WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 855 - Tracey Ullman

Episode Date: October 15, 2017

On a list of the world's funniest people, Tracey Ullman ranks pretty high. But Tracey tells Marc she doesn't consider herself a comedian or a comic, but rather a character actor. The fact that she started performing as a way to cheer up her widowed mother means she's always trying to find sympathetic notes in the characters she's creating, with an ability to mock and humanize simultaneously. Tracey and Marc talk about her TV shows, her family, The Simpsons, and her brief pop music career that led to a friendship with Paul McCartney. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing with cannabis legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category.

legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! store and ACAS Creative. the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck nicks what the fuckocrats what's happening my name is mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it happy monday morning good morning to you i don't know when you listen to this but man i hope you made it through the weekend i hope

i hope you're hanging in uh today on the show tracy allman is here do you know tracy allman do you remember tracy allman i shouldn't say it like that she's always been doing things she's got her second season of her hbo show which is called tracy allman show that premieres uh this friday october 20th she's done a lot of stuff a lot of characters a lot of things insanely talented uh human being that tracy allman she's going to be here in just a bit oh my god i got to get back into the sam pants it's time for sam pants i'm a little and nervous about sam pants i'm shooting today today is the first day of shooting for the second season of the gorgeous ladies of wrestling glow and uh you know i quit nicotine i got a lot of other things going on and quit

coffee so i'm feeling a little doughy feeling a little thick and now i got to get back into the sand pants i hope the sand pants fit because i don't need any extra discomfort on set uh first script is uh looks good don't know where the season is going but there are some things that are set in motion right out of the gate, and I'm excited. I'm excited to be going back to work to do the TV show because now that means I can just add more work. I can do the TV show. I can do the podcast.

I can do stand-up, and I can have no time for anything else, and I can just slowly, anxiously come unhinged. Great plan, right? We were just up in uh the bay area brendan mcdonald uh my producer and business partner uh and myself were up at lit quake we did the uh the we were in the mission at the alamo draft house which is i think the old mission Mission Theater doing an event, a Waiting for the Punch event. The book, I think, is doing well. It's hard to know with books, but a lot of people came and a lot of people were excited. A lot of people bought books both at the New York event and at the San Francisco event.

We're going to try to fit in some more events. I think we're going to do one in Los Angeles and maybe some up north. I don't know. It's kind of tricky because, as I said, I'm shooting a TV show. I'm doing a podcast. I'm doing stand up. And I've got other things going on in my personal life that I'm not going to disclose at this point in time. Everything's good.

Not a big problem. Other than the world is ending. Shit is on fire. Earths are quaking. And people are coming unhinged some days man i don't know what it is but there's just a ripple through the culture where everyone's just fucking unhinged on the street yesterday was one of those days we're just people i just you walk down the street and you just hear someone yelling it's got that distant crazy person sound just someone you know

there's a certain pitch that occurs uh when the brain it craps out that it's elevated and when you hear it outdoors you're sort of like what's what's going on over there what's happening wherever that guy's yelling so uh that just i just like sometimes it just seems like it's all over the place excuse me i'm drinking some tea so yeah but the events weren't great. I hadn't been up in San Francisco in a while. I went up, Sarah the Painter had a lovely opening at the Tony Meyer Gallery or Fine Arts Place. Her gallery up there.

We did that opening Thursday night. It was lovely. Met some painters, some artsy types, some poets, some thoughtful people. And the paintings were were spectacular then the following night brendan and i do this event he talks to me i talk to him on stage and we take questions and that went great had some nice food in san francisco as i i've been to san francisco a lot i live there briefly i don't know i i never know what is happening i always feel i started to realize this time that perhaps the victorian architecture so many victorian structures

that maybe it just feels fucking haunted to me i never really put it together there's a lot of chaos and riffraff and you feel like you're at the edge of sanity on most streets in uh san francisco not in a bad way there's not it doesn't doesn't feel, there's a pretty bad homeless problem and there are certain areas of the city that are nuts, but the entire city itself just feels like it's on edge. And if you look at the way it's sort of structured, there's no grid, everything's cutting into the other street. And then the rolling hills of just homes, defying God to shake them down. and then the rolling hills of just homes,

defying God to shake them down. And there just seems to be something, there feels like a frenetic edge to San Francisco, even when you get out into the hippie regions, which are now on fire. That was the other thing. Very fucking devastating, very sad. My heart goes out to anybody who's battling those fires or losing homes and friends in those fires.

It's just horrible. And it's ongoing. And you could feel it in the air. You could taste it in the air in San Francisco. You could barely breathe. And it was just disturbing and heartbreaking what's going on up in Northern California with these wildfires. Just completely out of control. And it's really hard. It gets harder day in, day out not to lump all this stuff together. Not to think like, maybe do I need to read Revelations again? Could it possibly, I mean,

am I off about this? Am I being too practical by being an atheist? Is it happening? I know there are people committed to it happening. There's the resurgence in a big way of christofascism which is you know always exciting has a lot of support not all the people not half of the people but enough to make it very uncomfortable uh the christofascists they're

coming up they're coming up and uh our president who is, I think, practically, in most practical terms, Satan. The evangelicals have made a deal with Satan to pursue their agenda and that it's always been teeming. It's always been under the surface. It's always been there. It's been there for years. But now they got their guy

and who would have known it would have been Satan. That makes perfect sense. So maybe I'm going to revisit Revelations because the fires, the earthquakes, the complete applied irony of the end of this governmental system. Every day, every day, hard to transcend.

Sometimes I'm giddy with terror. Giddy with terror. That's the approach. Just remember, at all times, there's a very powerful force and momentum of ideological people that are trying to put in place what needs to be put in place to secure their place in heaven and the kingdom of the hereafter. So just know that the applied prophecy element is intact and that many people are working towards Armageddon and it's something they see needs to happen to fulfill their ideological and spiritual agenda. Yeah, death is better than life to a lot of people. They're looking forward to it and they want to take a lot of us out with them. So, terrified and giddy.

So, I told you about San Francisco. That went well. Having a little problem. You know, there's so many things you got to do to protect yourself, and I'm talking on a technological basis. I think I've out-secured myself. I got very frustrated. I try to keep my shit together. I'm trying to keep a level head in general. I feel a little better without the caffeine, without the nicotine, other than being a little chubby. I think my anxiety is limited.

But I had to get some line of credit approved. I didn't realize I had to do it. I had to sign up for something, and they had to go and check my credit. And because Experian, the credit agency, my identity was stolen a few years back. Some of you remember that ordeal. And because I filed a police report, which doesn't go anywhere, but you have filed it and you tell Experian that you did that. And then they put an alert on your social security number for seven years, which is great. But I had to use my social security number. And they asked me these series of questions from Experian over the phone to authenticate.

And I couldn't answer them. And these were questions designed to protect me and what they did was they protected me from me and I can now I got to go down to the place with a passport because uh I I out secured myself I mean passwords are one thing but these questions were ridiculous I don't fucking remember my my landline number from 20 years ago i barely remember the addresses of where i lived so i screwed myself but that my social security number is safe i can't even get to it tremendous god man it's gonna get crazy it's gonna get crazy now three months three months i gotta look at it like that you gotta look at you know when you're

entering a fucking cycle of insanity it's like well i'm out in three months who the fuck knows it's gonna happen in three months anxious anxious terrified and giddy my guest today tracy allman uh incredibly funny uh amazing uh i i don't know you would call her impressionist because you know she does characters she does impressions but she commits man uh the second season of her hbo show which is called tracy allman show premieres this friday october 20th this is me talking to the amazing tracy you can get anything you need with uber eats well almost almost anything so no you can't get snowballs on uber eats but meatballs and mozzarella balls yes we can deliver that uber eats get almost almost anything order now product availability may vary by region see app for details death is in

our air this year's most anticipated series fx's shogun only on disney plus we live and we die we control nothing beyond that an epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by james clavelle to show your true heart just to risk your life when i die here you'll never leave japan alive fx's shogun a new original series streaming february 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Gallman. So you're not, we established you're not a cat person. Really.

I do like cats. Yeah. My daughter has two cats, but they're just really mean to us. Oh, really? The whole family. They like her, but they're just really mean. What do you expect from them? One's completely mad and feral.

Oh. She just sits underneath the sofa and kisses people with sort of yellow eyes. Yeah. And the other one's called Edith and just loves Mabel and that's it. And just, you know, I go around there. I do the litter box. I, you know i feed her i take her treats and at the end of it i just go so bye edith and she goes and jumps at me and slashes my chest you gotta fight it's not alone in it for me i know but that's you have to be patient i know and wait for it well mabel says that but it's

you know when i go home my dog is just great i know but don't i don't trust that it's just sort of like i get it you like me i don't that much affection from anything i find disconcerting but you know that's me i got problems yeah what do you like to you like to i know like a little struggle it's so obvious you would be a cat person just having met you just really yeah you can spot cat people and all cats voted brexit that's my theory they would you know what i mean they don't want other they want european cats coming over taking their litter taking the they're all voted i don't i will not accept that i my cats my cats are very progressive well look where you are eagle rock cats yeah yeah these are eagle rock

cats they're progressive they're progressive. They're nervous. They're inclusive, but it takes a little while. Like I introduced a black kitten and I got two old cats. You saw them on the bed there. They're very PC about the black kitten. It took time. It took time. Really?

Well, there was a lot of skirmishes. What skirmishes? Cat skirmishes. You don't have the old coyote problem because that's a problem living in LA. I don't let them outside. I'm not going to let them outside anymore. Oh, yeah, I did. I got a cat for my son, Johnny,

and it was like eating on the lawn. You know, that's the problem here. They just... Yeah, one of them. I do it with outdoor cats. Eagles swoop down, take them off. It's a dangerous place.

But it's also the way the world works, Tracy. That's the ways of the wild. I lost a feral cat recently to something. Yeah, to the coyotes, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I've been meditating on your career, and it's quite expansive. Yeah, yeah.

Do you, I mean, do you look back? You're really, I mean, we're almost the same age age and I have not accomplished anywhere near what you've done. When you sit and think about it, do you ever sit and think about like, oh my God, I've been in show business forever. 40 years. I started dancing when I was 16. Isn't it incredible? Yeah, it's really weird. And you've had many shows with your name on them.

They always seem to involve your name. Well, it's the easiest. You've had many shows with your name on them. They always seem to involve your name. No, I do it. Well, it's the easiest way for the TV guide. And if you, you know, me and my husband always like, you know, owned them. So we wanted to sell them. Yeah. So you just put your name on them. Why are you going to try and be mysterious?

And you stayed married for a long time? I know. My lovely husband. Yeah, I lost my husband. He died four years ago. Oh. But yeah, we were married. I'm sorry.

Married 30 years. And it was good? Oh, yeah. He was my husband. He died four years ago. But yeah, we were married 30 years. And it was good. Oh, yeah. He was my fella. He was great. He made me laugh all the bloody time. But I've got his two kids. Yeah.

His? They're not. I've got my daughter. Yeah. Yeah. He looks so like him. Yeah. How old is she?

My son is 26 in a minute. And he's like his dad. He really makes me laugh oh my god yeah and the daughter my daughter's 31 yeah mabel yeah with the cats yeah she doesn't make you laugh oh she's hilarious they're just fabulous are they a job business um no mabel when she was three somebody said uh do i mean that an actress like your mommy? And she said, no, I want to be something useful like a nurse. She's very disparaging about show business. And what does she do?

She wanted to be a politician. She worked at the House as a parliament for five years. So they're both in Britain? No, Johnny lives and works there. He's working on James Corden's show right now. He's helping out on that. James has been in here i've been on the show he's a he's a an excitable fella excitable he's got a lot of energy he's got

big plans for a british boy he's very confident but he's been um he's doing all right i guess he's been very good to my son yeah he is he's come over and he's done it and he's that car karaoke thing that that that's the star of that show. That's a very smart premise, isn't it? It is. It's a spin-off. It's very entertaining. It's so great.

He gets people to be totally natural and admit stuff and talk to him in a way they never would in a couch interview format. In the car, you mean, or on a show? Yeah. No, there's something sweet about people singing. Yeah, and Elton John. It's the best interview I've seen him give in a long time. Yeah, no, there's something sweet about people singing. Yeah, and Elton John, and, you know, the best interview I'd seen him give in a long time. Oh, yeah.

I think he's really learned how to listen to people. Did you know him in England? No, not really. I was in Into the Woods, the movie. I was a little, had a part in that, and we sort of crossed paths in that.

But you didn't know him as a TV presenter? Or what was he? He was an actor, wasn't he? He was an actor, yeah. I remember seeing him in the History Boys at the National and in One Man, Two Governors, which I think really attracted the attention for him to CBS a game ago.

But your daughter's in politics. Yeah, she was. She's really passionate about politics. Always was. I took her to the House of Commons. Yeah, and that was it's really passionate about politics. Always was. I took her to the House of Commons. Yeah, and that was it? Planted the seed? She was like seven, and she looked at the House of Lords and the House of Commons

and said, I want to be in there with the real people. With the real people. She pointed to the House of Commons. Oh, yes. She was always saying very profound things, our Mabel. And the, like, because I watched a bit of you doing Theresa May. Mm-hmm. And I noticed something in watching a newer thing.

Like, all the way through, your ability to mock and humanize simultaneously is the real gift, isn't it? And I'm not nasty, actually. I do like people. I can't. It was a tough time to impersonate Theresa May. But, you know, you made her sympathetic somehow. And that's not a bad thing. Yes, she is.

She's like a, because I know that sort of English woman so well, you know, sort of talks like that, you know. And it's all very, well, let's just get on, shall we? And she's a vicar's daughter from Maidenhead. And I know exactly where she's from. And my sister's the same age as her. And we grew up near her. And you couldn't be more different, you know, me or Theresa May.

And yeah, she's got a bit of a hunchback. She looks like if Nosferatu and Oscar Wilde had a child. She looks like the vicar from the Barchester Chronicles, a trollop novel. And she's just Dickensian looking. I mean, it's, but the man that plays my husband in it is Philip he was just wonderful we had a wonderful day being them yeah knowing how in pain she must be right now we shot it just after the election and that terrible Grenfell fire and you know I thought can I do this this is you know there's so much suffering this woman can go through and then

Tracy Oldman impersonates her in prime time it It's like, leave her alone, you know? But then we did it and it was just fabulous fun. And the nation needed it. The nation needed it. You showed up. See, like as an American who's relatively ignorant or at least disconnected from the nuances of British politics, I don't know what you're all going through over there.

It's rough. I mean, Brexit was, for me, it was just awful. Because at that moment, you realized that you were surrounded and did not know necessarily the disposition or ignorance or contempt of your fellow British people. Yeah, it was just a bad mistake for david cameron to call a referendum he didn't need to do it it was to you know silence his back benches and all those reasons and it was i mean i love being a european you know since you know we've been in europe it's

it's like i don't know i mean i remember it before we went into europe it was pretty crappy we ate spotted dick and things like that and what is spotted dick? Oh, it's a sponge pudding with raisins in it. And it's just a great thing to say. Would you like some spotted dick? I'm so scared we might go back to our old culinary habits in England. That's my concern. I mean, it's been great. Every the Italians and the French there, they bring in all the great food, you know, with

the food level in England went up and, you know, we can all get on that tunnel and go to france for lunch and you think now that's gonna go away uh they're pissed off with us i mean it's it's it's odd it's a weird feeling psychologically especially in london you know the big city and but you know yeah it's i mean it's the same as here you know real life then i i'm American too, and I came home to vote in November, and I got that Brexit gut about 8 o'clock. I thought, this is not going well. I thought something bizarre was going to happen here too. When I saw the Brexit vote, that was when I realized, oh, this guy can win.

Yeah, did you? I did, sort of. I likened it to that scene in Godfather 2 where Michael Corleone sees the guy blow himself up, and he says to Lee Str Strasberg, he says, I saw this guy blow himself up and Strasberg goes, what does that mean to you? He said, it means they could win.

Like there's a moment there globally where you're like, the momentum is there. Yes, yeah. Yeah, so what's happening there now? Is it just stalled? Well, there's just tons of negotiations and, you know, as you know, Theresa May called an election. And yeah, that was a disastrous.

Do you think it's going to not go through? Just I hope not. I mean, I think it'll dissolve into a mess. I don't know. I mean, I think we'll be begging him to come back in five years. Right. They'll just stop talking about it. It goes away.

And then all those flats they've built for all those people that work in the city you know you can see those big hoardings everywhere and it's always young people with burberry bags on bicycles waving it's always like young professionals coming to london buying lots of flats and shopping a lot and drinking organic coffee they ain't gonna come anymore and once our you know financial services stuff starts to collapse in the city everyone's going to really panic so i don't i don't know the rep it's uh it's not going well yeah yeah and you're are you living there full time now pretty much yeah yeah i'm uh but are there still good things because i was just there and i don't know a lot about it but like i always feel when i'm in england or when i'm in london which i'm not there for long ever, that like this place has been here a long time. It's seen a lot of stuff, good and bad.

And it just seems like the people are pretty tough about it. And then it doesn't feel like I didn't feel. But then again, I was just going on, you know, whatever psychic vibe I was getting. It didn't feel. Where do you stay when you come into London? I was trying to remember. I stayed right next to the big park there, to Hyde Park in a fancy hotel that Netflix put me up there.

Well, that's here in the center in the fancy bits. You want to go out to Luton where they have darts tournaments and vote Brexit. You're staying in the nice bits. See, you go over there and you're in the bubble. We're here, we're in a bubble. You go out, you know, my daughter having worked in politics for years yeah you know she was out in the rest of the country she could see it coming you know it's like we do get trapped in these big centers and i only had three days i should have i should have made some plans to go out to

see a dart tournament i love when i see americans they go, how many kilometers is it? It's like, guys, don't say kilometers. But where did you grow up? I grew up just outside in the countryside, really, the Greenbelt area around London. Jim Connors, ponies. Really? I'm not a Cockney or, you know, a real Londoner, actually. But you were born in where? You were born in London.

I've done them, like Slough. Do you know where they set theer, actually. But you were born in where? You were born in London. I don't know. Like Slough. Do you know where they set the office? The original Ricky Gervais office? You know that roundabout you see at the beginning of the show? Yeah. They knocked my father's shop down to put up that piece of 60s crap. So I was like, you know, from like 14 miles outside London. Would it be considered like a suburb?

Yeah. Of London? Yeah. And what kind of shop did your dad have there um he was he did everything he was a he was at dunkirk and he was in the polish army and he came to london and he never went back after the war and he was a lawyer and an interpreter and he set up a big shop in london for all the poles that came and made their lives there and you you wanted furniture you went to john you you wanted a wife

you went to john you wanted you wanted a beetle suit you went to john and he was the polish conduit he was he was english culture yeah he just he's he was fantastic so he was like he was probably one of those guys that was sort of like the mayor yeah in a way like of that community like everybody knew him. Exactly. Yeah, that's what my dad did. And he became a lawyer as well? He was a lawyer from Poland.

So he helped with legal advice? Yeah, everything. Yeah, he'd like... Yeah. And so the office that they leveled was his law office? Yeah. No, we had like an office. It was like, it was a shop. We had everything.

We had the Beatles suits in there. You want Winky? You want Winky Pickles? You go to John. You know, he had like an office. It was like, it was a shop. We had everything. We had the Beatles suits in there. You want Winkle, you want Winkle Pickles, you go to John. You know, he had everything in there. He'd make me dance on the counter for the customers, you know. My Tracy, she's so talented, she's a star. And he sold suits and he used to let a couple of nutty guys that had been in the desert rats.

They had gone a bit crazy with the sun, live in the back room. And it was incredible. What? He had desert rats in the back room? The guys that had been in the army,. It had gone a bit crazy with the son living in the back room and it was incredible. What? He had desert rats in the back room? The guys that had been in the army, the Polish army there.

I remember this man, Mr. Dugosz, who was completely crazy. He felt sorry for me to let him live in the back room. And as kids, we would always be talking

to Mr. Dugosz. He was completely mad. So you grew up with characters. Yeah, mad people. That's sweet. It's sort of sweet, yes. My grandfather owned up with characters. Yeah, mad people. That's sweet. It's sort of sweet, yes. My grandfather owned a hardware store.

There was always people there. It never just seemed to function as a place where people bought appliances. They needed advice. They needed other things. Yeah, that was how I remember, yeah, as a kid with my dad, yeah. And how long was he around? Well, he died when I was six. And my mom.

I know. That's so young. died when I was six. So, and my mom. I know. That's so young. Yeah, I was. What happened? Had a heart attack, heart problems. Then my mom kind of didn't speak Polish or couldn't carry on with the whole business. And so she, you know. Where was she from?

She was a Londoner. Oh. She was a South London girl. So she no longer could be the conduit to the Polish community? No, she couldn't be the conduit. No, she never spoke the language well enough. And then where'd you end up? Fortunes came and went, and my mom did various things and worked in various places.

Odd jobs? Yeah, she'd work in laboratories like the tested food and weird stuff you know and bring food home and we'd be we'd be eating it we'd you know she thought it was all right one night she brought a load of this corned beef home and me and my sister had been eating it you know for like three days and then she went oh girls don't eat that it's unfit for human consumption i've just found out we're like it's a bit late now, Mom. What, she just brought it home thinking, like, well, they don't need it? Yeah, she would do things like that. She was crazy, too.

She was hilarious. And is she still around? No. No, I'm an orphan now. I'm sorry. It happened late, though. Yeah, she lived a lot longer. So when did you start, like, doing the show business?

So when did you start doing the show business? I used to get on my mother's windowsill when my dad died and do the Tracy Ullman show. I used to pull the curtains across. Yeah. The original Tracy Ullman show? That was the original Tracy Ullman show. It started in my mother's bedroom. And she was sad. She was on the bed.

She would sit on the bed and I would just want to cheer her up. And I would impersonate people and put on a show and wear her negligee. How old were you? I'd pretend I was Edith Piaf and sing in pretend French. You know, je commence avec le bachelot. Ça va l'air. And she'd go, oh, isn't it amazing? She's never learned.

She can speak another language. She said a lot a stupid things and nice to act and nice to be pretend i was in a documentary and my husband was in prison and i had two kids and i was being beaten up and i said do dramatic stuff and would you get that information i don't like ken loach films yeah yeah what did you have siblings yeah my older sister patty who it was her show originally so i'm a spin-off from her show she always says like listen it was the patty almond show and i let you have a shot on the show and then you spun off really yeah what for your whole life was a spin-off

of your sister's show what does she do um patty lives here she's lived here for a long long time she's a accountant and a personal assistant. She worked in a bank and stuff. That's interesting that you started entertaining because your mom was sad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know that feeling. My dad was sort of a depressive. And you just want to try to help him out.

Get a little chuckle. It's very rewarding. Yeah. To get your parent to laugh. Really was, yeah. And that was my fun, too, to put to put on a show yeah lots of kids like putting on shows and so i did and you just always the impersonations were just a natural thing or did you well i'd impersonate people in our village like there was a woman that lived opposite us

called any cocks and she'd lost her fiance in the first world war and um she wore wellington boots rubber boots and a woolen hat and her nose dripped a little bit, always a little drip. Had a lot of cats, by the way, Mark. She was a cat person. Swoosh, swoosh, swoosh, swoosh with her cats. Of course, she could let them out in England. There wasn't a bloody great coyote going to eat them there.

Or hawks. No, no, hawks. Hawks. This was Burnham in the 60s and i would impersonate her and of course my family knew who she was it would just make them weep with laughter yeah no wellington boots so it was always people i knew and people i sort of were poignant to me like annie cox was sad you know she lived in a little house with no electricity and you know her fiance had died as i said and she was just like this eternal virgin. But you were never being mean.

No, I just loved her. That's interesting, because I don't know if I thought about it as clearly as I did when I was watching some of your stuff again, that there's a difference between making fun of somebody and honoring them, you know, in a way. Yeah, I do. If I've ever gotten too mean, it's not been me and I've, you know. Pushed back again.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm not doing stand-up. I'm not social. I mean, someone called me a social satirist once. That's wonderful. But I don't, I really am a character actress, you know, and I'm, that can, you know, it makes people laugh some of the things I do.

I'm not a comedian. I'm not a comedian. I'm not a comic. I'm not, that's not what I do. But do you improvise within these characters? Yeah, yeah. I love doing that. Right. So, I mean, that, you know, you do have,

you're not just an actress. You're an improviser. You know, you're a comedic improviser. The first, yeah, my big breakthrough was when I was 21 and I did an improvised play at the Royal Court in London. And it was just brilliant to be able to make up a play in a few weeks. And that's what I love doing.

Yeah? What was that about? It was like about club acts in England. We had to, the four of us were, we had to improvise over 14 weeks to just figure out, you know, club acts that were back in their digs at night talking. And it was, I know it sounds pretty dull, but it was really great. It was a big hit. Who were the club acts?

I was like a singer. I was a born again Christian singer called Beverly and Sparkly Frogs. And I used to get home and pray with everybody. You've done a lot of Christian characters. Have I? Well, you've done a few. I saw one, a fairly recent one. The one with the niece,

the no homo thing. Oh, God. That was like Birdie Godson. That was a while ago. Yeah. And so anyway, it was... Fanatics are fun to do impressions of. Yeah.

I just... Yes, they are, yeah. Do you, sometimes, like, I don't envy them, but, like, the way they're so sure. I know, I wish I was. Right? I know. I mean, I guess that's the big perk of having very narrow-minded beliefs and, you know.

It's easier, maybe, yeah. Yeah. So what happens after that, the royal court thing? Let's go through it. Then I got poached to do like a poached. I mean, I just got asked to do a BBC sketch show with a couple of guys. And I remember saying, oh, I don't know if I could do that. You know, women are always just the butt of sexual jokes.

And I haven't got big tits. And I'm not blonde. And I, you know, because all there was in england that time at that time really was like benny hill you got it yeah oh big tits oh nurse oh benny's pinching her bum mr it was that and then monty python they had one girl in it, in their troupe, called Carol, somebody who always played the sexy nurse. And there were no women. It wasn't like America where you had Gilda Radner and Carol Burnett and Lucille Ball. And, you know, we were very behind.

But you had great women stage actresses, right? Yes, of course. That's what I wanted to be. I mean, Peggy Ashcroft and Judi Dench and Maggie Smith, they are who I wanted to be. I mean, I was, I mean, you know, Peggy Ashcroft and Judi Dench and Maggie Smith. They are who I aspire to be. And I'm when I'm older. Oh, my goodness. They're the best.

Right. As you know, comedy shows. There was no sitcom really or a variety show with a woman that wasn't just heading it. No. So you felt like hemmed in. You couldn't do anything. No. And I, you know i thought

i don't want to be benny hill girl but this show that i ended up doing after the theater show was great and the and the the producer was a guy called paul jackson who he he'd figured out that there was a lot of young people in london at that time like dawn french and jennifer saunders yeah and uh hugh laurie and stephen fry and you know the comic strip he realized there was this whole wave of younger comedians and that you know weren't going to fit these tv formats what year was this this was like the early 80s yeah god it lasted that long he was great and he did the young ones you know and he figured out you know that let's do what we could do yes he was definitely new wave paul and he was he was at the bbc but he you know he just said to all the old

or farts at the bbc listen we're going to try something very new in 1981 yeah yeah and like was stewart lee around then too yeah stewart was uh that was his first like when he started doing before he quit and then came back yeah he did he like did stand up and he got sick of the audiences and then he's like i'm done and then he came back he's brilliant and alexi sale and rick male um and so but they were very much stand up comment i remember going to see them i mean i saw dawn and jennifer because because they were women they did a team oh they were amazing i saw them at this club in soho and i just thought oh my god this is this is the this is the future yeah

they came on and pretended to be like american girls talking about tam o'shawners and stuff and they were just so fresh and weird and wonderful they were women they were really funny so yeah hugh and stephen used to have a stephen Stephen Fry saw him yeah they had an act together like I wish I knew like I wish I knew more about like I always say this when I talk to British performers that I like I don't know enough I don't know the history of it I didn't grow up with it but everyone talks about like certainly Stephen Fry with such reverence like and he's a genius and I'm sure he is, but I got to watch that stuff. What was... Well, that was their club act together.

Their standup was, I don't think there's any record of that. It was just, maybe it is on their, a little bit of Fry and Laurie, I'm not sure. But he was in that tradition of the real genius and the generation before was Peter Cook.

Oh yeah, right, right, right. Peter Cook and Dudley Moore. Dudley Moore, yeah. Peter Cook was a genius. I mean, he could write. He was just, you know, in the Beyond the Fringe yeah yeah with alan bennett and peter cook i mean there it was you know incredible where does rowan atkinson fit into everything that he was like just before me a couple of years before they did a program called not the nine o'clock news and that

was rowan and mel smith and it was really really funny yeah yeah like but we never had our own sort of saturday night live see what i did when i first came to america was i didn't work straight away jim james brooks bless him he told me he said you can have a baby and all that and then we'll do a show he said go to the museum of broadcasting and watch all the american stuff from the late 40s 50s and get a grounding yeah in and so i watched your show of shows and imogene coker and all those ernie kovacs and i watched on all those shows that had been you know uh formats that had come from england and vice versa i learned so much i used to sit there every day it must have blown your mind. It was amazing.

And that's when I, as I say, I realized how incredible the women are. And James Brooks told you to do that. He did. But before that, you had this whole, like you did a show with French and Saunders, right? I did, briefly, yeah. Was it three of you?

It was called Girls on Top and it was with an American girl called Ruby Wax and it was like the female young ones because the young ones was, you know, that Rick Mayle and Alexi said. And how long did that last? I just did a year because I was having a baby. So they went on a bit longer.

Yeah, I was married like I was 20, early 20s. How'd you meet your husband? He was a producer on a show. Which show? Oh, he, not that one. He was, I used to see his name a lot on the credits. I think that guy does a lot of stuff. And he, and then he saw me on television and just did that classic, I'm going to marry that girl.

Oh, really? Which is hilarious. What did he see you on? That one made the impression. You don't remember? I don't know. He just said he was sitting in his flat. He used to live in America, though, in the 70s.

He'd gone over. Oh, the crazy 70s? He was in Hollywood in the crazy 70s? He had all the good stories? He had all the parties with Harry Nilsson and Peter Kirk and Robin Williams. He bought Spielberg's old house up on Lookout Mountain, a tiny little house. And this before you met him? Before he met me.

Oh, he was a bugger. He was always playboy bunny girls. Yeah, yeah. Crap. And he was one of those bachelors that eventually, you know, realized it was time to settle down with a smart brunette. Go back to England. Yeah. And as his friend, Ian LaFrenne, says,

you stopped him drinking, smoking, doing drugs. You basically ruined Alan's life. But he was ready to be ruined. Yeah. But where does the big music career fit in that was oh blimey see i've done everything i'm like um like oh yeah i was i got to be so this sketch show that i did that was turned out to be really good because paul jackson let us do modern stuff and didn't make me do be the best it was called three of a kind of bbc

with fabulous black comedian called lenny henry yeah and another guy called david coppelfield and it's kind of worked it became a saturday night show and i could so i was like the it girl it was popular six months very popular what year was that 82 81 82 and i remember just sitting in a hairdresser's one day getting my orange extensions put on my hair because that's where boy george used to go and a woman lent over and said do you want to make a record my husband has a record label called stiff oh that was a big and she was wearing a t-shirt that said if it ain't stiff it ain't worth a fuck and i said if i can get one of those t-shirts i absolutely will and they had all the like punk rock guys oh man it was the coolest label why Why they took me on, I don't know.

It was mad. I mean, it was the coolest label. Yeah. They had everybody for a minute. Oh, yeah. I had Nick Lowe and Rock Pile doing my backing tracks. A madness. You did?

It brought me a song. I had Nick Lowe in here. I loved it. It was great. Rock Pile. I loved Rock Pile. Dave Edmonds, yeah. Dave Edmonds, great guitar player.

And they had Devo in America. Right. and Lena Lovitch and Elvis Costello. That was the time. It was really a cool label. That was the time. And I was a sort of like commercial pop wing for a second. And I had a lot of hits. I was never the real deal. But did someone invent you?

Who was writing the songs? What was the idea? Kirst someone invent you? I mean, were you, who was writing the songs? What was the idea? Kirstie McCall, the late, great Kirstie McCall, who wrote amazing songs for herself. And I just loved her. She was, and she'd written They Don't Know, a really wonderful song, and she'd released it, and it had done pretty well.

But I just was obsessed with doing it again. And then because I was me, and I was, you know i'd like to laugh and i like dressing up i would just made it all kind of faux early 60s fun yeah yeah i put on beehives and purple mini skirts and do crazy videos and i think people all remember i had paul mccartney in my video and because i knew him and it was cool and i got him to sit in a car with me and so i would i had you know kirsty was the real deal you know sit low the guitar brilliant i but i sort of flashed it all up a bit yeah and it but it worked and uh and you had like i had great fun for a couple of years doing a couple of hit songs i did yeah i had some really big hits in. And then I had a big hit here with They Don't Know.

Oh, yeah, yeah. That's her song. The top ten hit, yeah. So she made some money? Yeah, Chrysalis did, yeah. Paul McCartney, how long have you been friends with him? How does that happen? Oh, a long time.

Well, at that time as well, I did a little part in his movie he did called Give My Regards to Broad Street, which is just kind of madness. It went on for a couple of years. He knew you from the TV show? Yeah, and he was just, yeah, we just got to be friendly, Linda and him. Oh, I was,

it was just magic. You know, there I was. I mean, because I'd been to a Beatles concert when I was five. Really? And I remember sobbing and my mum got tickets. I remember sobbing

and being so overwhelmed with feelings a five-year-old should never have. And if somebody had said to me, then don't worry, Tracy, you'll grow up and you'll get to meet Paul and you'll get to kiss him, actually, in a film. And I would have been like, don't be so silly. I think I'm going to explode. You saw them when they were wearing matching suits and everything. Yeah, and people were throwing gonks at the stage and no one could hear them. They were like stuffed toys. They were called gonks. Oh, you saw them when they were wearing matching suits and everything? Yeah, and people were throwing gonks at the stage and no one could hear them. Oh, they were like stuffed toys. They were called gonks.

Oh, okay. Yeah, and I remember screaming and screaming. And your mother was a fan? Oh, that's why she got the bloody ticket. She loved them. Yeah, she loved them. But you can remember it. I remember that concert and just being very frightened, actually.

Of what was happening? Yeah, I mean, it was mad. I was five. It was really frightening, Mark. I went with my boyfriend, Adam Wood. I think he was younger than me mean it was mad i was five it was really frightening mark i went with my boyfriend adam wood i think he was younger than me he was like four he wet himself it was ridiculous he took these two little small children just screaming girls it was horrible i can't imagine what because he really watched some of those foot some of the footage of the stones and any of those and the beatles too like it was just something just unleashed like like it had never been unleashed before just young girls

going crazy going crazy and there they are up on stage with two amps the size of a four guys with the size of a kallax cornflakes box you know no one can hear them you've got distressed five-year-olds in the front row you know it was did you tell paul about that yeah i told him did he remember the show no but um i did get to me and he's a lovely fellow and he's always been bumping to him all my life and you know i just feel just privileged to know him and he's lovely and he he gave johnny my son a plectrum when he was like three johnny a plectrum for a guitar you know now johnny plays guitar now he's just a lovely man and i was driving up to your house today yeah um it's a it's a nice area here and there's little bits that time forgot there's still like an ad in a window with the beatles in four

soda bottles no yeah it is like wow it's really that must be at a hipster store it's not oh really no it's not very hipster around here it is it's gotten a little hipster it has you think I don't know where you came in did you come in a time machine maybe maybe the street that you were on it was from 1967 so so from music why didn't you did you was there a point where you're like i can't do this it was i mean i was just lip-syncing my way around europe i just sing into a hairbrush for a laugh yeah um i remember being on some dumb pop show in holland and they would just sort of introduce my going hello tracy allman's here i'm just crazy you know that sort of you know when you feel just stupid they go tracy allman hello you think oh i just feel so stupid i'm standing there in my purple miniskirt and then he

and then it was live tv and then they were doing shock practice tactics and they put a live rat on my shoulder and i just thought and i just stared this guy down i thought you idiot i ain't doing this anymore this is it you just killed my career yeah it's your fault you ruined the fun for everybody yeah but was your husband he was a tv producer so what did he think of it from the beginning what he like he's always said about me she's a nice little learner my trace he that's why he was best friend oh really and they were uh he made peter cook love me i mean my husband he was just hilarious he's brilliant so you knew peter cook too a little briefly yeah because he used to come and stay at my husband's with my husband and

they just uh he was really funny. He loved what I did. He was my biggest fan. And he just, you know, and because of him, I got to do a lot of shows that we, you know, produced and distributed. And he raised the money for them. So we didn't, we could always, you know,

I still own the catalog now, all the shows we did together. So we thought we were the Desilu of Londonondon it sounds like you were kind of yeah but did he think the music was some sort of weird kind of like she's got to get this out of her system he said he liked a couple of the early ones and then i remember i had to sing oh the worst thing mark yeah they brought me to do the tonight show in la and uh with carson yeah oh boy i remember that yeah i remember the rainbow to do the Tonight Show in L.A. and with Carson. Yeah. Oh, boy. As a singer? Yeah.

And I remember the rainbow-colored curtains. And then I thought, oh, I'll do my lip syncing. I'll do my little, you know, they don't know about us. And they said, well, this is Doc Severinsen. Remember the band on the Tonight Show?

And you're going to sing live. Yeah. And Doc had the musicians work up a version. Oh, boy. It was like a scoop do it So I went on with cars, oh my god, I thought I could just do my you know, Kirsten Macaulay version I had to sing it like in this jazz. Yeah, Doc Severinsen style. Did you pull it off? No, it was appalling even my my husband, who was completely tone deaf, said I sounded like a wounded horse.

Oh, no. It was probably the most humiliating, dreadful experience of my life. So between that and the Holland experience, it was over. Oh, I was so done with the pop songs. Was Johnny nice to you? He was terrible to me. He looked at me with his cold little, he had like blue eyes, like little bird's eggs.

Yeah. And he just said to me, ah, so you do a poetry show in England. Totally, something totally, totally wrong. And I went, no. And then I found that my tongue had stuck to the roof of my mouth. It was the most awful experience.

I did get to go back on the show a few years later on like thanksgiving night with george burns yeah uh and johnny and had the most wonderful time and you know that sort of vindication where i got to say to him you are horrible to me johnny you asked me if i did a poetry show and i felt so stupid and i got and then we had a wonderful time you know so it went from being the worst thing ever to one of the nicest things oh and he remembered no probably not he took it and I made fun of Doc Severance and I did the whole thing so George Burns was 110

he he um no the shit he he went on first and I was remembering him coming to my dressing room and saying hello it was George a cigar. I'm really old, so I'm not going to be on when you come on because I might die. He said something like that. And I went, oh, I would hate that for you to die beside me. And George went, no, so I'll be in my little car going home. I said, don't you worry.

So he did tell me he was too old and couldn't stay on for my bit. That is classy that he knew enough to know that he didn't want you to feel like it was impolite i know i love that he told me that because they all everyone needs to sit out there together yeah yeah he couldn't i didn't blame him he didn't know but but still very polite it was lovely so when do you when do you start to how does the first manifestation of the show happen yeah what the american shows yeah i came to america to marry my husband we got married the first one was the tracy allman yeah and i met

my agent out here at the time a lady called martha lutrella icm she did that thing where we'll start at the top yeah you can go and see this man called jim brooks and and then we'll go down from there and we'll see if he, you know. Luckily, he wanted to do a show with me. I just got really, really lucky. But Jim Brooks, like at that time, like, because I've talked to him and, you know, there's several people who have great things to say about you.

One was Jim, who I had a long talk with in here and the other one was Jenji. Oh, yeah. And Jenji talked about a lot of people, but like with you, lit up oh and because you i guess she was a young writer on which one tracy takes on yeah yeah but but the first one was on fox so how do you get jim brooks you know who's a sitcom guy who was had a movie career to do you i don't know i just got lucky he just i feel to him I don't know he just liked the thought of doing

a variety show and he had some commitments at Fox and he just he just stuck with me and people were amazed he's a genius he's tough

he's tough he's really really hard to work for I mean he's he's so you know it's painful if you don't get it right

and you care so much about what he thinks and he put a great team together he put together this lady called Heidi Perl put a great team together he put together this lady called heidi perlman a great writer and a wonderful guy called jerry belson who he was just the funniest kindest man in the world i mean he'd he'd been on the dick van dyke show and he was gary marshall's yeah but so funny and so wicked yeah i remember we got our first Emmy nomination, and he was always bitching that I said he was old.

He went, it's my first nomination in color, honey. And he was, he'd just go, not. He came to LA and put an ad in the variety, and they said, Jerry Belson, funny as money. Not funny, no money. You know, he was. That was his. That was his thing, and he was wonderful to me.

And how did the show come together? What was the pitch? Oh, it was just doing everything. Just singing, dancing, me doing characters, me dressing up, me, you know. So it had no real structure other than it's all character-centric. Yeah, it was...

We love things like your show of shows. We just, you know um and you had guys that remembered that oh yeah guys that like did that type of television yeah we had mel brooks on the lot and he'd come in and do sketches with me and and then steve martin came in and did a sketch with me and it was like i was so shy it was like really bizarre you know steve martin wanted to come in i was like he didn't talk to me all week because he's kind of an odd guy and it was like you know it was like Tracy take him to your room and play your records and then on the night he was just amazing and we did this great sketch and but it was a very very frightening roller coaster ride of a show and I just stuck at it and just did tried everything I had wonderful

Julie Kavner she's great I adored Julie I mean I had these Julie Kavner. She's great. I adored Julie. She's so funny. I mean, I had these, you know, Dan Castellaneta, a wonderful actor that I found in Chicago. And they went on to do The Simpsons. The Simpsons. And how did that show run for what? How many did you do, like 50? We did more than that.

We did like three seasons, I think. And it's never been repeated or shown anyway. It's because there was so much music in it. I think the music clearances. Gets a little expensive. Yeah. And that was for Fox. Like right at the beginning.

It was the first show for Fox, yeah. Just you and Married With Children. That's all they had. Married With Children. And what did they always do? Mr. President. Madeleine Kahn was in a show. And George C. Scott was in something.

And Patty Duke was in something. I mean, it was, yeah, it was. And now it's like it became this huge thing. That was the very beginning of it. That was the beginning. And how did it end? What with me? Yeah.

Well, it just was, we won some Emmys and we were very, you know, very well thought of. And then the Simpsons spun off from the show, which was, that's what people remember it for now, which was incredible. I remember when it was on that, like, no, I remember that there was some sort of cultural kind of like, there's this genius lady here now. It was sweet. Yeah, it was odd. Yeah, and I'd sort of be on Interview Magazine.

Right, right. The cover and- And every time you go look and check in with what you were doing, you're like, I don't know who she really is. I know. And then people just thought, there was a rumor that I was somebody from Texas and I was just sort of impersonating. Oh, really? Yeah, that I was really from're like i don't know who she really is i know and then people just thought there was a rumor that i was somebody from texas and i was just sort of impersonating oh really yeah that i was really from tech i don't know but yeah it's it was it was pretty cool it was something i was yeah and i got tons of offers to do things and i thought

well what i really can do with these characters and i really dissolved into being other people and that's what jim brooks understood he you. He used to sort of think I was his little Peter Sellers at one time. And that was the biggest compliment ever. Did you love Peter Sellers? Oh, yeah. Because I imagine as somebody who grew up in Britain, that was like he was the guy. Oh, yeah.

I mean, he was a genius. He really was kind of like, it's hard to even explain it. Just like the early, you know, comedies of that. I'm All Right, Jack. I mean, you remember from Doctor Strange. Yeah, sure. And, you know, the Pink Panther. But early English films with him portraying people throughout the class system in England fascinated me.

Because that's what, you know, my whole thing about the class system. You did a whole bit, a series of shows about the class system. I yeah i did a show with michael palin about it and we played lots of uh we uh it was great that's one of the benefits i love palin i just want to work he's a sweetheart yeah it's adorable but that's some of the one of the benefits of of britain i guess in in a in in a comedic way is that you guys admit that there's a class system. In America, everybody thinks they're, you know, like just about to be upper class. Yeah.

Or they're just poor and they're mad. And there is a class system here. It's more about money and stuff. Well, that's what I'm, yeah, there definitely is, but no one talks about it. No, no. But in England, it's sort of like you know the delineation. Oh, totally.

I mean, it still perpetuates because you've got the queen at the top. Right. And then, you know, you've got these Eaton schoolboys. You know, we had Cameron and Boris Johnson and, you know, George Osborne. It was like Eaton reunion in Downing Street a couple of years ago. And, you know, it's that stuff that drives me potty. And my husband was such a working class guy. It just made him nuts.

But yeah, but the work. But there seems to be a continue, like maybe I'm projecting, but given the class system that it's so entrenched and it's been going on for so long, there still is this weird acceptance of it and reverence of the queen,

no matter what. Yeah. And you just kind of suck it up and that's who you are until there's a Brexit vote and then you really know what's going on. Yeah. And I've kind of got a grudging respect for her now i mean she's in her 90s and she's done an

amazing job but the rest of it and what it stands for yeah it's like we pay people millions of pounds to be better than us you know i just don't get it i mean it was line yeah and then people meet me go oh they're marvelous oh they're marvelous you go what because they're up in scotland in ranger overs things, owning all the fishing rights. What? Don't say anything nasty about her. They're marvellous. You go, why?

I never got it. I don't get it. I guess it's, I don't know. It's historical, I guess. I mean, what else could it be? America loves it. I mean, it's not tourists. It's wonderful.

You know, people come to England and they look at the palaces and the collections and the history and the Tower of London and the beheadings and all the Henry VIII. It's fabulous. But I don't think you need people living actively in these places anymore. We'd still make just as much money showing everyone around like a bicycling monarchy like the Dutch. Why can't they just get an apartment somewhere? Get the queen. Yeah, I know. Get the queen a nice apartment. Fine. You know, a nice timeshare condo. right bicycling monarchy like a dutch you know apartment somewhere get the yeah i know get the queen a nice apartment fine you know a nice timeshare condo on donald trump's golf course

up in scotland you know i remember i was there during right after high school and it was charles and diana's wedding when i was there and it was crazy yeah and i didn't i didn't really know anything about it it just happened to be there there. And I think I was in France. And the whole world was going nuts. I know. Did you ever meet her? Yeah, I liked her. I felt sorry for her.

I thought she was trying to do something. And she realized that you couldn't sit around and do nothing. And as I say, shoot things up with Range Rovers in Scotland. You had to get out and meet some folk and go to hospitals and stuff. I think she earned her keep. I liked her. I thought it was a tragedy. And they were so mad about that in a way, weren't they? It was hard, yeah. But it's our soap opera.

It sells all the papers. People love it, really. I think that's why they love it. Yeah, we're never going to be a republic. You know, we did get rid of him years ago. Yeah. We killed Charles I and we had Oliver Cornwell for 11 years and it was jolly dull, evidently. He wouldn't let anybody do anything or play know play a lot of music and then we got charles the

second in with his long hair and his spaniels and all his mistresses and it was fun again you know so we did do it once i guess that's what keeps it keeps the spirit up over there sort of like the royals have got to be crazy and fun and they're just more interesting and better than us i don't know but uh so like the simpsons like that was just a series of interstitial stuff yeah yes matt graining came in and he'd written his life in hell i remember remember those books we used to buy those in you know shops on melrose and heidi perlman was a big fan and i remember him coming in and meeting him and brilliant fella and then he created the simpsons for the show and seeing the first drawings of you know bars with blue hair yeah

yeah um i love impersonating how it's so mean yeah and uh they just off they went and my goodness it's become astonishing did you get a piece of it? I get a tiny piece of it, yes, Mark, enough to keep me comfortable. I know it's doing well. I was just in Italy, and, you know, it's got Le Simpson's Bath Farm, you know, Bagno del Lavaggio, and everything, these little shots, and I go,

Johnny, just paid for the holiday, kid. You know, I mean, it's just everywhere. It's crazy. Well, it's fantastic. Yeah, and it keeps going. It keeps going it keeps going so all right so what happens like it's hard to go through your whole career obviously also i drive everyone mad i try bits of everything and then i do really classy stuff you know i was in a film with meryl street as i was a pop star yeah i got cast in plenty and that was a fabulous, serious, wonderful movie.

And you can do it? I can. You can be serious? I can be serious. Does it bore you? Darling, I'm a thespian. No, that was what I, and I had a wonderful time doing that. So was there a point where you got tired of TV and just were like, I've got to do something else?

No, I've never been tired of TV. I like TV. It's great. It's where my strength has been. I've done a few movies. I've never had tired of TV. I like TV. It's great. It's where my strength has been. I've done a few movies. I've never had a really successful movie. I love being a part of them, but TV's great. And it couldn't be better now.

Bang, you do another one the next week. It's not very good. Okay, we'll do another show next week. And it's that excitement. And movies take forever. And then they just sit there and they're awful. You never know when they're going to come out. You don't even remember what it's about by the

time it comes out no so what what was the HBO how did you shift like well I'd finished doing the Fox show and then I had sort of great

respect and interest from people and Chris Albrecht and Michael Fuchs yeah Michael Fuchs was still there Carolyn Strauss yeah and they

I know they uh I'd done the show about class system in England with Michael Palin and they thought that would be a good format for America. And then I took on New York, and I would take on all these different subjects, and that's how the HBO show got going. And they were themed. Yeah, yeah.

So it gave me a central theme, and I just put together. And that's where you met Jenji? That's when I met Jenji. She'd been working on, I think, Friends. And she was like the kid, you know. She came in with her tight jeans. And she was always very cool, Jenji. You know, she'd just been playing, you know, cards with Hispanic guys on the boardwalk in Venice.

You know, she had like multi-ethnic friends. You'd go, wow, Jenji. And she was just – and I just felt a bit like her headmistress though. I go, where's your script? You know, it's like, where's your homework? She'd take a bit of time turning in her homework. But when it came in, it was just fabulous. Well, how did that work on those shows?

Like in general with the writers, when you were doing characters, they'd come up, would you come up with the characters? Yeah, I pretty much come up with the characters and then. And then they place it or. Yeah, and then we'd find a way to apply them to that show and i had different different groups like i'd have genji my young my kid yeah i'd lovely gail parent who used to do the golden girls and had done mary hartman mary brilliant who is that um forget her name gail parent uh-huh and then i had uh ian lefrenier and dick Clement, these English writers who they were on. I mean, I had lots of George McGrath and just this various group of people that were very diverse and eclectic, which is what I do.

And some were better at writing for certain characters. And there were some characters I could just always write myself. And we would collaborate and I'd work with different people and it just all came together. And would there be plenty of room for riffing improvising totally i was it's like 30 to me on the day is spontaneous and happens and yeah and so after all these like shows you did here to go back to britain back to the bbc was must have been like going to like like you were were a kid again. It was funny. I mean, cause it's so, it's like entrenched,

isn't it? It's like, it is what, like there's that old studio there. I did it some sort of radio show there and you feel the history. If it's what I'm thinking, if it's the same building. Yeah.

There's the radio studios are still there. All the TV stuff is gone. Now the studios. Um, but I wanted to spend more time inland after my husband died and be near my daughter mabel who is just the power source and just amazing and so and the bbc said would you like to come in and talk about a project i thought my god i haven't been here for 30 years and i you know i thought i was going to go back in it would be all the what what what you know the old

fellows with the there was a fellow there with a bow tie robin nash and it fought in the second world war more jokes about traffic wardens that's probably what and they used to do that sort of stuff i thought oh god it's those guys again i'm just sunk and i went in and it's now run by an incredible woman called charlotte moore uh-huh and there was a young girl called my fan we more and my fan we such a wellish name and um they just said you know would you like to do a show about modern day britain and i said yeah britain's so great right now it's a melting pot and we're all like multi-ethnic and european union and you know this global hub and you know a year later we vote bloody brexit but um but i did it

knowing that hbo were going to take it as well because i said i can't just do things about england i'm so global now yeah and um so i gave it a go again you know you gotta crack on and do it and found some fabulous writers and it's it's been a joy english writers yeah but actually the guys that write on veep um oh yeah what was amando Iannucci's crew, Kevin Cecil, Andy Riley, Georgia Pritchett particularly. They all write on Veep, but they're English. That's a funny show, man. Yeah, they're great. They're great.

It's a really good team. And it's come together. And I do impersonations now, which I never really used to do. But I realized they would. There's a difference between characters and impersonations. And I thought, so in a way, it's been a bit naughty because I do Judi Dench. Oh, you do it great. And play her as a national treasure.

And she's so well thought of that she can shoplift and nobody does anything about it. And so, in a way, I was stealing from the legend that is Judi Dench. It was great. Camilla Parker Bowles, you know. That's funny, too. Maggie Smith. Angela Merkel has been a big hit for me. Yeah.

I just sort of imagined her as somebody she probably isn't. Right. And it's been wonderful. It's hard to read, huh? I think that she thinks she's very sexy. And she's a big sex bomb, sex bomb, and that Jean-Claude Juncker is always trying to, you know, to smell her sexy mask.

And I imagined her as somebody that's amongst all the men, and she's wearing a beige suit, and she's a very sex bomb. So that was my premise for her, that that's been the problem. Everyone's trying to hate on her. Oh, really? So she's having to shut down? You know, with what's going on in America and her allegiance with Macron in France and Germany together,

you know, they're becoming, I think Americans are much more aware of her. Oh, yeah. And I just love Brigitte Macron. I want to be her. And I love the way Trump said to her, you look great. You're physically in great shape.

Oh, shut up. It's so embarrassing. Oh, you look great. You're physically in great shape. Oh, shut up. It's so embarrassing. Oh, you do Melania too? Oh, we did Melania like as a Westworld robot that the Russians have sent in years ago. What she was, she was an early robot and now, you know, she's like mere space station. She needs to be dropped into sea. But they're trying to keep her going. Yeah, because they need the information.

Yeah, because they need the information. But she's really old now. She needs to be replaced. So we keep having her coming in for a retool. That's hilarious. And they're all available on HBO now? Yeah. The first season has been on HBO already.

And the second season will be on after Bill Maher's show in October. Great. Yeah. And you got nominated for an Emmy? I did. Again? Yes, nice. got nominated for an Emmy? I did. Again? Yes, nice. How many have you won? I've got seven.

That's amazing. Yeah. It's lovely. It's exciting. Yeah. I know. I'm still doing it. Look, you know.

Yeah. You never get sold winning awards, does it? No. It's lovely. It gives everyone a boost. People love it. The Emmys is like the top thing. It's lovely.

Do you do a much stage work? No. I couldn't do stand-up or stuff. But what about acting on the stage? I have done plays at times. I'm just not an eight-show-a-week person. Yeah. I find it hard.

I don't know. You've done theater. A little. I do stand-up. I mean, I haven't done much theater, and I just did my first couple of TV shows. I have a whole new like you know one thing you realize is a stand-up is that maybe I didn't get into this to work because like you know I I loved uh acting and stuff but there is a lot of waiting involved where you're kind of like okay it's about to happen yeah I'm gonna films

are even worse yeah I know. But I love doing it. I did my own show for four seasons, and that was great, and I was very busy. But you work your ass off, and you're wearing heavy makeup. I have to imagine that some of the bits that you do, you're in the chair for a day. Six hours? What? There's no makeup I will do anymore that takes more than two hours and they have to be pre-painted and you know ready to go and i get two guys to stick it on me in the

morning and then i but if i'm in them for more than 14 hours i start to go a bit nuts it's like spielunking it's like you know yeah being buried alive and there's nothing worse than a member of the crew walking past you and saying are you okay in there yeah in there and you're covered in like a new stupid sod why did you mention that in there are you okay in there no help me help me give me out yeah and i'd be in a fat suit and a you know with a oxygen tank thing beside me to keep me cool and, you know, the wig and the... You think, oh, boy, what do I do this for? But I just love it. If I try and look like me, what's the point? So, you know, I'm still doing it and I still love it.

Now I'm doing more because of the political scene, actually. People really want current stuff. It was no good, like, shooting a show and six months later the piece with Angela Merkel or Theresa May or Melania Trump comingania trump coming out you know it's got to be like saturday night live a little bit you know we yeah we we've been writing stuff like on and shooting on a thursday and it goes out on the saturday and it's so yeah you have to because the news cycle the news cycle and people's attention span and everything so it's kind of exciting working that way but where was that piece that i saw or i watched of theresa i mean it seems like you did they're they're long form pieces they're not sketch pieces they're you know you

give these characters time to breathe yeah yeah because you sort of have to in order to give it some depth and to make it really hit i mean that's good writing i mean you're not just going for some weirdo no it's not a quick quick cheap impersonation yeah just being me no i really like to know what the underlying stuff is. And yeah, that was, but we got to mention within that sketch. Yeah, yeah. Stuff that hadn't even happened yet. So, you know, that was, no, that's what I like to do.

Yeah, exactly. And no laugh track and stuff. No, no, it's much better. No, no. So what, in looking back, do you know why do you get lost in characters do you know do you find i mean do you seem to like yourself yeah i mean you don't seem to be uncomfortable i'm a really normal kind of person i'm not like you know i'm not that dark depressed but there's no reason to be so miserable losing comedy i mean i've had some bleak things

happen to me but i'm certainly'm certainly a pretty sensible person. But you're not getting lost in characters because you can't stand. No, I soon snap out of it. Yeah, yeah. Because my family would be like, oh, shut up. Enough.

Yeah, enough. Stop it. So do you have a place here too, or what? Not anymore. I don't live in L.A. anymore. So you're just running here too or what? Not anymore. I don't live in LA anymore. So you're just running around doing the thing? Yeah, I just come back in and see my son. Because I'm in England mostly.

And you know what you tend to do when you come to LA now? What? Medical. Oh, really? Because over there, they don't know anything about preventative medicine. It's like, well, if you haven't got flames coming out the top of your head, you don't need to see me, do you? You can fill like weeks with like, you know, minor medical appointments.

They love it here. It's such a big business here. Yeah, yeah. But you've also got the guild coverage, I imagine. I do. So you just go down to Bob Hope Health Center. Oh, man. It's like.

That's so funny. That's a vacation. Like you have national health care there, which is fine, but you can really make a week of it here. You could really make two, two at my age, please. It's always bits to do. It's all maintenance, you know. So you got all up to speed. You know what you got to eat and what you got to take.

Yeah, yeah. I'd so do that once a year. Okay. Well, I'm glad you're well. Thank you for talking to me. I'm well. It's nice to talk to you. I think that was good.

Do you feel good about it? Yeah. I was nervous was nervous about it why do you not like talking to girls no i like talking to girls who do you like talking to i like talking to everybody but similar types that you know no no what happens to me is that because i put so much reliance on the conversation occurring that i don't really do a lot of like structural questions so like I always get nervous sort of like what if what if we don't talk what if it doesn't happen some people aren't really some people aren't spontaneous what if you had anyone in here that's a bit stupid and dull and doesn't talk back to you well I know I just talk ad nauseum probably talk a lot of crap but I always think if I spoke to someone and they just like think they just stopped well no what happened what used to happen what sometimes happens is that

people expect to be interviewed so if if someone comes in here and they're just sort of like okay then i'm like oh no the publicist sitting behind them i don't let anyone in here i don't i i don't let anyone in here but sometimes it takes like 15 20 minutes to find one thing that'll just open it up like something will open it up. Like something will open it up. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. But you don't know what it's going to be.

You just don't know what it's going to be. Like I've had people come in here like John C. Reilly. He literally comes in and goes, I don't like doing these. I don't want it. I don't. It ruins the mystique about who I am. And thank God I used to have a clown painting in my house. And he just went off on clowns for like 20 minutes.

I'm like, thank God for clowns and that he loves clowns. He likes clowns. Well, yeah. It was just like a way to talk. Yeah, yeah. Like, I don't know when it's going to happen. Yeah. But no, I like talking to everybody.

I've never had that big of a problem. I like talking to girls. It's nice to talk to women. Does this seem like I have a problem? No, some comics are such a man's world. Many either like women or they don't like women, especially in comedy, I think. You know, there's a real boys club group.

I think that's true. I believe that's true, but I think that they've been proven wrong. Yeah. Maybe you need to remind them occasionally. Well, it's a great time for girls right now. It's me going on about reminding myself about Carol Burnett, about Lily Tomlin, about Gilda Radner, about Lucille Bourne, about Gracie Allen, George Byrne's wife. Julia Louis-Dreyfus.

Yeah. Genius. Amazing. I don't think that people give Carol Burnett and those people enough credit, really. I've wanted to talk to her and Lily Tomlin. Look, I've tried. I've talked to Julia Louis-Dreyfus. She's shy.

Who, Carol Burnett? Carol, she is really. I mean, she's just a lovely, lovely actress. I mean, she was so endearing and so loved. And then some of the sketches, they're so fabulous. She's so sad. I know, I know. And to talk to her about her time in the cbs lot yeah and how

she felt like she was the goody goody lady doing her show and the smothers brothers next door were like smoking dope and saying we're the bad boys and you've got to talk to her about being on the lot at that time it's fabulous but you do think now that the the sort of boys club is diminishing a bit don't you yeah a little bit because bit. Because there's so many great shows. Like Insecure is another great show. Oh, yeah. She's gorgeous. She's great. Love her.

And then I love Donald Glover, you know, in Atlanta. That's my new favorite one. That's a great show. But I love seeing ensemble shows where everyone can. Yeah, Veep is real good at that. Veep is great. It's crazy. She's crazy funny.

Yeah. They do like some.'d like we got a five a woman in late night now it's a bit much we've got samantha b and that's great but it would be nice to see that's true yeah we can't keep at the women in daytime giving away hair dryers and talking about ovarian cancer i mean let us do some late night shit guys i think you just pitched for your uh are you ready to host no i, I couldn't do it. No? No, not me, but. Well, I'm glad that your show's still on.

I'm glad you're still working. Thank you for talking to me. I just love it to talk to you. That was Tracy Almond. Almond? No, Tracy Almond. And as I said, the second season of her HBO show Tracy Ullman's show premieres this Friday October 20th please go get the

book if you haven't gotten it Waiting for the Punch Words to Live By from the WTF podcast by Mark Marin and Brendan McDonald bunch of people in there 150, 160 bits and pieces of interviews themed beautifully contextualized through chapters that you

can all relate to yeah it's a good book you can go to get it at a bookstore you can go to mark marron book.com so there's that and i'll noodle for a second and then i gotta go Boomer lives! created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations,

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