WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 883 - Macaulay Culkin / Cameron Esposito

Episode Date: January 21, 2018

Macaulay Culkin considers himself retired, dabbling in whatever he chooses at any given time. It's understandable he would want to settle down, considering he was one of the most famous people on the planet by the age of ten. Mac tells Marc about the struggles and the joys of his acting days, much of which was shaped by people like John Candy, John Hughes, Michael Jackson and Mac's father. Also, comedian Cameron Esposito returns to the garage to talk about the recent bus tour she took with her wife. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth

at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fucksters what's happening i am mark maron this is my podcast

wtf welcome to it full show today couple of guests two guests we've got got Cameron Esposito stopping in for a shorty, a short chat. And then Macaulay Culkin is here. Macaulay Culkin. I don't know how that happened, but, you know, Macaulay Culkin is Macaulay Culkin. And, you know, when somebody says, you know, Macaulay Culkin wants to come on the show, I'm like, what's that kid been up to? What's he doing? Where's he been?

What does that life look like? Let's see if he'll talk about it. So I talked to Macaulay Culkin. I like to say his name, apparently. Cameron Diaz. Cameron Diaz. Cameron Esposito. He's got some stuff going on.

I like her. I like her comedy. I like her. She was on my show, Marin. She's a friend of the show. Nice to have her back. What's happening? Where are we at?

I apologize if you hear a slight machine noise in the back. I'll try to talk over it. I will try to do that for you. You see, there's shit going down here. There's stuff going on. There's a guy out there. He's blasting away at the exterior of my house, chipping away at the, what do you chipping away at the at the uh what do you call it at the stucco gonna redo some stuff out there get that painted up

inside the house the floors are done new moldings happening it's all painted nice and white and i do have that feeling like what am i doing why am i going what but i'm still out here in the garage and i did make the mistake of of cutting my internet i cut my cables so we could pull the cables out through the wall so we could do the work on the wall thinking like i don't need this anymore thinking that the cable had nothing to do with my internet and then realizing on the way over here today that i get the the internet from the cable company and i cut it i literally cut the cord people um i can't i can't google i can't tweet i can't uh wiki i can't do anything i'm going old school got to make notes i'm reading this off my phone i'm reading the ad copy off my phone i was surprised

that i actually i printed stuff off my phone without the Wi-Fi. I learned new things right in time. You can still function. I'm still connected. But so look, today is what day is it? It's Monday. And the truth of matter is, I don't know what happened yesterday because I'm recording this before I go to SAG Awards. There's a couple of things I want to tell you. I'm recording this before I go to the SAG Awards. There's a couple things I want to tell you. I'm excited.

I'm very grateful to be nominated by my fellow actors and actresses. And I don't know what my chances are. I certainly don't anticipate winning. I do want to tell everyone that I'm going to be wearing the exact same thing that I wore at the Critics' Choice Awards. So if there's anyone out there thinking that I would not do that or that wasn't the smart thing, if that's what you're focusing on, like why did Marin just not wear the vest with the suit?

Because I'll tell you why. I spent a lot of money on that suit, and I'm going to wear every piece, and I'm going to wear the white shirt and the black tie. I don't want any fucking guff. That's what I'm wearing. It's not like anyone's making notes. It's not like I've got to walk the red carpet carpet and people are going to be like, why isn't Mark Maron wearing a different dress?

That's the only way I would not wear the suit actually, is if I was wearing a dress and I'm just not that bold. I'm not that bold, folks. I don't know what to tell you. Sorry. Maybe next year I'll wear a dress. So basically what I'm saying is that I don't know what went down yesterday because I'm recording this the day before yesterday.

So I'll walk you through it when I come back on Thursday and tell you what happened. If everything works out, we'll all still be here Thursday. I'll still be here Thursday. Maybe I'll have a story to tell. We'll see. I don't want to keep going here too long because I do have a full show and I don't know the noise is kind of

bothering me in the background and also maybe I'm going to have to re-hook up that wifi can I just go to Radio Shack and get the thing for the you know I cut off the top of the coaxial cable but I think I can just get the top of a coaxial cable at Radio Shack and then hook it back up through the window yeah maybe i maybe i'll get on that maybe that's my job

i find myself focusing on uh mundane uh kind of uh not repetitive things but things that'll cataloging and and fixing small things over at the new house i i went through all my all my seven inch records and i don't even play seven records. I'm not sure where they all came from, but I decided it was time to go through them for an hour or so, so I don't think about the darkness. You know what I'm saying, folks? The darkness. A lot to be grateful for, right alongside with a lot to be terrified of. All right, let's ease into Cameron Esposito now. She's got a new stand-up record. It's called Back to Back.

It's a double album featuring a set from Cameron and her wife, Rhea Butcher. You can also check out her podcast, Query, with Cameron Esposito and hear her on episode 575 of WTF. Get that on Howl or Stitcher Premium. And she's also featured extensively in our book, Waiting for the Punch, Words to Live By from the WTF podcast. And she's back here with me now in the garage. Please welcome. What am I doing? I'm setting it up like a television show.

This is me and Cameron Esposito chatting here in the last days of the garage at the Cat Ram. It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Gold tenders, no.

But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those, too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category,

and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Did you buy a house? Not yet. We're looking right now. Do you have kids yet? No. Are you gonna?

I hope so. It's like a real race right now, you know? I mean don't know you have no this is nothing to do with your life but it's a real race because i'm trying to figure out like age wise well just how stable do you have to you know how our job yeah is really sure don't know if you're going to have any money. There's just a, it's just turns out ebbs and flows. Sure. And I don't know how you're supposed to make decisions that require stability. I, you know, I, you know, it seems that a lot of people don't even consider it. They just have the kid.

What is, well, so, okay. Yeah. Those people probably are straight people who can just like magically accidentally make a kid not that all that's right takes a little more effort not that all straight people can but when you are in the position where you have to plan it right then i think you get stressed out about trying to figure out the perfect time yeah man because like i mean there seems to be many level of planning like where are we going to get the stuff who's going to carry it or is that even how i'm going to do it like get an already made one yeah and because there's a lot of those and they need but that's expensive too yeah and then also just like who do you even ask you know

there's the initial like imagine if today you had to go it's like that episode we did yeah it's really intense yeah i'm in that zone i'm in the zone of the episode of your television show. So you guys are talking about it. Yeah, I mean, we've been talking about it for a couple years. I think when you're a woman in your 30s, it's not even an option to not think about it because other people bring it up all the time. And then you have to think about it. You got to make a decision. You have to make a decision

and i know i want to have kids but you know there's also think about the number of women that do our job that like just didn't have kids it's because like your 30s is also yeah that's when you're making and doing your thing it's the whole thing yeah you're you're figuring it out yeah you're going from like feature yeah you know working the road to whatever you're going to be whatever like yeah like that that 30 to 40 range is like the moment it's your moment and like i talked to sagura yesterday and he and christina have a two-year-old and they're both on the road and they alternate like they plan i guess if one's out the other one's home and that kind of deal yeah i know i feel like i so i've i toured ria and i we went on a bus tour this fall which was a big thing for us

how many dates um we did 17 on the bus and we we flew for four more so we did like 21 all together you rented a bus yeah to do 17 dates 17 dates. Why did you need a bus? It was awesome. We did it so fast. Have you ever been in a bus? A tour bus? Yeah, it was like a rock star tour bus. Well, how many people were on your tour, on the show? It was Ria and I, and also our tour manager. On the whole bus?

Yeah. Oh, you just... And we had a driver. Did you record it? Yeah, it's an album that was just number one on iTunes for a couple for a couple oh this is this is your new album yeah that's called back to back it's from that tour so you know i felt like as a comic i'm trying to figure out how to like transition into more of a i don't know an appointment uh-huh as opposed to like i don't play clubs anymore i play theaters right you play

theaters you play bigger theaters than i do i don't know that probably yeah depends yeah um and so i'm you know in that transitional right too which also is just like a different thing because you just don't know what's going to happen next so even like if it was about money is that what you're talking about i mean it's money but it's also like what's the worst that could happen that people stop coming no i'm trying to figure out like is this the time that i need to knuckle down and make all the shit happen like if i was just going out every weekend and playing a club in a static way yeah um at least you can kind of plan around that but like right right now right when you do a

theater tour it's like you you know you got all these dates to knock out it's like nuts and then you got to build the next hour yeah you're feed the monster yeah i'm shooting for a whole i'm trying to get real famous and big mark i'm trying to get real big and famous how's that going i think it's going okay so this oh so is this but it's just you're is it both you on the record or just you we did this thing where the two of us perform together up top right then i and then she does a half hour and then i do a half hour so it's like 90 minutes but split into three different sections that's what's on the record that's what's on the record that's great and how did that go did it it work? It was awesome. Oh, great. It really was. I think we're doing something that, not I think, we're doing something that doesn't really exist, which is like when we're on stage performing together, talking about both

sides of a relationship, you know, how much of our stuff is talking about a relationship, but we don't often get to hear like, the other person doesn't usually come out and be like, and actually go fuck yourself right their side of it so it's pretty cool that's great and I'm like

into it I think it's fun because also it just keeps stand up not stale yeah and are you the straight man actually

actually no there really is a I'm like the I'm like the loon or whatever oh really yeah and I'm like the dreamer and then. Oh, really? Yeah. And I'm like the dreamer.

And then Ria's the straight man, really. Yep. That's great. It's fun as fuck. What happened to the CISO show? What happens to that thing? I talk to people who are like, I had someone on the show who had a show, a special coming, Brent Weinbach.

Yep. Weinbach. He was like, I don't know if it's coming out. We were talking about before it was yes to happen and the whole thing what did it all go under is it still on or no doesn't exist went away there isn't there is no streaming platform currently that exists that's called cso so how many episodes of your show were on there so we had a first season that now no longer exists anywhere, except I think the pilot might still be on YouTube, but I have to check. How many episodes? Six the first season.

Then we made an eight episode second season that. Never got posted? It just doesn't exist anywhere. And we tried to, you know, we don't own the thing. Right. We made the thing. It took two years of our lives. We don't own the thing. we made the thing it took two years of our lives um we don't

own the thing we can't put it anywhere and then the people that are now involved with like trying to sell it or place it yeah are not the executives that i would have known it's like it's it's now back to kind of like the corporate overlords it's it's like it has nothing to do with people that own cso which is nbc universal so it's like it's like whoever is with- You mean the people that own CISO? Which is NBCUniversal. Oh, that's NBC. It's like whoever is the- So now it's NBC property. Business development guy that works at NBCUniversal that you and I would never meet because we're on the creative side.

Sure. We would meet like the creative execs. Those people all have different jobs now. But they own it. They own it. And I don't know that it will ever go anywhere. So essentially, it's kind of like I went to grad school, learned how to be a showrunner, and learned how to make a show.

Yeah. And the show doesn't exist. Well, I mean, have you tried to buy it back? Do you have a couple? What? How many millions of dollars can you spend on zero? Is it that much? Yeah.

Yeah. I can't buy it back. I don don't have the i don't have that like i'm trying to i'm trying to buy a kid i know you know but but did you have what did you have your agent have these conversations of trying to oh yeah i mean this is all wrestle it away there are many people involved in this teams of people working for me and our production company comedy bang bang and like there it's and there also isn't really like i don't even know that that there's a fault here i mean it's literally just like paperwork it's just exactly that's the problem they don't want to do and they don't care if they don't do anything with it because it's because it's gone to the stage of paperwork so once something's in the stage of paperwork it's just literally like okay so we can actually afford

to just drop that amount of money in the trash. Right. That's what this made me realize is how much like mega conglomerate corporations. Right. How much they actually have. That they can just be like, you know, it's kind of more worth it to us to never put it anywhere. Yeah. And why bother selling it?

That's going to take more paperwork and manpower. Yeah. You know, unless someone's really going to step up with some big bread and and people did i mean we had a lot of interest it was a weird this has been a very weird experience well what do you mean what happened you had people you guys sought out people no there was like a save the what i did was i just posted our stats for the second season because we were really deliberate about our hiring so we had an all female writers room for two seasons and we had a 51 out queer cast so the actors that were playing the roles were actually queer folks yeah i believe it's the biggest at the time it was like the

biggest cast of out queer actors to ever exist in a single season of television i just posted some of that stuff yeah um and it kind of went viral and like Vanity Fair wrote about it and, you know, huge. Yeah. Publications. And then because of that, we got some calls, but it just didn't, it just wasn't the right thing. You know. Do you take it personally? I don't take it personally.

That is actually my takeaway is how impersonal it can be. Right. Because for me, that show was really personal you worked on it with my wife and it was based on our real relationship and the people that we worked with were so personal with us it was really my first experience of like oh this is a you know this is the stop the stock market like people invest in shows because they want that to pay off because they want you know whoever this is the stock market. Like people invest in shows because they want that to pay off because they want, you know, whoever to advertise on the show. Like this is-

Yeah, it's all about money. It's not about our little dreams. Our little dreams are floating on the back of something much bigger. Oh yeah, yeah. They're just, you know, floating on the back. That's, yeah, that's nice way to put it or just completely

shit out yeah something much bigger oh yeah they don't care and i think that part of that what it doesn't care shouldn't say they it yes that's what i'm trying to say is that i don't actually think there's anything sinister involved here right and i don't know if that and that doesn't it's not like i like sleep well going oh it wasn't sinister i just i go oh shit it wasn't sinister well then what does that mean about our industry oh, it wasn't sinister. I go, oh, shit, it wasn't sinister. Well, then what does that mean about our industry? If it can't even be personal enough to be sinister, would it be better if it was? I don't know.

Yeah, it's just stuck is the problem, the bigger problem. Because it seems like there would easily be an outlet for it. You just can't get it free. And that sucks because it's your work. But you sign away that right. And you sucks because it's your work. But you sign away that right. And you just think it's going to be okay. You don't think it all the way through or whatever. You don't have a choice. So now something like this happens and you're like, it's like party views being held hostage.

Not for sinister reasons. For bottom line reasons. And there's nothing you can do about it. Yeah. And you know what you do is you go out on the road and you tour and you actually meet people that watch the first season um i mean that's what ria and i did we when i when we found out about this we were gonna go the fall tour that we were supposed to go on was actually like a promotional tour which was part of the reason for the bus it was going to be wrapped did they at least like take my wife and stuff like that um were you able i can't comment on that uh

no we paid for the bus yeah we paid for the bus um because it was already the dates were already tied to you can travel faster in a bus than you can on a plane because you fly overnight sure so like you get done with the show you go to sleep and then right you're at the next place you're at the next place the next morning so we were kind of tied to it being on a bus and so we just decided like all right well if that's the case then like keep the bus let's just be let's just let that be rad you know like let's just make a bunch of merch and toss it in the back of the bus and do this big thing. Like, let's do it up.

And you have fun. It was our first time being on tour since the awfulness of our president. I don't know if you've been out lately. Yeah, sure. Yeah. It was incredible. People waited. We would have these huge meet and greets.

Yeah. And people would wait for like an hour and a half to talk to us. Yeah. And I think part of it is just like. Community. Yeah. How important that is right now. Yeah.

People just feeling like. Right. Oh my God. Can I. Right. Can I just shake somebody's hand. Yeah. Is there anybody that will give me a hug.

Like. You know. Yeah. And it was really amazing. And gratitude. To get to do that. That you a hug? Like, you know, and it was really amazing. And gratitude that you're speaking that truth, you know, or that representing, you know, it means a lot now. Yeah.

It was a lot of listening too. A lot of people wanted to talk about their stories, which is cool. I mean, I, it's cool. It's also, it also feels like way too much responsibility. Not in a, I'm not like, I wouldn't, I wasn't shutting anybody down, but it is wild when you get to the point where people are talking to you about their personal lives especially on a line yes well yeah well number one especially in a line um but also number two because you're just like trying so hard to like be there for that person but you just performed oh yeah and your brain is not working yeah i i see there's hundreds of pictures out of me with strangers looking exhausted i can't i i always think i'm pulling it off but when i i look at if i see something

a picture of me someone tweets i'm like oh my god i'm like exhausted yeah yeah i it's it's important you're right yeah community is important and people feeling like, you know, represented and strong and that, you know, people are, because a lot of people are isolated. You know, they come out from wherever they are, whatever their family situation is, whatever little town they live in. And just to, you know, to hear their truth spoken or something they relate to, it's a big deal. Especially queer folks who I think have had to spend the last year hearing we we've had to hear about our community from outsiders in a way that has really sucked

over the last year either people that are on the far left being like don't worry about it i swear this won't be that bad for you like me i can sit out voting in this election because my rights aren't really on the line but your rights aren't on the line either you know like we had to hear that and then we also had to hear um people on the far right basically acting as if we only exist in large cities and are some like phenomenon of los angeles and west hollywood specifically and right what i've learned traveling the country for the last 15 years is that we are in literally every state and in every city and in rural areas. And people are just trying to get by and not have their apartments taken away because their girlfriend moves in with them or whatever. They're just trying to literally pee in the bathroom that is at the truck stop or wherever the fuck they are

right and um it's scary it's just such a huge step backward in terms of the way my community's spoken about yeah last year either people talking about it like you already got marriage yeah what else do you need yeah isn't that enough aren't you guys good now and and it's like well uh black trans women are being like murdered on the street so we would also like for that to not happen if you wouldn't mind including that with marriage stop killing yeah if you could just like stop killing us yeah that would be cool it's horrible um yeah so what are you doing you know uh in do you do you deal with this stuff on the podcast oh yeah well that this is part of the reason i started this new podcast that's called query yeah um actually i mean i'll blow i'll blow like a little smoke at you okay

you know i think what this show did was allow people into in-group conversations between comics you've heard that a million times it's so cool for people to just be able to like hear two comics talk to each other without explaining right the words and like you go up and you look up yeah do a little homework you know exactly like you figure out where this club is or what this booker is or whatever it is that's like what caught fire about this was the idea that on a podcast there is no explanation. And I feel like that hasn't really existed for the queer community. are like so when did you come out and then how did your parents take it and going from when did you come out to how does your parents how did your parents take it it immediately erases the queer person in that story like okay when did you come out how was that for you uh-huh how had you felt prior to that how were you treated as a kid yeah what do you identify as like i think those

conversations we haven't even had the chance to be asked and it's because a lot of times i mean just by the numbers straight people are doing the interviews and so they're coming at it like i identify with your parent i identify i'm a straight person i identify with your straight parent right as opposed to i'm a queer person um you know just tell me about what your life is like on a daily basis sure yeah

I guess I see that yeah it's difficult I was having a conversation about this about empathy that sometimes empathy is difficult for people

who have no whose experience is completely different yes than the other person yes and I think empathy is also different

from like in group conversation oh absolutely because I think that a lot of people have a lot of empathy And I think empathy is also different from like in-group conversation. Oh, absolutely. Because I think that a lot of people have a lot of empathy. But I think that's right. I think there's a lot of straight people that talk to queer people that are not, they're not meaning to detach or erase. Yeah, of course.

Their curiosity is limited to what their parameters of experience are. 100%. Right. Yeah, 100%. And I would say also, you know, like something that I heard again and again on this last tour, a lot of people that come to see Ria or I will say, this is the first time I've ever seen a stand-up show. Right. Because I specifically haven't gone because I look a little unusual and I'm afraid of that thing where a comic will pick on me.

unusual and i'm afraid of that thing where a comic will pick on me right um and you know you and i know first of all that like not all comics stand up on stage and like point out the weirdos in the audience but just the idea that like you're carrying that around with you right that you would remove your access to art and here in the on the comedy side of things we assume like oh these are the great names and they're universally accepted as speaking to all people yeah no fuck they're not there are people who don't go to those shows because they're scared to be in that audience yeah and like we don't we don't shift our lens right it is i will say are you funny right now pretty funny are you I'm like having a hard time being funny. I'm pretty funny, but like I'm also, I'm not being that specific. Huh. Like I'm reacting to things and then I'm kind of going away from them, you know, in my process and then coming back.

I'm not saying like, what about this problem? Do you know what I mean? I'm trying to sort of subvert it into a bigger conversation or something that doesn't, isn't as like, you know, like, if I'm going to say we're fucked, then I got to say what I do when I feel that way and where it takes me. And you know what I mean? Like, I try to make it relatable as opposed to pontificate or be righteous about things. Well, maybe that's the part that I'm having a hard time with, honestly. I don't think there's anything wrong with it. The righteousness part.

It's just it's tricky to make it funny. It is tricky to make it funny. I feel pretty betrayed. By? Like, you know, whatever it was, 80% of white voters or something. I feel pretty betrayed by like my own skin, by like whiteness right now and how fucking stupid whiteness is. How far we will apparently go to save it. Was it really at risk to begin with?

Well, Mark, some other people wanted to own like 3% of the 100% that white people have owned in this country. And so, as you know, that was a terrible idea. And white people had to fight for it. It was too much. Way too much. Yeah, I don't know. Racism is scary shit. And, you know, it's hard to deliberate, you know, where to come from. But ultimately, if you start with, you know, breakfast.

Right. And you kind of move out from there. You know, just your own life. You know, like these struggles. Like it's very easy, I think, sometimes to isolate things you want to talk about. But that's different than, you know, how do I talk about this? And I'm not sure that that part, you know, asking that question publicly is not a bad place to start. You know, like I'm struggling with how I talk about this because I feel this way.

And there's a humility to that. this way and there's a humility to that and then like the humor that comes out of that is better than thinking you have it figured out or beating yourself up or saying um you know we're all bad i don't know you know i i got away from that you know because i couldn't couldn't handle the stridency of it yeah i think you're totally right i also have the benefit of i mean just me being on stage is inherently political so like if i talk about my personal life it's already kind of creating space and rocking the boat but it's always i think it's always better to come from there don't you well yeah i mean and i guess i guess what i'm saying is my view on it has always been that i share a lot about my personal life i mean there's

like tons that i don't share right there are absolutely many things that are reserved yeah for just me or for just me and my wife or my you know my family yeah um but i've always shared a lot of my personal life because i don't actually see that yeah out there in the comedy world that much yeah i mean you talk so much about your personal life yeah it's boring no but i just think um the door that was opened with by like comics that worked that were your peers yeah and that are your peers yeah toward getting more and more personal like i still didn't see a ton of there aren't a ton of women and there aren't a ton of gay women that's right yeah and also like but like i think i i think what I'm hearing you say is that it's challenging now when things are as scary and, you know, seemingly a little hopeless that, you know, to get to that, to get up there and be like, OK, I'm going to be funny for you now.

Also mad. Mad. Mad. That's actually what I'm really struggling with the for you now. Also mad. Mad. Mad. That's actually what I'm really struggling with the most. I mean, it's working. I had a great time on tour because I think people wanted to see that a little bit. Of course. But also, the thing that sucks about it or that's hard about it is when you're a woman and you yell, that's a fucking problem.

But when you're a woman right now and you that's a fucking problem but when you're a woman right now and you're mad the only thing you want to do is yell yeah so it's real fucking catch 22 yeah you know i feel like you can yell you're allowed thank you for the permission i mean i i've been yelling for years i'm not gonna stop yelling but jesus i can't believe i've never been this mad i've never i've like never been this i don't think a lot of people have ever been this mad. I've never been this mad. I don't think a lot of people have ever been this mad and this scared simultaneously. Yeah. Yeah, it's like exhausting.

I've got my own sort of persecution fantasies, but there's very real persecution going on policy-wise and culturally in a very real way for a lot of people that were making some progress. That is interesting because comedy, stand-up specifically, is often a response to persecution, right? Like that's where it comes from. Sure.

From our childhoods, feeling persecuted. And the glimmer of hope that I have is that since there is, since on a daily basis there are so many real examples of persecution that people that fall in those communities will like rise to the top in a way that we didn't before i mean i've i've had a pretty successful career it's not like i'm for where i'm at i'm not like bummed i'm just saying that i think it's great if what this leads it like if black women get talk shows right now that is great that makes me happy right this week if that's uh more voices being heard yeah yeah all right that's a good place to to wrap it up yeah just on black women

getting talk shows and i'm i'm behind that 100%. Thanks for talking. Yeah, Mark. Okay, so that was me and Cameron Esposito chatting here in the garage. Coming up shortly is Macaulay Culkin. I'm sorry. This transition has been a bit difficult for me. And I know there's just a lot of commotion going on outside. There's a machine running. But this is not going to be how it's going to be.

Just bear with me another week or two, another episode or two, you know. I don't even know how much you can hear that noise, but, like, I'm trying not to fester on it. But, excuse me, we'll just keep moving. We'll keep moving on. We'll keep moving through. It's not going to be this way on Thursday. I don't even know how much you can hear it but there's a little bit of chaos here at the house folks that's that's all i'm saying but that was cameron esposito you can get her recent stand-up record back to back uh you can you can get that where you get your cds and records uh also listen to query with cameron esposito and uh yeah it was nice to see her as

i said earlier when i got the opportunity to speak to macaulay caulkin i realized that he doesn't go out and speak much we all know who macaulay caulkin is and he is one of those people that you kind of think to yourself well what's going on with that guy where where's he been what's he what's he doing what how did how did life end up for macaulay caulkin well it ended up all right and he's got a new podcast called bunny ears you can get it wherever you get podcasts and uh i you know i just i i went into it with an open mind and it was nice to see him uh so this is me uh talking to maulay Culkin. So what did you tell me to call you?

Mac. Mac. Yeah, it's one syllable. It's a lot easier. Yeah, yeah. Is that how it goes? Mac? Have you been Mac the whole life?

Mac? Yep, yep. It's kind of like both a nickname and my name, really. Yeah, yeah. So, now, what have you been doing? Where have you been living? What's going on? Do you live in New York?

Do you live in Paris? Where do you live? Yeah, I've been living in Paris and New York. I've been in New York a little bit more. But what goes on in Paris? You just moved there out of nowhere? Well, I was going there for a little while, and it was one of those things where people would i thought nobody recognized me yeah what it was was no we recognize you we just don't care oh yeah that's better is that better where have you people been my whole life kind of thing

yeah no i get all the benefits like you know and like you know a lot less of like you know yeah like you know the negatives yeah um and yeah i have a nice like you know group of friends out there and they always ask me two questions. When are you going to learn French, and when are you going to move out here? And so during one of my trips, I said, when are you going to move out here? And I said, how's next week? And so I just left my baggage there, went home, settled some affairs for a week, and I've been living in Paris for the last four years.

Four years? Yeah. And my French is still terrible. So when, and you still have your place in New York? Yes, I do. Yeah. I bought. I bought in the 90s.

Oh, that's great. Yeah. It's nice to know that you own a little property if the shit goes down. It is my insurance policy. Right? Let's just put it that way. Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

I can always, you know, I have money tied up in real estate. So why Paris, man? I mean, like, what drew you? Well, you know the the food sucks the wine's terrible and the women are ugly uh but otherwise right sure i mean of course it's like i i live well out there honestly i've never shit better in my life like you know out there my bowels enjoy being out there kind of thing oh yeah no you you eat well okay everything spoils in a day or two uh because it's all so fresh and good? Exactly. I notice that. It's like everything feels

local in a way. Yeah. Like you feel like you're eating real vegetables. Well, it's a bakery. Real cheeses. Exactly. A boulangerie, a bakery out there can't call itself a boulangerie, a bakery, unless they bake their own baguettes from scratch every single day. So it's a food thing. You went there for the food. Well, I mean, like I said, it's a part of it. It's a part of it. Did you have a romantic idea of what Paris was? I mean, or is there, like you don't speak French,

so are you spending most of your time with expats? I do find a lot of expats at cafes and things like that. In the same way that if a French person was in L.A. and they hear someone speaking French two tables over, their ears will their you know their ears will just like ping yeah yeah yeah i'm gonna go talk to that guy yeah exactly like invite them over to your table and you know yeah you know offer them a glass of wine or you know some coffee or something like that so i do find that and but did you go i guess what i'm trying to figure out is like did you retire there i mean i i've been yeah i've been you know i've been i'm a

i'm a 30 something retired person pretty much yes like you know exactly like walking around with a baguette tucked under my arm like you know and living the romantic life right but also when i was you know going around europe i you know did one of those things where you go around for months and months and months oh you did that and yeah yeah for like a good like half a year and uh i didn't want to be that guy who came back and said, Paris is great, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Paris is beautiful. And I became that guy.

Yeah. I couldn't help it. I did really enjoy it. It worked in my sensibilities. Sure. They eat light breakfasts. I know, it's a food thing. And so that kind of lifestyle.

And what do you do during the day? What do you read a book? What do you do yeah you know i i write i paint i say i sleep i drink yes i paint yeah yeah i've shown yeah and uh yeah and abstract figurative what do you do uh a little more abstracty kind of stuff but also yeah like you know uh i've been playing a lot with like a some like real kind of of still life or some figurative kind of like charcoals and everything like that. Oh, yeah? After the last shootings out there in Paris, there was a curfew, so you couldn't leave

your house kind of thing. Uh-huh. And so all I did was just play with charcoals until I went insane. Because I normally don't leave my house, but the fact that I couldn't leave my house drove me insane. Drove you to charcoal. Drove me to charcoal. Exactly.

Do you have a studio? Or is your place big enough to- Yeah. I have a space in my apartment kind of thing like yeah yeah i i made sure i had a um i got a two-bedroom because i like kind of being you know i love the gertrude stein of paris you know which is you know redundant yeah um but you know i like hosting a lot of my like you know friends and bands and things like that that are always touring so i like to host i want to try on that but also i i have i have studio space so yeah and you've got your canvases on the easel yep pretty

much yep yep that's that's exactly what it is it looks really really cute and there's also just stains all over the floor and everything like that from like the bottom of my feet it's it's very romantical it really is it sounds like you're doing the whole thing yeah i'm i'm going there i you know i you know i i've been going what are you writing in paris uh i i write all kinds of stuff i write you know like you know i i the book that i'm working on my next book that i'm working on is more of a series of short stories that's a little more clean yeah my first book that i published is very very more like journaling kind of uh very much a 20 year old it's very very juvenile and right kind of way because I wrote it when I was 20. Yeah.

So this one's going to be a little clean, but also I write a lot of just really weird, like, kooky kind of things. Yeah. I wish I could show it to you so you can actually see it.

Yeah, exactly. It's bits and pieces. Like notebook. Like, this might be a poem. It might be a saying. It might be an adage. Exactly. It's very notebook-y,

you know, kind of thing. But, you know, whatever. That was the first book? Well, yeah, it was like that, and it's kind of like I also notebooky you know but you know whatever that was the first book uh well yeah it was like that and that's kind of like i also work on that kind of stuff always it's kind of just how i stylistically will kind of go or at least when i'm kind of in my manic state and can't sleep are you manic do you get that uh yeah i can go there exactly like yeah there's certain times where i'm just awake for like you know two days or whatever really you know yeah and just certain kind of energy gets me over.

But then next thing you know, I sleep for like three days too. But is it like a diagnosed thing? Do you take medicine for it? Are you like- No, no, no. I mean, my lifestyle affords me the opportunity to be that way. Let's put it that way. So you don't have to worry about-

Yeah, I don't- So what if you're up for a week? Right. As long as you don't hurt anybody or yourself exactly but you don't get the downs with it no no it's it's not it's not manic depressive or you just get mania yeah it's kind of just oh yeah can i get this look at i can't sleep kind of thing which is fine like i i'm totally happy with that yeah so let's uh let's let's go back. Yeah, okay, sure. Wait, why? How'd you get here? Let's go back. Let's go back to this morning.

You don't have a place here? Not in LA, no, not anymore. I did live out here for the better part of eight years, though. When you were like a kid? No, no. It was actually in my 20s when I was dating a lady that lived out here. So more and more of my stuff ended up out here, and then I had a key. Which lady?

Just a lady. Unknown lady? Yeah. Not a famous lady? A lady friend. Yeah, you had a lady friend out here. Yes, I had a lady friend out here. And so, yeah.

So for nearly all my 20s, I was actually out here. But it was in West Hollywood, so it was very walkable. Right. So I still don't have a driver's license. I Hollywood, so it was very walkable. Right. So I still don't have a driver's license. I'm a New Yorker through and through. Still. Well, yeah, trains are good. Yeah, but I was able to do, you know, it was pre-Uber, so I actually had every number for every single taxi company.

Cab, cab, cab. Yeah, and I knew which neighborhoods they serviced. Isn't that wild? You had to wait for a cab? Yeah, right? Yeah. Yeah, right, exactly. And it looked like a taxi.

Yeah. And at that time time were you like living the life did you have a lot of friends out here yeah i mean uh la like any other place is what you make it same thing with paris whatever and so yeah if you surround yourself with the right kind of people and yeah did you yeah i did i did well for the most part with like one exception who is that no i'm not going there no no no no no no all right man i know i'm trying not to be too guarded which are you friends with your brother yeah yeah my brothers i'm third of seven but yeah the actor yeah no actually rory uh my brother

rory is the youngest he acts and kieran he's uh yeah right are they out here no no they're in new york i'm the only person who's ever lived outside of New York City. So you're all still in New York? Yeah, we're a New York family kind of thing. I'm the adventurous one. I'm the one who, like, yeah, will live out in Los Angeles or in Paris or whatever. And they, like, how many are there? I'm third of seven.

So my mother didn't have a family. She had a litter. Yeah, right. Is she still around? Yeah, yeah, she is. She's married in Montana. She's a rancher's wife now. Is she still around? Yeah. Yeah, she is. She's married in Montana. She's a rancher's wife now. I just went to go visit her.

She has chickens and horses and the whole works. Really? Yeah, yeah. She was from North Dakota originally. And so she kind of doubled back in her kind of twilight years. Did she grow up with ranchers? Her father was a rancher. And like, yeah, some of her.

Seriously? Because she's like 11 of 13. Like she had like half the size family that she came from really yeah barefoot and pregnant that was kind of

the philosophy when did she start having kids in 75 76 and who's the oldest my oldest is Shane so they went with so there was Shane

and Dakota so they were like very western kind of names like you know like yeah like kind of and then

then they went straight Irish for the rest of the names for a while and Macaulay and Kieran you know yeah you know yeah Christian Patrick Culkin you know yeah yeah and she's in Montana yeah yeah married to a rancher married to a rancher and she never married your father nope no they were never married this is actually a first man having kids yep yep and in one bedroom apartment stop yeah in a one- apartment on like in it was called yorkville back then now it's called spanish harlem and uh yeah they stacked us on top of each other it was a four room apartment for

nine people what the hell were they thinking that's exactly the phrasing i i said i said to her i said mom what the hell were you freaking thinking? And what'd she say? She kind of just, I liked, I like kids. I, you know, I, this is what I wanted. Like I said, there was a certain kind of barefoot pregnant kind of thing that I think she felt that that's what a woman's kind of place was a little bit. But I mean, but seven? I know.

Believe me, she couldn't even afford one. They couldn't even afford one. Believe you me. But you're, yeah. Until they, they turned you out. Yeah, right. Indeed. No, they put us to freaking work fast.

Yeah, I was just the third one that they tried to turn out. This one's cute. Get him in front of the camera. There you go. Push him out onto the spotlight. This one can talk. So by the grace of god go i so but but they they were broke but was what did she didn't work she didn't have a she wasn't in

new york for a reason no uh no my father pretty much plucked her off the side of a road really yeah if you've driven on the road yeah in north dakota if you were in uh if you've driven on road in north dakota chances are my family helped build it, one form or another. And so she was the stop slow chick with the sign. Oh, yeah? And my father was driving cross country. Come on, this is-

And he was like 27, she was 17, and pretty much plucked her off the side of the road. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And she was pretty, too. Yeah. She was a pretty, you know, she was a PYT. Uh-huh.

And yeah, brought her back to New York, and she'd walk around Central Park barefoot. She'd pick the flowers, and everyone's like, don't pick the flowers. Really? So was this hippie time? Yeah, hippie, dippy. Yeah, this is like mid-70s. Yeah. Yeah.

But your old man, what did he do? He was an attempted actor, dancer, pretty much everything that I've done in my life. Yeah. He's like, I failed, I'll make the kid do it, or what? I mean, essentially, like, yeah, there was an element of that kind of thing. And I was actually an afterthought. It was my older brother that he was kind of just

wanted him to be the dancer. Shane, he was the oldest. Shane, what's he do now? He floats. Yeah. Floats around. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. He's floating. How old is he? Shane he was the oldest Shane what's he do now uh he floats yeah floats around you know yeah yeah he kind of just yeah he's floating how old is he uh he's uh 41 so yeah we still my my mother has a a kid in her 40s and a kid still in her 20s kind of thing okay we we span from Gerald Ford to HW

Bush so this generation so So Shane floats. Yeah. So but in general wanted him to be the actor dancer things and it was kind of just well just take Mac along. Let's see what happens kind of thing.

And next thing you know I'm booking like every gig. I get into school from Mac and Ballet like this. Yeah. Like you know so I was a professional

ballet dancer for a couple of years. As a kid? Yeah. I mean what is there to do other than Swan Lake and the Nutcracker? Nutcracker and things like that. Yeah. And also it was one of those things where i don't even know there's no

kids in swan lake is there no i don't think so i don't think so it's pretty much just a nutcracker way around a year our season revolves around the nutcracker for sure and uh but i remember like showing up to my class because it was the audition was just like it was it was a breeze kind of thing and then i show up and i go no wonder it was a breeze i'm the third boy and there's like 40 girls in there which is a great ratio i'll take it yeah how old were you uh when i first got in like about like yeah like seven eight kind of thing like yeah i did like the like 88 89 seasons and things like that so how so okay so that means so that's when that was your first showbiz gig, doing the ballet.

No, actually, I did a lot of off-Broadway, too, before that kind of thing. I did some Gilbert and Sullivan kind of thing. Like you were the little kid. I was the little sailor boy on the HMS Pinafore. That was me, yeah. So I was actually just listening to it last night. I was introducing my girlfriend to Gilbert and Sullivan. Oh, really?

Yeah, yeah. And she'd never heard it before? No, no. I mean, who has? Right. I'm sure most of your listeners are well-versed in Gilbert and Sullivan. Come on. I don't know if I could name a bunch, but I know that they wrote a lot of musicals, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. H. Chris Penafore, The Mikado, You're One of the Guard. I'm well-versed in those classics, at least. You did a lot of musical theater. Did a lot of that, and did also a lot of different off-Broadway stuff and ensemble studio theater like Black Box Theater kind of things.

Yeah. So your old man knew the ropes in a way. He'd been, yeah, he'd been kicked around a little bit. You know,

he did some stuff when he was a kid and again with the dancing and all that kind of stuff but also with the acting. He pretty much never made it be on chorus on a Broadway kind of level.

You know, he was kind of just like, yeah chorus on a broadway kind of level you know he was kind of just like yeah guy number three yeah i think and so he did that for a while and then like maybe booked some off-broadway things and then dried up and then kind of dried up and i think he had an incident and then you know next thing you know he's having a family you know he had an incident uh okay i i i i might be telling this story wrong. So doing King Lear off, off, off Broadway. Right. He's playing Gloucester. Way off Broadway.

He's playing Gloucester, and Gloucester gets his eyes poked out. Yeah. In the second act. And actually, he wore a mask, which actually I grew up with. It's actually really scary, and it was kind of just a mask

with bloody eyes coming off of it. Oh, yeah. So he is so into his part, he closes his eyes. And so he's doing the soliloquy and he's getting closer and closer to the edge of the stage. Yeah.

And he doesn't notice because he's so into the part because he's blind. And then he spills into the first row. Yeah. And hurts himself. This is opening night. Yeah.

And injures himself and can't do the rest of the run of the whole show. And apparently that was like the last acting gig every day because it was quite embarrassing and i remember actually talking to like a producer that i was when i was doing some theater stuff like you know as an adult and he goes that was your father and i go yep it's kind of like it's semi-notorious it's a myth yes he's a myth in the infamous oh yeah no a couple of uh the infamous blind fall cokins have a couple of those

like Broadway, off-Broadway kind of like stories. My brother Shane, he, in Spalding Gray's A Monster in a Box, at the end he talks about doing Our Town, and my brother Shane was in it,

and he talks about the kid who vomited on stage. That's my brother Shane. Kieran did a show where the other characters were smoking a joint uh you know and uh he put real pot in one day uh-huh so like he actually made the whole like the whole theater smell like pot right and like yeah there's lots of those kind of like wait that was your brother

that was your father that was your brother like yep yep no we have a lot of notorious you're you're you're a theatrically a theater a theater family that doesn't have a lot of success stories. You're a theatrically, a theater family that doesn't have a lot of success, but it has some dramatic incidents. Yeah, apparently. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Exactly. Other than you. Yeah, exactly. No, no, actually, your brother's gone on. Kieran and Rory, they... They're both too good.

And they hustle. I mean, as a kid, yeah. Yeah, I mean, yeah. I mean, Kieran worked a good amount, too. Like, you know, Kieran's actually always kind of been working,

and then he took a big long break, and now he's kind of getting back into it now that he's married. Does anyone have kids? Kids got to earn, you know. Has he got kids? No, no. No one's got kids?

Yeah, exactly. Seven, you know. My mother has seven children and none of them have, we have no, you know. I have no nieces or nephews. And I say like, Mom, don't you think that you actually kind of mess us up a little bit? Yeah. We're very hesitant to like pull the trigger maybe that's true yeah so so let me let me understand now do you get along with your father still or you don't no no i haven't spoken to him

in really about a quarter of a century almost oh really so that's the way that goes yeah it's the way it goes it's it's the way it has to be um i understand that i yeah i was never tight with him to begin with and so it's kind of just it's like my concept of a father almost is one of those things that you like get from like uh tv shows and movies yeah you know rather than actually having that affection for a father sure yeah yeah i was never tight with him yeah i got a difficult father, but not in the same way, I don't imagine. But let's go, when you started doing the movies and the TV,

what was the first gigs that you had on film or on camera? I started actually, I was very lucky. I started booking movies right off the bat. I didn't do a lot of commercials or anything like that. Not a lot of TV. You know, guest spot on the Equalizer. Remember that? Yeah.

But for the most part, it was just movie, movie, movie. And then Billy Hopkins, who was a casting director, just, like, he actually directed me in some of that black box theater kind of stuff. Yeah. He also did a lot of John Hughes-like things. And so, yeah. He was a casting director?

Yeah. And then, so then, boom, Uncle casting director yeah and then so then boom Uncle Buck happens and then you know shit rolls downhill yeah or yeah and that's good or bad oh it was fantastic no are you kidding me like no shit's fantastic Uncle Buck was the was the first movie really no no I'd already done like three or four things before then like what uh it was Rocket Gibraltar See You in the Morning I did uh i did a a day on born the fourth of july oh yeah but it was cut out yeah yeah yeah uh and then boom yeah uncle buck and then i like i just remember the final callbacks how old were you man i was about seven or eight

yeah something like that i just remember when i was auditioning with john candy uh uh i ended up going between his legs for some reason I was very very physical and it was kind of just like yeah there you go kid I was just a fearless kind of kid I didn't really have perspective so I kind of just did stuff but you had a sense of comedy

I mean sure that's not something that you learn per se especially at that age. Right. But like, you know. I enjoy time. I like to make adults laugh.

Yeah, right. Well, that's good. You know what I mean? I mean, it serves you well. So when you do these auditions, when you're working with, I mean, because I, you know, I've been on sets where they have kids and, you know, everyone's got to be. Kids and animals, yeah. Yeah.

You got to be delicate. It's a sort of, you got to be careful and they've got to go to school at some point during the day three hours a day yeah so when you're working with someone like john candy what are your memories of that guy uh he was always really sweet he was really good with us yeah because it was me and another uh girl gabby hoppin uh and he was now a big actress. Yeah, yeah, exactly. On Transparent. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, she's doing good. Yeah, she's great.

Yeah, she's stuck to it. Yeah, no, it's because you don't want to deal with freaking kids. Like they are annoying. And like, honestly, he had a very gentle touch with us and all that. I think some of that was also developing a rapport with us because it needed to translate to screen. But at the same time like that now compared to like other people that i'd worked with when i was a child look at he was he had a deft touch yeah yeah yes and he's a good guy and he was a good dude like he

sincerely look at like i i you know i i liked him and he was always just like yeah he i i he figured out i think something really early on with me back then was ask me a question, and I'll start rattling off. And so just let the kid prattle on. Right. That'll keep the kid entertained if you kind of just ask him questions. Right. Yeah.

It wasn't like he was pulling out a quarter behind my ear kind of thing. He didn't need to entertain you. Yeah, kind of like, what do you think of those Teamsters? Well, didn't he? You just go. So you're kind of a low maintenance kid uh yeah yeah i'm talking well here's the thing is that they always kind of want like the kid like especially like the stuff they were asking me to do very very physical very very loud very big and boisterous yeah uh so they wanted me like you know practically hopped up on sugar practically

yeah and then at the same time when you don't want that it's hard for the kid to wind down a little bit right yeah yeah so you're always wound up yeah yeah i mean exactly yeah but i mean this is not like a julie gar you know judy garland kind of thing they're not hopping me up with reds and blues and all that kind of stuff it wasn't like that just candy yeah exactly it was it was just like here's a coca-cola kid now action yeah now who was on set with you usually your mom i was usually my father actually yeah I was on the road with him a lot. So he took charge? Yes.

No, he definitely took the reins and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. It's not like I made career decisions. Sure. It's not like I read the script and said, oh, yeah, I want to do this kind of thing. Right. It was kind of just like, oh, you're going to read this script. Right.

Or you're going to do this script. I didn't read Home Alone before I did it. I would do the scenes individually. I knew what the gist was. Yeah. But he decided. I knew what the arc was. He decided.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm a schmucky kid. You know what I mean? I don't know. You did all right. Yeah. No, I mean, I guess.

Well, thank you. Yeah. But it was also learn your lines, hit your marks, find your light. Who said that? That was just kind of the way it was. Yeah. You know what I mean? Sure, yeah.

But wait, how many movies did you do with John Hughes? Three? Three. Actually, after he died, I realized I'd actually done as many John Hughes movies as Molly Ringwald, technically. Uh-huh. Because people associate Molly Ringwald with John Hughes, at least early John Hughes. And it's actually John-

Pretty in Pink, The Breakfast Club, and what was the other one that uh sweet 16 oh okay yeah or 16 candles 16 candles yeah uh but actually it was john candy he was the one he did nine movies with him yeah but yeah i did i did three yeah and what was your impression of him he was fantastic he was soft and sweet he was again good with me yeah uh um but also had had just a soft and sweetness to him. Yeah. And actually cared. Actually gave a crap. Would actually ask me how I was doing.

And when I got older, he would actually ask me. He would talk to me like an adult. And other people didn't do that to me. So I hold him in very, very high regard. And he seemed like he was a very... Well, he definitely understood the the the mind of you know kids through adolescence you know the the arc of that and then he started moving backwards you know then he started doing a lot of kids movies yeah because i mean he wrote

little beethoven movies people don't realize that he wrote like baby's day out oh really oh yeah i don't he wrote like he actually wrote uh or at least he pitched and it was his pitch was made in manhattan and drill bit taylor remember those drill bit taylor that was the adam sandler project Oh yeah, he wrote, he actually wrote, or at least he pitched, and it was his pitch, was Made in Manhattan and Drill Bit Taylor. Remember those? Drill Bit Taylor, that was the Adam Sandler project? No, that's Owen Wilson. Owen Wilson, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. They hire a bodyguard.

Yeah, right, right, yeah, yeah. They made that movie. No, exactly. No, that's what I mean. People don't realize that those are actually technically John Hughes movies. Right. Those are old pitches of his.

Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So which ones, but he only directed you in two? No, directed me in Uncle Buck and that was virtually it. That was pretty much it. And he wrote Home Alone?

Oh, yeah. He wrote both the Home Alone movies. Exactly. But he was around? Yeah, no, yeah, of course. He would pop in, but also it was that writer kind of thing.

And he did Hand the Reins over to Chris Columbus. And the thing is, he wrote Home Alone specifically for me. Yeah. After Uncle writer kind of thing. And he did Hand the Reins over to Chris Columbus. And the thing is, he wrote Home Alone specifically for me. Yeah. After Uncle Buck kind of thing. It was that thing of the kid looking through, like, the little mail slot, you know, protecting his home. Yeah.

And he was like, and so he pretty much, he literally spent a weekend and wrote Home Alone for me. And he gave it to Chris Columbus. So Chris Columbus wasn't going to, like, just give me the part just on his say-so. Yeah. And so, like, yeah. You had to work for to work for it yeah I had to hustle but it was also the last audition I did in a long long time too how is Daniel Stern always sweet again what you have to remember is that I'm not really in a lot of scenes with those guys I guess that's true yeah no that's the thing it's it's almost uh my buddy brought it up uh the other day he goes it's kind of it's closer to cast away in a certain extent.

Where it's like, no, I do a lot of scenes by myself, talking to myself and all that. I'm really just in like, yeah, you can probably count on just definitely on one hand, but probably on like two or three fingers how many scenes I was in with him. Because they just shot that other side later. Exactly.

This is going on over here. That's going on over there. And then finally it all happens at you know, at the end. Even the crawling, you know, like across the rope or things like that, or like, you know, the tarantula-y kind of like things like that's all, that's, that's all like not in the same room. Also, cause I can only work X amount of hours a day too. So they had to figure out how to be economical about it.

Yep. Yeah. So you didn't get to really hang out with like Catherine O'Hara or Pesci or anything? Not really. Cause also I'm not working with them. Like, you know what I mean? Pesci or anything not really because also I'm not working with them like you know I mean even though we're in the same movie I'm not working with them it's so sad to know how the fucking sausage is made sometimes right right exactly I mean that's why theater is sort of beautiful yeah because it's intertwined no matter what yeah and you know it's in it's in real time and it's not you know a bunch of takes it's not so

weirdly uh kind of um workman-like. You know what I mean? It's like, all right, we got that coverage. Now we're going to go in closer. Exactly. It's not as savage. Well, it's the, they say, what is it? TV is the writer's forum.

Yeah. Because I was actually surprised when I've done some TV where it's like after every take, all the writers get together with you and eventually direct you. Try it like this. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And then movie, film is a director's forum yeah essentially doesn't matter like even what you do like he's going to use whatever take he wants that's right and theater

is the actor's forum it doesn't matter what's written on the page it doesn't matter what the director tells you to do you can get up there and do whatever you want you can fuck up the show on your own exactly close your eyes and fall off the front of the stage during leer exactly exactly it's up to you and get all Gloucester on it okay okay but yeah yeah no it's uh yeah so uh I've always enjoyed theater theater is actually my favorite form when you when you think back when you look back on if you want smoking smoking oh really yeah you can pull that shit out of there look at you you you are you are a delight. But what do you remember about that time? Because it was pretty crazy, right?

Yeah. I mean, like, now, like, because I don't know. Like, I imagine whatever, you know, we can move through, whatever, you know, went down between you and your old man. But I imagine that, you know, he was probably living it up, and you were living it up as much as a nine-year-old could. But, I mean, what did it look like for you out here? Well, the thing is, actually, money didn't really start rolling in until like you know after that kind of thing it's not like i got paid like you know a truckload uh you know for home alone

but not until the second one yeah pretty much yeah that's when like yeah like that's you know because you had some backhand on that yeah exactly yeah we were still living in that one bedroom apartment come on people like for after after home alone came out yeah yeah it took us a minute like you know to get that kind of stuff uh-huh you know going and out there um and here's the way i'll put it is that i i i didn't know any other life so this is like this is the way it works yeah this is the hero's journey essentially you know yeah it's you know oh you start working you start working little black box theaters, and then you start booking small movies,

then you do big movies, and then you're a big fat superstar, and that's the way it works. At 10. Well, you don't know, but you have no perspective. No, I know, but you're right. But that is sort of the way it works at any age. But I mean, oddly.

Oddly, you were able to get some theater chops in. Yeah, exactly. Get some ballet chops in and some black box theater in there. Yeah, they really paid your dues. Oh, yeah. No, believe you me. Exactly.

I mean, you know, because, yeah, because I was on the circuit. Thankfully, I got off the circuit for a while. But, like, yeah, doing those nine auditions a day in the dead of summer kind of thing. Like, you know, like. Oh, you mean after Home Alone? No, before. Before. Like, yeah, no, I mean, I did like this.

I mean, I, like, you know, hustled. You know, I hustled for my dinner. Let's put it that way. But was your father, like, running all you guys? Just me and Kieran were booking a lot. Yeah, and Rory, I hustled for my dinner. Let's put it that way. But was your father running all you guys? Just me and Kieran were booking a lot. Yeah, and Rory, too, but he was young. Yeah, yeah, he was young, but also he played young me in a zillion movies

because he actually looks a lot like me. So, yeah, pretty much every picture of young me or any kind of thing, like, yeah, no, it's Rory. He built a career out of being young you. Yep, exactly. But now that kid is always working. It's hilarious. I'll reach out to him and kind of like, yeah, I'm in Hungary right now.

He's doing just a zillion indies. Oh, yeah? How old is he now? He is, what, 28, 28, 29. Wow. Yeah, no, and like I said, he hustles. He's always in perpetual motion. He's actually never stopped ever since he had his teens.

He's always doing something. He's actually never stopped Ever since he hit his teens He's always doing something Spoiler alert He was the killer in Scream 4 That kind of thing He'll do whatever He'll do it He hustles for his dinner He likes to work He enjoys the business

Him and my old brother That was a little bit older than him They would be on the set of Home Alone too and you know chris the one who's a little older would go there's the burglars and roy go oh there's joe pesci and daniel stern yeah right you know even though he was younger he actually like he he got it like what does chris do he is uh floating around he's he writes a lot he was writing for a magazine like you know he majored in like journalism and all stuff and he just went back to school for a film and also so he's still in school any of the caulking kids just doing a regular job a nine-to-five oh yeah I know my sister is a chef yeah she

was a French culinary Institute you know making that happen kind of thing and at a restaurant now yeah yeah yeah she's yeah. She's doing her thing. She's doing her thing. And you guys get together all together every? Every once in a while. We try to make that happen. I've been away for a lot of these holidays recently. This holiday, I'm spending it with my girlfriend

and things like that. Yeah, we make it happen. We have game nights and things like that. So your old man's running three. Pretty much. Just swapping you to auditions. Running me into the ground. we make it happen we have game nights and things like that so your old man's running three pretty much yeah just swapping you to yeah running me into the ground you know yeah yeah and and when in now when did you sort of um like what was the socialization because you know when you talk when you hear like drew barrymore talk or any other you know child actors you actors who went on to exist in the business,

there seemed to be a strange world for them, like if they weren't protected properly. Did you find that? Well, yeah. I mean, it's the balance between being protected properly and being overly protected, because otherwise you have no social skills. And so after I did Richie Rich, you know 93 or 94 or something like that

uh i and then you know my father and my mother finally you know called it quits which was one of the best things that ever happened um i was able to actually like walk away from the business i even wanted to take a break for a while and eventually like i just was like i'm done i'm done guys like you know i i uh i hope you all made your money because there's no more coming from me and that's you know really so now but like i guess i quit for like eight years i mean yeah more specifically like when when you're out here like how do you how do you end up having a relationship with michael jackson oh that was uh he actually well we'd actually met when i was actually doing the nutcracker on on and uh on uh lincoln center really oh yeah uh he came backstage before the show and of course like everyone's you know like he loved the nutcracker yeah i mean he'll

dance like man like he was he was a he was a dance man yeah yeah yeah and so uh um doug that actually funny enough he actually came backstage with donald trump uh uh because they were friendly back then uh is that true pre-precedential i mean i'm talking like 1988 uh how old are you you're like eight like eight yeah and uh we met and that's the thing is that like i would do uncle buck or whatever and then i'd race back to new york to do my ballet stuff once your gig yeah exactly yeah you know and so uh um but i remember i remember he looked at me and he's like i know you you from somewhere. I was like, yeah. I said, I also do movies also, that kind of thing.

And he was like, and then I think he finally found me. He was like, oh, Uncle Buck. And I'm like, yeah, that's me. He goes, yeah, you're funny. I'm like, oh, thanks. And that was about it. And what did Trump say, anything? Gosh, it wasn't memorable.

And then after Home Alone came out, he reached out to me me and like my family and kind of just, listen, there's no like child actor self-help group or anything like that. You know what I mean? You kind of, sometimes you reach out to certain kids if you want to make sure they're all right.

Yeah. Kind of thing. Like, believe you me, I've, you know, I've extended the same kind of before. Like nothing like, you know, like too crazy. But he's like, yeah, like, you know, do you want to you want to hang out i know things are weird yeah so come over to my house like that thing and so yeah so with my whole family and actually no like we were friends we were like seriously he was like my best friend growing up for like a good fat stretch of my life

yeah yeah like it's it was it was legitimate friendship yeah Yeah. Well, I mean, do you think, was he emotionally young? Yeah, he was. Well, it was also, he enjoyed, he enjoyed, like, kind of just, you know, at least, you know, I can speak for myself, at least. He enjoyed my youthfulness. Yeah. Kind of thing. Right. Yeah.

And, of course, he was a kid himself. He kind of, like, he liked being a kid, like like with me, like, you know, like, and my brother and like, you know, but it was. But yet he was like, what, 20 years older? Yeah. That seems about right. Yeah. Something like that.

But like, he never really like, you know, I mean, you know, you can get all kind of like, you know, do all the psychology kind of thing. It's like, oh, he never had his childhood. Right, right, right. All I can speak to really is, you know, like the way he was and, you know, despite whatever the reasoning was kind of thing. But no, he liked being around kids. And it wasn't odd to you.

No, it was, honestly, it never struck me as odd. I never felt uncomfortable or anything like that. I never thought it was weird because it was actually like he was, that was the way that he was. You know, it was just, it was down to his bone marrow kind of thing. You know, so it wasn't.

So you never thought, so it didn't come off as creepy because you bought it because it was authentic. Yeah, I mean, I didn't buy it. It just was. You know what I mean? Yeah, he wasn't selling it. You know what I mean? Look at that. You know?

Yeah, it was just that. I know you do want, there's some part of you that wants to, or me, you know, when you think about what you've heard in that situation, just in general, to make it, you know. Untoward. Yeah. Yeah. But that was not your experience. That was not my experience at all kind of thing. Yeah. And it was, it was, you know, it was the fact that, like, my mind didn't go there.

That was one of the reasons why he liked hanging around a guy like me. That kind of thing. It was just like, yeah. It never felt weird. Right. It was just the way that it was. Yeah. And it was-

I looked at him for who he was. Because listen, at that point, I was pretty famous, I guess. And I i met plenty of famous people like his fame did not like make a thing but yeah but so like so i was not enamored by him you know i was i get it yeah it was kind of just like you know we're we're right but you're friends but you're up there at the theme park or the the house yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and there was a lot of other kids around. Sometimes, kind of thing. But it was usually a family of staff kind of thing.

Sure. Like, yeah, kind of just like, oh, they'll have a dad. Did he strike you as lonely and sad? And, like, did you ever get a read on it? As I got older, there was a little bit of that. Definitely, you know. Yeah. Like, you know. Yeah.

But when I was younger, like, yeah, it was kind of just, you're nine, ten years old. You don't really read things in that kind of way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not unless it's dramatic exactly you know what i mean yeah he wasn't sulking like you know yeah yeah i think it was like if anything you know if he was that way uh um when i hang out with him like it was a respite yeah from that kind of loneliness were you in touch with him up until the end uh yeah i hadn't spoken to him in a while because he was like bouncing all over the place. He was, I think, in Dubai for a while. And then he was doing his... He just didn't want to go back home.

He never went back to Santa Barbara again, kind of thing. Because it just... I don't know. Everything in his life felt tainted, except for... Why? Because that was what happened

with that last trial. Everything was tainted. Yeah. You know, everything was tainted. Right. So that's why kind of just trying to start over a little bit. Like, you know,

and the only thing that really like was important to him was his immediate family, his children and stuff. Are you friends with them? Yeah, yeah. I'm the,

I'm the godfather, but I'm close with Paris. Yeah. Yeah. I'm kind of, I'm going to warn you now, I'm very protective of her. So. Yeah'm kind of, I'm going to warn you now, I'm very protective of her. So.

Yeah. Just like, I'm a very open book when it comes to things, but like with her, it's like, no, she is,

she is beloved by me and I'm like, yeah, I'm, you know, you know. I'm not looking for anything. I know,

I know you're not and I'm just like, I know you're not and I, I'm just letting you know, like, if you, if we want to start going down that road,

like it's going to be a dead end but I mean that in the fact that I love her so much oh that's great and she's doing alright she's tall and beautiful and smart it's great so how old were you when you did SNL you hosted SNL right

yeah I was I think I just turned 11 I was promoting my girl oh really 11 years old who was on the cast what kind of debauchery was going. I was promoting My Girl. Oh, really? 11 years old? Yep. Who was on the cast? What kind of debauchery was going on? I was just about to say,

this was the almost ideal cast because Carvey was Carvey's last season. Yeah. Hartman was still there. Yeah. Nealon was still there. Yeah. Victoria Jackson, that whole group.

But Farley and Sandler and Rock and Myers were all there. Yeah, so... So it was that transitional year. Yeah, and how did they treat you? They were all good with me. I mean, like, listen, I mean, again, like it was one of those things where like, you know,

I show up and like, you know, hit your mark, find your lights kind of thing. So when it came to. And your dad's there. Yeah, honestly, like, yeah, like they're pitching more to my dad really at that point. Right. It's also kind of just like, yeah.

What can the kid do? Yeah, a little, you know, not so bad, but it's also kind of like, you know, Simon or Sprockets. Right. It's also kind of just like, yeah. What can the kid do? Yeah, a little, you know, not so bad, but it's also kind of like, you know, Simon or Sprockets. Right. Like Mike Myers, I was like,

I can only do one, you know, so it was that kind of stuff a little bit. And then like, you know, because you do those whatever like Monday meetings

or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then like on Tuesday they've already written something out and then Wednesday,

you know, like I said, I just showed up and but yeah, my father, my father was such a crazy person about like you know and then i had to do the whole episode without cue cards he wanted you to do without you yeah so also that meant every uh every uh other person in the cast couldn't have

cue cards either in any scene that i was in no cue cards that was your father's idea yeah because because he didn't like it when people glanced off and looked at the cue cards kind of thing so were you you you pretty good with the memory or i mean yeah i i didn't like it when people glanced off and looked at the cue cards kind of thing. So were you pretty good with the memory? I mean, yeah. I didn't miss my lines, man. I totally did it. Was that out of terror? No, no.

Actually, I was just good, man. It's one of those things where if I lost my place, I would just picture the page that I was reading off of and just read it. Oh, you could do that? I could do that back then. You got that brain? Now it's, you know, I'm right in the corner of 40. It's a little fuzzy nowadays.

And who was the musical guest? It was David Bowie. Yeah. The Tin Machine David Bowie, but David Bowie. Oh, fucking Tin Machine. Hunt Sales on drums? Yep, yep.

Tony Sales on bass? Yep. I can't remember the guitar player's name, but Hunt Sales is a monster on those fucking drums. No, it was super cool. And also, I love how it ages me, too. Uh-huh.

It actually makes me sound even older than I was. Well, Tim Machine's like... But also just David Bowie, just in general. Makes it sound like I did the show in like 1982. I don't know. I miss him, man. I don't know how long... It's one of those things where...

I don't know really the last time I checked in with a new Bowie album before he died like i don't know heathen or some of the other ones but but it was always nice knowing he was around yeah right exactly he was a totem yeah he was and it's just like that last right that dark star record is like is that what it's called dark star black star i don't know i have not great dude yeah yeah but did you get to talk to him yeah he was very sweet to me i mean of, of course, I'm doing a zillion things. Right. And I'm 11 years old. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I have to memorize an entire show. Sure. But I just remember him being very sweet and jokey with me. Oh, yeah? And I think, again, like teasing the kid. And honestly, I'm 11 years old. I don't know what Ziggy Stardust is from a hole in the wall. Sure, sure.

But I actually think that he was a pretty proper dude. Yeah underneath it all yeah exactly it was like more like we met in private kind of thing sure and i'm doing the the goodbyes at the end of the show like he puts his hat on me and then i'm pushing it forward so it's falling over my eyes yeah yeah so i'm trying to do my like goodbyes and he keeps on doing that you know oh that's great man but he was yeah he was super sweet it was a good good memory yeah, totally. I had a good time. Like, I mean, honestly, it was all, I got a lot of a blur. I have a friend who works there now.

He does a lot of editing at Edmund. And he said he asked around, like, with, like, the old timers, have you ever heard of somebody doing the show without cue cards? They're like, no, that's insane. That's just completely insane. Because they keep changing it right up to the wire, right?

Exactly. No, and not only that, you also have to, like, you also have to, I had to memorize scenes that weren't in the show because you do the dress and all that kind of stuff like and then they cut things so why this was your dad's idea yeah and did he like professionals know their lines like that was the idea is that kind of idea exactly okay that's that was so you know so the entire show is is acting on the behest of your father to honor this idea.

It's not a bad idea, but were you scared or were you just... Honestly, I was always a really fearless kid. I think that was... Scared of him, though? Like, was he like... Well, I mean, yeah, yeah. Do good or I'll hit you. Like, yeah, sure.

Like, you know what I mean? I'm sorry, buddy. I'm sorry. You know, I'm not. I'm not. Because by the grace of God, here I am. I wouldn't be the man I am today if it i'm sorry uh you know i'm not i'm not okay because by the grace of god here i am i wouldn't be the man i am today if it wasn't for you know you got to look at that way after a certain point but yeah no he won't yeah he wanted me to do it without freaking cue cards and and

and you're infamous for for a good reason exactly not for falling down or fucking it up exactly you did it without cue cards exactly that's me that, kids. So you said after Richie Rich, you shut down the spigot? Yep. And your parents at that point were in the middle of divorce or they're divorced? No, they're separating, that kind of thing. It's more of a child custody thing because they were never married, like even common law. Right.

And then I spent all that time pretty much going to high school. Like that's exactly what I wanted to do. Like a normal person. Yeah. Like I went there for almost purely social reasons really sure yeah i wanted to yeah i wanted to be have other friends than michael jackson yeah i had other friends too you you cheapen my experience sir we're starting to branch out yeah but yeah no i wanted to uh yeah i wanted to like drink 40s and like you know get laid and smoke pot like that's what i wanted to do and that's what i did

i i lived i have to richie rich pretty much so but after their separation and after the fight and i imagine that's where it soured with you and your old man uh no it was it was sour from early on even before the fame stuff really yeah so you you you disliked him all through it yeah and he just liked me too like we didn't like each other really yeah but then all of a sudden imagine this now this man uh who you dislike kind of thing and he dislikes you uh now i become the sole like uh focus of him when i start earning so now all of a sudden i'm like, you know, going around the country, like locked in a room with a guy who doesn't like me kind of thing.

But at the same time, look at it's kind of even like relatively jealous, you know? Well, sure. Oh, he was jealous. I think so.

I, I, everything that he tried to do in his life, like I excelled at like before, before I was 10 years old. Right. But he was behind that in some way. Right.

I mean, he gave you those, he pushed you into those opportunities. Uh, sure. You know, yeah, Right. But he was behind that in some way, right? I mean, he gave you those, he pushed you into those opportunities. Sure. You know, yeah, sure. But I don't understand. Also, he did the negotiation kind of stuff, but it was also kind of like,

I was just good at, I was a better dancer than he ever was. You were talented. I was a better actor than he was. I was a better, like I was just better and more successful at those things. But how did that dislike manifest itself

when you're eight years old? I mean, how do you feel that, you know, going through all that? He was a bad man. Like, honestly, he was a bad man like honestly he was a bad man he was abusive and look at like physically and mentally yeah like you know again i mean yeah i you know i can show you all my scars if you want to but like yeah no he was a bad dude kind of thing um just to you uh no no across the board you know uh but you know i started catching the brunt of it after a while because you know you were there with him all the time.

Yeah, exactly. God bless the rest of my family. They would always get these respites whenever I was off doing a gig. You know, they get three months off from him, you know, and it would be me locked in. But better me than somebody else. That's what I always say.

And it would just be like, you know, well, obviously there's no real provoking, but I mean, just out of nowhere kind of shit, or there was a reason for it. I know you feel that was jealousy, but what would- Well, I don't necessarily feel that way. This is more of a retrospective kind of- No, no, I mean, it makes sense. Trying to figure it out kind of shit or there was a reason for it i know you feel that was jealousy but what would i don't necessarily feel that way this is more of a retrospective kind of like i mean trying to figure it out kind of thing right well what have you figured out that that part of it yeah i think it was some of that kind of thing and also honestly he was just a bad dude like that's the thing he

was a bad abusive man like regardless to your mother too oh yeah oh yeah was he a boozy guy uh he could be yeah oh yeah you know yeah like yeah he yeah. Was he a boozy guy? He could be, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He liked his St. Pauly girls. Oh, really? Yeah. Old-style upscale beer. Yeah, exactly. One of Fancy Pants.

He was a piece of work, yeah. Yeah. So after Richie Rich and after their separation, you could at least legally and at least legally and as an adult, not have to deal with him anymore. Yeah, yeah. And that was what you did. Exactly. And I was, you know, I knew I had an inheritance coming. You know, it was...

Your money. My money. Exactly. Some kid worked really, really hard and I'm inheriting all of his money kind of thing. But that was interesting because they kind of bent the law or changed... You set a precedent, right? Something happened. of thing but that was interesting because they they kind of bent the law or changed that you set a precedent right there that something happened i kind of i i i didn't necessarily get emancipated but i um i pretty much took their names off my money as guardianship because the

judge ruled that way yeah because yeah this is the jackie coogan laws where x amount has to be put in a trust until you're 18 right kind of stuff but they were doing that anyways yeah that yeah that's that's the law kind of thing. But their names were on it. And so I was able to remove their names from it and get like a family friend on top of it. Just, and... Because they were going at each other. Yeah.

With your money. Yeah, I mean, no, not really. You know, they had their own money because they were my managers. So they got, you know, they split 15%. So they were battling, you know, like with their seven and a half percents, you know. They drained their coffers, you know, split 15% so they were battling you know like with their 7.5% you know they drained their coffers

you know doing that stupid shit but yeah it was just when it came to that other like kind of just you know a certain amount

that was liquid that technically had his name on it yeah yeah just taking his name off of it and I also took my mom's name off of it

just so like it's a clean break good so you know so you know if I was gonna be stupid I going to try to be smart about being stupid. That's all. And you get along with your mom. Yeah, I do.

That relationship was always okay? Yeah, it was always good. And she knew your dad was a monster. Yeah, I mean, but at the same time, you know. I've had this discussion with her where it's kind of like, oh, if you knew he was such a bad guy, like, you know, why'd you stick around the whole time kind of thing,

like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, like, you know, you go through that portion of your life where, like, you know, you sort of kind of just like, I started assessing some blame onto her a little bit.

Right, well, sure, yeah, because, you know, how do you, it's hard to understand codependency. Yeah, it's, you know, it's easy for her to be a good guy in a situation like that, you know, compared to,

you know, just a bad dude kind of thing. So at the same time, no, I have nothing but love for my mother. And your old man has not reached out to you? No, not really. I mean, he kind of has and all that stuff. I'm not really receptive to it. Yeah, no, I get that. Yeah, it's not like I've shut that door completely or anything like that. Do you have a

resolve in your heart, though? I mean, I mean. Yes. No, honestly, I have forgiveness in my heart. You do? Yeah. No. Yeah. I've, you know, I've made amends with that whole kind of thing. Oh, yeah? That's good. Yeah. You know, at the same time, I don't think he's there. So that's why I kind of don't want to, like,

really kind of go there with him a little bit. You'd worm back india no no no no he's a feeble old man now like you know what i'm saying like he's not this big strong guy you know what i mean like yeah no he's a he's a he's a feeble old man now you know so like yeah so it wouldn't be about that like no it'd just be i don't think he's willing to say the things he should say kind of thing. Right. Appropriately. Exactly.

He didn't have it in him to do it. Exactly. To self-involve. And honestly, I don't, like, I mean, not, you know,

and this is actually a judgment, I guess. I don't think he deserves it. Sure. You know, that kind of thing. Yeah. You know,

if you've made your peace, you don't have to, if he's not willing to do his correctly or at all, fuck it. You know what I mean? You don't owe him his peace. And you know you know you if you've made your peace you don't have to if he's not willing to do his correctly or at all exactly you know what i mean and you don't owe him his peace and you know exactly and like you know like i said and there's a judgment because it's like maybe he is and i'm not giving him that opportunity like you know what i mean like yeah so you know you know but at the same time like oh you know i i live a very cool fun fruitful life and like you know and and that's kind of despite him yeah sure you know yeah and you know i've come out the other end of that you know that that that rinse cycle like you know like

being this person and you know it's and it was despite him sure you know i've done like three movies in the last like like 12 15 years like no i mean if i really wanted to pursue like if i really wanted to show him i would be pursuing a career in Hollywood kind of thing. And kind of go, look, I can do this without you kind of thing. But it's like, no, no, I'm doing it despite him. Oh, despite. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like I'm living my life.

Yeah, I had it wrong. Despite, despite. I'm full of spite, not you. I was projecting. I'm sorry. There you go. I was projecting. I'm sorry.

There you go. But that eight years where you're getting high and drinking and getting laid and going to high school, did you ever, was there a point where you had some sort of breakdown with this shit? You know, like did you hit a wall like once you got sort of space? No, not really. If anything, no, actually it was liber liberating that's really what it was uh um yeah no i got i just got to do all the things that i wanted to do and i got to start molding myself into the person i wanted to be because i i had no real personality and those are very formative years also you know like when you were younger you mean when you're a teenager

oh you're a teenager like those things are very informative about who you're going to become and you had that kid hanging over you the kid you were on the movies yeah exactly no that that's people walking up to you holding their face that's always there that's always there man it still happens you know i mean like yeah it's just you know yeah like it just it's you know it's you know and like especially now it's a christmas movie right you know, and like. Especially now, it's a Christmas movie, right? You have no idea. It is the season, man. Like, I get it worse in November, December. It's like, oh, I'm like TNT.

Like, oh, I'm like just like on a repeat kind of thing. This is my time of year where I really get it. Yeah. And you're all queen shaven, so you look like him again. I know, right? Exactly. Like, I'm not like, I'm not all fuzzy underground guy. You're out from underground.

Yeah, exactly. But when you started acting again, I mean, Party Monster, you got good reviews. The movie was liked. It was a good movie. It's a cult movie. It's a neat cult movie. I think Seth Green's freaking fantastic.

I feel like I lost the contest. You try to steal a scene. He kept on stealing every scene. I'm like, dang, he's just so freaking good. I'm very weird about watching myself kind of thing but yeah but that honestly that was that was a blast that was the first like film i'd done in like eight years i did some theater in london for about a year or so like leading up to that what'd you do i was a show called madame melville yeah uh did it in the west end for like you know like eight months or whatever and then i did it in new york for not so in the theater still yeah i don't love it it's it's yeah it's it's my forum yeah anything do you still do it uh it's

been a while it's been a while look i don't really pursue acting i haven't done like you know like i i just did seth he just directed a movie called changeland yeah uh uh and uh it was the first gig i'd done in like 10 years acting wise. Really? Besides like, you know, a little like, you know, like commercial in the UK here and there, like a Japanese thing or something, but like a real kind of acting gig.

Like, yeah, like I just don't pursue it. I don't really do it. Like, you know, I mean, I like it.

I enjoy it. Well, how, what was the part in the Seth Green movie? You're just like this tour guide kind of dude. Yeah. And he, yeah,

pretty much I, I play like a, like almost like this drunkard, like tour boat captain kind of thing. Yeah. And he, yeah, pretty much, I play like, almost like this drunkard, like tour boat captain kind of thing. Yeah. It was fun. Yeah.

My preparation for it was watching Young Guns 1 and 2 and watching Emilio Estevez and Arthur. I watched Arthur. How's that hold up? It's fantastic. I just showed it to my girlfriend

like two, three days ago. And like, yeah, like we both wept when Gilgud dies. Oh, yeah. When Hobson dies. Sure, man. Yeah, it's, I grew up with that movie. Like that movie is actually like my first movie memory.

Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. And so I've probably watched it three times this week. With that laugh, that goofy laugh. Oh, just so good. Dougie Moore's goofy laugh. Oh, Gilgud's so good. Isn't Liza Minnelli in it yeah

Liza Minnelli she's so good in it like give me a cop where's the cop what's your name Chester so you don't really chase in the acting you like doing it you know you you've got freedom to do what you want obviously and now you're going to do a podcast but what what and you're enjoying your life but what do you want to do? I mean, honestly, like, you know, I live well. I drink well. Right. I smoke well.

Yeah. I mean, that's kind of what I want. So you're kind of, okay. You know, my life affords me the opportunities to also do other things also. So like, I can paint and I can show. Yeah. You know, I don't have a hard time finding a show for that. You know, I can do a parody pizza band for a while. What was that? It was the can show. Yeah. I don't have a hard time finding a show for that. I can do a parody pizza band for a while. What was that?

It was the Pizza Underground. Yeah. Do you know this? I did a little reading on it. What was it exactly? Was it a genuine musician undertaking? I mean, there were some, but no, not really. Do you sing or play an instrument?

I played the maracas. Oh, okay. And yeah, it was Velvet underground songs just done about pizza that's really what it was uh it's it's it's that street no it's one of those things where velvet underground parody band yes and it's one of those things where it's a joke and you laugh yeah and then we keep on like repeating the same joke so it gets unfunny and it comes back around again then it becomes hysterical it's a joke for a very small audience take a bite of the wild slice uh you know that's not even a

Velvet Underground song yeah no I know Lou Reed Lou Reed and we have Lou Reed and we also do Nico's solo kind of things too

we never found a John Cale song to cover but oh right but no we were all actually genuine fans of the band that was the whole thing

yeah like yeah so we do like all the pizza parties you know instead of I'll be your mirror I'm little Caesar

about a longer than it should have about a year and a half yeah honestly it was it was a lark that we did we did like an open mic thing and then we did another thing and then we recorded something in my living room max kansas city you're with me on that yeah and then um and then uh uh just put it online and then kind of like forgot about it kind of thing. My friend just put it on Bandcamp. Yeah. And then a month later, I woke up with like 40 calls and text messages

and I thought someone died. I really did. Like, yeah. And then like all of them were like, are you in a pizza band kind of thing? And it blew up. And then we, like we got hired for like a show and we only had eight minutes of material.

It was like one eight minute medley. That's all we had. Cause you know, you can't do a whole songs this way sure and uh so we're just like you know they booked us at this place uh baby's all right and uh we met at the bar down the street and then when we turned the corner and this is the dead of winter this is like zero degrees outside new york there's a line four people wide around the block and we're like whoa what the fuck yeah it was a very you know what it is we kind of hit that hipster strike zone yeah a little bit you know I mean the Brooklyn hipsters freaking loved that kind of thing and so then next thing you know we expand our

repertoire and we like did a couple tours we like toured like three countries like that kind of thing we did how why did it end just because I honestly because I was a little tired to be completely honest people like it out there no people like loved it we we always sold well again i mean we always sold out everywhere uh it was a dina vomer uh austin killam uh uh matt colburn and uh phoebe kreutz and like yeah and you know there's a couple people that are actually like legitimate musicians on it also toby goodshank kind of like joined us you know yeah uh it really was like honestly it was an out-of-tune guitar and like maracas and tambourines and eventually like you know we had some keys to it we had a bass kind of thing like we added some stuff to it but at the same time we were we were a joke parody band i didn't want people walking

away going that was a good show i wanted people walking away and going i had a lot of fun right that's what it was and you do have do you have any serious music out music no not really like you know i mean i have some ideas for some things but like nothing i like kind of kind of pursue i i'm very casual about everything i pursue so like you know by the same time now i actually have a great back catalog of just stuff yeah i mean i have a couple of just like yeah just art shows that are kind of sitting around my apartment yeah now i have a couple of books that are really just sitting around there and kind of collecting dust that I just need the once over kind of thing. But that's the thing.

I treat myself like a retired person. Everything I do is a hobby now. Yeah. And you're okay with it. You like it. Yeah. You feel like you've accomplished what you need to accomplish publicly.

I mean, sure. I mean, I never felt a need kind of thing. I mean, even when I was doing this stuff when I was a kid, I never felt the need to do that kind of thing. I mean, I just kind of just. Even when I was doing this stuff when I was a kid, I never felt the need to do that kind of thing. I just kind of just did it, and I was good at it. I did enjoy it for a long time, but it was also kind of just... You feel full.

Yes. No, honestly, I live a very rich, full, silly life. I wouldn't have it any other way. What's this podcast you're doing? Oh, so it's called Bunny Ears. It's with my buddy, Matt Cohen. And yeah, it really is kind of, it's conversational. Occasionally we have guests on, but that's kind of just, you know, here and there and kind of a smattering.

And it's kind of, I guess, maybe called like a hybrid. But yeah, no, it's just a bunch of dudes. Like we have a really good, you know, repartee. And so it's one of those things where i just listened back to like you know like one of the two episodes that we just did i was like that's the kind of room i'd want to hang out in sure it's that kind of thing it's just a bunch of dudes kind of like yeah just kind of just chatting where do you record it here uh both here in la and in um and in uh new york not in paris not in paris like yeah no that would be start becoming too pricey

uh um and yeah no and it's like yeah we kind of switch off every month kind of thing who comes New York. Not in Paris? Not in Paris. Like, yeah, no. That would start becoming too pricey. And yeah, we kind of switch off every month kind of thing. Who comes where? Yeah, exactly. So you're all good. There's nothing you're not doing that you want to do. Yeah, exactly. And if I wanted to do it, I'd be doing it.

Do you get asked to do parts? Yes. Yeah, I do. I got approached a lot. And I do give some of those the proper weight. And for the most part, I really, like I said, I like the work. What I miss about acting is the summer camp quality. I mean, I love doing the work, too. Don't get me wrong.

But also, I miss the summer camp. Of hanging out with people? Of hanging out with people. For weeks. Don't worry, we're going to stay in touch forever. You never talk to him again. Exactly. Exactly.

I like the camaraderie and all that. That's the part that I miss the most. I don't miss the work. I love the work, and I think I'm good at it, actually. I think I've actually gotten better at it as I age. Did you ever train at all for acting? Not for acting, no. It really was just it was charisma and timing really was what it was like you know yeah like you know yeah i know how it is that's all you need man yeah exactly you know yeah yeah

talent helps yeah exactly i mean like that you know but like i could do but timing is also just like real timing and also comedic timing yeah Sure. Yeah. I always say good timing. Yeah. All right, buddy. Timing. I'm just going to say it right there. It's close. Yeah, you jumped it, but it's good. It was good talking to you, man.

Good talking to you too, man. You feel good about it? No, actually, erase the whole thing. Let's start over. Really? Fuck. Yeah. All right.

Talk to you later. All right. Talk to you later, man. Thank you. See, he's doing all right, that Macaulay Culkin. He's all right living in France, painting, doing whatever the fuck he wants. It's not a bad gig. He does have that new podcast called Bunny Ears.

You can get that wherever you get podcasts. I'm going to sign out here because they're sandblasting my house. And it's just the way it is today, folks. Just the way it is. Boomer lives! Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer.

I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. and ACAS Creative. Calgary is a city built by innovators.

Innovation is in the city's DNA. And it's with this pedigree that bright minds and future-thinking problem solvers are tackling some of the world's greatest challenges from right here in Calgary. From cleaner energy, safe and secure food, efficient movement of goods and people, and better health solutions, Calgary's visionaries are turning heads around the globe, across all sectors, each and every day. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look how at calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com.