WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 766 - Shane Mauss

Episode Date: December 8, 2016

Comedian Shane Mauss saw his career gathering steam only to stall out and make him feel like opportunities were passing him by. Then an accident that left him with two broken feet coincided with another journey. One that involves neuroscience, psychedelic drugs, and an altered perception that led to a career rejuvenation. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talked to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! All right, let's do this.

How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fuckadelics? How's it going? That was my psychedelic noise. Now I keep doing it.

That's my impression of nitrous. You ever taken a hit of nitrous and then you sort of, you kind of go out and then reality comes back like that. I'm sorry. What is happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Thank you for listening. There is a point to me addressing mind-altering business.

My guest today is Shane Moss. He's a comic. He is touring his show. he is a uh a psychedelic explorer he's he's on tour right now and he's still got 20 cities to go and he'll be setting up some international dates you can go to shanemoss.com for dates and locations that's shane m-a-u-s-s.com a psychedelic explorer there's a whole new approach to it these days it's not all uh grateful dead music and uh dancing around in a circle quickly making the people around you uncomfortable uh it there i've talked to a lot of people a lot of it's it's going around man ayahuasca

is uh is is the new brain cleansing if you want want to sort of cleanse your psychic palette of all your stress and anxiety and just hit reset, there's some part of me that wants to buy into that. The dumb little drug addict in me is like, yeah, maybe ayahuasca is the thing that will have all the answers for a little while. The Carnegie Hall posters, which no one had any time to buy at Carnegie Hall, are now available at WTFpod.com.

They're hand-printed, hand-screened, signed posters. Very old school, kind of like the 50s groovy jazz posters. I love the poster. They're up. They're available. They're $40, and they're beautiful, and they're worth it, and I'll sign them. All right. WTFpod.com, new Carnegie Hall posters.

Go get them if you want them. Nice Christmas gift. All right, moving on. The best trip I ever had was when me and my roommate lance took some shrooms in the middle of the day which is the only time to do it as far as i'm concerned because if you do it at night uh it could get scary outside if you don't have to travel too far maybe you're in a concert situation but if you're going to trip at night and you're alone you better have the fortitude to handle it because people become sweaty and creepy pretty quick their faces

get large and uh they they have bad intentions and they're surrounding you and they can see that you're you're you're having a hard time swallowing and you're sweating chemicals and then you end up locked in your apartment or your house just for safety as you bounce off the fucking walls on ancient hallucinogenic substances. But one time in Boston, me and my buddy Lance took mushrooms. We just set out to walk to the aquarium from Fenway all the way down, just walking, enjoying the day. Beautiful sunlight out.

Everything was crisp. Everybody was one thing. It was all perfect. We were all just sort of kind of humming at the same frequency. There was no distance between me and a rock and that guy across the street everything was connected moving through the day and then we got down to faneuil hall and the bricks there the old bricks they were kind of a problem they made every it made it very difficult to walk because everything was tilting and shaking

and moving around those bricks were dancing because they're ancient bricks. And I was connected to them. And they were not happy. They were all smushed up next to each other. And they had been for centuries. And they wanted to be free. So they were shaking. And I remember we were walking.

We needed something to drink badly because you get that weird thirst when you're tripping. You get that weird thirst. You're thirsty in every cell of your body. And nothing will taste better than a cold beer. And we stood there at a bar that was sort of half outside. And they were cutting oysters open. They were shucking oysters. And we were sitting there having a pint of beer.

Watching them shuck those oysters. And we were tripping balls. And I swear in that moment, they popped those shells open. And I saw those oysters take their last prehistoric breath, a breath that is part of a legacy of millions of years of shellfish with weird, wavy, deformed shells just gasping. That was upsetting. That was upsetting. There was no doubt that is upsetting. I remember we saw some weird, dirty business on the common some surveillance situation there were cops involved

and we were going to solve the mystery but we didn't want to chime in because we were tripping balls and then and then we kept moving and we got to the entrance of the aquarium and we just wanted to go look at fish that seemed like a decent thing do, to just stick your nose up against the glass to see the dinosaurs move around in the liquid. And then we were sitting there and two things happened that were jarring and memorable. Not that you want some meat, you need some meat. Not that guy. He didn't come up, but I did see a seagull with a leftover with the remains of an eaten

chicken wing in its beak. And I thought, that's an indicator of the end of all things. And then a blind man approached us with a cane. He was walking with his cane. And he said, could someone help me? Could somebody help me? And me and my friend Lance were tripping balls and trying not to laugh. We wanted to help out.

But when you're tripping balls, everything is funny. Or maybe one thing is funny and it just lasts a really long time and infects everything else with the funny. And then you're just on the humming frequency of everything and all things. And then just above it, you're riding the laughing frequency that just hums along on top of it. And it's hard to stop. But we pulled it together. We sucked it up. And we said, where do you need to go pal where can

we walk you and he goes i need to get tickets to the whale watch oh that was rich that was rough the old blind guy is asking me and my roommate lance and we're tripping balls on shrooms to walk him to the ticket office for the whale watch but there was something in our hearts that realized that this was a serious situation who are we to judge what do we know what people can feel maybe we should close our fucking eyes and get on a boat and see the whales right this guy was much different than us in the way that he operated at a different frequency all the time. His senses were jacked all the time. He just wanted to listen to the water and feel the air and feel the breeze

and feel the motion of the water underneath the boat and maybe hear that whale, that dinosaur, blow some water out of its spout hole and then feel the massive connection of that to him, to his ears, to all things. And that's without the fucking mushrooms. So we of that to him to his ears to all things and that's without the fucking mushrooms so we did that for him we walked him and he got his tickets and then we went out and went in then we went in to the aquarium and pressed our faces up against the giant circular tank at the center of the boston aquarium and watched all levels of fish just move through their

fucking frequency we were outside of it but we were definitely in it see i told you about that tripping story there were some bad ones where I decided the acid wasn't working, so I took more. Never a great idea. But there's only a handful of times in my life, and I can't say that I ever took any journeys that were enlightening. Yet, poetically, in recounting that story, it was. It was. Sometimes your memories are what you have. Sometimes post-trip is where you figure it out.

What you have sometimes post-trip is where you figure it out. During the trip, you think it may not ever end in that you'll always have that cathartic sort of enlightened truth kind of humming around you as you sweat. But it's when you come down where you kind of extrapolate from actual things that happened that may add to the poetry or wisdom of your life. But I don't buy it's a reset button. I don't buy that it's a cure for depression. But what do I know? It's been a long time. Do you know what I'm saying?

Shane Moss knows. Shane Moss knows. Shane Moss is a comic I'd known for a while. And we talked, man. You know, he got me. Literally, when we were talking about this talking to a guy talking about tripping and uh talking about hallucinogens and talking about them in a logical almost scientific way yeah it got me kind of squirrely and excited and i felt that weird tingle but uh but i just i just listened so this is me and Shane Moss talking about that.

As I said before, he's on tour right now. He's got about 20 cities left to go, and he'll be setting up some international dates soon. So go to shanemos.com for dates and locations. That's shanemuss.com. This is me and Shane talking. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats.

But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without

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Shane Moss. Is that it? Yep. Moss. Yeah, thanks for asking. M-A-U-S-S. Yeah, I usually remember to tell people ahead of time because everyone always screws it up. What do they get? I get a lot of mouse, which I actually think is how it's maybe supposed to be pronounced

because I know there's German people that have the same pronunciation and that's how they... Mouse? They say mouse? Yeah, and it's a German name, so I'm pretty sure I've been saying it wrong my whole life. German name, but you have no identification with German relatives or anything else that just kind of came down on you?

Yeah, yeah. No German grandmother? I think I'm like 75% Irish, actually. I'm only like 25% German. What's that name? Leppert. Leppert? Yeah. That's Irish? I guess, I guess I don't know who's that your mom's side yeah that's my mom's side a lot of Irish people uh yeah yeah pretty Irish I can't remember the last time I guess the last time I saw you was uh I not saw

you but you did one of these way back it was a live one yeah Aspen from that comedy festival. And then we did Austin. You were on that one too? Yeah, yeah. South by Southwest I was on. I'm just trying to recall. Like, I didn't know you that well, but the first time you were on the up and up, you were married. I wasn't married, but it felt like I was going to be.

I thought I was going to be spending my life with someone at the time. Yeah, I just had you pegged as sort of like, well, he's going to have a rough go at it. That guy's a little too straight to be doing stand-up. Well, fortunately, I was a wild alcoholic. So that made me different and interesting. Really different being an alcoholic in comedy. That's very unique. See, because i didn't i

didn't know anything i didn't know that about you where'd you grow up um i grew up in wisconsin a small town in wisconsin like very pleasantville ish it's a near what city well you might know lacrosse wisconsin um it's on the border of minnesota and iowa it's like directly in between um milwaukee and minne Right. I don't know. Back in the day, maybe you did work at the college there or something like that. I've been to Milwaukee. I've been to Minneapolis, but I don't know if I know the-

Or Madison and Minneapolis is what I meant to say. Oh, Madison and Minneapolis. Those are two pretty smart cities, nice places. Yeah, but in between that is- That's where it gets dicey. Nothing but farms and stuff. And it's very, I had a very, very wholesome upbringing. And I couldn't stand it.

It drove me crazy. Was your family in farming? No, but I mean, my mom's dad was a farmer. My dad's dad did some farming. Right. He also worked at a factory as well, but also had a little farm. And what did your old man do? My dad has a business making countertops.

And so I was working since the age of like 9 or 10 for him here and there. For Micah? Yeah, some for Micah, Corian. What's that one? Corian. What is that? It's like for Micah. Formica yeah yeah any stone tops stone uh he just started doing stone a few years ago yeah marble yeah you have to buy like a way

more expensive machines and equipment to cut through that stuff so he thought he paid off yeah yeah is it paying off for him yeah it is, he's doing it. I mean, his business is like five employees or something like that. But does he have a showroom? Because the machines do everything. Does he have a showroom where you walk in and you're like, oh, yeah. Yeah, he has a big showroom. Yeah, he does pretty well. My dad's not a guy that spends money.

Yeah. So I don't know how much he actually has in the bank. But he's the counter guy. He's the pretty frugal guy. Yeah, like contractors are like we got a counter guy yeah my my dad's this hard-working i mean both my parents just 90 hours a week and i saw it growing up and i was just like no way was your mom in the same business no my mom my mom was just a receptionist for a clinic and then everything was fine until she now she's a

supervisor for a clinic and she's just overworked and my mom's a perfectionist and cares way too much about every little thing yeah so she she works 90 hours a week where when she absolutely wouldn't have to what clinic what kind of clinic just a just a little hospital a health clinic yeah so there you are so you're not in farming you You're in this little town in Wisconsin. Yeah. Hard working, counter making pop. Yeah.

You're in the shop cutting formica. Yeah, yeah. And I was always very rebellious. I was raised very strict and I was raised in a very religious upbringing. Which religion? Catholic. Really? raised very in a very religious upbringing which religion uh catholic really i think a lot of people had it much worse than i did as far as how strict my parents were as far as that go i think i

went to a public high school and everything you got brothers and sisters yeah i have a sister who's five years younger and a brother who's nine years younger and we get along great how old are you i'm 36 no kidding think about that for a second. That's funny. So you still got like, so all right. You're pretty young people. Yeah, yeah. You got like a little brother. Yeah, yeah.

But he's like, he's married and has a really good job and is doing really well for himself doing computer programming stuff. How about this sis? He's the one that's, my sister, she's doing great. She's taking over my dad's business. She's in the countertop biz. What were you going to say about your brother? I'm more the failure. Oh, yeah. My brother is definitely... He's the one that's

kind of killing it, made it on his own, and is making good money. Oh, he chose a skill, Shane. He chose a skill. I know. He chose... Hey, little brother, can I borrow some money? Has that happened yet? It happened for this tour that I'm putting together.

It was the first time, actually. Yeah? We were just talking about it on the phone, and I was like, I don't know if I'm going to have enough money for all this marketing that I want to do. And he's doing well, so he's like, what do you need? And I'm like, oh, no. Am I really just about to borrow money from my little brother? But he offered it up.

Oh, he's great. I mean, we're like best friends. Really? Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, that's great. We have a wonderful, we've always had a great relationship. My sister and I didn't always get along. She's the middle?

She's in the middle? Yeah, you know, she would tell on me. I was always getting into trouble, and she was the one that would narc on me when I was a kid. What kind of trouble? into trouble and she was the one that would that would narc on me when i when i was a kid what kind of trouble um i got into i mean i was just as rebellious as you could as i could possibly be set fire to things before before drugs yeah yeah i was into like if i could vandalize i i did a lot of this is it's so embarrassing to talk about now. This is incredibly embarrassing. I used to blow up mailboxes.

That was my big thing. With M-80s? It's humiliating. No, these little bombs you put in a soda bottle. Oh, yeah? He had to make a bomb to blow up mailboxes. And you'd stand there and watch it happen? Yeah, well, that's part of the fun of it.

Are you talking about mailboxes in front of homes or USPS? No, in front of homes. Oh. Yeah, yeah. You weren't? No, I think a friend of mine put... You weren't Robert De Niro in Mean Streets walking away from the mailbox on the street and it blows up?

I think one of my friends did that once, actually. He stepped up, huh? He went on to full felony vandalism. And I remember it was so stupid, too. It would always be like kids that we didn't like in school. We'd get somehow their parents' mailbox needed to blow up. You had an agenda. You're like, we'll show them.

Yeah, yeah. Also, the closest call that i had was uh of vice principals because screw that guy yeah like a middle school vice you showed him blew up his mailbox and uh yeah it was i i remember uh one of my i was gonna show a new group of friends this new fun hobby of mine blowing up my mailbox. Sure. You got to be a leader. Yeah.

And it was daytime. It was daylight and everything. And it was shortly after school. And we went. It was my vice principal lived near one of my friends' house. And we all, I think there was probably six, eight of us, something like that, if I remember right. I put it all together, throw it in the mailbox. We start bicycling away.

And then the vice principal drives home. And he drives right past us and sees us. And his mailbox is about to blow up. So he's going to know that it's us. And so one of my friends is, well, I mean, we're all freaking out and so one of my friends is well i mean we're all freaking out but one of my friends is like i'm gonna go and get it i'm good i'm like no you aren't that's a bomb that's yeah it explodes so you want to stay away from it and he's like no no i'm gonna go get it i'm like no no it's just about to go off and he and he he ran over. He grabbed the bottle out of the...

And it must have been hot as hell. You could see it was bubbling. It was just about to go. It was all warped and whatnot. So it must have been hot. So he threw it quickly into the street. And just then a car was driving by. And it exploded under the car.

And then it shot out and knocked over the mailbox. Come on. That actually happened. I promise you. And we all biked away. We didn't get in trouble for that. The car didn't stop? I eventually got in trouble.

I think the car stopped and we just like biked away as fast as we could. So it didn't like it didn't take the car out. No, no. There wasn't carnage. It wasn't that powerful. Yeah, yeah. Like I said, it's enough to destroy a mailbox, but not much more than that.

So when did you become worse news? What'd you get caught for doing? Well, I mean, I got caught for blowing up. One day we went on a whole tirade where we had toilet paper and eggs and got like 10 mailboxes and paintballs. 36. How old was that happening? So this would have been like 94.

So you were how old? I guess 14. 13, 14. Right. Okay. Yeah. Right around that age. Yeah.

This is what you do as opposed to girls. Yeah. Yeah. Well, because you want girls and you have no idea how to do that. So put that energy into something better than that yeah um and then i mean i just i was up for what like i i liked breaking into places and stuff not not to like steal anything to i i liked climbing on top of like our school or whatever yeah and like partying up there sure and um so when did this partying what were you just boozing no but drugs didn't

start until i was like 15 um so this was just pure yeah just rage and excitement yeah adrenaline exactly yeah yeah just trying to uh i mean i'm still an idiot i still like i'm still an adrenaline junkie yeah time gets me in a lot of trouble. But I. What do you do? Drive fast? Jump out of planes? Yeah. I mean, I jump off things that are too high. I've hurt myself before. Really?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I remember I did skydiving once. You did? It was on my birthday a few years ago. And I remember I jumped out of the plane and I'm like hurling towards the ground. And I remember thinking like, man, this is so boring. I can't believe how boring this is.

Like I built it up in my mind that this is going to be like a big rush. And I was just like, didn't get high. No, I remember because there's like a second little pole, like the first little shoot comes out and you feel it. Yeah. And but it's not and i thought that was it and so i was like oh something must be going wrong yeah i i guess something went wrong and i guess i'm gonna die right now and i remember just like looking down at this i was just like very indifferent about it at the time um and i remember looking down at this house that we were like right on top of and i was

like man i'm just gonna like fly through this guy's roof and end up in his i remember just like giggling to myself that i'm just gonna crash into his lip he's just sitting there watching tv yeah and unfortunately i'm about to be hurling through. That's what you're thinking. You're worried about that guy, not you. It's going to be a bad day for that guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I value life more than I used to now. Oh, good. Yeah, yeah.

Well, what happened when the second shoot came? Did you feel the rush then? Then I was like, this is uncomfortable now because it's a nice view and everything, but now I got this guy just like breathing. Oh, he's strapped to you, right? Yeah, and I don't mind that as much, but it's so uncomfortable. The harness is like, it's very, it hurts.

Yeah, I forgot you have to do it in tandem. It hurts your balls? It hurts your balls quite a bit. Oh. So that wasn't for you? I don't care for that part. Yeah. Now you just jump off small buildings?

Yeah, yeah. I broke my feet a couple years Don't care for that part. Now you just jump off small buildings? Yeah, yeah. I broke my feet a couple years ago. I remember that happening. So now you're running around blowing up mailboxes. Are you failing out of school and everything? Yeah. I mean, I was always just naturally, especially, I mean, I was always like a C student. In math class, I could teach math.

I always got straight A's. I was always amazing at math. I never always like a C student. In math class, I'd get, like, I could teach math. I always got straight A's. I was always amazing at math. I never had to pay any attention. I would be sleeping through class, and they'd wake me up, and I could solve every. Yeah. Still? Yeah, I know math pretty well still. I mean, I'm a science guy. I mean, I can do some calculus and stuff.

That's about where I stopped in high school, so I didn't pursue it after that. But yeah, I mean, I'm still naturally drawn to like Sudoku and Mathduku and those kinds of things. So when did the drugs kick in? What were the drugs? 15 is when I started smoking weed, and that was like not a big deal. Right, sure. I still don't think weeds i mean now i just think weeds are kind of a boring drug really um but that was life-changing for me yeah because

before that it was like vandalism and and one of the main things i do for fun is i'd go to the mall and like smart off to people or like run around like see how fast I could run around and like almost bump into people and just like you know it's so embarrassing small town shit buddy yeah and I remember after the first time I smoked weed I was like well I guess I don't have to go to the mall anymore that's over it's just such a relief everything looks different now yeah and um i i mean i really took to it i mean my first time that i was high i laughed for like five hours straight and and i mean it was like that for me the first several times. And then it was, went from weekend warrior to daily doser. And, and it was, it was finally, and then I was starting to, I was always very insecure

and, and didn't, I always wanted to be more popular than I was. And I wanted to fit in with the cool kids and I never did. And I was, and also that was another thing with getting into weed and stuff is like oh now i have like an in with the cool kids now you've got a built-in group yeah you're part of a demographic you're part of a clique right and so i started dealing weed like shortly after that that was quick yeah it didn't take me long i'll buy i'll buy my friends yeah it was it was like well at first it was like well i can save money by buying a quarter instead of an eighth well a half is so much more it's so much cheaper

than an ounce is cheaper and then it's like well since i have this ounce now people are asking me for weed and so i can sell it to my friends and it all just that all started so what you'd buy it from a guy in large quantity and then just yeah you had a guy good yeah i mean i was not uh i was not a successful drug dealer by any means but but i made enough to cover what i smoked yeah it's like so you were one of those guys i guess we're all like that a little bit because i was thinking about that the other day i keep getting waves of my childhood and and sort of you know what we would do or try to do just to hang out with fucking people i know it's just like you can't explain it like you just feel outside of everything you know and then you know i guess you did all your weird

shit but i was always uncomfortable and you know i could make people laugh i knew that yeah but i always felt like you know like i guess it insecurity, but like you just weren't like you just didn't fit in with anybody. Yeah. Fucking worst. That's the way I felt. I still kind of feel like that every time I like, you know, I it's not so much make an effort. But like, you know, just making conversation, there's part of my brain going like, I don't know, I would never be talking to these people because they don't want why would they want to talk to me? And it just it's still there. The self-consciousness of it yeah yeah absolutely i mean i one thing that helped me was when i got into comedy in boston years ago that's where i started um and i started becoming popular in the boston comedy scene and having all these friends well they were all misfits so you got all this like that was the best thing about comedy it's oh, here's a bunch of other freaky, uncomfortable people.

Right. You know, self-involved. But if you're just funny and you impress them, they're going to respect you. Yeah. And then you can stay out and drink all night and talk. But I remember thinking, I also remember thinking, man, I have been beating myself up all my life for not being popular enough. And this is what popularity is. This is like what popularity feels like.

It didn't change anything for me. You know, it was not a big idea. You're about to plummet into a guy's home and you're like, all right. And then you finally get accepted by people. Like, no, that was kind of disappointing. I find life to be very underwhelming i think that's been a big part of my life where i feel like life has been kind of oversold to me

i really believe that well they that they you know that's part of civilization they have to oversell it because they can't have everyone walking around going what's the point i'm going to take myself out or take a few people out. I mean, you know. Yeah, yeah. But you didn't buy into the religion thing, though. That was never any solace or had no redemptive quality. Just the opposite.

It drove me crazy because I thought at first when I was real young, I thought because around like four or even five, I was like, huh, I'm having a very hard time understanding this like making the jump the leap of faith making it add up to me but i mean i guess i i was probably a believer ish at the time as i was so young and this is what my parents told me take it for granted you're sort of like yeah i believe in jesus and uh it just wasn't it was shortly after that that i started questioning more and more and then i i made up my mind like between fourth and fifth grade between like making the transition from elementary school to middle school i was like no this is absolutely wrong and but

everyone that i knew believed in it i didn't know that there was anyone i didn't know there's such a thing as agnostic or atheist or anything like that i just thought every single person in the world believed this and so you're a long time i was like i must be crazy i guess i'm just crazy and then after a while i was like oh everyone else is crazy right and then it took me a long time to like and i don't think that anymore but that that was just kind of the transition of of my psychology and so it just fucked with me so much but you were a church so rebellious right yeah but you're like a church every sunday guy oh yeah and then um that was my wisconsin accent i heard it didn't hide at that time

usually i can't even hear my own people are always like you have such a unique voice oh yeah i heard it that time i hear it with my mom my brother and i make her talk about fire go once in a while for fun just to hear you just because yeah she she goes oh well you know bob and mary beth they were going on and on about how good this movie was and finally watched it and i was just i didn't see it was so funny i mean who even talks like that but i never hear it myself i did just there so um yeah i went to wednesday um ccd it was called um which is is basically like sunday school yeah but on wednesday nights after school yeah we did that jews did that yeah um and uh i just i didn't handle it very well that that was when i was i i got in a lot of trouble in there.

I was real smart off. Yeah, that's where you learn how to be an asshole and funny because the stakes are lower. Yeah. And the person teaching is just that lady that you see every week. Yeah. On Sundays, like someone's mom. You don't get grades.

This isn't affecting my future in any way. I was a fucking terror, man. Yeah. And you're already pissed off at any way. I was a fucking terror, man. Yeah. And you're already pissed off at your parents and you're fucking off. And it's just like a free pass to try to make a grown-up cry. Yeah. That's what it was for me. That's exactly what it was.

I mean, I look back on my childhood. I'm like, God, I was such an asshole. I hope I'm less than an asshole now did you have fire and brimstone no no no i didn't i mean on it i look at what other people had and i'm like well what was i so angry like tate tate's dad the the minister yeah crazy yeah i mean so when did the like so because now you're we're going to work up to the hallucinogenics because it seems like you were sort of a born again hallucinogenic guy in the sense that it didn't, it's recent. Well, not so much.

I mean, there's a few things. One, I started doing psychedelics shortly after I started smoking weed. So when you were 15? It took me years to start taking to alcohol. I didn't like alcohol the first several times that I had it. So you took psychedelics like acid in high school? Yeah, yeah. When I was like 15, 16, I did mushrooms for the first time

and then acid shortly after, and I loved it. I always loved it. And I wonder what kind of a douchebag i would be today had i never done a psychedelic because it really it really got me looking at myself from a different angle and looking at life from a lot of different angles that early yeah absolutely i mean at first it was just like you got a drug i'll fortunately so no one ever gave me like heroin or meth or anything like that but i was like you got a drug i'll do it whatever whatever my parents in school tells me not to do i am up for it well it's good though because like now in those towns like that heroines

everywhere it just wasn't yet yeah yeah exactly i lucked out and um and so i was taking psychedelics like woo let's party this will be crazy and that's a good attitude i never had that attitude i was always sort of like what's gonna happen yeah you know but like you were just took to it right away because you love that adrenaline shit and there's a lot of adrenaline involved in the ups and downs of a trip yeah there really is you're like here we go yeah and i i just handle it really really well Way better than a lot of people. I definitely don't advocate for it. They're not for everybody at all. Right.

And a lot of people I've seen people freak out and everything like that. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of it is a misconception and misinterpreting what is supposed to come. Because to me, it's like a especially in my adult life, a meditative therapeutic aid. But but I also once I started. meditative therapeutic aid but but i also once i started so i was always doing psychedelics until i got like my first serious girlfriend and then i i was for about 12 years i was in a series of long-term relationships and every girlfriend that i had kind of like poo-pooed my psychedelic and that's when you turned to booze and then i I was drinking. No, I was drinking booze from the age of like 19.

I started finally. I was like, oh, I can talk to strangers if I drink this stuff, this ability that I've never had before. And sure, normally when I do it this drunk, I'm going to make a complete fool out of myself but at least my mouth is opening and i'm not just shriveling in fear and and that's when i i really latched on to alcohol around those like college years even though i didn't go to college and that's when i phased out of smoking weed which i mean said, I still, I find weed to be pretty boring.

So wait, so you graduate high school? Did you end up doing that? Barely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then what happened? And then I, so the plan was to graduate high school, get the hell out of there, move, become a famous stand-up comedian.

Did you try doing comedy in high school? No, I didn't know how i didn't know where to start what made you want to do comedy of who when i was like nine or ten years old i had a i had a friend uh who was like we were playing video games yeah and he started laughing at i was like making him laugh a bunch and he's like you should be a stand-up comic i didn't even know what that was and he explained that someone that stands up in front of a crowd of people and makes them laugh and i was like yeah yeah that's exactly did you watch comedy in high school did you like um in high school i did yeah um i didn't know i'd never seen stand-up at that time like nine or ten but once i was once i was a little older and had

less restrictions as far as what tv i could watch I watched all the stand-up I possibly could. I didn't care if I liked it or if it was my cup of tea or not. I watched between the ages of 14 and the time I got my Comedy Central Presents

which was, I don't know, seven years ago or something like that. I watched every single bit of stand-up that had ever been on Comedy Central. I would set the DVR any time there was stand-up on. I didn't watch other shows. I just watched stand-up. You had favorites? Every day.

Yeah, I did. I mean, you, of course. Oh, thank you. That's really nice. I was actually a big fan of yours before. We met in 2007 when I won this award and whatnot, and you were super supportive of me. Where was that at again?

In Aspen. Oh, yeah. That was the first time I had the thing. It was on your podcast. And I remember liking Zach Galifianakis. Oh, early on, before Comedy Central, I would say Stephen Wright and Emo Phillips had an effect on me. And when I started, I was definitely more of an absurdist comedian.

I was also terrified, too. So I guess Stephen Wright was like he had a lot of stage fright starting out, and that kind of led into that character a little bit. Well, it's interesting about those guys that can do that well, and Zach a little too early on, is that they really create almost their own time zone, their own reality. They hold the stage in such a different way

that immediately you're not in a reality that you would ever think you'd be in. Yeah. Yeah. And I think part of it was too that i watched so much stand-up that they stood out anyone right that was different like paul f tompkins or something like that i remember being like whoa this is different and yeah um because there is a patter to it yeah if you watch a lot of it there is sort of a continuation of tone

yeah and then when someone shifts, you're like, what? Yeah. And I, I mean, and you know, you do it long enough and you pick up all the tricks and not all the tricks,

but many of them. Yeah. Without even knowing it. Yeah. Like I watched an old tape of myself where I never fucking thought I did it in my life. I would never have thought I did it in my life, but it was like 19, late eighties.

And I'm doing some shitty TV spot for a comedy club in New Jersey, and I'm doing that repetition of setting up the premise. Hey, people drive? Who drives? We all drive. You know, that weird kind of hammering of drugs. Who does the drugs? Well, I mean, it's not just him,

because that was before him. It's just a weird road thing of just sort of like, huh, who likes the, what have you? And I'm like, when did I do that? Like, I didn't even know who that guy was.

I was like a mathematician when I started comedy. I was like, rule of three. I had all of my jokes timed to the second. There needs to be this number of laughs in a minute.

Really? Yeah, absolutely. Did you hit it? I sucked for like two months, and then I was pretty good after that. That's not bad, two months. That's interesting. I did really well.

Where did you hear about the rule of threes and fives? I actually took a, I think I read some books. I haven't took a stand-up class. With who? Not Rick Jenkins. Rick Jenkins told me about it. read some books i think i i haven't took a stand-up class yeah and uh with who rick jenkins or not not rick jenkins rick jenkins told me about it rich gustis sure i know rich gustis and he started i started with him back in boston it was just nice to have someone be like hey move the mic stand when you get on stage or just tell me where the open mics were or just to have someone to bounce my idea off of before i said

how'd you end up in boston i had no idea what i was doing i was like i'm gonna move to new york or la didn't have any money didn't know what to do was was um was just worried about you know i'd never really been outside my hometown and and and when it was always that's what i was gonna do but when i when it came time to do it i would get very nervous and like oh i it was always that's what i was gonna do but when i when it came time to do it i would get very nervous and like oh i should i'd make up excuses i should save up some money or you know whatever and i had a friend that moved to boston i was like well i can go with a friend that's kind of safer to be with a buddy and then i can i'll shoot down to new york and figure it out and probably a year later i'll move down to new york was kind of what i was thinking in my head plan and i had no i got to boston i looked up comedy clubs in the yellow pages

and called up comedy club comedy connection nicks yeah dardy's comedy vault it was exactly that and the comedy studio i called up those four clubs and uh and rick jenkins happened to live like two blocks from me or something like that or at least jenkins the guy who created the studio yeah my place was right on his way on his walk to the studio and so he dropped off this packet with all this information and really like a like a like a printed package like a package that you know i think it was i don't i don't remember very clearly but i think it was like a lot of stuff where as a club owner that a lot of new comics go to is probably just a bunch of pain in the ass questions that you get sick of answering all right so he just typed them all up and printed it out and included like a couple free tickets to shows

and stuff and he's like well why don't you come and check out a free show a few shows for free and then if you're still interested and and give you a little stage time. I remember my first time I did it. It was going okay. Well, who'd you go when you went to see the people there your first night out? Who were the guys? I don't even remember.

Really? Yeah. Yeah, I don't remember at all. What year are we talking? Oh, I remember Eric Andre was there. The first time that I went on, Eric Andre was there, and I was like, wow, this dude Eric Andre was there. The first time that I went on, Eric Andre was there, and I was like, wow, this dude is a lunatic.

Well, because he was going to Berklee School of Music at the time, I think. Yeah, yeah, that sounds right. I remember we were talking in the back, and I was like, I'm about to go on stage for the first time, and he was really, really new as well. And I was worried because my stuff was, I was an absurdist and i was also like into like more shock value ish kind of stuff when um uh before i'd started and i was worried about it and then eric andre got up and did his thing and i was like oh well i guess i don't have

to worry about offending anybody after that yeah and um and then and I remember afterwards Rick Jenkins was like well this isn't really a place to like this isn't an open mic you know there's paying customers and stuff so maybe you should take a class and well so you went up after Eric Andre did it go all right it was fine and then I had I had this piece of material that required me reading something. Like, I printed off the internet. It was something really stupid. It was like some definition of hemorrhoids or something. I don't remember what.

And I couldn't find the paper. And then, like, I panicked. And I still look back. It's like, oh, no. I don't have my butthole joke. Now what am I going to do it's a horrible feeling though you know in those first days where you're just trying to get through five fucking minutes yeah yeah and then if a major wrench gets thrown into it it's like oh god but it was like

it didn't matter that it didn't go well i didn't really expect it to go that well i was like it's my first time i don't know what i'm doing i'm gonna need to figure this out that's good and uh and i remember being terrified i had horrible stage fright every time before my name was going to be called for like the first two months i remember being like i'm just gonna run i'm just gonna leave oh how about waiting for your next spot that those weeks where you're like yeah yeah yeah i i mean i just couldn't i couldn't handle it very well and so um i mean just just the fact that i got on stage was just and you just kept chipping away for me yeah so you hang out there were you doing the one-nighters and stuff around new england or yeah i loved boston for me and where i think a lot of people in boston didn't really

take advantage of the scene was people would either do just one-nighters, or they'd just do the comedy studio. Same thing. The club or whatever. It was like that when I was here. And no one was getting out of their comfort zone. And I was always kind of like a hybrid-ish comic. Me too.

Because I had this absurdist stuff, but I also had jokes about doing construction and stuff like that. Yeah, you got to get out there and do the gigs. And blue-collar stuff. And so i did everything yeah i did everything i could i stayed in boston way longer than most people would have because i caught breaks and well you fly out to la or you fly to or go down to new york yeah i was just interested in being a road guy even once i started getting late nights but i i remember i was doing what was the first late night spot? Conan? Yeah, Conan. After I did that HBO Aspen thing,

I won an award for best new comic. Back when you were still at NBC in New York? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the Conan bookers at the time saw me there and had me on. I was on a bus. I was on the Fung Wah bus. Oh, the Boston, New York bus?

For people that don't know, it's like a $15 bus to go from Boston to New York and the shocks on it don't work. I'm not sure they're a business anymore. Was it South Station? Did it go from South Station? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very, very shady kind of.

And you don't know if they were running drugs or what was going on. I remember that. I never took it, but I remember hearing about it. And it's it's around the area it's something a lot of people make fun of um but i was on the bus i got a call um from doug edley said the conan bookers who frank saw me in uh in aspen and was interested in maybe booking me um Um, cause I just won this award. So a few different late night spots were, and I was like, well, Conan was the one that I, I would watch because they used to show it on comedy central during the day. Yeah. And I worked third shift

in a, in a factory. And so that was the late night show that I could watch. Where was this? Where were you working in a factory? Arcadia, Wisconsin, right out about 45 minutes outside my hometown for about four years. Making what? Furniture. Oh, okay. Yeah. Making furniture, making parts.

I was like a part carrier. So I drove like a pallet mover and I don't even remember the name of it now. Thank goodness. And a forklift around a little bit and that kind of stuff and running machines, making parts, sometimes doing assembly uh making parts sometimes doing assembly line stuff sometimes doing shipping stuff um and um it was it was miserable but it also taught me a lot of discipline yeah i can i can sit and write like forever no problem and a lot of people can't do that that's true and and you can also drive a forklift apparently yeah and i can drive a forklift but just just the kind of letting your mind go into the monotony and just

getting and just grinding it out and and getting yourself okay mentally with just over and over again doing the same repetitive monotonous action that will drive most people insane but at least if you're doing doing that in in service of your creativity absolutely there's some payoff yeah so you're on this bus and you get conan and they they call he's like well why don't you call frank and and see what um uh you know see what he has to say and i called him and he is like he's like do you have um do you have a late night set together that you can send me can you send me like a tape or something like that or or um put something on youtube and i was like oh i i don't have my computer with me i'm on this bus in new york and like can you email me i like i don't know can i email you in like a

couple days and they were just like well do you just know what you would want to do and i was like yeah i guess and they're like well can you just do it for us over the phone sure yeah i've done a lot of phone sets with frank smiley so weird so i'm like going through a setup and then I'm like, so now here's where the audience gets really uncomfortable. And then like explaining what the reaction of the crowd will be during. And then Frank goes, what else you got? Yeah. I mean, honestly, I did my five minutes and he was like, well, if you think that's five minutes, you want to be on next Monday?

And I was like, okay. And I went out and I really, my my first set I kind of knocked it out of the park and then they had me they had me on I remember I sent him a DVD um shortly after that and they called me one day and they were like um they were like we there was a problem with your DVD it didn't it only played like the first three minutes. Yeah. And I was like, oh, I'm sorry. I'll send you another one. And they're like, well, we really liked the first three minutes, so you want to be on again next Thursday or whatever?

It was like a week from now. I'm like, okay. And they were super nice. How many times did you do it? I've done it five times now. Yeah. Do you think that was really the beginning of your kind of wave? Yeah. times now yeah and do you think that was really the beginning of your kind of wave yeah i mean i because i got from my first conan set after the time i won that award in aspen i got eight tv

appearances in a year and so i was getting comedy central stuff i did the show for bbc i think i did jimmy kimmel around that time i did a thing for showtime and I was just in my mind I was just like well I guess I'm just gonna be the most famous comedian ever like this is where my trajectory is going and you start headlining in that time oh yeah like right away I started headlining and then I learned a lot yeah headlining I was like you can't just I, this is fine for like a 25, 30 minute set, but 45 minutes an hour, people will pick up on your, you can be as odd as you want. But if you have the same kind of oddness to your structures, people will pick up on it. It's not surprising anymore. And so I started telling a few more stories here and there and doing what I could to kind of get out of my comfort zone and expand what I was doing.

And you got a girlfriend at this point? Yeah, I'm in a serious relationship, very much in love. Living down in Malibu yet? No, this was not for years and years later. This was, I was still in Boston at this time. I lived in Austin for a couple years before Malibu. And I did my half hour Comedy Central Presents. And I killed it on that.

Went really well. And then I was kind of getting together an hour to do. And then I looked at the hour and I was like, this is just garbage. I hate this. How's the drinking at this point uh pretty bad you know it was i mean it wasn't like you know it was pretty bad i think most people would say it was pretty bad right to me it's funny because being in from wisconsin it was just like i remember when i first moved to boston people are like what the hell who drinks like and i was like oh this is just what i'm used to drinking like this is what everyone I know this is how we drink yeah and um

but but the blackouts were coming more often I I was also like I just got cocky you know I was taking it for granted I wasn't as disciplined I wasn't writing as much or as well and and um and I was still like putting out a new hour each year as far as like every time i went back to a new club i had a new act but i was never i i started feeling very unsatisfied with what i was doing right and that's when i started to have and i and right around that time too i was like i started feeling very trapped in this relationship at the time where i didn't she was talking about wanting to buy a house and like maybe get married sometime and I had no interest in any of that I was like

I was just starting to do international work and that's just like my dreams are coming true and and I that's what I wanted to focus on I didn't I didn't care about having a house or being married. I don't have interest in marriage or kids. And, um, and, and so I kind of had like a bit of a breakdown and it wasn't, it wasn't bad, but just my drinking got worse. My material, I was really unhappy with and, and my career started plateauing and the work started drying up a little more yeah and I made a very big change in my career I also decided that I wanted to talk about more interesting things because when I started like doing like uh like I was I could do like this really edgy stuff and it was like a little bit more novel at the time than what it is now I mean because Doug Stanhope was a

guy who had burned every bridge and wasn't like a household name. And Louis C.K. wasn't a household name. I caught breaks before Anthony Jeselnik was. And now, skip to these many years later, now all these guys are pretty well known. They're doing this better than I am. Right. And they're known for it.

And so it kind of made me feel, I'm like, well, where's my place in this? I don't think I can do it better than these guys are. And I think there's already like enough. They already have the corner. Market corner. The market corner. And I was always really doing international stuff.

Everyone internationally has these theme shows. Right. And puts together and does these festivals. Did you do Edinburgh? I did a few years ago. And it went, i would say bad but i i it was a good learning experience and i i got like one good review in the scotsman that's worth using for the next time around yeah but that's like yeah that commitment of like gotta keep coming back and i'm like well i don't know yeah once is enough for me i think

with this new show i'm doing i think it would be perfect for it and i think that it would be better but i i did not like the experience the first time around but every time i'm like that i always had this mentality even like shitty clubs there's so few clubs that i at the time when i started out wouldn't go back to even if i bombed i'd be like i want go back there. I want to get them next time. Oh, really? I don't have that anymore. They didn't like me, that's fine. I didn't like them either. But at the time, I was very driven by that.

All right, so you got cocky. You had this realization. There's a lot of guys doing what you do. You're in this relationship that you're not happy in. You're drinking too much. You went to Europe and you realized they want theme shows. And how does it all fall apart you're having a breakdown i i realized that so i started writing my manager and agent they were on me to do um like tv shows and i which at the time i had no interest in i remember when i first caught my breaks they'd bring me into all these like tv

general meetings and stuff general meetings and and they'd be like so what do you want to do I like being a stand-up on the road and they'd be like okay well nice talking to you I look back on it it's like a lot of ways to like people people would die for these opportunities yeah they're used to it um but but like so many comics would wish that they could yeah yeah so when did the accident happen? So this was so I started doing science themed things. Yeah. I started getting it.

I always read science. I mean, I'd be blackout drunk and I'd be like reading a physics book after bar time, which is probably why I don't remember physics very well. Well, I started, I got in this new relationship when I moved to Malibu and I was looking to put together maybe some TV show at the time. About science? Yeah, I wanted to do like a science themed thing. At first it was going to be physics and it wasn't working out. I was experimenting with things and it was hard to make physics funny. My girlfriend, my new girlfriend smoked more weed than normal. so I smoking more weed than I was used to and we

were watching a lot of Animal Planet and so I was writing a lot of like relationship jokes because I'd just gone through this really bad breakup and was in this new exciting relationship and having all sorts of fun sex and blah blah blah and then also writing a lot of silly animal

jokes at the same time and then they just kind of started blending together and i was like maybe i'll make like a tv show about the science of sex or something like that which i later abandoned and i felt like there's too many people kind of doing something like that um but so i started just looking into it and i and got me into like evolutionary psychology and biology, which just changed the whole way that I looked at the world. And I want to set up something and then keep on talking about it and keep on building on it and that's when i started doing theme shows my first whack at it was i had a netflix special mating season which to be honest i'm not terribly happy with yeah because it's like my first whack at trying to figure it out and i wish i would have done more

challenging material which i had i just selected more accessible material because to me the idea of like if i can get people that have no interest in hearing about science to hear a little bit about evolution i think that would be awesome because i was doing shows in like texas where i'd have some cowboy come up and be like man i never thought i'd laugh at a science joke and i was like oh man finally because i've been such an angry atheist my whole life. And my jokes before that were like, here's why religion is stupid. And so now I had this new take on like,

here's this interesting thing that you might not know about. And so that's what I did with mating season. And it's not that there weren't jokes on it that I wasn't ultimately, that I still don't think are funny. It's just like wasn't because I lacked confidence at the time and that sort of thing. And actually and so then I started figuring it out. I wrote this whole act about the the idea of negative emotions and how they evolved and where they come from and why they're important. And it was going pretty well.

And then I broke both my feet hiking. And I had to, and both my heels broke. And by the way, at the same time, I had started reaching out to scientists and getting to know scientists because I was like, maybe I'll put together a show in LA. I don't know what I'm doing with this. And decided I was going to make a podcast because I was having all these lunches with interesting people. And I helped teach a class at UCLA one time. And I was just having my mind blown by these new ideas. And I was like, if I would have recorded this conversation, people would love this. And then right, it was like.

How often do you do the podcast? It's weekly. What's it called again? It's called Here here we are yeah and go to here we are podcast.com it's like evolutionary psychology biology behavioral economics neuroscience kind of all all life stuff so i stay away from like physics and like chemistry anything that's like very very small right doesn't really apply to day-to-day how do you break both heels for hiking so um a buddy of mine we were hiking um long story short he wanted to jump off this thing that was too high i was in the best shape of my life because i had i had now at this point been sober for close to three years i think and i wasn't counting days i didn't go go to AA or anything like that. But it was close to three years. And I rock climbing like crazy.

I've never been fit in my entire life except for like this one year. And so I had just like this Superman complex. I just thought I could do it. And like I've explained, I'm a crazy adrenaline junkie. And I And I thought, I knew this was too high, and my buddy wanted to do it, and I was like, you know, all right. I think I can maybe make, maybe I'll break a heel is what I thought. Because I've broken a heel before. I did it in high school, jumping off of a houseboat onto a dock, and it just wasn't

that big of a deal. It was just a little chip, had to walk on my toes a little more. Yeah. And it wasn't, it was like a couple months. It was uncomfortable. Not that big of a deal. And I was like, you know, worst case scenario, I'll do that again. But I love pushing it.

I love just pushing myself as much as I can. And it's gotten me in so much trouble in my life with the law and everything else. But I jumped off this thing that was too high. And one of my heels exploded. I heard it happen. I heard it. I heard the sound shoot through my body. This is with all listeners.

And then people that know me are like, God, is he talking about his fucking feet again? Because I talk about it on the podcast all the time. And really really it's not that big of a deal he broke both of them like that yeah yeah at the same time they both exploded no no no no one one was not a big deal at all one was just a little chip and right and it was it sucked but it was by comparison it was it felt like so what did you have to get a new heel put in um they they put uh it's on the the cover of my album is an x-ray of my foot actually uh because i made an album about it called my big break yeah talk about so it fit

really well into the negative emotion thing that i was putting oh that's good um and and so yeah i needed a plate and yeah i needed some new bits well it's what I learned from it was that because the act was going pretty well, but this is like, here's a fun science thing and then jokes about it. But people don't necessarily attach to that. Right. And then once I had something to make it personal, that's when people really started. Or maybe they just felt sorry for me because I was on crutches on stage or whatever. But it really felt like people started connecting more

once I had something personal. And I never really liked doing personal stuff that much unless it was outrageous. So it got you more comfortable in that. And I spent three months in my parents' basement because I couldn't care for myself. My place in Malibu had 50 steps and there was just no way I could get up with both my feet broken

with trying to get groceries and stuff like that. What happened to the girl? We had broke up right before I broke my feet. She got out just in time. We're still good friends, actually. Yeah, we had broken up just before. We were actually still living together at the time. We were going to ride out our lease because we were actually great friends.

We just realized as a couple, we just fought every day. We were very passionate. Great sex, horrible fights. Yeah, I know that one. Yeah, yeah. And so when that happened, and then just like didn't give a fuck anymore, which I needed because the road will make you like when I started, I didn't give a fuck if I offended or walked a couple of people. And it's like as long as I was getting laughs and like people were as long as I was killing, I didn't care. And then you get on the road and and then you get those comment cards,

and people, you make bookers nervous, and you have a couple bad nights, and the work starts drying up, and it just made me very safe. Yeah. And when I broke my feet, it just kind of made me reanalyze my life a little bit. And I was like, I'm going to do exactly what I want to do. Yeah. And I thought my last album, it didn't catch on or gain any popularity or anything, but I still, to this day, I thought my last album it didn't it didn't like catch on or gain any popularity or anything but I still to this day I think it's a fantastic album I thought I thought

it was my best my big break yeah um and and I was like okay I have I know how to do this now and then what happened with the act that I'm doing now which is about psychedelics is was just it just happened very naturally all that happened was people would have me on their podcast to talk about breaking my feet and they'd be like what were you doing in sedona and i'd say well i was going there to do ayahuasca for the first time when how'd you get from breaking feet to sedona um sedona's where i broke my feet. And I was going to Sedona to do ayahuasca, but before I got to do that, I broke my feet. And so then they're like, what's that? And then I explained that I'd been doing DMT

and smoking a lot of DMT and stuff. And some of my ideas, I use it to develop new kind of neuroscience ideas that I'm tinkering with and trying to run by people. And DMT is a fast acting? Very fast acting. and neuroscience ideas that I'm tinkering with and trying to run by people. DMT is fast acting? Very fast acting. You smoke it, and you feel it within seconds.

And it lasts for about 10 minutes, and it's the most intense experience that you'll ever have. Even as someone who is bored by skydiving, I do DMT sometimes, and I'm like, that was too much that was that was a little intense why what happened it's you go do it what seems like i believe it's the inner workings of your mind a lot of people call it the spirit molecule because you go to often what seems like a completely different world and there's like beings they're talking to you and like alien like things and like buildings talking to you and stuff you smoke it and it's my there talking to you, and alien-like things, and buildings talking to you and stuff.

You smoke it, and my first time I smoked it, the guy, I was like, I was like, sure, if it's a psychedelic, I'm down for it, whatever. I was a little nervous, but the dude was really smart.

He was a computer programmer. His wife, or his lady at the time, was a neuroscientist. I was like, oh, these are bright people. They're not like crackheads, or burnouts, or anything like that. programmer his wife was or his lady at the time was a was a neuroscientist yeah it's like oh these are bright people they're not like crackheads or right you know burnouts or anything like that yeah like dreaded hippies that you know they're not any of that and um and so i went he's like the first hit you're gonna feel weird the second hit is like a crazy intense mushroom trip like that's when most people bail they can't handle it don't bail you

have to keep going you have to get that third hit you like break through this space and i was like yeah whatever with the build-up you know yeah and this is like everyone builds up life for me like yeah yeah yeah sure just disappointing yeah it's always disappointing i had that first hit right away i was like oh i'm turning into a cartoon that's weird yeah i had that second hit and then everything just started shaking and fucking going crazy and i was like oh no i've made a horrible decision like i've just done every drug that there is like all at the same time is what like I think I'm going to die. Yeah. And then he saw my face and he's like, one more

and I'm filling up this bong and then I just remember the sense of peace washes over me and then everything, everything I've ever known, everything, all of this perception

just goes, gone. Yeah. And then it's just me in this bong in space brought the bong with me. Nothing else. Just me and this bong in space. Brought the bong with me. Nothing else. Just me and the bong.

There wasn't stars or planets or anything. It was just a black, empty void. And then the smoke inside the bong turns into electricity. And the electricity turns into codes. And I'm like, this is going to be so strange. And then I smoked all those codes up and then I shot through this tunnel of fractals and lights and impossible colors

and then I, impossible colors is like a cliche thing in the psychedelic community. Actually, yeah, I'm feeling very trite right now. And then I landed in this like hologram computer chip city made out of lights. And it was talking to me. And I knew exactly what I was saying. It was like thoughts without words. Because it's, in my mind, what I think that it is.

It's just the non-conscious world. And it's kind of like the movie Inside Out. And so this guy was like, welcome! And I'm like, what the fuck? And he's and and so this guy's like welcome i'm like what the fuck and he's like so happy to see you i'm like okay i'm like i'm a shane i'm on a couch i just smoked dmt they said it only lasts for 10 minutes okay i'll be okay and and this is like no no no pay attention pay attention don't get overwhelmed and i like, this is how I talk. And it starts building these buildings. I'm like, OK, all this stuff is very difficult.

It's like it's like, now, do you understand? I'm like, I guess. And then I was like, do you really want to see something like it's going to show me the meaning of life or whatever? And I was like, OK. And then I was like, look over here. And then I looked and there was that weird cartoon cat from Alice in Wonderland. Yeah, yeah. Cheshire cat. Yeah, yeah. And just laughing at me.

And I looked back like, what the fuck? And he's like, I'm just fucking with you. And that was it. And I was just 100% back to normal. As clear-headed as I've ever been in my entire life going what the fuck was that and i need to try that again sometime not right away not right away yeah it took me it's still it's it's hard to it's hard to build up the courage every time i've probably done it like 80 90 times now but it's oh in the last three years I'd say

and every time it's like oh can I I don't know if I can do and is it different every time or do you go back to some of the same places sometimes I go back to the same I have like four different storylines yeah usually that I go back to and then sometimes it throws me for a loop and it's completely different but there's like this purple woman that I see all the time. That's the crazy one because it's just like other people see her and stuff. And it's really strange. And then there's just this one that's these weird- What do you mean other people see her?

So the craziest thing that happened, so I would do it and like this crazy thing would happen, and I'd see this and then I i kind of just start reading a lot and i'd just start reading neuroscience and just figure out like okay how could the brain be doing this yeah and just figuring out how the brain must be running simulations like i believe that right now as i'm selecting words my brain is in in milliseconds running through a number of simulations as to which words i should pick and how they'll be received by you or in the audience and then it's deciding very quickly right and and and this especially happens in like high salient moments

like if you if you break your feet you need to figure out if you need to get to the hospital take a helicopter you know what are you going to know, stuff like that. This really comes on and it runs all these simulations and you can kind of see them clear. And so I was just kind of developing kind of some interesting ideas and sometimes bouncing them off. If I had an aerial scientist on my show afterwards, if they seemed cool, I'd be like, hey, I have this idea. But and and then so the craziest thing happened. Do they validate it? Sometimes. A lot of times they're like, that's interesting.

Right. I'm going to steal that. Yeah. I mean, I don't want to blow up anyone's spot, but I've talked to a neuroscientist or two that's like, yeah, I smoked DMT in college. And that's why I'm a neuroscientist now. in college and that's why i'm a neuroscientist now and and um i so everything was very and and i still think there's explanations for the purple woman but this is what happened i did um it was about time 20 and as you get kind of deeper and deeper each time at first it's just like usually like colorful patterns and stuff most people don don't talk to anyone or say anything.

And at first, it's kind of like you're watching a movie. And then after a while, it wraps around in this panoramic. And then after a while, it becomes you and you are it. And it's everything. And it's this weird flat pattern. It's like this imperceivable dimension. It's very difficult to articulate um but i had one day i was i was uh i went to this buddy's house where i first did it and he gave it to me and afterwards he played me this song and afterwards i was like he's like how'd you like the song and i was like well it was good it was a good trip i i just i wish you would have played

one without words because i can't tell the difference between like what i'm hallucinating and what is in the music and he's like oh there's no words in that song and i was like oh okay because then i remembered what the words were. It was like, this is existence. This is everything. And I was like, well, that's DMT for you. It's crazy. I don't really put a lot of stock in it. I don't put a lot of stock in this perception.

I don't put a lot of stock in that perception. I say question everything. Keep evaluating. And so then we went to dinner. And he's like, well well you can try again tonight if you want and so i i smoked it again and this time i went in and there's like me and this other guy it was like me in another dimension or something like that and we're kind of trying to figure out how to how to like connect these two worlds or how this is happening how we're able to communicate

and then after that there was just this weird carnival and there's this purple woman it seems like i knew her for lifetimes like millions of lifetimes it seemed like we it was like hey it's so good to see you again i'd never seen her before consciously but it was just like i know this woman and she's dancing and like i can dance with her if i want to but i don't have to it doesn't matter and and there's like this guy playing an organ behind her this weird carnival and the message is like well this is going to keep on happening again and again so it doesn't really matter and just you know have fun and um and that was the message i remember i got out of it and i was like you know it was weird there was this purple woman she is dancing she is wrapped in these codes there

were like these it was like a rope with like snake scales that had little codes inside of them that she was wrapped in and um i was like no it's crazy that's dmt for you that's you just see crazy shit didn't think much of it and then the next day i went and i gave it to someone for their first time someone that wasn't connected with these people i didn't't share this story with them. And at the time, I was especially careful to never put any ideas in someone's head before they do it for the first time. So I just wouldn't tell them. I just explained, you know, it's going to be intense.

You're going to see some weird stuff. I can't tell you what you're going to see. And he smoked it. And the first two minutes, he was just like, I've had too much. I've had too much. i've had too much i've had too much i've had too much and and i was i was like yeah yeah you know the first couple minutes i told you they're they're pretty intense and and as soon as i said that he'd like the smile comes on his face and

he's just like oh man they love you in here and and i was like what i was like yeah there's like this feeling of love this is what i said to him and then he's like no no no shane they love you and i was like what are you talking about and he goes there is this purple woman in here who says that she just needs you to know that she loves you. And I was like, what? And he's like, yeah, there's this carnival. And there's this purple woman in here who says she knows you really well. And you come in here all the time. And she just needs you to know that she loves you.

I'm not kidding. Bob Khazrabi. He's a comic in Austin really funny dude and I was like what did she look like and he was like you know what the strangest thing was was she had this like serpentine thing I didn't know the word

serpentine it was like a way better way of explaining exactly what it looked like that really fucked with my head man so where do you come down on that? I think that possibly, my best take at trying to figure out how the brain's doing this

is that perhaps our brains are constructed in similar ways. Like perhaps when I look at this microphone from this angle, it's triggering almost the exact same neural patterns that are triggering in your brain. When you look at this microphone at this exact same pattern. And if there's these set neural patterns that kind of make life easier to, so you don't need to figure out what a door is.

So you have this kind of flexible template. So like a robot can't look at that and be like, that's a door. It would need to be shown a picture of every door and at least rudimentary robots. They have it down a little better now. But we have these kind of flexible templates where we have this idea of like what a perfect door is in our mind or a perfect circle or a perfect square or something like that. And then it's very flexible. And that's how we're able to just look at something, be like, boom, that's a door. Like we really take it for granted processing that's happening. So if you instead artificially stimulate these areas. So instead of this being triggered by external stimulus, if it's triggered by internal stimulus, maybe you could see what your brain is perceiving rather than perceiving what you're seeing.

OK. It's just happening in reverse. That's that's my it's really confusing to me. I don't know how to. But wait, but what about the idea that not unlike a cat senses an earthquake or rain that, you know, when we're in proximity to each other's minds that, you know, maybe out of his fear that there was some other kind of communication going on that was seeking commonality with you. I'm starting to become much more open to that idea than I ever have. I mean, I'm a science guy. I talk with scientists.

I read science books. And I'm like nothing in what i've read makes a convincing argument that that is possible but i've always thought about that how do you right how do you explain some of this well yeah but that's the thing is that like you know we have these huge brains and much simpler brains are capable of not so much telepathy but but but expanding the senses to a point where they're sensitive to things that we're not aware of, but it doesn't mean we can't be sensing. Yeah. And why wouldn't that happen?

I think that possibly there might be this flat pattern that's a dimension that is running through everything. Right. That is all one thing, and we are all it. Right. Everything is it. Right. The frequency. The frequency.

Everything is it. and we are all it, and everything is it. The frequency, the frequency. And that we're kind of, like our bodies kind of bubble up in it, but it's still a part of, there is no disconnect from it. It's sort of like the Jungian thing, like a collective unconscious.

Yeah. And some other stuff. I'm starting to be much more receptive to those ideas. Uh-oh, you're gonna get mystical. I know, I know. It's going to happen. No! Full circle.

No! I'm starting to become the preacher I've always hated. That's right. You start out with science and you end up Timothy Leary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's okay i still even even if all of that's true i still think that where i can add my value is in thinking through things skeptically and critically and taking a neuroscience approach to it because there's already enough people out

there that are like there's a different dimension and there's already enough of that well no i think your your struggle or your sort of you know um growth or um sort of exploration of that the fight yeah because like you know a lot of them just sort of like just take it sort of like i was in a different place but you like you know it'd be interesting that as you continue to resist through skepticism and science that you know i can see next year's show is sort of like it's out there yeah i've applied all practical scientific skepticism to this and i know a lot of people that know this lady yeah yeah i mean and i see this lady all the time and then other people do when they're with me and stuff so that's what the show what's the show called? So it's called A Good Trip.

It used to have a better name. It used to be called This Is Your Shane on Drugs, but then everyone thought I was going to be on drugs. I thought I was going to be glorifying heroin or crack or whatever, and it's all about psychedelics. And so I talk about DMT for about the last 20 minutes. It's more of like I build toward that. I need to set need a lot of stuff

with with um i i kind of break down the history of psychedelics i talk about my experiences with them and and what where i think people are misperceiving what is often called a bad trip is actually often a difficult trip that people can learn and benefit a lot from and and um some of the neuroscience behind the studies that have been done on lsd and mushrooms and that sort of thing and then i eventually get into but really it's about perception one of the one of my favorite things that i've ever thought of and i've been able to articulate and i thought of it during a mushroom trip and like it's not this funny but at the time I was rolling around laughing about this for like 10 minutes was it was the idea of Because I started taking it too seriously

I started getting too wrapped up in in this trip and being like no this is real or whatever and I thought No, that's what we that's what our brain tricks us into doing all the time And the reason why you do it more during a trip is because it's so short and it's so salient and it's so different. Your brain just loves stuff like that and really attaches stuff like that. So I thought of this thought experiment

that always gets me out. Anytime I'm having a trip where I feel like I'm getting too into it, I think about this. It's that imagine instead there's someone whose brain was chemically like they're on LSD. They're just born this way. The world's all colorful and rainbow like, and that's just what perception is like to them. And then one day someone gives them a pill that brings them to our perception. It would seem just as bonkers and just as crazy. Oh my God, I get it now. It's like there's these things called jobs

and like entry-level positions that one can obtain. And then it's like there's these hierarchies, you know? You just show up on time each day and sure you got to step on a few toes. Oh my God, it's like there's a potential boss man inside each and every one of us. Holy shit, you know? And then you'd go back to your dumb, boring LSD reality.

Okay, Buddha, Jesus, whatever, demon clown. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that's what my takeaway from psychedelics has been. And what I hope the takeaway from the show is, is just to kind of, let's question our perceptions a little bit. It's just been this wonderful mechanism to talk about perception and consciousness because I think that a lot of us, our brains have evolved to give us a perception that isn't always in our best interest.

Right, and we take for granted. And we take for granted. Well, it sounds great. I appreciate you talking to me about this. It got me excited. It made me feel kind of trippy, and I haven't been trippy in a long time. But I will say this, as much as, you know, you're excited about this, try to stay tethered. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know.

And I'll look forward to talking to you in a year when you're dressed differently and wearing a lot of dangling things. when you're dressed differently and wearing a lot of dangling things. And you've completely shifted over to that other perception. This is one of many. I love doing themed things. I'm putting together a show about behavioral economics right now,

and I'm hoping to talk about a lot of topics in the future. This is one that's got me a lot of attention, and it's been a fun show to put together and I'm just super excited. It's now a 75 city tour, which is going to be like, it was originally going to be 30 or 40 cities and

this is the biggest thing I've ever put together and people have been coming out to these I've been packing shows for the first time in my career and people like stand in line afterwards. They want to tell me their stories they want to ask me i've never experienced anything like this that's great man yeah congratulations wonderful all right thanks for having me yeah man

that's it go see shane sounds like a compelling show sounds like you're gonna need to get your mind blown afterwards get your mind blown afterwards. Get your mind blown at the show and then go blow your mind with some stuff. Let's do some trippy jams, man. Yeah, man. Thank you. boomer lives Boomer lives! You can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats, but iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those.

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