WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 825 - Kia Stevens / Chavo Guerrero Jr.

Episode Date: July 2, 2017

It's a tag team match with two of Marc's GLOW colleagues. First, Chavo Guerrero Jr. stops by to tell Marc what it's like to be part of a wrestling dynasty and how he put his lifetime of experience to use as the behind-the-scenes trainer on GLOW. Then Kia Stevens talks about going from social work to wrestling stardom and how she was able to play the character of Tamee, aka Welfare Queen, by drawing on past incidents of dealing with racial stereotyping in the wrestling world. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated

category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton.

The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuckocrats what the fuck publicans and the what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wf wf holy shit what's happening to me is it the statins is it what is it this is my podcast just what fuck no the what fuck wow brain skid jesus what is happening i can i i can do this all right welcome to the show by the way uh this is independence day weekend the fourth of july is tomorrow if you're listening to this

on monday and as i do every year obviously where i live here in highland park uh on the east side of los angeles county uh the fourth of j started weeks ago, so it's a slow build. We're well prepared here in Highland Park for what's about to happen. I'm going to go up on my roof for a little while, and then I'm going to go over to my buddy Dan's from Gimme Gimme Records, hang out in his yard. I'm going to bake some stuff. I'm going to get back into the baking.

Well, it's one specific thing and it's a homage at this point uh i make some hippie bread from angelica kitchen in new york city which is no longer with us angelica kitchen has passed it's moved on it's no longer and this this brick of brown rice oats cornmeal apple cider is a very specific type of bread i wouldn't call it a bread there's no real leavening or rising or or even baking powder involved that is just a a brick that slices up and i make it with uh there's a miso tahini spread that goes with it i found a recipe for it i honor the recipe of the late great Angelica kitchen in New York. And there is a lot of,

uh, of, uh, transplants at this, uh, shindig I go to who, uh, who might know the original hippie cornbread,

the hippie rice brick, the brick of, uh, uh, supposed health, uh, that is Angelica cornbread. So I'm going to be making that. I don't know what you're making, cooking up some meats. You know, we're celebrating

the independence of America. And that has different meaning, I would imagine, for the people of this country tomorrow. Two very different ideas of where America is going and what's happening, what independence means and what democracy means. Some people are going to be celebrating and excited about exactly how things are going. Other people are going to be sort of scared and thoughtful. Either way, whether you're eating in celebration, eating those ribs, eating those steaks, those burgers, those dogs, those brats, whatever you're eating, that slab of salmon on a piece of cedar. Some people are going to be eating out of celebration.

Others are going to be eating out of terror and fear and just, you know, make it go away for a second. Those are the two approaches to grilling this year that you can grill for the uh the glory of america in its current state or you can grill for the uh complete uh existential panic that you're experiencing and eat that shit away either way enjoy it don't blow your fingers off of course that's that's always good watch your kids with the fire and the bombs and the uh yeah watch them with that watch them with the lighters watch ask them where they got whatever they got and try to assess what it's going to do before someone loses an arm it's not worth the fight today today and for christ's sake

be careful with your guns will you in neighborhood, occasionally there's a habit to shoot guns into the air. And, you know, that bullet's going to come down eventually. As it did on my back windshield years back. That was on New Year's Eve. So, yeah, go easy with the gunplay if you could. Either, you know, the violent kind or just the celebratory kind where you just blow a couple rounds into the air because those bullets, they do come down. They don't enter orbit. And for God and country sakes, don't play with the firearms too much unless you're doing it safely.

All right? And don't shoot anybody, for fuck's sake. Would you not do that on the 4th of July? Could we not do that? Oh, my God. Today on the show, it's could we not do that oh my god today on the show it's a double header we have Chavo Guerrero a uh a wrestler he uh he was the trainer on the for the for the women on the show glow which is what I'm on and uh but he also he's a legacy he comes from a wrestling dynasty comes He's like a third-generation wrestler.

And by doing the show, he was actually following in the footsteps of his uncle, Mondo Guerrero, who trained the women on the original GLOW show in the 80s. And Kia Stevens is also on the show. Kia wrestles under the name Awesome Kong and Karma. She's a professional wrestler who actually had uh other aspirations as you'll find in my conversation with her it was great she was the one actual professional wrestler in the cast of the women of glow and one of the things that's great about talking to the people involved in the show outside of sharing with you what uh what the business of show business

is about from the ground up from production from acting from in this show you know training uh and also i'm going to talk to the writers and the creators what we find you know is all the things that are involved in creating entertainment product but also this is a it's an interesting time uh in the culture and you know for someone who didn't grow up with wrestling it's hard not to compare a lot of the tactics uh in the in the media that are going on now to wrestling tactics uh our president is one of the greatest heels that's ever existed really unfortunately he's's in the most powerful position on the world. And, you know, a lot of times, you know, the heel's an entertaining guy,

and he's got an entertaining attitude. And some people watch wrestling, they love the heels, they love the faces, they want the heels to get their comeuppance, but they want the heel to come back and fight some more and be the asshole that they are. And I don't know. I think that in this particular wrestling match, the, you know,

a majority of the citizens of the United States of America will have to be the face. See how that pans out on all levels. But, you know, the sort of monarchy and universe of wrestling, the sort of good and evil, the simplicity of it,

the spectacle of it, the execution of it, those emotions that are grounded in the story, the simplicity of it, the spectacle of it, the execution of it, those emotions that are grounded in the story, but also in the dichotomy, the heel, the face, that's it. You got your people that go both ways kind of deal, but it is honest. And I've been enjoying talking to people involved in wrestling. And I guess it's never too late, never too late to become a fan of wrestling once you get it. So this is me talking to the legendary Chavo García. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats.

Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region.

See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night

on Saturday, March 9th at 5pm in Rock City at torontorock.com Brerow Chavo Guerrero Jr. That's it, man. Sorry about your dad, man. Oh, thanks, man. It's okay. It's good. It. That's it, man. Sorry about your dad, man.

Oh, thanks, man. It's okay. It's good. It's a good thing, man. For all you listeners that don't know, my dad passed away about five weeks ago, six weeks ago, two months ago, something like that. It was good, man. Me and my dad were pretty close.

Yeah. But I could have gotten a call in the middle of night him saying you know them saying your dad passed away last night was he ill he wasn't he he went for a gallbladder thing yeah and they found liver cancer oh so and it was already that far along yeah it's stage four and he's like what are you talking about he goes you've given me like i don't know how many scans and yeah nothing and all of a sudden liver cancer stage four unoperable so i had five straight weeks with him you know really i was with him a lot so it was good and a lot of people have said he was a hero to many yeah man for sure for sure man for sure the wrestling patriarch yeah yeah he

kind of was man this guy was he grew up I mean, my grandfather was a wrestler also. It's so crazy. How far back, how many generations? Three, you're the third? It's three generations, but it goes both sides of the family. So my grandmother met my grandfather because she went to see her brother who was a famous wrestler. In Mexico? In Mexico.

What is that tradition of Mexican wrestling? Did that predate the american obsession how how do they yeah for sure in america it was still kind of very carnival-y-esque i can't say that you had like guys like gorgeous george and those guys yeah uh but our president modeled his career after yeah yeah we can get into that right but uh in mexico these guys became more superhero-esque they started doing uh movies and that kind of stuff so there was a uh famous wrestler named el santo who's my dad's godfather actually and my grandfather's partner at the time were these guys were they doing the masks so nobody did the masks in mexico and this one guy el s Santo, did the mask. And the studios, the Mexican studios, saw the potential in it.

And they started casting him as a superhero in all of these movies. So he became so popular that everybody started adopting that mask. That's where the mask started? That's where the mask came from, yeah. So then our family doesn't do the mask because my grandfather never did. So we kind of, we bucked against it, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. We're too pretty.

We don't need to do it, you know? But, yeah. So there was a generation of Mexican wrestlers that some were masked and some weren't. Yes. And now most of them start off with a mask and then they end up losing it. I don't know. But did that play into the heel and face thing? You know, the mask guys, were they always bad?

Were they good? No. Some guys good no some guys good some guys bad it didn't really really matter and everybody was like a clown face did everyone have their own unique mask yeah you have you have your own unique mask everybody has their own that's only their unique style you know but now lucha as a brand is is the the mexican wrestling it's called lucha libre yeah that is what's mexican wrestling called that's called like free wrestle almost free wrestle free wrestle but you know anytime you say now lucha yeah that's mexican style wrestling although they are good mat wrestlers they do a

lot of like acrobatics and it's it's very flippy and i'll do the ropes and all the different stuff that's like seeing sort of a resurgence in the last decade here in the states yeah everything's kind of like kind of like mma is now to where you kind of have to be a high. Before when MMA started, you were either a puncher or you were a jiu-jitsu guy or you were a karate guy. Right. Well, now you're a hybrid of everybody, of everything, you know? Yeah.

And that's what wrestling is now. Like American wrestling is definitely. Any like high flying moves you see, that's lucha stuff. Yeah. Any real strong style hitting stuff that's japan style um really yeah any like real technical mat wrestling that's kind of that's kind of like um european style and then throw it in with american entertainment right version of it that's where you kind of get what is now but this hybrid all these all these disciplines you're talking about are professional wrestling. So it is a acrobatic, theatrical, scripted match.

Yes, for sure. For sure. Our main objective is entertainment. We're not a great show or a great match. And all these other areas where you talk about Japan and Europe, they have been evolving styles for the last however many years. Yeah. Because wrestling was in France. It all seemed to happen around the same time, right? They have been evolving styles for the last however many years. Yeah, yeah. Because wrestling was in France. It all seemed to happen around the same time, right?

Yeah, in the early 20s. Yeah, yeah. That's when it all started. And it was really kind of at first like a carnival type thing, carny, and then it just got bigger and bigger. And then you got people, you know, that's kind of like how boxing started. Boxing kind of started with just guys would just bare-knuckle fight, you know, and just proud to get around them

and then eventually you got to the you know the rules and the big stadiums and that kind of stuff but still you're just dealing with in terms of how

the outcome of boxing match is going to go it's just the odds of the fight record of the guy like you didn't know they're actually beating the shit

out of each other as wrestlers are too sure we have the luxury of being able to put on the great show i mean mma and boxing although i love all that stuff you know sometimes you go pay for a boxing match or mma match and it's you know it's over in a minute it's over in a second or it's boring as heck and you're like blah this is horrible you know right i don't know how many times i've yelled at my at my tv and yelled at dana white from the

this the head of the ufc and saying you owe me $59.95, jerk. Yeah, with wrestling, you know it's going to go on for a while. Yeah, you know it's going to be pretty good. So where did you grow up primarily? I grew up here in Orange County. I'm from El Paso, Texas. That's where our family's from, Mexico City, but then El Paso, Texas. But we grew up here in Orange County in like Huntington Beach, Fountain Valley area.

And your dad grew up in El Paso? He grew up kind of everywhere. He was on the road when my grandfather was a wrestler. He wrestled everywhere. So my dad grew up almost like an army brat, just kind of all over the place. And they settled in El Paso. And that's where he went to high school at. Yeah.

And then came out here at the olympic auditorium in los angeles and so when your dad was uh uh like at the time that your father was huge in wrestling right it was still sort of uh a special world it wasn't like mainstream entertainment it wasn't yet it was starting to get there like it'd be very localized now like the we say the wwe's territory is is the world now but you had different territories like my dad was part of the los angeles territory which was called a los angeles nwa hollywood wrestling and like people like freddie blassie start came out of there and roddy piper and and you know my father and and others of course and where were they wrestling at the olympic auditorium the old old Olympic Auditorium is now a Korean church,

but it was built in 1930 for the 1932 Olympics. Right. If you look at the size of it, comparative to the big, you know, Staples Centers and stuff now, it's relatively pretty small,

but that's where they had huge, massive bouts and the Olympics and stuff were there. So that's where he would, that was his main, the home of it. Did they shoot a local show there?

Like where I grew up in Albuquerque, they had it at the Civic Auditorium. And then there was a dude that used to host it on Sundays, a little dude with a white beard and white hair. And he'd be the guy interviewing people. Exact same thing here. And every, basically, territory. So you had, here in California, you had the San Francisco territory and you had the Los Angeles territory. But Texas would have four or five different territories. The in, you know, Texas would have, you know, four or five different territories,

the Dallas, El Paso, San Antonio, Houston territories. They all do the same thing. And they have the, they'd have a weekly matches. They all had weekly matches.

They had actually probably, these guys wrestled. They never, they wrestled 300 days a year, 365 days on the year. So on the road, on the road. Yeah.

No, they wrestled every single day. There would be a territory. My dad would do Los Angeles TV on Monday. I'm getting these days wrong. On Monday. Tuesday would be Ventura.

Wednesday would be Fresno. Thursday would be San Diego. Friday would be San Bernardino. And they just have matches so you never knew how many people were going to come. It wasn't necessary.

You never knew. So you had one TV show that propelled all your live events. Huh. Typically, wrestling is a live event business.

They use their TV show to promote their live events, basically. That's kind of how it's still kind of done. Yeah. And these guys got, like, you know,

having, you know, worked with you a little bit on GLOW and also, like, not growing up being a wrestling guy. Sure. Like, you know, like John Darnielle in The Mountain Ghost wrote that beautiful song about your dad, right? Right, right, right.

And because, like, he was a kid who had trouble at home and, you know, wrestling kind of elevated things. And who else was I talking to? I was talking to AJ Lee. You know, she was one of these kids that would watch wrestling, and, you know, she also grew up in a painful childhood. And in her mind, it was like, I can be a superhero. It was kind of like, that's kind of like what we are.

I mean, how they portray us as superheroes, and the new show that I'm doing, Lucha Underground, really comic book superhero is totally the way we go. And you write comics and well i didn't write that one i'm that one's written about me the one you gave me yeah yeah it's called the warrior's creed by on by lion lion forge comics but fabian nascenza who created deadpool yeah that that moved the comic in the movie i like that movie he wrote that book too he did yeah i i i sort of like that movie i was never a comic book guy much or a wrestling

guy i was always it was always rock and roll and shit to me but i love that too yeah there's a crossover now and i just knew that there was a world out there i'm like what the fuck is that but i never like went into it right right but just covered everyone's covered in blood all the time were they yeah they always said that blood you know equaled green. A lot of times they're always bleeding. Did they use fake blood? No, never fake. Always real blood. Yeah.

Always real blood. You know, either, there's two ways to do it. There's either the hard way, which means, you know, straight shot and bust you open. Or they'd sometimes, you know, do a little, we call it the cut job. Oh, really? Yeah. They'd cut themselves sometimes at certain points. That's hard to do because you got to do it and people are watching.

It's not like it's like a cut and then you do it. It's, you know, you do it in front of people. And if they see you, I always say wrestling is like magic. You know, you see Chris Angel. Yeah. We all know it's not real. It's an illusion. Yeah.

But when he floats, I mean, he starts floating. You're like, oh, my God, how's he doing that? What? How's he doing that? Yeah. But as soon as you see the string, you're like, oh, okay. You change the channel. Yeah, yeah.

And the wrestling's the same way. We all, they know it's not real. It's entertainment. But if we can get them to like go, God, I know it's not real, but these guys are really beating the crap out of each other. God, is that real? But as soon as you see the string, which is, you know, a fake punch or, you know, the typical wrestling fall or whatever it is is then you change the channel

that's something we never let him want him right but i think also people appreciate the uh the choreography of it like if you do a good job with one of those moves even though you know it's a move they're like oh that's a good one yeah sure absolutely sure yeah i'm seeing all your guitars around here yeah yeah i'm i'm i'm inspiring are you well i'm new to it yeah yeah i i i'm, I'm, I'm, I'm aspiring. Are you? Well, I'm new to it. Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I'm not, I'm not great at it, but I, I seem to acquire guitars. That's awesome. And I, and I like to play, but, uh, but like, okay. So, so when your old man was doing it, it was a hard life. But then also the fact is, is that whether people know it's, it's staged or it isn't

staged, it doesn't matter. There's a narrative and there are characters and there are people there every week that they know who they know, who the rivalries are with and you know some people like a soap opera for men is what we call it yeah yeah but but also there is physical risk and there is you know these guys are beating the shit out of themselves for sure we've i mean we've that's a lot of stuntmen are really big fans of ours like jackie chan and john claude van damme and chuck norris because they would see what we do 300 days a year with 30 or 40 different opponents,

never really rehearsing, just going out there and doing it. And they were kind of in awe, like, how the heck do you guys do this on the road? And you're doing a different match every single night. And they'd go on set and rehearse it for two weeks. They're like, I don't understand. You guys are in it making the bread. You got to make the money. You got to in it making the bread. You got to make the money.

You got to put it on the show. Basically, yep. So now, at what level, what was the wrestling world? How did your, like in your father's time that he was a big star,

what did that mean at that time? I mean, how big was the? Pretty big. I knew we were growing up in a special family, you know, the girl family,

you know. It's kind of weird because you grow up being, you know, taken care of and signing autographs and that kind of stuff or not that I was but my, you know, girl family you know it's kind of weird because you grow up being you know taking care of and signing autographs and that kind of stuff and or not that i was but my you know being around that that even being a celebrity type thing yeah you know my my family was it's

kind of normal to you yeah uh as i'm older now you see it and kind of really appreciate it but like my kids would you know they'd play be playing video games and playing me yeah and they'd be talking to their friend you know they're like five years old say hey which one is your dad yeah and they just kind of thought everybody's dad was on video games and they're like their friends like what are you talking about my dad's not on video game but could he make a good living your old man yeah you know what they they'd made good limit good livings it wasn't like it is now you're much better now now it's much bigger and and you know, wrestlers make a lot more money. Back then, you know, they made good money, but it's, you know, you get hurt, then you didn't get paid.

There was, you know, no union. There's none of that stuff. Right. And slimy promoters. Very slimy. You. You on our show. I think next season, if we do one, I'm going to evolve into more of a, because the funny thing about that character was that they told me that,

like, your guy doesn't know nothing about wrestling. And I'm like, perfect. Yeah, right, exactly. So now we're going to learn about it. And I wonder how they're going to go with that. I wonder how, because, like, you know, I have the disposition, but now I've got to be educated because, you know, at the beginning of the series, my dream was to do a movie,

and I had a misunderstanding of what was important about wrestling. So I hope as the seasons go on, if they do, that, you know, I become more entrenched in the wrestling. You know, that would seem to make sense to me. Yeah, sure. I think that's the way they'd go because you'd realize, wow, we could actually make some money on this. Right, right. I guess when you were a kid, it was just a natural thing that you were going to be a wrestler. Yeah, we grew up with a wrestling ring in the backyard.

Literally. You did? I had a wrestling ring in the backyard and we just- It was a family business. It's what it was. I mean, my grandmother took the- She helped promote it and took the tickets and we would sell programs and other people would be at concession stands. It's a real road show.

Exactly. It was like you're a rock and roll fan it was like being like a rock rock star all different different venues all the different times always and it's a family affair the merch the the ticket sales everything the guerrero family they're coming to town yeah basically you know yeah so when did you start doing it professional um my first actual match was when i was 23 so that was in 1993 but you've been wrestling in that ring in the backyard since you were a kid yes for sure and your uncle was your yeah eddie grow he was a wrestler too you know so and he was only three years older than me he was one of my uncles i had other uncles that were wrestlers also oh yeah but he was the closest

an age to me right yeah we're like we grew up as brothers basically so we used to wrestle in the backyard uh we would camp out under the ring you know like that was our tent yeah we would take off the top rope so that the second rope was our top rope because we were small you know yeah we just that's just how it was we just lived in the in the ring and what uh and so you were 23 and what was the wrestling scene like then? Because it was already changing. You're thinking the Hulk Hogan years was probably in 83, 84? Yeah. That's probably when it really got really big. Right.

So by 93, yeah, it was massive. All WrestleManias already happened and all that kind of stuff. And you were gunning for that? You think? I don't know. I was so naive when I got into it. I kind of was just like, yeah, okay, I'm going to be a wrestler. How were you naive? You were like, well, you knew you wanted to be a wrestler.

I wanted to be a wrestler. But the business. Yeah, you know, look, I'm a, basically, look, I'm a small brown guy in this big white guy's world. Yeah. I was, these guys were massive. They were, you know, six foot eight and six, five, 300 pounds. So really, I mean, I grew up, I was, you know, five foot nine on a good day. Yeah.

You know, I was weighing at 150 pounds and I always told my friends, hey, I'm up, I was five foot nine on a good day. I was weighing in at 150 pounds. And I always told my friends, hey, I'm going to be a wrestler. And they'd be like, yeah, right. Yeah. Even my family was like, you're just too small. How big was Eddie? My size. My size.

So you guys were both- We were all about the same size, all family. We just kind of made it. I don't know how- But you were coming up at the same time, right? Yeah. You and Eddie. Yeah.

He was three years older than me, but about five years older than me or six years older than me in the wrestling world. And did you guys get involved with Vince and that crew? Not until we got established for a while first. We first started when this other, Ted Turner owned a wrestling organization also called WCW, World Championship Wrestling. That's how we got introduced, basically. Yeah.

We wrestled in Mexico and did some other things. But then the big, huge organization was WCW. And that got purchased by Vince McMahon from the WWF at the time. And then he acquired my contract. My Uncle Eddie had already made the jump to them before. Yeah. Yeah. And was he big on

that circuit eddie yeah absolutely one of the biggest one of the biggest yeah and did you see like did you when you got in what was your relationship with eddie did you guys wrestle together did you yeah we were we're pretty i mean i consider myself and from what people told me that at the time we were probably the best tag team in the world. Yeah. I think so. I mean, there was other great tag teams out there, you know, but as far as everything, as far as being able to do promos, entertain, and wrestle, and fight, and fly, and do everything, be good guys, be bad guys, I think we were the best at the time. Yeah.

What year was that? We started in 2003. Yeah. We had about a year run, and then they broke us up to become singles wrestlers again. But at least you knew each other. They had a family language. Yeah. Right?

We'd been doing that our whole lives. So when people, when they first put us together, they're like, holy dick, holy shit, you guys are so good. I'm like, well, yeah, we've been doing this our whole lives. We never really had to talk in the ring. We just knew what each other was doing in the right right like it was really like a a sixth sense that i i i would he where he left off i would start up right pick up and vice versa yeah just unspoken communication yeah yeah it's very it's it's i mean you it's definitely different than you know

being on stage as far as like stand up and stuff but you but it's the same it's it's this sixth sense that you feel you get you become one with your partner and your opponents and the referee and the crowd you kind of you feel what's going to make them pop you know what i mean it's like we're we go up there like i i consider the the fans as i compare them to to children to babies because a baby if you you have baby if you have kids yeah you you don't they're crying you don't know why they're crying is he dirty is he guys burp does he sleepy does he hung is he hungry yeah you have to figure out what's going to make him stop crying yeah well fans are the same way you get out there they they want to be entertained

they just don't know what they want they want fighting yeah do they want rustling do they want brawling do they want to laugh yeah do they want entertainment it's it's you just you don't know they don't know you have to feel what they want and and honor and you can and you can and you improvise absolutely yeah absolutely yeah for sure and you know when you need to get a laugh and you know when you need to do a flip or whatever yeah for sure there's times when i just i'm facing off with somebody and i can tell oh this is going to be easy they're going to come on every and anything yeah and there's times when i like oh okay let's try lock up boom that didn't work oh really yeah hello let's try let's try rusting that's not going to get them okay so then you got to start feeling them out and both of you in in the match feel that yeah do you have

a do you talk about it out there pretty much now I'm kind of the leader when I get in the ring for the most part. So you just listen to me. Yeah, yeah. If we don't get them, we don't get them going and we don't entertain, then the heat's on me. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. So how much do you do it now? I still do it.

I have another show called Lucha Underground that's uh on netflix now also the first one two seasons that's really doing well um so i'm talent on the show but i produce that show also so i i used to wrestle 300 days a year now i wrestle about 25 30 days a year why because of age or just because of like you didn't you got tired of it's a combination everything i don't have to anymore before you wrestle because, you know, for money, you know. Now I got a bunch of other things that I'm doing, you know, so I don't have to wrestle all the time. Right now I'm in between shows, so I'm picking up other wrestling shows and wrestling signings. But usually as a guy who is a consultant, hands-on, you know, right in that and occasionally talent is that how it

works yeah yeah for sure but like what was any of your decision to kind of ease up outside of financial was it it obviously took a mortal toll on your uncle yeah for yeah i mean what happened to that what was that generation like how did how did he pass away so for sure that was a definite reason why i stepped back. You know that you can't do this forever. We say you can borrow it for a small time and then you got to give it back. So when Eddie grew up, Eddie was growing up in that last, where my father, my father grew up in the Wild West of wrestling. The Wild West, it was the 70s, 80s.

That's the same as Hollywood. Cocaine, steroids. Nobody knew all that stuff was bad for you. Right. You know, and if they did, they didn't listen. Right. They just was, you know, just. They couldn't tell by their behavior.

Yeah, exactly. You're on the road and it just changed, you know. So, Eddie grew up on the back end of that, but he really grew up when prescription pills got bigger, you know my i was asked my dad like hey man how come you never got you know involved with with prescription pills what painkillers yeah painkillers and he's like what i want that for that was legal i wanted the illegal shit you know that's what my dad always said so eddie you know was trying not to do the illegal stuff and was doing well they're prescribed by doctors should be fine so you know having a lot of pain that we have you're trying to mask it trying to keep going

yeah it's very easy to start saying well um god i got a little injury i need i need a pill i got a breakfast injury exactly my fingers will yeah yeah hey i might as well throw down a 12 pack with that too right right so that is what really got eddie now he'd been clean for about three or four years when he passed but just all the damage that he'd already done yeah scar tissue on his heart and that kind of stuff and and just pounding and being on the road and you know we always say that like you're wrestling you're kind of like like a like a piece of meat so like if you have you put two steaks on the counter and you beat the crap out of one and you leave one normal the one that you beat up is going to spoil faster than the other

one. Kind of like how we get us, you know, our wrestling bodies are. So when he passed away, it wasn't shocking? It was shocking. I mean, for sure. I mean, I was with him and I kind of, I was the one who found him. Yeah. He died, basically died in my arms.

Really? Yeah. We're out on the road? We were on the road. We were on the road together. him. Yeah, he basically died in my arms. Really? Yeah. We're out on the road? We were on the road. We were on the road together, yeah. We were in Minneapolis. We were getting ready to wrestle in Minneapolis, a super show for WWE, and then we were going overseas for a tour.

And we just happened to be on the same flight. He lived in Phoenix. I was flying in from Orange County Airport. I connected in Phoenix, and we're like, hey, we're on the same flight. So we roomed together. We ended up getting to a hotel at the same place, and then we went to our own hotel rooms, and he called me and goes,

hey, man, can I talk to you, man? And I was like, yeah, sure, what's going on? He's like, I just need to talk to you. And I was like, all right, hold on a second. I go, let me get some stuff done. I got to go downstairs and work something out with the room and then i'll come up so i got done with with you know getting my stuff done and i gave him a call and i go hey man what room you in and he goes nah man that's okay and i said no man i'm coming up and he goes no i'm okay i'm cool i'm okay all right

seven o'clock in the morning i get a call from the hotel manager and he's saying hey um your uncle didn't answer his wake-up call so we went and knocked on his door i'm gonna call him like oh what do you mean didn't answer his call they're like we he's we found him he's in the bathroom i said in the bathroom what's going on my first thought was he had a relapse yeah you know that's my first because i you know you find sure you find people you know drugged out sleeping on the floor and that kind of stuff. And it happened quite a bit in wrestling back in the day, you know. So I'm thinking, oh, man, he had a relapse. So we went to his room, and I guess they tried to knock on his door, tried to open his door, that the latch was on it.

So they cut the latch off. I came in, and he was face down in his in in the bathroom yeah so we picked him up like well this what this isn't right sorry CPR the whole deal and yeah he died right there oh yeah man it was crazy what was it they said a heart failure mmm 38 years old oh my god yeah right 38 years old and then you and it's weird because you got people that just abuse their bodies until they're 60 years old yeah and are fine yeah 30 relatively relative yeah yeah yeah but yeah uh they live yeah that's sad man 38 years old man it was crazy yeah and it was big shock to the wrestling world yeah oh yeah it was terrible for sure but i'm glad you were there yeah no you know

and it was like just the thing same thing with my dad it was a gift I got to spend his last moments with him and he didn't end up dying in his wife's arm or his kid's arm I had to find him it was mine

so it was a gift I don't get it anyway but in that moment was that like sort of like I don't know if I can no man you just keep going

it's just like Vince McMahon we had a huge meeting and you know Vince came to the hotel room and the whole deal before we released it to the press and everything he's like No, man, you just keep going. It's just like Vince McMahon. We had a huge meeting. Vince came to the hotel room and the whole deal before we released it to the press and everything. He's like, what do we do? We're supposed to have the super show. Do we cancel the show?

And I said, absolutely not. I go, Eddie, he has a show that must go on. Absolutely not. He'd be insulted and hurt that you would cancel the show. And all of these people who pay their money to see us perform were turned away you know my our grandfather always told us that you know these you got these fans that they may not have a lot of money and they're choosing to spend it on you you better give them their money's worth put on the show put that show on so the show must go on and did you announce it at the show yeah vince was Vince was pretty good to make it a tribute show. We announced it right there.

I mean, it's a day of for fuck's sake. Yeah, it's right there, live TV. The day that he passed, you're on TV. Five hours, six hours before we actually went live. Well, how was that crowd? It was a sold out crowd and the place, I mean, it went. That mixture of grief and shock. Yeah, for sure.

You know, there's a wrestler right now and I believe it's, I think it's Sasha Banks, I believe. She was at that show as a kid holding up an Eddie Guerrero sign. Like, I loved Eddie before. Like, he's my favorite wrestler. And he finds out he's dead that day with her sign. Like, what the heck so that's pretty pretty touching

pretty heavy story yeah and she's a wrestler in WWE now it's interesting those wrestling kids become wrestlers yeah

that's tough man it's tough I don't know how they do it I don't know I grew up in the business and just to come be an outsider and step in

it's so much it's so hard in politics and just learning how to be a wrestler. It's funny, though, that there is a way to become. Like when I talk to AJ, you go learn how to wrestle. You get into a local scene. You get the gym.

And you start plugging away. It's sort of like open mic level. And you hope you make a break. It's the same thing it's hollywood you're trying to break in and when you go take acting classes and you know you can try to get a commercial here and there you just keep learning your craft and you go waitress on the side right it's the same thing when you wrestle and you go bounce it or bouncers or somewhere or they you know they work in a gym and they do and they make it right and they do the small matches that's it and hope to you know, they work in a gym and they just try to make it. Right. And they do the small matches. That's it. And hope to, you know, someone goes like, holy shit, where'd that guy come from?

Exactly. So, but now, like, you know, when you have to do something like be a, you know, the trainer on GLOW. Right. Yeah, I'm coming into this world. And I've talked to wrestlers as a guy that doesn't know much about wrestling. And, you know, I've talked to Punk and I've talked to Colt Cabana and I've talked to AJ I've talked to Foley you know my producers was a big wrestling kid sure okay so he keeps me in you know but you know we did a shtick with Foley back in the day on radio where we basically did a wrestling script

on the radio awesome he's great where he kicked someone's ass and people like who were listening right like what happened to that day you know we it was a political show so you know Mick is this you know liberal guy and we had this conservative guy come in who say he wanted to you know take him on and we we staged this fight on the mics and then you know we we played it so it sounded like mick was beating the shit out of this conservative guy he was like oh hey and we ended it abruptly right and then we come back kaufman style style. Right. Yeah, right. And we come back. We're like, well, that kind of got out of hand. So let's just go on with the show.

We got all this mail from liberal people. We're like, that wasn't right that you heard that. You know, I disagree with them, but I don't know what happened there. Right, right. It's the whole wrestling thing. If people ask, is wrestling real? Is wrestling fake? If you say it's real, then they'll argue with you no matter what you say.

No, it's not. It's not real. It's fake. They do some fake punching. If you say it's fake, they say they'll argue with you no matter which is right no it's not it's not real it's fake they do some fake punching if you say it's fake they say well it's not totally fake i mean they're falling right but so no matter what you say they're going to argue with you but but the weird thing is is that the emotions are real oh yeah if you rock in doesn't matter you know no you know no one's saying it's a sport right it's wrestling right but you know the the idea is your suspension of disbelief and to get involved with these characters sure i mean it's wrestling right but you know the the idea is your suspension of disbelief and to get involved with these characters sure i mean it's like it's it's it's i i compare it to a movie all

the time there's there's movies out there we know it's entertainment it's not a re it's not real but i leave that theater sometimes and i'm like god my heart like yeah yeah right yeah but then there's some movies you walk out like i couldn't care less right right it's the same thing there's wrestlers some wrestlers that are so good at pulling your heartstrings, and there's some that, you know, they're just okay. Yeah, right. So the ones that can pull hearts, yeah, those are the ones. Yeah.

So how does the job on GLOW, how did that come about? You know, that's kind of funny. Because you must have known the real GLOW girls. Yes. My uncle, my Uncle Mano mano was actually the original trainer of the original glow glow girls and then the one thing that's true about the show even though it's a it's it is almost all fiction but based on the original glow idea right was that it really was conceived as a television show right absolutely sort of uh make some money off of the wrestling craze right

right no yeah nobody ever girl women were in wrestling but you know very like a special attraction yeah basically there was never a woman's league like a second stage thing like now we're gonna have the ladies come out yeah yeah okay now okay and then a midget would come out or a small person we call them midgets on yeah on wrestling because that's just the way it is yeah uh but you know or or you know the guy would wrestle a bear a special attraction so the women would come out of special attractions. For the most part. Then, this guy put together the, you know, glow, this women's league.

And it was just all women. And from all different, like, the show is sort of like Honest in that they came from a lot of different types of lives. Yeah, they were dancers and actresses and models. Yeah, yeah. You know, same on our show. So basically, I had heard that Jenji Cohen, the executive producer, was creating this show. And so I was like, oh, man, I just got to get in the room with her. So I made a couple calls, and I think she was at William & Morris.

So I pulled some strings, and nothing happened. Nothing happened. So no connection. I pulled some strings and nothing happened. Yeah. Nothing happened. So no connection. I was like, okay, whatever. So then I ended up going on vacation with my family to Lake Powell. We got the boat out. We're heading out. And I get a call from this girl named Shauna Duggins, who happens to be the stunt coordinator

on the show called Glow. Right. the stunt coordinator on the show called Glow. Right. And she's like, she guy was referred to you by this other lady wrestler that I talked to

named Eve Torres and I worked with her on Supergirl and you know, and I'm like, you got to be kidding me. Get the hell out of here. I was trying to get in touch

with everybody and they ended up contacting me. So Shauna being awesome as she is, she was a stunt coordinator but realized that she didn't know wrestling that she needed somebody who actually was going to do the wrestling part yeah they asked me to come in they interviewed me i had an interview at at you know jenji's uh um uh compound yeah koreatown yeah exactly carly and liz the creator is i mean i was there was

15 20 people in the room yeah so we were in, and then I was one of the last ones they interviewed. And it helped that one of the writers named Christopher Diaz wrote plays. And he actually wrote a play called The Legend of Chad Deity or something like that. Yeah, yeah. And it was based on me, kind of. It was based on this, kind of. Yeah. It was based on this wrestler that was really good. He was so good

at making other people look good that he was so good that nobody could make him look good. So he's stuck in this role of making everybody look good all the time. Yeah. So he kind of wrote it about me.

Yeah. So we went and saw this place. So he was a writer there. So I'm having this interview with Liz and Carly and stuff and I see this guy sitting there and they're like, oh, somebody wants to say hi and he's like hey man i wrote that place like oh yeah we met right and he's like yeah so i he's like man you were great and you really put me over

yeah so and i was like oh that helped you know i mean i accepted my 20 bucks afterwards but yeah who else are they gonna get though on some level i mean who the hell were those other people i don't know you're the guy i guess man i don't know, man. You're the guy. I guess, man. I don't know. I'm trying to be. So they hired you. They hired me, yeah. And then you're like, here's 14 girls that don't know anything about wrestling except for Kia. Basically.

You know, basically it was, there's 14 girls that don't know anything about wrestling. And then there's these writers and producers that don't know anything about wrestling. There's these set designers that don't know anything about wrestling. There's all this stuff. And I'm like, oh shit. So my job broadened very fast yeah i mean i was having meetings with the writers and actually they were running scripts by me and terminology by me i was ordering the rings you know i'm like oh we can't use that ring why not that's a boxing ring it's totally different oh we didn't know i mean set design where should we put the ring i mean

wardrobe it was crazy so what's your credit now producer not yet hopefully next season we'll see we'll see it sounds like it should be let's see yeah i gave him one for free so good yes you know what i i didn't even know either you know i just came in and really just came in to train these girls and and you know put some choreographing together and then shauna took me under her wing and then i was able to see what a stunt coordinator does yeah it was you know behind but you also had to make it legit yeah for sure and had to make sure these girls didn't get hurt and but the ring i remember the one the ring broke that day yeah holy shit yeah we had we ran to that and made one of the rings posts broke so what happened is that when we

ordered two rings um the actual hero ring we call it, the set ring, they wanted it lower for camera-wise. So instead of making new posts and making a new ring, they actually cut the posts down. Right, they welded them, right. They welded them down. Well, I guess they did it twice. They said, oh, it's still not low enough. Do it again. So when they welded it, they didn't weld it correctly.

The joint broke. Yeah, they hit too hard. correctly and- The joint broke. Yeah, they hit, did you hit too hard? What was that guy's name? John, John Morrison, John Mundo,

his name's too in Lucha Underground but he's one of my good friends and he came in as one of the trainers on the show as the trainer. Right,

I did my scene with him, yeah. Yeah, and he ended up, you know, he's a pretty big guy and he hit those ropes hard and it busted,

yeah, Oh, that was scary, that sound, everybody freaked out. Everybody freaked out, one of the, I think Jackie Tan, one of the actresses startses starts crying oh yeah crying i'm like oh shit

yeah but we got it straightened out and you know made the new ring yeah and what was the cat who you who work with you the hands-on dude oh um marty lice yeah yeah marty yeah marty was is my head referee at lucia underground and i've worked with him at wwe and other places you two guys were like the pros you're like the the authenticators. Yeah, for sure. We try to be, you know. So what was the, you know, how did you start? Because I missed all that. You know, I came in

and they'd already been training for a few weeks. So like, you know, when you have somebody like Kia. Right. Who is a professional wrestler. Kia wrestled under the name Awesome Kong. Yeah. Who was one of the best wrestlers in the world. Big, big stud of a girl, you know?

And she comes in and I'd always known her at this Awesome Kong, this killer. Yeah. Then she comes in, she's so nice. Hi. I'm like, who the hell is this? Right? So I get all these girls that have never stepped foot in a wrestling ring. A lot of them don't know what wrestling is.

A lot of them have never taken and never done a sport in their life you know i mean literally i was i lined them up and said have you all done any done any sports like you know i'm thinking soccer or basketball they're like well i did dance the other one's like i i was in the shakespeare play i'm like oh my god but what happened is that every one of these girls became that we we I was, I really tried and Shauna Duggins and Helena Berry, our other stunt girl, really, really tried to tap into their like their inner athlete, their inner strength. Right. And every one of these girls stepped up and became so good. And they hadn't fallen in love with wrestling. Doing flips and falls and, you know know hitting the ropes and all different things

and um funny story uh about two weeks in you know where i'm training them we've been training for two weeks yeah and i i said something like okay so just you know cover the person and you know then that's how you win and they're like what and i go wait a minute don't you know how to win you know and they're like no and i said hold on a second everybody stop practice hold on stop stop stop do you all know the rules of wrestling i just assume they did and they're like uh no and i'm like why didn't you all tell me they didn't know how to win like you know if you can get disqualification disqualified or tap somebody out right so okay i had to stop everybody and explain the wrestling

rules i just didn't i just assumed hung up on the choreography and the move yeah i assumed you know that that basically they knew and then then then we got people like like allison allison brie was one of our our leads and she you know didn't really know anything about wrestling but became really really good actually was really great um she she protects wrestling now like somebody she did an interview and somebody was like well you know the wrestling's fake she's like no it's not it's not all fake and she said they're protecting i'm like all right all right girl good good so these girls actually became like wrestlers and fell in love with wrestling i get texts from still all the time saying hey you know we really miss we miss meeting in the ring.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's beautiful. That's cool. Because I think that if there's another season, there's going to be more wrestling. You think? Yeah. Yeah, because the first season is all building up to that first match. Right.

And a lot of the girls didn't get in. Right. There's only, really, I think in the final match. Four or five matches get in. Right. You know, there's only, like, really, I think, in the final match. Four or five matches. Yeah. Yeah. And it's going to be interesting to see, you know, to get them back in shape and then to get, like, get going again, doing some more matches. Some of the Netflix guys ask me, like, you know, where do we go from here?

You know, did you teach them everything? I'm like, oh, no. Yeah. I taught them this much. I got so much more of my bag of tricks. Well, I hope in the next season that the matches become at least half the season. Moving towards these matches, going out of town and stuff, and dealing with the real kind, seeing me evolve as a promoter or as a manager, and then dealing with promoters

and that kind of stuff. Yeah, maybe get you in the ring. Right. Yeah, that'd be awesome. Yeah, as a manager. Sure. And then, you know, dealing with promoters. Yeah. And that kind of stuff. Yeah, maybe get you in the ring. Right. Yeah, that'd be awesome. Yeah, I have to. Yeah. But so you feel that, you know, most of them really got, they became sort of bottom level wrestlers.

Yeah, absolutely. I remember I wasn't teaching them to have a match at WrestleMania. I was teaching them on camera to look like they knew what they were doing in a scene. Right. But at the same time, I had to make sure they were safe in the ring. So I really did train them from the ground up. We learned how to roll. We learned how to fall.

We probably didn't even hit the ropes for the first two weeks. Yeah. Really. We learned the basics. Because it's just like building a house. I always use this terminology. If you build this beautiful house, but you don't build a good foundation, well, that house is going to crumble.

I don't care how good those core beams are. It's the same thing with wrestling. If you don't build that basis, that base, that foundation, which is protecting yourself and protecting your opponent, then you're going to get hurt. Well, it's so amazing because when I talk to you now, that if you weren't there, that the legitimacy of the thing might have been hurt in the sense that the fact was, because I know Liz and Carly and I know the idea and it seemed like a good world and they are

playwrights. But just the fact of the nuts and bolts. So Liz and Carly, our other executive producers were so awesome in the fact of the nuts and bolts. So Liz and Carly, our other executive producers, were so awesome in the fact that they actually wanted to be true to the wrestling world. And they didn't want to insult anybody. Even though they didn't know totally about wrestling, they didn't want to turn people off. Right. So I've had different talks with them. And they were really cool in letting me look at the scripts and kind of, you know, give my suggestions on what to change, what terminology to change. Yeah.

Which different ways, okay, I'm like, you can't say that because you're going to turn the wrestling community off because you're so loyal. Oh, okay, okay. So how about we change this? Anything that made them look like they didn't know what they were talking about? Yes. Different terminology, but like they'd say, oh, well, you know, and there was in one of the scenes they were talking about wrestling different terminology but like they'd say oh well you know and there was in in one of the the scenes they were talking about wrestling being fake i'm like god you just you can't say it like that you can say it's entertainment or say it's a work or something

like this but if you say that wrestling fans are going to go like you know we know we're not stupid yeah we know yeah we choose to believe you know so it's you just don't want to turn anybody off fine line

yeah so they're really cool in changing terminology and changing changing wording changing sentences so I was really proud

I mean my name is attached to it too so I know it's not my project but if the wrestling they're the ones that are going to look at if the wrestling but you're the rest they're

the ones are gonna look at me the wrestling world's gonna look at me and say why did you have you suck yes you know I'm like I didn't write it I'm not the boss but it doesn't matter they're gonna point the finger somebody so you know hopefully I'm really proud of it I think they're gonna be super proud of it too so if hopefully they they are proud of it and they point the finger at me and they like it. Yeah, yeah. And so, and I'm glad you got all this other stuff going on. Yeah, man.

It's one of, you know, Hollywood, you have to diversify a little bit. You know, you have to, you can't just be an actor. You can't just be a stunt guy.

You can't just be a producer. You kind of got to do everything. And then also, it was this amazing learning process for you to work with Sean and that stunt stuff was kind of amazing. Huge.

It's huge learning process. Because you had to show them a little bit too, right? Yeah, well, when they had to do the stand-in stuff and kind of amazing. Huge. It's huge learning process. Because you had to show them a little bit too, right? Yeah. When they had to do the stand-in stuff and take the hit. Yeah, for sure. Well, these girls were, they're stunt girls, so it translates for sure. They knew a lot of what they were doing.

They just didn't know they knew. So, I mean, falls and stuff like that. It was just a form. Yeah. And they're gymnasts too. So, I was able to teach them certain moves and certain things. And they were great. They picked it it up it's like the whole thing that the whole coming together of the team and when I'd see all you guys

working on it or see the matches and even the stunts I got found it very emotional because it's so it's like you know it's real shit yeah and we were pulling for the girls and we're like we're watching like basically as our coaches like it when they hit the move and hit the scene right we're like yeah we high-five each other yes, that was great. Awesome, you know? And then at the same time, I'm watching, you know,

on camera and seeing the scene, see if it translated good in the scene, see if, you know, that, okay, the camera caught that. But at the same time,

I'm hoping these girls aren't breaking their necks. Like, oh my God, oh, they're okay. Okay, they're tough as shit. You don't want Allison to hurt herself. Yeah, exactly, you know.

Or Betty or any of them. Yeah, absolutely. Me too. And hopefully we can go back and do more. And it was certainly an honor working with you and talking to you. No, thanks for having me. Chavo Guerrero, The Real Deal, from a family of real deals. The Real Deal from a family of real deals. Kind of heavy story, but also an amazing story about the process and about, you know, wrestle, what it takes.

You know, what's really cool is I did a radio show. I did Jim Norton, Jim and Sam's show in New York, and I did it with Alison Brie. And Sam, who's a huge wrestling fan was doing the the interviewing of uh of allison and he loves the show he loves um he loves glow but he's a huge wrestling fan so that's a good sign but one of the indicators one of the amazing things chavo was able to do and it dawned on me when i did uh when when sam was talking was that he was watching the moves that the women were doing and they would launch into a move and he would watch that move and if they added on something that had been added on post 1986 if it was a move that didn't exist in the time that the show was set in he was going to just abandon the whole series it was that specific he was like i watched

a move i thought you were going to go into this other one and i was and you didn't and thank god because i would have had to stop watching the show that's hardcore wrestling fan right there and we wouldn't have known that and if it weren't for chavo being on top of the credibility of the time period and the credibility of the process of wrestling we would have lost sam and probably a few other wrestling fans but we did not kia stevens is my next guest and this is a pretty insane story it's a great story and she was great on the show and she's an amazing professional wrestler as well but it sort of goes a different place at the end that you know there's a roundabout arc to her career and what she was thinking. And I was glad that we made time to do this. This is me talking to Kia Stevens or, as you know her, through her personas, Awesome Kong or Karma.

But this is, I know her as Kia, so I went ahead and talked to Kia. You met Hollywood from the real glow. Yes. And you knew her from the real glow. Like you watched the real glow. I watched her from the real glow. And obsessed about her. Really? Her, yeah.

When you were a kid? Hollywood and Vine. Yeah. Because they were so evil. Yeah. When did you, you watched it, how old were you when you first saw it i was like eight and a half nine where we where'd you grow up in carson california where the hell is that that's next to compton and long beach okay and that's uh that was the that was the childhood you were there watching glow watching glow yeah i asked santa claus to make

me glow girl did you really yep i asked santa claus i asked for to make me a glow girl and i asked for um a barbie's and a rocker van uh-huh and i got the van and now you're a glow girl and now i'm a girl but it's funny because he like the show got canceled like really soon after that christmas yeah and i was, there is some Santa Claus. He is not real. Go screw yourself. But the magic is real. I can confirm that the magic is real.

So do you remember wanting to be a wrestler at that age? Yeah. Eight or nine? Yeah. How many kids were in your family? Three. So it was you and what? Two what?

Older sister, younger brother. And my younger brother would torture me because he watched all Heinz wrestling. He's the original wrestling fan in the family. Three years younger, but he was the baby. So my mom was like, don't touch my baby. So he got to torture us, but we could never reciprocate. Couldn't beat him up. No, could not beat up her.

Her lone son, Air, we couldn't beat up the little prince yeah and he would practice moves on me um he would always every saturday he would put me in the camel clutch and he would you know he's younger so he'd wear like dirty underoos where the superman was like black but he didn't they didn't sell him black you know yeah this is gross and i have to wait till my mom came in and was like, ah, let the girl go. Yeah. So it was in your house. Like, this kid, is he still a wrestling fan?

Yeah. Yeah. Somewhat. Not as much as I am. But yeah, he knows his wrestling history and whatnot. Well, the weird thing was, is like, I don't, like, I, you know, I certainly respect and appreciate wrestling, but having not grown up with it or being a fan of it, when I go to look at, like, your Wikipedia page or something, I'm like, who the fuck

wrote this? Some fan. I don't know. I haven't read it lately. No, but it's just the rabbit hole of it. This guy's talking about things like deep wrestling, like all these different associations, federations, where you were, matches you did. It had to be either somebody that works for you or like a real fan.

Real fans. There are people that come up to me and know more about me than I do. And they'll be like, you know, March of 2005, that match. And I'm like, yep, yes. I so remember that. Because I was reading it and I'm like oh my god I don't know if I can go this deep in this stuff

like it was intimidating but I guess like anything else there are people that are just obsessed with it yes and you're like

one of their heroes I am I'm actually one of them I was so obsessed I became a wrestler well how how obsessed were you when you were a kid

did you go to matches no because he didn't travel much on the west side you know we would go to like closed circuit television um you know the viewings yeah but not so much live live tapings uh however um still i obsessed over and then i took a little break you know my teen years i got into other things like you know new kids in the block and whatnot right right the regular pop you know the regular pop culture and then when um the attitude era came around will you explain that to me the attitude era with the like stone cold steve austin and the rock and triple h when that when that popped up real big and the monday night wars between wwe um and wcw yeah then i got re-immersed in wrestling and i was like yeah as a grown-up

kind of as a grown-up what is attitude you ever stand for why do they call it that because um like back then it was like they would cut promos and not give a fuck. Right. Just really raw promos and go out there. And it was not as campy. So that's what got you back in it? Yes. Because it was so raw.

It was so raw. It was so fun. Who were your favorite guys? Stone Cold Steve Austin, Mick Foley, and The Rock. At the time, I was a social worker, and in my office, it was just NSYNC, The Rock, and Harry Potter. That was my obsession. So you were a social worker. So you studied social work in college, and you became a social worker?

Yes. Really? Yeah. Really? Yeah. I didn't finish my degree. Right. All you had to be was like six months away. Yeah. And you could start work.

I was like six months away for like two years. Yeah. Yeah. I got stretched that out like really long. No reason to rush. Right? Yeah. If you're working.

I'm doing a good job here. So what is a... I'm fascinated with social work because I don't talk to many people and I don't know what happens there. Do you work for the city then or how does it work? Well, I worked for a group home called St. Ann's in Los Angeles. Yeah. And I started off as like a social work counselor and I actually moved to their, I became their activities director. So I love to do fun stuff. And so from there,

I kind of went sideways and got into the more really social aspect of it too. Cause I worked with pregnant and parenting teenagers and, you know, they needed a break every now and then. So I'd find activities for them to get away get away from the kid yeah get away from the kid or how to bond with their kid on an activity for a very low budget you know so when they graduated out of saint anne's they knew how to do that right so that so you were actually at saint anne's doing that like you you that was where your office was yeah wow how long

did you do that for i did that for about three years was it rewarding office was? Yeah. Wow. How long did you do that for? I did that for about three years. Was it rewarding? It was very rewarding. Yeah. Yeah. I loved it to see the kids grow up and to see them learn life skills. Yeah, yeah. And they would come back and say hello once they left St. Ann's and they're doing really

well. And now some of them on Facebook, they find me and they're doing really well shout out to theresa alvarado yeah that's great and wait but but wrestling was too too much of a draw for you yes i mean just you know working in a group home these girls lived there right and there were times we had to separate fights and chairs are flying and i'm like shit shit. If I'm going to get hit by a chair, I want it to be in front of 30,000 people. Now, when it's a group home and they're there because they've been put there by the state or they had drug problems or what?

How does that work with a group home? Sometimes both. Yeah. You know, maybe they were in a regular group home. They got pregnant. So, you know, we took them in. Maybe their parents are like really, really old school instead of the convent we got them right because we we were like a catholic related organization yeah we had sisters we had nuns running around the place

and stuff yeah and uh shout out to sister anthony claire um yeah so we got all types. And it was so odd because we got a 10 year old once pregnant and it was just like, what? And her baby daddy was like 40 something. Really? Oh, it was just like, you know. Did he go to jail, that guy? No, no. And it was so hard to keep them, you know, because they would have to sign out to go on leave. And then sometimes he'd like be around the corner to pick her up and it'll just like get enrage you like just like you

what the fuck so and so she's 10 and she like she just turned 11 like two weeks after she got to us but when she we got her she was 10 years old was she able to have the baby yes oh my god she's very grown for her age but she shouldn't have been she was 10 years old. Was she able to have the baby? Yes. Oh, my God. She was very grown for her age, but she shouldn't have been. She was 10 years old. But she had grown up in the system. So it's amazing how grown up you have to be when you grow up in the system. Well, I just don't understand why a guy like that doesn't get busted. They worked on it.

Yeah? Yeah. And it didn't happen? I was gone by the time I didn't see that result. So we don't know. We don't know. You don't know how that battle ended. No.

So you were there for like three years. What made wrestling like a practical thing in your head? Like how did that, how did you realize, how did you decide like I can just do this? There's a path. It was like a joke that went really, really far. Like it just kept going and then it turned into a career. I thought because once I left St. Ann's, I actually went over to an organization called L.A. Shanti and headed up their youth program. And then I had my own business because I went on Wheel of Fortune, won like 10 grand.

And I was like, OK. Wait, you went on Wheel of Fortune? I went on Wheel of Fortune. Do you have videos that i don't i'm sure like abc or whomever it is but uh yeah i was second generation because my mom went on with a fortune too she did yeah so you're like a legacy yeah i'm a fortune legacy so they let you in it's like oh yeah her mom was on come on and we love legacies here. Did you tell Pat that? I did. I did.

And Vanna. They were great. I didn't get to the last round, but I got enough money to be very happy. And I bought a vending business. And then so I was doing very well at a very young age. That's interesting. I know another guy did that vending business. Him and his brother did it in like, I think in Philly or somewhere. You just what? You bought a bunch of machines?

Yep. And how does that work? You just go around and say, can I put a machine here? Well, you can find a company that will contract, find a contract for you. And then they'll supply you with the machine and the contract with, you know, a business, a business park office or somewhere. And you just go in every so often and fill up the machines and collect your money. And you were doing good with that? Yeah, I was doing, you know. I think if I'd stuck around with it and bought more machines, I would have done really well.

But I had like three machines, and I liked it. Yeah, you had three machines. I had three machines, and they pulled off about $200 each a week, which was fair. And then I had the heading up L.A. Shanti. So I was doing very. What's L.A. Shanti exactly? L.A. Shanti was an organization, a nonprofit for AIDS awareness. And I headed up their STAR program, which was Somebody's Talking About HIV Risk.

It was a youth program. We would go around to the schools and talk about HIV risk. Wow. So you really were out there helping the people. Yes. I'm all about community. Yeah. My house burned down twice when I was a kid, and we got a lot of help to rebuild.

And I learned from that. How does your house burn down twice? I know, right? The first time was an electrical fire. Yeah. My little brother burnt some toast. They turned on the fan and the fire started in the wall. That's horrible because you don't see it.

You don't see it. It happened in my house when I was a kid. The whole house was asleep. We had just returned from Knott's Berry Farm real late the night before. And all I knew was I was asleep one minute and then I was sitting on the curb the next. Yeah. That's all I knew and the house was on fire oh my god the next time my um my play my my god brother yeah um was in my room of course yeah and was taking a nap but he decided to light my pom-poms on fire and if you remember pom-poms back in the day they were very flammable so you

light it i mean why not just went up and it burnt only my room. Yeah. And all my Cabbage Patch Kids dolls and my Barbies in the Rockers van went up in smoke. And then the rest of the house got really bad smoke damage. But by God's grace, no one died. Good. Either time. Either time.

So, okay. So how does the joke of wrestling start? My brother-in-law was watching MTV. Yeah. And there was a show called Tough Enough. Yeah. And it was like, you know, if you want to be a WWE wrestler, you can come and try out and live in the house, like the real world, basically.

Yeah. And at the end, whoever's left standing gets like a WWE contract. And, you know, this is back when computers and the internet's kind of new. Yeah. And he's like, can you get me the application? And he said, it's online. And, you know, this is back when computers and the internet's kind of new. Yeah. And he's like, can you get me the application? And he said, it's online. I don't know what that means. And I'm like, okay, yeah.

I download it. I download one for myself, too. And I fill it out for shits and giggles. And I send it in. And I get a call saying, hey, come out to Vegas. We have this like big audition. And I go out there. And I stand in this line with thousands of other people.

And I get in the ring and they're like, yeah, no, you're too overweight to ever be successful in wrestling. And I was like, what? I did not drive my Kia. Yes, my name is Kia and I drive a Kia. I did not drive my Kia through those mountains for you to tell me that. I wouldn't get out the ring. I was like, no, somebody else is asking me some other questions because me and my mom and my best friend no

some of my last little check no somebody's asking me some more questions than they did but still they were like shoot shoot oh really yeah so then you so that gave you this uh you wanted revenge i well i just wanted to say no you don't dismiss me like that's what fire got put under my butt and uh another friend of mine said hey there's a show you know if the weight's the problem there's a show on discovery channel called body challenge yeah and so it was like kind of like the biggest loser but way before the biggest loser came about and so um i was actually too big for them too they were like you know what you're bigger than what we wanted to work with but you are so fun and bubbly we want you know yeah we're

gonna take you on and uh just kind of too big for the world an insult but a compliment but a compliment yeah and um so they found they knew what i wanted to be a wrestler and they found a wrestling school out in san bern, School of Hard Knocks. Yeah. And I started training there, and they set up a wrestling match for me. Is that a famous place? School of Hard Knocks? Yeah.

In the wrestling industry, yeah, very respectable school, head by Jesse Hernandez. Before I go on, though, it's like, I like that your avenue was always through being a contestant. Right? I had to crawl my way and scratch and crawl my way. I'm going to get a win 10 grand on Wheel of Fortune, and I'm going to be a contestant on this MTV thing. I didn't even put that together yet. Here's the other angle.

There's a weight loss show. You could win a trip to Hawaii. I'm going. I love it. But this was a school. Okay, so it's a respectable school. The guys are a real wrestler. Is it affiliated with a league as well?

Like, do they do matches? They do do matches. Empire Wrestling Federation, EWF, is their affiliate wrestling federation. They do all kinds of matches all over Southern California. So when you get there, what's the reaction? A little skeptical because, you know, I'm brand new to wrestling. And when you come into what's the reaction um a little skeptical because you know i'm i'm brand new to wrestling yeah and when you come into wrestling you're a contestant and i'm like this contestant on the show and i got cameras with me and they're like oh here's this

bitch with the big head she's got cameras she's you know right it's naughty but um i don't think at the beginning i don't think they thought i was taking it. Like I was going to be this fly-by-night person that once the cameras was gone, I wasn't going to be interested in wrestling anymore. And they probably thought, like, well, this will get promotion for the school, too. Yeah, so why not do it, you know? Yeah.

And it did, and, you know, and they still put on, the company's doing great to this day, EWF. So you stayed there and trained, though. You didn't, you shot with the show. Yes. And how long did that go on for, that show?

Did anything come out of that? Did you lose the weight you wanted to? I did lose the weight that I wanted to. I got very fit. And then they had set up a surprise meeting with Chyna, may she rest in peace, at the time. And she was going back and forth to Japan and so I went over to the New Japan Dojo to meet her where's that that was in west that was like in Santa Monica West Los Angeles wait now what is okay so wait let's let's back up a minute so you

train for a while you learn how to wrestle yeah about two months only two months I mean what do you learn that you learn basic moves and you what do you learn i basically knew how to run the ropes yeah throw a clothesline and of course our foundation of taking bumps falling and right right sure okay so you knew that stuff i knew that so china you you met her or i met her they like they had like you know for the a segment of the show oh right it was like meet your hero you know yeah and uh it of the show. Oh, right. Meet your hero. Meet your hero, you know. Yeah. And it was so funny because at the time I was a real big Lita fan and they kept trying to make me say that Chyna was my number one. And I was like, no, but I'm a really big Lita fan. I like Chyna, but I'm a really big Lita fan.

They were like, but if you could just say. So when you meet her, it seems like it means more. Right. It means more. But it did. I popped huge. I love her to death. And since she was doing that back and forth, there was a woman's promotion, All Japan Women. And All Japan Women in Japan was huge in the 80s and early 90s.

I mean, just a magnet. For wrestling fans. For wrestling. And just to work as well general pop culture like it was it's like a japanese national treasure oh okay and they had an office in la no he came out just to find some talent for a big show that they had right and um me and another friend of mine shelly we tried out And she had years and years of experience. Yeah.

And I just went just to figure out how, you know, what you'd want to try out. Chose me. And I think mainly he chose me because I didn't have experience. And they could train me and mold me the way they wanted to. And not have to strip down any bad habits I had developed in wrestling. Right. But they saw the skill. They saw that you could be a character, that you could do the thing.

Yes. I mean, because I grew up in high school, I was a cheerleader, so I knew how to base very well, and that's very important. Base, what does that mean? Like if you're going to throw somebody or have to hold them up in the air, I know how to hold somebody up in the air and not drop them on their head. You get that from cheerleading, you know? Because wrestling is like a big dance, a big

like slam dance, you know? So I knew how to do that and they could see that foundation and they chose to bring me on and work with me. And you go to Japan? I go to Japan. And my job let me go for a week. At the LA Shanti?

Yeah, okay. So you go, like they choose you, you go to LA for a week and what they choose you you go to LA for a week and what do you or you go to Japan for a week what do you do it's weird must be amazing to go to Japan

the first time it was I want to go to Japan I've never been to Japan very nervous they gave me some tapes of Japanese women's wrestling and it was wild

how is it different it's just so like in America you can go like 12 minutes in the first three four minutes you're talking and jibber jabbering yeah in japan you ring that bell you're fighting you're fighting i mean for a good 20 30 minutes you are going at it yeah hardly um you know in america we'll hit each other and we'll sell it a lot. Yeah. In Japan, they'll hit each other and get right back up and start just clawing at each other. So, it's really about the fight. Yes.

I mean, it's vicious. Not about the show, necessarily. Yeah, no. It's about this, you know, they report kayfabe, which is like how we separate the magic from the viewers, is alive and well in Japan. Like, they report on wrestling in japan like it's a sport like right next to baseball and basketball they report on wrestling that way uh-huh so so it's integrated into the culture and nobody sits around going like no no

not real yeah they kind of you know they kind of ignore the right right the script the script of it yeah so are the are the characters as defined there as they are in the States? Like, I mean, do, like, the people, their personas, are they as, you know, dramatic and well-defined? Some are. Yeah. Some are, but most are filled with the fighting spirit. Oh, yeah? Yeah.

Just all about the fire. Yeah. Can you get back up after being slammed down by a person of my size right where's that fire right and that that's what it's driving that's what's driving it not you know not uh ridiculous persona not ridiculous not no not driving it but you know you have a few which makes it still fun you know so when you get there you've got a limited amount of experience and so what transpires and what may ultimately makes you decide to to do it for life um let me see it's weird because my my first wrestling name was vixen that was from here

that was from here and i wore black leather because I just got fit. I had big boobs and a big butt and a small waist. And yeah. Yeah. So I go to Japan and they want to name me Amazing Kong. And I didn't know how to feel about that. I was like. Just in what it implied in American culture. Yes.

I don't know if y'all know what that might mean in america but so i had to actually this this happened before i even went because i went to the dojo the new japan dojo in la and one of the wrestlers shinsuke nakamura who's a ww wrestler now was like oh amazing kong and he points at me and calls me Kong and I'm like what the fuck did you just call me right what is this what kind of racist country am I going to and then he had to show me a magazine article saying no they named you Amazing Kong and I'm like oh okay without you really getting into it yeah without even asking me or anything. Well, what is the history of the name? What does it mean in Japan?

Well, you know, it denotes strength more than a racial slur. And there's a wrestler named Aja Kong who is extremely famous in Japan. But at the time, I didn't really know about Aja's background. And I hadn't been immersed in Japanese women's wrestling. Right. But I went home and I thought about it. And it's so funny, an NWA song came on. Yeah.

And I was like, well, if NWA can be niggas with attitude and own it, you know? Right. I could be awesome or Amazing Kong and own it and you know right i could be awesome or amazing kong and own it and make that name mean something yes and and so when people hear amazing kong they fear and they respect that name yeah does that right right right there's no implication there's no implication and then i get to do if i get to a place you know if i'm famous enough i get to a place where I get to do, if I get to a place, you know, if I'm famous enough, I get to a place where I get to help somebody else, then that endowment was worth it. Right. And you did it.

You pulled it off. Yes. Yeah. So now, are your folks supportive of this whole adventure of you entering and becoming a professional wrestler? Yes. Well, they're supportive of everything I do, but it's always like Kia's on an adventure. Yeah.

Okay, okay. So now she's going to be a wrestler, y'all. Yeah, right. She went on the floor. Now she's going to be a wrestler. What else are you going to do? You know, you're going to jump out of planes next year because you're always into something. Right.

But this one's stuck, I guess. This one's stuck. So once you get identified as Awesome Kong and you accept it, you move to Japan? Yes, because the L.A. Shanti wouldn't let me go a second time. And I had no, this was just for one show. And I had no like real security. I had some savings, but like four, six months worth of savings. Vending machines are gone?

Vending machines. I sold my vending machines and I just sold everything but i took a chance i said this is what i want to do when i have kids i want to tell them i did something wild and crazy when i was younger because if i if i'm a social worker now or in this business now i can always come back to it sure so why not take a chance and spend i was gonna my plan was to devote five years and immerse myself in everything wrestling and see what happens after that. And yeah, and it worked. And you went to Japan.

I went to Japan. And you became a huge wrestling star. Yes. Awesome Kong. Amazing Kong there. Amazing Kong. Amazing Kong there. Awesome Kong here.

But Kong stuck. Kong stuck. Couldn't shake the Kong. Now, I have to assume that you're an anomaly. You're like different in Japan. Yes. It must have been sort of historical on some level. Semi.

You know, Aja was half black and and and half japanese but i mean i'm a darker shade of black yeah so i mean i came out as a heel heel yeah and it's it's so funny because i worked with the sweetest people who just cared for me totally out there yeah but they would do the most they would request the most stereotypical stuff of me and i'm like i don't think y'all understand that's not what all black people are about like what we did on glow almost beyond um like you know they were like can you dance you go in the ring and you dance and i'm like so you're there for how many years? Six.

Wow. Six years. I thought I'd only stay for two. I was like, I'll stay for two and then I'm going to leave. And you're like a champion. You're like the... Yes. And you're doing both heel and face? Heel and face and tweener.

You know, it was just, you know... Tweeners, what is that? Like in between. Oh, really? Like, you know, depending on who you face. You know, if you're facing a certain kind of face. Yeah. Or a certain kind of heel.

Maybe you're in between just because of the size difference. And it was like, you know, almost case by case. But if you're facing the favorite face, then you are seriously the heel. Yeah, so I was a tweener. And how did the structure of the shows, like, evolve? Was there a staff of writers? How did they do it there? There was mostly a staff of writers how did they do it there um there was mostly a staff of bookers yeah like they didn't really write much there was no script no they would just

you know have the lineup and then maybe at the end of the show somebody would cut a promo that would you know entice people to come to the next show okay you know like next you know next show i'm gonna challenge you for the belt but not as intricate as in america with all the storylines we have in america not as intricate somewhat but not really so i guess that goes back again to that the the the reality was it was about fighting more than character yeah so you know like you're not you're not necessarily following the line of like a character through the years no like right i mean but you have a character yeah mine was just beastly yeah but which is which is why i got really good with telling

expressions on my face because the first six months a year i didn't really speak that great of japanese right so i just had to tell my story with my face. Well, they have a history of that, too, don't they? Like Kabuki theater and whatnot. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So you learn Japanese?

Ah. Yeah? A little bit. Skoshidake. Yeah. Yes. You can do it. Yes.

Yeah. Like my friends say, I have a speaking capacity of like a first grader. I'm like, I've had a conversation with some sassy first graders so yeah okay i'll take it so what makes you decide to come back it was time like something yeah something just said get up and go and i and there was no reason for it i was doing well right uh but it was like you know what no get and go, Kia. And I'm glad I did because barely months after I returned, my mom got sick of cancer. And I took care of her. And barely seven months later, she died.

So I feel very blessed. That you just like. That I wrapped everything up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And came back on time. You can be there for her. I can be there for her. Oh, that's sad.

And then I moved on to tna kind of right away which is a total non-stop action wrestling impact and that's a league that's a league yeah that's like the second biggest league in america okay right now next to wwe next to wwe okay you know and that opened a lot of that door opened and I went right on in and they started a really wonderful women's program there and just really elevated

my profile in America. But they changed you to Amazing, Awesome Kong? Awesome Kong. Yeah. You know, they wanted to own it.

Right. Yeah. That's the only reason? That was the only reason. Amazing was fine, but they're like, fuck that. Don't you like Awesome? You know, Amazing was fine, but they're like, fuck that. Don't you like awesome?

You know, amazing is great, but you're awesome. While they're like doing the trademark in the back. Sure. So you don't own your name? No, I do not. And the reason for that is what? Like, why do they own the names? Because it's their company and they came up with it.

So they can use it for video games dolls or whatever the hell else yes and they can control you right and if you leave oh you leave with just yeah with your old name with your original name yep with your original name good luck with it yeah who knows you nobody so they hadn't they didn't have a big women's program no not at all it wasn't until um me and about six other girls they hired at the exact same time they started this really big women's program and it gained traction and like the women's program at that time was like the the largest rated segments on the show oh wow and it just garnered a lot of respect from the fans and just got bigger and bigger and by this time you've got moves you're pro you know how to do it i know i do it and you learned all

that in japan learned it all in japan did you have tricks that they didn't know all the girls knew their stuff right but then you know we all shared and traded secrets that we all picked up over the years oh yeah yeah because you know like i said in japan you hit hard you go and i mean you go yeah so i came in and like bam yeah and the girls go hey kia so you know we can lighten that up a bit and make it look just as powerful without the actual impact i'm like oh so you don't want me to actually punch you in the face okay i can do that so in japan you actually punch people in the face well you know yes people got hurt more yeah it was a little bit more hard-hitting than it is in america no not a little a lot more hard-hitting than it is

in america still still hmm and how long do you stay over there at tna um two years the first time a year the second time why why why do you move around so much like i was noticing that looking at your history like there's a lot of matches there's a lot of moving around so like what happens i mean oh my gosh i mean what you don't have to answer anything um well you know in japan it was Japan. Made good money, but it's not America. Right. Come to America, it's TNA. Made okay money.

Yeah. But it's not WWE. Right. So you're constantly looking to elevate yourself. To get into the big league. To get into where wrestling is going to actually take care of you because, you know, you have a finite amount of years to do this. Right. And then once you're done, you want to have a nest egg so you can enjoy life.

And you'd like to be able to walk. Yes. That too. Yeah. And you don't want to have all your organs fucked up and everything else. Yes, exactly. It's hard. It seems like it's difficult to take care of yourself.

Yes, it's very difficult. Because it's brutal. It's extremely brutal. The falls are extremely brutal. So the chase is really to get to the WWE somehow. Somehow. That's where the money is. And when you're doing something like TNA, is there a path?

Do you know what? Because just as a comic, you know the big game is that you want to get on Letterman, you want to get a sitcom, or you're going to do your stand-up, and you're going to keep writing, and you're going to keep working, but you're waiting for a break. So how does that work once you're a pro wrestler and you've got some name recognition? What do you have to go through? After TNA, you went where?

After TNA, I went straight to WWE. Oh mean you know how many after tna you went where after tna i went straight to wwe oh you did yeah after a few months of my non-compete clause then i went there oh so that so it happened for you you didn't have to go do weird you know sad matches in the middle of nowhere no i had to do that too yeah you know the non-compete clause is that the independent circuit yes the independent circuit i had to do that because my non-compete clause says you just can't go from us to another big television show so what what is that independent circuit like where how do you find fights in that mostly they find you yeah you know um if you have they hear you're out yeah they're like oh good there's another one that's really good we can exactly but uh you didn't know what you were walking into you what is it you never knew i mean somebody

like one time somebody tried to make up the difference in hot dogs no and i was like no oh man so but were they gonna travel well but they met they always met basic requirements like safe ring some sort of venue uh wish i would have requested that no um basic requirements was usually um an air ticket and a hotel and transportation to and from the venue so you didn't know what the venue was or whether the ring was anything or whether there was a ring whether there was a ring or usually there was a ring but whether it was safe or not i don't know you know it was just like take care of yourself you know sometimes the boards be warped and you have like a tp in the middle and what are the crowds were hit or miss

or usually they're good crowds usually if they brought someone like me in that had send my name yeah they would draw pretty well yeah yeah and it was funny because sometimes they would draw these independent shows would draw better than when tna would go out on the road and i was like really yeah i was like what's up with that maybe ticket cost or maybe i think promotion and also i i bet you like there's a lot of wrestling fans that prefer independent like they think they're like punk rock like yes fuck tna fuck wwe yeah Independence where it's happening. That's where. Yeah. It's raw. So you did that for a while and then you get your WWE break.

Yes. And I was in Boston at the time and I drive down there just thinking I was going to say, you know, hi, I'm Kia. Hello. And they hired me that day. And it was like a dream. It was just like floating on air. Yeah.

I was just happy just to walk in the building and say hey yeah i walked in the building over there but they knew you yes like you know your reputation preceded you and your skill set preceded you yeah it wasn't like you were some greenhorn that just came in they didn't know who is this woman no they they knew me from tna and and the circuit because girls, I had never sent anything to WWE because I was waiting on my non-compete clause. But girls from the independent circuit that I faced, when they would send stuff in, they would send their best stuff in. Right.

And their best stuff in was with me. So they did your work for you. Yes. Thank you, girls. So you get hired and it's like, that's it. It's a dream come true. It's a dream come true. And you're going to fight under Amazing Kong?

No, we came up with a different name. Oh, because TNA owned Amazing Kong. TNA owned Awesome Kong. So yeah, let's come up with some. Let's see. They were like, if you had a magic wand, what would you want to be? Yeah. And I was like, you you had a magic wand, what would you want to be? Yeah.

I was like, you're giving me the wand. What? Boom. I want another Barbie's in Arkham. No. Your house is going to have to be burned down. Right? I came up with the name Karma.

I came up with a bunch of different names. Karma's a good name. Thank you. Yes. Because it can go either way. It can go either way. Right. Definitely. and i live my life through karma i certainly believe you get what you put out there yeah universe right and i it was like eight names i submitted and some of them were ridiculous because i was like it's wrestling so

they're gonna want like a and i'm like their first oh um bbw girl so maybe i should pick a name that the initials are like bbw how about marcissa be wicked yes yes marcissa yes this is genius oh yes oh well and i picked out like some ridiculous what is bbw like a big beautiful woman okay that's what that's i'm sorry i'm a old white man bbw beautiful woman that's what that's down. I'm sorry. I'm an old white man. BBW. Big Beautiful Woman. That's the abbreviation? Yeah. If you're texting or you put. Yeah.

BBW. Got it. Big Beautiful Woman. Got it. And so I'm like their first big BBW DUS. So, you know, maybe they're going to want me to be like ridiculous. But no, that's not what they want. They're like, hey, no.

What do you want? And I put Karma. Karma was the last last name it was like a throw-in yeah it was like oh turning your list in like two minutes okay karma and i'm gonna spell with an h because you know they like to trademark shit so here yeah and then and vince picked karma wow yeah so. So how long before you start fighting? About two months. Do you have to decide? Two, three months later. Who decides outfits and stuff?

They wanted me to debut very big. You already had long hair, right? You said, didn't you have signature braids? Yes. Wild woman. Yes. Yeah. And so they wanted a nude, not new look but kind of a you know kind

of similar kind of recognizable but different and so they found a seamstress in new york and we made this kong i mean this karma suit yeah and or gear battle gear and um i debut and for about four weeks it's just this massive debut uh at first they did like vignettes of me like breaking barbie dolls and people got excited and they're like yes and then i debut and i'm like killing it and then the stick turned blue. Oh, shit. Yeah. Really? Turned blue? Yeah.

And I was like, what? Wait, time out. What? And it was. Four weeks in? Four weeks in, man. And I was like, what? No.

That's. No. Yeah. And I go to the doctor. She's like, congratulations. I'm like for what what oh man that's the one thing you don't want to go to vincent man with and had to go and vincent man and say hey you remember all that money you just put into me that big day you we had can i take nine months off man what a baby but you had to do that i had to do that and it's it's they were very supportive um

some people though congratulated me and it was very obvious that they were like congratulations great fucked up your career uh but you know um there was never a question as to whether you would have the baby or not for me no yeah it was yeah you have the baby i'm having a baby yes sorry so uh with the man yes oh good you met him dan yeah he's good guy yeah so okay so so right at that at-week mark, when do you take, does it stop there? Yeah, kind of immediately. I do like- Because they don't want to put any more money in because in three months you're not going to be able to work.

Right. We do a promo with me in the ring. First day I'm crying and the next day I cut a promo saying, hey, I'm having a baby. I'll be back. Thank you. Yeah. What not. had a promo saying hey i'm having a baby i'll be back thank you yeah whatnot um but it was not meant to be lost the baby and that was emotionally really

oh soul crushing to this day it's very very hard like when we filmed episode two i was very like i don't know if i can be here right now this is hard wait what happened in episode two mail rolls with the ketchup oh and i was like i really know i know nobody knows but this is torture wow um but watching it yeah at the premiere was funny as hell yeah oh gosh i laughed so hard there's a lot of stuff in the show that like i imagine for me being the dick gosh i laughed so hard there's a lot of stuff in the show that like i imagine for me being the dick that i am on the show is a little different but you know some of the stuff that the women go through is like fucking you know some real shit yeah you know i mean i'm there but like like i wasn't gonna register a miscarriage in the same

way so right yeah so how long into it before when that happened? About six months. Oh my God. Yeah, late term. I had to deliver and everything. It was very, it had complications and, you know,

hospitalized in and out for a couple of months. Yeah. Blood transfusions. It was just hard. Yeah. So it took me a while to come back.

I came back that January at the Royal Rumble and that was the last time anyone saw me in WWE ever again. Whose choice was that? The company's. I just think they felt I wasn't

in the shape or emotional space I needed to be to be on the road and they were right. They were. Yeah. Because you were just so broken up about it. I was just very broken up. How long did that last? Three years.

Oh, boy. To this day, but three years of very just, I'm in the house, I'm shut off from the world, don't talk to me, it'll be okay someday, but right now I just need to sit here.

So you didn't work at all? I worked, but it was very, I was on autopilot. Right. You know, you got to eat. Yeah. But I was on autopilot. I didn't socialize, but I would go do my thing. Because you were just heartbroken.

Yeah. Just go do my thing and come back home and that was it. Because thankfully with wrestling, you only have to do it like maybe five, six times a month to keep things afloat. What sort of gave way that enabled you to kind of start functioning again? I think once your body goes through changes, once the hormones and the postpartum calms down yeah and i'm dan and i were on a good foot yeah and we had moved and so we're in this new space yeah and then oddly tna came back into my life gave me a call say hey we want you to come back and i can't i was like well okay i'm not doing anything i'm not really doing anything i will come back as long as it's

fun and i'll stay as long as it's fun yeah and i did i stayed as long as it was fun and once it wasn't fun anymore you left i was gone how long was that for a year yeah almost exactly but it helped you get out of the it did oh that year was such a blast because i just i just didn't care one way or the other it was like you know maybe this is my last year in wrestling have some fun right and then deuces kia yeah and and so you you lasted you you stayed a year and then it got not fun it got very not fun and then what happens uh i leave and two months later i get a call saying hey Kia there's a script about Glow and I

think you should read for it who called you? Brian Wittenstein he's now my rep he was a friend of mine in wrestling back in my first TNA days and now he's a Hollywood agent and he gives me a call and he's like there's this part and it was for Cherry actually

and I didn't get Cherry and I was like oh no and he's like, there's this part. And it was for Cherry, actually. And I didn't get Cherry. And I was like, oh, no. He's like, but wait, wait, wait. There's more. There's this other part. They liked your tape. They want, you know, that word bubbly came up again. They want you to read for something else.

And I'm like, okay. And I was actually on my way to Japan at the time to do a show for Aja, Aja Kong, her 30th anniversary. And I'm in the airport and I'm cutting, reading the sides and everything. And we put it together and we send it in. And about a month later, they called and said, yeah, you got Tame. And I was like, yes. Oh. This is awesome.

And the rest is history. And the rest is history. Well, you did a great job. Thank you. And I think that like, you know, we had that one big scene together that you were nervous about where you come into the office. Oh, yeah. You remember that?

Yeah, I do. So nervous. But you're so good. Oh, thank you. I was nervous too. I was nervous the whole time. Kinda. I didn't know.

You know, like. I couldn't tell because you float. Like you, you, watching you are Sam Sylvia. I became that guy pretty good. Yes. But you were great. I mean that guy pretty good. Yes. But you were great. I mean, everything you did was great. And I like even, you know, there's a scene there.

There's a brief moment where, you know, when you take Betty's baby, that was just so beautiful. You know, like you like it seems to me that whatever experience you had, you know, in performing, you know, really enabled you like you were comfortable were comfortable in your body, and you were expressive, and your emotions were right there all the time. And, like, you know, you knew how to act. I don't know if you knew you did, but you definitely did. Oh, thank you. I grew up in acting.

I don't know if I... No. We didn't talk about that. No, we didn't. My mom was an actress. Oh, really? And then later transformed behind the camera. And, you know, that's why she was so... She knew what to do to get on with the fortune.

She was an actress in dramatic. Oh, really? Yeah. She actually did a movie. She started a movie with Americana, a glow girl called provoked. Yeah. So I grew up going to auditions.

I never got a principal part, but I did some back then. We call it extra work today. We call it background work. My brother got some principal stuff, but yeah, I grew up on sets and stuff. Oh, so you knew it.

Took drama, and I was a drama nerd in school, was in plays and whatnot. Oh, so it was like, yeah. So entertainment's always been, and like Ruth, I thought wrestling would be my way in to entertainment. It took 15 effing years, but now I'm finally a principal actor on the show but that was so in your mind that was part of your original intention i mean i loved wrestling right you know my mom always wanted to be like that star but she put being a mom first and to care for kids right now and i thought you know yeah if i can get into wrestling i mean look at the rock

you know because at the time he was doing uh right when i got into wrestling he was doing the mummy and he did the scorpion king so you knew that was a possibility i knew that was a possibility and and and then stone coasty vaughnston was on like the chuck norris whatever chuck norris is doing at the time yeah yeah like uh yeah that something texas range yes yes and so i'm like that's a yeah and then you just got taken away by wrestling i did i got him mad it sucked i mean because like it was just like very comfortable yeah i knew how to do it in my sleep like i said i was on autopilot during you know all my depression so it was like well yeah i know how to fight and play fights so yeah so this was a big break you know that you know you want you this was part of the goal yes

it wasn't like you know we took her away from wrestling no no it was not it's so it's sad your mom couldn't see it it's very sad she would but you know liz and carly were great they put little nods to her and show like on my head shot and back with some things that she did oh really yeah and um she later became the contestant coordinator for family feud so they put in there that i was the audience coordinator for family feud oh that sweet. And so that was very sweet. Like me and my sister were like, gosh, why is she here just to see this? Yeah. Now, what about your dad? Is he part of your thing?

My father lives in Pennsylvania. Well, I have two fathers. I have my biological father and then my father who raised me, who's my papa. That's my daddy. The one who was married to your mom. The mom's, yeah. Tony Durant. That's my dad.

I'm a daddy's girl. That's my daddy. The one who was married to your mom. The mom's, yeah. Tony Durant. That's my dad. Is he here? I'm a daddy's girl. He moved to Pennsylvania after my mom passed with his new girlfriend. It was really weird because she looks like my mom in a very weird way. And it was like dressing her in my mom's clothes. I'm like, oh, daddy. Oh, daddy. What are you doing?

What are you doing? You poor. He loved her, though. He loved her doing? What are you doing? You poor. He loved her, though. Like, he loved her. So we kind of got it. We're like, oh, that's my mama's stuff. Oh, wait, that's right. You're broken, dude.

Go ahead. Go at it. Here's a jacket. Is he still around? Yes. My father is very, very, he checks in on me all the time. Is he excited about the show? Yeah.

He called when i was on the way to the premiere and he was like i just saw you on tv oh wow i saw you on the you was on the commercial he's on the beauty good and i was just like oh papa that's sweet and what about the biological dad you ever find that guy uh well you know um i'm very yes we know where he is he knows where we are and i'm very close i was very close with my you know his his mom and his dad and my grandparents he was just not part really but it didn't matter because i had i had me a dad sure sure yeah so you know where he is yeah i know where he is you know that I know where he is. That's enough. That's enough.

Well, look, I think I'm very excited for you, for the glow. I hope we get another season because it was fun. It was so fun. And there's so much more to learn about so many of the characters, you included. That's the most exciting thing about the possibility of another show. It's not really about the job as much as like what happens. What happens. I'm in with the rest of the world like what happens?

Yeah. What happens next? We don't know. We don't know. None of us know. None of us know. I think we'll find out pretty soon. Yes.

Well, I got a question then. Was there like when we were getting the scripts, did you have any similar issues that your character had with Welfare Queen as you, Kia named kong it was like okay i'm welfare queen and then kong i had a problem with and it's like what you know what do you do with that so you know you applied the same sort of oh i applied the same sort of you know i'm gonna own it and i'm gonna own it and that's what tamay does she's like yeah i'm gonna Y'all didn't get wise, my people. It was great. It was great.

It really plays. You know, the weird thing is, is that so much of it doesn't seem that dated. Right. That the issues still persist. Right. Right. Like, seriously, when you think about it. Even more now.

Yeah. Yeah. We still got Russia themes playing to this day. Terrorist themes. Yes. You know, class themes, race themes. Yeah. Yeah. We still got Russia themes playing to this day. Terrorist themes. Yes. You know, class themes, race themes. Man. Yeah.

It's really, because I know that when we were shooting it, you know, we were there the night of the election. It was like devastating. Yes. That set was just devastating. Yes. And so much of it was written with this sort of, you know, swagger and confidence of heading into the first female president.

Sure was. of you know swagger and confidence of heading into the first female president sure and then now that that did not happen and you know the opposite really happened of everything we had gotten comfortable with i i you know sadly think that the show means more yes you know do you feel that oh i feel that definitely it's wild sad but wild sad good Sad and good. Yes. Something to cling to. Well, good. Well, I hope to see you in a couple months. Yes, me too, Mark. Thanks, Kia.

Thank you. See that? See that? You never know how you're going to arrive where you want to be if you're lucky. So, again, have a safe fourth um do i need to play guitar i'll do it next week all right be careful will you boomer lives We'll be right back. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family.

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