do think I've changed a bit. I've evolved. and sort of kind of rewire and try to sort of disable some old machinery.

But I still got this thing. I still got this heart. I still got this heart problem that's not necessarily a physical malady. It's a mental and emotional thing. Like I just noticed that I was getting angry. You know, my relationship is, is nice. It's going well. And, and I, I don't know whether I react to stress or what happens, but I started talking about politics a little on stage. And I got to this point where I don't even really like my tone when I talk about it, because I've been so open up there. So you try to do it in an open way, but then I feel anger coming out.

And then when the anger comes up, there's a little bit of satisfaction to self-righteous anger. It feels good. It feels good to fucking swagger around up there with a very defined and biased and partisan point of view and call out the dummies and, and do that thing. I used to live in that and I, it's not very far away from me. So I feel that happening on stage and I feel like I'm distancing myself from my true self.

It's a manifestation, but it's not a good one. No one likes that. Even if you're funny, they're not going to like you. I mean, you can get laughs, but it doesn't,

they're going to be like, this guy's a little worked up but i feel it's important so sort of wrestling with how to discuss my feelings about the political climate and then um then do the other material which seems uh not irrelevant but mundane which it might be but there's a there's a lot of existential beauty in the mundane if there wasn't there'd be no poetry If there wasn't, there'd be no poetry. There'd be no painting. There'd be no art. So I felt the anger crunch. I felt the clamp coming down on my heart and it started to pervade. I started to sort of like, you know, get, you know, sort of cocky and defensive and reactive. I started engaging with trolls on Twitter. I started to

feel the juice of rage bubbling up within me and riding it, but not letting it consume me. And then over nothing, after we had a lovely day, I got mad over nothing and kind of raged around like an asshole a little bit. And it was weird in those moments where you have a little outburst, which is not unusual in the couple situation. I haven't been doing it much, and maybe it was building up, but there's other ways to communicate.

I didn't choose those. Something just popped, and you've got to get a handle on that popping. But what is that emotional injury right there? What is it that happens when you feel that pop where you're like, I mean, just opens up so fucking quickly. And then you're in the rage and it's like crack and you got to fucking come down from it. And then, you know, then, you know, you think you're justified because you have to be because you don't want to shoot down the shame shoot. You want that to be a slow decline if possible you don't want it to be immediate because then you know i don't know maybe it's a buzz kill

but whatever the fact is little little ashamed that uh that that happened that i i raged out a little bit and um just cop into it and we talked about it. And I got to fucking work on it. You know, because I've just, I've been avoiding it. I don't do it much anymore. But it happened. And, you know, it's like, I got to get a handle on this shit. You know, what is so goddamn scary? What is so threatening?

What little dumb childhood wound in this grown-up fucking rib cage needs to be carterized. Gotta carterize that fucking hole in my heart so it doesn't volcanically erupt at the at the sort of delicate moment of building intimacy.

Got to move through it. Got to focus. Got to get myopic. Got to fucking close down the distractions. You know, stay in the feelings and not fucking ruin everything. God damn it. But I guess I'm just trying to reach out. If you have this situation and you know something that I don't know about carterizing the childhood wound on my heart so it doesn't have lava emitting properties,

then we incapacitate it to keep the lava inside. So again, Jane Lynch, very exciting. I hope you enjoy it. I told you where you would know her from. Best in show, 40-year-old virgin, glee, party down, other stuff. And I was happy she stopped. It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything.

So, no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now.

For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer.

I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Bye. I had indoor cats

when I moved to the canyon and they eventually became outdoor cats and they survived. They did? Yeah, they loved it out there, you know, and they would always come home.

And now I have another cat. They passed away, both of those cats. Naturally? Naturally, yeah. In the canyon. I purposely put them down. Yeah, in the canyon. That's astounding. Yeah, we have now an eight-year-old cat who has survived, you know, most of the eight years. I mean, not that he was killed in the middle of it, but he lived elsewhere. He lived in

Berkeley with my ex. Oh, really? Now she lives with me. I live with my ex. Oh, really? really yeah it's great we we get along and it's as roommates as roommates yeah yeah we're well we don't like sleep in the same bed she has her own room right but we're we're like co-pilots in life so you both have lives outside of the life yeah yeah yeah oh yeah absolutely but she's also my assistant when i need one right and she doesn't feel like demeaned by any of that yeah she's really a perfect human being that's amazing she absolutely. But she's also my assistant when I need one. Right. And she doesn't feel like demeaned by any of that. Yeah. She's really a perfect human being.

That's amazing. She's really perfect. She's even more perfect than when we dated. I don't, oh my God, I don't even know how that happens. I know. Me just thinking about like, oh, me and my ex are roommates now. Yeah. Never.

Never. Well, I have several exes where that would not happen. Good. I just want to make sure you're a normal person. Right. It's not like, yeah, what is it? Modern love. I don't understand it. I really don't. I just want to make sure you're a normal person. Right. It's not like, what is it, modern love? I don't understand it. I really don't.

I don't understand any of it. I'm a monogamous person. If I'm in a relationship, I don't know how people do open relationships. I don't understand it. Well, I think that romance is the problem. Right. I think the expectations that come with romance, which are unnatural. You mean romantic thinking? Yeah, romantic thinking. Right romantic thinking yeah this is going to be something it's going

to complete me i mean how about the movie you complete me right it's the worst oh it's the worst um i do a live stage show we do a medley of songs um love songs yeah and we sing the stuff that you know we were brought up with those notions let it please be him and i won't last a day without you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then that's it? That's the show?

The commentary? That's it. No, no, no. Is it ironic? Yeah, it's ironic. I started out singing that song, It All Depends on You. And in between each phrase, I go, you know, romantic relationships are basically bullshit. And I tell that I basically had a renaissance in terms of thinking and I'm done with the romance.

It's stupid. So what do you look for now? Nothing. I'm a happy girl right here, right now. Right? I love it. I love the now. The romantic thing, like if somebody has romantic notions that you're with, you start to feel the pressure of them.

Oh, yeah. It's crazy. It's so high. You start to change. Yeah. And you're both acting artificially. Right. And they start getting disappointed by their idea of what you should be.

Right. And then you're like, oh, I got to rise to what their idea is of me. Oh, it's crazy. It's the biggest lie in the world. And then you end up resenting the reality of them. Yeah, exactly. It's crazy, isn't it? Lower your expectations.

I'm not who you think I am. Whoa, Nellie. Relax. So we tried to do this once before and I remember I had this horrible vision of you got lost. I got lost and I was really cranky to your assistant and I want to say right now and I know she doesn't work for you anymore. I'm sorry. I was like, you know what?

I can't leave the Los Angeles General Air because I don't know where the fuck I am. I was at a gas station where Glendale Boulevard meets the two meets because i don't know where the fuck i am i was at a gas station where glendale boulevard meets the two meets i didn't know where i was i know where that is yeah this is really this is like a day trip for you oh my god yes it's not as bad as going west no at least it's more interesting you kind of there's streets you've never seen before but i know my way going west now i know this and the trick for me is to stay on the 101 to the 134 to the two, and I got here with no problem. Right.

I don't know. I didn't know. So I apologize. I was a little. Well, I'll tell her. I'll tell Sam. Right. I just had this vision of you just aggravated in your car and just saying, fuck it, which

I've done. And I was so, you know, we all do it, I guess. It was at a time, too, when I was just too busy. Right. I was doing too much. I mean, that's a time, too, when I was just too busy. Right. I was doing too much. I mean, that's a great quality problem, but I was doing too much. And now I'm like, I got the whole day. I can hang out here as long as you want.

Oh, good. I'm settling in. Maybe we could just listen to some records or something. Yeah, why not? Let's hang. So, what, you're on break from everything? Everything. Really?

Yeah. On purpose? Who knows if I'll ever work again? It's okay. I think you've done all right. I'm kind of sitting back and loving having no plans. Was that a choice?

It sort of was. You have to make the choice because somebody like you, I imagine, are like, come on, just do this thing. Right. Yeah, that's happened and then again,

it's not happened too. It's almost like because I put that energy out there, nobody's coming in. Oh, really? It's kind of like... But you're not freaking out. You're enjoying it. No, not at all. I'm having a great time well it's sort of

astounding how long you've been in show business in a way I mean not in a bad way but I mean I was watching The Fugitive right and I'm like oh my gosh Jane Winch just being a doctor right in in 1980 straight roll right right right in Chicago I was a local hire is that is that true yeah and you and you grew up in Chicago? I grew up on the south side of Chicago in a suburb. Really? Yeah, and I worked in Chicago for probably eight or nine years before I came out here. Like a big family?

Not a real big family. We're Irish Catholic, but we kind of, you know, the rhythm kind of kicked in. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They were responsible Irish Catholics? They were responsible Irish Catholics. Not like, ah, another one. Right. Make room in the other one's room.

Right, exactly. No, there were three of us. Oh, that's it? Yeah. And what kind of family? Irish Catholic, what did your dad do? Yeah, my dad was a banker. Yeah.

And local savings and loans kind of thing. Like small bank before the big banks? Yeah, small bank. Exactly. But he worked at LaSalle National Bank, which I think now was bought up by Bank of America. But it was one of the bigger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It started out there,

and then he got progressively smaller banks, but bigger. And he was a loan guy? He was a loan guy. He had his desk at the bank? And did everything with paper. And so you would walk in, and he said, I'd like a loan.

Go see you've got Frank Lynch over there. Hey, how you doing? Sit down. So what do you got there? What do you got for collateral? I mean, it was like old school. I like those guys with the desks at the bank. They look like they're more important than anybody at the bank.

They do. And you kind of want to sit with them. Yeah. He was one of those guys. And your mom did what? My mom was a stay-at-home mother, but she didn't want to be, I don't think, deep down inside. I don't think any of them do. Yeah, really.

I think that was kind of the response to after World War II. The women basically ran everything in World War II. after World War II, you know, the women basically ran everything in World War II. Right. And then the guys came home, and so they had to develop washers and dryers and vacuum cleaners to get the women back into the house, you know. And I think my mom was like, I don't know about that. But the second she could, as soon as my younger brother was in school, she became a secretary for the school district.

That's so funny. I was about to say real estate license. Yeah. No, she didn't go that far. She was a great secretary, and she did shorthand. Oh, really? Yeah, she knew how to take shorthand, which no one does that anymore. No one?

Yeah. I remember seeing like a notebook that had shorthand on it. Right. And I'm like, what's the point of that? I can't read my regular writing. Right. But they sit down with the boss and the vast guy. I guess it was.

And then they go back and type it. And she was a great typist. And she worked until she retired. I think she was about 65 when she retired. And you're the oldest? I have an older sister who has four children. Oh, that's great. Two have lived with me at different times.

One lives with me now. How many people are living at your house, Jane? Right now, I have my friend, Jennifer, my ex and good friend. The ex and good friend, yeah. Yes, and my niece Ellen, she's 25. She lives in the guest house. And my Jennifer's son, Harry, is 23, and he lives in the guest bedroom. So there's a guest bedroom and a guest house.

Your niece lives in the guest house. Right, right. Because she wants to be here or she's- Yeah, she wants to act, and she's doing really well. She did three national commercials since she's been here a year and a half. Really? Yeah, and she looks nothing really well. She did three national commercials since she's been here a year and a half. Really? Yeah, and she looks nothing like me.

She acts nothing like me. She's a completely different human being. I like hearing stories when family members are living with other family members, and it wasn't because, like, I had to get out. Yeah, right, right. No, that wasn't it. It was a beautiful thing. And you started, like, when did you start really acting? Did you always want to do the acting thing?

Yes, I knew right away that's you always want to do the acting thing? Yes, I knew right away that's what I wanted to do. What made you know? I guess watching television. Oh, that's it? Yeah, and I remember going to see a play when I was about... I was so young that the memory is foggy. It's through mists.

It's happening to all my memories. Two hours ago, a mist. And I went to see a play at the neighborhood school with the older kids. And I remember the lights went down and the lights came up and it was this whole world. And I was so enchanted and fascinated by it. I will never forget that moment. Theater is mind-blowing. Even if you see bad theater or amateur theater.

I agree. There's something about it where it's like, this is really happening. Exactly. I agree. And you know, when I go to little towns, like I'll visit. I went to Cambria once and there was a little theater there and they weren't performing, but they were rehearsing and it said, open rehearsal, come join us. Yeah.

So I went in there and they looked at me like, what are you doing here? I said, open rehearsal. And they said, oh yeah, okay. And it was very Corky Sinclair, man. Why is Jane Lynch here? They didn't, I wasn't, I wasn't Jane Lynch back then. Oh, you weren't? The schmuck off the street.

Oh, you just kind of- This would have been like 2000. Really? Yeah, yeah. And you just kind of wandered in? I wandered in. What were you doing in Cambria, wandering around? I was with my parents, and we had just gone to the, what's his name, the place down, oh

God, the Hearst- Oh, the Hearst Castle. Yeah. Did you see the elephant seals? Yes. Oh my God. Amazing. What the fuck is going on?

I know. It's the weirdest thing i never i didn't know it existed and me and my buddy he had never done the coast we're driving down we just see people like hanging out like let's get out and there's just a thousand seals giving birth fucking beating each other up and i'm like what is happening yeah and kids are watching it there's they're still doing it i was just i just went to Big Sur, and every 15 miles, people were turned off the road watching this. It's really astounding, but it's a little rough. They're a brutal breed.

And they're huge. Oh, Hearst Castle's nice, too. Yeah, Hearst Castle was a good one. That swimming pool inside, the blue one with the gold and stuff. And did you have a decent docent? I think so. Our docent was amazing. Oh, really?

Like obsessed? Yeah, obsessed, and she was amazing. Oh, really? Like obsessed? Yeah, obsessed and she was funny and yeah, I just was enchanted with her. But you know, when you get done with it, you don't feel good about him.

No. I mean, you're like, what was he trying to do? Yeah, he was kind of a dark guy but I love that everybody went there and I love that they had to take a helicopter

and the 101 at that time was like, you could go 25 miles an hour on it so it took you five, six hours to get there at least. Just for a party. Yeah, just for a helicopter. And the 101 at that time was like, you could go 25 miles an hour on it. So it took you five, six hours to get there, at least. Just for a party. Yeah, just for a party. That's how important he was. Yeah.

Charlie Chaplin would travel seven hours to come to him in his pool. You know, Charlie Chaplin has a hotel in Montecito, which I love going to Montecito. Are you serious? It's right on the corner. It's called the Montecito Hotel. And he founded it, built it, and everything.

For any special reason or just because i think that that's when people were going to like the ranch the san jose ranch they were taking vacations there and they were helicoptering in and driving up the 101 the only story i hear about charlie chaplin either residences or x or like i've met several different people in la who said yeah apparently my house used to be like one of of Charlie Chaplin's girlfriends that he'd keep on the side. Like I've heard that like three times. Yeah. Like he just had women everywhere.

Yeah, yeah. He tucked away in bungalows. Have you ever been to Largo? Backstage at Largo? Coronet, yeah. Yeah, the Coronet. Yeah. He has several terrific pictures of Charlie Chaplin, a little older, because he used to

have an office in the Coronet. He had an office. Oh, is that true? I didn't know that. What do you do over at Largo? You do the stage show? Well, I did. I usually do Harry Shear, is that true? I didn't know that. What do you do over at Largo? You do the state show? Well, I did, I usually do Harry Shearer

and Judith Owen's Christmas thing. Yeah. But I have the state show, the live music show that I've been doing around the country and we did two nights there. We did Wednesday and Thursday.

And this is where you sing the romantic songs? Well, that's one of the numbers. It's one of the bits. Is it just you? It's me and Kate Flannery. Yeah. Kate Flannery was married

at the drunk on The Office and she's a really good friend and we've been singing together forever oh really yeah and um we have a five-piece band that is just to die for they are amazing yeah and you guys do shtick um we do a little shtick and the band gets involved yeah but it moves really fast it's hopefully very very funny and it's eclectic music. It's everything from Irving Berlin to Nicki Minaj to Mark Frishberg. I don't know if he does great funny jazz. Do you sing earnestly? I do sing earnestly. And then I sing goofing around.

Right. Do you know Jill and Faith Soloway? Yeah. They wrote a song. They're good friends in Chicago. I know Jill. Yeah, Jill and her sister is Faith, and they've been working together forever. But I've worked with them a lot in Chicago, and they're good friends.

They wrote this song called If Wishes Were Rainbows, So Am I. And so I opened with that. You met Jill from out here? Yeah. Yeah. I've not met her. Maybe I met her sister once before. I know Jill.

She's been in here a couple times. Yeah. Since I've known Jill, she's always been somebody giving birth to something fantastic and mind-blowing. Yeah. Did you know her in chicago yeah i lived with her mother what i lived in the basement of the house that she grew up in for probably a year and a half how the hell does that happen well i was here in la doing the real live brady bunch which is jill's baby jill and faith's baby we did actual episodes of the brady holy shit i forgot

we were a little bit of a cultural phenomenon no i remember i saw it in new york oh did you at the village were you there yeah then i saw you do it yes downstairs at the village gate at the village gate yeah right right oh my god yeah and then i went back to chicago and i did was doing a play and i didn't have an apartment anymore so i stayed with elaine in her basement okay so you see acting you saw plays did you act in high school? I did, yeah. I acted in, but I quit my first play. I got scared. I was doing a one-act adaptation of The Princess and the Pea,

and I was playing the king. Yeah. And I got a lot of laughs at the audition, and then the first rehearsal I didn't get any laughs, and I quit. Really? Yeah. Just freaked out? I freaked out, and then I got in my little high school theater community

I got the reputation of a quitter so I wasn't cast after that until I did a production of Godspell senior year in my theater arts class where you had to. So you always sang? Yeah. Yeah, I loved to sing. But did you want to be a serious actor? Because like, or it

didn't matter? It didn't matter. I was non-discriminating. I said yes to everything. Because you're primarily, I would say, a comic actress now. Yes, probably. Yeah. But I love to do everything. Yeah.

Well, I mean, I saw you. I saw you in the fugitive. Yeah, I was, that was serious. Yeah, very serious. You had like slides. Yes, exactly. And you had proof of something. I had proof of something and I solved some mystery about a liver sample.

It's very important. Yes, exactly. Locking eyes with Harrison Ford. He seems like an intense guy. He's very serious. I know he's been funny. I've seen him be funny. He's funny in the Star Wars movie.

Maybe not off camera. Yeah. I'm trying to think. In Star Wars movies, he was charming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think he's a guy given to levity, though.

Yeah. He doesn't impress me that way. Right, right. And he was really, really he was charming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think he's a guy given to levity, though. He doesn't impress me that way. Right, right. And he was really, really lovely to me. Yeah. But maybe not so much everybody else. Oh, really? Maybe. You're not going to say yes or no.

Not going to deny or confirm, but... No, just for a second here, I thought, would he be listening to this podcast and go, that bitch, I was so nice to her. Oh, well, that'd be exciting. Then maybe he'd have to come on here and go go like, I want to answer some of the accusations. Right, and really seriously with no sense of humor. Yeah. So when you went to college, did you do acting?

I did, yeah, at Illinois State, and it just so happens, it was the only state school I could get into because I had shitty grades, but it also had a terrific theater department, and all the kids from, now they're all grownups, of course, the Steppenwolf Theater, which is a fabled theater in Chicago. I know, yeah, yeah. With Joan Allen and John Malkovich and Gary Sinise and Terry Kinney. Tracy Letts.

Tracy Letts. Actually, he came even more after that. He's around my age. These guys were probably about eight or nine years older than me. So wait, so they were involved with your- They went, a lot of them went to Illinois State University. Really? So I had a lot of their same teachers illinois state university so i had a lot

of their same teachers and some of them would come back and teach workshops so i got to meet a lot of them like i met ronnie reed yeah um uh joan allen i don't know that joan came back to isu laurie metcalfe uh-huh um and uh so when i got to chicago i had a kind of a natural i got to be in a couple of their plays now were you in the were you actually in Steppenwolf? I was not in the ensemble, but I did about three shows. How did it work there? Because I don't know that I've talked to maybe, I don't know if I've talked to anybody who's been inside that world.

I mean, was it a troupe? Was there a core group? There was a core group, and then they would add now and again. But it was kind of a big deal. They didn't add anybody. They were known for intensity. Yes, they were known for intensity. It's an actor's theater, so it was completely revolved around the actor's art.

Everything served the actor. Not that we didn't pay attention to wardrobe and everything, but the acting process was given great reverence. And whose concept was it? Who were the guys? Gary Sinise started it. In fact, I don't think he went to college. He's the one who found the church basement in Highland Park for all of them to come.

Really? Yeah, he was sleeping in his car, and he was the one who loved Steppenwolf and named the group after them. So he was kind of the wind beneath the wings of that formation. Then came Terry Kinney and Jeff Perry. Terry Kinney's a great actor. Yeah, he's a great actor, too. I haven't seen him lately.

Yeah, he's a New York guy, I think. I think he, you know what I saw him in? I saw him in Sarah Silverman's movie. He played the drug counselor. Oh, that's right. Yeah, he was wonderful. Yeah, he was great. Yeah, just a little thing.

He's always great. Very honest. What plays did you do at Steppenwolf? I did a play called Reckless, Craig Lucas wrote, with Joan Allen and Terry directed it. Terry Kinney directed it. So you're working with Joan Allen. And Boyd Gaines.

I worked with her, yeah. I worked with her back in 19... So she was still there in... She was actually living in New York and came back and did it. And a lot of... In those days anyway,

they would be gone elsewhere but they would come back and do a play. What was that like? Great. Because you were young, right? The stars, yeah. I was just out of college

and maybe I was 28 or something but uh yeah it was a big deal not only did i know who she was from like movies and stuff but you know growing up in the theater and you know we knew who the step and what people were yeah yeah it was a pretty big mythic and then terry kinney directing it was a huge deal i did a show called terry won't talk with a guy named jim west directed it and i understudied a play called stepping out yeah which um i ended up going on and uh that was a great thing and then i did a uh that was a wonderful play then i did a play called uh inspecting carol that i did while i was living with elaine soloway so it was after the brady in the basement and i was living in the basement and

doing that theater inspecting carol yeah with aust Austin Pendleton. Eric Simonson directed it. Did Steppenwolf stay in the same location? Was it actually a basement? No, it moved. It was in Highland Park first, and I didn't know that. That was way back in the early days. And then it moved to the Jane Addams Hole house

on Broadway in New York, and it was kind of still in a basement. And then it moved to a theater on Halstead, and they were there. That's where I've performed. I did the last show that was there, and now they've got this huge... They're theater on Halstead. And they were there. That's where I've performed. I did the last show that was there. And now they've got this huge, they're still in Halstead. They have this huge, beautiful state-of-the-art theater that was sponsored by United Airlines or something like that.

And I did the second play there. Okay. Yeah, so that's a wonderful play. So Malkovich never came back. He did. I think he did. When you were around. Yeah, he did i think he did he did when you were around play with now yeah he did he did

a play with joan allen and i can't remember what it was called but it was a two-hander and i forget what it was called burn this was it did you see yes it was burn this and they went to broadway with it yeah that was like in the 90s i saw that i saw that well yeah i mean i don't see a lot of theater but i remember at some point when i was younger being a huge Malkovich fan and going to see Burn This and just like him running around yelling. Yeah. Yeah. He's very good at that.

Yeah. He's great at yelling. He's a great yeller. Yeah. Did you see Bomb and Gilead? No, I didn't. That was amazing. That was Laurie Metcalf's big star turn.

I think it's Lanford Wilson. Yeah. Yeah. It's really dark. Yeah. And she's kind of the yokel from the south side of chicago he's in the big city sitting at a sitting at a diner and all these characters and yeah she was fantastic do you go to theater i do yeah i go here here um not so much i don't know where it is

yeah i don't know where it is i'm gonna get a lot of bad emails we're doing a show right now exactly you know i did theater here too i did some like on santa monica boulevard to get a lot of bad emails. We're doing a show right now. Yeah, right. Exactly. You know, I did theater here, too. I did some on Santa Monica Boulevard. I did a lot of sketch comedy where Upright Citizen Brigade is. I did a show. The Tamarind? Yeah, the Tamarind. A lot of shows there.

My first one-person show, and I'm doing air quotes for those who can't see me because I had like four people in it. So that implies to me that when you got, like all those theaters, I just assume, are just filled with relatively good actors. Yeah, like the Hudson. Who are just trying to get something done. Yeah, do their thing. Yeah, and that's when I first got here. That's what we did.

There was like a group of us. We had done the Real Life Brady Bunch, and we absorbed other people. Like Will Ferrell did stuff with us. We had this thing called the Beachwood Palace Jubilee that we used to do every Monday night. Wait, but wait. Let's go from wait. So did you go to graduate school? Yeah. Oh, yeah.. Let's go from wait. So did you go to graduate school? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Let's go back. I went to graduate school after Illinois State. I went to Cornell in upstate New York. To acting, for real. Right. And they had a two-year MFA program, and I got a nice little scholarship.

You know, it was really good, but I got to tell you, the training I got at ISU was really fantastic. So like two-year Cornell, that's a fancy school. It's a fancy school. And a two-year, like- Kind of a small theater program, though. MFA in theater. Right. And I did Curse of the Starving class there, among other things, which, that's a fancy school. It's a fancy school. And the two-year is like- Kind of a small theater program, though. NFA in theater? Right. And I did Curse of the Starving class there, among other things, which is a Sam Shepard

play. Oh. And so were there like 12 of you? Was it like that small? Very small, yeah. In my class, there were probably eight. And the class, you know, eight to 10, 10 max. And are you doing all this stuff?

Like you go sword fighting and all the other training? Yes, exactly. Alexander Method? Yes. And we did this thing called American Mime. What is that? It's this mime troupe in a very weird group of people from New York. I don't even know if it exists anymore.

And it's almost militaristic. There's a certain way it's tension release. And after a two-hour class, you're crying with fatigue. And people are like, the only thing you're allowed to say is, I am exalted, or I am diminished. Yeah, that's all you can only express an extreme, but you have to be quiet. And the teacher, you know, is really like a drill sergeant. And you have to jerk around. Yeah, well, it's, it's, it's, it's very controlled. Tension release. Interesting. And if your stomach sticking out, they slap it.

Really? Yeah. Oh my God. Yeah, so it was really good. It was really good. It was kind of like... Did you do ballroom dancing and stuff? We didn't do ballroom dancing.

We did movement and ballet. Ballet. Ballet. Ballet was so good, especially for me and most of us. We weren't dancers, so we had to learn this very precise, controlled kind of bar movements.

And you do it to this very precise, controlled kind of bar movements. Yeah. And you do it to this beautiful music, classical music. Every time I hear those pieces now, my feet kind of want to do the thing. Yeah. And I'm not a good dancer, but it was such a beautiful thing to get in touch with your body that way. It's their small, beautiful movements. Well, that's what all of it does, right? Because sometimes I talk to actors who didn't necessarily study acting.

Well, that's what all of it does, right? Because sometimes I talk to actors who didn't necessarily study acting. And a lot of them, there is a certain natural ability that you either have or you don't. Yes. But a lot of the people that didn't train as actors in college or anything, they're just like, I don't know what my process is. Yeah. But whether you use that stuff or not, it integrated into you. Well, you get to, like they said, my teachers at Cornell, one guy said, we don't want you

to look like you rented your body this morning. Yeah. We want you to be in touch with it all the way to the tips of your fingers so you're not at the mercy of it. Right. You are in control of it. It's your clay. Yeah. You know, it's your medium.

And we did fencing. Another thing, you know, after an hour of fencing, you're dripping sweat and wanting to cry. Yeah. And we had this Olympic guy who used to coach the French Olympic team. His name was Jean-Jacques Gillet. And I remember he would say- Of course it is. Has to be his name.

No, we'd say, your feet have to be fleet on the floor. Now I just did a Russian accent. That's okay. But that's all right. Like I said, I did not excel in accents. I could do a lot, but accents and dancing. Just mix them up. Yeah, right.

As long as it's your interpretation. We gave the guy the right name. Right. Remember Christopher Guest in Waiting for Guffman when he's talking about doing My Fair Lady, and he says, I can't wait to get out of this L-O. That's supposed to be his Cockney accent because they drop their H's. L-O. He's so funny.

Yes. So you go to cornell you fence dance i fence you do some american mind some draining mind exactly then you go to steppenwolf and you're in chicago so at what like how's your life are you uh are you like uh ambitious are you fucked up or what i'm fucked up too yeah ambitiously fucked up yeah i'm um drinking a lot oh yeah with the steppenwolf people yeah and not necessarily you know i mean i was in the theater community we played softball and i was also uh you know uh in and out of the closet don't let anybody know so i would go to this bar literally called the closet oh really and um so that was your your sneak away that was my sneak away. So I suffered around everything.

That's Catholic, right? Yeah, exactly. Have to. And I was very much involved in non-equity stuff where they don't pay you. So I would work temp during the day. I was in a Shakespeare company. Holy shit, you did Shakespeare too? We did Shakespeare. Well, we did it out at schools, and then we would do little shows.

We would do shows in the park. And then I got cast at second city in the touring company oh you right to the touring company well that you know that's kind of where you start i didn't take classes no but that trajectory of classes to the touring company really never happened that that that was just to sell classes oh really yeah so the touring company that's that's hardcore kind of it well it is except it's it's um uh set it's a set show. You're not improvising. You're doing, you know, the greatest hits of scenes. Are you doing pretend improvising?

A little bit. No, we do a little bit. We do games. Like, I don't have a first-line dialogue in a location. Thank you, ma'am. And Faith Soloway was our piano player. Well, he's a piano player. Faith, that's where you met Faith?

Yeah. And you don't go, you don't do the main stage? No, I did not. I did not graduate up. I never got asked to the show, as they say. I was, I understudied Bonnie Hunt a lot. I got on stage and got to do her stuff, which kind of suited me very well. She's, I think she's pretty brilliant.

Yeah. But no, I was, I remember I said to Joyce sloan who was the woman at the head of it and made these decisions i would go in periodically because i was told to this just go in and remind her that you're here and that you'd love to be on a stage so i would go in and the last time i went in she said she looked up and said jane stop you will never be on a stage okay Okay? I'm sorry, honey. And she went back to work. Really? And I was just devastated. Just devastated. Well, I think you did all right.

I did okay. And you know what? Do those stories, is there any sort of schadenfreude-like satisfaction? No, not really. No, not really. But I got,

she sent me, Andrew Alexander actually sent me flowers when I won an Emmy for Glee. So I thought that was very nice. Very nice. But you'll never see my name. They won't claim me.

You know, you have to be on a stage to say, you know, people who have been with Second City. They have all these people. My name will never be on there. Because you have to have been on a stage. Wow, you think they'd just go ahead and make an exception yeah maybe they will someday she was almost here she was almost yeah put a little asterisk by my name i don't care people who were ready to go right people who were unfairly shunned so okay so is that where you started your relationship with uh no with the solways like uhwolf? No, with the Salloways. Yeah, yeah.

Well, you know, it kind of happened, but I got a job almost immediately doing a play at Steppenwolf right after that. So I was rewarded. Well, that was after Second City. Yeah, that was after Second City. But, you know, I met Faith through Second City. And we started, when Mick Napier started the Annoyance Theater, he had Wednesday nights free and he had this overhead that was really crazy.

He had to make this rent. He said, Jill and Faith, do whatever you want. Just get butts in the place. And so they decided to do real live episodes of the Brady Bunch. We don't have to write anything. And we'll just transcribe the script, which Jill would do. And we all went to resale shops, got outfits for ourselves and had our first rehearsal, and we're dying laughing, having so much fun. And so they announced it, and we were up on the roof drinking beer and having pizza before the first show, and we looked down, and there was a line down Broadway around to, yeah,

just a drive. Caught on. Yeah, it was like, from the second it was announced. Really? It was packed, and Mick loves drinking and smoking, So he allowed people to smoke and drink in the theater. And we had old couches and old... I mean, it was a fire hazard. Right.

But it was a raucous, fun, good time. And who was... Hutzel. Melanie Hutzel. Oh, Melanie Hutzel, who did play Jan. Yeah, yeah. Melanie Hutzel, Becky Thayer. Becky Thayer.

Pat Town. Richter. Andy Richter. Me. My friend Mary Weiss played Alice. Yeah. And then we had a bunch of guest stars. How long did it run there?

It ran in Chicago for about, let me think. Our first commercial was, well, it's the summer of 1990. And I think we went to New York in 91, like the spring of 91. And then we came out here in the spring of 92 with that with the show to westwood playhouse and when did you so when did you decide to move here i went home after the westwood playhouse to do live with jill's mom and do the play at steppenwolf inspecting carol and then i came back here after the run in la yeah after the run then i came back here in probably 93 and i got an apartment and I haven't left.

And that was it? That was it. I was here. So how bad, like, you know, in terms of like, when did you finally, you know, come out? Like, you mean got out of the closet? Yeah. Oh, no. It was never official.

It just kind of happened. You know? It just kind of happened. You didn't need to announce? I didn't need to. I didn't have to have a press conference. I remember there's this story of one of the guys in our group who everybody knew he was gay and he wasn't out yet. And he said to Mick one day, Mick Napier, who's kind of fluid in terms of his sexuality, said, Mick, can we have margaritas tonight?

And Mick's looking at his watch going, yeah, sure. He knows exactly what it is. Right. I have to talk to you about something. Okay. So he's got so much to do that night, too. It was the night the Brady's opened or something. So they're having having margaritas he's eating the salsa and he's looking at his watch he goes okay what's up what's up he goes well i think i'm gay and he said i knew that now let's

get back to work you're okay with it i'm fine with it i'm fine what do you think was gonna happen no i don't know you i don't know you you're not my friend anymore that doesn't happen so i didn't do that i didn't have any of those moments yeah just kind of but you you grew more comfortable with oh yes yeah yeah yeah and how like in in terms of your comfort factor around that how did that coincide with alcohol use um interesting i bet they probably went hand in hand i haven't really thought about it but you know i got sober sober while we were doing the, because I was a big drunk doing the first, the Brady Bunch at Chicago. Were you messy?

Were you known? No. I wasn't messy. Everybody else was much messier. Right. And they're still drinking and they're fine with it. Bastards. I know.

I don't know how they do it. Yeah, I haven't drank. 16 years I got. Oh, yeah? Oh, good for you. Yeah. Well, I'm still, I'm having a glass of wine. Oh, yeah.

That's nice. But, I mean, it's 25 years. Right. So, I think I'm going to be fine. She said the last time anyone interviewed her. Right. Exactly. Jane's final interview.

She's not dead. She's just at home. Right. Exactly. She hasn't left. Hasn't left the house. Yeah. So that, yeah, I didn't get sloppy.

But I think I started getting much lighter as a person around the age of 33 when I got sober. Just like our Lord Jesus Christ left the planet at that point and ascended. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I ascended in my own way. Uh-huh. And everything became lighter. Everything.

Lighter, you mean you felt better with yourself? I was happy. I was giggling happy. Oh. Kind of in a bliss that's never left me. Really? Yeah. I don't get to i haven't you

know knock on wood i haven't been depressed in decades and what you don't what do you attribute that to i think i dropped stuff with you know it just happened yeah i don't think you can consciously do it like i got struck sober i really just woke up one day and i was done well you well you have a very like um like you seem to have a strong personality around that around things like decision making and yeah but it wasn't conscious and it wasn't like a you know uh do you is it a spiritual moment for you i think it's a spiritual moment yeah i'm trying to describe something in a soundbite that's really i think quite uh something you can't and you and you you see it that way i mean yeah well i experienced

it that way yeah that's okay i guess if i were to tell the story of my life that i would put it in the spiritual the white light moment. Right, exactly. But you don't, you don't attribute it to, but your spirituality is fluid? Well, I hope I live in a good state of presence as much as I can. Presence. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think, you know.

Is that a Buddhist word? Like, how is that word? Like, I understand the word and I like it and I know, I feel when I'm on stage and I think we do what we do for that immediacy. It's like hooking into that thing where the ego doesn't really exist and where trying and effort doesn't exist. It's just kind of a. Right, right. So like did any of that coincide with you?

Getting sober? Well, no, not so much getting sober, but to have that thing to like the happiness thing. Because the only time that's happened to me is recently because like I finally got to a point where I wasn't just trying to get somewhere. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And, you know, I stopped trying to get somewhere. Right. I was still very yes, yes.

And I was driving. I had a little red golf. I still have a red golf. I just bought a new one. Yeah. I was driving around in my little red golf and going to auditions. And I was like, hey, I want to do voiceover. Let me get a voiceover agent.

Hey, I want to do this. I want to do commercials. I wonder if there's a way I can start doing guest spots on sitcoms. When you got here. Yeah, when I got here. And I was lucky in that I had an agent from Chicago who also had an office here in Los Angeles. And so I kind of hit the ground running. And it was, even though, though i mean i wasn't a

star and i wasn't rich everything was flowing so nicely and you're enjoying yourself i was enjoying myself i was loving it loving loving loving it well that's great so what was this thing you did out here with um will ferrell and those people how did that go it was called the um beachwood palace jubilee and we had this guy who really really funny guy, who did this emcee named Adamola Oleg Bafola. Everybody would do their gigs. They'd come in, like the Roxbury guys. Kristen Will came in and did it at our thing, and Ana Gasteyer would do her thing.

Molly Shannon would do her thing, and then we'd do things together. We'd do scenes. So there were a lot of groundling people. Yeah, a lot of groundling people. And then, of course, all of us, too,

from the Real Live Brady Bunch. So it was a variety show thing. Yeah, it was a variety show. And at the end, we always did a

musical number we had no business doing. Something like It's a Hard Knock Life we did once. We did Good Morning Starshine. We did a chorus line.

We did At the Ballet. Such funny people yeah it was great it was hilarious it was a night to be reckoned with i bet it was monday nights and we did it probably a couple years i mean will ferrell's like you just sit there with when when you're around he wasn't there every day but no no but like he's one of those oddly kind of like how how do you get that funny yeah i know it's why i don't know where it comes from i saw him in a monday show um at the groundlings way back when yeah i first got here and every scene was absurd and weird and done with such love and such joy and then chris katan used to do this thing where you climb up him like a monkey yeah and will would just stand there and he you know kind of help him

and he'd climb all the way up to his neck and then grab a hold of him it's hilarious i'd never seen anything like that so were you doing all that when you came out here so you you know you had a good agent you had you know these great friends yeah and you know the brady bunch had a great reputation so you're hanging out with top-notch funny people right but you didn't want to be in the groundlings uh yeah i didn't even think about it oh okay yeah you were done yeah i think i was done with it. Yeah, the training. And where I was, the people I was working with, I didn't even cross my mind to take a class or anything. Right. So you just started working.

Yeah. And you would do anything. I would do anything. Absolutely. Yeah, I did anything. I mean, short of porn. Right. I would.

At one point, I stopped doing the sketch stuff, and it was falling away for all of us. Yeah. But I remember going, I don't want to do another closing number in my underwear. We did a lot of that, too. A lot of pantyhose and briefs. You got to for the closer. You have to. Come on.

You got to close big. We got to put it out there. And so I started doing, I took a bunch of my stuff, like monologue stuff I had done alone, and I started bringing it, like there was a show at Highways that Terry Sweeney was putting on and I met people like Taylor Negron Taylor yeah he was amazing he was an amazing monologue

yeah yeah and Kathy Griffin great rhythm yeah he did he had this thing where he was talking about Uggs yeah

how wonderful they are in the snow yeah and his voice would trail off right yeah he was just so that was that

Uncabaret crew yeah I guess it wasn't was just the- So that was that UnCabaret crew. Yeah, I guess. It wasn't- A little before? Yeah, but it wasn't UnCabaret. It wasn't- Maybe it was a little before. Yeah.

Or maybe it was at the same time, but- So it was Kathy Griffin. Kathy Griffin and I can't remember, Nora Dunn. Yeah. So I met a lot of people who were stand on their own types, who did their own thing. And so I started doing my own thing. What was your own thing? My first thing was this character I called the Angry Lady.

And I wore a neck brace. I had an eye patch. I had a broken middle finger. And she was just a victim. And everything was about how she was minding her own business. Oh, that's so funny. And somebody passed her on the right while she was on her bicycle. And she broke her neck.

And I'm going to sue everybody within a 20-mile radius. And she could barely talk. She had to talk into within a 20 mile radius and she could barely talk. She had to talk into the microphone like this. And she was so angry and I came on to the Ride of the Valkyries music. Uh-huh. And that fogger. Woo!

Woo! So that was my first one and then I took a monologue class and one of the people in the class was Nora Dunn who's a wonderful writer and a wonderful girl. Good actress.

Yeah, and a great actress. And we all started writing. Yeah. Marshall Wilkie, too, another wonderful writer. Writing for characters? Yeah, writing for characters. And yeah, I guess that's what ended up. Yeah, they were monologues.

Was Julia Sweeney around? She was not around, but she was doing her show at that time. Yeah, right. And then I cobbled together all these monologues and all these characters and some silly little lesbian folk songs that I'd come up with. And I put a show together and put it on a tamarind

and I called it Oh Sister, My Sister. And it was deeply feminine tales of the deep feminine. And I had a couple of friends in it. I had a friend who did the sound and at that time it was cassette tapes. So every time a sound cue was coming up, she'd click play, eject, click play. So that was her job. And a lighting guy.

And I had my two friends in it, and it was great. It was a lot of fun. Great little theater. Yeah, great theater. Did you find that was, like, I imagine at this point that to the gay and lesbian community, you're somewhat of a hero on some level well at that i took that show to the gay and lesbian center and i premiered it i was one of the first shows at the lily tomlin jane wagner theater and so yeah that's when i

started getting a little cred in the lgbt community uh-huh did you meet lily i yes i met lily under different circumstances later on, and she's the best. Yeah? I've given her awards. We're honoring Lily Tomlin. I'm like, I'll do it. I'll make the speech. Who does the Lily Tomlin awards?

Jane Lynch usually does them. Jane Lynch does them, yeah. And she gave me one. Oh, she did? Yes. How great was that? Oh, just a peak experience. Doesn't get any better than that.

It's sort of amazing. Like, I can't. The evolution of that community in general is a beautiful thing. Yeah, it is. Because, like, in your lifetime, the differences in how people live is extraordinary. It is. It's just a huge leap. And now, and this is what I hope will happen.

I mean, I bet it happens on the coasts first. Yeah. And this is what I hope will happen. I mean, I bet it happens on the coasts first. Now, hopefully, it's just such a non-brainer, no-brainer that we don't even need a gay and lesbian center. I think we will always need a gay and lesbian center, though, for the kids who are in the flyover states that don't have the support that we have here. So we always need a place to, you know. And for all kids.

All kids need a place to go where they're loved, you know. Right, to feel accepted. And feel accepted, you know. Yeah, it's weird. And for all kids. All kids need a place to go where they're loved, you know. Right, to feel accepted. And feel accepted, you know. And I know there's a lot of straight kids out on the street, too. The Gay and Lesbian Center specializes in getting

those gay kids that have been kicked out of their house. But what about just the sweet, sensitive, chubby ones? I know. And you know what?

They are not turned away, which is wonderful. What about the people that just don't know how to talk to the other people but they're good folks inside exactly how everybody deserves a place of refuge yeah it's well it's sort of interesting that there's a philosophy of like you know come on fight it out high school's

high school but like you know high school's ruined quite a few people it sure has boy you know you know what i mean like not gay aside gay just, like, people who are sensitive. Yeah. Like, if they don't gravitate towards some sort of nerdy pastime, they might be full-on loners. Well, the great thing about the world today is that the people like Bill Gates are now our heroes. Yeah. I mean, take a look at the face on that guy. When he's now and when he was a kid, I'm sure he probably, but he had such confidence in what he knew.

You know, and I think that it's revenge on the nerds right now. It is. You know? Yeah. And culturally, I think we're getting a little exhausted of the nerds. I've had it with the nerds, actually. Me too. I think they need to go back to be marginalized.

Can we just go back to, like, entertaining everybody? Right. I don't know enough about comic books or sci-fi movies. Right. Yeah. So, all right. So, how do you, how does it happen that you, you know, start defining yourself as a comic actress?

When does the relationship occur? You did commercials and everything? I never defined myself as anything. I really didn't. It's just the stuff. It's like they the world did. Right. That's fine.

They defined me. But you did commercials and you did like voiceovers and little things. Right, and guest spots on sitcoms and stuff like that. So you were just around. Yeah, I was kind of in a position that there isn't a world for it anymore, that kind of middle class actor. Right. It's either feast or famine in the business. Well, there are a few of them, but they're the only ones working.

Yeah, right, exactly. There's a middle class actor, but there's nine of them. There's nine of them. Exactly. Right. But there was when you were starting. Yeah. There was a place and there was enough.

Well, it seems like there's a lot of stuff being made, but there might not be a lot of stuff being seen. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. You mean now? Yeah. Yeah. There's so much being made now.

I guess there's not a lot of stuff being made for no money. Yeah. Is the difference. But there's so much on television now. It seems to me that there lot of stuff being made for no money is the difference. But there's so much on television now. It seems to me that there can be a middle class actor maybe. I'll bet there is. Because, you know, there's shows I've never seen. Oh, people bring shows up all the time.

They're like, have you seen this? It's in its fourth season. I'm like, what the fuck? Where is it? Bates Hotel. I watched the first episode yesterday. It's an amazing show. I didn't even know about it.

Well, like you said before, though, you run out of time. I don't even know how people have time to have dinner with people. Yeah, I know. I just, you know, when you do what we do, you're sort of half self-employed. And if you're employed, you know, that's completely consuming. And then when you're not doing something steady, you got a million other things going on. Right, right. So there's no time for anybody.

That's why you just have a community in your house. Yes. Because you don't have to... I've got the warm bodies right there. Yeah. You just have dinner there right but i would say wouldn't you say that the first time that you really sort of became defined as a comic actress was with chris yes absolutely yeah i was doing a commercial

um for uh kelly's frosted flakes and he really he directed it oh yeah so i went through the audition process and then at the call back there he was directing a process i guess everyone's gonna make a living he directs commercials all the time he does the espn the hilarious espn commercials if you ever laugh out loud in a commercial christopher guest does he do it because he likes to i think because he likes to he does not need the money right i think he did he does it because he loves it because like because like advertising people that if you're in the funny advertising people game, I mean, that's a very competitive, sometimes very brilliant little world. Yeah, it is.

It is. The Joe Pitka's. Yeah, absolutely. And one of the rules that Chris has, and he has it when he makes a movie, too, is nobody is allowed to have any input. So that can be maddening for a client. But they do it they do it anyway they are off in a room like the the kellogg's people were off in a room not allowed to talk to us not allowed to talk to him oh okay so that's his fuck you yeah

i had to assume there had to be a fuck you in there somewhere i think he collaborates in the beginning but then in the you know he basically says this is how it goes and you know when he's creating and he's doing his thing. And that's how you met him? That's how I met him, yeah. And then he just loved you? I guess so. Wouldn't that be nice?

Yes. And I love him, too. He told me at lunch when we were doing Kellogg's Frosted Flakes thing, he said, you know, I do movies. And I'm like, yeah. I'm waiting for Guffman. Come on. It's Final Tap. And he said, you know, maybe doing another one. I hope we can work together again.

And I said, I would love that. And then I ran into him at a restaurant about six months later. Yeah. And he went, oh, yeah, Jane, I forgot about you. Come to my office today. Yeah. And by the end of the day, he had asked me to go to Vancouver to do Best in Show. So that's how that came down.

That's a great character. Yeah. Oh, that was, you know, thank you. Oh, my God. That's so funny. Jennifer Coolidge. Oh, my God. The best partner a girl could ask for it's hilarious her maiden voyage with the christopher guest people yeah was that her first time it was her first time where did she come from she we know she'd

been around she was i had seen her around she's about my age right i had seen her around she'd done she tv yeah remember she tv a little bit it was really funny and um she was at the groundlings right she was a groundling but that Right. She was at Groundlings. But that role for her was just hilarious. Yeah, that was her breakout. Yeah, she was just firing on all cylinders. And now when you work with him, it's a lot of improv. It's all improv.

Yeah. And there's no rehearsal, and he just shoots. So that experience, how did that change your whole life? Well, it changed my career for sure, because people knew who I was, and kind of kind of almost by name so that was nice and i started getting offers as opposed to having to audition which i loved um uh and then uh yeah but how many of them were for for uh butch women there were a lot near let me tell you i had a brilliant agent yeah um who would send me out for things for that were written for men uh-. And then the casting directors get to feel like they were thinking outside of the box when they cast me.

So I got a lot of those roles. Got a lot of doctors, therapists, cops, detectives. That were written for men. That were written for men. Now, when Glee happened, did you have any, how did that happen? That, you know, I knew Ryan Murphy. I had done a really funny guest spot on popular

very popular it was an insane hilarious i played like five different people and um we had a blast and uh then 10 years later he offered me sue sylvester which was kind of a cool thing yeah and um i guess the sue sylvester was not in the pilot, and Kevin Reilly, who was running Fox at the time, said, you need a villain. And so Ian Brennan, who is the guy who actually is, Glee was his brainchild, and he's one of the darkest, funniest guys I've ever met. He's a Chicago guy, too. Also, when you meet him, he's all light.

He's very, oh. But he writes really dark stuff, and he created Sue Sylvester. He's very, oh. But he writes really dark stuff. And he created Sue Sylvester. And so I was the recipient of his crazy manic darkness for six and a half years. It's done? Yeah.

I didn't know that. Yeah. It ended at, let's see, we did five and a half seasons, actually. But it was six and a half years. I guess the last episode was on about a year ago. And it's like it was hugely successful. Yeah, especially beginning yeah yeah it changed like it changed culture yeah it did i mean a lot of kids just uh you know it would really helped kids who love to sing and love to do plays and stuff like that and it showed the cool kids doing it as well and i think it might

have brought the musical back uh yeah yeah on tv, no, but I mean in general. Yeah, I think people, yeah, I think kids, and adults too love this show, they kind of stuck to the musical format. Not 100%. Right. But you know how a musical is, you don't sing a song unless you are in such a state as a character that the only way to express yourself is through music. We didn't always stick to that. Right.

But yeah, I think it did. It revived the musical in a lot of people's hearts. Yeah. Because like, I don't know. Some people are very. Did you grow up with music? Yeah, I did. I loved them.

Yeah. Rodgers and Hammerstein. Because I have. I'm affected by them. But I don't seek them out. You don't seek them out. I love it. Like if I go to one I'm immediately emotional

because people are singing and I find that to be so vulnerable it is isn't it it's one of the most vulnerable things dancing too I think so too

I totally think so standing up there and going it's just it's so revealing right then I got emotional it is it is raw

but people who sing they don't really think that way necessarily because they're singers but to somebody like I think because I'm so to me it's such a vulnerable place to be yeah i agree but to people who just belt it

out they're like what are you talking about just get up there and put it out there but i think the reason we we respond to it is because it they express for us too you know and i think that's why a lot of kids want to be singers because they they feel something so deep that they don't even understand yeah and and they can uh experience some release and some catharsis through singing yeah and it's so human like when you see like it's that theater thing again i've been talking about this for to a few people i think like like even when you go to the opera i don't have any idea what the hell the opera is i've only been to one or two yeah but but you forget that like you it's not amplified you just

have someone up there singing over an orchestra of wooden instruments. Well, now it's amplified. No, I know. Yeah, but the vulnerability is still there because of the human factor. Yes. And you don't see that very much. Right. And with singing, like with musicals, you can hear the foot stomping.

Yeah. You're like, oh, my God. It's so real, isn't it? It's a world. It's a whole world, and it's lit. It's alive. isn't it it's a world it's it's a whole world and it's lit it's alive and do you want to do a musical i do yeah i did annie on broadway over the two summers ago really stepped in for miss hannigan for two months how was that oh the best i hadn't been on stage in probably 25 years really and i just had the best time and that's why i started

doing the stage show i had so much fun what kind of venues are you doing the stage show in? A lot of performing arts centers. Huge 1,500 seat theaters. Subscription theaters? Yeah, a lot of subscription theaters. That's good. Some gorgeous places. Like we were just in Omaha.

And they have this performing arts center that is just gorgeous and with the best acoustics in the world. And everybody came out if they filled the joint. Yeah. Same thing in Minneapolis. But then we'll do smaller places. That's a great theater town though. Yeah. Minneapolis is a very great theater. Minneapolis is a great theater town, though. Yeah, they are. Minneapolis is a very great culture town.

Yep, indeed they are. Yeah, so we are a lot of performing arts centers. And then, of course, we just did Largo, which was a joy, about 300 seats. It was so much fun. We're going to do- Did the Hollywood people come out? Hi, Jane. They kind of did.

They kind of didn't, too. Yeah. It was a mix of people. It was a blast. There were a lot of great people that kind of didn't, too. It was a mix of people. It was a blast. There were a lot of great people that came out. That surprised me. I don't know about you, but I don't like to know who's in the audience. Oh, no, I never do.

It bothers me sometimes. I just want to do the show. Yeah, it bothers me to know that. Because then you're sort of like, well, that person's going to judge me that way. Exactly. Because I'm judging them. Yes. And I barely know them.

I know I judge them. Of course they're judging me. Yeah, I don't like to know who's out there. In fact, people come and go, yeah, you know who's coming? And I go, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't. And when we do the,

we're doing a big tour in June all over the country, we're doing like 21 dates. God help let my voice last through that whole thing. Do you take care of it? Do you have tricks? Do you know things?

Not really. No, I don't have tricks, but I don't, you know, I was just just gonna say i don't drink and smoke but i right i've been doing a little bit of that lately maybe i have to cut that out um yeah i'm pretty good at you know getting my sleep and stuff so i think i should be did you take voice training no no not at all i have very strong pipes naturally knock on wood wow and there have been times that i that i've lost them like i got acid acid reflux where it was burning my esophagus and my voice started to suffer and oh my god i took it for granted for

so many years it's delicate it's a it can be a delicate thing i don't want to treat it like it's too delicate but you know i got to watch out i took one one singing lesson because someone gave it to me as a gift and i almost cried oh really why well because it's like i just find you like like that place where you find all your breath yeah it's like you just feel like no this is no this is very close to crying yeah yeah it is there's nothing like it no there isn't i got to do more of it yeah we're you know we've been doing the show a lot so both kate and i are probably in the best voice we've been in a long time and this guy tim davis also sings with us he was the vocal arranger on glee and he's got an amazing voice how do you know her kate yeah i'm from chicago we both were at the annoyance theater at the same time so she's from there too yeah she's actually from philadelphia but she came

out to she's a riot yeah she is she's and she's one of the nicest people in the world and she's the best freaking sidekick ever she really i kind of do an eve arden type thing and she's the best freaking sidekick ever. She really, I kind of do an Eve Arden type thing and she's my Kay Ballard, you know. It's such a great little match, you know. It's just, I love her. I couldn't do this show without her. She's the best. I can't believe how much film and television you've done.

See, I never say no. Like I'm sitting here, like I pull this up sometimes. Like maybe there's a couple things we need to, I never say no. Like, I'm sitting here, like, I pull this up sometimes. Like, maybe there's a couple things we need to, there's too much. Yeah, well, that's. And then, like,

there are these moments with your resume, you're like, oh, shit, she was, oh, yeah. A lot of those roles. Yeah, yeah, it's exactly, oh, yeah, oh, of course.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I just remembered Afternoon Delight, Jill's movie. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah. Of course. But I just remembered Afternoon Delight, Jill's movie. Yeah, yeah. The therapist. That was hilarious. Oh, thank you. I was doing her therapist. She's got such a great view on people.

And the most interesting people. Do you knew the person? I didn't. The most interesting people cross her path. It's just like she magnetizes the most interesting. And she's one of the most accepting and compassionate people that's what that's what's interesting about her because it's sort of hard to peg her personality if you just talk to her but like she's you know she's very um uh um what do i want she's got this

weird mixture of uh completely defined yet seemingly boundaryless yeah yeah exactly yeah she'll go anywhere with you. Right, it's tricky because she's definitely has a core, it's strong, it's planted. But when you're with her, you're like, you're not sure where, you know, like there's a porousness to it that is open. That's a great way to put it.

Yeah, it's hard to- And she's curious. Yeah, well, I think that helps. Yeah, yeah. Why do you think you did that? Right. Do you think, A, is it because of blah, blah, blah? Do you think B you did that right do you think you do you think a is it because of blah blah blah do you think b because you know really or is it a combination you know she's

interested in motivation and what makes people tick on a deep level not the superficial you know what i just felt when you told me that i have to do that now i have to like i should really be more like that more more curious yeah about that about that specifically. Especially in this job. Why do you always do that? Yeah. Right, exactly. Well, I don't want people to feel weird at their interview. Like, you know, they say one sentence and I'm like, but wait, why did you?

Why did you say that? No, no, it's deeper than that. Uh-oh. Now we're in therapy. Exactly. But I'd go there with you. Sure. I'd go there with you.

Well, I feel like we've gone some places. What's going on with your personal life? You good? I'm great. Yeah. You know, I'm very happy. I don't have any desire for partnership or romance. So that takes a lot of pressure.

So you don't have a partner? No. No. But, I mean, Jen's like my partner. Right. But we're not, you know. Right. You know, we're not kissing.

Right. Right. And, yeah, I'm happy. I go out to dinner with my friends and I. But you just like, do you randomly kiss people? No. No. No interest.

You're just sort of taking a break. Sometimes in my dream. I'll have a dream about somebody and I'll kiss them and then I wake up and go, eh. But did you have that realization where you're like, you know, relationships, sexually, sexual relationships with responsibility are after a certain point point, like, oh, taxing. Yes. I get overwhelmed. And I think I've always been that way.

Yeah. And I just didn't want to admit it because I was under the influence of the social meme that says, one must find a partner. And also, once I let that go, I was all right. Maybe you were a little compelled by the drama, because drama is very compelling. Yeah, and you feel you're alive. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Look, I'm screaming. Yeah, right. Exactly. And then you think you're over, and you return to the scene of the crime. compelling. Yeah, and you feel you're alive. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Look, I'm screaming. Yeah, right, exactly. And then you think you're over and you return to the scene of the crime. Sure. Remember? Yeah.

I just want to make sure you remembered. Yeah, right. Revisit. And also I want you to remember that I forgave you. Okay? Yeah. You don't appreciate that enough.

Right, exactly. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've been those. I've had those. It's so childish, isn't it? Isn't it kind of on an infantile level? And I know there are relationships that go deeper than that. And I've seen them in my life around me where there are two people, but they have to get through that infantile stage.

Yeah. And then it deepens into something beautiful and wonderful. And maybe even sex isn't a part of it. Or maybe sex is a part of it. But maybe it doesn't have to be the main part. Right. Well, if it's the main part, that's where you run into trouble. Exactly. You cannot live by sex alone.

No, you can't. Especially as you get older because you get tired. It's just too much work. It's always been too much work for me. Always. Oh, God. Okay. Maybe it'll be over soon. I can tell. Can we just go quick? Is there any way we can go quick? I know exactly what I need.

Just tell me what you need and maybe we can get this done. Wait, hold on. I'll do it myself. Just lie over there. Stroke my brow. I thought that was perfect. Are you good? Now, I've actually watched The Hollywood Game Night a couple times.

Oh, yeah. I didn't say that in a condescending way. It's just not necessarily a show that is necessarily made for me, but not unlike a musical. When I have it on, I'm like,

oh, this is, they're having fun and vulnerable and they, like those kind of games. They are fun and vulnerable. That's what's so great about it is the actors that show up

to do it are, celebrities are game and they know that there's a really good chance they're going to look like an idiot. Yeah, I'm terrified of it. Just the idea,

like I've never played charades in my life. Because I'd be the guy that as soon as they didn't know, I'd be like, just fucking tell them. It's like I don't have that fun part of me

for that kind of stuff. Yeah. But it seems like everyone's... I kind of don't either, but I love being the host of it. Well, whose idea was that? Sean Hayes. Oh.

Yeah, he has a terrific... I don't know if he's had one recently, but he has terrific game nights at his house where he mixes all sorts of people, like his celebrity friends, his friend who's a chef, and somebody who's an accountant, and we have these great nights, and I've been to a couple of them, and they're fantastic. He makes up all the games, And we go from room to room. And they're big events. They're kind of events that I don't like going to so much.

But I enjoyed his. And I especially enjoyed watching him be the host of it. So when he asked me to do it, I was like, you bet. Like just describing that. Want to take a nap. Yeah, I don't. I just, I don't. Like I've been, like I don't, you don't seem to have this. But like there's part of me that's sort of like, I know it would be fun, but I don't want to do it.

That's me. Absolutely, that's me. Yeah, it sounds great. Like, my niece was saying, oh, you go to this place out in Malibu, they play music, and they have these lights, and everybody gets together, and they get blankets, and then they watch a movie. It sounds like so much fun, but I'm not going to do it. There's no way in hell I'm going to do it. And as she's telling the story, I like oh isn't that night and then the ocean's right there yeah oh how beautiful no i have no interest i'm not driving down there i'm going to bed yeah this is their sand right it's 6 40 p.m i'm going to bed i don't know what that is because usually if

i go i have a pretty good time me too what is that i don't know i don't know laziness i guess and also social anxiety for me i just don't social anxiety and also just like like tonight like a lot of people i don't like being around a lot of people right and also just driving there yeah oh malibu too oh my god oh when she gets jumping in her car we're going to malibu oh my god malibu Why? And you're going to be in traffic for about an hour and a half of it? Yeah. Yeah. No.

No, I'm not going to do it. Yeah. But if that's being old, I've always been old. I just get... I talk myself out of a lot of stuff. Anxiety. That's what it is. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I think we're good. This is great. Are you good? I feel like we've given and we've given and we've given. We have. Until we can't give anymore Yeah

We probably could If there was an encore If I didn't have to go To the bathroom Yeah right I have one Oh encores I love encores

You do? Yes I do But we don't have to do one No well you can go to the bathroom And we don't have to come back No let's not Thanks That was me and Jane Lynch.

Very nice. I enjoyed meeting her. She's exactly as you would expect. It was great. It was a pleasure. It was a pleasure to talk to her. Go to WTFpod.com. Get yourself a t-shirt or a poster or something.

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