WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 868 - Sam Beam / Bob Saget

Episode Date: November 29, 2017

His given name is Sam Beam but he's known in music as Iron & Wine, maker of soulful folk rock. Marc finds Sam to be a thoughtful son of the South who let his early interests in avant-garde photography, filmmaking and artwork open the door to a career in music. But Sam also explains to Marc why he doesn't listen to much music anymore. Plus, Bob Saget returns to the garage for a rare third appearance to talk about his new special, his just-wrapped movie, and the sudden change in his life. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lock the gate! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fuck nicks? Oh my god. I am harried. I'm literally in between scenes right now. I'm shooting glow. We're shooting down the street, down through, uh, I can't

give too much away. I'll tell you, we're shooting at a movie theater down at the, I can't give too much away. I'll tell you, we were shooting at a movie theater. That's all you're getting. That's all you're getting. Not far from here. I'm back at the, I'm back at the cat ranch. I'm in the garage of the house at the cat ranch, but I came up. We're going to another location.

I got to shoot a thing there. Can't tell you what it is. Can't tell you. I can tell you that I spent the day primarily with alice and brie shooting some stuff all day long and now i'm gonna go go do another scene i can't i can't divulge but i can't tell you this i'm sitting here in my sam sylvia outfit with makeup on and i'm still miked i'm still miked and i and i ran over here in between they're over here in between. They're doing a company move up into Eagle Rock. And I'm like, I got to get this stuff out before it gets too late on the East Coast so Brendan can get on it and not stay up until the middle of the night.

So that's what's happening. And fortunately, we've got a pretty packed show today. We've got a little shorty with Bob Saget, the comedian. You know him. And I'm very excited to say that we've got Sam pretty packed show today. We've got a little shorty with Bob Saget, the comedian, you know him. And I'm very excited to say that we've got Sam Beam on the show. Sam Beam is essentially iron and wine. He does some music that I really like, and I was happy that he came by. So I could get you up to speed pretty quickly, but I do not have a lot of time.

I'm starting to sweat, and the makeup is irritating my face. Oh, but I will say this. If you're looking to get a unique gift for a wtf fan go get them a cat mug just like the ones i give to my guests brian r jones has a new batch of these handmade mugs with artwork by our old buddy dima who did our cat shirts and stickers and you can go to brian r jones.com to get yours they go on sale today at 12 noon eastern 9 pac. And they always go fast. They do.

They're like gone in a second. You can also still get your favorite person in your life a copy of Waiting for the Punch. Words to Live By from the WTF podcast. It's available wherever you get books. And if you want a signed copy, you can get one at podswag.com slash punch. That's P-O-D-S-W-a-g.com slash punch great for birthday gifts for um hey i hope you feel better gifts for the xmas and the other holidays the hanukkah and the other gifting things uh yeah just generally good to give people and buy your and have one for yourself why don't

you get yourself one too there you go is that how's that for pitching am i a pitch man all right so the new house is coming along it has been baptized by i don't know which cat but one of them decided to pee on the floor uh it wasn't in it wasn't like a territorial peeing it was just they someone missed the box and there's a puddle of uh fresh pee on the fresh floor in the new old house it's an old old house, but it's a new floor. And now it's good. A little pee is seeped into the cracks. And I know that the people who lived there before, the woman who owned the house was

a cat, had horrendous cat allergy. So I think this is, in at least the last decade, the first time the cat will have scented the house. So now part of the house will uh already uh i've slept there maybe three or four nights and now it smells like my old house like cat pee and cat poop uh it's only in one room but give them time i just have these weird cats they can't just get in the box and piss and shit like regular cats two of them need to perch like buster will actually get all fours all four of his paws on the edge of the goddamn box and perch there like a fucking bird

and shit and pee uh monkey uh he'll he'll sometimes you know just two two out of the box and sometimes he'll just miss the box all together and pee right up against the wall fonda pretty good pretty good with the box not great at burying uh monkey and fonda never really got a handle on burying shit or piss i don't know why a monkey tends to try to bury it with his paw outside the box or on the edge of the box fonda does it occasionally but usually bails midway buster on the other hand looks like he's digging for fucking gold like he's digging for it for to get out like he's he's digging he's burrowing a tunnel whether he's burying or getting started there's a 90 chance that fucking litter will be all over the goddamn floor and i know you people

are going to tell me hey dude get a covered litter box they don't they don't do it i my cats are always fucking weird they're peculiar they have odd picadillos oh speaking of that i should probably bring my squatty potty back from this house to the new house because that's a nice thing to have right not an ad i just have one and i just realized i had it because i went into the bathroom and i'm like wow that hasn't moved i think there's some secret shame tied into that piece of equipment you know it's not it's weird it implies something it does something it means something and of equipment. You know, it's weird. It implies something.

It does something. It means something. And it's not a sociable thing. But I have nothing to be ashamed of. I'm moving it. I'm going to move it. So Bob, Bob Saget. You know Bob Saget.

He's got a new stand-up special, Zero to 60. It's now available on Amazon, iTunes, and other digital platforms. And he dropped by to chat a couple weeks ago. So this is me and the Saget. I don't think anyone calls him that. This is me and Bob talking. Bob's a sweet man. What's going on with you, man? Well, things are good.

You seem good. Are you high? No, no. I'm a little tired. I've been working hard. I've been doing post on a movie that I finished. The one that I turned down? Yeah, actually.

I'm sorry. Because you were overly busy. Yeah. And it worked out really well because at first, Kevin Pollak wasn't available, and then he became available, so you were the spot. You were the first choice, weren't the first choice, were the first choice. However, it makes you feel better with your ego right now. Doesn't matter.

You got Pollock to do it? Yeah, and he was great. Yeah, he's a good actor. He's a really good actor, and Marianne Lennon, the rice cub. Oh, yeah, she's good. She's great, and Rob Corddry. Oh, yeah. He was funny as shit.

Yeah. And it's called Benjamin, and it'll be out in 2018. What's it about? It's about this kid, my son. I directed it and acted in it. You did? I did, and I played a troubled, messed up suburbanite, kind of like if the guy on the Full House show had like four dimensions, not two,

and kind of just loses it. But it's about your son? It's about my son. We think he's on crystal meth. Oh, not your real son. You don't have a real son. No, I got three daughters, and they're all girls. I'm positive of that. You're sure? Yeah yeah because we took them to the right doctors and they said

yes we did dna checks unfortunately they're mine their adam's apple hangs down to the knees but not their balls no their balls are very tiny and hidden they're there it's like you can't find them it's like carmen santiago looking for their balls do people know carmen santiago is that i don't i don't even know who carmen santiago, that's where in the world is Carmen Santiago. Oh. I hosted SNL once. You did? Yeah, and they did a thing.

It was a really funny sketch. It's called Where in the World is San Diego, California? And people would buzz in, three contestants, and they were trying to guess. Nobody could find it. That's how stupid we were then, but we have doubled down. Sure, we have. Oh, boy, have we.

Tripled down. Oh, you're so fucking dumb. So Benjamin. Benjamin. So it is a movie that was written written by seven years i've been attached to this movie and we only had 15 days to shoot it and crazy low budge and you know that world yeah it's hard yeah uh and running gun uh-huh everything and uh joshua turek who wrote it did a great job he held on for seven years with us nicholas tabarik is the producer and he's made a bunch of movies and uh this was one of his faves and i was passionate about it because it it's a statement

about how the parents are why our young people are where they're at uh in a lot in a lot of cases and how families are even if it's just because of negligence and it is attachment well you're right on what the movie's about i didn't even have to make it you already know what it's about what's the kid up to I don't know the kid is right is he in his room

I don't know but when he comes home we're gonna have an intervention yeah we're gonna talk so what happens is and it's a good wrap out on it it's a real short

little byline my girlfriend played by Mary Lynn posts a thing on Facebook to call an intervention and that's not where you call an intervention no the cat's out of the bag

yeah it's not so you ruin the surprise party not good and the kid and that's not where you call and you know you the cat's out of the bag yeah it's not you ruin the surprise party not good and the kids mom's not around yeah so we're trying to get her to come so who winds up coming is Sherry O'Terry and Dave Foley and Rob Corddry is the family's hilarious intervention it's a dark comedy though because it is it is not hilarious it's not wacky it it's weird it's what it is because we go between I go between, and it was written that way, to go between really funny and then really serious.

And Rob Corddry is the family gynecologist who's forced into leading the intervention because he's a medical person. So the movie's coming out in 2018. Yeah, so I would say any time, we're thinking around May, but it might be a little before, but you'll be seeing Benjamin posters and I'll be out doing my whore-like preaching on it.

I'm very, very proud of it. My character is a bit of a conundrum. He's nuts. Do you really do some acting? I did, and we'll see if people like it or not. And I've been loving acting. I did a Broadway play that I got to do, Hand to God, not long ago, a couple years ago, and that was this Tony-nominated great play

that you would have loved. Yeah. Dark as shit. I didn't see it. Really smart. I played a Lutheran pastor trying to help a young boy who had a puppet of Satan on his hand. So he was, Stephen Boyer, this brilliant actor,

was fighting his own hand. And it was the devil trying to kill him, and I was trying to exercise the devil out of him, but it was a comedy written by Robert Askin, so just this real special thing. How do you exercise it? Can you just take the puppet off his hand? Well, I don't want to buzzkill,

spoiler alert, because they are doing it around the country, but it's a violent play. Okay. It's a dark, violent play. I'm going to cut his hand off. I don't want to say it. I wouldn't say a whole hand is gone. Okay, okay. Could just be a fragment.

Could be none. Could be a nail, a cuticle. Could not at all. He could have a full on hand. That's right. Could never have any problem. Do you have a special on or something? I do.

I do. You're so nice because you slide into this shit. And it is one of the things you loathe the most. What? Well, you like to promote people that you like. I like you. I like you. I'm sorry I don't have the special. What? Well, you like to promote people that you like. I like you. I like you. I'm sorry I don't have the special.

I didn't get to watch it. I wish you had. I thought you wanted me in because you saw it and you liked it. Really? No, I thought you liked me. I didn't think you saw it. I crammed yours. I crammed yours.

It's actually... Is it on? No, I'm saying I crammed it. I said I shoved it up my ass. Oh, that's interesting. See, that's what I... How do you do that with a special? You just shove it up your fucking ass. See, that's what i do that with a special you just shove it up your fucking ass see that's what i do to comedy that you won't you watch your

you just open your ass in front of the tv fuck yeah okay and you can get it in in cd or dvd or lp oh so you oh so you you actually got it on a hard copy and you shoved it in your eyes you watch it on netflix like everybody i didn't want to stream it into my ass i'd like to stream out of my ass i got it my my woman who is uh like to stream out of my ass. I got it. My woman, who is amazing. She's not my woman. She's my equal. She's my finest. I guess it's the first place I'm announcing this, that I am engaged.

Congratulations. Yes. I wish I could push a button and a glass would break. Or just... Do you see yourself ever doing that what pushing buttons no getting married again yeah why well let me why why are you lady but she's she's amazing and it just felt right and i don't know i just felt right so i don't know and it's been a long time i haven't been married uh since

1941 before you were born yeah that's tremendous yeah my dna you've been married twice i've been married once oh so it's oh really so i'm divorced 22 years with three dogs so you just you you took a long time to get over it and i went to go out i went through many you actually had me on here to plug my book dirty daddy and it talks about all the relationships I had that didn't stick. Right. And then you've gone through similar stuff. I've been through a few, but I don't have kids. Like, the kids must make everything okay.

They're amazing. They're actually, I'm real fortunate. Yeah, the mother is not, like, is a nice lady and not some unstable. Nice lady, and she wants to take care of the kids as much as I do. Right, and she knew that you were, she probably overcompensated for the fact that you're you. We met when we were 17. Oh, you locked in.

Yeah, I locked in. Actually, I couldn't get out. It was like a toggle bolt because the head of my unit is that big. It's literally like a toggle bolt. I know you do a lot of home repair because I looked around before we came back here. And you know how you put the hole, you go in the hole and then bam, it just opens up. Yeah. You can't pull it out.

No. So that happened. And so we were together for 14 years because of that situation. Three kids. Right. My fiance is going to love that bit. Oh, yeah. It's not a bit. She's going to want you to open the toggle in hers. Oh, my God. Where fiance is going to love that bit. Oh, yeah. It's not a bit.

She's going to want you to open the toggle in hers. Oh, my God. Where's my toggle? Well, they have new ones now. They have the ones that you just screw in and you just put the screw in. You don't have to do anything. Nobody gets hurt. Oh, that's great.

They make them out of soft rubber like my future neck will be when I have that done. But, okay, so what's the age difference? It's supposed to be half my age plus seven. That's what I did. So she's 38. I'm 61. Are you 61? I am.

My special is zero to 60, which is about me being zero and then turning and going to 60. And how long have you been with this girlfriend? Three years and change. That's really good. The change is good. Always Jews bringing up change. Yeah. Yeah, because there could always be more, right?

Well, because you don't need to use a credit card if you have change at the meter. So how long were you with this one that you engaged to? This one. That just sounds like grabbing the pussy kind of talk. Does it? It didn't used to. That's what's fucked. What do you mean?

That's something that all my- No, I'm not accusing you. My mother would say that. I'm saying I- My mother would say that. I have all these- How long have you been with that one? This one.

Yeah, but your mother would also say, my parents said racial stuff because I lived in Norfolk, Virginia. So they would say stuff that I would go like, who the fuck are you people? And they didn't mean anything by it. What do you mean racial stuff about women you were dating?

No, no, no. Like in 1960- The blacks? Yes. In 1960, they never said that. and they looked at people as equal. But they would slip up with words that disturbed me a great deal. And so in 1960, I'm on a... That sometimes came up, or the girl is coming in on Thursday.

And that's like, hey, mom. But you know, it's like... It's a different... You could say it's a different time, but the truth is the time shouldn't have been. I was on a ferry boat from Norfolk, Virginia to Richmond, Virginia, and now the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel is there, and there were bathrooms for coloreds and whites. And I went into the colored bathroom because I wanted to go to the bathroom,

and I was four, and my dad said no that's that's for people that aren't white and i and i remember i'll never forget it's one of the earliest memories that i have that enraged me i said why does this exist why i didn't say that i didn't know the word exists why is it why is it this way and he kind of started to cry a little bit it was really interesting and then he held me and made out with me weird it was so weird that he kissed me over something racial yeah but we were on a ferry but i think he thought it was the story it changes the story he didn't want you to have to deal with the you know the heaviness of how society works and what is mankind that's right where are they going you just figured

i'm gonna kiss this kid right on the mouth. And he'll forget. He'll forget everything but the kiss. Right. And he didn't do anything else. He didn't hold me like a puppet. So I got this special. Yeah. I talk about what I was going to say to you that I wanted to say about it. Yeah.

Not promo hallway, but you were talking about your dad, and you thought he was so smart, and then you found out. He's a fucking moron. Yeah, right. He's all right. Well, my mom. It's an exaggeration. My mom died. My dad's taken a lot of hits. Your mom died? Two years ago. Yeah, right. He's all right. Well, my mom. It's an exaggeration. My mom died.

My dad's taken a lot of hits. Your mom died? Two years ago. Oh, sorry. Thanks. And I really started to like her. I hadn't really because she was so much of a disciplinarian. And the reason I would get out on stage and go,

cock, shit, fuck, wasn't because I was on Full House. It was because I was told no. Right. Those are bad words. Right. And I was like, you know, the seven words you can't say, why can't I just say them? But I didn't say them as a rim shot. I said them-

At your mother. I don't- At her. You said them at your mother. I did. I did. You were cock, shit, fucking before Full House. That's what-

I was, but Dice recently spoke to me on the phone. He goes, Saga, we got a tour together. And by the way, you stole my act. I said, what the fuck are you talking about? He goes, you didn't curse as much. And you did it to change your image on Full House. I said, Andy, I didn't. It happened naturally.

He was my comedy store friend, Andy. Yeah. He would bring girls to his apartment and play his act on cassette tape and then try to fuck them. I lived in his room in Cresthill. The room that he had. Very lucky man you are. That little room with its own bathroom. You know that room? Yes. I don't know it.

I've been by it. I never stayed there. But it's almost Midnight Express. Another reference. So you guys should tour together. That's a great idea. I don't know. I'd have to go on a forum. I'd have to listen to him i mean you also have his old his audience yeah i don't i'm i'm doing like um uh i don't do a lot of stuff to listen to him he's funnier now than he's ever been i love him actually i just i just love him because he owns who he is i do too i didn't i you know i didn't think about it much one way or the other but when I get to know him, when I talk to him and hear

and now I see him around, he's really like, he's a thoughtful guy. He's real thoughtful. Yeah, and he's an original thinker, you know, and he's And he's creative. Responsible guy, good father. I don't know. I agree. Like, to hear him talk now without the

you know, the, what he used to do, you know, which is now he, which is now he's in old dice. He's talking about going to Staples. I can watch him talk about things. Well, that's the endearing part. And he was also raised by Rodney in a lot of ways. Rodney liked him a lot. And Rodney's favorite was Jim Carrey.

That was Rodney's favorite one to bring up. I'm trying to get him in here. I've actually been able to spend some time with him, and I just love the hell out of him. Jim? Yeah. Yeah. He's actually, it's interesting to see people that look at things from outside this stupid box that we're in. And he's, you know, he's on a journey and he's trying to figure stuff out. Yeah? Yeah. But not like when you talk about meditating and everything. I mean, it would be interesting for you to have him in here yeah really interesting it would be yeah you gotta get him in so you were shit fuck cocking at your mother and you're what about your dad

my dad was really funny and just told me perverted shit my entire childhood so the reason i am the comedian that i was when i say this joke came from my dad it's either exactly verbatim or something that would have come from him yeah and it was we're in a restaurant and this was on my last special but it was my dad and it was it's just a joke you know he opened the menu and said tonight specials are cake and cock and we're out of cake and that's just a joke and that's just telling you all they got is cock and I'm'm a kid. I'm really young. I hadn't even hit puberty. So if that's your dad, you know, you're going to be a comedian.

Something's going to happen. You're going to be a comedian. And my mother would just say, stop it, Bobby. Stop it. So near the end. That's what she should have called you special. Stop it, Bobby. Stop it.

She actually said to me that she was going to come back as a dove. Yeah. And I said, please don't. And so that was like seven minutes of material of what would that be like if your mother comes back as a dove? Well, it sounds great. And I do four songs at the end. Now, you probably, oh, wait, that's what I want to do.

Watch this. What? But these, like I was influenced by Martin Mull. So I would go see Martin Mull at the main point in Philly. Yeah. Now there were comedy songs, and nobody did comedy songs better than him. There were a couple of other people that were pretty amazing. He's still around, right?

He is. Can you talk to him? No, and I want to. I mean, I'm stupid. I should. Let's see if Mitchell Walters emails back. He's a painter, and he's an actor. I mean, he's always painter and he's he's uh he's an actor i mean he's always acting and stuff he's just wonderful but the song the last song that i wrote for the specialist called called uh or i

wrote for performing yeah is we've got to be kind to each other and it's kind of give peace a chance but it's got laced with my my uh r-rated uh whatever the fuck it is that not filthy mouth call it that it's not not even, it says explicit. Fucking dirty fucking mouth. I don't use fuck as a verb. You know, I guess it's an adverb or what would it be? If you go, that's fucking crazy. What would that be in the English language?

I think an adjective, no? That's an adjective. Wouldn't it? I don't know. Is it a conjunctivitis term? That's fucking crazy. It feels like an adjective. I fucked her fucking crazy

that's a verb and you're double you're double purposing it well i don't even know if that's a real sentence it's also not acceptable anymore what so well we're fucking crazy well i was talking i was talking to my lady just last night literally that's what you said no i'm gonna fucking fucking crazy no no first she said don't call me crazy but uh don't call me shirley but i i you can't call him crazy anymore well i can't do i can't well i wouldn't want to anyway now that i'm 61 i just wanted to be more specific on what the pathology is like you can't say she was crazy you could say she had borderline personality disorder i felt bad but i couldn't take it anymore and that used to be like she's fucking crazy or she got out it's gonna get more

like this or she had issues but they were probably my issues and i own my part in it yeah you know it's it's in other words she was fucking crazy and you barely got out i had seven seven relationships in the past 20 years most of them were a couple years each every time i've walked in this door you've said what what's up and i would say wow i got somebody and and uh then this is the real thing because this is the real thing because i'm locking it down and put a ring on it put it that's right i'm i'm beyonce in her but she's she's great she's just fucking great so and i've never had i hope you don't get hurt uh thank you always look on the bright side of life eric idol should be singing right now i i uh i i did a line in the special that well not a line no not that kind but i did a line which is

i i might it's gonna get people are gonna be annoyed at some of the things i say it's i legally you can only hope in hollywood it's supposed to be annoyed at some of the things I say. You can only hope. In Hollywood, it's supposed to be half your age plus seven. But I forgot the half your age, so I was just doing seven. So that's too young. See, that's a pedophile joke. Can you do that anymore? I don't think so, but I did it in this special.

This new one? Yeah. And I also did a thing about Bill Cosby and it is saying a character of myself because years ago I took lewds in Cleveland. You ever taken lewds? They were already gone by the time I was old enough to appreciate them. You kids today.

Yeah, I missed the lewds. They had mandrakes were around. I don't know what they were. They were post lewds. I was doing Full House on the Video Show, so I G-rated what they were. They were post-ludes. I was doing Full House on the Video show, so I G-rated what was left of my brain for a while. Yeah. But then roofies, I guess, took over. Yeah.

No, usually those are administered. You don't take those on purpose. Right. Yeah. The point of the thing is I took them. I took ludes myself. Yeah. So that I would not violate someone so that I would be unconscious.

I literally will knock myself out before. So you don't know what happened? No. My butthole had a Tinker Toy in it, though, so it had to be a young person or a Lego. I'm not sure. Tinker Toy is the reference. Tinker Toy with like one of those pieces at the end of it? Yeah, the square, and you could put a whole bunch of spokes.

Yeah. Hell yeah. Oh, you remember a few things. Oh, my God. I had to take a toy out of my ass. But it was a Christmas tree one. So I know the time of year from that. It wasn't a car?

Like a car? No, and you could make the car, and the wheels turned. Yeah. And it always got, once it got crooked, you were fucked. And it was wood. They were wood. Yeah. It was wood.

I always had wood. So you and I will never say wood with the same meaning. No. Or head. No. But I don't always go there. say wood with the same meaning. No. Or head. No. But I don't always go there. That's what's different about- This special?

Well, yeah. I'm not- I can do one lines, but it's more stories and it's more- I'm just- I'm a grown up is what's happening. And I didn't know, unlike you with your Netflix special, you made your deal. You knew you were doing it. You knew the theater.

Where did you shoot that, by the way? Minneapolis. Gorgeous. I loved it. i love that theater yeah i think what we're what we're talking about here is that you know bobby you you're now able to go a little longer like when you when you were when you listen to yourself when you when i listen to you tell an emotional story i'm like all right listen to bob he's telling an emotional story it's touching how long will it take for him to throw a dick in it or something up your ass yeah like

how long and i think it's gotten a little longer it's a little longer and that that is what happens growing up with age it takes longer to throw a dick in it if you love it you put a ring in it and then you throw a dick on it now if you throw a dick across a room at a guy and it goes all the way across the room and it sticks to the middle of his head. Yeah. He's got a, he's a unicock. Now, the reason I said that was right when you, when I thought of throwing a dick,

I thought of the word unicock. So I needed to fill time till I said the word unicock. You gotta get there. I had to scat to it. But I didn't know, the difference between my special and your special is,

yours is good. And the other difference, the other difference is I didn't know I was doing it. When you were doing it? I did not know I was doing it at all. Did you go to a doctor? What are you talking about? You're not going to believe this. And you maybe would have said no.

But I got on an email on a plane on a Thursday. I was going to New York to do some television and do a couple of gigs. This is a very specific memory. Well, this is one of the most important moments of my whole life. More important than my family. And I got an email, do you want to shoot your special Tuesday?

What? And I went, where? And he said, Williamsburg Hall of Music in Brooklyn. And I went, I love that place. And that would make it kind of a medium, small to medium sized place.

My last one was at the Moore in Seattle. So this would be intimate. Four days? I could talk to the audience. Four days. I said, okay, so somebody fell out. Are you shooting other ones? And he said, yeah, a couple other ones.

I said, it can't look anything like the same place. And he went, it won't. It won't. And they honored that. And I had the set deck. People came in and did everything, the specifications. I'm on the plane literally designing the set wow on a six-hour flight and the set i've been rolling for three years and i've been doing 90 minutes everywhere so it was like i put two shows together i never have a person in my life a girlfriend my daughters never

have them at a show but once i did the first one my daughters live near there i said come to the second show i just had like an hour notice i just yeah but they knew i had told them ahead that that might happen because do you have uh family members i don't have anybody it's me and the it's all about i don't have my girlfriend come out i go myself it's us and them yeah i go myself i said it backstage but maybe i have one comic friend or one friend around well this one you just took a piss it was you and your dick. That's right. But who was backstage with it?

No one was really there. Did anybody warm up the thing? Yeah, yeah. Amber. Amber Preston. She's from the Midwest. Oh, cool. But yeah, Lynn Shelton directed.

But as far as the dressing room, the last special I did, my friend Tom Sharpling was there. My friend Sam Lipsight. Right. When I did Carnegie Hall, Nate Bargetzi. He opened for me. He hanging around. But not a big scene. No loved ones.

No. No, because it fucks with you because your relationship with them is different. It's exactly a relationship. That's right. And you don't want that in you. No. You don't want to have the moment where you're like, can I do this? This is crazy.

Right. And I don't know if you get asked this, but I do. I'm going somewhere. I'm on a plane. Or they see me somewhere. I'm coming around the backstage entrance of some theater. And somebody says, are you going to be funny tonight? Have you ever gotten that one? My answer is,

do you ask your pilot if he's going to get you to Cleveland? I see you're already talking to that person too much. See, that's why I need to talk to you. We need to see each other outside of this environment because you can actually help what's left of me. Wanted to go out on a high note. Thanks for talking, buddy. I love you.

Okay, there you go. Me and Bob. Me and the Bob Saget guy. The Bob Saget. As I said, his new stand-up special zero to 60 is available on amazon itunes and other digital things you can get that and he's always a pleasure to see he's a lovely man he's a he's a heavy-hearted man in some ways i believe old bob as we get older we get a little heavy we'll get some spilkas you know what i mean i think that's the correct word get spilkas a little spilkas huh look it up i rarely do the jew but there you go some spilkas

you got spilkas so um iron and wine that first record man that first record sold me i was mystified i was mystified by that first record. The Creek Drank the Cradle. That record. 2002. Wow. That was a while ago. But that record killed me. I was like, who is this?

What's up with this dude? Where did this sound come from? And as some of you know, Upward Over the Mountain from that album, The Creek Drank the Cradle, was the closing song of my series. And that was a big concession. We were on a tight budget and we got songs by some people that didn't have big money publishing and we weren't really allowed to buy songs that people can necessarily identify because they're too expensive. But they threw me a bone and they let me buy an iron and wine song for the closing credits because it was the only thing the only song there was nothing

that was going to sound like that song nothing upward over the mountain just it just kills me that song i don't even know why but i'll talk to sam about it i will talk to sam about it so if you don't know iron and wine check them out they've got a lot of great records in there. The last record, actually, Beast Epic, is out now, as is all the other ones. And it was just nominated for a Grammy. So this is me and Iron and Wine, a.k.a. Sam Beam. Or this is me and Sam Beam, a.k.a. Iron and Wine. Sam Beam, a.k.a. Iron & Wine.

You don't live around here. No, I live in North Carolina, outside of Chapel Hill. Oh, that's nice. When I was there, it was shortly after the election, so there was a sense of like, they're closing in on us. Coming deep. Like those red, those blue cities and red states. There's some real terror there.

I was scared when I went. You should try living there. I think it's beautiful. Sure is pretty. Right. But you just never know when the hills are going to engulf you. You never know. Well, you look like you could, you know, like I don't know what you would do if Push Came to Show.

It's all a fit in. It's all a fit in. No, you got the beard, you got everything. It's like, no, you got the wrong house. You have to infiltrate to be safe.

I also have some overalls that I put on sometimes. You got some overalls. Hold on, let me show you the flag. Yeah. Also a piece of straw that I just shove in my mouth

that's in my back pocket at all times. I think the hippie you're looking for lives down the street a piece. So how do you, so you're an art guy, I noticed by walking through my house with you. You're an art guy, I noticed from walking through your house. Well, I mean, that's like, that's pretty low level, you know, most of it's poster art. But the photograph, I mean, not a lot of people know peter whitkin and you knew it how do you know it because he's a totally disturbing artist if you've ever experienced it no i i used to him i used to

i studied photography and so that's what i thought i was going to be in another life photographer is that true yeah i don't know why you would lie about something like that i don't know i don't know why i said is that true like come on you're pulling my leg you study photography did you study did that so you were doing how old are you do you say that 43 okay yeah today today seriously no i still am i was yesterday too okay. It's not your birthday. No. I mean, not many people that you walk into their house have, you know. A Wittgen. Have a Wittgen. That's for sure. Yeah, but that's an easy one to take, you know, out of the Wittgen oeuvre.

Yeah. There's not a lot that you would want to, like, put up around your house. No, that was one that my folks got when he was in graduate school, and I don't know, somehow I got hold of it. So you studied photography, like you were going to shoot? Well, I was just into art. I went to an art school, not really knowing where it was going.

I mean, it was a nice place to be. Well, where'd you grow up? In South Carolina. You did? Yeah, not far from where I live now. I moved around quite a bit and just sort of landed back there recently. You kind of want to go home sometimes, right? If home's nice.

You know, sometimes you do, and sometimes you don't have a choice. Oh, really? Family drew you back? Yeah, yeah. Which has been great. Because you got kids? Yeah, I have a bunch of kids. Family drew you back? Yeah. Which has been great. Because you got kids? Yeah. I have a bunch of kids.

And so it's great to have access to family and stuff. To watch the kids. You need somewhere to dump the kids. You would think so, man. But they're... Are your folks both alive? Yeah, they are. And they love seeing the kids.

But, yeah, it's kind of hard. You know, that's a mixed blessing. Being close. Sure. Sure, because they like your kids. but you know that's a mixed blessing being close and sure because they like your kids but how are they with you exactly exactly so that's been nice

did you grow up in a big family over there no it was actually a really small family I think that's why I wanted to have a big family of my own. How many you got? I have five daughters. Wow, five daughters. I grew up with just one sister.

My sister Sarah. You just keep trying for a son? Is that what's happening? I think the second one I was hoping and then after that I just sort of gave up.

Now I just... Are you done? Is this it? I am way done. your wife i imagine is done love them all very much yeah but i but i've uh enjoyed my time with my male cat oh yeah we bro down the only one in the house yeah we talk about beers and uh-huh so you grew up there in like in chapel hill or around there i grew up in columb, South Carolina, which is right in the dead center of the state. It's like the capital and also there's a university.

Their mascot is the Gamecocks. And I remember even as a child, they had baseball caps that said, Go Cocks. They did? Totally. Unironically. I think I have a glass that says that said go cocks they did totally unironically i think i have a glass that says that yeah is that what they are is that white mug up there like the one under glass no no the white mug that's from the president on top of the shelf there's a mug in the center does it say is that the cocks is that them yeah oh that says oh you got the five chinese brothers book too no this is the yeah this is the north shore smoking cocks i don't know what i don't know what sorry not to be confused not to be confused

chinese brothers was that an important book to you yeah it's a great book it's a great book I bought a new copy yeah why wouldn't you because I was haunted by it yeah that image of the guy with the huge face

absorbing the whole ocean that's the exact one that stayed with me forever that's why that's what that's why I remembered it

the guy holding the ocean in his mouth yeah that's why I had to go out and buy that book again I don't even know if that book is on the level you know racially racial level yeah i don't know but it is but i i it made profound

impact me too because of that same thing i had one another one that was along similar lines was there was you remember the superhero the super Super Friends cartoons when we were kids? Yeah. There was one with a growing woman, like a woman who would turn into a giant. That freaked me out, too. Oh, yeah. Along the same lines. Something about people changing size to be bigger.

About bigger or doing- Smaller seemed okay. Or mutating themselves. Yeah. Yeah, I had a fairly weird fascination with human anomalies, freaks, circus people. Joel Peter Wick and stuff. Yeah, that was where it all culminated or fulminated. That's where it found its portal in art. Right.

Yeah, I was like, this guy gets it. He understands me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you grew up by the college? Close, yeah. I mean, nowhere in Columbia is that far from the college. Was your old man work for the school? He worked for the state government.

Oh, yeah? Yeah, in land management, coastal management. Coastal management? Beachfront management, yeah. For the government? For the state. Oh, yeah? Yeah. And land management, coastal management. Coastal management? Beachfront management, yeah. For the government? For the state. For the state. South Kakalaki.

Which was nice because we got to go to the beach a bunch. I love the beach. Yeah, the beach is pretty. But what does that job entail? He just goes out and checks on, makes sure people aren't building things on government property? Kind of, yeah. You know, just telling people what to do with the dirt or the sand. Clean that up.

Sand and water. Move that shit over. That's okay. That's not okay. And you did that for his whole life? Work for the government? Yeah. Yeah?

I mean, you know. Yeah. People do lots of things they don't tell you oh yeah but but that's what i understood he was doing yeah we called him a beach doctor the beach doctor and your mom what did you do she was a mom for a long time then she was a teacher she would teach him biology like high school biology luckily i didn't i never had to go through navigating having her as a teacher but yeah i've had i never had to go through navigating having her as a teacher but yeah i've had i've talked to people that've had that yeah issue

you think that would have been difficult was she a tough tough lady sweet no she was sweet and you have one sister one sister named sarah and she used to sing with me oh she early on the stage yeah for a long time really yeah on records on records too yeah which records documented it's on the record it's on the record yeah yeah she stopped about well i mean i think it was not quite 10 years ago now did she play anything she played the fiddle the violin, whatever you want to call it. Oh, yeah? Is she still in the music game?

No. She wanted to be a mom. Yeah. It's hard to be a mom and travel all the time. She also has a lot of food allergies, and you wouldn't believe how... How hard it is to find. Well, just traveling, you never know. It depends on what

you're kind of the mercy of the kitchen you know you have something that you're allergic to you never know i mean and her um allergy was to pine nuts which at the time was you know now you see pine nuts and everything but now not allergies are kind of yeah they're scary crazy so that was really stressful. Pine nuts, like pesto, is no good. Yeah, but it was so bad that if someone was making some pesto in the kitchen somewhere and she ordered french fries and they used the same, you know, whatever. Yeah, fork. She was in trouble.

Really? Like her throat would swell? Totally, yeah. There's a lot of interesting international emergency rooms out there. Oh, yeah. You took a tour of European emergency rooms? Yeah. Yeah.

Super fun. Where is the best one? Sweden? Germany? Yeah, the list. It's not like one of those lists with these bright, shining beacons. They all just sort of have their own dull glow. The best emergency room. if needed so when so you didn't uh you played music when you were a kid uh sort of not really i i liked music as a kid i always loved the radio and stuff i didn't really

play music until i was you you know, a late teenager. You never picked up a guitar? No, it just wasn't really one around until I figured out where it was in the closet. Your dad's old guitar?

Yeah, I think he got one, you know, when, when country music. Yeah, you know. I can do that.

It's a nice hobby. It's always an old guitar that's cheap and like three music books. Yeah, then it's, yeah, exactly. Don cheap in like three music books yeah exactly Don Schlitz the song book

I could learn it what kind of guitar was it? it was yellow a yellow guitar I don't even know what it was it was sat beside the dusty golf clubs we finally brushed it off dusted it off and punk rock and everything was cool at the

time, and I love music, and so it wasn't hard to find people that, you know. Was it an electric guitar? No, the acoustic guitar. Playing punk rock on the acoustic? Hell yeah. Yeah. You were that guy. With my overalls.

Yeah. No, you know, you just make do with what you got. There's acoustic songs on that guy. With my overalls. Yeah. No, you just make do with what you got. There's acoustic songs on that record. That's about as punk rock as I guess, the Stooges record. I guess that's true. It's documented. Your pretty face is going to hell. Right?

That one's got some acoustic guitar. Even Gimme Danger's got acoustic guitar all over it. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It's just... You proved your point, Sam. Check, please. So you were...

Okay, fine. So you were listening to the Stooges. Sometimes. You were defending the acoustic guitar for punk rock. That's right. Did you see that documentary? I did. That was fun. It was all right. Did you see that documentary? I did. That was fun.

It was all right. It wasn't one of those, like the Big Star documentary I saw not long ago. Yeah. Changed my whole perception of that band. Oh, I didn't see that one. Check it out. Yeah? This one was just fun.

It was like looking through. Yeah, it was like you kind of romp through it. Nothing was revealed. And if you like iggy it's good super fun so you like big star is its own rabbit hole that certain people are involved with right are you one of them i'd love that i'd love them i i remember i wasn't really aware of them and then they did those reissues in the 90s. Right. Of number one, the star with the one in the middle. Yeah.

But mostly, for me, mostly number three was the one that they reissued. Sister Lovers. Yeah, that's the one. Well, I didn't realize how many of my favorite bands had sort of co-opted, or not co-opted, but absorbed what they continued the conversation that they had started. That's a nice way of putting it.

It's better than appropriate or stole. Continued the conversation as it moves through time and space. A conversation was started by Chilton and the fellas. Carried the baton

as long as they sisters and what? Sisters and lovers? Sister lovers. Sister lovers. Or Big Star Third. Big Star Third. What does it look like? ton yeah as long as they sisters and what sisters and lovers sister lovers sister lovers or big star third big star third what does it look like how come i don't have it it's round black it's got some grooves on it i have uh the first one the first one i like that record as you should and the second record i don't know if i have but i got an alex chilton record of some other stuff

yeah you know that he did one of the weirder ones um yeah oh i have a lot of those see i don't know if I have, but I got an Alex Chilton record of some other stuff. Yeah. You know, that he did. One of the weirder ones? Yeah. I have a lot of those. See, I don't have Big City, Radio City, Big Star either. That one's good too. Man. I know they're good, man.

You're going to have to just. I know. I only have that one and I have the Chilton record. There's a lot of records out there though. You can't really beat yourself up too much. A lot of them are in my house. I have a lot of records in a room in my house, and Big Star should be among them,

because people like you, with your affectation and your folk music, start talking about Big Star, and I feel like an idiot for liking Aerosmith. You see what I'm saying? What's wrong with Aerosmith? I'm kidding. Oh, man.

I love Aerosmith. That's another conversation to have, too. Well, yeah. You grew up with Townie Rock. You grew up with Townie Rock. That's where it's at. I don't know if... I don't know if...

Yeah, that Big Star thing at the time, it was pretty bent. I don't know if I was way into Aerosmith that I would have been ready for that record. Right. Yeah, I mean, I don't, I try to mix it up, and I have nothing against Big Star or those that it spawned, but I know that it's a big world,

and I've grown to like Alex Chilton more. Yeah. I just don't know why I never completely locked in for the full ride. Well, that's what I mean. There's so many records to get lost into at this point. I mean, it's so saturated.

I actually don't listen to a whole lot of music anymore just because silence has become such a commodity. Is it quiet where you live? It can be when everyone's at school. Yeah. But you live in the country? Yeah. I mean, it's a rural, just kind of right outside of town.

Yeah, I mean it's a rural, just kind of right outside of town. Yeah, but I, you know, I hang around with music people all day who are, you know, just dedicated crate diggers. Oh yeah? And that shit is fun. The guys you work with in the band? People I work, yeah, I mean, but that's sort of one of the handshakes you do as these sort of merchant marines that, you know, you see people along the way. You don't only see them, you know, every few years and years and you say hey man it's great to see you you heard anything and then people yeah heard anything and is it generally older stuff that they find it's everything everything omnivorous yeah yeah because there's like so much older stuff that like because

of mainstream music and what like and i was kind of off the grid as a teenager because i knew some guys all it takes is one couple guys man i had a serious enabler one of my best friends growing up his name was alex smith and his um stepdad was a grad student at usc and just you know for my little kid brain in Columbia that only had access to whatever was on the radio, all English beat, like all this stuff, New Order, like all this stuff, Rolling Stones, like everything that, you know, just, but deep stuff that like Velvet Underground for the first time in my, you know, little teenager brain. Oh, shit.

I don't know who I would be without having met that person. That guy. Maybe I would have. Photographer. Yeah, maybe. One of Joel Peter Wittgen's assistants, maybe. Holding the head. Could you set that head over there, Sam?

Move the head a little bit. Formaldehyde replenisher. Yeah, exactly. I know. Isn't it weird how much that matters? It is. It's funny looking back and saying, who really gave your life direction more so than other people? It's usually a surprise as you look back.

It's not the people that you think they are in the moment. No, it's not necessarily the good teacher or whatever it's that one guy that said that one thing right or gave you this uh you know something to hold on to right yeah yeah yeah thank god for those guys and the weird thing about records though is that that can still happen you know it's not it's not going to be the same as hearing the velvet underground for the first time and realizing that they're not even together anymore. Right. You know?

Right. I wonder if it's the same now because you have everything, you have access to everything in a few clicks. I still feel like people need curators in a way. Oh, no, absolutely. But like I tried it. Well, I've been, I'm back in the record hole like, you know, any other relatively. With it, absolutely. But I tried it. Well, I'm back in the record hole like any other relatively... With it dude. I don't know if I was going to say nostalgic old man, but I'll take with it dude.

You're only 54, Mark. I know, but I remember records. There's a lot of people that don't have any nostalgic recollection of records. They don't fucking care. They had 12 records, and then CDs happened. Right, yeah. But I had records, and they were important, and they were part of my early childhood. So I'm back in that hole.

What was your first record? Oddly, I think when I was really young, when I was five or six, I think it might have been a Bobby Sherman record. And I got it. I found that record. record. Wow. Like, and I got it. Yeah. I found that record. I have that, it has a song on there called Hey Little Woman. It's a Bobby Sherman record.

It was like, he was a teen idol, I guess. He's just saying hey. Yeah. And then I had two Bobby Sherman records, but then somehow, like there was a box of cassettes. Yeah. Like when I was like eight or nine,

had Johnny Cash live at San Quentin. Oh, wow. of cassettes yeah like a night like when i was like eight or nine had uh johnny quentin live johnny cash live at san quentin oh wow it had cosmos factory really yeah they were my parents had bobby gentry's greatest hits oh wow this is cassettes and then it had like uh like a perry como record i don't know and i think god didn't make little green apples it was a cover that record i don't know and i think god didn't make little green apples it was a cover that you did but i had ode to billy joe boy named sue yeah and uh up around the bend all in the same box those three songs on those cassettes because i had to record but like those three songs were fairly important yeah to me that music if you hit it if it hits you at the right time yeah we'll we'll burn a hole that will not heal.

Exactly. Thank God. I love that opening riff on that Korean song. And I had the Beatles' second album, and then I had a Mountain album. Oh, which one? It was like... Sitting on the Rainbow?

No, it might have been a Greatest Hits, whatever that meant for their three records. I was obsessed with the band. They were their three records. I was obsessed with the band. They were great, man. They were... I don't know why Mountain, but I had it.

I loved the song Roll Over Beethoven and they covered it. That's a good one. Yeah. It's funny how like I hear that music and it sounds so much

more heavy than like some of this heavy metal these days or something where it's gotten sort of like operatic or not that it sounds

like opera. Not that it sounds like opera, but it's gotten sort of like operatic or not that it sounds like opera or noodley not that it sounds like opera but it's gotten grandiose in this way sure yeah and more complicated not necessarily blues based

orchestrations yeah not just a few guys right you know doing the heavy riffs right simple you know there's some power noodling

and some strange chord structures going on that don't lock in to the townie rock brain. For me, anyways. I try. It took me, I didn't get hip to Sabbath until like three years ago. Come on, get out of here. I didn't listen to him when I was a kid, really.

Why, because you were scared? No, I just was like, I don't know. I could listen to Zeppelin, but I didn't have friends that were Sabbath guys. Really? Yeah. I mean, the guys, I was in ACDC. There was some Rush involved, which I didn't love. Ted Nugent was around.

But Sabbath. But Sabbath sat outside the class. I don't know why. I had one guy who was into Zappa and the cars I was at a weird in high school

the weird time where New Wave was happening so the old guard held strong but then all of a sudden you know here come the cars

you know hey there's Tom Petty what's happening you know what I mean it's like a little throw some herbs on that old salad man yeah exactly

exactly and somehow Sabbath got left out I don't know why that seems strange man yeah exactly exactly and somehow sabbath got left out i don't know why it's strange because yeah they definitely had friends in the room oh definitely i don't know how i missed it well i'm glad i'm glad that you that you solved that problem that you had yeah i had to go out and do it as a man in his late 40s what what is this sabbath volume four does any why isn't three good enough yeah do other people know about this just keeps going this is amazing well you know what that's pretty cool though I wish that I had like come upon that a little bit later and just had this beautiful broad continent to like

discover oh yeah as a grown-up it's big, that's an adventure to go on. And it's good because it's so intimate, and it's kind of heavy, but it's intimate. It's not overwhelming, you know what I mean? There's some good music there. And Sabbath is not quite an angst-driven. I was angry. I think I was more driven to define myself than angry. I was probably angry. I got angry later. But when I was in high school, I was more driven to define myself than angry.

I was probably angry. I got angry later. But when I was in high school, I was more lost. Yeah. I recognize that in myself, too. I wasn't particularly mad. Yeah. I was just sort of like, where do I fit in?

Yeah. What is this all about? When are they going to figure out that I don't know what's going on? Yeah. What am I supposed to do? When did you sort of drift towards art? I was always into art. I just, you know, the Southeast is not a burgeoning, you know, cradle for the arts.

Really? It wasn't a super nurturing place. I mean, you know, I never felt like I was, and my folks were really supportive too. Yeah. I mean, they didn't understand, but they were really supportive. They were, you know, well, that's what you want to do. Give it a shot. Look, we've got your sister who's good at math.

It might do something stable. Yeah, yeah. So I never felt like it's something I shouldn't be doing. I just didn't, you know, you just felt like sort of an oddball right i mean there was like there was the art department kids where i where i went but like i was hanging around the university my mom was a painter you know so like it was around but in high school it was still sort of like i don't know you know i graduated in 81 you know there were there weren't that many punks around. There weren't that...

There were always those stoners that drew things. Where'd you... Yeah. They were holding up the art end of things. They got really good at pentagrams. Yeah, yeah. Whatever it was. A lot of detail.

And the detail in the joint. Yeah. And the smoke. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I grew up in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Oh, right. But I was into photography. Like, they built this amazing dark room, this amazing facility at my high school out of nowhere.

Like, a full-on professional dark room. So, my junior and senior year, I kind of laid into it. That's super cool. Taking pictures, developing the film, doing that business. Yeah, that's all taking pictures developing the film doing that business yeah that's all lost people don't that's considered like a really strange vintagey yeah eccentric thing to do it's hard to wrap your brain around too like it was i think it was a built-in you know barrier to just anybody doing that particular art form yeah it was sort of necessary because

it's like chemistry definitely weeded them out yeah's like, because you can fuck up at so many levels. Yeah. Because you've got to wrap your negatives around that reel. Yeah. You know, before you put it in the tank to develop it, everything could go wrong at the wrapping. You're giving me like the worst flashbacks now. The bag. Reliving all these things.

The bag with the wheel. And you've got to pop the canister of film open and thread it right so they don't touch each other. Yeah, I'm reliving all these things that I had put in a very safe, dark place. The ruined rolls of film with just blotches on them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you caught the tail end of that? Oh, totally, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I was into it early 90s. I was in art school, so it was still big and proud and strong. Not until, you know, 10 early 90s, I was in art school. So, it was still big and proud and strong. Not until, you know, 10 years after that. I just, man, a puff of smoke. Gone. Like, I saw a movie the other day where it had a woman developing film in a darkroom in a modern movie. Right. She's a photographer.

She's working in a darkroom. And I'm like, she wouldn't be doing that. Who would do that now? All the younger people are, like are looking at each other confused. What's happening? She pulls out a roll of film out of her bag. And I'm like, no one has that anymore. It's crazy.

It's one of those old scripts that's been banging around Hollywood. They just forgot to update. Well, that director wanted that shot of the image coming to, you know, in the liquid. You know, like, oh, here it comes. Look at that. The reveal. I love those. Some movies have these little bits that are just so specific to some technology that happened at the time.

Like these cell phone movies are just going to be like. Oh, yeah. The big cell phones. Yeah. The big cell phones. Yeah. The big cell phones. Or even like one... What was that Scorsese movie? The remake that he did not long ago.

The Departed one. The big deal was the cell phone. Oh, yeah. It was like this whole movie around how they used their cell phones. Yeah, yeah. At that time, those are going to be period pieces.

Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? They're going to be looking at that and dinosaur bones. Oh, yeah. At that time, those are going to be period pieces. Yeah. Like, you know. They're going to be looking at that and dinosaur bones. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and just like almost everything. Look at these strange objects we can only understand through. Back before we were paralyzed by, you know, convenience. Now we don't need to do anything.

But, all right, so, but in high school, what were you doing what were you doing were you drawing things yeah i was way you know that's how i spent my time uh listening to records and drawing i was into comic books yeah um oh really comic book guy comic books and art um yeah just kind of yeah i was game for all which comic books like classic ones or off the grid ones all of the stuff oh really comic book guy huh i didn't i wouldn't i wouldn't have pegged you for that it's all right thanks comics are great i think that's how i ended up in film school actually we're just sort of learning how to tell a story like yeah i i like them yeah never went all in. Like, there was a period there for about a year. You know, I mean, I can't, I was way into it.

Yeah. I think it was mostly because I like to draw and I like stories. And, I mean, you know, superheroes, you know, who cares? Yeah. He's got laser beams and. Sure. You know, any kid likes that stuff. They work for me.

But it wasn't like a. Yeah. There was definitely some later on. You didn't have them. That I thought were cool, you know, as far as just, you know, graphic novels and things I stayed into. But, yeah, that kind of played itself out, too, once I got into movie. I think I kind of lost it on, like, the photography and movie bug. You lost the comic thing.

But, like, some people can't really engage with comics. Like, I can totally do it. It's a weird sort of thing to to follow comics like because you don't i don't have an expensive fucking hobby undertaking yeah there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff to keep up with are you one of those guys that with the weekly dude at the every month you go get your bag at the store the guy would be like, here you go, here's your 30 titles for the month. First one's free. Exactly.

He'll be back. Yeah, subscriber at the comic book store. So you're doing your comic books and you're drawing shit, and then you go to college, art school, you decide? Yeah, yeah, it seemed like the thing to do. I didn't know what else I was going to do. But you were going to make films? That's what you decided? No, i didn't know what else i was going to do but you you were going to make films that's what you decided no i didn't even know about that i mean i knew i liked movies

i was just game what school did you go to a school called virginia commonwealth university in richmond vcu richmond yeah yeah that was a big deal at the time it's still a really great art school yeah huge art school yeah so you get there and are you like like what the fuck did i do well i was kind of scared yeah um you know just first time away from home and you're surrounded by you know you finally feel like you're around your people you know you've met you know because art yeah artsy sure look at all these weirdos who have a hard time talking to people yeah exactly we're all together now which was super fun um but uh yeah i had no idea what i was gonna do i mean i still don't know i'm just still i think you should go with the musician thing sure it's fun why not do that for a while

it's funny though it feels that way though i don't know uh you know i just kind of fell into it yeah i didn't have it's that failing forward yeah thing i just got lucky where were you were you making movies and stuff like it well i went to art school and thought i was going to be a painter got into photography you were painting yeah still. Still do. You do the covers of some of the records, right? Some of them. You do the dog one? Do the dog one, yeah. Yeah.

Do the dog one. You didn't do the embroidery on this one? No, but I told her what to do. I can't sew. No, I found this great embroidery artist named Sarah Barnes. She runs a blog about all these different artists that do um embroidery and she and she did she did the the new one yeah i just gave her a picture man i was holding the guitar yeah that's great it's great cover it'd be nice

if each album was actually embroidered yeah wouldn't that would have been good yeah did you do any special editions of the embroidered cover? There's one that has the back. Oh, one. There's one record? One record. No, it's like the special edition, the expanded thing. Oh, yeah? For the people who like that kind of stuff.

There's one that has the back, and it's all fucked up and looks pretty bizarre. So, all right, so you're painting. Are you a good painter? You mean as if when I walk away, the thing is painted? Yeah, like it looks like finished. Like when you say I'm done, can you look at it and go like, that is done. Well, I've gotten really good at drawing pentagrams and drawing doobies. Doobies.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like so detailed. Yeah. No, you know, it's a good, i just that's how i'd like to spend my time ever since i was a kid yeah i did one this morning you did yeah and what in la you bring your easel with you no i have a little a little pad of paper and like i've i found these little um you know you could bring watercolors or whatever. Just little quick little fun ways to spend the morning. Did you do the cover of Our Endless Number of Days? Yeah.

You did that one? Yeah. That's nice painting. Thanks. Is this supposed to be you? There's a doobie hidden in there somewhere. There's a bunch of doobies. I'm surrounded by green doobies.

I love how he's saying doobie. So where do you start making the music? Because you can paint. It's nice to have that skill, a sense of color and a sense of being able to organize on art like that. It's great that you can express yourself that way. And now you can play guitar, but you're a pretty good guitar player, so you must have put some time into it.

I just, I have a problem. I can only do things that I enjoy. So I end up doing them a lot. Oh, so you obsessively do them? A little bit, yeah. But, you know, yeah, I kind of get lost in rabbit holes. Sometimes guitar, sometimes it's painting. Well, with the guitar, how'd you learn yourself guitar?

Patience. What'd you go, but did you look at a book? Did someone show you? Did you test it? No, I had some friends show me a few chords. I kind of just played by ear. Yeah. My grandma used to, she played the piano in church, but she didn't know music.

She only played by ear. Uh-huh. And she would sing the harmony in church, too. I love that. She would sing and play. Yeah. That takes some doing. You know, just some people got the knack.

But I mean. I wish I had taken lessons. I wish I had friends who were more generous in their cord tutelage. But at the same time, I feel like doing it myself sort of made it my own thing. I think that's true. I think that you don't do any excessive noodling. You don't really pick up the pace too often. You're not like, this one's going to, hold on, here we go. That is true.

That is true. I definitely have a, it's more about the long game. It's an endurance rally. It's an endurance. It's about. It's an endurance thing, not a sprint. Well, it's not a sprint well it's a it there's a tone to it all you know to the way you write songs and the way that the music is layered you know and even when things get different from record to record when they do you know you're

still anchored in the your sensibility Like when your first record came out, and I'm a huge fan of that record. Thanks, man. I think I gave you a lot of money for a song, actually. Did you? Yeah. You should call some people. Because, no, man.

Was that a Bitcoin thing? No. I don't even know how to work those. But at the end of my series on IFC of Marin, the last shot. Oh, that's right. The song I had in mind was Upward Over the Mountain. You mentioned that one when we met.

I did. Yeah. And I kept trying to find songs that kind of sounded like that from people that no one knew so we could afford it. Mine's not that expensive, is it? No, but we had no money. But it was one it's a little, mine's not that expensive, is it? No, but like, we had no money, you know,

so, but like, it was one of those things, it was the last, It's more expensive than that. It's the last show of the entire season and like,

you know, and I was like, oh fuck, I can't even get one song by, you know, a mid-level guy. Not even a fucking

huge rock star. It's not a Beatles song. it's a fucking iron and wine song let's let's scope around the lower mids i consider myself a mid-level guy so but i love that record i love the album being in the mids you can yeah you got more room to go up get room to go down and also you got room you're not falling that far and you've room to go up, got room to go down. And also you got room to- If you fall, you're not falling that far. And you have room to be anonymous. Yeah. It's like, I've been talking about it on stage, like I'm at a mid-level celebrity where like three guys will walk up to me, one guy will be really excited.

And then two guys, like one guy will be like, Mark Maron. And the other two guys will be like, nope, nothing. And then I got to watch the one guy that know me explain to the other two who I am. That's always fun. By badly reading my credits. Or they whip out their phones in front of you. Or they're just sort of like, you never saw it? And they're both, the other guys are like, no, I never saw any of it.

I'm like, okay, I got to go. This says you're super famous, man. You got a TV show? Yeah, exactly. But they let me buy it. They let us get it. It was good. You should make a little money on that. You must make a little money on it. They let us get it. It was good. You should make a little money on that.

You must make a little money on that. I'd do all right. On the publishing. For a mid-level guy. Right. I swear to God, that wasn't an insult. You know, I never had any clue what I was, that I would, I had no idea what I was getting into. I liked music and so all of this

stuff people you sitting here across from you and talking about my music is all gravy to me yeah because you know i'm doing it um as far as uh you know we do okay i'm not like super loaded i'm not right not me too you're in a living right yeah not yeah we get to do the art life and and not have to worry about i don't know i just don't it's it's nice not to have to compromising too much not compromise and not sweat about when it's going to dry up right you know because i remember that feeling for a long time yeah i still get that one no you don't get that anymore good for you i guess when you have a beard, you can sort of, you kind of, I can be

in it a while. I'm going to age out. You can get in my beard for a while? No, no, like if you have a beard and you're committed to it, which you are, you're like, I look good at 42, and if I'm 50, this beard's only going to look more wise and interesting. And the

songs will probably be more reflective and interesting. And the songs will probably be more reflective and deeper. Perhaps, yeah. Perhaps. You would hope. Perhaps. Someone would hope.

Well, you're right, though. Someone just wants me to stop. Huh? Someone probably just wants me to stop. There's always those people.

Fuck that guy. Enough already. Pick up the pace. Yeah. I love your pace, buddy. I didn't mean it. I'm just busting on you. A you can take it right i can take it i can take it no it's fun i'm a fan i'm a fan it's fun i like um yeah it's i don't know yeah i've just recently gotten around to um not always about to be having a panic panic attack about it disappearing i don't know what

what yeah what that is i think it's just sort of accepting relent relenting to yeah people liking it right right or to know that yeah yeah i mean it's a weird thing you do have to go out and do the troubadour business yeah but i like it yeah i like I like playing out. I like playing shows. But I just recently, I think it's just because it hasn't gone away, and I haven't really been making big splashes anywhere. I just sort of keep doing my thing, and enough people come to listen, enough people chime in and say, that's cool. Yeah.

But you're kind of dug in. I mean, like I said, there's no one really like you. But that was what I was going to say, though. The first album comes out, and it's Iron and Wine, again i mean you know you like i said you know there's no one really like you and like but you know that was what i was going to say though the first album comes out and it's iron and wine and i'm like who's iron and wine and then like someone like said like it's just this guy it's like a guy why is it called iron and wine if it's just a guy was there is there more of them no it's mostly just the one guy why is he calling himself iron and wine it's mostly just the one guy. Why is he calling himself Iron and White? It's a real problem for me. It's so confusing.

Like, for the first record, I was like, there's got to be more to it than this. There doesn't. But how did you get from painting to this record? Where did this record happen, the first record? I just was doing it in my spare time, you know? You end up... In Virginia?

No, this was a while later. I went to a film school in Florida. Ah, so you locked into the film thing. I locked into the film thing. I was like way into it. Did you make any films? I made a bunch of student films and some music videos and stuff. I mean, I worked on a bunch, but never really...

Big films or just? Yeah. The biggest one was this, um, I was a scab electrician on the, um, the Patriot. Remember that Mel Gibson?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was, that was interesting. Where'd you shoot? Was that shot down in the South somewhere? Yeah.

South Carolina. Yeah. Um, but other than that, I was in Miami doing lots of commercials and movies and. Oh really? Yeah. But you know, production stuff. Yeah. Other than that, I was in Miami doing lots of commercials and movies. Oh, really? Yeah. But, you know, production stuff.

Yeah. And doing music in my spare time. That's where you were headed. I was doing it, man. I was all in. You wanted to be a director? And then I wasn't. Yeah.

Yeah, I thought I wanted to be a director. Everybody who gets into movies thinks they want to be a director. Were you writing movies? I started writing a bunch and never finished any. It's easy to start them. It's hard to finish them. Yeah. Songs are shorter.

Very. Very much shorter. And they can have a longer impact sometimes. Sometimes, yeah. You know, sometimes. Oh, man. Like you think of some dudes that have 90 records out but you only know two of their songs and then you realize like it was worth it for those two do you know what I mean

if Lee it's kind of fascinating it took me a long time to come around to that like that one song that's the magic one and that magic's not going away it's never gonna go away yeah no even I think you're always working on that song. You're always working towards. Yeah. It's not like a thing where that's the only song I have. Right. And I just laid it on the table and now I'm done.

Right. No, you always got a bunch of songs. You're always working. But there's some people, and I think you're one of those people where the songs are sort of, kind of like they're gems, they're kind of precious things.

Like I've talked to John Prine. I just saw him the other day. Oh, yeah? I'd never seen him play. It was so good. So good, right? Yeah. Loved it, right?

It's funny. So funny. Yeah. But also just beautiful. Yeah. Like, in just a wonderful conversational way. Yeah. His show, you mean, how he talks to the audience and stuff?

Yeah, but even his songs, they're just... Yeah. They're like the opposite of Jimmy Buffett songs. Yeah, I only know of one or two Jimmy Buffett songs. You know, I mean, just sort of giving a nod or winking and saying, like, it's supposed to be funny. But at the same time, it's really clever. Yeah, clever.

Some of them heavy. You know, like real broken hearted shit, man. Angel from Montgomery. That was pretty good. If all he did was that, we'd be all set. And Sam Stone. Sam Stone, Angel from Montgomery. Did pretty good.

Right? set and sam stone samson angel from montgomery did pretty good right but but i remember that the first record it was the lo-fi you know you kind of kind of got timed it right about the sound i guess so yeah i mean because i love like i like a lot of your records i mean i'm not you know i'm not i'm not being a dick so when i want to talk to you i mean i just think you're a good audience so i can get some laughs i like people that could take a hit with a laugh oh i can't take it too seriously yeah it's only life i'm not being that hard on you no but uh but yeah like that record like that's one of those songs are upward over the mountain like I listen to that pretty regularly you mentioned that when we met the first time

I did I'm like obsessed with that song yeah no I mean but I love that I mean what else does an artist want but for someone to say you know you did this thing and I appreciate it

thank you yeah and like I listen to it it moves me every time I don't even know what it means I don't know what you guys mean. But I know, I have feelings about that thing. That vague story in that thing. That one's about mom.

It is about mom. Everybody's got mamas. But when you write songs, do you're aware what it's about? Or do you just get lines? You know, they're all different. Some of them are more specific than others some of them they require less than others you know some of them right to be explained and some right enjoy being a mystery right sort of try to be open to what whatever happens but letting it happen yeah that

one was pretty much specifically about like a mom or about the narrator's talking to his own mother. Right. Saying. Yeah, I got that. We're about, you know, life is about us always losing. And let's just hope that sometimes we'll have hope that it'll win or we'll win. Yeah. And so because, because you know that's

the relationship with the mom and their children they're you know it's always releasing always losing and so um that's what that one's about and that's pretty specific some of them are less so yeah i mean i think i i try to treat them like poems and some poems end up being about you never know when you're getting into it no you don't like i'm gonna sit down and compose this thing about the complex relationship between mothers and sons i mean you just sort of get into it and the lines start coming and then you start to realize oh that's what it's about and right hopefully walk away then yeah instead of developing it start stop cutting and pasting. Keep it on the pad.

Because I've written some poetry and I used to be into it and it just comes. But it seems like when a story happens, it takes a lot to be confident in the story. A poetry story. You know what I mean? Totally.

If it's vague and weird and it rhymes and you've got some good images, that's good enough. It takes a lot of confidence regardless. Just to put your stuff on a piece of paper and put it out there you know what i mean it's really because you're just reaching around in the fog there's no like you just sort of get used to it right it's true man um yeah and every now and then you reach into the fog and you pull back something that you wouldn't have recognized, but you think it's kind of fun.

And you get accustomed and enjoying reaching into the fog and seeing what comes back. Well, that's the whole thing. Yeah. You don't know where it comes from. No. You know, it's kind of fascinating. I mean, I do it with jokes. And I do it not so much in writing, but in performing them, in letting things happen on stage.

You know, where you're just sort of like, this has got to get funnier. Nothing I'm going to do. I can only wait. It'll be delivered one day. You know, I can't force it. You know, I can have some ideas. But it's the same when you write something where you know when a song resolves itself i imagine it's pretty exciting it is fun um i just i just like making things and i think i'm getting

less and less i think i'm liking it more and more i'm getting less and less worried about what it what it should be or what it yeah might be i just let it happen and yeah and you're putting it down and you know you're putting it down and you know the the songs sound great and there's like you know there there's some hints of uh you know that the type of singing and playing that you do and the harmonies and stuff it's got it's a very earthy thing you know it's got a lot of uh foundation and like even like like you know crosby stills and nash and stuff like that right yeah yeah for sure you know like that kind of that that zone which is kind of a magic place because you can

get heavy you can get light and you know and you know you got the delivery system yeah slow i mean not too fast though i think like you got kind of fast on wasn't ghost on ghost in one word so i could get some horns in here. Was there horns? Horns don't like to go slow. Huh? Horns don't like to go slow. But you had some horns on there, am I wrong? Oh, hell yeah.

Yeah. There's like two or three. The whole orchestra, right? A whole bunch of them. Yeah. That was a big deal, right? It was fun. Yeah.

Whose idea was that? I think it was mine. Yeah? I just love that music. I love R&B music. Yeah. And I love jazz. You know, it's fun to try to...

But that was a big departure, that record, for you. No. I don't know. I mean, I think if you looked at the first one and then you listened to that one, yeah, they're significantly different. But if you just sort of followed the footsteps... It's there.

Yeah. It was all headed towards that. Yeah, I always yeah i've i've definitely heard people say that but i i i've always felt like each one answered the one before yeah yeah pushed you a little further into the fog yeah i mean it might not have been maybe just on a production level for sure yeah it was a different kind of thing yeah it was a bigger yeah just lots of musicians and just complicated thing happening but um i always felt like each one kind of just took a little a few

more steps past where the last one went yeah they might not have always been the steps that other people wanted me to take sure well some people just wanted to stay the same yeah that's hard yeah not for some people so especially people make a same. Yeah, that's hard. Yeah, not for some people. Especially people who make a lot of money on that first one. They're like, can you do four of those? Sure. Sure, no problem. Then I'll just... Only four?

Yeah. I'll just keep making them as long as... Until it gets sad. Keep making them until it gets sad. But also I listened to, they sent me that stuff you did with Ben. Oh, right. Bridwell. Yeah, me and Ben.

He's a friend of yours? We grew up in the same town. Yeah, we were roommates. Because like that, that band, like they did a record where like I was, I thought it was amazing.

And I'm trying to remember what Cease to Begin. Yeah, that's'm trying to remember what ceased to begin. Yeah. That's a good one. I listened to the shit out of that record. You should have. Right. It's a good one.

And then I didn't get any more. There's a lot of music out there, man. I mean, I've got to be honest. I'm blown away when people are along for the ride. I mean, I've been doing it for like 15 years. And I can't think of a band that I listen to that I've stayed with for 15 years besides like the Beatles or something.

Right, where you just sort of like, yeah, a lot of times they put out records, you're like, I didn't know they had a record out. Totally. I'm worried it's going to happen to me. Like, I'm just going to like put one out and I didn't even know it. Did that come out?

I mean, but that's a lot. There's so much music. And who's this Jessicaessica hoop jess she's great no i know it's great i listened to that record too and i didn't know about her i didn't know about her either until i did right what's her story she was actually from here she played the hotel cafe a bunch oh yeah um you know a minute ago um. She's a singer and guitar player and songwriter. Super talented. Yeah, yeah.

Interesting person. You could say that. You could say that. Always looks different. Yeah, she's into the theatrics of it, which I think is really fun. Now, I was looking for someone to do a duets record for a long time,

because I always liked that format. Yeah, it's pretty. I talked to Annie from St. Vincent a couple times when we talked about it, but nothing ever stuck. The one with Jess was the one that stuck. It's funny with Annie, because she does this very specific sort of thing sometimes musically, but she comes from hippie shit. Yeah, totally, totally.

She's just got nicer shoes. Yeah, you can try to drag her back into the hippie shit. You know, for now. Yeah, her uncle was a wizard, right? A guitar player. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I never heard it uh of uh jess is that jess yeah i think you know there's i you meet so many people like that they're so talented

and for some reason the stars just didn't align they didn't you know didn't make didn't make connections with the people that they should have but i think her writing was she's great you tour with her too right we did yeah we're all done with that oh was it fun super fun were you doing your own shit and the shit with her or were you just touring the duet thing

well we did the duet thing but we would also play our own songs oh that's good people enjoy it mix it up yeah well we did a thing where

she picked my songs to play and I picked her songs to play so you know just try to make a team effort of it and when you go songs to play. So, you know, just try to make a team effort of it. And when you go out, what do you think, what size venues

do you do usually? You know, it depends on the band. It depends on what, well, it depends on how many people you think will come. Yeah, well,

that's what I mean. Like, I'm curious. Where's your biggest draw usually? Where's our draw? Yeah, where's your big, what are your good cities? Well, Albuquerque's pretty, no. Is it?

Actually, I do love playing there. Yeah? LA, we do fine. You know, the big cities. Yeah. College towns. Sure. Certain pockets have always been, the Pacific Northwest has always been coming to us.

Yeah, that's good. Minneapolis. Yeah, Minneapolis is great. I just shot a special in Minneapolis. It's a great place. Great city. I love it there. So Beast Epic is the new record, and I enjoyed that record.

I've only given it one or two listens. I need to listen some more. Yeah, you do. It seems that... Let's listen to it now. You want seems that listen to it now you want to go listen to it now what's different about this record is it the first record that you had pedal steel on no it's not but like this there's a lot of textures on the record yeah well what do you think like like after like the the the other one the r&b record this is not an r&b record no it's not although you know they're all r&b records in

a way come on i know what you're saying but what do you make of this record like how is it different it's a bit more introspective it's a bit more i don't know know, the other ones, the last few, I mean, I spent a lot, I always spend a lot of time on the lyrics, but I feel like the sonic handshake that was made was more of a music. I was more interested in the music than actually communicating a certain type of song. So these songs seemed like they were more introspective songs. They're more singer-songwriter kind of songs. And so, singer-songwriter songs. Singer. So the lyrics are more like higher in the mix.

You know, they're more, they're songs to be sort of absorbed in a different way. And when you were writing, how long did it take you to put the writing together? When did you have it? Just like years work? Things sitting around for like Some of them. I think these are mostly, I usually have a bunch of older ones laying around and they end up on there, but I think these are mostly newer.

These are more recent ones. Getting older. Kids. How old's your oldest kid? 19. What? Yeah. She just went to college this year.

Oh. I know. Was that weird? It wasn't not weird. Painful? It's painful in a way, but she's really happy, so it makes it easy. Yeah? And then the other ones just tear down from there?

What's the youngest one? She's seven. Oh so it makes it easy. Yeah? And then the other ones just tear down from there? What's the youngest one? She's seven. Oh, my God. Yeah. It's never going to stop, dude. Yeah, that's what this record's about. In fact, I think I just renamed it. It's never going to stop, dude.

The new reflective record by Iron and Wine all right buddy well thanks for talking man it's been a lot of fun man oh man i love that guy sweet guy i felt like i was just trying to get him going i felt like i was trying to like he i felt like he's a good audio. I felt like I wanted to entertain Sam Beam and his beard. I love that guy. I like people from the South. Is that being racist to say that I like people from the South? I think it's being unusual.

That's mean. No, he's a real Southern gentleman, that guy. Seems like it to me. All right, I can't play guitar today. I have to go. I got to be on set in 10 minutes. And my car has a flat tire, and I don't have it. So now I got to play guitar today. I have to go. I gotta be on set in 10 minutes. And my car has a flat tire. And I don't have it. So now I gotta wait

for Transpo to pick me up. And this is probably... Oh, the van is outside. Come on over. Okay. So... Let me say... Okay. Two minutes. I don't need two minutes to say this. Boomer lives!