WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 840 - Alice Cooper

Episode Date: August 23, 2017

Marc gets the full story of how Vincent Furnier became Alice Cooper and took rock & roll into dark and unexpected territory. Alice tells Marc about the early formation of his band, how his return to Christianity helped him confront his alcoholism, and how he's remained sober for nearly 40 years. Along the way, he inspired, and was inspired by, the likes of John Lennon, Iggy Pop, Lou Reed, Frank Sinatra, Groucho Marx, Glen Campbell, and many more. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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i saw the old man the the source i went to the source and uh he's all right i did about an hour over there that was about all that was necessary i'll get into that in a minute today on the show i talked to alice cooper and i it's interesting about Alice Cooper. You know, I'll tell you about that in a minute too, because I didn't, of course I know who Alice Cooper is. I know who, uh, some of his music.

I know his reputation in certain ways. I know my assumptions about him, but it wasn't until I went back and listened to a bit of almost every record he did before. I really got a full picture in terms of, you know, who he is musically, which I found to be pretty fucking good. Obviously, I'm not the first person to say that,

but for unique reasons, and I'll get into that in a minute. I am up here in Santa Fe, New Mexico. I am doing the thing that I do sometimes when I come up here. I go to this reasonably priced spa situation that is gorgeous. It's up in the mountains. It's called 10,000 Waves. You get a little room, and then there's a Japanese spa with the pools and tubs and massages. And today, recording as I am on Wednesday, the day after Tuesday, for the first time, I got shiatsu, and I had to get the Trump knots shiatsu out of the fibers of my fucking muscles because that guy infuses himself into your very genetic composition. What I started to realize and look, you know, if any of you are like, no, here he goes again.

You know, don't fucking listen really seriously, man, just realize that not only is this guy, this leader, this president, probably pretty mentally unstable, which is not a surprise. And some people like that about him. He's erratic, whatever. The thing is, he's persistent. And if you check your phone a lot, what happens is you're just inundating yourself with images of him. So you go to your browser and you start looking at stories and you could put

yourself through 20 or 30 pictures of that guy a day. And if you are disturbed by what's going on or angered or terrified, keep pounding your brain with those images, which is hard to get rid of the images on your news browser. But I think it has somewhat the same effect as posters being everywhere like mao zedong like like just there or stalin or any of the other you know famous fascists uh you just like if they constantly put their image everywhere which they usually do in buildings or they force you to do it in your home or it's constantly it's on your tv too Just this image of that guy's mug in varying degrees of anger and insanity and sort of false strength poses,

strutting pomposity poses. All of that takes a toll and starts hammering away at your psychic machinery. These are psychic terrorism tools and tactics at work to pummel your sense of outrage to pummel your sense of what is moral and right and also to pummel what america is supposed to be don't be pummeled by putting yourself through multiple images of that guy into your head because it does not after a while you'll just kind of shut the fuck down,

which is what happens in authoritarian countries. You just sort of like, oh, there he is again. Oh my God, he's everywhere. I'm exhausted. Let me just do my job. Oh, I hope this turns out okay, and they don't bother me. Oh God, why am I so sad and thinking about death all the time

don't do it and if you don't know why it's happening to you it might be the constant input of those images and of course anytime he spins out and goes all shitty hitler on us somewhere in the united states surrounded by you know his cult-like following who enjoy chanting childlike slogans that in addition to you know the constant psychic pummeling with photographs will take its toll stay awake stay vigilant push back so i went and visited my dad and this is the thing my dad is sort of trying to downsize a bitch trying to unload some stuff he was sort of a kind of an amateur art collector he never bought too many winners but you know he moved most of it out he used to have a lot of art in his house of one kind or another native american art some indigenous art from alaska he

had some paintings from modern painters here in new mexico and then a bunch of paintings by this other guy that he got sort of hooked into buying an entire collection by this guy zerby some in caustic abstract bits and you know canvases all gone but there's one canvas that the old man can unload and i said maybe i could help you out maybe i could help you out now i don't know i don't know if there's any nitty gritty dirt band fans out there or how much of a fan you are. If you know any nitty gritty dirt band fans out there, I don't think you could know where this is going. But my father in his living room has a giant 68 inch by 162 inch canvas and it is the full painting of the album cover of the nitty-gritty dirt bands hold on album okay it was done by a dude named steven rosser you've got the

nitty-gritty dirt band there and you've got sort of a ghost bucking bronco rider there with some ufos on it in the middle of the desert. This is a giant piece of art meant for the hardcore nitty gritty dirt band fan. Now, if you have any of those in your life, look, when I look at it, I don't know why he bought it, people. I don't know what, but what point in his mind he would make that decision where they like they're like, here's the album.

He says, they told me not to open the album, vinyl record and i'm like who told you is that going to add to the value of this particular giant painting that was an album cover for a later version of the nitty-gritty dirt band i mean the album came out i don't know in the 80s well i don't know anything about the nitty-gritty dirt i know i did a couple of good ones early on but what do i know but i don't know why my dad bought this painting but he definitely stuck with it so i thought maybe there's an outside chance that one of you out there might have this moment like holy shit that is my favorite nitty gritty dirt band album how much is that canvas he's willing to negotiate all right you let me know you let me know if you're interested it's a big painting and if you had that moment like hold on by the nitty-gritty dirt band holy shit i fucking want that i want

that painting i would i'll let it take up an entire wall in my house which it will and if you have a friend that's sort of like oh that's my that's my buddy's favorite nitty-gritty dirt band album hold on right i love that fucking cover you can own the painting i don't know why he bought it he's had it for years i never knew why i don't even know if he likes the nitty gritty dirt band i don't know the story behind it maybe i should have asked but i'm just putting this out there all right so alice cooper now alice cooper is uh All right. So Alice Cooper. Now, Alice Cooper is, you know, there are a lot of people who love his stuff and there's a lot of stuff to love. But, you know, he's also known. He's a very out Christian.

Found Christ later in life or refound Christ later in life after years of drugs and alcohol, mostly alcohol. No problem talking Jesus. No problem talking jesus no problem talking music no problem talking booze and drugs and no problem telling stories about his career and show business and i found him to be a completely pleasant solid professional dude and one of the reasons i had him on i met alice cooper the first time at conan o'brien i had this moment where i was watching him this was just like last year and he was putting on his show he had a hat on the cane he was doing sort of a shtick and i realized like holy shit it's all shtick this guy is a traditional almost vaudevillian

showman and always has been he's real show business alice cooper is real show business and i'm like i gotta i'll talk to this cat anytime he wants to. But what I didn't realize is that he's also real songwriter, man. I mean, I didn't. And obviously some of you are going like, how did you not know that? But but what I didn't realize, it's like the songs that some I mean, he did a lot of great anthems. 18 is great. School's out for summer is great.

No more. Mr. Nice summer is great um no more mr nice guy is great but what i i've started to do and this was really the first time i i did this uh and i don't know why i never did it was when i'm dealing with an artist who has a massive catalog which he does you know what i can do is i can just go to apple music and listen to at least a bit of every album. And I did. And what kind of blew me away about Alice Cooper was the two songs that when I was a kid, which were these slow songs, beautiful songs. Both of them kind of make me cry. Only Women Bleed and I Never Cry.

But those two songs are these sweet. They're not sweet. They're're heavy but they're slow songs i mean i never cry could be a fucking elton john song and it was then you know when i see the arc of where alice cooper comes from from the first kind of out there records through sort of anthemic you know you know teen rebellion records to like these like these beautiful i don't even know if they're called ballads but only women bleed and i never cry are fucking if he had just made those two songs those are it which really substantiates him and validates him among other things as this amazing songwriter so like i had a tremendous sort of epiphany with alice cooper before i talked to him i'm very grateful i did because i entered with the proper amount of respect and not just this idea that like this guy was crazy with the snakes and the guillotine and the electric chair and that shit and killing chickens.

So I was able to kind of go in impressed and excited. And he was very receptive. And it was a great conversation. This is me and Alice Cooper back in the garage. Me and Alice Cooper back in the garage. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer.

I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy?

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I used to love to go to FM radio stations. Oh, where they had the records? They still had the records up on the wall? And they said, what do you want to play? You go, oh, Paul Butterfield. Yeah, right. Paul Butterfield. Out of all things, that pops into your head, Paul Butterfield.

Yeah, that was the best band I ever heard. Really? When you were a kid? Yeah. Or like when you were coming up? Well, you know, we learned Paul Butterfield stuff because every good rock band ever yeah was started as a blues rock band sure we you know the stones the beatles everybody and if you could sit down and play born in chicago by paul butterfield and learn some of the heart parts and learn some

of the guitar oh yeah that was learning process man yeah and he well they were i guess it's interesting about butterfield because he was like the they they were really the legacy of the Chicago Blues. They weren't British guys. No. That were taking the records and recycling it. Exactly. Yardbirds were the closest thing to Paul Butterfield. Right.

Because they were the, you know, they were the British Blues guys. But when you grew up in, were we in Detroit? Detroit. Did you, but who was coming through there? Well, it was, I was, you know. But you were a little kid. But the coolest thing that ever happened to my family was my uncle, my uncle Vince, was a boxer.

He's like a flyweight boxer, tough little guy, played Telecaster guitar. Yeah, good guitar. And the first thing he ever brought me was Chuck Berry. Sure. And Chuck Berry was the first thing before Elvis. Right. I heard Chuck Berry Berry and I went,

that guy just told me a story in three minutes. It's pretty crazy, right? He was the best lyricist of all time. He does not get the credit for being the greatest lyricist of all time. Like you listen to You Can't Catch Me. Yeah. Or Too Much Monkey Business.

Too Much Monkey Business. How many times did Dylan listen to that song? I wonder. Exactly. And not only that, but if he couldn't think of a word, he'd make one up. Sure, why not? He says, you know, don't give me no botheration. Right, that's great.

I love that word. You got license? The coolerator. Yeah, that's right. The coolerator. Yeah, coolerator's good. So you were like, what was Detroit like then? Was your dad in the motor business?

My dad was an honest used car salesman in Detroit, which means he made no money at all. What? Did he have a second job? Oh, no, no. And so he made no money. My mom was a waitress. She was a chewing gum waitress. What do you have?

Is that true? Really? She was great. She's still alive, 92 years old. Really? Yeah. But my dad finally got to the point of realizing that he worked for nothing but criminals. And they finally said, Mick, you can't make any money in this business.

You should become a pastor. He became a pastor. A pastor? My dad was a pastor. What denomination? Protestant pastor. And my grandfather was an evangelist. And my wife's dad is a baptist pastor so you come from pastors you come from uh i was the prodigal ministry yeah i was a prodigal son i grew up in the church went as far away as i could and then came back that's it yeah because i i know you talk about it a lot and you're pretty public about uh being a christian again yeah or coming back around to it yeah but you but you did have an honest rebellion from it. Oh, my gosh, yeah.

And it was very public, I think. Yeah, and so did Marilyn Manson. Marilyn Manson, you know, grew up. You guys getting along? Oh, yeah, we get along. I mean, not theologically, but we, you know, we are good friends. Yeah. You know, and the thing about it is, is on the last, on the very last night of the tour that we worked together yeah i got

along with maryland really well i hear he's a nice guy i mean but like i i imagine there must have been some contention initially you spawned a lot of people well i i sparred with him in the press a lot you did was that fake or was it no it was for real because he was talking about oh i used to really respect alice till i heard he was christian and then you know so and i'm a i'm a priest in the satanic you know church and i'm. And I'm a priest in the satanic church. Anyone can be a priest in the satanic church. Right. And then when I meet him, all we talked about was marriage.

Oh, really? And I met him in Transylvania. How's that? That's funny. A festival in Transylvania. I mean, it's like the castle is there. And clearly they had a theme in mind. They had a theme.

And he walks by the dressing room and walks in. He said, can I come in? I went, yeah. So we sat and talked. And all we talked about was marriage. I've been married 41 years. Yeah. had a theme in mind and he walks by the dressing room walks in he said can i come in i went yeah so we sat and talked and all we talked about was marriage i've been married 41 years yeah that lady lovely lady that was that's good it's a good job you know it's funny because uh in terms like uh i've been hearing a lot about uh the song you know i'm 18 because people have been emailing me i just had 18 years sober last wednesday so people have been sort of like oh you got to listen to you know that's your song i'm 36 years now i think right yeah feel better oh are you kidding i would have been long gone dead i mean i you know you have to remember my big brothers and big

sisters when i came to l.a from phoenix yeah jim morrison jimmy hendricks janice joplin they were like i drank with them and i was the little guy, little fly on the wall. At that hotel? At Landmark, you know. And that's where you met Shep? That's where I met Shep. Well, take me there from like, so your dad's a Protestant pastor,

which is not hardcore per se, right? No, in fact, he could tell you who played bass for the animals. Sure. But it's not Fire and Brimstone, but your grandfather was. But they were, and my granddad was pretty cool too.

Yeah. But they all loved music. Yeah. His deal was this. He says, look, I love the music. He said, I love the show. Will he take you to rock shows? Yeah.

But he saw the stories with me. Oh, yeah? And he says, I have no problem. I have a problem with the lifestyle. Uh-huh. And I went, okay. Talking about your stuff. Well, he says the whole lifestyle, you have to remember that was right when the hippie lifestyle was, you know, free love.

When you were starting out. I just was getting ready to go to LA. But when you saw the Stones, when did you see the Stones with them? Oh, I was 17 years old. So they weren't hippies yet. No. It was still kind of clean. It was British invasion.

Right. Cool. Cool stuff. And you saw them on like when you were 17. So that must have been pretty electrifying. Do you remember? And it was the real stones right it was wyman sure and you know yeah brian short on piano maybe no just the five

oh just the five no lighting uh-huh it was just and they were playing playing blues mixed with a few of the hits all the original songs all the original first two albums so you see the stones so they're in your head yeah how about the det guys? Is Mitch Ryder around yet, or who's around? Those guys were on the radio, but I wasn't really connected up with them because I was so locked in. Motown? Motown was on the radio, but I was living in Phoenix now.

Already? Yeah, I was living in Phoenix. How'd you get there that quick? 10, I had to get out of there because of asthma. I had to get out of Detroit. You were the one with asthma. I had asthma so bad. Oh, yeah.

And so your family moved because they wanted you to be able to live and breathe. To breathe would be a good thing. For the kid. Kid's got to breathe, apparently. So I'm in Phoenix, and I'm painting the house on a summer, and the radio's always on, and all of a sudden I hear, she loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, I stopped. And I went, what was that?

Right? It can still make you stop, right? Really. I I mean, I stopped. And I went, what was that? Right? It can still make you stop, right? Really. I've never heard anything like that. And then about a half an hour later, I heard, please, please me, oh yeah. And I went, what is this? You know, honestly, it changed my life. I called my Dennis Dunaway, who was our bass player, original bass player.

We ran track and cross country together in high school, in art class. And I said, did you hear that? And he goes, yeah, what is that? Next thing we saw a picture of him, and I said, that's it. That's what we're doing. We got to do that. We got to do that.

That first album, like, you know, like... So good. Well, yeah, I just got chills, kind of. Because, you know, I'm a little younger than you, about a decade or so, but we had that record. And just like you put that on now and you're sort of like, what the fuck? I tell bands all the time, young bands, that they go, we'd like you to produce us. I said, let me hear what you're doing.

And they got a great image. You guys are tough. I get it. And I'm like this. And then they yell at me for about three minutes with a hook and a drum beat. And I go, I want you to do three things. I said, I want you to listen to the Beatles' first album, the Four Seasons, and the Beach Boys.

And they look at me like, why? And I said, because that's how songs are written. Now, write me a song and be just as angry. Yeah. I get it. You're angry. Yeah. But now write a song with a verse a b section a chorus

and then yeah be angry yeah yeah that's well because that's sort of what like the weird thing about going through your stuff today which i did just like i literally went through just to because i grew up in the 70s and there's songs on in your catalog that were hits that are beautiful. They're not hard rock songs. They're like, Only Women Bleed, I Never Cry. And I remember they're dug into my brain. And I'm like, oh, fuck, right, that's Alice Cooper. Like that moment. We confused a lot of people on those.

Well, I mean, but those were, you loved those songs, I'd imagine. They were great. And they were the easiest ones to write. Those songs, for some reason, were harder to write a simple rock song than a simple ballad. But I was working with all the right people. Bob Ezrin was our George Martin. Is he the guy that Shep hooked you up with, the Canadian? Well, he was the Canadian guy, yeah.

He came out, and he was supposed to get rid of us. Oh, really? And he listened to us at Max's Kansas City. We played at Max's one night and he came. Jack Richardson said, get rid of these guys. We don't want them on our... Which label was this? It was Jack...

We just wanted him to produce. We didn't care about a label at this point. Oh, so you weren't even signed yet? No. Nothing. And the next thing you know, Bob Ezrin comes back and he goes, you're going to fire me, but I love them. He says,

they're the future. They're what's going to happen. I can take this band and he says, your punishment is you have to produce them. Oh, really? That was it?

Well, seven platinum albums later, it was a good punishment. Yeah, you worked with them on and off for a long time, but let's go for it. So you're with your track and field buddy. Yeah.

What's his name? Dennis Dunham. Dennis, yeah, who's in the original band. And he was in the Beatles. And now, you know, how do you start out in rock and roll? It's a very funny story. I mean, you probably couldn't write this. Yeah.

So we're all, we're jocks. Yeah. Four-year lettermen. Really? Yeah. So you're a senior at this time? Track and cross country. No, freshman.

Okay. So I've got four stripes here from track and cross country. No, freshman. Okay. So I got four stripes here from track and cross country. Dennis has four stripes. Our drummer has four stripes. Yeah. So we're walking through this, you know,

the school like we own it. Yeah. Right. Right. Now, we got these three guys. We should do like at the Letterman's Club talent show.

Right. We should do a mimic of the Beatles. Yeah put the beatles hats on right do i'll beat you yeah yeah yeah all right you know yeah yeah um and we did it and we hired girls to scream for us and at that moment i went this is what i'm going to do for real and you're just lip-syncing at that point right no we say i'm just saying saying. Along with it. We found the two biggest juvenile delinquents in the school, Glenn Buxton and John Tatum, who were always in fights or always illegal at every point. The opposite of jocks.

Right. And they were our guitar players. Because they knew how to play. They ended up, Glenn ended up being one of the great rock guitar players. Yeah, he was on all the band records, right? He created Schools Out. You know, he created all that stuff. He was the only guy that could jam with Sid Barrett.

Right, he got it. Right, yeah, yeah. So anyways, now we've got a band and we're actually pretty good. At this point, are you like, is your faith intact? Yeah. Yeah, but you're not like-

I go to church still and everything, and I'm still running track and so, but we are in this little band playing at parties. In Phoenix. Getting a little better. Yeah. Finally, we get this job at the VIP club. Right. What's that?

That's the big club. Yeah. In Phoenix. A thousand people. Oh, yeah. And we're called the Spiders now, and we wear all black. Yeah. And there's a web behind us.

So it's beginning. It's starting. And we start out with the Who. And we start out with the Yardbirds and Train Kept a Rollin'. You remember? Oh, you did Train Kept a Rollin'. What Who song were you doing? Yeah.

The Yardbirds version. Which Who song were you doing? We were doing Out in the Street. Uh-huh. Substitute. Uh-huh. You know, all. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And we were really a good bar band. Combo. Good combo. So we were really a good bar band. Combo. Good combo. So we were drawing 1,000 people a week. Got hot in Phoenix. Now we're not only jocks at the school. But you're, yeah. Now we're the biggest band in the school.

Local rock stars. I become Ferris Bueller. Yeah, man. I run the school. Yeah, yeah, man. At this point, everybody's doing my homework. Teachers, I got conned to no end. And I just breezed through high school. And you loved it. You. Teachers, I got conned to no end. And I just was breezed through high school.

And you loved it. You felt it. I loved it. You loved the attention. And we were good. That's the thing I liked about it was the fact that if we were just phony, it would be different. But we were actually really good. What was it about the yardbirds that really floated your boat so much?

We loved the Beatles. The Beatles influenced everybody. I don't care if you're Cradle of Filth. You were influenced by the Beatles. The Beatles influenced everybody. Sure. I don't care if you're Cradle of Filth. Yeah. You were influenced by the Beatles. The Stones, same thing. Yeah. So when people say, who influenced you? That's a given.

Mm-hmm. You know? Mm-hmm. We then went for, what about this band that's got this guitar that sounds like it's out of control? Yeah. Well, Pete Townshend. Yep.

And Jeff Beck. Right. Those were the guys. We heard those songs and went oh I still can't wrap my head around Jeff Beck no nobody can it's like I don't know I think even Jimmy Page said one time there's all of us and then there's Jeff Beck yeah and Jimi Hendrix said like I talked to Billy Gibbons who's on your new record yeah who I love yeah Billy's great he's great he's great he said when he opened for Hendrix in Texas on that tour when he was I forget the

name of Billy's first band. It wasn't. Moving Sidewalks. Moving Sidewalks. He went and hung out with Jimmy, and Jimmy would have a stereo console brought up to the hotel, and he would just sit around trying to figure out what Jeff Beck was doing. Everybody.

Nobody plays as pure as Jeff Beck. It's crazy, man. And Jimmy's the best rock guitar player. Hendrix. Clapton's the best rock guitar player. Hendrix. Clapton is the best, you know, blues player. Jimmy Page is right there. I'm a big Peter Green fan. Peter Green.

Oh, my God. We used to play with him in Detroit when he was with Fleetwood Mac. Did you really? With Peter? Yeah. And Savoy Brown, who is now with Foghat after that. Foghat. But was Peter Green a heavy cat?

Yeah, it was cool. He seemed like... He wasn't psychotic at that point yeah but was was peter green a heavy cat do you remember him cool like he seemed like like he wasn't psychotic at that point but but was he sad no he was a rock guy because he felt like i felt that the way he sang man was like yeah yeah sad well i love him those guys i'm trying to get little bits and pieces of peter green wherever i can yeah he he wasn't as close as some of the other guys. Yeah. Like we met the Clapton's and all those guys, the Jimmy Pages

and they were kind of cool. In Detroit. Yeah, Green was a little out there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It feels that way in general. It wasn't like warm. Right, right. Yeah, yeah.

Jimmy was the best guy. Jimmy was the nicest, coolest guy. Hendrix was. I always found that the bigger they were, the nicer they were. The Beatles were the nicest guys in the world. The Stones, the nicest guys. But you didn't meet

them till later. Yeah, not till later, but they really, I found something out about Sinatra and Presley and all those guys. The bigger you got, the less of a jerk you were. Well, yeah, because you really, like, your life didn't enable you to really hang around with anybody

that much. Well, and not only that, but you don't have anything to prove. Right, right. You've done it. And you're kind of happy to talk to somebody, especially if someone's introduced you. Like, this guy's a good guy. And you're like, okay. Yeah. You're cool.

He's already got his status. That's right. He's there. It's the guys on the way up that are the jerks. Yeah. And then sometimes you see them fall down. Yeah. Right?

And you kind of push them, help push them a little. Maybe you put your foot out, trip a little. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Maybe you learn a little lesson. Write a song about that.

So, all right, so how do you get from the Spiders to Los Angeles? I mean, what? So now we're the best band in Phoenix. And so we didn't think, well, we're going to go to L.A. and conquer L.A.

because now we're the best. We get to L.A. and realize that every band from every city, the best band from every city is in LA trying to get in the whiskey or one of the five or six clubs going on there. And you're up against the Doors, Love, all these great bands. It was Albert Lee, right? Arthur Lee. Arthur Lee, yeah, yeah. Albert Lee's another guy. And Buffalo Springfield.

You know, you're up against... So they were all out there when you went out there. And they were already big. So that's what, 68, 69? You're killing yourself to get in any club. What year? 67, 68. So you guys go out there, green.

Starve. Just green. Just starve. But you made the move. We made the move. Changed the name of the band? Well we made the move change the name of the band change that well we didn't change the name of that we were the naz then and it's easy like but ron grin had then we found that out and we said we got to come up with a name now

and the first name that came up dennis came up with the husky baby sandwich yeah and i said that's cool that's great but yeah they'll be expecting that. Let's do something that they're not going to expect. What if you get this notorious band that we were, by this time we were notorious. In Phoenix. In LA too. For doing what? People just didn't get, we were already very theatrical at the time. Like what was the theatrics at that time?

Well, anything that we could find. If I could find a mop, that was part of the show. If I could find a bucket. So you're riffing. I was kind of carrot top. Yeah, yeah. What have could find a mop, that was part of the show. If I could find a bucket. So you're riffing. I was kind of carrot top. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What have I got? Yeah, yeah.

That was, anything was guerrilla theater on stage and we did it. And the stuff sounded like, sort of like psychedelic noise, like Pink Floyd. Well, it was songs, but they were not at all

what you would normally hear. On purpose. We were doing Pretties For You songs at that point. Which is, I like that record. It's weird as hell. It is weird as hell here you know on purpose we were doing pretties for you songs at that point and even which is i like i like that record you know because it's weird as hell it is weird as hell and i did did you find at that time you were being intentionally weird or yes we were art majors yeah and we and

everybody sounded like this i said if we can just throw a little yard birds yeah and then do this and dennis would bring in these songs yeah When we played them for Frank Zappa, Frank listened and he says, I don't get it. Frank didn't get it. Yeah. That's a problem. And I went, is that good or bad? And he goes, no, it's good.

He says, I don't get it. And he says, you have five songs that are two minutes long and has 37 changes in each song. And it never goes back to one of the changes. Right. And I went, yeah. And he goes, I don't get it. He said, where are you guys from? I said, San Francisco. And I said, we're from Phoenix.

He goes, okay, and now I don't get it at all. You're supposed to do cowboy music there. So he signed us because of that. You were an art school major? We were all art majors. In college? No, just in high school. Oh, you were just art guys and jocks and rock stars.

But we were really way into salvador dali we were way into really obscure electronic but we were also way into west side story yeah we were way into james bond themes yeah and we were the generation that was brought up on tv themes sure so you'd find a little bit of i spy yeah in one of the sure in the guitar you find a little bit of man from uncle over here and also like i i noticed that there is sort of like uh uh you know what's the word it's not there is sort of a a cabaret feeling to like a burlesque thing vaudeville very vaudevillian but but did you but were you conscious of that? No. We didn't understand it. To me, why not make the lyrics come to life?

We couldn't afford it, but why not make the lyrics come to life? If you're going to say, later on, you say, welcome to my nightmare, you give them the nightmare. Don't just say it. Produce the nightmare. Why not? Nobody else was doing it. It's like opera.

Yeah. And if you're going to be the villain of rock, which I said, you've got all these Peter Pans and no Captain Hook. Yeah. I said, I will gladly be Captain Hook. I'll be Moriarty. Sure. You'll be the heel of the industry.

Oh, I want to be the guy that when I walk in the room, people take a step backwards and they go, it's Darth Vader. Right. Because they didn't have one. They didn't have one on purpose. Jim Morrison was the closest thing. But he was more of a mystic. And he was just a mysterious poet.

Yeah. Right. Right. You know, this guy, i wanted to walk into a room and terrify people yeah on purpose yeah now did you did you see jim and all those guys did you oh yeah i used we toured with you know the first people that ever took us under their wing in la were the doors and this is one tell me so how did you 67 how'd you end up like what was the scene you scene? You come out in 67, where do you live? We lived where we finally, we met this guy named Doak. Yeah. We had never met a gay person in our life. Sure.

This guy lived right in West Hollywood. He was an actor, and he somehow said, you guys can all live at my house yeah okay but didn't come on to anybody yeah you know and we all went okay yeah so there were seven of us living in the living room of his house well at least we had a place to stay sure and it i don't know how we survived that you know but i mean well it wasn't that it was just the fact that i don't even know how we got money enough to eat. We had enough money, just enough to get- No one was working? We were working, but just enough to barely get gas for the car and eat whatever.

The idea was at that point, find a girlfriend who has a job. Yeah. That's always the rock idea. That was it. Yeah. We had to do that. Yeah. I don't think he invented that one.

And then when Mike Bruce would take his girlfriend into the bedroom, we would go through her purse, but we were smart enough to only steal $20. Sure, right. $20 would be the band for a week. You earned that from stealing money from your parents. That's exactly right. Where's dad's wallet? And we could rationalize it.

It's for the good of the band. And she'll know that if we get caught. Yeah. So if we all had girlfriends, we could live. Good. You had a real business plan in place. So tell me about that hotel where you met Shep, though, and where Jimmy and Janice and everybody took. It's so funny because Shep and I always have different stories on how it all worked because we were high all the time.

Well, that's what Shep said. He was basically a drug dealer. Shep was a drug dealer. So we're living at this point now. We're playing at a place called the Cheetah Club. And we become sort of the house band there. The Naz does. Right?

And we're playing every night and we finally get a house. But we... Oh, no. I'm sorry. Free house. We're living in the Chambers Brothers basement in Watts. What? Chambers Brothers had a house in Watts on Crenshaw.

Yeah. We lived in the basement. How'd you hook up with the Chambers Brothers? They were friends of ours, and they just said, hey, look, you guys don't live anywhere. You can have our basement. The Chambers Brothers just happened to be friends of yours. Time. Yeah.

And happened to be friends of Shep. And we hadn't met Shep yet. Friends, meaning they got drugs from Shep. Right. Right. Right. And so finally at some point Jimi Hendrix comes over because Jimi knows the Chambers Brothers. Sure. Now crazy as it sounds

in Phoenix when Jimi played Phoenix we met Jimi. Right. And we came up out of the basement like rats you know and he goes hey I remember you guys from Phoenix. Yeah. Oh, yeah. All right. So anyways, he goes and he meets Shep, buys grass from Shep. Yeah. And he goes, you know, Shep, you're going to get busted. You're a young Jewish guy in LA. You got a lot of money. They're going to figure this out. Yeah.

That you don't have any means of support. Right. You should be a manager. You're Jewish. You should be a manager. That's what Shep said. I know that sounds very stereotypical. No, i know that sounds very stereotypical but that's exactly what it was yeah and he said i know this band that needs a manager yeah he's talking about us so we go over to shep's knock on the door i knock on the door and it's a fog bank it looks like i can't see two feet in front of me for the

smoke yeah and when I clear the smoke there's Jim Morrison sitting on the couch Janis Joplin Jimmy at that hotel the landmark is that what it was

landmark hotel and you know we could make a joint last for a week sure because that's all we had well it wasn't even

that good a pot then the chef goes like this it takes a handful of just hair and I went that's our manager! I love this guy!

So that was it. Never a piece of paper. You know what's interesting? Yeah, he's a great guy. I really like talking to him. But what's interesting about the business in general that I'm always fascinated with in both movies and music is that people, I think, forget how small

a community it was oh yeah then everybody knew everybody right because you know that everyone was sort of around the same place jimmy knew the chambers brothers people would come and try to make it work it did or it didn't but there wasn't there wasn't thousands yes people no and it was a very we really got into this creative the people that were really good people the doors were great people and what'd you learn from them like i mean what did you like what'd you glean from these cats i mean i later on the biggest lesson of my life jimmy died at 27 jim morrison died at 27 and i looked at i said what is what is in common here and it was, was trying to live that image offstage.

You wanted to make it past 27. Right. And I thought, I said, I'm going to have an image even more heavy than theirs. Yeah. And for a long time, I couldn't figure out that I couldn't do both.

I'm going to go out tonight. Well, I got to get a snake. I got to put my makeup on because I don't want to disappoint anybody. Got to a point where I said, that's what killed these guys so i've got it took me till i got sober to realize that i had to play alice cooper and be myself the rest of the time it was but it took you till the 80s pretty much i mean i never was i never quite knew where alice began and that one ended

well how did you now because i drank right through it you know i mean i just but also you were not i mean you know janice was strung out and jimmy i don't know what happened there but he was on everything right yeah and it didn't seem like those were jim morrison took pills like you would eat skittles yeah but it didn't seem like that was your bag you were kind of old school it was beer it was beer beer guy yeah i was at the fact most heavy bands were beer guys right because you could keep drinking it all day yeah yeah and we were terrified of the police oh yeah because we were the first perfect target look at our hair hair's down to our waist right i mean we were the targets in la so that but the idea that you couldn't differentiate or that the line between alice and you was was was blurry like because i you you know, Rollins told me, I had Iggy Pop in here. Yeah.

And did you see them when they came out in 69? I grew up with Iggy. You did? We played with Iggy every weekend. But like, you talk to him and he ain't, he's not Iggy Pop, he's Jim Osterberg. Yeah. And, you know, he's sharp and there's definitely a line. Yeah. Between the two. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I knew Iggy, first time I saw Iggy, we played at a pop festival. 200,000 people in Michigan. Yeah. And somebody said, well, you're going on after the Stooges. And I went, who are the Stooges?

I'd never heard of Iggy and the Stooges. I'd never heard of the MC5. Yeah. Right. You know, I knew Mitch Ryder. Yeah. But I didn't know any of these bands. The next generation.

So I saw Iggy play, and I went, what? Yeah. I said, I got to go on after this guy. I said, okay. So I brought the Alice character up, and everybody in Detroit saw it, and they loved it. Yeah. Because it was not just hard rock, but it was this, too. Yeah.

And now here was a guy to challenge Iggy. Right. In a different way. That Detroit sound, though, is certainly in those guys and in MC5. Absolutely. You know, that drive. I still say it's in our DNA. I mean, born in Detroit, cars, motors, black leather, long hair.

Something. I find it's in what I write all the time. Even the Nuge back in the day. The Nuge, Bob Seger. Bob Seger's great. Brownsville Station. All these bands came out of detroit yeah and if you were a soft rock band you were gonna get killed yeah and something had to do

i think with the motown infusing into it there was a lot of soul mitchell and those guys would come to the show i mean we'd be on stage at the east town or the grandy yeah with the stooges and mc5 and the who yeah you know hanging out that would be and we'd be up there we look down there smoky oh really you know and there's this, and all the Motown guys came down, because they dug the rock and roll. Sure. We would go see them at the Rooster Tail. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. So the Detroit scene, during the riots, if you were a long-haired rock guy, you had a free pass. Right, right. If you were in a rock band, you could go into any black club downtown during the riots, and you were fine. Well, that was the 60s. Yeah. And it was assumed that everyone was on the same team the long hairs

yeah we were not a threat right well so how did like what happens here so like i want to clear something up that so you like frank zappa had a you know he got his own deal through what was it warner who was who gave him it was warner brothers and his and his imprint was called what his label he was bizarre and straight records so straight He was Bizarre and Straight Records. So Straight Records was your first deal, right? And he signed you for three records. Right. Frank would come in at the end of the day, and he said, this is how he put it.

He said, people are not going to believe that you can do these songs live. Yeah. He says, anybody can layer bass, drums, and make it sound. He says, the fact that you can do No Longer Umpire and Tootie Muller and 10 Minutes Before the Worm, which were insanities. He says, the fact that you can do these songs live is what I want to get. 10 Minutes Before the Worm? It was just the weirdest stuff ever.

And we could play it live. You could? Yeah. You had it tight? And we played it great tight live. He said, anybody could do jam stuff yeah he said but you guys play these specific little two-minute songs and don't make mistakes on them and he said the mothers couldn't play this song yeah he said so that's what i want to get on tape is the fact you guys playing live the good part was that we could

do it and you did it yeah we made the record in three days and that's it but that was frank wanted that frank that's how he put it yeah i think we were attacks right off that's what i was wondering yeah yeah like it seemed like the whole thing he liked us he thought we were would be fun to be with the gtos and wild man fisher and you know on his group a little group of freaks right we had a whole different thing we were serious about what we were doing were you a fan of frank's music oh yeah oh you know yeah we're only enough for the money one of the funniest albums of all time absolutely free one of the funniest albums of the you know all the time um yeah we worshiped frank frank was great but we didn't let him he

didn't really influence us though right everybody thought that we were influenced by frank and i said no he was really not any influence on us well that's what like chef sort of like thought that you know it was sort of a setup somehow it felt to me that you know that it was the tax write-off idea but you don't really feel that way i i feel that it was a little bit of each i think that but i think the tax write-off thing came from herbie cohen oh yeah i think the cohen brothers in there were were we were really nothing to them we couldn't make money there there was no potential commercial potential coming out of us so how did alice cooper the name come up we kind of dropped that there's no ouija board

there's no mystical element it was just let's do something let's come up with a name that is like a little old lady that lives down the street that makes cookies for the kids yeah but she may have bodies buried in the basement sure so what name is that the very first name that came out was alice cooper i was trying to betty crocker was kind of in my head but alice cooper sounded like that right and it stuck yeah we kept coming up with names and everybody kept coming back to alice cooper so at the time then, so like you guys, like it wasn't unusual. People were, you know, it's the 60s. So people are outfitting themselves in a big fashion.

So like the spectacle of rock was starting to evolve in a way that involved characters. It was happening, right? Yeah. And you chose to be the bad guy. Chose to be the band that if your parents hated us, we were just fine. So that was the point. Now, was that your idea?

Was Shep involved in that? Just naturally. Shep, I think, Shep caught on to it. He would see why people liked Elvis because parents hated Elvis. Why do people like the Rolling Stones? Because the parents hated the Rolling Stones. My parents weren't crazy about the Rolling Stones when they first saw them. Suddenly the Beatles were fine.

Right, sure. crazy about the Rolling Stones when they first saw them. Suddenly the Beatles were fine. So taking that little nugget, all of a sudden Alice Cooper was going to be this super mega villain that was going to really upset

everything. And Shep's learning too as he goes along with you guys because he's just a former drug dealer turned manager. Yeah, and not only, but it wasn't a day of internet. Right, right. Everything was built up on, if we did a show with a snake, a two-foot snake, the next day it was a 14-foot snake. Sure, sure.

And that worked. And he said he released the chicken, right? Didn't Shep plant the chicken? To this day, he will never tell me that he planted the chicken. Oh. I thought he said he did. But the chicken story was so brilliant because, you know, after I think about it, we're on stage. The very last thing we do is we open up.

It's in Canada? In Canada? In Canada at the Toronto Peace Festival. Yeah. 60,000 people. Yeah. We're on between the doors and John Lennon. Oh, yeah. So we're on the the doors and john lennon oh yeah so we're on the very last piece thing we get up there and we play our pretty are you doing are you doing uh are you dressed up are

you totally we look like something out of barbarella but not eye makeup yet oh yeah but not that one but oh just stuff lots of makeup lots of we really did look like a dress yeah i wouldn't wear a dress but all vinyl with the you know lightning bolts all over it and everything yeah and everybody else was kind of glam right yeah yeah everyone's poking out oh there was no such thing as glam at this point you're not yet we were glam yeah right yeah and at the very last thing we open up pillows yeah and co2 cartridges and it fills the place like a snowstorm. Yeah. And then I look down, and there's a chicken. Now, I didn't bring the chicken.

And I'm going, I'm thinking, okay, I'm kidding the audience. Okay, I got my wallet, got my tickets, got my chicken. I'm ready. Where does this chicken come from? You don't know. When you narrow it down, it had to be shut. Yeah. So I take the chicken.

Being from Detroit, the fact that I'd never been on a farm in my life, it's a bird. It has feathers. It has wings. It should fly. Sure. Logically. So I take it and I loft it into the audience, figuring it'll fly a little bit. Somebody will catch it, take it home.

What a great souvenir. Sure, yeah. Well, it plummets into the audience. Yeah. And the audience tears it to pieces. And that's where it's at. The Peace Festival. The Peace Festival.

And throw the parts back on stage. And now there's bloody chicken parts, all these feathers. And the next day in the paper, Alice Cooper slaughters chicken. Yeah, yeah. Drinks the blood and everything. Right, right. Frank calls me up and he goes, did you kill the chicken on stage last night? And I went, no.

He said, well, don't tell anybody. They love it. He said, it't tell anybody. They love it. He said, it's great press. They love it. Now I'm the geek of all time, right? No, the kicker to the story is the first five rows are all in wheelchairs. Yeah. They put all the people in wheelchairs.

They're the ones that killed the chicken and maimed the chicken. The wheelchair people. The wheelchair people. The ones that probably have a right to have a chip on their shoulder. Or a chicken on their shoulder. Sure. Yeah. And to me, all of it didn't, I kept going.

I didn't really, you know. Yeah. The chip goes, don't. You killed the chicken. Stick to it. Stick to it. Own it. Yeah.

So after this stuff, so you're hanging out with John Lennon too, and that's where you meet John Lennon? John loved what we were doing. Yeah. John and Yoko at this point oh so they saw this of this art that was going on stage so he was under the influence of Yoko and there's real art going on right performance art the doors knew us from when we were little kids yeah basically and they went yeah two more yeah man you know yeah yeah so that we had people that saw what we were doing and they loved the fact that it was doing something different.

And how did you feel intentionally as a showman doing it different, but what was your feelings about the counterculture and the hippie movement? Because you were separate. We were connected to it. We were not hippies. Right. I mean, we were in this for Ferraris and blondes and all the right reasons. We were in the rock and roll business for that.

Yeah. You know, we were not, we could care less about Vietnam. Right. You know, I mean, it was not political. It was just, we were fun. Right. And that was what was missing. Good, dark, weird, fun.

Yeah, that's what was missing in rock and roll right then was fun. But also, like, I imagine that somehow or another another because of the news it was happening in the world that the extreme take that you guys were having resonated because there was a certain pervasive darkness going on yeah we were we were you know called satanic all this there was nothing satanic especially for me i'm coming from a christian background so there's nothing satanic going on up there. It wasn't, it wasn't. There was no upside down crosses. But there's no backstory to it necessarily. It's, it was, that's when I realized it was basically vaudeville.

Right. It was, it was basically whatever you could get away with and make, if they laughed, great. Right. If they were shocked, even better. So, right. So like as it evolved into, you know,

guillotines, mannequins, electric chairs, the snake. Pure vaudeville. Right. You were like, what else can we do? But it was, the great thing was you had to do it with this very straight face, like you really meant it. And to this day, I still do it that way. And when you do that, people I think know they're buying into a character. people I think know they're buying into a character.

Well, I mean, it seems that a lot of your stuff throughout the years spoke specifically to a kind of adolescent isolation and anger. We were outsiders. Gaga's doing the same thing right now. I just saw Gaga the other night in Vegas, and it was all about be yourself, be the right be accepted be you know don't let them bully you you know you're you're you're perfect the way you are and i went yeah i get that we we represented the great disenfranchised right right all the kids that didn't like crosby stills nash and young were our guys and that right and that. And you sort of set the table for what metal became in a lot of ways.

And punk. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. You're pre-punk, right? Very pre-punk. Even actually, without knowing it, I think Iggy Pop was easily the punk master. No, definitely.

There was nobody like that. And it only could have come out of Detroit. Right. Because they were the real deal. Yeah. They're great, man. Those Ashton boys. And it only could have come out of Detroit. Right. Because that was the real, they were the real deal. Yeah, they're great, man. Those Ashton boys. And nobody ever said punk. They just said this.

Well, it didn't really show up for another, like, 69, that first Stooges record. So by 72, the three of those records are done, and then they kind of disappear. And then not until 76. Well, they always give the Ramones that punk. Yeah, but that's 76, 77. The Ramones were feasting on Iggy and the Stooges. Well, I mean, I realize today that, like, you know, I want to be elected and I want to be sedated are pretty close. Very close.

Joey told me that. He did? Yes. He says, you know, I want to be sedated. He says, yeah, elected. Really? Yes. Oh, that's hilarious.

Yeah, because I called him on it oh you know when i heard that i was laughing i was in new york i said i want to be sedated and he goes yeah i know i know that's so nice and he copped to it he seemed like a sweet guy he was one of the coolest guys and you know he says yo you guys all we listen to is you and the stooges and the mc5 and that's how we became the Ramones, you know? You got to it. I was listening today and I'm like, wait a minute. Oh, yeah. And today, this morning, I cross-checked the dates and I want to be elected and I want

to be sedated. And I'm like, hmm. Yeah. And that was, you know, that was Lennon's favorite song. I want to be elected. I want to be elected. He used to come to the office in New York. He'd come in and he'd listen to the acetate.

I want to be elected. And he'd leave. Yeah. He'd come back the next day. Let me hear that again. He'd leave. Shep would listen to the acetate. I want to be elected. And he'd leave. He'd come back the next day. Let me hear that again. He'd leave. Shep would play it for him. Finally, he's leaving the third day and I'm coming in. And he goes, great record.

Oh, yeah. And I said, oh, thank you, man. And he takes about four steps and he goes, Paul would have done it better. And I went, well, yeah. He's Paul. I said, well, of course he would have. And at that point, Lennon was on his own. And Shep, I guess, was the Harry Nelson, John Lennon, and that whole scene.

Yeah. And in L.A., that was the Hollywood Vampires. That's your group? That was our drinking club. We lived in L.A. then. Go to the Rainbow every night, and it would be harry would show up bring john if john was in town keith moon yeah mickey dolan's bernie toppin myself and whoever else showed up to me that's an interesting alignment that like like i don't think i put it together until this morning that i mean

you did a record with bernie toppin yeah and you know like bernie was my best friend really yeah and it's just like you know i in my naivete before, you know, really like looking at the overarching view of your career, like I would never associate you with Elton John. Yeah. But, you know, but so many of the songs are like, even that like the couple albums ago where you played with Bon Jovi's guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That, you know, most of the great Alice Cooper songs are very accessible songs. Yeah. A lot of that has to do with are very accessible songs. Yeah. A lot of that has to do with a guy named Desmond Child. Desmond Child. When that 80s thing happened, we had already been established. Disco Plague was already kind of in motion. You're talking about the ballads? They would only play ballads from rock bands. Kiss, Beth, Aerosmith, Alice Cooper only would play. Dream On. And they would only play ourads from rock bands. Right. Kiss, Beth, Aerosmith, Alice Cooper only would play.

Dream On. And they would only play our ballads. Yeah. So it was necessity. Yes. We still needed to be on the radio. The rest of the album was all rock stuff. Exactly.

Right. So all of a sudden, there's Bon Jovi. Yeah. And there's Motley Crue. Right. And there's Warrant. And there's warrant and all these and coming along right with mtv yeah right exactly what mtv and what are they doing great shows yeah and what do they got great image yeah really swagger yeah you know and all of them are making great records

yeah and i'm listening to these records and I'm going, wow, good. And you'd already had one life. Yeah. And this is sort of like I'm looking at it and going, okay, I get what they're doing and finally somebody's doing big shows. Right.

With production. And rock and roll's fun again. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And Guns N' Roses. Right. I mean, you know,

there's some real swagger on stage now, you know, which was desperately needed. And it still is right now. That's the 80s, the 80s, the Roxy, that whole scene. Right. So everybody had glam that's going on. And these bands, and I kept saying, what is the common denominator

with these songs? And it was Desmond Child. He was the one producing and writing these songs that every one of them I heard on the radio, I thought, what is that? Yeah. You Give Love a Bad Name, great record. Yeah. You know. Right.

And it all came back to him. So I got in touch with him. I said, I want to do the same thing, but I want it darker and sexier, and I want it to be Alice Cooper. And that's when we did Poison. Oh, it was Poison. Biggest hit of our career. I mean, School's Out was a huge hit.

Right. Poison worldwide was even bigger. Yeah. So that was trash. That was the big resurgence. That was kind of me raising my ugly head saying, oh, by the way, guys, you still have to deal with me. Right. And I think the beautiful thing about that period, it seems to me,

is that all those guys that grew up on your music was like, you need any help, Alice? Yeah. They were all accessible and they were fun. They're good guys. Yeah, man. And I was very respectful of how good they were. Bon Jovi and Richie Sambora.

Yeah. Whew. Yeah. Richie could play anything, man. And Ryan Roxy used to play in my buddy's band in Candy. That's right. Yeah. Roxy is one of those guys that glam is in his blood.

He's a good sound, man. I mean, there's like, he played with so many great guitar players and the bass player the winger he went on to do his own thing i don't like that's not my music per se but they all sort of trained with you that's it yeah and uh and and all of them brought their own thing to it yeah but but going back like you know when did you so you you you hit the wall in la and then ended up back in Detroit. Well, this was at the very, very beginning. When we went around, this was pre all that, you know, 68, 69. Yeah. Finally, we got a gig at the Whiskey of Yogo.

And I look up at the thing and it says Alice Cooper and who's Led Zeppelin? Come on. I'm not kidding you. Alice Cooper and Led Zeppelin at the Whiskey. And nobody had ever heard of either one of us. Yeah. So you saw Zeppelin. We played with them.

And Jimmy Page walks in, and I go, that guy was in the Yardbirds. And they were royalty to us. Right. And I went, we open for you. And they said, okay, tomorrow night, we open for you. Really? The very next night, we go to the Cheetah Club, and we finally got two gigs in a row. Alice Cooper and some guy named Pink Floyd.

I don't know what he wears. Come on. I'm not kidding you. So it's the original Floyd with Sid. With Sid. And we got to be very good friends, because we connected up really close. But that was all these bands were all just trying to make it. But those are the rock bands.

It's hard to imagine them playing clubs. And everybody's starving. I mean, literally starving. So then I got Alice Cooper and Pink Floyd in one house. Here's this. And this is about 1968, something like that. Come on. So we're all living in a house.

I get up one morning, and I walk in the kitchen, and there's Sid Barrett, and he's sitting there, and he's still got his velvet clothes. I probably slept in everything. And there's a box of cornflakes in front of him. And he's watching the cornflakes dance. Oh, really? And he's going, oh.

He's looking at me, he goes. You watching this? And I'm going, yeah, okay. And I go to the other room, I go, Sid is watching the cornflakes box the way I would watch Looney Tunes. Yeah. And I went, wow. Yeah.

Yeah, he was already. And it wasn't just a drug. No, he was schizo. He had all kinds of things going on. Yeah. That didn't really show up badly till later. Yeah. But one night we played with him.

He hit one chord at the beginning of the show, got a little shock, and just stood there the rest of the show. Really? Didn't play anything, just stood there. So, I mean, he was... Out there, yeah. But, like, so you have these huge hits, you know, like Killer and School's Out and Billion Dollar Babies do great, right? Those are the big three. We're now the king of the hill.

Right. I'm 18, kills it. The most dangerous thing about us was that we had hit records. Now here's this band that is pretty much hated by not just the press, but by other bands because we were the future. Right. And we were going to make them work now. We were going to make them do a show.

Yeah. And the worst thing that could happen would be us to have a hit record because now you have the Willy Wonka ticket. You're right, right. Nobody can deny you now. And you can sell tickets. And you can sell tickets, and you're generating money. So all the guys up on top of the suits and the record companies are going. That's all they're looking at.

That's all they care about. You don't make money until you make other people money. That's it. Right? And here we were generating money. And now we we don't just have one hit now we have schools out that's huge still huge yeah it's still big you must be getting checks for that song now it's the national anthem right and then after that he said

well lucky lucky and then billion dollar babies comes out goes to number. Now we are there. Yeah. And people have to swallow what we're digging out. Yeah. And of course, now we have money to do production. Right. So now these productions are getting more insane than ever. And it's weird because Billion Dollar Babies, when you listen to it, and you've sort of lived through many different lives

in heavy metal and rock, it's a hard rock record. We were never metal. Right. And it was just sort of like, I mean, the song Hello Hooray is like just, it's a beautiful song. Big song. They're completely accessible.

Sure. And Bob Ezrin was the one that said, your image is going to be so strong, you're going to do hard rock, but we're going to make it very palatable. Right. You know, I read an article. So that was the plan. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Make hit records. We wanted to make hit records. Right. You know, I read an article. So that was the plan? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Make hit records. We wanted to make hit records. Right. I read an article that McCartney did and it was conversations with McCartney. Yeah. And he says he had the radio on and he heard No More Mr. Nice Guy. Yeah.

And he says, it scared me. Really? He said, I realized that rock could be dangerous. Really? Yeah. He says, it literally scared me. That's funny. He said that song was a threat. Really? Yeah. He says, it literally scared me. That's funny. He said, that song was a threat. That's funny.

And I said, well, you know, School's Out was the most subversive song ever. Yeah. You know, blow the school up and everything. It's weird because it's hard for me to imagine, I guess because, you know, we've had so many years of like, just like, you know, no boundaries with music

that at that time was really... It's a little menacing. Oh, yeah, because that record was up against Sinatra. It was up against the Supremes, Simon and Garfunkel. Oh, in 73. In 73. All the really commercial records were out, and all of a sudden, here's this record

that's a total anthem that's saying the joy of blowing the school up. Right, up right yeah yeah and it's a major hit and that's it's interesting because mccartney took it like he listened to it as a songwriter yeah yeah this is a great song right but it was threatening yeah what album was only women bleed on it that was on nightmare i needed a i needed a ballad i needed something that was going to offset all the insanity well i'm a kid so kid, so that's 75, so I'm 12. And that song was everywhere. Yeah.

And it's a heavy-hearted, beautiful song. Like, I listened to it this morning. I'm getting a little choked up. Yeah. Oh, no. 15 different women recorded it and had hits with it. I mean, Tina Turner, Etta James, people like that did that song. Heavy.

You know what I mean? I went, wow, that's pretty cool. But at the time, they were thinking, of course, I was talking about the woman's monthly woman bleed. And I was going, no. I said, I needed this for the nightmare. But they didn't listen to the fucking song then. Right. Yeah.

So I needed the, and I wanted a ballet. Yeah, that was a concept record. The nightmare was. Oh, yeah, pure concept. It was little Steven couldn't wake up out of his nightmare. He could hear his mother calling, but he couldn't wake up. That was the nightmare of not being able to climb out of it. But that's where you start when you're writing a song?

You pick a story? The concept was that. And walk into my nightmare, Bob Ezra, and I said, Bob, here's the idea. I said, now we have to write all these songs that connect into this nightmare. And we have to then produce it on stage as a nightmare. And what were the props for that tour? It was a bed that came out at the very beginning. We had dancers, but we didn't have rock dancers.

We had Broadway dancers. I said, I don't want rock dancers. I want a ballet. I want this, this, this, this. So that when people see this, it's going to be something they've never seen before. It's a Broadway show, except on our terms. Right. And you were thinking Broadway. That's funny. Yeah. So the bed comes out and Alice is on the bed singing,

Welcome to My Nightmare. I hope you like it. And all of a sudden, dancers come up from under the bed because that's where all the monsters live, under the bed. Sure, sure. And they're really good.

And people are just sort of like, what's going on? What the hell is this? And is this post-guillotine, post? Oh, yeah. We didn't, I think in that show, yeah, we did the guillotine. But we had a 14-foot cyclops that came out. That you killed? Yeah.

They actually pretty much killed me. I finally pulled his head off and stabbed him with it. So Iron Maiden sort of, Iron Maiden owes you a thanks too. Oh yeah, absolutely. We were using Eddie way before they were. But there was no bar,

see there was no limits. Yeah, yeah. We had a budget of whatever we wanted. I said, I want David Winters from West Side Story to choreograph it. I want, we got him. Really from West Side Story to choreograph it.

We got him. Really? We got Disney to build the characters. We got everything worked. Yeah. And Shep and I looked at each other and said, I put every penny I have into this production. So he says, so did I. It's better work.

Yeah. But we had Bob Ezrin. Yeah. And that was the billion dollar, or the Welcome to My Nightmare tour? Welcome to My Nightmare. And bam, it worked. Killed. It was just, or the Welcome to My Nightmare tour? Welcome to My Nightmare. And it, bam, it worked. Killed. It was just, we did, we couldn't do enough shows. It sold out months in advance.

It's great. And how did, like, how did you choreograph this stuff? Did you have to hire somebody specifically so you didn't kill yourself? Yeah, that was basically David Winters. Yeah. And then we brought in certain people for special effects. Like um we bring in uh amazing randy yeah the magician oh he had a magician i said how do we do this guillotine so it looks exactly right yeah i want the head to and i want blood to splatter into the audience yeah and if you're wearing white in the front i said you're gonna get covered yeah perfect he figured it out i said how do i get

out of this how do i show up here after they see me here? And we did all that stuff. I just remember, wasn't there some sadness? You used to hang yourself, too. They did the hanging. That didn't work one night. And you almost killed yourself. Well, it's a wire that connects to the back of your thing.

And I said, how do you do this? The stuntman came in, showed me how to do it. Very safe thing. It stops you an inch before. Oh, God. Right? How are you doing that? Every night when that floor dropped in, I was going, oh.

It would just stop right there. Oh, God. Because one night the wire breaks. Oh. And so as soon as I feel this, and I can feel there's more tension than I snap my head back, and it goes up over my chin. Oh, God. If I were Jay Leno, I'd be dead. with the chin you know so but i luckily and i went down and knocked myself out and had a

burn right here but it must have broken in enough time to where it didn't snap your neck didn't snap my neck because i i felt the pressure and let me and but the drop it must have it must have dropped and then broke it couldn't catch me it didn't catch me under here it happened very quick catch me holy shit but you know you can't believe how fast your brain works to save your life yeah boom yeah and this wire that was only this big piano wire now is this big oh you still do it well if we do it yeah you know we we always have it and you're shit-faced on top of it i'm on top but never on stage. No? That was the crazy thing.

When I went in for my alcoholism, right, to the... The first time? To the, yeah, to the... It was up in Cornell University. And the guy says... 77? So he says, how much does Alice... I blame everything on Alice, of course.

He says, how much does Alice drink on stage? Yeah. And I went, well, when I'm playing Alice, I never drink. And he says, well, when drink on stage yeah and I went well when I'm playing Alice I never drink right and he says well when you're doing a movie or like that how much do you drink and I said well I never drink when I he says so the monster's not the problem right the doctor's the problem he says you know 20 the 20 the two hours you're on stage, you're fine. Yeah. The other 22 hours. Yeah. That's the problem. You're the monster. And I went, yes.

I never thought of it. I always thought it was Alice that caused the drinking. It had nothing to do with Alice. Oh, so you were blaming Alice. It was the only time that I wasn't drinking was when I was working. Because you were out of you. Yeah. When I was on stage, I was clear.

Yeah. You know. And when you first have that like before we get into the the recovery like how did you have these relationships with like you know you talk about elvis you talk about sinatra i mean obviously you know nielsen who like who i got into real heavy a couple years ago it was great what a fucking voice yeah yeah and what a writer yeah the guy well he was you know he the Beatles called him the best you know writer in America you can hear a lot of uh in Lennon's solo work you can hear and McCartney's some of the oh

really the honky I mean some of these you know show tune kind of and even the production a little bit yeah but how did you have relationships with Elvis and Frank Sinatra I know Shep told me you and Groucho were buddies Groucho and I were, Groucho came to the show out of curiosity somehow. What year are we talking? Probably, well, let's see, when did he, he was 86 years old. Yeah. It was, it was when we were doing, well, it was always, it was always vaudeville. Didn't matter what era it was in. Right. But he comes to the show and they said, what did you think of Alice Cooper? And he says, Alice is the last hope for vaudeville that's how it got started and I said that's the greatest compliment now Groucho and I

are buddies Shep ends up managing him because from what I understand it was a possible mismanagement going on oh then they did

that live record right yeah yeah yeah and Shep could yeah and Shep never got paid he said I don't want to get paid

he told him right up front he said I don't want to get paid for anything I just want to balance your books yeah don't want to get paid. He told him right up front, he said, I don't want to get paid for anything. I just want to balance your books. Yeah. And I want to help you. Make sure you're okay, yeah. Yeah, make sure you're okay.

So we got to be really good friends. Yeah. He'd call me up two in the morning. Alice, can't sleep. Come on over. Okay. Yeah. So I'd come over.

He'd be in bed. He'd have his beret on and a cigar. You know. And there'd be a chair next to his bed. Yeah. With a six-pack of Budweiser. Uh-huh. And he'd say,

we'd sit and watch movies. Oh, really? Movies. Oh, that's sweet. And this guy would ride up on the horse. Yeah, yeah. Like this, you know,

and he'd say, see that guy? I go, yeah, he says, gay. And he goes, no, he wasn't. I said, that, he never knew if he was. He was telling you all the stories.

He says, see that nurse there? Yeah. Yeah, the Catholic nurse? Yeah. Well, Harpo and Chico both nailed her. And I'm sitting there and I'm going, I could believe this, but I know what the source is right now. Yeah, but he's probably telling the truth though, right? He ended up being...

I got along with Groucho better than I got along with most rock guys. It was so funny because I think one of the Ashton brothers had a relationship with Larry from the Stooges. He used to go out and visit them from their namesake. I saw him at a park bench on Hollywood Boulevard. And we walked by and I went, Larry. He goes, hey, what are you talking about? Hey, it's good to talk to you.

And it was so great because we loved those guys. Yeah, yeah. We worshiped the Bowery Boys. Sure, yeah. loved those guys. Yeah, yeah. You know, we worshiped the Bowery Boys. Sure, yeah. Muggsy. Yeah, yeah. Those guys were our guys. Yeah.

You know. That's sweet. So when we got to meet those guys, that to me was, I think I was the only rock star that was a friar. Oh, really? Because Groucho. He brought you in? And all the guys, you know, everybody had to have tuxedos on, and I'd have all black leather, and I was totally accepted.

Yeah. I still work at the Comedy Store. You're friends with Mule Deer, right? Yeah. Oh, Gary's one of my best buddies. Yeah. I mean, I was there. I was a doorman there back in the 80s doing blow,

and then I cleaned up. I came back. I still work there. It's beautiful. That's great, man. And Gary's one of the, you know, how much fun is that guy? Yeah, he was like, yeah. So you can imagine, you walk into a room.

I've not talked to him. I should talk to Gary Mule, dear. You walk in, you sit down. Yeah. Between Jack Benny and George Burns. At the Friars. Steve Allen. Yeah.

Everybody. And you're Alice Cooper. And you're Alice Cooper. And they treat you just like you're one of the guys. It's show business, buddy. It's the coolest thing in the world. Well, that's the one thing I realized about you is you love show business. I do.

I love these guys. Yeah. I mean, I never tried to make a joke yeah yeah because they were always but you see yourself as a showman the great thing was they all sat there when one guy would walk in everybody would be quiet yeah jonathan winters oh yeah when jonathan winters walked, they'd all go, watch this. Because he was, whoo. I talked to him before he died. I went to his house. Good actor, too. He's great. He was just a really sweet, beautiful guy.

I bought a couple of his paintings. Oh, you did? Yeah. He did surrealistic paintings. Yeah, he was a painter. Yeah, it was a real honor. I drove up, and I got the opportunity to talk to him just a couple of years before he passed, and it was wild to be at his house and we went out to lunch do you remember do you remember the

time that him and robin williams yeah did sort of the the improv off yeah yeah when robin williams put a white flag up oh yeah yeah yeah i can't stay with him yeah yeah yeah they're very similar i talked to both of them before they died and it was very interesting, the similarities and the darkness in their brain. But all right, so, and Frank Sinatra? Sinatra, yeah. I got along with him. I never saw the dark side. Well, no, but how'd you meet him?

How'd you end up having a relationship with Frank Sinatra? It was a baseball game in Vegas, a celebrity baseball game. And our team was Kenny Rogers, the Carpenters, Steve Martin, Albert Brooks, myself, like this. Okay. So, and we're playing the police department or whatever in the afternoon.

And there's this kid trying to get in the game. He's about 12. Yeah. He wants to get in like this. And I finally go over and I said, let him in. I put him on the bench. Yeah. And he sits there.

I gave him my hat. And, oh, this is great. Yeah. I'm walking to the casino that night this guy says hey yeah so what he says the boss wants to see you the boss I go over there and Sinatra yeah and he's sitting there he says Coop first one ever call me Coop uh-huh and he says Coop he said I owe you one I went mr. Sinatra he's okay, Frank, but I have no idea.

He said, that kid was Jilly's son. Yeah. Jilly's son. Jilly was his best friend. Uh-huh. Oh, yeah. He did a solid for him, man. He said, I mean, you did a solid for me.

Uh-huh. Oh, really? And I went, wow. Yeah. I said, well, just a kid wants to see a baseball game. He said, yeah, yeah, but I owe you one. Uh-huh. So we met a couple times. But anyways, two years later. You never took him up on the favor? kid wants to see a baseball game you see yeah yeah but he's like oh you won uh-huh so yeah we

met a couple times and you know but anyways two years later you never took him up on the fanny top well bernie topper and i yeah both get invitations to the hollywood bowl uh-huh for sinatra yeah for sinatra i said oh how cool sinatra remembered that and got us tickets how was it seeing him yeah it was great so we sat there you know we got this great hey yeah boss wants to see both of yous yous so we cut out there's frank he's got a tie undone he's got a martini and a cigarette yeah you know he said i'm gonna do one of your songs tonight get out he did you and me really yeah and i went what and he says yeah good song you know you keep writing them kid i'll keep singing them.

And he said, Bernie, yeah, he said, I'm doing one of Elton's songs. You know, he did your song. Yeah, he did. And that's how he paid me back. That's fucking... And I just went, I said, you can't... I said, that's more than I could ever think of. Yeah, that's beautiful. And he says, I just do songs that are good songs.

He said, it just happened to be yours. Yeah, that's amazing. And then I got to know him better afterwards, you know, in the Friars Club. And I always got along with him. Peter Sellers was another guy. You never saw the dark side of him. Yeah. He was always just, he was Clouseau sometimes. And he was this guy.

Yeah, he was in it. But I never saw the dark side of him. Sure. Well, they didn't see the dark side of you. Yeah, no. They really never did. I mean, it means, like in retrospect, it's something you completely understand. No, they got it. They got the fact that i played the character right they were all actors

they got it right but you didn't quite get it sometimes sometimes i was a little bit yeah who am i today you know but it's amazing that you you know you're sort of like when i saw you conan just like what was in less than a year ago and i and i was watching you you know with the cane and i'm like this guy's a showman. I'm Fred Astaire, man. Yeah, man. Alright, so let's go into the middle because obviously we could talk all day. But when

you do hit the wall with alcohol, because you're just drinking beer, did you not really know that you were... Beer and whiskey at 10 o'clock. Right. Whiskey at 9 o'clock. Whiskey at 8 o'clock. Pretty soon it's whiskey at 8 in the morning. Okay, yeah.

And I... Shaken and everything? No. No. I was Dean Martin. Did you come from it? You come from alcohol? No, no.

No? No. I had no idea that alcohol was running me. I just figured, hey, it's part of the thing. I was never drunk. Yeah. I was always on was never drunk. Yeah.

I was always on this golden buzz. Yeah. Which is dangerous. Sure. Because you don't realize what's going on in your body. Right. And you're not realizing

it takes a lot to feed that buzz. It keeps getting more and more. Pretty soon, that pancreas is, you know, I get up in the morning and throw up blood. Right.

And that was the alarm. For the first time. Yeah. My wife says, let's go. Yeah. And My wife says, let's go. And Shep says, let's go. And they checked you in? I did.

They checked me in. Hardest thing in the world for them. They both cried their eyes out going back to New York. But boy, did I need to be in there. And you didn't withdraw? No. I didn't. It was funny.

The first three days, I felt like my nerves endings were on the outside of my body. Right. If somebody did. Right, right. But I never went through the kind of DTs. Right. If somebody did. Yeah. Right, right, yeah. But I never went through the kind of DTs. Yeah. This. Yeah.

You know. Right. But four days in. Yeah. I started feeling really good. Really? And I started feeling really, really good. And I went, wow.

Yeah. This is kind of really strong. Right. So I was in for a month, over a month, maybe six weeks. And I came out dead straight. Straight for a year, I had one sip of white wine, and I hate white wine. One sip, and that night, I had three bottles hidden in the house. That quick?

That quick. I had no idea I was that much of an alcoholic. Were you doing the thing? You know, the secret meetings? No, no. Never went to AA. I was totally fine. Ended up almost ruining my marriage, ruining my career.

The second time. Yeah. But you did a record in between though, right? You did. No, I did three records that- But when did like From the Inside come out? Was that right after you got out? Oh, yeah.

That was about the hospital. Yeah. When I was finally, you know, the first time when I came out, I said, Bernie. Bernie and my best friend, we're both lyric hospital. Yeah. When I was finally, you know, the first time, when I came out, I said, Bernie, Bernie and my best friend, we're both lyricists. Yeah. And I go,

I got to tell you about these characters in there. Oh, yeah. And when I start telling them about Jackknife Johnny and Millie and Billy and Nurse Rosetta and all these people,

we just started writing. I mean, it was just flowing out of us, you know. Yeah. Might have been the best musical record we ever did. Yeah, you like that record? Yeah. Different producer too out of us, you know. Yeah. Might have been the best musical record we ever did.

Yeah, you like that record? Yeah. Different producer too, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But, you know. Then you relax. When I fell, I was so surprised when I fell back.

I was, couldn't believe I was that much, it was that much of a trigger for me. And clearly it was worse than before. Yeah. Because now, you don't just gradually get drunk again you're right back where you were right and so somehow got into phoenix i finally had enough my parents my wife's parents my wife finally said you know the whole intervention you're going and i said okay well i don't know. No shit. I went to the Camelback Hospital. When I came out, this is one of the great, you know, sky opens up things.

And one of the reasons I became Christian again is I came out and I went right to a bar and I had a Coca-Cola and waited for that craving. Waited for it. Because I'm going to be around alcohol all my life, so I'm going to... You want to deal with it. Sat there, sat there, nothing. Okay, tomorrow's going to be hell. Wake up in the morning, nothing.

No obsession. 35 years later, never once a craving. And the doctor said, that's insane. You are the classic alcoholic. How many meetings do you... I said, I've never been to a meeting. And they said, well, your willpower... I said, I have no willpower. I have zero willpower. I said, God took it away from me. I said, I truly believe it was a miracle as much as parting the Red Sea was God said, it's enough. And I never had another, never fell back,

never had another drink. It never occurred to me to have a drink. Hosting the Grammys, I'm going, oh my gosh, never occurred to me to have a drink and calm down. The obsession was lifted, as they say. Yeah, it was gone. It was totally gone. And even the doctor said,

we have to write that down as a miracle because you should be hiding things all over the house. You should be watched at all times considering your past and everything like that. And I said, it's gone. I said, it's as if it never existed. You could put a drink in front of me and I, what? And I wouldn't even think of drinking that.

Is that weird? No, yeah, it is weird. It's biblical. And I started realizing that that was from a higher source. It was not from a doctor. I wasn't a cured alcoholic. I was a healed alcoholic. And that told me something.

I said, wow, there's something more important than rock and roll to me. So that was it. That was the white light moment. But it didn't mean I had to quit rock and roll. Right, but it was just a moment that you realized that some power greater than you. Had a better plan for me. Yeah. And you were wired with Jesus, so why not let it be Jesus?

Absolutely. And it got to the point where when I did become Christian, I really got into it and realized that there was no such thing as Jesus saying, oh, by the way, you can't be a rock star. He said, be a rock star. He said, be a rock star. Yeah, just be a good person. But represent me. Yeah. And I went, okay.

Do you find, when you look at your records, are there Jesus records? No, but there are references. There's a lot of references in there to anti-Satanic things. Yeah. There's a lot of little references in there to, if you think hell is going to be getting high with Jim Morrison,

you're right where he wants you. Uh-huh, right. There was a great line in Usual Suspects. Yeah. The devil's greatest trick was getting you to believe he doesn't exist. Yeah. When I heard that, I went, oh, that's a song. That's a great song right there.

When I heard that, I went, oh, that's a song. That's a great song right there. But again, it never dissuaded the fact that Alice Cooper was this character that I played. And he was a fun character. Sure. There was never a time that it just my lifestyle changed. And also like that character, however it's interpreted, does let a little steam, a little pressure out of the dark side. Oh, absolutely. It's sort of like the weird evil clown.

I had no problem injecting a little Clouseau into this character. I mean, every once in a while, I want Alice to slip on a banana peel when he's really trying to be arrogant up there. I love that. Right. You know, and let the audience in on it. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

So there's like a tongue in cheek kind of fun. Well, it'd be shock. You can't shock an audience anymore. Right. Audiences are shock proof. Sure. CNN's more shocking than Marilyn Manson, myself and Rob Zombie put together. In the 70s, it was easy to shock an audience.

Now, I get my head cut off every night. You turn on CNN, they're really getting their head cut off. Sure. So how shocking could what we do be? And did you change your life in terms of doing charitable things? Oh, yeah. It just came natural. When that was now part of my life, and now I was following him,

I went, it just came natural. You know, here's a bunch of kids in trouble. Wow, what can we do to help them out? Sure. You know, I'm in such a perfect situation here. I watched a drug deal go down, and it was two 16-year-old kids. One kid's like this, getting the money.

And I said, how does that kid not know he might be a great guitar player right he's never been he's never had a guitar in his hand the other kid might be the best drummer in town and i got the idea opening a place where any teenager could come in and learn guitar bass drums for free all for free all we had to do was raise the money and and so that's for the last 20 years i do that yeah you know and we get 100 kids a day in there oh yeah and some of them are cutters some of them are gang related and but here's a here's a 16 year old kid now just playing guitar instead of selling meth it works huh so his whole life changes you know that's sweet and and but it

really is a cool thing to do it's and it's fun watching these kids develop into good players. Sure. You know. And Wayne Kramer does a thing, too, another ex-junkie and Detroit guy. Yeah, you know what? He does the guitars for jails. You find that the guys that have gone through it and have been on that side and survived it always try to find a way to help kids out. Yeah, and you help other rock guys too, right?

Well, if they, you know, I have people always come to me and they say, you got to call my brother because he's an alcoholic. And I go, I can't do that. Yeah. If he calls me, he's halfway home. That means he's admitting I got a problem. Had some pretty big stars call up at 3 in the morning and say, hey, where do I go?

Yeah. You know, and I go, hey, where do I go? Yeah. You know, and I go, okay, you're halfway home. Yeah. If I had to call you, it's just another finger wagging in your face. Of course. And you could bite it off. Yeah, yeah. Attraction rather than promotion.

But if you call me, you're saying, I'm at the bottom of the rung. Uh-huh. I need help. Okay, now I can direct you somewhere. Sure. You know? And it's public knowledge that you helped Mustaine out, Dave Mustaine, right? Dave Mustaine.

I just saw Dave, and we played in Budapest together. He's a hell of a player. And he looks great, man. Yeah. He looks great, but he had a real problem. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

And I just finally just, back of the neck, gruff of the neck. Yeah? Come here. Yeah. But, you know, the guys that had the worst problems are the guys that usually end up being the most charitable because they they're thankful that they're not there anymore and now they go well how can i help some other kid not to get to that place right so your last fucked up record was the dada record dada was there was the the the blank the blackout period records which my fans always say are my

best records really yeah they love those records which one like a zipper catches skin uh special forces yeah uh dada dada dada was a little more control flush the fashion yeah yeah you know well that's got a hit on it a lot of people did it hits on it yeah but i cannot remember writing you really can't that stuff no i don't remember recording it dada's trippy dude it was but that was bob ezra though bob was i was fairly okay he knew you yeah yeah and we pretty much knew what we were doing on that record but zipper catch his skin yeah yeah god and now i listen to it and i go, wow, this song is great. Good. So some part of you was still working.

Some part of me was working. Alice was still working. Yeah, I mean, I listen to the lyrics and I go, there was a song called Zorro's Ascent. Yeah, yeah. And it says, I donned the cape, now I'm Don Diego. You know, and I went,

Don, Don, oh, that's really good. So you can appreciate what you did in another time zone my subconscious was writing pretty good lyrics uh so but then like i guess so you took three years off and then you can't and then trash turned everything around again yeah and a whole new generation of of metal guys hard rock guys and a lot of guys that you influenced came to your sort of side and you know and you made this great record. Yeah, and I think at this point I was trying to prove the fact that I was still in the game and I was still something to be dealt with.

And you could still sing and still write songs. I mean, that's what you did. And now I was working with people that were really good and I was on a roll up. I was rolling up. You're working with a new kind of guitar player. Yeah. Like the actual style of guitar playing changed

in those three years almost that you were gone. These guitar players were good guitar players, man. Yeah. I mean, they weren't just schlock players. They were good. Yeah. And I was surrounding myself with all the best people. I was always around the very,

when I picked a guitar player, it was because he was the best guy at that. Sure. Kane Roberts. Yeah. And Kip Winger. Kip Winger was the best guy at that. Sure. Kane Roberts. Yeah. And Kip Winger. Kip Winger was the best bass player around. Yeah, yeah.

And they all wanted to play with you. That was it. And you kept working. You keep working. Well, that's the thing. You keep working. And then I listen to Welcome to My Nightmare, the second one.

And that's another one of these. It's the funniest record I ever made. It's a good record, man. But it's comedy. It's all comedy. Yeah. There's country. You got Vince Gill on there. Vince Gill is's comedy. It's all comedy. Yeah. There's country. You got Vince Gill on there.

Vince Gill is on it. Laying it out. That solo he lays out on that song, it's like, holy shit. When I brought that into my band, they listened to it and they all pointed to each other. You play it. No, they couldn't. Right. He's an amazing guitar player.

I just handed him a Telecaster and I say, here. Yeah. Pretend like you're in a rock band. No problem. That guy just, unbelievable. We had Patterson Hood on there too, right? From the Drive-By Trucker. Everyone's on that record. Yeah. Pretend like you're in a rock band. No problem. That guy just, unbelievable. We had like Patterson Hood on there too, right? From the Drive-By Trucker. Everyone's on that record.

Yeah. But I always look at it as like they're honored to work with you. It's nice to be in that position. Yeah. And same with this one. You've got some good guest stars on Panhard. Larry Mullins Jr. Paranormal.

Paranormal was one of those things where Bob said. The drummer for U2. Yeah. I started out saying, let's not do a concept album. Right. Let's just not do one. Let's do 13 great records.

Yeah. Great rock songs. Yeah. That you can't deny. Yeah. Okay. We wrote the whole thing, and Bob says,

how about this? Yeah. Change the whole bottom of the sound. I said, what do you mean? Larry Mullins Jr. on drums. And I went, wow. Would he do it? He goes, big fan. He says, you know, you two were all big fans of yours, you on drums and I went wow would he do it he goes big fan he says you know

you two were all big fans of yours you know and I went if he'd do it that would be amazing yeah you know

and then you know we did that one song I've Fallen in Love and I Can't Get Up yeah and it was a Texas

Roadhouse boogie song and I went we went Billy Gibbons there was no doubt and I sent it to him you know

and he goes I got the flu right now but this song makes me feel better yeah you can feel it you can hear his riff he did

oh it was there was no two ways about who had to play on that song yeah you know and he sent it back did two takes and it killed it

just killed it and you've worked with guys who work with Lou Reed you work with some Swedish guys. Wagner and Hunter were probably two best guitar players on the planet right then. And I had both of them in my band. Yeah. They just love playing with you.

All right. It's a great record. I'm happy you're still working. You seem fucking healthy as hell. Can't be. I'll be 70 next year. And I'm the only one not breathing hard on stage. Wow.

I mean, it's just, and the show is physically as hard as Nightmare. Do you do anything to stay in shape? No. All right. Now, one thing before you go. Can you tell me what's so great about golf in a few sentences? Okay. Golf is an addiction.

I get it. And I'm feeding an addiction. Okay. And I understand it. But it's also a meditation somehow. The guys who love it, there's a relationship that's almost zen with the thing. It is. Lou Reed.

Uh-huh. Okay. I lived with Lou Reed at the Chelsea Hotel in the worst of times. You did? Yes. Those times in New York where you walk by. The Andy Warhol times? Yeah.

And you see those guys with just their key in the door because they couldn't get it open. So you open the door and push them in. Yeah. Close. Those times. And Lou Reed, the last time I saw Lou Reed, he says, hey, Alice. Yeah. Hey, man.

How you doing? Good. Good. He says, I'm pushing the ball to the right. He said, what? And I'm, you know, I did like a triple take. And I went, you play golf? And he goes, oh, yeah.

I play golf every day. I said, I love it, man. I I went, you play golf? And he goes, oh, yeah. I play golf every night. I said, I love it, man. I'm addicted to it. Really? Dylan plays golf. Really? Neil Young plays golf. Uh-huh.

Steven Stills, Iggy Pop, Roger Waters, big golfer. So what is it? They all got in common. Okay. I get it. Right. They were all guys that survived the drugs and the drinks and drinking thing and and all of them got addicted to golf i read a thing one time that

didn't surprise me fred astaire was talking about wc fields one time yeah in the prime of their career yeah he said what is this golf thing yeah and wc come on out fred astaire hit one ball and was addicted and he says it almost ruined my career first time it's always free he hit it down the middle yeah and it felt so good to watch that ball just disappear down the middle that little click and he says he started missing rehearsals oh he couldn't get off with you know and he and pretty soon he said i had to stop playing because i was literally my career was suffering from it. Wow. It gets so addictive.

If you hit six good shots, it's like taking six good hits. And you'll chase it all day. All right, I'm sold. I'm going to try it. I'm going to try it. And I also wanted to say sorry for your loss with Glenn Campbell. Glenn was, you know, he could hang with the Rat Pack or the Sex Pistols. But you guys were tight.

Oh, we were tight. Yeah. We had a lot in common. We were both, you know, we were both alcoholics that weren't alcoholics anymore. We were both Christians. Yeah. His guitar playing was. It's great.

He was another Vince Gill guy. Yeah, great. Beyond anybody. And Jerry Reed, too, is another one of those guys. Another guy. But yeah, no, Glenn was, I watched that documentary. It was just heartbreaking. And funny as hell.

Yeah, yeah. Funny as hell. And our families grew up together. Our kids grew up together. It was definitely time, though, huh? Yeah. It was merciful. He got to a point where he couldn't remember anything.

And it was just, that disease is so vicious. Alzheimer's is terrible. Because you just go away and you can't, pretty soon you just disappear. Yeah, yeah. Alzheimer's is terrible. Because you just go away and pretty soon you just disappear. Yeah, yeah. It's terrible. Well, God damn it. I mean, not to use that. It was great talking to you.

It's all right. It's Father Marin. You're the other Father Marin. Good, good. It was real fun, and I'm glad you're doing well. Well, you've got to come to the show tonight. Where is it? We're at the Greek Theater.

Really? Yeah, it's us and Deep Purple and Edgar Winner. Edgar Winner. Edgar Winner. What time does that start? I think we're on at 8. All right. Maybe I'm supposed to do comedy.

Maybe I'll do it. Oh, if you have a show. No, I understand. It's great, man. And I've got family in Phoenix. So I'm out there a lot. My ex-wife is from there, but my brother lives there. Oh, great.

So I used to hike up camelback i used to when i was i live right off of camelback then it was a camelback mountain maybe maybe you get well i'd just annoy you if i went on the golf no no no no well i'll get you all right i'll get you addicted don't worry all right buddy thanks man what what lou reed was a golfer what what a great conversation i uh i really enjoyed it and i hope you did as well i'll talk to you when i get home okay i hope you're hanging in and uh i don't have a guitar. It's just quick improv. Mouth trumpet. Boomer lives! We'll see you next time. Mozzarella balls and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No, but moose head? Yes, because that's alcohol and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials.

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