WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 841 - Jay Baruchel

Episode Date: August 27, 2017

Actor Jay Baruchel takes the trip down from Canada to talk with Marc about life, acting and the Great White North. Jay explains what it was like being raised in a family that was righteously engaged in politics while also beset by criminal activity and alcoholism. He also tells Marc why it's important to him to see Canadian culture reflected in film, which is one of the reasons he wrote and directed the new movie Goon: Last of the Enforcers. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls. Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now.

Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction.

Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck nicks what's happening this is uh wtf it's my podcast my name is mark maron thank you for listening thank you for joining my heart goes out to everybody out there in texas and houston texas parts of uh My name is Mark Maron. Thank you for listening. Thank you for joining. My heart goes out to everybody out there in Texas, in Houston, Texas, parts of all around Houston, a little bit of Louisiana. God damn, man, you're going through hell. It's a lot of fucking water and it's a really fucking horrible event that's happening there. And I hope if you hear me now that you're safe.

And I somehow, I mean, I imagine you might be stranded or you're just sitting there. I guess it's very hard to get in and deal with this. And it doesn't look like it's going to stop anytime soon. It's just awful. I'm sorry you're going through that. If anybody is going through that who's listening to me, I'll try to entertain you a little bit. I'll try to take your mind off it i mean if you're just sitting there

you know godspeed and i hope that uh you're getting the help you need to get if you're listening to this and i hope that if you can help you are helping uh it's a natural disaster um and it's uh it's a it's a big one so that said that said, you know, when I really think about, you know, how random and how horrible these things can just come out of nowhere. Well, I mean, it comes out of somewhere. But I don't experience enough gratitude in my life. And I know things are awful for a lot of people. And culturally, things are disintegrating, perhaps permanently. But I got to find some room for gratitude because I can lose my mind a little bit.

And I guess I should let you in on something. It's not that big a deal, but I'm getting off nicotine again and it's really fucked up i've done it before a few times i mean if you've been listening to this show for years you remember maybe seven years ago i did it and i interviewed dane cook and that was the disaster sarah the painter seems to think i did it a few years ago i don't remember anymore i got off him because i got nervous i got like it just wasn't the shit's just not working anymore. It's the biggest disappointment about having an addiction that there comes a day where you're like, ah, this is just exhausting. My system's overworking.

My organs are tired. It's not having the desired effect anymore. That mixture of caffeine and nicotine just making me nauseous. I think that's what it is. Anyways, if I seem edgy or I seem tense, you know, I got off the shit yesterday. It was a pretty fucked up day yesterday. Again, I'm not, you know, on top of my house looking at miles of water. But I am standing on top of my house looking at miles of water, but I am standing on top of my head

trying to get out. I just was like, I lost it by the end of the day. Like the cravings come, and some of you know this when you quit something, you feel that like, oh, this is when I do it. This is when I do it. Oh, this is when I do it. And you're just like, no, no, no. And eventually that party, the, come on, man, this is when I do it. No, we i do it and you're just like no no no and eventually that party the come on man this is when i do it no this we're not doing it no come on this is it this is where we feel better nope not doing it no right now right now you fuck just give it to me what the fuck i will shred your brain i will fucking just blow up everything you're thinking, mix it all up, and just make you a furious babbling idiot with moments of brilliance. I will throw in moments of brilliance, but a furious babbling idiot if you don't fucking give us the shit that we need just to feel better.

No, we're not doing it. We're not doing it. Oh, you fucking fuck. We're not. We're just not. Can we just not? Can we just get through it? Fuck.

We're not. We're just not. Can we just not? Can we just get through it? I'm going to burn everything fucking down in your brain. And eventually, by the end of the fucking day, you're going to dump it on somebody. You're going to fucking dump it on somebody because you're going to want it out of you. It'll be like an exorcism. So if you don't feed me my shit, I'm going to fucking just explode something in your fucking life that you're not going to be able to hold it

back i'm not doing it this is not a negotiation all right all right fine talk to you at the end of the day sure enough i uh i told sarah the painter i told my girlfriend i'm like you can't come over you gotta stay out because i don't know what's gonna happen yeah i don't know what's gonna come out of me you know it's just it's just you got it just trust me on that stay away because it's gonna want to unload the thing the thing's gonna want to unload the hunger is gonna want to unload because it's not getting fed like i have moments where i feel all right it's like just come on what's the moments where I feel all right. It's like, just come on.

What's the big deal, man? What's the big deal? Just give it, just let's have one. Just one, man. Why don't you just, why don't you just reduce it? Why don't you just pull back a little?

You know, let's just not have as many. Come on. And this is what I'm dealing with. Oh, this is what I'm dealing with oh this is what i'm dealing with all day god just give me one all right see when i focus i can do stuff you know did i mention jay baruchel is on the show i don't think i did i don't think i did jay baruchel he wrote and directed the new movie goon last of the enforcers Enforcers, which comes out Friday, September 1st. You might know him from A Million Dollar Baby, Knocked Up, Tropic Thunder, which was great.

Canadian actor. I liked the guy. Always liked the guy. Always liked his acting. The Goon movie was good. I don't know much about hockey. I'll talk to him about that. But he's coming up here in a second.

So I was on vacation. I'm back. I'm back in much about hockey. I'll talk to him about that. But he's coming up here in a second. So I was on vacation. I'm back. I'm back in L.A. It's hot. Again, it's hot, but it's not covered in water, which is horrifying. Whatever. We need water sometimes. But you know what I'm saying.

I was in New Mexico. And I got to tell you, the last few days were just great. We went up north to Abiquiu, which is where Georgia O'Keeffe had her house and her studio. And I like O'Keeffe, and I like her aesthetic. I like her paintings. I didn't know much about her, but I'll tell you, man, we've been in New Mexico like six days, and it wasn't until we drove up north out of Santa Fe towards Abiquiu that I really felt like, all right, now this is it. This is fucking beautiful. I mean, I like Santa Fe.

I like Albuquerque. I like northern New Mexico. But I'd not been up to Abiquiu, and I was like, this is where it's at. It just moved me. And we took a tour of O'Keeffe's house and it was just beautiful. The place is kept exactly how she left it. And you go, you move through her house and you move through some of her choices. Aesthetically, you see, you know, her, her teapots and her coffee maker and her table. And you just see how she lived her life and the tour guide was good he was informative but it

wasn't until we got out to the studio where she just had this huge window that looked out over this valley and mountains and abacue and and just the whole feeling of the place i've never really felt somebody in a room as much as i felt that and i got choked up looking out of the window of Georgia O'Keeffe's studio. And I mean, I'm emotional and I cry at weird times and probably more than I should. And then I don't cry when I should. But nonetheless, I'm very impressed with Georgia O'Keeffe,

but I don't have that much of a connection with her. I know her work, but she's not like, you know. I mean, she's a presence, but in my life, but you know what I mean. I'm not that attached. So I was surprised that I was moved to that amount of emotion. It just speaks to the power of that country,

the power of that artist. It was pretty amazing, man. It was pretty amazing. And the undercurrent of my entire trip was this weird bump in my mouth that I was pretty sure was mouth cancer which obviously led to me quitting nicotine today because not along with doing nicotine lozenges sometimes I do a little dip occasionally not much really not much but I was like of course I'm the guy that gets the mouth cancer maybe I do I don't know but nonetheless why is it that every time I go on vacation, there has to be this undercurrent of complete panic? I think, and this is when I go

with Sarah the Painter, personally, I don't know. I don't know who you are, but I know I'm sort of emotionally complicated. I may be predictable and you may get me, but sometimes I play tricks on myself and it seems that my preoccupation with whatever was in my mouth was a way of avoiding intimacy and staying out of the present. Until I got to Abiquiu and stood in Georgia O'Keeffe's studio and looked out her window.

Everything became much bigger than me. Thank God. Right? Right. Let's talk to Jay Baruchel. It's very hard for me not to pronounce it Baruchel. I gotta talk to him about that. As I said before, he wrote and directed the new movie Goon,

Last of the Enforcers, which comes out Friday, September 1st. And it was really, this is a great talk. It was great talking to this guy. I hope you enjoy it. And I hope it takes you away from anything that you want to be taken away from. It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats.

Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials.

Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Calgary is a city built by innovators. Innovation is in the city's DNA. And it's with this pedigree that bright minds and future thinking problem solvers are tackling some of the world's greatest challenges from right here in Calgary.

From cleaner energy, safe and secure food, efficient movement of goods and people, and better health solutions, Calgary's visionaries are turning heads around the globe, across all sectors, each and every day. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look how at calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com. How do you pronounce your last name right? I say, now there is no right, because technically right would be the Hebrew pronunciation, but I say Beruchel. Beruchel. Isn't that what most people say? Some people go Beruchel. I get Beruchel.

Beruchel. Very few. Very seldom. Beruchel. That's how it should be said. When you do the junket in Israel. That's exactly right. Beruchel. The Israelis don't believe that that's actually my do the junket in Israel. That's exactly right. Baruch El.

The Israelis don't believe that that's actually my last name. Really? Well, because it's fucking super full on. Yeah, no, yeah. It's usually, that's like the Jewish version of a name. A Filipina name. Right, right. Rosario Crucifixia. Yeah, like my Hebrew name, it's similar.

Like, my name is Mark Maron, but then when you go get your hebrew name it's mikhail david ruben borough you know it's like a whole legacy of uh my friend richard had the worst one because there's nothing hebrew about richard so in hebrew his hebrew name was uh they just make them up it's like it's close sounds like it but wait are you jewish half well which half uh my dad my dad my dad was so technically i'm nothing uh because in judaism it's what i know it's what your mom is and in catholicism it's what your dad is right and the two cancel each other out for me so well that's good that's freedom i suppose so or or crippling guilt yeah yeah did you get that though oh i have a really shitty joke that i've been telling

since i was a teenager that oh good well that's a good setup boy i say let's get on with it it's uh there's two very different very potent forms of guilt one makes me feel guilty for masturbating the other for not returning phone calls oh good good yeah boy did you do stand-up or you just you just wrote that one day and you're like just full of chutzpah yeah this is a keeper yes this is how it sounded all up pretty well but uh but like uh there a lot of times it took me a while to realize that there is a huge uh canadian jewish community big time yeah and old it's old school too yeah no it is it's it's uh been there since uh technically in montreal and Toronto since, like, yeah, end of the 19th century.

Right. When there's trade, there's Jews. It's like, what? We can make money on fur? And here's, like, a morbid statistic is slightly morbid, which is, like, yeah, Montreal, probably not so much anymore. But for a long time, Montreal, world's third highest population of holocaust survivors that's because that was one of the places they went yep yeah i don't know israel's hot that's it that's it get on this boat that's exactly right it must be and our cousins are in new york yeah that's the idea so there's yeah

the port montreal port now ellis island that's exactly right. No, those are the three options. Right. Wow, that's interesting. But they've been there since, oh, so you're saying since that or before that? I think before that as well. Usually when there's fur trading and there's money to be made through exchange. Well, it's like when you're talking about Jewish diaspora, which one? There's fucking thousands of them because for

spanish inquisition yeah the purge but you know sometimes they just left yeah and spanish so and and and so on my dad's side the the baruch shells we are sephardic so we are not of that sort of traditional what most people that are european yeah no not at all no we we were from uh uh italy event originally yeah and then chased out of Italy and settled in Algeria and Palestine. Oh, really? And Egypt. And we were in Alexandria, Egypt for generations, which used to be the world capital of Sephardic Jews.

Wow, you did the homework. You did the research. I'm just a huge history nerd. This was passed down to you. Alexandria, Egypt. Yep. That's where you guys hung out. That's right. That's right.

That's right. Yeah. Up until, what's his face? Nasser. Yeah. Oh, that long? Yeah. Yeah.

And the story in our family was that, yeah, one day, you know, we'd been there for God knows how long. And then one day we were just sort of told, you owe nothing. You're not welcome here. Get the hell out. Yeah. Well, sadly, I'm waiting for that day here so i'm hoping boy yeah i know tell me about it so i'm like there's all these things it's so funny i've been talking about it on stage like there were things like i always

liked going to canada but there was a there's a moment as an american the first time you go to toronto or montreal where you're like well it's kind of like America, but there's no edge to it. It's a little slow. It's kind of like there's no anxiety. There's no panic. It's just day-to-day life. You know, there was this shot, you know, when you first go to Montreal or Toronto,

you're like, why is that guy just sitting outside on a bench at 1030? What kind of crate? There are people walking? You know, but now I'm sort of like, sounds good. Sounds relaxing. Yeah, it is. although that's the thing a lot of our our um our political issues and all of our sort of big debates don't make it down here so this sort of narrative of canada as the big pastoral huge version of minnesota and vermont

yeah which it is in a large in a lot of way but it also you don't know how the sausage gets made and we have our own issues no i'm sure we're divisive about enough stuff yeah especially in montreal right yes and and and also there's like our our big shame yeah the big cross to bear in canada is our relationship with our native community right which um i'm constantly amazed that that doesn't seem to be a narrative down here at all america seems to have made peace with the fact that i don't know i don't know if they've made peace i think years ago they're like we gave them the casinos so they're they they're somehow they so it's okay so everything's fine they got money coming back in how much do they need no it's a

it's a it's a heinous uh part of history it is. But as a national storyline, yeah, it should be more. That's all I'm, you know, and it's because it's all-consuming in Canada. It's a part of our narrative. It's in the headlines every single day. There's a multi-million dollar inquiry happening right now into missing and murdered indigenous women. Because, like, if you're born native and female in Canada, you're six times more likely to die a violent death. Really? Yeah.

At the hands of who? Well, take pick yeah there's there's a yeah and and there's a massive cultural disconnect and canada finally we're owning up to it and doing what needs to be done at least to explore and try to figure out how we can make stuff better for so long though i suspect we didn't yeah because it went against our superiority thing of thinking we're better than America. Right. And this was the sort of dirty little secret that didn't dovetail with the rest of our branding as the sort of liberal north. But how much of, like, how integrated is that community? Do they still, you know, are there still large populations throughout?

Yeah. Were they subjugated to ghettoization and reservations? Yeah, that's precisely right. So there's a great deal of them live in reservations, which is, you know, listen, I'm not from that community, so I can't speak to it. And I know people from those communities who prefer living there than they would in the cities. speak to it and i know people from those communities who prefer living there than they would in the cities um but also there are cities like winnipeg where you have a marginalized ghettoized population of natives or in the urban cities in the urban community and and it's like it's this my friend put it perfectly my friend jacob tierney put it to me 10 years ago he said if white people were

dying at the rate that natives are dying there would be a billion dollar inquest into figuring out what the hell is wrong sure of course yeah yeah it's sort of like now they're going to do a uh a sort of national emergency over the opioid epidemic uh not unlike the crack epidemic right it's funny how that happens yeah it's a yeah it's a it's it's fighting good fight is a, is a tough, tough thing. They don't make it easy nowadays. No, it's fucking scary. But everybody seems to love your prime minister. I don't know him.

But I, I feel like, you know, like in my fantasies, if, you know, things got so awful here that I, I, like he, you know, publicly he presents a persona like, I could probably call that guy. Like, you know, now that I know Jay. That's right. That's exactly it yeah um no he's i'm i'm a i'm an avowed fan and and i come by it honestly i i i have voted liberal party pretty much since i was 18 yeah my parents did my grandparents did and my mom was a huge fan of his father and um and i think his wife was his father's wife was pretty uh yes she was a she was she got out she got into some trouble she did uh maggie with the

rolling stones mick jagger yeah and then and then and then pierre dated uh went to the oscars i think with barbara streisand did he now is maggie his mom yep no kidding is she still around i don't know actually i'm not sure the old man's gone, right? Yes, he is. He passed away. Yeah, and that was a big, sad sort of national day of mourning, because that's our longest serving prime minister. He had three terms for us.

I remember not knowing anything about politics, but knowing him. Yeah, he was one of these guys. He was erudite and dressed super well and very charismatic and just like and captured that sort of 60s, 70s kind of renaissance man zeitgeist. Sure, he was a groovy guy. Yeah, exactly. You know, like back when

the New York intelligentsia meant something. That's... When, you know, most of culture was dictated by what was going on on the Dick Cavett show. That's exactly...

Precisely. And then he rolls into the Oscars wearing sandals and no socks like the guy was a gangster at least he didn't wear a canadian tuxedo which i do occasionally yeah we all have to every once in a while so now you live there still i do and that's a choice yep do you i mean you must have been here for a while i mean i've been coming down here on and off since i was never lived here i i know that's not true. I've done stints.

I've done stints, but it was never home. Yeah. Simple as that. You got brothers and sisters? One little sister. Oh, you got a little sister. And what are your parents, what's their business? What's their racket?

Well, my dad passed in 04. Sorry, buddy. Oh, thank you. But before he passed, he got most of this out of his system before I was born. But my dad was a big like he was a hood. He was a drug dealer. And yeah, yeah. And went to prison the whole nine yards. most part you know as much as he could but all the all of the friends that he'd bring over like all the adults in my house were all guys that are like no longer in canada or if they're in canada they're like in cemeteries well see that like for me like but i've i've learned better but there's there's part of me that you know uh kind of uh stereotypically goes like a jewish drug dealer you know like there's i have that moment right like, you know, there's Jewish gangsters. Jews do a lot of things.

Yeah. Meyer Lansky. Business is business. Meyer Lansky would have something to say, buddy. Help design the American mob. Yeah, no shit. Sure. Long East woman.

There's a long history of Jewish criminals. Big time. And my dad, although my dad really, he didn't run with. Henry Kissinger, another famous Jewishish criminal jewish or woody allen famous jewish criminal um but my my father ran with the west end gang which is an irish gang in in the west side of the city and um and it all came from my dad had the fight in him he moved there his family moved to canada when he was like four years old and they didn't move from egypt uh from france they had gone from egypt to france to montreal and they didn't move to one of the great jewish communities in montreal they moved to a very french neighborhood where uh they were

the only jews on the block is that where he met your mom no mom he met mom at a nightclub fucking hell and then they they had dated for six weeks and then someone dared them to get married and they fucked off to montego bay jamaica and got married and then six months after that mom's visiting at prison oh my god she was this like country girl and she had only been in the city for a year or two and then all of a sudden she's like the drug dealer's wife and she stayed together they stayed together so roof over our head and food in my belly and um no kidding so you so he did a stint in the can yeah and then he tried to go legit and sold microchips um but legit microchips yes as as legit as an ex drug dealer the microchip business going right from drugs to microchips already suspect he'd sell anything he'd said

that was my dad because like and then on weekends, they would sell antiques, restore and sell antiques. My father was just a chaser. And I grew up in a real haggle culture. And my dad could just, he would claim he could sell sand to an Arab, was his term. Yeah. So he was in this French-Canadian neighborhood. Yeah. And that's where he sort of took to the streets.

Yeah. And started fighting. He started dealing at 13 or 14. What? First pot, then cocaine. Okay. And cocaine's where he made and lost most of his money. In the 70s, 80s?

Yeah. And he was like the guy with all the party favors. And mom was the model on his arm. And they just cut the line and went to the nightclub. Oh. Disco assholes. So he probably knew Maggie Trudeudeau they definitely crossed paths i hear all these i would get these snapshot anecdotes from like 70s coke montreal discos of like tony bennett and leslie nielsen coming through and all this weird i remember your dad that kind of stuff yeah and

he was a character. That's it. And then they fucked off to Florida, Tallahassee, Florida for a year. Tallahassee of all places. Yeah. Not even beach or nice. It was close to Columbia. Oh. Before the shit went down.

And literally the first pet that I grew up with, our German Shepherd when I was a kid, her name was Coca. Yeah. Come on. I swear to God. He was really in. I swear to God. was really in i swear not hiding much both of them both of them no difference is is and my namesake who i'm fucking

named after just speaks to this awful life that they were living but um because mom when she found out she was pregnant that day on cold turkey nothing hadn't done anything and not since didn't look back since oh she stopped doing right away drinking and booze she was like this is it yeah uh my my father did not um and and i'm jay but my real jay's for me is short for jonathan my name is jonathan and i asked mom who am i am i named after somebody yeah and i might as well not be it's pretty fucking arbitrary who i'm named after do you remember a TV show with Robert Wagner called Heart to Heart? Yeah, sure.

And his character's name was Jonathan Hart. No. That's who you're named after? And then it was the two of them. They were like a couple. What was her name? They're like Private Eyes or something? Yeah, Private Eyes, yeah.

I kind of remember that. So that's who I'm named after is Jonathan fucking Hart. A character on a TV show. That Robert Wagner played for, what, two seasons? Yeah. That's bizarre. it's awful and had i been a girl i'd have been jazz and my parents hate jazz music so put that yeah so that's what your sister's name is no thank god she's taylor taylor she got normal all right well that's pretty normal yeah so so did he die of uh natural causes no he had an overdose of 49 oh really of what

uh well in the uh his his sort of nightly cocktail would be uh do you know dilaudid's yeah oh wow so he was yeah dilaudid's and vodka and he would like he'd he'd do a pint of vodka every night so he was gone yeah oh man so that that's a that disease uh alcoholism addiction it's a big one and 49 is young and it's something i know a lot about and and i have very strong and specific opinions about it um and are you lucky you didn't get it i did i am and and i had it was 50 50 because um so dad's family are all drunks really Really? Mom's family, strangely, the Irish side of me, no one is this really crippling alcohol allergy that my mom has, my grandmother had. So they're companions to drunks.

Yes. You've got some of the codependent Irish. That's it. And I had a 50% chance of being allergic to liquor or an alcoholic. And I, thank God, inherited mom's terrible tolerance. And do you find yourself dating troubled people? Fuck. Jesus Christ. I mean, yeah, no more than anyone else, I suspect.

Yeah, all right. Well, no, I mean, I know it because I'm sober 18 years. I got a mazel tov. Thank you. Just the other day. That's amazing. But, you know, the mindset of it of it you know how you're brought up and what you grow you know your part of your brain looks to recreate that every turn and it's hard

to it's hard to shake it because it feels right yeah and a lot of times when you come from crazy yeah you're gonna find yourself in crazy yeah it for if only for familiarity's sake well yeah but it happens at such a deep level you can can't even figure it out. Like sometimes they seem normal for a month or two. Yeah, no, I know. Yeah. And especially this industry has a lot of people that one of the first lessons I learned when I first started coming down here was that there's a difference between being good at chatting and being a good person.

And there's a lot of people here that are very good at talking. And when you come from a normal place yeah meeting someone that is good at has the gift of gab you're like oh cool i can connect with this person well fucking everybody down here is good at talking and so it work in the angle it took me a year before i was like oh oh they can string a sentence together doesn't mean they have a conscience yeah they seem to like me that doesn't mean they do that means garbage total fuck all. Yeah. They're looking for what they can get. Always. Always.

And your mom stayed with him until the end? No. No. She got into her wits end about seven years before he passed. And what did she do? Well, she was a homemaker for most of my life and then um and then when my folks split up and uh and my dad uh didn't have a pot to piss in so didn't have any child support to throw our way whatsoever and i started kind of paying our bills at 14 um no kidding you were that child actor yep yeah um but but always with

the caveat my mom never she made it abundantly clear i do not depend on my son right we're a family you have the money now we'll take care of you but by the way you want to stop tomorrow you stop tomorrow she said it to me very specifically she says we do poor very well yeah okay so we will go back to being poor very easily and my mom no guilt in that none whatsoever no the opposite but in the back of your mind you're like man we may do it well but no i don't mind it i i look his like there's like everything's fun and everything and everything's a treasure and i grew up like with very little money in our house sporadic money yeah if any and and and so and it and necessity is the mother of invention

so i had a much more interesting rewarding childhood than a lot of my friends who grew up with not a single care in the world. Right. And mom told me at nine that no one's going to give me anything. I remember saying to her, because I'd see all these American movies that filled my head with nonsense, that I turn 16 and my parents will get me a car or some stupid thing. And so I said to her, I said, when I'm 16, I get a license, she'll get me a car. She said, absolutely not. She's like, if you decide you want a car i'll tell help you figure out how to save your money i was like oh but you'll send me to university she said no once again if you decide at 18 you want to go to university i'll help you figure out how to save your money but

i'm not sending you anything you're gonna be a grown-up you'll buy it yourself and thank fuck i got that because so many people i know got out of university with this god awful sense of entitlement. Yeah. That they had done their four years and wasted 200 grand or however fucking much money they spent. Right. And now they feel that they're owed something. And I've never felt.

Without getting any skills necessarily. Right. At school. Or getting dirty and fucking suffering for it and and because they think school is suffering enough right and and i just always was raised to know big bad world um you got no one to trust but your friends and your family and no one's gonna give anything to you yeah and i'm much i i'm uh and i'm it's it's seen me in good stead yeah no i think that's a i think it's a good thing to learn you know that this idea that everybody can be rich uh has really shit well it is it's his it's horseshit and also

like i think it diminishes people's you know uh engagement agreed with trying to do something yes when i i was exactly right the old fucking thing was what do you want what's the house you want the car you want the life you want how hard and long do you have to work to get there yeah do that and now as my friend points out every morning someone's on facebook sees a their friend's tv or car or backyard or like oh i want that and and that's fine but rather than the metric of how can i work to get that it's how can i have this tomorrow yeah how can i get credit how can i get it well yeah i i don't know what i wanted like i i always want i i just wanted to feel okay right yeah that's a perfectly reasonable thing i'm living in a crumbling house i could probably get a better

house now but i don't even want that it's just gonna be okay normal but yeah i know it's i guess it's really hard for people to know what the hell they want to do when they don't have to do it yeah very very very true like that's the weird thing like people who have to fucking do shit you figure it out you figure it out you're because your other option is homelessness or death yeah yeah like honestly or or living on the dole for the rest of your life and like and and i i just it bums me out that people aren't, every generation has less staying power than the one before it, you know. And more access and more convenience and more, you know, like distractions. And yeah, it's hard for me to wrap my brain around all of it. Because, I mean, you're not exactly saying pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

You're saying like, oh, just get engaged somehow. Do something. Give a shit. Yeah. And and work that's the other thing or if you're not going to give a shit and you don't know what you want to do try and help some other people right right or if not keep your fucking mouth shut and just sit there then and know that you've got you figured it out you're gaming the system in some way but less there's there's this awful need of like self-branding that maybe it's a function of social media culture. Right. But we're also in a specific world that nurtures a certain delusion on behalf of people who want to be involved in it.

Very true. So there's a lot of self-branding and those brands aren't taking. Not at all. No, no kidding. But there's no one to tell them they're not. They're like i got uh 200 likes on this i'm like all right and and what and and i honestly i i think this is going to sound like an exaggeration but i really think that has terrible repercussions on like discourse

because i've noticed i've seen this awful thing um i'm someone who would probably most of my beliefs would probably be described as liberal and and i am constantly offended at how people that are like supposed to be ideological allies of mine don't actually try to convince people that are opposed to them they just scream their opinion louder or get defensive yeah get defensive or call them names hope they get that retweet that i got that stinging dig in there i won that fight yeah well you fucking didn't because the country and culture are suffering because of it yeah i firmly believe your goal should be to try to convince this person of your beliefs to get right yeah and the only way you're gonna do that is by trying your best to not get their backup

and not and and to and to find common ground. You grew up like me. You're trying to pay your taxes and feed yourself, right? We're doing the same thing. But in defense of some of that, you don't want to start a DM relationship with kill all Jews. No, no, obviously there's a scale. There's a tier system. There's a triage system to it.

You know what? At Hitler is right is not going to be your friend. No, at coming race war is not is right is not going to be your friend no at at coming race war is not the guy that i need to be although to be honest an argument could be made that like if i don't try to convince that man of my or at least try to plant the find some common ground right then then that's how bad shit happens and i know that it works i i i don't often get into political arguments on twitter because i believe that i don't get I'm not I got off it altogether. I just use it for promotion and occasionally answer some questions.

I get it. And for me, it was I believe that if you share a viewpoint, you should have you should have the patience to then defend it. If you don't have that in you and the appetite, keep it to yourself. That's why we vote behind a curtain is my opinion. Right. And once in a while i get into it and i had said something last year during the american election i was quite pissed at uh at the muslim ban that he was trying to run on yeah and i called him a fucking brown shirt on twitter and of course that opened up a whole hell of beans on the army of

brown shirts the army of brown shirts the army of unfuckable hate nerds the the sturm abdillung yeah came at me en masse and what i was so mad about was the jewish people that tried to call me a traitor to my people for saying that and i would have these sort of very kind of net and yahoo anti-muslim jewish people exactly and they would accuse me of betraying my ethnicity and i got bloody mags i said no it's because of my ethnicity because my parents and grandparents and people that looked like me and had my surname have been fucking marginalized and painted as the big bad other for the better part of 500 years go no 500 fuck that 2 000 years 3 000 years right that's why i it behooves us we should know fucking better that's where it comes from how dare you fuck that and that pisses me the fuck

off well yeah and all the triangulation just it just mutes everything yes it does yeah echo chambers screaming at each other yeah and it just but like that whole thing where you can't like there's within each subgroup there are subgroups and there are divisions yeah you know on the left you know on the right yeah but when the left starts to break apart you know you it really starts it really kind of continues to fragment to where there's just like a group of two people yeah that's it really against that's glue yeah you know like that's right and very very grossed out and offended anytime someone mentions glue exactly but yeah it's hard to get on the same page so like but you weren't brought up politically active oh actually i was no i in a big way yeah what about like what was your relationship with your grandparents i mean your your father's

parents yeah they must have had some ideological yes kind of well yeah big time so my my my dad's mom converted to judaism she was a french woman from Normandy that met my grandpa and got married and converted. So when she was before she was Jewish, she was a child in Normandy when the Germans conquered it. Oh, my God. And then she became Jewish. Yeah. So they had very strong opinions about that stuff. You know, like we were never a German car.

A lot of converts are really Jewish. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Pride of the convert is what they call it. They put the work in. stuff you know like we were a never a german car a lot of converts are really jewish oh yeah yeah pride of the convert is what they call it because they put the work in it's like nobody from new york likes new york as much as people that just moved there right all my friends from there like yeah it's a great town it's where i grew up but it's just a city yeah everyone that moved there thinks oh my god have you tried this place yeah and it's just so freeing i can walk anywhere you know um so no german cars no german cars and so on that

side and then on mom's side my granddad was a career soldier um and was uh then in the first one of the first un peacekeeping missions in cyprus and i and and like i said and like a great deal of my uncles and cousins on my mom's all military most of my mom's sisters married soldiers and um and so i grew up in a very sort of on that side incredibly patriotic uh belief system um because like my uncle ron in addition to being a soldier he was a mountie for 35 years he guarded the he guarded her majesty the queen as well as pope john paul ii um and this is like a big point of pride in our family yeah and so we have seen canada as ours and ours to serve for generations right and and i'm probably imbuing a bit of romance on it

because my mom's family were just poor and soldiers are good poor people jobs yeah um but there was always a sense of of patriotism and honor to it and it was like my great lump in my throat the great shame in my life is that i never joined the army. Really? And never went to Royal Military Cottage in Kingston. College. Cottage. Yeah. Royal Military College in Kingston. It was something that from three years old, I said, Mom, I want to be a soldier like Uncle Doug and Uncle Mom.

You felt the need to serve. And Mom would be like, and having grown up on that culture, in that culture, having seen like the good side of it with my granddad, but maybe some of the bad side of it as well. Yeah. She wanted to keep me as far away from as possible. And then we moved back to Quebec. We left Quebec in 88. Anglos moved to Toronto like a lot of them did. We moved back to Quebec in 93.

There was a provincial election in 94 and a referendum in 95. When we moved back to Montreal, everyone was telling my father, you're going the wrong way down the 401. And within a year of us getting back to Montreal, my father started his own political party with two of his friends. And so at 12, 13, I was watching my dad on the debate circuit. He's a real hustler, huh? What was his political party based on? So it was an issue party. They didn't expect to get any seats whatsoever.

It was purely they wanted to make sure that everyone was aware what this is the true issue in this election was, was that it was about secession. And so and that for whatever reason, that wasn't the biggest narrative at that point. And so, and that, for whatever reason, that wasn't the biggest narrative at that point. And so dad's party, the Canada exclamation mark party, was there to debate and bandy about this idea to everyone that if you elect this party, you can expect a referendum inside of a year. And, and so I watched dad learned how to debate and then was on the debate team myself. But I watched this at a very grassroots vital introduction into Canadian politics. And then so fucking grassroots that so my dad's party didn't have a pot to piss in. He made his own posters. He literally just went to the fucking metro station, got in the photo booth, took out the photo that looked the least like Saddam Hussein because my father's very Sephardic and look very much like Saddam Hussein.

Yeah. He then went to the photocopy store, made up a bunch and then staple gunned them to trees sure everyone else was dying them to light post and so in like very progressive lefty montreal so we can't staple shit the tree at a certain point we saw these people writing thanks for killing the tree asshole all this little like little bubble writing. Yeah, it was amazing. What's interesting, in the haze of dubious employment, your father found it to take it upon himself to create a political party. Very smart man. That's what it was. Just like a fiercely, fiercely intelligent man.

Did his debating and presence provoke anything in dialogue around the issue? Oh, definitely. dating and presence you know provoke anything like uh in dialogue around oh definitely and he was asked to join one of the bigger parties because my dad could always fucking argue better than anybody my dad liked fighting period whether it was a fist fight or an argument he just had the fight in him and he was fucking good at it and uh and so he got he was asked to to join the the canadian uh quebec version of the Progressive Conservative Party, turned them down. But yeah, no, I learned so much,

and it made me understand that these institutions are ours. There was never a disconnect. You know what I mean? The Capitol never felt far away. And to me, I posit that that's America's biggest problem, is the average taxpayer voter feels a billion miles away from the Capitol. Yeah, but some of that has to do with, you know, I don't think it's intentional. I think there's just a disconnect.

There's a massive disconnect. That these people actually do anything. Yeah, 100%. And that's why there's always a kernel of truth in anything, in any bad lie. And so the one thing that righties and lefties in the States can both agree on is the system doesn't work. That's the one thing everyone says. But they also, you know, outside of people gaming the system and mobilizing people who may not know better, they don't realize that it's their system. They should own, and they own it. Yeah.

You know what I've never heard? realize that it's their system they should own and they own it yeah you know what i've never heard this was a very telling thing because i was the time that i was in the states the most consistently yeah was from 2000 through 2005 right it's a very colorful era yeah and something that i constantly heard that always uh gave my spiders that made my spider senses tingle was when i heard these people talk about w and said we have to support the president we're at war we have to support the president right and i was like he's not the fucking god emperor he's your employee and the weird thing is is that like and this was this is the most mind-blowing thing i learned recently that i can't remember his last name but he used to work for mccain he's a pundit

he's on the shows now but he said that when nixon resigned he still had like a 29 approval rate yeah so there's always going to be. A hundred percent. Those people like, you know, do you believe that the president's the president? Yeah. Died in the wool no matter what. Yeah. Yeah. So what made you get into the acting?

Oh, really a super simple thing. My dad found a brochure for like a once a week kids acting class when I was 12. Your dad's a, he's working the angles. And I, so I started taking these courses and i i auditioned for um a student film that these kids were making and they couldn't afford to pay anybody and uh and they and i i got the gig and i met a pro actor who was doing a favor on that movie recommended me to their agent and um and mom said to me you want to go to film school you want to be a director which is what I've wanted since I was nine.

She said, this is the best film school in the world. And so literally every day on set since I'm 12 has been film school for me. Oh, yeah? Yeah. And so what were your first, because we were in a movie together. Were we? Yeah. I was in Almost Famous.

Holy fuck. Really? Yeah. Another bit part like mine? Yeah, a smaller bit part. What did you do? I was the angry promoter who chased a bus. Amazing.

Lock the gates. Amazing. Yeah, that's me. There's a few of us that are bit parts of that movie that did pretty good. Yeah, Mitch Hedberg was in it. Nick Schwartzen was in it. Fuck, that's right. That's right.

Mitch Hedberg. I don't think he had a, I don't know if he had a line, but he was in the poker scene. Yes, that's right. Nick Schwartzen is the guy who went david bowie yeah that's right yeah there's a lot of people in that movie hedberg hedberg's favorite of all time i got to see him live at just for laughs when i was 16 i was a big one oh yeah was he on his game yes he fucking was oh good yes he was well yeah yeah he was great and it's a weird thing about mitch is that his stuff is so uh it holds up yes it does it's my favorite ever yeah because like it's not hinged to no no

no no no to uh anything really personal it's all observation yeah and there's nothing about it any specific era yeah it's like poetry yes yeah it just makes sense and it will always make sense yeah it's uh it's sad that he's gone yeah so but that was like one of your first movies huh but it was not your first gig no but it was my first job in the States. But what was your first movie? Well, my first gig ever. A gig. Yeah, it was a TV gig probably.

It was. I got killed in the opening of an episode of Are You Afraid of the Dark, the Nickelodeon show. Yeah. And then you just did a lot of Canadian stuff? Yep. As a kid? Yeah. And then I had like-

Were you ever like a teen sensation or anything in Canada? I wouldn't say that, but I was on a kid show that a lot of kids watched. Which one? It's called Popular Mechanics for Kids. Uh-huh. And it's still the thing I'm recognized most for in Canada. Really? Yeah.

And, or, I mean, most people know the rest of the career and think they're being very clever by being like, hey, you know what I'm a fan of? Yeah. PMK. And I'll be like, yeah, motherfucker, everyone says it. You're the first guy to say it. As a child. Yeah, fuck.

You've done some other stuff. By the way, go fuck yourself. But also, because my ambition was to go to film school, I had thought I'd act till the work kind of dried up and I got to that awkward stage that every kid gets to where i'm no longer cute kid and i'm not like a man i'm just this gangly fucking idiot yeah and so and i stopped getting auditions and so i was like okay great so i'll hopefully whatever what age were you 15 18 18 i was like whatever money i have saved over saved up i'll uh go to

film school and then i'll just uh live i'll get like a normal job yeah and then i'll write indie scripts right to try and make indie films in montreal for the rest of my life so i was already done acting and then i got this gig on the on the judge show undeclared and and well here i am but but no but you did big parts though man you know before that i mean i i mean you're making it sound like everything's dried up, but the first time I think I registered you was in Million Dollar Baby. Oh, wicked. Thank you. That was great.

Thank you. That's after. I still get choked up when you get all beat up. I'm just thinking about you getting beat up. It's a sad one. Yeah, it's a real sad one. It's rough, dude. It's a heavy thing.

You're just this wide open kid. It ended up being so much heavier i think than any of us and necessarily bargained for really i think clint knew it was going to be heavy oh no clint knew the whole movie was a bummer but i think that particular scene was a bit harder than we all anticipated oh but that was actually after yeah that's that's after the sort of everything everything did sort of shit the bed and and anything that you know me from is from Post Undeclared. Really? Most likely.

So how did Judd find you? Casual director for that show. Went to go see Almost Famous. And I guess I resonated. Oh, really? Yeah. And I was home. The Led Zeppelin kid.

Yeah. And I was at my mom's house. I was in my sister's bedroom playing PlayStation. The home phone rings. It says, hello, this is so-and-so from Allison Jones Casting in Los Angeles. I'm like, yeah. Like, is this Jay? I'm like, it is.

Like, we saw you in Almost Famous. We'd love, we think you'd be great to audition for the Untitled Judd Apatow Project. Yeah, fuck, what else am I doing? Yeah, yeah. Hold on, I'm almost done with this game. Well, and then that's kind of how it happened. And then that started that relationship. So you didn't know Seth or Evan or anybody before you met Judd.

That's it. There's this idea that all Canadian funny people know each other, but you don't. Canada's a very big fucking country. Vancouver's very far from Montreal. But it's a small entertainment industry. It is, totally. But Seth wasn't in it before. Right, that's true.

All he did was some stand-up in Vancouver. Yeah. All right, so you do not undeclare, but then all the movies. All he did was some stand-up in Vancouver. Yeah. All right, so you do not undeclare, but then all the movies come. Knocked Up, You're Great in That. Thank you. Tropic Thunder, I think, is one of the great underrated satirical masterpieces. I think so, too. I think history will be very kind to it.

I think what has to happen... I mean, it's not that people hate the movie. There's already quite a good amount of goodwill for it. But. It's a deep movie. I think it gets overlooked as deep as it was. Precisely. And I think what's going to happen to it will be the Blade Runner Scarface thing. Where once the kids that were 10 when that movie came out go to film school and analyze it. Then we'll have a cult of appreciation truly for it.

Yeah, it's a real smart movie. It really fucking is. And we knew it like i remember nolte saying to me he's like this is going to be like strange love and i was like you're fucking right man it really could be and and that's like a lofty thing to compare and i'm sure i'll get a lot of ben would love to hear that but but i honestly think history will regard it i don't know about as kindly as strange love but but in that vein. Well, I've watched it several times after seeing it. Because the stuff that oddly pops out, for me, outside of the war stuff, was the celebrity stuff.

Yeah. I mean, that stuff. Scathing. It's scathing, but it's deep. You know, when he's like, you know, with his like wooden Oscar and shit. I mean, it's weird. It's insane. It's weird shit. It's insane. It's weird shit.

And born of reality. And Downey is great. Yes. Yes. And what's amazing is, so obviously we were all very well versed in talking points about that. Like we were just like, this is going to be an issue. So what none of us anticipated that was the real issue, because that didn't seem to trigger a negative reaction. What did was the full retard run.

That's what got more attention than the racial issue. Big time. We had protesters at the premiere and stuff. And I was like, I understand. And it's not for me to tell people from another community that they have no right to be offended by something. That's not my place. But I was also at the same time like, I get it, but you're not necessarily reacting to the point of the scene. That's right.

Yeah, well, that happens. Yeah, it does. You know, people have to make their stand to get their territory. And also, by the way, I get it. Well, yeah, it's a righteous fight. That's it. And if that's the price you pay for being on the right side of things is that every once in a while you throw the baby out with the bathwater or you attack someone that isn't the right target. Right.

That's a small price to pay because out there they're banging the right drum. Right. But it was like a bummer and none of us had were ready for it right right so yeah throughout the the judd movies like how many did you do you did knocked up just that that was it yeah just just undeclared and knocked up and then and then but you became friends with seth and evan yeah i i've known seth and evan since i was 18 since we did undeclared together and like when i'd go to vancouver it stayed at his parents house and all that stuff. Oh, really?

Only time I ever snowboarded, I was wearing Evan's snowsuit. And then we did This Is The End together. Boy, that's a good movie, too. Thank you. I liked it. I agree. Much better than it had any business being.

It's amazing. Another sort of scathing indictment of celebrity. I think so. Yeah. And I think, but one that makes a lot of sense as a story. Yeah. Like, it actually, structurally, is a pretty strong thing. And what I like is it has an energy to it that's kind of its own thing.

It does. And the effects at the end, Satan was good. It's really its own animal. It is. It is an odd movie. And it has, Satan was good. It's really its own animal. It is. It is an odd movie. And it has like a bit of Fellini in its DNA. Yeah. And I was just happy that it was definitive because my biggest criticism of comedy cinema

in the past 10 years is that it's the same movie. Yeah. The same font on the titles. Yeah. Everything's lit the same. The wardrobe is the same. Right. It's all just four shots.

The one bit of the take where they weren't talking over each other and the ad libs were okay right like it's a they're all movies of four shots yeah you can fall asleep to one on a plane and wake up in the middle of another one and you would think it's the same fucking movie no it's true and this is the end to me feels like i won't i'm not gonna embarrass them and call them auteurs but it is it's like a definitive intended bit of cinema no i think so and i think that those guys have like, you know, that crew, you know, Jonah and you and Seth and Evan, and Judd specifically kind of created a new tone for just comedy in general. I mean, I know Judd gets, you know, a certain amount of criticism for the types of people that, you know, he seems to be capturing. But in terms of just the language of the timing you know he seems to be capturing but but in terms of just

the language of the timing and everything and the vibe and it's and it's a shared process that him and ben stiller both have because they all they came up together in the ben stiller show yeah and it was a neat thing for me to compare uh the set of tropic thunder to like undeclared or locked up and to see where it came from the same place. You want to go into that a little bit? No. I saw where it was similar, but need to see where they differed. Uh-huh. Yeah, I think one of them runs the set differently. Slightly. All right.

But now let's talk about your relationship and the Canadians' relationship with hockey, because I didn't see the first Goon movie, but I watched the new one. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah yeah fucking right thank you it's not awkward i mean like i don't know i didn't expect you to have seen number twos that's awesome they sent me a screener awesome and you know the one thing that i i like i started to do because i don't know hockey and i'm not a sports guy in general though i did learn how to skate when i was a kid uh we lived in alaska for a couple years i had a stick i had hockey skates oh very cool i went to the when i was a kid uh we lived in alaska for a couple years i had a stick i had

hockey skates oh very cool i went to the ring i could skate around a bit um but i never really knew how to play i was never on a team or anything well you just called it a ring not a ring so that a ring yeah that's pretty a boxing ring right well it's similar in your in your movie yes yes ring in the ring yes one in the same shared geography yeah uh but like when i was watching it with my girlfriend i'm like are these like because the the idea of the um the enforcers you know you know getting washed up and having to do these uh these shows yeah is that a real thing yeah so that is um because it's like comedy it's fucked up it's it's so that our answer our version of it is like a bit kind of enhanced movie version of a very real, very sad thing that only ever happened once. It was called the Black and Blue Hockey Enforcers Tournament.

Yeah. And the footage of the tournament itself is a bummer. The documentary about them making it is very interesting because you see them go from town to town in Canada, and every city council's like we don't want this we don't want to just see two guys beat each other up and skate in hockey but but not play hockey at all right and um and then eventually prince george bc was fine with it and when you see the behind the scenes things of all these guys who are like five years out from actually having been on a team. Yeah. And the checks are bouncing and they're having to go chase the promoter down and be like, wait, this is not what we negotiated. So it's like wrestling.

Yeah. And it's like, but it's real. And they're actually fucking hitting each other as hard as they can. And, and like, don't now, don't get me wrong. I am someone that I got to step in here and go, right. The guys who wrestle get hurt, but go ahead. Okay. Sorry. But they, let me put it. it it is choreographed that's what i'm saying every one of those guys know who wins that fight yeah uh in this case they just beat each other up

until it's over and uh yeah and and this bare knuckle and and they're just squaring off so this was a real thing that the opening thing like because I know hockey's a sport, and I knew what was being captured there were these washed-up fighters, hockey fighters, who were now just doing that. Yeah, some of them, yeah. It seemed like it wasn't fabricated. It has to be born of something real. Now, the kind of battle royale, 10 guys at once thing, that's our bit of movie flourish. Right. 10 guys at one thing that was that's our bit of movie flourish right but that's still the heart and spirit of that idea is the real thing of this like incredibly ridiculous over-the-top

sad thing to see and it's like we thought it connected perfectly to the overall theme of the whole movie which is that evolution versus extinction yeah you know when you define yourself solely by what you do and what and especially if what you do is very finite yeah and hurts you and you're going to have to say goodbye to it you're faced with a very important fundamental profound ultimatum do i evolve and embrace this next part of my life yeah or do i stay there trying to hold on to what i used to have yeah and you pay a price if that happens i think well yeah and now in professional football you know we're really seeing that you know most of these guys are like you know we might all have this yeah this brain damage well they're running right into each

other it was down to be in those sports like hockey and football and i imagine well not soccer but there's got to be other sports where you know people get horrendous actually and what's so weird is they're finding it in even the soft sports like even soccer they're they're seeing uh uh it's it's all because no one was targeting uh head trauma and concussions until like 10 years ago right 15 years ago right and they were fighting and they fought that yes they did yes they yes it's a good movie that concussion movie is it i haven't seen it it's good tell the truth yeah tell the truth that one yeah okay yeah i'll see it um yeah no they good on historical because i know that yeah right it's an important thing for people

to know yeah um and and and i and i think it's it's better for people to have the most information they have i think the difference is though is when people start proselytizing and condemning and i think it's more about give everyone, fans, players, everyone, the appropriate info and let them as consenting adults decide what they want to do with their lives. Right. So after the success of the first Goon movie, which you wrote, you didn't direct, and you've been a lifelong hockey fan.

Yes, sir. That goes with your national pride, I imagine. That's the sport. And being my dad's son. He's a big hockey fan? He the biggest um yeah and but you know it was a surprise success the first movie it had they built a cult following among the players and among so in the states it's in the boondock saints donnie darko cult category back home is just a bona fide success because we opened at number one across the country i can't tell you another time in my life where an English-Canadian movie was number one and an American pitcher was number two.

Yeah. And it happened on Goon that weekend. Right. And then we also, in the UK, we're like one of the highest, if not the highest grossing Canadian film in UK box office history. And so we have these three awesome kind of fan bases in canada canadians feel like we finally just named the elephant in the room and gave them the movie that they've been waiting for yeah in the uk it's this weird thing that everybody thought they would hate yeah and we're but then we're like oh yeah no the uk has got the biggest oldest fight culture

in the world of course they like this sure And then for Americans, this really neat thing happened where in the States, hockey is like a black sheep, third tier, fourth tier sport. Right. And so the people that are really into it, that sort of otherness underdog thing becomes part of it. So when a fucking movie that's like ramshackle and blue collar and kind of handmade like ours comes yeah it just dovetailed perfectly with how they felt already and it was like someone made a movie for them so it was kind of a really neat thing well the thing that i found in watching it was like you know once the story kind of found its groove i mean i knew where it was going but not in a predictable way but you're like is that guy you're gonna come back and he's so funny that sean williams is amazing

because like he plays a doofus yes he does yeah he's not a very bright man and then you got you we have schreiber out of nowhere who just acts the shit out of that guy yes he does and like like i couldn't believe it because like as a comic i know the old guys right you know in any profession right the guys who are you know salty dogs right and and you know almost, like, you know, right when he hits the screen, you're like, damn. He got the vibe, right? He's a real character. Yes, he is. No.

And we were so lucky. We were spoiled for riches on the cast in both films. TJ Miller had a little part in there. Yes, that's right. Alison Pill was genius. She's very funny. She is. That was an awkward one, just purely because her and i used to live

together but when professional but we well it was such a we were such her and i are both such like hard canadian she is we're both very hokey hard on our sleeve artists that we're not trying to like hang out but when it was apparent that we were going to make another one of these there wasn't a moment's hesitation on either end about whether or not we should do it. Right. Because we both wanted to and knew the movie would be good, and it was the right thing to do. But she fucking kills it.

And I think Alicia Cuthbert as her sister is on fire in that movie. It's funny. Even as a non-Canadian, having worked in Boston, there's a certain tone. Yes. It's called white trash. Yeah. Well, they certain tone. Yes. It's called white trash. Yeah. Well, they don't like that. I'm allowed to say it.

Okay. Working class foibles. That's it. And caricatures. But yeah, it was sort of familiar to me. But so let me understand it. So in hockey, there are guys that were hired onto teams that may not necessarily be great players, but were great fighters.

Yeah, and that era is drawing to a close. Is that sad? For a lot of people, yes. You know, I mean, it's a hard one. If you want to go down a rabbit hole, Google the hockey fighting debate. Yeah. And what's amazing is all of the people that are against fighting is a minority of people for the most part it's usually writers none of the players really seem to have an issue with it they every time there's an informal poll about whether or not the nhl should ban it the players vote

overwhelmingly in favor of keeping it right and watch any fucking hockey game where two guys drop the gloves find find me the guy sitting in the audience like they're saying like oh no there's like maybe three of them overwhelmingly we appreciate it and understand it and feel connected to it now i also can't take away and dispute any of the reasons people don't like it and fine society has decided it's time for it to go which is why there's a bit of melancholy romance in all of last of the enforcers we named it last of the enforcers for a reason right right because it's a bygone era he's meant to be the last of the gunslingers how's it doing up in canada it opened already yes it did and um

it's it's been such a amazing lovely connection like people own that movie yeah it's it's and it's a hard thing to describe to someone who isn't from there because it's the only country in the world where we don't see ourselves reflected in our cinema uh-huh oh really all of our cinema's american yeah i okay yeah but there's i you know who's that um that that great armenian director up there oh yeah no adam m no, Adam McGowan's amazing. But what I'm saying is how many of his movies connect to the average guy in Calgary? Well, that's true. I guess there aren't the comedies that would define.

That's the point. In the States, in England, in Australia, I think it's taken for granted that you flip on the television or go to the movies, you'll see a movie that takes place in your country. We don't ever have that. That interesting it in it and it has repercussions so for us to do these you know because i also believe there's not something that's prohibitively canadian that this this movie is not alien to americans no i got it yes you weren't you didn't see a nova scotia license playing but what the fuck is this where am i throw the planet is throw the remote out the window no but i never thought about it.

Obviously, I wouldn't have put that much thought into it as you did. No. But like, yeah, I don't know that I could identify outside of performing in different parts of Canada, you know, what the social structure is, what our version of those kind of like characters are. So that's it. And so we made movies where people hear people that sound like them and look

like them and like let me tell you when we did this one of the screenings in calgary yeah which is a very important one for me because i said often we didn't make this movie for toronto vancouver montreal made it for calgary uh hamilton winnipeg halifax we made it for the all the small towns yeah uh and we did a screening calgary best fucking audience i'm gonna one of my proudest moments um i'm gonna start crying and this kid came up to me afterwards in the highlanders jersey And we did a screening in Calgary. Best fucking audience. One of my proudest moments. I'm going to start crying. And this kid came up to me afterwards in the Highlanders jersey. And you got to remember, I came up with these teams, man.

I invented this shit. So with Evan, but I'm the one that came up with all the team names. And so when I see people tattooing that shit on them or wearing that jersey, it's a fucking huge deal. And this kid came up to me and he said, Jay, thank you for this movie, Last of the Encers he said goon was my favorite film and since that movie's come out i've gotten married and i'm a new father yeah and now you made this movie and it's like my life is is tracking in these two movies and that kid doesn't really get that very fucking often right and so that was a

that was a pretty big one for me that's that's beautiful thank you yeah man thank you i've actually been to calgary yeah yeah i work in calgary nicest fucking people and i've been to winnipeg yeah that's where we did the first one that city's pretty beat up it's a hard it's a hard town it's a hard town it's it's often the murder capital of the country is that true we call it murder peg really yeah it's just but the actual city looks like the weather is yeah it beats the shit out of it every year it's it's just but the actual city looks like the weather has yeah it beats the shit out of it every year it's it's the windiest part of north america i was pointing i showed i would show that corner yeah twice portage and maine yeah it fucking sucks yeah it's just this you're in the center of this like the apex of a storm it's awful it's so

so cold cracked cold as shit but fucking lovely people in that town. Salt of the earth people. Yeah. And I will say this, strangely, because I didn't expect this, amazing food. And not just like greasy spoon good food, like sushi, steak, four star stuff. Like they really have a strange and a very important arts community. Yeah, there's a highbrow culture there. I mean, I definitely noticed that when I went. And they've given the world a lot of good punk rock as well.

Oh, good. Yeah, I mean, Canada's given the world a lot of good actors, a lot of funny people. Yep. I mean, and, but the experience of directing, this was the first time that you really took it on? Yeah. How do you feel about it? Aside from an episode of Trailer Park Boys, pretty much, yeah. I did one, I directed one of those.

But there is a Canadian thing that is uniquely Canadian. And those are my boys, and they opened the door for us. I've said it in many interviews. There's no goon without Charlie Park Boys. They built an infrastructure that allowed us to make that movie. Did you ever watch Slapshot? Of course. Of course.

But I'm not my dad. That's definitely for, like, there's a bit of a culture generation gap. Sure, sure. There's a bit of a generation uh generation gap yeah there's a bit of a generation but there is a theme there big time oh big time no no we're we're the heir apparent yeah a hundred percent um for being crass and vulgar and having that fighting spirit and um but no really funny scenes in your movie thank you very much the characters are very good thank you oh that's nice you to say yeah uh directing is all i've ever wanted to do since i was nine and it was the greatest thing i've ever been a part of and are you looking to do more yes that's nice of you to say. Yeah, directing is all I've ever wanted to do since I was nine, and it was the greatest thing I've ever been a part of. And are you looking to do more?

Yes, that's all that I'm interested in. I'll be lucky. If some awesome acting gig finds me, then that's that. But my intentions are all in trying to get this horror movie, Random Acts of Violence, going, which I might even be able to shoot this fall, as well as the comic book stuff, which is like I bought 20% of a comic book company, and I'm the chief creative officer, as well as writing titles for them. And so. A Canadian comic book?

Yeah, called Chapter House. And I'm surrounded in my house by movies and comics anyway, and now I have something to do with a bunch of them, and it's really cool. Oh, that's great. I love it. I was just going through my storage unit and I went through like maybe a two-year window of comic book interest. Yeah.

I was never brought up with it, but there was a two-year where, and like I've got all the Hellblazers and Sandman. Oh, Hellblazers is a hell of a book. Oh, yeah, man. Great books. I was there at the beginning and I'm like, I can relate to this guy.

That's how far out I was. Great. Him and I have something in common. That you felt allied with John Constantine. Yes, yes. Yeah, I'm like i can relate to this guy that's how far out i was great because him and i have something that you felt i lied with john constant yes yes yeah i'm like this is my gap yeah that speaks volumes that speaks i'm better now i reeled it in then the burnt out supernatural sting yeah yeah i really exactly i reeled in uh the the belief in uh manipulating beyond my means that's right well well said but the directing thing now when you did it yeah what how did you sort of do it because i i had some experience just i've

done a couple of things i directed a couple episodes of my show right of course but uh but like you know you gotta have a good dp yes but you guys you spent a lot of time on sets i mean you've worked with clint eastwood you've worked with stiller you work with apatow you work with other big directors that's it and like i said it was always film school i was never passive man i was never just there i was always not only observing and being a sponge i was also always picking the brain of whoever would let me right and i made the most of all of that i'm i you know and and i was very fortunate like stiller was so bloody kind to me yeah and it's not like he didn't have enough shit to worry about on that movie yeah um but he would always take time when he was lining up shots on the mini monitor

to explain the composition of the frame where the choppers were coming in and where this is going to go where the camera goes and he knew that i would dig that yeah he knew that that's what i wanted to do yeah and i got to work with george miller in uh in australia for two weeks on a movie that never happened. And had it happened, he said to me, he's like, I know I want you here every day because I know you have an interest in cinema. And I want you to shadow me like Mel did on Thunderdome. Oh, wow. And I was like, you know, that's one of the great apprenticeships in the world.

And it didn't happen? It didn't happen. But I also got to be on set and watch david cronenberg do his thing and i got to watch he's a great canadian director yes he fucking is he's like my hero oh boy yeah what was that one i just watched again did he do history of violence yes of course he did amazing flick it is an amazing amazing flick and i never read the graphic novel me neither and i think that's it unfolds in such an awesome way. Scanners. Dope. Videodrome. Videodrome.

But what's the weird one about the obstetrician? Dead Ringers. Dead Ringers, Jeremy Irons. That's a great flick. That's based on a kind of a true story. Yeah, I know. Geneviève Bujold as well. Yeah, I know. That is.

Isn't that fucking gross? Oh, man. Isn't that fucking weird? Yeah. The fly. I mean, like, and I got to be in one. I got to be in a movie called Cosmopolis. And so I got to be on set with him for two days. And I got to watch in one. I got to be in a movie called Cosmopolis. And so I got to be on set with him for two days.

And I got to watch him do his thing. And I'd have just asked to be a guest on that set anyway. I would have just stood at the wall. He's very specific and very deliberate and stylized. He is. And also what's so neat is, in my opinion, the two greatest directors I've ever had the pleasure of working for on set are Clint Eastwood and David Cronenberg. And the two of them have the exact same set. Really and and what i mean is not too many shots not too many shots not too many takes everyone's in a lovely mood it's all an incredibly light on your

shoulders they know what they want they know what they want they've hired the people that they want yeah and they all the crews all say the same thing though it's great it's lovely we move you just don't want to be the guy that fucks it up but what's amazing is like yeah i think i did a total of like maybe four takes of each shot on cosmopolis he has the same sense of confidence and knowing the movie he wants to make as clint did we're like that first day on set on million dollar baby i was stressed as shit and after every take i said mr easter was that all right and he said i was fine i was like yeah i could already chess move him telling the producer who's this kid why is he bothering me who else auditioned you know and then morgan freeman saw me nervous and he leaned over he's like if he doesn't say anything it means he likes it and what that afforded me

was this like huge career light bulb moment where i was like, oh yeah, what difference does it make how I feel about it? Right. I'm not the director. Yeah. If he got what he needs for the purpose of his story. Yeah. Fuck, then I'm done. But you don't have those moments where you're like, I could have done that better?

Not often. Well, that's good. And maybe I'm just an asshole. No. But I just like, if they if because if i didn't we'd still be shooting right and i just believe i tried it because i think that with artsy stuff you can flower it up too much and get lost in theory and you've got to remember it's still a craft and and i'm digging a ditch and if i'm digging the ditch that my supervisor asked me

to dig yeah then then and he thinks the ditch is done you're good it's not for me to be like this looks like shit you know no and and and i swear that i've since that day on million dollar baby i think maybe i've asked for another take maybe twice but then you work with directors like judd who likes to improvise so that that's a whole other animal it is it is completely and and that's like now there are also different versions of that ad lib atmosphere yeah there are some where it's uh like comedic darwinism where it's and it's like there is a slight soup song of adversarial nature pissing contest to it and then you have the the what i like is the the the vibe that my actors had on both Goon movies, which is they really, it's going to sound hokey, but they did take a team vibe to it, which was I, so in the

pissing contest, it's how can I be the funniest guy in this scene? Right. On Goon with those boys, it was how I want the guy next to me to look as good as he can. I'm setting him up. And also stay within character because a lot of times in pissing contest uh movies you can feel that they've departed from yes story and character and they don't give a shit and it's like and it's like having a guitar solo in every fucking song and that's sort of what you were talking about earlier

about that kind of feeds some of the redundancy yes it fucking does man and then it's like who are you doing this for right you're a tool and a servant and a steward of the redundancy. Yes, it fucking does, man. And then it's like, who are you doing this for? Right. You're a tool and a servant and a steward of the story. That's it. Yeah. That's it.

So I saw you on, I watched you, I was just sitting around trying to avoid the world and I watched you on Kimmel last night. Oh, yeah. And you were talking about food. Do you think that place

where he had the moose heart was a pied de couchon? It definitely was. Well done, my man. My man. It had to have been. Right, right, because I go to that place. Not as much anymore where he had the moose heart was a pied de cochon it definitely was well done my man my man it had to have been right right because i had to have been because i go to that place not as much anymore since i've got the high cholesterol yeah but that place is insane it'll fucking kill you yeah when he said a moose heart with maple syrup i was like i knew it had to be one of three places

oh my god it had to be it had to be au pied de cochon au pied de cochon yeah i've had some good shit there that foie grasie gras on the buckwheat pancake with the cheese. I've never eaten there. It's a bit rich for my blood. Look, working class class. Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Cup of bovril and a ham sandwich. Thank you very much. Okay, fine. You know, but for one time, it's special. Yeah, yeah, fair.

All right. Great talking to you, Jay. Thank you for having me mark great talk love that kid love him don't forget to pre-order waiting for the punch words to live by from the wtf podcast you can go to wtfpod.com and click on the book links or go to markmaronbook.com and remember to upload your receipt on the pre-order page and I'll sign a book plate for you that you can stick on the inside cover. Dig it. Oh, my God.

Come on, man. Let's just have a little, man. How about just a quarter one? Just a quarter. Just a quarter. I'm not going to chew gum, man. The gum doesn't do anything. I'm just going to chew gum. I. The gum doesn't do anything. I'm just going to chew gum.

I'm going to put my earplug in. We're going to play some guitar. God damn it. Come on. It'll get us out of this for a minute. I just want a taste, man. Just give me just a little, man. How about coffee?

Let's have some coffee, but that'll just make me want to do the other thing. Come on. Just chill out. Let's play some guitar. God. Ugh. Just chill out. Let's play some guitar. Thank you. Boomer Lives! Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly.

This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com.