WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 891 - ​Heather Graham / Sebastian Maniscalco

Episode Date: February 18, 2018

Heather Graham had stories she wanted to see made and roles she wanted to play, so she took them into her own hands. As she releases her directorial debut, Half Magic, which she also wrote, Heather talks with Marc about David Lynch, meditation, Drugstore Cowboy, Boogie Nights, and the relevance of her new movie as Hollywood reckons with industry-wide abuse allegations. Also, comedian Sebastian Maniscalco returns to talk about his new book and the success he's achieved since his last appearance in the garage six years ago. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking

ears what the fuck nicks What the fuckadelics? How's it going? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome to it. Happy Monday to you. It's been quite a rough ride for the country over the last few days. A lot of pain and chaos and horror. Here's the deal. I'm recording this a bit early because um because somebody somebody needs to take a break not me i'm just gonna plow ahead uh but uh my uh business partner and producer brendan mcdonald will be on vacation and we wanted to get these in the can so if i'm taping this before the weekend, so if anything happens over the weekend, if there's a, you know, if, if, if Washington DC is consumed in flames.

Or if, if California falls off of the, the map into the ocean, if whatever happens, if I'm not talking about about it it's because it hadn't happened yet and i can only hope that none of that happens today on the show i talked to heather graham and uh and that was uh interesting i who doesn't love heather graham from drugstore cowboy right she don't put the hat on the bed man don't put the hat on the bed, man. Don't put the hat on the bed. Boogie Nights, Six Degrees of Separation. She was in The Hangover recently, TV shows. It was nice to talk to her. It was nice to see her.

She has a new movie out that she wrote and directed. It's called Half Magic. She started it as well. It'll be in theaters and VOD and Digital HD this Friday, February 23rd. I talked to her. And then in a few minutes, I'm going to have Sebastian Montescalco come out here. What do you mean come out here? Like I'm on stage?

I talked to Sebastian because he's got a book coming out. And I love Sebastian. He's a comic. I see him. I saw him the other night at the comedy store. Worked hard. Got to get to where he is, and he's a unique stage being, that Sebastian. Unique and funny.

So I always like people come back, they stop by, they got something they want to talk about, something they want to plug, if they've been on the show before, if they're a friend of mine, have them on, right? Have them on, mix it up, and now it's good because, like i said we're getting these in the can a little early it's nice to have a nice full show i'm not i'm

not leaning on that i'll read an email or two i can give you some updates about things uh how are the cats enjoying the new house they're they're fine uh that buster kitten is a crazy motherfucker he figured out how to remove the toilet paper roll from the toilet paper rod and run around the house with it, basically papering the house and destroying it, shredding it. So he's learning new things. He might be part monkey because he's just always lacking as a thumb, but he seems to be able to figure shit out and move stuff around.

He's an odd cat. I've never had a cat that likes to be roughed up like out and move stuff around he's an odd cat i've never had a cat that likes to be roughed up like this cat and i'm not being abusive it's just that when you pull a wild cat out of the wild and because they showed up on your deck on your porch you don't know how they're going to turn out or what can what they're going to be i trapped the old cats the old guys are okay but they're still a little they're still skittish and they're weird you can't hold them is that my fault maybe it is my fault because i didn't i didn't try to do when they were younger because they were out of their fucking minds but buster was young enough and a

little tame enough so i was able to hold him but he doesn't seem to like to be pet he doesn't know how to approach people uh or me specifically for affection and then uh when when you do get him to take it he likes to be scratched almost like a dog like you know you scratch him hard on the stomach on the back on the head and then he purrs and he gets into it it's almost like you have to you know show such intense aggressive affection for him to just settle down and take it and you know what that makes that cat a lot like me see i i never believed that shit i thought you got these cats and they were genetically wired a certain way and i know you have an influence on them but all my cats have elements of me uh they the three represent me at different uh different

emotional places and physical uh reactions so seb Menescalco is here. And his new book, Stay Hungry, comes out on February 27th. You can pre-order it now. If you want to hear the full conversation I did with Sebastian back on episode 304, you can hear that on Stitcher Premium and on Howl. This is me and Sebastian. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer.

where I talked to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th

at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. RonaldRock.com. How long? I mean, it's been a long time since I talked to you in here. Yeah, it's been six years ago I was here. So, like, because that's what's wild about it is that you didn't have nothing going. How'd I get on? The show back. I liked just forgot i was interviewing comics you know guys from the store and stuff oh man but the reason i think i

interviewed you is interesting was because i didn't really know you and the first time like you know it you know i'd see you at the store occasionally but then i saw you working over at that hotel serving like you were uh waiting tables yeah four seasons at the four seasons because i had a meeting over there and i was like that's a dude he's fucking working his ass off and you know this is like the shitty day gig yeah and now like you know you're one of the biggest comics in the country selling out everywhere and you got a book about how to make it. So it's credible. That's what I'm saying.

They're like, I can track it. When I first had you on, you didn't have much going on and I saw you working, waiting tables at a hotel and now there's a book. There's a book, Stay Hungry. Stay Hungry, yeah. Yeah, that's been my moniker the whole time I've been out here. Just stay hungry for more.

Right, but it's just sort of interesting that, you know, you always kind of just did your own thing, right? I mean, because I remember seeing you. Like, I could tell, like, you know, who your influences were and, like, you know, where you were coming from. But, you know, then it just got stronger and stronger. The edge got more, and then you weren't like other people. You know, it just, like, I saw a a lot of the evolution and then it just caught on.

When did you start to see the uptick? I saw the uptick when I did a special called What's Wrong With People? And I put a little small part in there about being Italian and going to Italian weddings. Yeah. I was really cautious of whether to leave that in there or not because I wasn't, I didn't know if anybody was going to get it. It was very specific to the Italian community. Right.

But I noticed that a lot of people connected with that and I'm like, oh, okay, people are gravitating towards my humor in a way where it's, they're relating to family. Yeah. Not necessarily broad observational type humor. Right. Like I went to Ross Dress for Less or I went to Chipotle. Yeah.

They're relating to my father, my upbringing, the culture. And I'm like, why don't I just talk about my upbringing and how nuts my father was. For the next special. Yeah. And I put a lot of family stuff in there. In the second special. In the third special, Aren't You Embarrassed,

I started talking about my dad a little bit more. Uh-huh. And I noticed that I was having more fun on stage doing that, and it was very personal to me. Sure. It was real. Yeah. The more personal I got,

although it's not like I wasn't personal before, it was just more like, hey, you ever go to da-da-da? Yeah. Yeah. This was more like, you know, I went home and my father. Right. And then it started getting more like enjoyable to do stand up for me. Not that I wasn't enjoying it before, but it was just like, what else is my father? What else could I go back and talk about upbringing, even grandparents, mother? Right, right. The writing's different because you're not just sitting there wherever you write, looking at people walking by like, oh, shoes are funny. Yeah. You can go back and you have an emotional connection to it. Yeah.

Is he still alive? Yeah. He's still alive and there's still material to be mined there. And it's not going to stop for a while. God willing, it doesn't stop for a while. How does he take it? Because usually my stuff that I do about my dad is never, I never really put him in a great light.

So I hope that your relationship with your dad is better, because my dad gets mad at me sometimes when I talk about him. My father is, God, you know, he loves being in the show. Right. Of course. But he's always concerned about me writing new material,

about me not resting on my success. You always have to. He's pushing you? Yeah, there's always that voice in the back of my head going, you know, don't give these people new material you know because a lot of comics kind of get into that rut of uh doing the same stuff over and over

and you know i mean you know as well as i do that you know it's it's difficult to come up with those new bits and i'm in it right now like i just i dumped a special lesson a year ago and i got to go do some dates and i'm like fuck you know you know what i mean it's like right now i'm sitting on about 25 new minutes i think and uh you know i got about half hour somewhere that i didn't use in the special like i go find that you know so so do you completely abandon special material i mean it just happens naturally it's weird because i could have toured on it a little more i think and it was really a good one i mean mean, that last one, Too Real on Netflix was my best work. But I've been doing a special every year, pretty much.

I did one for Epix and then one for Netflix before that. And then I had one other one, then a half hour one. And CDs, too, or whatever. But people don't listen. That stuff shows up on Sirius. But you've got better odds doing material that you did on old CDs. If you want to do that, then you do it with specials. Because everyone watches the specials.

But no one listens to fucking CDs, really. But yeah, it just happens naturally. It's like after the special airs, my brain just is kind of done with it. I don't even know how it goes together anymore. And I was working the fuck out of it. Why? How about you? I'll pop in a few other bits from a special that I'd like to do.

Oh, in the new one. Yeah. Like if a special airs, I can't completely abandon that material in that special. I'll pepper it in. Because of you or because you just don't have the new time yet? Because like you like doing them or you're waiting for the new shit? Waiting for the new shit to develop. Yeah.

So I got to do some older stuff. Yeah. And they don't mind? You don't know? I think they're okay with it. I don't want to go to a city, right? This is my biggest fear as a comedian. I don't want to do Chicago.

Right. And then come back in a year yeah and people spend hard-earned money right they go same thing as before yeah that's my biggest fear as a comedian you can't do it you can't do it now like back you can't you know because that it's my fear too you don't want to get off stage and they're like yeah i heard that one it's like the too. You don't want to get off stage and they're like, yeah, I heard that one. It's like, the fuck? What about the other?

I mean, that's really what you're saying. So, so even, even if you, you're putting in a few bits, you're going to run into the possibility of one douchebag

going like, boy, you couldn't, couldn't write the whole new hour, huh? And if you're like me, if you're like, I think most comedians,

that's all you're going to hear. That's all that's gonna be in your head no matter how good the show went no matter how many people said I love seeing that bit I saw it on TV

but I like seeing it in person you're like that motherfucker yeah the one guy yeah the one guy it's the worst no but you can't like I think back in the day

you know they it wasn't as a you know everyone didn't see everything so immediately you know and the guy't as uh you know everyone didn't see everything so immediately you know and the guy who tours on the same hour for a decade just they can't exist anymore yeah but they did for years kind of but people get tired of it well uh you've been doing this longer than yeah right so were you able to get away with that say when you first started uh you know going to st louis and well here's the thing with me is that no one knew who the fuck i was so like anytime i thought people knew my shit like i get to it got

to a point where i'm like what people am i talking about do you know what i mean it's like i wasn't selling tickets so like if i go into a place and i didn't have a you know i didn't build my career properly i would you know i never stayed on the road long enough because i'd alienate people and i go do a you a TV thing or whatever. But it wasn't until a couple of years into this that I started to pull people. But I always thought that everyone knew my shit. And they just don't. But now they do because Netflix is fucking everywhere.

It's like you go to a show. I'm going to go do five shows in Europe. Yeah. You know, it's like, it's going to be, you go do a show, like I'm going to go do five shows in Europe. It's going to be like, I would say that probably 75, 80% of every room that I play to will have seen my last special. Why wouldn't they have? Yeah.

But don't you think people are in the room that maybe has never seen you before? Like they're bringing people. I know, but that one guy, that one guy, Sebastian. Is that why we're doing this? For the one guy? To please the one guy. one guy sebastian is that why we're doing this for the one guy to please the one guy and it's us and we can never quite do it oh god you make up these people in your head right oh yeah all the time all the time like even when i'm on stage going man like i didn't get a good reaction on that has everybody heard that you know like i it's right right see that's the that is that's the only problem with doing the old bits is that and then that's what i'm up against too

because they probably it's probably not the reason but just by nature you're already thinking that going in yeah you know that this bit is you know you know the bit was on tv so there's party that's going like all right uh you probably of you have probably seen this. You're saying that's the undertone that you have. I think so. So you cannot commit to an old bit like it's the first time you're saying it because you're in your head thinking. Just a bit that's been on TV already. What, do you?

Can you? I have done it that way. Yeah. And I have done it the other way where I'm like fuck it I'm going to do it and the reaction is a lot better when I say fuck it I'm just going to go and do it rather than not edit myself well yeah so it's just a mental discipline

yeah this is what I've learned in comedy I've been working now with 19 years and it's been solid it's all I think about is stand up and go out and gig and this and that but last year i wore myself down at a bone oh yeah i said this year you know what it's about balance it's about enjoying life a little bit more sure rather than come home unpack get back out there keep the

grind going yeah uh i want to live life a little bit more and you got a kid now and i got a kid now and that kind of changes a lot of things and yeah you want to participate in in the upbringing of the child rather than yeah and it timed out for you it seemed like the arc of uh your popularity enables you to not you know make yourself so fucking crazy yeah yeah i mean that's the point now where i could you know like let's take the summer off and we got three weddings to go to uh i don't want my wife going to these weddings anymore like i passed away you know like she's got to show up alone so uh i want to go with her to these yeah yeah and as as you do that too you mine material out of those life

experiences of course so like how long did it take you to write the book three years uh i started uh writing the book with a writer yeah who's helping me out and then um and a guy who you that you knew or they set you up with a guy that i interviewed and and and like the publisher said we got a guy yeah you go out and interview these writers sure like a tv deal yeah yeah and then uh we didn't really get along creatively no bad blood it was just one of those things that came to a wall. And then I had to go find another writer. So that's why it kind of took a while. And listen, man, when I first started writing this book, I didn't think I have a book.

I say in the book that I'm not a politician or I'm not a sports figure. I didn't get beaten as a kid and come through this. I didn't think I had a story to tell. Right. But I did after 20 years of being in this and having these experiences happen to me. I formulated a nice little book kind of about the last 20 years of my life. And I'm proud of it it's just everything from the jobs i had to take uh the doing uh you know selling satellite dishes in the ghetto at uh crenshaw and martin luther king

boulevard that was before or after the four seasons that was during so i worked for four seasons 1998 to 2005 and then i had to get a uh job in between there because i hated waiting on people i was getting sick of it so i started I started working at a kiosk selling dish network satellite dishes in a mall, in an urban mall. Yeah. And I went into debt. But that was the choice? Like, you know, I mean, like there wasn't another job.

You're a smart guy. I needed flexibility. Okay. I disallow needed flexibility. Okay. I disallowed flexibility. Yeah. And when you hear that if you sell a satellite dish. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. You get a hundred bucks per dish. I'm thinking, how hard is it to sell TV subscriptions? Basically, everybody needs cable or whatever. I'm thinking five, six a day, 600 a day, five days a week. That's three grand. That's 180 grand a year. I'm in.

I'm in. And I was in a struggle, man. No, I wasn't selling at all. What I used to do is there was a TV in the kiosk. So I used to record programs that might attract people to my kiosk. So I used to record programs that might attract people to my kiosk. In the urban mall. In the urban mall.

Yeah. So I recorded this Michael Jackson Motown special and I played that on a loop. So I had about 85 people dancing, doing the moonwalk around my kiosk, but nobody buying the damn satellite dish. It was like a dance party in the middle of the mall. So I did that for six to eight months, and I went into debt.

$10,000 I owed. And I was on the phone with my father and mother at one point, and they detected that there was some problems. They hear it right away, don't they? Right away. Yeah. Hi. Oh, God. What is it right away, don't they? Right away. Yeah, yeah. Hi. Oh, God.

What is it, money? My dad jumped on the phone. He's like, what's the problem? I said, Dad, I'm in 10 grand in debt, and he bailed me out. He paid my credit card bill, and I paid him back every cent. I would call him, and I would go, how much do I owe you? And you would just hear like papers. And he goes, I got it right here.

You owe me $7,890. He added to the cent how much. Was there a vig on it? No, no, no vig. No vig. It was just a straight loan. But I paid him back. And I'm glad that I paid them back because it taught me that,

you know, nothing in life you kind of escape out of. Yeah, and also, it's nice to be able to, to pay your parents back. Yeah. Because, like, usually, like, if you really wanted to, you could probably get off. Right? Yeah. But there's something about, you know, like, just take it. Like, I try to give, my mom floated me some money when I was going through a divorce.

She wouldn't take it back. She said, you're going to get it anyway. Oh, no, no. Well, no, your mom's a lot different. My dad's like, you need to pay me back. Because you might not get it. I need it. Right, right.

I don't know if mine's going to hold up. Right, yeah. And what other stories you got in there? Like, just stuff about shit gigs and all that kind of stuff? You know, like, what I had to do. There's a chapter about me working, doing these odd jobs. Even before I came out here, I was Captain Morgan. On TV?

No, no. I used to go to bars dressed up as Captain Morgan. It amazes me to hear these stories. Like there's a certain type of personality. Like I knew. You would never do this? I would never think to do it. Like, no matter how bad it got.

Yeah. I don't know if I'd think to do it. Like, you know, like Big Jay, Ogerson. He was like a ghetto Elmo. Like, he was. He was. He was Elmo, but it was not real Elmo. Like, I mean, I just, there are guys.

There must have been some party that thought it was going to be a performance. It was good money. Yeah. And again, flexibility. And they didn't really know who you were. Couldn't see you wearing a mustache. Yeah.

Mustache, hat. I had a parrot on my shoulder. A real parrot. No, fake. I had a hook. And I used to go into these bars. And these were kind of seedy bars, too. Back in Chicago, before I came out here.

I was doing these odd jobs. Worked at Honey Bake Ham, Glazing Ham. Oh, yeah. Doing temp work. I graduated college at 24 with a Bachelor of Science degree in Corporate Communications, and I ended up working at United Airlines Employees Credit Union as a temporary employee because I didn't get a job out of college. Right.

I was the guy that went to the work fair in like a wedding suit. You know, a silver wedding suit walking around. It looked like I was collecting money rather than handing out resumes. So nobody called. And I ended up coming home and working at night at a place called The Living Room in Schaumburg Waiting Tables. Schaumburg. Yeah. Schaumburg.

It was an improv. Yeah. Right there. It was an unbelievable fine dining place. It was the place to be in Chicago in 1994, 95, 96. And I worked there up in the restaurant. And then during the day, I would work at the Employees Credit Union in the back in the data entry department.

Of United. Of United Airlines Employees Credit Union. the back in the data entry department. Of United. Of United Airlines Employees Credit Union. And you're like, I got to get an outfit. I got to be Captain Morgan. I got to get out of here. I need a ship. I got to get out of here on a pirate ship. Wow, man.

Oh, yeah. So you didn't come out here until your mid-20s? Late 20s? Well, I was 24. Then you hit the wall with Captain Morgan, huh? After Captain Morgan, I said, I got to leave town. Yeah. mid-20s late 20s well i was 24 i was uh you hit the wall with captain morgan after captain morgan i said i gotta leave i gotta leave town yeah so 1998 i came out here and uh i moved to the st james apartments on hollywood and fuller right down the street from running canyon

yeah yeah yeah and i came out here with 10 grand in my pocket and i decided that i was going to wait and get a really nice waiting table job i didn didn't want to work at Mel's Diner. I didn't want to work at any of those kind of whatever. You come home with $53. I wanted to work. Dirty apron. Dirty apron. Yeah.

So it took me six, seven weeks to get a job out here in LA, and I kind of ran out of money. I actually had some grand scheme that I was going to go to Las Vegas because I still had the United Airlines benefits. of money i uh i actually had some grand scheme that i was going to go to las vegas because i still had the united airlines benefits yeah so i would take a little jaunt to las vegas see if i could gamble and make some money yeah playing blackjack hoping uh hoping were you good at it did you have an angle no no there's no angle it was just like let's let's try to make some some bread here it's a quick money in vegas. Oh, he's good. Great plan. Great plan. Captain Morgan,

Vegas. You're seeing kind of how my mind works. Yeah. Satellite dishes. I'm going to move these 600 a day. 600 a day

satellite dishes. All right, buddy. Well, I'm happy for your success and the book sounds fun. Book is Stay Hungry comes out

February 27th. Yeah. And it's also an audio book. I wanted to put my voice to the words too. Oh, yeah, it's the best. Sure, why not? Have you done that? Yeah.

You can punch it up. Okay, I don't know what your experience was. It was long. I went in there and I left and I go, I can't read. I'm like, to read out loud, 256 pages. And they're on you too. It's like you forgot the uh. Yeah. Can you go back and do uh? You just, you know, to read out loud 256 pages. And they're on you too. It's like you forgot the, yeah.

Can you go back and do, uh, you just, you didn't. Yeah. Yeah. That guy was, uh, you said could instead of would. I was putting in words that weren't even on the page. Right. Riffing a little bit. Yeah. And it was, it was, it was one of the hardest things I've done.

Yeah. Because the problem with it is by the end, you know, your tone is a little cranky. Like you start off funny. And then by the end of the book, you're like, I gotta get the fuck out of here. I've been here for five fucking hours. Sorry if it's not chipper anymore. I know, man. But you got through it?

I got through it. And you're going to tour on the book? The book, we're in the middle of a tour right now. We're going to take the summer off and then we're going to start back up in the fall. Take summer off, do fun things with your family three weddings to go to one in sicily uh really yeah we're gonna take a have you been there yeah i went with my father actually six years ago is he sicilian yeah he was born in sheffaloo he came here when he was 15 years old so real italian oh yeah so ever since we went he's back he's been back every year since we- Oh, so if you didn't pay the money back-

We wouldn't have went. There'd be problems. Yeah. All right. Good, man. We'll have fun. Thank you. All right.

So that book is called Stay Hungry. I like Sebastian. Good guy. Funny guy. Worked hard. And the book is him. It's him. It's him in a book.

You know how that goes. Yes, the new garage is a garage, but it's going to be more than a garage. It's going to be a place where if my mother needs to live there, she can live there. So that'll be interesting. You know, like just, Mom, you got to sit outside. Albert Brooks is here. to yeah mom you gotta you know sit outside albert brooks is here mom could you could you uh you know get out of your your house and let me interview albert brooks no it's okay you know it's gonna it's the garage but it's you know it's a it's a nicer garage is what i'm implying is that's all

i'm saying and i think that my mom could sit in on the conversation i have with albert brooks if that ever happens. Heather Graham. Heather Graham is here, and I was excited to talk to her. I watched her new movie that she wrote, directed, and starred in, Half Magic. I've watched many of the movies she's been in. It was nice of her to come by, and this is me talking to her, all right? This is me talking to Heather Graham right now. All right? This is me talking to Heather Graham right now. I don't think I've ever done a podcast before. You've done radio.

Yeah, I've done radio. You're right. I've gone to like serious radio and stuff. Yeah. Not like, you know, the real deal cool podcast. The real deal cool. I feel like this is like a cool. You haven't gone to somebody's house to do media

no but i think that makes people probably more relaxed right because you're not like in a i think i something happens you know you you're surrounded by all this you know stuff and yeah but yeah people i think do relax it doesn't seem real it doesn't seem like um it does seem real though i feel like that's it it seems very real right okay but right but after a point you're like are we recording this is this yeah are you recording this yeah okay i am recording natural well you have an action figure that was a it's actually i would it's a piece of art it's the only one that exists wow some guy made that made a mark maron action figure because he thought i i needed one okay yeah there's a lot of- You do. You deserve one. Well, I appreciate that. Yeah.

I actually saw you, I think. I did see you. I saw the comedy. Where were the comedy stories? I went to go see Chris D'Elia and you were performing. It was great. I was there.

Yeah. Oh, you saw me? Yes. Oh. Of course. But I didn't meet you. I mean, you're famous. I'm kind of famous.

And I've also watched your show. You have? Every episode of Glow. Oh, that's fun, right? Yeah, it was really fun. Oh, good. Because I never know if people know me if there's familiarity because I know you. And then I listen to some of yourow. Oh, that's fun, right? Yeah, it was really fun. Oh, good. Because I never know if people know me, if there's familiarity, because I know you. And then I listened to some of your podcasts.

Just to get ready? I listened to Richard Jenkins. Yeah, it was just, well, some of my best friends love it. They were actually like, you should try to get on his podcast because he has the best podcast. And then I started listening to it. It was really, actually, I thought you'd be more, have more jokes, but you're just really interested in people, like asking them questions.

Yeah, no, it's like the joke thing, like that wears thin after a while. Yeah, no, it's cool. I learned so much about Richard Jenkins from your podcast about him. Like you really got into, I'm kind of like that with people too. Like I like asking people questions. Right. You know, well, you seem like that kind of person. Yeah, I can interview you.

You could, if you really want to. But like, I think sometimes asking people questions is a good way to keep them from going too far. It's asking you questions. Right. Yes, that's true. You just kind of keep waiting. But what about you? Seriously.

If you're genuinely interested. I feel like you're genuinely interested. I am. I think I am too. That's good. I could ask a lot of questions. Really? Is that generally what you do?

When you work with directors, are you the kind of person that's sort of like, what do you work with directors you know are you like the kind of person that's sort of like what do you want well usually i kind of get into like psychologically analyzing the character and like why do you think the character is doing this and what do you think the motivation so i get into the questions about the psychology of the characters yeah not as much like but directors but i can ask people like if i just met you i'd probably just ask you a lot of questions all right go ahead go ahead. Okay. What made you become a comedian? Well, I think like when I was a kid, I always wanted to, like I always liked comedians.

They always seemed to make sense of the world somehow. Because a good comic, like it kind of disarms a lot of your fears. Right. Right. It makes sense of things that seem complicated. So when I was a little kid watching comics, like I'd be like, oh, that's, yeah, that guy knows what's happening. He's got a handle on it. Yeah. Yeah. it was more about having a handle on reality yeah like they

weren't just like you know falling all the time it's kind of spiritual too because if you can have a sense of humor about life yeah then you sort of like you're not in like total despair right despair hopelessness dread yes yes yeah I guess is that I guess that's what spirituality is supposed to do uh give you a little hope yeah i think it feels just like you can detach and look at it with like oh my god this is all kind of funny not like this is horrific right right yeah for it doesn't always hold i mean you could do it it doesn't always hold you know you could do it for a while but then one day you'd be like oh god it's not working the new movie that your movie uh it has a spiritual bent yes yes well i wanted to well kind of what we're talking about i took some things that really

depressed me and i'm like how can i find humor in this and it's all kind of slightly based on true stories is it yeah because i didn't like i didn't know that the candle thing was real my girlfriend said that uh you know there are people that the candle thing is real yes well it started there's a store in new york called the enchantments have you ever been to enchantments i don't i feel like i may how long has it been it's more girly like i'm sure lots of guys aren't going there but you know you can buy candles and you can wish for love or you wish for you know great job or money yeah so i had some girlfriends yeah we would get together it wasn't all only candles we would just talk about what do we want and so it was these women and also moby moby was in it too yeah and so then he gave me that guy's nothing but trouble that moby i know he's amazing he's so generous he gave

us a lot of music for the movie so you're you're full on you're in this shit well i do a lot of yoga i meditate i do transcendental meditation you do tm well like you know how you look to comedy to heal your pain i look to like new age things well it's also my job so yeah yeah yeah and it's the way i think about things yeah uh you know it is my my craft my chosen craft but i wonder if i really look at it to heal my pain oh really i yeah i tend to look more towards food okay i mean food works i definitely have done that but it's not good it's not it's not spiritual you know like i i tend to avoid the spiritual by you know engaging in you know things outside of me to try to make myself feel better and you're being honest well that's good no i'm glad people get a lot out of it yeah but in terms of personal spiritual psychic health you don't have good psychic health

that's what you're saying not great not not you need to have some more sound baths i know i need i need to go to the sound bath at mobi's do you meditate i don't okay well but people have been telling me to tell me about tm though so you're in you bought your mantra and everything well um yeah that is kind of weird about tm they do make you pay for the class but i mean i learned it like when i work with david lynch on twin peaks on the original how did you meet david lynch originally you know i auditioned for a commercial he was doing for like Calvin Klein Obsession Perfume. Really?

Yeah. He did commercials, I guess? He did. I mean, I guess he was making money, you know? And then I guess Benicio Del Toro was in my commercial before he ever started doing like acting a lot. At all? Yeah.

So yeah, so I met David Lynch and then he put me in Twin Peaks in the original. Right, the original one. That's actually how I became friends with Moby. That far back? No, because he was a fan. So when I ran into him, he was like, I love Twin Peaks. And so then he introduced himself.

Right. And that was pretty recently? No, that was like 10 years ago, maybe. Oh, so original Moby. Yeah. Like a first flush Moby, the big record Moby. Yeah. No, maybe, no, because that was maybe more like 15 years ago.

Oh, was it that long ago? It's flying by yeah it really is so david lynch hipped you to tm is that yeah i just was like he told me to go to meditate how old were you then i was like 20 yeah something like 20 were you all why do you why do you suggest it to you at that time well i think i was unhappy because i think that's a hard age when you're like just moving out of the house from your parents like who am i like why am i depressed and like i didn't really know how to cook. So I just used to eat a lot of candy bars.

Like I'd be like, okay, I won't eat dinner. So I'll just buy eight candy bars. Which kind of candy bar? It's unhealthy. Reese's, Twix, Kit Kat. Those are the best ones. Those are all the best ones. I know.

Reese's are the best. Like for sure. Yeah, but you can only take so much of them. Kit Kat, Twix, yeah. Crunchy. I like me too. Caramel. Yeah.

Those are my three. I know. Occasionally I'll do M&Ms. I used to eat so unhealthy that I would like much of them. Kit Kat, Twix, yeah, Crunchy. I like me too. Caramel. Yeah, those are my three. I know. Occasionally, I'll do M&Ms. I used to eat so unhealthy that I would eat muffins. I'd be like, oh, bran muffins are healthy. I didn't think that's cake, really. I still do that sometimes. I still do that myself.

And I would eat pasta. I would eat muffins, pasta, and candy bars. But those three, those are the best ones in my book. I know. Twix, Kit Kats, and the Reese's. Yes, but meditating helped me not eat so badly. And then there was a frozen yogurt place that I love. But that was your pre-spirituality spirituality.

Yeah. I would just be like, how can I gorge on sugar? Get a high. Yeah. And then I get a low. Yeah. And then I'm just like thinking about tomorrow. What can I buy tomorrow?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How do I stock up? Yeah. No ice cream? Not an ice cream?

No. I did used to eat pints of like Reese's peanut butter cup. Peanut butter cup ice cream? Or cookie dough. Or cookie dough. Cookie dough or Reese's peanut Butter Cup or cookie dough. Or cookie dough. Cookie dough or Reese's Peanut Butter Cup. Peanut Butter Cup is the best. The Ben and Jerry's Peanut Butter Cup.

But it's disgusting. You can really only do that when you're like 18, 19, 20. I did it into my 40s. Did you? Yeah, I did pints. I was still doing pints. So how do you stay like this? I'm done with it now.

I don't do it now. I'm barely hanging on now. It makes you feel terrible. I had a biscuit yesterday and I don't want to kill myself. I know. Well, it's good though, right? And a piece of olive oil cake. That sounds good.

That sounds like kind of gourmet though. Not as bad. It was a little bit. It was fancy, yeah. So David Lynch sees this kid gorging on, basically bulimic. No.

Well, I never threw up. I think I was more like, let me starve myself and then eat candy bars. Because throwing up was too gross for me. I just watched actually the Jane Fonda documentary, and she talks about being bulimic, which is so interesting. Wow.

Growing up was gross to you? Is that what you said? Growing up, no, throwing up. Throwing up was too gross. Right, sure. So I wouldn't go to the bulimia aspect, but I would go to like, okay, I won't eat a regular dinner, and I'll just eat eight candy bars. Right, right, right.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For the whole day. You just wait the whole day. Maybe I eat like a bran muffin. Bran and i'll just eat eight candy bars right right right yeah yeah yeah for the whole day you just wait the whole day maybe i eat like a bran muffin bran muffin in the morning eight candy bars or like i go to get frozen yogurt i get frozen yogurt for like lunch and frozen yogurt for dinner sure sure ice cream but it's not ice cream right in your mind not ice cream remember there was a whole craze that was like everything had to be no non-fat but it was full of sugar like tasty delight and you just be like oh it's non-fat i

can eat as much as i want and then you'd be like why do i feel so crazy right now because i just eat like so much sugar you get all bloated yeah yeah all right so david so lynch goes we gotta get you go level you off no i think i just was like intrigued because i mean i grew up in suburbia there weren't a lot of creative types around in agora oh here see now it's cool but when i was there i feel like is it cool i don't know i feel like some people live out there and commute like i don't know i mean it's nicer there's like a movie theater just because like you you kind of know people who live out there it's pretty it is pretty but it's like suburbia there wasn't a lot of cultural there weren't

cultural things going on that's where you were born here and out in the in california my dad was an fbi and he was transferred around a lot he He's from Philadelphia. My mom's from New Jersey. I was born when he was... Is he still around? Yeah, he's still alive. Have you talked to him about what's going on? Not a lot, no. Oh, really? You haven't called him like, what is up? What do you think about this? The FBI, they're going

down. They haven't done it. He's not real. I mean, he's more conservative because they're quite religious, you know? Sure, but still, I mean, that agency had an integrity to it. It's taken a lot of hits. But so, you know, you don't have to talk to him about that. Well, I was born in Wisconsin. Then I lived outside of Washington, D.C. in Virginia.

And then I moved to L.A. when I was nine. That was when he was at the home office. Yeah. The bureau. Yeah. And then he was out in the field. And then he was in the federal building on Wilshire. Oh yeah so he's an fbi agent your whole life he retired from the fbi he got his pension from the fbi yeah was it was there points where you were like what are

you doing it just sounded cool but he really just had a normal he just would leave in the morning come home at night and he had a gun and a bulletproof vest sure but and you're like this is cool i get to impress people but it's like it didn't i didn't he didn't really talk about what he was doing so it just seemed like oh he goes to work in the morning comes home at night yeah with his gun and his bulletproof vest and you imagine you would have heard if something went down with either of those things yeah yeah yeah i know he worked he worked on terrorism for a while oh yeah yeah well that sounds interesting you've never like sat down and had conversations they're not allowed to really talk about it.

I think once when he was retired, I think I said, well, do you have any stories? He was like, well, once we intercepted this shipment of these weapons that would explode in people's bodies. Wow. So he's like, I was really glad that we caught that and stopped them from nailing that to the other terrorists. Right. And what did your mom do in the childhood years? Well, my mom was um she was a teacher before she got married and then she was a housewife and she was writing children's books

and poetry and um so then like as we grew up yes that's great yeah so you could hold up your mom's children's book yeah i mean i don't have any siblings but i have a younger sister how much she's a year and a half younger oh yeah she's in show business yes how's she doing she's an actress and i think she got recently into like producing and stuff oh yeah like you getting into directing i guess yeah writing yes yes yeah why would she why why would both of you go into this miserable fucking business because i guess we moved to la you know you're like the proximity to la just draws you in. It does, I guess. Well, for me, I was an awkward nerd. So I'm like, how can I distinguish myself and like get attention?

You were nerdy? Yeah, I was quite nerdy. And I wasn't really thought of as attractive. So then when I started, this was like when I was in high school. And like, I was kind of tomboyish. And then I got went on auditions. And like, they'd be like, okay, you're auditioning for like the pretty cheerleader. And I'm like, I couldn't get on the cheerleading squad.

And nobody's asking me out really. So was like this is fun right you're so this other world where people think I'm like this cool pretty person and that's where it started that's how it started um what you so you're growing up in Agora Hills how do you just how do you make how do you like go I'm gonna do show business and figure out how to get in it well basically okay if you want to go back to when it started, I think I used to like to make up fantasy games in my head and play it with the kids in the neighborhood. And I'd be like, you guys are vampires and I'm this character and you're that and let's all do this game.

And then I think I went to high school and I got really awkward and nerdy and I used to audition for the plays. And that was like my area of like getting attention. Oh, really? So you were like, you know, full on drama geek. Okay. So you lived over there in the drama department. So when I moved to Agora,

I started to get the lead in the plays. Doing musicals. Yeah. But I was a terrible singer, but somehow I still had enough like showbiz personality that I got away with like having a, not a very good singing voice. Like I started in damn Yankees.

I was Lola and damn Yankees when I was like 14. Yeah. And that's where it started. I mean, I was like 14. Uh-huh. Yeah. And that's where it started. I mean, that was like a highlight of my childhood. But you were one of those kids who was withdrawn or nerdy or not completely socially awkward and you came to life in the drama department. I was like smart. I was in these advanced placement classes.

So if you're in that, then you kind of just travel around with that group of advanced placement. You're in advanced math. You're in advanced math, you're in advanced English, you're in, you know, so then it's like- Do you remember those people in your group? Yeah, I do. Just, you know, just very smart kids who,

you know, there seems to be, you're looked at differently by the rest of the school. Yeah, yeah. You're not as cool as like a jock or like a cheerleader or the pop, you know. It doesn't end well for them. Yeah. I mean, then it's like, yeah, then you're pop, you know. It doesn't end well for them. Yeah. I mean, then it's like, yeah, then you're like, yeah, the nerds are really the cool people.

Have you gone to reunions? No, I haven't. But I have one friend still from high school. She's actually coming to our premiere. Oh, yeah? She's really good friends, yeah. Oh, that's nice. Yeah.

So, okay. But still, how do you cross the bridge? Do you go to college? I did. I went to UCLA for a few years. But I actually started working when I was in high school. I was in License to Drive with Corey Haim and Corey Feldman. Oh, they do. bridge how what what you do you go to college um i did i went to ucla for a few years um but i actually started working when i was in high school i was in license to drive with cory hame and cory feldman oh it's the poor yeah i know it's like all these stories that have come out well hame is dead

right he he kind of went christian and drugs is that what happened he i know that he was i mean i guess at the time i was working with them they got they were doing drugs but i was like very naive and i didn't really you know but you know they've talked about it and they were doing drugs and cory haim died yeah but much later i mean much later and then you know cory feldman has come out with you know the pedophile ring i know it's so disturbing like i was working with him during that time and i had no idea that was happening it's so disturbing you think you would have known but i guess that's what a lot of people are saying about a lot of things. Yeah. I mean, they just seem like cooler. Like, I'm like, I'm from the suburban high school and they've been in and like stand by me and Lucas.

And I'm like, they seem like so sophisticated. And I guess maybe I kind of knew they were doing drugs. And like Corey Haim was dating like Lala Zappa. And I just felt like I was like this. Lala Zappa. Yeah. I feel like I was like this awkward, like normal person looking at these stars. So I didn't think like, oh, something terrible is going on for them.

I just thought, oh, I'm with these amazing stars. So yeah, and you were afforded the distance because you weren't in, right? I wasn't in the circle. I was like, I am a normal person acting with movie stars. And I didn't think like, oh, wow, there are these people that are leading these. You know, I think they were both emancipated from their parents. And I knew that there's things. What does that mean?

That means that you don't need a guardian on set. And it also means that I think your parents, I don't know if it's that they're incapable or just that you don't want to have to have a guardian. Sure. So they sign the thing. You are emancipated. Freed.

You're freed, yeah. You don't have to go to the school. That's interesting, though, because I get that feeling When I'm on Glow I'm like looking at Alison Brie During scenes Going like Oh I'm working with a real actress

She's probably like Being impressed by you Oh that's true We do alright together We got a good thing on screen It's great to see a show With so many women No kidding

A lot of them I've never been around That many women in my life You're like the only guy On that show practically I'm the cranky The cranky sexist At the center

You must love it right You get all these women You're like I get to be the only man on that show, practically. I'm the cranky sexist at the center. You must love it, right? You get all these women. You're like, I get to be the only man with all these women. Well, you know, I try to just be one of the girls. Yeah. Yeah. All right. So, but how do you get an agent and stuff when you're in high school?

How does that happen? Your parents have got to be in on it. Well, I think you have to have a certain degree of ambitious unhappiness where you're just like, oh, you feel like I need to do this. And then you drive, you get your driver's license. And my mom was supportive. And I drove into the city to go on auditions.

But you have to go on a lot of auditions. Well, how did you find the auditions? Did you have somebody that signed you or what happened? You know what? I think I got an agent. And then I went to acting classes. And I think through my acting classes, I got maybe an agent.

When you're very young, it's a little bit easier to get an agent. Like as you get older, it's harder because there's more competition. But when you're just like, I'm 15, you know, it's a little bit easier to just be like, okay, you have no experience. We'll try sending you out a few times. I think I got a commercial agent. And then I went to acting classes. And, you know, you try, you ask everyone like, oh, you ask your acting teacher, can you introduce me to your agent?

Blah, blah, blah. And I think I got my first agent because my acting teacher, I could tell she didn't really want to help me. But I was like, well, I found this other agency. She's like, oh, they're not good. I'll introduce you to mine. Yeah. So she helped me get the agent that helped me get the auditions that helped me get that movie with Corey Haim and Corey Feldman. And what kind of classes were they?

How many teachers have you worked with in your life? I went to a lot. This was just like, I guess I was 16 or 17. I used to drive into the city and take one night classes in Hollywood. And I was just so excited because I felt like I was from suburbia and here were these arty people. And I always felt like a bit of a weirdo oddball. So I'm like, oh, these people, I feel like I can relate to them more. Yeah. felt like a bit of a weirdo oddball so I'm like oh these people I feel like I can relate to them more you know yeah so but but do you remember like because I always wonder like were there teachers that made a big impact or that you know do you know where you learned most of what you

know well I tried a lot of different teachers the person I went to the most his name's Harry Master George and I remember I was really impressed because when I started going to his class like Ray Liotta was in it and I think like Melanie Griffin and you were like what 17 I was like yeah like maybe I was 20 or something yeah because I think that was a different class I went to when I was like 17

right but so I started going to I went to his class for a long time and he was just really supportive because some acting teachers can be a little like mean

they just want to break you down yeah yeah yeah make you cry yeah I mean I went to different like I went to Meisner classes I tried a different lot but then I started going to Harry he just does scene study.

Yeah? Yeah. And he just like, so you do the scene and then he just tells you what you did or how you feel. His whole theory is just basically like use your imagination and just pretend you're this person and just sit in your home for eight hours a day picturing your life and picturing every moment and think of like every thought that's coming into your head. And don't practice the lines out loud and don't do it in front of a mirror but just become this person by your imagination oh so that was that's the trick and basically sit there just like your entire day like so instead

of going to work you just sit in your house just picturing that person yeah yeah and it worked for you i mean i did get job i mean that's the main thing i you know sometimes i'll i'll try to make things similar to my life like you'll be like okay well this character's feeling this feeling and i felt this feeling in this moment but that's not really what he teaches but occasionally i will do that and so theoretically if you can imagine it thoroughly enough you don't need to do that that's his belief yeah yeah but other people are sort of like i need to cry i gotta think about my dog like yeah you're like okay well this thing reminds me of this situation so i'll kind of like substitute it and then try it. But his theory is like, it should be puristly just thinking of the story.

And if you were really this person in this story. But the weird thing is, is that like I've learned, cause I'm fairly new to acting, you know, in a professional way is that, you know, it's,

that's only going to enrich. A lot of times that's going to make the experience for you more deep and interesting, but for someone watching it, you know, however you cry you're generally doesn't matter no i know everyone has like a different way so yeah every teacher just has their different way but that was his way and and so you did you did license to drive yeah and

then you did but then so right pretty then i did drugstore cowboy that was like pretty soon after right yeah that's when i really met like gus van sant and like what was the casting for that like i mean it's like Matt Dillon James LeGrow no yeah but how'd you get it oh how did I get it I just auditioned I went and auditioned for it I think I had to cry on it and I remember just the whole day like just putting myself in this crazy mood and going in I was the hat on the bed thing yeah you put the hat on the bed I know I know I died in it and I I got put in a body bag. You turned blue. Yeah.

You OD'd, right? Yeah. And that was before Gus Van Sant ever had done. That was like his first big movie. He did this smaller movie. It's a great movie. It's a great movie. Yeah.

So that was, I suddenly was like, oh my God, like this is all these cool arty people and Matt Dillon. Did you meet William Burroughs? Yes. How was that? He was cool. I mean, I was like 18. So I'm not like, you know. You didn't know who he was really?

I think I started reading his books because I was working with him, but I hadn't like known who. At 18 to read his books. Yeah. I mean, I had like no drug taking, you know, history at that point. Did he seem like just this weird old grandpa? I mean, no. They just seemed like these weird.

I remember like James LeGros saying like, you should read Charles Bukowski and John Fonte. And I'm like, oh, there's all these interesting people I can read. And they're like, listen to Tom Waits. And I'm like, wow, no one at my high school was ever into all this cool. I'm like oh there's all these interesting people I can read and they're like listen to Tom Waits and I'm like wow no one at my high school was ever into all this cool I'm like I felt so cool

I'm like listening to Tom Waits and like reading John Fonte and Charles Bukowski I'm like I've really made it into the cool circle of like arty people it's very LA though

those three things it's sort of wild you've got William Burroughs there who's the grandfather of all that shit but like you know those guys those three are LA people

you could have seen any of them so alright so so now you're you're moving right you're drugstore cowboy things are happening yeah things are happening i started to feel like oh my god you know maybe i'm gonna like break out and i like met all these interesting people but you know it's hard being an actor like you know i kept working but it wasn't like then i suddenly like got every job i ever wanted we did some like movies like, I don't remember that were probably movies that, that weren't as big as they could be. Yeah. Yeah.

But like you did work with Lawrence Kasdan. Yeah. And I got to work with Jessica Lange. I did some cool things. Like, and I supported myself as an actor, which I'm like so grateful for. Well,

this, I love you to death. I kind of remember that movie. I had a small part. It was basically about how Kevin Kline was cheating on his wife. It was played by Tracy Ullman. And basically i was like one of the girls he was cheating on with did you meet river phoenix and everybody yes i can't believe he died it's so so many people have died it's so sad yeah right he was so nice yeah but getting back to david lynn

she's got you meditating he stuck you into tm and you do the tv show yeah and then you do the TV show. Yeah. And then you do the movie and you're like 20, 21? I guess so. 21? Yeah. Yeah, maybe. But then you do like before, how far away is Swingers? I remember you in Swingers. Then it was like years later

that I was in Swingers and then I was in Boogie Nights. But yeah, but you did that Two Girls and a Guy. Oh yeah, I did that. That was actually after Boogie Nights.

Oh, it was? It came out before? Yeah, I worked with a lot of sexual harassers. Well, no, I know. That's right. Toback was like- I managed to hit a lot of those people on that list.

Yeah, Toback directed Two Girls and a Guy, which was- Actually, he did not sexually harass me, even though I could see that he, I'm sure, did sexually harass a lot of people. But yeah, that- But he was one of those guys. He was not just a rasser. He was a predator. He was just like a gambler.

He was a predator. No, he was like- He would like- Okay, our whole shoot, maybe we only had like two weeks. We shot that whole movie in like two weeks or two and a half weeks. He would go away at lunch and he would come back late. Like that's, no one would ever do that in a movie that only had two and a half weeks. Yeah. And we'd be like, where is he?

And they'd be like, I think he's gambling or I don't know. Or maybe he was trying to have sex with someone. But like, he would be like an hour late. We're sitting there with like Robert Downey Jr. We're like, where did the director go? How was Downey at that point? He had just come out of his like drug phase. So he was getting drug tested every day.

He had somebody with him. Had he done jail? No, he wasn't jail yet. That came later, I think. I'm not sure. All I know is that he was like on a drug watch.

Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, so that was odd. That was show business. So like outside of Toback, like before that,

who he worked with gus a few times you work with some women directors but who are the other predators oh there's so many on well israel horovitz gross have you worked with him no but i dated his son when i was 19 18 oh i dated his son around the time of drugstore cowboy what's his name mike adam adam from the beastie boys yes and he basically, after I dated Adam and we broke up, I auditioned for one of his plays. And after the audition, I was riding down in the elevator. He's like, let me walk you out. And so he gets in the elevator and then he just pushes me against the elevator, sticks his tongue down my throat.

I feel like he might have said something about like, what are we going to do about us? And I was just like, what are you talking about? And then I just got out of the elevator and I just never talked to him again and then I heard him saying later like Heather's so ungrateful I don't know oh really

yeah I don't know because I think he helped me when I was with Adam like he recommended me to this acting class in New York that I went to so was this before like Boogie Nights

and everything it was way before it was like after Drugstore Cowboy yeah but then a lot of women recently came out about that a lot a lot

about Horowitz the thing that was really disturbing was that like a lot of women recently came out about a lot a lot and then about horowitz the thing that was really disturbing was that like a lot of women came out in the 90s yeah and and and they weren't taken seriously and they were like oh these women are high strung or you know and they didn't do anything about it and so 20 years later more women came out or some of the same women came out again plus more women and they finally took it seriously yeah the whole thing on npr i was listening to about why um are people taking this seriously now when they didn't before. Because the jig is up.

The jig's up. It's so good. As a woman, we're just like reading this news. We're like, yes, this is water in a desert. Like, it's so fun to read these stories. And you also had a Weinstein encounter. Yes, I did. Do you look back at it thinking that it was career shifting?

I mean, what happened exactly? Well, I don't know. Like, I mean, he's just one person. I don't know any stories. One very powerful person. Yeah, one very powerful. I mean, basically, yeah, I went into his office and he was like, had these scripts on a table. And he was like, I want to work with you.

You're just, you're pretty and you're funny. And that's a rare combination. So choose one of these scripts, any script, and we'll just do it together and i was like holy shit you know and then he was like you know my wife and i have an arrangement when i'm out of town i can just have sex with whoever i want and then he hugs me right and i'm reading all these stories afterwards like recently i'm like i'm so glad i got out of that office quickly like and i was like great i just pretended like i don't know how to deal with this and so i just left and then i thought is there any way to turn this back into like a working situation do

you know what i mean because i kind of knew what he was inferring but i thought well i went to his office is there so i asked some people and they said just don't be alone with him so i found this other friend so that this was when in your career like this was like 2000 and like i'm just gonna say um approximately 2003 so i had already been like people already knew they're like 2000 and like, I'm just going to say approximately 2003. So I had already been like. And people already knew. I was in my 30s. Like I wasn't like 19.

You've been around. Yeah. And, you know, I think he does obviously do this to a lot of young women, but I think he's doing this to a lot of women in general. Right. It's not. And people knew enough to, the women knew enough to tell you don't be alone with them. Someone said, and you know, I had actually heard the Rose McGowan story, but I never

heard that he raped her. I only heard that he attacked her and that she, from the story that I heard, he attacked her, she hit him and ran out. Yeah. But I didn't know that he had actually raped anyone. That was what was going around then. That was what was going around then. So I just thought, so then what happened was I thought, okay, I'm going to-

So in the story you heard back then, she got away. She wins. The story I heard, I had heard stories that like he invites women to his hotel room he has his robe half open and he says like oh come in and and then it's awkward and that i heard that with rose mcgowan it was just a bigger story that i i basically just heard he attacked her and she ran out right i didn't hear that oh he actually you know had raped her yeah because there's this uh the the it's almost like you said about like uh you know i'm not trying to trivialize anything but with c Corey Haim and Corey Feldman is that, you know, these stories were around, but then now there's sort of people saying that everyone's complicit because no one was doing anything. But the story you hear is not always what happened.

I guess it was the story wasn't the full story, right? Because I think most people didn't know that he was actually raping people. I think people thought that he was a horrible sexual harasser. But as a woman, and they had this on the NPR special I was listening to, you look at other people who come forward with stories of sexual harassment and see how they're treated before you decide if you're going to come forward, right? So like you look at Anita Hill, like what happened to her? You know, like she was like, they tried to humiliate her.

They tried to make her seem crazy. Can you name a story of a woman who came forward with a sexual harassment story where she was treated respectfully and fairly? Right. Before that time. Before now. Can you? I don't, I can't really.

I know. So it's like, as a woman, when this happens to you, you're like, I could, you know, I mean, he didn't attack me physically. Like he just basically insinuated I need to have sex with him for a job. Like, can I get him put in jail for this? But there's also at that time, sadly, thing is like well that's show business you know people would just say that's harvey oh that's harvey don't go to his office then but like the casting couch idea has been around since the beginning of movies right so it was instilled that deeply

and the more detailed and grotesque it got as time went on but it still always always goes back to you know women are meat in this business well sometimes yeah you get a bit defeatist as a woman you're like well what am i going to do about this right can i fight the whole system uh like you got to make rules for yourself that you shouldn't have to make and then you're like well do i will i get hired more if i seem like oh i'm like this bitchy woman that's complaining like i don't know you're like did you ever once think that like i got to do this to get in? It seemed like you were already going.

I didn't because I just, from my point of view, this is how my mind works. I think any guy that is doing that is probably not going to fulfill. I mean, like if I'm like, if Harvey Weinstein saying have sex with me and I'll give you a job, what if he doesn't? Then I had sex with him and he didn't give me.

I mean, I'm just like, I don't believe him. So I don't know. Maybe he did give people jobs that he had sex with, but I'm just like I don't believe him so I don't know maybe he did give people jobs that he had sex with but I'm just like I'm not the kind of person that can do that

because I guess I just don't want it that badly I just couldn't bring myself to having sex with him well good there's no shame in that

I wasn't attracted to him like he was well it's just odd it's funny to me plus honestly there's something scary about him so I'm not surprised that he was violent because you know how you, some people can like hit

on you and it's just kind of funny and it makes you feel flattered. You're like, whatever, it's not a big deal. But he had a thing where it just felt like when you were around him, do you know where you feel like people just like rape your self-esteem? Yeah, there's a menace. Or they pull the rug out from under you. They want to, it's like they're on a power trip and they'd like to make you feel bad about yourself in order that they feel better.

That's just how it felt around him even without being physically attacked. He just exudes this sort of boundaryless, he's a taker. I think he reels you in with charisma. Like, oh, he's making all these cool movies and he's this sensitive guy and he's making very sensitive movies.

But then when you really talk to him, he's basically like, I'm in power, you're not. And I want you to feel this fact that you're totally like lesser than me yeah i have control of your life have you ever been around him and felt that no i've never been around him but i i mean i certainly you know i i know those kind of people it's like they get off on like it's just sadistic basically well yeah they it's sadistic but it's also like he believes that you know that he's entitled right you. It's like right now privilege. I don't know.

Maybe, I don't know if he- But he had real power in this industry. So much power. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just all these human beings, abuse of power and getting off on having power. I know.

It's so good to see them go down too. You're like, finally, there's some sense of justice in the world. And it's good to see that some men think that's bad, too, because it's like it makes me feel better as a woman that some guys are like, that sucks. You know? Yeah. I mean, women should be able to move through the world without being confronted by dicks all the time. They should be able to go to work and not have to deal with dicks all day.

Yeah, that's for sure. It's a reckoning. Yeah, it's a reckoning. Cultural reckoning. And you a reckoning cultural reckoning and you yeah in your movie you your character like ironically like i wrote i was working i started working this like six or seven years ago and now we just happen to be coming out right after all this stuff happened you made it before i made it before obviously stuff is happening right but i just was like okay my protest is not going to be to go to the police and say i was sexually

harassed or go to the press at that time it's's like I'm going to write a movie and hopefully deal with this horrible sexism with comedy and sexual harassment. Yeah. Yeah. But like, it's funny because it's not as like you could. It could have even been more pointed had you made it like today. I know. That's the thing. I just thought, I don't know.

Will people be? Will this be palatable? Because I really thought I want to make a female empowerment movie. Like, I hope it empowers men too but i specifically thought like i want to empower women and but i don't want to be this like angry feminist where people are like oh i don't want to listen to this because in the past when people came forward with sexual harassment stories people would just be like oh so at the time you made it you were tempering yourself i was tempering myself and making it just a little more like let's go for the comedy here and not make it as dark because

also i just thought it's so depressing. And I just didn't want to depress myself too much about how depressing it is. Well, yeah, because it's interesting because, you know, the way you guys talk to each other in the movie about, you know, where you're at. Also, I cast Chris D'Elia as the harasser. So it's not like this gross Harvey Weinstein person. It's like kind of this cute, charismatic guy. Yeah. But he's like charming and he's not like, you know. No, no, no.

I think he did a good job. I thought he was funny and I thought everyone was funny. I thought, what's her name from The Office? Angela. She's great. She's hilarious. She acted the shit out of some of those scenes.

She blew my head off. I mean, she definitely, like the scene where she phone calls her ex-husband and he comes over. Like she mixed comedy and drama in that scene in a way that kind of blew my mind. Also, Thomas Lennon's pretty amazing. He's funny.

He's great. But Angela is just, she's pretty awesome. Well, I was surprised. Like she went pretty deep in like, you know, fairly, you know, those scenes with the new guy. Yeah. The ponytail guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like they were really going for it. They really were. And you know, Angela hasn't really played those kind of roles. I know. It was pretty amazing. So she was nervous. She's like, oh my God, I've never done like a sex scene. I think she was in the back room drinking tequila. Oh, really?

She was nervous because, you know, she's very conservative and she's very like, she's not like so, but she was, I don't know. She really did a great job. Yeah. She definitely went for it. She went for it. And it was funny though,, because all the characters had these self-esteem issues. I know. And that was sort of the dialogue, which is like, now it seems like the dialogue is, fuck you. We're powerful. Yeah. But I think that the honesty of those, like all of you having these fun-

Usually, fuck you is covering a self-esteem issue. No, absolutely. But it was all in relation to men, a know, fun. Usually fuck you is covering a self-esteem issue. No, absolutely. But like it was all in relation to men. A lot of it. Yeah. You know, and it was sort of, and it's interesting that, you know, you got Johnny Knoxville playing this preacher, you know, who shows up later. I don't want to spoil anything.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you come from religion? I do. Yeah. My family's very religious, Catholic. And basically the scene in the beginning where the dad and the daughter are sitting watching a TV show. For me, it was the love boat, but we couldn't afford the rights to that.

Right. But I used to watch the love boat with my dad. And he'd be like, see those people going into that hotel room? They're having premarital sex. And you can go to hell for that. I remember just thinking as a kid, like, this is so scary. Like, I don't even know what he's talking about. Like, I'm so freaked out.

And did it stay with you? Yes. I mean, that's why I put it in. You went to church every Sunday? Oh, yeah. Until I moved out of the house with my parents, I went to church every Sunday, every holy day. I did confirmation confession.

And in fact, my dad used to say to me, Catholic, he used to say like, we should have sent you to the convent. Really? Well, that's something that I think Catholic fathers have said for generations. We should have sent you to Catholic school. He's like, we should have sent you to Catholic school. Get thee to a nunnery. Yes.

Yeah. Well, I mean, Catholic school happens. I know. I guess you got lucky. You got out. You didn't do it. I was watching that movie Novitiate, and there's a scene where it's all about beating up on yourself, right? Yeah. I'm like, because I do that to myself now sometimes.

I'm like, well, this is where I got it. And they give these girls a whip. Yeah, they're like, if you haven't been a good Catholic, hit yourself with this whip. And I thought, oh, I feel like I was kind of brought up to be like that. It's like, oh, if you've been bad, beat yourself up a lot and try to be better. Yeah, mentally. Yeah, I didn't use an actual whip, but mentally. So you really were in it mentally.

Hell existed. Well, I feel like why does religion bring us up to have fear and shame around our sexuality? When ultimately, if God created us, isn't our sexuality part of that? And shouldn't we embrace that as like a beautiful part of ourselves? So it seems like a opposite doesn't make sense. Yeah. And you covered that in the movie. Yeah.

Well, no, I thought like- I feel like that was my personal journey. So I just put it in a movie because I thought, I don't see anyone telling this specific story. And I felt like to me, I went through it in my life. And I thought, when I was younger, I felt like, all right, and I think this is common with women, though I'm sure not all women, but I felt like I liked sex,

but I didn't love it. I'm just like, let me just do what I think the guy wants. But I didn't really fully know what I liked because I was just like, I don't really get it and I'll just try to please the guy. So then I think I reached a point

where I was with someone and I'm like, oh my God, I finally get why people like sex. Do you know what I mean? And then I thought like what you said, oh, this must be love. I have to be with him for the rest of my life

because now I've realized that my sexuality is spiritual and beautiful and so I'm in love and it's this guy that's making me feel this way instead of just being like, oh, I just had this epiphany.

Yeah, or also like that's what it's supposed to be like. And I think women, as we get older, can enjoy sex more. I mean, like I'm saying, it's not all women, but I know for myself and a lot of other people I know,

you kind of get more into your body, you know, and learn how to enjoy it more. Well, yeah, well, I think there's a part of that movie where somehow or another, you managed to do a fairly extensive masturbating scene that was, you know, as a viewer, I felt like I was interrupting. I felt like I was like, you know,

maybe I should let her be alone. It was so non-sexual to the viewer, but it was kind of funny. That's the thing. Well, yeah, I was kind of going for humor because I'm like, okay, it's not a porno. So I guess I was going for humor. She's kind of having a little trouble. Right, yeah. And then in the second scene, I wanted to have more of a spiritual,

so that she finds herself. Like, oh, you can give yourself a sexual orgasm. Yeah. And then the stars go. Yeah. Right. Right. You figured it out.

But it was just sort of funny. It was so kind of like passive. You know what I mean? Like, I guess I'll put the headphones on. You know, it was definitely. Well, you know, it's like, OK, when you break up with someone and you just had really good sex, you're like, OK, well, I guess I should masturbate. You're like, it's just not the same.

And you're just trying to find that sexuality inside yourself without another person yeah you can find it you can but it takes a while yeah it's harder well i'm glad that you put that out there to help people like you just take your time find the right music and you went manual you didn't go no machines i know actually some people offered us money like these different like dildo companies were like if you use our dildo world will give you fifty thousand dollars for your budget and i'm like i don't know if that's what i'm trying to say with the movie because i'm trying to i don't know i'm not trying to sell a product at that moment but we were offered money to use sex toys at that moment oh yeah well and but you know i think you made the

right choice yeah and all right so let's, like, going back to, you know, because there is a lot of spirituality in the movie and a lot of sort of coming into people's selves, you know, right? But how are you doing yourself? Are you all right mentally these days? I mean, I think it's like... You still beat up on yourself? I do. Yeah, it's sort of like a journey where I keep getting better and better at it, but it still exists.

So I'm just like a much, much better at it. But I still have, you know, things I struggle with. Really? Yeah. Like what? Okay, well, like let's say, you know, I feel like a lot of us can relate to this, but you grow up and maybe your parents don't really know how to unconditionally love themselves. So they don't teach you how to unconditionally love yourself. So you have to be a loving parent to your own inner child i

know this is getting into sort of like a weird psychological inner child area but you have to be able to speak nicely to yourself like as this like unconditionally loving parent like great job great i'm there for you you know like i'm doing that for myself and i know that sounds incredibly dorky but it actually is kind of great. No, I completely know what that's like. I think that's true, that you have to learn how to self-parent after a certain point. Yeah. Or else you're going to be- Okay, my parents tried their best.

They definitely did some good things. Some things were not as good. So I have to correct that inside myself. Yes. Because you internalize some of the bad patterns or something. And so then you're like, okay, how can I be more loving in this moment? And I guess I was always brought up maybe through religion and being a woman

to think I need to take care of other people first and not myself. And then I learned as an adult, it's actually the opposite is true. If you take care of yourself first and you're really loving, then you have so much more to give.

Right. And actually someone had this really great thing they said the other day. They said, it's like an African proverb. They're like, beware the naked man

who gives you a shirt. Yeah. So how can you give somebody love if you don't love yourself? Right, right. Which I tried to get into in the you don't love yourself, you know? Right, right. Which I tried to get into in the movie as well. Like, you know, because I felt like I was taught like,

oh, you can't do things for yourself. You have to do things for other people. But if you really love yourself a lot and do things for yourself, then you just have so much more to give and you're just a more loving person and you're not coming out of like a resentful state of like a naked person giving someone a shirt.

Yeah, and it's hard to stay in that. Sort of like what we were talking about earlier with spirituality or with comedy or staying out of the dread or the hopelessness or the self judgment or feeling like you're not enough or whatever. Like, but that whole idea of the parents, like,

yeah, the, if you don't deal with that shit, your expectation to be parented will never go away. Right. Yeah. You're sad. You're just like,

Oh, well, why wasn't I in these moments unconditionally loved the way I wanted to be? You're like, okay, now it's up to me to do that for myself. And that feels so gross because you're like, I want to fill this hole inside myself with either the perfect relationship or the job or the money or having kids. I don't know. Whatever it is for you. Right.

But it really, you have to do it for yourself. Right. You're like some kind of spirituality. You're just deciding that you love and accept yourself with all your flaws and imperfections and so hard extra work it's so hard do you do that i i i do like to a degree i'm i'm aware of everything you're saying and i've read some books about it and i you know i'm on top of it but you know to actually do it is like hard well i give my the only way i can do it really is give myself breaks yeah that's good self-care yeah or just like don't beat yourself up about that yeah you know what good what you

did it yeah you know even you know and sometimes it's as stupid as a candy bar so like yeah you know you can fucking have one candy bar that's fine is it yeah i think so i mean if you're not like eating eight candy bars you've got to to allow yourself that. But you have to really decide what are you doing? Is it really worth beating yourself up for a day? Yeah, it's not. This is what I do because I beat up on myself a lot. And I just go, I pray. Because I don't, I just go, okay, whatever universe, higher power, whatever God, please take this away.

You do that? Yeah. It's so hard. Do you still have belief in God? universe higher power or whatever god like please take this away you do that yeah is that from so hard do you uh do you still have belief in god um i mean i don't believe in like catholic though i mean there's really like nice catholic people out there who do great stuff but personally for me it doesn't really work i just believe in like spirituality right yeah also i just feel like it's so dumb like why are all these religions like hating each other like we're all just trying to find spirituality and the same thing and like yet we decide like if you're this religion you're going

to hell like in the catholic religion if you're not a catholic you're going to hell yeah that is so sad yeah especially for me because i'm going but i mean i'm like why but every religion is kind of snobby like jewish people are just like oh if the mother's not jewish then your child's not jewish and you're not whatever so it's like every religion has this weird snobbery around their own way of seeing God and it's just like why can't we be more open-minded be like great you're another religion that's what works for you that's fantastic you're Muslim that's fantastic like whatever connects you to like love just don't hurt me yeah I just don't don't kill people killing people's terrible yeah and a lot of religions have done it they've all done it

I know it's like somebody said more people have been killed in the name of God than in Satan sure you know it's like everyone's

killing each other and being like I'm on God's side right right but what if we're like all just struggling along trying to find spirituality and like there's really

no difference trying to find a point you know what do we do with this amazing self-awareness you know what do we do

with this knowledge of our own death how do we you know make it okay what do you know what do we do with this knowledge of our own death how do we you know make it okay what do you do i don't what do i do yeah comedy try not to think about it yeah how do we know death is bad like how do you not know that maybe death is great well i'm look uh you do know it's you know something's over and you might not know anything at all yeah you know like you know, I think that's really the scariest thing and why people have been so elaborate about it

is that, you know, what does life mean and what if you die and there's nothing? Yeah. What if you die and actually you're happier than when you were alive? Why, do you, oh, you think that, like, you're going to die and all of a sudden you'd be like, oh, thank God.

No, but I'm just saying we don't know, so why assume the worst? Well, what's the worst? Nothing. Hell is the worst. Hell is the worst. Hell is the worst, yeah. Nothing's not so bad. Yeah, nothing's not that bad.

If consciousness ends, you know, because like, you know, sometimes when I think about death, I'm like, well, what is going to happen with all these books? And it's sort of like- Oh, my God, yeah, you have a lot of cool books. But like, who cares? I'm not going to know. Yeah.

Death is the most vulnerable place in the world to be because you can't defend yourself anymore. Yeah. I think men are more worried about death than women. Are they? Yeah. Maybe because you have more feelings of control.

You're more, I don't know, as a woman, I'm just like, okay, I'm going to die. I don't know what's going to happen. Yeah. It's scary. I'm kind of there. I just don't, I don't, I want to be. It's more scary to not live life and to be miserable in life and let life go by and not appreciate it and not be grateful.

Try to make a good goal. I'm more worried about that because sometimes I feel like I have a good life, but then I can beat the shit out of myself and think it's terrible when in reality I have like a fantastic life. I think that's more tragic. Well, yeah. It's not to just enjoy the day. Yeah.

I get a little of that too. Yeah. So wait, let's talk. We didn't talk about Boogie Nights because you were so good in that that like whenever I see that actor that played that guy that that you beat the shit out of him. Oh, yeah? I'm like, wow, his face healed up good. That's so funny.

That was fun, actually. That was so fun. Well, I mean, in terms of like- Because you interviewed Paul, right? I got to listen to that one. I did a while back. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, it was good because he doesn't do much of that.

He doesn't do a lot of interviews. Right. Yeah. of that he doesn't like i was so he doesn't do a lot of interviews right yeah and we did a long time for him and i did i did it a very specific way because i i had assumed from his work and from not knowing anything about him that he was some sort of dark brooding genius but he's just this goofy kid from the valley you know and i'm like that all comes out of you you know what i mean isn't he funny yeah totally yeah yeah so with boogie nights like how old were you when you did that like 21 20 i was like 26 oh so okay so you knew what was up i mean that was just my big break i think that

just helped me have a more have a career where people knew my name but no but in terms of porn and living in that world and being around that yeah i mean you know like at the time no one had really made a movie about porn. So it was sort of like, oh, is this going to be super exploitational or is this cool? I mean, I thought his writing was amazing and for me it was a massive break at that time.

But a lot of people were like, oh, you're making a movie about porn. Like I actually remember Adam Carolla being like, yeah, that sounds great. You know, it's so funny because I recently saw him. He's like, I'm so sorry I harassed you about Boogie Nights

when that turned out to be such a good movie. He apologized recently? No, it was maybe like 10 years ago. But after the fact, he was like, I remember I was like, you know, really giving you a hard time about making like a totally exploitive porno movie when it turned out to be like a good movie. It's interesting that he made an amends. That makes me like Adam. Actually, I'm doing another interview with him like in a week or two. All right. Good luck getting a word in.

Chris D'Elia is going to be there, so I'll just let him make jokes. I want to Chris. But you're doing that together? I think we're doing it together. I was likeElia's going to be there, so I'll just let him make jokes. I wanted Chris. You're doing that together? I think we're doing it together. I was like, oh, I want Chris to be there because he'll just be really funny and I can just sit there. I just show up. No, it'll be good.

It'll be good. And you'll have fun with Chris. I see Chris all the time. I know because you guys do a lot of like the comedy store, right? Yeah, I see him at the comedy store all the time. Bring him up, you know. It's so fun. Yeah, yeah.

I just love stand-up. I got really into watching stand-up comedy recently. I just love watching it. It's really into watching stand-up comedy recently I just love watching it because of because of working with Chris I think just because I don't know I really

because I just think I couldn't do it so I just love watching it who do you like watching do you go live well okay over the weekend

I was watching two dope queens have you been watching them no I haven't but I did their show they're cool like they're they have mostly women

and people of color and LGBT people and I don't know they were fun but i love so many people like yeah do you watch ali wong have you watched she's awesome i saw her special where she's pregnant i don't know hannibal burris hannibal's good chris i know whitney cummings a little bit she's cool yeah i mean i just admire i admire comedians a lot i'm like how do they get up on stage and talk about this stuff it's so personal and turn it into its humor do you want to try it i want to learn from them on it like how to do it in my life that's what i like how do i

take how did you bother me you know just how do i find the humor in like terrible things or embarrassing things or myself you know i think it's really cool and brave and what like i watched crashing like pete holmes sure yeah yeah on a day-to-day basis so what are you really dealing with that you know, that would make you need to do that? Like, you know, to actually have it pressing, sort of like, how do I stop this from happening? What do you mean?

Like, yeah, the thoughts. Oh, the thoughts. Oh, yeah. Any day. Like, actually, somebody said something the other day. I thought it was so poetic. He goes, I wake up every day with a storm in my brain. Yeah. I thought, I can relate to that. Like, sometimes I wake up with a storm in my brain. I'm like, how do I get these? For me, the storm in my brain i'm like how do i get these for me the worst time is a morning like i'm kind of depressed in the morning then the rest of the day i can get in like a better mood but yeah but i've been getting into writing so i write writing some more stuff and i try to like sometimes put stuff in my

writing yeah and try to like exercise it like do you just do general writing or you know well i wrote two new things one is called chosen family and it's about like a woman that has a full script yeah it's like about a woman who has a dysfunctional family and how it's sort of about how you know when you your family does things that bother you and then somehow you end up in that same dynamic with relationships but you're like i'm trying to avoid this how does this kind of like follow me around you know well that's sort of along the same lines of the self-parenting thing yes it's the same area because if you can self-parent yourself and hopefully you attract like a healthier dynamic but like say okay your family's really controlling and then you end up with a controlling boyfriend you're like why am i repeating this does that happen to you yes have you ever done that i i

get i i don't i don't i'm not attracted to control i'm get a little chaos i've had some you like chaos and drama. That seems to be it. My dad was very explosive, and my mom was kind of, I don't know what she is. But I do- See, I could ask you a lot of questions about this right now. Yeah? Yes.

Why, you just get done with something, or are you in something? No, no. I'm just interested in your parental dynamic. Oh, my dad was very- Your dad was explosive, and your mom- Erratic and a little bipolar my mom was like he had eating disorders and was uh yeah always a little wittier but i as time goes on so that's where you got your humor i think so but i always like i always let her off the hook for some reason

but i think she's fully on the hook she's gotten a lot we women are crazy it's like okay it's hard to be a woman and you're looking at these ads and you're i don't know a single woman that is not somewhat neurotic about something about her appearance. But, you know, you have to let it go, obviously. Well, you deal with that in the movie too. And I think that that's part of this reckoning is, you know, acceptance of bodies. Why are we putting this like, yeah. Yeah. And trying to do that more. this weird ideal of like a 16 year old model. Do you know what I mean? And it's like, we have to unplug ourselves from the culture and say, I think I look good. I look great. And I'm going to feel great about myself and I'm not going to listen to whatever. Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. So how do you see this new phase in your career? I mean, do you feel when you look back at your career? Cause I mean, you've done a lot of stuff. You've been in a lot of big movies. You've had a lot of shots. Yeah. I've been lucky to work. Yeah. You work a lot of stuff you've been in a lot of big movies you've had a lot of shots um yeah

i've been lucky to work yeah you work a lot now what made you all of a sudden sort of like right direct like was there a moment where you're like uh you know i'm um uh you know i gotta take care of myself in another way well i think okay on one level like as an actress you're like i really hope like a guy hires me for the part of my lifetime that will help me express my creative potential. But you're like, maybe he's not going to. So I better hire myself. And you're like, maybe a man doesn't want to tell the same story that I want to tell. And then I guess you just think I want to tell a story about something that means something to me and share this sort of journey I went on that I think is interesting.

Whether or not it's, you know, I just want to like what you were saying. I was listening to one of your things where you said, you just have to get up every day, work on your craft, do the best you can. It's like, sometimes it's just fun making things. Yeah. And it's more fun making something that's like says something you want to say. And that you have control over. It's fun.

Even though it's much more scary and stressful. It's also like, okay, I want women and men. I hope men can feel good and watching the movie too, but I want them to leave and be like fucking hot and I can have whatever I want and I feel great about myself and I love my girlfriends I love life and like my dreams can come true I don't know I want I feel like I watch a lot of depressing movies

I feel like women's roles in movies can a lot of times we're like the supporting character that like someone's trying to kill us someone's stabbing us some guys trying to save us it's just like we're not that empowered in most movies and I'm just sick of watching those movies I want to watch a movie with like a heroine i can relate to that is empowered that i can feel happy about yeah yeah yeah and so like when now this is your first directing first time first time and first time writing first time writing so who did you

did you did you lean on people? Yeah, I have this friend. His name's Michael Nichols. He's a huge fan of your podcast, actually. He was like, you got to get on that podcast. It's the best one. And so my friend Michael Nichols and Julia, his wife, they, I wrote, okay, I was going through a breakup. So I started, I kind of started writing the script.

How long were you with the guy? I was with him for like a year. But I started writing the script based on this group of friends I was hanging around with. And then I went through this breakup and I was feeling sad so I'm like how can I write about the stuff that makes me sad and just try to make myself laugh and perspective so I was doing that I just kind of wrote it to crack myself up and I gave it to him and he was just very encouraging and he was just like you should keep writing and then he was like you know you should direct this

because I was like maybe I'll get a director because I had worked developing projects for 10 years before trying to make movies about women. I tried to make the Triangle Factory Fire story. I tried to make this, like, romantic sex comedy about this woman who's insecure that no guy will ever have sex with her. As a producer and actress. And people kept saying to me, like, nobody cares about women's stories if you want to get a movie made right about a man. And I was just like, what? And it was so frustrating, you know?

Yeah. And then I think I wrote this about my frustrations with relationships my frustrations with hollywood trying to make movies about women when people were just telling me that nobody cared and they were just like unless you're one of three women like you're not gonna like there's the three biggest movie stars and they get to do that but other than that all the rest of the women it's like you can be the supporting role if you can get you know right a big movie star to play his wife or something yeah right yeah? Yeah, right. Yeah. So you just took it into your own hands. So I was just like, I'm just going to write this down about my frustrations. And I'm like, well, maybe I could make this for not a huge budget.

And then we found this financiers, my friend, Michael, who loves your podcast, found these financiers, and then they basically ended up not having the money. So we had to completely fold after we had hired the whole crew and cast the whole movie, completely fold. And then we found another financier. His name bill scheinberg and he's amazing and um he's a part of this hollywood family like sid scheinberg and lorraine scheinberg and um and he just really supported us and so then luckily and weirdly this movie's coming out right now when people care about women's issues where maybe if we happened the year earlier we would have come out at a time where maybe nobody would be as interested in this subject.

Yeah. So the timing's good. The timing's good. And now when you do, like it is a comedy and comedy is not easy. And you know, did you show the script to funny people?

Yeah, I did. Like who? I got help. Well, Molly has a friend, Steve Korn. I don't know if you know him. He read it and he gave me some things Molly who? Shannon?

Molly Shannon she's in it and she you know and then I just I let a lot of the actors improv I just say look if you come up with something

just try it out you know and then if it doesn't work I'll tell you not to do it so I mean then you have like Thomas Lennon and you're like

he's like I love you somewhat he's like I care about you deeply without loving you he comes up with these lines and you're like I care about you deeply

without loving you you know when someone is like giving you this up with these lines and you're like i care about you deeply without you know when someone is like giving this half-hearted love yeah and you're like this is so hilarious like he came up with so many funny things yeah he was good he's just like you look horrible let me ask you about like because i'm dating a painter and you know we notice that that there's a lot of artists and they're you're the conception of them was you know not great. Well, I mean, to be honest, okay, there was a guy like that character, but he actually was not an artist. So I took a boyfriend I had who was an artist and combined him with this other boyfriend who did a lot of drugs.

Oh, okay. Yeah, the light artist. So I'm not trying to diss artists, but I'm just saying he had a free-spirited lifestyle that wasn't like a nine-to-five guy. Sure, sure. And what about Thomas Lennon's character? Was that based on something? Oh, that's right.

Because he's like out of nowhere, you're like, oh, he's a big painter. I mean, to be honest, I have a bunch of friends and different, you know, a lot of stuff is either taken from like friends or like me. I combined a lot of people, you know, like me or different experienced friends I've had. Yeah, friends, boyfriends, ex-husbands, husbands. You know, I have a lot of, I have one friend. Have you been married? I've never been married. But I have girlfriends and they'll obsess on a guy, boyfriends, ex-husbands, husbands. You know, I have a lot of, I have one friend. Have you been married? I've never been married.

But I have girlfriends and they'll obsess on a guy, you know, and when you're watching from a distance, you're like, why are you obsessed on him? Like, he didn't really treat you that great. Like, you know, somebody, you know, why are you? And so I told the story about Angela's character because of that. Oh, yeah. She's obsessed with her ex-husband. Right.

Yeah. And that happens. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I thought they were, you know, your story and her story. You know, I can completely, you know, relate to the other side of those. Yeah. And men can relate to it, you know. Sure. Yeah. And the and the one that seemed younger. Yes. That what's her name? Stephanie Beatrice. Yeah. That that relationship seemed like something from when I was younger. That's the thing. I feel like I've been in that relationship. I have friends where you're just like, I never asked for what I wanted because I was too afraid. That's so sad. You know, you're just like, let's just have the unconventional relationship where we don't commit and we're not monogamous because we're doing this

new thing. And I have a friend that did that. And then the guy ended up getting married and she was like, but, but. Well, what do you think that is? Like they're not asking for what you want because it'd be threatening or they take it as an insult or is it just, you know, a program in your brain? Because I know that like as the guy on the other side of that at different points in my life, it's very hard for people to hear things like that without thinking like, well, I don't do it right. That's funny.

I think like, I don't know. I think, okay. I think as women, we're sort of overly programmed like to take care of everyone so sometimes and it doesn't really help because you're not sometimes honest with the other person like this is what i want yeah like really that character wanted to say to him you know if you don't want to date me monogamously let's break up do you know but in reality she's like i'll just hang in there hoping it's like looking at a guy as a project or looking at his potential like maybe i can change him like he's got all this great potential if i just hang around acting great he'll just he'll

give me everything i want eventually but is that a conscious thought or just in behavior that's ingrained do you know what i mean like because it seems like do people really you know what i did it i you know it's a stupid question yeah you've done it right i did once and it kind of fucked me up it's terrible the codependency thing it's codependent yeah it's basically codependency yeah but i i didn't i didn't think i had that really and then i went through a relationship where i'm like what the fuck like i'm just doing everything i could to make this woman i mean a psychologist would say maybe you're like repeating your parental dynamic where your parent was never really there for you and if you try to get them you it's it's so it's so you want to get that person who's not there for you to be there for you and you it just feels like when you were a kid what you did with

your family so it feels there's something about it that feels delicious and sure finally i'll get this love that i never had yeah i wonder if that was it with i and that that was part of it but i just ultimately it comes down to like i see something in you that i believe is there and you're not locking into it. So I'm going to try to control you into becoming that thing that I have projected onto you. Yeah, exactly. So you can fulfill my fantasy and expectations. Or just not make me nuts and sad.

I know. Because there's a little bit you can have of that in a healthy relationship. That's funny. That's my fantasy. Just don't make me nuts and sad. I know. I know. so what about you in relationships are you good in them or not really i'm trying yeah this one's better because it's not uh drama filled you know i went through some you know some heartbreak and some insanity you know after post heartbreak and i don't think i've really kind of recovered from it that's hard hard. Like I'm a little cynical, a little closed up.

You? Kind of like your character on Glow. A little bit, yeah, a little bit. That wasn't a big stretch. But what about you? I guess I sort of, well, okay, this is what makes me feel good about relationships. I just think, what if it's totally out of our control?

And that it's not about, oh, try to be a good person and have a, it's just like, okay, what if I just turn this over? It's out of my control. It'll happen or it won't. And I'm just going to enjoy my life day to day. How's that go? Some people say like, your relationship has its own higher power. So it's kind of like, I mean, look, it's hard.

Because normally I go, okay, I really, you know, you want to try so hard to have some love that you want, you know, but then sometimes it just doesn't happen i don't i'm not great with being loved i'm not great with it yeah that doesn't feel quite right yeah yeah you well i mean whatever they would say it's because you don't love yourself so if you love yourself what about you though i mean i'm good at like i'm good at it for like a year to two years and then I'm not as good at it in the past. What happens? What turns? No, I think,

I don't know if it's just a compatibility question where it's like, okay, there are these great people, but maybe we're not totally compatible. Do they get annoying or. Different things. Sometimes it's me. Sometimes it's them.

Some guys don't want to date an actress who's like doing sex scenes in movies. They're just like, I don't want that, you know, or I don't know. It's just, you think you can get along with a person of a certain personality.

That's a deal breaker, huh? I mean, some guys just cannot deal with that. They're just like not excited about it. Even if it's just kissing? Even if it's just, I don't know. And you usually,

you do a lot of sex scenes. You have. I have in the past. Yeah, I don't know. It's like, well, that's like what a lot of actresses

have to do. You know? It's not like, or whatever. It's. And now you did it to yourself. I did it to and now you did it to yourself i did it to myself i did it to myself i guess because i'm just i'm interested in sexuality yeah and it's interesting yeah yeah it is right it is so i just did it from a female point of view that's you oh no i think that's you really oh okay sorry it's my it's a guy i want to give me guitar lessons oh wow so you play the guitar i do i do but i'm sort of are you good i'm good yeah but like i'm stuck okay because you're on the

thing right there with the guitar so yeah yeah no i play guitar i'm pretty good but like i just don't want to do i want to next level it okay i want to learn some things okay cool and maybe i will that's awesome i feel like such a dork at 54 i'm like like, I'm going to take guitar lessons. I feel like do it. I mean, why should we stop ourselves from having fun? Just because it was like, okay, once you reach a certain age, you cannot do anything fun anymore. No, but in my brain, it's sort of like, for what? Like, am I going to start a band? For fun.

Yeah. Okay. Honestly, if you started a band, people would probably listen and go see it. Yeah. But then you're that guy. You're the guy like, yeah, he's a comedian. I guess he's doing a band thing. No, that's what we need.

Another 55 year old dude with a band. That's funny. All right, I'll talk to you later. Nice talking to you. Yeah, this is fun. Okay, go see the movie. Watch it somewhere. It seems like you can watch it in your home.

Half Magic, written, directed, and stars Heather Graham. That was pleasant. It was nice to get to know her a little bit. What can I tell you? I hooked up. I'm about to clean out my pedals. I'm about to move them with everything else, so I hooked up a pedal or two here,

and I'll play some guitar in the way the pedals make it. Anyways, these pedals make it. You know what I'm saying? All right. guitar solo Thank you. Boomer lives! Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5pm in Rock City at torontorock.com. Calgary is an opportunity-rich city home to innovators, dreamers, disruptors, and problem solvers. The city's visionaries are turning heads around the Thank you.