WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 747 - Rachel Feinstein

Episode Date: October 2, 2016

Comedian Rachel Feinstein has conquered one of the most difficult spaces in the comedy world: The back table at The Comedy Cellar in New York. You better be able to give as good as you get if you sit there. Rachel talks to Marc about her early years of living in squalor and having second thoughts about a comedy career, all while honing her craft and gaining the respect of her peers. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth

at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fucksters what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it good morning good afternoon good evening today on the show we have r Feinstein Feinstein oh which is it god damn it

shit let me call her hey Rachel is it Feinstein or Feinstein I just wanted to double check yeah I figured I was going to say both in the intro

but then I decided why not why not say it right so it's feinstein okay i'll talk to you later bye clarification it's feinstein we got it i went right to the source on that and i and i kept you guys in the loop so what's happening can we do a little uh a little business new wtf cat mugs are available from brian jones up in portland these are the same mugs are available from Brian Jones up in Portland. These are the same mugs I give to my guests. They go on sale at 12 noon Eastern, 9 a.m. Pacific. Go to BrianRJones.com to get yours.

Those are nice things, man. That dude makes them himself on a little wheel or however they do it. But he's an artisan, an artist, an artisan, a craftsman, whatever, man. Those things go fast, so now you know. Those of you who are listening and have not fast-forwarded, now you know. Also, tour dates. I won't go through all of them. I'll go through the ones coming up quickly. Campbell Hall, UCSB in Santa Barbara, October 21st.

There's that. There's Largo here in Los Angeles on October 22nd. The Ice House here in Pasadena October 23rd, and then Carnegie Hall November 4th. There are a few tickets left for that. They are up in the balcony area, but if you want to be part of that, get on board. I'll be at the Vic Theater in Chicago December 3rd for two shows

and Nashville, Tennessee November 19th at the James K. Polk Theater. So those are the most current ones. Go to WTFpod.com for the other dates, like in Tallahassee, Durham, Charlotte, Ridgefield, Connecticut, Portsmouth, New Hampshire, New Haven, Connecticut, Troy, New York, Burlington, Vermont. They're all up there, and they're coming up in the new year. So I won't bog us down with that.

Let's get to the meat of it. You know, I've been thinking a lot about things. I've been thinking about this idea of, you know, not only with the election, but with, you know, just life in general, this notion of trust your gut. You got to trust your gut. I don't know how old you are or what kind of life you've led, but if you really make a couple of columns, if you just list the times where I trusted my gut and how that went versus the time

where my gut had an impulse and I said, hold on gut, let's think this through. I wonder which would be pros and cons. I wonder if the trusting your gut idea really holds up. I don't know why you would trust your gut unless it's immediate survival oriented or getting out of harm's way or an instinct that you have for your safety in a moment. But in the big picture, in the big overarching picture with a forethought and the future in mind, why the fuck trust your gut? Why not think it through a little bit? I mean, if you have the time to think it through here, you'll feel your gut and go like, all right, I get what you want, but, uh, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to have to think about it. I'm going to have to put it through the mental mill and see if that adds up.

And I know some people have trusted their gut and done amazing things and may have changed their lives. But I guarantee you, if you had a life-changing thing or you did something and you said, I'm going to trust my gut on this, right after you trusted your gut, you broke it down a little bit. I guess my point is that can you really trust your gut? I can't really trust mine. I can't trust my instincts. I can't trust my first impulse, usually, you know, if I'm on stage or something like that, but with life decisions or romantic

decisions, most of the time, my dick, not unlike my gut, has gotten me into trouble. So I'm just saying, have a conversation with your gut. You know, don't trust it immediately. Is that crazy? If you think that's crazy, trust your gut on this. What the fuck, man? I've been processing things. Something is happening to me.

I don't know if it's a midlife thing. I think I've exhausted my ability to avoid myself. And I know some of you listen to this thing that you think like, well, it doesn't sound like you're really avoiding yourself. If anything, it sounds like you're overly analytical and self-aware and on top of all that shit. But a lot of tricks you play on yourself to sort of avoid the feelings and my feelings keep bubbling up, man'm choking up i'm choking back tears i'm on set shooting this show with all these women it's like me and 14 women on the cast of this thing and they're doing things you know we're acting and there's scenes where i'm not acting

and i'm watching them and i'm i'm starting to squirt out tears that's not in character just because of you know the engagement the theatrics, real acting, just things happening like weird little things move me. That means that I've got a just a river of emotion that has not been addressed. And somehow or another, I've been holding it back. Right. No matter how forthright I am or no matter how transparent I am, there's still stuff being, there's like a secret well of undealt with shit that will start kind of just seeping through the cracks of your being and into your day-to-day life. So it feels to me like whatever was holding that shit back is starting to erode or starting to break down. And I don't think it's a bad thing. I think a lot of things have

happened in the last few years. And I know that maybe some of you can relate to this where you know certain things are are either better or they're worse but they are they is it is where we're at there is no avoiding it and that moment where you're like I can't avoid this shit anymore that's sort of a scary fucked up moment but I guess I just got to let shit happen i gotta let it come out i gotta be okay with it i just feel like the full evolution into me not being able to bullshit myself is happening and i'm not thrilled with it because it feels like a regression but i don't think it is i think it's actually growth sometimes when you're regressing maybe that's where you fucking left off and you got to start there maybe it's not actually a regression it's actually your your your defense system breaking down and saying hey look

you know sorry but we we had to protect you from yourself or at least help you avoid feelings it was not a great decision but we've kept you in the dark for a long time and now we want to deliver you back to where you left off so uh enjoy 14 year old you and the emotion in the dark for a long time and now we want to deliver you back to where you left off. So, uh, enjoy 14 year old you and the emotion and the emotions that, that, that implies and that you have and, uh, try to get up to speed as quickly as possible so you can be a fully functioning adult. I guess that's my argument. Is it regression or is it just where you left off? Oh my God. Emails. Right, right. Haven't? Oh, my God. Emails. Right. Right.

Haven't done that in a while. Emails. Here's some military-oriented emails. Subject line, New Jersey veterans love you. Dear Mark, I listen to your podcast as I commute to my job every morning in New Jersey. From the podcast, I started watching your show Marin and then turned my guy Robert onto both the podcast and the show. Robert works with veterans here in New Jersey at this transitional residential facility. There are vets who suffered from PTSD, homelessness, as well as drug and alcohol addiction. Most of them were over

in Afghanistan and have multiple challenges as they try and restart their lives. Over Labor Day weekend, Robert set up the TV in the common room so the guys could watch the marathon on IFC. He brewed a big pot of coffee and watched as the guys slowly got into your show. They were cheering and yelling at the TV. There was laughing and hooting and hollering. Many identified with you and your antics. We wanted to let you know you made a difference that day for these guys. They got a temporary reprieve from the demons and daily struggles. Thanks for your thoughtful work and your podcast and TV show. from the demons and daily struggles. Thanks for your thoughtful work and your podcast and TV show.

Warmly, Kathy and Robert. Thanks for that email. It was very nice. I can never imagine. I have no idea how or where people listen to my show and it's always exciting to get emails. Here's another one, kind of military-based. Subject line, I figured I'd give it a shot.

What the hell? Mark, hey man, I know you're busy. I'll cut to the chase. You seem to be perpetually at war with yourself while somehow being incredibly self-aware your transparency about this is admirable i am a 20 year old paratrooper who is good at my job and all the machismo that comes with it however i have daily and violent fights with an inner voice baiting me to self-sabotage. Something I believe you can relate to. How the fuck do you deal with going through an existential crisis? If you can spare a quick word of advice,

that'd be pretty cool since I'm a fan. But if you don't, I won't stop listening to WTF or anything. Just figured this would be cool if it worked out for me. SPC Falco, Troy. Hey, Troy, I don't know what it looks like with your violent fights baiting you to self-sabotage. But given your line of work, I wouldn't give in to those because it seems like there's really only one option to sabotage yourself. And that would seem to be very, a very negative and extreme option.

and extreme option. I don't know. I imagine I would think that if you have the opportunity to jump out of a plane and not die on a daily basis, that would put things into perspective. Given that, given the adrenaline of that,

or maybe it's become a passive activity or a job, that some of that would be relieved. Now I'm having a slight existential crisis to know that a paratrooper doesn't get any sort of adrenal relief from existential crisis by jumping out of a plane. Just be careful, will you? Be careful and wait it out. It's a day-to-day thing, but I have found over time, if you live, things ease, get a better and um and and you relax things become less important man just stay alive don't sabotage yourself as a paratrooper please could you

thanks for listening so rachel feinstein very funny woman i'm glad she was here uh you know i've known her a long time we finally got around to doing this because she's in new york uh you can check her website rachel-feinstein.com for tour dates her specials uh and and more stuff i also want to mention before i bring rachel on that shane moss uh came over the other day to do a wtf episode and he's a very interesting comedian who's evolved a great deal uh it'll be up in a couple weeks but he starts he starts his 60 city tour today you can go to shanemoss.com for dates he's doing this massive show a themed show about hallucinogens and neuroscience i mean this guy is challenging himself so check that out that's m-a-u-s-s moss shanemoss.com for tour. So now, join me as I talk to the

lovely Rachel Feinstein. Damn it. Now join me as I talk to the lovely Rachel Feinstein. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's

Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die we control nothing beyond that an epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by james clavelle to show your true heart just to risk your life when i die here you'll never leave japan alive fx's shogun a new original series streaming february 27th exclusively on on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Calgary is a city built by innovators. Innovation is in the city's DNA and it's with this pedigree that bright minds and future thinking problem solvers are tackling some of the world's greatest challenges from right here in Calgary. From cleaner energy, safe and secure food, efficient movement of

goods and people, and better health solutions, Calgary's visionaries are turning heads around the globe, across all sectors, each and every day. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look how at calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com. Dine. You don't spend a lot of time out here uh no not that much i mean when i do come out i still yeah not enough to have learned where anything is i really have no idea where i am right now what are you doing out here what's going on just nothing nothing that important mostly just hanging out my family really yeah my brother's out here and my niece and nephew so i've just been hanging out with them what What's your brother do?

He works in advertising and does some- Not a show business guy? No. No? Yeah. He just hates his job. He has a real life? Yeah. He has a real life.

And he has a family? He has an honest, decent life. An honest, decent life with a family and kids? And then I come in there, this rancid road woman. Yeah, this gypsy freak. It's just foul, really. Yeah, bringing all that garbage from the streets of comedy

into his home. I do feel like I soil it with my nonsense. I feel like my friends with kids, whenever they talk to me, they kind of change their voice, almost like you're talking to a child. Another child.

Yeah, which they are, I guess. It's fair. Are you having fun doing the thing yeah and that and they you yeah they talk to me in the same because i noticed my one of my best friends that i'm on the phone with all the time she talks to her daughter a lot on the phone right when i'm on the phone and i'm like she uses the same same voice as i have that yeah she uses the daughter voice for me she goes so what's what did you how How was the show? Did you do a skit? Yeah.

Oh, it's the worst. It's just like... And it's hard not to take it as condescending. Yeah. A little bit. Like they're trying to be nice, but it just feels like they don't acknowledge that what we do is a real thing

or that it exists in the real world. Yeah, I think she thinks it's like... Yeah, she definitely... You know, there are moments that it excites them. But for the most part, they think it's foolishness. Right. It excites them when they see you on television. They're like, oh, she is doing something.

Yes. Look, she has a thing. But leading up to that, you're just this freak who needs to grow up. Yeah. Right? And I am. And I think they're kind of correct. That's why it's painful.

Like, they should use that voice with me. Like, I look at, well, my, you know, I'm seeing my brother all week and they're handling of correct that's why it's painful like they should use that voice with me like i look at what my you know i'm seeing my brother all week and they're handling real things they're you know they're family for christ's sake i'm coming here how many kids you know yeah you're you're coming in like hey can i sleep in is there you're not staying there though are you staying there no i'm staying with them you are yeah and they want to hang out with my with the kids yeah with the kids how old are they? They're six and nine. Oh, that's fun. They're fun now.

They're full-form people. My niece is funny as shit. My brother was like... She's very sarcastic and hilarious. My brother was like... She was telling a joke to him or something. She's really telling jokes. And he kind of gave her like a fake laugh.

He's like, huh. He was busy with something. And she goes, you know, your fake laugh disgusts me. Six. She gets it. Yeah. She goes, ugh., your fake laugh disgusts me. Six. She gets it. Yeah. She goes, ugh. Already on to the guy.

He's in trouble. So no business while you're out here? No generals? No meetings? No. I mean, there's like an audition later today, but nothing. But there's no general meetings. No.

Yeah. What are you? Are you over it or no? I mean, the thing with general meetings is like, I don't understand. I don't, I feel like you're wasting their time and they don't know why they're talking to you. No, that's all they do.

They don't do anything. Oh, I guess that's the way they pretend they. That's right. They just like, are there any clowns coming in today? I'm bored. Is there some comic whose hopes we can, you know, kind of get all excited and then just send them back out onto the street? Yeah. Bring that Rachel Feinstein here.

We should clown around and do like a little jack-in-the-box. Do some tricks for me. Yeah. And then we'll have lunch. That sounds fun. tricks for me and then we'll have lunch that sounds fun i've like you know i i said recently i was like you know because there was like they're like do you want us to pack things up with some meetings and i was like really no because i just don't understand what they do it seems silly you know like and uh and you know they were like somebody was like yeah because i kind of came

out a little hostile you know and i'm like i didn't mean it that way it's just i don't understand i just i feel like it's foolishness yeah what's the point of these silly general meetings it's funny speaking of friends talking to friends and stuff and then the way they see your lives i was leaving like a meeting like that and i was on the phone with her and she's like so what do you do you just go in there and she's right like all her questions were reasonable and she's like and then what happens is your sister-in-law i know this was like my friend from high school. And she's like, and then what happens? Yeah.

And it's funny though, because it's like they see you on TV and it seems really exciting. But then sometimes they'll come out. Like my friend that I grew up with came out to see me at the show. And you ever have where they like realize like, oh, you're not important. Like nobody respects you. You know what I mean? Like they see me on TV and then they came to see me at this club. Yeah.

And it was so embarrassing. I hadn't seen this girl since like high school. Yeah. And she, you know, I think she had seen things I'd done on Facebook. So she was like, Rachel's like, you know, she's accomplished some things in her life

and people respect her. I'm on stage and I was trying to like run the special and everybody was like ignoring me. And this guy goes in the middle of my show, just goes, you have a camel toe. he said it loud oh my god and then everybody in the audience was like staring at my crotch yeah and like and i didn't feel that i had a camel toe i feel like that wasn't and i looked down and i was like assessing it and i'm like no i don't i couldn't

think of anything funny to say but just like That's kind of like very sort of specific and personal and fucked up. Yeah, and I didn't have a camel toe. And then this woman goes, no, it's the way the light hits her pants. I thought this. And they were discussing it. While you're on stage? While I was on stage, they broke up into like, yeah, they were kind of discussing and arguing over whether I had a camel toe or not. And I could just see my friend in the audience just looking at me like.

This is your life? Yeah, this is your life. What did she do? What's your friend do? She like works for Walmart. Like she does some sort of, I don't know, thing I want her to understand. It's a very difficult period to, you know,

to be, to do what we do and not have enough to show for our, like regular people do not see it as valid until everybody knows who you are you're right it's weird and now it's even harder because like it's even more specific even when you do a big thing they're like i don't get that channel i'm like where is that like i have a series on television is that a do i have that on our cable i don't know it's fucked like back in the day you had tv shows like you got a fucking tv show now it's like i don't think we get it do we get it yeah no my parents can't watch anything it's just too

overwhelming where did you grow up i grew up in bethesda maryland really by uh by dc yeah did you ever do chip franklin's rooms yeah that sounds familiar you know i think my dad did something does he like book other things besides? I don't know. My dad's a musician. I think he might have done. He was a comic. He actually, there was, I think, the Ramada in Bethesda. He used to have a comedy club. I think I. And he would host the shows.

Maybe he booked other shit. I think I did some. I know I did some hotel in Bethesda years ago. I bombed some strange hotel in Bethesda. I don't remember which one it was, though. But it might have been that. It had to have been that gig. It must have been. It was in Bethesda years ago. Like I bombed some strange hotel in Bethesda. I don't remember which one it was though, but it might have been that. It had to have been that gig. It must have been.

It was in Bethesda. You were like opening for a headliner? Yeah, I don't even remember who it was. I just remember it was. That must have been that room. How long have you been doing it now?

Like 17, 18 years. Oh my God. Like it's so weird because I remember you. I guess actually no, that's not true. I guess like 16 years. I remember you when you were a child. so weird. Cause I remember you. I guess actually no, that's not true. I guess like six, 16 years.

I remember you when you were a child. I know. I started really young. I knew you when you were a kid. I started when I was 20 years old. Yeah. Like I remember seeing you around. Is that right?

Yeah. In New York? Yeah. You were like a contemporary of my exes. Right? You and Mishna kind of started around the same time. Yes. And you guys were doing stuff.

Yeah. I can't, I can't fucking. And you guys were doing stuff? Yeah. I can't fucking believe you've been around that long. Yeah. I never went to college, so I was just there in New York hanging out. You're this loud Jewish girl yelling on stage in different voices. It's disgusting. What do you mean? I just look at old tapes of myself and even newer ones, and I'm just like, what did I ever need to say?

Like, just for the love of God. Yeah. Shut up. Yeah, but you worked out all these, like, good characters and things, and you've been, like, you've always been around. I'm so happy you've been doing it so long. And now, and this is the first special you did? You were always nice to me when I would go to the table. Yeah.

And I'd be terrified at the cellar. And, you know, they used to do this thing that they would go rachel come here and then i'd like lean in you know i i was like right after i got off stage and i thought they were going to give me a compliment you know and you're like opening up your body language to get your compliment yeah they would just you know like at the table they just call me over and i get in real close like yeah beat it yeah i thought like oh they're gonna tell me that i had a good you know like no of course no no it's just like testing you but i remember you would watch them you didn't really participate in much of that you were always very like kindly towards me you know i never understood the dumb games i i hate being a victim

of that shit where they'd say your name and then pretend like they didn't say it yes that thing you know that they did what it was like patrice and Norton. Colin was usually pretty nice, but he didn't stop any of it from happening. Yeah. I was nice to you because I thought that you, I think I was a little frightened of you and I thought you didn't like me. You were frightened of me? Yeah, because you were kind of. I was like a scared little, I was like a scared child.

I know, but you had a lot of swagger. Really? That's how I remember it. i was a slovenly mess i remember i used to wear overalls every right you're all sweaty overalls like this like swarthy girl they used to come around kind of sweaty and just jacked up like looking kind of dirty ish i remember i wore overalls every day and you know dc benny who's the sweetest guy in the world yeah he was so gentle with me but he took me aside one time

because i wore the same overalls and he was like you know you could you could always do something else you know like he was like you mix it up a little yeah and he was so gentle with me that's what it's i still remember because like every know, like all you guys just like were so intimidating to have the smallest exchange was magnified in my head. You know, I think I thought maybe like I was hoping he was going to like hit on me or something. And he just gently told me that I should stop wearing these overalls. And then somebody heckled me and scream like, get off the stage, Super Mario Brothers. And that heckled traumatized me enough to get rid of the overalls when that guy called, Super Mario Brothers. And that heckled traumatized me enough to get rid of the overalls when that guy called me

Super Mario Brothers. You get some good heckles. Camel Toes, Super Mario Brothers? Like, a woman, they're going to call you Super Mario because of your overall? Because of my overalls. But it's kind of funny. It sounds like someone tell would say. What are you? It's funny that you were intimidated by me because I was so dirty.

Why do I think you dated Sherrod? charade and i were roommates for many years that's it but we never dated and in fact it's funny um yeah i mean they he brought over so many girls when we were living together that and they had to walk through my room to get to the bathroom uh new york oh and it was so embarrassing i was having to have these like weird conversations with these just like insecure girls who are like pulling their t-shirts down, you know? And then I felt bad because Sherrod would bring me in like before they hooked up and we'd all have a beer together. Right.

And he'd be like, Rach, come in. And I think he wanted me to be part of like the oiling process. You know what I mean? Yeah. Make them comfortable. Like he's okay. Yeah. And then they trusted him more because of me.

Like, oh, he's got this female roommate. And I'm like, oh, no, you're making a terrible decision right now. Yeah, he's an animal. But him and Tone at the time, Tony Rock and Sherrod, it was like the three of us, we'd do all those bringer shows together. And they would bring over so many girls, and they thought it was hilarious to just kind of terrorize me with how much ass they were getting.

And then they made a rule that I could never bring over any guys. Even if I was in a relationship with the guy, they were just like, nah, no dummy. No? They just thought it was funny. Did you though? Once, but like they terrorized him to a point that it wasn't worth it at all. They just thought it was funny, you know, to just drive me crazy. If I was dating anybody, they just found it hilarious.

Just the idea that me, I'd bring my dumb body out on a date was funny to them. You definitely paid your dues then. Living with Sherrod for years. Yeah, we actually moved together. Again. Like we lived in one place and then we moved to another, you know?

I like him. Yeah, he's a really fun guy. I mean, he's, you know, he's, it's like all those years of my life, like that most people are, you know, in college or whatever. I mean, it was just me, Sherrod and Tony. So they're like my family, you know?

And Sherrod's, when Sherrod would be fucking a girl in his room, often he would have one of his brothers sleep in my room because they would be staying with him. But they'd have to clean out when he was going to bang some girl. So you'd have to just sleep with... I'd often sleep next to his youngest brother.

We called him Dewey. Yeah, Kenny. And so he would just be in the bed next to me. You know, this 19-year-old kid. We'd just like fall asleep next to each other and chat. Oh, my God. What's wrong with us? The place was so crazy crazy we used to just refer

to it as squalor we'd be like i'll meet you back at squalor because the shower was in the kitchen it was just an unacceptable one of those like weird forters with the shower and like yeah with the tub that was hidden yes or was it all right there did it have like a no there was no tub there was only a shower next to the sink and there was was no tub. No. Oh, my God. That's like a real flat, one of those weird tenement buildings. Yeah. Yeah? Where was that?

That was on 75th Street between 1st and 2nd. It's amazing what we used to put up with in New York for living situations. It's crazy. I thought that was cool. I was telling everybody, I'm living in Manhattan.attan like get off my dick meanwhile i was living in squalor yeah no it's they're the worst it's unacceptable and you think and you're paying like what 1500 two thousand dollars for that time i think we were paying something weirdly cheap we got like a rent stable oh really no money i was a nanny during the day and i was nanny you nannied

for many years yeah that's what i did. How many people did you nanny for? Was that like an everyday thing? Yeah, I would do it five days a week. For one family? And do stand up at night. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So you're like part of their family.

I was part of their family and I was really attached to these kids. Also because I wasn't able to keep a job before that. So that was like the first job that I could keep for long periods of time because I really love kids. How do you become a nanny though? Do you have to fill out paperwork? Is there a test? There was a service that I found and I went and I, yeah, I'd done some

babysitting in high school and I used to do this like afterschool program in DC to make extra money when I was a teenager. So I used like a reference for that and I just started taking care of kids there because I like kids a lot. Right after high school, you started taking care of kids? Well, first, first when I moved to New York, I moved when I was 17. Really? Your parents just let you do that? Yeah, they were like, sounds terrific. Get out. Yeah, get out. They are like, aggressively liberal to a point that was like, a little baffling. You know, like, I moved to New York with this guy and his band called Dick Sister. Dick Sister.

I moved with Dick Sister. Yeah. But wait, your dad, you said was a musician? Not a magician. A musician? He was a, yeah, he was a blues, he is a blues musician. What's he play? He plays piano and zydeco accordion.

Really? Mm-hmm. In a band? He goes by the name Hurricane Howie. Hurricane Howie? But he plays in a variety of bands, like around D.C. and stuff. He's amazing. He plays all by ear, piano and accordion harmonica, anything.

So he's a Jewish blues guy? Yeah. He was a civil rights lawyer for many years. Before I was born, he was prosecuting KKK cases and stuff like that in the South. Really? Yeah. And now he teaches civil rights and he plays blues. Yeah. Like he's classic Jewish liberal. Classic, yeah. Activist dude. Yes, totally. How old is that guy? I think my dad's like, I want to say, wait, let me think about this. I think he's like 67 now. So was he part of like the original civil rights movement stuff?

Yeah. Was he like going down there for Freedom Summer down south and marching and things? He, I don't know, like, I know this, that he went, he worked out of the Department of Justice and he prosecuted hate crimes. And so he prosecuted Klan murders, reinforced Brown versus Board of Education laws. He basically, and he prosecuted police officers for cross burnings and murders in the South. And so he would often go down, you know, it was this jewish guy howie and his black partner yeah and they would go to these towns and um and they hated them there and they would go and sit in these restaurants that are supposed to be there say they're integrated but they weren't

really and so they would go sit and just piss everybody off and then they would often stay under like fake names and stuff because you know there were death threats against them for sure and then they would go into these schools like the schools that weren't really uh enforcing brown versus board of education and my dad would said that sometimes they would give them like a child's chair to sit on in the hallway just like humiliate them in these variety of ways because they would come there and they're you know coming they work for the government and so they asked to see certain documents and things and they go sure we got your papers for you. And then they go, here you go. And then they bring out some chair meant for like a kindergartner.

Really? Slapping on his lap. Yeah. So he did that for years. He did that for years. Yeah. And then he retired. And now he's just a blues guy and a teacher.

No. Then he got like, I think around the time I was in seventh grade or so, he ended up, you know, they weren't prosecuting as many KKK cases. Right. And hate crimes. So he was a kkk specialist he didn't just specialize in kkk but hate crimes in general but they weren't they weren't prosecuting they just weren't taking on as many civil rights cases at the time and so and department of justice was like inhibited in a variety of ways also it wasn't as bad as it used to be right and so he ended up getting, and then he had three kids living in Bethesda. And so he ended up getting this job at kind of like a private practice firm, but he hated it. And I remember being really nervous. I was like,

dad can't do that. Like dad's weird. Cause he was strange. He was like a- Like a hippie Jew. Yeah. He had like weird tics. He often like flicks his own head he does a lot you know he's really he's a bizarre he's a head flicker yes he's a head flicker he's just a bizarre but brilliant guy but not anybody that could do small talk or schmooze people or anything like that you know yeah my dad like i think he moved to bethesda because he told me because he liked their used book and record stores sure so he just you know he didn't he just would he's one of those guys he would say he had a bizarre sense of humor he was very you

know he's very odd and i just was like he can't dad can't schmooze people that's insane in the organized world no it's corporate world yeah yeah he wears like an undersized like howlin wolf t-shirt with a stain on it every day. I love this guy. He has like a belly coming out. Yeah. So, and he got laid off. He didn't, and he hated it. And so, you know, and then he was, that was hard because my mom was a social worker full time and then there was three kids.

So, yeah. Your mom was a social worker? Yeah. Is she still? She still is. Yeah. social worker? Yeah. Is she still? She still is. Yeah. These are no, this is noble breeding. You come from good, progressive, caring people. They really are. Who want to change the world. They're really, really kind. And they do. And not, and not just when they're working,

when they're not working at these amazing, insane jobs. My dad, he, he has this, he has like a foundation that helps women get out of situations with where they're trying to leave domestic violence or violent home situations. And they volunteer on like, yeah, they're just constantly doing something. Social workers. Every like liberal presidential campaign. Yeah, they're just always, anything they say, they're actively doing, you know? They're like people like, they're people that do the real work that you know really it you

know helps people yeah in a way like on a day-to-day basis in their way they are servicing you know the people that are in trouble all the time and it's like they're so in my mind there's a lot of people that do that but you never hear about them because they're too fucking busy there's a lot of people that talk about what should be done and what needs to be done but there are people like your parents that are like going to work every day and dealing with that and actually dealing with it yeah i mean and it's funny it's it's like yeah the rest of us were rambling on about our opinions and this should be like so and that should be like so right but yeah no they actually do it and my dad even my dad wrote a book about his days prosecuting, you know?

And, and even when he did his book, he, he had all the proceeds go to some, like, you know, charities of their victims of this kind of stuff. And even that, I was like, oh dad, just like keep half, like, you know what I mean? Like he's on his like book tour, but it's just like, they're like that. Like they're the kind of people, like if they get extra change back at a pay phone they're like oh that's not mine i'll leave it right there where it is really almost to a point where it's like heartbreaking you know yeah i just want to be able to do you know make sure i want to be able to help them how what did your dad grow up in did you know your grandparents were they like you know like um like his parents

were were they like Yorkers? Yes. How did you know that? Yeah. Because there seems to be some sort of chain of history, like those people that kind of made something of themselves. I'm assuming this is a Jewish story in my mind. Yeah. So far, your Jewish story is absolutely correct.

They struggled. They did all right. They put their kid through college. And then he became a decent guy and didn't go the other way. You know, where he just like made a bunch of money. Yeah. I mean, I think his parents, I think he wanted to be a musician and he wanted to play blues. And then his parents said, you'll go to college. Go to college.

Be a lawyer. You'll be a doctor. You'll be a lawyer. And so he was like, okay, well, then I'll do civil rights law because it's something I believe in. And then he found himself in this kind of soul sucking job after civil rights was done. And then he was very depressed. And so he was like, okay, well, then I'll do civil rights law because it's something I believe in. And then he found himself in this kind of soul-sucking job after civil rights was done. And then he was very depressed. And so then. How does he make a living now?

Now he plays blues again. Now he does that full time now. Yeah. So did you grow up in a house full of records? Yes. Like every room. Yes. So many records.

I mean, we would go to this record store. That was my dad and I. That was how we spent our Sundays. Yeah. Long lectures about the importance of one record over and i would be like seven i really didn't understand what he was referring to but oh god i love this guy this is why this is a decent record look at this right here yeah like some record store there was always like a cat like walking around in it my dad was

like trying to explain to me why this record was so much more important and why i needed to respect it you know and i was just like can we get ice cream yeah none of that sunk in huh no now it does now it does much more you know and he got me into all that music and stuff too but um so now I think I think when I was a kid I didn't he was weird and he had a weird sense of humor and like sometimes it would embarrass me and now I realize it completely informed my sense of humor you know but he was just so bizarre like he had this band called the vomitones oh he thought it was hilarious to just call his band the vomitones and he knew it would embarrass us i think he also got some like he got joy out of that right and so the vomitones um they would play what they referred to as a tour which just

consisted of like two gigs in michigan yeah and my my dad called it the Hands Across Uranus Tour. So he would wear this Hands Across Uranus, the vomit tones, like, you know, breakout tour. And then he'd come to pick me up in school and I was like, God, dad's going to be wearing the vomit tone shirt. You know, and now I'm like, that's hysterical. Right.

But at the time I'm like, Jesus, dad, you know. Yeah, yeah. He would howl. They would practice in my basement. My dad was always howling. Yeah. He just liked to howl. And then some of them would moon

after their performances my dad said he didn't moon as much as the others because he said because his ass got too sweaty just to get up from the piano right and your mom just put up with all this yeah i think she was she was definitely like my dad drove her crazy and they're together they're still together though yeah it's a great story. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they have their moments, but they're very, I think they see the world the same way. Yeah. And they admire each other. Yeah.

And I think that's definitely kept their marriage together. So you have a sister, too? No, just two brothers. Two brothers. Two brothers. One's out here? One's out here. Where's the other one?

He's in Maryland. What's he do? He's a social worker like my mom. He's a therapist, and he works in a school in D.C. He went to the Peace Corps. He's like my mom's, my parents' kid, you know? He's like went to the Peace Corps for years, learned to speak Spanish fluently, so now he does work with kids in this school in D.C.

A lot of the kids immigrated here illegally or something like that. So they're dealing with the repercussions of going through various trauma. Oh my God. And so my brother works with those kids and he's a doll. He's just like the loveliest person.

They're both like that. My brothers are like ridiculously just like kind, good men. And you're just this sweaty girl wearing overalls. And I'm just this animal. Trying to do stand-up comedy. Just flailing around, doing these disgusting things, playing at these disgusting places, using foul words. Well, what does your old man think about your comedy?

You know, my dad loves it. He's so supportive. Yeah? Yeah. He was the one who like when I moved to New York with Dick Sister sister and i was like what the fuck was dick sister just this just this band what happened to that guy he dumped me pretty soon after we moved to new york and it was really embarrassing because i'd like said told everybody i'm going to new york and i made like a big thing out of it i was very proud yeah and i was like i'm gonna be a comedian in new york and i'm gonna

move there with dick sister who i was so in love with and then he dumped me pretty soon after we got there and it was kind of awkward because my dad like came back and had to sort of like repack me you know like and take me back home like because and then he sort of undumped me and i didn't have any self-esteem at the time so i was like okay i'm not dumped again i'll come back you know it's really sad it's dark i was young and Yeah, you know, whatever. And then so we lived together. And then I think, I don't know if he redumped me or how I left. I don't remember exactly. I like undumping and redumping.

I've never heard it framed like that. I think he redumped me. I'm undumped and then you're redumped. Yeah, because I can't see me dumping him again because he was all I had there. I'm pretty sure he redumped me. And then I met this woman on the train, on the Greyhound bus, actually. And I was going back and forth to Maryland on the weekends, you know, because I was working a little bit in Maryland on the weekends, and I miss my friends.

And so she was this sweet Bengali lady, and she shared her bagel with me. I was weeping about Dick's sister, and I was really upset. And she's's like you could live with me so i moved in with this bengali family in queens and i live with them how is that you're like you live with charade you live with some bengalis you're doing the same work as your parents in some weird way just oh my mom bringing people together as long as somebody's like dark my mom has no questions whatsoever if they're're beige or darker, she's like, anything you do with them is fantastic. You're bringing people together. Yeah, I mean, Dick's sister was five years older than me. I don't know if that's statutory rape or not, but my mom is not a question in the world.

Oh, really? Was he dark? Dick's sister? Yeah, I think he was half black or something. I can't remember what his um cock that's neck cocktail was but um yeah and then and then the bengalis my mom loved that yeah i'm so weird with uh anything around indian food i'm like that must be great just to have the food and the smell food was awesome all day and actually that's kind of like how she sold living

there to me like when we were on the trip the the bus i remember she was describing our life yeah she was describing our life. She was worried, you know, she felt sad for me because I was this girl weeping over some guy, you know, and my dirty overalls.

And she was like, she was like, you come to live with me. And she kept saying like, we'll take a certain kind of bread. I can't remember what it was called, but she was like, we'll take bread

and we'll take rice. And just, she's called it taking and it seems so pleasing. And she said, in the mornings, we'll take marmalade. And I'm like,

yes, that's all I want. I just want a soothing morning and I want to take marmalade that sounds like that was it i was like i'm done i'll hurl my body over that was wearing a story or somewhere that was in woodhaven queens like way out way way way out in queens so and they did we they had we had lovely mornings i was just part of their family and i would wear i would go to their weddings and parties and I'd wear saris and for how long for a few years yeah a few years when you're like 18 19 I think at that point maybe no maybe 18 yeah I must have been 18 yeah all right so you leave your uh your lefty Jewish parents to go to New York with with Dick

sister Dick sister that goes back and forth you meet a Bengali woman on the bus, and you just move in with them, and you become part of their family. Yeah. You go to weddings. You eat naan bread and whatever. Yes. That's what they have. And when do you start doing comedy?

Then I think I was still living with the Bengalis. No, no. No, I wasn't living with them. I was watching. What were you doing? I was, I got fired from a couple of jobs. I worked at a. So you had no real plan other than to like, this is a good family.

I wanted to be in their family, I think. And I wanted to do. That was your job. I wanted to be Bengali and feel this love of these people. Honestly, I think I was so lost and like depressed. I was just glad that I found like somebody there to keep me company you know and and it was like isolating because i had no when i broke up with the dick sister guy i fell in love with this or not fell in love not a proper use of that term but i i got had this big

crush on the pizza guy on the corner at woodhaven that and in woodhaven where i like the slice guy the slice guy and i thought he was so hot. And I would just go sit in there. Where was he from? For like, I don't know. He was like Italian American. Italian guy? Yeah. Yeah.

And I would just go sit in there for like, when I think about this now, I must have terrified him for like a haunting period of time just because I wanted to be near him because I thought he was hot, you know? Yeah. So I would just go sit in there and like eat a lot of pizza. And look at a guy? And just look at him kind of. Yeah.

Yeah. I think I thought I was being kind of yeah i think i thought i was being kind of demure like pretending to just be innocent maybe he must have known for hours every day like once or twice a lot of time definitely an unstable amount of time i spent in there and i remember getting ready for him like you know just like thinking about him at night and what i was going to wear the next day just hoping he was going to hit on me she never did yeah yeah and uh and everybody in the family you know, the Bengalis all knew about my like non-relationship. Yeah.

With the pizza guy. Yeah. And I would just go in there and sit. Because also it's like, besides my Bengali family, I didn't have any friends my age or anything. And I was just really lonely. So I would go and sit in all these. I spent a lot of time just sitting in restaurants.

Did you do that? Yeah. Like wanting to talk to people and stuff? Well, I have a lot of time just sitting in restaurants. Did you do that? Just wanting to talk to people? I have a similar disposition. I don't know what it is where you want to feel connected or received. You sort of feel, I felt that way for a long time. I didn't have a whole personality. I'd have to go wait to engage with somebody to kind of figure out where I fit in and who I was.

And I used to spend a lot of time doing that in restaurants. I don't know if that's what your trip was. Yeah, yeah. So you would talk to people. All the time. Yeah, yeah. It's a loneliness, but it was almost like, I don't know what I was looking for. But when I look back on it, I don't think I really knew who I was.

How old were you at this time? Well, that was through high school and maybe my early. But I mean, I started doing comedy when I was, you know, 20, 21. By the time I started drinking and got to college, I developed an aggressive demeanor. But I think deep down, like when I was in high school, I used to just sit around the college restaurant where I worked. Just talk to crazy people because I was like, they know something. They got it figured out. I always thought other people had it figured out.

I know what you mean. That's how I felt, too. Like they're real. And then I have to figure out how I'm supposed to do things. I always thought other people had it figured out. I know what you mean. That's how I felt too. Like they're real. And then I have to figure out how I'm supposed to do things. I've never had that many opinions. I always just started figuring out what my opinions were supposed to be based on, you know, in terms of like, not like political or worldview, but just in terms of like how you do, how to live.

Yeah. I know. I like, I felt like I didn't, I didn't know. Like I went to college though, but then you just sort of like you're afforded four years to not know how to live in a context where you're supposed to be learning. You know, I was thinking about that yesterday. I was just standing at my sink washing a cat bowl and I'm like, well, I have my own house. How the fuck did that happen?

Like what? How did like I wasn't designed to know how to do this. I know it's like it's it's funny though. I know exactly what you mean. I always like say that I'll be like, I always feel like I'm just like not like we don't have a real life. No, I'm like, it's funny though. I know exactly what you mean. I always like say that. I'll be like, I always feel like I'm just like not. Like we don't have a real life. No, I'm like, I'm not a woman.

Like how am I able to use that term? You know, like I don't. It's weird, right? I don't like, I guess other people like your sister, like, or I mean your brother, you know, you walk into a life. I'm like, this is like a design. This is how life is supposed to look. Yeah.

I never planned on that shit. Like big house big house family i never even thought about it i remember i dated this guy and i would like hang out with his family in the kitchen and i remember i'd be like can i help i feel like they kind of sniff that out on you and i remember they would give me things to do in the kitchen whenever i asked his sister who was like a real adult yeah if i could help her she would give me the same things that you would give like a kid that was playing pretend in the kitchen you could stir this but then she would give the other ladies like real things to do that would actually be help. Yeah.

They'd be chopping. I would just be like fake stirring nearby. She'd be like, what? I want to go ahead and stir this some more. The simple girls here. Yeah. The lost. The dim ones here.

Yeah. The lost girl wants to feel useful. What the fuck is that? That's so wild because i definitely i definitely felt that but it seemed like you had support and like decent parents who what what were they so self-involved or did that you felt detached from it why did you like it seemed like you would have learned how to be a like a good person well i i loved like kid i've always loved kids and yeah i think they definitely taught me how to be, you know, like kind and trustworthy and all those good qualities.

You just didn't know what you wanted to do. I just didn't. I didn't. Well, also, like I had failed so wildly in like school, like, you know, like a lot of comedians. I'm sure it's not an original tale, but I got, you know, D's and F's and never took my SATs. And and so I was just so insecure about not knowing if I would be able to live. Like you said, like you're surprised. Yeah, function.

You just charm your way through school somehow and you flunk the important classes. Barely. Yeah, graduate. I didn't even take my SATs. I didn't take SATs. I took ACTs. I don't even know if they're real. What is ACT?

What is that? I don't know. It was some West. I grew up in New Mexico and you could take these ACTs. I never took SATs. But there was another one. There's like the second one, the B-level college entry. I believe they were called ACTs, but no one ever knows what they are because everyone took SATs.

I had no idea. I just knew I wanted to be smart and I wanted to know things, but I never had a plan of what I wanted to do for years. And I just walked into like comedy. That seems to cover everything. Yeah. But I didn't have a I never had a plan of what I wanted to do for years and I just locked into like comedy that seems to cover everything yeah but like I didn't have but you seem like you had information early on like I feel like you you know my dad has one of those information guys like he knows right I wanted to be you were like that right I wanted to be your dad I wanted to be like that guy I just want to have a lot of records and be smart and you know know about music and be intellectual somehow well you gave off that vibe that's what you struck me as one of the so i think that's all i wanted to do that you definitely succeeded in it now but i think even then you did well yeah i was in pursuit of some knowledge but

it never had anything to do with making a living like that part was like way this never even came into like i'm gonna be i'm gonna figure it out. I'm going to write some poetry. I'm going to write plays. I'm going to do the stand up thing. It never there was never a sort of like, how do I get, you know, make money to live? Yeah, it was terrifying. I mean, I felt like that so much because my fear was like, well, if I don't make money to live and I can't figure this out because I was getting repeatedly fired and stuff. I was like, I can't nobody's going to help me.

My parents have no money and I don't want to be any strain on them ever like now i just want to be able to help them somehow so it's scary because i just i was just afraid i was gonna you know not be able to pull anything off and then like still to this day i think i was so insecure like at school i don't know how you feel about it but like when i walk into a school even now yeah smell a school yeah i just feel sad because i i just did it was just this place i went and felt like I wasn't smart for so long. I just felt like I wasn't, like I was able, I was funny enough to move through, you know, I had friends or I desperately wanted to be around people.

So I sort of wedged my way into groups of people and be a funny guy. But I don't know that I felt dumb. I just felt like a little detached from it. Yeah, like you were watching it. Yeah, kind of. I don't remember. I was thinking about that recently. I don't remember doing any homework ever.

I don't remember doing it. I got Ds in algebra, chemistry. I failed-ish. They gave me an E, which wasn't even a real grade. We got Es, too. You got Es, too? It's a silly thing They gave me an E, which wasn't even a real grade. We got E's too. You got E's too? It's a silly thing to look at an E. But even in English, I was just like half asleep all the time.

High school was just this completely exhausting, uncomfortable time for me. But the thing was, my parents never, like I could not, they never helped me do homework. I literally don't remember doing any homework. I don't think I did much either. I remember everybody always being upset with me, just like, Rachel, for the love of God. And I felt like I was sort of terrorizing my family with my flailing nonsense. But I don't think there was much structure. And I think kids really need that.

I think that's what I, when I was a nanny i started working with this um autistic child that i got it felt really fell in love with for yeah and for years i think because um and i i felt so i sort of developed like a very structured system for him to try to learn to write you know and uh and i think it was because and why i felt like that was the first job i got and did well at was because i just i probably projected a lot of myself onto him, but like I would get, you know, he had trouble if I would give him like a piece of paper and say, okay, go throw that away. And he would get lost. He would stop between where he was standing in the trash can and he would just move his head back and forth. And I related to that feeling, you know, like I get it. Like I get not being able to make it to that trash can, you know,

and he was just stuck in the middle of the room. So I was like, you're going to make it to that trash can you know and he was just stuck in the middle of the room so i was like you're gonna make it to that trash can and back and then say what you wanted to say afterwards you know and did he he did i mean it was a i mean work with him for many years but we just started doing this thing where it's like okay i press a on the keyboard you press a on the keyboard you know i press b you press b and then and just i just didn't want to give up on him because i felt maybe again i probably projected a lot of myself on him. But it gave you structure as well. But it gave me structure for sure. It's like I learned so much in that job because I learned how to be an adult and how to feel productive.

And it's funny because it's like I was organizing his life, but then I had really bad ADD and all that. So I would leave things all over the house whenever I'd go there. I just sort of shed things, just debit cards, things throughout the city. And I remember the mother had this delicate delicate little pile for me on the couch, like right near the couch. This is your pile of the things you left. So, you know, just pieces of debris that I left around the house. So it's so funny that I'm like structuring her son. And then we would do things like just practice riding the bus across town and back and then also expressing himself. Because he just seemed like he had fascinating thoughts.

I could tell, by the way, you know, his expressions and the things that he was trying to say, but he felt really stuck. So we just kept practicing and practicing. And then he started writing in sentences. I mean, it was so fascinating to start hearing what he was really thinking. Yeah. Wow. Well, I think that's it. I think that sort of pegs it because it sounds like your parents were so supportive in that specific way, which is progressive, that they were almost too permissive.

So you didn't have any real boundaries or discipline around things. You're kind of left to your own devices because they had faith in you. Yeah. And then you just end up like it's not that you're dumb. You just sort of like you end up kind of stuck in a kind of like if you don't have a focus for yourself, you're just going to be like, I never really figured it out. Yeah. I felt very unequipped to be. Yeah.

And I think that and my mom would say that, too. She's like, we realize now like we didn't give you any structure. Like you didn't, because especially with kids that have problems focusing and paying attention, you need it to feel calm inside. So I would go to school and I always had my hair dripping down my back. And so I remember that. I'm like, what, how did that happen? Like my hair was always dripping down my back.

I think I was overwhelmed, leaving, leaving getting to school overwhelmed in my mind you know stuck it was just that same thing with that boy like stuck between the the thing and the trash can you know you have no sort of like you're not you don't have any structure or any real way to to sort of um contain yourself everything's fucking exhausting yeah you're just sort of like there's it's all happening everything's happening at once you can't compartmentalize exactly right and i want to be able to do that and like and learn how to kind of make decisions and so and and i felt like that with the kids and then i think with yeah i think when with through this relationship with him it really helped me to learn how to kind of do that for myself and

and to and feel like i was purposeful and yeah care of something too. And so I remember like we watched this movie with this movie about Helen Keller and there's a scene in it where- Was it the old movie? Yeah, I can't remember what it's called now. Oh, it's a famous movie. It's a famous, famous, famous film. I can't remember the name.

Oh, it was a play too. God damn it. And her teacher, she- Miracle Worker. Miracle Worker, yes. And it's a fascinating film. And there's a scene in the movie where she's trying to get her to sit down and eat her food, right?

Yeah. And sit at the table and just be a part of everybody and do it. And she's flinging everything everywhere and slamming it all over the place. And every time the child slams the food off the table, she slams it back. And it's this very kind of like aggressive scene but she's not going to give up on her she's like no no no you know every time she does something destructive or insane or just says you know that way that a lot of us feel growing up like yeah fuck you anyway i don't give a shit which is how i was at school but i did care and

i wanted to you know be involved and create things i I just didn't know how. So it was sort of sarcastic. And so it's sort of like explosions at the table. And they keep fighting back and forth. And I remember I was sitting with him, the child I was taking care of. And he was typing. And he typed out. And he said, it's funny because it's this violent scene. But there's no violence in it, only love.

And it was just like such a remarkable thing and i i still think about like and that was as he was really learning to talk you know he'd been written off so much but he was brilliant kid yeah yeah you know and so then he and he was right it's like the scene looks very violent right lots of flailing around madness and food flying everywhere but she's really just saying to her like no we're gonna make a structured system for you so that you can be yourself. It was really cool because I still remember how he was like, it was just such insight. Right.

And you had to put that all together yourself. So you're putting that together for you and the kid from this old movie of, you know, a very famous case of attachment the attachment and transcending you know physical uh liabilities and handicaps that's wild because like i never really thought about it before that you know you have perfectly loving parents but because of the way they saw the world they gave you freedom which kind of fucked you a little bit yeah a little too much freedom and and i mean i i feel like every where i land is all because of a lot of it's because of them because but sir i definitely certainly feel like they could you know that's the thing that i didn't get but i mean i got the most important things

because like i remember when i wanted yeah and and when i wanted to um when i thought about trying stand up but i felt you know scared and i was like maybe i thought like maybe i'm gonna move back to dc and just be near my friends because i'm I feel kind of lost here and I told my dad I still remember being on the phone with him and saying like I think I'm gonna go back home and go to community college and just sort of like start over again and be near my friends and he said and I'll never forget the conversation because he said don't do that like you're gonna die inside you said you wanted to be a comedian stay stay in New York and do that don't come home and live some sort of gelatinous existence for a few years how would that help you get to where

you want to go and i think that was probably really hard for him to say because i do think he was you know scared and worried about me being in new york but he wanted you to at least try but he wanted me to really try he was like no no i don't think you should do that yeah well i never really thought about comedy that way for people that have that weird kind of overwhelmed feeling with the world. Like, I don't know how to do things. That comedy, once you get in it, it's very specific. I'm going to go up there at first for four minutes and do this. The structure is very simple.

I'm going to write this shit down and I'm going to go up there and try it and then that's it. like the the structure is very simple i'm gonna write this shit down and i'm gonna go up there and try it and then that's it that's that's the structure yeah that's all of it and then once you get into it you can spread it out like i'm gonna do more time and i got but it's very it's more simple than than most things like you know what's what's your job well i gotta write some shit down and i gotta make the people laugh with it. And that's it. And then you get this built in community of other misfits. So there's this weird acceptance in the family of comedians that everybody's a fucking freak and flawed and weird and living in a different time zone than normal people. So it's like the perfect place for people that don't have structure.

You're right. You know. And also it's like you have to do it. That's the good thing about standup too. It's like, there's no sliding. Yeah. You can't, you have to get up there. And even, even with your spot time, like you can't be rolling in at, you know, 815.

If you're on stage at eight, you're on stage at eight or somebody else's. Right. And there's no way you're going to be accepted into the family if you don't do it. And even if you don't do it well, you know, you get respect, you know, for trying and for, you know, doing something different. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like, and also I think that for me, it made me feel like it was the first thing that made me feel like, oh, well, maybe I am smart because, you know, I'd meet other smart comics or people like you that were more obviously intellectual to me that were running me and my dad. And I always felt like, oh, I have these smart parents, but I'm not, you know, technically smart.

And then I was like, this group of people that I admire, you know, to me, they're some of the comics I know and my dearest friends. I feel like, oh, I'm lucky. I get to hang out with people

with the most smartest and extraordinary minds. And then that made me feel also like, hey, maybe I'm smart. Yeah, they're hilarious. Yeah. It's like no matter all the shit we talk,

it's like we have so an absurd, illegal amount of fun yeah talking to each other right and people and they're they're all unique thinkers and they work shit out on their own yeah you know what i mean like they're smart in a very raw way a lot of us you know we're all figuring shit out yeah and we all have in part and so much about what comedy is, is your point of view. You know, what are you doing? What makes you different? How are you like special?

You know, we don't really think about it. But the guys we know, if you really think about those guys, even like at the at the table and at the cellar, you like Patrice, Norton, Geraldo, rest their souls. The ones who are gone, Colin. They're all painfully unique people with very unique point of view. Yeah, and I remember having those people. Keith. Oh, Keith is one of the funniest people in the entire world. Keith has made me cry laughing.

Keith Robinson. Yeah, he's a real guy. Keith Robinson is hysterical. I mean, it's funny because we were doing this road trip a long time ago, and it was like me and Keith and Kevin Hart on the road. road trip a long time ago and it was like me and keith and kevin hart on the road and uh keith was keith was just teasing me about my dad being a civil rights lawyer you know yeah and he was like yeah i'm gonna he goes i'm gonna kill rachel and i'm gonna have a dad defend me because i'm gonna call him up and i'm gonna say this is the case that's going to make you a star.

That's pretty dark for Keith, huh? Yeah, but it's like, it was funny because he was hysterical. He was like one of the funniest people I ever met at that point in my life. I'm like, this guy has so much fun and he's so funny. But I remember just like talking to this group of people and I'm like, okay, so you don't have to dispose of those parts of yourself to, you know. Oh, yeah, right. You can embrace them. And that's the other thing that's weird that we still get or that you do.

I don't know that I get it as much anymore. But this weird insecurity around people that have what we assume is a normal life. Is that like we live a much more interesting life than a lot of people. But there's still something in the back of our heads like, you know, why don't i have the trappings of what seems like a stable middle class life where actually we you know we're the ones that they should be going like what what is your life like not like who are they to condescend i think it's shallow and it is essentially condescending for them to be like so this weird thing you do it's like yeah i'm out there living a weird ass life yeah yeah doing things that you can never imagine who are you to think that this is like i know exactly what's going on here yeah exactly like yeah they do size it up pretty quick they're pretty sure they're understanding it's funny you're right because like it's weird sometimes uh you know like in different hard

moments of my life or painful times where i'm on stage or on the road or something and afterwards i'll talk to some couple yeah they'll come up to me afterwards and they have these very like cozy lives that sometimes I really want for myself. And they'll be like, you know, thanks so much for making our date night incredible. You just really made our date night. And part of me is just like, like, fuck you. Like, you know, like I want a date night, but it's not because I'm not glad they're there supporting me.

It's because I'm jealous. I realize like I'm, I get kind of jealous. Maybe it's like, I feel partially judged at moments, glad they're there supporting me. It's because I'm jealous. I realize like I'm I get kind of jealous. Maybe it's like I feel partially judged at moments, but we're so jaded. They do. Yeah. But I'm kind of jealous of them. You know, I know. And I appreciate their support.

But I'm also like, I want to find I do want to figure out a way that I can have like that ability, that cozy life. And I want to cozy. I want to feel cozy, you know? Yeah. But and not like cozy as in wealthy. Right. Just cozy, you know?

The same thing you've always been looking for, some sort of family that, you know, that has some structure. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I don't want to talk. I want to talk to my, the same group of people I want to talk to every day. Like, I feel like, well, whatever life I've lived,

it's led me to have the best conversations possible, I feel like, you know? I think you can still do that. Yeah, I hope so. I want a cozy life. So when did you first get on stage? What happened? I went on stage at this bar on the Upper East Side, which closed down now.

And I think I was so nervous that I drank like four Jack and Cokes. And I like will have a few drinks, but I don't drink like that. I never drank that much in my life, you know, but I was just terrified. Usually, you know, I'll have like a beer or like something like that, you know, but I wanted to just escape the building. All day at work, I was like at my nanny job like fantasizing about a fire i always have like a fire fantasy if i have something i don't want to do i'm just like well hopefully the building will go on fire people will die so i won't have to do it yeah so i was just like praying there was gonna be a fire and then i drank more than i'd ever

drank in my life that night and then i got on stage and um i remember like loving it and having a really good time yeah and um i was told afterwards that I was like, not just wildly bombing, but that like, it was a real problem. Like they were trying to get me off stage. I wasn't listening to anyone. You got it in your own world.

Yeah. And the microphone apparently wasn't even pointed at my mouth. It was sort of diagonally across my face pointed North. Oh, you're in outer space. Yeah. So I was, it was,

I think it was a real disaster. But I thought it was, that you're in outer space. Yeah. So I was, it was, I think it was a real disaster. But I thought it was, I was like. That's all that's important. Yeah. Rachel, that you killed. Fuck the truth.

Fuck the truth. You're right. It got you to the next one. Yeah, it got me to the next one. You're right. I was like, I'd like to do that again.

And then they were like, yeah, we gave you the light like four times. I didn't even see the light. Did you start doing, were you always doing characters? think i started telling stories yeah i would do yes i would do like characters and then i or impersonate people in my life and stuff and then i think at first um it was just more like i just do this voice and then i started telling

stories and learning how to be like more honest and more of myself on stage yeah i mean when i look at i think i had this like attitude when i started like that i thought was like cool it's just humiliating to watch an old tape of myself because i'm kind of like sauntering around yeah that's what i was telling you yeah i know it's embarrassing you're right that is what you were telling me shit oh i mean i i hate that i had an off stage too what was i well you get well you because well like from what I can tell and I'm no psychoanalyst but just from my own life is that given that you know we're sort of like these expansive kind of unstructured type of people that come from that like you know you're

gonna lock in on something that gets you through yeah you know what I mean you got to figure out a way to be in order to to not just sort of like drift away you said you got sad you know what i mean you got to figure out a way to be in order to to not just sort of like drift away you said you got sad you know what i mean right yeah so you got it you got it like you got to get some swagger going happens naturally yeah but you didn't have you're just angry yeah that's well that's that that's my version yeah you're just furious furious steaming. Just like smoldering in the corner. Yeah, wearing some sort of like gentle,

like sort of like a liberal t-shirt. Yeah, sure, my nice glasses. Just full of anger and fear and wanting to be liked, but fighting that. I just remember always hearing about your relationships. Like it was always seemed like you were involved in some sort of like a wild, like all your relationships always sounded very wild to me. Yeah.

You know, like out of control. There was always. Yeah. Yeah. Like some kind of like a very like a like a public fight. It was like her him against this woman. And you know what I mean? And there was a one sided public fight in my side.

Usually. Yeah. All the women just run away and be like, oh, God, why does he stop talking about me? Yeah. But you were always very good to everyone. You were always very friendly. Yeah, I was my own problem. I appreciated that because a lot of times when I started, people say fucked up shit, and they're not that warm sometimes.

So I always remember who's warm. Oh, well, I'm glad I did that. I don't know if everyone has that same memory. I'm finding that more people do than i thought which is good yeah you're always warm to me and i and i mean people would when you started you just remember every every awful moment with somebody you know oh right where you feel like something like because you're nervous and they're there who they are and you don't want it to go badly and i'm sure i was very annoying too because i i just i every exchange i had with everybody was so magnified.

It was like I'm talking to Greg Giraldo, you know, so I'm sure I was a fucking pain to deal with, you know. Although Greg was also really, really kind like that. He was a sweet guy. He was helping me to get into the cellar and just doing various like cool things for me. So I guess he saw through my, know whatever my dumb nyc attitude i was walking around but you got into the cellar how many years i mean you did the boston when that was there you did the whole kind of like all the gigs that were available in new york to fucking figure out how to do it and then who'd you start to like when did you get in the cellar

how many years into it were you uh i think it was like five years in or something like that and esty like let you you got referred by a dragon yeah it was like five years in or something like that. And Esty like let you, you got referred by Greg. I think it was, yeah, it was Geraldo. I can't remember who the second comedian was, but Colin was there. And Colin was also just, you know, Colin is like such a gentleman and really sweet to me. And so he watched my set next to Esty, I remember. Yeah. And he said something really nice in front of Esty and he made the point to do that.

And, you know, he was always like the gentleman of everyone. Yeah. Yeah. Just sort of like, yeah, like fatherly gentleman. Yeah. He was just so sweet to me. So him and Greg, I think they talked to her, and she also, obviously, she made her own decision to watch me.

But I think I kind of bombed my way out of there, and then I went back in years later. Oh, really? Yeah. I don't think I... She faded me out. I got that slow fade off the schedule, and then she... Late night spots, and then all got went back in years later so oh really yeah i don't think i i she faded me out i got that slow fade off the schedule and then she late night spots and then all of a sudden no spots and then just ghosted yeah because i think i was i don't think i was really quite ready to be there yet and then i got back in years later oh yeah yeah it's like so weird the weight of that place where you just like she still makes me nervous and she's got actually gotten

nicer i still remember being on the playground like taking care of the kids on thursdays when you would get your spot you know right and i didn't have i would just like i mean i didn't have any ability to not go crazy every thursday morning i'd get up just so anxious am i gonna get a spot am i gonna get a spot and then i would check yeah i would check my messages in the playground and just be like yeah and then if there'd be no message like i would actually call like i just did i not like i needed vocal confidence did i miss something yeah yeah i don't know if i got my messages like i needed her to say no no not this week i like keith used to call me up and he'd be like can you do it for us never again

you know how was it tell to you nice i tell was so cool and he would get me work and yeah he was one of those guys that would bring you on the road never hit on you always be as cool as shit and such a sweetheart yeah he brought you on the road yes a couple times he would have me open for him and then he would uh he i was bartending for a while at Caravis, Cary Caravis' bar. And I remember Atel used to come in there and I'd be so nervous. You know, I'm like, Dave Atel is in the bar. You know, I was like so terrified.

And then he would come over and ask me a few questions like, oh, are you getting up? You know, whatever. And then he would leave like an absurdly large tip on the bar and, you know, drink like half of his shot of Jaeger. You know, we'd have some odd exchange where he didn't make eye contact with me. And I blamed it on myself not knowing, you know, drink like half of his shot of Jaeger, you know? We'd have some odd exchange where he didn't make eye contact with me. And I blamed it on myself not knowing, you know, whatever his social anxiety was. Yeah.

It's hard to. Yeah. And then he would leave like an absurd sum of money every time, you know? And then he would just get me things along the way always, you know, got me work and was really cool to me. So was Todd Berry. He got me a lot of work as well. Oh, yeah?

Did he open for Todd? Yeah. Yeah. It opened for Todd and, yeah, and Billy Burr. Those were all guys that were really nice and didn't. And they took you out? Didn't, yeah. John Heffron, too.

Wow. Yes. So they would all, that's how you sort of started featuring for those guys? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Those guys, Jeff Ross, too, and Keith. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And Marina Franklin and I wouldn't hang out all the time. So she was like- Yeah, she's great. Yeah. She's hilarious. Yeah. So we were the ones that were sort of like, it was like the two of us kind of running

back and forth between the cellar and Boston. And yeah. And then like, well, that's a beautiful story. The nice fellas of comedy. I mean, yeah. There's plenty of animals, but those guys are really good to me. Those are good guys to have good to you yeah that's funny but because it does how about when you started who brought you on the road in the beginning i started in a weird way because

like i did i started actually working as a comic in boston so the shows were you know they were all one-nighters and it would be the opener would do a half hour and then the and it'd be a two-man show and the headliner would do 45 and that would be the show so I sort of started have working with a half hour like I didn't have to do the sort of open error like by the time I got to New York I was almost a headliner like so it was I didn't feature a lot so you just went pretty quickly to it yeah I was I went well I went, well, it wasn't quickly. I mean, it took years. But when I started, when I moved to San Francisco in 92, I was only in New York from, that first time, from 89 to 92.

And Esty wouldn't work me. No one would work me. Really? Nah. I was too angry, too weird. Where were you playing? Boston. Boston.

And the old improv, the original improv. Where was that? I didn't know there was an improv in New York. The original improv is in New York. improv, the original improv. Where was that? I didn't know there was an improv in New York. The original improv is in New York. Oh, right, right. Of course, of course. On 44th, I think. And it was like sort of like on its last legs,

but she would work me. And I would do road shit in Boston. I'd go back every weekend to make money. And then when I moved to San Francisco, I sort of started headlining. So I sort of skipped over that feature thing. Yeah. And but I, you know, I remember I featured for Colin once and it was, you know, it was

a point of contention. Really? Yeah. Because, well, you know, well, I'm sure not anymore. But like when I first got to San Francisco and I i was featuring i you know paid a lot of dues doing pretty strong half hours and 40 minute sets and uh you know i was i was close to being a headliner and then you you know you don't really want to do it but and i know this because there's a karmic return to it i've been handed my ass by middles plenty of times you know if there's a guy

in the middle that's you know that's crushing that's crushing it so you know you're like oh i'm gonna be rough yes and you know and that happened i remember what colin did a week and i you know and it was like and i think part of me went out of my way to sort of like you know crush because you want to crush you want to show off and show them you can do well not just show off but show them your your strong yeah and i always felt shitty about that i've never felt completely comfortable around colin even though he's treated me pretty well you know he put me on tough crowd and stuff and we're okay but i've never had this i've never done a wtf with him or anything really yeah have you asked him yeah it's just never it hasn't happened i'm not yeah yeah i don't know i don't know you know i don't know it's it's okay i'm

good with him but but just speaking to that uh you know i didn't feature a lot uh-huh yeah yeah well you also had a lot of material too i guess i just like it just it was unorthodox if you came up doing those two-man shows for a couple years where you know you were going out on the road at you know in these weird environments and doing a half an hour, you're right out of the gate. You were pretty solid. I mean, I middled a bit, but I started headlining like 93, 92, 93. Did your parents come out and watch you? Yeah, when I'd go to New Mexico.

When I was at, well, there's that whole other time. I guess I'm not really being completely. There was a period there where I was a doorman at the comedy store right after college I came to LA and I got all fucked up and I did do some opening like I went back to Albuquerque and I opened for some people at that club and they would come see that yeah yeah I mean bits of it yeah if I just know I would definitely yeah there was just a I did opening but there was not a lot of middling because of boston because of the way that system worked up there yeah i remember hearing about it a lot when i started like yeah yeah it was the guys yeah you just sort of figured out who was good and then they just came they just came out of there well you worked you were able to work there was all these like one-nighters and that was the road

that's how you worked like you once you got a half hour you'd go get paid and you drive and you'd go do these opening spots i would i always love the crowds there because i would go there my brother was uh my older brother the one that works in advertising i was in at berkeley music school there and he uh and i would go visit him at berkeley and do that um what's the room that was above the chinese restaurant oh yeah the comedy studio yeah and the crowds were so great there. Well, that wasn't there when I was there. Really? No, we had real kind of old school Boston comedy clubs

like Nick's and the Comedy Connection. And Barry Katz had a room when I was in college called Play It Against Sam's. It was in a basement up in Alston, Stitches. Play It Against Sam's is such a ridiculous thing. Well, it was this weird place. It was basically a bar with a movie theater that you could drink in,

and in the basement was the comedy club. Oh, my God. And it was like a real place. Like, I did open mics there when I was in college. But so now, like, you're a big headliner. Thanks. There's such a sadness to that response. Thank you.

But no, but you, like you like you know been at it a long time you paid your dues like you got a lot of respect from uh other comics and and now you've got your first big special out and amy produced it amy schumer yeah we're roommates right now amy and i why why well um i uh went through a breakup so I moved in with her. And then we lived together. And we're enjoying our life together. So I don't think I'm going to move into mid next year. But it seems like both of you could live on your own. I think, yes, we are capable of doing so now.

But no, I mean, I was saying, I was like, because I live with her and her boyfriend. And I was like, I think I'm going to move out in June or whatever. Just stay a few more months. And there's this other place that I was going, I was like, because I live with her and her boyfriend. And I was like, I think I'm going to move out in, you know, June or whatever. And she's like, just stay a few more months, you know. And there's this other place that I was going to go to. And I was like, I think I'm going to go to the other place for a few days and give you guys some space. And she's like, if you go to the other place, then I'll go to the other place and I'll meet you there. Like, it was sweet. Yeah.

So we are having fun right now. It's a fun life. And, you know, she's like, we're never going to be able to do this again. Right. So may as well do it for a little while more. You know, we're both away a lot. And she's away filming a're never going to be able to do this again. Right. So may as well do it for a little while more. We're both away a lot. And she's away filming a movie now for a few months.

But it's nice. I like the Upper West Side where we're living right now. It's just like a peaceful area. It's cool. We just go take a walk around the park. We'll do a workout tape and scream at it. Oh, you do workout tapes together? Yeah, we do these workout tapes. We just kind of yell at them and work out and then go sit and write in the living room.

So you're on the staff on her show? No, no. You just act on her show sometimes? I just do stuff on the show, yeah, sometimes. Yeah. Oh, well, that's sweet. Thank you. Do you open for her ever?

Yeah, sometimes, yeah. I did a few weeks ago in Jacksonville. How's that? Crazy? Big room? Ridiculous. She's playing arenas now. And yeah, it's really fun.

It was me and Mark Norman and Sam Murill, I think, on that show. And yeah, it's crazy. So you're doing it. She brings her whole family with her on the road too, which is really nice.

Her brother is in his band. He opens for her. And he's really good. So it's a nice way to travel it's just all like all these people yeah and you're and you're you're you're your parents proud of you they are very sweet they're very kind you're making a living i mean sometimes it's they'll come out to shows and it's weird to perform in front of them because they're so proud but you know it's just embarrassing like the other day like i was performing in dc and i was the middle

of this joke and i was saying the words like mediocre handjob or something. I made like accidental eye contact with my father. I was just like, oh, God. Damn it. Yeah. Yeah. They're so they're sitting there with their open, like jazzed up faces, you know, but it's lovely. That's our dirty daughter.

Yeah. That's it. Yeah. But it's their support. They're really supportive. Yeah. That's ridiculous. Yeah.

Well, good. Well, I'm glad things are working out. What's the special called? Only whores wear purple. It's called Only're really supportive. Yeah, that's ridiculous. Yeah. Well, good. Well, I'm glad things are working out. What's the special called? Only Whores Wear Purple? It's called Only Whores Wear Purple. And it's on Comedy Central. You can get it on Amazon or the CC app. Sure.

Yeah. I promote that. Oh, cool. Yeah, they're sponsors. Awesome. So get a double dose of promotion. It was great talking to you, Rach. Thank you.

Thank you so much, Mark. That was nice. It was nice to talk to her. I'm glad she's doing well. And check her out at rachel-feinstein.com. Funny woman. Yeah. All right.

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