WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 911 - Scott Thomson / Tom Rhodes

Episode Date: April 29, 2018

Scott Thompson from The Kids in the Hall isn't too worried about the way of the world these days, mostly because he's been through so much that it all seems like gravy from here out. Scott tells Marc about his recent battle with cancer, his family's tragic encounter with mental illness, and his house being firebombed by Islamic fundamentalists. Also, Marc welcomes back to the show his old friend comedian Tom Rhodes, who had to manage his own grieving process in the past few years. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it i am looking at a beautiful sunset out my window of the Westbury Hotel in Dublin Ireland right now oh look there's a seagull I wonder if that's the one that shit on my window before I got here I haven't talked to you since uh when is it Thursday and a lot has gone on a lot has gone on in the world Bill Cosby's going to prison that was a long time coming I don't know if he's going to prison they might lock him to his. I don't know what's happening, but it was pretty spectacular. A bit of justice there. Still in Dublin. And I want to thank everybody for coming

out to Vicar Street. That was a great show. I love that place. I love that club. I love the people in Ireland. Can I say that? I'm honest about it. I feel very comfortable here out of all the places I've been. And this is not to knock Oslo or Stockholm or London even. It's just something about the Irish. I just feel very comfortable. I think they're very authentic people. They're very nice people. And I like it here. I like it so much that this was my plan, that if I had to leave the country, Ireland is always the place I felt like coming. And I got no connection to it genetically. I can't claim any citizenship. I can't. I just, I like the people. And I've always been mildly obsessed with the Irish, to be honest with you. Back in college,

all those years, I started in Boston. I performed for the American Irish at the beginning of my career. That was my baptism in fire. It was an Irish fire that I was baptized in. Probably, you know, not right off the boat Irish, but a few generations in. But my relationship with the Boston Irish was always a little tense for me. I'm sure they didn't give a fuck or a fuck, but for me it was. And then when I come back here, when I come to Ireland, I see the source. I come to the source of the American Irish. There's many more American Irish people than there are Irish people, Irish Irish, in the world, I think. I believe that is true. They have spread. But I see them. They look familiar to me. From living in Boston all those years, I come here and there's a difference. There's a difference in vibe.

And I'm not being judgmental. I'm just acknowledging it. It seems that over a couple of generations in the States, it activated some sort of menace and intensity that I don't feel here. But then again, it's limited. I may be romanticizing. I guess what I'm saying is the Irish are okay with me and they're a great audience and they're very pleasant people. I've had a nice time. I did things. Did I mention who's on the show today? guess i should do that scott thompson is on the show and i haven't uh i haven't done scott thompson yet i mean it's sort of amazing i've got i think i've only got one more kid in the hall scott thompson's on the show today as is a uh a little talk with uh with my buddy tom rhodes my old friend tom rhodes stopped by just to chat oh my god i'm a little disheveled I'm a

little fat my tummy's uh hanging over my pants you can't eat bread with every meal and expect to win you just can't why did I let myself doesn't matter I'm not going to do this with you people not today I'm going to tell you about the amazing trip we've been having so we got here the book of Kell folks uh that old manuscript they got over there trinity college they reached out to me on twitter and we went over there and we went to the book of kell exhibit and got walked through by someone who knows what they're talking about and learned a little bit about that the whole book is there but for some reason they're just going to let you see a couple pages you just assume that the rest is under there. You see a couple of the nice hand-done manuscript pages of the Book of Kel,

which is a very old book of the four Gospels. Got a little history. And then we went into the old library at Trinity College, the Long Room, which is the most dramatic and gorgeous wooden room full of books I've ever seen in my life. Learned a little bit about that. Stood next to a statue of Jonathan Swift. Thought about Yates. Thought about Joyce. Thought about Swift. A lot of good shit come from around here. A lot of deep stuff. A lot of cutting to the bone type of business come out of Ireland.

I did not buy a tweed jacket. I almost did. I looked at the tweed jackets. I thought about myself in a tweed jacket and I thought about myself in a Irish cable knit sweater, but I didn't buy either of those because I live in fucking Los Angeles and the need is limited for the tweed and the heavy sweater. You dig? I think I covered a lot of stuff here. I would like to bring, I'd like to share my conversation with Tom Rhodes with you now. He has a podcast, Tom Rhodes Radio. Get that wherever you get podcasts or go to tomrodesradio.com.

I think he does another one called Smart Camp as well. But this is me talking to my old buddy, Tom Rhodes. Tom Rhodes back in the garage. This would be the original. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything.

So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats, but meatballs and mozzarella balls. Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence.

Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising.

Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. garage but where you been man i was watching i look at the instagram and you know it's like you know all of a sudden you're in paris you're you know like where are you now i love paris yeah it's great i've been doing the international circuits for like 20 years yeah and i have a long history with paris yeah i was in mongolia last year now but when you do these shows like in paris and It's great. I've been doing the international circuits for like 20 years. And I have a long history with Paris. I was in Mongolia last year. But when you do these shows, like in Paris and Mongolia, who are the audience? They're English-speaking.

Unless you've done a lot of homework over the last few years, I'm assuming you're not speaking native Mongolian or even French, Tom. No. Well, I mean, in Mongolia, ulaanbaatar and paris the it was all locals yeah you know it's mostly um french people in paris mostly mongolians and who speak english who speak english and love english language comedy um you know a lot of gigs i do like tokyo will be half expats yeah and half japanese people in china it'll be mostly expats with a handful of chinese people you know yeah switzerland is and it's usually like half and half but i mean is this satisfying to you is this something that you enjoy doing because you like to travel or is it because you have to do it? Well, I do it because I love to travel and I get off on learning about places.

Aside from the used record stores, I like to go to used bookstores. Yeah. You're sitting in one. Need anything? Yeah, sure. Are you getting rid of all that stuff? Not all of it. Probably some.

I'm surprised there's so many self-help books. Is there? I'm kidding. You didn't even know what you had. That's great. Yeah, I mean. That was so cute and innocent. Is there?

I got a couple of recovery books here, but those are history recovery books. That's Pass It On, Bill wilson and the aa message and the language of the heart pass it on is the history of aa wow out from the you know the two dudes the dude that made it wow yeah but no more you got nothing no more drunken for you no more drinky no i'm uh wow i'm four years off the booze. But you just do it your way. You don't do recovery. Yeah, that's one way to put it. Yeah.

Yeah. You think it's bad that I didn't do the AA route? Who gives a shit how you do it? I follow Bill Wilson on Twitter. Isn't that enough? Yeah. I don't give a shit how you do it. I don't judge that.

You know, the series of events that led up to me turning my life around. Yeah, I mean, you know, we're friends and, you know, I'll give you the quick recap. But, you know, my father was, I've been a heavy party in my whole life. I remember. We've had some times. We had some times together. Sure. And, you know, I really, I thought I was at the pinnacle of my career and way of living.

I put everything into storage. I didn't live anywhere for 10 years. I would do like three or four months a year in Europe, you know, a month in Asia, a month in Australia, a month in New Zealand, all over the States. My wife traveled with me for eight of those years. And then when we had time off, like four years in a row, we went to Rome and rented an apartment. I did a month in Asia. Then we went to Bali for a couple weeks. And this is all just sort of like, this is how you wanted to live.

This is my dream way of living. And now with today's, you know, with like Airbnb and, you know, it's like you don't have to live anywhere. Right. you don't have to live anywhere. Right. And so when I had time off, I would go to New Orleans a lot and San Francisco in the States, Venice Beach when I'd be in LA.

We really had life perfect, I thought. And my father was killed by a drunk driver. I loved my dad. My dad's the reason I'm a comedian. Yeah. And I took that pretty- How old was he? 74, 73 at the time.

He was in a car? He was in a car in Anaheim. Yeah. And- They lived out here? My dad lived in Anaheim. Uh-huh. Yeah.

And then a year and a half later, and I hadn't gotten over my dad dying. And then a year and a half later, my little sister died of breast cancer. And I was really close with my sister. I have two jock thug older brothers who were bullies and beat the shit out of me. And my sister and I, to rebel against my brothers, became like artsy and cool. And we were into theater and movies and comedy and music. And it was always me and my sister against my brothers. Right.

And so my wife and I, Ashna, we were going to get married on April 22nd. And then on April 19th, they said she's got 24 hours to live. Oh, my God. Things went horribly bad two weeks before we were going to get married. And so I was in Florida because we were going to get married and so i was i was in florida uh because i was going to get married and then all this goes terribly bad with my sister and uh they said that she's got 24 hours to live and my i said to ashna do you want to get married at her bedside and she's like oh my god of course So we got married at my sister's hospital bedside

at the Orlando Regional Medical Center in Orlando. That's heavy, man. Oh man, you know. Was she conscious? She was conscious. She clapped and she said congratulations through her breathing mask. And it turned out to be the last word she ever spoke.

And I can't tell you how much I loved my sister and how painful this was and i mean doctors and nurses and everybody was crowded at the door it was not a dry eye in the place especially me i was like i do yeah and i mean now looking back i can see how beautiful the beauty in the moment i mean at the time it was completely gut-wrenching and heartbreaking um but um you know and then she died uh it's a very long painful wait to watch someone you love die of cancer yeah um and uh if you think about it, you know, I guess getting married in a hospital is kind of a good place because like people are being born and people are dying and, you know, I

can look back on it now and see like the, the, the, the textured beauty. The poetic, poetic beauty. Yeah. Um, but I went into the toilet emotionally afterwards. As a newlywed, just spiraled. Well, I mean, it wasn't depression. It was grief and sorrow. Sure.

And I really, I saw no joy in life. And it was difficult to come up with jokes. Fortunately, I have so much material that I've been doing comedy for so long. I could still do gigs. Yeah. And it felt great to put my brain on a shelf and go out and do shows

and feel laughter washing over me. Yeah. But I pretty much, my wife helped me, but I think I lost my sense of humor for a while. And then I was also really medicating myself. Yeah. Drinking more than I ever had.

Yeah. And I've always been a heavy partier, and I really got this fat white guy alcoholic face with the booze nose. And I just... Are you smoking? I'm heavily smoking. Yeah. Two packs of cigarettes a day. And I blacked out in Philadelphia.

I was in Philadelphia for New Year's Eve. Yeah. Working. New Year's Eve came on a Wednesday. And then the contract, they had me stay in for the weekend. Right. And then I had January 1st off in Philadelphia. And it was a normal evening.

I had 10 pints of Sierra Nevada yeah it was a normal evening for me right and I blacked out I fell off this bar stool like a tree and busted my head open on a tile floor and there's blood everywhere and once my head hit the ground I was wide awake some guy lifts my arm up and he yells out to the bar we gotta call an ambulance yeah I'm like fuck that I don't have health insurance don't you dare call an ambulance right you know you said that i did and he goes he goes he goes you got to get to a hospital i go how far is the nearest hospital he goes two blocks so um i walked to the hospital and i i got six stitches on my forehead and uh i had to get like five staples on the top of my head. And the next morning I woke up

and I saw so much ugliness in the mirror. Yeah, bloody ugliness. I had a Frankenstein stitches. I had a black eye. And I just thought, that's it, I'm done. And I thought to honor my dead father and sister, dead father and sister yeah uh i i i should i should be the best human being and comedian i can possibly be instead of getting fucked up every night of my life well you were gunning for uh the you know you were gunning to really hurt yourself well i mean i you know every hero i mean

you started out the same every hero i ever had died fat naked and bloated on the bathroom tiles i know but it's like you know that's not what makes them aspirational yeah no i know but i mean it took me a long time to figure out i mean i was just numbing myself because no i know i i didn't want to face my own grief sure and then i realized that like as a comedian and an artist, that is what you need to do. You need to face your own grief and your own shit that's going on in your life. And process it and disarm it and make it funny. And make it funny. Get some distance from it.

There's no way to get distance from it if you didn't stop or take it in. But like, you know, it sounds like, I mean, that kind of heavy shit, like your father going and your sister. I mean, you know, that's years of fairly, you know, conscious grieving. Yeah. I mean, and it hurt. I mean, and, you know, the Charlie Chaplin quote pops to mind. Comedy is to take your pain and play with it. Did he say that?

Yeah, I just read his autobiography. So you don't drink no reefer anymore either? No, and my wife, I mean, minimal. Yeah. Like, my wife is from Holland. Yeah. And the misconception about Dutch people is that they love weed.

No. Dutch people hate weed. They like hash? No, and the thing is, you know, there's exceptions to every rule. But this is what we're not getting in the United States right now. Yeah. Weed is tolerated and semi-legal in the Netherlands, but they teach their kids that drugs are for losers.

And so my wife just thinks that, she thinks weed is up there with heroin. And I love my wife more than I love getting high, I have learned. And now in the United States, because it's becoming legal state by state, working from the West. You know, imagine when prohibition ended, how much people just must have drank and gotten fucked up everywhere yeah so i think that's kind of like what's happening with weed now is it it doesn't i wonder i don't think i i don't haven't done a lot of reading on it but it doesn't seem like people are going crazy i'm saying people are uh i'm seeing weed everywhere sure uh people smoking pot right right but it's sort of like uh i i think that the people that

are going to smoke pot are going to smoke pot and the people that aren't aren't you know it's you know what i mean like the people that always but what i'm talking about is people from a young age smoking this really crazy high grade pot yeah that's definitely going to have an effect on your brain sure it's not like when you and i started out you know i lived in amsterdam for five years you go to amsterdam the weed shops is like oh man give me super skunk triple x dog dick right you want the because you're like trying to be manly or whatever i can handle weed yeah after i lived there for like a year i would go into the weed shop and go hey you guys got any like mexican rag weed you know something you can low grade stuff something you can roll and like have happy conversations with your friends and not be incapacitated so i mean

you know i've talked about this on my podcast and had people you know write me nasty things you're talking against weed no i've spent my life smoking weed. No one is more pro-weed than me. I'm just saying that there's not this counter good advice to people that if you smoke weed all the time, you're not going to get shit done. Yeah, and it's going to diminish things because you get a lot done in your head. And also, it disables your ability to listen a little bit. You get a lot done in your head and and also you it disables your ability to listen a little bit you get a little paranoid you sort of get detached but it affects people differently you know some people don't get any of those things and i guess some people it helps i've gotten a lot more done uh with my wife cracking the whip you know without weed you know i've i've been working on this book for like seven years about my life as a comedian and all this stuff.

Seven years? Yeah. I mean, I started it. I wasn't sure where it was going. Everything has come into focus about, you know, what I had to deal with about getting over the grief in my life. That's great. So, like, where are you at with it? How close are you to finishing the book? I'm going through the second in my life. That's great. So like, where are you at with it? How close are you to finishing the book?

I'm going through the second draft right now. So I'm cutting the fat off of the pork chop. I got a few friends. Oh my God, your buddy, Jerry Stahl, when I saw him, when I was hanging out with you guys at the comedy store, he helped me tremendously.

Oh really? Yeah, because I was talking to him. And so he's like, you know, well, tell me what your story is, you know? And so we're talking and it's, you know, from having conversations with people like him and a few other writer friends of mine, I've been able to flesh out like kind of because I was trying to tell too much of the story. Right. So I was telling him about my life. And, you know, after the sitcom sitcom i had the money and i looked at

that as my nbc artist grant and i started taking trips to europe and that's how i got in with the worldwide comedy circuits and just you know and i'm telling him about my life and i said listen you know i i just uh tried to clean up chapter seven and chapter seven is 70 000 words and the or something like that then the great gatsby was only 60 000 words and jerry goes uh sounds like you had a more interesting life than gatsby and then he also said it sounds like you have more than one book in you yeah so uh that was very helpful you don't have to tell the whole story. Right, right. Yeah, that is helpful.

But like all these early things that happened to me on the road when I first went on the road, like crazy stories that I tried to, just trying to jam everything in there. And you don't have to jam everything. I think that's what a first draft is for. Yeah. And then, you know, just kind of weed them out, you know, put them in different files. That's for the other book. Yeah. Well, nothing will be lost i mean uh another writer friend of mine told me that yeah just know that in the future things will be used because you know uh i i was i was maced the first time i went to paris i almost drowned in thailand yeah i had my own

late night talk show on dutch television in amsterdam yeah you know yeah and all this epic story about um uh losing the people i love the most in life and they're still trying to maintain a sense of humor sure as a comedian yeah uh i think that's a pretty epic story yeah well that could be one story the the road tales could you know dealing with grief and dealing with that that the whole process of processing the deaths uh and also getting clean and sober yourself that's a that could be one whole book yeah so you got the book going that in the new podcast is did you is it renamed or anything i it's Tom Rhodes Radio Smart Camp, which comes from our mutual friend, Jack Bulwer.

Whenever he and I get together, we call it Smart Camp because we talk about books and whatever we've been into since we've last seen each other. I haven't talked to him in a while. I saw him last week. How is he?

Beautiful guy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's doing great. He's doing good? Yeah, yeah. I guess we don't talk as much as we used to. I don't know why. Well, you're busy yeah I guess I should we don't talk as much as we used to I don't know why well you're busy I guess I maybe I don't reach out to people I see I feel like I'm isolated it is busy you

always let us reach out to you but you know you were I don't reach out to anybody it's not like there's a there's a crew I mean like Jerry you know there are guys that I don't do much do you know what i mean like i like what do i do you got you know you have the i've got sarah i've got comedy and occasionally i'll go some a.a meetings and i'll go see a movie but i guess i don't differentiate between work and and doing things but i guess it is yeah and i see you at the comedy store right you know like you like i feel like i'm getting to a point where i i'm to have a new house, like have people over, do that kind of stuff. Like, you know, I don't know why people don't talk as much as they used to

because you text, you know, you don't get on the phone. Like I used to do that with people. Well, you and I, you know, we. Yeah, I see you. But like the fact that, you know, Jack and I, Christ, Jack was at both my weddings. You know, there was a little tension years ago, but like I thought we got through it.

But I don't, like I just reached out to my old, Sam, who I just don't talk to people enough. I'm not in a regular rotation of talking to guys. Yeah, maybe just a couple. But I guess that's all you got, right? Yeah. But I mean, people understand, you know, you're busy. I guess. I just gave an excuse.

See, I'm an enabler. No, it's nice. Yeah, it's nice. But I feel I'm feeling bad myself. Like that's part of being, like, and also part of my job is talking to people. So I do get satisfied in terms of conversation. Right. So some of, most of us have to do this with our best friends that you do with people all

the time. Just be strangers. Strangers, man. So, well, it's good seeing you. Great seeing you too. I'm glad you're doing well or that you're engaged and healthy and, you know, sober and writing and doing comedy around the world. Yeah,

man. I, you know, I'm, I'm very happy in life. I, the, the,

the further, you know, I tell people have gone through different tragedies and losing people. They love that, you know, you're never going to fully get over it. They're just degrees of better. And now that I'm so many years past it, I'm very happy in life, very creative.

My wife is a photographer. We push each other to be creative in our best selves, as cheesy as that sounds. And then I want to say the last thing. Yeah. I just played at this beautiful theater in Paris, Theater La Ouvre. Yeah. I can't pronounce it.

Yeah. It's French for masterpiece. Yeah. How do you say ouvre? Ouvre. Ouvre. Something like that? That's it.

I'm not good. I don't know. La Ouvre. Yeah. I'm booked back at this theater on October 15th, and I'm going to film my next hour special there. So if any listener, I'm working on that now, who's going to produce it. Cool.

So if anybody's looking for a happy trip to Paris. Yeah, and you want that to involve Tom Rhodes. Why not? I'm on board. Why not? I'll on board. Why not? I'll tell you about Daunton and nice things about the French Revolution. Oh, is that going to be...

No, and Voltaire. Voltaire said that God is a comedian performing in front of an audience too afraid to laugh. Obviously, God had also performed at Yuck Yucks in Toronto. Well, it's good seeing you, man. Thanks for coming by. love you mark love you too

all right that was me and tom me and tom rhodes go listen to tom rhodes on tom rhodes radio and uh look at his comedy go go go find some tom rhodes so scott th Thompson, I have not, we run into each other a lot. I haven't seen him in a while. I didn't know that he'd gone through some stuff that we talk about. He had some health issues, and he's good. He's back, and he's revived his Kids in the Hall character, Buddy Cole, and is performing new Buddy monologues across the U.S. and Canada. He's also re-released Buddy Cole's autobiography, Buddy Babylon,

and he's back at it. Scott is back at it. He's had a pretty great career in show business, and it was great to talk to him. So this is me and Scott Thompson. Again, one of the last interviews in the original Garage. You say you've got a lot of books? Yeah, I got a lot of books? Yeah, I have a lot of books.

I have a big library. Like where? In Toronto. So you're living in Toronto now? No, no, I'm here. I'm here, but I rented, a year and a half ago I moved back, and I rented my apartment out, and I've been giving it a couple of years. I'm giving it one more shot.

Oh yeah? Yeah. To be here? Mm-hmm. And how's that feeling? Great. It actually feels great. Yeah?

Things are going amazing. How long were you away for? Eight years. You were in Toronto for eight years? Yeah, nine years almost, yeah. I went back in 2009. I had cancer, so I had to go home. I had no health care, so I had to go home to get cured.

What kind of cancer? I had large B-cell non-Hodgkin's gastric lymphoma. Oh my God. So it's a non-Hodgkin's lymphoma in the stomach. So am I wrong in thinking that that's one of the cancers that they have some success with? Yes. The lymphomas and all the liquid cancers they're doing great with. Yeah.

Like leukemia, lymphoma. Yeah. Those ones, they've made enormous strides the last 10 years. So I lucked out getting that one. Yeah. And I had a cancer that was very aggressive. But the other ironic thing about the cancer I had is that because it's so aggressive,

it'll kill you really fast. But if you catch it early, you can kill it. Oh, really? So it's one of those things, the slower ones, the ones they call the indolent cancers, they're harder to cure. Yeah. And sometimes, many of them you can never cure.

You just manage them. You manage them. But this one is like a fire. And if you hit it really hard, you can just, you can kill it. So this was, you found out you had cancer in 2009? Mm-hmm. April. That's when I started the podcast.

Wow, in September. So you've been away for that long. That long, yeah. So you're just here were you working I went back home first of all I had to go back home

and get cured but how did you find out you had cancer how did you find out you had cancer well I woke up one morning and I had pain in my stomach and that was it

just like that but you knew that this was not regular pain absolutely yes no shit I absolutely knew and the funny thing is we were writing

Death Comes to Town the kids in the hall that show we did in 2009 2010 our mini series about death yeah and bruce and i and and kevin were breaking the story down and i showed up like you know the first week and said i got this pain in my stomach it's bugging me yeah and i knew it i knew it was serious and i was very lucky because i went early right to the doctors. They told me it was like acid reflux. And I said, no, I know what that is.

And then they started, you know, they put me on something for a week or so. And I went, no, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's still there. And then they put a camera down my throat, down my stomach. And they found, and then I woke up and they said, your stomach's full of blood. You're going in the hospital. And that was the end of it. And I was home in a week. So, oh, yeah, because you didn't have any coverage here.

That's right. But I had one month left on my screen actors. So I got my first treatment here at Cedars-Sinai, which was remarkable. And then I was sent the bill and it was $49,000 for my first treatment. It was covered, but it was shocking. And I realized if you put all my treatment together, I was like a half a million dollars. That's crazy.

That is crazy. Crazy. And now how was the care in Canada? Oh, it was great. It was amazing because I've been gone for a long time and I thought they wouldn't bring me back. They wouldn't accept me. But my brother pulled a few strings, and they slipped me back into the system. So I didn't miss any treatment.

I started my treatment here. Then I went home the next day or two days later. Yeah. And then I started it right away. And I went through the next six months. I got treated. How many treatments? Six chemotherapy treatments

and 30 radiation treatments. No kidding. Radiations every day and my chemotherapy was every three weeks. So your brother's got some pull in the healthcare? Well, my brother works in the healthcare industry. Is he a doctor? No, he's an administrator.

Oh. Hospital administrator, even better. Yeah, even better. Yeah, so that's... that's one of those family connections you hope you never have to use yeah it really was a good one i didn't expect i'd have to use it because i didn't expect i'd ever i didn't expect i would get cancer i you know something's gonna get you yeah absolutely but i thought my family were were a heart and stroke people oh yeah we're not we're not we're not cancer people you come from old school heart and stroke people. Yeah, exactly.

So, you know, our arteries clog up. You know, I was more likely, I thought, we're gout people. We're not cancer people. You broke the pattern. I did. Oh. And it was, so I went home and- Your folks still alive?

Yes, my folks are still alive. So I got longevity on my side oh that's good and i need it now i really need it because of the damage that's been done from the radiation and uh but you know i it was amazing so after i was better i decided i would um start over again and so i started really working at stand-up how many how many siblings you have four brothers one's gone but i have five there were five boys. Are they all in Toronto? So was everybody rallying around? Yes.

Yes, they were. Yeah. That's very sweet. Don't be such a baby. It's a good cancer. Oh, that must have been nice, though. It must have been nice to be around family. It was good.

And, you know, it was a really, I mean, I wouldn't, I really wish it hadn't happened, but it did allow me to rebond with my family, see my parents a lot more. My mom has Alzheimer's now. So those years were really good because now she doesn't really know who I am. Is that true? Yeah, she really doesn't know. I mean, she knows that I'm someone that she loves, but she doesn't quite know how she loves me.

So sometimes she confuses it and she thinks i'm a lover yeah yeah oh really here that happens a lot though it does it certainly happens a lot with her it happens a lot with her she'll put her hand on my knee and go oh you're a good looking man i'm like well you're sort of as sort of a i'm sort of your son. Oh, I'm too young to have children. Oh, really? Because you think she's like 11. Oh, really? And then she'll go, okay, ma, really?

And then usually I fuck her. I mean, what are you going to do, Mark? It's your mom, right? Finally. Finally, yes. No one would fault me. No one would fault me for doing that. You had it coming.

And then I decided when i was sick i'm gonna do stand-up because i've got nothing to be afraid of anymore i've always dabbled with it right but i never took it seriously so what was the process for that so like how were you like because i i've seen you on stage doing things but i mean but yeah but i would never call myself a stand-up until now uh-huh i would have called myself an actor who dabbled. Sketch performer, comic actor. Comic actor. Right, yeah.

And one-man show guy. Oh, yeah, you did a one-man show. I did a lot of one-man shows. Yeah, that was the angle. That used to be the thing. Yes, but one-man shows are where you look up to the audience and your hands are down by your side. You've got a body mic.

That's not the same thing. No. Well, what was the one-man show? Remind me of some of your one-man shows. Well, one was called The Lowest Show on Earth. And that was all about how humans are disgusting. And it's all about how all... It's just basically wallowing all the terrible things that human beings do.

Yeah. Oh, that's good. I did 12 characters, and they're all dealing with violence. Mostly it was about violence really how did i miss this i don't well here's what happened with that show it was supposed to go to new york city yeah um i was supposed to open in new york on december no is this a 9-11 story yes it is a 9-11 story september the 18th anytime it starts i was supposed to new york september 18th 2001 where the reason that didn't work is it came out

one week later. There was a bunch of us that went down. There was like, I think Macy Gray had a new album. I think Mariah Carey had a new album, Michael Jackson. And then me. No one remembers me. I'm one of the lost performers of the post-90s.

And my posters went up in New York on the 10th. Oh, my God. And I tell you, Mark, you would have seen this show because it's the best poster I've ever done. And if that bastard hadn't taken those towers down, I would have become a superstar. Oh, really? That was it? On the 11th.

And Macy Gray would have had that second album. Absolutely. And Mariah Carey wouldn't have had that breakdown on MTV later. And my poster was me with a shaved head and 5,000 people would still be alive oh yeah

and that too oh yeah those yeah oh yeah I forgot about them but I had a big it was a such a rock and roll poster I had a

shaved head yeah it looks like I've been slapped my head's like smacked back yeah and there's a big glob of cum dripping down my

my face and it's just dripping off the end of my chin really and that was they put that poster up did they not know it was 10 000 posters but didn't they say like is that cum well i told him it was shampoo it was a conditioner oh you saw it was there was some cum in it yeah sort of like homeopathic there was a tiny bit of cum right then i kept but they put kept diluting it. But they put it up. They did, and I think it would have been a scandal if the towers hadn't come down. That the poster was up? Yeah.

I think it was really, there's pictures of me in New York looking really sad and dusty in front of my poster and everyone walking by it, completely ignoring it. Yeah. Well, I guess they had other things to think about. Yeah, I think they did. I think they did, Scott. I think it was a bad day for a lot of people it was a bad day for me it was a very day for you i know i mean it was rough and then the next post the next show i did was five years later was i remember seeing you in a very wasn't there a period there where you're very

butch yeah and it's catastrophe i think i was really butch yeah which one was that well i mean i i i mean i'm i'm sometimes butch, sometimes fey. But no, you dressed. Like, there was a period there where I... Oh, yeah. Well, I had this character, Tijan. Yeah, right. He was a real hardcore French-Canadian guy.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Super macho. Yeah. I was having a crisis about the masculinity. So I was thinking that everybody was putting me in a box so I wanted to be a masculine so I had this period when I was playing really butch characters.

And that didn't work out so well. Anyway, you must have met some interesting people. I did, I did, I did. You must have learned something about yourself. I did, I did, I did. And now I'm much more, what's the word did i did and now you know now i'm now i'm much more what's the word what am i now oh i'm what the kids call gender fluid are you gender fluid what does that mean exactly i don't really know i don't really know i don't know i just say

it so that people won't think that i'm old oh good that's nice you're keeping up you're keeping up with the new the fresh lingo yes i I'm woke Yeah, oh good, good for you You're woke and you survive cancer Yeah, I survive cancer And you're gender fluid Gender fluid, I'm woke, I eat poke I'm doing what everybody is doing Poke? Is it poke?

I would think so Oh god, man, I can't believe I said it for the first time In your life, and you said poke On radio, and I said poke Yeah It's not poke, it is poke Poke Like Pokemon Yeah, like Pokemon, yeah in your life and he said poke. On radio and I said poke. Yeah. It's not poke. It is poke. Poke.

Like Pokemon. Yeah, like Pokemon, yeah. And it's Hawaiian, right? That's the hot new food right now, right? I guess it is. You know, I first ate it years ago when I went to Kauai and I thought it was great. There was a place down in Kauai that did a seared poke, a seared tuna.

Because the tuna, that type of tuna is like pigeons in the water down there. There's a lot of it. Right. So it's very fresh, and they just quick sear it, and then they put some sesame oil on it. So usually it's not cooked at all, but that's where I first encountered it down there. Oh, okay. Yeah, I don't know.

I'm surprised it's everywhere. I am too. It creeps me out. It's like raw fish. All of a sudden raw fish is in strip malls, and it's okay. But I mean, why is it not sushi? Because it's prepared differently. Usually it's almost like raw fish. All of a sudden, raw fish is in strip malls and it's okay. But I mean, why is it not sushi? Because it's prepared differently. Usually, it's almost like a salad, right?

So you dice it up and you toss it with a little, I think, sesame oil and some other stuff. Usually, it's a seaweed component. It's more like a sashimi treated. But you just said you ate it. You don't eat it? You made that up. I did make that up. I made that up. I did make that up. Yeah. I made that up.

Do you eat sushi? I do like sushi, yes. You would like poke. Yeah. I like sushi. Yeah. Yeah. It's good.

All right. I think you and who haven't I? Bruce. You haven't done Bruce. I know. I don't think you've done Mark. Yeah. He's the odd one, right?

I would say that. Yes. He's the odd one. You got a you've done Mark. Yeah, he's the odd one, right? I would say that, yes. He's the odd one. You got a lot out of Dave. Yeah, I think that turned into be a pretty provocative bit of business with his marriage and everything. I think more people heard that podcast than saw Death Comes to Town. I'm pretty sure. Well, it made news in Canada because of the divorce stuff.

Do you still talk to everybody? Oh, yeah, all the time. Yeah? We didn't talk about the divorce stuff. Yes. Do you still talk to everybody? Oh, yeah, all the time. Yeah? Yeah. We didn't talk about the other show. So the one with the come on the face violence one. And the next one was called Catastrophe, and that was a show that the premise was really horrible. The premise was that Osama bin Laden took down the towers

to ruin my last show. So that's what the premise of that show was. That was really a... Yeah. And how did that go over? That everybody else was collateral damage just so that i wouldn't go to the next level and you did that show yeah how'd that go over you know it was it was a very interesting show um how it was uh it had a lot of other aspects and it was also a lot of it was about the the death of my brother it was a serious show how'd your brother die well he killed himself so it was about my it was about the death of my brother. It was a serious show. How'd your brother die? Well, he killed himself. So it was about my relationship with my brother.

When did that happen? That happened in 1995. Was he? He was schizophrenic. Oh, really? So was he in his 20s? He was 34. Oh, really?

Yeah. Oh, my God. What's the age difference between you two? One year. Irish twins. So's the age difference between you two? One year. Irish twins. So the schizophrenia hit in his 20s? It hit earlier. It hit when he was about 17.

And in one year, he just became a different person. But in those days, people didn't really understand schizophrenia. Really? No. And also, there was a lot more shame around mental illness. Uh-huh. And in my family, because we were all men and it was such a masculine, like you don't show any emotion kind of a family.

Really? Yeah. People were just thinking that he was showing off because I was like, wait a second, I'm the weirdo. You're the jock. Right. Why are you pretending you're Christ I'm Christ

you're not Christ yeah you can't why are you reading these books yeah that's my territory and because we were very very different we were raised together we lived in the same room yeah we shared bunk beds I mean I was with him my whole life and then he

left but he was a very good-looking, very masculine, very athletic guy. Like, women loved him. And he could play any sport. And then suddenly he became this weirdo. And I was threatened because I was the weirdo. Because you didn't know what was going on. You thought he was just doing it on purpose yes and i and i was not i i was not um sympathetic yeah i was not i was not a good brother and and then what happened was about five years into it it was just it was

really really awful and uh like what were the were the symptoms he thought well he had a lot of you know he thought he was jesus, that he was the reincarnation of Christ, that he was going to rewrite all of Shakespeare's works. And I was like, that's my job. He was going to write all. I remember one time he brought me into the basement and he told me he had, Jesus had told him that he was going to rewrite all of Shakespeare's works. And because this is insane that he wanted more tanks

uh-huh and he was going to rewrite like um one of them and put tanks into it into shakespeare into shakespeare that's what shakespeare was missing didn't have any tanks yeah and that is true the reason there are no tanks reasonable update absolutely and i mean you know in a way i mean didn't they do one that took a version of Richard, one of the Richards in Germany, Nazi Germany? Didn't they do that with? I think so. Oh, yeah. And also they had, and they redid J. Mauston.

They put in vampires. Sure. Right? So why not? Why wouldn't you believe that he was infringing on your creative world when it seemed like a reasonable. Well, see, now, now that he's gone, I've taken on his work and I am putting and I am rewriting all of Shakespeare's works,

and I am putting tanks into everything except for Romeo and Juliet. I just don't think they need it. I think you're right, and I think it's a beautiful homage to your brother's creativity. I think so, and it'll take the rest of my life to do. Well, at least you have something to do. I have something to do. Don't talk about it too much. No, you're right. not many people are listening right yeah so uh

and then he got hit by a car he had a very very um tough life and so he was in a coma for a long time oh my god and then he was supposed to we thought he wasn't going to make it then when he came out of the coma he had um development he was developmentally handicapped he talked funny and he oh my god and he had the mental and and we all thought this is what how how stupid our family was we thought that the the car accident might have kicked the schizophrenia out that was my first thought did he wake up normal yeah that's what we were hoping because we're thinking oh he's gonna when he finally gets back on his feet, he'll walk funny and he'll talk funny, but he will be normal.

But it turned out no. So then he was a guy who was handicapped and had schizophrenia. So that was rough. Very, very, very rough. And then he finally couldn't you know he just things got really bad really really bad and but he lived a long time with it he did he did it was yes he was and this is one of the this is the medication they put him on uh it made him gain a lot of weight and he was a beautiful guy yeah and i And I honestly think that's what did it.

The vanity? Yeah. My family's very vain. Hmm. And I think that might've been part of it. I think he looked at himself and he was getting fat and he drooled. Yeah.

He just, he couldn't handle it. Yeah. And I think he realized, and an interesting thing was the medication cleared his head a little bit and allowed him to face his reality and I don't I think in a strange way it killed him

because he realized oh I have nothing I'm going to be my family and the government is going to have to take care of me the rest of my life I'll never have a family I'll never have a job so he jumped out of his window. Oh, my God.

So on some level, the medication made it worse. Yes. Except that he was controllable. Yes. Yes. And I think now they've made a lot of progress in those medications. They don't have as many side effects. Yeah.

But he had some very serious side effects. Yeah. Since you come from that type of family, kind of repressive, how did they handle your gayness? Not well. Oh, no, not well. My family...

When did you come out? I came out late in life. I think I remember when you came out. think i came out to you mark i think you were the first person i told wasn't it news like wasn't it in like no it wasn't news it wasn't no it wasn't no god no wasn't like the cover of the advocate no are you kidding me still never been i've still never been in the advocate no they're not interested in me why wouldn't they be what are they gay men aren't interested in other gay men oh no no unless they're not interested in me. Why wouldn't they be? What are they doing? Gay men aren't interested in other gay men. Oh, no?

No, unless they're porn stars or drag queens. Okay. Otherwise, no. If they go around regular clothes, no. If you're just a gender-fluid middle-aged man.

No. Gender-fluid middle-aged man. Everybody wants that, right? Yeah. Everybody wants a piece of that. It's the hot new thing. Long, flowing gray hair. you know what I mean? Soft jaw lines.

Yeah, yeah. It's great. Everyone loves that now. Everyone's into that. No. When did you come out? I came out in, I was, I guess, 83? Where were you? In college? Toronto. I was in I guess, 83. Where were you?

In college? Toronto. I was in York University. I went to acting school, and I still didn't come out. That's how closeted I was. I had a girlfriend and everything. Half the guys were gay, and I still wouldn't come out. You had a girlfriend?

Excuse me. Yes, I did. How'd that go? I did it. Sure. Everything. The whole ball of wax. You've seen a vagina you've dealt with i've dealt with yes vaginas yeah and that wasn't the not that's not the only vagina yeah that i dealt with well that's nice i mean i dealt with it yeah like it was like like like like you know like a broken ankle no but there are some gay men that

just have never... They call them gold star fags. Is that true? Yeah, gold star fag is a guy who's never had sex with a woman. But just not even seen a vagina close. Never even seen one. Yeah, like up close. And it creates a certain discomfort in them.

I think so. You need to see it. I'll tell you something. We were talking about my one-man shows. In one of the one-man shows, the one that we were talking about, the one that was going to New York, I mean, it was a crazy show. Yeah. I mean, a lot of it was about terrorism. So it would have had a, it was crazy.

I mean, I had a whole mall about Osama bin Laden. Well, why were you, what drove you towards that subject matter? Oh, well, okay. We'll get back to the other part yeah okay well i was firebombed by um an islamic fundamentalist group yeah many years ago yeah a year year before 9-11 uh-huh and that's what inspired me to write a show about terrorism so the show that i was supposed to open in New York was actually a comedy show about terrorism. You were firebombed? You were targeted?

I was targeted. Where? In West Hollywood. Really? Why were you targeted? Because my boyfriend was a filmmaker and he made a movie called Uncle Saddam and I wrote it. It was a documentary

about the... So they had a thing on you? A fatwa. A fatwa on you. Him. Him. And I was collateral damage. And I mean,

I guess, oh God, maybe now I'll get one. But they attacked us and this is before 9-11. This is before the world changed. So what happened was they came to our house at night

and they filled those giant, you know, the giant garbage. Yeah. The recycle bins. The recycle bins with gasoline. What? Set them on fire. They covered the house with red paint like blood. So it dripped off like blood.

And they put a note inside the house that said, in the name of Allah, the merciful and compassionate, burn this satanic film or you will be dead. And they underlined dead in case we didn't take it seriously. And that's what we woke up to. And that was the year before. They didn't light the things on fire?

Oh, yeah. They lit the bonfire. It was a nightmare. And they were just terrorizing us. But the thing was, the police took hours to arrive. No one believed us. They didn't, no one had any idea what we were talking about. Like my boyfriend said, it's Islamic fundamentalist.

And I remember the cops going, what is that? This is how different the world was. What year was that? It was 2000. Just 2000? The year before. Wow. November 1st, 2000.

And did this make news very small like a tiny little story and i wasn't my name was not in it his name was in it and um my father saw it in canada but it was pre-9-11 so it disappeared and then i wrote a show about terrorism and then i took it to new york and then osama bin laden struck so so these people were american based probably fundamentalist muslims who who were filling out it who were honoring a fatwa against your boyfriend yeah and set your house on fire they're not the house they put they set the garbage cans on fire on the lawn okay and they covered the house with paint so it's like that rare version of a burning cross yes exactly yes yes and terror the blood the red the red paint was the blood yeah and then the note was the death that is crazy it's terrifying and no one really understood and i had no one to really um

i i there was nobody that i could really relate relate to what happened probably like i was a prank and everyone's like oh scott you exaggerate all the time. You're being drama. Oh, why would that happen to you? Right. And then when things like that happened to me, I usually turned to art. So I thought, I'm going to write about terrorism. And the first piece that I wrote was about Buddy Cole, my character Buddy Cole, going to Afghanistan to take on the Taliban. Because it was right after they'd blown up the giant Buddhas. Yeah.

And Buddy was like, well, can I do Buddy? Is that right? Buddy is like, I mean, it's one thing to kill people. Everybody does that. But giant statues of Buddha, that's just fat shaming. So I became obsessed with Osama bin Laden and the Taliban. And the very first piece I wrote was about the Taliban and Buddy taking on the Taliban and firebombing.

And then he goes to Afghanistan to buy anthrax because he hears that it smells really pretty. And he meets Saddam Hussein's son, Uday. Sure. And he's kidnapped by Uday. And they have sex. Well, he's raped by them. Sure.

And in an underground palace with Saddam Hussein so all these things happened that all kind of came true in a way yeah and then that was my show and then so when New York happened I mean when it happened that was the show you had in the chamber yes can you ready to fire yeah and and then that happened and I was like god we were talking about Jung earlier it's like I realized that there was a then that happened. And I was like, God, we were talking about Jung earlier. It's like, I realized that there was a period in my life when I was very close to that, you know, collective unconscious.

The synchronicity thing. I really believe that. And I really believe that there was, there was a lot of stuff in the air that people, certain people could capture. I know. I think that's true. Like,

I think as you, I think you see it, like it happened to me in a dream, like where you have a dream and then you wake up and something in your day that could not have been forecasted happens that's relative to your dream. Absolutely. And that was it. I was having dreams.

I felt almost like I was in a storm, like a psychic storm. Did your relationship survive the firebombing? No, it did not. I mean, he went into hiding and i didn't see him for six months and they tried to kill him a few more times really yeah god i guess this was reported but it was but it never got really reported is he all right now yes he's doing very well oh good so getting back to uh you we were moving from vaginas to the oh yes that show the client the, the climax of that show,

I guess the encore piece was for Buddy Cole. The show began with Buddy Cole in Afghanistan, and it ended with Buddy Cole exploring a vagina. Because basically it was Buddy going, you know, I've just done everything in the world. You know what I mean? I've topped up Nelson Mandela's champagne. You know, he just done everything in the world you know what i mean i've i've i've topped up nelson mandela's you know champagne you know he's done everything yeah i mean his mimosa it was a mimosa scum anyways but he decided what have i not done and i guess buddy goes oh i've never really

i've never really explored a vagina well he he know he had sex with one but he he had sex with her in in a state of like terror yeah it's like when you fuck someone, it's like he fucked someone, but as they were parachuting, he thought, I want to fuck someone lying on the ground where the ground isn't shaking. So basically, the encore was a beautiful woman coming on stage fully naked. Oh, really? And Buddy Cole exploring her. It was a wild piece. And i would do it in clubs and the police i had the police come to one of the clubs why because i would i put her her breast

in my mouth and i'd suck her nipple and then i'd go look at her vagina and i'd spread her her vagina who was this woman she she wasn't an actress uh-huh it was who was doing stripper, who was also stripping. And I think she wanted to make daddy mad. But you had a good relationship with her? We did. She was wonderful. And she was great. This show sounds crazy.

It was a crazy, crazy show. And I mean, I'll tell you, when a beautiful woman comes on stage naked, wow, it just changes the temperature of the room. Historically, yes. Yeah. Wow. It just changes the temperature of the room. Historically, yes. Yeah. But a male doesn't. Like a male, a naked male in a weird way is almost comic. Yeah.

But a naked female is a very different thing. First, it makes gay men nervous. Yeah. It makes women like jealous. They're looking at what they're... And then straight men, well, they can't even talk. Right. That is funny about the observation about a naked man,

because then you're sort of like, oh, look at his dick. Yeah, yeah. Look at that dick. The only person that's intimidated is, the only one is gay men, because they're like, oh, I like that. Well, straight men are sort of like, what's going on? Well, yeah, what's going on? But it makes, you know, homophobia will rear its ugly head.

But it was a wild, wild thing. In the end, I literally, I mean, we practically have sex. But that was what it was about. It was about that I've got to understand the vagina. I've got to get over my, not fear, because I wasn't frightened of it, but I was like, I need to know more about this. Right, it wasn't necessarily desire driven. No, and I

didn't leave the, it wasn't like when the show was over that, oh, I'm bisexual and gender fluid. No, I remained gay and gender fluid. But when you originally were dating women and you first experienced a vagina. Yes. Well, I was young yeah you can you

could no no i didn't fuck anything when you're young and i really liked her like we were really sure we were really do you know love yeah and you know her now yes oh yeah absolutely yes i do absolutely that's nice yeah and i we you know we didn't we didn't have sex a lot right and i was terrible yeah um i you know i shouldn't say anymore she's a married woman has children and i don't want to but you know yes we're friends absolutely so and and what you said your family didn't handle it well at first did you ever do that with a cock did you ever go i really shouldn't understand what it's like to have sex with a man? But I think there was something that, you know, it's sort of like, you know, do I want to try something that might change my life permanently or am I okay?

Right, exactly. Because if it turned, let's say you discovered, oh, I may be a little bi, that's a huge difference. But if I'm a gay guy and I discover that oh maybe i could have sex with women that brings me up in status yeah i don't know does it but being gay you fall i don't know like oh god yes maybe not now the same way but yeah i'll never get i can't get over i can't get over my childhood right well there's a feeling that like for me like there's a lot of things i think i just don't you know i don't like i don't just don't, I don't know if it's repression or if it's just sort of protecting myself.

So you're afraid that maybe you might enjoy it? Of course. Why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't you? But the thing is, do I want to change my life that much? It comes with a new car or anything. Do I want to start doing whatever? I don't think I'm holding myself back.

You're telling me that I should have made a play for you 20 years ago when you were doing drugs. Is that what you're telling me? I think college would have been the time. College is when I could have had you. Yeah, I think so, college. At least you could have had me for half of a thing. I would have maybe gotten halfway through it and said,

I can't, no, no, I can't. Oh, my God, What am I now? So you would. What would we have done? What do you think? I don't know. I don't know you that well. I don't know what you do.

You probably do whatever you could. I would do whatever I could. Yes. I would do whatever I could. Whatever you got to get away with, you would do. Yeah, I get. You're right. Exactly.

You wouldn't. Yeah. Whatever whatever whatever was on the table i would eat whatever was put in front of me i know this isn't a buffet you eat whatever's in front of you whatever this kid's gonna offer whatever he's comfortable with for 10 minutes be a brussels sprout yep you gobble it down but what how did your family respond? Terrible. They actually disowned me. Isn't that hilarious? Really? Well, you think about today. How does that even happen?

I know. My father said, you're no longer part of this family. Really? How old were you? 23. Oh, my God. I know. We've come a long way.

And that didn't last long. It lasted about six months. Yeah. Before. My mother said, what are you doing? you've come a long way um and that didn't last long lasted about six months yeah before your mother talked my mother said what are you doing i don't care oh philip please you've got another gay son oh i don't what i do i didn't know that at the time you have two there were two of us. Yeah. Which brother? One of my younger brothers. Oh, yeah?

Yeah. He's gay too? Yeah. So two gay ones, two not gay ones? Yeah, the one who helped me, the hospital administrator. Oh, yeah? Yeah.

Oh, but you couldn't team up? No! In fact, we were actually the least close growing up because I think we both suspected each other's secret.

So therefore, we had to be really mean to each other so no one So therefore we had to be really mean to each other so no one would think that we shared anything. So I was terrible to him. Oh my God. Terrible. No kidding.

Yeah. And that's repaired itself, obviously. Yes, but it took a long time. And what about the other brother? Well... So there's four and then the one who passed away. Yes. The oldest brother was very, he was fine.

Yeah. I mean, he wasn't fine when we were in high school. He was always like going, don't. He'd be like, you know, when we're in school, you don't say hi to me. You don't come near me. You pretend we don't know each other. But he's just living a normal life, straight man. Yeah.

He was a good looking, smart, athletic guy. Yeah. He's had a very. And then what about you? Made a a lot of money worked in the banks he's a great guy funny yeah what about the other one and then my other guy my young another my youngest brother he's like he's a comedian uh as well yeah he in canada yeah he's uh he he's an actor and he and he and he's married and has children and yeah does all right for himself yes absolutely yeah he's a very funny guy so now i you know some part

of me thinks that you should you know kind of redo that show why don't you kind of uh you know reproduce that well you know i've thought about it um it is my i i have thought about it because after 9-11 did you write it yes you wrote it i wrote it with paul bellini he was my writing partner and i i basically what happened after 9-11 was we tried to redo it, but no one was interested after that. Sure. People were shocked and freaked out by it. And I got into some trouble.

Like, people were... I can't... I'm not really... I can't say too much. Yeah. He got into some trouble with the American government. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Huh. So, yeah? Yeah.

Huh. So, you know, I would actually redo it. And it was about many, many things. It was about high school shooting violence. It was about... Really? Just a lot of different kinds of violence. Well, you could sort of rework it, too.

I could. But, you know, but you're doing... So you did that, and then you did the one after that, and then you got sick? Scutastrophe was what i was doing when i got sick yeah and you were also working on the kids in the hall tour yes yes yes and then after that after i got better i that's when i decided i don't want to do anything where which has any um feeling in it i just want to do comedy because you know what i mean like i don't want to do anything where people go oh yeah right oh yeah so you the one man cancer show is out yes i mean i definitely do a lot of comedy about cancer but i don't i don't i don't like it when i don't like it when

a comedian um uh gets um serious or um a maudlin. And I know, I understand there's a lot of- See, there's a couple, then you wouldn't have wanted to fuck me in my 20s. Were you a maudlin guy? Serious and maudlin. Sweaty. Yeah, but I like the sweaty part. No, I would have.

I remember meeting you many years ago and I thought you were very attractive. Oh, thank you. Yeah, like at Largo or somewhere? Right. Don't you remember we did that dumb game show? Oh, the Nevermind the Buzzcocks? Yeah, that's it.

Oh, you were on there with me once? I was, yeah. Oh, my God. It was so hazy to me. Yeah, that's it. It didn't never caught on, thank God. No, I don't even remember what it was about. Yeah, it was a music show.

It was based on a British show. Yeah. And I hosted, I think we did like 13 of them, and they paid me. I don't even remember what it was about. Yeah, it was a music show. It was based on a British show. Yeah. And I hosted, I think we did like 13 of them, and they paid me. I was in the middle of my first divorce. I was very, like the week of shooting, I was ill. Yeah. Like I had the runs, and I was feverish, and I'd gotten all skinny. You were very thin.

Yeah. I remember you were very thin. Yeah, I was like, and my life was upside down. And I had to take that job because i needed money i didn't want to do that well i must say it didn't seem like a good fit no no it did not seem like a good fit oh it was a disaster but uh okay so the comedy so you you you choose not to be modeling about it now i just what i like i just like i like stand-up a lot because i i just like how it's you just have to be funny all the time and how are you working like before we get into this did

any of the kids come up and see you yeah when you were sick oh they were wonderful because here's the thing i was going through my treatment when we were making death comes to town yeah so when i mean i began the writing process with kevin and. Yeah. And then I, Kevin and Bruce. Yeah. And then I had to kind of take a bit of, and I did it all through my treatment. And then I had to kind of take a bit of time off because I got really ill. Yeah. And then they did the schedule around my treatment.

So I finished my chemotherapy and within 10 days I started principal shooting for the series we shot for 10 weeks yeah and and the day after i finished shooting i went into the hospital and started radiation oh and i kept it together for like two months you know i never was hospitalized the whole time i was yeah i would go into the hospital sometimes but i was never overnight i never had to go in overnight right and how many episodes you do we did eight and i think that that was one of the things that kept me alive and saved my life because i had i had because it was like the kids in the hall we are back together yeah this is what i've been wanting forever and ever and i had a purpose and i had something to pour my energy into and and they were you you know, I could be modeling now, though.

Yeah, sure. They were wonderful. And then when we did the final writing session, it was in Toronto, and they had a bed set up for me on the floor, like a mattress. And so I would basically lie on the floor where they all would work, and there was other writers. And I would occasionally throw in stuff, and then I'd go back to sleep or I'd leave and I'd go off and vomit

and then smoke some pot and come back and say something else and then sometimes one of them would come and lie down with me. I mean, they were beautiful.

Like, they were really, they were like, they were like perfect TV brothers and they were, they were very kind with me and I also they also want to keep me alive for the for the show and i understood that they were like we can't he can't die i mean you can

die after because if he dies right after this we're gonna get some eyeballs on this show well you guys have known each other for so long yeah and and so they were they were absolutely wonderful yeah they were they were absolutely wonderful yeah they were well because it seems to me that despite or or or even whatever has happened in all of your lives yeah however you've grown up yeah it does seem that uh more so than most people who who who uh you know came up in a collective that yes you guys all seem to still like each other. We love each other.

I mean, I know you're like, yeah, yeah, love. But it is love. That's the secret. That is our secret. We truly love each other. And how long ago, how old were you when that started? I was a kid.

And I'm the oldest. I mean, Dave was 18. We met as a kid yeah and i'm the oldest i mean dave was 18 yeah um we met oh well 85 25 30 years ago uh-huh 85 uh-huh that's how long ago is that it's 15 27 32 uh-huh holy fuck wow yeah yeah we've been together forever and we've been together through everything like divorces and deaths and you know yeah more divorces and dave's divorces and you know your podcast about dave's divorce everything and and we've just we've done everything to each other we've hit each other we've you know we slept with each other's partners. We've done terrible things to each other. But there's nothing now that can destroy us.

Yeah. We were like, we're at the point now where we're like, you only leave in a hearse. Oh, yeah. It's like the mafia. Yeah. You leave in a hearse. And you stay in touch with people. Yes.

Yeah. And we're hopefully going to do something soon. And how was that series, The Death One, received? Well, I love it, but no one saw it. Like everything in our careers, we're always a little too ahead of the curve. But what about in Canada? It did well in Canada. Yeah. Here it was on IFC.

It was one of their very first offerings. It didn't get an awful lot of attention. Well, I did a show on IFC for four seasons. It didn't get a lot of attention. That't yeah that's true you did yeah i know we got even less than you can you imagine mark less attention than your show i don't even know if that's true you did you do not know that that's true no but you're getting a lot of attention for glow yeah you're excellent in glow oh thank you i really love you and glow i appreciate that and and so okay so how are you approaching stand-up what are you doing you're up in toronto

and you were in before you came here yeah what i did was i decided to re um basically reboot everything and i decided to go back to back to um my roots and i decided i just started plugging myself into the canadian the the toronto stand-. Yeah, what are the clubs there now? A million clubs. A million alternative clubs. Sure. And the regular clubs, you know, yuck yucks and stuff. Sure. But I went through, I basically started, I would just show up to these places and they'd be like,

what the hell are you doing here? And I'm like, I'm gonna do a set. Yeah. I was sort of like moon doggy. Yeah. Like the old guy that can still surf, you know what I mean? Yeah. And so I just... I do know what old guy that can still surf you know what i mean yeah and um so i just i do know what you mean yeah well you know exactly what i'm talking about and i just started over and i went up very without with very little i can never remember which town i'm in that has which clubs in canada you know like it's toronto the one comedy bar is the big one that you probably

know that's the one where you go downstairs and there's two rooms? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it? It's sort of out a little bit? Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. I did a lot of work there. Uh-huh.

Toronto has the, you know, they have that famous, the famous pot club. Have you ever been to that one? Yeah, yeah. I think I did. I was there once. Yeah. With the pit bulls running around on stage. Oh, I don't know.

It's a wild place. It's like, yeah, I remember maybe you go there after you do a show. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the place. Right. So that's what happened. I just kept doing it, and I started working material.

And my goal was, my plan was that when I get an act, because before whenever I would do it, I would do like Beth Lapidus' Uncabaret, that sort of thing. Oh, my God, that's far back. Right? She still sort of does it. She's still doing it, yeah. But I would write a set, memorize it, or think I knew what I would go.

I would go up and do it, and I would never repeat it. So that wasn't stand-up. But then I decide I'm going to get an act, and when I get an act, and when I feel confident enough, I'm going to move back to the States. So would you put together an hour, hour and a half? Yeah, and I just did my first album coming out. It's called Not a Fan. It's coming out next month. What's that title based on well it's just it's just a funny title and it'll it'll

it's a great headline for for the critics who aren't fans i know i've done several albums i did one called not sold out oh there we go i did another one called tickets still available oh my god it's very much like this this would be a good one for you. Yeah. I'm surprised your next one's not called Not a Fan. Final Engagement was another one. Yeah, that's it. It's my first comedy album. I'm very excited about it. Now, but you're going to release the album and then tour on the material? No, I can't do the material anymore.

I know. That's what I'm told. I'm trying to rationalize. Well, I don't know. I think with an album, you might be able to, but with a special that's on Netflix, it's harder. Yeah. Well, I can't get a special on Netflix.

I'm trying to get a special for my character, Buddy Cole. That's what I'm trying to do as well. I think they want him more than me. Oh, yeah? Yeah. You're in talks? Yeah. Yeah?

I am in talks. Yes, yes. And then maybe he can, once he's in, he can grease the wheels and get me in. Right. But are you doing Buddy Cole shows? Yes, I've been doing the Buddy Cole show regularly at UCB Franklin. Oh, yeah. It's going very, very well.

And what's the structure of that show? It's called A Prelude Deluge, After the Flood. And the premise is that it's Buddy Cole monologues since the kids in the hall went off the air. So it's 25 years. It's monologues since the kids in the hall went off the air so it's 25 years 1995 until now that's 23 years yeah and basically it's like 10 monologues yeah and you follow the monologues and you and you so basically there's a history of buddy cole and they're all about different topics different stories yeah and in between each monologue i have a card boy you know like ufc you have a card girl. Sure. But I have a boy.

And what's he wearing? Very little. I mean, sometimes he wears a lot, but by the end, he's only in a jockstrap. Right. And I use, what I do is I go into a town and then I get a young comic to be my card boy. And I prefer straight men because I want to sexually objectify them. Sure. because I want to sexually objectify them.

Sure. And I'm also very, I find it funny with straight men because they're trying to be sexy. I find that amusing. Right, because they're not, like if they were trying to be gay sexy, it'd be different. It would be different. They're sort of like trying to be, what does it mean for a straight guy to be sexy in that?

And the sweet spot for me is a guy who's just starting to go to seed yeah right a little bit of a pot and that's what makes buddy crazy uh-huh and and he's a little awkward and he's trying to dance yeah and so that's it and then they have cards it's what's funnier yeah yeah and then they have cards, and they're announcing the title and the year. And then at the end, we have a little scene. But whenever I go into a town, I pick a comic to be that card boy. So I have to pick a different- And they're willing?

Yeah, and I like to use stand-up comics. That's my favorite. I would have you as a card boy. I don't know. I know you would. I'm a little old for it. No, no, you're actually the sweet spot. You are going to see.

I'm not. But you're going to see it in a- A little bit, yeah. You know, in a- I'm not doing it. No, but- I can't do it. But-

All right, maybe. You're like grizzled in a- You're perfectly grizzled right now. It's right there? Perfectly grizzled. Oh, good, good. I'm just shy of crumbling. Yeah, or ornery.

Like an ornery old coot. Yeah, I might be heading that way. I'm a little open now. I think I've gotten less ornery, but I imagine that can come back. You're more open than you were. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so maybe you're moving away from ornery.

I am a little. You used to be more of a grumpy old man when you were younger. Yeah, I think if you were to talk to my girlfriend, it's all still in place. Oh, really? The grumpy old man. I think my public persona has opened up. My private persona is still a little tough. Still a lot of gristle on the meat?

A little cranky, yeah. So you've been back how long? Just over a year. I came back the week before Trump was inaugurated. Yeah. I felt I was needed. Yeah. Well, maybe you are.

Well, I think you really need outsiders. I was ready to come to your country. I was ready to go. Oh, you don't want to go to canada why do people say that because you think you want it but you don't no you just want to have that i guess so i i don't know i'm at an age where what do i really need well if you've given up your dreams of like superstardom then go to canada uh-huh well no i just mean like there was a discomfort like you didn't we didn't we. Like we still don't know what the...

I'm not running away. Obviously, I'm engaged and I live here. But I don't know what my country looks like anymore. You know, right now. I think it's going to be okay. I do. I do. I'm not worried at all.

Oh, good for you. No, I'm not worried at all. Because I've seen worse. What have you seen worse? Oh, please. You have to remember, i'm a gay man okay right like nothing's ever going to be as bad as my youth nothing's ever going to touch the hiv epidemic yeah so for me it's all gravy it's all peace time for me yeah so i go nothing's ever

going to touch your friends dying like flies yeah thinking about every sexual act is going to kill you watching a society turn away from you and watch you die that's just never going to be right it's just never going to be that bad and so maybe that's it's it's a little selfish of me to go ah get over it it's you got it good and and i so i really believe and i look back at like george bush jr and i'm like how come people are giving him such a you know a free ride i'm like he invaded sovereign countries he's responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of people in the middle east for all of donald trump's like you know boorishness he's not responsible for all those deaths yet yet but you can't punish a man for something he might do he's not a good guy that's not the point no i know neither was george bush no one who becomes president is a good guy no i understand that i understand that like bill clinton who everybody worships created don't ask

don't tell and the defense of mary jack right so you know like we're moving towards the thing though where you know put you know getting rid of all the protections, environmental protections. Yeah, those things aren't good. Right. I'm just saying that he's criticizable. Of course he's criticizable. I'm not a defender.

I'm just saying I don't see it as the end of the world yet. Okay. And it might be. Yeah. But you're okay. You survived cancer. This is the thing. I'm okay.

And it's interesting because I see so many comedians paralyzed. And I don't know if it's because I'm Canadian. Is it my age? Is it the fact that I'm a gay man who's seen a lot of shit? Paralyzed how? In terms of they're so freaked out by Donald Trump being in power. Right. And also political correctness is making them

uncomfortable especially straight white guys yeah they are like well i can't say anything and i have i'm kind of free i'm like i don't have any of that i don't worry about i'm like i'm not gonna apologize for being white or male i'm a gay man in my late 50s i got nothing to apologize you know what i mean yeah like if you want to like if we want to have, like, you know, enter, like, my generation in the victimization sweepstakes, we win. Yeah. And that's a strange power nowadays in this world we live in. So I'm not worried by political correctness, and I'm not paralyzed by Donald Trump's presidency.

Well, no, I think everyone has to sort of, we do have to kind of fight through that. Yes. I mean, it's the way the country works. And comedy, I think comedians have to remember, you've got to be funny. And virtue signaling or letting everybody know that you're on the right page politically isn't funny.

Right, right. We need to get past that. No one really cares. Right? No, I think being funny, and if you can do a little bit of virtue signaling and be funny. No, no. You can't? No.

They're completely exclusive. I think so. No, I think a person, they should leave a comedy show and go, wow, that person was hilarious. I'm not sure what their politics are. Oh, I don't know if I completely agree with that. I want people to go, I like that guy, but I can't tell if he's evil or good. No, you're evil. Okay.

Okay, I'm evil. That question. That's the nicest thing anyone said to me today. You're evil. Oh, that question. That's the nicest thing anyone said to me today. You're evil. You said, and that came out quick. Well, you know, evil, you're cute evil. Cute evil, yes. Impish.

Can we just say impish? Sure. Yeah. So since you've been back, is the work coming your way? Are you reintegrating? What's happening? Yes. Oh, good.

I'm doing a ton of standup, a ton of live performing. I'm not auditioning a lot. I'm not getting acting roles, but they're going to come. And what was... I was at the Shanley Memorial. Did you come down for that or were you sick? I was sick. You weren't in town.

I wasn't in town, yeah. No, I loved Gary Shanley. He was an amazing man. How long were you on that show for? Three years. And you had a good relationship? Very much so. Sweet guy, right?

Sweet guy. What I loved about Gary was like a brilliant comedian. Yeah. I mean, a genius. Yeah. But a good man. Yeah. And that's not always the case.

Yeah. And you knew Gary, I take it. A little bit. A little bit. Yeah. Not a lot. I mean, I talked to him in here i can't say i knew him he was amazing i mean i i he really inspired me to to do stand up in a way

because he he took on it took it on late he didn't start off that way and and what i loved about the way he worked was he was always working like when we would do the show he was never satisfied he was always working. Like when we would do the show, he was never satisfied. He was always thinking about a better line, a better way to attack this right up until they called action. And even when we were performing, he would still go,

I know there's something better here. Yeah. And I really admired that. And I also admired the fact that he didn't care where a suggestion came from. I wouldn't say he was egoless. Yeah.

But he didn't care if it was a writer or an actor or a grip. Yeah. He didn't care. Yeah. If it served the funny. If it served the funny. Yeah. Yeah.

I think he's one of the greatest comic minds I've ever come in contact with. And also one of the great people. Yeah. So are you, my friend. Oh, I thought it was evil and impish. Yeah, but aren't we all? Yeah. Well, comedians are a little evil.

Yeah, you got to have a little. You ride the line. Because you want to stir shit up. Yeah. But that's a good thing. It's not evil. It's sort of like it's just a portal into the shadow. Well, don't you think that's our job?

Yes. To bring things out of the darkness. A little bit. Into the light. Yeah, it's just a portal into the shadow well don't you think that's our job yes to bring things out of the darkness a little bit into the light yeah it's not exclusively our job but it's nice if you can get some of that in well what else is there i'll tell you what the only else there is giving people a little relief well exactly sure so like holy prostitutes there you go that's the name of your new show i like that holy prostitute you keep it okay alright great talking to you buddy nice to talk to you

that was me and Scott so check him out if he's in your town with his character Buddy Cole doing the new Buddy monologues and also look for Buddy Cole's autobiography Buddy monologues. And also look for Buddy Cole's autobiography, Buddy Babylon. And it was a pleasure to talk to Scott. This is me signing off after having a great vacation and five-city European tour. I'll talk to you back in the States.

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