WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 860 - John Hammond / Michael Rapaport

Episode Date: November 1, 2017

John Hammond was kid from New York with a dad in the music industry, so it's no surprise he became a recording artist. But it was a bit unexpected that he became obsessed with the Blues at an early age. As one of the premiere Blues artists of the past six decades, John tells Marc about the connections he's made along the way, from Howlin' Wolf to Bob Dylan to The Band to Cheech and Chong. Plus, the always excitable Michael Rapaport returns to the garage to talk about his new book, This Book Has Balls. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing with cannabis legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category.

legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! store and a cast creative all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck nuts what's happening i'm mark baron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it hope you're doing all right i uh it's very early the

shooting schedule's got me a little turned upside down and i got some other things happening in my life that are consuming and overwhelming and taking up a lot of my time right off the top here i do want to thank everyone who's been reading Waiting for the Punch, Words to Live By from the WTF podcast. We're really thrilled with the response. The book is selling well. It's sweet. And we'll be doing our final Waiting for the Punch event of the year in Seattle one week from Saturday.

Brendan and I will be at Third Place Books in Seward Park, November 11th at 7 p.m. Tickets are available at the store with the purchase of Waiting for the Punch. And if you can't make it and you still want a signed book, you can get one

by going to podswag.com slash punch. It's the only site that has official signed copies. That's p-o-d-s-w-a-g

dot com slash punch. Wow, man. I forgot about this. I forgot about 5 in the morning, man. It's like, it's not, it's five in the morning. When I was doing morning radio at five in the morning was not an unusual place to be, but I judging by right now, I woke up this morning, realizing I had to record this, you know, for this show, because I got to go to set and do shoot all day.

And it's just I got to bring my car in. It's early. It is early. I want to read an email. Hey, Mark, I'm a faithful listener for years and a huge fan of all your work. I'll try to make this short and sweet. I don't want to debate religion, but you've said something twice now in your opening of the podcast that I need to share my opinion on. Most recently, you said it in the Tracy Ullman episode. You said, quote,

the evangelicals have made a deal with Satan to pursue their agenda, and Trump is fulfilling that agenda. I'm a Christ follower who has mostly attended non-denominational church as an adult. I do not consider myself evangelical, although I researched what it means to be evangelical, and it's not that far off from my beliefs. I guess I want to make sure you know that just because someone is a believer in the good news, it does not mean that all Christians stand behind Trump or his fellow criminals. I voted for Bernie in the primaries and Hillary in the actual election, so please don't assume that all Christians back Trump.

I know you've been raised Jewish, and sometimes you lump all Jewish people into one category and catch flack from fellow Jewish listeners. All I'm doing is reminding you that not all Christians should be lumped into the same category, especially not one so offensive as to state that I want to spend time in the afterlife right now, so I choose Trump to bring forth what is stated in Revelations. That's it. Thanks for being my drive-to-work companion each day. Oh, and if you get the opportunity,

you should interview Issa Rae from the HBO show Insecure. She's brilliant and hilarious. Best regards, Nora. We had Issa scheduled, and I'm trying to make that happen. I'll answer that right away. And you're right. I appreciate your email. But could you get your Christians together to stop the other ones?

If there's going to be a war, I wouldn't mind it being between y'all. You dig? Because you know what I'm saying. Shit is real. So 5 in the morning. Yeah, morning radio. Reminds me is real. So, 5 in the morning. Yeah, morning radio. Reminds me of getting up 2.30 in the morning, get up to get to the studio about 3, 3.30,

get jacked up on Dunkin' Donuts coffee and M&M's to get on the air at 6. Yeah, we overworked. We had to do a lot of detailed and significant research every morning to get on the air for Morning Sedition back in the Air America days. But I don't know how I did it. I don't know how I'm doing this. I guess I'm just a worker. I don't know what to tell you.

Did I tell you who's on the show? I do have a sort of a, I don't know if it's a hero, but a guy I love a lot. Two guys, actually, it turns out. But John Hammond is on, actually, it turns out. But John Hammond is on the show, the blues musician. And I was just excited to meet him and to talk to him because I don't know where I got one of his records years ago, but I couldn't believe it. And he's done like 30 records, and he's always out there touring.

It's just him and a couple of guitars. records and he's always out there touring it's just him and his a couple of guitars he's beyond he's beyond great and he's a very authentic blues musician and he does something with the music that that no one really does and uh it was an honor to talk to him so he'll be here soon i'll tell you a little story before i uh i start that interview and uh coming up first before john michael rapaport uh wanted to come by to talk and which is a you know i when you have michael rapaport over he's got a new book out it's uh it's called this book has balls sports rants from the mvp of talking trash you can get that where all books are available but those of you who are are familiar with Michael Rapaport know that a conversation with him is sort of like an amusement park ride. You kind of get on.

You don't know what's going to happen. And you just hold on and engage where you can. I always like having him over. So this is me having a little short but intense conversation with Michael Rapp. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that.

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That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need. And policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy policy is renewing soon go to zensurance and fill out a quote zensurance mind your business support what the fuck's going on with you are you all right didn't you start some shit recently no what shit i don't know did you uh with trump did you start some shit recently? No, what shit? I don't know. With Trump, did you start some shit? Oh, start some shit.

With Trump, you're finishing shit. You're cleaning up shit. I didn't start any shit. He's like... Did you know him in New York? Did you ever deal with him? No, I never dealt with Trump. I've seen him around a couple of parties and things like that.

But, you know, I mean, the thing about Trump in New York is, like, we know what the fuck he's all about. We've seen him out and about chasing skirt and... Forever. Forever. In New York. He's a... You know, we've seen him on the corner before they, you know,

they fixed up Times... Times Square Street. He's a fucking three-card money player. That's what he is. If you listen to him talk, like his Alabama talk last week, that was classic three-card Monty, shuck and jive, fucking bait and switch shit.

That's what he does. He's brilliant in the same way that, you know, and not in a good way. The bad kind of brilliant. You know, and I have to admit, I do see parts of myself in him yeah that's the difficult thing right if you're a little narcissistic if

you're a little bit of a charming asshole yes you can sort of like i get what he's doing i get what he's doing but but but i'm not the president nor nor would nor would i i want to be not yet not yet not yet anything's yet. Anything's fucking. Now anything's possible. If this motherfucker could be president, anybody literally can be president. He's lowered the bar on what's acceptable. Oh, yeah. In everything.

All across the board. So you got to help me out because I got the book. This book has balls. I see it clearly is a sporting theme. Yes. The theme of sports. Yes. Now, I am a non-sports Jew.

Yes. There's many non-sports Jews. Did we talk about this before? We didn't. No. But you're like a full-on sports Jew. I'm a sports Jew. I love sports.

Yeah. I love sports. What is it, though? One guy said to me once when I told him I didn't like sports, he said, Frank Santorelli, a comedian, goes, well, how do you feel alive? I understand that. You never played sports growing up? Sure, I played Little League a little bit.

I can hit a ball. I'm a physically fit guy. You look fit. Yeah, I'm fit. Well, how do you stay fit? Well, I work out and shit, but I mean, competitive sports. I played a little tennis, played some baseball, never basketball. I can hit a softball pretty good. I mean, I work out and shit, but I mean, I don't, competitive sports, I played a little tennis, played some baseball, never basketball. I can hit a softball pretty good.

I mean, I can do it. I swam when I was a kid on a swim team. But can you smack the shit out of, like, you look like one of those guys who can hit a softball. I can hit a softball. Which is not an easy, I'm not a good softball hitter. Were you a basketball player? I like basketball. I could play, I could play ball.

I grew up playing ball, but I was never a big, I never had that big stick. Not to hit the ball with the stick kind of guy. I never could hit it far. You would think because of my size, but there's a technique. I don't have a good stroke, Mark, so you must have a good stroke. When I do it, I do it. There's a lot of misses.

You're like a second baseman. I can see you in left field making a diving case. Center field. No diving. Fat center field kid. Just backing up. There's a lot of backing up. There's no diving. There's no, holy shit, that thing's coming at me too fast.

Right. A lot of time. There it is. It's hanging there. I'll get under it. The story is, I broke my nose in center field because I fell backing up to catch a fly ball. And you fell on your face? I tripped backwards and it hit me in the face.

The ball hit you in your nose. So I had it lined up. Right. But that's not a fly ball. And you fell on your face? I tripped backwards, and it hit me in the face. The ball hit you in your nose. So I had it lined up. Right. But that's not a good indicator. You get hit in the face with a ball in center field, you're not a sportsman. If you get hit in the face with a ball in center field, you're not a fucking sportsman. And I could see why. But that was just like, you know, you didn't fight to overcome it.

It wasn't any, But I could see why. Because I've always had a fear of breaking my nose. Because I got a very prominent Jew nose. And I'm proud of this fucking nose. And I don't want anything to happen to it. Like my father's got a nose that makes mine look like Rob Lowe's nose. Yeah. Well, look, if I take my glasses off, I got.

That's nice, too. Yeah, I got a thing. It's not as full as yours. No. You have the full Jew. I have the roman jew yes yes yes you have a roman jewish you got the you got a little bulbous going yes yes my father's is like you know it's like old school dinosaur jew he's that kind of dinosaur jew that that won't exist yeah they're almost gone they're almost gone like that generation of jew Jews, they won't be here. And they'll be extinct. It's sad.

Like with the giant ears. Sure. My father's ears are probably as big as my cock. Yeah. Like his ears are huge. It's a weird comparison. I'm just saying, they're like 11 inches like my cock. I'm just playing.

I'm just playing. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, but so the book, this book has balls, sports rants from the MVP of Talking Trash. Who are your teams? New York teams. But I'm a players guy. Like, obviously, I love the New York Giants. I love the New York Knicks.

I'm all fucked up about the Knicks. But I love players. You know, like, I love different players. Like, basketball, football are my things. But, you know, like, I'll go with, because the Knicks suck, like, knicks suck like basketball like i go wherever you know and i can't stand the band in the knicks i had to for my own my own well-being and my own health because you get too angry it's too much it's a really dysfunctional abusive relationship and we deserve better yeah we deserve what's going on explain to me It's just the Knicks have not won a championship since 1973. The owner is Trump-like, this guy James Dolan, and he doesn't give a shit about the fans.

He's a rich guy whose father was a billionaire, and he was handed Madison Square Garden. He owns the Madison Square Garden? The Knicks, the Rangers, Radio City Musical. He owns a lot of New York. He's this little guy. Check this out. He's a billionaire whose father was a billionaire, and he has a blues band.

Do I need to explain anything else to you? What's his name again? James Dolan. He's in a fucking blues band. Yeah, it's no good. Not a rock and roll band. A blues band. A fucking blues band.

And he can play the garden whenever he wants. He tours on a private jet like he says a he's a billionaire that's i mean the antithesis of blues music you know your music yeah fucking billionaire who owns madison square garden and he was handed it yeah by his father yeah this the type of motherfucker so there's just been one mishap of handling after another. And Nick, he doesn't just own the team, which we couldn't blame him. He owns the team and he's made basketball decisions. And you can tell he never even had the life experience

of getting hit in the face with a softball in center field like you did. That was a hardball. That was a hardball. A hardball. Yeah. But he's never even had that. You can just tell he never.

Just a gilded cage kid. Silver spoon. And he's never even had that you can just tell he never just a gilded cage kid silver spoon and he's in a blues band he's got the balls to like do public shows what's the blues band called i don't the billionaire blues band i don't fucking know i mean to have the balls to be in a blues band and i mean you gotta and he'll talk about it like i understand the blues i'm like no you don't understand fucking anything you don't even walk around your own city that you own half of so you know

the Knicks are fucked up but the book is is essentially that it's all sports what you just did exactly I mean that would be another

that's for part two but it's essentially like it's just you know my frustrations you know it's not all like you know negative stuff it's not all like, you know, negative stuff. It's not all like they suck. Yeah, yeah.

You know, I fell in love with Mary Lou Retton in 1984. Oh, yeah. I fell in love with her. And everybody with the gymnast, right? Yes, but I took it to, I really fell in love. I went to, you know, a gymnastics exhibition, and I thought, like, that was going to be like we were going to fall. I was 14, Mark.

So don't judge me. I'm not going to judge you. So you went to see her on purpose? No, I went to the garden. I actually went to Madison Square Garden. To see her, though? To see Mary Lou Redding. And I went.

I was dressed up. And I had cologne on. And I thought, like, we're going to. Yeah. Yeah, it's going to happen. You're going to connect. And she saw me looking at her. And God is my fucking witness.

I said, this came out of me this has been like a month of preparation and i my father i was like you know i gave up my christmas presents i was like can you just because he was like what the fuck do you want to go to see gymnastics for what the fuck is it like yeah and i was like i want to just go i want to go like and he was like all right but that's your christmas present i was like, all right, I'm on a Saturday by myself in Madison Square Garden. Dressed up. In a turtleneck. In your bar mitzvah suit.

And I'm thinking, like, I'm going to go there and, like, Mary Lou Retton and I are going to fall in love. And I literally, while she came out, you know, it was like screaming kids. It was screaming kids in Michael Rapaport. One tall 14-year-old. Like a fucking crazy person. But in my head, I was like, she's going to see me.

It's all natural. This is, like, I was like, she's going to see me. She's going to come. This is like destined to happen. Why shouldn't it? Yeah. And I said to her when she got on the mats, I said, I swear to God, me and you, Mary Lou. And she looked over. And God is my witness. She said to her brother, who was like her flunky security guard, that guy looks weird.

It's a true story. And I went back to my seat and then left and then walked home in the fall of New York City by myself. The sad fall. Leaves falling down. And then I went home and took down my little shrine I had made for her. I didn't rip it because I thought maybe we'd reconnect later. But I put it in my closet and and that was the end you know it's you know it's even more amazing to me that if you know if you had the opportunity to meet her now and just tell her that she'd still be scared fuck and you know and all the

people I've ever met over the years I've still never met Mary Lou Regan if you said yeah I got a funny story. She'd be like, that shit's not funny. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She'd be like, that guy looks weird to her brother. So it's just shit like that. It's fun. You know, I mean.

Whatever happened to her anyways? I don't know. She's resting her puffy little feet in West Virginia. You know, she did a lot of jumping on those. She'll always be my sweetheart. It's funny, though. It's a scary moment when you look back on that stuff and you realize you get something in your head. I was thinking about that the other day, how much you project.

Like, how much you, oh, there's something here. There's got to be something here, right? And you don't know anything. There's nothing here. You're making it up. And men do that way more than women. They do it throughout their life. I think I felt something.

No, no. You want that to be there. It's not there yeah i have a friend of mine he had a story i'm not gonna name his name yeah he's never been on this podcast i'm not gonna name his name that narrows it down right but but he i remember he was like yeah me and this girl were vibing and you know we were looking at each other in the eyes and you know i finally went over to her and i was like, you know, how you doing? And she was like, how you doing? And he was looking at her. He's like an eye contact guy. Like, you know, like you're, you're, you're having soul connection.

And he said to her, are you thinking what I'm thinking? And she was like, yeah. And then she said, it looks like rain. Right. And then he was like, yeah, yeah. That's what I meant. But like, he thought they had this,-standing eye contact thing, and she was just like, yeah, it's going to fucking rain. You don't know what the hell people are thinking about. No, especially with women. And when you're young, you're so, so dumb. And at 14, that was the beginning of my dumbness.

Yeah. At 14, because 14 to 25, 26, you're so dumb. I was at my prime dumb, like at 23, 22. Yeah, that's where it happens. That's where the, you know, if you don't, if you live through 23, you're going to make it till your 30s. You'll make it there. But it's a dumb time. Dumb.

Because you don't, you're just trying to figure out who you are, right? You can't see outside of arm's length. But you think you got it all. And your fucking parents are dumb. They're dumb. They're dumb. And you have it all figured out at 19 yeah and i'm walking around with gonorrhea at 19 and like i know everything how'd you get that that's just a one night that was actually 16 i

got that plane i i got gonorrhea once yeah once uh in high school when i i first started having sex and i was having sex with three girls I had had sex with three girls so you made a mess of a lot of people's wives I made a mess I caught it from somebody but I was at basketball practice

I might have been 17 I might have even been 18 alright so somewhere between 16 and 18 it was between 17 and 18 and I was at basketball practice and you know this is before

they had like compression shorts you know when you work out they have like compression shorts and underarm this is where you just had tighty whities or a jockstrap who the fuck wants to wear a jo You know how when you work out now they have like compression shorts and underarm? This is where you just had tighty-whities.

Yeah. Or a jockstrap. Right. Who the fuck wants to wear a jockstrap when you're 17? Sure. I was in my tighty-whities at basketball practice

at Martin Luther King High School in New York City and I, you know, was guarding somebody and I said, did I just piss myself? And I look and I was like, there was like a little bit

of like a green thing. I went to the- A green thing? Yo, gonorrhea. that's what it is mark green it's like green you know like it's like a little drip i've never had it you're better off and then i'm sure yeah i never once thought like hey you know i kind of wish looking back on yeah you never had that experience so that was yeah but so that was but only once only once you had to go to the doc i had to go to the doc? I had to go to the doctor. You had to go to like, it's not the nurse. It's like the health room. Yeah, yeah.

You go in there and she's like, what's the matter? And you have to tell, 17, you know, humiliating that shit is. And then you got a strip in front of a woman who's going to stick a cotton swab in the tip of your loaf. Yeah. And then she tells you, it's fucking terrible. Did you ever figure how who gave it to you i it's just one of one of these two or three women did you tell them nope i got 17 i didn't have the balls to tell him i mean it was i didn't see them again yeah but it was you know yeah yeah

it's a shameful thing it is sure it. But luckily it wasn't anything long term. They gave you a shot and that was that. They gave me a shot. Yes. But the treatment for it isn't as bad as the sticking the cotton swab in there to see what's going on. And as a young 17 year old, it's embarrassing. I don't even know how we got on. I just admitted I had gonorrhea when I was.

And that was 1987, folks. So the ramifications are. You were stupid then. Yeah. It's embarrassing. I don't even know how we got on. I just admitted I had gonorrhea when I was, and that was 1987, folks. So the ramifications are. You were stupid then. Yeah. Yeah. So what was I going to say? You're doing a show, right? I'm on a show now.

With Jennifer Jason Leigh? Jennifer Jason Leigh. That I haven't watched. Atypical. People like it. It's a good show on Netflix. You like working with her? I love her.

She's great. I had her in here not too long ago. Oh, did you have her in here? Yeah, it was great. She has good stories, right? Yeah, well, she's great i had her in here not oh did you have her in here yeah it's great she has good stories right yeah well she's just she's intense she's a real deal yeah but she she's um she's got good stories she had a great career yeah yeah worked with so many people um good actress really good actress you are you is it you two working together a lot yeah me and her working together we're in a dysfunctional relationship um you know and and and she's just good you know like i always i've always been a fan of hers yeah and like she

was like you know somebody who i've always did you think that no no no i know well when she was in fast times of ridge my high it was either you were into her or phoebe cates yeah like it was like one of the other which way'd you go i was into jennifer jason lee yeah but i mean not like not like you know like i wasn't like not like mary lou retton right and i'll tell her like i love you jennifer jason lee but not like mary lou retton but i will tell you this when i worked with jennifer jason lee yeah and we worked together for three months every fucking day the jackson brown song you got to be somebody's baby yeah yeah yeah because that's the song she lost her virginity to

in Fast Times so every day it said I'm like got to be and I'm like oh she must have loved that I never told her I was too ashamed of myself

and she's cool like I asked her all kinds of stories but I was like every day I'd be listening to it it was like became my obsessive song

you'd play it? I'd play it I'd play it I'd sing it I was like you got to be cause that's the song it it was very sexually charged movie yeah I was young for a kid but she's always been one of my favorite yeah and um so yeah a typical and then I got this other show um that's really fucking good that's

coming out on Showtime with Jay Farrell called white famous which is nuts yeah what is that Jamie Foxx used to do this bit. He's an executive producer. He used to do this bit about when he first came to Hollywood, like he had made it to a certain level of fame and success, but he wanted to become White Famous, like crossover. And Jay Pharoah is the star of this show, and it's essentially about a young comedian, talented guy

who's trying to get big. Crossover, yeah. to get big yeah big big big yeah but it's very provocative in regards to race yeah um you know socially and and things that go on in hollywood but it's really just about a guy trying to find his way and will how much will he compromise or not compromise to reach his dreams? But it's fucking nuts. And what do you play? I play this director who is trying to get this young, hot comedian in his show. And the director's like, he's just nuts. He believes in method acting and it has to be real. And he keeps sort of tricking him and taking him out of his comfort zone.

And it's just very now. And even the title to me, I think it's just a great... I would love Donald Trump and all his followers to watch White Famous. It's going to drive them fucking insane. Yeah. What did we talk about the last time we were here? Oh, it was with Sylvester Stallone, right?

Copland. Yeah, Copland. Same type of shit. But what about De Niro? You work with him? Yeah, he's my man. I love him. Did we talk about him last time?

I mean, we could talk about him. He never gets old. He's fucking Bob De Niro. Yeah. I mean, he's my man. I love him. Did we talk about him last time? I mean, we could talk about him. He never gets old. He's fucking Bob De Niro. Yeah. I mean, I've never talked to him about acting. Yeah. I've talked to him about New York and just being around him. I don't want to be friends with him.

It's not like I wouldn't be friends with him, but I revere him and love him so much. Also, why would he want to be? He's a seven-year-old dude he's bob deniro what the fuck does he want to talk to me about i know yeah i literally have been with him and met him i've worked with him twice every time i see him my heart palpitates like every it races like a girl at a michael jackson concert i just have so much respect for him, and he means so much to me, and he's influenced me and inspired me so much. But what are you talking to him about? How you doing, Bob? What's going on?

I mean, when I see him, he'll kiss me on the cheek. Hello. Yeah. And I'm melting, like fucking Fonzie. I'm literally like a girl running away from Fonzie. Yeah, yeah. I just... I see him all the time at the Tribeca Film Festival.

He must know you. He must get familiar with you because you both grew up in New York. There's a language. Yeah, no, totally. He's familiar and he knows I love him and I've done things at the Tribeca Film Festival and I've worked with him twice.

But I just... There's certain people that mean so much to me that I don't want to try to break that. Right. I just, he's one of them. Don't want to ruin it in a way. I don't, it's not that he'll be disappointed. I just adore him so fucking much.

And now that he's gotten older, I think he's gotten more comfortable with people like me and the adoration that he's gotten for 40 years that has already made a very shy person even more shy. But the fact, I mean, in my opinion, like, you know, what he's done with New York post 9-11 and the outspokenness that he's taken towards Trump. I mean, that was one of his best performances when he called him a dog, a mutt. For him to do that, who doesn't talk about anything, you know that he's crossed paths with Trump over the years. This is a guy who's like, he knows this motherfucker's a dog, a mutt, a con, a lie, a cheat. And I was just like, fuck yeah, Bob. Tell him what the fuck is up.

Because we all love you. And we all want to call him a fucking dog, mutt, lie, con, and a fucking cheat. You memorized the monologue. Oh, it's one of his best performances and it was off the cuff yeah so how's uh so how's everything you got how's your kids good my kids are good they're 15 and 17 they um are completely uninterested in everything i have to say or have to do you know it's like that white noise really and now that they have uber and stuff and one of them's actually driving,

it's like they really don't need shit. Because in L.A., like, you know, you're like a car service, a parent. Like, now it's like, you know, they're at the point where, I mean, when I was 15 and 17, my father was like, and I lived in New York. You were out getting gonorrhea at 17. You know, I'd come in, Dad, can I get $5? Dad, can I, you know, you shut the door, you come in, you come and you go. So you know what's up with them, you come in, you come and you go.

So that's... So you know what's up with them, but they're good kids? They're good. They're rapaports, but they're doing... They're one of the only guys that can say that, and people are like, oh, okay. You know, they have tendencies and DNA, stuff that they can't escape, but they're doing better than I was at 17. Yeah, are they in show business i hope not i mean it's not hasn't revealed revealed it has yet hasn't reared its

its ugly head yet all right let's go we're gonna talk all day the book good book the book has this book has balls sports rants from the mvp of talking trash i always like talking to you i love i love talking to you i imagine you could sometimes i feel like you know yeah you could be talking and i could be like i'll be right back just kidding this is michael rapaport hosting the mark maron parry podcast for mark exactly you do it you step right up good seeing you man thank you mark i appreciate it michael rapaport right true character true new york character his book is called this book has balls sports rants from the mvp of talking trash you can get that where you get books john hammond you know i thought about this talk that i had with him a lot after i had it. His father was John Hammond Jr.,

who was a very famous A&R guy at Columbia Records, I believe, who signed Billie Holiday, Bob Dylan. He was involved all the way back, seemingly, to the beginning of music. But he was Bruce Springsteen, he signed. He was a sort of ever-present, sort of mythic A&R guy. And John Hammond, who I talked to today, is his son. It was not a close relationship from what I understand. And I don't know that I really got to the core of John Hammond here.

But what's at the core is some real blues. That's for sure. And maybe some of that, uh, is, is from the, the, that father and son relationship. I don't know. Maybe you can hear it underneath this conversation. Uh, you know, I'm not one to psychoanalyze. I don't want to talk too much shit, you know, before interviews. Uh, but you know, I found it resonant with me thinking about that what that relationship must have been like but my experience with john hammond as a musician like i had this one record years ago in high school i don't even know where i got it i probably got it from a box of records that they didn't want to play at the record store next to where i made sandwiches at the posh bagel on Central across from University of New Mexico next to

Budget Records, which dealt mostly R&B sounds. At the time that I got the records, the owners were kind of R&B people, and they had this box of records that they weren't going to play in the store. In that box of records, some of them changed my life. Certainly Elvis Costello's first record and the John Hammond mileage album. And I just, I never heard anyone play like that. You know, he, he, he plays harmonica and he plays guitar. Sometimes he plays a resonator guitar, a steel resonator guitar, and he does it simultaneously and he sings and, um, there's a pace to it.'s an intensity to it there's something truly unique about the way john hammond plays and sings and he's been doing it forever back in the day there

were records that he made you know with all different types of bands he made some stuff i didn't realize with you know dwayne allman uh he you know he did records with um levon helm robbie robertson way back in the day, uh, he had a great combo for a while on Source Point, and they're just an entire history of music with this guy that goes all the way back to the, all the way back to the late 60s, but the thing that, I was a strange fan because of this one record, Mileage, for years, and I was visiting my brother. For some reason, I was in Tucson, Arizona. My brother was going to school there.

I don't remember what year it was. I know I wasn't sober necessarily. I don't know. I can't place it in time, but this is my memory of it. I went there. I was with my brother, and in the paper somewhere, we saw that John Hammond was playing at the Tucson Blues Society I don't even know if that exists or what it is maybe I don't they didn't have their own venue but I remember going to a small space didn't feel like a performance space it felt like a bar

and it was me and my friend Laura Madden uh who was living in Tucson at the time and my brother and we went into this room and there was no opening act no nothing and from what i recall was maybe 40 people and i don't know how they brought him out or why it must have been a bar i don't know but i'd never seen john hammond and i'd never seen anything like this you know he came out with a national resonator guitar and this is my recollection and he he he did robert johnson's hellhound hellhounds on my trail and that's a tricky song because it's you know kind of not a full song it's sort of a meditation it's sort of a haunted thing that that bit and he just summoned the spirit of the history of blues and it all came out of him the authenticity of his particular

type of singing and his presence and the immediacy of what he does is mind-blowing he didn't want to play when when i had him over i don't know why but it doesn't matter uh you can go listen to him it would have been great but it didn't happen but when he played hellhounds on my trail and i saw that that night in in in tucson arizona for 40 people this this blues wizard i it just changed everything i understood or knew about the blues and made it very personal and very immediate and and very and he was just a portal to the pain that has always existed in humanity and in that music and for those reasons for those reasons what reasons all the reasons anyways I went and saw him down here at McCabe's, and he was just as amazing as ever.

I met his wife, and they just traveled together, just him and her in the dressing room. And it was great. It was a real, it was very exciting for me. I wanted to share my excitement about John Hammond with you folks. And maybe you go listen to some John Hammond music. John Hammond with you folks. And maybe you go listen to some John Hammond music. He's going to be in the New York City area tomorrow night, Friday, November 4th,

at the Town Crier in Beacon, New York. And I would go see him if he could. This is me and the amazing John Hammond. Ash Grove was one of the great clubs ever. Yeah? It was out here? Yeah, 8162 Melrose. Oh, I know. I think someone else told me about that place. It became a comedy club. Yeah, the improv.

Yes, exactly. And back in the day, they had all kinds of music, right? It was the best. But not just blues, everything. Everything. Bluegrass, jazz, poetry. That's what became the improv. That's crazy.

Back in the day, Cheech and Chong were a folk duo. Yeah. They did songs, you know, and between songs, they had this patter that became so hysterical, the audience didn't want to hear the music anymore. Is that what happened? Yeah. I mean, they're both really good guitar players. Well, I know that Tommy was a songwriter and part of an R&B outfit,

Canadian R&B outfit. Yeah, I think from Vancouver. Yeah, he's from Vancouver. And Rich Marin, he lived not far from the Ash Grove. Uh-huh. And they used to come hear me play. And when they hit with their record, they said, how'd you like to go on tour with us?

So I opened for them for a bunch of times and all through the Midwest on little chartered planes. On that first record, yeah. Oh, man. They were huge. Oh, they were so funny i mean genuinely funny yeah they were in here together oh not long ago a few years ago and and they were in and out you know uh as friends but they're very close no matter what but to hear

them both on mic in my head just talking i was like oh shit that's a ginger chuck i know it's wild yeah they were great yeah well like where i first i think the first record i had of yours like Just talking? I was like, oh, shit. That's a J.J. Chalk. I know. It's wild. Yeah, they were great. Yeah. Well, like, I think the first record I had of yours, like, I'm 54. I just turned 54 yesterday. And somehow, I don't remember how I got. Happy birthday.

Well, thank you very much. But, like, I've always been sort of a blues freak since I was a kid because someone turned me on to it. But the first record I got of yours was Mileage. Mileage. Yeah. And I don't know where it came from in my back, but had it in high school and that you know uh riding in the moonlight yeah that guitar on that it just killed me man that album's great and then that but that was the door

in right and then you know as i get older i realize oh he's done a hundred records there's a lot of records and then i kind of i just like just the other day i picked up one uh which oh what's it called it was the one where i look at the back i had no idea 67 maybe the fourth record and i'm looking at the players and it's robbie robertson leave on helm uh uh bloomfield on piano right charlie muzzlewhite's first recording session oh was it really yeah oh he's a hell of a harp player he's still around right oh yeah he's doing better than ever oh yeah he's up in the bay area he's up in well north of the bay area and uh and he's he's doing some touring i think with ben harper okay all right right. He's doing really well. He was with Cindy Lauper

on her blues adventure. No kidding. She did a blues adventure? Yep, she did. What is that? I know. Give me a break. What does that mean?

So which one? Oh, that's So Many Roads, right? So Many Roads, right? 1964. But like you're like, you've been, and then I saw you, I saw you, this is weird because

it was a pretty big moment for me. I was visiting my brother in Tucson. In Tucson, yeah. And you were like at the Tucson Blues Society. Uh-huh. Something like that. And I was in town. I'm like, that can't be, what, he's just going to be here?

And there must've been like 40 people there. And, but the thing was, was amazing though. You played Hellhounds and you just summoned the thing i mean that i i don't i've never heard like because when you listen to the robert johnson records you can't picture that stuff being activated in the sense of being live but you did it i do so many robert john. Was that a relationship that, in terms of your relationship with that music, did that come later? Or was that there at the beginning? It was there in the beginning.

I first heard Robert Johnson on a Folkways album called The Country Blues that Sam Charters produced. It was out of his collection, I'm sure. And there was just one cut. And who is this guy, you know? Yeah. So I made it a- What cut was it?

A bit of Preaching Blues. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then it became a quest to find out if he had recorded other things. Nobody seemed to know anything about him. Were you playing already? No. I was just a fan. Like, how old were you when you first heard that stuff 16 uh-huh uh-huh and um so i i found two other

cuts of his on a origin of jazz library i think it was swedish label or something isn't that wild and uh found two more so they hadn't put it all out they hadn't put that collection out yet no no see my my dad was responsible for that see i didn't really grow up with my dad john hammond senior yeah i i knew him on occasion you know from you know a weekend certain weekends two weeks in the summer that kind of deal and but he he's he signed billy holiday right dylan spring all of them but you didn't you weren't hanging out there no no i didn't hang out with him so one day i was up at his house yeah and i said dad have you ever heard of a guy named robert

johnson he said funny you should ask and then he was trying to get him to play at his Spirituals to Swing concert in 1938. Yeah. And he had tracked him down and found out he had died. Ooh. Yeah. So he said, not only that, and he opens his cabinet over there. And he had four Robert Johnson records. The 78s?

On Vocalion. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. It was like a treasure trove. Oh my god. I couldn't believe it. It was like I felt the hair stand on my neck

kind of. Yeah, yeah. And he introduced me to this guy in Columbia who was in charge of the archives named Frank Driggs. Your dad did. Yeah. And Frank made me a tape, a reel-to-reel tape of like 12 Robert Johnson songs. Oh my god. It was like I died died and gone to heaven, kind of.

And it was just unbelievable. So you were 16 about? No, I was 17 by then. Yeah. The album was released in 1960. Yeah. Those 30 songs or however many there were? No, there weren't that many.

There was like 12, I think. And that was it. And that was it. Well, there were others. There was like 12, I think. And that was it. And that was it. Well, there were others. There were outtakes and stuff. But the king of the Delta Blues was that album. And not long after that, I started playing guitar. Your old man put that out.

He did. He produced it. And Frank Driggs was the guy who who engineered it and you know made it sound really good so that was your moment that was that was a moment yeah i mean i was a blues fanatic at that point you know i was into uh you know blind boy fuller yeah blind blind willie mctell all the the country blues guys Who was the guy that lived in New York that Todd Bromberg had a play? Which one was that? Maybe Gary Davis.

Yeah, yeah. Reverend Gary Davis. Yeah, I mean, he was in the Bronx. Yeah. I went to his house once. You did too? Oh, yeah. Jorma Kalkinen was like a real fan of his too.

I went to school at Antioch College in Ohio. And Jorma Kalkinen was a student there, older than me by a year. Uh-huh. And he and this guy named Ian Buchanan were the guitar players. Uh-huh. And Ian Buchanan was like a really great guitar player and a good singer, too. He was very shy. Yeah.

So he never really got a career going for himself, but he was really phenomenal. And Jorma was hanging out with him all the time. He played a lot of Blind Boy Fuller stuff and a lot of that Piedmont style. Oh, yeah. I used to watch them play and say, holy shit. I got to get to work. It was unbelievable. You were playing at that point?

I had just bought a guitar, and I was too shy to ask anybody to show me anything, but I watched, and I picked up stuff, and oh, 1961 is when I started to really get intensely into it. So you grew up in New York City. I grew up in New York City. I grew up in New York City. I went to art school in Skowhegan, Maine.

And your folks weren't together? No, no. I grew up with my mother and my brother Jason. Yeah. And in the village. Oh, yeah. And so I watched the whole village scene. What did you go to art school for?

I was a painter and a sculptor. That's what I did. That's what I was good at. Everything else was weird. When you were a kid? Yeah. Uh-huh. And so I got into this very prestigious art school.

One of my roommates was a guy named David Goetz. Yeah. And David was a really good painter. Yeah. One of the teachers there was Alex Katz. Oh, sure. Yeah. I know his work. Yeah. Talk like this. He's from painter. Yeah. One of the teachers there was Alex Katz. Oh, sure, yeah. I know his work, yeah. Talk like this.

He's from Brooklyn, you know. He says, I'm a painter. Not a painter, a painter. He was such a character and such a phenomenal painter and a good teacher. David Goetz was one of my roommates, and I had a collection of 45s, you know. And everybody wanted my records, you know, so there'd be parties.

I was 17. I was the youngest student ever there. Uh-huh. And all these guys were like scholarship guys from really well-known art schools and stuff. And you were this kid. And so, yeah, I was the kid. Yeah. And David, after Scowhegan, he went to the San Francisco School of Fine Arts.

And he loved to play drums and stuff, so he was always fooling around and stuff. Yeah. Well, he put together Big Brother and the Holding Company. No kidding. He was the drummer. Yeah. He was the one who got Janis Joplin and stuff. And it's a small world,

you know. Well, it was then. Yeah. You know, I don't know if it's small anymore. But it's certainly like, that always fascinates me

about the scene. Yeah. Because like, you know, you're only like, the folk scene was, rock and roll officially starts in 57

and the folk scene was even more intimate. So, you know, it all, you were there at the beginning yeah at that that stuff so it all happened so why'd you why'd you give a painting um because i once i had that guitar and started to sing those songs that i loved uh i just that's all i wanted to do. It's like I found my calling. So you start playing guitar at what age? 61. I was 18. That's late.

Yeah, I guess. But I knew all the songs. I knew all the words. Because you've been listening to the blues for so long. Right. And wandering around the village. Yes. Were you going to see those guys before you started playing?

I saw Josh White and Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee, Lead Belly once. But when I was seven, my father took me to hear Big Bill Brunzi. Oh, yeah. This is 1949. Wow. And Big Bill was unbelievable. And my father knew him. Yeah.

And so he introduced me to him him and I was awed. I think that was the point at which I knew that blues was in me somehow because I mean, I really connected to that music. It really is in you. I guess after 55 years on the road,

I guess. No, but like even at the beginning, I mean, your feel for it is insane. I mean, no one plays like you and the depth of it, because that's the experience I had listening to Hellhounds when you sat there with that national guitar in a small room with 40, 50 people in it, and it was like you brought that thing to life, and it's a dark bit of business. Oh, yeah.

No, I mean, I was into it completely. bit of business oh yeah no i mean i was into it completely i you know i think that club was called terry and zeke's friendly bar in tucson in tucson and there was a a great dj called kid squid and kid squid had this great collection of records i mean all kind of stuff yeah blues to you know All kind of stuff. Yeah. From blues to, you know, funky R&B to a lot of rockabilly stuff. I mean, he was the best DJ I ever heard. And he made me up some cassettes for the road, you know.

Oh, yeah? Oh, they were phenomenal. That's sweet. In 1961, you know, I made a trek to Chicago hoping to see Muddy Waters or Howling Hills. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I met Michael Bloomfield and Charlie Musselwhite. And they took me all around to all these clubs. And I got to see Wolf and Muddy. No kidding.

And not only was Michael a great guitar player, Muddy and Wolf would call him up to sit in on the bandstand. And no shit. God, he was 17 and I was 18, and he was just amazing. And you just met him, you just found him. At the University of Chicago, there was a folk festival. Oh, okay. And you went to see it?

Yeah, I did no Chicago at all. And then I met Michael and them, and they showed me around. And Charlie was a kid, too? Charlie was a kid, too. If you turned sideways, you couldn't see him. Oh, really? didn't know chicago at all and then i met michael and them and they showed me around and charlie was a kid too charlie was a kid too if you turn sideways you couldn't see him oh really string being lanky oh yeah so that was before bloomfield was playing with anybody that's before he was playing with anybody with uh paul butterfield right well i mean paul and michael had a kind of love-hate relationship uh wasn't he in the band or no? Oh, he was eventually. But the way it turned out was that, you know,

Paul wanted to be the guy. Yeah. He had Elvin Bishop playing guitar with him. Right. And he wouldn't let Elvin take a solo. But he's a harmonica player. Paul. Yeah.

Yeah, he took all the solos. So no guitar solos just all yeah right just in the pocket no kidding so electro records uh said the only way we'll we'll record you paul is if you have a lead guitar player and it's got to be michael bloomfield and i don't think paul was very about that. But they made some great records. They did. And Bloomfield went on to play with Dylan in the seminal sort of first election. I introduced him to Dylan.

You did? I introduced the band to Dylan. Dylan and I were really good friends. When Bob first moved to New York, there were three guys, Kerner, Ray, and Glover, and they were from Minneapolis. Yeah. And they were hanging out in New York playing gigs at coffee houses, and they were really good. Yeah. Dave Ray played a 12-string guitar.

Uh-huh. John Kerner played six-string, and Tony Glover played harmonica. And they were just wonderful. Yeah. And when Dylan came to New York, they introduced me to Bob. Oh, because they were from Minneapolis. Yeah. And we got along really well right off the bat.

And Bob was, you know, like a Woody Guthrie guy. Yeah. He had talking blues and stuff that were and he was fantastic i mean what a great solo man that guy could really grab you you know yeah was he hanging out with rambling jack then oh yeah he knew every the whole folk scene was so intense dave van ronk and all all these great players in new york i mean and you were in it too? Oh yeah, I was hanging, I was there. What year was this? 1961 and 2. So you're playing out now? Yeah, I'm playing in little

clubs, the past your hat coffee houses. But not like Cafe Wa? Well, the Cafe Wa didn't come until a little later. But there were others, the Fat Black Pussycat and all these joints.

And me and Dylan, Richie Havens. Oh, yeah, yeah. John Sebastian. Mm-hmm. A guy who called himself Juan Moreno. I think his name was Peter Cohen. Yeah. And he played flamenco style. It was a scene.

It was really a great scene. It was intense. And this is before it blew up. This is like as it was. This was 61, early 62. And there was that one record store that had. The Folklore Center? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. It was like the headquarters. Izzy Young ran the whole thing. Dave Van Ronk was like the mayor. Right. He knew everybody, anybody coming through that played a little blues or whatever, hang out with Dave Van Ronk. And then those old blues guys got integrated into this scene, correct?

Later. Oh, it was later. So you meet Dylan and you meet the guys from the band. No, no, no, no. Okay. I was playing gigs starting 62. Okay. I was playing gigs starting 62. My career, I came to Los Angeles in March of 62. Really?

And I started my whole career here. No kidding. I went as far away from home as I could get and made myself up and was playing at the Ash Grove and the Troubadour. You moved here. I moved here, yeah. I was ready to be somebody else. I wanted to be John Hammond, the blues singer.

Not John Hammond, the kid of the guy. Right. Lots of luck with that. From the neighborhood or the painter. But anyway, I was out here for about eight months. I got my first gig through Hoyt axton oh yeah hoyt was just the greatest guy oh man what a what a wonderful human being and he got me my first paying gig yeah southgate the satire club frank and joyce thompson owned this place and it was wonderful

from there i played at the insomniac. Where was that? Bob Hare. That was in Hermosa Beach. Oh, wow. Oh, and these were paying gigs. And you were with a band or just on the guitar? No, I was just playing solo. To me, that was the art. If you could pull it off as a solo,

that was like being Robert Johnson or Willie McTell or Blind Boat Full. That was the thing for me. So anyway, I worked all these gigs out here. Who were you working with? Who was on the shows with you? Oh, God. I was so many.

I played at the Ash Grove as an audition for opening for the Staple Singers. And that was, they were awesome. They were just pops on guitar, Roebuck Staples, Mavis, Purvis, and Cleotha. I saw you open for them, I think, at the bottom line. Yeah. Like maybe a decade ago or so. Is that possible? It's very possible.

And I remember- I worked a lot of shows. I remember watching you and I saw a string pop in the second song and I was like, oh, God damn it. Now he's got to deal with that. I can change it in 20 seconds. No problem. Anyway okay so staples and just and pop staples you know i i played my little set and he came up to me said son yeah i don't know how in the world you learn to play like that but whatever you do don't stop and it just filled me with a whole room.

I mean, I just knew this was going to happen. Anyway, I got to meet all these players out here. I started to work often at the Ash Grove. The Ash Grove was the greatest club. I worked shows there with Lightning Hopkins, with Doc Watson. Yeah, Taj said he used to be a door guy there. Yeah, he was. the greatest club. I worked shows there with Lightning Hopkins, with Doc Watson. Oh yeah, Taj said he used to be a door guy there.

Yeah, he was. That's who it was. Taj moved here from Boston. Yeah. And Taj, like,

put together the Rising Suns. They were so good. Oh yeah, that first record? Oh. Yeah. That sounds like

a chess record, that first record. I mean, Ry Cooter. Oh, yeah. And Jesse Ed Davis. Oh, my God. These guys could really play.

And Taj was a great harmonica player and a great guitar player. He was the real deal. And you said you opened for Wolf? Yeah, I opened for Wolf at the Ash Grove for a week. It was incredible. With his whole band with Hubert and the guys? Yeah, Hubert, the whole package. Wow.

And Wolf told me stories and stuff. I mean, he was really nice to me. He really thought I could play. You can play. But you were like 22? I was less. I was maybe 20, 21. And you were still, it was just you and the guitar. Yes, that's all

I aspired. And then I came back to New York, and I auditioned at Gertie's Folk City, which was the club in New York. And I got the gig, and me and Phil Oakes played for a week and were held over for a week. Wow. And we both got signed up to Vanguard Records. Vanguard, yeah.

I'd been playing for less than a year professionally and I had my first recording deal. And I knew Bob really well at the time. Bob Dillon? Bob, yeah.

Bob was the guy. You still talk to him? No. Not really? No, Bob is, you know. He's from Bob Land. Yes. But I mean, you know,

he was just, he, I think he's incredible. Sure, yeah. And anyway, I was playing gigs. I got a manager and an agent in 63, Manny Greenhill, Folklore Productions. Oh, yeah. And I got all these gigs in Canada, Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal. Really?

Did they like you better up there or something? No, it just, there was a folk scene that was happening. There was a circuit. So this is still before the blues folded in, or around the same time, where the old blues, the guys. In 1963, I was playing gigs in Toronto, and a guy came backstage after one of my shows and said, hey, listen, there's a band playing in town

at the Concord Tavern. You've got to come check them out. So it was Levon and the Concord Tavern. You got to come check them out. Yeah. So it was Levon and the Hawks. Yeah. And they were incredible. Yeah. And Robbie was like so intense, such a great guitar player. And Levon could sing his ass off.

And they had a piano player named Richard Manuel. Uh-huh. And he was phenomenal. Yeah. And he could sing, too. I mean, they were great. So anyway, they would call me up and sit in, and we became really good friends.

You'd go sit in with them. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then they would come down. They were the backup band for Ronnie Hawkins. Ronnie Hawkins, yeah, yeah. They left Ronnie and went out on their own, but played a lot of the same gigs that Ronnie played

when he came to the U.S. So they'd come down to Jersey Shore. Tony Mart was one of the clubs they played, and Joey D's Starlighter Lounge. And I'd come and sit in with them and stuff. And one day they were trying to get a recording deal in New York, and it wasn't happening. And I was already signed to Vanguard.

So I said, well, how would you guys like to play with me on a record? Yeah. They said, sure, what the heck. Yeah. So I invited Bob to the session, and Michael Bloomfield and Charlie were in town that week. And we had one session. That's three hours.

And we made that whole album in three hours. That one day in so many roads? So many roads. Three hours. Yeah. Vanguard thought that they were kind of scruffy. Oh, yeah. But anyway, I mean, it came out real good.

I introduced everybody to Dylan. Yeah. The next thing I know, Robbie and Levon are playing with Dylan, you know. Wow. Dylan yeah the next thing I know Robbie and Levon are playing with Dylan you know wow so I'd introduced them all to Dylan who used everybody he used Michael Bloomfield he I mean Bob and I were really good friends and he he really respected where I came from and well it was probably too because that wasn't really his world and you know... He was a blues fan, though. Right. Oh, always. Right, but he really built the folk thing.

That's right. So when he broke out, it was monumental. And it was a smart next step, you know, the blues, electric blues. It was his thing. It was his thing.

He really, he had the vision. I talked to Robbie. You did? I have. And when he talks about that tour, he was like, oh, my God.

They're just getting booed off stage everywhere. It must have been unbelievable. I can't imagine how. And then he wanted to do more. Yeah. You know? And if he hadn't sadly had that motorcycle accident, the band might not ever happen. I know.

Tell me about it, man. It's wild. It's too much. So the first three records, you just dumped all at's wow it's too much so what so the first three records you just dumped all at once they all came out in 64 your first three no no no no my my my first album i recorded in december of 62 okay it was released that all right summer yeah and then i went into the studio again that fall i made big city. Yeah. And then the next year, I made an album called Country Blues, which is also acoustic solo. And then that fall, I mean, it was, I think, November or so of 64, we did the So Many Roads album. 64, we did the So Many Roads album.

And then Robbie and I went up to the Brill Building, Tin Pan Alley, into Lieber and Stoller's office. You did, yeah. And we talked them into giving us a session to do a demo single. Uh-huh. And they had a studio, the Rolling Stones were in town. Uh-huh. And they'd come to hear me play the year before. The Stones.

Yeah. So Brian Jones and Bill Wyman came to the recording date. I got Bill to play bass on it. Yeah. And Rick Danko. Ah. And they had a studio drummer

named Charles Otis from New Orleans who had come up on Lieber and Stoller's request. And so we were going to make two sides, right? Yeah. And we had a three-hour session, and we cut like 18 songs. No kidding. Yeah. And that became I Can Tell. I Can Tell, right. Danko's. No kidding. Yeah. And that's... It became I Can Tell.

I Can Tell, right. Danko's on that record? Yeah. And Bill Wyman. I told Brian Jones, I'm sorry, I'm playing harmonica. Okay. So, and Robbie played as good as I ever heard

anybody play guitar on that man. He just killed me. Oh, man. I mean, Robbie, when he wanted to play blues, he played blues. He can, right? It always robbie when he wanted to play blues he played blues he can right it always shocked me when when he started playing you know more folk style stuff but i guess that's you know uh dylan's influence sure well he cut his teeth and you know real roadhouse shit oh yeah i mean they had to deliver i i spent a lot of time with those guys in Toronto. I mean, I've been to Robbie's home.

I met his mother. I mean, it was a very tight-knit scene. And Toronto had so many great players. Oh, man, Toronto was a real scene. Like who? Like who? David Clayton Thomas had a band called Powerhouse. Yeah.

And they were phenomenal. It was just like a lot of people doing it up there. Yeah. Oh, man. Were you a fan like the British guys? Not really. Not in the beginning. But when the Stones came to hear me play,

and I got to know Brian Jones. Brian was a blues fanatic just like me. He was into it. And if he had lived, I suppose they'd still be doing a whole lot more blues. Was that like 65, 66? 64 and 5. That's when I knew them, yeah. And anyway-

Because they were a real blues band. That's what they wanted. Yeah. I was on shows with Fleetwood Mac. Peter Green. Oh, man. I was on shows with uh fleetwood mac peter green oh man i was on shows with them and i heard them playing this oh this is a blues band okay and the next thing i know they're doing rock and roll and well he kind of spun out somehow yeah whatever i don't know

listen that i don't want to get into you know i don't i didn't know everybody that well so i didn't but he was a hell of a player though, huh? Oh yeah, man. And Jeremy Spencer. Yeah, yeah. Ooh. Man, these guys were into it big time. They were great. Blues fanatics.

That was the thing. That's the thing really, wasn't it? Eric Clapton. I did my first tour in England in 65. Yeah. I went over there

not knowing much about the scene and I met everybody. I went on tour with John Mayall. Oh, yeah. And I met Eric Clapton, who was playing guitar with him, and Eric was just phenomenal. I mean, his idol was Freddie King.

Freddie King, yeah. And he had that down. Yeah, yeah. But he was also brilliant. I mean, he had that upper vision, I guess. He really knew what he was all about. And that was when he was playing with the Blues Breakers? Yeah, the Blues Breakers.

And I met Stevie Winwood. And I mean, these guys were really great players. I met Georgie Fame. There was a guy named Graham Bond. Yeah. The Atomic Bond. Yeah. He played the organ and the saxophone at the same time.

Sure, yeah. He was nuts, man. This guy was out there. Yeah. I was over in England and Bob came and played his first show. Yeah. In England and invited me to the Royal Albert Hall to hear him play. And it was, he killed it.

With the band? Oh, no. Just by himself? By himself. Oh, before, yeah. Joan Baez was there? Oh, no. Just by himself? By himself. Oh, before, yeah. Joan Baez was there. Oh, my. And I was hanging out in the back, and everything was being filmed by the Pennybakers and whatever.

Oh, that's that tour, the Don't Look Back tour, right? From the movie. Right. And then after the show, there was this big party, and there were the Beatles. Come on. I know. John Lennon walks up to me and he says, Dr. Kildare. And I said, no.

He says, I know. He said, how would you like to drive around Hyde Park in my Rolls Royce? I said, okay. And we drove around and it was really cool. John Lennon was something else. Sweet guy. Funny right?

Funny and brilliant you know. I felt intimidated. But you had a good time. Oh, man. So anyway, I went back to the U.S. and all full of myself, you know. I was 65 and 66, I was hanging out in the village playing at the gaslight. And I mean, it seems like so much happens in a short time when you're happening, you know. Yeah, yeah. when you're happening, you know? Yeah, yeah. I was playing at the Gaslighter.

A friend of mine, Ben Afflebaum, came down and said, man, there's a guy playing across the street at the Cafe Roy. He's playing stuff off your record. I said, ooh. So I went over between sets, and it was Jimi Hendrix. Yeah. He called himself Jimi James at the time. Yeah. And he was hanging out James at the time. Yeah.

And he was hanging out and when he got done playing I was introduced to him and he said, man, I'm starving. Can you get me a gig? Yeah. So I played a show at a place called

the Cafe Ogogo. Howard Solomon was the owner. So I went over to Howard the next day and I said, you know, if I put a band together. Yeah. He said, I got an opening next week.

So I put this little band together with Jimmy James playing lead guitar. Come on. I think every musician that was in New York came to the show. We were there for a week. Because they knew about you guys? Yeah. I mean, man, Jimmy was unbelievable. He played with his teeth.

He was just awesome. Was this like before the Isley Brothers? Hadn't he played with them a little bit? After the Isley Brothers. Okay. He'd been on the road with Curtis Knight. Right. And he was fired from the band in New York.

In New York. Yeah, probably. Upstaging him. And so he was just hanging out in New York. He was kind of stranded. So you put a band together? I put the band together. Who's playing bass? Oh, God.

So many guys sat in with us. Oh, really? Just an ongoing sort of parade? Yes, it was great, though. Were you playing electric? Yeah, I was playing electric. And at the end of the week, Chaz Chandler from the Animals came up to Jimmy and said,

you know, I'd love to record you. Here's money for a plane ticket to England. I'll record you and i'll put you on the map and um he went to and that was it that was it man oh man but when you when you guys were playing together at that time could you just tell that he was beyond anybody that heard him play it would just say who is that yeah what is going on? No, he was unbelievable. He was truly amazing. And anybody that heard him would flip out. And did you ever see or work with Jimmy Reed?

Jimmy Reed, yeah. Yeah, because he lived a while, right? Oh, he was incredible. He was the guy, everybody loved him. Jazz guys, bluegrass guys, country guys, everybody loved Jimmy Reed. Yeah. So I opened for him in Oakland.

A guy named Chris Schrakowitz put together this concert, and I opened for Jimmy Reed. It was just awesome. And you were a fan, right? Oh, I was just like idolized him. Anyways, I got back to New York eventually, and I told my friends, you know, I was on the show with Jimmy Lee. Yeah, yeah.

And they said, right. Uh-huh. Yeah. You know, after a while, I got, you know, I got tired of being told I was wrong. Yeah. So I like to tell this story about 12 years ago, Martin Scorsese put on the Year of the Blues spectacular Radio City Music Hall. 50 artists, count them. And there were two days of rehearsals.

My wife, Marla, and I are backstage. And John Fogerty walks up to me. He says, man, I saw you open for Jimmy Reed. Whoa. I was like, yeah. No really it was really cool because he's from up there yeah he's probably a kid who went to go see it oh I mean it was you know I mean I've had a lot of moments like that where you know it all sort of comes together right right so when did you start doing the uh you know because like I noticed on, you go back and forth, but like Source Point, that's 1970 already, right?

And you did it on other records too, but you put together a full electric band. In 1967, after I'd had the experience playing with Jimmy, I approached Charles Otis, who had recorded on the I Can Tell record. And I said, would you be interested in going on the road with me if I put a band together? He's a drummer? Oh, yeah. He started his career in 1950 with Professor Longhair. Oh, down in New Orleans.

He's a New Orleans guy. Yeah, so he's got that swing. Got that swing. So Charles thought about it for a minute. And then he said, you know, I don't think I'd do it for anybody else, but for you, I'll do it. So we put together this power trio, right? Yeah, yeah.

And John Hammond and the Screaming Nighthawks. Is that what it was? Yeah. And we went to, well, came out to the West Coast in 67 played at the avalon ballroom with the grateful dead and all these other bands bill graham presents uh no this was chet helms okay and before bill graham uh maybe bill was still was that was out here but i this was the offer that i had yeah i uh eventually played a lot of gigs for bill yeah what a guy yeah he was the first guy that ever gave me a bonus oh yeah 250 dollars

i was in heaven you played the film more a lot yeah i played the film more east and west yeah um but that was in later in the 60s uh later in the 60s yeah all right so tell me about this trio so you guys oh so charles otis yeah herman Pittman played the bass on some of the dates. Other times we used Lee Collins. Other times, Sherman Holmes. Charles knew everybody. I mean, everywhere we went. If we came to LA, we had a horn section. If we went to, you know, I mean, he knew everybody. I mean, everywhere we went. If we came to LA, we had a horn section.

If we went to, you know, I mean, he knew everybody everywhere. It was outrageous. And it's nice to go that loose with that music. Oh, man. Sure. It's like jump in kind of music, right? It wasn't, but, you know, it was like my call. And Charles had enough respect for me to, you know, say, okay, listen to what he says.

And it was, I mean, Charles, okay, listen to what he says. Yeah. And I, it was, I mean, Charles was a real mentor to me in so many ways. He was so professional. And he had toured with Lloyd Price and Little Richard. He had toured with all these great New Orleans bands, you know. And had done the whole Chitlin circuit, you know. And I mean, he was amazing. And that's what led to Source Point?

That's what led to Source Point. That's what led to Source Point. And it was supposed to be produced by Lieber and Stoller. Yeah. One afternoon at Columbia, and they said, John, we're out of here. I can't work with these people. With who? With Columbia Records. Oh, okay.

So all of a sudden, it was in my lap. And I had Charles on drums and Billy Nichols on the bass. And that was it. That was the... You produced it. Yeah. I had to. I mean, we had already booked the dates.

It's probably the best thing, man. It was great, man. We had so much fun. It was so much fun. I can't imagine that record if Lieber and Stoller produced it. Oh, it would have been great. They had a keyboard player named SQ Reader who was going to be on the show. Uh-huh.

SQ Reader. Yeah. And he was a protege of Little Richard. Uh-huh. And he was out there. But- He didn't play? No, he didn't play because Mike and Jerry said no.

Anyway- Good record, though. Oh, yeah. Columbia did nothing with it nothing for it I think they were they didn't know what to do is that wasn't that your dad's label

yeah but he wasn't around it was awkward you know yeah very awkward I got the thing because

I got signed to Columbia because Arthur Penn yeah had asked me to do the music for Little Big Man great job on that by the way

and that's what in order to do, I had to sign with Columbia. Wow. So I signed with Columbia and flew out here to do the, I mean, I played live to the track. That was just you and a guitar, though. Was that a National you used? I used a National on some tunes and the others on my Gibson. Yeah.

I remember seeing that taunting, man. That's like way before Ry Cooter did. What a movie. Oh, yeah, man. Man, I was so impressed. It's a great movie. I said to Arthur Penn, I said, you know, the music I'm playing didn't exist then. He said, doesn't matter.

It'll work. Arthur Penn was incredible. It didn't exist then. He said, it doesn't matter. It'll work. Yeah. Arthur Penn was incredible. It didn't exist then. He said, it'll work. Anyway, I mean, because he had done Bonnie and Clyde with Flatt and Scruggs, and that worked. Yeah, yeah. That's right.

I remember that opening scene with Hoffman and the old man. Turn that thing on. Turn that thing on. Oh, man. Yeah. Oh, so that's how you got into Columbia. on. Turn that thing on. Oh, man. Oh, so that's how you got into Columbia. Yeah, that's how it got into Columbia. Through the side, kind of. Yeah.

So we made Source Point. And they just sat on it. And you had one of those. You had one of those gold-topped deluxe. Yes, I did. It sounds so fucking good on that record. Oh, man, I had so much fun making that record. Anyway, the band was together.

We were touring. Yeah. And then, you know, we weren't getting any promotion. I was not making bucks, whatever. Right. We'd go out on the road for a month and come back. I mean, I'd be broke. Yeah.

Because I wanted everybody to get paid. With that band. Yeah. The Source Point band. So I did some tours solo. I went back to playing solo. And I was on tour with Delaney and Bonnie. Oh, yeah.

And Delaney kept saying, man, I'd love to produce a record on you. Yeah. So I went up to Columbia, and Clive Davis had just become the guy at Columbia. And I said to him, Delaney and Bonnie want to produce an album on me. And Clive looked at me and said, who? And they had the number one and number two singles on the Billboard charts. I said, Delaney and Bonnie? And I showed him.

He says, oh, oh. Yeah. So anyway, I came back out here and we made I'm Satisfied. Yeah. That was number two for Columbia. And Delaney said to me, man, if this ain't a hit record, I'm going to kiss your ass on Broadway. That's what he said to me. And Clive Davis was so impressed with Delaney and Bonnie that he signed them, bought everything they ever did for Atlantic, gave him a bonus check for a quarter of a million dollars. I know this because Delaney showed me the check.

Yeah. And they did nothing for me. And they went in the studio with Delaney and Bonnie and a month later they got divorced and then nothing ever happened. Oh my God. Oh my God. They keep the money? What's that? I'm sure they kept the money. But anyway that was the end of that and then the

third record I made for Columbia was with Michael Bloomfield and Dr. John. Oh yeah I have that record. Triumvirate. How do you feel about that record? I thought it was really good. There were some cuts on it I thought could have been you know, hit records or whatever, but never

got promoted because every record label Columbia, Atlantic, everybody got investigated by the FBI for payola. Bad time. So there was no promotion, no nothing. We had just taped It's heartbreaking.

Yeah, it was kind of a a bummer for me and um so i went uh uh from columbia i went to capricorn yeah because i had gotten to know uh duane allman uh really well he he had recorded an album on my one for Atlantic which one? it was called Southern Fried oh and he's on that? yeah man is he ever I gotta get that record we got to be really good friends and Dwayne was phenomenal he's another guy that sort of had the gift

right kind of touched I've worked with some great guitar players no kidding anyway so Dwayne had died. I had gone to Capricorn because he said, oh, you know, we got a really good deal down there. So I went down to Macon and I made an album called Can't Beat the Kid. Yeah.

On Capricorn. And then he died? No, no. Dwayne had died before. Already? Oh, yeah. But I had done gigs with the Allman Brothers, and I had signed up with the Paragon Agency in Macon, and that was not good for me.

I opened for Wet Willie and Charlie Daniels and Marshall Tucker and all these boogie bands, you know. It didn't work. I got booed off the stage. Oh, really? Oh, fuck you, man. We want the almond, brother. We want the almond. So it was one of those, you know, gulpers.

Brutal. It was tough. And I was on a gig in Vancouver, B.C. with John Hyatt. And John Hyatt's agent was this guy, Mike Kappas. Yeah. And he had just formed an agency called Rosebud. Right. And so I went to get paid after my show

and there was a double contract and I got screwed out of a lot of money. And Mike was there. He watched the whole deal go down. That was my last show for Paragon Agency. Yeah. And Mike said to me, listen, if you ever want to work with someone who actually likes what you do, I'm the guy.

Yeah. A week later, I called him up and I said, listen, I'm ready. Yeah. So I was mike with for 36 years oh no he booked more than 4 000 shows for me that's great and all over the world yeah i mean the rosebud agency was just incredible and they're no longer no he he he closed the agency about three years ago, four years ago. And he had done so much. I mean, he did Muddy Waters and Willie Dixon. Oh, no kidding. Luther Al's and all these incredible blues and roots players. Los Lobos, John Hyatt, Robert Cray.

I mean, Mike Kappas was the guy. He was really wonderful so anyway he retired yeah he basically although he's

still very active and he does you know he's got his hands in a lot of pies what was it what was your

relationship with Muddy did you have one oh yeah I worked a lot of gigs with Muddy in fact

I got Muddy to sign with the Rosebud Agency. Oh, you did? Yeah. No, I mean, there was another just king of kings. He was, he and Wolf were like unbelievable. So different too, kind of, right? Yeah, totally different.

And they weren't the best of friends. No. Well, they were fighting each other. Yeah, well, they were, you know. Competitive. Back in the day. Yeah, yeah. You know, the.

Chicago. Chess years. Yeah, yeah. It was, you know, everybody in the day you know the the chicago chess years yeah yeah it was you know everybody wanted to to be the guy yeah my wife marla i i had met marla in 1989 and yeah we got together in 1990 and she saw me through all these uh years of sort of being rediscovered, put on the map again. And she basically took care of a lot of the production stuff. She kept track of all the things that I did well or wasn't so perfect. Why didn't you do that one again, John? Oh, no kidding. Oh, she's got ears, big time.

And these periods though because like i mean you've done you've put out like what 30 or 35 35 albums you like see them do one every year or so you tour your ass off yeah i might i have to assume that you you know over the years you got a good following oh yeah i mean it's going as well as it ever did for me maybe better but i'm not playing as many gigs i sure i'll be 75 yeah and you put it you put it all in yeah you know i mean no i'm still having fun you know i mean this is still good but it's you know it's something that i i gotta pace myself otherwise i'm just gonna yeah melt or something.

But in the downtime, you didn't seem to get bitter, did you? You know, life is weird, and I knew that from the beginning. You know, when I told my father this is what I was going to do, he said, this is a big mistake. And, you know, I mean, the business is the business, you know. It's really rough. But I got to imagine, like, you know i mean the business is the business you know it's really rough but i gotta imagine like you know having that father and then like knowing bob dylan then knowing your dad signed bob dylan it's there's got to be a moment where you're like oh man well listen i'm not my father

yeah and uh sure but at the same time you just gotta stand back and say holy cow what a guy yeah i mean he discovered count basey and yeah holiday lester young charlie christian he put the band together for benny goodman right over there married his sister no kidding he was uncle benny and uh and then to go on from there i mean he she he he discovered aretha franklin uh-huh and george benson uh god he kept going oh man and then leonard cohen and did the last uh uh i mean the put pete seeker back on the map right and then um you know dylan and uh billy holiday right yeah Billy Holiday, right? Yeah, Billy Holiday. And Springsteen. Springsteen, hello. It's crazy. And, oh.

Yeah. But the business is so rough and weird. I mean, my dad had a terrible stroke, you know, and he was, like, really hurting. My father never took a royalty from any of the artists he produced, ever. Oh, no kidding. And he took a salary from Columbia and that was it. He never. Really?

That was, I mean, it wasn't even much. And so here he is sick on his, you know, in bed and Columbia wouldn't pay for his hospital expenses. Oh my God. And it took Bruce Springsteen to come and say, if you don't take care of John Hammond's medical, I'm out of here. Wow.

And they did, and they finally did. But it took that. No kidding. That's the business. It's rough. And he tried to warn you. He did. He said, this is a big mistake.

But this was in me to do it. Did you have any sense if he listened to your records or liked the records? Oh, yeah. Oh, he did? Oh, yeah. No, he became an advocate for me, I guess. But in the background, I never asked him for anything.

Yeah, but he got it. He got it. He knew you were the real deal. Well, I don't know if he knew if I was the real deal, but he didn't want me to starve to death. No, he was an amazing human being. And what about, what's your relationship with Waits? Because that's a beautiful record you did, the Waits songs. Tom produced that album.

I mean, with my wife Marla. Whose idea was that? It was Marla's idea. Oh, yeah. I was, Tom had asked me to do some stuff on his Mule Variations album. You played harp, right? Yeah, I did. Yeah, yeah.

stuff on his Mule Variations album. He played harp, right? Yeah, I did. Yeah, yeah. And so we're hanging out in Northern California, and my wife Marla and Tom's wife Kathleen were hanging out. And this was, the studio was very near where Tom lives, the Prairie Suns studio. Yeah.

And Marla said, listen, what do you think the idea of Tom producing an album on john he could be home every night take care of the kids you know yeah and kathleen said you know that would be a great idea so all of a sudden we you know it was in our laps to do something and out came wicked grin and it was uh the best-selling record of any that I've ever done. Oh, yeah? Yeah. It's still selling. That's great. I was in LA about three years ago.

I was up for a Grammy. For which record? Oh, for Rough and Tough? Rough and Tough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it didn't win and whatever. But Bug Music was having a party, and I went over there with my wife, Marla, Bug Music was having a party, and I went over there with my wife Marla, and we're hanging out, and there's T-Bone Burnett and all these guys who I'd met over the years.

And there's Jeff Bridges, and Jeff Bridges walks right up to me and says, man, Wicked Grin is one of my favorite records of all time. And Marla looks up at him and says, you'll always be Starman to me. Oh. Because she nailed it. That's hilarious. He's a player. Oh, yeah. He's, I mean, that movie was phenomenal.

Oh, it was really good. What was it called again? The Heart, some crazy heart? Crazy Heart. Yeah, that was something, huh? You could see that guy. You know that guy. Do you feel like you get the respect, though? It seems like the blues community loves you, and that you get the respect, you get the

Hall of Fame. I'm in the blues Hall of Fame. Who knew? And you've certainly gotten nominated for Grammys a lot. I'm sorry you didn't win one. I did win one. For a collection? Yeah.

Yeah. Back in 83. Yeah. As the guy handed it to me, he says, if the horn falls off, it can be replaced for $75. That's what he said? That's what he said. As he's handing it to you? Yeah.

And you did the search for Robert Johnson, right? Right. Yeah. That was intense. Yeah. Mississippi, Alabama. He went down there? Tennessee. Yeah. Texas. Yeah. That was intense. Yeah. Mississippi, Alabama. You went down there? Tennessee.

Yeah. Texas. Yeah. This was an English film crew that had really done their homework. Uh-huh. And were you the host or the guide? I was the host, guide, on camera, no script. Yeah.

Chris Hunt was the producer for, uh, it was for Channel 4. Yeah. In England. And, um, Kaz Gorham was the director and we went to all these places where they had been a year before and, and, uh, scouted out locations and people. Um, and there I was on camera with these guys

and I didn't know what to say half the time but it came off and You just engaged with it? Yeah, I got right into it because I realized it wasn't going to be about selling his soul to the devil or something stupid. It was really who he was and where he traveled. Did you know all that stuff?

I knew bits and pieces, but I found out way more than I ever thought I'd know. Did it move you? Yeah, big time. There were guys that had gone to school with Robert, old girlfriends of his. No kidding. I mean, feeling connected like that was like really intense. Did you ever hear those, those ones that they slowed down?

Did you, like the songs? Like somebody said that they were, like I went down. Somebody told me that. I don't believe it. Yeah, I don't believe it.

But whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. Yeah, it's weird. You know, everybody was going to fool around with stuff that can never be really corroborated, so. Sure, it's just like, it is what it is, man. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no. Yeah, it's weird. You know, everybody was going to fool around with stuff that can never be really corroborated. Sure. It's just like, it is what it is, man.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those were the songs, the recordings that moved me. Yeah. Big time. It's interesting to me because I listen to even all the records that you do, up to the present, up to 2014, is that there's there's honesty to your blues that you know i don't hear anywhere else and you're like one of the few guys doing it

do you feel like it's a responsibility you just love doing i just love doing i feel so lucky you know to be still happening and yeah and rocking and my wife Marla is like somebody that really helps make it happen. I'm a real Luddite when it comes to computers and smartphones and stuff. I'm a dummy. Oh, yeah. And she's right on top of it and takes care of stuff that, you know, I. Oh, good. Yeah, I'm a lucky guy.

Where are you living now? I live in Jersey City. Okay. We've been there for 22 years. And what happened to your gold top? I gave it to a guy named Jimmy Thackeray, who played with a band called the Nighthawks. And haven't seen it since. I was told, man, that thing is worth $100,000.

A 1959 gold Les Paul. That's a reissue, a new reissue from Gibson. Yeah, those are beautiful. Yeah, what's that other one, that other weird Gibson that you had on the cover of, you're like in the grass. Oh, right. With that corner. It was a guitar that belonged to Felix Cavalier at Atlantic.

We had one afternoon to do this photo shoot, and I didn't have my guitar with me. And I go, why don't you use this one? It's a wild-looking guitar. What was that thing? It's a Barney Kessel model. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, look, man, it was great talking to you.

Oh, Mark, what a pleasure. All right, folks. I hope that was interesting. Go listen to some John Hammond. It'll blow you away. And don't forget, if you want a signed copy of Waiting for the Punch, go to podswag.com slash punch. That's P-O-D-S-W-A-G dot com slash punch. And if you're in Seattle, come on out to Third Place Books in Seward Park on Saturday, November 11th at 7 p.m. for our final book event of the year.

I can't play any guitar right now because it's too early in the morning. Boomer lives! It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday,

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