WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 854 - Marilyn Manson

Episode Date: October 11, 2017

Despite being born Brian Warner, Marilyn Manson doesn't separate his stage persona from who he is as a person. That makes for an interesting chat with Marc in the garage. Marilyn talks about his early years getting kicked out of Christian school, being beaten up for playing the triangle in the school band, and starting up a poetry night for his first taste of performing. He also talks about becoming friends with Alice Cooper, patching things up with Trent Reznor, and getting a kick out of David Lynch. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth

at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Lock the gate! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck nicks what the fuckocrats what is happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast

wtf welcome to it uh if you're new here because of the the uh the the juice I got in that Parade Magazine piece. Who knew? Who knew that I would be on the cover of Parade Magazine? And I thought it was a tremendous... I think when I got on the cover of my college alumni magazine, Boston University alumni magazine, I thought that was something because there was a bit of fuck you in that. There was a bit of, yeah, fuck you, because I had one time,

there was a time when I did a stand-up show at the college, made fun of the then president of the college, John Silber, and was erased from the event in the Alumni Magazine. And so being on the cover of it years later was definitely satisfying. But Parade, Parade magazine, I didn't even know. I honestly didn't know it still existed. And I'm happy it exists because, to be honest with you, and I think they talked about this a bit on that uh on the sidebar of the parade piece along with the

a fairly thorough definition of what a podcast is um which i thought was good it shows you who the audience is and in in in and to be honest it's important that the people of that generation do get hip to the podcast it would be nice nice. We don't want the numbers to plateau completely. But nonetheless, Parade Magazine was something that I looked forward to a great deal when I was younger. The My Favorite Jokes section of Parade Magazine, which was, in my recollection, around the last page, when I was 10, 11, 12 years old,

was the best thing that existed in the world. I would go just rummage through the paper until I found parade. Do I get to that back page with some sweaty comedian, a pig picture of a, of Rodney Dangerfield, buddy Hackett, all the comics of that era in the seventies were on the back. And then some of the older guys,

and it would just be a picture of them, their name and a bunch of their jokes written out. And I loved it, I remember looking forward to it and reading them over and over again and it really planted a seed in my head that comedy was important and something amazing and something that I eventually wanted

to be part of so thank you to Parade for putting me on the cover and thank you for inspiring me as a very young person to respect and enjoy jokes written down on the page. By the way, Marilyn Manson is the guest today on the show. He was here a few weeks ago before the stuff fell on him at the beginning of his tour. Sadly, he was, I think partially uh crushed a bit by some props i believe he's okay but this was recorded before all that and it was an interesting

conversation because look i know who marilyn manson was i didn't grow up with his music per se but he was certainly a theatrical force and certainly a musical force to uh to a certain generation of youngsters. But the spectacle of Marilyn Manson is pretty insanely compelling. And when I got the opportunity to talk to him, I took it. He came over and I'll be honest with you. And I don't think Marilyn would mind me saying, I think he was a little loopy. Maybe I'll say more about that before I intro him in a few minutes.

But he's a witty guy and a bright guy, and I think the conversation went pretty well for a while. It was good. It was good. It was good to see him and good to meet him. But speaking of writing,ndan mcdonald and myself went uh we were at barnes and noble in union square new york city on tuesday night doing our our presentation for waiting for the punch words to live by from the wtf podcast by myself and brendan and it was great over 300 people

showed up standing room only and brendan and i get there. We got the book and Brendan sort of takes the lead and, you know, throws some stuff at me. I react to it. Sometimes like he'll throw something at me. He'll get me worked up. And that's always fun for the audience. We talk a little bit about how it all came about. And just people get to know Brendan a little bit if they don't know him already. And it was a great event.

A lot of people, like like i said a lot of people came honestly came this is not a uh i'm not manufacturing numbers okay i i don't have any problem admitting uh success or failure i will admit both i'm fairly candid like that but this was definitely a success and we signed hundreds of books we stayed for two hours met all the fans signed the books. I even met some cousins I didn't know I had. But it was a great event and people seemed to be enjoying the book. I also did the New York Times book review podcast.

I don't know when that's on, but that was a nice conversation. And we did the gist. Brendan and I both did that. And that's coming up. Yeah, so it was fun to be in New York for two days it was a quick two days I uh hung out with my pal Sam Lipsight the genius writer Sam Lipsight uh I would take a look at his books I I just want to uh I'm here to sell books for not only me but for my buddy Sam Lipsight it's so nice to hang out with a pal that you see not as often as you'd like and

you just sit there and you eat some fish and you laugh for a few hours. Quality time. Hung out with my buddy, Jim Loftus. He used to be in politics. He used to be at the state house. Now he's up in New Hampshire. Kind of holed up, not in a frightening way, but in a sort of like thinking about stuff way.

And we talked for a little bit about the state of the world. I get, you know know i've got advisors i've got i've got advisors that were uh you know once uh within the government i there's people i reach out to and you know try to get the pulse on uh you know when do we flee i think is uh it's a big question when when when do we when do we take off? When does that happen? What else can I report to you? Other than we're very excited about the book. We're doing another event this Friday.

That's tomorrow in San Francisco at the Alamo Drafthouse through the Litquake Fest. I think you can go to litquake.org maybe to see if there's any tickets left for that. If you want to get your copy of the book, if you haven't gotten your copy of the book yet, you can go to wherever you buy books, or you can go to markmarrenbook.com. For those of you who got the

nameplates, the book plates, the signed nameplates for the book, those are being delivered separately from the book so ease up on the emails it's coming i'm not i wouldn't steer you wrong it's coming you know i've gotten some emails lately about you know me getting off caffeine me getting off nicotine people wanting to get sober and whatnot i'll tell you what's interesting about where I'm at right now. And I don't like to admit this, I don't think,

is that I have gotten off the caffeine in the coffee form. You know, I think that caffeine and tea is different. I've been drinking green tea, no nicotine. And I got to tell you, I'm a lot calmer. I'm a lot less prone to spinning out. I'm a lot less exhausted. I'm less queasy. I'm less in need of a nap in the middle of the day. I'm a little thick. I feel like things are staying

with me in the forms. I don't think food is moving through me as quickly as it once did. I think everything has slowed down a bit, but if I'm slowly adjusting to the ground zero of who I am energetically and biologically, well, great. Then maybe I can sort of work from there, but nothing is exacerbated right now. The anxiety is there. The tension is there. The fear is there, but I'm also like able, it's not consuming me because it's not, the volume isn't turned up to 90 with caffeine, with coffee specifically and nicotine taking the edge off on the bottom end. But then ultimately going both ways when you don't expect it. So oddly, I got to tell you, coffee makes you more aggravated. Genius, right? I'm glad I did the homework on that one. Coffee makes you more aggravated genius right i'm glad i did the homework on that

one coffee makes you more aggravated now marilyn manson was here and i i don't why would he have a problem in fact like i he came into the house he got his buddy with him it's like 6 6 30 at night i say hi i walk up to him i shake his his hand. He's a very large man, tall. And I smelt a familiar smell of just sort of a being saturated with alcohol. I know the smell. And then, like, it took me a while to realize, because I just want you, I think, I don't think this is a negative preface. I think, you know, it's not, people know that, you know, that Marilyn Manson likes to,

you know, likes to live the life. And it took me a while to realize that I think maybe, you know, the way he coveted his water bottle in here and then when he took it with him, when he left, it was a Fiji water bottle that he was drinking slowly

that, you know, when we left the garage, it was, it probably had about a quarter left in it and he hung on to it. And I think that if you listen, you know, as the conversation goes on, you can, you can feel it a little bit. You can feel the, he's getting a little, a little loopy as a, as I like to call it. And, but, you know, it's cool. You know, this garage is a a safe it's a safe space if you want to have a cocktail i've had people come over here with cases of beer with weed with

cigarettes with a little booze in a in a water bottle whatever you need to get through man who am i to judge right so marilyn manson his new album is heaven upside down it's available now and although he had to cancel some of the early dates on his tour we were told by his reps this week that he's recuperating at home in la and he's on the mend so there you go so this is me and marilyn manson in parentheses, Brian Warner. Okay? It was fun. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything.

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Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer.

I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It was fun.

My guitar is called Excalibur. I bought my guitar in New Orleans. Yeah. At a pawn shop right next door to where I recorded Antichrist Superstar in 1995-ish. Yeah. And it's an old Ibanez. It's sort of, I think it used to be white, but it's yellowed with age. But it weighs heavier than most girls that I've had fornication with.

No, it's really heavy. I mean, it's like 90 pounds heavy. Which Ibanez? Is it like a Les Paul copy or is it a double cutaway? No, it's like a Les Paul copy. But it's a 70s one. Yeah, sure, sure. But it wrote a lot of great, not great songs, but it wrote Beautiful People, Dope Show. Those are great songs.

Big hits, man. Big hits. I'm not saying that the guitar wrote them. I'm saying that the guitar might have been used while writing them. Well, so it was part of it. Yes, the guitar is part of it. So, and you bought it in New Orleans. For $400.

It was a lot of money then. Sure. But everything has a ritualistic kind of status. Because it's just the way you set it up. Well, no. It has a... Yeah, you bought it in New Orleans, $400. It used to be white.

It's like a totem. But some guys have it. Someone told me the other night, I i talking to randy newman's son he said that bob dylan gave neil young hank williams guitar that's important that's got to be a magic guitar right and i'm friends with shooter jennings yeah it's not related to hank williams no but it's it's the legacy the legacy sure and i think that when we were talking about earlier about Keith who I've never formally met

are you a fan of course especially of him you have to be right yeah I've met Mick many times but Keith is like

the one of the original dark guys Keith is dark yeah he's darkness he's great he's one of the prince of darkness yeah and

I just remember I remember he has a weird tuning that removes one string from his guitar. Five string guitar. Yeah, it's amazing. Open D or G or something. Yeah. So I think that I called it Excalibur. Yeah.

Because I'm not traditionally a guitar player. In fact, if you want to know my exact tuning yeah it's eb eb be so it's almost open tuning but i like to play with an open e yeah billy corgan taught me that tuning he did so i learned how to play that tuning sort of i i believe in at some point i had a guild guitar which was not excalibur but it was a guild but I cracked it electric yeah I cracked the neck on it so

it happens so you do the kind of an open E-ish tuning so Billy gave you that tuning so you could just play with your one finger mostly yeah

cause you need all other fingers for doing the middle fingers yeah I actually sing with my left hand I'm right-handed.

Yeah. You want to know why? Why? Because I used to have to catch bottles being thrown at me. That's really, that's true. You had to have your right hand active. I still have the dexterity to keep track of not being hit by bottles. Are they still being thrown at you?

Every now and then. Someone bit me on the dick at my last show. What was your dick doing now? I went into the... It was an out. It was in like a freestyle dick buddy. Dick in pant. Dick in leotard. Dick in pant.

Or whatever. No leotard. I don't know. Okay, fair enough. These pants. These are the same pants. I haven't changed them since then. You've gone through a lot of things. I can change a lot of things, but not my pants. These are the same pants. I haven't changed them since then. Why don't you... You've gone through a lot of things. I can change a lot of things, but not my pants. Okay. All right.

No, I jumped into the barricade. Yeah. And I was singing to the crowd. Yeah. I remember what city it was. I think it might have been somewhere in upper Eastern Europe. Maybe the Kievs or the Russians. The Balkans.

Somewhere far up. This is recently? Somewhere... Yes, this is recently? Somewhere, yes. This is a month ago. And someone bit hard onto where my dick is. They didn't get the dick, but they got the part of the pant where the dick belongs.

They were intending. But my dick ducked. It went, it swerved like a Matrix dick. But they wouldn't let go and I had to point my microphone at them because my microphone actually is a knuckle duster. Oh, yeah. A real one.

Like brass knuckles? Yeah. That kind of situation? We're not allowed to tell anyone that it's really brass knuckles, but it is really brass knuckles. So I just had to point it at the girl biting my dick. It was a girl? Yeah, but she had glasses on.

My mother, God rest her soul, always said, don't hit a girl with glasses. I'm glad you threw out a line. So that saved her. That was what saved her? You couldn't handle the diplomatic. You weren't going to hit her either way. No, but I mean, if she would have got foreskin, I would have really got upset. Maybe you would have reacted.

It would have hurt one of us. Someone would have walked out of have hurt yeah yeah just one of us someone would have walked out of there in pain well what do you what are you wearing up there now what's your what's your current get up well i uh coincidentally had to leave a fitting for my clothing just to come all the way down here to your garage to do this oh thank you i appreciate that what is what is the fitting for the new uh adventure well, I'd consider it somewhere between Kramps and Alice Cooper and Ziggy Stardust. Standard Marilyn Manson attire. But the apocalypse now joining it. Oh, some Vietnam.

Some Martin Sheen. Oh, yeah. And then you get a little bit of, remember Lawrence Fishburne when he was 17? Yeah. In that movie. Yeah.

He's great. Did he get shot with an arrow? No, that was the other guy who got a spear. Yeah. Vince Furman got shot. He just got regular shot. Yeah, regular shot.

I really liked, it's strange, the last time I saw my father in Los Angeles because he died recently in ohio canton ohio is that where you're from yeah he died in the hospital i was born in and he was born in canton ohio recently and so i dedicated this record to him but i won't want to be you know morose about it because my father would not like that. What kind of dude was he? He was the guy who used to say, since I was in fifth grade,

I can't look back until now and think that I went in a time machine and said, Dad, I'm only 12, and you're saying to my friends in Christian school, have you ever sucked a sweeter dick than mine? And his whole joke about that was, was well you still sucked a dick either way that was his whole joke that he thought was funny and i'm at the time i just was like you were 12 stop saying that but now it's really hilarious because he was saying that to middle school kids what was his job my dad was uh well he was in Vietnam. I think he was part of some sort of CIA black ops doing Napalm and Agent Orange. He definitely played Agent Orange, but I don't know.

Was he a pilot? He was a helicopter mechanic. No kidding. Yeah. So he came back all right? Well, I'm not really sure how he was before that because I was a boy. He came back and then made me with his own personal semen. Sure.

Good. Out of his own. Old style. Old school. Family style. But you didn't get a sense that it haunted him somehow or anything like that? He never talked to me about it until about two years ago. Really?

No. Until about two years ago. Really? Yeah. And he said, as I was actually watching Apocalypse Now, and I had it freeze-framed on my wall, because I have a projector on my wall that I like to watch movies on. Yeah. And he drove cross-country from Ohio in a...

To see the movie? Disgusting yellow Corvette. And I said, Dad, stop flaunting my wealth with such an ugly car colored like a chiclet and i was kind of pissed just the color of the car but yeah but i didn't he said he was coming to visit me you bought it for him you just gave him he bought it on his own without telling me essentially so yes i bought it for him yeah but i don't regret that i just regret the color of it that wasn't an old one no it was brand new yellow horribly new it would be something that you would want to fight the person that drove it yeah so i made him put a car cover

over it in front of my house because i didn't want anyone trying to fight me because of his car but so you're watching apocalypse now yeah I had it freeze-framed, and he said it was the most accurate portrayal of Vietnam. And my entire life, he had always said he had never drank or done drugs ever. Yeah. And that day, and this is about three years ago, and he just started telling me things he had never said.

And he wasn't saying it in the sarcastic, apple and tree falling far from each other right away right i always divert to sarcasm when i'm in a situation where it's too emotional right i'll say something funny right or what i think is funny yeah or inappropriate but he started saying to me uh that it was his job to basically kill women and children, and he got good at it, and he was supposed to because it was his job, and it was really tough to come home from that, and not in a PTSD way, in a way that how do you replace that part of you?

And I was trying to relate to it in some way, and I really couldn't. And then he said to me, it's probably just the same as you when you come off stage, son. And that was really a weird comparison, but I guess that was the way he looked at it, and that was a strange thing to say to me. Well, maybe he was talking about that zone you enter

with all that cortisol and dopamine. Well, it's your job and you're supposed to do what you do. You know, of course, the difference between me on stage and off is on stage I'm speaking to people I've never met. Off stage I'm talking to people

that I just met just now with you. Or people that I know. And you're performing for hundreds of thousands of people. And you're performing for hundreds of and then you're seducing people as a rock star but there's no way i don't think that that compares to what he did but in some way he related the two yeah it was unusual words of advice do you find that like you know that his uh so you weren't brought up with religion? I grew up in Christian school, but my parents were not actually religious. What did your mom do?

Well, let me start with my father before he went to Vietnam was studying to be a Jesuit priest. So they were Catholic. Yeah. My mother was Episcopalian, and she was a hillbilly from the Appalachian Mountains. Yeah. So that's a Sioux Indian part of me. So I got half, you know, rain dance of me. You think so?

Oh, yeah. I make it rain, make it stop raining. I've made it rain before. Yeah. And I don't mean like in a strip art way. You mean like... No, I believe in, you know, Indian magic. Okay.

like no i believe in you know indian magic okay but um my father was always really secretive about his past but i mean his side of the family was polish yeah you know came from you know immigrant i mean immigrants so you don't have to hide that no no no i just say no no he didn't hide it it was just he was he but he was the Catholic part. So they sent me to Christian school so I would get a good education. Not Catholic school, Christian school. Right, because my dad got, you had the ruler that's like, nuns with the ruler. But my grandmother, his mother, used to make me kneel on a broomstick

if I ever cursed in her house. Have you ever knelt on a broomstick? With your knees on it? Yeah. That fucking hurts. That's worse than the rice under the knees. Where do you even learn that? Catholic school, I guess.

Huh. But no, it's really painful. Yeah. It gives you bad knees. Yeah. Because I cursed a lot. So it really fucked you up. So I was not Catholic growing up.

I went to a Christian school. Which is? It was non-denominational. So I was not Catholic growing up. I went to a Christian school. Which is? It was non-denominational, and it was weird. So what was it based on? Just that vague kind of starry-eyed Jesus. Like Catholic, you get a lot of other things going on. You got outfits. Yeah, you got costumes.

Thousands of years of history. Which relates to my new video which i right you just try to show you yeah i was showing you you showed me stills of it nuns with guns but i think that that i didn't even come up with the idea as much as a guy that uh bill uh who traveled with me he's bill you could he traveled with me. He's Bill Yukich. He traveled with me during the era of Antichrist Superstar. He was on tour with me, and he had to be in the thick of it. So it was almost like being in warfare because we had so many death threats.

And I can't not anticipate trouble from this, but I just thought it was a time, rather than talk about politics, just to divert the attention to talking about things that are more interesting or pointing things in a different direction. But don't you like doing that? I mean, aren't you hoping that'll... I love when there's a shitty president because it makes me seem like the smartest person in America when I go to Europe. Yeah.

It's very easy. Yeah. But don't you like provoking i mean especially now of course the uh like this weird uh now this attempt to to meld you know the the christian right with the nationalistic right there's there's plenty of crossover but now there's more of a concerted effort to make it really happen like you might that's a good block to piss off for you right it well it seems it seems not unlike when i put out antichrist superstar because i was making fun of the christian right and the fascist element of america yeah who was so busy when i was growing up in

school condemning you know i i really feel and this is not condoning any sort of ism yeah i just feel like they always focused on one of the others like you got communism you got nazism you got but what about americanism right what happened to that yeah like if anyone's national socialist it would be america for the most part so I tried to make that into a statement that was partly religious-pointed, partly political, and partly rock star. And that's where I started. And I knew I was called a shock rocker, so I put a lightning bolt like Bowie did, but I actually trademarked the lightning bolt that you get on the back of your toaster

or whatever it might be. Because no one ever thought to do that, and I did it yes sir i did so let me let me ask you this way because i was like i was poking around doing research and antichrist superstar and revelation 12 do you know that's supposed to happen this month well yes i do you do but that would be but that would be revelations 12 revelations 12. Revelations 12, yeah. But I did a small nod to the Beatles with Revolution number nine. On the new record? Revelation.

Number 12. 12. Right. Yeah, so I didn't put the S on it. Right. And also I wanted to reclaim the pound sign on the phone. It's not being a hashtag. Yeah.

Because I was sick of people calling it a hashtag. Well, now it's another. It's a pound. It will always be a pound sign on the phone is not being a hashtag. Yeah. Because I was sick of people calling it a hashtag. Well, now it's another. It's a Twitter. It will always be a pound sign on your phone. Yeah. You'll never have a phone where it's not a pound sign. Right. Except in some strange future.

But yes, I did know that. But people say, oh, the world's coming to an end. But they said that in 1984, that's when I started to be disenfranchised entirely with religion in Christian school. How old were you? I don't want to do the math there, but I'm going to guess it's like, I was born in 1969,

the best year to be born in. Yeah, so right, 15. Okay, so I was 15. I had that number tattooed behind my ear because that seems to be like- 84 or 15 no 15 you do that's the that's the year i lost my virginity yeah and i got crabs from the first time yeah because you would think who has crabs at age 15 and of course it's the girl who's my

virginity too because my father scared me into it said if you don't lose your virginity by the time you're 18 i'm going to buy you a prostitute so therefore i have a fear of prostitutes yeah and of girls with pubic hair now yeah so but you didn't have to go to a prostitute no i unfortunately found a cheerleader from louisville yeah louisville canton yeah ohio j adjacent yes louisville is it. Louisville? It's Canton, Ohio adjacent. Yes. Louisville. Is it Louisville or Louisville? Louisville. In Canton, it's Louisville.

Okay. Because I have three different brands of redneck. I grew up in Ohio. Yeah. Then I moved to Florida, which is like the bottom dick end of insect world redneck. I can see where it all comes, how that informed you. The Florida experience. Then I just thrive up the dick of Florida

and somehow ended up in New Orleans, which is a place that's, I wouldn't even say, I can't use the barometer of good and evil. It's a sinister place. It's got its own vibe, that's for sure. It's sinister. I'll tell you that. I don't know about good and evil, but it's a place place. It's got its own vibe, that's for sure. It's sinister. I'll tell you that.

I don't know about good and evil, but it's a place I wouldn't, you know. I often say this as a joke about myself. Yeah. It's a great place to visit. I'm a great place to visit, but you wouldn't want to live here. Yeah, I've heard that about myself as well. But New Orleans, I live there, and it has darkness that has stuck with me. Deep and old darkness.

Something that goes back to Robert Johnson days. It's old school blues days. I felt that there the last time I was there. You definitely feel like, first you feel like, well, this is a unique place. There's no place like New Orleans. And then you feel like something's up here. When it comes to evil shit yeah i think that people can accept my opinion saying that there's something very

unexplainably sinister in new orleans sinister dark mysterious but unexplainable unexplainable but evil i mean evil with that word used in a non-romantic way. I don't think you're evil. Right? You. I like that you said romantic. That's true. Because I consider myself a romantic person.

Yeah. But you know what evil is. Yes. Yeah. I know what good is. I mean, in the natural moral barometer. What the... When you drop bombs

when you kill when you ethics and morals yeah sure sure but i'm just saying that you know like when i think about darkness or i think about mystery or i think about some witchy shit it's not necessarily evil it's just sort of like what's going on right fair enough yeah but i mean but this was no i tend to swerve on the witchy side yeah on the altamont side this is the woodstock side of 69 on the manson side versus the uh the uh the other side i know i i spent some time there. But I consider myself to be someone with a moral compass where if I love somebody, I love something, I have a very limited family now. My parents are both gone.

And it's not something I'm going to complain about. That's part of life. It's a circle of life. It's a snake eating something's tail type of thing. Auroboros. Correct, sir. Yes. And I feel like my father would want me to put good energy into moving forward.

Now, what I do might not be considered good by everyone else, but as far as good and evil, I do believe that you should care about the people you love yeah protect them with everything you can yeah and not try to hurt other people unless it's unless you have to do it for a reason that's to protect what you love your dick unless they're biting your dick but i didn't hurt that person but she didn't get through the dick she didn't get through the dick so like when you started doing this schtick. You were saying schtick.

Yeah. I heard you say it to Alice Cooper, too. You listened to that one? Yeah, I love Alice, man. He's so cool to me because at first I thought he hated me, you know, because of being Christian and sober and things. And me representing a lot of things that weren't that. And also...

In real life. Yeah. Well, what other life is... No, I mean, like... Well, I don't... It would be hard for him to... You don't separate, which is... I don't separate.

Which is probably why he had a problem. Or you thought he had a problem. Well, I thought he had a problem. And, you know, so when I got to meet him, he was such a... We had so much fun on tour together. We did a song together that's going to be on the next Hollywood Vampires record. It's called Alice vs. the Bottle, and I play the bottle. See, that's proactive.

Yeah, it's almost like yogurt. How so? It's proactive. Okay. I'm a culture. Probiotic. I'm a culture. No, butic culture yeah no but active would actually be an acne medicine sure yeah but no but i mean it's nice you guys are playing the yin and the yang of who you are and you know she was in shtick oh shtick so well yeah well i think that alice if we bring if we're talking about alice who obviously had some inspired you somehow at

some point great influence huge influence huge influence, of course. But he differentiates. I mean, there's the guy on stage, and then there's the guy playing golf, really. Well, when I was a kid, it wasn't that way. And it was never that way with Bowie or anyone that I grew up listening to. Even Kiss, which I think, without saying something bad about anything with Kiss, I was really disappointed

one day because my father took me to my first concert, which was Dynasty Tour of Kiss, which a lot of people frown upon. Was it later? Was it a later one? Well, I was made for loving you. Yeah, yeah. It was good. Yeah.

My father was dressed like Gene Simmons, and people were asking for his autograph. Oh, really? So it was exciting so your dad was a character yeah he was a total character you got along you looked up to the guy he looked a lot like me that's what I used to tell him

but he sounds like he knew how to have a good time bust balls get dressed up yeah and when I met Gene Simmons later he was it was not I wouldn't say a letdown. It was just a little different than when I got to meet Bowie or I got to meet Alice Cooper. Those are great events in my life. And I'm not going to say Gene Simmons was a letdown, but I'm just going to say that Bowie.

But you were surprised that he was an obnoxious, loud Jewish man? No, I just meant that he was wearing a denim Looney Tunes shirt. That's all. I'm just saying that he was wearing a denim Looney Tunes shirt. That's all. I'm just saying that was really supporting. That's what did it. And he had black cotton candy for hair. It was just weird. And he didn't have his makeup on?

No, the makeup didn't matter. Yeah. That didn't matter. You know, with me, I'm not wearing lipstick right now. People always ask me, what do you look like without your makeup? I'm looking at you right now. Yeah. It's like, what do you look like without your makeup? I'm looking at you right now. Yeah. It's like, what do you look like without your mustache? Yeah. I hear you.

You know, I got eyeliner on because I slept in it last night. And you don't have eyebrows? No, I shave my eyebrows for fun. No, I know. It just looks more interesting. No, definitely. It has an impact. No, I just mean I just don't like eyebrows. I mean, I have really beautiful eyebrows

when they're growing. No, but for me, like looking at you, I'm like, well, look, he's pretty I just don't like eyebrows. I mean, I have really beautiful eyebrows when they're growing. No, but for me, like looking at you, I'm like, well, look, he's pretty. He doesn't have. I can't. He's got a little eyeliner on, no lipstick, and his eyebrows are gone. I can't be lowbrow or highbrow. It's nobrow. It's nobrow.

You transcend. Beyond good and evil. I'm not Nietzsche. You're not? No. He's just a thinker. That's all. He's a thinker. Some guy that wrote things down. He's just a thinker. That's all. He's a thinker.

Some guy that wrote things down. He's just a little man that wrote things down in a fury at times. But so did you find Gene dismissive? What was it like meeting Bowie? I can't even imagine it. When was that? It was on the last tour that he did. what year when was that it was on the last tour that he did um before he well it was the last tour that i saw him they did before he died i didn't really get to meet him before that

and it was backstage in santa barbara and he was uh somehow laura flynn boyle who's now become a really scary person if you ever look her up because yeah as you could see i love twin peaks yeah but uh laura flynn boyle was somehow trying to squeeze her way into the shot and i was it was the first time meeting bowie it's very weird backstage at these big rock shows in this area but for me i just remember he grabbed my tie and he said hedy slimane and he said what no he had he grabbed my tie he said oh hedy slimane because he knew the design? What? No, he grabbed my tie and said, oh, Hedy Slimane. Because he knew the design of the tie. And I was all excited.

And I felt like I was going to pee in my pants like a little girl. And then Laura Flynn Boyle came in and ruined it. Started yelling about cocaine and fucking toilets. And I don't know what else. What was that? What do you mean? Was she in just a weird fit of some kind? I have no idea.

Just Google her. Was she acting crazy? Google her face.? Google her face. Just Google her face. I'll do it later. No, but when you Google it, it'll answer your questions. It all makes sense. Google it right now.

Have you ever met that woman that's got the tiger surgery, turned tiger face? I feel like I know where you're going. I'm going to need it. It's scary. But I felt like she was on the brink of becoming scary. Yeah. And when I met her, she was really overwhelming and it was fucking

with my Bowie moment. I was like having my Bowie moment and she fucked with it. Okay, I see. And I wanted her to be a boy and I wanted to pop it,

lance it. And that was all you got? Just the tie moment? Yeah, just that moment. And I said, Bowie, I said, I didn't say Bowie, I just said,

hey, can I ask you one question? Yeah. I said, what's she I said, I didn't say Bowie. I just said, hey, can I ask you one question? Yeah. I said. What's she doing here? No, no, that would have been a good question. And I said, so when you, you know, you decided to stop doing drugs and things like that, how did that work for you? How did you work that out?

He said, I just got bored of it. I thought that was interesting because I had just broken out of rehab, promises. I think Sherilyn Finn was, no, not Sherilyn Finn, Laura Flynn Boyle. It's so many Lynn's.

Three-name people are dangerous. It's tricky. Harvey Oswald. John Wayne Gacy. Mark David Chapman. Henry Lucas. Lou Diamond Phillips. Terrifying.

Edward James Almos you want to go four namers J.R.R. Tolkien I don't even know why he's got four what's his I don't know what the R's are

I don't know what the J's for J.J. Abrams who knows we could go on forever with this you want to play this game no I don't think so it's a terrible game

so you have you gotten bored with drugs and booze I found a different balance with it I didn't get bored with it and booze? I found a different balance with it. I didn't get bored with it. I just found out very simply, don't drink and do drugs when you're by yourself

or you're unhappy. Yeah. Because I never knew the difference between a party and a problem. Oh, that sounds like a slogan. Sounds like a song, but it's too obvious, I think. Did you just come up with that? Or did you see that on a car coming over here?

No, I didn't see that on a car coming over here. It's the advice I give to youngsters when I go do youth care. Give it to me again. Give it to me again. I go, youth care. I don't know the difference between a party and a problem. Because when people say, let's party, party i'm like i don't know what that means yeah because i was like it doesn't seem fun it seems like we're all getting shit hammered and

then it's gonna be a bunch of gay dudes naked in my pool and then suddenly uh tmz is here and there's no no it's pre-TMZ this is a specific event that seems like this is this is in 1998

uh huh now there's gonna be naked dudes in my pool and then what's the girl that was in

bong water equation Ann Magnuson Ann Magnuson suddenly taken off her bikini in my bedroom naked

yeah and mad at me because I don't have sex to her and then writes a song about it for bong water look it up google at me because I don't have sex to her and then writes a song about it for Bong Water. Look it up. Google it.

What song? I don't know. Marilyn Manson didn't fuck me I think it's called. No, I honestly think it's called Marilyn Manson did not fuck me. I'm not sure

but she did write a song about me not fucking her. I like Bong Water. I like Dan Magnuson because I interviewed her when I was 19 years old in New York City. For what? When I was a journalist. Oh yeah. For the fucking fun of it. water i like dan magnuson because i interviewed her when i was 19 years old in new york city for what when i was a journalist for the fucking fun of it yeah because i could around i would

just lie because i thought she was hot she was hot and there was but that she was hot when she took her clothes off in my bedroom so what went wrong i was scared because there was naked guys doing weird chicken fights in my pool. So you're concerned about your property. No. Too concerned. Well, I was just, I didn't think that I would come into contact. I'm still, in a sense, the same kid that I was. When I meet people, I'm still in awe of them.

I don't get jaded. I don't think I'm better than someone else. I like that second Bongwater record. I don't remember listening to the record, second one, because I don't have a record player or a CD player. It's way back in the day. So you're the same kid. You got shy, you got scared. No, I'm still shy.

No, I still am. And you didn't fuck her and she stood there naked. She didn't stand there naked so much. I'm just saying that she was I think that she was putting provocative moves towards me, let's say, and she wrote a song about it, which I didn't listen to yet, but she told me later when she saw me,

and I think that she was kind of mad at me, but it was not because of anything other than fear of being in front of someone that you met when you were 19 and being scared that, well, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with this. How did I manage to work my way into this situation where I can get... Have sex with Anne Magnuson, who I thought was hot when I was 19. I was just a nerdy journalist kid.

And why are those guys outside? Naked playing chicken fights. I have pictures of the naked chicken fights, too. On your phone or just at home? No, no, this is old school. Cameras, the clicking kind. They go, and you got. So walk me through the life then.

So you grew up in Ohio and Florida. What was the thing that ruined you? Was it Florida? Well, you were heading towards journalism and then something went horribly different no i i was in ohio i just uh great stomach that sounds great that's great i've been eating because you starved me to death i did not starve anybody i know i'm just kidding i have some potatoes people starving in my stomach don't you know what about the fitting they didn't give you a nice layout or shit?

No, they made me shit to do the fitting. The shitting. It's called the shitting. Okay. So in Ohio, I was just getting ready to, you know, I was really upset. I've only gotten one real fight in my life. I've gotten my ass kicked a couple times. Yeah.

You know what I mean? It's not a fight when you just get your ass kicked. Right. I got my ass kicked by Nazi skinheads and straight-edged skinheads. Because the Nazi skinheads thought that I was Jewish, and the straight-edged skinheads thought that I was on drugs. Yeah. And I neither, neither, neither.

True, right. At the time. Right. Now you are Jewish and on drugs later I became Jewish on drugs at a bar mitzvah just recently

no but they beat the shami yeah however the only fight I ever got in was in creative writing class uh huh in heritage Christian school yeah

in Canton Ohio yeah in eighth grade yeah and some kid criticized my poem and I brained him right in the nose.

Yeah. And gave him a bloody nose. He didn't get back up. But I stood up for my poetry. There you go. That sounds a bit. You've done it before? Sounds a bit.

Yeah. A little bit light in the loafers, so to speak. No, you're an artist. But I put my hand into it, broke his nose. So you can, you know, what I'm saying is don't meddle with poets. Yeah. People that are florists. Yeah.

Or, you know, guys that wear shorts or they're cut off so small that you can see the pockets hanging out. Yeah. Because you will get punched. That's right. You come with that. If you have the bravery to do those things. To do any of those things. Then you pack a wallop.

So that was the first time. That was in Florida. Then I got, I mean, in Ohio. In Ohio. Then I got kicked out of Christian school. For what? I'll make it brief. I put a dildo in the Bible teacher's desk that I found in my father's father's basement.

father's basement. My grandfather was apparently a cross-dressing dodo handler. I mean, I wrote about it in my book.

you come from it. It's great. There's an explanation for my behavior. But I just thought this bitch, Mrs. Price, to name her by name,

Mrs. Price, if you're listening, you're a bitch. So she was really bitchy because she would say this. It was almost like telling a racist joke. She would say, now, is anyone Catholic or Jewish in the room during Bible class, which was every day? Right. Where I had to memorize Galatians, Ecclesiastes.

I know them all. Don't worry. Revelations. That's why you asked. I know it. She started to stay by saying that. And then if no one said no, then she would start shit-talking all the other religions. So I just found that I didn't want to be at Christian school anymore.

Did not realize that when I got kicked out of Christian school by putting a dodo that I found at my grandfather's house, covered in greasy, unknown circumstances that I don't even want to think about. But now I can think about it, and it's kind of good that I wore gloves. You wore gloves to carry it. Not to keep fingerprints off. Your grandpa's dildo, because it was slimy. It was somewhere inappropriate.

Sure. I put it in her desk i got kicked out and i went to christian school i mean i left christian school and i went to public school yeah same bus stop yeah ass whooping oh yeah so cyber bullying can take suck a dick because i got my ass kicked the old-fashioned way at the bus stop yeah for being if you don't want to get cyber bullied just close your computer off i got my ass beat old-fashioned style at the bus stop. Yeah. For being a... If you don't want to get cyber bullied, just close your computer off. I got my ass beat old fashioned style at the bus stop. By a big band.

By Christians. No, by people that were like, he's, oh, he thinks he's cool, better than us. But my parents were not religious. So then I went to public school. Yeah. Come ass beat a lot.

I learned to play it. I was in the band. Playing what? what well this is where it goes south on me yeah the triangle no no i i took i took drum lessons yeah i found my my w haskell heart pedal yeah so drums i'm by nature rhythm is something that's a big part of me. But you play drums. Music's got good swing, got good pop to it. It's not like crazy metal drumming.

It's rock. It's good. It doesn't confuse strippers. It doesn't confuse strippers. I told Dave Lombardo. I told Josh Homme. Don't make beats that confuse strippers. It doesn't confuse strippers. I told Dave Lombardo. I told Josh Homme. Don't make beats that confuse strippers. It's not fair. It's not nice and I don't like it.

I was going to keep tapping that foot, working that pole. Tapping that foot, working that pole. So I went to no, but that's really what I got stuck with. I knew how to play snare drum but I didn't want to be in marching band. So I got stuck playing the triangle.

Now, if you want to pick an instrument to get your ass beat with, it's a triangle. So you're telling me you got your ass beat again? Yeah, double ass beat. By the band guys or just by other guys? The band girl guys frowned upon me. For the triangle playing? Yes. That's where I became involved with some weird burnouts.

Yeah. I started selling my mother's diet pills, as they call them. Good kind? As speed. Yeah. To the burnouts.

So you're trying to get in. Yeah. I was wearing a denim jacket. Yeah. Going to Jewish priest concerts. Yeah. Iron Maiden concerts. You were going?

I went. Yeah. Screaming for vengeance. Peace of mind. Yeah. I was in the beginning. Yeah. Screaming for vengeance, peace of mind. I was in the beginning. Yeah. Old school. And that was your shit?

That was my shit. Oh, good. And then, so I had to sell Speed to become cool, but it was my mother's diet pills. It wasn't even real Speed. It was my mom's piss pills,

whatever. Whatever. But they bought it anyways. So I became cool guy enough to get, survive through high school. Yeah. And as soon as i became cool we had to move to florida we moved to florida tough break and then i i started reading stephen

king yeah the it yeah i'm calling it the it because it's the shit yeah i love the book yeah i wanted to be a fiction writer oh got it so then somehow i decided i'm gonna go to community college in florida in florida broward community college bcc yeah there you go yeah represent still not have done drugs still not being a drunkard yeah still not having a band nothing nothing just like i don't know what i don't want to do yet so i went to i took two classes that was excelled in yeah that was excited about yeah journalism and theater because i had a great fear of speaking in public yeah and so and i'm not afraid says i started open mic poetry night did you yeah i'm gonna say it again open mic poetry night and but uh did you in florida

you have three names i just realized everyone has three names but you don't use them all you don't use any of them right do people call you brian some people do i don't really care what people call me it's really a word i mean usually i haven't called you i have not called you by your name but we do have the same initials. Oh, right. Marilyn Manson. Well, yeah, technically. So the Poetry Night, that was being run by Brian Warner. I started that as Brian Warner, and someone said, oh, you should start a band.

Yeah. And I was just doing what became the songs on my first record. So you were doing sort of slam style, loud poetry. You weren't reading passively. I made Poetry Night Up and it seems sort of an odd thing to say. It seems kind of

a bit sissy thing to say. But actually, it was cool at the time because no one else did it. There was no one else doing it. It was just me. I would just go on stage and I would read poems.

No one else did. Oh, you didn't host it or anything no no no it was just me where'd you do it at at a place called squeeze nightclub which has since burned to the ground oh yeah so then it said suddenly then were you in a costume then no just you no i had started to dye my hair black at that point because my mother thought her my mother's favorites were Alice Cooper and Elvis Presley

not in that order Alice first oh she liked Alice yes she's got some good songs yeah 18 18

and you know what Ballad of Dwight Frye how about how about I'll Never Cry dude I'll Never Cry come on I heard you talk about that

and Only Women Bleed which is an inexplicable song because I remember seeing that on Solid Gold. Yeah. And it just, it segues suddenly into the chorus. And with no explanations. Only women bleed. No, no, but it just goes out from, he stays out all night. Yeah.

Doesn't come on, hit you sometimes once in a while. Yeah. Only women bleed. And that's it. It just goes right into it. It's no segue, no tampon commercial, but it would have been

a great tampon commercial. It really would have been. I know, that's... I said that to Alice before. And what did he say? He said it was once. He did? Yeah, I guess it was once.

Well, he said it was. All right, so, so okay so now you're dying your hair black your mom likes elvis presley and alice cooper you're doing these poems and someone says you should be in a band and you're like i only play triangle i didn't say that but yes no i i think the first two things i stole from the Canton library before I moved to Florida were the Doors' Greatest Hits cassette and Aerosmith's Greatest Hits cassette. Five to one, baby. One in five.

One in five. Yeah. So that's what I kind of learned to sing, too. That makes sense, man. That live Doors record is a fucking great record. Yeah. Did you say the first Aerosmith record? Well, no, the Grace Hits one.

And I know... But at that time, it was only those first four or five records, right? It was the first Grace Hits. It was the red one with the white cover, which had... It had Come Together, which was in the Sgt. Pepper movie. Yeah. Which... Did it have Mama Ken? No. But, you know, when... had come together, which was in the Sgt. Pepper movie. Yeah. Which I... Did you have Mama Ken?

No. But you know when... So I get to meet Joe Perry because I know where he fucking lives. Yeah. Referring to my single. Yeah. Because I played him that song about seven months ago. Yeah.

I was like, man, Joe Perry's the sweetest guy. And I think it was... Seven months ago, was that when the Super Bowl was? I don't know. I don't either. Because I think it was, what, seven months ago, was that when the Super Bowl was? I don't know. I don't either, because I don't follow sports that much. Yeah. But Joe was really in a weird place, and I just played him that song, and he lives in a place where I know where he fucking lives.

I played him my song. He's lived by you? Sort of. Yeah. We know where you fucking live. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I played him the song, and he was excited, and I go, hey, Joe. Hey, Joe. You're going with that gun in your hand. I know where you fucking live. Oh, yeah, yeah. And I played him the song, and he was excited, and I go, hey, Joe. Hey, Joe.

You're going with that gun in your hand. I know where you fucking live. Yeah. I said, Joe, you just became the coolest motherfucker in Aerosmith. You know why? Because of the Super Bowl commercial with Skittles last night.

And he had like a childish grin on his face. He was so happy. Oh. He's the most amazing. I got to jam with Joe Perry and Johnny Depp and Josh Homme

we were writing a song together and Joe Perry was following me it was the most weirdest thing because I don't the word jam

yeah doesn't even fall into my vocabulary normally but I was why I don't know because I just never

you don't jam well not really. The dynamic between me and Tyler Bates on my new record and the last record, he'll sit like this distance, the same distance as us. I have his guitar plugged in. I have this on, headphones, just like this. If you plugged your guitar in, it would be the same thing.

Right. So on the new record and on the last record, you'll hear the guitar bleed. Oh, into your, yeah, from your earphones. Not only from your not only women bleed but my earphones my microphone bleeds yeah and weeps my guitar gently well the new record i listened to most of it it's a it sounds like there's some pretty tight songs on there some satan stuff there's some murder stuff you know there's some satan stuff some murder stuff. Thanks for diminishing it. Come on. Come on.

I like the Satan song. Satan. No, I know. You say God. Satan. Yeah. I like it. I like it too.

I'm not diminishing it. I know. It's what you do. Nobody said there's some Satan stuff, some murder stuff. But the mix is a little different. I get it. I get it. It seems a little more grown up.

That's weird that you say that because everyone said that about Pale Emperor. It sounded more Doors-y, Rolling Stones. It was more rock and roll, the last record. Yeah. His record was the follow-up to that where Tyler Bates and I said to each other, we sat next to each other and we said why don't we

let's do something let's just start a song that reminds us of this shit that we listened to when we were growing up like

a combination between like Killing Joke yeah no he actually said to me do you like Killing Joke and I said are you fucking kidding me I saw them live

open for ministry yes of course I do yeah Killing Joke Joy Division Iggy, Stones. You know, so we did Bauhaus, of course Bowie, Alice Cooper. So we just...

You summoned... I just said that. Yeah. And I didn't have to... Because he scores films for a living, I'd written all the lyrics for this record out. Is that a first? Well, strangely, in one notebook, yes.

Normally, I would have like 10 notebooks all scattered and chaotic. And I'd be trying to wrangle things in, which is a more difficult way of doing things. It's almost like watching the movie Sympathy for the Devil. They're trying to write one song, and it's very difficult. But this came very difficult. Yeah. But this came very naturally. That's good. We would just sit next to each other and we would just put up a beat,

a tempo, and she was like... Just the two of you? Yeah, just the two of us. And then we would later go back and then we would make it live and we would record it. But for the most part,

just the two of us and then Gil, Sharon, who also played drums in dillinger escape project or plan or whatever the band is but not it's not very marilyn manson style but the main point was that we want to do something that was completely opposite of what the last record was at the same time it wasn't trying to harken back to what I used to do right

it was just going back to what inspired me in the first place that's nice which was going to clubs in Miami and doing what they called slam dancing

at the time sure yeah to ministry and killing joke yeah and I think even I might even like

slam dance to the Pixies even though it wasn't appropriate at the time yeah maybe it was either a slam dance or stand still yeah but back then it was slam dancing no not moshing no yeah it was just sort of like this is like yeah it's when you would get hurt yeah chances are you just like dudes would just run in yeah that's how i broke my jaw actually so is that true no no yeah no it's true that's how I broke my jaw, actually. Is that true? No. No? Yeah, no, it's true. Broke your jaw swam dancing? Ugh.

Somewhere along the line. Now, how'd the last record sell? I couldn't say for sure. Do I write, though? I know that it did all right enough for them to give me a better deal this time. Oh, that's good. And when you go out, how big are the places you're doing? Pretty big?

We just did a bunch of festivals in Europe that we headlined, and we're doing shows in the USA that are what I want to feel comfortable in. We could try to do different size venues, but I really prefer a certain size stage so when we even when we did festivals i made them make our stage the size of a club right and they didn't understand it at first yeah crew and the other the bands and other stuff because their stages were bigger so you make the stage like a rock club i made the it the same as a rock club because I want to be able to touch

the people next to me and my drummer is right up front which no one usually does so he's right in the front where the guitar player would be.

That's good. And it's you know so but at the same time we're doing a lot of big shows we're going to do the I mean we're doing

some show in San Bernardino with uh i think with rob zombie sometime soon i'm not really sure when but we're doing we're doing the la forum on our own later that's great so but you know you created this whole aesthetic that seemed to be supported by a lot of other creative people in the videos and the photos and your own sensibility and your own imaging and everything else. You really took whatever it is that you were doing to this level where it had a profound impact on the entire culture.

And you really seem to piss off the Christians pretty well. And how, when you, which is fine with me. I guess they had it coming. Yeah. Well, they're built to take it. They kind of asked for it. But I guess I have a couple questions in that. I think the first question is,

when it comes to ritual and when it comes to beliefs and all that stuff, can you explain Aleister Crowley to me? Because I've read his fucking books, and what do I got to do explain Aleister Crowley to me? Because I've read his fucking books, and what do I got to do to make that make sense to me? It's just another person's opinion. But it's all written in poetry, and it's very difficult to get through.

Well, I wouldn't take anyone's written word, even my own, as lyrics, as something that's supposed to be. You read it, and it equals something you make it what you want yeah just with anything i learned that from the bible i think a belief yeah in something is the key whatever it is whatever it is yeah good or bad but you know you always have to remember that you can put out good energy about bad but i i think that someone writes a book yeah it doesn't make them any different from either of us oh no i get that like but i just i don't think that i'm saying

yes alistair crowley had a big impact he was involved with a lot of people you know and and obviously i've read his shit so i know it all of it not all of it yeah see my stomach just went no that's Alistair Alistair he's gonna come no no

but it's it's not that it's not any disrespect to what he's written it's just that you understand that some people

a philosophy just in general philosophy it's just one person's opinion sure Nietzsche Camus

Descartes yeah Descartes yeah I used to like to make fun of his name whatever yeah whatever person you want to pick yeah it's all just an opinion Freud young you know when you go to philosophy I'm more of a young in person than a Freudian because I like alchemy because it's where it started yeah it's basic it's turning lead into gold you take shit you make into something great yeah the basic concept of it forget all the mystical part of it you just take something from nothing yeah you're making something great now in terms of um

when they hung all that shit on you and you had to fight for your life and your art you mean columbine yeah yeah that was that was, go ahead. Yeah, when in, in terms of, you know, taking on that machine, which you did, you know, courageously at the time. I'll footnote that and say not exactly, but continue. Not exactly? No, no, I'll tell you. Not exactly? No, no, I'll tell you. Do you feel that you were able to recover from that? When it happened, my entire career was shut down. I had this really dope show, Giant Success, which is strange.

And ironically, the guy that edited that video, Bill Yukich, we jointly watched with the guy who did my album cover, Peru, this photographer. We watched Combine happen in Chicago. We were watching it live on TV. And they were saying- The coverage. Yeah, we were just watching it live on TV. May or may not have been high on cocaine. I won't convict them of any of my crimes.

But we were watching it, and I said, man, this is going to fuck me over, because I know that they're going to blame it on me. And they said, seven kids dressed in Marilyn Manson costumes. And it just kept changing. The story kept changing as it went along. So I sucked it up. But it was strange when the Las Vegas casinos

were cancelled my show so every show was cancelled and the record label did not back me up so everything got ripped out from under me

so I sat in my house and I wrote a story called Hollywood and I had a movie deal that was going to make what would be

essentially I guess my version of the wall they wanted me to make yeah and it happened to inconveniently be about guns and kids. Yeah. So that got just pulled out from under me. And so I turned that into a record, into a book.

And someone asked me the other day about if I was going to make that book come true. And I got re-inspired because the book actually sounds more relevant now than when I wrote it. Yeah. So you could still put out the book? No, no. I'm going to.

But it actually sounds, it would have sounded more dated when I wrote it than it would now because it sounds like what, you know, don't call me, you know, Nostradamus. Yeah. Right. It sounds more like now than it did when I wrote it. Oh, okay. 15 years ago.

Right. So that happens. So the way I come out is shave my head, hold a gun, and just say fuck you and have a song called Love Song, Death Song, Fight Song, and just came out with guns blazing. And if they're going to blame me for violence, this is the one thing that always amused me. People always say that my music causes violence. Why aren't they worried what I'm going to do?

Really, seriously. You personally? Yeah, me personally. It's like you're blaming me personally for shit that I didn't do. Why are you worried about what I'm going to do? Yeah. Does it seem kind of odd? Like if your neighbor said that there's human feces on the lawn.

Yeah. And he blames it on your cat. Yeah. Why is he blaming it on you? Right. Well, I mean. But he's blaming your cat. And he's blaming you as the owner of the cat.

But he's not blaming you for pooping on his lawn. Right. But would you have rathered that I mean what if they well I mean that's they might as well have well that's what I'm saying

is that they couldn't put you in prison for expressing yourself so they destroyed you for expressing yourself collectively sort of

but in a sense I didn't I mean and I'm not saying I'm not saying that what I've said in lyrics especially on this new record,

is not going to cause problems if people interpret anything that you say to cause problems. Because that's people. It's like I could blame the church for causing me to write it. I could blame you for asking me the question. You can blame anyone. No one has any responsibility anymore. That's the whole point.

From the beginning, the name Marilyn Manson was created to prove the point that they're proving against me so it just proves it more but I can't get through them because I'm not trying to change the world because it's pointless you can't change the world when you can't even change your underwear that's what I go by now as my mom. Because I haven't in several days. No, but that's another line. See, I always told you I defer to sarcasm. Yeah. It's hard to try to get. You can't get through a message to people except in art.

That's really all you can say. You're doing this interview with me. We're having our opinions. And I listen to your shit. I listen to it begrudgingly yeah but i listened to it yeah first i watched your netflix the new one the new one the other day that was pretty funny i almost liked it a lot oh good i almost liked it a lot no i didn't like it i watched it no i did you know yeah but i knew you were yeah no one told me exactly oh i didn't know it was

that guy well you just said it was that guy. I know that guy. He's great. He's fucking funny. But people associate you with characters, but I don't differentiate myself from a character that is Marilyn Manson. Now, acting is great because it's the only time I get to have Halloween. You've done some acting, yeah.

It's the only time I get to have Halloween. Where you get to, what, dress up or be someone else? Well, no, I can't do anything on Halloween. Yeah, but acting, I get to be someone else. But what do you mean you don't differentiate? Because you just see it as a fluid extension of you, however, whatever you're manifesting at that time. Because, I mean, you seem like a...

Because there's some people, I've talked to Iggy Pop, I've talked to Alice Cooper. They're definitely not who they are on stage when they're talking to me no one's who they are on stage when they talk to you because we're not on stage that's right because you know why because you don't have teenage tits right i get it no i mean in a way because when you're on stage you're performing sure you're seducing you're you're you're taking the music that you spend a lot of time writing yeah which is totally different than performing yeah a lot of people in my life that i've you know i had relationships with don't understand the difference between writing a song and performing a song performing a song is it's it's a lot different you know from

doing comedy sure it's different than writing sure right yeah so what do you mean a lot different, you know, from doing comedy. It's different than writing. Sure. Yeah, so what do you mean a lot of people in your life who you had relationships with didn't understand that? I just mean it's not the same as when you're performing, you're seducing someone. You're trying to get people to be a part of what you're making. It's almost sort of a... It's a giant seduction. It is.

It is ritualistic in some strange way but it's not the same but making this last record i would invite people into the studio protect mostly girls because when you invite girls in the studio then you have to sing better or you look bad so it's kind of like when you're performing you have to invite girls to make you look bad. So it's kind of like when you're performing, you have to invite girls to make you look better. Yeah, did you feel like you got into it for the girls? There's a mathematics,

there's an algebra to rock and roll. Yeah. Guys go to concerts when I grew up in Ohio to meet girls. Girls go to concerts to fuck the band

and they can't so they fuck the guys that go to the concerts. It's math. Now I'm in a conundrum because I'm in the band. So it becomes complicated. But the main reason rock and roll exists is because it brings people together, but the sexual thing... Unleashes something.

It always has been. Girls go there because they're caught up and they want to fuck the band, either in their mind or however they want to. Guys want to be the guy in the band. And sometimes it's the reverse. Sometimes it's both. Sometimes it's both,

especially when you're someone like me who presents an image that is not too masculine for women and not too feminine for men. But I mean, when you first summoned the character and you were doing these large stage shows with all your makeup and your hair and the songs that you wrote, what was, I mean, you thought of yourself as like,

I'm just rock and roll? What was, I mean, you thought of yourself as like, I'm just rock and roll? I was the first person to ever write an article about Marilyn Manson. As Brian Warner had said, Marilyn Manson's music was amazing. The best music ever made. It's the greatest band since Black Sabbath. By Brian Warner. I had no fucking music.

People were like, oh shit, what's his band? So I had no fucking music. People were like, oh shit, what's this band? So I had to make music to fill in the blank. It was very Dolly. Yeah. My hero. Yeah. And I had to make up, I started a science project,

and I, oh shit, what am I going to do now? So as a kid, I just still feel trapped in the same pattern of being 23, essentially, when my career took off. I don't ever think that I'm, I don't ever take things for granted. I don't feel jaded. I'll come here, and I'll sit in your sweaty little garage. I love you. I love you. I love you too. Because you're awesome.

But I mean, do you ever feel like you're caught in the same age when you started? Yeah, when you don't have children, you don't really know. You don't have something checking you. Do you have children? I have cats. Yeah, I have cats too. Two cats. I have three. But we don't have kids aging before you.

You don't have kids. I don't. I don't either. So yeah, I still don't have a clear handle on how old I am all the time. Certainly not emotionally, but physically you start looking in the mirror and you're like, okay, it's happening. You look like a hard 34. That's very sweet of you. No, honestly.

Yeah, you look like 38. Thank you. Yeah. We're doing all right. I already told you my age, but it's 38. Thank you. Yeah. We're doing all right. I already told you my age, but it's okay. I didn't. You didn't tell me. I was born in 1969, unless you're bad at math.

I was born in 63. See, I'm older than you. No, you're not. I'm older than you, so you're bad at math. Okay, that is true. I hate math. Yeah. And meth.

I never did. You don't like meth? Not really meth. what are you on right now i'm on your chair and okay yeah i try to stay in the balance between doing healthy activity like for instance also being able to drink the minimal amount of alcohol to be able to do that healthy activity. It's a good balance. I have a good teacher that teaches me how to be strong.

She teaches me how to drink within my limits of capacity. Oh, really? Who's that? Is it a coach? It's a coach? No, no, no. Romantic? Some really, don't tell her I said this, but some really slutty woman that does Pilates for me

that learns how to teach me how to drink within my limits and do Pilates at the same time. I didn't say that. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I didn't mean to say that. Sorry, coach. No more blow? Were you trying to do blow right now?

No, I'm not. What is blow? That is so antiquated term. What do you call it? It's such an antiquated term. I don't know. Devil's dandruff. I'm a sober guy.

I don't want to do blow. You're a sober guy. Okay. I don't know. You can call it blow. You know what I have? I have Giant Depp's wig from Blow. I traded him my tits for mechanical animals.

You did? So that's Blow. Is that true? That is 100% true. So like occasionally do a little Blow? Well, if you're trying to interrogate me, are you a cop? Are you wearing a wire? Wait, are we...

Is anyone recording this? No, there's no one wire? Wait, is anyone recording this? No, there's no one recording this. When is anyone recording this? When do you wear the wire? You don't have to tell me. I was just curious to see where you're at. Of course I do drugs. Yeah.

Yeah, but I think that doing drugs is supposed to be when you're in a good mood. No, it's okay. It's not exhausting. You do drugs when you're in a bad mood. It's bad. Yeah. You do drugs when you're in a good mood. Yeah.

It's's bad. Yeah. You do drugs when you're in a good mood, it's still bad. But what I said about cocaine in the past is it just makes me less rich. Yeah. Not poor, but less rich. Yeah. So it's like this nose makes money and spends money. I get it. In the past, that's what I used to say. Yeah.

But no, I do occasional drugs all the time. You still talk to- I'll occasionally it. In the past. That's what I used to say. Yeah. But no, I do occasional drugs all the time. You still talk to... I'll occasionally do drugs all the time. You still talk to Reznor or no? I talked to him recently

and I really liked all the things he did on Twin Peaks. It's amazing. He also scored that Vietnam documentary that Ken Burns just made called The Vietnam War. I didn't see that. I'm not on bad terms with trent at all in fact um

i really have a new appreciation and great fondness for the fact that you know we had a falling out and a lot of it was really anger and drug related and just confusion and record labels mostly record labels fucking with us how long ago is that it's a while ago right well when our big falling out came about was mostly it really had to do with record labels yeah and when i watched the deviant ones the thing with to me i mean defiant ones defiant ones yeah i thought it was the deviant ones i would have called the deviant ones myself i know what it's called i was just fucking with you. That's good.

Because my nickname that week was Building Face. They had you in there. It was called Building Face. Yeah. Because my face was on a building. It's Building Face. Got it. But I talked to him because he's the one who sent me the link to it.

And he said- Trent did. Yeah, Trent did. Yeah. And he said that he really liked the part that included us because I won't deny in any way whatsoever that he discovered and found what he wanted. And we had a tussle.

Well, he's the one who found me, assigned me. Yeah. And I think he understood me a lot better than Jimmy, but I think I may have underestimated how much he understood me a lot better than Jimmy, but I think I may have underestimated how much Jimmy understood me because we never really had a conversation because there was a wall that was separated by a tread. So it wasn't necessarily, I was mad at both people,

but mostly it was just a misunderstanding, I think. About what the, did they drop you or what happened? I don't know. No, well. I don't know the story, I'm sorry sorry you know it was a fight between nothing records which had marilyn manson which is trent's label yeah but trent was not on nothing right it was his label and it just became down to a point where i just wanted to do what i do yeah and i think that's what trent wanted to provide me with and he always did from the beginning but once you turn in something it doesn't always mean it's what it goes out to the

world except now yeah so now with my record label Loma Vista which is Tom Wally who was the person responsible who used to work at Interscope and then Warner Brothers the new record the new record Heaven Upside Down let's plug it it. Boom, boom, boom. Yeah. He's the guy who put the billboard in Times Square of me with tits on Mechanical Animals. Yeah. Well, not tits exactly, but you know what I mean. Yeah.

He was the one who stuck behind that then. And then years later, he came to me about this record. Yeah. And he basically gave us this record deal for this album, Heaven Upside Down, without having heard anything but one song, Satan. It's a good song. And we know where you fucking live.

I was just amazed that a record label would put out a song as a single, we know where you fucking live, and give me money for a video. But he put out Pale Emperor too, right? He was a part of it, but it was cooking final, and he wanted to be a bigger part of it. Oh, I get it. And I said,

can you give us the same money as they gave us? And he said, yes. I said, good, can you give us double? And he said, okay. Great. Done. And he hadn't heard any music. So I'm a pimp

well good man well I'm happy that you're still working you seem okay yeah Twin Peaks you liked it I did like Twin Peaks I'm not sure

about the ending though I didn't watch it the new one I didn't watch the new one spoiler alert no I it got really good a lot of people

were wary about it including myself and I saw a lot of people I get to work with Lynch once if you want to hear the Lynch story so when I did lost highway yeah oh that's right you straight good yeah which is strangely and I won't I'm not making that's one with Bob Robert Blake yes it's a weird face yes yeah and I'm naked in it yeah yeah and Robert Loja and Michael Mass oh yeah

I was just projected on the wall and there's Dave Lynch he's like now Marilyn listen you're gonna you're gonna be

covered in blood you're gonna die you're gonna fall down why doesn't matter now listen listen Patricia

is very sensitive about her breasts so don't talk to sensitive about her breasts so don't talk to her about her breasts okay like yeah so why am I dying

doesn't matter so first thing I'm on set and I have like this weird gauze thing over my cock yeah and balls

so but I'm ass naked in front of the camera yeah and I just look at Patricia Arquette and I say hey I liked you on Dream Warriors 4 docking video. Yeah.

She goes, how do you know that? He goes, in action. She was really pissed off. It was fucking hilarious. It was one of the funniest things ever. Was she in that video? Yeah, she was in the docking Dream Warriors video. Look it up.

But that was my David Lynch experience when I first met him. And he's always been, he's a wildcat. He wanted me to be in my home and drive singing. I want you to sing Heidi, Heidi, ho, Marilyn.

I totally want to sing that. Cab Calloway. Yeah. Heidi, Heidi. I need it to be done today. I'm on tour. I'm in Peru or Europe or somewhere other. I need it today.

Can you do it over the phone? Can you podcast yourself in a Skype over the phone? He just needed your voice. He really talks very loud. And you did Eastbound and Down? Yeah, that was just kind of a fun friend thing. Your buddies with Danny McBride? Yeah.

He's so fucking funny, man. He is very much Kenny Powers. So when's the whole record come out? October 6th. This video comes out October 15th, or it came out October 6th. This video comes out October 15th, or it came out October 15th. Nuns and guns. Guns.

I think the biggest controversy in this is that nuns are wearing latex. And I know that Catholics are not allowed to use condoms, so I think the big controversy should be stuck there. Okay. It's about prophylactics. It's not about guns shooting mortar launchers into minivans.

Yeah. It's about nuns using their vaginas to rape an innocent Christian family who's not Catholic. Or about me being in charge of it

while shooting other firearms. It's more about the Catholics being upset about prophylactics. And I think that we should cut to

a commercial from Trojan. Come up next, the Trojan condom from MM and MM. You could have put that in there. MM and MM. Double, triple quadruple M. Coming to your live. The time

when you want to just not pull out the new condom, the new Trojan horse from quadruple M. M. When you just want to sneak into her. M. And tell her afterwards that you're not wearing a condom.

It's just simply a rubber ring around the bottom of your penis. New quadruple M from Marc Maron. No, from. And Marilyn Manson. Marilyn Mansruple M from Mark Maron. No, from... And Marilyn Manson. And Marilyn Manson. You're welcome. Okay. Peace out.

Thanks for talking. Okay, so there. I don't know if you felt the arc of it. Have you felt the tone of the conversation kind of become a little loopier towards the end. But it was nice to meet him. It was nice to have him over. And I hope he's feeling better.

I hope he's bouncing back. Yeah, so again, go get the book if you want. Come to see us in San Francisco tomorrow night. Me and Brendan are doing our thing for the book event at the alamo draft house for lit quake uh and i i will play some guitar for you so Boomer lives! We'll see you next time. Tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age.

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