WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 929 - Paul Rudd

Episode Date: July 1, 2018

One constant for Paul Rudd as he spent a large portion of his childhood moving around the country, chasing an identity, is that he loved watching adults be silly. Even when he was in acting school and performing Shakespeare on stage, he took a lot of cues from influences like Letterman, Carlin and Kaufman. Paul talks with Marc about those early days and the big days that were to come after Wet Hot American Summer, the Judd Apatow movies, and now Marvel's Ant Man and the Wasp. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated

category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton.

The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fuckadelics? Paul Rudd.

Paul Rudd is on the show today. This was a long time coming. We've been trying to do it. I think there was a couple times where it just didn't work out for some reason, but Paul Rudd will be here. He's got that Marvel movie, that Ant-Man movie, Ant-Man and the Wasp, opens this Friday, July 6th. We talk about that a little bit.

We talk about the broader Paul situation more so, but that's happening shortly. Let's hang out. Hang out here. All right? So I'm on a Netflix show called Glow, the Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling, and that show premiered. Well, they dropped it, as Netflix does.

It's not a premiere per se, but all episodes of the new season, all 10, are available as of last friday today's monday i do a show on thursday did i mention the uh that that glow would be dropping the day after the last show that i was on here in my garage my own show did i talk about the show that i am a featured performer on premiering the next day dropping the next day 10 episodes no i did not did i did was the oversight on purpose it was not what could did i know was coming out that day yes so why why would i not promote it why do i and i've done that before here you know where i forget to promote my gigs it's a strange

phenomenon i don't know i don't think it's fear i don't think it's insecurity i think that i come out here i'm so intent on figuring out what i'm going to say right now that i if it's not written down i don't you know i don't you know i don't i forget it because i'm caught up in sitting here playing my guitar meditating on what the fuck i'm going to say to you people. And I mean you people in a nice way. And I just forget to promote the wonderful things that are happening in my life. Okay, see, that might be it.

That might be it. The wonderful things happening in my life I forget to talk about. I forget to engage in. I forget to be grateful for. I forget to be humbled by the journey I've been on and have some satisfaction in what I've accomplished. I forget all those things. I forget what I mean to some of you folks,

what the show means to you. I forget all this good stuff that I've worked for in my entire life and just fester on the shit. But nonetheless, Glow season two is up. It is out. It is on Netflix. It did come out tremendously well. Everybody did a great job. I mean mean literally everybody on that show did a great job uh all the uh actors i think they we did a wonderful job they uh the directing the writing did everybody every the wrestling i mean it just it's been a thrill to be part of it and it's exciting you know after you know you shoot these things last year october

november whenever we did it in the fall and then they put it together for months and then they put it on hold until they drop it and then they drop it and you're like oh that's what i did that's what we all did look what we all did i guess what i'm trying to point out is i'm proud of the show i'm proud of the work that we all did and i'm excited for you all to see it so if you didn't already know glow season two is now on netflix it's probably something i should have said last week did not say it i got i got an odd email because like i often wonder where people are at and you know sort of it's not even it's not even a substantial email but like i don't i'm always amazed it's like in the,

in the, in the movie, Michael Clayton, which if you haven't seen it, you should watch it. It's, it's one of the great movies, Michael Clayton,

Sidney Pollack says, uh, people are just, you know, fucking incomprehensible. People are incomprehensible. Can that be true? It is true,

isn't it? I don't think it's not so much because we can't make assumptions about, about human beings, but human beings in different situations will do things that you'll, you, true isn't it i don't think it's not so much because we can't make assumptions about about human beings but human beings in different situations will do things that you could never know you can never know what the fuck's going they're incomprehensible it's true whatever you think you have a handle on when it comes to other people don't be so sure this is a big this is a big ramp up for a cute email but but I just said, sometimes the oddest things make me laugh.

Mark, I was listening to the Eleanor Kerrigan episode today, and for some reason, the moment where you dropped your pen made me laugh harder than anything has for days. I can't explain it. Thanks as always for your show. You are a voice of empathy and reason and humor, and I appreciate the laughs, even when they come from unplanned and utterly mundane events. I don't know what's up with that guy. I don't know how it hit him, but those are the laughs that I love the most. The one guy laughing at the thing that nobody else laughed at. I don't even remember dropping my pen, but it happens on stage sometimes.

There are certain things where I think they're funny and I know that they're funny, but they may be awfully subtle. They may come after a barrage of other things. But sometimes I'll have a line where one person will laugh and it's the type of laugh that should be crying. It goes deep. It is unavoidable. It registered without fully even knowing what hit him or her. Love that laugh.

And you're welcome, Darren welcome Darren you're welcome all right so Paul Rudd finally is here it was I was excited to talk to him he's a sweet guy no one's gonna say Paul's a shitty guy I don't think maybe there's somebody but not to my knowledge uh the new movie is the Ant-Man movie Ant-Man and the Wasp it opens this Friday July 6th but uh you know Paul's been around a long time. He's one of those guys that many of us feel like we kind of grew up with. And it was a pleasure to talk to him. This is me and Paul.

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Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence.

Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly.

This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Bread. I think a better call to get the house. Yeah. And that's like in the country. Yeah, yeah. And you spend a lot of time up there? As much as we can. Yeah. I guess. How many kids? I got two kids.

So, yeah, I mean, what is it, half and half? No. Mostly city? It's mostly city. And weekends, hopefully upstate or part of the summer. Oh, that's how it goes, huh? Yeah. So you're really a city guy pretty much i mean my my kids are now actual kids yeah so we can't you know 13 and 8 so there was a while there we were going to maybe make the move yeah but my son who now is

like you know he's locked in he's locked in he's. He's like, there's no way. There's no way we can do that. Yeah. And. Not disruptive. It just felt cruel. Because he's got friends. He's got, he's probably in business of some kind. Yeah, probably. Well, that's.

At 13. And the thing is, is that he says like, you know, we go out there, there's, he really made me laugh. He said, dad, I was born in this city. And you know, they say uh he wasn't even trying to make me laugh right he said you know they say new york uh is the city that never sleeps upstate is the city that only sleeps there's nothing to do and and he's right there's really yeah that's what i love about he's out at studio 54 you know he's got things all night long he's either if he's not

at studio 54 he's hanging at those kind of Upper East Side Dick Cavett socials. Sure, man. So he is full-fledged New York City. Yeah, he probably told you that when you had slept and he hadn't slept all night and he was sitting at the counter in the kitchen still in his suit. Mm-hmm, yeah. That's it. A little tired from the night. Oh, 13.

Going on and on about Michael Musto.o oh of course you know that guy yeah nan golden nan golden taking pictures yeah that's a rough party your kids at yeah he's gone he's exploring every facet of new york city in the 1970s you've seen that movie kids yeah that's that's what that's what he's up to that's what he's living oh man god i hope not that would be my nightmare yeah i don't know. Does that exist anymore, I think? I'm sure it's morphed into something else. But, you know, kids in New York City is a very real thing.

And I'm raising kids in New York City, which is kind of a bizarre thing to do. It seems like the romanticization of that lifestyle, that was still around. I don't know, how old are you? I'm 49. So I'm 53. So like, you know, no one's romanticizing drugs really anymore in a cultural way.

Like when we were kids, we were like, yeah, man, let's get high. I don't feel that those role models are as much around as they used to be. Well, I hope not. That's all I'm saying. I'm saying your kid's probably okay. I'm sure you got him at a good school.

He's not in too much trouble. You know, he's a good kid. Both my kids are great. And at a certain point, you could just try and teach them as best you can and then let them go be kids. Right. You got to separate, huh? You got to let them be their own people.

And you have the other one's a girl? Younger. Eight. Eight. Oh, man. So this is good times. This is a good times for the kids. Yeah.

They kind of like you. They need advice, but you don't have to worry about them constantly. Right. Well, I worry about them constantly. I definitely do. I did that. I've always worried about them constantly. That's why I don't have any.

The idea of having them causes me extreme panic. I get it. And I think that makes sense. Yeah. But you did it. I did it. You had two. Yeah.

I had two of them. You seem like a genuinely more stable person than I am, I believe. makes sense. Yeah. But you did it. I did it. You had two. Yeah. I had two of them. You seem like a genuinely more stable person than I am, I believe. I don't know. I'm not so sure about that. But I do know this. I was really nervous about having the first kid for a myriad of reasons, several of which I think are probably ones you think about. But you have to make sure they're breathing all the time.

But they're supposed to just do that, you know, and then they're- They do kind of do that. Yeah. They do that on their own. They're just laying there in the other room. Right. Is it okay? Yeah.

I don't know. It's weird. It's weird when you leave the hospital with a kid because you feel like you're doing something that's just not supposed to happen. As soon as they're born, they're there for a couple of days and people who know what they're doing are monitoring the situation. But then they're like, okay, sign this, and then off you go. And you're like, what?

Is there a book? Wait a minute. When are you coming with me? But when we had one, then I thought, well, you know, I'll have six. Yeah. Once we had one, but then we stopped at two. Yeah, no, you don't need six. Well, I just, my immediate thought was,

I want them to have somebody to kind of defray medical costs with down the road when both my wife or I are in the home. Oh, so you're looking ahead. I'm looking ahead. So you just wanted at least two. Yeah, I want at least two so that- One of them at least will have the bread to put you up somewhere. So one, so that one's like, oh, I can't just foot this whole bill.

And two, that they'll have at least somebody that they can kind of commiserate with. Sure. But you never know how things are going to turn. I mean, you hope them both will stay on board. One might be like, oh, fuck them. Yeah yeah yeah oh yeah it's like that's it i'm out of here and i'm never talking to any of you again yeah that's why i think if you have many your odds are better that's just you're gonna have the one bad egg yeah yeah yeah and i think we're look i mean even even the greatest sports teams had one guy on the that was on the bench the whole time yeah you know

it's all right to yeah yeah, one that maybe goes and finds their own. Yeah. So you're here, you're doing the promotion for the Ant movie? Yeah. Ant-Man.

Yeah, yeah. But you know, you guys with the superheroes, you like that look? That's sort of like, yeah, that's one of them. Yeah, I mean, I gotta do that.

Well, no, it's not that. I think there's something, there's just something so artificial and weird. Like, I'm excited to sit here and talk to you, but then it seems like, oh, this is why I'm in town. No, no, I know, but I'm not saying we have to talk about that. But, I mean, I do think it's interesting because I've had, I had Brolin in here a couple weeks ago.

And, you know, his sort of, like, you guys are aware of the movie you're doing. Right. go and you know his sort of like you guys are aware of the movie you're doing right and and there is like i imagine in some way you have to bend it into like uh you know not you know uh something fun and exciting and and uh something you can get behind even though there's part of you that's sort of like there's a superhero movie you know yeah well i feel that with all things yeah really i mean it's part you know there are some things that I get more excited about than others. Yeah.

But it is, it's, you know, you go around, you have to talk about it. And essentially. The selling part. The selling part, which I've never really been very, very good at. It's easier when it's also something that I believe in. But yeah. But you're not, you know, Brolin's like, you know, he's all distorted and weird looking. Like you can't, you know, he's like half a monster.

You're like the guy. Yeah, but I'm also sitting on an ant. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Okay. So that's your price to pay. That's your cross to bear.

I do love it. It's been a really great experience. It's been super fun. It has. Yeah, and completely different, obviously, than anything else in my life. I mean, I just can't imagine what the arc of it, though, when you're doing Shakespeare in the park in the 90s. I mean, whoever thought that you'd be wearing these kind of tights?

It's true. But I don't know. I guess you just look at it as an acting job. I mean, obviously, it's a great opportunity. It's financially lucrative, and kids love it. There's not too many people that are going to be standing on the sidelines going yeah they fucking sold out that guy you know well I mean that's you know that's always was my greatest fear I would hate to be one of those people that would be considered

someone who sold out what does that mean anymore yeah I don't is it how does one do that I just think I think it's it's basically going against your own sense of what you find worthwhile and worth doing. But it is silly, but every job, acting is silly. The whole thing is. The whole thing is just kind of weird.

Yeah, I mean, I've been doing more of it lately, and I start to realize that there is an element of getting away with something to acting yeah you know what I mean oh yeah yeah once you figure it out or if you're lucky enough to have the knack for it like you want if you're lucky enough to work there are definitely days where you're on set going like this is fucking ridiculous for sure especially you walk outside and you see what other people are doing for real work yeah

yeah and you just think i i mean i really yeah you scored yeah and you can only justify it up to a certain point like it is real work i have to sit there and do that scene nine ten twenty times you have to do that it's hard you know being an actor is really hard hard sell huh it's a hard sell but like uh you know you have a fairly um oddly thorough wikipedia page that um like see because i sometimes look at these things and like in the early life segment i i i almost thought maybe i should make sure maybe you should check this to make sure it's not someone being funny it seems very very convoluted there's Ireland involved there's England involved there's Russia Belarus Poland Jews British a lot going on in the first paragraph of your Wikipedia page uh I don't know what it says I haven't

checked it out but uh all of a lot of those European countries yeah they go back from before I was born no I know that I know but I know that there's I didn't spell any time I spent any time it out but uh all of a lot of those european countries yeah they go back from before i was born no i know that yeah i know but i know that there's i didn't spell any time i spent any time in belarus my family's from there too i found out really yeah but i didn't even know you were jew yeah yeah yeah uh you know you you passed man was that the plan i have have no plan. No plan, but where'd you grow up? I mean, I grew up, I was born in New Jersey. Yeah, me too. Like what part of Jersey?

Palisades Park I lived in. I was born in Passaic, but I lived in Palisades Park, which is basically you cross the George Washington Bridge. Fort Lee. Yeah. It's right by Fort Lee. That's right. My aunt lived there.

I remember the Palisades Amusement Park before it got taken away. Yeah, I kept hearing about that. I think it was taken down, I think, right before I was born. Or maybe right around the time. Right around the time, I bet, you were born. Yeah, I remember going there once. It seemed, in my recollection, it was literally in the cliff.

Yeah. Like it was right there at the edge of it. That's right. Yeah. So that's where you grew up, Palisades Park? Well, I lived there until I was about five, five and a half or so. Any recollections of looking at the bridge? It must have been like-

Yeah, I remember always going into the city because it was 10 minutes away. Right there. And we'd always cross the George Washington Bridge. And that we would, both my sister and I would always say, we're going across the George Washington Bridge. And it wasn't until I was an adult that I realized that was what it was actually called. I thought that was just something we made up. Yeah. It took a made up. Yeah. It took a while then.

Yeah. Wow. But it's good that you didn't think they took it from you and renamed the bridge. That's right. Yeah. Who coined it first? Yeah. So I remember certainly going into the city and I remember life in New Jersey and had

family in New Jersey. Humid. It's humid. Yeah. And then moved to Kansas for about a year. That's wild. A couple years, a year and a half or so. Why is that?

Do you remember in your childhood, just curiosity, I don't know why, do you remember in childhood, New Jersey, Jewish, do you remember melon and tomatoes and sodas and stuff and fruit involved, summers, New Jersey? I remember certain... I don't know why I'm asking you this. Yeah, I remember certain things with the corn being very good. Yeah, right. And some of the summer...

Right, right. Some of the summer... I never liked the tomatoes, so I never ate them. Right, but you remember them, right? But I remember the food being a certain kind of way. People talking about it. Yeah, and then moving around as a kid, I discovered foods in other parts of the country.

Did you ever go down the shore and get like steamers or anything? Clams? No, no, I don't. No, never that. I never did any of that. I never was kind of old enough. And then also because both my parents are from London.

Yeah, oh. I don't think that they ever even- British Jews. Knew some of that stuff was going on. think that they ever even British Jews knew some of that stuff was going on they were British Jews British Jews interesting yeah I've only met a couple oh yeah I know they exist and they've been around a long time yeah but they're baffling to me there's um I have friends that are British Jews and uh they have said it's uh it was tough in a way to be Jewish and British that it was a there was a high anti-Semitism kind of-

Within you. Within themselves. Yeah, yeah. No, I bet you that's true. Like Bob Hoskins, it was one of the first guys I realized was a British Jew. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. british jew oh i didn't know that yeah but like what did they bring with them because jersey jews like east coast jews american jews very specific kind of uh thing give or take a few things what

did the british jew was like what's a british jewish thing that you grew up with i mean i don't know i didn't grow yeah i'm we didn't grow up i didn't grow up religious i didn't go who does but you're jewish i'm jewish but i mean i yeah we celebrated christmas so you know that's really pushing it that's that's really pushing it. That's a little, we did that a couple years ago. Did you? Yeah,

sure. My mom liked it. She likes the lights. Yeah, I would always say, we're not supposed to do this, right? Yeah.

And they would say, we celebrate for the Santa side of things. Exactly. Yeah. So, there was probably always that assimilation. It was also a British thing. I think that,

that maybe my mom celebrated it growing up as a kid right um but i don't know yeah we you know it it was uh it certainly was a part of our lives and it's and if you are you are right i was bar mitzvahed i still yeah you know you do you do a thing you light the the candles? I mean, I did. My mom would do it. My mom was into it. There was a time, I think early on when I was a kid, where, you know, we didn't really go to synagogue all that much.

Sure. All that much, like barely at all. But you had to learn to sing the songs, the bar mitzvah. Yeah, well, that was, and I went to Sunday school a couple of times. Yeah. But there was, I think at this time my mom was saying,

what do you think, Mike? That was my dad. Yeah. Are we going to send this, our kids to Sunday school? Yeah. And his response was, ah, kid's got a good sense of himself.

He doesn't need that shit. And so, I never was raised very religious. Yeah. No, but it's usually a cultural thing, which that's the interesting thing to me yeah is that because they were british and you didn't grow up with that kind of like first or second generation jewish experience east coast thing yeah that the actual cultural experience was not the same well the thing is the the cultural experience regardless of where you are uh-huh and i've

described it this way before which is it's kind of in the marrow of your bones right and while we were not religious i think that we all identified as jews yeah and my dad uh who didn't really believe in any organized religion didn't really i think believe in a god or anything like that so it was never that was not a part of my life growing up right uh at the same time was fascinated with judaism couldn't there was always a hitler documentary on in the house yeah and uh and he was very pro-israel yeah and uh and uh proud to be jewish sure right yeah well that's the thing you know it's not you know if thing. Look, if no one teaches you how to use God, you're not going to use it. But you are taught that you're a Jew.

Yeah. Yeah. You're a Jew. But I don't know. I mean, if no one teaches you how to use God, I think some people probably find it as a kid in their own way. Yeah, maybe you can find it. But, I mean, I think it's got to be i don't know you know like later in life you know the wheels have really

got to come off to really embrace it yeah i think so well that's that's that's does seem to be the time when people find them but uh but uh have you found him no i know i um but what are you doing with your kids uh kind of the same thing they got pretty good sense of themselves yeah kind of yeah yeah um it's it's a tough thing to kind of uh you know navigate navigate and like my son was just bar mitzvahed you did it i we did it yeah and um it was really so you're done you did it we did it it was really mellow yeah it was just like a kind of a small group and he said that uh look i'll do it you know all his friends are doing it yeah sure and uh and i think that there's something to be said about participating in something that is thousands of years old

that gives you a sense of sanity and something continual. Tradition. Yeah, there's something to it. There's something to it. There is something at least comforting to that. When my grandfather died, I remember it was a year later, it was the unveiling of his uh tombstone yeah and i was there uh and everyone started putting a rock on it and i didn't i didn't realize that was a thing

you did right but my mom did it and then i did it and and um you gotta go take a rock off another tombstone yeah that's just it this we were in a rockless cemetery. And I remember that small gesture thinking, wow, this is pretty crazy. People have done this for a very long time. Yeah. And there's something good about that. Sure. Yeah, because it's a sense of history. That's right.

Yeah, which is what we're being chipped away at. And that makes us feel sane And probably puts Our own importance In line of where It actually is Which is minimal Right I think that's good I think that's good

So maybe that's the lesson You pass on Well he said You know he said Look I'll do it And I said Here's the reason Why you should do it

Is because Later on You know You might find something From this down the road It will affect you In ways possibly That you might not predict. And two, there's something nice about being around other Jewish people.

Maybe later on when they're talking about their bar mitzvahs, you won't feel self-conscious and say like, oh yeah, I didn't have that. Yeah. But he said, look, I don't believe in certain aspects of this. And as far as a God and all this, and he's 13, and I couldn't really debate him on a lot of it. I'm like, well, I get that. Right, right. He said to you, like, I was hanging out with Lou Reed the other night,

and we were having a discussion. Yeah, no, we were, I was up with David Byrne, Lou Reed, Debbie Harry, and Tom Verlaine. And the God thing came up. And we were just like, you know what? Let's just check out the Ramones and go all night. And this is just not something I'm ready to deal with. I'll meet you at the factory. Well, that's good. I mean, those are interesting conversations.

It must be interesting. Because I don't know how attentive my parents were in doing those conversations conversations well i mean i don't think that these are conversations that i instigate no i don't think that they happen actually with too much frequency either right no no it's one or two you're just like you remembered you know what your dad said and then well i mean this is it i never uh there was a time i think in my early 20s when I was really having this kind of spiritual and existential

debate and reading is reading books and oh yeah with yourself yeah and I had

you know I had a buddy of mine I think post college a friend of mine who had died and I was dating a girl

who was really into kind of new age past life I was at a girl who was really into kind of new age past lives. I was at all kinds of stuff. Rocks and smells. Eagle feathers and crystals. But anyway, I remember having a conversation with my dad once.

We had gone through a particularly rough period when it came to finances and everything. And my dad was feeling pretty, I think in life i mean as a family as a family uh you know pretty cynical and um beat up and but i i said you know dad you know we we never grew up with any of this stuff yeah you know you talk about being jewish but like do you believe in a in god you believe in anything and and this is what he did tell me i don't really believe in a in god do you believe in anything and and this is when he did tell me i don't really believe in any organized religion right i'm interested in judaism from the historical perspective and that it's a series of it's with the laws of the land right aspects to it that i think makes sense which is enjoy your life uh try and acquire knowledge and uh because but really

all i worry about is if treat people the way I will want to be treated and the rest will take care of itself if there is anything else and I'm he goes that's that's all I think about that's all like and and that's the way I think I feel too but was at the beginning of your existential crisis that's what kicked it off thanks dad now what do i do uh well that's like well well that's sort of interesting so you like well let's go back when you grew up where'd you do most of the growing up most of the growing up i feel like the uh really the kind of the crucial years for me were in kansas city because i went from new jersey to kansas to cal to California for about three and a half years, and then back to Kansas City.

My dad used to work for TWA Airlines, and TWA's hub was in Kansas City. Wow. I remember TWA. Yeah. And that's why we moved. Yeah. So I would say from the age of 10 to 20, I was in Kansas City. Kansas City, Missouri?

Kansas City, Kansas. Kansas. But about 10 minutes from the state line. Aren't there two Kansas Cities? People always think that, but there's really one Kansas City, but it just happens to sprawl over into both sides. There's a street called State Line Road, and that's the border of the two states. And so on the left side, you're in Kansas, on the right side, you're in Missouri. Kansas the right side kansas city kansas right yeah that's a mid that is the definition of the midwest yeah right and your british jewish family in kansas city right are you uh like what is growing up there like what is inspiring about

it because like now i don't you know i was it ever in any way progressive or interesting? Yeah, I think that it was. It was a nice place to grow up and I liked it, okay? Yeah. I think we all have these general ideas of what places are like. Sure. And certainly people have an idea of what Kansas is like. And yet in Kansas City, there are many aspects to living there and people that you meet

and the kind of progressive thought that are in contrast with what people's general opinions of that state might be. So I found some pretty good friends. There were actually other Jews. None of them went to my school, but I heard about them.

I heard that they were in town. The mythical Jews. But honestly, jews none of them went to my school yeah but i heard about them yeah i heard that they were in town the mythical jews but um honestly what i remember kind of when i first got there yeah was the things that a kid would notice which is they they talk differently like in new jersey i remember uh everybody says orange uh-huh and then when I got to Kansas City, everyone said orange. Yeah. And then when I got to California, everyone said, oh, it's hot, you know, or it's rad. And then in Kansas City, everyone said, that's excellent. Yeah. And so these were kind of the big differences that I really noticed between states and that you couldn't get OP shorts or vans in Kansas. Well, that's the big one.

Yeah. By the way, that was the biggest one yeah that was by the way that was the biggest one when i was 11 years old uh and so um those op corduroy shorts so badly i had a bunch but you just you know i was so i would get so excited if in kansas i saw somebody wearing vans or ops yeah i'd go to like are you from California? Like strangers. And, and, you know,

this was pre Zappos. Yeah, sure, man. Um, and I, uh, yeah,

I had like an, uh, a weird kind of unabashed enthusiasm, uh, with like anybody that was, had anything like kind of from California, which I had just come from the same thing, if anybody ever had some kind of snack that you could only get in London,

you know, like round tree fruit gums or something, I would freak out. And I think that it was kind of some sort of deep-seated longing to be where I had just come from because I did feel a little bit like uh an island you know stranded a little bit yeah oh yeah but you go right because in your memory you've knew you'd been in big places before yeah and now it's sort of like are we cut off well i didn't even have really kind of a grasp of it as a little kid yeah you know we traveled a lot because my dad

worked for an airline right my parents were both born in London. Yeah. I'd already lived in three states before the time I was in. And you were going back to London occasionally? All the time. And traveling with, you know, my dad would have some kind of job thing. And so we'd travel with him. And then, so I, you know, my worldview was pretty big as a kid, but I didn't realize

that that wasn't the norm. Right. And so when I would meet other kids and I would say, you know, where are you from? And they'd say, I'm from Kansas. And by the way, they'd be nine years old. Right. Because I'm from here. I'd say, wait a minute, you're from here?

You were born here? Well, what about your mom and dad? It's like, oh yeah, they were born here too. And that was like, you're a Martian. Wait a minute. That's not even possible. You gotta get out, but it wasn't even you got to get out I was even it was more of just a such an and a Bizarre idea yeah that somebody could actually Live in the place that they were born. I didn't think that that was nor I didn't understand. That's what most people did Yeah

I think that I I relate to that because I like's what most people did yeah i i think that i i relate to that because i like if i think about it i was so dug in family wise in new jersey because my both my parents were from there and i'd go back all the time and i lived there when i was a little kid but when i when i was in new mexico the idea that people had lived there felt you know like uh for generations it was sort of weird and backward and seemingly kind of limited. Yeah. But, you know, they don't think that. You know, your reality is your reality.

Yeah. Yeah, and you had that same, I mean, obviously, New Jersey to New Mexico. Yeah, and Alaska for two years. Wow, you really, I thought I had it diverse. But I never went to Alaska because my old man was in the service. You know, and then, yeah, But New Mexico was a big shift. But I always was very connected to the family back east, which becomes a point of pride, really. It's like, yeah, I'm going to go to New York.

Yeah. Well, we would go back, too, because my dad's brother, my aunt and uncle and cousins, and my grandparents were still in New Jersey. Yeah. And it was like that was an amazing thing I like I remember when I was in high school

I made my friend David go with me to New York I'm like let's go I gotta show you New York because he'd never gone he'd never been there and we did that and we

I remember we bought uh Famolari shoes because they gave us three inches and we had fake IDs and it was a big deal we were gonna go get a beer nice

I get hamburger Harry's or somewhere because I'm the shitty place. We're just sort of like we're gonna do it You planning it. Yeah talking about it for a long time pitcher beer and they bring it and you're like We pulled it off it's the best That kind of that kind of excitement best. It went something like that. Ah, that kind of excitement over something like that. Yeah, just sitting there, just kids getting drunk. What's better? Nothing. No, it's all behind us.

So you're in Kansas, and, well, I don't know. I guess I was being presumptuous or making assumptions about what you like, because when you bring up OP and Vans, like, I remember that. Yeah. I had a friend who's very into OPs, and then I got into them. And then I remember the corduroy shirts and the pockets were a certain way. And you'd let your boxer shorts hang below. Under the cuff?

Yeah, so that your boxers were kind of hanging out a little bit below the shorts. Oh, yeah. I didn't get that far away. That was serious. That's when you wanted to up it up, you know. That was it? Yeah. But I remember the shirts to up it up, you know. That was it? Yeah. But I remember the shirts, the t-shirts.

But I don't know if I was into him as much as my friend was into him, but because he was into him, I got into him. But you were all in. But you weren't a punk rock kid or an art kid necessarily. I don't know. I liked...

I remember when I moved to California the first time, I thought it was weird. Every kid has a skateboard. Right. That was a whole new kind of experience. And then I got into kind of skateboarding and BMX. Yeah. But really peripherally.

Could you do pools? No. No. Bunny hops. Yeah. That's about it. That kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. I didn't get into it.

I didn't get into it where I was really proficient. Risking your life. Yeah. But I'd read magazines and learn about zap pads. You didn't need into it where I was really proficient risking your life yeah but I was like but I get you know I'd read read magazines and learn about zap pads you didn't need a helmet though

did you have a helmet I didn't have a helmet oh so you yeah and red lines and mongoose and all of those so you had the shit I had the shit

but you didn't walk the walkway I would have liked to but by the time I think I discovered it I'd already gone to Kansas and that stuff you couldn't find it right but then I started kind of getting into you know uh as a a young teenager

kind of uh weird new well new wave kind of stuff and yeah and and some punk music and yeah uh and and then some euro kind of keyboardy stuff but but because you grew up in the midwest like i'd grew up in albuquerque, you know, you're like, not unlike that movie, what is it? You're with Jason Segel, the Rush movie.

Oh, I love you, man. I love you, man. Like, you know, that, you know, that was part of my life. Like, you know, those bands, like, you know, you had to meet somebody who was, or go somewhere

to turn you on to alternative shit, or you're gonna be locked in with rush and Bob Seger well that foreigner and by the way all of those songs all those artists are playing on Kansas City radio right now they're playing everywhere right now yeah but I mean that's all still Tom Petty yeah that's I had a theory about Kansas City yeah that is Kansas a Kansas City Kansas and Missouri that it like Kansas? Kansas City, Kansas. And Missouri.

No, but like the band Kansas? Oh, the band Kansas. Carry all my wayward son. There'll be peace when you are gone. Yeah. But I always said that you will be able to find Bad to the Bone on the radio at any- Bad to the Bone. One time.

Really? Thorough good? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that was sort of what you were up against. That's what you were- And I didn't like any one time. Really? Thorough good? Yeah. But that was sort of what you were up against. And I didn't like any of it.

I really rebelled against all of that kind of stuff. Really? I didn't like it. No. OP? Was your rebellion? Well, this was a little post. This was a couple years after that. When I was like, hey guys, I'm sorry. I'm listening to Depeche Mode and Howard Jones.

You guys can take your Kansas and your... Look at my skinny tie. And your Uriah Heep. Uriah Heep. That's going back even further. Yeah, well, okay. So your yes, take your yes. Take your yes.

I say no to your yes. Yeah. But you went new wave. That's good. went i went uh yeah i went real new wave any bowie little bowie yeah i like bowie but i was never uh an aficionado like i didn't i don't think i ever quite discovered the brilliance sure well who were you aficionado of i mean howard jones can only go so far yeah i can only go so far. Yeah, can only go so far. I really got into like kind of the Smiths and R.E.M. But then before that, Depeche Mode, huge. My first concert was the Stray Cats. Sure.

And I loved... That was a good few albums. Yeah. I loved... I really liked In Excess. Okay. I'm not judging. You're looking at me like,

what are you going to come at me with that? What are you going to say about that, Mary? I would say Depeche Mode. Was it? There was a, you know, there were a few years there where it's like, if you wrote Depeche Mode on a piece of paper,

I would offer you money for it. Because I just like anything Depeche Mode, just I want to buy it. Yeah? Yeah. That was it, huh? What was their big hit? I'm trying to remember. I know I got a Depeche Mode, just I want to buy it. Yeah? Yeah. That was it, huh? What was their big hit? I'm trying to remember.

I know I got a Depeche Mode record in there with the older records. Like, yeah. Well, People Are People, I think, was probably the big hit that really- But REM, like that was something. That was a time. Yeah. Yeah. So when does acting become an interest to you, really?

Well, I suppose in the abstract, it was always an interest do you know it wasn't anything that we need to deal with abstracts let's deal with abstract in the abstract it was only like you mean like in the abstract because I didn't realize that this was the kind of thing somebody might be able to do I hear that a lot it's kind of interesting well I would you know yeah it wasn't no one in my family had ever done anything sure I was living in a place where this kind of thing. What about siblings? You have them? I have a sister.

How old? Older than you? She's two and a half years younger than me. Okay. And so I think that, you know, the idea of being an actor wasn't something that I really ever wrapped my brain around until I was maybe 16 or 17 and somebody had suggested it but i did kind of gravitate towards comedians and comedy at a pretty young age uh and maybe it's because i moved around so much uh or maybe it has nothing to do with any of that and i just really liked comedians

yeah well no i mean like comedians make sense of things. I think that kids who like me like who are the comedians you like? well, I Loved Steve Martin, you know when those albums right now I think those were seminal to you know a generation of comedians for sure I used to listen to Mel Brooks and the two thousand year old man with my dad Yeah, I loved George Carlin right kid. Yeah, and to this day probably consider him. Maybe my favorite Yeah, do you ever get to work with him or meet him? Never met him. Never worked with well Yeah, cuz I think for me like when I look back at my

My compulsive sort of interest in comedy was because they seemed to have a handle on things These yeah, and they made you laugh and they made sense of things and they made you look at things differently Yeah, you know it was like it, you know When you're younger you're a little vague on what your identity is or who you're going to be you know these guys seem to know what they're talking about who was it for you who was it that well i mean like i when i was a kid i liked uh like i i like jackie vernon and you know don rickles and buddy hackett because my grandmother they he was my grandfather liked slapstick but my grandmother liked those old guys and then like later you know uh you know woody allen became important and then i had all the

carlin records teaching chong records i had the steve martin records and snl for you know that thing but uh but yeah i mean i i mean i and richard prior that when i saw that richard prior live in concert the first movie when i was in high school like 14 or 15 years old i was like what the fuck just happened yeah like me and my friend dave went to a movie theater to see a stand-up comedy movie and it was insane i know to watch it it was insane it's the best yeah you're right it did tend to make sense of things yeah yeah well that's why i got into it i think it was innate like how do you get how do i get a handle on this shit you know it's like well make it funny yeah he figured out and it's interesting

to see how your interest in it and who you're kind of drawn to starts to change yeah where you know i i it's funny like when i hear steve martin talk about those years and how and how unhappy he was yeah or how he doesn't feel uh like it was that funny or what you know i think even as a kid i understood the on some innate sense some part of me of uh this that it's more than silliness that the deconstruction and kind of uh philosophical experience that it it actually was in in silliness same thing with monty python you know we would watch that sure obviously because of british parents like as a kid on pbs you'd have to watch it oh yeah i loved it yeah and uh and so i think there was that first thing of, oh my God, these are grownups acting insane. I've never seen such silliness out of grownups.

And then, you know, and I would love shows like Make Me Laugh and all of, and then getting into- Bobby Van, Make Me Laugh. Bobby Van, yeah. And Bruce- Baby Man Bomb. Bruce Bomb and Gary Mule Deer. I would still go down the rabbit hole of Joe Bolster.

Oh, yeah. And all of those comedians. And then we got HBO, and all of a sudden there was, what is this Robert Klein special? Oh, yeah. There's nine of them. Another one. He still can't stop his foot.

Wait, he's at Yale. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, right. So you at Yale. Yeah. I, yeah, I mean, right. So you like, you just, you loved it.

And then, you know, I remember seeing Steve Martin. I saw Steve Martin on that first tour. Oh, wow. After the first record, it was that the,

it might've been at the, at the pit at the basketball stadium. I remember seeing him. You did. Was it, was it, what was that like? Well, it was great because it was big,

you know, like he was not, I, if I look back on it, he's obviously not an influence or necessarily even somebody that I put in my top 10. But he was something at the moment. It was like he was a rock star. He was sort of like, hey, let's get small. I had the records, but I didn't get the same out of them as I got out of Carlin. Sure. Where you got a history and identity

Well, he's the guy I think that I I probably think of more than anybody and of having more Importance in my life even as an as an adult I think the way that I approach certain things in my life. He was our greatest social commentator There are many times where i think about what's going on in the world and i think about what he said um i'm always thinking about his bit on saving the planet uh he said you know i love people i hate groups but i love people. I think that that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Because then, you know, my interest in comedy was starting to veer. I mean, in my early 20s, got really into Andy Kaufman and then turning into kind of the anti more performance art aspect. This is during the existential crisis period.

I think it was probably. I remember him as a kid and thinking he was really funny on SNL. But you didn't realize the scope of it. Well, I remember watching him on Letterman. Sure. With the wrestling thing? With what?

During the wrestling period? Yeah. I remember the wrestling period and thinking, well, this is kind of weird. Right. And yet, again, feeling like, I think he's doing something to provoke people and not even understanding what that was yeah there was something intrinsically

interesting about it right right um and then i really got into that yeah and his whole thing about getting just uh reactions and hearing stories about some of his early routines about you know coming out on stage eating potatoes and then going to sleep yeah and that was his act and thinking that's brilliant yeah and and unless you're there unless you're there about an hour into that you're like what's happening yeah yeah do we leave yeah having an intellectual appreciation of it and an emotional annoyance yeah no but like so but like okay so so you're in your teens someone says you should get into acting and this stuff's all coming into your head and you know i in basically we're talking about you realizing that maybe it is a profession if these grown-ups can act this silly on some

level right that you know if there's a there's an avenue there well i think that when i do stand up did you go stand up and i used to see stand up whenever people would kind of come through i saw some really cool shows i saw bill hicks in a room of about 20 people oh yeah yeah um when you were in high school or later uh yeah high school really yeah and uh and i saw carlin a few times in kansas city yeah whenever a comedian i said jay leno yeah uh he was good he was great yeah so that was so you loved it i loved it you thought about doing it i i think i thought about doing it for a little while, but not seriously. Again, it was something that I also really liked art and drawing. And it seemed like, well, who's a comedian?

Were you drawing? I was trying to. Yeah. And I think that naturally I started to gravitate towards speech class, public speaking class, and there was a radio and TV class in my junior high and then high school. I used to make these little short movies and do, they called it in Kansas City forensics. It was like speech tournaments and stuff. But I was also hugely influenced, I'd say comedically and just by Letterman.

Letterman was the guy. Right. And so a lot of the stuff that I was doing in high school with a video camera in that class, I think was Letterman-esque or trying to do. Sure. But I would make these shorts and things to show on our school TV channel.

Yeah. My next door neighbor said, have you ever thought about being an actor? Cause I was also doing, you know, like these speech. So you kind of like hosting things and like, kind of like with that, with a kind of Letterman approach. Well, they were more just kind of, yeah. You know, like, like i remember one of the very first ones i did was i i decided that i was going to go out trick-or-treating on october 19th just

to beat the rush and i was going to film it and just see what see what people would give me that's funny um and so that was one of one of the first and then they started to get progressively weirder and this is before kaufman right this before you yeah i was probably about i was probably about 17 16 17 17 maybe um and then what happened which what was the next one um oh i would just they started to turn into like comedy routines i was was going to a grocery store and seeing, I don't know, just taking a camera and seeing what would happen. Yeah. But, and then making videos and things like that.

Were you having a good time? Yeah, it was just fun. Did you have a crew? No, there was one other guy, a friend of mine named Brendan Sneegus, that we would do a lot of these videos together. Yeah, Sneigus. How's he doing? How's he doing?

He's great. I saw him recently. I hadn't seen him in like 20-something years. Good name. Yeah. A good dude. Oh, good. He went into social work.

He's a great guy. Good. That's a noble profession. Yeah. Yeah. But very, very funny guy. You saw him back in Kansas? I saw him back in Kansas, yeah.

That's great. Did you go to a reunion or Kansas? I saw him back in Kansas. Yeah. That's great. And, um. Did you go to a reunion or something? I did. Oh. We used to have, there was a radio show in our, in our school. There was like a little radio booth. Uh-huh.

And you could play music. Uh-huh. And I remember for a secret Santa once I got in class, I got a dolphin that had a, just a horrible squeaking sound. Yeah. And we locked the doors. We named the dolphin Flapjack. Yeah. And we thought squeaking sound. Yeah. And we locked the doors. We named the dolphin Flapjack. Yeah. And we thought we were hilarious.

Yeah. And then just started squeaking it into the microphone and just not stopping. And they couldn't open the door. Yeah. And we did it for, I mean, 10 minutes. Again, this is pre-Kaufman, pre-being introduced to Kaufman. But this is, you can see like-

You had it in you. I had it in i i it's like it it was just waiting to be discovered this amazing propensity to annoy people for long periods of time relentlessly it just repetition it just seemed funny yeah well that is funny sure so the guy tells you you should be, so you're doing all this stuff. Yeah, so I'm doing all this stuff and he had seen my videos and stuff and knew that I did these speech tournaments and he said, have you ever thought about being an actor?

Yeah. This is, I go back to this story and I don't know whether or not it's true. I think maybe it is or maybe I've just said it so much that now I really think it's true. But it seemed to be

a bit of a thunderbolt moment where I thought, hmm, an actor. His son was an actor in New York. That guy's? The guy's. Your neighbor's. My neighbor. Yeah. So you kind of knew it was possible.

And I think that I started thinking about acting more than just comedy. Right. And so then what I do remember feeling when I made the decision to study theater and acting, that I went into it whole hog. Right. I didn't ever waver from it. Right. And I feel like I figured that out as maybe an 18-year-old. And then you got into the theater program in college?

I did a play in college. Yeah, I studied theater in college. Here it comes. Oh, is that the leaf blower? Here it comes. Sounds like an alien ship is about to land. It's coming. What if a bunch of leaves just blow in and the window smashes?

Yeah. What if he just keeps going like a kaufman bit and just comes right behind here and just doesn't shut it off i think you know i i never like usually like i i have i'm trying to like i know they come at this time but i you know i thought we'd get in under the wire but we'll keep going until like we'll just let it be a performance piece yeah and then we'll we'll just wait until it goes away yeah it's exciting you know like we feel like something's going to happen now something's going to happen you could you could maybe even put another somehow bring up a chord on your computer or something we can add a layer of a harmonic to it and it will create well maybe

ambient kind of soundscape well let's do that with our voices. All right. Let's hear it. Wait, did anyone hear it? No, but when it gets close, we'll do it. So you go, you do a play, what, in college, before you get into the program? I did a couple of plays in high school.

I did a play in college. And then when I was at, I went to the University of Kansas, and then midway through, I'm like, I'm going to go to this theater conservatory, this school. In Kansas? In California, called the American Academy of Dramatic Arts. Yeah, I've heard of that. You just decided?

I just decided. Why on that one? Seemed like they had a pretty impressive alumni list. Oh. That was it. So you were festering about it, like, I got to get out and do this. I'd heard, I thought, well, if I'm going to do this, I need to go there because that's where everybody goes. Right.

And I didn't really research other schools. Yeah. I didn't. I just thought, all right, this seems good. I knew somebody else that was auditioning for that school, a friend of mine. But you had to audition. You had to audition. I got in, but I never even visited.

The first day i even saw it was the first day that i went to school there he's just all in i just went i decided i just decided yeah that's all right and um i don't know if it's all right but it's what it's well what do you get caught up in like i'm gonna try to get into yale and so you know you got in go it's acting yeah you're trying to go to juilliard carnegie mell By the way, don't think I didn't have that after the fact kind of, I should have looked at Yale and I should have looked at Carnegie Mellon. I should have looked at Juilliard because it seemed like, oh, those are the places. Those would have killed you.

I would have, I know I would have, I would have embraced. I, one, I doubt, I don't, I doubt I would have. Juilliard sounds miserable. I think maybe it might've been. I have friends that went to Juilliard and loved it Yeah how are they doing career wise Actually a couple of them are doing okay Okay good

Yeah yeah But I don't know I think that now that I have a little bit of I can look back in the rear view mirror You did alright for yourself Well I started thinking Ant man This is the thing about acting schools

They're all going to teach you how to ride an ant Well, I started thinking, this is the thing about acting schools. They're all going to teach you how to ride an ant. No, they're, they all, you know, you're exposed to plays. You're always reading plays and working on scenes. And ultimately, that's it. Yeah. That's what I think. Yeah.

And that's what you do. Yeah. Right? I mean, that's the good part. I mean, you're reading plays and you're working on scenes. Yeah. And you learn, for me, there were certain things in acting school that I was like, what the fuck is this? Where we'll all lie down on the ground, close our eyes, and now we have to act like the color green.

Yeah. And get up and do it. And I remember even starting off, I was doing it all. Yeah. But thinking, what? And if all of my friends walked into this class right now and saw this. Yeah.

And all my friends were not actors. If Brendan came over. Yeah. If Brendan was there. They all just are making fun of it so much. And, and yet there were certain things in school, tangible things.

Yeah. That I could hold on to that made a lot of sense practical practical things like i had a teacher named diana stevenson who was great yeah she said uh here's a way here's a good way to memorize your lines write them out don't say them write them yeah if you're working on a scene and then, and you also have to, you have to look at the other people's lines. Yeah. So you read those so you know

what your response will be and then you start writing it out. Well, it's a great way to memorize things because when you write it out, it gets into your brain

in a much deeper way and then if you mess up, you have to go back and do it again and do it again until you get a word perfect. Uh-huh. And that works for you?

That works. You still do it? That also, I do. Yeah. When I'm doing a play, I Uh-huh. And that worked for you? That works. You still do it? That also, I do. Yeah. When I'm doing a play, I do. Yeah. There's something very tangible about that.

Right. And that kind of stuff, I think- And applicable. Yeah. And if you're doing Shakespeare, there are certain rules that you kind of have to follow. And there are certain things you could do, like buy Shakespeare's glossary and go through

and figure out what it is you're saying. Yeah. And, you know, I wouldn't have learned that kind of stuff without going to school how much how much Shakespeare have you done uh I don't know I don't know a lot I mean not a lot a fair amount sure I mean but I just don't talk like I talk to a lot of actors but not everybody has a stage component that seems to go on. Like, you like doing stage. Well, I liked, I wanted to kind of be, I wanted to have a career that was going to last. And I thought the way to do that

is to know your craft a little bit. And the way to learn your craft if you're an actor is to do theater. Right. All the actors that I really admired did that. Yeah.

And so i went in i went in that direction that's part of why i'm i mean it's a big reason why i moved to new york yeah and uh and i still believe that i still try and it's been a few years since i've done a play but yeah um but i also enjoy doing it yeah well i mean, like we were talking sort of glibly and dismissively about the process of acting. And I do think it applies to, you know, maybe movies and TV in terms of like kids. You really it's it's it's it's almost an experiment in blue balls, you know, in terms of like waiting to do a scene like everything is so disconnected. You know, there's no sort of like narrative through line. Like when you're acting in those things,

it is sort of a job because you've got to take everything apart and show up for bits and pieces. Yeah. And it's not very satisfying. But I imagine the theater, because it's like you start and then you go to the end.

Right. And you got to be in it. That is a very different sensation. And it's also, it can be thankless and it's not, I don't know, the thrill of the stage. That is true. And I know it sounds like I'm contradicting myself. But there's something pretty cool when it's clicking and an audience is into it and there is an exchange of uh energy yeah it's a bit like you know if you're telling a joke or if

you hear somebody telling a joke and they're telling it really really well and there's a kind of a several people around listening to the joke yeah and and it really lands yeah in that build-up to the punch line yeah the the air is charged yeah and so amplify that yeah by you know a thousand people in a theater yeah and what people don't that don't do theater maybe don't realize is just how much energy where the people on stage are getting from the audience, where each show feels drastically different based on who's watching. And it's a strange and fascinating feeling to have it work. Yeah. And you feel that lightness.

Yeah. And in that moment, it's really cool. Yeah. And then when it's done, it's great because it's just like, oh, it's over.

It's like a workout. Yeah, yeah. You feel great after a workout, but you never really want to go to do the workout. Right, right. Sometimes I feel that doing a play. Yeah, yeah.

No, I feel it about, you know, comedy. Yeah. Well, I mean, in a place, I talked to Harvard, David Harvard. He's so funny. He feel it about, you know, comedy. I feel, yeah, I, well, I mean, in a place. I talked to Harbour, David Harbour. He's so funny.

He's talking about, you know, not stage fright, but just panic in general. Yeah. Like, and he just had this, like, he told this story about, like, he'd be like, like, you know, he's in a major play and, like, he's about ready to make his entrance and he's like, somebody get me a script. Like, you know. Yeah, I know that feeling so well.

Like, yeah, what am I supposed to say? Because it is a little bit of, whatever you do for the next 10 seconds, don't think of a pink elephant. Right, right. You know, you're going to. Exactly, right. Whatever you do, you're going to go on stage in front of this many people. Whatever you do, don't forget your lines right right oh god oh god i don't know any of them i don't know any yeah it sucks it's such it's terror it's terror

has that ever happened where you don't know your shit um i have had uh moments on stage where it's like uh blank right or i start thinking two or three lines ahead where you're in the middle of a run and you've done you know 50 performances already and so you can kind of

you know everybody's lines right and and in those moments yeah you can think oh

alright three what's three lines ahead like you just for a second you get out of it. You take yourself out of it. I know what it is.

Too long. And then you're like, oh God, oh my God, oh my God. And momentary, oh, it's the worst feeling in the world. And you just look, like look into the eyes of whoever's on stage with you. They know. Well, they know. And I feel like something kicks in in them where they just take, they go into full on safety net mode.

Right. Or what's really bad is if they get what you got. And then you're both lost. And then you're both lost. That's terrible. And the audience doesn't know well that's the other thing honest isn't honest is never know yeah the terror yeah you're going through the terror or if you mess up i mean any actor that's been on that has done a play people come back afterward and you say oh my god I can't believe you're in that moment. You guys saw it when I did this, this, and this.

And they're like, what? No. It's great. We loved it. Yeah, we had no idea. We're just so egotistical that we assume everyone is really dissecting what it is that we're doing.

That's true. They're thinking about themselves. Everybody's thinking about themselves always. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. But we were talking about comedy and about what's interesting to me like a lot of times it's just people's timing is that you know some people have timing some people don't and like i i think there's a lot uh in terms of what makes me laugh and just like just the timing yeah like you know sometimes

timing you don't even know what was said it was just said just at the right moment the musicality of something and you know it's you like, and you like a certain band because of the way they sound. Right. The way they put their rhythms together. Right. But you have good timing. You have good comedic timing, and it's always great to see you. But I was thinking about that.

I guess your movie career, I know you did a lot of TV here and there, but the Wet Hot American Summer was sort of this big cult hit. Yeah. Did that sort of land you on the radar of things or was it before that? No, I think it was, that was, there are certain things that have kind of, I look back and think,

oh, this was important in a lot of ways. And Wet Hot American Summer was something that, when I read it, I was, oh my God, I love this so much. Yeah. And I knew David, I was, oh my God, I love this so much. Yeah. And I knew David, I knew those guys.

From where? Well, I watched The State. Yeah. And so I knew who they were. Right. And I had become friends with them by the time we started making that film.

Yeah. I had worked on Romeo and Juliet, you know, with Leonardo DiCaprio and Claire Danes. Oh yeah. I was in that

and there was another guy in that named Zach Orth. Zach is also in it. I know Zach. Yeah, so you know Zach. I don't know him, but I've, yeah. He's great. Yeah. And he lived in New York.

Yeah. And I lived in New York, and so we became friends on that film. And then when we got back to Manhattan, he said, you know, my buddies are doing this play. Yeah. Called Sex, a.k.a aka wieners and boobs and uh it was showalter and and uh joe latrulio and a lot of those guys and so i went to go see it and loved it and then david said look we have this script we're trying to make this movie um and i was like oh my god well this is kind of the first thing I've ever read or, uh, that seemed like it was, it kind of spoke to my own sense of humor.

You know, everything was kind of every comedy you'd ever read was like, all right, that's kind of funny, but not like this. Yeah. And so that was the feeling in, in making it, uh, that we all, everyone got the joke. Everyone was friends and everybody kind of even midway through i remember zach saying to me i don't know if this will ever come out i just i just want to have a videotape of it yeah and i was like i know what you mean and and uh and so i think because of that movie yeah um in the comedy world uh people saw it and liked it yeah and and

it certainly played a part in me getting the role in Anchorman which was certainly a kind of sea change you know yeah absolutely it's I think it's time for the interlude We got to do one of these Oh yeah Yeah it's kind of... I love you. I I That was so long I could have done it longer And I laughed Damn it

And I feel bad Breaking it Because it's going against What I Instinctually want to do So you feel like I could do industry i could do this for another 45 minutes right you're in think this like let's just end this way but keep doing

it for an hour keep doing it yeah for an hour and i'm knocked up on the movie knocked up there was a scene where seth rogan and i are in um uh las vegas and uh during that shoot that shoot was like four days in las Las Vegas right uh other guys in the cast yeah came out and we were all going out to Las Vegas as a in a group uh we were like going to go to some um like a like a club yeah and uh and then do you know go around and like something that none of us really are right the guys to do that but we're like this is what you're going to do and I think early on I made a joke i was on my cell phone saying pretending i was calling treat williams and like hey treat yeah it was oh yeah come out yeah we're hitting we're going to rain yeah yeah

yeah yeah uh-huh uh-huh yeah yeah and i made some joke that was uh it wasn't really funny and i realized the only way to make it funny is to just keep talking to him all night. You're intrigued. I was just laughing and just talking to Treat Williams for about three hours or so, three and a half hours. Really? No, I wasn't talking to anybody. Were you getting the reaction to it?

No. The guys were just like, and every few minutes they'd look over and they'd laugh saying, wow, you're sticking with this. Yeah. And I think they had

an appreciation that I was sticking with it, especially because we then went to a few different places and I never engaged in any of the conversation. I just only pretended to be talking to Treat Williams.

Then we went back to a casino and everyone sat at a blackjack table, but you're not allowed to to a casino and everyone sat at a blackjack table, but you're not allowed to talk on a cell phone instead of the blackjack table. So I stood behind them and didn't play and just kept laughing and pretending to talk to Treat Williams. And the whole night out,

I never engaged in anything, only just talked to Treat Williams. And so that is the equivalent of... Let's get, hold on. Where is he and now that i've called attention to it i feel like i can't continue like it i can't continue the length of this but what made me break it in the first place was wondering if somebody was listening to this and do you think either uh one that woke them up yeah or two put a put them to sleep or made them go like this fucking ridiculous i think maybe the majority said all right went all right

fast forward enough right yeah we don't even know if my producer's going to leave it in. No. I think he should. I'll make note. I said, I think it's important to me and Paul that you play. At least if your producer decides to cut it, at least we have to let the people know we did it for a really long time. Yeah, you did it.

I felt at some point during one of those runs that you were like, how long can I do this for without taking a breath? That's right. Like you challenge yourself. Yeah, and the only way you can do it is if you go really, really deep. And not release a lot of air. Yeah, like that.

Yeah, exactly. I'll see how long I can do that. This, this, this, This has to be the most boring thing you've ever done with anybody at the desk. I've never done it. I've never done it. No, me either. I'm just glad you broke because I got to that point where I'm like, am I going to pass out to try to win this? It was devastating.

So Judd Apatow changed everything. Yeah. Anchorman. Huge, huge thing there. And then he became like sort of a Judd Apatow surrogate in a way. Like you played his vision of himself twice, didn't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would it be like in This Is 40?

This Is 40 and then Knocked Up, yeah. Right. Yeah. Would it be like in This is 40? This is 40 and then Knocked Up. Right. Yeah. And that relationship is, are you guys friends? Do you have an understanding? Oh, yeah, yeah. Friends. I saw him two weeks ago.

Yeah. I see him at the comedy store now a lot. Yeah. He's fun, right? Oh, yeah. I love him. Yeah. He's great.

The whole family is great and it's a it was and is a very unique experience yeah to kind of act opposite his wife and daughters yeah with him in the room that is wild it's kind of weird he trusts you i think i think he does yeah yeah i i think he trusts you to be him well he yeah i think he does yeah i remember before trusts you to be him. Well, yeah, I think he does. Yeah. I remember before we did This is 40, he's like, come on over and just hang out at the house and see what our life is like.

Uh-huh. And I remember going with him, like putting the girls to bed. It's creepy. The two of you? Yeah. They're kind of thinking about this. And how'd the girls react?

Were they? I think that they, I think that they were just all right they already knew who i was right you know they grew up like they ever since they were little they knew they knew who i was but yeah um i don't know they were probably already used to so much weirdness in their life that had to do with the movie business yeah now the old man's back doing comedy talking about him. This is what they needed. Yeah. Yeah. And David Wayne and Showalter,

you've sort of grown up with them too, right? Yeah. You've done a lot of their movies. Yeah, and still really close with- That whole community? That whole crowd, yeah. Joe lives around here. I know.

In Don Knotts' old house. Does he really? Yeah, that's Don Knotts' old house. Oh, I had no idea. I've not been over there. I ran into his wife at an event. I saw them at the award show. And I know, like, it's one of those things like, hey, we should all like, yeah, well,

maybe that. I don't know if that's going to happen. Oh, well, I'd like to. But I'm sure he would too. I know. But like, how do you do that as grownups? I got to figure out how to do that. It's harder.

It's harder as grownups. It's harder when you're married. It's harder when you're married it's harder to have kids and it's sort of like you know we're not you know we we've sort of known each other just in passing right so like let's try the new friend thing and yet you two would be uh total chums yeah yeah no i like him he's done he's been in here yeah in the old garage yeah oh i saw you in duncan jones's movie that was the interesting turn like the the like you don't you need to do a few more movies where you're just a completely horrendous person yeah that was fun yeah i you know i i liked it a lot of it you know i thought it was an interesting movie and i thought that the riff on the original who was the other guy was it justin thoreau yeah

that the riff on the original mash was was odd. Yeah. To make those characters horrible. Really weird. Yeah. And to put them in that movie. Yeah. In the future. Yeah. In Berlin.

It was so, when I read it, I was like, huh? Yeah. And I met Duncan, who I really like. Yeah. And I think is a really talented filmmaker. But he's the one that kind of explained it to me and I thought, well, I want to go along for this ride. It seems like it's a weird one.

Well, I thought that it was, like I was sort of surprised that, you know, sort of like you're one of these guys that we've all grown to know and love in terms of the range that you've made available in the movies, movies right the comedies like you know i you know we've seen you sad and happy and whatever but we haven't seen you menacing necessarily and you know like it's funny because you enter it like i'm watching i'm like

oh look it's cute paul rudd and then you're like what the fuck yeah awful person yeah he's like yeah but you turn like like when you get evil you're like, no, he can do that. It would be nice to do it more often. Right. I don't think people necessarily think of me for things like that, nor maybe want to see me and things like that. But isn't that interesting? People, they know you have a marketable quality that's worked for you for many years. And obviously, it's a big part of who you are, but you are an actor. Right.

So does that get frustrating? Yeah, at times. Yeah. And have you tried to do things that- I have, and sometimes they're the right things, and sometimes they're not. Yeah. I've been offered throughout the years things that were dramatic roles roles but i just didn't really connect with them right i don't want to do something dramatic or play a bad guy for the sake of playing a bad guy right the right thing yeah

um and i've done done it on in plays yeah um more than movies or anything like that but um it it can be a little uh frustrating but that's you know at the same time to complain about certain things seems a little no no i get it i get but like what i mean you've got it's got to be available to you in a small movie an indie movie where it's just a matter of i i would imagine having discussions with a director like you must have had with duncan where you know it's it's sort of who would want you to play against type yeah i mean every once in a while i meet a filmmaker who does yeah um and uh i think in the right thing it can be an effective thing sure i have a preconceived notion yeah yeah yeah who i am right um but i never really had the kind of um

purposeful decision making that said i'm going to do something dramatic because i just did a comedy yeah you know i'm going to switch it up and really and maybe i should have no but i i didn't really and don't really think in um that way yeah uh i think more in terms of wow i really like this a lot of comedies i read and i was like these are really fun i think they'd be fun to work on i love the people and with people i'd work many times yeah and in truth that is really what i probably enjoy the most yeah why why fuck that up i don't know yeah i i these are also at the end of the day yeah it's a movie right so who gives a shit nobody cares it's not that important anyway 99 of the world doesn't care at all but um is that true i think so but some things are memorable well absolutely you know some movies like they're they change lives they do yeah they do and they look they had enough

of an impact on me they changed my life look at what i want to do for a living right but like my girlfriend like uh i'm like i'm gonna interview paul rudd and she's like who is he again and i said well you know he's in the jet habitat oh the one who was looking at the hemorrhoid on his own asshole i'm like yeah that guy's like oh that was funny so you know there we go i changed your girlfriend's life you're that guy i'm that guy um so anyway what i was was going to say is that, you know, you see a movie and it's two hours. You don't like it. You can walk out.

Right. But when you're making it, it's months on end and you're in it. And so the experience, I have certainly done it enough now for a long enough time that the experience of working on something counts uh a lot yeah and sure i want to enjoy it yeah it's like it's half a year yeah of your life sometimes right when you do that do you usually have the kids over or what do they do no i mean not it normally i'll go i'll travel back on weekends right right i mean a lot of the marvel stuff has been shooting in georgia and because i live in uh new york it's really easy. Not too bad, yeah. It's not too bad.

If it's during the summer, they'll come with me. But they got their lives now. That's honestly the hardest part of this whole job. Is being away from the kids? Yeah. Yeah, I bet. Well, good luck with the movie. Thank you.

Are you shooting something now? You got something coming up that you want to break news? No, no. I got no news to break. You're going to do the Ant-Man publicity and then have a summer or what? Yeah, which is going to take up a big chunk of the summer. You're just starting it? Just starting.

It opens when? July 6th. Oh, yeah. So you got a couple weeks, huh? Yeah. Yeah. And then it comes out later in Europe because- You got to go over there right after?

Yeah. You still have family in England? I do. Oh, that'd be nice. Yeah. Do you see them? Yeah, I'll see them. I'm only going to be there for about two days, but I'm going to see them, yeah.

All right, buddy. Well, I'm glad we got to do this finally. Yeah, me too. And we did some experimental stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. We made an ambient an ambient soundtrack yeah we did a lot of things here today we really did yeah i feel i feel you've really we've run ourselves through the ringer let's just go to joe trulia's house and knock on the door yeah and go like hey look hey we're here tell us about don knots did you find anything in the attic? Oh, Don Knotts. All right.

Lovely man, just as expected. Lovely person, that Paul Rudd fella. Glow on Netflix is up. Season two is on now. Okay? I'll play some guitar. I'm playing sloppier guitar. I'm playing more distorted guitar because, I don't know, it's satisfying.

You know? And the action on this guitar is way too high, and I don't know what happened. If it bowed or what, but I gotta bring it in to get fixed. But, you know, strings are old. But, Ian, why can't I just keep up? Do I need a guitar tech for my hobbying? Is that what I fucking need?

A guitar tech for my hobbying? Is that what I fucking need? A guitar tech for my hobbying? Am I at that point in my career? Thank you. Boomer lives! by innovators. Innovation is in the city's DNA, and it's with this pedigree that bright minds and future-thinking problem solvers are tackling some of the world's greatest challenges from right here in Calgary. From cleaner energy, safe and secure food, efficient movement of goods and people, and better health solutions, Calgary's visionaries are turning heads around the globe, across all sectors, each and every day. Calgary's on the right path forward. Take a closer look how at calgary economic development.com. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of kids night when the Toronto rock take on the Colorado mammoth at a

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