WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 779 - Martin Landau

Episode Date: January 22, 2017

Martin Landau is an Oscar-winning actor with a lifetime of work on film, TV, and stage. But he's also one of the foremost educators on his craft. Martin takes Marc through his early days in New York City at The Actors Studio studying under Lee Strasberg alongside fellow students like Marilyn Monroe and James Dean, which led to Martin becoming a revered acting teacher in his own right. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey folks, how are you? I just wanted to take a moment here to say that you can go to WTFpod.com slash tour to check out my upcoming tour dates. Like tomorrow night, I'll be at the Ruby Diamond Concert Hall in Tallahassee, Florida. I believe that's on the campus of the big university there. I got Durham, North Carolina, Charlotte, North Carolina. I got Ridgefield, Connecticut, Portsmouth, New Hampshire, Montreal, Toronto, New Haven, Troy, New York, Burlington, Vermont, Oakland, California, Seattle, Washington, Vancouver, BC, Austin, Texas, Boulder, Colorado, Denver, Colorado, Portland, Oregon, Portland, Oregon again, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Madison, Wisconsin, Minneapolis, Minnesota, and Philly, Washington, D.C., all coming up between now and mid-May.

So go to WTFpod.com slash tour to see if you want to come, if you want to make it out, if you're around, if you have any interest. All right, let's do the show. Lock the gates! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck nicks?

What the fucksters? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome to it. Powerful weekend. Powerful weekend. Powerful weekend around the world. Today on the show, Martin Landau, the actor and acting teacher who's been around for a very long time. Many of you know him from the Ed Wood movie, Crimes and Misdemeanors early on uh mission impossible space 1999 um it's just the history

of his career but also his presence in uh the art of acting and in show business in general and what he's experienced going you know back 50 years or more, is profound and beautiful. Very sweet guy. And just a repository of amazing information about the importance of theater and art and acting and also reverence for people he's worked with going back to the People's Theater. And he's in one of my favorite

movies of all time crimes and misdemeanors uh the woody allen's masterpiece but definitely one of the best movies ever made in terms of dealing with the the human animal, dealing with morality, dealing with choices, decisions, fears, jealousy, love. I mean, it's really, that is it. It's all in there. And Martin Landau was a genius in that movie. And I was thrilled to have him. He's a young 88. I love talking to these old timers, young 88 i i love talking to these old timers you know because even yeah i'm no old timer i'm in my early 50s but i remember when uh there was less information around less outlets around uh less distractions around and it was uh it's it's somewhat a little a little easier to find your heart and your place and your space and your mind in that world. Even if we were not getting all the information, it might have been better in some ways.

It's trickier now. I'm not saying I encourage denial, but maybe a little bit of detachment and a little bit of distance can't hurt. But that was not the case over the weekend. It was pretty amazing to see all these marches, these women's marches that were all inclusive, men, women, children of all races and ethnicities and groups and all different types of people really coming together, I think, and sort of realizing that we have ourselves to rely on, that there is a community of people that that deserve and, of course, want to be good, decent people live in a in a in a diverse and tolerant America. You know, it's just it's very moving to me to see so many people of so many different types coming together. I mean, really, it's not liberal to want equal rights.

It's not liberal to believe in science. It's not liberal to want human rights. It's not liberal to want tolerance and diversity. And it's not liberal to be compassionate. It's American. to be compassionate it's you know it's it's american and it was great to see so many people come together um and and just be who they are it takes a lot of energy you know there's there's there's really a sort of a a natural humility and vulnerability to not being able to pretend you are something you are not or to try to be you know to pass or be accepted for something you aren't

and that vulnerability and that humility is is beautiful and obviously there's a lot of anger there's a lot of uh righteous anger around but man i i was just happy to see everybody you know coming together and and just you know being american being being good Americans and being good people to each other, being peaceful and trying to show some solidarity in their very real nervousness and fear about what's ahead, which we don't know. So that was exciting. That was uplifting. So I'm not going to spend too much time here because I have to pee.

But I do want to get you excited about this interview because it is a rare thing to talk to somebody who is 88 years old and has been and seen and done so much in the arts and in show business and in teaching acting and in just having a good spirit. It was a beautiful conversation. I'm going to share with you now. This is me and Martin Landau. You know, about 10 years ago, I knew who you were as a stand-up comic. Is that true? Yeah, because I liked what you did. You know, I was a big Mort Sahl fan, and Shelly Berman.

I was going to be one of the original Compass players. Is that true? In Chicago? Which became Second City. Sure. In other words, I recruited Shelly Berman because we toured in Stalag 17

in the Catskills. Well, Shelly and I used to do shtick. Uh-huh. Jewish dialect stuff. Because we toured like the Concord and Grossingers

and places in the in the Catskill mountains and Kutcher's Kutcher's yeah in fact a couple of places where they no English was spoken so Starlight 17 did got nil laughs really so it was all Yiddish well in a couple of places were all Yiddish and no one spoke English. Right. And we did a play in English. Yeah. So, I mean, it was very quiet. So was that the beginning of your acting? Well, no.

The beginning of my acting, I stopped. Let's go all the way back. So you're from New York. I'm from Brooklyn, New York. Yeah. I was a kid in Flatbush. And I could draw. And I went to Pratt Institute and studied fine arts.

That's still a good art school, I think, right? It's one of the best art schools in America. It happened to be my local art school. Okay. Little did I know it was a great school. I mean, you know, Trap Haven, it was a great fashion school, and New York had a lot of stuff. But Brooklyn had Pratt. Right.

And I went to Pratt because it was, you know, I went to Madison. Madison High School, James Madison. And Bernie, incidentally. Bernie Sanders. Bernie Sanders went to Madison. Did you know him as a kid? No, I'm 20 years older than he is. Oh, that's right. He's young.

I call him a kid. So were your parents first generation? No, my father was first generation. He was 12 when he came to America. My mother was like a fourth or fifth generation New Yorker. So they were there already, huh? She was there. And did your father escape?

My father, no. My father came from a family of people. He came before that. Yeah. His mother came first. Yeah. He had three brothers, two brothers and three sisters. Yeah.

And she brought them over one by one. The father stayed in Austria-Hungary. Yeah. The border kept changing back and forth. And he married a Yankee uh-huh i mean he was proud and he lost his jewish he was he was jewish and she was right so but a yankee nonetheless yeah well american american yeah and he worked like hell to get rid of his accent oh yeah so i mean he had a new york, which he didn't know about,

what I did. Right, yeah, yeah. But, you know, he was great. He got rid of the Austrian accent. He was able to. He got rid, that's right. He got rid of any trace of the Aryan. You're laughing, but, you know.

But it was interesting, I think, at that time that there was a need that Jews felt that they had to pass somehow. Absolutely. And New York, of course, the ghettos were clearly Jewish neighborhoods. Sure. On the Lower East Side. And Bleecker Street was Italian. And, you know, there were, you know, borders, literally literally and walls. I mean, yes, and he and my mother lived in the same house, same tenement house on different floors.

In the city, before Brooklyn? In downtown. What kind of business was he in? Well, originally, when I was first born, he had a factory that did pleating and stitching and stuff. And then he had a partner who robbed him, and he went bankrupt. And World War II broke out, and he would have made uniforms and stuff at that point and would have been very wealthy.

But what he learned to do was fix sewing machines just out of the nature of his having a factory. So that was his business. So he then became a machinist and was able to make parts. They couldn't get parts because the war effort was using most of the metal. So custom parts. So he could make parts to a custom. He had a workshop in the basement. So he's probably a sought-out man, I would think, that the only guy that could get the parts was the guy that could make them.

Yes. And fix a sewing machine. And how many siblings did you have? I had two sisters, one of whom is 10 years older than I am and is still alive. Oh, you got the good genes there. Well, she just stopped driving. Thank God. Just now?

At 98? Yes. She stopped driving? just stopped driving. Yeah. God. Just now? At 98? Yes. She stopped driving? She stopped driving. She used to go to Atlantic City from, she lives in Queens. She was a designated driver. I said, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. Why are you driving?

I said, how many of your sorority sisters are still alive? She said, none. I said, well, wait a minute. No, no. So who are these people you're driving? Yeah. She said, none. I said, well, wait a minute. No, no. So who are these people you're driving? She said, young people. They're in their 70s and 80s. But two of her sons, one is a psychiatrist and one is a heart doctor out of Chicago now.

The psychiatrist used to call me and say, how do we get my mother to stop driving? I said, you're the psychiatrist. She said, I'm her kid. And I said, well, I'm her kid brother. No one can stop her. No one can stop her. She finally said, enough, because I think she realized she was a hazard.

Yeah, she got scared, or scared somebody else. I don't know what happened, but she said, you know, I'm considering giving up the driving. I said, really? You know, as if, oh, what prompted that? She said, don't ask. So I didn't. So you're a kid growing up at this time, and you have this talent for drawing, which I would think is not the first idea that your father and mother thought you should pursue.

Well, no. Yeah. not the first idea that your your father and mother thought you should pursue well no yeah accepting i got a job uh while i was still in high school uh-huh in the new york daily news yeah in the art department oh really by bringing some stuff that i had drawn uh-huh to for them to peruse and they hired me oh look at that i, I was 17, and I said I was 18. So right away, I'm a liar to start with. So I go to Madison High School. At 3 o'clock, I walk to the BMT, get on a train, go to New York, and work from 4 o'clock till midnight

on the Daily News, and do my homework on the train and then go to high school again at eight o'clock. Were you drawing or what were you doing? Everything. Yeah. I became a staff artist. Really? When you were like 15? I'm really good. Yeah. I'm 17. Yeah. No, I was 17. Yeah. It was a year before I graduated from high school. After that, I went to Pratt and still worked at the News. I never told them that I was a kid. How are you not going to know, but good for them. I was working with guys called Flavius Guglielmo and Bob Carter, you know, a lot of anti-Semites, but that's okay.

A lot of anti-Semites, but that's okay. You know, I mean, Ed Evans, Joe Donahoe. The news was, you know, a tabloid. It had a huge circulation. And they were grooming me. The reason I left was I could do caricatures. I mean, really, I'm good at that. Yeah. I can, you know, I was illustrating Billy Rose's column pitching horseshoes.

Yeah. And doing caricatures. I did Red Skelton and Fred Astaire and Billy Rose and Judy Garland. And they were grooming me to become the theatrical caricaturist. Like a Hirschfeld, pre-Hirschfeld. No, Hirschfeld was already on the Times. But the Daily News had three times the circulation of the Times. Bill Gallo, who became the sports cartoonist on the news,

sat next to me. I mean, he was my pal. I went to his wedding. So you had a good gig going. I had a great gig, excepting, I said, Horace Knight was retiring. Horace Knight was an old English fellow who was retiring. Yeah. And I was going to move into that spot, which meant what that job entailed was I would be,

I would go to see a dress rehearsal or an opening night and then do a cast caricature for the Sunday paper. Two openings, two drawings. And that's the job, which is a great job. Yeah. You know, I had a very Art Deco look as opposed to... Cartoony? Well, no, it was cartoony, but Hirschfeld had a sweeping line. Yeah.

You know, and I had a very rigid kind of deco look. I still have a deco look. I do a lot of pen and ink now. Now, oh, really? Still, with thousands of drawings. It relaxes me. I realized at the time, if I got that job, I'd never quit. And I quit.

Because you were afraid to be there your whole life? No, because I wanted to be an actor. Always? No. John Ward was one of the artists on the news, but he was studying acting. He was a handsome guy. In fact, I even gave him a girlfriend.

Bobby LeBeau was her name. You gave him a girlfriend? Well, I... Introduced him? I didn't want to be her boyfriend any longer, so... And she was open to it? Well, he was a very good-looking guy. Yeah, yeah.

And had great manners. Uh-huh, uh-huh. John Ward, I mean, he was a terrific guy. Yeah. But he was studying acting with Sandy Meisner and talking acting a lot. And Frank O'Sara, who eventually at one point ran the New York Actors Studio, which I'm involved with. Yeah. He was directing a T.S. Eliot play called The Family Reunion.

And John was cast in it. And he was talking, he always talked about the theater and, you know, stuff. I went to see Family Reunion on opening night because he got tickets for me. John Ward's performance to this day was the worst performance I have ever seen in my life. Now, I had seen Lorette Taylor in Glass Menagerie, and I'd seen Lee J. Cobb in Death of a Salesman. You did? Oh, that must have been amazing. They were both amazing, so much so that I said, how the hell are you going to do that?

I realized sitting there that I could get up right then and there and do it 100 times better without any training. I said, holy God, I want to do that. I wasn't inspired by Lee J. Cobb. In fact, that wiped my desires out completely. And Loretta Taylor looked like she just wandered in off the street. She'd been a drunk for 30 years.

No one hired her. She was unhirable. She played the mother in Glass Menagerie, which put Tennessee Williams on the map. What I first did was went away to summer stock. Before Actor's Studio. So you got the bug. You. What I first did was went away to Summerstock. And I did- Before Actor's Studio. So you got the bug. You wanted to be an actor.

Yes. You quit your job at the Daily News and you auditioned for Summerstock? Yes. Okay. And I got a gig

at the Peaks Island Playhouse in Maine, which was America's first summer theater. And it had a resident company of 40 people. That's big, huh? All living in one big clappered house.

A lot of hormones running rampant, too. Yeah, I bet. Yes. And Otto Cimetti was the director, and Al Ruscio was an actor who studied seriously, and Peter Gumminy. All these people had done this for a while. I was new.

And we did a straight play. How old were you, like 20? 22. You're the greenhorn. I'm absolute. But no, I didn't tell anybody. Sure. I mean, a lot of white shoe polish in the hair

when I had to play older guys. Did you know, was there, what was it, how does that work? Were there several shows? You'd go out with one show or you'd camp in, you'd do like what? You did every show. Yeah. I mean. How many per season?

Like three or four? No. Well. 12 and 13 weeks. Oh my God. A different show every week or how do you go? Yes. I get it.

In other words words we did a straight play a musical we we opened with a streetcar i think and then we did roberta and then we did after roberta i think we did the glass menagerie and i did a marriage proposal checkoff and i mean all kinds of no training no training training? No training. Just seat in my pants. How'd you do? Everyone said I was wonderful. But I didn't feel that at all. So when I came back to New York, I sought out a teacher.

Yeah. And I asked a lot of people about. And everyone, you know, I heard the name Kurt Conway a lot. He had been a director at CBS. He had broken in people like Sidney Lumet and Martin Ritt and Bob Mulligan, and he had been blacklisted. He had signed a petition, a Willie McGee petition.

He was married to an obscure young actress called Kim Stanley, who became huge and probably one of the best actresses I've ever seen. She was a Broadway actress. She and Geraldine Page were members of the actor's studio, who I became quite familiar with. But this guy Conway was with the studio as well? Yeah, he was with the group theater. The group before. He was with the studio as well? Yeah, he was with the group theater. The group before? He was with Strasberg and Klerman. Odette's? Was Odette's?

Odette's started as an actor and then became a writer, yes. In the group theater? In the group theater. And a lot of those great plays he did were done for the group theater. Waiting for Lefty and Golden Boy and Rocket to the Moon. And, you know, yes, all of that. He became a writer. In other words, what the group realized is there was more drama in the streets of New York

than there were on the stages. So the idea, though, this was a socially active, this was building on a revision of the sense of community that the theater had and how it would impact the culture. of the sense of community that the theater had and how it would impact the culture. Both Harold Klerman and Lee Strasberg were young guys at the Theater Guild. They were doing plays,

watching people like Alfred Luntel and Fontaine and much more classical chestnuts, really. Yeah. You know, as opposed, they realized that the theater needed something contemporary. Chekhov, for instance, in Russia, had done his plays

about the dying aristocracy at the time. That's how the Moscow Art Theater embraced him. And there were people like Irwin Shaw and a lot of writers who wanted to write stuff

about what was going on, the Depression and Roosevelt and the NRA and WPA and stuff. That's what the group theater did. And theater at that time had a little bit of vitality to it. I mean, you know, there... Well, it had...

People were engaged with it? Oh, there was... New York theater was huge. Yeah. I mean, the plays were opening all the time and closing all the time and being panned and being hits. And you had, you know, a lot of, you know...

And the Jewish theater, too. The Yiddish theater with Marie Schwartz and Manasha Skolnick and people. I mean, theater was alive. Yeah. They had heard about the Russian, the Moscow Art Theater. Yeah. And Stanislavski. Right.

And doing those plays about the dying aristocracy, the comedies that Chekhov was writing, and the Three Sisters and Uncle Vanya. And also the Brecht, the Brechtian Theater was alive in Germany at the time. We're talking about the 30s. So Strausberg and they all went to study or to see? Went to sit at his feet and listen to him as he talked. Stanislavski. Stanislavski.

Konstantin Stanislavski became surrogate father to... The Buddha. Yes. And Stella Adler and Sanford Meisner and Harold Klerman and Lee Strasberg, Lee Kazan, a young actor. They all went there. And gleaned... Now, they all came back and they all interpreted over the years differently.

Sproutsboro, Sense Memory, and I mean, their emphases were all different. But this was the birth of the method. This was definitely, Stanislavski never called it the method. Right. It was a bad transition. Right. He called it the system. Actually, we're system actors.

We're not method actors. Okay. Actually, we're system actors. We're not method actors. Okay. Finally, it's been clarified. Well, it's crazy. Is it the same? The fact that Stella Adler and Strauss Berg and the other people that were, Sanford Meisner, that they all broke off and did their different schools of the system or the method. What were those infights about? I mean, what was the decision-making?

Well, it's the same infights that I saw as a kid growing up in Brooklyn, which is known as a city of churches, because every other corner had a church of a different denomination. And I used to hear, I'm talking about Episcopalian and Presbyterian and Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox and Jewish and Muslim, as we called them in those days. You know, arguments all the time. And I used to say, wait a second, nobody chose their religions. They were handed them for Christ. What are they arguing about?

They're all saying the same thing. Oh, if you don't believe in our religion, you're not going to heaven. You've got to believe in Jesus. Oh, wait a minute. Okay. There's some conditions. Yeah, all kinds of conditions. If I

confess my sins to this guy, it's going to be clean until next weekend. I mean, wipe it clean weekly anyway so you get when you get involved when you know I am artistic director of actor studio West now now I have been for a long time but when you go in at the beginning when you decide that you need an acting teacher and you got this guy's con this guy Conway's name you know what year are we talking this is long after the the establishment of yeah this is this is after the group theater it's now the actors i got into the act i have to go backwards yeah i got into the actor studio in

the uh right 54 55 and who was in charge strasburg okay and who was in charge? Strasburg. Okay. And who was this guy Conway? He was a teacher. Teaching privately on 54th Street and 6th Avenue. So they could just be part of the studio and then teach privately. Yes. Got it. Which most of the people I teach today are acting teachers, actually. Interesting. Because I pictured at that time that you'd go,

you'd sit with Strausberg, there'd be 20 of you. More than that. Okay. So that was part of it, but then you could do private study with a teacher of your choice. Yes. Okay, I get it. Before I became a member of the studio,

I studied with Kurt, who was much more Sandy Meisner than Lee Strasberg. What is that different? Differentiation. Sandy Meisner talks much more about intentions, actions, what a character needs to do. Strasberg is much more interested in the sensory life of the character. Isn't that interesting? Because there's so little examples cinematically of Lee Strasberg acting that having known about him when I was a little kid. Yes. And you watch that one movie with him and Art Carney where they played the bank robbers. That's right.

George. George Burns. George Burns. So as a guy in high school or junior high or wherever I first started learning about Strasberg, you're watching that, you know, this is the guy. Right. And you're watching. And then, you know, Godfather 2, right?

He plays the Meyer Lansky character. Exactly. In fact, that's his first job. Al Pacino, who studied with Lee, talked him into doing that. And I'm watching everything the first time. Like, he's got his leg draped over the chair. He's making strange noises. He made a lot of decisions.

Yes. And I've never seen Sanford Meisner act, but I was always one of these guys when I was younger and I started respecting people who come from that. The method was very romantic in a way. Of course.

Me too. Yeah. Right. So you watch, what are the tricks? And then you see some of these guys. It was very romantic in a way. Of course. And me too. Yeah. Right. So you watch, you know, what are the tricks? And then you see some of these guys. It was very interesting to me, and I'm going to ramble for a second. But, you know. Don't worry about it.

Ramble. Well, these guys that, these method actors of the generation of Pacino and De Niro. Right. And, you know, I guess that would be really second generation, right? Of the actor's studio. Yeah. Eli Wallach and those guys would be the first generation. And James Dean, Montgomery Cliff.

Well, Jimmy Dean was my best friend. Yeah, yeah. And you met him in New York. I met him in New York. I met him before almost anyone knew who he was. Right. But when I watch you as an actor, like you're in Crimes and Misdemeanors, which is one of my favorite films,

is one of my all-time favorite films. Thank you. I've seen it so many times. Thank you so much. And I could see in your performance the depth of experience and emotion and choices you were making. And I wasn't directed a whole lot by Woody.

No, yeah, he doesn't do that much, right? No, he doesn't. He hires you to do the job. If he doesn't like what you do, he fires you. Right. And it was a beautiful performance. Same with Ed Wood,

same with Tucker, same with the big movies that we know you from. But what's interesting to me when I watch, like, there's something that happens that, like, Pacino and De Niro that was very interesting to me

because you watch them and, you know, when they were younger, they're really engaging the method a lot. Oh, absolutely. And then in and then in the mid period once they've got their fame they kind of start relying on some quirks and ticks uh you know uh you know the patterns of behavior and now as they've both gotten older if they're given the right role they can really lock into it absolutely and it's fascinating you're absolutely right and those And those are stages that I agree with you about.

They became almost caricatures of themselves. Right, because it sold. Because it was successful. Right. Okay, so let's get back. So you lock in. You're studying with Kirk. You're studying with Strauss Berg.

It's the 50s. Well, I start, yeah. I go from Kirk. Everyone told me not to do the scene I did for the actor studio because Lee Strasberg

directed it on Broadway Clifford Odets had written Clash by Night that's a piece I did yeah

for the group theater but the group disbanded Strasberg directed it on Broadway commercially with Lee J. Cobb, Tallulah Bankhead,

and Joseph Schilkraut, and it flopped. So everyone said, don't do that. Don't remind him. Well, don't remind him. He said, even if Kazan passes you. Yeah.

I had to be judged by the final audition. Kazan, Sheryl Crawford, and Lee Strasberg. You have to get one votes. One means pass, pass, pass. One, one, and a two, no. Two means I like you, but come back in six months and three means hey don't knock on my doorway ever again you gotta get them all you gotta get them all so everyone said even if strasburg even if kazan likes you loves you yeah and cheryl loves you

Yeah. And Cheryl loves you. Lee would never like anything you do because that show, after that he went to Hollywood and he struck out there, unlike Kazan who hit in Hollywood. As a director? Yeah. Or Strasburg. Strasburg.

Strasburg wanted to direct. Yes, he wanted to direct for movies. So he really didn't make it as an actor or a film director. He was a teacher. Eventually, and then became an actor after 40 years of not being an actor. But teaching some of the greatest actors alive. Yes. Isn't that something?

So did you pass? I passed. All three? Yeah. Obviously. And what did Stroudsburg say to you? Only two of us passed that time around. Two actors.

One guy called Steve McQueen and me. Steve McQueen, I've heard that name. Yeah, me too. I learned that he was pretty good. Yeah, he did all right for himself in the movie business. He did. He did. Was he a good stage actor?

He started as, he went on the road for timeout for Ginger and playing, Tennis Anyone, one of those parts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, he then replaced Ben Gazzara in Hat Full of Rain on Broadway, and that kind of established him as an important actor. But it's interesting that guys like you and people that we know from television and from movies, you know, rarely at this point, historically, do we know the dues you paid in theater.

Right. And that's where a lot of this stuff gets done. Like, I don't even know if I've ever even considered Steve McQueen a stage actor in my mind. He started in New York. In fact, the first time I ever met Steve, or knew Steve, or of Steve, I was on the back of Jimmy Dean's motorcycle, which was sputtering. And we drove into a garage on 10th Avenue.

And one of the mechanics was a young guy who looked like Steve McQueen, whose name was Steve McQueen. And he fixed Jimmy's motorcycle. And that was the Steve McQueen. Yeah. Whose name was Steve McQueen. Yeah. And he fixed Jimmy's motorcycle. And that was the Steve McQueen. Yeah, and he hated Jimmy because Jimmy was getting all the parts on television. So you're there. Marlon Brando. Yeah.

I mean, Monty Clift. They were all there. Yeah. I mean, I was... Surrounded. When I did a scene. I mean, Kim Stanley was there and Geraldine Page was watching. Geraldine Page, she's the genius.

And Patricia Neal. Oh, my God. I mean... This is the crew that you're in with. And you're 20 what, 24? I'm young. Yeah. I'm a kid.

And when you're watching them, you know, working with them, did you, is that where you? Well, Lonnie, I did a bunch of projects with Lonnie Chapman, who is, it's funny because Frank Casaro had a group of New York guys. Yeah. And I was adopted by a bunch of Okies. Yeah. I was adopted by a bunch of Okies. Yeah.

Lonnie Chapman and Pat Hingle and those guys. Pat Hingle, he's great. He was in all the Clint Eastwood movies. Yeah, but he's, again, actor studio. Isn't that fascinating? Great character actor. Most of the people who were at the studio were pretty good. To this day, it's hard to get into the studio.

Recently, we had final auditions. We had 25 on one Sunday and 25 on another. We took a lot of people for us. We took three people out of 50 scenes. for us. Yeah. We took three people out of 50 scenes. Yeah. Probably,

I would say 30 of those scenes were dual scenes. Yeah. Dual auditions. Yeah. Two auditioners would work together?

To audition for the actress studio, you have to do a scene that's not classical, five minutes long with a partner. Anything you want to do. So it's good that, that you got to have a friend

who wants to audition the same day you do. I mean, you don't just put people together, right? Or are they already taking classes? No, they sign up six months in advance. Yes, the West Coast studio right now is in very good shape. Good. The work that's being done is brilliant work.

The best acting I see in this country. Every day of the week, Monday through Friday, we have at least one session, which is breaking down a script, how to rehearse, sense memory, effective memory sessions, speech, all kinds of stuff. On Friday, I run and moderate an acting session with two scenes. Usually two people in each scene, but sometimes more. And I critique it. Usually 80 to 100 people show up. Because, you know, if by the same token, I, as an actor, wasn't doing what I was telling them to do,

I don't think anyone would show up. Well, I've been doing some acting. And what do you look for? If you were to tell me right now... What's the most important thing? That, yeah. Okay, that's good. Trust. What I that's good. Trust.

What I've come to, talent is one thing, but to trust your talent is a hard thing to do. To trust your choices, to use the rehearsals in ways that you're not watching yourself. Right.

Self-conscious. Well, more than that. It's the director in you. Leave the director outside. When you break down a script and make choices on a scene or a character. There's an objective part of you that makes, that looks at stuff. You make a choice that's conscious and then either trust that to your subjectivity or don't. Now, if you do, let it take you where it will.

If it does what you hope it will, it will end the scene. As opposed to you're deciding to end the scene. Right, I get it. It's hard to explain. No, Right. I get it. It's hard to explain. No. I think I understand it because it brings a lot of things together from what I'm projecting onto.

Go ahead. Is that if you are in it, if you're available, if you're trusting your own emotions in the moment of the scene, that you're going to make choices. Now, those choices in and of themselves could be, that'd be the director in you. So to follow, to once you put the choices in place and you trust your emotions to ride through what is scripted, there has to be a certain amount of trust in the material that you're going to get somewhere, but that's on you. That's right.

Right. trust in the material that you're going to get somewhere but that's on you that's right right so if you're engaged with your emotions and you've made your choices and you trust those things together it will deliver you to the end of the scene absolutely i understand that only now recently okay good i'm glad you do like i mean i No, because, but applying it is hard. Trusting yourself to the degree that you don't be objective, that you trust your subjectivity and allow it to go where it needs to go. That's what rehearsals are for, to find out. But the interesting thing about television, or as you know, film, is that, especially television, is know your rehearsals are going to it's going fast man and your coverage is coming up and you know hopefully hopefully they're going

to cover you last so so you know you've got but but you still have to do it a lot of times right i mean you know again i mean okay i tell you a joke yeah and. And it's funny, okay? But then if I tell you the same joke 15 or 20 times, is it still funny? How do you find the funny in it? Right. Okay? Well, I have to do that for a living. Okay. There are all kinds of things that are going to come your way.

Right. You have to be able to think on your feet, make choices on your feet, and fulfill those choices. That's amazing. To trust yourself to the point where you're not going to get a lot of help from a director who's got all kinds of things to worry about. They might not even be looking at you. Probably doesn't. Yeah. If you know the lines and hit the marks, it's one less thing for them to worry about.

I mean, it's like, thank God, because, you know, I mean, they have all kinds of decisions and problems to make. But the wonderful thing about trusting yourself, again, you know, I use analogies all the time. I say, if you can swim well, what are you worried about? Drowning. Right. Why are you spending so much time thinking about it? Right. If you're afraid of earthquakes, don't live in California.

Otherwise, you're going to spend all your time. Worried. Worried about stuff that you can't control. Right. that you can't control. Right. If you can learn how to do what you do well, learn it. Because that's the one thing you have control over.

That's right. Because my experience recently in doing an acting job was that there was a scene. That was an emotional scene, but I was a guy that stuffed his emotions down. But this scene was- Explosion. It wasn't explosion. It was emotion.

It was crying. But it wasn't scripted. So I had this scene where I find something out that is emotionally completely upheaval. Right. And I didn't know that I was gonna cry of course and then you know like we did it again and you know i got there again but i said i think two is it i understand but if you have craft you can do 15 of those maybe and then 50 50 shot and then uh over the shoulder maybe two or three times over his shoulder or her shoulder two or three

times onto you you still have to act i know but like fortunately for me we did coverage but you know that i that but you were lucky. I was lucky, but let me ask you about the craft. So I fly by the seat of my pants a bit, but I do rudimentary acting from experience, from having done a show. But when you say craft, that would enable me to cry every time. What is that? would enable me to cry every time what is that well you were moved twice and you said whoops i think that's it i don't think i have any more tears well you have more tears and once you know so you say i got insecure well yeah you doubted my... You then, you know, the doubts occurred. And, you know, I don't think I can do this again.

I'm amazed. Instead of being amazed by it, expecting it. Just say, get there again. I can get there 50 times if I have to. And that comes from rehearsal and from doing the work. That comes from learning your craft. With that kind of thinking, you never dry up.

You're always a student of life. You're learning stuff. You're reacting differently to different things. And you're beginning to realize that certain things affect you in certain ways. The more you live in your body, I mean, there are a lot of actors

who stop training themselves. Why? Life is a lesson continually. But the fundamental you're saying is that once you don't doubt yourself, that because like what I did was I said no to myself. I said, as opposed to saying- As opposed I said no to myself. I said.

Right. As opposed to saying. As opposed to I can do that. I can do that and I can, and just figuring out, making note of the journey I took emotionally. Exactly. And hold on to it. Hold on. Find it again.

Right. Not hold on to it. Find it again. Right. Take the same road. Right. I always say, if you stay on Route 66, you're not going to see the Grand Canyon. You're not going to see Indian reservations.

Right. If you want to get off the roads and learn stuff about yourself. That's not sense memory. That's emotional discipline. That's also sense memory. It is. It is because if you practice something again and again and again, and it works again and again and again, it's sense memory it is it is because if you practice something again and again and again and it works again and again and again it's sense memory so that's that is the essence of scene study and that's why you do it that's right you know I

talked to a lot of actors you know and some have a system and they have a craft but you know a lot of times it's not so specific yeah and it's hard I mean I find that there are actors that I've talked to for five and ten years saying the same things and suddenly they're enlightened as if they've heard it for the first time that happens in life that's exactly what you're talking about actors that I respect will come up to me and say you know i finally understand what you're saying after what 20 years yes but they're talking about understanding it viscerally yeah because they they as opposed to not understanding it bodily i get

it i get it right right you know like i can understand you intellectually and i can put a plus b equals c together yes but. But for me, but sometimes- You still have to do it. Right. But sometimes people have been doing it, and they just never were able to identify it. And once they identify it, they're like, I can do it again. Exactly. Got it.

It's part of what I can put in my kit bag. Right. Like, in both, I don't have a clear memory of Tucker, but I have a clear memory of the work you did in the Ed Wood movie, and of Crimes and Misdemeanors, of course. And Crimes and Misdemeanors, that was a varied and emotionally deep performance. It was the deepest. Very deep. To make the decisions that you made.

Well, I also wanted, I didn't, I wanted him to be every man in the sense of. That was the genius of it. I even said to Woody when he flew me in. Yeah. He'd been, this is crazy because he's in New York. Uh-huh. And he, for four weeks he'd been trying to cast the part and hadn't. Yeah.

And I had just done Tucker. And he, Julia Taylor and he saw it the same week. And I had just done Tucker. And he, Juliet Taylor, and he saw it the same week. And they said, what about Landau? Even though a very different character. And he flew me in to New York. Yeah. Put me up at a hotel. And I met with him.

And Juliet Taylor was there. He was there, and I was there. And I walked in, and nothing was said. I sat down, and we kind of looked at each other for a while. And then he says, after what seemed like a long time, I just wanted to spend a few seconds with you. after what seemed like a long time. I just wanted to spend a few seconds with you. And that's all he says. So I get up and walk to the door.

I guess my time's up. He said, no, no, no, sit down. So I sit down. I'm sitting on a kind of a backless thing. And he's on the couch and she's on the chair in this dark room. And he starts to talk. I don't know what the hell he's talking about because I haven't read the script. Anyway, he's talking. And then he says, in the middle of this, I thought I've been lobotomized.

I swear to God. I mean, it was like, what the hell? I have no clue what he's talking about. He then says, Edward G. Robinson. That's the only thing I recognize. Now, I had done Middle of the Night on Broadway with Edward G. It was Patty Chapsie's first play on Broadway. Jenna Ronas played my wife. Edward G. I was Patty Champs. He's first play on Broadway. Jenna Rollins played my wife. Edward G. Robinson played the lead. I toured with it also. That

brought me to California. That's what Hitchcock saw me in. For North by Northwest. I didn't know what it was for, but that's what you were in. Yeah. He plays kind of a heavy. I played him as a gay character, actually. Oh, really? He wasn't written that way. Yeah. But he wanted to get rid of Ian Murray Sink with such a vengeance. I thought it was a great choice. Everyone told me not to do it.

Yeah. My first big movie, I'm playing a gay guy. I'm not gay. And I said, everyone's going to think you're gay. Did everyone pick up on it? Some people did. Yeah. I don't know that I did. Hitchcock did. Yeah. Was he okay with it? Some people did. Yeah. I don't know that I did.

Hitchcock did. Yeah. Was he okay with it? He loved it. All right. So you're with Woody. After this talk, he says, where are you going to be in an hour? And I said, in the hotel.

That's what I'm here for. He said, I'll send the script over in an hour. I said, oh, good. So, an hour later, the phone rings and it's Julia Taylor.

Yeah. Saying, it's going to be another half hour. His casting. He's writing you a note. Yeah. I said,

okay, I'm here. Yeah. Half an hour later, she comes and delivers the entire script to me. She said, very unusual. I said, what? He's comes and delivers the entire script to me. She said, very unusual.

I said, what? He's letting you read the whole script. I said, what's usual? He said, just your sides. Yeah. And he doesn't want you to know the rest of it. So then she leaves. I read the script.

and she leaves I read the script it's the best script of all the Woody Allen movies that I've read I agree with you the second I close it the phone rings it's Juliet

I swear I was doing Mission Impossible again and I thought the room is bugged I better look behind the pictures. So it's like, she says, he wants to talk to you tomorrow. I said, great. I run off at the mouth because I haven't talked for two hours and I'm excited. And she says, nine or 9.30. I said, well, says, 9 or 9.30? I said, well, make it 9 o'clock. She said, he's worried about how fast you wake up.

I said, tell him I'm worried about how fast he wakes up. At 9.30 in the morning, I go there, and I understand. I said, tell me what you meant when you said Emoji Robinson. Now, I love the script. He said, in days gone by, I would have cast him in the part. And I say, oh, that's terrible. That's wrong. I said, what the fuck are you doing, Landau? I've got Jiminy Cricket on my shoulders.

You're just talking to one of the great filmmakers in the world, telling him he doesn't know what the hell he wrote. I can't stop myself. I said, you know, I think you're seeing him much heavier than I do. I said, you know, whomever plays this part has to be, I mean, he's a spoiled brat. He's an embezzler. He's a womanizer.

He's a murderer. He doesn't do a single redeeming thing in this picture. It would be very easy to dislike this guy. I said, he's your protagonist. Whomever plays him, the audience has to join up with him and see themselves in him and be horrified at the same time. You don't have a movie, is what I said.

You're right. And I realized, but I couldn't play it any other way yeah so he sits and looks at me with these two Coca-Cola bottles yeah it's very quiet and I said oh Jesus

I just talked myself out of a great part yeah what time is your flight back he says I said well I just talked myself out of a great part. What time is your flight back, he says. I said, well, it's supposed to be at noon. He said, can we make it four o'clock? I'd like to fit you for the wardrobe for the character.

And then about two weeks into shooting, he said, You know, when I wrote it, I didn't think of it the way you're doing it, but it's better, I trust you, and I trust your instincts enormously. And he left me alone. He reshot his half of the movie again and again and again. He did reshoot one scene that I did on my birthday. I did the scene in her apartment. And then it's, she's going to ring my doorbell.

Yeah. We reshot it. He said, we go back to the apartment too many times. He said, I'm going to have a coming onto your turf. So we did the same scene in the car at the gas station. Right.

In the rain. Yeah. Before the murder, before I call my brother and go through that catharsis at the house. So we did that again. And I agreed with him. I said, yeah, how many times can we go back there? And it was more menacing. And I have to go much more menacing.

I don't know. She's going to ring my doorbell. I mean, this is my birthday, and she's going to blow the whistle on me. So that was re-shot verbatim. She gives me the record and Schubert and all of that. I mean, I still remember this picture because I worked very hard on it. It's a masterpiece. You were a genius in it.

Well, thank you. But, you know, he invited me to see Daly's, and I didn't go because I didn't want to, I wanted to just keep my subjectivity alive and not be objective about it. The day I finished, he ran two and a half hours of Dailies for me, and I saw the stuff because I knew I couldn't do anything about it

or could not get self-conscious about it. But that was important to me. Whereas, like in Tucker, I went to the dailies all the time when I did Tucker because Vittorio Storaro, the cinematographer, his contribution is so important. Whereas, Crimes and Misdemeanors was very flatly lit by spen niekvist yeah who was ingmar bergman's yeah cinematographer i i knew what that looked like yeah so i didn't have to look with vittorio and that's coppola right that was coppola. Yeah. Yeah. And the dailies were at Lucas Ranch. Yeah.

The Tornillo's dramatic lighting was impressive. Was elevating the time. Yeah, but I made my choices with relation. When he used lots of contrast, I eased up on my choices. I made my character a little more bland because the drama was in the lighting and it would be like a white on white shirt.

And that was your decision? Always my decision. I don't talk to the director much about anything. Except when you tell him that he's got the wrong conception of his lead character. Well, that's before I'm hired. Yeah, yeah. Once I'm hired, no, I try to make the director feel like

all the ideas are his. Interesting. That's the best way. Sure. I mean, you know. No, no. It makes complete sense. I think what I'm stunned by in hearing it is how aware you are of it.

Well, also lenses. I mean, for instance, let's say there was a picture that I did where at the beginning of the movie I get good news and it was a wide angle lens I uh I can do a dance sure ah yeah yeah you know I'm excited because you're way back there yeah he said I said how are you going to cover this? He said, I want to use a 200 millimeter lens. On this scene, he says, yes. With the 200 millimeter lens, I'm out of frame if I do this. I'm out of frame if I do this. I'm soft if I do this.

You got to split the focus between my tip of my nose and my eye. I can't do that dance. Yeah. tip of my nose and my eye. I can't do that dance. I've got to do something else for joy in that first scene that's wide. 17, 25 millimeter. The whole world's in that shot. It's got to match though, right? It's got to match.

Yeah. And the money shot is that shot. Yeah. I said, could you use a 50? He said, no, I want the background to be blurry. I don't want to see any of that. Yeah, yeah. Okay, I got to think on my feet fast.

So, I mean. I get it. I do that stuff ahead of time. You know, it's fascinating to me, though, in thinking about Crimes and Misdemeanors, because I've watched it so many goddamn times. Yes. Is that there was, you're absolutely correct, obviously, but there, it's interesting that Woody had perceived this guy without giving him the emotional depth necessary to carry the film

in a way that... He was a little bit more of a cheater in Woody's eyes. I feel that this guy, his big crime is that he led her on and didn't cut it off earlier. Right. And his lack of dealing with it creates a big problem for him.

That he wrestles with, like Raskolnikov. Yes. So. It's very Russian. Yeah. It's very Chekhovian. Yeah. It's very Dostoevskian.

Yep. The stuff you did with Jerry. Wow. Jerry Orbach. Oh, my God. Now, the interesting thing. For three days, a different actor played that part. And it was freezing cold in New York, and we shot the stuff in the car. He happens to be a brilliant actor, but he's playing it

like a racetrack tout. And Woody, it's freezing cold. He looks like a Michelin man. He's coming, I can't even describe it. It's hilarious. Rose,

I never heard him direct. He's saying, don't do that. That's his direction. Just talk the way you would. The deed speaks for itself, he tells the guy. The guy who's a good actor does it more. I said, uh-oh.

Don't talk out of the side of your mouth. He talks out of the side of his mouth more. Woody fires the guy a couple of days later because Jerry Auerbach is available, who was not available when we started the movie. And Jerry and I, I mean, I knew Jerry Auerbach when he was singing in coffee houses. He was 18 years old.

Yeah. I mean, in Greenwich Village. Jerry was great casting. He could have been my kid brother. So now Hitchcock, let's go back to this because it seemed important to you. And it was a big deal. We can talk about all the TV appearances and this and that. But these to me, for you as an actor, seem to be loaded up.

Right. Right? Well, everything has— Well, I'm not trying to trivialize anything, but we could be here. I mean, there were points, everything I've done, I could talk about— In this way? In interesting ways. Sure, sure, sure. talk about in this way interesting in interesting ways sure sure because i mean i never you know a

lot of actors use the the expression just fold it in yeah and i never have done that i've always you know i've never met two people who are alike well this is that great story that you know when they were shooting a few good men yeah he was talking to Nicholson. The story seemed, I think, gravitated from A Few Good Men because when they weren't doing his coverage, apparently he was still giving it 100%, you know, for the other actor. Right. And I guess someone asked him,

you know, why do you put everything into it? And he just said, because I love to act. That's right. Jack was my student for three years. What years was that? 59. Oh, really? 60.

Well, 58, half of 58, 59, 60, until I left for Cleopatra in 61. And I had him do exercises. There's a New York Times article on Jack. And the opening paragraph, he says, the reason I'm a good actor is because of exercise I did in Martin Landau's class, which was a singing exercise,

getting the voice, the body, and the emotions together. No splits, where everything works together. That's a Strasberg exercise. It's designed to get the voice to allow it to be colored by what's going on as opposed to learning the line in a certain way. What's the exercise? You sing Happy Birthday or Three Blind Mice

holding each note the same length of time with a lot of vibrato and leave yourself alone and try to relax and you'll find tension starting in various places. And if you can relax the voice suddenly you start to laugh at odd times that colors the voice. You start to cry.

You start to get angry. You're looking at your fellow class members. The voice follows the physical exertion. As opposed to the voice leading, the body leads and the voice follows the body's effort. And it's an interesting exercise because once you can do it, you look forward to doing it because it opens you up. Once you get past the fear of doing it. It can take years. Well, there's a vulnerability that we're sort of like moving around,

whether it's being confident in what you're doing or having faith in what you're doing, and then you talk about these exercises. But what really is at the core of the risk of it is that vulnerability. Being vulnerable. is at the core of the risk of it, is that vulnerability. Being vulnerable. And vulnerability is something men don't like to reveal. Intimacy is something that men don't like to reveal.

Dancers have other problems. They're lined up pretty nicely. It's hard for them to be ugly physically. There's all kinds of stuff. But when we talk about, like when you talk about somebody like, you can see it in your own performances and the ones that I'm familiar with. You carry your

vulnerability. You don't hide it at all. Ever. And that's a gift or is that something you learn? No, it's something I'm always aware of. I mean, I was running away from it. Sure.

I mean, you come from Brooklyn. I don't want anyone to see this softness. Yeah. No, it was something I felt I had to work on. And then somebody, when you talk about James Dean, or you talk about Montgomery Cliff, like you know. And Marlin. And Marlin, those three.

Those were just the raw. Well, you saw vulnerable guys. Different kinds of vulnerability, but vulnerable. Was that earned or were they like that? I don't know. I can't answer that. Well, you were hanging out with James Dean. Was he naturally like that?

Well, Strasberg was rough on Jimmy, and Jimmy stopped working at the studio. That's why he was gentle with Steve McQueen and rough on me. Why do you think he makes those decisions? Because he's Lee Strasberg. I mean, you're asking me questions. I can only tell you what I think. Okay.

As opposed to Strasberg. What you feel. There were people that he absolutely, he was tough. Yeah. Really tough. Yeah. And there were actors who couldn't survive it. Yeah.

survive it. Yeah. I think one of his reasons was he realized that if you didn't have that, that stick-to-itiveness, you're better off not doing it. That it took a lot of effort and work. So he's probably harder on the more gifted that could have slouched through it.

Yes. He was tough on you. He was gentler with women, harder on men. If you were Marilyn Monroe, you had it better than... Anybody. I mean, I could tell you stories about, you know, I played John the Baptist on Omnibus with Eartha Kitt as Salome, and he had me come up with something he never did, and bawled the shit out of me, because Eartha

Kitt came in, John Sticks was sitting right next to him, who directed that episode of Omnibus. He said, Landau, Landau, this is like two or three weeks after I did the live show of Salome on Omnibus. He said, I want to discuss your performance. He said, any English actor could have done what you did. You didn't have the cistern as deep, the cistern, which is the well. You should have been more physically connected to that. I said, well, the director, I never said John Sticks,

who was sitting right next to you. I said, the director and I discussed it because Eartha Kitt came in with a performance, and I felt if I did that, I would come off as being very indulgent. I sort of used her as the choices I made. He said, inexcusable, and chastised me. And I remember Marilyn was there that day, and Gerald E. Page was there that day,

and Kim Stanley was there, Maureen Stapleton was there that day, and Eli Wallach was there that day. And Kim Stanley was there. Maureen Stapleton was there that day. And Eli Wallach was there that day. And then the following week, he called me up again because he got a lot of letters saying that he was rough on me, unduly, that I tried to explain. From other actors? From Frank Casaro and other people.

He read the letters and then he bawled me out again. So, but everything he said was right. Which was what? That you were depending, you were reacting as opposed to acting? That I didn't play the physical fatigue and the fact that I wasn't eating good food and the fact that I was being, dying in that.

And even before my head was chopped off, that I was physically wearing down in that environment. And I needed to have a little more of this. Even though it's Oscar Wilde and written in a poetic way. Where is he anyway? Right, right. So that was a big lesson.

So now you don't do that anymore. You keep aware of that stuff yeah but i also realized too that if there's an actor that comes in who's not doing his job i've got to make a scene work i may have to make adjustments that don't show me off well to make a scene work right otherwise i look bad just as bad as he does or she does. So what I decided that day with John Sticks was that I couldn't do it as fully as I would have liked to. I said, it'll look like I'm a sore thumb in this. I said, Patricia Neal is playing. I said, I'm the only one who's shot.

I'm going to look bad. Earth is going to look wonderful. I better, I mean, this is not going to be good for the piece if I do this. But he never stood up for me. Ah. Two times

it was brought up at the studio and he was there and he never spoke. And he wound up teaching drama at Juilliard. Yeah. John Stakes. Did you have a resentment towards him?

I'd never trusted him after that. That's reasonable. Did you work with him again? No. Yeah. I wouldn't. So let's talk about Ed Wood. Okay. You won an Oscar about Ed Wood. Okay.

You won an Oscar. Yeah. Spectacular. Yeah. Tim Burton's pretty. I love Tim. And we talk about your awareness of direction, of lighting, of cinematography, of what the director's going for. These are innate things that you do on set that you keep to yourself in a way so now you're working in black and white you're playing a known

quantity well somebody you grew up with watching i imagine yeah but you have to realize too i mean the black and white aspect when we first started we, we were going to shoot that picture in color. And I wasn't sure whether I could do Lugosi without making it... Farce? Yeah. I mean, everyone, every impressionist... Well, well, you know... Yeah, yeah. impressionistic. Well, well, you know. I even told him that at the first meeting we had, he called me.

First of all, I didn't think it was him. I got a direct call in my house from Tim Burton. Yeah. He said, hello, this is Tim Burton. And I said, yeah, well, this is Thomas Jefferson or something. Yeah, right. I mean that. Sure.

I thought, one of my friends, Tim Burton's not going to call me directly. Yeah. Well, it was Tim Burton. Yeah. He said, there's a script on its way.

Check out the part of Bella and get back to me. This is my number at the studio and this is my home. And I wrote the numbers down and I said, sure, Tim. And within half an hour,

a messenger comes with a script called Ed Wood. And I read it and I love it. And I call him at the studio and he's gone. So I called his home number and he answers the phone. It's Tim Burton.

I said, I don't know whether I can do this or not. I said, you know, it's Bela Lugosi. I said, you go into any video store and there's a whole section of horror movies and there's a whole... Ten years ago, I probably could have gotten away with it. I said, I've got to be Bela Lugosi. He said, you think you can?

He said, you've worked with great directors and terrible directors. You've worked in good movies and bad movies. You've worked in... I don't know anyone else who could play this part. I said, well, that's very flattering. I'm not sure I can. But he was almost drawing a comparison between you two.

Yes. He was saying that if there's anyone who could play it. Emotionally. Yes, I could do it. Right. So he says, come in tomorrow. We'll talk about it. So I said, let's do some tests. We did some color tests. I don't know. I'm

not Lugosi and I'm not me and I'm not, I don't know who the hell that person is. It's somebody else. Along the way, we're doing tests. I have two Polaroids that were taken in the makeup chair. I run them through my fax machine. They come out black and white. Yeah. Legosi never made a color film. Edward never made a color film.

I said, that's the problem. The phone rings while I'm doing this. I swear to God. Tim Burton. Yeah. I got a problem, Martin. I said, what? He said, Mark Canton doesn't want to make the film in black and white.

I have to make this film in black and white. Mark Canton of Columbia Pictures says it's got to be in color. And you hadn't heard any of this yet. No. Yeah. He said, I'm going to Disney. They're willing to do anything I want to do, but it's going to be another month,

and you've got an honor about date on your contract. Yeah. Are you still available in a month, and do you still want to do it? My eyes, I have to collect them from the coffee table and put them back in my head. I said, yes, you're damn right. I didn't even tell him that I'd gone through the same fucking thing.

It was like serendipity. Years later, I told him. I never told him. Yeah. I never told him. What did he say? Wow. So now, this is an Oscar-winning performance.

It deserved an Oscar-winning performance. Well, thank you. Now, what was the process of building this character out from the inside? of building this character out from the inside? I looked at a lot of... I was doing a movie called... that Mark Rydell directed with Richard Gere and... Intersection? Intersection.

It was shot in Canada. Tim kept sending me Bela Lugosi movies. Yeah. Including one that I, I became a huge fan. Bela Lugosi meets the gorilla. Uh-huh.

It's, it's got Martin and Lewis lookalikes who, one sings and one does spastic humor. And they're on an island running around with moo-moos. And there's a castle on the island.

And there's a mad scientist in the castle, Bela Lugosi, who's injecting serum into monkeys that overnight become actors in a terrible gorilla suit. And it's called Bella Lugosi Meets the Brooklyn Gorilla. And it makes Ed Wood's movies look like Gone with the Wind. I mean, I'm not kidding. You've got to see this movie. Yeah.

Because Lugosi is working his ass off playing this part of this piece of trash. My heart went out to him. And I saw that in Vancouver. And then I looked at a bunch of pictures, movies of him being interviewed when he was on top of his game wearing a tennis sweater and looking handsome. And then I saw him coming out of the hospital after going through rehab and just shaking hands with all the hospital staff. He said, yes, I'm going to start a film

with Ed Wood again, you know, and stuff. And I became a huge fan. And I said to Tim, I said, if after five minutes they're saying Landau's doing a good job, we don't have a movie. They've got to believe I'm Bela Lugosi. And I'm going to break my ass getting there. And I did. Was there something, it seems to me that when you talk about it, that there was something as an actor that you identified?

Well, a lot of things. Yeah, because this is an aging guy. He's got a morphine problem that he's in and out of. Yes. And he's washed up. Completely. And you found empathy and sympathy and connection with him. Yes.

Everything you're saying is what I would say too. Everything he said goes for me too. Was that, would you say, at that point in your life or maybe in your whole life, the most rewarding role? It came at the right time. I was going through a lot of, you know, we do go through different things.

I have a picture that I just finished recently with Paul Sorvino. Oh, yeah. And the guy who directed it and wrote it is a Harvard doctor. He's 70 years old.

It's his first movie. Just finished? It's finished. Yeah. I saw it. It's one of the best things I've ever done. What's it called? It won't be out.

It's going to festivals. Yeah. It's called The Last Poker Game. Uh-huh. It's a doctor's view of a retirement home as opposed to a Hollywood view of a retirement home. You see, it's interesting. I talk to musicians sometimes.

I talk to all different kinds of people. Yes, of course you do. And, you know, a lot of the guys, you know, who have had success in their life and are now, you know, seemingly not as relevant as they used to be. Yes, of course. Always believe they're doing the best work of their life right now. But it's interesting, in talking to you for this hour and a half, or however long we spent, and talking about acting, there's absolutely no reason that couldn't be absolutely true,

as opposed to some manifestation of an insecure ego. That there's some part of people that they have to believe that they're still relevant to doing the best work they ever did but in hearing how you talk about what you do and who you are and the growth that you seem to do i believe you and i want to see the movie well i want you to see this movie it's deep and interesting. And it's, Paul is, Paul thinks it's the best thing he's ever done. And I agree. The reason I did it was because it smacked of realism.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Paul. Which is the group theater. All the same thing. Yeah. I mean, and I've known him a long time, but we never worked together before.

Oh, that's great. So we had a great time. He's done some really kind of powerfully deep performances. And he's an opera singer too, and he sings in this. I mean, Howard used our gifts and encouraged them, and we encouraged him in a certain sense. And we encouraged him in a certain sense. I mean, we would rehearse before we got on the set so that we knew what a scene was about

before the crew lit it. Right. Which is important. Yeah. Otherwise, you know, it's lit, and then you're blocking it and adjusting to the movement as opposed to what's really going on sure sure

and as a result you know we didn't go on to the set until we were really there yeah it's beautiful and then we could play with it so it has that great and it was great talking to you.

It's so exciting that you're so engaged in this work. Well, how old are you? 53. God, I wish I was 53. You're a kid. Good. I hope so. You know how old I am?

88. Yeah. I feel like Adolf Zucker, when he honored him on his 100th birthday, he got up and he said, man, if I knew I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself. You're doing great. Hey. I've talked to guys your age.

You got it all going on. Hey, I still can think. Yeah, it's beautiful. Most of the guys I came up with, well, they were either dead or they'd forget what they had for lunch. Not you. It's astounding. You got a better memory than me. Well, you know, I'm fortunate.

Come in. Yeah, hello. I appreciate you taking the time. Well, I appreciate your allowing me to take the time. Thanks, Martin. You're allowing me to take the time. Thanks, Martin. That is amazing.

That, I don't know, it's just a life well lived. And a lot of wisdom there. It was a real honor to have him, to have Mr. Landau join me here in the garage. You go to WTFpod.com for all your WTFpod needs. Tour schedule. Get on the mailing list if you want my little update. And I can play a little guitar. Sure. Thanks for asking. Thank you. Boomer lives!