WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 907 - Aisha Tyler / Louie Anderson

Episode Date: April 15, 2018

Aisha Tyler's directorial debut is a film called Axis about a guy who has hit the wall. That's appropriate for Aisha, following several years of big changes in her life. She ended a long marriage, walked away from a comfortable gig on The Talk, and got rid of most of her possessions. Aisha and Marc talk about what prompted these changes, what's happening now, and what's her next act. Plus, Louie Anderson returns to the show to talk about what it’s like to communicate with his deceased mother, which led to writing his new book. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lock the gate! Alright, let's do this. How are you what the fuckers, what the fuck buddies, what the fucksters, what the fucking ears? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast WTF. I'm in London, England. I'm fiddling with a control knob because I'm festering obsessively about sound. That seems to be the new thing. Why think about the world when I can think about sound? Why think about the horrendous horror of modern life politically and globally when I can just fiddle with a dial? Why don't I just fiddle with a knob?

On the show, two doubleheader, kind of. Well, I got a short one with the amazing and funny, and I'm always happy to see, Louis Anderson. And then the longer one, Aisha Tyler is here. Yeah. So those are good guests for this show, huh? I'm in London. I'm going to do a show tonight. Tonight I'm doing a show. If you haven't got tickets, I think it might have sold out at

Royal Festival Hall here in London. I'm very excited. I'm anxious. I found myself kind of spiraling surrounded by yellow pads and Post-its in an airport lounge in my travels when I was waiting at Kennedy Airport for seven hours because I got there a little early. I've outdone my mother. It's not three hours ahead. I got there seven hours just to make sure I was settled and actually knew people who worked at the airport by the time I got on the plane. I wanted to build relationships at the airport before I was leaving because I was feeling sort of lonely. And I just, you know, I thought it was important that I get to know the person at Hudson News after going there three times for this or that. I'm a little, I'm a bit jet lagged.

So if I'm not coming across completely, I'm jet lagged and Sarah, the painter is like in the room here. I'm not looking at her cause I can't play. I'm not going to make her an audience. She's, she's doing her work and this is my work, which is loud, but I'm not even looking back at her because I don't want to feel like I have an audience or that I'm not saying the right thing. See, look, she's pretending like I'm not even here. That's the biggest joke.

She's sitting there like, I'm just looking at my computer. There's not a man yelling into a microphone over there at the desk. So what have I been up to? Thanks for asking. I traveled intensely for a couple of days in many different types of vessels. I flew from L.A. to JFK on Wednesday night. I slept at the Crowne Plaza Airport. Those airport hotels, there's no way not to be there and not think that something fucked up is happening.

Like, what is going on here? What is really happening? I don't know why they're gnarly but they're they maybe it's just people in transit maybe i'm projecting i probably am but i thought there was it seemed like there was some some there seemed to be some russian collusion going on at the crown plaza outside of the airport i maybe i don't know what was happening i you know there were pilots and it was a strange glimpse into that moment when I'm checking in and then you see flight crews checking in and you realize

that is not an easy life. These are the hotels they stay at all the time. So I stayed there a night. Then I got up early in the morning. I went back to the airport, rented a Hertz rental car. Sometimes I decide to treat myself well and I want to rent a nice car. And I thought I had rented like the Infinity smaller SUV because me and Dino, Dean Delray had gotten one of those when we did a trip to Colorado. And that's what I thought I was getting. When I got to the airport, I went to the stall number and it was a full on black Cadillac Escalade, a giant car that when I got in it, I'm like, I guess this is what I'm doing. Then I realized like, wait, should I be driving somebody? Am I picking up a celebrity? Am I looping around? Is maybe Kanye going to get in and I'm going to take him out to Western Massachusetts?

Or am I just going to pretend like this is the car that I chose to drive myself around in? I opted out of that. I got a Charger. I got one of those, what is it, Dodge? One of those rockets. Because I think if I do that once a year, if I rent one of those cot cars, one of those muscle cars, one of those alpha extension look at me go cars, if I do that once a year that cuts down on the possibility that I'll impulse buy one in the future so it's good that I get it out of my system

so then I drove that all the way to Western Mass to North Adams where I was doing a gig, a talk at a wow, come on man seriously yeah, Williams thank you Sarah, see that's that's how that's that's the

fun part of going out with a middle-aged man let's just fill in the gaps of his eroding memory williams college i did uh i don't think i told you about this because i didn't see a need to promote it because i didn't think that many of you would it would be i didn't think there's going to be a rush on uh on my conversation about the quote unquote art of secular Jewish intimacy in conversation with Jeffrey Israel, the teacher out there, professor of religious studies. And I didn't really know what I was getting into or what that meant. But the good thing is, is he didn't have a clear idea either. And it was just a nice conversation. I think we touched on the topic we we dealt with the themes I got some laughs the crowd was good I enjoyed being at Williams for a few hours I saw some old family

friends and then the next day I drove back to New York City in my Dodge Charger the thrill of those cars I would think of any fast car like that is, is lost in that you can't really drive as fast as they want to go. And you just find pockets where you sit there ruminating in the car where it's sort of like, oh, man, this thing could go so fast. But I got to be cool. I'll just put it on cruise control. I don't want to get a ticket. And then if you're driving long enough, which I was, four hours, at certain points you're like, fuck it. I'm going to roll the dice.

And you just open it up to 80 90 miles an hour they can go 150 i was barely doing nothing you kind of work through the script in your head when you get pulled over what you're gonna say yeah i just didn't realize the power officer i'm sorry it's a rent-a-car and i had no idea that it would feel so good to step on the gas and go that fast i'm sorry what did i say i meant to say i didn't i didn't know how fast i was going so oh i forgot to mention i went to uh i forgot to mention i went to mass mocha the giant museum of contemporary art up there in north adams which was spectacular it was like great it was like all this giant giant i think it's an like an old mill

complex just old brick buildings huge spaces for art and um in that one of those huge spaces for art i sat down in a chair with a virtual reality rig on my head and entered a laurie anderson art piece in a huge building i I was in another reality. Okay, you're up to speed. I'm freaking out about the show tonight. I've got a lot of new material. I've got to integrate some classic stuff. Classic is a way of saying old that's not old.

All right, so when I got a request that Louis Anderson wanted to come on and talk about his new book, I was like, of course Louis can come over. I would love Louiserson to come over he's such a pleasant man and he came over to my new house he did a walkthrough he enjoyed my rugs and he liked the new house and then we went to the garage and he had some comments about the chair he thought he feels i should get a more comfortable chair for guests so they lose themselves but then i told him that that's the Obama chair. And I don't think that changed his mind much.

But Louie has a new book out. It's called Hey Mom, Stories for My Mother. But you can read them, too. It's available now wherever you get books. And this is me and Louie Anderson back in the new garage. And Louis Anderson back in the new garage. First of all, congratulations on the, what is it, the third season now? Yeah, third season of Baskets.

Or as some people say, I love you on buckets. On buckets. And last year you won an Emmy, right? First year. Yeah, first year I won the Emmy. Last year Trump won the Emmy. Trump won. I mean, Baldwin. that's right baldwin

that's right yeah but so you did the third season people love it and then on the cover you're in drag on the cover of the book yeah yeah hey mom it's good isn't it yeah is that is that's the episode i won the emmy for the uh easter brunch episode oh yeah that's great it was a lot of fun so how did the book well how did it come to be i was overwhelmed one day after playing a part playing the part basically uh-huh or feeling it you know i started feeling like different about my mom and you know because i'm playing a mom yeah and i went home and i in my phone wrote i just started writing a letter to her hey mom how are you yeah i'm sorry i haven't written for so long you know she's been gone for a long time yeah but i had i hadn't i talked to her all

the time you do you know yeah i talked to people you know my dad and my mom really my brothers and sisters uh-huh when you're when you're just at home you know know, when I'm out somewhere, I might go, look at this setup, huh? Right? My dad, look at this setup, huh? You need 10 minutes in here, Dad. You could get this all straightened out. He's got a mishmash. I don't know what he's doing with these things.

Trying to reach these. It looks Scientology-ish to me. I got obsessed with the sound. But that's your dad, huh? That's my dad. Look at this setup. What is this? Is this a craftsman house?

They're so dingy and dark, for God's sake. You got to open up at least part of the roof to get some damn light in. And my mom would go, hey, would you ever consider selling that rug? Wow, kid, that's a beauty. What is that, a 9x12? Is it an 8x6? i have a perfect spot for that if you're ever going to get rid of it i wish you would just let me know so your parents exist in you all the time all the time that's i never thought about the the the the practical therapeutic uh uh benefits of that it's good good because, you know, I have actually thought, you know,

I just was mean to that person, Dad, because of you, because you were mean. That's how I got that voice. I never was mean. You were mean. Then I learned how to be mean, and now I'm mean, but it's really you yelling at the person at the airline.

Oh, that's interesting. You know? It's hard to explain that to the person at the airline, but... Yeah, I always have to go back as my mother and go, listen, I'm so sorry. Because it's really true, because I will always go and apologize and go, listen, that wasn't me. That was just, I'm really sorry. I don't know what got into me. Yeah.

I'm fat. Yeah. And I'm hungry. So I'm hangry. I'm hangry, which I hate that expression hangry but but so that's interesting though so you you're in constant conversation with these with these parents that have been gone a long time but your brothers and sisters too yeah like I'll say to my brother you know I

have yeah we've lost seven believe it or not at 11 Wow so so I'll say I wish I would have done more to help you I wish I could have helped you be healthier. I wish I could have saved you. Because when you grow up in a big family like that, it's kind of like growing up in a commune. Yeah, yeah. Everybody has their place, and you're part of all them. I'm part of my sister Mary who loved to eat

and my mom who loved to eat you know and i'm i'm part of my dad who loved to indulge in alcohol i you know that addiction i have but i don't compulsively eat anymore so i feel like i'm i just feel so grateful for that you feel better right yeah because i used to like i still size up all the food I come across. I'm at a hotel and they have free, a cauldron of pretzels that you can take. And then they have a cauldron of cookies next to the cauldron of pretzels, I guess for a healthy or a not healthy choice. And then they have all the free sodas, juices in a little refrigerator that you can just take.

Like you can just take it, I say. Yeah, take all you want. Could I empty it? Because I'm a poor kid. Like I'm never going to have anything again. You're going to have it all. But I have to talk to myself about that. But what about when it's in the room, man?

They have it in the room, too. But the mini bar thing, because it's a ripoff in my mind. Oh, so that. So I just go, I'm not going to. And also, if you don't have anything in the mini bar, then that's the key. Are you telling them to empty it? I always empty. No, but I always take everything out and put my water and stuff in their little fridge.

But like after a show, you don't go back and eat the candy bar? No. No. Do you? Yeah. Oh. I don't know what else to do. I'm trying to reward myself.

Well, I always have the protein bars with me. Oh, yeah? Which ones? Quest, usually, because they're the least good tasting. Yeah. Not, I mean, in a bad way, but they're the least sugary. Right, right, right. There's one gram of sugar in them.

Oh, that's not bad. Yes, and like 28 grams of protein. Oh, great. So I need it because when you're in, when you're stopped compulsively eating, you forget to eat. Really? Yeah, because you're either all in or all out so yeah yeah you know i have to have

a schedule and that but the hard part is when you're on the road or when you're doing a book tour you know this yeah you're going everywhere in one day you're going to over 100 places yeah and doing like three bookstores it's like doing drugs it's like kind of a drug type of thing oh with the junket thing. So you do a radio show, then you go to the store, and then you're going to do a dinner or whatever. Yes, but no, I mean you go to the radio, then you go do a radio, you go do a TV,

you go do a podcast, then you go. So you've got to plan lunch in there because the agents and managers will fill up all the time. Right. They don't care about you. Yeah. They care about getting the book on. Selling that thing out. Yeah up all the time. Right. They don't care about you. Yeah. They care about getting the book on. Selling that thing out.

Yeah. Yeah. So this book. Yeah. What did you learn about yourself doing this? What a, how ungrateful I was to my mom at times. But I also understood that I was good to her too. But I learned mostly, man, man you better you should ask your parents

what you want to ask them yeah because you won't get it if they when they go you don't get a chance like I would like to know in my mom I was like how did you what was it with dad why would you stick with this monster that long was he was it just a time thing where when you have 11 children in the 60s yeah you don't uh or 50s you don't um you where are you gonna go with 10k yeah right what are you gonna nobody's gonna take in there's no shelters back then sure and what are you gonna do with your life i think was a big question and my mom, this is a great, this is one thing about my mom. When my dad quit drinking when he was 69, my mom turned to me and said, I told you he'd quit. And I said, that's, even then, even then I knew that was really the pathology of our family.

Yeah. As long as it works out at some point. Yeah. Yeah. You're validated. Yeah, you're validated. She won, I guess. I guess.

She never gave up. Did he become a better person after he quit drinking? No, he was meaner. No one's worse than he went to one AA meeting and went, I don't need that fucking AA. And then we had to quit going to Al-Anon because he quit going to, because we didn't have any strength with that. You know, we drove, with alcoholism, everything works off the alcoholic and the alcoholism.

Yeah. It all fuels. Right. You know, you're a part, like when you get home, you say, you think he's drinking? Yeah. When you walk in, that's your big question. Right. That's an unfortunate thing to grow up with. I always say it's like fallout. Yeah. You know? Of course. Like shrapnel. Yeah. When you walk in. That's your big question. Right. That's an unfortunate thing to grow up with.

I always say it's like fallout. Yeah. You know? Of course. Like shrapnel. Yeah, it is. It's like shrapnel. What is that?

Ask me. Ask me, Louie. Louie, you're the laziest human being in the world. Right? Yeah. And I go, well, thank you, Father. He goes, it's not a compliment. That's how he was made to come back. And then my mom would chime in, well, you, thank you, Father. He goes, it's not a compliment. That's how I was made to come back.

And then my mom would chime in, well, you did say world, Andy. And if he was, wouldn't that be something? She had it all worked out. My mom was the loveliest. You would have loved my mom, honestly. You would have loved her, yeah. She's every good part of me. Every good part of me is my mom.

That's sweet. But right, so what do you mean you quit going out after he went to 1AAB? Yeah, and so he kind of threw a bucket of water on all that. Yeah, but you could have kept- We didn't know. We didn't have any self-worth. He owned all of us. He owned all of us.

Right. You know? But I wish my mom would have kept going. I think it could have changed her, and maybe she could have left. Or at least had a little more boundaries for herself. But what are you going to do? But, you know, and then people who quit drinking find ways to be meaner in some other kind of side.

If they don't do the other work. If they're dry drunks. I'm a little dry myself. Are you? These days, yeah. Yeah, you haven't been going to meetings? No. I'm going to a myself are you? these days yeah you haven't been going to meetings? no I'm going to a meeting tonight

because I said damn it get to the meeting then I looked at where it was and I went you're still going because you know the traffic here

is almost unbearable I don't know how people even go out of their house if I had a job I'd just quit it I wouldn't drive every day like that it's the worst

I wouldn't be able to do it. It's just fucking horrible. There's no rhyme or reason to it. It's every day, all day long. Let's go back to when they were odd and even days. You're right. I like to go out late at night. I like when I drive home from the comedy store at midnight on a Tuesday.

I'm like, this is how it's supposed to be. This is how it was when you moved here. Yeah, you can just drive. You remember in the 80s when it was really not too bad. Not too bad. Now, when I come here, I just go, how did they do it? I don't know what the hell's going on because it's not going to get any better. And you can't get mad at anyone really about it because you're all in the same boat.

Yeah, it's despair because how does it change? It doesn't change. And that's when you might yell at your mother if you had to be in the car with her while she was going on those type my mom would go well look at this now what kind of car is that louis oh god why aren't you angry yeah yeah my mom was just here i i gotta read how you handled it oh i i don't get i don't get along with her as good as i want to why don't you become friends with her and stop thinking of her as your mother? That was always the problem. Yes.

You never thought of her as your mother? Who are you? Just some lady I grew up with. Listen, can I tell you how valuable it would be? You got to just start hanging out with her. You got to bite the bullet. Listen, she put up with you all those years. Kind of.

As a young boy, though, didn't she? Yeah. I think she... Yeah, I mean... listen she put up with you all those years kind of what is a young boy though didn't she yeah yeah when you see i think she yeah i mean i well why don't you have those conversations because you know but you got to put out and take go to the dinner and sit through it and you've got a like god she's she knows everything about you and she knows everything you you need to know everything about her i'm trying so you can get i'm not telling you what to do. No, but she came over, because I got the new house and it's got a guest room.

I thought, this will be good. It's grown up, someplace for my mother to stay. Oh, I can't wait for the complaint she made. No, she didn't. No, she was very, she's so scared of me

that she just walks on eggshells. So, but she came out and I'm like, there's the room, it's nice. And after, I immediately got physically ill when she got here. Oh. I was like, oh, I'm sick. so but she came out and like you know i'm like there's the room it's nice and after like i immediately got physically ill when she got here oh i was like oh i'm sick and then after two days

like i was just sort of like what now i'm never gonna get her to stay at a hotel again but where does she live florida oh well yeah she probably doesn't even want to she must have had fun though no it was fun yeah i just like it i guess it's just hard because uh it's not that we weren't close but i don't quite know how to be around her for more than a day because you are selfish and you what does she like to do you find out what she likes to do and go do it i bought her a purse that's nice yeah yeah we went shopping we went to see art there you go yeah we Yeah, we did stuff. You did stuff. Yeah. What is her hang around thing in Florida?

I don't know. Does she play cards at all? Does she do any kind of thing? She likes to walk her dogs and she does her exercises. She goes to the Pilates and they go sit at the pool sometimes. Maybe they play cards. I don't know. Maybe that's a secret.

That sounds like you were nice to her and you were just hard on yourself. Well, that's a, yeah, I was, I was sad that I got ill. Like she literally, and I don't think it was her fault, but she got here the day after I'm sick. Yeah. Oh, physically. Yeah. And I felt bad.

Oh, but then I take care of you. Oh no. That's her thing. She's like, I don't, I'm not that Florence Nightingale things. Not for me. Did she say that? She said it all my life. Oh, you have to talk to her about that.

Oh, yeah? Why not? Like, what isn't the right thing to say? Go, Mom, what does that mean? That means I never took care of you. You should say, that really screwed me up. She does. She does.

I've done it from the stage. I've done it on the podcast. All she says now is she's like, I'm sorry. I know, but what? She's gotten better. Oh, good. Because maybe she was trying to make you stronger. I think she just didn't know how to really do it.

Maybe no one, you know, did you ever ask her how it was for her? Yeah, yeah. I talk about that. And so that must have been hard. Yeah. I think with my parents' generation, they didn't know how to be parents. It didn't come natural. Listen, because it was, I don't think it yeah they knew because they were

raised by people who just yeah kind of pushed them out in the yard and said get get the lawn done right right you know back in those days yours you had a bunch of chore my dad talked about it like he had built the house himself you know i don't know if you know this, Louie, but not everybody has wooden floors. And I go, what? I didn't know where he was going. Dirt. That's what I'm talking about. Dirt.

And for a floor. You're complaining. Dirt. Dirt. We had a dirt floor. And I just thought he was so funny. I didn't know he was so funny. I thought he was kidding.

He goes, no, it was dirt, Louie. A friend of mine had a sod roof. I just laugh at that stuff. But he was serious. This has been such a good thing for me, this book. This book and the baskets. I wrote all the stuff. I wrote all the stuff.

Did you get emotional? you should hear the audio i cry through the whole thing i cry a lot in it yeah because i said what am i gonna do not cry i mean you can still hear it but you can understand it but i i i cry more yeah me i cry more too yeah it's good for us you know if we don't cry well i'll eat yeah and i'll be mean yeah it's better for me to get that you know it's lost that we're dealing with yeah you know we're really what do we lose what are we grieving the lack of a good childhood yeah for you know your mom didn't take care of you how about that yeah yeah my dad didn't ever i don't remember him saying i really love you i'm really proud of you my mom you're all right kid you're all right you know you got a point louis it's too bad it's at the top of your head that's what he used to say my mom actually has gotten she does it now i'm proud of you i love you yeah we should be yeah

i did all right yeah you did all right i right. I heard you on a Bill Simmons podcast. You were just so good, and it was so interesting to hear what you did, how you did it, and what you did. I love listening to him. I think he's an innovator like you are. It was interesting. Is he as nice as I think he is? He's a very nice guy.

And he's a little snide, right? He's snide. I like his snideness. He's a real Boston guy. Yeah, he's snide. He's got a little snide. I like all of that group group i like all that group jimmy and yeah yeah all those uh those guys who you know kimmel's great would shave your head sure while you're sleeping you're sleeping sure yeah if you got drunk they'd write on your face they'd write on your face

and i which i would never do but would think it would be funny, but I would feel terrible forever. No, you'd be the guy going like, don't do it, don't, oh, you're doing it. All right, let me put the exclamation point. I'm just going to do a little. I put the exclamation point. How has it changed, like the show, are you doing dates?

Yeah. And has it changed the more people coming out or what? You can't tell. You know, I can't tell. I got my crowd. Yeah. But then I hear every show, we love you, Christine.

Oh, really? We love you, Christine. From Baskin? Yeah, they really love that character. Oh, yeah? They are in love with her. You know, they'll come and people will just hug me

sometimes in an airport and go, I just love Christine. And I go, oh. I'll tell her you said hi. But there's a lot of you in that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we're both a lot of our parents. Sure.

So what book did we have to choose from? We became them. We became them. I'm fighting it, though. You seem to have allowed it to happen. Yeah, I put the dress on and everything. I didn't know this character was going to turn into my mother, I'll be honest with you.

Yeah. That just happened. Yeah. Because I started saying to Jonathan Kreisel, a great director and a great friend, and really knows how to make stuff, you know, Portlandia, what a genius idea. Yeah.

I'd say to him, hey, do you mind if I try it like my mom? And he'd always go, yeah. And that was the right thing because I was just trying to find out who it was and kind of make myself disappear. And it was so much fun. First of all, I really appreciate what women must go through because, you know, do not we don't get all that get up and all that stuff you need to smell your clothes to make sure that they're

yeah you'll ask other people does this look all right yeah I do anyway I don't know yeah I have pictures for me in the 80s that look like I'm in a clown outfit because I because I thought that's a pretty color shirt. I have pictures of me on TV in a lot of different cloud outfits. Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? Why the fuck? What was I thinking? Can't someone mention anything? I had striped bell bottoms on once.

I looked like a Ferris wheel. You know? A carousel. That's what it looked like, a carousel going around. Just pictures and pictures. You know how lucky are we though, Mark? 80s, 90s, 2000s. Yeah.

You know, 2010s. Yeah. Come on, we... We're all right. We did, that's 40 years, right? Yeah. We're 40 years. I'm almost 40.

We're close. Yeah, I think so. This is my 40th year. Of stand-up? Yeah. Like, I think since the first... I started working in 88, 98, 2008, so almost 30 years. 30 years. 30 years stand-up? Yeah. I think since the first job, I started working in 88, 98, 2008, so almost 30 years. 30 years stand-up.

Yeah, yeah. Unbelievable. Wow. Unbelievable. It's crazy. Yeah. Do you remember how hard it was? Well, yeah.

I mean, I was kind of driven, though, and I had a little pocket full of fat jokes yeah and boy everybody loves yeah honey or something so i always got them with sure sure sure yeah you know and then evolved i always asked to be the mc because i knew i'd have i could use that time yeah to develop myself and no one wanted it. No one wants to be the MC. In Minneapolis? In Minneapolis. Nobody wants to be the MC.

I want to because I could try out stupid ideas or they'd come into my head. Do you remember Tom Arnold from a clip? Oh, yeah. I just worked with him a couple weeks ago. I did some benefit or something at the store and he was on before me just ringing his, you know.

Yeah. He's so great. He's such a study in everything, isn't he? I don't know what's going on, but he's trying, he basically did,

you know, like he truncated his one man show that basically ends with I think his dad dying of cancer or something. Yeah.

So he's doing a 12 minute set and he's like, he's got cancer in it at the end. And then I go up next and I'm like jesus christ did you say something yeah of course i did of course i did i said i'm gonna i'm gonna start with cancer and then with a i'm gonna be a baby yeah exactly i'm not florence nightingale i don't buy that crap huh Well, look, I'm excited for you.

I'm excited about the book. I'm glad you came by. You make me laugh. And this looks great. You know, it's always great to see you. And thank you for, I wanted to mention. Yes. When I did your podcast last, I had so many comments and people coming up to me about us talking about our dads and our experiences.

So thank you so much. It helps people. It helps. And it helps us. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I always love it.

Can I, can I, can you give me your mom's address and I'll send her the book? I got, they sent me five. Well, let me sign one for her. Okay. Is that okay? Yeah, I'll let you sign this one. Okay. All right. Thanks, Louie. the book. I got, they sent me five. Well, let me sign one for her. Okay. Is that okay? Yeah, I'll let you sign this one. Okay. All right, thanks, Louie.

All right, thank you, Mark. How can you not love Louie Anderson? He cracks me up. He cracks me, when he does his father, it kills me. It fucking kills me. I'm happy that he came by. That was fun. The new book, Hey Mom, Stories for My Mother,

but you can read them too. You can get them now. You can see them on baskets. If you get an opportunity to see him do stand-up, do that because he's one of the best. He's a great act, that Louie Anderson. But the way he could just riff as his dad just fucking kills me. Fucking kills me.

So, Aisha Tyler, I don't think, I think this is, it is, it's the first long form that I've done with her in the garage. We did a live one, but that seemed fairly informative, as I recall, but it was nice to see her because she seems to be going through a bit of a life change, which is a nice way of saying crisis. It's code. It's sort of like unprecedented. Unprecedented means fucked up.

Change, I think a lot of times, means crisis. But it's still change. And you get through the crisis and you're happy it changed. You dig? Right? Okay. So Aisha has just made her directorial debut, Axis. It's a film.

It's available now on digital download and on-demand provider. She's also back on the new season of Archer starting Wednesday, April 25th on FXX. This is me and Aisha in the garage at the new place. So where did you come in from? Where do you? I live in LA last few weeks. Oh, so not far. No, not far at all.

And why couldn't you come yesterday? Because I was at Criminal Minds, and they told me my call was going to be at 2.30 in the afternoon. It's the worst, right? But then it was at 10 o'clock in the morning. And then you went there and you sat around for three hours? You know, the one thing I will say about that show is it's a rapid show. So they just misestimated how quickly they were going to finish earlier in the week.

And they just rolled back the call time much, much earlier then. I know what that feels like. Yeah. That show, they've got it so down. They have it down. Oh, yeah. We don't wait. We don't wait at all.

They're actually very effective. They thought they'd be behind and they were ahead. What's the angle on that one? That's one of the DNA ones? That's, no, that is a profiling one. That is, oh, we're looking for a physically fit adult male. Oh, right. You know, his mother abused him when he was a child. And then you cut to talking to people that know, might know him. Sorry. him um sorry no more no more evidence-based and we don't do a lot of it's interesting we rarely interview friends and family of this of the unsub because we don't know who the unsub is this is a

guy we don't know okay so we're just trying to draw a sketch of this guy like a psychological sketch of this guy uh so we talk to the victims right and we look at the evidence and the evidence tells us who the guy is and then you look at each other going and then we do that we do a lot of a lot of knowing looks right before we cut to commercial absolutely but you've been doing that show forever right just three the show's been on for 13 years but i've been there for three three's a long time does it have any like does does doing that kind of show have any impact on the way you think in real life or do anything or that's a really interesting question i mean like i just would wonder because some people find those kind of shows so fascinating and they're very popular all those uh criminal mind or criminal shows yeah

because there's some sort of you're you're solving something yes but like when you do a show it's just bits and pieces and you show up for your scene yeah exactly but i wonder like a global take on how to profile you don't know how to do it criminal like if you if you couldn't get a job in the real uh justice? No, maybe not. I could probably stand around outside welcoming people like a cop. They have the equivalent of a Walmart greeter. That's what you should do. You should do a movie where you're actually the real Aisha.

Aisha Tyler is stuck in a situation where you're like, wait, I'm on a show where we do this. Why am I doing this now? I can solve this. This is ridiculous. I can solve this. I do think this i do think that um doing this show like i play a psychologist on the show and i am curious about psychiatry and psychology are you yeah like really curious about it so so maybe like have you

ever gone to one i have yes i do go to therapy now which is not not not a big black thing by the way not a big thing with my people but why is that do you think um i just think like for a long time it felt like a luxury of the wealthy like if you had the if you had the luxury of sitting around like gazing at your navel and contemplating you know your inner makeup that was something that you did because you had you know time and leisure and money exactly but isn't black people just trying to like get you know like feed their families do you don't think it's sort of like keep it in the family why are you telling a stranger there might be some of that but i think it's all bound up in the luxury of class do you know what i mean like you're in a class where you have the time like you know black people have problems

sure but you know you but you you have like real present threats outside someone's trying to kill you yeah so you don't want to think about your more like subtle psychological threats luxury problem exactly so when did you start going black people could use therapy we could all use we're So you don't want to think about your more subtle psychological threats. Luxury problem. So when did you start going? But black people could use therapy. We could all use. We're all suffering from PTSD. We could use a lot of therapy.

I think a lot of people can use therapy, but I think that the industry of therapy doesn't always do itself. Like there's no, you really got to find somebody who's going to fit whatever that, and you got to want to unfuck yourself. Right. got to find somebody who's going to fit whatever that and you got to want to unfuck yourself right so and and i want you to continue that exact thing but i just thought of something else which is that there is historically although you know i'm i'm i'm i grew up poor but with a bourgeois attitude because my parents were both artists so we don't have any money you know but my parents you know were more thoughtful kind of book driven people work at working class family but you know with

like analysis wasn't a strange no although i don't think they ever went to therapy intellectually you knew like who freud was and yeah and i studied i studied all the psychological uh like you know schools when i was in high school i mean i was i was a really bookish kid yeah but i also think that historically black people have are very suspicious of the medical profession generally so when you were saying like you've got to find the right therapist, like the idea that you like shop doctors until you find someone who fits, who you jibe with. Like,

again, that's just like a foreign construct. And also like, I think a lot of times people who are in, in, uh, have that class compromise, whether they're black or white or whatever,

most of the time, the time, the only time they encounter therapists might be social workers. Or you're crazy. Yeah. You know, I mean, and that's probably working class people generally as well. I mean, like the old thing on The Sopranos was like, he's going to a psychologist. Is he crazy?

Yeah. Yeah. What are you telling him? Yeah. Yeah. Well, don't tell your secrets. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah... I'm a little bit of the other people that I'm a little bit of the other people that I'm a you know what i mean like what you have what's what what grand problem are you trying to solve yeah it makes you suspect yes exactly like yeah are you mentally ill yeah are you sick right whereas therapy can i trust you yeah i can't trust you clearly even hiding the fact that you're mentally ill nut job and when it comes right down to it all we're really talking about is like i don't know why i'm uncomfortable in my body yeah exactly or you know i i keep feeling like i set these goals for myself and then I don't do anything to move towards them.

Why do they all leave me? Yeah, exactly. Or my big one was, without getting too deep into the weeds, was I don't recognize my behavior anymore. Like, I think I knew myself and now I'm doing stuff that doesn't feel familiar to me. And I don't mean I'm choosing to jump out of a plane. I mean, like, I'm reacting in a way that feels self-injurious, which is not my nature. Why am I doing this?

It's finally happening. Yeah. Finally. It was going to happen eventually. It took me a while to get there, but I just started breaking shit. I wanted to know why I was breaking shit, you know?

Oh, I see that. Yeah, it's interesting, though. Losing control, finally. Oh, finally. It took me 40-something years to finally unravel. You run a tight ship. I did.

I was straight and narrow. I was all right angles my whole life and all of a sudden stuff started leaking out the corners so what are you gonna do but it was interesting it was i mean once i stopped freaking out about it about it freaking out and freaking out about it and self what uh so and like self injuring and self medicating and all the stuff that people do really uh yeah i mean not at not on any extreme level but i just think you know look people use alcohol because it's very effective it works yeah for centuries yeah yeah you know it works very efficient delivers it delivers alcohol doesn't work just didn't do it properly just try hard enough or they did it way too properly yeah there is there's a middle

there's a middle ground there where booze works really well functioning alcohol yeah exactly and then i just felt like um you know like this isn't really me and and i need to figure out what's going on under here and and therapy's amazing yeah i love it i mean i love it i i i but i you know if you're willing you know like it's uncomfortable sure but you got to be like willing to show up for it and do the work if you're just using it to rationalize yes yes or get or get some kind of weird like support or or yeah yeah exactly from your therapist oh yeah i'm fucked up right okay great i'm just gonna keep doing the bullshit i was doing before that's right so you so you've had some success with it yes i i i love it is this what attracted you to the story of this movie uh maybe yes because access yes yes

because i do think that it's your first director my first feature yeah right and it's you know it's about a guy that hits the wall with all this shit right who's who's an addict and and an actor and an actor and uh and you know what you know the theme that i liked the most about this movie the two themes the one was loneliness. I mean, this is a guy who's profoundly lonely in a life, in a town that looks to be exciting and engaging and everybody's got a million friends and they're always at parties. And I find that this place can be wildly isolating. You can feel totally- We're talking real life now?

Real life, yeah. LA? LA. That's terrible. Yeah, it's a really isolating place, but it looks- You better like your house. You better like your fucking house, or you better love a happy hour. Yeah.

You know, and I liked that this was a guy who looks like he's got a great career, and he's got money, and he's got a relationship, but he can't- That doesn't sound familiar at all. No? No? He hit that sweet spot, and- It doesn't sound like you at all. We're not shrinking me here. And he just feels like just really profoundly alone, you know, and and I, you know, without giving it away.

I mean, this is a guy who, you know, he was young. He came to Hollywood at a lot of success. He made a lot of money and he just used all of that success to just destroy himself and his relationships and he's really trying very hard now to be a better version of himself which i think is the other thing i related to is like try like you're not a bad person but you've done some bad shit and you're trying to just be better just try to be not be perfect but the bad shit is not so uh it's not unforgivable. And it's not unforgivable. No, he hasn't murdered anybody. But he hasn't cared for other people and he hasn't cared for himself.

You know what I mean? And I think we can feel like the things that we've done are unforgivable. And how did you find this script? What was the process of you making your first movie here? Oh, God. Because when I talk to people about making films or about championing films or sort of ushering them through the process, it could take years. And I'm like, it's not going to happen for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's not a quick enough delivery. I need answers. But also sort of like maybe it'll get into festivals. Right, maybe it won't. The whole life of it, at turn you know it's you could just end up with this thing that you know you have in your house yes an albatross spent you spent a decade working yeah exactly like an unfinished painting that no one will ever see or even if it's finished yeah still no one's gonna see it no one's ever gonna see it um so like reverse

engineering that question the thing i will say is you just have to you have to just just kind of, like, I didn't think anybody was going to see this movie. Like, I think I went in thinking that. Was it just looking at his practice or something? Yeah, not even like in a pie in the sky way. I just was like, I'm going to make a movie to show people that I can make a movie. Okay. So that I can use it. It's a resume piece.

Yeah, it's a resume piece that I can use it to set up the next movie. And also as an exercise for me creatively. And because of that, it's a very strange kind of surrealist experimental film. I didn't make a commercial movie. Right. And I didn't have to make a commercial movie because- Don't want to prove that you can do that. No, no.

And I don't care. But I'm sure people are going to be like, oh, this is kind of weird. But I also think baby directors really want to show everybody that they can make the next like Fast and Furious, you know, the more furious or in the fastest. We wanted to have some pacing. Yeah. I just wanted to make a piece of art. Yeah.

And because I could, because it was a tiny little movie, that's what I did. Uh-huh. How'd you meet the screen or how'd you get the script? So I, it's talking about that murky period, that murky therapeutic period that I was going through. So wait, now what are you sober? Is that what you're saying? I'm not sober. No, I love booze.

I still love booze. No, it's just that I went through a period where like my life felt like a burden to me. Like things that I had that I'd always wanted started to feel like a burden. Like my house felt like a burden. I sold it. I don't own a home anymore.

You married? Not married anymore. Is this all around the same time? It all kind of happened around the same time. Yeah. And I got rid of about like 70% of my belongings. I just wanted, I didn't want any stuff, you know? Did this all happen like-

It was over time. It was over a period of time. You got rid of the house. I got rid of the house. I got rid of the house. The husband's gone. I got a divorce. And then I moved into a place that was maybe a quarter the size of my house, and I got rid of all my shit.

So like a cat. You're just in a smaller place. It feels comfortable. You see- Yeah, I can see all my shit. It's around me. I can see it all. And I don't feel like I need to work to support my lifestyle you know that's good like

oh yeah so you can stop chasing your ass just to keep getting yeah and i can just make interesting stuff uh i quit one of my jobs you know i i was on i was on a a very successful daytime talk show for six years i had left that at the yeah left the talk at the end of my contract did that on on your choice yeah yeah those are big, big things. Big things. Big changes. I like change. I like dynamism.

But it sounds like it wasn't just about you. You felt like it was expanding too much. Like, you know, like your life got too big in a way. Yeah. And my energy was going into things that I was putting my energy into things I didn want to put my energy into and not that that's not a statement about my marriage but but the other thing i wanted to make art but um i couldn't because my energy was going out to like pay bills and keep a big house and and also doing a lot of mainstream stuff that didn't feel like radical to me but making but you were making good living money and money is nice but it's not i i it's not the most it's a big change yeah it was big it was like a big big i'm a different person now that's crazy

which i which is really interesting you know like and i guess also are you freaking out yeah i freak out sometimes yeah but um but the freaking out is interesting too well good no i'm happy for you you know what i mean you finally let go i just remember one thing something i mean i just yeah but i was gripping shit pretty tightly god mark you've known me a long time go fuck yourself um like you know like a part of it is like you know you just start to think like is the rest of my life just going to be driving in a nice car to a nice job where someone makes me eggs and then i go out and i do this nice job and then i get back in my car there's a lot of people right now that i know everybody out there's rolling their eyes yes i'm a dick i agree with you poor girl i agree but like how can you do anything look how can you do anything

interesting if you're not having interesting experiences i look i agree with you and in you know no matter you no matter how big your life gets it does it is small like whatever people think it is you're still just managing that life you're going to the same two places like there's no time you know i don't even know now like i don't like my life i i never really was the nice car people making eggs for me guy right right but but i do realize that no matter where you live your life gets small unless you make choices to go engage in right stuff right, right, right. And that's our nature, I think, to make things small and comfortable. Yeah, controlled.

Yeah, I think that some people- And familiar, right? Familiarity and pattern is like that. Well, some people are adventurous, but those of us who grew up in chaos or emotional instability, it's nice to like, I got a place, I go to my place

and then I go to my other place. Yeah, those are my places. I know those, I understand those places. Right, right. And I feel like it was this period of turmoil that was very, like, you know, there was a lot of fear in there. But even the fear was interesting to me as well because I just felt like, do I get to move through my whole life, like, not being afraid? And, like, you know, I'm like, I feel like. Or pretending being afraid and not like you know I'm like I feel like pretending like you're pretending like I'm like yeah like avoiding fear right and then by

avoiding fear and avoiding discomfort yeah I'm not growing at all I'm not growing in any way so yeah so like you really needed guidance through this and the therapy the therapy was there to help me figure out like the feelings that were kind of sure so you didn't completely lose yeah and then she was like okay so you're afraid so what are you afraid i was like oh these things i was like but that's not necessarily a reason not to do a or b right um as long as i know that i'm going into it and the fear is just a natural aspect of being human because i mean we're terrified all the time yeah even more now yeah more as you get older i'm running out of time more in this political more in this political climate more in this world although i keep reminding myself that people have

survived through much more dangerous and frightening times than this one. It's not that this couldn't get more frightening. Give them time, yeah. You know what I mean? I can drive my nice car around LA and I'm not afraid someone's going to turn a fire hose on me. Right. You know what I mean? And I can speak out online and I don't think anyone's going to come take my shit.

Right, yeah. So then it's a responsibility to do those things, to speak out and to observe and to point out that this is an irrational time and we should be careful. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And be, you know, a little, get each other's backs. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Support each other and not let anybody get away with anything because people are trying to run a fucking shell game right now. And they are. I mean, they are. I mean, we're freaking out. Right out and open. Right out and open.

Yeah. We're freaking out and we should freak out and we're freaking about about stuff that is dangerous and scary but at the same time they are just slowly pulling the rug out from under us as we're freaking out about this scandal and this thing and the fact that we have a men trained candidate in office he's still doing what he was put there to do which is to dismantle all of these you know well to get rid of the government get rid of the government dismantle the government the republicans have been wanting to do that for decades yeah yeah and they're doing it but all right but back to you because i don't think we're going to solve the that we can't no no no so you when you took on this project the movie you you

like what did the screen did you know the guy who wrote it so it's so i what happened was um talking about like risks and everything like that um i was uh this is this is so inside baseball sorry human beings no people are used to it here okay good so um i was at comic-con yeah i got asked people know about comic-con great okay good people know about people heard yeah was that this thing uh i don't know if you guys heard um uh and i was asked to moderate a panel for the show penny Dreadful, which I was a huge fan of. I've been tweeting about it. So they knew I was a fan.

They said, do you want to come moderate this? I did. I love that show. I still love that show. It's incredibly elegant meditation on kind of the nature of the human soul. It's really about our cruelty and our self-hate. It's beautiful. It's a brilliant show.

I went and I moderated it. And John Logan, who created it, is an incredible screenwriter and playwright, wrote Skyfall and a bunch of other amazing things, was like, hey, why don't you come visit the show? You love the show. Why don't you come hang out and visit the set? And they shot in Ireland. And I was like- Have you ever been there before?

I had never been there before. And now I have many, many times, but I hadn't at the time. And I was like, man, I need to be doing more radical shit with my life, man. I'm not going to be an artist if I don't do radical shit. Yeah. So I was like, I'm going to go to Ireland by myself shit with my life, man. I'm not going to be an artist if I don't like do radical shit. Yeah. So I was like, I'm going to go to Ireland by myself. I'm going to go. I've never I'd never done that before.

And I went, I visited him and I ended up asking to visit another show because I was I wanted to direct. Yeah. Shadowed on a show called Vikings. Another show that I really loved. And I just like hung out in Dublin and at these two studios, like watching people make TV and asking questions and learning about directing. It's nice that you went to,

like Ireland's a very comfortable place. It's a beautiful place. The people are pretty genuine. They're very friendly. Yeah, and I love it. And I haven't spent enough time there, but it's like you were able to just go, you know, get schooled without being out in the open here.

Yeah, exactly. Exposed here. Or be hanging around a friend's set. Right, right. Like down in culver city or something exactly and and they and it is it's like a different kind of television culture they were very welcoming so i just i mean i had the best time i just like you know read every day and drank a drank a couple pints of guinness and i just had to tell them where to do and

walked around set i helped hand out sandwiches and i got to not be the actor i just got to be like a visitor yeah and in ireland they don't really care about famous people so you know like no one bothers you no one cares no one cares what you do for a living like my job is just as interesting as yours they're excited to see if they recognize you but they're not they don't do the thing you know um and I met a friend of mine who's an actor he's Irish he wasn't he's like my brother is in Ireland he'll take you around and I met all these other actors and I met the guy who wrote this movie. He and I ended up doing a short film together with a third actor who's also a composer called Erskine Lekela, that was the Gaelic name, that I shot in Galway, Ireland, at the end

of 2014. How was that? Beautiful? Beautiful. I want to go up there to Galway. Beautiful. I'm going to be performing in Dublin next month, and we're going to spend a few days. It's just a couple hours of train ride.

I always think, it's from Dublin? Yeah. It's only a train ride? Yeah, the whole, you know, across the whole country driving in three hours. But you can just take the train? Just take the's just a couple hours of train ride. I always think, it's from Dublin? Yeah. It's only a train ride? Yeah, you can go across the whole country driving in three hours. But you can just

take the train? Just take the train. Oh, okay. It's beautiful. All right, good. You should do it.

That's the plan. It's an easy, fun place to travel around in. And we did the short film together. It was just a great experience. And then he was like, I've got this feature script. And I remember thinking like,

oh, I'm going to hate this script. And then like, this is going to be in our French. What is this guy? Yeah, right, right. He's going to have to read to read it is that the worst thing about this business is like friendships can end just when you get a text can you read something i'm sorry new phone who dis you know i mean so uh and i just and i and i

i had my own ideas about the movie that i wanted to make first you know what i mean i had things in my head before meeting him before meeting the type of movie yeah about the movie that I wanted to make first. You know what I mean? I had things in my head. Before meeting him. Before meeting him. The type of movie. Yeah, the type of movie I wanted to make. And then it just was like a perfect first feature because it was contained. They always tell you make your first film.

Don't be too ambitious. That's why a lot of first films are like a family comedy in a house or whatever. You know what I mean? But it was contained and it was streamlined but it also was really strange and i thought great this will be a first film that i i know i can make but that is is unusual enough to make a little noise right you know what i mean sure a black woman directing a movie about an expatriate irish drug addict living in los angeles told in real time in a car driving through la at rush hour just felt like different

you know what I mean like a different choice yeah and I also thought this is gonna be hard because like how am I gonna make this movie interesting

how do I make a movie about a guy in a car on the phone interesting and where are you gonna shoot which street are you gonna block

exactly how are we gonna get permits for this shit and how's it gonna work when I watched did you watch La La Land I did

that scene on the highway where you know that part of the highway yeah I got pissed about not like the highway where you know that part of the highway and you're like, what the fuck? I got pissed about the idea of being in the traffic. The hubris of it.

How do you even think that you can do this, you assholes? I felt like watching it, I felt like I was in a car stuck wondering what was going on up there. Who are you going to murder first? And every time I go over that overpass, I feel that same rage even now. That's what we got from the musical. Yeah, exactly. I didn't take away anything else Like, just who are you going to murder first? And every time I go over that overpass, I feel that same rage even now. Even now.

Just the hubris. That's what we got from the musical. Yeah, exactly. I didn't take away anything else than the guys that made this movie are jackass. Yeah, yeah. Totally. Well, where'd you shoot it? So we shot it.

It's interesting when you do this, when you start to figure out, like when you start to unpack these problems. Well, that's the job of the director. And it was a blast. Like, it was a fun math problem to solve. And the and my producers right we um first of all the movie was written at night uh and he was originally driving from like um mulholland to the beach and i immediately changed it today yeah because i thought um look you've got this one small set that's a guy in a car but if i make it during the day then i'll have a secondary larger beautiful changing dynamic set which is la and la can really be a character in the movie sure so then i wanted to get as much la in the movies i could and i wanted to show parts of la

we don't typically see in movies so it starts in um it starts downtown in elysian park people know that as the area above dodger stadium and then he drives to essentially kind of like the beginning of malibu uh so we took we couldn't drive through Beverly Hills. We couldn't afford a Beverly Hills permit. You have to get a permit from every kind of town inside LA. Yeah. So we end up going along Wilshire. And then when we get to the edge of Beverly Hills, we have to cut south.

So we go down to Pico. And we take Pico. And then after we pass Beverly Hills, we cut back up into LA. And then we took LA along Sunset. Well, you just had escorts. So you didn't have to block the whole street. So we had a process trailer. The car's on a process trailer.

So the actor didn't have to concentrate on driving. He would clearly have killed himself if he had to do both. Yeah. The tricky thing about the process trailer is to make sure you look like you're driving. That you're driving. So we got this ultra low process trailer that was so low to the ground that at one point we pulled out for lunch and it took us like 45 minutes to get back out of the parking lot.

I was like. Oh, yeah. Oh, really? really yeah all the magic of movie making you guys but um we had caught we had police a police escort every day uh and to do to accomplish all these of these things yeah cameras mounted on the car cameras mounted on the trailer because the trailer itself was you know a big truck and then it's got like kind of a little flatbed that the car drives onto so we had and we shot the movie in seven days wow so um the actor had to do 65 pages of material a day then we would change the camera positions the next day he would do the same 65 pages and we moved all the way around him by the end of the movie he was he'd done the whole that was covered you'd shoot the

whole movie every day the whole movie every day and then yeah and then we would change angles so it was a lot of work for him and a lot of work for us, but it was really exhilarating because by like day three, we had the whole movie in the can. And you knew it. And then, yeah, and so then we could play. Right. And we'd be like, okay, let's make more radical choices.

And we were also those pricks who caused a lot of traffic. At one point, we had to pull over because we had caused like a mile of traffic behind us. But, you know, I was making fucking art, man, so live through it. Sure, man. At one point, we had to pull over because we had caused like a mile, a mile of traffic behind us. Yeah. But, you know, I was making fucking art, man, so live through it. Sure, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also, we're on Surface Street, so they could go around us if they wanted to. Sure, exactly. And this thing's gonna be available now to watch? April 10th on everything.

That's good. So just, you said something about people not making it. Yeah, not making, I made this movie, I thought it would be on my Vimeo page. I mean, I wanted it to come out, but I didn't, there's a lot of movies out there and it's, the lead's not a name and he's the only guy on camera. I submitted it to some festivals.

I didn't get into the big ones. Right. My feelings were hurt. I didn't get into Sundance and Tribeca. But I ended up, I remember I didn't get into Sundance and you know sure and uh and try back but i ended up i remember i didn't get into sundance and i was like oh and then three days later i got a call from four festivals in a row that my movie had gotten into and it ended up going to eight festivals yeah winning two awards oh great and then uh and then this is for people who care about filmmaking i had this tiny movie and i had a distributor who was going to try to sell it.

And they were like, look, we're not having a lot of luck selling it overseas because it hasn't had a theater run. And I was like, great, well, let's get a theater run. They're like, your movie's never going to get a theater run.

It's too small. Nobody knows who that guy is. It's hard to get a theater run. Yeah, it is. And I was like, okay. And then I was like, I wanted to submit it to some award shows.

Yeah. And you can't do that without a theater run. So I just called. Like you just got to get a weekend. Yeah, just a weekend. So I just called some theaters and I said, hey, if you run my movie, I'll like promote it

and I'll come down and do some Q&As. And I got a theater run my fucking self. Yeah. So it ran for a week at the Arclight here and it ran for a week at the Landmark in New York, which are two like very nice, fancy theaters. Yeah. And it just showed you,

if you make an interesting film, you can do a lot more than you think you can do with this movie if you just kind of put energy behind it. Sure. And then it got that theater run. I parted ways with that distributor because I didn't feel like they believed in the film. I got another distributor

who really did believe in the film. And now it's not just going to be on iTunes. It's going to be on like Amazon, Vudu, Fandango, On Demand, on your TV. Just dial it in on your cable service provider. And that came through this distributor? Through another distributor who just got the movie. Netflix? No, not Netflix because Netflix just pays you

once. That's a separate deal. I know, I know. There's no residual. There's no upside for your movie. On Netflix? Yeah, I mean- Unless they get behind it, unless they make it.

Unless they make it, yeah. But if they buy it, and it's a great platform, and I love Netflix, but buy my next movie. Sure, but it could get lost. Make my next movie, please, Netflix. Have you asked them?

No, I haven't met with them yet. And I love Netflix, but if you've made a movie, they buy it for a flat fee, and then if it's a success, you don't see any more of, you know, you don't see that success. You don't get to participate in that success right i get you um but it's i mean you know like my mom's gonna get to watch it on her television you know i mean

i don't know like money's great yeah but i care more about like a vigorous creative life no i mean no i get you i you know, I definitely understand because... Maybe I can say that because I had a couple TV shows and I'm not poor anymore, but I don't think that when I was poor I didn't care about it.

But I think it's interesting that, you know, this is the direction, you know, you go in. You know what I mean? Like, you know, because you're still acting

and stuff, but you've done... You know, hosting's a weird thing because it can be a very robotic position. Yes, yes. It can feel very repetitious. weird thing because it's a it's it can be a very robotic position yes yes it can feel very repetitious yeah and it's a job that you know somebody with your training and stand up and you know showing but like hosting in and of itself if you're not careful

you know it is a prison yeah yeah yeah yeah you know i mean because look it's also it's it's interesting you get to meet fun people but it's and i lucky. I was on a show where my opinion did count. I mean, we spent a big part of the show talking about opinions. Yeah, right, right. But a lot of times if you're being a host, it's really just about making sure that the person sitting across from you wins. Sure. And also, but even like the soup and other stuff where you're just kind of there on the

set. Yeah, exactly. You know, kind of just teeing stuff up and then knocking it down. And the other thing about, because you're a comic as well, and there's, you know, obviously you're like, I've always known that you work hard and you're compulsive and you're doing a million things but but a lot of that serves that in hosting too is like you can just show up and riff oh yeah like on the talk like it's like what's the what's the job really like i'm quick on my feet oh no i just gotta and then you're in it yeah i mean not that they don't

work hard over there but yeah it wasn't like i stayed up all night like doing my homework sure you just come in and you fuck around and then you go in it yeah i mean not that they don't work hard over there but yeah it wasn't like i stayed up all night like doing my homework you just come in and you fuck around and then you go and that's different than acting right but i don't know what if you're uh like i don't know your process as an actor i mean do you do you do the memorization on set yeah you know it's interesting like i'm on a show with eight lead actors you get the hang of it yeah yeah yeah you know some if you have an episode that's about you then you really dig in but if you have an episode where you have to come in and say two lines about like, you know, what was the cause of death and let's go bust the guy. You know, you don't have to spend all weekend like figuring out your motivation for that, you know.

Right. Well, I think what's interesting, though, is because at this point in your life, you know, with all the shit that's going on that you just hinted at that I'm going to poke at you more for. Boy. That, well, it's just that, you know, you're not in the position where you're going to go hash that shit out on a comedy stage. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not. No. Which I think would be great.

I'm handicapped right now as a comic. I'm really hamstrung because a long time. Well, I took about I only intended to take a year off and it's been about five, which just, you know came from you know having to get up at five in the morning and then not wanting to be on stage at midnight you know i mean i just couldn't of course do both things not because i didn't love it and i do miss it but i you know look the thing that's great about comedy and the thing that transforms all of us as comedians is when you have real shit to work out on stage and like real shit happens

it sounds like you got some and i got some real shit to work out uh-huh but you chose a therapist i am doing it in therapy because you want to hide it from i want to keep my wounds my festering wounds from the general public yeah uh and and it'll you know it i will say this like i you know i loved being married i was married for 25 years to an extraordinary person who remains an extraordinary person. And the marriage didn't end because anybody was bad. But, and,

and because of that, I really feel very protective of that. A lot of times when people do, when a relationship ends is they dissect the relationship and they parse it out and they get down to the cells and they rip it apart and the other person apart. But I don't feel the need to do that because that's not how the relationship ended.

And in some ways I feel very protective of the relationship and of him and so i it ended okay it ended i mean it ended i love that guy i'm always gonna love him and i and i i wasn't like a scorched earth thing i was with him since i was a teenager do you know what i mean it was more than yeah 19 really yeah and so um know, like he was my best friend for more than half of my life. Where'd you meet that guy? In college. In college. No kidding?

It was my sophomore year of college. Yeah. Really? It's been that long? We've been together since my sophomore year, since I was a teenager, in my teens, 19. Wow. So, you know, so much of who I am as a person came out of, you know, growing up with that person in my life.

am as a person came out of you know growing up with that person in my life and i and i don't want to do the thing where i get on stage and and turn it into you know right well that's that's tricky or turn it or turn it into like uh like you know you have to have a point of view on it yeah and being diplomatic is not that funny no no it's not funny he's a great guy and a great guy thanks guy yeah no one wants to hear that shit either. You know, they want to. And I do think that there's something. But the other part of it is like, you know, and then I realized, like, what's wrong with me? That. There's the funny.

Oh, yeah, there is the funny. What is wrong with me? So many things. Right. You know what I mean? But what about what about the premise? And Mark, you talk a lot about relationships. You've had some relationships.

Yeah. But I've slowed down on that. Good. Because like you said said there are other people involved and when you're talking about them either on these mics or on the stand-up stage they don't have they don't have the rebuttal yeah they yeah they don't have the opportunity to kind of defend themselves yeah and also you're you're pulling you're making everything elastic because at the end you're trying to get a punch line out of it not in a crap so it's your side it's your side you're right you get a punchline out of it. Not in a crass way. Also, it's your side. It's your side. You're right.

Unless you really get fucked. Yeah, unless you got boned. Which I did. Yes. Once. But there is another side to that. Right, right. And we all feel boned at the end of a relationship. I know.

And then like after about a year or 10, you're like, that was kind of an asshole. I think I might have, wait, why is this on fire? Oh, I have a match on my hand. I didn't remember that part. But, you know, I do think there's something really interesting and meaningful about talking about a relationship on stage.

It's why people connect with that kind of stuff. I mean, like what Chris Rock is doing, talking about his marriage. It's interesting to us. It's interesting to him. I mean, you know, it's like, to me, I think comedy is more about telling the truth than it is about being funny. It always has been for me. It's like people don't remember the guy who was funny they remember the guy that said something real and until i can get up there and say something real i'm not gonna do it again right and i think well i think also that you know whatever you know chris is working

through and you know copping to one's own flaws character defects and you know uh emotional misdemeanors betrayals being fucking yeah fucking telling the truth right you know that's important for people to hear yeah it's because then they're sort of like all right if he i if he can do what i can do yeah or or you're not alone right you're not everybody can cop to not everybody can but you know maybe just see that you might have been a prick you Right. And then also, like, I think admitting that you were a prick is the start. And then the next step is like,

how do I not continue being a prick? Sure. And also, like, you and I, you know, I'm a little older than you, but, you know, we don't have kids. No.

And it doesn't look like it's going to happen. Nope. No, I know. That's not, it's not like I'm like, oh, it's not going to happen. I'm like, whoo! Right, you got out. Yeah, yeah. I dodged it's not it's not like i'm like oh it's not gonna happen i'm like right you got out yeah i dodged made it through the time i dodged my fertile years i dodged a bullet but but like for me like when people when i talk about it i don't have any real

shame in it but but i do wonder if there is some you know final phase of uh maturing that happens when you have childs and you have to be selfless that I'm probably going to miss out on. But no, wait, but like- I'm just, that was thinking. I'm ruminating while you speak. Oh, but my thing was, it's like, I never thought about it. Right, right.

Like it was never like sort of like, you know, like I gotta have a kid. Like it was never, I never thought about it. Maybe I'm selfish, maybe, you know, but- No, no, no, no, no, no. I, fuck everyone who says that you're selfish because you didn't have kids. No one tells me that.

Most people are like, it's probably better. Why are you making a human? Making a human being, wanting to make a human being that is in your own image, your own genetic material is in and of itself a selfish act. But it's also like- Selflessness is going and finding a baby that's already here and raising that baby. That's being selfless. Making a person is completely selfish.

But it's also just a biological imperative. Yes, but it's not like you're an angel because you made a person. Oh, no, of course not. That makes me nuts. No, I don't know that I took it that far. I think just people, I think that as animals or as,

I think people just expect that people have kids in some weird way. So you have kids? No, and then they're like, really? Yeah, especially at your age. I mean, they're like, expect that people have kids in some weird way. Right, right. So you have kids? No. And then they're like, really? Yeah, especially at your age. I mean, you don't have kids now because people do it. Look, some people like they're dying to have children and God bless you.

If that's what you want for yourself. Right, exactly. Then I think that's wonderful. Then there's the people in the middle who fell into it for whatever reason, laziness or ambivalence. Oops, guess we're doing this. Exactly. Or someone wanted it and someone else didn't.

And you know, whoops, you should have been paying more attention to whether i had a condom on or vice versa right and some people who just go well i guess this is what you do next because they don't really have any greater ambition for themselves i'm being a real asshole right now i'm just saying like if it's what you want for yourself great but it is a choice sure and i think people think it's a choice not to have kids and i'm saying no that the default state is not to create a person that you have to be emotionally responsible for for the rest of their lives. Yeah. And also you should know yourself well enough to be like, if you're deciding not to have kids, maybe that's a good decision. Exactly. Exactly. Like I didn't come from emotionally great stuff. You know, I'm a panicky, worrying,

aggravated, you know, occasionally impatient, self-centered person yeah it's like you know that that sounds like all great parenting stuff right that's perfect you'd be perfect to raise another and then people then there's this whole angle of like yeah but you get you know you're gonna love it you'll get used to it it's like you know i want to get used to something like i don't yeah and and also like you'll learn to love it or you're going to be great and i don't know if that's true when i look at my fucking upbringing just emotionally which wasn't abusive but it was a little negligent emotionally like i don't know if you can beat that i don't know if you can well you have here's the thing you have to want to beat it if if what i i know people have had like a like a like my people close to me they're they

had their grandparents were emotionally negligent and so their parents really chose i'm gonna have kids i'm gonna love the shit out of these kids yeah but if that if that's not swirling around yeah it did it did it absolutely worked like uh i have a friend whose grandfather uh was like never touched his kids never told them he loved him his son hogged his kids every day told them they loved him every day was wildly loving he reversed that pattern yeah and his kids you know felt that and saw it and knew it knew that he was really he wanted them to know that he loved them deeply and he she didn't say it he showed it he in his actions he really he really broke that pattern wow but you that good cognitive work yes he saw anyway you know he never went to therapy just saw what was wrong with his parental

relationship and he fixed it in his own life but he found it in himself he's capable of loving it and but he chose it every day i think you know he found it in himself. He's capable of loving. He was capable of it. But he chose it every day, I think. He had to choose it. He had to choose it every day. Right, right. But again- Sounds like a job. That's something you have to want for yourself.

If you were like, I'm going to fix what my parents did. I'm going to fix what my parents did. With spite. With cruelty. I'll show them. My brother kind of did that. Like, I'm going to reverse it. Yeah.

But you know, you have to want that. You just have to want it. And I just don't think people, I don't think people consider enough the responsibility of creating a human being. They just think about a baby. And also, but it's also, it's interesting just how,

like if they survive right the first five to ten years how resilient they really are i mean they really are they they do become separate individuals very quickly and somehow or another they they get through it if the basics are provided you give them some fundamentals you give them some fun you know and they do become their own people and then like when they get to be our age they start thinking about like what the fuck is wrong with me right Right, wait a minute. Oh God, why am I behaving like this? But what was for you,

like what was the moment where that told you that like, you know, I'm in trouble? With my like- Well, just this new thing where, you know, like where you made all these drastic moves and you were in therapy. What was the sort of like, uh-oh, I gotta- Yeah, God, that's a good question um uh sorry for the dead air because like i the the thing that the real thing that

how about the laugh that just stuffed all those emotions how about that push them down just push them back down um i i just had i had a couple of nights where I just drank too much. Alone? No, it's interesting. It's a really good question. Because, you know, you never think it's too much when you're alone. You never think it's too much when you're alone. You know what I mean?

When you're alone. When you're stumbling out of your living room. I'm not driving anywhere. Yeah, right. Because it was never like a dumpster fire. It was never like I didn't show up for work or I lost a job. It was just that my behavior became increasingly sprawling. Yeah.

And I'm a very regimented and driven person. And I was, I wanted to accomplish things that I wasn't accomplishing because I was just partying you know what I mean and and I guess that feels like pretty rote like pretty much like a like your first thing at AA but um people who listen to my podcast will remember I had stopped drinking for almost a year which was really interesting to me but then I got bored and so I started drinking again and bored that's funny because you like during that time you didn't take this any of these creative leaps. No, no, no. I was very bored.

I wasn't doing anything radical. Because you were just doing your job. Eating salad, going to work, eating salad, going to work. Right. But what happened was I would go out and drink. I'd be working. I'd be traveling for work. I can't imagine you getting sloppy in public.

I don't. It's not it. I'd like to see it once. It'd be fun. I'd be traveling for work. I can't imagine you getting sloppy in public. I don't. It's not it. I'd like to see it once. It'd be fun. It'll happen someday. I'll make sure to text you and be like, get down here. Mark, you've got 20 minutes to get here. I'm stumbling around.

Like I would travel for work. Yeah. And I'd be alone. Especially when you're a stand-up, you just get really accustomed to being alone. Sure. And I made peace with that. Like, I'm not one of these people.

I don't mind being in a fucking hotel. I love being alone, but I hate the thing where you get back after your show and you're like lying on this kind of like, you know, murder and semen stain bedspread

watching like Law & Order three in the morning. You know what I mean? I'm usually eating candy bars and jerking off. Yeah, you know, what's a good time?

That's like a seven-minute enterprise. You know what I mean? It's not going to take up the entire evening and then you're watching Law & Order. I would go, yeah, you know, what's a good time? But that's like a seven minute enterprise. You know what I mean? It's not going to take up the entire evening. And then you're watching Law and Order. I would go and get like these big cups of bar mix

like these, you know, from the bar. Oh, you're a savory person? I'm a savory person, not a sweet person. And then I would get, I'd go to a store, I'd buy like a shitty

bottle of Sauvignon Blanc and I'd just be like 3.30, which would be so sad. Just sitting there just watching Law and Order off my deal you can barbix off my chest and uh so i was like this is this isn't interesting to me so i'd start going out oh okay so you didn't think like this is the life no it wasn't that i go out by myself like i'm

not gonna i'm only got one i'm only in this planet one time like i can't spend a third of it in a shitty hotel room on my chest so i'd go out and i drink uh i'd go to bars and i meet people and i drink and i just started to feel uh like my like i was um like i was out at i was closing a bar two in the morning by myself yeah and that and that just didn't feel good either you know what i mean and it would be fun and it'd be funny and then it would be sad yeah so i stopped doing that all the all the uh passing friends people who recognized you the people you were talking to, they've all gone home. Yeah.

People like I love you on TalkSoup and then you're still sitting there chatting to the bartender. Yeah. It's funny. It's kind of funny. And then it's like a Ray LaMontagne. No, it's a little sad. You know, funny, a little sad. You know what i mean like and uh and i thought i'm trying to find excitement in the wrong ways

and in the wrong places when what i really want is more dynamism in my life overall and like sitting at a bar at two in the morning is not really truly dynamic because no art is coming out of it nothing interesting is coming out of it well yeah yeah other than maybe a sad story sad story but it's a story that's been told it's it's not i'm not i'm not i haven't put a spin on it right i mean yeah no it could have gotten worse yeah it could have gotten much worse it could have got much worse and i could see how that pattern could turn into something really destructive well that's the thing about people like you know who are fundamentally you know for me like when i was doing drugs there was like i had an agreement with myself you know like if i ever started to lose my mind right you know i would stop right and usually you don't know that and no no you're

in it how can you right but like you like i would imagine that you know you did have a line for yourself and and you know that you you know you didn't end up in you know compromising situations or something that would affect my personal safety, my physical safety. And your soul. And my soul. Because you're, I mean, you know, you're a pretty guarded person. You're hiding some little girl in there. Aren't we all?

I don't know if we all are. I know you are. She's in there. I, I, I, I, you know, being a comic, your nature is to be divulgent, right? Like that's who we are. We have to be like that. But also defensive. And also defensive.

And that we're like playing that line all the time. But I don't know. There's like a second thing, Mark, which is like the whole time you're getting high or whatever you're drinking, you keep seeing what you want for yourself. And it's right on the other side of this fog of self-medication and you but that's interesting because you're sitting with some bread with the husband with the house with gigs but you what are you seeing past that fog just a more radical artistic life alone uh and and and maybe and maybe it's hard to be more choices with with with all of

the choices with all of the choices so you so what you saw was like i gotta get rid of all of it i it wasn't it wasn't like i got up one morning it's like you know i have to burn this down it was that um right like you just start to feel trapped right yeah i gotta make my life smaller i gotta you know like yeah i i you know how can i have new ideas even with stand-up you know what i mean like how can i have new ideas if i'm doing the same shit well like how much i you know how can i have new ideas even with stand-up you know what i mean like how can i have new ideas if i'm doing the same shit well like how much do you track of this because like i remember when we talked it's weird because you know i was on your show but i remember you know you telling me you know about your family and that you know you come from divorce you you

know and there was you know all that so like in the, because I try to, I find that with a lot of my emotional problems and the repetitions and whatever situation, neither of my parents are alcoholics or anything, but I do understand how I came to me. I understand my emotional liabilities and where they come from. Right, right.

Are you able to track that? Are you doing that in like therapy? Like, you know, like you grew up what were your father my father yeah is he still around he's still my parents are both still around and despite the divorce became very friendly like they were able to resolve their issues pretty quickly at least in regards to the way they interacted with us. So I had all of my holidays with my parents, with my parents for all of my childhood. And, and now even like the, like I'll rent a house for Thanksgiving or Christmas and they all, everybody comes and they all stay in the same house together.

My mom. And so my, my dad is remarried. My mom was remarried. He passed away. So she's a widow now. My sister, her wife,

their kids, like we all get together. Like, like, and we definitely have our shit and i'm working on what my shit is yeah um i think that probably it's you know like whatever i inherited from my father who's very loving and very affectionate but also a dude is probably my emotional distance which is you know what i mean i'm just like you know you can get in here but

you're not ever going to get all the way in. Yeah. Yeah. Then what if I get, well then who am I? Yeah, exactly. You know what I mean?

Tendrils in my soft. What are you going to do with it? Exactly. If you get it, make sure that like, you know, if I have to punch you, there's enough distance between us that I can,

I mean, I deal with that too. Emotional distrust. Yes. Yes. Which is, I don't know. I mean,

protecting yourself. No, but I mean, okay. Well, well, they did not get too personal only for my own curiosity so like because i've been married twice for short periods of time but you know i'm in a relationship now so you're with a dude 25 years and you met him in high school fine so you know there's a familiarity there but did you find yourself completely uh emotionally trusting and open yes oh yes yes yes yes that's good so you've had that you know what that feels like i did uh and i do and i think but i think um and i'm gonna ask you this question mark you did you ever find yourself in a relationship allowing seeing your own ambivalence about your feelings

translate into um a concern that the other person was ambivalent like oh if i'm feeling like i don't want to be in this relationship they probably are too and then that makes you behave defensively or push someone away yeah but like prophylactically no No, I get that. But that's the old trick. I don't, you know, it's really like, you know, I don't have the guts. But rather than your suspicion of them, like I'm not lovable. No, I get that.

They don't love me. It's like, if I feel like I might not want to be here, the likelihood is that they feel that way as well. But my experience is that that translates to, I don't have the guts to end this. Right, right. So. Sure.

So I'm going to. So I'm going to be a dick. Assume, I'm going to project. Yeah, that they want to be they want out and then start saying that like you don't want to be with me exactly exactly and then i'm gonna wreck things and you know and till you happen to be a dick until you hate me and then i got my way yeah i've exhausted you and you have to exactly exactly just i'm gonna shit just just like soil the bed every night until you can't sleep and shit right yeah is that how you handled

it yeah uh i'm not gonna i'm not gonna cop to anything i am gonna say that i love this bookmark it has a it's it's very don't you change the subject i did i will i will say that i think um you know like relationships but you talk about it a lot right you've written books that deal with this stuff yeah and i think that relationships are are are they, they're very difficult. And I think, you know, when I was younger, I just thought you fall in love and you stay in a relationship. You did that. And I did it. And I did it for 25 years.

I can't believe you did that. And I loved it. I loved it. And I endorse it wholeheartedly. I also wonder though if how realistic or how natural it is to be with one human being for your

entire adult life. Of course I get that but like look where you are now like you know you're free and you know you gave your life you committed and you liked it but you're with someone like you're like in college. Yeah I'm back at like 23.

I hit the reset button. And now like who knows? Like are you dating? Who knows what's going to happen? All right. How long has it been since you got split up? Three years. Yeah.

It's hard. It takes a while to get over. Yeah. It takes a while to get over. And I also feel like when you've been in a relationship for a very long time, it's hard. It takes a while to get over. Yeah, it takes a while to get over and I also feel like when you've been in a relationship for a very long time, it's interesting to spend some time

with yourself. Right. You know, it's interesting. But spending time with other people is going to be weird. Yeah, and also, I don't want anybody touching my shit. You know what I mean?

Like, I have my shit. It's my shit. I have my shit the way I like my shit. Don't come in my house and move my shit around. You know what I mean? And the materialistic shit. Yeah. But like the stuff that represents the way I like my shit the way I like my shit. Don't come in my house and move my shit around. And the materialistic shit. Yeah.

But like the stuff that represents the way I like my shit to sit in the, don't touch my shit. Yeah. And now that you have a smaller space. Yeah. You know where all your shit is. You know I'm anal. I'm very anal.

So my shit is all lined up. There's like six plates and six cups and six bowls. They all match. You know what I mean? Like, no, I don't want anybody touching my shit. Yeah. That's the wall you've built. That is the, I have a variety of walls, high and low, some porcelain, some stone.

Well, what did you end up like? It's weird. Like, I think it's everyone's fantasy to kind of like, you know, get rid of everything. I mean, like, what did you, what did you get rid of that you thought you would never get rid of? Oh God. I mean, like, what did you, like, how this down, so you sold the house? I sold my house.

I got rid of all my furniture. I. But was it freeing? Was it like. It was very freeing. It was very freeing. And I don't miss. And I mean, like, I had one of those hutches that had like all the dishes for like the

occasional dishes, you know, the egg cups and the ramekins and, you know, for Thanksgiving. Here's, here's what it represents, though. I don't even cook anymore. I used to be a big home chef. And I used to go to a restaurant, eat something, and I'd go home and I'd replicate it at home. And I made bread from scratch and beer from scratch. And I would have parties where I would make ice creams. And I had a garden.

And I literally, my diet consists of nuts and items from the frozen section at Trader Joe's right now like that like because I don't want to put energy into anything but making stuff like making art so like I don't even I don't even feed myself like last night I had a cut up apple uh for dinner now and I had some nuts I had a cut up apple and some nuts for dinner I think you know like but like that that the thing that you used to be or what with that life you were living. I mean, there's I like to cook. I just bought a new house, you know, and it's like cooking is great. It's self-care.

Right. But, you know, like if you're in that loop of like having people over. Yes, exactly. Bring over some wine and we'll taste it. But I wasn't lying and I wasn't faking it. That was who I was. No, but I think that it but it's it's a good experience. And I enjoyed it. And then I and then one day I just't faking it. That was who I was. No, but I think that it's a good experience. And I enjoyed it.

And then one day I just didn't want to cook anymore. I remember once I had people over. It's so funny. It's like a seven course meal. I fucking risotto and shit. You know what I mean? And now I'm just like, what's not rotting? You really are 23.

Yeah, I am. I am living. That is it. You're right. You have, I'm going to. It's like you had this 25 years and you had the like a great life and you're like i'm gonna pick up where i where i left off where i left off yeah yeah and i and now i'm like i'm like drinking in a bar on a wednesday you know what i mean like i

you know i had to talk about my divorce on the on the talk and i remember um you know like people were very sweet and supportive and you know writing me these messages online. And it was very lovely. And it was very painful. Divorce is pain. Divorce is agonizing. It's horrible. It's agonizing. I can't get like, you know, I'm with somebody that would like to get married, but I just

don't want to. I'm not assuming that we'll get divorced, you know, but after a point you're like, why get married? It's okay to be gun shy because this person doesn't know what it feels like on the other end it's like i love you and i i understand the impulse for getting married but i also know what it feels like to put my hand in flame so i'm not going to do it again or at least i'm going to take my time well yeah but the whole thing is it's like after a certain age it's impossible not to be cynical i mean i'm sure i'm more cynical than you are. Like you're just, you know, you're-

My cynicism is, I have a burgeoning cynicism. It's definitely growing. But maybe look- But you don't even know, like the part you haven't even got to yet is like, you know, the next relationship. Right, right, right, right, right. And going into it, like how can this last?

Yeah, how can it last? How many heartbreaks do you have in you? Right, how many times can I be huddled on the floor? Like, you know, in a pool of my own tears before i just say fuck this noise you know i you haven't had you haven't had too many i haven't done it yet oh boy i hope you can handle being 23 i did the one i did the one and the one was fucking agonizing man it just so long and it took so long and and and and you're really you know when you're when you get a divorce that relationship is a ghost for you forever. I think people think, oh, you get over it.

Well, it stops being so painful. But you think about it all the time. You think about it every day. Well, it does. That'll go away. Okay. But it is. I've talked about it before.

I don't know how I've talked about it. It's always right there. Right, right. I mean, the heartache, it gets less. I think humans are built to process heartbreak and grief. And you definitely get through it and things will happen in your life where you realize that it no longer has power. Power over you. Yeah, sure. To trigger nostalgia or sadness. But there is those years where it's like, it's right there.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when you talk about it, like, because I got a little screwed in my divorce. Yeah. I mean, she did the right thing. But, like, if I tap into that anger, the process of it, you guys, was it clean? Yeah. I mean, look, we were together a long time. And so, you know, when a relationship like that ends, everybody is in a lot of pain. Sure.

So, you know, when a relationship like that ends, everybody is in a lot of pain. Sure. And I think the way that that can manifest itself is in somebody wanting stuff to make up for the pain. You know what I mean? Oh, boy. So you've psychopathologized that into something manageable. I'm comfortable with the idea that the person leaving the relationship that the person who's not the breadwinner in the relationship feels like they got to leave with something was it fair that's all i'm asking i'm fine with how okay i'm fine with how it turned out that's

good yeah because so then at least you just have maybe nostalgia heartache loneliness and not fuck them no no what the fuck is that no i don't feel that way i because look if i'm in if i know what how much pain i'm in i can understand that that the other person is going to be at least that much pain and probably more and also it's scary to enter the world on your own no matter who you are you know like to go yeah yeah so um but i mean it's interesting it's like i you know you've been married twice i always feel like the first one, you're hopeful. The second one, you feel like, well, this one's going to be the one because I did it the one time and I learned some stuff. I was not that thoughtful.

No? No, I had no plan. No? No rationalizations about how this was going to work? The first one was like, maybe this will fix me. Oh, God. The second one was, I'm really in love with this one. I'm in love.

Yeah, this is it. This is it. Love. We're going to live on love. And which one was the one that bon in love with this one. Right, I'm in love. Yeah, this is it. This is it. Love. We're living on love. Yeah. And which one was the one that boned you? Number two or number? Yeah.

You didn't have any money when you married number one. I didn't. Yeah. That's right. It's always good if you're, you know, go come and pour your leap for it. But like I, you know, I have, like I finally let it go. Yeah. And it was, you know how, you know what happened with that was, and you don't have this experience,

but you know that you have exes from years ago. And there are certain types of exes that like, you know, once or twice a year, they just text you and you see your phone. You're like, holy fuck. What the fuck is that person? Why are they fucking texting me? Why are they texting me? Yeah.

And then I realized recently, like, that's who I am to my ex-wife. Oh, hilarious. Once a year, I would just, you know, shoot an email out thanking her for my sobriety or whatever. Right, right, right. She doesn't want to fucking hear it. No, she doesn't want to hear from you. Like, she don't want nothing.

Right. And I never really thought about it in a selfless way like that. I'm like, I'm that guy. Wow. Because it's interesting. When those people are texting you, you're like, I don't want to hear from this person. I don't want this scab picked off. Right. It makes me feel shitty. Like, oh, it's scary. It's are texting you you're like i don't want to hear from this person i don't want this it makes me scab picked off right it makes me feel shitty like oh it's scary right right weird it's like whereas when you do it to her i'm like it's a it's a gesture

of generosity you're feeling something specific whatever it is or you're trying to work through you're doing you're on some step where you're like look i need to let you know but if you really track it it's always you know fuck you i'm still here yeah look at me i'm fine i'm doing great yeah whatever it is it's not it's not genuinely it's there's no selflessness hilarious yeah i don't know i mean i feel like if you care about someone if you ever cared about someone there's a part of you that always needs to stay connected to them i know but you know even if for them it's it's it's an injury and you shouldn't do it you feel like you need to do i think that's true but that that's one of those needs you gotta keep you suck it up exactly but then there's a part of you that's like well if i don't reach out maybe they won't know that i still care about them but they

don't want to know that about you they don't want you and do you and what do you really care or do you just need some you just really need to know that you still have an effect i don't know i don't know i know i don't want i don't want to be i don't i don't want to be that person still have an effect. I don't know. I don't know. I know. I don't want, I don't want to be, I don't, I don't want to be that person at all. I mean, I might be,

but I do not, I do not want to be the person who's like, set, you know, like sends an email and then all of a sudden on the other end,

like I've, I've set, you know, I've started a fire. I don't know. I, you know, you,

you've got some, you've got, you've still got some shit coming at you. I, I did. I'm still very young, Mark. I have plenty of time to make mistakes.

No, no, no. I know. But I mean, like, you know, like you're, you know, three years out and, you know, I think you should probably start making, you know, good food for yourself. Instead of eating, living on my Trader Joe's burritos? Yeah, but I mean, but you can, like, it's nice to like, you know, if you know what you like to eat to cook for the week, you know. Yeah. I just mean, but you can, like, it's nice to like, you know, if you know what you like to eat to cook for the week, you know.

Yeah, I just don't, I just, whenever I'm cooking. No joy in it? No joy. I find it, I'm going to be like, you know,

like, you know, Howard Hughes or something like that. Just like kind of sitting up at night scribbling with my long fingernails and my urine stained pajamas. I just,

whenever I cook, I just feel like this is keeping me from doing stuff that like I really want to do. Well, you keep talking about this so you made this movie and it's been what a year since you made it yeah so i made this movie uh it has been i i finished it uh what it's 2018 geez so i finished at the beginning of 2017 january it went to festivals all last year right now it's coming out on april and you still do uh archer i still do archer what's

it 900 seasons already yeah we're in season nine it's people love that it's coming out on April 10th. And you still do Archer. I still do Archer. That's what's at 900 seasons already. Yeah, we're in season nine. People love that. It's coming out in April as well. Your pivotal role in that. Yeah. But that's not uncreative or a big chore. No, it's not a big chore.

It's not burdensome. I love it. I always love that show. Criminal Minds is still going. Criminal Minds is still going. We're finishing season 13. I really love doing that show. I like the cast.

So you're employed in a way that you're comfortable. In a way that supports my creative life. And're off the talk that's not that demand is gone yeah and i and we're still doing whose line uh is it anyway and that's fun where's that on that's uh cw on the cw um and i think that's weekly this summer yeah we did we do we typically do 22 and i think this season where there's they've got so many bank that maybe there's only going to be 13 it's weird because you live in this world of, like, you know, network television that, like, network television is so spread out now. It's crazy.

You know, like, and you have all these jobs. And they're, like, none of them are on the same network. Yeah, and it's just sort of all over, and they all have their audiences. Right, and they don't really dovetail, right? There's no Venn for these shows at all. It's interesting. And then I just wrote it. I finished a script that I'm getting i'm a movie script yeah movie script

really direct and i and then my little company i have a little company it's just essentially me and my assistant but i i'm buying two things to adapt and i i'm just uh books uh yeah one one one's a new option books one's a life story uh and then one is a series of books. So for series or for movies? Hopefully one will be a movie. And the other one I don't know yet. Because I have to explore what it needs to look like. Which it's just neat to be in that place now.

Like making stuff. And then I have a booze company coming out. So clearly I'm not sober. A booze company? I have a spirits company. I started a line of company coming out. So clearly I'm not sober. A booze company? I have a spirits company. I started a line of ready-to-drink cocktails. What are you trying to do? I don't know. World domination, Mark.

Ready-to-drink cocktails? Yeah. How is that helping the world? It's helping me. You know what? This is a real problem that I solved. And I'll tell you right now. Yeah.

When I was moving back into my bachelorette phase, I would come home after work tell you right now. Yeah. When I was moving back into my bachelorette phase, I would come home after work and I would want a drink. And I would just want one drink. And I didn't want to like pound a beer or have a shot. I wanted one well-made

delicious cocktail. And I didn't want to make it because it made a big mess. And as I've already illustrated, I hate doing things. So I'd make it and I'd get out my rye glass and my stir and all that shit and sticky and everything so I started batching them in these bottles I'd

make like a bottle of Negroni's and I'd keep it in my fridge so I could just pour out one drink at that night like like a classy lady this is so close to an AA qualification I probably is it probably is uh I'm quite comfortable with where I am okay good and uh and I thought god it'd be great if you could buy this in the store. So I spent a year formulating these cocktails, and I found a VC partner, and then I started building this company, and it's- When's that going to launch? Summer.

And what's it called? It's called Courage and Stone. Courage and- Courage and Stone. Courage and Stone? Courage and Stone, yeah. So Top Shelf- Courage and Stone.

Courage and Stone. And you're using Top Shelf Liquor to- It's a tiny distillery out of Brooklyn. And it's Whole Foods compliance, kosher. It's not like that bottom shelf sticky crap. It's something you would make for yourself if you cared to do so. Sure. Something for people who like to drink alone at home.

Yeah. But they want to mix it up a little bit. But they want to keep it classy. Quality cocktail. They want to keep it classy. Quality cocktail. They want to keep it classy. Just keep it classy for the kids. This is not your mom's box wine. No, this is not your store-bought margarita mix.

All right. Okay. But, Mark, look, obviously we've worked it out. What have we worked out? I have a very compulsive personality. I'm just trying to wield my powers to my own benefit, right? If I'm going to be obsessive and compulsive, I would just like to direct that energy towards making things rather than pulling out my eyebrows with my fingernails.

Okay. Look, I'm happy. I like the new you. You kept your nice clothes and stuff though, right? You can still function in the world. Yeah. I mean, actually- You wear sweats. I always wear sweats. you you kept your nice clothes and stuff though right you can still function in the world yeah i mean i i actually you're wearing sweats i always wear sweats yeah i wear i wear i only like when you go for a meeting uh you know for your production company to pitch a show to a network

you still got i still kind of wear sweats no come on yeah i you know i i i find all that dressing up to be infernally boring uh i do it for the right car turning your back on all of it i do of it. I do it for the red carpet, but in my life, I just want to be in sweatpants. I'm sure I'm insane. I should ask my therapist about it. You are not insane. No, I think it's exciting. I'm surprised that you're in this place. You know what it is?

It's good. I'm happy for you. I'm done trying to impress people. That is part of it. Do you believe? Really? Well well in this okay Mark

I just don't want to move through the world always worrying right about whether I'm impressing people yeah yeah so if I and I think that when you're

in your 20s and 30s especially you're so anxious am I dressed correctly do I smell okay are people going to like me are they impressed by me and if And if you divorce yourself from that inner monologue and you just say, I am who I am and I'm going to move

through the world the way that I want to, and I'm not going to wear a skirt or be fancy or have fancy hair because I don't give a shit. If people don't like this version of me, I don't care. It's very freeing. If I have to go to a meeting i will put on a pair of clean pants good but i i just i'm done with that thing of like oh do they like me do they think i'm good enough like it's it's a waste of mental energy and i think i spent my i spent my time in that eddie for a long time image the image eddie do i look like the other ladies is my life category right am i as fancy as taraji p henson right you know beyonce's got long nails maybe i should have long i mean it that's a waste of mental energy i guess that's what i'm saying that's

why i wear sweatpants all the time because i don't care and why you made your life smaller and you don't cook for a lot of people and you got rid of your ramekins well i got rid of all my ramekins fuck ramekins great seeing you you're the best you're the best. You're the best. Thanks for having me. Yep. That was fun, right? As I said, the new film that she directed is available now on digital download and on-demand providers. She's also back on the new season of Archer. That's starting Wednesday, April 25th on FXX. And don't forget, folks, in life there are occasionally problems you just don't know how to address. It can be overwhelming and frustrating.

Yes, HBO's new series grapples with just that feeling as comedian Wyatt Sinek wades through America's most complex and confusing issues to look for some answers, whether they're helpful or not. Wyatt Sinek's Problem Areas airs Fridays at 11.30 p.m. You can stream it on HBO Go or HBO Now anytime. Watch Problem Areas for questionable solutions to unquestionable problems. Questions. Questions. Questions.

I don't know if it's breaking down, my ability to talk. I don't know. I have a question. That was, oh man, what was that? That was from Cuckoo's Nest. Nurse Ratched, i have a question that was the way oh man what was that that's from cuckoo's nest nurse ratchet i have a question i have a question why can't i have my cigarettes what was that guy's name he was so good oh man where did that come from boomer lives We'll see you next time.