WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 743 - Geoff Tate / Nick Kroll & John Mulaney

Episode Date: September 19, 2016

Comedian Geoff Tate always found it a little odd that Marc needed to squash so many beefs with other comics, because the two of them hit it off so well. Marc and Geoff explore the shared parental connection that helped them relate to each other and also gave birth to a lot of their comedy. Plus, Nick Kroll and John Mulaney stop by as they get ready to launch 'Oh, Hello' on Broadway. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series, streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required.

T's and C's apply. Lock the gate! Alright, let's do this. How are you what the fuck buddies? What the fuckers? What the fuck happened here? Oh my god, I had a brain skid right at the beginning it was jarring did it jar you like are some of you sort of hypnotized with the expectation

that that that thing's gonna go well that that first three list of what the fuck people are gonna just drop right into place like always. I had that same expectation in that moment. And it went south on me. Right there, right out of the gate. All right. Well, you know who you are. Welcome to the show. I'm Mark Maron.

This is WTF, my podcast here at the Cat Ranch, working out of my garage, which I'm, for some reason, allowing to be hot. I just, I turned the air off in the house. I turned the air off out here. I guess I wanted sort of a sweat lodge experience this morning. I wanted to kind of feel it out, get rid of the toxins. I don't have many toxins in me, but I got a few. You always got a few. I think the toxins can just generate themselves with bad thoughts. It's not all about what you eat or what you put in your body. I have this theory that's probably can be proven or disproven that bad thoughts will make your, will create the chemicals in your body to generate toxins. Of course, that's true. Of course it is. Why does sickness come from stress? It's an inside job.

That's right. There you go. There's an analogy for a manifestation of your own self-destruction, even if you're behaving properly. Why am I sick? It's an inside job. No one had nothing to do with this but you. It's going to get you from the inside. Optimistic, beautiful thoughts for a monday morning or wherever whenever you're

listening to this i apologize everything's all right i'm just sweating in my garage and it's fine i feel okay how you doing you okay everything all right with you special show today later in the show i got my friend jeff tate in here he's a funny comedian we get into it get into some real shit about narcissistic parents and then uh in a few minutes i'm gonna have uh john mulaney and nick kroll doing their uh doing their thing they've got their show oh hello on broadway so we'll talk to them about that but what's going on here what's going on with me tour stuff i do want to get a couple of dates out i know i do this but it is it is what it is this weekend september 24th two shows at the wilbur i don't

know where we're at but i know they got to be close to selling out i hope i know that we're doing all right on october 21st campbell hall at uh university california santa barbara on october 22nd largo here in los angeles oct October 23rd the ice house down the street here in Pasadena and uh October 29th Brendan McDonald my business partner and producer are going to be at the Now Hear This Festival it's taking place uh in Anaheim uh it's like uh there's gonna be like 30 great podcasts all live and in one place. And well, you guys asked for it. You can now get single day tickets to the festival. It's on October 28th through the 30th.

As I said, Brendan and I will be there on the 29th. But the whole festival is Friday, Saturday and Sunday. For all the info, you can go to nowhearthisfest.com for the tickets and whatnot. You can also get there through wtfpod.com. November 4th, I will be at Carnegie Hall, as you know. There's a few tickets left. Seriously, selling well. I'm happy about that, but nervous.

I want to push this one, too. November 19th, Nashville, Tennessee, at the James K. Polk Theater. I'm excited to go back to Nashville. I'm excited to eat in Nashville. I'll be at the Vic Theater December 3rd. That's in Chicago. I just have to do this because they're coming up and some of them are rescheduled

and I should want people at my shows, which I do. All right? I did have a few interesting moments recently and I want to give a shout out to the unsung heroes of shoe repair. I don't know what kind of shoes you wear or what level you operate with your shoes, but I wear shoes that need to be resold. I don't wear sneakers much.

I wear boots usually. And you need a shoe guy. You got to have a shoe guy. And I need a shoe guy that feels like a real shoe guy. I can't bring it to you just you got to walk into a shop a shoe shop a shoe guy shop shoe repair dude you got to walk in and they always have like laces usually belts and some purses and stuff you know somewhat displayed in the store maybe in display cases but it doesn't look like any of that shit is sold in decades and then there's got to be weird pictures on the wall of well it depends where

you live you know of like you know maybe uh yes celebrities that are kind of off the grid a little bit like a tony danza shot uh signed you see this at dry cleaners out here too but you know the shoe guy it's important that he seems to know what he's doing he's got to have that that feel that the old dude that's been doing shoes for a long time sees it as a craft probably smoked cigarettes and right there in the back there in the shop there's a lot of leather pieces around there's a smell to it that there's a sort of clutter to it but you know he understands it and he's just got to have this focus where you're going to trust him with this craft it's a craft shoe repair it's a beautiful thing it's a and i imagine there's still plenty of these guys around but they're not not it's hard to find a

good one like i went to this dude george at georgia shoe repair down on colorado and eagle rock and he was an old guy but he was he was sort of abrasive and and it felt he was an old guy, but he was sort of abrasive. And it felt there was an anger to the heel he put on. You know, he made a comment about, like, because my heels were wearing a certain way. He said that, you know, your walk is fucked up. He didn't say fucked up, but he says, you got a problem with your walk.

It wouldn't wear this way. I'm like, I know. Can we just not attack me? I understand. Can you put the heel on? And then he told me about red wings sub subcontracting their heels out and he used to do them for red wings and i believed him and then he just he just sort of slapped these fucking heels on that he didn't know if he had the right size heel i don't know the conversation he was smoking which i like he had pictures which were okay there

was some other old guys hanging out they were were doing a thing. Fine. He also sharpens knives, which is a nice plus because you need a knife sharpened occasionally. But I didn't have complete faith. I felt like he was over it, and he was sort of kind of going through the motions with the heel that he put on. But then I went back to this other guy because I didn't want to go to the George.

I went to this other guy that I went to once years ago at Haroot's over here on Eagle Rock. And I walk in, and I feel bad about this, but I don't know what you're going to do. I walk in, the old man's there with all the stuff I mentioned, but he's got a portable respirator on. So he's got the tube going up under his nose. And he's telling me how you know he got out of the

hospital he's feeling okay but he's going to be a little slow but he's getting back into it and I felt bad for him but then I had that feeling like what if I leave my shoes here and this guy doesn't make it is it gonna be a problem getting these boots back I like these boots and I thought like dude you can't really think that way you know if you want this guy to have the work and he believe in his work you should give him the work and and hope for the best but I was sort of ashamed of myself that I had that thought like I might never get these boots back because this guy might not live and then I really didn't know and it was going to take him a long time because he's moving slower so I gave him a few weeks and I went back in there you know he called me and I went back in

there and I looked at these boots and the bottom of these boots were like art they were like fucking art he did a sole and he did a heel and he sort of like trimmed around the leather on the sole in a way that looked like he was you know focused on it there was little divots in there that he put in that was obviously a stylistic decision and he put a little coat of polish on the sole and the heel. And it just had this kind of soft, perfectly placed vibe to it. And I couldn't stop looking at the bottom of these fucking boots. Like, this guy's a genius.

This guy's an artist. And he is. And he's got this respirator set up. So he's got about 30 feet of line. He can move around the whole shop. And I thanked him. And I thought it was beautiful. and we did a little fist bump and he seemed genuinely excited that he's back in the groove and they just i'm afraid to walk out on him but i can't stop looking at these

fucking soles and heels it's so beautiful to see a craftsman do his work with passion and focus and experience even if it's fucking shoes. And most importantly, shoes. All right, so here we go. It's always a party when I have the young fellers on, the young guns of comedy. Some people think I bust too much balls on the young guys, but they can take it. It's part of their training. Right?

But I happen to love Nick Kroll and John Mulaney and their show Oh Hello is now on Broadway. Performances begin this Friday, September 25th, and it's running for a limited engagement of 15 weeks. So go get your tickets at OhHelloBroadway.com. This is me and the incredibly funny and talented Nick Kroll and John Mulaney here in the garage. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that.

An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription

required. T's and C's apply. Calgary is an opportunity rich city home to innovators, dreamers, disruptors, and problem solvers. The city's visionaries are turning heads around the globe across all sectors each and every day. They embody Calgary's DNA.

A city that's innovative, inclusive, and creative. And they're helping put Calgary and our innovation ecosystem on the map as a place where people come to solve some of the world's greatest challenges. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look at CalgaryEconomicDevelopment.com Can you hear me? Oh, it's great. Kroll, Mulaney. The Young Guns. Oh, yeah.

Estevez and Sheen. Diamond Phillips. So I saw your show You did? Oh hello I was on it You were? You saw it at Largo man

I did not only Did I see it I was the guy on it Yes you were You were a wonderful guest on it I was the guest on it And the tuna Is that a spoiler?

No No That's fine You can reveal it The tuna sandwich is That's not a spoiler If people are gonna go see The Broadway show It's often times spoiled But it's not a spoiler. If people are going to go see the Broadway show.

It's oftentimes spoiled, but it's not a spoiler. It's been left out, but it's no surprise. So my thing is, it's very funny, and I enjoyed it. And I'm just going to get right into it. Let's go. You know, I mean. I know you guys. I'll give you notes.

Please. We're going to Broadway, man. We need notes. We need all the help we can get. When is the theater in Broadway you're doing? The Lyceum Theater. That's a nice theater. I was fascinated with the characters.

George, give me the full name. St. Geegland. And that's you. Yeah, that's me. And Gil Faison. Because these are New York characters that are so ambiguous. Thank you. But like, you know, where did those, I mean, I kind of know, like, there's no point of

reference for me to go like, oh, these guys. Right. But you had, I mean, they're in Albuquerque. They're everywhere. No, I know. The guys who were kind of artistic and never quite manifested. Also rants. A couple of artistic also rants.

Yeah. Who are super liberal. Right. Super misogynistic. Right. A little racist. Kind of gay. Yes.

Well, yeah. As John describes George St. Gieglin when he when yeah my character's neither female nor jewish but like many men over 70 somehow both uh yeah and it's just a it's a it's a and and then gill is like a you know a little baby yeah he's like an old man baby um and it's probably always but i think it is that kind of guy who who is was an artist in some capacity and so he sees himself as such even if he's not creating art anymore and is not actually the liberal the bastion of liberal thought that he believes himself to be like that of that baby boomer era right so these are those guys you just see walking around the west side the upper west

side that you just wonder about their lives. Their clothes look really sort of old. I wonder about their money so much. Yeah, you do? I'm like, you live in that building? Where did it come from? Where did it come from? How does it work? Even if it's rent-controlled, how does it work?

Yeah. How do you get a couple hundred dollars together? Yeah. Because you're not working. You're not working. You're saving catch-ups. Yeah. Where does it come from?

I wonder that about everybody. And then you just wonder, did they manage your money well or did is there money there or do they scrape by i mean i think social security yeah i think they're on social security they jumped on that just straight up pride yeah i think like there's lots of eviction laws we don't know about that are super byzantine and it's hard to kick two guys it is hard to kick people out yeah and they're living on like the the ramen flavor packet yeah like if you went into their home you'd be like oh this is incredible if you if you went through their budget point by point it would really suck like well i get scared of that too just like you

know you you think a lot about like what you're gonna do and then you realize you just talk about doing it or you think about doing it and all of a sudden your life's gone yeah these that's where you meet our that's where you meet our heroes they never became richard dreyfus and philip broth and they're kind of still not realizing it that's exactly it though isn't it and it's just like you because like if you don't have kids or you don't have a wife and you just have each other like they do or whatever the hell their backstory is then is that you don't really sense your aging and no if all you have is the mirror to yourself is this other person who's in a similar same relationship you've had for 45 50 years and you still insist with each other you're going to hit it big and deserve to with no point no reality check no why yeah how did you guys start making

the show what was the what was the the kernel of an idea was it a sketch it was sort of a sketch i i was um we hosted a show together at refifi. You remember in New York about 10 years ago. And I had been hosting a show with Jesse Klein. And then she moved out to L.A. And I asked John to host the show. And we were trying to figure out what we wanted to do, whether we would do stand up or something. And we had started talking like these guys. We had seen these two guys at a bookstore at the Strand.

Of course. With their own bags. Yes, they each had their own tote bag. The old Strand bags, which we used to say was, Strand is eight miles of books. And 12 miles of loneliness. And so we go in there

and we see these two guys buying their individual copies of Alan Alda's Never Have Your Dog Stuffed. Hardcover. Hardcover. Just came out. Great book, by the way. Great book.

I just talked to Mr. Alda. Yes, I know. Wonderful conversation. Amazing. He's such a real actor and artist. Yeah. In a way that we're not. And a curious guy.

Yes. Like a sweet guy and like, yeah, thinker. And he's like, he likes science. Yes. He hosted, what, 13 years Scientific American. Yeah, he's like he likes science yes he hosted what 13 years scientific american yeah he's very into making sure kids like science yeah uh can you imagine yeah can you imagine caring about that that's so noble i really respect that i like that's why i don't have children because i don't care because i don't can you imagine pointing the stars out to them and

lying and making up names so we we see these two guys buy their book buy that book and then we we just immediately kind of become fascinated with them follow them out of the strand to like a diner coffee shop you're following them now we are now following these two men yeah and we follow them and and then as they sit at a coffee shop and both start reading their sink their copies of uh of alan alda's book never Never Have Your Dog Stuff. Not talking too much, but clearly like conjoined twins. Yeah. And we just, they just became a focus point of guys that we've been interested in.

Right. This was also the time of like, what was this, 2005? This was when a lot of people through the New York Times had just heard about Jon Stewart or something. Right. It would be like, people get their news from Jen Daly. You're the worst. And those types of folks were really...

That was a high date. There was a generation that maybe were on the pulse 40 years ago. When New York was like... When Dick Cavett was on. Yes, when Dick Cavett was on. Yes, when Dick Cavett was on, when Ed Koch before and after became mayor.

And the literary lions meant something. Yeah, and Elaine's was still open. You could get $30 spaghetti. And maybe they ended up near CBGB's one night, you know, or like they were outside Studio 54. It's that time when New York was dirty and sexy. Yeah. And kind of porous. They could have made it downtown.

And these guys probably weren't actually a part of that scene, but they were close enough to it all that they could feel like they were a part of it. Well, the funny, also the funny thing about the show is it does take on theater in a way. Is that like, you know, there's an idea about theater and what theater should be and what, I don't know what it's become necessarily. It's definitely a big money business with, know shows that are based on we think we're gonna be as big as the lion king yeah i think so i think so we think it's going to be as big as the lion king which is made just as made about seven and a half billion dollars but the show we

don't have the economics that worked out since we're a limited run, and we have hard ads. It's going to be close. Yeah. It's going to be close. But within the show, you kind of play with, like, you know, Armisen used to do a one-man show guy. Yes. So you guys kind of play with amateur theater a little in a way.

Amateur and professional. It is. We sort of, I think the idea is that we both love and hate theater. As theater fans do, I think. You had to sit through some bad ones. Yes, it's interminable. There's a new trope that John added in recently that George

when someone coughs into a handkerchief to show that they're dying and they just have a little spot of blood. Right, so then they can show the audience like oh this guy's dying okay let me cheat that to the audience show you a spot of blood yeah uh or the one-sided phone call where you get all this information out about what the other side is like right like you'll kick takes a call and he's like and yeah trying to show and the police that's who you are. We've seen great plays,

and then you'll see plays where you're like, how did you know or think this was done? Yeah. You know, like, they just end. Yeah. Those types of midline. Yeah. Whoa, you're going down a sentence.

I don't understand a lot of plays. I don't either. And yet, I love going, I do a good piece of, I do think a good piece of theater is. Good theater is the best. When it's really good, it's amazing. Did you go see those Annie Baker plays? Yes. She's great. Flick. I thought that was unbelievable. Did you see

The Humans, the Stephen Carroll play? No, I haven't seen that one. That was very good. Those are new people that I was introduced to by my friend Scott Rudin. Ah, your dear. Nice. Yes. Hey, Scott. If you're listening out there, hey, Scotty. He'll go see you. Yeah.

He loves theater. I know. I saw Flick downtown, and I thought it was, it's like over three hours, and I was not at any point bored. Normally, I could be in an hour and a half. One set. One set, three people, three hours, and I was enraptured the whole time. But I was sitting there watching the play, and this woman opened up a plastic canister,

a plastic of blueberries, and starts eating it. And I was like, oh, thank you. And then there was an old man who was like a George St. Giegland type wearing like a Nantucket hat. Right. You know, like a Martha's Vineyard, like pastel hat. And he became super focused on the woman eating blueberries so I was watching in an annoyed way gesturing to no one and to everyone

so angry to his wife can you believe this this woman eating blueberries it was the plastic making noise so he was going nuts so for me and I walked out of that show and was like John we have to do a bit about how people everyone should be welcome to eat food during our show. Yeah, and open your containers slowly.

Make a lot of noise. But the funny thing is, when I talk to Annie Baker, it's these subscription theater goers that don't know what they're going to see, that want to remain involved and think it's important, and they show up for these shows that they're not going to understand, and that's you two. Yes. You're the ones that go to that.

Yes, exactly. We talked to Will Ferrell about it and he was like, just wait for night 50 when the people are staring up at you like, what is this? He was like, it's the best. But also, it'll be an interesting thing with our show because we are, George and Gil are those subscription theater girls. Everything about them is subscription, including their clothes.

That was my point. Right. They have subscription shoes. So we will see how those people, and we normally... The very small people, the very small group of people that you're directly satirizing

will actually come to your show. They will decide whether we live or die. They're literally a dying breed. The people we have flushed out of their holes and choose to satirize. Yeah, there's going to be people in your shows in New York that are like,

this is too close to home. Too close to home. It's like having leukemia and it's only your estranged brother has the bone marrow to keep you alive. Right. Although someone said once about,

a comedian said about fat jokes, they always work because no one thinks they're the fattest person in the room. I think all of them will be like, I'm not the most failed writer in here, so this is great.

Well, the bottom line is is that in order to maintain a delusion long enough to still think you're going to make it, you don't think of yourself that way. Of course not. No, of course not. It's one of the saddest things about show business. Also, I think that we live in,

yeah, you're still out there going like, I'm not the irrelevant one. Yeah, you're the irrelevant one. It's going to happen, man. You never know. You never know when it's going to happen, man. You never know. You never know when it's going to happen. Louis Black was 40 when it happened. That's what I heard.

And our guys are only 75. That's right. And I think Dangerfield was 60 when he really hit big. And I think they hold both of those men up as like... Yeah, Lou Black was 40 when it happened. We're only 35 years. But our dear friend Lou Groovy is... Lou Groovy's still not happening.

Yeah. How much improv is there on a given night outside of the guest section? Given night can range, I mean, 20 to 30%. Yeah, I'd say there's... Really? Yeah. Because we forget a lot of stuff. We forget our lines.

But that's the fun, though, right? Yeah, and that's what keeps it... I think part of it is like we're kind of constantly trying to surprise each other with new jokes that will keep us eating and invested and engaged. And also, there's always a moment right before we walk out where Birdland, by the way, the report is playing. We do look at each other and go like, I don't remember it tonight.

For those nights where it's like, I think I know it tonight. And then those nights are like, I don't know. I don't know. But we will sing the right before the Birdland comes on backstage and we will sing a song to each other. Yeah. To the tune of Birdland about being close friends with the mets yeah it started off as oh the mets are a recurring theme the mets are a part of it show you know uh the mets are but all that because that 80s i grew up in new york and and in the 80s mets that 86 mets scene was like a

real key for me but it's all of that stuff stuff that I think is, but for some reason we sing this song about how you can become friends with the Mets. I mean, honestly though, this was, this became like, this both started dead serious

and the biggest joke in the world. It was like, what are you going to do? It was like, George and Gil are going to be on Broadway. Yeah.

It's the biggest fucking joke in the world and yet it became the thing that was like, To them though, it's a fucking natural next step for George and Gil. It's a victory lap.

Of course. And a you're welcome to New York. Of course. Are you going to do special things because you're in New York? Are you going to... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. We have special guests.

I mean, are you going to get a Met? Yeah, we're trying to get Met. We're talking guests already. I mean, we're... We're going to get a Met cap for sure. We are... If we don't have Alan Alda on the show, I will be...

I will see all of this as a fail. Why couldn't you? Of course you could get him. That's the goal. I mean, you know. He likes to do things. We don't all have the cat ranch, though. You know what I mean?

No, but you know, he likes to do things. That would be a dream. And we'll have, but the goal is to have. Name some other hopeful guests. We had a call this morning about getting Trump's doctor. Yeah, we want Trump's doctor. Oh, that guy looks like a horse team. We want Bernie.

We're going to go hard at Bernie Sanders. Because Bernie, the idea is that George and Gil go back to the Burlington days with Bernie Sanders. Sure, sure. That George and Gil were in the Burlington Three. And Bernie might know about the one gay experience. Exactly. Yeah, at Ders Health Food Store. Yeah.

All the preserves. Nothing but the preserves watching us. Yeah, the back story that George and Gil were in Vermont when Robert Durst had opened the health food store. And we drove him out of business. We said, you little psycho, get out of town. You could just time travel with these guys. Everywhere.

East Coast. There's some zealot quality to them. Any time I think they're getting irrelevant, like, bam, Robert Durst is out. And it's like, yep, that's them too. They knew him. Okay, Bernie, bam, Robert Durst is out. And it's like, yep, that's them, too. They knew him. Okay, Bernie, Alan Alda, Trump's doctor. We're going to get a bunch of...

A Met. Yeah, we'll get a Met. We'll get a bunch of Broadway people on, hopefully. Oh, yeah? I mean, we'll be there during election, properly in the election season. I would assume Trump will ask to come on. We'll assume, yeah. Would you do that?

No. I guess not. He's like a super funny comedian that like it's gone too far yeah it's gone too far yeah it's like uh the doctor thing was so funny in the next day that picture of the doctor and then the duane wade thing came out and i was like dude can you let us have your doctor for 24 hours yeah just give us five minutes yeah to enjoy your doctor before you're a monster yeah broadway people like like what? Nathan Lane or somebody? Yeah. Oh, we'd love him. Yeah. Nathan, Patti LuPone.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, if anybody's listening, we want you all to come on the show and George and Gil will be- Jeffrey Gurian, if we can. Oh, God. That would be a gift. Jeffrey Gurian is a part of our show. Jeffrey Gurian actually is a part of our show.

You have to do two different deals. One's for his hair and then- He knows that stuff. We had him on the off-Broadway run. He's our security. The Gurian Angels. Who, by the way, so we had Jeff Gurian on.

People don't know Jeff Gurian. He's the king of comedy. Google Jeffrey Gurian. G-U-R-I-A. You got it. And you've seen him. Have I seen him? I've seen him my whole life.

I just, I don't know. Is he still a practicing dentist or is he not? Jeffrey Gurian, DDS. I don't know if he practices. He does comedy a lot. But he's a healer. He was a dentist.

He was a dentist. So we had this thing called the Gurian Angels. He's our security, like the guardian angel. So we made him a red satin jacket that said Gurian Angels. We made him a red beret that he would hold but won't wear because it will mess with his hair. If you could get Trump's doctor and Jeffrey Gurian on one show. The odds that they don't know each other are so slim.

So Gurian comes and does our security for, we did a press conference that we held, that George and Gil held themselves. Comedy Matters. That's Gurian's website. And we made it on there. So Gurian is our security and then he comes and sees the shows

and he goes, you know, I'm actually, I've been friends with Curtis Lewa from the Guardian Angels for 30 years. I do his teeth.

So then he brings Curtis Lewa to the show. Who wears the jacket and the real beret. Yeah. Yes, he does. He's the inventor. He's the king.

He's the king of the satin jacket. Armisen was our guest that night and I've never seen Fred, you've known Fred Va the inventor. He's the king. And Armisen was our guest that night. And I've never seen Fred. You've known Fred. More starstruck than when he met Curtis Lewa. Oh, really? Because he's a Long Island kid, you know, Fred. So he was like, oh, my God, you're Curtis Lewa.

And he was like, yeah, I am. And he was like, Jeffrey used to help me when I get my teeth knocked out. So their arrangement was like 80s Curtis Lewa gets punched in the mouth on the subway, goes to Gurian, Gurian patches him up, he's back out on the street. Yeah, Gurian might be involved. Gurian will make sure

to be involved. That's the one promise we can have. Oh, who else though? Who else? I mean like the... Joe Piscopo. We've talked,

we have an end to Piscopo, we want to go to Geraldo. We want... I was watching this thing on Morton Downey Jr. Why don't you get Cavett? Cavett was on the show in New York. We would have him back. If Morton Downey Jr. was alive, this thing on Morton Downey Jr. Why don't you get Cavett? Cavett was on the show in New York. We would have him back.

If Morton Downey Jr. was alive, we'd have Morton Downey Jr. Yeah. I feel like Gil would go to those tapings. Oh, for sure he would go. But, like, you know, there's, like, the John McEnroes of the world. There's, like, everybody. I mean, I'm also... There are a bunch of names.

All one of them. Sondheim we want. We want Sondheim hard. We want to get Sondheim. Steven, if you're listening, we're huge fans. Duo hello. What about Malkovich? Yeah, I'll take Malkovich.

We'll take Malkovich. Good actor, great actor. If he's listening, great actor. William Hurt. Oh, a dream. Please, a dream. Dreyfus. Richard Dreyfus.

Richard Dreyfus. Gil Faison. I think that's who Gil Faison has in his crosshairs. He saw the apprenticeship of Doody Kravitz and was like, why aren't I in that movie? Why am I not the Joris? Why am I not Joris? I could have been eaten by a shark. He's never even seen it.

No, never seen it. He doesn't actually know what it's about. Dreyfus would be great. Dreyfus. He lives out here, though, I think. But we'll, I mean, that's the goal is. We'll do a Jet Blue, not mint, but we'll fly people. Yeah.

We'll do a Kristen Chenoweth. We'll do a, you know, and then we'll have like the, you know, hopefully our friends who are- Kelly Ripa. Kelly Ripa. We want to go on. George and Gil want to go on The View. They want to go on.

Yeah, we really want, George and Gil really want to be on The View. Yeah. That should be doable. That's what we're working on. We're working on George and Gil, Dr. Oz. Well, all this money goes into advertising and doing these things

because it's not a pricey production, the two of yous. Yeah. Well, all this money goes into advertising and doing these things because it's not a pricey production. The two of yous. It actually is. We have a proper Broadway set and union guys. But it becomes a much bigger... We are trying to take a show that and scale

it to wherever it is. Yeah. When we started to do bigger houses like the Wilbur and the Warner, it was like, okay, let's project a little. So by doing the test shows in these other markets, you realize you could build- Scale it up, baby. Right. But you didn't have a set there.

We had a beautiful backdrop that was different than the Cherry Lane set. But that was just for traveling reasons. At the Wilbur. So our set in New York, our Broadway, is going to be a real- It's going to turn? Maybe you could turn around and you're at the Strand. I'd like a little Lazy Susan just in the middle, just for us to turn. Just for dumplings.

Yeah. For sweet eggs. Time has passed, and now a slow turn. And now a slow turn, and we dip egg roll in the duck sauce. A turn so that we can each pop a pill that we've pocketed the whole time well it sounds fun so the plan is you're gonna have a guest there are they we'll have guests but we also on the road did we would pull people out of the audience so we would my guess is we'll have a mix of broadway people political people hollywood people comedy people but then also

we would pick like a kids out of the audience in you know and and we pulled a pick kids out of the audience. We pulled a geologist out of the audience in Boston who was working on The Big Dig. Really? Yeah, in a way, that's almost as much fun as... And I listen to your show. It's like sometimes it's the discovery of someone's life that is as interesting as knowing everything about them. I get a lot of requests for people to...

for me to interview just people people. Have you done that? A person person? Yeah. Not a monster who's chosen to become an artist. Not someone with an artifice selling something? I don't think I really have. Just like a guy who, like, you know, my optometrist is a jazz trumpeter.

Really? Yeah, he's got a place right down here, but he's a Jew from Indianapolis, I believe. Really? His father, I think, was like a pharmacist or something and he grew up a jew in wanting to be a jazz guy and he's part of the indian like i should have him on thriving indianapolis has he ever played with goldblum uh no but he plays down here at the york like once a week with his trio and he's got records out i would like to me i would love to hear i would happily listen to that interview he talks like a jazz guy yeah yeah man he talks like that he's like yeah you got a cataracts bro yeah no

bros you know like yeah yeah man you know i saw a doctor once who was a lord buckley enthusiast you know that jazz boat comedian and we talked about lord buckley the naz yeah yeah it was a full physical where we talked about lord when he laid it it stayed stayed there. That is fucking... Buckley's good. Yeah. Yeah? I would love to have... I mean...

De Blasio we'll take. We'll take De Blasio. We'll take Al Sharpton. We're hoping for Al Sharpton. You can get those guys. Would you want Rudy or no? No, not now. I don't think so.

Not anymore. Well, I mean, he's too active. We lay in. Rudy gets a piece from us. Oh, he does? Yeah. Well, I mean, if you guys, and I think you could handle it, and he knows how to play, but you'd have to go at him a little.

We'd let him dress up like a lady, which is what he wants to do more than anything. No one focuses on that anymore, but he did that like nine or ten times. The eight years that he ruled New York with Gestapo-like tactics, but then once a year would be like, oh, look who's in the Rockettes. Come tactics, but then once a year... Once a year, it'd be like, oh, look who's in the Rockettes. Come on, we're having a good time.

Everyone's arrested. Everyone get in the car. So you're not worried about booking a guest for every night? No, no. I think because I want... It's really fun

to pull people out. It's fun to pull people from the crowd and I think the crowd... You want to just make people feel, and I believe it to be true like everybody that night is having the experience of being in that show

on that night. And also by not remembering our lines it helps. Have you guys tried crowd surfing at all? Oh my gosh. Those guys have I think I just added to the show. I know. By the way, there's like the calcium supplements that these guys are not taking.

Yeah. They would literally crumble backwards. And you just hit a hard flip phone when you hold their pocket. Have these gone on sale yet? Tickets are on sale? These suckers are on sale. These suckers are on sale. Ovalobroadway.com.

Yes. Come on. Ovalobroadway.com. We can't say this enough. I mean, it's, I will, both John and I, I think, are super comfortable pushing this so hard. Yeah. Like, just because it's like the most fun thing to do. Yeah.

So it becomes like, I have no. What, are we going to lower its integrity? Go see the thing. Go see it. Go buy tickets. Go see the goddamn show. They're more expensive than you think. You're going to pay more than you want. But it's okay. Go to the show. It's a night out. It's for us. Go to dinner on Go buy tickets. Go see that goddamn show. They're more expensive than you think. You're going to pay more than you want.

But it's okay. Go to the show. It's a night out. It's for us. Go to dinner on 44th Street. Have a weird meal that's Italian. Tell the waiter you have to leave by 6. Enjoy.

Go eat expensive barbecue that's not that good and be exhausted. Come to the show and be exhausted. Go to dinner at 5.30. Pay way too much. It's all over at Yeah. Come to the show and be exhausted. Go to dinner at 5.30, pay way too much, it's all over at 9. Try to do a peanut M&M sugar boost and then crash so hard.

There's 12 places that look exactly the same right there. Oh, God. If you buy a soda, you're not going to get the cab because you know you'll whip it at the stage

and get a sippy cup. Go have terrible spaghetti and then come see the show. Hard spaghetti that even a college student wouldn't make. Stand outside and try to see if there's someone who will call. Well, oh, Lin-Manuel, get him. Oh, yeah, there's a big ask out to him.

But, you know, Oh Hello and Hamilton are big runners. We're going hard at Hamilton. Yeah, we're taking all the steam because the main guy left. Yeah, because the guy who wrote the show and started it. Did you guys see the show? Yes, we did. How much did you pay for tickets? I paid a lot of money. Is that my fault?

I think it's you. Yeah. A classic Marimba ring. Who do we have? Name names. I get these weird calls from the New York area selling things. Did you donate to a political campaign? No. Is that what it is? Yeah, because I donated to our main man. Yeah. Bernie, Bernie, seven, eight months ago.

Don't jump down my throat. It was a while ago. And it was one who was cute. And now I get calls from everyone. These are your surveys. I'm getting,

I get about three now, two or three calls a day from like Kissimmee, St. Florida or like wherever. Right, right. And they're like, you want to refinance?

Yeah, and it's like, this is the IRS. You are, we are foreclosing now. That would send George and Gil into a deep panic. Oh my God. All they need is our credit card numbers

and they'll straighten it out. Social security. Do you guys think diners club still? Okay. All right. All right. All right. Well, thank you.

Thank you. It was great. I'm so happy you guys are going to do it. Come and be on the show in New York. Be a guest. When is it run? We run from September 23rd to January 8th. Until the show gets canceled.

I don't know. If I'm going, I'll tell you. Come be on the show. Don't you have business in New York? George and Gil are going to prank you so hard, baby. I'm going next week for a few days, but I don't know if I'm going back again. We'll be there every night. God damn it.

Every night. Even Mondays? Mondays were dark. Mondays were dark. Mondays it. Every night. Even Mondays? Mondays were dark. Mondays were dark. Mondays are terrible for us. Mondays are dark so that George and Gil can take an Epsom salt bath. And float. A 40 hour.

They do like a, they do an altered states. Floating. Yeah. Floating. In the bathroom. Yeah. They do it in their own tub. Yeah.

They do it in their own tub. With a blindfold. All right. It's going to be fun. I'm glad you guys came by. Thank you, Mark. Bye, Mark. Thank you. Bye. Bye, Mark. with a blindfold all right it's gonna be fun i'm glad you guys came thank you bye mark thank you bye mark fun right huh aren't those fellas fun go see that show it's something it's so it's like a

a beautiful hot-rodded vaudeville go see oh hello all right you can go to oh hello broadway.com jeff tate is going to be here momentarily last night the comedy store i was talking to some dude some guy kind of cornered me fan but it's nice to talk to him australian fella and uh i had to pee i like talking to the fans and i'm you know try to make some time but this guy was talking and talking i'm like i gotta pee and finally i just said uh hey man i gotta i gotta piss and this guy just looked at me and goes all right dude kill it is that really the right it made does that signal the end of that term of that phrase kill it am i really gonna kill it peeing am i gonna nail it I going to do it out of the box? I might have done that a little. Anyways, Jeff Tate, funny dude, Ohio dude.

His most recent comedy album, again, is now available. You can check out his tour dates at justanotherclown.com. And this is my friend and me, my friend Jeff Tate, chatting like a couple of comics. I met you the first time at Go Bananas, right? Yeah. The next time I was there when you were there was the weekend I found out my separation was a divorce. That's right. You're a sad sack guy.

Yeah. We were driving around. Yeah. You're in trouble. You're in trouble. Yeah. And that was when I, so you, see, I didn't even remember that first one that you were there. Yeah.

Well, the first one was a very, like the first one was interesting because it was like the first moment where I thought I could be a comedian yeah because i did you know you're mark maron so i did i had my guest set my seven minutes yeah and i front loaded it with all whatever political social commentary jokes i had at the time yeah and then i just started talking about my wife and her parents and stuff and my brother was in the back and he said that that was when you came out of the green room. Yeah. So I was like, I tried to do all this, the Marc Maron influenced material. Yeah, yeah.

And then I just started talking about my own dumb life. And then, so I get off stage and you're back in the green room. And then when you get introduced after the feature, you walk by me and in the room, you just go, good show, man. And I was like, holy shit, I might be able to be a comedian.

Oh, I hope I didn't mislead you, Jeff. Well, I mean, those guys, certainly that shit about the fucking wife and stuff, that was going to hit home. Yeah, I remember you were in it. You were like, it was really happening. Yeah. Yeah. But then when I go back, that's when we went to the Creation Museum and created that classic

WTF, me, you, and Ryan yeah and some girl right yeah it was that girl that uh ryan was saying from baltimore oh yeah oh yeah megan i think yeah she was nice yeah yeah she was smart and nice and i couldn't understand it yeah look at the fuck yeah that was that was a that was a great day but you were you were feeling bad. So that means you started doing comedy in when? 2003, maybe. Early 2003. And you grew up in Ohio? Sort of.

I mean, I moved there when I was 12. I moved there in 1991. What was in Philadelphia? My ex-wife's parents. And so I started comedy, and then at the end of, at the very beginning of 2004, I started, so I started comedy. And then at the end of two, at the very beginning of 2004, I think something happened. Like her mom was, her mom took a health turn. Yeah. And so she wanted to go out there and be near them.

So we just, we just moved out there and lived there for a year and a half. Her mom got better. We moved back to Cincinnati and everything fell apart. I met you. Then we moved, then we had to move back to Philadelphia for a little while because she was working for her dad. And then we moved to L.A. And then we split.

And then I saw you again. That's right. It was sort of coming back together, the disastrous L.A. run. Yeah. Oh, man. All right, so wait. So let's walk through it. Because Ohio, to me, is a very bizarre place.

But you moved there when you were 12 from where? Southern Illinois was the place I lived right before then. I was born in Englewood. Yeah. Right out here? Yeah, out here. In that hospital that became a soundstage. Like someone told me it's where I was born in the hospital that Scrubs was filmed in.

Oh, really? It's that hospital? Is that the one where they do Children's Hospital? I think so, yeah. I think so. I'm not positive. This is secondhand. I like it.

Add it to the Jeff Tate mythology. Yeah. That's what happened. It's now a soundstage where you were born. And then we lived around Southern California until I was like five. Yeah. Then we moved to up near Modesto, a place called Turlock. Why?

What was going on? My dad's a minister. Get the fuck. Yeah. What kind? All of them. When I was born, he was Church of Christ, like the no music Church of Christ, the very fundamentalist Church of Christ.

Then we switched to the christian church which sounds generic right but that is a specific version of christianity just christian yeah but a christian church yeah but it's it's their their bylaws and their dogma yeah it's different from other like church of god and assemblies of god yeah so we were in the christian church for a while then we when we moved to uh cincinnati yeah uh we we started going to a church that was more non-denominational like unitarian no it was still uh still christiany it was like non-denominational pentecostal like there was like speaking in tongues and stuff very weird but it was vague it's still jesus oriented yeah yeah it's still very not affiliated yeah that's what you're saying yeah it was like a one-off yeah like a mom and pop if i i find out the more i find out about that

the ministers and getting into the ministry and being a preacher it's it was all kind of mom and pop now you're like like you was he you don't have to be ordained right can't you just no that's the interesting thing about being a minister and that's like that's one of the things that has fucked me up uh was because my parents didn't believe in like psychiatrists and stuff and therapists right and that's a weird uh blind spot in religion yeah his mental health right because they have the uh faith and the jesus and the god so when you're a christian scientist they don't let you get surgery yeah yeah you can't have you can't go to a doctor so they uh uh if they but my parents thought those

people were crazy right if you fucked yourself up you went to a doctor sure but when i would have i would start having panic attacks when i was 11 really yeah the earthquake in san francisco uh broke me i had like weird survivor's guilt uh-huh uh we lived in olympia washington at the time but i saw it happen on television i'm watching the baseball game yeah and i just saw like that was it like once that happened and my parents were fascinated by it, because my mom's from the Bay Area, Pacifica. Yeah. And they met in Berkeley in like 72.

Really? My parents did, yeah. Were they- They were like the only squares in Berkeley in 72. My mom went to UC Berkeley from 64 to 67 and doesn't know any of the cool stuff. None. None. She just missed it.

She remembers there being a bus that would park on the quad, and it would make her have doesn't know any of the cool stuff none none she just missed it she remembers uh she remembers there being a bus that would park on the quad and it would make her have to like walk around it yeah to get to class and she would just be like why don't these people just go to class but it was like was it that was keezy's bus it was prankster yeah it was the merry pranksters yeah oh she just missed bypassed it yeah she's walking by like who are these idiots they're like oh that's everybody oh you were so close to having an interesting childhood. In a fun way. Yeah.

I don't know, hippies can go bad too. But I would have had a less interesting adulthood. Right. I feel like. I don't know, hippies fucked up their kids in a whole different way. You know, the Jesus discipline, whatever the hell you grew up in, you know, the no discipline fucking weed in the house thing, that doesn't always pan out either. No, no no no i had a there's a very real chance i could have turned into uh alex p keaton the guy from family ties michael j fox right his parents were hippie liberalism

so wait so you're growing up with a preacher that just shifts denominations uh you know with the market i guess yeah was that really it i suppose i. I mean, there's a couple of family jokes between me and my brother because we would hear the same. Just two of you? Yeah. Yeah. We would hear the same sermons when we would switch towns. Oh, yeah. So it was almost like my dad wrote 75 sermons and got tired of writing new stuff.

Right. So he would just switch towns. Oh, so really he just couldn't keep topical? Yeah. Why would you? Why would you? Do about a year at one place and then just fucking bolt so what was the goal though like were you growing up like that was he trying to amass a flock i mean how did it work was he a funny guy no he had those uh no it wasn't funny the things he did that were funny uh were only funny to me and my brother. Right.

They weren't even funny to him. Not on purpose. No, never. Unintentional funny. Like every time he pulled his goddamn pitch pipe out of his pocket to start to lead worship, that would just make us giggle. Yeah. It was just so dumb.

But so did you grow up, you had to go watch him in church? Did he have his own church? How does it work? All the, yeah, we had to go all the time. It was easier for me to skip school than it was to skip church. I would have to be like on my deathbed sick to not go to church. It was kind of a, looking back, it was very bad. Yeah.

A lot of church. But what, but like when you go to another town or you'd move, how does it work? Is there a preexisting church? Do you have to rent a church? I don't understand the... Oh, no, there's a pre-existing. Like, the churches would... Oh, they hire you.

Yeah, you get hired. You give them your resume. Yeah, it was basically like... Like, these jobs are so very similar. Yeah. The jobs that... That we do? Let me say the job that I have

and the job that he had. Yeah. Because neither one of us were ever really successful at it. Yeah. I can't compare them to you because you became successful i ended up in a garage though yeah but you're still working from home it's hard to do hard to be a preacher from the house well not really i guess with a microphone but you can't people over yeah you can have your own uh your am uh talk hour sure for that it was uh so he was a failure as a minister i don't know

i mean i don't believe in god anymore and this is the first time i've publicly said that really yeah i i wrestle with it all the time in my head because i i what's saying it or believing uh believing and i try to fight uh because it's it's comfortable yeah it's comfortable to say i believe in it but i don't i don't yeah and it's a there's so there's you don't use it yeah i don't use it because it's like the god that they describe is such an asshole like why why do i have to have that well what was the pressure like when you were growing up and you go these different churches and what you have to show up in your suit and be the the preacher's kid on sundays and oh yeah holy shit man the uh the most trouble i could get into was if i made him

look bad right and he would and it didn't matter what it was it was just like an eight-year-old being eight with a bunch of other eight-year-olds yeah he would lose his fucking mind on me really yeah because you like you embarrassed him yeah i wasn't uh i wasn't representing him or whatever and jesus yeah i guess but what about these other kids like it didn't it didn't matter it was all it was all perception based and well you give did they make you believe in hell yeah yeah yeah i was terrified of it until uh i read something on my own yeah right and then when you realize uh like there's an interesting thing about the bible it never says people go to hell right the version

of hell that everyone believes in is from that book by dante yeah right right it's not the inferno yeah really yeah there's no there's a there's a lake of fire or whatever that where the angels that turned yeah with lucifer yeah where they go right it says the people who die who are unbelievers are just separated from god which is also a very uh logical uh like proof of reincarnation yeah like why wouldn't this be where you had to come sure if you fucked up the last one right but no hell but no hell like there's no hell in the there's no hell in the bible even like but when you were growing up did you have to pray every night now yeah really yeah yeah every night every meal, all the time.

It was very, oh boy, it was not, I'm starting to get a little panicky just thinking about it. Was that what your panic attacks were about? The earthquake and God? No, I just got, I was just so, sort of, I suppose it was the fear of, like it instills an unbelievable fear of dying. Yeah. Because it's such a fucking crap shoot right of anything right oh if you don't if you do anything wrong and then die you'll go to hell right right right then you see plus it was just you know i was like a sensitive kid i guess and uh just watching those watching all those people die on television. And then every night at 6 o'clock, it would be on the news for another month or two.

Right. And they would watch it every night. And we had one TV. Yeah. And it was just that same footage over and over. Like, there is. Catastrophe. Yeah, man.

There's like three things that pop into my head very regularly that I have to kind of push out. And it's the top level of that two-story bridge. Yeah, the big bridge. The Challenger explosion, which I also saw live. And Dave Drovecki's arm breaking. That baseball player. Yeah. Those pop up in a loop.

Indelible. Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah like those pop up in a loop indelible yeah yeah i remember what there was a period in pop culture history where people would trade these horrible videos of shit bad shit oh yeah and there's a couple of them took years to get the fuck out of my head i saw i think i saw one of those the guy shooting himself people would put together those videos everyone got it it was in a batch of whatever bullshit the freak who made it would give you like it was gave you yours i don't know man it was going around it had a collection of just horrible shit like some dead kid being pulled out of a pool it was just like fucking

an assault of morbidity and i don't know what now it sounds it is it was horrible yeah i got mine from jim short oh really yeah the comic yeah no i know i might have gotten some source to like because i met short in san francisco back when that shit was happening pat and oswald was in the loop there was just this dark shit around you know there's weird magazines and just dark shit there was those faces of death videos yeah but those those were those were bad yeah but and i don't even remember if I watched one. I had one, but these were just bootleg videos of fucking morbid shit. Yeah, the bootleg ones felt worse.

Well, the Faces of Death was always something that was being filmed. Yeah, right. And this felt like you were sneaking it, like peeking through a window. Yeah, where the fuck they get this shit? Oh, it was, who knows? All right, so now you're a panicky kid. You got a dad who's a minister. The world is ending, and you're starting to freak out,

and they don't help you. Oh, that was the other thing was the rapture and the apocalypse and all that shit. Was that real to you? Yeah, but it was a constant, it was like a countdown that you couldn't see where any moment, and they would say that you would hear the trumpets blast from the heavens.

And then all the good people would ascend to heaven. Bolt into the air. And so it was like, it was weirdly. Like if I would hear music with horns in it. Just out of nowhere. Yeah. It would startle me like i would jump yeah yeah yeah it would turn out to be like sam cook or something from a car at the stoplight

was your dad that kind of preacher uh yeah he became he became more of that as he kept moving along in the religion like that was more when we were in the assemblies of god and the church of god what is that one what's the assemblies of god assemblies of god is very uh pentecostal speaking in tongues holy roller did he speak in tongues yeah really and and my mom did too my mom admits now my this is my mom admits that she was peer pressured into faking it yeah and my dad uh won't admit that he ever did it my dad is just like i never did that never spoken tongue yeah i'm like i remember i remember you doing it it's like gibberish right yeah it's all shabbalahs and stuff yeah it's like yeah yeah yeah yeah

and it all sounds the same yeah and now like yeah yeah it's very easy to uh mimic there's a style you're gonna speak in tongues like someone speaking through you. Make sure it sounds like everyone else who does it. My youth pastor when I was 17, his advice for me to speak in tongues was to just fake it until it became real. So it's just a weird sort of, it's not really speaking in tongues. It's just like a device that was relieving. I suppose, yeah.

I don't even know if it's relieving. What is it? What's supposed to be happening when that happens? The Holy Spirit has taken over your body. Yeah. And now you're speaking in the language of the holy spirit and the language of the lord which is gibberish apparently yeah yeah it just sounds it's just symbolic yeah yeah you gotta warn me if you're gonna do that again it gets i get a little panicky again

like every time you do it i try to hide my cigarettes that's it huh i'm doing it yeah i'm doing it that's all it takes it's a trick so he became more fire and brimstone when he realized that's the way you close the show yeah oh that's a good closer yeah yeah scare the shit out of people was he scary uh probably more so to me yeah than uh the people in the church but he wasn't he wasn't a whack job minister i don't know man how like no but i mean like he wasn't like you'd see him on the fucking pulpit and you were like that what was that monster yeah no you wouldn't do that that's good he was uh he's it's i don't even know how to describe this like i'm for sure not gonna tell my parents i was on on the show you're right uh my mom is much more christian than my dad right uh my dad seems like one of those guys who was like well this is this this will work right i could do this

i need an angle i need a. And then we just kept moving. And also there's like my dad's parents weren't good parents. His dad was a real dickhead. Yeah. And was like very resentful towards my dad. Right. And so my dad grew up with like nobody really like giving a shit about him. Right.

So someone had to so it turned into so he did it yeah that's interesting and now it has turned into like i'm like i've been reading a bunch of books and he's it really seems like he's just got like that narcissistic personality disorder oh really yeah and that's one of the things that explains the 15 or 16 months in each town because that's about how long a group of people can take a narcissist yeah oh that's interesting my dad did that too like when he was moving from town to town working as a doctor so it's narcissistic it's not really a depressive cycle like your dad never got depressed no well it's narcissism is a reaction to depression and loneliness and uh of a lack of self-worth and

self-esteem so uh that's why that's why any like i don't know if you're i don't know if your dad does i i think so from listening to the show and watching right watching the show but my dad can't take criticism at all right like it doesn't matter how big or small the fuck up is. It's always someone else's fault. Oh, yeah. Because as soon as he admits that he did something wrong, the whole thing starts to fall apart. Right. The whole house of cards.

I think that my dad eventually couldn't help but take criticism, and then it did fall apart. Well, yeah. Well, my dad is not. He's not giving in? He's still fighting it. Yeah. Is he still a minister? he's too old now he teaches a class sometimes like a sunday school class right just a couple but he stuck with it

for the whole run of his life the whole run he stuck with it the whole run of my life yeah like i i still find out about jobs and stuff he had that i had no idea oh really mr jobs no he was uh it was like a bailiff for a while oh you mean after you grew up no before before i was born before he met my mom like he didn't go into the ministry until he was 32 yeah and so before that he like he worked on the railroad he was a teacher he was a bartender he was a bailender. He was a bailiff. He told me a funny, he told me a story that was accidentally hilarious. Yeah. Where he also, he worked for a while at a furniture store where he was in charge of giving people credit for their furniture. This was in like 1961.

So there weren't computers and stuff. Right. So I was like, how would you decide whether or not you could give somebody credit? And he was like, there was a list of questions we could ask. Like the first one was, what does your husband do for a living? And the second one. And I was like, hang on. The first one, like you don't even realize how absurd and hilarious that sentence is.

What that means is that they train the credit guy at the furniture store. They're like, okay, the wife is going to come in and pick out out the furniture so you have to find out what her husband does for a living and it just never he just never thought about it again how bananas that sentence is what it's probably timely yeah but it's still like he just in 40 years or whatever he never went back and thought about it like that's probably not so so what happened so you grew up in illinois and then you like you went what'd you do in in high school were you a fuck up but it doesn't sound like it sounded like you get along with your parents all right i get along with them okay yeah like now that i understand uh my dad's uh brain chemistry a little bit yeah it's like you're either you're either there to

feed his ego or you're a threat right and so it's that's interesting i'm much more of a threat to him than my brother and that's why i always got the brunt of everything where'd you fucking pick that up that's pretty good that that because of that's a narcissism thing yeah you either feed their ego or you're a threat yeah interesting what book is this this the this book was called The Narcissist Next Door. Hmm. And it's very fascinating. And it seems,

it's one of those like Gladwell books where it seems like it's going to be super boring, but the guy is such a good writer. And also, but if you're like sitting there going, that's my dad, it has a little more relevance.

I recommend it to read right now because the first two chapters are about Donald Trump and the book was written like six years ago. Really? Yeah. No kidding.

The narcissist next door. Yeah. Now I'm going to look, but I like that. You're either a threat or you feed his ego. There's a lot of people we come across in our business where that's completely true. Sure. Like, have you ever done radio and had a bad experience? Oh, yeah.

Then that was like some usually that's because you were a threat well that personality that the the local the regional you know shock jock with the most market shares those are always megalomaniacal narcissistic dudes yeah yeah yeah it's all i i mean i i'm generalizing and i and I don't want to offend any of you. Some of those guys are good radio guys, but that's true. If they feel like you're a threat right away, it's going to be shitty. They're going to fucking undermine you. That's interesting.

So you're running around with your minister dad, and then you level off. Do you go to college? What do you do? I tried college a couple of times. Yeah. I believe I have enough credits to almost be a sophomore yeah like i did always that option jeff you can always just pick it back up time to go back i don't know i don't know what i was doing because i was i was majoring in journalism in 2002 yeah and i quit

college because i started doing open mics i was like i just want to do that so i was like i took i left one dying industry into it and jumped into another one come on the comedy's thriving it is now yeah but in 2003 was when it was still like death rattling its way yeah i mean where would you start cincinnati i started at go bananas oh that was your home club yeah that's a good club though yeah that was a great place to start there was like 12 comics total yeah when i started what compelled you man what who were your guys i mean what'd you why would you gonna do comedy this part is gonna be dumb no this part one of them's you oh thank you uh my brother actually knew me in 2002 i knew you in 1994 1993 what from conan from uh short attention span theater get the fuck out of

here me and my brother would get home from school, and it might have even, right when it became Comedy Central, or maybe when it was still the Comedy Channel. No, it was Comedy Central. We would watch that. I think Dennis Regan hosted it for a while. Yeah.

And then there was you. Joe Bolster and Mark S. Allen, like that weird DJ guy from Sacramento. Now I feel bad because I just remember Dennis Regan and you. Yeah. But we would watch you on that show, and we would see... Kite Liner. Did you do the A-list?

Yeah. I saw that. I did it. It was me and Amazing Jonathan. Oh, wow. Yeah. Holy shit. And they used to put the headliner first.

And then you'd wait, and it was like he had done, you know, I remember it because the guy comes backstage, he's like, we're going to get you right up as soon as we clean up the blood. Because he used to close with cutting his arm off. So, like. And I think it was, who was hosting it? Richard Lewis, I think, was hosting it when he was a drunkie. Oh, boy. Yeah. uh so you knew who i

was i read i resonated with you because we both have narcissistic dads yeah i guess i mean i was i i didn't know why you resonated with me but i like the uh i liked i liked your style man i remember when this show started i got a text from my friend dave and he was like man's got a podcast so started listening to it right away and he was like, man, it's got a podcast. So I started listening to it right away. And there was all these times where it was like, well, I met you, and it didn't go well and whatever. And I would just listen and be like, man, if I ever get to do that show, I can say it

has always gone well. It was from the moment. Me and Singer joked that we're like penance. Yeah. Somehow you're paying everyone back by you guys yeah when did you start boozing well i started i drank i drank heavily until i was like 22 and then maybe 23 and then i quit i quit when i started doing i quit when mitch died did you work with mitch no i never met him or anything i just when he died i

was like oh i really want to be a comic and if i if i just let all this if i just keep feeding my addictions then i'll die right because i know how i am with drugs and alcohol that catastrophic thinking working in your favor yeah yeah and then i started again when I got divorced. And I quit again on September 21st of last year. I got, today's April 21st. Yeah. October, November, December, January, February, March. Seven months. Really?

That's fucking good. Yeah. Well, so when you're at the club in Ohio and you're just like, you know, kind of, you got a home club, were you on shows with people? Did you meet everybody? I mean, because you're friends with Stanhope too now, right? Yeah, yeah. That thing. Who were the guys that you were watching? How were you on shows with people did you meet everybody i mean because you're friends with stanhope too now right yeah yeah that thing uh like who are the guys that you were watching how were you learning i was learning from uh like eddie gosling was a guy that i saw through the club and i just couldn't believe how fucking hilarious he was when he was fat or just after

oh yeah yeah yeah i've worked with him he middled for me in in texas when he was big yeah that's what i think i've told this story on the fucking show before we're he's driving me around we're going out to get barbecue and he has this little like toyota truck and every time we turn the horn would honk and i was like what the fuck is wrong with your car why does the horn keep honking he goes my fat so he just had pressing it up against it was pressing up against the wheel he had a car that didn't fit yeah he did i think if my car stopped fitting i've bought new jeans before because of my weight fluctuations but if my car stopped fitting yeah you do something really start to work on it he looks good he lost all that weight so you saw him he just killed yeah i i would uh is one of the hand i've probably only fallen out of my chair

laughing twice yeah and one of them was him oh man i learned i learned about being being trying to be myself on stage right from you and stanhope right and the idea well also you when i got divorced i think like that weekend singer was singer had that girl in town so there was some element of uh he was too busy to take care of me so it was like andy was any uh andy was busy with her so you were just trapped so he like kind of matched us up yeah and you talked me out of buying an el camino which was probably good and uh you made me do you made me do a guess that on sun on that sunday night the day you got divorced like three days later and i was like i just don't none none of this works like nothing's good anymore right and you go just do like 10 minutes. I go, I'm going to fucking bomb. And then you said, do you think I care if it goes well?

I just want you to know you can get back up there. God damn it. And it was very. I'm not a bad guy. No. No, it was very helpful. Did it go well? No.

But it proved to me that I could still walk up there. Right. It's horrible when you got the fear or you're all broken yeah it's the worst we got married in 2006 and split up in 2010 so we we were together from when i was 22 to 32 right and we separated on my birthday nice my 32nd birthday uh-huh and what was it what was the problem i mean did she have higher expectations out of you? Well, I'm going to say right now, after going to seeing a therapist every week for the last 15, 16 months since last January.

Right now? Right now, yeah, since last January. I see this lady every week. If I'm on the road, we talk on the phone she'll do phoners uh and i actually usually usually see her twice a week so this is a new thing for you yeah well i don't want to be like i was like a fucking disaster and she's here in la no my therapist is in cincinnati are you still living there i still technically live in cincinnati i'm in la way more than i'm in Cincinnati.

Yeah. But this is like, I have an emotional, it was all that panic attack stuff. And it stems from that. After six or seven months of having panic attacks all the time, my parents finally decided to take me to a therapist, but we're religious, so they didn't go to a doctor one. They went to another minister. Right. And the thing about ministers is you don't have to be

ordained right the jobs are so similar between our job and their job where it's just you could just decide to be a minister right and then if people believe you then you're a minister right and that's it like you don't have to go to college or anything you could take a class but why would you yeah so what was the psychiatric experience uh the first one was nothing my dad came with me into the room which is not how therapy is done it's supposed to be a safe space right where you don't do you think he was the main problem yeah yeah i do well it was it because I got, so the main problem really was, so I say to this guy what the problem is, which was that I just, I see all these people die in my head. Like we watch it on TV all the time.

So now it's just in my head and I just can't handle all of this. And, but I kind of, I probably said it in a way where it's like, they're, they're always watching this. And so the next thing that i hear is not from him my dad just my dad just kind of gruffly goes oh so it's all my fault yeah it's like that that right there is the problem right is no it's not your fucking fault dude you're watching the news you didn't make that happen why the fuck yeah yeah why can't i have a feeling yeah why am why and so like learning about this like yeah my myself my mom and my brother are just we were sort of raised to be unbelievably codependent on

him for our emotions interesting and so getting around that that's why he like so uh he he we have our times now where it's very volatile because I now am trying to establish emotional boundaries with him. Yeah. And man, that's a threat. When I just don't cave. Yeah. It's like this is helping me because I don't know that I ever quite framed it like that. That like, you know, fortunately for me, you know know my dad is scared of me now

wow yeah but you know took a tv show and a book and success because they ultimately when they're like this they only see you as sort of this weird kind of annoying extension of them that they need to behave a certain way and and and when you don't you know it's it's it's like part of themselves is rebelling. It's a weird fucking thing. Yeah. It's so. And they don't want you to succeed. They don't want you to have your own life.

They don't want you to have your own personality, really, because that's all a threat to them. It's fucked up. I never really thought about it that way. It's either a threat or you feed their ego. And that's that. He still thinks I'm a kid. He still treats me like I'm 14. But undermines you, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, completely. So I just don't. When he's mad about something, I don't. Hang up. Yeah, I just let it. This is about you. This is not about me. Yeah, I just don't even take the call. Well, I try to like i

still kind i still technically live in cincinnati because i'm trying to help my mom like my dad's back is so fucked up that he can't really they're together though yeah they're together oh so you got to deal with him yeah i got to deal with him uh my dad he can't really move around very much so he needs help yeah but he's the guy that doesn't uh ever want help like not that he doesn't want help he wants like he doesn't care if you'll do everything for him he just doesn't want to he doesn't want you to know that he needs it yeah because that's now now he's vulnerable right interesting like just be old man stop trying to fight it just you're 76 what the fuck like let it go.

Who are you fooling? I know, dude. They're stubborn. So this is interesting, though. So you actually hit the wall, like what? Just before you got sober and you're like, I got to get my shit together. What was the cathartic moment that made you decide to go to therapy? It was another breakup where this time I found out she'd been, like, she's, like, together with, like, she's already married to the guy she kept secret from me for a year.

The entire last year we were together, she was friends with this dude that I did not know about, never heard his fucking name. And I would just work the road and stuff. She was just stringing you along she was having a thing with him i guess yeah i have no idea right really it really uh broke me up and i kind of had to hit that point where i was like i decided to hit the like i had to shatter yeah just completely and i figured out and so it kind of goes back to my marriage is i was i was absolutely a better husband than my dad was right but that doesn't mean i was good at it yeah that doesn't mean i was a good husband what happened when you two went to la uh we just ran out of money like i couldn't

i was like i've seek out relationships that feel normal to me, whether they're good or not. And so she would kind of, my wife would kind of treat me the way my dad would. My last girlfriend would kind of treat me the way my dad would. And it just felt normal. But not good. Not good. Yeah. Just comfortable.

Yeah. Yeah. So. Comfortable, but only familiar. It's not comfortable. Yeah, familiar. Yeah. Right.

Right. It's like when you're like, ah, I don't want to be on the road. Like, I always want to go home when I'm on the road. Yeah. But that fucking bed at the Hampton Inn is way better than my bed. Yeah. So what is this shit in my head that's like, I just want to sleep in my own bed? Yeah.

My bed is garbage compared to some of these hotel beds I get. Yeah, I took a total flip on that. I'm so thrilled to fucking get into a hotel room. I'm like, i don't gotta do shit in here yeah i try to keep my stuff neat so that uh i'm not i learned a lot of this from the girl that tours with me she's ahead of me in therapy and stuff she's helped me with emotional boundaries and stuff she's very supportive uh her name is emma arnold yeah and she's a hilarious comedian but also like just very emotionally smart her eq

is very high yeah so it's very helpful like when i'm on the phone with my dad and she's around she can hear me not maintaining my boundaries and so then when i'll like when i'll hang up she'll be like you let him get to you yeah like this fucking guy just gets to me you're like no you don't have to let him you don't have to like you decide whether he gets to you it's hard yeah it is hard but it's nice to have somebody around who uh knows who can help and be supportive and she's very she's very supportive and helpful with that and i just was emotionally closed off i couldn't handle the guilt and the fear of hell and earthquakes and all that stuff. So I didn't know what to do. There was no real help in church or I didn't even know about like real therapists.

Yeah. Like I think popular culture and the views on things are very fucking harmful. Like I'm not breaking any ground, but the idea of going to a therapist and all that stuff about getting, getting in touch with your emotions in the eighties, they called it your feminine side. Yeah. It's like, that's garbage. Like that,

that, that pushes people away from it. Well, I think the weird thing is like, and I didn't know this about you cause I don't know you that well. Is that like, ultimately what happens when you grow up like this is that you're sort of denied a,

a, a sort of comfortable sense of self so you have this weird fluctuating thing that you know kind of needs to latch on to charismatic people or people that are familiar because of your triggers and shit and you don't have any ability to maintain boundaries and you don't you can't really fall back on anything you're just falling yeah you know yeah you're trust falling into nobody right exactly you know and it's just sort of like why always can just go and like oh be sad yeah yeah and if i would trust fall and a girl would just like like in this metaphor if a girl was walking by

i would just like hey you're falling i'd be like all right let's get married yeah exactly you're the only one that caught me right exactly yeah i i mean i definitely relate to that because it's easier and you know you your self-esteem is in a place where you like you're not going to get it from yourself no it's based entirely on uh on how other people feel about me this is sort of like yeah it's kind of mind-blowing because i don't know if i've looked at i've done the homework around you know my my father's situation because my dad was volatile so like the one thing i got from him in that falling thing is i was always angrily falling like i i choose anger over sadness 90 of the time me too i did that too like anger was my go-to emotion right because that first of all that's the only

emotion i ever really saw my dad show right uh so i learned how to express that one. And that meant that every emotion I had would be expressed through anger. Right. Right. It would start at anger and then work its way down to, oh, no, you know what? I'm just lonely or hungry. Right. Sure. Yeah.

Tired or whatever. Just all this garbage. Because I did not know how to process my own emotions or identify them. because I did not know how to process my own emotions or identify them because to stop feeling guilty I started to just not have those like I tried to not have that guilty emotion yeah but you can't pick and choose it was just all of them I just kind of boxed them all up so are you doing the recovery thing too what do you mean are you going to meetings every now and then I go I don't uh there's like i really enjoy the let's say camaraderie of it right being like okay i'm not the only one that's doing this but i also don't

uh feel like like i know how i drink and i'm not a straight up alcoholic i'm a binge alcoholic yeah like it's i don't wake up like i need a drink i just know that if i have one there's a chance i'll have 40 yeah it's gonna go on a while yeah and i could still you know i it took a long time in my life to reach a place where it's like yeah i would love to be a guy that could have a glass of wine at dinner or two yeah and have that and just know that that could be it yeah and you know four times four out of five times it is that is That is all it is. But that other time, it just goes off the rails. And then it's 9 a.m. and I'm still drinking, smoking cigarettes in my brother's kitchen. He doesn't even smoke, but I'm just so drunk.

He came down on New Year's Eve younger. Way more together than me. But he bought a house and he comes down on New Year's Eve two years ago. That was the day I found out about the other dude. This was like a week or two after we broke up, but New Year's Eve, I found out about the other dude. Big days for you finding out bad shit. Yeah, yeah. It's easy to remember.

Thank God. So whenever I get around to writing a book, I don't have to ballpark it. So New Year's Day, he comes down because he's got to go to work at like six in the morning and it's 5 30 in the morning and there are 14 bottles of beer empty in front of me and he comes down and he just goes oh this guy's back and i was like oh god damn it is that what i do like and that was the moment i was like i gotta go see a doctor like this guy's back yeah because he had dealt with that for two years or three years after the divorce and then i started getting better and i started seeing this other girl and i stopped being such a mess yeah and then the minute it happened it was like i suddenly it stopped being chaos and

it started being a pattern yeah yeah right right right i was like that was the first time sometimes only people outside of you can see that shit yeah yeah and for when he said oh this guy's back like i don't know if he knows how profound an impact that sentence had on me. You can tell him. Yeah. Well, I'm sure I have, but I don't know. Like, I don't know if it really registered. Right.

Because also we were raised in a way where we don't have very much. Like, we kind of force ourselves sometimes to have, like, weird emotional conversations. Right. Just because we never have. Right. Right. It's weird. You know, right.

So you're in it and you're like, oh, it's too uncomfortable.'s too uncomfortable yeah yeah yeah and we just like kind of push right it out yeah yeah like it's it's almost like those weird moments on fraser when he and his brother have like like a real like when they stop talking about coffee yeah yeah yeah it just gets awkward yeah yeah we do that and so when he said that, I was like, I just got to see a doctor because he's right. This guy is back. And this guy wasted three or four years being drunk and blaming everyone else. And I don't want to do that again. But you were doing stand-up through all of it. Yeah.

As far as I knew. Right? I was drunk. I was blackout drunk for some shows. I was such a mess. And I developed a style on stage that kind of lent itself to that so yeah yeah yeah where it's a little loose already yeah yeah yeah but it's i could have been better right it'd be so much better today if i hadn't done that if i

hadn't drank my way i don't know if you should think that way no i'm not i'm not i i'm saying that i think that way to keep myself from doing it again. Okay. Is because it was easy to waste 32 through 36. Yeah. But I don't want to waste 37 through 40, 41 or whatever. Because I'm getting to that point in my career where if I do kick the bucket, I've now been doing this too long. And I'm too old for people to be like, man, he was going to be something. Right. That window passed. What did he do? what is there to watch yeah yeah it's gonna be like got the one record yeah he had

his shot how many records you got out three yeah this is i just released my third one oh yeah i feel like i've gotten better over this like since i quit drinking it's just it's also the longest i've ever tried to do the same set yeah and so it just getting it's getting tighter and better and uh more interesting i talk a lot about the uh religion and stuff yeah and the getting away from it and all the shame they build into i don't know how long these usually go but we haven't even got to the sex part yeah all that religious shame built into sex yeah and all that stuff because i never got to take sex ed so it was never well what happened well how did it manifest itself it made

me very uh boring uh to the point where i was bored like i thought i reached a point where i kind of thought sex was boring and chore like because i didn't know that you could just get real fucking weird with it yeah and as soon as uh i had a uh well what were you taught i mean were you just taught to stay away from it or it was just for kids you just have kids that's it like what yeah it was uh i was taught sex ed from a religious uh cassette tape series from james dobson uh-huh and they never actually talk about the family what was it, the family, what was his- Focus on the family. Focus on the family.

I haven't heard that name in a while. Yeah, yeah, the focus on the family. They should be like a follow-up, like a secular version that's focused on the clitoris. Yeah, yeah. Where you can actually learn things about sex. Yeah. Because this one was not about, it never once talked about sex they never told you what it was they told you when and how to feel about it and why popular culture presents bad imagery and

these things and like the only thing it really tells you about sex is that it's something that you do with your wife once you're married which is there's no there's no information in that sentence right at all yeah none it's. All you did was schedule it. So you just had to figure it out. Yeah. And I figured it out from just, I don't know. I don't think, like, my ex-wife was raised very Catholic, so she wasn't particularly adventurous,

so it was a lot of face-to-face. Yeah. Yeah. Fucking. Are you good? I'm good. All right. That. Yeah. Are you good? Yeah. I'm good. Yeah.

All right. Yeah. That's good. See you in a week. And then I had a weekend last year where I hooked up with somebody and she was very, yeah, liberating. She was very, let's say, progressive or whatever. Yeah.

uh-huh she was very uh let's say progressive or whatever yeah turns out turns out it's fucking great and it can be really weird yeah and fun yeah just learning that yeah just learning that just finally uh that's good yeah 37 it's a good time to learn yeah it's right right on the cusp of your fucking comic for a decade or more and you listen to all these guys you've hung out with stanhope and a tell probably i mean you know at what point do you like what do you think we were all lying no i've never met a tell and uh stanhope the stuff that stanhope did or would talk about was so weird yeah yeah it's like yeah those are way too many steps away from where I'm at. It's like a fairytale land. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, like I'm not on a scavenger hunt. Right. I'm just trying to figure out. How to have a nice time. Yeah, how to have a nice time. Yeah. So what I'm saying is my dad hit me enough that now I kind of want her to. Yeah.

Whoever that is. Hit me with something. A remote control is a good size and weight and usually nearby. Oh, no. Well well that's all right as long as you're okay with it it's unbelievable your dad punched you punched you every now and then yeah i've been hit with a bunch of things oh really yeah one of those guys whatever was nearby whatever was nearby he had a paddle for a while like a big piece of wood yeah with a handle no shit yeah it was just for hitting just for hitting kids mostly just for hitting me my brother can remember uh my brother can remember getting hit with that paddle twice and i can remember

getting hit with that paddle more than that on my birthday like on very on like my ninth birthday my 11th like just various times i'll fuck up i i got a lot i was confrontational and i grew up to be confrontational again with the dates the memorable dates yeah yeah yeah well it was all uh new year's birthday is not good for you well let's let's understand that there's been other breakups and other times i got hit that were just on random days and those are gone yeah yeah i don't even remember those right but there was uh uh my dad was so uh volatile and angry all the time that when he would start yelling at my mom or my brother i would kind of jump in right and it was like this is weird like i cried so hard like six months ago because i saw i caught the end of goodwill hunting yeah and i

hadn't seen that since i started to come to terms with some of this other stuff yeah and i also hadn't seen it since robin died right and there's that scene when he's like i would always pick the wrench because fuck him and it was like i never like he never laid it out like which one do you want to get hit with but i understand that like that idea where it's like this isn't even about like he's yelling at him and i'm just like well fuck this guy and i would just get in the way yeah and it it was so uh like it just really broke me down wow like exciting time for you yeah like i you know there i can focus on the fact that it took me this long but i'd rather focus on the fact that i figured it out at all yeah or that i at least figured out that there's something to figure out right so you're like in

this like you're in like this rebirth mode yeah everything's new yeah yeah or everything yeah first time it's very uh very interesting yeah i noticed i noticed my mistakes my turnaround time is a lot faster like if i do get upset about something yeah or i fly off the handle like it happens way less now than it used to and also i've now like there are times when it'll take me like 10 minutes before i'm like i fucked up like i should not have reacted like that right and i just so desperately i spent so much time trying not to be like my dad that i never that now i'm trying to figure out what that means, like what that means for me being myself. Like just not being like him is not, like that's not an identity.

That's right. Yeah. Who are you? I'm a reaction to my father. Yeah. Yeah. I'm the new Domino's pizza. Remember how they apologized because it used to be garbage.

I'm that. I'm still not very good, but I'm better than the old one no i i can relate to that and you see because like the the reaction and the wiring is so deep that you know you can identify him in you yeah you know when it happens you know and and you can see like all their shortcomings and how they fucked up and you can see that shit in you yeah so like i guess the only trick is what you're sort of doing by by having boundaries you can have some you can at least accept him for what he is yeah and and disarm that and then maybe accept the things in you that are like him and try to change them because you can't change that motherfucker right no you can't and i can't uh

and it makes me crazy to try like i don't even no i can't and they'll suck into that too because they play those games with the even like the narcissists like what i know is that like if they're feeling shitty they'll fucking drag you right down oh yeah yeah because if they feel shitty and you don't it's your threat that's. That's a really good system. Yeah, yeah. So it lends itself to codependency. Yeah. I never thought about it. I love that thing.

My brother and I would get, well, it would be me, but we would get in trouble. We would get yelled at for goofing around when he was in a bad mood. when he was in a bad mood right but the same like like it was so unpredictable because the same behavior an hour before would have gotten no response at all but now he's pissed off about something right so now goofing around is an attack on him right we're making fun of him for being angry or whatever when we're still just fucking eight years old man like this sort of mind-blowing because like so there was no variation in like there were no prolonged depressive periods or anything like that from him yeah not that i can tell no uh not that i can remember i mean he'll only recently admit that uh his back hurting so much right is depressing right but that's it like he'll be like

it's just you know it's been a rough year so you're like oh you think this has just been a year right your back is hurt for a year you've been like this as long as i can remember and you say that to him can you make no i'm not gonna say that to him oh i can make him laugh but not uh not it depends on what it is. He tried to stop my show in January because I was talking about Trump and that he liked Trump. And he got up, echo bananas in the back of the room, and was trying to get waitresses or the manager to get me off stage. And I had 20 minutes left. and I had 20 minutes left.

The only time he ever gets offended at stuff I do on stage, I've talked about him being a bad husband, a bad minister, a bad father, a bad Christian. The only thing that pisses him off is when I make it sound like he's a bad Republican. He gets really mad. That's interesting because part of him knows that that's probably true, and it is about him. Yeah, he loves the attention. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. He loves the attention.

Exactly. Oh, boy. If he could sell merch after my show, he would fucking do that in a heartbeat. Yeah. He loves to stand in the hallway when people leave and be like, oh, I'm his dad. They're like, that's you from the jokes. Yeah. They don't care if it's bad.

Well, I learned something kind of heavy a couple weeks ago from my dad. We were talking about his dad his dad yeah and one of his one of his brothers we went to see his brother and he was talking about how his brother got it way less than he did and his like his dad lose like with no irony or self-awareness at all is like he just goes yeah billy never got it like i got it it was you know once i left the house he loosened up a lot and has just zero awareness of the fact that that's exactly what happened to my brother also yeah like how my like oh you did exactly the same thing right but he and i said something about his about his dad i was like i was like you know that's wrong right like the way that your dad

treated you was wrong and he goes no no fran he goes francis was really smart he was a really smart man and i was like oh shit you think that because he was smart he couldn't be wrong you think that being wrong means you're not smart and that that just suddenly made a lot of puzzle pieces click the trump thing where like oh i just think you're wrong about trump you think that that means i think you're an idiot right that you don't know anything right i just think you're wrong about that right and i think i think smart people can be wrong all the time right i don't think it has any but also the fact is like this thing that i read about how you have to believe your parents are great when you're really young yeah they're your parents yeah and and if they're in and if

they're fucked up and you feel fucked up about it all you can do is blame yourself yeah so you that and that's where that wiring comes from that's how you feel insecure and fucked up is that you were denied something or abused in some way and you think it's your fault so you you try this dumb ass way of parenting yourself which is just sort of like i'm an asshole i'm an asshole i'm gonna drink i'm gonna you know but that's actually you trying to fucking take care of yourself yeah it's fucked up man it's a weird fucked up thing and i i think my real reaction to that was never wanting kids yeah and then i saw like in the last four or five years i've seen people have kids who are really really good at it yeah and now now i see them and i'm like i could do that where you're like patient and you can be you could just like you treat them

like i see these and you're like oh you can never do that to a four-year-old or a five-year-old it's like i've seen people do that with a five-year-old or a five-year-old. I've seen people do that with a five-year-old. And that five-year-old is like the best five-year-old. Yeah. He understands. I've seen people be like, no, I can't. Until you talk, I can't help you. You just have to calm down and then I can help you.

And then I've seen the kid start taking deep breaths, trying to calm down, realizing the situation. taking deep breaths, trying to calm down, realizing the situation. Yeah. Oh, so like, I mean, Todd Glass talks about it all the time, but it really is, if your first reaction is to hit your kid, you're just an asshole. Yeah. Like, that's a human being. Yeah.

It's not a thing you own. Yeah. You made it, but it's not yours. That's a person. So, like, that's like a big shift where I can see other versions of parenting. Holy shit, I think you're going to turn into a full, well-rounded person. Yeah, I hope it doesn't make me unfunny. It won't, dude.

Some things never go away. Yeah. You feel good? I feel great. It's a good session. It does feel like that. Good talking to you, man. Yeah.

it does feel like that good talking to you man yeah that's it that's mr tate that was the show that was fun you want me to play guitar fuck it man let me put my headphones in my earphones my earplugs i gotta put my earplugs in grandpa's gotta put his earplugs in so he can play loud through his fender champ hold on a second Thank you. I kind of lost it there at the end. I thought I was playing Freebird. Boomer lives! You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats.

But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction.

we'll get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley construction. Punch your ticket to kids night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 PM in rock city at Toronto rock.com.