WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 922 - ​Vanessa Hollingshead

Episode Date: June 6, 2018

Vanessa Hollingshead can honestly say that a cruise ship saved her life. She tells Marc what led to a comedy career in the first place after a childhood spent in communes, foster homes, and around lots of grown-ups on acid and other psychedelic drugs. Vanessa got a hot start in comedy and her big break was right in front of her, and then it all went away, followed by a crushing personal tragedy. And if it wasn't for that cruise ship, she might not be here telling this story. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies

what the fucking ears what the fucksicles that's a summer one i just decided on it how's it going today on the show i talked to vanessa hollingshead vanessa hollingshead and i go way back way back to new york back in the day she was she's a little younger than me and i remember her starting out she started after me but made it like a very big impact. Like she was very, did a lot of big character stuff. A lot of, I thought she was going to be like the new Lucille Ball. She just had a lot going on. And then I didn't hear from her or see her for a long time. I'd heard weird stuff.

I didn't know what was happening with her. I was recently going through my memory, checking in with everybody i once knew in my mind i think i'd gotten an email from somebody who had been on a ship working with her she does comedy on boats now and i was just curious as to how you know what happened to her life you know is she okay what's she doing comedy wise i mean she used to uh she was married to um to the owner of the comic strip not the owner the guy who booked the comic strip, Lucian Hold for years. And he passed away. It was one of those stories where I'm like, where did that woman go?

And she's been out there working, doing a lot of cruise ships and stuff. But it's a very harrowing tale of comedy. It's one of those ones. And it was great to see her. And I'm glad we caught up so that's going to happen in a minute you're going to hear it i also i i know that uh i want i got a couple emails about the uh hawaii volcano statements i made the other day one of them uh you know helping out and the other one saying like could you shut up tourism is our most important

industry in hawaii all right if people want to play golf in the lava let them play golf in the lava who are you to ruin a luau in the lava wait why are you getting all upset you don't want to scuba dive in hot steamy sulfuric acid air water come on just because you're a pussy i'm sorry is it not good to use that word just because you're a weenus doesn't mean other people don't want to enjoy the nice healing effects of freshly boiled lava water while they're snorkeling. All right, so let's talk about volcanoes for a minute. I made some jokes I just did on this show again. And I told you I did get one email from someone just saying, you know, take it easy. The volcanoes on a small part of the island, it's not having a tremendous effect on most of the island.

And we require tourists. There is the email. Subject line volcanoes. Hey, Mark, I'm Jeremy and I love the podcast. I thought the David Harbor episode was great. I'm not trying to correct you. I guess I thought you would like to know about the two kinds of volcano eruptions that can occur. Simply put, volcanoes like the Hawaiian Islands ooze lava slowly and constantly over many, many years, building islands while at it.

Lava rarely gets more dangerous than persons walking away could deal with. The other kind, like that of Vesuvius, the one that caused the famous Pompeii disaster, are much more dangerous. They are called pyroclastic volcanoes and build pressure inside until it actually explodes with ash, gases, and bits of solid rock. All burning very hot And the pyroclastic clouds are sometimes over a hundred miles an hour. Volcanoes like Hawaii will never explode with deadly gases and volcanoes like Pompeii will never dribble lava. Cool, right? Just another reason you'll find a cool correlation of where the different kinds are.

Loved your show, Maren. Love Glow. I've got a crush on Allison, but you are my favorite on the show and the podcast is my favorite thing to listen to twice a week on my crappy ride to my crappier job keep fighting the good fight man thank you jeremy thank you for clearing up the volcano question yeah i i think that's interesting though that that perhaps if there are going to be fatalities or many fatalities from the Hawaiian volcano, it'll just be people like going, come here, dude, just get closer.

Get the picture. I'm going to do a selfie with the lava. Oh, you can't really see it. Hold on. Oh, fuck. Yeah, something like that. All right. Something like that.

Also, you mentioned the David Harbour episode, which I enjoyed very much. Oh, see, this is the interesting thing is I do a long conversation with David Harbour episode, which I enjoyed very much. Oh, see, this is the interesting thing, is I do a long conversation with David Harbour, and we talk candidly about struggles with mental illness, his being a little more extreme than mine, him talking about hospitalization, about medication, and being sort of open about it, which gets attention both in a good way and a bad way. Like, it's very helpful to destigmatize mental illness and talk candidly about it. I've been doing it here for years and many of my guests have as well. But the issue is, is it's not going to bother David at all. He doesn't mind.

But the clickbait fucking cancer spreaders, the malignant clickbaitists, let's just call them that. I mean, you know, it's just like they just everywhere. Harbor and mental institution. Harbor and mental hospital. Harbor, quote quote i was committed to a mental asylum it's just like just shit tons of quickbait taken out of context even if people don't read that article which many people don't they just you know glance past it and then make mental note of the quickbait and bring it up somewhere else and talk to somebody else who doesn't know shit about it takes it out of context and actually does the exact opposite of what we did on the show it sort of stigmatizes mental illness because of the sordid approach of the attention-grabbing

garbage headline some of them were thorough in the way they covered the episode but many just wanted people to plant that in their head just the the malignant meme machine. And I, you know, I'm guilty of taking that stuff in. I mean, hearsay is in a lot of ways, you don't, you don't even realize it's, you know, it's, it's sticking in your brain until you go, oh yeah, I heard that he was in mental hospital. Yeah, I saw that. I saw that article. Did you read it? Nah nah but it must be you know you must have be must be sick or what it's just everyone's guilty of it it's just a shame that one of the things that i do here the one of the things that many people don't have time to do anymore don't make time to do is talk long enough and thorough enough and emotionally connected enough to sort of move through a

lot of human problems, human issues, human interests and excitements, the process of people and how they live their life. And it just can be minimized to garbage in seconds by somebody who claims to be a journalist. What kind of people are those going to become? What kind of people that are just these strange, predatory, bottom feeding, maybe college graduates who whose job it is working on whatever web publication they work at to to sort of take something, crunch it down, rip it out of context and think of a kind of cracky little headline for it. little headline for it um where do they go on to what's their big future is that where they stop do they call themselves journalists in an era where journalism couldn't have it really has been phenomenal the type of real work that journalists do what do the quick betas think of themselves do they think they're heading in that direction where they might actually do

something thorough and honest and probing and you know answering all the journalistic questions with all the scope of uh of what is necessary to create a good piece of journalism or they're just going to be marin shits on journalism i just wrote a piece for them but it is it is disconcerting and sad that the cultural dialogue continues to digress to where it's just going to be angry apes spewing bits and pieces, fragments of larger stories completely out of context, just blathering down the street, gurgling things. Trump! Lava! Porn star! blathering down the street gurgling things trump lava porn star golf i went to ikea to get curtain rods and i ended up buying a large patio umbrella

that's the kind of thing that can happen there. I just need some, uh, I just need a container for my thing. Oh, look what I got. Everything's so cheap. It's just disposable. Got a large patio umbrella that I don't even know. The great thing about so much that is made today, if you can accept it, is that when you buy it and you take it out of the box and you put it together, the first thought you have is, look at that piece of garbage. Looks okay, but it's really garbage. And you just wait for it to become actual garbage. So did I tell you a little bit about me and Vanessa's history? But it was interesting to talk to her because I hadn't seen her in a long time and she has been through quite an ordeal and she did come out on the other side of it and she is working and she's doing you know I've only

talked to a couple of ship comics and it's an interesting life an interesting world but her journey all the way from childhood through to where she is now I had no idea I had no idea the depth and scope of what she'd been through and where she'd been in the last few years and what she's been doing because she was she's one of those comics that was like that she's she was about to happen about to happen and just a series of events shifted the trajectory of her life this is me talking to uh vanessa hollingshead i should mention that she also she had laryngitis when she was here that was bad timing so if you go see go see her doing stand up in New York or on the road, it's likely she will not sound like this. So this is me and Vanessa Hollingshead.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know, we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations,

how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy?

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Zensurance. Mind your business. So what do you do? Like, who's that guy out there? My friend Jeff. He actually... Oh, he's just a buddy of yours? He lives out here? When I got my first development deal, he wrote the show,

and then I turned down the Drew Carey show, and that was to cost me. I remember Lucian said, well, you might have shot your last wad, honey, and you might never get another chance, but just get really funny. Great. Thanks, pal. Thank you, Lucian.

Well, I mean, I don't know what you've been doing but i do remember there was a time where we were all sort of where did you come from where'd you because i remember that you got some big opportunities just like you were saying drew carrie show and whatever and we can talk about that but i remember there was a time when did you start doing comedy i did comedy in 92 i. I was trained to be a Shakespearean actress. Well, where'd you grow up? New York City and then in England. My dad actually brought LSD into the country and gave it to Timothy Leary.

Your dad was the guy who did that? Yeah, he was the guy that did that. But was he a scientist or a chemist or drug dealer? He was a drug addict, alcoholic. But was he a drug dealer? No, he was a drug addict, alcoholic. But was he a drug advocate? I mean, at that time, I mean, LSD was sort of, had supposedly mystical qualities.

What was his trip? Did he live long? Do you remember him? Yes, I remember him. He, him and Tim Leary and Bill W, believe it or not, Bill W was experimenting with LSD. They had the Concord prison experiment.

Bill W. from AA. From AA. People got upset when he was taking acid because I was like, if you took acid for one day, do you lose your sobriety? And they were like, yes. But I'm like, but Bill W. took it. Like, well, they're upset with him. He was trying to cure alcoholism.

Yes. And he noticed. And I wanted to see God. But in the end, he said, and same with Baba Ram Dass. Baba Ram, I actually took LSD by accident when I was five. Really? Yes.

And Baba Ram Dass, what's his name? He gave me the shot of Thorazine, Richard Alpert. Yeah, Richard Alpert. He was hanging out. So your dad was in New York City, or was this in London? No, my dad was in New York. He got the LSD from Albert Hoffman. From England.

From Switzerland. From Switzerland, the original LSD. It's LSD. It's called L-acid 25, because the 25th batch, you know, Albert Hoffman was just experimenting. because the 25th batch, you know, Albert Hoffman was just experimenting. And he sneezed, breathes, it's from the ergot, from a rye seed. Just sneezed, went on his nose. He was bicycling through the streets of Basel, Switzerland. And the next time he was tripping his brains out.

So he got, that was LSD 25. Right. Got it to Huxley, who was writing The Doors of Perception. Right. My dad was friends with Huxley. So your dad's from England. From England. Yeah, from Darlington.

How was he in with Huxley and all these guys? Because he was a writer. Okay. And my dad wrote the book, The Man Who Turned On The World. And then my dad, Leary, got all the credit. Was that a successful book? It was pretty successful. They knew him in England, and he gave lsd to paul mccartney um in england in england and paul mccartney and they were getting the book the tibetan book of the dead yeah so there's a song

on the beatles called tomorrow never knows yeah because i know my dad wanted to meet john lennon yeah and he only could meet Paul. I'm sure he was like, well, you know, I mean. I'll take Paul. I'll take Paul. I really want John, but Paul will do. Who knows? He thought John would enjoy the acid more?

I think he'd enjoy John more because John was more of a rebel and my dad was a rebel. Yeah. And so they got, he got the Tibetan book of the dead to john and tomorrow never knows was inspired from taking lsd all right so then your dad comes here and what he's hanging out up at the mansion no this is early 60s right he's already they got the acid early 60s yeah it was this right before the summer of love when everything exploded. But my dad had to get this acid to somebody. And Tim Leary was a psychologist at Harvard. And he was experimenting with psilocybin mushrooms.

And my dad was such a conniver. He was very shrewd. He could meet anybody. Yeah. was such a conniver he was very shrewd he could meet anybody yeah and someone said Huxley said meet this chap Tim Leary yeah so he goes to meet Tim Leary and he threatens to kill himself and Tim Leary said I think he's a sociopath and my dad said you've got to try this LSD it'll run it's nothing like your magic mushrooms and he was smart he was a real ladies man

so Flo Ferguson was Maynard Ferguson's wife the trumpet player yes yeah so he said can can you put me up

you know I came all the way and Tim wanted to be nice and Tim was like just get rid of the guy and the annoying British guy with the chemical

that I think is a sociopath. There's something off about him. But Tim was a psychologist, so he knew. So he was right? Yeah. I had the joy of having him as a father. Right. But were you born at this point?

Yeah. I was born in 1960, right, when all this stuff was happening. And at five was when they had Millbrook Mansion. And five was when- Millbrook, upstate New York. When they put the LSD on the sugar cubes. And my mom wouldn't let me have any candy. And I just kept eating the sugar cubes. Okay, so your dad turns Leary on.

And Leary, I guess, changes his mind about your dad. Well, Flo Ferguson. My dad gets a hold of Flo Ferguson. That's in the house in Cambridge. Right. This is the house where all these people are hanging out, coming and going, Richard Alpert and that whole bunch. Right.

And Tim is, I think, working at Harvard. Yeah. And Flo says, Tim, you got to try this stuff. This is amazing. Yeah. He loved Flo. Yeah. So he takes the acid and he's like, you know what?

I think I was, man, I think I was wrong about you. I think this is- Yeah, yeah. You was wrong about you. I think this is. Yeah, yeah, you seem great. And your hair is electric. Yes. They called him the divine rascal. That's what your dad was? He was called divine rascal.

So he kind of followed that crew up to Millbrook and you followed up to Millbrook and then you got dosed when you were. Well, my mom didn't know what to do with me. She was very upset. She was actually. But she's not British? She was American. She was very upset. She was actually the very funny one. But she's not British? She was American.

She said, when I met your father, I hated all men. And after I married him, I hated everybody. What did she do? She was his secretary. And she met my dad at Oxford University Press. And she just wanted to be a mom. Yeah. She was madly at Oxford University Press. She just wanted to be a mom. She was madly in love with him.

He was a bit of a player. That marriage went south. How quickly though? How old were you? Like one. He was already seeing other women. I have a stepsister and a stepbrother. Why were you, if he was off and running, why were you in New York? Were you in his custody?

My mom wanted to, said, I'm putting Vanessa up for adoption. I can't take care of her. And my dad said, let her have some fresh air in the country. The country will do her good. And there was hippies. Millbrook Mansion. Yeah, there was rooms filled with, they would experiment. They would take an iguana and a rabbit and a monkey and give them all acid, see how they did.

And a baby. And a baby. Yeah, one or two. Baby, some candy. Yeah. So you're up there, and how old are you at that moment? Five. You're five. So you have up there, and how old are you at that moment? Five. You're five, so you have vague memories? No, I remember like something was really wrong that day, but we had a... The day you took the acid?

The day I took the acid, I remember like I was jumping. My dad was now seeing this woman, Britta, and I remember I used to love the trampoline. I remember jumping up and down on the trampoline, and all of a sudden I just saw fluorescent worms everywhere. And I remember going to see my dad, and I started screaming for Britta. And we had Alex. I think Alex was Maynard Ferguson's son.

We both saw the same thing. And I remember she grabbed me in one hand and Alex in the other, and I looked at my dad, and I said, Dad, look at the pictures ripping. Look at my nails getting smaller. And my dad was like, oh, fuck, she got into the acid. And he didn't know how many trips I took because I used to leave it on sugar cubes.

So I said, do you remember what happened that day? He goes, I remember I drove you for like, must have been 12 hours and you just said, look at the purple trees. And I was mortified that you might have brain damage. Oh, so he cared. Yeah, I was like, well, thanks, Dad. Thank you.

And then he got me to Richard Alpert, had a little shack in Millbrook Mansion. And he was just coming into his, think homosexuality it was very taboo and richard albert had like a bag of tricks and just i remember getting the shot of thorazine i remember like i i my dad i remember my dad picking me up like this and the shot and i was out and that was it wow so they just knocked you out? Knocked me right out. And you processed it? You woke up? You were okay? Yeah, it was great. I just became a comedian, had nothing but dysfunctional relationships afterwards and hated myself. Yeah, no, it worked out great. So you trace it back to that. Well, I mean, so you're five then. So how do you grow up? You grow up with him? Why did your mother think she couldn't take care of you?

you grow up you grow up with him or why did your mother uh think she couldn't take care of you she was starting to come a little bit unglued i ended up being in and out of many foster homes you did yeah and my dad was now they were starting to crack down on millbrook mansion that was the introduction of mk ultra and the cia so they took the acid they they got hold of gordon liddy remember gordoniddy surrounded? And then Gordon Liddy and Leary ended up being on tour. They did a comedy show together. But once acid was introduced and the CIA got a hold of it, they started to do the experiments to see what it was capable of.

Yeah, they wanted to be truth-seer. Now, this was now my dad. My dad ended up going back to England because he he wanted to take he was going to be the london affiliate yeah of mk ultra no no the lsd when all this was happening and he had 25 hours i think the cia said you either tell us what you know you have 24 hours to get out of the country yeah so he got it when he got back to england he started to get addicted to methamphetamine. My dad had a really bad, he had untreated alcoholism and methamphetamine issues. So he got addicted to the methamphetamine.

This is when he gave Paul McCartney the LSD. And for two roaches, got sentenced to 16 years in wormwood does not sound like a dickens wormwood sure prison um and he decided to be his own lawyer uh and when he was high on acid and it got him another like six months uh-huh he heard the police getting ready to come and you know in england you have you flush the loo you know in England you flush the loo and the two roaches joints came up from the bathroom and the police officer was like, well what seems to be here? Looks to be two marijuana roaches and then my dad said, well isn't that way they belong? In the toilet. And that just cost him.

So he went to jail for a while? 16 months. And then that's when he started going into foster homes? Well, I was going in and out of them. At two, my mother put me up for adoption. Then three, I was back with her. Then four, I was with her somewhere else. Then five, a little bit at Millbrook.

Did she have mental problems? No, she was with her somewhere else. Then five, a little bit at Millbrook. Did she have mental problems? No, she was completely sane. Yeah, but I mean, like, what was her trip? I mean, she just couldn't handle it. Oh, I don't know what her trip was. Is she still alive? No, she died six years ago. It was the first time we were close.

I was kind of like her mom. Yeah. And my mother was like Blanche Dubois, but on drugs. My mother had gotten brutalized in Bed-Stuy. She'd gotten beaten. She'd gotten raped. And I was going to school, and I was trying to, and that's when I used to listen to music, the Beatles,

and pretend, you know, Paul or John marries me. I'll be out of this. And your father was in jail, or you just weren't talking to him? He was in jail and no one knew. And my mother was so angry at him, she made sure we, he eventually found me, hired a detective, found me in Combray Island and then I lived on the commune. I mean, it was just a lot of.

What commune? I lived in Dorset Hill Commune. Got his girlfriend. He was now running the Free High church in cambrai island giving lsd where is that that was off the island coast of scotland okay giving lsd to um oh so he was really doing the 60s he never got over this i said i said dad the 60s are gone yeah they're done yeah you need to move on was he like the guru of this island it was he like was it a cult situation wasn't a cult situation he just so believed in him and leary were idea were were

idealist yeah they believed if everyone could take lst they would see god and the world would be a better place yeah and i said but you're having a lot of crazy people and young people that don't have a shot living in harlem and living in in tenements without a shot they're taking lsd yeah and they're not getting the same vision yeah you can control this substance with cute blonde hippie women that you can have sex with and lots of good food and great things to read i said not everyone has that opportunity you said that to him? Yeah. He said, shut the fuck up, you straight fucking shit.

I mean, he would just get so angry at me. How old were you when you were saying that stuff to him? Oh, like 12, 12, 13. Oh, my God. But what were the foster homes like? I mean, what was that? Oh, they were awful. They were awful. But the the one home thank god this woman

I was I lived at 410 Central Park West when I was two when when I was three and Gracie my best friend was two her mother noticed that I would run around with no very little clothes on. And she said, you used to knock on people's doors. And I don't have any recollection asking people for food. You'd always be entertaining. And you became good friends with my little daughter, Gracie. And Gracie and I, to this day, we're still best friends. I mean, we've got this like, it's beyond sisters.

Like, her mother saved my life. I know he said I will always take care of Gracie. But her mother said, I'll never forget, like, going over to your mother's place. And I'd missed a lot of school. And we were in Bed-Stuy now. And my mother had, like, her teeth knocked out. And I would have to go visit her. And I didn't know what would take place.

And I had been brutalized. I remember like, and this is when I just believed that there's got to be some God. I remember this gang of kids broke in, and I was like, you know, eight. And I remember they just broke in, and I just was just like praying nothing would happen to me. And they said, where's the money? was just like praying nothing would happen to me.

And they said, where's the money? And I said, it's on the refrigerator, and it was just like 35 cents. They went, oh, shit. And they threw the change on the floor, and they just walked out. And I remember thinking, something has got to be looking out for me. But Big Ray said, you would miss almost six months of school. You were going to put you in a foster home. And you were too sensitive.

You never would have, no, a reform school. You never would have lasted. Yeah. So she took me in. And she changed my entire life. Gracie's mom. Gracie's mom changed my entire life. She was German. And I remember reading about the Holocaust and, you know, just reading about this.

And I said, came home from school, I'm like why did you yeah kill six million Jews yeah she was like oh we did not kill six million Jews I mean Hitler was Austrian we're German uh-huh he did that so I was like right oh yeah yeah we had nothing to do with it nothing we had nothing to do with that sure uh so okay so that and that's where you primarily grow up with her family for one year then my dad finds me he's in cambrai island he becomes friends with this woman myra coppersmith yeah crazy jewish woman with just larger than life woman has like an affair with her and goes you get get Vanessa back. Just get her, get her to Cambria Island and we'll just get her.

Yeah. So she meets me. She's like a character. She ends up being completely orthodox. Like marries, like she's now Miriam. She lives in Israel. And I ended up meeting Bob Dylan because her husband Mayer yeah he's good friends with Bob Dylan so Miriam said I'd love to be like your mother and

I remember she introduced me to James Taylor and Carole King and Brooklyn and like this whole world and was he on dope then was he a druggie she was Myra a druggie? No, Myra liked pot. I remember she liked pot. I remember she never wore a bra. Yeah. She had like the ohm sign. She was hippie. And her husband knew Dylan? My husband met Dylan years later.

She converted. She went from being Reformed Orthodox Buddhist to being devout. Full Orthodox. Yeah. And that's when Dylan was at too? Dylan was just, i remember meeting dylan years ago like in 1990 like in 1990 91 and she invites me over to a seder which i'd never been to and there was bob dylan and there was these three rabbis that were very funny and i remember

bob dylan and he just like he just completely fell right in his food. And I said to Miriam, I said, I think he's on something stronger than Manischewitz wine. He fell in his food? Fell right in his food. But I'll never forget, we were both washing our hands. And we had to wash the hands. And I was like, this is fucking Bob Dylan and I was like I couldn't you know like when you

met talking Keith you just get all excited and I was like hey I love Lay Lady Lay that's it thank you he goes what do you do I'm like I just started doing comedy

he's like wow that's, wow, that's brave. I'm like, he said that's brave. He said that's brave. Bob Dylan. Bob Dylan thought I was brave. So that was that late. So you'd already started doing comedy when you were. Just six months in.

I was just six months in. So that relationship with Myra sort of evolved. But you stayed with Big and Little Grace for a while. And then where did you end up? Well, the commune, my dad. Miriam put me in this commune, and there were all the draft archers. Miriam, Myra became Miriam.

Yeah, yeah. There were all the draft archers from Cornell University, Ithaca, and she said, and she was real, she was like, I will be like the mother you never had and take care of you. I get to this commune.

There's no electricity. I'm this kid from Brooklyn. I love bologna sandwiches and hot pants and Barbie dolls. They milk the goats. You've got to pump water for the well. They're growing pot everywhere people having sex they're doing drugs yeah this is really too much too much and i had to live in my own yurt build my own firewood i'm like wow i got all the skills if i ever had to like go to

siberia go off the grid right yeah so they didn't she never told me this they asked her to leave Right? Yeah. So they didn't, she never told me this. They asked her to leave. They said, we, after like two weeks, they said, you leave, but we want the little girl to stay. I thought Myra didn't want me. Oh.

And your dad's there too, right? No. My dad is furious with Myra because Myra said, listen, I was supposed to bring you back to Combray Island, but your dad's not very nice. He's mean. He's got a dark side. Yeah. And I remember my mother saying, he's got a dark side. Yeah. So in a year later, my dad drove up to the commune and flipped out.

And he goes, the reason why this commune exists is because of me. Because I gave you acid. All this fucking free fucking love is me. Just leave me the fuck alone, and I'll shoot all of you fucking fucks. So that was my dad. We were at the commune. So he's holed up in this yurt-like thing, and everyone's being very polite with him. And they're like, dude, you know,

your dad's really violent. And then he says to me, you have your choice. He goes, listen to this. You have your choice. You can either stay at this commune, or you can come to Boston. If you stay at the commune,

you'll never, ever fucking see me again, or come to Boston, Cambridge. Yeah. So I was now fitting in in the commune. How old were you? I was 12 Cambridge. Yeah. So I was now fitting in in the commune. How old were you? I was 12 now. Yeah. And 1973, 74, 13.

Yeah. And it was the first time I was kind of reunited with my dad again, and I didn't, you know, when you have not had a father or a mother and you could look at something and know it's your blood, just even if it's drunk blood, high blood, whatever, I could look at my dad's eyes and go, I know those eyes. And I loved him. I looked up. My mom was like an enigma.

My mom was like an enigma. And my mom always told me, I never really got jealous of women because my mom said, you can be anyone you want to be and look however you want to look. And all you ever want to do is look like her. Right. And, you know, without the teeth being knocked out and the bra over her dress. So you go to Boston. So I go to Boston and they just started the busing. There was so much racism and anti-Semitism and just disgusting.

Like, I grew up with black kids. There was no prejudice. You know, I lived in black neighborhoods. So my dad sent me to private school. He said, I don't want anyone to beat the shit out of you. And he was now with this new woman, Oriole. So now I'm introduced to what it's like to be with an alcoholic the likes I hadn't seen. Yeah.

And he had two sides to him. And when my dad was on, he was as charming as can be. Yeah. And the dark side, he would punch holes through the wall. He took my guitar once you know smashed it um and then i remember he said you know the next time i drink a little too much just put on the beatles we can work it out i'm like is that before or after you smash my my my phonograph just tell me so i was i learned really young if i was sarcastic and didn't raise my voice, I could say how I spoke.

If I got loud with my dad, because I was seething, I was enraged that he left us, it would get violent. So I think those were the roots of- Did he hit you? Yeah. Yeah. Not a lot. Yeah. Nothing like out of I, Tonya or anything.

Right. So you go through high school in Boston? I finished high school in a year and a half, finished prep school, graduate with honors, and then my dad decides he hates Americans. He was always, I get to England, he hated the English, I get to America, he hated Americans. Right. So he leaves me in Boston,

and now I'm like kind of homeless for a few months and then I rejoin him in London um but I had friends by now but I was I was now experiment you know I was I lost my virginity very early. How old? 13. How'd that happen? This older kid. Yeah. And I was drinking and I was very little alcohol. I would always get sick. Yeah.

And then I slept with one of my teachers. At prep school? Yeah. When you were? 13, 14. Really? And I didn't know. He he could have gotten a lot of trouble i really did keep i really never reported him yeah but um i'll never forget i won the

philosophy award do you regret not reporting or no you know what i don't i now like you know what, I don't. I now, like, you know what, I don't. But, you know, when you've been like wrongly touched and mistreated, like I was talking to somebody about sexual predators, like for someone who survived it, if Harvey Weinstein would have said, listen, do you mind watching me take a shower naked? I'm like, you're going to make me sixth lead in your movie? Here's the soap, here's the towel. You're my guest.

But my friend Jeannie said, when you haven't been touched inappropriately, it's inappropriate. When someone's been touched inappropriately, they don't know the difference, and it's all about survival. There's no boundary there. There's no boundary.

So you're saying that you were a few months on your own homeless and you start what you started doing drugs and stuff or no i never i went back to the commune and i couldn't go back so who's flying you back and forth no my friend uh frank moss who was from the commune i I was in New York. I ended up going to Ithaca. He paid for my bus ticket. From Boston. Yeah, and now I'm like 15. I'm like, now I'm 15. I'm out of high school. Finish early.

I'm starting to put on a lot of weight. I don't know what's going on. I'm just feeling, I'm not really drinking or drugging that much. I just wanted to look like a skinny model. I just was so unsure of myself. I went back to the commune, and you couldn't go back. So I ended up staying with my friend Esteline,

who lived on the commune, and I got a job as a dishwasher. I was trying to get waitress work, and I was so shy. I was painfully shy. I would walk in, and I'm like, for anybody? Yeah. And Esalen said, why don't you use your acting ability? Yeah. Did you just go into a, I said, what?

She goes, yeah, talk with a British accent. Like, talk with a British accent. Is that something you did with her, like, for fun? All the time. I was always, hello. Yeah. So I said said I was wondering if you were looking

for any waitresses I just came from London and I would really like to work here he's like well I don't need

any waitresses you need a dishwasher fine I'll take it I'll be a dishwasher you'll be a dishwasher and you had to do the accent for eight hours

I had so much I was so afraid I said that's when I got the job but I'm a dishwasher but for eight hours i had so much i was so afraid i said that's when i got the job but i'm a dishwasher but for eight hours i'm talking a british accent right she's like tell them you were so desperate i'm like no no no no i gotta no i can't like the role of a lifetime and then i told my dad my dad's laughing on the phone yeah Yeah. And I'm like, you find this funny, Dad? Yeah. This is my acting role? This is the world? It's my oyster?

Yeah. Like, well, you know, this would be a wonderful story, darling. And you'll work on your accent. It's quite funny, really. I mean, for you. I'll work on your accent. And you just kept laughing. Wonderful story.

Yes. I called it Big Grace. It was like, again, my savior, saving grace. I'm like, I'm a dishwasher in Rochester with a British accent. She's like, you just come back to Brooklyn. We'll figure something out. And she sees me. And I'm like, black hair, magenta lipstick, 50 pounds heavier and I remember hi big race and she was

like terrified like what happened to you and then she goes you look healthy yeah I'm like that means fat and she's like no no we're putting you on a no we're going to see a good nutritionist. She said, now you have your choice. You're either going to go to Betty Owen's Secretarial School. And I'm like, I'm meant to be great. Or you could be a hairdresser. Because I used to give my doll shared haircuts. So I went to Betty Owen's Secretarial School.

And she goes, one day when you get ready to win your oscar you go thank your typewriter so it was the slowest one in the class but i typed like 22 words a minute never knowing it'd be like my saving grace and i used to get nervous when i'd have to take typing tests because I was with MTV I was this I was trying to go to now I got I got a scholarship to Lee Strasberg I got accepted at NYU um and how'd that all happen I auditioned for Lee Strasberg Theatrical Institute when you were at that when I was 18 after you did the secretarial school you got a job in the city and you're going in I was a temp I was now a temp all over the offices in New York, and I would always fail at the typing test.

So I learned how to see the test, know that they would turn it around. It used to be a lot easier to cheat. So I would take the actual test slowly and say, I'm ready for my typing test. It would be the actual, and I remember like. It was already written down? I remember getting in an MTV. I was at MTV when that just opened. You were temping there?

Temping there. And they said, wow, you type 76 words a minute. I'm like. Yeah. Yeah. So when did you audition at Strasburg? Strasburg was when I was 18. And this is when you were temping and

stuff i just started temping i had to work before i could get my typing up i was working as a cashier i had to work as um uh like a sandwich maker i couldn't i had to get my typing skills up and i knew that if someone would hire me i would practice yeah so that's why I had to cheat and then big race was like if you gotta lie to survive you do what you gotta do don't lie unless it's to survive then you can lie so I was like all right thanks for the wisdom so what happened to Strasburg Strasburg was the most you got got in. You auditioned. I got in. When I got in, I was so happy. I studied with Al Pacino's teacher, Charlie Lawton.

Oh, yeah? I just wanted... For how long? How long were you there? Like four years I was there. Really? So you auditioned there or you went there to work as a temp? No, I auditioned there.

First class I had to pay for. Oh, I see. So then they offered you, like you could work. Well, my teacher said, you know, she's talented. She put in a word for me, and that was Barbara Portier. That was Sidney Portier's cousin. And I remember thinking that I went. She said, do you know why you're in my class?

And I said, well, obviously, because they must have seen something. And it killed her to see, because, no, they thought you had some emotional issues because you were painfully shy, and I'm a psychologist and an acting teacher, and they thought you'd do well with me. And then I started to excel, but I remember the first time

i learned about method acting it was humiliating because i thought you just think you're talented you know you just think that you've got something yeah and i'm doing my monologue i'm overacting and i'm just like and then the train and this came and no one looked. No one even gave a damn. Yeah. Scene. And she's burst out laughing. My teacher burst out laughing.

The students burst out laughing. And I start to feel the heat. You know when the heat starts to. Yeah. And she's like, Van, I'm going to call you Van. I want you to do that again, but just say it. Just say it. Say the words.

I'm like, but there's blood in it. Just say the words. Just speak. And I started to speak. I started to feel connected with what I was speaking. And the emotions just came out of something organic and she said that is the beginning of acting uh-huh and that was the that was like the beginning that was the journey wow yeah so you're there for four years four years and then when did when when and how do you start doing comedy did you did you go was was the only school you did was uh the method studio was with

strassburg or was method and then my teacher was like you know use this when you need it yeah if you're emotional don't this is now throw out everything you learned right when you get taught that like yeah learn all this yeah throw it out right so now i was in my early 20s. Yeah. My dad was now on to the next woman. My sister was already born. He met a woman in London. I moved back with him briefly in London. Then he moved. He lived at 355 Mercer Street, and he gives me that place.

And I'm living with, again, all these hippies. You can hear them having sex. Yeah. And it was just, and then. But you're in your 20s now. I'm in my 20s. Yeah. I'm working like a dog.

I'm working like 80 hours at Dean and DeLuca to pay for my acting class. What year, 90 something? This was now 89, 90. Yeah, right. And, no, 80, like the 80s. Yeah. The 80s. And long story short, 1984 he dies.

Big Race dies. My life is like. Your old man dies and Big Race dies? The same year. Yeah. The same year. And I'd been in a fight with Big Race. We'd never fought.

If we did, we always made up. And that was a Tuesday. We fought on a Tuesday. And I couldn't stand not getting along with her. And I went to call her on Thursday. And they said, she's gone. She died. She ended up having like a leg amputated.

She didn't know she had diabetes. And I never got to say I loved her. Then my dad was screaming at me for his old girlfriend. I never got to say I loved him, so he was just screaming. Then I had no idea. How did he die? He died in Bolivia. I believe it was from a bleeding ulcer, but I believe it was due to,

he said they were running a jojoba plantation, which I think they were running a cocaine plantation, and jojoba covered it, but he was getting thinner, and he'd send me pictures. He used to write really tiny, because in prison, he learned how to write really well. His writing was now getting just erratic, and he was getting thinner and thinner,

and I remember thinking, something's not good here and he passed away and uh we were always fighting by this point and um and big race helped me through big race said he's like rumple still skin can you see him like as a cartoon character yeah just see him as a cartoon character yeah and i'll never forget if you start yelling she had a horn she like, just blast him with this horn. So I remember my dad screaming at me. I'm like, Dad, can you hold on a second? Yeah, what? What the fuck?

An air horn? An air horn. Yeah, yeah. And then we'd just start laughing, but she took away, she helped, she humanized the whole situation she made him more

she made him more cartoon like which made my rage and his insanity more palpable and they both die in the same year

same year it's terrible that was that was a shitty year and that was like in the 80s in 1984

and my dad said the world is gonna to end in 1984. And his world was going to end in 1984. It's like he saw his own premonition. And I'll never forget when Big Race died, my mother and I went up to the roof. I was listening to Wishing You Were Here by Chicago. And she said, you must feel like you lost your own mother. She's more of a mom than I ever was.

I was like, yeah, but you're still my mom. You'll always be my mom. So it almost took me two years to recover from that. And so I was to associate, as I began to understand recovery, addiction, codependency. You started going to meetings? I started going to meetings. Which kind? I was a potential drinker.

You were drinking? Very little, but I knew. I was like, I can't be like my dad. I cannot. So I barely had a problem, but something said, just go to a meeting. Yeah. And then at 29, I was in Astoria.

I'm like, I just wanted to be a cop on a series. I just wanted to act. Now I'm just a secretary. You were living in Astoria? Living in Astoria. My friend said, you know what? When you tell me what your day at work is, it's so much funnier than the shit I see on TV.

You should be a comedian. I'm like, oh, stop. No. She goes, I'm telling you, you're funny. That's because you love me. I'm telling you, you're funny. Just try it. I'm telling you, you're funny. Just try it. I'm like, come.

And I'll never forget, that was 1992. Within two years, I had a development deal. And everything came together. Where'd you go on first? How'd you start? Gladys's Comedy Club. And I brought all the girls from the office. And I went on like four hours later.

And I remember getting on stage going, no one would even laugh at Richard Pryor if he came on at this point. The second I was on stage, I was like, I'm home. Like no one could take this away from me because I would always be doing plays if I could. But I was always like the director the actor the yeah and then I was a musician too I was always getting the band together

learning the songs trying to get the gigs and I'm like if I do this on my own no one I I can only let myself down and I could be independent and I won't need to rely on anybody for anything I won't need anybody I remember seeing you around early on I guess at the strip or stand-up New York and you did some you were you're big broadly a brassy act and you did some characters right and uh but you you were you were definitely uh like sort of high energy and like you really got the crowd, you know, and that was like right from the beginning you were doing it like that? Yeah.

Well, I went to audition for Lucian. Lucian Holt? Yeah. My friend said. Booker of the comics. Booker of the comics. Part owner, right? Was he part owner?

No, no, not part owner. He wanted to be. They never let him. Oh, really? They really, yeah. These are a million years. They never let him. Oh, really? They really, yeah. These are a million years. They never let him get a piece of it? They never let him.

And I'll never forget when he got deathly ill. And I said, Lucian, you've got to let them know you need help. You can't go on like this. And I was like basically a nurse by now and bandaging him up. And he's like, no, no, they can't know because I might lose my job they'll lose I'll lose my job and it was the first time I was like holy shit you're vulnerable yeah I felt like like you know the Wizard of Oz yeah oh my god interesting but let's we'll get to that so so in 92 you start doing comedy in New York clubs.

Did you get passed? Where were you passed? Where did you work in? How did it unfold? I was doing gay rooms. I couldn't get any. I was Michelle Ballon. Do you know Michelle Ballon?

I think I remember her. She said, you can come up with us to Provincetown, but you have to do some gay songs and be gay. I'm like, but I'm not gay. She's like, well, you're going to have to act gay because I'll get stage time yeah so we had to do like so I went up there and I was like and I'll and I got one of my jokes from there because I was like wow they're all gonna come on to me they'll just want me and I'll be straight and not one of them looked my way I always never forget that yeah yeah and michelle said because you don't smile wouldn't kill you to smile yeah and then illusion um they said i was told he was satan he was lucifer he will don't get involved with him he will destroy you there's

the mid 90s and he was the he he had the well he was the the entry way to the comic strip right and had been for years yes and he saw him so i'm the i'm the gatekeeper at the gate yeah i have to tell who comes in and who comes out you should think god this guy's really full of himself but did you audition for Yes. I was in there for an hour and Michelle said, I knew how badly you wanted to be passed at the comic show, but I thought you were blowing him.

I'm like, no, that came later. He passed me and he goes, you do these characters, I don't know anything about you. I'm like, yes, but I'm an actress. He goes, well, so you say. I mean, he was so, I go, well, but I am. Well, so you say.

No offense. I don't know you. Now, I want you to go on stage and just talk to the audience. I don't know what to, no, they're here to listen to me. No, they're there because you need to, like, I don't know what to no they're here to listen to me no they're there because you need to like I don't know what to say to an audience he goes where'd you get that tie

where are you from you just and I said but I'm not going to get laughs and I'll never forget he goes Vanessa I'm giving you permission to bomb and it was like one of the so he let me kind of bomb and it was like one of the so he let me kind of bomb and um i remember he goes and what did that do how did that help you it made me feel there was at least someone in my corner if i didn't

know well i'd get a spot and he would only give me spots like a tuesday night once every eight nine weeks and i was he was always talking politics and everyone was always talking I would just have my notebook and be shy yeah and he'd say uh you should talk to people it goes are you a lesbian I'm like no I'm smart why if a guy comes in here with his notebook he's straight but if I sit here with my notebook I'm a lesbian he goes well you were wear an army jacket you have short hair you have magenta lipstick, you don't talk to anyone, and you just told me that you were in Provincetown. Yeah.

I go, okay, I could see that. And then Dennis Wolfberg was his dearest friend, and I was going to this church, and Lucian, like no one knew this. I loved Lucian, I think like, no one knew this. I loved Lucian, I think, more than he loved, I was, I loved him more than he loved me. Yeah. I, the. He went to that Unitarian church.

Yeah. Yeah. And I was going to this other church, and they got this, like, southern windbag minister. Yeah. And it was around Easter, and I just asked him what church he goes to. He goes, oh, you're an Italian universalist. The only time you hear Jesus is if the janitor stubs his toe.

Yeah. Would you like to join me for Easter? He just lost his best friend, Dennis Wolfberg. I remember. He literally, and he liked me for Easter. He just lost his best friend, Dennis Wolfberg. I remember. Literally. And he liked me. Yeah. And all I'm hearing is, Satan, you'll be destroyed.

All that work for nothing. You'll never, if you sleep with this guy, you're done. You're history. Why did people say that? That's what they said. I don't, they were frightened. Men and women were intimidated by lucian all right so you go to church with them go to church with them and then we i'm starting to

talk about you can come up to the podium and speak and my mother finally got hired at the welfare office after being on welfare for 18 years the welfare office finally gives her a job yeah working at welfare. Lucian thought my hippie parent jokes, my mother stuff, he thought it was all, he said, you seem very well-rounded, grounded. He said, your parents really, I said, yeah. He goes, that wasn't made up. I said, no. You did it at the church?

I did it at the church. I said, my mother did a lot of drugs. She finally gets hired at the welfare office, and she gets fired. She was like last hired, first fired. And he said, then he said, would you like to grab some lunch? I'm like, all right. And he said, your dad, you joke about the LSD. And I said, no, no, that's really true.

And then he's an intriguing, very intriguing. Yeah. And then his friend Dennis Wolfberg died. And he was kind of fond of me. I could tell it. And I was like, this is really fucked up. I'm attracted to him, but this is fucked up. But this is, you know, and I couldn't think straight

because it was like so taboo that it was exciting, but so taboo but this is fucked up but this is you know and I couldn't think straight because it was like so taboo that it was exciting but so taboo that it was fucked because he was the young club owner he was a club owner

he was also a father figure I never had he also was emotionally removed which made me associate love with longing

he like had the trifecta of being the perfect kind of messed upness for me to just want but he wasn't explosive was he um no he was just no but it was his way of the withdrawn withdrawn and removed and i just would win my love would win him over i was kind of pounding at the door. Yes. I would win him over. But, yeah, when we first moved in together, he said, I said, listen, I chain smoke. I'm on the phone a lot.

It takes me a couple hours to dry my hair. But other than that, I have a really effervescent personality. Now, is there anything I ought to know about you? Keep the toilet seat up. You clip your toen's in bed. Yeah. And he goes, if you disappoint me in any way, I will withhold all my love from you. I'm like, oh. And you're like, great.

Great. And I was like, yeah. Literally, great. I'm moving in. I will not disappoint. So you're doing comedy a couple of, yeah, literally, great. I'm moving in. I will not disappoint. So you're doing comedy a couple of years. Two years, yes. And then you get seen by who?

Get seen by Amy at Chicasso Davis. I had a huge showcase at Caroline's. She was supposed to be at the Montreal Comedy Festival. Tony Camacho was my manager. Right. And I said, you know a let me I want to work on some new stuff it was the first time I was at Caroline's that ever had so many laughs in my life I didn't even like if you want I seen the original tape when you look at it there's a I'm I'm just

registering getting so many laughs yeah and there was there was a joy. Like, we lose that. Have you ever, like, watched your sets when there's joyfulness? Yeah. And then you're trying to be so technically proficient and nail your bits and you forget to smile? Right. You know what you love? Sure. It was a good night.

It was a great night. And she was there? Amy Antricastro Davis said, we sent out a fly to 500 people she was the one and she said i was the one person that didn't go up to montreal comedy festival she goes uh i want to see you in my office in two weeks your entire life's going to be different yeah so i bring my contract into my tent place i'm like like, this is, they really like me. And I don't even take it seriously. And she says, she takes the tape.

I take this work tape, never knowing that that work tape was going to get me 60 meetings in all of Los Angeles. And Drew Carey. But you fly out here? Fly out to LA. For meetings? For meetings. And these are for? and Drew Carey. But you fly out here? Fly out to LA. For meetings. For meetings.

And these are for? Meeting after meeting after meeting. To get a development deal. They all want to give me development deals. They all want to. Right. And I feel like, I feel like Cinderella.

Uh-huh. Like, I didn't know what was happening to me. And, Jeff Abagoff who's out there he wrote this show called The Billy Club Carsey Warner

said please go into business with us and all I knew was how to be loyal it's like you go with you don't just

I didn't know a bird in the hand is better than two in the I didn't know a lot if I would have known what I knew now I wouldn't have been but I just thought

loyalty so Drew Carey so you're going out I didn't know a lot. If I would have known what I knew now, I wouldn't have been. But I just thought loyalty. So Drew Carey. So you're going out with the guy who's on my porch right now with his show. And Carsey Warner wants to do it? No, they're just bringing him in as a writer. Carsey Warner's like. They got a show. Yeah, we got a show, The Billy Club, which he wrote.

They said, just stay with us, Vanessa. Oh, okay. They offered you the deal. They offered me the deal. They said, we'll give you $100,000, okay. They offered you the deal. They offered me the deal. They said, we'll give you 100 grand. Right. And we're taking you off the market.

I had a meeting at NBC. They said, look at this Drew Carey show. Here's the pilot. Right. We'll write you a sixth lead and give you 260 grand. Just please, we want you to be with us. And Carsey Warner's like, I'm going to give you a third lead and we love you. Yeah. And I'd never like, this is someone who didn't know love from, like I didn't.

You didn't have any representation? I had Tony Camacho. No agent. I had no agent. Tony Camacho. And Tony Camacho wasn't sure who to talk to. And I felt like Lenny and George of Mice and Men, I swear to God. And I didn't know what was happening,

and I just thought, just hold it together. And I turned down the Drew Carey show. I remember seeing it thinking Kathy was funny, the one with all the makeup. Drew, I thought, he reminded me of Clark Kent. But the Billy Club was a cop show. I knew I wanted to be a cop, and then that show never happened.

And then everyone in New York was a little bit jealous of me. There were some well-known comedians that were like, oh, she does that performance arts shit, whatever she does, or she's fucking the owner, whatever nasty things. Right, you were doing characters, and you were dating Lucian and you got this deal for 100 grand. I wasn't quite dating him,

but everybody knew he liked me. I remember that. There was stuff going on. Well, I remember the reaction. It was more about like, you know, you don't even doing it, right? You didn't pay your dues. You know, how does she get that two years in?

Who is she? Doesn't even work at the real clubs right right right so you and then lucian wanted to be out with us i'm like lucian i have everything to prove there's not one i will say we're together when i'm passed in every single club and it's on my terms you won't say you're in love with me. This is after you started dating? Yeah. So what happens to the deal? So you come back with your $100,000.

No, I give them back. I said, just take me off of this. Here, you can have like $40,000 or $60,000. Gave it back. What do you mean you gave it back? I just gave them back their money. Why? They wouldn't let me audition for anything.

I was just sitting there. Pilot after pilot after pilot. Oh, they had a hold on you? Yes. For a year? Yeah. I said un get me out of this deal and that's when i auditioned for suddenly susan that was back to back with janine graffalo they were like you're not quite janine you're not quite kathy griffin um you're kind of in between and they got stuff and i got and i went from being you know hot hot hot to ice cold and that's when lucian said um well you're gonna have to make

yourself undeniably funny now yeah i said but i am funny he goes no no you're gonna be funny and that was i said but surely I'll get another chance. And he goes, you might not. But he said, you will always be able to do this till the day you die. Stand up. Stand up. Like what nursing goes, provided you don't get Alzheimer's or lose your mind or urinate all over yourself, you will always have a skill. Yeah.

I just had such a way of, I said, thank you, Lucian. You think I might not, maybe I want to teach art or something. So you come back, you're beaten up. The comedy community is judgmental. Oh no, now they're like, they're like, Vanessa,

we've got our own back nice beginning failure piece of fucking shit now you're gonna be funny right and you were yeah you got funny and you started dating lucian started dating lucian you got passed at the cellar and it got passed the cell and i was the one was a few and he started living with him? Started living with him. And he already had scleroderma. I just remember, yeah, I can't remember. I thought it was lupus that he had. Horrible. Horrible

scleroderma. What is that exactly? Hardening of the skin. Scleroderma is like Greek. And what happens is your skin overproduces collagen. How did he lose his fingers? Couldn't get circulation because the blood got cut.

This was like scleroderma is everything gets so tight here. Oh, my God. And he described the pain. He said, if you play baseball, he goes, my fingers are so delicate that if I was playing softball and a softball was going to hit me in the crotch as a man, I would let it hit me in the crotch before I would try and grab it. Because it would knock his fingers off?

Oh, my God. No, it would just hurt too much. And I was always trying to find gloves for him, started cooking for him. But I was now, I hadn't been in AA for years. I had no desire to drink. He didn't even think I had a drinking problem. He thought I had a lot of other problems. And I remember that I started to take antidepressants, which I knew nothing about. Yeah.

And I started to go up and up because then he'd howl like a wild animal at night this is when there was a secret life dilution that no one knew the sickness the sickness and the fragileness of him yeah which he kept hidden yeah and i kept it hidden for him yeah but he would howl like a wild animal and i i said you've got to get some help. Yeah. And we researched the fentanyl patch, which you didn't have addiction issues and I did. I had no issues with that. And I noticed that I watched a tape and I was no longer myself.

Like it was a- You were consumed by his sickness. I was consumed by his sickness but i lost my soul i was watching myself do a set so i'm like yeah i want to so i want to do the comedy central presents yeah and i watched one of my sets and i'm like there's no soul my soul's gone this medication is oh the antidepressants but i wasn't crying i bandage him up he'd howl okay lucian here like music i wasn't affected by music sunsets nothing mattered it was just and you thought it was the medication i knew it was the medication but i didn't realize that it was now taking my personality

so i went we were now starting to have marital problems. When did you get married? We got married. Well, he didn't want to get married. He'd already been married twice. And Michelle, his old wife, and I used to work in the office together. We got married 14 months before he died. So you're having marital problems? Marital problems.

And I tried to get pregnant. I had a miscarriage. And then I had the miscarriage. And I was like the miscarriage, and I was like the beginning of how many cruel jokes is God going to play? How many times do I have to fake it till you make it? Keep your best foot forward. Keep a stiff upper lip. And I just started to get angry at God.

I'm like, everything that I'm willing to work, everything that mattered is just take from me. And I remember they had a tour of the Middle East. And I remember saying, I have to do something life affirming now. And I'd lost the baby. I had the miscarriage. I had it in my hand. It looked like a heart. And Lucien was, I'm sorry, honey. You know, it's not meant to be. Of course, I would have loved to have been a father, but with this debilitating disease, it might have been too much.

And I went to the Middle East. On a comedy tour. On a comedy tour. And then we were newly married, and we were starting to have problems. How was the Middle East? It was one of the happiest, one of the most happiest times I'd ever had in my life, performing for these guys, and I knew some of them wouldn't come back. Oh, was it a USO?

It was one of the first tours that went out with them, and I was there for a month. Wow. And we were newly married, and I was trying to get a hold of him to tell him I loved him, and he would be, ah, that's so sweet, honey. I'm two for one in golf. I'm doing very well. Like his golf game was more important than me loving him. He couldn't ever get out of that detachment.

get out of that detachment and when i came and this is where we differed and this is where i learned about men and women when i came home i wanted to surprise him i knew how hard it was for him to drive yeah so he was going to pick me up and i wanted him to like see me throw me on the floor make wild passionate love and he was like oh you're home ah good i wasn't expecting this i was like i was gone from and i remember he surprised him i surprised him hoping he'd be like oh vanessa yes my wife i love you how was it and he's like oh oh i was right in the middle of putting up some paintings of yours and oh, you just surprised me. You know, I don't like surprise.

I'm like, and that was our disconnect and I remember we had a huge fight and I just slammed the door and broke, shattered all this glass. And I was waiting for him to just go, you just immature child. Yeah. And he sat me down and he said,

Vanessa, there's a difference between a demand and a request. And if you could just accept me for being who I am, I might surprise you by doing some of the things you might like. And you did everything to be the perfect wife for me. Did you ever ask yourself if I was the perfect man for you? And I never did. I was so busy wanting to be the perfect wife for him. And then as he was getting sicker and sicker, you know, our love changed. He was the one that protected me.

I was now the one protecting him. Right. And that was when, you know, that was when I ended up going off on the deep end with drink. I didn't know what an alcoholic I was. I had no idea. After he died or during? After he died. So, you know, you were there till the end, you know, next to him.

And you were in the room when he passed? Yeah. Well, I couldn't. We were having marital problems. So I wanted the last six months. He got told to put his papers in order. And I was, I wanted to move back with him. We only separated for a few months because I was, I wanted to move back with him. We only separated for a few months,

because I said, can we get couples counseling? He goes, you knew I was going to die when you married me. You knew that. And I said, but I'm on medication. He goes, well, that's not my problem. I didn't tell you to medicate yourself. I said, this is like Lois W. and Bill W. He goes, but we're not, and I'm not.

And just, Vanessa, things get tough, and you just run away. Just go run, run, run. And I just wanted him to get a little therapy. That's all I wanted was some marital counseling so he could understand that this was killing me. And then my therapist said, he's on the tail end, Vanessa. He's getting ready to die.

You're everything to live. You guys are not. So I called up his friends, and I said, listen, make him food, help him drive, be there. I can't do that, and do not tell him I told you to do anything. You didn't hear these phone

calls so i didn't want him want him to have his dignity didn't want him to know that i was doing anything behind his back so they were making him food certain people were sucking up to him and he knew and he goes you know if they're nice to me now i just passed them it's kind of sad. I used to pass people because they were funny. Now you make me soup and I'll give you a Tuesday night. Yeah. But he was starting to get like, it's like the giant was beginning to, it's like the old dog was beginning to. Break down. Break down. And he's getting humble.

He's getting humble. There's a vulnerability to it yeah yeah made me just get so protective and so you came back i can't no no this was what killed me i said lucian i i really think i should come back we don't have to have sex yeah i you know that's all right and we really couldn't by now right um. I said, I'll sleep on the couch. Yeah. Sleep with you. I really don't care.

You need some. And he goes, I've never been so happy. I'm in pain. But comedians visit me. They bring me food. They talk to me. I hold court here. I don court here. I said, if you come back, all that will be taken away. And I thought,

I know what it feels like to shine. And he had his moment. He let so many other people shine. And I was like, okay. So I was like, that's... And you had gotten that stuff going. Yeah. Yeah. And so then I knew I was at the Bregada. And I'm now seeing him like I'm helping him do the schedule.

He's like, honey, you could do the schedule yourself. And I'm like, I knew that if I stopped waking him up, he would have no reason to live. So my instinct was just keep him alive. So I called the Bregada. I met the Bregada. I'm like, Lucianan i'm on my way home and he's like i'm so in love with my wife like this is what i'm using yeah can you remember to

i picked up some diet snopple for you like this was not him like the days are numbered they knew it and i was with tom carter i'm like we've got to get i've got to get home and monday he was going to do the schedule and see the auditioners and i remember he was like throwing up like like yogurt and he'd gotten now he's about 130 pounds skinny and they they brought the auditions they had a camera rigged up in his. So I said, Lucien, do you want to see the auditioners? And he's like, no, just stop hassling me, Vanessa. Just stop it.

Just let me sleep. I was like, no, this is the third time I've gotten yelled at by somebody I loved right before they die. And I said, all right. And that Tuesday when we had to go do the schedule i i'm he always would be like he'd always be i i knew something was off so i said he loves old movies let me leave the old movies on let me leave the lights on just so when he wakes up he won't feel alone because something's off here and then tuesday he was in his chair his

legs were open he was wearing like a like a burgundy bathrobe and like this but his legs were always closed and i was like lucian i'm here to do the schedule like Like, I didn't, you really do go into denial when someone dies. Yeah. You don't, like, you actually, I'm like, let's do the schedule. Lucian, wake up, wake up. Yeah. And I called Lenny Marcus. And Lenny, I said, Lenny, he's not responding.

You got to, like, come over here. Yeah. And Lenny was, Lenny was, he's gone. He's gone. I said, please, you can't leave me here. He came over? Yeah. And then there was comedians calling.

And then they immediately wanted to do the schedule. He was ever running the comic strip. And I'll never forget this one comedian. He's like, I was wondering if I could switch spots. I'm like, it's a little hard right now because Lucian just died. And he's like, was wondering if I could switch spots I'm like it's a little hard right now because Lucian just died and he's like oh fuck I'll call later, call us two hours later

I'm like this is so fucking comic alright man I'm sorry but can you switch a spot with me so so that was horrible that was pretty that was pretty bad i just started i thought i had grief drinking and when he died he was taking i remember like i'd already like i hadn't really drunk yeah in years yeah oh really no i'd never all those years it's like i started drinking

when he died at 44 yeah and um i remember like giving him a percocet and thinking okay that's for your pain this is for my really you were doing that i was already doing that like if you had it and i remember lisa and walter Ann Walter was with me one day. She took Lucian to dinner. She's like, three fucking hours to eat with that guy. I'm like, yeah. She's like, wow. Because you would eat everything.

And the joys he got was being able to eat. So I learned how to cook food really well. He loved wine sauce. He wished I drank. And I'll never forget saying, I don't know what the really well he loved wine sauce he wished I drank and I'll never forget saying I don't know what the big deal is wine it tastes disgusting yeah and I remember like getting ready to make the sauce yeah and he was like oh fuck shit you know just in the pain and I couldn't and I just I remember going like that. Taking the bottle. Taking a big glass and drank it down. And I'm like, it was as if everything became like the yellow brick road.

All of a sudden, everything stopped hurting. And I had this huge smile on my face. And I was like, here's your dinner, Lucien. And I had this huge smile on my face, and I was like, here's your dinner, Lucien. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I had a glass, and I was like, I finally. Yeah, I'm drinking. He was, there was not happiness. No, you're scared.

Like, you're drinking. I'm like, yeah. Yes. And his look was. Terrified? Terrified. and his look was uh terrified terrified and he said i don't know what i'm gonna do without you and he goes i don't know what you're gonna do without me either and i didn't know that that was i didn't know that one glass of wine yeah was gonna be two and a half bottles a day. Yeah, and that's where you ended up? I ended up, I didn't know that you couldn't mix pills with booze,

and I was at Broadway to do this hip-hop thing where I usually pull my pants down and do a hip-hop version of the Beatles rap. Yeah. And I usually pull my pants down and do a hip hop version of the Beatles rap. And I usually pull my pants down and show my ass. And I'd taken the Valium, the antidepressants, the alcohol, I go up on stage, and the words are like, I'm looking with the words, they're like, I can't get the words out, but I know.

And I'm like, this is really wrong in the audience. I'm seeing going like this. Yeah, yeah. Oh, no. The expression's changing, and now they're terrified. Like, and the mop top, and my dress, I pulled down my entire underwear, skirt, like completely exposed. And Dustin Chafin gets me off stage. And there was this guy, Pauly.

And Pauly said, get this girl a cab. And you can hear she's nothing but a drunk. She's a loser. She's nothing but a fucking drunk. And Pauly said, this girl has more heart and talent in her finger than any of you fucks. Who said you were nothing but a drunk? These comedians. No recollection.

I was so, the next thing i knew i was spread on my floor with the keys and then no recollection i even got home and then i i thought that no one would know what a problem i might have had so i called chris mazzilli and i said you know i think i've been taking a little too much um you know pain uh I think I'm allergic to some of these allergy medications. Like, really? And what did the silly say? He goes, well, it's good, Vanessa. You know, just, you know, trying.

You know, worried about, you know, what was wrong. You know, I was, clearly I was mixing the, so I got off of all the pills. So he was good. He was worried about you. Al Martin gave me another chance. Everyone gave me another chance. So how long were you all fucked up? I was fucked. That's when it started to cost me. I was fucked up probably for that year. And then I started

trying to get sober and I couldn't stop. Where were you living? I was living on 28th Street and 8th. I moved out of Lucian's place. I couldn't live there. I couldn't. Did he leave you anything? Yeah. He left me.

He told this to Corey. He didn't tell me. So similar to my dad. He goes, Vanessa gave me the happiest years of my entire life in spite of this debilitating disease. And Corey was crying. And I was like, Corey, why didn't he ever tell me that? She goes, I don't know. But he told me.

And I wish I knew what it felt like to be loved like that vanessa someone loved you like that i said i wish you knew right yeah i'll just tell her the last moment by somebody else that'll fuck her up and make her a little bit funnier. Right. I don't know. I don't know. People always think, parents always think they're doing you a favor and making you tougher.

Right, sure. Yeah. I don't know. It's hard to understand the dynamics that we seek out. I used to laugh about your mom, the anorexic. Yeah.

Well, she's still at it. Oh, God. I remember hearing you talk so honestly and just thinking, wow. It's like there was so much heart in what you said. I remember one time I was watching you. I don't even that you were full of energy, but full of energy and self-deprecating. You'd always sit on a stool,

and you had some, mind me, a little bit of John Lennon, that kind of thing. And I'll never forget, I was sitting right here, and I was getting ready to watch you, and you went, Vanessa Hollingshead. Now that's intimidating and i remember thinking i said you i me how would how would i ever intimidate you and i said i'm here for you because you're brilliant and you're like all right i just never forget that well you're very intense

you know you're very intense so unlike you right i know i know well that's why that's why i connected we're gonna be talking cats really yeah i really did that's all right so but did you well how long did it take you to get it together how far did you fall i just i'll never forget i was on state and now i was now i was drinking a little bit now i was drinking in the morning you yeah yeah like wine yeah um and i was with a pothead so he'd get high and this was month i couldn't even like i was undateable i'd be talking i'd be out on a date start talking about lucian and i just start crying yeah and so so drinking just began to escalate, but I started to drink very well.

I started to not check my texts. Do not write things on Facebook because you think you're poetic. Do not drunk text boyfriends. You had a list of rules? I had a list of rules and post-its, and I would always have my cats, me and the cats. How many cats did you have then?

Two. We had 20 and 21, two brothers. Kept them around. And so how did you hit bottom? What happened? It was almost like the cat. I'll never forget. I vowed never to be like, I was always the sad sap.

I was either very flirtatious or just start crying. And I'll never forget, I came in and my cat would either be in my drawer, keeping me company, or be on the tape, would be on the chair. And I'd drunk too much and I just went to go shoo the cat. I was always so gentle with him and I remember the cat just the little leg like the little leg

just his cat was fine but the little leg like just went like that and that was my mom like no no it's one thing that I self-destruct but I'm not taking

that cat with me oh you heard its leg I thought I heard a swag. I didn't, but it was enough. And I just grabbed it to me, and I started sobbing, sobbing. And I started going to AA. And that didn't work either. And now I was getting scared.

Then I was getting time and losing time and getting time. Like, wait a second. Was anyone helping you, any of the guys nobody no one yeah um and i didn't i just thought you go to aa and you don't want to drink no then i i had to take uh antabuse and i'll never forget i would drink like i would drink like this if i was drinking yeah you would not know it i learned how to take the mouth spray yeah smile yeah keep a distance like you learn all these little secret rules yeah but i wasn't fooling myself i remember i had all these women that came that weren't drinking and i knew i had a drink i put out a beautiful like lunch for them and i went into the bathroom and i filled up all my wine in a hairspray bottle and i undid the hairspray bottle and i'm looking at myself in

the mirror drinking the hairspray bottle i'm like you might i think you've got a problem and then my psychiatrist he tried the camp rule tried this antidepressant he tried this thing and i'll never and i just thought there's one drug left antabuse where you can die if you drink on it and i said you've got to put me on antabuse and he goes you'll die yeah and. And I said, I'm dying now. Yeah. And I said, it was nine in the morning. I said, do you think I had anything to drink? And he was a substance specialist.

He's like, no. I said, I've already had half a bottle of white wine. And I remember he wrote this script. And he goes, now, I want you to wear a bracelet. Then I want it to jingle. So when you think that you can drink, you'll hear the jingling. That you might die. And it saved my life.

And I'll never forget, like day four or five, looking out the window and thinking, you can eat two cakes. You can fuck somebody. You can tell someone to fuck off. You can just take your clothes off. You can do, you cannot drink. Right. And then I was like, thank you. Thank you, God.

Thank you. And then I ended up going to a rehab in Australia. Uh-huh. And this was like the Harry Potter of rehabs. It was like, I'm an alcoholic. I'm a drug addict. I'm a manic depressive. I'm a compulsive cleaner.

I'm like, God, why couldn't I be a compulsive cleaner? Everything we fucking need to not destroy my career. Yeah. How long were you there? I was there a month. It saved my life. And I was very, I didn't believe in God. When I came back, there was no, I remember praying to Bill W.

I remember having the drink. I remember being drunk one night and saying, well, Lucian, if you didn't think I was a drunk when you knew me, I'm a fucking drunk now. Yeah. Think I might have a problem or not. Think I just have some emotional problems. Uh-huh.

You showed him. Yeah. Oh, I showed, good, I'll show you. Let me drink. Uh-huh. You showed him. Yeah, I showed him. Good, I'll show you. Let me drink. Yes, I know we do that. They told me in the rehab, they said, you might not be able to be a comedian again if you put yourself at risk.

Yeah. And that I couldn't. Now, I was now, I had almost no money left. And this was the turning point for me. I had almost no money left and I was this was the turning point for me Bruce Smirnoff was running

was working at Royal The comedian yeah yeah working at Royal Caribbean he he said

you know I run I book ships I book the biggest cruise ships in the world you're kind of edgy but we'll give you a shot and I was down to nothing I remember putting in four I booked the biggest cruise ships in the world. You're kind of edgy, but we'll give you a shot.

And I was down to nothing. I remember putting in four applications to Starbucks, thinking, well, Louis C.K. might walk in there, and you're going to have to make him a latte, and then you can go back to hating God, because now this is going to be cruel joke. I'm not sure Louis could help you now. No.

I wouldn't have a problem in doing anything inappropriate. I'd be louie do what you got to do i'm so over this shit just put me on your show just don't get my hair yeah so you're applying at starbucks and smirnoff what calls yeah i'm applying for loving at starbucks i'm like okay i guess this is you know this is a new thing in my life i'll just be making coffees and famous people walk in there and i'll make one hell of a latte and but that's gonna be my break that'll be my break my second break and uh this is god obviously wants me as humble as they fucking come and This is, thank you, God. I really, I will just go become a nun. And then Bruce said, so I put all the applications in. Bruce said, can you come down to Florida?

They want to audition you. I'm like, Bruce, I can't even pay my rent right now. He's like, oh. Well, they don't usually accept comics, especially, you know, you're a woman. They don't know you. And I'm like, I just got to get at Starbucks. And then he said, this is strange.

This was a day later now. This was literally a day later. He goes, you know what? Twelve people saw your drinking set, and it's edgy. You got the ship. One word of advice. Don't fuck up. And that was three and a half years ago.

The drinking set. That was about what? That was about drinking. You see, my friends tried so many interventions with me. I just used to leave the plastic folding chairs. Set them in a semicircle in my apartment. They came over. So you've been doing ships for a few years?

A few years. Then I started back with the acting. part when they came over so you've been doing ships for a few years a few years then i started back with the acting um then i just finished doing the vagina monologues great i started to go back with the acting i started to do yoga i gave up smoking gave up sugar weed and flour wow basically well i'd kind of given up sex but that that was just, you can't meet anyone in New York. You're all gay. I mean, I love gay guys, but you've been to New York. A lot of pretty women, a lot of gay guys.

Really? You can't meet anybody in New York, on the entire island, anywhere? I try. All right. Where are you living? 28th and 8th. Well, I'm very happy for you.

It was a very great conversation. I'm all choked you. It was a very great conversation. I'm all choked up. It was so amazing. I listened to all your podcasts. I was like, God, I hope I'm good. He's so good. What are you talking about? He made my week.

He made my month. Good. Well, I'm so happy you're okay. You're wonderful. You are. That was a great story. I really enjoyed talking to you. I really enjoyed being here.

That was some story. Huh? Great to talk to her. I'm very happy we did that. I feel like we needed it. I feel like it was, I don't know. There's just some people you're like, how's she doing? And that's how she's doing

and she's doing okay and it was great to see her I'll play a little guitar it's just the same guitar Thank you. Boomer lives. contained so you'll never have to do any installing or upgrading but if you do have a question squarespace is award-winning 24 7 customers cunt but if you do have a question square sit oh you fucking ball sucker but if you do have a question squarespace is award-winning 24 7 customer oh no no oh no oh god Oh, no, no. Oh, no. Oh, God.

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