WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 881 - ​Laurie Metcalf / Tom Segura

Episode Date: January 14, 2018

Laurie Metcalf has never been through anything in her acting career like what she's going through now. After four decades of performances on stage and screen, she tells Marc why everything feels different with Lady Bird. They also talk about Laurie helping to found the Steppenwolf Theatre company, reviving Roseanne for 2018, and mastering the challenge of her role in Horace and Pete. Also, Tom Segura returns to the garage to talk about his new special and to sort out why his wife is dreaming about Marc. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth

at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf it's called welcome to it glad you're here thanks for coming got a good show today i'm doing all and i'm trying to do the stuff that

people do at the beginning of shows oh man what man, what have we got for you today? What a show. And then I'm supposed to tell you what's on the show. Today on the show, and then I'm going to say some names and set them up properly. From the movie Lady Bird and Roseanne, of course, we have Laurie Metcalf is with us today on the show here in the garage. See, I can do that. But Lori is here and it was really an honor to speak to her because I think she's one of the greatest actresses we have at this juncture. Also, before Lori, I'm going to do a little shorty with

my pal Tom Segura. Tom Segura is here. He's got a new comedy special out called Disgraceful. Segura is a very funny guy i always like seeing him so he stopped by how's everybody doing y'all right how's it feel to be uh living in a country that's slowly becoming one of the bigger shitholes on the planet and i'm saying that like like we're using the word shithole now but yeah i have to be honest with you i still believe in my heart that a much larger percentage of people just think that this this president's a shitty person and a shitty president that's the amazing thing about what's happening right now is there really is no way to deny that he is probably the worst president we've ever had but also the fact that he's a shitty person there's just no way to deny it he's he's one of the great

shitty people like right up there with the shittiest people ever and this is not political i am not being partisan i'm not being liberal democrat progressive i'm not speaking from the left this is just an observational reality you can watch this guy for an hour and go like holy shit this guy is one of the shittiest people that's ever lived let alone to lead a country or do anything he's just a horrible compassionless spiteful hateful delusional person this is not partisan politics this is not this is just an astute observation from another human being here's the political part worst fucking president we've ever had here's the non-political part shittiest person i think i've ever seen uh get attention in mainstream culture in in in the history of the planet how's that is that overdoing it just a shitty person

we all know it i'm tired of looking at his face tired of seeing pictures of his face and the weird thing he does with his mouth when he talks and all the pictures. It's this weird pucker hole. Ugh. No shortage of aggravation. But I'm trying to stay chipper. I did go to the Critics' Choice Awards last week, last Sunday. It was my first awards show.

I wore my fancy suit. Me and Sarah the painter got decked out in my new three-piece suit and my new shoes. Felt great. Felt great to be in the fancy suit. And now, like, I only have that one suit, and it probably costs as much as three suits. Three pretty good suits. But I have it, and I'm going to have it forever. But now I got the SAG

Awards coming up. So what do I do? I wear the same suit, maybe with a different shirt or without the vest. Is that how it works? Or does this how, am I just going to keep upping it? Am I now in the world where I need to get a few more suits? I don't think so. I think if anything, I'm on my way out of the world in my mind and in my heart. I'm in Northern New Mexico cooking on a gas stove. That's where I am, making tea, looking at the birds, waiting for the snow to melt. So, the Critics' Choice Awards, my first award show as a nominee. It's actually only my second award show on that level at all. I went to the Independent Spirit Awards once, because I was a

presenter, and this was in a hangar, an airport hangar at Santa Monica Airport, the Critics' Choice Awards. And like I said, we're all dressed up. I talked to people. I got pictures taken. It's always really kind of a weird thing to walk a line and have a bunch of photographers there. And when I walk up, they're just you know not that excited but when an actress walks up they're like hey hey hey hey hey with me i'm like mark maron they're like mark over here mark over here i'm i'm not complaining it's just part of the gig but uh again as some of you know i do enjoy i don't know i like looking at movie stars

i like that's why I like watching these shows. And I, you know, I get to the show, we get seated. I'm at the table with Alison Brie, Betty Gilpin, some executives from Netflix, and then a couple of people I did not know. Food was not great. It was sitting there already when we got there. But a bunch of big tables and it was a huge place.

And it's one of those situations where you, there's so many people there that you can't see, you can't just, you know, notice all the celebrities and you just, all of a sudden, you just kind of moving your eyes across the horizon of folks. Angelina Jolie was right in front of me sitting with the, uh, the, the head of Netflix, Ted next to on the other side of Ted was Adam Sandler. And he was, they were right at the next table for me. And in my mind, I've always thought there was a little bit of tension between me and Adam. And I thought, well, let's get this done.

Let's just go up and say hi. And I walked up and I'm like, hey, Adam. He's like, Marin. Marin, there's Marin. How are you, Marin? And it was a very pleasant interaction. So I did not win. Allison did not win.

Glow did not win. Betty did not win. Glow did not win. Betty did not win. It was an evening of losing for us at our table, but it was, it was nice. And Allison looked pretty and Betty looked pretty and everybody was dressed up. And I, I honestly,

when I saw who I was up against, one of which was Walton Goggins, who I'd like to have on the show. I was like, that guy, that's the guy. That's the guy who should win for vice principals. Are you kidding me?

That fucking character was crazy and funny and deep and fucked up. And I had no expectation to win. And I didn't. Walton Goggins won. But this was great. Walton Goggins got up there. He's like, I can't believe I won this. This is great. But like Marc Maron, I'm up against Marc Maron, all these other great actors. but this was great walton goggins got up there he's like i can't believe that i won this this

is great but like mark maron i'm up against mark maron all these other great actors mark maron who doesn't love what mark maron walton goggins said that now it's very nice of him to say and i want him on the show i don't think that was his intention i i'll take him at his word that he enjoyed my performance and that he likes me but i would like to talk to him in here, so maybe we can make that happen. What's been happening? I mean, that stuff in Hawaii, that false alarm in Hawaii, man, that will be a very memorable vacation

for a lot of people. Honeymooners who are down in Hawaii, that half hour there must have been a real test of your new love, I'll tell you that. I bet you it was a real test for a lot of people that half hour, how you looked at the people you love, your family. I bet you there was a lot of good and a lot of sad revelations in that half hour. A lot of admissions, confessions, behavior in the face of the worst kind of potential adversity. I wonder, I'd like to hear those stories. Someone call Ira Glass and tell him when the time is right to do a story reflecting

back on that 35 minutes. Do with this American life about the stories of the 35 minutes anticipating nuclear annihilation. I'm sure there's some heartbreak some humor and uh just some pure unfiltered terror that elevated destroyed and uh brought people closer uh in terms of relationships i'm gonna try not to try make a trite by making the jokes i made on stage last night about the possibilities of what could have happened in those moments with people and i'm not laughing laughing in a mocking way. It's just a heavy thing to go through. And there's a bit of gratitude we should all feel that our horrendous president was playing golf and probably wasn't informed until after the fact.

So he didn't act rashly. You know, I laugh and I breathe when complete and utter discomfort. It's not condescension or laughing at. It's literally just anxiety and complete discomfort. So Tom Segura is here. And I like this guy. I like his wife as well, Christina.

She was on just recently. And they're both comedians, but Tom is our guest today. And he's got a new special called Disgraceful. It's now streaming on Netflix and he dropped by and this is me talking to Tom Segura. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence.

Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. All right. All right. So this special, though, you just did one, right?

I did one that came out in 2016. Right. The beginning of 2016. And was that the one that went huge? I mean, that one really gave me a nice bump, yeah. I mean, the one before that was not an original, but it was licensed. What was that one called? That was called Completely Normal. Yeah. And that definitely changed changed things for me but it wasn't like on the road yeah yeah but it wasn't like oh my god you know huge it's just like now the the clubs would sell out

right and it but it was also that was gradual it wasn't like the next week right it was like kind of month by month i think the that is very healthy way to have the progress go right so and then the special after that the last one was called what it was called mostly stories and this one's called disgraceful and where'd you shoot where'd you shoot i shot it at the paramount in denver for netflix yeah yeah and so you say it's gradual so now you're selling out theaters regular yeah like what size i mean 2000 yeah yeah yeah so that one was like that one was two 2000 seaters yeah yeah i mean that was i mean that's but that's like pretty crazy to me that that's happening i think i played there i

think i played the paramount in denver yeah yeah i don't know if i sold them all but i think it's nice theater it's it's a beautiful place but, I mean, I'm saying that like that happened, I feel like, over the course of three or four years, right? Right. Where it was like clubs, bigger clubs, rock club. Right. Small theater. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the way it's good because you kind of see it coming. Yeah, yeah. Here you go. Yeah. And also, you still got to work for a living. Absolutely, man. I felt like I really was hoping that I wouldn't have to.

Me too. I was talking to people about like that I wouldn't have to. Me too. I was talking to people about like, maybe I'll take 2018 off. Yeah. That was great. 2017 was dope. I did it. I'm sitting on some cash. Yeah.

But then we fucking, it's so dumb because you think you're not going to do it, but you went and bought the house. I know. And you just, you had the baby? Yep. How many? You got two? One?

No, I got one. All right. So you're probably going to have another one? Probably, maybe. Well, my wife had a dream that you, this week with you. What? That you fucking, that she was pregnant in a dream. Yeah.

And she goes, and then Marc Maron came up to me and was like, that's my kid. And I was like, no more glow for you. Turn that shit off. I'm sorry, buddy. I don't have no recollection of it. Yeah. Yeah. I had nothing to do with it. No you yeah uh but uh i know but then your lifestyle changes you up

you're not yeah yeah like it's just in even if you don't plan to do it it's a weird thing that because it culture forces you to do it yeah you know you're expected to do it and the problem with it is is when you do it you're like this is pretty good of course this is sort of you know even if you thought you weren't working towards that it's like this is what we were working towards and isn't it crazy that it takes you to make money to realize you don't have shit as far as money like you know what i mean like first time you make like you know some money yeah you're like at the end of the like when they everything's broken down for you and commissions and taxes, you're like, I don't have shit. Right.

I mean, I have a little left over. Right. But like, I definitely have to go back to work. You got a kid now. Yeah. How old's that kid? He's two now. Just turned two.

And your wife's very lovely. Yes. She was here. Thank her for the Sartre book. I know it was pressing and she was like, I got to get that to you. She really emphasized I have to bring this to you today i was like i got it well you know she is having my baby so yeah good luck with that kid thanks man yeah i mean you better stop by occasionally i think you'll do a better job than me i don't know i think it's the situation is perfect but if you

need my help yeah um she's doing well too, too. I mean, her special was great. It's great, and she just announced, you know, like, it's exciting for me because I feel like I recognize it from my own experience. Yeah. That she just, you know, announced some club dates. Yeah. And then got a call like, oh, that show sold out. Do you want to add it?

And I was like, oh, shit. So I was like, shit so i was like maybe i don't have to work as hard maybe this time off thing's gonna pay off that's pretty exciting well how do you but how do you how have you always balanced that you know because i remember talking to her and i don't know if i talked to you the last time specifically about you know being married to a comedian but uh but it works out you guys i mean it's the thing is it's always been our norm right you know i mean like it's like i don't know it's like but do you help each other with jokes not i mean not really right really like i i mean there's never been envy you have problems

no there'll be things that like you know i feel like a lot of comedy from any comic comes from conversation sure you talk to people right oh yeah that's my bit yeah so it's like like you know we're talking yeah and then she'll be like that's my shit right there like because she said something yeah and i'll be like oh yeah and then you know you you're kind of adding to the conversation right yeah so in that sense that that that's been happening forever for forever you know but do you have a guy can i have that do you do that oh yeah yeah of course can i have that do you do that oh yeah yeah of course can i do that yeah can i do that and then i also have this thing where i go it's

like living with your writer yeah if she gives me really big disapproval i'll be like that's a good one yeah yeah so like if i say something she's like oh and i'm like that's a that's in the act that's a keeper for sure because you disapprove so hard well i guess what's good is that you're both doing well. Yeah. I mean, if she wasn't doing well, it might be a different situation. That's true. Yeah.

Yeah. Or if I wasn't, oh my God, I'm sure I'd be like so depressed about it. Right. But getting back to that whole idea of like being here, of like finding the popularity. So you don't like, it was just, you just put those specials out there and it happened. That's what did it. Yeah. It's wild, right?

Yeah. It's totally wild, man. People just started coming around. Do you know your fans? Do you know the type of people that come? Is it a broad swath of people? It's somewhat broad. I mean, it's mostly, I'm lucky, it's in-

Grownups? It's grownups. They're kind of in that ideal age range of like late 20s to early 40s and um yeah i one thing this sounds like a brag but we we talk about it christine and i both have been told by a lot of staff like at venues they're like your fans are polite they're laughers they tip well and like that makes us feel like yeah i get that too it's great like yeah they're grown-ups yeah you have like good they're like you have good fans and they might hang out for a while if you keep doing new shit yeah you might hold them

because they're obviously that some of them have families they're taking time off when they're getting a sitter to go see you they're not just kids that are gonna stop giving a shit about you in two years right out of college yeah they're kind of they're like a following yeah so yeah so now you can hold them because they're nice they're grown-ups and now i have that this familiar i'm sure you you definitely have to be kind of in it too because yours came out a few months not that long ago a few months ago right where it's like the thing's out and you're like god damn it now they're and and i know the thing is the feeling is the same uh the anxiety which one the anxiety of like i have i'm back to zero yeah i gotta do another hour but uh but at least it's familiar in other words i recognize it from the previous yeah you know like i didn't know where

the last one was going to come from i really didn't know and then you do it a bit at a time right like you just kind of well what i would use what i would do is yeah you do it a bit at a time, right? Like you just kind of. Well, what I would use, what I would do is, yeah, you do it a bit of time, but then you find like, you know, you get that like 15 or 20 of new shit that's really working and you kind of play out. But like what I used to do is I used to go over to the Steve Allen and just, and just book out, you know, four Tuesdays in a month and just run through whatever I'm thinking. Just improvise an hour and a half to record it. Yeah.

And just think through shit and see see what builds like it's weird though like every time you're up against the where it does come i don't know how you know i don't know i got to get a new one but i have no plans to do a special but i got a tour a little bit yeah i actually this is like this is what my new brain did the old brain wouldn't have done this my new brain was like you know i did a lot of stuff that nobody saw like i did a lot of stuff over the years before i was popular or like that like my epic special not many people saw that yeah so like why don't i do just sort of a greatest hits there you go yeah yeah yeah of course oh i love that part of the brain i'm like i have a whole

cd that no one ever fucking heard. No one ever heard. Did you take it out? Did you do it? I mean, did you do that? No. I know. I don't do it either.

Because those bits die in your head. Totally. It's weird. It's so funny to me, too, where when people are like, are you going to do this tonight? Or like, why didn't you do that bit? And I'm like. You know it. Why would you ask me?

You wanted to see the bit that you like? I did, you know it. Why would you ask me what you wanted to see the bit that you did, by the way, I got so, and I'm people, you know, people get in your head on this last tour. Yeah.

They were like, you should do like, you should do an encore of like a big bit. Yeah. Over like these five bits of people love. That's not bad. So I was like, all right,

man, I go, I still feel comfortable doing it. You know, I was just, I was just being honest. I was like, I don't feel,

and then I did a show somewhere. I forget where I was like, all right, I'll do go, I just don't feel comfortable doing it. You know, I was just being honest. I was like, I don't feel. And then I did a show somewhere, I forget, where I was like, all right, I'll do it, I'll do it. And so I went out and I was like, people have asked me to do this, so I'm going to do it. And I started an old bit. Humongous ovation. And then did the bit, complete silence. Like, no laughs.

There's every, they know the bit it and then at the end applause yeah i was like it's like a fucking performing for my grandmother or something like what do you talk i was like that was horrible were they happy yeah but i mean like there were no laughs like the part where i used to get laughs they were like yeah i know this part i know i know this is a funny part but i already know it yeah it's nice for him to do it yeah i've never seen it live it felt so uncomfortable i was like i'm fucking never doing that never again i mean to me it felt very uncomfortable like like here's the thing with me like i know there's a bit that's about 12 minute bit that i worked really hard on for like months

and i never made it onto a special and i did it once on a TV, like on John Oliver's standup thing. You're good to do that though. Right? Definitely. Yeah, it's like a big piece. Oh, for sure. It was in my book though too, but then you just, I just don't know.

No, that's fine. Right? Yes. And now I got to get back up. I got to get it back up on its feet. That's fine. That'll feel like fun work to do. Yeah, yeah.

I got to go watch it. Yeah. Go find the tapes. I did a private event last year where this, you know, corporate guys, and they were like party guys. I was like, why are you hiring me for a corporate event? And they were like, ah, we're big fans from Texas and blah, blah, blah. And I fly out and I do, and I'm like meeting them five hours before the show.

Yeah. And they're like, I was like so just be clear like you know i'm just gonna do what i'm doing now yeah when i do this show tonight yeah and they're like well we were hoping that you would do this this this and this like all like five old bits and i was like all right and they're like i mean is that a problem i'm like i mean i kind of forgot them but i'll go work on it. So I went to Netflix. I brought up the special. Really?

Then I bought the album on my phone. You bought your own album? I bought my own album, which is horrible because now it plays in my shuffle sometimes, like on my car. I'm like, God damn it. I hear my own voice doing standup. Isn't that weird? Mine's in my shuffle too.

That was horrible. Yeah. What is this? Oh my God. But you forget that like you forget the beats yeah and like the pauses right that stuff becomes muscle memory yeah and so i was yeah i mean just doing it did you load up did you were able to load up i was able to do a few of them yeah yeah but i know i knew when i was doing that that i was like you know

i was forgetting like a tag here right well that's the weirdest thing is like when you get off and you're like i forgot the the the hinge to the joke yeah like i missed the whole middle yeah so what's what's going so it's new year's did you do anything is anything going to change in your mind do you do resolutions would you oh no i didn't do any i didn't even think about it i went to bed at 10 i didn't even fucking did you work no i don't work on new year that felt like a huge accomplishment when you decide not to work on new year's yeah the best thing i haven't done it now in a couple years i talked to uh i've done an early show sometimes i'll do the comedy store at like eight but not i don't i want to be home yeah before the weirdness starts i don't want to be out with the animals oh no are you fucking kidding me i talked talked to Joey Diaz the other day, and I go, he just checks in, you know, how you doing?

And I was like, he was like, yeah, I went down to Huntington Beach for New Year's. I go, oh, you worked at that new room there? He's like, who the fuck do you think you're talking to? I'm not a fucking animal. And I was like, what? He's like, I don't work New Year's. I'm not a pig. And I was like, all right.

And he was like, no, I got a hotel with a wife and a kid. I was like, okay. I was like, all right. And he was like, no, I got a hotel with a wife and a kid. I was like, okay. I just was asking. He took offense? Took offense that I suggested he work New Year's. A lot of people do, I guess. But I think some people make a fortune. But the idea, like, I'm going to do a spot at the store for $400.

Yeah. You know, it's just not, I don't know, whatever. I don't even know if it's that much. I remember years ago hearing it was like folklore about new year's pay yeah people you know right right like people are like yeah you got you win the fucking lottery on new year's yeah right and then wait you get a million dollars fucking crazy for two shows that's nuts i remember featuring uh like 10 plus years ago on New Year's. For who? Fucking, it was a club weekend.

The guy making the huge money? No, no, no. It wasn't like for a huge money thing. But it was, I think it was six shows. Yeah. And instead of $100 a show, which is like the standard feature pay, they were going to pay me $1,000 for six shows. Yeah. And I was like, this is crazy.

This is nuts. This is real money i made it yeah i mean like i'm a thousand dollar show guy on new year's fucking crazy it is crazy at that point it's exciting when you're making like when you're a headliner and you're like a fifteen hundred dollar a week yeah they're like new year's is twenty five great if i could just get this regularly yeah and then you realize the babysitting job involved. Yeah. And that managing from 11.15 to 12.30, fuck that. Yeah.

Fuck that. Fuck it. You just feel like getting out of control and the wait staff is like getting the hats out. It's horrible, dude. And you can't police. Uh-uh. Because they paid like 80 bucks or 100 bucks or something. Oh, you can't be a dick? You can't police. Uh-uh. Because they paid like 80 bucks or 100 bucks or something. Oh, you can't be a dick?

You can't. I mean, I remember one time I did a club in Seattle. You've got to be considerate that night. Yeah. They paid some money. And I'm like doing- You don't want to ruin their night. Doing the show.

And I'm like telling some guy to shut the fuck up. And then the guy that runs the place was like, you're a funny guy, but I don't think you're a New Year's act. That's what he told me after the show. Thank God. the place was like, you're a funny guy, but I don't think you're a New Year's act. That's what he told me after the show. Thank God. I was like, okay. I was like, sorry that I wanted them to listen to the show. Yeah, but that was your misunderstanding.

He's like, they fucking paid a fortune to be here. I'm like, dude, they're like screaming. Yeah. Blowing their horns. That's what a New Year's act has to deal with. I was like, nah, dude. Can't do it. Call Bert.

Don't fucking call me. Who's Bert? Oh oh it's bert kreischer let him do it he'll take his turn he'll love to do it yeah i haven't watched him in a long time are you guys buddies oh we're good friends yeah yeah we're good friends hey what does he do out there i just see i always i just he's a party guy i just see pictures of him in different, less clothing, some clothing. Dude, he's going to be nude soon, and it's going to be perfectly acceptable. Everyone's going to be okay with it? He'll do a Speedo show, for sure. Well, that's where it's going, right?

Of course. On his fourth special. It's time. Yeah. Time has come. Dude, take some shit off. More off. Yeah, he's almost naked.

So the kids, too. Now, how do you manage. More off. Yeah, he's almost naked. So the kids too, now how do you manage that with the... Does Christina travel with you or no? She's her own headliner. She doesn't need to do that anymore. Did she ever do that? She did a little bit. We did a handful of dates, but not regularly. But how do you deal with the kid on the...

No, we never... One of us is always home. You plan it that way? Oh, yeah. Well, congrats on the new special. Thanks,, one of us is always home. Oh, you plan it that way? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, congrats on the new special. Thanks, man. It's great seeing you. Thank you again for bringing the book.

Thanks for getting my wife pregnant in her dreams. Yeah, I just want to help people. She said she shut you down. But I was like, I think you're just saying that now i don't know you're being honest because you realize she probably shouldn't have told you any of it yeah yeah she's like mark said like it's his kid and i'm like uh-huh and what'd you say she's like i told him hell no i don't know what you're talking about and i was like uh-huh yeah sure well i didn't want to cause any trouble it's funny because she's the type i don't know how many women you've had this like that

actually will get in a bad mood about shit they dreamed oh really oh yeah like i've had her be like hey i'm like what's up with you today and she's like oh nothing you're just a total dick in this dream and you were like with this brunette girl and you and i was like in a dream you had and she's like yeah i'm like are you mad at me for your dream and she's like i'm not happy about it and i'm like you're carrying this into the real world right now what are you talking about why would you like i'm not involved in this at all she's like yes you were totally totally rude and you were flirting really i'm like what is going on and how long does that go on for i mean it's gone on for like long mornings you know know, where it's like in the afternoon,

she's like, I forgive you. I'm like, forgive me. What are you talking about? Oh, my God. Yeah. My girlfriend gets a little creeped out by things, but she does. She'll lean into the horoscope a little bit, which is, you know, she's got to. I'm working on a bit about oh yeah

yeah about uh superstitious people in general oh really people in the heart with who believe in horoscopes well because they have the ones that they read it's not it's not a general thing they like she's got like because i don't really go in for it yeah right but she's like but this this woman who does it like i was referred to her by someone else and it's really on the money. And I'm like, what? It's so crazy. My favorite part of it is just when that's like,

yeah. And then it says here that people who get angry and then they're like, and you, and you're like, you mean that I have one of five shared traits among human beings? Well, there's that, right.

There's the sort of like, of course they're, they're going to match something up if you just, you know, scattershot, like you're just throwing a bunch of shit out. It's like sort of like, of course, they're going to match something up if you just scatter shot. Like, you're just throwing a bunch of shit out. Yeah. It's like, oh, look at this one thing. Yeah.

Out of the seven other options. That's right on the money. This one right here, it's all you. And you're like, yeah. Everyone falls into that category. Yeah. It's a weird thing when the brain wants to have a handle on stuff because it just can't. Fuck. Fuck. All right, buddy. All right. Talk to you soon. brain wants to have a handle on stuff because it just can't fuck all right buddy all right talk to

you soon all right that was fun that was a fun dream that is uh maybe i should just leave it where it is i kind of now i want to know about that. I want to know the dream, but I don't think that's appropriate for me to, to reach out and find out details about the dream. So Tom Segura, disgraceful now streaming on Netflix. So I've always been impressed with, with Laurie Metcalf's work and I'm fascinated and know very little about the Steppenwolf theater company in Chicago.

It's sort of a mythic place. It's been mentioned here a few times by people in passing. I guess really probably by Michael Shannon, some other people. But Laurie Metcalf is one of the original members and founders of the Steppenwolf Theater in Chicago. And I was excited to talk to her about that. And I did. She was brilliant in Lady Bird. She was transcendent in Lady Bird.

She was transcendent in Louis C.K.'s Horace and Pete. Obviously great on Roseanne, but really, as of late, just doing completely mesmerizing, mind-blowing performances, and she was great in Lady Bird. So she's also up for a SAG Award. She was at the Critics' Choice and did not win. She's nominated for two Screen Actors Guild Awards. She's also back for the revival of Roseanne,

which I will talk about with her, which will premiere on ABC in March. This is me and the amazing Laurie Metcalf here in the original garage. It's been crazy, huh? I had no idea. You had no idea? You had no idea it would be so crazy? No, I didn't.

I'm used to, you know, wrapping a play, having a little toast afterwards, and, you know, bye-bye, go back to the corporate apartment, pack my suitcase, and fly home. Yeah. So this is the first time in years that you've been involved or you've never been involved with something like this? I've never been involved. Oh, in something like this? No, never.

No, I did a small part in a movie 10 years ago and then the last movie I did before that was probably another 10 years ago. So it's been that long? Yeah. Since you've done major motion picture. Yeah. Film at all? Film at all.

But didn't you do some voices? Oh, yeah. Toy Story. Yeah. Yeah. But that's different. Yeah. Yeah.

So really, it's been like, what, 20 years, give or take? Since you've done a movie? Yeah. It's so weird because I remember seeing you, I remember time many years ago i don't remember was was it internal affairs yes where you played the cop yeah like and i remember like that's that woman who's she can really act she's the woman what tv yeah well i mean you must have got that all the time the woman from roseanne jackie from roseanne yeah yeah that's that yeah that reached a lot of people over the years right but

it's so weird because the way you inhabit characters like I it seemed like two different people but I remember that movie that was a dark movie yeah it was interesting uh I loved uh that was one of the first movies I did and and uh Mike Figgis directed it and the part was written for a man and for some reason she he just decided to cast me and uh you know i mean i remember a scene in the movie where andy garcia and i are sitting in a convertible and a woman walks by so it would have been the man looking her over but instead i got to do yeah her right now yeah so it just made it a little more interesting a bold move on mike figues's part yeah but it was like a that was the one with Richard Gere, right?

Right. And he was the creepy cop. Right, that was the first time Richard Gere probably got to play a bad guy. Right, and he shoots you, doesn't he? He shot me in the stomach. In the stomach. Yeah.

Yeah. I want to go back and look at that. I haven't, I don't think I ever saw it. I don't think I ever watched it. No. I don't. I have like a phobia about watching things

because in my head they look so different. Uh-huh. They seem so different. But this, like, what, and also, like, well, I guess the thing that really was astonishing that recently was when he did Louie's Horace and Pete. Oh. And, like, that monologue, it was sort of, I was- The writing of that thing i still

can't get over it i was sending it to people i'm like have you seen this you're specifically your part yeah and i think that brought you to a lot of people's attention in the sense of like what where has she been did you feel that yeah because it was um well firstly it was, well, firstly, it was so well written. I was amazed when I first read it. It came to me, I remember I was in a dressing room on Broadway and I got a little packet and it said Horace and Pete, but somehow it was tied to Louis C.K. So I didn't know how. But somehow it was tied to Louis C.K. So I didn't know how.

I didn't know if he had written it or if he was going to be the other actor in the scene or if he was just producing it. Well, it turns out he did. He did all those. Yeah. You know, but it was it was a secret project at the time. So and then I read it and I was blown away by the depth of the scene between the divorced couple yeah you know yeah and uh and how they as friends had just kept raising their children together even though they were had a horrible bitter breakup right uh it was so well crafted because it really is just that one scene isn't it yes that was the whole episode. In the arc of 10, that was episode three.

Yeah. It was just two people sitting at a table. For like 35, 40 minutes? Yeah, and it's such a gift to be able to do something that tiny. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I mean, I had been doing a lot of theater and playing to these thousand seat houses,

I mean, I had been doing a lot of theater and playing to these thousand seat houses, but to bring it in that small and just to be able to see every little twitch in somebody's face that you're acting opposite of. Oh, that was one of the hardest things I ever worked on and the most rewarding at the same time. Really? Mm-hmm. And you were on stage simultaneously in New York at that time? Yeah, yeah. What were you doing on stage? I was doing Misery with Bruce Willis.

Oh, yeah? How was that experience? That was odd. That was not a play. It wasn't a movie, and it wasn't a book anymore. Yeah. So I don't know what it was, but we did it eight times a week. For a while? Yeah, for four months.

It did well? It did really well. I mean, it had sold out houses. Did you get along with him? I got along great with him. He's a fantastic guy. He's super generous and he worked his ass off. Oh, yeah.

I didn't know if he had done a play about 40 years earlier. He had stepped in in Fool for Love for Ed Harris, a Sam Shepard play. He was the understudy and he got to perform it for a while. So that's the last time he'd been on stage. That was probably his first job as an actor almost, when he was still bartending in New York. Back then, yes. Yeah, probably. job as an actor almost when he's still like bartending in new york yes right yeah probably yeah and i was in new york doing a play called balm and gilead at the same time it was a really cool time to be in new york during that because mammoth was doing stuff and everything was really

gritty and yeah it was so fun but what was i saying about oh oh misery here's why it was such an odd duck it was because most of the people who came to see it yeah had never been to a play before right you know well that's what broadway is a little bit now yeah yeah so they get to cross that off their list they get to see bruce the movie star off their list yeah if they could have sold popcorn at the thing they would have um and they were just really really excited to be there did the play work as a play no but i had to wrap my head around the fact that it wasn't ever going to be what i hoped it would be but people loved it right it was an entertainment yeah and and was it, who conceived the play? I mean, was it just, was it put together wrong?

Was it written weirdly? Because it's a Stephen King story. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So did they take the play from the movie? How does that work? Do you know?

They took it mostly from the movie. Right. They felt like they had to. They felt like there had to be certain scenes and famous lines. Yeah. Right, right. It had to be in there that people are coming to see the hobbling scene or whatever. Yeah, sure.

But when I went back and read the book, I was like, oh, why aren't we incorporating this really juicy stuff? Yeah. So it was just an odd animal. So by the time you got the Horace and Pete, what was it? Did you do that in a day? We did it in a few hours, but it took me a month to learn it. It was hard to learn. So I would, in between, like on matinee days, in between shows,

I would just drill those lines over and over and over again because I knew it was my responsibility to know it backwards and forwards because I knew he would want to shoot it in basically one take. Yeah. I couldn't. I couldn't. Just the look in your eyes and the intensity of the whole thing, it was completely devastating. Well, you know, it starts with the material.

What can I say? And he was a fantastic scene partner. Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. So what, can we talk about where you come from yeah when you grew up in in illinois southern illinois yeah yeah like what part born in carbondale yeah uh home of siu uh siu carbondale and then we transferred to siu edwardsville i'm i yeah well your father was in the college business?

He was a comptroller for it. That's why I think of the college when I think of the hometown. Yeah. But so Southern Illinois and went to, you know, like in Lady Bird's dreams are to, you know,

get out of there and go as far away as she possibly could. I didn't have the foresight to get as far away as I could, but I went from southern Illinois to mid-Illinois and went to Illinois State University and thought, who are all these people with the heavy, heavy accent that I'm hearing?

And it was just people who had come down from Chicago. Oh, really? I had no idea. That people talk like that? Yeah, or to me, that was a foreign land. And were you interested in acting early? I mean, was there, how many, do you have brothers and sisters? One brother and one sister. Are they in show business? No, no, nobody from my family was, nobody from Southern Illinois was that I knew of. And I didn't have hopes to do it either i was way too practical to think that i would ever be able to make a living at it so so it was just a dream

early i was i was curious about it because i was very shy yeah and for some reason i got up the nerve to audition for a play in high school and i got in and um and i i felt like I could hide behind the character. So I felt kind of loose on stage. Right. Get lost in it. Yeah. Yes. It was a comfortable feeling to be up there.

You'd think for a shy person, it would have shaken them to their core to have to be up there performing. Yeah. But it was the opposite for me because I felt like I could hide. So early on, it was a transformative experience like that yeah you didn't you actually were able to get lost in the part out of necessity and it was a relief yes i got a laugh yeah which was mesmerizing to me and the hook then i was hooked right but um because i thought oh i got it accidentally uh-huh and and so i thought i want to get it again so i have to deconstruct it and see what i did can i do that and i think i did figure it out and then from then on it was like here comes my laugh you

know and i i i yes it's it's addicting it's a real rush especially when you're in control of it right right right well that like harry shearer once said to me that that the reason people do comedy is to control uh why people are laughing at them yes oh i get yeah that's perfect yeah that's that's yes that's what i was kind of hiding from right right so it's empowering it is empowering it still is yes yes and and just to own a stage. Right. You know, because that's where I feel most comfortable.

But do you have any of that shyness still? Or is that gone? I think the theater crowd that I fell in with sort of drained it out of me. You know, I had to learn how to hold my own around those freaks. Yeah. Well, that's sort of interesting, the whole sort of story of it. So you did it first in high school and then you went to college for to did you study practical things or did you study well i thought it was being practiced i was being practical i studied german

and i thought uh well i will be a translator you know german there's such a big calling german translator i know there's never a shortage of jobs. I don't know what I was thinking. I actually did think that that was practical. And then I switched to anthropology. I don't know what I thought. Good jump. Good jump. Yeah.

Saved it at the last minute. I'm really going to take care of it. Sideways move a little bit down to the right. But it is sort of interesting. I mean, like, in terms of, like, did you get a handle on German? Yeah, I did. I've forgotten it all now right you know when i look back both those things had to do with communication uh literally interpreting

which is what i feel like i do now and also about language yes you know when you study a language you really are able to deconstruct a language and figure out the power of it yeah and then the you know studying behavior with the anthropological side. So it was kind of my early steps, you know, jumping on this wagon. Sure, you kind of loaded up your brain, you know, in a way. Well, it was just interest that I had without even knowing. And German's a very interesting language.

I mean, there's a lot of weird words in German for weird things. Yes, I like how it definitely follows the rules yeah there is no rule breaking no allowed right but they seem to have descriptions and adjectives that don't exist anywhere else but in german yes and they put words together right another word right that makes sense yes logical yeah yeah yeah yeah it does and anthropology did you get a degree in anthropology no no i ended up um falling in with that theater crowd in college yeah and i left um a semester early really yeah i went back and got my degree one semester huh one semester but i went back and got it you know but that's funny you must have been really into what you were doing well we were the plan was

that there were a group of us that were going to go up to highland park illinois and do theater for a summer it was only going to be for us who was in this group this was gary sinise jeff perry um and john malkovich you were in college with all those guys yes yeah i met them there and they were already doing theater in college we were all yeah doing it not together not together. But was anyone in the program, the theater program? What was it, University of Illinois? It was Illinois State. Illinois State, yeah. We had seen each other's work.

I will say that a few of us were dating. Uh-huh. You know? Yeah. That's all you're going to say? You ended up marrying somebody, didn't you? Yeah, yes. I ended up marrying Jeff didn't you yeah i i yes i ended up

marrying jeff perry right yeah and but uh john and i were dating at the time oh so so well we we were an inbred little bunch well john i can't imagine what he was like in college i can only imagine it must have been a higher octane uh you know fueled by you know like i imagine the quest for i uh you know kind of a self must have been quite a rough ride with that guy yeah he it was um when john hit the scene you know at college yeah he sparked a lot of conversation because everybody, he just, his presence was a bit off and everybody was trying to figure him out. And I think he enjoyed that very much. Did he come from Illinois? Yeah.

Southern Illinois. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yep. So, okay. So you and John are dating. It's Gary Sinise and Jeff Perry. The four of you drop out and you're going to go do theater.

Uh-huh. In a church basement with 88 seats. In Highland Park? In Highland Park. And we did four one acts. And then I went back to school and they continued. They did another play that didn't do much. But very slowly over the years that we were in that basement people in chicago critics started to take notice

of us and they would drive up and uh you're all like 20 20 years old yeah they would buy their three dollar ticket and watch us do glass menagerie in the in the basement and uh that's the one that actually they really set up and thought that we were worth making the drive for. The Glass Menagerie was a really strong production. Oh, who was in it? Who was directing? I was Laura. Yeah.

And John was Tom. And the gentleman caller was Terry Kinney. I forgot to mention Terry. He went to college with you, too? Yes. So I started off first dating Terry. Yeah. I think he's first dating Terry. Yeah. I think he's a great actor.

Yeah, he is. Okay. So you're in a church basement, glass menagerie. Mm-hmm. So that one really started the ball rolling in a way. And so it was, you know, I tell you, when I decided to quit my day job. Which was? Secretary. I was always a, I could type really fast. Through day job. Which was? Secretary.

I was always a, I could type really fast. Through college you were a secretary? Yeah. Yeah. And when we were starting the company. You can still type really fast, I bet. Yeah. Yeah.

That's a good skill to have. It is. Yeah. That's when I knew that, oh, well, okay, being practical is one thing, but I think I really am going to try and, you know, make a living at this. Of course, I wouldn't have done it if I hadn't been with a group. I think I would have started off too thin skinned and I wouldn't have been ambitious enough to do it on my own. Right. But that crew, was there, like, because Steppenwolf seems to be sort of a defining experience for people.

I mean, as time goes on. When did Joan Allen come in? When we were still in the basement. Yeah. And Glenn Headley. Uh-huh. Yeah. So when did it sort of like, because how much did you really know about acting by the time you dropped out of school?

I mean, what? Yeah, not much at all. I'd taken a couple of classes um but uh what happened with our group was that we just wanted to we challenged each other in ways like just only wanting to make each other laugh or make each other whether um we wanted to work it was all about the work yeah and we were all the same age so whatever show that we picked to do somebody had to either play older or play younger right you know and and that made you stretch in a way that you wouldn't have gotten the chance to otherwise you would have always just been cast as, you know, what you look right for and what your right age is.

But this stretched us in other weird ways. And who was the director? I mean, who was... We took turns directing. If you were the director, that means that you had drawn the short end of the stick because nobody wanted to direct. Everybody just wanted to be on stage with each other.

And it was a collective spirit. There was nobody in charge. You know, you were all founders. You're like one of the founders of Steppenwolf. Yeah. I mean, we would name somebody artistic director for a while until they burnt out. But that was only sort of to go after grant money and things like that. Oh, right.

It wasn't an actual job. No, we all decided what our seasons would look like and who was and cast ourselves. So you're telling me that like, you know, all of you guys were like 20 years old or so. And whatever training you had was just by virtue of your age limited. Yeah. And you evolved together to put to figure out how to to act yeah huh yeah we had a common um sense of humor uh-huh and drive uh-huh and we got lucky in some of our play selections like with true west something like that but no one ever came in no no buddha no zen no guru no acting

coach no like you just kind of you defined it yeah no one was studying acting no isn't that something yeah we got we got really really lucky that way and we were all also lucky in the sense that everybody left us alone we were just a little group up in a Chicago suburb with friends and family buying their $3 ticket to come see us. And so nobody had swooped in and said, I'm going to pluck you out and you out, and we're going to New York and L.A. Right.

So we spent years just together, just working together. Doing plays. Yeah, back to back, yeah. And what was the sort of like, outside of making each other laugh or challenging each other, it seems that over time, the people that came out of Steppenwolf,

you know, have a unique intensity to them, you know, bordering on rage in some cases. Yes, that was a common trait also. I don't know. I think it's that, maybe it's that we were so passionate about theater itself and about the work that it could come off like that. Yeah. You know, we could be, we didn't have to be doing a scene where there was yelling, but

there was still this passion humming underneath it, you know? So I think that long long ago they were calling it rock and roll theater uh-huh yeah yeah but there was yelling yeah that's fun did you choose plays that it required that type of intensity we didn't we weren't really savvy enough to know very many plays i remember us you know like going to the library and checking out best plays of you know 1975 we didn't we didn't have resources right you know yeah so so our selections weren't always the best right but but but but we we you know play we committed to him 150%.

Right. Did you do like Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? No. What were some of the early plays outside of that? Well, the saddest image I can give you is in the very first four one acts that we did, Jeff Perry and I were paired up and we did the lover yeah by um pinter right and that is a mature couple who you think they're cheating on each other

but actually they're just playing sexual games with each other because he goes off to work and then he shows up later in different clothes and they pretend that she's the mistress and it's just their weight of you know having sex right and um right so we were so naive to have chosen that and and it was such a misguided choice but i remember because jeff had a sad little glued on mustache to make him look older. I don't know what I thought I was doing. It was so wrongheaded. But I just remember looking at him in the basement on the stage. And the lights were two feet above our head, sweltering in there.

People are on folding chairs watching us mutilate this brilliant Pinter one act. And his mustache is curling up because of the heat. Dreadful. Did that get bad press? Or were people still excited? I don't think anybody ever reviewed those. Nobody knew what we were up to in the basement. What year is this now?

We talking mid seventies? Yeah. 73, 74, 75, 76. So like the arts were vital, you know, like for people to go out to Highland Park from Chicago, because a bunch of 20 year olds are doing theater in a church basement. It seems insane now. Well, yeah, that took, that took a couple of years.

Right. Until they were willing to make the drive so you guys said the word of mouth right you kept working kept working and you kept doing stuff and then you know it got a buzz so you know people were like have you heard about this you know some people were coming right or were you guys performing for five people sometimes four people nine people yeah yeah and really it was family and friends uh-huh at the beginning you know we thought oh we've got we've got to get some more seats in here let's do some pr what can we do and i think there was a fourth of july parade downtown highland park and so we somehow were on the uh

fire truck uh-huh waving people with a steppenwolf sign. No kidding. Yeah. That's hilarious. So what was the evolution of Steppenwolf? It moved from the church basement. Mm-hmm. To where? To Jane Addams Hull House within Chicago. And so we rented it, but it had more seats and we were in the city.

And then the big step was, well, I'm sorry. And then from there we went, we took over an existing theater called St. Nicholas. They folded and we moved in slightly bigger. Yeah. Still with the eight foot ceilings, but what are you going to do? Right. And then after that, we got a board and were able to raise enough money to actually build our theater, which we're still in. So then you actually, then you had an art director who was actually an art director and that kind of stuff

sort of filled out we had to yeah we we we resisted you know being becoming that formal i guess for a long time but we had to but still the all the originals everyone who has been in you're all members of steppenwolf theater right and then there that it there was never classes or anything offered it's still a a theater ensemble how does one get in it um you get in it by having you know worked uh on stage a number of times and then uh at the beginning we were desperate to find new members because we were just so small that was it limited what was like six of you seven i think at the beginning and when did john mahoney come in oh mahoney came in while we were still in the basement oh yeah yeah early days yeah

um because he seems like he could muster up some angry funny yeah that's right see he fit in yeah yeah he had that we could we could smell it on him um but we we were desperate to find um new additions for a while and then uh yeah so so usually now people um get invited in who have worked there a number of times and and have the same common you you know, mindset. So they'll cast some people that seem right. Yeah, we always have to cast outside people to fill in parts. Right, and if somebody...

And it's harder now for people who have moved away to come back and commit to a show. It's harder. So, you know, it's a long time commitment. And I think the last time I performed there was about five years ago now. Right, because you've got to do a run. Yeah. Yeah.

And that can be like a long, you know. Yeah, generally four months. Does the original crew ever get together? We haven't. No, but I know that it would seem like no time had passed at all. Yeah. I mean, we see each other here and there when we're in New York and go to each other's work. I saw Malkovich in Burn This on Broadway.

Yep. That's pretty crazy. Yep. That seemed like the perfect role for him. Him and Joan. No, Joan. Did I see? Was she the other?

Maybe. I haven't seen her in a while. Yeah, she did it with him. Yeah, she did it in the original. And then you did Balm in Gilead. Yeah, that was a big move for us that really got spread a lot of word about us because um so that play was so production yeah it was so successful and it moved to new york yes and then did you do it in britain too nope nope

but so so that puts you on the map that was a big year that the steppenwolf theater's production of yeah that was the rock and roll age yeah it was so fun to be there then oh it must have been so exciting a big huge break

and you were still you weren't in the basement though at that point were you no no but you were not at the one you have now

but the one before that right yeah so that was like you're like we did it and how long did it run we got to New York you got to Broadway

you know it's the longest run I've ever been in. It was nine months. Wow. Who was in it with you? It was always off Broadway. Oh, off. Who was in it with you? Gary Sinise was in it.

Jeff Perry was in it. Terry was in it. John directed it. Glenn Headley was in it. Joan was in it. They didn't do the move. This was originally when we did it in Chicago. Not everybody made the move.

Some people stayed behind to keep doing plays in Chicago. Right. So did John, he directed the New York? He directed all the versions of it. Huh. Yeah. Did he end up directing a lot? Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, some people, he was, we got really lucky that some of the actors in the company were really strong directors, even though they didn't really want to do it. Right. But I don't know if you knew, but some of the music that we used in Balma Gilead, we had Ricky Lee Jones song in there. We had Tom Waits and Bruce Springsteen, and they all came to see the play. Talk about a rush. That's fucking great. Yeah.

But like Tracy Letts, like in Lady Bird, you work with him, but did you know him? Because he's late to Steppenwolf, right? Yeah, but still, we've known each other for, we figured it was 30 years. Really? Just knowing each other, yeah. But we'd never worked together before. How'd you know each other for 30 years? Just through theater in Chicago.

Uh-huh. But, yeah, I can't. We've always tried to find a play to do together. Yeah. And it never happened. And it took the movie for us to be able to play husband and wife. That's so beautiful, though, because you have that dynamic. You have that deep emotional connection.

Yeah, we did. We did. It made it really simple and in like in surprisingly he plays he's the nice guy in the movie yeah well he's the observer that's for sure he did he doesn't dare go near that mother-daughter um relationship but he burned but he but he he loves her the daughter and both of them in his own way and he's oh yeah sweetness to that yes oh yeah husband and father yeah yeah what was it like working with him it was fantastic he's like a rock you know because he's he's so present and i've always loved his um style it's very

minimal it's very clean he's also like a great got a great capacity to be funny. Yep. It's interesting to see him. I saw him in Divorce. That's what I saw him in. It's a funny character, that character. Yeah. And I've seen some of his plays. I saw Osage County and I saw Bug.

I saw what Freakin' did to Bug anyways with Michael Shannon. I'm fascinated by writers. I mean, because that's where it all comes from. And I don't know how they do what they do. Yeah. So I'm always quizzing Tracy on, you know, how he comes up with stuff. Well, what is your process, though? When you talk about, like, even for Horace and Pete and probably for, well, Lady Bird was not improvised.

Lady Bird was a scripted film. So, you know, when I see you do that kind of stuff, which is totally immersive, like, they're both very different. But I find that both those, the Horace and Pete character and the Lady Bird character, you know, there's a trouble in there, you know. What is your process as an actor you know to you know what do you do well um i take my clues first off from the material so you get the script for lady bird yeah and you were it was written for you did she have you in mind no no um but i felt a connection with it when i read it which is always a great sign um and i could relate to the conflict the mother-daughter conflict in it because i've got i've been through three teenagers

with another one about to burst you have four kids and um and so i i that was really relatable but what i also appreciated in the writing and i knew that Greta put it in there very delicately, were these little moments of heart throughout the movie that go a long way when basically every scene that you're in is like a battle. But they can go house hunting together and they can share opening presents on Christmas together. And then that's the little moment of, you know, of the little exhale when they're not at each other's throats,

where you can see that it's a loving relationship. In a weird way. You know, I mean, the daughter is certainly put in a position to deal. Well, yes yes the mother has a bit she's a little bit passive-aggressive just a little but it's coming from heart yeah you know it's coming from like she just wants to shake her by the shoulders and say get your act together right and also she she she knows what she knows like she you know like that character i would assume that you know even is that you know you do you don't necessarily look at it and think

it's good parenting right i i would imagine that when when you're looking at it in preparing you have to really believe that she loves her daughter yeah right yes but all these criticisms are for a reason right it's not just because i woke up grumpy today right and you make me sick right you know you know it's to prepare it's your job yeah to prepare that kid to be able to fly off you know and so if you look at her and you don't feel she's prepared it's like a slap in your own face oh see that's see that's the trick of that that character i think that that like you know if i if she i don't want her to embarrass me yeah and i don't want her to let me down yes but also i want her to

succeed right right right yeah those are kind of some the The character is really nice and complex because she's also, she feels shame. She didn't expect them to be financially in where they are. Right. You know, there's a shame in that. Yeah. The wrong side of the tracks. Yeah. You know, how dare you call us that in front of people.

Right. And how do you put all that in place? Is there a technique to it or you just do it? You know, is it like, do you keep reading it? How many times do you read it? Yeah, I keep reading it. Keep reading it. I really relied on Greta.

Yeah. Because she was the source. Right. You know, because she not only wrote it, but she directed it. So for any question I had or for any about something specific or what's the backstory on this, why am I saying this right now or Or all the way up to what do you want the tone to be for this scene? Because it's another battle. How do we make it different? Or who's triggering who?

Can we deconstruct it down to that? You'd have those conversations with Greta Gerwig. Yeah. Because that's not always the case with film directors, though, is it? That you have that kind of interaction or that kind of communication about nuanced things. Yeah. No, it's not always the case. Sometimes you're just left to your own devices.

Yes. And some people just want to be. And, you know, that's fine. Yeah. Unless there is a problem. Right. Unless you need the help. Right.

And then it's like the desperate, me help me help me so it's always great other oh you know yeah versus stay get stay back there out of my eyeline i know how to do this yeah right it's like it's a weird seesaw of both those things well but do you have that experience too when you work on television and in film that you know just leave me be i'm i'm looking for a director looking towards well no but you're saying like i got this in tv i have found that it's um it seems like tv directors think that it's um impolite or something yeah to give a note to a character that's been established and that actor has been doing that character for years. So I think those directors, I would gladly take a note, especially a good note from any director at any time.

But I feel that they have a trepidation about it, that you know the character better than they ever could. And so they should just not say anything at all. Because a lot of times in TV, they're just there for a couple episodes, the director. Yes. Right? Yeah.

And they're there also to just the technical side is just, I only work in that multi-camera setting, but it's just to work with the camera, with the DP and the camerap right operator yeah yeah yeah nailed down the technical side sure but uh but like working with greta and working with the how you pronounce her name sersha sersha she was great yeah i know like one of my favorite scenes is the opening scene that we have in the car yeah um we had such fun doing that because it was basically one shot and we knew that uh greta didn't care if we were uh overlapping each other and it just it had a nice messy feel to it it had

every it had the spectrum of emotions in it you know they're crying at the beginning and having a nice time ending up their college drive and then somebody triggers somebody and it's off to the races like at 100 miles an hour until she throws herself out right which was horrifying to look at because it looked way too real it did in the even from my viewpoint when i watched her do it yeah how did they do that uh they had like a um a platform built on the side of the car and i wasn't really driving it was being pulled oh right right right oh yeah that was crazy yeah that was crazy opening i know it set the tone for the whole movie didn't it it's just like i think i know where this is going oh no i don't so when you work with another actor even somebody as

young as her um do you is what are you Reciprocity? Are you looking to length? like are we on the same page here is or is this you know she is totally present yeah she has done all of her homework which you'd think should be a given yeah if you're granted a part to play in something in anything yeah but sometimes people don't always do it they do it in the hair and makeup chair right that morning right you know yeah sure um and so on the first day of work they're just sort of like where's the script where are my yeah yeah yeah yeah where are my sides yeah i should look at this now yeah right um so i'll hold up things while i sit in my trailer for a while uh-huh you know um i appreciate a really strong work ethic because that's how i like to work. And Saoirse is all about that also.

But the other side of her, which is so wonderful, is as much as she cares about the work and is dependable, so reliable, dedicated, she also sets a wonderful tone with the cast and crew. She knows every single person's name. She checks in with everybody every morning. As soon as she walks into the hair and crew. She knows every single person's name. She checks in with everybody every morning. As soon as she walks into the hair and makeup trailer, just everything lights up. She just brings, literally brings joy.

That's amazing. To the set. Yeah. I'm definitely not a remember everyone's name guy. Me either. It's hard. I mean, I can't do it in my life. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. I'm i mean i can't do it in my life do you know what i mean yeah like i'm just

i can't i i don't have any more brain capacity left to right memorize right to to use what do you call those little memorizing tricks you know like a devices not monomic or something like that there's a trick to it yeah to to to learn it and store it away in case I ever need to use it again. There's not enough memory in there left. Right. It does get a little depleted as you get older. I'm finding that. Yeah.

It's a relief though. It's funny. I can still, I have no problem learning a whole play. Right. Right. I'm very good with lines, but I can't remember something I did yesterday like when did we do that right like it's weird right yeah did that oh yeah we had we were at that place you know two days ago yes you remember pages and pages of dialogue yeah so how did you get the part on uh like because rosanne is sort

of the life-changing thing right in terms Right. In terms of career. Right. How did that happen for an actress from where you were at? Where were you? How did that go? Well, I was sitting in Chicago, I think. Oh, really? And I had done one movie. Yeah.

And I had only done the one movie because the casting directors saw Balm and Gilead. What movie? It's all connected. Desperately Seeking Susan. Oh my God. Madonna? Yeah. I remember that. They hired me for that.

That was the first movie I ever did. And then, so those casting directors knew me. Yeah. And when the role of Roseanne's sister came up, this is the weirdest thing. I had gone from Chicago just on a fluke. I had like two weeks between plays. I'd gone to L.A.

Yeah. To thinking, well, maybe I can get a movie. Right. Sure. Why not? I was there for two weeks. I slept on somebody's couch. And it was during those two weeks that they were casting Roseanne.

And I happened to be in town. And they brought me in. And they didn't have the sides written for the sister yet. So I just read Roseanne lines. And I got the part off of that. Wow. In the first two weeks that I went there. Yeah.

And I got a car. And I didn't have anybody to vouch for me or anything. So Gary Sinise had to come over and co-sign for it. He was in L.A.? He was in L.A. Uh-huh. And so that was it. Then the rest is history.

You're on Roseanne. The next nine years were. Yeah. Nine seasons. Crazy, right? Yes. You became a real family. Yes, we did.

Yeah. Yeah, and the kids grew up on it. My kids grew up on it. And my kids grew up on it. It's crazy. And you have one daughter who's an actress? Mm-hmm. And she's doing well? Yeah.

That's my daughter with Jeff Perry, Zoe Perry. Yeah. And she's on Young Sheldon. She's the mom on that. Oh, it's- Which is so bizarre because I'm his mom on Big Bang. So we're playing the same person decades apart on concurrently running shows.

They did that on purpose. This can't have ever happened before. No, but that was obviously intentional. It was good that your daughter knows how to act. Yeah, they created the spinoff without thinking about her. But she was on the radar

to be brought in to read for the part sure sure and she got it that's that's hilarious but and also you're doing the new rosanne yeah we did it how many did you shoot nine and then they're going to be on where um on abc oh you're going back home yeah isn't that something we yeah we really went home we went back to the same lot. And they rebuilt the set? Yes, they had to recraft it from scratch because it had been destroyed. I think they saved the couch. I think I heard, maybe this is a rumor, that the couch is in like a Smithsonian.

I don't know. Or the Afghan, something like that. But they had to, down to the wallpaper. They don't make the wallpaper anymore. They didn't update the house at all? There's a new fridge. That's it they're still there huh yeah yeah it was uh surreal walking onto that i can't imagine because it had been 20 years since it ended and it had been 29 years since the pilot i know that's freaky and horrifying at the same time. Now, when you work, like I imagine the character of Jackie over time, you audition, you get the part.

And doing three camera shoots on a soundstage, it's almost like a vaudeville. It's like a play, but it's a little more controlled and you stop and start and the audience is part of it. You do, and there is a live audience. Yeah. But the live audience is about as play-like as it gets right right that's right because you just stop and start and there's no yeah but that character how did that you know you had to evolve that character in real time um i you know i'm not sure how I got cast, actually. But over time, the writers, who, like I said, I have so much respect for. That's where it all stems from.

But they would notice, like, what my strengths were. Yeah. And then they would start writing for it. Yeah, that's great. And so they evolved it. Right, right, right. Without me even knowing. But, you know, in real time, almost.

Yes. Right. Right. Without me even knowing. In real time almost. Yes. Sure. So now I've heard that in this new bunch of shows, Roseanne shows, that Roseanne, who I've had in here as well, she's Roseanne. And she's great. She's a force of nature. She is. And I have a lot of respect for her.

We had a good time. She ate some cantaloupe it was a good conversation but in the show she's uh she's a trump supporter right and the rest of the family is not uh we don't i'm not okay and the rest of the family i have no idea about we don't get into that oh you don't no but she and i have a conflict over in it's and it's we only deal with it in the first show uh-huh um because the stories have remained really about the family right and even though we're talking politics in the first show it's still about the family the rift that it's caused between the sisters which has caused in in other families sure it It goes even deeper than how they voted.

Right. You know, so we go, it makes them go way down and see where this, where their weird power struggle has always been there. So ultimately. The voting like highlighted these other deeper problems that they have. So I think that that's that that's the kind of writing that rosanne always had you know she she could take sensitive issues or um uh dramatic issues and the the the show could handle the weight right those whereas on other sitcoms

it would be too jarring if they were talking about like abuse. Right. But it comes down to the family. Yeah. It always comes down to those relationships. Yeah. Yeah.

So that's how they've started this new small arc that we do. And what is, and like being with John and everybody, like it must be so odd. It is. And yet, it's so comfortable. Yeah.

And it's really like no time has passed at all. Like we took a hiatus week. Yeah. And we came right back to start season 10. That's so wild. Which is what it would have been. You know, it's so cool because the scenes that they've written now, you can play that you have a history with another character. Yeah. We really do.

We're living it. Right. You know, I stood off stage, off camera, and watched the daughters have an argument together. Yeah. And just thinking, that goes back so far yeah you it's so cool yeah to see them now in their 40s wow and still sisters yeah and in that same environment and it's also cool to watch darlene's character parenting her kids in that same kitchen. Yeah.

With Roseanne standing off to the side judging it. Yeah. You know? Wow. Because of their history. Yeah. It's really fascinating. And did everyone get along? Everybody.

Yeah. Everybody had the time of their life. And if it's well-received, which I hope it is because everybody felt that responsibility. Yeah. Because people loved it so much that you don't want to taint it in any way. Everybody would come back and do it again. Really? Oh, yeah.

It was fun and creative. That's wild. Who's writing on it? We had some of the old writers and some new writers. So Bruce Helford, Whitney Cummings. That's the old and the new. Wanda Sykes was on it. Norm Macdonald came back

for some wow the whole crew yeah that's amazing and like and so Lady Bird this whole journey

with this thing as a film you were at the Golden Globes mm-hmm and then you're going to we're going to SAG SAG Awards yeah

tonight I'm going to the LA Film Critics Association they gave you you were the you were one of the best to we're going to sag awards yeah tonight i'm going to the la film critics association they they gave you they you were that you won the best sporting actress with them and new york right uh not new york oh god no this one so i'm going to that tonight and then sags are in a week and it's exciting right yeah yeah oh look this is a whole new experience for me i've never been on a train like this ever didn't you win for rosanne emmy i won an emmy i won some emmys yeah but it was a hundred years ago you know it wasn't the show that it is now yeah yeah yeah it's something huh it is and there's a strategy oh yeah and you have people you have people i want people, but I got to sign some people.

Yeah. So it's very exciting, and I'm happy for you. But what do you want to do? Do you still love doing theater? Yeah, I'm going back in a couple of weeks. To do? I'm going to do Three Tall Women by Edward Albee with, wait for it, Glenda Jackson. Wow.

Right? Yeah. I can't wait to get Glenda Jackson. Wow. Right? Yeah. I can't wait to get in the room with her. Directed by Joe Mantello, who I adore. He's been around a while, huh? Yeah, yeah. Is this, where's it going to be, in New York? Yeah, at the Golden in New York. So we start rehearsing in like two weeks.

Glenda Jackson. Yeah. Wow. I haven't seen her in a long time. Well, she's been in Parliament for like 25 years. Really? Yeah. She won two Oscars, quit, served in Parliament for 25 years, and then came back to theater by not easing her way in, but jumped into playing King Lear.

She was Lear in a production in London. How was that received? Very well. No kidding. Yep. That's insane. Who was that woman, I always forget her name, Lois? Smith?

Yeah, that was in Lady Bird. She's wonderful. She's so good. She's fascinating. She makes it look so effortless, doesn't she? Yeah. And she's done some amazing stuff That had a wonderful ensemble

Yeah it really did That movie It really did You got movies coming up? No Nothing? No one's saying you want to do a movie? Nope

Do you like doing movies? It's a little tedious isn't it? I can't say that I like doing them. And it's only because of the way you have to approach them. I mean, from working either backwards or skipping around. Waiting, coverage. Yes, yes. That's truly a tedious part of it and uh i i don't know

i'm just uh i'm just such a theater rat and so but how long what's the initial run for three tall women four months oh well good you know so you're working you're happy this movie's great you're on you know you were great in it and uh i'm just thrilled to talk to you i know you got to get to a thing you got a sag screening now uh-huh so you got to go do a panel you like doing the panels i just can't say that i enjoy any of it well if anything came up here that would you know you can use on the panel just go ahead you've already you know what i mean you talked about it because that sometimes that happens when you talk for a while you're like i'll just bring that up yeah i talked about you probably talked about ladybird a lot of these things how many panels have you done well those yeah the say those sag panels it it's it's nice i guess you know especially if you go

to a screening and you get to see some of the actors come out afterwards and answer questions you know that's exciting it's exciting for i, it would be for me, you know, if I was... Have you done the SAG screenings before? No. Oh, you haven't? No, I don't do any movies. No, but I mean, like for this movie, have you already done a few SAG screenings?

A few, yes. Because some of the same people come. Oh, they do? They come back to see the movie again? They come back to see... I did some with GLOW, and I swear to God, there's about four or five that have come to every one of the SAG screenings just to get-

Just to get to see the panel afterwards? Yeah, just to hang out. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's exciting. You know, it's exciting to see people in movies. I still like- When I was at the Critics' Choice, and I was doing the line, they were asking me,

do you like coming to these? I'd never been to one. I'd never been- That was my first- I've never been to the Emmys or nothing. I've never been nominated for nothing so that was it and really just like i like looking at movie stars i like seeing people that i really respect right i i'm not ever going to approach right but i just like seeing them just just to make sure that

they're real exactly yeah exactly gary olden was at the next table and i just get every once i'll be like yeah it's a guy he's just a person yeah yeah you didn't you didn't meet anybody you didn't oh i've met people at all of them so far yeah yeah yeah it's it's it's great to have something you know that look i feel like i'm the the been eaten at the kid table for you know yeah up till now and now i'm at the grown-up table. And thankfully, I have something to talk to them about because I was in a movie, you know, that's getting, you know, I have a reason to be at the grown-up table.

Well, congratulations on being at the grown-up table. Thank you. Thanks for talking to me. Thanks. What a sweet genius. She's amazing. I love talking to Lori Metcalf. I hope you like that as well.

Again, Lady Bird's amazing. The revival of Roseanne will premiere on ABC in March. And just a real honor talking to her. Okay, I got a guitar here. All right. Okay, I got a guitar here. Alright. Thank you. BOOMER LIVES! Boomer lives! can't get a nice rank on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders? No. But chicken tenders? Yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too.

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