WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 894 - Bill Janovitz / Danny Lobell

Episode Date: February 28, 2018

When Marc was a young comic living in Boston, Buffalo Tom was one of his favorite bands. Buffalo Tom frontman Bill Janovitz joins Marc in the garage to talk about the band's rise from the pre-Nirvana days of indie rock to a point where huge mainstream success remained just out of reach. What happened after that? Also, Marc's buddy Danny Lobell returns to talk about turning his life and standup routines into a comic book in the style of one of his heroes, Harvey Pekar. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talked to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gate! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking

ears what the fucksters what the fuck uh tarians how's that tarians on. How's it going? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome to it. How's everybody doing? As maybe you can tell in my voice, I'm feeling a bit better. I'm not 100%, but I don't know if I ever am anymore. Is that possible? Like, I don't feel, it had moved into my guts. Now, I don't want to get graphic.

I don't want to be TMI guy, but, uh, there were problems, man. Like I, I didn't know, like I, there was a lot going on. That's, I'm going to leave it at that. There was, it started off in the head, then moved to the chest a little. Then it just, it found a home in my, uh, lower GI. Let's just put it there. I don't know where it really was, but yeah,

I, it was, you know, it was a problem, but I'm feeling better. My point, what was my point? The point I was trying to make was that I wake up and I'm,

I still feel kind of shitty, but then I got to think back before I had the sickness. And I, that's most of the time, like I wake up and I'm like, not great. Is this the way it's going to be? I don't feel well rested. I'm a little dizzy uh my will to to to move through the day is not great but i'm up early so so i can think about that stuff a lot why am i not doing more with my life

why am i not maybe i should switch back to. Maybe this tea is very unsatisfying. Maybe this cat food is not right for any of us if it has fish in it because they're going to throw it up on the couch. And then I got to deal with that smell on top of other things. That's become a big concern. Today on the show, I've got two guests. I talked to Danny Lobel. Danny Lobel, the comedian. he's got a new record out and he's a he's a mensch a true mensch this lobell kid i've known him a long time uh he's uh he's

got a comic out called fair enough it was always his dream to write him and illustrate it he didn't illustrate it but he wrote it fair enough true stories from the life of comedian danny lobell and he's got the podcast, Modern Day Philosophers. He's got a new record out, a new CD, The Nicest Boy in Barcelona, with a riff on the Miles Davis Sketches in Spain cover. But LaBelle, you know, he had a radio show interviewing comics long before I had WTF. And he's a gem, this kid. He's a kid who's nice to old people.

He likes hanging out with the old guys. He was a friend of Shelly Berman's. He's a good kid. He's going to be on. Bill Janovitz from Buffalo Tom is here, and Buffalo Tom is one of my favorite bands. I love Buffalo Tom. I love that band.

I love that band, and they always make me feel better. And here's the thing about bill. I never really saw Buffalo Tom back in the day. We were sort of contemporaries back when I was in Boston, but I don't think I ever went to see them. And when I got there, they're the record I got was,

was bird brain. And that record just blew my mind. It's already living in New York in the late eighties, but they had an album before that self-titled that i think i talked to jay mascus about because he produced it but that's got sunflower suit and the bus the bus that song kills me i don't know there's just something about the way that guy writes music and he's here and and i've just been wondering what he's been doing they put a new record out but i it was one of those like i didn't know how it was going to go because i didn't know like i haven't heard from him and i'm like

in terms of music and i'm like what's he been doing is he okay and so it's sort of like i try to kind of ease into that like what are you doing to make a living you know i mean buffalo tom was great but what do you know what's been happening? It wasn't negative. It's not negative. It's all good. It's great. I'm going to go see them this Saturday, I think. Anyway, here's what happened. This is what we're building up to.

This is the big payoff. So I'm still sick, right? But I'd already put in for spots. And I was actually more sick than I wanted to be. And I put in some i knew like i went to the bathroom before i left for the comedy store which is about a 34 minute drive from my house my new house over well i don't give too much away but that i don't it's you know not a lot of options if something bad but what my point was is that

i said to myself look i'll do the spot if i don't shit my pants in my car that was the deal i made with myself is that i'll do my comedy if i don't shit my pants in my car on the way over. It was a high possibility. And there's not even great restrooms at the comedy store for the help. Well, it's the same restrooms for everybody. But so needless to say, not only did I not shit my pants

on the way over to the comedy store, but I did a pretty good set for somebody that was about to shit their pants. I just, sometimes it's what I need. It's just what I need to really show up. Is the looming possibility of something horrible happening. In this case, literally horrible. Not just a mental thing like I could have shit my pants on stage.

I would have liked somebody to just tape my face in that moment where I knew it was happening. Because I'd like to save that face to close all of my shows with. Because that, how is that not the funniest face ever? What's going on? Oh, my God. He's shitting his pants. Yep, I got blue. We did some shit jokes.

So Danny LaBelle is a very sweet guy, very funny guy, thoughtful guy, Jewish guy, married guy. And I say those things because he's really Jew-y. He's all in. Like he brought me some kosher baked goods when he got here. They're okay. That's the thing about kosher food.

It's like, how was it? It was okay. I don't think it was as good as a French bakery. I don't think the almond croissants from the kosher joint are as good as the actual French bakery. But you know, you got to do what you got to do, right? You don't want to mix those things. God forbid the cheese

touches the meat. Huh? Anyway, not being ungrateful, I ate them either way. I ate the kosher croissants. They weren't flaky enough though they weren't they weren't they weren't like flaky like you you want a really great croissant to be but

hey can't you know you gotta keep the dairy separate so you know you you take you know you take what you get hey at least they're doing it right. Back in the day, kosher croissant, what was that? We just assumed the French didn't like Jews of any kind. Where'd that come from? Anyway, Danny LaBelle, he's got a comic book out called Fair Enough, True Stories from the Life of Comedian Danny LaBelle. You can get that at fairenoughcomic.com. He's got his podcast, Modern Day Philosophers, and he's got his new album called The Nicest

Boy in Barcelona. Get that on iTunes. And now you're going to hear me talk to the lovely Danny LaBelle. Almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region.

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A new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Oh. So I read the comic book or the rough draft of it, and it's basically, it almost is Picard-esque. And you did all the artwork as well. No, Amy Hayes did the, Amy Hayes did the artwork. But you do paintings. You just brought me a painting of me.

Yes, I do. as well no amy hayes did the amy hayes did the artwork you do paintings you just brought me a painting of me yes i i do but the amount of time and commitment to make a comic book to the level that i want it to be i felt like i should leave it in the hands of an expert comic book illustrator and i have this guy uh josh josh meatbag meat is doing the second one out of minneapolis and eventually i'll do one i'll illustrate one as well. But it's hard to balance everything and put out a good product. So after years as a stand-up comic and an adept of Orthodox Jewish religion from Scottish roots, an interviewer of comedians, an amateur artist a a liker of old altacaca comedians a hanger-on to the saddest oldest of the comics yes now out of out of a seemingly hidden desire you you were making a comic book about your life

that's what i always wanted to do so i feel like i'm right now in the in the danny lobel a seemingly hidden desire, you were making a comic book about your life. That's what I always wanted to do. So I feel like I'm right now in the Danny Lobel Renaissance. Is that what it's called in the calendar? Yes. I'm doing everything I ever wanted to do. Yeah. I got a clarinet.

I started taking lessons. I always wanted to- How old are you? 34. Okay. I always wanted to play the clarinet Like Bichet I was So You never played anything before?

I played the violin when I was a kid So nothing for the whole life? No And you decided to take clarinet lessons? Yes How's it going? Great Really?

It brings me so much joy Have you ever seen me this happy Since you've known me? I'm I'm trying to read you You can read me inside and out. There's nothing to hide. I'm so happy.

Yeah. I'm doing everything I ever wanted to do. And talking about the interconnectivity and my loving of hanging on their comedians, I started going up to Mill Valley to see Mort Sahl. And then I wound up playing at the Throckmorton Theater, doing some stand-up there. And I had this painting that I brought you, a copy of this Bechet painting. Yeah. And I showed it to the woman who runs the Throckmorton, Lucy, and she goes, you should do an art exhibit.

I said, look, this is the first thing I painted in 20 years. I used to paint when I was a kid, but she goes, well, how much time do you need? I said, how many pieces do I need? She goes, 20. I said, all right, April. Now you're jamming out paintings. I've been doing paintings. I'm playing music.

I'm writing comic books. I'm painting all day. I'm doing charcoals. I started doing all the jazz musicians, Artie Shaw and Jimmy Noon and Benny Goodman and a bunch of comedians, you and Gilbert and Dave Chappelle. So I'm doing a gallery exhibit of comedians and jazz musicians that I love. Well, that's exciting. So, yeah.

And you came out with this record with the homage to Sketches of Spain as the cover. Yes. Yeah. When did you do it? Why is it called The Nicest Boy in Barcelona? So my family was originally from barcelona and uh they're kicked out in the inquisition yeah and so i wanted to go back

and do a record there so i went back to barcelona and i and i did a record there yeah so yeah for like a spanish audience it was like half catalan and half expats yeah and it was a crazy time because i recorded it. It came out now but I recorded it right after the Paris shootings. The night after. So nobody wanted to come out. Yeah. But I went to a Sephardic synagogue that afternoon

in Barcelona. Yeah. And half the synagogue turned up to see me. So it was like this cosmic thing. Like I would have had almost no crowd. I had a few Catalan people, a few expats and then half of a sephardic congregation from barcelona yeah so it's like what did you just told them you were playing yeah and they came how big how big the congregation seven people but it was a small good i'm glad they showed up for you. It's quite an achievement.

Yeah. I don't know, really, how many? Yeah, oh, the congregation in whole was like 20 people, but, you know, like seven of them showed up. Oh, boy, I thought it was big numbers. No, but I mean, it saved the show. Yeah, no, I'm dead serious. Seven people saved the show?

Yeah, it's a tiny little theater called the Tinta Roja. How many people does it seat? Probably 40. And we... You're really dire straits there. Yeah. But no, but it was going to be like... The first time I went out and played Spain, it was like sold out crowds.

I went out with this guy. Steven Garland brought me out. Yeah. He ran the Barcelona International Comedy Music Film... I don't know, whatever. A lot of titles. There's a couple of those guys that run those rackets, huh? Yeah.

There was a guy that did a China run. Forget his name. I did it. Beijing and Hong Kong, I think. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Was that good? I don't know.

It was all right. I was... The shows were okay. It was interesting to be in China. Yeah. I can't say the shows were anything monumental. Okay. Yeah.

Well, yeah, the first time I went, I was like, wow, I got to do a record here because it was packed. And then the second time. This time? This time when I go out with recording people and everything, there's a huge terror attack the night before and nobody wants to leave their house. So I had one shot at it and I said, you know what? I'll do it with a light crowd. And it still came out great. It's just, it's a light crowd.

Yeah. But you did well with the light crowd. I think so. And you can identify everybody's single laugh. Yeah. Every one of those 40 people. They're all on the record. Yeah.

And they can hear themselves laughing. Well, that's good. So this just came out. Yeah. All right. Well, that's that. How's your wife doing? She's good. She just came out yeah all right well that's that how's your wife doing she's good she's doing a lot of writing uh she she writes uh you know non-funny stuff

articles yeah different on all kinds of how she did how she's still like being jewish yeah she's still in yeah we i think we've never been more happy with the, you know, we found a Sephardic congregation in Los Angeles that we feel like at home in. Uh-huh. And it's great. It's got, you know, I grew up in a Moroccan synagogue. So all the tunes that I grew up with are these Moroccan tunes, Ladino tunes. And so, like, it's hard to find it.

And when you do find it, it kind of excites something in you from your childhood. You recognize the melodies. Yeah. So just that alone... Is that primarily what makes it different, a Sephardic congregation? I mean, are these people from mostly America or are they people...

No, it's mostly... You have a mix of... Here in L.A., you mostly get Iranians. Yeah. Persians. Yeah. Persian Jews. Yeah. Beverly Hills, baby.

Beverly Hills. But you get some Iraqis, you get some Turks and some Moroccans and Israelis. It's just a nice eclectic mix of accents and stuff. And I find it's just, for me, it's more fun. It's a more fun, because it's what I grew up in. Well, yeah, certainly it's probably better than your sort of run-of-the-mill, middle to upper middle class, orthodox congregation. Yeah, there's something about that that, you know, I'm sure it's great for a lot of people. Is it orthodox?

Yeah, it's orthodox. But insofar as you don't even have orthodox, it's everything. You have people who are all different levels of observance, and they all get together. Yeah. And they just, which I love about it. There's like less segregation in terms of where you stand. There's no label for it.

Colorful yarmulkes? Yeah, colorful yarmulkes, round Torahs. And show-off italicists? No show-off italicists. No show-off italicists. Plain white, mostly. Oh, really? No one's coming back from Israel with the colored fringe? No, I think that's more like the...

I find conservative congregations, they go crazy with their talis. That's true. It's like they have talis flair or something. That's right. Yeah, no, yeah. They come back with... But the yarmulkes, are they the big ones?

The kind that look like hats? Yeah. But they're beaded or woven? Woven, yeah. I have a bunch of those. You do? Yeah. You're wearing a Ralph Lauren yarmulke now.

Yeah. This is the most comfortable hat. It's like this floppy kind of thing. Do you wear your yarmulke out? Usually only on Shabbat. Not during the week. No? Why not? I don't know, just not my custom.

So you make up the rules for your Orthodox practice? Well, again, it's like Sephardim, not all Sephardim wear yarmulkes all the time. But it was always Sephardim with you, or was it? Yeah. All right. But when my wife converted, she converted not with Sephardim, and like, you know, in an Ashkenazi kind of thing. I went along, but I didn't feel connected in that way. So now she's coming around to Sephardim? No, she loves it. It's a party.

So she was more Jewish than you at one point? Probably still. There's a purity to it because they come in without the baggage you know there's no sure and they they they really want to learn it and appreciate it and you know if they're if they're in it for the the right reasons they gotta you know you gotta lock it in with all the belief yeah she brought me back into it i was i was had a lot of hang-ups and. I'm glad I'm rid of them all, you know? Because you got brought up in the old school Ashkenazi, but not Lubavitch, though. Not Lubavitch.

No. Just below that. Pre-Lubavitch. Like, that's the next level. You didn't go full Lubavitch. Half Lubav. Half Lubav. All above. Half above. So, all right.

So you got the comic and this is a life's work. And this is just the first book of you, you know, talking about you making a comic. Right. And your relationship with Harvey Pekar. And then like it ends with you sort of starting to interview people. Right. Yeah. And so this is going to be an ongoing thing of your journeys in life from that

period which is what a decade ago about a decade ago yeah maybe 14 years ago so you got 14 years of stories that you're going to embark on with the comics right right so yeah i'm going to put out for a year but they're just going to they're going to jump around in time what was the magazine you put out the comical oh yeah i remember yeah we had you on the cover. Yeah. I remember I had a big fight with one of the sponsors about it. Oh really? People didn't know who you were yet. Yeah, they barely know now. Three people that knew you were a genius and I was like

I'm putting Mark on the cover and he goes pick anybody more of a profile than Mark. Just give me somebody because he was sponsoring the magazine. He goes no one's going to pick it up if they don't. He goes look look, I like Marc Maron. He's funny, but you don't understand the magazine business clearly. You can't just put who you like on the cover.

I'm like, I'm putting them on the cover. Well, thanks for going to bat for me. That was my, yeah. The cover of the comical. I feel like it's all cosmic, you know, like here I am now. I'm like, you're. Again. Yeah.

With harissa sauce. Here you are again with croissants and harissa sauce and a CD and a fucking comic book and everything. But that's got to be karma, right? That's got to be something karmic about that. Yeah, I owed it to you because of the comical. But you didn't know about the comical. This is the first time I ever told you.

No, what do you mean? I was on the cover of someone. I must have seen it. I don't remember that well. But you didn't know that I went to bat for you. No, thank God. Yeah, I don't know. I wouldn't want to hurt you at the time.

The life changer. Sorry, buddy. I was going to put you on the cover of the magazine no one buys, but then the guy who was giving me money said, less people will buy it and no one's buying it now but i kept you on there yeah and i didn't lose the sponsor yeah that was my big my big stand oh thanks buddy i'm glad to be part of that and then yeah this is full circle yeah now i'm giving it i'm giving it, I'm giving it back. That's what I'm saying. It's karmic.

So what about, are you going to have kids or what? I hope, I hope so. You just seem like the guy who's going to have kids. I want to have kids. Oh, you're trying? Not yet, but I want to. You know how to do it, right? Yeah.

You want to coach me? No, I just want to make sure you know what you're doing. Yeah, yeah. I want to make sure you know what you're doing. Yeah, yeah. I want to. Yeah. In the near future. I'm just trying to like... Get all your ducks in a row?

Yeah. I feel like it's happening, you know. Yeah. Are you doing a lot of stand-up? Not as much as I was. I'm doing... I think we're doing a show together this week at the comedy store oh yeah on thursday night oh right that's true for skyler yeah yeah but uh i haven't been doing

as much i started doing one-man shows and i've been oh yeah i did edinburgh last summer oh that's right i remember talking to you yeah and that went really well yeah and so i'm doing it again this summer and what's your wife she's writing your wife? She's writing for a living? She's writing for a living. That's great. Yeah. And I just do this. I do the podcast, the Modern Day Philosophers podcast where we talk about philosophers.

Yeah, we did that once. Yeah. And that's still going strong? Going strong. Well, good. Just did one with George Wallace. Oh, yeah? Yeah.

How was that? Oh, fun. That guy is good energy yeah oh man he's big boy yeah he's he's like nine feet tall that guy yeah he's he's he's towering over you yeah but like you know just jovial fun warm guy is he still in vegas he's in vegas yeah well he says he's gonna get out of vegas now he's gonna start doing more stuff? Well, he says he's going to get out of Vegas now. He's going to start doing more stuff. He ended his Vegas run. He was telling me on the podcast he's starting to do some television hosting and all kinds of other things.

He's in Vegas a long time. Yeah. Wow. One of the things we talked about was his whole dream in life was to be in Vegas. And then he accomplished it. And then he's like, what do I do now? Really? That was the whole dream? Yeah.

My dream is to never go there. I never, I couldn't understand that dream either. Never have to go to Vegas is my dream. Like people are like you play Vegas? I'm like why? Yeah. Why? Right.

It must be like some like romance to like the you know the days of like Don Rickles and Jerry Lewis there that he probably grew up with. But I think that people are more business-minded. If you can get one of those residencies, you got a year on the books for a set amount of money. You got a contract. I think that's appealing to some cats. Yeah, probably. Yeah, man. You're doing, what, three, four shows a week they put you up

you know you can eat at the hotel or whatever it's starting to sound depressing yeah it is it was it was depressing you know right at the beginning that you know you know that you want to be secure in your in the for the year but i just i remember one time I used to work at a place in a hotel. That fucking catch in Princeton. Oh. Do you remember that place? Do I? Why do I think I do? I think I was there once.

I believe it was in a hotel. Yeah, it was definitely in a hotel. Yeah. Was I there with Ralphie? I used to tour with Ralphie, and I went to a lot of these places. It's a little place. Ralphie Mae? Yeah, maybe it wasn't that places. It's a little place. Ralphie May? Yeah, maybe it wasn't that.

It was a long time ago. I'm thinking of something. Long time ago, but I remember it was like you had to eat at the employee's lounge, the employee's restaurant downstairs, or you had a buffet for the people that worked at the hotel. It was depressing. Yeah. Sitting there in that weird subterranean lunchroom,

and you stayed at the hotel where the club was at. There was a Hyatt in Princeton. Yeah, that's never fun. It wasn't fun, dude. There's a lot of moments that are not necessarily fun. But you know, you look back at it and you're like, that was a good old day. Yeah.

Now I'm looking back at them, I'm like, is there a comic book there? I can maybe make a... A shit gig comic book? That'd be a great comic book. Yeah. Hell gigs? I'm writing like all the stories of being a stand-up in a comic book, you know?

Just the life of... My life as a stand-up. All right. So let's wrap it up. When's the first one come out? March 1st. And then what year? Four a year.

Four a year. Four a year. And the record, Danny LaBelle, the nicest boy in Barcelona, performed for 38 people the day after a terrorist attack and seven Sephardim. I have a seven Sephardim guarantee on all my... That's happening. Yeah.

But the comic book's got some nice Harvey P. Carr stuff and that's a sweet little relationship you got with that guy he kicked off everything for me because i was you know i was very insecure um i feel like i'm i'm the most secure i've ever been now but i was very insecure and i was scared and i i had very low ambitions yeah and then i saw this movie american splendor and i was like oh this guy reminds me of me yeah and he did something with his life like he's he's got a movie made about him yeah and and like it brought back i'm like oh that's what i always wanted to do what i used to make comic books when i was a kid and this guy does it as an adult i could do it you know and

how'd you call him he was in the phone book because because in the movie he's he had this opening scene about how happy he was to be in the phone book it meant he was somebody to see his name and print in the phone book and i thought maybe he's still in the phone book and i i called him expecting that it was a stupid crazy idea yeah and then his voice answered the phone burpee picar on the other line and i immediately like lost my voice to nervousness i was so nervous that it actually worked yeah and um and then he got me talking and i got more comfortable i remember like my heart was beating through my chest i'm like oh my god like well i wasn't planning for him to actually pick up yeah yeah yeah that's hilarious and then and then uh i made this stupid uh announcement to him on the phone because i said i want to get my

writing published and and nobody wants to publish it. I'm starting out stand-up comic and I submitted some places and I don't even hear rejections. I don't hear anything. I said, I wish I could do what you do and just put it on myself. And he just goes, you can. And that just shook my brain when he's, I was like, wait a minute, I can? He goes, yeah, just figure it out. Find a way and do it.

And then I said, okay, I was like, wait a minute, I can? He goes, yeah, just figure it out. Find a way and do it. And then I said, okay, I will. And then I hung up and I'm like, well, I can never call this guy again if I don't. Yeah. So, because then I just look like a liar. So that just forced me to make that magazine that you were on the cover of. I just needed to make something so I could keep calling him and have a friendship. And I was just like, you know, the guy was a hero to

me. Yeah. And then you don't want to spoil it because it comes sort of full circle. It's kind of cute in a mystical way. All right, buddy. Well, I'm glad you're doing well. Yeah. Thanks so much for having me back on. Great to see you.

Thanks for the pastries. Oh, yeah. There you go. And tell me when you're having a kid. Oh, yeah, I will. Yeah. I'll invite you. We'll do a podcast about it.

While she's in labor all right buddy all right so you you got the deal that's danny thank you danny for the croissants the kosher croissants i feel like i was rude and you probably listen i'm ungrateful i get straight with god that's what i gotta do as i said before danny's you know you get the comic book uh fair enough comic.com you can get modern day philosophers is a podcast on itunes and his new album the nicest boy in barcelona on itunes as well a lot going on that kid anyway so like i said before um you know bill janowitz i love buffalo tom i haven't seen him i've never met him but i don't know you know what he's been doing and i was i was nervous about that i was just nervous because it was like one of those things

where it's sort of like what is everything okay what have you been what have you been up to but they got a new buffalo tom record out which is nice. And it's called Quiet and Peace. It's out tomorrow. I believe they're going to be at the Terragram Ballroom here in L.A. this Saturday performing all of Let Me Come Over, I believe, all the way through, two shows. I don't know what the ticket situation is, but I know that i'm supposed to go

probably the early one before i do comedy and he's here i'm a big fan of the band i'm just been curious what he's been up to and how life is for uh for bill so this is me and bill janowitz you have the stones books right let me see i i don't have the 33 books, right? Let me see. I don't have the 33 and a third one. There you go. I brought that for you. The Rocks Off is the other one.

Yeah, that was your big book on the Stones. Yeah, and Blockbuster. But what compelled you? I mean, did it start with the writing on exile and this 33 and a third? They asked me to write a 33 and a third, i was going to write one about class clown but i just like i find the the exercise of writing uh so painstaking and relentless for the uh for the actual payoff that i i i don't want to do it anymore yeah yeah i'm sort of in that state right now thinking about another project you Like what?

Like what's the next project? Yeah. I don't even want to kind of. More music writing? Yeah, yeah, more music writing. So it's trying to find that kind of thing you want to dedicate yourself to. And it's like, is it going to be compelling for me? Is it going to be commercial enough? It takes so much time.

Yeah. So you're worried about selling a book. Not selling so much as like, I got other things i got the band i got yeah i got a family got a day job i got blah blah so it's like what am i i mean that really the last one took like you know i did it in an intense period of time what the the rocks off yeah and what was he what was the angle that i got it but like i like i I have hardly any time to read. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean, I started with this one

because I really did want to write on exile. I loved the idea of this 33 and 3 series. Yeah, yeah, it's great. They do a lot. Yeah, and this was the early-ish days, you know, like when you could still go, hey, I have this idea. Yeah, yeah.

Nobody's picked exile yet, you know? Right. But my friend Joe Pernice from the Pernice Brothersnice brothers yeah mountain boys yeah he did one and so what band were they in a band pernice brothers uh joe was in the scud mountain boys and the pernice brothers okay right right right yeah yeah yeah okay and joe still plays he plays with uh raymond from teenage fan club uh-huh he's up in toronto now right he and i went we went to umass amherst together and right uh so he had done one, so I said, hey.

What did he do? Which one? He did Meet His Murder and it was sort of a, well, it was a novella. Yeah, I can't, you know, it's like I can't, I've never locked into the Smiths.

I locked into them for sort of How Soon Is Now era. Yeah. Meet His Murder. Yeah. And the Hat Full of Hollows record, but after that, yeah, I mean the whole Morrissey solo thing,

I just don't know why people... I don't know where... It's as much of a comedy show as anything. But you're like around my age. Did I miss it? There seems to be a chunk of time where I just was not... Maybe I just wasn't paying attention to music. I don't know what happened.

Yeah. So that would have been what, like 84? As I was getting out of high school, I think that... Oh, so that was it. I seemed to push back on what was legitimately punk rock and fringe music. I don't know why. I'm similar. I mean, I was into sort of the earlier punk rock stuff, but not so much like Dead Kennedys

or then sort of the hardcore. And in Boston. So I moved to Boston when I was like 16 and hardcore was huge. Where'd you come from? I grew up on Long Island. You did? Yeah. What town?

Huntington. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Jewish guy? No, no. I even did a DNA test. I thought for sure some Jewishness would be there.

No, no Jewish. Wait. I grew up culturally half Irish, half Italian. The Janovitz is kind of a little red herring in the- Oh, yeah? Yeah.

Well, how'd that get in there? Janovitz. Yeah, we're trying to figure that out. It's Janovitz is kind of a little red herring in the- Oh, yeah? How'd that get in there? Janovitz. Yeah, we're trying to figure that out. It's Janovitz. So it's sort of a bastardized Eastern European thing. My father's grandfather came from somewhere. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

We heard Russia, but- That sounds right. Yeah. So you're Irish-Italian. Irish-Italian. My mother's Italian, yeah. Huntington's, is that an Italian-Irish town? Yeah. Just like a bar every corner and

the best pizza in the world. And you got big family? I'm the oldest of five. Five? Yeah. Catholic family? Yeah. Yeah. Full on. Yeah. Oldest of five. So you got a bunch of, like, how young's the youngest? The youngest is 15 years younger than me, so what am I, 51?

I'd only want to do the math. Wow. No kidding. Yeah. He's got kids of his own, though. You got kids, too? Yeah. Yeah.

I got an 18-year-old girl and a 13-year-old boy. No kidding. Yeah. So you got started at pretty, like, you know, around the right time. I was in my 30s. Yeah. 30s. All right.

So, like, because the first I remember Buffalo Tom, I, you know, it was, I got the first I remember Buffalo Tom I you know it was I got the I probably got the Birdbrain album first in the when was that the late 80s like 90 maybe 1990

yeah 89 for right and then I went back and got the first one with Sunflower Suit on it somehow

yeah SST so that was that is the hardcore label you know the black flag label

yeah but I was gonna say that the stuff that started to make sense to me in terms of punk rock was when Husker Du sort of married it all together, the energy with- Right. And so we were, the three of us in Buffalo Tom were very much influenced by Husker Du and the replacements out of Minneapolis, but also the Boston bands. I know you were in Boston, so Mission of Burma. Yeah.

There's a band called The Moving Targets. Yeah, I remember them. Fantastic band. Yeah. Really really underrated like unknowns well i kind of like i remember like the era that you were there but so so you leave huntington at 16 82 yeah and what you just what run away from home yeah no now my father uh got a job up in providence so we moved to this town called medfield which is uh sort of between Providence and Boston and Massachusetts. Yeah. Went from this town where I had all these bands. I had my own band.

I had all my friends. I grew up there. What, from Huntington? You had a band in Huntington in high school? Yeah, I was like a teenager. When did you start playing guitar? I started playing like 12, 13. What kind of music were you playing in high school?

That's a good question. You're 52? Yeah, 51, yeah. 51? Yeah. You know, this kind, 51, yeah. 51? Yeah, you know, this kind of stuff. Stones, but it was the time where Talking Heads

and Clash and Joe Jackson and that kind of stuff was just coming out. Was coming out. So we were, you know, we went from playing like half Stones

and half like Neil Young covers to, you know, putting in Psycho Killer or this and that. Oh, you did, yeah. But it was like, it was a conservative era out on Long Island.

Yeah. It probably still is. It's like, until like the alternative station came down there after I left. It was a, it was still very much, I remember. Weren't there some punk bands from there? Weren't the Dictators from Long Island? They were from, where were the Dictators from? Like Bronx?

Oh, maybe. Yeah, yeah. The Ramones of Long Island? Ramones of Queens. Yeah. Yeah, but I mean, I'm talking like real Long Island, not Queens. This is like north shore of Long Island. It was very much the Grateful Dead, La Crosse, Southern Rock.

Right. Even in like the late 70s. Yeah, nothing wrong with that. And the Stones were getting criticized by the dudes for playing disco. Oh, for the Some Girls record? Yeah. So that's the kind of, it was, and I remember being at this battle of the bands yeah you knew guys had turned on the stars yeah well i remember exactly oh man this is disco yeah what the fuck man yeah yeah yeah but then uh i remember this

this great um battle of bands where this there was this band called plastic device who came out as in my memory they were like in jumpsuits like yeah sure and they they launched into i'm so bored with the usa and the kids in the high school auditorium booed them all not off stage but booed them because they were they're you know they're anti-american oh really yeah yeah yeah so they just weren't ready they weren't ready yet they weren't but i think there's still pockets of long island that aren't ready yeah now that's why they're out on long island sure yeah so i think there's a lot of uh you know trump support down there on some areas yeah sure absolutely dug in man yeah dug in old time you know uh jingoistic nut jobs it's it's sort of protection kind of thing you know so you get up to providence and providence that's but you weren't in problem no no we were i was outside of

boston but it was like in the middle of nowhere so i went from this really kind of thriving town where you could really get around yourself, hitchhiking, whatever, beaches, downtown, record stores to this literally one stoplight town. Yeah. A nice, beautiful town, but in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. So it took a while. It was a depressing time, but you know.

You finished high school there? Yeah, finished high school there. Then went up to UMass. And Chris, actually, from Buffalo Tom, he kind of came from Huntington as a kid too and moved to Medfield when he was there years before me. But we met at UMass, he's two years older. Oh wait, so it's just three of you in the original band? Yeah.

Tom McGinnis, I remember him. I mean, I don't know if I know him. I feel like I met him before. Is that possible? He's a real quiet guy. He's the only native New Englander in a band. He grew up up in Andover and he went to UMass. So you went to UMass and that's where you met Chris and Tom. Yeah. And you guys started playing together. Yeah. So we were all in other bands. What band were you in?

It was just nobody. It was called, well, in high school, I was in a band called Rambunctious Llamas, which became some other name. You know, I was just high school kid. But Tom played bass in his cousin's band. And actually, do you know Tim O'Hare, producer? He did like Sebado Records, and he worked on our first record. Maybe. Great producer out of that whole Fort Apache scene. He worked on our first record.

He was in a band with Tom, actually, and they were called, called played a mutton and then they were called skylar hinkle but i was a high school kid with like these college kids uh going up to andover during christmas break and i saw tom playing bass and they were playing these original songs and his cousin was amazing wrote really great songs yeah this whole bowie kind of vibe to him and it just sort of blew my mind that people could could and they were already sort of playing, you know, like Jumpin' Jack Flash in Boston or The Rat and stuff like that as like sort of high school kids. Whoa, Jumpin' Jack Flash.

Remember that? Where was that? That was over near the Fenway. Yeah, man. Burned down. Yeah. Yeah. So that was that moment where you're like,

oh, you can write songs. Yeah, and also Tom was really handsome, and I wanted to be in a band with that guy. But we stuck him behind the drums. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it was just the era where, you know, Jay Maskus was around and those guys, and there was a lot of equipment down in people's basements.

He didn't go to school there, though, right? He did. He did. He went to UMass down the street from his house, right? Yeah, he grew up in Amherst. And they were already going. By the time we formed, they had already put out their first record, and then you're like- Bug? I think you're- No, no, the first one, the time we formed. Dinosaur Jr.? Yeah, they had already put out their first record.

And then you're like- Bug? I think you're- No, no, the first one, self-titled. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And the one with Repulsion on it. Yeah. And then You're Living All Over Me was second. And that was coming out or came out right around the time we were forming.

And they, you know, so there was like shared amps and drums in these houses in Northampton, you know, the next town over. And so guys would just get together at parties and jam, and that's kind of how we got going. Really? Yeah, a lot of downtime. And so those guys each wanted to learn different instruments. I was already sort of singing and playing and writing my own songs,

so Chris jumped to bass and Tom jumped to drums from bass. Uh-huh. Yeah. And he didn't know how to play drums? No, he had been fooling around in drums at his you know with his own band but it was his other drummers set when so you know he'd be left at his mom's house kind of thing right right so all right so you guys are all hanging out up there in amherst and jay's around yeah well what was the scene was he like did everyone consider him

a mastermind of some kind or was it just equally everyone equal it was a really small group of people like so you know black flag would come through or the Replacements. And it would be like- Replacements came through? Yeah. Student Union Ballroom kind of shows. So that was the top of their game, right? Yeah.

So I first saw them at the channel on, I guess it was Tim. Right as Tim was coming out. That's a little later, right? That would have been 85. And then there was only one more after that, wasn't there, really? Well, no, there were a couple more. Please Don't Meet Me and then there was Don't Tell a Soul. Don't Tell a Soul.

That was the last one? I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I kind of lost track. Sure, sure. But yeah, bands like that would come through. And the Pixies, do you know that area at all? Sheeans?

There was a pub called Sheeans. I knew people around the Pixies, but I didn't know them personally. I was on my way out. Joey and Charles were up at UMass as well, but they didn't form the band until they went back to Boston. But they would come back and play. And there was this basement place in Sheehan's. And there would be maybe 50 people max.

So we'd see that a lot of the same faces so when when jay and and lou and murph started to make it big they were still they were still getting grief from sound men around there and you know and it was really hard to get gigs there because it was it was the 80s and it was very much the 80s there you know so like the only bands that people really wanted to go see in in mass amounts was like reggae and blues and stuff they could dance to and drink to, you know? Sure. College town.

Yeah. And Jay was still using pretty much like almost the same size rig he has now, you know, two full stacks in like a tiny little club and mirrors. I remember mirrors falling off the wall at this place called Oasis and breaking in. You know, he'd have guys in tears you know because he was just too loud too loud but he didn't give a fuck yeah it was very punk rock people would be at him and you've met him and he's just kind of you know stone-faced yeah yeah yeah yeah he's gotten a little warmer oh absolutely yeah you know what i mean he's uh he's as he's become more of a

guru something yeah something gives i knew a woman who i think was like maybe the pixies first manager before they got big and i can't remember i should know her last name but i can't remember ann her first name and no it bothers me because you know we had it's things just disappear yeah brain yeah i know, I remember a lot of that era. I mean, because we got going soon after that, like at the Fort Apache. And Fort Apache was like the sort of cohesive element of Boston. Where was that? Well, the first one was down in Roxbury.

So it was really, that's where the name came from. It was a really rough era. And that was a studio? Yeah, it was a warehouse. What was the guy's name? Tim O'Hare? Tim O'Hare. But I mean, Tim was just one of the sort of guys.

It was like a clubhouse of guys like Sean Slade, Paul Coldery, Lou Giordano, and Gary Smith, and Joe Harvard. Joe Harvard was actually Joe Pernice's cousin. Then they moved to Cambridge, and that became sort of the big up in Camp Street where Rounder Records was. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. What year was that?

They moved up there right around the time we were starting Records was. Right, right. Yeah, yeah. What year was that? They moved up there right around the time we were starting. So like 88, 89. And they had two going for a while. And then they moved again nearby.

But, you know, that was like sort of the big cohesive element of Boston. And who is recording there? Well, I mean, the Pixies started there. Big Dipper,

Throwing Muses, Dinosaur, Lemonheads, heads juliana and the blake babies yeah blake babies yeah all those cats yeah and then you know then bands from outside started coming as soon as like bands like the pixies and throwing muses started making big waves overseas you had radio had come in and whole and then you know paul and sean all the fort apache yeah yeah and that was just mixing it was just a studio yeah huh yeah uncle tupelo did a record out there and it was a real i mean amazing discography so so what gets what gets mascus because i talked to him about doing your first record and it seemed to be kind of a hazy

thing to him like you know like you know he didn't completely own it in a way like he was like i did but we were all over i think he felt insecure about his capacity at that time. Yeah, I think a lot of people misread him that way. They think he's being standoffish or something. But he's a pretty humble, modest guy. And he didn't really, I mean, that first record was done in like different sessions over months. Oh, right.

You know, so we started it with Tim O'Hare and then Sean and Tim, Sean Slade. And then Jay came in like somewhere in the middle of that. And then Jay did all of our second record. Oh, he did? Yeah, with Sean Slade. And then we went on to Sean Slade and Paul Coldry for our third record. The first record's got Bus and Sunflower Suit on it?

That's right, yeah. I love those songs. Oh, thank you. Thanks so much. And Birdbrain's the second one? Bird. That's right, yeah. I love those songs. Oh, thank you. Thanks so much. And Birdbrain's the second one? Birdbrain's the second one. Yeah, it's a little bit darker for the moment.

I love Birdbrain. Enemy, Fortune Teller, Birdbrain. Those are the best. Fortune Teller is great. Like, I didn't realize that Jay did that. Yeah, so that was the one where we had Jay in

from start to finish. And, you know, what we loved about Jay, Jay was kind of a vibe guy. So he was like, he lights up, to this day he lights up when you just sort of talk about guitars and gear and getting sounds for that stuff.

In terms of the songs and arrangements, he wasn't really involved so much in that. He did say, this is about Birdbrain. He said, this is the hit that's gonna make all the girls cry. Birdbrain? Yeah. For me, the song on hit that's going to make all the girls cry. Birdbrain? Yeah.

For me, the song on that record that I love is Fortune Tower. Yeah, it's kind of like the who. Is it? Yeah, it's almost like,

I think it's like Miles, I can see from Miles' chords going up the neck, I think. Well, but I liked all these songs. Like,

this is one of those, I think Birdbrain was the first song where that album was like the one where I'm like, who the fuck are these guys? I'm glad that I got that at the beginning.

Yeah. Yeah. But it wasn't just the three of you on that record, huh? It was. Yeah? Yeah, just the three. But you had other people hanging out

or playing guitar on things? Oh, yeah, different. Yeah, Jay plays on the song Birdbrain. You know, I think we have Tom's cousin sings on, I don't know one of these songs somewhere along the line but yeah no it's been mostly just the three of us we had a keyboard uh guy later in our career uh like in the 90s late 90s for you know touring and for one record but he wasn't really so after this record so you do the first record and you are do do people

pick up on it before uh yeah i mean it, it was just a different era where expectations were much lower. Yeah. You know, the fact that Dinosaur was going across country, never mind to the UK and stuff, and doing well was like, God, if we could just get a record on SST Records, that would be a goal, right? Right. Right. Of course.

That would be amazing. Yeah. Then we could go on and graduate college and go on to our normal life right so each thing was really like moving it down the moving the goalpost down a little bit until you know it became this post nirvana age where they were signing everything that moved so so did you finish college yeah yeah we all finished I was the last I was the I'm the youngest what'd you get a degree in i was uh communications and uh comparative literature minor uh-huh yeah kind of just you know but then you just want you just like you didn't you just got it done and then you just hit the road yeah exactly so all right so you got

your you got your record on sst and that was sort of like cool oh yeah yeah and but but it wasn't like and then you just started touring. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we started, I think we actually, our first real tour was over in like Belgium and Holland and, and, and the UK. Opening for who? No, no. Well, actually, um, it's no, it's mostly our own tour. Yeah.

Um, we did do a string of dates either on the first or second record opening for Henry Rollins band, uh, which was pretty intense, you know, in Germany. opening for henry rollins band uh which was pretty intense you know in germany what year which rollins band configuration sam hayne was sim hayne sim hayne was his name uh-huh the drummer and i forget who else pretty crazy huh it was intense they were really serious uh he's very we were just this sort of like goofy even when he's funny he's serious yeah yeah and i And I think some of those old school guys, old school SST guys had little time for us. I mean, SST was changing around the time we got. Because it used to be sort of a community.

Yeah. Like the Minutemen and like. Yeah. They sort of developed a circuit. Yeah. And we came a little later. Right. And SST itself was sort of falling.

And you weren't really punk rock. No, we were not. But I mean, you know, little later. Right. SST itself was sort of falling off. And you weren't really punk rock. No, we were not. But I mean, you know, punk informed. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

Like you seem to be on the cusp of that Buffalo Tom sound was how music was changing at that time. You know, it was a new thing that was going on. Right. I'm not sure how how broad that spectrum is but it seemed like you know rem and and you know people uh like the replacements and stuff that weren't essentially punk rock but punk informed but you know pretty american music yeah we called it college rock that back then before alternative you know it's like because we were all played on

college stations we toured a lot of colleges. Yeah, yeah. Salad bar gigs, whatever you call them. But it was still very much a big deal. As I talk about low expectations, for R.E.M. to have a major label deal at that point was still new. And they were starting to play these big halls, like even arenas. That was all happening.

Because Birdbrain comes out in 1990. Yeah. How did you get signed from after the first record? Well first record well yeah i mean it's a long story but we were mostly signed to this dutch label primarily uh because they were the first one we had gone through our you know records like sending out demo tapes and we had this gun club record that we were huge gun club fans and they had a live record that was put out by this label called mega disc yeah uh rick or Mel in Holland in Belgium. And so that's kind of how we got some real footing in the Benelux countries,

which to this day are our biggest sort of market per capita. You know, in the smallest countries. Where? Holland and Belgium. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. In particular, Belgium.

There's this line and I think it's Singles. Or is that the one with Matt Damon singles Matt Dillon Matt Dillon right Matt Damon where he says I just found out

our band is big in Belgium and it's like this big laugh line and my wife elbows me as we're watching yeah you're big in Belgium yeah so and he licensed us

basically we had a deal in the US because you liked a live gun club record you reached out yeah Yeah, exactly. Those were the days. You just sent out cassettes and this guy wrote us a letter and he wants to

own everything. It's so funny. That's what drove you. Like, you know, like the history of SST was the first feather in the cap to get an SST record. Now, like, this label's got to be cool. No, no. Megadisc was first. They were the first ones to respond.

So Greg Ginn sat down with us in New York from SST, the guy from Black Flag. And I think he sat down with us because we already had Jay involved. Yeah. So I think that was an angle for him. Yeah. But then we signed to Beggar's Banquet, which was like, that was our papa label for most of our career. But then, yeah, but then the next record, Let Me Come Over,

92, that was the big record. Yeah, that was sort of, well, you know, it's funny, that started to happen. That's the one I gave Jon Stewart and somehow he managed

to get into Rolling Stone Magazine and say you were his favorite band. Oh, yeah, yeah. That was me. I remember hearing about this. I remember. I did that. Thank you very much.

I don't know if you're still his favorite band, but I remember like he asked me at some point what I was listening to him. I was telling everybody about Buffalo time. I had to get like David Cross, who was a snob about pot, you know, about like,

he was a big fire hose guy and like, you know, you know, power. He just liked a certain type of music. And like, I kept pushing, like I have bird brain.

I was like, this is it. This is it. And then this one, and finally he relented. So I kind of like, it was a, I was a, thank you it. This is it. And then this one. And finally, he relented. So I was an early. I didn't know you were that much of a proselytizer. Oh, yeah, man.

For Buffalo Tom. Appreciate it. Sure, I was. Yeah. Nice. But yeah, because Birdbrain in this record, I like all the songs on this record, too, on Let Me Come Over. Yeah, so this was right around Nevermind was happening.

And we were sort of dialing down the guitars while they were sort of beefing them up. Yeah. That whole sort of sub-pop scene. You know, we played The Rat with Soundgarden. That's kind of like, that's how fast everything changed. Remember Mitch? Yeah, of course I remember Mitch. Mitch is burned in the retina and the ears,

you know, that voice box. And that's 2K. Yeah, you know, that voice box. And that 2K. Yeah. Oh, God. Or whatever that was. Whatever it was. It matted down pre-Trumpian. Oh, it was something else, that thing.

It was like a hat. Yeah. He was a real character. Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Butch outside. Mr. Butch outside. Yeah.

One time, Mr. Butch, like he wanted some money. He wanted to buy some beer. But I thought he said, you know, I was going to a liquor store. That one he had to walk downstairs into, like right in Kenmore. Right. He wanted to buy some beer. But I thought, he said, I was going to a liquor store. That one he had to walk downstairs into, like right in Kenmore. He was standing out front there. He said, give me a pint of, give me some black label. So I got him scotch. He just wanted beer.

And I ran into him a few days later. He's like, oh, that fucked me up, man. You wanted Carling black label. Yeah. But yeah, Butch was, yeah, him and that, he had a guitar for a while. Yeah. Yeah. He would play.

Yeah. Yeah. I remember Butch. Yeah. I think they're both dead. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

They both are. Yeah. But yeah. So you played the rat with Soundgarden. Yeah. I mean, so there was like this, um, you know, sort of affinity between those bands out in sub pop and in Seattle and ice

and the East Coast stuff. Yeah. But yeah, I mean Nirvana really as everybody knows it was just sort of cracked it all open and so we were on this

label in the US. It was through Beggars but it was called Thirsty Year. They're mostly a promotional house. You might know Mike Studeau

who had the high five, Brownies, and it became a high five bar. Yeah, Brownies. Mike, down in Alphabet City. Yeah, so he worked that Let Me Come Over record. But then it was, wow, so Tail Light's Fate is sort of getting some spins. That's a great song.

On the radio show. Velvet Roof, I love that song. Yeah, thanks. Your guitar sounds very specific. I listened to the latest record that I just got. Is that out yet? The new one. Yeah.

It's called Quiet Peace. It's coming out on March 2nd. How do you get that guitar sound? What are you playing? Well, a lot of this is credit to Jay. This is stuff that I grew up playing too, like humbucker pickup through two bands. That's basically it.

Yeah, yeah. But you can get very specific with an SG. You like the SG? Gibson SG. playing too like um humbucker pickup through two bands that's basically it you know yeah yeah but if you can you can get very specific with an sg you like the sg i love the sg uh because it's light and you can kind of lead get a lot of twang out of it mostly mostly bridge pickup yeah um you know you put that through a jcm 800 or a marshall with a master uh volume so then you can kind of dial in the gain just dial in the game with the second with the master volume, so then you can kind of dial in the gain, just mostly straight amp sound. Dial in the gain with the second volume. Yeah. So you can amp up the drive on the second volume. Exactly, yeah.

So that's mostly it. And a lot of acoustic underride. I guess that's right. But by the time we met Jay, I had sort of gotten away from the tube amps of my youth and was playing like everybody else, a JCM8, I don't know what you call it, a JC-120, those jazz chorus Roland amps. Oh, really? Oh, yeah, JCM8, I don't know what you call it, a JC120, those jazz chorus rolling dance.

Oh, really? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They played with a strat and something kind of jangly. Yeah, yeah. And Jay's like, put these down here. Plug this in here.

So we were getting back into the beef because it was Husker Du and the replacements. Everybody was beefing it up. And they were all tube guys? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Actually, I mean, talk about specific sounds. Bob Mould always had a really specific sound. It always sounded like going directly into the guys? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, I mean, talk about specific sounds. Bob Mould always had a really specific sound. It always sounded like going directly into the board. Yeah, man. He's a sweet guy. Yeah, yeah. It definitely sounded, it kind of cut through, right?

Right. Yeah. Who were the bands that you were aligned with on the East Coast, really? I mean, who were the crew that was coming up with you? Yeah, Lemonheads. Lemonheads. Okay, right. Blake Babies.

But it's funny. you know we'd go down to new york there was a band called sleepyhead we play the pyramid down in new york oh yeah i remember that place bands like that and then as soon as you hit the road you become friends with like these you know teenage fan club from scotland and australia umi so and there was really kind of uh you saw everybody out there yeah we'd be playing festivals and right we'd meet a lot of these bands, or be on the road for like a stretch of dates with them. Sort of like comedy, you'd probably-

Yeah, yeah. And you had long hair, right, for a while? Yeah, sort of. Longer hair? Mid-90s, yeah. Because I think I remember seeing you at TT to Bears. That was the only time I ever saw you at TTs. Is that possible?

Yeah. Yeah. It's possible the only time you've seen us? Yeah. You wouldn't know that, but you played TTs? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'd always come back to TTs, even when we were playing like the Paradise, we'd still do a TTs gig.

Yeah, yeah, man. So, all right. So, let me come over. My point was it seemed poised to be like a hit record. Yeah. I remember. Yeah. We felt momentum, though, going into the next record.

So, 92, some good things, some great things happened that year. Yeah. Aside from getting married. That was the year you got married? Yeah. Yeah. And that record still did pretty well. It was a real slow burner.

It took a while for it to happen. Yeah. But it didn't sell shit loads of copies but you know we went out on tour with my bloody valentine on that uh record there's a noisy band we played the redding festival yeah yeah so it was a great era so we felt a lot of momentum and that's actually when we came out here to la to record a big red letter day and that was like everybody's like that's where the money was like sort of being put behind for us that that record yeah they were putting their bets on that one

yeah they were recording with the Rob brothers but it was very much like that they had done It's a Shame About Ray and which we really liked by the Lemonheads

so that's the one with you know It's a Shame About the Song what happened to that guy where's Dando I mean he's still playing yeah he's yeah he's

I think he's mostly based out of the Martha's Vineyard oh yeah yeah so he's sort of cashed out and he hangs out?

I don't know. I saw Evan in April. We did a benefit for the ACLU in Boston together. Is he all right? I think he's all right. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. We only see each other like once a year or every two years now.

We're connected online or whatever, social. But I don't know. I can't really speak to his. Sure. Sure, man. All right. So, okay. So, now that you're out here, you're recording.

This is a big record. Yeah. And what happens? Yeah. I mean, modestly better, you know. But, you know, we got buzz. I don't think actually we had buzz. What was the thing back then on MTV? Yeah, I don't remember. We were Buzzbin. What was the thing back then on MTV? We were in rotation.

That was the era where you would spend the amount of the record budget on one video. Then you'd do another one for 100 grand or whatever. You just hoped that MTV put it into rotation, high rotation. We were never that big. I mean, it was sort of,

what we, what we appreciated was that we started playing bigger halls. Right. We started to take some opening tours that,

you know, that was always a mixed bag. What do you mean? Like, First band? Yeah, do we open up for,

yeah, do we take this tour opening up for Counting Crows, you know, or do we take this tour that, you know,

the label really wants you to go open for six weeks, open up for the band live or whatever it was. Yeah. Exactly. They had that one song. Yeah. Lightning Crashes. Yeah, I mean, everything was commercial now.

That was when college rock got commercial. That's when it became, quote unquote, alternative. Right. A lot of people sound the same. Yeah. Right. A lot of people sound the same. Yeah. Yeah. Like Pearl Jam infected everybody, a certain type of band. Yeah.

I mean, Pearl Jam came out and did their thing, and then it was a whole bunch of guys that started singing kind of in a lower, mumbly register, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So, but like, I guess, like when I look at, you know, you keep chipping away. Yeah. But at what point, you know, like you, like you say, you got a family now, you got a day job, you're writing books.

So was there a tangible point in the life of the band where you're like, I got to get some backup going? Yeah. Well, no, there were multiple times where we just sort of, I think in my mind, and literally quit the band once or twice. We pulled ourselves back from that ledge. But I got to say that getting to the... It sort of mirrored the 90s almost literally.

By the end of the 90s, we had said, okay, Beggar's Banquet, you've been a great home, but if we're going to keep doing this, we're going to keep pushing it. Let's sign directly to a US major label and see if that's going to get us over the hump. Right. So it was somewhat, I wouldn't say craven, but it's like, you know, it's ambitious. It's like, you know, you want to kind of, look, everybody else is making these, selling millions of records. Why aren't we?

Or whatever else. And it's a ridiculous kind of thing. Did it consume you? Not consume me, but it started, I realized, and I think the band started to realize that we didn't make

any kind of musical decisions so maybe one or two where with commercial things in mind. And that was really about choosing singles and stuff and maybe having a guy, the remix guy, mix that single.

But if you had asked us when we started were we gonna do that kind of stuff we'd be like oh no man vocals are too loud in the mix

yeah you can't tell us what to do slippery slope yeah I think we mostly stuck to our guns and probably to

our own detriment but so we it took a while to make that last record of the 90s which was called Smitten

and it's kind of a commercially sounding record it has some really good songs, some that I'm not so happy about that we don't play much anymore. But so, 99, my kid, my first kid was born. Tom already had two kids. We were sort of sick of the whole thing,

the recording, the touring, because we were making a good living, but we had to keep it going. You had to keep that cycle going. Yeah, and we didn't want to do that anymore. And it was like, the last tour was opening up for the goo goo dolls who had who had been this band under us for all these years and then they became huge and they were so we're on this tour and i've got my own daughter now being born and i'm playing to a bunch of girls that are closer to her age than mine you know 12 year old 13 year old girls i've seen

johnny and these guys on on mtv and they're great guys yeah but it was just an unrewarding tour and we said all right we're and we got dropped you know so that our decision was made for us we got dropped from after polydor which was under the whole uh seagram's universal deal like something like after you got after smitten smitten yeah and so then we stopped we stopped yeah we stopped we just said okay we didn't

we're not breaking up we're not we're not the kind of guys that say hey we're going on a reunion I mean a last tour

retirement tour whatever which may have but all of you got out of it without you know major drug abuse you know drug issues

or booze issues or yeah outside of maybe some broken hearts and some bitterness you've made it out alive yeah you know i'm here yeah but i mean the drinking got i mean the drinking on the road was certainly a concern you know but i would come home and i would successfully just kind of turn it off sure uh but but that was i i completely credit having my you know the girl i met in college laura who i married 92 if i didn't have

that sort of rudder type of uh force in my life i'm sure i just would have been like yeah let's down the road man like whatever just give me everything still be out there yeah yeah but no the other two guys we're all like these really it's i don't think there's a more level-headed bunch and they're all three guys they're both family guys too now yeah Yeah, yeah. And you all live around in New England or where? Yeah, so Chris lives right outside of Harbor Square. I live in Lexington right outside of Boston. And Tom's up in Newburyport up near New Hampshire. Yeah, I miss parts of being there.

Yeah. Yeah, because it was a very definitive, defining part of my life, the New England part. Yeah. And like, you know, as weird as it all is and as sort of segregated and odd parochial yeah uh it is there there is a consistency to it that is sort of comforting yeah i mean i've been there now since when i'm 16 since i was 16 years old but i still feel like

i'm more of sort of long island kid sure i am a new england person you still got family down there yeah yeah of course yeah but i don't get down there that much you know it's mostly friends i stuck well you know you it kind of balanced out between the two accents you don't seem to have an accent i don't think so yeah yeah that's lucky because both options were kind of annoying it's right man sausage yeah yeah sausage sausage sausage yeah it's true yeah but uh so so now when you stop doing that when you know yeah i mean that's like because this is this is the thing like one of the reasons was you know that we never got together that like because like i followed you for a long time and i love the music and then i was always wondering like you know how you, when I saw you wrote a book, I'm like, well, that's great. Like, but I never, I never know how people handle that evolution.

Because like, you know, when I was up against it and my career was going nowhere and there was nothing I could do about it. There's nothing you can do to sell a record other than do your best. There's nothing you can do to make you, to make people come see you do comedy, but do your best. And when it doesn't work, that's a horrible, dark moment. Yeah. I went through, that was like what, 30-ish? 33. That was a really low ebb for me.

And I felt like- After you guys, after Smitten. Yeah, and I tried to get a solo thing going with another band. I like your record. I listened to one of them. I can't remember which one it was, the last one. Yeah, I had a band.

And in fact, I just had dinner with the guy that was in my band, Crown Victoria, Tom Pulce, who'd mixed a bunch of other Buffalo Tom records as well later on. But I mean, it was a really tough era because it was the era that, you know, radio had completely gone mainstream again. It was like Limp Bizkit and Creed. And there was no hope for uh sort of a guy that didn't make a huge dent you know right but uh i tried anyway and i that's when i started saying well i gotta do some other things in life but it was it was low ebb because it should have

been really happy time because i my my daughter was just born but yeah i i that was you know that was the most depressed i've probably been since i was like, you know, 16 and had moved from New York. Yeah. Because when you do a creative pursuit, you don't, there's no identity, you know, it's your identity,

but there's no easy shift into what after a certain age. I mean, fuck, I was in my mid forties, you know, when the shit, when the wheels came off and it's sort of like, what am I prepared to do?

Right. Real estate. That's right. We'll get that license.'s what i did you did yeah oh that's what i've been doing that's that's how i made my that's how i made and that's a weird identity crisis kind of thing almost every i mean i've been doing real estate around lexington massachusetts for like 16 years and i still i still have a hard time it's kind of squaring it all you're probably a known guy yeah i, I am. I may make a living.

And it's the only, it's like, here's my resume. I graduated in 89 and I'm in a rock band until 99. So hire me. It's like, no, you got to kind of do something yourself. Right. It's America. You got to pull yourself up by your bootstraps. So you went and got a license?

Got a license. Kind of eased into it. I was still doing music. And Buffalo Tom was still doing stuff. Yeah, sure. We had like an East Side record. We actually had kind of a hit record in. I was still doing music. And Buffalo Town was still doing stuff. Yeah, sure. We had like an A-side record. We actually had kind of a hit record in the UK with a cover of a jam song. The B-side was Oasis, so it was this big record.

Yeah. So that was kind of cool. So we still kept doing stuff. But it got to a point where we're like, well, if we're going to keep doing this, let's not just be a nostalgia act, right? Sure. Let's see if we can still write songs together. And were we were all right we can't be like well that's

good because you can't really be a nostalgia actor if no one knows who you are you know that's kind of the point yeah yeah here are these guys doing their one the song that they think everybody knows yeah that's kind of the truth that's kind of the truth no no i mean we you we really had this sort of cult audience. Sure, no. It wasn't a huge cult audience, but it was worldwide. Like, we could just, you know, all through the 2000s, we could pop over to Australia. We could pop over to, you know, Holland or whatever in London.

Yeah. It wasn't, you know, it's not like 3,000 seaters, but it was enough to sort of at least break even. 800 to 1,000? Yeah. And in London or Belgium, yeah. Yeah, yeah. A couple more. Yeah. So, 1,000? Yeah. And in London or Belgium, yeah. Yeah, yeah. A couple more.

So, well, that's great. But, all right, so you're selling real estate. You do all right with it? Yeah. Residential? Commercial? Yeah, mostly a lot of modern stuff, mid-century stuff. Oh, yeah?

Around that area, yeah. And that's sort of what gets your bread and butter. That's like, yeah, that's it. I mean, music still brings in dribs and drabs but we still sound like you guitar the voice the songs are still sound like you on that new album it's not all you singing though huh no chris sings like four songs but chris is always pretty much from not the first record but the second record always sang a song or two and then increasingly wrote more and more i guess i noticed him more this record yeah yeah i don't know four i think yeah yeah yeah and when like where does the book

before we get to the newest record where does the where so you're doing real estate and you're okay you got your your and your wife works probably yeah a little bit yeah she's mostly taking care of the kids though thank god and but everything worked out all right uh yeah i think so that's well that's that's a good story. Yeah, it is. It is. So you're not really, it's not like the music's a hobby or you gave it up necessarily because you didn't really get closure. I guess what I'm saying is you're not one of those people that you're able to accommodate still doing the music without it representing some sort of failure i hope so you know what i mean like yeah you know like i mean like it's it's still like it's still probably the most important thing to you it absolutely is it's still probably too much a

part of my identity but it's like as an artist whatever you that's a big word but that's kind of who i am it's the other stuff that i have a hard time uh i mean you know writing about the stones or whatever that's that's another part but yeah going to have a day job is a weird thing to me still um sure but i it's fascinates me to like when i listen to your show for example there are other people shows and they're interviewing like whatever peers from our era that maybe sold a few more records or didn't or yeah like how do you how do they keep it going like where do you live and how do they do yeah i live in a really expensive area so that's part of it you know those are questions i always wonder about yeah that's why

i sort of asked you about dando and you yeah i don't know yeah yeah well uh i mean evan evan did like a jello commercial when he was a kid and that i know that was paying for some back when we knew him he had like sort of a jello i think he had a song called the jello fund or something yeah no but it's but it is an interesting question is how do people survive and and because it's not necessarily part of the mystique to divulge that because they might either be having a hard time or they might be having a very sort of mundane, normal time. Yeah. Well, the mystique is the big, and that's the word.

I mean, and not a lot of bands, even from our era where it was all about being real or, you know, stripping away a lot of that. Like I would just go on stage with whatever I was wearing, for example but even bands of our era the where you where it was pretentious to think otherwise did sort of cultivate mystique if if not themselves and their publicists sure right yeah but just the nature of you being a band people assume yeah you know like you know even even when you know musicians back in the day like you know if they had a day job they didn't give a fuck about it yeah yeah right they were driving a van. Oh, yeah. Day jobs on the early side until our third album. Yeah. Right. But when you're in your 20s, you don't need a whole lot.

That's right. Yeah. Yeah. A couple hundred a week. But it's sort of interesting to me that at some point for people to, and I think family responsibility makes a big difference. Yeah. You can't really think twice about it.

No, exactly. You've got to do this. Yeah. Like, you know, you can't really think twice about it. No, exactly. You've got to do this. Yeah. And I don't know. All three of us came from, none of our parents were divorced. They were all, stayed married. So we came from these, that's a very unusual thing for a band. I mean, sort of upper middle class.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so. Yeah. The pragmatic aspect was ingrained. I couldn't really, really go off the rails. Yeah. There's something inside you wouldn't let you. Yeah.

And there's mental illness in our family and struggles with addiction and things like that. But the family is such a huge, I got to say it, to our credit, it's like you can't, nobody's going to let you go out and just be the guy on Skid Row. All right. That didn't make it in the music business. Oh, yeah. Or keep touring. In your family. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But you didn't let yourself do that. Right, right. Yeah, but you're saying that like the family, they would have thrown you a line. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think I could have easily succumbed if, like I said, if I hadn't been married or had a girlfriend early on. Yeah.

And to something to come home to, I really, even if I was coming back from tour, I just love being in bars and hearing bands and drinking. Sure. I think it would have gotten worse than it did. So what was the experience doing this record? It was great. So we worked with Dave Minahan.

Do you know Dave Minahan? He plays second guitar in the replacements on the last kind of iteration. Uh-huh. And he's been playing with Paul for his solo stuff. Uh-huh. He was in a band called The Neighborhoods.

You probably knew The Neighborhoods. I remember The Neighborhoods. There's three of them. Yeah. Oh, man, that's so funny. Yeah, so he's got a studio in Waltham,

much like the old Fort Apache, real raw sort of warehouse space with a ton of old amps and guitars. Oh, yeah? So we worked with him

and then we had John Agnello who you've interviewed. We had him mix and guitars. Oh yeah? So we worked with him and then we had John Agnello who you've interviewed. We had him mix it. Oh yeah? And he worked on our Sleepy Lad record. He does a lot of good shit.

He's a great guy too. He's a good cat. He does a lot. Yeah, he's got an amazing discovery and it's so different. What is it about him? What do you like about him

in terms of working with producers? I mean, having worked with Maskus and what does a producer do for having worked with, you know, Maskus. And what does a producer do for you? Well, back then, so when we first, on Sleepy Eyed album, we brought, we wanted to, it was a reaction to the record previous, which had been Big Red Letter Day, which was really

produced. We were out here for two months working with these guys, these old school guys, the Rob brothers. And so I said, you know, let's make a record like Tonight's in the Night or Some Girls where we're all in the same room and the amps are buzzing and the snare is rattling and, you know, it's live off the mic like that, you know, that kind of stuff.

That vibey record. And John was up for it. And John had done, obviously, some Dinosaur and Sonic Youth stuff. And we loved the way it sounded. And he was just a great guy. And he's this total Brooklyn kind of funny, smart-ass guy yeah totally fit our personalities yeah so we loved working with him and then i you know we just moved kept doing different things and then i saw john it had been a long time uh at the dinosaur uh 30th uh down at the bowery ballroom and we went out and had

drinks afterwards and we were like he's like yeah i would love to do another record with you and i said we would love to do another record with you but um we couldn't get down to new york to record it and stuff so he just ended up mixing it oh really yeah great mixer though yeah and which label's putting it out uh it's uh school kids records okay yes through red eye distribution kind of these guys from it's this guy steven judge out of north carolina and when's it come out uh march 2nd and it's going to be on vinyl out of North Carolina. And when's it come out? March 2nd. And it's going to be on vinyl too? Yeah.

Yeah. They'll have them send you that. Oh, good. I'm going to need the vinyl. Of course. Yeah. So now these Stones books, like writing the second Stones book, like what did you have to do?

I mean, what? Yeah. So I wasn't going to write another Stones book. I wasn't even sure if I was going to write another. I was pretty sure I wasn't going to write another book but um write it before the in 2012 before their um their uh anniversary their 50th anniversary some agent got in touch with me and said hey i've got this idea to do like 50 tracks you know tell the story of 50 years and i said that sounds like a perfect idea yeah sure i'd be and they'd seen this book yeah so he knew me from that maybe some other

thing i had written online or something on a blog or yeah um so yeah we we i did a proposal and um and i mean i'm not i'm not a real journalist i'm i was learning to be more of one like how to interview people and i interviewed andy johns and bobby keys but it was really hard for me to get those stuff i was really envious of you to get you know sit down with keith and uh i think i fanboyed out too much. I did all right. I would totally fanboy. So I met him. I talk about that in the preface. Just as I was sort of, I don't even know if I had a book deal yet,

but I was at this lyrics award. Do you know about this? It's like Chuck Berry was getting a lyric award from Penn, New England, with Leonard Cohen. So it was Keith and Elvis and, you know, all these guys. Costello, obviously. Yeah, Costello was there. He's a good guy.

And yeah, and Paul Simon was there. It was this huge thing for Boston. You did a Paul Simon cover. Yeah, yeah. Simon and Garfunkel. Yeah, on the new record. Yeah. And so I was just standing there.

I'm talking to my friend Tom Parada, who's a novelist, who's another guy you should maybe talk to, a really funny guy. Anyway, he's sort of giving the opening remarks at this thing. And so we're up in this like ante room before at the JFK Museum, Paul Simon, and Keith is just on the other side of Paul Simon.

I'm just like, I gotta get past Simon. How do I get around Paul Simon? And then Keith was standing by himself and I said, ah, Keith, I just gotta tell you, man, I'm just a huge fan. And I'm just like everybody else that's coming up to you is probably saying the same thing, but I just have to say it, right? And he's like, oh, man, I feel the same way exactly about Chuck Berry, mate, you know?

Yeah, yeah. And I said, yeah. And it's so cool that they're giving him, you know, recognition for his lyrics, which just, he's, ah, exactly, man. He goes, hurry, home drops in our eyes. And he just beats his chest a couple of times. And I'm like, man, Keith has just pivoted this awkward situation to like two guys just talking about Chuck Berry lyrics.

And it was just, it was like everything I could have hoped for, you know? I'm just going to leave it there. But in fact, I had told Evan that I was going to be down there. I knew Evan's buddies with like his son and Keith. And Evan's just sort of, you know, everybody loves Evan. So I said, hey, I might meet Keith at this thing.

I'm going to try it. He goes, oh, tell him I said hi. So I said, oh, you know, I want to just say, Evan says, oh, Evan, he's a good cat, man. Which Evan? Evan Dando. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. He's a good cat.

No kidding. So, yeah. So, yeah. I mean, then I just, I mean, I wish I could have gotten to those guys themselves, but I don't think it's an easy prospect for another Stones book, you know? Yeah, Mick. But I had long conversations with Andy Johns and Bobby Keys and Mary Clayton. Good you got that before he kicked it.

Yeah, yeah. And he was something, man. He really was. It's weird that, like like you know i over time through listening to a bit of jazz and stuff to really appreciate you know certainly like someone like keys or you know even clarence clemens to a degree where you know it's such a signature sound but it is just that instrument but nobody sounds like bobby keys and he's all over all those records yeah it's kind of insane yeah, and it's not as obnoxious to me

as some of the E Street band sacks. Oh, no, no, I know, but I'm just saying that I have a hard time differentiating between jazz players, but there's something about rock and guys who come from that discipline, the R&B discipline. It's sort of the King Curtis,

post-King Curtis, like the blow, like really belted it out as opposed to nuanced right right you have that to fit the rock thing yeah exactly because like you know you it's more of a being heard kind of it is right you know and if you get too complicated it ain't no one's gonna give a shit right it's more of a rhythmic style yeah it's a balance man you're right so so the so the stones book it focuses on 50 songs yeah yeah yeah so i picked 50 and it's not i mean it's not a top 50 so i was getting a lot of grief you you picked winter off a goat's head soup that's one of their 50 best songs no no no well i mean

if you put a gun to my head it kind of yeah yeah no i i and i have and i try to pick songs from all of their albums i did from all of their albums. What did you pick from Metamorphosis? Oh, no, no, no. From all, I should say from all their, there might be something from Metamorphosis on there, but from all their actual releases. You know, Metamorphosis is outtakes. Weird record.

Yeah, yeah, it's outtakes. Is it outtakes? Yeah, yeah, it's all outtakes and from different eras. It's just like that, I think the whole notion of how, not so much how to record a record, but how to sort of like, you know, become a community you know as a band right with a bunch of other people around and then just ride riffs out until

they start to make sense because some of the outtakes that i heard on the new on that remaster like i don't know if they're outtakes but it's sort of like or different versions of uh what was it tumbling dices yeah good time woman yeah like you know they picked the right ones generally yeah they absolutely did yeah that's the one thing about outtakes and about bootlegs and stuff like that it's sort of like there's a reason that's not everybody that worked with them and andy johns uh had said this in every interview not just the one that i talked to him but he said they would be the worst band for like two days. You just like, they're never going to pull this shit together.

And then all of a sudden, one take, the tape was always rolling, but he said this is true for their whole career. All of a sudden they would just latch in and that was it. And it would just, magic would happen

and that would be the master. So it kind of explains a lot of, maybe this is overstated, a lot of Charlie's fills are kind of weird because he doesn't know necessarily where the one is like if you think of tattoo you yeah they had been playing that as a reggae song for like six hours yeah yeah and then they then keith just went into this downbeat version of it and charlie kind of comes in on a kind of weird spot and and that's the take they use and they went back into reggae for like another two

hours but they went back and found that and they're like oh we gotta put this out that's the take they used and they went back into reggae for like another two hours but they went back and found that and they're like, oh, we gotta put this out. That's why, see that's the thing. Start me up. Did I say start me up?

On Tattoo You. Yeah, yeah, start me up. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he just,

because it had been like, yeah, which is, you know, who wants to hear that song ever again? It's overplayed but to hear it

in that context is interesting, I think. No, it's fascinating that they would take the time and just noodle around and like it's it's sort of like i don't have enough dedication to any rabbit hole to stay in it very long yeah like i'll get started but like with the stones like i i'm glad i sort of had a beginner's mind to it you know when i saw them in

san diego and and being sort of a you know born again uh you know vinyl guy or just paying more attention than i ever have yeah i i'm just getting to stuff that people you know got to years ago but that's a great thing about music it's like you but like you know the magic is they're just a four-piece operation and there's no backtracking and they're carrying each other right you know and they're they're raw as they've ever been. Yeah. And the songs feel so profoundly full. It's a magic to it.

Yeah, absolutely. I think you skipped the right era. Those mid to late 80s, when they got back together, I saw them during those tours. And it was like, I just want to go and touch the hem of their garment. I just want to see them. Right, sure. And it was sort of like, whoa,

that was a great version of one of these songs that I didn't expect. And there was one era where they were taking internet requests and I think they might have even done that in the last tour

and it's like, trying to get the album track that they don't play. Well, they were going to do the whole Sticky Fingers record and they bailed on it. Right, so they started that here at the Fonda, right?

Yeah, I didn't get to see that. Couldn't get tickets. I tried. Yeah, and they ended that here at the Fonda, right? Yeah, I didn't get to see that. Couldn't get tickets. I tried. Yeah, and they ended up doing a lot of that record. So I think a big force has been Chuck Lavelle sort of keeping them.

Like, you should go back and learn some of these great songs that your super fans are into. You're not going to lose your fans if you do a down-tempo song.

If you don't, yeah. I think Mick's still keeping the show rolling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What they did, like he did Moonlight Mile. And the vulnerability of it was just mind-blowing. It hits you, doesn't it? Yeah.

Because they stick him out there by himself. There's a moment like that. Did you see the Scorsese movie? There's a moment like that where there's an extreme close-up. I think it says, tears go by, maybe. Yeah, yeah. That movie was sort of sad to me because it didn't seem like they were getting along at all. Yeah.

Mick and Keith. Like it seemed like they were literally trying not to talk to each other. Yeah, it could be. Yeah. I think it's always been that way pretty much since the, I think since before the 80s. And since then, it's been like a detente here and there.

I don't know if they're ever hanging out happily together. Yeah? Yeah, I don't think so. All ever hanging out happily together. Yeah? Yeah. I don't think so. All right, man. Well, now, thank you for the books. Thank you. Thank you for talking to me.

Thanks for having me. It's an honor to be here. I'm excited about the new record. It sounds like a Buffalo Tom record. Yeah, we're still there. All right. How much longer for the garage? Am I one of the last guys in the garage?

No, we got a little time. We got a little time. But you might be one of the last. I'm still sort of like iffy about it. Like all of a sudden now, because they're redoing the house, I'm like, well, maybe I'll keep it. Maybe, you know. Just like jack it up and put it in a truck and bring it to the.

I like the new garage, but like, you know, people are starting to really get in my brain about this sort of. Now you can't like let nostalgia dictate it. That's right. Right. I don't want to become a nostalgia act. Right. Exactly.

Keep it vital, man. Take care. Thanks. that's right right i don't become a nostalgia act right exactly keep it vital man take care thanks okay so as i said the new buffalo tom record is available tomorrow march 2nd it's called quiet and peace so uh and it sounds like a buffalo tom record i guess i'll play a little guitar. Hold on. Thank you. Boomer lives! But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find

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