WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 804 - Amanda Peet / W. Kamau Bell

Episode Date: April 19, 2017

Marc is a fan of Amanda Peet when she's playing funny, quirky characters, like in Togetherness or Brockmire, and when she's cold-hearted and mean, like in Changing Lanes or Syriana. He finds out in person if those two sides of Amanda come to the surface in real life. Also, W. Kamau Bell stops by to talk about some of his projects and winds up talking with Marc about pretty much everything going on in the world. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you what the fuckers, what the fuck buddies, what the fucking ears, what the fuckadelics, what's happening? I'm Mark Maron, this is my podcast wtf it's an institution i just added that like a tag it's an institution my podcast wtf it's an institution i don't know what it is it's been going on a while man 800 episodes just a couple of episodes ago 2009 i can't believe it

big show today big show it's actually it's almost a double header i would say uh i have w camau bell on and he came in to sort of talk about his new book but it ended up being a nice long interview about a lot of a lot of relevant stuff and you he's been on before, so we usually do the short promo interviews if people want to stop by that are friends of the show. But it just ended up being good, so it's almost a full interview. And after that, Amanda Peet is here from her new project, Brockmire. And I always liked Amanda Peet. I always liked her when she was mean in things. And then she did that funny thing with the Duplasses.

What was that called again? Togetherness it was called. I just remembered that with the help of hitting stop and Googling it and going to her Wikipedia page. I don't do Facebook hardly at all. I don't do Facebook hardly at all. I've pulled away from Twitter because I think it infringes and annihilates our capacity to process as opposed to just react. Either anonymously or with a silly name or with a series of numbers or a combination of them. No process.

You got to process. You got to source. You got a way and balance and think things through don't just like god here's here's some stuff oh god fuck it here here take a little of this oh you know bad oh here's some of that oh i mean that's good but you know those reactions aren't necessarily bad reactions but but let them sink in. Where did it come from? Why are you feeling the way you are? What does it mean?

And how does it help you or others? There is an interesting question. How about that one? How does it help me or others? Maybe both at the same time. Huh? How does it? Before I forget, there are some tickets for some of my shows coming up.

I'm in Portland, Oregon at the Aladdin tomorrow and Saturday. We added a second show Saturday. There are a few tickets left. On April 27th at the Pabst Theater in Milwaukee, there are a few tickets left. At the Orpheum in Madison, Wisconsin. I believe there are a few tickets left. That's on April 28th, April 29th, two shows at the Pantages. I'll be shooting a Netflix special that I think I'm ready for. I'm pretty sure I'm not as freaked out as I usually am, which I don't know is if that's good. I have a full beard for a thing, but now it's going to be also for my

special, I guess. and my hair is really long and i've gotten to that point where i'm afraid to cut it because i don't know if it'll look stupid or not and the woman that cuts my hair is working on a movie so i'm going to be hairy and pretty ready for my netflix taping in minneapolis the miriam theater in philly on may 27th and the warner theater in washington dc on may 13th and also folks Theater in Washington, D.C. on May 13th. And also, folks, listen to me. Listen to me. This is general.

This is a general advice. When you go to buy tickets to an event, don't just Google the name of the person or the thing you want to see and tickets because you will be taken immediately to a scalper site. Go to the venue site and get linked through the appropriate ticket sale mechanism i get a lot of emails from people saying to me like hey man two thousand dollars for tickets to your show in portland's a little crazy and i'm like what the fuck are you talking about go to the venue site get the appropriate link for tickets don't be duped by scalpers and think that that's what

i'm pricing my shows at come on man i'm a 30 to 40 ticket folks all right and i and i try to keep it that way okay you know when i talk about like my tour or whatever my day-to-day or you know the the process of um our country slowly swirling down a sewer grate uh you know on some days depends the level of panic but but it makes me realize like you know when i say it's my last tour or whatever, I think what I might need is a little time off, a little time to have a life other than just touring and doing this. You know, how many times, and I don't do it very often, I mean, what have I been doing lately? Well, we went out to dinner with another couple the other night for the second time in three years. I just work and work and work and it becomes very small i need to get out i need to i need to do some adventuring or or at the very least some

just some fun stuff something you know what i mean need a break is that is that wrong these are luxury problems whatever i got new boots and i'm good seriously i am fucking good and i'm i'm back in the boots because i love jules weather from vancouver what i told you about them they fucking rushed them and they sent them and they put so much love and attention into these fucking chelsea boots they sent me like you get a box of fresh boots with that fresh weather smell and they send it with a little shoe horn and some boot cream and i took them out of the box and i'm like oh my god do i want to have them mounted or do i want to put them on my feet and they measured my feet precisely and they were into making these boots and they sent them and holy shit they're they're so good they're so

like they're so good and i you know i don't deserve it i don't deserve this treatment but i'll take it i would i would have bought the boots but i'll take them i just i don't guess i should sleep in them which i did last night but you know that's the nature of new boots sometimes it's the little things on your feet that make life good so w kamau bell uh is somebody that i've known a long time and that i knew in san francisco when he was a just a youngster doing the comedy at the beginning of things i was an oldster uh enjoying his uh his work and his friendship and we've had a you know we don't talk to each other a lot but uh after talking to him today i realized that we're kind of important to each other and it made me happy he's got a new book coming out the awkward thoughts of w kamau bell

uh that that's actually out on the 2nd of may his emmy nominated cnn show united shades of america is launching its second season on april 30th and he and harry kondabolu who i haven't talked to in a while just relaunched their popular podcast politically reactive and he's here he stopped by and it was great to see him and i like to i talk about, you know, real stuff. Stuff that requires engagement, processing, thoughtful interaction, challenge, that kind of stuff. Human stuff. Talking about things that impact all our lives. Things that seem to be tricky for some people to talk about.

I'm always happy to have those conversations and this ended up being one of them. So this is me and Kamau Bell. Are you self-employed? Don't think you need business insurance? Think again. Business insurance from Zensurance is a no-brainer for every business owner because it provides peace of mind. A lot can go wrong. A fire, cyber attack, stolen equipment, or an unhappy customer suing you. That's why you need insurance. Don't let the, I'm too small for this mindset, hold you back from protecting yourself. Zensurance

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FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Fucking. Fucking. Fucking. So, Kamau, it's been a while. It has been a while.

Last time I was here, I was super, I had just gone through a hard thing. And so when I came here, I was not. A hard thing? I don't remember. Oh, that's right. Was it the show? The show hadn't been canceled, but I just had a meeting with FX. It wasn't looking good. Yeah.

With FX, where it was like, I thought we were going to, it was between the first and the second season. Yeah. And I went to FX. I thought we were going to like celebrate the success of the first season. Yeah. But it was like, it was to indict me for the lack of things for the, like there was like a really like, it was like I had called myself into the principal's office.

So I showed up here like. Well, the thing is, is like, you know, I felt bad about it that that show didn't find its footing and that you were having a hard time finding your footing. And I was hoping the best. Yeah, I could tell you were like, you had a feeling of like, good luck with that. Well, yeah, but no, it's like it's a hard thing, you know, to be, you know, to be given a big opportunity and to honor yourself. But, you know, not, you know not quite find your footing in that particular format. And I knew you just had a kid, and I knew you were a good guy and a smart guy, and your

heart was in the right place. And for about an hour, I felt bad. Yeah, no, it was clear. I thought I sort of had this idea. I'm going to LA. I'll meet with FX. I'll go do Mark's show. It's going to be.

And I was like, oh, it's really about how it's not working out but what what did shift in outside of just the immediate responsibility of having kids you know not sleeping on the floor and eating cat food yeah yeah i mean i i think the failure of totally biased really sort of challenged me because i thought when that got canceled like i think my career might be over i legitimately thought it's done and then sort of trying to figure out if we were going to stay in New York. But the big shift was like moving back to the Bay Area. Right. And sort of choosing to go, okay, whatever career I'm going to have in show business, I'm going to have to do it from the Bay Area.

Because I can't, I'm not moving to LA. I can't live in New York. My wife was pregnant with our second kid. We're not doing this here. Yeah. So it was like making a choice to sort of really choose my family and my life over show biz and letting showiz fit around that. And then how did the current show evolve?

I mean, like how long of a time was it? Because like I also was in the position of, you know, people would project personality onto you. Like, you know, what they do is they'd hedge you in. It's like, oh, you're the edgy black guy. You're the smart black guy. With me, it's like he's the cranky angry jew yeah but really what they didn't know is sort of like i'm not making a choice about this exactly this is not this is not a persona no when i'm at cnn it's funny to be around the anchors like they like they are putting out they're playing characters a

lot of them and they'd have a persona and i feel broadcasters yeah broadcast there's they're all and i mean they do it well like Some of them are very natural at it, but it's funny to be like, I don't really have that. I'm still trying to figure out what my character is when I sit in those places. Well, that's the thing. And I think what happened with the new show

is that you were able to, by engaging with other people and getting out in the world, people like you and I, and I will draw that comparison because my success came from conversations, is, that's what we're about. You know, we're, you know, we're, we're funny comics, but, you know, as thinkers and as people that make sense of things, if we're engaging, it's better for everybody. That's true.

I don't, yes, I should not be looking into a camera telling you about the news, as I learned, and I'll never be doing that again. Yeah, for me, it was like the show came out of, after the Totally Bias got canceled, I thought my career was over, and then my manager and agent were like, people want to take some meetings with you, and they were all sort of news outlets, which I was surprised by. And CNN had been pitched an idea for a show at that point called Black Man, White America, for a black guy going around America to white places. That seems like a sort of separatist title. Well, yeah, it is.

It is. And I was like, I would, is it the 1990s? Am I on MTV? So I was like, I don't want to do that. So I said, I would want to go to lots of places other than white places. Right. But the pilot was really what brought it home was the pilot was with the Ku Klux Klan, which For the United Shades of America.

Yeah, for United Shades of America. Like we changed it. They changed the title United Shades of America and we shot the pilot and I sort of was like okay I'm gonna move back to Berkeley I'm gonna go and I had another choice to get a job like I'm sort of a day job yeah ish thing and I was like but it would have kept me in New York and I was like okay even though that would have paid more at the moment I have to go all in on this pilot because I'll be able to live in the Bay Area so I did well and it worked out yeah I mean it's it has worked out far better than anything else in my career

and it's and it feels like a thing that if if second season goes i think we'll be here for a minute and it's uh and do you find that you you're getting an audience we are getting an audience i have the youngest audience on cnn which is 67 no i'm just i'm just kidding uh but i do i draw on an audience to cnn who isn't normally watching cnn and i think it's great they love that it's great for me to be at cnn because i'm not really competing against other shows or there's not other a bunch of shows there it's me bourdain lisa ling there's like a handful of people well i i i find that um these kind of uh that you know if it's what what you're doing is, you know, field work, but also the sort of town hall format is an appropriate use of media and necessary. Because what I was going to tell

you in the kitchen, you know, because I try to wrap my brain around this, that, you know, the polarization now is so extreme that, you know, people you and I know who are co-workers and friends who we've known all our lives or known a long time are Republicans or think differently than us. There's even in those kind of dynamics, there's a reluctance to talk about it, a hostility that wasn't there before, and an empowered narrow-mindedness

that I don't think is necessarily the real spirit of those people. No, I think Trump has brought something out of a lot of people, if we can name names. And there are comics that I knew that I guess I'm friends with, I still don't know, where it's like you see, and it's really about a lot of times it's the social media stuff you see from people. Right that's you're that guy you're you're saying that but we've had conversations you know so it's really brought a side out of people and

emboldened some people who i think had some ideas that they weren't sharing before the other a group of people that yeah i think we're talking about in terms of people we know, there are a tremendous amount of people that even given the situation today are relatively detached from day-to-day political goings-on, that once the election is over, they're like, all right, well, that's done. My guy won. And they're living their lives and checking into the news. And whether it's propaganda news or not propaganda news, it goes goes on both sides but the other side has a very strong propaganda presence yes yes yeah but uh but you know those are you know i think mostly the people we're talking about

and some of this stuff outside of the you know your life trajectory in the book that you know is your mission in life is how to bring people together and how do we you know you know transcend these awkward moments into proactive moments yeah and how and how do we, you know, transcend these awkward moments into proactive moments. Yeah. And how do we not think that? I mean, the book is called The Awkward Thoughts of W. Kamau Bell. Yes, yes, yes. So what was the incentive like as a framework for that when you started writing the book? Where does that go back to for you?

Where does that go back to for you? For me, learning that the feeling of, on some level, as an only child who moved around the country a lot, who was like a tall black dude who didn't know how to play basketball, I felt awkward all my life. I've always felt a little bit like, who didn't listen to hip hop,

who didn't, you know, I felt awkward as a sense of my whole- You didn't play along. I didn't, I just didn't, I didn't even know I was supposed to play along. I thought, I was an only child in my bedroom watching late night comedy. I was like, this is what we do, right? This is what black people do. They stay

up late and watch Saturday Night Live. And so I've always felt awkward. And I think we're taught to run away from that feeling. And I think there's nothing more profound than sitting in awkwardness and moving through it. Thank God. It's my life's journey. Exactly. Again, learning from the best. And so for me, the book is about moments in my life where moving through that awkwardness has led me to what I think to better decisions and to sort of go

and not to just sit and go, I guess this is just what it is. I mean, even the conversation with you in the book is about me going like, there's a version of me that would have been like,

I guess I just stay where I'm at with this thing even though it doesn't feel right. And it was awkward to call you because I was like, I don't even know if I know him like this. Of course you do.

Yeah, well, I appreciate that. And you answered and we talked and that's what I talk about in the book. Like moving through that moment of like, instead of just going, I don't even know if I know him like this. Of course you do. Yeah, well, I appreciate that. And you answered, and we talked, and that's what I talk about in the book. Like, moving through that moment of, like, instead of just going, I don't know him like that, and this thing is probably going to work out better, got me to a better place in my life and career. Well, yeah, but that awkwardness is weird, because, you know, I have it too,

but I track it to, you know, it's also the, it's, I don't know what your relationship with your father was. Imagine it's in the book. But, you know, the detachment emotionally yeah what you know really set me it made me uncomfortable because it disabled my ability to really have a complete sense of self yeah so with that craving and with that need you know my need to connect to relieve that awkwardness and to almost at different times in my life to almost become different people or to use other people to define me yeah uh you know it that evolved into what i do you know in a good way but for a lot of time like looking back on it i don't have a lot

of regrets but it was not that i was not in the best place well and for me i think that i sort of i'm actually my dad was like when are you gonna send me the book i'm like maybe never uh i mean there's a lot i talk about my dad in good ways in the book but there's also some painful stuff that like this is the hard part about writing some things that are memoirish is that you go this is not my story to tell but i need to tell a version of it so i have to figure out which version i'm going to tell there's that moment where you're like well this is my life yeah as well and i felt like i was pretty realistic you know i i think some of it might have been unnecessary yes but i i i refused to admit that it was spiteful well that's i was trying to avoid the unnecessary part because i like i think we're in a different relation with our dads at this point i have two kids i want my

kids to know my dad yeah me and my dad actually have a better relationship now our relationship gets better the older i get like a lot of the book is about how i didn't grow up with my dad around but he was in my life but he wasn't like a so i was like constantly on the search for surrogate fathers too that's it yeah so that's it there and a lot of them came through comedy and through other media sources and you know so yeah that's weird in comedy you get the surrogate father you get the the sort of kindred spirit and then you get the the sort of trying relationship with the crowd yes exactly all covered it's all yeah you get to reenact your family dysfunction through your career every night on stage two shows friday two shows saturday drag people through it yeah and so for me like i think

that's the part about the book that's hard is when i talk about how like i felt like there's times where my dad wasn't there for me or didn't really understand me you know and and on some level like i said the older i get the better it gets and also having kids will help smooth over a lot of the sins like so if my dad doesn't like the book i'll just take my kids out there for vacation so what you know as you evolve through the childhood thing what is the journey as you know kamau the adult with children you know a public profile that uh is uh provocative you know, not confrontational, but proactive. I mean, what did you find going through your life?

How did your agenda reveal itself? I mean, for me, a lot of it, a lot of the book, Chris Rock used to say I sort of, I would rep the Bay Area harder than rappers rep Brooklyn. Like the Bay Area is a big thing for me. That's why I think I moved back there like I've through the Bay Area not even the Bay Area comedy scene but people I met in the Bay Area like people help broaden my perspective and there's a section of the book where I talk about one of my best friends well it was built for that yeah yeah that's why the Bay Area was invented I don't know if it's doing that anymore

but I think it was certainly that's what it was there for and I think the Bay Area has to fight to get that back and I talk about that in the book too that you know for me it was there for. And I think the Bay Area has to fight to get that back. And I talk about that in the book, too. That, you know, for me, it was like sort of finding yourself in rooms where you're like, what is that person doing? Who is that? What? I don't. And then sort of sitting in there and sort of talking to people. That helped broaden my perspective in a way.

And also helped me lead down the path of like, okay, I'm not going to make it in show business by going to the punchline and doing seven minutes every Sunday night. Right. Like, that's not. And I'm not going to make it by moving to LA. I just knew that wasn't going to happen punchline and doing seven minutes every Sunday night. Right. Like, that's not – and I'm not going to make it by moving to L.A. I just knew that wasn't going to happen in New York. So, for me, it was, like, the freedom to sort of pursue my own path. And then, therefore, that when Totally Biased got canceled,

there was a gut check. I got a kid and a kid on the way. I'm living in an apartment that costs $7,000 a month. Like, you know, like, I don't know how to do this, but I guess I should stay in New York. Yeah. But really sort of going, like, trusting know, like, I don't know how to do this, but I guess I should stay in New York. Yeah. But really sort of going, like, trusting that, like, that what I had learned in the Bay Area is if I pursued my own path, it was going to work out to some level. I didn't know what was going to work out, but really trusting that what I had learned in the Bay Area is like, no, just do your own thing, man.

Yeah. Do your own thing. And then you went back to, well, you know, the history of that place intellectually and on a civil rights rights uh sort of the the big thinkers yeah of of social justice you know the sort of there was a the environment from even you know before the 60s yeah you know was a a a sort of like embracing weirdness and controversy and progress yeah and i moved there because i social progress i've read books about the Bay Area from a comedy scene perspective that that's where a lot of comics went to find their voice. Or a lot of comics sort of opened up. That's why I went there.

Yeah, I was like, I talk about that too. Like the idea that like, you know, whether it's like, you know, that's where Lenny Bruce gets arrested. That's where, you know, there's Robin. Well, I think there was like, the one thing that I knew. Richard Pryor in Berkeley. Right, when he went through his thing. Yeah, yeah. He started doing

experimental theater yeah yeah with the Panthers exactly so the the one thing I knew is that it was very it was not confined to punchlines that you know there was this sort of like take it out there yeah you know what I mean go ahead push it yeah take it out there but I think it's probably it was probably it's probably only gotten back to that now. When I got there in 97, things had sort of, the boom had died. There weren't a lot of, the alt rooms weren't really there. And it really was like, it's funny, we would sit in the back of the punchline on a Sunday night and be like, what makes this different than, you know, like Dayton, Ohio on some nights, you know what I mean?

And so I think that now the Bay Area, I think, has come back around. But for me, it was like, I had to leave the clubs to sort of find that thing you talked about. It was like, take it out there. Yeah, well, I mean, I saw that show, the first one-man show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw it back around. But for me, it was like I had to leave the clubs to sort of find that thing you talked about. It's like, take it out there. Yeah, well, I mean, I saw that show, the first one-man show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw it in Oakland. Yes, that's right.

Well, Berkeley. The border, but yes. Right, and I think your mom's was there. Yeah, that's right. I met your mom. Yeah, no, I was very, that was a very big night for me when you came out. Yeah. I was like, I got to do this thing.

It was great. Yeah, like I said, I don't know. We haven't talked about this a lot, but I've been a fan of yours since way before i knew you well i think we're very we're very similar in our approach to to stand up and to thinking in a lot of ways you know that you know we you know the journey has been to find ourselves not to get away from it yes yeah absolutely i think that's that on some level i was like if i find myself but i'm not funny well that's just gonna be what it is. Well, yeah, believe me, I'm in my garage.

Yeah, exactly. It sort of came to that, sort of like, I got more to offer than me wrestling over jarring jokes and poetic turns of phrase. Yes. And this is where I found it. And I did a couple of one-man shows. But the problem is, is that you're always sort of judging yourself against the success of other ones.

Yes. And then you realize, well, those ones are like, it's too cute. You know, it's like, and there's no, because the thing about awkward moments is people like you and I is that it's always going to be awkward. Yes. Like, you know, just the fact that, you know, we're, we're, we're painfully, you know, trying to be present because whether we know it or not, that was our journey. So what I say in general is that I'm not everyone's idea of a night out. Yeah. No, yes. I've always respected that too.

I'm just not for everybody. And it took me a while to get there. But generally, the people that succeed in a big way are most people's idea of entertainment. Yeah. I write in the book about that like it's weird to me that me and kevin hart have the same job description and he's great but it's just like that we're sort of like both this thing called comedian well yeah and and that's like that that is the sort of strange difference is that i don't know that i ever set out to be an entertainer

i think that i saw a stand-up as some you know kind of like uh it was like if you you could do whatever you want up there as long as you learn what your territory is and who you are up there and it was somehow uh the platform to find my truth you know as a creative person what am i gonna do am i gonna write poetry am i gonna take pictures am i gonna make a painting am i gonna write a movie no because that stuff it takes time and it involves lots of other people yeah and you got to work for months exactly and you don't get immediate response exactly i can write a thing down right now and go up tonight and go like yeah i did it yeah i worked today i put it as a good i got one joke out of this i mean i feel this i feel the same way that like i'm doing a lot of things now where

i'm like the book i mean even the book that i wrote required a lot of people like an editor and a literary agent at this age though like i found at some point i was sort of like this is all right i like working with people and especially people i respect and you know when you get into bigger ensembles but either as an actor or as a you know in a production capacity you're like this is awesome well i think that's the key thing people you respect and i in the book i talk about this the part of the problem with totally bias was that there was there were ghosts in the machine and people that i was like you're we're not doing the same thing right and even with the first season united shades we we changed the the a lot of the production staff because i was like these people aren't doing the thing i want so i i've learned now that if i

can't i have to be prepared to walk away if it's not the right situation and that that insert right you get to a certain point where you're like you got to say no and if you do it properly yeah you know you know there will be feelings hurt but you know it's the nature of the game i mean i remember sometimes i feel like you have to like i said to my wife one time oh i have to make a phone call i have to have a diva tantrum like i have to choose to have a tantrum right now for this person to hear me because they haven't heard me in their way like i have to sort of like all right here we go like in a way that i'm like i don't want to do it this way but you aren't hearing me talking it's much it's much more uh it's it's better but less uh

the results are worse when it's just uh you know it happens all of a sudden yes i like it's good when you can use it like a chess move let me pull my queen out like instead of like just like i can't control my feelings yeah losing your shit i don i'm the other person think that's happening if you know now i'm under control right right i can pull back anytime so now in doing you know uh you know totally biased and then now this new show which i think is part of the same arc i think you're always been trying to do the same thing and then now all of a sudden having a family now how how has that affected your thoughts uh you know about you know humanity culture race i mean what because that's a big deal and i don't have that experience and you're in a biracial situation i'm in i'm in a an interracial situation and uh yeah i think

that's how you say when it's relationship oh no your kids are biracial well we call them mixed race now that's the new term so i'm an old? I'm always here to teach you the new term. It's mixed race. Am I an old man? Did I say something bad? No, you did like the thing where it's like colored instead of Negro. No, I did not. I'm saying like 1960, like when it was like, no, we're Negro now.

Oh, yeah. So it's mixed race? It's mixed race for people who are- And people who are- Because it sort of requires you could be more than just biracial. It is more inclusive. I'm sure you know. We're all mixed race okay be careful slow down sir slow down don't get ahead of me this is the problem problem with white guys uh all right yeah no so my daughters are mixed race yeah you

know and i think the big thing is teaching them what my oldest daughter, who's five and a half, at some point, books is a big way to do it. You always have books that are just kids' books, and you have books that are about mixed race families, which thankfully we can buy books about right now. Then learning that my daughter knows she's black. She knows she's half mom and half dad, but she knows that that makes her black. We haven't explained the political implications of that or why that is, but she knows that she is a black person. She is white and black, but she knows that means she's black because that's how America works. My daughter, at one point, we were talking about skin colors.

She was like three years old. She looked at me and she goes, Dad's chocolate colored, I'm peanut butter colored, and Mama's oatmeal colored is what she said. How did Mom feel about that? That's not a good, no, nobody likes oatmeal. She wasn't real excited about it. And I can let my daughter grow up thinking she's peanut butter yeah but then i'm also she's going to be in a really bad situation at some point no i'm not black i'm peanut butter that's not whether it's black or white people that's

not going to work out for you so i think there's a thing about what you define yourself as and how the world sees you as a person of color it It's important to know how the world sees you. Cause it's literally, it's about survival at some point. Yeah. You can't be surprised when a cop pulls you over. Don't you know that my dad is technically that I'm only half. Right.

That's not, I'm not going to, not going to play. She's, but because she's mixed race, I say she's black and mixed race. She's both those things. Right.

Yeah. So in, in, in terms of your evolution as a, as a human, how, how, how has that affected the way you interact with other people? What do you mean? In terms of the conversations you have.

I mean, I guess it's, you know, that those things intellectually you always knew. that the quality of life or the struggles or obstacles that people are going to come in contact with, that you have these young kids who are mixed race, that they have been, there are some things that are going to happen. Yes, yeah. And because of that. Yeah. So when you have conversations with people who are,

and that's the fucked up thing is that, you know, most white people. And I would imagine some black people, you know, given that situation are always going to be like, well, you know,

you did it to yourself. Yes. I've heard that. Like, yes, I've heard the, anything I, any problem I have is because I'm married to a white woman.

Yeah. Like, well, that's what you get for marrying a white girl. From black people. Yeah, from black people. Yeah, absolutely. That's more of a black way of saying it. Right, right, right.

Yeah, that's more of a, like, married that white girl. Yeah. And how do you respond to that? It's funny. Once you have kids, it really becomes easier to let a lot of shit go like that. Like, I'm just like, first of all, you're dead to me now. I don't deal with this as a topic of discussion. I'm not going to engage with you about my family right like having kids it's like once you know there's

there's like three people that i need to be concerned with whether or not they live like on a daily basis right and so people when they try they're trying to bait me when they say that and i'm just like yeah that's what i get from marrying a white girl like i'm not going to engage with you in that discussion because it's ridiculous well well yeah because then you can go it's let's just talk about your wife for a second exactly how's that going i don't know yeah i'm not i don't understand like it's i'm it's a way it's when people do that it's a way of go oh don't talk to you again okay i got it yeah as opposed to just sort of like yeah being married's hard yeah exactly having kids is hard yeah but yeah that's the having two kids five and two is so hard.

I don't have time to take on extra hardships that are- Yeah, pressure from the community. And I mean, I've gotten it in the Bay Area, because there are, even though the Bay Area is so open and blah, blah, blah, there's people there who, especially a black guy who ostensibly is talking about race and racism a lot, you go, well, how are you going to talk about all that and be married to a white woman? Yeah. Because I'm a person?

Yeah, yeah. Because I'm a human and that's how this works love is a funny thing love is a funny thing and i don't feel any need to explain why i think you could get to like a really why are you attracted to this person but i don't expect anybody else to do that yeah i'm expecting by yeah good luck you know color lines are fucked up but I don't feel bad about the fact that I'm black. Like, I'm not like, I wish I was white. No, no, no. But I mean, but that there is a place, you know, in the heart and in the mind where you can, you know, transcend color lines.

You know, and that is ultimately the goal, right? Of in on some level in terms of being humane and human that that that at some point it should not be the difference i mean i guess i think i get the word transcend is one of those words i think is a problem too because like for example when prince died is there another word yeah we can figure it out maybe we'll invent it today okay uh but like because when prince died people like he transcended race it's like why are you taking that away from him like he was a black dude like why we don't like and i tweeted nobody said david bowie transcended race you I was like, why are you taking that away from him? Like he was a black dude. Like why we don't like, and I tweeted,

nobody said David Bowie transcended race. You know what I mean? Like, I think that like, there's a thing about like wanting to move beyond that. They should just say he was a black guy that everyone likes. Exactly. That's,

and that's what they're saying. That black guy was all right with everybody, you know, can't argue with that black guy. And I think that like, that's what we want to talk about. Like, these are differences that exist.

I'm happy with the fact that I am who i am i want to be able to talk about it and i certainly don't like the liberal perspective of like as a black man no don't diminish yourself or don't call yourself black can't just be a human no it's not we're not there yet yeah and i don't know that we want to get there yeah well yeah well that's that's sort of my question because there it wasn't a question but like you know i'm i'm sort of my question because there, it wasn't a question, but like, you know, I'm, I'm sort of like being, uh, uh, sort of,

uh, very mindful of my words. So my, my, my, my, my, my,

my dubious sense of race may be missed, uh, understood, but, um, I know one of my jobs is black friend. I'm okay with that. No,

but I don't, I honestly don't think of it that way, but I like to have these conversations cause I don't have them and you can't have two white guys speculating i mean we do that all the time on cable news but yes yes about race yeah yeah but but the the weird thing is is that it not unlike any ethnic group hang on as i sat up straighter in my chair hold on wait a second that there there is a lot about you know cultural black identity that that is beautiful in the same way with jewish or or you know in the way that the the gay community defined themselves in in the 60s and 70s that it's it was important for the strength of the people involved to have a cultural identity.

Yes. And that should be respected. And it is different. And there's nothing wrong with that. No, I would imagine there's times when you realize that you're speaking as a Jewish person versus when you're speaking as Marx. I try to hide it all the time that people see it no matter what. That's pretty, yeah.

You're not doing a good job at all. But there's also part of times you feel like you're speaking as a white guy, that you get to sort of, that there's a sort of, whereas the thing was with people of color we're often sort of just the color right like you get to sort of go at or maybe most of the time you think yourself as mark but as a person of color i think the thing that i've learned in the book is like the writing the book down put some words is like i have to be very careful about what i'm talking for myself when i'm talking for black people because one thing i learned from the first season of the show one thing you learned from talking for black people

is that they don't know. Like I would say, I would make really stupid jokes about, well, black people, we all like salt. And there'd be black people like, why you gotta say we all like... Now, I can argue the fact that, well, you know, high blood pressure. But I was like, yeah, you're right. I should make that joke about I like salt. I think that it's easy

for me to fall into those tropes too. So the second season, I think I did a lot better job of owning what was me and what I think that it's easy for me to fall into those tropes too. So the second season, I think I did a much better job of owning what was me and what I think specifically was my people. It's interesting because those tropes, you know,

like it's sort of the weird thing about community stereotyping within the community where that, you know, then it's funny. But, you know, but then, you know,

and that's a whole thing. Now it's on CNN. Right. I think if I'd done it on BET, there might be a different reaction. Right, but now it's sort of like, why you know, and that's an old thing. Now when it's on CNN, I think if I'd done it on BET, there might be a different reaction. Right, but now it's sort of like, why you got to tell them our secrets? Yeah, or why you got to make white people once again think we're monolithic?

Yeah, well, I used to have that horrible problem with like Jackie Mason and these things sort of like, you know, when he'd do jokes like, you know, all Jews just want to sit down. It's like, what are you talking about? That doesn't even make sense. Exactly that and it gets to the point like i mean i think bernie mack is one of the greatest of all time and i remember he had a joke that was like when white people go to break they leave and come back when black will go to break we take a break and that

was i mean first of all it's hilarious the way he said it i was like well we gotta be taking a break i come back in 15 minutes. But I think that some of that stuff, it's the nature of comedy. It's the nature of comedy, but also it does reinforce things for white people in this particular situation. And Bernie Mac was doing it all these things of comedy too. And because of that, I'd like to make it known that you came early today. I did come early today. I was very early today yes I do think some of my job is to actually physically like bus stereotypes

like what I hear all the time is like oh you were so much nicer than I expected yeah cuz I was six foot four 250 pound black guy I get part of my jobs be like hey everybody how's it going you know sort of like let people part of my job on the show especially when we go to man you know to sort of like let people part of my job on the show especially when we go to like you know the white privilege conference with richard spencer or appalachia it's just sort of be a different what they think of black i know what their black guy is in their head and to sort of actively not be that black guy so we can have a real conversation right right so all they can leave if they have any hate in them at that time the moment you

finish your conversation is the the worst it could be like he's a smart one exactly and i mean that means that i can't walk in in a bad mood like i can't walk in and this is where you don't get to be a person i can't walk in like i'm having a little bit of bad news because like it's black people always in a bad way yeah anger wait is it us yeah exactly mad at the white man yeah well that's a given oh yeah but um so what do you want people to walk away with i mean what what's the journey where did it where did it land i i think i mean it's funny that this book was was sort of pitched and written started to be worked on before the election happened but i think that one thing the election has proven and it's because it's not about the right it's about right america is in desperate need of confronting its history of oppression and hatred.

And there's no, like, Donald Trump is just the pimple that rises to the surface. Well, now it's like, if anything that I've been starting to realize lately is that, well, it's all out in the open now. You know? Yeah. But for some people, it's still not out in the open. They still sort of want it to be okay. They're still like, well, it'll probably. I have friends who are like, well, he's as bad as any Republican president. It's just the same sort of want it to be okay they say like well it'll probably i have friends who are like well he's as bad as every as any republican president it's just the same sort of

playbook it's being and i and my thing is like we have to stop wanting to settle into okay and actually have the conversation and and a lot of that is with white people we've talked about this last time i was on here that white people a lot were like shocked by the election a lot of like white people on the left it was like stop being shocked and start getting engaged in the conversation well yeah i mean that well that's it because i've been doing this bit on stage when people are like by the election. A lot of white people on the left. It was like, stop being shocked and start getting engaged in the conversation. Well, yeah. That's it, because I've been doing this bit on stage when people are like, how did this happen? And you go like, what have you been doing for the last

eight years? Working on me. That's hilarious. Exactly. That's exactly the thing. It's the bubble that we hear about, and I think that this has popped the bubble, but I don't want people to sort of, people want to construct their own bubble again quickly. Like they just want it to be okay.

Well, I think that was one of the downfalls of Obama is was there was sort of like, we did it. Yeah. We did it. We got one in. Yeah. No, I haven't worked on the bit yet, but I was writing a bit about the idea of

if you were able to tell Obama on the first day he was in office, like, just so you know, the president is donald trump yeah i feel like he would have changed the entire way he was president like i feel like if he had known that that was coming that he sort of thought i think he sort of really had a lot of he really trusted america in a way that proved to be i think wrong and that he just thought well i'm going to do so much good work i will just hand the baton to the next person but like i i do like you know every other day have have some hope for the country i i mean it you know it has you know what they say sort of sardonically you know about getting woke you know you know we're woke we're woke we're hashtag woke yeah and now you know we hashtag

stay woke now we have to try not to, you know, go to sleep out of sadness and depression and frustration. Or exhaustion. Exhaustion. Out of just like, I was woke all day long yesterday. It was horrible. I had to turn off my computer. I've been woke since January 20th.

I don't know how I need to get some sleep. Yeah. I think that's the biggest thing is not being exhausted by the nonsense. Yeah. Not sort of getting caught up in the daily. Like, you know, I stopped, I sort of stopped paying attention to all the news alerts on my phone at some point because, like, you can't.

Most of this is nonsense. You have to really make sure you focus on the things that actually mean something and actually are about real things. I mean, it's fun. It's really fun to get caught up in. Is that the word? I'm saying it's fun to get caught up

in, like, Sean Spicer nonsense, but it's not necessarily... I thought you it all terrifying. I mean, I do. I definitely, I mean, like I said, a lot of this goes back to being a dad. I definitely look at my kids like, okay, we got it. That's sort of the motivation and also the scary thing. I got it.

It's got to be better than this for them. Right. You know, I can't pass the baton. Good luck. Trump's still president, even though you're 20. And you know what i didn't realize fully and you know the first two months of this presidency were were you know i you know i was like i i gotta get out you know and it's a childish reaction yeah you know but but it was understandable right it's a traumatic event fight or flight but you right and but you

know you realize how big the country is but also the one thing I didn't really realize was just how terrified and angry and completely disoriented a large number of people were with the Obama presidency. Like that on a day-to-day basis, they were like, I can't believe this is happening. on a day-to-day basis, they were like, I can't believe this is happening. Yeah. And, you know, it's hard to be empathetic and to see it as, like, you know, the backlash, you know, coming from that place. But there were a lot of people.

I don't know, I don't think there were a majority, but there were a lot of people that were like, for whatever reason. It's more than many people in this country expected, but some of us it's like yeah yeah yeah i mean you know yeah that you know i mean it's a testament to obama that he got through it not lived through it but actually got through it i mean to the fact that he had to spend like several months like a lot of time in his presidency was spent talking about whether or not he was born in this country like that's crazy and i think a lot of people sort of let that stuff go but i'm like every person i know is like that's

an indicator of what's going on in this country that that wasn't a fringe issue that bubbled up to the to the halls of congress and the halls of the senate yeah whether or not this guy is born here and and and for me it's like the for a lot that's why i feel like the biggest group effect it's like white women were like but i thought we were all in the same, you know, I thought, you know, woke white women like my wife and, and then like white people who white people of all genders who were like, I had no idea it was this bad. Yeah. And I feel like those are the people that we need to keep awake because those people

are like, I'd really like to just start working on me again. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. And I think there was something within that, my sense of, you know, the black community in reaction to this is sort of like,

yeah, we knew that this was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, you know, like, let's just see how it plays out. Let's not get too loud yet. Well, I think the thing that I hear that a lot of the people I talk to, like I'm friendly with Alicia Garza, who's one of the founders of Black Lives Matter. And she regularly talks about the fact we can't judge these people who just woke up today.

We have to invite them in. Yeah. Like it's really easy to be like, oh, now you're woke. Oh, now you want to go. Now you like to march. Yeah. Oh, now you want to go to D.C. We've been going to D.C. for a long time.

But I think that's always been the way it's been at these junctures. I don't think that in the 50s that there was just a torrent, a never-ending wave of white people going down south to march. I do think there was plenty of people who were good-hearted that were like, I don't know,

it looks pretty bad on TV. Well, no, I think that's true, but I think the thing we have to do, and I think Martin Luther King did a good job of this, and not that I'm trying to use him the way everybody uses him, but the idea of like you have to just invite them in and work on their faults later. Like you can't go before we let you join the movement. I think there's a lot of this right now. You have to do these things or we need you to do these things.

It's like, no, no, come in here. Come into the room. We all need to build the coalition, and we'll fix you later. We've suspended the black test. We've suspended the black test. We've suspended the woke test. The woke test, yes. Because a lot of different groups need to suspend. We have to suspend the woke test and sort of do on-the-job training of wokeness.

Oh, I'm very happy for you, and congrats on the book, and I hope the show keeps going, and I always like to see you, man. Yeah, and again, Mark, thank you for being a guiding force. And also, I can look in your face and tell how I'm doing. So it feels like I'm doing okay today. You are, man. And keep it up. Thank you.

That was nice to see Kamau. As I mentioned, the book is called Awkward Thoughts. The Awkward Thoughts of W. Kamau Bell, and his show is United Shades of America. The podcast is politically reactive. A lot of stuff going on. So that was good. That was fun.

It was engaging, and I learned things, and I said some things almost wrong. How is that not a great time? It's okay to be wrong. Tolerance is important to be wrong tolerance is important tolerance is important tolerance is important amanda pete is somebody who i've uh you know i i like her and i like her acting and i've liked it you know i have a weird sort of um the things i've

seen of hers that where i've really remembered her have always been these uh smaller parts where she's you know not so nice but uh but man she was so funny in um togetherness and and this new show brock meyer sounds great and i'm i was just happy to talk to her and meet her i always felt like we would get along and i believe we did i feel like i was i was to talk to her and meet her. I always felt like we would get along. And I believe we did. I feel like I was trying to entertain her during this interview. And I think I might have achieved that. But you decide. Amanda Peet, charming, good actress, sharp.

I enjoy talking to her. She's currently on the new show Brockmire, which airs Wednesday nights on IFC. We had Hank Azaria in here a little bit ago to talk about it. So this is me and Amanda Peet. So the baby's out. Yes, the baby's out. This is a big

dress. It's what we call a schmata. Yeah, I know what a schmata is. Yeah, okay, good. Yeah, I think I have a schmata salesman in my family back there somewhere. Back there? Yeah, I think my mother's boyfriend. In the shtetl? No, just the Lower East Side, New York-y.

Oh, okay. My mother's boyfriend still is in fabric. He's like in his 70s, he sells fabric. It's this very vague fabric. So where do you come from? New York City. Really? The whole time? Yeah time yeah well what do you mean the whole time well i mean you're like you're a new yorker born and bred kind of deal born and bred except for that my dad took a job in london when i was seven so i lived in england for four years yeah 1979 to 19 how old were you seven to eleven

Yeah. 1979 to 19. How old were you? Seven to 11. Yeah. So you remember it. Yes. And what was, what'd your dad do?

He was a lawyer, corporate lawyer. So not, you weren't too engaged with it and he was just a lawyer that did things? Yeah. Yeah. I sure wasn't too engaged in corporate law. I still don't understand what he does. But he's still around. That's good. Yeah, he's still around.

And your mom? And my mom is still around. And what does she do? She was a social worker. That's good. Yeah, he's still around. And your mom? And my mom is still around. And what does she do? She was a social worker. That seems important. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Were you engaged in that?

Did you find that impressive? Well, yeah, because she would come home and say, like, you know, a boy peed my name on the wall. Uh-huh. You know, at the Jewish Board of Children and Family Services. So I was like, tell me more. Yeah. I was like, oh, good idea.

Let me take some notes. How do you do that? Yeah. Boys are so lucky. Yeah. Do you have siblings? I have an older sister. What does she do?

She's a doctor. Oh, stable. Good. Well, I'll tell you this. I'm a little bit of a hypochondriac. I don't. I am too. I've gotten over it though a bit.

Yeah. So it's good to have the sister. Well, she's basically gotten to the point where she's like, if you fucking call me one more time, I'm going to blow a gasket. Really? She got to that point like 20 years ago. But I'm a hypochondriac. I had a terrible stomach flu. I was barfing for about 12 hours straight and recently

it was like in the last couple years and i didn't have one i called her eventually and was like i can't i can't i think there's something very wrong and she was like i can assure you there's nothing very wrong you're just you know freaking out and they talk a lot about like public health and how we go to the emergency room too much and how rich white people, you know, go to the doctor too much. And so I got in a taxi and I went to Cedars to the emergency room and I didn't tell her because she was like, just, you just have to wait it out. And, but I am a quitter. And so I, I got in a taxi and I went and the young doctor came in the room and said, and she looked down at the paper and said, are you Amanda Peet? And I was like, oh, yeah, really?

Really, lady? I'm fucking shitting and barfing my brains out. And you want like what? An autograph? You want to talk about which your favorite movie? And she was like, your sister was my teacher. I was a resident. And I was like, don't tell her I'm here.

That's which quick i was like you really have to promise me you're not going to tell her i'm here because she'll be so angry at me so yeah i don't like that waiting it out shit i've learned to do it my father was a doctor and i had a long history of being a hypochondriac it's i don't know i i don't know how to track it all the time but I try to weigh things out I've gotten better at that with blemishes and what not things that seem suspect in the mouth or on the skin if I bite the inside of my mouth

I don't automatically have to think hey that's mouth cancer if I'm just poking around in my mouth for no reason which I've pulled back from but I'm able to go I might have bitten my cheek, so let's just see if that goes away. Needless to say, though. How did you get better at it?

I tell a long story about what happened. It was an embarrassing urologist episode. But despite that, I did go to the doctor yesterday in somewhat of a panic so i find that um that it gets worse when i'm freaked out about other things was it like just trump like general anxiety or well there's well that's going on but like i had a skin thing right here and i shaved my neck i'm really this is really turned out to be my interview you know did you know I'm just growing this beard out for a roll and and but then like the next day not really putting together I saw

this like mole here that was all fucked up like didn't look good and it kind of had purple around it I'm like oh my god finally the bad thing has happened i have melanoma and gold so i called up thank god i have good health coverage i went in and as time went on i realized i might have hit it with the buzz razor and it was just a skin tag and it looked worse than it was but uh yeah so it was nothing yeah but she burned off a few other uh skin tags it's good stuff we talked about barfing and shitting i thought maybe i'd kind of ante up with the skin tags i'm really glad you did but that aside let's talk about the manhattan that amanda p grew up in what do you want to know well i mean like you, like you're like a real New York woman.

Yeah. So now both your folks Jewish? No, my dad is about as Jewish as... Not. I don't know where I was going with that. Almost a thing happened. Yeah. And my mom is, you know, really, really, really German Jew.

Yeah. Yeah. Which, what does that mean to you, German Jew? They had a Christmas tree. I had a couple Christmas trees, but I know what you're saying, yeah. But your dad not Jewish at all? Well, this was in the 50s, you know.

No, my dad is not Jewish at all. He's an atheist. And so we didn't grow up with my family. With religion? No. But you did grow up like, you know, in the city? In the city, 11th and 5th yeah uh i was born in new york hospital and uh i went to manhattan friends quaker school on 16th street

i lived right there did you like literally right there at 16th and 3rd oh 16th and 3rd in the corner building yeah i love that building with the doorman yeah yeah that's the greatest building ever it's a weirdo building man is it weird yeah because it was this old pre-war kind of like building yeah it's a great building i bet you regret that you're not in that building well i mean this is great but no i know i had an opportunity to buy but like i had no idea how to buy things i didn't have that much money but i just couldn't understand how it could cost that much money when they started selling them because Because it was like a rent control. And there were some freaks that live in that building, man.

Like there were some like real old school New York weirdos. The thing you would have had to do is by two, break a wall down to make. Because those were small units. Yeah. I mean, it's all small in New York unless you're like a kajillionaire. So what is that school down there? It's a Quaker school. But it's just a good school though. You school down there? It's a Quaker school. But you didn't, you were just a good school though.

You weren't there cause you were a Quaker. I think my mom thought it was a, in the eighties, it was kind of a hippie school. Right. And that's when you went? That's when I went. And,

uh, my sister went to Fieldston cause she was a really good athlete and she was a tomboy. And I was supposed to be the artsy one. So I went to friends. Now I think it's like a really fancy school but back in the day it was well i just know it was like what is it first through sixth no it's all the way k through 12 no kidding yeah yeah i just know it was like a private kind of not a montessori school but like a good school like you know celebrity kids went there and stuff yeah but it wasn't like that back in the day. I swear to God.

Well, what were you doing? Finger painting? Yeah, paper mache. My husband makes fun of my grammar. He's like, what did you learn there? Anything? How long did you... You went all the way through?

I went all the way through. You were in that little place from first through 12th? Well, except for when I was in London. But yes, starting in kindergarten all the way through 12th grade, that was my place where I went. Were you one of a small bunch of people that stayed the full run yeah they took pictures of us you know as seniors the matched the kindergarten with the really how many really made it through like there

were like five of us right that stayed the whole time do you know those people now no really no i didn't keep in touch with anybody no what are you a monster yes no i just wasn't that close with those particular people well you're you're preoccupied i mean you've got things don't you have like five nine ten kids how many kids you have five nine ten kids three that's a lot. It is. It's insane. Why'd you decide on three? Well, because we thought it would be cute because the second one was so easy. She was so goddamn easy and such an angel.

Yeah. And she lured us into this weird state where we were like, three is so cute. Yeah. And it is, but she was exceptionally easy. That kid. That kid. So you had another one. Yeah. And it is, but she was exceptionally easy. That kid. That kid. So you had another one. Yeah.

And oh, she convinced you to have a third one? No, she just by her angelic. Oh, you thought like, wow, we really struck gold. Why don't we just have another one of these? Let's have another angel. This is fantastic. And what was the first one doing? She's fantastic in her own way, but she's not as easy. Right. And what was the third one doing? She's fantastic in her own way, but she's not as easy. Right.

And what was the third one? He's in between the two of them. And it's a boy. So we were lucky because we had two girls and then we got a boy. You got the boy. And that kid is only like two now, right? Yeah. Yeah.

He's two. And how is that going, the two thing? I don't have children, so I'm just trying to act like I know I'm talking about. the two thing. I don't have children so I'm just trying to act like I know I'm talking about. Yeah, sometimes I feel

the same as you probably where I act like I know what I'm talking about. Yeah. You know, like when I'm in a parent teacher night,

not as much a parent teacher conference but like one of those back to school nights where you go with all the parents. Yeah. And especially now

that Frankie's older if they start talking about math or something, I just glaze over. Do you change the subject to papier-mâché? Yeah, exactly. When I was in school, we did a lot of crafts.

Well, I do get, I get insecure and so I just try to look normal and act parental and normal. But really inside, I'm just like a big loser who like couldn't make it past. I don't think I even took algebra. Really? I was so bad at math. I was bad at algebra,

but I often think about that. Oh, do you? Why? Because like, I wonder about your true regrets. No, I know,

but there's a few. Yeah. Yeah. I wish I was more interested in chess. Oh, well, these are just not too late. No, it is. No, it isn't. No, it is. No, it there's a few, yeah. I wish I was more interested in chess. Well, these are just not too late. No, it is. No, it isn't. No, it is.

No, it isn't. I'm not going to put the time in. Why do you have to be the best? Why can't you just enjoy chess? It'll put you in a flow state, which is very good for... You sound like a chess player. No, I mean, I'm not a chess player. But a flow state.

What's that? Where you just kind of lock in? A flow state is good for neurotic people who think too much because you... I do guitar. Okay, so there you go. All right, I do that. And, you know, sometimes... It could be like another thing like that that you...

Yeah, sometimes I'll cook some things. Me too. Cooking is a good... I like to keep the dirty dishes out of the sink type of deal. Uh-huh. That kind of thing. Organizing. Yeah.

Yeah, right now, this is the garage is bordering on sad to me and needs to be dealt with. I have this dream of just getting rid of fucking everything. Don't do it. Because this is very special. I know. I know.

Maybe I'll just tear the house down and just have this. Like a weird vacant lot with pipes sticking up in the garage. No. All right. So let's go back. Yeah. We've got math.

Oh, what I was saying was when I talked. Faking it. I don't know. Well, yeah. Well, that's what I always wonder about. Like how would I parent if like the kids are like, can you help me with your homework? Not a chance. What I do.

I learn nothing. So if I see, she'll say, mommy, mommy. And if I see that it's math, I will walk over and then quickly pretend something distracted me. That should help the kid. And that I'm really busy. Yeah, right. So she's just on her own. Yeah.

Sorry, I don't know what. Or I'll make it into like, you know, like I'll take a stance about it. Like I'll see that it's math and not something I can help her with. And I'll say, don't you think you need to try a try a little harder on your own you know i make it about her like being overly dependent on you know getting my approval when really it's because i'm fucking terrified that i have no idea what she's fucking talking about long division when's the last time you did long division that's what the squid in the line? The thing in the thing, yeah. And apparently they do it differently now.

I had to call my sister. I was like in the corner calling her as if it was like. No, it's not about a sickness. It's about division. The two things I call her about. Math and illness. Yeah. How do you carry the one and the remainder thing or dinger?

They don't do it like we used to do it. What the fuck? Yeah. And she's just like, wow. God. But that's what she says? I mean, it's in a loving way, but yeah. But don't, have you ever sort of like tried to re-engage? Like it's in the book.

With long division? Well, the kid's got the book, right? So it's got to be explained in there. I'm going to be really honest with you right now. Cause I just feel like it. Yeah. It's too hard. I'm telling you she her level of

math just became too hard what grade fourth grade okay you can't talk you're feeling all sorry for me as if you're in a different boat i don't have kids that's not the point i'm never called upon like that's not the point the point is is you're thinking it's silly that I can't do fourth grade math. But probably you not necessarily, you know. What I was trying to do is be empathetic with the sad moment. Okay. That, you know, you made this admission. You know, it is, you know, it's a vulnerable place.

You know, and, you know, I'm happy that I was here for you to. Okay, thank you. To kind of decide to come out and say something so truthful and sad that I was trying to make this a safe space, Amanda. Wait, can I just tell you one thing that has compounded the whole thing? It's that they told me some time ago, maybe a year ago, maybe a little more, that Frankie was quite good at math. maybe a year ago maybe a little more that frankie was quite good at math and in the parent teacher conference i started laughing and saying well

she doesn't get it from me because you know my husband wasn't there he was away shooting somewhere and and i was like i hated math and they said don't tell her that because it's important because you're a girl and she's a girl and you don't want to go around saying you don't like math because we need more STEM girls and stuff. STEM girls? Yeah, you know, STEM, science, something. STEM cell? No, it's not STEM cell. Can you look it up?

STEM? Yeah. STEM, it's... Is it plant stuff? It's to do with women in science and math and technology. And I don't know exactly how each letter. Okay. So it stands for something.

Yes. Okay. Okay. All right. STEM Education Coalition. Is that what it is? Yeah. Science, technology, engineering, mathematics.

God, thank you. That's so deeply satisfying, isn't it? Yeah. I feel better. I do too. So, all right. But you, but still going back to like, I do have this idea that, like, if I just got myself an algebra textbook, I could take another crack at it.

Yeah, you're smoking crack. But do you think it's because we're not capable or just because we glaze over? I mean, is it a lack of discipline? What is it? I think it's both. Uh-huh. I mean, speaking for myself, I can't speak for you. I definitely think that as soon as I see the number and the numbers in the hundreds and

then the long division for me and that number's a big number, I go blank. You're just sort of like, time for a nap. It's like looking at... Mm-hmm. What bearing does this have on my life? as if I'm looking at... Mm-hmm. What bearing does this have on my life? No, but it's not a thing of like, that's not important enough.

It's just you're too dumb. You're not going to get in there. Yeah. You're not going to be able to get in there. So just... See, I believe that. Like, I'd rather go along. I'd rather go with this sort of like,

well, I could probably do it if I applied myself, but I'm not going to. Like, you know, I'm certainly smart enough to handle long division, but I don't know. I don't need to now. What do you think of that? I'm into that. I like that. And I'm going to try that on. No, don't do it with your kid.

Oh, no. Just what about tutors and things? For me? did a math tutor history tutor recently recently you had a history too do you not have the internet at your house yeah but that's not you had a history too oh for a role no for what just like you're like well you woke up one day like i don't know enough about yeah really for real so you hired a history tutor that's correct to learn well first i was going to start with world war one ottoman empire how everything was divvied up but then i realized boy i know fucking nothing about before that so we ended up going way back to like Mesopotamia and stuff. And, you know, the Fertile Crescent and all that.

Yeah. None of which I really remembered. So that went on for a little while. How long? Like a weekly meeting? Yeah. You took notes? Sometimes more than once.

Were there quizzes? No, that's a good thing. And I didn't have to write an essay. What is better than that? It's like, it's, it almost felt, it really felt almost like not fair. Right. So what, did you get caught up? No, I don't remember anything.

Again, second time around. That's cool. Recently. Yeah. Nothing stuck. Not really. But, all right. I remember thinking it was interesting, you know.

At the time, sure. It's going in like, oh, yeah, this is great. And now I look back at my notes. First of all, I can't read them because they're illegible. You're taking notes with your history. You're right. So nothing has changed for you since school? Well, I get to say that I was interested enough to hire a tutor on a podcast with you.

What were you doing in school? Were you just being a mean girl or were you having fun? That's quite an assumption. That's got a vibe. Oh my God, that's horrible. Tell me I'm wrong. You are wrong. Okay.

Yeah, I was just busy being mean, so I didn't concentrate. What were you doing? Daydreaming. All right. Well, there's no reason to get defensive. No, I'm not. I swear, I'm not. I've seen you play relatively emotionally shut down people that were kind of mean and

a little detached. And, you know, maybe I made assumptions. I hope I'm not mean. And in school, I just was, you know, I just probably I probably had ADHD, but they didn't have it back then. No, they just called people like me, just like people who were like, give her some paper mache. Right. Or they were like motivational problems. Unmotivated. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

So where were your parents guiding you through this? Your mother, the social worker, your father, the corporate lawyer, your floundering and paper mache and no, no guidance. No. Oh yeah. Tutors were, tutors were lined up. Oh really? Tests were taken.

Nothing could help. Psychological tests. Yeah. Like a whole, in seventh grade, she, she you know she was in analytic training at iptar in new york city so she was in the whole 80s psychoanalysis right let's figure these kids out yeah yeah so uh so in fact when i went to a shrink when i was 13 he was an analyst he was like you know you're a very good candidate for psychoanalysis at 13 yeah and what what happened in that i went into i went into psychoanalysis at 13 yeah and what what happened in that i went into i went into

psychoanalysis at 13 yeah how'd that work out well um i mean it was both good and bad well i mean everything was pretty fresh yeah you know i mean what I mean? That was your childhood. Yeah. It's still going on. Yeah. Isn't it odd that we were, I mean, I remember going to one because I was having

trouble in school and they brought me to the first kid therapist and he just brought me into a room with a table and there was just millions of board games.

Yeah. And toys and stuff. Right. You want to play? And I'm like, not really. And then they brought me to the more kind of, a more sort of open approach therapist, which was sort of like, let's just talk, man.

What's up? You know, not the kind of like, I'm going to evaluate you. Yeah, based on how you do this board game. Right, no, that guy was good. There was group and, you know, I fell in love in love with a you know suicidally depressed girl yeah no well that's you know i mean it's romantic yeah i was young you know and uh you know sensitive did you save her no because we can't well i did you know i just learned that two years ago oh yes that one took a while yeah that's a tough one yeah really you've been through that no how long have you been married uh just over 10

years i just had my 10 year oh wow but i saved him you did no he's still in trouble. Yeah. What does he do? He, my husband is a writer. For movies and television? He does both. He's a novelist and then he runs a TV show. Which one? It's called Game of Thrones. That's a big show. It is. People enjoy it. They do. It seems very complicated. He must be very busy. He is busy. complicated he must be very busy he is busy i i can't even that to me that's like math like to approach games and throws right now people are like you haven't watched it i'm like i don't even know i can't start at the beginning be like the rest of my life at this point yeah i hear you but that's a good gig and they make it more does it end ever? They, we have asked that question many times. Does it ever end? This is the, this coming season we're going to shoot in August, September. That will be the last season. Are you in it?

No. Then why are you saying we? Because I hold down the fort while he goes to do it. Okay. With the kids and all. Let's. You're like, okay, that's boring. Let's move on. No, it's not boring. I just, I don't like, you know, I wish I knew more about Guardians of the Throne. But I With the kids and all. You're like, okay, that's boring. Let's move on.

No, it's not boring. I just, I don't like, you know, I wish I knew more about Guardians of the Throne, but I'm more interested in you and figuring out how the hell everything.

That makes one of you in the universe. Oh, come on now. I just, I'm interested in the, you know, how you evolved into this actress person. So you just fucked off

from K to 12. Well, I didn't fuck off. I tried really hard and I went to Columbia. Well, you must have done all right then. Yeah. So what happens? When do you find your passion? Well, when I was growing up, my mom, I did a little acting class in the basement of a

church in England while my sister was playing baseball with my cousins. She was a tomboy. I think I mentioned that. And I took this little acting class where we would all, you know, pretend to be a sausage or, you know, I love you, baby, but I just can't smile. Those were the exercises? Yeah. They were like weird, just exercises.

It was very good for someone like me. Yeah. yeah exercises it was very good for someone like me yeah and then when i got home to new york i went to hb studio on bank street where udah hagen was teaching this is before college this is before college i took the teenage class there on sundays every sunday for two hours with udah hagen no with her one of her protege and then junior year at columbia i auditioned for udah hagen and i studied with her for four and a half years. And then I got very serious because people had headshots. And I was like, what's a headshot?

Holy shit. So you were just learning how to do it. You weren't like looking at the career element. You were becoming an actor. Yeah, but I was starting once I was in Uta's class. That's when I started thinking, wow, maybe this could be what I want to do. I, not just like a side thing on Sundays. I don't know that. I think I've talked to maybe one or two people that maybe took with her a little bit, but

you studied with her a lot. Yeah. And you were good because you're a good actress. So you had a relationship with Uta Hagen. Yes. She was a method practitioner. She, uh, she has this book called respect for acting right and then she wrote challenge for the actor and she puts you through as you go through her courses

you go through these exercises that she kind of made up that are what does she come from who does she come from she she's not a group theater person or like she's not no she's like her own thing she's her own thing so what do you learn so you're going on sundays and you're with her protege or her her and but you're young so what what do you learn what are these different so that was an improv class so um i wasn't doing utah's exercises in that class i was just doing improvs every sunday with other kids who are teenagers. Yeah. And you liked it though. Weirdos. Yeah.

But not necessarily comedy improvs. Like everyone talks about now. It always, the place to go is always comedy, but it's not. It never occurred to me to think about comedy versus drama until like five years ago. I mean,

it just never occurred to me. It just doesn't, it's better if I don't think about that. Right. But now everyone involved right but now you're becoming a funny person you're you're sort of i you're i don't know if anyone's told you that but you're evolving into a funny person and i think i don't think that was the original intention well the first movie i did my, the movie that was my break was The Whole Nine Yards. But that wasn't the first movie you did.

But that was my, it was. I know, right. Right, with Bruce Willis and the other goofballs. So then I couldn't get a drama after I did that. Really? Because then I was like, oh, she can't do drama. She's just silly. So the pendulum has gone.

Back and forth a bit. But you can do both. Well, I like to think so, but you know... But at some point, though, you have to... Sometimes it's not bad to be funny. I agree. Because funny's harder, and there's not that many funny people. That's my belief.

I mean, a lot of people can fake their way through a drama. This is true. That's true. But you can't fake your way through a drama. This is true. That's true. But you can't fake your way through a comedy unless someone really uses you properly. Like, that idiot's not funny at all. Put funny people around him and see what happens. Oh, look, he's like a tree. He's like a maypole for funny people.

So tell me about these exercises so I can understand. I'd like to do a couple with you. Okay. so I can understand. I'd like to do a couple with you. Okay. Okay, well, the better ones, the one that I think about a lot that is in Uta's book

is talking on the phone. Okay. And the reason she assigns it is only for you to get used to what we call the fourth wall. Right. So that you won't feel afraid to look out. Yeah. And yet you won't feel afraid to look out. Yeah.

And yet you won't look out for reasons of wanting to be presentational. Oh, to engage with the audience in that way. Well, you want to be able to look out in case there's a part where you're like, look at those trees or. Right, right, right, right, right. But not audience related. Right. Yeah.

So what you do is you, she makes you go home and you rehearse talking on the phone to three different people. Right. Yeah. So what you do is you, she makes you go home and you rehearse talking on the phone to three different people. Right. And three different people have to be as different as possible. And what you're supposed to learn to do is face out and not be afraid. And then you're also supposed to learn how you change and your voice changes depending on who you're talking to so these were some of the funniest shit i have ever seen in theater really people talking to their agent and then clicking over because it was in the time of call waiting sure and talking to their mom so they'd be like um no i definitely i'm available for. Now, do I need to read the sides before I go? I'm so sorry.

Can you hold on one second? Hello? Hi, Mom! I know, because I was out. I know. Can you just hold on one second? I'll call you right back. I'll call you right back.

I'll call you right back. Like, just psychotic people. You just can't even believe people are this is how people really are. Right. Good people. Right. You just can't even believe people are, this is how people really are. Right. Good people. Right. People who really got it. Yeah.

It was like, I mean, the best, the greatest theater ever. Really? That's an interesting exercise. So you have to manufacture the other side of the conversation. That's right. Did you do a lot of theater then? Were you like, is that where you started? Would you say you started in theater?

Well, I tried. I did a play my junior year off-Broadway, and then I did a play at Jewish Rep and stuff, and then I was doing commercials, and eventually I got a law and order, which is sort of like the... That's the graduation? That's the moment. Here you go.

We've run out of people. It's your turn. Exactly. Exactly. New Blood. Thank God. Yeah. What. New Blood. Thank God. Yeah. What'd you play?

I played a Patty Hearst character who was, you know, like a. Brainwashed. Stockholm syndrome type. Yeah. How'd that go? It was good. Yeah. I thought it was.

Was that your first role on TV? That was the first role on TV. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. And I did Seinfeld. Yeah. Shortly after that. What'd you play in Seinfeld? He wasn't very nice to me, but

maybe he was in a bad way. Was that like the first season-ish? No. No. It was Seinfeld. He wasn't very nice to you? No. I don't know him. I don't know, but I was terrified because I have a horrible stage fright. Still?

Yeah. When you're dealing with a live audience? Anything live. Like if I'm going on, you know, like Dave Letterman, I had to take a Xanax sometimes. Really? Yeah. Well, how did he handle you? He was great to me.

Yeah. But I loved him too much. And when you love someone too much, it's important to take a Xanax. I did stand up on there like four times or five times but i did one sit down talk and i was like like i was just looking i'm going like oh my god he's right there that feeling of like this is happening yeah yeah yeah xanax would have helped but then i would have spent my life on xanax yeah then you tricky yeah i can't do i'm one of those people you know just the one xanax would be like, why not live life like this? It's a good question. Yeah, sure it is.

I've asked myself that question many, many times. So you do the Law and Order. So I did the Law and Order, and then I sort of started working on things like Seinfeld and little things. And then I started testing for things that were a little bit bigger and then eventually I read with Bruce Willis and he chose me just complete anonymity I was just some girl and he was like that's a girl I want wow and I was no I was doing like law and order and stuff so he basically just he's the guy that uh he he's the Yeah. And you liked him. He was nice. We had a very good time.

Well, there's a lot of funny people in that thing. People like that movie. It's a goofy movie. Yeah. I try to tell them I'm not going to take my clothes off. And they said, well, we're going to go to someone else then. And I said, okay. How long do you want?

How much tits do you want? And how much did they end up getting? More than makes me comfortable now to think about. But is that really, that happened in the audition, that question? No, it happened after they gave me the offer. They said, you know, let's start the deal. You know, I didn't have a lawyer.

I didn't know. I was just like, am I going to get paid for this? Because that's fantastic. Yeah. Like I just. Yeah. And yeah, so they were like, you need a lawyer to figure out how long your tits are going to be out so i hired a lawyer and you know there's a guy who specializes in that

did you have to ask your dad do you have any friends who deal with tit time like on camera tit time yeah my dad no he's yeah that wasn't his forte but yeah maybe you had a buddy no i remember being like i need a lawyer to you know negotiate then i had to find an entertainment lawyer yeah and so but that was right after you got the part they yeah they dumped that on you it's like you're the one your boobs are up yeah your boobs are up and i was like that is so sexist and if you really want me you want me for my performance what does it matter if and they were like no sorry and i was like wait wait wait wait wait okay how much tits where do you want my ass whatever you want tits and ass i i you know i haven't seen in a long time but i it's just not good i think

there's a lot in there but but you they made me go to a trainer they did yeah well you mean they looked at your ass and said maybe we gotta yeah and a tanning salon but was that for the character though no nice try but okay but as it turned out it was kind of a goofy character so there i was kind of protected yeah so i took my shirt off but then she was so weird the character i played that it was kind of i there was some protection in how quirky she was right and how um it wasn't completely sexualized no right it was weirdly i don't have a clear memory of the movie. I understand. Probably, I have one about as much as you have.

Okay. Except you were in it, but I mean, if you were watching it, like now you're saying, I don't really know how much time. I'm not sure either, but I believe I've watched it. I'm comforted to know that you don't know that. Well, I mean, I imagine if I Googled. Otherwise, I'd be pretty scared. Amanda Peete.

I'd be like you know this has been wonderful i'm gonna get out of your fucking creepy garage now now it's creepy no yeah now it's creepy in the scenario that we're just discussing i'm not going there it's it's still a nice happy warm place okay and then so that you felt that was your break i did it was my break yeah how do you know that? All of a sudden you're like, who's that girl? All of a sudden studio executives wanted to have a general and things like that. And then right away I kind of went around the revolving door of Hollywood and sort of I did Saving Silverman and then I couldn't get arrested for a while. Yeah, I remember that movie.

Jason Biggs. Yeah, yeah. I remember that movie. Jason Biggs. Yeah, yeah. And the brilliant Steve Zahn and Jack Black. They didn't give you anything to work with? The mean girl. The bitchy. Hmm. You know what?

What? I'm going to have to go back into psychoanalysis after this. This is... No, you're not. You're not in it now? No, I don't believe in it. Oh, really? I don't believe in it oh really i don't believe in psychoanalysis really what's that based on my experience look at me didn't work yeah

but you felt like you were sort of you were given short shrift in that movie like you didn't have a lot to work with or you just i'm not blaming anyone i'm just saying you can only be as good as the part and if you continue to play like you know thin roles right where you're just supposed to be you know i've talked about this but if you're just supposed to be lovely right or or you know seductive yeah it just people start to wonder whether you're really an act, whether you can really act. They could be like, oh, you sound natural. Your voice doesn't sound like this. But I have no idea what your capabilities are.

You're just like a set dressing, a prop in a way, or just a generic. An okay act. She's okay. She's like, she can sound real and she doesn't look down the barrel. Great. We can use her for that little thing. Yeah. But see, like, it's weird because, I mean,

you did other movies, but like, for me, Changing Lanes was a great performance. Well, you're just very sweet, but thank you. And in Syriana, another kind of detached, weird, great performance. Like, I seem to like you when you're kind of like, man, she's cold-blooded, that one. Yeah, you do.

But then I watched, like, all of Togetherness, and I was really waiting for that fucking relationship that you were in with Zizek. We were going to go there. I know you were. You had to. What's that guy were in with Zizek. We were going to go there. I know you were. You had to. What's that guy's name? Zizek? Steve Zissus. Zissus. Zissus. I love that guy. I love that guy too. And Duplass and Melanie. Melanie's been in here.

Mark's been in here. We wanted Steve but I think he was too broken up about the series ending that I couldn't get him. And then like your character, I wanted you. I wanted that show to last because I needed that to happen with you and Steve. Me too. God damn it. It was a heartbreak for me.

I felt like they really passed me the ball. Yeah. And they're like, go ahead and, you know, do your weird thing. Yeah. They were very, very trusting those duplasses yeah they're just like roll the camera and go like so i tried really hard to they like they would even say go off the rails like just you know so i tried really hard because i love them so i was nervous to if i had kept it too tight i feel like they would have been like.

Nah, you're not taking chances. But wait, we didn't talk about that other thing, that huge. Stem? No, stem we covered. We got to the bottom of stem. No, no, it's important. It's important that teacher was right. But the Aaron Sorkin thing.

Oh, Aaron Sorkin, yeah. Like that, that guy's notoriously intense. I actually liked... Diplomatic word. Yeah. But you were in Studio 60 on the Sunset Strip, which is like, that was going to be a huge show. Yeah.

It was going to be, yeah. I'm sorry. It's okay. What do you think went wrong with that? Because I remember watching a couple of them. What did D.L. Hughley go on that deal hugely and it was about sort of based on like behind the scenes of snl kind of deal and then snl kind of made their own with 30 rock right isn't that what happened i don't know why i'm not opening my mouth um i think we were a little bloated with our own bloat, all of us, from top to bottom.

Oh, yeah? Self-important? Maybe. Yeah. Overly confident and... But like, Aaron can write the shit out of things. I agree. Both for good and bad.

And it's a tricky bit of business as an actor to manage his writing. I like him a lot. Yeah, me too. And I find him to be... was my pleasure yeah to get those scene for scene yeah as a you know adult female actress i don't i would if he said i'm gonna do this thing but i haven't written it yet i'd say where do you want me to sign? Right. Yeah, he's an incredibly talented guy. So what's this new show? I talked to Hank.

You did? I did, briefly. I like him. Yeah, me too. He's fucking funny. Yeah. He was doing some stuff that was really hard for me to behave when I was in frame.

In terms of not laugh? Yeah. How many did you make? We made, I think we made eight in like three days. for me to behave when I was in frame. In terms of not laugh? Yeah. How many did you make? We made, I think we made eight in like three days. It's IFC, yeah. We were. I know, I had a show on IFC. Yeah, I know.

Yeah, you're doing like 12-page days, 15-page days. I'm pretty sure I wrote, there were times where I wrote some dialogue, you know, and taped it to something because I was like, I don't know which episode this is like i don't know which episode this is i don't know which scene this is tricky baseball jargon me no bueno uh-huh you know yeah yeah yeah high velo era like all this baseball talk i mean i you know no yeah a little bit like frankie's math homework but you got it though yeah it's weird right when you have to do stack shows up and like you're going, that was the hardest thing for

me as a novice actor was to really figure out where was I, the scene before this that we shot three days ago. And then we shot that whole other show in between this one. Like where, how do I, like, I don't think I quite got a handle on that. So what now in terms of writing? Are you going to write another thing? I'm trying. Yeah?

It's really hard. Do you write every day? I was writing every day, and then I thought I was ready to go out with this play that I'm writing. And then David and Dan's friend, Craig Mazin, who's a writer, he wrote the Hangover movies. He wrote Identity Theft. Yeah. You were in that, right? Yeah.

He basically told me that it sucked. Your play. Yeah. And that he'd be so mad if he heard me say this right now. He didn't tell me it sucked, but he was like, you know what? I'm going to tell you what he said. He said, you're circling something really good here. That's not you sucked.

Yeah, but it's so horrible. No. Whose fucking side are you on? Amanda, I'm trying to. You're on Craig Mazin's side. No, I'm trying to get you working again. I want you to continue writing. And I think what he's saying is that, you know, these things you can't, you know, like this is really good, but I think you can go a little deeper.

Doesn't it sometimes feel like, you know, you're at the, you know, sometimes I'm like, oh, I'm in a marathon. I'm at the, I just passed the 22 mile mark. And then someone's like, no, that was the 12 mile mark. That was a 12 mile mark. was the 12 mile mark that was a 12 mile mark no i know i know the feeling but i think this it seems to me that for people like us in the ways that we are like that um you know we just want to you know you know we just want to be told we did a great job every time and uh and if if if there people are like it was okay then it's sort of like, well, why should I do anything anymore? Because if you're sensitive and you're creative, you can easily be derailed.

Yeah. And if you can't find it within yourself, especially if... The thing about acting or the thing about doing stand-up is that you pretty much... I don't understand how you people do it well i mean but the point is is that with acting you sort of like you you know you get a lot of tries but if you're doing film but but nonetheless you you sort of do it and then it's done whereas like you know writing you know in a vacuum where you don't know if it's going to make it to where you want to make it you don't know if it's going to make it to where you want to make it, if it's going to sell or it's ever going to be on stage, and it's all you,

how can you trust yourself to, number one, know when it's done or good? And then how can you trust other people when you want them to see it? And then if you get one bad note, how can you not spin out completely? Well, I'll tell you something. You know, my husband's a very good writer and his partner, D.B. Weiss, is also a very good writer. And so I go through a series of drafts with them. And then at a certain point, Craig Mazin, the evil dick, is the gatekeeper. So before I go out into the world with something, I'll go to Craig Mazin because he's so brutal. After you run it through the Game of Thrones machine? You put it through the Game of Thrones mill and then you pull Mazin in?

And then we pull Mazin in. And you tell him that like well you know knights and things with swords have sanctioned this it's been coronated yeah and you're gonna go against he's like you're really listening to those pussies give it to me so i could tell it to you straight well also right that your husband's a little close yeah but he is really brutal my husband really yeah on you yeah about your creativity about my work you know brutal this is a lazy rewrite i don't believe this isn't you know whatever yeah i saw this coming 10 pages away i don't want to see it coming you know this feels like expository

cut all of this is not funny but it's funny but it happened i don't care cut it he's like very yeah and and how does that play out in the home life i like it because it makes me actually feel like he thinks i'm in the at the table right so i actually weirdly it's a really big weirdly even when he's criticizing me it's weirdly my ego is okay because I think I really do feel like he thinks I'm at the table

and that's so exciting to me that I I yeah so when we get out of show business what are we going to do what's your dream what

if you really don't have to do show business I I'm just going to be a grandma oh so you can wait it out i'm just gonna and maybe i'll have another tutor uh-huh how about you what what am i gonna do i i'm just gonna stop and uh find a place you know somewhere isolated or away why uh because i i do not like people

no i do i do but like But I just need some space. Somehow or another, LA is becoming like New York became. I'm feeling kind of fucking like there's too many people. And it happened to me in New York primarily because of the subway, where there's literally people touching you every day. Do you have germy things? Nope. No germy things.

But now when I get on the highway here, I'm like, fucking, there's no getting out of here. You know, I'm just sort of like, this is fucking nuts. What about, so what are you thinking? Like Minneapolis? Like a smaller city? New Mexico. I want to believe that I can get like a nice reasonable place with a little property and a little more space and just sit there and be like

i did it that's that's the plan but can you really i don't know okay what can you i don't know do you think about it yeah but i think for people it might be like the tree falling in the forest thing like if you can't what if if marin falls down in his house in new mexico no one's there to hear or see it fall no it's more like if you do something or say something funny which you will yeah oh then it's just just me and my cat where you yeah well i mean i don't know that i have to completely disappear okay but i i imagine that if i did for a year i don't think i'm not dave chappelle it's not gonna be like where's marin when's that happening again it's definitely gonna be like where's marin for a lot of people right including that psycho out there right that

you brought to my house yeah and i hope you're gonna keep this part in the podcast because i didn't occur to me to bring him up but but ethan if you're listening, later on, he works for David and Dan on Game of Thrones. He's a Game of Thrones fan. He invited him. He's like psychotically you're it. Okay. Well,

Which isn't to say I don't think you're it, but I feel like his love for you kind of disturbed. I think I handled it all right yeah you did great i did i didn't let him in the house so what would he be doing in there looking at your shit taking pictures that was a good call on my part yeah i feel like i should give him something i look around it's got to be something in here that i can give ethan right see what i do for you ethan yeah we're

talking to him because you know he's gonna listen yeah he could be right there well no i understand what you're saying about getting out now that we're talking about it and i'm thinking freely i don't think you're mean by the way i i threw that out there for you to to say like no which They're like, no, which you did not really completely. I can be a raging bitch. Okay. Just ask Ethan. Okay. The guy out on my deck. This psycho stalker.

On my deck. Who's pacing. Well, you know, it's been great talking to you. You too. I had a blast here. Did you really? Yes. All right.

I mean, I'm schvitzing in my schmata. Are you really? Yeah. Is it hot? It's not that hot. I opened the thing up. Yeah. That's usually a sign that we got to stop.

Okay. I like you very much. I like you too. And I'm glad you're doing funny shows. And I've liked your recent work and the two things that I'm obsessed with where you're kind of mean. The one in Changing Lanes. I want everyone to watch the movie. I think it's the best recovery-oriented movie

that I've ever seen. Do you remember who wrote it? It's going to be so awful that I don't because he's so great. Hold on, hold on. Oh, good. I'll let you be like... It's Chap Taylor and Michael Tolkien. Do you remember who wrote it are you

really doing this because this part has to be in there that you were going to be so sweet that you were going to let me do that you're the best person ever do you want to try you want to try and do it no i want this whole thing to be in here let's try it again hold on let's just see if you can act oh okay do you do you uh do you remember who wrote it? Chip Taylor and Tuckle Token. Tuckle Token? What's his name? Michael Token. He wrote The Player.

He's the greatest. He's great, yeah. My friends. Let's try it again. All right. Do you remember who wrote it? It was Michael Token. Oh, he's great.

He wrote The Player and some other ones that I liked. Yeah. So let's see if that guy is in my house. Okay, let's go. Let's go try to find him. Ethan? All right, that was me and Amanda Peet having a nice time. That was a nice time.

It was a nice afternoon we had. Again, wtfpod.com slash tour for the tour dates. Use those links, which take you to the appropriate ticket vendor. And yeah, I'll see you out there. Sorry, no guitar playing today. Oh, it'll be okay. It'll be

okay. No, don't get upset. I'll play again. Probably not Monday because I'll be recording. You know what? I'm going to go. Boomer lives! It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. We'll be right back. No. But Moosehead? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age.

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