WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 832 - David Alan Grier / Joe Mande

Episode Date: July 26, 2017

David Alan Grier studied to become a serious actor at Yale School of Drama, which actually came in handy when he got cast on one of the funniest shows of all time, In Living Color. David talks with Marc about his varied career on stage, screen and in the comedy clubs. Plus, comedian Joe Mande takes a break from Twitter to stop by the garage and talk about how he staged an award show for his new standup special. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category,

and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers?

What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fuck are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fucksters what the fuckadelics what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf thank you for tuning in i appreciate it how's it going hey you know if it's uh i don't know what's gonna happen i'm recording this the day before so So Thursday, if there's still time, as there is, call your senators. Call your senators. Email them. Do whatever you need to do to voice your disapproval of rushing this heinous, murderous health care repeal bill through Congress, through the Senate. Do it.

You don't want to see your neighbors die because they can't get health insurance or they lose the stuff they got. You just want to watch your neighbors and coworkers and friends or people that work for you or people you know just all of a sudden lose all hope because it's pulled out from under them.

For what reason? For what reason? This is America. We should be the best. Not the fucking most embarrassing shit show circus on the planet if anybody's feeling extraordinarily excited and proud of what we're going through as a country right now i don't know man i don't know what's up with you i really don't i know you probably don't like me but man man where's your humanity where's your fucking class where's your dignity where's your

national pride what a fucking shit show you just don't know what's going to happen from one day the next and you don't know when it's going to be all over. Because all of a sudden, it's not about the country anymore. It's just about protecting a narcissistic, spiteful lunatic. Who does not give shit number one about the United States of America. Zero shits he gives. All about himself. You guys just keep being proud to protect him.

Yeah. Yeah, that's good. That's what that. What's America all about? Oh, protecting a lunatic from himself. Great. Yeah. What a vision for the future.

How's it going? Are you all right? We got a big show today. I'm not going to ramble on too much. I thought I'd just give a chipper little nudge to stay active. And anybody who thinks that it's a liberal or conservative issue, health care, you're out of your mind. You think this is some sort of wrestling show that ends in the apocalypse.

Yeah. The world's greatest heel. The last great heel. Yeah. I can't. Now, like I see, like right there, you felt that pause? Fell right down the ditch. Right down the rabbit hole of horrendous darkness.

It's always right there. It's like hovering beside you now. What's that next to you? Oh, I thought that was an invisible tunnel to hell. No, no, no, it's not. We're all going through it. All of us, the entire world being sucked through a selfish tunnel to hell. Hey, but if you're proud and excited, Godspeed.

If you're terrified and angry, speak up. Make those phone calls. Hit those streets. God damn. All right. On a lighter note, I got an email here. Subject line, you just got better without trying mark a few days ago i had a three-hour drive up north to run the san francisco marathon i had a few unlistened two episodes of

wtf on deck but i wanted to save those for the marathon and decided to try another top-rated podcast through itunes it sucked tried another it was boring tried a third the guy was being overly dramatic for the subject matter i've listened to most of your 800 plus episodes through itunes it sucked tried another it was boring tried a third the guy was being overly dramatic for the subject matter i've listened to most of your 800 plus episodes while running and they helped the miles slip past i've been growing concerned that you might hang it up soon because you're sounding a bit over it if you stop i may quit running and get fat that's on your shoulders thanks for all of your effort soren i'm not over the podcast i'm a bit over almost everything pal i'm just trying to get by like the rest of yous but no

yeah i'm not gonna let you get fat pal and i wish i could apply that to me listening to podcast thing to uh to me getting out and running i'm exercising i'm not running enough but what you know what who who cares big show today can't ramble on too long got two guests got a shorty and a longy got joe mandy coming up who i love joe mandy the very funny comedian and then david allen greer one of the funniest people alive coming up joe mandy has been on this show before and he's a very funny guy very bright guy i was happy that he came over i like talking up joe mandy has been on this show before and he's a very funny guy very bright guy i was happy that he came over i like talking to joe he has a new stand-up special called joe mandy's award-winning stand-up special that is now streaming on netflix and he stopped by here he stopped by the garage to chat a little bit this is me and the uh the sharp and funny Joe Man... low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month.

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Andy. It's no place good, Joe. I don't think so. I mean, I'm doing great. That's what I'm dealing with right now. Me too. It's a hellscape everywhere but like my immediate surroundings. Yeah, very.

But, you know, it's probably a little, the perimeter is probably bigger than just immediate surroundings. But if you are engaged and you are paying attention, you feel a little shitty about feeling okay about yourself. Yeah. But I always had that in my head, though. I've talked about that a bit on stage where there's always been part of me, no matter how good things are, which they haven't been this good for me personally ever. But there's always part of me that wants to be like, nah, but it's still kind of fucked. Right. But now it's like it is.

You know, it's not I'm not making it up. No. It's kind of fucked. No, it's super fucked. Yeah. It's like cartoonish. not making it up. No. It's kind of fucked. No, it's super fucked. Yeah. It's like cartoonish. Scary. How evil.

Yeah. So it's like, it's like, this is hack. Like if, if someone pitched some of this stuff, I mean, this is too, this is too much. But what are you, what have you been up to? You coming over on a Saturday? I assume you're writing somewhere. Yeah. I'm writing on a show called The Good Place right now on NBC.

Oh, wait. What? Who's in that? That's Kristen Bell and Ted Danson. Oh, right. Two stars, yeah. Ted Danson is a part of my daily life, which is cool.

It's the coolest. Is he a good guy? Yeah, he really is. Yeah? Yeah, it was a relief. That's the type of person you just hope when- You don't know, right? Yeah, you really don't,

but he's a person, his reputation precedes him. Right. Yeah. You really don't. But he's like, he's a person. His like reputation precedes him. Right. You just like, OK, well, we'll see. And then it's all true. It's it's the coolest. Oh, that's great. Yeah.

It's so it's so bizarrely disappointing to to identify with or know somebody your whole life on television. Yeah. And then they're just fucking monsters. I know it's a it's the it. It's a very, like, particular sadness that's hard, you know, because you don't want to, like, tell people about it. You want people to just, like, continue believing that. Well, that's the weird thing that you learn in show business is that, you know, some people are, you know, it's a degree. You know, it's a sad thing about how connected everybody is because there is an element of, like, you know, respecting somebody's work and then realizing they're an asshole.

But, you know, the party is like, no, I've got to tell everybody. No, I definitely have no trouble telling. Yeah. But now it's sort of like, oh, fuck. You've got to fight the urge to tell the world. the urge to tell the world. It's mostly like, it's like when you go home and you're hanging out with people from high school.

Right, right. Or whatever. And they're like, what's going on? So you know so and so? Yeah, then you're like, yeah, he's cool. Yeah, yeah. Right. You know, because it's like, what's the point of?

I have to be careful with it because I've been pretty diplomatic the last few years. But now that like I feel okay about myself, that's when I start to say the, I start throwing people under the bus. Right, right, right. But not in a bad way, not my friends necessarily. But you learn in show business, it's sort of like, just be nice and say, yeah, that guy's pretty good. I wish I had that in me.

I have a couple friends who can go, they'll be at a party where everyone is talking shit. And then you, like, go home and you're like, oh, that person didn't say a single thing. They laughed and nodded, but it made you nothing. Nothing. And then you're like, how do I trust that guy? I know. Yeah. I got to start talking shit about that guy.

Yeah, what's up with that dude? What's he going to say about, ugh. What is it, is this new special? Because I know you wanted me to do something for it, and I didn't. And I'm sorry. No, it's fine. No, it was. What was the angle?

What makes it different? Because I know it's not just a straight stand-up special. It is. I mean, it's an hour stand-up. It's sort of bookended with this sketch stuff that I wrote. Oh, yeah. Sort of the premise of the sketch stuff is that I'm trying to perform the perfect special. So the first part is I'm getting advice from...

Oh, okay. From peers and heroes and whatnot. Yes, exactly. And then it's the special. It's all building up to this award show called the American Humor Awards. And then when the special ends, then we actually shot the fake award show. It's a fake award show? Yeah, it's not a real thing.

I mean, it's super. We made it look like the Oscars mixed with like the Mark Twain prize. Yeah, it's really stupid. Yeah, but I reached out to you. I reached out to a couple people. And it was like the first time I've ever kind of ever felt like a yeah producer doing anything because i was just like desperately just trying to like who'd you get uh for that for that particular bit it was uh george wallace and bo burnham are the two people giving wow that's it yeah those are but that's outside the box that's

good yeah then george was man they're both they're both so funny in it yeah it was like uh george is something yeah he really is. Was he wearing his beret? Of course he was, yeah. He didn't always wear it. I don't know when that started happening. I remember him pre-beret. The main bit in the special is that I'm performing my special for the council of judges.

Oh, for the award show. So there are a few cutaways to these like very like prestigious looking judges. So like they're like taking notes, but that's it. Oh, that's interesting. So you know, you made it, you created a narrative outside of the standup. Right. But it's not, I hope, you know, from what, from my perspective, I didn't think it was distracting at all.

Well, you're a great standup and you're a great joke writer. And it's like one of those things where when I see you on conan or something i'm like this guy's so good but you know you definitely have you're a writer yeah and and how how's that struggle going i mean right now it's just sort of bipolar like i spend like six months or so writing yeah whatever and then we'll just spend the rest of the year touring. Did you get married? I did, yeah. How long ago was that?

A couple years ago. Really? Yeah. I haven't talked to you that long in any way. How's the marriage? Good. Do you have a kid? No kid.

I mean, we have two dogs we treat like children. Sure. Yeah. And what does she do? Is she in show business? She is not. She works for the ASPCA. Oh, yeah? Yeah. And what does she do? Is she in show business? She is not. She works for the ASPCA. Oh, yeah?

Yeah. Does she do like hands-on stuff? Sometimes. She mostly does like marketing and- For ASPCA? Yeah. And like copywriting. And what do they do exactly?

I mean, they have a lot of, it seems like they have shelters in New York. Yeah. But they also have, they fund these task forces to break up like dog fighting rings and cock fighting rings. Oh, really? Like, yeah, like, you know, those stories where you hear about like hoarders who have like 12 cats. Or like horses that are just, you know just you know skeletons yeah the ones where they find the cats in the garbage yeah i mean you know just like the the bones right yeah they're like pancakes yeah the lady's like i wondered what right i mean that's sort of like it's mostly like when they

it's like usually bigger cases yeah where like they have to bring in like they essentially have like a SWAT team on call to like for like people with 50 cats yeah it's nuts yeah oh my god I don't know I don't really she's also like uh she gets these phone calls that are like confidential and then she can't tell me but she'll be like uh secret yeah something about is about to happen I'm yeah Yeah. And does it break in the news? Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy.

There's some shit going down. There was a crazy thing a couple, like, last year where she had to go to North Carolina for a week because there were so many animals at this place that they raided that they had to, like, essentially rent out an airport hangar. And just, like, there was, like, hundreds of animals. Of all different kinds? Yeah, until they could, like, figure out where to put them all just oh my god hands on deck people flying in from all over the country to like aspca forces yeah yeah she was like cleaning out cat got a suburban zoo issue

yeah basically yeah it's crazy there's a place in north carolina where they have tigers the tiger rescue oh really yeah it's pretty wild crazy i went crazy. I went to a, we went to a ostrich farm in Solvang recently. In Solvang? Yeah. Wow. Just a visit? We were there for a wedding, but then, you know, we had a day to kill in Solvang. It's like seeing dinosaurs.

It really is. It's like the lamest Jurassic Park, but they, they are freaky and they just eat food out of your hands. They're giant birds. They're giant birds and they run in a very funny fashion. They're real dinosaurs. They are, yeah. It's wild. Do they farm them up there?

I mean, I don't really know. What else are you going to use it for? What would you have an ostrich farm for? People eat ostrich meat. They were selling ostrich jerky, but they also had ostrich eggs signed by Khloe Kardashian that was like in a glass case. Oh, that's important.

It is. Yeah. Now, what's going on with the Twitter feed? What were you doing? You were retweeting. You made a career out of retweeting things. Yeah. What was the angle on that again?

Corporate retweets? I did that for a while. What was it, was it though them doing i i used to have fun on um like 9-11 like 9-11 corporate tweets oh yeah it was fun yeah um uh gun gun manufacturers often tweet funny stuff on holidays uh-huh uh Now I'm just, like, I'm so deep into, like, Trump. Yeah. Like, idiot reverse that I, like, I feel filthy. Like, I have. I've pulled out totally.

Oh, I'm fully in. I can't. I can't. Do you fight with Nazis? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, like, it's very strange to just become completely desensitized to like seeing your face

being shoved into a oven an oven by a cartoon frog or whatever so yeah okay you are desensitized totally one thousand i didn't it does nothing yeah it was your point where it did i mean it's it's it's when you it's dave chapelle's uh monologue when he hosted snl yeah it's, Dave Chappelle's monologue when he hosted SNL, it was just like, we have an internet troll as president. Like, that's what it is. And so, like, it's just trolling. Like, I don't, like, it doesn't really affect me. If it were, I don't know, if it were something else,

maybe it would affect me, but I'm sort of desensitized to that. Do you find that, well, let me ask you you this because what happened with me and twitter was that you know once he took office i was like i'm done i'm done feeding this i don't want to fight it it is taxing to me yeah i'm not desensitized yeah it's not so much i take it personally but it's sort of like it takes up energy it causes me aggravation because even if I'm being desensitized towards you know horror is one thing but engaging in emotional fighting like I'm the idea that you're going to win no yeah I mean like when I you say like am I fighting with Nazis not really like I'm I don't really respond to people that often right it, yeah, right. It's mostly like, I'm, I.

You'll tweet something out and you'll just see it come back. I'll make fun of something like Donald Trump Jr. says. Or whatever. Right. Seb Gorka. Right. Or any of those people. Yeah.

I haven't heard his name in a while. But, yeah, I just, I was like, I'm not feeding this anymore. I feel you. I mean, like, I. I feel better, dude. I have more time. That's great. It's not, you know, I don't, I'm not great sitting with myself, but it's nice to know

that that's still operative. I know. I mean, it's super unhealthy. It really is. And I'm like, I just vacillate between, like, just the darkest part of, like, Trump Twitter and then, like, to get relief, I will then just read like NBA trade rumors and that's like what makes me happy it's like one of the few things in the world so it's just like it's either basketball that makes me happy or just like I'm just like going back and forth

but in the big picture do you feel as an intelligent person who fights a good fight do you feel that that Twitter is doing anything good no I. I mean, well, the thing is, and not that it's like a noble fight because it's not stupid, but there is something to the fact that this is the medium that the president has chosen to be his- His lifeline to his people. Right. So you got to operate, you got to be dragged down to his level. Sort of. That's a unique thing. It's like we're all being dragged down to the president it's crazy yeah um but i you know there are there are i actually just recently i paid some website like 12 to just delete all my

old tweets from like anything older than like two years or something yeah they do that yeah i don't know how but it's just like i was just like i don't need a like permanent i don't need like some like whatever i was yelling at 10 years or 2010 to like haunt me later right so yeah just well i think that it's interesting because sometimes i'll look at twitter i don't like occasionally i'll answer questions but i primarily use it't like, and occasionally I'll answer questions, but I primarily use it for promo now. And like, I'll answer questions sometimes if I'm, but I used to be locked into it. Like, you know, you'd spend hours there, you know, and now I do think that it does good because sometimes I get, I learn things first there. Like, cause you're not, I'm not tapped into every news site. Right. And sometimes, sometimes someone will tweet something like, oh, fuck. Right.

That happened? Yeah. And also I think that organizing, I think sometimes it's proactive and it helps. And it seems to me that the hashtag President Bannon actually got up Trump's ass. It seemed like it. More the magazine cover. Oh, that was it? That was it.

Yeah, yeah. I think that's how you get in. That's how you, in that's how you something that gets ratings yeah it's like it's literally like whoever's on the cover of time magazine that'll do it yeah it's crazy he's a fucking child yeah yeah there's some big problems dude yeah i i i really don't know you know there's never a dull moment i've never like i've never felt this like embarrassed before you know like even when like i know bush was president i didn't feel like i could like i would i could travel

abroad and you know not feel like embarrassed yeah with bush you were sort of like i i didn't i didn't do that i don't know yeah right but this guy it's sort of like oh my god yeah my favorite thing is to talk to people about, like, you hate Trump. Everyone hates Trump in my world. Yeah. But it's like, I love finding out who's, like, the second person, you know? Because some days for me it's Jared Kushner. Like, I obsess over Jared Kushner.

He makes me crazy. And then sometimes it's, you know, Jeff Sessions or whoever. But it's like, it's Bannon's ears. Yeah, you're a Bannon guy. I'm a Bannon guy. You know, and like, you know, I'm a Bannon guy. You know, and he was like, you know, I was a Bannon Stephen Miller guy, but I don't know. He seemed, Stephen Miller seems to have found his way, you know, up Jared's ass.

Sure. Somehow. Sure. This weird alignment between, you know, white supremacists and, and, and grandchildren of Holocaust survivors. Orthodox Jews. Yeah. It's unbelievable. I don't know what's happening at that level. But, all right, so when's the special on? July 25th. Okay. Yeah. And your dogs are good?

Dogs are great. Wife is good? Yeah. You're happy with the special? I think so. Well, do you get that weird thing where you're like, but I'm a stand-up, not a writer? Yes.

I mean, I think it's pretty clear that I'm working through those issues in the special itself. Good. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. It's like totally. Yeah. I mean, the money's good with writing. You're in a good environment.

You like the show you're on. You don't pitch jokes. But in your heart, you're a stand-up. Yes yes and then there are times where like i'll be on the road for three weeks yeah and i'm alone ordering like domino's pizza and some awful place it's like i should like go i should be at my job what am i doing is this the quality of life i'm looking forward to right i don't know so i mean i'm still trying to figure out like the right balance i definitely feel like I'm sort of half of both or whatever.

Yeah, but you know in your heart and your mind that no matter how bad it's going to get over there at the office, I got WGA health insurance. I got a pretty steady paycheck as long as the show's on the air. That shit makes a difference. Yeah, it does.

Totally. Alright, well, it's good talking to you, Joe. Good talking to you. the show's on the air right that shit makes a difference yeah it does totally yeah all right well it's good talking to you joe good talking to you all right as i mentioned joe mandy that was joe mandy his new stand-up special called joe mandy's award-winning stand-up special is now streaming on netflix go enjoy that david alan grier wow dag he's been around for a long time and he's always been fucking funny always been funny from living color to the movies to being on broadway to being on the radio to the carmichael show to i mean he just yeah he's been around a long time too man and we don't really know each other we might have met i think we met once but i was excited to talk to him he has a new show on gsn called snap decisions it premieres monday august 7th the series finale of the car

michael show airs august 9th on nbc i do want to make clear that when i talked to him i did not know that the show had been canceled and he he told me after. I don't know. But I was sad to hear that. I liked it. But we talked about everything. There's a lot of stuff. He had quite a life and he wanted to be an actor. And he's a great actor, but he's also one of the funniest guys around. This is me and David Alan Greer talking here in the garage you know if trump wanted to play by the same rules as obama what are the rules we get final cut they don't get to vet questions they you know like i mean he's pretty good like that i'm not sure what i would do with him or what point it would serve because i just think you'd have to just turn the thing on and just

i know but what are you gonna get you know what you know what trump just him i know but he gives that all the time and it's all bullshit and you know it's like you know what if i i can get to the core of it i mean i grew up with a narcissistic dad i know what's's in there. I know what's at the core of that personality. A whole lot of fuck you. My dad was a psychiatrist. Oh, really? Yeah. So what do you make of it?

What do you make of your dad being a psychiatrist? Well, he just passed. Well, he didn't just pass. He passed away about a year ago. And what do I make of it? He my he never got psychiatric on me you know because that's that that you know of well yeah okay but uh except for one time uh-huh but it's not because i think the perception is uh the routine comeback is your father. Well, did he analyze you? No. Day to day was not, I think you're, let's use our words. Oh, right, right.

No, he was just like, sit down, shut up, you know, like a normal parent. Except for one time when I was like, you know, feeling myself. I said, Dad, what's the definition of insanity? And he just looked at me and smirked. He goes, it means nothing. It is a legal definition. Like, you idiot. Shut up. Yeah, what are you talking about? Get the car i'll pick you up and i was like oh words are weapons

i i think that the the generally it seems to me that the the common thing about being the kid of a psychiatrist is uh is that they're always a little weird well yeah i married the child of a psychiatrist well Well, then. But she didn't strike me as weird, but then I knew some other kids, and they seemed weird, but I don't know why that would be. Maybe that's something we project onto people.

Your dad's a shrink. You're weird. It was always projected on me. It was. Yeah, yeah. But he passed away. My father died, and we just got these papers,

all this stuff, this writing that he did a long time ago about his life. It was kind of like, I don't know what it was. Unpublished? No, yeah, yeah, absolutely. They were just private musings. He had had a series of questions. Clearly, this was an elongated biography.

My father also was an author, so I don't know at what time or whatever, but he would always use any kind of method to write. But the point being is as an African-American going to med school and desiring to become a psychiatrist at that time, I think there were one or two other black students in med school at Michigan. And so that's what was incredible and you know studying at the manager clinic and this is at the manager clinic that's a big one yeah yeah yeah and it was so it's a completely unique experience he's writing about they had to be one of two or three african-americans absolutely so that must have been what so it talks about his challenges maybe he he he he talks about right but more it was, you know, by rote, but there was some insight, meaning as a young student, you know, or as a resident faced with probably 99.9% Caucasian men. Right.

Just how do you get ahead? And I know my father told me, he said he said well I really didn't have a choice if you wanted to be your own boss and You were a person of color you had to be a doctor lawyer dentist or else you're working for a Someone who's white who will subjugate you or a shop owner of some kind? Yes, exactly. You had to go into business for yourself. And so that was the whole aim so so it wasn't necessarily a passion to uh to you think that it was well it must have been no my father

psychiatry that's not like when you're thinking about i want to go into business i didn't go into it i wasn't smart enough that's it that seems like a lot to put in you know you got to put in the medical school the internship the residency the residency, all of it. In 1940 something. That's crazy. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, what were you thinking? And so, my dad is and was the smartest person I ever knew.

I mean, I think he went to college when he was like 16. And, you know, he's brilliant. Oh, yeah. He's really smart. So, how much of this writing is there? Well, I found two copies. My brother and I, I think my father's widow. Just two of you?

Yeah. No, my sister. I'm the youngest. Yeah. But we found these papers. They were given to us from his widow who's cleaning out stuff. You guys might want to. Yeah.

Two different copies of the same thing. Most of it is family history. two different copies of the same thing. Most of it is family history. You know, my, like, my grandmother was born in 1900 and I remember, you know, a ritual when I was with my grandmother,

when I was very little, we'd sleep, you know, do sleepover and I'd see grandmother tell me about when you were a little girl. And she would always start with these sweet stories and it was like, and then that boy was lynched and they cut his tongue out and hung him by his penis. Anyway, who wants a cookie?

You know, I'm like, oh. But, you know, as a kid, I just was fascinated. It was like hearing about the Wild West. Yeah, absolutely. So as I got older, then I realized this is not just an adventure.

This is reality. Exactly. It's racist and hate-filled. You know, as a child, it's just the adventure. Like when the stagecoach was raided by the Indians. That's what it sounded like. Well, you can't connect it to reality until you put things into context. It's just a horrible story.

Oh, yeah. So it sounds like your dad intended to publish this thing if there were two copies of it. It ain't getting published now. Don't even, I know you're already. So this is a painting that you found on the back of a masterpiece. No, but it does, you know, I have a daughter. Why can't you publish? You could publish it.

Does he have a following? What was, he wrote a book. He was 89. Yeah, he had a big following in 68. Yeah, 1968. Oh, yeah. What was he wrote a book? He was 89. Yeah. He had a big following in 68. Yeah. In 1968. Oh, yeah. My father was the radical.

You know, he and my mom, they got a divorce. He left. He moved out to San Francisco. Right. The summer before the summer of love. Right. So he was on the cusp of the hypnosis. So that was just the summer of racial bullshit.

Yes. Before the summer of love, it was just like 10 years of horrible racial yes well before the summer of well it was just like 10 years of horrible racial tension well we had driven out i remember one yeah uh summer vacation my brother just reminded me of this like we're kids in detroit we went to disneyland i was like nine years old we drove across country and every stop you know once we got to amarillo texas that was the first stop you know my my father come back to the car Cuz they don't like Negroes. So let's keep up with boys stay in the car, please Jeffrey put your put your skateboard down. Let's just listen with our ears

But as kids, yeah, I remember my brother and I we go to these motels or white kids in the pool We jump in the pool. They ran out. No, and I'm like, let's go chase him My brother was like make your motherfucking ass in the car they hate you you big head you know you punch me but to me it was like no man let's go make them play with us you still didn't get it no to this day i do not i'm telling you the truth right danny um danny the bride i'm at the airport early in the morning we i see him you know and i just go over there and introduce myself. We're on the same flight, whatever. Two days later, I get an offer to do this film. And I type to my email, my agent.

I'm like, that is so crazy because, you know, Danny and I were on the same flight. And I introduce myself and I get this offer. The universe is bananas. And there was a silence. And then it's like yeah he said that he met you then he gave you the offer I said well yeah but what's the connection though there is none it's just Providence you know I still didn't get it I still didn't that's why you got the offer that's great you live in a magical world if you're lucky everything is magic to you but then there was like maybe i shouldn't

verbalize i should just internalize so they don't realize what kind of way but i'm kind of interested in the idea so your dad moves to san francisco oh yeah okay so i'm gonna bounce around in 1968 well no here's what it went down you know my parents i remember there was a family meeting and my mom and dad's like you know know, your father and I are having problems. And we want you to know this was very psychiatric. When I think back, we want you kids progressive. It's not your fault. Right.

It is our issue that we're going to work through. Right. And we're not getting a divorce. It was like, that's the word. Like, what is a divorce? These are the words I learned as a child. What is assassination? How is assassination different than murder?

Then I was told, you know, when Kennedy and all that. So divorce, what is divorce? Right. And they told us and then they, anyway, we told all our friends we're supposed to move to California. We packed up. Yeah. My father goes ahead. And that was it.

You know, he writes my mom a letter. By the way, you're not joining us. so that's how it went down yeah very classic 60s yeah divorce yeah and uh so he got a waterbed uh a dashiki you know he was he was come on it was like uh midlife crisis it's the 60s some african art and posters not african art no but he did like you know the peripheral black panther stuff you know he had one of these afro rakes oh yeah oh yeah my father taking us to the barbershop yeah cut these boys hair in an afro you are not colored you black you know i was like okay he made the Oh, yeah, so when Obama was like elected my father was like Fuck him. He's not black enough. He should be telling all these white folks kiss my ass. Yeah, you know, yeah

I would have helped out exactly like yeah daddy could do that, but he's probably not gonna be president But so did did you so you went back and forth from Detroit to San Francisco as a kid? Well, we went to visit my dad. We would see him once a year. Oh, absolutely. Okay. Yeah, it was absolutely. But I remember going to visit him.

So you've got to imagine this. It was 68 in San Francisco. A circus. Oh, my God. Yeah, we get off the plane, and my father goes, I'm going to take you to People's Park. And we're like, you know, you got to hear this. This is our political education.

We're like, what kind of park is this? You know, there's a fence around it, and there are no toys. Where are the swings? Yeah, you know, my father's like, the toys are in your mind. Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah. Then he takes us to the Black Panther headquarters, we see the hippies and we're just like. He took you to Oakland?

Yes. That was a tourist spot. For your dad. Yes. There's the Panthers. We got there the day that Bobby Hutton, who was a 16 year old Black Panther, was murdered by the police. It was his funeral. So, and we were like, now you're taking us to a funeral?

What the fuck is this? You know, where is Disneyland? Yeah. So that was, that was his funeral. And we were like, now you're taking us to a funeral? What the fuck is this? Where is Disneyland? Yeah. So that was my life. And then going back to Detroit, my dad had this huge book. What book was it? It was called Black Rage. Was that his term?

Did he coin that term? You have to Google it before I say yes. I don't want to put my foot in it. But it became, whatever it was, it became popularized by this book. This book was a huge bestseller. What was it about? It was the black rage defense, meaning you, Mark, and your forefathers have subjugated and oppressed me so much that if I stab the fuck out of you right now, that's because of my inherent built-in black rage. Well, you had family in Eastern Europe?

Dumb man. I see what you're trying to do. No, but I mean, that's part of it. My people were helping you. Exactly. No, I have a Jewish friend. She goes, so what? My great grandmother was raped by the Cossacks.

We all have them across the board. We tried to make up for it. We were down there. We got you the voting thing. We were down there. We got you the voting thing. We were down there. No, but I mean, so you have to read it. Yeah.

Because one of the things my father did. Did you read it? Of course. One of the things my father did for the rest of his life is like, you know, he hated when that book

was used as a legal defense. Yes. He hated like professional psychiatrists, you know, DeAndre of the Seven Marks Head book was used as a legal defense. He hated professional psychiatrists. DeAndre severed Mark's head because he felt oppressed by his white presence. He didn't like all that stuff.

So he saw it more as an academic thing as opposed to a practical defense for any crime a black person might commit? That's one aspect. But he also didn't like people moving when he talked. So, he put them all together. Literally.

Was he a clinical psychiatrist? Yes. So, he had an office. People would come over. Yes, yes, yes. But he had an office. And it was very 60s because I remember going down to visit him. In Detroit?

Yes. There was a downtown plaza that was very hip. It was called Lafayette Park. And when he moved there he had another office in downtown detroit like the book building which was just you know right yeah but he moved to this new office had the double door the couch it looked like fucking james bond movie and you know the white chick was the secretary oh hello david i was like yeah man this is it this is how you live hell yeah so for buick 225 is that that detroit that you grew up in is it gone i mean like what part of like i know i you i hear things i don't want to judge i know that there's some areas of detroit

that are coming back i've performed outside of detroit but but the the the the news out now is that you know detroit sort of decimated. All right, listen. I'm talking pre-riot, early 60s Detroit. You know, in our minds- Industrial, like powerhouse. Fuck yeah, man. It was like cars before the Japanese and Europeans.

We were king of the world. Glorious city. Fuck yeah. It was like the fifth largest city in the world yeah and in america rather yeah and we thought i live in a cosmopolitan area you went to private schools and yeah very hip and cool and this is the life you know so you what do you went to a private school for a while for a while like when we were very young i just got these pictures from like kindergarten first to second grade and it's me and a sea of racists no no sea of like white kids you know and there's like the one jacket

were you wearing a little jacket suit and tie and i had this bolo like uh-huh it was really little kid stuff so that's it like see that's an interesting kind of upbringing in terms of like, you know, because I people make assumptions that there was a very healthy black middle class in Detroit when you were growing up. Yeah, that's that's it. Well, we'll think about this. You know, the car companies when they were thriving. Yeah, that was a very comfortable middle class existence that people could count on. Right. From high school until retirement

Yeah, so that was guaranteed. These were post-war union jobs. Yeah African Americans, I mean that's why all these black people were in Chicago Detroit I mean, that's what attracted them initially. Yeah is these jobs? I think my grandmother's Brothers, so my grand uncles you know one comes then the whole family comes they have where they from originally Mississippi by way of Alabama I don't forget about it if you're saying in the 30s yeah let's get the fuck out oh hell yeah this is an actual life where you won't be oppressed and beaten and killed and lunch so that's the scenario uh and very progressive i mean we went to as a

kid you know my father's friends we all went to this quote progressive really progressive school at that time so that was the first kind of school i remember the school bus and all that oh yeah like what progressive had not like a montessori school, but just an integrated, tolerant, kind of like this is the way democracy works. Oh, absolutely. I remember being brought into the auditorium and watching the assassination coverage of John F. Kennedy. You know, I think I was in first or second grade, a 19-inch black and white television. You do remember that? Oh, absolutely. second grade a 19 inch black and white television you do you do remember that oh absolutely i remember our class we wrote sympathy letters to jackie yeah yeah of course they were graded

come on i'm not kidding you for years they sent them out with a b minus on them when david said i'm sorry that's a compound word i'm there was no yeah and it was marked up but i lost the letter i wish i could find it because it was so that's like because you're a little older than me like i'm 53 i'm 47 oh i'm sorry i missed i must have misread 47 you look great well thank you i just died my mustache yes i'm 61 i'm 61 61 so you you do have memory like i was born the year that he got shot, two months before he was shot. I don't have any memories. I have memories of Watergate and Vietnam War, looking at the TV.

Watergate was boring to me after, like, everyone got shot. It's just guys sitting at microphones, you know what I mean? For hours. Right, right. But the Vietnam War, hell, I remember that on TV. Like, it was terrifying. I just remember guys in the jungle, you know? Like, just bad news.

Well, first of all, there was a kid, one of my best friends around the block. Yeah his cousin teenage cousin went to Vietnam So I'd never heard a word like Vietnam. It was like Klingon. Yeah, you know what I mean? I was like, what is a Vietnam? Where is it? And he said, you know, it's in Asia, yeah, he his cousin fought in spider holes. And immediately, I'm like, they have spider holes big enough for people to crawl into in a place called Vietnam? I don't want to be there. Is that what they're fighting? Yeah.

So that was my introduction to it. But I remember watching. You've progressed to that one, haven't you? Not much. Fake news. I'm all for it. Come on. Isn't that what we do every night yeah you have been magic way yes yes of course there's no connection yeah Mark come on but I remember watching the

draft yeah lottery right and my brother's number was 18 I think like he should have been on the first bus and he got out of it he's that much older than you he's four years old uh-huh so uh and it was like the end of the war like 70 71 yeah yeah right that's bad then because then they're just shoveling people to die yeah there was you know like if you got there that year this is sort of like this is just about me if you want me to go someplace i don't want to go i'm gonna shoot you oh yeah yeah yeah well so you know i'm talking about this because for years I thought my dad was so brilliant.

He got my brother off and wasn't until I was grown. My dad goes, he had nothing to do with it. You know, my brother, like, you know, didn't bathe for like two weeks, you know, and just took a bunch of speed and walked in there talking crazy. And they're like, you, you sir may remain home. We're not going. Exactly. We don't need you.

And we don't know what you're talking about. Exactly. It seems like you understand it. There's no connection, sir. So where did you go to, like how did it progress for you? So when you were a kid, you grew up in a nice life, well-educated good folks beautiful house same what was what'd your mom do she was just well i don't want to say just she was as a young child

until my father left you know uh she was a housewife right and then once the the divorce you know he left and then she went back to teaching which she always hated which i it there's a perverse comedy in there now but she was just the she hated it but she had to do it yeah she was like a kindergarten teacher and you know so and she went back to that yeah hating kids well i feel bad but i mean we were like you know when you're kids you're like dude come on man i need hot wheels let's go yeah yeah i want to hear about you know fulfillment no you're just like i am're like, dude, come on, man. I need Hot Wheels. Let's go. You don't want to hear about fulfillment. No. You're just like, what's more important than me?

Well, what were you aspiring to as a kid? Well, you're in a magic bubble. We've established that. I dare you, sir. What compelled you towards the arts? You know what I used to do when I was a little kid? The back of Boy's Life. Oh, my God. I do when I was a little kid? Yeah. Back of Boy's Life or, you know. Oh, my God.

I haven't heard about that magazine in a while. Or like they had the. Boy's Life. Yeah. Can you draw this fawn? Sure. And I would do that. Right.

And I would do that. Right. There was. Yeah. Oh, you. And I would. I would. They'd be like, sir, you have.

You're brilliant. Those animals with the human eyes. Yeah. Like sort of like compassionate eyes. There was a squirrel or something. Right. A fa you drew it exactly sent it in and uh that was before i found out it was kind of a ripoff but i mean i just remember like i wanted to be a painter yeah an artist or biology you know painter or biology sure animals i memorize every amphibian oh yeah toad and you still remember them yeah i know it's not

in michigan because they used to put out these regional yeah yeah i know that we don't have bullfrogs we have green frogs oh good good which was uh uh so sadness sure but in in the event that someone goes look at that bullfrog you're like green over uh-uh and then you have an argument maybe get hit i would argue you down sure sure because for um what was it show and tell uh-huh i would get up there with this book and just lecture the class on why we don't have pacific spotted sure lake turtles yeah in michigan because you like you like the research of it right like i. Right? Like, I saw some map of rats yesterday. You know, you get the Norway rat.

Yes. And then you get tree rats. First of all, tree rats. Dude, no. I think they are called tree rats. They are. That's what freaked me out. They're here.

Yes! That's that metal band around the palm trees. I was like, is that for the homeless children so they don't climb up for a coconut? Yeah, exactly. They want to date. They have nests of rats in trees. No, thank you. Apparently, that's the ones we got here.

No, thank you. Yeah. So you didn't go into biology. You didn't go into painting. It was too hard. Biology is required. Your dad probably, well, he probably had something to say about biology. He had to do all that shit. Well, I remember he goes, so, you know,

he left. He was out there, and so I was like, you know. It was college time. So was he talking like, hey, man? No, he was like, I assume that you had the profunderance of thoughts and feelings. I mean, that's how he talked to me, and I'd be like,

what? He's like, you know very well what my musings mean. I'm like, musings? What the fuck? So he sent me like this application for University of California, Berkeley's chemistry department. And I'm like, are you insane?

Do you know I've been doing acid for the last four years? I can't do this. You know, so I just went on to Michigan. You were an acid guy oh yeah oh yeah mescaline thc more than i cared in high school yeah started about 15 40 window pane really so that was the good shit so yeah i've never been that high ever in my life. What was that like? So what year was that? 70? I'm going to say 71. Something like that.

So it had trickled into the mainstream, like as it was around. Yes. Yeah. I mean, we got it. Same thing as like, give Billy your $5. Okay. Yeah. And you went out there, huh?

I did, man. And it was, I'll put it like this. It was like, it took me 12 hours to realize I was in a room with no ceiling that was on fire yeah so that's how high it was was was it really on fire that was my mom's living room and my mom followed me around this is you're not supposed to trip with your mom exactly well that was never the plan my friends dropped me off on the front lawn and my mom found me at like three in the morning playing with the dog like see there's no connection oh my god you know so she was worried she was a single mom sure and her son's on acid yeah talking about jimmy hendrix or whatever you know oh but you got to like yeah it's so nice to like i envy that you were cognizant and engaged in the world when that shit was happening. Like, in 68, 72, I was nine.

So I'd see pictures. I saw Mad Magazine. But, like, you were, like, a few years older. So you're like, I got the record, man. Well, my brother actually saw Hendrix. I never saw him. But there's a very. That's right.

You got the older brother with the shit. There's a story that needs to be told. I've never actually... I wrote it down because I actually did research and stuff to go back and ask. But this time that my brother told me that, you know, Hendrix had come to Detroit and I must have just turned 13. And he went. He wouldn't take me. Yeah.

And he met Hendrix. Come. Yeah. Yeah. And Hendrix, they went to his dressing room and he brought him on stage. This was a myth in my family. And for years, I just thought my brother told me this to rub it in, you know, and I never made it up. Yeah. I always thought I never really believed him. And, uh, just a couple of years ago, he told me how he got this email from his friend, Michael, who had gone with him that night, and he read me the email, and I'm in the car, and my eyes well up, because it was like,

I remember all the cool stuff we did. It's so great to connect with you. Remember that night with Hendrix, and how he talked to us, and it was all you, man. Yeah, and I'm sitting there going, oh, my God. My brother was a hobbit like really like he

met the dwarf king yeah and so I just was like oh my god I never believed it I still get goosebumps and so it was just a bonding thing like oh my gosh he wasn't lying oh my where's your brother at he's living in daily city yeah and then daily said he moved to lying oh my where's your brother at he's living in daily city yeah and daily said he moved to it with my dad by your dad yeah and he never came back i mean he just stayed in the bay area and what's he do uh he is retired he took care of my mom until the very end she lived 95 and a half wow and he did the dirty work oh Oh, he did. Oh, my God. F. Daly. Yeah, yeah. You know, I was like, I can take it, man.

But I'm busy. You know, I'm doing a lot of things, man. Ding-a-lings. I got Thursday to Sunday. So, you know. So, I send him money and stuff. Yeah. He is going to heaven.

I mean, trust me. Yeah. So, he's chilling. I mean, he's chilling. That's nice. And your sister's still around? She's living still in Detroit. Oh, yeah.

And I'm the youngest. And you're all close. I'm closer to my brother. Yeah. But if you have brothers and sisters, it goes weird. There was a point when I was- It goes in and out. Exactly.

I was closer to my sister when she moved near me when I was in New York, like in 75. I think that has something to do with the fact that like me and my brother are close but like when it gets too close and and and they they're you know you know them inside and out they know you inside and out and if they're fucking up and they don't want to cop to it then it gets a little trippy right you're like you know what's going on with you i'm all right yeah it's like dude get the yeah my brother goes he goes you know my nephew's he's 21 or whatever he's like i dude, get the... One time my brother goes, he goes, you know, my nephew's 21 or whatever. He's like, I mean, you know, he's acting crazy.

And I'm like, what? Like what? Give me an example, man. You know, talk to me. No, I mean, he's like, I'm crazy. You know, he's saying like I'm crazy, but it's not me. I know it's him.

I'm like, well, get what? What does the surgeon say? I was saying, you know, he's 19, 20, whatever. We can sit, watch porn together. I was like, time out. Time out. Time out. See, that's inappropriate. Why? whatever. We can sit, watch porn together. I was like, time out. Time out. Time out. See, that's inappropriate.

Why? We're both adults. And I'm like, I never want to watch porn with my dad. And he's like, okay. Like, I guess you're crazy. I'm like, yeah, dude. So, you know, there's those things where sometimes you have to drop the hammer. Yeah. So, what led, there's those things where sometimes you have to drop the hammer. Yeah.

So what led you to the acting, man? How did that happen? Well, you know, I dropped out of school. I went to Michigan. Michigan State? No, University. Come on, man. University of Michigan.

That's a good one, right? That's the good one. Yeah. Not a good one. Yeah. In Michigan, that's the school. So I went there dropped out my freshman year i always played really shitty guitar oh yeah always yeah tons

of songs really bad still play i do yeah i do badly i mean now i have all the guitars of my dreams like every other i try not to get i get i try to get them for free and i don't go crazy i did spend some money on some amps yeah i've done all that yeah got a little money like i'm buying them all right i'd like the marshall yeah of course i never i never did you buy a hendrick strat no because i always thought that was sacral oh yeah i can't play like hendrix right and i mean so what's your guitar right now i'm into les pauls and yeah me too very late me too me to gibson very late to the game. Me too. To Gibson's, late. I was always a Fender guy.

And now I got a couple of Gibsons and I'm like, holy shit, these are magic. Yeah. They really are. I mean, that guitar can do everything. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Which Les Paul you got? I have a, well, what happened was, you know, one of my first guitars was like a 73 Les

Paul Deluxe. Yeah, the gold top? No, it was a cherry red. You could buy it for like $300. Yeah. You know, and I customized it and all this. It was stolen, like every guitar ever. Yeah.

I lend mine and then they disappear. Like, I know who had them and where they went. No. But then you can't get them back. No. It usually went like, David, David, did Tommy's mom tell you to call me? Yeah, mom, what's going on? All right, I just don't want you to be upset.

Mom, what's going on? Son, sit down. And I was like, mom, what happened? Well, I came home from school and I asked you to put the dishes in the sink. I was like, mom, what? She goes, there's been a break-in. I was like, oh, my God. Mom, go in my a break in. I was like, oh my God, mom, go in my closet and look. Well, I have to put the groceries down.

You know, she's there and I'll call you back. There's no guitar. Yeah. So the guitar was stolen. Uh-huh. She gave me money. Yeah. I bought another one.

That's when I bought the Les Paul. Yeah. Yeah. So I wanted to replace that guitar. Right. Nostalgia. And I started looking around and playing. And I also had a big theft here in California.

I had a bunch of very valuable vintage guitars that were stolen. Yeah. And I just was done. I'm done with old, crusty, vintage. I just want something that sounds good and I can replace. Sure. Yeah, I never got into that. I got some amps that are kind of classic, but I won't do that. good and I can replace. Sure. Yeah, I never got into that. Like, I got some amps that are kind of classic, but I won't do the, I can't collect it.

I got a lot of guitars, but I try to talk them out of the guys. Like, hey, I'll talk about them on the thing. I'll play them on the show. I'll play them on the show. You give me, and I'll do the thing. And it takes a couple years, and eventually they relent, and they give me. Motorcycles, I did that with but the guitars I just you know most of my life

trading albums selling albums like in the 70s I'm still doing that well that was my currency I mean when I was in college I lived above a used record shop

so whenever I was out of money I would just go and trade albums because that was instant cash the same with guitars

I always bought really great vintage guitars. When I was broke, I would sell them or do whatever. I never hocked them. I just sold them, and it was like, okay, why? You back into records? I have a core, not currently, but I got into comedy albums, like the old black comedy albums. Sure. The best, Blue Fly and Red comedy albums. Sure. The best.

Yeah. Blue Fly and Red Fox. The Party Records? Yeah. Yeah, those are great. Yeah. Yeah. So that was probably my last run.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm just back into it. I'm in the rabbit hole with the records. Hey, man. Yeah. Get it. All right, so you drop out of Michigan. Yeah, so I went to New York.

I was reading Cream Magazine. Sure. And Soho Weekly, Village Voice. And right then was the punk scene. I was like the Ramones and Patti Smith and all those. 72, 73? Yeah, 74. And I just felt like if I don't go at this moment, then I'm going to miss it. And also, I looked upon it. Of course I didn't tell my mom,

but this is my year abroad. So I just took my money and really I took the tuition money and moved to New York city, you know, the Lower East Side, 75. I lived there for a year. Oh yeah. And at that time is when I started hanging out with actors in New York and I figured this is what I can do with my life. Because I really said, look, you suck at guitar. What's the best? You know, you get an album, a bald spot, and you're fucked.

You're fucked in like nine years. You're a pot belly. You know, do acting. You can get old doing it. Really? You thought that you were thinking the long term? Yeah, because I was already jaded. I mean, I was already, you know, by the 70s, all those groups, I'd seen everybody and Led Zeppelin, all that stuff.

Yeah, but on some level, it's sort of like what you said about your old man and about, like, you know, getting into a business. Yes, yes. That you could call your own. But you at least acknowledged your talent to some degree. I didn't know. I didn't know if I had talent yet. So you're hanging out with actors and what do you how do you proceed um here's what happened i'm gonna tell you this so i worked at the haagen-dazs

ice cream store it was on 86th street like the original one or something no but back at that time in the 70s haagen-dazs yes yeah haagen-dazs you could only there were only two stores in the world yeah you could this guy who owned these two stores that you could walk in and get a cone. Back then, Haagen-Dazs ice cream was like exotic. Yeah, sure. And people would line up and you would scoop until you had carpal tunnel. So that's what I was doing. A guy comes in and I was just tired.

I was tired. It was the end of the night. And he asked me something. I got up on the counter and I did this whole routine. And I jumped tired. I was tired. It was the end of the night and he asked me something I got up on the counter and I did this whole routine and I jumped on the guy was like I'm gonna tell you something You are an actor and you are wasting your life now. You don't know who I am. Mm-hmm, you know, I'm not some pervert Yeah, I'm gonna give you this card. This is an agent. You need to go and call this person and It's your life, but this is what i feel you were destined

to do this really happened yeah so i said okay and that's what started it that's what started it you called the guy yes i went to this agent and they were legitimate and they were saying like look you really need some training i mean you got to get into scene study and so then i applied to the neighborhood playhouse uh-huh sanford Playhouse. Sanford Meisner. Sanford Meisner, right. Sat there and interviewed me. But at the time, I was like, yeah, some old white guy. He talked weird.

Whatever. Yeah. And he interviewed me. We talked for over an hour. And he said, you know what? I like you a lot. I'm going to let you in. But then I had to raise the money to go there.

My mother would never pay for it. So that led me to go back to Michigan, start acting there, and then move back to New York. I mean, it just seemed like the logical thing. You went back to school? Yes. And I said, because then I can, you know, I knew that I would have the support of my family. Right.

As long as you were in college and they could think, like, he won't stick with this. Yes. That was it. Because I never majored in acting. I majored in journalism. She's like well okay i'm a negro reporter that's acceptable by the way david something's happened what mom we had another break-in what you're like five break-ins when i was in there like every week

another guitar oh they took everything they yes so you finished Michigan. Yeah. I finished Michigan. And at that point, you know, I was majoring in journalism. But you're acting like in the stage troupe thing. Everything. In college or outside of college? Oh, okay. We formed our own theater company. I was full on.

It was like, this is what I'm going to do. But not training, really. Just doing it. I mean, I was studying acting. That's where really I took classes. But not training, really, just doing it. Yeah, I mean, I was studying acting. That's where really I took classes. I just couldn't major, major in it. At the school. Yes.

And then I applied to Yale, got in. Holy shit. My roommate, who's Reggie Cathy, people know, because he's pretty well-known, I guess. Yeah. We both got in. Yeah. And then I went from Yale. it was like that was two years at

yale before three three years at yale so that was and that's the preeminent acting program at that time meryl streep went there like juilliard and yale was it yeah i applied to juilliard and they're like no thank you sir but yeah it was big right so it's huge man so you had to do the whole thing you had to do movement you had to do dance you had to do swordsmanship yeah fencing ballroom alexander technique we did we didn't do ballroom but we did do yeah some phonetics we had phonetics and we had it was like you know the mgm you know but you were who was in your class were there people people that went there with me around that you know rock dutton i met there yeah um kate burton jane kasmarek jane kasmarek john tuturo you know some people like that you know him yes we all were in school there yeah he like he like that's that sort of that must

have been amazing it was amazing it was amazing because there's like if you go to yale that's all you're doing because new haven's a shithole. Exactly. It was like going to school in Detroit, really. Yeah. But on the serious side, because it was only all about art. That's all we did. Right. Theater. 24-7. And you didn't have the pressure of your career. Right. Didn't have the pressure of, well, you were just in this, you know, Strindberg one act.

How is that going to affect your TVQ? No, we were just doing the work. Well, in those years that, you know, a career was not the focus. Like, they didn't, you know, there wasn't as many options. It was a long shot. And you got into it to do theater. Oh, yeah. So, I was bought in.

I was just cult. So, you were doing Strindberg. You were doing Shakespeare. All of it. Oh, yeah. So I was bought in. I was just Colt. So you were doing Schrimberg. You were doing Shakespeare. All of it. All of it. And I, in particular, for some reason,

I did like 33 productions in three years. I mean, a million and all different kind of stuff. It really changed my life. And we would do, you know,

I started doing comedy like we do. I think we did this evening of comedy, you know. At Yale? Yes, yes, in the cabaret. And I would sing. I still wrote songs.

And I would go to New York and do workshops. But at that point, those people I knew, like one of the guys, I guess, that I met while there, like Steve Forbert, who became kind of cool for a minute. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I remember him. We would all do open mics, you know, that kind of stuff. But that kind of stuff but anyway that's when you were doing singing or doing stand up no i never did stand up when i was in new york i was i was a musician right a musician and actor exactly yeah you know and then i tried comedy which was you know what nothing i lived around the block from the Catch Rising Star.

In the 70s? Well, that was actually, I moved after I graduated. I moved back to New York and that was my apartment. And that's where I met Chris Rock. I mean, a bunch of people. Late 70s. Yes. 80 actually. 81. So you graduate Yale having done everything from you know everything from you know shakespeare to david rabe to beckett yeah and then your first couple you get movies pretty quick right no i mean my first job

was to star in a musical on broadway about jackie robinson the first african-american ball player now here's how it went down like you know my my mom what was it called it was called the first yeah and on my graduation and my dad came and this was it called? It was called The First. Yeah. And on my graduation, my dad came. And this was the one time where he was speechless. Oh, yeah? That's good. Like, he's walking around. After the show?

No, this is the graduation day. Oh, okay. And he's like, yeah. He's like, how did you do this? Like, he was so disconnected. He was like, you know, so you want to join the circus? When did this start? And I was like, well, it's a passion. And he was totally blown away, you know, so you want to join the circus? When did this start? And I was like, well, it's a passion.

And he was totally blown away. And I just was like, God, please, please give me one job. I will become a male hustler. Please just let them feel I have something. And like magic. But he was impressed, though. Fuck yeah. He was speechless.

And I went, oh, my God. It was just a great feeling. When you got the job and you could tell him. and like magic but he was impressed though yeah he was speechless yeah and i went oh my god it was just a great feeling when you got the job and you could tell him well no first of all that day yeah and i literally made that prayer i said please give me one job i'll be unemployed for 10 years just to shut them up and i got this role yeah it was to the star in this musical plus it was like acting you know it was about black people white people people. You know, I sang songs like, Mama, I can play that game. Son, it's not your time. You know, that kind of stuff. I can climb that tree.

You know, that kind of stuff. And so my dad came. Everybody came. And I was like, thank you. Yeah. And my mom freaked the fuck out. She just went nuts. I mean, like, that's my son.

And, you know, it was cool. I mean, it's cool if you've had that moment. I know not everybody does, but it was cool. Sometimes it takes a long time, if at all, for them to realize, like, no, I guess he's doing something. I always hated you. But, I mean, I got that. at all for them to realize like i guess he's doing something i always hated you yeah but i mean i got that so it really was but i'll tell you one time like so when we closed you know we only ran for three weeks we closed and my world wasn't ready i don't know it's just yeah i just flopped yeah

real good hearted i mean you know at that time people would come from Brooklyn sure it was all about the Dodgers. Yeah, they remember they would cry I mean the Scrim our curtain was the old Fence from Ebbets Field they recreated it. What was the audience was it was it mixed or was it was papered? Me in the closet go I think we're gonna make it you know I remember one of the last performances again, me, in the clouds. I go, I think we're going to make it. You know, I'm like, look, it's almost a full house.

And like the stage manager goes, kid, that's your cue. And I go, yeah, yeah, but come on. He goes, the audience is papered. I said, what does papered mean? There's Jackie now. And I had to run on stage. And I'm like, oh, God, now I even know. But it was amazing. It was like I was on cloud nine.

It must have been so exciting to be on a big stage. And who cares if it's papered? I mean, to be on Broadway. That was the end. Literally, for that period, everything I could have dreamt in my life came true. And the last day, when we were closing, i had never gone through this and i i remember i got in a cab and i said take me around the park and the guy rode me around the park and i just like bawled like a kid you know it's like it's and i come into the theater and everyone's crying

everyone like these are old hardened crew members yeah weeping, you know, and it just killed me. Because they were attached to the show. They thought it was a great show. Yeah, they believed, I mean, it was a sweet show. It was a very New York show. And it was because,

really what the play was about, there's a great documentary about the Dodgers because this was a time in New York where they got it right. You know, and Ebbets Field, this cross section of Brooklyn, these are baseball players who lived in the community because they didn't make that much money when they were not training. They worked at like the appliance shop or at a car dealership.

Yeah. So they were in the community and it was a very special time. Yeah. So it was, very special time. Yeah. So it was great. I think you should revise it. Only if I can play them now. Yeah. There's young Jackie.

I'm like, I'm a little older. Well, I'm kind of stiff, boys. You know, I've been married three times. I'm like, what? He's 22. If Jackie had lived. But how long did he live uh he sadly once he retired it's like his body fell apart i mean he developed diabetes which he died in his 50s really but the the connection was that most af-Americans who excelled during that period, kind of like my dad, you had to be super exceptional.

I mean, Jackie Robinson got a letter lettered in like three different sports. He could have become an Olympic athlete, a baseball player player a football player you know basketball player anything well that's interesting you couldn't coast you couldn't you know take anything for granted because you had to you know not only make the cut you had to be above it man yeah no one could argue it uh-uh you had to be i'm gonna take these white people let them know you couldn't be like uh-uh yeah and so yeah it yeah, it was wild. It was wild. And then when did the movie start? Well, after the musical, you know, I was nominated for a Tony that year,

which was, you know, it brought me into the community. The world, yeah. The acting, professional acting. I did a show called Soldier's Play at the Negro Ensemble. And we all, I think my first film was streamers with robert altman that's heavy man yeah man it was that was again it was like it's a heavy play are you kidding me god damn i'll tell you like david rabe right i i met him at this place where yeah we all used to hang out and i go hey man david it's me david allen career i'm a young negro actor

and i'm gonna be in your play but we're doing a movie yeah he goes i know i'm like okay it's kind of weird attitude i'm so excited he said you better not it up and i was like okay i'm gonna go sit over here he scared the out of me but i saw him afterwards and he liked it so yeah there's some heavy monologues in that play hey man and Robert Altman man come on it was again it was just that was that period where Altman was shooting those plays yeah when you come back to the five and dime streamers and he did uh there was another one 16 is what it was called and of course people laughed at him you know because I remember I would go into like

real big movies and be like I see you did streamers really oh yeah I remember I would go into like real big movies and be like, I see you did streamers. Really? Oh, yeah. I remember this one well-known director. He goes, yeah, you shoot on that Super 16. All right, go ahead and read. Yeah. Well, what has Alvin been like at that point?

He was so great. I mean, he taught me about movie making. Yeah. Because first of all, the dailies. Yeah. That's all the footage you shot that day yeah the director and everybody they have to watch everything to choose the takes yeah and it was in completely open process you know that's where Altman was he said look I'm not gonna hide anything from you I encourage you actors to come and see this work

because he wanted us to buy into the process yeah i want you to care about what we're doing you're gonna learn right so the next day you're like hey we know what's up exactly maybe i should tone it down yeah right all right all that and so uh we went we went every night and there's like a little bar in the back and we would all watch and and i learned so much on that movie wow and so he did what didn't over direct Yeah, I mean he told me several times. He's like, you know, my biggest job is casting So one of the things when we auditioned is we would read through the whole play Yes at his apartment. He had this place on Central Park and he would switch people out

But I mean you stay there you read the whole first act or the whole entire play. Yeah. And I never have since had an audition process. Right. Well, I talked to a lot of directors. And it turns out a lot of them, it's really like, I cast you. Do what I hired you to do. Yes.

I already believe in you. Yeah, exactly. But so it was great. It was a real great learning process also it demystified it because before that film i didn't know how you got a film i was like well maybe i'm not doing it right yeah you know maybe i need to you know act film acting is different because this is what we were always told yeah well there's a lot of stops and starts you can't get a group going really actually yeah that's lunch you know but uh so i didn't know the process and it was really great and you going from there to soldier story

yeah that that was another that was uh jewison was it norman jewison and and and that was i remember that movie that that movie is a devastating movie it is i mean i'd been in the play and it was called the soldiers play at that time. And you know, Sam Jackson was in there. Oh, really? But his role was cut out of the movie. Uh-huh. And for like a few years, because I was rolling. You know, Denzel Washington, who was a friend, we were all like,

I was like, poor Sam, you think he'll ever get it together? I don't know. He's really tall and weird. Anyway. Yeah. He did all right. Yeah, he's fine. I mean, he just blew the fuck up the up that's right denzel was in that too yep guy you know the two i get confused what's the other one the civil war one all the black people yeah yeah yeah oh you mean

glory yeah yeah yeah well he was great in cool man oh this is another so i read for glory yeah but at the time the guys who directed it the guy who directed it also had 30 something on the air which i loved and i was like listen i don't really want to play a slave yeah i'd love to do 30 something that's what oh yeah so i'm like yeah david you're playing j-bo all right go i was like you came! They're like, thank you for coming in. And I get in the car like, I think I really got his ear on the 30-something. Yeah, again, I was wrong. And you got to play J-Bo on 30-something. No, I didn't. Yes, of course.

I got nothing is what I got. I got the call where your agents go, what happened today? I think it was pretty good. But the fascinating thing about your your career is that all whatever you did as an actor like leading up to it you have a very sort of varied actor's career i mean you've done fucking everything but i mean i always wanted to do it like that yeah but it's amazing because then not everybody gets to do it like that you've never stopped working and you know you took opportunities where you could and the opportunity that makes you is

like you're already three or four or five movies into whatever when in living color happens right but dig that year that you know we had done uh i'm gonna get you sucker yeah now first of all i gotta roll with the weigh-ins yes yeah and that. And that's where, when I did Soldier's Story, I shared a honey wagon or a little dressing room with Robert Townsend. Yeah. Robert Townsend would do these routines. And I'm like, this is the funniest dude I have ever seen in my life. And he would go, I'd be like, is this your act?

I remember watching him on stage at the comedy store. Yeah. The improv. Yeah. And he said, but Robert would go, he'd go, no, that's my act. That's my boy's act damon he was doing mo money he would do he would do a sprinkle of keenan stuff and i'm like who are these people yeah and i need to meet them so he introduced me to the wands and i would hang out

in comedy clubs with him once i moved out that's what i did every night so interesting those two guys as comedians because like when i was a doorman at the comedy store in like 80 whatever the fuck it was 87 like damon had not broke huge so he was still doing stand-up and it was on like one i would sit there in the main room doing the door and like uh i said you can do the that thing tonight he's like no tonight's gonna be jazz set hey man hey him and him and Jim Carrey were talking about, do you remember that time I got in the piano and I stayed there for an hour and a half and I was like, that must have been uncomfortable. What, I don't get it, where was the punchline?

Could people hear you? You know, they were like, no David. Keenan was just straight up standup. Yes. And Damon was like out there. Well Keenan. Keenan was like, hear the jokes. He was in, when we were doing soldier story he Keenan was in the centerfold of right on magazine I was

like that's huge yeah I remember we saw him on The Tonight Show uh-huh in our motel in Arkansas you know And I remember the bit. He would do this bit like how the last person that got on the train, subway train, as the doors closed, it was like watching a baby being born. And he would physically do it. It was hilarious. And I'm like, this guy's a genius, too. There's something in their family. So long story short, I would hang out with those guys.

And it was just by osmosis they said look you have to get on stage if you're going to be here and it was more like a dare yeah so you know i just started for fun yeah doing spots and at the improv no i i chose uh the laugh factory because it was a black hole nobody i remember that was like a hallway yes it was nobody would go in next to that old chinese restaurant that closed it was like i remember that. It was like a hallway. Yes. Nobody would go in there. Next to that old Chinese restaurant that closed. I remember that because I was at the doorman at the comedy store in the mid-80s. And you'd go to the Laugh Factory and it was just like you'd walk in the door and you were in the room. Yes. And in order to go to the bathroom, you had to walk down the right side to that door.

And the guy would be on stage right there. And any time you went there, Paul Mooney was on stage. Well, you're exactly right. And Frasier Smith. It was Fr stage well exactly and fraser smith it was exactly right paul mooney exactly right and paul mooney this is when paul mooney was firing brilliant yeah i just felt like i could work out at the laugh yeah i always hated the comedy store i was always intimidated hated the improv yeah too much pressure it was too much yeah it was too much and um so that's where i started. Yeah, and From there. I remember standing in line. I'd done the pilot. Yeah in living color

So you can only do it once a month So the next month and living colored come on and I done like do what once a month like the open mic Whatever their policy was at that time. You know how to follow the policy. Yeah, because I wasn't anybody I was the policy the left- because i wasn't anybody i was just the policy the left like jamie masada who was working the register yes and the door nobody no no no when you walked in you just mean israeli dude oh yeah you're like you're just here last week no brother no brother and i'm like what are you kidding me there's like 40 seats in the place oh yeah but i remember the wins all those guys when I would do spots, I have it on tape.

Do it again. You're too long with the premise, man. Come on. They were like, tell me this. While you were on stage? While I'm trying to do these bits. And my bits were one-act plays. Yeah, for sure.

Because that's where I came. As the gentleman entered the bar. It's like, shut up. So, at any rate, the deal was i come back a month later in living color was on my three national commercials and these homeless comedians were like what the fuck happened he did one spot and this guy blew up and i never i could never bring myself to say look dude i had a career okay you know so that's what they thought that's interesting because like comedians it's sort of like they their trajectory is what it is you know you hammer

it out then you get to break on the tonight show then maybe you get a deal to do a show here you're you're at yale you're doing jackie robinson you did movies you did tv shows you got commercial you went the whole other way and then you show up in the comedy land they're like who the fuck is this guy oh to get this shit yeah the guy's's open mic or yeah right that's exactly what happened i remember i did a spot at the comedy store and they were like this dude's funny yeah they grabbed mitzi yeah they said dude they brought me to the main one what did you say well she was back there and like one of my big jokes was like detroit police bang freeze and she goes that's Mike binders joke no from Detroit I'm just rolling like Michael it's like you're a thief but I

said keep working yeah and come back you know I think but I like you know she said you know that that's that's his joke but she she was encouraging but I that room was it was too much the original room the little one yes it's heavy dude it's the it like it takes a while to get comfortable there. And if you never get comfortable there, you'll never be comfortable there. Yeah, I mean. Let you go in there tonight and feel that shit. I probably could.

I mean, I performed there several times back in that period. They said, come by any time. That just wasn't my room. As a comic, you know what I mean. That just wasn't the place where I could. Laugh Factory was that place. Right. It's a little looser there.

You feel like you got less to lose for some reason. I could just stretch out. Yeah. And you know, back in the day, we would do like, I remember I'd get in a car, rent a wreck. Yeah. Oh, rent a wreck. I'd do as many spots as I could, four or five spots. In preparing for Living color no just this is

just because once I got into it you gotta prove yourself right it was just obsessive and I'll record every set yeah they all sound the same yeah one people I would kill one audience the next same energy same it was just crickets yeah and finally I just stopped recording myself because it taught me nothing yeah I record and then I don't listen that's my game well i would be like guys have you ever eaten popcorn and you know the on cheese doodles the desk it's on your fingers yeah like you suck you know and like the next they're like screaming hollering and i'm like why i don't know why yeah yeah you get there you can't figure out the magic no so then how did the show come to be uh was it it was on the air before you started on it no no we done uh you were there at the beginning right yeah we done i'm gonna get you

sucker and you know when eddie murphy first popped wait is that i'm gonna get you sucker is that roberts or the way in this movie it was supposed to be both of them what was roberts first movie called the one with the hollywood shuffle okay that's it. Okay. Okay. Got it. Yeah. Shuffle. So I'd come out to do a pilot. I did this show for the Charles brothers, NBC. Um, it was called all is forgiven. Yeah.

Like an 86 or something. First television show. Uh, anyway, in living color, everyone talked about doing, we should do, someone should do a black SNL.

Yeah. You should do a black Saturday night live. Right. Eddie Murphy talked about doing it. Never came to fruition. So Kenan just took up the mantle. He is the first one to actually do it. Like he got this opportunity and he said, we're going to do the sketch show.

And he called me up and he said, I want people to know how funny you are. Because he'd seen me. And hanging out with those guys. Robert, at that time was my best friend. We hung out with each other all night. How's he doing now? I don't talk to him, but the point is, I don't know. I haven't seen him in a long time. I haven't seen him either. I don't know where he is, but I know he and Kenan are still tight. But so that was what it was. He

said, I think you should do this. And it was in a year where I must have auditioned for 30 pilots and after years of trying to control the narrative me I'm you know Stephen Bosco is doing a singing yeah I can guarantee you David much like the Deaf theaters production of Othello this is going to kill yeah and I'm like, wow. I just did In Living Color for fun because my friends were in it. They didn't pay us any money that first year. My agents did not want me to do it.

So I turned it down. And Kim Wayans called me. I moved back to New York in my old apartment and she called me and she talked me down. She said, you've got to come back out. You have to do this show. I'm telling you it'll change your life. And I listened to her.

That's why. And it did. It absolutely did. There's a lot of episodes, dude. A lot of characters. A lot of, and everybody looked like they were having so much fucking fun and there's some weird shit going on. Well, I remember we had this long table.

Yeah. So we'd come in in the morning and we'd have breakfast. And we're comics. We were young. We didn't give a shit. And it was all about making each other laugh. So that was where I saw Fire Marshall Bill. That's where half the characters came there.

And if you made each other laugh, like by the second or third day, you'd be like, Mark, you got to do that. You got to do the radio guy. You have to do it. And you're like, okay. And that's how it happened. It was very organic. There was no, I think I know what our audience 15 to 20. You didn't have any executive heat on you?

No. And it's to Kenan's credit that we were protected. We never felt that pressure. He just said, do whatever you want and then you know it's like you know you can't do the talking butthole or whatever they would just say you know within parameters and we just go and do it i mean he encourages you said don't wait for the writers yeah you guys have to write for yourself yeah like is he serious you know but it was and then you i guess you you probably made a built alliances with certain cast

members that you work better with like you and damon did a lot yeah but you know damon um i remember he came to the dressing room early on he said look man because he was a writer also and he wrote with me he wrote calhoun tubs he said look you need a character david and i was like yeah but you know doing announcing and bit parts and other people's Sketches is working out. He's like no you have to have a signature character. So I told him about this guitar guy Yeah, like I told you I loved playing guitar and we wrote it right in the dressing room He says cool put this on I was Calhoun Tubbs. Yeah, and that's what started, you know started it rolling and right Cuz I never wanted to be That's not my nature. I'd never wanted to be on an SNL thing because basically you're crabs in a barrel. You know, I've hosted it twice. And if you don't get there is so much pressure. If you don't get on as a writer, they're going to fucking fire me. Yeah, I need you. You know, when you come in as a guest host, there's a guy in the back office. He's like, please do this avocado sketch, man.

I got kids. Yeah, man. It is a death sentence. And you're like, yo, man, that shit's not funny. I'm sorry. I can't. And he's like, oh. Yeah.

So I didn't want to be in that situation. But In Living Color wasn't that. Right. There was competition. Sure. But it was healthy. Exactly. He made everyone made each other better.

Theoretically. Well, yeah. Well, I mean, if you didn't have the heat and the pressure from the outside. It was brutal, too. It was brutal. he made everyone made each other better theoretically well yeah well I mean if you didn't have the heat and the pressure from the outside it was brutal too it was brutal

because we would laugh nothing made us happier than when someone sketch bombed of course that's the comics laugh oh of course the laugh

the singular laugh at the back of the room it's like well the way is no one has a more obnoxious laugh than them if you've ever been. I'm like, no one laughs like that.

It was just an acknowledgement. It was punctuating your failure. Yes. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I know that one, yeah. So Jim did, it was called the, what was it called, the diplomat or something? And he played, you know, this overwrought French diplomat

with this big mustache. And, you know, me and Tommy, we're in the sketch. We get killed and we're behind the furniture. And we can feel driplets of sweat hitting us. You look up, Jim's just like fucking sweating. The audience is like, what the fuck is this? And we were crying. We were crying.

I mean, our bodies are like, I am the diplomat. No, nothing. Nothing but crickets. We fucking loved it it's the best you don't see enough of that anymore the camaraderie of enjoying the failure when you die here yeah yeah it's it's become i don't know what happened to that but back in the day in comedy clubs you'd see people losing their shit yeah on stage well i'll tell you what happened is the dude from seinfeld man i mean you record that

yeah you know i guess that well that's true that's true but like there's still like it's weird like yeah if you're at a certain celebrity status where people know that this is going to be something like you know i'm still under the radar and you know there's plenty of us who are still under the radar where there's not like i'm gonna get him he shouldn't be saying that you know it but you're right there is a a constant uh sort of predatory surveillance a predatory tabloid surveillance yeah like when trace tracy morgan got you know all the controversy about his jokes and the homophobic stuff i was like have you heard the rest of his act and then finally i think someone reviewed it on the top in the time you know when he came back they they were like, yes, this was offensive. So was everything.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's what he does. Yeah, but also comedy clubs, it used to be. Like, I remember when Chris Rock was trying new jokes at the Comedy Cellar, and he got reviewed in the Times. It's like, fuck that. Come on, man. It's right. That used to be our place. like at the comedy seller and he got reviewed in the times it's like fuck that come on man it's right that used to

be our place that's it back when I you know when I first got back to LA no one was going to the comedy store it was this dark hole and you're and part of me

was sort of like good now I can just go get some shit done you know take some chances but now I loved your bit about fucking and eating the baby that was brilliant

shut you down yeah why aren't you doing that anymore the baby that was yeah I was at the Montreal and I run into Kevin Hart in this 2010 this before Kevin Hart became big became the king of the universe exactly yeah said man what's going on Dave I was like now I'm going through a divorce divorce he said mess it out everybody's going through divorce he said how you doing I said I'm good now I don't want my ex-wife to die but i do want her to get cancer the pussy and he fell out he was like you have got to talk about that on stage i'm like what are you nuts i have a daughter she's gonna fucking sue me what do you know i

can't talk about that on stage you know and he didn he didn't do it? No, I can't. I can't. I can't look my daughter in the eye. Why did you talk about mommy's vagina? Daddy was angry. It was a joke. It was a joke. You gotta learn sometimes jokes don't do good.

They do look at you like, what? How old is she? She's nine. Oh, okay. And still, I remember I showed her something that was really funny to me. She just looked at it like, what are you, nuts? They take it literally. Yeah, yeah. She just doesn't get it. Right. She's not supposed me. She just looked at it like, what are you, nuts? They take it literally. She just doesn't get it.

She's not supposed to. She will, hopefully. Hopefully. But you know, like I performed a few months ago in San Francisco and the local comics, always some of the best, intelligent, most insightful comics. These guys, I didn't know them,

but they were so paranoid that every joke was an explanation of why it's not racist. You know, I got on the bus and there are two black guys. But I mean, good looking and they can do anything. Seriously. No, no, no, no, no. Wait, wait, wait. No. Yeah.

And it was like, dude, just tell the joke. They were like, you don't know what it's like. I'm like, I guess not. Call me old school yeah it's different this is different but the thing that fascinated me and it was that you know you you always work you do everything that an actor does but also a comic actor you have a lot of range and it's beautiful and you're working with a gerard now and he's like he's great and that character is like you know you it's a rare fucking thing and congratulations not only to have

such a uh uh a kind of non-stop career but then to age into a role that you can own at your age what a fucking gift you know uh i met gerard in montreal yeah and uh he's shiny yes he's very shiny very he doesn't sweat he's just. I don't know if he's human Anyway my but my thing is I want to be funny today. Yeah, I want to be funny right now and I still love it Yeah, I mean I still love the performing feels good, right? No, people would want to hear from me now. And most of them don't. That's not true. They just don't know that they do.

There you go. There you go. No, but I mean, that's it. I mean, I want to be the older actor that I wanted to work with when I was younger. You know what I mean? Not the dude who comes in like, listen, kid, you're going to suck cock if you want to make it. That's what you got to do.

Yeah, yeah. I'm like, really? Yeah. No, I want to be the guy. And you can start now. Exactly no i want to be that you can start now exactly i want to be that guy there were some older actors who still had life and belief and believed in the art and the craft that's what i want to be but but i also think the fact that like you can't stop yourself from getting on a mic or getting on a stage or taking a gig like you know

you did a lot of work with carola you went through a lot of pain and trouble with divorces in a very candid format and and ultimately what happens is as some guy who is a too much information guy is people get to know you too well and you know and and that's not bad thing because you help a lot of people when you do that but i think that you know the idea that people don't want to hear from you is the only thing that they know you pretty fucking well i didn't count on that i didn't i know but like you know you're gonna get on radio and you're gonna do if you're gonna do love line and corolla they're gonna they're gonna we got a live one here he's well he's broken and he's wide open but you know what man i remember i was in i was in dean and deluca yeah a couple things first of all down on uh on uh back when it was it's still there

yeah west broglie or whatever i gotta go back when in living color was canceled yeah i really thought at that time okay i have about 18 months where i can headline clubs and venues then that's gonna go away and then i just have to you know go on with my career because there was no internet, no YouTube, no, none of that. I couldn't picture this technological ability to press a button and collect all the favorite sketches you had. So I didn't see the longevity of this show. Was not part of your job description to foresee technology. No, that's what I mean.

I didn't think it would be like this. But you had it, you knew from seeing other people do it, you knew you had a window if you played it right. Which I did. But I didn't think at this point people would still be talking about In Living Color. I just didn't see it. Jim Carrey saw it. Yeah. Because he said from the beginning, he said, what we're doing is history.

And I was like, what are you, nuts? Yeah, it's TV. What do you mean history? Exactly. This is not history. He saw that. I mean, I didn't see that. So here we are but no but but

the beautiful thing is is you're doing this character you did you know out after everything you put out in the world you've got this great character on a great uh sitcom with a creative guys and then you do and now you got this gig i don't know what this game show is but i think at the end here we should pay some lip service to it because ostensibly a money maker let me tell you no i know but like i was going to tell you the premise though i like the premise it is it's uh basically you just uh it relies on your prejudices right i think it's an interesting idea because i'm in here every fucking day with guys like you and whoever like you know celebrities and i think i know something right and i'm always fucking wrong and it's sort of fascinating to me how we judge people like you and whoever, like, you know, celebrities. And I think I know something. Right.

And I'm always fucking wrong. And it's sort of fascinating to me how we judge people. Yeah. Does the show pay any, does it do any service to that? I mean, is there something socially relevant about the show? No. It's for fun. It's for fun.

No, we don't sit there. There's no PBS moment. Your dad's not there going, I understand. Oh, wow. I'll put it like this, my dad was still alive when I did Dancing with the Stars. And so I got eliminated. My father wrote me an email and he said,

shall I immobilize the troops? Is it because you're just too good looking and you have a Yale education that these bastards are jealous of you? I was like, no, not really, Dad, thanks. But it was very sweet. In these moments I was like, no, not really, Dad. Thanks. But it was very sweet. In these moments, I was like, my dad loves me. In a twisted, inappropriate way, but he loves me.

Well, no, it's nice when you can see through it, when they get to that point where they get past their competitiveness and their own dumb pride. Yeah. When you have a certain type of father, you got to find those moments of weakness where you're like, oh, he likes me. Well, you have to read way between the lines. And by the way, that email was not a joke. Right. He wasn't being funny.

This is when you lost? Yes. He wasn't being funny. I mean, he was absolutely serious. Yeah. He was coming to your defense. Yes. So I fucked him.

Clearly, this is another example. Well, the white man has denied my son. And I was like, pipe down, Dan. But anyway. Well, good. Well, man, it was great talking to you and it was a lot of fun i big fan of the show oh thank you uh judd apatow i've listened to that interview like three or four times yeah judd used to hang around in living color oh i'm sure yeah yeah and he'd like try and give jokes sure he sat there going like i'm gonna be the biggest thing in hollywood comedy well i finally did a judd apatow movie i did the big sick oh yeah just

i talked to i saw that you were great that was great well it's a very small role yeah but but it's an important role well the club owner is the important role the coked up club guy the coked up club owner or club manager oh he's not the not the owner. He's the club manager. Right, right. Who does stand up. Yeah. Isn't that in every club? Like the dude who is there that no one thinks is funny. Right.

But they know they need him. He controls everything. Sure. You know, that whole system has gotten a little exhausted, you know, because you can sort of circumvent it now. Yeah. The one guy in the town that's deciding whether or not you get on stage. But they still exist.

Well, that... Anyway, Emily Gordon... And you know what? They're the biggest fucking criminals. They are the fucking monsters. Well, they've been hacked by Russia. Well, everybody has. But Emily Gordon, she was a writer.

Yeah, she's great. On the Carmichael show. She told me she was doing a movie. I was like, great, you're a little movie. I'll do it. She's like, okay. So that's how it came about I didn't know did you like the movie when you watch it of course it was awesome you know what's awesome about it is like you you watch it and you're like there's no way this was made up you know and it's so rare to see

something translated like that like a very unique love story that the darkness of it is so real the only thing they didn't capture is that so emily is one of the happiest people i've ever met yeah like so joyous that i stopped her this is how the conversation started why are you so fucking happy and she goes because everybody should because it's an amazing day and i'm like no really cut the bullshit yeah why and she told me the story well you know i almost died and i'm like you're lying and she goes no i wrote a book about it and blah blah blah and i'm like what lying and she goes no I wrote a book about it and blah blah blah And I'm like what mm-hmm and she was yeah, and we wrote a script about it, and I'm like what yeah

You know and I was like knee-jerk. Yeah, I'll do it. She was really I said yeah, I'll do anything It's great. Yeah, it's great Congratulations to them you're busy man, and it's good. I gotta go to to work. You do? Where are you going? I'm going back home. Yeah? To just chill. Do you live nearby? I do not. Now, I have questions.

Yeah. I live in the Hollywood Hills, but what is this neighborhood? Highland Park. Highland Park. You'll get back easy. So you can go to the 134 or something? Yeah, but is it Glendale? No.

Oh, you're close. It's sort of between Pasadena and Glendale. Highland Park. This is a hip little pocket here. Yeah, it's a nice little shtetl of hipsters. How long have you been here? I've been here since 2004. Wow.

And it's a nice little neighborhood. I didn't know anything about the neighborhood. I was driving a guy around who was looking to rent a house, and I saw this for sale and i had a little deal money i'd never bought a house before i'm like that one seems good and when i first moved here and i was driving to him back and forth in the comedy store i'm like where the fuck do i live what did i do yeah but now it's like yeah i like it it's great man I'm glad we talked. Absolutely. Funny guy. Definitely paid his dues.

Definitely deserves all the work he gets and works a lot. David Alan Greer. It was very nice having him here. You can always go to WTFpod.com for all your WTFpod needs. Seems a lot of people don't check there Before they Tell me to have a guest on WTFpod.com slash podcast Will get you a search bar Where you can search all 800 Now however many episodes

Alright you dig it I believe I may be talking to Vice President Al Gore next week That should be exciting and harrowing And Scary But informative that should be exciting and harrowing and scary but informative hopefully infused with a bit of hope

should we play some guitar I'm set up everything's clean some like nice stuff not too crazy probably something I've done before why not why not do it why not why not Why not? Why not? Thank you. Boomer lives! Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton.

The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com.