WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 740 - Billy Crystal

Episode Date: September 8, 2016

Billy Crystal's early love of show business put him on the path to standup comedy, which in turn got him on TV shows like Soap and SNL. Marc talks with Billy about his own show business footprint, including movies like When Harry Met Sally, Mr. Saturday Night, Deconstructing Harry, and Analyze This, as well as hosting the Academy Awards. Plus, Billy fondly remembers his relationships with icons like Muhammad Ali, Mickey Mantle, Jack Rollins, and Robin Williams. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Take a closer look how at calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com. All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucker weekends? What the fucksters? What the fucknicks? Yeah, what the fucknicks? How about that? Old school. Hey, it's me, Mark Maron. This is WTF. It's my podcast.

I'm in New York City. I'm here for an opening of a famous artist, Sarah Kane. The Sarah Kane. Her show show Dark Matter opens tonight Thursday night September 8th here in New York City at the Gallery

Le Long that's gallery with an IE at the end because it's fucking fancy some fancy business I went over there and looked at my partner's girlfriend i don't know lady friend person i'm seeing i still don't partner just doesn't it doesn't work for me i know that's everybody you know partner partner what does that mean i gotta call brendan my

producer and business partner my partner but then does that mean? Like I call Brendan, my producer and business partner, my partner. But then I have to qualify it with like business partner. So obviously I know that the word has implications. But maybe my chick. Is that still, does that not kosher? No, no good. I'll go with the lady I'm seeing. The woman.

The woman in my life. Oh, boy. She's giving me the thumbs up in her bathrobe on the bed. So I went over there and looked at the show and I got to say it's pretty spectacular.

It's like going to a... It's like going to an abstract theme park. Very full-body experience. Full-body immersion in the art of Sarah Kaneane if you want to go to the opening it's open to the public tonight here in new york city six to eight at gallery le longa so uh what else on the show today billy crystal the billy crystal uh the great, one of the great Jewish funny men. Can I call him that?

Sure. Why not? Oh, before you fast forward to Billy, new WTF cat mugs are available from Brian Jones up in Portland. These are the same mugs I give to my guests. They go on sale at 12 noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific.

Go to BrianRJones.com to get yours. I'm in a motel room. I'm not drinking just coffee. I'm drinking tea. It's kind of cold. I just spent an hour and a half with Tom Sharpling. We just recorded another Mark and Tom show.

That should be forthcoming. We'll get that out to you soon. We had our standard somewhat midlife chats about this and that uh but uh very few people make me laugh as much as tom sharpling i don't know if you listen to the best show but you should listen to it he's one of the great broadcasters very funny and we have fun together so look forward to that i just got here yesterday to new york city from albuquerque new mexico where i spent a few days i'd like to thank everyone who came out to the big benefit for endorphin power company at the uh hispanic cultural center at the albuquerque

journal theater there in my hometown it was a show. I had a great time for a good cause. Saw a lot of people that I haven't seen in a while. It's very wild, man. It's very wild to not be part of people's lives for decades, but having had them in your life for a short period of time and another point in your history. And I've always had a hard time wrapping my brain around that, around seeing people, because you have these very strong connections. Like I saw right when I got to Albuquerque, I went to Duran's Pharmacy for some carne adovada, and I was just sitting there at the counter,

and there's some middle-aged dude at the other end of the counter. Just this stout little dude. And he's looking at me. And I got no idea. I'm not connecting it. I'm not seeing nothing. I thought maybe he recognized me or whatever. So I'm sitting there.

He gets up, walks over, and he's like, hey, Mark, man, you remember me? It's me, John. And I'm like, what? And I'm like, holy shit. It's John, the guy who lived across the street from me, whose house, you know, I got stoned with him in his tree house when the first times I got really stoned.

And I've told this story before, but it was one of those great moments of bad parenting that probably led me to where I am now. But nonetheless, I couldn't, I could barely see John in this guy. Because a lot of times people put it different ways. Like, I mean, Tom Schiller used to do a bit about seeing the person that you used to know inside the person you're talking to. They're just surrounded by more face, but it almost looks like these people have eaten the person you knew in

high school and they've grown from within them inside of that. Whatever the case, you kind of knew in high school and they've grown from within them inside of that whatever the case you kind of see who the person was and i i recognized him once he said who it was but you know he did have this awkward sort of stonery laugh that you know he kind of interjected nervously after almost each sentence and i'm like that's the john i know there's that like hey man it's me john and i'm like oh yeah there you are there you are but yeah he was the guy i went over to his house and we went up his tree house got really stoned i freaked out i went home to my house i walked in my mother was on to it she said are you stoned and i go yes i'm stoned and she goes well why don't you go to your room and play guitar? They say you play better when you're like that. She didn't really have the hang of punishing.

But I appreciate that. Because, I mean, that kind of creative support is what sent me wandering throughout the world aimlessly to define myself in a creative way. And that's why I ended up here. Because my mom sent me to my room high to play guitar. Carnegie Hall, November 4th. That's happening. Tickets are going fast. I would get them if I were you.

I will be in Rochester, New York, at the Comedy Club tomorrow night and Saturday night, 9th and 10th. Four shows. I think one or two is sold out, but I think there's still tickets available. The Wilbur, September 24th, two shows. That's happening. There might be some tickets for that second show. I believe there are. Largo in Los Angeles, October 22nd.

Carnegie Hall, I already mentioned that. Anyway, Billy Crystal is here today, and the reason I didn't know if I could get Billy Crystal on the show, I didn't know that Billy Crystal would want to be on the show necessarily and I was at the very sad but very uplifting

and provocative memorial service for Gary Shandling and I was talking to Rob Reiner who I'd had on the show and he was standing there with Billy Crystal and we were talking about Rob doing the show and I look at Billy Crystal, and I'm like,

would you ever do the show? And he was sort of like, yeah, of course I would do the show. He just kind of had that vibe of sort of like, why am I not on the show? Why are you talking to Rob about the show? Why are you asking Rob Reiner to do the show and not me? And it was one of those moments like, I just never thought you would do the show.

And he's like, yes, of course, I'd love to do the show. So that's how that happened. So that's what Billy Crystal. That's how it happened. I didn't think he would do it. And then he said he would want to do it. God, it's so pretty in New York right now. I used to live here,

but now I just like being here for maybe three or four days. You get grimy. You eat good food. You get exhausted. And then you go away. Back to the cat ranch. All right. What do you say we spend some time with Billy Crystal,

who just got back from a big tour of Australia and New Zealand, and he's in the process of bringing that show that he did there to America. So look out for that in the near future. This is me and Billy Crystal in the garage back in LA. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats, but meatballs and mozzarella balls. Yes, we can deliver that.

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This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. I sort of fall in and out of love with stand-up. Well, that's weird because when you started, when you were at Tisch was where you went, right? Yeah. When did you start stand-up? Was it your first passion? It always was. It was?

Yeah, it always was. i was from junior high school high school even earlier than that i was always a guy elementary school off book yeah i just would you know yeah i would i was always able to improvise in front of people and who were your comics that when you were a kid you were listening to because in my mind you're part of a a very important tradition well the great the great, you know, because we had great television comics on, you know, the real kind of heavy lifters, you know, Phil Silver, Sid Caesar.

Yeah, right. But Sid's voice was really the voice of Neil Simon and Mel. Yeah, and Danny Simon. And Danny Simon and Larry Gelbart, rest his soul, amazing guy. Yeah. So that filtered through.

There was an ethnicity to what Sid did in a very kind of subtle way that was fantastic to latch on to. Yeah. Ethnicity being Jewish? Yeah, but it wasn't overt. It wasn't the Borscht Belt. It was not a Borscht Belt guy at all. Right. More physical.

Yeah, and sketches at all. Right. More physical. Yeah. And sketches and character. Right. The guys that Sid did were like, you know, Progress Hornsby was a stone jazz musician. And I knew the real guys, you know, because my dad was in the music business. Why was he in the music business?

Like, you know, because he was a real guy, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. What did he do? My family owned a little record store on 42nd street new york between lectington and third called the commodore music shop and it was the center of jazz from the late 30s all the way up to when it closed in the late 50s so the important time like yeah coming out of swing yeah into uh the new jazz yeah and new jazz was really created on record

by my uncle who's a legendary producer named Milt Gabler. Now, Milt turned my grandfather into sort of an entrepreneur. It was a music store where they sold radios and light bulbs and cranky people would come in. What aisle are the socks in? Are there socks? Where are the whisk brooms? And so then he said, Dad, he was like working there after high school,

so he took one of the speakers of the radio and put it over the transom of the door right on 42nd Street and tuned it into this jazz station that plays a lot of big Spiderman stuff. Yeah. And so the jazz was blasting out in the street. People come in going, do you sell records here too? And they didn't, and my uncle said, well, we should sell records. Right.

So they started buying up old records from like What was it OK OK EH Yeah And reissuing them Uh huh So then they created Their own little label Called the Commodore Jazz Label

Of course it was right down The street from the Commodore Hotel Okay On 42nd Street Yeah Which is now I think The Grand Hyatt or something

Right Right near Grand Central Station I remember Colony Records Yeah that was a big music On Broadway Yeah But this little hole Was like nine feet wide Right now becomes this that everyone's wants these records so then my

uncle says to his father why are we why are we selling other people's records let's make our own right and he he starts producing jazz records and jazz concerts all over the all like who are the guys oh my god there is eddie condon who was one of the great jazz guitar players of all time. Pee Wee Russell. Yeah. And that later evolved into Billie Holiday. And Billie did all of her original great records on the Commodore Jazz Lab. With your uncle.

Yeah, which included Strange Fruit. And how old were you with this? I was not thought of until... Oh, okay. I come along in 1948. Right. Or on my MD page, 1957. Yeah.

And yeah, so my dad then marries into the family and takes over the store. Milt splits, goes to Decca Records. Oh, this is your mother's side of the family? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. So my mother's big brother was Milt. Right, right.

Milt splits to Decca Records. He has a 35 gold record career, including Rock Around the Clock, Red Roses for Blue Lady, Volare. Were you close with him? Oh, yeah. He was a mentor to me. So he was around. Oh, God, yeah.

They all were. In New York. Yeah. Milt only worked from New York. So he's producing all that stuff, Rock Around the Clock. Yeah, but then he'd fly to Germany. He was like the celebrity. Yeah.

And I would sit at his feet, because he did Sammy Davis' first gold record, which was Hey There, You With the stars in your eyes. That was from Pajama Game. So he talked to me about Sammy and said, Watch him. He does a lot of things. Do a lot of things. Because he knew I had the shining.

Right, right. He wanted to be show business. So you're a kid like, what, 12, 11? Oh, younger than that. Five, six. And you're going to shows. Oh, yeah. And you're meeting everybody.

So you feel that show business thing, like you're backstage. Well, then my dad's producing jazz concerts all over New York besides running the store. Yeah. So now in order to be with him, and this sort of was the basis of 700 Sundays, was we'd go to the clubs with him just to be with him. Right. Because weekends, you know, it was Friday, Saturday night until 3 o'clock in the morning. And he's hanging out with these, these are heavy cats.

Amazing, the greatest guys. Fats Waller, Willie the Lion Smith, Jack Teagarden, Pee Wee Russell. Did your dad, oh yeah, did your dad drink? No, no. So he was just a witness. Yeah, well, he also emceed the shows. Okay. And that was another thrill because my dad's on stage behind a microphone in a spotlight.

It was, you know, in a shiny suit. Was he funny? Yeah, very witty guy. He was? Yeah, very witty guy. And your mom? My mom was the lifeblood of the family in that they were a remarkable pair. He was quiet and really witty.

Great sense of humor. Turned us on to television. It was not the Three Stooges. It was Laurel and Hardy. Right. It was Ernie Kovacs. It's okay if you stay up late. I know you got a fourth grade test tomorrow.

Right. Watch Kovacs. Just watch the highbrow shit. Watch what Phil Silvers does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Big Phil Silvers fan. And it was a great influence. I had two older brothers, all very funny.

They around? Yeah. That's good. Yeah. And we would steal from everybody. Sure. all very funny. They around? Yeah. That's good. And yeah, and we like, we would steal from everybody. Sure. So we were the Nairobi Trio.

Do impressions. Yeah, we were the Nairobi Trio. From Ernie Kovacs? Yeah, yeah. And we were the 2,000 year old. When that album came out, forget about it. How old were you when that came out?

I was 12. Those were my baseball cards, Mark. Mel Brooks, that album came out when you were 12? 1960. No kidding. Those were my baseball cards. Yeah, right. Those were, that album came out when you were 12? 1960. No kidding. Those are my baseball cards. Right.

Those were, you know, I loved the music. I still love the jazz. But the comedy albums that Dad would bring home from the store, those were my baseball cards. Right.

That was, you know, that was amazing albums. It felt like Jonathan Winters had an album out every month. Shelly Berman. Yeah, and Nichols and May live on Broadway. Yeah, yeah.

Did he like any of those Yiddish guys, like Myron Cohen or any of those? He always laughed at Myron Cohen, because Myron Cohen, all of those guys were really artists. Right. They were so specific in who they were and who they played to. Yeah. And that's when the Catskills was at its height. Yeah. Did you guys go up there?

Only once. Only once. That was enough? That was enough. But we didn't have any money. We were in the jazz business. Right. And that's where I saw my first comedian, which, you know, watching this guy's act.

Who? I think his name was Pat Henry. Uh-huh. And he was a bald guy. And he said, I grew my eyebrows really long so I could sweep them back over my head. Uh-huh. It was the stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then, of course, every Sunday night, in addition to the guys during the week, was Ed Sullivan. Sullivan had a comic on every Sunday night. Did you ever go to the show? No. But the comics were the heavy hitter guys. And the novelty acts. Yeah. I and the novelty acts yeah i loved the novelty plate spinners that yeah but there was the well the guy there's usually nine of them the lady of spain guy yeah and the weir brothers were you should watch them yeah google the weir

brothers folks who'll ever listen they they was i think they were swedish or norwegian three guys with a one had to play clarinet one played guitar one played violin or bass and they were hilarious physical these were musical performers well that's interesting about like about i was talking to a friend of mine about about you and and your style that your physicality and your sense of physical timing is so uh uh right on like you know it a natural thing, but you're aware of it. Yeah. And I've always envied it because it is a natural thing. And once you learn how to do it, I imagine it's sort of addictive.

But there is a moment where, you know, to do takes, to do beats, to do physical stuff, it's a choice, right? Yeah. And also, when you're in front of an audience, it helps them see the joke if they don't hear it. Right, right, right. You know what I mean? Yeah, but there's also that amazing beats that those guys took, like those pauses and the takes. You know, and not many guys do it anymore. No.

It's a lost art, but when I watch, like analyze this, I guess I'm getting off the narrative. It's okay. It's the narrative. I guess I'm getting off the narrative. It's okay. It's the narrative. Because there's a few scenes in Analyze This where I can watch them over and over again and your reaction is so fucking classic

and so hilarious. That scene with him, I don't know. With the hugging? Him, I don't know. Oh, yeah. I laugh thinking about it. But you were on to that, but it didn't come unresearched in a way. No, no.

But it also was a pretty natural thing for me. Yeah. It was a pretty natural thing for me. When you grow up with aunts and uncles who were very animated. And in a very Jewish ethnic way. Yes. It's very specific. Yeah, but it wasn't this kind of way.

It wasn't that. There must have been one of those. There were 12 of them. But my apostles. Yeah. But everyone was very animated. They speak with their hands. Yeah, yeah. Sure.

A lot of times their hands were covered with salad dressing or macaroni salad or something, which is not attractive when they speak Yiddish. Did you grow up with Yiddish? Russian. Really? Russian. From your grandmother? Yeah, yeah, both of them Russian.

And a lot of Yiddish after a while when they didn't want us to know what they were talking about. Exactly, that's what my grandparents did. Like, what are they doing? What's this gibberish? Oh, they're going to the movies. They'd catch you out of the corner of their eye so Max said to me

and you wouldn't you knew that there was something they didn't want you to hear yeah did you really just say something

no I was hoping you did you know what's so funny about you know listen I I'm I love my religion I love the world I was born into.

I'm not the most religious guy in the world, but I love the heritage of it. I love the things that it stands for. And I've been very open about it. People will come up to me, and it always makes me either laugh or get annoyed when they'll go, a total stranger, So, Billy, how are are you what are you doing and i'll go why are you talking like that the guy goes oh i i thought you might like that no i don't it's almost it's almost anti-semitic they see you as a cultural representative of the jewish type they see me and suddenly i'm in like a talus and a yarmulke

and the black hat and, you know, Billy's so much, the Yankees got enough pitching? Well, I think they're trying to connect. Yes, they are. I get it. It just always baffles me. But the funny thing is you're familiar with that character. Yeah.

You grew up with that. Because I didn't, you know, my grandparents were from Jersey and everything and I grew up with that Jewish Because, like, I didn't, you know, my grandparents were from Jersey and everything, and I grew up with that Jewish thing, and I've always been a fan of that comedy, and it's definitely in me. You know, I somehow, like, for years I fought against it. Yeah. So, like, I wouldn't even mention I was a Jew on stage,

because I didn't know how to do it without going, you know, how do you do it? Is there another way to do the Jew thing? No. And I wasn't doing it. I wasn't in my early stuff I didn't do it I started doing it on soap uh-huh the last year of soap Susan Harrison who's an amazing writer who created the show brought on a young writer named Stu Silver. Did you ever know Stu? No. Stu was a great comedy writer. A fascinating story. As stereotypical Jewish comedy writer as you can imagine,

except he was a young guy. Right. I know guys like that. There are guys that are just born old men. Yes. They're born old Jews. And he was a delightful guy. Yeah.

And we came up with a storyline that my character, Jody, goes into hypnotherapy to figure out why he's attracted to women and so on. And he's confused. I kind of remember this. Yeah. And he takes me back in time. It was sort of like the search for Bridie Murphy. I remember that.

And I become this old Jewish guy in my past, and I'm stuck. I can't get out of this guy. So here I am looking like I looked back in 1980 yeah but I talk like this and I'm talking to my mother Mary Campbell and I'm teaching her about how God tests God will test people my first wife I remember the lines yeah Franja aania, a redhead. Yeah. She was raped by the Cossacks repeatedly. But since she looked like a pumpernickel bread, it was more of a test for the Cossacks.

And then I started doing it. I started filtering into my stand-up, which I was doing a lot of them. So, yeah. So that's where it sort of started. But it's so funny because it's like it's somehow ingrained in us. You know, I talked to like I talked to Jeff Goldblum the other day, and it's somewhere in us. It's our history.

And like those people are stereotypical or their characters. But I had one. There was a woman, my grandmother's aunt used to sit in. She didn't speak any English, and they had to make her kosher food. And she would sit on a plastic covered sofa and eat by herself at family events. I mean, it's just part of the thing. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

The Eastern European Jew thing. Yeah. It's a brush stroke. And it shouldn't be denied because they were really kind of amazing people. Oh, yeah. And the language of comedy for years. Yeah. Oh, for sure.

The timing of it. The timing, the emphasis and the language of comedy for years. Yeah, for sure. The timing of it. The timing, the emphasis, the lean in. I adored Alan King. Did you? Yeah, we became great friends. We did a movie together where we played father and son. It was a very sweet movie called Memories of Me, and we became very close.

And I would imitate him to him not doing his voice but just the lean in yeah because they want to make sure you hear them yeah but he did it on the sullivan show yeah folks you can't see me but i'm gonna lean into the mic it may get a little loud yeah so this is no punchline this is just so uh what am i doing about that crabgrass? And they lean toward you. If you're in the first row, you just want to settle back just a little bit. It's almost like a 3D movie.

It's interesting that it's crabgrass because he was really the first of the Jewish comics to do the middle class Jewish thing that we're not shtetl people. We're not pushing racks of clothes now. We're on Long Island. And we're not shtetl people. Right. You know, we're not pushing racks of clothes now. We're on Long Island. Well, he was, and he was very wealthy. Yeah. Alan was different than the other comics of that time. He produced Broadway plays, movies, The Line in Winter. Yeah.

He had great taste. He was on the board of directors of Shenley. And he had this house. Yeah. That was Oscar Hammerstein's house in Great nick yeah great nick and it was beautiful it's right on the long island sound yeah and he i know he had a huge ego he bought it because it was on king's point that's what it was called king's point and he was alan king and we when my friends i was the youngest of my graduating class.

I didn't have a driver's license. From where, high school? Yeah. We would drive to Alan King's house in Great Neck and look over the fence and see the Rolls Royce, the beautiful Tudor house. And it was like, I would love to have that someday. We would whisper, he's a comedian.

Look what he has. He can have a house like that. And then when I was little, he came into an Italian restaurant in my hometown. Yeah. Which was? Long Beach, Long Island. Yeah. And there was a hotel.

It had this big showroom. Uh-huh. And everybody worked there. I saw Sammy Davis Jr. there. The dinner club, right? Yeah. It was a big hotel and a big supper club. And Alan came into this little restaurant, and we actually wrote this into Mr. Saturday Night,

where Ron Silver, playing the director, tells me of the entrance he saw me make in a restaurant. Right. And Alan had just come from the show. Yeah. He had a mohair suit on, white shirt, beautiful white tie, like white on white. I must have been nine. Yeah.

And he came in and everybody applauded. And he like glided into the room. And I had recognized him from The Sullivan Show. And, you know, we were very modest people. Sunday night was the one night we could eat out. Yeah. And I saw him and I ran up to him and I said, Mr. King, I think you're fantastic. And he looked at me and he said, whoa, look what just fell out of my nose.

And I thought it was like getting an autograph from Mickey Mantle. It was like he insulted me. It was like so great. And we put that into the movie. With no malice. No, no, no. Alan was amazing. I'm so blessed to, you know, that's one of the fringe benefits, Mark, of what we do.

Yeah. You know, my grandfather used to say, if you hang around long enough, sooner or later they'll give you stuff. Yeah. The people we get to meet and end up with. Yeah, yeah. yeah the people we get to meet yeah and end up with yeah yeah and become part of their lives is is for me at this point in my life in my career kind of I look back and smile going holy right holy shit yeah you know it's yeah I mean you know well when did you like what like so you're nine you're watching Sullivan

you're doing all this stuff you're doing stick and school and brothers. Did they end up in show business in any way? My middle brother, I'm the youngest. He's two years older. My brother Rip has been a producer, a television producer for years out here. Yeah. And my older brother Joe was an art teacher for 36 years. Really funny. Great witty guy.

And he's retired now. So you have a creative family. You have a family that's open-minded at least, enjoys show business. Oh, big time, and big civil rights people. And on top of that, my mom was a great tap dancer. Oh, yeah? And she was the voice of Minnie Mouse in the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parades in the late 30s. In the Macy's Thanksgiving Day parades in the late 30s, she would sit in the float as it came down and would sing.

Usually, I'm forever blowing bubbles. Uh-huh. To this huge float coming down. Inside the float. Yeah, inside the float. There was a little cabin or whatever at the base of Minnie's feet, and no one would see her. And there'd be a piano, a little piano, and she'd sing. I think that's so funny, because there's something that keeps sticking with me, is that even in Mr. Saturday Night,

and because of the way you were brought up, that weird difference between the show person and backstage, or in the float. To really appreciate that, which it sounds like you must have, because you're going to these gigs with your father. Yeah. And you're seeing these jazz guys and they're just sitting around smoking. Yeah.

You know, before the show or doing whatever. And then they go on. It's like, all right, I'm on. You know, there's a weird kind of like appreciation for show business when you feel that. Yes. And not only that, there's a, the word destiny. Yeah. Is different than fate. Right.

Destiny is more important. Fate is like by chance. Right, right. Destiny means it was meant to be. Sure. And when I think about getting up on stage in front of 700 people when I was five years old and tap dancing to you know this Conrad Janis and the tailgaters a great Dixieland band not having any fear just wanting to be up there yeah moth to the flame yeah yeah and being endorsed and

and supported by my folks it wasn't like what did you go up there they're not supposed to do that yeah they loved it yeah and it's not nobody pushed me i they just knew that i had to sort of do this yeah it was sort of like i was a rain jew yeah i was rain jew in the back of my in my house writing jokes watching comics loving it couldn't wait to get up on stage you love it loved it i still do but i i like that i like the idea of that loving it. Because just personally, and obviously we're different people and have different careers, but I needed to be a comic because I had something to say.

That's what I thought. So taking the love, I would fight it. I was that kind of comic. It's going to be a little tough at first for us. You may not love me right away exactly but but you like this you just took it you know and you felt it and it was great i yes but i also i also had um a little mantra yeah which was don't settle in right right stay vigilant yes yes don't get too relaxed man it's uh mine used to be hide the hate well that's a little more uh dramatic similar i think no hide the hate that's a great album title yeah or a book title yeah all right i'll make note of it yeah but uh but yeah

because i like i realized that you know in the last few years like i miss you as the host of the oscars because because you love show business i do you know you're you know it's like this is a night for show business celebrate show business you fuck whoever you fuck is yeah and like i i never thought i'd have a moment where I'm like, I miss Billy dancing. But the thing is, I didn't really dance. No, but you did. You moved. I did, yeah.

Oh, I moved, for sure. And we entertained. Right. You entertained. That's what it was about. Yeah, because that's what it is about. It is about that. Everybody knows too much now.

And I'm not even that old to say that. No, it's true. And social media really hurts that a lot. Sometimes, yeah. It's like everybody's on this equal playing field. It's like, no, I want some privacy. I'd like the mystery to be maintained a bit if possible. Yes, and I don't need to hear from Jack 59 in whatever town that he hates me.

Yeah. Because Alan King had a great line about that which was surrounded by assassins but he was talking about other comics maybe maybe maybe so when did you when did you decide to sort of pursue it like in earnest like yeah like how did that when i got out of the draft uh-huh um 69 uh yeah the first draft first televised draft um i was a film i was a directing major at nyu um studying film direct i don't really i still don't know why i did that i swear to god i had been in nothing but musicals and and and play in high school in high school and college um oh you went to college this is the graduate school you're talking about? No, I went two years.

I went to a school in West Virginia for a school, Marshall University. How was that? It was, well, I went one year. I had a good time. I was a baseball player and it didn't work out for me there. And I transferred. Is that what you wanted to do? Yeah.

And I came home. My father just passed away. I was- Young, huh? I was very, yeah, 54. I was home. My father just passed away. I was- Young, huh? I was very- Yeah, 54. I was 15. So I was really depressed.

And I go away, and West Virginia was a little too off-Broadway for me. Yeah. And I was lonely. You're a city kid. Yeah, and I didn't give it the best chance I could give it, I think. And you're in grief, and you're alone now. Yeah, and it was the first time away from home, and I was 17. It must have been horrible.

I couldn't even drink. I couldn't even drink with the guys and do any stuff like that. So I came home that summer, and I had a job in a day camp. Jewish day camp? No. Regular. Yeah. And this girl walks by.

I'm on the beach playing ball with this girlfriend, Stevie Cohut. Yeah. And I'm getting ready to go back to school. And she walks by and I said, I'm going to marry her. And I did. So four years later. And so I didn't go back to school. I transferred to this junior college.

To be around her. Yeah. I knew if it was, I loved her so much right away that, you know, I don't know if you've ever been in like a long distance relationship. Sure. They don't work out. No. It's easier now with Skype.

Yeah. But back then, difficult. Yeah. And so I said, not going to go back. Yeah. And I got into, I i transferred this great junior college called nasa community college and had one elective which was an acting 101 program and i walked in there and it was like i'm home no kidding yeah great teacher you remember the guy his name was george

oliver um interesting man i love the, started doing stuff, started doing scenes, started doing, and I just gave it for two years. That's all I did. Then I transfer. No standup yet? No. But I met these two guys who were actors and we started doing improvs together. I would have just done standup, but I was terrified. I had these two guys, and we had this really fun act. Who were those guys? Dave Hawthorne and Al Finelli. And we became known as We The People.

And then we became known as Three's Company. We had more names than really good routines. Sure, yeah. Which was two. So now I transfer to NYU, and I get in. I don't know why, Mark. I applied as a directing major. I didn't go into the acting program. You don't know why?, I don't know why, Mark. I applied as a directing major. I didn't go into the acting program.

You don't know why. I still don't know why. I used to make little home movies and stuff, you know, and I loved, I liked being... Did you think maybe it was a better job? I thought maybe

I was very practical. Right. That if the acting thing didn't work out, I had something solid like directing to fall back on. Yeah. So I get to NYU. Yeah.

And who's my film professor of the production class? A graduate student named Martin Scorsese. No kidding. Yeah. So this is what, 70 what? This is 68. 68. 68.

I'm living in East Village with my best friend, David Sherman. We're still close as friends. And we had this little apartment on East 5th Street next to the police station. And the reason the police station is as important, it was on the wide shot of the police station on Kojak, you can see my apartment. Oh, yeah. And he pointed to that a lot. Yeah. Right here.

Yeah. And, you know, you show me your Miles Davis records. Miles would get busted every week because he'd be coming down to the Lower East Side to look for drugs. To score, yeah. Yeah, and his red Ferrari would be out front of our apartment building,

and he'd be yelling at this red-haired detective named Sergeant Fink, and he'd be yelling at him, motherfucker, why'd you keep fucking, fuck, stupid, I'm telling you something. Miles, don't become down here no more. Don't become a down looking for drugs.

What are you stupid? What are you stupid? You saw this? Oh yeah, we'd see him all the time. Yeah. So then, so that was 68, 9 and 70.

6th Street. East 5th. East 5th between 325 East 5th Street between 1st and 2nd. Yeah. And now Vietnam's raging. It was the greatest place to live was the East Village then.

It was so extraordinary. The Fillmore East was there. Was that 3rd? No, it was right on 6th Street and 2nd Avenue. I lived on 2nd between A and B in the 80s. Right. Yeah. And it was right next door.

That's why I saw my first movie was that theater. You lived on 2nd between A and B in the 80s. Right. Yeah. And it was right next door. That's why I saw my first movie was that theater. My dad did these concerts at a place called the Central Plaza, which was 111 2nd Avenue, which is now an NYU building. Right. Is that the film archive? It was a movie theater? It was a movie theater called, yeah.

Originally, it was called the Lowe's Commodore. Ironically, it had the Commodore name in it. Yeah, yeah. And it became the Fillmore East. Oh, ironically. It had the Commodore name in it. Yeah, yeah. And it became the Fillmore East. Oh, okay. Yeah. And that's where everybody played. Oh, everybody.

Yeah. It was amazing. For Great Hendrix, the Band of Gypsies record. Yeah. Zappa. Everybody played. And East Village then was so exciting to be part of. But our country country at that point was in the middle of natural childbirth.

Yeah. It was all this screaming, all this yelling. Yeah. We hated this war. We hated Nixon. We hated what was happening. And, I mean, LBJ knew what he was doing.

Yeah. You know, I will not seek, nor will I accept a nomination. I'm getting the fuck out of here. Because he knew what he was doing. Yeah. You know, I will not seek nor will I accept a nomination. I'm getting the fuck out of here. Because he could see what was happening. And now we're faced with this. And suddenly, you know, kids today have no, and I always sound like Alan. And you're like 20?

Let's see. Yeah, I was just, yeah, 20. Yeah. Sound like Alan King, yeah. Yeah, this kid. But nobody today, were you exposed to the draft? No, no, I'm 52. Oh, so you got a selective service card.

Yeah. And they told us that they're going to have, as the war was heating up, that we're having this televised draft, which was a Powerball, basically. 365 birthdays, ping pong balls. Really? Put into a machine, live on television. And as they came out, if you were in the first 200, you had a report right away, and you more than likely were going to go to Vietnam.

And listen, for those of us who didn't believe in the war, this was a terrifying thing. For those who made their choice, I totally respect that. I had no idea why I cared about the M-Ven-Fu. If they were in Jersey, then okay, sign me up. Or if they were bombing Jersey. Yeah, then sign me up. But what did we care about that? Right.

It made no sense to us. Much like this war that we've been in for 12 years now doesn't make any sense either. 15 years. So it was on television. Sure. It was like the anti-lottery. Yeah. You didn't want to win. No. 200 you're gone yeah so i had this production class right this television production class right just at nyu yeah so i think it came on at seven or eight o'clock whatever it

was and we were able to watch like the first 50 names i'm not in the first 50 balls. The tension, you know, it spins, spins, and the ball comes out. April 3rd. So it was just birthdays. Just birthdays. April 3rd. Next one. You know?

March 2nd. Can you imagine? Your life is being decided by some guy in a uniform pulling his balls out of a machine. No music to this. No. We'll be right back with the draft. It was terrifying.

Yeah. So now I'm not in the first 50. All right, I got a chance here. Yeah. And I run home and I run to the place on 8th Street called the Gem Spa. Remember the Gem Spa on 2nd Avenue? Oh, wait, wait, they have the egg creams?

Yeah, and those little chocolate raspberry things. Well, anyway. Look, when you were stoned, that's where you wanted to go. I think it's still there. Yeah, it is there. They make the egg creams there.

Yeah, so I run up there. I run across town from Washington Square Park thinking I'm not in the first 50. I'm not in the first 50. How many balls have been pulled since that? I left.

The New York Times hits the pavement. I mean, it was like a Scorsese cut of a movie. Boom! I'm not in the first 50. How many balls have been pulled since that? I left. The New York Times hits the pavement. I mean, it was like a Scorsese cut of a movie. Boom. I'm like, and that's up to 112. Still not by the time they went to print. No. I run back to my apartment, run up the stairs. And I call my mom.

Mom, are you watching the lottery? No, dear. There's a Bonanza has a two-hour special. Hoss got bit by a snake, and he has it. Good. Boom. Now I'm watching the Joe Franklin show, a guy I would end up imitating on SNL. And one of the most, I think it was one of the first ticker tapes on television, came through at the bottom with the numbers.

So now I see I'm not in 112 to 175 right I'm not in 175 to 220 I'm not I don't get called until 354 and that's how I got out of going into the office so they literally went through the whole year yeah 360 yeah 365 days and it was just the order yeah so I was 354 I never had to take a physical I never had anything like that. I was out. So- You won the lottery.

I won the lottery and went into show business with my two friends, Al and Dave. We formed this act. Yeah. And we started doing improvs and fake improvs and sketches and stuff. At places? Yeah. We started on a- It was our vaudeville.

Yeah. It was called the Coffee House Circuit. Yeah. It was called the Coffeehouse Circuit. Yeah. And we would get $150 each, but you'd be there three days. Yeah. And you'd live in a dorm. No kidding. So you were traveling.

You were traveling, yeah. So we were on the road in my little Volkswagen, usually. Not that it's a big Volkswagen. It was my Volkswagen and with Dave and Al, and we had a great time. What were those rooms? What were the rooms in New York that you would play? Well, we ended up at the Bitter End, which was great.

And the context at that time, so you had the committee was around. There was a precedent for improv. Ace Trunkie Company. Ace Trucking was really good. Fred Willard was in Ace Trucking. Yeah. The committee, that was more of a West Coast thing and

we were really funny we did like a Mike Douglas show we did you know yeah but it was hard to break through with three guys and I was there four and a half years with them really so you were in that you were in show business I was in show business yeah and not making any money I mean the most I made was four grand a half years with them. Really? So you were in that, you were in show business? I was in show business, yeah. Yeah.

And not making any money. I mean, the most I made was four grand a year. Were you the feature actor? Were you the headline actor? We'd be the opening actor. Right. And sometimes we would headline, but at the colleges,

we were always the featured actor. Right. And there'd always be a folk singer. Sure. And us. And what they, you know, it was called the coffee house circuit.

Yeah, right. So every campus had a thing after 8 o'clock. The cafeteria became the nightclub. The beatniks. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that's where we were.

But I was already married in 1970. Wow. So for me, it was- You got to make a living. Yeah. And so I was substitute teaching at the school I went to, which was weird. On Long Island? Yeah, in Long Beach.

In the junior high. That's where you were living? Yeah. I was living in the house I grew up in. Upstairs, it was like a separate. It was after the Lower East Side. Yeah. So wait, we didn't linger on Scorsese.

So you got this hyperactive graduate student teacher? Oh, my God. He would stand behind you, and we were working. There was film then. Yeah. So you got white gloves on. There was a machine called a Moviola. Yeah.

Right. Moviola had the film on one spool and your sound on the other spool, and you synced them up, and they'd run through a machine. Right. And you couldn't touch. You had white gloves, and if you wanted to make an edit, you'd stop with the brakes, put a grease mark on your cut, take a razor blade, make the cut, take the tape, make the edit,

go to the sound, hear the sound. You hear the sound. Make the edit. And he'd stand behind you and he had this big beard and why did you make that cut? I don't understand. Why would you do that? Why would you make that cut? Howard Hawks would make that cut. I said Howard Hawks isn't a student here.

And every time I see him you know I ask him the same question. Why did you give me a C? We're making little movies. But he was amazing, you know. Do you have any of those movies? I have them, yeah.

How are they? They're basically silly. There was, you know, just. Yeah, but did you feel like you learned something there? I did. I learned basics of staging, of staging, the camera dictionary. Of actually directing. Yeah, of who stands where and how you come around the side.

Right, right, right. That basic stuff. Coverage. Yeah, that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah. So you're living on Long Island. You substitute teaching. Yeah.

You're in a three-guy act. Right, and I'm getting weary. Do you have a kid yet? 1973. Okay. So I'm getting weary. Yeah. You're in a three-guy act. Right. And I'm getting- You have a kid yet? 1973. Okay. So I'm getting weary. Yeah. And I'm getting anxious. Yeah.

Because I know I'm hiding. Yeah. Hiding. So I- What do you mean? Like you're protected by the other guys. Yeah. And you're not really going into the big game.

And we're- You know, it's lonely at the middle. Yeah. And you're not really going into the big game. And we're, you know, it's lonely at the middle. Yeah. And we get noticed just by chance. Yeah.

We're up at a record company called Buddha Records. Yeah, yeah. Cat Stevens, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And we were trying to do an album. We were going to do a very- That's why Cheech and Chong's made a record already. Yeah.

And it's big on college radio. Uncle Dirty. We're working- Remember that guy? Bob Oldman. Yeah, yeah. And we were working on this album with his two young producers there. And the act was good.

Yeah. And we were auditioning to open for Sha Na Na. And we're doing our act, I swear, in a conference room, the three of us doing our bits for one guy. Yeah. And Ed Somerville, I think is his name. Uh-huh. And he says, do you guys know who Buddy Moore is? I go, no.

He said, he's Robert Klein's manager. Uh-huh. And they were the Jack Rollins, Charlie Jaffe office, which was the best office. Sure. Because they had Woody Allen, Dick Cavett. And we said, I'm going to bring him in. Buddy Moore. Yeah.

So he brings in Buddy, and we do our stuff for him all alone in this room. And he doesn't laugh. He smiles a couple of times and says, okay, let me see what we can do. So he gets us in a couple little rooms we can do and so on and so on. So he gets us in a couple little rooms in New York, so on and so forth and I know

that it's not happening but we're in the mix in his office a little bit. right. He then with a great man who just sadly passed away,

Larry Bresner, come to me and they said, have you ever thought about doing stand-up? And I said, yes. And I said, because the act isn't going anywhere. We don't think it's... They pulled you aside. Yeah. Right. It's not going to happen.

Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's not going to happen. Yeah. But we'll be there for you, and we'll work with you right from the beginning if this is what you want to do, because we think you could be a stand-up comic. Uh-huh. So I went, oh, my God.

Yeah. I said, let me think about this. Now I know I have a support group. Right. A big one. Yeah. So I'm a home, and I was Mr i was mr mom yeah janice went back to work yeah um she's now working at the college that i went to she's assistant dean of theater at nasa community college how'd you feel about that i was well listen it was what you had to do sure

and you know she had faith in you though yes because, because this is one who said to me, you can do this. I'm going to go back to work. You figure this out, and I'm there for you. And we had a baby who was six months old, and she said, this is important for you. So this is 73. Yeah. Yeah. So I get a call from a friend at NYU.

Uh-huh. His name is Iris Sardi. Yeah. his name is Iris Sardi and he said hey listen do you know do you know a comedian who could do like 15 minutes in front of the folk singer

at the ZBT house on Friday we're having a party it's my dad's Friday so I said yeah I'll do it yeah first gig

he said well when did you start doing oh no I've been doing it for a while lying my ass off as I'm feeding my baby yeah and he said yeah great it's a it for a while lying my ass off as i'm feeding my baby yeah and um i said yeah oh great

it's uh it's a friday night um if you get there like at seven go on at 8 8 15 8 20 you're done and then the folks are great and it's like 25 bucks i went great you know like boom yeah i hung up and i went what the hell did i just do? Yeah. So I called up Buddy Moore. I said, Buddy, listen, I booked myself into a fraternity party. It's Friday night. Yeah. It's 25 bucks and I don't think I should pay you commission. He said, great, give me the information.

So I said where it was. It was on Mercer Street. So now I start putting together stuff. Yeah. And I threw this in. I threw that in. So I was doing Cosell and Ali a little bit with the act. We used to do this Wide World of Sports thing.

So that I had for two minutes, maybe three. I had a couple other things I threw together. I did The Wizard of Oz in a minute. The premise was the film's been on so much. The television, it's all spliced up. Did you do that bit for years?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I get to the fraternity. It's pouring rain. It's like horrible out. Yeah. I get to the fraternity house. They're all sitting there

and smoking pot and all this stuff and I see the stage and I'm like panicked. I think I'm, you know, how much time can I really do here?

Right. And Ira comes over and goes, listen, can you stretch? What do you mean? He said, well,

because the folk singer just called. He's stuck in traffic with this rain. Yeah. Can you stretch? I said, you mean go like

from like three to three and a half minutes? I said, well, I don't know. I'll do it. As we're talking about this and I'm getting more worried,

in walks Buddy Mora, Larry Bresner, Jack Rollins himself. Holy shit. Yeah. Yeah. They all come to this place.

Stand in the back of their suits? Yeah. With their wet raincoats and umbrellas and stuff. Hats. Yeah. And they introducecoats and umbrellas and stuff. Hats. Yeah. And they introduced me.

I go on. Mark, I don't know where it came from. I did an hour and 20. Come on. I swear, I still don't even remember what I did.

I just went. It was a belch. It was a vomit of epic comic proportions because it was all of this frustrated time with the group just came out. Right. And Rollins loves that, right? He likes when you push it out.

I just went. I just went. Yeah. And they stood up. And the folks then arrived. And he sang, May the Circle Be Unbroken. And it was a nice night. And they came up to me afterwards.

I couldn't believe it. Yeah. Janice is crying, and Buddy says to me, all right, listen, that stunk, so let's go to work. Did he say that? Yeah. But you were getting laughed? I was getting, I was killing. Yeah.

I was, I don't even, I swear I don't remember what I did. Right, but eventually at that time, they were sort of seeing the new comics come out, and I was killing. Yeah. I was, I don't even, I swear I don't remember what I did. Right. But eventually at that time they were sort of seeing the new comics come out. And I imagine that, you know, you were probably doing some crowd work and stuff, right? Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And, but it was like, it was, it was like a miracle. It was beautiful.

It was great. Yeah. And then. You knew you could do it. Yes. Like if you, you know, your first weird gig out, you somehow did an hour and a half, you're like, okay. You know, it's just trimming now.

And yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And now I go, oh man, I cheated on my friends. Uh-huh. They had no idea. Right, right, right. And now I know I don't want to do that anymore.

Right. You know, with them. Oh, you got to do that. And now I got to tell them. Yeah. What I did. Yeah. And they were my best friends, and it was four and a half years of, you know, stuff you gotta do that and now i gotta tell them yeah what i did yeah and they

were my best friends and it was four and a half years of of you know stuff together and living on the road in dorms together and all that stuff it was more than just being an act yeah no sure and i told them and they were shocked that i did it but they went good for you no kidding i said guys i love you yeah i really do i got an 18 month old baby that's sleeping in there i gotta do this and i'm gonna do it yeah and and we had one gig coming up right opening from melissa manchester at the bitter end uh-huh and she was hot like crazy yeah coming from the rain and she she had good songs. Yeah. And a great performer. If nothing comes from that, I'll give you that last.

It's already booked. And I want to do that with you. Yeah. Then I'm gone. Yeah. And now we get it sold out. It's like a perfect setup for us. Yeah. Everybody's coming.

Record people. Right, right. It's TV people coming to see her. And we were killing. And I'm saying to myself, please, nobody buy us. Yeah, right. It's TV people coming to see her. And we were killing. And I'm saying to myself, please, nobody buy us. Nobody book us for anything, please. No, don't, don't, don't. And they didn't.

And then that was it. Did those two guys stay in show business? David did. David is still really funny. I saw him pretty recently. I hadn't seen him for years and years and years and i still love the guys and al lives in new mexico um but really what's his name al finelli and he used to play right now and and um and a photographer and and stayed in the arts yeah

and uh i just went yeah i left them that one that night the next night i'm at catch rising star at the beginning so it's 74 yeah no kidding hoping to get on hoping to get on just waiting yeah was rick newman there rick was great to me because he knew that i lived in over an hour outside of manhattan and that i had a baby uh-huh and he knew my gig yeah so he tried to get me better times. But I was so fertile, I just wrote my ass off. And very quickly, I had a really good 20 minutes to begin with. Mostly impression-driven? Some a little bit, but it's an interesting story that I'll get to in a second. Because I'd come to catch, and I'd get on at maybe one, and I'd be done 1.20, and then

you'd hang out for a second. Who the hell was going on before you at that time? Eddie Bluestone, Richard Lewis, Andy Kaufman, Belzer was the emcee. Freddie Prinze. Right. Leno. Yeah. And then David Brenner would come in and do an hour. Right. Wait.

Yeah. Were you going over to Bud's place too? No, because it was too far west for me. Right. So I, because Catch was on the east side, I could get out of Manhattan fast. In the 70s, right? 78th or something? And then, yeah, 44th and like 8th and 9th. Yeah.

Yeah. So I could get out of town fast. Right, right, right. Yeah. It was really about that. Yeah. I didn't become a devoted improv guy until I moved to California. Right.

Because to me, it was just a great room, the improv on Melrose. The original one, yeah. Yeah, it was great. And here, yeah. So then I'd get home by 3, up at 6, chance I had to leave for work at 7. Got the baby. Then I got the baby. So that was my life.

I did that for like two years. night a catch every night did he eventually move down on the roster a bit oh yeah yeah yeah pretty quickly i started working pretty quickly which was great and my first my first big gig well i should back up yeah i'm doing really good and i'm feeling like my purpose in life is being fulfilled. It was a really romantic, fantastic time for all of us. And Rollins comes to see me for the first time since... The frat house. The frat house.

Yeah. And he wanted to wait until I had marinated a little bit. And he was hearing all of this stuff, you know, and I was, you know, I was really doing good stuff. Yeah. And I know he's coming, and we're going to talk afterwards. So Jack, Jack was, he looked like the Jewish Duke Ellington. He had the big eyebrows. Big, yeah, but the big bags under his eyes.

Always a little stub of a cigar and tons of dandruff. They're almost like epaulets on his suit. He looked like a Brooklyn College English professor

or something. I met him once when he was very old. Yeah, and he lived to 100 and I just destroyed. I had 20 minutes of just boom

and I was, you know, I was doing, I was doing only then. I was doing a bunch of other stuff that were more bits. Yeah. And I just, I crunched. Yeah. So we go out afterwards and I sit down and I'm like, I'm full of myself.

But you know that feeling when you just had just a beauty. It's like a great, it's like you can walk on your own sweat for a while it's good can't sleep yeah it's like so exciting let's eat

yeah so Jack's looking at me and he spits a little bit of the cigar thing yeah how did you think you did tonight no

no I know I'm fucked yeah and I go well the audience was great yeah and he yeah yeah and now I I feel like I want to stab him yeah because he's just what he's just not saying anything and he goes yeah you know Bill uh I didn't care for it and I'm going why really? And I'm trying so hard not to leap across the table. You didn't leave a tip.

I go, what do you mean? He said, you did a lot of bits. I call them toys and games. They was all bits. But the audience had no idea about who you were when you left the stage. You didn't leave a tip. A tip, that little extra something that you leave because it was good. I like the guy who did the thing.

He's a nice man. That's important. Right. You didn't leave a tip. You never once said, I. Yeah. I think, I feel. Yeah.

You know what bothers me? Yeah. You never said that. Any of it. I know what bothers me you never said that I know what Ali thinks I know what this guy thinks I know what Mr. Rogers does these are bits so you're working too safe

you have to be ready and be prepared to bomb you have to know what that feels like in order to grow. These are like Talmudic huge things to lay on a 25-year-old stand-up who just killed. And who's six months just past substitute teaching. Who's feeling like, oh my God, my future's happening. And it was gigantic.

But it totally changed my perception about what I was going to do. He said, so come back tomorrow. Yeah. You know these things can work and we can sprinkle them in as we go. Right, right. But for your own personal welfare on stage,

don't do any of this tomorrow. You're married, right? Yes. Talk about that. You're of this tomorrow um you're married right yes talk about that you're a young man you're married that's unusual yeah you have a baby yes talk about that um look at you who else has a baby eddie bluestone doesn't have a baby belzer will never have a baby well look at that you have it you know talk about that and And I went home. I didn't sleep. I'm up all day with Jenny the next day, who's now the mother of two herself, and I'm writing stuff about being the only man in the playgroup. Yeah. Right.

And it gave me an identity. Talk about how she was born. I did a piece about natural childbirth in 1974. Yeah. So that's what I was – and he pointed me in the right direction, and any comic who, young person who comes up to me and asks me about that, I tell them that story. Yeah. Be prepared to bomb.

Yeah. Because it was so- And did you? Oh, yeah. But till you find your way. Right. Till you find your way. Right.

And then I learned, oh, if I, I could experiment with that, but I need that thing to end with. Yeah. So then an act starts to develop. Sure, sure. Always got Ali. Yeah. Yeah. I got that, and then you throw in this and throw in that.

Right, right. And then suddenly you... Yeah. But it was the approach. Right. It was the approach that was so amazing. And when Jack was 100, this was last year, he died shortly after. And I hadn't seen him in years and I always kept in

touch with him I always called him but he was such a wisdom filled menschy man yeah so wise yeah he was my Yoda yeah that way and and the company had fallen apart had broken up and i wasn't with him anymore and and you know robin rest his soul and i were like we were like the children of the divorce when when rollins and joffrey broke up yeah well who do we go with we love jack but we love buddy and we also love david steinberg the manager that's who you end up with right yeah so yeah and larry. So I didn't get Jack as much as I wanted to. I go to see him in New York, and he's 100 years old. Yeah. And we're sitting there.

And my series, The Comedians, was going to debut that night. Uh-huh. And I was in town doing press and stuff like that. So I program his VCR with his helper, his caregiver. And he was in and out, and I knew I had to get out of there. It was getting emotional for me. And we both knew it was the last time we were probably going to see each other. And I said, so Jack, 10 o'clock tonight.

It's all set up. If you miss it, you'll see it in the morning. So don't worry. It's all done. And I love seeing you, and I said, so Jack, 10 o'clock tonight, it's all set up. If you miss it, you'll see it in the morning. So don't worry, it's all done. And I love seeing you, and I love you. He grabbed my hand, and he says, are you happy with your work on this show? Do you feel good about what you did on this show? I said, yes, very much so.

He says, that's most important, because they can never take that away from you. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. so he says that's most important because they can never take that away from you oh my god oh my god it was like so amazing yeah you know and i and i and i carry that around with me you know i've been fortunate to to have had good guidance yeah that's amazing it's amazing stuff it's really amazing jack was amazing he was amazing and It's a beautiful moment you had. Yeah. Great stuff. And so when does, you know, how does soap happen?

How does the first break happen? I come out here and- You move here. Did not move here originally right away. We had a night at the, this was interesting, a night at the comedy store. I was traveling on the road with Melissaissa manchester it's her opening act and that was a great gig for a comic at that time it's fantastic yeah but it was it was kind of cool you lived on the bus do 20 minutes right yeah sold out crowds you know nothing on my head yeah and um came down to, which was intoxicating. LA back in the 70s was like amazing.

You could be on Sunset Boulevard and smell the orange blossoms in the valley. I mean, it was like really, it was different. More intimate business. Yeah, it was really cool. Yeah. And exciting and stuff was happening. So they have a night,

the office sets up a night for me at the comedy store. Everybody comes. Yeah. I mean, it was insane. In the main room, the big room. No. In the original room? I don't think there wasn't, they didn't have the main room yet.

Oh, it wasn't open yet. Yeah. So it was a little box room. Yeah. Yeah. And I look out and there's Jim Brooks and there's Carl Reiner and there's Norman Lear and there's all these, and it went really well. Yeah.

It went really well. Yeah. It went really well. Yeah. And now I'm meeting all of these guys. It's like being in a Yankee locker room. Yeah, yeah. And I go home to New York. Norman Lear calls me at home himself. Uh-huh.

I so enjoyed you the other night i'm like yeah um we have a part on all in the family uh you play you play mike's best friend um he's gonna get married on the show at mike's house it's a pretty good episode and i think i thought you know i think would you come out and would you think about doing this? Would I come out? Would I think about doing this? Yes, Mr. Lear, of course. And Norman.

Just Norman. Yeah, yeah. Next day, I'm on a plane. I'm coming out. I'm doing All in the Family. Is that the first time you met Rob? Yeah. So now I'm cast as his best friend.

It was the week after the Stivic baby had been seen on All in the Family. Okay. Right, Sally and Mike's baby. So it was a huge audience, like 49 million people saw like a medium show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No Archie. Yeah. You know, no Edith.

It was me and Rob and Sally, and I ended up getting married on the show. But it's a funny episode, but we became, we had to play best friends, and it sort of stuck right away. Yeah. And we said, listen, it was good on the show, so let's just keep going with this. Yeah. And it's remained to this day. Yeah, yeah.

I saw you with him, that's when I last saw you, at the Shandling Memorial. Yeah, yeah. So that was a big break. And then Paul Witt, Tony Thomas, Susan Harris call us. They saw me in the Tonight Show. Yeah. And they were doing the series, and they offered me this part to play Jody Dallas, this gay director of commercials, as part of this big ensemble. I had one line. The pilot was an hour.

There were two half hours put together as a pilot. I had one line in the pilot, but the second episode, I had this great episode with my mother where I'm in her clothes, and she catches me, and we talk about, and she sees me,

and she goes, get out of my, oh, you wear it belted. And it was smart, and I met with them them and it was a great pedigree it was jay sandrich who was one of the best television directors mary tyler moore um and susan i just thought she was a genius and an amazing writer yeah and that's so i said okay and it was a groundbreaking show groundbreaking show and i and i thought, well, but wait a second. This is 1976 when the pilot was. America was a lot different.

It wasn't as tolerant. I said, you know, but I have my stand-up. Yeah. And you'll always have that. So I didn't want to be the gay guy from Soap. I still wanted my own identity. Yeah, Billy Crystal. I just was starting to really get what's being on stage.

It was getting better and better. Was SNL happening yet? No. Uh-huh. Well, yeah, the show had been on. Yeah. Yeah, and- Were you up for that?

I was bumped from the very first show. Oh. Yeah. You were bumped from the first, but how long did you, were you mad at Lorne Michaels? A long time, but I did, you know, but I understood it at the same time. At that time you understood it? I didn't understand it because of how it was told to me about what went down. The Friday night before was a dress rehearsal.

I'm sorry. No, I know. The Friday night was a dress rehearsal, and Lor you know, Lauren had been all, had, had been coming to the clubs and he loved what I did and he liked my did. And he signed me to the first show. We had this deal in NBC with like six, six appearances on SNL over, you know, and then this, you know, then I'd become like the first non-celebrity host,

which is what he was talking about at the time. This is all on paper. Yeah, so we come to the first show, and it's George Carlin is the host, and there's two musical guests, Billy Preston and Janice Ian. And I knew everybody in the cast, because they were coming to see me at the Bitter End and stuff, John and Gilda and everybody.

Friday night, we had the run through for the network and a full audience and my my thing just it just killed yeah but it ran like five and a half six minutes yeah so now we have notes afterwards and lauren says and billy i need two minutes i said you need me to take out two minutes no i need two minutes total. We're running very long. And I didn't understand that. Yeah. And throw in the fact I'm 25 years old, 26 years old. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How could my thing kill?

It really was one of the stronger pieces in the show, if not the strongest piece. Wow. Now I got to call everybody. I got to call Buddy. I got to call Jack. And I'm on it five to one I'm in the

I'm in the dungeon spot you know and I more than likely I'm gonna get dropped yeah cause the show was running long

anyway so and it's live so you're waiting yeah so now now we're they're in the room

with Lorne they're going back Lorne had other things to worry about he's got the premiere of a network show yeah I understood that and in the room with Lorne and going back. Lorne had other things to worry about. He's got the premiere of a network show. Yeah.

I understood that. And Belzer's doing a warm up and Buddy and Jack come out and says, come on, we're going. What happened? Well, he won't do what we want him to do.

I didn't have any other material to do. Right. I didn't have a two minute hunk. Yeah. Andy had Mighty Mouse. Yeah.

You know? Right. So he had this amazing little piece. I didn't have, I was too new. Right. I didn't have a two-minute hunk. Yeah. Andy had Mighty Mouse. Yeah. You know? Right. So he had this amazing little piece. Yeah. I didn't have, I was too new. Right. So, you know, I think the office asked for five minutes in the first hour.

Yeah. At least have us in the first hour. And he'll take out whatever he has to take out. And he couldn't guarantee it. Yeah. And so, you know, we ended up, I ended ended up leaving right um and it was horrible yeah feeling because i i knew that it was going to be groundbreaking right it had to be right um and so that was my that was bad yeah that was yeah i came back the next year lauren brought me back um i was on the show that ronesson hosted, who was Gerald Ford's press secretary.

Yeah, right. Funny guy. Yeah. And I was on that show. Yeah. And then I didn't do it again for eight years until I hosted it when Dick Abasol was the producer. And then you became a cast member for a little while. Yeah.

I hosted it twice that season. Yeah. And then that summer, Dick called me and said, listen, I got a crazy while. Yeah, I hosted it twice that season. Yeah. And then that summer, Dick called me and said, listen, I got a crazy idea. Yeah. If I could get Chris Gaston, Marty Short, and Harry Shearer to come, would you come as a cast member?

And I thought about it for like six seconds and said yes. I just knew it was the right move. It's funny, because you guys did some great stuff. Great stuff, and people think that we were there for years. We were there one year. Yeah. We were all there one year.

But out of that one year came Ed Grimley, came Synchronized Swimming, became Fernando. You know, I hate when that happens, guys. Ball Players, which was a piece I did with Chris where we played two Negro League baseball players in a film that was so my favorite thing that we did that year. Chris and I were always together doing stuff. And that was the first time you worked with him? Yeah, but we were good friends.

It was the first time we really got to jam. Right, right. Oh, that must have been great. Oh, it was great. And it was a fantastic time. Can I just tell you how much I enjoyed the moment where you went, all right. It's just that I've told it i've told the story but that was a great honest moment you know yeah so so then you know after soap you know you're you're kind of you're doing the stand-up and you

get this uh i guess what happens though you're a guy. You can act. Oh, I get a variety show at NBC. Right. I get my own variety show. Brandon Tartikoff gives me my own show. How long did that run? Two episodes. Great. Good run.

We did six. Yeah. It was supposed to be a summer replacement. Yeah. When that meant something. Yeah. Yeah. Rock Hudson was on a I don't know,

McMillian and Wife or whatever, has a heart attack. So he can't do his show. Yeah. We had already taped a show. Yeah. And he said, you're on this week. We had no promotion. We're up against Fantasy Island and Love Boat on ABC,

which was gigantic. I'm on NBC. Yeah. 10 o'clock. Uh-huh. And it was, you know, it was just starting to find itself. Yeah.

The ratings weren't good. Nobody knew who the fuck I was. You know, as far as that went, I was the guy from Soap. And you were doing a monologue, you were doing a song and dance thing. It was a big variety show. Yeah, yeah.

No song and dance. I had a monologue. My first guests were John Candy, Rick Moranis, Dave Thomas from- Doing Sketches. Doing Sketches, yeah. And that's where Fernando got born. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So the first two aired. We didn't do any ratings. But the show was starting to find itself. Those shows need time sure everything needs time and and we were coming in to do the fifth episode two had aired and i got in the office and i was you know i was like always fried yeah because i i could feel it wasn't quite working you know the ratings weren't good right right and uh on the way in a friend had called

and said you okay yeah yeah i got it we're doing a good show tonight again you know it's really good we got the shelly duval and manhattan transfer and and you know it was it was a good it's a good show we're doing some better stuff yeah and i hung up i I go what did he ask me for I was okay so I get into the office trades are on the table trades are on my desk and it says NBC cancels Billy Crystal Comedy Hour

nobody told me right the fuck is wrong with your business can you imagine that nobody told me yeah and then I had to go out

and do the show. For some reason, because the pressure was off, the shows got better. I didn't give a shit anymore of that. I knew we were done, but the shows got really good. But that was a terrible,

terrible thing to do. You alright? Oh, yeah. Jesus. That phone call that you hang up, you're like, what? Yeah, it's the guy who ruins the surprise party. So have a good time tonight at the party. How are you?

The Yankees. The Yankees. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God. So it isn't easy. So then, you know, I was back on the road. I was playing Vegas and doing all kinds of places. And it was, you know, because even if you fail, you were there.

Yeah. So, you know, you could make a little bit more money and play a little bit bigger places. And had Jack Rollins told you what he told you when he was 100, maybe you would have been able to not take it so hard. Oh, but you can't. No, when you get canceled like that. No, it's embarrassing. It's like everybody in the country looks at you and goes, no. That's right. It's a terrible rejection.

And also in the business, you know, like it's literally maybe they ruin the surprise party, but you're still the asshole who's going to go out there. You got to do a show and everyone around you is like, poor guy. There's that. There's that. And it was like oh man you didn't sign up

to be the victim of anything you were doing a show no and so then then I did my second HBO special which was a

really good show I've done six yeah second one was called The Comics Line and it was the opening was a parody of a chorus line

yeah so I played all of these people auditioning for this special oh yeah it was really fun I was a parody of a chorus line yeah so i played all of these people auditioning for this special oh yeah it was really fun i can't remember that yeah yeah it's good and that was what michael fuchs was there yeah yeah and um it got it got really strong reviews and so on so forth and um dick ebersole called me and, we'd like you to host the show. So now I was- Hosting SNL. Yeah.

You're a big comic now. No, no. No, I mean, you're one of the guys. Yeah. Because that's when, like, I think the nation started to recognize that you were the guy that did all the stuff. You did the impressions. You did the great comedy.

You had the HBO specials. Yeah. Like, you were, you know, a top comic. Yeah. Yeah. It was a really good time. Yeah. It was a really good time but but when did the movies come movies come at the end of Saturday live because when Harry Met Sally is that's later the first movie was running scared yeah with Gregory Hines oh yeah yeah yeah yeah

right yeah that was right after SNL and so I was there for a year you know yeah and then then that and then that then comes Throw Mama from the Train funny Princess Bride oh that was all before Harry and Miss Sally Princess Bride with Carol Kane yeah you played a little old guy Miracle Man yeah yeah great have fun Storm of the Castle that thing yeah. And I'm actually in Spinal Tap too. No, I know. The mime. Yeah. Yeah. Great.

And then Harry and Sally and then City Slickers. And then, yeah. So it was a great, it was a great. Plus, you know, I was hosting, in 86 we started Comic Relief. Yeah. So that was a great thing to be able to be with Robin and Whoopi and all the other comics. Now were you friends with Robin all the way through? like did you guys work together was it really that that brought you guys that that got us closer yeah we knew each other you know right but you know he

traveled in a different world yeah in in the late 70s than i did and then slightly more dangerous world yeah yeah yeah but we always had fun together, but when we started to get thrown together in 86, it deepened. Yeah. And he was a very sweet man. Yeah. Yeah. It's a sad thing. And Whoopi, did you know her before

well? No. I had met her backstage at her one-person show. So whose big idea was it? Was it Zamuda's idea? Chris Albrecht. It was Albrecht. Yeah, Zamuda and Albrecht. But Chris is the one who brought us.

To bring you guys together. Yeah. Huh. And it was great. Oh, yeah. It was history-making. It was fantastic times. And to be with all the other comics, it was terrific.

Great. And you meet all the new comics every year. Oh, it's beautiful. You know, when I was in louisville um for ali's funeral um and i was he had asked we had be oh god i gotta go back and change the narrative um i had i had done my first television show with him just by chance. So I could imitate him, and he loved it. You loved it, right?

Loved it. And we became really good friends. It's so weird. It's so weird. That's one of those things. It's one of those. I had it with my two heroes, Mickey Mantle and Ali. I end up being big parts of their lives at a time and their deaths.

Mickey too? Yeah. Yeah. He was a hard character Mickey too? Yeah. Yeah. He was a hard character, huh? Yeah, fantastic, interesting, sad, ultimately. Yeah. But I ended up helping Costas write the eulogy that he gave for Mickey in Dallas. Yeah.

And Ali and I became great friends and important friends, and at his request, I was one of the eulogists. So backstage, Whoopi was there. They had like a green room. And I see Dave Chappelle. And Robin and I, when the first, I think it was the first comic, got Chris to put him on. When he was like 17 or 18? when the first I think it was the first comic relief got Chris to put him on

when he was like 17 or 18 yeah and we we fought for him to be on and when I saw him

he just ran over and grabbed me and talked about that and got very emotional talking about you know that he never forgot at Ali's funeral yeah it was really sweet it was really it was

really become very sort of like he's a grown man now yeah and he's got a lot of feelings and you know it's nice yeah it was terrific yeah and and when you eulogized Ali how what was the experience it was awesome because now I'm sitting there. I first met him in 74. Yeah. Just starting out. I had this voice. I'd do this voice for him at this big dinner that had become a television special.

It wasn't a roast? No. No. Until I got up and did him. And nobody knew who I was. Yeah. I told the story at the eulogy that Dick Schaap, who was the emcee and editor of Sport Magazine. Yeah.

They had made Ali the Sport Magazine Man of the Year for beating Foreman, getting the title back. And he had called my agent looking for Robert Klein because Bob did a lot of sports stuff. Yeah. And he said, well, you could do five minutes on the dais with it. And they said, Bob's out of town. He's not available. And she said, but I got this new kid and he does this great imitation of Ali and Cosell. It's three minutes long.

Dick said, sounds perfect. Just have him show up. Dick said, sounds perfect. Just have him show up. So I get to the Plaza Hotel, and I loved Ali. I so respected him. There were two things you look forward to at a certain point for us, a Woody Allen movie and an Ali fight.

Those are two huge events. Right, right. And sometimes you couldn't tell what was more important yeah yeah and Dick said how do I introduce you so I said just say I'm one of all these closest

and dearest friends yeah thinking I'll go into the co-sell and that'll make sense yeah and I won't have to talk right

I won't have to introduce it I'll just boom bang right in there yeah another Scorsese kind of edit yeah and I walk into the ballroom with Janice, and I'm like, oh, my God, look who's here.

That's Franco Harris from the Steelers, and there's Gino Marchetti from the Colts, Archie Griffin, Heisman Trophy winner. It's everybody is here. There's Neil Simon and George Plimpton. Oh, my God. And I'm led up to the dais. I'm sitting three seats from Ali. And I told the stories.

And he's looking at everybody. And seeing Ali in person for the first time, oh, my God. I mean, he was 33. He was the king of the world. He just defeated a foreman who people thought was going to kill him. And he was a float. He was just an ice to kill him. Yeah. And he was a float. Yeah. He was just an ice capades float.

Yeah. He was like a big, his head was enormous because it was shining. And it was like, oh my, there he is. Yeah. There he is. And he's like looking, he knows everybody but me. Right. And he looks at me with a look that I described as him thinking,

what is Joel Gray doing here? And Dick introduced me after Neil Simon spoke and Plimpton spoke. And the room was electric. It was electric because of Ali. And now one of Ali's closest and dearest friends. And I get up. Two people clap, my wife and the agent. And I go into Cosell into cosale yeah now someone's

yelling at me in the audience i'm getting heckled yeah you remember bundini brown uh oh he's a trainer yeah drew bundini brown yeah he started rumble young man rumbled you know float like a butterfly and he was a loud mouth guy yeah and he's yelling at me yeah as i'm doing my thing yeah we're here in zaire it's spelled z-a-i-r-e someone pronounce it there they're wrong muhammad come over and this starts someone's yelling at me and i realized what he was saying was you got a man you got a man be doing that man be doing that man and i had to shut him up yeah i'm i'm literally 30 seconds into my career yeah and i'm dealing with a heckler right how do you shut him up bundini i'll handle this i'll handle this bring the champ over just bring the champ so now that i'm getting big laughs. Yeah. And I can see Ali's like laughing

a little bit. Right. And then I go right into the Ali. Yeah. Everybody's talking about George Foreman. I'm talking about George Foreman. They say he's going to kill me. George couldn't kill me by big laser punches. I rope the dope was in. And I'm announcing tonight I'm changing my name again. I got new religious beliefs

from now on. I want to be known as Izzy Yiskowitz. Izzy Chaim Yiskowitz, because Chaim, the greatest of all time. It's Jewish boxing, Howard. You don't hit the man, just make him feel guilty. Killing? Yeah, killing. Killing. Killing beyond killing.

He is next to me, and he's now a big St. Bernard puppy. Yeah, yeah. He's putting his napkin over his head. He's getting up, throwing punches at me it was delightful i mean beyond belief yeah get huge ovation yeah he hugs me and whispers in my ear you're now my little brother and that's what he called me for 42 years until the last time i saw him uh yeah, that was pretty amazing. That's amazing. Yeah. What a fucking beautiful thing.

Yeah. And those are those weird things, man. You know, those are those weird things. I know, you know, when you get a chance, I saw you on, I guess it was Letterman. Yeah. Talking about being with Mel and Carl. Yeah.

And, you know, you get a chance to go to the museum you get a chance to see the Ten Commandments I mean they're that and I was talking about one of those moments but being with Dave on panel that was the first time I got to do that

I had done stand up on a show a few times but I never get the sense that he really knew who I was or anything. Right. So that was the first time in my career, and that's only a couple years ago, where I was able to sit down as a guest with him. And, you know, I can't even, like, you know, because he was my guy. You know, I love Dave. Right. So just to have that and then to have it go well and to have him to sort of have that moment.

You know, you only got that seven minutes. Yeah. Are you going to engage? Is this going to happen? Yeah. And, you know, you don't even remember it. You're in it, and then it's over, and it was like that moment. You know, you only got that seven minutes. Yeah. Are you going to engage? Is this going to happen? Yeah. And, you know, you don't even remember. You're in it, and then it's over, and it was like, that happened. Yeah.

But he was, you know, I felt him. Oh, yeah. That was the greatest thrill. Yeah. Was when I, you know. You must have been with Carson, right? Yeah. But Dave. Yeah.

Dave was like a peer. Right. Johnny was a god. Right. It was different. Yeah. I was in a totally different place. Yeah. I loved coming on with peer. Right. Johnny was a god. Right. It was different. I was in a totally different place. Yeah.

I loved coming on with Dave. Yeah. I loved making him laugh. Right. I loved... Our relationship grew as a panelist. Right. That's what you want.

Yeah. You want to be one of those guys. Yeah. And it got great. Right, that's what you want. You want to be one of those guys. Yeah, and it got great. It got great. I used to, you know, the two, three times a year you would do the show, it was like I so looked forward to making Dave laugh and hanging out with him for a while.

Well, that's what I did with Conan because I wanted to be one of you guys. Like I would see Richard and you and Leno on Dave and I'm like, that's the guy. I don't want to be the standing guy. I can do that. That's actually a pain in the ass. Yes, it is.

So, you know, I can do it, but it doesn't represent me well. Why can't I be the guy where they go like, uh-oh, here comes, I want to be that guy. Yeah. Now, like, let's just go through the movies a bit because, you know, I would imagine that even though you did all those other films, that when Harry Met Sally was such a comic masterpiece that, you know, that, that changed the perception of the industry about you. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I guess so. I think so. I don't know. I don't know what they thought about me, but like, I think people,

what's amazing about you. And I, and I mean, this is a compliment was that it's hard, but when you can do, when you can carry as much, you know, comedy as you do to sort of like surrender the stage and be a straight guy you know in a comic

situation i don't i don't think that people appreciate the significance and power of that oh thanks yeah do you know what i mean like you know when it's happening oh for sure i mean i you know um magic johnson you know won championships because he passed. Right. And he was a great passer. Yeah. And he could score when he had to. Sure. But he made everybody else better.

Yeah. I, you know, who can do this alone? Right. And I've been fortunate to be paired with great, funny, or interesting, or great dramatic people. Mm-hmm. You know, where, like with Bob, with De Niro, I was very much a straight man in that movie. Yeah, no, it was great. And I loved it.

Yeah. Because I kept thinking about, listen, I love Laurel and Hardy. Yeah. Stan was hilarious. Oliver was more interesting to me because he usually was the recipient of the unintentional hit in the face or whatever it may be. And he would just look at the camera. He would look at the camera and go, do you believe the shit I have to deal with?

Right? Yeah. And so with Bob, he was the funny guy. I developed that script and wrote the draft with Peter Tolan. For the first one? Yeah, for the first one, before Harold came on. He's a great screenwriter, that guy. Yeah.

And I would have to be Bob a lot in the writing sessions. I would do him as best I could. And then we got the script right, and I called De Niro. I did not know him very well. And I said, I have something. I think it'd be really, it's really funny. And he said, send it. So we send the script.

Two days later, he called me, he says, I like this, I like this. Let's do a reading. Yeah. I want to, let's do a reading. So he flies out to California, and we cast the best we could. We got actors in.

We go up to a boardroom at CAA, and now I'm sitting across from him, and he's hilarious. And right away, I know my job. You know, I know it. I know what I do, and I'm doing it in the reading, and he's laughing at me not doing much. Right.

You know, I'm just like taking it and I'm, because I played a guy who listened for a living. Right. I played a shrink. Right. And shrinks don't

come right back at you. Right. He listened and I was intimidated by him, which I was. I was scared of him, which I was a little bit. Uh-huh.

But I also was loving the fact that Robert De Niro was having a good time and is sitting across me and holy shit, this is going to work. Right. And that was fantastic. I love it. I love it. I love doing that. I'm a good listener.

I'm a good listener. No, but it's like I think that you were equally as funny. I think that the dynamic is what it is in in that you know the way you process things you're like okay okay when he says listen if i talk to you and you turn me into a fag i'm gonna kill you no right right and i said well we should define what you mean by fags. Look, if I go fag, you die. You got it? And coming out of his mouth was just, it was genius. It was just genius.

And nobody be offended. It's lines from the movie. Right. So that was it. It's fascinating, though, because I watch him now, even in the last movie, and I talked about it recently, The Intern, that he's a very amazing actor actor obviously but like he can just tweak that character the gangster character he's played you know over and over again yeah it's just one knob turn to menacing

you know like how he does the comedy it's kind of interesting well this was his first real funny role right and he was nervous about it oh am i gonna be able to play these guys again yeah and he took a long time i said yeah i said bob you're you're i you're you're an icon i'm just saying that to him yeah just face you're different you can always play like those guys because you're so honest it's so real yeah that you know this guy needs to be real yeah and my guy needs to be real and we're gonna our our styles people will go what the hell are they doing together right but it'll work because we both

are gonna exist in our own realities the best we can do it and he took that yeah and it was great yeah both of them are funny

and the first one you know he he says this was I think pretty fantastic um

he tells Harold um He says, this was, I think, pretty fantastic. He tells Harold, I want to change the shooting schedule. I don't want to see Billy until it's time to see Billy in the script. I want to do all my anxiety stuff, all my stuff first. Yeah. So when I see him, I'm ready to see him. So they change the shooting schedule. And I was a producer of the movie too, so he asked me not to come to the set.

Also, he said, I just don't want to see you until, please, and okay. So Peter and I did a lot of rewrites and stuff and had stuff together in that time. So now we're going to shoot on the set, and it's my office, and it's Bob's entrance into my office with Jelly.

So we meet at 6 o'clock in the morning, whatever it is, and he's frumpy, and he's unshaven, and we go over preliminary blocking for the scene, and Harold's saying, so you move in here,

and I think, let's just run it, and he's looking at the script, and Harold's saying, so you move in here, and I think, let's just run it, and he's looking at the script, and he's just very sleepy-eyed. Yeah. All right, and then, where do you want me to go? And I said, Harold, the shot's going to break down. Why don't you come in and say, do you know me?

And Billy says, yes, I do. And then he goes, no, you don't. All right, no, I don't. You ever see me in the paper? I don't even get the paper. You know? know right and then the shot would break up yeah and harold would say cut so i said all right it's gonna be about an hour and a half so we'll go and get dressed and and um i'm nervous i'm a little nervous yeah And Harold's on the set, and then Bob appears, and he's not Sleepy Bob. He's the guy.

Yeah. He's Paul Vitti. He's dyed his hair. He's shaved. He's in a Gotti-like suit. Uh-huh. And he's scary looking. Yeah.

It went to 11 really quickly. Yeah, yeah. And we do a quick little rehearsal, and he doesn't say his lines. He says, I'll be here. Okay, okay. And action. He walks in. You know me?

Yes, I do. No, you don't. No, I don't. You ever see my picture in the paper? I don't even get the paper. And cut. Cut. Whoa. He goes, come here even get the paper. And cut. Cut. Whoa.

He goes, come here. De Niro calls me over. Yeah. And I'm thinking he's going to say, is that how you act? Yeah, right. Yeah.

Instead he says to me, in a very, he started whispering on this, he makes you come to him. Yeah. If you see anything that could be funny or something, you think I could do better,

just take me aside and tell me, all right? Don't say it. But, you know, of course, you know, that's new for me. Robert De Niro was saying to me, if I see anything, I'm his acting partner in this, co-star, if you see anything, help me. It was amazing. Yeah. Next take, right?

You know me? No, same thing. Yeah. And cut. I go, come here. He says, what? I said, is that how you're going to do it? That's it?

And he starts to laugh so hard. Then we were great. Then we were just great. That's it? And he loved it and he could take a joke. Right, right. But it was, you know, I took a chance and I won. Santa De Niro, that's the best you got?

Yeah. Yeah, it was fantastic. You got to set the tone. Yeah, it was great. That's great. Great experience. But let's just talk about directing and a little bit about Mr. Saturday Night and also about Woody Allen.

The Mr. Saturday Night, I loved that movie because I was thrilled that you had this horrible thing in you. Yeah. It was one of those movies like, I know that guy. Yeah, there was a lot of Allen in that. There was a lot of Buddy Hackett in that. There was a lot of these... Did you have a relationship with Buddy? Not really. We knew each other pretty well,

but not like I did with Allen. Yeah, I loved Buddy Hackett. Yeah. I thought he was hilarious. It's so funny. Hilarious. After it was sweet. Hilarious. But I was happy about that take on show business. Well, it was a take on the guys who don't make it. Yeah. Which is a possibility for anybody.

Anybody. Any generation. This was not a success story. Yeah. This was a guy who was his own terrorist who the guys who don't make it yeah you know which is a possibility for anybody anybody any generation this was not a success story yeah this was a guy who was his own terrorist who had who couldn't handle pressure who screwed up big moments in his career we made them as funny as we could make him yeah you know he's the guy who followed the the beatles on ed sullivan you're excited I just bought a house and and it was a comics comics movie yeah I felt that and I respected that and it was lonely and it was he was edgy and and um it was a risk because it was coming off you know uh two really big well-received movies, Harry and City Slickers, and Oscars, and it was like a really good time. Yeah.

And the movie mostly got really great reviews and then no business. We didn't do any business, and that was hard to take. Yeah. Because I directed the movie, I'm in the movie, I co-wrote the movie,

I produced the movie, and we had a movie. I co-wrote the movie. I produced the movie. And we had a 72-day schedule. 53 or 54 of those days, I was in severe old age makeup. It's a lot of work. It was exhausting. But I loved every second of it. And do you retroactively take Roland's uh uh Rollins advice uh and

and appreciate the work you put oh big time it took a long time yeah um we had a screening

of the movie two months ago or something um Malibu Film Society like 350 people came yeah I hadn't seen the movie

since the premiere yeah and it played like a brand new movie they loved it and now we're we're making it a musical since the premiere. Yeah. And it played like a brand new movie. They loved it. And now we're making it a musical. Really?

Yeah, for the Nederlanders who loved the movie and came to us and said, this could be a musical. And so Gans and Mandela and I, we've written the first draft. We had a reading the other day. And it's an edgy, it totally has the spirit of the film and it could really be exciting. Are you going to do it? I probably will.

That's exciting. I probably will. I haven't totally committed yet. Who needs as much makeup? No. I know. I had David Pamer who was nominated

for an Academy Award for playing my brother in the movie. Yeah. He came and he read Stan's part. And I said, David, it'll be a lot easier. We don't have the five hours of makeup. And you directed one other feature?

Yeah, Forget Paris. Yeah. And then, which I really liked that movie a lot. I got to see it. I'm sorry. And my favorite, I love Mr. Saturday Night. It's special to me. But 61 that I directed for HBO.

Oh, yeah. About Mantle and Maris. Yeah. That was a real passion project that I think to this day is like their highest rated movie made for HBO. Yeah? Yeah, I think so. Do you like directing?

I love directing. To me, it's the best job. Are you going to do more of it? I wish I had done more up till now so we've written um two little movies that i i hope to get made that i will direct i i really love and i see myself doing that more hopefully as as time goes on yeah why not if you can yeah and and being that we sort of established it you know woody allen was very important to us and you know and and I know that feeling

of the new Woody Allen movie. Yeah. Even as he just kept making movies. And you were even able to go like, well, that one, no. Listen, I love Picasso. I don't love all of them. Yeah, right, right.

But I remember seeing you, you know, in Deconstructing Harry, which I liked that movie a lot. It's a very good movie. It's a very good movie. And when he cast you as Satan, I was like, oh my God. Let's go. Wait, did he just offer that to you yes did you ask him why you yes and what did he say i i think

you'd be a very unlikely um devil and i think you have to understand um that that understand that I see in the movie, you're my best friend, but I see you, I imagine you as this guy who's going to take this girl from me. So you're the devil. Yeah. And I think you'd do very well in the pod. So you get a letter. You get a handwritten letter and just your pages. And I had known him on and off a little bit through Jack Rollins, who managed him. Yeah.

And we got along great because I just went out. People were afraid to talk to him. I just went and I talked jazz and I talked Knicks. And it was great. He knew my family background. He actually knew my dad a little bit. I used to go to that place on 2nd Avenue. Oh, the record store.

Yeah, to listen to Sidney Bechet. And so I knew all of that stuff. Oh, that's sweet, huh? And I said, Woody, to me, the devil guy is Hugh Hefner. I want to play him like Hugh Hefner. I think he's got like the Playboy, remember the Playboy Penthouse TV show? Right, right, right. The show would come from the Playboy Club in Chicago.

People sitting on the floor and on the sofas. Everybody from James Baldwin to Telly Tavales. Right. And he loved that idea. And so that, yeah, it's a great cast, and it's a really good movie. I think so. Yeah. And that was the only one you did with him, huh?

Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah, sadly. I'd love to work with him at any time. How about hosting the Oscars? Is that done or i'd probably um i don't you know there's so many other no do you like doing that i had a great time doing it for the most part do you look at when you're up there hosting the oscars do you look it out out at the people there and and feel like you know this is

my community yeah especially the the earlier ones yeah. When my film career was rising and the show needed a host, they had had a couple of disastrous hosting experiences when I inherited the job. Yeah. And I was ready for it. I had done three Grammy Awards. Right. I did the Grammys three times.

It seems like a harder gig. Yeah. It's a bigger room. It's weird. Yeah. Right? Well, now, I mean, the Grammys three times. It seems like a harder gig. Yeah. It's a bigger room. It's weird. Yeah. Right? Well, now, I mean, the Grammys?

Yeah. Yeah, now it's weird. Then it was Radio City. It was the Shrine. Oh, right, right. It was smaller scale. Yeah, yeah. Now it's-

Now I don't even know what's going on there. No, it's terrible. It's like a basketball stadium or something. Yeah, it's terrible. The venue. Yeah.

The music is always great, but it's- So when I, you know, I presented one year and then I hosted the first time, I felt part of the community. I was never phased. I can't say I was nervous. And I remember walking out and there's Gene Hackman and there's Coppola and there's Dustin and there's Jack and Warren. And the first night, the first hosting job was a complicated show.

As I recall, they had satellite feeds from all over the world. So we had Sajid Rai from India. We had guys on the space shuttle. There's somebody from reading, opening an envelope in Paris it was like a complicated thing but I had one writer. Who was that? Robert Wall Robert!

Bob and I wrote the first we did all the Grammys, just the two of us must have been frenetic why would you say that? He was very much like Scorsese but a terrific guy and a good and good joke right and we were a good team and we had jack and nicholson had uh the rumor was he made like i don't know 65 million for the first bat yeah some huge deal right so i came out and looked around and Jack Nicholson was doing Jack jokes. Yeah.

Jack is so rich. Yeah. Morgan Freeman drove him here tonight. He was driving Miss Daisy. Big laugh. Jack is so rich

he bought land in Japan. Big laugh because Sony had just been purchased. By the Jack. Just purchased Universal, whatever it was.

Jack is so rich John Peters still cuts is so rich John Peters still cuts his hair John Peters was now the head of a studio and was a famous hair dresser

so that couldn't have gone better inside stuff inside stuff but big jokes he was laughing like crazy

and so on and so forth and I'm like oh my god Johnny stood here right Hope stood here like I'm doing this yeah so i i'm in my dressing there's an 18 minute break yeah i have 18 minutes off while they do

sound effects editing and shit i'm in a dressing room and i'm refreshing my makeup and i take a leak and all this stuff and i'm grabbing a sandwich and who is it? It's Jack and Warren. So I go, Jack and Warren who? Yeah, right. They're laughing. I open the door.

It's Jack Nicholson and Warren Beatty saying to me how great they loved the show so far. Thank you for doing it. Thanks for making fun of my money, Jack said to me. Big hugs all around. Keep going. Have a great show, and maybe we can hang out afterwards. Are you kidding me? Again.

What a generous thing to do. Yeah. It was amazing. Yeah. It was amazing. It was truly. Yeah. It was amazing. It was truly amazing. That was fucking beautiful. So I've had, you know,

I had very good times doing it. You know, it's nice, you know, every year that, where is he? Right, right, right. You get that, right? I do get that, and that's nice, and so on and so forth.

We decided, you know, how can we, and we did it with the Grammys, too. How can we change what the host does? Yeah. You know, and we did it on the Grammys. We did a lot of funny, innovative things on the Grammys. Remember the Leonard Bernstein Young People's Concerts? Yeah.

So, you people listening, Leonard Bernstein was obviously a great composer and conductor. He would have these specials with the orchestra. And he'd pick out the instruments and do it for kids, young people. And he would teach you how an orchestra was put together and so on, and the different sounds of the different instruments and so on and so forth. So I always loved that and I said to to Robert Waltz it let's do a young people's concert but the orchestra is Bobby McFerrin uh-huh and Bobby could do every instrument there was right vocally yeah he could sing every sound like yeah and so we did that we did it as a piece

that music started in caveman times and now he's doing some sort of drum sound in his mouth and the rhythms became infectious and now music comes and little did the caveman know that someday Michael Jackson would own their publishing

that was the joke. And it went on and on and on, but it was different. You know, it was different. So then we came to the Oscars, and I decided, you know, the year before was that horrendous musical moment when Rob Lowe sang Big Wheel Keep on Turning. Yeah, bad, yeah. So the Oscars announced there's no music. There'll be no music. Uh-huh. Right. So I said to the audience, announced there's no music. There'll be no music. Uh-huh.

Right. So I said to the audience, there'll be no music this year. On the show, they applaud. You won't hear stuff like, you won't hear those medleys about the nominating movies. Yeah. You won't hear this. And I did one. Right.

And Mark Shaman, genius Mark Shaman, and Bruce Valanci and I and Bob Walt wrote the first medley where we did songs about the nominated movie. And it became like a big thing. Yeah. Then over time, we created the movies. Now, let's put me in the nominated movies. Yeah, yeah. And so that became a thing.

And then, so we had different things to do. Yeah, you created your own schticks for it. Yeah, and then we did a very successful thing called What Are They Thinking? Where we put people on camera and I would say what they would think and i would improvise those things and so it was that became great fun and and um he had a good time with it yeah they had to you felt it yeah because it's a it's uh it's sort of a thankless job yeah and you can't look at it like that no that's a that's a professional thing and you have a lot of respect for jokes which is good yeah jokes are always good

how do you like alright let's talk about it for a second The Comedians was a show you put a lot into you produced it you wrote it

you starred in it you had Josh Gad with you it was a funny premise it was something that was close to you and it did not take off right so how do you frame that

in your head what do you think happened and what do you live with I live with disappointment that it didn't succeed the way we had hoped it would,

of course. We were working with Larry Charles and it was a great pedigree and Josh was great and a fantastic cast. Stephanie Weir and Matt Oberg

and Megan Ferguson, like great people. And, you know, for whatever, and I think, I totally thought the shows are really good yeah and they got better right with over the course of the time and I and you know we were fighting for ratings we were out we were the lead in for Louis and FX is a tough place to do comedy yeah i think and we we had we had a very devoted too small audience right

right right which is not unusual for television now no yeah you watch television in different ways and and fx wasn't streaming the show right which i think hurt us do you feel like they hung out to dry a little or uh i'm let's just say i'm disappointed that they didn't give us a chance for a second season. Right. In that shows need to grow. Right. They need to develop. I think that's true from my own experience.

Yeah, from the third episode on. The third episode, we had to lay pipe with the pilot and so on, and Josh and I would team together. The third episode, there was a really funny scene where we're on our way to a kids critics award show. Yeah. He and I had both been nominated for voiceover work. Right. Because he was Olaf.

Right. And I'm Mike Wazowski from Monsters, Inc. And he gets me stoned. Yeah. And we stop off on the way because we're hungry. Yeah. And we stop off on the way because we're hungry. Yeah. We stop off at a supermarket in the valley on our way to the Nokia Center, wherever it was. And we just roamed the supermarket ripped.

It was really funny. So now those who slammed us a little bit are writing, wait a second, folks, we were wrong. This show was hilarious, and it's getting better and better and better and better. And that started to happen. Yeah. So now we have a little surge in ratings and so on and so forth, and the shows are getting really good. It's on Hulu, folks, if you want to check it out. For those of you who didn't see it.

And then when we came up for getting picked up up which i really wanted to do because i felt we were just hitting our stride you know yeah and you were in it and you liked it yeah yeah and i love the people and and um it takes them like three weeks to decide what to do and i think oh boy you know we're in trouble we're not going to get picked up which we didn't right and i had a long talk with the head of the network about it who said you know it's very expensive and when i said but i said so let's do less we'd have to do 13 let's do eight louis does seven yeah let's do eight let's do eight great ones and he said well louis does whatever he wants let's move past that yeah and then and then it was you know so then they said i I feel terrible, and I, you know, and they didn't pick us up.

And I'm over it now. Sensitive guy, though. This stuff hits you. It's very hard to. Would it hit you? Of course. You know, but like, you know, a lot of people, they, you know, in retrospect, they get diplomatic. They say it's show business.

But it seems to me that, like, for you and for for people like us you know this shit hurts it's of course it hurts yeah because you know you spend a year of your life with people developing writing working with them you give your your you know it's listen i get it it's part of it the worst the reasons why the worst part the reasons why they didn't pick us up piss me off right and i felt a little embarrassed about that and angry about it that they didn't have the money. Yeah. That the show was going to cost

too much for the next season. Right. So I said, let's do less. Yeah. We'll do less shows. We have to do a full 13. So I'm mad

that they didn't believe in it. They're walking out of the office and you're going, one, let's do one. One. One episode. One 13 hour show.

You can break it up into little the Nicholas Nickleby of comedy so I was you know so listen that stuff happens

I'm glad it's out there people can see it it's on Hulu so but I was really proud of what we did oh good well that's

well that's again that Rollins advice I'm going to remember now it's so important and for anybody listening but no matter what you do you know if you but no matter what you do

you know if you feel good about what you do no one can ever take that away from you. And try to make that enough. Yeah exactly because you just please yourself Well look you know I think you're one of the greats. Oh God. It's very sweet that you came and did this

and I hope it was good for you Let's smoke Thanks Bill. Thanks man I really enjoyed very sweet that you came and did this and I hope it was good for you. Let's smoke. Thanks, Billy. Thanks, man. I really enjoyed it. One of the greats, Mr. Billy Crystal and me. Hope you enjoyed that. Got no guitar.

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