WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 903 - Neil Patrick Harris / Michael Imperioli

Episode Date: April 1, 2018

Neil Patrick Harris credits his New Mexico upbringing with helping him weather the ups and downs of being a child star. It's also something he has in common with Marc. In addition to their memories of being teens in Albuquerque, Neil and Marc talk about Doogie Howser, How I Met Your Mother, Broadway, the secrets of hosting award shows, and magic. Also, Michael Imperioli returns to talk about his debut novel and why Lou Reed is a character in it. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. What the fuck, buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fucksters? What's happening? It's Mark Maron. This is my podcast.

This is my voice coming to you from the new garage. It's an empty garage. It might have a slight effect on the sound, but we're going to chip away at it. I got to get the books on the shelves. I got to get the foam up. I got to get some life into this place. But I'm here. I'm here.

I'm tucked away in a corner of my new space, and it's spectacular. It looks spectacular. It feels good. It's a little weird, though, folks. It's a little weird. I'm not going to lie to you. I've been going through somewhat of a crisis. I mean, after I got all that stuff out of the old garage, I mean, I was in there, and I know this has been going on for a while, but I was in that garage for a long time. I was in there for years. It was like, it was a part of my body. It was, we had a symbiotic relationship. We were one, me and that old garage were one. And I got to tell you when I emptied it out entirely and it was just hollow and it was just that linoleum floor

that I'd put in there with some, you know, big idea after I pulled the rug up, it was just hollow and it was just that linoleum floor that I had put in there with some you know big idea after I pulled the rug up it was just those tiles there and nothing else in it it was kind of it was rough and then I left and I and I laid in bed and I was like oh man I felt like I had lost my Siamese twin I felt it was removed, but that's not even a good analogy. I just felt like I was kind of a part of me was broken away and to detach from it was crazy. But here I am, I'm in the new space and it's roomy, it's beautiful. There's a bathroom right over there. There's some windows and I just got to get the foam up. I got to get the books out. I got to get stuff going, but it's probably ongoing.

I'm probably going to experience some grief. And I don't know how it's going to manifest itself. But I woke up in somewhat of a panic. Before I get too far into this, I wanted to give a shout out to my buddy, Joe Mattarese. He was on this show about a year ago. And now he's got his own podcast. It's called Stand Up, Lie Down. And he hosts it with his friend Dr. Keith. They're basically taking the whole stand up as therapy thing to its logical conclusion. On each episode they talk to a different comic and

use their stand-up act to get to the bottom of their issues. You can get it on Apple Podcasts or anywhere you listen to podcasts. It's weird to start here at ground at the ground level again to be sitting in a room with boxes all over the floor and just stuff around that needs to be sorted out and put in its proper place it feels like the beginning of the podcast when i was just sitting in the middle of that old garage and it was just basically a place to put ship but i'm back now i'm back in that but obviously it's a little different i've made a choice i've moved to a place that's more comfortable and interesting to me and uh and i've and i've got a new garage and this is where we're at did i mention today is neil patrick harris day

on the show uh the there these are a series of interviews still that were recorded in the old space oh man don't freak out i said to myself don't freak out i said to me it's going to be okay folks it's going to be exciting uh right now this was exciting actually michael imperioli uh you know reached out to me he He wrote a novel. And I don't always read everything that I'm supposed to read to do these interviews because I don't think it's relevant. But Imperioli and I had a beautiful chat years ago. And he wrote this novel and he wanted to talk about it. So I thought I owed it to him. And it's the right thing to do.

And out of respect for the work he did, I read the novel. It's called The Perfume Burned His Eyes. It it's out now you can get it wherever you get books and it's a it's a beautiful little coming of age story it's sort of a slightly dark coming of age story that he you know he really put his heart into and it's uh it was a it was a great read i enjoyed it i really did and it was great for michael to uh to come by and uh and talk about it i guess he's also got a new abc show alex inc but imperioli's a solid cat and this was really and i'm being honest here you'll hear me hear me because i'm telling i'm i'm being honest this was a good read and it was a heartfelt book and it's a sweet book and it takes place

at a time in New York that I kind of remember, but it's a little gritty, but it's still a coming of age story about a 17 year old kid and Lou Reed is in it. Lou Reed is a character in this coming of age story, which is spectacular. So this is me and Michael Imperioli talking about his new book, The Perfume Burned His Eye. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know, we've produced a special bonus podcast episode With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

Ontario Cannabis Store, and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series, streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+.

18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. So this morning I finished your, and I loved it. And I ended up this morning, it was not anticipated, but I ended up listening to Blue Mask and Street Hassle. Nice. Nice. Is it a great way to start the day? I don't know.

But there's great records. Great records. day i don't know but there's great records and great records and uh and so this book um i love that it was that you wrote it from the point of view of a high school kid you know i think that the tone of it was great and it's very engaged i found it very uh moving and exciting and it brought me back to uh i didn't grow up in the city but i used to go to new york because my family in jersey and stuff in the 70s. And it really made me feel what it was like then again. Right.

Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was very, it had its very specific flavor and character. It did, didn't it? And I think you really got that pretty good. Yeah. Were you going into the city then? I mean.

I was, you know, I was in 76. I was 10. So we'd go to the city for like to see the, you know, Statue of Liberty. From where? Where were you? I grew up like Mount Vernon. Yeah. Right on the city border of the Bronx.

Yeah. It's very close to the city, but yet, you know, we'd go to the baseball game, the circus. Yeah. The Sir Barnum and Bailey at Madison Square Garden. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Once in a while a play.

Right. My parents, we went to see a couple of plays. But I didn't know the city at all. No? No, it was very abstract. I was a little kid. It's kind of weird to me, though. But, well, I mean, a little kid and what.

So this kid, this takes most of the narrative of the book. It's you writing. See, this is the thing. I had to picture you the whole way through. It's not me, though. I know that. Definitely okay but but but i that's just what i do with people right i understand that of course you're playing the kid i'm playing the kid in the movie exactly you're playing the kid in the book in the book which is a movie in your head when you're writing kind of but uh but so that most of the action or most of the narrative takes place as a recollection in 1977.

Right. So he's looking back at what year? Well, most of the book is written from the point of view of a boy about to be 18 in a mental hospital. Yeah. Looking at what happened the last two years. Oh, two years. It's like a journal. Right.

And then the epilogue takes place- Years later, 2013. In 2013, which is 35 years later, I guess. Well, the thing is- Three days after Lou Reed's death. Right, right. And that is sort of a memoriam to Lou Reed. Right.

But when you were writing this, I don't know when you wrote it, did you anticipate that happening? Did you write this after he died? Well, when I started the book, I wanted to write a coming-of-age story. It's something that's always been very close to my heart from when I was a kid. Which ones do you like? Catcher in the Rye? Of course.

I mean, how could you not like that? That's such a seminal piece of work. But also Candide, which which i read which is not necessarily coming age but in some ways it is but i read that as a teenager it made a huge impression on me yeah and i hadn't looked at candide again maybe since i was a teenager and i just picked it up a couple of months ago and i realized how much that book it may influence the writing of this but just influenced me i think in general as an artist. As a way to relate to the 16-year-old mind.

Because my son was turning 16 and he was going through what kids go through at that age. And I just wanted to relate to that state of mind. So I started writing... Before Lou died or after? Before Lou died. Oh, okay. Started writing the character. Before Lou Dunn. Oh, okay.

Started writing the character. And there was an early version of this character in a script that I wrote of a pilot that I sold to HBO that didn't get made. Oh, okay. Very different, but the character was hardcore. Yeah. Yeah. And then... What was it about this character? If this guy's not you...

Because to me, all the buttons were pushed for me reading the book because, you know, I don't know. How old are you? 52 this month. I'm 54, right? So just a couple years older than you, but it was all very familiar to me. But I was a little older when I was down in Alphabet City, you know? So was I.

I didn't get to the city until 1983 when I was 17. Oh, okay. So it's not that far away. No, but also, so you were at the age of this kid, really? I was a little older. None of the events that happened to this kid ever happened to me. I mean, except from being a teenager in this big city. Right.

You moved there when you were 17? I started going to acting school. I was kind of in and out. I'd go back home. I'd stay there and then i finally moved permanently i guess like 85 so this kid he uh you know he he stifles himself a lot because he's overwhelmed all the time you know and he's about to get sick half the time when he has feelings and he's you know he's afraid of the world's a big place to him and i think

going from queens to new york city that that you really sort of like you brought that because I don't think people realize that. Like even in Westchester, you know, the city's there. Right. But it's just big menacing place. No one, you know, especially then. It was a little more of a, you know, today's world is a lot smaller in general because everybody's a lot more aware of what's going on all the time because of you know the way we communicate and stuff but uh especially then yeah you know his journey from jackson heights to manhattan was only a couple maybe two miles or three miles but it's yeah light years apart in terms of yeah it's like people on the island

who never go to the city they never go maybe for a concert but barely then hardly that or when relatives come to town right you take them to the Empire State Building. Yeah, because you live in New York. Right. Yeah. I underlined one sentence in the book for some reason because I liked it. Oh, when you were in the magic store. The occult.

The occult store. It's a real store, right? There was a real store down there. I was trying to remember. There was a couple. Yeah. Yeah. There was one in the Flatiron District that I think lasted longer. But the one there, there was one in the East Village.

Right, yeah, yeah. I can't even remember the name. Which were always very, if you had ever gone to those places, they were very strange. Sure, sure. You got all the amulets. You describe it very well, but the sentence I underlined was, air that had grown thick from years of desperate aspirations, some fulfilled,

some fruitless, most of them malicious. Right. That's, you could feel that in those places. Yeah. Well, I think the real hook of this book,

you know, for me, and I think, you know, for you too, because we had talked about the last time you were here, we talked about our, our love of blue read, is that the device in this book

that is really sort of amazing is that this kid coincidentally moves into the building that Lou Reed lives in. Your character, Matthew, moves in with his mother who leaves a life in Jackson Heights because of an inheritance and things had not gone right. Your father's dead, your grandfather's dead.

But she takes up this place in the city in Midtown and Lou Reed lives in your building. Right. Not yours, the character. Sorry, I always do that with writers. He lives, yeah. Well, in the 76, he did live in the east side of Manhattan in kind of a very, a neighborhood you wouldn't really think

of him living in because he was always a downtown guy for most of it. In 76. So that was because I was trying because this is like really Lou like hitting bottom. I think I don't know. He might have had a couple of bottoms, but he went, you know, the album Street Hassle, I think, came from a very painful place. There was a breakup. And I mean, Street Hassle, which I think is, the song especially,

Street Hassle is just such a brilliant piece of work. But Lou is there to serve as a certain, because this kid loses the two major male role models in his life at this very critical point in his adolescence. When he's, what, 17? 16. And Lou emerges as this kind of quasi-father figure, despite his own madness and not intentionally becoming a father figure.

And not really showing up as a father figure at all. No. Other than remembering your name finally. And that's on the kind of literal level, but on another level, to me the book is about the formation of an artist. Well, I thought the interesting thing was, knowing what you know about Lou, and I figured you did some research on it, is that the kid didn't know who he was.

He didn't know who he was. And that even all the way through the relationship, he knew he had had a thing he had a hit or he had a song he recognized but but that the the attraction and the desire to be close to lou was more based on just the uniqueness of his life and and the intensity of his personality exactly exactly and and i and i thought that was an interesting choice so you don't have any celebrity element in there you know it was just this weird dude with the weird haircut right who didn't look like anybody else and it looked like he didn't belong in that neighborhood in that area but there was something that you know this kid something in his aura and his energy struck a struck a nerve with this kid yeah and what what i in my mind was saying that it's about

a certain artistic vision and a certain artistic consciousness that this kid is drawn to. And later in the book, in one of Lou's desperate moments, he takes this kid down to the village, to this theater, to see this play. And later on, we see that this kid is, when he's in the hospital, he writes a play. He starts to write a play.

So it's the seeds of saying, well, this is how Lou is bestowing and influencing the artistic circle of life. Well, I think that also what was exciting for me is that, and I struggle with this all the time, it takes it, that Lou Reed as a presence and a phenomenon, everybody knows, but to really love Lou Reed all the way through everything he did is a rare person. You know what I mean? That whatever your sensitivity is

I have it as well. And he's as troubling as he is compelling to me. Even during the course of his career? Sure. Just even the music. Some of it's a little too vulnerable for me and some of it's a little too stupid for me and some of it's you know, just even the music. Some of it's a little too vulnerable for me, and some of it's a little too stupid for me, and some of it's, you know, like, some of it's affected.

But, like, you know, there's always one or two that keeps pushing me through. But, I mean, you really have to take Lou's work from the whole scope, I think. Yeah. You know, and he was always challenging himself as an artist from beginning to end. Right. I mean, Lou Lou, what he did with Metallica. Yeah, I got to give that another listen. I didn't see, I didn't.

And Ecstasy, which was an album that came out around 2000 or 1999, 2000, is a very underrated, excellent album. The song Rock Minuets on that record. But I mean, he's making this in his now early 60s. Yeah. So it's not a lot of artists that can maintain that. You know, Neil Young is one who just sort of maintains that level of still trying to discover, still trying to push themselves.

And, you know, there's successes and failures along the way, and there's better and worse along the way. But there was always that underlying. Well, I like the thing he did with John Cale. Was that in the 80s or 90s? Songs for Drella. Yeah, no, and Magic and Loss he brought up in the book. It's amazing.

New York is tremendous. New York's great. Tremendous, yeah. That's where the title comes from, from the song Romeo Had Juliet. Oh. It says, The perfume burned his eyes,

holding tightly to her thighs. Something flickered for a minute, then it vanished and was gone. Yeah. It's always stuck in my head forever, and I always wanted to figure out a way to use that somehow yeah this originally was called anywhere you like yeah which was which is a line when he gets the job he first goes in the diner and the waiter the waiter looks like he's going to be mean and then he says anywhere you like and to him the kid that phrase was like he just got to the city and it's like okay people seem like they're kind

of gruff right yeah yeah actually it's just because that's the way people are in the city but then as i kept writing it didn't really encompass what i wanted for the you know one because you don't know where the story's going to go when you're writing it you know i didn't know no no i didn't really have a i had kind of a little germ or seed. I didn't know what the story was going to be. Did you know he was going to meet Lou Reed? Not at the very beginning, no. What happened was, this is going back to where we started, started this coming of age story.

And while I was into that, Lou died. Yeah. And it hit me very surprisingly hard in a couple of different ways. Yeah. And both because I knew him and I really liked him a lot. You developed a relationship with him later in his life? Yeah. It's around night 2000.

Yeah. And he was just very generous to me and really kind and warm. Did you spend time with him? Yeah, we did. I met him at a show. Yeah. One of his shows backstage. And he came when I screened of his shows Backstage And He came

When I screened A movie that I directed He came I invited him And he came We hosted a couple Of benefits together For Jazz Foundation

And for the Tibet Fund Uh huh I visited him In the rehearsal studio When he was revisiting Metal Machine In around 2010

Revisiting it? He did He went on tour Yeah And playing kind of like reworked versions of Metal Machine music live. This is 2010 or 11. See, this is another thing I remember about a couple of years before he died. Yeah, he's doing that album, which is like just an obliteration

of music. Yeah, but he was kind of reworking it to make it, I think, I didn't see that show live, but yeah, he was revisiting Metal Machine. And did you spend time with the both of them, with Laurie? I've met Laurie a few times. We've been in touch. Yeah. Did she read it?

She did read it, yeah. She liked it a lot, I think. She didn't know Lou in 76, and that's a whole side of Lou that, you know, I didn't know him either, and she didn't know, but I think she was able to enjoy it as a story. The speculation, she enjoyed your fictional speculation of what that must have been like. I think so, yeah.

And did you read stuff about Lou at that time? Oh, yeah, I have for years, but there's a lot of specific references that, you know references that you draw through. Like, for instance, you have him quoting, he quotes a little line from Paul Simon's song. Yeah, you can call me out. 50 Ways.

50 Ways, that's right, yeah. So why did I choose that? Well, Lou was in the movie One Trick Pony, which was Paul Simon's new play. I remember that, yeah. So why did I choose that? Well, Lou was in the movie One Trick Pony, which was Paul Simon's new play. I remember that, yeah. Right. So trying to, you know, if you use a reference. So you know he knew that record.

He knew Paul Simon. He knew the record. And I was like, okay, so choose that. We're the New York boys. Right. So trying to take little details and weave them into the narrative. Well, the thing that always it was amazing about lou to me is from when when i read please kill me you know you know and they start

with they have you know bits and pieces of lou uh in that book the oral history of well they put him on the cover of the first punk magazine the legs and i just saw them the other night yeah they were in town they're doing another book uh legs Legs and Jillian. But there was something about his... Whatever they were doing at the factory, Lou saw no difference. In some respects, in his mind, he didn't see any

difference in terms of skill set or anything else from what he was doing to what Jimi Hendrix was doing. Or anybody else. He thought he was just as good a guitar player as anybody else, right? Very underrated guitar player, I think. I think he's an underrated guitar player, but also it struck me that in terms of rock and roll, it's not about how well you do anything.

It's about how you get your ideas across. Can you write a good song? Yeah. Does it sound good? I mean, virtuosity has its place, of course, especially in other forms of music, but it has its place in rock. But is it a good song?

Can you write a good song? Well, there's also that great moment in the book where you talk about, you weren't even tripping, you weren't even on drugs, but that day where you were with her, with Veronica, and you all of a sudden... You mean the character in the book? Yeah, yeah, the character in the book, Matt,

where, I do that all the time, where that character starts to realize how his brain works. Right. Like he's all wide open and he's taking in the day and like you can feel him forming his brain. It's, yeah, I mean, it's endorphins coming from being in love. Yeah, right. And that all-encompassing feeling of when you fall for someone. And it's, you know, I think it does alter your brain chemistry. I mean, there's things, there's hormones that start to really go into your bloodstream. And it allows for a different, I mean, that happened when I met my wife.

It was like three days where I was, it was like I was on a drug. Oh, yeah. I mean, literally, my brain was going in ways I'd never, never experienced ever. And it was going on and on and on and on. Oh, yeah? Yeah? And did that, three days that lasted? Well, I mean, that's the, I don't think you can stay like that.

You think you'll die because I didn't sleep. Yeah, all right. Yeah, I was awake. Right, sure, sure. I mean, that's a sign that there's something special happening here. Yeah. And I like how you brought in, in the end, in the institution that, you know, Ginsburg was supposedly there.

Like, you know, like the sort of the legacy of institutionalized geniuses. Right. And they're allowed to reveal the fact that if they had died, then they could say, yes, they were here. But if they're alive, it's kind of private. Who were the other two? Lenny Bruce and Judy Garland. And Judy Garland. Well, look, man, you know, it's good to see you.

And the book is great. And, you know, and also, like, I want to make sure people know that, like, this isn't a book about Lou Reed. Lou Reed is, you know, fairly, he's an important character in it. But, you know, when you look at the breadth of the book, it's not like you're doing a book about Lou Reed is fairly, he's an important character in it. But when you look at the breadth of the book, it's not like you're doing a book about Lou Reed. No, it's a coming of age story. Oh, no, absolutely. He's just a guy in the building.

But more importantly, even the relationship with Veronica and then the relationship with the kid in his own mind. That's probably the most important relationship is him to his own mind you know right but it's probably the most important uh relationship is him to his own mind and trying to figure out what it means to be uh yeah a human being and and be you know an adult and i thought it ended well it's hard to end a book it's hard to end a book you're right and it has to it has to be organic and it has to kind of make sense but you did a great job it It was your first novel, right? First novel, yeah. Good, man.

I think it's a great coming of age story and I think it's a great homage to Lou as well. That's what I tried to do. Both of those things. Good. Well, thanks for coming by, man. Thank you for having me. Always a pleasure.

I love that guy. And I love the book. I honestly do. It's called The Perfume Burned His Eyes. It's out now. Get it wherever you get books. And that was nice to talk to Michael. Oh, my God.

It's so bizarre being here. It will get less bizarre. I promise. It will get less bizarre. So, Neil Patrick Harris wanted to do the show. He's a fan of the show. And we tried to get him a while back, and we couldn't, and it was a lovely chat. He's on the new show Genius Junior Sunday nights on NBC. He's also on the Netflix show A Series of Unfortunate Events.

All episodes of season two are now available. And this is me talking to Neil Patrick Harris. and this is me talking to Neil Patrick Harris you know what you're doing I pointed the microphone at my mouth you did I can't tell you how few people understand that mic

when I tell them you can just move it in they're just like baffled that the mic is on this thing for a reason you have freedom. I find that strange with actor people in general. Yeah, especially if they do voiceovers. They should know. Right.

But I guess when you go into those booths. ADR, they don't do looping. I know, but you know what? It's already set up for you and there's three guys in there, right? So the mic's stationary and they tell you where to stand. This is a radio thing. I wonder that with the award shows. What about it? with the actors they come into then their job is to walk up to the thing and read the giant

teleprompter yeah and then they still look so baffled baffled by the process it's a it's a unique skill not everybody can do teleprompter it's just i don't know why why i mean i don't know why you've gotten familiar with the text, assuming. Maybe not. Maybe not. Yeah, maybe you're just.

Maybe you're like, well, I'm sure you read it. Yeah. But I don't know. Some people just, they look like they're reading. Other people look like they're just talking.

I think that they're just, I think that they're freaked out by the big room with all the people staring at them. I don't know how you guys do it. I feel like actors

are much more comfortable in closed office. do it. I feel like actors are much more comfortable in closed office. Film actors. TV actors. Yeah, more film actors, I guess, right? Yeah, they don't do the big rooms. Yeah, they're protected. They're insulated. They can just be in their own little world and then surrounded by just a

small group of people. And fail, but no one knows. And cameras. Yeah, no one knows. That's true. With an award show, you get one shot at it, and if you failed, then everyone sees that. Is that why you're out here? Because you thought you were hosting? Am I not hosting this show? Oh, I'm sorry. The Oscars.

I thought that's why I was in the orange chair. No. Not this show. The Oscars. No, I wasn't. I was in town. We watched the Oscars in New York. Oh, really?

What a beast that show is. It's a beast. But you somehow have, it's one of those things where, well, maybe we should start earlier. You're one of the great song and dance men out of New Mexico. Out of New Mexico, yes.

And I've never taken a dance lesson ever. I've never studied dance, but apparently I'm a song and dance man. Don't you think you are somewhat? No, I'm very insecure when it comes to dancing and I have to do a fair amount of it live. Right. And big one-offs.

Yeah. Which is probably the worst way to do it because you don't have the opportunity to do it again, to screw up the thing and you're surrounded by professional dancers who are fantastic. Not really because you're the one in the front. Right, but you're surrounded by professional dancers who are fantastic not really because you're the one in the front right but you're the one that just knows a few moves and they're like spinning around that's what happens yeah of course they learn my skill set

and they make you look good i just sway left and right with my hands out like classic song and dance that's the move yeah so new mexico like I don't meet many people that grew up there, and I wasn't even born there, and you were born there. Yeah. In Albuquerque. What do you know of New Mexico? What do you mean? I was there from third grade till I graduated high school.

My dad's still there. Seriously? Yeah. I didn't know there was a New Mexico connection. Oh, hell yeah, man. I grew up, I went to Highland High. No way. Graduated from Highland High.

Nice. My father graduated from Highland High, I think. Is that true? I think so. I think it's a great place to have been raised. I was born Highland High. Nice. My father graduated from Highland High, I think. Is that true? I think so. I think it's a great place to have been raised. I was born in Albuquerque. Yeah. My mother was from Portales, New Mexico.

My dad was from Albuquerque. From Portales. Yep. And they met in college. At U. Quintessential UNM College, Sweethearts. Fraternity, sorority, the whole nine. Oh, yeah.

He gave her his ring. Oh, really? P, sorority, the whole nine. Oh, yeah. He gave her his ring. Oh, really? Pledged. Yeah, something like that. Yeah. That was old-timey. It was very old-timey, and they are still together to this day.

Really? Still in love, still happily, adorably old. And you grew up in, are they in New Mexico? In New Mexico, still. They're in Albuquerque. We moved to, well, they moved to Roswell. So we lived in Roswell for a couple of years. Were you in the sort of space alien business? I was filled with all kinds of fluids and I don't remember much of it.

They're experimenting with it. Lots of nightmares. No, I barely remember that. And then we moved to Ruidoso, New Mexico. Ruidoso? Yep. Have you been there? Ski resort town in the winter. And there's a track. Horse racing in the summer. Ruidos Ruidoso. Ruidoso. Yep. Have you been there? Ski resort town in the winter.

And there's a track. Horse racing in the summer. Ruidoso Downs. Ruidoso Downs. All American Futurity. Quarter horse racing. Yeah. My dad wanted me to buy some property. He had a friend down there.

My dad's got a lot of big ideas. Nice. And he knows a guy who's got some land down there. He wanted me to open a playhouse. Oh. He thought like- That would have been awesome. Like I miss. Like I could do the radio show from the playhouse. Oh. He thought like- That would have been awesome. Like I miss.

Like I could do the radio show from the playhouse and then- Do Summerstock. Yeah, do Summerstock and Ria Doso. That'll get you places. I don't even know what's in Ria Doso. I mean, I grew up my entire life in New Mexico. I don't even know if I've driven through it. You probably haven't.

It's west? It's southwest of Albuquerque. Three hours of Albuquerque. Well, you know, like Truth or Consequences has become sort of a thing. Yeah. Like people were buying houses there, I heard. Recently? Yeah.

I used to go to Truth or Consequences when my father's father, when he was still alive, he would fly. He had a private little plane, little tiny plane. Oh, he owned a plane? Yep. And not fancy-like, but small. No, but just one of those planes. And we would fly when I was a little kid to Truth or Consequences. Like a mid-sized car plane. Yeah. And we'd go fishing. He would plane? Yep. And not fancy like, but- No, but just one of those planes. And we would fly when I was a little kid to-

Like a mid-sized car plane. Yeah. And we'd go fishing. He would fly? Yeah. And you'd just get in the plane? And my grandma was in the passenger seat, which she was co-piloting. And you were in back?

Yeah. In a plane? Yeah. And we went and they had a motor home that was, and he taught me how to shoot a gun. Sure. And fish. You got to learn that. Yeah.

I went to camp up in Pecos. We shot guns. We loaded. Sure. And fish. You got to learn that. Yeah, I went to camp up in Pecos. We shot guns. We loaded shotgun shells. I'm incredibly appreciative of my New Mexico upbringing. So you know how to shoot? You know how to fish? Does that come in handy? Yeah.

In Harlem, where I live now? Does it ever. Do you ever go fishing, Neil? No. You know what? I do have a desire though to uh to camp and fish and and all that sort of boy scout stuff i love that i love that stuff why don't you i ponder that because i'm filming a a netflix show right now in vancouver which one it's called a

series of unfortunate events based on the lemony books yeah that guy i know that guy the guy who wrote the books i met him once dan. Yeah, he's an interesting guy. Very interesting guy. Hilarious. Hit the jackpot with those fucking books, huh? Yeah, there were 13 of them. Yeah. And we're making them into a series.

Dark children's tales. Indeed. Barry Sonnenfeld's the executive producer. The Baudelaire family. The Baudelaires. Klaus, Violet, and Sonnenfeld. You know it's like knocking it. Like, you know, just the idea of naming a children's character the Baudelaires and all

that baggage that that name brings is kind of beautiful. It's amazing. And I play Count Olaf, the evil villain. So you're like in all of them. Oh, yeah. And I have three hours of prosthetic makeup every morning. Oh, yeah? Yeah, it's a big fun deal.

But while I'm there. Yeah. Fishing. That sounded like a plug. It sounded like I was fishing for a plug. No. But there's so much hiking and camping in Whistler and BC is extraordinary, and I keep wanting to go camping.

Yeah. But it hasn't happened yet. This is year three that I've been there. Well, I think at your level, you could probably just call somebody to set up everything you need. But that's what you don't want to do, right? I don't know. Are you going to buy a tent?

Because I grew up in tiny town New Mexico where there were, you could just, the great thing about living there is that it was one school and one town and you- In Rio Doso. Yeah, and you knew how to, I lived there my whole childhood up until I was 13. And your grandparents had a mobile home, but mobile home's different. That was in Truth or Consequences. Oh. We had a nice house that my father actually built.

With his own two hands? Yeah. Wow. Was he a house builder? No, he's an attorney. Yeah. Wow. Was he a house builder?

No, he's an attorney. But we knew how to then get from my house to a friend's house by going through the woods. Yeah. And you knew Hunger Games style that this tree, you turn this way and you could run full sprint and all of that. So we would camp and fish and do all of those things. Intense? Intense. Yeah, totally.

I thought you meant was it intense. It was very intense. Intense. Intense, intense, for totally I thought you meant Was it intense? It was very intense Intense Intense, intense Yeah, but tense are great And now that I have kids And they're seven First grade

It seems like the appropriate time To be taking them out Oh yeah, man And doing that Get them out there Scare them with the camping Because I don't like the camping In California

I've been camping Where you just Go to a camp site KOA And there's just 15 different- Campgrounds of America. Spots where people have built fires and it's already a fire ring. And there's a public restroom with showers.

Yeah. That kind of place you're talking about? That feels like you're- It's not quite camping, but it's not horrible. It feels like you're tailgating. Well, the thing is with kids, you know, like at a certain age, like if it's a nice campground and they do have facilities, it's, you know, it's a load off. You off you know you want to but that's the whole point you want to go you want

to hike out to a place where you're theoretically alone okay and so if you're going to poop somewhere you have to find the poop place yeah declare it yeah the whole do the whole thing right if you go to the can and it's this weird i don't know like i think i'm out you know and once digging for the looking for the poop hole. I'm okay with it. But I think as a family, if the four of you go and you got two kids, it's going to be quite an ordeal, the pooping. That's what I'm thinking. It's fine.

But, you know. Bring those little wet nap things. Yeah. And then what are you going to do with those? Oh, that's a good question. You need a poop hole for the things. Well, no, you're going to need a bag. You're going to need a bag. You're going to need a bag.

See, now you're carrying. Is it getting worse? Yeah, there's extra baggage there. I don't know. I think there's probably a good way. There's a middle ground. A campground. I remember, yes.

I bought a tent and it was with my second wife and we were going to go camping. I think we did it once. And we ended up at a campground. It wasn't great, but it wasn't horrible. It wasn't comfortable. Were't comfortable were there other people in other campsites right around you

because I feel like that would be that is what I wouldn't like well yeah that'd be bad because then people would recognize you and then you'd have to deal with that shit

no I don't think about that I just think I'd look at their tent and our tent and think is our tent should I put it better

yeah you gotta put the tent up either way. Yeah. And with four people, you got to get a pretty big tent. Yeah, scrambled eggs. Yeah, sure. Enough, or should I have brought the fucking bacon like those guys did?

Right. I'd rather just be by myself. The cooler? Being cool. That's right, the food, man. Just cool enough. Then you got to buy the camping cooking stuff. It's a lot of stuff, but it's worth it,

and I want to do it, and I'm vowing to you here and now. We're there until May. So I'm going to have to do it at the end. No, I'm there. They're going to come for a spell. Okay. So why are you down here? Do we cover that?

Why am I down here in LA? Yeah. I'm promoting multiple things. Dude, I have a bunch of random things that are happening. I'm promoting right now an NBC quiz show called Genius Junior that I'm doing. So this is kids? Producing and hosting. The classic take on the old smart kids show. And on sort of the college smart bowl. No, it's kids. It's eight to 14. But that's kind of the idea. Two teams of three kids. Yeah. And I'm the host and I do series of questions. Kids,

like the really smart kids. Correct. So the kids that, you know, they're impressive, but you kind of feel bad for them. That was my worry, right? They did a national search to get all these kids and they wound up with actual people kids. Yeah. That actually are nice and have other hobbies. There's a round where it's a spelling round and they have to spell as many words words they can in 90 seconds or 60 seconds and they have to spell them backwards okay so i'll say i'll say spell omnidirectional backwards and as fast as you could spell it forwards they spell it backwards seriously and it's un it is unbelievably exciting to watch and jaw dropping

and the kids are having a good time super Super having a good time. They were super supportive of each other. That was my only concern as a human, is that we bring these kids to a soundstage and lights and an audience, and then their takeaway at the end is that it was not fun or bad. I wanted to make sure that this unique weirdness was something that they enjoyed. The only thing that comes to mind for me right now with that show or the idea of that show is that show in the movie Magnolia. You remember the washed up TV actor father

who brings his kid, he's a genius, and they don't let him pee. Yeah. No, we let them pee. We gave them pee breaks. I think that was a long way around me asking you. Could the kids pee? Do you torture the kids? No, I let them pee. We gave them pee breaks. I think that was a long way around me asking you. Could the kids pee? Do you torture the kids?

No, I was so aware, dude. I was a little kid actor. I mean, I wasn't that little when I started. How did you survive that? How did you survive that? Well, I have really nice parents and I grew up in New Mexico. So I didn't come from a line of parents

who were in the business or who needed me to accomplish certain things. This was this random circumstance that allowed me to start working. Yeah, but let's talk about that. So you're in Rio Doso? Yeah. Did you go, you went all the way through high school

in Rio Doso? I went through, I think in the beginning of my freshman year of high school, we moved back to Albuquerque. What part of town? My brother had graduated, and then we moved to Albuquerque. two of you yep uh older brother what part of town in albuquerque yeah uh the northeast heights now how do you become doogie hauser so i'm in

at that point i'm still in uh elementary school oh really when you move back thing no i'm still in ruidoso yeah and there's a summer from eighth, I just graduated the eighth grade. Yeah. And there was a high school program in New Mexico State in Las Cruces. Sure. For theater students, a theater camp. Now, were you doing theater? You weren't doing theater.

I was a sort of precocious little kid in Ruidoso. So I was in the Episcopal Church adult choir at 10. Uh-huh. And I was the leader of the choir in the middle school. I'd teach harmony parts. I was a bit of, you know. That guy. That kid.

I liked to perform. It was good you had good parents. At rallies and stuff. It was good you had good parents, and you had people who got your back. So the choir director and the band director thought that I should go to a performing arts high school, which we thought was a shitty idea. Who, you and your family? Yeah.

What, to go to New York? You'd have to go to New York. I don't know. California, New York. You're just entirely uprooted. It felt like military school, just sending your child away for a whole other thing. Yeah, with not as much discipline as military school, I think. You think?

I think. You think? I think. Probably so. And so we ended up, I ended up going to this, I was one of the youngest kids in this drama camp in San Francisco State. So I got to stay in the dorms.

It was helmed by Mark Medoff, prolific playwright. Right. Wrote Children of a Lesser God. Oh, right. Which is being revived on Broadway this coming season and he had written this movie called clara's heart a whoopi goldberg movie that they were doing for

warner brothers and the opposite uh lead was a kid a waspy kid yeah in baltimore yeah and he was uh the parents were getting divorced and she was their jamaican maid and she sort of it was based on a book so she helped him through his uh the ups and downs of that and I happened to be at this camp and I happened to be in Mark's cold reading audition class yeah and I happened to leave an impression upon him and he thought and he didn't say anything to me he told my parents at the end of the camp hey would your son be interested in auditioning for this film? Yeah. They thought he was joking because it turns out Star Search had come through Alamogordo and had convinced us all that if we would go and give, well, I don't know, $350. Alamogordo.

They scouted in Alamogordo. We would go to Alamogordo and do Star Search regionals. And if we won that, we'd go do Star Search State. And if we got that, we'd go on the show. So we went and did that. Is that how that worked? Star Search? Apparently not, because it was a complete sham.

It was not Star Search at all. It was some jackass dude that just took everyone's money and left. So we did the show in some weird place in Alamogordo and then left. Introduction to show business. It was. Yeah. And so then this guy mark medoff comes to my parents at the end of this camp it says hey i got this movie we're not

falling for that i want your kid that's what they said they said no we're not interested yeah send us a script buddy and so sure enough they sent a script to fedex the script from warner brothers that's so funny to uh ruidoso your folks are already cynical and then it was real so then they had to sit me down and explain that that had all happened. And it was all very real. I ended up getting that movie. I was 12, turning 13. Filmed that movie.

And then- Flew out to LA. Flew to Baltimore, Maryland. Baltimore. St. Michael's, Maryland. Was there a big part? Pretty big part? That was the lead.

Oh, wow. It was the co-lead opposite Whoopi. So it was a big- Was she nice to you? Education. She's awesome. Oh, good. Has she ever been on the show? No, I'd like to get a hold of her. That was the lead Oh wow It was the co-lead opposite Whoopi So it was a big Was she nice to you? Education She's awesome Oh good Has she ever been on the show?

No I'd like to get hold of her I have to go to New York I think she's hanging out in New York Yeah she doesn't like to fly Oh really? Yeah Are you guys still friends?

She takes buses Yeah she's sort of she's very mentor-y When I first met her I got to fly to Malibu to actually meet with her Uh huh Another surreal experience

She lived out there then? Yeah so in the middle of nowhere New Mexico going to Malibu on the meet with her another surreal experience she lived out there then yeah so in the middle of nowhere new mexico going to malibu on the coast pulling up to a house walking into this house which is great yeah and then down the stairs was fucking whoopi goldberg just getting long dreads put in oh really outdoors yeah like no it was inside okay and uh and and i got to talk to you share the fat with her for a little bit. And she was super nice. What I'm very appreciative of is that she talked to me like a person, like a coworker person as opposed to a child. And my parents did the same, and I do the same to our kids.

I think it's important to have kids be treated as if they're people. Can you give me the option? What does it sound like when you're not treating them like people? Maybe more, well, it's probably how you're thinking, but more how you're speaking. So instead of saying, well, I would prefer if you said, Hi, Tom, you're 11 years old. Welcome to the set. Here's where you're going to stand.

It's going to be a lot of pressure, but I believe that you're up for it, and it's going to be good. As opposed to, Hi, so you're Tommy. I'm Neil. I'm going to be the host so here's what's going to happen. There's going to be a lot of people and it might make you nervous

but don't be nervous, okay? Can I see a smile right now? That's what I want is a smile. I'm going to, like that shit I just find. Well, that's, yeah, it's horrible because they see you walk away

and talk differently to everyone else. Right. You step away to one adult like, hey, this kid... Just be normal. Yeah. So I was very careful of the kids in the Genius Junior to make sure that their takeaway was positive. So you had that experience throughout your career.

People treated you... Mostly people treated you like a grown-up or with a certain amount of... They didn't treat you like a little child? Yeah, like you were a commodity that had something to to help with as opposed to an annoying kid that they just had to deal with but you were an annoying kid well you weren't i don't hope i wasn't no you seem very well grounded it sounds like your parents were like well were supportive and nice and decent people i've always loved the process of how things work. Yeah. I haven't been, I've never been super blinded

by what comes from something. I'm more interested in how things work. What does that mean? What do you mean? Meaning even coming here. Yeah. I'm fascinated by the fact that it's literally just you here in your garage by yourself.

Did you think there were more? I thought there'd be a couple more people that were managing the sounds. And I thought that there would be, I don't know, a videographer guy that was filming it. I don't know what it was. No, interesting. So I like seeing while you're clicking on things on your computer. Yeah, just watching the levels.

I would wonder what program you're using. I'm using GarageBand, old school. I wanted to get into the GarageBand. I don't do anything with it other than record voices. I go through an analog mixer for some reason. I do a backup on a Zoom. And then I watch the levels and I can manage those with the little knobbies here. And then occasionally I just, you know, I poke at your...

Hey, easy. I'm sorry. And eventually I'll click, or occasionally I'll click on your filmography. Oh, nice. For a little research. Yeah, we'll just see where we're at. How about GarageBand? Do you go and put some cool beats underneath it?

Yeah, of course. It's going to be total hip-hop. That's my producer. I let him do whatever he wants. If he wants to do the Neil Patrick Harris dance mix, it's going to happen. Nice. I'm into that. Let me know when you feel like that's where it's needed.

Thumping bass. Okay, so you do these movies, and do you move out here? It happened. Nice. I'm into that. Let me know when you feel like that's where it's needed. Thumping, babes. So, okay. So you do these movies and do you move out here? So I did Clara's Heart. Then I went back to my life. And then I- In New Mexico. Yep.

And I was a child working at a Schlotzky's sandwich shop. Where? In Albuquerque? In Ruidoso. Oh, in Ruidoso. The only one. The only one, I believe. It's still there.

I was far too young. I don't know how they paid me. Schlotzky's was exciting when it first came on. Yeah, they're great. It was a big round bread, the muffalita sandwich, basically. Yeah, but I remember when it happened when I was probably early on in high school, and it was exciting to have a new fast food place. They're still delicious.

Wendy's. I remember when Wendy's happened, too. It was before your time. I was super excited when a McDonald's opened up in Ruidoso. That was a big deal. Really? You remember it? We were a Dairy Queen town.

Dairy Queen. We'd go get the ice cream cones. Brazier. What was the name of the burger? Brazier? Brazen Burger? Brazier. Was it? Brazier? Brazier, right? Something like that. What does that mean? I don't know, man. Is that a guy's name? No, I think it's like... I don't know. Brazing? A thing you do with meat?

I don't know, but I remember it was sort of... I think that was the name of the burger. I don't remember eating it oh did they have blake's a lot of burger oh yeah blake's a lot of no one knows about blake's but us they were big you get jalapenos on their green chili green chili cheeseburgers the best green chili cheeseburgers so then i was just there back in school doing my thing and then uh working at schlotzky's yeah i got and i then had an agent from doing the movie were you the singing schlotzky's. Yeah. I got an, I then had an agent from doing the movie. Were you the singing Schlotzky's guy? Did you? I did enjoy the, when I had the job to finish the sandwiches and call out to people's names.

Yeah. And I would make up rhymes. Uh-huh. I would Lin-Manuel Miranda myself. You couldn't help yourself no matter where you were. This is, I got some stage time. Yeah. I'm going to talk to the people.

You want a 12 foot sandwich that's less than two feet. This sandwich is for a guy named Pete. Oh, and some guy grumbles up. Shut the fuck up, kid. Look, he was trying to eat on break. So, all right, so you're, okay. And then I went and I was asked randomly, occasionally, to go do other weird things.

So I went and did a movie called Purple People Eater. What was that? The Sheb Wooley song by the same name. Purple People Eater. Sheb Wooley was in the show, in the movie. What was that? The Sheb Wooley song by the same name. Brian and Purple People Eater. Sheb Wooley was in the show, in the movie. He was? Yeah, as was.

Was that a big movie? No. No, it was a children's film. It was one of my worst experiences. But that we got to film in LA. Why was it a worst experience? It was just not good. Really?

It was not well made and the director wasn't... director was a tyrant woman. Oh, yeah? Who was in that? What's her name? Was it all kids? Was it one of those all kids thing? It was a kids movie, except the co-star was this giant puppet creature that was-

The purple people eater? Wouldn't you know, a one-eyed- One horn. One horned ned baity sure it was my grandpa and shelly winters was in it oh well that's that's why that was the pitch and i said sure because rather work than working at schlotzky's ned baity's great don't make ned baity was great it was lovely shellyters, a piece of work. Yeah. Oh, what? What are we waiting for? Oh, and she had a pillow.

My back, my back is always, oh, my back is worried. And she had this round pillow to protect her butt. And so she'd carry around this pillow and that was trying. I feel like that's an Oscar winner you're talking about. That's worth a VHS trip. I feel like she was like a method-y person. She was like one of the early people's theater.

But Mark, how method can you be in a movie called Purple People Eater? Did you see her in Poseidon Adventure? She nailed it. Nailed it. Man, she did the swimming thing and then died right after. Fewer puppets in that, probably. Then Doogie Howser came along along the audition for it i ended up

booking that job and then uh then we had moved to albuquerque i think by then so i do half the year in la with a tutor and then uh since that was only a 30 minute single camera show uh when the season was done it was right at second semester of school, I'd go back to Albuquerque. And that was cool. And you were a celebrity. I guess so. Yeah. I mean, Doogie Howser was a popular show. It was. And you did like, how many did you make? Did that like? That was four seasons. I think they did 97 shows, enough for syndication. Just barely, huh? Yeah. So that was it. And then you did that for like three or four years and then you get done with that and you're a grownup, but you're Doogie Howser for a lot of people. That's very true.

And back then it was a very divided work ethic. There were TV actors and there were film actors and they didn't intersect very often. No, I know exactly. But even on TV, you still had to deal with this sort of like, oh, it's Doogie Howser's in this one. Sure, yeah. But it's not Doogie Howser.

Sure. Right? That was quite the albatross. For how long? You probably still get it occasionally. Yeah, it's not like a sore subject or an open wound or something. No, because you look youthful and you still look. I find people that say, hey, Doogie Howser, I love you on that other show.

Right. Which is fine. They don't know your real name. You're just a point. It's Doogie Howser. It wasn't. And you did a bunch of other little parts. And you actually appeared as Doogie Howser in some other shows.

I did on a very special Roseanne episode. You were a punchline of jokes forever. I was punchlines of jokes here and there. Yeah, because it was a funny idea. Any medical young, any medical plus youth equals a Doogie Howser punchline. Doogie Howser punchline.

I go to the doctor. Doogie Howser. Probably 75 people who are doctors who look kind of youngish come up to me begrudgingly saying, I just have to tell you. And share their stories about how annoying it is that they're called Doogie Howser.

And I feel their pain. But, you know, what I have learned in all of my 44 years is that I like to hope for longevity and multiple chapters in a book and not just hoping that the thing that you're doing is what's going to happen forever. Of course, of course. And so I had that perspective at the beginning of Doogie Howser. And you worked, you kept working.

Stephen Bochco was the producer of that show, and he had done Hill Street Flues and L.A. Law. He did Doogie Howser? Yeah, he was a one-hour, and David Kelly. So it was two really- David Kelly. So it was early on in both of their careers. Correct.

He just has a big thing now. What's his big thing now? The Little Lies? Big Little Lies? Oh, yeah, you're absolutely right. Yeah, yeah. Good for him. And he did the other one with Calista Flockhart.

What was that one? Ally McBeal. Ally McBeal. Ally McBeal. This feels like a quiz show. Married Michelle Pfeiffer. He did. And she's still just gorgeous. And great acting.

Yep, yep. She's a very good actress. But Bochco said to me early on, listen, he sat me down and said, kid, listen, this is going to be like surfing, that you're going to catch this wave. We hope that it's good, that it lasts a long time. The wave will crash. Yeah. And you will have to decide whether you want to swim back out. And in doing so, you're going to get nailed by other waves and have to right yourself. And once you do, you're going to sit out there for a while waiting for another good wave to come.

And that was sort of his metaphor. And I dug it, and I still appreciated it. So when I was stressed about the Doogie Howser-ness of it all, I appreciate it the same time that I just needed some time to pass between. And that was during the TV movie years, the TV movie decade, where I could do a TV movie a year.

Yeah. And where I- Was that enough though? Yeah. They paid good money for this. Oh, they did? Yeah. And then you'd go to Vancouver or Toronto and you'd...

And were you living out here full time by then? I was living here full time by then, yeah. But you moved out after Doogie or in the middle of Doogie? When I graduated in 91. Towards the end of Doogie. Yeah, I moved out here full time. With your folks? Nope.

No? Solo style. And when did... Were you out then? No. No? No. Not really?

But you weren't struggling with anything? Well, I think I was struggling more with figuring out how to, who I was, how to be as a person. Right. Sexuality, certainly, I guess, a pivotal part of that that but just how to stand tall and how to move my limbs because when you're doing a show for four years you're just meant to stand still so that the focus puller doesn't have to do much work you know deliver the joke yeah so i went so i found that i didn't know how to really move as an actor or as a human as a human and then when i went out people would sort of recognize me and i kind of wanted anonymity and i kind of wanted to

just figure shit out and try to be an asshole or try to be goth or i don't know what just what tries to go through a golf thing no i didn't but i didn't i didn't have the ability to do that of course not people would have noticed that pictures all over that was just doogie howser goes goth i guess so well thankfully it wasn't a tmz world i mean the internet was very very new back then too so so information still didn't pass so quicklyz world i mean the internet was very very new back then too so so information still didn't pass so quickly but i was just paranoid and i didn't feel like i was able to just exist as i wanted to i was still locked in this how do i exist to uh please other people and i think the judgment was different i mean it still wasn't you know being

out was not a huge like everyone wasn't out yet for sure it was a question that was taboo to ask yeah it was sort of a right shame on you for asking the question and then everybody's sort of like we think he's and i was also really i didn't develop very quickly yeah so even at 17 or 18 i just looked much younger right so so opportunity never really came right away yeah yeah i had desires but they were so there was no way in la i was going to at 20 years old with a fake id go to rage on you know and see what happens i was like not in that wasn't how you're gonna get started no so i just sort of did this young Hollywood thing

and went to all those bars that they went to. Yeah, yeah. And did you date, though? Yeah. Oh, good. I dated a fair amount. So girls. I didn't date guys for a long time.

Oh, really? Mm-hmm. Oh, okay. Is that what you mean by dating? Did I date guys? Yeah. No, how would I meet them? I thought, well, I mean, you know, don't, like I wouldn't.

I mean, give me an instance where that would happen. Well, you're hanging out with other young people and I imagine that there's other young people that were in the same boat that you were and you just had to sort of happen upon them. Yeah, that never really. Oh, never really happened? I could assert that some of the friends

that I hung out with were in a similar situation. Right. But that wouldn't be a conversation. Oh, right. We'd both be trying to act super tough and straight. Cool. Right. Yeah.

Where are the chicks at? Who you banging tonight? Smell my finger. Oh, good. That one. That classic. That one was great. Yeah, sure.

I use it a lot. Oh, did you? No, I never did, actually. Well, were you taking, like, What was your training, though? I mean, because you sort of came into the movement and the body and all that other stuff. But did you train as an actor at all? No. No, I didn't.

I did four. I really just learned by being on set. To one of those guys. Right. Because the Bochco Doogie Howser work, I mean, the name is ridiculous, but the work was good. Because the Bochco Doogie Howser work, I mean, the name is ridiculous, but the work was good. I mean, we were doing six, seven pages a day of single camera, hardcore medical jargon. Sure.

Walk and talks, long one shots. I mean, we were having to work hard. So I got a good education about how you make a film, even though it was a TV show. It was single camera and it was work. So when I was done with that, I went and started doing theater. I went and did some Shakespeare. I did Romeo and the Old Globe in San Diego. And I did-

How'd that go for you? Really, really great. You could take, you took to the language? I took to the language. I was terrified of it. I felt like a super fish out of water. No coach. No.

Well, they gave me a guy named Dakin Matthews, who's still a prolific actor and works all the time, was living in San Diego. And he sat with me for a full week before we started the first rehearsal. And we went through all the text and he explained iambic pentameter and what it meant. He went through all the text and he explained iambic pentameter and what it meant. Because one of the feelings I hate to this day is feeling fraudulent, you know, is feeling like I don't belong. Yeah. And so when you go to a Shakespeare company of people who have trained in the theater and Shakespeare.

Yeah. And now you're the lead. Because you're a child star. Because you're on TV. Yeah. You're at this weird, I thought a weird deficit of judgment. Right. And so, and there's no way to quickly inform yourself of the canon of Shakespeare. Sure.

So I just kind of had to go for it and acknowledge that it was uncomfortable for me. And through that sweaty rehearsal feeling like shit. Yeah. Then you get better. And you kind of. how were the uh how was the response great it was a good it was dan sullivan directed it he's a big giant uh prolific film director uh theater director and emily bergel was my juliet and it was set in the past so we were fighting with broadswords and and it was a really great really great production and it was

one of those things once you wrap your head around Shakespeare and know why you're speaking, not just speaking the words to rhyme, then 45 minutes will rip by and you realize that you're lying there banging your head on the floor because you're wailing in the monologue and you're really actually in it.

Oh, wow. I don't know, it sort of forced you to- It's magic. Yeah, because you're not speaking in contemporary dialogue. You're speaking within the world that you're really actually in it. Oh, wow. I don't know. It sort of forced you to... It's magic. Yeah, because you're not speaking in contemporary dialogue. You're speaking within the world that you're in and that's a pretty intense world. I really, really enjoyed that. I went and did Rent, the musical.

After that? So you got the bug? The second national tour of Rent. Yeah, I did theater for a while and that's how I moved to New York to do more theater. Well, was that because you wanted to or because the TV work was, what? I always loved the spectacle do more theater. Was that because you wanted to or because the TV work was what? I always loved

the spectacle of the theater. I would go to New York once I was doing TV and had the money to do it. I would go on hiatuses and see 14 shows in 11 days and just see

everything that was there i just fucking loved it i love i love that i still love it i love that in the same theater you can sit and watch an amazing show with sets that move and performances you like the big stuff or all of it i tend to like the big stuff my first big musical was les miserables that i saw i have a backstory with les mis but it's kind of boring. What happened? Well, I didn't get Clara's Heart eventually, originally. Oh, the movie Whoopi?

Yeah, they had a different director at that time, and they cast another kid. So I went and did the audition with Mark, and all of that went really well. And then I didn't get it, and a kid named Brayden Danner did it. And he was the original Gavroche, who's a character in Les Mis on Broadway. Yeah. So I suddenly felt kinship to this kid. Because you saw him in Les Mis? No, because I just knew that's who he was, so I bought the soundtrack to Les Mis,

and I listened to it and listened to it, and I just sort of felt like I had a brotherhood with him because I almost got this part and he got it. And so Les Mis became and still is probably my favorite of all the sort of musicals. But I thought you did get the part eventually. Of the... Right. In the movie. Well, they ended up replacing the director and then replaced Braden and then hired a new director.

Did you ever meet Braden? I've never met him, no. He probably doesn't feel the kinship and the brotherhood that i probably do towards him i'd give him a bear hug and he'd punch me in the nuts i don't know i don't know where that guy is so then like after all this stuff like you get this other huge show and you're on there forever but you do other stuff like i'm just this is how i'm this is how i'm conversing i'm looking at all your stuff. So I did a big chapter of theater, and I did some Broadway stuff. Which ones? Rent's not Broadway.

I did Proof. Oh, that's big. Who'd you play opposite of? Anne H. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Have you ever had her on the show? No.

I haven't heard about her lately. I wonder if she's doing all that. She does shows, like series work here and there. Yeah, yeah. She's on a new series. I did Cabaret as the emcee. Oh, that's great. But that was later, wasn't it?

Fairly recently? I mean, that was before your mother? Correct, yeah. Oh, yeah? So I did that. So you're becoming a real theater guy. And then I was asked, while I was doing Cabaret,

to be in that Harold and Kumar movie. Okay. Harold and Kumar. And you played yourself? You played Doogieogie hauser they want no neil patrick harris and i was this like super horny drugged out oh that's right ecstasy guy and i steal harold and kumar's car yeah and i worked for a few days on that and uh and then that playing against type very much against type uh but sort of owning the doogie stuff and sort of being that joke, but in a fun way.

Okay. And it got a little bit of respect. And then Carter Bays and Craig Thomas, who wrote How I Met Your Mother and were the executives on that, were fans of that. Okay. And so I ended up auditioning and getting that-

And playing against type again. Barney Stinson. Yeah. Nine years on that show. That was definitely doubly syndicated. Yeah. It's still on a lot of days, a lot of hours. It's crazy.

I talked to Radner years ago in here. I mean, you guys really had, and I've talked to Jason. Sure. But that was a huge show. Yeah. I think that erased some dooginess. Right? Totally. But that was a huge show. Yeah. I think that erased some dooginess. Mm-hmm. Right?

Totally. Because he was nothing like Doogie in any way. And he was just super straight guy, baller. Yeah. Sharp dressed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Scotch drinking. Did you like doing that?

Loved. I loved that gig. That was a great, great gig. Good people, right? Great work environment. Great people writing it. A great, great gig. Good people, right? Great work environment, great people writing it, a great woman directed it, and I got to wear suits all the time. I mean, he was a real character.

But I think one of the fears that I had, and I assume other people have when they sign up for a sitcom, is that you wind up six, seven years later being Urkel, being sort of the butt of the joke. You beat that one. The sight gag of the joke. But you beat that one. I don't mean as a person. I think Jaleel White's a super nice guy.

I just mean you don't want to end up being the character on a sitcom where you walk in and everyone laughs at what you're wearing. Gary Coleman. You don't want to be the butt of the joke. You don't know if that's going to happen when you sign up to do the pilot because you don't even know

if the pilot's going to get picked up. In turn, Barney was the opposite of that. He looked great, always had all these rules, delusionally awesome. And also, but you'd already sort of weathered that storm with Doogie Howser. Really? I guess a little bit. Sure. And then it seems that everybody in that show weren't hampered at all by uh by the tv prison of it no i embraced

it yeah i know but i mean like you went on to do many other things is what i'm saying josh he makes his own movies he's around he does stuff but the other thing also i would imagine with something like that is that i i don't know how people make a shit ton of money really find it within themselves to keep working. That's interesting. No, I just mean like I wonder about that. I mean, it seems like everyone does usually. You know, I'm not in that club. But it would seem that would buy you some reprieve

or maybe you would think you would have won and maybe you do other things that you really wanted to do or maybe you're doing exactly what you want to do. I don't know. I guess so. I mean, the sentence getting a shit ton of money makes it sound like it all comes at once. And I guess if you won the lottery or something, you'd be more inclined to drop everything and then just change your life. But when you're acting and you're aware of how

much money you're not making, and then you get a job and you're making good money, but it's still season one and you're hoping that it gets to syndication and then you reneg a job and you're making good money, but it's still season one. Right. And you're hoping that it gets to syndication. And then you renegotiate and you're suddenly spending more because you're making more. Sure. And it suddenly doesn't feel like you've got the windfall. Yeah. So when it's done, then you're, I was thinking more of what do I do now to sort of maintain. Yeah.

The four houses. The ability to work. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do I do now to maintain this building I bought? I didn't have a building. Okay.

I wasn't a big building and cars guy. I had a nice house in the valley. Yeah, I don't like to buy anything. I bought this other house and I'm freaking out about it. Like, I'm surprised I did it, but I'm excited about it. Yeah. Was it more expensive than you wanted to pay for it? Not really, because, like, I'm in that situation where I don't have kids.

I don't have a wife. And, like, I made some money with the shows. And this does well. And I'm on Glow on Netflix now. You're so good on that show. Oh, thanks, bro. Can I just say? Oh, thank you.

It's so good. And you're so horrible on it in such a subtle way. Like your character is horrible, not you as an actor person. Yeah. Good. Well, I appreciate that. I've never done cocaine in my life ever. Yeah.

And so it seems very cokie. So no drugs for you ever? No, I've done, I've smoked a fair amount of pot. Yeah. And I've played with the acidy. Yeah. I did that once. I did mushrooms a few times.

Sure. Every time. Convinced this time would be better than the last. And I always wind up in my bathroom in front of the mirror looking at myself going, you can do this, dude. Pull your shit together. You can just fucking just go. Just let go. Just pull your fucking shit together.

And then that never works out. Night of that. Always. Five times I've done that and I decided I'm done with that. Done with mushrooms. But the cocaine never, ever has ever come my way. I have never been at a party where there was, I don't know, a pile of it on a table. Yeah.

I've never been. That's a pretty high-end party, specific type of party. I went to a party at Jack Nicholson's house. Yeah. And I was talking to everyone. We're super amped up, and they were all so lovely. And they kept going upstairs to the bathrooms upstairs. Sure.

And I only realized as I was getting in the car that that's probably what was going on. Yeah. But it's never been offered me. I don't know why. Why were you at Jack Nicholson's house? That's a really good question. Friend of a friend. Oh, yeah?

I guess so, yeah. Did you talk to Jack? I did say hello to him, yeah. And that was about it? That was about it, yeah. Oh. His daughter? Daughter? Uh-huh. Does he have a daughter? I think so, yeah. I think was about it? That was about it, yeah. His daughter? Daughter?

Uh-huh. Does he have a daughter? I think so, yeah. I think she was in her 20s or something like that, so it was more her party than... And was he wandering around like a bathrobe? He had sunglasses on, but I don't think a bathrobe. I wonder how he's doing out there.

I just wonder about him. I miss seeing him at the Oscars and stuff, but he's old now, you know? Does he not act anymore, really, ever? I haven't seen him at all in anything, but he used to, at the very least, sit up front at the Oscars and stuff, but he's old now, you know? Does he not act anymore, really, ever? I haven't seen him at all in anything, but he used to, at the very least, sit up front at the Oscars. Yeah, and give the look.

Yeah, with his glasses on. And he knew he was stoned. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I love that. He wasn't there when you hosted, was he? I don't believe so, no. I don't remember when he stopped going.

It was Oprah was in the front row when I was there. That was the big deal, Oprah. Well, what is it with the, now, are you a practicing magician? Yeah. Well, yeah, I guess so. Yeah. I'm a collector and I love magic. I love, the same way I love circus and juggling and sort of the variety arts.

How are you juggling? Trapeze and trampolining. Pretty good. You do all those things? You trapeze? Yep. Yep. And you trampoline?

Yeah. And you do magic. Close-up magic? Or good you do all those things you trapeze yep yep and you trampoline yeah and you do magic close-up magic or do you do big i've been your house i've been you have a tank i've been a water torture cell yeah that's where the kids go when they misbehave because i see all through your sort of information about you there's a through line of magic i love sort of, I love live experiential entertainment. And maybe that came from being in Ruidoso. And once a year, the state fair would be in Albuquerque. We'd drive up for three hours

and at the state fair, there would be the midway and you'd go back and there'd be the freak show, you know, and it would be- Ronnie and Donnie. You'd go and you'd see Popeye,

the dude with his eyes that would open up. Yeah, man. His eyes would bulge and stick out. Did you see the guy with the biggest feet? No. Did you see Ronnie and Donnie, the Siamese twins? They were touring for a while. Really?

No, I never saw them. It was mostly livestock. It would be the world's biggest pig. Oh, but you didn't see the little guy, the world's littlest man who was all like, he looked like a little basketball. I think there might have been a little person, but probably not that dude. Did you get the Indian fry bread? Always.

Yeah. But through that was a lot of magic tricks, right? Because there'd also be the spider lady, which was just a magic trick. It was a woman that looked like she was on a cobweb and her arms were spider arms, but it was just a mirror, a 45 degree mirror effect. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I was kind of fascinated by magic through performance. Through the spider lady. I loved all of that.

So I loved when circuses would come into town. I saw every Cirque du Soleil show and it would go through Santa Monica. And my love of magic just kind of grew. I became a junior member of the Magic Castle. Yeah. And then- How did you become that? Do you have to perform for people?

Yeah, I auditioned. Really? Did a little set. You know Andrew Goldenhirsch? I do, very well. Yeah. Lovely guy. Yeah, he's a good guy.

Super good. He's a good magician, right? Great magician. Yeah. And he's a great magician. He'll do all kinds of gigs. Yeah. He can fill a whole stage at the

magic castle but he can also go and work a business party or something yeah work a line do equally good stuff and so that's we live in a technological society almost exclusively now a lot of people wait to see movies on apple tv because their their screen in their living room is gigantic right so why why not just wait and own it, right? So I think there's a reason to go see Broadway shows. There's a reason to go to Sleep No More and see immersive theater. There's a reason to go to the Magic Castle. Magic is one of those things that is much, much better when you're doing it live.

The human element. Yeah. You're blown away when you see david copperfield saw someone in two in front of you less exciting as a tv special yeah still cool to see right but you assume there's trickery but not but when you're actually there watching this stuff actually happen so yeah i'm pretty fascinated with it do you see that i don't go though nope i don't go to anything why i don't know't know, man. Don't you feel like? I'm missing life a little. That kind of life.

Well, like, but you go, do you check out other? I always get very moved. You know what I mean? Like, I watch a lot of comedy. I'll go see some music. I'll go see shows sometimes. Cabarets and? Well, not too much of that.

I don't do the cabaret thing. But like, when I go to New York, the last few times I've been there, I've been set up with tickets because I interviewed Annie Baker. So I saw her stuff. Nice. I like musicals when I go. I don't, but I don I've been there, I've been set up with tickets because I interviewed Annie Baker, so I saw her stuff. Nice. I like musicals when I go, but I don't seek them out. I don't know why. There's some part of me that just doesn't want to have a good time, Neil.

Okay. I don't know why. You don't? I always enjoy them. So how are you with exercise? Good. Pretty good. Do you consider that a bad time?

Yeah, it's a bad time. You know it's going to be a bad time, but you're going to do it's pretty bad i could use more cardio how are you with it yeah i work out a fair amount yeah but i it's hard for me to say go on a hike once i'm on the hike i'm loving it it's nice yeah but i feel that way about everything that exact feeling is what there's not a part of you that says if i i know that if i see a show like this it's harder in la though because no it is get in a car and go to the mark taper forum downtown and park and to see a show and you don't know new york you just go like their house seats available yeah you get on the subway and you go see i always enjoy theater even

if it's shitty well the next time you're in new york i'm producing a show a one-man magic show by a guy named derek delgadio it's called in and of itself yeah and it's playing to august and it's unbelievable it's all magic it's a monologue that he tells it's about 80 minutes no intermission and throughout it there's five different effects that he does and none of them are pick a card any card or for my next trick kind of thing it's all kind of ruminations about uh identity and and he speaks to the audience it's you would okay it's it's a truly special thing it's extended four times and and it's played almost for a year now it's great broken records there i saw the magic show when i was a child with doug henning yes no way i did i heard it wasn't

very good i don't know My grandma brought me in. I must have been like eight or nine. When was that? Early 70s, right? Mid. Mid 70s. I think so. So I was like 13, something maybe.

Doug Henning. He was great. Canadian magician from the- Saw that when I was a kid. I saw the black guys and dolls when it first- No kidding. The first black cast of guys and dolls because my aunt and uncle brought me to that. I saw Beatlemania when I was a little kid.

I saw James Earl Jones in Fences here in LA. And that was a real pivotal moment because I was very emotional watching Lynn Thigpen recite a monologue while she peeled potatoes about how difficult her life was. It's a fantastic monologue. Great. And I was weeping and I was young. I, it was right at the beginning of coming to LA ever. And I was,

I was really moved by the fact that I knew nothing about Baltimore or this plight or this life. Yeah. And I was so impacted by what it is they were saying. Yeah. And I think that theater has the opportunity to do that in a way that I probably wouldn't have been as moved if I was on my couch in the living room watching the same thing. Yeah.

Because I would have distraction. Sure. No, theater's great. I mean, like, in my life, I've gone, and I definitely like going. Yeah, it's just a little bit hard, especially on the West Coast. It's hard to do theater on the West Coast. Well, who are your magicians? Give me a lesson.

Historically, who should I know? Who are the, like, give me a lesson. Historically, who should I know? Who are the greats? Well, probably I would go stage magicians more. So Thurston, Howard Thurston, Harry Houdini, Dante, Servi LaRoy, those ones who invented and did the big giant tours on trains. As far as mentalism, I james randy's super strong mentalism what's the difference what's mentalism that's mentalism is that close up no it's uh i

can predict something that you're thinking of oh okay okay so and that's a trick write something write something in this envelope they don't really do it i'll put this in an envelope do you know the tricks then i'll hold it up i know most of the tricks yeah yeah that doesn't bother you that i know the tricks yeah no because again i liked and i like i like knowledge so i like to know how do you know did they tell you did somebody break the oath or are you part of the brotherhood so you're allowed to know them well i think when you've studied enough you have some you can suppose how things are done you know you do oh there's moves multiple measures of how things are accomplished and I think what's fun

is when someone like Derek and Derek DelGaudio will come up with a whole different way to do anything and sure and then only a few people know how it's done at all yeah and then magicians that see it are blown away because they have no idea Andrew takes I think a chicken or a rabbit out of his hair. He does. That seems difficult. He takes a chicken out of his hair at the end. Yeah, and then he does the thing with the butterfly tattoo. Yeah.

Which he sold to Copperfield, but then I think he got it back. Wasn't that an origami thing at first? Didn't he take an origami and fold it up into something and it turned into a butterfly? Oh, maybe, maybe. Maybe it was an origami. I thought that he actually made a butterfly tattoo turn into a butterfly. Maybe I'm misremembering it.

Close-up magic can go... I mean, you can go way back with people and names of people from who wrote amazing books to... You like Ricky Jay? I mean, he's not really... What does he do? He's a historian, right? I find Ricky Jay a curmudgeon.

Uh-huh. And so it's, from all accounts, I hear that he's, that unless he takes a shine to you, he doesn't like things. So that disappoints me a bit, but every show that I've seen him do, I've absolutely loved. He's good? Yeah, he's great. he is a historian yeah in fact his last show i think there were a bunch of different numbers on a big giant screen behind him and people would shout out a number and the whatever was behind the number

something would appear and he would talk for 20 minutes about whatever that was so theoretically on every any show you could see anything yeah He knows a lot about the histories of magic that I certainly don't. Yeah. That's its own whole skill is knowing the names I think he likes the dark side too.

Where they're from. Sort of the hustle of it. He was a hustler. Yeah. Yeah. Like when magicians were doing it for, you know.

I loved him as an actor too. He's good. He's in the Mammoth movies. Yeah. And he was in Magnolia. He was in Magnolia. Boogie Nights, was he in that?

Have you ever talked to him? Paul Thomas Anderson? No, I just read a whole article about him. He's a very goofy guy. Really? He grew up in the Valley. His dad was a wacky TV host from Cleveland or something. That's right.

And his dad and Tim Conway were best friends. No way. Yeah. I thought he was some, like, dark genius. He comes over here. He's just a goofy dude from the valley. And it's very entertaining to talk to him. So what is a goofy dude like that?

Where does he get that stuff? Why is he so fucking... Maybe that's just his, you know, that's his public persona. But he's obviously an incredible filmmaker. The Phantom Thread? He's got real balls with the filmmaking. Like, you know, he's not afraid of what's going to come at him director that's the job that's right that's where i'm headed is it wow that's the plan what are you gonna right now i'm quiz show host producer i'm actor

on netflix i'm a children's book writer and uh and when all of this uh calms down it's gonna be directing more. Well, let's talk about hosting real quick though. How did you sort of get into that? Because that's like one of those jobs. There's a few people that do it. Not everybody does it. Some people get a shot at doing it,

but you've done it a lot. So you're a host. You can host a big event. The Oscars, the Tonys over and over again, the Emmys, you've hosted all of them. How did you get into that? What was the... I was on CBS.

And so the Tonys was on CBS. And so they pull from their own talent pool because then they can sort of self-promote. Yeah. And so they asked me to host the Tonys one year, and it wasn't super heavy lifting. I think they had asked a bunch of other people who had passed. Yeah.

And so they asked me to do it. It was the big opening number that they had done with not the host, but a bunch of all of the Broadway shows put together. It's one where Bret Michaels got whacked in the head from a set piece. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was a big controversy. And then I came out and told some jokes, and it went really well. And so then they were pleased with my confidence,

and so I was still on the network when the Tonys came around the next year, so I did that. So once you've done it a couple times, you're on the short list of people. And then the Emmys, every four years, it switches networks every year. So every four years, it would go switches networks every year uh-huh so every four years it would go back to cbs so i did that yeah uh because of it was being on cbs and you could do it yeah the chops i guess so yeah and the oscars that must be the most intimidating gig in the world yeah well not really i mean i just find it very uh it's, it's its own little machine that's eating its own tail.

It's a hard one. It's a hard one to crack. In what way? Like, I mean, you go out there, everyone in show business is there. It's intimidating in my mind. And, you know, I have to imagine that you have to sort of realize you're not going to get an amazing response. Correct.

And you've got to just suck it up. It's the last award of a long cycle now of award shows. So by the time they're at the Oscars, everyone is exhausted from the gauntlets of the Golden Globes. Right. All of them. SAG Awards. There's so many now.

And Oscars is last. So you're dealing with actors who have who are promoting a show that they did a year and a half ago they've already completed another show and they're probably working on another movie for the movie yeah so they're talking they're glazy because they're talking about something that's two chapters ago yeah they're pretty sure who's gonna win yeah by that time you kind of know that right this actor's won 11 of the last 12 yeah you still have to put on the thing and go around and do all the stuff. And you're waiting in a long queue of cars, and then it's really intimidating and daunting,

all the people screaming at you and the photographers. And you're sort of interacting with other famous people that you don't know. And that's a weird thing. And then you sit down. You can't eat. You can't drink. You're there for four hours. It's run by the academy

the motion picture academy so you have to honor sound design and you have to honor costume design and you have to honor a lot of things that the general public

doesn't know anything about right so then it can read boring right inside baseball too much because you need to let the sound designer

thank all the people sure but no one knows who he's talking about right the award show dynamic is tricky enough as it is. And now I think the studios are releasing films to be Oscar contenders at a certain time

to get into certain festivals. They're small films that then no one has really seen. They don't make a lot of money. They just come out to be Oscar movies. Yeah, that's true. And then ratings drop and then everyone panics because how do we get more eyes on the show

and you're talking about Whiplash which was a great movie. Yeah, but the only people that see it is people who get screeners. Exactly. Kind of. I get screeners and I don't end up seeing them all. Yeah. So I think it's just a difficult one. It's a daunting beast.

It needs to be reshaped in some way because there's so many award shows that are like it, but in many ways better. I think Jimmy did great last year. And this year, I think he did real well, but he was a little more biting last year. He took some more shots in the monologue. Agreed, but this year,

there were so many controversial things that were hot button stuff. And they knew by after the Golden Globes, they can watch how the other hosts handle things to see if anything's flying and then be like, let's do it. But the me too movement, the timeout movement,

very real and valuable and valid things. Right. So you can't really mock them. You can't really mock the people. You have to do a Harvey Weinstein joke, but if you go there too hard, you're, you know,

it's a, it's a tricky, that's tricky, but I just like, he busted, it's a tricky line. That's tricky. But I just like he busted balls on the actors more. Yeah, agreed. He still busted balls. I thought that that runner of the jet ski thing was brilliant. Yeah, it was funny.

I thought it was so funny. Yeah, yeah. Because it was dumb, but it was something that you at home could still make your own jokes about. Well, that's what he does is that he's able to bring it to the regular people. I love that he takes the piss out of the elevated nature of that thing. When he walked those people in last year from outside, that was one of the best things ever. Just those people like with their phones, you know, like.

He was good. He did a great, great job. Both years, I think. Yeah, absolutely. Jimmy Kimmel is an outstanding representation of award show host. Yeah, it's good. He did a great, great job. Both years, I think. Yeah, absolutely. I think Jimmy Kimmel is an outstanding representation of award show host. Yeah, it's good. And you're going to keep doing them, right? Yeah.

I don't know. All right, so tell me. You get asked to do them. You don't really. You don't put in for it? Right. I'm available. So tell me about directing.

When does that start? How much have you done? I've done, I directed a How I Met Your Mother episode. Yeah, just one out of 200. Some theater stuff. They wouldn't throw you another one? Just the one. How hard did you have to fight for that one out of 200?

Well, it's more difficult being on the show. Yeah, oh, that's true. And then directing multiples. You know, it's an ensemble cast. It's not a real great experience when you're on the show and directing, because you have to go back and forth you're double dipping a little bit but i enjoyed it very much uh again i really like i really like being on set and watching the crew work and honoring what they do and i and i think that that all that part of it's fun so it would

be fun for me i want to direct uh i want to do i i i'm thinking of trying to reinvent kind of the improv comedy movie. Give me an example of what that is. The Guffman-Christopher Guest ideal of filming stuff with bullet points and getting great actors that may not be A-list, which is probably better due to scheduling, but that are super talented and funny. You want to do one of those? Yeah.

I think that that deserves to be done again. And I think not only would that be fun to watch, but if done right, it would be really fun to execute. It would be really fun to do. Have you done any of Improv-y? Yeah, I have. I did Joe Swanberg's Easy, which is on Netflix. I did two episodes of that each year.

It's a show that is an anthology show. So it's just 10 episodes that are their own thing based in chicago with chicago people and i played that there was an episode first season with me as this guy and then we brought the guy back but it's all improv i love that or curb your enthusiasm i think which was just great but i i kind of want to do something that would be fun to do and therefore be fun to watch. Yeah, no, it sounds great. Would you be in it? Probably not. Okay.

And you got people in mind? You got an idea in mind? Sounds like you got one. I do. I have an idea in mind. All right. When are you going to do it? This fall would be my favorite choice, but we'll see if it can happen.

Shoot it for cheap? That would be the idea. Some micro budget, shoot it for super cheap and then own it outright and um and then try and sell it and hope that it does well how did you like doing hedwig oh i loved it yeah i talked to him uh john cameron mitchell yeah yeah we did a pilot for something an interview thing but never got released but i spent like three hours with him and uh it's a really he's great i i it was another chapter of my life that is so unlike me. And yet I got to do it. And it was well received. And it was rock and roll. And I was just not a punk rock and roll guy. And I had my own internal issues about how to carry myself and not be too effeminate and so i had to get over that very quickly and and own femininity and then stomp around in a very david bowie kind of way and and shriek all of these songs to an audience of upper

east side people who'd paid too much money and yet the show is very moving so yeah they're initially kind of taken aback and then by the end of it they were emotional and feeling empathy towards someone that was nothing like them i don't know that's it it was it was fascinating to be a theater at its best a woman for a while oh yeah you loved it i don't know that i loved it it's a lot of work yeah tucking your testicles up into your way up higher than they're supposed to be and like oh yeah all of that stuff not so fun like getting into the stuff was a lot. The drag was tough. Oh, dude. Like eyelashes and making- But it must have been like when you were done up, when it was finished and you looked at

yourself, it really helps the transformation, right? So, so much. I mean, it's like so much of it. Like even when I put on Sam's clothes for Glow, I'm like, no, I'm this guy. Yeah. Yeah. And now I'm doing Olaf in Series of Unfortunate Events and I look nothing like myself. And you can just go to town.

It's not really you. Yeah. You're a little less insecure. Less self-conscious. Yeah. That's great. Well, it was great talking to you, man. Thanks, buddy.

You feel good? I feel great. This is a, I'm a huge fan of the podcast and have always been nervous about how it would go. Really? I thought it went great. It was fun. I didn't realize

that you'd even started have you pressed play yet oh fuck um but how's it your kids are good you're you're married kids are good my husband's great okay uh good we're working away kids are in seven years old they're in the first grade they couldn't be cooler they're in that sweet pocket where they want to be your friend and they want to learn stuff and and uh they're healthy yeah and everything's everything's super super swell good man i'm happy to hear it thanks for having me on yep that was neil patrick harris as i said genius junior his new show sunday nights on nbc he's also on netflix a series of unfortunate events all the episodes of season two are up now and that's uh that's it this is my first um

dispatch from the new space it sounds different it might be a little different but uh but we're gonna chip away i'm gonna make this the new home it It's going to happen. It's exciting. And I'm a little ungrounded, folks. I'm a little nervous. And I feel kind of raw, a little vulnerable without my little garage. All right? all right uh go to wtfpod.com slash tour to get venue and ticket information for my upcoming shows in london stockholm oslo amsterdam and dublin and uh yeah i i haven't set up my amps yet and uh i i can't i can't play guitar i know that's heartbreaking but i can do this. Boomer Lives! Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence.

Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising.

Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance

will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com.