WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 797 - Paul Shaffer

Episode Date: March 26, 2017

Paul Shaffer takes Marc down the path that turned a piano-playing kid from Canada into a keyboard-for-hire who became the bandleader for the famous Toronto production of Godspell. And from there, the dominoes fell, as Paul joined the SNL band, the Blues Brothers band, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame house band, and the band for David Letterman's show, which turned into a relationship that lasted for 33 years. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Lock the gate! Alright, let's do this. How are you what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fuckadelics? What the fuck nicks? What's happening?

I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome. Thanks for hanging out. I know a lot of you have been hanging out for a lot of years. Some of you are new because I can tell by the numbers. Glad that people are finding some relief or whatever. Someone just told me that my podcast has become essential

for them to follow sweep i don't know i don't always know how to take that i there's there's a couple ways to take that either uh it just puts me right to sleep right as soon as you start talking whoo my eyes glaze over or there's something comforting about the persistent uh aggravated uh intensity that happens out of my face into your head that you find comforting and if that's the case i'm sorry i it can't be easy for you the rest of the day i am recording this a few days early for a couple of reasons. One being sometimes I don't like to take all the equipment on the road. What is that? Who's calling me? What's happening?

I'm literally calling myself on FaceTime. Like, I don't know, I was on my own contact information on my iPhone. I must have hit a button, and now I'm getting a FaceTime call from me, and I'm looking at myself talking right now on my phone, and I don't think I should answer it. I don't want to leave a message for me. That was weird. Why did that happen?

I can't trust anything anymore when it comes to technology. But that is the case. The reason that i'm doing this a few days early is twofold so i'm not i'm not going to be up to speed uh on you know anything that's really happened over the weekend uh because uh maybe that's what the phone call is maybe i'm calling myself to tell me what's going to happen. Maybe that's me calling from the future just to give me a heads up. I knew that I was recording, and maybe it's a message going like, I don't even bother. A lot of shit goes down over the weekend.

It's going to sound weird on Monday when you know and address it. And here's the rundown. Anyways, all right, I'll get to it in a second. I want to let you know, you can mark this down on your calendars. If you're in or around New York City on June 3rd, I will be at this year's BookCon along with my producer, Brendan McDonald, where we will have the first public unveiling of our new book, Waiting for the Punch, Words to Live By from the WTF podcast. Go to thebookcon.com for tickets you

can get a day pass for saturday june 3rd if you want to see us jeffrey tambor also has a panel on saturday so you'll get some bang for your buck it should be fun very excited about the book uh yeah oh also today on the show paul schaefer pa Paul Schaefer has been sort of making the rounds a bit because he's got an album out called Paul Schaefer and the World's Most Dangerous Band. But I'll tell you, man, if you're my age, even if you're not, but probably more so if you are 53, that is, in and around that area,

the figure or the person that is Paul Schaefer on television is somebody you've watched for decades. And he's always been this sort of secondary character. Obviously, the music's important, but him as a personality has somewhat evolved, but maybe just gotten older. But if you were a kid like me in my first or probably my second year of college, I don't know when that show started, but I remember watching it religiously every night on this clunky, small color television set, 13 inch or whatever, on my bed. I would move it onto my bed so I could watch Letterman at night.

That's the kind of social life i had and i was a religious uh viewer of letterman there at the beginning because it was so fucking great i just the the place that guy has in my mind in my life and my heart is is powerful you know david letterman but uh but watching paul schaefer at the beginning and evolve into this strange side man sidekick you know with him with his on even earlier back on snl when i was a wow i just yeah i mean when i was in high school junior high 77 just seeing him around in those bits with those big glasses the big ellen john glasses and then seeing him on letterman and developing this rapport with david that was sort of weird and stony and just a little off i don't know if it was i don't know if it was a weed related i just think it's paul and then just you know seeing him every the blues brothers movie and

then just seeing paul schaefer around he's been this guy in the corner of the screen for decades and he you know he becomes more of a person as time goes on and you watch him get older and you watch him that when later the the the last david letterman show over those years but he's just been with me seemingly since i was 13 so that's like 40 years paul has been in the corner of the screen i was happy to have him here because he's an amazing musician he's been involved in a lot of stuff and he's known a lot of people and uh so it was exciting for me to talk to paul i i remember that i was going to tell you why yeah why why i'm doing this today i i'm not i didn't forget that by the way austin texas next week paramount theater march 31st

austin texas and i'll be in boulder on april 7th uh at the in Boulder on April 7th at the Boulder Theater in Denver at the Paramount Theater on April 8th. So the reason I'm recording this today, and this has happened before. Maybe it's happened to some of you. It's not a good thing. It's really probably outside of illness or heart attack or maybe looking at the news and finding out the entire world's on fire is sort of a bad moment. You know when you don't realize anymore, maybe you've done it once before, but you just start getting sloppy and you start setting that mug of coffee a little too close to the laptop on the table. And you don't anticipate ever knocking it over for whatever fucking reason. But it happens. And there's that moment where you feel it happening.

You just hear the clink of that glass tipping over. And you look down and you just see liquid all on the top of your laptop, right on the keyboard, soaking into those little circuits and that moment is like ah shit what the fucking fuck and then you scramble you wipe it off maybe get a hair dryer so yeah that happened the other day so i don't know how how it's going to hold hold up. You can't put your whole computer in a bag of rice if that even works. But I freaked out. I wiped it up. I didn't have a hair dryer.

Don't have a hair dryer. Put it outside. Baked it a little bit. Turned it over to get some of the liquid out. I did this all very quickly. The thing seems to be working, but I don't trust it enough to necessarily take it on the road and do the business i need to do you know like mail the files for the podcast from the road so this is what's going on i am getting i had ordered a new computer because this one's about stupid

you know it just starts getting slow and tired and a little uh little senile and it's got too much on its mind uh there's a lot of uh you know, aggravating, you know, porn links sometimes that, you know, they can't shake and all the baggage that comes with that and God knows what else. It's just, you know, the brain can only take so much when it's mechanical. And, you know, even an organic brain has its limits. But that happened. That happened yesterday, yesterday of course the day before i'm uh i'm heading out to the to do some gigs so i have a volatile fucked up little

wet brain laptop that i can't depend on so i'm getting this done now so that that that's what happened i'm sharing that with you got a i got a email. It's not even that weird, but I found it entertaining somehow, so I'll address it. Subject line, am I a big jerk? Hello, Mark, you seem to be the man of introspection, so I hope you appreciate this email and do not just want to beat my ass. I discovered your show about three weeks ago, and I've since watched throwback bits from a handful of comedians. My question is, am I a big jerk? I watched young Louis C.K., young Mark Maron, and young Joe Rogan and was astonished at how much I liked the 2017 versions.

I've loved everything I've seen of yours on Netflix, belong to the Louis C.K.'s mailing list, and actively look for Joe Rogan's tour dates, but watching videos of young versions of you guys made me want to fight you guys. This is a super weird email to send to anyone else in the world but uh wtf seems to thrive on introspection and irrational anger so what are your thoughts i love you old mark m sincerely a 30 year old who must be 50 at heart i don't know if the anger is always irrational, but I appreciate your email. And look, no one wanted to kick young Mark Maron's ass more than young Mark Maron.

And I don't think you're alone in wanting to kick young Mark Maron's ass or Louie's. I don't know why you would necessarily want to kick Louie's young ass, but maybe you have a problem. But Joe Rogan, I can tell you fairly confidently uh i i don't think you'd you'd want to try to kick young joe rogan's ass you know when he was a young comic fresh out of the kickboxing game i don't know maybe you know maybe you gotta maybe you have to look inward my friend brad maybe you have to look inward but uh and and also i i might uh say that uh I was on top of that. Young Mark Maron was busy kicking his own ass almost 24 hours a day. Paul Schaefer.

Like I said before, he's got a new record out, Paul Schaefer and the World's Most Dangerous Band, which is the band Paul led on the Late Show with David Letterman. There are guest vocals by Dion, Jenny Lewis, Bill Murray, and more. They're kicking off a national tour on April 1st in New York, and they'll be playing through the summer. I was very happy to have the odd but candid and amazingly talented Paul Schaefer here in the garage, and this is me and Paul chatting. Death is in our air this year's most anticipated series fx's shogun only on disney plus we live and we die we control nothing beyond that an epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by james clavelle to show your true heart just to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive.

FX's Shogun, a new original series, streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Calgary is an opportunity-rich city, home to innovators, dreamers, disruptors, and problem solvers. The city's visionaries are turning heads around the globe across all sectors each and every day. They embody Calgary's DNA. Thank you. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look at CalgaryEconomicDevelopment.com. When was the last time I saw you, Paul? Well, I think that in the roast.

Exactly. That horrible. The auspicious Chevy Chase roast. You know about that the i was there you saw me bomb i was a roast but you nothing mattered you didn't bomb you didn't nothing mattered not when when chevy got on and he had been taking notes he had been taking notes all through yeah you thought boy when he comes on, he's going to kill. He's going to really lay it out. He's going to give it back to everybody. And he really had nothing.

And I just said, wow, that was rough. Did he say that to you? Wow, yeah. No, he said to the audience. I feel like he was not a great sport about it the whole time. Yeah, he didn't really want to be doing it. He did it for his wife's charity. He kept saying, doing it yeah he did his wife's charity he kept saying i'm doing it for my wife's charity yeah yeah and he took some hits but he didn't take them well

but that's a little misguided well it wasn't he wasn't at the top of his career at that time you know so he wasn't really the right guy to roast you're very diplomatic are you guys old friends like this he in your phone well yes yes yes he's in my phone that's a good way of putting it he is and even after that night you know right i was a little rough on him too but uh he was good but that was you don't always do those roasts i mean that was sort of a rare thing i have a hard time believing that's the last time i saw you because uh but i guess it probably is man you know no that's not true i think on my last letterman appearance that was long after i talked about uh meeting mel brooks and talking to him oh i do remember that yeah yeah that was the last time

now is dave in your phone yes yes but it was a secret name you know i don't want to you give you lose your phone yeah and everybody calling him well now he seems like he's chatty he's chatty these days dave well he certainly i mean he doesn't have the opportunity to do it every single night. Right. No one's forcing him to do every single night. Looks like he's having a great time to me. He is. And he adjusted to, you know, the change in schedule, if you would.

Sure. It must be such a fucking relief, man. I don't know why people work so hard after a certain point. You got enough money. What are you doing? I don't know. You just think you've got to do it. You've got to complete it.

Really? And as Dave himself has said, you get the feeling when you're doing it like it's the most important thing in the world. Right. And now he realizes, you know what? It wasn't so important. It's just show business.

But it's funny, though. It's a different thing with music because music does ultimately can have a life for a long time. You know, I mean, obviously some Letterman clips, you know, you go back and watch shows, but music stays there, right? It's Raining Men will be there forever, Paul.

Thank you, thank you. My accountant certainly hopes you're right about that. You did all right on that song. I never thought it would have the legs, if you will. I didn't even know you did it until today. Yes, I know, yes. I wrote the music for it. My co-writer was the late, great Paul Jabbaro, who wrote Last Dance for Donna Summer and stuff.

Last Dance. That was a good era for that kind of music. And he won an Oscar. For that? For that, yes. And then he called me up, because I had done some arranging for him. Yeah. Early disco experimental.

Right. He had a song called One Man Ain't Enough. Yeah. And we made that record with him singing it. disco experimental right he had he had a song called one man ain't enough yeah and we you know we made that record with him singing it he was already working towards this groovy concept you can see one man ain't enough yeah and then it's raining man yeah uh anyway he had all the lyrics ready to go you know and i was happy to be able to put music to him and uh made a little money i became a co-writer a little scratch a A little scratch, yeah. But the thing about you is you're one of those people in my life who I remember forever.

You have a place in my mind. I've watched you grow up on television. I know. I was young when I started. I remember different versions of hair. Different comb-overs, yes. Several different approaches to the comb-over. And I was combing over and making fun of guys who combed over.

Yeah, at the same time. And yet doing it at the same time. It was an ironic comb-over, but it was real. Yeah, but not looking at myself full-on in the mirror. I would only look through squinted eyes. I didn't really want to see what I looked like. What most people do with comb-over. I imagine our president does that every day.

Looks right. Looks perfect. Yeah. It's beautiful. It's a little Vaseline on the lens. You can get away with anything. But because I talked to, yeah, I talked to Eugene Levy. Yes.

I've talked to the Reitmans, Ivan and the son. I've talked to the Canadians that come out of the world you come out of. And I mean, you were born there, right? You were like a Canadian. Certainly, yes. Born in Toronto, raised in Thunder Bay, Ontario, on the north shore of Lake Superior. Do you miss Canada ever? Well, I love Canada, of course.

It is my country of origin. I'm very proud to be Canadian, but I'm an American now. Yeah. And I'm very proud to be here, too. But are you a citizen of both places? Yes, yes, I am. Do you ever think like, I gotta, maybe I'm heading back? Uh,

no one's gone back yet. I was gonna go up there and get into real estate. I thought that would be the way to go. And sell to all, yes, sell to all the terrified Americans that are running up there. But you don't know anyone who's gone back? I don't see anybody going up there yet. Not yet.

Let's see. Do you have any plans? You could do this from Vancouver. It's very nice there. I could do it from everywhere. In fact, driving out here, I thought I was going to Vancouver. It's a long... Except that you don't have that weird similarity of buildings.

When I work Vancouver, I say this city looks like it was built from a kit all at once. It's sort of new, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Well, the modernity in Canada. I'm speaking French. Yes, it's very good. It's similar.

There's a lot of glass. The building's all, you know, it's like one kind of angle. You know, there's the old stuff, and then there's these things. They don't reverse the angle. No, no, no. They don't get any reverse shots. But did you grow up in a city? The town I grew up in, Thunder Bay, when I was there, it was about 140,000.

It doesn't sound tiny, but it was isolated. Right. It had its own thing. It wasn't near anything. Four hours, and you'd get to Duluth, Minnesota. And that was basically just the same as Thunder Bay yeah you don't want to travel shipping towns well I mean not much there well but you didn't stay in Toronto how far is it from Toronto I was born there I was only there to it's

a thousand miles north west of Toronto so I was in Toronto to get born and then then way up there yeah and then I went up there yes my dad was from my dad brought my mother up there. Yeah, and my dad was a lawyer up there He was from there from there. How did like what how did Jews make it hard to say? I I've asked and nobody remembers they came my father's family came from Austria and they came through Ellis Island You know immigrated in the way and somehow I guess they must have heard there was Opportunity north. Yeah, and they went they lived in West Orange I think New Jersey for a while, then up to Canada, then back and then up again.

I don't know why, but. What bracket was your grandfather in? He, at the time, my dad's father had a Western Iron and Metals, you know, scrap metal company. Oh, okay. Shipping, putting it, loading it on these steamers. So he went out and got scrap metal from buildings and sites? Finding it, yeah, demolishing cars. Like a little higher level junk man.

Exactly, that's what he was. And he had a compressor thing, you know, you put a coal car in there and it comes out a little square. It comes out. No, I never did any of that. I used to go visit, though. But you'd go to the site and you'd watch him squish cars? Yes, I remember what it was like, big piles of scrap. The car squ squisher he had a car squisher i had a squisher yeah it came with a squisher yeah so it was northern scrap metal western iron and metal it was called that was

the family business uh-huh and your dad didn't want to go into that he no he went he went to toronto uh university of toronto and became a lawyer and went back up there and he did all kinds of law wills accident cases divorces everything yes everything and your mom did what homemaker one of the hardest job in the world where's that where does he and how many siblings no not only child really yeah don't you have like 12 kids I have two kids oh really I don't know why I thought you were one of those guys yeah no two and you know one was enough I this is it. How many more can you have? My wife had three brothers, so she wanted at least one more. You keep the one company.

I didn't get it. I didn't get it. As an only child, I thought, great. Yeah, we got it. You got all the, were you an only child as well? I was not. And I'm always fascinated with only children. I've tried to insinuate on every only child I've talked to that there must have been a lot of pressure not to die.

Well, you certainly get all the attention. Yeah, I think that's the positive way to look at it. And you have privacy. I loved my life. But now that I have two, I see what my wife was talking about. Yeah, it's better. The older one needs to have someone to beat up on.

If no one's getting beat up, no one learns anything. Yeah, but the younger one doesn't necessarily love it't be true sorry i just improvised that and i realize it's a horrible way to look at life yes well it is but uh but you know so you were just all alone there in the house listening to the radio picking up american radio channels after dark uh-huh we could hear the big wls 50 000 watts watts AM radio from Chicagoland. Oh, yeah? And every night they played the top three most requested songs in Chicagoland. Yeah. And I was listening every night, you know, pretending to be a Chicagoan.

Right. And so what kind of station was that? R&B or was it pop music? Pop, you know. Go on. We talking the 50s? Yeah, well, we're talking the 60s. Okay.

Early 60s? Mid 60s. I mean, top three most impressive songs. Wonderful Summer by Robin Ward was up there for a while. Only in America, Jay and the Americans. So this must have been 1963. Right. These were the tunes that I remember.

So pop music. And all the local Chicago bands that we would hear, like the Crying Shames. Right. The Buckinghams. Yeah. You know, kind of a drag on. Yeah.

I heard all that after Dark. It was like a lifeline. Right. The Buckinghams. Yeah. You know, kind of a drag on. I heard all that after Dark. It was like a lifeline. Right. To the US. So it was like pop music before everything got weird. Beatles era. A little bit before. Yeah.

And you were playing nothing yet. I was taking piano lessons as a child. You were. Classical piano lessons. I started at six years old. How are you with that stuff? Can you lay it out? I can't anymore. How are your sight reading skills? No good. No good? But I had a great ear

for music, and I was teaching myself how to play pop music by ear. You can ear out chords on the piano? Yes, yes. No kidding. Yeah, and when I started, the music was very simple. You know, Wonderful Summer, there are only three chords in there. That's all you need. You learn the three, you can play everything. I see you're a guitarist. You're a guitarist. Yeah, I'm a three-chord guitarist. I see. I'm very good at three chords.

Well, I kind of learned along with rock and roll. The fourth chord came in, you know, a little more R&B. Yeah, that sixth minor chord, yeah. Then you could play all the R&B songs. Right. 100 Pounds of Clay was a big one for me by Gene McDaniel. Sure, sure. C, A minor, F, G, you know.

Yeah, perfect. And then a fifth chord, you know, you had to learn the three and you had to learn the two. Then you get into Beatles territory, the fifth chord. That's right. Well, yes. And so I gradually developed my ear as the music developed. And I cheated on my lesson. You know, I would watch and listen to the teacher play the piece and then just regurgitate it and play it by rote,

as they used to say. Without reading it. Yeah, just memorizing it and hearing it and watching it and playing it by rote. But you never really connected with the classical stuff. I loved it, but once I heard the Four Seasons, forget it. Sherry!

That sound. Sherry, baby, big girls don't cry, walk like a man, ragdoll. They were your guys, huh? They were, yeah, yeah. And when the Beatles came out, you know, initially I didn't even care. I was still reeling from having seen the four seasons on Ed Sullivan. Yeah.

Doing Big Girls Don't Cry. There was something about that sound, the way they looked. I'd never seen guys. We didn't have guys that looked like that. Or sounded like that. Or sounded like that. He was high, man. He was high. It was like they said, walk like a man, sing like or sounded like he was high man he was high

it was like they said walk like a man sing like a girl he could get up there yeah but the whole vocal sound they had was just amazing and you you heard that sound of the city the street you know yeah you think i said get me down there i felt it anyway you felt the sound of the street in the four seasons in the four seasons you might be the only guy well maybe so i don't think so though they were from jersey and you know metal was clinking it just sounded like new york well on this new record that were the world's most dangerous band you got dion out of uh how about that yeah well he like he gets so much respect you know from like interesting people like yourself obviously you have them on the tune and lou reed loved him yes yeah springsteen loves him i mean there are

people that like i didn't really, like, I recently got some of the later Dion stuff and I didn't realize until not too long ago sort of his struggle. I mean, I mean,

Run Around Sue, that stuff was great. Yeah. But then after that, like, when he went through the horrible drug addiction and everything. Yes, yeah,

but he survived, came out the other end. But he puts out records all the time. I didn't realize his small label records, blues records. He loves the blues and does blues records, yeah. Well all the time and I didn't realize his small label records, blues records. He loves the blues

and does blues records, yeah. Well, you know, I don't think he'd mind my saying he's 75 years old. Yeah. But the way he sings on my record is like a bird.

His vocal on this Sam Cooke obscure, he does this obscure Sam Cooke song that I had never heard before. He chose it? You know who chose it? Seymour Stein.

The great record. Seymour Sire records. Yeah. The guy who signed it. Were the Ramones on Sire? Yes. The Ramones for Talking Heads? Seymour Stein, the great record. Seymour Sire Records. Yes. The guy who signed it. Were the Ramones on Sire? Yes, the Ramones for Talking Heads. Seymour and I became friends over all the years of doing the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction dinners together. And he called me up after Letterman and said, you know, you want to get back in the record business and signed me up.

And it's on Sire. I'm on Sire. That's great. I'm like Madonna. And Rhino is the parent company now? Rhino really made it. But I don't know. They're calling on Sire. I'm on Sire. That's great. I'm like Madonna. And Rhino is the parent company now? Rhino really made it, but I don't know. They're calling it Sire. Sure, Sire.

For all time's sake. Yeah, and you were able to do that, watch that thing on Funny or Die where you revive the character from Spinal Tap. Yes, yes. I had fun on it. What's that guy's name? Artie Fufkin. Artie Fufkin.

And he kept singing, Artie Fufkin, Sire Records, how are you? Artie Fufkin, Sire Records. Came right back to you, didn Sire Records came right back to you didn't it came right back to you it was hilarious actually the first take I forgot

yeah that there was a voice and then by the end of it I was sort of doing the voice and then I remember let me

oh I remember now and I got into it kick me in the ass by the second time I was kicking myself in the ass fun to do and then

whose song is that like I get I was listening to the Jenny Lewis song. Is that David Bowie's song? It was one of the songs that he covered on that record called Pinups. Right. Whose original song is it? The Kinks?

Whose is it? Well, the McCoys originally. Sorrow? Yeah, follow up to Hang On Sloopy. But it was covered in England by the Merseys, also known as the Mersey Beats, I think. Yeah. And that's where Bowie heard it. What a great fucking song.

Yes. And Jenny, doesn't Jenny sound beautiful on it? Really good. Beautiful. You got Bill Murray really singing? He sounds really good, doesn't he?

It sounds like he was in it. He wasn't mocking it. Spent the whole afternoon working on it and doing as many takes as we wanted, you know. He really wanted to get it right it was kind of touching for me yeah we're old old friends since before Saturday Night Live

oh really yeah from back in the Canadian well you know his his older brother was Brian Doyle Murray yeah he's not alive anymore no he is I said I don't know I said was okay uh but he at that because I'm thinking back and in those early 70s, he and Joe Flaherty came up to Toronto to teach, to cast and form SCTV? Second City Nightclub. This was before SCTV.

Let's walk through it. Let's walk through the Canada stuff. So you're a kid who's listening to music and able to play it and outsmarting your piano teacher, but when do you start working as a musician? Went to Toronto to go to school, University of Toronto. Graduated, degree in sociology.

Yeah. How did that serve you? Well, you know, there is something about it. A band leader has got to work with people. He's right in between management on one side and employees on the other. He's got to play music with the people and also be the leader.

It's this tough little sociological experiment right there. You've got to be diplomatic. It has. Yeah, so it has really. Because there's you and then there's Buddy Rich. Exactly.

And you want to find a nice medium. Somewhere, yeah. You don't want one of those tapes where you're yelling at your... You guys are blowing clams out there! Although I'm sure one of those exists about me. Every band leader loses it. Have you lost it?

At some point. Who are you going to yell at? Will? I lost it one time. One time. When Darlene Love, the great rock and roll singer who used to come on Letterman every day, every Christmas and do her original Christmas song

from the Phil Spector Christmas album. Well, she sang it so beautifully one day and then one time on the show and then sang Silent Night during the commercial gospel style. Yeah.

The snow was falling. People were crying and we came out and the show ended. Good night, everybody. And I start yelling at Darlene. Yeah, well,

it had been not Darlene, a stage manager who didn't deserve it. But it had been a long day. A lot of things going wrong, you know. Yeah. And something happened and I just started right in front of the audience. Really? Yeah. Screaming at them. Swearing

at them. Yes. And then, you know, somebody wrote it to page six. Well, I thought I liked Paul Schaefer until I saw this show. He ruined Christmas. I ruined Christmas for that whole audience. But I apologized and, you know, I said I'm- Oh, I just heard the Canadian.

I'm an asshole. Apologized. I heard it. Eh? Eh? I heard it. Eh? I heard it's in there.

Anyway- What did Dave say? Did he talk you down? Yeah, he said you have every right to do that. Very supportive of me. God love him, you know. I don't know. Everyone's entitled.

Well, thank you. you so all right so your university of toronto you're doing your sociology when i graduated i started playing uh music in town you know see what happens to take take a year i made a deal with my parents sure take a year for try show business see what happens maybe i'll go to grad if it doesn't work out i'll go to grad so you're in toronto yeah and what are you where are you playing you're out doing uh what they used to call casuals uh bar mitzvahs weddings by yourself or with a pickup bands you know looking there was but you were leading them you were like no no i would get a bell you know we need a keyboard player saturday you know i was in a band once that went on and played at missile bases in northern quebec in middle of winter, freezing like 30, 40 below.

Just doing covers? Doing whatever they had to do, yes, of course. Whatever we had to do. Well, whatever was out, yes, it was covers, yeah. Tom Jones, daughter of darkness, stay out of my life, my love. Were you singing? I used to sing a little bit, yeah. Games people, war game people playing. You know, I can summon it up? I used to sing a little bit, yeah. Games people, all the game people play.

You know, I can summon it up when I have to. I've seen you sing a couple times. Yeah, I sing. I open my mouth. I sing a little bit on the record, actually. Yeah, one or two tunes, right? Yeah, two tunes. They made me sound pretty good.

And you're playing with the old guys. I mean, like, geez, some of those guys you've been playing with for what, 40 years? Well, Will Lee on bass, yes, was on the very first show of Letterman in 82. Before that, we were doing sessions together. I met him in the recording studio. I remember. Oh, really? We used to do Barry Manilow records together.

He played on all those early hits. I played on some of them. And he's like a very, like bass guys are interesting because they're so important, but they're unassuming a lot of times. They're just kind of, that's Will. just there i remember the guitar i remember you know i remember i remember um hyrum yes yes from the late great hyrum but he died you know oh uh my first guitarist nobody could i mean he was up there with hendrix hyrum he was yeah he's great i used to love watching him i remember one night don rickles came out and the first thing he said

is hyrum how are you, Hiram? You're black. I'm white. That's the breaks. Oh, I remember. You remember? Yeah. You can't get away with that stuff anymore.

No, you can't. But he paid me such a great compliment that same show. And Don Rickles turned to me. Oh, you remember that night? Oh, are you kidding? Of course. He turned to me and he said, Paul, have yourself committed. And I was in heaven.

You know, Don Rickles has done a line on me. I can retire. All right, let's go back to Canada. So you're doing missile bases. Yes, and... Singing Tom Jones songs. Sometimes I used to accompany people for auditions. 20 bucks, you could come over to my house

and we'd learn a song together and then I'd go and play for you at your audition. And one girl was going to audition for an off-broadway New York show 70 show called Godspell it was a rock in Toronto yeah this is our own company the production in Toronto it was like that when hair hit town yeah everybody auditioned right same with Godspell everybody auditioned I went played for this girlfriend of mine and the Steve Schwartz was the composer very

famous now yeah Broadway composer and he said to girlfriend of mine, and Steve Schwartz was the composer, very famous now Broadway composer, and he said to me, can you stay and play the rest of the auditions because the piano player doesn't seem to know the songs that the people want to hear, and I knew all the songs, you know. So yes, I played for the rest of the auditions, and then he hired me to conduct the show after that.

Really? And then he hired all the funniest people that I thought, you know. Who was that friend you brought to the audition? Her name was Avril Chown, a wonderful singer. Didn't make it. And another girl who I was dating at the time, Virginia, Ron Sette. Neither of them made it.

Right. You know, but I did. Oh, no, Avril did get it. Avril got it. Yeah. Did get the job. Are you kidding? Because she sang one of the songs from the show.

Right. And that's when Schwartz got to hear me play one of his songs. Right. And I got the job. Are you kidding? Because she sang one of the songs from the show. Right. And that's when Schwartz got to hear me play one of his songs. Right. And I got this job. I never conducted or anything before. But, you know, so here's this company, which besides Avril, who was a terrific singer, you had Martin Short, Eugene Levy, Dave Thomas, Andrea Martin.

For my money, the funniest of them all. Taught them all how to be funny. Gilda Radner. Yeah. Victor Garber. Victor Garber. A straight actor, yes, who we know from Titanic. Sure.

The guy who designed the ship. Exactly. All these people in the same company. And I was saying, yeah, but this is great. But when I get to New York, man, that's when I'm going to see some talented people. Turned out I was wrong. These people are- Amazing.

The funniest. Yeah. Still the funniest. And Martin Short, you guys still friends? We are still best of friends. Turned out I was wrong. These people are the funniest. Yeah, still the funniest. And Martin Short, you guys still friends? We are still best of friends. In fact, all of us. We see each other all the time. It seems like you Canadians are good at that.

We are. Some of us are loyal. Marty sure is a very loyal friend. I got to get him in here. He's like, you know, after talking to Eugene, it was great. You know, I just realized, like, why have I not talked to him? Yeah. But, all right, so, but, like so but like are you like before you do this you're you're actually getting the experience but was there ever this sort of idea that uh you know when you were doing these pickup gigs and that you were going

to be did you play jazz did you did you did you have any uh other ideas for yourself i thought i would i would be in a rock band you know yeah i can't you know my my singing was even worse than it is now yeah so i thought you know what i gotta be in a band somebody else will sing and maybe you know and that's all i thought for myself and i but but i was playing lounges and stuff you know and you could you could riff you get like i know you can now yes and then i started to you know what happened when i was in first year i'd given up my high school rock band first year of college trying to settle down become an academic got depressed as hell yeah had to sleep all day long yeah started playing a little avant-garde jazz yeah in second year i apprenticed with a guy who with whom i still play his name is munoz to cg

munoz yeah a cosmically oriented avant-garde guitar. Like Sun Rock kind of? Yes, exactly. And Coltrane. Yeah. Taught me everything I know about that style of music. Enabled me to play with people like Miles Davis and Dizzy Gillespie later when they would come on Letterman. Still play with this guy.

And I cheered up when I started playing with him and I said, well, I got to do music. It's obvious. So that's interesting. So you were in a rock band in high school doing, you know, playing what? Covers, Rascals. What were you playing, a Rhodes?

I was playing a Horner. I started with a Horner electronic organ, about three and a half octaves, you know, on legs. Yeah. Sort of like the organ you'd see all the English bands using, but couldn't afford that one. Right. That was the Vox. And then I graduated to a big Yamaha organ, still on legs. You know, the kind that you could put in a case and slide into the back of your pontiac which is my parents car that i used to drive to the gigs and then what would be

and so like so you're what the rock band you're just doing covers beatles and stuff that's it we had no uh aspirations to do original material or anything but it was still a great outlet so how did you hook up with this guy how do you pronounce his name munios so the second year you're depressed yeah trying to do the right thing in the summer between first and second year i stayed in toronto yeah i you know i'm playing in a band getting making more money than i would have made but working for canada car or something back up if i got home yeah playing and and staying up all night coming home about 6 a.m walking through the village they had their own kind of greenwich village up there called yorkville and a guy is sitting down on a step of a of a deli playing guitar and I walk three paces and then I turn around immediately

go back and I'm zero in on him like a magnet because he was playing stuff that was fascinating and I had no idea on an acoustic guitar yeah and I said what are you on an acoustic yeah what is that stuff and he basically said well I'll show you I mean you're a player I said well I play a piano but I don't know what he says well you have, I'll show you. I mean, are you a player? I said, well, I play a piano, but I don't know what. He says, well, you have a piano now? I said, well, you know, there's a practice hall over at the university. He said, let's go. And like 7, 8 a.m., we're over there, and he starts showing me stuff right away.

And I started apprenticing with him right away just to learn. And what was the key to that stuff? Well, first he started me on jazz standards, like my parents' music, that I knew but couldn't figure out those chords. Bigger chords, a little more flatted 9s and things like that. He knew piano or he just... He just knew musical theory, and he could play it for me on the guitar,

and then I could figure it out on the piano. And then he said, okay, now we forget all those chords. Now we just play one chord and just see what happens and let me take... And little he said, okay, now we forget all those chords. Now we just play one chord. Yeah. And just see what happens. And let me take... And little by little, he just taught me the principles behind that kind of playing. Of improvisation.

Atonal stuff. Yeah. And yeah. And did you guys play together out? Did you do... We used to play, yeah, sometimes just a duo. Yeah. Well, we'd play at a little restaurant or play like a community hall and stuff.

It was hippie era, you know. Yeah. Girls in long flowered skirts, dancing. Yeah. Stuff with flowers. Just the two of you, though. Yes. And then sometimes we would have a rhythm section, too.

But it was a learning, really strong learning experience. And that paid off. So when you had to play with someone like Miles early on towards the end of his life, I imagine. Yes. Right? Yes. I could do it. You on towards the end of his life, I imagine. Yes. Right? Yes. I could do it.

You could lock in. You're like, I know what he's doing. Well, not exactly, but he gave me some amazing lessons too, Miles, when I got to play with him. What did he say? Well, you know. Pull, pull. Yeah, you know. The thing I did with him was a part of a Bill Murray movie called Scrooge.

Yeah. Billy telling a Christmas Carol story. Yeah. Playing a TV exec or something. And there's a minute when he's walking down the street and he walks by a group of street musicians. Yeah. But the street musicians are Miles and Dave Sanborn and me and Larry Carlton. And it lasts only about six seconds, the shot.

Right. But we got to record a whole six-minute version of We Three Kings of Oriinar with Miles arranging and showing us all how to play sort of like him. And I was playing the bass. He kept coming over and encouraging me. Even singing, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. You know what I'm talking about?

I want to be bum, bum, bum, bum. Oh, yeah, I know. And finally he came over, and I know this will make sense to you as a musician, he said, don't play the root. What? Don't play the root. In other words, we're in the key of C.

Never play a C. Play around it. Hint at it. Imply it. Don't play it. Wow. And when I started doing that, it floated the whole thing, and it all of a sudden sounded like Bitch's Brew or something.

You got it. That was one of the keys. You understood what he meant. Don't play the root. How do you play around it? I haven't played a root since. Really? No, that's not true.

How do you play around the root? Well, I don't know. You sound like you're going, you play five, you know, and usually in music, five goes to one. Yeah. Like in an army. Ah, dum, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. So you play that five, you know,

and everybody thinks you're going to go to the root, but you don't. You know, you go to the sharp one and not the one. All these kind of things. This is what I learned from Miles. It was a million-dollar music lesson. Yeah, I bet. Yeah.

I talked to Crosby in here once, David. Yeah. And he said that, you know, Miles had told him that he covered Guinevere, and, you know, he listened to it, and he said, that's not Guinevere. And I tracked it down. I think it's in the Bitches Brew sessions.

I don't know if it made the record, but I could hear Guinevere. I mean, and it makes sense what you're saying. So you can hear it, and David Crosby can't hear it. Yeah. I don't know why. No idea why, no. No, I mean, it's his song. I guess you're a little more attached to it.

And if you're playing around the root and you wrote the song, you're probably saying, like, that ain't the song. Play the root. Yeah,'re playing around the root and you wrote the song, you're probably saying like, that ain't the song. Play the root. Yeah, Miles, play the root. Playing around the root, play the root. That's what he's saying.

So you got all these chops from this dude. Yes. It taught me a lot, not about rock and roll, but just to be, you know, about expanding one's horizons beyond rock and roll.

And so that, it gives you a certain fearlessness. Helped me out later on when I started getting these opportunities to play with uh you know jazz people and people from say the previous generation sure and so when schwartz gives you this gig yeah to do godspell it's godspell right that's right right so you'd never really led an orchestra like you you had to what did you have to do what was the job yes lead it but luckily it was a four-piece band it was a four-piece rock it's a rock thing yeah it's a rock show so it was perfect and the piano very heavily piano

based like elton john right stuff and lauren nero you know yeah steve schwartz wrote with that in mind so i had to just play that stuff and really uh the drummer was the conductor yeah you know as in a lot of rock bands everybody turns to look at the drummer drummer was the conductor yeah you know as in a lot of rock bands everybody turns to look at the drummer right for the last chord you know that was kind of happening in gospel too so i didn't have to conduct which i had no idea how to do anyway drummer was kind of conducting and we all made it work that way and we were a little rock band it took me a long time to appreciate drummers for the full uh what they deserve you know they are everything you know if the drums make what they deserve you know they are everything

you know if the drums make you dance then you're going to dance and if the drums aren't groovy right you throw the whole thing out like the cats who like you got to be able to swing right you do i mean it sounds like a cliche but there is something to some dudes can't swing groove whatever you want to call it whatever it is this is that's what makes you want to dance i had this weird thing with the the reissue of get your yayas out yeah where where i didn't you know because i've been a stones fan all my life but something about that reissue brought you know bill and charlie up and i'm like holy shit this whole thing would fall apart there's just nothing holding them

together but those two guys they knew even then they knew that that was their function yes hold it together play play together. And that way, anybody can do anything they want on the top of it. Yeah, Keith can do it. But yes, it's all in the drums. And that's why they all bow down to Charlie Watts at the end. You know, they give him the salam, especially at his age. The other thing people don't understand, every song, every rock and roll song for the drummer

is like running a mile. Right. It's so physical. I don't know how they do it. I don't know how they do it. I don't know how they keep time. Well, I don't either, but they got to be in shape. Because who was the first guy? Was Jordan the first guy?

Yes. And then Anton. Steve Jordan. Steve Jordan, he's like a miracle guy. Now he's a huge record producer. Yeah. Fabulous. I mean, he produced the Keith Richards solo stuff.

Did you listen to that blues record they just made? It's pretty good. Yes, yes. It's really good. It is, right? Yeah. Are you friends with Don Was? A little bit, yeah.

I know him from when he used to come on Letterman's Was Not Was. Yeah, yeah. Oh, God, yeah. And now he's the hugest, too. Yeah, he's big, too. He's wonderful. I'm so happy for him. Everyone's big.

You're huge. I don't know. What do you mean? I don't know. I'm here with you, Mark. So that's why I'm sitting in the stairs. Did Keith Richards sit right here? No, Obama sat there. Obama sat here? Are you mean? I don't know. I'm here with you, Mark. So that's why I'm sitting in the stairs. Did Keith Richards sit right here? No, Obama sat there.

Obama sat here? Are you kidding? I was in New York with Keith Richards. Unbelievable. There you go. So you want to talk about who's big. Yeah, yeah. He was a hell of a band leader, Obama.

Well, he could sing. Turned out he could sing. Yeah, he's all right. But all right, so now you do Godspell. So how do you get involved with the funny people? Where, you know, after that, so do you... We were all, it was all our first professional job. You know, Eugene was about 24 or 5.

Yeah. Marty and I, 22. You know, Gilda maybe around the same as Eugene. It was all our first real... But Gilda wasn't Canadian, right? She was not. She was dating somebody. Exactly.

She was from Detroit and she followed her boyfriend up to Canada. And then she became a landed immigrant up there, got her legal status, and she was staying there until they brought her back. They pulled her back down here to do... Right. Well, how did that unfold for you? What was your next gig after that?

I was doing gospel. I did it for a year. We all hung out incessantly. We became very close friends, talked about the show and show business incessantly, nonstop. Yeah. And I was so influenced by all these people and their personalities. And they're just coming up themselves.

And they just seem to be having more fun with their lives than I was. And so I thought, let me become a little more like them. Yeah. And sure enough, you know, there are more laughs to be had when you have that attitude towards life. Right. So they were very influential. And how did the SNL get? Well, the next thing that happened was Stephen Schwartz said, I want you to come to New York.

And after I did his show up there for a year, come to New York. I'm doing a show with Doug Henning, the magician, called The Magic Show. I saw that show. You saw it. Well, you probably heard me on the piano. When I was a kid, I saw it. Yeah, imagine that. Yeah, and Eugene Levy brought it up.

I had no idea it was Canadian. I had no idea that, you know, that Schwartz was involved with it, but I remember going with my grandmother to see that. Yeah, that weird little hippie guy. I heard you guys talking about Doug. He was a hippie magician,

and it was so interesting because he didn't wear the top hat and tails. It's like a tie-dye shirt, I think. Kind of one of us, yeah, and cute with long hair. Is he alive still? No, poor guy. Yeah, died. Became a follower of the Maharishi.

Oh, as so many did. Yes, and then I think he got sick, and he thought maybe he could heal himself through meditation, and what he really needed was some medicine. Yeah, go to the doctor. Poor guy. Anyway, so i came but schwarzberg got brought me into the states and i played in the pit in the magic show with doug and i learned all his tricks i watched every night from behind and i had to sign a uh you know a confidentiality yeah yeah you won't tell yeah the tricks but i must say you know doug uh well he was very hot.

He was a Broadway star. Yeah. So there was a lot. He did pretty well as a single guy. He got around a little bit. Yeah, yeah, sure. And one person that he had one date with was Gilda. Uh-huh.

Gilda Radner. Yeah. He took her out. Yeah. Didn't call her afterwards. Oh. She was so upset, you know, talking to me. Doug didn't call me.

And I got so mad that i sat her down and i told her every trick how every trick was done you know these are the secrets he's a cop man he's not really mad it's an illusion yeah so from there like did you meet musicians there like you know i mean like how did like okay so you do the magic show for how long i did it a year yeah and uh at the end of that um howard shore was the name of lauren michael's band leader who came down from also canadian came down to be the musical director of saturday night live at the very beginning yeah 75 so when did bill murray fall into place did you you had met oh when i got to new y while playing the Magic Show, I loved the National Lampoon records that came out. I remember so clearly this one.

National Lampoon radio show. Yeah, they had a radio hour, and then they put out comedy albums, too. Yeah, right, the Lemmings. Yes, there was one where there was a sketch, Chris Guest as Bob Dylan selling on a TV ad greatest protest hits of the 60s, you know, being so commercial. Plus, if you order now, you get my own Masters of War. Call now, you know, but it's Dylan.

And I thought, boy, that's funny. That's what I want to do. And Billy's older brother, Brian, who I mentioned earlier, he introduced me around right away when I got to New York to some National Lampoon people. That was his scene. I met Chris and I met Billy, his younger brother. He said, you've got to meet my brother. You guys have the same kind of a sense of humor.

Before long, I was doing stuff for the lampoon and Billy and I did a song together, actually, for a Christmas show which was called Kung Fu Christmas. As you remember, in the early 70s, Rhythm and Blues. Everybody was Kung Fu. Everybody was about Kung Fu. Everybody was about kung fu. Yeah, no matter what.

R&B was kung fu. So we said, what if there was an R&B record called Kung Fu Christmas? And Billy sang it. We worked on it together. Gilda was one of the writers. Brian, too. For National Lampoon Radio Hour? Yeah, Radio Hour.

Yeah, yeah. So you're part of that crew. Chevy was there, too, right? Yes, although I didn't meet Chevy yet. He had been in Lemmings, but then I guess he moved to the coast right after that. Okay. So I didn't meet him. And then what, Belushi?

Belushi was one of the first guys I met in Toronto. Doug Kenny, the legendary Doug Kenny. I was at Belushi's house, and Kenny was trying to sell Belushi, I think, on the idea of doing a live show. For the National Lampoon. Yeah, which they ended up doing in a midtown theater. All right, so you're doing the National Lampoon. Yeah, which they ended up doing in a midtown theater. All right, so you're doing the National Lampoon radio. Now, Howard Shore is the musical director for the beginning of SNL,

when it was like a variety show more than anything else. Well, certainly there were two musical guests instead of just one. Yeah. And they each did two songs, I think. Yeah. The first musical guest was Janis Ian. Sure.

Doing it at 17, and then Billy Preston. Oh, doing nothing from nothing? Yes, yes. And I sneaked around during a break and looked at his organ and saw how he had it set up. Yeah? And I said, ah, you know, and I learned a few things. Do you like the way he plays?

Oh, he was a big, big influence. I had some of these early instrumental album, organ instrumentals, produced by Sly Stone up in San Francisco. Oh, yeah? I used to put him on, slow him down, trying to figure out what he did. Really? Listen to that sound. How does he get that sound?

So you're hanging around, you're watching Billy Preston. How do you get the gig? Howard just hired me. I had played a show with him in Toronto, and he just liked me. He knew I was in town already. He hired me, and I left the Magic Show. He's Canadian, too? Yes, he is, yeah.

Now he's a huge movie writer, movie scorer. Howard hired me for the band and then, you know, but I already knew Gildan, I knew Belushi, I knew Aykroyd and stuff. So, very natural for me to start working with them. Well, I picture you hanging out with those guys as the laughing guy.

Were you the one laughing? Absolutely. Laughing and remembering what people said. Oh, yeah. Sometime repeating it to myself just to lock it in. You were the laughing guy. Just so I'd remember it later. And also I'd get a second laugh on their line, you know, by just repeating their. But did they ever come up to you and go like, Paul, you remember that thing we were doing?

Sometimes they do. Or sometimes I will just remember that and they'll say, that's funny. And I say, well, you should be. You said it. What. You said it. What? You said it in 1974. I do have a crazy memory like that. Really?

Yeah. Yeah. So you got it. So we started, you know, in those days, Loan used to have a Wednesday afternoon in a rehearsal studio just to kind of toss things around, like maybe come up with ideas, maybe come up with musical ideas. We were like a big Second city rep company when we first

and i was the piano player so i started developing stuff with them and writing stuff with them right well i mean i remember there was there was a lot of musical numbers that throughout the years on snl when you were there yes and we would just start i mean the show wasn't locked into a format right two musical guests you know then it went down to one who was the crew the original not ready for prime time yes so it's chevy um and belushi and akroyd and and garrett and then we had jane curtain lorraine newman gilda radner right i think that was that was it that yeah so chevy left after you know sometime in the second season and billy came in yeah really as as his replacement but in that first crew and you guys are just trying to figure out what the show season and billy came in yeah really as as his replacement but in that first crew and

you guys are just trying to figure out what the show is and working this stuff out who is the most like you know consistently surprising like like funny like just where you're like holy shit that guy or that woman yeah were and every it was so competitive it was from the beginning yes and they'll admit it now everybody there's only so much camera time. Sure. Everybody wanted to get on that show. Yeah. And Lorne sort of ran it almost like a T-group therapy or something.

You know, whatever happens out of the group, he'll support it, you know. So relationships got formed almost like Survivor. What do they call it? Alliance. People formed alliances. Yeah, right. All kinds of things. Right from the beginning.

Writers, you know, performers would have to form an alliance with a writer so that they had somebody to write for them. That was going on right at the beginning. Yes, stay up all night, you know, writing something. Was Frank in there then? Yes, Frank was there right at the beginning. Was the original right? Frank sometimes refers to a party that he had at his house

before SNL went on the air to watch the Howard Cosell. His show was called Saturday Night Live. And we got together at Frank's and I was there, you know, to get that historic party as we watched Howard Cosell. And he had a rep company too with Billy and Brian Murray and Chris Guest. That was his rep company. Come on. Yes.

No, he did not. Yes, he had like a rep company that would come back. Yeah, he had. He was going to be like the new Ed Sullivan. He was doing his show out of the Ed Sullivan Theater. Same year, 75, same year as Saturday Night. And his show was called Saturday Night Live, and it was in primetime. And his rep company was called the Primetime Players.

And that's why Lauren called his, they're not ready for primetime players. Howard Cosell. Yes. How long did that last not very long didn't last very long and that's why you know then we got to call our show saturday night live so who is who are the writers was franken and davis franken and davis and then uh what's his name uh trying to think of the writers michael o'donohue of course right but the other guy swybell so alan swybell yeah who formed an alliance with Gilda and wrote a lot of her stuff. Marilyn Suzanne Miller of the women.

Rosie Schuster. Yep. Ann Beetz. Yeah. Some of those original writers. Oh, Donahue. Oh, Donahue. It was crazy.

Jim Downey came in a little bit later. Yeah, but Michael was a trip, huh? Well, he had his own thing, certainly. And he, I mean, he was a sweetheart of a guy. Yeah. But, of course, his writing, he was a sweetheart of a guy. Yeah. But of course, his writing style was on a macabre side. Out there. For sure.

Yeah. But it found its place. We all got to know and love him and appreciate his humor. For sure. And it was certainly, you know, the dangerous part of SNL. A lot of that came from Michael O'Donohue. Yeah. Died young too, huh?

Too young. Yeah. So when did the band become its own thing? On SNL? Yeah. Well, I mean, when does a band become its own thing? What do you mean? Well, I mean, like, you know,

I'm trying to remember the first season, and I remember you, but, you know, it's certainly that band like coming in and out of commercial and then remember you but you know it's certainly that that band like coming in and out of commercial and and then like the different manifestations of it but your band you know which was the band who went on to back the blues brothers on that record right with uh with well no we picked some people out of it we poached steve jordan and the horn some of the horn players from snl live but then we got them from all other places. But who was in the original?

Legit guys. You weren't originally the music director. No, Howard was, and I was the piano player. Right. But you know what? I used to, unabashedly, I was such a big Elton John fan. I know, you wore those glasses. I wore those big white glasses.

Just as a tribute to him, and I didn't care, which is his trademark. Why do you wear it? Well, because I love him. Somehow it worked for me, too. If there was a shot of the band, you'd see those big white glasses. I thought you were in charge. I always thought you were in charge.

I know. Well, Howard didn't feel comfortable being like Stan Kenton, standing in front of a band conducting. He wanted to get off stage. One time he tried having a desk on stage. You guys will be playing, and I'd be kind of sitting at a desk. Anything that he wouldn't have to be an old-fashioned kind of band leader. So, you know,

it kind of felt him. I became sort of a little bit more seen on this thing. And I think it was a gradual thing. Well, when Lily Tomlin did show number six and sang St. James Infirmary. Yeah, yeah. And we all dressed up.

Howard and his band dressed up as nurses. We had to wear nurses outfits. I remember that, yeah. Yeah, well, that may have been, you know, the first time the band got some serious exposure. And I learned that pantyhose can ride up. It's an important show business lesson. Yes.

Almost as important as the Miles advice. Exactly. Don't play the root. Don't wear hose in a bid. That's right. So how long were you, did you eventually become the musical director? No, I never was.

Howard was for the whole five years that I was there, yeah. But I was a writer of special musical material, and then I started performing a little bit. Now, what's the story about you had the fuck, you said the fuck? You said the fuck? That's right. I was the first guy to say fuck on live TV. And I'm not proud of it.

But it was a legitimate mistake. I did not do it on purpose like some others have been accused of doing. We were doing, I think this was the fifth season. Did you ever hear the Trogs tape? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's one of those underground Buddy Rich kind of tapes where you hear the troggs tape yeah yeah it's one of those underground right buddy rich kind of tapes where you hear the troggs in the studio trying to follow up their big hit wild thing but they have no way to communicate musically right they don't know

how to you know how to get an arrangement together so they kept saying you know you had the fucking bait you were playing the fucking you had it before yeah so we we transcribed franken davis actually transcribed it yeah reframed it as a medieval band yeah uh rehearsing uh belushi in a guest appearance he had left the show but came back as a guest and we were rehearsing as a medieval band i was acting in it but playing but saying the lines of the troggs but since it was television we instead of saying fuck, we were saying flog. You had the flogging beat. And I remember Frank, and in between,

after the dress rehearsal came out to me, he said, you're getting some good laughs with that flogging. Feel free to expand, add a few more if you want. Well, that's all I needed to hear. I was on my own. I was saying flogging this,

flogging that. And then once I said the fucking beat, and I just slipped. And I said, oh my God. And then I've seen the tape. You see my head turn to the side. I'm going,ogging this, flogging that. And then once I said the fucking beat and I just slipped. And I said, oh, my God. And then I've seen the tape. You see my head turned to the side. I'm going, oh, my God. And then, oh, my God, where are we in the scene?

I come back. You know, where are the cards? I didn't know what to do. I thought, this is it for me. Was it on a delay then or no? No. So it played. It went out there.

But you know what? We were doing English accents and bad ones at that. People didn't even, I think people didn't notice. Most people didn't even notice. Lorne did, and he came over and he said, well, you just broke down the last barrier. And he was very sweet about it because he knew that it was really a mistake.

It wasn't, I wasn't just trying to cause a flare up and say fuck for the course of it. But that is, yes, my claim to fame. And what was your relationship with Lorne over the years? Good? Always terrific. Yeah? I've got to say,

I was Howard's piano player, you know? Yeah. So came aboard under those, not even working directly for Lorne, but for Howard. Right, so you're once removed.

But he was always so generous. I mean, he'd be in, you know, late at night, we're there all night because none of us had girlfriends or anything else to do.

Yeah, yeah. And Lorne would be in his office like with chevy and paul simon shelly duvall paul come on in we're just running a few you know what do you think about this and i'm the piano player from canada yeah what do you think about this this funny and this lauren you know i don't know why but he was so very equanimous yeah at that time also your fellow canadian maybe that had something to do and you're probably a good laugher. He was very, perhaps. He trusted your judgment. He liked to hear a good laugh.

And so he really did from the very beginning. He included me in the creative team and I'll always be so grateful to that. I had a lot of wonderful experiences. Is he in your phone? Lorne is not in my phone, but his email is in my phone. Oh, good.

Okay. Yes, yes. I could email him right now. Let's email him, see if he responds. So, all right so you do you do snl for five years and like the blues like what was it like belushi like was he like uh like what kind of guy was he was he a nice guy yes he was a very nice guy uh with immense appetites we we've all you know everybody knows very diplomatic way of putting and well it was

just one of those things you know at that At that time, I guess, you know, there was a lot of it going around, and some people... Nobody knew that anybody was going to die. Yeah. From it, and then he died from it. But he had gone pretty far with it. Yeah, no, yeah, yeah. Never sleeping and stuff.

And so when we would all, you know, write that show and work on bits, then go back to sleep, he'd go out. You know, that's when he would just come alive. Right. He always operated at that level of energy full-on full-on yeah yeah he kind of like there's something about that type the way he did comedy you know sort of made such an impression on so many generations of guys a lot of heavy guys for some reason yeah that's sort of like all in all the time and no matter what kind of shape he was in when he rolled in on Saturday, you could depend on him to kill.

Yeah. He was a dependable performer. So a writer, you know, if it was a sketch, you knew he was going to deliver. Yeah, yeah. No matter what kind of shape he was in, hungover or whatever he was, you know, and he always did. Yeah. Always did. So how does the shift to like, how do you get the Letterman gig?

Because it was in the building? Yes. Well, sort of. I left Saturday Night Live with everybody else, the whole original company. And Lorne, everybody left after five years. And I couldn't see sticking around any longer. You know, I was so young that I was thinking, you know, hey, I'm just getting started. What's next?

And also you're learning now how to play with, to play with people, performers that come in, right? Exactly. That's your first experience of that. Yes, and also doing a little studio work, which I really wanted to do, a studio piano player. And you did a lot of that? Getting a little of that and being on Saturday Night Live gave me exposure in that area, too.

Let's call that piano player. I heard him. He can do such and such. Who'd you play with? Everybody? Yeah, a long time. I made a record with John Mayall. Oh, John Mayall. I heard him, you know, he can do such and such. Who'd you play with? Everybody? Yeah, a long time. I made a record with John Mayall.

Oh, John Mayall. I talked to him. He's been in here. I don't know why his name came to mind, but all these different things. Joan Armitrading, the great British artist,

I made a record with her. I can't even remember a lot. I did a Yoko Ono. I did some sessions for her. You did? How was that? Yes, yes. I did a Yoko Ono. I did some sessions for her. You did? How was that? Yes, yes. She was remarkably together in the studio.

Did that improvisational stuff come in handy for her? Well, of course she had to be on her level. Yeah. But some of the things, I mean, I think I played on a record called Walking on Thin Ice. Okay. One of her, you know, well-known records. Did you meet John? Never got to meet John.

Oh. I met the other three john uh never got to meet john oh i met the other three beatles and never got to me i got close to john when he was there was a period of time when he couldn't get into the u.s because of prior drug convictions i mean he was doing a lot of shut him out yes and he was doing a lot of stuff in toronto and canada montreal for that for that reason yeah and i went to a press conference once when he was announcing we're going to have a big peace festival. And that was like as close as I ever got to John Lennon, but just it was momentous. Well, I remember in that first five years of SNL,

there was this constant like this idea that Lorne was going to bring the Beatles back together, right? Well, of course, he had that funny sketch where he was offering them $3,000 for the four of them and he would say I don't know how you want to split it up you want to give Ringo less yeah whatever you guys want but here is the check yeah anyway that was a running bit very funny and then we've all heard the story about how the Lennon and McCartney who weren't on such great terms but somehow they

were visiting they were together that night yeah and they saw it and they said we should go down we should go right. It's only a couple blocks away. And then they both realized they were too tired. Oh. George Harrison showed up, right? Harrison did it, one of the shows that I missed.

I was out here doing something. And I remember watching it. Yes, Harrison and Paul Simon sang. Right. I do, out of here comes the sun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think that was pre-taped. I was so excited.

I was always so excited to watch that. Because I was a kid. I was just kind excited to watch that now because I was a kid. I was just kind of 13 or 14. So staying up for it, my parents letting me stay up for it, it felt like really kind of racy stuff. I think it's the same today. I think they're still having that effect and kids still want to see it. Well, now it's become very relevant and they've really got their teeth sunk in.

They sure do. Yeah. It's incredible. It's better than it's been in a long time yes it is they got a great cast going so all right so letterman what you run into him in the hall so no uh two years went by and i'm doing studio work and and i just got a call from his manager's office can he he's getting a show it's going to come on after johnny carson come in and meet him and i went in and just had a cold meeting just

like this and we kind of hit it off and he said um I used to see you on Saturday Night Live he mentioned the Bill Murray things when Billy would do the lounge singer yeah he loves Bill Murray yes he loves Bill yeah and still does and he remembered that Bill Murray lounge singer stuff yeah when he was Nick Winters right right and I would always be in the scene playing the piano and I would help put those together too with a number of other writers. And he mentioned that. And he claims to this day

that he never had anybody else in mind, wanted me for the job. Anyway, we hit it off. He said, what kind of band would you put together? I said, well, I can only have four pieces. That was kind of the rule. I'd love to have an R&B band playing the great R&B classics instrumental.

He said, well, I've always thought of myself as the Wayne Cochran of comedy anyway. And I said, what? What an obscure reference. What is that? Wayne Cochran was a regional guy in Miami, had one hit going back to Miami, and he was known as the White James Brown, because he did a James Brown kind of act, sang that way. And he had totally white hair, teased up into a huge pompadour Jaco played with him

exactly yeah exactly and I saw that yeah I saw it in Toronto Wayne Calkin with Jaco Pastorius on bass

yeah never I never got it it was the strongest thing I ever saw I bet incredible so that was

and I think they took Jaco to the hospital after that I remember oh really you know he knocked himself out on that on that bass guitar

yeah and he fell collapsed from exhaustion. No kidding. That's how heavy they were. He had like 10 horns who came through the audience at the beginning. I mean, it was so exciting. He didn't have a great vocal instrument, but he had a lot of soul.

Yeah. So you only wanted four? You know what? And I've read this. I think it's probably true. There were certain laws laid down by johnny carson who of course controlled that time slot that was going to follow him yeah and he said now i don't want you know you can't be doing the same show you can't have the same guests that i

have you can't do a monologue like i do that's why dave used to only do about three jokes at the top and then right and that was the reason and you can't have a big band like i have you have four right well this is perfect for me because i came up you know in canada playing in these little rock bands i know how to do four yeah great you know let me add it so you had jordan and and hyrum yes and will yeah and me that was it the four of us and we could really turn on a dime we could play anything we knew all the styles you know we could play for anybody yeah it was a terrific yeah a little little unit that we had and i hired guys who knew all because even though these guys were like jazz players and very accomplished studio they still loved the same rock and roll as i love they just didn't necessarily

admit it you know right sure and i got them playing satisfaction and we're going to do good loving and stuff and everybody said well it's kind of funny you play these records right yeah and there really is something to them yeah so we weren't just playing Satisfaction. We were really seeing what is great about it. Well, the way the bass moves against the guitar is so cool. It makes a different kind of quality. So you made it challenging and exciting. And we just tried to do it right for the first time.

People noticed that it sounded kind of like the record. We'd play these intros, and it sounded like the record. And then before the vocalists were supposed to come in, and there was no vocal, we'd just play it instantly. We'd already be in commercial. So people would be saying, wow, what am I missing? What am I missing? Well, you know what?

Did you keep playing? Yeah, we played all the way through. I got that from Saturday Night Live. You know, we were live. You go on break, and you got to entertain. And there's a live band. And they said to me at the beginning of Letterman, and of course, you'll record the theme, and we'll play the recording every night. And I said, wait at the beginning of Letterman, you know, and of course you'll record the theme

and we'll play the recording every night. And I said, wait a minute, I'm not going to record. It's live. We're trying to make it like it's live, even though we're going to tape it in the afternoon. We've got to play live. Yeah. So, you know, I won that battle at least,

and we played the theme live every night. Well, it was like, it was always great to see you guys on the Letterman show, the first one, and then, you know, the second one too. But like, because you're always nailing the songs perfect and then like the rapport starts you know you you somehow develop this strange rapport with dave that that remained pretty consistent through all however many years you were with him yeah that you know like i don't know if like sometimes you you you seem like you might not have heard what he said. Yeah. Well, and sometimes I didn't.

I'm a little deaf, you know, after all these years of rock and roll. But also, it would take me a little time. I mean, I'm not a comic, you know. But that was the funniest thing about it. Sometimes it would take me a minute to think of what to say, but then I'd come back and say, you know, wait, bring the camera back. I thought of something. Come back.

Come back. That became the funny part about you two is that like your weird stilted timing because you weren't right well thank you for complimenting my weird stilted timing but whatever it was but then sometimes you just nail it and you're like and it almost sometimes

Dave it was just a funny rapport every night you know every night but he was so generous really and would say to me and how many bosses would say if you have anything jump in night. But he was so generous, really, and would say to me, and how many bosses would say, if you have anything, jump in, anytime. And he actually said that to me. Really? Jump in anytime. I don't care if I'm with a guest or anything.

From the very beginning. Yes, and that was such encouragement and confidence building for me. Not from the very beginning. Very beginning, they did say, well, can you, are you the kind of guy that Dave could play off? Can you play with? I say, absolutely, yes. But they never really gave me the the opportunity i had to grab it myself

right you know i just grabbed the mic and one day and started talking you know what the mic wasn't even turned on oh my god well they don't even know you're gonna tell well you know then i had to make sure my mic is on when i talk i might say oh i don't think they want it on yeah what you know i had to get that no we want it on okay so then they were going to turn it on then i got that i introduced the band one night and dave cracked up you know and he said do do more of that do more he was very very encouraging and you guys like had a good rapport you'd go out to dinner sometimes yes yes and we still do we still see each other we commiserate a little bit. Oh, that's great. You know, let us like to be two later in life gentlemen.

Oh, good. And how old are your kids, though? He's got a young kid. Mine are pretty young, too. I didn't get married until I was 40. My daughter's 24. My son, 18. Okay.

So you're still in it? Still in it, yeah. Son's still at home. Daughter on her own. But son, you know, a senior in high school. Sure. Going through, you know, where is he going to go to college? That's what we're living through now, that pressure.

Oh, yeah. Well, it'll work out. Did he do all right? Oh, yeah. He's got some choices. He's terrific. Well, I mean, terrific student. Oh, good.

So one of the things I wondered is how do you decide when somebody needs your support, you know, when they perform on the show with Letterman? Because, like, sometimes you guys play. Sometimes they bring their own operation. What is that discussion? First of all, we're talking about a show that hasn't been on the air in two years. Let's just remember that.

We're talking almost like we're going to do a show tonight. It's history. Yeah, well, what happened? When we were at NBC, we had a very small studio. I know that studio. The acts would be encouraged to play with my band. Just out of space. Yeah, space.

And also, we would have then something to offer the audience, something different that you didn't see on MTV all the time. Them in another environment, playing with new musicians and stuff. It was very interesting. When we moved to CBS, partly the stage was bigger and things got a little more competitive.

And, of course, it's the easiest thing, if Katy Perry's going to do the show, easiest if she just brings her whole band and whatever else. She doesn't have to worry about it. She doesn't have to worry about it. So it got a little bit more people bringing their own self-contained stuff. And every once in a while, somebody says, oh, I'd like Paul to play along or somebody from the band.

It would be up to the artist. really yeah yeah because like i know when you jump in it's it's always uh you know it's great you you love doing it of course i love i'm sorry i don't mean to talk about it like it's the present no no i love that i mean but for a minute i thought gee i'm late i gotta get it but you 33 years it doesn't just go away it's it's very you know it stays with you that sure but you got opportunities to play with all these amazing guys i remember zoe took me to dylan sound fredman zoe friedman who was our our talent yeah especially for comics yeah she gave me my first letterman oh i love it great and uh i remember she told me to like she knew i was a dylan fan she said he can come over and watch the soundcheck. It was just so funny because I don't remember what he played.

Do you? First time he was on when he had those guys from the Cruzados or something playing with him. He had never met them before. Was that Sexton or wasn't? Was the Cruzados? Yeah, yeah. Three guys that I don't think he ever played with again.

Interesting. He just brought them on. I don't know even where they go. And in the soundcheck, he played a million different songs, none of which he played on the air. Interesting. He just brought them on. I don't know even where they go. And in the soundtrack, he played a million different songs, none of which he played on the air. Yeah. One of them was Treat Her Right by Roy Head, one of my favorite oldies.

Dylan doing that. Imagine. And he just like play with you guys? He just, he was playing with his own band and just trying them out on things. Well, I just remember he was like, when I was there, I saw him like just walk around and he started talking to what's her name, the guitar player felicia yeah felicia you know like you know i got one of those uh how do you like that like it was very funny just to see him become

human yes yes yeah so i did get to play with him uh you know later in cbs i think he did uh forever young that was the one i saw. Okay, so yes. I think he just asked me to play the organ. He didn't have a keyboard at that time, so I played organ along with him. Thrilled. It was exciting, right? Thrilled, yeah.

Thrilled. Who else were some of your memories where you're like, holy shit, I'm playing with this guy? Well, James Brown. That's my go-to. I always mention it because I never got over it.

He made us play so well. Oh, really? We never thought we could. That's a band leader, huh? Yeah. I mean, when he starts shaking that ass, I mean, you just can't. And his voice becomes another instrument, another part of the groove, and it just makes everybody sound good.

Oh, yeah. We were skying. I remember Steve Jordan and I, we both got our first VCRs at the time. That's when it was, like, 82, you know? VCRs. And we taped that Letterman show., like, 82, you know? VCRs. And we taped that Letterman show. We used to watch it every night religiously and memorize not only the musical stuff,

but the dialogue. We had all the dialogue when he interviewed by Dave. And at the very end, he did a third song spontaneously. He said, you know what I'd like to do right now? Before you close, can we close with I got the feeling. And then you hear Jordan's voice. Whoa! You hear him from over on the top.

Dave says, yeah, we'll take a commercial. We'll come back. And James commandeered the show. Yeah. And Dave loved it. Never forget it. That's fucking beautiful.

And what, now, we sort of skipped over that Blues Brothers thing. Now, like it seemed to me like when the Blues Brothers band, like I remember, I knew all their names

because Blue Lou Marini. What happened to that guy? Oh, still around. Plays with James Taylor regularly. And who's your trombone guy? Tom Bones Malone. Bones Malone. He played with me on Letterman all these years.

Yep, yep. And he's with me actually today, yeah. And he, on the new record, he's going to do a Kimmel show. We're doing Jimmy Kimmel tomorrow. Yep, yep. And he's with me actually today. Yeah. And he, on the new record, he's going to do a Kimmel show. We're doing Jimmy Kimmel tomorrow.

That's exciting. Yeah, Tom came out to do it. Who else is with you forever on this record? On the record? Well, I mean, Will Lee,

Felicia, who you mentioned, the whole band, Sid McGinnis, and Aaron Huyck and Frank Green are my two more recent horn players.

Who was the guitar player before Felicia? What was that guy's name? Sid McGinnis and he's still with her. Yeah, are my two more recent horn players. Who was the guitar player before Felicia? What was that guy's name? Sid McGinnis. And he's still with her. Yeah, I had two guitars with Felicia and him. Right, right, yeah. And he's on it too, yes.

He can really play all the different things. Yes, all different stuff. Plays steel guitar too. Could play with the country acts, you know. But when he did the Blues Brothers, it really seemed to me that Belushi was pretty earnest about it. Yes. He liked playing.

He liked singing. He loved singing. I mean, everybody wanted to be a rock and roll star. He liked playing. He liked singing. He loved singing. I mean, everybody wanted to be a rock and roll star. Sure. Not just Belushi, but he had an opportunity to do it. And there was a real tour with a real plane. And yes, we were a real band for a while there, even though we put it together as really a sort of a good natured

tribute to the music that we loved. He wanted to do it. Yes, he wanted to do it. He sold some tickets. Yes, we did quite nicely. Didn't Chevy play keyboards? Not with the Blues Brothers. No, but...

Chevy is a pianist, yes, and a jazz pianist, influenced by Bill Evans, and one of Chevy's musical clients is famous. He had a band in college with Donald Fagan. Oh, right, right. And he played drums. Yeah. He played rock drums in that.

You love Steely Dan? Of course I love Steely Dan. How can you not? Well, I. And he played drums. Yeah. He played rock drums in that. You love Steely Dan? Of course I love Steely Dan. How can you not? Well, I'm trying to come around. To them? Yeah. Well, you've got to see, did you see that show that Mulaney and Nick Crowe did? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, oh, hello. That's all about Steely Dan for some reason. I didn't, I wasn't sure why. It really was? Yeah, I saw it on Broadway. They talk a lot about Steely, how these two older Upper West Side gentlemen, they happen to love Steely Dan. They have an argument about it during the show.

Oh, I don't remember that. I've been on that show. I don't know what the Broadway version ended up being. Well, the same one thing about the Broadway version, they have a guest doing that too much tuna bit every night. So I did that. I got on stage. And you riffed it out with them? You riffed out the tuna thing? Yes. So I did that. I got on stage. And you riffed it out with him?

You riffed out the tuna thing? Yes, but I had one joke I didn't tell. I'm always sorry. I meant to tell it. Two old Jewish jazz musicians on the Upper West Side, they're sitting on a park bench. First guy says to the other, Oi.

Second guy says, I'm hip. So that, you know, I'll pretend that I told them. You should have them integrate that into the show. Yeah, bring it back, yeah. I like those guys. They're very funny. So how did you get involved with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? That's a regular gig for you now, right?

It has been. This is the first year, though, that it's all, aside from Joe Baez. I like how you wipe your face and head with a Kleenex like a musician. Like Louis Armstrong. Yeah, like Louis Armstrong. Like Louis Armstrong. Yeah, like Louis Armstrong. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, well, it's kind of a little warm in here.

I'm sorry. We can't have the air on because it would interfere with the sound, of course. I'm familiar with that. Don't worry about it. What were we talking about? The Rock and Roll Hall thing. Oh, yeah, yeah. So as a studio musician, one time I got a call. Come in in an afternoon, it's Robert

Plant. And it turned out to be that project, The Honey Drippers. Oh, that's good. With Robert doing old rock and roll. You did that first record? Yes. And I played on, you know, Good Rockin' at Midnight and also that first one. Nice fella?

I can't remember the name of it. At first, it was kind of a ballad. Yeah. Terrific guy, and to hear his voice in your headphones is a hell of an experience. I bet. But Ahmet was producing it, co-producing with him. Ahmet Ertegun?

Ahmet Ertegun, yes. And that's when I met Ahmet, and Ahmet likes what I did. He could say I was familiar with those old styles. And Ahmet hired me for the very first Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction dinner when they were saying, you know, we can't ask the people to play they're here to be honored you know let's what we'll do is we'll take a picture at the end of the night we'll get everybody on stage for a picture and then we'll just happen to have amplifiers there and see if anybody picks

up guitars well of course they did and they were all but it was totally spontaneous jam session yeah and that's you know i was able to kind of lead that one advantage i had was that a lot of the players had done letterman individually sure sitting in with me on an individual basis and so they knew my signals they got used to my signals you know and so if i held up four fingers in the middle of this big rock and roll hall of fame jazz everybody would know go to the four chord you know go to ever and see go to f yeah those kind of things right oh uh it worked out and i kept calling i never took the gig for granted i every year i wonder if they're going to call me this year everybody's self-contained they got yes they got journey you know and stuff like that steve's gonna

play with journey uh i'm not saying that no i'm not sure what's going on with that so there's always last year i was like where's rich that. There's always some. Last year, I was like, where's Richie? Yes, there's always some negotiation. It's wild, right? Somebody, well, these things go run deep, you know, when these bands break up. And strangely enough, it's often about money. How they're going to split up the money, you know.

Whatever it is, they can't forgive each other. And year after year, there was somebody who didn't want to play. And, oh, can't you just put bygones aside and be honored with the rest of it? You know, no, these things are serious. I know. They can't want to play. And, oh, can't you just put bygones aside and be honored with the rest of it? You know, no, these things are serious. I know. They can't get over it. So, like, but what is your job in that

when they're self-contained? Do you still have to... No, no, I don't have to do anything. You have to take out their own guys and... Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but you're still there. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, I'm still there. For the big thing at the end.

There's always... You know, now it's more of a television show and the numbers are rehearsed and stuff, and there isn't always a big thing at the end. It's always, it's got to be a little more polished so they can show it on TV. Right, right, right. It's funny, like, those big things at the end.

I think Scorsese sort of established that with The Last Waltz, that that's the way that goes. I suppose so, yeah. Right? Yeah, well, that was certainly the definitive rock concert. Sure. And Ronnie Wood seems to show up at everything. He loves to play and is a very happy-go-lucky guy.

You like his playing? I do like it. Well, he's a talented guy and he can play anything. That tone, right, from the basses? I did a wonderful thing with him once in the 80s, with Fats and Friends. It was on Cinemax at the time. Fats Domino?

Fats Domino, Ray Charles, and Jerry Lee Lewis. Oh, wow. And me with the house band with Ronnie Wood in the band. Yeah, yeah. And each of them does their set, each of the three great piano players, and then they do a big thing at the end, where we all try to play jambalaya together and stuff. And so the Canadian rockers did all right, a few of them,

Bachman, Turner, Overdrive, and those guys. Did you know those guys? Yes, not at the time but when I was a kid the Guess Who you know with Randy Bachman was in it American Woman yes during those times those guys were from Winnipeg, Manitoba

that was 500 miles away from Thunder Bay where I was from so at Christmas time they were always playing our town to get enough money to buy Christmas presents so they could go home for Christmas. Yeah. So I saw them extensively, the Guess Who? Oh, yeah.

And I've gotten to know Bachman a little bit more recently. Yeah. Did some sort of a thing with him, a DVD thing. Oh, yeah. BTO reunion and stuff. I got to play that piano on Taking Care of Business. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Terrific.

And Alana Rockers, yeah, but you know what? MTV, when that started started up we saw a lot of canadians brian adams rush and yeah exactly rush and triumph triumph yes and uh um these people had world uh influence yeah uh when i was a kid it was like gordon lightfoot that was it i'll tell you man that, that, you know, it's with some of these guys that you realize, especially the folk guys, like if they knock out, you know, one or two, like, you know, like John Prine has a lot of songs,

but like Gordon Lightfoot, like if you could read my mind. Yeah. What a fucking song. Beautiful. It's all you need, right? Absolutely. And he's got a couple of them. He does have a couple of them.

Sundown was another good right. Absolutely. And he's got a couple of them. He does have a couple of them. Sundown was another good one. Yeah, yeah. The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald, I think, was a great story. But Americans do love that. I think Americans may like it more than Canadians. Oh, yeah? But if that, you know, if you had had Triumph and all that stuff, people coming out and, what was it, working for the weekend?

Yeah, yeah. I can't remember. Everybody's working. Yeah, I can't remember what that was. Loverboy? Loverboy, yes. I might not have had to have. I can't believe I can't remember. Everybody's working for the Weekend. Yeah, I can't remember what that was. Loverboy? Loverboy, yes. I might not have had to have. I can't believe I didn't know.

I might not have met. Yes, you pulled that one. I might not have had to leave Canada, you know, but at the time, you just, there wasn't much of a music scene in Canada at the time when I had to come to the U.S. I get a little flack for busting on Rush a little bit, and I want to try to set the record straight

because I've heard because of my past comments of not liking Rush that Geddy Lee's a very nice guy and Leaf and they're all good guys and they're brilliant musicians. Do you know them? I don't really know them. I have met them

and when they were inducted in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame it was a time when we did the show from here in Los Angeles and their audience was Fame, it was a time when we did the show from here in Los Angeles. And their audience was full of Rush fans. Their fans are devoted. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I must say, I got them that night. They're good. So Yes is going to be in this year?

Yes is one of the groups, yes. I can't remember. Tupac. Uh-huh. Joan Baez. Oh, yeah. She just released a record, or reissued a few records. She's amazing.

She has a beautiful voice. So, Paul, are you going to tour with this outfit? Yes, this spring I am. Wow. Even in this day and age, it seems to be important to be able to go out and have an act and be able to entertain. I'm looking forward to doing it. April 1st through July 1st, we're going to be out there doing shows all over the place. And the album's just called The World's Most Dangerous Band.

Yes, the album is The Artist, Paul Schaefer and the World's Most Dangerous Band. On Sire Records. Sire Records, exactly. Are you kidding? I'm the white Madonna. Well, thanks for talking to me, buddy. A pleasure, Mark. A lot of fun.

Paul Schaefer, ladies and gentlemen. I love that guy. I love talking to him. I liked sitting across from him and looking at him. I like Paul Schaefer. Go to WTFpod.com. Slash tour for my upcoming tour dates. I've got dates in Austin, Denver, Boulder, Portland, D.C., Philly, Madison, Milwaukee, and Minneapolis.

Coming up, so those pique your interest. Go to WTFpod.com slash tour. And, you know, do what you got to do. Can't play any guitar today. Just can't do it. It's too early and I got I'm harried

I'm sorry I know it's going to break a lot of hearts Boomer lives! We'll be right back. you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know, we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.