WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 924 - Holly Hunter / Amber Tamblyn

Episode Date: June 13, 2018

Holly Hunter left the family farm in Georgia to become an actor. She talks with Marc about her early days in New York, catching the attention of the Coen Brothers as they were on the verge of making their first film, and everything that followed, including her foray into voice acting with The Incredibles and its new sequel. Also, Amber Tamblyn returns to talk about being a new mom, fighting for gender equality, and how it all relates to her new novel Any Man. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing with cannabis legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category.

legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! store and a cast creative all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fuck sticks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf thanks for being here if you can if you can't tell i'm in another hotel

room i've driven down from upstate new york i am now in new york city woke up very early this morning to put on my new clothes to go do uh good morning, to promote GLOW. Did a very short segment. It's very odd when you get up and go into that machine early in the day. It's the first time I've done GMA, but I've done the Today Show before. But I wore my new sports jacket, my new shirt, and the shoes that I bought with the suit I bought for the award show. Those of you who keep up should know these are the first times I'm wearing this.

I haven't bought a goddamn sports jacket in forever. But I figure I'm a grown-up. I should be able to have something to wear. So I got suited up, got in the car, got up there, was put into some holding cell. And then all of a sudden you just see, we go i saw john ham and ed helms walking off this weird set of gma where people are just seemingly haphazardly put around different stages and i'm let out and i sit down next to a blonde lady who was very fit and very focused

uh i don't i'm not even sure i got her name i'm not even sure i was introduced i never met her before but there i was sitting across from her and like the doing a five minute segment it's just like bing bang boom here's a clip what's up they had me reflect on anthony for about 25 seconds they asked me about my jacket and me buying clothes because they read about it on the update that i send people every week for about 25 seconds. Talked a little bit about glow. Somehow got off track. Talked about cocaine, which was caused a little bit of a, you know, when you're on ABC and you're doing a Disney outlet, they get very nervous about what I couldn't even say WTF to promote the podcast.

And then I talked about my character on glow doing Coke. And apparently there was a bit of a moment or two of panic in the control room as to whether or not we would have to shut down the show. I guess that's the world we live in. But I made it my own. I didn't say I was doing it. I didn't promote it. I said it was in the past and it was a character thing. I guess I did all the right stuff to not have a we'll be right back card go up in the middle of Good Morning America. No technical problem.

Color bars card had to be dropped. No commercials had to be run abruptly. It all went okay. So now I'm back in the room. I'm just tired, man. I'm just fucking tired. I feel like I'm always tired. Just like doing the jobs, doing the jobs. But thankfully, got a full show today. Holly Hunter. I talked to Holly Hunter back in the new garage a few days ago. I think it was like three days ago I talked to Holly Hunter back in the new garage a few days ago. I think it was like three days ago I talked to Holly. She is in The Incredibles 2.

She is the voice of Mrs. Incredible. But before, Holly, I'm going to spend a little time with Amber Tamblyn. She has a new novel out, Any Man. It comes out June 26th. You can preorder it now wherever you get books. I did a section of her audio book, and it was great to see her. But before I get into that, I'd like to also say that I am in New York, and I don't know if I covered this before. It seems to be in the life of a Jewish person that there will be many days where you walk around smelling like onions and fish. And for some reason, lately, when I get to New York, I compulsively go to Russ and Daughters.

And I didn't go to the cafe this time. I went to the actual store because for some reason I've been on this no-carb diet with very little sugar. So it seems like there's very few things I can eat. But I don't know if it's really working that well. I just inhaled an entire jar of cashews. Could that be antithetical to what I'm trying to do on a weight loss level? Perhaps. perhaps, but for some reason, I immediately went over to Russ and Daughters and got two fillets of Magis herring and just a mound of pickled onions on top and put that, yeah, they put that in a plastic container. And I got a few slices, four slices, about an inch of

beautifully sliced smoked sturgeon, just to travel back to the old country of my genetics, just to take a little journey through my genes back to Poland and Russia. So that happened. And then, of course, there's a problem with having interactions with people for hours, for hours. Just fish and onions. That's what's happening. I even got a little bit of it still now.

All right, so Amber Tamblyn, it's been a little bit, but she's been on the show before. We've talked for an hour plus about poetry and other things. She's married to my dear friend Dave Cross. They have a child. We talk about that a little bit. We talk about her new book, Any Man a Bit. We talk about cultural momentum around women's issues and stuff like that.

It's a good conversation. I'm glad she stopped by. It's always nice to see Amber. This is me and Amber Tamlin back in the new garage. It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls?

Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly.

Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Inf bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. and how's the baby she's pretty fucking cute yeah um she's just started to walk she's doing

she's making a lot of eye contact uh-huh while holding objects and then dropping them as if to say yeah what are you gonna do about it if to say, pick that up. Fucking pick that up. What are you going to do, mom? Pick it up. And then you're like, I'm not going to tell her. Oh, pick it up. Yeah, you pick it up.

How's old Dave doing with a baby? He's amazing. He's quite an extraordinary dad. Oh, yeah? Yeah, he's really, really a good dad. Dave Cross dad. Yeah, Dave Cross dad. Oh, you did it you did it yeah and he's getting ready to go out on another um tour we're doing two tours together actually um i know i saw that yeah uh it's gonna be wild where's he been running the material

um he's been all over the place he was in chicago he was at um playing small places i think like medium small yeah some but mostly working a lot of the material out at the knitting factory and places in brooklyn and new york oh good yeah so the book you know i i read the book i read my part of the book yes and uh it's uh it was like it was heavy because i i i wanted to do it for you. I'm glad I did it. I think I put a lot of work into it. I can imagine, and when I said, you know,

after Barry had passed away, and I said... Barry Crimmins. Yeah, and I said, I don't know what I'm going to do. I framed this around him, and then, of course, it struck me, and David's like like i actually think as much as i love barry i think i think mark is a better choice like he can really do this guy who this guy is oh good well i think that's good well i'm glad it's a compliment i'm glad i got uh dave's vote of confidence no i i had i was very engaged with the material and i thought it

was very intense but i get a sense of of the book and the project of the audiobook. Because it's not poetry. I think people are used to reading poetry. But it is prose poetry to a degree. A hundred percent. Yeah. And I actually, I find that more, to me, more interesting with novels, certainly as a writer of fiction now. with novels, certainly as a writer of fiction now, but I'm not really interested in the traditional models of how fiction is written. And for me, there's really not anything that I can do that doesn't have some form of poetry in it. Of course.

And so for me, it was about changing the structures. A lot of the other characters are not written in the way that yours is. Some are told through, you know, just purely through their searches on the internet or through tweets. Or then there's some that are just like really long sort of beautiful pieces of prose. Right. But they're all very separate and very unique. So what was the, like the, because this is not long since your last book. I mean, you know, I feel like, you know, the book of poems, which I imagine was done over a long period of time.

Yeah, Dark Sparkler took seven or eight years to put together. But that was really like an exorcism, like an existential metamorphosis. And this book took about three and a half years. Really? Yeah. metamorphosis and this book took about three and a half years really yeah and i i as a writer i i sit and i think for really long periods of time um i don't write incrementally i sit and i think i incubate and then all of a sudden i write everything in like four months very quickly it's why i still have carpal tunnel in my left hand i've had it for two years

it comes and goes i get it in my right hand. I've had it for two years. It comes and goes. I get it in my right hand sometimes too. I have a lot of ailments with my arms. Yeah. From writing the way you do? Like intensely writing? My acupuncturist would say I am too curled into myself, which I think is a pretty accurate representation. Armadillo, kind of like armor, you know, stay away. That's exactly right. Right. Wow. Because I was under the impression that the book was a reaction to what's happening culturally.

I mean, the timing of it. I know. I could have never foreseen this in a million years. Like you've been very engaged with Me Too stuff and with your own story of dealing with predators and weirdos and men. So I thought that this was like in reaction to that, but this was kind of going on before. Oh, yeah.

I thought about this over, I mean, the Me Too movement is still in its little baby infancy. And it's about as old as Marlo, my daughter. And this was three and a half years ago. But I will say that this is, I should say what the book is about. The book is about a female serial rapist who attacks a group of men over the course of two years in the United States. It is it is both, you know, a conversation aiming to, I think, resensitize culture, specifically rape culture. But it is also its aim is to sort of show the stories of men who are also fall prey to sexual violence and harassment and and even forms of intimidation, especially in the entertainment business. It's rampant, but it's not really talked about because women are at the forefront of it. And it's predominantly happening to women. And it's also because you never really meet this horrible, horrible woman, Maude, who does these things. You never meet her in the book, really. I was able to, the writer in me was really able to let my imagination run away with how people described her and what the media thinks of her and how CNN turns her into, you know,

part animal, which is what is based on some of the men who have described her in what they remember and what they don't remember. So it's also commentary on how we sort of mythologize women. And to me, I was really fascinated by- And murderersers and murderers. Yeah, all of it. Yeah, I was fascinated by the idea of making a female protagonist who didn't have consequences in the way that I feel that men often don't have the same consequences that we do. the same consequences that we do. They don't have to speak for them necessarily. And what would it be like to have someone who wasn't, it wasn't revenge-based, it wasn't going after a John or a dad or an ex-boyfriend,

but it was just purely psychopathic. It was purely for power and for the enjoyment of harming people. Not unlike most male predatory rapists, killers. Which is not about the act of the sexual harm. It's about the act of the power. Right. So when you say resensitized, what does that mean? I think, you know, for the most part, I think conversations surrounding sexual violence, I think that they are, frankly, I think people are bored of talking about it.

They're bored of reading about it. They get, people get upset for a momentary amount of time. And then before you know it, it's back to business as usual and things don't really change. And for me, I wanted to de-gender the conversation for lack of a better word. I wanted to really take that away and say, listen, this is a problem for everyone.

This is a problem that affects all races, all genders, all peoples. It is systemic. It is endemic to our culture. And if we're going to start having real facilitated conversations about how to drastically revolutionarily change things then we have to push buttons and we have to start creating art that changes the way we think about things we can't it's not enough just to tell the story we have to open the mind of of the country and of the world frankly we have to change it's, it's endemic in the culture, but it's also endemic in Western civilization. Absolutely.

So like, if you're going to track patriarchy, right, it's not just cultural. It's the way shit is. Yeah. And it's also, you know, the other, the other conversations happening in the book that I think is most prominent and your character who you voice in it is really sort of one of the people that starts rallying against it is, you know, the book is an indictment of journalism. It's an indictment of our culture of social media and the way in which we perform care, the care of survivors, the care of women's stories for short, for short amounts of time.

And then it's onto the next one. It's sort of this in this 24 hour cycle. And we, we honestly do more harm than we do good. Well, I mean, I don't know. Myself included,

by the way, I'm on Twitter. Like I feel the same way when I am going, is this helping? Am I helping? Yeah. I kind of pulled out of the Twitter. Like I,

I, you know, I do it promotionally. Yeah, David just did that too. And like, I'll occasionally I'll answer questions Twitter. I do it promotionally. Yeah, David just did that too. And occasionally I'll answer questions, but I don't engage with garbage. And I just don't do it. I never did Facebook.

So wait a minute. You practice self-care? A little. Yeah, believe me, I'm doing damage in other areas. Fair enough. I mix it up. You know what I mean? No, but it's self-care in the sense, but I can't get off my phone in terms of news.

And in the same way, we do kind of nullify and numb ourselves to, you know, it's just like, boom, you're literally just punching yourself in the face with information. Yeah. And it's very hard to, you know, I've got a hard time dealing with not so much empathy, but like, you know, the weight of others pain uh in personal life yeah so like to deal with it like you know every day with news and then to be you know have your ideological sensibilities and and your sense of justice and everything else you know kind of you know attacked every day yeah i mean i don't know how we stand up to that shit but i i think

that taking the time to write a novel where, you know, you have to think about it in a completely different way, especially something that is as memorable as what this book represents. I mean, you know, it could reconfigure some synapses. Yeah. And I think it'll probably upset some people, too. You know, there's already been a couple things here and there, especially women saying like, you know, you're not helping anything by taking our pain and suddenly like trying to give it to men and by flipping it, you're taking away from us. And I just fundamentally do not believe that. And I think if we're going to be talking about what this idea of equality means, really getting past the point of telling telling stories which is what the me too movement did so profoundly and beautifully and moving towards actionable change like what are we really going to do to change things so this doesn't happen so when my daughter grows up you know i don't have to hear about her going into a meeting where some guy's going to pull his dick out in

front of her well i think scaring the shit out of men is working a little bit. It is. And it's also it's it's also I understand it's like it's drastic and it's scary. And, you know, I have said and I feel like men only like war when it's their kind of revolution. And when it belongs to to others, then maybe it's a little like, whoa, whoa, whoa. We should slow down here and maybe have a rational conversation but every time i i come up against this and every time i talk to a man most mostly liberal men too um those fuckers those fuckers about what they think the answer is you know and i say okay fine we're we're this it's a witch hunt where we've gone too far

it's we're in the backlash. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Put your fucking coin word in here. What's the answer? And they don't ever have an answer. They don't have one. Well, I think the answer, just from a personal reaction and thinking about my past and my behavior, behavior. And I think that the simplest thing in terms of what it's provoked me to do is just to be mindful of where what I'm doing is coming from. That's a lot.

No, that's all of it. No, meaning you have no idea how unique that is. And I think a lot of men are really, they push back against that. They resist it. Yeah, they resisted yeah they resisted well you know it's just like do i need to touch her shoulder is this flirting am i acting out am i being you know inappropriate is this is this space not you know why am i saying that the whole thing the whole whole excuse too about how uh how now like no one's going to be able to

flirt anymore no one's going to know what to do in the bedroom. Like all of those things are, are performances and they are, they're deeply disturbing to me and because they're disguised as ways to stop the larger work that's being done because they know that's not true. If you have an ounce of understanding, you can still go fucking have some chick put heels on and step on your balls. You can go do whatever. Do I have to do that?

Yes, you do. Okay. Kinky, weird, amazing shit you want to do. As long as there's one word involved and that's consensual. Right. It's like, it's not that hard. And if it takes you having to maybe use a few words from your mouth to ask or to figure out a way to say that like then that's that's what it is okay okay all good no and also the the i think the the conversation about uh you know the

kind of um the the power struggle or the or the you know the misuse the abuse of power in work environments, no matter how small, is really, I think, it seems to be the heart of the cancer. Yeah, it is. You know, like what people do at home and how things are misunderstood or not. I mean, those are conversations that have to be between people. Yeah. Right?

But what really resonated with me and what really made me think a lot was that even if you're in a workspace for a month or for a couple months or a week, that there's a dynamic there where it's not about the other thing. Yeah, yeah. So if you're acting in a particularly inappropriate way

in a workspace, what is that about? Yeah. Really ask yourself about that. And then you go deeper with that and then it's sort of like, what is is that about yeah you know really ask yourself about that and then you go deeper with that and then it's sort of like what is it all about you know how do i really see women yeah and then also if you're if you're not that person right yeah why are you also not if you're seeing it happen to a woman speaking up right that's the other problem is that we've got a world in which men have more allegiance to men's careers and livelihood than they do to women's physical safety. And that's really a problem. And so they feel like, well, it's not my thing. I don't want to get in the middle of it. Or she could be exaggerating. And they always go to the things first that would mean that she's a liar and that she's not telling the truth. And that's one of the biggest problems that we face.

I think the fact that we are even having this conversation, you know, you and I sitting here in your garage. Yeah. Like having this conversation is in and of itself the manifestation of that change. And as painful as the last six or seven months have been for a lot of people and many people that I know, you know, I think that it's so important to realize that this is really where it begins, the questioning and the wondering. Yeah, and you can't change things overnight, right? You can't, just like you said, you can't suddenly say,

everyone has to be different. Immediately stop. Go. This is a learning curve. And for men, this is generations upon generations since the beginning of time of behavior. And so it's incremental and you just have to be diligent and persistent and and not waver. Yeah. Right. And also it requires men like me, like slightly, you know, recovering assholes. Recovering assholes. I love that. Yeah.

I mean, like, you know, look. My husband's a little bit of a recovering asshole. He's still an asshole, but he's a recovering asshole. Different kind of asshole, me and Dave. But yeah, yeah. He was sort of a cranky, self-righteous asshole. Yes, that is correct. Ding!

Accurate. Yeah, you don't want to argue with Dave, do you? Yeah. You should try to be in our household in the last six months. Oh, my God. He's stubborn, man. Yeah, he's really stubborn. Has the kid softened him?

Oh, totally. I'd love to see that. Yeah, he sings to her and he says funny fucking things while he changes her diaper and makes her laugh and is really good at distracting her. Oh. And I just get frustrated. Oh, that's sweet to hear. He's just an extraordinary dad. Great.

Definitely. How has having the kid changed you for the better? I think having a kid has weaponized me in a lot of ways. Oh, yeah? Yeah. In the sense of her future? Her future, but also my past. When I think about the shit that I tolerated before,

when I think about what I am worth and having known that as long as I've known that and the ways in which I've let people stifle that. And they really weren't, you know, I wasn't letting them. I was letting myself be stifled. You know, you can't blame other people for what's going on with you. You can only sort of look at your own actions with that. And so for me, so much of it has been about just what I won't tolerate.

It's pretty straightforward, and it's really nice to be able to go, oh, I get it now. There's something for me in this experience that's so important that all this other bullshit, like you said, doesn't matter. And I refuse to bend. I refuse to waver on it. I find that like so much of that, looking back on stuff and not wanting to, you know, seeing who you were, understanding who you were, and realizing that you were vulnerable, insecure, not aware that, you know, maybe, you know, you left yourself unintentionally or unconsciously vulnerable to whatever.

Those are hard lessons to learn, but it's better than on some level just reacting early on and becoming a monster because of monsters. I completely agree. Some of it's just the natural evolution of sensitive people. I completely agree. It still doesn't make

it any easier but no of course not yeah and also to be aware for your kid you know to to provide whatever you know missing self-esteem you had for whatever fucking reason i'm to speak for myself as well well child actress that's mine sure sure but like you know why why were you, you know, right. But nonetheless, it's that like there is, there seems to be a way, I think, to give children self-esteem and sense of self or at least provide the environment to do that. I'm not sure that I was, even though I was, it was a finely funded environment, was not a great environment emotionally. Right.

Right? Yeah. That adds its own weight for sure. Yeah, because you think everything's good. Look, I get what I need. not a great environment emotionally right right yeah that adds its own weight for sure yeah you because you think everything's good look i i get what i need i got clothes and my you know i we have a nice life and my parents that we have money and whatever and i'm completely emotionally incapacitated wow but but that's what it happens right were your parents together when you were little or did they divorce no they were there they were just are they still married they still no no no they were a little self-involved you know got it yeah so you know i had to kind

of figure some stuff out on my own yeah so what what made you get public about james woods oh that's like one of those ridiculous um well i mean that's a weird question i mean no i'm glad you did but like it was just seemed to be like was it just sitting there yeah i okay so army hammer and i did a movie together he's a friend of mine we did a movie together in spain years and years ago it's been around that long yeah it was like some small uh-huh some small movie yeah um and uh and somebody i know had retweeted this thing that he wrote. And it was just one of those things, sitting on the couch, clicked it, saw him say something to James Woods, who I did not know. I knew very little about.

I certainly didn't know that he was such a conservative talking piece and also just a overall prick. I didn't know any of that at all. And so I saw him, you know, this argument that was going back and forth about him. You know, he didn't like Army's movie because it's about Army having, you know, a relationship with a younger man. And then Army called him out and said, what are you talking about? You date 17-year-olds. And I did not,

I did not also know that that was like a James Woods thing, that that was a thing he was known for. And then a memory popped into my head and I was like, oh, wait a minute. I remember when he tried to pick me up at Mel's Diner when I was like 17. Yeah, I was 17. I remembered it because of many factors. And I even like, I called my dad to double check and he's like, oh Yeah, it was 17. I remembered it because of many factors. And I even like, I called my dad to double check. And he's like, oh yeah, I remember when you came home

and told me about that. And you knew it was James Woods. Oh yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. You know. He's memorable.

He's memorable. You never forget that fucking face. No. You never forget a predator like that. And so I just tweeted it. I think that's so indicative of the time we live in, too. You just tweet it, but you forget you're living in a world where people are watching. And because I think, because of the election of Donald Trump, because of so many factors, really, people were ready to pop off.

They were ready uh you could feel it boiling under the surface for women and a lot of men you could feel this sense of like this is not happening anymore and there's a riot is about to go on and so it just turned into this huge thing and uh and i would have never gone further had he not like gone out of his way to give an interview to Variety or one of those things and call me an outright liar. Uh-huh. And I was like, I will fucking throw a brick through your life, motherfucker. Yeah? Did you? Yes.

And it is the reason I have a contributing writer for The New York Times was because I wrote a piece there, which was widely read called I'm done with with not being believed. And it really was this idea of like, you know, this this this idea that you have to go out of your way to prove yourself on so many insane levels yeah um it's it's so unfair uh and oftentimes um you know women have to come with like a stack of papers of evidence for a small thing like that happening and that the first reaction is to always second guess uh the woman well that's but that's all part of the paradigm of you know the bitch is crazy yeah that's right right that's all part of the paradigm of, you know, the bitch is crazy. Yeah, that's right. Right. That's absolutely right. That's one of the, it's on the top five checklist of patriarchy. Oh, that bitch is lying. She's crazy. Yeah, that's really true.

And, you know, I think that was, and that happened like three months before the Harvey Weinstein story came out. So it was really in the air. Oh, was that early? I didn't realize the timing of it.. So it was really in the air. Oh, was that early? I didn't realize the timing of it. Yeah, it was like three months before. It was the reason that the article was so read and distributed. The one about not being believed. Yeah, that Jodi Kantor from the New York Times,

who at that time nobody knew, was working on the Weinstein piece, asked to speak with me through a friend. Oh, really? I didn't have anything to give her, but I didn't have any Harvey Weinstein stories. Right. But yeah, but you were sort of proceeding. But I knew about it. I knew it was happening.

Right. And it was starting to build. Yeah. And you were one of the first things to pop off. Yeah. It was sort of incremental. There were many of us that were really doing it. And then, you know, I think I'm also a founding member of Time's Up. And one of the great things that we've been doing, you know, Time's Up was like a thing that was a bunch of really pissed off angry women who got in a room together and just were like, what are we going to do? We're not going to just be angry anymore. What are we going to actually functionally do yeah how can we help yeah yeah and and that was and that to me is the catharsis that's that to me is what makes me not feel like a crazy person is to go okay we started times up so that nobody ever has to say me too again so no one has to do it that's the point and how's the momentum how are you guys still uh engaging and yeah i mean it's a it's huge now um still engaging? Yeah, I mean, it's huge now.

And it's, you know, like all movements, it's like it's had its criticisms. And it's like trying to fly a plane while you're building it. It's hard. It's fucking hard. And you get hundreds of people with big ideas who are geniuses in their own right. And you're trying to like create a plan to shift Western culture as we know it. It can't be done overnight. So, but I think the progress that we've made is absolutely extraordinary. things we did with the launch of it was at one point the women of the farmworkers union had signed um a petition or a letter to us saying that they stand with the women in the entertainment business so we wrote a response letter i think there was over 200 of us um uh basically saying we see you and we we hear you and we stand with you in this effort to change the farmworkers union and even in the restaurant business and all these other businesses.

And we tied that with a legal defense fund, which has raised over $30 million so far, which goes towards basically helping both men and women who are victims of harassment and sexual assault in the workplace. I went out with a woman years ago. I don't know if Dave knew her, but she once said to me, and I can never forget it because it seems to encapsulate a lot of stuff. She's a sculptor, a very tough woman, an interesting character, but she used to bartend at a strip bar, but she wasn't a stripper, but she used to bartend. I think it was in Boston, and she quit't a stripper, but she's a bartend, it was in, I think it was in Boston.

And she quit, and I said, why'd you quit? And she goes, I got tired of men looking at me like I was food. I like her, I like her. But good luck with this book, I'm very happy about it. I'm happy to see you. I'm happy to see you. I'm happy to have been part of it. Who are some of the other people in part of the audio book?

Because that seems like a whole other thing, the audio book. Yeah. So it's Ben Foster. Oh, really? Yeah. I want to meet that guy. Oh, he's, okay.

I cannot wait to text him and tell him you said that because when I, I was at his house two nights ago and I told him I was coming to do this and he goes oh god I want to meet that guy I shit you not so he's a fan of yours and sometime I'm going to connect you guys you need to interview him yeah I do and I talked to Orin or is yeah yeah Orin yeah yeah and you know we had a long conversation me and Orin and and he came up

and I'm like sort of half obsessed with Foster. You'll become more obsessed once you meet him. Uh-huh. Yeah, he's a dark knight of the soul. Huh, how'd that happen? In the best possible way. Okay, I'll find that out. Well, I'm glad we're on the same page with that.

Yeah. So he's one, yeah? He's one, and John Roberts, who's Linda and Bob's Burgers. I haven't heard from him in a while. I haven't seen him around. He moved to Jersey. He's one, and John Roberts, who's Linda and Bob's Burgers. I haven't heard from him in a while. I haven't seen him around. He moved to Jersey. He's in Jersey. And my dad, Russ Tamblyn, a wonderful actor out of New York named Glenn Davis.

Yeah. No, Slappy? Slappy did do a voice for it, and then I had John come over and do it instead. Because the character is gay gay and, you know. Oh, no. Did David do his gay guy? He was gay. Right.

Yeah. But then it was actually, you know, it was David who was like, I think this is a bad call. And I think you should get like one of your rad. He did not say rad. David Cross did not say rad. He said one of your gay, gay friends. Yeah.

He just said, get the real deal. Yeah. You have it. Right. You have it. So go get it. I think that gay friends. Yeah. He just said, get the real deal. You have it. Right. You have it. So go get it. I think that's right. Yeah.

Oh, good. All right. Well, when's it out? The book is out June 26. It's called Any Man. And you're going to send me one so I can read it on a plane? No. Thank you.

again amber tamblyn's new novel any man out june 26th you can pre-order it now wherever you get books listen folks i was excited to meet holly hunter wouldn't you be it was very uh just this year come over to the house show up say she liked my house we talked a little bit about patio furniture front porch furniture and then we went into the garage and knocked out the conversation so as i mentioned before holly is the voice of mrs incredible in the incredibles 2 which opens everywhere tomorrow june 15th and this is her and i talking about a lot of stuff uh back in the new garage uh me and holly hunter now Back in the new garage. Me and Holly Hunter now. Sound good?

Good. I'm just going to put this down so I can actually see you. I think that's a good idea. I appreciate the impulse. A lot of people, they don't know how to do a mic. God knows you know how to do a mic. Well knows you know how to do a mic well you're an animated we're here talking about a movie where i was at a mic yeah i was it was so interesting this guy at disney the same room you would probably be really interested in this room it was um the same room where they recorded jungle book louis prima came in and was oh yeah playing with his orchestra yeah and uh

but the the guy there doc he's the sound engineer he's outfitted the recording booth yeah with all these kind of the the the microphone is on a um an automated he can automatically move the mic with, with remote control from his booth. Oh. And normally, you know, the guys are doing it, it's like analog.

I mean, you're coming in and adjusting it. Yeah. But he can do it from the booth kind of soundlessly. Yeah.

So as you're recording, he can move it. Oh, really? It'll just, the mic will just start moving? I guess it's less, it's not as rude either as someone coming in going,

could you just focus on them? A cut, hold on Holly, no. Yeah, it just adjusts. And they have these bars that fly down that you can hang from if you're doing really physical stuff. Oh, so you can get the... You can kind of get the feeling.

It helps, right? There's a bar also that you can push up against. So you can act.- You can kind of get a feeling. It helps, right? Or there's a bar also that you can push up against. So you can act. Or you can like pull it. Yeah. Yeah. So it's kind of, it's, Disney is obviously animated wise. They're set up for, they got the legacy.

Yeah, of course. It's the original place. So like, so you're at the old lot in this old room. It's so beautiful. It's so humble. You would love, you would particularly, I think, love it. You can feel the history of everything. Yeah, it's very humble.

Very kind of, like, very low key. Where is it, in Burbank? Yeah. Yeah. It's in Burbank. And I don't know, I just, I particularly love recording there. And how long did it take to do this movie? About a year and a half, maybe a year and a half.

Wow, really? But yeah, I mean, for me, though, it was nothing. I mean, for me, the animators were like breaking their asses to do this. Right, I guess that's what you're not. I was like coming in once a month and hanging out with Brad and having some laughs. Yeah. Those guys were like working, you know, 24-7. Doing the sales.

Because I guess all that's done on computer now. There's no guys sitting around inking, are there? Yes. Those guys draw. Yeah. Those guys alter. And then some of them do their stuff on the computer. But it's still a phenomenal thing because, you know, they'll go, you know,

so-and-so is like on fire. She did three seconds yesterday. It's like if they do a second a day of film time, a second. That's crazy. A day, then they're booking. Wow. So what's the storyline of this one? Well, it's funny.

This movie. The Incredibles 2. The Incredibles 2, Brad, the feat of the movie is partly the complexity. Yeah. Because it does feel like there's about five movies in one. Yeah. And he's able to weave them narratively together in a way that it's like they're necessary. Right. It's inevitable.

Have you seen it? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, look, I think the movie is dazzling. The movie takes place like 14 seconds after the last movie. Okay. And it's 14 years, but in animated time, it's 14 seconds. Okay.

So, like, basically the family is in the exact same position of jeopardy that they were in when the last movie ended. Picking up right there. With the Underminer, the bad guy, coming after us, coming after the city. The superheroes are still illegal. And the parents still don't know that their youngest son, the infant, Jack-Jack, has crazy powers. Right, right. So they don't know that. That he's really a superhero.

That he's a superhero himself. They think that he's a normal baby. Yeah, yeah. All right. So you have all of those. It's a common problem with parents. Well, in fact, probably most parents would agree that their baby is like super in some weird way. A genius.

Like a genius in terms of like never sleeping. Yeah, yeah. But anyway, so that's where we start. And like the first movie was incredibly popular. It's got a huge following, right? The Incredibles operates on, it's not necessarily for children. I mean, it certainly is a movie that children can enjoy. Yeah, yeah.

But Brad, this guy, Brad Bird, he's a bit of a genius. Yeah. Yeah, he is. Why? Because he can get all the balls in the air. He knows how to really he's one of those guys that seems like it's expansive. Yeah. He's kind of a high-low guy. I mean, he's got real high-brow, real low-brow humor. Right. He's kind of a high-low guy. I mean, he's got real high-brow, real low-brow humor. Right, right. He operates on a kind of uber-sophisticated level, and visually, it's really sophisticated.

Right. Well, that's the trick. He has great passions, great visual loves. Yeah. And he's got a great, the Disney legacy. Yeah. And, you know, he's a real historian. Oh, really?

Oh, yeah. Animation. So he's a Disney nerd. Himself. You know, he's a real historian. Oh, really? Oh, yeah. Animation. So he's a Disney nerd. Himself. An animation nerd. Yeah, I mean, he's got a, that's really where he comes from.

He's highly, he's highly educated about the history of animation. Well, that's great. Yeah. Bring a lot to it. Yes. Yeah, I mean,

it's sort of like, I mean, what's the interaction as an actor when you work with an animation director? I mean, is he in the booth? I mean, what happens? No, I mean, it's sort of like, I mean, what's the interaction as an actor when you work with an animation director? I mean, is he in the booth? I mean, what happens? No, he's not in the booth. I mean, you know, this is the only animated movie I've ever done, so these two.

So I don't know how these other guys do this. Yeah, because I've done voiceovers before, and they're generally, like, someone's usually there. You assume one of them is a director. I don't know. You know, like, you're just in a room and someone says okay yeah they're talking to a disembodied voice yeah and then they're on the phone right right okay we're good i think that's it right yeah you're good go hold on just a second and then there's silence because they're conferring right but there's none of that with is what brad is in in the room. Oh, he's there. He's right there.

Oh, okay. So you are... He's you and I'm me, except we're both standing. Oh, so he is directing you. There's a microphone between us. Right. And it's just really... And he is the director.

Yeah. And it's just between him and me. Yeah. There is no conference. He's going, yeah. Yeah. That dad, you know, and he'll have a suggestion and then he's like, great.

And then we move on to the next scene. Isn't it easier to make adjustments when it's just your voice? You know, and if a director goes, can you just give that to me a little, maybe tired? And you're like, yeah, no problem. Absolutely. As opposed to like-

I can be tired. Yeah, but like when you're on a set with a bunch of moving parts and it's live action you know to sort of get a note and then reconfigure it into the entire scene it's a big deal but with the voice is just sort of like yeah sure let's try it a couple times i don't know but the the live action thing mark that's what that's what i I know that. I would never call it live action. Well, I don't know. I just meant it. It's just acting. Right.

I meant it as opposed to animated. Right. Right. But live action, where did that word come from? That's a knife. I see that. Yeah. And it's got like places for your fingers.

Yeah. I don't know where it came from. I actually do, but it's not really. I just, I found it. No, it's a know where it came from. I actually do, but it's not really, I just, I found it. No, it's a cool, it's an object. I don't know where live action came from. I guess live action came from, you know, a lot of, you know,

at some point there were so many animated movies you had to draw a line. Yeah, a line must be drawn. Right, it's a live action movie. Real people. Right. I always feel kind of sad when I i i find myself occasionally accidentally saying it what live action yeah yeah have you read tree of smoke no i haven't read that dennis johnson dennis johnson he's great great oh man right i love him it's like really amazing books

like yes do you i i watched you like you worked with my friend, well I guess we're friends, I mean we're certainly contemporaries, Kumail and Emily who I know well. You love it, huh? Yeah, I love Kumail. You love doing that movie?

Yeah, no, I love those guys. I miss those guys. You do? Yeah. I was just so funny, I was thinking about them this morning going,

ah, you know, I miss them. But you live in New York? Yeah. So when you come out here, do you have people you visit? You could have maybe dropped over, said hi. No, no, no, definitely. I mean, you know, I've got so many great type friends in L.A.

Yeah. In some way, some of the greatest friends that I have live out here. Yeah, from a life in show business. That's right. L.A. collects great people of course why do you stay in new york ah you know i just i love new york yeah i can't get new york out of my head are you in the city yeah yeah and and you still you don't think it's changed a lot or you changed phenomenally and in good way or like you say uh you know i mean i think giuliani just like

he just wrung a lot of the edge out of the city back then you know but but now like yeah i don't even know what you're right i don't know yeah i was there i was there in the 80s and i don't even know like i don't know where were you where were you second Second between A and B. What? 1989 to 1992. Oh, man. Yeah. That's edge. Yeah, it was a war zone back then.

But now, like, you go there. You were stepping over needles and stuff. Oh, absolutely. I mean, yeah. And there were point guys. There was a whole racket going. There was a doorway next to my house where they line up to get the dope. And now there's a nice cafe there.

It's a nice little cafe there. In exact place wow everything's changed yes everything and some of the edge maybe it was nice to not have to look over your shoulder like constantly well i think that like you know like when i think it's a little too soft right well when they did time square there was like tough but it is pretty spectacular do Do you know what I mean? Like, I think like, I'm of two minds about it. Like, do we really miss the porno theaters and live sex shows and, you know, Port Authority being a complete fucking shit show? But it still is. Right.

Port Authority is like, wow. Do you remember that place that- What are you doing over there? The Penn Station? Oh my God. Yeah. Did they tore that down? Did they tear Penn Station down?

Well, I mean, it was like- It's under Madison Square Garden, right? No, it was the one that was just beyond magnificent. You got to see this documentary about it. Oh, really? You got to check. Well, I mean, it's truly mind-blowing that they tore this- The old building down?

Yeah. Yeah, I just think that Times Square, it's touristy and it's weird, but the lights and everything. It's like if they took a wrecking ball to Grand Central Station. Oh, come on. It would be exactly like taking a wrecking ball

to Grand Central Station. That sounds terrible. The monumental... Of Penn Station, the original Penn Station. Yeah. I don't remember it. It was much bigger than Grand Central. It was a massive building.

I love Grand Central. Yeah, me too. I love going in there. It's New York. It's beautiful. So where'd you grow up, though? In Georgia. Georgia?

Yeah. Like rural Georgia? Yes. Really? You know, actually not that far from Atlanta, but it was, you know, I grew up on a farm. And what'd they have on the farm? Hay, cattle. So it was a cattle farm?

Yes. And hay. And your family were cattle farmers? No, my father was like a gentleman farmer, but the farm was a fully working operational gig. Right. And I've got two brothers who live and work on the farm still yeah so it's the family farm is still in family farm is still happening yeah and like how many acres how many cows like 150 acres oh my god no no sorry 250

acres um and it's huge i don't know how many cows they have. But for a farm, it's small. 250 acres is small when you've got the farms out in Texas that are like 30,000. I guess so. That's true. You know, it's really pretty, you know. And is it a dairy farm? Beef.

So they make meat. They're meat cows. Meat cows, often referred to as beef cows. Yeah, beef cows. And did you work on the farm as a kid? No, no, no. Not at all? No, my father was a true, true blue sexist.

Oh, really? No working on farms? No, girls did not do that kind of thing. Girls should wear dresses and help their mother set the table. Uh-huh. So that's what you did. That's right. And what did your mother do?

Just the older version of that? An older version of setting the table. Yeah. Making the food. My mom, you know, she was a, what do you call it? Like, she was a housewife. Yeah. That's what you call it. That's what my mom did. A farmer's wife, it sounds like. She was really, she, but no, she was a housewife. Yeah, that's what you call it.

That's what my mom did. A farmer's wife, it sounds like. Yeah, she was really, but no, not a farmer's wife. She was a housewife. Yeah. She was a 50s housewife. You know, very, very much in that tradition.

Yeah. Yeah, and did, so your brothers are older or younger? All older. I'm the youngest. There's three of you? No, there's five brothers you no there's there's five brothers and one sister you're oh really you have five brothers and a sister so there's seven

all together are they all still around they are they are is everybody friends yes oh that's good we we see each other you know actually we we all got together for The Big Sick. Uh-huh. Did they love the movie? Yeah, they loved it. Oh, that's great. Yeah, yeah. It's nice to hear about families that kind of keep getting along and everybody's, no one else is in show business.

No, no, no. So they're all excited for you. Well, look, you know, I think it's important to, I mean, for me personally, it's really important to kind of to keep that connection. Yeah. I think you have to make compromises. There are things that you maybe you don't want to discuss. You know, there's stuff that you don't want to have come up. Money and politics are generally two good things not to talk about.

And it's also but it's fairly easy to avoid those topics is it even even in this day and age i can absolutely avoid both of them with ease but no one's pushing your buttons um my buttons are not really pushable it's just like and i i step aside yeah you're not going to do it no because i feel for for me the priorities are really firmly in place it's like there there's there's i'm i'm yeah i'm an adult and i can i can handle it i can handle it and i don't need to talk to you about that right you know where this conversation is over i love you let's eat dessert right yeah yeah you know let's. And they know. Everyone knows. Yeah. You know.

And they get it. They, I think everybody's, you know, obviously, if you have, still have a connection with your immediate family. Right. For the length of, you know, your entire adult life. Yeah. It's because people have a certain, you know, they got priorities and they've got boundaries and everybody understands, you know, what the lineup is, which is you want to keep this intact.

That's right. And as long as you don't lose- It's important. Yeah. Right. And as long as you don't lose your shit and cause some drama that could last for three, four years, 10- Or 20. 20.

Yeah. You want to avoid the 20-year meltdown. Yeah. Yeah. The one meltdown that lasted 20 years yeah that's what a waste that weirdness uh that hasn't happened that most people like people have some at least six degrees of separation contact with that kind of fallout oh yeah yeah you want to avoid it i've gotten years without talking to my dad at some point i don't know that i lost those

years i mean he's still around so it doesn't you know it doesn't feel like i made a tremendous I've gone years without talking to my dad at some point. I don't know that I lost those years. He's still around, so it doesn't feel like I made a tremendous mistake. Right. Just had to be done at the time. Right. Sometimes these things, they're inevitable. Yeah. So, I mean, I imagine, well, I'm projecting.

I imagine that because you're from the South that there are some lines that are drawn politically that must be challenging. You're speechless? So what else can we talk about? Not even going to talk to me about it. That's all right. No, I mean, wow. That's huge. That's huge. Yeah, it's tough.

And the lines that are drawn from one state to another now seems so massive. And so. Yeah, it's a trip, right? But, you know, Georgia, it's very interesting. Yeah, because Atlanta is like, I mean, I work in Atlanta. But Georgia could, you know, because of the black vote, I mean, Georgia could turn blue again. Sure. But I was just trying to, I mean, because people are so, there's been a lot of activation.

Yeah, sure. Reaction. Yes. Everyone's like waking up. People are woke. Yeah. And Georgia is experiencing that big time. Yeah.

So it's kind of going from violently red to possibly blue. Yeah. It's exciting. It's exciting. It's exciting when Americans all of a sudden realize that maybe they have to engage in the political process. I know, man. You know what I mean?

It's very hard, even for me, where you're just sort of like, what have we been doing for 30 years? I know. It takes a state of emergency. Exactly. That's unfortunate. For almost anything to happen. I know. Do we have to go this far?

Yeah, we don't, but it's sort of like I think people just get disconnected, detached, bored with the political process. They get the thing in the mail, they're like, I don't even know where I'm going. Who's this guy? What is that job? I need a glass of wine. Sure, yeah.

I need some wine. I'm not going to make it over to the voting place. It's dirty. Can't we just do it at home? Yeah, you can if you send the thing in. Oh, did that already come? Yeah, it's fine. So when you left Georgia, were you like, I got to get the fuck out of here? Yeah. Yeah.

Although, yeah. I would say that that's true. I love living in New York. Yeah. And I don't have any desire to live in the South again, except I will say I find New Orleans an incredibly seductive original city. Right?

It's like its own thing. New Orleans, it like its own thing. New Orleans, it's its own thing. And I find it really powerful. When I go there, it's just like the pool is just so beautiful. It's almost mystical. Mystical. Right.

And I hope New Orleans never loses that. It doesn't seem like it's going to. Yeah. I was there not too long ago. I didn't feel like it was like, ah, this isn't the same. There's still that thing. Great, man.

Well, just the thing, like just looking at the buildings, it's like there's nothing like these buildings anywhere. It's like down to the architecture. There's nothing. What were you doing down there? I did a show. I did a stand-up show a couple years ago, I guess,

and walked around a bit. Do you like doing stand-up? I do it a lot. Yeah. I did a stand-up show a couple years ago, I guess, and walked around a bit. Do you like doing stand-up? I do it a lot. Yeah. I do it. Yeah. I like doing it. Do you come to New York?

Yeah, sure I do. Do you go to Comedy Cellar? I mean, where do you- I do the Cellar sometimes. Yeah, I used to go there a lot when I lived in New York. And do you like the intimacy of the Cellar? I mean, how- I like making it- Or do you like the bigness?

Do you like going to the Beacon? I like making a place the size of the beacon intimate. That's like that's what the challenge that I've taken upon myself. I was just at Royal Festival Hall in London. It's about twenty six hundred. And I like bringing it in to where it feels intimate. I mean, that's been the evolution of what I try to do, as opposed to rising to the space. Let's bring the space in. And how do you do that? I mean, what? I sit down.

You know, you sit down, you talk directly to people. Right. I mean, it's like, how much energy do you want to exert? And what's the quality of laugh that you want, how much do you want to be engaged? I think it's a matter of engagement and taking emotional risks that create an intimacy, not just going beat to beat. That's like theater. Well, that's interesting. I mean, I immediately just kind of thought about Spalding Gray.

Right. Yeah, that's a good one. And how Spalding would just kind of bring it, he would just bring it into him. We'd just be sitting at that desk. Right. Yeah, that's a good one. Spalding would just kind of bring it, he would just bring it into him. He would just be sitting at that desk. Right. You know, and talking to people. It was just like he controlled, you know,

he controlled the closeness. And he made it. He demanded that it be close. Well, I think that's if I could think of, if I could cite somebody that does something that I find that I would aspire to, it would certainly be that. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, and I think you can do it with any space.

I really do. I think theaters are built for that in a certain way. They kind of crave intimacy. The idea of spectacle is a whole other thing if you're a rock concert or whatever. But if you're in a theater, you've done theater. So when you get out there, it's visceral. You can feel the presence of the audience. You have a sense of their investment and their emotional attention. And when you just talk, to talk off a mic in a big space, people are like, what's happening? Yeah, that's interesting. I mean,

just to sit down at the Beacon's that's kind of a radical act. I think that's cool. I did it at Carnegie two years ago. Oh, wow. And it was a Carnegie that much. Wasn't that wonderful? I love the feeling. Yeah, I think I should have had. I did love the feeling. But like I kind of I it took me a while to get grounded because I was nervous and emotional and I couldn't believe I was there. And I was sort of, you know, winging it a little bit for about like a half hour. I was just floundering around.

But once I leveled, but that was another situation where I'm like, I got to make this intimate. And there was a point in the show where, you know, I wanted, my dad had sent me a text that I thought was hilarious, but I'd left my phone backstage and I wanted to read it. So I was in a very improvisational place, even at Carnegie Hall. And I was asking someone to bring me my phone from backstage and no one heard me. So it became this little mystery in the middle of the show. Like, are they going to bring it? Is this going to happen? Are they?

Is this? Am I talking? Yeah, exactly. And then someone appeared at the door. Can you hear me? Exactly. It was that. And when they finally showed up, it was a very exciting moment for

everybody wow and did you feel the the acoustic i mean did you feel the wood definitely of the liveness of that room definitely as opposed to the beacon i've never done the beacon yet but definitely i you definitely feel carnegie you feel the whole history of it you know there's like totally i just i i can imagine i i can only imagine what what that must be like to look out because i love to go to carnegie it's like yeah it's like sort of yeah i i love places where you can hear you know like that are designed for instruments you know where you can hear like just anything so what about disney oh yeah i've only been there once i've not seen a show there. I've not seen a symphony.

Would you? I would go, yeah. I like Lincoln Center. I've performed in opera houses. You don't like Lincoln Center? You don't like it? Yeah, but, Matt, Disney here. I know.

It's pretty. You've got the Kremle Krem. I mean, Disney is unbelievable. Isn't the Kremle Krem? Oh. Yeah, man. Have you been there? Oh, yeah.

Yeah? Tons. I mean, I love to go to Disney. Yeah. Whenever I'm in L.A., I try to go to, I mean, Esa-Pekka Salonen. Yeah. And then you guys got Dudamel. Yeah.

I mean, two of the greatest conductors in the world. Yeah. I got to get more into it. You guys have. I know. But I don't know that world. Like, a lot of times, if I'm in New York, I've started to go to see the jazz, you know, over to see Marsalis and those guys at Lincoln Center.

Right. And then like, but I just do it. I don't plan it. Like if I'm in the city and I'm like, you know, I got a little money, you know, what's over there? You know, like I did that at Lincoln Center. I don't know. It's like, all right. So they're playing a little bit of Beethoven and some other shit.

I don't know these people. But how bad could it be? It's at Lincoln Center. I don't know these people. But how bad could it be? It's at Lincoln Center, right? So you just pay the- But I would say, I mean, if you could see Dudamel here. Dudamel is just, he's such a visceral conductor. I mean, I think he brings out like a, he's just, he's a world-class guy. Yeah.

You know, he's like, he's very very he's very visceral i mean i i think that the kind of music that he draws from musicians is really he's got a really global influence he loves you know a real international sound from his musicians i think you know he would be a great guy i'll go to just go listen to and watch what he does. Yeah, I appreciate you telling me to do that. I mean, I'm really jealous that L.A. has him and that New York doesn't. Well, now I feel like it's an asshole and unsophisticated. No, no, man.

No, no. It's a treat. You're going to get to go to Disney Music Hall with one of the great conductors who brings know, and who brings a, I don't know. I'm excited. Kind of an earthy feeling to classical music. But do you know classical music well? No, not really. But you just like that dude.

But I like the L.A. Phil. All right. Well, I'm going to go because, like, I've been wondering how to enjoy life, and this seems like a step in the right direction. Well, you know, definitely go there. And then you can also check out the space and go in the right direction. Well, definitely go there. And then you can also check out the space and go, hey, you could perform there. Oh, I don't know.

Because that would be incredible. I mean, you would probably adore that. It might be. Yeah, it might be exciting. I performed at the Symphony Hall in San Francisco, which is another big, huge acoustic space. I don't know that. Well, here's the issue. I learned a weird lesson.

It's about 1,900 seats but it's a space where they do comedy sometimes for whatever reason. If you can get people in there. I sold okay but there's a giant organ that just, it's always there and it takes up the entire back of the wall and I felt that subconsciously people were expecting something

bigger so when i did this face i did this royal festival hall in england and again i walk out organ fucking organ well and at disney music hall with you would have the same thing right so but they said to me they said we can we can put a curtain in front of the organ i'm like would you because i've had experiences with organs this size or i feel like just like go play a couple of notes and just like maybe but i don't even know where the keyboard was all you see those pipes i know it's true where is it like i don't know where the guy sits it's it's it's unbelievably mysterious so when you were in new york did you work with spalding no well you know it's so wild that one of my first experiences that i ever had was with spalding no well you know it's so wild that one of my first experiences that i ever had was with

spalding when he was um with richard schecter and the um the original worcester yeah um but this was like 1977 uh-huh i was in pittsburgh going to carnegieellon University, and the Worcester Group and Spaulding came through town. Oh, really? And they did a workshop with us. Because I was at an acting conservatory. Well, that's one of the big ones. Yeah, so he came, and the Worcester Group did a workshop with us, and he was unforgettable. And then they performed three know uh three plays um over that weekend so we we saw

them perform and then we were but it was unforgettable for me yeah um what left the biggest impression his improvisatory freedom his intuitions i mean think you know things would come to him and it would just be impulse he would have an impulse and then he would act on act on the impulse and that's something that actors you want you know you you court that yeah that thoughtless kind of thing yeah yeah and i thought that he mastered that um as a monologist but i mean i wonder like no but this was kind of as an actor um as an improviser okay yeah right but like it's harder to do that in character, I would think. Well, he really wasn't thinking about character. Right.

He was thinking about, like, circumstances. Right. He would, you know, pose these circumstances to us. Uh-huh. And then, you know. Yeah. And put some conflicts in for us, some obstacles. Uh-huh.

And then we would deal. So, I get it. It wouldn't be like doing a part. Right, right. It would be like just dealing with this conflict. Yeah, the improvisation of the immediate. Right. It's happening now.

I just thought he was kind of, you know, really a profound artist that I was seeing really young in my, you know, very early on in my studies. And did you meet him again later to tell him that he had this amazing impact on you? No. Never? I saw him, you know, several times, but I never went backstage. I was too intimidated.

So Carnegie Mellon, how'd you end up there? So did you do theater in Georgia early on when you were younger? You did. Yeah. I, you know, sometimes I forget. I'm just like nodding my head. And you're like, Molly, you've got to talk. She's nodding her head now. That's a yes. That silence is a yes. A translator. A verbal translator.

She's tired of talking. Are you tired of talking? No, but you know. So do people just play with all these kind of fun things that you have? Certain people do. I mean, this is a hammer. It's a half a hammer. With a split handle. It's very provocative.

It is provocative. I found it. It's like Cropsey. It's like this should be in a horror film. Yeah, it might be. It might be. If you put a little blood. Sure, you're all set.

Yeah, some people play. Sometimes I wonder why they play, but I like. It might be. If you put a little blood. Sure. You're all set. Yeah, some people play. Sometimes I wonder why they play. But I like having things out there. Do you think, wow, they're playing because they're nervous? No, I think it's a comforting thing usually. They wish they had a cigarette or what is it? Something. Are they bored?

I don't mind if people smoke, if they want to smoke. But I don't know if they're bored. I think it's a way of- It's an anxiety. Anxiety and also sort of like it's distracting. Hey, and you know what this looks like? What's it? Mosaic Man.

Yeah, it's a mosaic mushroom. Is this Mosaic Man? No. That was a fan made that. They put the name of the podcast and they put a little cat on top for me. And you know Mosaic Man in the East Village? Oh, yeah. He does them all over the light.

Right, right, right. Oh, that's right. That guy. No, I don't think that's his work, but when I go to New York york i do like it definitely inspired by him so um anyway yeah acting so acting ah yes acting so try to get a little the subject that i warm to but in georgia what were you doing just like high school stuff or just high school stuff but you knew you wanted to do musicals i was you know like high school stuff or? Just high school stuff. But you knew you wanted to do it. Musicals.

I was, you know, in high school musicals. I would love to see you in a high school musical. And then I was a director, saw me in a high school play, and he was the director of the Alliance Theater in Atlanta, which is Atlanta's big theater. And he did repertory theater in upstate New York. Oh, yeah.

Summer Rep. Sure. And so he said, do you want to come to my Summer Rep company and apprentice? This was when journeymen, this was when you apprenticed. Yeah, right. You learned how to clean things and build things and serve food. Yeah, wash people's underwear. Oh, well, that's a... You sure that everyone did that?

I had to. And I helped actors off the stage in the dark and I turned the turntables in between scenes and all that crazy stuff that apprentices do. Did you love it? I loved it. And what were some of the shows? Who were some of the actors you walked off stage? Did you meet people that impressed you? Was it life-changing when you saw the people on the stage? You know, it was the first time that I had encountered a gay community

that I knew was a gay community. And that gay community knew that they were gay. Yeah. So that when I went back to my high school, I went, oh, wow, he's gay. You know, one of my classmates. But did they know? He's gay and he doesn't know it. And he may never know it the way that I know.

Yeah, right. He would never be as comfortable as the people I met up there. That's right. It's almost a sad feeling for that person. It was. But it was an exciting awakening for me because there were all these like incredibly theatrical, at home, fun. Yeah.

You just wanted to take the gay guy you knew in high school and bring him up there. Yeah, I know. Just say, hey, man. Run wild. It's okay. Yeah, right. Right. So, yeah, there were a lot of really fun, impressive people, and I went, oh, I want to do this. This is a world.

You want to become part of the theater. I want to be part of this world. Yeah. Oh, that's great. And you did. You became that. And I became that. What were some of the shows, though, that you were able to see?

Because the summer stock's always a little odd. It is funny. It is funny? Well, I mean, we did Gypsy. We did Anything Goes. We did Cabaret. We did, you know, all these. But you didn't have celebrities coming in to do shows?

It was just a group? It was just a group. Right, right. And some professional actors were coming through. Right. But it wasn't like it didn't have that kind of high profile. Right. But for me, it didn't matter. Right. But it wasn't like, it didn't have that kind of high profile. Right. But for me,

it didn't matter. Right. This was the life. And so after you did that, you were never the same again and you knew you had to leave. Well, you know, I was just like,

can I come back? So they invited me back to the second, you know, summer. To apprentice. When I was 16. Yeah.

So I was 15 and then when I was 16, I went back and then I just said, where should I go? Yeah. So I was 15, and then when I was 16, I went back, and then I just said, where should I go to study to be a professional? Where should I study? Yeah. And they, at that, it was, I don't even know why, but they all said Carnegie Mellon.

Yeah. All those guys said Carnegie is the place to go. So that was the only school that I applied to. I mean, I put everything in that basket. you know you got it well and and yeah so you thank god because maybe i would just be a secretary in atlanta yeah a very very exciting secretary right intense you know dictation. Very dramatic secretary. Why is she all worked up all the time? Yeah, wow. She just seems.

What a pip. She seems really. Very intense. Yeah. She answers the phone very intensely. So unfulfilled. Yeah. So you did undergrad at Carnegie Mellon.

Is that how it works? You're there for four years? Right. And that was, well, that might have been like, I don't know when the other, Yale is Yale, but that's a graduate program. Juilliard, I don't, that's a graduate program. You know, Juilliard's undergrad too. Oh, yeah?

They do the undergrad as well. Probably lucky you didn't go there. I'm really happy, you know, not, I'm just happy that I wasn't, that I didn't go straight from the farm to New York City. It was very nice to have a pit stop in Pittsburgh. Yeah. Pittsburgh's all right. Pittsburgh's all right, and it was a great little way station, you know, because New York would have been too intense for me, and Carnegie feels a little bit more like a little womb.

It's a little safe. You need it. It's a safe place. To learn. And you see Spalding Gray come down and get your mind blown in a safe environment before you go get beat up. Yeah. New York in 1976.

Ugh. Probably, well, you know. Exciting. It was, yeah. I mean, I was ready for it by 1980 but 76 just give me four years is that when you went to when did you get out of carnegie mellon 80 oh okay so i mean i hit new york and new york had like all the edge that we were talking about yeah just you caught the last wind of it well i would say the 80s the 80s had some nice i guess that's true a lot of the, you know, a lot like stuff that, a lot of performance art stuff that was going on was still kind of doing it then.

And Soho was still very much an artist, you know, enclave. They were getting ready to be pushed out, you know. Right. But a lot of those buildings didn't have certificate of occupancies. I mean, all this, you know, all that stuff was still happening. So when you went up there, did you have a sense of how show business was supposed to work? Did you know what you were to do when you left Carnegie, when you moved to New York? Or were you just sort of like, I'm here with my headshot?

I came there with my headshot and a real sense of entitlement. Which is necessary when you start to to be uh in show business you need to be delusional and maintain it for as long as possible well didn't you feel that way of course how why else would anyone fucking do this right you know you need to have a certain amount of fearlessness like hey man i get to be here yeah and also like it's uh it'll come i just got to show up right it's it's a it's a certain kind of, you know, as you get older, it's willful naivete. But at that point, it's just naivete. I don't know how else, what other kind of person really takes the chance.

You know, anybody who's sort of like, I'm going to try it. It's like, no, well, that's not going to work out. You're pretty much not going to go, you know what? I'm going to give stand-up a real whirl at the age of 45. No, believe me, it happens happens i've seen it happen but the bigger problem is is like what if you what if all that self-will and uh delusion that you need to to sort of propel yourself into such a ridiculous profession what if it doesn't work out that's the sad story that's a sad story but then of course you know sadness you know strikes us all sooner or later i mean you're gonna get the ebb you're gonna get the flow yeah and some get it or you know earlier than others there's no happy ending for anyone nobody gets out of here that's right and

so um yeah when you get to new york so what do you do? Like, what's your first move? Who are your pals? What's happening? I didn't really, well, I had a few pals, but I think, you know, I met this casting director, Joy Todd. Yeah. And she just went, she just liked me. Uh-huh. And she started giving me extra work.

Oh, yeah? So I just did a lot of extra work. You did? Instead of having to wait tables, I did extra work. So you could make $100 a day, $200 a day. Right, and also you could be on a set. You could be on a set. I didn't really care so much about that, but the money was nice.

Oh, yeah? Okay. I didn't want to – i wasn't fighting for the front i wasn't fighting for camera time like not at all you weren't walking by several times there's that girl again yeah no i didn't that was not my well what were you thinking you wanted to do theater or were you thinking like what was the plan there i wanted to do theater that was it yeah you weren't even thinking in terms of movies or tv you're like like, this is garbage. Where's the theater? No, I didn't think that it was garbage at all. I just, like, it was the theater.

That was what I wanted to do. But, hey, I didn't have any problems with movies or television. I mean, none. I wanted to be an actress. Right. But I did move to L.A. Right. I did move.

To New York. Right. Yeah. For on purpose. It was a stage thing but i had no you know i wasn't um i i i wasn't snooty yeah about like oh yeah television where'd you live in new york when you first got there uh like where didn't i live oh really i mean but you know those were like like i said you know it was it was Yeah. So you could be an out of work actor and live in Manhattan.

Sure. You could do that. Yeah. I mean, I had five roommates. Oh, yeah. Where was that place? On like 60, between 66th and 67th on Columbus. Oh, up there.

But then, you know, I was on Amsterdam and 73rd, right, you know, across from Needle Park. Uh-huh. Then I was in the Bronx, the North Bronx. Then I was in 9th Street between 2nd and 3rd, which was groovy. That's nice down there. Not far from you. Yeah, yeah, 9th Street, yeah, by Tompkins Square. Then I was, you know, Morton and Hudson.

Oh, yeah, other side. Then 11th Then I was, you know, Morton and Hudson. Oh, yeah, other side. Then 11th and- Wow, you really got around. Chasing University. I mean, yeah, I mean, you move around a lot when you're young and you're living in New York City. Yeah. You're moving.

Yeah, because you just meet people. You're like, no, you got a room? I'm tired of living with these nine people. How many people do you live with? Right, right. Yeah, okay, the North Bronx is dull. Yeah. How many people do you live with? Right. Yeah. Okay. The North Bronx is dull. Let's get off the D train.

Right. So when did you start getting work? Well, I got a horror movie within three weeks. Of being in New York? Yeah. Yeah. I got this horror film. And actually, Harvey Weinstein was his first movie that he ever produced.

Right when he got out of the music business? He was a concert promoter. Yeah. Right. And in fact, we were up in Buffalo in North Tonawanda, New York, and the Commodores came through town. Harvey was, so we went and saw the Commodores. Because Harvey was promoting concerts. Right, right. And was he a monster yet?

You know, I had many, many dealings with Harvey. Harvey obviously was a monster. I didn't see that for a long time. Yeah. And the monstrous part of Harvey that I was privy to was his temper, which he has a mighty one. But how did that come out in your experience? At the Can Foam Festival, which, you know, Harvey was a kind of a permanent fixture. But not directed at you.

No, yeah, directed at me. Sure. But Harvey, you know, he was he could be very sloppy with with with everything. Yeah. With everything. But yeah. So I did the burning. Harvey, you know, he could be very sloppy with all things. Yeah. With everything. Uh-huh. But, yeah.

So, I did the burning. Yeah. And got so much money. I mean, I just had, I was like sleeping in cash. Really? I would just like wake up with bills from my per diem. Wow. I just couldn't believe how much money uh-huh you know i was making on the burning it was 1980 i'd been in new york for three weeks and i it was raining raining give me a number

amount this sounds crazy it was like you know i i made like a thousand dollars you know and it was like incredible yeah yeah like so happy you're working actress and it's raining money a thousand whole dollars right i'm gonna move to a place with only two other people in it and that is what happened and i and i just got a roommate who is that jason alexander you know who seinfeld he's been in here and jason and i got a place on on amsterdam between 73 and 74 really Really? You lived with Jason Alexander? You lived with Jason Alexander? Yeah, me and Jason. And Jason's wife, eventual wife,

moved in with us for a little while. And then they moved out and got married. But, yeah. So it was just me and Jason. Did you guys get along? Did you?

We were pals. Yeah. We were good pals. He's a sweet guy. I've talked to him in here. We did a really great episode about acting. He's were pals. Yeah. We were good pals. He's a sweet guy. I've talked to him in here. We did a really great episode about acting. He's very sweet. Yeah.

Very sweet. And he was doing musical theater. Yeah. He was kind of a musical theater actor. Yeah. Big Mac, the commercial, the McDonald's commercial he did. I pulled that up and we talked about it. I'm not surprised.

It's him dancing. Jason would be a total natural. Yeah, he's just a dancer. So, okay. So then what happens after the burning? Then I went into a period of not working. After the raining money? $1,000?

Right. Then I had to hit the deck with waitressing. You did? Yeah. Which place? Chip's Pub. And then after I got fired from Chip's Pub, then I started temping.

Yeah, sure. And I did secretarial stuff at HBO. Oh, yeah? I was a temp secretary. On Bryant Park? Was that where it was? No. Well, actually, yeah, not far, on 6th Ave. Yeah. And then I got a temp. On Brian Park? Was that what it was? Well, actually, yeah, not far, on 6th Ave.

Yeah. And then I got a play. And once I got the play, then I just started doing plays. Was it a big play? What'd you do? It was an off-Broadway play. Uh-huh. But it was a really cool play.

You could work. Yeah, it was a really fun play. And then I started just doing plays. Oh, just almost all theater, huh? Yeah, I just went from one play to another and did that for a couple of years and got a Broadway play. Which one?

Crimes of the Heart. Oh, that's big. And then Joel and Ethan Coen saw Crimes of the Heart and that's big and then joel and ethan cohen saw crimes of the heart and then you know i got to know those guys they were doing um uh blood simple uh-huh was it was the the cohen married to um to francis yet no um fran and i were rooming fran and i were roommates you were yeah that must have been an intense household. We were up in the North Bronx. I just can't imagine the two of you just running around

the apartment. It was just like an effortless friendship. I'm sure. And so Fran and I were up in the North Bronx and I, you know, I met Joel and Ethan and then they met Fran and then they did Blood Simple and then we all did Raising Arizona.

Were you in Blood Simple? You had a little... So did you facilitate the meeting of Fran? I said, you should meet my roommate. And that's how it started? She's married to Joel, right? Yeah. And wasn't she involved with the Worcester group at the time?

No, no. But Fran is deeply involved in the Worcester Group at the time? No. No. But Fran is deeply involved in the Worcester Group presently. Now. Right. She's done stuff with them through the course of these last, you know. Yeah. But not when you were roommates.

No. No. You were just work trying to get jobs. No. Fran's involvement with the Worcester Group was later. Okay. Yeah. So that's exciting.

So you meet these Coen brothers right before they even started. You're around with their first movie. That's right. Yeah. And then they give you the lead in their second movie. Right. That's right. And Fran is in the second movie, too.

Oh, yes. I remember. And I'm in the answering machine in Blood Simple. There's an answering machine that comes up and my voice is on the answering machine. Right.

I love Raising Arizona. Yeah, me too. Yeah. I mean, it was so funny and so wild. Now, you've worked with them then and later. So how did they work at the time they did Blood Simple? Because I've talked to, I just talked to Josh Brolin about working with them then and later. So how did they work at the time they did Blood Simple?

Because I've talked to, I just talked to Josh Brolin about working with them. And I'm just curious about how that process is. I mean, was it different working with them on Raising Arizona and then, you know, Oh Brother? Where, I mean, you know, what's the, can you see the evolution in their process? You know, oddly, not not really uh-huh um joel and ethan are highly original yeah and i think you know an exception yeah to any rule really yeah it's the way they feel slightly impervious to stress. I mean, things might annoy them. Right.

But they have a real, it's a feeling of, they've got a safety. Maybe it's because they have each other. Right. But they feel, like I said, it's a certain kind of, it's impenetrable in terms of the stress of the norm the the normal stress levels that people experience in making a movie yeah i just think that that you know they there's a confidence there um yeah right they're in total control totally exhibited in i'm sure they exhibited in blood simple they certainly it was there in in raising arizona and. And I felt like almost identical in A Brother. And I was cut out of Miller's Crossing.

But like Raising Arizona, I know it's a long time ago, but everybody was so hilarious. And kind of like Nicolas Cage at that point was so young and beautiful. I know. And so fucking funny. John Goodman. I know.

I mean, it must be wild to look back at that and just be like, oh my God. Yeah, it's fucking funny john goodman i know i mean it's like it must be wild to look back at that and just be like oh my god it's just a really funny movie it really is just really funny and i'd read somewhere that they based nicholas cage's character on wiley coyote well no that was nicholas oh he did nick did that that was the the the cage influence he brought that in he did they, couldn't deny it. Oh, right. I mean, Nick is very committed, and he lived that.

Uh-huh. He did. He walked the walk, and Joel and Ethan were like, yes. Uh-huh. Wow. So did you love working with him?

Nick? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm in awe of Nick. Yeah. I. Yeah. I don't know. I'm in awe of Nick. Yeah. I think he's like a, there's nobody like that guy.

I know. I mean, what Nick keeps showing up with over the decades is incredible. Yeah. The chances that Nick can take, the, I don't know, the ability that Nick has is kind of, I feel like it's without limit yeah i mean like what what can the guy not do i guess that's true huh i do i feel that way about him i mean david gordon green did this movie called joe yeah i heard about this and i thought that nick was you know so beautiful in it i was just talking to lynn shelton about that the other night i've

not seen that movie yeah it's a it's a real it he really does, it's a very difficult thing because David Gordon Green likes to work with a bunch of non-actors. Yeah. And that's a hard intersection to like make, to be cool with. Yeah. If you're working with non-actors in a way to be as good as them can be hard. Right, because they're just doing the one thing they do. Because, yeah, they're just being. Right. Because they're just doing the one thing they do. Because, yeah, they're just being. Yeah.

And sometimes that's all you want to, that's all you're aspiring to do. Yeah. And so I thought Nick just did that so gracefully. Wow. Do you talk to him? I haven't seen or talked to Nick in years, but whenever we run into each other,

there's, I think, great affection. Like we went to high school together kind of thing? Well, I mean, I think that, you know, because the success of Raising Arizona, it had a strange kind of shape because initially it was not a successful movie. It became beloved over the decades. Oh, I guess that's true, huh? Yeah.

Yeah. And it was at the's true, huh? Yeah. Yeah. And it was at the beginning of both of our careers. At a very vital time for each other, you were there. Right. And then, like, you took off, and then, like, broadcast. It seems to me like I feel like I grew up with you because I see you in movies so much. But broadcast news and other, like, because you take a lot of chances, too. I mean, when you say that about Nicolas Cage, I mean, when I was looking at the films you've done, I mean, you don't shy away from going out there.

Thank you. I mean, like, you know, like Crash. I mean, that's heavy. That was fun. That's heavy shit, you know. And even The Firm, which I love that movie. I love The Firm. And I thought you were great in that.

Thanks. And I don't think these are safe things. Well, obviously, the piano. But there's nothing safe about how you approach acting it's very exciting and like when i think of like the like you and francis together i'm like oh my god how can one room contain that you know what i mean but let's let's let's like move through a couple things like when you do something like the firm who i'd working with all these different directors like someone like like Sidney Pollack, who, you know, was kind of amazing. How do you judge directors in terms of like the work?

I mean, do most of them just hire you and expect you to just do what you do? Or are there ones that really kind of work with you through things? I mean, I think that, you know, a great director, a really great director casts magnificently and then steps out of the way so that, you know, and really, I think what most actors want is the director to provide an environment, you know, an atmosphere that feels right for that story. Yeah. That's supportive of the story. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Of the story.

Yeah. Yeah. Sure. And that feels. For me. I love it. If I feel. Just in general.

If I feel loved by a director. Yeah. You know. If I feel that the director really admires these actors. Yeah. And. I mean. I've worked with some directors who were a fabulous audience. Like my dream audience.

Yeah. And that can kind of inspire a better performance yeah i bet i don't want it to be a negative atmosphere right like if somebody's a screamer yeah that's hard and that happens i yeah i i don't like i won't deal with that yeah that's that's not conducive it's abusive right so that's got to stop right um i just don't i don't i don't truck have you walked off sets before because of someone's insanity no i just take them quietly aside i just take them to somewhere and say listen man you got to go back and apologize to everybody i mean yeah now you got to say you're sorry because we can't. Yeah, you're going to ruin everything. Yeah, now you've got to go do that.

Yeah. And you probably don't want to, but that's the only way that everybody's going to be able to stay on board with you. And you need us. You know, you need us to stay on board with you to do this movie. You know, I mean, it's like, you know, I don't want to be, I don't want to fight fire with fire in those situations. I want to fight fire with a certain amount of love and say, like, you lost your shit. Yeah. And everybody has.

And now, you know, you can make it right. I feel like just you just saying that right now, I feel like I should try to make something right. Can you? I just want to apologize for everything I've ever done. That's so great. We can go on. But anyway, I mean, yeah, sometimes I would never want to direct. It looks like a nightmare.

It looks like a nightmare, a mountain of stress. The piano obviously was a wild movie movie and that's a long time ago but like yeah i mean you won the big thing that was was that great yeah no listen that was great yeah and i love jane yeah i love campion yeah i love harvey yeah harvey yeah have you worked with him again no like he's like a a trip, man. I love Harvey. Yeah. I mean, what an odd part for him, too. I mean, you know, I see Harvey, we start crying. You do?

Yeah. I mean, we fall into each other's arms. I mean, I love him. Yeah? Yeah. And was that the first time you met him was on the set of that thing? Yeah. Oh, man.

It was. That's the first time I ever met him. But I do. I hold Harvey close. He's another first time I ever met him. But I do. I hold Harvey close. He's another one that takes real chances. Like for just a kid from New York, I mean, he really does a thing. I know, man. It's crazy.

I mean, I'm looking forward to seeing this movie that he did with Scorsese and De Niro. Oh, the Italian movie? Yeah. Yeah. Is it done? I don't know. But whenever it is, I'm going to go see it. And what about the movie 13, which I thought, I love that movie too.

Oh, me too. It's kind of a harsh movie, but really great. Really beautiful. I mean, Catherine Hardwicke. Wow. She did such an incredible thing. Yeah. She's out.

She really took risks. She had this thing, you know. It was like when I met her i went okay yeah this is the girl to direct this movie yeah i don't know what this movie is yeah but i want to be part of it yeah and you know because she i just felt like i was going to be on her ride yeah it's yeah it's it was raw man right it was raw yeah and very articulate i thought so like it made an impact on me so like outside of the uh do you still do you like doing any more theater do you still do theater i did a play um that the great david rabe um right um he did he was dreamers was

streamers and um hurley burley oh hurley burley and he also direct he wrote a play called sticks and bones um that i did um about three years ago um at the new group which is an off broadway yeah and i just recently saw his latest play good for auto with amy madigan and ed harris mark lynn baker it was great oh Oh my God. So what, now you've got kids now, right? Yeah, but we don't talk about them. We leave them out of it. But you're having a good time. Yeah. Oh good.

And you're happy in your life and everything's cool. Everything's really good. Well, I appreciate you talking to me for a while. Yeah, that was really really a blast. That was intense and exciting. It was great to meet her. She's an awesome kind of personality, full on Holly Hunter, exactly as you imagine Holly Hunter to be. I am on the road. I am tired. I don't know if you can hear that in my voice, but no guitar today. No guitar today. Boomer lives. We'll be right back. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

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