WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 765 - Dana Carvey

Episode Date: December 4, 2016

As Dana Carvey puts it, he gave a Heisman to fame, essentially putting himself on the sidelines of showbiz for 15 years. Dana and Marc talk about the string of events that happened after SNL and Wayne's World that prompted Dana to reevaluate what's important in life and how he's developed a new perspective on his early years. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series,

FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life when i die here you'll never leave japan alive fx's shogun a new original series streaming february 27th exclusively on disney plus 18 plus subscription required t's and c's apply all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the

fucking ears what the fuckadelics what's happening i am mark maron this is wtf my podcast thanks for tuning in off the, right off the top, I want to thank the amazing people of Chicago for coming out to the Vic for two shows I did on Saturday night. I love Chicago. I wish I could have stayed there longer. It's very weird, very weird to fly someplace for one night and work. It feels like a dream.

I don't know if it really happened. I do know that they were good shows. I know that I love the venue, but it's operating in sort of a hazy space. I'm in it right now, actually, because to travel to Chicago for one night to do two shows, I get up at about 4.35 in the morning here in L.A., fly to Chicago.

I took some time to go to Lou Malnati's and shove about three- of a small deep dish classic Lou pie into my face. And then I went for a sound check at 6 o'clock, did the shows at 7.30 and 10, then went back to the hotel, went to sleep, woke up about 5 in the morning Chicago time and flew back here. Both plane rides, I couldn't really sleep. I got jacked up on coffee, but I was in and out of sleep.

So just the bookends of that and the fact that it happened within 24 hours, I'm not sure that I was really there. Today on the show, I have the amazing Dana Carvey, who I had a great conversation with. I had no idea what to expect. I obviously made assumptions just based on meeting him for five minutes once and watching him on movies and SNL. As I always do, I'll make assumptions. And they were all wrong.

We had a very nice, deep, thoughtful and mr carvey he's back uh at it he's back in the world of entertainment in a big way he's got a special on netflix called straight white male 60 that's streaming now i was excited to talk to him i'm a little under the weather so if you don't mind i have to uh save my delicate voice. I have to save my instrument for tomorrow's shooting of glow. We've only got a couple more weeks. We're heading into the final episode this week of shooting. And it's it's been very exciting to just be an actor and to act like somebody else who is a lot like me. That's the way. He's not. But yeah, I didn't have the whole show hanging on my shoulders

and it was great. It was great to work with other people and it was amazing to work with all these talented women. It was amazing. And there's another week of it. But I can't show up. I can't show up with no voice

because that'll be a very costly sickness. It's fucking everybody's sick. Everyone gets sick at the same time in the whole goddamn country. It's amazing. I'm just on an airplane and I'm like, there's no way I'm not going to. And then it was cold in Chicago and I was excited about it because, as I've said before, I have a lot of warm jackets that I'm just happy I get to wear. So as you know, I get a lot of emails.

I get a lot of emails and I generally respond about 99% of the time to people with recovery questions, with needing a little support to stop the boozing or the drugging or the whatever is destroying their life. If I can help at all, I try to. If I do read their emails, some of them get by me. I like getting emails from the young people of the world. Because I know that when I was a teenager, I had heroes. And I could not access them at all.

But now it just seems like we can all access everybody. And anytime. Anytime you need to talk to anybody. to access them at all but now it just seems like we can all access everybody and anytime anytime you need to talk to anybody if you if you're persistent you can get through to them and probably get a response within a couple weeks i i'm willing to bet that is true the subject line of this email just some shit to say i guess honestly i don't really know why i'm emailing but who cares dear mark or whatever monkey he has hired to skim through his emails for him my name is britain i'm a senior in high school and i found your podcast around the time i was in eighth grade

which was 2012 i guess i just wanted to let you know after all these years of thinking it how much of a weird influence you and your podcast have had on my life before you get anxious and fear that my life has been ruined rest assured that it has been in only a perfectly positive way. Listening to your show every once in a while, when you have a comedian I like on, I feel like I'm adding on a new life into my brain, a new perspective of life. But the podcast and guests are only half of it.

After listening to your stand-up special and watching some interviews of you, I have realized that the thing that draws me to you is your unique point of view you have on the world. Your crazy years in the 80s and 90s and your failure to get on SNL seem to be sets of lenses you wear while viewing life at first glance. That's a pretty good sentence, Britt. Back to the email. You're an intriguing figure to talk to. Okay. I live in Nashville and missed your show, but the more i dwell on it the more i realized that it was probably for my own good as much as i love the mark you see on stage

i always find the genuine mark who sneaks out sometimes during a particularly deep podcast to be the one i cherish the most oh brit you saw that guy he comes out huh man i can't keep that guy in you whether you like it or not, are a special dude and will probably be my emotional tour guide until the day one of your wives kills you. All right. Thanks for the vote of confidence, kid. I'm sure you get at least two of these a week, so you're probably overwhelmed. So I'm sorry for not being as interesting as the email that was read before mine. I just wanted to let you know that everything you do is pretty good. Sincerely, you're honestly around the bottom 50% biggest fan, Britain. Britain, thank you. You're a funny kid. You should maybe look into doing something with

that funny. All right. That's all I'm going to say. And I'm happy I've been a good influence on you. It makes me feel like I've achieved something in my fucking life there's one thing that that i can say is that the help that i give people trying to get off drugs and alcohol because of this show and the help that i give uh kids who might feel out of place or out of uncomfortable in their bodies and their minds and they're in the social environments and just the general good feelings or any sort of support that I don't know I'm doing because I'm sort of self-involved in giving to sensitive people of all sorts who are uncomfortable for any number of reasons. That's what makes me grateful. It ain't the money. It ain't whatever mid-level fame I have. It's actually being able to go through my

emails and always get choked up. I always get choked up. I enjoy crying right now. It's what's happening. It takes colossal balls to cry. I don't know why I said that. I think I was responding to a tweet in my head of somebody who said, quit crying, grow some balls. So there's a little context for that in case you needed it. As my privilege and pleasure right now to have you experience my first conversation ever, really, as you'll hear a lot of these conversations, in general, our first conversations. I've met people, I've chit-chatted with people, but this is the first time,

not unlike a lot of the interviews, where I sat down with a guy we all know and we all love, but I didn't really know, and now I know a little better. This is me and Dana Carvey in the garage. His new Netflix special, Straight White Male 60, is now streaming. So hang out. Hang out with me.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption

actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode

is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Dana. My first thing about living alone here would be at night. Yeah. Being paranoid that someone is breaking in.

Sure. How do you manage that? Do you have a safe room? I mean. The whole house. I have a security system. The fence is okay. I have a plan in my head.

But has the security system ever gone off? Yes. And doesn't that scare the security system ever gone off? Yes. And doesn't that scare the living shit out of you? Yeah, it's a horrible fear. So I never put them on because they go off and then you live with, oh, it was just a- So you've always had that fear? I mean, you've always had the fear of like, even before you were successful, you had this fear that someone was going to come in and-

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One of my earliest standup bits, we're talking in college, was you get into bed, you're in your place alone, and then you like, you'd got, oh fuck, I got to check the closet. Right. This was the joke. Sure.

I go, so you get up and you go, I just need to know. Yeah. But what if you found a guy in there? How awkward is that? I just wanted to know. And the guy's, it was all about surprise for him. Right. I'll just be, I'll let myself out.

Have you ever lost your keys and looked in the refrigerator? Sure. Eventually you go, yes, I'm going for the crisper drawer. Okay, so we all have these. These are stand-up bits from somebody. Did you ever find your keys in the refrigerator? I don't, I might have. As I get older, yeah, as I get older,

I find like things are showing up, like I get halfway into something and then it's like, what happened to that thing? I know. But where do you come from? The reason, it was nice to meet you, and I know you were on SNL, but I don't know a lot about you.

I think I'm- You're a mysterious man. Unintentionally mysterious. But then you disappeared for a while? I did, like 12 years, yeah. Where'd you grow up? Northern California, San Carlos. What's that by? That's near

Palo Alto. It would be in Silicon Valley now. But it was a middle class, white suburb. And you just grew up like a normal kid. What'd your old man do? He was a high school teacher. Really? Yeah. At San Mateo High for 60 years. For 60 years?

For 50. Maybe, all right, let's call it 55. 50, all right. Where Merv Griffin went. Really? Yes. That was the claim to fame? Yeah.

Merv Griffin. Merv Griffin went there. Your father did not know Merv Griffin? No. No. But he knew Arthur Treacher, and that's only for people over 50, folks. Arthur Treacher's fish and chips? Arthur Treacher, okay, that's a good one. What is he? Arthur Treacher's fish and chips? Arthur Treacher.

Okay, that's a good one. What is he? He was the sidekick, the British guy. Right. Yeah. But didn't he have a fish and chips thing later? I guess so, yeah. Jimmy Dean's sausage.

I'll go back to all those 60s icons. No, but yeah, I had five kids all stacked. There were five of you? Five of us, all two years apart, younger sister, three older brothers. You have three older brothers? Three older brothers all stacked, really very tight with all of them. Speak to them. Was that a Catholic thing or just a-

No, no. We were, you know, at fifth, we were Lutheran, but- Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, a bit about it. But we were, I know, I could tell my parents didn't really believe, but felt they should go. But the main thing, I don't know. Lutheran's a pretty diplomatic course. It's not, we're not trying to change anybody.

So we did that. And, you know, the main thing was we were just a very rough and tumble dad and a really intense childhood. Yeah. And what about your mom? Sweet and tiny, artistic, would draw and paint. Yeah. Had a voice like tiny, artistic, would draw and paint. Yeah. Had a voice like this, literally, hi. Very feminine, very, you know, and my dad was just kind of a monster.

What did he teach in high school? Business. Really? Yeah. Just business in high school? High school, shorthand. He taught shorthand, business shorthand. Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, so that was- And you got along with him? No, no, he hated me. He did, and you check him. Was he the only one that he hated? No, he hated Brad. Yeah. So Brad was the second one.

Brad was the guy I based Garth on. Oh, yeah. He was the science kid of the family. Is he still? Yeah, he kind of co-invented a thing called the Video Toaster in the early 90s. He named it the Video Toaster and designed the first part of the time. That was a thing called the Video Toaster in the early 90s. He named it the Video Toaster and designed the first part of the time. That was a big... Editing, home editing with Amiga computers.

Oh, so he got a big payout early on. He did well. Yeah. Yeah, he's the only relative I don't give money to. Okay. But I should. It's such an upending thing that happened to me where you're very tight with your siblings. You survived a sociopath and a sadist.

You really think he was? Oh, yeah. Why didn't he like you? You were about to say. I had two brothers. One thing great about modern society, micromanaging parents, is we know when kids are dyslexic. Yeah. So we don't make them feel stupid. Right.

Mark and Scott were dyslexic. So we don't make them feel stupid right uh mark and scott were dyslexic so they were in the red book yeah you know there was the yellow or maybe the yellow and then you get the green the blue book is the top so basically i could read so i got pretty good grades yeah and so somehow i got this nickname dame the brain yeah and that that was enough for bud so and i check in with even in the last few weeks, I check in with my sister. I go, so he had it out for me, right? I'm not imagining this. I'm 61 years of age.

Oh, no, no, no. He hated you. Yeah, he did. He really resented me and was competitive with me. Really? But he gave beatings to everybody or he ruled, you know, he was hair-trigger temper. Right.

He was very dark. No booze? He could rage hair-trigger temper. Right. It was very dark. No booze? He could rage with coffee or booze. Yeah. Like, here's an example, just one moment. My brother's back from Berkeley, the oldest, sitting across from Bud. They're talking about stuff, and he naively said to my dad, well, that's just a cliche.

They were sort of having a... And he took a big goblet of red wine and wound up like this and threw it right at my brother's head. So it just missed him. Holy shit. Yeah. And then they got into some altercation.

I'm, you know, I'm 60 pounds, you know, so I get away. But then he made us get, so my brother left. We had to get in the car. Yeah. And we're driving down and he's going, flip your brother off, flip your brother off. For some reason, my sister and my other brother and I, so. Oh my God. Anyway, I just, I'm not some reason, my sister and my other brother and I. Yeah. Oh, my God.

I just, I'm not asking stuff. I'm easy to tell about it. It's just that because I did impressions and characters, I never integrated this into my stand-up. Like, people I admire do that. Right. Well, that's interesting that you would still, like, you're telling me that a few weeks ago you asked your sister to confirm

that he had it out for you like it's still it it's something you never quite get over well you you want to you want to check in with your sims and go am i being sort of theatrical after the fact right um oh no and when they they can no no no okay because i don't want to be a martyr right bitter unnecessarily right so they're going no no but you know this was 60s parenting so i i found my way away from him you know what do you think it was like creating characters or doing voices or doing impressions do you find that that evolved out of some sort of like uh detachment from the emotions that were in the house well i think certainly all of us were funny at the time.

I mean, no one really thought I was going to be the comedian, but yeah, we... But did you use it as some way to avoid emotions? Oh, totally. I think for me, the most dime store psychiatric thing I could think is later on, not knowing how to just argue or have conflict, because that would mean a beating, I became a classic sort of passive-aggressive nice guy, avoiding conflict.

And I think that I got some pleasure out of one of the first characters I did, the church lady, because she would just say all this stuff in this left-handed way. Well, I think I have a certain shutdown emotions, in a way, from my, and part of it professionally, when you're on Saturday Night Live and it's all going wrong, and I just learned to live

in that place. Like, okay, I got to be tough right now. You were familiar with it. Yes. And besides doing a whole distance running thing, which was very painful, which I think helped me survive also the high school years. Oh, you were a distance runner? Yeah, on a very intense program, Carlmont High School.

Oh, really? You can look it up. Marine coach, real tough, national champion type level, 410 milers on the team. I ran 427, but we would run 15 miles, 20 miles, repeat quarter miles. I mean, this was during the Frank Shorter, Steve Prefontaine American Revolution. Of running. Of running. And I think that, you know, people who go into distance running are kind of a little messed up.

They want the pain. Yeah. You know, because it gets them outside of that other pain. Do you get to that other place, though? The sort of euphoria of crossing a line? Well, man, I could use it now. I mean, back then, I don't even think we knew how high we were getting. Unbelievable.

But now I could really use it. I get it. I go up Griffith Park. I go there three, four times a week and go right up past the observatory, right to the top, as hard as I can. You do. I do it to get all this anxiety out. Yeah. You know, just that elevates me.

It's not discipline. I go like my pulse 190. I mean, I'm just like, I waste myself on the mountain. Really? Yeah. Well, it's interesting you say that about the kind of like nice guy, passive aggressive guy. Yeah.

I'm trying to remember where I saw you briefly years ago, but like you always struck me as a nice guy but i always like there's something else going on oh yeah no no i mean i'm i'm not a nice guy edge to it absolutely hyper competitive um i politeness is loaded totally totally oh yeah my kids say, you should bring that on stage because they see me being sarcastic and whatever, you know, or cynical. You know, maybe it'll come out in this interview. But, you know, when someone knows me, I don't sit around and do George Bush Sr. Sure. It's all about sarcasm and just complaining. Well, there's guys that are good at that.

I mean, the new stand-up special is mostly straight stand-up, right? Kind of. Are you going to continue this trajectory of being honest with who you are? You know, well, I might. You know, I don't know. I mean, what happens is you get caught up into sort of a brand. I hate that word now, but it's used everywhere every second. Right.

And eventually, everyone in show business becomes a character true of themselves yeah everybody well you're hoping i guess but it can be sort of i mean when i was doing carson me leno had told me that you know when it kind of turned into this other sort of feeling it wasn't just having fun with johnny right sort of um that he would walk down the hall and say, I'll do the voice. They're making fun of me now. It's time to go. Yeah. Like,

but Johnny, as Lorne Michaels would remind me, in 1972, was as cool as anybody around. Sure. Now. Yeah, smoking,

having a cup. Smoking, drinking, babes, whatever. Hanging out. Yeah. It was that last sort of wave

of that old Hollywood. Yeah. Well, I mean, when you started, well, impressions are tricky because, like, we can talk about that more specifically in a minute. But so you're in high school. You got two older brothers, two younger sisters. Oh, no, younger sister, three older brothers.

And they're all still around? Yeah. And they're all doing okay? Yeah. Parents are still around? No, they went to Jesus. Yeah, they did. Yeah.

You sure? Bud died six months ago. Your dad just died? No, they went to Jesus. Yeah, they did. Yeah. You sure? Bud died six months ago. Your dad just died? He made it to 92. Was he cognizant? You know, my wife, who's, long story short, sort of became the one who would visit him the most toward the end and became his caregiver.

That's interesting. I know. Just by weird circumstances. She felt bad for him? Well, he was up in Northern California where we have a house and she was going back and forth to LA because I moved back down here two years ago. So she was there and my sister was

sort of, she was daddy's little girl so she had sort of feelings for Bud but she was in Connecticut so Paula took over. And toward the end he was real fuzzy uh but she said uh we both looked at trump when he first emerged on the scene and we said she goes oh my god it's bud yeah so i know trump right narcissistic bullies my but my father be oh i

oh i was an educator oh jesus christ i he would, the bragging and grandiosity. Yeah. And so, but yeah, he went and I didn't feel anything, to be honest. I, it's a relief. Yeah, I wonder that. I didn't want him to suffer.

Right. You know, I'm not. Sure, but it's weird when the bond is broken, when you don't have that emotional trust of a parent, they don't, you don't feel that connection

that you're supposed to. I know. And when you, when you, I don't, I've heard that connection that you're supposed to i know and when you when you i don't i i've heard a little bit about you and your dad but when i hear someone else talk about when their dad passes and how devastated they are yeah i i don't i i'm sort of like wow what must that be like well he didn't allow there to be that connection like you know it was a fight all the way through no there was Yeah, he wasn't all. He was given up at birth. He was an orphan.

He was knocking around Montana. Chip on his shoulder. Yeah, beaten up by his dad. I mean, he was a wounded, you know, like anyone. So you're able to have some empathy posthumously. I guess. I'm not trying to force you. No, no.

These are big questions. Like, well, why did I not emulate that? And why does someone emulate when they're why do you become that why do victims sometimes emulate their you know their person or abuse did any of your siblings no i can see dribs and drabs in my sure you know you've got the reflexes i mean if you it's weird when you grow up with a bully you have it in there and you got to choose to fight it. But, you know, you do have it. Yeah, I guess so.

Yeah. You wonder. But that's another thing I check with my I go, can I can you guys see any butt in me at all? And they go, no. I go, just feel free to tell me, you know, but I see different personality traits. But that was, you know, when I had children and I think of them in that environment. Yeah.

It would be very tough. Heartbreaking, right? Yeah. I think that, you know, for me, what's helped me in life is every time you give something up, you get something

and vice versa. So what I did get was since the childhood was so like that, just moving out, my Volkswagen Bug and living near the san francisco airport on a frontage road yeah eating tuna pies from safeway for a quarter you know the whole thing i was like wow this is unbelievable the best you're free lift it well

i used to do a joke about my dad i said you know if you're a man at some point you're gonna have that conversation with your dad where you sit down you look him right in the eye and you go is there any way i can avoid becoming you because it's happening and i want out do you have any advice at all that's funny and usually their reaction is like they just go well you know were you healthy enough to ever really sit down with your dad and and oh yeah and have it out with him in a constructive way i don't know if it's constructive because they don't change. But did he acknowledge it? Yes. I mean, he can acknowledge it, but guys like that, they have this weird blind side is that

if they're truly narcissistic, they'll step up and honor whatever you're saying if you get them at the right moment. Go like, yeah, yeah, yeah, but don't change nothing. And you don't even know where it's coming from. It might just then be adapting to that moment. And then it just goes away. It's not like there's going to be, you know, now a life of contrition or some sort of like change in there. My dad's kind of a broken dude.

I'm able to understand that and feel bad for him. But do I get closure? Yeah, I guess. You know, I'm fortunate in that, you know, his life didn't quite work out the way he wanted it to, and he's become very fragile. And there's something that isn't schadenfreude, but that is almost sort of like, eh, he's just a sick guy. And I did okay, despite him.

Yeah. When did that – how old were you when you sort of – you're on the scene? Like, Mark's going to be a famous comedian, and he's going to make a lot of money. Oh, you mean when? How old were you and how old was he? When I started doing it or when I started to become a success? Kind of, it was clear you were going to be successful. So, it's all recently. Like, six, eight years ago?

Yeah, yeah. So, it's this and then the show. Right. And how old was your dad at that point? Well, he's 78, I think now. So what was that like when that happened? Well, there was, like, there's a resistance to it. Yeah.

They do not want to, like, they, I think they see you as an extension of them somehow, even if they've beaten you down. Right. That they have control over. Yeah. So once you start to go against that script where you're clearly having your own life, then you become this weird threat. You know, you're always a threat, life then you become this weird threat you know

you're always a threat but then it becomes a threat that's not in the house right like i wrote a book and i talked about him and it just leveled him like it oh okay like it just sort of like you know he knew that you know i was off reservation and there was no get me back on yeah yeah and that that sort of helped but it's not huh then you're. Then you're dealing with this guy who's afraid of you. Yeah. And I used to do this other joke about how I think all father-son relationships on a certain level are just battles to the death. I suppose. I got in the middle.

It's a long, long story, but I had two childhoods. I had the childhood with them. Then I had 10 years away, but would come home for Christmas from my parents. What do you mean? When? Then I had 10 years away, but would come home for Christmas from my parents. What do you mean, when? Well, I mean, when I got on SNL and got money, my father changed toward me, and then he sort of got my mother in with him,

and they became a dog and pony show for decades to suck every last penny they could out of me. Really? Yeah. And that's when I really understood because my child was real, seeing how they behaved. And that was pretty dark. Well, that's really dark. And I got in their marriage a little bit,

but I learned after that. What do you mean? Well, my mom said she didn't want him to buy a camper. So I'm just coming off Wayne's World and I go, Bud's buying the camper. So for some sick reason, I was going to call Bud and tell him he couldn't buy the camper.

Ridiculous. With your money. Yeah, but he had some money. But basically, it was just the idea of I was the surrogate husband. I was sent to do this. Oh, yeah, right. And that was just all wrong. Clandestinely.

You know, you had to look like you know your mom just gave put out the the the complaint yeah didn't expect it necessarily but knew you would but the thing was when she's 62 i sit with her and go if you want to get out i'll get you out someone will come get your stuff we'll get you a house you'll be you'll be fine no shit i had no idea that not only did she not want out she kind of she kind of dug the way it was right so that's it that's that's that's it yeah that you know you make all these assumptions my mother's the same way they're not together anymore okay but you're like you know she's got a new dude now and i'm like you're right she's like yeah and now they'll complain but then when you really we did an episode of my tv show about this when you really push it they're like they're like, are you all right? She's like, yeah, I know. They'll complain, but then when you really, we did an episode of my TV show about this, when you really push it, they're like,

why are you getting it? As soon as the guy finds out, they're like, why are you getting involved in this? You know what I mean? Right. It's controllable to them. Yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean?

Especially if they're like loudmouth guys that spin around all the time, there's very little emotional effort all you got to do is go like okay sit down you know it's like right they're almost insulated from it in a way well what happened was is that he i i still have my heart in my sleeve for my mom because she was at least a sweet person so he would manipulate oh your your mother seemed very tired if i could just get some money. And then she became a, she had juvenile diabetes at 61.

He became kind of her nurse in terms of keeping track of her blood sugar. So she got this. Because they're terrified of losing them. Well, yeah. And also he knew that she was the key to the money. Really? It was that conscious, you think? Oh, well, I would have to get my siblings online

because every time I think this is way too theatrical, I'm being way over the top. We'd have to get them on the, we'd have to get my siblings online because every time I think this is way too theatrical, I'm being way over the top. We'd have to get them on the, we'd have to have them on it. Conference call. Yeah, and they go, no, that's pretty much right. Seriously. Oh, man. Seriously, it was so bald-faced, but I played into it.

You know, I only went into, started getting therapy in August. Just this last August? Yeah, I was having dinner with Conan. He goes, I think you deserve to be happy. So I've been doing it now. But now, it's kind of sort of sad in a way to realize all these things

six decades in, you know. It's like, okay. But there'll be a lot of choices going forward. I'll try to be healthier about it. Yeah, just mentally and emotionally. You know, just not writing checks to my parents and never really being well they're dead that'd be weird then you get real problems that was day one with the therapist i still people go visit grave sites i just tuck a little 20 right under the right under the thing oh i want to but yeah i i was um a rescuer yeah in a way like when i part of my psyche when i comes

in here um and i realize it's probably it is sort of like i wonder is mark okay and you know i'm okay it's the way i think it's just the way i think oh he lives up here and i hope he's got a new show i don't know it's the way i think and i'm not saying i'm as selfish as anybody else or narcissistic. I know. I get that with some people. I get it with some people, you know, where I get concerned about them. Yeah.

I kind of. Yeah. Even if you don't really know them. Yeah. Like, you're sort of like, I hope he's okay. Yeah. Yeah. I had Al Lubell on this show because of that. Oh, really?

Yeah. Well, yeah. He's not that okay. You know what? Speaking of Al. I was doing a gig and someone came and Al Bell came maybe two years ago. I hadn't seen him in 40 years. Yeah.

Yeah. But talk about it's just all on his sleeve. And, you know, did he talk about his mother and all this stuff? No, it's heavy, dude. Yeah. Oh, I've heard all the stories. Yeah. I didn't know he would go public with all that.

He does it in a one-man show now, I think. Well, now he really owns it. Right. But I don't know who's going to that or what kind of entertainment it really is but but no he really owns it and it's heavy such a sweet wounded guy he is and he was funny dude i mean he was like you said he used to kill oh he killed he used to kill i mean i did one of my first weeks with him and you just sort of like oh my god and he'd do that song forever just killing yeah and you go and then back then it was like i should sing a song every time i saw a comic at one point because sort of

novelty comedians were exploding like howie mandel would have the thing on his head i i i thought i need a nickname and maybe i'll i'll wear some kind of different shirt well when did you start doing it how old are you on my first set i was 20 where'd you do it um telegraph avenue berkeley um you know not a club open mic i went to watch because it was fascinating to me i i'd never done i'd never done theater this is when you were living by the airport yep you so you moved out of your folks house you didn't go to college or you did i did i went to well we all went to community college. Yeah. All the gang, nobody, you know, and then went to San Francisco State.

But it wasn't a comedy club. It was in Berkeley. Yeah, and it was just these comedians going up that weren't famous. Do you remember them? Oh, yeah. Mark Miller came up, Mitch Krug, and then Robin came up. So I literally had a napkin that I'd taken out of my pocket because they said there'll be open mic at 11 o'clock.

And I started writing down, because for my friends, I did a Howard Cosell. Oh, you did impressions. For friends, when they were stoned. And then Robin came up not knowing that this was unique because this was peak energy. And I'd never seen anyone like a Shakespearean actor doing stand-up all over the,

and so I literally put the napkin back in my pocket because I'm thinking, well, maybe there's thousands of them out there. Robbins? Yeah, and I actually interviewed him. But he was not famous yet, right? This is when he was like. No, not famous, but pretty quickly he was down doing, you know, Mork and Mindy or whatever, or he did the prior variety show. So he was just visiting up there when you saw him? No, no, he was down doing, you know, Mork & Mindy or whatever. Or he did the prior variety show. So he was just visiting up there when you saw him?

No, no, he was still there. He was still there. So it was before he came down here. Before he came to the comedy store. Before he came down. So it was like the, what, the late 70s? 76. Yeah.

And then in 77, there were no clubs then. The clubs started being built in 78, 79 on every corner. Right. Guys with hammers. But he got the Laugh-In show, the Laugh-In revival show. Uh-huh. And they came up and saw us in San Francisco, me and these other comics, Bobby Slate and whatever. I look at it this way.

It's like, you know, now with YouTube and everything, I mean, comedians can see other great comics. Yeah. So, like, I don't know. A lot of them are, at least three years ago, they said the young guys are all trying to be Louis or whatever. And so it was an assortment pack back then. Slayton was doing that thing. I was doing- The aggressive, cute racist. Yeah, the cute, the adorable racist.

I was doing just, I had props. I couldn't write anything i couldn't think of anything yeah i got a little guitar right i had no i had jimmy stewart as a waiter saved me every night yeah you know well fuck you jimmy stewart saying fuck you in the 70s was oh it was over i mean it was like dennis miller said everyone's Christ sakes, Carmen, I can write jokes for decades and not top the Stuart man losing his top, you know, the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So people hated me. I didn't even know comedians hated me.

Because they thought you were just a cheater? A trickster. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember when I was, I got a show in New York, the Mickey Rooney show, and I was playing the improv. And I would put music on and do how people danced in high school and i would do these goofy impressions and i had kind of long blonde hair and i was sort of tan and and this guy probably 50 goes they don't like you you were outside of the bar whatever he points over like five comics they can't stand you yeah but kid you get laughs i thought fuck i had no idea they hated

me who was that old guy i don't know know. Uncle Dirty? Who was it? I don't know. He was probably 38. Yeah. But in my imagination, it was just... So you go, you do the thing, you go look at, you see Robin on Telegraph Avenue, and then he started hanging around the zoo. Terrified.

I had an incredible stage fright. I would be... Who else was there? Larry Bubbles Brown. Bubbles came a little later. Pritchard. Pritchard a little later. Sue Murphy.

Barry Sobel. Sobel was around. Sue Murphy. Then eventually in that whole era,ard a little later. Sue Murphy. Barry Sobel. Sobel was around. Sue Murphy. Then eventually in that whole era, God, Rick Reynolds, Sue Murphy, Mark Pitta, Larry. Whitney. Whitney. I knew you wouldn't like it. I just didn't know you wouldn't like it that much.

Remember that line? No. Where he would juggle and he wouldn't get applause? Well, because he was a street performer, wasn't he? Yeah. I got to get him in here. He's in like Texas holdups. Oh, he's a raconteur.

Yeah. A charming raconteur. He would have amazing long, long stories. He was there the first year I was on SNL. Yeah. Like Nora was around and Whitney and they both got on SNL the year before I got on. Yeah.

So suddenly San Francisco was really represented. Nora's from there? Yeah. Yeah, Nora was. The thing that really helped a lot of us was the other cafe. Was that gone by the time you came? Yes. Yeah.

Just gone. Because that was no hard liquor, maybe 80 seats, kind of a place where you could. That was the first time I ever said, maybe I'll be someone else for 45 seconds. Right. You couldn't do it at Rooster Teeth Feathers or what they call the country store. Roosters was around. I played there. With the blender.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, then you would do dick jokes as many as you can. Roosters, like, once they got the sound system, like, it should have been a great room, and it can be, because it's small. It's pretty good now. Yeah, yeah, they got a new sound system, I think. Yeah.

I'm very weird about sound systems. I'm weird about everything. Yeah. I mean, I go into a room, now that I've been doing some clubs with my kids, I'm like, okay, well, this will be rough. Yeah. Or, wow, the monitor's too loud.

Yeah, I got it. Because it's really, if all things work, it makes the job so much easier. Yeah. Like, if the sound system, it's like being neutered. It sounds like it's going through mud, like a filter. And when it's good, if the monitors are right, and you're kind of moving around the stage, and you've got this whole mix you can do,

like you can come here, go there. Sometimes you get out there, and you've got it right on your chin, and it's just not popping. You're just working. Or when you get out there, you always ask the opener, is there a slapback? Yeah, a little bit of slap back. Oh, you mean

when the big room? In a big room. Yeah, slight echo. Yeah. I try to hammer that out on the sound check. Like I'll go with less monitor

than more monitor. Right, because that's the problem. You have to find a sweet spot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't go to sound checks because it's too much energy

at this age. I'm always napping. I nap every day of my life. Well, you think you wouldn't need to. It checks because it's too much energy at this age. I'm always napping. I nap every day of my life. Well, you think you wouldn't need to. It's like it's a mic. It's one mic, but you should. Because of my personality when I first got famous of wanting to be the nice guy, people pleaser, I'd get back to my apartment in New York.

I was out on my feet because everyone I met wanted to have talk. It's like being at your own wedding. Sure. Do you remember how exhausting your wedding was? I don't know if you had a traditional. I had one traditional and one back here in the yard. Torture. Oh, you did?

Okay. Torture is small talk. All right. So the other cafe was less restrictive in that. It wasn't a biker bar. It wasn't hard liquor. It was just drinking drinks. Right.

And that's where a lot of people broke open. So who were the guys on the scene exactly when you were there like doing the other cafe coming into their own well paula well bobcat came in right boston i remember i was at his garage sale at stitches in boston because i was in college and he yeah he was huge there and he was leaving for san francisco he exploded i can't remember if he was maybe 82 or something, but when he came in, he exploded. Paula Poundstone came in and lived with my wife and I.

We had a place on Cabrillo Street. My wife and I rented a house, and it became the Comedy House. And she was from Boston. Yeah, and so we were so charmed by her and thought she was so brilliant. I mean, of the three biggies that opened for me well rosie o'donnell i have a different story but it was rosie it was ellen and it was

paula and there's carol liefer and others but they were in san francisco uh ellen used to open for me paula used to open for me and dana did he come dana g? He was a little bit later. A little bit later. Okay, yeah, yeah. But Poundstone was brilliant. And Robin would come up and we'd play ping pong. And Jeremy Kramer was around. He's around, I think. And he was just so eccentric and really funny. Obviously, I have to say, the first time on immediate late grade, Kevin Meaney was there.

Yeah, he moved from Boston too. A lot ofaney. Yes. Was there. Yeah. He moved from Boston too. A lot of the Boston wave came in there. Yeah. And the scene just exploded. I mean, you could, I didn't have to really travel much. So that was the early 80s? Yeah. I mean, you had Roosters was great.

The Punchline came in. In the late 70s. Playing the Punchline. Cobbs moved around in different locations. So the city had three, there was an improv for a while. Right. I remember that down in the Mason. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And then Roosters. Then you had John Fox booking you up at- In Seattle at the Underground. I'm glad to have you do comedy today and I'll pay you tomorrow. Yeah, yeah. You'd wait two months for your check. Yeah.

But he booked that place and I would play there three times. Seattle Underground? Yeah. It was good. It could be hot except Friday Night Late Show. I had a couple times when people decided to come on stage. Yeah, oh, really? Spontaneously.

Do you hold your ground when they come on? I don't. I'm not a fighter. I go, you got it. Some guys want to fight for the stage. I'm like, what the fuck? Well, I've had people I've diplomatically said, what do you need? Do you need to tell a joke?

Well, that's good. And then it hasn't happened that often. you know some one time at the punchline it was funny i'm on stage and some dude just jumps on stage yeah and i'm like what the fuck like i get really my first response is my space right what's happening yeah and the dude was just cut he wanted to get to the bathroom and you know how that stage is yeah yeah and the bathroom is in the back corner so he just decided was going to make a run for it. Get on stage, cross over to go to the fucking bathroom. Well, there's nice drunks.

You can tell. Usually you can tell. A nice drunk just wandering up. Hey! You got it! Why would someone be hostile at you? What are you doing that's making them upset? I don't know.

It doesn't take much. i was always there i was there to slay the audience to win to please um i you know only later on did i realize that you know i was doing stuff that i wasn't really proud of yeah um but you know you just wanted to survive but you had a guitar you had what so when how what was the first hour good question well between 1980 and 1986 i had this long bizarre route where i was doing stand-up yeah in san francisco and making a living but i was in la i got with buddy mora rollins and joffie yeah and they were managing you they were managing me yeah they they famously told me not to do the church lady because i was coming off gay yeah so yeah but i was only doing two minutes i said i do on stage yeah i'm doing an hour i do two minutes of this you know patronizing but i think um eventually and between

83 and 86 what eventually came in was a bunch of impressions Casey Kasem Jimmy Stewart and I had the church lady became a longer bit at first it was just an attitude it was almost like what Gaffigan does yeah

it was an ulterior it was like his other voice what people are thinking about me that's why I was using how isn't that special

it was like well well well they let little children on stage because I looked so young at the time yeah Meany did that too he had his own version

of the ongoing monologue. A great technique. And also, Churchley was fantastic for hecklers. Yeah. Oh, right. We like to have a little drink in, Mr. Mouth. It just never fails. It never won't get a laugh.

And I think it's just patronizing. It has nothing to do with it. Right. I had that. And disarming. Disarming. I got the chopping broccoli thing. I don't know if I'm proud of it, but it's people still, it never got out of people's heads.

Chopping broccoli? Chopping broccoli. Yeah. It's still insanely like become a thing that I have to do every time. I did it once on SNL, once at Comic Relief. Yeah. I hatched, that happened to be at the improv at that little piano one night. In which improv?

Here. Oh, okay. And then I expanded it up north. So which improv? Here. Oh, okay. And then I expanded it up north. So I'd shot in Brockville. I had Church Lady. I had a Robin Leach impression. Yeah.

Basically, all of this emerged, and I kind of, the clubs exploded, so I finally got pretty adept at doing stand-up because I was doing it so much. Right. Because I had so much stage fright, and I was kind of a loner. I never went to open mics. Yeah. So that forced me to actually learn how to so much. Right. Because I had so much stage fright and I was kind of a loner. I never went to open mics. Yeah. So that forced me to actually learn how to just survive. Right.

Chopped broccoli, basically everything I did the first two, three years on SNL, you know, I had a Bud Friedman impression. That you had honed because of the comedy boom. Yes.

Right. Because the boom, just they wanted bodies. I mean, I was recruited to headline at Laughs Unlimited. And you weren't necessarily, you weren't going to be like, I don't know what this guy's going to do. They're like, this guy does everything. Yeah, but looking back on it, I was terrible.

I mean, it was. Come on. Well, no, but I could charm the audience and do my voices. But I mean, all my bits, I would do a premise and then a joke. Right. I didn't really understand later how you stay inside a topic for a long time right people would tell me talk about yourself i had no idea what they were talking about right but but it seems to me that because of your your need to connect and your

your natural sense up there that you know you took impressions like there's a trick to impressions like there you can you can impersonate somebody perfectly, but an impression has to be elevated somehow. It has to be tweaked. It has to be something. You find some button. And that's the real gift of it. So I think that the way you found it was instead of just doing,

like Rich Little would have a shtick where he would do Carson, that you could riff within them. Yeah. And learn that you could sort of push the character outside of you. That's one thing I discovered at SNL I could do is write in the character. Right. So I would just start doing Johnny Carson for 20 minutes

and then Smigel would be putting stuff together and then adding brilliant stuff himself. Yeah. But I think looking back on it, I was a sketch player who found himself as a stand-up. Uh-huh. And so I feel like I became kind of a hybrid so that as a stand-up to survive, you must kill. Yeah.

Because there's these brilliant people around you that want your job. Yeah. And you must kill. But my instincts really, I was a sketch player, so my stand-up reflected that. But you didn't do sketch then, did you? Well, I kind of did one-man sketch. I mean, I would do. I think you're diminishing your stature as a stand-up.

Well, thank you, Mark. I don't think stand-up has to be any particular way. No. But I understand. I just probably have a little bit of a complex of. And I just probably have a little bit of a complex of... Yeah, because guys like me back then who were doing what we considered to be honest, real shit, or whatever, just doing the jokes, would look at guys like you going, yeah, he's a fucking Bodak.

You know, he's just a... Yeah, yeah. Yeah, look at him, like a Peafy Barnum in it. Yeah. He's like, anything goes. Exactly. No shame, this guy. Exactly.

So there's a perfect example. Now he's wearing a hat. Yeah, a hat. Oh, at one point, I had a little sunglass. No shame, this guy. Exactly. So there's a perfect example. Now he's wearing a hat. Yeah, I had. Oh, at one point, I had a little sunglase. I'm playing a character. I get it. It's all so cute. I had a trunk of props.

Did you? I would hold up Gumby and just go, stretch the legs. Yes. I would do anything. I did an eight-minute bit, which I still did in the special, was because in 83, comedians fell in love with the movie Scarface. Right.

So a lot of comedians would go, hey, I'm Scarface. I'm going to snort a cow. Yeah. And I, for some reason, did him at Thanksgiving dinner and it became at least a five minute bit. Uh-huh. Yeah. There you go.

That's the other thing about doing characters. You can fill some time. Absolutely. Paso sui portados. Paso sui port time absolutely and it always kills and i do it in the new special except i extended it yeah sure you gotta fill that time out i still here's the way i look at it yeah because i want to hear how you look at it but in high school when you're making your friends laugh you don't do clever bits usually it's redundantly making

fun of the water polo coach winding down one concept especially if they're stone and you're not and then in stand-up it gets so organized and written but ultimately the things you know i grew up with kaufman yeah thank you very much that rhythm of that character uh monty python yeah spam and spam and all these and and Steve Martin. That's what you gravitated towards. Musicality and rhythms that would be repeated. I think it's, now I look back, it's kind of old fashioned.

Like here comes a church saying, guess what? This is their catchphrase and here it comes. Well, isn't that spam? It seems so corny. But it does help people communicate with each other. No, absolutely. Peer groups have their own catchphrases yeah absolutely and i and i don't think like i don't think it was dubious or devious what you were doing this was how you performed and there was a lot of

vulnerability to it and there was you know no one ever when you did something like there are impressions it's like i don't know who the fuck rich little is i don't you know i don't know daryl hammond that well i know enough yeah uh you know i didn't i didn't know phil but he seems a little more like you but like you know i i always see dana carvey you know i don't say like well that guy's afraid to be himself i'm better at it now i would say that i you know like if you were unknown and i did a perfect impression of you you would be my new character right but like if you were unknown and I did a perfect impression of you, you would be my new character. Right.

But then if you got famous, you'd be my new impression. So Garth was just my brother Brad, but that was a character. Yeah. And Hans and Franz was just, I got bored with the character. At first we talked like Arnold, here we are Hans and Franz,

but by the end I was just doing this. And the reason was, is because they would put this enamel between my teeth to do the gap yeah and I didn't want it to smear yeah so I would be right before I'd be checking myself and I'd see that I had this little grin and that's the reason he started talking like this but right someone who's that pleased with himself that's just funny right the rhythm of that we like oh look I'm buttocks off love it so that just still evolved out of adapting to makeup yes because of the enamel on the teeth the black enamel you look in the mirror and you go that's who i am yeah oh it's incredibly powerful is it is it relieving

um well i you know i was listening to um michael shannon the interview oh yeah yeah it was interesting about anthony hopkins because yeah leaping, I end up in a movie with Anthony Hopkins. Yeah. So Anthony Hopkins hated his father, too. So we bonded so greatly that on the last day of shooting, he very shyly said, would you like to come in my trailer and have lunch? Someone had booked entertainment tonight or something during my lunch hour. And I said, I got to go. I got to have lunch with Anthony Hopkins.

So the woman started crying. We can't wait. So I told Anthony, I can't. And then after the thing wrapped, that was the last day of shooting. The assistant goes, you know, he's never invited anyone into his trailer. It's one of those things. But he and I bonded over the father thing and impressions. Like he would do James Cagney or he would do Hannibal Lecter and I would do Garth.

He would do Clark Cable and I'd do Jimmy Stewart. And what he said to me was he would read the script 200 times but not think of anything. He had a Polaroid picture back in the day of him in character. Yeah. And he'd be talking like this. They'd yell, speed, whatever. And he would just look at it, bend over, and go like he's sucking it in. And then he says it was all self-hypnosis between action and cut.

To get into character. Yeah. He never thought about anything. He read the script 200 times, and then he just would look, be the character. Yeah, he never thought about anything. He read the script 200 times and then he just would look, be the character, said he did Howard's end, he looked in the mirror, saw the mustache and said,

oh, I'm that guy. Right. And then you lock into it. I think that's the trickiest thing, even when I act or when I, I mean, I can do some impressions for maybe if I'm like just impulsively in it, but to repeat them and say like,

this is part of my act, I can't do it. I can only do it if I'm feeling something. Because like what it takes for me to get into it is somehow intimidating to me because I feel like, well, I can't, I don't want to disappear for too long. You're afraid you might not come back? Well, I just, it's just weird that like,

because like the enemy of doing that is any sort of self-consciousness. Well, I was listening to the other show and you were talking about how you played in Nashville or Tennessee. Yeah. I really related to it as a stand-up that voice was quiet the entire set. Yeah. Which is really unusual. It is.

And very hard to do, but it's such a wonderful place to be. When you connect. There's no second voice. Right. And you're just in the moment. Right. And that's all I'm trying to get to all the time. Yeah.

And that's why the special, when I look at it, I can't look at it objectively. I just see someone who's in his head trying way too hard. Come on. No, I do. Can you look at anything you've done with the... I probably have walked off maybe 10 times where I... Like when I did El Cantore or the Pepper Boy sketch with Sandler,

I go, okay, that's a 10. But mostly, but I'm not self-indulgent about it. I understand people would enjoy what I do. Yeah. But I do have that still. It hasn't gone away. I don't have any sense that, I was on SNL, I got an Emmy,

I was on Rolling Stone and it completely disappears yeah I'm doing it as if I'm unknown I kind of I wish I could get out of this a little bit because it takes the fun out of all this stuff I went on James Corden the other night and I told him before the show and then now I'm re-legislating my ad libs and going oh why didn't I do that? Oh, yeah, yeah. So do you have any of that? No, I used to have more.

Like sometimes I don't watch what I do because I just... Oh, I never watch. Yeah. Like I'll listen to this in maybe a year. Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, I mean, I know that it's usually for me,

like I know exactly where I'm unsure of myself when I watch myself. And I know where I could have done something a little differently. But a lot of times when I used to do Conan, a lot of the bits that I would do on panel were not finished. And they became finished. And I just had to live with that. Like they were funny enough for panel. But like as a stand-up, a lot of them continue to evolve.

But the thing I don't like seeing is i used to get i used to think i was hiding my anxiety or my nervousness or defensiveness but i would see it in my eyes so for years there was this thing like am i going to have the look or am i not totally i'm you're i totally relate and i and i know the look and i know that was what was holding me back and i knew there was nothing i could really do to make it go away maybe it would maybe it wouldn't right and then there were times where like there were just these miracles where i do like on my first letterman like it was almost like i was channeling the history of comedy i i chose not to have a mic i used my hands properly i had a nice suit on i was delivering jokes perfectly but it was not me so then it'd be you know it was me but it was like

not you know when you see me in a five minute set you don't walk away from it going like i get that guy you know like i need more space and time yeah but it took a while for me just to be like well fuck it i this is who i am and when i do panel i do like with conan he's always sort of like are you all right and i'm like i don't know you know i'm that guy and that's okay no no it's totally fine as long as it doesn't sabotage i mean as long as you can get some joy out of this this career we've chosen right well now that's starting to happen you know right really right in right on time for the president to outlaw media i think i think it's so fabulous mark you know we're terrific you know just this i mean after he won he just went so comatose. He was just almost on 60 Minutes.

What are we going to do? I don't want to hurt them. I don't want to hurt these people. I mean, I just, when I do that, I just, I find it interesting. I'm not trying to be totally accurate. It's like a character. Right. And it's an interesting, weird voice.

It's kind of strange that now I guess I will address it. Yeah. You're're gonna do it well i'll you know every week there's a little something that i look at like when i saw him and obama yeah i just thought you know part of me was um him saying please don't let go i mean he was so vulnerable in that meeting right yeah yeah well i won meeting finding him we'll stay right here no worry we can shake as long as you want please don't let go

I'm so scared I don't know so those are I do these little I don't really think them through much boom that's just funny

when you watch other impressionists do you kind of go like alright I mean like when you like oh my god I see Kevin Pollack

oh he was there wasn't he when you were there in San Francisco of course yeah he was a, wasn't he, when you were there in San Francisco? Of course, yeah. He was a mainstay. I mean, I was from San Carlos. He was from San Jose, 20 miles.

And we were always the Peninsula Boys. But did you guys have conversations? Like, are you doing Peter Falk tonight? I think we kind of navigated naturally. You didn't do a Nicholson, though, did you? I did, but not near as good as his. You know, like the walk-in of the day yeah you know you had to do it yeah you know yeah now out of board did you pull your hair back i didn't do that okay no i didn't do the hair back no i never did that my big one was jimmy stewart i wonder what else well i had robin leach

i'm yelling and i don't know why yeah yeah you know um so i never yeah i never consider myself a pure impressionist right you know like rich little was right is well yeah but i do them when i know it's a little more like that i think like he was very deliberate about you know this is you know staying like you know this is the impression of this guy you know and this is the impression of this guy right yeah his p and this is the impression of this guy, right? Yeah, his Peter Falk was ridiculous. I mean, he would work on them to the point where they're ridiculous. Like his Walken is ridiculous. Yeah.

It's like Frank Caliendo's Morgan Freeman is now officially ridiculous. Yeah. And I don't know if I... In a good way. Ridiculous in a way like seriously? Yeah. Really? Come on.

I don't know if I ever got anyone that accurate. I mean, my Carson was kind of accurate. A lot of them were abstract. Obviously, George Bush Sr. was a complete abstraction because there was nothing there that we thought to do. Right. So we had to invent this character, we meaning me and Jim Downey and Senator Al Franken. Yeah. So.

But you have to focus in on the repeats. Yeah. These weird character moments. Yes. That are repeatable. And there's something really amazing about that, that you have these guys that you don't, you look at them and you, right,

like George Bush Sr. Yeah. Where you're like, this guy's got nothing. He's flat. Oh, nothing. But there's a repetition of something. There's a shrillness that you found that becomes the funny thing.

And the lazy syntax. I mean, the key to that was just one night without trying to pull my hair out, trying to do it. It took a year. And just that thing out there as I'm wagging and that whole area. And then I remember Whitney coming in because then you know when you're on SNL, it's the bully pulpit.

And then the New York Times was sort of observing the same things, but not giving me credit, according to Whitney. Yeah. They're doing you now. They ripped you off. Well, how did you get SNL? Oh, my God. What a story. I auditioned in San Francisco.

Al Franken saw me, didn't get it. I auditioned at the comedy store. It was probably 84. Franken saw you? Yeah. But I was probably a little nervous. I had that look and I wasn't, you know. He was funny, man.

Yeah, he's a great writer. Really smart. He was great to do political comedy with. And Jim Downey, who's more of kind of a conservative, but brilliant. He was like the head writer forever, wasn't he? He was.

Yeah, just fantastic. So you didn't get it in San Fran. Who else was on the audition? Probably Slayton. Probably Pollock. But when I did one night at the comedy store, I can't remember if it was 84, where it was five minutes each,

like 20 of us. Yeah. And no MC on stage. Yeah. You brought each other up or offstage? Offstage mic. And this sounds like a bit, but I followed Kennison. Yeah.

In his prime. So... What year? Oh, God, was it 84? Four? Four, five? Yeah, yeah. Kennison exploding.

That first record. And I followed him. Well, isn't that, yeah. Kennison exploding. That first record, yeah. And I followed him. Well, isn't that, you know, just death. And then the show comes around, the year Lovitz and Nora were on. Who was in the room that night watching? Just lieutenants. Lorne wasn't there. Right.

But it must have been producers and stuff, but that was it. Yeah. And I was just terribly depressed. So you're bummed out. For months. Yeah. Really. And so it came around again in it. Yeah. And I was just terribly depressed. So you're bummed out. For months. Yeah. Really. And so it came around again in 86.

Yeah. And I thought, I bombed so many times auditioning at the improv and so many times, playing to dead silence at 8.30 on a Wednesday. Norman Lear thought it was good. Yeah. And I was like,

fuck. You know, you come out of the box with what would levitate the room in Sacramento. Right. Your best joke with full commitment and swing and a miss. Yeah. Oh, you just feel it.

That feeling when it doesn't land. Oh, it's just the most awkward. It's like someone just cut something off of you. Yeah. So I didn't want to do that. So there was a club called Igby's. Were you around for that? Yeah.

It was on the west side. 100 seat, real intimate. Yeah. So I said, okay, let me see if I can audition there. Lorne Michaels was in town. I had gotten with Brad Gray and Bernie Brillstein. You left Rollins and Jaffe. Yeah.

So then I said, I want to do it at Igby's. But Rosie O'Donnell, who I'd never met, was headlining that week. Yeah. And Jan Smith asked her, well, he's going to bring in Lorne Michaels. So Rosie said, yeah. So I met Rosie right before I went on. We flipped a coin. I went on first.

And she was at the peak of her stand-up thing too, right? Yeah, and she was just, she seemed like Ethel Merman. She seemed like a tough, really funny, mature woman. I guess she was like 26. But she never, you know, she was a powerful personality. And she, so I went on first. It scared out of my mind. Really just, this is it. Lorneels has come to see me yeah and he he walks i see him yeah then i see the head of nbc

brendan tartikoff yeah and then i see share yeah and then and now ladies and gentlemen dana garney but i got i did a c minus but I was in really good shape for performing and the audience was not an industry crowd yeah so I think that really essentially got me the show

so how soon after that are you going to New York? this is in July and he says come out to Long Island I can do the voice if you want me to please

Dana you come out to Long Island we hang out you know this and that so I didn't at his house yeah so I just move in

with Lorne Michaels no for like three weeks really yeah I've never heard that one before yeah

I've never heard anyone have that experience that they auditioned and you have to live with Lorne Michaels I had no idea so I'm up there with Lorne

Chevy rented a house in the neighborhood Whitney was around a lot because he was sort of kind of the head writer at that time. And Lauren. And we just hung out. You lived at his house? Yeah. We just hung out.

And that was when, you know, the whole, which I talked about before, but McCartney came over with Linda five nights in a row and came. Because they lived down the street or? They had a rent in a house in Long Island that summer. And they would come over, put their kids to bed, and we'd all smoke marijuana together and laugh. Yeah, and play? Did you play guitars? No, but this one is kind of interesting.

You might find this interesting. So when I met him, it's not a joke. I had to answer the door. You know, Lord, you get the door. And he did say, your face is going a bit funny. Because I'd never even been on TV. i'm not anybody yeah but he was um i had the presence of mind to not ask him anything to do with the beatles i brought up an obscure song called tug of war and i asked him about the chorus yeah one day we'll stand up on top of the mountain or flag

unfurled and he just lit up after that oh really and so that was on a wings album that was um no that was paul mccartney george martin 1980 okay i the thing that's in my so-called rotation is the the the original mccartney album with maybe i'm amazed on it which he did with a four track in the basement is that ram no no it's just called McCartney. Oh, okay. He's got the little baby on the front. Oh, yeah, yeah, sure, sure. He did all the instruments.

It's so rudimentary, but there's something really cool about it. I don't know if I even have that one. You should try. It's only like 28 minutes long. No, I should get it. He has pieces of songs in a way. Yeah, yeah. But they're just-

I felt that with Wildlife, too, a little bit. Yeah. They're just great. I'm trying to figure it out. Yeah. Without the other guy, the angry guy. How do I just be the nice guy? with wildlife too a little bit yeah they're just great so i'm trying to figure it out yeah without the other guy the angry guy was it how do i just be the nice guy well it's hard because you know what happened to john and it's horrible and and what they did together i mean i'm a fanatic about

the beatles i don't know about you but oh yeah how how can you not be yeah i mean when i last when they last did the digital remastering, I listened all the way through again in my car. And I did land on Revolver. I went, hmm, yeah. Because when they were in close harmony, I knew that they loved each other. Because kind of the way Mike and I love each other, we also fought like brothers. Because you're John Lennon. You write Dear Prudence.

Yeah. You got this chirpy guy in there. Comes up with a bass line from the heavens yeah and then is playing the drums and does this great break because ringo was on strike yeah you know and then you think about the harmony that they would do together i got married to um love is real oh when'd you get married 1983 oh so she, so she was on for the whole ride. You freaking out for months after you blew your auditions? Oh, yeah. I mean, that is one thing that is great, is that I could call my wife on the way home from here and go,

I talked to the business manager. Mark and I had a talk. Special's not that good. All the money is gone. Yeah. And she would, okay. Again. Again, all the money's gone.

All the money's gone. But yeah, it's, you know, that's something you get for being in someone who really sees you. I remember when I first started, people would make a fuss out of me on the street. My wife goes, wow, so that's what famous people are, you know? You know one. In other words, we're all pathetically normal. And it's only this crazy technology that is exploding all of us into the, you know. So you lived with Lorne for three weeks.

Yes. And nervous, scared out of my mind. Is he just walking around in his bathrobe? He was just very intimidating, but charming. You know, we would take long walks, five mile walks. On the beach?

Just around Long Island and sort of not really the beach as much. And what was he doing? What was he talking to you about? Lorne can just talk. I mean, Lorne is, Lorne, you know, I figured it out later. Just he has this way

of taking gigantic ideas like any really smart person and distilling them like i was last time i did snl um in may they asked me to stay i was doing i was shot the special yeah and lauren you know okay what do you want me to do lauren you know yeah i'm here so i did and then usually i would leave the party um at 3 30 or 4 and lauren was always there a.m a.m and that that night because of the time of life i'm in and the people who've died i just and not to be morose, Lorne's fantastic. I'm fine. I said, I'm going to stay all night with Lorne Michaels. And he just had a brilliant, you know, which I was struggling about how to describe Paul McCartney. He goes, oh, he's Mozart.

You know, it was just like very, very quick. Some of Lorne's favorites are like, one thing he said to me was kind of brilliant because of uh we both have millennial sons and we're always wondering you know he goes there's no men anymore you know and i and i go what do you mean he goes he goes you and i were we were raised in the wilderness and then we became civilized we raised our children uh civilized and now we want them to go in the wilderness it was like man that's brilliant yeah as a way to analyze all this you know micromanagement we gave them everything didn't ever want them to be sad yeah which you know i don't know for better or for worse right i don't know are we happy uh i i if i can feel like not if i feel okay and not insecure if i'm not panicking i'm oh i'm happy ish

well or angry but anger is like dissipated a little bit like i feel like i'm i'm finally myself which is relieving yeah i don't know i feel like as a public person and as a private person yeah you're comfortable yeah because it's kind of the same. That was always my goal. Yeah. Is to get everything synced up. Well, see, I think that's great. And I think there's a lot of energy that is dissipated when you're a stand-up where sometimes I would want to say a really strong opinion.

Right. Or say exactly what I feel. Yeah. And I can't. It seems like it would make stand-up easier if you could just say anything you wanted there was no censorship um but for me it's a good problem to have that like when i shot the special it felt like the audience they were older and they'd all just watch my best of sketches from snl right and maybe just saw a wayne's world

matinee yeah and then i'm to come out and talk about racism. You know what I mean? It's not just so it's. Well, it's good. It's a good problem to have. Right. It is interesting, though, when you talk about branding and about audience expectation, that when you do tweak it a little bit, you know, you might get a little resistance. Like, no, I kind of wish you would have just done this or just done that.

Well, and also willing to disappoint them. I was going to call the special Springsteen in tights. Yeah. Because it'd be like if Springsteen came out and did a ballet dance. Yeah. Right. What? I mean, the boss is the boss is the boss.

Right. So I have- Do you know him? I've met him, but I don't know him. Yeah. You know, he's a freak. I mean, he's- Anybody could do a four hour set physically.

Hell of a performer. Yeah. Yeah. He's just up there. He's like one of those. He's an earnest dude. There's, you know, I don't stack them in any particular order, but as far as like the guy who writes the songs and sings the songs, there's Neil.

Yeah. There's Dylan. Yeah. There's Springsteen. Yeah. And then there's a lot of others too. Right. Jackson Brown.

I mean, from my era. Sure. But those guys. Paul McCartney. But yeah, they're freaks. you know good way in a good way right just yeah they're anomalies because they they are singular and they're huge yes and they deliver if i could almost do anything it would be able to sit down at a piano beautifully, and sing an original tune. Yeah. You can't?

Well, I play around on a little piano. I fiddle with the guitar and the drums. Yeah. That's, for me, for anxiety. I have them in my townhome that I have down here. Yeah. And I go to them all the time. Yeah.

Several times a day. But I'm so rudimentary. Yeah, I do that with guitar. So you say, that's really a trick i mean that's that you feel authentic on stage and off this is very evolved well that was i didn't know that that was the journey but that was the journey is that like i think when i've talked about it before that i was on a sort of my search was to to to sort of be myself and kind of be in me you know without doubting it or or or trying to you know hide it with anger and all this other stuff so if i'm going to speak

my mind it's tricky because if i you know i have to make sure that i'm running it through my heart and not my uh you know just my defensiveness. It gets complicated. Yeah, it's just all these human emotions. It's kind of like if your foot hurts, it's telling you something. We have this whole cadre of emotions. The thing I was going to come back to, which I think I can get in touch with, is just gratitude and the fact of this part of my life that I was able to make a living on this planet doing this. Right.

Because when I meet young comedians and performers, I run into them all the time. Sure. And they're still not sure this is how they're going to live. Yeah. They're going to make a living. There's no tell how you can't bank on it. No. So they would, where you and I might look at people up on the food chain naturally, because normal, you know, Chris Rock got 40 million for a special. Suddenly mine doesn't look so good. But you just get, you go back to the beginning and in this very quickly changing world that we have no idea what's going to happen.

Right. So that's going to be the next thing. And can I just go away? Can I just disappear now? How was it for you when you disappeared? We need you more. You know, I always did a Heisman with fame in a way. I'm in therapy to figure out why I would just walk away like that.

But because of my childhood, I did want to be there for the kids. But here's what happened, which is an interesting part of my journey that I've never really talked about, which I, just because there's never been time. Yeah. The thing about, what I like about people like you is it would appear as if you were never in a shitty movie or television show that was paying you a lot of money and you suffered through it. It feels like you did your show. I was never given that opportunity. To be tortured.

I got it. Yeah. And so on SNL, you're kind of in charge of your stuff or you're working with like-minded people. Wayne's World was kind of the same. Then I come off, I do a movie called Clean Slate. Right. $3 million. I waited a year after Wayne's World, but, you know, being a chameleon or a variety performer,

it's like, well, what are we going to do with him? Is he going to play the schlubby dad? Yeah. He doesn't look too schlubby. Yeah. You know, so I understand why it was difficult to step away but i peaked on the show i just couldn't after ross perot and bush and wayne's world yeah and i was getting close to 40 so it was sort of exactly what you're talking about i was able to be poisoned by this

money which wasn't for myself but was was a sense of taking care of everybody yeah so i did that one that was a disaster the queen's slate yeah yeah um just i was horrible in it i had no i think i could be okay uh in the digital age if someone say you were going to direct me and i'm going to play this character yeah this person you've been talking to right and i'm quasi improvising but locking in line for line with 125 takes yeah i couldn't i was right dead so that was a disaster so and that really shook me up then i did road to wellville which is a little side one and then i did trap in paradise another three million dollar with lovett's and um and these are not big budgeted

movies you're saying three million as a three million was what i got oh okay yeah all right in 1992 three so it's like six million dollars right well i'll just have fun in the snow and That's what I got. Oh, okay. Yeah. All right. In 1992 or three. So it's like $6 million. Right. Well, I'll just have fun in the snow. And Nicolas Cage, who I love, brilliant. So the director, it was a disaster. Right.

I didn't really know how movies were made. I was naive. And I was just made these bad, bad choices. Right. So I think the missing piece of it was on the side. Hollywood was saying, just put him in a movie as a typical stupid he's trying

yeah well he does a church it doesn't matter yeah put him in a movie the kids are gonna come right so I was being corrupted

by this money which I don't really care about but that's all in the story so on the side I was developing stuff like Odekirk and I wrote a western

comedy western called Tucson which is really really funny so that was being Bob or Steve Bob okay and Hans and Franz and I wrote a comedy western called Tucson, which is really, really funny. So that was being developed. Bob or Steve? Bob. Okay.

And Hans and Franz, The Girly Man Dilemma. Yeah. I was writing with Conan and Smigel and Nealon. Yeah. And that was when Conan was sort of, I was being touted to take over the Letterman spot, which, again, was another thing that you know, that was coming at me. Right.

Like, so much was coming at me. Right. I mean, I was too hot, and I had no confidence, experience, you know. And on SNL, you can't make money on SNL. You have to leave SNL. Right. You know, Carell was probably making $400,000 a week at the end of The Office. I'm just throwing Steve out for that.

Right. Yeah. But, so that was going along with that and then I just, after Trap in Paradise and Clean Slate, I just sort of stopped. Then Arnold decided he didn't want to do Hans and Franz

the Girly Man Dilemma, of which we made him a third lead. Yeah. Which was okay. He was developing 10 movies. I didn't know how that worked. Right.

Yeah, so that collapses. Tucson was made for me and Lovitz as a comedy western and John decided not to do it because he was kind of hot at the time. Right.

We wrote it so great for John. Yeah. So great. He had a very unique thing. When he had a very specific character. Yeah. Like I come in as the Irish guy who only heard about, I'm the new sheriff in the West.

Right. I'm from Dublin. Right. And I'm lethal with these little guns, and I'm very innocent. And John is the guy, he's like his character. So I come in, he's getting hung. Yeah. And there's a poster when he ran for mayor if i don't clean up the town you can hang me yeah so and then i show up and so it's us on this journey there's a robbery and we go we go we meet lincoln on a train when he's like 28 and he's a prick and uh we actually stretch time

so that einstein's parents are there and we change his diaper and it's all that you know and we actually stretch time so that Einstein's parents are there and we change his diaper. And it's all the, you know, and we go back to New York in like 1830 and it's just rudimentary New York. Like there's one Chinese guy with a, you know, and baseball hadn't been invented. It was very, and Owen Kirk was brilliant. Yeah, he's funny, yeah.

He's kind of sterile. So that fell apart. And then Bad Boys that Will Smith did, I was developing that. Simpson and Bruckheimer wanted John and I to be in that. But the script they were writing me, I sounded like Don Simpson, who was such a sweet guy. And they said, Don goes,

we're going to add two inches to your... The producer? Yeah, the producer, Simpson and Bruckheimer. Don said, we're going to add two inches to your chest. So I was going to play the stud Will Smith part. We're going to get me in a gym. So I'd already gotten a half million dollars up front from Jeffrey Katzenberg to do the movie for another three million.

And I gave the money back. So suddenly those three movies disappeared. Clean Slate disappeared. And I just stopped at that point. When did you do the Dana Carvey show? That happened in 96 i did a stand-up special then i did that the show that smigel and louis 896 and that thing lasted like four episodes yeah so the movie's bomb i turned down those other movies because they were pay or play i could have done tucson i could have done hans and franz and i could have done Tucson. I could have done Hans and Franz, and I could have done Bad Boys. That was $9 million.

Right. I was being offered potato chip commercials for $10 million, I turned down. All this stuff. And then I did the show, sitting around, Smigel, let's do the variety show. So that was 96, and that lasted, I think it aired seven times. Dino was there too, right? Yeah, Dino, who's still a very good friend. Yeah.

Brilliant. Yeah, great comedy guys, but it was just too right yeah dino was still a very good friend yeah uh brilliant yeah great comedy guys but it was just too crazy for people there's a long story it never should have been on an abc it didn't belong on the disney and it was no one really knew what we were going to do and again with me and who i am that's what i i love that show yeah but my brand they didn't know that church lady's kind of subversive they thought I was sort of going to be cute and nice. The show was really clean. It was just very acidy and brilliant, except for the first sketch that Louis wrote where I'm... Clinton had the nipples, the teats.

Which wasn't Louis' fault. We all decided to put it out there, but we banked it a month before, and we lost perspective on what America would think. So it went from 16 million to 2 million so basically i get on sl 86 i do very well on that i got wayne's world and then that's by 93 i leave by 95 i'm telling what the fuck do i do i do but you're rich well there's nets and you buy a house and the member bud and billy from the beginning of our journey?

Yeah, sure, sure. I was writing checks. I mean, there's a difference. John Travolta came around once and told me I'll do the voice for fun. You know, the whole point is to live off the interest. So I took that advice. That's just an exact approach. That's just an exact.

So I always thought that real wealth is having enough money in the bank that gives you enough tax-free interest that you can live really comfortable and then do whatever you want. But unfortunately, interest rates have been at 1% the last eight years. Okay. So I'm still working. If they go to five, I'm done. I'll buy you a house. All right. So there you are, 96.

Yeah. And you don't know what to do. Yeah. And then buy you a house. All right. So there you are, 96. Yeah. And you don't know what to do. Yeah. And then we did the show and then that failed. And then, so then I thought, well, it's one thing to be an absentee parent and just have this flailing career. So I was at the same time sort of being offered corporate standup dates, which was not my dream as a little boy.

But like for a quarter million bucks a pop? $150 plus a jet. I tried to get out of them by sometimes saying $150 and a Gulfstream. And they kept saying yes. So I was making money after that as if I was a movie star. Right. Through stand-up. But you were out of the guy. But I was out of the guy.

I would just occasionally drive down in Duleno. But staying home with the family, being a dad. Because I could do these 40-50 corporate dates I took all month at Christmas, summers. I could just be a dad. And you got two kids. Two boys, yeah. And the same

wife. Yeah. And during this downtime, were you hanging out with your friends like Mike and Sandler or Robin? Well, they were all around doing their thing. But right in that time, just because it's one other piece that's very interesting, is that I found out I had 100% blocked artery in 1997. Did you feel it? Only when I ran or exercised, I would feel like a roughness in my throat,

like sort of as if you didn't warm up on a cold morning and just went sprinting. And so I eventually got checked out and then I, you know, I went down that journey. And something got fucked up, right? They bypassed the wrong artery. I had, first I had all these stents put in. It was all just in one place. That's so scary too, right?

It's horrifying. They're cutting you open like that and they had to do it twice? Well, they only cut me open once with a saw. Yeah. I'll never forget it. Yeah. Well, I mean, I was out, but I remember lying there. You know, they give you a few little drugs, but there was a towel, and I was making jokes.

You don't know how you deal. Yeah, yeah. You know, I was doing Woody Allen literally at that moment. I'm not joking. Yeah. Yeah, what's under the towel? Yeah. Yeah.

So that also happened, and then Sinatra died in my arms, and. Yeah. So that also happened. And then Sinatra died in my arms. And then Phil and Bren, that happened. What do you mean? Well, when I found out they bypassed the wrong artery, it was May, I think May 8th, 98. Yeah. And Sinatra came in that night. I was reading a magazine, two in the morning, and he came on to the cardiovascular wing where I was.

Frank Sinatra. Frank Sinatra died right down the hall from where I was. Frank Sinatra. Frank Sinatra died right down the hall from me that night. Did you meet him? No. No, he was just coming in. He died. He had a heart attack, I assume. Oh, my God.

Isn't that weird? What about Phil? Well, then two weeks later, Phil and Bren had that whole thing happen. Were you close with Phil? Very. We lived around the corner. Were you close with Phil? Very. We lived around the corner. Our kids were just being raised together. Did you ever see that possibility of happening?

Everything in retrospect. I remember them showing me the guns. And Bren was so loyal and so close to my wife and such a nice person. What can you say? and such a nice person um you know what what can you say it's it's probably something to do with um antidepressants and cocaine and a waking dream state yeah um you know so it's just horrible that's so it was so fucking tragic yeah and phil we were just really tight yeah jam together one of the sweet guy just just yeah and so talented effortlessly and such a renaissance man he'd go down to his his motorboat and he just was so meticulous i never flew with him because i had

terrible fear of flying but we'd go out to van nuys airport and we'd put the headset on listening to things and we would jam he played blues guitar and after he died and brand that tragedy his kids they moved to minnesota and they came and visited us in Mill Valley. And my son was a pretty good guitar player. I had little drums. Yeah. And then Sean, his son, got on a bass and had invented this little cool bass line. Yeah.

And we're jamming. And that's the moment where it just waved over me. I'm crying behind my eyes right now, which I do often. But I just think, God, Phil should be here. Right. Because his son is so cool. over me would then you know i'm crying behind my eyes right now which is i do often but it's just like how phil should be here because his son is so cool and bergen is so beautiful and in just they're great kids and so everybody's still friends yeah i mean they all keep in touch my wife's been in touch from sending christmas gifts and on facebook or something where do they they i think sean now is up in the Bay Area. Oh.

He has a band and he's really, really talented. Oh good. It was right after it all happened or a few years later I was playing

a New Year's Eve gig in Minnesota and it was Dennis, Kevin and Victoria Jackson. Wow. And we're, and so we wanted to go visit them

and Victoria volunteered to go with me and she was the person i know she's she's how she's very right wing but as this other person at that is the exact person you wanted because she wears everything on her sleeve before the change before that yeah which you know people were that's a whole other story we may not survive the web and social media that's a whole other conversation if something may not survive the web and social media. That's a whole other conversation. If something's going to get us, it's this insidious thing. It's a monster that's growing.

But I'll never forget just going into Sean's bedroom, and he was just very quiet, and he brought out a book, a picture book of his mom and dad. And I just sat next to him, and he just flipped through. And they're beautiful black and white photos. And just flipped through. Yeah. Life is amazing, man.

Fuck. So show business didn't seem quite as important. Yeah, so you took a long time. I kind of, I lived up in Mill Valley, up in. When did they fix your heart? The last time, they go through your femoral artery, and they do that. So the bypass got one artery. It was only two arteries on the right side.

It was very limited, but the main artery, the left lower anterior descending, if that gets closed, you're really – it was a miracle I didn't have a heart attack, but I didn't, and that's why I can hike and do anything. But they did a subsequent angioplasty when they discovered it because I kept having the burning symptoms, but I was going between Marin County and Cedars-Sinai, but I got with Cedars-Sinai and P.K. Shaw

and their team, and they found it. In fact, I saw the cardiovascular interventionist who did the final angioplasty. I saw him the other night. He played the Thousand Oaks Theater. Yeah. Neil Igler,

and that one is just held. It just never clogged again. Oh, wow. And they don'taks Theater. Yeah. Neil Igler. And that one is just held. It just never clogged again. Oh, wow. And they don't know why. Yeah. But my cholesterol, I had familial hypokalestremia. My cholesterol was like 450

and now it's like, you know, 120 or whatever. Do you take pills? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I take blood thinners. I take baby aspirin,

ZDS, Crestor. So, after all is said and done, you and your wife are still together. Yep. You're healthy-ish. Well, I'm completely healthy.

People always say, how are you feeling? Yeah. And I go, you know, I'm like a 747. I fly when I'm perfect or not. You know, it's fun that, you know, we didn't really talk about SNL, which is fine because you talk about it a lot. You've talked about it in your life. It was a good good experience but like what's more concerned to me is that you know that that the triple the the sort of career crash heart issue friends tragically dying you know just sort of locked you into like you know appreciating life

and and you know connecting with your kids who are now in show business? They're doing stand-up, and they're loving it. It wasn't my plan. We raised them up there. I told my wife, and I tell my kids, make your career inside out. Don't ask permission, just like what you did here. Make it inside out, and you can do it.

I don't care if you're on a network that hasn't been invented or even thought of. Yeah. You may not be famous but I tell them if you work hard you can make 100 grand a year.

Yeah. It's real big. Good. And you and your wife after all these years are okay day to day? We have, we were just instinctual back then but our sensibilities, you know, we're learning,

we're still evolving, learning to argue and communicate with each other. Good. You know. You're in therapy now. I know, it's such a cliche. No, it's great. I mean, it's a cliche or what? I mean, after years and years of discomfort and the fact that conan's a guy that that told

you maybe you deserve to be happy like because that guy didn't have it easy either mentally well conan yeah i think you know people comedians in general are sensitive instruments if they're good or whatever style they do they're sensitive instruments they have to process the world in this way and there's a downside to that but i didn't come out with a full deck i mean my child was too wicked for me to make choices around myself in celebrity and um i just got exhausted by it and i know there's still more to go i mean i was i mean we're you just keep going i think why'd you come back this time i mean the special straight white male is a comedy special but i I mean, what are you expecting now? What do you want to do?

What I would really like to do is a single camera show on a live streaming network where I play a very subtle character. It's with a narrative and in a film, that kind of thing. I played around with this. Oh, so you're working on it. Yeah. It's just, you get really distracted by stand-up yeah and stand-up takes so much energy it's like show business reinvents itself every 18 months right

i can't even people talking about networks so i to me it's the greatest time i don't i've saved a lot of money i have plenty of fame whatever is going to happen when i go to jesus has already been garth you know saturday Live, which is fine. Yeah. So that's why I want to do cool stuff. I love the Quentin Tarantino model of creating violent tension before, after, and then Samuel L. Jackson or Christoph Waltz doing these ornate, great monologues. I mean, I aspire to that, but I know I would do it my own way, slightly funnier. Right. But I want a real narrative and a real story.

Even wackiness and the sensibility of things that are on their sleeve funny, that are forced, don't appeal to me. And I'll do it my own way. So this is the show you're thinking about? This is the template for what I will do. I don't know where it will be. I'm This is the template for what I will do. I don't know where it will be. I'm circling the wagons around CISO. I don't know.

Okay. Or the next CISO. I just want to have it be creatively free. And, you know, you just find out. I'm sure you're the same way. It's like, well, when you were 33. Okay, what will I be like at 53? Will I give a shit about this? and you're kind of like i guess

i didn't do it for the money or the fame so i'm kind of exactly the same i'm possessed by it that's i i that's the same with me but like my possession by it is is lessening like i i don't know if it's sort of day to day but like seeing that like what I really wanted to do was not be terrified financially. Right. That's good. And to be able to take care of myself in that way, and also to feel comfortable in myself. Yeah.

So I've achieved that. So there's a big part of me that's sort of like, I'm done, right? Well, I feel like- I've got to fight that. I know that my most popular moves that I've had, like Dennis Miller always said, everyone's got one chimp trick. If you get two chimp tricks, you're a superstar.

He sees it as a chimp trick. So I feel like I have a couple more moves that I was never allowed to show because on SNL, it was a take no prisoners, repeat characters, big and loud. There were a few little moments in the first Wayne's World that I liked that were played

very small I ruined Wayne's World 2 because I was over the top and the makeup was terrible okay

I don't mean literally my therapist always says that too but I feel like I have some your therapist tells you you ruined Wayne's World 2

well I just I flog myself too easily but I don't in the movie no I mean in life I ruined the movie I don't really mean easily, but I don't. In the movie? No, I mean in life. Like I ruin the movie.

I don't really mean it that way. Right, I know. Very self-critical. Right, right. But you got another chimp trick is what we're saying. I feel, and I've done some short films with it,

but I don't say it would be the most popular trick. That's all right. I think what people like me to do is what I do. When I do Donald Trump, they levitate. Are you still friendly

with dennis yes the people who you go through that snl experience with you just you stay connected who do you talk to regularly um kevin nealon he's funny i've i have to i haven't yet to have him in here he's great um kevin um john lovitz we're going to play vegas we're doing 10 weekends in vegas three of you no just me and love it okay i know he's the funniest we're ititz, we're going to play Vegas. We're doing 10 weekends in Vegas. The three of you? No, just me and Lovitz. Okay. I know. He's the funniest. We're doing a little stand-up, and then we'll do a little,

he'll have the piano and stuff. Mike? Mike, yeah, not as much. He's got three kids. He's in New York. Lorne? Lorne, lately I've emailed him and stuff and said, nice show and this and that, and I've emailed him and stuff and said nice show

and this and that and I've seen him when I've gone out there I've seen him twice in the last few months and some of the younger ones I come into their sphere here and there

like Bill Hader and John Mulaney yeah are very cool to be around Bill Hader's like you know he's a very nice guy

both of those guys are nice guys and they're funny guys yeah and Fred Armisen I'm just I'm friendly with these guys when I see them. Well, I have to tell you, you seem like you're in a good place, and I'm happy about that. Yeah, I don't know.

Well, this was really cool. I had no idea what to expect. I kind of thought there might be two other people in the house somehow. You know, most people, you do anything. Even if it's in a garage, there's going to be a handler. I mean, it wasn't just you and Obama yeah obviously they were out there there was only one Secret Service guy back here behind me and the rest of them were out there and they let him talk freely right so like this is this this is podcast is

huge right yeah you wouldn't know it from the surroundings I mean it's very I guess that's the gift of it I guess that's why it is what it is if you went to a bigger room or dressed it up it would or it was a studio yeah yeah yeah i can't i just have to keep things dusted yeah yeah but um this would be like what i have i'm very messy uh pads of yellow oh yeah a lot of that yellow and then you start looking at these piles and i'm like i'm not going to do anything with any of this why don't i I just move it? And then I don't know. Maybe I'll give it to people to come over. Yeah, you can have that.

I totally relate to it. I mean, like those papers, I've got thousands of those. Those are specific. Those are. Well, I mean, those that's I just like looking at those because that's like there's not questions. There's just these like I just box things. I put words up. And then like during the interview, I'll look down and I'll go like and the word will trigger like what i was interested

in and i'll know whether or not i got it or not like i usually just look at them like i'll scribble all this stuff down when i put together what i want to talk about like some people where i like that i'm intimidated by or i know it's you know i've got to be on point in my own yeah i would be nervous what yeah yeah those guys right because lauren and i like that was like a big deal i remember that i never heard all about that and that are you over that now yeah kind of no i am totally oh totally yeah no i like you know he like he charmed me man oh yeah yeah he's uh it's not personal and also he's just a guy who works at a building ultimately he is i know but like really like he And also, he's just a guy who works at a building. Ultimately, he is. I know.

But like, really? Like, he's there. He's like, you know, he likes to work. And like, the last time I did Fallon, he came down, said hi, then went back to work. And he still really, really cares about that show. It's amazing. No, like, just, you know, whatever happened in that meeting I had with him, you know, he was willing to address it point for point. And, you know, sure, he's only going with him you know he was willing to address it

point for point and you know sure sure he you know he's only going to tell me what he wants to tell me but for me to have that and for me to hit for him to ask me back and to finish it because i we got cut short right it whether it matters to him or not it mattered a lot to me and i and i have a new respect for the guy you know any kind of you of, you know, as you get older, any kind of falling out with people, or maybe you made him mad. I mean, it's just at some point, when you put your weapons down, and you go, look, I mean, this life's hard.

We're all suffering here, man. Yeah. And then they go, okay. Usually things can be worked out. Grudges shouldn't last. That's true. You're right. If you go, and even if, so you go,

I fucked up, or, you know. Right. I should true. You're right. If you go, and even if so, you go, I fucked up or, you know. Right. I should have called you. Right. Ahead of time, but I retreated and then things got stirred up. So, anyway. No, no, I know. I mean, I got one of those, like, you know.

Yeah. There's one or two. Oh, I have a couple. Well, no, I only have one right now. Yeah, that's probably one. Which I don't want to say, but I feel terrible about it. Yeah Oh, I have a couple. Well, no, I only have one right now, which I don't want to say. But I feel terrible about it. Yeah. When I think about it.

What are you going to do about it? I should reach out. I should reach out. So it's on you. That person might have reached out to me, but it was in a subtle way. And I, you know, your email email feed and then it goes to the second page like did i right was i invited to something right you know so life's weird i just the more i think about it just you know um i think if being your authentic self is a good goal

of reaching that it's also just letting go letting go of all of it and allowing yourself just to be experiential I tell young people I go it's experiential

get rid of the fear you're just gonna experience stuff on the planet whether you're Neil Armstrong or whoever right you're just experiencing

stuff and then you yeah don't be don't be too hard on yourself well I'll try. Let's see.

For this one, will I be later on driving around L.A. going, oh, I should have been more forthcoming or maybe I... No. I don't think I will. I may not because I wasn't... This isn't a performance. No, we were good. This was great.

It seemed really nice on my side. I loved it. I loved it. It was great. I had no idea what to expect. I didn't know where you were at in your life. And the only impression I had was that when I met you, was that he's got that sort of simmering niceness thing.

And that you were pretty diplomatic. Right. Oh, I'm sick competitively. I mean, Dennis and I will talk about it. I mean, Dennis can say to me he had schadenfreude when I was Wayne's World. Yeah. And I go, of course you would. I would have too.

Yeah. Those are like sort of a Zen thing of these emotions are like little friends. Like if I'm on a showcase show at the comedy store, I have it in my head. Well, I have to dominate. Yeah, I don't have that. It's ridiculous. I still have the. I never had

that i always assumed i would fail how was your set that night fine it was fine it was fine okay it was not great it was fine but i i but i went out there with a little of that you know and i lived in that right i don't like it anymore i don't like when I'm there in it. But sometimes it happens. Just sort of like, all right, so you like that guy? Fuck you, but okay. It's old. But I got one Dennis Mills story for you I think you'll like. I've told it before because I don't know him at all.

I've never fucking met the guy. But years ago, his brother Jimmy was scouting around way back. It must have been in the late 80s. I was a Catch Rising star in Boston. He was in Boston doing something, looking at people. I don't know what. He wasn't the sort of mythic manager that he is now. Right, I know. But he and I and Janine Garofalo went out after Catch Rising star in Boston to go to a club or something.

And I was bitter and angry and struggling. But I met Jimmy because he booked the comedy club in Albuquerque, New Mexico, where I grew up. He booked it. Where my brother lives. I must have played that place. Oh, yeah? Yeah, Brad lives there.

Well, Jimmy was one of the first guys to ever see me do stand-up, like way back. But anyway, so I knew him kind of. So we're in the car in Boston, me, him, and Garofalo, and I'm spinning out. And I'm like, I just don't know how you you know what do you how do you get your voice you know what do you do i mean your fucking brother figured it out and jimmy miller just goes he's doing belzer yeah and he would admit that was a huge influence yeah yeah you always get it from somewhere the trigger you know the the the that, you know, the drive shaft, the thing that hooks you.

Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, did Churchill come from off record or something? I don't know. I don't know. It's a tone. It's a, you know, you're going to lean on things that you know work because you respect or are a fan of somebody's and then it kind of fades. Well, I mean, in the early days, I was just trying to be Robin Williams.

Sure. And I realized I couldn't. But I was, I had the trunk and the props and I was in the early days I was just trying to be Robin Williams sure and I realized I couldn't but I was I had the trunk and the props and I was doing the voices

and then years later the year before he died he stopped me outside the Throckmorton in misty sky yeah I was leaving no one's around

dead streets and with that incredible voice he had I'd like to talk to you and he wanted to make amends to me

for taking stuff. And honest to God, I don't mind talking about this because I don't remember him taking anything from me. But he said he did. And I said to him at that moment, but I don't know if it's an AA thing of making amends or something. I said, but Robin, I tried to take your whole persona. I tried to be you, you know?

Yeah. And so we had lunch the next day. Oh, that's true. But it was sort of interesting. Yeah. I said, he said this at Dennis Miller's wedding like 25 years before. People say, you know, he referred to his dick as Mr. Happy. Yeah.

He mentioned it again. Some people say, Mr. Happy was yours. And I go, no, no, no. It wasn't. It never was. You know? Well, that's nice that you had the line. Well, I was sincere.

I go, look. And I said to him, I said, look, don't be so hard on yourself because you invented a construct. You invented an idea that a lot of other great comics, we don't have to mention, this free form kind of thing. You're a Shakespearean actor. So that's what he did invent. Inside the jokes and the comedy, people would have their own opinions about. But as an idea of a guy on stage oh he's an asset

this is a frisbee oh look you know just that and also this baritone British accent he had so it was a brilliant

yeah he was Robin he's just one of a kind and also nobody's done nobody was that had that film career

and stand-up. Immensely talented, sweet guy. Yeah. Well, good talking to you, man. I know. What did we say? Do you have a little theme song? No, it was nice to talk to you, finally.

Nice to talk to you. That was very interesting. We can sing like one bar of a song. Let me think of, what's your favorite Beatles song? That's a terrible question. What's a Beatles song you like? That we can go out on? Yeah, let me just think.

How about No Reply? I've just seen a face I can't forget the time A place where we just met There's just a girl for me And I want all the world To see we've met Fall in

Yes, I am falling and she keeps calling me back again thanks so we can sing in the same thoughtful guy deep guy i i feel like i got to know him a bit you guys feel that oh i think i can play some guitar i didn't prepare anything but i did plug it into a different amp hold on a minute uh Close. Boomer lives! opportunity-rich city home to innovators, dreamers, disruptors, and problem solvers. The city's visionaries are turning heads around the globe across all sectors each and every day. They embody Calgary's DNA. A city that's innovative, inclusive, and creative. And they're helping put Calgary and our innovation ecosystem on the map as a place where people come to solve some of the world's greatest challenges. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look at Calgary economic development.com. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of kids night when the Toronto rock take on the Colorado mammoth at a special 5.00 PM start time on Saturday, March

9th at first Ontario center in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance. We'll get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com.