WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 788 - Norah Jones / Pete Holmes

Episode Date: February 22, 2017

Singer-songwriter Norah Jones can float between multiple genres of music with ease, whether it’s jazz or standards or country or acoustic pop. That's not surprising when you consider how she was influenced by her Texas roots, her early piano playing, performing arts school and her estranged father, who she only got to know later in life. Plus, Pete Holmes stops by to test how prickly Marc will get as they talk about Pete's new HBO series, 'Crashing.' Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking

ears what the fucksters what the fuckadelics what the fuck nicks the very buddies what the fucking ears what the fucksters what the fuckadelics what the fuck nicks be very important what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it today on the show you know sometimes you get an opportunity to talk to people and you never thought you'd have that opportunity but like recently i got the opportunity i was asked if uh i would talk to nora jones and i'm like she's a great singer that's interesting her dad is ravi shankar that's got to be cool uh yeah so yeah let's talk to her so i talked to her today i also uh had pete holmes in here which you know for me is um good and and it's it's nice and it can be difficult me and pete have a thing but we've

both gotten older we've both sort of leveled off to some degree i'd like to think i have i think i have i think i'm doing better i do want to say that i am pre-recording this uh particular intro that did you know a couple of days beforehand not even that that matters but in the world we live in who knows what's going to happen so if i don't address something that it seems like it requires addressing, which I don't necessarily do anyways, if it happened yesterday, I ain't going to address it because this happened a few days ago. How's that for time jumping? Look, if you have Sirius XM radio, you can tune it to the E Street radio channel this week, and you'll wind up hearing my interview with Bruce Springsteen at some point. They're playing it throughout the day until Sunday.

It's still available here, too, at WTFpod.com. But I'm just telling you, just sending a little love towards the Sirius station. Bruce wanted it on, so they put it on. Thought that was pretty cool. You you know I'm gonna be a little self-centric if I could because when I'm down or when I'm not feeling uh good about myself or the world or whatever I I need to talk to you you know my connection with you is very important I'll read a few emails I do not want you to think I'm doing it to toot my own horn, per se, but I think there is a logic to it. Let's see if I can get to it.

Subject line, Charlotte. Hey, Mark, I just wanted to say great job last night at the Knight Theater in Charlotte. audience member to know that the guy on stage really knows what he's doing and that if we just give in to whatever he's got planned for the next hour or so, we all go on this journey together, having some laughs and hopefully learn something. I've seen you live a couple of times now and both times it felt like I was watching something special. Keep doing what you do, Todd, in North Carolina. Thank you, Todd. It was a powerful show for me because, as you know, I've been a little tangled up. I've been a little overwhelmed.

I've been a little hopeless in some respects. So entering a show like that with the need to talk and the need to connect creates something very present. I can't do it without being present. This is the thing. I can't just do an act. I got an act. I got stuff I'm working through. I got jokes that I know I've done many times. I leave a lot of room for whatever happens and to have feelings within the thing. That's just the way I do it. And that's why I'm going to read this letter. And this is not, you know, again, I'm not trying to toot my own horn. Obviously, I like hearing this stuff.

But I just wanted to address it because I'm going to have Pete on. We're going to talk about, you know, comedy stuff. Subject line, Charlotte show. Question number two. Hey, Mark, thanks for the laughs tonight, man. Show was incredible. And you and Blair killed it. I was the guy who asked you about

the first stand-up show i took a few questions i do that occasionally appreciate your answer and the museum joke was hilarious i actually performed one of my first jokes ever wrote for the people in charlotte because of that question i wanted to ask you another question when you peeked out the curtain but five humans were in my way here's my second try how do you deal with the fear of bombing thanks again for the show definitely coming out to another one if i can manny how do you deal with the fear of bombing it's always there man it's always there you just deal with it and eventually hopefully uh your fear tends to go away a bit and you find a sort of weird freedom in bombing. It's necessary.

You got to try new shit or you take risks. You're going to bomb. But that's just part of the fucking job. I mean, you shouldn't bomb when you get to a certain level. You should have enough material and be responsible enough to your audience and professional enough to try to put on the best show possible. But even if that doesn't go well, that's just a liability of the business, of the craft. But the fear, I don't know. I'll let you know when it goes away. But talking about bombing, I talked to Pete Holmes for a little bit. He's got a new show on HBO, which I'm okay with. It's called Crashing. You

can watch episode one on HBO Now, and then it's on every Sunday night at 1030. And it's about him starting out as a comic. So this is sort of a comics conversation. So enjoy it, comedy lovers and comedians. And me and Pete, we're getting along all right. So this is me and Pete Hall. and me and Pete are, we're getting along all right. So this is me and Pete. It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats,

but meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls. Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No, but moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly.

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Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Homes. com homes somebody like me i i like uh having a little bit of chaos in the house yeah like the dogs peed in every room of the house and that's actually good for me yeah you know we don't we because i it uncovered ways i didn't even know that I was uptight. Oh yeah. Cause like the dog would pee, would have company over,

get excited. And then it'd pee smiling, looking at you as this hot piss pools on the ground. Yeah. And this dark cloud, it was like despair adjacent. It wasn't just anger. I was like, fuck the universe.

Like it was worse than the, it triggered me in this way that I couldn't understand. And what do you make of that? I have no idea. I was like, fuck the universe. Like, it was worse than the sum of its parts. It triggered me in this way that I couldn't understand. And what do you make of that? I have no idea. Well, I do have a theory, and I wonder. Control issue? I think my mother is a little bit like a needy dog.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's a terrible thing to say. But when we first got my dog, like, I really enjoyed him. And then my mom came and visit and kind of ruined it. Because I was like, oh, this is how I kind of felt growing up. Was I have this thing and sometimes it pisses on the floor. And sometimes it loves you. And you're not sure what to do.

Right, right. But with the dog, you give it a fucking bone and it's fine. Sure, you clean up. It's a dog. It's fine. With your mother, it's ongoing. It is ongoing. There's no bone to give i wrote myself an email and it was like how to talk to my mother you know you wrote yourself an email yeah yeah and it was like read this every time

before you sort of like a oh a pep talk a little pep talk yeah uh some uh some uh guiding points a guiding it's almost like a translation yeah It's almost like English to mom translations. Because sometimes I get that impulse to call home because you have like a happiness surplus. That never drives me to call home. If I want to waste that surplus. That's what it is. Well, you're pushing the money forward.

I don't suffer from happiness surpluses too often, but I understand the idea. You know what I mean? I'm like, I think i can handle it oh no i definitely know that one it's like here's my window yeah i'm feeling good about myself and sometimes they double the money and they're nice and sometimes they take the money but right but also usually those are the moments where you're like i have boundaries right now that's right i'm gonna try it that's right that's it i feel strong it's like after therapy i'll call my

mother right i'll be like here we go i just talked to a guy, made it sound so simple. I feel good. And then she makes me make another appointment. But what's on that list that's sort of like, don't do this. It's don't speak from your head. It's like heart stuff. It's like, I was just in New York promoting the show, which is why I'm here and I'm so grateful

for the opportunity, thanks for having me. And I went to New York to do like, it was crazy busy. It was like, you do the Today Show and then you do this. And then you had your four seconds on the Today Show. And you got to get up at like five. Three people talking at the same time. You got to figure out how to say two things. And there's so many things you can't say like in his life.

There's literally no time. There's no time. To do anything. I said nothing and nothing much was accomplished. Yeah, they sit there. They set it up by explaining the show entirely. You say one thing. One of them says something.

You say something back. And they're like, okay. That's it. Thanks for getting up. What else did you do? Well, then I went on the same day we did Colbert and Charlie Rose. And I'm forgetting. Rachel Ray.

I did the morning show with Rachel Ray. So I'm telling my mom that it's like back to back to back stuff. And all she says, like the fantasy is you want your mother to be like, oh my God, that's so exciting. Charlie Rose. Oh my God, that's so exciting. I can't believe you're doing Colbert. What's that like?

And instead she just goes, well, then you're close to Boston. You can visit. Oh, right. Right. And then I come at it. Which comes across as like just erasing. Everything I just said. Yeah. It's just like, well, then you're close to Boston. You can visit. Oh, right, right. And then I come at it. Which comes across as like just erasing. Everything I just said. Yeah, yeah.

It's just like, well, then. Dismissing your accomplishments. How does this serve me? You know what I mean? And I'm just like, ah, fuck my face. So I would go, mom, you don't understand. You're not listening to me. I'm very busy.

And she's like, well, just stay one more day. And I'm like, well, I got to fly back. The premiere is that day. And then you're like, you don't even know what my premiere is you're like getting like a baby when uh the email i wrote to myself was like uh when will you visit here's what you say oh that would be so great yeah i wish i could that would be so fun i love you so much i love coming home wow it's nice to spend time with you buttering it up buttering it up. You know what? You don't have to say all of those things, but that's the attitude that I think she's looking for.

I say, I can't. I have no time. I just saw you four months ago. But you know, you start to get a sense for what people want. And my mom just wants, she doesn't need the visit. She just needs me to say, I wish I could. Well, that's right. But that's always one of those weird things when they want you to visit for a day.

It's like, what do you think happens that day? Buddy, that's all I say. She's like, I wish you could stay one more day i'm like mom three days is the max we start arguing after that what she you know i know i think i know what she's expecting she's expecting seven-year-old whiffle cut boy to come home oh yeah and be like and he might on the fourth day i might revert yeah. And it's very weird for her to be like, no, mom, I'm getting a hotel.

No, mom, I don't want you to sit on my lap when my girlfriend is in there. Yeah. Or ever. Or ever. Could you not do that?

Could you not? Can we try to keep it appropriate? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I've used girlfriends and wives to sort of shield me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I tell them,

I'm like, just don't let her. I've been in a situation, I hope this isn't too fucked up, but i've been in a situation i hope this isn't too fucked up but you know i have a situation where girlfriend here yeah uh mother here so to my right is my girlfriend to my left is my mother um girlfriend's hand here kind of inner thigh yeah mother's hand slightly closer on the other side closer to the back you're like two romantic yeah things not a good threesome. Nope. Not one of the good ones.

Yeah. And, you know, it's actually shows like yours and any talk of boundaries. Yeah. It was very helpful, but very hard to put those up. And that's something that we kind of explore on Crashing. Yeah. It's a hard thing. Well, yeah.

You're breaking everyone's boundaries with your needy ass self. That's right. Yeah. I's right. Yeah. I did not. I don't know if there was a press package, but I watched the first one last night. So I did watch it. I can't believe it. I knew the idea for the show because I talked to you or talked to Judd about it.

It's somewhat based on truth. Yeah. I know that, you know, you did get a divorce, but the way that you kind of, you do feel bad for you. But with me in that relationship with you, it goes from I feel bad for him to I get mad at you. Yeah, I understand. No, I get that. I completely get it. In fact, when I watch the show, I'm rooting for my wife to leave.

In the first 30 seconds, I'm like, this guy's not giving her what she needs. And that was very important to me. It was almost like a therapeutic exercise to consider her side of things. Well, when you were writing that, I mean, it obviously didn't go down like the real thing, did it? No, no. You know, it's emotionally true. It's not factually true.

I didn't walk in on them. Right. It was more she told me. Right. It was even more annoying. I was even more oblivious. Right. She was very she told me. Right. It was even more annoying. I was even more oblivious. Right. She was very emotionally.

Oh, it had gone on for a while? It was going on for months. And like, I was just like, gee, we seem a little bit distant. Right. We haven't had sex in a while. Yeah. And I blamed it on the fact that we had moved upstate. Yeah.

There was this physical distance. Yeah. I was going into the city to do shows. Right, right. And then she was having this affair, unfortunately. Right. Well, this guy, well, it was funny because the guy that you chose has to be, in some ways, the worst scenario. Yeah.

The guy who's immediately negotiating and trying to make you feel better about this inevitable thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not really taking any responsibility for it at all. He's almost like two, the character played by George Basil, who's amazing, and he's likable. Where'd you find that guy? I met him at a party, and I was like,

what is your deal? Why aren't you famous? You're so funny. He's an improv guy. Oh, he is? In New York or here? I met him out here, but I think he was in New York for a time.

And I don't know if you ever run into those people and you're just like, I don't get it. You're like a funnier Matthew McConaughey type, and I'm like, this is amazing. Right. And then years years later because show business takes fucking forever i'm like yeah i think i have something for you and he came in and killed it but he's almost like too evolved he's so evolved in that like hippie way that he's like it's all in the game man yes i fucked your wife yeah like this is how it works this is the pain that's gonna and you're like i don't

want to hear this shit you fucked my wife what are you gonna do in that moment and i you know look i love arty and he certainly shined in this fucking episode yeah he's great i mean thank god he was there the show would have been garbage but i he really is a bit i know you're breaking balls he's i have to say i know you're breaking balls but in all seriousness arty is a huge reason why the show got picked up he's a huge reason why the pilot and a lot of is he recurring or he's in four out of eight and he's amazing but in that scene you know he we had this very well before the first uh the scene where after the comedy show yeah after the show yeah he takes me to buy a piece of pizza and we had it all scripted out and arty hasn't acted in 14 years and you're watching him in this thing and you're like what

the fuck this guy is amazing yeah and we had it scripted but we started rolling we shot it on film and the reason i mentioned that is because there's only like 12 minutes in a reel yeah so we started rolling and why'd you do that jed wanted it to look pretty like a movie interesting because there's so many people that you know you would think would be real holdouts with the film that have really kind of just said, fuck it. I know. Scorsese is a big standout. Friedkin.

I think it might be possible to make digital look like film, but I think you need someone amazing doing it. It might be possible, but you still need a lot of effort to do it. So we made it kind of foolproof. But we start rolling the film and we have the script, like I said. And then instead of doing it, Judd just goes,

Artie, talk about what you would tell a comedian who's naive and doesn't know anything about the world. And then Artie just talked for 15 minutes. The whole reel, not one line of the script. At the end, they roll out a good... You hear the sound of the film. Everyone applauded. Everybody just cheered. It was such a heartwarming moment for Artie. the script right at the end they roll out a good you hear the sound of the film yeah everyone applauded like everybody just cheered it was such a heartwarming moment for arty who everyone's

rooting for yeah you know he can sometimes get in his own way or whatever he tell you this really sometimes no he's great i love him i love him and he was so funny it had it had some real he wears his heart on his sleeve and that's what we needed and kind of like what you've done to me in ways that i appreciate it right also just a little more diplomatic yeah he gives you that like what the fuck are you doing yeah you think you're just gonna waltz in and get a show he wears his heart on his sleeve in the way that somebody who couldn't go any lower has to yeah right like there's nothing that's going to happen to arty that hasn't already yeah in a way the worst has already happened and that emboldens them i think well but it also gives him

this very unique perspective because he's still somehow when he's engaged in conversation and he's not fucked up right you know he is a very wise kind of dude and that's one of the things we want to show on the show is the unlikely canopy here's this guy and he seems like the guy that would have it together you know he's he's religious and he's clean he's he's married yeah you lean on that pretty early so like to set up the show i should say that it's about pete starting out as a comic about you starting out as a comic yeah sure you your wife you catch her with another dude and now you're just alone you leave the house that you had together and you're wandering yeah but you're just alone you leave the house that you had together and you're wandering yeah but you're committed to comedy that's it yeah and secretly in love

with comedy the whole time which is right which is a dirty secret you're you're listening you go you focus in on the jesus picture in the kitchen yeah listening to jesus tapes yeah joel osteen yeah can i tell you something about that okay i I think you'll enjoy this story because I used to like Joel Osteen a lot. I would listen to Your Best Life Now on audio tape. And it's just, you can hear him smiling. And he's just like, you know, God's favor. He wants you to step into his favor. He wants you to be happy and rich and successful.

I really loved it. And then my wife fucked another guy. And then I laid on my bed I was trying to cheer myself up in the car you put that back on

after exactly yeah and I take it out like it doesn't and that's based on this moment is I put it in my ears

and he's like God is watching you God is protecting his children and I was just like not only did it not make any sense I couldn't even

understand a time in my life when it would have made sense right and that's kind of what we're showing when pete ejects the cd oh is there's a paradigm shift right he used to think i don't know if i picked up on that specifically it takes a few viewings yeah well now you're asking a lot you know it's always on there not today not tomorrow but it's sometime but sometime. But that's the feel that we're going for. Pete had an idea that God was going to protect him and that he was kind of in the protection plan. Right, but you don't lose your faith.

No, but it's going to get chipped and reconstructed for sure throughout the first season. And that's something that's very exciting to me because you don't see a lot of religion on shows. No, you don't. And also you don't see that struggle of a guy who is a believer and really uses it and relies on it. Right. And then, you know, has a crisis of faith.

Well, that's what I think gives the show stakes. Yeah. Is most people, you know, your wife leaves you in a show or a movie. The next scene is the guy at a bar trying to to get some strange yeah you know what i mean like you just go out and fuck or destroying his wife somehow or doing coke or whatever i had people tell me they were like hey i've been there do some coke yeah literally people know i i just get some coke yeah i did everything after well after i broke up with my second wife i did everything outside of drinking and drugging.

Is that right? Well, I mean, mostly women, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's how people that are, they think it's a good idea, but ultimately, you know, it's a good idea if you want to, like, actually, you know, ruin sex for yourself. Right. Yeah, that's right. Have really fucked up associations with it.

Or just sort of like, you know, once you start using sex specifically as a drug, you might damage the possibility of it becoming an intimate connection ever again. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What is the arc of the show in terms of action? You just move from place to place? Well, that was what made it feel like a TV show. Yeah. Obviously, I was like, oh, this is what happened to me.

I grew up very religious. I married the first girl i ever dated yeah and then after six years she fucked a small italian man named rocco so that's obviously my story right so but what made it feel like a tv show was i was like oh then every episode i'm staying with a different comedian right i don't have any money i don't have any reason i'm not good i can't make money and it's kind of telling the story of how people like TJ Miller in real life, John Mulaney in real life, Nick Kroll in real life really did rise to the occasion. So that made it feel episodic. So where we're going-

What do you mean? In real life they did? In real life, yeah. They helped you out at that time. A lot of people knew you. Kyle Kinane knew you. Yeah, a lot of great, these were great guys that came for emotional support. When you were really going through this.

Exactly. I'm sure, have you experienced the same thing where it's like, I'm talking to a degenerate right now and he's really healing my heart. Oh, no. Yeah. That's what comedy is. Except we're the degenerates healing our own hearts. It's a big degenerate bunch.

It is a big degenerate bunch. But they're sensitive guys. And then that's one of the stories that I wanted to tell was like, there is this thing that not a lot of people report on where we can help each other i know there's backstabbing and there's competition but i i don't even have to ask i'm sure you've helped people whether it's financially or emotionally or whatever it is of course and that's what makes our little scene go around yeah and even the hardest of them seemingly hardest of the people yeah are you go to a tell first. You know what I mean?

Like these are the sweethearts. What? So where it's going, I mean, we have Sarah Silverman. We have TJ Miller. We have Hannibal makes appearances. These are kind of the guest stars for the first season. Yeah. And then we watch Pete.

I like to say it's about like a breakup with his wife, a breakup with his parents. Yeah. And a breakup with his traditional understanding of God. So it's like everything falling apart slowly. How was the creative process? How did it work? Judd and I would break the stories typically. I'd pitch him a story that me and some of the writers

had come up with, and then Judd would take that and go like, a good example would be like, well, what if Pete works on a tour bus? That's a job that comedians get. And he'd be like, yeah, but you've got to get rid of your stuff, so what if pete works uh on a tour bus like that's a job that comedians get and he'd be like yeah but you got to get rid of your stuff so what if your wife has a yard sale yeah and then you just go with that you know like okay it was almost like visiting the oracle you know you go sure but it's just the two of you breaking after the writer's room yes it was often be he and i and then at sometimes do you get the board out i would just frantically be taking notes

and then i'd pitch him a story and if he liked it i'd go off and write it i i like dialogue and where'd the writers come in who was writing on it we didn't have a traditional writer's room in a sense we gathered comedians to share stories so we get the tone of what's it like going to albany and opening for a guy who's not your style of comedy and would share war stories and stuff. But then a lot of it was so personal. And I know you know what this is like. It's like, you guys,

only I can write the episode about my parents. Right. I'm not going to hear pitches on what my dad says when he says pass the ketchup because he says pass the Irish gravy. That's what he says. Right. We had a lot of uh

different heads to the monster you know yeah monster or beast or whatever you want to say i'm in the room and and their writers are trying to please me yeah i'm trying to please judd yeah and at the end of the day this is a judd apatow show right i would in fact we were joking we're like oh look at all the reviews people are really responding to the fact that pete is innocent and kind of sweet and clean. And he was like, remember you were pitching me that in the, you meet a girl and you go down on her and you start crying while you're

going down on her. Cause I thought it would be like a funny set piece. He was like, see, he didn't say it, but he was like, this is why you need me baby. And I was like,

you're fucking a right, man. And your life is good. Life is good. Just got engaged. I don't know if you know that really yeah how long you been with her i'm doing i love your you got concerned all of a sudden congratulations i don't always say the right thing right away no it was beautiful and honest i i'm doing a show about a marriage falling apart as i'm getting engaged which is very healing, actually. It feels kind of cosmically beautiful.

But we've been dating four years. Oh, yeah. And we've been living together for like two and a half almost. Oh, that's exciting. And she's the best. Oh, good. She's not in show business. She's just a sweet, excited, happy person.

And the last time I think I saw you or had a conversation with you, you were looking to buy a house or... Yeah, that's where we've been living for two years. Yep. You helped me with that. I was like, what is it? Again, you're one of my dads. I go, what's a down payment?

What's a reasonable amount of interest? And you'd be like, well, this, this, this, this. And you have a good place? I love where we live. We live in the east side. Over here? Well, not far from here. Los Feliz.

Yeah. And if I can't walk to things i'm not going oh really i'm kind of bad like that oh you still hold on to the walking i've i've managed to keep a walk life well there's only a couple places you can do that here that and this is one of them yeah that's definitely one of them you can walk to the movies you can walk to yeah no no it's like this neighborhood yeah it's that same sort of feel no movies here but yeah you can walk down there and there's people doing things. Colorful pizza places.

Yeah, sure. That happened. Yeah, that's very nice. Yeah, yeah. That all turned around. So life is kind of absurdly good. And you're touring at all or not yet? We've been touring to promote the show.

Yeah. We have one, I think it's sold out, but I don't know when this is coming out. I think we're going to put it up Thursday. Okay. Then it's over. What do you mean? What do you think? I was going to put it up Thursday. Okay. Then it's over. What do you mean? What do you think? I was going to put it up tomorrow?

No, I wasn't expecting to plug the dates, but we did a little tour with Artie and Jed and some of the other people on. Oh, yeah? Which going to Philly, man. And it's Artie fans. Oh, wow. I got off stage. I was like, they yelled, show your tits twice.

And he was like, are you kidding? That's good. He's like, you only got two. Show your tits. Wow. So they were rowdy in Philly, but they great and then new york they liked you i did okay i got back sweat i don't judge by laughs i judge by back sweat yeah philly's hard i it wasn't my favorite uh-huh i i hope to come back and i'm grateful for my fans that were there but some of the arty people were

like who is this guy i do a lot of jokes about, we're all a little bit gay as a theme through some of my jokes. And they're like, not me, bro. Yeah. Fuck you. I have a joke about like, everybody knows what a good looking man looks like. And they were like, no, we don't. Like I felt them go, no, we don't.

You were up against the Philly man thing. And Artie is like, as long as they don't, they knocked out Santa Claus at an Eagles game. He's like, you did fine. Yeah. They're crazy. Yeah. And it's really great watching Jed. I don't know if you've seen him do stand up.

No, he's great. Lately. Yeah. And I see him a lot. He's been crushing and he's doing a special and it's, and I think that's one of the reasons why for sure that we did this show was i have i pitched it to him while he was shooting train wreck yeah and when he was shooting train wreck he was going out with amy schumer to do like the cellar yeah and then i and so he was living that sort of like what's it like coming

back into the world yeah it was funny because he sort of quit doing comedy as maybe you know kind of strong middle yeah sure and now like yeah but like i at first when he was coming back around i was like oh god what's he gonna do yeah but then like he's got some great bits i love i see him a lot at the store because all i do is work the store and he's always there and we go out to eat sometimes and i watch him do his jokes and i there's a couple of jokes i'll ask him to do i like him yeah i like the jokes he's doing it's always angst it gives me anxiety when a when a famous person starts doing stand-up again or at all. But when you think of that famous person as being one of the preeminent comedy writers of our generation,

it's sort of like he knows how to write jokes. Even when he quit doing stand-up, he was writing jokes for people. Right. You know what I mean? And that's why I live-tweeted the premiere, and it was so fun to say, that was Jed. That was Jed. Oh, that's funny.

And that was Artie. Camille, do you like your life? That's one of my favorite. That's one of the best fucking punchlines ever. I enjoyed visiting your cat, by the way. That's always the secret way to Marin's. Oh, yeah, Buster's the only sociable cat I have, my new kitten.

He came and enjoyed. And he's really kind of liking people. I got him purring real fast. And as a performer, that makes me happy. Oh, happy oh good i know you can tell i was raised with cats because the command i most often give my dog is go live your life what do you want what do you want from me whatever yeah whatever yeah well you got he needs the shit you got to deal with it i know cats see cats are good people think they're assholes they're good yeah you know what i mean yeah you just it's like you know if you're not look the needy thing is you know i know i'm needy at times but like with the

pets like i like having to earn it me too yeah the dog is just giving it to you unconditional i don't really know i know you might think that i like that i like the cat no yeah like i used to do a joke i said i don't have i don't want to have a dog i i don't want anything more needy than me in my house right yeah they're very codependent yeah and your cat who knows where it gets off learning to meditate and your dog is just looking at you like what are we doing now yeah yeah yeah so what happens now you're just going to promote and then take a break or what i mean we're hoping to hear about a season two that that quickly knocking wood you know i think I'm not sure. I feel like HBO's MO is a couple episodes, two, three episodes, and maybe they'll make a decision.

And I've already been writing season two, and we've been meeting kind of informally. No pickup, but just like meeting with like Greg Fitzsimmons and Ian Edwards. Some of these guys are coming in. To write? Just to tell stories and just be like, hey, we showed them the season. It's like, where do you think this is going? What worked? What didn't work?

Oh, cool. And then, so I just sent Judd the second season premiere idea. Because I like writing it and being like, just read it and tell me if it works instead of like an outline or something. Right. And then, I mean. Did you hear back from him? Not yet. Okay.

In fact, I'm mentioning it on this podcast because I know he's going to listen and he'll be like, I got to read that. of like an outline or something right and then i mean did you hear back from him not yet okay in fact i'm mentioning it on this podcast because i know he's gonna listen and he'll be like i gotta read that i forgot he sent that i marked it as spam well congratulations mark it means it means a lot i'm happy for you i as you know you're an inspiration to me thank you i think you're great and you're killing it springsteen i'm doingen. I'm doing all right. Get the fuck out of my face. I'm doing all right. But I mean, our dynamic deserves to be, you know, we've matured a little bit, but especially. Well, I'm holding a lot in.

I don't know if that's maturity, but. You know what Jed said to me? He was like. What? He was like, tell Mark that you kind of went, you know, you're a sweet guy, obviously. You went grumpy mask. Yeah. I went happy mask.

Right. Same guy underneath. Oh. We're both afraid. That's right. We're both scared. Yes. We have compulsions. Yeah. I went happy mask. Right. Same guy underneath. Oh, he's so good. We're both afraid. That's right. We're both scared. Yes. We have compulsions.

We have issues with our families. That's a good observation by Mr. Apatow. That's what he does. I know. We pick different personas, but they're really, that's, again, that's kind of what the show's about. It's a species. I wish it was that conscious.

Yeah. I just picked this one because the other one felt so scary. Well, we picked the one that made us feel safe. Yeah. That's why this, I think you might enjoy. Duncan Trussell said this to me about our egos. Because a lot of the spiritual work I do is like trying to minimize your ego. He's like, don't fuck, don't hate your ego.

Your ego is what was there when you were scared and the world was legs. Yeah. It's all fucking grownups and they're all weird. Duncan's a poet. They got booze legs. Yeah. It's all fucking grownups and they're all weird. Duncan's a poet. They got booze breath. Yeah. They're frightening. The ego is what picked you up and protected you.

So don't send it into the woods like Harry and the Hendersons. You say, thank you. And you put them aside when you don't, when you're like, hey, take a break, go eat some bananas. It's an ongoing negotiation. That's right. Yeah. But don't fucking spit in his face.

Yeah. Or try to disconnect it totally. I was afraid and I went sweet Pete. And obviously you and I are both three-dimensional people. I have my bitter grumpy and you have your sweet happy. But the majority was what we chose to make us feel safe. Everybody wants to feel safe. Yeah.

How are we doing? I feel good. I feel good. I don't feel safe, but I feel good about talking to you. I feel a little safer than I did when I came in feel safe, but I feel good about talking to you. I feel a little safer than I did when I came in. All right. Well, thanks for coming by.

Thanks, buddy. Crashing, Pete's show is now on HBO. You can watch episode one on HBO now, and also it's on every Sunday at 10.30 p.m. There was this weird moment that actually happened when I was in Durham. I was kind of wandering around, you know, looking lost, you know, wanting to talk to people because, you know, I didn't want to sit alone in the hotel room with my own brain. And it was just an interesting moment because Jay Leno was actually performing in Durham the same night that I was so I was just wandering the street and some dude comes up to me and I initially thought that oh that's nice someone recognized me but he immediately launched into hey man I just look I was just down at the hospital I had a test I got diabetes and, like, I'm out. I'm on the street.

And I took the bus in from, you know. And then, like, I got to get back on the bus. And I need money because I only have $2. And I got to, you know, I need another few dollars to get the bus back. And, you know, I just got tests done. It was the classic I need money for a bus. It was a rendition of the I just need a couple more bucks to get my bus ticket uh um pitch which i've heard from uh many people but you know i was feeling you know a little little a little down a little open and

i generally give some money. You make those decisions in the moment, or you have a policy. I'm a momentary decision maker, but I gave the guy five bucks, and I absolutely had no belief that it would go to a bus ticket. I didn't know what it would go to, but I didn't think bus ticket was where it was going, but I was okay with that i wanted to help whatever it was he needed to feed or wherever he needed to travel or whatever but then he started walking with me he's like thanks man he's like just walking with me and he goes i just saw jay leno i just i just talked to jay leno he was just hanging out so

not only did he not know who i was which is fine uh but I did give him some money and that's fine too but now he's gonna tell me that he was talking to Jay Leno and I'm like oh yeah he's a nice guy right yeah he's a nice guy yeah he's just walking down the street you know and he I just said hey I like you I like you Jay Leno and and I'm like uh I said uh did he give you any money and he goes no no but you know, he's probably just got a credit card. And I was like, yeah, yeah, that's probably it. I don't know what that story means, but somehow in that moment, there's two ways to go with it. Or a mark. Or stupid. Because I knowingly gave some money to somebody who was lying to me. And seemed to be pretty chipper.

Maybe not. I don't know. But in that moment, I chose to feel superior to Jay Leno. That's where I went with that. Yeah. That's who I was that day. In that minute. Nora Jones.

I never thought I'd minute. Nora Jones. I never thought I'd talk to Nora Jones, but here we are. Her most recent album, her sixth solo record is called Day Breaks. She's on a tour throughout March. You can go to norajones.com. This is me and Nora Jones talking. Jones talking.

You know, I went through this flurry of insanity this morning just to clean the house. I didn't want you to walk into a house full of cat shit. Oh, please. You haven't seen my house. My house is a mess. Is it? Yeah, it's like stressing me out. I go to bed when the kids go to bed just so I don't have to be in the stressful part of the house.

And I just hide in my bedroom. Just hoping that it'll clean itself. Just hoping, just pretending like the mess isn't there. Some fairy will come and clean the mess. Pretty much. How many kids? I have two. They're nine months and almost three.

Oh my God. So it's chaos all the time. Yeah, it's just a little chaotic. Relentless. Yeah, it's all good. It's exciting? Yeah, they're sweet and awesome. And you live in Brooklyn?

Yeah. So do you come out here much? Yeah, to work, but I never end up having as much time as I'd like to have to just enjoy California. Yeah. Where did you grow up? I grew up outside of Dallas, Texas, in Grapevine, Texas. But you weren't born there? No, I was born in New York.

Like in... In the Like in, in like. In the city. Yeah. Yeah. And then I, I lived in the city until I was maybe three or four and then we moved down to Texas. Not a lot of big memories of the cities. I have a couple of weird, like my first memory is a dream about being in a playground in Washington Square Park and biting my lip off.

But other than that, no. Really? Yeah. That was weird. Vivid memory. That has stuck with you? Yeah. And why did you guys decide to go to Dallas? Have you done any research on that? My mom is from Oklahoma. Really? And she went to college in Dallas. So I think it was just kind of like going home without having to go back to Oklahoma. Right.

Yeah. And your dad is Ravi Shankar. Yeah. But you didn't really get along with him for a while. Well, I mean, it's not that I didn't get along with him. I saw him here and there for sure when I was a baby. I don't really remember all that. I probably spent the most time with him then. Yeah. And then over the years, I would see him sporadically.

And then after I was like nine, I didn't see him till I was 18. And then we became really close. Really really until he died a few years ago and so it like from age 18 on i had a i had i worked really hard on my relationship with him and he did too and and oh that's better so you got to know him yeah and i was you know it's lucky because he he was old then and he ended up he was old when he had you he was actually so i'm i'm thankful that he you know, it's lucky because he was old then and he ended up, you know. He was old when he had you? He was actually. So I'm thankful that he, you know, he stuck around and he was in good shape and he played and I get to see him play a ton. Yeah, I have, like, I have gotten into some of his music somehow. That stuff, do you find that that, not that it's genetic, but that any of that stuff registers with you?

It's a really funny thing for me because I've always kind of been, music has always come very natural to me. Right, right. But not Indian music necessarily, but country music. Sure. Growing up in Texas, hearing all the stuff my grandparents were listening to in Oklahoma. I think definitely I have a musical ability for my genetics. I think I've got to, cause I've, it's always just felt very natural. I've talked to Derek Trucks about, you know, that weird primal space of those kind of, that type of music. And there's a couple of musics that just do that, where your brain just kind of

drops into something that doesn't require any definition at all and you just you're just in this primal zone do you that's like i i think it's pretty like if you have that genetically if you can feel that i think that's the core of music somehow yeah that makes sense or am i just reading into it no no that makes a lot of sense i mean for me, music is at its best when you're not thinking about it at all. What did your mother do? What was she sort of doing with her life when you were growing up? She was a script supervisor in film when I was born. Yeah.

And in Texas, I think she did that for a couple years. And then she went back to school to get her real estate license. Ah, start selling the real estate. Yeah, so I went to a lot of empty, abandoned houses with her growing up and like did cartwheels in these weird living rooms. Waiting for, you know, sort of hopeful looking couples. Yeah, hoping a serial killer didn't come the night when we were getting ready for the house, open house.

Yeah, she had like the first generation of a cell phone because she was nervous to go out at night to these houses. I remember just it was so big and weird. Giant cell phone. Yeah. Yeah, so she was a real estate agent for like five years or something. Is she still around? Yeah, she's here helping me out with kids in LA.

Oh, you brought the kids? Yeah. Oh my God. I know. You're traveling with those kids? Yeah. You have to deal with the contemptful look of other passengers as you enter the plane. Yeah.

Anything goes on the plane. They can watch anything they want. They can eat any kind of food they want as long as they stay quiet. It's so funny. It doesn't bother me as much as some people, the screaming child, really. That's good for you. But it's very funny that a lot of times they don't start screaming until like right when you're landing. I know.

I think, yeah. It's the ear thing. It's probably a pressure thing. Probably the ear thing. My kids tend to fall asleep right when we're landing. Oh, they fall asleep. So they cry the whole way? No.

They've been pretty good. I can't. I got to touch wood there. Oh, good. Yeah. So in Texas, Texas is very specific. It sure is. It's like its own country, right?

It is. I grew up in New Mexico. And I've grown to like a lot of places that I've judged because they are unique. Yeah. But Texas really is its own country. It is. So did you feel like when you were growing up that you were a Texan? I did.

You did? Yeah. Or I didn't think about it growing up. Right. But once I moved to New York, I really owned it and I missed it. And I think I got more into country music. I mean, I think it was always in the water kind of and in my house playing. But I really got deep into it when I moved away from Texas when I was 20 and I moved to New York.

And that's when I really. You did a country record, right? Basically, almost. I've done a few, yeah. Because I noticed, noticed, what was I listening to the other day? Did you cover I'll Be Your Baby Tonight, that Dylan song? Oh yeah, I did. That was like a B-side.

Yeah, and you did some Hank Williams songs. Yeah, and I have a couple different country bands I'm in and they're real fun. And how do you... So when did you start getting into music? When did you feel like that was your mode of expression? How did that, uh, reveal itself? I guess it just kind of happened.

I sing in church choir probably was the first thing when you were like five or five. And it were people like, Oh my God, she should be Nora Jones. No, not quite but i will say i was very um i was kind of you know i didn't get shy and self-conscious until i was 11 or something so when i was little like that and the choir teacher would tell us to open our mouths and sing out yeah and i took it very literally and i did it yeah yeah and then i ended up getting a lot of solos you know right because i had you maybe i had confidence. Right. And I had good pitch, probably a combination. And then I was in church choir until I was a lot older.

And then I was in school choirs. But I started taking piano lessons when I was about seven, too. And how did that, did that seem easy? I immediately wanted to quit because I really did not want to practice all these dang scales. Nobody does. God, I hated all the practice. What's with the practicing? Did your mom make you? She did something which, in retrospect, was pretty cool.

She said, well, you begged me for piano lessons. I gave them to you. You can't quit for five years because at least if you ever want to go back, you'll have a little bit of a base, like a foundation. Did she play anything? No. But she was in musical theater. She was a dancer till she broke her ankle in college she was in musical theater how long was she with your dad i think like nine years well so she knew music

she knew that world always loved music i mean growing up in my house was all ray charles and aretha franklin all the time really yeah that was her jam not Not a lot of country. Where'd you get the country? She liked country. A lot of Willie Nelson, but a lot of soul music. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I got the country probably from my grandparents. And they lived in Dallas? Oklahoma.

So you had to go to Oklahoma. Like, this is, like, it's very interesting because you seem, there's some, like, urban element to the Nora Jones thing. But obviously, your music is popular throughout the world with all types of people but I I somehow associate you because I don't know you and I you know I just met you I just read about you as like this jazz person I know I wouldn't say that's the most accurate label but you know because like so where do they live in Oklahoma Lawton so you drove you drive up there yeah with your mom

yeah we'd listen to you know Linda Ronstadt and Willie Nelson yeah yeah like George Jones any George Jones tons of George Jones

how is he he's like the best oh my god it's amazing to this day when I listen to that music it's it hits me in a way

that that is nostalgic and reminds me of when music does that to you and it takes you back to being a kid. And certain music takes you back to different places. But that stuff goes really deep for me because of my childhood. Yeah, George Jones is like, and his singing is so wild. So beautiful. Have you like, I can't, why is he such a great singer? I don't, why is he such a great singer? Is it?

I don't know. Because it's specific. There's like the way that he harmonizes and stuff. Yeah. Are you like a music? He's got those little turns in his voice. It's like those little twizzles that Dolly also has. Right.

That you just do them. They're not like something, I mean, you can practice them and imitate people. That's how you learn them, I guess. But they're just these little isms that do you ever deconstruct it though like where does that come from is that like a appalachian thing is it an irish thing is it like how far back does it go do you get lost in that shit no i don't i don't think about stuff like that too much i just sort of listen to it i guess not your job yeah let the critics do that exactly that's their job have they done that to you have they have they tracked your your what you are the legacy of in writing i don't know maybe a little i think i think i stopped paying attention to that stuff pretty

early on because you know that you can get too deep in that and then just your head is full of weirdness and right because you you're already probably self-conscious on some level and that just adds exactly now you're self-conscious in the language of that smart guy exactly maybe i am doing that maybe i am you know i went to college i went to high school i went to this amazing performing arts high school that's kind of where i really got deep into jazz and fell in love with it and started playing it. And then I went to college for jazz, like jazz. So you started out in church choir and you're singing like that stuff. Well, yeah, elementary school, that was all church choir.

And then when I got to junior high, I quit piano after five years, exactly. Because I was like, it's the day, mom. I'm i'm out peace i just was so bad at practicing i had the sweetest teacher but i just could not take that you know but i had a great foundation i had all these theory classes growing up so that's in your head yeah so i had a great education for music so i was naturally predisposed to music and i was highly musically educated right because it was a really cool program where they taught you theory and everything this is in high school no this is elementary really yeah and so i quit and you can read music real well not anymore i haven't practiced at it lately but but i mean i could read music yeah but i wasn't like great at classical

music i love listening to it is beautiful but i just don't have that discipline so what happens in junior high so i quit piano yeah and my mom took me to some big band concert at university of north texas just a general big band concert general big band concert old style swing yeah kind of stan kenton whatever kind of but you know they do a lot of progressive stuff too like newer stuff too but i just it different, and I never really checked it out. All those instruments. All those instruments, all the dudes. It was awesome. Rock and roll dudes get into music for chicks.

I was like this little girl looking at this big band. I was boy crazy. I was totally boy crazy. This sounds a little weird, but I really was. I loved the music so much and i thought it was so cool and there was this one blonde chick and i don't know who it was actually i wish i knew her name and she was like a graduate student she was directing the band i was like yeah she's that's cool she's conducting she's conducting yeah yeah but um i don't know i just

dug it it was cool and so my mom got me a saxophone, and I joined the band in school, and I ended up doing marching band in high school. Really? Before I went to the performing arts high school. Did you have an outfit? It's the most sad, scary picture. I might have burned it, but I think it might be on the walls of Grapevine High School still. With a hat? Oh, yes.

And in Texas, it was so hot. And we were marching in August in these polyester suits. It was like people were passing out, like left and right, just dropping like flies. Like what were you playing? Like Watermelon Man or like? Actually, we did Chicago, the music of Chicago. Oh, yeah? That band.

Yeah. Actually, Chicago is pretty badass. Good horn section. Yeah. Good horn section. Yeah, great horn section. It was great for a marching band. So, did you become good at sax? I mean, I got a solo in the band thing, which I totally messed up when it came time to perform it. But you couldn't really, like, did you, like, I guess neither on piano or on saxophone you could find, you couldn't improvise, really?

I mean, I was, yeah, I was pretty young still. I was just getting there. And then my mom hooked me up with this cool piano teacher in Dallas named Julie Bonk, who is a jazz musician. And she opened my mind to just playing chords instead of reading notes and reading a chord chart and improvising over these chords and learning which scales to play over them. And she started me off doing that, which was pretty awesome.

So it was a whole change of thinking. Yeah, totally different way of thinking about music. And she encouraged me to write songs, which I did, and I hated because they were so piano-y and I stopped immediately. They were so bad. But then my mom got me into this um arts magnet high school so jazz like you know when she when someone introduces you to jazz i like i like jazz i

have a brain for it i'm afraid to go down that rabbit hole because if you it's just huge it's huge and there's no way i can nerd out to that degree at this age and i don't have i don't have enough years left but i can listen to it. And I'm always amazed when I'm like, you know, this sounds different. Because like Lee Morgan, which I was just playing, I never knew that guy until like a month ago. Oh, yeah. And someone gives me a Lee Morgan album and I'm like, and I just put it on without really

any preconceptions, no research. And I'm like, this guy's got his own thing. And it's hard to identify that with bebop trumpet. Yeah. You know, like there are guys, there thing. And it's hard to identify that with bebop trumpet. Yeah. You know, like there are guys, there's Miles and there's other people that play horns. But when someone's sort of like, oh, you know, because the jazz riff, the bass line is what it is.

But for someone to stand out, it's like, holy shit. Yeah, but there's great bass players who stand out. I know. Just playing bass, you know. But you got to have the mind for it. Because I imagine to some people, it's like, oh, that mind for it because i imagine to some people it's like no that shit sounds the same yeah some people it does yeah but i bet if even those people if you play them like really choice cuts right even they would be moved and maybe not but well what did

that piano teacher show you at that time like what did she play for you that was like made you understand that she she mostly showed me how to think about it differently but i remember my mom when i started getting into jazz yeah she she went to the library and she rented the smithsonian jazz collection it was like this great compilation of all the best stuff you know and um we totally dubbed it on cassette tape and i oh i remember that it was my bible i dubbed it on cassette and you had it and you hope it didn't break yeah and i had like maybe four cassettes because it was a huge collection and it was kind of my bible for a while do you remember who was on it or what songs made the impression everybody was on it but well not everybody but a lot of great stuff but i remember this charles

mingus cut um haitian fight song yeah and i've since tried to like listen to it recently and I didn't realize it was like a weird live version that wasn't the most common version that comes up when you try to find it. Yeah. But I used to do interpretive dance in my bedroom to it and it's just the coolest. And then this Billie Holiday version of These Foolish Things. I mean, it just rips your heart out. Yeah.

And Oscar Peterson's playing piano. I mean, it was just great music. And those two stand out in your head. Those two were my jams. Yeah. Yeah. And like, well, it's funny because at that moment where, you know,

you'd played some sax, you'd done some piano, you could sing that, you know, there was probably a moment there where interpretive dance might've been it. Like, you know, you- It could have, it should have. it. Like, you know, you. It could have. It should have. Yeah.

You probably made the right choice in terms of a career that earns you money. Maybe. I don't know. Jazz musician, not high on the list usually. You've done all right. I've done great. I've been lucky. Well, I think that, I don't know why that is.

You know, I don't, well, I guess I understand why it is, but because it is so specific, but it does, there is so much range within jazz, but it still takes a certain kind of person to move around popular music and to get into that stuff, to support it properly. Because when you go to a jazz show, I mean, I saw Kamasi, you know, when he finished his tour here, it goes like his hometown show. It was crazy. Yeah, but he's a rock star now. Good.

And that's great. It's good for jazz, right? It's great for everyone in all respects. Yeah. I'm just saying most jazz musicians don't have that reception. I know. I heard from some of them. Yeah.

Having been in comedy for a long time, I understand bitterness. You do. There's a lot of, yes. Oh. You do. There's a lot of, yes. Oh my God, there's a real parallel there. You're right. Well,

yeah, because, you know, I got a few emails that sort of like, you know, Kamasi's fine, but maybe you should

do your homework. Yeah, maybe you should check this guy out. Yeah, right. This guy's been at it a lot longer.

I call them the jazz police. I think that's their, their, their cult. But you know what? Much respect to them. You know, it's really hard to do something you love so much and just get no credit for.

I mean, I get it. Yeah, it's brutal. I can't imagine. I mean, and I think that's a big reason why I kind of stopped playing jazz. I mean, I love that music. But I wasn't really writing songs that were that style. And eventually when I finally got back into songwriting, it was because I had a guitar in my room. And because everything else sounded too piano-y to me.

Yeah. I played it on the piano and I played like, I knew four chords on a guitar. That's all you need. When I moved to New York and I wrote songs that were totally country. Oh, there's the art guy. I don't think it'll take long. That's fine. We're just going to keep talking right don't think it'll take long. That's fine. We're just going to keep talking right through it.

I'll talk louder. It's improvisation. Yeah. That's our baseline. Exactly. It's percussive, but it's hard to work with. Yeah. Well, it's also interesting as a vocalist in jazz

that I don't, like the limitations are sort of specific, right? I mean, you know, we're, outside of being able to do what a vocalist does in any form, you know, where do you really, you know, how much can you improvise and take it out there? Well, it depends on what you're doing. Yeah. I was never the kind of vocalist, I mean, I tried scat singing and I did that in high school and college. I was in these groups, but it just wasn't for me.

Yeah. You know, and in terms of playing music that's more out there, I love a lot of it. Yeah. I love Miles Davis in a Silent Way. That's one of my favorite albums of all time. Yeah, yeah. But, and I know maybe someday I'll do something like that, but I don't know. I mean, when I was singing, I was just drawn to songs.

Sure. Simple songs. Right. And so, yeah, you can take them out there. You can rephrase them. You can do all kinds of shit. But it's better if you just sing them from your heart and make the lyrics come to life. And whatever happens with the notes happens.

Right. You know, that's what I've learned over the years. Yeah. Is that you can try to take things out, but that usually sounds a little contrived. Right, right. You don't want to be a showboat where you're just sort of like tricks. It's tricks. Tricks.

Like it's better to just convey the lyric heartfelt. Yeah. You know. And when you say like you tried scat singing. Oh my God. But is that like. Skiddley a do bop. Right.

But is that like when you do scat singing do you try to integrate it into everything you sing like you know i or it seems like i didn't go too far into it but i mean i have a girlfriend who can do it really well actually and when somebody can do it do it well and is like owning it and and believes in it and does it amazing with all the breath and everything yeah i know ella fitzgerald i mean she did it and does it amazingly. With all the breath and everything? I mean, I know Ella Fitzgerald. I mean, she did it. I love it. Sure.

I love it. But, I mean, I don't need, I can't do it. It's one of those weird things that, like, there's only a few people that really do it. That you want to hear do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I'd rather just try to take a piano solo, you know? Sure.

So when do you start, like, cavorting with jazz musicians what was this experience in performance arts high school like is it like was it the texas version of fame i mean there were a few people like that yeah but it was what disciplines were there because like that's an immersion yeah into creativity and expression i mean that's the point of those things is i imagine you've got theater over here and yes over there right yeah it's theater dance um visual arts and then uh yeah so everybody's sort of there everybody's there but everybody has their concentration so if you're a dancer you're a dancer yeah so you wanted to be a music major i want i mean i knew I played music.

I think I auditioned for visual arts too because I just wanted to get into the school so bad. Visual arts like what? Oh, you did? I painted some and I made jewelry. I took this metal working class once. You soldered things? I soldered things.

I still have my 90s rings from that era. They're pretty chunky. But so I got in for music and I always wanted to take a dance class because i went to this summer camp in michigan in junior high interlochen it's a big arts camp and i took a dance class just for fun and it was so fun but at my high school it was more just like the people who did dance did the dance sure people who did the music did the music and did they did you combine were there like what did you back dancers was there that inter

i don't remember that happening um and if it did i maybe i wasn't involved the only time that did happen was was whenever we did the we did this black history program one february and everybody was it was just extracurricular so we were were all doing it. And I played Billie Holiday and I sang Strange Fruit, which was crazy and amazing. How old were you? I was maybe 16. Wow. I didn't know that song.

When they said somebody needs to play Billie Holiday, I went in to audition in front of everybody and I was so nervous. And you just chose that song? I didn't choose that song. I didn't know that song yet. Yeah. And then she was like, great, you got the't know that song yet. Yeah. And then she's

like, great, you got the part. The song is Strange Fruit. And I was like, cool, what's that? And then she schooled me on it. And I was like, whoa, this is heavy. It is heavy. It's very heavy. What was your experience singing that song for the first time? I think I was so young and I was so, you know, in my head probably. And we did four nights of shows and the director nedra james was a pretty amazing human and teacher yeah and she helped me kind of realize that it's not about fruit being yeah well yeah but i mean it's not about being in my head and singing it right it's about the emotion did you cry um i don't think i cried i think i was too nervous to cry i don't know how singers don't cry all the time it seems emotional i mean some people do yeah i know some what singers

who cry a lot really yeah during the song or after after usually no not during after after i yeah the the vulnerability of singing is really kind of mind-blowing to me let me go see where he's at with that yeah let's just give him three minutes yeah no problem i didn't it's it's it happens it's not bothering me at all but i think it might bother the listener whatever i draw i draw attention to it it's happened before but usually in my mind i'm like that'll only be a couple minutes. But here we are talking about one of the most powerful songs ever written, and it's like, brr. Yeah, that's true.

Strange Root. Yeah, and then there's just a leaf blower blasting away. Well, what's your relationship with Billie Holiday? She was one of my early favorites, and I mean, I was pretty obsessive listening to her growing up. Yeah.

But I don't know if I got that layer of pain or depth until later. You know, I... In terms of accessing it, I mean, you didn't have to live that life. You didn't get strung out

and busted. Yeah, exactly. In terms of just realizing how deep it went, you know. How do you realize that stuff as a singer? You don't have to realize all the pain to really let it touch you, I guess. You know what I mean?

No, I understand that. You don't have to live it to interpret it. Yeah. In that, you know, all you can do as an artist is, I think, engage your own heart to, you know, whatever your capacity is. Exactly. And it touches you in whatever way it touches you. Sure. And I think that what it conveys coming out of you is going to be different.

I mean, I guess that's the power of being an interpreter as a vocalist. And that's why people can relate to the same thing in their own way. So you go through this program in high school. And then you continue to study you're singing you're doing you're learning that you have this natural talent and that you can apply it and and all that you learn to play guitar four chords at some point yeah and then what do you do for college i went to north texas um which is real texas woman yeah well hey man state school sure get you. It was too expensive to go to where I wanted to go to the new school or right. Go to New York.

Yeah. I wanted to go to New York since I was so young. Yeah. Yeah. So, so when you go to college, what is it just more specifically music? It's I,

I was a jazz piano major. Really? So you went back to the piano. I actually, I was in high school is also a jazz piano major. Cause we had to have like a so after you quit the lessons you still did it back yeah i went back with that jazz teacher julie and then i i did piano in in high school yeah i was quit for maybe a year and that's when

i kind of started playing the saxophone and then started realizing that that wasn't really my thing so you're you you go to college and you're playing the piano you're jazz piano now are you who are your heroes of jazz piano like who like like bill evans yeah yeah what about what about monk punk punk oh my god he's the best i mean yeah there's a lot of that bunk bunk but there's some really beautiful stuff and and uh duke ellington those are my three big well that's pretty good range they're're all so good. You go from like traditional to bebop to like out there. Yeah, but they all, you know, me, I'm like a ballad lover.

And so I, you know, I tend to gravitate towards a lot of their more mellow, more melodic stuff. And when do you really figure out playing and singing? I think that first year I was in college, I got this gig at this Italian restaurant called Popolo's in Dallas. Yeah. And I would do every Friday and Saturday night playing and singing. Yeah. Well, it was mostly a piano gig, but they let me sing because they liked the way I sang. So this was your first paid musician gig?

Yeah. I got a hundred bucks every night plus tips. And sometimes I would get a lot of tips and sometimes I would get no tips. Then I got a free meal. But this was your job you're like i'm a working musician i'm playing an italian i'm in the corner it was awesome because i didn't have to get a job in college because that job actually paid my rent and everything really and were you writing songs at the time no yeah you're just doing traditional i still was afraid of writing songs because of my horribly embarrassing songwriting in high school on the piano.

Scarred. Scarred. Yeah. I thought I was cheesy. Too cheesy. It must be hard to really figure that out, to cross the line. Yeah. Because I imagine that you probably think some of your bigger songs might be a little cheesy sometimes in retrospect or no?

I don't know. I mean. I'm not saying that they are. What are you saying? No, no, no. I'm just saying that as are. What are you saying? No, no, no. I'm just saying that as an insecure, creative person, when I look back at my stuff, it's hard for me not to be like, well, that was me. I know.

Yeah, I'm different now. I'm way cooler now. Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't have done that turn of phrase that way. Certainly, there's things like that, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, in college, I was just working on playing piano. Do people come up to you and go like, I saw you at the Italian restaurant? No, because it yeah, yeah. But, yeah, in college I was just working on playing piano. Do people come up to you and go, like, I saw you at the Italian restaurant?

No, because it was pretty far. But people were jealous. I had guys who would sub for me if I couldn't do it. And it was a good gig because of the money and, you know, the food. Sure. And it was short. It was like two and a half, three hours. And that's really, it's really, I mean, I could sing and I could play the piano, but

it was really like, you know, chewing gum and walking, whatever. It's like juggling, yeah. It's like that moment where you learn how to not be conscious of it. Yeah, putting it together took a minute, for sure. And so that was the best practice I could ever have because I'm a horrible practicer. I've never been good at just sitting in a room and practicing. So for me, like a shitty gig is the best practice. Really? You didn't, you. And by shitty gig, I mean a gig, like a low pressure gig, you know. That's interesting. You never, you weren't a big

practicer. I'm just not good at it. And I think that's why I was drawn to jazz because of the improvisation and nothing has to be perfect. Right. It could be loose and you can vibe it out and you can feel how you're feeling. Right. But your education was in place. You knew where you were going and how it worked. Yeah, I knew how it worked. Sure. I just didn't want to

Why ruin it with over practice? Of course, there's some amazing jazz musicians who lock themselves in a room and practice all day

every day and they're amazing but that's why I never had a ton of chops because I don't practice that much. Thank God you had a voice, right?

Yeah, it was kind of nice the way it lays out and just kind of put them together and they equal something good. Well, I think that I'm a strong believer in being skilled and knowing your talent and not over-ringing it. Like, I believe that.

Because I think that there's an impulsive rawness there that, you know, you can't get when you're over-practiced. That's how I've always felt. I hate rehearsing. My bands are always laughing at me because they want to like practice the song one more time i'm like no yeah you guys do it i hate rehearsing so much because it like because it it's it it's hard i would imagine even in touring that to drift into autopilot if you can get away with it You may not be one to do that. No, it's so nice to play a song and be spontaneous. Right.

And being on tour, you have to find your groove within all that, within playing a lot of the same songs every night and try to get your energy from the audience and change it up without just trying to change it on purpose and still being heartfelt about it. Sure, you don't want to be like Bob Dylan where people are going like what song is this and you're 20 minutes

into something exactly yeah I appreciate him more and more as a performance artist he's so good yeah exactly he really is a good one oh he's great yeah like he's just like some days it's fuck you yeah you know

yet he still does it. Have you met him? He still goes out on tours. He lives out there. Yeah. I mean, he must love it. It's something. I don't think.

Like it's maintaining that connection. Yeah. You know, with an audience is like something in what I do that if I get away from that. Yeah. You know, you can get scared. Yeah. Then you get nervous. Right. All of a sudden. But if you're out there doing it all the time. Yeah. You know, you can get scared. Yeah. Then you get nervous. Right.

All of a sudden. But if you're out there doing it all the time, it becomes your rapport and then you're loose and you can try new things. Right. And you're not too scared to do that. So when do you make the jump to like, you know, being the big jazz bow person? I mean, after college, what happens for you that leads to that huge first record? Well, I dropped out of college because.

Well, maybe my second year in college, I realized I was taking all my music classes and none for you that leads to that huge first record well i dropped out of college because really well i maybe my second year in college i realized i was taking all my music classes and none of my academics that i needed for my degree and i think what was the degree the jazz studies but you still got to take english and sure what all the else right you know i didn't take any of that yeah i took all my music classes in the first two years and you're like i'm done i got what i needed well i was like faced with the reality if if I want to get a degree, then I'm going to have to really hate all this for a while. And I also failed my classical piano jury, my first one.

Yeah. I was like, all right, I'm going to go to New York for the summer and see how it is. And I had the 71 Sedan DeVille Cadillac from high school. My mom was nervous about me driving in Texas. So here's a tank. Yeah, because the speed limit is like 80 miles per hour. And there's a lot of open road back then.

Yeah, it's a lot. So she wanted me to have a tank. So I had this awesome Cadillac. Yeah. And my sophomore year, or my freshman year actually, one of the older musicians said, Hey, there's these guys at the the marriott they they're coming to do a clinic these musicians from new york can

you go pick them up you have the only car big enough for all the gear yeah and so my cadillac kind of was fate for me and i picked up these musicians and it was kenny walson and mark johnson was doing a bass clinic and yeah uh I meet these two guys who are just kind of friends with them and traveling cross country and met them there. This is in Denton, Texas, where I went to college. And their names are Jesse Harris and Richard Julian. And they all got a kick out of me because I had this Cadillac and I'm like this little, you know, 19 year old jazz piano major.

And I'm like, cool, I'll show you around town. Here's the record store. And they're trying to show me cool records. I'm like, I know that one. And they just thought they got a kick out of me right you know what a pip this yeah who's this girl you know and then um so I'm sitting there at the clinic with these two songwriters uh these two guys that were just kind of tagging along with the jazz musicians I was like so what do you guys do and they're like we're songwriters and I'm like what is what the heck who are you? I've never heard

fancy pants. I've never heard of that as a profession. I didn't even think that far ahead. And so they're these singer songwriters in New York. And I ended up later that summer going on a trip to New York and visiting them. Who were they? Are they people? Jesse and Richard. They're just New York songwriters. Still around? Yeah, definitely. And they kind of changed my world around. And then the next summer when I ended up moving to New York and dropping out of college, they kind of showed me around. And I ended up doing a band with Jesse, and my country band is with Richard.

And Jesse wrote Don't Know Why, which was my big breakout hit. And so my first record was a lot of Jesse's songs and only a couple of my songs and a lot of my bass player Lee Alexander songs. Jesse's songs and only a couple of my songs and a lot of my bass player, Lee Alexander songs. And it was my first time really sort of trying to explore just like songwriting and different experimenting with different styles. And so when you said it ended up just being my first record. So with Jesse, I mean, that's a tremendous opportunity, obviously, for a young songwriter.

And I mean, I don't guess either of you knew what was going to happen no clue and and what was because you said when you met them you're like oh that's a thing and and and like wow that's a job that's a world so you get into this world yeah and how closely did you work with him on those first songs well i mean i mean i we we basically started playing he got first thing he did was to get me to sing some demos of his songs uh-huh and i put one of those demos on this set of jazz demos that i ended up taking to blue note records uh-huh because some uh this woman this mutual friend's wife worked at emi and she saw me singing jazz standards in New York, which is what I was doing at first. Where? At like restaurants, like the garage.

So you're like a lounge singer. Kind of, but it's more like jazz brunch. I mean, this is why I kind of stopped doing those gigs and started playing in the singer songwriter clubs where I didn't get any money, but I got an excited audience, even if it was 20 people. It's interesting that that world that you kind of like, there's a benefit to having the experience of performing for audiences

but there is a cheesiness to that. Like I talked to Joanna Newsome about playing harp which is a very limited bit of business. Exactly. Like, you know, either you're going to play at a brunch or a weird event,

be the harpist in the corner where you can figure out how to get out of that. Exactly. But you can stay there for life. Yep, and many do. Yeah. And I wasn't quite on the level of playing

at the cool jazz clubs where there were good audiences there. But where did the EMI woman see you? The garage. It's like a place in the West Village, Jazz Brunch. She asked if I want to meet with Bruce Lundvall at Blue Note Records.

And he's the big shot? Yeah, and I'm like, well, hell yeah. Did you know who he was and everything? I knew a lot about Blue Note and I knew he was the big shot there. Had he been for a long time? I don't know the history of Blue Note. He had been and he ended up being a real good mentor and one of my best friends. So he had been, you know, ushering jazz into the world for decades kind of thing?

Kind of. He revived Blue Note in the 80s. Okay. And did all those reissues, I imagine. He did all those reissues. Well, yeah, and then brought a lot of great music. In the 90s, jazz had this great kind of resurgence. Yeah.

And I played him a couple demos, plus this song of Jesse's I had done, and he's like, do you want to be a jazz singer or a pop singer? Because that Jesse song is kind of different. That's not really jazz. Yeah. And I'm thinking, well, I moved here.

I've been wanting to be a jazz singer for the past eight years or whatever. Yeah. And so he gave me, he could tell I couldn't quite, I didn't quite know what I wanted to do yet. He gave me some money to do some demos. Uh-huh. And so I did some demos. Yeah. And I was like, well, I could do all these jazz songs, but Billie Holiday did them great already.

Right. Right. And, you know, a gazillion people since have done them. Right. And so let's explore. We have this money to do these demos. Let's explore this project I got with Jesse and Lee. And so I had a couple songs to throw into the mix, my four-chord guitar songs.

Yeah. And even though I'm playing piano on it, and we do these demos, and they kind of end up becoming my first record. And he decides that he wants to sign me, and we finish them. And that's the thing for my first record. That was a Blue Note record. It was a Blue Note record, and so it got pigeonholed as jazz. And there were jazz moments on it for sure. Sure.

And that's where I come from. But not all of it, I could say, was completely jazz. I mean, there was just songs. You were this perfect storm of of maybe bringing those worlds together yeah i definitely wasn't a straight up you know avant-garde jazz record at all no but even even if it were standards it would not have done what it did yeah standards have been done and they're beautiful and you've done some it's fine i love them yeah but the choice

to kind of go with this other thing and bring all the you know your history with jazz into it created this record that was huge yeah it was bananas that's my new favorite word because my son just thinks bananas are funny so so but like that at that time i mean that thing won like five grammy awards it like it was a huge selling record. It probably still sells. I just bought it. So, but I actually have, I actually bought it like six or seven. I don't know when I bought it, but I had it.

When did I buy that record? It was 2002. That's when it came out. That's when it came out. And then the Grammys happened about a year later at 2003. What happens then? You go out on tour. Yeah. You have the biggest record in the world. You have all this amazing attention. And that first tour, when you

look out into that, those audiences, who were you seeing? I don't know. I mean, the audiences grew, grew, grew. It was a pretty random selection. Really? Yeah. I mean, there were a lot of older people. There were a lot of younger people. It was very random. And I think we were just on tour pretty much constantly for about a year and a half, maybe two years. That's what you do, right? Yeah. And we were riding the wave. And I had a few little nervous breakdowns along the way. Anything major?

Not too bad. I'm pretty together. But for me, it was like a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. How old were you? I was 22 when it came out and then i was 23 when it like was crazy and dealing with stuff in the press and my dad and my mom and that was stuff i didn't wasn't really prepared to deal with what they put

the press was bringing it up or you were just dealing with that personally? Just personally. I had just gotten to know my dad again and I was having a great time, you know, being super close with him. But, you know, family history and stories and specifics don't translate in small snippets in the press. And it's not like nobody was happy. Really? Yeah. My family was always giving me shit on both sides just for what exactly it's nothing bad i mean it's not their fault it's not their fault it's just it became you know oh absent father it's like well that's not completely you know

it's complex it's a family you know family stuff is complex and it is but when you regroup with with your father or you make the choice choice to have that relationship once it seems that achieving your own success might have had some part in you feeling like a whole person and able to do that. Yeah, or the headline reads, oh, the daughter of, and then my mom's like, well, what about me? I did all the hard work. That's what I'm saying. It was like, oh, my God. I'm caught in the middle of that. it's a trickier story i understand her her uh resentment i yeah i do too and it's all good now but it was it was tough at the time for me to just kind of

like yeah it's hard when you have a father that you know showed the beatles exactly what of course people want to talk about what indian music is exactly and change the entire trajectory of george harrison's mind yeah that that's sort of rich exactly you get it yeah and did she ever find peace with it oh yeah she i mean i mean my mom cooked dinner for my my dad and my stepmom many times over the last 10 years of his life. And it's all good. But, you know, in the beginning, it was just weird. Well, yeah, I bet. It was weird having all that. And also having this amazing.

Right. And then alongside of that, you're having this amazing success. Yes. And you got to deal with this like, oh, my God. It was so weird. But it was great. I mean, I was so lucky. And I mean, there were amazing moments meeting Ray Charles.

You played with him, right? I got to play with him after. But the first time I met him, it was some Elton John tribute show. I got to meet Elton John, too. It was amazing. But I remember meeting Ray Charles in some parking lot and just bawling my eyes out. Really? Yeah.

How did that happen? Well, he played. And so he was leaving. And I was just there. So I got to meet him. Did you run out into the parking lot? No, I think his manager, at the time I was already doing really well. So his manager let us meet.

And then I got to sing with him after that. I mean, it was incredible. Oh, what did you sing? I sang, with him, I sang that old tune. It was on that Duets album um here we go again it's an old one he recorded back in the day but and getting to open up for Willie Nelson right before my record came out when nobody knew who I was the first record yeah that was the biggest deal because he's my ultimate hero right Willie yeah yeah I mean talk about a jazz guitar player

I mean he plays like Django it's's unbelievable. Yeah. That his guitar playing is unbelievable. Yeah. And he's kind of like my idol. And he's the perfect example of someone who, to me, is genre-less, even though he's so country. Right. And also jazz. Which record do you gravitate towards the most?

Red Hood Stranger. Right. I grew up on it. That's such an amazing thing, that record. So good. And then I got there. There was a box of his rarities that I found to be really amazing. The demos?

Yeah. I love that. Oh, my God. Beautiful. His evolution. He's always remained true to himself, but those demos and those rare cuts, as a songwriter. Yeah, the songs themselves. Right.

Permanently lonely. Yeah, the darkness in some of them hello walls oh my god yeah i still cry when i see him and neil play i've seen the place so many times and i still get like i cry every time but that's interesting that you say those two guys because more than almost any other artist that even though they, Willie of several and in, in actually Neil too, over several periods of sound,

you know, their, their songbooks for the most part are timeless. So good. Like you can't, you can't tie them to a time. No. Like,

and that was a, that's a tough thing to do in the sixties that all those Neil Young records. Oh yeah. In the sixties and seventies there, they're not hinged hinged to gimmick or production to the point where you're like, it doesn't matter when this was made. Yeah. It's transcendent. It's so good. So let's talk about, I'd like to, you know, I mean, I listened to your latest record.

It's great. And I listened to the one you did before that the fall I mean I know you you write some songs and the more songs are written on some records and that you know producers make a difference but I'm curious about if we could talk about it you know what you how you caught up with your dad and how you appreciate you know his contribution to to music or how it had any impact on you i'm i think i'm sure you've been asked that before yeah but i never have enough time to actually explain it properly okay you know what i mean um i didn't grow up listening to his music a lot because he wasn't around i think you know whenever i was 18 and we sort of

got reunited i ended up going on tour with him for a few weeks to just hang out with him and my half sister who i met for the first time when i was 18 how old is she she's two years younger than me wow we're super close now and it's awesome it's like we both grew up only children kind of yeah and always wanted a sister yeah we have it and now we've known each other almost as long as we didn't know each other, so it's nice. And she's a musician. And she's an amazing musician,

and we have a very weirdly similar life, because we're musicians and we tour and we have kids. What type of music does she play? She plays the sitar she learned from my dad. She learned from my dad. Traditional Indian music in a way. And she learned from my dad. Right.

So very different upbring in musically oh interesting yeah very interesting and very you know different yeah and so so when I was touring around with him when I was 18 I was just kind of sitting in the audience and watching them play on stage together yeah and it was really my introduction to that music and I mean seeing him live was the most amazing thing. It's interesting because it doesn't, like in the Western brain, even in the jazz brain, the way one postures with that instrument and the way that the other musicians situate themselves is completely unique.

It's totally different. You're already in a different time zone. Yeah. And I don't, you know, over the years I've learned a little bit. He taught me a few things. I know he always wanted to teach me stuff, but he didn't want to, you know. It was a polite thing a little bit. And then finally we got in the room one day and he taught me some stuff.

It was fun. It was awesome. But, you know, it's not my, it's not what I do. It's not what I'm going to do. Sure. That kind of music, I really love listening to it. And I really enjoyed learning a little bit more about the technical aspects of what they're doing. Tonally?

Well, it's like these ragas, it's like a different thing. Yeah. It's like a song, but it's not at all like a song. Right. It's a whole different way of a form and all that. Yeah, and they're long. They're very long. Yeah. But yeah but you know it's beautiful music it's just i don't need to understand it to to love it you know and and how did the relationship like you know what gave way in your heart to to to build that that

relationship with him did it influence did it was it part of your evolution as a singer too like i mean because i know we talked about just in the sense that when you talk about evolving and and connecting your voice to your heart and having that you know and that that thing grows you know with you yeah all your experiences yeah yeah yeah like did was there a was there a tangible moment where you realized that, like, you know, I accept, you know, this relationship and my father and whatever happened is what it is? Yeah, there were a few moments like that. And, you know, it got a little complicated with my success at the time. With him?

Well, just with everybody. Yeah. It just got weird for a minute. With him? Well, just with everybody. It just got weird for a minute. But I think we all worked through it. And it was, you know, we knew our relationship.

And to me, that's what mattered. Yeah. You know, not setting the record straight anywhere. It's too complicated. Yeah. It's nobody's business either. You know, it's like. Sure. I don't want people in my family shit, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what was weird about it. Right. So anyway, yeah, over the like, I don't want people in my family shit, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's what was weird about it. Right. So anyway, yeah, over the years we really, we got to be a really nice little family. Yeah. And it was great. And, you know, for me, having that relationship with my sister was pretty awesome and kept me coming back even more. And my dad was really funny and fun person to be around yeah but i i also felt like i

got to know him a little bit through my sister and my stepmom to put some stuff together totally yeah yeah like it's a whole side of your your genetics yeah that has a completely different history yeah yeah it's fascinating i know to get that all at once, I can't even imagine it. You know, to all of a sudden decide to welcome yourself in and allow it to happen and then be given all that. And then to go to India with him and realize that he's like a king, you know, pretty much. You went to India with him? Yeah, I went to India with him a few times. I mean, just that whole side of my history you know india is this

talk about texas being a country i mean india is i've always wanted to go i've always been nervous it's yeah it's an intense place to visit to be honest but it's amazing and it's beautiful and the fact that i'm half indian it's like but i grew up totally separate from all that. Texan. I'm a Texan. It was weird to go to India. Yeah. I mean, I related to it and it was beautiful, but it was just so weird to like think, oh, I'm half this, but I don't really know it that well. So show me around, you know. Right. I'm still, you know, learning.

Yeah. Far from knowing it all. Oh, yeah. I would imagine, you know, there's so many different levels just to the culture and to whatever religions were involved. But do you ever talk to your sister about recording? Well, I've recorded with her a few times on her records. Yeah. And we had a lot of fun on this one record, actually writing a couple songs together.

And it was right after my dad died. And so I think for us, it was nice to kind of connect in that way. Which record is that? It's a couple, she makes so many records. She just put out an awesome record last year called Land of Gold. It was,

I'm not sure if it was the one before that or the one before that, actually. What's her name? Anushka Shankar. And you sing on like three of her records? I think I've done two records with her. Have you ever had her play on yours?

No. Not yet? Not yet. I mean, I love her. She's incredible. You should see her live sometime. I will. The sitar is a very specific sound.

It is. Yeah. Yeah, and there's no hiding it. There's no hiding it. And she's done a really great job of just like, she's gone into a lot of different genres and different things, and she's really found her voice. She's amazing.

Does she have kids and stuff? Yeah, she's got two little kids. Yeah, it's been fun kind of going through all that together. Well, that's exciting. Yeah. And then the last record is great. I enjoyed it. And you're going to tour?

Is this what's happening now? Yeah. In March? Mm-hmm. And you're just going all over the states? Yeah, states and Europe and Japan. How are the crowds? Great.

Yeah? Yeah, it's been interesting. Like, over the years, my performing, you know, relating to the crowds, I wasn't always great at it. Do you talk to them? Hit and miss. I hate, you know, I hated talking. Then I talked too much and then I talk less now

because I hate when I talk too much on stage. I find it kind of annoying. But yeah, it's great. The crowds have been amazing. And do you play like sort of the whole catalog, bits and pieces? Yeah, definitely. And it's pretty cool.

I mean, all these kids were kids in their 20s or 30s. Yeah. And they come up and they're like, oh, I used to listen to you when I was a kid. I'm like, holy shit. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about? But it makes sense because my first record came out almost 15 years ago. And the last record was really what? Your sixth record?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I got some country bands and put out a bunch of stuff with. What are they called? The Little Willies. Okay. And Puss in Boots.

Do you ever tour with them? Yeah. When you play these bigger shows and you're out on tour, what covers do you lean on? What are your favorite covers do you repeat? It just depends on the tour. What's the staples? Lately, we've been doing Must Have Been the Roses, the Dead tune. Yeah.

That one always gets a lot of love. People miss Jerry. They do. And they love him. And it's a great song. It is a great song. Yeah. And we've been doing that after Leonard Cohen died and the political stuff was hitting the fan.

Well, it's still hitting the fan. Well, it's still hitting the fan. Oh, it's going to be hitting for a while. I know. But when it was right before the – oh, it was right after the election. Yeah. Yeah, and he died that week, and it was just so crazy. And we were doing Everybody Knows, that Leonard Cohen tune. Oh, I've been listening to that.

God, it really hits home right now. It's kind of crazy. The lyrics. It's funny how lyrics can be timeless. Well, he's real good at that. And it's taken me a long time to really appreciate it. You know, just how that stripped down the poetry is, but how succinct it is. Well, and all those old political songs from the 60s and everything.

Or even before like stuff translates today because the same crap happens. It's always the same. It's always going to be relevant in a weird way. Absolutely. It's human. Yeah. Those are always going to be relevant in a weird way. Absolutely. It's human. Yeah. Those are the human emotions and struggles. Yeah.

And it's a shame, but it's also beautiful that we have that music. Absolutely. All right. Well, did you have fun? Do you feel good? I do. Thank you for talking to me. Thanks for having me.

It was fun. Well, that was pleasant! Okay! Breathe. Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhillllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll Okay. Guitar. Okay, hold on. Thank you. ¶¶ Boomer lives! You can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region.

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