WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 862 - John Dwyer

Episode Date: November 8, 2017

Whether you call his band Thee Oh Sees, Oh Sees, or OCS, there's no denying John Dwyer's prolific musical output. From garage bands in Providence to noise rock in San Francisco to his current jam in Los Angeles, John has been doing it his own way, including the creation of his own music label, to churn out an abundance of albums. John talks with Marc about the music he makes, Ty Segall, Mitch Hedberg, Cuba, David Bowie, Iggy Pop, rock and roll drug casualties, and what it was like to play a concert where a hole opened up in the floor. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing with cannabis legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category.

legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! store and a cast creative all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck? What's happening? My name is Mark Maron. This is my podcast. Welcome to it.

Today on the show, I talk to John Dwyer. John Dwyer is the front man, the man, sometimes the only guy. I don't know. It's a complicated thing with John Dwyer. His band, The OCs, puts out records as OCs, sometimes as OCs spelled O-C-S. He's been in other bands. He's got his own label, but he's the real deal, man. That new OCs record, or is it The OCs? OCs, O-C-S, that goes way back.

And then The OCs is a good bulk of the records like the last two last year uh weird exits and an odd entrances both great uh were out as as the ocs and now he just released another one in august uh by just OCs. So, yeah, and his label is Castleface Records. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because it's all pretty interesting stuff. It's all good. The last couple of records are great.

They're all good. I mean, there's been a lot of people in and out of his bands back in the day, back in San Francisco, going way back, going way back. I think they were, we'll talk about it all. There was a lot of different names, but the OCs is really what John is known for. And Ty Siegel is a big fan. That Bay Area crew. Sarah the Painter was back in SF back in the day when they were uh coming on that the dryer experience he's an event man he's a he's a he's a marking post of something original

so i talked to him today that was a hell of an intro i don't usually do that big an intro uh seattle can i tell you to please come on out to third place records in seward park this saturday november 11th at 7 p.m i'll be there with brendan signing copies of waiting for the punch words to live by from the wtf podcast it's our last book event of the year so we hope to see you all in seattle wtfers we hope to see you all there also i have a correction to make like i'm really hung up on this shit but uh the last episode those of you who listened to me ramble on in the beginning about fried scallops and cioppino at a place that may be called joe's i was mistaken i is i was mistaken and i've been there a lot it's called Jack's Fish Spot in Pike Place Market behind a fish seller.

So that's that. Jack's. I've corrected myself. I don't know if I'll get there, though. I got one day, man. I got one day in Seattle. Then I'm back at it. I could stay longer, really.

Because it seems that I'm not in this episode of GLOW. Seems like I got a few days off. But I got some things going on. It's a sad day around here, man. Today, like, you know, things are going all right. The world is, you know, still ending. But Buster's gone again. Buster ran out the door last night,

and I don't know what to do. I mean, I can just walk around and call his name so much, but I always get the feeling that he's gone for good. Anytime a cat gets out, I'm sure it's over, but it's been 24 hours. No, it hasn't. It hasn't, actually. Maybe he'll come back.

All I can do is wait call out his name buster kitten but i don't know what the fuck to do man you know you have these cats my old guys they don't even try to get out anymore and i was looking at something i had some shit in the driveway i held the door open just a little too long and i just saw him you know just worm by and wander out and it was too late. So, fuck. I just have to accept that if that's the life he wants or if he got eaten, that's... What can I do?

I'll go out and look around. I'll keep calling his name and hopefully he'll come back. So fucking sad, man. I mean, you know, there are sadder things, but just, you know, there's just things you don't need. I don't need my cat to be gone. I don't need one of my cats to disappear. It just fucking stinks.

I've had a lot of them go. Lafonda and Monkey are fine. Big Head with the big balls, he's around. He might have chased Buster off. Scaredy Cat, he's been around. I've been feeding him sometimes twice a day. I don't know if he's scared Buster off. Buster's a, he's a greenhorn out there.

He doesn't have chops. He doesn't have the wild chops. He's got no game out there. Maybe they'll all come back, but I got him inside when he was about two months old. So I don't know what he's capable of. He's a smart fucker. Not smart enough to, you know, outrun a pack of coyotes. But I don't know.

Maybe it's innate. Maybe he can handle himself. I always think the worst. I hope he comes back. Buster! Buster! The last time he got out, I could hear him squeal. He has a weird squeal.

Buster! Buster! Fucking sad. buster buster fucking sad so what's happening i'm going to uh yeah we're going up to seattle seattle i love seattle i i used to like it even more i used to just have fantasies about keep going north just keep going north north of se on upward, out into the islands, out into the water. Get away. Go to where it's just poetry all the time and dampness and creeping clouds and darkness and beautiful, brisk water with sea animals. Yeah, freedom, man.

My house is falling down. It's falling apart. I got to make a decision, man. My house is falling down. It's falling apart. I got to make a decision, man. I got to get out before the whole thing crumbles or do something. It's a tiny house. I know this garage is mythic. I know this garage is where everything turned around and my life changed and it's got its own sort of reputation.

But I think we got to accept that maybe maybe i'm the component is that possible that i'm the component that makes it good not necessarily the structure that i'm in is that possible is it i don't know man i guess i i wish i had more to say i think i'm a little i'm a little broken up about the cat you know i, I tried to pretend. I pretend to be a tough guy. I pretend like I can just dismiss it. Like, hey, man, you know, this is just the way it goes.

Sometimes these cats, they hang out. Sometimes they don't. But I was getting to like that guy. You guys have been through this with me once already. But I was getting ready. I was getting used to that guy. I liked him. And if he doesn't come back i'll be sad so i'll just have to see if he comes back it's weird you just don't need

added sadness in this day and age so i think we can get on with john dwyer now uh dwyer has a new album out memories of a cutoff head it's coming out november 17th under the band name ocs ocs he released an album under the band name ocs earlier this year called orc he releases records him and ty siegel are like the record releasing mad men they're very similar in that way and i and i don't know i would think that Dwyer is Ty's mentor to some degree. That's how I felt it. That's how I see it. They both live down the street from me.

And when I listened to all the Dwyer stuff, the evolution of it, like it's good, man. It's good. And he's a mile a minute, dude, active brain. For those of you who don't like when I talk, this one's for you. For those of you who like when I talk, that's all right. Just ride it out. Dwyer's got a lot to say. He goes.

It's me and John Dwyer. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now.

Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big

corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Spencer and the Children. Do you know that record? Jeremy Spencer was the other guitar player in the first version of Fleetwood Mac. He was the Elmore James freak, right? And this record, I just saw it yesterday over Permanent, and I'm like,

what the fuck is this? Permanent, man. It's like going to a crack cocaine store. And it turns out it's this record that he did in 1972 after he joined the Children of God cult. So it's Jeremy Spencer, that guitar player who played with Peter Green, and these people from the cult. They're the backing band. You've, that guitar player who played with Peter Green and these people from the cult.

They're the backing band. Yeah, I think so. You gotta give it to old school cults because they always had a band. Like, that's a problem. Like, you know, I don't feel like

a lot of these cults nowadays are actually getting out there with their rock. Yeah, they need some more music. I would love to see a cult doing like electronic music now. At least let's upgrade. An electronic cult.

Yeah, just like techno, techno cult or something. I guess you're right. I think in the 60s that the music was so integrated into the message of transcendence that it was almost necessary. Yeah, just like techno cult or something. I guess you're right. I think in the 60s that the music was so integrated into the message of transcendence that it was almost necessary. Yeah, we don't have that so much anymore. I don't think so anymore.

Like, the entryway was the music. It's hard to imagine Katy Perry in like a polygamist cult scenario. It doesn't work. That's like an immediate satisfaction kind of music. Oh, it's all about the bread. It's all about the, you know what I mean? It's mean it's not about the i'm sure she's a nice lady i don't know yeah no but yeah but have you had her on no i have not i don't know katie perry i don't know anything about her i have been listening to adele records and lord records amen they're both

really interesting they are right there but they're they're the exception to the rule i would say i guess so i remember when i heard lord i was i was like i'm fucking surprised i like this because someone was like you haven't heard it i was like no and they played for me i was like and i don't like shit anymore i'm like i'm just i mean when i see something i like i really like it you know so it's always a pleasure to see like a band i don't know like finally yeah but i've been just doing it for so long i see so much music that when i hear something like that that's actually quite popular i surprise myself because i'm like, oh, an old man actually can

like this music, you know, like it's cool. I can dig it. She goes pretty deep, I think. She's just interesting. That's the bottom line. It's not just the same old same old. It goes a long way for me. To have somebody being innovative or odd. Or like even earnest. You know what I mean?

She was kind of dorky right out of the gate. Right, right. Yeah. So I don't, like, I'm trying to figure out where, like, I know exactly how I got turned on to you. Like, I somehow or another, being the old man that I am, I miss some chunk of music, you know, somewhere between, like, 1998 and, you know, three years ago. It was kind of a terrible time.

But you were very prolific during that time hey dude i don't have a job and then i go down to i i'm someone turned me on to ty siegel and i guess it was lance when ty was still working up at the other old the old permanent and then people started mentioning your name and then i got i think the album i came in on was the one with the all the eyes and teeth on the cover floating coffin yeah floating coffin so. Yeah, Floating Coffin. So that's where I start with you, and then not unlike a lot of musicians I talk to, I try to do a little research, and I'm like, oh, fuck. There's a lot.

There's like 100 other records. Yeah, I apologize. No, no, I apologize. I am personally one of those people that people are like, how many records have you used? And then they're like, jeez, that's a whole lot of salary for me to spend on records. But then you sent me a lot of good records.

I encourage them to steal it off the internet. If it's too much, I'm like, just go to Pirate Bay. It's there. But where'd you grow up? I grew up in Rhode Island. Really? What part? I was born in Riverside, Rhode Island, which is just kind of like a little trashy waterfront

community. It's kind of awesome. I have a lot of early memories from there. And then my mom moved over to Rumford. We lived on this river, the 10-mile river over there. And then I moved to to rumford we lived on the this river the 10 mile river over there and then i moved to north providence and that's where i started getting into music i saw like uh people from risd because i was there i was i was doing i started doing stand up on the road doing one-nighters around that area i did yeah periwinkles in providence oh wait

in davos square fucking a yeah i remember that joint see that was one of those spots when i was a kid i would ride by and i'd be like what goes on in there's a strip club i don't know i never i never got to go to any comedy until i was just about to move out to san francisco so i was probably like 18 19 when i started how old are you now i'm 42 all right so i'm 53 they stole my car in providence yeah that sounds about right yeah and i did shows in like melody i grew up in cranston rhode Cranston Bowl. I believe that's where the bouffant was born. There's like certain hairstyles that like the women there still are rocking.

I did a show at the Cranston Bowl. I remember. A bowling alley in Cranston. Yeah, yeah. Jesus Christ. Yeah, that's pretty hardcore. It's like doing a clan rally or something. You're like, I've been all the way to the bottom.

Exactly. Well, they book out these one-nighters, you know. So somebody just booked a joint. Well, there were subcontractors. That was the way the the bottom. Exactly. Well, they'd book out these one-nighters, you know. So somebody just booked the joint. Well, there were subcontractors. That was the way the business worked there. You'd work with these companies that would book one-nighters at these places that wanted to do a comedy night. So you'd just show up. That's awesome.

Comedy is good like that, though. You guys can set up shop real quick. And you know what? People like to have, oh, I'm sure it's got to be a bruiser, too. But if you can get somebody laughing, then you got them for the night. You know what I mean? If you hold them, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But the reason I remember Cranston is I had, there was a sort of a monumental horror show. I used to do this joke about it. Cranston was a rough town. But no, they were fine. It was packed. And the first night was always good when they do a comedy night because everyone in town would come. But I did a joke about a plane crash. And some woman screamed, you you know don't talk about plane

crashes it was like that see that to me that's like my mom right there like she will be the person like i'll be sitting next to her and she'll just yell out and i'll be like jesus mom she'll say exactly yeah but i knew exactly what it was because why would it be that like she lost somebody in a plane crash so i had to deal with that did you just lose somebody no no yes oh she did she did yeah no no no you didn't know but like she did and it was one of those moments where i was having all the time as a fucking comedian everybody what are the odds dude my son's deaf like no no i mean plane crash pretty extreme yeah i thought i had you know what are the odds yeah and i just it was a

horrible moment of silence your way out of it i just said all right i'll just do my cancer stuff now nobody has cancer thank god well that cancer is a little more family died of cancer yeah moment of silence. You dug your way out of it? I just said, alright, I'll just do my cancer stuff now. Nobody has cancer, thank God. Well, cancer's a little more accessible. My whole family died of cancer. A little more accessible. Everybody knows it. That's right. So you're in Providence. You're like, what kind of life do you live? And your dad's not around? My dad is up in Massachusetts.

My mom had me when she was 18. My dad was much older, so they didn't last long. But they're cool. I don't think they... Where in Massachusetts? He lives in Rehoboth, which is like right on the border of uh like rhode island it's not you know we're not like 40 square miles yeah yeah yeah so it's like you're a new england guy really yeah i grew up full new england like uh i didn't you know lobster rolls clam bakes yeah yeah stuffies yeah all that shit uh caw hogs i mean like family guy the cartoon is basically based on my town and there's all these things little bits and i'm like Family Guy the cartoon is basically based on my town

and there's all these things little bits in there and I'm like I know what that is I know what that is right you know I think that dude probably went to school

out there or something Jimmy's Fraps all that yeah it was uh New York System Weenies where uh this guy like

builds hot dogs like it'll be like right next to his armpit when he's serving you but people you know it's funny I bring bands through there like a kid

you know I brought these like Aussies uh this band Total Control through there and through rhode island recently no this was years ago but it's like showing them little bits of things like you guys gotta try these hot dogs and then be like oh before you moved out you mean no this was this was after i'd already lived in san francisco but like watching like australians eat like the thing from problems oh i've never had anything like this sure you can have that experience when you go to

australia yeah you have to fight a shark. So what was the scene? So I'm trying to picture what year it would be when you're sort of coming alive. I moved in like 98, so it was probably like 96-ish. And the bands coming through from RISD were like who? At the time, the bands that, when I was young, the first bands I was seeing that were really good out of Providence were like Lightning Bolt, who have been around for fucking ages. There was that band.

I mean, there were a lot of bands. There were the Leo brothers like Ted Leo Ted yeah Ted Leo was his brother Danny Leo was going to school there so I lived above Danny

in a warehouse really yeah he's great he does bands still it was like Arab on Radar and there was a band called Dung Beetle really early on

I can't remember Dung Beetle Drop Dead it was from Warwick Rhode Island one of the biggest like grind, hardcore, political punk bands. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I grew up watching these guys at all-ages shows when I was a kid. All-ages shows.

I hear a lot about those. Six Figure Satellite. Thank God for all-ages shows. Jesus Christ, I wouldn't be sitting here right now. Yeah, right. Spawned a whole generation of music guys. I'd own a bank if it wasn't for going to see Flam at Club Babyhead when I was 16. Club Babyhead?

Club Babyhead. I can't believe you never performed there. Every band I mentioned. It was after me. I talked to that guy, Bob Weston from Shellac. I run into him sometimes at festivals. He's a super nice guy. And somehow Club Babyhead came up,

and he had the same reaction. He's a little bit older than me, I think. So I had gone to see a band he was in when I was a kid, and it's the same reaction from everybody. They're like, everybody goes, like they'd forgotten about it. And they're like, Club Babyhead. Jesus Christ.

Like everybody's just like, what a shit hole. I'm like, yeah, it was like a really small room. Just like a black, small box with like, like the bouncer be like, come on, come on, come on. Just like shoving kids in. And then they just- Little punk rock kids. But I saw, yeah, I saw like the cramps there on Halloween one year or right around Halloween.

Wow. Yeah, tons of metal bands. There was a place called The Living Room there. I remember The Living Room. The Living Room. They probably might have had comedy. They had like Flotsam and Jetsam. And that was in Rhode Island?

I may have seen Slayer there really early on. I remember the- In Providence, yeah. In Providence. Yeah, and then it's moved on to a bigger joint. I don't know if it's still there or or not but uh because when I was in boss real small yeah when I was in Boston there was a lot going on musically and now all those places are gone like there was that whole area down by the Causeway

Street where there were lofts and there were bands that played in the lofts yeah and then there was like the rat scholar was still around and Storyville and TT to bears and all those joints are gone now I don't have TTS or I think the like the Ratskeller was still around and Storyville and TT to Bears. All those joints are gone now? I don't know if TT's are. I think the Middle East is still there. I don't know if TT's. I remember just going to that joint.

I think I got in younger than I was supposed to be, so I was just standing in the corner the whole time. I was really young then. In Somerville? Central Square, I think. Just keep my head down and I won't get kicked out of the show. Yeah, it was like Sebador, like hairy pussy. Sebador.

They would never play in Providence because it was just a small town. So, I mean, a lot of bands came through Providence. We end up in Boston all the time to see shows. I actually was going back to play for the first time in like seven or eight years. We're playing in Boston next month. Yeah. I'm already getting emails from dudes like, dude, you're fucking dead when you get hit. Like Bostonites just being like, I'm going to rip your face.

I'm like a little scared, you know? Why? I mean, it's in a loving way, but you know how Boston i mean it's it's a it's it's a in a loving way but you know how boston should be like oh yeah they're like just like you fucking queers i'm gonna come over there like oh yeah yeah yeah yeah so wait so you were like the first band so you're going you're a kid in in providence and you're running around in providence is pretty heavy but i don't know if it cleaned up since since i hear it's nicer now more more mob run when i was a kid right maybe or at least back then, more on its sleeve like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You'd see the mayor walking down this. Buddy Cianci was the mayor when I was a kid who'd been convicted, put away a double felon, and then got out and they reelected him promptly upon getting out of jail. His daughter used to come to our house and buy drugs off my neighbor. Just such a small town. Right. I remember I never wanted her around

because she would party so hard. I was afraid she was going to die at our house. I was like, if she dies here, we're dead. I was like, this guy's terrifying. And she was also a very commanding person, so she'd be like, I'm going to party here. And that was it. You're like, okay, well, I'm going to leave.

At least I could be like, I wasn't there. Is the mayor's kid? Yeah. Yeah. That's a horrible feeling when you're partying with somebody you know they could die you just don't want to be around she scared the shit out of me she was more friends with my roommate at the time but i remember being like dude this is not a good idea man you know like having like it's like having like cops at a party yeah i don't know this feels like this could go

either way yeah and you were already playing by then no man like i didn't really play roommates so you're out of the house, you were out of your house? I moved out of my mom's when I was 17. My mom, I had a half-brother that she had with another man that was pretty disabled, and like things just got like a little tumultuous. Like there was like, you know, like she needed to take care of my brother, but she still does. But we're cool. Yeah, you're good.

Me and my mom are tight, yeah. So you're out on your own at 17, you're living the life? Yeah, like I just wanted to, you know, basically at the time I just didn't want to go. I got out of high school, I didn't want to go to college, I wanted to do drugs. And I was selling drugs. What were the drugs? Mostly just like acid and weed. Your acid guy?

Yeah, like never got in. I never liked drinking when I was a kid, which kept me out of harder drugs. I always felt like the gateway for things like cocaine and stuff would always be like booze. Because you'd be like, fuck it, why not? You know, so I got lucky. There was a big wave of heroin that came through providence and i somehow got real lucky and didn't get into that i think i tried it twice and i was like this isn't i was like i threw up why did i yeah i didn't like puking yeah and i remember being i was always like more like let's

get this party pumping and then like everybody'd be like nodding out i'm like this shit sucks i'm the same way it was all cocaine but booze you you know. But acid, so you were like a... You're a comedian. There's very... I can't think of any real junkie comedians. It doesn't seem like those two. Oh, there's some. Yeah, yeah.

Sure. There's just the slower guys. Oh, no. Yeah, well, the guys, you know how it goes. Those people learn how to work on that shit. It makes them match. Yeah. You know what I mean?

It's professionalism. Yeah, there was. The real junkies know how to ride it out. But there was a lot of comics that needed to do something before they got on. I guess it's a heavy set, man. Yeah. Well, Steve Kravitz used to get off stage and he'd wander around going like, was I on yet? That's like the highlight of the night right there.

Yeah. Was I on? How was I? Well, no. A lot of guys worked pretty. Like Mitch was pretty. Mitch Hedberg was pretty heavy. Yeah.

But he was also the exception of the rule across the board. Like that guy, I always looked at him and been like, this guy's on everything. Yeah. He had totally golden. But it's weird when you listen to his shit. Like, you know, the simplicity of it and the sort of childlike innocence to the way he observed things. You know, heroin definitely, you know, quieted things down for that dude. I mean, I remember the first time I heard him, there was nobody like that guy.

Yeah. He was a total original. And it holds up. I mean, like, it's weird that's so rare that comic comedy holds up you know like music a lot of music it's totally true man like you hear like lenny bruce now and it i mean he's oh you got to get a glossary yeah you've got to know you've got to put him into something it's a totally different time his anger was from a different place yeah he'd mix yiddish in and all the political references were what they were in show business you definitely need

a glossary for like footnotes for the comments thing. Fuck yeah, man. If you listen to that Berklee concert, you're like, hold on. Pause it. Stop it again. What the fuck is he talking about? It's like the Ulysses of comedy. Exactly. It's a lot like that. So when did you start with, oh, let's talk about the acid though.

Like were you one of those guys that could do it three, four times a week? Yeah. I mean, when we were selling, we were taking it quite a bit. I remember. Was it good? Yeah. I mean, we were getting blotter, mostly from Boston. We would drive up and get off a guy that was supposedly friends with a chemist.

You know how it was with that kind of shit. Was MIT involved? Yeah, always. Any time I did a new drug, they'd be like, this is called DMT. It's like a naturally occurring substance in your body that this guy created at a lab. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then acid went away for so long, and now it's making a comeback. Is it?

Like, I remember, yeah, I mean, maybe you're of that age now acid went away for so long, and now it's making a comeback. Is it? Like, I remember, yeah, I mean, maybe you're of that age now where nobody offers you acid anymore. I've been sober a long time. Yeah, good for you. Yeah. I remember thinking, like, man, I haven't heard about acid in a long time. And, like, that day, some guy with, like, a tie-dye and frizzy hair was like, do you want some doses? And I was like, it's back.

It's back. Yeah. Here we go. Turns out you can intake acid as a 40-year-old man and get away with it, but you just need a good, comfortable place. Right. But did you do it? Yeah, I tried. Me and man and get away with it, but you just need a good, comfortable place. Right. But did you do it? Yeah, I tried. Me and my girlfriend took it in Hawaii.

It was really nice. Yeah? Hawaii. I mean, come on. Sure. You're okay. I'm beach in Kauai. Yeah. I was like, this is-

What could go wrong? Yeah, I wasn't watching TV. Right, yeah. Yeah, you weren't in a city. I wasn't at a house party on Halloween or something. Yeah, not a lot of people talking to you. That could turn you evil. The only other person I saw, I'm pretty sure, was also on acid.

She was digging through the sand for four hours, and I was like, she's cool. We're fine. She looked over and gave me a thumbs acid. She was like digging through the sand for like four hours. And I was like, she's cool. We're fine. She looked over and gave me a thumbs up. I was like, there you go. You stay over there. Good luck. Yeah, yeah.

Hope you find it. Hope you don't find any money. But what was it, like a 12-hour run? No, you know, it's funny. Like, I don't know if it's because I'm older, but my metabolism has definitely slowed down. But I remember it being way more of an obligation. But that was across the board with everything. Right.

So like, you know, I remember you take acid and nine hours later, you're like, all right, all right, for fuck's sake. What is this, an all-day affair? Let me down. I'll never be able to work again. You're having these thoughts like, if this is it, I'm fucked. I can never go home again. And this was speedier than I remembered,

but it was really enjoyable. My girlfriend had never taken it before, and it was really funny to watch her. What were the visuals, just trails and lights? It was actually pretty mild, but she was pretty hilarious. It was like a really perfect day, too. We'd had really nice days the whole trip, but it was the last day we were there, and it was one of those pink sunsets. Oh, yeah.

And it was like last- Wood Island? We're on Kauai. That's where I go. That's great. It's fast. We just went down there. Like, yeah.

Unfortunately, the last time I went down there was right after Trump was inaugurated, So I was pretty sure we were going to be traveling back to just blood in the streets. You know, Hawaii's been on the right side of history for this whole thing. Yeah. No, I definitely. They're fighting back, which makes me so psyched because Hawaii's got that quality. They're like, fuck that. But if I, like, because of my brain, if it just goes the wrong way, the idea of being on an island away from everything.

You have to stay there. You have to stay there. And what could go wrong on an island when it turns on itself? You could be on, I don't know, I can't even think of a bad island. No, no, absolutely right. Most islands are pretty good,

I think. They're pretty good. They're pretty. It's beautiful. That's where you go in a zombie apocalypse because you've got water on all four sides.

Sure, and you hope that the people on the island don't turn zombie. I think that's where my brain always goes right to that. What if these people turn? You just got to go in a clear house.

You go in with your machete and sort it out. Oh, yeah. How long do you stay down there? We go down there for maybe a week or so every year. That's about it, right? Ten days is about it. We try and mix it up with places. We went to Cuba last year. How was that?

Have you been down there? No, man. It's a trip, man. Whenever I have to avoid American Airlines to get any place, it's sort of like, that's a step I don't want to deal with. Do you have to go out of Mexico? No, we actually did it legit early on when jeff blue did yeah we didn't do jeff blue we did fuck i can't remember what airline it was now probably like united was like a bunch of airlines were like just for a vacation small but it was like lots of cubans were coming

over and like going back with like like the i swear i got the plane on the ride back was full of hd tvs like everybody had these like big flat screen like everybody yeah was like finally we can go to the states and get a goddamn flat screen and bring it back home like it's crazy the things that you know the things that they have that they do really well there yeah the shit that we have that these people want is like shit that well what was your experience there what did you what did you feel it was really really hot um it's a beautiful place yeah there are a few things about that kind of blew my mind like one thing in particular i was curious about how music would be there i know that like you know jazz and cuban music are very you know from there that's their pride and they

obviously do it better than cigars yeah cigars yeah but uh the music is crazy i didn't see i didn't hear not once any rock and roll or any rap or any radio music from here no contemporary pop r&b nothing just just human Jazz. Yeah, we saw one night an improv band play at a place called Zorro's that was in Havana. That was really... They were actually amazing.

But it was crazy that none of that shit has permeated over there. I've heard stories about like they're being punks there. Yeah. But it seems like a place that'd be really ripe

for that kind of shit to be like, hey guys, this is ACDC. And they're like, holy shit. Did you bring some stuff for people to find any kids? No, I didn't think to. Actually, when I was originally going over there, I was like, hey guys, this is ACDC. And they're like, holy shit. Did you bring some stuff for people to find any kids? No, I didn't think to. Actually, when I was originally going over there,

I was like, maybe we could play a show there. And when we left, I was like, we're not playing a show there. I was like, that just doesn't feel right to me. And I was like, I'll play anywhere but Cuba. I was like, I don't know if they're really, like, A, I don't know if they, I think they'd probably fucking hate it

or they'd be like, what the fuck is this shit? Yeah, I've been starting to get in, I've been getting into jazz lately and I haven't really hit that, the whole Cuban thing that much yet. But it's definitely its own thing it's really i mean it's about seeing it live too i think like there's a lot of people playing on the streets down there like at night there was just a parking lot that would have shows right now these guys would bring a pa in yeah and it would just be neighborhood people hanging out i mean there's like it's so hot there

and people have so little that once night would fall, people just comes out of their houses and sit on the street. Right. In Havana in particular, in Havana. Right. You know, the city's got really crazy. Like a building had collapsed like a block down the street

from where we were maybe like a couple months before we were there. And it was just still on the road. Yeah. And they just put like a couple cones around it and then people start throwing their trash in it. So this was this massive trash heap with like- Of rubble and trash.

But the other thing that kind of blew my mind about Cuba that was pretty awesome was that I swear to God, there were pedigree homeless dogs. So they'd be like a beagle, like 100% beagle, just fucking filthy with like dreads just being like, hey, buddy, like, do you have any snacks? And I'd be like, that's... I deserve respect. Yeah. Or like a dachshund. Really?

I was like, when you see like a homeless dachshund, like that dog's out there fending for itself. Why do you figure that was? I have no idea. I don't know if people brought dogs there back in the day you know but i mean there's a lot of homeless animals there i mean people just don't have a lot of money there so they probably can't really like afford it they're taking care of their family more than themselves but you stay kind of in like casa particular which is people's homes yeah for like 20 bucks a night you can stay in a nice joint they have like a bedroom set aside with an ac and if it's like a

real great thing did you rent an old car no well we took we took old cars from city to city because i i loathe taking a bus you know it's like a weird affliction i have sure i can't get on the bus buses are a little uh sad it's you've got to be the b yeah you're either you're the bus person you're not i can i can fly i can take a canoe but for some of the bus has always been like i'm like nah i'm cool man but we would take a canoe down the coast it'd be like a hundred bucks to take a cab for like six hours you know you'd like drive to the next city and then the two times we did that it was a guy with like an old 50s car that was like totally refurbished yeah but but their style and they're like manufacturing their own parts you know like they're they're not like outsourcing any of

this shit they're making everything there they had to it's amazing yeah exactly that's exactly the story of that whole place is they've the necessity has driven them to where they are you know like the things they make and they're good at but that dude would drive us to the city and then he'd be like what are you going back and we'd be like oh going back in like three days like you know fuck it i'll hang out and he's like just call me in three days i'd be like you're just gonna hang out in this other city he's like i got friends here like people are really chill don't keep the meter running yeah i'd be like yeah like i don't do it on my account we could just catch another car he's like no you know my my ex-girlfriend's here i'm cool so he was willing to wait twice

two separate guys just came and they're like oh fuck it i'll drive they would just they would We could just catch another car. He's like, no, you know, my ex-girlfriend's here. I'm cool. So he was willing to wait for $100. Twice, two separate guys just came, and they're like, ah, fuck it, I'll drive. Lock in. They would cab around that city for a few days. Oh, I get it. Yeah, yeah. Because it kind of works everywhere. So when you start playing in Providence, what are you playing?

What clubs you mean? Well, no, like what music? Oh, back in the day. Yeah. Because it seems like you've moved through a lot of stuff, and it seems that, to me, the album, not the last one, but the one right before the last one, Weird Exits, it seems like the production is a little cleaner,

and you've kind of fully integrated everything you've worked towards into it. Yeah, it's been a slow crawl to getting to this area of incorporating all the inspir all the uh like yeah there's some there's some noise there's some psych there's a little punk but the lyrically it's different the singing sounds cleaner just moving ahead a little bit every time right but the production is different right am i wrong that was chris woodhouse's last record that he did with us and uh you've been with him for years yeah me and him worked together for a long time and he uh he's just gotten, I mean, it's just like in anything, somebody who's gifted will, you know, in a perfect scenario, get better at what they do.

So he was getting better and better and better at recording, almost to a fault at points where, like, I would always be pushing back and be like, let's just dirty it up a little. Yeah, and he'd be like, oh. Just to see him, like, being bummed out, I'd be like, come on, man. I'm figuring this out. Stop dragging me back. You saved that for your pop project

you know but at the same time it made for clarification and things and also I think it helps with us get a little bit out to a wider audience

because not everybody's into like real like face banger well that's the weird thing like even if I talk to Ty and then I talk to who else do you know Cronin I talk to

I went to some older guys with both those guys we went to Medieval Times last night. What is that? I've had crazy medieval diarrhea all morning. No, don't eat at Medieval Times is all I'm saying.

Is that a theme place? Yeah, it's like knights in armor and shit. It was Charlie Muthart from Ty's band's birthday. Oh, that's where you went? Yeah. Well, that's the interesting thing because you knew both of them when they were kids and they both looked up to you and they both went very different directions

because when I- Oh, yeah. Everybody's branching out from the center of the stage. Well, Cronin, it's like he makes pop records, really. I mean, they're clean and they're produced like that. They're layered. They got hooks. That's his aesthetic.

Right. And Ty does everything that Ty does, right? Ty's very much his own thing. Right, but I think he definitely took your template right and Ty does everything that Ty does right Ty's very much his own thing right but I think he definitely took your template of how to engage

in music it was like San Francisco was really thriving at that exact moment so everybody was sort of like pulling inspiration

yeah I missed that whole thing we got really lucky at that time because there were just so many I mean there's still a lot of great shit

happening in Oakland and the Bay Area in general but at that time there was just like everybody was doing a band and all different kinds of music.

Well, let's get to there through, but the art rock element, like when you say that early on you were playing at MassArt, and that some of the noise stuff that you use, like that world of music, it was totally inaccessible, really, except to like a core group of weirdos. That's the more alienating it was, the more interested I was in it when I was a kid.

And that's how you started doing that kind of stuff? But I also have always had a real pop aesthetic myself. So I'd try and make a poppy version of this. I always loved metal, but my favorite metal bands were always the ones that had hooks, like Iron Maiden or some shit that's still very poppy. You're like, fucking, yeah. You were a metal kid?

Yeah, super into metal. I mean, I went to see all the metal shows. I don't know if it was out of what was available to me, You were a metal kid? Yeah, super into metal, super into, I mean, I went to see all the metal shows. They were the, I don't know if it was out of what was available to me, but that was a lot of the all-ages shows were metal and punk shows. Right. And I skateboarded, which I sucked at.

And at that time, they had sort of come together in a weird way. All that shit, like skaters were handing out tapes and shit. Even early rap as well. Yeah, yeah. Like Public Enemy got really huge and the young white crowd in Providence,

you know, like shit like- So you remember that shit like reaching over you know boundaries and stuff so what was the first what was the first band my first band was called Krang

and it was with this guy Jeff Rosenberg who later did a band called Pinker Brown with me that was the first band I did when I lived in San Francisco

that was a duo but me and him played with like one of the guys from Lightning Bolt was in that band for a while this girl Kara who Kara Hyde who I think she did a band called v for vendetta years later

like they all kind of went on to do their own things and moved all over the country yeah but that was kind of like a guitar angular guitar poppy rock band that was like my first foray into not just playing in my basement but playing live and learning and playing guitar you're playing guitar playing guitar yeah Playing guitar, yeah. And then I started playing, for about a year, I played in a band called Landed out there. Yeah.

That was a Vermiform that was sort of more experimental. Those guys are actually still playing every now and then. Vermiform? Vermiform, which was this band, Men's Recovery Projects label. Yeah.

Who were real, like, total weirdos. Like, original all the way. Like, they're all really funny and great

and talented guys and like what's a point of reference to the Sam McPheeters who's the guy who actually ran Verma form back in days is around down here now I think I think he lives in Southern California yeah and he is mostly these days doing like writing and art I think but he still does bands too he's just like one of those guys like a jack-of-all-trades but but also like he comes from like the smell school and like that kind of vibe of like all ages punk cheap right also like but not like political as well right but but but lyrical not complete noise or art not noise no it's like he had other bands too like uh but i mean he always it was political but

not noise no it was like and sort of tongue-in-cheek too like those guys had a lot of comedy in their band yeah they would dress up up really ridiculous and shit. It was always a different show. He would show up one time, he showed up and read the whole proclamation. Abraham Lincoln dressed as Lincoln. Right, right, right. And bored the shit out of a punk crowd.

I watched him do, he had a scroll, and he's like, and then the, and people are like, what the fuck is happening? And then the band played. But that, like, if you talk to Mike Watt and some of those other dudes. Dude, that guy's awesome.

He's the best. He's got best. Yeah. He's got his own language. Great guy. That dude is moving like at the fucking speed of light and all that.

But like, what we, what they call punk rock as a style was not what punk rock was when it was used as a genre term. Punk rock just,

it kind of was an umbrella term for anything outside the norm. Anything arty, anything weird. It's like people extending themselves

to the first time. because if you listen to the Minutemen, that's not like what you would call punk rock if you heard today. No. But that was term for anything outside the norm anything already anything weird extending them yeah because if you listen to the minute man that's not like what you would call punk rock if you heard today but that was what punk rock was it was just dudes just original fuck they want exactly yeah that was the answer it wasn't it wasn't so much a sound as an aesthetic right like you know what i mean so you kind of came up in that what was left of that a regular looking like you see some of those old punk bands it always blows my mind when you say like the weirdest i can't even think of one to reference right now but it's like the one of the weirder punk bands like you see some of those old punk bands it always blows my mind when you see like the weirdest I can't even think of one to reference right now but you see like

one of the weirder punk bands and you see a picture of them and they're just like fucking dudes that have like factory jobs and it's like what they did when they drank beer

was to play these punk songs in particular I guess Mike Watt and those guys you know it's like those dudes were a bunch of blue collar looking dudes and the music is

it's sort of it's hard to explain the Men and Men those records they're great they're a unique band and nobody ever really sounded they sort of it's hard to explain the Men and Men those records they're great they're a unique band and nobody ever really sounded they're like

it's like them you got like Per Ubu like these bands are you're like Per Ubu what is this where is that coming from but they seem to have launched a lot of like

Per Ubu that kind of all those bands made a million it's like what is it people I forget who made

the famous quote about the Velvet Underground it was like maybe Eno or somebody being like yeah nobody liked this band back in the day but everybody that ever heard them made a band like all these people hear their shit and that's kind of was it I forget who made the famous quote about the Velvet Underground I was like maybe Eno or somebody being like yeah nobody liked this band back in the day

but everybody that ever heard them made a band right like all these people hear their shit and that's kind of what it was for it was just like

liquid inspiration but like Pira Ubu doesn't that lead am I wrong to TV on the radio in a way you think sound wise yeah

I could see that a bit like really reaching forward vocals yeah yeah yeah I mean that Pira Ubu is just they're like a weird bird on their own.

And that dude's still around. Yeah, he's still playing shows as far as I know. I don't know. My bass player said he was working at Amoeba when they did an in-store and he said it was really,

actually, yeah, they are still playing because I met the drummer recently. He's got to be my age, man. But he said he said the guy was totally cool. He was told by his handler not to look him in the eye.

And Tim, my bass player, is like a real subdued, chill dude. He's like, you told me not to look him in the eye and tim my bass player is like a real subdued child he's like here he told me not to look him in the eye he's like he seems like he might be freaked out by a little a little like spectrum dude yeah like you know a little in a different world or something just like a commanding a band and everybody's like a little bit freaked out by we're like marky smith you know you get that guy that's like this is my 30th drummer and the drummer's like i don't know how long i'm gonna be here for you know like I am definitely like I'm friends with Mark Riley now

who was in the fall at the beginning yeah yeah and I've met Mark Marky Smith a bunch of times from playing with him back in the day we were label mates

yeah and they're both awesome dudes but like to hear he's the main guy in the fall Marky Smith was the main guy who like just like

has like I've got like four of their records because Ty was like no toys he trashed his bandmates and shit like if you read his biography it's just like a shit talking manifesto you're like what the fuck dude

but mark riley talking about him he's like i was like hey can you put me in touch with mark again i haven't seen him a long time and i want to like send him something and mark riley was like why that he's like that dude doesn't talk to me anymore i was like all right he's like very rare it'd be very rare if that dude got what was it about them that was so important they're much like the bands we were just talking about. Nobody sounded like them. And if they did sound like them, they were ripping them off. You know what I mean? It's just one of those bands that are completely original.

There are those bands that Ty likes, like Pink Fairies, Chrome, Hawkwind. Those are all bands that were innovators in those sounds. You know what I mean? Like Hawkwind. Who the fuck sounded like Hawkwind? Bud Hawkwind. Same thing with Motorhead. Like Lemme Split Off and them. Motorhead was the fastest, hardest band. You know what I mean like right Hawkwind who the fuck sounded like Hawkwind Bud Hawkwind same thing with Motorhead like Lemmy split off from them

yeah Motorhead was the fastest hardest band you know the band like they all did original things pioneers astronauts

they were like the grandfathers of these like subgenres that are branching off ever yeah because like the subgenres that you guys draw from Kraut Rock

and all that stuff like I kinda knew like someone years ago when I was young said you gotta listen to Cannes and I remember I had the ago when I was young said, you got to listen to Can. And I remember I had the tape when I was maybe in my 20s. And I'm like, I can't get there. I can't get it.

It's the only thing I'll never get sick of. I don't know what it is about that. Well, now I'm into it. I still can listen to fucking records over and over and over again. I have to stop myself and go on. I have to be like, oh, no, I'm listening to Sabbath for a month. Well, the same guy gave me Eisenstadt and Newbotton and that. Yeah, yeah.

That was somebody who was like, just try everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get out there. there this is raw horse this is crab genitals you're like all right fuck it i'll just eat it all exactly yeah and i those are all acquired tastes but you just described your buddy's like right anchovies but i had an open mind to it because when i was younger i mean i could walk into the residence i could walk into eno i could walk into fred frith john hassle that first wave of arty fuckers. But at the beginning, I just couldn't wrap my brain around it until fucking Lance and Ty. And this is recent.

But for me- Well, there's a resurgence. All these LPs are coming back. People are actively searching out these records. Right. Records cost 40 bucks a pop now. Some of them. Yeah. And Dan over at Gimme Gimme, he gets me into the sort of like the more

the quieter shit that of that that the the new the records that no one had ever heard before by bands that that were just never made you gotta love you gotta love those guys who are like uh curators guys and girls are just like uh hunters yeah like i i walk into permanent all the time lance will totally fuck me over yeah so i'll walk in just to say hi. I'll be like, I'm not buying anything. And he'll be like, oh, but dude. And he'll be like, wait, wait. And he'll pull up like two things from the counter. He's like, just listen to him.

That's all. It's like the guy giving you your first taste of smack. He's like, just smell it. Just have a whiff. You know what, dude? It always sounds better in the store. Yeah. Actually, now I'm of that age where if I like it in the store, I like it at home.

I finally know what the fuck I like. So when you started, you're just playing straight up like metal-y punk? No, I mean, it was really still pretty poppy. It took me a long time to get... No covers? No. Although, I think when I was a kid, I would have scoffed at that, but now I love a cover band. I swear to God, like I saw

years ago, I saw a Pink Floyd cover band and I fucking enjoyed this shit. When the fuck am I gonna see Pink Floyd doing like early 70s Pink Floyd? And they had a light show and they had Rototoms. They were playing like Dark Side of the Moon. It was great. They did it.

I'm into all that shit. I like all those classic rock bands and stuff. But my friend did a David Bowie cover band called Blowie years ago that was terrible, but really awesome. Yeah, yeah. Just like six dudes

sort of half-heartedly learning Bowie songs and then just like a guy in his underwear running out in the crowd. But it was kind of like a punk version. But it was really, I love that shit, you know? So when do you, like, so how many bands are you in

before you make the leap and go west? Well, that was a funny thing. It was in Providence. And did you do records? Are there records around that you can get? The first record I was on, I guess, was with Landed on Vermiform, Sam McFeeter's label. It was a 10-inch. That was the first vinyl. Oh, actually I guess, was with Landed on Vermiform, Sam McPheeter's label.

It was a 10-inch. That was the first vinyl. Oh, actually, no, that's not true. I did, before that, I was doing OCS, the original version of OCS, but that was just noise. Yeah. So I was doing, like, homemade instruments and shit like that, or, like, electronics.

What was that called? It was called OCS. That was, like, the original version of OCS, which was, like, the phonetic. And what drove you to noise? Like I said, when I was a kid, like anything that was more alienating, like that was like, it was like the,

in my mind, the obvious next step from punk and metal was to go into like hard noise. And I remember the first time I saw like Japanese noise bands, like Masana came over and played in Boston at the Playhouse. Yeah. It was like a totally inappropriate venue for this Japanese noise guy. There was like 30 people there,

but seeing this guy do his thing live was so exciting to me. And just original again. It was like post-music kind of in my mind, being like, not even music concrete, but just like really aggressive. Like this guy was like, he ran on the crowd and was like throwing tables at the crowd

and was actually a little bit scary. And like, I was like, I want to fucking do that. Performance art. Yeah, performance. And also like, there's like all those stories about those guys in japan in japan particularly there's a huge wave of this noise music early on there's like uh what's that uh hana tarash maybe like or was it i can't remember who was somebody like drove like a uh like got a bunch of people in a room and then drove a bulldozer through the wall while like everybody's like waiting for the performance to start likeizing the crowd. The bulldozer.

That was really punk to me. That should be a closer. Somebody should have died. You don't want to open the show. That wasn't the opening band. Now, the opening band was just a guy doing throat singing. But, you know, that was punk to me. But you knew, you must have known then,

did you feel like there was an affectation to it? Because you're a very skilled player and you're a skilled songwriter at this point. Not at the time. I know, but like- No, I sucked back then. But did you think you were going to pull back from that or that that was it for you? No, I always wanted to do different shit.

Early on, I played with hippie dudes. I played with guys just making beats. I mean, I never really gave a shit. I was always into playing with whoever wanted to play. It didn't matter where you were coming from or who you were. I love- That's what we'll be getting back into. I've been trying to get more back into the root of it.

That's why things are getting jammier with us live and stuff is because when I was a kid, especially with guitar and like synthesizers, when I first started playing, we would just jam. Right. And it was really, a lot of it was about doing drugs. I'm not going to lie. Right. Doing drugs to hang out and make music to do drugs.

Right. To, you know what I mean? Right. The Spaceman 3 vibe was totally on point where you just get high to make a song to listen to when you get high next time it was very that's that's j spaceman yeah it's fucking genius it's like i mean i mean it's maybe a bit shallow but it's fucking true so you got to give it a little bit they made some good records man that guy's still around like spinning records wearing a hockey jersey like i i don't do you know him i've met them a couple times like i met a i met a sonic

boom i think yeah we've played festivals with like those dudes do varying projects i'm not super familiar i'm not gonna lie yeah well he did that one he did a record store day release with that kid millionaire that drummer oh that guy's amazing yeah kid millions kid millions yeah he's from uh oneida yeah fucking fantastic back in a great super underrated band. Yeah. And that record's pretty wild. I saw them in Providence. They kind of blew my mind. Yeah, that band, they had like a huge American flag

that looked like they'd stolen it from like a car dealership that was like 100 feet across. Right. And they set that up and then the singer was like climbing on it and like ripping shit off the ceiling

of this club in Providence. Uh-huh. And I just remember being like, and then watching that drummer just like lay it down like nonce. That dude's a machine he's a badass he played for one time

at a festival he did a thing where he played drums for 10 hours straight oh my god yeah they're like he's playing he's still playing

and I was like I'll go see him in 6 hours I was like I don't need to fucking be there for the whole thing I want to see it when it loosens up it's like watching

Sting fuck you you're like I don't have all day like I'll can you call me 20 minutes before it's over and I'll come see the end yeah I want to see the closer

yeah the money shot yeah yeah just like a one china symbol Onida Onida was the name Onida Onida yeah. Just like one China symbol. Onida was the name? Onida. Onida. Yeah, it was the band.

Really good live. Onida. Yeah, he played in that. And it was like him and an organ player. Really nice dudes. Nerdy New York. Yeah. Like good, good New York music.

Yeah. New York should, in my opinion, always have the strongest shit because it's New York. It's where the Velvets came from. So many bands. And then like, you know, you want New York to be like, fucking that's where everybody should be making music where you're like, what is this? Is bands. And then you want New York to be like, fucking that's where everybody should be making music where you're like, what is this? Is that happening anymore?

I don't want to say. But I will say what I like there is very strong. But it's only because I have such high expectations of New York. Of the mythology of New York. Yeah, exactly. That city is romanticized. But it is.

I love going there and just walking down the street in the fucking snow. It's still good, yeah. If I could have the wherewithal to live there I'd be like I would love to make music here just to have that backdrop

but I don't think it's the same city anymore well it's just like most cities in America now are being sold you know no doubt and I don't even know

who lives in New York anymore and you were in San Francisco at the end of it yeah San Francisco I mean I lived in a house for nine years that was one of the best parts of my life and then had to move into a house I loathed for the

last two years in a neighborhood I didn't want to be in well people I wasn't excited to live with so you do the noise record when do you move there when do you go to move to SF in uh when I was 23 so it was in September I think it was like September 12th 1998 what was the first record there cool death of island raiders no it was I was doing a band called Pink and Brown. Pink and Brown, where's that name come from? Why that name? Just a terrible idea that came to fruit. It's like every now and then you come across something

and you're like, it's not a good idea, but I'm going to do it anyway. And it was just me and this dude in Lycra bodysuits. We were disguised. It was actually really fun. We played for like a year and nobody gave a shit. And then we broke up and put out the record. And then we came back to play a show and suddenly there were like 300 people at the first show and pink and brown pink and brown yeah you can look up some videos it's pretty fun

like resuits yeah just disgusting i put it i take it off soaking wet and i put it in a bag and then take it out the next day and it would make everybody gag around me and i put it on and like the crowd would just move away so still not a a crowd pleaser? Very hard to describe. I mean, I remember being shocked that there were women at the show. I'd be like, what are you doing here? She'd be like, I feel like I think I walked in the wrong room. Is there like something less disgusting in the next room over? You know, she's like, now just drop a drink on the floor and walk the fight.

But like a lot of chin scratching dudes would be like, I felt like the tonight show was pretty okay. Oh, sure, those guys. We had a lot of those dudes who liked us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But our fans were cool. What were you doing? What was that, noise, or was it?

It was noisy rock. It was like art rock. It was a two-piece. And it was like, you know, we toured with, we did tours with like- A guitar and a keyboard? Just guitar and drums. Just guitar and drums. That seems hard to me.

Actually, it was super simple. I mean, the band was, we never did a reunion show really. Who was the other guy jeff jeff rosenberg who's been he's in uh lavender diamond here and uh day long valley of the nile he's played with a bunch of bands over time he's old school too he's like me and him played the smell a bunch really early on like the only joint that would give us a show in los angeles would be the smell so we played there fucking over and over and over again. But like those kids

were the people that came to our shows so it made perfect sense. So why San Francisco? What made you go there? It's just a beautiful place, man. I mean, I still love San Francisco. But there was no music

out there that drew you? No, there was a ton of, oh no, absolutely. I mean, there was Deerhoof who have been killing it for like well over two decades now, I think. Like I saw Deerhoof

play at Fourth Thunder in Providence as a noise band pretty much with different members members this guy rob fisk who moved up to alaska right and now they're sort of more like avant pop stuff but uh they just they killed me when i saw them um there's a band called the deep throats that i get to do a sort of post uh death of the band record for that came out 15 years after they made it recently with Castle face put it out they were like a sort of tranny really really like angular and filthy fucking punk band they were great yeah really like just balls fucking balls all day I remember I saw them

the first time on mushrooms and uh just was like looking at the singer being like what is happening right now like just to have my ass handed to me it was on the show the show was on the street and it was also Chris Johanson used to be in the band who's the painter

who lives here back and forth here in Portland he was doing really well with painting he was playing bass in the band so that's how I met

all those guys but that band was fucking good like I went they were one of those bands when I was young in San Francisco that I went to go see

every time they played I would go see that band and then because of that all their friends bands were really good like i went i they were one of those bands when i was young in san francisco that i went to go see every time they played i would go see that band and then because of that all their friends bands were really good like that so they had like sort of like a gender bending crowd but very just a unique thing to san francisco at the time it's like a really just a dirty ass like sexy punk yeah shitty fucking like lots of saxophones and she like fucking who's bringing saxophone like we are you know yeah x-ray specs like all that kind of vibe yeah um those bands were totally inspiring and like but like when i first went there i didn't see any music i saw one band called me lie like a grindcore band from chicago at a club and the club was a shithole what year did you go there

that wasn't like 97 i drove out to san francisco we went and checked out austin left i was there 93 94 and i wasn't seeing much music it's it's i think what happened was it comes in waves very I drove out to San Francisco. We went and checked out Austin. I just left. I was there in 93, 94. Oh, yeah. And I wasn't seeing much music. It's, it's, I think what happened was, it comes in waves very much in San Francisco. Yeah. Like, right now, there's maybe a bit of a lull just because of the bullshit people have been doing.

Like, a lot of people have moved to the East Bay. Right. Or to, you know, as you know, a ton of people have moved to Los Angeles. Yeah. Like, I was able to buy a house here. Whereas up there, like, I got kicked out of four houses that I wanted for sale

because I couldn't fucking buy them. Yeah. I was too strung out or too stupid to realize I probably could have gotten a mortgage, but as to whether I would have paid it or not was debatable. But the scene seemed like,

so you get there in 97, you're not really going out and watching, but you're playing? I wasn't playing right out of the gate. I went and got a, the first thing I did when I got there was sleeping on my friend's back porch. I went out and got a job and an apartment got a... The first thing I did when I got there was sleeping on my friend's back porch. I went out and got a job

in an apartment that week. The first job I had was working for just an obnoxiously high... I did a lot of construction and painting in Providence before I left to make money and I learned how to paint and cook and shit. So I was able to do all the menial jobs

and that kind of shit. So I got a painting gig hooked up by my old boss in Providence. Set me up with a painting gig in San Francisco. It was a company called The Experts that was run by a guy named Ian, this old British guy. So you just got, you got planted, you got a job. Got a job. I was making okay money, but I had to be up at like 6 a.m.

Right. As you can tell by looking at me, I'm not real early. Yeah, you want to do this at 10. I said, how about noon? Like, that's how I roll. That's how I've made my life so I don't have to wake up at 6 unless I want to. But yeah, I painted. And then me and Jeff started a band.

And I didn't even want to do the band with him because me and him had already done it. I was kind of a cunt about it. Which Jeff Rosenberg? Jeff Rosenberg, yeah. We did Pink and Brown together. Yeah. And then I guess I did like a slew of smaller bands over the years, just like little side projects.

But Co-Trips and OCs were the other two main ones I did while I was in San Francisco, you know? Yeah. And so when did you start playing? When did you start getting into this scene? Because it seemed like it was... Pretty quickly. But it seemed like there was a lot of different strains of music going on.

There was a lot of metal in San Francisco at the time, too. Yeah, I mean, San Francisco... But also there was some real hippie, you know, retro kind of like folky, weirdo music. Yeah, that was sort of after i moved there like that we call that the coke folk like or like leather feather like that kind of like you know like wow man like sequoia is having a party at her house tonight and like you know who are those bands uh fuck i don't know any of their names but i mean that was an era of san francisco that became really popular a lot of a lot of bands came out of that there's a lot of one thing that was cool

about that is people were getting back to the root of just having one person play an acoustic guitar and sing, which I'm all about. But was that where Newsome came from? Joanna? Joanna Newsome, I guess she did live in San Francisco. She was always,

I mean, her harp playing is incredible. Yeah, was it Fleet Foxes? Were they big? They're out of the northeast, out of the northwest, I think they're in like,

I think they're Seattle maybe. But like San Francisco, yeah, Joanna Newsome, like that kind of shit, like that became very big there. But that was long after I had already

been there for a while oh really we were more in like the I you were already a veteran I connected with like the noise yeah yeah I was a veteran

that was like when that shit was happening that was like when I was doing my most drugs so when you ask me bands names I'm like I have no fucking idea

yeah right right I remember just like muckling a friend of mine to keep him from yelling out at the show like I was like shh you can't yell it's a guy playing a guitar

he's like I'm gonna fuck this up like dragging my buddy out of me show. Like, I was like, shh, you can't yell. It's a guy playing a guitar. He's like, I'm going to fuck this up. Like, dragging my buddy out. I'm like, what's wrong? He's like, I don't know. It made me mad. So you guys were the sweaty, kind of, like, drugged up punk dudes. Always, always. Yeah, I definitely had that vibe of, like, somebody would, like, get on an elevator and

one would, like, clutch her purse a little bit. And I'd be like, come on, really? Like, no interest in your shit, lady. But I get it. Like, then I would catch a glimpse of myself and I'd be like, oh, she she's totally right so that's where the ocs really came into form was there yeah like ocs was originally uh it was this this guy patrick mullins who just actually came out to work with me a little bit here he lives in vermont now but it was me and him basically getting high and just playing music together but like we wanted to do something quiet because i just finished this band

called uh coach whps that was really aggressively noisy yeah how many did you do records Co-Trips did I think three or five records

yeah it was like it was pretty garage rock it was guitar two drums and a little Casio keyboard it was me and a girl she played maracas and stuff

and I had two sets of bands throughout that band yeah but I wanted to do something really mellow so O.C she's kind of started as this like project literally just acoustic guitar a microphone and a guy playing like singing saw he plays saw and like a like a snare drum and a kick drum that'd be our floor tom

rather that was it yeah it was really simple and then he made homemade electronics so he'd have like drones going and stuff so it's sort of hit on that that thing freak folk thing you're talking about except we were definitely like that was just you taking a break we were like smoking meth and then going out and playing the quietest songs we could you know and like and like something about speed was always really funny to me where like people would get really high and then talk really quietly and like that'd be like this is totally perfect get super high and then not be able to talk loud at all anymore we write some really quiet tiny songs and while your brain's on fire yeah i don't even know just like laying there breathing through your mouth all night like a goblin i fucking it was just but

because of that it's incorporated over time more and more members and the music changed and now we're at this rock and roll show kind of you know well where did you meet ty and those guys ty must have been like 12 he was i think he was 19 when I met him, and he, or 18, 18 or 19, he, it was just random. Like, I had heard about a show that was happening, I think, Danger House Records, or whatever the fuck it was called. It was like a little tiny record store,

and like sort of on the edge of the outer mission, that was like a punk record store, that literally like, you'd be flipping like, crass record, crass record, cheap blondie record, you know what I mean? But only things that would be classified as punk, kind of in that area like you'd be flipping like crass record crass record cheap blondie record you know but only things that would be classified as punk kind of

where did you live in the Mission? I lived at that time in the Lower Haight which is where I had my really good stretch of San Francisco it was amazing

was Naked Eye still there? yeah Naked Eye knows Steve yeah Steve every day watching that fucking guy go and get buy a pint of ice cream just eating ice cream

but being like I used to go in there all the time when I lived there so my neighbors all worked my downstairs neighbors all worked at N I lived there. So my neighbors all worked, my downstairs neighbors all worked at Naked Eye. There was Miles. Miles! So Miles was my old neighbor for nine I lived above Miles for nine years. Miles was like the classic

video nerd. Miles used to tell me you remind me of a young you and I'd be like fuck you. But I always remember being like he's a good looking guy so I can't take that as But he used to sit there behind the counter with his glasses He had like tinted glasses and like blonde flippy hair.

Yeah, exactly. Miles was my buddy. I lived above for nine years. Oh, wow. He would let us... We would have full-on rock shows in our apartment with people getting fucked up on the street, and the cops would come,

and Miles would be like, I'll go talk to the cops. He was super cool. And he would come up to the show and be like, just like, I'm going to talk to girls. He has no interest in talking to me. He's like, yeah, thanks for having a show. I'm going to go talk to that girl. And then the cops would come and be like, you i'm gonna talk to girls yeah there's no one just starting he's like yeah thanks for having a show i'm gonna go talk to that girl and then the cops are coming like you

let me deal with this yeah and he'd be like over there like flipping his hair on the cop like oh thanks a lot miles okay well keep him in line you know he's like of that age where the cops are like this what are you the dad yeah the hipster grown-up yeah exactly yeah i remember miles because i used to because when i was doing comedy there i didn't have nothing to do i was living on south van ness it was likeess on 18th next to the Whizburger for a while. I was right there like at 22nd, 23rd. I've lived all over that city.

Yeah, and I was living with this hippie couple who owned the house and we had the bottom. I hope they still own that joint. They're probably worth a few million. I hope so, Terry. I don't know if, I wonder if he's still alive. He wasn't the healthiest dude. But yeah, and there was just nothing to do.

I'd go to Muddy Waters, I i get jacked or i'd go to horseshoe a lot do you remember that weird huge dude who used to wander around kind of crazy guy forget his name but uh he was he would show up at rock shows too he was like a giant but he was a little maybe he was already gone i can't fucking remember his name but he was always around but i used to love the the horseshoe that brown sugar and coffee business where they just have that fucking brown sugar yeah yeah clumped you have to like knock it on the counter that's very san francisco too yeah the pints of coffee man just getting jacked yeah muddy waters is as far as i know muddy waters is still there and there's still a guy behind the counter being like you can't fucking shoot up in here dude like just

being like like that place was always a place where you're going to they they'd have free internet but they'd always be like you go to use the toilet and it'd be like a blue light bulb and like a combination yeah to get right exactly in the back yeah and i was there when the internet happened where they it was like it was before email and shit you could go sit in coffee shops and be you know have conversations with dudes at other coffee shops and that was it that was the beginning of it yeah yeah and now look where we are that doesn't happen anymore man no no you do it right from your house but uh so okay so that so you built the band though right i mean after rose after the you know the casio and the drones i

mean you made a rock band at some point oh we were talking about ty so so you saw so i went to this show this is actually pretty funny. I went to the show. I didn't know who Ty was. I don't know if I'd heard about his band, or maybe I went to see his band specifically. It was this band called Traditional Fools that he still does reunions with. It's one of his buddies. But I went there,

and they were just really fucking good. It was like a pretty straight garage, which is not something I go search out anymore, but they did it really well. The ceiling was like, I'd be walking, and my hair would be brushing the ceiling. That's how low it was. It was literally a basement with a dirt floor

and crushed beer cans. This band was playing and he had a broken hand with a cast on and he had stuffed a drumstick into the hole and was playing drums with the cast with this cheesy stick sticking out. And I was just like, this kid's a badass. And then we talked and then i

saw him after that dude so he started off doing solo sets we just play guitar and play foot drums yeah you know right and uh it was just really good and we started talking i took him to a bar to talk to him about doing a record his first record as himself and uh his buddy came in with me and then he ty was like hey can you just grab his id and bring it back out and give it to me and i was like how old are you and I gave him his buddy's ID who looked fucking nothing like him

like a tall blonde guy with short hair and I gave Ty the ID and we walk in and the guy at the door looks at the ID and then he looks at Ty and then he looks at me

and he's just like asshole and then just let him go and he's like whatever dude like we had known each other from me going to that bar but I was like

I was like sorry dude he's like you're fucking bringing a kid here yeah yeah yeah. Your nephew? And you talked to him? Yeah, and we made the first record.

He was actually the second record that I put out on Castleface after the only other one I'd done before that was my own. So me and this guy, Brian Lee Hughes, who started the label together, put out Ty's first record. And now it's me and this guy, Matt Jones, doing it years later. You put out a few of his records, right? We put out Ty's very first solo record. You did one with him and Cronin?

No, we didn't do that. That was In The Red, I think. And we did a 7-inch. I think that's it, really. Did you play with him? We toured with Ty a lot. See, Ty opened up for us early on when he was doing his solo show. We did a whole month together.

We played a slew of shows together. Every year now, we've been doing a charity gig together where me and him would play a show and switch headlining slots for some local charity in LA or some shit. So you guys are still tight

and it's good. He was around here too, right? I was at the Middle Evil Times with him last night, man. I watched him scream at a guy with a lance, which I thought was pretty ballsy.

We were fans of the Yellow Knight, it turns out. But so what is the mostly the, so do you make money at the label? The label makes money off of OC's records and like King Gizzard, we put out some of their shit and Ty and White Fence perhaps.

Some of the bigger stuff does and some of the smaller records break even and make a little bit of money too. It's tricky, you know what I mean? It's just a tricky business but we also we have a high output we're putting out like two things a month so so that's like you you're really in it you're you're making records and you're putting tons of records yeah my partner is a real workaholic too so he loves the business end of it but i've been pushing on him maybe we need to pump the brakes a little bit so we can actually stop losing all the money that my band makes the label and putting it out on records that aren't necessarily making

money and it just seems like a bad business choice you know but it's like it's it's interesting that there was a period there were you know before cds sort of took over everything where like these small labels were around but they couldn't really find a way and now that vinyl's back in this music is hugely awesome and there's all these deep rabbit holes of music nerddom. Because I look at, like, you know, if I read your wiki page, there are outlets commenting on, you know, sort of the lineups of your bands and whether or not, like there's definitely people that are feverishly into your world.

And that, you know, took, what, years to build, right? 23 years of touring now, I think, or 22 years of touring. And now what kind of, like, what size to build right 23 years of touring now i think 22 years and now what kind of like what size rooms do you usually kind of jam i mean it depends here i always prefer to play a middle-sized club and do it multiple nights so in new york we'll play three or four nights at like the bowery or warsaw right do a few shows because yeah a lot of not that i have a problem with bigger clubs but i prefer like i'd like a like a thousand or less club because then the show's still like the people

when I go to a show at a club that has like three thousand people or something and I'm standing at the back I'm like what the fuck am I doing here you know like

it's just not the same thing where you can't get that weird intimacy it's like you're wearing 30 condoms and you're not you're not in the moment at all you know

so I always prefer to play I like doing multiple nights too because then for the pure fact of laziness, I can load the gear and we do one sound check or whatever and then leave the fucking gear there for three days. Sure. And I can go fuck off. Yeah.

And our sound guy's like, do you want to do sound check? And I'm like, we already did. Why the hell would we do that again? He's like, okay, I guess I'll just go eat again. Yeah, yeah. He's going to Veselka. Right, yeah. How many pierogies can you fit in that thing?

Sure. So you get a residency going for a couple of nights yeah we also a lot of places we play we really get along with them so in like sf would play at the chapel like three nights but this time around we're doing great american for two nights oh yeah that's a big room yeah i mean it's that's not that big though it just looks big it's like 800 yeah yeah but it's also it's at the we were going to try and do three nights but it's at the end of a month-long tour and like tacking on one more night. So it's like, and being so close to home, you're like, eh, just do two nights. And I imagine that unlike bands that, you know, were punk bands at the beginning, a lot of the crowd are like, you know, guys my age.

I think that you probably have a lot of... We have a pretty, we're pretty lucky with our spectrum. Like we have a pretty broad spectrum crowd. Right, because you still appeal. Like, I mean, the music is pretty vital. I get get old guys who are like this reminds me of this band that they don't know about and i'm like that's a good band you know my favorite are like the old english guys about fucking hell they'll like walk up and be like what the fucking night like and his older friend that'd be like two old drunk guys like i brought him because he doesn't know shit and he's

like i loved it yeah i fucking loved it yeah Yeah, yeah. This is my daughter. Like his daughter is like 15. You remind them of a music that no one knows anymore. Yeah. Or I get to meet like little kids. Like some guy will be there with his kid with like headphones on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like sound protecting headphones like a little baby. So the audience is now, because the records, there's so many records.

How many records? Like 20? 19 as of the one I have coming out now 19 full lengths but there's been a slew of eps and there's a constant evolution like floating coffin is straight up kind of psych rock almost right it's a little garagey yep you know the vocals are a little further back and that got a little echo to it right yeah we're getting a little bit more in the front right yeah man and who's the woman that sings on uh bridget Dawson. Who? Bridget Dawson. And she's been with you a lot, right?

Me and her have been working together on and off for like maybe 10 or 15 years now. Yeah. Yeah, I've known Bridget the best. She's like my sister. I've known her for... She just came up with me and her working on a bunch of stuff together right now. Yeah, and the one, like an odd entrance. Was that stuff that you recorded that like, was that stuff

that you recorded for a weird exit that didn't make it on or what? It was just, we recorded like, two records worth of shit, but it was like,

as I was like, orchestrating the first record to come on, I realized that there was like, a batch of other songs that were a little bit more ethereal or far out or like,

a little bit, that record, in my opinion, was like, a fans only kind of thing, which is like, this is, which one,

an odd entrance? An odd entrance is more like for people who already like the band this is not a place for somebody to start because then you get in like I don't really get it

you know or like where would you tell people to start I mean it depends if it depends what they like because we have a few

different directions I think that we work with we have if they like the live show a lot then I'll I'll always recommend the newest record

because frankly once I get past something, I get sick of it really quickly. I loathe everything I've done once a year has gone by. Really? Yeah, kind of. I mean, there's moments here and there where I'm like, every now and then I'll fantasize and be like,

I'm going to do a double LP of greatest hits. And I'll be like, if I had to pick one song from your record, and there's some records where I'm like, blech. I just like- Can't do it. But you'd have to pick one song. I'm like, I don't fucking know. Like the one that the people liked, I guess. Yeah yeah but uh but there's like a lot of like things like

for instance records that people really like are ones that i would recommend like uh like floating coffin was a big hit because that was the first one we hit where it's like pretty aggressively recorded yeah and it's very close to the live show right really like kind of we were getting really like the rock and live show. Yeah. So that's a good one. But then there's also like, you know, more acoustic records that we made

that I would recommend like early on. Yeah, there's a record called like Hounds of Foggy Notion that has a DVD that comes with us playing it outside

all over San Francisco and it's recorded just with one microphone and it's very intimate. And you guys have that available still? No. But you can find it

on eBay. I don't, actually I want to repress it. We've been talking to this guy about doing a VHS of it, talking about some hipster retro if it's your label why wouldn't you keep everything in production um because we do keep almost everything in production honestly that did not come out on our label i came out on a label that was an affiliate a permanent called h

hsbx uh-huh captcha right this is like uh um but uh this guy ben put that out so i need to get in touch with him we've been i've been talking and this is like on the list of many things i need to do but me and matt my partner have been talking about getting this repressed because it was like people like that record you know what's that other label that ty records on sometimes god no uh oh in in the red nah the one drag city drag city yeah drag city does all the thai stuff now as far as i know yeah pretty much unless thai does like a one-off are you guys friends with them um i've met them i don't really know them yeah like they're like i mean it's just like uh i don't know if all label guys know each other we've we've shook hands i've met i've met

one dude a bunch of times because he's always at thai there's no conferences there's no like no good yeah yeah yeah i don't i just don't really know him so well so you're gonna so you got a new record coming out in august yes august 12th and you're touring like you took a break and now you're back leaving two days we're going to poland have you ever been to poland yes poland's fucking great we're playing a festival called off last time we played there the people in the crowd broke a hole in the floor and i watched security rushing over to deal with it. Yeah. And I thought they were going to like stop the show

because it was literally like a three foot hole. But instead the security guards climbed down to the hole and stood back to back and just kept the crowd from falling in the hole. And I remember making eye contact with them and the guy gave me a thumbs up. He's like, no, no, it's okay. And I was like, I love Poland.

And afterwards they were like, great show. And I was like, I can't believe it. They're like, we don't want the people to get hurt and i was like that's not like security guys that i know who are like i'm gonna show wonder what it's gonna be like because politically it's kind of crazy i actually don't know what the hell's going on in poland right now i have no idea well yeah slight nationalistic bent you know it seems to be really popular these days what's going on man i just wonder how it trickles down franchised youth right i wonder what yeah i imagine they're always the thing about europe in my opinion compared to the states or even the uk

a little bit is that people are really sensitive to fascism and shit over there more so than we are because we didn't live it as much as it wasn't on our turf we were fighting it they've been through it but like they were like getting they were the ones getting fucking bombed right you know so it's like i know stories about like somebody calling somebody not over there and getting decked immediately because it's horseshit to call somebody over so like stuff like that like that's why like le pen didn't make it because people are starting to fight back right and london you did you do good there yeah we just played there we played there fuck we just played on the night of that fucking shooting on um on the bridge which was pretty intense what happened

while we were on stage. Wow. So it seems like that is becoming the norm to hear terrible news when you wake up. When you get off stage. When you get off stage. You're like, oh, fucking, you know. Sam Shepard just died.

You're like, what the fuck, man? That was sad. Oh, man. Well, we're of that age now where everybody we like is going to start dying. That's true, man. Somebody was saying the other day, people are dying really quick. And I was like, no, man, you're you're getting old i was like all these guys were fucking 20 when you were zero and they had and they had a strong hold on their thing like you know these

cats that kind of like you know like bowie gave so much bowie built our brain cried i watched yeah but he built my brain you know like it's so obviously they're gonna get old somebody in your family dying yeah but you know it's like I mean how many of the most recent records had you really listened to but it didn't matter it was like you just knew he was here yeah

and now you're here except for the music did you listen I've been listening to that last one it's fucking great it's crazy especially to know

in retrospect while he was writing it it's like he to me is like what do you call it do you know Scott Walker yeah his Bowie

and Scott Walker both of these like cro bowie and scott walker both of these like crooning i mean obviously i'm very different ends of the spectrum yeah even who knows who they are but like both of them kept going further and further out yeah like bowie stopped doing like his like what he knew would sell and was like bring me the best electronic drummer you know just like yeah didn't give a shit anymore and you got like scott walker making records with guys punching sides of beef and shit for the percussion I know I gotta get more

into Scott Walker I've only got a couple records just start at the beginning man and keep moving he's great alright but it's like another thing it's like a

you know heavy personalities and yeah we just saw Iggy Pop play at FYF here and fucking dude it's great that dude's a wolf

it's great how is he still alive and he still looks great and he's so lucid I had him in here and he's like, you know. Oh, really? That's awesome.

It was great. Every time I've ever seen him, they take him on stage and they throw him in a car. He's like laying down like a rug. They pick him up, toss him in the car, just drives away. Well, Rollins told me that, you know, there's a real difference between Jim Osterberg and Iggy Pop. So like when you sit down, you're talking to Jim. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, his memory's great.

You know, he's got. Dude's got all the stories man and he knows them though because like you make these assumptions about dudes that live a certain life and get to a certain age like they got to be out you know just brain dead or whatever but nope i don't think it seemed to me i mean even those guys were partying but like some some of those dudes were cut out to withstand the torments of drug use or touring or whatever. Right. And a lot of them, the myth, you know, it gets held in time, whereas they've moved on. Oh, yeah. They're not doing dope anymore.

That's right. Yeah. The last thing Keith Richards wants to talk about is dope. But then you get those guys who are of that age that are still getting high. Yeah. Like, I get a 70-year-old guy not too long ago. He's like, can you get me meth? And I'm like, come on, dude.

I don't want to be the guy. I don't want to be the guy i don't want to i don't want to be the guy that killed you like i i refuse to have my name with yours in the paper when you're dead they're like oh and then this twat bought him the speed i'm like it's just a picture of me like i didn't know i thought he could handle it but i think some of them like like we were talking about before like some of them might do a little bump to get the juices going but they're not living the life i can't even imagine yeah i'm 42 now and now, and I'm like, fuck that. You got to be out of here, goddamn it. I'm like, have a pint of beer.

Why don't you have a drink? And go watch Game of Thrones. What's wrong with you? You don't want to go read a book. You don't want to go smoke any meth before you go on. It's a three-day investment. Just fucking me, like a weekend at Bernie's, on stage, pulling a string so he looks like he's dancing. I'm like, this was a huge mistake.

Bad idea. The strings are kind of cool, though. Yeah. Well, it was good talking mistake. Bad idea. The strings are kind of cool, though. Yeah. Well, it was good talking to you, John. Cheers, man. There you go. There you go. Did that get you up to speed on the Dwyer experience?

The OCS, OC's new record, November 17th. But look up Dwyer. Look him up and just go into it, man. There's a whole rabbit hole of shit there. I will play some music, much like all the music I've always played. Someday, someday I will transcend the groove that I am stuck in. guitar solo ДИНАМИЧНАЯ МУЗЫКА Buster lives! So, no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products

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