WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 897 - Ted Danson

Episode Date: March 11, 2018

Ted Danson is one of the most visible and familiar actors of the past four decades, and yet he still describes himself to Marc as "a phony," "a fraud," "an outsider," someone with "no real talent," and "too chicken" to do theater. Ted explains why such insecurities still exist for him, even after a lifetime of doing a job he loves. Ted also tells Marc about the quirks of being Larry David's friend, the reason CSI was a challenge for him, and his unique perspective on Sam Malone. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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fucksters? What's happening? I'm Mark Maronon this is my podcast wtf welcome to it closing in on the 900th episode closing in on the evacuation of the garage i don't know if that's the right word closing in on the the transition that's it the transition to the new garage to the garage with a bathroom yeah but it's a slow go it's a slow burn it's a slow process because uh i have the time i've given myself the time i i moved my entire house to the new house uh you know a few boxes at a time just uh not freaking out going through stuff uh you know well the big stuff i i got some help with but i got unloaded a lot of the big stuff but if you can do it that way which i guess most people can't it's really the way to do it just you know take a couple of months and just chip away and

that's sort of what's happening here in the garage i'm just starting to box some stuff up i'm doing some recording while I do it. And I'm having emotional reactions to everything that I put in the boxes. Some stuff is going. Some stuff is out. But it's been exciting. It's been exciting doing all the work on the house that I should have done while I was living in it. For my own happiness.

For whoever gets it. Right? Unless at the last minute I'm like, can't do it today is monday and today on the show is um ted danson is here ted danson who i you know honestly my first real recollection of ted danson right now he's in that mbc show called the good place and they just finished up their second season. You can watch episodes on demand and catch up with season one on Netflix if you'd like. But my first recollection of Ted Danson was in the movie Body Heat, Larry Kasdan's film noir with William Hurd and Richard Crenna.

And Ted Danson plays the fucking dancing DA. And I remember seeing him in that movie just thinking like, who is that guy? And I love William Hurt. And Danson just was right, just kind of held his own, man. And then later, obviously, he went on to Cheers and everything else.

But he was a great film actor. In that movie, he was tremendous. And I'm going to talk to him about that. Oh, yeah, he went on to Cheers and everything else. But he was a great film actor. In that movie, he was tremendous. And I'm going to talk to him about that. Oh, yeah, I wanted to read this email because I found this to be provocative to me because the guy is right. The guy is right. High school theater subject line. Hey, Mark. M-A-R-K.

It's fine. It's fine. I'm a retired high school drama teacher, and I have to say that as I catch up on the podcast, something that you have been saying is really bothering me. You have been verbally cringing with a number of guests about performing in high school plays. I think that memory and photos and even videos

do not begin to capture the experience of either the performers or the audience of a good production. The actual theater experience involves imaginative performers or the audience of a good production the actual theater experience involves imaginative work from the audience voluntarily suspending disbelief and participating in the event the physical factors crap beards dodgy costumes sets etc that make the pictures of productions look so bad are precisely the things we ignore when caught up in theater when it is working so don't put down your work as a student actor it might have been good after all

it might have been my best work buddy but he says or i'm full of shit and my work life was self-delusion and sadness thanks for reading this greg i think that greg makes a good point and i'm glad it turned around there at the end. Cause I thought he said I was condescending to high school productions. Maybe I have been a little bit, but having been in one or two, uh, you know, in those memories of that, like, what were we getting away with? Well, really the objective is to, to tell the story and enable, uh, the audience of whatever age or whatever their judgment is to, to engage in the story. Uh, I think a lot of times when you're in high school productions,

the parents are like, Oh, look at, they're so cute. But, but I do not think it is impossible or, or in any way, um,

a long shot that, you know, high school productions can be tremendous. You know, it's about getting into those characters and getting that story out there. I've been thinking a lot about actors lately. I've been thinking a lot about the profession itself. I've been thinking about the, the natural, if somebody has a natural capacity to, uh, to engage their vulnerability and their humanity within a

character, um, that, that is, uh, that's the gift. That's the gift, whatever the character is, it's really, what's important is being present, being vulnerable, and being, you know, sort of human in those roles, not stiff in any way. I'm going to talk to David Mamet later this week a little bit about that and about some other stuff. But nonetheless,

these are the things that's kicking around my brain, folks. This is it. This is it. There's always a lot going on in my mind and there is a bit going on around here in terms of transitions and repairs and and moving and grief in the sense of um moving on but uh i'm okay i ate three candy bars last night that's a that's a red flag someone keeps bringing boxes of candy bars to the comedy

store and putting them in the back for everybody and you know when i'm running around i did four sets the other night in the building why not slam a snickers why not slam a butterfinger even if that wasn't your candy bar i didn't even have a candy bar my mom did not made me so afraid of chocolate and sugar there was no fucking way I was going to eat a candy bar. Then I had a Rice Krispies treat. My neighbor when I was growing up, Gary, his dad had vending machines. So there was candy bars in his garage. Do you remember a candy bar?

Am I making it up? I think it was called 7-Up. It had nothing to do with the soda, but it had seven sections. And each section was a different type of candy bar like different type of filling is that right was it called seven something does it am i making this up let me know let me know please people because this is how i learn things all right so ted

danson uh this was a very exciting thing to me. He's a very pleasant guy. And I enjoyed, I enjoyed talking to him, hung out, never met him before. Almost met him on the red carpet at the SAG Awards. But I instead took a picture of the back of his head and posted it on Instagram because I'm an immature idiot. But this is me and Ted Danson doing the thing, doing the talking to each other. dancing, doing the thing, doing the talking to each other. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Are you self-employed? Don't think you need business insurance?

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Zensurance, mind your business. Thing. Oh, that was Siri? Do you engage Siri? I'll do wake-up calls with Siri. Oh, yeah? Yeah, I'll say, wake me in a half hour. Oh, does that work?

Yeah, and it really does. You can just do that? Yeah. See, there's so many things I don't know about anything, about my phone. And there's no way. You're not addicted then? No, I can't stop looking at the news and hurting myself. But I mean, I'm addicted in the sense that I need to update constantly on what's happening in the world. But in terms of actually using it as something, as a tool, you never know that stuff until you just told me.

I wouldn't have thought to do it, but why not not do it as opposed to set the clock with my fingers until someone teaches you anything you don't know how to use anything there's no manual for this shit and these things are so much smarter than us all of them that you don't know until someone goes oh you can just do that one thing and you're like i was doing nine things i didn't know i i was always that way if i if a model airplane or something if you had to read the instructions, then I was out. Yeah. Well, yeah, sure. I mean, I feel that way too.

Ikea furniture is a big challenge. Yes. Going to Ikea is a big challenge. Exhausting, dude. Exhausting. Home Depot, terrible. Terrible. Do you do that still or have you got people?

I actually, see, I love going shopping. I have tons of people, but I love going shopping. I love going to the supermarket. Yeah, me too. I love going to hardware stores. Hardware store is good. The best. Yeah, hardware store, supermarket's fine.

Home Depot, it's a whole other animal. You can't find anything. If you're there for a small item, it's a terrible experience. And you realize just how much you don't know about construction and how things are made. Yeah. So Santa Monica is where you drove from? Yes.

Yes. Rustic Canyon. Oh yeah. We just, do you know that area? I don't. God, it's like, it's below Will Rogers, uh, park below the Palisades and it's had rivers down there. Yeah.

They have redwoods. We have trees all over the place is it new do you just got it you just moved there you've been there a while no we've been there two or three years now and you it's just a complete wilderness feels that way you don't feel like you're in la you feel like you're in northern california oh that's great like big sir style yeah la style big sir and why why do i guess you got to stay here for business but how long how long have you been out here you've been out here kids we have kids how many kids from grandkids you have grandkids now yeah yeah that's what keeps you here and work right yeah do you

have another place in another estate yeah where's that uh back east martha's vineyard oh so you go there too yeah martha's vineyard that's nice we you go there too. Yeah. Martha's Vineyard. That's nice. We got married there. You and Mary? Me and my wife, Mary Steenburgen. The actress. The actress. I saw you at the SAG Awards. I didn't introduce myself.

I was literally right behind you on the line. And it was the first photo I took and Instagrammed was the back of your head. And I bet you didn't have to put my name. I get recognized in airports walking away from people. I thought that was what was great about it. It was clearly, there's no mistaking the back of your head. I literally will walk by people in an airport and they'll go, is that them? Then they'll walk past me and I realize they're looking at my bald spot.

They're going, yeah, that's him. It's not the bald spot. It's the shape of your head. And you're also nine feet tall. I mean, they're not going like, that's him it's not the bald spot it's the shape of your head and you're also nine feet tall i mean they're not going like that's the bald ted dancing they're saying that head is a signature head but why only from behind well you have a certain hairstyle i don't i don't think so because you've spent your life trying to avoid people seeing that right by being tall right but so they don't know but that's what people when i when I posted it, they're like, Ted's going to be mad at you

because of the bald spot. I'm like, no, he's not. It's about his head. That's my signature. You're keeping it up front. So the rest of it is the world's problem. How many kids do you have? I have two.

Mary has two. So we have four together and then three grandkids. Four together, but not together. Correct. Right. Both from previous marriages. Joined together. We have four kids. And how many grandkids? Three but not together correct right both from previous marriage joined together we have four kids and how many grandkids three that's exciting oh and they're all here they're all in yes around around and show business the kids um uh i'm trying to figure out in my uh

sleepy state forgive me i got three this morning for some crazy do you want you want that here's water there for you i would i would have offered you coffee but i don't have the capacity anymore there's nothing in my house no this is three in the morning you woke up that's me swallowing it was very good well done a lot of craft i did i did i made coffee so i'm you know he didn't try he's wearing off you didn't try to go back to sleep no no once i'm up i'm up really yeah it's nasty i woke i wake up earlier now too it drives me nuts yeah but not three's rough because it's not three it was crazy and for no reason you're just up yeah yeah um but what was the question show business kids in show business yeah and i was trying to figure out how much they're not crazy about it when i talk about

them all that much but no but let me go we have uh you know like charlie mcdowell yeah uh is a director oh yeah i saw him at a party i did not introduce myself you don't introduce yourself to many people to you no i do my family i do you know like um i i don't know what to say all the time do you know what i mean like sometimes that's my life yeah yeah because like i like i like i didn't know we were going to talk when i saw you at the thing the other day and you know if i introduce myself there's always the risk because you know i'm there on the red carpet but who am i really it's my own insecurity i'm gonna go hi ted dance i'm mark maron you're like nice to meet you you're not going to take the time to go

who are you what do you do are you with this are you you know what i mean i might have given you my generic hey well rehearsed with this white like slight red recognition almost it means everything makes people feel good it's familiar and clearly i know you right i wouldn't have given you that of course yeah very polished and i'm glad that you yeah that's the thing but the mcdowell kid i saw at a party with his his father who i would have liked to introduce myself but again malcolm mcdowell what am i going to say to him um good job yeah good job unbelievable man he was he was at the center of kind of British film when it made that amazing turn. Oh, Lucky, what was it? Oh, Lucky Man.

Oh, Lucky Man. And Clockwork Orange. Clockwork Orange, yeah. And then there's a long, that's what he's recognized for. For his life, he's going to be the guy from Clockwork Orange. Yeah, he's doing a lot of work, though. He's nonstop. No, no, he's great.

Yeah, yeah. No, you're right. Well, that's his story. But that's the interesting lot of work, though. He's nonstop. No, no, he's great. Yeah, yeah. No, you're right. Well, that's his story. But that's the interesting thing about you, man. I mean, you could have been Sam Malone for the rest of your life, but you're Ted Danson. That's not easy. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

No, I was lucky. I was lucky in that I found, I was lucky enough to be on really good writers. Yeah. And if the writers make a story that's compelling and a character that's interesting then you can get out of that typecast place you were can't i guess so you think that's what it is i i mean i think it depends what what people's relationship is with that character and although that relationship was you know you're really like i would imagine it's it's it's uh like for the other guys for the secondary characters on that show, the guys at the bar.

Right. Like, they're always going to be those guys. You know, Wendt and the postman guy, right? Right, John. Yeah. Like, you know, you're never going to disconnect them, but for some reason, though you were the center of that thing,

you've become Ted Danson. Well, a little bit because my character's job, my job as an actor was to let the audience in. Right. I wasn't supposed to be you were the portal yeah right the portal and not the crazy zany i was you were more sane you were the code you were the codependent at the center of the whole thing yes my job was to love everyone else and their craziness what a job yeah you know it's great because i truly do love them they were astounding yeah such a funny show

obviously i uh i've not i don't i don't think i've talked to any of the other people from that show but there's a weird thing about that show in me about cheers is that when i was in college in boston i went to that bar my freshman year like what time when did cheers start 82 you went to the bull and 82 was it the beginning so like 81 my freshman year of college we were just in boston me and this kid but renee and we went to that that place and uh ria perlman and danny devito were in the bar that night like looking at it scouting it because i guess it'd been written or pitched and you know she was going to be in it i don't know what their involvement was but we were there the night that they were there sitting there looking at it.

That's true. That's a true story because they did that. They did it, right? Yeah. And you saw them. That's amazing. I did. It was crazy because I didn't know anything.

I was like, that's Danny DeVito from probably Cuckoo's Nest was my point of reference. I have a weird point of reference with him. I thought he was amazing in Cuckoo's Nest. Unbelievable. As martini. Yeah. Just sitting there putting things in his mouth and like it's great so where did you come from where did i come from i came from how far back are we going all the way arizona

really i came from from san diego you were born in san diego yeah so you're a california guy california well right after the navy war is over guy so then we what your dad my dad was in the navy and so then we went to colorado then uh he was an archaeologist anthropologist my daddy for the navy you know what by the way if i if i had gotten a full eight hours sleep i wouldn't be any quicker this is this is i'm keeping you i'll keep you on top of it yeah he's an anthropologist before he went into the navy and then he continued his anthropology correct started teaching in tucson then university arizona yeah yep i like tucson it is did you actually the pretty much the coolest city in uh so you were a kid in tucson until i was about eight then we went to flagstaff arizona not so cool a little lean uh lean yeah now supposedly different because of the

university up there is like taking off oh really but i was outside the city i grew up uh three and a half four miles outside of flagstaff my father was the director of the museum and the research center. But it was a big deal because you go from 13,000 feet on the top of the San Francisco peaks all the way down to the bottom of the Grand Canyon. So every ology in the world goes there. Paleontology, everything, geology, archaeology. It's an amazing resource. And it was also dedicated to the Hopi, Navajo, Zuni, and Pueblo Indians.

Right. In that they wanted to stimulate their culture and make sure that it didn't go away, the arts and the crafts. So my best buddies growing up were all Hopi, Navajo, and ranchers. Really? Sons and daughters. Yeah, literally. I mean, it was like jump on a horse and come back at night kind of growing up you you rode horses yeah it was actually really genuinely cool that's amazing yeah and did you like did were you were you taken in in terms of uh as family or friends with with

the indigenous people i mean did you have an experience with that yeah yeah because that's a unique experience. It is. Especially the, well, the Hopi is what I knew more. My friend Raymond Coyne. The Hopi live basically on three mesas up in northern Arizona. And they've lived there forever. They never went to war with the United States. So they never got moved anywhere. Oh, really?

Yeah. So it's not a reservation by virtue of being moved. Correct. It's probably a reservation, but it was always there. And one of the oldest, the oldest inhabited village in the country is in Walpi, is in the Hopi Mesa. And you've been up there?

Yeah. And so I would go, you know if you could read a book about the Hopi and probably know more than I do but my best friends and I played in and out of the plazas where the kachinas would dance and you know. Oh yeah. It was really amazing. It's it is amazing to have a little bit I grew up in northern New Mexico I grew up in Albuquerque. Oh there you are. So well I mean but I mean I have that I grew up in Albuquerque. Oh, there you are. But I mean, I have that. I didn't have friends that lived on the reservation or were Indians. But you had the Pueblos.

Yeah, but the culture was there. You go to the state fair. You go to Indian Village. You eat the fried bread. You see the dance. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I think that's a very limited experience. I can't really call myself.

I've had some experience with the indigenous people of the United States. i went to the state fair and ate the bread and the spanish yes that's a very yeah albuquerque's i don't know i shouldn't call it tough but it is it is a little rough now it has been i don't know why do you shoot there ever uh i visited mary who shot there i've never shot there yeah yeah i mean when i when I grew up, I didn't know better. I mean, but there was always a sort of high violence rate, but it was not. I didn't notice it. Well, that came later. That came later.

I mean, I was out years ago. I don't have any real. How old are you? 54. 54. My dad's there. He's still in New Mexico, but he seems to, I don't know. He's managing to somehow be off the grid and still in it.

In Albuquerque or nearby? He's pretty much in Albuquerque by the mountains, but he lives in his own world with a little bit of Fox TV added. Does he listen to you? I don't think he, he claims he can't figure out how to do it. How to let his son in. Yeah, exactly. It's been eight years and, you know how to let his son in yeah exactly it's been eight years and you know when i wrote a book or that got to him but uh but the podcast not so

much yeah okay i you know you live with it you know if you got a dad that's weird it's just the way it is but your dad wasn't it sounds like no it sounds like he was a decent guy with a noble purpose he was a good guy he was he was a decent guy with a noble purpose. He was a good guy. He was a good guy. He loved people. He loved being around people. He was thoroughly embarrassing. I mean, you know, he was the guy who would tell his joke just a little bit louder in the restaurant, hoping that the table next door would get in on it.

And they would. Yeah. Good jokes. Didn't matter. They were just horribly embarrassing. Oh, so he liked bringing people in. Yes. If he didn't get two or three other tables enjoying his joke.

Yeah, that's good. Yeah, yeah. So he was a real center of attention guy. He was. But did he go on digs and stuff? Did you go on digs? Yes, I did. That was very cool.

Like in Tucson, there'd be the archaeological summer camp for the students up in the White Mountains, Apache Reservation, near Globe. And yeah, I'd be four or five years old. And they'd let the little kids play in the trash heaps, the ancient trash heaps. Oh, yeah. Where they'd throw the pots. Pieces of ceramics, yeah. 600 years ago, they'd throw the broken pots away.

And as soon as you found anything, though, if you found a you know or a piece of turquoise get out of the way kid you were out yeah let the pros in with the brooms and the dusters yeah but you find little shards of pottery and stuff pottery yeah i could i was so good that i could spot on horseback i could spot turquoise beads riding without getting off I got your eyes were that good huh yeah and you knew where to look yeah you know ant hills you'd look at they do the digging yeah they do the digging for you and then you spot these oh that's a good trick for people that are into that yeah the ant hills if you they've already done some of the work for you but what

it sounds like you had a, were you riding bareback? Yes. Come on. My father wouldn't let me ride with a saddle unless I was with another person. On my own, I had to ride bareback. Why? The fear is if you fall, you get hung up on a saddle. And dragged?

And get really hurt. Oh. But if you fall bareback, you break something and you're fine. Oh, man. So when was the last time you got on did you have to do any horse i don't remember you in a movie where you had to ride a horse not really i did uh i did one uh movie called cowboy tv movie cowboy yeah i got to tear us around on a horse did you impress everybody did it come right back to you? Is it like riding a bike? A little bit. The technique is

like riding a bike. Your body though, you know, it's like, no, get off, get off. Don't do this. These days are over. Yeah. Yeah. And horses, if you have a great horse, then you have a chance of being a good rider. But if you have a bony, you know, poorly gated horse, you're just in trouble. I'm terrified of them. I went to a camp up in Pecos where we were assigned a horse. Pecos, New Mexico. It's pretty up there. Gorgeous.

Great, great fishing. Yeah, yeah. Trout fishing, right? In the river there, the Pecos River. But yeah, I was assigned a horse and it bit me

and I just can't stand them. I can't. I'm too scared and they know it and it's terrible. They do because they have the brain the size of a walnut

but intuition. Is it really a. They do because they have the brain the size of a walnut, but intuition of the wazoo. Is it really a walnut size? Yeah, a little brain, but totally intuitive. Yeah, well, that's it with their animals. Yeah. Right? Here comes Mark who's terrified. Yeah, yeah, they know.

Cats, I have several cats and they all have different personalities and they all sort of act in response in reaction to me. Like I always wondered, like, why do I get all these skittish weird cats? I didn't blame myself for years i just i had bad luck and i'm like clearly making them all nervous i'm feeling a little skittish not bad i'm calming down yeah i'm calming down well it's like it was you know it's a long drive and you don't know what you're getting into and it feels odd like why am i in this neighborhood?

What is this neighborhood? No, I was actually kind of excited. I was terrified that I was going to be sleepy, tired, crazy brain. By the way, I listened to Richard Jenkins, who's just one of my favorite actors. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's something, huh? Yeah. My wife, Mary, worked one of my favorite actors. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's something, huh? Yeah. My wife, Mary, worked with him on Step Brothers.

Oh, yeah, yeah. They were just great together. She's very funny in that movie. That's a goofy movie. I like- He can do anything. He can. It seems like you as well can, and I think that he can.

It seems like, because I think about the first time i saw you was in body heat and i remembered it because i you know i was sort of a film a little bit nerdy in in high school but like when body i was a huge william hurt fan came out uh when and and lawrence casden you know as well i i i don't know why i was into him but we were excited about body heat when i was in high school what was that like 80 what 80 yeah 79 yeah about 80 you're right yeah and like you know i was like who's that guy who's the dancing da and i'm not a dancer but what we had was a writer's strike or somebody struck some you oh really and what went from a two week rehearsal became a two month rehearsal and

we just kept rehearsing until the strike was over and then we went and shot it so you actually learned how to dance yeah you had a choreographer who worked with me for two months we'd go into parking lots and learn how to dance off car bumpers or you know it's interesting that it was a a decided uh you know uh character behavior oh it was written in no in the script you can literally take that script and that you auditioned with and go to the movie and conduct it like a score literally everything is in it he he wrote it rewrote it he storyboarded the film so that we would shoot a half a master a third of a close-up because he just literally knew every shot that he and he's a smarty yeah he's really smart like he's sharp you know it was like it was it's it's challenging thing to do a film

noir in the in the modern world because so many of them fall flat you know when you think of contemporary film noirs or even you know post film noir time you know you get you come up with chinatown it's always chinatown yeah right so now you've got la confidential chinatown and body heat i think are solid yeah for that for the for the genre but i i there have been other ones the music was amazing in body heat i'm trying to remember yeah it's kind of dramatic i think much i think it Williams. I think it was. But how do you get into acting? Do you have siblings? Yes, I have a sister, Jan, who I just spoke to on the way here.

Is she all right? She's good. What does she do? She's married. She's very involved in the Episcopal Church. Oh, yeah? Which, in the case of her church, means she's working with migrant workers a lot and immigration issues and things like that in Arizona.

Did you grow up Episcopal? I did, yes. I was an acolyte, yes. Is that what they're called? Yeah. What does that mean? The guys that come out before the priests and light the candles. Oh, it's an acolyte in the Episcopal?

I don't know anything about the Episcopal Church. Where does that come from? It's a, well, I probably, I don't know if this is accurate or just a joke, but it's like a watered-down version of Catholicism. Oh, so it's a... It's very, very next door. Oh, rooted in Catholicism.

It's the Church of England, so the Pope is So the Pope is not the be-all, end-all. I got it. Yeah. Religious upbringing? You know, church every Sunday. Oh, yeah? But it wasn't something that was preached at us. Right.

You weren't brought up terrified of hell? No, no. It was a happy place. Some of my best friends went there and community thing yeah yeah yeah i've talked to other people but i also was at the same time i was going to church every sunday i was going to the hopi dances and watching people worship their gods yeah the same way they had in the same place for the last 500, 600 years, and it was very real. So it was never my way or the highway when it came to spirituality. And you registered that at that age, though?

You registered that? I don't think like I am right now talking to you, but, yeah. I mean, it was. This is how they worship. Yeah. And this is how we do it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Much different. We had Mormons around and all of that. I felt a little sad for the Mormons. Mormons around. Because they were around in pockets. They had come down from, they had drifted south of Utah. They ended up in southern New Mexico, too, I think, in Silver City. And, yeah, the Mormons are spreading out.

I had a couple, handful of friends at an early age. I felt sad that only Mormons got to go to heaven because that must have made him feel kind of bad playing with us so i remember thinking i'm that's in the book that's in the book of mormon that only mormons go to heaven i think basically that's why they're so good with ancestry i shouldn't be saying they i don't really know what i'm talking about but no they are great at ancestry. Because I think if you- They got a hollowed out mountain with everybody's name in it. Because if I marry, if I'm a Mormon, I marry non-Mormons, then it would be horrible if

you would be saying to your bride that none of your parents are in heaven. Yeah, yeah. So you can retroactively get everybody in. Oh, that's it. That's what the, yeah. I know it's a,'s a i go to salt lake to work sometimes and i'm i'm i'm fascinated with the whole thing they're they're they're they're generally pretty pleasant oh and do amazingly good deeds out in the world yeah and

they put their actions sure sure yeah they they're they tend to go a little republican but you know what are you gonna do yeah what are you gonna do uh so all right so how do you get into acting uh so i go to oh so um my sister goes away this is in arizona and we didn't have great school systems at that point and i was a lazy student my sister was going away to wellesley oh that's a good school yes My rancher friends who had been homeschooled were then being sent away to school. And I was like, wait, whoa, whoa, don't leave me behind. And so it was my idea. But at age 13, I was sent away or got to go away to Kent School for Boys, which was an Episcopal church school. Where?

In Kent, Connecticut. Oh, really? Yeah. That's a big shift it was like that's like little outfits uh kids who didn't have a horse experience yeah kids or they had very expensive horses that knew how to jump oh they had those yeah so that was always a full range mostly really rich kids or what no you know what it was really interesting you paid how much you could pay it was on a sliding scale so you had kids from the inner city you had the son of the head of ford motor company you know yeah it was a huge range yeah and so what what was it and you were 13 i was 13 that's pretty pivotal time all boys all boys it's a miracle

you're looking at a miracle yeah after an all boys school it's uh but you sought it out yeah i did you wanted to get out because your friends were leaving and i just thought it sounded adventuresome i got to get on a santa fe super chief and oh you took the train all the way across all the way across because that's exciting snowing so much in the winter yeah it was easier to do that. By yourself, you went on the train? Uh-huh. Oh, at 13?

Oh, it was amazing. Steward took care of you? Yeah. Kept an eye out? Or you'd go to the dining room. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I was 14 when it started.

That's it. It's great. You'd end up and you'd go to Chicago. Then you'd take the 20th Century Limited down to Grand Central. And then you'd have an hour hour and a half to get on the commuter line yeah no you'd go to Times Square yeah just go oh my god yeah oh my god this is in the 60s yeah oh my god yeah where am I and then you'd run back to Grand Central and you'd get on this special two-car train

that took you to Kent School for Boys. Right to the school? Yeah, and you never left until the holiday. You couldn't go to town. You couldn't do anything. It was just very strict. The train is so great. I took it after college.

I had some sort of romantic beatnik idea about taking the train from New York to New Mexico. And I crapped out in Austin. I was like, I'm getting on a plane. So did you go to Chicago and then down? Yeah. I went to Chicago and I think all the way down to Memphis and across the bottom.

Oh, oh, oh, Southern Pacific. Yeah, yeah, because I know I ended up in Memphis. But Chicago was great. It's a great station to go into. It must have been much different, though, in the 60s. Oh, incredible. It was still beautiful, but it was you know this was 1987 was it amtrak by then uh yeah yeah it was definitely amtrak because back when it was not amtrak yeah

when it was you know the santa fe yeah it was just sort of had some linens and silverware and really chefs that made meals and no kidding. Yeah, it was really spectacular. Oh, that's a great experience to have had. So you go to the boys' school. What are you, sportsman? Basketball saves my life. I just loved it. It was my passion.

You killed in the basketball. In a small school kind of way. It was pretty good. And then Stanford, I went to Stanford University. That's good. You got into a good college after all. But literally. Yeah.

Did nothing. At Stanford or to get there? Both. It was all basketball? I was never a, I'm not a great student. Yeah. But because I kind of know I'm not a great student, I'm kind of, uh, I don't really care about tests and exams.

I find them kind of like a puzzle, kind of fun, because I'm probably not going to do great on it. Right. I don't beat myself up about that. Really? So I test really high. So I used to get into things. You test high just because you like to be challenged by them,

but you don't freak out about it. Yes. Yeah. You like to be challenged by them, but you don't freak out about it. Yes. I got into advanced placement English at Stanford University because of tests I took at the end of Kent. And my teacher at Kent said, for someone who has the least amount of native intelligence, you got one of the highest scores. of native intelligence. Yeah.

You got one of the highest scores, which is a problem because then I went to the advanced placement English class, freshman, Stanford, and not only could I not understand what the professor was saying, I had no idea

what the student next to me had even asked them. I was so over my head. Really? Yeah. An advanced placement English? Yeah. What could have been so cryptic?

I have no idea. Maybe. Were you speaking middle English? The combination of words so I have no idea maybe maybe speaking middle English combination of words I don't know I mean I have not had the experience with English except for middle English when you're reading those old poems you know I'm fairly smart

yeah but I'm not I'm not someone who can impress you with my intelligence sure no I get it I get it yeah yeah but people who impress you with their intelligence sure no i get it i get it yeah yeah but people who impress you with their intelligence usually are boring as batshit sometimes yeah i think that's true or else they make you feel like they're trying to impress you with their intelligence then right i'm out the ones that i shouldn't make generalities the ones that i enjoy the most

yeah or appreciate the most of the people that don't make me feel stupid right that their ideas no matter how brilliant are communicated to me in a way absolutely i go oh wow of course i understand or they might or they encourage or they sort of spark you to be like i gotta figure out what the fuck that was because if i'm not understanding your communication and you're communicating to me then fuck you right and if you're doing that on purpose, fuck you again. Yeah. You're trying to condescending fucker. Yes. I know exactly that feeling. It happens less as we get older, though, doesn't it? To which?

Being condescended to by super smarties. Yes, you know, you do get a pass if you've been around. I've reached the Mr. Danson stage of my career, and I'm getting a lot of passes. I really am. That's what you work for. You know, things you used to bother you don't anymore and people give you a pass it's the freedom of aging so when do you get into acting how does that happen okay then i go to stanford and i think basketball basketball so what position do you play uh forward yeah at six two yeah and that's short right yeah very short and could i and maybe on a

good day touch the rim so we're not talking about a jumper yeah we're not talking any real skills to be honest just loved it passionate yeah so i show up this is but this is a theme where you're both in in scholastic work just passion and the challenge of tests, and then with basketball. I have no real talent at anything, really, except I'm a great appreciator. I appreciate like crazy. I will make you feel good.

I'm a good cheerleader. But that's really basically what I have to offer the world. I will appreciate the hell out of you. Yeah, but no, do you have a talent? Let's not diminish the- But look at, the first thing I talked to you about was Sam Malone and his job, my job as an actor, was to appreciate the people around me. Right. I'm really good at that.

Okay, but you know, you've done other parts, so let's not come unglued here. All right, I'm being a little silly. No, you're not being silly. I mean, as a creative person and as somebody and an actor, I would imagine if you think too much about it, you're like, what do I do? What do I do? You know what I mean?

But you obviously have a talent. Yes, I like make-believe. I like to pretend. There you go. I like, yes, of course. That is essentially what acting is. Yes. I like make-believe. I like to pretend. There you go. I like, yes. And that is essentially what acting is. Yes, of course. So you're at Stanford and-

Pretending that I'm a basketball player and I go out. But it seems like he actually did that. He pulled it off. No. I went to the freshman tryouts for freshman basketball the same year that Lou Alcindor was a freshman at UCLA. So I didn't even step on the court. I came up to the kind of the line and I just watched these people play for about

two minutes and turned around and sobbed a little choked, choked back tears. And then, uh, about a year and a half later at Stanford stumbled into an audition following some girl I wanted to take out who had an audition. And I went, can I come with you? And it was just like light bulbs, music. Yeah? Sledgehammer over the head. It was just, oh.

It was just for the non-theater school production of something? Like what was it for? For the non-theater school production of something? Like, what was it for? It was for Bertolt Brecht's Mann, East Mann. Wow. And I got the smallest part. You could get in it and still be in the play.

It was kind of cool there because they had, for about three or four years at Stanford, they had a small repertory of professional actors there. Yeah. And so they would help teach classes it was really an amazing time but then everyone said and i pulled up my station wagon to the back of the studio theater and slept there i just never left literally i never went to any other classes i just and people said if you're serious you should go back east then i went to carnegie mellon to really seriously study acting so you you finished at Stanford and then?

No, I transferred after two years. To Carnegie Mellon? That's a big one. Yeah, that was like Juilliard, Northwestern. So was it an undergraduate program or a graduate? Undergraduate. So you stayed there another, what, a couple years? Three and a half years, yeah.

As a transfer student, I could leave in three years. And that was where you put the craft together. That's where you learned how to do it. Well, kind of. Kind of. And then New York I studied again. I studied with a student of Sandy Meisner, who was the neighborhood playhouse. Sure.

One of the great teachers. Yeah, Meisner. Meisner Method. Yeah. I've, Meisner. Meisner Method. Yeah. I've talked to people about the Meisner Method. You have? Yeah. Yeah.

Repetition. Repetition. Yeah, looking at each other. Words over and over again. You got a mustache. I have a mustache. You have a mustache. I have a mustache.

You have a mustache. I have a mustache. Yeah, you're resigned to your mustache. And we're out. We just lost everyone. No, I got it. That's good. That's the best Meisner answer I've ever done.

But you found that helpful. Totally. That kind of changed. I loved everything at Carnegie and learned a great deal. But you were in movement. But Carnegie is like structured, right? Yes. You had dance.

You had voice. You had speech. you had acting you had everything but we got to get up and act every day you got up and acted so you got to play leads and everything so no i never did it's weird how is that possible i know see this is the phony fraud part of my brain when it comes to acting i was never in a shakespearean play uh As soon as people start talking about Shakespeare, I start to sweat and think, I hope nobody asks me anything. Yeah, in the same way. I'm out.

Yeah. Yeah. So that makes you feel like a fraud? Little bit. The Shakespeare thing? Little bit. You've never, and to this day? I mean, I love acting so much.

I love being part of this community. Yeah. And I always, this is acting so much. I love being part of this community. Yeah. And I always, this is probably true for many actors, I always feel a little bit outside of the group. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Well, who do you consider to be the group?

Like, who's the head of the group right now? I don't know. You know, it's- I'm not sure. I imagine that group changes. I'm not sure, but they can talk acting forever. Yeah? And directors and writers.

I get a little bored. Right. Wait, I'm talking. I have to see if I really believe what I'm saying. I do feel like an outsider when it comes to serious actors oh that's true huh but theater new york uh right bill hurt bill who uh william who i you know i'm correcting you and you know him and you call him bill and i just want to make sure people know who you're talking about i call him william i don't know what william hurt was for me a source

of guilt for a long time i should never never use anyone like that. But it was like, what would Bill Hurt do? Oh, he wouldn't take this part. Well, who cares? I get that. I can see that. So you do body heat with him. And at that time, he was like- Altered states.

Altered states. He was huge. He was huge because I remember reading- I was into him. And I remember reading a Rolling Stone article about him. This sort of tormented, intense, the big chill. But the weird thing is that as people get older, their craft or whatever they are, it becomes rooted in a personality. And you can start to see their tics and habits that are repeated throughout roles.

And their range varies. But you start to see the person as just a person. Yes. And it's sort of interesting. I don't know if you found that. No, that's true. We have very few character actors who totally disappear of Alec Guinness.

Or Meryl Streep. And she doesn't totally disappear, but she's pretty close. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, but she's pretty close. Yeah. That's true. Yeah, but it seems like most actors are people that, even like Richard Jenkins, who's a great character actor, but he doesn't, he's not.

I remember you guys talking about that. Yeah, he just shows up. Yeah. And you wear a different outfit. The make-believe circumstances are different. Right. He's very practical about it. Yeah. I mean, it's a different type. I don't know. different outfit this yeah the make-believe circumstances are different right and right he's very practical about it yeah it's i mean it's a different type i i don't know like i imagine the biggest challenge for actors is to realize that they are of this type of actor that you know there

are types of actors their approaches are different and you know and some people have you know are just you know freaks in terms of what they can or can't do or what they want to challenge themselves with. But a lot of people just sort of like, I like to play guys, you know, that do things. You know what I mean? You need those guys. I usually suck the material down to my level. Pull it down to me.

But it's interesting, though, because it didn't seem like at the beginning you were necessarily going to be a comedic actor. And now you're like a funny guy. Yeah, but I'm the funny guy who makes your really funny material funny. I don't fuck up your funny material. If your material is not funny, I'm not the guy who's going to make it funny. And some people can't. Some people can just literally.

You're also good at playing off really funny guys. Yes. Yeah. You're a straight man. Yes. I know what to do with Larry David. Right. I know how to push him into a corner until he explodes and comes out more Larry.

Do you do that in real life? Yes. Acting with Larry is very much like going out to dinner with him. You guys are friends? Yes. And you love him, so you want to make them laugh and you usually do it by insulting them somehow.

Oh yeah. Well there are people that that comes through as affection somehow. That you know once you can disarm them enough to where they laugh what they really want to do is cry. He's really a generous laughter. A lot of people who do stand up are not necessarily generous laughter. Takes them a while. I stand-up are not necessarily generous laughter.

Takes them a while. I think that what, you know, I've done stand-up my whole life and I didn't really start laughing again until I felt better about myself. So it's really hinging on whether or not that stand-up will either feel, you know, some sort of enough self-esteem to be comfortable laughing at others. Yes, that's true. It's really smart. It can either last a lifetime or maybe it gives way eventually and you realize you like to laugh yeah the real problem with stand-ups is like you get so jaded and you spend so much time in comedy clubs that you only laugh when someone else is doing badly there is something wonderfully funny though when a moment goes wrong even if you're in

that moment yeah it's not just other people i mean we used to have hysterics on cheers when something all week had been killer right funny yeah and then you you deliver the killer funny in the audience is like you can hear a pin drop nothing and it's like falling into through a trap door and it's so fucking funny that you just fell through a trap door that we would all roll on the ground with hysterics and the audience wouldn't know why no you got cocky you got well that's so funny because i was thinking like becker that character becker that you did for a long time too that i mean those are the two shows you did the longest right cheers and becker yeah yeah he's sort of a glary david character in a way the kind of cranky you know guy that's annoyed at everything dave hackle wrote that

and it was such a it was so good after having such a you know a memorable sam malone like character yeah it was great to have something that was equally strong in a different direction yeah and how do you how do you like approach roles so i mean like as an actor do you make decisions i mean what are the decisions you make i mean when you're not playing yourself which is never because basically i say i play sam malone became a doctor sam malone works for the police you started sam malone you started sam malone you don't start a ted danson no it's all sam how would sam handle this how shall i do my hair but like sam do my hair but you know with larry you're you're an elevated out party of yourself

but it's not really you right no what you know what i do it's not really larry either i met him once i'd like to interview him but he doesn't seem to want it but uh i met him once he's a lot nicer than he is uh he's got a huge heart of gold. Mary once told him and almost brought tears to his eyes. She said, if I were ever really in trouble, you'd be one of the first people I'd ever call. He has a huge generous heart of gold.

Very sweet. He hides it well. Yes. No, no. He is looney tunes when it comes to social niceties. He does things like, let's all go out to dinner. Great. And we all show up at the time at 8.30 and he is sitting at the table halfway through his entree because he decided he'd rather do something else later that evening. And as you sit down, he's saying goodbye. Really? And literally, without any problem.

You won't accept invitations to people's homes for dinner anymore because it's too hard to get out of. In a restaurant, you can do what he does. So there's part of you that just wants to go grab him by the lapels and throw him on the ground. What the fuck's the matter with you? So you do it with humor, Right. But that's your job. So you just have to put up with that. Or make fun or laugh or poke holes. But you're talking about it like this is a person that he's got this weird problem

where we're all his friend and we just didn't have to adapt to it. Part of you admire it too. Yeah, right, right. Because you kind of wish you had come early and had your entree but what do you all just sit there without him then he just goes away and then yeah and that's just the way he is that's just the way he is so let me go back and answer your question

because i approaching roles yeah i if you have to learn how to do something you know shoot a bow and arrow and you're not good at it so you you practice. Right. You practice this stuff you don't know how to do. I should say, not you, but I practice this stuff I don't know how to do. Right. But then to me, if it's really good writing, I just keep trying on the words over and over and over and over and over and over again. And the words start to play you. Interesting.

They're good words. Yeah. They start to play you kind of like an instrument. Right. Just go with where they're leading you. Right. And good writing does that. Good writing is just delicious.

You just hop on board. I think that's true, yeah. Right, and you just kind of work it until it locks in because all the emotions should be in that, right? They should be there somewhere. Yes. Right?

Yeah. And good writing they are. And like I would imagine then when in playing, like in like Bored to Death or playing comedy that isn't three camera comedy but has a little breath to it, you play it straight, right? You're not milking anything. No. You realize the idiosyncrasies of the character. Like the character in Bored to Death is a very odd, wealthy man, right?

Yes. And the dynamic between you and Schwartzman was great. But, you know, that character was like, what's wrong with this guy? A little bit. But, you know, it was very earnest. And it was perfect for me. That's the other thing. If you're lucky, you find roles that are slightly, you know, that are perfect for what you're going through in life.

And that was me at 60 going, I still want to be relevant. Don't leave me behind. What are you guys doing? I want to be with you. You guys are young. I want to be, you know. Yeah. I want to colonoscopy.

So it worked out. Yeah. But when you do something like, I mean, you did like 80 some odd episodes of CSI. Ooh, that was hard. The people were incredibly sweet. Yeah. I really, I loved going to work. Yeah.

But it was so hard because it was like, it was like doing a soap opera. Yeah. You know. Which you have done before. Which I had done. And it was the scariest, ever scariest acting I've ever been involved with. Was that like your first job? Yeah.

Why was it scary? Because there's no humor. Yeah. You know, there's no, you know, if you were to hiccup or something, you would bring the tape to a grinding halt. Right. And you were repeating yourself. You know, the scenes where you remember what I said to you just like two seconds ago, and

how I reacted that way. You know, so there's nothing natural about it. You're imparting information that you want the audience to remember. And that's the same thing on CSI. You are constantly wanting them to follow each little scientific detail. So if you tell a joke or try to be funny at the end of a scene yeah that gets cut because you don't want people laughing at the end of the scene you want them remembering so they can do the weird and suspenseful music yeah and then so But why'd you do it?

Partly to see if I could. Partly because I had a home in Martha's Vineyard that we were going to have to sell. Yeah, and you didn't do it? And this sounds disrespectful. I made great friends, loved the writers, and I'm so grateful for what CSI gave me. Right, good job. But it was one of the hardest.

It's also true. It's one of the hardest jobs that I've ever done for me, Ted. Right. And it also paid me really well. So that sounds cynical or bad, but it was great. They were very kind. Yeah. I mean, you're in a position where a job that is challenging and it may not seem like the

thing you want to do is something that is available to you. And as an actor, you can do it. It's an acting job. Yeah. And it taught me a lot. It taught me. I kind of bob and weave. And usually, my characters or me are tilted a little bit to one side or the other.

I'm never just John Wayne straight up and down. Right. You had to be straight up and down doing CSI. Yeah. You know, you were supposed to be a leaning man. You weren't supposed to be bobbing and weaving. You were supposed to be standing and delivering. Holding your ground.

Yes. Yeah. Which is terrifying to me. So, I learned a lot by doing it. Holding your ground. It's hard, huh? Oh, I understand that but you like you came up doing all these like little like you were on all the weird little tv shows yeah vernon shirley benson magnet like you were doing bit parts yeah after what was it after

new york you just came out here and dug in yep i would believe it i would in new york uh i'd be doing something a play yeah and i would'd be doing something, a play. Yeah. And I would go be an extra in a commercial. I really didn't care. I didn't care if I was acting in class or acting being paid. All I wanted to do was act. And truthfully, that's still my truth.

Yeah? You love it. Maybe not the pay part. I like being paid a little bit. Right, no, pay's great, you know, but like it's interesting because you know i started doing it a little more you know coming this new show glow on on netflix and i'd done a show that was centered around me for ifc but like i kept trying to think as a comic and as a guy who does what i'm doing now and it's just a kind of a guy who just engages spontaneously in things the job of acting, the one thing that I locked into

was that when, you do a lot of sitting around and you do a lot of coverage and you know that. Right. So if you like acting a lot, you have to sort of be excited every time when it's your turn.

Right. Right? You can't just be like, oh, fuck. Right. So you really, and I started to realize that.'m like instead of like complaining that you know to myself that i'm i'm here for 13 hours yes and i'm shooting maybe three minutes

yeah of this that like when i do get my shot i should enjoy it because that's the fun of acting yes but that's tv too and live tv is different than not live TV. Yeah. But you don't do a lot of stage shit, do you? Uh-uh. None. No. I'm too chicken. At this point, I'm too chicken.

I'd do it if Mary and I could find something to do together. Yeah. And it wasn't about needing to fill the coffers kind of thing, but just go off and do something together. I would do it. Yeah. the coffers kind of thing but just go off and do something together i would do it uh-huh um yeah i had i had one of those stick your finger in a light socket zap uh on stage uh maybe 10 years ago you know the atlantic theater i do in new york yeah mammoth's place yeah yeah and neil peppy uh mary mccann yes anyway they were doing a two uh maybe a month of uh celebrating all their 25 years of being in business and so they had 25 playwrights uh-huh right anything they

wanted it could be 20 minutes long could be a musical be one act whatever you want write it um and they asked me if i'd be part of it so i did and i got a 20 minute monologue right that was brilliant yeah it wasn't a lot of rehearsing you just kind of throw it together and then you do it for a week right and i saw i came in to rehearse for a day with neil pepe the artistic director And I saw someone performing that night, their bit. Yeah. And he went up, because there's no real rehearsal. He went up for a line. So he called for a line.

And instead of it being whispered from the stage, it was in the back of the house from the booth over a microphone. So there was no hiding. And I thought, oh, fuck. Okay, I better at least be clever if I have to ask if we're in line. So this was a 20-minute, speedy, fast, verbal monologue. Yeah. About a guy, he's trying to remember how his day started.

Yeah. And he's troubled, and he's trying to work something out. And by the end of the day, he's starting to remember in his recounting his day that he actually, that his basement in his home is hell. The literal hell. He walks downstairs into hell every night. This is the conceit of the monologue. Yes. Right.

So anyway, I psyched myself out opening night. I walked out and literally probably 9.5 seconds in to this 20-minute monologue, I just freeze. And it is like sticking your finger in a light socket. My entire body went with adrenaline. Room full of people? Yes, room full of people. My entire body went, you know, with adrenaline. Room full of people? Yes, room full of people. My daughter's there. Oh, my poor daughter, she's watching this.

Should I cry? Fuck, I can't believe this. I'm so mad. Don't be mad. You're going to have to think of something. You know, in a split second, your mind just freaks. I could get up and leave. No, I can't.

So I say to Darcy, the- In the booth? In the booth, stage manager. Darcy, what happens next? That's your opening. Yeah. So Darcy has just sat down with her coffee going, you know, hasn't even opened the book probably.

Oh, jeez. Thumbs through. Tries to find my line. But she gives me the line that I had just finished saying before I forgot the next line. Yeah. So like an idiot, I took that and said the one line and then went, actually, Darcy, it's the next line I need. Oh, I had so much adrenaline running through my body that my poor daughter afterwards,

and it was actually brilliant because I was so panicked. I was actually as panicked as my character, you know. Yeah. Afterwards. Yeah. Afterwards. After the 9.7.

But you got through it? I got through it and it was all fine and good and I did it for the week. But my daughter literally had to walk me around a block in new york drinking like one of those huge liter bottles of water because i had so much toxic adrenaline in my body i was like shaking i was shaking wow so when you say you're going to do another play part of my body kind of when was that 10 years ago that happened 10 years ago yeah let me just do a quick Neil Pepe sweet Neil Pepe

the artistic director right saw it happen and he said after the show why don't you come with me and we'll go to the stage a half hour early

and we'll work together because you had to do this how many times five nights in a row and he sat me down and I did the monologue and literally every time I got to that 9.5

second mark, that word, my body just jolted to a stop and he just got me to say it over and over and over and over and over and over. Just because of that experience of the first, the trauma, the trauma, it was like post traumatic stress. It was so that, that night when I did it, my body went at that same place. But he had taught my mouth to keep flapping that I got past it. Interesting. Yeah.

Saved my life. Anyway. But did you ever do extensive stage work? In New York, I did a year and a half of Tom Stoppard 2-1 acts after Magritte and The Real Inspector Hound. And they were some of the funniest parts that year. But that was it. Then I did a Broadway one-night stand, the open and close in one night.

Oh, really? And I did some theater in the park. But that was it. Uh-huh. Yeah. Did you like doing that? Yeah. No, I mean, and everything I did at Carnegie Mellon was theater training. Yeah. theater in the park but that was it uh-huh yeah did you like doing that or yeah no i mean and

everything i everything i did at carnegie mellon was theater training yeah it was it was meant to send you out in the repertory company world and we just didn't we all went to new york but it might be fun to do something with mary it would it would it is fun but it is so all-consuming. If you do a play at night, you wake up preparing for that. Here we go. Yeah, yeah. And I would hate to be with my wife, who I love hanging around and doing nothing with. Oh, and turn it. And turn it into a neurotic day.

Yes. Yeah. No. But if we did it together, it'd be all right. You hope. Maybe don't push it. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Yeah. Let it happen. Don't steer yourself in the wrong direction you know your things are going all right so you know the um how many times is your uh how many times you've been married three yeah this is a good one though right yes okay you get along with the other ones uh you don't need to uh first marriage was if if it had been emotionally mature and honest it would have been hey i'm scared we met at carnegie oh okay got married there it was like hey i'm scared to go to new york by myself are you oh great let's let's get an apartment together yeah that would have been the truth right somehow we got married

so remain good friends don't see each other but you know left no kids with that one actually the the no and the separation moment was brilliant because she was learning how to sign yeah uh the death oh yeah for a part oh yeah she was doing at the circle and the rep and so she would work on it and then she would teach me and we would be doing stuff for a couple months. Signing? Yeah, signing. And finally one night I said, let's have a real conversation because I'll probably follow more closely if it's real.

And 45 minutes later we were separated. You didn't sign? Yeah. Because you didn't have time. You didn't have words to dick around with you know a surplus of words so you just got right to it and that's what she chose to do yeah we we both did and it was very sweet because it was like the question was where do you want to be five years from now and both of us came up with somewhere else knowing you were okay yeah it's very sweet oh wow yeah that seems that that would have liked to have seen that yeah that

whole that's that that that seems like an interesting device for a a play yeah people learning sign and then only being able to have that like really communicate emotionally yeah because you can't cheat yeah you can't manipulate yeah or yeah exactly or squirm out of it yeah weasel your hands don't lie that's right that's really that's something and the second wife you had a couple kids couple kids yes 15 years and uh then met mary and uh oh yeah yeah oh that's right you had that thing with whoopie too yeah that's yeah that's accurate yeah there's so many everyone's still uh uh you know up and around and walking so it's very hard to talk about sure but uh uh it was a big moment in my life do you guys are you guys friends uh not really i mean nothing Not really. I mean, nothing unfriendly went on, but no, no.

You know, unless your previous, the person you're dating or with or whatever embraces your new person you're with and you all become these best buddies, you're not going to stand up. Right. Well, yeah, as long as it's not hostile. No. Because I ask people a lot of times i assume everyone like but i look at my own life and i'm like how many friends do you really

have i mean you know a lot of people and you may have had relationships with a lot of people but how many do you really have time how many are you talking to yeah three four two yes and then occasionally you're like holy shit that guy called yes I haven't talked to him in six years. I love that guy. You have a lot of people you go, hey. When I see you next time in line on a red carpet, I'll give you a hey, and I'll give you also a hug. Oh, good. Which will buy some time for me to go, Mark. Mark. Dude.

We had such a good time in the garage. How's everything going? Good for you. All right. So, all right. So, you know, NBC was kind of funny about The Good Place. And my girlfriend loves the show. And they were funny in that they were, I felt like they were, oh, I wanted to ask you something else, though, before I got to that.

You worked with Jack Lemmon. I did, yes. Yeah. In a movie called, it was funny, there was a period where you were going to be the new guy in the movies, in the 80s,

the funny movies. Yeah, I finished that. Yeah. Yeah, I handled that. Like there's some, like I was looking through your stuff and I'm like,

a fine mess with Howie Mandel. That was both of you. That was the big shot, right? Yeah, that did not go well. I was thrilled that I got to work with Blake Edwards, who was like a legend. Yeah. But no, he was kind of depressed.

Blake was? Yeah, I mean, for real. I think he had Epstein-Barr or something like that. So he would come out of his trailer. That was popular for a while. Yeah, it was. He came out of his trailer and he'd say, let me see what you're going to do.

And this was rehearsal. For bit, comedy bits. No, for the movie. Yeah. And so we would run the scene and he goes, is that how you want to do it? Yes. And he'd go, okay, light it and walk off.

He'd come back to the set once it was lit and he'd say, action. And you would do the scene, he'd say, and he'd walk back to his trailer. And Blake Edwards, his kind of style was that roving master where something, people would be talking in the foreground and something funny would be happening in the background. So he rarely did coverage where you would come in and do a single and a two-shot and things like that. So literally every time he said action, you were in the movie. There was no retakes. There was no take two.

Literally everything you did, that one shot you had at it was in the movie, which is very exciting. That one shot you had at it was in the movie, which is very exciting. But if the script isn't quite working or the story's not quite working, then the movie has these huge... Yeah, I don't remember it, the movie. No, you wouldn't have. It came and went very quickly.

But Jack Lemmon, it seems to me that, though I did not remember seeing Dad either, and this is not an indictment or or judgment but but it seems like people who worked with jack lemon would have a tremendous experience as an actor you know did you yes yes and it was jack lemon yeah you know like what what do you what do you what was it like watching someone like that what do you believe it was he was i guess I would have to go with the delight of performing. He was a ham bone sometimes. And he had no shame.

So he would chew up scenery and you would almost not say your next line. You were so dumbfounded that, really? Are you going to do that? was so dumbfounded that really are you gonna do that but because he had that much delight and freedom to allow himself to do that yeah you know when he brought it back a smidge or something he would he would knock your socks off oh yeah yeah it was like well he had that way of kind of like almost a bumbling through like like you just keep going ish yes yeah no he i was i'm thrilled i got to work with blake edwards i'm thrilled i got to work with jack lemon i mean part of the fun part about whatever success you've had in life is who you get to meet sure talk to hang around yeah work with

yeah and jack lemon was certainly one of those yeah i guess it is sort of interesting just because me i'm sort of i'm new to to acting in any regularity but like when i'm with alice and brie and i'm doing scenes with her there's part of me that's sort of like oh she's so good i know you're in a scene and you're like oh she's really doing it she's really doing it why am i thinking this i must not be doing it does that happen to you sure sure it's hard it's hard one of the things when you're working with a legend or someone you admire eventually it's you got to get over it pretty quickly yeah i'm not intimidated by it but i'm always sort of like there are moments where i'm

listening or it's usually you're into coverage right so yeah so you've done the scene a couple of times yeah and then like you just have that moment where you're just an audience because you're doing their coverage yeah and you're off camera right and you're like this is amazing and i don't always know when i'm on or off camera which is probably good i should probably know when i'm on but i don't always know like who's where are we you know it's behind me right that's good yeah yeah but okay so nbc like uh my my girlfriend watches the good place and and loves it and and and fortunately they were concerned that there would be spoilers and i and my producer said well i don't think mark's watched it so you get to tell me what this show is and we don't risk spoilers but even when my girlfriend is explaining to me that you know

well it's not really heaven but he's sort of a demon or like it was like what was the pitch for you to take the job and what is it great okay so this is mike sure yeah parks and parks and yeah yeah and he also did many seasons of the office right right so he uh this was the pitch um yeah do we wait for airplanes like we do when we're acting no not really no okay hold hold hold for plane or at least let's get a shot of it so they can see it okay okay we're back um and it's lunch. No. All right. So, okay. It's got to get my brain around this because it's- It seems complicated.

It's complicated. People like it though. Yeah, it's wonderful. Yeah. Okay. So, it takes place in the afterlife. I play the architect of this neighborhood because the afterlife is made up of hundreds of thousands of neighborhoods.

And I have been an apprentice for 200 years. And this is my one shot at making this village, this neighborhood perfect for the, I can't remember how many it is now, 290 people that come up to the community. Each one is filled. And you have your soulmate there it is i it's perfect everything is just the perfect right and um eleanor uh the character eleanor

shows up yeah kristen bell yeah she's great it turns out that she is actually a clerical heir so she's she's actually kind of a mediocre to bad person and through a clerical heir. So she's actually kind of a mediocre to bad person. And through a clerical heir, she comes up to my neighborhood. But because that's like a grain of sand in this perfect Swiss watch, everything starts to go nuts and go crazy. I mean, you know, trees fly. Oh, yeah, that's funny. Everything gets nuts.

And so I'm overwhelmed and over my head because I wanted to create the perfect. Yeah, it's out of your hands, out of your control. I'm middle management, so I'm trying to solve it. And everybody is starting to suffer. All of my, you know, the four main characters are all unhappy and getting challenged and neurotic and everything's going wrong and it's my fault.

Then you discover halfway through the season, she confesses she's not supposed to be there. So then I realize it's not me and so we're going to have to send her to the bad place. Yeah. It goes like that. By the end of the first season, what you discover is Eleanor, Kristen Bell, figures out that this is the bad place and that I'm actually a demon. And it's true.

Yeah. And I go to my superiors and I say, let's not do it the old-fashioned, throwing them in lava pits. I can get four people to torture themselves, torture each other psychologically, and it'll be so much funnier, and it'll be like a living hell for them. And everyone says no in the bad place.

So I'm on warning. If I fuck this up, my character's really in real trouble. Yeah. And so then the second season was kind of you got to see behind the curtain and you saw that everyone else except these four humans all 280 other people uh were part of my team they were all people i auditioned from hell to you know team to play for four people yeah to play well yeah but hell's filled yeah you got a lot of people down there

and then it becomes he gets into so much trouble in the second season that he decides to join the humans and if you can't beat him

join him but it's it's what's wonderful about this show which is why I think people enjoy it it's about ethics it's really

truly about what it means to be a good person their consequences and you know you at the end of your life there's a point tally to everything you do every action you take you know yeah whether you buy a sandwich read a book whatever whatever you're doing has a point value, positive or negative. Right. Depending on what it puts out into the world. If one of your actions causes something horrible. Is this a show or are you telling me this in real life? This is the show.

Okay. This is the show. The point value thing. Yeah. Because now I think, I thought you were just imparting spiritual wisdom on me. But it's pretty good. It's pretty good.

It really feels that there are consequences. Sure. Of course there are consequences. Sure. Of course there are consequences, either in you or outside you. Yeah, exactly. So at the end of your life, those point totals are added up, and boom, you're either in or you're out. And it's a very high level in all of that. So you're imparting that, but it's wrapped in this kind of nine-year-old's fart humor at the same time. So you're making people laugh. And it has visual magic because you're in the afterlife.

You can do anything. You can do anything. And so it's very in the back door kind of thing. You're really lecturing people about what it is to be good, but you're doing it in such a funny way that it appeals to young people too, not just adults. Sure, it seems very like a very, like those kind of things are always challenging me,

but to make it human enough for it to be engaging on that level, that's the trick of those things because the conceit of it seems very kind of ambitious. It is totally ambitious because literally everything, every episode ends with you going, oh, I get it. And then, oh, it gets flipped on its ears. So literally you're like glued to, wait, I thought I had this figured out.

And I think that's what audiences also really appreciate is never getting ahead of the material yeah never ahead of this oh yeah no that's good that seemed to yeah the whole kind of like i don't know what the hell's going to happen that that seems to be a new thing yes you know in terms of tv like that tv is made now specifically on any level yes you cannot guess what's going to happen cable did that yeah cable and being able we only do 13 episodes which is very cool because you can create that kind of dynamic with 13 22 you're screwed like the sopranos i think was one of the big ones yes like what's gonna you know yes but it was cable and the ability to spend sure uh you know money and time 10 20 hours telling one story as opposed to just churning them out yeah like what you want is like you want most of it the old days it was like most of it has

to be predictable yes and i and i'm tired i want to come home and i want to know yeah where to laugh because right right there yeah yeah yeah i mean shows, they just do basically the same thing over and over again. Yes, yeah. Now, you as a person, you a spiritual person? Yes. Yeah? Okay. I mean, but then aren't we all? I guess. But I mean, when you talk about the afterlife and we talk about the bad place, are these

in your brain, do you believe these things? I believe that there are consequences. I believe there are ripple effects. Sure. I believe that, you know, actually- Do you believe even going to a good or bad place uh after we're done that that becomes like a matter of uh i i don't even think i would go there in my i don't go there in my head right so if i had to be named if i had to

take an educated guess yeah i would guess that this is – No. No. Good for you. But I don't think the next step is anything that would resemble anything that we could even imagine from here. So we're not going to sit around on the right hand of God and – Right. Whatever it is, we might not know it.

Whatever it is, we might not know it. But I just feel like there is, whether it's your essence, your soul, your something is on a journey. And this is your chance to be physical and to be human and to figure stuff out and to learn by suffering or bumping into stuff or gravity or whatever. or bumping into stuff or gravity or whatever. That would be my kind of Buddhist Zen guess, Judeo-Christian kind of guess. Yeah. Yes. But it doesn't matter.

Yeah. You know. It doesn't. No. I think you lead your life as if it does. Yeah. It's kind of like acting. Yeah.

You know, this is imaginary shit you're doing when you act. Yeah yeah but you do it as if your life depended on it right if you're doing it well yeah right you truly do believe your imaginary you know circumstances yeah well that's kind of life to me i think you know do you do that acting do you believe your imaginary circumstances usually yeah or you let it play on you as if it did yeah i need sometimes it's like that's a big jump like yeah yeah i mean play on you but like when the cameras when they when they say cut yeah you're sort of you're not like you know how do i get back no no i agree and you know and it's your job is not to be believing your circumstances your job is to be present present and and hopefully other people will believe yes right because there's there's a story right that you're telling that's right that's right as long

as the story is compelling and you're not yeah and they're not looking at you going he's not yeah that's one of the i think the neatest parts about acting yeah you you can rehearse you can have great ideas you You can pump iron. You can learn how to shoot a bow and arrow. But if you are not literally in that moment where you don't know what's going to happen next and you are totally present as opposed to demonstrating what a good idea I had last night when I thought about this part or watch this or this is what audiences love to see. If you're not literally surrendered to I don't know what the fuck's happening next.

Right. Then it sucks. Yeah. Now, you know, we're all probably, if you're really good at it, you're probably 50, 50. Right. Right. It's just so sad though. Like, you know, he spent all that time learning how to do shoot the bow and arrow.

Let me show you how good I am. The movie wasn't good because he was good at shooting the bow and arrow. Let me show you how good I am. The movie wasn't good because he was good at shooting the bow and arrow, but that didn't mean he didn't feel like he really was the guy doing that. But that's fun. That's life. It is.

You do your best you can. I guess that's true. You make mistakes. That was fun, right? Yeah. No, it was. Say hi to Larry David for me. I will.

You know? Sometime have me back and let me talk about oceans and Oceana. We can talk about it for a minute. No, no. We're in trouble. No, no. Is that what you want to tell me? No, no, no.

Nothing. I mean, seriously. That wasn't a leading thing. I would love to come back and talk to you about what I do when I'm not doing this. What is it? We have time. I'm not rushing you out. No, no.

I have to go. I've had it. You've had it. Here's the tease. Yeah. During the Cheers years, I moved into a neighborhood. It was fighting Occidental Oil, Occidental Petroleum, whatever it was called, from drilling 60 oil wells in Santa Monica Bay.

And I became friends and a co-worker with the environmental lawyer who was heading that. We succeeded in defeating them, which was astounding, and we enjoyed the conversation that we had with each other about oceans. So kind of naively, we went, let's start an organization. We started American Oceans Campaign, and it was about offshore oil, coastal pollution.

We had lobbyists in Washington working with us and really good staff of about 12 people. Then about that lasted for 15 years. And I was always the actor who said, thank you for watching Cheers. Can I have a moment of your time to talk? You should hear what this marine biologist is telling. So I'm not an expert, but I was a spokesperson

and have kind of learned a lot by hanging around these amazing people. Then it merged into a new organization that was founded called Oceana that was truly international. We never quite got past Celebrity Boutique Environmental Organization. Oceana is now the largest in the world. Its focus is mostly on overfishing. Its focus is mostly on overfishing because if you do it right and harvest fish correctly, and we know what to do to do that, you could provide a billion fish meals a day. If you could quantify fish that way, you could provide a billion fish meals a day forever.

That would take stress off of land animals, off of water, off of cutting down forests because you don't have to cut something down to grow something, to feed something. You get protein in the most clean way you can possibly get it. So that's what we do. And we do it all over the world. And we're having great results. We're bumping into kind of a bad time here in this country. But it's so much fun for me to use that other side of my brain when I'm not acting, I'm doing this. Oh, yeah. Be proactive and do something for the world is great. It's a great conversation.

I've never, you know, you put, we're bumping into a bad time here in this country. I like how you just kind of brushed right over that and moved on to like, but we are having successes. Yeah. No, all over the world. And there is the rest of the world part of this bumpy time we're having here. Yeah. Yeah.

We're just hoping this bumpy time doesn't infect all of it. Yeah. Yeah. But, well, that's great. I'm glad it's having success. And I eat fish almost exclusively now. Me too. I don't eat the other stuff anymore.

Eat small. Eat wild, local, and small. That's the rule of thumb. I eat wild. I don't always know if it's local. I try to, you know, I got a fish guy. I go to. Yeah.

Yeah. And he probably is local. Yeah, I think so. Some of it seems to be wild, but from farther away. Yeah. Yeah, but what kind of fish do you usually eat? Sea bass. Yeah.

I mean, I'm talking on the East Coast. Right. Yeah. Oh, East Coast. Yeah, wild salmon is just unbelievable. Seasonal, though. It is. You know how you can tell in a restaurant when you, you know, it's always embarrassing

to say it's farm salmon or wild salmon. Farm salmon. Yeah. Very orange. Yes. tell in a restaurant when you you know it's always embarrassing if it's wild farm salmon or wild salmon yeah very orange yes but you also you look at uh the side view of it and if you see white fatty lines running through it yeah that's farmed huh because wild is out there muscling its way leaner yeah leaner anyway sorry this was just uh no it's great i guess i wanted you to know mark you mark to know that this is this is what i do when i'm not uh and we have to talk about it when i'm not acting no i love talking to you yeah no it's great time i i enjoy talking to you too and i and i like fish and i and i like the world and i'm like knowing you're doing that the thing about me that i i'm concerned about is that I need to be involved more than...

Because a lot of times you think, well, I say things, I talk, I'm helping. Are you helping, though? Yeah, you are. It sounds like you're helping. You are. But you're helping. I mean, you're actively engaged in it. And you enjoy it.

Yeah, no, but yeah, but this... I feel like I should do more. I want to do more. If you're talking to people... I want to do more. Then check out Oceana.org okay thanks man ted danson go watch uh get caught up with uh the good place on netflix yeah i'm going on tour well there's five dates all right a few parts of the world tour check out the dates and cities on the on the tour page

at wtfpod.com it all kicks off in london england at the royal festival hall on april 16th on through stockholm oslo amsterdam and dublin dublin my future home Dublin if New Mexico but if the country falls the wrong way and I have to run from my neighbors I'd like it to think it would be to Ireland I can play some guitar I think

these strings are dead though man they're dead dead. Boomer lives! Boomer lives! Bighead, too. I saw Bighead out there. He's still hanging around, but I know other people are feeding him, so don't freak out, all right? Thank you. how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising.

Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction.

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