WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 919 - Tom Papa

Episode Date: May 27, 2018

Tom Papa got the comedy bug early in life but his unconventional path went from football to live theater to standup. Once Tom started writing jokes while working as a security guard, there was no turning back. Tom talks with Marc about the competitive '90s comedy scene, his close friendship with the late Greg Giraldo, his public failure with The Marriage Ref, his new gig on public radio, and the two people who took a chance on him and helped shape his life and career: Jerry Seinfeld and Steven Soderbergh. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated

category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die we control nothing beyond that

an epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel to show your true heart is to risk your life when I die here you'll never leave

Japan alive FX's Shogun a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney Plus 18 plus subscription required T's and C's apply.

Lock the gates! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck nicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome to it. How's it going with you fuck, Knicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF.

Welcome to it. How's it going with you? You all right? What's happening? You freaking out? I'm not freaking out today. I'm happy to be back home. Tom Papa is on the show today.

Tom is a comedian I've known for a long time. Started a few years after me, but I've known him forever. We've never sat down and talked in here. I've had, you know, kind kind of i projected a lot of stuff onto tom in the past i just never could get a handle on where the fuck he was coming from and i kind of need a handle on where the fuck you're coming from if i'm gonna engage with you more than a few times so i decided a few things about him that weren't true and i was kind of an asshole to him a few times but uh he's one of those guys that just kind of knew who I was and

knew the kind of person I was, and it didn't really affect him that deeply. It kind of rolled off him. There are people that have dealt with me over the years that they see me coming, and they're like, all right, you know, gird her up. You're going to have to deal with this guy, this guy whose brain is on fire, and he's got to say something horrible to me in a few minutes. But it didn't really have an effect on him, and I was got to say something horrible to me in a few minutes but uh it didn't really have an effect on him and i was happy to get to know him and make a mild amends in a couple

places but he's a great guy great comic and we had a nice conversation you'll hear that momentarily thank you all for some of the nice emails about the neil brennan episode we got down to psychological spiritual and emotional brass tacks kind of hashed it out sometimes that's good it was very focused it had an agenda in a lot of ways and i think we covered a lot of turf a lot of ground a lot of a a lot of the inner landscape and i got a couple emails from people who were like man i never thought about that and you just shook something loose forever one guy wrote an email where the hell is that subject line neil brennan that's all mark your interview with neil was beautiful great job it never occurred to me that my parents never really had the capacity to love or be loved you guys answered a lot of questions that have had

me puzzled for decades my sincere thanks john decades it's interesting when something shakes like that when the lens just shifts when just one little thing is thrown into the head and everything changes about how you saw who you were how you came to where you are it's a it's a very thrilling thing when it sticks you know what i mean unfortunately having the brain open to that kind of thing, a lot of things could be thrown in there that stick that are just fucking terrible and make you do terrible things and, you know, perceive reality as something completely other than what it is and take action in relation to that delusion. So be wary of those. But if something just shakes something loose and makes things a little easier for you to understand for yourself and your heart, good, great, glad to help out. So I'm back in the garage, the new garage. And I got to tell you, folks, those of you who are concerned, this place is going to be great.

I don't even know why, really. I mean, it's a different space. It's filled differently. It's shaped differently. Had some sound issues that are working themselves out. But again, it's a podcast. I don't need a soundproof room. But there's something about this space that's different than the other space. The other space, as great as it was, it was cozy. It absorbed sound nicely. It was cluttered on the floor, on the walls, the ceiling. It was smaller, but there was a lot going on. But there's something that's happening here. There's a focus that's happening in here. The vibe is, we're here to do this. We're here to talk. We're here to have

this experience where we talk to each other. There's not a lot of distractions. There's not a lot of chaos on the margins. And there's just something about the way i'm focusing in here and uh and the way the guest is is is sort of focusing where the conversations are longer and they seem like they could go on even longer than they they have been i'm doing long talks in here i i don't know if it's something more relaxing here or there's something more in here. I don't know if it's something more relaxing here or there's something more grounded about this space. I mean, the old space was just a history of me and my chaos and things I was holding on to. This is maybe just an evolution or maybe it just feels a little more grounded in here and I'm fucking digging it. So I'm back. I'm back from Birmingham. And I think I can tell you what was happening, if you didn't assume or figure it out. I was shooting a little movie. We shot it out in like two weeks. Lynn Shelton directed. She wrote it with Mike O'Brien. Funny guy, but it's sort of a different type of movie for Lynn. Certainly a different type of movie for me. It was an odd story that required the South as a backdrop.

There was a lot of interesting characters. It was a completely improvised movie that featured me, Michaela Watkins, Jillian Bell, John Bass, Toby Huss came down and shot a bit, Tim Paul, Whit Thomas, a comedian that I had met but didn't remember, and Dan Bachdahl. Is that how you pronounce his last name? Bachdahl, I think.

You might know him from Veep. Very funny guy. It was just sort of like this kind of insane improvisational kind of a comedy, but it kind of rings a little true. I mean, it's an odd little film, and it was shot with a lot of sweat a lot of sweat and angst not too much angst but i get uncomfortable in humidity and when you got to shoot a scene in the in the back of a truck uh for 12 hours in a marginally air-conditioned space and you just you feel you just kind of coated with a glaze of fucking damp sweat the whole time.

It's, you know, granted, all right, it's not The Revenant. You know, I'm not, you know, I'm not in the Arctic or in the wilderness. I'm not eating raw liver to make sure there's authenticity to the part. But it's a little uncomfortable. But all in all, it was a pretty great time and a pretty interesting movie. It's a little uncomfortable. But all in all, it was a pretty great time and a pretty interesting movie. And I'm looking forward to seeing what Lin cobbles together out of the footage we shot, man.

I mean, fuck. A lot of stuff going on. And when he improvised a movie, it was pretty awesome. It's a lot different than, okay, where do I stand and say my line and get behind that line? It's sort of like, you got to be all in for this shit. I was working with geniuses. Fucking geniuses the lot of them every one of them dan jillian john tim toby wit mckayla who i've worked with before fucking genius but it's a good experience and now uh now that i'm back and I'm sort of still working on my new house and I've decided to do a sugar detox because I'm carrying a lot of the South with me right now, just above

my pants, just above the belt line. I feel a little bit of the South hanging over, just a bit of the South on the sides, spilling over my belt line a bit. And not that I don't love the south my love for the south doesn't need to be expressed through love handles you dig man all right we on the same page also i don't want to neglect or forget to uh give a shout out to the entire crew of Sword of Trust. Did I even mention the name of the movie? That's the name of the movie, Sword of Trust, and everybody worked on it from top to bottom.

It was just a pleasure, and I realized, man, you know, if you like doing something, a lot of times, maybe this is just me, when you do it for work, you may forget that you like it, even though you like it, and that's why you do the work. So try to remember when you're doing something you like to continue liking it if you're fortunate enough to do something you like for a living. Does that make sense? When things become a job, you risk the possibility that you will

not like it anymore because it's a job but try to remember that you liked doing the job and it's what you do or else you get into a fucking dark hole or else you're just a complaining asshole or else you're just someone who's incapable of having a good time a b or c uh all of the above you know what i'm saying so here's the other thing i wanted to tell you because i i don't know i don't know that it's important but uh i've uh i've become i've become obsessed. You know when you have an album for years, you know an album or it's just there and everyone amasses so much music

that you forget to focus in on everything because you've got thousands of things. But I was on the plane and I wanted to have stuff on my phone. I was just picking things at random and I'd pick Planet Waves by Bob Dylan, a record that I haven't paid enough attention to or much attention to in years, even if I process it then. I don't know that I really did.

Whatever the case, my point is, is out of nowhere, you know, after years, you know, that's just become my favorite Bob Dylan record. And I don't know. I don't know. It's not even a matter of missing it. It's just a matter of sometimes, and I've said this before, you have artists that their stuff just grows with you or it sneaks up on you or takes on a different meaning. As you get older, it just morphs along with you. It sort of shape shifts or it evolves or it becomes something different for you as you become older or evolve or regress or whatever when music isn't limited to nostalgia and you give it some space again you kind of you can be blown away and I've gotten obsessed with Planet Waves

to the point where I'm amassing copies of the vinyl I went out and bought two yesterday I'm gonna go pick another one up today and I'll probably get as many as I can then it's not an expensive record people don't seem to give a fuck about the record. I bought a sealed copy of it from 74, and it was $10. But this is an album that he made around 73, 74, I think, with the band. I didn't realize that Dylan had only done two records with the band, and a live one, and The Last Waltz, and fucking miraculous record. The space that that band finds amongst each other

to just fill together in some sort of strange, unified beauty that it just doesn't happen that often. And Dylan, right at that moment, it was just complete symbiosis of perfectly American music. And it was just, Iiosis of perfectly American music. And it was just, I don't know, man. I can't stop listening to fucking Planet Waves by Bob Dylan. Maybe you should give it a try.

Maybe you'll get excited too. But just listen to that band and listen to where they're at and listen to fucking Levon and Rick and Richard and Robbie and Garth. And just, I mean, wow. Danko and Helm, man. That fucking rhythm section. God damn it. Anyway, that's what's going on with me. Anyway, Tom Papa, his new book,

Your Dad Stole My Rake and Other Family Dilemmas, is now available for pre-order. It comes out June 5th. Had a lovely talk here in the new garage with Tom. And this is, this is. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls.

Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die.

We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. Will I die here? You'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun. A new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+.

18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. That's it. Zit. We didn't start out together. You started later than me, right? I started in 93. Right, later, right. Yeah.

Because I remember seeing you. I remember for some reason, I didn't know what to make of you. I know you didn't. Is that true? You mean you could feel that? Yeah, 100%. What do you think it was? Well, nobody, I don't think anybody that did stand up in the beginning in New York didn't have a Marc Maron litmus test. You know, you run into people yeah there's some people you run into and you're like that guy's size was he's sizing me up and he's not telling me what he thinks you know you just

appeared out of nowhere you looked kind of you know conservative ish or something uh you know you were i can't remember how you struck me. Like, I didn't know what to make of you. And I just remember you, you know, I think you were a little heavier. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. And you kind of hung around. And I remember seeing you at Caroline's.

And then, you know, I remember, I just didn't, I don't know why I never could figure out, like, who you were. Yeah. That's the thing. It's sort of like, I don't know if you were playing your cards close what you, who you were. Yeah. That's the thing. It's sort of like, I don't know if you were playing your cards close to your chest or maybe you're, you're just a, that guy. Yeah.

As time goes on, I realized you're kind of that guy. It's interesting because, uh, I literally would think that about you. I literally, I'm honest. I would think he doesn't know who I am.

Did that affect you in any way? Like maybe I should, uh, do, I mean, I carried you around a little bit not too much though because you seemed so uh balled up with yourself yeah that that it wasn't like i never like i knew maybe i wasn't cool enough in your eyes maybe there was like who is this guy kind of a vibe but i't carry you, like the weight of you around like some other people. Yeah, I don't know.

Yeah, I guess some people did. You know, it turns out that I was just an aggravated, self-involved person. What are you looking surprised about? Yeah, because you were, you know, you would take shots once in a while for sure. And other guys? I told you, no no like just interacting with you it'd be like you know

oh yeah what did you tell me I can't remember it's like hanging out with like a like a like a pet that you don't

really know yeah like this one's a little wild you're like oh this is cool he's letting me scratch behind his ears he just bit my finger

why'd he do that and then he's gotten out the back door what was the story you told me I remember it's not a good one it's not a great story i know it doesn't make me look good that doesn't make either of us look

that great no hey we were fine but it was uh it was just one of those moments i got a uh early tv pilot yeah on uh it's one of these stories on mbc and uh it was very very early yeah and i ran into you out here it's the first time time we were in the hallway of the improv. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I came off stage and you're the only one in the hallway and you said something like, so what's this? What's going on? And I said, you know, doing this pilot, doing this TV show.

Oh. I said, why? Does that bother you? You said, no, I mean mean it makes sense that you're doing it I just I just don't think you deserve it but it made me laugh it you made me laugh the way Kevin Brennan would make me laugh right right like some people would be like f that guy what right I always took it as it was yeah it's you but i i kind of remember that and i remember like because that that's a a kind of interesting part of who i was then was that

there were there were certain moments where i would choose to say something awful yeah i mean there's no way to interpret that as like it's not a coded thing you're not like what does that mean no subtlety no no subtlety at all no but i i clearly meant to you know just be like fuck you right exactly like right to your face yeah i don't have it for no reason you've got a nibble i haven't gotten the nibble right screw you but like i it was it was it was a build-up of of this sort of like not being able to get a handle on on your personality or understand you know like you, you were one of those guys in my mind. It's like, what is he doing?

Like, how did people get a sense of that guy? You know, and I don't even know if I really was paying attention to your act at that time. You know, and it wasn't until not too long ago that I just started paying attention to this sort of long form kind of accessible, but very well crafted shit you were doing. Right. And I don't know if you were doing that at the beginning. I can't remember.

No. There was just always something. I took your personality at that time, which is not that different than it is now, as sort of like glib and artificial. Right. And I don't, you're just kind of like, hi, how's everyone doing? I'm like, what the fuck is he doing? Why is he being so friendly?

Yeah, well, I mean, I think it's genuinely who you are. Yeah. It took till like, you know, last year for me to realize it. Yeah. Well, in the beginning, it's just, you know, there was no, there was no craft. You know, I think. No, I think. I think Attell said to me early on, like, yeah, eight years.

Like he put eight years in my head that that's when you really start to kind of figure it out. Well, that's what I remembered about you is that you were one of those guys. And, you know, and Geraldo, too, I think. You guys must have started at the same time-ish. Exactly the same time. Right. Well, he started, like, a little before. My first time on stage was me and him in a bringer show at the New York Comedy Club.

No kidding. Upstairs from that cowboy bar at the time. And it was June 12, 1993. Hold kidding. Upstairs from that cowboy bar at the time. And it was June 12th, 1993. Hold on. It was like a Western bar downstairs. Which New York Comedy Club was that? It was upstairs. Holy fuck.

I don't even know if I remember that one. A small spot. I brought five friends, and there was probably seven people in the audience. Including your seven? Including my five. Your five? So five of the seven were yours? Yes. Yes including my five year five so five of the

seven were yours yes yes and it's at like five in the afternoon like in june yeah you know so it's like it's light out it's horrible people are sweating new jersey at three and uh i walk in and there is a very uh extremely nervous clean shaven uh sweaty greg giraldo yeah hey man what's going on yeah you're so nice yeah and uh i did my first spot and then greg and i just that was it we were like uh like brothers he was just so great yeah i kind of connect you two he was he was a little pudgier than he was he was a little doughier and i would do shows with with him and Gaffigan. That was kind of the- He started the same time you too? Yeah.

I think him and Greg had started just like six months before I did. What year is this? 1993. Really? June 12th, 1993. Right. So you guys came in. That's right.

I remember- When did you start? Gaffigan seemed more albino-ish then. Yes. Didn't he? Yes, completely. Like he was almost freakish and you're like i think it was because of the glasses yeah because he doesn't wear them anymore and that's the only because he can't look that much different but i think he used to wear those frames and

somehow or another you'd see him you're like what the fuck is with that it's like albino and he in his act he had the thing like that second voice thing. Yeah, like the Kevin Meany thing? Yeah. What's he doing? What's he doing? But he didn't have the other part of just being Jim. Right. So he would just be this big albino guy walking back on stage going,

boochie, boochie, boochie, making these weird noises. And I was like, what's going to happen to that guy? Where's that going? Yeah. And he was like an ex-football player he was bigger he was heavier than two yeah yeah i don't know why that's a the theme i know they were all everybody everyone was fatter then yeah but then i think that's what i remember is that you and and giraldo specifically just hanging around sponging the energy you know what i mean like

taking it all like completely we just could could not believe that we were doing it. We just could not believe that. And the crazy thing about stand-up that I realized, because I had acted in school and I was like, maybe I'll try and get parts, but I always had wanted to be a comedian. And the first time I did stand-up, it was like, oh, this is like a backdoor into...

You're that guy. Yeah, I don't have to get hired to get on stage. I can get on stage. And Jon Stewart and Grace Butler. Brett. Brett Butler. Brett Butler, whose show is Grace. Yeah, Grace Hunter.

I was hosting, and they were on the show. And I was like, this is amazing. Like, I could not believe you were around these people. Like, you could share the stage with them. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Greg. And I quit for, I did it for like a year and then quit for how long for like um probably like eight months so let's go back then so you know you you're the real desire was to be an actor

i mean you know ultimately coming out i won't know i wanted to be a stand-up as a kid like from the time i was where'd you grow up in new jersey yeah what part of new jersey northern new jersey do you feel like i'm from new jersey no i was kid. Where'd you grow up? In New Jersey. Yeah, what part of New Jersey? Northern New Jersey. Do you feel like I'm from New Jersey? No. I was born in New Jersey. You were? First six years of my life, New Jersey.

Where? Pompton Lakes. Oh, Pompton Lakes. Morris County. Yeah, it's not that far. No, it's not far from you, right? Yeah. No, you have a little Jersey.

Oh yeah, I'm genetically Jersey all the way through. Yeah. Both my parents, Jersey. Jersey City, Pompton Lakes. Yeah, Jersey City was my mother. Oh really? Yeah, as a kid. Yeah, yeah.

What kind of background are you? Italian and one German. German and Italian? Yeah, my one grandfather was German, the other three Italian. Oh, yeah? Mostly Italian. Mostly Italian. I feel Italian. I don't feel German. What town? Woodcliffe Lake, Park Ridge, Montvale. Oh, yeah? Up there. Nice. The border of New York and New Jersey Jersey's pretty I've grown I Jersey's nice I don't I the more I think about it the more I grow like I remember going visiting from New Mexico to see the grandparents and aunts and uncles yeah and in the summer you get the big tomatoes yeah and it was like almost like hazy from the humidity yeah it's so very lush so green I know incredibly green yeah And the beautiful beach.

It's a pretty state. It's really nice. The problem is people come into Newark Airport, and you drive on that turnpike at that same time of year, and the sky is orange. Yeah, Newark, Elizabeth, Patterson is not great. I mean, there's definitely areas in Jersey that are definitely rough. I know. But as a kid, I could see the Empire State Building from my little desk.

Oh, really? You could see it in the distance. Yeah. And I just wanted to be a comedian. I always wanted to be a comedian. Why? And then when I went to school, I was very funny as a kid. Yeah.

And then I listened to comedy albums. I had this one week I listened to Let's Get Small with my friend's older friends. They turned you on to it? I had no idea that he sings Grandpa Bought a Rubber. I had no idea what a rubber was. But I saw all the older kids laughing. I was like, wait, this is a job? And then I went to my friend Joe's house later in the week.

And his father had given him Class Clown. Oh, yeah. And we sat in his basement shit piss fuck cunt cocksucker motherfucker and tits yeah I was like alright

I'm funny these guys make a living out of this and that just started the whole like just started my thinking

non stop thinking so and so passed an entire cheese sandwich through his nose sister so and so thought it was a miracle yeah

so crazy just the cover him just like this hippie like yeah with the fingers up his nose it's like yeah so i just you know as a funny kid and i just want to do that but then when i'm i was in college i was uh acting i just started acting i played football my whole high school. Really? You were kind of like that. I wasn't an arty kid. Sort of Gaffigan, right? Yeah, Gaffigan played. Really? You played football? Yeah. My father was big football guy, big time football guy. So you're a sports fan now? I'm a baseball fan now. Oh yeah? Yeah. Like a lot? Like you look forward to it? I really love watching. Is it happening now? Yankees, yeah. Is it happening? It's happening right now. Yeah?

So you watch the games? I watch games. I keep them on. I like, this is my level. I like that I can read while watching a game. Because you just listen and we hear the clack of the bat. Yeah. Hey! Totally.

I can't really focus on basketball. But we hear that clack. You're like, oh! Hey! Ooh! I really love that. I love like you could sit with a paper and watch it what position i was a fullback i ran but i started in kindergarten yeah and uh my father that was like my connection with my father like we so you had i would work out started in

kindergarten yeah you had a connection i did all the way yeah you have siblings he's a tough guy yeah uh two younger sisters oh so you were it was on you yeah it was all me all me all the time and by the time i got to high school i was like i am you know enough of this i'm tired of wearing pads and i went to rider college in new jersey but your dad though he he was a big guy he was a big yeah forearm still around yeah yeah i call him the tank. He's got these forearms. Yeah? Just like you would like him. He's a no bullshit guy.

Tough. Is he Italian? Approachable. Yeah. Is he the full Italian? Sicilian. Yeah? Yeah.

His parents are both, yeah, Sicilian. And what did he do? He was in sales for early internet communications companies. But he did very well. He came from nothing, eight brothers and six brothers and sisters, no money, worked his way up, did this sales thing, made good money doing it, hated it. He had these sideburns, and he would go to these conferences, and he'd put up perverted slideshows because he thought it was funny. And he'd put up perverted slideshows

because he thought it was funny. And he's not a funny guy, really. But there was a rebel. He rode motorcycles. Oh, yeah? He was not a corporate guy, but he needed to make money for his family and did that. But I always got the sense he wants out.

Oh, really? Yeah, he wants out. Was he angry? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. He's really? Yeah, he wants out. Was he angry? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. He's a very sweet, complex guy. Like, very sweet, but then the anger would, boom.

Right away? Come up, yeah. Yeah? In the house? In the house. Yeah. Outside. Outside the house.

At restaurants. At restaurants. In the car. Yeah, like, you didn't mess. You did not mess. was like when they when you was there a beat were you like oh no it was when i'm the the phrase is i'm gonna tell your father or your father's is almost home yeah horrible oh no yeah yeah yeah you guys get along now yeah yeah yeah what about your mom? She was funny.

Yeah. She's still funny. Yeah. You got to be when you're living with a monster. Yeah. Yeah. Intense guy. And they met in high school.

Uh-huh. And he's very quiet and stuff. And she was a goofball. Doing voices. Oh, really? Imitating everybody from our life. She was fun. And her father was very funny.

My grandfather. Did they ever do anything storytellers very very much like could light up the room kind of oh yeah capture everybody yeah what'd your mom do when you're growing up she uh she raised us and then went back to school and uh she got her degree while we were going through like junior high and high school and what then she ran an advertising company, a small ad agency. So she got you guys out of the way and then, you know. Yeah, she kept doing it.

She always had a little eye on, like there was like feminist stuff going on and she was, she's very kind of sweet, soft spoken, but she was always like thinking about feminist stuff and wanted her own business and got her own business. Advertising's kind of creative. It is. Yeah. It is.

They together still? She could write. She's a writer. Yeah? Yeah. She could tell stories.'s kind of creative. It is. Yeah. It is. They together still? She can write. She's a writer. Yeah? Yeah. She can tell stories. Yeah. Well, advertising requires writing.

Yeah, but they still live together. Then you start doing like your clients' nursing homes and stuff. Yeah, you can't get too funny. You're right. It can't be too creative. You're almost dead. Yeah. Are they still married?

Yeah. Oh. In their 70s, married, still taking motorcycle trips. Really? Yeah. So they ride together or she gets in a little thing? She gets on the back. Oh, she does?

Yeah. Oh, that's sweet. They've done the whole, all of Europe, all of the US. Really? Yeah. Oh, man, that's kind of nice. Yeah, it's kind of cool. Like Harley, what's your, what kind of bike?

Harley's, he's all Harley's. All Harley's. Does he hang around with a bunch of other old guys who ride Harley's? Yeah, yeah. And he would go on this trip in June every year. Yeah. And I started riding after college. You ride?

I did, yeah. No more? No. Out here with kids, a career. Scary. Yeah, scary. So is that something else that you and Geraldo bonded over? Yes.

Geraldo and I used to, we had bikes in the city at the same time. I remember. And we would go park them. That was the first time we could easily get from the strip to the cellar on the bike because i remember it was such a shit show to get down there oh yeah because you can spend and you had like you know half hour between spots and you had to like traverse the entire expanse of the vertical of new york yeah you know to get from bleaker to fucking, you know, like 90, what is it? Oh, no.

No, like 76. 76 on the east side, right? Yeah, on like 2nd Avenue. It was like, there's no trains going to help you. If you had to go to stand-up New York, that's where I get 95th or something. Where the hell was stand-up? That was 78th and Broadway. Oh, but over. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But to the seller, and you know, we had no money. We needed that $10 you got for your spot. We couldn't have paid for a cab. Right. $25 cab. So you guys had both that bike. We had motorcycles.. We needed that $10 you got for your spot. We couldn't have paid for a cab. Right. $25 cab. So you guys had both that bike. So we got motorcycles and it was the coolest. We could just cruise down and-

Would you ride together on these separate bikes? Once in a while. Yeah. But normally, you know how you're running spots. Louie had one too for a while. We just meet up. Louie had one and then he fucking got in that horrible accident. It's usually what happens to people, why they quit riding.

You're like, maybe I don't want to be in a wheelchair fucking dribbling. I know. As my kids get older. Yeah. Before the kids thing, it was when my, I started getting,

you know, a career as a standup and I was like, I don't want to limp on the stage. I don't want to have to limp. Like Jimmy Schubert? Like a cane. Schubert's a motorcycle limp.

Oh yeah? Yeah. Yeah. I heard he got it fixed. I don't know. Yeah. Do you know Jimmy? A little bit. Yeah. yeah? Yeah. I heard he got it fixed. I don't know. Yeah. Do you know, Jimmy? A little bit. Yeah.

A little bit. I heard he got it fixed. Yeah. Yeah. Motorcycles are rough. All right. So your dad, they go on June. So I would do those trips with him all the time.

And you had a Harley too? No. Everyone was Harleys. And I couldn't afford a Harley. So I bought a Yamaha Virago. It's a Japanese bike that looks like a Harley. So it's a road bike. It's a road bike, yeah.

Oh, that's nice. It was like a cruiser. It looked cool. It was good. And they would bust my balls. But they broke down every trip. They would break down. The Harleys?

Yeah. And people would come up from Tennessee and be like, why are you letting this guy ride with you? I'm sitting there on my little Honda. That's still riding. My Yamaha. The one that's not broken. That's what my line was.

Somebody's got to go for parts. But it was cool. And I kind of feel like that's, my father's still going and we don't, I don't ride anymore. And I know he really wants me to. Like, it's kind of the reverse father-son thing. But don't you, isn't there like, isn't there, is that, like, I would be terrified, you know,

I'm terrified to walk on a sidewalk with people texting and, you know, you know what I mean? Like, all it takes is some guy to just like go over three feet. Oh, I know. And then, you know. I know. But it seems like highway riding, you know, once you get out in it is a little safer. Yeah, and country roads. You know, you know, he's been doing it so long

i just i just can't now you know but i feel like that would be a cool thing he really wants me to we had football for a long time that we had bikes for a long time and uh now we just talk on the phone right i guess that's what happens yeah but but all right so so you're in jersey yeah and you go to college and you're acting in what? Just plays. Are you taking it seriously? I am taking it. I'm totally taking it seriously.

Are you studying theater? I'm studying theater. That's what you're majoring in? No, I'm majoring in communications, but I go to Rider because they have no football program. They were banned from football. They cheated. They did something. No one can pressure me.

Not even me out of guilt can do it. A hundred percent. Right. And I knew they had a theater department. Yeah. And I said, I'll go there. And I started studying. I had these really good teachers and I was in all the plays and I just kept, I just loved

it. Everything else was just fell aside. Yeah. Like what kind of plays? I did All My Sons. I did Dracula. I did Equus. Really?

That's heavy. It was heavy. Did you play the kid or the doctor I played the doctor a 19 year old an 18 year old kid imitating Richard Burton

yeah trying to pretend that I smoke yeah it was you know but I learned a lot and I love but more than

more than like learning how to act it was that I became confident that this could i could do live this lifestyle on stage somehow somehow yeah growing up with sales people and all this other people in my life and no one in the arts yeah i just remember i remember like at a uh we had rehearsal for this play it was like dress rehearsals coming down to the thing. And we lived off campus.

My friends and I had this house. And they were having this great big party that they were planning. And I was at the Wawa after rehearsal, the 7-Eleven, getting a sandwich, knowing that the party was going on. But kind of in my head going over my lines,

I'd just gotten out of rehearsal, and there was no rush in me to get to the party was going on yeah but no like kind of in my head going over my lines i just gotten out of rehearsal and there was no rush to me in me to get to the party yeah i remember standing in that wawa thinking this is what it is to be an actor this is what it is to be in the art somehow right i have no i just getting my sandwich by myself thinking about my my lines. Yeah. And that moment was like. And not wanting to go to the party. And I'll get there, whatever. Yeah. But that's also what makes you a comic. You're like, you're not like, I got to get to the party.

You're like, this is good. I got my thing. Yeah. I'm going to eat my food. And that's that. That's right. That's a very big moment, you know, because you realize, no, they're chasing something, but I found something.

Right. It's kind of how I felt. Yeah. Did you graduate? I did yeah I graduated and I went on one interview for in an ad agency yeah at your mom's and she didn't hire you no I actually ended up working for her oh really after this yeah right when I graduate cuz I had no money yeah I went on an interview because I figured I'll go to New York and be in advertising that was the thing I was yeah maybe i was supposed to do and i went and i met with a

guy in a cubicle he's there in his suspenders and he's miserable and he's asking me mean questions and i'm in a wool suit in the summer like in the in the heat and i'm like what what is this yeah like this is what you know i love new york but this isn't what I want to. And I went home. I went back to my house. I had to get to rehearsal. I drove, you know, it's down by Princeton, so you drive two hours, whatever, to took this suit off, put my Converse on, and walked across the parking lot to rehearsal. And I was like, there is no way I'm working. There's no way I'm working.

I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. What was the interview for? Bozell Advertising. Oh. That was one of the questions he asked me. So do you want to do account or do you want to do creative? And I was like, I don't know.

What is it? I don't know what it is. Well, you don't know. You're going to have to know that if you're going to interview. Oh, fuck you. No, I don't. Or I just don't come into your industry at all and gonna have to know that if you're gonna interview oh fuck you no i don't or i just don't come into your industry at all and never have to learn it he was right though kind of yeah if you're serious you should know the different departments yeah like maybe what you

kind of want to do yeah you should shed advertising you shouldn't sit in there probably a little high wasting his time sweating and you're in your bad suit obviously sending signals that you don't want to talk to him you come you just came into interview so you could throw shade at the fucking guy giving the interview teach him a lesson right exactly you little arrogant long-haired guy so you did end up working for your mom i did i worked for her um until i could make enough money doing standup. So, okay. So you go back and then you're, you're, you're doing shows in college. And then like, how do you get started with the standup?

Well, I came out of, I came out of, uh, I came out of school and I was like, I auditioned for the Rutgers program, Mason Gross graduate program for acting. Oh, really? Yeah, and I didn't get it. I didn't get in. And I was like, well, I'll just get close to New York and I'll start auditioning, I guess. And I went into the city and I don't think I even auditioned. I didn't even have an act.

No agent. I never got there. It's so weird. It's saying you approach it the same way you approach the advertising agency. I guess I'll just look in the paper. Someone will tell me what to do or where to go. It's so weird. It's saying the approach is the same way you approach the advertising agency. I guess I'll just look in the paper. Someone will tell me what to do or where to go. That's what happened. I got backstage.

I got the Village Voice. And I looked in the Village Voice. And there was an ad for the New York Comedy Club. If you could have an open mic bringer show situation. I looked it up. And I was like, well, this is a phone call. Like, I don't need an agent. I just called the number

and they said, okay, we have a show. You got to bring three friends or whatever. They could sit in the audience and we have an opening June 12th and I hung up the phone

and I was like shaking. Like, I'm going to be on stage in New York City telling jokes. And you probably talked to, you actually talked to Al Martin. It was probably Al Martin

who answered the phone. Al Martin and Kerry Hoffman, the people that unleashed the bringer show on the culture of show business. It's their fault. Kerry Hoffman, the funniest pipe fitter in New York contest. The funniest

dentist in New York contest. Bring nine friends and you can make a comedy record and we're gonna charge them 75 each for drinks oh so awful but uh so you had your date so i had my date and uh i was shaking i was shaking like a leaf really and i started writing jokes that weird excitement yeah like oh man this is happening. Because I started, even in college, I had this job as a security guard where I would sit in my car outside of a- You had a job as a security guard? Yeah.

I would sit in my car in a housing development in the winter and just sit there. Nothing happened. It's the middle of like Windsor, New Jersey. No foul play is happening here, but they needed a security. So I would just sit there with a sandwich and my radio and I ran a heater and I would run a extension cord from one of the homes into my car and keep it warm and eat my tuna hero and just sit there for hours. And that's where you wrote?

And that's where I started writing. I started writing and recording. I would write jokes because I'm sitting there talking to myself. This is the job you were doing when you made the call to stand up New York? No, this is before I graduated. This is like junior year of college. So you just were writing jokes because you hadn't done a gig yet? I hadn't done a gig yet, no.

Oh, really? I'd never, no. But you knew you wanted to, so that's where you would write jokes. I would write jokes, and then I would come back and play the tape for my friends, and they thought it was awful. They thought like, what are you, you're going crazy

in your car by yourself. I'm like, but this part's funny. They're like, come on. You couldn't tell them the jokes? Let's go to a party. Let's go get high.

No, because I was recording it. I was getting them to, I don't know what I was doing. I had no idea. You had to order up of you talking to yourself in a car?

Yeah. I'd listen back. That's pretty good. You're your own audience. Yeah. You're just listen back that's pretty good your own audience yeah you're just playing that's like a psycho like by myself yeah and uh yeah so i just recorded some so i but i was kind of like writing jokes so even though i hadn't performed before that june 12th show i was i knew i needed jokes i knew i had to kind of come in you knew that you knew that much about this job that yes I had never been to a comedy club but but I watched them on tv right and you're like apparently for this job you got to be prepared with something to say when you get to the job yeah

you should probably yeah yeah so which friends did you bring that I know uh I brought my uh I brought my friend uh Jason yeah and uh who's a madman, and the girl I was living with, Janine, and a couple other friends. And they sat in the audience, and I did my little jokes. And, you know, you quickly, what I didn't know is that you run out of jokes so quick. Yeah, you're up there about a minute or two. Yeah, a minute or two and I'm out. Yeah, that's it. That's all I prepared for.

I got one really good laugh off of my one joke, and then I don't remember the others, and then started sweating and got out of there. Yeah. Talked to Geraldo. Yeah, was he there? Watched Geraldo do his thing. And Geraldo had his,

do you remember his joke about Catholics and Protestants, kneel, sit, stand? Uh-uh. He had this funny joke about what's the difference between. Yeah. Kneel, it's just the one kneels and one don't. Yeah, yeah. And then you do the Irish guy.

These kneeling bastards, kneel, sit, stand, kneel, sit, stand. And then it starts the whole war. And I was like, wow, this guy's a genius. Yeah, yeah. He was kind of a very bright guy. He was really bright. Super smart. Yeah, yeah.

Too smart in a way. Yeah. His head was a little too busy. He was a lawyer. Harvard Law. Yeah. Yeah. So sad, that guy.

So sad. He would have been... His, like... I always thought that he would be our kind of uh you know john stewart bill mark yeah the thing yeah and like if you think of the timing yeah like when stewart leaves and then you have this really seasoned uh hispanic comedian yeah accessible to white people yeah he could have slid right in there it seemed like it was all set up he got rerouted by his own uh by addiction yeah rerouted i had no idea no not

really not till way later like how deep in he was i just didn't know yeah i wasn't that close to him i didn't live in the same town right and by the time i heard about it i was like oh my god you know because like i remember one time I wanted to have him on and he was out here and I don't know, he's talking funny. He got loopy. Yeah, really? Well, he got paranoid and weird.

Yeah. Lack of sleep. He would just go. He would go on benders for days. Were you guys friends then? Yeah. Oh, really? No, I was tight with him the whole way and uh but as these stories always go even the people that are closest don't really

know what's going on right right and i would tell him repeatedly yeah just you know because he tried to get sober many times many times yeah and he had a couple close calls where he ended up in the hospital and i remember saying to him at one point, just, you know, you're going to crush me. That's like. Oh, if you die? If you die. Yeah. Just so you know.

Yeah. I know you've got kids and there's more people that are important, more important than I am. Yeah. But just so you know, I should go on record as saying it's going to wreck me. If you, and just to, I don't know. I didn't know how to tell him, but he, he get very, he started having friends I don't know. I didn't know how to tell him. But he got very, started having friends you don't know. They start doing things you don't know.

They do, you mean? They do. Addicts. Oh, yeah. You're like, who's that guy? The weird looking guy. Yeah. Who's the guy that you just left the club with?

He's my buddy. Yeah, that guy. They always, and that's always the guy that's there when you die and leaves. Totally. Which is what happened. Is it? Yeah. He was in New Jersey and he. Totally. Which is what happened. Is it? Yeah. He was in New Jersey and he was clean.

He was doing well. Yeah. And then he ran into some people he had partied with before. Right. And they just showed up and had stuff on them. Yeah. Yeah. And they left.

They left and he's alone in the hotel. In a coma. Yep. In New Jersey. I remember when I heard of Vinnie Brandt, right? Yeah. That's the guy who went over there, found him probably. Yeah, couldn't find him.

Went over to the hotel. And they had to break the door down, I guess. Yeah. God damn it. So you knew and you tried and you didn't. That's weird because everyone's got their own life. You don't know the scope of it. You really don't.

As much as we know, I mean, you know from really don't but you know as close as as close as you know as much as we know i mean you know from doing this show yeah you've had friends probably that are really close to you sure that you never get to ask them questions until we're sitting in this scenario right well you don't know their life i mean you know there's a community thing that we all have yeah but but you know certainly once we get old enough to have lives, you know, you got to stay on top of that. You got to stay engaged and sort of like, yeah, we socialize with them, you know, once, three times a month we go out, the kids know each other, whatever it is. Yeah. You got to stay in it. You got to. Or else, you know, like even if three months goes by and people are grownups, you're like, you did what? You killed a man? grown-ups you're like you did what you killed a man when did that you did jail time how long has it been right you know which yeah it's a good point like when whenever like people are interviewed about the killer next door yeah well of course they always say we had no idea how would we know we think over there we got busy yeah i got the dishes are piling up used to see him he

looked weird he had a weird look about him when he's out in the yard. I didn't make eye contact. I want to get to the recycling and back in the house. Yeah. We were uncomfortable, but we had no idea he was collecting heads. Right. No. Yeah. But the weird thing.

You don't know. But the illusion is, and I don't think it's an illusion. I think it's sincere. When you spend that much time, like we as comics, whoever your crew was yeah i mean you're out all night man you're i mean you know you're you're with them every night of the week your days are similar you wake up in the middle of the day because you've been out till four yeah eating and you know and doing the shows yeah and you know you see each other like every fucking day for years and you eat late at night you talk about bits you talk about women you talk about you know whatever your dreams are whatever this night, you talk about bits, you talk about women, you talk about, you know, whatever your dreams are, whatever this or that,

you talk about other comics. But that bonding, that's a real thing. So, like, you know each other. Yeah. But then, you know, all of a sudden it's like we have this assumption. And I think it's real. I think a lot of us know each other

and we know each other from around. Yeah. But, you know, you got to be part of someone's life to know their life. Totally. You can know somebody's essence. Like, I knew who you were. Yeah. Without knowing much about you. Yeah yeah like i you know you sure kind of knew what what your

vibe was but you don't really know but you see we see each other every you know you see people every week you know yeah i guess that happens real jobs too you know like yeah every day they go to work it's like that guy i don't know like i get him i don't need to talk to him right yeah so glad he doesn't work on this floor. Yeah. Yeah. And there's like this camaraderie, but also, you know. Yeah. Like it was funny even just coming here.

It's like, look at this. Yeah. After all this time. He did all right. I'm going to see. Yeah. I'm going to see Mark. You're right.

I'm pretty mad about me. And like we're both out here. Yeah. Living in this place we didn't even think about in 98. Yeah. And it's funny. Like you're almost like survivors. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's true, 98. Yeah. And it's funny. Like, you're almost like survivors. You know what I mean?

It's true, man. Yeah. You know, because you do see people fall to the wayside. You do see people die. Yeah. You do see people still struggling. And, you know, it is a survival thing, you know, and I don't, you know, and it didn't look good for me for a while, you know, so.

Yeah. No, I mean, it's, you know, you know those moments like it's so much nicer like i have friends that know uh that knew jeff garland like really early in chicago and they don't have nice things to say because they they seemed he seemed like aggressive and mean and whatever i'm like you met him when he's scratching and clawing trying to find his way yeah and then and now he's still aggressive but he hides the mean yeah but he's he's had success so like you calm down you're like okay it's gonna be okay well that's but that's a moment that's a you know he should always be grateful for i think and i and i you know i

have to you know because certainly for me and and for anybody really it was definitely hard-earned it never came easy right but there is that moment where you're like, you know, all right, I've at least, you know, achieved the ability to make a living and not worry as much. Yeah. If you're lucky, you find a groove, you find a niche, you find, you know, all of us kind of, you know, cobbled together a survival in show business. Yeah. Like, you know, the first few years, you get a deal, you do this, you're on the road. Yeah. You're not saving money, really. No, you're just getting by. Yeah. Like, you know, the first few years you get a deal, you do this, you're on the road. Yeah. You're not saving money, really.

No, you're just getting by. Yeah, and every time you had a little money, you're like, now you gotta hold on to that shit. Yeah. Because this could all go away.

You know, I saw what happened to What's-His-Name. Right. I'm not gonna fucking, I'm not gonna buy four cars and end up selling them. I'm not gonna base my life off this one good year.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, you know, that moment where you're like, oh, I'm gonna be all right. You know, like, I'm old and, you know that moment where you're like i'm gonna be all right you know like i'm old and uh you know i might not die broke right yeah it's great and it's great to see yeah i mean really and also and that frees you up i you know watching from the outside yeah this thing freed you up so i know it freed you up in a way that you could go and get

that role on glow right and also as a stand as a right yeah but i mean like there's a there's a sense of common confidence yeah yeah like that you can walk in and be like i can own this major role yeah which when you're desperate and like fighting it maybe you get in your own way yeah i think that was mostly because of my own show that i was able to do for a few years in relative obscurity. I've had a lot of big, I've done a lot of the things I've always wanted to do and in a way that no one's really paid attention to him. So is it quiet?

Yeah. I'm the same way. Technically it's on the resume. Sure. But you can't under underestimate or underplay the experience. Part of it. Like, you know,

doing my own show for four years, knowing going in the first year was going to be dicey and I didn't know how to do it yeah but i was like i've seen other guys you know you know bumble through this and the good thing for me is nobody watches the network i'm on so for four years so i was quietly learning getting a skill set how to do it and also because the podcast became successful i didn't need to do anything else i really don't so yeah you're right you know once glow came around i'm like you know like it's like at that point before it came i'm like whatever i don't give a fuck yeah honestly don't give a fuck yeah i'll take the meeting but but you had some like you know kind of major movie stuff like i'd like

to do some of the stuff you do in movies you know but let's get to that later so okay so you start you know so you're working around the city and then and then when did you get in at the Cellar? What were the hoops you had to jump through to get work in New York? You were mostly working at Carrie's Place and the comic strip? Yes, exactly. I was doing stand-up New York, the comic strip. Once in a while, Caroline's when you needed a tape. They had the tape right there comic strip had a tape too but always looked like some sort of weird

surveillance yeah that stationary fucking shot at the comic strip stage and everyone had that oh the bad lighting and yeah so brutal but it just it was so much fun you're just doing it and trying to get good and trying to just trying to get good yeah and i knew that the cellar was like i had a thing in my head like you don't go to the cellar until you are good yeah you can't sit at the you can sit one of the other tables yeah no i didn't even go i was no i just remember that movement of tables like it's a corner table yeah and then there was like two or three tables with those comics right yeah the non-corner table people it's such a it really someone asked me like a young comic asked me like so uh how did

you like how did you know you wanted to do it and it's like like to get through like all those years of i'm like you don't it just pulls. Otherwise, if you stopped at any point and said, does this make sense? Yeah. You wouldn't do it. You know, you really, if you, in your brain, you don't have any choice. No, you just go. Yeah, it's like, what do you mean? There's no evaluation.

I'm like, I'm a comedian. It's a rare thing. It's like, but not as rare as it used to be. But, you know, that's sort of like, I'm not thinking about anything else. No. It's completely consuming. Completely. You know, I quit.

Like I said, I quit for like eight months. The girl I was with, her father passed. And it was just a heady thing. And I felt like I had to make money and take care of her. And I just stopped going into the city. And Geraldo would call me at my day job every day. I'm like, what are you doing?

What are you doing? I'm like, I just got some stuff I got to do. I'll be back. He would call me every single day. Really? Every day. In that time, in that eight-month time, I gained 30 pounds. I'm playing video games with my friends, just drinking.

What are you doing for money? I'm working at my mom's advertising. Oh, that's when it happened, yeah. And I'm working there. I don't know what I'm doing. But I do know that I'm getting fat and I'm drinking beer and getting high and just doing that. And trying to convince myself that this is okay because I'm making money and we'll have a life, I guess. A zombie life.

And I remember laying on my sister's bed one day at a family party. And I said, am I funny anymore? Am I? To who? The wall? No, to her. Oh. I could always make her laugh.

Yeah. I'm like, am I even funny anymore? She goes, yeah, you're always funny. But, you know, I don't know. Are you having fun right now that's what you said yeah and i realized i've got to get back and i went back into the city and uh and that was it i was like i was literally doing the wrong thing that was your dark time making me it was making me like sick the dark time working for your mom drinking beer getting, getting high, getting fat, just sitting around playing

video games with your high school friends. High school friends. That's exactly what it was. Thinking this could be okay. Yeah, this is a life and you're with a woman. So what happened? You ended up breaking up with her? Yeah, we ended up splitting and then went back into the city and just was like, I just,

it was like a second confirmation that this is really the only thing geraldo would not stop pestering you he would not stop he would not stop and that was humbling because i've been doing it for a couple years and getting decent enough yeah and i would have to go i went back like i i could go at that point i could kill on stage yeah with whatever material i had right you took eight months off and I took eight months off and now came back and couldn't get on stage and had to go to the

Boston Comedy's sure bringer show like before like not even and Geraldo's work in the clubs yeah and Geraldo's in

and I had to go and eat shit for six months but I knew like alright I'll just get I just gotta go back to work and get

yeah get strong get back to it. But it was hard to come back even at that point. Wow. It was hard. Like you're weak. Yeah. But I knew like once I came back, that was it. And then I just, I got a gig for Doer Scotch where I was hosting basically, they're basically trying to get young people addicted to George Scott.

Sure. And they need a comedian to host and tell jokes. And I made like $700 for the week. And that's when I quit my job and jumped. Yeah. Because I had, I was like, okay. I just had in my head, I was pretty straight. Like I was like, I did have, I wasn't this.

Yeah. I was an artist like to, but I also knew I had to take care of my shit yeah you know what i mean because that was driven and drilled into me like yeah keep uh an eye on your business like you don't right don't just jump without anything so when i made that 700 i figured well that's what i it's more than i'm making doing and you knew that you could do this i can host like you You knew that, you know, you weren't going to do what I was doing. You weren't going to push the envelope in a way that people don't like you. What do you mean? Like, is your act?

No, I mean, well, yeah, sure. Like, you know, I think that it seems that your discipline around, you know, how you were going to do comedy was, you know, was likable. I mean, you weren't going to't gonna you know go up there and challenge people to like you no that part of it no but that's just who you are yeah i know that's just you know i was i guess no one really does that i'm a fucking idiot no there are a bunch of people that yeah no i don't like making people unhappy. You don't make- I don't. Making the audience work? No. Why does this guy have more of a shit together? I don't like offending them.

I make eye contact with everyone when I'm on stage. I want everyone to like me. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. Before I was a comic, I was doing that.

I just always couldn't believe when I found out that someone didn't like me. Yeah. I was shocked. How could that? Like, yeah, me. Well, not out that someone didn't like me. I was shocked. How could that? Like, yeah, me. Well, not Marin. He doesn't like anybody. Yeah, my friend literally was like, well, you know, everyone's not going to like you.

And that really came as a surprise. So, yeah, so I was always just about trying to. So you kind of built it and you started doing the jobs that we all do, doing the TV shows we all do. But then you sort of evolved, right? And you did a lot of Big Tonight Show guy, right? Yeah, I did a bunch of those. With Leno. With Leno.

A few Lettermans. A few Lettermans. Conans all the time. Conan, a lot of Conans. Yeah, a lot of Conans. It was what we did in New York. You did Conan. You get that call from Paula.

Do you have anything ready? Yeah. And she would be honest. I know. Someone fell out tomorrow, like George Clooney could not. I'm filling in for Clooney. No, we're rearranging.

But you were like, you were like, that was like, that was impressive to all of us that all of a sudden you were going in and you were a regular and sitting there talking to him. Well, I wanted to do panel,

that was always my thing growing up, like I'd see these guys do panel, it seemed to be a better way for me to work. Right. You know, cause Richard Lewis used to do it, those guys on Letterman, like Larry Miller and Jay and all those guys, you do panel, that meant you were one of the guys.

In show business, yeah. So I just like became like adept at that. Like I could go in there. I remember that. Oh I could go in there. Oh, I could go in there. It's different than a standup spot, which you sort of do have to prepare. Yeah. But like with panel, I could go in there if she called me on a day's notice with half baked jokes. Right.

With jokes that weren't full yet and that were funny enough to be conversational. Right. And just, you know. And still funnier than the other people on the show. Yeah. Yeah. You know, sometimes. Yeah.

I mean, I definitely had shit I was thinking about, stuff I was processing, because during Luna Lounge days, everything was sort of, I was halfway to jokes all the time. I had things I was working on, and then they'd kind of pressure you to really make it work,

and then I'd go on, and sometimes they wouldn't. But you did it regularly. Yeah, seven out of 10 times, though, the first thing would always fall flat, and Conan would be like, oh, here we go. I'd always fall flat, and Conan would be like, oh, here we go. I'd always say something where the audience would get nothing, and it just became a thing.

Good way to alienate him right out of the gate. In retrospect, I don't know if Smiley and him were setting me up. He's going to do that thing. We're going to just let him do this thing first. He's going to get nothing, and then he'll struggle for the rest of it. It'd be great. But you, yeah yeah i remember we were all like really yeah you knew how to sit i didn't even know how i think if you look how did he even know how to sit i'm slouching yeah if you look at me you cross your legs you had your cool boots sticking out i was

like this guy knows what he's doing oh my god my impression of me was the opposite like why am i wearing those boots how come i'm not sitting up of course i'm shopping for boots yeah but how did you like where do you think you really crossed over into because at some point you know you became a very uh you know kind of efficient headliner with you know long form bits that were very meticulously structured was it you know was it opening for seinfeld that did that that really yeah i think meeting seinfeld no joke was like i always say that was like the big break because i was doing stuff i'd had late night shots and i was doing it but i was you know you're still very confused and you don't know you know you're hanging out i'm looking at you i'm looking at

a tell you're looking at all these different people that aren't really what I am. They work differently. They're living different lives. Yeah. You know, and I'm with, I mean. Were you married yet? No, I was with Cynthia. And she was a comic.

And she was a comic. Yeah. And we just started when I met him. Yeah. I think, yeah, I think I met her for like a year. What was your maiden yeah we just started when i met him yeah i think yeah i think i met her for like what was your maiden name cory yeah cynthia cory right yeah i remember her and um you're still married yeah yeah 18 years at least a couple years of like meeting her and meeting jerry yeah really it was good because she was grounding she was no she was no bullshit yeah and uh and she came from where I came from, and we had this kind of connection.

And then meeting Jerry, just having him, first of all, to stay. How'd you meet him? At the Cellar? I was at Stand Up New York. Oh. This one week, two days in a row, I was on stage while he walked in. Yeah. Remember he was kind of circling the clubs?

Yeah, yeah. He hadn't been on stage yet, but he was checking out everything. Right, right. And he walked in two nights in a row at Stand-up new york and you can from stand-up new york you can see through the window you could see who's at the bar yeah and you can see that fucking door when they stick their head in to the right because the club is so fucking narrow and stupidly designed at the time it was so dumb people would walk in you could see everyone in the fucking room no matter how they put the lights. Everyone. You could see wavesters getting up. Everybody.

All the executives, whoever was there coming in the door, standing in the door, see them in the sound booth. It was fucking the worst. Yeah. And you're up there trying to survive. It was really, it seemed so rough. So he came in two nights in a row and I switched my material up because I saw him there. And I was like, I don't want to think I just do the same thing.

Just stupid ideas. But when I came off to the stage, he pulled me aside and said, you're really funny. And we started a conversation. And just him, Seinfeld, right off the show, just give me that confirmation. And I just stuck around him. And then at the Comedy Cell didn't all his guys were gone

the people he came up with they weren't hanging out so he knew colin yeah he didn't have friends like we had like the comic strip friends yeah they weren't comedy cellar friends he was a comic strip guy so was mark schiff and uh you know riser right right you know all those people and they'd all moved on sure you know so he's coming back and there's all these so i was like just just don't be annoying yeah don't be annoying be hang and colin colin uh was friends with him and i would sit with him and jerry yeah and it just kind of i soaked in everything because he wrote like i wrote it was a confirmation that my way of working yeah was okay yeah like that i sit and i like to write and i like to go on stage and then like rewrite it and yeah and how to and and

he wasn't really tortured he was you know what i mean he was closer to me in personality yeah and the way that he worked yeah that really at that time gave me a confirmation like i'm doing the there's validation that i'm i can work this way and i i can make it and that's interesting because i have like that sort of explains something about my reaction to you because i have the same reaction to him is that i don't have no idea who that fucking guy is right and i didn't i didn't necessarily resonate with comedy you know i understood that he was a great technician and everything right and now you know like i literally did not, I didn't watch much Seinfeld.

I was not, I didn't care about his standup. And it wasn't until I just watched that recent one where he goes back to the comic strip. Right. That I sort of got a sense of who he was. Right. And, you know, and I was right about him for me. Uh-huh. He's not my cup of tea.

Right. You know, and just like, but, you know, you got to respect his craft and his talent and he's funny, but the way he approaches it, he literally says, I don't give a shit if they know who I am or like me. I'm here to see if the joke works. Yes, he's like a scientist the way he goes after it. But I felt like- You're more reviewing.

I'm more, yes. I mean, you talk about marriage, about your frustration. There was that great joke that was sort of a Seinfeld joke, but oddly one of the jokes of yours, I remember realizing that you were funny, was that thing about the pillow, the stains on the pillow? Yeah. With our head leaking.

What's the joke? Yeah, have you ever seen your favorite pillow? It looks like a Civil War bandage. Like a bandage from the Civil War. But yeah, but you evolved into talking about, you know. Can I tell you a funny story about that joke? Yeah. This is a name drop, but it's such a big name drop I want to tell it.

Okay. I did a gig for Clint Eastwood at his Mission Ranch. Oh, really? Yeah. I did a gig and they knew me, so they brought me in for this fundraiser. Yeah. And there's no food at the end of the night. Yeah.

And we finished the thing and I said to him, is there any place we can get food? The restaurant on the property is closed. He goes, I'll get you something. Come on, let's walk around. And Clint Eastwood and I in the dark, this is up there in Carmel, walking across a gravel driveway, like Josie Wells.

And in the dark, Clint Eastwood says to me, every time I go to bed at night, I think about your Civil War bandage joke is that surreal I'm just like that's it that's it I've never I don't have to do anything else you succeeded yeah you put a brain worm right in Clintinty's head oh he lived for those moments that's great but uh but yeah so i but it was just a confirmation that like but then he asked you to open for him and you've been like sort of his you and mario are like the guys right well yeah up until like you know up until like the last five years i worked for him solid for like eight years. And that's a good gig. It's a great gig. I mean, the audiences are amazing.

You're doing 20, 25 what? 20, 25. Gorgeous theaters. You're hanging with him. Yeah. And you just learn. I just learned a lot about being a person, being a comedian. He's very morally grounded.'s takes care of his stuff

he doesn't uh he's not a there's no like he's not a weirdo there's no like not spinning off not out of control it's like he's the i'm not as dialed in as the opposite of out of control yeah he really is so i learned a ton and that was like at its core, just being around him. Yeah. You got things, you know, like, but, but just more as like the friendship of that comedian was, was super,

super valuable. I don't remember where we were. We were at some hotel. I think I was working in one room and you were opening for Jerry somewhere else. Was that in Vegas? No, it was in Florida. I was at the hard rock.

I think. Oh God. Yeah. You were playing the club and Jerry was playing the theater there. It's the fucking worst. It's a weird spot. That fucking Hard Rock is the worst. Walking from the hotel

through that outdoor restaurant, Florida late night shit show to the club was rough. And I waited to do it. I have family down there and I just put it off because I don't like performing down there for some reason. And the audience is like, who the fuck are these people?

I got 12 fans there. This is before I built my audience. And the rest is like free tickets or I don't know what. Yeah, I know, birthday parties. And just sweating up there. Just like sweating. It's so hard. I know.

It's like you do this for years and then you know you're gonna hit those nights where it's like this isn't landing and i know from doing this that it's not gonna i'm not writing this shit yeah and and you get that sweat in the back of your neck where it's just that sweat of like oh this is like manual labor now you know yeah and you've got five shows you have to do there i just gotta get through the job i gotta yeah oh that's a rough spot as yeah we had coffee yeah yeah during the day yeah it was nice to see you and i think things turned for me and you so but how did you develop the relationship with uh like because you did the informant and then he showed up in the in that great um behind the candelabra yeah i love that movie the liberace movie the liberace so good those

are soderbergh movies soderbergh and you somehow he likes you he likes comics or what yeah well that he somehow listen to me still a little bit uh sticking the knife in i don't know i don't get it but i guess that guy why does he like you yeah what that? What is he seeing you? Yeah. Yeah. I auditioned. I got that one of the rare times when I actually auditioned for something and got it. Yeah. Was the informant. He put a lot of comedians into that movie because he wanted the energy to be off kilter.

It's such a weird story. Yeah. And he said, every comedian has their own quirky energy. Right. And that will set a tone for the film. Interesting. And so I got that role. And then we just hit it off.

And I just didn't suck. Yeah. No, you're great. And he put me in that. And he put me in the nick. And worked on a couple things. And he's great. I mean, talk about similar to the Seinfeld thing.

Yeah. This is a very special guy. Yeah. Who works all the time. Yeah. He just purely wants to, Soderbergh is working on eight things all the time. You leave him, and you're just like, you just need for a drink, and you're like, I got to do more.

Yeah. What am I doing with my time? Yeah, right. Literally. Yeah. I gotta do more. Like, what am I doing with my time? Yeah,

right. Literally. Yeah. And, so I just really stuck around and, you know, again,

don't be annoying. Right. And, and he saw that I could act and, you know, we just kind of, and he liked my standup,

which was really, which is, you know. That's nice. That's always. I thought you were great in the behind the candle offer. It was a weird part.

You were like, I can't remember, like a promoter. I was his manager. Yeah, right. Me and Dan Aykroy was a weird part. You were like, I can't remember, like a promoter? I was his manager. Yeah, right. Me and Dan Aykroyd played as managers. I was his road manager. He was his business manager.

Yeah, I just thought that movie was pretty inspired. It's brutal. Who are you talking to, mumbles? Yeah. Oh, God. It's one of those things where you just know that I'm involved in something that's good. So many times you take gigs and you're like, I don't know how this is good. But you know.

Matt Damon and Michael Douglas were just really fucking acting the fuck out. So good. Because both those roles are risky. They're vulnerable. They're mildly disturbing on an emotional level, and they were so in it. What was amazing though, was watching them at this stage, both of them, such confidence in what they're doing, really knowing how to do it,

that they weren't carrying this weight like, I was sitting with, I was in a scene with uh michael douglas and we're in the background right and it's really matt scene up front we're not even miked right but we're in our big liberace get-ups yeah and there's michael douglas like sodeberg's known for doing one take maybe two then moving on right and it's going three, four takes. And Michael Douglas, in his Liberace voice, in the middle of the scene, turns to me and says, he's doing a lot of takes. I really have got to take a dump.

Why is he deciding to run this one long? You know what I mean? And Matt, too. Matt, at one point, we're all sitting at the table. It's a very emotional scene where he feels like they're breaking up. Yeah. And Matt's sitting there on his BlackBerry. He's making jokes and stuff. And I'm just watching him.

I'm amazed by these guys. And okay, we're going to roll. Matt puts his phone under the napkin and just boom. All of a sudden from this joking around hanging out to tears pulling your heart out tearing at your heart and he's breaking up with this guy and he's hurt and he's vulnerable and he's and then cut okay hey back to making jokes kidding they are so they know like what you were saying how you learned after four years and then going you started to get a skill it's It's interesting that Douglas stays in it.

Yeah. And Damon can go in and out of it. Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah. I remember I heard a quote. It wasn't on that set, but I think it was an interview at the same time where Michael Douglas said when he was younger, he was like all like, you know, you had to really be balled up in your emotion, and you had to own it and feel it. And he said, because the camera knows when you're lying.

Right. The camera knows, so you better be honest and really know it. And then Michael Tully said, it may be able to tell when most people are lying, but I don't think it can tell when I'm lying. I'm an actor. And then he let all that emotional shit go, he knew i can i can act that is right it lightened him up in a way oh that's nice isn't that cool yeah man and and so but oh you were in chris's movie and analyze that who were you that was my first movie ever what would you do what'd you do i played in a jewelry store when deniro's trying to go straight yeah and uh he's

he takes a job he's trying to do these straight jobs after he left the mafia and he uh a job, he's trying to do these straight jobs after he left the mafia and I play a guy shopping for his engagement ring and I was with him for the whole day. But that was the first movie I ever got and Harold Ramis directed it and I went for the thing and I get a call back

and I'm like, okay, I'm hit with my little scene and he says, okay, so we're gonna go in, you're gonna go in. You're going to go in. You're going to read. You'll read the part of whatever with Bob and the thing. And we walk in, and it's De Niro.

Yeah. I thought Bob, the assistant, the intern. And I walk in, there's De Niro standing there with a script for my callback of the first movie ever. I'm like, holy shit. Okay. And then I start doing it, and I'm like really dialed in. I'm like, okay, got to try it. And De Niro's going off script, and he's fumbling.

He's not like improvising. He just can't find his way. He's screwing up my audition. Literally in the middle of auditioning from I'm with a God to who's this asshole? He's got to ruin my shot. But I got it. I got it. It was it fun you're on set with him all day yeah the whole day and after every after every take they beat they say cut and a hair and makeup person would come on him like koala bears yeah and just start going to work on him I'm just standing on the other side of

this jewelry counter yeah yeah know, watching this. So I just started making jokes about my hair. My hair, how's my hair? How are my nails? And it's after like the fourth time of that happening to me, I was like, this guy really is worried about his hair. Wanna take a look at his? Someone's gotta take a look at this.

This guy's really concerned about his hair. He thought you were serious? No, he was starting to bust my balls back. Did he stay in character in between takes? No. Yeah. No. That's funny.

Yeah. So you do a lot of guest shots on stuff. I can see that in the stand-up stuff. You had that one show that you really put a lot of effort and work into, that marriage ref thing. Yeah. Seinfeld's only failure. You tried and tried, and it didn't quite work. It didn't come together.

No, it didn't. How many episodes did you do? We did two seasons. Yeah. So probably 20. What was the problem? I remember watching it sort of like, what is a show exactly? Yeah, that's exactly it.

Like, you know, you had an idea and then you're like, how do we integrate celebrities into it? It was a lot of moving parts. Right. It was part reality show, part talk show. Yeah. Part game show. Right. It was part reality show, part talk show. Yeah. Part game show. Right. It really never landed on exactly what it was.

But that was okay. It was supposed to be this little quiet Sunday night family show. Yeah. Taking people with their real problems and their real funny marital stuff. Yeah. Marital stuff. Yeah. And at that time when we were putting together,

Leno's show craps out on NBC. Yeah. So there's 10 o'clock open on every night of the week that NBC has to film. The one they did to counterbalance Conan? Before Conan. The 10 o'clock primetime show before the Tonight Show. What a fucking clusterfuck that time was on television. What a mess. Huh? Totally. What a dumb thing to do. You have the tonight show what a fucking clusterfuck that time was on television what a mess huh totally what a dumb thing to do you have the late show then you take the old late

show guy and you put him before the new guy at 10 o'clock doesn't work out that craps out so they have to fill 10 o'clock and they come to jerry and they say 10 o'clock it could be yours on thursday night well this is this isn't the quiet little little Sunday show we thought it was going to be, but it's pretty tempting. It was a big mistake because then all of the marketing, and Jerry also didn't want to be front and center of the show either. Right. But now it's NBC and their wisdom. Seinfeld's return to Thursday nights. Jerry Seinfeld's back.

And they start advertising the shit out of it during the Olympics. Right. And they're just shoving it down people's throat. Right. And even when they're – I remember watching like the bobsled during the Olympics. And they break out and they're like, Jerry Seinfeld's back. They weren't even showing me any of the promos. Right right it was all jerry it was all comedy yeah it was they'd see you'd see my hands at the end of the promo my wife was furious but thank god because they the critics

came after it like this isn't seinfeld part two this is this weird show who knows what it is like the critics were pretty rough on it i luckily because the light wasn't on me i i didn't get beaten up you swinged away yeah i was just kind of like okay you know but this is but it's a huge it was a big thing jerry didn't like that it was all kind of kind of coming down he kind of stepped back in the second season there's this other executive producer who is a shit show fighting with the network the network hated her and you know we first season went through jerry's rolodex of madonna and larry dave and all and now we've got you know road comics and stuff doing the show yeah which is really what it should have been sure it should just be funny people talking with these married people. Very funny. Married people crave that kind of a thing.

They miss it. But it was just a shit show. Well, you survived it. Yeah, it was good. Look, it was good for me. The exposure was insane. But I had no control over it. So you do all right on the road by yourself?

Yeah. Right? Yeah, I have a good audience. Yeah, it's great. you know you got a few of the specials and stuff you did and now what the book is uh mostly essays about yeah being a grown-up it's all about it's about everybody it's about family it's about everyone in your life yeah as a comedian i've been watching yeah everybody in your life and uh it's broken down by mom, dad, brothers, sisters, fathers, cousins, uncles. So these are actually bits? Funny essays all about that.

Or there's new essays? No, there's new essays mostly. It's called Your Dad Stole My Rake? Your Dad Stole My Rake and Other Family Dilemmas. That's good. It's my first book, yeah. Well, congratulations. And tell me about, like, I didn't realize

that you were in the driver's seat at live from here yeah that that is what that's the new name for prairie home companion which is now uh populated with younger people yes a new host yeah garrison has been put out to pasture for reasons well he left before the fuffle right but but they changed the name because of that oh did they and and did they have the ratings of that Right. But they changed the name because of that. Oh, did they? And did they, how are the ratings of that thing? Still good? Yeah, they're good. What's the name of the new host?

Chris Thiele. Oh, he's a band, a mandolin player. Amazing folk artist. Yeah, it seems like it's all a bunch of folky country people. We've had John Prine on. I know. I don't know. Yeah, it sounds great.

It's great. The music, it's like a revival. I was about to say, I don't know why I haven't been on it. I realized I'm not a musician of that age. You can come on it as a comic. I would love for you to do it. I'm in charge of the comedy. Where's my time?

I would love for you to do it. I'd love to do it. Would you travel to do it? To Minnesota? Well, it moves around. It's always in a different spot. Yeah, sure. You would?

Yeah, I've got stuff that'll work for me. I would love for you to do it. Yeah, I'd love it. We've had great people. Rory Scoville, Colin Quinn. Yeah, I'd love to do it. Yeah. We've had great people, Rory Scoville, Colin Quinn. Yeah. I'd love to do it. Oh,

it's great. Yeah. So I put, we have a comedian has a spot and then we, I'm in charge of the writing. Uh-huh. And you still got some of the old timers there, huh?

Yeah. Doing the radio show scripts. The two guys. Well, yeah, I'm in charge of the scripts now. All new characters though? Yes.

Uh-huh. Yes. I, I, uh, always loved the show. Yeah. I always listened to it once it was on if i came upon it if you stumbled across it which is this way it is now yeah yeah and you just hear and i was just in awe of the garrison created this world yeah and but i always had this sneaking

suspicion like what would that be like in the hands of comedians like it's funny-ish it's humorous it's a humorist's take on it but but also he had an arc in his own sort you know he had created this world and you stay within the world exactly and the pace was what it was it's a comfortable pace it wasn't you didn't have to be like oh what's he want from me you know you could hear it in the background be like oh it's nice music totally that's kind of funny yeah right was it. Like Guy Noir. Yeah, Guy Noir. And he would do the news from Lake Wobegon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so when I got the gig, I was so,

you did my radio show at Largo, the Come to Papa show. Yeah. I remember you said, are you doing okay? You always get worried when a guy starts doing, starts doing a scripted show. On the radio. On the radio. On the radio.

I'm like, yeah, no, I'm okay. And I was kind of like, and it was funny. Like I was writing scripts. Yeah. I was making, I was doing my version of Prairie Home Companion, but with all you guys. Right. Which was so funny. Yeah.

Everybody was really funny. We'd have music and stuff, not as good, but we would have funnier stuff. Right. funny we'd have music and stuff not as good but we would have funnier stuff right so when chris approached me through flanny at largo yeah i was doing exactly what they needed for five years i was writing scripts radio sketches radio scripts i was i knew exactly what had to be done and i would watch chris in that first season when he was when g Garrison was gone and he's floating out there in these horrible five minute long not funny yeah he's it was it was death uh-huh and I came in when I was like we're gonna we're gonna make it funny let's let's come on let's get some let's as a comedian I wasn't writing like Garrison I had a folksy kind of take to things but I want laughs

yeah I want laughs and it's a weekly gig for you? It's every week, yeah. And I do, I appear on it every week. I do this segment called Out in America where I report from wherever I am. And either I'll record it or I'll go to a public radio station where they do Marketplace or something. Do the ISDN?

Yeah, while they're live. Sure. Or I'll go and I'll be in Chicago doing it. That's the best way to do it, but I can't get it. I'm gigging, so I can't do it every week. Sure, do you have a staff of writers? Yeah, there's four writers that submit stuff. I took it over in September.

The beginning of it was like, I couldn't believe I was standing doing a monologue where Garrison Keillor did Lake Wobegon. Yeah, yeah. It was big for me. Isn't it in Minnesota? Didn't it used to be? Yeah, it was mainly out of St. Paul.

So you don't have to travel? No, if I can get there, I do, but I've got my tour. I've got, you know, I'm doing standup. You're touring now? Yeah. Really? Yeah.

What's the tour? Always touring. It's a nonstop. I stop. You do? Yeah. Really's the tour? Always touring. Oh. It's never, it's a nonstop. I stop. You do? Yeah. Really? Like a band?

Yeah, I mean, I just, I mean, I gotta get, well, I gotta get a new hour, you know? Like I did the special last year and I just did five European dates with about 40, 45 new, and then some stuff that no one had ever heard before, so it was new to them, but not to me necessarily. I probably should have toured the old,

I didn't do it right, really, in terms of, I just, but not to me necessarily. I probably should have toured the old, I didn't do it right really in terms of, I just didn't want to do it. But like I had that hour that I eventually taped, and I could have toured it for another three or four months, like really late into it before it was released, but I didn't. But you won't go out with any of that material

while you're working on the new stuff? Not much. I tried to not do that because it just seemed to be like, but maybe I'm wrong about that. I just can't. Well, first, I can't stop touring. I can't, you know what I mean? I like, it's what I do.

Right. But I'm also very conscious of, this is these people in Cincinnati's Saturday night out, and this is the one time they're going to see me. I can't just give them an hour of new shit. No, but I mean, I'm not doing new shit that doesn't work. Yeah, but right. But isn't there like a slow evolution of that happening?

Sure. You know what I mean? Yeah, but like I mean. I'll throw in a bit. I'll just throw a bit that i'll just throw a bit in to get through the hour but this time like i really felt like this is the first time where i'm doing like you know bigger rooms i'm selling you know i mean i in in england i sold over 2 000 tickets you know and and like and i have to assume that they a lot of them know

me from this or that but they had to have watched a new special maybe that's wrong but do you ever see people after this is the modern day puzzle by the way but do you ever talk to people after the show they wanted to see the bit that they know yeah i get that and maybe i'll learn my lesson but but it really becomes sort of a challenge for me that like like knowing that possibly you know that they they will have seen it it's like like, it kills it a little. I know, it does. But I could watch you do jokes that I know really well and enjoy it. Yeah, no, I know. And if I can, then the secretary in Peoria is going to be into it too. Yeah, I guess maybe I'll learn my lesson.

I mean, I did it in Europe, but I definitely gave them, like I didn't do the Rolling Stones bit. I didn't do these big bits that I've been doing but I brought back a couple of bits that no one had seen because I'd only done them on TV once or twice

that were long bits that I worked months on and like a couple really old ones that you really had to dig deep to find them but they were great bits and then I did like

40 minutes of totally new shit and then I riffed. It's great. Yeah. It's like, you know. But you're right. I might have disappointed some people.

I don't know. I wasn't saying that. Oh. But I do feel like, I don't know. It's a real, it's, we're definitely, I'm sure you've talked about this a lot. But there are a lot of bad specials out right now. There are a lot of people rushing material out because they think that they have to do all new stuff all the time. And you know. But I'm not going to do that.

No, I'm not saying you are. No, I know. But I find it for myself. I'm always going between this thing of, am I being lazy because I just want to kill this night, this Saturday night? Yeah. Should I be pushing it? It's all got to be new. But even, I mean, I'm not that good enough to put out completely new stuff all the time.

I know, but that's like, but also it's a difference in how you and I work. Like I was telling you, like when I start to build material, I can't do it bit by bit. Right. It's got to start to take shape as a whole. Right. So like that's like I was telling you, like I'll go do hours, you know, do a residency at Steve Allen or start working out, you know, hours here in town. Yeah. Or go to smaller clubs.

You're thinking of it as this hour and a half thing. Well, yeah, it's got to be a through line to it. Like I'll start out like just I don't like this. The difference between writing like Seinfeld and writing like me like me yeah is that i'm talking through things right so i'll sell a cheap ticket to my fans and say like you know don't expect much i'm i'm processing and i'll have them sit there for an hour and a half two hours to start to find my way right through this bunch of shit that's a valuable thing i'm just so nervous about uh you know as a comic like a joke can sometimes get really good four years in no i agree like that's why that's why i feel like people are

rushing shit and you're not one of these i'm not saying this about you no but like that's what i was telling you about conan is that i could go in with half of it right and then like you know eventually it's sort of like a tag comes a year or two later and you're like all right so what no one saw it on conan now it's a full joke so do you feel do you feel a need like do you have uh do you feel pressured to put out more specials now no i don't care about the special when it's ready it's ready when yeah i mean i want like i want to do one and it's nice to know because it kind of puts a fire under your ass but like what do i care like you know it's nice to know because it kind of puts a fire under your ass. But what do I care? It's hard to get people to watch it.

I mean, it's just going to be one in a million specials. I'd rather it be good. Yeah, the last one I did was there was an evolution I think is the best one I've ever done. I've done two for Netflix and one for Epix, and this is clearly in a direction where I have a lot more control. But I can't rush the material. I don't know where it comes from or why. That's my thing. That's the essence of it. Yeah, and right now I'm like material i don't know where it comes from or why that's my thing and that that's the essence yeah and right now i'm like i don't know what the fuck i'm gonna do i didn't like when i took these days and dates in europe i'm like what the fuck

am i gonna do and then like all of a sudden stuff started to you know yeah to happen you know and now like i've been away from it for two weeks and i and i don't know if it's gone forever right now it's totally lost but i do feel like that that's that's important because i do feel like and it's hard because there is pressure to have new content and stuff but just also for me it's just sort of like you want the opportunities it's like i like it's not even like i feel like i got to get content out there it's just sort of like you know well netflix will probably do another one with you i'm like like, really? Oh, shit. So how much are you going to pay me money? Yeah.

Yeah. And then you're like, all right. You know, whether it's out there or not, whatever. I don't know. You know, like people are, you know, at this point, I'm sort of like, well, you know, if they don't stick with me, whatever. I can't be because like that desperation you talk about being alleviated. Yeah.

Once you find some success for yourself. I mean, you can find it again. It's like, should I be tweeting more? Should I be on Facebook? I don't even use facebook is instagram important when can i get another special because i don't want people to forget that i exist you know i'm on this every day are people still listening to this i don't know if there isn't so like yeah you're gonna find another place for the desperation and action so like you know i want to try to i want to try and stay in though i don't really give a fuck yeah but but i still want to work you

know i always work from fear a hundred percent from fear right and panic yeah which is good but i guess but i but i feel like uh uh when people ask like so when's the next hour when's the next hour and everywhere you go every every comics i'm just working on my next hour i'm just working next hour it's like how about you just work on your act right when the act is great yeah then you'll do a special no that's the way i really think yeah and i've been fortunate in that it has revealed itself to me right you know fairly consistently you know like i've turned through a lot of shit right but then i started to realize that there's some shit that i let die that i'm like why am i not doing that like like one of the things i brought out in europe was like i did this bit that took me six months to fucking make

it yeah it's great it's like it's a long bit and it's like it just got a beautiful arc to it it was right when i started doing longer form stuff yeah that had structure and i did it once on like the john oliver comedy thing and then i'm like gotta retire that now and like no what am i no one even saw that fucking thing so like i go to europe and i'm like i'm putting that thing back together. Good. Yeah, that's great. It's a great bit. It's great. No, I know. You know, and there is that kind of, it's almost, I always feel like, who do you think

you are, Papa, that you think everyone in this room has seen that bit? That's the other thing. Like when no one knew who I was, it's like, no, no, no, I've already done that on TV. It's like, so what? Right, exactly. No one cares. You know how many people are out there? I know now, especially.

Billions watching this stuff. It's like, they should see your stuff. And also, after you've been around for a while, you don't know what the hell they know you from or why they're there. No. Or whether they get Netflix or anything. No, exactly. And that's the other argument. It's like, I think there's an argument to mix it up.

I think you should always show up with at least 20, 30 new. Absolutely. Right? No, you should not be late. The era of just riding out your act for your career is long gone. And as you know, we couldn't do it. I don't have that. I feel bad. I can't sell it. Oh, no, you can't fake it that much. All right, buddy. This was really nice, Mark. It was great. Great talking to you. You too. And congratulations. I think that's an interesting and fun show that live from here, and I hope the book does well. Thank you. Good to see you, man. You too.

That was great. I loved getting to know Tom after knowing him for 15, 20 years. I'm going to try to play some guitar in the new garage. Oh, yeah. Hear that? Hear that little... That little... That's the sound of time travel.

You hear that buzz? Hear that? That is the sound of, like, 1957. A through line. A tapped-in frequency. A tube line. A tapped in frequency. A tube hum from an old Fender. And that is straight in

Gibson 335 Humbuckers. Yeah. Kind of in tune, right? Kind of. Thank you. Boomer lives! Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations,

how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Calgary is an opportunity-rich city home to innovators, dreamers, disruptors, and problem solvers. The city's visionaries are turning heads around the globe

across all sectors each and every day. They embody Calgary's DNA. A city that's innovative, inclusive, and creative. And they're helping put Calgary and our innovation ecosystem on the map as a place where people come to solve some of the world's greatest challenges. Calgary's on the right path forward.

Take a closer look at how at calgaryeconomicdevelopment.com.