WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 889 - Esther Povitsky

Episode Date: February 11, 2018

Almost a decade ago, a down-on-his-luck Marc Maron told 20-year-old aspiring comic Esther Povitsky to run far away from The Comedy Store because it would be the death of her. Thankfully, she did not take his advice and they talk about why that place wound up meaning so much to both of them. They also break down their kindred attachments to ice cream, departed celebrities and sentimental household objects. Esther also explains how her new TV show Alone Together came to be. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life when i die here you'll never leave japan alive fx's shogun a new original series streaming february 27th exclusively on disney plus 18 plus subscription required t's and c's apply all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the

fucking ears what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to. We've done a lot of shows, man. We have been on for a long time. It's been a long time, folks. 800 and some odd shows. Where are we? I can't, like, sometimes I just keep moving. You know, I just keep going. I don't really, you know, pay attention to, you know, what's happened before or how I got here or what, you know, where, like, this is the 889th episode of this podcast, this biweekly podcast.

889, we're closing in on 1,000. We're closing in on 900. I've talked to so many people that sometimes I don't know if I talk to them or not. I just interviewed an old friend of mine, a guy I know from the comedy store comic i can't remember i didn't realize i hadn't had him on uh he'll be on sometime in the future but you know and it's like why not so i i guess what i'm saying is like i'm going back in a little bit i'm

going i'm gonna go make right uh with some folks that uh that should have been on and that that aren't and these are usually comics that are just out there working it they're my co-workers they're my comrades they're my they're part of the same tribe and there's still plenty of them out there and i just got to call them up like this cat i just i ran into him the other night i did a show with him he's like you know you haven't had me on yet i'm like holy, holy fuck, that's true. So I just texted him and come over. There was no big booking, no big, you know, entourage, no big, you know, movie star, anything. No junket, just old school.

Come on by on Sunday. Let's hang out. We just had a great talk. But even today, Esther, Esther, Esther Povitsky, little Esther. I've known her for years. And it was just, you know, sometimes the time wasn't just, it just, the time wasn't right. I met her, geez, probably,

I don't even think I'd started the podcast yet. I met her when I was, you know, just in the throes of being a miserable fuck. You know, at the end of my rope. She was a kid, it seemed like, at the comedy store. And I just remember telling her like, yeah, what are you doing here? Why get out of out of here it's gonna it's gonna destroy you she did not take my advice and now she's got this this uh wonderful little uh show on tv it's a funny show and i'm

glad that we i'm glad we waited actually to talk uh me and esther she's got this show alone together it's on you can get it on hulu it's on freeform but i get it on hulu i was able to watch it it was one of those things where you know i i she was coming on it had been set up and uh i was like fuck i don't even know if i can watch your show and i'm like hey i did you can get on hulu i asked her if she knew that yeah it's her and this other comic, Benji Afualo. And I don't really know him, but I see him around. But I don't go back with him. Like, I feel like I've known Esther since she was a kid.

Anyways, Esther's here today. And we had a great talk. So what else? Like, I'm trying not to get emotional, it seems, with my big move. I'm just not. I'm detaching from the grief in some way because like my house looks totally different because i painted it and i have cleaned the floors up and painted the outside but uh i've not decided really in my heart what i'm going to do with

the house yet i believe i'm going to sell it but there's part of me that's sort of like yeah but maybe i should just have it around. Maybe I should keep, maybe I should rent it. Maybe I should use it as an office. I should probably sell it. I, yeah. And some of that, see, like, because I haven't committed to that fully, I'm still excited about the new place, but you know, I'm, I'm loving it there, but I'm not letting go. I'm not letting go. And in that, that's going to happen happen that's going to happen soon and i'll and i'll i'll bring you along i'll bring you people along for it okay so yeah i'm going to carry you people well i'm going to i'm going to for those of you who choose to be part of it i'm going to i'm going to we'll evolve through the grief together i just wanted to read these two emails because they seem to have come to get they seem to work together and i don't know if it's the right thing

to read them for this one guy anyways subject line how boomer and in parentheses almost found me love hey mark i've been an avid listener since 2012 thank you for making my commute not shitty on mondays and thursdays some of my personal favorite episodes include Dax Shepard, Romney Malco, and more recently, Marilyn Manson. What a strange and interesting dude. Anyway, a few months back, my girlfriend of five years broke up with me out of the blue. I'm 28, so after spending all of my mid-20s with the same girl, I was late to the online dating scene that so many of my peers have experienced and had luck with. I eventually made an OKCupid account, filled out the profile, dug up some semi-flattering photos of myself, the whole nine. After looking through countless girls' profiles, writing messages, and having lots of uninspired

conversations, I was finding the whole experience underwhelming and was about ready to throw the towel in. That is until I came across Nick. She seemed amazing, beautiful, with a witty profile, good taste in music, and an affinity for spicy food. When I saw that she listened to WTF, I knew the perfect opening message to send. Boomer lives, in quotes. A few weeks go by, no response. I send a follow up message about an art performance she mentioned in her profile. Also no response.

After another couple of weeks, she finally wrote back saying, I don't know why this message got put into a weird folder. Hi. Both of these messages are awesome. She then went on to talk about the performance she saw in greater detail and asked me a few questions. I was thrilled. I wrote back only to never hear from her again. During this time, OKCupid was going through policy changes about how users are matched when girls see messages from guys, etc. I think this had something to do with what took her so long to come across my initial messages and like to believe that she never saw the later one. This girl seems like the real deal.

If this email ever got read on your show, I know she'd be listening. So if you could please help me out, Nick, go back online and find Alex's profile and messages. He's the dude with the shaggy brown hair who drinks a lot of seltzer and doesn't watch football. Thanks for all you do. Mark Boomer lives, Alex. Like I, this is a, this is a kind of a long email and you know maybe i don't know what happened i'm not here to make matches i'm not here to help people out with their dating i don't usually do this and maybe this woman is just sort of like decided maybe she's moved on maybe there's any number of options but i just thought it was uh i just thought it was nice that

people who know the show you know are getting together around the show and uh and in but like i'm worried about this guy like i don't want him to tip over into like sort of like uh i don't want him to get obsessed i don't want him to go go nutty you know what i mean i think this was you know this was a uh there was a nice line here that you know like you know he's just he's just hoping for the best here he's hoping for the best doesn't seem like you know he's losing his mind if he gave me all the information you know maybe yeah it's it's a little desperate i feel for him maybe this will work out i don't know i don't you know i i hope i'm not exacerbating a situation that just wasn't meant to be. But a couple emails after that one, I get this.

Officiant of a wedding. Hi, Mark. I wrote and erased the first line to this email a good 10 times because I have no idea how to tell you that I'm a fan. But I was just asked to officiate a wedding of two friends of mine that are huge fans of yours. The reason I didn't know how to word it was because I don't want you to think I'm not a big fan, but that these two, especially the girl, are really big big fans i wanted to get them something great for their wedding and i was wondering if you would send me a letter giving them advice or anything and i would i will frame it and give it to them on their wedding day if if if not that's okay now you know two huge

fans of yours are getting married to each other their names are kate and kyle thanks mark j kate and kyle advice for being married uh look you know i'm again you know maybe this is i maybe this is giving my last email guys you know too much hope to alex i don't know but but this is again a unique thing and i don't i don't know that that i'm the guy for marriage advice. I mean, I'm glad they like my show, but if they like my show, they also know that I have not been successful in two marriages. I was engaged, that didn't work out.

Most of my relationships have done nothing but harden my heart and made me cynical and defensive. And I just, I don't know, I don't know. But the relationship I'm in now is good because you know we're both independent we mind our own business around some things and we we have mutual respect for each other she does a different thing than me i respect her work she respects my work we we get along we're not she's not the usual type of person that our crazies don't mesh into a one big crazy we are uniquely uh crazy we're crazy in different ways that don't have the same sort of destructive effects on each other and uh

but like i'm i'm a little uh i'm scared of marriage so i'm not sure this is the right advice i don't i don't see any reason to be married again so good luck get the just just try to be just try to work through stuff before here's the only advice i can say and i don't always heed it try to communicate and work through bullshit before it gets all consuming and is too late do not let resentments fester to their point of malignancy where you can't get back to where you were when you had the love try to communicate and if things feel wrong try to talk about it before reacting to it without letting the other person in on it. If you're having a problem with the person in your mind, you know, share it. So you don't just react to it in your mind and that escalates and they have no idea what the fuck is wrong with you.

Does that make sense? But congratulations, Kate and Kyle, on your upcoming nuptials. And good luck, in, uh, in tracking down the elusive Nick, but don't, uh, don't, you know, just,

just let it be. If she doesn't get back to you, let it be. All right. Now just don't, don't cause trouble. So Esther. Povitsky.

Um, is very funny and, uh, very, uh, interesting. And I haven't talked to her in a long time. And her new show, Alone Together,

new episodes are Wednesday nights at 8.30 on Freeform. It's already been picked up for a second season. You can watch it on Hulu. But this is me talking to Esther. And it was very nice. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy?

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This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by james clavelle to show your true heart is to risk your life when i die here you'll never leave japan alive fx's shogun a new original series streaming february 27th exclusively on disney plus 18 plus subscription required t's and C's apply. Does it make you queasy, like green tea? No, green tea doesn't do any of the bad stuff to me. No, I mean, like, what is the other bad stuff?

Well... Oh, you mean the caffeine thing? The mania and then the crash. But don't you get nauseous when you drink it with nothing in your stomach? Well, I don't do that. And I usually drink it with... I mean, I haven't had a coffee in so long because I'm trying to avoid this crazy high thing. Really? Yeah.

But I'm like, I don't even take Advil. I've never tried alcohol or drugs. Like, for me, caffeine is such a huge it's a huge deal for my system yeah it's i i stopped drinking coffee i did what do you do now i'm drinking black tea but it's just not the same i i stopped drinking coffee because i was drinking like two or three pots a day and what did it do to you well eventually you just tap out you just get nauseous how How do you sleep? I don't, it's weird because my tolerance was so high.

I was not having that hard a time sleeping. And I would drink it on the way to the store. I would drink like a fucking big old cup of coffee at eight o'clock on my way to the comedy store. Wait, you know what's crazy is like when I hear you say that, I'm like, that's so romantic to me. Really? It's like so cool and edgy. Like I drink black coffee at night. It's like, I don't need a gross meal like the rest of you.

Oh, I want to be that person. But then I'd eat later. Yeah. I mean, that's edgy. Boy, things have really changed. You're not running with a fast crowd over there. No, I said, I've never, I'm like, I've never tried alcohol or anything. Seriously?

Yeah. Seriously? Yeah. Seriously. All right. So. Well, no, I mean, I believe you. I have no reason not to believe you. I just like, I don't know. When did, when did I, when did we first meet?

How long ago was that? That was in 2009 when I i first first started stand-up so it was right really it was that long ago that was like right when i was starting this so i was you hadn't started this yet you were like in trouble yeah i mean i don't want to say it but yeah like you were someone that me and the other comics there really looked up to and idolized, but you were also like kind of, you know, on your way down. You guys are just watching me spiral? Yeah. Well, just like, I don't know. I think when you're at the comedy store,

it's hard to look up to the, this was the culture there that I like. Well, let's be specific about that. So 2009, when I sort of like i tried so it was before i started this in the garage or i hadn't done any you had some kind of weird online talk show but it was not this so it must have been early 2009 it was you were living in new york i think right going back and forth so it was towards the end of right we hadn't quite started it yet yeah because was this started in earnest in 2009 oh so i was like you were yeah just sort of like miserable and out of my mind and full of panic and

darkness yeah and like i said like it was hard for those the the darkness of the comedy store they don't the youngins there don't worship the people on top they kind of worship like the gritty person and that's who you were at that time the guys that never quite did it yeah but were integrated into the mythology of the store that's right yeah right because at that time the store was being run by a new generation of maniacs yes there was i would argue that no one was running it right it was just chaos it was before uh peter shore kind of cleaned things up and yeah but like it was who were the door guys was that what ari was a door

guy then no no that was before me it was i mean i don't know if it's people you know but like tony hinchcliffe was a door guy well you were dating him i think when yeah we met yes yeah well we had like we were kind of starting to have a thing. Right. But you actually gave me really good advice. I was thinking back on it, and I feel like I misled you. Really? No, I mean, because I thought, I remember giving you a ride somewhere and telling you,

Get out of the store. Get out of the store. Yeah. You gave me good advice. You said, go to UCB. You don't belong here this is a bad place this is dark you're not this go to UCB and I was I knew I knew that you were giving me good advice yeah it was the right advice and like I had known that advice before but I I just didn't take it I know but that that's impressive because you hung in there somehow and

you're you're doing very well and you hung in with those monsters. I think maybe that you didn't see the darkness in me. That must have been it. No, I don't know what it was. I don't know. But like I said, you did give good advice and I did put up with a lot of shit that I probably shouldn't have had to put up with when I was there. So I gave you a good warning.

Yeah. But you must have kind of known it. Yeah, I did. Of course I did. I mean, I only wandered into the comedy store because it was a comedy club that my dad said he went to in the 80s and that some bar owner said I could do stand up there. And then I just really liked it. Yeah. Well, that's got a charm.

But you seem to be fortunate in that whatever your disposition is, there are certain people that I don't know, like I noticed it in your act and also in your show that you're just not going to be taken down by the that bullshit no i don't know you have some sort of emotional insulation that enables you to to seem sort of like um wide-eyed and innocent but and move through these hellscapes but like it reminds like sarah's a little like that silverman in just in the sense where she was always around all of us but it was just like and move through these hellscapes. But Sarah's a little like that, Silverman, just in the sense where she was always around all of us, but it was just like she was always never going to be kind of jarred by the garbage. Right.

You know what I mean? She rose above it sort of effortlessly. Yeah, no, that's true. I mean, you have that too, though. You have the darkness. Maybe not the wide-eyed. No, no. I've been beaten by it a few times.

Like, I took my licks. I didn't rise above anything. Oh, my God. Over time, I got old and things started to happen, and I felt better about myself. But there was no rising above. If I was there during whatever that evolution was, whatever the, during the, I think, the Rogan-dominated years, you know, during the sort of- That was before me. A little before you, yeah.

Which I wasn't. You know, I wasn't really around for that, where, you know, you had these weird fights and Mitzi was still conscious. Right. And, you know, Caparulo was doing a half-hour set and there was fighting between certain factions at the store. Yeah, that's the stuff I heard about when I got there.

But by the time I got there, Rogan was banned. And Mitzi was still, I would say in the first two years I was there, she showed up three times. But it wasn't. Wasn't good. It wasn't good. I know. She wasn't as terrifying as she once was. Yeah, and we'd stay there until three or four in the morning.

And it was just like... Who was your crew? You and Tony? It was Dan Madonia. And Benji was there sometimes. And I would stay late with Don Barris. That's right. See, that was why I was sort of concerned.

You were part of that whole weird late night Don Barris, Brody Stevens parade of weirdness. Yeah, I don't know how that happened, but it did. Weird late night Don Barris Brody Stevens parade of weirdness. Yeah. I don't know how that happened, but it did. And I remember my parents would tell their friends, oh, she's doing comedy. She's out till 4 a.m. every night. And that their friends would be like, your daughter's on drugs. And they'd have to be like, no, we know she's not. But no one believed us.

But like, I don't even, I never stay at the store that late because something happens around 11. Oh yeah. No, now I would never. Now I'm like, I'm up at 8.30 and I'm gone and in bed by 10. I think that that damaged me so much. Like living that lifestyle, my first year or two in comedy where I was out till, I was at the store because I was obsessed with the store.

I was there at nine when the show started, whenever was and then I would stay till two three four and then I would sleep all day and then go nanny or whatever job I had that at that time and that was so it became so depressing like going to subway at night at 4 a.m it just like really takes a lot of you but you you were you're the real deal you must you loved it you were you know you wanted to you wanted to live at the store but because of that you now kind of go up with confidence you understand it you're part of the place i mean it's a very specific place yeah well let's go back so where'd you come from uh skokie illinois skokie yeah this but that is that's like uh that's like kind of dark illinois no? No. Why do I know that name? Isn't that where the Nazis marched?

There was a Nazi march there. That's what it's famous for. But that was a long time ago. That was before my time. But yeah, it's a very diverse community. It's a suburb of Chicago. Oh, it is? It's close to Chicago?

Yeah, it's very close. I grew up on the border of Skokie and Evanston. It's not quite a nice suburb, though. It's not a shithole. It's not Highland Park? It's not Highland Park. That's right know it's not a shit it's not highland park it's not highland park that's right but you jewish i'm half jewish half jewish yeah your dad's jewish yeah my dad's jewish my mom's a very quiet finnish woman a very nice was a cheerleader in high school she's just so normal and your dad is what a bombastic jew yes just a jew and it's really just a g you know what i'm talking about

with lots of problems and personality oh really like what what'd he do oh he was a compulsive gambler oh that's great but we're very close now what do you did he get recovery what'd he do he was always in ga but yeah he's been clean for a long time now you got brothers and sisters i have a half older sister for my mom's first marriage oh yeah and she's like very normal so she's a single mother of two and lives in illinois uh-huh she's also quiet really yeah so your mom is just a really a passive kind of like are they still married? They are still together.

And I always, I explain them as like a toxic combination and not in a bad way, just that they just make no sense to be together. It's just weird. I don't know. Is it like sometimes like I've noticed that there are people who kind of would rather just be with somebody who was high maintenance and full energy. And then they don't have to engage much. They just watch that person spin around and they help out a little and try to guide a little bit

and hope that they don't get caught in the crossfire of whatever that person is going through. But it enables them to not engage emotionally. Oh, that sounds like a dream partner for me. You know what I mean, though? Yeah. Like, I just noticed it because my mother seems to find herself with men that spin around. And because of that, it took me a long time to realize she does not have to expose herself emotionally that much because they're so fucking needy. Right.

And I shouldn't, I just did a show where I talked to my parents and they. You talked about them? Yeah, I talked to how I was. On TV? Yeah. Well, I talked about them. Yeah. I talked to how I was on TV. Yeah. Well, I guess the internet, I was,

I feel like I was watched, not raised. And they, they, which is so real. Like they kept me safe, but they didn't like engage. Yeah.

Because they're self-involved, right? Yeah. Well, my dad was, I don't know, but then my parents called me after that aired and they were like, Oh,

we're so sorry. We didn't hang out with you. they just totally made fun of me for it and i feel like maybe oh really yeah they made fun of you though for it because my parents at this stage when i do stuff like that about them they're like my mother's like i'm sorry i really didn't know that that's what was happening i can't believe they take you seriously i'm very serious that's cool have you ever watched my comedy it's all real i'm not hiding behind much but but no but i i think that that's an interesting observation that you were watched but not raised yeah well like yeah because they're worried about certain things that make them nervous but they this is my parents like they were worried and panicky but it was only how it would affect them they had no ability to really nurture or guide yeah so i'm just sort of left

to my own devices to wander the world looking for an identity yeah and like watch tv and try to find attention from something watch comics yeah look at people with stronger personalities yeah kind of lock on yeah that's so real yeah because i always feel like strong women have such a profound effect on me and i think it's because i'm seeking that out from having like a quiet sure which or just having like you know it's i think innately you're like they seem to be able to handle life and maybe i'll go hang around with them yeah i would be the perfect like cult sub or victim yeah but see that's the funny thing about you is that maybe you would but i don't think so because

there's something deeper that allows you to to uh protect yourself from it because being that you have this attraction to the store that is sort of culty because there's only it's a very specific thing that you know because when you tell store, that is sort of culty because there's only, it's a very specific thing. You know, because when you tell people, like, I love this place and they're like, normies are like, why? Do you know, like when I was there, like, and I'd have like a woman come out and visit me and hang out for the weekend. And I was just up in that house doing drugs with a bunch of gypsies and weirdos. And I was like, isn't this great? And they're like, no, no, no one wants to live like this.

I'm like, you don't know. Yeah, it is weird. Like, why did I like staying till 3 a.m. when there was three people in the audience and like doing. It's the best. Yeah, I know. It was very magical. That's the best when like, it's just like, and they're all sitting in different places. Yes, they're scattered. They're so scattered.

The scattered nine. they're so scattered the scattered nine i don't know because it's like a it's a completely unique experience and place that nobody it's it's as far away from normal as you can get without breaking the law yeah yeah and also feeling like you're doing the thing you want to do because for me that represented comedy and it's like yeah this is chaotic and definitely unprofessional but it was still felt like i was on the path i i wanted to be well you obviously bought into the idea that this was the path that there was no see that was something i probably didn't take into consideration when i talked to you because i didn't know you is that you had already bought into the program at the store. Yeah.

So you're in Skokie. But you know what's interesting to me is that you had these passive parents or parents that would give you stuff and were protected. They were providers, but not necessarily emotional guides or anything else. Yet somehow or another, you ended up okay. I've noticed that, because you could go either way if you have that liberty, but they must have implemented enough guilt or something in you

to where you didn't get all fucked up or. Not guilt. Guilt was not a part of our game. But I think that my family, a part of the like, kind of what I explained earlier, like it wasn't like they were parents. It was more like everybody was equal. That's what I say about my parents. It's like people like, yeah, I used to do a joke like that.

I don't really see him as parents or just people I grew up with. Yeah, no, it's true. Like, I feel like everyone in my household wasn't equal and had equal say in all this stuff. And so I think from that, there is still like a familial relationship, of course. And like, I don't know i just i felt close to them because of that and i obviously had to work hard to get close to them because sometimes they didn't want to hang out with me and so it was just i don't know there were but

do you but let me ask you this just out of my own curiosity because of my experience like i don't look at them as parents really i know they're parents, but I would never ask them for advice or like ask them to. But who asks their parents for advice? That's so weird to me. Normal people. Some normal people respect what their parents judgment and stuff like. I do not have that. You know, like, like, you know what?

My dad would know the best thing to do is something I would never say. I see them as like now I see them as their family, but it's also like a friendship. And I mean, I love being around them now because they're just so funny to me. And but yeah, no, I don't. I wouldn't say I'd ask for advice. Well, how did the gambling manifest itself when you were younger? Just gone a lot, like gone to Las Vegas a lot. Oh, really?

Yeah. So he was out. He wasn't working the phones calling bookies he was out in the world doing it yeah yeah so he'd go on benders to vegas yeah illinois but i didn't understand the concept that they were benders because he would just come home and then i'd get a bunch of toys like because he'd bring stuff from the gift shop so to me it was all fun and games he's bringing this to you a bunch of gift shop toys but you have to sell the car it was how bad did it get um i don't i think that he from what i understand he was left money by his because we i grew up in the house he grew up and his parents died before yeah we came around and

from what i understand is he was kind of left some money and then that money went away oh got it yeah sure like he wanted to make it bigger and it got smaller. Maybe. And was your half sister growing up in the house with you all? She was. How much older is she? Seven years. Oh, so that's wild.

Yeah. So she was very cool and without being offensive, she wasn't half Jewish, so she was very pretty. And so she was the cool tall skinny pretty big boobed older sister who didn't want anything to do with me so that's well that seems to be a an important part of your persona you should thank her yeah it seems it seems to be your struggle yeah you know that like why didn't you get the the uh the other side of the genetic uh layout yeah because the jewish genes really, because the Jewish genes really dominate it. Oh, it's not so bad.

It's okay. It's not so bad. No, I'm lovely. Is your dad short? No, he's not. My dad's actually really tall, but I ended up short. His mother must have been short. Yeah, I think the women.

Because I watched some of the show, the, what is it, Alone Forever? Alone Together. Alone Together. I watched it and it was funny. Oh, thanks. Because there's a sort of detached groove. But I found it kind of emotional too.

Do you know, I imagine it's intentional, the tone. Is it? I think so. I don't know what tone you picked up on but it sounds like well just that your rapport like you're both kind of you know um and i don't know if it's a like a millennial thing or what that there there seems to be an emotional attachment about detachment about how you engage and how you go at each other like benji seems like everything's you know kind of a conversation uh in turn in turn it's not um like you always have something witty to say you're seems like everything's, you know, kind of a conversation.

It's not like you always have something witty to say. You're always sort of cutting each other down. Yeah, I think what you mean, well, because he says mean stuff to me and it bounces off me. Yeah. Like, yeah, that's real unintentional because that's like, yeah, like I said, I was kind of teased by my parents. And so for me, when someone is mean to me, that's loving and shows that they get me and understand me. And, you know, they know me.

So your parents were mean to you? They teased me. This is like, it's so fucked up, but because it's kind of offensive. But when I was growing up, my parents, my family teased me because they thought I was gay. And they called me Andrew Cunanan. And like. What does that name mean? family teased me because they thought i was gay yeah and they called me andrew cunanan and like what does that name mean he's the guy who killed versace oh yeah i didn't know that yeah okay yeah but so i was they were not like they weren't they they teased me a lot your passive mother

your quiet mother no my mom was just quiet so my dad and my sister they would make fun of me but i don't like it's a it's weird because back then you you would tease someone for being gay and now you wouldn't i hope you wouldn't but that's kind of what there are plenty of people that still do that yeah that's true it's really horrible yeah so okay so they would tease you but you this so you learned that that was a sign of affection. It was affectionate and it was funny. It hurt you and you laughed. Exactly. That's not great. But it shows that they like, oh, they know something about me.

So they know how to make fun of me. So that's good. They know me. Yeah, I think that's true. I think there's other ways to get an emotional connection. But, you know, I know that I have that. You know, I don't, I feel like I'm just trying to relate because I think we have uh similarities that like you learned that that because I I do that too it's easier to do

that than to just be if you're that type of person insecure like it's easier to to get emotional reactions by being mildly hurtful than it is to be like we're proud of you we love you yeah in fact like when my parents say that kind of stuff now, it's weird. I don't like it. Right. Yeah. I don't buy it. Yeah.

It's like, don't give me that shit now. Yeah. Or like hugs. Yeah. Just be. Hugs feel weird. But you must, you must like it because when we first started this conversation, we talked about how you were like on your way down when we first met and you got, you've enjoyed that. I know. I didn't enjoy it. Oh, you enjoyed when we talked about how you were like on your way down when we first met and you got you've enjoyed that

no i know i didn't oh you enjoyed when we talked about it well that's because i didn't go i'm here yeah i don't know if i had followed that trajectory that you know this would be a peppy conversation yeah that's true you know like i'm glad i made it out yeah but no i like hearing about that stuff i mean you you know, I, I'm always surprised when people, you know, there's certain parts of my past where people are like,

oh, you did, you were like this. And I'm like, oh, that's terrible. But I do laugh at it. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I always think I have more impact on people than I really do. Cause I'm always worried that, you know, like I did something, but they're all,

everyone seems to like, no, we just, they, they are like, we, we knew you had problems. We didn't get too involved. You know, like I did something, but they're all, everyone seems to like, no, we just, they are like, we knew you had problems. We didn't get too involved.

You know, we saw you, but we stayed over here. But it's so, okay. So the dynamic with you and Benji is sort of genuine. But like I wasn't being critical of it. It just, it's just, there's a, it's a unique dynamic because it's funny and you both understand each other but you're both sort of completely self-involved you know in a way but it's sort of sweet and you know i got i got a little emotional at the end of one of them with the little kid i but i'm kind of emotional i'm kind of menopausal or something everything's kind of moving me but with the little kid in the book and you know when he kicks uh benji yeah yeah oh

you watched that one and your your little West Side Story dance. How many are there? There are 10? There's 10 episodes, yeah. So, like, what is Freeform? Like, when I first started looking for it, I'm like, where is it? So, it's a channel on TV.

It used to be ABC Family, and they renamed themselves. Right, but I just was, I'm like, I have Hulu, like, I pay for Hulu, so I'm like, I can watch it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, our show is on Hulu. Right. So, I'm like, okay, I don, like I pay for Hulu. So I'm like, I can watch it. Oh yeah. It's every, all their, yeah, our show is on Hulu.

Right. So I'm like, okay, I don't need to know what it is. I know. It makes it so easy that it's on Hulu. It's really great. It is. Yeah. Is it on regular television?

Yeah. Freeform is regular TV. So it airs on Freeform every Wednesday. And then the next day the episodes go live on Hulu. And you got picked up. Yeah. We're writing the second season right now. So ABC Family, so they must have changed their kind of attitude.

They sure did. I can't see this as being a family show. Well, yeah, because when we had our pilot episode, when we sold it to them, it was about an escort. And we were like, okay, I guess we have to change this. And they're like, no, that's fine. So we were very surprised. They were taking chances. I think we're the first

Disney escort show. Do you stay in escort? No, no, I don't. It's only the first episode. The second episode, right? Or no, I guess the first one. Yeah. But it looks like you got

a lot of good guest stars, people from the store, big actors, Denise Richards. Yeah, Chelsea Peretti, Bobby Lee, big store fixture. But you asked me to do it and I was like, I know. Yeah, Chelsea Peretti, Bobby Lee, Big Store Fixture. You asked me to do it and I was like, eh.

I know. Maybe season two, we'll see. Yeah, you still want me to do it? Yeah, why wouldn't I? Yeah, it depends what you want me to do. What did you want me to do last time? Last time, well, I shouldn't say because I don't want people to have that in their heads

when they see. Oh, was it for this season? No, it was for last season, wasn't it? Yeah, but people are gonna see that person and oh you know we'll do it off mic yeah all right so so you're in skokie you're you're in high school are you like do you have friends yeah you're normal yeah i had a boyfriend and friends what kind of boyfriend what kind of car whoa what a question he had a good car yeah i don't i don't i shouldn't talk about him because i'm like i'm kind of still obsessed with him even though i've moved on and i'm in a serious relationship but he's like blocked me on all social media and like once it's like seems like

he wants nothing to do with me really yeah out of nowhere well you know it's never out of nowhere you talked about him on a thing no i didn't but i was like texting him when i first moved out here because he broke my heart you know he cheated on me dumped me and then like fell in love with someone else and when i moved out here i kind of got the confidence because i was at the store and i was all cool you had the dark confidence yeah and so i dark magic i started reaching out was like hey like what's the like what happened blah blah blah and he just was like i don't want to hear from you and i don't want to talk to you and then he blocked me and on on all all the things that you can block a person wow so that was years ago, though. It was. What kind of car?

It's so specific. He had like his grandfather's yellow Mustang. Really? Like from the 60s or 70s? 70s, I think. Oh, yeah? Like a metal one, like a good one. Yeah. Why do you ask what kind of car? You must just be into cars. No, not really. Oh. Just curious, trying to paint a picture of high school you and your dude.

Yeah. And a yellow Mustang, an old yellow Mustang, a vintage yellow Mustang picture of high school you and your dude. Yeah. In a yellow Mustang, an old yellow Mustang, a vintage yellow Mustang. Yeah, I guess that was cool. Pretty specific, right? But he was a year older, so then he went away, and then my senior year I was by myself. But that's when I got really close to my family, because every Friday after school- Yeah, what kind of car do they have? I'm driving it to this day, a 2001 Toyotaota camry it's my car right now those are great cars i know i have a camry really i never want to get rid of it oh it's so good like that

so i don't i can't picture 2001 i had a fucking 95 camry back in 2004 and it was great because they were made by the same company as lexus so there's very little difference between the camry and the lexus at that time yeah people say that i have that car for attention because it's so awful but i like it i think it's a good car is it were they still big then like because it got smaller yeah it's still bigger i mean yeah like in the 90s the camrys were like a luxury car almost it felt like the one i had it's a big gold one bought it off the schizophrenic guy. Oh, I think I'm one generation, one body generation past that one. No, yeah, probably. Yeah.

So you still got the family car. Yeah. Why don't you buy it? You don't want to? You know what? I decided I was going to buy a new car last year and then I was so overwhelmed and couldn't pick out a car

and I'm like, my car's fine. Forget it. I get overwhelmed easily as well. Like the fact that I'm having this work done on the house is just testing every part of me are you do you live here i'm not living here right now right you know but the garage is obviously still perfectly intact it is yeah and i'm i don't know what i'm gonna do i i moved i moved and uh you know it's historical i get it you know i but i don't know what i'm

gonna do with this house there's no big urgency or but i don't know what i'm gonna do with this house there's no big urgency or plan i don't know if i'm gonna keep the garage i'm like really on the fence about everything i'm ready to set up at the other place but there's still part of me that's sort of like but this is the one this is the garage are you like a hoarder what no well because that's a hoarder's mentality is, I can't get rid of this. It has this meaning. And oh, I know I need it. Uh-huh.

No, but I mean. You seem surprised by that. But I'm not collecting houses. No, no, but. I think what I'm experiencing is a natural, real, reasonable kind of connection to a place that I've been in a long time. I mean, like if I couldn't throw away all of these books and boxes, then you'd have an argument there. Like the argument, like I can't wait to go through this stuff so I can just throw it away. I'm in a place where I can throw things away and I believe that

I can. But people there's, I just, I know there are some people that could just walk away. I'm like you, I'm very sentimental. I lived in the same house my whole childhood. Like I love going back to that house. Yeah. I don't like leaving. Yeah. I don't like getting rid of places or things, but I also am the same way with things. That's why I asked,

but I'm not a hoarder, but I have a hoarder's mentality where I can't get, let go of stuff. Do you have a lot of stuff? Not, not a lot. Not anymore or ever? No,

it's not a lot, but I have things that are like the theater t-shirt i wore in high school it's like why i don't need that i have so many t-shirts from like from 20 years ago yeah and then i think about things that i did get rid of and i'm so upset and i'm what like a juicy couture sweatsuit that i bought in high school because britney spears's wedding party wore them and i'm like, why did I get rid of that? I should have had that forever. So that's... To wear or just to

own? To both. To wear as a joke and to own as a freak. Huh. Like, why do I... Why do you still think about it? Why do I... Yeah, why do I still think about it? Why am I on eBay trying to find it? That's pathetic. Why are you though? Did you figure it out?

What do you think? Um, oh, I don't know. You don't? Do you know? Can you answer? I'm trying to think what that feeling is. Well, I just want, it's a, it was mine and I want it and now it's gone. Huh?

Cause like, I'm trying to think like why, like I i have literally got 20 30 year old t-shirts that have just kept moving i don't wear them anymore because a lot of them are just falling apart or they're just not part of my personality anymore but like they they represent something they represent a different version of me or some part of me like part of my evolution like i you know what i mean like where would they go if i didn't have them like i imagine someone else would wear them but there are shirts that i had to wear over and over again because i had to wear them because it's all you had no because you know they they they were what i was wearing like i I commit pretty heavy to pants, shoes, shirts.

I have a lot of fucking stuff, but at any given time, I'm only rotating two or three things. I'm so curious about your old t-shirts now. Are they cool? I like want them. Really? They sound cool.

Okay. I mean, I'll find you one. Okay. Do you wear t-shirts? So you look like you're all, you're not the same Esther that I knew. I so am. I'm wearing jeans and a flannel. But you look put you're not the same Esther that I knew. I so am. I'm wearing jeans and a flannel.

But you look put together, tucked in. That's how bad I am. You're talking about your old stuff and I'm like, I want it. I want to go through your old stuff. You want to go through my old stuff? Here, look at this. This is a good example. And this just happens to be in here.

Because the guy who's fixing my house i just remembered this you know found these in some cabinet these are original cobs comedy club t-shirts those are cool like from you know from the this is probably from the 90s and like i would wear these constantly it's not too um over the top doesn't demand too much attention yeah it's black with white lettering it's kind of unique you know it represents it's sort of like a team shirt like i'm a comic yeah i guess it was weird to me because i can't imagine wearing a comedy store t-shirt every day that would feel weird to me oh i used to because i was a doorman right we had to wear them i still have to wear them? I think so.

Oh, look, I forgot this shirt. This is a good shirt. Iggy and the Stooges shirt. I forgot I even had this. Why am I not wearing this all the time? I think what you have on now is better. Yeah, that's what happened. I got out of t-shirts.

Yeah. I literally decided I can't wear stuff that has anything on it. Why? Because it's like juvenile? No, because like I got it really, it's got to be graphically satisfying and I have to believe in whatever I have on my shirt. And I think that like at my age of 54, if I'm walking around with a black Iggy and the Stooges shirt, that's sort of like, there's something kind of tragic about that, especially with black jeans. That is so real. Yeah, there is something tragic about that. Wow, you're right.

Like I said, I think stick with what you're doing. It's good. Yeah, like there's a couple shirts that I have that I'll commit to one or two things on them, like a permanent record shirt I wear sometimes? I last week bought, I spent $100 on a limited edition Guess jeans and a Nicole Smith t-shirt.

And I'm just like, what am I, what's wrong with me? Well, yeah, but she's not on it. It's just like- She's on it. It's a giant t-shirt with a picture of her. Giant? Yeah, it's too big

how much you spend a hundred dollars and what are you gonna do with sleep in it i don't know i mean i love anna nicole smith and i saw it and i was like take my money but now i'm i don't i just feel like a chump what about her what about her what why do you love her because she's gorgeous and like trash that made it to the top and then had a tragic end it's just really fascinating yeah yeah that's your that's your jam a little bit part of my jam i also like britney murphy and i mean dead celebrities are attractive to me seriously yeah you ever go to the cemetery yeah, we have a cemetery written into one of our episodes coming up. But yeah, I think it comes from being a lonely child.

Were you an only child? No. So I felt I was a lonely child. But I'm fascinated with certain dead celebrities. Well, tell me if you relate to this. Okay. So when you're like a lonely kid and you don't have family members who want to hang out with you, you're sitting a lonely kid and you don't have family members who want to hang out with you, you're sitting at home.

I felt drawn towards dead people because like I could have ownership over them and could think about them and feel like, I don't know, like I could control my relationship with them and think about them and have them in my life. Really? Did I say that? Is that too crazy? No, I'm just trying to understand the logic of it. So you're not saying only child. You're saying lonely child. Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know what is fascinating about dead celebrities, but I used to be pretty fascinated with old black and white film stars. Most of them are dead. Like who? Well, I used to just be fascinated with the pictures of them, even like Charlie Chaplin, Fatty Arbuckle. I had these books. Well, I didn't even know the movies, but there was something about Hollywood and black and white and that they were all dead and that it was so, you know, glamorous and weird, but it was still sort of sorted and fucked up.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm into that. Right. was almost prophetic that i ended up at the comedy store with that weird ass you know uh wallpaper that they had in the bathrooms in the back hallway with like you know eddie canter on it and you know ben turpin and all these weird old you know the you know laurel and hardy remember that wallpaper of course i do like i think she had that shit made it was you can't find it anymore i think eric tried to find it again it's nowhere to be found is it not there at all anymore no it's gone those bathrooms are gone like those two back bathrooms in the hallway gone you know and all that wallpaper in the green room upstairs oh like a jungle yeah it's gone i know that's sad

man you know that's what happened in the last three or four years which is a good thing because the store is thriving and there's audiences there which is not something i'm used to but like doors that were always open so it started to be locked yeah because freaks got in there they started letting all this riffraff in with the produce shows upstairs i guess yeah and people were fucking things up because comics are animals yeah but that was like kind of the fun of it. The best. Yeah. It was the best. When you could go up into those hallways and you'd get up

to the locked door and be like, what's in there? Yeah. The offices. Or you're like, Mitzi's office. Mitzi's office.

Oh my God, I made it in there once. Oh, now it's so sad. It's just boxes. I don't even know if they've cleaned it out yet. But it was like being a kid and going to somebody's house

and their parents were gone and you could just do whatever you wanted. Oh yeah. So, okay. So you, you get out of high school. Did you go to college? I did. I went to the university of Illinois in Champaign for two and a half years and then I dropped out and moved. That's when I moved here. Was that dramatic? Um, I did not like college. So what happened? What went wrong? A lot. I just was at the wrong school. I couldn't quite find a major i always thought i was going to be a dancer i started out as a dance major really yeah do you dance yeah i did and then i saw a little with the west side story oh yeah now i just try

to pathetically integrate it into the show but i and i just couldn't fit in i didn't i did not do the sorority thing i mean that's a big 10 school everybody's into the sports and the sororities and fraternities and the partying and the drinking and yeah i just was so unhappy there and it made it even harder that everyone around me was so happy and enjoying it so much and so i just eventually was like i have to quit but you weren't depressed you were just just reasonably unhappy. I don't know. I'm not sure. Were you like, but did you get lumpy and just never get out of bed? I gained a lot of weight.

Really? Yeah. I gained an unrecognizable, Esther, amount of weight. Really? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, I have, like, I love eating. Because I don't do anything else.

Food is, like, my, you know, my fun zone, if you will. So what would you do to be sad? Just sitting in your room, your dorm room eating what? It's such an intimate question. So many things. I don't know.

Pop tarts, cold stone, a lot of desserts. I don't love cold stone. I don't love it now, but it was right around the corner from where I live. Yeah. Because the ice cream itself,

I don't think has much flavor. if you don't mix in and i kind of like straight ice cream sometimes i like one mix in if i'm before talking which one a brownie oh that's pretty good yeah you can't go wrong with like a sweet cream and a brownie that's right it is just basically sweet cream ice cream yeah like i like a peanut butter cup mix in myself what is your plain ice cream that you like that doesn't have a mix in you know i i like a peanut butter cup mix in myself what is your plain ice cream that you like that doesn't have a mix in you know i i grew to uh like vanilla i love vanilla yeah that's always well cookies and cream would and or cookie dough would go above vanilla now but vanilla as a base yeah is everything i don't like the fancy colored and no no no no no you got to work

with a vanilla base or a sweet cream base. Yeah. I grew up when I was younger, I was sort of chocolate driven. But then as I got older, I got more into vanilla. I like the mint cookie. That was pretty good. Like from, was it Ben and Jerry did a mint cookie? Oh my God.

Yeah. Is it? Yeah. It's a mint. I don't, is that the name of it? Something. But it has. Yeah. I know exactly what you're talking about. Mint ice cream with the cookies. Yeah. And that's all that's in it. cookie oh my god yeah the is it yeah it's a mint i don't is that the name of it something but it has yeah i know exactly what you're talking about mint ice cream with the cookies yeah and that's

all that's in it that's pretty great when you when you would find a big piece of cookie i know and just you're digging through looking for it turn it around as as it melts you kind of turn the big ball of it over to find the that's it so like... I'm almost uncomfortable talking about this because I just feel disturbing. No, I have... I'm very compulsive food, but it's very hard for me to manage. Yeah.

But like, thank God, you know, I have my cholesterol got a little out of hand. So, you know, it becomes about life or death and then you're sort of like, all right, no more. I can't pint out. How did you... Well, do you ever buy the pints that are, like the cheating pints where it's only 360 calories for one pint,

Halo Top? It's not good. Yeah, I mean, once or twice. That came later in the game for me. Yeah. You know, like I would like to sit down and do, I've gone through different Ben & Jerry's flavors. I don't like Haagen-Dazs because it's not good on my, it's too rich.

I don't like it. I don't like it. They just don't have fun flavors like the way Ben & Jerry's does. Right, but it's almost too rich. It's almost hard to do a whole pint of Haagen-Dazs, but for some reason, I can do a whole pint of Ben & Jerry's, no problem. I haven't in a while, thank God. I'm clean, but I have done I've

done like one and a half yeah and then when you look at the ingredients and it's just so it's like all just disturbing egg yolks well yeah but that's what makes it good I know but like I used to get a pint of vanilla and then a fancy flavor and so cut it with the vanilla wow I used to do a whole bit about that you got to get the cut. I remember one night one of my friends came over with two pints and I just, I acted as though both were for me. But you know what? But I used to do the thing where I'd like play this game with myself.

I'm just going to eat a little bit and then you put it back. Yeah. Yeah. What other stuff though? Like what did? Um, ice cream is huge. Pop-Tarts is pretty good. I could see Pop-T tarts but like it was not

like i wouldn't think to do it i would i'd be like i'm not doing i can't do pop tarts yeah that was like obviously freshman year of college me i wouldn't do that in this in the last decade right i guess that was in the same decade but or no it wasn't um i like like i like um like almond cake olive oil cake ric ricotta cheese cake. No, that's almost more mature. No, I know, but I can't get that stuff. Yeah. I mean, I'm not getting it, but since I don't eat a lot of desserts now, if it's a fancy dessert, that's where I'll do that shit.

My favorite dessert flavor profile is s'mores. So anything that has those three tastes, I go for. Marshmallow, graham cracker, chocolate. Chocolate. Yeah. Didn't they make a flavor? Ben and Jerry's flavor? S'mores. It has like those three tastes I go for. Marshmallow, graham cracker, chocolate. Didn't they make a flavor? Ben and Jerry's flavor? S'mores.

I think they did. It might have been a chocolate base, which I'm not, I can't do. What would you prefer? Marshmallow base? What base would you use? Vanilla, sweet green. Vanilla with that stuff. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. I mean, Pop-Tarts, yeah, i wouldn't do that nowadays but like in college i would eat a box of pop tarts and take a benadryl like that's to go to sleep yeah that's weird that's why i'm not there anymore you're just you're skirting you're just kind of uh you're kind of circling drugs yeah you're like you're like you're not like how can i do this without doing drugs exactly yeah it's like catholic girls who don't go all the way but they do the other things because i always so you were like you're you're well some catholic girls will do anal sex yeah that's what i was doing i was eating pop tarts and benadryl i'm not doing cocaine or speed

yeah no it's interesting that you get it because I feel like people don't understand. They're like, oh, you just ate everybody. Like this was dark, abusive behavior I was engaging in. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's because I didn't want to drink alcohol for a lot of reasons. But one of them was I always knew the way I treated food and desserts. Like I can't take it to the next level of something even more fun. I'll be all the bad things.

Yeah, exactly. You knew you had the possibility, though. Yeah. Yeah, I definitely understand that. Like, I think about it now. What was I just thinking? Just about that. I don't know how.

I have to stop and look at how fast I'm eating something sometimes. Like, I will just shovel shit. Oh, my God. Just shovel. Wait. I was in New York doing press for the show, and I had finished a big thing that I was happy to have had done, and I went to my hotel room, and I room serviced a pizza, a pasta, a dessert, a bunch of stuff.

Did you have a per diem yeah oh god and i i'm not joking you i was drinking the pizza i was eating it so fast i'm like i'm drinking this there's no other way to explain it and it my stomach was so bad for like a week after it was it was a bad but it was that's all i wanted to do after free food too like buffets and shit i got a real problem with that oh i have a no buffet who are buffets for i don't know it's for people to really hurt themselves or what someone who's gonna go in a manner of the way how do you handle craft services like i like i'm so happy i'm done shooting glow because i couldn't take it anymore and then i would think like no one's gonna eat this how are there still stuff here and then like

they have donuts yeah no I know there's donuts every morning at the shows I work on I it's you have to be black and white for me it's like I just don't touch the table and I bring my own thing and I go do my own thing because once I have a bite of something my mind is like oh my god what's next blah blah oh yeah or half a donut half a donut is so off the limits like that's insane to me if you eat half a donut at work that's crazy what that's like yeah the equivalent of a bump of coke or whatever yeah yeah just just not enough and just to keep circling hoping hoping that the other half got left. It went away. Yeah, you'll be thinking about it and feeling yucky.

All right, so you leave college after two years? Two and a half years, yeah. Halfway through my junior year. And you just decide to go to California? Yeah. That's fucking crazy. What year was that? That was 2009. So, like, I just met you when you just got there, give or take a half a year?

Like, give or take a month. Really? Yeah. Huh. take a half a year like give or take a month really yeah yeah i moved in april and i went the next week i was in at the comedy store and i was there full time but how did you end up how did that all happen like what was so you leave college and you're like i'm going to the comedy store no so i leave college and i'm out with like the first week i was here i was out at a bar luna park bar which i don't think is there anymore.

It was like La Brea and Wilshire, where I was living. And I was with a friend of mine. I had one friend out here. And we were just kind of laughing, having fun. And I don't even remember what it was, but I was making fun of him. And the bar owner was like, you're so funny. Which no one has said that to me since this. But you're so funny.

You should do stand-up. I'm like, i i tried to stand up in college like yeah i should that's what i want to do and i'm like but i don't know how where and she's like the comedy store and then that was it wow it's like call the comedy store drop off a resume how do i get a job here i remember being on the front patio and i'm like who do i talk to about getting a job here i can't get in touch with anyone like no one's responding to me. And then someone goes, well, Pauly Shore owns it. And I'm like, okay, who's that? And he's like, they're like,

cause I didn't know who he was. They're like, oh, that's him over there. And so I walk up to him and I'm like, hi, I'm trying to get a job as like a waitress. And he just like, he grabs my arm and he's like, look at you, you're like a little doll. And he walks me over to Tommy and he's just like, look at this little doll. And then he me over to Tommy and he's just like, look at this little doll.

And then he walks away. And then that was it. I never got hired, but I think Tommy says that that was Pauly like through Mitzi showing him that like we should pay attention to this person. Oh, really? Yeah. So Tommy like tripped out on you. Yeah. Oh, wow.

Which is very strange. That's good, man. That's a nice, mystical, very connected comedy store experience. Yeah. I did really, they didn't hire women to do anything other than waitress at that time. And I wasn't qualified enough to be a waitress. But you knew you were home? Yeah.

I was just a hanger on her. And I was, yeah. And you would just show up. Yeah. I mean, I would do open mics every day. You did an open mic in college, yeah? I did two open mics in college, yeah. But then when I got to LA, I would do the store, obviously, Sunday, Monday.

It used to be Sunday and Monday. And then I would do open mics wherever I could go. And then at the end of my open mics, I would go to the store every night. And I'd sit in the back in the bucket seats and watch the show and then talk to people. And you're like a like a hardcore store. I know. Hardcore store person. Isn't that like gross?

No, it's no, because it's not going to always be. They're not going to be anymore. It's not always going to be this way. It's over in a way. It is. I agree because it's the doors are to be this way. It's over in a way. It is. I agree because the doors are locked. But yeah, also when I moved to LA, you couldn't develop anywhere. No one was developing young comedians.

It wasn't happening at the Improv or the Factory or anywhere. No one cared. They were just sort of doing produce shows. Yeah, but the store was still kind of doing that. But mind you, it wasn't cool to be at a comedy club. And I don't know if it is now. It kind of is now. Yeah, that's a nice turn.

Because then you wanted to be on the east side. Like you said, do UCB. You wanted to be at the cool. It's so funny because I told you that. And I was like, I'm a store person through my soul. And I was trying at that time. I was just doing those other rooms to make sure that i was you know relevant in that world and now like i don't like because i you know

i just thought that was what needed to be done at that time but i was always a club comic so now like i don't do any of those rooms i only do the store i kind of am there too i only do the store you know i think that my advice to you was sort of like, it wasn't that I misread you. It was just sort of like I had been eaten up by the store. I just was trying to, because the place eats people. I cannot tell you how much your advice made perfect sense. It was the perfect right advice.

But you found your way. I did. But still, like when you just are looking at the situation and you see a 21 year old girl who's like just smiling like send her away from the store if i saw that i would give the same advice to this day i would say get out of here yeah go to ucb i mean but now like i don't even know what's going on at ucb and like that's a whole other world the thing is is it's like you know i still think in some weird way that you you know, to be, you know, like a stand up, like to really do it. You know, the store is where you do it.

Yeah. But also that's such a hard system to get into. But yeah. Yeah. Now. Yeah. I love. Well, that's like we said, it's very good.

Now there's crowds. So. All right. So. So you come out here and now you're hanging around the store with the freaks. But that was the charm of that place. It was always sort of like, it always attracted just broken people of all different kinds. You know, some criminal, some just, you know, weird.

But it's sort of back. There's sort of an electricity there. But they don't let a lot of freaks hang out too much, but there's still a lot of weirdness. You think? Yeah. I'm not there as much, so I don't know. When I work, if I stay around,

just like when you get that many people hovering in this sort of mythology of the place, and I started talking about it constantly, and a lot of us started talking about it in a very proactive way, and it's just all of a sudden people are like, it's like the real deal. That's crazy. Because that's just all of a sudden people are like, this is, it's like the real deal. That's crazy.

That just, that, cause that's how I felt when I was there. This is the real deal. But the outside world was like, no, this is nothing. No, it's a haunted house. You're performing for Australian tourists who are jet lagged, who don't care. And otherwise there's nobody there.

It was just so awful when it got there. Yeah, the industry turned on it. Yeah, why? Because it got weird and gross. Right. Yeah, no one from the industry wanted to be there. It was awful. Never.

Yeah, I remember hearing that. It's like if you need to be seen by someone, you do it at the improv. But that was the great thing is that like when the lunatics run the asylum, you could work without being seen. You needed a place to work yeah you know when i got there in the 2000s wherever i came like it's like it was pretty beat up it was just starting to turn but you could still do your shit anonymously the craziest thing too is that the what it's the thing that's written on the below the cover booth like just be yourself we trust like that is so such a great i don't know guidance is it i never even noticed that yeah it's i don't know the exact quote but it's something

about like don't try to be funny just be yourself and that really led me to yeah it's right under the or cover booth yeah maybe it's gone now but it was there for many years i don't know i never noticed it yeah i wonder if it's there i hope it's there i hope it's there now, but it was there for many years. I don't know. I never noticed it. Yeah. I wonder if it's there. I hope it's there. I hope it's there now. Because that was like, you were reading all the signs and symbols. Like there was part of me that had to, you know, compartmentalize that stuff, you know,

because when I was at the store and I was out of my mind on Coke and I was sort of like mentally unstable, you know, it really broke into a quite a large, you know, system of signs and meanings. Like, you know, I was out there. So like, you know, being at the store was like the center of the universe. And there was a constant battle between good and evil going on there in my mind. And like, it was really like, so it was like the imprinting of that place from a cocaine psychotic mind oh my god it took it took so long to shake it it took so long for me to be able to go to the store and not feel the thing you know like oh the energy's still here kind of shit so so like i kind of got rid of that

and then i kind of appreciated on the nuts nuts and bolts level. But that energy goes all the way back to the Ciro's. So you can play that game, right? What I'm thinking about. Yeah, the force, whatever it is. Hollywood, the force, the comedy store. What happened here? Who is Mitzi? I haven't heard Ciro's thrown around in a while. That does bring me back to like the stories about the illegal abortions performed below the main room.

Oh, yeah. The ghosts. Yeah. Yeah. Now there's a podcast studio. Oh, that's so crazy. Downstairs in the basement. I don't know what's under the main room.

Yeah. I've never had a ghost experience there, I don't think. No, I didn't either. But like, you know, I have to be careful like not to drift you know like there was a lot of mystics around you know uh earlier on you know from after the 70s you know after lebitkin jumped off the fucking building this shit just broke open and you know it became like this uh this kind of drain for like you know mysticism and weirdness revolving around that place yeah i i there's something about that i'm very drawn to oh yeah it's so exciting right there's that and now it's just sort of like the authenticity of the place you know just on a surface level

is very compelling you know it's it's cool to sit in those rooms because they are relatively unchanged what yeah what else is the same as it was 50 years ago? Nothing, that's what I mean, is that it's a real deal place and real deal comics work there and a lot of guys who haven't worked there in forever and women come back. They're back, they're kind of like,

they ran away from that place and now they're kind of back. Man, that makes me scared because there are always people talking about how like, oh, this is gonna get sold and become a parking lot. That's not happening. Yeah, okay. Not anytime soon. Okay, that makes me scared that because there are always people talking about how like, oh, this is going to get sold and become a parking lot. That's not happening. Yeah. Not anytime soon. Okay, that's good. I mean, that was the fear. I don't think that's

happening. I don't want to get into shore family business. Right. You probably know much more than I do. I don't know. I don't I try and, you know, I don't get in the middle of that shit. So, all right. So, did you go to Polly's birthday last night? No. How was it? Did you go? I was doing spots. I kind of dropped by. It was all right. There's a you go to Polly's birthday last night? No. How was it? Did you go? I was doing spots.

I kind of dropped by. It was all right. There's a lot of old timers there. That's like the kind of thing that I would stay away from because I still feel like it's a toxic relationship with the store. Yeah. And there's certain people I don't want to go back and be around and be reminded how I feel around them and the people that would show up to that, I don't want to go back and be around and be reminded how I feel around them.

And the people that would show up to that, I'm saying. You just don't know what you're getting. And so for me right now, I love this store, but I have a very adult relationship with it. I show up for my set. And if there's a few friends there, I hang, but I leave. Because I don't, like you said, it's like you go there and you feel all the things that you once felt and i'm like i don't want to feel those things i want to just yeah i used to say like going back there to work was like you know going to visit the the the place the person i'm that molested me yeah i don't remember how i put it i put it better

but it seems like over the years like you know you've sort of you know gotten acting gigs and you've been able to do your stand-up on tv shows and you've worked a lot yeah I've been trying and you got a recurring on the which show crazy ex-girlfriend that's big yeah I love that show yeah it's cool yeah you got to do stand-up on did you do stand-up on uh seth's show i i know i just went on seth's to promote alone together that was so you did panel yeah did bits yeah i did yeah i have how'd they go i have a surveillance camera in my family's living room and so i showed pictures from that and i think that was fun i think people liked it you do yeah what do they know it yeah it was started out to so i could see the dogs sleeping at night and then it just like became a way to make fun of my family and you were on you were on maria's show for an

episode oh yeah maria's like why i started doing stand-up really yeah i would never do the comedy story no no but i mean because because I went. Maybe she would. I don't know if she's ever been in it. My high school went to the Fringe Festival in Edinburgh, and I'd never seen stand-up live before. And one of my friends was like, oh, this person's really funny. Let's go. I'm like, sure.

And it was Maria. And I mean, changed me forever. Was the funniest. Talk about looking for someone who could have a strong. Oh, yeah. She's the best yeah it's like a savant i was like i don't know what this is but i i want this this is good she's great yeah so that really so you had your mind-blown experience the mind-blowing experience the

cathartic you know revelation was it with bamford in in scot. Huh. Yeah. That makes sense. I guess so, yeah. I mean, yeah. Did you tell her that? I did. Yeah, I did. And she went, oh, okay. Yeah, she's so awesome. She's, yeah, I mean, you know, she's the nicest, funniest person there ever was.

What'd you do on her show? I played a teenager who was asking her for comedy advice because our moms are friends and basically end up telling her like that she's not funny and that I'm really funny and my friends think at school think I'm funny. It's kind of crazy. I gotta watch this show. It's so good. I gotta make time to watch it. Her show's worth it. Oh yeah. I i love her so much i think i watched one episode but like i can't i just gotta lock in and you weird are you doing a podcast yeah i now have so i didn't i had my podcast which you did which was really fun and what was it called again weird adults yeah right and then now i'm doing like a female like we talk about makeup diet exercise

beauty self-care called glowing up that i co-host with one of the writers on my show, Caroline Goldfarb. Yeah? Mm-hmm. And it's real? What do you mean? It's a real advice show or a struggle show? Yeah, like we talk about. The struggle?

It's very, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Why do I have to do this? Why am I not that? Why am I still trying to be that? Yeah. And what happened? Did you do one with Brody?

Brody and I had a podcast way back in the day with Red Band. We had a podcast called Brodeness that we did right after his big breakdown. He kind of needed some. How was that? That was, it was fun. It was like, you know. What was your relationship with that whole crew? Like, how did you end up with the, in the, what is it called?

The, what's their, what's Red Band's? Death Squad. Death Squad, yeah. How'd you end up with the, in the Rogue and Red Band matrix? I was dating Red Band for a little while after Tony and I broke up. Yeah. And then we started hanging out. And then we broke up.

We were not together for very long. And then after we broke up, the Brody and Esther thing happened. But you were doing Joe's show? Like Joe had you on a few times? Yeah, I went with Joe. I went to Austin with him and did a couple of things like that. What, stand up? Yeah.

And that was good? It was good, yeah. He was a really great dude. Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about, before we wrap it up, how did this show get made? So people who have hopes and dreams,

help some little girls get their shows made. Oh, I'd love to do that. So my best friend and I, we just decided we were at the premiere party of Brody Stevens' Comedy Central show, and someone came up to us um brody stevens yeah he had a comedy central show that zach galifianak has produced when was that when was that like six years ago something oh right brody okay yeah yeah yeah yeah um and someone

came up to us and they were just like you guys are so weird like you two or something you and benji yeah because people would always comment on us why aren't you dating what you know he's your best friend yeah yeah and we that night we just we like okay we're gonna make something we gotta just make his last name is aflalo aflalo aflalo yeah benji aflalo i've watched him do stand-up a few times he's funny yeah yeah and he also has the darkness inside of him. For sure. And then we decided to make a short film, and that took fucking forever to figure out

because we were just two stand-up comics with no idea. And eventually we figured it out. And so we shot that, and then we cut it down to a little two-minute version and sent it around and then got a meeting at Lonely Island's company and then they decided they'd want to make it with us. So then from there we pitched it. Oh, okay. With them behind you. Yeah. You pitched it with them. Yes. At network. Yes. Oh, that's good. Yeah. You kind of need someone to vouch for you, I think. Well, it definitely makes it, you know, you can get into rooms. Yeah. Did Andy have anything to

do with it? Did you meet with him? We've met with him a few times. Andy Samberg? Yeah, but he, you know,

they weren't, they're good producers in the sense that they let us do what we wanted to do. Yeah, it looks like it. Yeah.

It's good. Yeah. And who's writing on it? It's me, Benji. Our co-creator is this guy, Eben Russell.

And we have this woman, Amy Hubs, Caroline Goldfarb, Shelley Gossman, Alex Blagg. Those are our writers this year. Not comics? Who's a comic in there? No, no comics in there this year. No. A lot of women? Yeah, a lot of women.

Yeah. Yeah. Are you still doing your show? No. No, because you're on GLOW. I'm on GLOW. A lot of women. Yeah. Just me and a lot of women that's so do you feel like at home like that's how it's supposed to be for you because you have a very like feminine do i energy i mean the way you talk

about food is makes me feel safe well that well that's well that's the weird balance with me you know i have some there's part of me that you know, through defensiveness and hypersensitivity has gotten kind of callous. And there's a type of manliness that I can manifest, you know, that I think I used to protect myself for years. But I think the core is a little more. Yeah. Yeah. I used to do a joke about that, about having an inner girl. Her name's Jill and she has an eating disorder.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm aware of all that yeah yeah that makes sense but i do like the other thing's pretty real too you know that's the weird thing about me is that whatever sort of alpha component i have whatever sort of assholeness i have is pretty toxic and pretty male but like i think at the you know the the other one's winning now so oh that's good why do you think that is? How did that happen? Because you have to, after a certain point,

I think what you're trying to do is be true to yourself and be comfortable with yourself. So bringing those things together or allowing that stuff to live as opposed to stuff that stuff down. That process, when you don't have good parents, takes forever. stuff down uh however that process you know when you don't have good parents takes forever so you know you're sort of finding yourself um you're comfortable with yourself much later you know if you're lucky and i have to i do have to battle the defensive part of me yeah i do too you do yeah yeah is this resonating with you it. Because I also feel like I have that toxic male side of me, but it's not really that.

My version of that, which is like defensive and, you know, yeah, defensive is probably the biggest. And mean. And yeah. With me, like if I get defensive, I'll be preemptively hostile and hurtful. Yeah. You know what is the. Bullying.

The most specific example of this i have is that because when you move to la you're like you know you're you're in show business and you're just i don't know i i wasn't really the person i was growing up because now i was just like having fun trying to make it right and so i i did last comic standing and one of the judges was norm mcdonald and he said something kind of mean to me. Yeah. And I wasn't expecting that because the producers were like, they're going to be nice. They're like, this is not like American Idol.

This is, you know. Yeah. Which I guess that's what they told us, but they told the judges something different. Because now Norm and I have talked about it and he's like, yeah. And he said something mean to me and. What? I don't even remember. It was not even that big of a deal but he just said something that caught me off guard and then like the real unplanned person inside of me came out and i like went off on him and was so like on camera yeah i went off on him and it was it never aired but and then i was like oh yeah

that's a person inside of me i forgot about and i think that was i just remembered that like if my uncle said something that pissed me off like that's how i would react and that's just what happened and came up and i hadn't seen that person and since i had moved out here and so yeah i guess i'm yeah there's someone in me that wants to be like don't you fucking talk to me like that right at all times yeah yeah and well that well that's normal when you like if like however you are emotionally diminished by selfish parents right if you have to do your growing up sort of on your own put yourself together right like the only real defining part of your personality when you're that vulnerable is fuck you.

Yeah. That's what's going to protect you until you get it together. Yeah. That makes me feel so much better that you can kind of explain it. Because I am like, why am I so ready to just don't talk? Like, why am I ready to defend? Because we weren't given any, you know uh we weren't grounded properly like what's yeah what's the normal reaction just to be to be quiet and think about it no no i don't

know if it's to be quiet but i hear what you're saying like is that right no but i'm just saying that like you know it's a sensitivity you know that you know if you know if you weren't properly capped uh emotionally as a child you know you sort of still have very childish emotions so you're going to respond like that no you are right because like you you no one you know no one gave you the the the emotional cocoon to develop a sense of self that was based in confidence or self-esteem so you're still kind of like there's still that flailing you know five-year-old but now you know i'm 54 it's very unattractive you know what what five-year-old emotions coming to a 54 year old's brain can do that's so funny wow that's so funny

right yeah no that's right that That's embarrassing. I'm embarrassed. Oh, I know. I feel that too. And it's weird because I feel a little bit coming out lately, you know, because things are going good and everything's all right. But like, you know, now I've got time off and I'm working on a new standup and I'm just saying shit about people. I'm like, what are you doing, dude?

You don't need to slag anybody. Do you mean like on air? No, no. Just like in conversations, you know you know like fuck that guy but you know and that's one of the things you learn you know as time goes on that that stuff doesn't play you know because there's like there's just dozens of people that hear you say fuck that guy and they want to be like you know marin you know so like you know it's just there's a fucking wildfire to it. But I'm projecting a little bit. But I have to be very aware.

There's no reason for me to be bitter. And there's no reason for me to be shitty about other people. So like, but it is sort of an old habit. You're so right. Yeah. Because I'm like, why I'm bitter about something right now. And I'm like, how can I be bitter? Like, I've I moved here with nothing and

even if this is as far as i go having two seasons of a show that i created and star in like i should i should be so happy there should be not one sense of bitterness or unhappiness right but why is there one thing that's like fuck that like i'm so like you're wrong well that's it yeah well that's the shit you gotta keep to yourself yeah i which i do that shit i sure do oh good good i'm my therapist keep that up good talking to you congratulations on all your success esther same thanks so much mark okay that's our show i i loved catching up with her. I love her. She's great. I'll play, I'll play, I'll play, I'll play.

I'll play three chords. I'll probably repeat myself. We'll see where it goes. But I liked it. I like playing. I need to change the strings on my Stratocaster, I know. I know. Thank you. Boomer Lives! You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats.

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