WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 810 - Kevin Bacon

Episode Date: May 10, 2017

Kevin Bacon started his career with an awkward experience on the set of Animal House. Then his fear of becoming a major star after Footloose led him to self-sabotage. It wasn't until he rejected Hollywood's idea of being a leading man and embraced being a character actor that everything flourished. Kevin also tells Marc stories about Diner, JFK, A Few Good Men, Sleepers, Apollo 13, Mystic River and the new series I Love Dick, which has him doing things he'd never done before as an actor. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die.

We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply.

Lock the gates! Okay, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fucksters what's happening i am mark maron this is wtf my podcast maybe you can tell by the slight audio difference than what it usually sounds like that i am not at home. I am in New York City. I am directly across from Central Park. I can look out the window and see hossies and people and joggers and bikers. And it's beautiful here in New York looking over Central Park. Just to the left, there's some Trump owned property that I went down to the restaurant and I sat there and they said, you want to look out the window at the door to the Trump Park or whatever it is? And I said, I don't know.

I think I see enough of that name everywhere else. In reality, when I look at anything that maybe I'll look towards the lobby. That's New York City. Kevin Bacon is on the show today. That's exciting. I always want, you know, Kevin Bacon's one of those cats, you know, it's like there's always been a Kevin Bacon is on the show today that's exciting I always wanted you know Kevin Bacon's one of those cats you know it's like there's always been a Kevin Bacon you know not the the game aside you know it's just like throughout my whole life he's we're about the same age but he's just always Kevin Bacon's always just right over there where's Kevin Bacon oh he's around and he's just always

been part of my life you know as, as a personality, as an actor. And it was interesting to talk to him because he's a solid dude. He's a solid actor. He's always fucking good. And it was exciting to have the opportunity to talk to him. New York City is fucking beautiful. I'm happy to be here. I haven't been here in a while, but it has been very busy.

I'll tell you why I'm here. Because we're doing what they call in the in the racket i am here doing a bonafide press junket for the upcoming netflix show glow the gorgeous ladies of wrestling i'm i'm here with um betty gilpin and alice and brie and basically what a junket is and i'll be with you, this is the first time I've ever done this. I'm very proud of the show. It looks great. It's original.

It's interesting. It's funny. It's deep. It's a world that you haven't seen before. And it's exciting. It's exciting to be part of it. Obviously, I acted on my own series for four years, but that got little to no attention

and certainly not a press junket. So this is my first time doing this. It's where they, Netflix has flown us out here. They put us up at a hotel I usually don't stay at. It's fancy. And yesterday you get up in the morning and the three of us go to another location, another suite in another hotel. And we sit there in front of a camera crew. And every four minutes, someone from a different local or national network outlet comes in and interviews us with slightly different approaches to interview. Four and a half to seven minutes for three hours. And you get a groove going and we've got a good chemistry, me and the ladies. And that was fun and interesting. Then you eat an okay lunch. And then you go do a series of round tables for print interviews for

the next three or four hours and then you do a little social networking platform stuff for netflix and then i come back to the room and then the the ladies go do some other stuff because it's their show it's the ladies show I'm just the guy on board. I'm the one guy in the world of women of glow. But it was great seeing people do the thing. You know, we all kind of have to do the thing in show business. You know, do the interview, turn on the juice, you know, sell the show. And just to watch it evolve over time, it's pretty amazing. There is professionalism.

Whatever you think of whatever we do, and I certainly am not at the level of Allison in terms of acting or anything, but the job of being in show business when you are working is pretty intense and it's beautiful to watch professionals do it. You know, there's a camaraderie here. We're in the same, we're in the same game and some people are great at it and some people are okay at it, but, but, you know, showing up for this stuff is, is pretty fucking exciting and it was really fun to watch them, you know, do it as well. Is it okay if I have a good time in these end times?

Is it okay if I have a good day, an end times is it okay if i have a good day an exciting day even though i'm still feeling a little under the weather i hope this isn't the end of me that's it you know i don't like being this age where you know you get a little buggy and then you're like oh is this it is this the harbinger of the end of me spent some time with my pal sam lipsight had a little dinner you know it's wild when you don't see friends as often as you probably should see friends. And something I've learned from doing the podcast for so long is a lot of times you got to catch up. And a lot of times that seems like a very stilted process. And it seems somewhat, you know uh forced so it's funny what me and sam is that

like when i see him i'm like you know do you have a few hours because we're gonna have to sit and do it because you know they i haven't talked to him in months so you know he's had his life going on i got my life going on he's got his problems i got my problems he's got his successes i got my successes so when we go out you know we meet took a train and you start the conversation we get to dinner you continue the conversation but not unlike a podcast sometimes it takes a while to break through to the uh the the engagement and the relaxation and the just hanging out part and uh it's it's always sort of beautiful there's an arc to it it ends up if it starts off a little like uh god things and then you know you have dinner and you get some laughs going you get a

little you know uh you know some some uh thoughts going and some ideas going just in conversation and then you kind of then we took a like a nice long 20 30 block walk and kind of eased into a the friendship part. And then just, you know, spending time together and talking it through, but over the three or four hours, you know, it all came together that, you know, there's no editing with that. You know, you can't, uh, you can't go back and cut things or add things, but, uh, but sometimes to really connect with somebody, take some time and, you know, and, and, uh, you know, hang in there and you wait for it to happen. If the relationship is important to you,

it's just something you gotta, you gotta do, you gotta do. And it doesn't get any easier. The longer time you spend, uh, not talking to somebody. So stay in touch with the people you love if possible. And, you know, have those nice long conversations. That's another little public service announcement for me because it's worth it. That's another little public service announcement from me because it's worth it. It's worth it. Those things are important. Life goes by.

Things seem daunting. Everything gets filled up. You get busy. You get distracted. All of a sudden, your time is being eaten by any number of things. Make sure you take time to really get in and connect with the people that are important. That's what makes life good.

There are things that make it good. It's not just like, oh, I gotta, and then I'm gonna, and then like, oh my God, what happened? Is this gonna, why I gotta be the thing? And I don't know if I can do that. Oh, what's on for later today? Where do I gotta be tomorrow?

Why is that person calling me? Yeah, shut it down. Take some time. Connect with some friends. Today's Thursday, so tomorrow I'm going to be in Philly. I think there's a few tickets for the Philly show. It's tomorrow night, May 12th at the Miriam Theater. I think there might be a few tickets for that. That's my second to my last date of this tour, which may be the final tour for a while and then on saturday may 13th i'm going to be down at the warner theater in the heart of the beast washington dc i wonder how that place feels now that you know things are are shifting but i

believe that show is pretty close to selling out at the warner theater if you want tickets for either of these shows you can go to wtfpod.com slash tour and go there's direct links for you there to go to the place that has the tickets and on June 3rd the next live appearance is book con also there's a a link for that at wtfpod.com slash tour that's me and Brendan Brendan McDonald my producer and business partner are going to be down there doing a thing for the book waiting for the punch which is very exciting the more i think about that book the more excited i am for you guys to get your hands on it you can pre-order it you can get that link too i believe at the website under book very He's very clever. Waiting for the punch. Yeah, you can pre-order the book.

And I'll tell you, man, it's like, it's so wild to read what people say. And it's just one of those books that you can pick up anywhere, you know, and just get into, you know, open it up anywhere and kind of engage with it. Sort of like conversation, but very proud of it and very excited to get it into your hands. So what else is happening next week? I'm going to be shooting another episode of Joe Swamberg's Easy in Chicago. And then I think finally I get to relax as much as possible in the current world that we live in. It's been a long run between the tour of the podcast, It's been a long run between the tour of the podcast, Glow, the, you know, shooting the special, everything else.

I really learned. I got to stop for a minute. I'm not going to stop doing this, but I've got to figure out how to take a breath because my body and my mind are wearing down. I'm certainly not complaining. I'm excited to be busy. But, you know, I feel beat up, folks. I feel beat up. So I'm on the plane, and I'm about to sit down in my seat.

I'm coming from L.A. to New York, and who gets on the plane? Werner Herzog. Now, I thought I had a pretty good conversation with Werner Herzog, and a lot of times when I talk to people, even though it's for a nice long time, whatever my emotional connection in that hour or hour and a half or however long I spend with them is uniquely mine. It does not necessarily mean it's theirs or anything else. And a lot of times I run into them. I don't have any real expectations. I don't assume that we're friends. Some people I know and I see and I think I could be friends with, but generally I don't socialize with people I meet on the podcast. But, you know, Werner Herzog, that was a big deal. That was a big day.

And, you know, I felt like I had some familiarity with the guy that I could at least, you know, say hello. So, you know, he's getting on behind me and I'm about to sit down and I go, Mr. Herzog, how are you? And he looked at me like he had no fucking idea who I was at all. But yeah, I think that's the way he looks. And I go, it's, it's me, Mark. You know, we talked in my garage. He's like, yeah, yes, yes.

Okay. You know, and, and I'm like, uh, okay. Yeah. He's like, hi. And he just literally gave not a fuck, not one fuck. And you know, I wasn't hurt. I wasn't surprised. I'd actually be surprised if Werner Herzog didn't do that.

But there was part of me that I'm like, God, does he even remember that we talked? Is it, you know, and oh my God. And then it was just, it was, it was kind of funny. I found it funny. I was not insulted. I was sort of happy that that's the way he responded. And, you know, and then I thought like, okay, so he's sitting a couple of seats behind me. There's Werner Herzog.

You know, what if the plane goes down? Would he be narrating it in his mind? The plane is crashing. They're screaming all around me. Smoke is filling the cabin i realize now i know the man who said hello to me it is of no consequence now i do a terrible verner herzog and i'm not good at impressions but uh i thought it was a good idea that was a funny idea that maybe he would remember me in that flat presentation i'm not going to explain the fucking joke folks so kevin

bacon uh is on the show he's in this new series called i love dick which i watched like three or four of and i thought were it was again not unlike a lot of shows now it's like a completely surprising world that you would never know about or it's already believe it even exists now it's like a completely surprising world that you would never know about or it's already believe it even exists but it's kind of an interesting show katherine hawn is fucking genius in it griffin dunn also great and kevin is great it's it's produced executive produced by jill soloway uh premieres tomorrow friday may 12th uh again on amazon it's an amazon series and this is um this is me and kevin bacon back in the Tomorrow, Friday, May 12th. Again, on Amazon. It's an Amazon series. And this is me and Kevin Bacon back in the... You can get anything you need with Uber Eats.

Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here? You'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. So what, how's it going? It's going pretty well. Yeah, you don't live out here though. I finally, a few years ago, broke down and got a little place out here. You did?

Yeah, so my wife and I were kind of like very committed L.A. haters. Yeah, sure. My wife and I were kind of like very committed L.A. haters. Yeah, sure. And, you know, I think so often we kind of defined ourselves with this New York kind of thing. And she grew up in New York. I grew up in Philly, but I moved to New York when I was a kid, when I was like 17. So I definitely felt more connected to that. Sure. sure and um you know the reason uh i guess was kind of complicated but i think part part was

sort of like this um kind of love hate thing that i have with this with with the business and with the city and all that kind of stuff you know yeah sure but uh she was on a television show for seven years so for seven years straight yeah six months of the year, some combination of the two of us was living either in a hotel or a rented house. Right. And eventually, at the very last year of her show, or I guess it was eight years now, I forget about it, we stopped and said, you know, I think we're really going to miss this neighborhood. And we were living in this great, funky house. house. You'd appreciate this around here. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, uh, this house, uh, was, um, built, I think in the, um, in the twenties and it's, uh, owned by a Italian rock star. He's like the, he was like the Bruce Springsteen of Italy. And he bought this house

as an investment and rents it out. But what's super cool about it is that there was an old speakeasy that was built into the basement of the house. Yeah, yeah. And they turned it into a recording studio. Uh-huh. So it's like this fantastic...

And you do the music. Yeah. Is it usable? Oh, it's fantastic. So we rented that house and then moved up the street. And, you know, I love L.A. now. Oh, no. I've completely turned around.

It got you. I think it was, I think it had, I don't really know what it is, growing up or changing my attitude or appreciating a different neighborhood, you know, kind of being like over on this side of town. And I don't know. Now I'm like, I'm crazy about it. And frankly, I think my wife is kind of digging on it more than New York. I don't know if I'm quite there yet. That's one of the things that I mean,

maybe you're a sociable person, but out here, one of the things, it's easy to get sort of isolated because you do have to drive. Like everything, everything's diminished by the idea that's sort of like now we got to go their house yeah on the west side yes fuck no i know i know i'm the same way i'm the same way i'm like can't we meet him halfway yeah well a lot of times we

have those negotiations with our friends oh yeah yeah we're like let's let's let's look at the map and see there's got to be a restaurant somewhere between us but the thing is is that they always they always have it worse because they've got to they've got to get it on the other side of the 405 yeah i can't i i try to avoid the west side entirely and i hear it's nice i can't i don't understand it i don't do it so it's weird i think we i have this thing where a connection like i think you and I were on a gig in DC, but you were playing in the band with your brother. I don't remember what it was for, but I think I did stand up and you did that.

You guys closed it out, but I didn't talk to you. Okay. But like the, I have this weird connection. I think your brother, the guitar player, his name is,

is it Michael? Michael was a teacher at a camp I went to. Lighthouse Arts and Music Camp in Pottsville, Pennsylvania. Is that possible? I don't think he was there when I was there because he was like their big alumni and he came back and he played. Like Jim Croce also, think taught there well I know that he had played at a camp in PA yeah but it was called Charlestown Playhouse so I don't know if it I don't know if at the lighthouse when at Pottsville but it's certainly

possible I'll have to ask him well yeah I think he was actually like a teacher there well that that was the impression I got there I might have forgotten about that but I mean he's ten years older than me so sometimes there's there's things in his life that I don't remember well you could have been ten you could have done it in his 20s yeah right exactly yeah exactly so so that's that's that's fast I'll ask about it's weird man because I remember him coming up and playing it was like that's Kevin Bacon's brother which has to be at some point sort of the bane of all right his popularity but he's been playing folk music forever right oh yeah yeah yeah

he he's never done anything other than than play music and now uh he's a composer uh doing a lot of movie stuff does a lot of movie stuff and a lot of documentaries and he also is a professor now. Oh. So he's teaching composing and film score and stuff like that. So he's, besides the band, he's got a whole lot of other, you know. He made the shift. He was like, I got to make a living. Yeah. Well, it's interesting, you know, when you talk about what we do, you know, a lot of people have done other kinds of gigs in their life.

You know, I was a, you know, I worked in a warehouse and then I in a warehouse, and then I was a busboy, and then I was a waiter. I had a lot of jobs. My brother's never done anything other than make music and make a living at making music, which is really like when I think about that, that's just kind of such an accomplishment. It's crazy life.

I'm glad that he's sort of evolved into these other avenues with it. You know what I mean? Because sometimes if you're just hammering away, playing the music

and things don't, and you don't, like I had that moment where you get to a certain point in your life and things aren't working out and you don't know what are you going

to fucking do? Yeah, I know. It's like, you know, like I can't, what am I going to reenter the workforce at 45?

Yeah. The last job I had was like, you know, I was a grill cook. Yeah. You know, It's like, you know, like I can't, what am I gonna reenter the workforce at 45? Yeah. The last job I had was like, you know, I was a grill cook. Yeah. You know, so like, yeah, maybe a restaurant. Yeah. Big gap in the resume.

No, I know, it's, it's, it's. But when did you work? As a, well, when I was, got out of high, I got out of high school, I had a, I had a high school where I, if I did enough kind of gathering of credits, sort of like, it was, it was set up more kind of like a college. Yeah.

I could graduate early, so I got out half a year early, and then I was still down in Philly, and I was working packing and shipping medical books. And then it was the summer of 1976, and Philadelphia was getting excited about having the Bicentennial. Yeah. And I joined up with this kind of avant-garde theater group. And keep in mind, I was literally like 17 years old.

Right. And they let me in, and we were going to create sort of like a musical theater thing for this bicentennial that was going to be. And, of course, I was really excited because here were these older actors and a lot of them were beautiful women. They were probably 20. Right. But I thought of them as like older, kind of established people. And we would have these rehearsals

where we would sort of like do theater games and, you know, trust exercises and, you know, pretend that you're an eggplant and all that kind of stuff. And it didn't really seem to be going anywhere. And I was simultaneously working in this warehouse to make some money. And I hadn't applied to college

because I really didn't want to go to college because I was so clear on the fact that I wanted to make some money. And I hadn't applied to college because I really didn't want to go to college because I was so clear on the fact that I wanted to be an actor. And all of a sudden, about a couple of months before the bicentennial, I quit. You quit? Yeah, I quit. I mean, I was just such a cocky little shit.

I was like, I can't, I'm not gonna to do this. I'm going to go to New York. Well, what was the plan for the big performance? Was it a guerrilla performance? with this thing before but I just said you know man I gotta get I gotta get to New York you know I love Philly but but New York was like a giant magnet that was just kind of right pulling me up that's where it happened and so when I got there that's when I got a job as a busboy but did you do that when did you start doing acting I mean you come from a huge family right oh yeah I'm the youngest of six but I don't remember ever not being an actor, even before I knew what an actor was.

Right, but did you do it in high school? Did you do plays and do that? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I did everything I possibly could. I did everything I could. I did every single play. We didn't have much theater in my school, but then I would work.

On the weekends, I apprenticed at a theater called the Manning street actors theater yeah and i would literally sweep the stage and you know anything i could do to hang around the right so it was words right sure yeah yeah so there was a community theater uh there was always people around it had a full uh yeah you know crew all the time sure sure there were a couple of community theaters um in in philly uh manning street was a little bit more of a professional theater. I obviously wasn't getting paid, but there were people who were getting paid.

Did you see big shows there? Were there, did you get an opportunity to watch? No, I didn't really go to the theater that much. I really didn't. My parents didn't really take me, and I didn't really have the money and I would go to the movies. I started going to the movies as soon as I could. It was that thing where all the good movies were R, let's face it, in the 70s.

All the good stuff from Coppola. Ashby and Scorsese. De Palma. De Palma, yeah. That was all the good stuff. Scorsese De Palma De Palma yeah

that was all the good stuff and they were all we would have to you know either pretend to be older than we were you know

just try to figure it out and I was not an old looking guy so that was hard but I almost sometimes had a hard time

watching movies because especially when I was a little boy because it was almost as though I wanted to get home and play that part like it was so hard for me not to be because it was almost as though I wanted to get home and play that part. Like, it was so hard for me not to be in it. Do you know what I mean?

To, like, look at it and not be a cowboy or not be, you know, whatever, an astroman or fireman, you know. So, like, I would come home and just dress up as that thing and start pretending to be that thing. So that's what I mean. You had an active fantasy life. I did. I had a very active fantasy life. I did. A very active fantasy life.

And I really always wanted to be another character. Is that because were you, I have to imagine being the youngest of six kids, your parents were probably like, ugh. Totally. Well, they had five. They had five kids and then eight years later I was born. So you do the math there's no way they wanted to have another child is that a catholic thing no they're not catholic

no no no just accident just an accident yeah and you know my mother kind of denied it and i was like please come on and then she eventually came around to calling you know me a happy happy accident or something like that but but you know uh so everyone was out of the house by the time they were they were but even when i was very yeah yeah by the time i was 10 they were all gone but even when i was really really young i can remember walking into a room and just wanting people to look at me and and figuring out some way to be entertaining. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah.

That was like a very, very strong drive. But that sort of makes sense to be in an emotional environment where they just brought up five kids. Like you must have on some level felt like, you know, where's mine? Where's my, where's the attention? No. No? I didn't. Oh, good.

It was awesome. It was. I was such an independent kid. And look, I don't know if that's like nature nurture, right? Right didn't. Oh, good. It was awesome. I was such an independent kid. And look, I don't know if that's like nature nurture, right? Maybe they weren't giving me the attention, so I had to become that person. Sure, sure. Maybe I naturally came out that way. That I don't know.

But I often say that when I left home, and I'm not sure they noticed that I had split. On the other hand, they were incredibly supportive of me doing what I wanted to do. Nobody ever said, don't you need something to fall back on? Oh, really? Yeah, they were very supportive. And your dad was like, what was his game? My dad was a city planner of Philadelphia for many, many, many years. Oh, man. planner of philadelphia for many many many years oh man and um he was actually uh kind of kind of an important person because he he he was at the time when um there was urban sprawl not urban

sprawl so much as a white flight a white flight white flight and suburbs were becoming the place to be. Right, and it just took all the blood out of downtown. Yes, and his life's battle was to bring life back to cities. And they did it. They did it in Philly. Philly's like one of those places where I go, and I'm like, this is great, because there's definitely a defined type. Philly is a place.

Yes. It's like I know I go there there's a couple of sandwiches I like I know that basically the type of dudes I'm gonna run into sure yeah but uh but like that whole downtown area has been you know reborn sure and your dad was sort of the beginning of that evolution he was although I I think that yeah no he no, he definitely was. And, you know, by the time he, in some ways, some things were more successful than others, but it was his, it ran through his veins. And just cities in general.

I mean, he was obsessed with all cities. Was he saddened that they were dying? Yes. Because it was so vital in his mind? He was. He was. And the older he got, the more sort of like impassioned he got. Yeah, yeah.

And he didn't get less passionate. He got more passionate and more kind of like eccentric and stuff. I mean, I'll give you an example. Long after he retired, in fact, I think he was about 92. Wow, he lived for a while, huh? Yeah, he lived until he was 94,, I think he was about 92. Wow, he lived for a while, huh? Yeah, he lived until he was 94, but I think he was about 92 or 90. There was a park in Philly called Love Park. Yeah.

And it's called Love Park because it has that L-O-V-E. Oh, the sculpture. Sculpture there, right? And it became a mecca for skateboarders, skaters. Yeah. Loved it because they could grind on all these built-in things and basically they were kind of like the only ones who were using it uh-huh and the city came to them and said you can't you know you're you're fucking up all the all the

furniture and all the all the you know you know, everything is like being destroyed. So we have to kick all the skaters out of Love Park. And my father- There's no love there. There's no love there, right. So it became illegal, okay, to be on a skateboard in Love Park. Yeah. He went down and got on a skateboard, tried to get arrested.

At 92? Yeah. arrested at 92 yeah they put a they put a um uh uh you know helmet on him and had a couple of people hold him and like rolled him around on a skateboard i think there's actual video of it yeah and i don't think the cops actually arrested him but that was his dream because he so he actually at that age believe it or not i'll run into skaters that'll say, oh, your dad was the music. Dude, your dad was such a hero for us, man. And I think they actually ended up having like a, not having anything to do with him, but I think there's actually a Love Park video game or something like that.

Oh, yeah. So it's like that kind of stuff. A skateboard video game? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. People using spaces, public spaces, was really, really important to him. So that's, and so are all your sibs still around?

Yeah, yeah. And did any of the other ones other than your brother Michael go into show business? No. Did they go into city work? Yeah, some are in city work and one is an events planner, another works for Arts Council in Vermont and

another is in the private sector. know they're in a whole bunch of other stuff and and we're very you know very close really that's great yeah yeah um we uh we do the big family thing we do we have a giant um Thanksgiving we don't do Christmas but we do a giant Thanksgiving well that's nice it's amazing we do it at our house in in New York at our apartment and everyone's got kids so there's like 50 people there it's about yeah it's usually about between 40 and 50 oh yeah because my wife has a big family too you know she's got like a brady bunch kind of family right and she's like um deep new york they're all around right yeah

yeah it's it's it's crazy it's it's my favorite it's my favorite holiday i mean because what's wrong with eating and giving thanks? No, nothing. And sometimes, once a year, you see everybody, it's good. It's awesome. For most people, that's like, just to write them out. Then we got that day or two, and then we're out. So when you started the acting, because it's weird that when you were coming over, my memory of you is pretty entrenched. You're part of my cultural upbringing. were coming over like my memory of you is is pretty you know entrenched like you know you're

part of my cultural uh you know upbringing you know kevin bacon was sort of always there somehow but when you started i mean really young going to new york so did you did you train or were you just driven by cockiness how did it how did it work i did train um with who i went to the circle in the square uh theater school first as a um their summer program, which was really for high school age kids. And then I asked them if I could audition for their winter thing. It was a two-year program. Yeah. And they said, you're too young.

And I said, can I please just audition? And I got into that. And so I was going to school there, working as a waiter. At Circle in the Square. Yeah so I was going to school there, working as a waiter. At Circle in the Square. Yeah, I was going to Circle in the Square and working as a waiter or a busboy, depending on which place I was at,

at night and trying to learn as much as I could and try to make a living. Well, from those days, what things did you learn then that you still use? Yeah, you know, it's funny because I was in school because I kind of felt like I needed to be in school. Yeah. But on the other hand,

I also had this sort of attitude that there was nobody that could teach me anything. Yeah. You know, I was so... Such a combination of confidence for absolutely no reason and also terrified. You know, my- Yeah, that's the artist's line. That's the edge we go on.

Right. Paralyzing fear and weird cockiness. Exactly. And I feel like you need to have that kind of combination of that. It's like the emperor's new clothes, right? You're going to be exposed for being a fraud, but in order to not be exposed for being a fraud, you've got to pretend like you know what the fuck you're doing.

And I didn't, while I was in school, I often felt like I don't really know why we're doing this and I don't know why this teacher is saying this. And it was kind of more about me trying to do well or do better or get compliments or something like that. But the truth is, is that now and, you know, for many years, I'll go back and i'll think about something that i was taught oh yeah and i'll go they were absolutely right like that was like if i just listened to that you know what i mean like like if i left myself a little everyone's got their journey right yeah you know it doesn't really matter it's worked out okay but if i left my myself open to the fact that there were people who could teach me

not just about acting but also about like the business yeah like you know i had an agent um who uh you know uh just passed recently and and he was you know my first agent and you know stuck with me for years and years and years but it's like i never let him guide me in a weird sort of way did he offer yeah sure yeah yeah and i was just oh i got this i'm not gonna do that i'm gonna do this i'm not gonna do that you know what i mean and and you know really i think that you it's a if i could tell you know uh the younger me something that's what i would say it's like dude you know just people know shit like right from being having been around and seen things hard to trust people though you know it's hard to trust people in the sense that you don't know especially in this business whether someone's

coming at you for their own benefit or you know actually thinking about your best interest but did you have a mentor or do you able to look at other comics and say, or listen to their advice? Well, with comedy, it's a little easier. You sort of like, what is the tone? It's all you up there. So you're in a narrow context. So how are you going to use that thing?

You can look up to people and like people's comedy So, you know, you're in a narrow context. So how are you going to use that thing? You know, you can look up to people and like people's comedy and aspire to honesty or one line, whatever it's going to be. So it's a little more of a gypsy sort of approach. But you still have to be yourself. Well, yeah, you want. That's ultimately what I wanted to get at. But, you know, in terms of business, I didn't understand show business until a few years ago. I mean, I'm in my garage, dude.

Like, you know, I was a stubborn asshole. And I never understood that, you know, maybe it's good to be diplomatic and acknowledge that, you know, that assistant's going to be the king of Hollywood at some point. That people hold grudges. And that, you know, you can fuck yourself real easy. You know, just by being cocky. I learned that. But fortunately, I landed on my feet somewhat. Sure did. But I don't know.

I believe that people who act, there's a lot of natural talent there. I mean, either you can do it or you can't on some level. I mean, there's a lot that you can't explain, right? Yeah. I mean, I think that's true. I think that's true, but I also think you can get better. I mean, when I look at, which I really don't because it makes me so nuts.

It does? Yeah, to look at early work, I mean, I just go, oh, fuck. Well, how'd the first role come? I mean, I remember you as, what was it, Fenwick? I remember Fenwick. Animal House was the first movie that I ever did. Right. And it wasn't my first role because I was very, very into theater.

And although I ended up on soap operas, but that was actually after Animal House. What kind of theater were you doing? Oh, I did an off-Broadway regional theater. Weird shit? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was thinking about the other day about research, you know, how you throw yourself out. I was talking to John Lithgow in an interview

about the research that both of us had done to do those parts in Footloose. I was thinking about a play that I did called 40 Deuce, which was probably back in the late 70s. 40 Deuce, which was probably back in the late 70s. I was playing a male prostitute drug dealer. In those days, they called him a chicken. Yeah. And there was a bar in an area in Times Square where these young boys would get off the bus and go,

and they would meet these Johns at this bar. The terminal bar? It was actually called, I think it was called the Haymarket. Yeah. And I spent like a lot of time being that, now I'd never turned a trick. Right. But when I think back on that, first off, I was able to do that kind of research. And you were like 20?

No, no, no, no, no, like 18. Uh-huh. You know? Yeah. Yeah, no, no, no, like 18. Uh-huh. You know? Yeah. Yeah, like 18 or 19, I would think. Then there was 53rd Street where at night these guys would cruise and I would go down there and walk around. And, you know, like it was so interesting to be in a situation where nobody knows who you are, obviously.

It's something that I couldn't really do now. Right. And to just look at a different side of life that's not your experience. And it's a little menacing. It was menacing. Oh, yeah. It definitely was. It definitely was.

So you're out there presenting yourself as meat. Yes. And you're getting all that weird juice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But those experiences were incredibly rich and helpful too, in terms of just playing the part. It did help. Oh yeah, for sure, for sure.

So that's the kind of theater, to answer your question, that I was doing. Down and dirty and very, very kind of strong character kinds of parts. But you took it on yourself to, like research is an important part of your trip. Yeah, yeah. You know, in order to build the guy. Yeah. Yeah.

And that sticks. That still happens. Yeah, yeah. And then you go, well, what good did it actually do and you don't really know it's very hard to look at the performance and go oh i got that from doing that sure you know what i was talking to um uh john let's go about was was when i got the part in footloose i was i was uh 23 i think or 24 and i was supposed to be playing a 17 year old high school student yeah and i was afraid that i wasn't i was like how can anybody think of me as a 17-year-old? So I checked myself into the high school in Utah where we were shooting as a student that had just moved to town.

So basically, with the help of the high school principal and the guidance counselor, I was able to create for a day that experience that the character in the movie was going through. Now, none of the students knew and none of the teachers knew. Yeah. And that was, for instance, like very, very informative. How they treat you. Yeah, well, they treat me like shit. I mean, the thing is that, here's the thing, is that I had this idea that if I'm from a big city, right,

and streetwise or whatever, if I go to a small town, I'm going to be a badass. Like, I'm not going to, you know, these- Got to make your mark. Yeah. Like these, you know, farm boys- Cow pokes. Yeah. They're not going to, you know.

The second I got there, I was like, oh, shit. I am so out of my element. And it was very much like the movie people making fun of me making fun of what i wore in one day of my in one day my hair girls giggling one guy coming up to me taking me under his wing um showing me the ropes yeah uh teachers not being very nice to me i mean like it was like a it was amazing, like, microcosm of what that movie was. And it's also, I guess, amazing how well-written the thing was because it nailed it, right?

It did. It did, although I have to say I did change a few things based on that experience. Not much, but, I mean, just little kind of details. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Well, I mean, this is funny. I just, this popped into my head.

I'll give you an example. Yeah. Well, I mean, this is funny. I just popped into my head. I'll give you an example. Yeah. Is that this is during the time of that look. You probably know where you had skinny ties and it was like men at work. New wave. Right. New wave. And I was a really big police fan. Yeah, yeah.

Sure. And that whole thing. And in the script originally, it's the mother says to me, shouldn't you wear a tie and a jacket if you're going to the first day of school? And I say, mom, I'm not going to wear a tie. And what I realized is that a tie, a skinny tie was going to be way weirder

than what she was suggesting. So we switched it around. So I'm putting a tie on. Yeah. And she's like, are you really going to wear that tie? And when I show up at this school, the guys are in jeans and, you know, like. High school. Yeah.

Yeah. And plaid shirts and stuff. Yeah. And here I am with like a kind of a jacket and a green tie. And it's like, I'm way more out of, you know. I remember when that happened in high school. Right. Because it's like, I'm way more out of, you know. I remember when that happened in high school. Because I'm like, I'm 53. So I was in high school when the new wave thing took hold.

Everybody's wearing buttons, thin ties. Yeah. The knack, my Sharona. Yeah, there you go. That's what turned it, I think. That's right. Well, that's wild, man. But wait, let's go back.

Because Animal House is pretty important. Well, they sent the casting director to the school. Yeah. didn't have an agent to the circle rep to circle in the square circle in the square yeah and the casting director said to the school do you have any kids that might work as like a preppy um um college freshman yeah an asshole an asshole yeah yeah who's your preppy who's your preppy who's your who's your preppy who's your best do you have a preppy asshole here they're like yes we do um step step right this way yeah so they sent me over and i had this meeting basically with the casting director there was really very little for me to read i mean i don't know if i had a lot of lines right i mean it did have a couple lines but not a

lot and then um they sent me back to meet with uh john landis who was the director and he said i want you to make us make us make a face like you're smarmy smarmy i want to see if i smarmy and i i literally had no idea what Smarmy meant, but it's kind of an onomatopoeia, you know what I mean? So I just kind of went, you know, sorry, it's radio. I made a face. And he was like, yeah, yeah, that's it, I love it. Yeah, yeah.

And so then I got a call back, and then the guy just called me up and said, you got to get on a plane like, you know, in a couple of weeks. And that face came in useful. I remember that face. It was horrible. Yeah. Just absolutely awful. Yeah. But yes, it did come in.

Like that one note, it kind of informed that whole character. It did. It absolutely did. It absolutely did. that whole character it did it absolutely did it absolutely did and then in you know speaking of kind of research what was interesting about the animal house situation was that first off i mean talk about an amazing kind of like oh my god here i am i'm in a movie this is so fucking right i mean i flew to oregon and and i'd never been i'd hardly ever been on a plane, but I'd definitely never been in first class. Um, and everything about it was just like crazy, crazy cool. Um, but Landis kind of created a situation, I think on purpose where he didn't, he wanted to bring the animal

house, the cool guys, right. Out early and have them sort of bond which they did yeah they went to a frat party they got into fistfights you know they got drunk they you know they had like a really bonding thing and wanted to kind of separate the rest of us the losers you know the assholes yeah from the cool people and what actually happened was that actually happened. And they really wouldn't hang out with me. And that was difficult for me. Like Belushi and Matheson. You know, John was in a different kind of category, honestly, because he was flying back and forth for Saturday Night Live.

Right. And he had a house and he wasn't staying in the same hotel as the rest of us. Yeah. You know, but everybody else, I'll tell you, this is an absolute true story. It's funny.

I was seeing this waitress at the hotel. Yeah. And these guys would have parties all the time in one of the guys' rooms. The cool guys?

Yeah, the cool guys. In fact, they took an upright piano and wheeled it across the parking lot. I don't know where they got it from, like a conference room or something like that, and stuck it in one of their rooms. So they would have, like, there were musicians there. They would play. I think Bruce McGill played the piano, and it was like always this amazing fucking party going on that i was never invited to yeah and so this waitress uh says to me one night

listen um you should know that the fbi is watching uh the the cast and the company and the hotel and this entire shoot and they know all about you know the drugs and they company and the hotel and this entire shoot. And they know all about, you know, the drugs and they know all about everything that's going on. And you should just know that. You know, she had the, I don't know how she knows about the FBI, but I was, you know, at that moment high enough to be like super paranoid. Right. I was, you know, at that moment, high enough to be like super paranoid.

Right. So I thought that a good way in would be to tell these guys that was going on. Right. That I would be sort of like a hero. Yeah. Right? Because then everybody would like turn the music down or whatever, just be cool. You know what I mean mean so i called up and

they're having a party down there and and i called up i think it was bruce mcgill's room and i'm like uh hey listen uh it's it's kevin uh kevin bacon i'm the guy that plays that you know yeah and listen uh uh the fbi i just want you to know because i have a pretty good authority that the fbi has been in town and they're like watching everything and watching you guys and watching the hotel. I heard the music going on in the background. He's like, fuck you, slams the phone down.

Nothing ever happened. Nothing ever happened. You didn't get the confirmation or anything. The waitress just had some inside info. So that movie was huge. And then what happens after that? I didn't work for a really, I went back to waiting tables. Oh, my God.

Yeah, I went back to waiting tables, and I've told this story before, but I had to ask for the night off to go to premiere of Animal House. I had that night off from the restaurant. My boss said, yeah, sure, it's your big premiere. Right. Yeah, there you go. Go ahead, but make sure you're back tomorrow. Yeah, well, premiere. Right. Yeah, there you go. Go ahead, but make sure you're back tomorrow. Yeah, well, exactly.

Right. And it was really, really terrible because I got down there. I took the subway down to Times Square, where the theater was, and there was a red rope, but I was on the other side of the red rope, and I saw the cast all arriving. So they had a tier, I of kind of tickets and yeah and you know and those guys i look of course i mean i've just had a small part you know but they were like the animal house and like you know the guys and uh so like here i am at my big hollywood premiere and i'm like watching it sort of like from a distance and And I get down to the seats, and I don't have the right seat to get past the line

where the good seats are. Then I get down to the party, which was down at the Village Gate. And I didn't have the ticket to get into the VIP. So they were still icing you, the cool kids. Yeah, the cool kids were icing me, exactly. And I had this idea that because I was in the movie, I was going to be beating women off with a stick.

Sure. Because everyone would recognize me and I was now- The asshole that all the women want to be with, right? Exactly. That guy. Yeah. They so didn't want to be with me, nor did they. I remember talking to a girl and trying to convince her that I was actually even in the movie.

Yeah. And I got so depressed that I went back to the restaurant and just hung out with my friends at the Allstate Cafe. What a sad premiere story. Isn't that just tragic? And then Levinson cast you. Like, did you go back to soap operas and shit? I did, yeah. Then I went on the soaps.

Yeah, I was on the Search for Tomorrow and the Guiding Light. No, not Search for Tomorrow. Yeah, Search for Tomorrow. Yeah. And the Guiding Light. soaps yeah i was on the search for tomorrow and the guiding light no not search for tomorrow uh yeah search for tomorrow yeah and uh the guiding light and i was doing theater and um but you were working all that stuff adds up right it all adds up i mean doing soap operas whatever that's like great uh believe me i i i i i started working uh yeah pretty quick i mean relatively quick i mean i'd you know sometimes i would run out of money, so I'd have to go back to waiting tables. And I had a boss that was, like, really, like, cool about that.

And probably, I'd say three times, I said, I'm done. Yeah. This is it. Yeah. And then I'd have to go back. Because I remember, like, when I saw,, like Diner was a huge movie for me. I'm so glad. Yeah, I'm assuming it was a huge movie for you.

It was a huge movie and amazing, amazing memories of making something. I mean, sometimes we'll get together, like I'll see one of the guys, you know, Riser I still see, or I'll run into Danny or Timmy or whatever. And we have had these at times these kind of uh you know almost kind of like reunions with barry and stuff barry levinson and uh all the like there's more stories for us packed into that seven week shoot

or whatever it was then then you know a hundred other movies really it was just a it was just an like a really fun fun intense and uh interesting kind of time for all of us i think in in the sense that you were all young actors and and this was like uh was it a loose environment in the in that you all really got to know each other and you all sort of hungry and excited? Yes, yes. And none of us were, some of us had been working, but none of us were stars, except I would say maybe for Mickey, who was just kind of like exploding based on the thing that he had done in body heat of the bomb guy yeah yeah but we were uh in this hotel in baltimore um just guys single guys hanging out and and what was interesting was that if you look at the movie, it's almost kind of random who happens to be together at any given time.

Sometimes there's three guys together. Sometimes there's two. You know what I mean? It's kind of not all that well planned out in terms of that. But the guys that were together would be hanging out on the set together having a fun time. And the guys that weren't at work that day would go and hang out and do something else. So there was this kind of thing

where all of our different relationships were all sort of... Genuine? Yeah, and they all sort of bounced off each other in interesting ways. And it was also a deal where Barry Levinson did kind of the same thing about bringing us down there early for what he called rehearsal, but it was really just a bonding kind of session. Yeah, it seemed like there was a lot of authentic sort of interaction.

Like he was able to honor each of your personalities. There was. Within the character. Like it really, like that was the first time I was like, when I saw Paul reiser i thought he was hilarious and i had not really seen him do comedy and i knew him like from that movie and when i was in college i don't remember when that movie come out uh so i i just my first year of college and i and i saw that and i and i thought he was hilarious and all you guys were great but then i went to the comic strip and he was there just sitting there and that's when i asked him i I said, I want to do comedy.

How do I do it? No kidding. Yeah. Because of Diner. And he was like, I don't know. You just do it. Right. That's what I tell people.

It's like, you spend your life afraid. Just get it out of your system. See if you like it. Yeah. Well, Reiser was amazing because he didn't really on paper have much of a part. Right. Like when we auditioned for Diner, you would go in and pick one of the parts to read. I wanted to either play Boogie because he was cool, the part that Mickey played.

Yeah. Or the part that Tim Daly played because he was romantic. So I was like, either I want to be cool or I want to get the girl. I read both of those. Barry went, why don't you read Fenwick? I was like, Fenwick? I don't know Fenwick. Is there anything there?

I didn't say that, but I was disappointed, frankly, that I had gotten Fenwick because I thought the other parts were better and flashier and more interesting. And he was such a reactive kind of character. But when Reiser got down there, he almost had no part. Yeah all of a sudden we would get into these like rehearsal situations and he just fucking starts improvising and barry's like that's

so funny i love that i'm not comfortable with the word nuance i'm not yeah exactly right exactly you know are you gonna eat that or whatever right Right. Because he's brilliant with that. Yeah, yeah. And now I see this guy's, like, part start to get bigger and bigger and bigger. I'm like, this fucking guy? Jesus. Reiser's eating the movie. He's eating the movie. Well, you know, I made a choice when I realized that I didn't consider myself as a good improviser. Right.

I didn't consider myself as a good improviser. Right. And I was intimidated by Paul's skill. But even by all of them, you know what I mean? They were all really good at that. Danny and Timmy and Mickey and Steve. Steve, you know, would just kind of say crazy shit and it was just fucking funny and Barry would love it. So I was very intimidated by that.

And I literally made a choice that I needed to not be the guy that comes up with the funny thing to say. That I'm the guy that sits there and reacts to what everybody else is saying. Important part. Yeah, because in any kind of dynamic you know if you have a bunch of friends that you know uh hang out yeah there's always one guy that's like the wise ass and you know there's other guys that just sit there and laugh sure you know what you know what i mean so so that was kind of like what i uh what what i chose and i think that ultimately it it it it worked out better well yeah and your character is really, out of all of them, the most troubled character.

He is. He's a mess. What did you make decisions about your career at that point? Because you never stopped working, but what were some of the challenges of being Kevin Bacon at that point as an actor? There were a lot of challenges, both professionally and personally, because I had a real difficult time with the kind of pop star aspect of it. Of Footloose? Yeah, of that super, super kind of pop star. Kids loved it. Yeah, and it's exactly what I didn't want to be.

I so desperately, from the time I first set foot, even before I got to New York, wanted to be a serious actor, whatever the hell that means. That's like what I wanted to do. I wanted to do theater. You know, I wanted to be... De Niro. De Niro and Meryl Streep and Dustin and John Voight. Respected.

Yeah, work with Cassavetes. You know what I mean? This was the stuff. Or, or Kevin Kline. And now I was a pop star. Almost, it's like the next level, it's just above child actor. Exactly, exactly. And everything that I had done up to that point was sort of, nobody knew it. You know what I mean?

to that point was sort of nobody knew it. You know what I mean? Right. Doing an off-off Broadway play is, you feel that it's just as important, but nobody fucking knows. Right, right. So it doesn't really. We made a difference tonight. Yeah. For those 12 people. For those 12 people.

Exactly, exactly. And so I had a hard time um i was very resistant of it and again if i had been open to people giving me advice i would have people would have said look embrace it take it as far as you can take it and then just do good work you know what i mean right right just just and and don't and make take your time with the choices that you're going to make but but you used the the sort of star turn capital yeah yeah yeah but what did you choose to do i just made bad movies you know i just made bad choices you know and and sometimes stubbornness oh god i don't know i feel like it was self-sabotage

i think it was a uh i think i think i and again yeah look you know i don't have much of a rear view mirror when i think about these things because i like to look down the road and and and stay moving forward and i also feel like again the process by which you get wherever you get yeah is the right process for you has to be you can't go back and change time and and and so i learned a lot you know from that from making bad choices and i and then i was able to you know kind of turn things back around so so you know it was the right thing for me to go through you know oh the big picture that was a sweet movie that was a good choice yeah nobody saw it um so like i i like the movie i think it's great i love chris guest i had a blast making it you know chris guest i mean has an unbelievable uh ability to take something that is really really

true and really really familiar yeah and make it hilarious and you know when you see some of the characters like the studio executives yeah yeah and right and marty short is my agent yeah yeah you know and you go, can these people, like, did these people actually exist in Hollywood? And then you meet them. And then they're like, it's like exactly the same. I mean, there's things in that movie

that my wife and I still use to this day. I mean, Marty Short has a great line where he says, he's having the first meeting with me. He goes, Nick, I don't know you. I don't know your work, but I think you're very talented. And it's like, to me, that's like, you get that shit all the time. Yeah. Killing you with kindness.

Yeah. Well, it's funny because that was a big sort of shift, like, in, I imagine, in Guest's, you know, kind of vision. Because he went the whole, in completely improvisational direction. I mean, that was a pretty tight movie. Right. That was written. Right. He went straight to mockumentaries.

Yeah. After Spinal Tap. Which are, you know. Although Spinal Tap, I think he did right before the big picture. But that was, he was acting in that really, right? Exactly, yeah. But then like his whole oeuvre

is now these weird kind of like improvised masterpieces. One. Eugene Levy. So brilliant. So then you do like JFK and Few Good Men, Power Pack. That was a good punch, good one-two punch. Well, you had a couple movies in between there. I'm sorry I'm doing this, but like you've done so much.

I have to. That's all right. But like I thought A Few Good Men, like that was a fucking astounding performance. Well, you know what? I thank you for that. Should have won an Oscar, buddy. Oh, thank you.

Yeah. You got a chip on your shoulder about that? About the Oscars? Yeah. I think that to say that, that's a tough question, I'll tell you, to answer. Because on one hand, if you say I really don't care, it's obviously bullshit. Right. And it's going to feel like false humility.

Clearly, you're bullshit. Right. And it's going to feel like false humility. Clearly, you're lying. Yeah. And if you say you care a lot, then you just look like a bitter fucking asshole. And the thing I always remind myself is that, well, first off, of course I would like to even be nominated yeah for anything yeah which doesn't really happen you want something having a couple things here and there but but of course and and part of the reason is that uh it opens up more opportunities yeah right because for instance there's a certain kind of movie that's made for a certain kind of budget that's going to come out in the fall and when those people are putting those

movies together what they want to put on the poster is oscar nominee oscar nominee from this oscar ticket sellers yeah it's like it's like a yeah and it's it's it's it's a selling of the tickets but it's also positioning it in a way that's going to become an oscar movie and especially in this day and age in order for something to break out as serious at all it has to get awards consideration um i think the best way to look at it is sort of like it's something i'd like to experience once in my life i'd like to get one of those there you go there you go yeah yeah or you know but the the truth is is that um when somebody comes up to you and says i loved you know when you say that was important to me, Diner, for instance. You know, that's like, I can really, like, I can put that on an imaginary shelf.

Oh, yeah. Do you know what I mean? Oh, yeah, absolutely. The impact you have on people. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it was a life-changing movie for me, really. Right. Well, good.

But so that means something. That means more, ultimately, the impact you have on people that you don't even know. Like, even this podcast, you know, you get these emails from people like, thank God. And I'm like, well, that's what you do it for. No, I know. I've heard you read some of them. It's very touching, actually. It is?

No, it really is. I get them all the time, man. No, it's... I cry here. I sit here and cry reading my emails. No, it's really... It's very touching, actually. It is? No, it really is. I get them all the time, man. I cry here. I sit here and cry reading my emails. No, it's really, it's very touching. Yeah. But that movie was sort of, that part was so controlled.

And so, like, there's a moment in that movie where, like, when you make choices like that, because whatever decisions you made about your acting career, you've had a very varied career and these characters are very different and even the ones that seem similar are incredibly different. Like the humility of that guy, of that Marine,

was he a Marine? Yeah. Where, you know, he knew that moment where that moment happens, where, you know, Nicholson does that and you're in that position,

that moment where you got to be like, you know exactly what happens next. This guy doesn't go home. Right. And he doesn't seem to know that. Yeah. And then, you know, that moment with Cruz. I mean, that was a somehow or another, there was a lot of humanity in that thing. That was a great run at that point.

And I'll tell you why. Because the first part of that was JFK. Right. And then Murder in the First and Few Good Men and The River Wild. And what was good about that was that I was a character actor, and I realized that that's really what I was. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Because after Footloose, I was trying to get into get into this, whatever it's called, leading man kind of box.

Right. And even back in the 80s, there was more of an instinct in our industry to make somebody into a leading man or make them into a character. But then there's only like nine of those guys. Right, exactly. Right.

Exactly. And I wasn't one of them, ultimately. And you had that moment of realization? Yeah. Well, I had a, it it's you know we talk about um leaving yourself open to um advice yeah i had an agent uh who said to me this is what we need to do and you need to get back to this and you need to stop focusing on uh the size of the part and all that other shit yeah you know, and she sent me to meet Oliver Stone

and I did JFK. And that literally like spun things, both like in terms of perception, but also in my mind. The thing is, is that- And you were able to use that research from 53rd Street. Exactly.

I was. Well, I did some even crazier research for that. That's a whole other thing. Oh my gosh. What? Well, you know, the guy that i was playing was based on a real guy and he was a fascist sort of gay well i guess he was gay

yeah um but really into um like leather and i don't even want to you know certain kind of like really hardcore kind of sexual yeah stuff and al Stone wanted me to hang out with the guy. So I did. I spent like the night. Oh, he's still alive. He was alive when we made the movie. He's still alive. Spent the night running around to all these leather bars in New Orleans.

And I was like, fuck. And it was actually the night. It was night of the cast dinner, which was like, I was like, Jesus, thanks, Oliver. He sends me a, but Gary Oldman was in the night, it was night of the cast dinner, which was like, I was like, Jesus, thanks Oliver. You know, he sends me a, but Gary Oldman was in the movie. Yeah. And. He was Oswald,

right? Yeah. And Gary, yeah, and Gary, and I called, I called Gary, I'm like,

dude, can you, can you do this, can you do this run with me? He's like, okay. And so he, so it was so sweet of him.

So he, so me and Gary ran around with this this lunatic yeah throughout anyway that was an

amazing evening yeah saw a lot of stuff learned some things learned some things yeah but you know what

when I became when I wanted to be an actor it was never it was always about wanting to put on a different hat every time you know wanting to let you know to be a different guy like to me that's what being an actor was right

when i look at meryl streep you know right she's like the best at that because when you line them all up it's you know some of us have tried that but then the most successful ones are kind of right in the same pocket do you know what i mean um right when i look at her i go okay uh i totally believed there was this one i totally believed her this one and they don't like in terms of like like the social upbringing or whatever, those two people couldn't be any more different. Yeah, it's kind of fascinating like that. You don't see the technique.

Right. And you're like sort of like, what the fuck? Yeah, yeah. So that's the type of thing. I think you do that, definitely. And I think you're afforded that as a character actor. What I do appreciate, if I was to get, like I said, I have a lot of gratitude

about being able to make a living at all as an actor or as any kind of an artist. You know as well as I do that that is a uh that's a real uh struggle the thing that i really appreciate is that when i get offered things um they're pretty varied like not in terms of like the kind of characters that come my way they're varied not only in terms of the men but also uh the genre you know um things come that are you know funny and things come that are dark and things come that are intense and weird and you know man you have like there's some moments of the weird humanity that like because i'm flashing back on some moments of of your roles like i don't remember the JFK role clearly,

but I certainly remember that moment in A Few Good Men and I remember the moment in Sleepers. No, but it's, the weird moment that I remember

is when he finds you after, when you're just this fucking drunk, fucking nothing. Thank you for that. I really appreciate that. Do you know what I mean? Like, and you just see in your eye that it's, you know, you're just this fucking drunk fucking nothing. Thank you for that. I really appreciate that. Do you know what I mean? And you just see in your eye that you're just completely morally bankrupt and done.

And that was the fucking moment. Not the moment where you're fucking doing horrible things to kids. But where the humanity of that moment is like, what's going to happen now to that guy? Because you have a moment of not empathy, to that guy because there's a there you have a moment of not empathy but like that guy looks like he did himself in yeah he's a little man right yeah he's a little man and he gets seven in the chest yeah but you kind of you're okay with that though i mean yeah people bubble when i love it you know if i if i play a character like that and you go to go to the movies and people cheer after he gets blown

away you know you've done a good job you know that movie i thought was so good and i remember at the time there was some issues with i don't know what people's issues were with it but you know because the book was so fucking brutal but i thought the movie was good that was barry levinson it was and and it's so you work with him again but like and again again about you know four friends in a much more horrible circumstance. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what's really weird? Some movies really don't do as well as they should because they have horrible endings.

Or tragic. Maybe that's... Well, look, I always say that the last five minutes, first off, can take kind of a mediocre movie and make people have a really good feeling about it. Well, I remember that movie, but it was heavy, dude. But in Apollo 13, you're real good with groups of guys. In some weird way, right? Paxton was in here like a week before he passed.

Was he? It was so good that he was here and so sad what happened but god damn it i'm glad i had that time with him yeah yeah he's a great dude oh my god really fun so much enthusiasm and oh yeah yeah and always delivers man you know he gets on the screen and it's sort of like you know yeah but that that must have been a great i love that fucking movie we had an amazing time i mean we and some of my fondest memories of any kind of shooting were um well i'm sure i don't know if you ever did he talk to you about the kc-135 the vomit comet no okay well those are two it's two things first off we a lot of when we're when we were in the initial launch in the capsule, some of that we did on a soundstage.

And we would get strapped in because we were in our giant spacesuits and we couldn't really move too much for a really long time. Yeah. But we had communication between Tom and Bill andon and i um and we could sort of like hear each other and we would hear each other just for like like two three hours just but in between shots while they're setting up yeah i don't think i've ever left as long or as hard and i wish i could i wish somebody fucking recorded it because just you guys in spacesuit bill is hilarious and and tom is hilarious and ron's like kind of like little reactions to us i mean we had such a blast but there's a there's a um back then in order to uh create weightlessness yeah you would need

harnesses and straps and then you would try to paint those things out and it was pretty um rudimentary and these days no problem you know i just saw life you know they're floating through the whole movie and it's you know it's all kind of digital stuff there's a plane called the kc-135 also known as a vomit comet that nasa has where they that they use to train astronauts and to create weightlessness on on earth which is impossible people think there's such thing as a anti-gravity chamber there's no such thing right what the plane does is it goes out of the gulf of mexico and it climbs straight up it's like a big big-ass plane like a 707 yeah yeah climb straight up and then dives and straight up and dives and they're called parabolas yeah and when you go over the top the combination of centrifugal force uh throwing you

back up you know like a roller coaster and the gravitational pull balance out for 25 seconds yeah and so we had to go up there to experience that yeah and you know i'm like this is terrifying and nauseating they call it the vomit cup. Yeah, yeah. And we go and we do it. And we, you know, do, you do like, I think you do 20 out and 20 back. And then, you know, we came down, we landed. It was so fun.

Well, we experienced weightlessness. That's so cool. And, you know, high-fiving and the whole thing. And we're kissing the ground. Ron has a conversation with Stevenielberg who says to him uh why don't you shoot the movie up there and then you'll have actual weightlessness just build the set and shoot it up there and he comes back to us he's like guys guys i got a great great great exciting um uh i'm like oh fuck you're kidding me and we go out down to Houston and shot quite a lot of stuff in a airplane hurtling up and down and up and down 600 times we did it oh my god and so you got used to it well we well yeah i mean and so 25 seconds at a time

yeah yeah so 25 seconds at a time but you know that's a fairly long time to get a shot then you get another one and and um you're uh you know the camera's floating so so it can all be kind of like handheld yeah but it's like you know literally like um you know bite the water out of the air thing yeah and uh we would if we weren't in the scene we'd play in the back of the airplane play football and like i mean you could fly like peter pan i mean up and down so as i was speaking of paxton you know as a bonding sort of experience that was amazing and and bill and tom were way more gung-ho than me i'm like i got a family you know because it's you know it's terrifying and and bill and tom were way more gung-ho than me i'm like i got a family you know because it's you know it's terrifying and and uh and we also had to take some very very serious

drugs to combat the nausea um so we were all a little bit like kind of you know druggy in a weird sort of way but anyway it was it was great we had such a blast. And he was so gung-ho. He goes, man, this is the greatest. I can't believe it. I mean, you could not be in a bad mood around that guy on the set. Because he was so enthusiastic about the process of making movies. Yeah, he loved it. He loved it.

Yeah. I just watched Mystic River. It's one of those movies, if it's on, I'm going loved it. He loved it. Yeah. I just watched Mystic River. It's one of those movies, if it's on, I'm gonna watch it from wherever it's on. And I like doing that. I'd rather than, you know,

choose a movie to watch, flip around and go like, oh shit, the good part's coming. But like those scenes with you, again, this vulnerability that you're able to offer up on those bits on the phone.

But that moment, look at me, I i'm like that idiot that moment where you say to sean penn what'd you do huh that was like oh my god and the fact is you like you know i i'll ask you this because i just noticed it the last time is that you know you know him you know sean penn's character you guys come up in the same area and you knew what he the same area, and you knew what he did, and he knew what he did. And then there was the morality of the script is that, well, he did kill somebody, but in that movie,

I don't know how the book is written or how you thought of it, are you going to get Sean Penn? Because I take my finger and I make it into a gun. And you pull the trigger. Yeah, we're at the parade. I'll tell you an interesting thing about that. I went to Clint, and I'm sure you've heard this before,

but Clint is not somebody who wants to talk too much about motivation and those types of things no he he really does he he he wants you to go home go into your room do whatever you need to do and come to work with your shit i heard that about like that's an interesting thing that i'm learning from i just talked to walter hill and he said that this whole idea of directors directing actors is kind of a myth. And he said it's sort of like they do a job. You hire them to do the job. You chose them for the job they do, so do your job.

Exactly. And horrible name dropping here, but Meryl Streep said to me when we were doing The River Wild, she said, you have to work with Clint. You're going to love it because you like to work in that way where you figured it out and meryl's like that i mean she you know i mean she would take direction certainly but like when she comes to work it's not like she's discovering right character yeah you know what i mean yeah made choices clint's very much like that yeah um and sometimes he'll only do one take sometimes he'll shoot the rehearsal. Everything is very, very, you know.

So all of a sudden, all of us went, ooh, fuck, we got to get our shit together. Like, we're not, you know, it's not going to be 18 takes, you know, whatever. So we actually started to kind of, like, rehearse on our own. You and Sean? Me and Sean and Tim and Fish.

You know, we would get together and read through the script and stuff. And Clint was never there. And so rarely did I ask him because I knew that wasn't his thing. But at that moment, I said, so Clint, what is that that I'm doing there? It was in the script too. It was in the script, yeah, to take that. It might have even been in the book.

I can't remember. And he said, well, that's for the audience to decide. And so I said, okay, I'm going to make a choice, but I'm going to take that to my grave because if he wanted it to be for the audience to decide that i'm gonna you know honor that i know what it was okay you're gonna get him okay actor secrets are sort of for me they like i've had this happen once before i'm like what do you get to lose by telling us now it's the only it's the only moment that I've ever done that I will hold on to.

But look, I think that's a very astute observation. Well, it's so weird that I bring it up to you and I have this opportunity to talk to you. Because after seeing that movie like six or seven times, really, in bits and pieces and a few times all the way through, that struck me. And that was like just a week or so ago. It was on cable. And I was like, oh, I didn't, you know what I mean? Like, I didn't know what, what is the real bond, ultimately, that these guys really have?

Yeah, well, you know, that's the thing, is that could be interpreted as, you know, listen, you know me, I know you, we're cool. No, no, I didn't say that. Yeah, yeah. And like when you work with Merle or Sean or like, you know, are you guys, like do you find yourself like ever gleaning things?

Or are you set in your ways? Do you, or at least when you work with an actor, do you do a scene and go like, well, fucking Sean nailed that? Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, definitely. I mean, I think that you try as much as possible

not to step outside and start watching what you're doing because you really have to be listening to the person. You gotta fight that sometimes, don't you? Yeah, you do. You do sometimes have to fight it, but you really feel like you listening to the person. You got to fight that sometimes, don't you? Yeah, you do. You do sometimes have to fight it, but you really feel like you have to, you know, especially even as I get, you know, older, I mean, it's like I really want to experience staying just kind of in it, you know,

like the difference between the time when you're waiting to go on to the time when they say action. In a way, I'm trying to learn how to make that sort of flow into one thing. And to really feel like I'm walking in this person's shoes. Not pretending to be the guy. I don't make people call me by the character name and stuff like that. But I want to feel like I'm walking in another man's shoes at this time. So to actually stop and step out, either and look at my own work or look at the work of the person that I'm working with,

is kind of counterproductive. That being said, I don't look at, you know, Jack Nicholson saying you can't handle the truth. You know, I'm going, fuck, this guy's nailing this. Oh, my God, is this good? You know, look, I mean, you can't handle the truth. You know, I'm going, fuck, this guy's nailing this. Oh my God, is this good? You know, I can't, look, I mean, I can't, you know, of course I'm going to, of course I'm going to see that. Even when he doesn't have to do the other side

because they're doing a single, he'll do it. Like, I don't know if you had that experience with him. He did it again and again. It was one of the most, I have so much respect for him. What was funny about it was that if you think about that particular scene in A Few Good Men, I mean, shooting a courtroom is there's a lot of coverage that you have to get because you got to get first you got to get Jack. And then obviously, you know, they shot his side of things out first, you know, maybe three, four sizes on on him. Amazing. You know, he's going to be off camera for the rest of the day.

Now you're turning back around on Tom and to me and me and Kevin Pollack. There's a lot of pieces that you got to get. He just kept doing it and doing it and doing it and doing it. And for every single one of us, it was just as cool. But what changed was that you know those marine uniforms are just really uncomfortable yeah they make them so that you're not comfortable and right you know they're made to you know feel like shit i mean he starts taking his jacket off then his you know he's got his dye off and then his hair starts getting all you know what i mean so by the

end of the day by the end of the day he's still doing it but he's like this you know kind of like he's more Nicholson than he is you know right right he's comfortable yeah it was great okay so let's talk about I Love Dick

because you know I know Jill and Catherine I love and I think I'm going to get to talk to Griffin I've met him once or twice he's great but yeah he is great

he's doing a good job in that it's amazing yeah I gotta watch the rest of them yeah please do no I will because it gets very it gets oh boy it really goes all kinds of pretty pretty interesting places but like i said being with an artist who's in that level of art you know like who you know who sells painting she does well for herself and and and getting to know that community a little

bit but still feeling outside of it it's's a very insulated, odd world. Yes. Which is really great for a TV, for a show, because it almost, it doesn't seem fictional at all, but it's definitely outside of almost everyone's experience. So what was the pitch for you? How'd you get involved with it? I got, because you're Dick.

I'm Dick. I am. I got a call that Jill Soloway had a had a had a new show and it was called

I Love Dick and that I was dick I mentioned to my wife and she said so you're doing that one I was like honey I haven't read

the script yet she's like no no no you're doing it it's Soloway and Catherine was attached she's great. Yeah, she's amazing.

Oh my God. She's amazing. Yeah. And then I spoke to a couple other women in my life. Maybe my daughter, one of my sisters, whatever. They're all saying the same thing. You're doing that one, dude. And then I read the script.

I loved it. Yeah. And Jill and I got on the Skype. And she was in LA. I was on the East coast and, um, we spoke about it and, you know, it was important to her. Um, I think at this point, or maybe always, I don't know. I didn't have known her before this, but, but, um, the notion of having a good person, somebody that was going to be a positive kind of influence and a positive vibe on the set was really super important to her. Yeah.

She's kind of like, I hear you're nice, but I don't, you know, that kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. And what was important to me was to know whether or not this character was just going to be objectified, which is cool, but whether you were ever going to get to know him and get a little bit deeper into who he is. And she promised me that you would and uh then we sort of began the process and and and i feel like especially in the in the the last few episodes they kind of delivered on that promise well the book was sort of controversial in that community from what i understand that uh you know i don't think i'm speaking out of school really but i mean it's it's based on a on a real book by this chris kraus person yes yeah who went

on this uh this thing this uh what do you call them the what is that situation there uh a residence artist residence in marfa which is now like sort of uh the capital of uh of art have you been in no i haven't been there yet that's cool you should go i won't go and we're gonna go i'll check it out but but it's really a kind of the sort of the idea that this woman who in the in the in the show is is not an artist per se and becomes immediately obsessed with you and then starts to present for this art project as these documents, these letters of obsession and things. And you don't, you know, from the point on that is that you, there's a moment there where you're like, this person's crazy.

Or this is, you know, and that like, this person's crazy or this is, you know, and that like it, your, your character is just holding strong to this onslaught of obsessive, you know, insecurity and, and need. And, and, and it's like, uh, did you talk to the real Dick? No, no, I, I don't think he would want to talk to me. Um, he was not happy about the book the book is written sort of as a semi i mean they it really is a memoir but but it's kind of presented almost like a novel i think yeah but um no i didn't and uh in the book you're very you learned very little about about him and more about her it's really more about her and and and about silvera about her husband and and what i really wanted to do was make sure that i could create a character

that had some more kind of depth and interest and and one of the people that i latched onto. See, the book actually takes place in Northern California. Marfa had nothing to do with it. Yeah. Marfa, Texas. But Marfa, Texas was, there was a character there named Donald Judd who was a famous sculptor living in New York

who had driven through Marfa, Texas when he was a young man in the Army and remembered it. And he left New York and went to Marfa, Texas and started buying up buildings and ranches. He was the guy. And he was the guy. Yeah. ranches he was the guy and he was the guy and he's very very i would say probably a lot more similar to dick than to uh to the dick in the book right and and one of the things that i really wanted to explore with this was the nature of celebrity because dick um is a very big fish in a very small pond. Yeah.

And he has, Donald Judd, for instance, was a successful sculptor in New York, but maybe wasn't the most famous sculptor in New York. Yeah, of course. And went to this tiny, tiny little town in the middle of nowhere. I mean, it's West Texas. It takes three hours to get there from El Paso. That's you know airport really yeah it's very hard to get to yeah um and he created a a world where he was a king yeah he was you you you everybody knew him everybody knows every move and everything he does right and that to me is a lot like what being an actor is kind

of like yeah you try to create a world where you are are are the subject of of attention and of of focus and then once you've created that you sometimes have a difficult relationship with that notion right and that's what is going on for this guy from the beginning that's where you were going that's the work you did that those are the choices you're making based on that dynamic within yourself yes yeah and this and and and you know women um throw themselves a dick and and and this woman uh is no exception you. And I think that when you, we were kind of talking about this before, but, you know, when people hang on every word, admire you, tell you that they love you and they love your work and all those kinds of things. On one hand, it's like amazingly great and it makes you feel so good all the time. Right.

But on the other hand, you're always kind of struggling going, maybe, is any of this deserved? Yeah, you don't know me. Yeah, yeah. Or have I done anything that really is any good? Right. I don't know if, maybe not gotten there, but they talk about in the show

that I haven't made any art in seven years. And that... Oh yeah, there was that one yelling. I think when she yells at you, you haven't done anything. When she shows up to audit the class. Right, right. She's done all her homework. Yeah, you haven't made anything.

And so I think that's where he's at in his life is that he's kind of, he's struggling with this undeserved celebrity. And then you do make something. You retitle the brick piece. Yes. I love that beat. That's funny, man.

That was a funny beat. I make it with a pen. Yeah. Well, now I'm excited to watch the rest of it. And I think it's a great world. I didn't know how I was going to feel about it. But the weird menace of you're at this point where i am in the series you're still pretty detached but whatever's going on with griffin and katherine and that unraveling and then these other

surrounding artists that one scene where they they try to rehearse that play it was like it's really hard not to make that stuff look i don't know if trite's the right word or hackneyed but you know having been with an artist for a while now it's like they live in a very specific space artists yes and it's all very earnest and it's all very you know they are taking risks but it just seems very insulated and i and i think that you know that to do that for a broader audience, there's some, you know, there's some traps to that, but it seems that you've avoided it. Well, I think that you make a really good point, but I also think that even within trying to make it not look hackneyed,

I think Jill is also willing to say maybe sometimes it is. Do you know what I mean? Oh, no, absolutely. Maybe it's okay if this looks ridiculous. Yeah, yeah. Right. And I think that's a really fine line to walk. Plus, the other thing is that, brilliantly, they have chosen to intercut these kind of art films.

Oh, yeah, they're great made by women these strange yeah yeah one of them had a profound impact on my girlfriend like when she saw it she's like oh my god that i saw that at the show oh she had already seen it the milk one oh the milk oh that's crazy right it's great it's great it's great um i saw the whole one it goes on and on and on yeah but anyway yeah um you know one of the things that's kind of cool is that i have a long uh history besides like the mainstream movies that i've you know tried to make i've always gone back to sort of like indie art house type type things because i feel like whatever you know you don't get paid and you're making movie art and you know it's harder and harder to get that kind of stuff done in films

these days because there's there's very little spot for it right you know i mean yeah so you're really struggling you're struggling at film festivals and you're struggling to make this kind of art but i love dick is like a is like an art house movie you know an art house you know i mean it's very experimental in the way that it's shot in the way that it's cut the kind of music that it's even in the way that we we approached it from an acting standpoint so that was really kind of fun for me i was like this is fucking cool man this is like being back you know yeah doing some little crazy movie in the streets of new york right there's a great um director named andrea arnold who directed uh two really stunning movies if you haven't seen them one is called fish tank and one is called american honey uh she's a british um director that jill really admired and those, they're super like art house,

you know, kind of movies. Brilliant, both of them. But she directed four of our episodes, which we were thrilled to kind of have her. And I'll give you an example. One of the things that she does, which is fascinating to me, is that you'll do a take, do take,

you know, a couple of takes. And then we'll do a silent take where we just take all the words out and we just sort of play the scene with physicality oh wow or a look or um you know just a feel like just a feeling yeah i've never done that in my life as as an actor and you know i've done a lot of shit yeah and. And I was like, this is like mind blowing. Yeah. Really, really cool.

And how is she going to use that? And you cut little pieces in it. Oh, really? And if you look at the show, you'll see that there's just moments that are just kind of like, look at that, look at her eye

just for a second there or just a hand on a leg or something. Right, right. You know, they are sometimes from these silent things. Oh, that's a trip.

So that's exciting, doing something new. Totally. And you're, well, that must be great at, you know, where you're at in your career to actually be like, all right, I've never done this before. Yeah, definitely. And I was a little bit resistant to it, frankly, because, you know, I'm old and jaded and bitter, you know. And my wife just kept saying to me, just leave your heart open, you know, just leave yourself open to, you don't, you know, whatever. And my wife just kept saying to me, just leave your heart open, you know, just leave yourself open to, you don't, you know, even at this level of experience,

you don't know everything there is to know about acting and making movies and, you know, the process. So just leave yourself open, you know, to a certain extent. No, it sounds like you got a good partner there. Oh, yeah yourself open to a certain extent. Sounds like you got a good partner there. Oh, yeah, yeah, she's good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's smart. And you respect each other craft.

We do, yeah. Well, it was great talking to you, Kevin. I appreciate you taking the time. You too, man. It was really fun. I really enjoyed it. That was great. I love talking to Kevin Bacon.

Solid dude. Good guy. I am in a hotel room. I do not have my guitar. I am just going to sign off. Boomer lives! Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. episode where I talked to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton.

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