WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 856 - Bassem Youssef / Sam Seder

Episode Date: October 18, 2017

Bassem Youssef was a surgeon in Egypt who started doing a YouTube show from his house and eventually became the most popular television personality in his country, doing what people called "The Egyptian Daily Show." Bassem talks with Marc about using comedy as a political weapon and what happens when the government pushes back in a life threatening way. Also, Marc's old friend and co-worker Sam Seder stops by to talk about doing political news every day in the current climate. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Lock the gate! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fuck nicks? What's happening? I am Marc Maron. This is my podcast, WTF.

Got kind of a double header today. Yeah, my old buddy Sam Seder from the Majority Report is going to be here. Back in the day we had a show, a streaming internet show before anyone streamed the internet. Way ahead of the curve. show before anyone streamed the internet way ahead of the curve but he's the host of the majority report with sam cedar airs live monday through friday at noon eastern on majority.fm it's also available as a podcast sam cedar will be here shortly it's always nice to see sam in a difficult way it's difficult and nice to see Sam. There's usually some tension, but I don't think it's there as much anymore. I think we're both older and maybe a little more humbled by the great wheel, the great wheel of time and life, humbled by the wheel.

Can you dig it? My second guest today is Bassem Youssef. If you're not familiar with that name, Bassem Youssef, he was a surgeon in Egypt who started doing a YouTube show. And he eventually became the most popular television personality in Egypt, doing what people called the Egyptian Daily Show. Eventually, he had to flee the country for speaking out against the government. Yep, that's where that happened. And now he's here in LA going on auditions. Life of a rebel is tough. It's tough.

Doesn't get easier. So what else? Los Angeles, folks, people here. If you want to hear me and brendan talk about waiting for the punch and other inside stuff about the podcast this is your one chance we're going to be at the ann and jerry moss theater at the herb alpert educational village in santa monica on sunday october 29th at 7 p.m., one night only, Los Angeles. Go to LiveTalksLA.org to get tickets or go to the tour page of WTFPod.com.

You can get a ticket and a book for a bundle price or just get a ticket and bring the copy of the book you already have. We'll talk, we'll answer questions, we'll sign all your stuff, and we'll hang out. That's Sunday, October 29th. Go to LiveTalksLA.org or WTFPod.com. Can you dig it? I don't know why that, you know, why am I doing that? Why am I doing that old bit from the movie The Warriors? I've got, there's no plan to've got there's no plan to it there's no agenda to it why am i giddy terrified and giddy i do have a couple emails i'll read we got a pretty

good loaded show i don't need to ramble too long i need to drive this into a ditch or spiral down my the hole of self and drag you guys with me. I hope you're holding up all right. I don't know. Either things are going to change in the midterms or we've all got to start learning how to love Jesus. All right, two emails. I'll read them to you. Subject line, your balls.

How am I not going to open that up? How am I not going to pop that open? I'm a 49-year-old widow. I'm training for my second half marathon in Brooklyn, New York. Of course, I listen to What the Fuck while I run because why not? I think things which come out of your mouth. I vibe with what you have to say as well as your interviews until today. In the middle of a six-mile run, in the middle of a very orthodox neighborhood,

I listened to your intro to the Tom Colicchio interview. The story of you getting attacked by your cat, Big Head, because you were naked was hilarious. Laughed so hard and loudly. I truly wish there was a way that my Hasidic brothers knew that I was laughing at your exposed balls when they're not even supposed to make eye contact with me. Thank you for always making my run significantly more enjoyable. By the way, I included the part being a widow in case any of your male listeners want to date me. Lock the gates, Karen. I'm not going to tell my male listeners.

All right, Karen. Now, you know that. All right, Karen, if they if they can get you on, if they can find you on the information that I have, I have shared, then maybe either they're they're truly in love. There may be desperate or they might be quite frightening. Maybe all of the above. Here's another email. Subject line, Satan. Hello, Mark, Brendan, WTF people. My name is Peyton.

I'm a 24-year-old musician based out of Florence, Alabama. Muscle shoals. I love your podcast and keep up with everything you do because I identify with you on some deep level, and I love comedy, interviews with people I do and don't know about, and music, all of which you seem to enjoy too. Anyways, I'm listening to the newest episode now, and I just heard what you said about Trump being Satan and the evangelicals making a deal with him. I think you're absolutely right about that. I'm a Christian myself.

I don't really consider myself an evangelical because there are some very negative things that go along with that, but I do consider myself a believer in Jesus Christ. That being said, I think old Donnie is a good example of the dark Lord. If I've ever seen one, I just wanted to reassure you that not all of us, Jesus people support this fool that has somehow become our leader. I believe in you and I'm glad you're doing what you're doing. I'll continue to support you as long as possible. Keep it up, man. Peyton. Thank you, Peyton. Glad to hear from a Jesus believer who sees Satan the way I do. Obviously, I'm not a full-on Satan guy. Obviously, we're talking about comic book land, the sort of illustrated metaphysical, the mythological metaphysical, the ornate and elaborate metaphysical.

One version of it, but it is compelling. It is compelling. Making monsters is compelling. It is compelling. Making monsters is compelling. Identifying monsters is compelling and satisfying. Having them reveal themselves to be honest to God fucking monsters, satisfying and terrifying. Fact is, a lot of monsters out. A lot of fucking monsters out. So, sam cedar what i already told you a bit

about sammy uh the part where we're airing today is all about how to deal with the news every day in this climate and since sam does political news every day he was out in la and it was a good idea to have him back on and he's a true friend and. And I find him very entertaining, even when he's not being intentionally entertaining. This is me and Sam. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that.

Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+.

We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+.

18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Cedar. cedar is that too loud you good no that's pretty good you know how to do it yeah i have these exact same distro box you do yeah is that what you call it a distro box or distribution oh i call it a i thought it was like a headphone box headphone mixer. Headphone mixer or something. That's fine. Distro box. Well, I don't know if it's called that. I may have made it up. So, Sam, what are you doing in Los Angeles?

I'm actually out here for a surprise birthday party with a friend of mine. Oh, really? Yeah. And did it happen yet? No. But I guess it's not live, so he's not going to- No, he's not going to. I'm sure he doesn't.

Charlie. Oh, Charlie Fisher? Yeah. He's turning 53? No, 50. 50. how old are you now i'm just 50 you're just 50 yeah really a little younger than you is that not apparent when did you turn 50 last year oh how do you feel old yeah yeah well let's let's get some of the i had one of the best softball games in my life the other day though you didn't hurt yourself? No, I haven't been able to play for two weeks.

I talked to another friend, my old friend Lance, and he keeps injuring himself at softball, and I'm like, maybe it's over. I can't even walk anymore. Maybe it's not the, maybe it's over. I was done in by my own success. Yeah. I had like two home runs, and now I can't walk anymore because I had to run around the bases. But you're a hero to many.

I mean, I had my day. Yeah. Yeah. And I haven't been able to come back. Who do you play with? Just guys in Brooklyn. Hudson? Oh, in Brooklyn?

Yeah, in Prospect Park. So wait, so you got the place in Brooklyn and you got the farm up there? Yeah, more or less. And you go up there on weekends? Yeah, less, you know, not on weekends yeah uh less you know not as much as we used to and how the children how's uh uh saul and uh myla myla uh myla's uh 11 but i i mean you know going on 16 which is classic do you speak to her she um she will complain to me when I cut off her access, her data. Oh, really?

Yeah. At 11? Oh, dude. It's such a nightmare. What did you let them do? Well, you know, she walks 20 minutes to school. Right. And so I gave her a phone.

It should have been a flip phone. Yeah. And. But you can't do that, right? Because she'll get there and the other kids will have the other phone and then you're it's a different world i mean you know she spends a lot of time on it but she still does her homework and you know i don't know my parents told me don't watch so much tv and just about every dollar i've made was a function just about

everything i've done yeah is in some way related to TV. Right. So I'm not going to. You think you're creating a tech genius? Was that the logic? That like letter on the phone? No, I'm just saying like, you know, if she does what she's supposed to do. Yeah. Then. It's okay.

If, you know, it's a social thing. Right. But it's just texting usually and like what? Snapchat or whatever? Snapchat, Instagram. I don't know. You don't know? Well, I do know. I? Snapchat or whatever? Snapchat, Instagram. I don't know. You don't know? Well, I do know.

I think she tried to follow me on Instagram. Yeah, she may have. Yeah. I didn't do it. Well, she probably decided like, what's the point? Yeah. Well, I don't barely use it. She wasn't that impressed.

There was nothing impressive about it. She listened to a couple of your podcasts and was like, man, I listen to Joe Rogan are you still doing one yeah I still eggs every day actually in fact I even from out here I called into my own show today you have a co-host that works with you yeah I mean he's he's he fills in for me um well you know once a week more or less and um in more you know i do like a free half and then a and a and a and a member half and the member half tends to be funnier and he does um he's very funny i mean he's also very knowledgeable politics but he's also very funny michael brooks now but i have to assume that uh that now is like uh like now that now that there's seemingly almost no way out of the shit we're in now that this must

be just uh incredibly uh uh rich for you if you know what it's actually the there's a lot more people listening yeah um and it's activated a lot of people but it was honestly the last thing well aside from obviously from for the country yeah um it's it's not what i wanted to do yeah you know to go back to where we were you know in 1968 no but i mean i'm talking about professionally speaking in terms of the show to where it's just like talking about how bad donald trump is and the republicans and the conspiracies and the you know the yeah and i don't even go through that so much this is like it was getting there was a very there's the the left has is is different than it was 15 years ago in in

a better way or worse in a better way uh in some in in most ways better in some ways you know not so great yeah um like there was a lot of ideas that were starting to develop and they're still going on now it's just that they're you know the debate about um you know a ubi which is a universal basic income versus a job guarantee yeah is sort of been sidelined a little bit it still exists but right but that's not what there's bigger problems yeah and but you know i was gearing up prior to the election for like okay there's going to be a huge antitrust push and and and no monopolize you know we're going to attack monopolies and this is going to be a another fight between sort of like the the center center left and the left yeah and um now it's just a fight for the actual democracy well i mean the funny thing is that

it's still going on yeah and it's just um in its in some ways just as intense yeah and it's still going on yeah and it's just um and it's in some ways just as intense yeah and it's um a fight for um and part of it intersects with like should you be talking you know this the the russia stuff or whatever it is and so it's it's it's interesting but it's also just very difficult to sort of navigate from my perspective. You mean the arguments within the left as to what to prioritize? That's what I wanted to talk about. Right. But now it's sort of like, oh, I'm going to ignore the fact that the head of the FBI just got fired because he's been investigating.

Well, I don't think i can avoid talking about that that would be weird that would be weird do a politics show yeah right don't get distracted we have by the fact that the president's under investigation or don't get distracted by the fact that like he's going to nato and literally acting like a child. Like a toddler. I didn't watch that video where he pushed some guy aside. Yeah, he pushed. Well, there's two elements to it.

One is he's so, well, everybody knows this. He's insane. But he pushed aside the, I think it's the prime minister of Montenegro. Right, yeah. Like shoved him out of the way. He's a new guy. Shoved the new guy out of the way. So that he could be out in front of the group that is there.

And it's funny just from like an interpersonal thing. Like the prime minister of Montenegro sort of like turned and thought like it was like a joke. And he tried to put his arm around him. He realized like, oh my God, this guy's gunning for the front. But then there's also this other, sort of the next level is, and I don't know if I buy into this because I just don't think that Trump

has this level of situational awareness, that this prime minister of Montenegro was supposedly the, I believe it's something to the effect of, a target of a coup that was supposedly orchestrated by Putin. Yeah, and he fought Putin. And so I don't know if Donald Trump is like, I'm going to shove him out the way.

Well, that's the weird thing is that both on the left and the right have their own sort of conspiratorial analysis of things. of uh you know conspiratorial analysis of things and he he puts out so much information so much contradictory information so much insanity that like there's enough there for you to connect dots that may not be there but but it's sort of like oh it's like and this is a normal tendency i mean i think you know this uh your dad and yeah i had a little bit of this with my dad a little bit and i don't where you try no where you try and rationalize yeah stuff that is just not necessarily rational right and but you as a uh not a crazy person just try and put it in some type of order like there has to be some reason why this is happening yeah and and it's possible that it's just there is no reason why it's happening it's possible that it's just, there is no reason why it's happening. It's just that the guy, you know, it's untreated syphilis.

Yeah. And who knows? Which has actually been a- Is that one of them? You're going around? There was a piece by a doctor in the New Republic. Really? Yeah.

A guy named Boitler, who was a journalist's father who just said, basically the piece is like, and this was like in January. Yeah. Listen, I'm not a partisan. It's very important that his doctor check him for syphilis because it can apparently go away

and lie dormant for like 20 years and come back and give you some type of neuropathy. Yeah, yeah. And that's his theory. But you were saying that like, you you you you talk to your child like like you would talk to trump like you the montenegro thing like you you see like when i go and drop saul off it at preschool yeah like you see them like okay it's lineup time and you see them shove each other and do that exact same

thing you just say like saul it's okay you can be lineup time. And you see them shove each other and do that exact same thing. You just say like, Saul, it's okay. You can be number three. How does he take it? I mean, pretty well for like a three or four year old. Yeah. But like on a day to day basis, like you're in it. And like, you know, I, you know, to my fault, was pretty detached throughout the Obama years. And, you know, kind of like doing what, you know, I, you know, to my fault, have, was pretty detached throughout the Obama years.

And, you know, kind of like doing what, you know, one of the reasons. I'm fascinated by how you still are sort of like defensive and are project on some measure of judgment onto me, the world, that you're not doing enough in terms of politics yeah oh yeah i still do yeah yeah i'm fascinated by that why i just find it fascinating yeah because like i was like it was not really my forte to begin with but like i still feel guilty every day yeah i'm impressed by that yeah it's a it's gotten it's gotten harder because i don't think i was ever very good at talking about it. I think that I came into it as a novice and not very savvy, and I reacted. I'm a good reactor, and if you load me up, I can certainly be compelling. But I feel like you're better at it. I think Rachel's better at it.

There's plenty of people who are better at it and more knowledgeable than me. Yeah. And I immediately get to a tone that is completely repelling to almost everybody. So that's one of the reasons. That was one of the big decisions. So now I just sit in a certain amount of, you know, kind of terrified paralysis. Well, I mean, I think everybody is. Yeah.

you know kind of terrified paralysis well i mean i think everybody is yeah i mean it's it's people are my sense is that there are people who are sort of like taking a step back now and they're not as the the same level of intensity brendan literally had to draw a line at some point because i was like texting him and like needing explanation for everything he's like hey man everyone's going through this i can't oh i hear from people i get texts a lot from people who, like, I don't even think knew six months ago that I did a daily political talk show for 10 years. And now, like, I get, like, literally get a text every half an hour. Yeah. Or just like, did you see this latest? Yeah.

I mean, now, like, I have. I mean, what's weird is that when we were on Air America, I would go to parties. Not many, but like a dinner party or something. And I would know so much more about what was going on politically than everybody at that table. To the point where it was just, it was weird. What are these guys doing? Now, it feels like everyone's everyone has is like completely as immersed and that's a good thing i think that's a good thing you know i think

some people i would prefer that people are more interested in stuff that is like the politics versus the intrigue and also versus sort of like damage control like what do we do to fix it as opposed to like you know what ideas need to be damaging control is important but there's a big fight right now on the left is like how do you fight donald trump do you fight donald trump by saying that he's a horrible human being and um and that he's bringing about a fascist america or do you also need to sort of say like hey here's a different vision for what america can be and you know in terms of like right single-payer health care where do you stand i mean i think both are effective from electoral

standpoint yeah and and and uh it depends on who the constituency is and but it's a hard thing to not slide into one or the other. What do you do? Like, do you know how, you're 50, but you have two kids, so it's different than me. Do you know how to, do you enjoy things? No, I don't. I spend, I am particularly like, you know, I think I was starting to look forward to that. Like, I wanted to branch out yeah

but the whole trump thing literally has made my life so narrow now that i'm constantly updating because i feel like people i take my job very seriously yeah and um i feel like i've got to know about what's going on and so much of it is stuff that I'm not terribly keyed into. But like, you know, to read now about what's going on with the FCC, like with Sinclair Media. Right. You know, stuff that is like, nobody hearing this knows what I'm talking about. I do, because like I have been keeping up more than like i do have i still have the weird um like i can get in back into the narrative pretty easily from being at air america at the beginning for so long like and i i know like i can keep these different trajectories sort

of going so i know the impact of that and how horrible it could be but like then i don't know where to go with that other than just paralysis and and terror so like for me what's happening is like you have no outlet for it well i mean i could but i what am i going to say like no you don't have an outlet here's another reason i don't think you'd want to do this show no i don't of course not and and i and frankly neither would your audience no but also there's the fact that like i don't have any answers what do you what am i going to tell people to do uh make some phone calls uh maybe write a senator you know what you know like i mean other than be aware what do you do well i mean awareness is is uh important and i mean you can go and and sort of get activated there's a lot of like grassroots stuff that's developing now but yeah no there's not there's a lot of like grassroots stuff that's that's developing now but yeah no there's not

there's no there's no silver bullet i mean no no you know um you need a lot of them you need like a like a full magazine if somebody has a hotline to the guy who gives out heart attacks but do you like because i'm finding that with me like i i i really feel an urgency to to to all of a sudden like you you know enjoy things i which is no way to enjoy things with a sort of desperation a panic i well i feel like i'm drinking more and uh like i'm just coming back to the to the you know the the the place where i say to my kids, like, no, you can't have candy for breakfast. Because at first, you're just like, whatever. Just eat whatever you want.

I mean. In the first few months of his presidency, you're like, where do you want to go? Do you want to go out by yourself? Go ahead. Go ahead. You'll be all right. Go. Go.

Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go.

Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go.

Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go.

Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go.

Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. Go. be all right. Go. Do you remember where we live?

We do more comedy now on the show. Do you have funny people come on? On Fridays, like I have Kindler come on to rail and stuff. And Judy Gold sometimes comes on. And comedians come on. I've asked you. You have not responded to my texts. I didn't? No no i don't think

so i think i did i i've been busy i'm in the summer more i'll you know i'll come on friday no you're pulling the offer well i'm not it's not an open offer it was a specific friday that someone had canceled yeah that's good um yeah but it's interesting because in this space now there's like there's a lot more political podcasts than there were uh six months ago and i like that use of the word space in the space that we occupy well the podcast space the political podcast space is getting flooded it's glutted no i don't know it's glutted but it's a bunch of different ones do you have any respect for any of them? Really, the only other podcast I listen to that is about politics is Chapo Trap House. Yeah. And I think they perceive themselves as more comedy, supposedly more comedy maybe, but it's political comedy.

Yeah, right. And they're younger i mean they're you know that's the thing is like you see all this technology and uh i i think it's much harder to be younger now to be honest with you in many respects uh but i'm envious of that youtube exists and that um podcasts exist at the beginning the beginning of their careers on some level. Because, you know, if I didn't do a daily show in 2010 or 11 when I started mine, it wouldn't have worked because that's what my audience expectations were. what my audience expectations were right and uh to do like two shows a week that i actually produce and plan right right and um is something like oh i would like to do that but i don't know that my

audience is interested in that i mean i and and and and i don't know if i could get into that rhythm again you know i you know to to circle it back i think like the the idea that people are presented with a vision of what government and society should be like i mean there's a lot of i think a lot of like the data shit that you see yeah with uh younger people yeah i mean just in general yeah is a function of we have to raise our productivity because uh we're falling behind here so i have to figure out how to make every moment I have in my day function towards my maintenance of my lifestyle. Or just make sure that I can afford to get sick. Yeah.

Ugh. That's a good way to end. Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to eat? I do. What are you eating? I don't know.

Lunch? Right. But are you healthy? Are you not healthy right but like are you healthy are you not healthy you want mexican you want kind of oh bourbon we'll go find some bourbon good talking to you buddy nice talk to you that was me and old sammy as i said, you can hear Sammy on the Majority Report. You can get it at majority.fm. Okay, it's on at noon every day live, noon Eastern.

It's also available as a podcast. That was Sam Seder, the lovely Sam Seder. Bassem Yousef. It's the first time I've met the guy. There's a documentary about him called Tickling Giants. It's available on iTunes and Amazon, as well as at ticklinggiants.com. It premieres on Starz December 18th. He stopped by.

Interesting story. When a surgeon becomes a comedian. Always surprising. surgeon becomes a comedian always always surprising but his story is definitely unique this is me and bossam yusef so you're living here now. Yes. Full time. Yeah. You, like, it seems at the end of the documentary that you were in Harvard Square. I was at Harvard University.

I was actually there as an associate, what do you call it? I was teaching there for a semester. Oh, really? So that was your first stop? I mean, when you... No, so at that moment... Fleed, you fleed. I did flee, but I fleed to Dubai. Okay.

And then I stayed there for a year and three months. Within this year and three months, I went to Harvard. Okay. And I thought that I will stay in Dubai. And then I found out that to stay in the Middle East, there is no way for me to express what I want to say. Because everything was off the table politically. And I would only stay there.

I have to do mindless comedy that doesn't actually talk about issues. Or medicine. Of course. There's always the heart surgeon thing. Yeah, I always have that but then i left so i decided to uh a year and a half ago i decided to leave the middle east altogether and just come here now what kind what's your status oh i'm a green card green card yeah so it's a it's sort of interesting i i i mean to get i wasn't familiar completely

with the story i remember hearing about it you know obviously i know john stewart um personally were not great but i you know i started out with him in new york so i i know uh all that uh what the show is modeled on but i think what fascinated me outside of whatever's going on with you now which i'm curious about was it you know right at the beginning of the story you know you you kind of make a point to to tell us that um you know mubarak you know was in power most of your life absolutely 30 years now what fascinated me only because we have, you know, an attempted authoritarian government happening here, what sort of fascinated me was that you seem like a sophisticated, well-rounded person, and it seems like people living under Mubarak that there was a cultural community in Egypt.

It was fairly, you know, outside of politics, it seemed like was fairly uh there you know outside of politics it seemed like everything was functioning you know in terms of arts and things like that yeah i mean like dictators are everywhere i mean oh i know yeah you're just like it's because you guys are not used to that because you started as a republic it's new to us you you need so for example if i i It's new to us. It's new to us. So, for example, if you are a European, it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, we know how it's done. That's right.

In our history, we had, I mean, like, look under Hitler. Sure. Mussolini. Franco. I mean, industry. Yeah. Arts. Yeah. Amazing.

I mean, of course, some of the arts had to be censored. Or politically propagandized. But dictatorships are generally pretty much functioning. Not like the way that you want them functioning, but for many it is functioning. And for many you will be allowed to have arts

and you'll be allowed to have some sort of freedom of expression within the realms of what the state would consider acceptable. And for us, I mean, what should we do? Should we leave our lives and our livelihood and just go into the streets and revolt? We never thought that is possible until 2011. Right.

So, but when you were a kid and when you went into, you were a successful heart surgeon? Yes? Yep. Like you know how successful heart surgeon? Yes? Yep. Like, you know how to do that? To what? To go to the streets? No, to be a heart surgeon. Yeah, I mean, yeah.

I mean, because I'm a nerd. I am a freaking nerd. This is what we do. Yeah, I know, but you committed to, like, you went through a lot of years of medical school. Yeah. And you did now in Egypt. Because in Egypt, if you're not an engineer or a medical

doctor you don't count really for your parents oh for your parents always pressure yeah absolutely yeah and you have a you think i went to medicine because of passion fuck that well come on i mean it is important i mean you know you know saving lives is not a bad thing Saving lives is not a bad thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh! You really resent medicine. No, I don't resent medicine.

I resent the lifestyle. But as a doctor, how did it work in Egypt? Were you able to make a lot of money? Is it the same here? No, in Egypt, to make a lot of money as a doctor, especially in heart surgery, you don't really see any money until your 40s. Uh-huh. And it's a very long path, and it's not...

And the system is just horrible. The health system? The health system, the health system, how it works. It is basically a no system. Yeah. What does that mean? I mean, here in the United system, how it works, and it is basically a no system. Yeah. What does that mean? I mean, here in the United States, there is a path. Yeah.

You know that you're going to be a resident, then you're going to be an attending, then you're going to be there. And you know that, like, if you're good, you know that you'll find somewhere to host you as a doctor, and you can totally depend on your work in the hospital and that will provide for you yeah there you have to hustle yeah you have to it's all about it's more of a business more than actually a practice it is we have to hustle your private practices and you have to uh a portion of your life you'll have to be like doing in in clinic. And then you go to this hospital and go to that hospital. You have to work three, four, five hospitals at the same time in order to provide. Oh, man.

So now, okay, so you're just going along your life. You have one child at that time, it seemed. No, my child came 2012. Oh, okay. So, and you guys were just living under Mubarak, and that was just the way things were. It wasn't great, but you knew what was up. It was a very slow, painful decay, but it was okay.

What compelled the initial riots? Was it economically? Was Egypt faltering? I don't know the history. Well, the thing is, well, everybody was inspired by what happened in Tunisia. Yeah.

They revolted against Ben Ali, Ben Ali, their dictator, and fled and kind of like it made everybody hungry. Yeah. But even after that, the demonstrations in Egyptgypt didn't start as we want to get rid of mubarak it was they wanted to get rid of the minister of police

because of police brutality and when the first wave in 25th of january was oppressed by by by the police and by the bullets and by the gas, it turned automatically to, all right, we want Mubarak down. So as the regime was slow to respond, the expectations of the protesters increased. And then it became a sit-in and became like, all right, no Mubarak or bust, basically. And Mubarak had to basically and and and Mubarak was

had to step down after a team but but not with not before you know shooting people oh yeah like maybe a thousand people doc was killed in the streets yeah just gunned down by Mubarak's not less than that and that's maybe 400 I can't remember the numbers of the 18 days but like a lot of people were gunned down and in the gassing and the beating and the beating, but it was not stoppable. It's not stoppable, no. And when that happened for you as a doctor, what was your first impulse? Because you were okay.

You were set. You were working. Many of the people who actually led the demonstrations were okay they were financially very independent yeah they were more educated than others they were they had more awareness than others and uh this is why when people say why do you want to revolt you're doing okay it's like yeah but the country was not doing okay and uh and this is why change has to come from people who are aware and can provide for themselves because they go for the ideology of things, not because of the necessity of having more food. Not desperation, right. Because if that was the thing, I'll give you more food and it's done.

Problem solved. more food and it's it's done problem solved so uh as a doctor i mean i we were under mubarak everybody kind of like expect accepted it as like a matter of fact but when you see oh my god can we actually live without mubarak so we got excited yeah during the 18 days my role was just limited to being a guy who would go to the makeshift clinic in Tahrir Square and try to fix the wounds and just like stitch people up. Yeah. I was not a guy who would in the front lines throwing rocks because I have a very bad aim. Was that it? But you had a purpose and you were helping people.

Yeah. Yeah. So when Mubarak did resign, people were ecstatic. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. But they didn't really know what would happen next. There was no manual. Yeah.

There was no dynamic of what does it mean to be political so the only people who were ready were the muslim brotherhood and the muslim brotherhood were a very good pick for the military who were basically ran everything because both of them were on the conservative side. So there was as if there was some sort of an unwritten agreement between them. It's like, you know what? You do whatever you want as military. Still control yourself. You have your autonomy.

Nobody will come close to you. And we can control the people, which is pretty much like Pakistan. Uh-huh. And this is what we were worried about that we were turned into a pakistan and uh which means what specifically which means that the the military ruled the country and the islamists ruled the streets right and uh and then a a couple of years under the islamists a year in parliament and a year in presidency of morseyorsi? Of Morsi. Yeah. It just, people were fed up with the Islamists because they were just like pushing their conservative agenda more and more.

I know that when Americans hear about Islamist rule, the first thing that comes to them is Sharia law. Right. It's not like that. It is creating the atmosphere of we are, because we are Islamists, we're better than you. And because we are Islamists, we are going to crack down of the secular values that many people want. Oh, so they're righteous and they have a moral code that is Islam. Yeah. They will never come to you.

I mean, to be fair, the Muslim Brotherhood will never say, we're going to go and behead people in the streets. They're not going to say this. However. It just sort of happens. What? It just sort of starts happening. No, no.

They will never say that. But the thing is, again, it is about like what is right and what is wrong. And the fact that they would unite with the more radical people, which is the Salafis, which is pretty much the uber Muslims. And the thing, I mean, my own interpretation is that the army was happy with that.

It's like, you know what? Yeah, I mean, as if we're getting our thing. But I think what happened is that I think the army and the Muslim Brotherhood started to have their differences yeah on who to run the the country economically right and the weird thing

is that like you know i kept watching this in light of uh you know what's happening in america and and also having you know been through bush and the power of of the the sort of christian right i mean there there is a faction within this country that believes in of the sort of Christian right. I mean, there is a faction within this country that believes in the same sort of righteousness and that it must be applied to culture. But for here, they will stop short at abortion and gay rights. In Egypt or in the Arab world in general, it will be more than this. It will be the minimum age of marriage. It will be what is forbidden or not.

It will be cracking down on freedom of expression. However, to complete the story, because if you're talking about this, about the Islamists, is the military a better option? So the military took over and the military is still a very conservative institution. And the-

It's right and wrong by the gun. Right and wrong by the gun and still using religious justifications. Right, right. But it's just like, oh, our Islam is better than their Islam. Right. But during, even under Mubarak, the supposedly secular leader, and under Sisi, the supposedly secular military dictator, there are so many people who've been jailed and persecuted because they tried to spread religious reforms. There are so many people who spoke in order to reform the radical narratives and they were either being sent to exile or jailed, persecuted.

It was not the people with the beard and the religious cloth that were doing that. It was the military and the police. Because they saw that the Islamists had a structure through which to keep the people in line. No, it's simply because if I'm a military dictator and you come and start to question things in religion, oh, so today you're going to start to question religion, tomorrow you're going to question me. Right. So for them them religion is always

a first line of defense and this this if you look to the um the the the arc of military dictatorships in the arab world even the islamic world that's not new said that who was like america best friend 1980s he was the the one who actually put in sharia law not sharia sharia as the source of legislation in the egyptian constitution 1980 in order to have unlimited times of re-election it was jial haq in pakistan who turned the constitution in an islamic constitution in order to to get the the to be on the good side of the radicals in the streets in pakistan to protect him against the army and still didn't protect him it was jafer nimiri in 1988 i guess i guess who after a failed uh a long failed policies of military dictatorship couldn't find anything that works other than

turning the whole country into a sharia abiding islamic uh republic right it is always the the the the religious narrative and the religious enforcement enforcement is what dictatorship always do as uh protect themselves to protect themselves this is good information for us in america right now so it's always people think, oh, we are afraid of those religious fanatics. We're going to go to the military because they have to be secular. They're not. Saddam Hussein and Gaddafi, who are supposedly secular, they used religion big time. And they always used that to protect the regime.

So are you Muslim? Yeah. Are you religious? I prefer to keep that to myself the regime so are you muslim yeah are you religious uh i i prefer to keep that to myself out of fear of who not out of fear because i um this is something that started with me in egypt whenever people at start to ask me are you muslims like why do you ask why the fuck do you care and because i we it's a little bit sensitive back there because people want to see where are your how are you affiliated to us in order so we can speak to you it's like you should speak to me as a human being

oh the reason I asked yes is that you know there's this belief that there are no moderate Muslims in America oh I can speak to that so the idea of no moderate Muslims in America. Oh, I can speak to that. So the idea of no moderate Muslim could be easily believed because what do you see in the news? Yeah. And I will be even more forward like, well, maybe the vast majority are not. And maybe you have statistics that would support the narrative that most Muslims in the world are pretty much radicalized. And I would partly agree with this narrative. Because, but the problem with Islam is not a problem with Islamic ideology or dogmatic problem.

It is a problem of free expression and free speech. Because many of the free expression, because many of the ideas that are more forward are oppressed not by the Islamic authorities but more by governments, you do not have this kind of conversation. The conservative radical Islam is protected by the state. Yeah.

So you don't have this kind of conversation. You can't be critical. There's no talk of reform or anything. So that kind of a radicalized thought is protected. So when you look at the Muslims outside, because they in secular societies yeah you you have a totally different picture you will find people who can speak freely I mean like in Germany just like in the past three months there was a a liberal mosque that was open in Berlin and the imams are women and gays and that's in Germanyany which is like so you're saying that once

the once the the individual is removed from the oppressive islamist no no no not the oppressive islamist the oppressive political situation in general okay right so and because that will bring up because which sometimes are the same sometimes they are and sometimes they're not. But it's always the military regime is always protecting itself with the Islamic because it's like easier to say like, how come you speak against God? And other than how come you speak against me? So, when you have that, you have now an array of ideas that they can compete in a free market. Right. And they will still be rejected by the mainstream.

And this is a generational issue. Mainstream Islam? Yeah. And this is why you have right now in America and in Europe, look at the second generation, the younger Muslims. They are like totally different than their parents. Yeah. There is a big generational divide.

In terms of how they handle their religion. And to bring that to the comparison between Christianity, oh, but Christianity got reformed. I'm sorry. Christianity was never reformed. For Christianity, it's the same Bible. The same Bible, the same Old Testament same bible the same old testament new testament with all of the controversial verses of how you treat women how you beat women how you kill women if they don't obey their husbands right but the difference was that the christian societies

evolved right but the scripture stayed the same so you can have the same thing the whole thing about like islam could not be reformed is it is you don't need to reform islam you the scripture will always be there yeah it is just like how societies would choose how to deal with the scripture so when now when did you get compelled at what point in the political narrative of egypt did you feel like you had to you know speak out or did that you took the opportunity to do the show well six weeks after Mubarak step down there I had a friend of mine who was a YouTube partner and who started he wanted to start it was an ongoing conversation even a year before the revolution he

wanted to have original Arabic content for YouTube we had that time was not not non-existent. Really? Okay. Yeah. So, we started to talk about other projects, but it didn't actually go through. But when the revolution happened, kind of the opportunity delivered. It's like, why don't you do something political?

It's like, I want to do Jon Stewart, because I was a big fan of The Daily Show. And I started to do that show in my apartment once a week. In the weekend, after I come back from hospital i would do like these like youtube segments yeah so like five minutes videos i didn't expect that they will have any traction maybe 10 000 views will be a wonderful number and then for five few weeks later i had like five million and what was the tone of them was it was it just sarcasm was it was making fun of how the media brainwashed the people during the 18 days. It was like reminding people,

this is the kind of media that was playing on television while you guys were in the streets. It was sort of insane to see how crazy Egyptian television was. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Because I didn't know what they were saying, but it seemed, was it political, all the fighting? Or was it? A hundred% political.

I mean, like literally, physical confrontations, and you guys. People throwing chairs. And apparently it's okay to say fuck a lot on television.

Yeah, it's never okay. It's always beat. But the thing is, but what the documentary didn't show is the kind of material that I used.

Because the kind of material that I used might not be, translate easily to English. It was, whatever it takes for the media to convince people that this was a conspiracy for the media in Egypt this was not a revolution it was a conspiracy that was carried by the CIA the Mossad Iran Hezbollah and Hamas all together the protests yeah all of this they were like

all of these people are paid operatives. Sure, they try that here too. So there's a playbook for this shit. They say the playbook of dictatorship is very slim. It is the same thing. It's fear-mongering. If you want to

summarize the playbook of dictatorships and authoritarians everywhere, whether religious or military or stupid ass motherfuckers, orange heads. It all comes down to one thing, fear from the other. I'll create an enemy. I'll make you afraid of it. I'm going to make you afraid shitless of that enemy. And I'm going to push legislation and policies based on that fear,

and you're going to accept it. Yeah. And eventually, through repetition, people start to believe it because they're scared. Absolutely. They're scared of other things. Absolutely. I mean-

They should be scared of the person pushing that, but they can't practice it. No, no, no. I mean, so I was in Politicon just a few days ago, and I was in a room where a lot of like red caps were just like emerging of make america great again yeah and people's like oh islam hello you're all coming into it guys let me just like you know yeah all right guys by the way we're on the same side you don't you like all of these images that you see in the media i mean those people if they see me

they kill me too but like you are just are just like, what really bugs me, it's like, guys, you are here in America where you idealize individuality. Everybody's an individual. It's like the individual, you guys worship the individual, how everybody is different and how everybody should be treated different

because of his own merits but you come to us and you group us we are just like the exception of the rule where everything that's happening back there and and and i don't even like like to say well we are 1.7 million 1.7 billion people and if we want to kill you we're only going to be killed and the vast majority of muslims are peace loving you know what 99 of muslims want to kill you but you should actually like deal us as if you're dealing with the one percent because like i'm i'm i really don't have to respond or have held accountable to whoever is is doing that shit so when you have like refugee problems you're already having one of the most toughest vetting processes

in the world. Right, yeah. But the other side want to tell you that the system is broken. The system is not fucking broken. No, they just don't want any more Muslims here.

The brown people in general are not there. Yeah, I mean, whether it's Muslims or Mexicans or whatever. And I tell them, like, guys, discrimination does not discriminate

because, all right, so let's say we're just like all pieces of shit Muslims. All of those Muslims are clear and present in danger. What about those three Indians that were killed in the middle of America? Yeah. They were Indian Sikhs. They're not Middle Easterners.

They're not Muslims. They're just brown. What about this? Do you have these conversations with these guys? Oh, yeah, absolutely. What about, like, the Lebanese Christian guy who were killed in the Porsche of his house because the guy's like, go back to your country. He's Lebanese, he's Christian.

So, I mean. How do they respond? They, I mean, they don't respond. Because they have nothing to say. They just, oh, but Islam wants to kill us. It's just like the same broken record. Sure. I mean, as a matter of fact, the first victim of hate crimes after 9-11.

Was it a Sikh, right? No no it was an egyptian christian cop cop a cop is like an orthodox christian yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah uh and and he was having a convenience store and he was shot in his in in his store so it it doesn't stop that because like spoiler alert alert, we pretty much look the same. Yeah. And when you, okay, so you're doing the YouTube videos in your house or your partner's house. What was his name? Tariq? Tariq. It was in my house.

Yeah. It was your house. And you start to see the popularity. You start to see that at least a good portion or a lot of people are responding and they they see what you're talking about so how does it move from there uh well at that time i was waiting to go to cleveland because i was having uh i was actually applied and i was accepted in a pediatric heart surgery fellowship and uh i was waiting for the h1 visas which will be something that we don't have anymore soon and and then the the I said was it the Mayo Clinic no no no it was so that it's the the

Children's Hospital in in in in Cleveland uh-huh Rainbow Children Hospital very very prestigious Children's Hospital there and when I was waiting for the H1 visa, for the papers to come, and I was waiting for that, I was just doing the show, and then I started to have offers from networks in Egypt. And then the same day I was signing the contract

for an Egyptian network there, the visa papers arrived. And I just, it was a choice was that tough conversation with your wife my wife is the most supportive woman it was a tough conversation with my mom oh yeah but as a matter of fact it was not as tough as I imagined it would be because as any other middle-o-meets like, oh, you know, better have my friends closer, my enemy closer.

That means that she needs her sons closer to her. So she said, fine, let's give it a try. And for her just to be around her in the same country is better for her. Yeah. So I said like, all right, let's postpone this medicine thing for a year. And let's take a shot. It's so funny.

As a comic, I've known plenty of lawyers that have gone into comedy. I don't think I've known many doctors. I know. It's a rare, and I guess you feel like you did the right thing. You're still doing it. So I get it. But okay, so it's a big risk on a lot of levels and you take this gig now there's no real precedent for a political comedy show or in egypt but you

seem to from the documentary it seems like you amassed a bunch of very energetic focused and and funny people to to do this thing how did you find them um it was tough because first we started i started to hire people who were already in the business and what was that business like there there were comedy shows in egypt what were they were but like very broad we just like very boring yeah and i started to hire the best in the business and I fired them after eight weeks. Because they didn't have the guts or they just couldn't do it?

Because the business as usual in Egypt, the idea of hiring someone to write full-time for a show, unheard of. Most of the late night shows there were just conversational talk show, very boring, where like a journalist who would just work part time or work full time in a newspaper and come at the end of the night as a part time to work in the talk show. Okay.

I demanded absolute dedication to the show. And you're using The Daily Show as your template, as your inspiration, as the way it's supposed to be done. Exactly. And people didn't understand that. Why? You show them The Daily Show and they didn't get it?

They got it, but it's like it's not going to be done in Egypt. Everybody, just like everybody was putting me down. It's just too Americanized. Dude, whatever happens in America can all be replicated in Egypt. But, just like everybody was putting me down. It's just too Americanized. Dude, whatever happens in America cannot be replicated in Egypt.

But was it about the content? Was it about fear of the government? Or was it just about... No, no, no, no, no. It was... Wouldn't be funny. No, it's two things.

So on the level of the staff, Yeah. nobody will just work full time for a show. And for the level of the networks, it's like, nobody will watch this. Yeah. But they hired you. Yeah, they did.

But when I started to demand bigger amount of money to do the daily show, the live show, people said like, oh, this is too much money. No, the size of TV advertisement in Egypt cannot support this thing. Oh, you mean when he brought the audience. Yeah, and I was like, you're having all of this money for a weekly show. Nobody will come. Nobody will watch it.

And then I said, if you create content, you will create market. Yeah. And nobody believed it. So you do the first season at which network? On TV, which is the small TV network. And it was called The Show. Yes. it yeah and nobody believed it so you do the first season at which network on TV which is the small TV network and it's called the show yes and I continued with the second season with the live show and which was like that was something that's

really disturbed disrupted the scene there but when you get okay so you're on TV you you're in the the the this is when it's before, is it after Morsi or? No, I started before Morsi. Right. So it was that weird area where no one knew what was going to happen. Exactly. Just the military. Yes.

And you get on. But it was the military, but with the obvious rise of the Islamic movement in the parliament. Right. So you get on TV and it's an immediate success? Yes. It was an immediate, it was a first slow success because it was a small network and the budget was small. Right.

And that was the first season. How many networks are there? Oh, I can't, maybe eight or nine. Okay. And no, there were many, but the ones that were watched were eight and nine. Yeah. And then I started to do the second season, which I started to want to look for financing

and people would just think, that's too much money. You want to rent a theater? Yeah. Seriously? You want to get like real audience? Yeah. Nobody can be behind that.

We actually got like a totally like, a piece of shit piece of like theater that was like abandoned for 15 years and we spent so much money renovating it and doing so that's so much money why are you doing that and this is the second season that was second season yes so after the first season now you're a huge celebrity yeah in Egypt. Everybody knows who you are. No one's ever done what you've done before. But are you nervous yet?

Oh, I'm very nervous all the time. About what could happen to you? Yes. Because you knew that maybe I'm borrowed time. Yes, exactly. I was excited. When will this run end? Yeah. But when did, like, okay, so you do the first season When will this run end? Yeah.

But when did, like, okay, so you do the first season successfully. You renovate the theater. You go into the second season. You've got a live audience now. And at what point is Marcy elected? Marcy is elected before my second season launches. So now you've got a whole new set of issues. Yes.

Before you were kind of, you were talking about the media, you were talking about the military and the Muslim Brotherhood and Broadway, but now you've got a guy. I've got a president. Yeah. So now the stakes are higher.

The stakes are much higher. And now it is now a show and the size of audience is increasing and I ended up after the 10th week having 30 to 40 million people watching the show. So that's not just Egypt? No, that's Egypt. That's all just Egypt?

Yeah, and outside there were even more. That's what I mean. Oh, really? Yeah. So the Arab world. The Arab world was watching. Everybody in the airport and i imagine they're they're entertained their their minds are blown but some of them are like he's gonna get killed this guy yeah we put people which is like oh my god i mean we never had something like this it's with the the we made

something we took something that was unheard of and made it mainstream and you really did what john does in the sense that you really were taking shots at Morsi day in, every week. But not just Morsi. Morsi was just a representative. I took shots of the whole Islamic regime and their media, mostly their media. Because for me, I'm always like,

all right, Morsi is Morsi. And the Islamic regime is Islamic regime. But what about their mouthpieces? What about their Breitbarts? Yeah. What about their Fox News? Yeah. What about their...

And were they state-owned there, those networks? The religious? No, like the network, the media that you're talking about. No, they're privately owned. Okay. Yeah. But you find out that, but like later, all of them are, is now acquired by the state with shell companies.

Oh, that's the way it is now? Or was it always that way? It's the way it is now. Okay. So now this is where you, you know, things start to get hotter. Now, you know, now you've got an enemy who is the president. Yeah. hotter now you know now you've got an enemy who is the president yeah and now i during the first year at what point did you start you know actively fearing for your life and in the sense of being

disappeared or imprisoned or or or i never had this fear because i noticed that when in the documentary when it shows you reacting to criticism and the anger in the streets that you seem to be kind of detached from it. I didn't know if that was real or not. It was actually quite real. And what is good about Sarah and how she captured this, because Sarah Taxler, the director of the movie,

is that I watched this movie for the first time ever on the premiere of the movie in tribeca film festival last year i never saw any documentary what is it what's the full name of the documentary tickling giants yeah tickling giants and i was i didn't have any expectations i just watched there i will watch it as any other part of the audience and i and and when i saw the footage of me, as you said, pretty much detached, I said, my God, this is what I really felt. I didn't really care about what will happen to me. Because if you die, you die.

If you're killed, you're killed, right? Is that something you always felt or is that something you learned from being a heart surgeon? No, it is because in the media you're very exposed. Everything that no it is in the me because in the media are very exposed everything that you say is out there yeah i was more concerned i was more terrified about giving a bad show and when i imagine for your staff to some degree yeah my yeah i mean just like for us it's like we just like, because we were just like raising the bar higher and higher and higher. And you cannot drop from that. So when did the state start coming down on you?

At what point? Well, there were many points. There were, during the Muslim Brotherhood, when I was, there was a warrant for my arrest. Before Morsi? No, within Morsi. Like, actually, towards the end of his presidency. The second season.

Yeah. And when I went to the general prosecutor and I had a six hours interrogation. And it was funny because I felt that as if they were like asking why is this funny which is the worst thing they can tell for a comedian sure and and then there was like the tension was rising but in the streets but the way they would hold bits up they would show you yeah exactly and it was it's like Lenny Bruce and when they were reading his bits exactly yeah and they that was it exactly but they'd show they had a tv in

the courtroom no no it's not a court so it was the the office in his office and this is a funny story because they had the stuff on cds yeah and they tried to play the cds on a very outdated 1995 windows computer uh-huh and uh and they couldn't work the cds and i said like guys uh can let me help you yeah and then it didn't work and all right we're just gonna read the transcript yeah so that and how did you answer those questions why is this funny i mean they were no the question was basically what did you mean by this oh i said said, well, I meant it exactly like this. And because of my satire, it was basically double meaning. So if you read it out, it's like, oh, it's so innocent.

And I said, well, if that's the case, why are people laughing? And I said, I don't know. Why don't you ask them? So it's basic sarcasm. So you say it in a tone yeah so they hadn't watched the show no they didn't

well the thing is the general prosecutor was doing his job yeah but in the room there were other lawyers from the general prosecutor office and all of them

were fans of the show and they were laughing their asses off during the investigation and it was like surreal like having actually to go there as

someone who is under arrest. Yeah. And having all of these police officers and lawyers having pictures with me. It was really insane. That's funny. Because then you really see that the streets are with you. Yeah. Yeah.

So you got off on that one. Yeah, I got off on that one yeah i got off on the bay on bail but the pressure from the islamic government continued and usan always started to have warnings if you make fun of the president we're going to close down the show but then fast forward a few weeks after we had the 30th of june of june where the military took over after morsorsi? Yeah, basically they removed Morsi. And then the Islamists were on the weaker side now, and they got killed in the streets. And they were, in one day,

800 people got killed by the military. Islamists? Yes. And it was a big massacre. And now I have a new power, a new power which is the military. And I was popular. I was the national hero who took down the Muslim Brotherhood,

the one who made fun of the president of the Islamists. So now a lot of people are dead, and they haven't shut you down yet, and you've got a new foil. Yeah, and I did one episode, and that was enough to shut me down by the military. So you're off the air? I'm off the air after one episode under the military rule. And it was funny because all of those people who were cheering me up,

oh, yeah, they're coming, you shouldn't make fun of the military. The people who were applauding me for making fun of the Islamists couldn't get a single word of criticism or joke against the military, including people from my own family that was an egyptian network who shut me down after one episode yeah and then i stayed unemployed for four months and then i went to a regional network saudi-owned uh-huh and i told them no but i mean i know that you're saudi-owned but like i will not uh have anybody interfering in my content and they had an Egyptian channel where I worked in that Egyptian channel and uh I continued for that season for 11 weeks and I was shut down again indefinitely after the move

to the Saudi network with the Egyptian channel. Yes. And that was the end? That was the end. So, okay, so I'm just trying to, you know, connect it to what I saw in the documentary. So now you go back on the air after your shutdown with the new regional network. You've held your line on being able to say what you want to say. There was that episode where they scrambled your signal. Two episodes. And that was, you know,

after you signed with the Saudi. That is on the regional end, yes. So, and it's pretty clear that that was done intentionally by the military. And then you're, so now you're dealing with protesters out front, right?

Yeah, people coming and they're all stage protests. They are like stuff that are pushed by the military intelligence it's like very it's a very old technique that they always use it's just like fake protests that go in so to show that the people are against what i'm saying of course there are a lot of people who kind of hated me for what i'm saying now but they wouldn't just like go in and burn i was surprised how many older women yelling and screaming and throwing the finger. They're all paid by the government. All of them are paid.

And we had footage of them appearing in similar protests to kind of like push a certain agenda or narrative. Oh, so they've got a whole crew. They are like professionals. Yeah, they're angry extras. Yeah, exactly. They're angry extras. Exactly.

I think the military could be the best casting agencies out there. What was profound to me is that, you know, despite the propaganda and, you know, these paid extras, it did seem like a lot of people, I don't know if it was out of fear or just the lack of stability or whether it was because it was Egypt, that there seemed to be a lot of people that wanted to be under authoritarian. Well, you cannot really look at Egypt in a vacuum. I mean, so here's the media narrative. If we don't do this, look to what happened to Iraq, Syria, and Libya. Look to the countries around us. We are the last standing Arab army. They are coming for us. Look at what's happening in Syria.

Look to ISIS. Yeah. Look to Libya. Do you want your country ruled by militias? Democracy means chaos. Right. So they already have pretty much a good point. I mean, look to the other countries around us.

This is how the Arab Spring are spoiling the people around us. I know, but those were all dictatorships. I know. So they're still vulnerable, even if they say, look what happened. It doesn't matter. Right. It doesn't matter. To the people that are scared, they'll be like that.

It doesn't matter. I mean, are you talking logic now? You're right. I mean, are you trying to be logical? Yeah. It doesn't work right it doesn't matter to the people that are scared they'll be like it doesn't matter i mean are you talking logic now you're right i mean are you trying to be logical yeah it doesn't work yeah i mean under fear logic let alone satire is not accepted right so so your fight to continue to say what you wanted to say and do it the way you wanted to do it which was not the funny thing is it wasn't angry it wasn't't violent, it was satire. And it was, you know, I think that in some ways it's harder for them to deal with that because they actually don't always know why people are laughing.

Yeah, I mean, because here's the thing. Laughter is the greatest threat to them because these authoritarian regimes build their legitimacy on two major things respect and fear right and I'll see and this is why someone like Donald Trump doesn't like to be laughed at I know I know there's a lot of reasons but yeah because if you laugh at him you're undermining his authority his respect but he was always a clown before he was like you know he it doesn't matter but Because if you laugh at him, you're undermining his authority, his respect.

But he was always a clown before. He was like, you know, he. It doesn't matter. But even when he was a clown, he was the clown in control. Right. And he's the guy who was firing people on his show. Right. So you cannot really make fun of me. I'm the president.

He doesn't have the idea or the concept of what does it mean to be a public servant. Sure. And this is why that was very apparent. He was the only president to break in tradition to say, all right, I'm not going to come to the correspondence dinner. Good luck. Have fun. Yeah. No, I know.

Believe me. I feel it every day. It's driving me nuts. driving me nuts but they when when someone like cc comes in we didn't really talk about because he he was during your last season that was when he came to power correct yeah and you know the it was interesting that the the theatrics of him that like it's almost it's almost uh a farce that you know the sunglasses the whole the whole business you know when you look at it's like people really believe that that means something yeah this is uh this is what powers mean to them yeah so did you feel at that time that your life was in danger

i i think the whole time i was in denial post-traumatic stress or denial? I was in denial to actually believe that my life would be in danger. Yeah. Because I couldn't function. If you felt that. If I couldn't function, I couldn't write jokes, I couldn't be on the show. I mean. Because, I mean, despite, you know, your chipper disposition and the detachment, I mean, I found it kind of, you know, impressive and, you know, it seemed very courageous that, you know, you continue to do a show at all. Yes.

I mean, it was funny. We were doing the show and we were betting which show will be the last one. Uh-huh. We were being in a nihilistic state of mind. But when they put your partner, your producer's father in prison for no reason, did you see that as a signal to you? Oh, yeah, absolutely a signal. And I thought that, like, if I continue doing a good show, having a high rating, that would somehow protect me. Protect you.

And what about your family? Were there threats? No, but they were always worried. Yeah. I mean, okay, you really have to define what threats mean. Are you talking about online threats? No. Are you talking about Twitter or whatever?

Because I have that all the time. No, of course. No, I'm talking about being visited by the military. No. I was visited in the theater. I had a friendly visit by someone from the intelligence. No. I was visited by, in the theater, by a friend. I had a friendly visit by someone from the intelligence.

Oh, yeah. Offering his help. Uh-huh. And that was kind of like, ah, we're watching you. Yeah. Hi, how are you? Yeah.

Yeah. So now, when the show goes down, when you're done, and now, was there public outcry? Or were they not able to do that, really? Not able.

It's basically on the internet. Okay, so. As a matter of fact, many of them were angry at me. You pussy, come back and fight. Seriously, what are you going to do for me? You're just like there on Twitter and Facebook, you're not doing anything. Yeah, you did. There was some pushback in the sense that, you know, once you were off the air, what were you supposed to do?

Hit the streets? I mean, like, what were you supposed to do, hit the streets? I mean, like, what did they expect from you? You had no control over the outlet. I mean, it's just like as if you're saying, like, oh, as if you are coming back to the age of Hitler and Mussolini. It's like, why did you stop making fun of the Fuhrer or why of Mussolini? Go back. Go back, make fun of Il Duce. It's like, what are you going to do if something happened to me?

I'm just going to write angry tweets. Supporting you. That was bound to happen. I mean, it's just like... But you did not want to stay engaged with any sort of resistance. I mean, there was other ways, I imagine. Or you're telling me there's no resistance at all. I mean, the resistance are...

I have to be very realistic here and say the resistance is crushed. And at the end of the day, you have a critical mass. But the critical mass of people, if they're not supported by the people, they will be squashed. And the thing is, if you just have the same 10, 12 people moving masses and they're getting crushed, and the people just don't move a finger and they're just like behind their computer screens. So basically, fuck them.

I'll be very honest. I mean, the fact is that you just can't, and I mean, I never posed my, I never posed or never like presented myself as a political activist. But like, you try to resist with the tools that you have, which is political satire. Yeah.

And if you end up being crushed every time and people just sitting there asking you to do more. And when you go into the street, when you get imprisoned, you just like they have like a whole kind of hashtag supporting you. Fuck that. There are so many people that I know who have their family destroyed, they are in prison, and the hashtag didn't do anything to them. And of course people, so why don't you continue doing it from YouTube,

from outside? So while I was doing it from a TV show, from inside, what happened? Did it change anything? Nothing. You just want someone to be your catharsis your outlet to just like laugh your ass off hoping that this will change the regime it will not right you got to get into the streets i mean i can't ask them to do that right because it's too dangerous to them too

i mean i don't have a solution i don't have an answer. I'm just a guy. I'm just a guy who does joke. I am not a fucking Nilsson Vandella. Right, I understand. So you saw the lawsuit, you know, as that was how they were gonna punish you. Yeah, because the lawsuit is just like a way, an indirect way to put you down without...

And that was your second network suing you for content they couldn't... No, no, that's the network that shut me down after one episode. That's my second season. But not the regional network, not the Saudi- No, the Egyptian one. And what was the lawsuit specifically? Oh, my God. They shut me down

and then we went to arbitration and there's no way that I would lose the arbitration because they want to shut me down and yet the arbitration

find a way to hold me responsible and I found myself like owning them a hundred million pounds which is like at that time $50 million.

$50 million? $15. Oh, $15 million for It's still a lot. Oh yeah, it's a lot. For a season

that you couldn't do. Yeah, yeah, because I left them and I a season that you couldn't do. Yeah. Yeah. Because I left them and I went to another episode. I was just like, where are you now? Because I had to go to another episode, another network, I had to get out of that contract. Right. So I made all of the legal steps.

I thought we were right. And then they just like, I was screwed. Okay. So it comes down. So that's in court. And then you're told that you lose, and you're on the hook for $15 million. Yes.

And you just leave? I escaped, yeah. The verdict was at 12 noon, and I escaped at 5. Were you prepared for that? No. I just took two suitcases and headed to the airport. Really? In your mind, you're like, well, if this comes down this way, I'm going to go?

You decided that day? Yeah. I didn't decide that day. I mean, the lawyer said, like, you have to leave fucking now. Because this is a way they're going to use to either put you on a no-fly list, so you better go out before that door is shut, or it's a way for them to put you in prison. And you took your family?

No, I traveled alone and then they followed after a few weeks. They didn't hold them? No. So they kind of wanted you out? Maybe. Or they would have made it hard for your family, I would have thought. Maybe. I don't know.

I don't know how these regimes work. We need to talk to the guy who was giving the orders. Oh, yeah. They're't know how these regimes work. We need to talk to the guy who was giving the orders. Oh, yeah. They're always very forthcoming. Yeah. So you come here. You do the thing at Harvard. You're in Dubai.

You think you're going to stay in Dubai, but you still want to do comedy. Yeah. And then you do the- But the only comedy that's offered to me is social comedy, like late night, stupid stuff. Right. And I couldn't do that. I was offered a shitload of money to do it. And then I just like, I couldn't. And I left.

And so now you end up here in Los Angeles, the home of show business with your wife and now two children. Do you have two children? Yeah. One of them is five and one of them is five years and the other one is five days. Oh, you must be tired. Yes. And what have you been doing in the States? I mean, what do you just kick it around i i have my own one-man show that i take

it around and i uh it's kind of uh chronicles the the egyptian revolution through the eyes of the media uh it's a fun show and where do you do that generally uh it depends so i do to university campuses i performing arts theaters oh yeah yeah you're doing okay with that oh yeah i'm doing okay and i wrote the book and did book and then we had the... Is the book out? The book is out since March. It's called Revolution for Dummies. And so I'm doing that, which is putting food on the table, which is great.

But like in the meantime, I'm doing what every Hollywood resident is doing, waiting for the big break. So we're working on projects, writing scripts, pitching ideas, attending meetings, which is like, you know, Hollywood is a life of rejection until something big happens. But you were a national hero. I know, and I could actually stay and use that for my, I could have actually stayed and do a shitload of money there,

but I chose to come here and start from zero. So that's the odd thing. Did that play into it that if you would have stayed and you would have had a television show, whether it was out of Dubai or on a regional network that went into Egypt and you were neutered, you could no longer do political satire, that's almost like a different type of prison.

Yeah. I would still earn a different type of prison yeah i would still like earn shitload of money but people who who thought that you know the ones that said you pussy you know why are you leaving then if you were on tv doing nothing they that would have been like almost like watching a brainwashed person absolutely as you said neutered as you as you said, but it's not, it just, and I don't do that out of like patriotic beliefs or anything. It's just like, this is not how satire works. Right.

It's going to be something different. It is like having, it is something also I couldn't do. Yeah. It is like having LeBron James, all right, why don't you play football? It's like, I don't, I can't. Right.

That's not my thing. Now, when you perform here, why don't you play football? It's like, I don't, I can't. Right. That's not my thing. Now, when you perform here, do you get a good reaction? Yeah. I mean, they're very successful, almost sold out theaters,

mixed audience of Arab and non-Arabs, which is great. And do you have, what's your experience with American Egyptians in terms of, you know?

Well, most of the people I met here are wonderful people. Yeah. And very, very good people. And I'm blessed to have met amazing friends here in Los Angeles. Are there any Egyptian Americans that are pro-Sisi? There are many. Yeah. There are many.

And there are many Egyptian Americans who are pro-ian americans who are pro muslim brotherhood and hopefully i will stay away from both of these circles do they heckle you no but i was heckled uh twice in london and in new york and it was uh these were people who were paid by the egyptian consulate to come and actually heckle me. And this is like, there is a, and I know that sounds a little bit made up, but there was an article in the New Yorker. It's called Hackling the John Stewart of Egypt. And I would like you to look it up.

And there was like a reporter who followed me in one of my shows in New York. And he saw it firsthand. How do you know they were shills? So I got a tip. and he saw it firsthand. How do you know they were shills? So I got a tip from... Or stooges, I guess is the right word, not shills. Exactly, stooges, yeah. And I got a tip from some of my fans

and they sent me screenshots of the Facebook conversation that was happening that how they received orders to come and actually come and heckle me. And how did they interrupt? What did they say? Every time I mentioned Sisi, they would boo me or heckle me and whatever. And at a certain point started to...

Men or women? Both. Older men and women. And at a certain point, they started to sing the Egyptian anthem. started to sing the Egyptian anthem. And the whole point of doing that was to take a clip of me losing my cool or take a kind of a 30 seconds video by their phone for people heckling me. And then they send it to the Egyptian state media and they played it. And it was played the next day.

It was played in Egyptian there as a proof that how I am rejected by the patriotic Egyptians abroad did you lose your cool I actually made fun of them oh yeah you didn't see me I don't seem like a guy who loses his cool sometimes I do I mean one of them like in London like a woman and and they had this on camera. And as a matter of fact, it actually turned against them. Yeah. So it's like, so a woman's going, you're a faggot. She just like shouted at me. So I stopped the show.

It's like, excuse me, did you just call me a faggot? And it's like, yes, I did. It's like, oh, that's so lovely of you. You actually paid 50 sterlings to call me a faggot? It's like, yes. It's like, that is the most expensive faggot word I've ever heard of. And people just like laughed. And it was like something that backfired at them.

Well, she copped to being paid. She admitted it. Yeah. All right. So you're out doing the thing that we all do here, trying to get a show on the air, coming up with ideas. Yeah. What about, but it never occurred to you to go back to medicine?

No. That's amazing. It's behind me now. It's just like when, at the age of 43, if you want to go back, you have to just go back where you left off. So you have to go back seven years in time and do stuff that I stopped doing when I was 30. So much. You mean if you wanted to just go back where you left off. So you have to go back seven years in time and do stuff that I stopped doing when I was 30. So much.

You mean if you wanted to practice here? Yeah, it's just like I have to start from all over again. It's just like I can't. I'm too old for this shit. Really? Yeah, I'm still too old for the thing I do now in entertainment. So I go to acting classes, writing classes, improv classes, and I'm always the oldest guy in the room.

But at least it's much more fun but does it does your ego miss national hero status no no no you can't you can't let your ego stand in the way of this because if you because if you let your ego stand in the way you will it will hinder you from learning and i'm here learning everything from the beginning now it would seem to me that there would be a place for you on american television with your experience of authoritarian you think yeah i don't know talk to those studio executives those assholes they need to hire me but even as a correspondent the daily show never reached out well i mean daily show there it's already stacked and i i want to do like i want to have my own voice what is some of the uh what do you kind what kind of uh what's the angle well i mean

maybe bringing international um uh perspective to what's happening not just in america but in the world a lot of even when people talk in america we'll talk about what's happening the world you talk about it from an american point. American point of view, yeah. Maybe they need an international perspective to talk about international issues to American people. In a comedic way. Yeah. I think that's a good idea. Yeah.

And that's the idea that I'm pitching. There's a huge international community as well. Exactly. Yeah. And have you had any bites, any interest? Well, we are sitting in rooms having wonderful meetings. Yeah. And it's summer, so half of the executives are on vacation. So this is Hollywood.

This is television. And you just have to play the game. You miss Egypt? The Egypt I miss is not there anymore. Do you find good restaurant here? Oh, absolutely. I'm vegan, so this is heaven for me. Oh, yeah?

Yeah. Are there good Egyptian restaurants here? A couple. Yeah? Yeah. Like what? I mean, the thing is, I'm not looking at Egyptian food as much as vegan food. No, I get it.

I get it. But good hummus is good hummus. Why are you guys so focused on hummus? You can get hummus from Whole Foods. No, I know, but like, you know, like, I don't know. I don't, like, I'm trying to think if I know any really good Middle Eastern food restaurants. Mostly we go to Lebanese. Lebanese cuisine is the best.

Yeah? Okay. All right. I'll keep it in mind. I'll keep it in mind. Yes. Congratulations on the new child. Thank you so much.

It was good talking to you. Yeah. His name is Adam, which is a TSA-friendly name. Yeah. There you go. Working the bits. Yes. Thanks, pal.

Thank you. All right, that was me and Basim Youssef. Check out the documentary, Tickling Giants. And remember, LA people, Sunday, October 29th at 7 p.m., come see me and Brendan do our thing and sign your books at the Ann and Jerry Moss Theater in Santa Monica. Go to livetalksla.org to get tickets or go to the tour page of wtfpod.com.

Fuck it. I'll play some guitar. Boomer lives! Boomer lives. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com.

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