WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 812 - AJ Mendez Brooks / Fred Stoller

Episode Date: May 17, 2017

As AJ Lee, she was a larger than life superhero who won the WWE women's wrestling championship three times. But as AJ Mendez Brooks, she spent most of her life coping with mental illness. AJ tells Marc why she decided to open up about her struggles now that she's retired from wrestling. Also, Fred Stoller stops by again, this time with some insecurity over the interviews he did for his new book. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing with cannabis legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category.

legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! store and a cast creative all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuckadelics what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it i'm out in the world i'm in chicago a city that i

every time i come to i like more and more i love this city i'm i'm in this room in this hotel looking directly across at this gorgeous old old old apartment but i don't know it's a beautiful old building and i have those moments where i'm like look at those windows i bet you life is better in there probably not if you've got an iphone you've got access you have access to that roller coaster right in the palm of your hands where do you want to go today? To hell and back? You got it. You don't even have to get out of bed. So I'm working on another episode of Easy. That's Joe Swanberg's anthology series on Netflix. If some of you saw it last year, I did one with Emily Ratajkowski and Jane Addams. But this year it's a different story. And I'm working with Michaela Watkins.

How is she not the best? Jane Addams, again. I'm working with Kate Berlant, the comedian who I've only met once. We're shooting today. But it's been good. It's been good. I like being here. And the shooting schedule is pretty easy.

And it's a great city. I walked around. Jane Addams coerced me, cajoled me, pressured me to buy a pair of Frye boots. Classics. I don't know why in the back of my brain, I was like, nah, Frye boots, done. Not my thing. And for some reason, if the store is organized nicely enough, if the boutique is doing its job, you will put things on and think, how could I ever have not had these? So that's going to happen.

Fry boots are going to happen on my feet. They're happening. They're happening as we speak, the fry boots. But today on the show, we have AJ Mendez Brooks. You probably know her as AJ Lee. If you are a wrestling fan, that is her name. And many of you know her husband, CM Punk, Phil Brooks. And many of you know that I will be on a wrestling show on Netflix called Glow, the first trailer of that, the first major trailer, like with stuff in it is out there and available on the internet. Looks pretty good.

Good pace. I'm excited about it. And I know it sounds weird for me to say like I'm excited about it, like I don't know what's going to happen. I've only seen five episodes of the thing. I mean, I know how it ends and everything, but I don't know what's going to happen. I've only seen five episodes of the thing. I mean, I know how it ends and everything, but I don't know how it all. It looks great, and I'm excited, and there's going to be sporadic wrestling-oriented interviews

throughout the lead-up to the show. But this one was really just about AJ's amazing new book about her struggles with some mental illness and some drugs and wrestling and child. It's just a it's a full on story. And she's pretty amazing. And I was happy to talk to her. And also before we talked to AJ, the always annoyed Fred Stoller stopped by. Yeah. You know, every once in a while you got to check in with old Fred. He's got a new Kindle single about the 1989 HBO Young Comedian special out, which it's pretty interesting because he was on it. It's called Five Minutes to Kill. You can get it on Amazon. But I remember that

show. I remember those guys. I remember all the people that were on that show. I remember that I was not on it. Also, I want to mention our friend Andy Kindler. Those of you who know podcasts, who know comedy, you comedy nerds, those of you who know my TV show, if you're a comedy person, you know Andy Kindler. And I needed to mention that Andy, my dear friend Andy, finally has a podcast to call his own. If you listen to podcasts, you that andy is a podcast guest extraordinaire and now he has his own place to do his kindler thing that's a lot of kindler it's called thought spiral and you can get it now on itunes or wherever you get your podcast andy and j elvis weinstein from mst3k and freaks and geeks they join forces weekly to solve the problems of the world and inevitably much smaller issues. Go listen to

the first episode of Thought Spiral now. Do it now. Get some Andy. If your brain isn't working at a frenetic enough frequency, you might need some Kindler in your life. That's what I say. Maybe I'll use that as a tag. Just throw in my buddy Andy a little help. You know, sometimes when I do this show, I don't know how to help. I don't know what to do. I know I can't see past my own insanity and fury and fear and whatnot. But every once in a while, I get the email. You know, I get the email that just, you know, it makes me feel like something.

When everything is so overwhelming and operating at such an insane pace, it's just this never-ending shitstorm or tsunami or however you're looking at it, whatever team you're on. I mean, it's a little exhausting. And things get diminished, little things, quality of life things, just moments. If you have a cloud hanging over you,

your brain is in the middle of chaos because you've engaged it. Sometimes life gets lost in the undertow. But every so often I get an email and I just wanted to share this because it's exactly what this show can do and it makes me happy to know that these kind of things happen. The subject line is Marin and Shakespeare in the classroom. Hi, Mark. I know enough about you being a fan that I think I can

skip the Mr. Marin and go right to Mark. I am a high school English teacher. The fact of the matter is close to 90% of my students are Hispanic, many of whom are undocumented or have undocumented family members. I am teaching a large group of students who are in quite literal peril in the age of Trump. I get questions like, my parents are undocumented. Am I going to be okay? My brother was arrested for possession of pot a couple of years ago. Will he be deported? I do my best by saying, will he be deported? I do my best by saying that California is a state that protects its immigrants, but I can't offer them false assurance.

Their families might be split up. It's a fucking tough spot to be in. I want to be honest with them, but that honesty can be so hard for them to hear. I am not allowed to discuss my political beliefs, but I think it's morally my duty to teach all students, but specifically these students, about what the hell is happening in today's world so they are informed. So I have to get creative. I just heard your conversation with Sir Ian McKellen

and specifically his beautiful monologue he read to you about strangers and refugees. Oh, fuck yes. That's my way in. I've written a lesson where we use his monologue he read to you about strangers and refugees. Oh, fuck yes. That's my way in. I've written a lesson where we use his monologue to talk about the dangers of discrimination, the dangers of fear of the other. I tie in Lord of the Flies. I connect it to Elie Wiesel's Night. Your experience with Sir Ian, I feel like I can be on a first name basis with him as long as I have the Sir in there, is the catalyst I've been searching for to allow me to help these students the best I can it allows me to talk frankly about what's

happening with fucking William Shakespeare to back me up if anyone has a problem with my lessons the lessons are going well and I just want to let you know that you are directly helping kids who need to be helped now thanks for that And thanks for everything else you do. Best, Mike. Yeah, well, I'm glad about all of that. And I'm glad that the power of Shakespeare has that power. And I was taught that face to face with Sir Ian McKellen. And I'm happy to hear that, And I'm happy to hear that, if anything, there's some context, some historical context, some exploration of these types of hatreds and fears and horrors that really go back to the beginning of human beings. Thanks for that email, man. Seriously, I appreciate it.

All right. So Fred Stoller, what do you need to know? If you listen to this show, you know Fred. I appreciate it. All right, so Fred Stoller, what do you need to know? If you listen to this show, you know Fred. I love Fred. I'm happy he's doing okay. I'm happy he's doing this Kindle single thing. And this one that's out now is about the 1989 HBO Young Comedian special called Five Minutes to Kill. You can get it on Amazon.

And this is me and the inimitable Fred Stoller back in the... It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes.

Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Death is in our air.

This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series

streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Garage. Fred. Yes. How are you? Headphones on? Whatever you want, buddy.

Okay. How are you feeling? I'm pretty good, you know, oh, the mixed things. Yeah, okay. Is that all right? Yeah. Too loud? Yeah.

It is too loud? Yeah. Oh, I think, hold on, hold on. That's it? Yeah, I'm always like the guy, don't make trouble. What do you mean, don't make trouble? No, you know, my favorite joke, you know the Jewish, these two Jews about to be executed. Yeah.

One says to the other, maybe we should ask for a blindfold. The other guy goes, Murray, don't make trouble. Yeah. And that's why, you know, like, hey, Mark's doing me a favor. Don't ask about the volume. Don't be nervy.

You know, that's why I haven't made it big. Comics are nervy, and I always get uncomfortable. Yeah. When people are pushing. Oh, yeah? Yeah, trying to get free seats. Yeah.

You know. So you think that Yeah, trying to get free seats. You know. So you think that was the liability? I think so. This not entitlement. When I used to headline, I used to feel sorry for people that were waiting online an hour to see me as their weekend. So that's not good confidence. I feel sorry for them. So wait.

Now, Fred, tell me about the success of the Seinfeld book. My Seinfeld year. Yeah, yeah. No, no it did well it was a kindle single yeah and it's um it was about my tumultuous right well yeah you're writing on Seinfeld but how what's this Amazon deal I didn't know they were doing you got a deal with them to do this one no not like a holding deal or anything no but I mean they paid you money this one no not like a holding deal or anything no but i mean they paid you money we'll see yeah i signed something it's um could i could i plug what it's called yeah of course it's called five minutes to kill how the hbo young comedian special changed the lives of 1989's funniest comics oh that's good so that was the year you were on. Who was the lineup? Okay. David Spade, Rob Schneider, Drake Sather, Warren Thomas, and Jan Karam. Warren and-

Don't give away too many endings. It's a twist, but yeah. Oh, there's a twist? Well, but we know what happened. Warren and Drake, it didn't end up well, ultimately. Yeah, yeah. Okay. All right.

We gave it away, but that's okay. What do you mean we didn't give anything away? I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. Their careers went down. Yes, yes, but that's what I thought. Actually, I came up with the idea sort of because of you. Yeah. I was listening to your podcast, Driving, and Rob Schneider was the guest.

Yeah. And you said, what was your big break? He goes, the 1989 Young Comedian special. What the fuck? I was on that. What did I do wrong? Wait a minute. Why wasn't was your big break? He goes, the 1989 Young Comedian special. What the fuck? I was on that. What did I do wrong? Wait a minute. Why wasn't it my big break?

And it was David Spade's big break. Yeah. So I started thinking about it. And I went, yeah, there's other people on it that wish they'd do whatever I do. So I found it interesting. I love all showbiz stories. You probably do because you host this. Interesting. I love all showbiz stories, as you probably do because you host this.

And this one, I think out of the Young Comedian specials, the six of us, all hopeful, had a very diverse trajectory of careers and lives. Sure. I ran into Jan recently. She's still doing it. Right? Yes. Well, yeah. She's back. And I loved Warren. I knew Drake was very funny. Warren was a force of nature. We all know David Spade and Rob Schneider, of course, and you. Yes, so basically, it's sort of like those, I know you probably don't follow sports, I'm assuming, but it's like those, what happened to the NCAA,

you know, five of some college and two became pros. One's a security guard. One got shot. You know, it's like that kind of story, which I love. So basically,

so how'd you, how'd you put it together? What was the process? Well, I had to go out of my comfort zone and being outside. Well, I had to walk away from the Grove. Yes, I had to bug people, which I suck at.

Yeah. You mean you suck at it intentionally? No, like I tried doing a podcast. You can effortlessly bug people. Yes, I'm annoying without thinking I'm being annoying. Fruitless, we bug people. Yes, I'm annoying without thinking I'm being annoying. You know, when I did your show, the IFC show,

Andy Kindler was being a bully at lunch going, this guy's who? He's the annoying guy. The Jew, the Jew, the nebbish. So he loved being someone he could bully that he thought was more Jewish than him. I think it was tongue-in-cheek. Okay, but he bullied me another time, but that's all right. Oh, really?

The two of you, the perpetual neurotic spinning men, you're bullying each other. That's funny. I don't bully him, but he was like... I'll tell you something. I guess, you know what? Andy can be a little righteous. Yes, yes.

Very funny, but when he's passionate about something but i i have to believe that he's not honestly bullying you no he's not wanting to hurt me and harmful but he just there was this show bob's burgers they had pickups you know so everyone was going one at a time bob's burgers right you were both voices on that yeah i only did two yeah he's he's a regular. He plays it down. All right, all right. But no. So he was like hanging out there.

He wouldn't leave, even though his session was over. He was like schmoozing everyone. And then I'm just sitting there, he goes, this guy's so annoying. I go, Andy, you're the one schmoozing. He goes, yeah, you're right. Yeah. Well, Andy, you know what's great is that most people, when the cameras go on, that's when you turn it on. When the cameras go on, Andy turns it off.

I did a few episodes of a sitcom with him and Bob Saget. Yeah. And this old character actor was going, guy, you're so annoying. Like, they would work. Paramount would have tours coming in, tours, and they'd be working the crowd. Oh, really? Bob and Andy? And Andy.

This one guy, just older, not Jerry Allback. Jerry, I forgot his name, but he was on The Sopranos. He goes, you two, like they cared more about getting laughs from the tourists coming in than in their scenes. Right, yeah. Andy's great with the crew. But so I had to, I felt like I was a detective. Well, let me just say this before it gets out of hand.

I love Andy. I had him on my show many times. A very funny man. And he's very aware of everything we're saying here. Right, Andy? Yes. He's also a religious listener to this show. Right, Andy?

Yes. Right, Andy? It must be just terrible. He's sitting there and he can't defend himself. He can't go,'t go oh oh oh listen to the the two of you guys doing the thing and the thing he was at a thing going oh you Fred what's your book called chapter one I'm nervous chapter two what if they don't like me chapter three I hope I didn't make a mistake so he's making making yeah that's pretty good that's

pretty good he got you pretty solid he got So basically, I had to interview relatives, managers, friends of all these people because this book is, it's only one-sixth of me. So if you find me annoying, there's other showbiz stories. So I found it really fascinating to get out of my head and talk to people who'd you talk to i talked to uh family members like let's go kids uh oh let's go each one okay all right there's one i won't mention right because i would take everyone out to eat you know i i treat them they're giving me stuff for a book right one of them uh i had to take him to malibu to nobu is it called yeah and first he goes i'm going to take it easy i'm just going to get appetizers yeah it was 70 dollars

and then he said i got more information so i met him at a waffle place oh yeah and so then he texted someone who set up a big interview because now it's a real meal at No Booze. Not just the appetizers you owe me. And this was straight out of a Seinfeld I wrote. I don't know if you know Seinfeld. Well, the Kenny Banner episode. Right, right. Where Bruce Smirnoff in real life gave me an Armani suit and wanted a meal for it.

Yeah. So he kept saying, I got to save the meal. This doesn't count. Yeah. So this guy, he's a good guy. But this is for your research. Yes. I owe him another meal at No Booze, he thinks.

Oh, yeah? But he was friends of two of them. Oh, okay. So he's a comic. Yes, yes. So I said, you're being a schnurrer. This is a Jewish word. I go, you're, you know, he said, you got something out of this.

I should benefit, too. Because of me, you got something out of this. I should benefit, too. Because of me, you got a big interview. Okay. So now a lot of people, young people under 30, didn't know about these HBO Young Comedian specials. They were very important. They broke Kennison, Dice, Seinfeld. So it was weird just trying to get these interviews and bug people. Did you talk to the people?

Did you talk to David Spade? I talked to Schneider at length. David, I got him. Norm had him on speakerphone. Norm would talk with, he would tour with Schneider and Spade. So Spade, people, they thought the dirt, I'm not going for the pathology with Spade Schneider. They're the contrast. You had the ones, hey, this is the good stuff.

Yeah. You know, so I didn't. What do you mean? The contrast. Meaning this is the opulent life. Oh, right. These were the guys that. Right, that made it big.

That have the pools and the mansions and- Well, Spade's pretty open these days. He is. I should have stayed. He gave me stuff. Now, ultimately, the destination of this piece, I imagine, is what did you find out about yourself in comparison to these people? I mean, because it doesn't seem like- It seems pretty balanced how people ended up in a way.

Like, you know, two people made it huge, and three people, you know, for one reason or another, you know, three people made it big, made a lot of money, and then a few didn't. Well, I found out, which I'm giving away the ending, but I don't care. No, it's not the ending. But just in general.

What did you find out about yourself? That we're all basically, I learned a lot even from talking to Drake's kids about being proud of what you've done. Uh-huh. About we're all really the same. Uh-huh. People are comic. At first I thought these were the two and these are the ones that didn't. these were the two and these are the ones that didn't but when you find out in depth about everyone i say frustrate you know we've all some of us have bigger houses deals but frustration

level we're all the same you know i i learned that and also there's a lot of other factors that come into managing your talent into knowing what to do with it, into having opportunities. There's luck. There's persistence. There's, you know, genius. And, you know, there's just, you know, cosmic circumstances. Yeah, I wanted to ask you. Yeah. Now, some people thought this was the best.

Some would say, no, no, it was a weak one. A young comedian special. Yours? Yeah, because they like the more traditional. But I'm from the era when these, it's called Five Minutes to Kill, because you got to kill. And do you think that whole thing I grew up with in comedy, the five minute, six minute hunk you make it with is gone? Because there are people who are very big comedians.

And I go, what was their Carson thing? And now I'm doing the voice. hunk you make it with is gone because there are people who are very big comedians and i go what was their carson thing and now i'm doing the voice or what was their young comedian special so we're not in that era where five minute hunks nothing has the same traction as it did when there were three networks and one cable station yeah and and in my era like you're talking the whole country it was unheard of except for carlin for everyone in the world to do an hour every year. And it was so, you had to really hone those five minutes. Yeah, I don't know. Like, I don't know if that's necessarily true.

Like, it seems to me that, I mean, for it to become a thing, like, I think Louis sort of made a thing. You got to do a new hour every year and Chris Rock as well. But if you look at the guys who put out a lot of comedy records, there were plenty of guys that were doing a new hour or so, you know, every year or two. Daffigan, yeah. No, but even before that, you know, like guys who did, you know, the old comedy records.

You know, like those comedy records were at least 35, 40 minutes, right? Cheech and Chong, Bill Cosby, Steve Martin, Richard Pryor, all those guys that had put out multiple records. But now there's about probably 30, 40, or 50 comics that have hours every year that aren't that big, but you know what I mean. No, I know, because they need to generate, because I think audiences are less tolerant.

I mean, I think one of the reasons a lot of guys went down from the 80s was they never changed their hour. Or because they were trained, or me included, think one of the reasons a lot of guys went down from the 80s was they never changed your hour or they were trained or me included in that very crisp well i was crisp no no but like the the five minute joke joke joke joke joke well the five minute set was really for network television and now like it's still the same it's four and a half minutes now it's crazy four and a half five minutes for for fallon or or or uh i don't know what colbert has but even back then it was but that was like a wasn't a young comedian special like a eight ours got a little less because what happened was they're usually five people on it

and they really wanted to get spade on he tried out twice he didn't get on and dennis miller who hosted it was really pushing spade should be on it. And they didn't want to bump any of the other five. Right. So they decided, let's put Spade on. And they took a little bit of our time away. Plus, Dennis did a great 10-minute set. He did like a 12-something, a long opening.

Up front, yeah. 12-minute set. Very solid. Did you talk to him? 10 minutes set he did like a 12 or something a long opening yeah 12 minutes set very solid so did you talk to him no i don't um i should have yeah i wasn't nervy yeah i i kind of yeah i i felt uh i learned i learned from listening to the tapes why I don't do a podcast anymore. Because I'm an asshole interrupting people. And I'd listen to them. I'd go, fucking Fred, stop interrupting them. You're interviewing them. Let them talk.

Do you say that out loud? Did I say it out loud? During the interview, do you say, Fred, stop talking? No, but I'd re-listen to them. I'd transcribe them. And you're saying that as you listen? Yeah. If I was self-aware i some of them you i couldn't hear it because one woman wanted to go to a korean steak thing where you

sizzle it right there and and uh so and i tried i paid i paid places to transcribe it. It goes sizzling, sizzling on the transcriptions. No, it does? Yes, it was going sizzle, sizzle. And so I had to, I wasted money paying for transcriptions, the worst place, because they got lazy. Oh, that's the funniest thing. They got lazy. And so I'd have to listen to them a few times.

Wait, who got lazy? The transcription places. They got lazy where they didn't really. I'm thinking I ended up rewinding. Okay, this is what John Ross said. He was good. So it's out now. It's called Five Minutes to Kill.

I'm so happy for you. I'm glad you're engaged and having a good time and out there talking to people. It's good for you just to talk to people. Really, again, if I wasn't a... Yeah, I see why you do podcasts. You get out of your head. Right.

Yes, and it really... There were some people I became friends with. The one guy, until he demanded the Nobu, we hung out. The Nobu. Nobu, it's called. We hung out a little bit. He became kind of. Well, you know, I mean, comics are still comics.

But I became friends with Drake Sather's kids. I'm going to play disc golf with one of them. Oh, good. Yeah. And they're doing okay? They are so good. Good. That's good to hear. They Oh, good. Yeah. And they're doing okay? They are so good. Good. That's good to hear.

They are really good. Good. So, Rob Schneider, I know you're wrapping this up, but I get that neurotic look, but... You take all the time you want. What about Rob?

It was interesting talking to him. Yeah. Chris rocked a little bit. Eddie Murphy, I didn't talk to him about this, but I did a part in a movie with him I was cut from. And they still think their best days

were the 80s. I'm talking, Eddie's musing about, we had youth and Schneider, the 80s, the comedy boom in San Francisco. I'm going, Rob, you're starring in movies,

you know. But they muse about, to me, those weren't the good old days right well no it's interesting how you know for yeah me neither my depression was the worst in the 20s I was very unhappy and sweaty and on drugs and and and I was angry and bitter and well yeah I mean I guess it goes but I guess that's the liability of being because with comedy it's very hard to hold on to the mantle you know like if you have a big success it's hard to evolve that into a career that that sustains itself so those guys were rock stars i mean sometimes if they didn't think of that what to do next or they thought it's gonna be

forever and they well i mean we say well i mean i don't know any of. They didn't think of what to do next or they thought it was going to be forever. Well, I mean, we say, well, I mean, I don't know any of us do that very well, what to do next. The guys who are really calculating and you know who are the smartest guys? The guys who started with us and got into writing.

They're the smartest ones. There are guys that I started with that were very average and became multi-millionaires writing that if you saw their act. But that was, they knew that though. It wasn't a liability. They were like, I have a talent a talent i'm not gonna put all my eggs in this fucking ridiculous basket of you know becoming a comedy star say use my talent the other way a lot of us didn't think

the comedy boom would end we didn't think there were guys in new york very funny guys you never heard of that when you talk about rob i talk about Rob Schneider and Rock loving those days. Murphy. Yeah. They would drink top shelf all night long for free at the catch. Yeah. Screw women, sleep till four in the afternoon. So a lot of them, yes, and they thought they were rocks.

So there was no real reason for them to think. Yes. So those were the best days of their lives. Of course. You know, then you drink all night. Not that I did. I don't drink in New York. Then you come to a place like the Ice House.

Yeah. And you get these like ski ball tickets for a drink. Yeah. You know, those little tickets. Yeah. And I remember the last time I'm there, I go, could I have my drink tickets? They go, I gave them to you. I'm thinking, I'm not like a con man trying to get free drinks.

I don't remember getting them. You know, did you find them in your pocket? Oh, yeah, a little ripped orange thing that you could get a Diet Coke with. That's the big payoff for it. Yes, you get like a coupon. Some places you can get your own soda. Yeah, so it's... You're doing good, though.

I am. I'm happiest uh i don't know i'm showing you paper like hey being creative look at that paper yeah i had i had notes we covered everything yeah you mark what i'm not gonna make the mistake i made before when people are like you when someone is a good guy then i go why is this guy an asshole why did this guy not return my email you know i'm saying do you ever do that when someone's such a good guy, then I go, why is this guy an asshole? Why did this guy not return my email? You know what I'm saying? Do you ever do that? When someone's such a nice guy? Do I ever do that?

Of course I do that. Like, why not just go, this guy's a mensch, this guy's a mensch, rather than go, why is this guy? Yeah,

like, he may be a mensch, but he still fucked me. I saw him on a bus. No, no, no, no,

no, I'm saying, not you, I harp on the other guy that's not a mensch. Oh, right, right,

yeah, because it's more exciting to be angry. I guess. saying not you i harp on the other guy that's not a mensch yeah oh right right yeah because like because it's more exciting to be angry i guess i know i mean it keeps your brain active i'm all angry at myself that's that that cliche no one yeah it's beating me up and i'm better yeah yeah what i just wrote a line but i'm sure you probably did the joke already if anyone uh you know says they're gonna kick my ass i just say just say, like, I'm on it. I used to do these weird non-sequitur one-liners. I used to go, I hate my guts. And sometimes I'd go, aww.

So it doesn't get the laugh. It's very hard sometimes when you do self-deprecating humor that there's just a very fine veneer between funny and sad. And if you don't pull it off, if you're just sad, it becomes more of a chore for the audience. Yeah. I go, I'm all right. Or stuff about my mother I write about, which is true, but they go, this makes me uncomfortable. This is too sad. I go, what I'm laughing about.

It's so ridiculous. Yeah, yeah. That. Yeah, no, yeah. Sometimes it's a hard sell okay i've had that too like and also speaking about my mother i'm like this has to be funny if it's not funny i'm in trouble yeah yeah because if i can't disarm it by making it funny i'm a disaster yeah but to me to me what's funny is it's so perverse it's's so the pathology of how negative, how when I was a kid, this is true. It's not even in my act.

I wanted to get a job at Burger King. She goes, yeah, they're waiting for you. You know, she really said that. Not real supportive, huh? Well, she said she would live vicariously for me. And she said when I was growing up, she was reliving the nightmare of school through me. me and she said when i was growing up she was reliving the nightmare of school through me so she was instilling in me that life growing up as a nightmare because she was reliving it oh my god so but i but i don't mean to make people feel uncomfortable i i just think i laugh at how

yeah demented it was yes well i love seeing you and i, thank you. Thanks for coming. Can we wrap up now or no? Absolutely. Sizzle, sizzle. Please, please. Sizzle, sizzle. Please. That's a great story. Fred is like being on an exciting, very neurotic, not too scary amusement park ride. That's enjoyable.

not too scary amusement park ride. That's enjoyable, but sometimes it's like, wow, that was just enough of that. And that's not an insult, Fred, so relax, will you? So wrestling. Many of you have moved through with me my education, my being educated about wrestling, which began with, I think, years ago with Mick Foley a bit and my producer, Brendan McDonald, is a wrestling fan.

I've been schooled without having been immersed in the form. CM Punk, Colt Cabana, these guys helped me through. CM Punk did some stuff on my show. Marin, he's a good guy, good friend. And now I'm on a wrestling uh show a comedy based on women's wrestlers and this is the first time i've sat down had a long conversation with a woman who is a wrestler uh aj lee as many of you know her aj mendez brooks um is her real name her memoir crazy is my superpower is available now wherever you get books.

And I really had a nice time hanging out with her. This is me and A.J. Lee talking in the garage. Do you want to move over so I can see you? Yeah, that might be helpful. Well, I had two people in here. I didn't get it rounded. I rarely have two people. Who did you have?

The creators of the show that I do, the Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling. Oh, yes. The two women that created the TV show. Oh, that's awesome. I wonder how your community is going to react to it. Yeah, I think there's like a special love

in people's hearts for GLOW. Right, but it's not that the show is fictionalized. All they really got the rights to was the name GLOW. Really? So I think there's, you know, some people involved

that are going to be like, fuck them. I think there's always, you know, when we see like a bad clothesline or something like that we get like very snooty about it oh yeah because because we know the technique that you're supposed to have and there's definitely a uh you know well chavo do you know chavo do you know chavo he's working on it right he trained them trained them. See, then you're probably good. He trained all the girls. Oh, wow.

All the women. He's amazing. So you're probably- He is amazing. And he comes from a wrestling family, right? Because I, look, I talked to your husband about this. He tried to educate me on wrestling. Right.

Now, since I've talked to Punk and done an actual wrestling show, I still know not enough about wrestling. Right about like the history or about like the technique and stuff involved i know a little bit more about the technique okay but i think basically my problem is that it wasn't my childhood thing right like my producer is it was a wrestling kid ah okay and you were a wrestling kid yes yes it like it was important to you but when you hear someone like the name chavo guerrero right what i mean what do you know about that guy like you just know that he's like this historic guy for for if like in the industry you know him as like a pure like a pure wrestler like there's some people who are just so talented like they are just like

they are wrestling um kind of personified yeah so him and his entire family when i heard that he was going to be like teaching right um like that makes sense like that's the kind of person you want to learn from right or like there's there's sort of this sort of old-timey road show of wrestling that's been going on for like a hundred years right and that you know wwe is the sort of the the utmost amplification of those concepts. Right. Right. And it did start in the carnivals.

Right. Yeah. So but that that become then it's a full on circus. Yeah. But that stuff that they're doing is still a kind of has that like the carnivals in town kind of thing. Yes. Yeah. You always feel like you're running away with the circus when you go on the road.

Really? For sure. No matter at what level? Yeah, oh, definitely. Because you're always, you know, you fit as many people as you can into a car and you are in a different city every night and you drive 300 miles every night to the next town.

That's with the Worldwide Wrestling Foundation? Yeah, and you drive yourself. So even at the beginning of that, when you came in, when it was already like big deal shit. Yeah. It was still getting on a bus with a few people. You are in your own rental car, and you pay for your own rental car.

What is that? McMahon really rips you off at all levels, doesn't he? That guy's really made a fortune off you guys. You got to rent your own car? I mean, yeah yeah you pay for your hotel room you pay for your own but is it part of the deal yeah because you're technically like independent contractors right okay so you get an all-in deal and you gotta cover your car yeah but you can't work anyone anywhere else so you're technically not that independent of a contractor

but it um but you know you get paid well if you know how to negotiate i don't know why i'm acting so surprised i just did a tour i'm in the middle of one i rent cars where i go and sometimes you'll drive the four hours as opposed to fly them because why fly yeah when you can drive yes always always drive instead of flying it's just such a soul suck to like go through the airport yeah and it's actually sort of a nourishing it's sort of a soul enhancer to drive. Yeah. It's like meditative. Unless you're doing it at like three in the morning

and it's just like you and another girl in the car and you're like, I hope I don't die tonight. And that's a little rough. This is not the night to die. But you won the championship three times? Yes. Now, are you retired? I am retired now.

Yeah, I've been retired for the two years it took me to finish this whole book. So, yeah. Because the thing about the book, outside of it being a memoir, it sort of serves also as a, there's a little bit of cautionary tale. There's a little self-help to it. And there's a transcendence of tremendous struggle, both mentally and professionally. Yes. And advice. I hope so.

So it kind of covers all the bases for... Who do you think your market is? Lost girls like yourself? I mean, I hope so. My goal was to... In writing, it was sort of thinking about who I was when I was kind of lost and alone and young and looking for anybody to help me out. And so I, I kind of want to help that if I could go back in time and like, tell her like, it's going to be okay. You can be a wrestler. You can fight your physically fight

your way out of this. Um, so it's sort of like for me as that young girl and for girls that are similar. Um, but the really cool thing doing these signings lately have been like there's like grown men and grown women and elderly people and like really, really young kids that I didn't even know knew me on TV that are just connecting to the message of mental health. And some people who are like, I don't even watch you in wrestling,

but I think it's cool that you're talking about this and trying to break the stigma. So it's kind of reaching a wide range and i'm the stigma of bipolar disorder yes yeah specifically yeah yeah that's a heavy one my dad's a bit of the bipolar really well yeah he is like the diagnosis seems to shift with him to accommodate right. I'm familiar with that. His desire to not take medicine. Yeah, that happens. That happens for sure. You know, because that mania is so good, right? Yeah, that's the thing.

And a lot of people who are creative types, like, really enjoy the mania. Yeah. Because sometimes you really do just, you're on cloud nine, and you think you can do everything on you know under the sun and you can lift a car if you tried but then it sort of um can get dangerous when you're like i'm gonna you know spend all my money i'm like online shopping and my family's money and my family's money i'm gonna get into a bad business deal i'm gonna gamble a little bit yeah then it's you know it's a very slippery slope and know, between that and like running into traffic because you're invincible. And, you know, it's a little, it can get scary.

How far were your poles apart? I mean, how did you have psychotic breaks? So there's like bipolar one and bipolar two. Bipolar one is the one that has like more of the psychotic breaks. And when I was very young, and I talk a little bit about an instance that scared me, I think I did identify more with bipolar 1 because there were sort of like delusions, I think, when I was younger. What classifies as a delusion? Because I'm usually in one. I might be having one now.

Yeah, sometimes you don't know if you're having it. I think it would just be like kind of paranoid delusions. And I talk about a moment when my family of five was like living in one motel room, like sharing a bed. I'm already paranoid. Just that amount of information. I'm terrified. We're all in trouble. Seriously.

And I think I like, I like was freaked out about looking into a mirror. And like, to me, I was like, oh, there's like another dimension in the mirror. And that's a different AJ. That's not me. And so like, I would have kind of moments like that growing up where it was first, it had its onset. But as I get older my diagnosis was bipolar 2 so it's a little bit more common yeah because i think it's sort of a fantasy

thing too like you know where does that lead it looks like a much more quiet and controlled place yeah i definitely like that to me escaping to the fantasy worlds was my only way out well as a child for sure well what was that what was the situation i mean you know you seem pretty well adjusted now in the four minutes that i've known you yeah i would think like she's got her shit together but but um i kind of want to backtrack though from the the the three championships and the character you because you fought under the name aj lee and that was always who you were right so but like my understanding of wrestling because i've talked to mcfoley i've talked to colt uh i've talked to

to punk but like someone like mick wasn't mcfoley like three or four mick foley mankind yeah yeah dude love right yeah like just name wise like legally they uh sometimes people would own the copyright to their name like like philip like own cm punk and so he's always been that um but sometimes they would um well most of the time they try to give you a new name so they can own it. And so you have to pick your new name. And mine was AJ Lee because a voice actress in an anime's last name was Lee. And I loved her. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And from the get go, like once you got in, you were sort of the kind of crazy diva or girlfriend or stalker or just like psycho chick. Yeah. I think, you know, there was a standard of like, all the girls were like Pamela Anderson, like perfect, curvy, like sex pots. And then I wasn't. And so the idea was, okay, well, then what do we do with her? Yeah. And also you're tiny.

Yeah. And they were maybe like really jacked and like, you know, these Amazonian goddesses and I'm not. And so it was like, OK, well, I don't know where to put her. And so it was I was a very geeky character, which I am in real life. But so they kind of took inspiration from that. And then it just became into, OK, well, you would probably stalk guys because, you know, it's always going to be like an unrequited love situation with you. You're the nerdy one. They're pitching you this stuff?

You sit in a room with who, Vince? How does this happen? It could be like a bunch of different people. So there's a whole board of creators. Yeah, there's like writers and they pitch their storylines and he picks it, like which ones he wants.

And there was one writer, Kevin Eck, who was like, okay, we're going to do like this Revenge of the Nerds love storyline with you and one of the other guys who's really nerdy. And then that just, it was right place, right time. They needed characters to be put into the main event scene. And the guy I was with, they pushed him to the main event scene.

I just happened to be along for the ride and got really lucky. Because you were part of the story. Yeah, because I was already part of it. And then it was, how do we keep this going? And so I turned to a crazy stalker. So that's really how it starts. It starts with stories. Yeah, definitely. And they've got their cast of characters, their Marvel universe, their WWE universe of characters.

Yes. And how do we get them all engaged and bring them back or turn them into bad guys or good guys. Because that happens in a career. You can be a heel and a face. Right? Yeah, and I've been both. But you're still AJ Lee. Yeah. But AJ Lee's somehow gone bad.

Yes. And then gone good. Somebody turned her. Oh, really? Yeah. And I imagine your fighting style is sort of like when a cat attacks a horse. That's so accurate. Like when you see those wildlife videos and you just see these giant animals and then like the leopard is going to take down a giraffe.

And it's just like on the back and just like, oh, she's going to annoy me to death. That's kind of my M.O. in life is just to annoy people to death. Is it? Yes. But yeah, definitely. kind of my mo in life is just to annoy people to that is it yes um but yeah definitely you know i i was never gonna throw girls around right overpower them or like you know be the jacked one and so i had to i was pretty jacked thank you i had to be very scrappy and you know sort of you know shyster and and uh you know and throw myself on people and that was like my finishing

move was like kind of wrapping myself around. So like your neck, like a scarf almost. Like just like this barnacle. Yes, very much, very much so. This aggressive parasite that you can't shake off. That's how my husband refers to me. How sweet, you and Phil. Okay, so I guess why I wanted to start there and the success you had.

And now that you're out in the world, you know, kind of exploring and sharing your experience as somebody who had real problems, that the character that you created was sort of a caricature of those problems. Yeah, I think you definitely and that was so they say like the best wrestling characters are are just an exaggerated version of yourself. Right. And I sort of stumbled into this character that was this exaggerated version of myself by accident because nobody knew I was bipolar. Did you? I knew I was bipolar when I was like 19, 20. Okay. And so it was kind of the secret that I, you know, didn't tell anybody and was ashamed of. And then I was this crazy chick character on TV. And I thought that was my way to sort of hide in plain sight. And every like bad instinct I would get with my bipolar, I was like, Oh, let me just put that on camera. And maybe this character will come off like really truthful.

Yeah, amp it up a little. Yeah, yeah. Like your impulses that you're like, better not do that unless I do it as AJ Lee. Yes, live on TV. Yeah, it was therapy for sure. That's inactive too and exhausting. Exercise is always good. Yes, definitely, definitely.

All right, so now going back, how were you in a family? There's four kids? Three kids and a giant dog. And two parents. Yes. That were together. Mm-hmm.

Now, how do you end up in a hotel room? I mean, what was the story? Where are you from? So we lived in New Jersey, sort of all over New Jersey. Really? What parts? I'm from New Jersey. Northern New Jersey?

Yeah. Like Hudson County? I'm from Morris County. Oh, really? So you're not too far. Pompton Lakes. My mother's from Pompton Lakes. And my dad's from Jersey City.

Jersey City. I live in Jersey City. Where's your family from? They're from Puerto Rico. Both your parents? Yeah. Were born in Puerto Rico? They were born in New York, but their family's born in Puerto Rico and they live in Puerto Rico now. So what was the story with the old man? What was he up to? So my parents just had like odd jobs.

You know, they never really had a solid career path. And so we just became sort of gypsies. And my dad was like a mechanic or a security guard or, you know, a bellhop or whatever he could really. Trying to get by. Yeah. And so that made us, you know, kind of go from place to place and get evicted like more than 20 times. So not having money, not managing money.

Right. Exactly. A tall order order how are you the youngest oldest i'm the youngest but i call myself the mom oh really how'd the other ones turn out they're good i mean like they're they're both married and they you know but i think i still feel like the caretaker of everyone so So there was chaos. Definitely. Yeah. I mean, my parents had kids when they were like 16, 15. Really? Yeah.

So they were kids raising kids. I don't know why I always say really like that. Like, why wouldn't I believe you? I think it's like, wow. What if the answer was like, no, not really. I knew it. I knew it. So your mom was 15?

My dad was 15. My mom was 16 when they started having kids. So they had to learn fast. You know, they had to, they were kids raising kids. So like so many of the things that were the first time I was going through them, you know, school wise or whatever, it was their first time too for a lot of it. Well, they were like 30 when you were like 10. I can't imagine that.

I mean, my mom would drop me off at school and people would be like, girls, get to class. And that's my mom. Yeah. And she was like, thank you. Yeah, oh yeah, there's a lot of that. But where was the, like in order for you to, like it seems to me that if you're the mom

that there must have been like some serious chaos. Because like, you're going to go either way. Like, if you're the kid of alcoholism or insanity, either you're going to be insane or you're going to be the one, I can make it better. It's going to, everything's going to be good. Yeah, definitely. You were that one? I was definitely the one that stressed the most. I think I was was like we'll be fine and i was like okay we're not gonna be fine we have to fix this i will fix this now and i was like eight you know yeah um so i

definitely went through my phase of being insane and breaking and you know going to absolute rock bottom and then kind of had to when you were a kid yeah i mean teens but like where like where does it come from like it what what were they up to what were what was your parents doing so my mother was undiagnosed bipolar um for i mean as long as i can remember um but got diagnosed at around 30 something maybe um and then medicated or no and then medicated she's medicated now she stay on it yeah thank god but it took a while and so right to get it right it does take a while definitely to find the right formula and it took a while for her to just get the treatment now when you were growing up how

did that manifest itself before diagnosis i mean what was her behavior like before you knew what it was it must have been just like what was the deal in bed for a long time? There are definitely days like that. But I always say that like bipolar disorder takes who you are and it kind of distorts it into something sort of like dark and twisted. And that's not you, but it's it comes from a core of something that is you. And so I was like the youngest one and like the you know i was always sick and so because she worried about me so much i became like the object of like her um aggression and we had a very you were the one draining her yeah and and it was a weird unhealthy relationship

where she was just very like emotionally and physically abusive toward me um in a weird way to try to protect me and fix me um so i wouldn't become her and really she was aware of that i think so it was very it was very much you know i look like her i look just like her because sometimes it's that they're so self-involved that if you're feeling bad and they're feeling good they take it as some sort of attack that like you know it's like why do you got to be feeling shitty on my good day right or vice versa if you're happy and they're sad they're like fuck you yeah because i think that's a you know i grew up with some of that that's a narcissistic thing and i think the bipolars have a little of that yeah you know that it's about their needs right then right and that's the hard thing like i think it's hard for the person who is bipolar, but it's so hard for the people around them who are trying to just live with that,

especially unmedicated. What's the old man doing? He is trying to get by and he's drinking. And, you know, and I think like they kind of would spend money for that was supposed to be on rent on other things. Party. Yeah. And, you know, and I never really believe when I was younger, I was angry at it. I was like an older. I was like, OK, they didn't have childhood. So they were like, OK, now we can have fun.

And, you know, and so, you know, I think, you know, we were the parents to them. You didn't. Yeah. No. Yeah. I know. Yeah. We'd like get Yeah. No. Yeah. I know. Yeah. We'd like get everyone to bed on time.

Were they any good at discipline or making decisions or doing any of that stuff? Oh, gosh. I mean. My parents were terrible at it. Yeah. They'd be like, I'd ask them if I could go somewhere and my mom would be like, do you want me to say no? Oh, man.

I'm like, wait, I thought you were in charge. Oh, man. you want me to say no? I'm like, wait, I thought you were in charge. man. Um, I think they were, they, it was a long time where they were too strict and it was, you know,

like if you, they wanted to kind of keep us pure and like untainted by the world for as long as possible. And to like, how do they do that when they're moving from hotel? Yeah, exactly. New Jersey place over and over again. Yeah.

And when I'm, you know, you're in like the, you know, around drug dealers and, you know. Oh, they were hanging out the house? Yeah, they were around. I stabbed someone. What? Yes. There's a story in the book about somebody that was like in that circle that knew my dad and was in that sort of drug circle and came to the house looking for him and looking for money. And I had to stab him through a window. Really? Your dad wasn't home? No one's home.

They left me on Christmas Eve. Where'd you get him? In the hand. Oh. Did it get him away? Yeah, yeah. And cops came and like my pit bull was going crazy. You had a pit bull when you were a kid?

Yeah. He was a little... How old were you? Gosh, at the time, 13, 14 maybe. You had a pit bull and a knife. Yeah. And those were your babysitters. Yes. Those are Puerto Rican babysitters. You got the dog, there's the knife. We'll be home later. Yep. It worked. It worked. And it made me tougher. I guess so.

But you said you were sickly? Yeah. When I was really young, I, you know, I was just the tiniest little thing and I was born premature. Yeah. And so those are just like many of the things that were like, okay, you're clearly never going to be an athlete. Oh, really?

Yeah. And so I think that was just the fun thing to like say, okay, I can, let me challenge that. You know, I can go from being the sickest person and like the weakest feeling so weak and tiny. But did you feel depressed and awful and like bleak or like, it seems like there's a lot of excitement around. It was never bored. That's for sure.

Yeah. bored that's for sure yeah um the depression started to to kind of manifest in me when i was um getting ready to like go to college and so like 17 all right so when did when did you start what did you do why wrestling when did you start to see that world as a as something you enjoyed or like where you claim you're a nerd. I mean, I guess you are. Are you? Yeah, I think for me. Yeah, what just, what means nerd to you? Well, to me, I think that it used to be this like derogatory term.

And there's so many of us that like grew up and like kind of had to like be ashamed of that. Like being like the things that we were into were into, it was a bad thing. It was embarrassing to like comic books and video games and anime. Was that your things? Yeah, they were. How did you get hip to those? Your brothers? I copied anything my brother did and then fell in love with it.

For me, it was kind of just a way to get out of the real world and feel strong in something. You know, there were girls that were like powerful in these things. Well, how old were you when you started reading that stuff? Probably like 10 or maybe a little younger. And your brother, he was into it? Yeah. He was like a video game comic book guy? Yeah, he's the gateway.

And wrestling? Yeah. And in wrestling, it was like, oh like oh you can they're real life like superheroes and so i was 12 when i when i decided i was gonna do it well who were your um comic book heroes i loved uh jean gray i loved her so much the dark phoenix saga was like something that um i would recreate with my barbie dolls Oh, really? Yeah, like recreate the suicide scene. Yeah. Like kids do.

Sure. Yeah, so I really enjoyed her. I loved Fantastic Four. Yeah. I loved Spider-Man. And then video games became like the next passage. And it was like Resident Evil and Final Fantasy and Metal Gear Solid. And then I found wrestling and it was like, oh, these people are real.

That was the transition. Yeah, that was definitely how it went. So you watch it on TV and you're like, look at those costumes. Look at them doing that shit. Yeah. Basically these characters come to life. Larger than life but human. Yeah.

Do you still play video games? I do. you and phil sit around and play video games he doesn't play but he watches me play like that's his like peace peaceful time he meditates by watching you play yeah yeah he kind of spaces out and he'll like you know nap and i'll just play video games for four hours do you ever spar no no he he will like it randomly in the street like pick me up and like take advantage of how tiny i am yeah and throw me over his shoulder you never wrestled no i mean i is that a thing in wwe do men and women wrestle each other so they used to more and then they um became like pg and so it wasn't very pg for guys to be hitting on girls. Didn't want to inspire that? Yeah.

But the girls were able to hit the guys. And so I always say like if we ever have kids, we can tell them our first kiss. I pushed him 10 feet through the air through a table. You did? I did. Yeah. It was on television. My character was stalking his character.

Okay. And then our first kiss, I like forced a kiss on him and then threw him through a table. Were you together at that time? No, we got together years after that. But we were friends. From the place. Yeah. We everybody knew each other in the little world of wrestling. All you freaks and gypsies. Yes. Alright, so you find that you decide at some point when you're 10 or so that it's possible to be a comic book character.

Right. Yeah, exactly. Now, what do you start to do? Do you start dressing up? I mean, I definitely broke furniture. Like I tried to like do flips and stuff into like onto a bed that was like a futon. So it was just wood on the bottom and broke that. So now you're destroying hotel rooms.

Yes. I thought it was like a way to, if I was getting like hit at home or put through like the ringer. Were you? Yeah. Who was hitting who? My mother was like the more physical one. And so in my twisted little child's head, I was like, okay, this is practice for wrestling. It's making me physically tougher.

Oh, so, well, that's not unhealthy. I guess it's one way to get out of it. Well, it's a coping mechanism. Yeah, definitely. That, you know, it was probably painful that your mother was physically abusing you. But in your mind at that point, you were empowered by the idea that forward thinking, that this can only make you stronger. And now you got to learn how to dodge. Yeah.

Really? Definitely. Everything from like 12 on. on well did you shut your practice right did you shut your emotions off though did you cry i think it was um for a lot of my childhood i was like this kind of like open wound and then once i found wrestling and like realized like physical strength was going to be important um i did kind of disassociate from that stuff. And probably not the healthiest way, but in a way that it felt like it was not really real,

and it was practice for being a superhero later on. Well, I think that's probably the healthiest way to disassociate. Right. As opposed to just leave your body and watch it get hurt. Right. And I did some of that, for sure. Yeah, there's some moments of that. No.

And it's just interesting when you're older and you can look back and you've studied this stuff. And you talk to psychiatrists and you're like, oh, that's what I was doing? Okay. But it seemed to have a form that served you. I guess that's a lucky break for you. Yeah, I did. that that served you i guess that's a lucky break for you yeah i did i it was it was good i was very lucky that i had something to kind of look forward to i guess like i have to get out of this house and i can go do that but did you you never got fucked up on drugs or booze

no so i was always very afraid of drugs because i had kind of seen the effects of it around me. And then the only time I was ever on painkillers is when I overdosed. How old were you? 19 or 20, 21. So you were in college? I had gotten kicked out of college. No, let's talk about that. So now you're an aspiring superhero with a pretty disturbing history of abuse and chaos. And where'd you end up going to college?

Because I loved, you know, the world of fantasy. I would write a lot and write my own like fantasy novels. And so I really wanted to get into like screenwriting. And I went to Tisch School of the Arts at NYU. Yeah. For a solid six months before they were like, oh, you have no more money. wanted to get into like screenwriting and i went to tish school of the arts at um nyu yeah um for solid six months um before they were like oh you have no more money please leave and um how'd you get in there on a scholarship and scholarships yeah um and yeah you kicked ass in high school i did i did really well i kind of forced myself to i wasn't very naturally good at school but i

wanted to but you could wrangle it. Yeah. Yeah, coming from your family, you got to keep that shit together. I just have to apply myself, right? Yes, it was definitely. I was good at like bullshitting my way through some stuff that I didn't know, you know, like science projects and shit like that. That's hard to bullshit through science.

I figured a way out to like present really well. Yeah? Were you wearing superhero costumes? That would have been awesome if it was just like my entire high school career. All your science presentations

were like magic tricks. Look over here. But it was definitely, you know, like, what do they say? Those like snake oil salesmen?

Sure. There's one running the country yes that was me in high school no it's a classic american uh disposition oh god the huckster but that's what yeah but in a lot of ways that is you know wrestling indulges all of that oh definitely in a in a spectacle as opposed to an actual system of government. But there's no shortage of bullshit artists in this country. But that was, you know, so to me, like being creative and writing stories, that was where I wanted to go. And so I started studying that.

Yeah. So you're in school and you have not, you're like, you're not diagnosed yet. No, right when I get kicked out is when I got diagnosed. So was your behavior questionable? Like, were you experiencing mania in that? Yeah, I think I, my mania was different in, it was manifesting itself mostly in like paranoia. And so like, I would would it was hard for me to like leave my dorm room um i would like walk up to the door and like i there was like a power

in the handle of the door and i couldn't touch it and it was just too much that i would start having a panic attack thinking like seeing people thinking yeah it was just very straight like magical thinking you know yeah it's yeah it felt like the world could see, was like looking at me and like kind of shaming me for being poorer than all the other students. Was there a conspiracy against you? Maybe a little. I felt like any time I went to like the lunchroom, everyone was like, oh, poor girl, you know. And it was very uncomfortable, just always. And I was always on edge.

But you never got that. When I was at my worst mentally, there was drugs involved, though. I thought that I was being selected by forces that were unknown to me. I was literally living in a comic book. That I was going to be given a task that was going to play itself out in a pretty big way. I just wasn't clear. Oh, my God. Thank God I never got the directions. going to be given a task that was that was going to play itself out in a pretty big way i just wasn't clear oh my god thank god i never got the direction you might still i don't know someone might show up at your door never say never uh you know you remember we were after you back when

you were 22 time to pay oh man there's definitely like other like thinking outside of yourself we're like oh i'm having these thoughts, you know, there's something else in control. Right. There's a weird way of thinking. Oh, you had that. Yeah. Yeah. And I just didn't realize that.

I didn't know what bipolar disorder was. So it took me a while. So bipolar, with bipolar, that is, is that still called mania, that kind of weird mystical paranoia thing? I think they separate it between depressive cycles and manic cycles. Okay, so it's part of the manic cycle. Yeah, the up cycle is the manic cycle. Some people love them.

So, yeah. No, I've seen it. I've seen the love of the manic cycle. Right. Yeah. It's not real capable of love, the manic cycle. It's a very self-serving thing, that thing. But so did that play into you fucking up in college, do you think?

I had like straight A's and I just didn't have enough money. That's a shame. And it definitely was at the time I thought it was the end of the world, but it worked out because that i started training to wrestle so what about getting help where did this um so you get kicked out of school and you talk about this painkillers did you ever go see a shrink why not yeah so my at the time my mom was really having a breakdown um right when i went to school i think just like being on her own and you you know, her baby was gone.

And so I, at the time, NYU was known as the jumper school because so many kids were like jumping from like the library and killing themselves. Yeah. They had to put like fencing up in the library so people would stop jumping from like the top floor of the library. No kidding. I didn't know that. Yeah.

And they had to like bolt all the windows because people were jumping out of their dorm rooms and because new york is just can can be a very lonely place especially if you're you know 18 and alone um and so there was like posters everywhere in school that said don't jump like really dramatically yeah yeah and um and there was like like hotlines and like um they the school would basically help you get the counseling if you needed it. And so that was sort of the first step when I was still in school trying to figure that out. Never when you were a kid. A house full of sickos. But no one believed in mental illness.

And so they just thought, okay, she's in a bad mood. Yeah, exactly. You were weak if you believed in it. And that's part of the stigmatization. Yes. That is a general disposition towards any kind of mental illness or addiction problems that there's just sort of like, pull it together, man. Yeah. So you grew up with that.

You grew up with like drugs and booze and an undiagnosed bipolar and everyone's like, we're keeping it together. Why can't you keep it together toughen up you pansy boy don't you realize you're part of the problem yes yeah that was definitely it and and then once i realized my mother was like beyond help and like i was like okay i'm starting to learn about like depression and stuff i thought i was going to therapy like counseling to help her. And I didn't realize that like I was going, I didn't realize I was also going through it. Well, have you,

have you looked into codependency? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Does that stuff resonate with you too? Definitely. I mean, we, my mother and I had both overdosed and were hospitalized in the same year.

Oh, we should have done it together. I know. We should have just held hands and Thelma and Louise did it. Give me the rest of them. Oh, God. It's just, you know, you see something and you're so afraid of it. And then that is what you end up becoming. You know, you kind of can write your own self-fulfilling prophecy sometimes well but that's

the tricky thing also with mental health is that there there's a self-fulfilling prophecy but there's also like the wiring of who you are you know it there's a there's a biological component and then there's a environmental component component and both of them are equally as powerful in my belief i'm no clinician but you know once those things are set in yeah all you can do is act against them and hope it sticks you know on a behavioral level yeah right like don't do that don't ruin this yes don't don't fuck this up right right so you have to have that self-talk. But the biological component, the chemical component, it's harder to identify. Right? Definitely.

So when you say you overdosed, I mean, what led up to the pills? Why were you taking them? I had just started. I'd get kicked out of school and I was going to see. It was sort of this like perfect storm. I got kicked out of school. I started wrestling training. I broke my my foot where do you start wrestling training where do you say like i'm ready for my outfit so you i got really lucky and there happened to be a school uh like maybe

like a mile away from where my apartment was when new york in new jersey where was this now um this was in union city new jersey okay Like there was a wrestling school. Yeah. Like a clown college? Yeah. It's basically like if you have some sort of skill in wrestling, you can open a school. There's no license or anything you need. You could just put up a ring and say, hey, pay me money and I'll train you.

Well, there's a whole world of wrestling that Phil sort of came backyard shit. Yeah. it's like a step up from that and then when you train in you know on your own um and like these things that are not wwe related you do the independent circuit and it's like the smaller like bingo halls and vfw halls and um high school gyms and stuff like that right that that's the the old school kind of like meat and potatoes yeah wrestling not getting paid there's like six people in the crowd and you know you just you just do it for the experience sort of a little what you see in the wrestler the film right and there is definitely

a feel of like it being a little bit hokier a little bit more of like exactly what we saw when we were growing up yeah a call back to that like the macho man days um when you are on the indie is it's definitely more of that and it's a little bit of an awakening a rude awakening when you get onto the main roster and you're like oh they don't do it that way but it seems like those older ones there's more blood oh my god yeah that's definitely a thing that they like cut out um just because it was pg but like i remember being in developmental and like my tooth went through my face and I was bleeding everywhere. And I was like, this is the coolest thing.

This is what I used to watch. Yeah, I thought it was the coolest thing. Yeah, because I remember those wrestling magazines. When I was a kid, I'm 53, but I'd go down to the drugstore and get my mom cigarettes and they'd have those pro wrestling magazines. And every week on the cover,

it was just some guy covered in fucking blood and another guy holding his head oh my god it was crazy and i was like i don't know how or why i did not gravitate towards that then i was just sort of like what the fuck it was always like next to the true crime magazines there were true crime magazines we just saw a corpse oh god you know no but not like graphic but then there'd be the wrestling magazine. It's just like bloody guys with blonde hair, you know, it's making their hair pink.

Yeah. It's just a mess. Oh, but anyway, so getting back to clown college and wrestling school. So who runs this wrestling school? Just like old, like people who have trained and maybe they did something with the WWE at some

point or one of the smaller federations. It's basically like anyone can do it. Maybe they did something with the WWE at some point or one of the smaller federations. It's basically like anyone can do it. Like I trained in a building that is now condemned and got knocked down. And, you know. So now when you do this, now this is the thing, not unlike, like if you're going to box, you're going to fight. So, you know, there's a skill set that's required in boxing that ultimately is spontaneous. You know, it's a sport. Now, when you're doing wrestling, I imagine that there's a series of basic moves that become more like a dance routine almost.

Yeah. Or certain things that, you know, you kind of have a series. Like, it's more like uh uh there's a what what am i looking at you're not you have to train physically obviously to be in shape to do it but you're really going there to learn the ballet of wrestling yeah definitely i always i always say it's like the love child of like cirque de soleil and snl because there is so much you can you can choreograph and prepare for and you guys have to be a team. And you have to make it look like you're murdering each other while saving each other's life at multiple points during the match.

Right. But then you also have to adjust on the fly and just make stuff up if something goes wrong or if the timing's off. Or if the crowd doesn't like what you had planned and you have to change it right then and there. You have to be able to now talk to your opponent without anyone surrounding you hearing, um, and you're surrounded on all sides. So like,

it's impossible to have a conversation. So you do it in headlocks. Yeah, you do. There's like a, there's definitely this art form to like, as I'm lifting you and you're passing right by me and I can say, you know,

Oh really? Like a shortened language that you use. Oh really? Yeah. So, um, and that, so you have to learn that.

And so it's this combination. You learn those in basic? You learn those as you go along. Like I think at the end of your career. The more experience you get. But that's not, like what are the, you go to the wrestling school

and what's day one like? Day one was like 200 bumps. Have you taken a bump in your, have you trained at all when you were doing the show no i'm not supposed to know anything about it i lucked out i'm a i'm a hack film director who got saddled with the job of making a women's wrestling show okay okay so a bump is like um if you've seen the matches it's when you fall on your back and like you um basically i saw them do

it okay yeah so it's basically a way that you hit the ground maybe like 30 times in one match, but you make the loudest noise you can make. So it looks like your body's like breaking, but you protect your head and your spine and your hips. And it's a way to like flatten out. So that's lesson one, falling. Yes. Lesson one really is falling, right?

Yeah. Because that's the basis of everything in wrestling is just falling down. So now when you went to this school after NYU, after you're going to be a screenwriter right this is really this was your real dream this was like i definitely was like okay which one is going to take off but this was the one that was my childhood dream for sure so now i was like okay this is where i was supposed to be so when you got there you're like hell yeah yeah i mean it nearly killed me i got like pneumonia after the first week because my body i was like 90 pounds i had never lifted a weight were you anorexic too no god no i love food way too much yeah um but i looked it yeah i looked really sick

and uh and i could not handle like falling that many times but you weren't depressed yet this was yeah i was i mean i was in and out for sure and wrestling was like a bit of a reprieve and then when i got hurt that's when i got prescribed painkillers and i had also just started with the pneumonia what got hurt i broke my foot you broke your foot doing what a backflip off of someone's back and it was basically a guy like this is at school? At the wrestling school? Yeah.

So you're already down. You're out for the season. Yeah, it's out for a little while. And they gave you what, oxys? Well, I always make sure I never tell people the formula

because I don't want people to try it themselves. But you were prescribed. It was a painkiller. You were prescribed a painkiller for your foot. Yeah. You're not feeling great.

Yeah. And I just happened to get hit with a painkiller for your foot. Yeah. You're not feeling great. Yeah. And I just happened to get hit with a depressive cycle at the exact same time. And I had antidepressants also. Yeah, where'd you get those from? The NYU doctor? I started there like a counselor through school. And then I started going on my own to a psychiatrist and a therapist. And so, yeah, I had that and I was afraid of it and had it in a drawer and didn't look

at it. So you had the diagnosis? Yeah. No, I was diagnosed as depressed, not bipolar. Yeah. So they're giving you the standard Prozac-y whatever. Yeah. And the problem is when you're bipolar, you cannot take antidepressants.

It just makes it 10 times worse. Right. Because it doesn't, like my understanding, or it used to be the thinking was you had to you know do something to level the baseline of the depression and then start to bring the poles together something yeah it's basically you have to find that balance but antidepressants just shoot you through the roof and that's certain ones right yeah and so it's complete opposite of what you need and so what it ends up doing is making you way more depressed and And it was just kind of the perfect storm of waking up one day in a really deep depressive cycle and not realizing I was in it and just saying, oh,

I'm in a lot of pain. Let's make this pain go away. But like, I don't always know what depression is for myself so because like if you have bipolar 2 or you're dysthymic which i've been diagnosed as both um you know it's sort of like it's just the way your brain works so you're like you know like is doesn't everyone full of dread right isn't everybody doesn't everybody see how bleak it is yeah i mean now i know i know the difference now because i've been it's been 10 years of like therapy and medicine and everything now i'm like oh it's just a depressive cycle but at the time i was like oh the world is ending well what what characterized that i mean what was the feeling exactly so for me physically it was like there was like i felt heavier and i would like

wake up and just feel like i was like covered in like like a lead blanket and there was a cloud over my head right and i couldn't taste food and i couldn't sleep and it was just like oh i'm completely broken like and i didn't have an answer for that right at the time i was told it was depression yeah um and so i just was like, how do I make the depression go away? This bottle? Uh-huh. And, yeah,

and I, it was just the same day and I got this like splitting headache and I was just having this weird depressive cycle and it, I made the wrong choice

and ended up overdosing. But it was a choice. You were like, I'm gonna do myself in. So I definitely, I'd like to, like i'm gonna do myself in so i definitely i'd like to like i when i talk about it now i do say it's like my it was my suicide attempt yeah but in the moment and i think for so many people it there it's shades of gray you don't you just want to make a pain stop and you don't know what you're sometimes you're not in control

and you're just doing what feels right to make you feel better right there in the moment and maybe you don't care if you live or die that's different um and it's a little different because you don't really know in the moment right and so i in the book i try to say like i didn't know at the time if it was a suit like i call it that now but at the time i wasn't sure but i thought they should have treated it like it was a suicide attempt and they didn't that you were in so much existential pain yeah and then also on top of the physical pain that you got sloppy yeah definitely and i just said okay this you know this will make me feel better and uh you know the hospital was just like okay you know you just you accidentally overdosed on these painkillers how Well, how'd you get, what happened? Did you call the fucking ambulance? No, so I got really lucky.

I was living with my sister at the time, and I can't even, like, remember taking everything, but I took everything, and was just kind of, like, throwing up on myself, like, laying on the floor in the living room. My sister came home and just threw me in her car and took me to the hospital and they you know saved my life and pumped your stomach yeah the whole the whole shebang where i just remember waking up and

i had track marks on my arms um from everything that had been stuck into my arms um and it was just these black lines and it was just like my shame lines like oh look what you did to yourself um and so that was my wake-up call into like getting a proper diagnosis because I realized, OK, it's not depression. I didn't react well. You know, something's wrong here. And my mom had just got was also diagnosed with depression accidentally, you know, mistakenly, and then was just diagnosed with bipolar disorder.

So I realized, OK, that's me, too. Yeah, it does travel, right? Yeah, it's definitely genetic. All right. So now you get the proper diagnosis and now they start trying the pills. Yeah. Let's see which ones work. You know, if you start swearing your speech or you can't wake up, it might not be the right dosage. Yeah. And that's what scares people because it feels like an uphill battle to like find your right dosage. But like once you get past that, like sometimes it can be six months for people. Sometimes it can be two months.

Sometimes it's way longer. I don't know. For me, it was just the right amount of time where like I could get through it. And at first- And your foot's healing. Yes. And you know, you feel like a robot sometimes

and then you feel like maybe it's not, you know, it's too much for you, but you find the right combination of like the right medicine for you, the particular brand, dosage, all that stuff. And then the other stuff too, like working out really helped me, like getting endorphins into my system,

just having like a job, having a purpose helped me. Well, when did you get that gig? So now you're getting on medicine, you're balancing out the medicine, you're doing the wrestling school. But when did, you know, what was the audition process for WW? What was it, F at that time? I think it just turned, it was WWE.

Yeah, for a couple of years at that point. So they would have a camp every year. And if you were on the independent circuit, you could like pay them to try out. But you were doing the independent circuit. I was doing the independent circuit. So you went to school for how many years wrestling school a two and a half years and that and then you started professional wrestling like pretty much simultaneously you train and you try to because you right so you meet people and it's sort of like can i get on that ticket kind of deal kind of like comedy like you're like yeah is there a space is there like

do you want to do a fight with me is that what you say yeah is there a girl on you need a girl for the show because those are very rare you know to have girls on the show and um so yeah you definitely just kind of wheel and deal and and you don't get paid anything but it's just you get experience yeah um you get to try shit out yes see that's where you get to make your mistakes and nobody really sees it except a room full of whatever comes like six people oh really oh yeah sometimes that many yeah that i mean i didn't mean that but like only that many yeah yeah so it's a lot like comedy yeah and it's you know i think those are like the the the character building years for sure. But you're not really worried about story as much as you are just the practical moves.

Yeah, it's really just not being afraid in front of a crowd of six people. But just like performing, you know, and not really, you know, just getting like the basics out there when it's like scary and the pressure's on. So how much had you done by the time you went to the camp? I had not much.

I probably only had like 20 matches under my belt, maybe less than. And paid to try out. And everyone in the indies is like, oh, it's just a ripoff. They just want your money. It's, you know, who pays? Who says, give me money and I'll let you try out. But for me, it was. Everybody.

Yeah. For me, it's like, hey, they're going to be there, right? They're going to see us, Right. So it's an opportunity. And in my racket, it's sort of like if you bring 10 people, you can go on stage. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of bringership. Yeah. That's sort of what you know, you have to invest in yourself ultimately. And so that's what it felt like. And I saved for a whole year. I missed the first one, saved money for a whole year, and then paid to try out and got signed. Who does that? Does Vince do that? It's basically the producers and agents and the people who do the hiring, like the talent department. Yeah, they signed me.

It was a group of like 70 guys. And then what happens? Did you know the women wrestlers? Were there still women that you watched when you were a kid wrestling? No, there were some, but they were already on the main roster. And so when you get signed, you go to developmental, which is like the minor leagues. But there were still some working that you looked up to? Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Beth Phoenix. She was one of the ones that started to break the mold. And all the girls were like Pamela Anderson, but she was like pamela anderson like jacked like wonder woman um so it was she was really interesting to me did you get to meet her i got to wrestle her for her last match oh really yeah and she was at my tryout too and and gave me like words of encouragement and i'm not kidding so that was exciting so knew her like, when did you like watch her when you were like 13 or something? I've watched her. Not,

maybe I was like 17, 16, 17. And so that just like, we overlapped each other and that like worked out really well for me. So like, what is that YouTube video of you crying when you met? Which wrestler was that?

so that's Lita. She didn't, she wasn't wrestling at the time, but she was like in and out. And I met her backstage one time. And i was like uh you might not remember this but this is us meeting when i was a infant um and and that was so important to me because if she had been like a dick that day like when i was a kid like maybe i wouldn't have wrestled god maybe 12 i it's so where'd you find that footage? I had them find it.

When I was first signed, there was a competition show they put us into. And I told them that I had been to one of her signings. And I had been to a WrestleMania, lined up for tickets. And they have footage of that. They just had it. Yeah, they keep an archive. It's really cool. And they dug that up. Yeah. yeah it's so touching yeah because like for me like if she was mean to me

as a kid like but she was maybe wouldn't have done it you know she was your hero yeah she was definitely one of the girls that was like hey it's okay to be different it's okay to like be the underdog yeah and you can you know make your own way when you you know if if you make it there and so that that recording is so moving it definitely like changed it changed my life you know it could have gone one way or the other and she was luckily really cool um and then when i like met her in real life she was like oh that was cool you know know, and it's got to feel weird for her. But you don't understand. You don't understand. I love you. But it's cool.

So, like, I'll do signings now and, like, people will do, like, little split screens of, like, picture of me meeting her and, like, a picture of, like, a little kid coming up and meeting me and, like, crying. And it's, like, blows my mind. But, you know, you hope that this keeps going. Yeah. So how long did it take for you to get from, what's the entry level stage? It was FCW at the time. So it's like a developmental. Uh-huh.

And when did you cross over in the big leagues? It was like two and a half years in developmental, which is longer than normal. And what do you do in developmental? You just train every single day. And all day long. You just watch tape. You go to the gym. You do like little shows that kind of reminiscent of the indies.

Well, were you now because of your size and your weight, were you developing a style? Were you conscious of that? Because it seems that whatever your signature moves were, they were completely relative to tactics that you had to employ to make the winning convincing. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't like a power bomb anybody. No, it was. I think like a lot of the time it was it'd be hard because people would be like, well,

I wouldn't if she hit me, I wouldn't fall because she's so tiny. And then it's like, OK, well, if I threw you against the ropes, you probably wouldn't run right back at me. Like there's a suspension of disbelief in wrestling. No, I get that. But still, like you do have to find stuff that makes it believable and for me that was flying at people like a spider monkey that's all i could do what did you know the day you figured that out or was it a natural evolution

um i think it was in like training school in like the indies when i realized oh i can't i'm not strong enough to lift people everyone's bigger than me uh i have to figure out a different way to kind of be like the scrappy one in case if i ever do want to like you know believably win a match yeah um so it was just like flying at people and doing more aerial stuff or just like sneaky underhanded stuff or submission moves where i could wrap around um right yeah yeah And did you choke people out? From their shoulders? I did. I did have some submission ones that were like a sleeper hold and stuff like that.

Yeah. Like they couldn't get you off? Yeah. And then they just started to happen? Yeah. I got to watch more wrestling. Were you aware of the Glow Girls? It's a little bit before my time but we were all especially in developmental um the girls in our group we we had watched the documentary about them um together and that was

sort of like a bonding experience and just to see what what it had been for women at one point the first wave of that yeah so that was that was really cool like that's a just a different world yeah it was it's sort of interesting you know that you know they came from all different factions and yeah uh so all right so so you wrestle you develop a style you become a wrestling star you win three championships you're on medication the whole time nobody knows nobody knows when did you come go public with that? A few months ago. Yeah. With this book. Yeah.

I just when I knew I was going to retire and I knew the next step was to start writing because that that was, you know, what made me feel strong before wrestling did writing. I knew that the message I did want to send was talking about mental health. And so the book is called Crazy is My Superpower. Yeah. about mental health and so it was sort of the book is called crazy is my superpower yeah yeah and so i needed to kind of put my money where my mouth is and and show the side of myself that i always kept hidden and i i just didn't want to like blindside people and have the book come out and have them learn about it for the first time then yeah so i like wrote like a post on my website about like okay hey this has been going on you know since i was like 19 and you know and i think

it's a strength i think it helps you see the world in different colors and um and so this is what my book is going to be about don't be surprised and what was the response immediately oh my gosh i was so scared i thought you know it's the internet you think that everyone's just gonna shit on you no just men that's just dick pics that's those still come yeah um but um no i know women can be awful too but my my experience with like even when we had comments on the website here is that if i talk to almost any woman that there's just what i call an army of unfuckable hate nerds that that you know just like they just live to shit on chicks. Yeah, yeah.

It's like an ever-present wave of that. Yes. Constantly. It would be like, I just have women in here, comedians or whatever, and no one hardly ever went to my comment board. But as soon as I had a woman on, it was just like this onslaught of garbage men.

An antenna went up oh yeah yeah yeah time to shit on a chick so but it's so but i know women are you know can be pretty vicious but but that was not the predominant reaction right yeah surprisingly and um the coolest part of it was like people i had known for years um people who were like really close friends um were like we're either saying i i love someone who is bipolar and i've never talked about it or i am bipolar and i've never talked about it or i have depression and i've never talked about it and so like it sort of opened up like people that have been ashamed to talk about it are now like okay now i can go to aj and talk about it it and that's like the coolest thing in the world to me that's all I wanted it to come out of

writing this book yeah and yeah man you offer sort of suggestions to that I think what it really comes is people get isolated within themselves you know so they're out in the world you know feeling like they're you know fucked up and alone and they have to hide all this stuff. But you're able to sort of show that it really makes you a unique individual, not necessarily that if you treat your illness, that all those things that make you unique can be proactive. Yes, definitely.

To me, I think that the world only talks about mental illness when it's too late, when either someone's like killed themselves or has had a breakdown or is there some sort of like drama and salaciousness involved? And so people are like, don't want to be associated with it in that way. me i think like the first step is just like finding someone to be to talk about it too um accepting it and like treating it because my life didn't start until i started treating it um and then the whole world opened up um but also to realize that like it's not this like curse it can it can be a gift it is i you know it's all a superpower yeah and it's treatable you can harness it and live every day healthily. And really, there is always help available if you look for it. Definitely. There are people out there that will want to help you, friends or family.

And if it's not, there's medical professionals. There's options. There's so many options. Yeah, and there's free options. It's just that you don't have to be isolated with it. Now, what is your experience with other people in wrestling? Because comedy is sort of a bunch of misfit people. And as I look through the book, I started to think,

is wrestling sort of a bunch of kind of weird, unique individuals that don't fit into regular society as well? Oh, yeah. I mean, like, who, like, what kind of group of people is like, oh, I want to wear spandex and, like, fight crime. I guess it's a stupid question. No, it's not. But it's definitely, like, you have to be so peculiar to say, I'm going to do this.

I'm going to be, like, the closest thing to a real-life superhero. Yeah. There's either something in you that, you know, wants to feel safe or wants to feel strong you never did um or you want to you know just be like the good guy or there's definitely something a little broken in all of us i think yeah right and then the beautiful thing about that world no matter how exploitive it might be on a business level is that it does function as a community yeah and that's that's the cool thing is that like you you better get along because you're on the road 300 days a year and you know five days a week and all these hours spent together like you have to become

a family or it's just miserable right yeah and the thing about phil or punk is that now did you really steal him from another wrestler or was that just gripped no okay so i stalked him in real life that's a real life no in the show i stalked him and like three other guys at the same time and i had i had kind of i think i like broke one guy's heart and went to another guy in the show in the show in real life we were friends for a long time and then we're uh then we dated and got married really fast we get married in like four or five not as not as dramatic as the show. No, no. Well, yeah, I'm glad you're doing what you're doing. The book's great.

You seem good. Say hi to Phil for me. I will. You feel all right about this? Yeah, definitely. I think, I'm sure he'll listen. We listen to you all the time on our car rides. He knows all this.

He knows, yeah, he's over it. No, he's really cute and been supportive and like been watching every interview i have and oh good yeah so he'll definitely tune into this and tell him to be careful for christ's sake i know oh gosh i know i want to talk to him in a year when he realizes this real fighting business with some unresolved childhood bullshit oh i think i think he would say like his life just with like a Puerto Rican girl from New Jersey is more dangerous in his everyday life. Okay.

So. All right. Well, thanks for talking. Thank you. A lot of perseverance in that story. I was really nice to hang out with her. And I actually like maybe I could double date. Me and Sarah could go out with AJ and Punk someday.

Are they here in Chicago? I wonder. You know what? I can do this off mic in my own head. All right. I got to go to work. I'll probably talk to you on Monday. Back in the garage.

All right? All right. Boomer lives! You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. We'll be right back. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th

at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com.