WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 814 - Danny Fields / J Mascis

Episode Date: May 24, 2017

Danny Fields is a music manager, a publicist, a magazine editor, a writer, and a conduit to some of the greatest artists ever, including Andy Warhol, the Velvet Underground, the Doors, the Ramones, and many others. Danny takes Marc through a his experiences during a half-century of cutting edge music and pop art and also explains his role in an infamous Beatles controversy. Also, guitar legend J Mascis stops by to hang out, talk about Adele, and play some tunes. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. what the fuck buddies what the fucking istas what the fuck tuckians what the fuck nicks what's

happening i'm mark maron this is wtf my podcast welcome to the show today on the show jay mascus drops by literally he just wanted to come by but i i mean to me that is a an honor and it makes me feel good he didn't have anything to really promote he just wanted to chat play a couple songs so look forward to that coming up me and jay mascus dinosaur junior if you don't uh if you're like who the fuck is jay mascus oh also on the show danny fields i tried to wrangle about 50 years of rock history into a conversation with danny who's not always following a straight line but uh he is like he's like punk rock rock zeleg man he was he was there at the juncture of some of the most important turning points of modern rock fucking music danny fields and i was happy he was out here

i wrote his mind i you know i held on and we uh we we got somewhere got a lot of places got interesting email today eureka i'm manic hi mark 40 something long island artist type living in socal i enjoy your podcast for your relatable guests and the memories of the tri-state area wtf is like an east coast slice of pizza. Thank you. Nice thin crust. I recently listened to the AJ Mendez Brooks interview and had a eureka moment. Holy shit, I'm bipolar. Everything completely made sense to me. Like the scene when Ed Norton found out he was also Brad Pitt in Fight Club. Recollections of manic episodes raced through my mind. Like this one time I was rifling through my trunk for an ice scraper during a New York blizzard, and four days later my car is overheating

in California. No job, no plan, and no resolve for the mania. I used to refer to these moments as firecrackers. They are fun to play with, slightly dangerous, bright, loud, then go away. Afterward, the smoke, it's a mess, it smells, and always always costs money i'm going to take a pause and look at myself i'll let you know how things go keep it up you're changing lives signed tyler durden anyway let me tell you this story look i'm no like i don't see myself as a celebrity. You know, I'm a mid-level guy who works at home, sometimes does some on-camera stuff, also gets out on stage a lot.

But, you know, I'm just a working stiff in the big business of show. You dig? Whatever experience I've had here in the garage with with very famous brilliant not so brilliant and famous people that have come through here once i sit down after about 10 minutes i can kind of you know manage myself you know manage uh whatever fanness i i might have fandom or just like you know people become people very quickly, you know, and it just, and I know that, I know that, but here's what happened, it was, you know, it was pretty exciting, I guess, I don't know if it was exciting, it was weird, because I don't live the life, I'm not living the life, yeah, I don't know if you know that,

but I'm not living the life, okay, like, I, here's what I assume, I assume people who are living the life yeah I don't know if you know that but I'm not living the life okay like I here's what I assume I assume people who are living the life don't ever have to unplug things to plug other things in and that it's a weird thought I always have when I'm trying to plug in my burr grinder and also my blender can't do it gotta unplug one to plug in the other and I always think at that moment you know people who are living the life, they got plenty of plugs and everything's in its own place and it all works together.

And it's just a beautiful, clean and easy move through the world for the people that are living the life. Plenty of plugs. Anyway, I go to the U2 concert. Now, I don't go to many concerts. You know that.

But I got offered some tickets to go see U2 here at the Rose Bowl. Dan Cook over at Gimme Gimme Records was actually the best guy to go with. Dan and I went. And at the last minute, the publicist sent me a parking pass. So it was like, all right, now I'm living the life. We are just cruising down through cop checkpoints directly into the parking lot. No other cars. There's a special lane for people living the life and we're in it. Dan and I are living the life, parking at the Rose Bowl to see you too. So we go in, we get our

seats. They're nice seats. They're not on the field, which is all standing. They're seated and they're like stage right. And we can see the big screens. We can see everything. It's nice out. It's beautiful. You know, got a lemonade, sitting around,

talking about music and we're waiting. And then the Luminaires come on. It's okay. You know, I like them. It's a country band. It seems like it to me. I don't know what people are calling them, but it seemed like pretty solid kind of folk country stuff.

Enjoyed it. About midway through the Luminaire's, Luminaire's, I get a text from the publicity people. They're like, hey, we're going to come down and give you a pass to the Desert Lounge. I'm like, all right. I don't know what that is.

So Steve from the publicity place, he comes over, gives me a Desert Lounge pass, and, you know, we were pretty comfortable there having a lemonade, talking music and the beautiful night waiting for you to listen to the luminaires. But, you know, we go with Steve to the desert lounge. Now, the desert lounge is just a big tent with a bunch of people in it. And I don't know what we're doing there. It's like, you know, it's not like the special, special room. It's just a room with people who are affiliated or paid some money or family, friends, whatever,

hanging out in a big bar setting in a tent that they're conditioned, which was nice. Someone told me they just saw, you know, Scott Ackerman and Adam Scott. And I'm like, I know those guys. Where are they? I don't know where they are. They're not here anymore.

I said, well, let's just go back out, man. I was in the zone. I was sitting in an arena. I was waiting for the band. I was like in the zone. I liked it outside. I don't want to, I don't know who these people are. It's like a fucking nightclub. I go tell Steve, like, thanks for the desert lounge pass. And we're going to go back out to the arena. And he's like, well, don't you want to, don't you want to meet the, meet you too? And I'm like,

what? He's like, yeah, I mean, they're going to do a little meet and greet, I think in about 15 minutes. I mean, Bono's not, cause he's taking care of his voice, but I think the other guys are. I'm like, I don't know. What for? I can't interview him here. I don't know. And he looked at me worried. I'm like, what am I? I'm an idiot. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah, I want to. I can do that. I don't have to go sit out there in the arena. and then we walk through this little tunnel area backstagey looking you know locker room kind of into a room that's hot all i know is what we were just an air conditioned room and now we're walked into a room full of people and it's hot as fuck like a sauna hot and i'm like what is this and all of a sudden my eyes just start looking around and i like i do

a little like 180 look and i'm like, that's Sean Penn on the couch. Sean Penn on the couch. Sean Penn's just sitting there talking to people. Now, look, I don't care how many people I've had in here or what you think of anybody. You know, when I see movie stars, I act like a person who's seeing a movie star. And I'm like, well, I don't tell my face to do that because I'm a professional. But inside I'm i'm like fucking sean penn look at him look at his face it's sean penn's face he's like a uh you know a little sean penn's old face with his mustache and and like and then i start scanning around i'm like what the fuck is happening in here there's oh there's julia roberts what is going on in here and then i see ocherman and adam scott i'm like okay i know those guys so i go over there i'm like what's up hey we're chit-chatting around

then i start looking around i'm like holy fuck isn't josh brolin is that josh brolin and jesus christ what is this place so then i'm like holy shit there's sasha baron cohen so i know him because he was on the show so i started talking to sasha baron cohen then jimmy kimmel comes over we're talking about his kid who's doing all right and then patricia arquette who's been on the show she says hi and it's like oh my god this is it this is a big time celebrity holding pen. And I'm just always surprised. Like I could not stop looking at the side of Josh Brolin's head because I think he's a great actor. And my brain is sort of like, he's just a dude. I'm like, yeah, but God damn it. He was good. No country for old men. Come on, come on. Hail Caesar, please. Whatever. I have a natural

fan reaction to movie stars and actors that I like and I'm fighting it I'm fighting it I'm doing okay with the fight I'm talking it was nice to talk to people that I knew in here who who know me and that was fun to be but I'm not that level I'm not living the life I'm you know I'm really uh uh on some level just a guy who works out of his house. And I was excited. And Dan had never been, he was like, you know, he was hiding his shit better than me, just acting normal around these highly celebritized people. But at some point, me and Dan pull away.

And it happened. It just happened. You know, I'm scanning the room, not really scanning it because I've already taken it in. And then the edge comes out. And then I'm like, there's the edge. Maybe I should go say hi. Oh, he's talking to Matt Damon. I don't know Matt Damon. I'm not just going to walk up and go, Hey man, what's going on? Mark Barron. Excuse me, Matt. I don't know him. I know he's just a person. They're all just people, but I don't know him. So I didn't meet the edge. But anyway, so Dan and I are getting,

I'm like, I can't take anymore. I met Hal Wilner that was actually very exciting the music producer but like right before we were about to leave the the room because it was too hot and I just wanted to go sit out in the arena and wait for the fucking band it was where it's nice and comfortable have a lemonade and uh like I'm just about we're about to walk out and I look towards the door and there's a man surrounded by people, few people. And that's when I just broke. And I just looked at Dan. I pointed across the room and I said, Quincy Jones. About that loud.

Quincy Jones. No one, it didn't, no one turned or looked or heard me, but that was it. That's what tipped it. Quincy Jones. So then we left the celebrity holding pen and we went back to the seats and sure enough like about 15 minutes after we went back to the seats they led every occupant of the celebrity holding pen into the stands where they were magically just people at a show and Quincy Jones sat just down to the right where we were sitting

and Bono gave him a shout out during the show which I thought was beautiful and of course it was so funny because these were good seats obviously but right behind us there was this couple that were just I think they were fucking tripping man I mean full-on tripping balls and they were right behind me and you know they're playing the whole Joshua Tree and the band sounds fucking great and they're focused and I'd forgotten what a tremendous fucking record that is what a huge fucking record that is just shaking me at the foundation of my soul beautiful but there was this couple behind us they were dancing so much that the people around them had to move aside and they were the girl was just screaming out of context it's like yeah but really obnoxious horrible scream i don't know why and the guy was singing along with Bono

and then doing call and response with him and nobody else was. But they were just like sweaty and tripping balls and annoying. But I had that moment where I'm like, at first it was like, you know, why would I, just my luck,

I gotta be in front of these two people. But then it was sort of like, you know, that's what music does, man. That's what music does. That guy's singing along with Bono in the same space, and it's probably the greatest day, one of the best days he's having. She's going crazy. I turned around once or twice.

She was crying. And I'm like, they're not annoying. They're doing what they should be doing. They're ecstatic. They're ecstatic at a rock and roll show. What more can you ask for? So, look, Jay Maskus just wanted to come by. So I said, sure, Jay, come by.

And he came by and he left his capo. He left his capo here. He took my tuner and left his capo. So I emailed him and I said, Jay, I think we swapped my tuner for your capo. And then Jay wrote back, okay, you cool with it or should I mail it back? Good seeing you. And I said, cool with me. If it's cool with you, just wanted to make sure you knew before you had to play a gig.

I needed a capo. And then he said, cool, find your key. Isn't that the whole thing? Find your key. This is me and Jay Maskis. He has the last Dinosaur Jr. album was a while ago. You can get any Dinosaur Jr. album. Give a glimpse of what you're not was released last year, but he just wanted to hang out. So this is. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+.

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I mean, Jay. Jay Maskus back in the garage. Round two. All right. I'm going to get pumped up right now. Yeah, use that little squeeze. That's a hard one, too. I always wonder what the...

It's interesting when people fidget with you. I don't know what they're going to pick up so uh what i haven't seen you in a few years we had a nice chat the last time what are you doing out here not much uh my kid was going to disney world with the with my two sisters and my brother and me and my wife didn't want to go so we decided to come to california and it's our first trip together away from the kid. Oh, really? How old is the kid now? Nine. Oh, my God.

So are you staying at a swanky hotel? Not swanky. We had a bit of an Airbnb disaster. Yeah. We were supposed to go to this place in Malibu. And my wife's really into colombo so you know there's these winding hills yeah you know it does look like colombo up there but when we got to the house tv show colombo yeah when we got to the house we got really scared and there's really

loud wind chimes and it was just creepy and the shower looked like some weird hobbit cave and i was just like i gotta get out of here oh really so it was a vibe it wasn't like uh there wasn't people living there no you just got you got creeped out yeah totally really well i mean that sounds like a just like one of those weirdo malibu houses yeah but you had something else going on i didn't want to be there when night fell you know what i mean i was just like i couldn't i couldn't picture that so did you end up coming back into town did you get whole up out in malibu no yeah we bailed back to santa monica well that's fun how long in town for it's a monday who you hanging out with what'd you do today um just rode a bike on the beach and came

over here all right so now we're going to talk about this record because i like i i pulled it out just because it was something that i bought well this is the story with this her name is how do you pronounce it sibyl bear sibyl bear buyer because you're german yeah your wife's german yeah but like i had this it was sent to me probably by the label yeah and i was going through records and i and i put it into a box that i was sent to me probably by the label yeah and I was going through records and I you know and I put it into a box that I was gonna trade out but I knew I thought I'd listen to it and I thought it was something and I didn't know anything about it and I brought it over to Dan you know the guy who likes a certain type music goes oh you don't want to get rid of this one I'm like really it's like yeah no that's a that's a great record and I think that's the

only way it exists this record it's not a reissue. No. But you had something to do with this, because I just pulled this out. But what happened with this record? Well, yeah, since my wife's Germans, we know a lot of other Germans wandering around in the Northeast. And one of them brought us to this guy, Robbie Byer's house, like an hour away, and said, said oh he's my friend blah blah blah what's he do that guy's a musician okay well and we go there and he's playing this music and it's like sounds very like contemporary like this sounds like this could be an indie rock hit yeah yeah very

cat power like right it was like what is this is like this is totally um what's happening right yeah so this is my mom i compiled some of her songs for her birthday i made it into a i went through her tapes and made this you know compilation i was like you could definitely get this put out and he's like oh really uh you want to yeah just give me the tape i'll give it to some people and and then i gave it to some people and um this guy in elf power i knew he'd be really into it he was over at my house and i played him and his eyes lit up you know i knew he got all psyched and and did it find success well with record nerds yes you know right right yeah it's a really beautiful record yeah it's awesome you know you know what i listened

to for the first time i think uh adele yeah i got into adele through the voice like right i started watching the voice with my kid and yeah this guy billy gilman did an adele song and i was like billy gilman i was obsessed with him like in the early 90s because he was this child country star. He was like 12, and he had these hits. And we went to the beach once with this drag queen. He was like, you've got to listen to Billy Gilman. All the drag queens were all over this kid. They could smell the tragedy on him already.

And I was like, we'd listen to it, and the song was amazing. And I couldn't believe suddenly he's grown up and on the voice and he's a judge no he was a contest oh he was a contestant and it turned out he was gay like they could sniff it out back then they knew yeah and he did an adele song he did an adele song i got into adele through that i did like i had this moment where i'm like i don't know if i've ever heard an adele song. Yeah. And like these records and, you know, pop music is pop music, but people love her. Yeah. And it's not like she's some fluke.

So I listened and I'm like, holy shit. It's like some of the stuff I heard was kind of like, you know, like old soul kind of stuff. Yeah. I like her. Yeah. She has such a cool personality like that. Yeah. And she's in the car singing with James Corden.

I've got to watch that. It's pretty amazing. You're the second person that told me to watch that. Yeah. What about Lorde? Let's talk pop stars. I don't know much about her. You don't know much about her?

You ever seen her? She dances wild. No, she played with Nirvana, I remember, at the Rock and Roll Hall. That's where I first saw her. She must have been like 15, 16, maybe 17 years old and that kind of blew me away. Very intense. Yeah, then I played an after party

with Nirvana that same night and everyone else came but she didn't show up to sing. Oh really? Maybe it was too late. She's like in high school. You know what I've been listening to is that the Ravi Shankar records. Yeah, right. He has He's got a vibe, right? Yeah. high school you know i've been listening to is that um the ravi shankar records yeah right yes i mean he's got a vibe right yeah they're relaxing aren't they yeah i love all that

any raga thing i'm a sucker for you know do you ever think about doing like a uh a jay mascus raga yeah i do like sometimes some fake kind of stuff like that and yoga places with some you know guys i know who do who's playing yoga places and do kirtans so wait now let me just understand this you you're doing some yoga place gigs sometimes well i'll do my fit my impression of uh ravi shankar which sounds more like mick taylor wait just let's let's flesh this out a little bit so where's the yoga tour take you like where brooklyn usually so you just show up like they do live music at yoga places yeah like and now are you billed like jay mask is yoga um well i have a gig coming up yeah it's me

and this guy david dos and tony who i play with we usually play together and people are doing yoga so you're working no no it's just at a yoga place they're just singing oh that's different i thought i pictured that like today's class is going to be interesting i'm going to talk you through the poses and jay mascus is going to be playing some music for you. I would do that, yeah. Well, is it challenging to do something meditative? No, I like it. What do you do, acoustic?

No. No. No. Yeah, I like to play electric. Or I can play my electric sitar. You have one of those? Yeah, the fake, you know I like to play electric or I can play my electric sitar and get. You have one of those? Yeah.

The fake, you know, like sixties. Yeah. Now is it, does it look like a guitar? Well, they try to make it look like a sitar, but it plays like a guitar. Yeah. So what, what is the difference? Like there's more strings? No, it just buzzes, you know, so it sounds like a sitar a little bit because like that whole thing like sometimes i try to add those flourishes those things and they don't fit into a lot of what

i do they they stand out like in the middle of a a sort of peter green blues run if you throw one of those it doesn't quite fit do you ever watch peter green showing off his guitars oh yeah the old peter oh no no i got this one it has 14 different you know triangles coming out of it and you're just like it's where he's walking around the weird gated lock up oh my god where's the last ball again yeah but tell me, though. I always enjoy hearing the Jay Maskis play. All right. Let's see what's going on here.

Yeah, I'll try to set up, too. Sounds good to you? I don't know. Yeah. You're hearing it, aren't you? I'm hearing it. I'm not a fan. I always hear Michael listen.

No way. All right, I'll be over here writing the levels. All right. Go ahead. All right. All right. Calling out, I'm deep in doubt to meet you Calling out ends always with a stare I can give you less than what I mean to I'll pretend but I don't see you there

I want to know I want to go I'm all alone I want to know Who to place a friend I'm overwhelmed, I need to The theory's good, you understood it wrong Boxes overflow and then I see you

The theory's in, I can't be friends for long I wanna know I wanna go I'm all alone I wanna know I know it, I know it for sure I blow it, I know, yeah it's her Did I show you a crump? It's a blur

I know it, I know it Calling out is all about me too Calling almost always gets me there Living with a doubt or two for me too Calling out the last place I would care I want to know I want to know The last place I will care I wanna know I wanna know I wanna know Yeah, nice.

Nice little blues riff on the tag. Yeah, I'm practicing my blues for my sound man. Oh, does he? That's his thing? Wait, you want to do one more? All right. I don't see you, I won't call you I don't know enough to stall you Is it me, or is it all you?

Guess it's all in all On a day, maybe I'll show you But it's the least of all I go through. But the thing is, I don't know you, and it's on and on. And the words won't make my eyes Cause if anyone And you know I can't find out Cause you won't show

And it's on and on Every dream shot by daylight And I pray maybe that you're right But if you don't Maybe I might Cause it's on and on You're not gonna get me through this, are you? You're not gonna get me through this, are you?

You're not gonna get me through this on you Anytime I'm gonna tell you if it takes too long And throw you out the door, leaving me screwed And it's on and on Every dream is shot by daylight And I pray maybe that you're right But if you don't, maybe I might cause it's on and on You're not gonna get me through this, are you? You're not gonna get me through this without you

Yes. That was great, Jay. Thanks for coming by. Sure, thanks. So, that was me and Jay Maskis. That was fun, right? It's always good to see Jay. He cracks me up. Once you get to know him, he cracks you up. Danny

Fields, the man at the juncture of a lot of rock history and a lot of great stories. I was just surprised I got to talk to him because I don't think he gets out much to do these. And he's got there's a there's a documentary out. This is what spurred me to talk to him. It's called Danny Says a documentary on the life and times of Danny Fields is now available on iTunes, Amazon, DVD and other on demanddemand services. But it was good.

It was actually a challenging conversation, not in the way that you would think, just in the way of like, man, there's a lot here. How do I get it all in a line? So this is me and Danny Fields. I can't even tell you what exactly he is. He's an art guy, a publicist, a provocateur in a way, a conduit. Danny Fields is a connector and a through line to some of the best bands ever. Okay, this is me and Danny.

I didn't send you that book. It's the only thing in my life that I ever did. I never did anything except take pictures, and that's why I'm so proud of it. I don't know that it's the only thing you did in your life. It's the only thing I did that I did that was mine because it's my camera and my pictures and my film and my writing and my choosing them and my being able to take them.

Of the Ramones. Yeah, just during... What year? 76 and 77. Those years. Yeah. Yeah. The important years, the first trip to Los Angeles,

the first trip to London, the first, you know, walking through Washington, D.C. And my voice is shaky because I'm just starting because I'm always nervous. You're nervous? Always. Really? Like even if you're just sitting still? I used to have a show on WFMU eight hours a week, Thursday and Friday, eight to midnight.

That was a life changer for you, wasn't it? I know. And I was so unnervous. And if you listened, because they kept it all. And I have this like, oh, mellow, hey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The classic. Hey, man.

Yeah, the classic FMU. Yeah. Late 60s FM voice. Yeah. And I had such freedom. And I just would play half-hour blocks of music and back-sell them. I'd never say, coming up, this,

and they just segued, and it was kind of wonderful. And you started, like, I watched a documentary, Danny says, and I liked it. Now, what was interesting about it is how much different footage they had of you over many different years.

And many different years and many different lifetimes and all squashed together yeah I've talked to a couple of people that I that talked about you directly I had legs in here recently but I had Iggy in here and you know and I had Wayne Kramer in here you know and I think the the the guy that talked to you the most about about you the most was probably Wayne. But you didn't start out in music. You were like some, like, whiz kid, right? Where did you grow up?

In Queens. Which part of Queens? Which part of Queens? The southern, not good part of Queens. There's a good part? Oh, yeah. When it gets hilly, it's better. I lived in Astoria for a while. So it's just like, you were just like a Jewish kid from Queens.

I'm just like. First of all, there weren't many in my part of Queens. Yeah. Jews were rare. Yeah. We're not in Forest Hills. Uh-huh. And something called, something Goodfellas territory.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Does that say, kind of like bring something to mind? Mostly Italian. Yes, mostly Italian, yeah, yeah, yeah. Does that say, kind of like bring something to mind? Mostly Italian. Yes, mostly Italian, Irish, German. Yeah. My father was the doctor. Oh, he was a doctor. So he was second only to the priest in authority and sacredness.

He got respect. And I was the doctor's obnoxious son. You know, loser, sissy son. So, yeah, that was rough. Did you have brothers and sisters? I had a younger brother. But, you know, Manhattan was there. It was a subway ride away.

When did you start going in? As soon as I could get on the train. As soon as I could reach the turnstile. Yeah. Always. But, you know, I didn't start. My family was all over. It was a New York family, so there was

the Manhattan people and the Riverside Drive people and the Brooklyn and then the son once in New Jersey. So you spread out. It was spread out. Yeah, the Fields diaspora. Yeah, it was all over Brooklyn-ish. And when did you, like you ended up like, because I did watch the movie, so I know more than I should than when I do generally interview people. But you were a bright kid, right?

Yeah. And you're running. I'm still a bright kid. Yeah. Because everyone else was so stupid. But did you go to college when you were, like, 15? Yeah, I was 15. stupid but did you go to college when you're like 15 yeah i was 15 and that was you know not not the easiest but no i can't imagine there's worse things in the world you know and what was

your interest what were you going to do nothing nothing no no interest to have friends yeah i want friends i never had yeah this is so sad no it's not um i went to pen yeah which is someplace called philadelphia right sure philly and uh it was not heaven on earth it was not i mean compared to new york it sure did not being in the ivy league which is meaningless but the only thing that I meant was that on weekends you got in a car and pretended you cared about a football game. Right. Which I don't even know what the rules are.

But you pretended that we're playing a Wii. Yeah. The collective Wii. I mean, politically, this is, no. It makes me sick to think that I ever used that word. And we were in Princeton or we were in Providence. Right. Or New Haven.

Yeah. Or Cambridge. Right. Boston, Cambridge, England. I just thought, why am I not here? Yeah. In Boston. This is where I want to be.

I want to be in Cambridge. You wanted to? I want to be near the streets of Harvard. Yeah. Just, I want to be there the streets of Harvard. Yeah. Just don't want to be there. Because it felt... I felt like I should be... I feel now I want to be in London.

Right. I get it. I want to be in New York. Yeah, yeah. It's like wherever you are. There's some order to it. There's some style to it. There's an aristocratic vibe.

No, that's not that... It's a selfish longing to feel as if I'm kind of home right you know I like these people they like me did you go long last right did you end up you ended up going there right so I applied to Harvard Law School yeah so not interested in being a lawyer it's one of those things like a dentist I said yeah I need one of these things, I'll hire one, I'll be one. You know, but it was

an easy way to get in, and to be living in the Harvard University community because my marks were so good. And I got this really high score on the law school aptitude test. And he went to law school. I went to law school and he did law a shoe and there I went to school and he but loved as I

thought I would as my fantasy told me I would loved being in Harvard Square yeah which was very not like Queens no no or Philadelphia it's sort of it is kind of stunning I was I lived in Boston for a long time there's something about Harvard Square cool didn't they look cooler? Oh, sure. Bigger density of coolness. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of layers.

Yeah. Yeah, you had a lot of options to wear sporty clothing. Yeah. I always wanted to know someone who looked like that. Or all the sporty clothing. Just steal sporty clothing. You know, at J Press and all the great stores. And try it on. So what changed with the great stores. And they tried on.

So what changed with the law school? It was so boring. You had to memorize things. It's not about how smart you are anymore. It's about how good is your memory. Right. How well do you know what some judge one day decided should be this final solution?

Yeah. Sorry, but should be the ultimate yeah way of reasoning out this problem that is before us and that becomes the law yeah that's the tradition this is the common law sure isn't written down yeah like precedent and what year was this i hated this yeah oh going to 59 60 so what everyone had a suit and then people you like that though right no you didn't like this suit i'd like dressed like this oh oh no no and i never yeah oh i hated it i still don't i couldn't do it today yeah and and people went to the bathroom with each other sat on adjacent toilet bowls so that they could refresh their memories, excuse me, about the law, this case.

Yeah. Which is going to be on the test. Yeah. This is the way. So you go into the bathroom and you hear people in the stalls discussing arguments? Wait, wait. If you were there alone, you started to feel I'm doing something wrong. I don't belong here.

I'm going to flunk out. If you go to the bathroom alone? Yeah. I should doing something wrong. I don't belong here. I'm going to flunk out. You'd go to the bathroom alone? Yeah. I should be with someone. I shouldn't be wasting my time. Yeah. So I think I'll just play bridge. Yeah.

There's a bunch of other people who hate going to these classes, too. You found them? I found them. We found each other. I didn't believe it. And so we sat there playing bridge. That's arrogant. What was it that sparked the interest in, I don't know, it wouldn't be counterculture,

but it would have been what was happening, like music and everything else? I think my life and my education probably started there. People who read, people who didn't really know what they wanted to do. Right, but were smart. Those are my kind of people. Right. They're really smart, and they don't know what they want to do. Right, but we're smart. Those are my kind of people. Right. They're really smart and they don't know what they want to do

and they're beautiful and they're young and they go to Harvard and they love to fuck, which is important. Yeah. When you're 19. Sure.

I was 19 in law school. Yeah. And was it easy to get fucked at Harvard? Yes. Yes, if you were 19, it wasn't easy for anyone in the world to be fucked when they're 19.

But it wasn't, you couldn't be out really, right? Yes, you could. Oh, you could. What does that mean? There's no word that gets sprung on me. It meant nothing to me. Was I out? What does that mean?

I don't know. It's a word that I guess straight people know. Yeah, but there were no straight people to know we found each other yeah sure in a community of in many ways

like-minded people yeah some of whom went to Harvard some of whom once went and now are in graduate school. Some of them went and finished graduate school but stayed there because it was the coolest place they ever stayed.

And they couldn't imagine having to leave this bosom of elitism. So when do you go to New York? Okay, when I flunk. Flunk out of Harvard? When I dropped out. Yeah. I dropped out of Harvard Law School and said I can no longer continue to take up a seat like 1960 yeah and when did you get like locked in with uh when did you sort of find yourself in the orbit of whatever was going on in the heart wise okay with warhol yes okay

there was a bar yeah called the san remo wicker and mc Yeah. So it was there, and it was a bar that was turning quasi-gay. Yeah. It was, but, Edward Albee, Andy Warhol, Jasper Johns, Bob Rauschenberg. Hanging out. Thought of great art. Yeah. Happened to be gay, but some of the great geniuses of that era hung out there. So that's kind of where one would go.

Yeah. And bars that sprung up around that neighborhood. And you just met them there? Just went. Yeah. And, you know, you'd make a friend and just be like someone who goes. And then three girls had an apartment that we loved on 8th Street. Yeah.

And that was a hangout. And you went from sitting at one table to being able to get up and go and sit at another, which was very important. Sure. And then all of a sudden you're- And then making your own table. The ultimate thing, things must be different but to find a prime empty table yeah sit on it by yourself and then watch who comes watch who comes in some and it's something

a competition that you have with your destiny yeah i'm going to make a great table yeah when you start with nothing no money no drinks for everyone no buckets of champagne nothing just i'm going to be sitting there yeah and it's going to be all right to sit there and let's see what happens and you and did you collect did you make your table yeah so i mean yeah i wouldn't be talking about it now it had been a complete failure that was yeah This is why you came to New York, so you could start a table. That was my first. Start a table. Okay.

But you must have been a raconteur or at least fun. You know, I wasn't. I'm not. I wasn't. I never was. I could. Come on. No, I could.

What was your gift then? I could suffer geniuses. Oh. I could love them. Yeah. You were a gift then? I could suffer geniuses. Oh. I could love them. Yeah. You were a good audience. You were a good battery. I was a good friend to people who are really smart.

When you go to the factory, like, you know, I've only seen this in movies and, you know, I've read about it. But, I mean, what was the experience? I mean, it doesn't sound like you had any real affinity for the art necessarily. It was more of a scene, right? Well, the art, you said that with some amount of patronization. What did you mean by that? Well, I meant that like, you know, when... The art was it.

I get it. I get it. It was whatever Andy was. Yeah. There was art being generated. I mean, it should be rude. Oh, it's okay.

But there was, he was having art because he was into mass multiples. Yeah. Multiples, which is the story of modern art.

And this is how Campbell's soup cans is art. Is it anything? I mean, come on, think about that. Yeah, it was crazy.

No one ever seen it before. Antelopes and then virgins and then Jesus and saints and now soup cans. What? You know, dukes and soup cans. Yeah, right. Historical events and soup cans. Yeah. Whoa. This is wonderful.

And it turned the whole intelligentsia and art scene upside down. It turned everything upside down. But I know at some point you transitioned into working in the music business. Yeah, okay. Legitimately. Legitimately by answering an ad. I always was going to go into print media. Yeah.

I don't know. I didn't know what else to say. It was like, what do you want to be? And they kept asking me this forever. Leave me alone. You eventually have to sort of kind of answer when you start looking at wantings. Yeah. And I sold books.

I worked at a magazine called Liquor Store Monthly. Yeah. It was a production, so I learned how magazines get made. Yeah. All this enhanced my viability as a print medium person. Yeah.

Duh. And so on and out saying, managing editor for pop magazine. It's being sought. A pop magazine or a pop magazine? Just say pop. Okay. Okay. Knowledge of pop world.

So this is post-war. This is like you're already there in Edie. I'm there being nobody. I'm there being somebody with a floor you could sleep on. And friends. Hanging out with Edie Sedgwick. And friends of friends. And we were, it's like turning into like a family.

Sure. You always want, well, he's there because he writes songs. And he's there because he could do silk screens. And Andy is at the center of this like God. And he's there because he's the night watchman. Yeah. And he's there because he takes photographs. And you were just there.

I was there being cool. Yeah. I got the job. There were hundreds, hundreds of applicants, I was told. There's no way I could prove that ever. By lying and saying, pretending he meant the pop art scene, because there I was going to all these parties at Castelli Gallery. Yeah.

So I said, knowledge of pop scene. Sure. I went to Rauschenberg opening. Yeah, I can do that. Yeah, I can do that. And then I got Billboard magazine and memorized it. Yeah. I could still do the kind we got through college

and memorized textbooks. You know, and I came in for the next meeting. I could tell him I was 14 on the charts and didn't know anything about this. Yeah. And he said, you're hired to be managing editor of a teenage magazine called Datebook. Uh-huh. Well, this is nice. He wanted it to be, he wanted to follow in the successful steps of 16 Magazine.

Get those little girls buying the magazine. I didn't want to do that. Yeah. I wanted to write about the birds and Jefferson Airplane and the Velvet Underground and the Rolling Stones. And what was cool. But I had my in. Right. So it was mainstream and you were not, that was not what you were saying.

It was always alternative. When did you meet the Velvet Underground? How early on was not what it was always always alternative when did you meet the velvet underground how early okay it was we a bunch of a bunch of people from the factory went to hear them play at the wherever they were playing yeah but before that donald lyons and i had chased this really really good looking guy down the street carrying guitar on McDougal Street, of course, and ran out to him and said, hey, you're so good looking, you should be in an Andy Warhol movie. Doesn't this sound amazing to admit this?

We actually did that because we were, why not? This guy has a guitar. Yeah. He could be singing. Yeah. You know, that's legit. Yeah. Andy likes guys that's legit. Yeah. Andy likes guys that look good on film.

I bet he's going to. Yeah. So why not? It's not balls to go up to someone and say, would you like to be in an Andy Warhol movie? As it was, it turned out great. And there is- Who was it, Lou? It was Eric Anderson.

Uh-huh. Okay. This is in the movie. It was called Space. A bunch of people at the factory, about a dozen, sitting around. Eric Anderson is there with a guitar. Andy is learning how to focus, how to pan. Mm-hmm.

And tilt. Yeah. You know. Yeah. On camera. Right. And there's this movie. Yeah.

And Eric is, what can we do to have a hootenanny at the factory in 1965? Oh, what a nice idea. We're going to have a hootenanny. You know, we do everything else. We might not have a hootenanny. So Michael rowed the boat ashore and they tried that. And people fell over and, you know, pushed each other out of the way and brained and all that. Yeah.

Eric and Edie are sort of making eyes at each other. Extremely wonderful. My friend Donald is trying to teach Edie the words to the Hail Mary. Yeah. I can't imagine. Like 30 times. And this is like, yes, this is an anti-Warhol movie. Right.

This is kind of perfect. Yeah. This is like, yes, this is an anti-Warhol movie. This is kind of perfect. And it was supposed to have been scripted. The script writer in Ronnie Tavell and Disgust walked out. And everybody just kept laughing. Yeah.

And having a good time. Okay. Five months after that, The Velvet Underground moved in. So to answer your question, I had to take this back route. So that was the music comes through the factory. Through Eric Anderson. Yes. The solo acoustic singer.

Yeah. Okay. Who was really talented and beautiful and wonderful. Yeah. And then come the Velvet Underground. Might as well have a band. Hey, we had a folkie that worked out pretty well. And they hung out for a while.

They hung out for quite a while. And they more than hung out. I mean, it became a professional association with a record and tour yeah it was real right the factory found itself in the music business right with the first velvet underground album yeah yeah and and forever when you think of it yeah because you know then lou and john go do songs for Drella long after Andy's gone. How much did he influence them, really? I mean, what was his impact on the Velvet Underground? You know, they talk about it a lot. Yeah.

A lot. They worship him. Yeah. And certainly in retrospect, at the time, you know, they are a rock and roll band. Yeah. But kind of being used as sort of a toy. Right. Oh, it's possible to get a movie projector and run a movie and shine it on the band that's playing up there at the same time we want to do that.

Let's do that. Yeah. Oh, let's put all these gels into projectors and cover the band with hope dots and stripes. Oh, let's do that. But they just wanted to play. Yeah, but they also wanted the audience, the celebrity of Andy Warhol and a place. So here you are immersed in this and now you've got this job at a pop rock magazine. Yeah.

And what was your first big... My first big thing was to do something spectacular and mischievous because i kind of resented uh i resented a great deal yeah to get an invitation to go on the rolling stones boat ride uh-huh um which the boat pulled away before i got there um but that's when i met linda eastman too because i read for someone to get off the boat with the camera there's a whole other story but linda mccartney the future linda Linda McCartney, the future Linda McCartney. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So that was, you know. Did she inspire you to take photographs? Yes. Very much. Very much. You wrote a book on her too, didn't you? I wrote, yeah, I wrote a tribute memoir sort of of me and her.

Did you stay in touch with her all the way through? Yes. memoir sort of of me and her did you stay in touch with her all the way through uh yes and as much as you could uh because i think when she first married paul in 1968 69 i think i get the feeling he didn't encourage her to keep in touch with her friends in new york most of whom had columns and or you know edited magazines, et cetera. But yeah, at the time of his first album, they came back. The McCartney album?

Yeah, tell us about this music business now. There's no more Beatles. Here I am. We can use that guy now. Yeah, well, we could, yeah. It'll remind us what's been happening these years. But you did a Beatles story, though. You did Beatles stories for the date book.

We owned Beatles stories. Among the things we owned, which Art Unger had purchased, was a series of interviews with each of them done by Maureen Cleave, who's a London journalist. And I found that we owned them. We owned the right to publish them in America. And so I read them and I said, whoa, this is quite extraordinary. Here, well, I have to just say what Sir Paul McCartney said.

Talking about America, it's a lousy country where anyone black is a dirty nigger. So, oh, there's a line. Let's put it on the cover of a magazine for 11-year-old girls. Let's see what happens. You did that? Yes. And, oh, yeah. Then there's an interview with John Lennon.

And in the course of the interview, he says, oh, we're more popular than Jesus now. And elsewhere in the same interview, he says, I don't know which will go first, rock and roll or Christianity. And he put the other quote on the cover too? Yes, both of them. And followed by Timothy Leary says something and Bob Dylan says something. Message songs or something.

So what was Unger saying when you're taking the magazine in this direction? He was saying, well, this is really a big step. But hey, as I'm discovering now, many years later, he's considered a pioneer having been the publisher in promoting a left-wing ethos and directing it at young rock and roll kids and consumers in the middle 60s which was ahead of its time because hey he bought those hey he said okay he said yes we can use them on the cover and as the headlines inside.

That's how history is treating him? I'm glad it's starting to, and in academia, sort of, because he is rather, if I'm obscure, can you imagine how obscure he must be? Right. And I was fired for, not that, just because I didn't know how to put out a magazine. I pretended, I was fired for, not that, just because I didn't know how to put out a magazine. I pretended.

I was faking. I didn't know how to be an editor. And I've learned, but I wasn't then. After I was fired, the magazine came out as the Beatles were doing a giant stadium tour of the United States. Uh-huh. And an irate mother in Alabama saw this. We're more popular than Jesus, quote, from the Beatles. They were predisposed in certain regions of the United States to despise the Beatles existentially. Okay. This is kind of like the prick that did it. I think they hated them because their daughters liked them,

because they had long hair, and so they thought they were faggots, because they sang and they looked, you know, they were sissies or something. And girls screamed and boys hated them, because the girls screamed over them, them. Yeah. Because the girls screamed over them. Right.

Except the boys were cool enough to like them as a band. Right. So it turned into big screaming. And then it turned into a book burning.

Yeah. Where pastors and pictures. Record singers. No. Said to, and DJs. There, man. I didn't know if you were sitting there.

Okay, kid. We just found out that the Beatles are anti-Christ. And they think they're bigger than Jesus. Well, first of all, the bigger than Jesus is one of those quotes that never got said. But it's come down in history, so it has kind of familiarity to it. It's wrong. He said, we're more popular than it doesn't matter yeah and there were barn fires bonfires yeah and people brought

their records and trucks ran them over and they poured melted tar on them and they had blazes it was like berlin in 1933 yeah books. There were burning images of the Beatles. This is how do you get rid of Satan? Yeah. Why do you burn a witch? Yeah. You don't just chop off her head. Yeah.

You burn her. Yeah. Okay, this was it. Yeah. This is a metaphor for that. And that was happening. Yes, my magazine appeared on the newsstands, and it was causing a real reaction.

A real ruckus. Yeah. A real reaction. And the Beatles were set to tour? The Beatles were on tour. Yeah. They countered death threats, fears, paranoia. What is that sound?

Is it a shot? Yeah. You know, and then we go on stage and you could could hit they could hear nothing these were stadiums they were playing and the girl screaming yeah girl screaming they couldn't hear themselves they could have been mouthing the words yeah i think i did not know them but um and then was that i played San Francisco, and it was the end of the two-week tour, and whatever the conversation, the different accounts of it they had backstage was, this is going to be our last show.

And it was Candlestick Park in September 1966 in San Francisco, and they put down, and they never played again, except an impromptu thing in London on a rooftop. But this was it. Now, I didn't, first of all, it wasn't intentional. Right. Oh, you broke up the Beatles. No.

I just printed a story that had run in London and nobody even paid attention to it when it did. Nobody said, oh, dear. Nobody. In London. In all of wherever. Six months earlier, oh, dear. Nobody. In London. Right. In all of, wherever, six months earlier

this had happened. Yeah. It's like without a trace. Right. But in Alabama, it made, it was quite a furor. It was galvanizing.

It was, yeah. And it started a fire that spread. Right. And then it was also, it became clear where the rock lines

were drawn in a way. Like, I mean, if that's the reaction the Beatles get. I mean, that was the fight for rock and roll at that time. Yeah. It's so good that we, isn't that great that we can look at it now and say that? But imagine if you were consumed by it. And imagine if you were them.

Yeah. Or their fans. Yeah. Or the people who said, I knew they would turn out to be Jesus haters because they have long hair. Yeah. Like, what? And within three years from there,

rock would ultimately win that cultural war in a way. Well, it was a beachfront, let's say. Beachhead. What's the word? Beachhead. Yeah. And it was a bigfront, let's say. Beachhead was the word. Beachhead. And it was a big battle. It was big. It still, I think, has not been really explored.

No, we've lost some territory in the last year. Yeah, yes. And you're going to. And this is part of the story is that perhaps we're too close to it now, though it was 50 years ago, last fall, last fall 50. And we still haven't gotten our arms around what the hell happened.

And what happened to them, but what happened to music and what happened to culture as we saw. What happened to America? It was what we see now. It was a schism. And we see now. Yeah. It was a schism. Yeah. And we see it now with this thing

that happened after the election thing. Yeah. And we saw it then. There it was. There was a blueprint for it. Or it was an early sign, a message. Well, yeah, it was like, oh, that's there. This is part of us.

This is part of America. Well, didn't say it then. No. You said, well, what have we become? What are we dealing with? What is this death? It's not death. It's about Jesus.

It's about fire and destruction. So when you get fired, but that is that part of the drive for you to continue in music i moved to la that summer i did this all came out while i was living in los angeles this is before the the dj job uh yeah yeah okay and i kept thinking I should move here. This place is cool. Yeah. And I stayed in L.A. the summer of 66. I was there to see this wonderful catastrophe happen as the result of a simple decision to put a couple of lights that had already been seen six months before in London on the cover of a magazine to see all hell explode,

which was so much fun. And I decided I couldn't live here because this is, I couldn't make it down stoned. I mean, I had to drive down Laurel Canyon Boulevard stoned late at night. And with people hating me and the signal behind me because they do it all the time and they can go fast and they may be dumb

but they may not be. And I am in, oh, these curves, here comes another one, oh my God. And I really, because of that, before Uber,

I don't think I could live here. I'd like to be able to walk. Walk when you're high. Call a taxi or get in the subway. Okay. So you go back and then you took the job as a DJ?

WF, I had friends who, there was a, what was the station in San Francisco that went poof? Oh, I don't remember. Freeform KSFO or KSAN or something. It was Freeform Radio. And it was, you played what you wanted. Yeah. And they decided it was unprofitable, and a bunch of people were terminated and each went out and and a spore like of a species sort of found a place at another radio station, another market in America and one of the San Francisco people named Larry Yurden found a small college station in New Jersey called WFMU. Yeah my buddy Tom Sharpling used to

be on there for years recently. Yeah this is yeah. So you can do what you want. It was so great and I got to be a guest and I did so good as a guest because I have a thing for pretty music yeah I hate music but sometimes it can be pretty yeah and and I got my own show eight hours a week two nights a week while I worked for Electra Records imagine how unethical this is you were working for Electra yes I was like I might as well be you know Ivanka Trump I mean I was like, I might as well be, you know, Ivanka Trump. I mean, I was really corrupt. But what were you doing for Elektra? I was their publicity, head of publicity, the director of publicity.

And that's when you were working at WFMU? Yeah, at the same time. And who were the bands? Who were the bands? For the Elektra. Oh, the students in the MC5 bands. I didn't sign to them. But that was before you were, wait, you were at FMU when you signed

those bands? 68, 69, yes. So how'd you get the job with Electra? Okay, I got it because in an earlier magazine I had sensed the viability as a popular event

creation of the Doors. And... You sensed it? i you know i saw it happening where in la i saw it in new york from you know girls who had gone to see them on their first new york appearance and came back you know in a vapors and faint uh and and you told the lecturer these guys were the guys? No. Then I had a call from a friend of mine, okay,

whom I'd met that summer, Ronnie Herron, and she was a manager of the whiskey and she also managed kind of the doors. And she said, oh, do me a favor.

This band I work for is coming to New York. And would you be a publicist for them? Sort of. Oh, yeah, sure. I heard people see them. Oh, okay. And I went to see them.

And I called Electra the next day and said, hey, I'm the publicist for your band, The Doors, it seems. I'm getting paid. It's just I'm doing someone a for your band, The Doors, it seems. I should say, I'm getting paid. It's just I'm doing someone a favor, but you don't have to say that. And they were thrilled to have a publicist in their midst. And months later, I was hired by Elektra. It was another magazine I got fired from called Hollow Blue, which became Circus. Oh, yeah, I remember that. I always get fired magazine I got fired from called Hollow Blue, which became Circus. I always get fired.

I get fired from everything. So you had to deal with Jim a lot. Jim Morrison? Yes, I know. That's something from Bird Strikes Thunder. Yeah. And Lightning. Yeah, I did. He was really great the first time I

said, hi hi I'm your press agent during the rehearsing in the morning for their show at Undine's that night and I said

I'm your press agent I would like to interview you one at a time and I said come and sit with me

and he told me about who he was and what he did and okay and went back to a lecture and I said oh I'm really glad to went back to a lecture and I said, oh, I'm really glad

to be working with these people and I think they have a hit. With Light My Fire? Yes, but guess what? What? It was seven minutes long as recorded by Paul Rothschild and is on the first album.

And they said, oh, it's seven minutes long as I just said. It can't be a hit. It can't be on the radio unless you're three minutes long. And I said, oh,

and they said, besides we just released a whole break on through. Yeah. That light my fire. What a song that is. And I was not the first person to say that.

Yeah. But I was the first person outside the company who came in there and said, hello, I think you have a hit there, but it's too long.

Do something. Or not. Yeah. You know, what do I know? Yeah. And they remembered that I was the first person outside the company who came and said, hey, you have a hit. And would you like to start a publicity department for us?

Because it was a hit. Yeah. The week I started there was number three headed to number one. At seven minutes or did they trim it? Oh, no. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, in the interim. Yeah.

Of course. They responded to the pressure that was growing. Yeah. To, hey, that's what a catchy tune. Yeah. It's a hit. And cut it to three minutes. And then it started zooming up the charts.

Yeah. And was Jim mad about that? I think who can Jim mad about that? I think who can get mad about having the number one? He got mad when I started intruding. Remembering who I had been as editor of a teeny bopper magazine. Establishing, creating, promoting. Yeah. In the style of 16 Magazine and Gloria Stavers.

Teen Idols. Yeah. There he was. It was and Gloria Stavers. Teen Idols. Yeah. There he was. Yeah. It was a bull. There was a Teen Idol. And that picture of him, Joel Brodkey picture, sort of shirtless. Yeah, yeah.

With a thin string of beads. And we knew this was it. Yeah. And that went into the Village Voice. And here's a new Teen Idol. And we all worked on it from different directions. The record went to number one. Yeah.

Supergroup. And what is called a career single. Yeah. You know, in those days. Right. That was like more than just a hit. Right. It was like a hit that made you.

Yeah. You know. Mythic. It was such a good hit. Yeah. Such a good song. And, yeah. What was the tension between you two?

Well, okay. I went to see them backstage in San Francisco, and I thought, oh, such a snot. I thought, oh, these girls around Jim Morrison, this will never do. Yeah. For my new teenage idol. Yeah. I must do something about this. So, I was in L.A. staying at staying at the tropicana rest in peace yeah and

nico and edie sedgwick were staying at the castle at 2630 glendower do you know what that is across the street from the frank lord right house that's where rock and ball Band stayed. Yeah. And Nico said, oh, we are so afraid here. Come and stay with us. So I did. And I said, oh, Jim, why don't you come up and visit my friends Nico and Edie Sedgwick, whom I knew of. You know, there are different versions of this. I saw the movie called The Doors by Oliver Stone.

I can only remember what I remember. Yeah. Okay. Am I looking for witnesses? Do I need them? I don't know. Yeah. I said, follow my car. I'm going to drive up, you know, and he's so mean. That's when I saw it. It's hard to

drive in Los Angeles for a New Yorker to begin with. Yeah. It's hard to drive in Los Angeles for a New Yorker, to begin with. Yeah. It's hard to drive when you have told Jim Morrison to follow my car into the hills. Yeah. Oh, yeah, he, yeah, trust me. I think he ducked between cars to confound me.

It was going, it was like sunset towards Vermont. Yeah. Drive, make a left, oh, my God. And it was, oh, it was torment sunset towards vermont yeah drive make a left oh my god and it was i was oh it was tormenting yeah it was tormenting me for interfering with his girl life his groupie life yeah by insisting but there i had set him up with glorious davers there i was working for the record so i brought him up there and there were some drugs going around in those days that people had yeah and i think he got really stoned and he met nico and they didn't say a word to each other they stood and stared at the same place on the floor. Can you imagine for a really long time?

Someone goes, Jesus Christ, I'm going to go do something else. I'm going to play solitaire. Yeah. Okay. And they had a tumultuous night of fighting and shrieking and tearing of hair and naked walks around the parapets and help, he's going to kill me yeah and that was I learned and he hated me from then on and also what I

did was now look I was working with his record company they were paying for me to be there he was so so high. He consumed. I don't think I'm the first person in the world who said that. Right. He had an astonishing capacity for anything. Yeah. That hand and that gesture that says more. Okay.

He looks at the bottle and consumes more. And what if he got killed driving that fucking Glendower? I'd lose my job. Right. So I took the keys out of his ignition and parked in the driveway of his little car that he lived in. Yeah. And put them under the floor mat.

I didn't steal his car or anything. Right. This made it kind of difficult for him to get away in his condition. And there were no phones there. We're lucky there was electricity and running water. And so, in effect, he was kidnapped. Okay. Prevented from leaving until things got better.

And, of course, he never forgave me for that. Oh, really? That was it? Yeah. It's enough isn't it i guess so one night yeah you restore jim morrison what i took his you set him up with nico and then hit his car keys yeah and it's los angeles you hide someone's car keys come on what is the house sure you deserve this sin that's bad that's but that but but the doors you know

really got you in tight with the record company you were you were the guy for a little while for a little while so what now the way that i understand it what you did for rock and roll outside of uh you know make teenage girls like jim morrison was bring us the mc5 and the stooges yeah well you have to do more than one thing at once it's like you should have more than one job but that to me is like the greatest story, though. Like this idea that you get a two for one in Detroit or wherever. I know. In one weekend.

Isn't that wonderful? How did you get hip to them? What happened? The people who. OK, they had played. This is July. It's a 68. And they had played at the extremely riotous Democratic Convention.

Yeah. Chicago. Both of them or just the MCc5 c5 yeah i'm sorry and well they were the white panther party and there was a lot of political thing behind them yeah this but at first i knew of them through dennis froley and bob rudnick uh-huh who had brought me to wfmu who had cocaine karma and were politically active. Yeah. As, of course, we all were politically active. Right.

To our own individual degrees. Yeah. So I went out to see the MC5. And at first, I started to receive that they put me on their list. Yeah. I was impressed. Everything was printed and in color. And there was a lot of propaganda and a lot of

promotion. A mission that a printing press in the basement that not only had a mission they had a printing press. And that was what was his name

John Sinclair? John Sinclair. His influence. Lenny Sinclair. Yeah. Were conscious of expansive

confrontational political... They worshipped the Black Panthers. They called themselves the White Panthers. And they had their own band. It was like Andy having a band. We're a political party and we need a band. Everyone needs a band. Well, it was the late 60s too.

It was the late 60s. Music meant something. Music meant something and Music meant something, and politics meant something. It was all, it was, until now, it was the only thing that ever got everybody together was that war. Yeah. That hated, hated, hated war in Vietnam. And so one participated in all, anything that attacked the fact that this country was a part of that. And they certainly were, but they were primarily a rock and roll band.

Yeah. People who went to hear them went to hear rock and roll and went to see people and sat and spinning around and Wayne Kramer being fabulous and Robin Tyner. Yeah. Then the Prelude, Brothers and Sisters, and it was kind of like a prayer meeting. Sonic Smith. Yeah, Fred Smith, like, darn, Dennis Thompson. It was great.

Raw rock and roll. It was real Midwestern rock and roll. From the tradition of Mitch Ryder. Yeah, and Grand Funk Railroad. Sure. And it was going to become stadium rock in the hands of Grand Funk Railroad,

especially, but... Later, Bob Seger. It was, oh, yeah, he was there. Ted Nugent would be sitting on the floor of the, you know... Of the MC5 ballroom. Forgive me for saying that, yes. No, on the floor of the garage

of the MC5. They would all be hanging out. Oh, yeah? We were all hanging out together. And the Stooges too? And the Stooges, okay, the Stooges came about because they come about.

I mean, they existed. Wayne Kramer said to me, say, if you like this on one weekend, September in 1968, if you liked us, you're really going to love our little brother band.

Something he knew about my taste was kind of weird and offbeat. Yeah. I don't know how. It's Wayne Kramer. Yeah. How could he not know smarter things than most of us know? And so I said, well, I'd love to see them. I have to go back to New York tomorrow.

He said, oh, they're playing across the street at the Student Union of the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. Yeah. And so I went across the street and then heard, first heard, because I heard them filling the halls of this. The building?

Yeah. Then I saw Iggy, and then I went, oh. And the next morning, and I said, Iggy walked past me. And I said, well, do you have a manager? I'm from Electra Records. He said, oh, he's back there. And I pointed, I kept walking. He said he thought I was some dirty old man who was hitting on.

Because no one from a record company could possibly. What were you doing there? Yeah. Being interested in them. So I called Jack Holtzman, the president of Electra. one from a record company because you're awesome what were you doing there yeah yeah uh being interested in them so i called jack holtzman the president of electra that morning i said yeah i just saw two great bands this weekend you gotta sign them they were feeling very expansive and expanding it's more like it in the wake of the great doors hits yeah you know they had become a rock and roll company they used to be a folk company they were folk rock yeah and you know with non such no they were

classic and inventive and yeah song songs of Bulgaria you know happening yeah and he said hmm I said all the big one was mc5 and they draw a lot of people they're really successful successful. And I said, when the little one is kind of starting and they're a little farther out. He said, hmm. And you really like them. He's on the phone and John Sinclair, the manager of the MC5

and Jimmy Silver, the manager of the Stooges are in the kitchen of the MC5 house in Ann Arbor. And Jack said, hmm. See if the big band will take $20,000 to sign. See if the little one will take $5,000. I put my hand over the mouthpiece.

Remember there were phones there? And it's 11 o'clock in the morning on Monday. Will you take $20,000? Oh. It was a lot more than it is. Yeah, sure. It's a lot. But they'd never heard.

And then 5,000 for the Stuja's. And yes, and they were signed. Boom. And then just, wow. And then it got so hard. Yeah. As the 70s moved along, you know, doing the legal and financial aspects of a record deal. Yeah.

Anyhow, I soon got fired. The MC5 got fired. The Stooges got fired. We made a little history there. But you did the first two records. I mean, they each did their first record. They each did their first record. The Stooges did their first two records.

Which fell on deaf ears for the most part or no? Well, it didn't fall on massive ears, but it fell on Lenny Stoog to just fell on lenny k's ears for example who wrote an incredible review and i think fusion yeah so when i said someone said oh there's that lenny k said oh oh yeah you're the greatest person who ever lived and that and it took and that had power then you have one good yeah But it wasn't just the one. It was a few, but let's just say Lenny K. Because I didn't get hip to this dude just until years later. And it was like, you know, when you listen to him, you realize that if it weren't for them, so many things wouldn't have happened.

Yeah. Then, I mean, they were so, my God, they were so unformed. Yeah. And so pure yeah energy yeah some nuclear thing that you can't find you haven't found something with enough lead yeah to hold it in yeah it's really hot yeah and yeah and i'm glad you think so it just seemed to set the stage for what became the next phase of your musical interest. Yes, but not with a big label.

Right. What happened is what always happens. There are talented people gathering around a nexus of it. More than a movement, it's a place where it is permissible to be creative. And there was such a scene in New York in the wake of the Velvet Underground and, of course, the New York Dolls were hugely, greatly, wonderfully important then in the early 70s. important than in the early 70s and on a way of being expressive and wonderful creative and smart and glamorous and good records and good songs always good songs you know like you said that you know the Velvet Underground had set the stage for stuff and you know Andy had and the Stooges had come to New York a

couple of times and Bowie had come. Yes. Yeah. So, like, and there was this crew of bands and musicians. Yes. Centered around the Lower East Side. Right. That were all doing, you know, unique and interesting stuff. Interesting takes. Right. Rock and roll.

It had not much to do. One didn't come because there was another. Which the implication there would be it sounded like something that was part of something. It did not. Right. Well, that's a good thing. Yes. It sounded what these people called the talking heads.

Yeah. Or these people called the New York Dolls. The Heartbreakers. Or these people called the Ramones. The Heartbreakers, yes. You said the Heartbreakers. Yeah, I said the Heartbreakers. And Blondie was having commercial success,

very unlike what others were doing. But it became a big sloppy old family. Television. And at its heart is CBGB's, which is a room that God has blessed with the greatest acoustics that anyone had ever heard. Anything sounds great there. If you're great to begin with, you sound cosmic cubed.

Yeah. So when you were there and you saw that you were at a table, where were the tables? At Max's and at CB's? Yeah, tables downstairs at max's that was a universe unto itself yeah upstairs bands played yeah it was a different universe right there's more people who come to hear a band and downstairs were people who came to hear and see each other well that and that and at that time who were who were at the tables like Lou and Patti Smith yeah but I just this morning there was I was watching the

news and there was this real star looking newscaster and I said to Brandon Brandon told my director who I'm me and I was who's that something Shriver I said fuck he's a Kennedy Wow It's like a news star. He's a star. He's the son of Sergeant Shriver. Okay. And this story has a punchline. And Eunice Kennedy Shriver, who was a sister of Bobby and Shaftley.

And one night, he came into Max's, I think, with Jermaine Greer. came into Max's, I think, with Jermaine Greer. And I was with Jackie Curtis, who was a trans, such a neo-sexual creation of her very own. He's her very own. And I could say, ah, Sergeant Driver, this is Jackie Curtis. This is the President's, Kennedy's brother-in-law who started the Peace Corps.

Yeah. Okay. And you could do that. That would be a table at Max's. Right. Okay. So it definitely. I mean, it had Kennedy's.

Sure. And it had. Drag queens. It had Germaine Greer. Yeah. And drag queens. So. And the Warhols, of course, and bands.

And then it would be Long Table and then it would be Big Brother and the Holding Company and Janice. You know, Max is downstairs. Upstairs bands played. Well, it's interesting because at that time in the early 70s, so all these bands from the 60s were still around and there was the new thing. So it was that second wave of of of rock mythology all coming together and then within then creating that third wave which is the the ramones and that crew yeah but i'm inventing waves but you know what i'm saying yes i know i'm but communal in the sense that we came from each other the members of the band that would become the Ramones would come to New

York, to Manhattan from Forest Hills, a simple subway ride, to see the New York Dolls were getting all this publicity and drawing all these audiences who were getting a record deal and were supposed to be so good. And they said, wow, what are we worried about? Why do we have to worry about being good? Because they're just great. They went to great without bothering to be good. Yeah.

Okay. And we see why they're stars. Look at that guy's hair. Yeah. What are they wearing? Well, look at that audience. That's the coolest kids ever. Listen to that song.

So, okay. So, the dolls were the center of it. Yeah, the center. And it was a scene where the coolest people would go to one place one night a week, one night a month, and this was all New York.

Early middle 70s, the dolls broke up in 74, and CB's started to be a place where the owner said, oh, sure, you can play here, but, sure, you can play here. Hilly? Yes, Hilly Crystal.

Only original material. No copy bands. And he was a country western singer at one point. Yeah. And a very great and wonderful person with a room with the best acoustics in the world anyone ever heard.

Okay. And, of course, bands wanted to play there and then it became a mecca and all that. But back then with the core bands, it was just, it was, everyone sounded good. And do you know,

but apropos of what you said, there were record company people who would say, well, that neighborhood, the Bowery, I can't go there. It's not safe. I just told you I could walk there from where I live. Yeah. And you could walk anywhere.

But if they said that, you're right. Here is a fear, cowardice that's going to keep you back. And it's going to those guys. Look what they're missing. They could have signed all these bands. Seymour Stein wasn't afraid to go. Yeah. A lot of people weren't afraid, but a lot of people were.

Seymour was sire. Was sire? Yes, sire. And how could television. Tom Berlain, yeah. Of course, which was Richard Hell. I mean, okay. Oh, and Richard Hell.

Yeah, Richard Lloyd. I mean, the original television. And Billy Fickle. They were, what was Richard Hell. I mean, okay. Oh, and Richard Hell. Yeah, Richard Lloyd. I mean, the original television and Billy Fickle. They were, what a great band. Oh, my God, yeah. Oh, they're great. Yeah. And you were just there all the time. And so different.

Yeah. And you were there. And the people, yes. You became a voracious fan of great geniuses who were forming their very, very different musical conglomerations. Yeah, and when was the first time you saw the Ramones? The first time I saw the Ramones was in 75 at their annoying insistence,

and B. Heston, don't leave me alone. Who's on the phone? It's one of them again. I want you to come and see them. I had no idea. I had a column, yeah,. I want you to come and see them. I said, I have no idea. I had a column, yeah, and I wrote a weekly rock and roll column.

For? The Soho Weekly News was kind of an alternative. Everything was alternative. Yeah. And I was writing about television and Patti Smith. And I'd come and see them

and the Ramones wanted to be included in those columns, and they were really after me. I was also the editor of 16 Magazine. So I recycled. Now I'm back. Okay. I went back and picked up that part of my life on another level

and became the co-editor-in-chief of it. We were doing the Bay City Rollers then. Sure. So during the day, I was Bay City Rollers. And at night. You were with Patti Smith. Yeah. Yeah.

And so I went to see the Ramones. Okay. Oh, okay. I want to see. Okay. Just don't have to stop calling. I'll go see them. Yeah.

And they were so great. I mean, 10 seconds into the first thing. And I said, they're perfect. They look perfect. The songs are perfect. They're loud and fast, and they're strong. And the first song I heard was, I don't want to go down to the basement.

And I thought, that's a song? That's a song what what a sentiment beyond comics and and that arch sensibility i don't want to go down to the basement and that's a song boom and the whole set was 14 minutes long and i thought hoorayay, this is so good. Yeah. And I met them afterwards. They said, so will you write about us in your column? And I said, I think I'm going to manage you guys.

Something came over me. Yeah. And Johnny looked at me. It was so smart. We need $3,000 for drums. Can you come up with $3,000? Then we'll maybe, we can be our manager.

So, okay. I flew to Florida to see my widowed mother and said, Ma, I need $3,000. It's just sort of the best band I ever saw. It's all thanks to my mother. My mom's got their set. That's a lot of money for a set of

drums in 1975. I don't know. $3,000. I don't know. $3,000. I don't either. It seems like a lot. But who cares? Yeah. And we were off and running. Yeah. It was great.

And how long were you with them? Five years. It was a contract. Yeah. And you hooked them up with Sire? Or who did it first? Stiff? They were kind of known to Sire.

And then my best friend had become Linda Stein, who was married to Seymour Stein, who owned Sire. From Sire, yeah. And so I brought her to see them. Yeah. And she was a real rock and roll person, a real rock and roll gal. Seymour knew it. We all knew it. And she's raving about this.

So we did an audition for Seymour Stein, and he signed them on the spot. I want to audition. That's all it took. And first album for $6,400. Okay, and the rest is history. You know, as I'm finding out, as I keep going back to London now, it's the 40th anniversary of that happening.

Yeah. Going to England and it meant so much to people. They did something. They changed a great deal. I think even 40 years is not long enough to know what it was they did. They changed the music. They changed the music. They changed so much.

And the Heartbreakers too. The Heartbreakers tour to London I I heard, was a powerful shift. Yes, it was, but I wasn't there for that, so you'll have to have Johnny Thunders. Sure, we'll get a Ouija board and get them right out. So wonderful. But yeah, so when the Ramones went to England, it was like, what the, this is it.

Yeah, and they did something that was commercially very significant. Many bands were forming then. It was kind of a, what do you say, a plasma of extremely gifted people in this stew in London. And they had their own concerns and they had their own politics and they were very strong

and the people were very strong and powerful and talented but no one would hire them. And then these four people from New York came for three days and there was such a word of mouth sensation. I think New York had exotic, oh, it's an interesting place.

It's full of poets and it's very sexy. This is Lyndon saying that. But we can't get jobs because... Are you talking about like the clash? Yeah, especially the clash. Yes. Yes.

And the Ramones played and thousands of people came to see them on July 4th, 1976. 200 years. Yeah. Ironically. Yeah. The Revolution War that America get us out of this England thing. And here we are back in England and beginning what, in retrospect,

turns out to have been a revolutionary period. This kind of music, if one would call it that, sort of do-it-yourself music, became commercially viable. People said, oh, one of these bands can play at my club. Sure. Or we can have a little festival in Leeds or something. Yeah.

And that can be seen as a watershed moment. I mean, also, Grant, it was the Pistols, of course. Sure. And their greatness, of course. Let's call it a one-two punch. I don't want to get into where you need to belong. Sure, sure. Well, you changed it.

You helped, you facilitated the big shift. Yeah, but you didn't know you were doing it then because I went back this past summer, 2016. I actually spoke at the British Library and was interviewed by barney hoskins who was so brilliant who does rocks back rock back pages which you must know about and well everybody and in front of an audience so we have the british libraries libraries of the great libraries in the world right wanting to talk about 40 years ago in London.

And the more you talk about it, the more I talked about it, the more I asked about it, the more perspective I was adding to it. This is great. Like most of a lifetime had gone. And it just shows sometimes you have to get so far from something to look and see what it was and what happened. Most people said to me,

oh, what was London like when you got there? I don't know. We got there, we were there for three days. And what happened after you left? I don't know. People tell me. I have to ask what happened in the wake of this ignition.

Yeah. The Ramones sparked in London. And so they made history and they changed the world. And after five years, they fired me because they weren't selling records. And they kind of knew they weren't going to sell records but there were millionaires at the times they're all gone they did all right they did quite well yeah i remember one time uh i saw joey and his father eating soup at vaselka you know like face to face at a two at a two top table yeah and i just saw the profiles it was so cute you know, like face-to-face at a two-top table. Yeah. And I just saw the profiles. It was so cute.

You knew that was his real biological father? It looked just like him. Wow. Yeah. Maybe it was you. Didn't he hang out with his father ever? I think I met him in passing. His mother was a great friend of everyone.

She was very wonderful. Maybe I'm projecting. It could have been you. Did you ever have soup with Joey at the Veselka? Joey? I was kind of shy of Joey. He was so smart and sarcastic and shrewd. And I was kind of afraid of being left alone with Joey.

But Johnny and Dee Dee and Tommy, no problem. Oh, yeah. But Joey was ethereal and so smart. And here's the irony. So they lived for, they changed the world. Now there's a book, there's a fiction book called Ramon Ramon, as if they had been brothers, as if they were a family. Oh, you love that book.

Which I'm giving you a copy of. Yeah, I'm excited. It's unbelievably brilliant. This is the conceit that they really were a family of brothers and that there was an oldest brother who was a classical composer and the Ramones stole his great innovative symphonies

and to be of it made their historic first four albums, which we are so, also proud of. Yeah. And. And also you got to get me the photo book. And I'll get you the photo book. And you got to read. Ramon Ramon is not published.

I mean, can I say the word Amazon? Yeah. I mean. Sure. It's, it's, it's like nothing. And here's. It's a book. It's a book of words. It's not a song. It's not a haircut. It's like nothing. And here's, it's a book. It's a book of words.

It's not a song. It's not a haircut. It's not leather. It doesn't, it's just a book that lies there and the words come and just strike you.

Oh my God. I'm in. I'm sold. Exploding. I'm excited about it. Ramon Ramon, that's his name. They were drug smugglers in the book.

I'm first mate on their ship called the Havana Banana. I was smuggling drugs between Rockaway Beach and the coast of South America. Oh, that sounds funny. I know, it's very funny and wonderful. Do you listen to any music? Beethoven. Okay. He was good.

I can't say he said it all, but he said more than I will ever be able to comprehend in this lifetime, I would say that. And without sounding pretentious, but yeah. Okay. Okay. Thank you for talking. Thank you.

This was funny. Okay, that's it. We did it. We pulled through. We got it. Find your key. I can't play guitar right now because my fingers hurt because I played a bunch yesterday. Like, and I was playing acoustic, and the tips of my fingers actually hurt.

I know that a lot of you are disappointed, and you're like, hey, man, you've got to push through. Next time. Next time. I have to go, you know, try, you've got to push through. Next time. Next time. I have to go, you know, try to exercise so I don't die. All right. Boomer lives! We'll see you next time. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream?

Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis

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