WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 847 - Lee Daniels

Episode Date: September 17, 2017

Lee Daniels got his start in show business by running a nursing agency. That may seem unusual but the road to success for the producer-writer-director behind Precious, The Butler and Empire has always been unorthodox. As Lee tells Marc, the sideways nature of his path to achievement matches up with his personal life, in which he found out by phone one day that he was going to have to put the breaks on his partying and become a father to his niece and nephew. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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T's and C's apply. Lock the gate! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fuck nicks? What's happening?

I am Marc Maron. This is my podcast. How's it going? Today on the show, look at me setting up the show properly. Today on the show, Lee Daniels, the director, producer, writer of Empire, The Butler, Monsters Ball. He's going to be here. We talked for about an hour. I had a tight window, but it was good. I think we locked in and we got some stuff done.

We emotionally bonded and challenged each other a little bit. And it was exciting. It was moving. I needed one of those. I needed one of those where I'm like, ah, this is kind of, I don't know, making me have feels. Is that how the kids say it? Feels? Is that where we're at?

So what's happening? I'm sick. I'm sick. Not only, you know, not only do I have like four stitches in my mouth, now I've got a fucking cold. I'm sure you can hear it. But the show must go on. Okay?

The show must go on. But if you're wondering why I sound weird, that's it. Those two things. Harry Dean Stanton passed away, which is sad. He was very old, but it's sad still. Nonetheless, does not matter. He was one of those guys that you just always thought was going to be there forever on some level. And he is, because he's done so many movies.

But we did repost the original interview i did with him which if any of you have been with me for a long time i was very insecure about and a lot of people got mad at me because they said it was fine he was old and uh i was too hard on myself or what did you expect you idiot he's an old man uh but i just wanted to say that we did put that interview back up if you wanted to check in with that. I did see that new movie, Lucky, too. It would have to be his last movie.

And I think it was a very personal movie for him, I think. And I'm not being paid to say this, and I don't know where I got the film or who sent it to me. It was directed by John Carroll Lynch, who is also an actor uh that you might remember played uh francis mcdormand's husband in um fargo but the movie stars harry dean and he's just like 90 year old atheist who

has outlived and outsmoked his contemporary so you it's like it's not him but it is him in a way i believe and it's a pretty great movie. David Lynch is in it, Ron Livingston. Tom Skerritt has a part in it. There's a lot of older cats that you haven't seen in a while. But I recommend it. I don't know where you can find it, but it's a good movie. It's called Lucky.

And if you have a Jones to see the last film that Harry Dean Stanton did, I believe, I'm not mistaken uh you should watch that because it's it's it's a poetic little movie it's it's a little um stylized but it's great if you love harry dean okay i just wanted to put that out there i'm a little raw i'm i'm fucking sick so here's what's going on let's read a couple emails. I want to talk about Eric Clapton for a minute. I talked about, oh, the teabag situation. That sounds dirty, but it's not. First, the emails. Here we go. It says, dude, subject line, dude, is that really your butt in glow? Please say yes. That's from ross so i wrote back of course and he wrote back nice i thought it was a nice exchange i wanted to share it with you um here's another

one subject line too good my girlfriend farted in front of me for the first time while laughing watching too real so thanks for that intimate moment and progression in our relationship. Your best work yet. Glad to help out, man. That was from Marcus. That's a big moment for a couple. And I'm proud. I'm proud of the special.

But at this moment, I'm more proud that I facilitated that wonderful moment between you two. And you're welcome. And thank you for watching Too Real on Netflix. I appreciate that. Now, the tea issue. Let's get to the tea issue. As you know, I spoke about buying a bag of PG Tips

that had 1,150 tea bags in it, which was too much. It's a lot of pressure. Don't think I'm going to make it. It's very intimidating. It's a harbinger of my mortality. There's a lot of problems with it. And I've stuffed that big bag into a cabinet and I have a little tin for PG Tips. So I'm just filling the tin. But I got an email after actually talking about unloading the PG Tips. PG Tips wanted Eagle Rock, which is close to me. My name is Will and

my wife and I recently moved to Eagle Rock from London. I was listening to your Lord WTF episode and heard you've overordered PG Tips tea bags. Like true English, we both drink quite a lot of PG Tips. Congrats, as it's the only tea. And are down to our last small box. So I'd be up for buying some off you if you wanted. No joke. Love the podcast, by the way.

Cheers, Will. And I don't know what's going on with me, but I'm doing some fan outreach. And I wrote back, sure, I can meet you later today. I'll bring some when is good. Marin, Will, amazing. Afraid I'm at work the weekdays in Wilshire, but can either come meet you on the weekend or on my way home one night after work if that's cool. Just let me know how much money. Thanks so much. And I said, maybe over the weekend. I don't need money. I have a lot of tea, Marin. He said, yeah, weekend is cool. I'm around.

Great. Thank you so much. PG Tips is literally the only thing we get homesick for. And then he wrote, hey, Mark, let me know when it's good. Then he started pressuring me a little bit. Let me know when it's good this weekend. I felt a Jones coming like you know i teased him i teased him with this big drop of pg tips which is a highly addictive substance so he says gonna be on york boulevard in about an hour if that works also have some vinyl for you to say thanks cheer as well so now like you don't know you email a mid-level celebrity like myself you don't know if like i'm gonna get back to you or what so now he's sweetening the deal with vinyl like he's like he needs his stuff but he's like you don't know if like, I'm going to get back to you or what. So now he's sweetening the deal with vinyl. Like he's like, he needs his stuff, but he's like, I don't know if Marin's really on the level with this shit. It's audacious that I would expect this

to happen with a mid-level celebrity such as Mark Marin. That's what I'm projecting onto him. And then I said, I have to go by rock dog and cat on Colorado next to the poke place in the strip mall. Can you be there at four 30? I'll hand off the goods. And Will said, cool. See you then. No cops. So I did a teedrop in the parking lot of a strip mall,

did a PG tip teedrop, uh, for my English pal. And I got a couple of records. I don't, don't go crazy. I'm not, I'm not going to be doing that every week.

It's just, I'm, I'm fragile. I'm vulnerable. I'm a little ill. I like, I got, I can't go crazy I'm not going to be doing that every week I'm fragile, I'm vulnerable, I'm a little ill I can't I'll explain it later Oh man, so I went and saw Clapton and as some of you know

I don't Well here's the thing and I guess I can tell you I'm a tremendously big fan of Jimmy Vaughn now I don't know if you know who Jimmy Vaughn is Jimmy Vaughn is

a guitar player he's Stevie Ray Vaughn's older brother and he had a band called the Fabulous Thunderbirds and the first two Fabulous Thunderbirds records are for my money from where I'm sitting, two of the greatest sort of Texas blues records that you can own. Just beautiful fucking jump blues, guitar playing.

I mean, he's a classicist of blues guitar playing and great blues music. A lot of it from the texas guys i guess what i'm getting at is yes i did interview jimmy vaughn but that's not what this is about jimmy vaughn and another cat that he plays guitar with billy pitman who i also know uh they were opening for clapton at the forum and after i talked to jimmy in here which you'll hear eventually he let me play with him too it's a real real fucking honor i gotta check out the first two fabulous underbirds records uh girls go wild what's the word just get those two i play guitar with those two records more than almost any other record like even more

than peter green those first two fabulous underbirds records so for me it was a real thrill and honor to hang out with jimmy vaughn so they're opening for clapton at the forum it's uh jimmy vaughn and his band then gary clark and then clapton now as some of you know i i respect clapton but i've i've been a little bored by him at at times but i went to see these guys i watched jimmy and hung out and jimmy showed me some licks and he gave me some strings told me i to do flat wounds. That's where it's at. This is only important to guitar players. But like I watched Clapton and I think I figured it out.

He's always been pretty laid back, right? It's just as he got older, you know, he doesn't put any effort into, you know, he'll just wear some stonewashed jeans, maybe some cargo pants, Birkenstocks or Dock Siders and just a short sleeve shirt. And I don't know what I'm expecting from a 71 year old man. But, you know, he's just very grounded and has nothing to fucking prove. And he just sat there. He did like three fucking rockers and he sat down with an acoustic and did a bunch of his hits on acoustic.

And then he picked up the electric again, did White Room and some other shit. And, you know, I'm not saying it was riveting, but it was pleasant. And the one thing that I felt was that when he did lay out a lead, and he's really done his homework on the acoustic blues playing over the years, man. He really fucking knocks that shit out. That was really some of the best the acoustic blues and that's probably where he's at he's a real blues guy he just you know he's not gonna you know run around like uh like mick jagger he's just gonna be up there be slow hand lay back take

it easy not talk to the audience do his fucking job he seems like a very grounded sober spiritual dude you know in a way that's um almost shy but i'll tell you the one thing like one thing i'd love to see like you know when they do hit that lead like during white room or whatever doing one of the classic old ones uh what do you do a key to the highway you know it's like can't we just lay out a 20 minute jam you can't we just do that because when he'd get on those runs i'm like that's why he's fucking great those runs are outstanding these blues runs and i'm like yeah i'm just watching his fingers on the big screen anyway uh i i i'm sorry that i dismissed eric clapton for being boring he's a wizard and he he is like it's a lot of responsibility to be a guitar hero

and to hold that mantle and he fucking did and I'm sorry, Eric. All right? Not that you listened, not that I talked to you, not that I even met you, but there you have it.

Okay? Great job. I just wish, maybe a 12-minute lead. 12-minute jam, just fucking lay it out cream style. Right? Why not?

Maybe I left too soon. Did you do that? Are you still playing now? I don't know. Maybe the show is continuing. Okay. Lee Daniels was in and out here. He was doing a junket, doing other interviews.

He's got his show Empire and Star. Premieres the new season on September 27th, my birthday. And I was happy to talk to him. It was kind of intense. This is me and Lee Dan. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need.

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5 000 fans in attendance will get a dan dawson bobblehead courtesy of backley construction punch your ticket to kids night on saturday march 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Neils. So you had a production call right there. Right, just walking in. You're dealing with some... Dude. What? It's hard.

Is it? It is, yeah. For which show? Star. And it was about music. Yeah. It's just so hard. It's so hard.

But you deal with that every day, right? I know, but I was literally... We were trying to find a song music. Yeah. And it's just so hard. It's so hard. But you deal with that every day. Right? I know. But I was literally, we're trying to find a song about, in one of the episodes, as a finale number. Yeah. That's sort of like about where we are right now as a country. Uh-huh.

And I wanted it to be my interpretation of We Are the World. Right. A hipper sort of. But I remember when We Are The World was done, I felt that even though they had all those stars there, it felt a little, little like cutie. Sure, yeah. Almost like Disneyland-y.

Oh, absolutely, yeah. But it was what it was. And so I'm trying to find a rougher, grittier version of that song. That song exactly. Not that song exactly, but sort of like an inspiration. Because we're in a fucked up place right now. Bad.

So I'm just trying to find a song that is... Why don't you hire a bunch of cats to cover that thing? We do. That was the call that I was making as I was walking into the door. Are we recording? Yeah. Okay. Well, that? Yeah. Okay.

Well, that's exciting. Yeah. And then you're shifting gears, and I'm thinking as I'm driving, okay, where am I going? What am I doing? Right now. Tonight. As I walk into here right now to this great space that is filled with such- You got to ground yourself.

Yeah. I'm adjusting to it because it's a pretty Afro pic and everything. It's pretty- It's my kind of style. It really is my kind of style. You like clutter? Mm-hmm. Historical clutter? Yeah.

Is that what your house looks like? Mm-hmm. You're right. Well, that's good. I appreciate it, guy. What do you mean? A collector. Yeah.

Your collector. My mother calls it junk. Yeah, well, I mean, I don't know why. It's comforting to me. It's very soothing. I feel right at home trying to figure out. Already, I'm going to attack the books. And I'm loving that thing right there that I grew up with. The troll doll?

Yeah, man. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of stuff. Then you got the Bible. It's a little bit of a hodgepodge. You go from the Bible to Homeboy over there. Yeah.

To which one? Oh, to Tyson over there. Yeah. To which one? Oh, to Tyson? Tyson. Yeah. That's just a weird picture that somebody put. Yeah. Somebody put the tattoo that I used for my logo on a bunch of different people. And that was what that was.

So you don't live here? I do. You do? I do, man. I'm homeless right now. I live in New York. You're breaking my heart. I'm not homeless.

No, I ain't that kind of homeless. I've been that homeless. Yeah. But I'm not that kind of homeless. But I prefer that kind of homeless, actually. Really? Yeah, because I know what time it is. You know what I mean?

Sure. Yeah, level playing field. When you got nothing, you got nothing left to lose. Exactly. Yeah. But this is a different type of a homeless in that my home is New York. Right. And I have shows in Atlanta and in Chicago.

So I go back and forth between both cities. Empire's in Chicago? Mm-hmm. No kidding. Yeah, shooting in Chicago. You shoot all there? Mm-hmm. No kidding. Yeah, shooting in Chicago. You shoot all there. Mm-hmm. So I stay at a hotel there,

and then I stay at a hotel in Chicago, and then I... Nice hotel? I like Chicago. I do, too. In the summertime or in the autumn. I can't mess with that winter. I didn't know about Chicago for years,

and then I started playing there and working there, and I was like, this is a real city with its own thing. You know, it's really grounded. It's a good place. I mean, I know it's got its problems, but I mean, it's a nice city. Don't you think? Yeah.

Atlanta, I don't, like, I never really got a handle on Atlanta. It's not bad. Yeah. It's not bad. It's actually. There's some good groovy folks. It's as nice as Chicago. Yeah?

Yeah. And now it's like a big, it's like the hub of show business. I'm told. Yeah, what are you shooting there? You know, right? They're shooting all kinds of shit there. I'm not, you know, you get into your bubble of what it is, so you really don't know about other people's worlds.

Yeah. But where'd you grow up? Philadelphia. When it was tough? Yes. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah.

The move experience, Rizzo yeah has mayor experience um yeah and it was it was i like philly now that's beautiful right it's really um well what you go downtown yeah yeah and then you step into north philadelphia and you step into the into the depths of west philadelphia yeah and you see the countless rows of homes that are abandoned and then you see one little home like row homes and you see one like all these abandoned homes yeah boarded up even yeah and you'll see a person living on that street yeah literally one family out of a 13 row home yeah family it's pretty intense why is that what happened i don't know It's pretty intense.

Why is that? What happened? I don't know. You don't know? It was really deep. Yeah? Yeah. But it's not like... I drove, my brother had a family that lived in Philadelphia, and I drove down the street

and I was like, all these abandoned homes, and then there was this house. And it's just the way it is. Because it doesn't, you don't hear, it's not like detroit it didn't die i'm sorry but certain parts of philadelphia it's it's bad it just died it's just gone yeah and the houses are just there what about where you grew up is it still alive yeah it's so funny you know it's secular when we moved in uh we were the first black family that lived on our street in West Winfield. Yeah. And a bunch of white people lived there.

And they sort of skirted off to the suburbs. Right after you moved there? Yeah. And then it became all black. And now because there's a college there, St. Joe's, a college there, St. Joe's. Uh-huh. It's now white again with sprinkles of African-American families. So it all comes back around.

But when you grew up there, it was just a working class neighborhood? Yeah. Lower middle class. Yeah. It was a middle class neighborhood that became lower middle class. Uh-huh. And what was your family's, what did your old man do? He was a middle class neighborhood that became lower middle class uh-huh and what was your what was uh your family's uh what would your old man do he was a cop really mm-hmm like a cop that worked for rizzo frank yeah you know when you think of uh some of my earliest memories were a group of white men crying over my father's body and blue. How old were you?

Fifteen. That's when they start? Those are some of your earliest memories? I mean, you know. Yeah. No, I know. My earliest memory was pooping in my grandfather's shoe. You did that?

Mm-hmm. On purpose, I would imagine. I don't know. I don't remember. I just remember pooping in my grandfather's shoe that's a very tough it's a tough coincidence

to accept again it doesn't sound like it just happened but your your father was killed in duty on duty

gunned down hmm it was a he was he lived the way he died yeah which was a violent death

he was a violent man? Mm-hmm. How many siblings you got? Four. Yeah. And it was a violent family? Not all the time. Yeah.

Just a lot of stuff going on. Mm-hmm. Explosive. Mm-hmm. Sorry you went through that. I thought it was normal it's hard to process have you processed it i mean do you have you worked through it i'm working through it yeah yeah i worked through it through my work yeah yeah and then i learned

that that wasn't enough so now you know i know your therapy and yeah yeah do you work through it in your work or were you avoiding it through your work do you know what i mean like i know you work people artists you know create stuff that resonates with them and moves them through stuff but a lot of times you seem like a very busy guy so i imagine that sometimes you know just working gets you away from you know whatever emotions that you wow that's a very powerful statement and i think it's accurate it's very accurate because you don't and then you come back and whoa you still got the same problems right but i do i do everything that i do it comes from a place of experience sure right and uh and so it is it is really therapeutic um but then i come back to still um what you just

said yeah who you are and And so, I'm 57. And so, for the first time ever, I've been in therapy. Yeah. And it seems to be working. You look good. I feel good, man. I feel good. I'm glad it's working.

I'm not drinking. I'm going through this sober thing. Oh, yeah. I've been sober a long time. Me too. I'm in AA. Yeah, me too too i don't know whether i should you're not supposed to but that's all right i'm not supposed to say i talk about all

the time i'm not supposed to no you can you why according to the program uh-huh do you want to know originally why they didn't want people who were famous people talking about it because they didn't want those people to rep they don't want to have public representatives of the program because let's say that like somebody gets sober because of you you said aa right and then all of a sudden maybe you you don't stay sober then whoever you say then they're like well that's the reason i got sober right you know what i'm saying yeah so i get so can we delete this part no no no i talk about all the time i'm just telling you what the tradition means how long you've been sober um six months oh so you're you're in it so you're doing it i mean no yeah i got sober yeah and then i got sober i mean i was i was like i was um i was on drugs yeah you know some 15 years ago. Right.

And then I got... And I drank. Yeah. And then I recently just said, uh-uh. Right. I need a... I don't know why. Everything. Mm-hmm.

Well, good. So this is an exciting time. You're going to find out a lot about yourself. Well, I'm knowing that I'm having difficulty now having sober sex. Yeah. That's something that's... Yeah. Not as loose as you used to be?

Maybe that's something to do with me being 57 too sure not really like you know something yeah yeah well yeah it's a little more you know you can't hide from yourself as much yeah yeah it's hard man it's i think um now i've been really honest with um who i am uh-huh and what i what i've been through uh-huh and a lot of people are receptive and a lot of people are not and um and i've never cared yeah really as long as i'm staying and living in my truth even when i was high yeah saying i'm high yeah but i'm living in my truth you know i'm truly high i'm high. And people would look at me like, he's high for saying that he's high. Well, that's an interesting thing. Oh my God. Where's this interview going?

Well, how far along are you in the Richard Pryor movie? I'm not. I was, I know. I was, I related to it so much because I was, I was, you know, I much because I did what he did. I was on cocaine. Yeah. And we were going to do it. Yeah. And then I just sort of, I don't know, I got caught up in TV land. And it really sucks you in.

It's very demanding. Yeah. It's not like I'm going away for six months to make a movie. I didn't know that though when I signed up for it. I didn't even know that the show was going to be it. I didn't even know the show was going to get picked up. I literally was going to. Yeah.

That's the first. And so I didn't know that we were going to get picked up. So we did, I did it as a, you know what? Whitney Cummings came in. Do you know who she is? Sure. She came over and said, why are you poor? I go, when you...

She says, you get these Oscars for people. Yeah. But you're like, why are you... When did she say this to you? Were you saying she just came over? How did you know? Because she was friends, you know? Yeah, sure.

She came over and she was like... To your house. Mm, New York. And she says, Lee, I get a lot of money. Yeah. I mean, a lot of money. And if you do a TV show, you can get a lot of money. And I go, really?

What kind of money? And then she told me what kind of money. And I said, a lot of money. And if you do a TV show, you can get a lot of money. And I go, really? What kind of money? And then she told me what kind of money. And I said, are you? And she said, yeah. And that's just like a way. I said, okay. So when my partner, who wrote The Butler, came to me and said, okay, let's just do another movie about, we had in common, we loved King Lear. Yeah. And we wanted to do a family about a black sort of hip hop. Black King Lear yeah and we wanted to do

a family about a black sort of hip hop sort of thing yeah we were gonna do it as a film yeah and I said no

let's do it as a TV show right because I think I'm told by my friend Whitney that we can make money so in television yeah

and so we didn't think that the pilot was gonna get picked up because no one was buying African American anything. Mm-hmm. So we literally went off to do, we were going to do, I was going to do Richard Pryor afterwards. And then it got picked up, which meant, oh my God, okay, that's great.

Got to make more. You got to do 13 more. And I said, well, what does that mean? So now we had to sit and think about what that meant as a season yeah and that's time consuming oh yeah and you got a writing room you got a oh it was it was it was like what it was so deep and then i'm making money i am making money yeah and then they and then they say hey lee you want a deal yeah oh sure yeah we like you over here yeah you're making money we had no idea i said so that's the what kind of money because i really have never been motivated by

money right you know the minute and maybe i have been motivated by money but i'll be a little bit i always wanted to do it for like to leave to make sure it's important. Yeah. Or that I could make my kids proud. Right. At the end. That's what's important. Right. For me. Yeah.

But the kids were going to college. And so I said, I ain't got the money. That is the most phallic. This is crazy, this room. I love this room. With the mushroom. With the cat on top. Is it really a penis head?

What is it exactly? It's a mushroom. But I mean, it could be a colorful penis head. A mosaic giant penis head. Yeah. So you're saying the kids are in college. I said I had to put the kids through college. So I decided to.

Twins. Yeah. And 21 now. And they wanted to go to expensive schools, so I was sort of forced into the TV world. But then it became a job. Yeah, cool. There's no end.

No. Oh, yes, there is. Yeah, there is? Mm-hmm. Okay. Not in the foreseeable future, right no because they just they just keep spitting what do you mean they're not but i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm forcing myself to do a film so um but going back to the richard pryor of it all um i'm no longer at this point going to

direct it i'm going to produce it oh okay okay so epps is still moving forward for sure and and there's a script being written the script has been written by you no well i did a pass on the script bill condon oh yeah he's incredible writer um it's very uh bob fossey is very um well that's good all that jazz except uh and he's going to direct it too but no bill's not he was going to direct yeah but he no he's not so we're looking for a director right now oh well so what they based what book they based on or where they didn't base it off anything they just put it together they put it together you know from his life his yeah the document a couple of documentaries um that's exciting some of the kids the wife

oh yeah you had the wife some of the kids not all the kids but a couple of them but let's i i mean like i'm sort of fascinated with like the the sort of nuts and bolts of how you got to where you are from from like was show business the thing in the beginning when you were a kid was that what you saw yourself doing because you're like a you're like a mogul you're like and you've done a lot of different elements of show business. You've been a manager, a producer, a writer, an actor a bit, a director. Well, I'm not really an actor. I only acted because there's nobody else to stand in and say the lines that was good,

so I had to come in and say it. You know what I mean? Right, right. But all that other stuff, and you came up. I'm not an actor. Okay. I tried. Hey, I'm in the first episode of my new season because, again, you know. It's nice.

I'd say one word. That's nice to have you. It's like signing a thing. You know what I mean? There's a guy. It's like Hitchcock in his movie. Yeah. A little bit.

So, but how do you get from Philly to here? I mean, I know it's a long story. The first book I read was literally, I went to the, this is exactly how it was literally i went to the lot this is a this is exactly how it happened i went to the public library i went into the theater section yeah i saw a book that was titled who's afraid of virginia wolf by edward albee i read the book in the library i got a library card i came home i had all my friends on the stoop and my sisters and my brother act out all the parts

Martha and George really everybody yep and and and it sort of just took over

from that point you did a stoop production of stoop production yeah of Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf and then I went to Edward Halby

many years later to ask if I could do it black and he said no did you. Mm-hmm. And then I went to Edward Halby many years later to ask if I could do it black and he said no. Did you really? Mm-hmm. That must have hurt a little. A little. Did he give you any reason

or that was the end of it? Nope. What a bastard. I don't know. I guess he sees it a certain way and I understand that. Yeah, but it's a play.

You release it out into the world. I'm not going to argue with you or Edward Halby. I'd love to do it's a play. You release it out into the world. I'm not going to argue with you or Edward Albee. I'd love to do it as a play. I'd love it. I think it's a great play. You could probably do it. Oh, you wanted to do a movie? Yeah. Oh, you could probably do a play.

I don't think he allowed it. That's a condition? That would be crazy. I believe so. By the way, this can't be done by black people. I believe so. Don't quote me. I won't. So, so you go from there to, like, how old are you when that happens? Eight or nine. Oh, really?

Mm-hmm. So you wanted to be in show business from that point on? I didn't know that it was show business. I didn't really know. But you liked it. I didn't know what it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it wasn't any really, there weren't, you know, my grandfather owned a, didn't own,

he was the manager of a theater. a um didn't own he was the manager of a theater so i saw a lot of black exploitation films as a kid uh shaft and superfly and claudine and the lady sings the blues and a whole there was a period of wonderful cinema yeah with people and then there was um some great television yeah at the time norman lear television yeah was inspirational. But I didn't really know that that was what, I didn't know that that was called a director or a writer

or a creator. Yeah. I just knew that I wanted to be a part of something that I didn't know what it was. So I went to school. Where at?

I went to Lindenwood Colleges in St. Louis, in St. Charles, Missouri. Uh-huh. I don't know why. I don't know why. You don't know why. That was the only place that probably would accept me. You graduated high school and you end up in Missouri.

Went to an all-white high school. All-white high school, which is really interesting, back in the 70s. How was that for you? Fantastic. Yeah? My neighbor was a butler. Yeah. I ended up doing a movie because of him, called The Butler.

And my mom knew that early on that I would get in trouble. The vice principal of my junior high school said that I would amount to nothing, that I was going to end up dead. And my mother said, no, we won't. And Mr. Brodsky is his name. And so my neighbor worked for a chauffeur that owned the Philadelphia Eagles. And he lived in Villanova. Yeah. And so he said, well, why don't we use his address?

Ed Snyder was his name. And we used his address, and he was kind enough to let me. And I literally was transported from an all African-American world to a completely where I was the only spot in the spot. Okay. So it was just me and maybe a couple others. And it was great. I didn't experience racism at all, which is, I don't know how that is, but I didn't, or I was too naive to see it. Yeah.

This is high school. You would have known. Yeah, I would have known. Sure. Yeah, I would have known. Sure. Yeah. I would have. I auditioned for a play called The Sound of Music

and I couldn't understand why it was that they wouldn't give me the role of something Von Trapp. And I was like, why? I did a better audition than this knucklehead. Yeah.

And they gave me Max instead. I played the Nazi, I think. Nazi sympathizer. I think that's all right. That's pretty good casting. There's some power in that. That was my first. It's irony. It was the first job ever.

And the bug was there. Again, I didn't know what it was. And so I went to college to study political science because I wanted to make my dead father happy yeah because he wanted me to be a lawyer and uh isn't that weird how you still honor them even if you're you know your feelings are mixed about them that you still honor them even when you may not want to did you feel did you feel that during that like you, you know, like, like, why am I doing that? Yes. Do you? Well, I do. Like, you know, I, I, what I find is that, you know, my father's still alive and, you know, he has sort of receded a bit in my psyche and in my heart, but, uh, but, you know, I do do things

like him. And I, you know, when I talk to him, I have to make sure that I have some very serious boundaries around who I am and who he is. And sometimes it's emotional. But I try not to show that because I can't afford it. And I'm 53. And I'm going to be stealing what you just did, what you just shared with me. I'm stealing that for a scene or two. Okay. I'm serious because it was so visceral okay

you can you can sometimes you get out of ideas yeah so you know you stay stay with you yeah and i steal that moment that what you just said good and you'll go wait a minute that's it i if you're looking maybe episode 12 in of empire or one of these shows or Or Star. That would be me talking to somebody. Well, good. All right, so you don't do the law thing. I don't do the law thing. I go to, yeah, I don't do the law thing and the political science thing.

And second year into school, I just decided that was a wrap. I was going with this girl from Hawaii. Yeah. And I was finding out who I was sexually. Yeah. You know? Trial and error.

Yeah. And another girl I dated said, you know, you're gay, don't you? And I go, no. And she says, yeah, you are. So I said, you know, so I said, I said, you know. So I said, I said, I want to go to Hollywood. Yeah. And she said, okay, here's 70 bucks.

So I think it's either she gave me 70 bucks. It took a bus. Yeah. And I landed in Hollywood. That was that? Yes. No plan? No.

I'm here. I swear. New week A. Uh-huh. Is that crazy? No. That's crazy. I was homeless forly gay. Uh-huh. Is that crazy? No. That's crazy. I was homeless for a little bit. For a little bit.

Then I had a nursing agency. I went to work at a nursing agency. At those times, I don't know whether they still have them, but the classified ads in the LA Times. And I went and I saw a receptionist and I became a receptionist at a nursing agency and it was like- Just because it was a job? Yeah, no.

It was a job. Oh, no. Interesting. I knew I had a good voice. I knew that I, at a nursing agency. And it was like- Just because it was a job? Yeah, no. It was a job. Oh, no. Interesting. I knew I had a good voice. I knew that, you know. Yeah. And it was a sales job. And so I was selling nurses.

And I knew nothing of nursing. And I could, if your mom got sick or if your dad got sick and they wanted in-home care. Oh, yeah. Or if your wife was having a baby and they need a nanny or whatever. Oh, that kind of stuff. So it was literally like a booking agency for nurses. For nurses. And then a year in, they made me the manager because I was a good sales rep.

And then after that, I was like, why am I doing this? Oh, and I was living out of a church. You know, I was homeless and then I moved into a church and then I was directing theater. That's how it started. I directed theater in the church because they had a theater in the back of the church. And so I was directing in Baldwin Hills. So I was directing theater in the back of a church. They just let you live there?

Well, he found out. Yeah, they found out. They found out. But then I moved. I mean, it wasn't long. It was like three weeks or two weeks or something. Oh, okay. It was short-lived.

I mean, when you're homeless, you go from place to place. You know what I mean? So that was a place. But I remained at that church. And they had a theater, and I was directing one act. Yeah. Still unaware of what it was that I wanted to do. Right.

You know, I went back from acting to directing to really. And then I got a job. wanted to do right you know i went back to from acting to directing yeah really and then um and then i um and then i got a job i got my first apartment in hollywood in the where was the job you mean the nursing agency and then a year into the nursing agency after they made me manager i was like wait a minute hold on something's wrong with this picture. I can do this myself. And so I ended up taking five of their nurses, and I had become friends with all of the, how you get their work there is you become intimate friends with discharge planners at different hospitals and or social workers at different hospitals that call in for help. Right.

And most of them were African-American women. Yeah. And so they would give me work. And before I knew it, I had my own nursing agency. And I had like several hundred nurses that were working for me. I worked out of my apartment. I ended up moving to Wellster and La Brea, my offices. So you were a nurse agent.

Mm-hmm. Still directing theater. One acts in Baldwin Hill at the church. No, I was at that point on Melrose sometimes. We were at the Zephyr. Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, and I had grown a little bit. So you were casting and you were directing.

No, I wasn't casting yet. I was still in theater, and then I still had the nursing agency. But, I mean, how were you putting the plays on? You were directing it, so you cast it, right? Yeah. So you were putting the whole show together. Yeah. So that's how you were starting in show business and you were booking nurses.

Yes. For the real job. But I was, yeah. Got it. And then the producer of Purple Rain came in. Yeah. And asked me if I wanted to, like, he was a client. And he said, what do you want to do?

Oh, at the nurse, at your nursing office okay he come in because you pay the nurse let's say i paid i made a lot of money by the way that was a lot of money to be made and by the way we were the first nursing agency to be under contract with aids project la oh wow which is crazy because no one wanted to touch people with aids right back in those days and our nurses did and so we made a lot of money. And then, you know, that's when the drug use began a lot because I didn't really, you know. You had money. A lot of money.

Running a lot of nurses. And not running a lot of taxes. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. You know, and. So, yeah, let the party begin. Yes, and so. So the guy from Purple Rain.

Came in and I ended up doing casting, you know, and then I was casting. I mean, you know, I was... What do you mean? He said... He said, what do you want to do? And I said, I want to do... I'm in the entertainment business. He said, how can you be in the entertainment business when you're taking care of my father?

I said, well, I want to be in the entertainment business. He said, well, this is what you do. become a pa as a pa okay so then um with a successful business you're running your own business and the guy offers he says a pa job yeah i sold the nursing agency to become a pa i sold the nursing agency for a lot of money and i drove on to the set of warner brothers with a armani suit, a Porsche, and a Newport cigarette. Yeah. And ready for my PA job. And that didn't last very long.

I went into casting and then became friendly with Prince and, you know. Wait. I'm sorry. So you PA'd on Purple Marine. Mm-hmm. That was casting sort of. But I was fired. I mean, if you IMDB me, I'm not even listed as credit. I mean, that's literally-

But you go as a PA and they use you for casting? Yeah, because he was, you know, it was all about our connection and it was the suits against, you know, the black men. Like, we knew, I had an eye for talent then yeah and i didn't know that that was my god gift then your connection with prince you mean after you met prince yes right okay so we yeah the irony is is that clarence williams the third was in that film yeah and i i cast him in that and then years later i get to direct him in the butler yeah that's crazy crazy it was like crazy crazy crazy yeah luke from mod squad yeah i know he's good he's so good he's so good anyway so um

american gangster he's good american gangster genius you're good in your movie yeah yeah he's great but um so so that starts you you and you now was prince and then did we friends with prince did you get friendly friend Lee ish do you know what I mean sure in the beginning you know yeah

and then we did Under the Cherry Moon and then the music videos a bunch of music videos with Prince mhm mhm and um

so that's a good way but Warner's was really happy with me and I started working over at Warner Brothers and and I was like head of minority

talent they called it that I don't know what the hell it was something like that I don't know and I was like head of minority talent. They called it that? I don't know what the hell it was something like that and I don't know and it's like all I know is is that you know I was casting and it was like before it was

pre Spike Lee and post the black exploitation era so I was sitting there with a pencil and a suit feeling important like I was a businessman you know on the Warner lot. Minority talent.

I guess something like that. So you were a casting agent at the studio, basically. Sort of, yeah. Yes. Kind of development, too? No, no development at all. And then I discuss it. Wait a minute.

Hold on. This is, I didn't, I wasn't getting fulfilled. So part of the job was watching, going to theater. Right. And watching, I'd long given up the desire or didn't even know, like I had no longer done directing theater. And so I was going to see plays and part of it was seeing all these black plays in New York, in LA, in Chicago. What year is this?

This, I don't know. Yeah. What's going on? What were the big plays? Gossip Book, Colonus, Morgan Freeman. Oh, yeah. I guess it was just post-Dreamgirls, post-Dreamgirls, because I was a kid when Dreamgirls was out. So I don't remember the year.

But you're scouting. Mm-hmm. Talent. Yeahgirls was out so I don't remember the year but but you're a scouting talent yeah but for what I don't know exactly minority scouting so I decided

making a dossier of minority talent and so with that oh and I met this wonderful woman who changed my life who

her name was Paula Kelly and I had seen her in Sweet Charity on in the in the film in Sweet Charity on, in the film. Yeah. Sweet Charity with Shirley MacLaine

and Chita Rivera and I saw her in Sophisticated Ladies with Gregory Hines on Broadway and I said, why aren't you working? I need to see you working.

I said, light bulb, I'm going to manage you and so we, I opened a management company where I was managing actors and, and,

and, you know,. And, you know, I came from a place where, as a kid, you know, a lot of my family members and neighbors were drug dealers. So, you know, or pimps. You need a hustle? Is that what you're getting at? Yeah, and so I figured, you know, I would do it with actors. and so i figured you know i would do it with actors and so it was really you pimped nurses for a while yeah yeah sort of um and how did you start to build like because you had a good reputation i had a really well i don't know whether it was a

good reputation i had but you know i got i made sure that my talent was working the problem was was that they did not have roles that i felt were suitable for um the actors that i was working with and it was embarrassing telling them that they could just play a pimp or a drug dealer or a prostitute at the time and so um but i learned the game yeah i started representing young white kids and that's when it changed you know yeah and so um and then that took me around the world yeah you know and i represented i don't know from and then i ended up representing european nastasia kinski um as raria rai in india it was like you know the bollywood princess and what

changed the game for me was when i started representing a kid named west bentley i found him in a play and he he then starred in American Beauty. Oh, that's that movie, My Big Break. The documentary. My Big Break? About Wes and the people he lived with. Oh, yeah. Good for you.

Good for you. I haven't seen it, though. What do you mean? Should I see it? Well, I knew you were featured in it somehow. How? Well, I mean, Wes is in it. Yeah, I have to see it.

I'm about halfway through it. Is it getting good? Well, it's weird to watch. They were all high. Well, no. They may have been. They were all high. I don't know.

We were all high for sure. But there was two or three of them made it out of that house. Wes and then Michael Shannon. I found him in Chicago. Was Michael Shannon? Yeah. You managed him at the beginning? In the very beginning.

I got him his first job. I got him a SA. Michael Shannon? Yeah. You managed him at the beginning? In the very beginning. I got him his first job. I got him a SAG card in the movie that I produced. It was the second film called The Woodsman. Yeah. With Kevin Bacon? Mm-hmm. Kira Sedgwick. I produced that.

That was my second. My first movie. So I ended up leaving management because I got tired of telling African-American actors, you can only play this. I got to create something. I got to realize I got to take it. I got to up my game. What was the name of your management agency?

Lee Daniels, a management company. So you did all right with it. How long were you doing that? I don't know. Eight years. So that's how, wow, that's an amazing story, really. So then I said, I got tired of that, and I said, I'm going to make my own destiny.

Yeah. And I ended up producing my first film. And it was, you know, I don't know how I did it, but we did it in Monsters Ball. That's a real hammer of the movie. And that's the way to start a career. I didn't know that I was doing what I was doing, but I just was doing it. Yeah. Doing whatever I could do to make sure that this movie, this vision was executed. How did that come to you? The writers came to me because at the time there were many incarnations.

I believe Sean Penn, Robert De Niro, and Marlon Brando were attached at one time. Oh, wow. That's big. Yeah. And they just couldn't get the movie made. And so the writers came to me and, um, and I said, I'll do it. Let's, let's figure it out. And, um, Wes Bentley was going to star. He didn't. And, um, and so I got Heath to star instead because he was a friend of Wes's. And that really began my career. As a producer. Well, you know, Puffy, I don't know what, I guess as a producer you could say that. Why wouldn't you say that?

What would you say? Well, because I did more than that. I mean, I was very much involved with the acting. Sure. You knew what you wanted. You saw it. So you sort of were a secret co-director? I don't know whether I

I don't think that that's the right word to say because as a director now I would take deep offense to it. I think Mark Forrester is a genius and I think but I knew that I knew I wanted performances from and I learned from Mark how to hold a camera and I learned really On set? Literally. I learned the makings of what how to hold a camera. And I learned really how to. On set.

Literally. I learned the makings of how to direct in that medium. And also from the medium from when I was on set with other actors. So that was that. And then I did. So this is how you went to school? On set. I learned how to direct from other directors that I respect. I put my actors with directors that I respected.

And now we're at the point where you're going to direct a movie. Yeah. And it was the first movie I directed. Well, I was getting cocky, you know? Yeah. I was getting cocky and I was still, you know. Sure. Yeah.

And I believed the press. On you. I believed. After Monster's Ball. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You believe Sure. Yeah. And I believed the press. On you. Believed. After Monster's Ball. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You believe it. Yeah.

And you're doing coke. Mm-hmm. Oh, that's a bad combination. Oh, you're basing too? Whatever. I got whatever up. Yeah, sure. I've never done heroin.

Oh, that's a lie. I did once. I threw up. I couldn't take it anymore. I had the exact same experience with heroin. Never. Did you? The exact same experience.

I'll never do it again. Snorted it. Me too. Got itchy. Oh, my God. Threw up. Me too. Yeah too yeah and i'm like i don't need this never did you even get high no not i don't remember no i tried it one other time where i smoked it and i definitely felt the high but still not for me i go up i don't like to go down yeah me too i'm with oh dude yeah it would have been trouble if we do each other but anyway so um so why not? I mean, he was a critics darling.

And the same thing with Woodsman. We won Cannes. It was heavy, man. Kevin playing a child monster. Wasn't that it? Well, yeah. But the thing was, I wanted to not. I remember after Monster's Ball, like, okay, he's new on the scene.

What are they going to? And so I got offered all these black films. Right. Just were everything that I didn't want my clients as a manager to do right they're like he's the minority guy again leprechauns from the hood part seven oh i was like what's one two three four five six yeah you know what is that i've never even heard it and stuff so i wanted to do something different and i had gotten my kids my kids my you know my i raised my brother's kids i got my what happened he happened to your brother? He was going to jail. Oh.

And he called me up and he said, can you come? My wife is going to have some kids and she won't take care of them. Can you take care of them? I was like, no. No. I'm partying. Yes, exactly.

I was in Palm Springs at a white party. Hi, as a kite. I had no intention. But my partner at the time, who was a very famous casting director in L.A., in New York, wanted kids. And so three days after they were born, I got them. And I didn't want them at first.

You know, the mother rang the doorbell um of my mother's house and left two bassinets down come on in philadelphia in the winter and took off before my mom opened the door you're kidding me and my mom said almost biblical it is it is and my mom yeah it is wow let me look at it like that my mom said call me up and said listen i've raised all of you and i've raised all these other grandkids yeah i'm not raised no more yeah so i'm calling social services if you don't come get them so i said really and my partner was like okay that's what i want to do so we ended up um taking them and um and that's when I got off of drugs. Right.

Because I was, you know, I remember them like they were two-ish. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. And they were in front of the TV. Yeah. And I was living on the Upper West Side. And I remember stepping over them and going out to the man around the corner.

Uh-huh. And realizing that I had left them in the house. Ah. And I said, that's it. And that was the end. I never, and that was the end. Is that beautiful though? That was the end of that. The drugs.

Yes. Well, just the fact that you realized that you were putting these young lives in danger and that was more powerful than drugs. That's good. You've got a good heart. I thought when I got them that I was saving them and they ended up saving me.

That's sometimes the way it works. So your brother's still in jail? He just came out recently. It was great. He was FaceTiming me with my sister in the car. He hadn't been in jail for forever and like years and years and years. And he's FaceTiming me and you could see that he was like, it was like the Jetsons. He was trying to figure out how to hold the FaceTime. It was hysterical.

That's wild. Yeah. Now you guys, have you seen him in person yet? I did. I saw him last Sunday and for the first time. Oh, my God. How was that? Powerful.

I can't imagine. Powerful. He sent me a letter towards the, we separated. Yeah. We didn't, we weren't friends. Yeah. We were very close. Yeah.

And then he went in one direction and I went in another direction. He sent me a letter from jail. Yeah. And he said, I'm sorry for hating you all these years. Oh. Just because. I guess I was gay.

Yeah. And it affected me deeply. Yeah. Yeah. And are you guys all right? I mean, you know. Yeah. This is all right as we can do with all the years

that have been separated. You know? So, you know. Yeah. This is all right as we can do with all the years that have been separated. You know. So more to come. Yeah. We'll see. I think we're okay. We're going through it in a good way. Look at, he was so happy.

I gave him a whole box of clothes. Like a whole bunch of clothes. I don't know whether this is personal to be sharing with everybody. But I gave him a whole bunch of clothes. I don't care. He don't care either. Yeah. I gave him a whole bunch of clothes. I don't care. He don't care either. Yeah. I gave him a whole bunch of clothes.

And what you take for granted, what I take for granted, I forget. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he must have been appreciative. He is very appreciative. He came dressed up looking like a... When I saw him, I said, damn, you look like Lee Daniels. When I saw him, I said, damn, you look like Lee Daniels.

So how do you get, like, I imagine it's going to be interesting with the kids now too, huh? Yeah. Oh. I mean, literally, this is what I'm going through right now in my life. Wow. I got to write about it. And making TV. Mm-hmm. Huh.

Well, that's why I go into the world to escape. Yeah. Because when I come back, i got to deal with this mess well is it a mess or is it a mess but yeah it's messy it's heavy it's messy yeah yeah it's just we're trying to make we're trying to make a lot the kids are great yeah they're fantastic it's just us that you know and how he's dealing with it yeah what's gonna happen oh yeah yeah but the kids are solid they're just like they're clear she's in paris spending my money in schools and film school he's in new york modeling making a lot of money uh-huh he's fabulous everybody's good and then you got the old man's out yeah

and that's like now what happens oh man there's a movie coming wow well that's interesting so let's talk about we're gonna run out of time because i know you got to run in about 10 minutes so let's talk about, we're going to run out of time because I know you've got to run in about 10 minutes. So let's talk about, I want to talk about how Precious happened. How did you come across that story? Sapphire is amazing. Didn't she just? I tore to force. Unbelievable.

Did you read the book? I did read the book. It shook me to my core. She's written a few things. It shook me to my core. She shook me to my core. I couldn she shook me to my core i couldn't sleep how'd you come across the book it got was part of my sobriety get it was i had that in a book called ice which by the way you should see by ray shell i had on that too that's going to

be something else i'm turning ice iced dude iced rush out and get a copy if you can get a copy i mean it's yeah it's out of print but it's pretty good so i have precious i push and iced and they sort of um and and this other thing yeah paper boy um that um became a movie dexter yeah and the three of those books got me sober um helped me with my sobriety and um how so by connecting you to i don't know other people's experience your heart i mean i don't i don't know what it was about all of it but you know i think that the the african-american experience viewed from that person really i don't know yeah i hear you just i just part of the what i was going through yeah and i decided to say i want to make it a movie and um and when i went to everybody that you know with all the awards that I had, they were like, no.

So I had to go out and raise money for it. And I did. And we made a great film I'm really proud of. Unbelievable. Unbelievable film. And you did it all on your own. They turned you away. Yes.

But I'm used to being turned away. Yeah. From the very beginning, from Monsters Ball on, they said, well, because nobody wanted to see the movie. Who wants to see a movie, an interracial, you know? But isn't that a tremendous, you know, in retrospect, you know, like now with Empire, isn't that a tremendous misunderstanding of the audience? Oh, for sure. I mean, you know, yeah. I think that, you know,

they continue to underestimate the intelligence of the American public. That's for sure. Not just the African American public, but the American public of what it is. So it's my job

and it's other, it's filmmakers' jobs to educate, say, okay, this is what you're gonna see. Right. This is what you're gonna see. And when. This is what you're going to see. And when you do it your way, you can do that. Yeah.

Right? Yep. Because I just saw the headline of some article that because of franchises, directors are interchangeable, but that's why people like you who have artistic freedom and license and want to push the boundaries, you've got to keep making your own movies. Yes. Yeah. And now you can.

It's like, which one? That's the question. That's the question. But I'm excited with Empire and Star. I think that... And I'm not complaining about TV. I shouldn't complain about TV because it really is I'm enjoying telling stories.

It's a lot more immediate, isn't it, than movies in a way? And you can shift and move. I mean, if you can assign people you trust, you got to hand over your baby to somebody and pray that the actors know that they understand what this vision is so you got to pray that the that the showrunner knows and the actors remember and then you're

solid well have you been like you know coming into that i mean how much because you got some pretty powerful actors and you know when you i would imagine after a season, you don't have to ride them too much. No. They get it. I'm good with both shows, as a matter of fact. I think, yes, I think that they're, they have enormous talent on this show. I've been blessed. I've been really blessed.

I've been really blessed. You know, as I sit here and I can actually laugh about the homeless joke, that I'm homeless, and yet I started out homeless. And I preferred that homeless, because that homeless, at least I knew how to dream. I'm dreamed. Yeah. You know, and I'm shifting my spirits like wherever the couch is and also

we open this conversation by talking about how horrible things are in the country and in reaction to that

you know given that you are telling a lot of these stories that you tell how do you adjust now

do you adjust do you push harder are you making adjustments in your mind given that we are now living in unabashed uh uh i've learned that that um am i allowed to curse yeah i don't give a fuck that's what i've learned uh-huh that i will say what the fuck i want to say i will write what the fuck I want to do because that's exactly what they're doing right now in the White House. And I think that you, but yeah, I will try to do it with dignity. You know, it only makes me want to, it makes me know that I'm right,

that my spirit is right and it's clean and that it's from a pure place. And though a lot of, as I said before, a lot of people may not want to hear it, I'm going to say it. Yeah, you got to. You got to. Thanks for talking, man. It was beautiful. Yeah, man. Okay, that's it.

That is it. That's the show. Don't forget to pre-order your copy of Waiting for the Punch and then enter yourself in our podcast fan sweepstakes. Go to markmaronbook.com to pre-order and enter the sweepstakes. I wasn't going to play guitar because I'm sick, but people have been liking the dirty guitar. I'm going to go in the house,

and I'm going to get my Stratocaster. Thank you. Boomer lives! We'll be right back. by region. See app for details. Calgary is an opportunity rich city home to innovators, dreamers, disruptors, and problem solvers. The city's visionaries are turning heads around the globe across all sectors each and every day. They embody Calgary's DNA, a city that's innovative, inclusive, and creative. And they're helping put Calgary and our innovation ecosystem on the map as a place where people come to solve some of the world's greatest challenges. Calgary is on the right path forward. Take a closer look out at calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com.