WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 936 - Sue Costello / Jim Gaffigan

Episode Date: July 25, 2018

Marc welcomes back to the show two comedian friends from the early years of WTF, both of whom have experienced a lot of changes in their lives since their previous visits. First, Sue Costello talks with Marc about how she persisted in the face of ingrained show business obstacles and is finding herself coming out clean on the other side. Then Jim Gaffigan tells Marc how one day he was out there doing comedy and the next day his family life went topsy-turvy after his wife's visit to the doctor. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance, mind your business.

Calgary is an opportunity-rich city home to innovators, dreamers, disruptors, and problem solvers. The city's visionaries are turning heads around the globe across all sectors each and every day. They embody Calgary's DNA. A city that's innovative, inclusive, and creative. And they're helping put Calgary and our innovation ecosystem on the map as a place where people come to solve some of the world's greatest challenges. Calgary's on the right path forward.

Take a closer look at CalgaryEconomicDevelopment.com. Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucking ears what the fucksters what's happening i'm mark maron this is my show wtf welcome to it how's it going are you okay are you though seriously look at me look at me are you okay come on come on what's going on what's going on double header today there's been a couple of these because what happens is, as some of you know who listen to the show, I do rarely do interviews with people again. I'll have them if they're a friend of the show or I like them or they're my pal. I'll let them do shorties, as we call them, to promote something. But the last few shorties have been a little longer than shorties, so I had to put two shorties together.

And today I got Sue Costello on the show for a bit and Jim Gaffigan on show for a bit. Both of them have some things going on, as I do. Might I tell you about it? I am touring a bit of the country. Now, I am getting a lot of tweets from people who are like, when are you coming here? When are you coming there? Philly? When are you coming to Buffalo?

Whatever it is. When are you coming here? When are you coming there? Philly? When are you coming to Buffalo? Whatever it is. This is really a tour to sort of get an hour in place and work out some stuff. I imagine I'll do a broader tour in maybe the spring.

But for now, I'll be at Wise Guys in Salt Lake City, Utah, August 3rd and 4th. I will be at the Comedy Attic in Bloomington, Indiana, August 31st through September 1st. I'll be at Acme Comedy Club from, that's in Minneapolis, September 6th through the 8th. And I will be at the Comedy Works in Denver, Colorado, September 21st and 22nd. And I'll do a one-nighter at Stand Up Live in October. That's in Phoenix. Now, all these dates are selling quickly. Minneapolis is almost sold out. I don't know where Indiana is at. But if you want to come, you know, come.

But get tickets now. Go to WTFpod.com slash tour for all the links. And there you go so i i'm starting to to shift a little bit i'm starting to shift a bit on the on the superhero movie um not not my argument or in not my condescension i i still have those but i i have found an avenue for some empathy and and and look i didn't read comic books as a kid i didn't but it sort of did i read them as a grown-up but they weren't the marvels it doesn't matter but it kind of does matter in terms of when i grew up and what i grew up surrounded with and look when you're a kid even when you're not a kid when you're a fucking grown-up you may think you have a good handle on

you know what you let into your brain and how it affects your brain but you do not uh you've got to have some real resilience and strength of character and ability to process what is affecting your desire system or pummeling your ability to be attached to reality in a fairly concerted way, especially if you're a news junkie or you're constantly engaged with online content. Your brain, no matter what you think you are, who you think you are, is fairly malleable, and it can happen on very kind of subtle levels. You know, I don't know why sometimes when I decide to do something, you know, within a month, I noticed a lot of people are doing it. And I don't I don't think I'm really susceptible to that stuff. But I am, whether it be boots, records, a type of car, you know, like, you know, somehow or another, there is a frequency.

you know like it somehow or another there is a frequency there is kind of a vibration in the fucking zeitgeist that generates consolidation of desire around certain products but in terms of the superhero movies like i still am completely on board with my argument but uh you know what it was funny because box brown comic book artist, and he did some great books. His last book was about Andy Kaufman. It's great. I read his stuff, but he was tweeting about this stuff a little bit. And it kind of provoked me to take a look at it. There's some interesting stuff about growing up in the 80s where some things went down.

growing up in the 80s where some things went down some things went down in terms of deregulation that may have affected some of you people now look by by 1981 i'm graduating high school by 85 i'm in college and i'm well on my way to picking through the wreckage of the culture's past to somehow figure out what's exciting and important, whether it be Beatniks, Bukowski, the old music, the old movies. You know, I was I was on a sort of like pseudo intellectual trajectory at that point, which I seem to have completed. But what I'm trying to say is there was an FCC chairman named Mark Fowler. chairman named mark fowler and this is during the reagan administration and they did some fairly serious deregulating that you know had to do with uh with advertising but more concisely to my argument have something to do with uh the child brain yes they they allowed they did they sought to declare the television an appliance and not the uh the incredibly powerful desire shifting

hypnotic box that it is they were able to get rid of regulations around advertising to children on children's programming they could dump as much shit into the kids heads as they wanted to okay and then at this time like star wars i kind of missed that i was young enough maybe but it didn't interest me that much but after star Star Wars, there was this movement towards toys. And, you know, this isn't specifically about comic books, but after the success of the Star Wars toys, which happened with a small manufacturer, the large manufacturers are what can we do? And at around the same time, they got the freedom to plow as much shit into kids heads as they could. And they invented He-Man. Now, He-Man wasn't even a real comic book character,

but they sold the fuck out of that thing, and they built a comic book around it, and they created a show around it, and they plowed that into the heads of kids, you know, all day long in the 80s. And they could do this with anything. Actually, there was plenty of programming, children's

programming with superhero style stuff that was basically just a prolonged advertisement to shove a toy into your kids hands so this is a this is a big deal because you were young you know i was too old for this to happen but i know that some of you who may feel so hurt or upset, maybe you don't even understand why you're so upset with my perfectly reasonable assessment of the problem with superhero movies and its effect on culture. Seems like some of you take it very personally. Like there's like, like there's a reactiveness to it, a defensiveness to it that, that may come from shame, you you know and i'm like

i might take a step further it might come from from what i would almost call trauma in that you know when you were a kid you were brain raped by he-man and and i and i feel bad about that that that republican deregulations in the 80s enabled toy manufacturers to let you be brain raped by He-Man. But here's what I'm saying is to some of you who are taking it so personally and so upset, you know, I understand. I empathize. I understand now. You were brain raped by He-Man and you were not old enough to defend yourself and now you just you know you have that little hidden kernel of shame in your heart

and and you don't quite understand why but you'll defend superhero movies as if they're actually going to save the planet so that's that part of it so there is something that happened analogous to uh to uh you know allowing the children of our nation to be brain fucked mind raped by he-man thus creating a dysfunctional but uh almost um love for the predator for the victimizer for the abuser that manifests itself in a shameful uh sort of connection and adoration and uh uh deep uh troubling love for superheroes is that around the same time in the 80s that during the deregulation craze of mark fowler at the fcc who started to sort of like get rid of the fairness doctrine and over time it dissolved where equal time had to be granted to both sides if uh if political pundits or ideologues were appearing on tv shows so that

was sort of around the same time during re. That was gotten rid of as well, which opened the door to constant political programming with ideological bias, which was the seeds and the beginning of the unleashing of Fox News and the situation we are in politically now, culturally and politically. So there you have two sides of the repercussions

and results of deregulation republican leadership in the 80s with reagan you have a you have a whole generation of kids starting in the mid-80s who who are now grownups and just sort of like, you know, like reactively defend superheroes just shy of stomping up and down. And you have Donald Trump. There are two different camps. I know a lot of the people who are in the superheroes are progressive people, but but it's just but it's interesting. Isn't it interesting?

So Sue Costello, who is my guest, this is a fast-paced uh jaunt here she's uh mounting a production of the i am sue costello experience at the masonic theater in the hollywood forever cemetery this october she set up a gofundme page for it at gofundme.com slash i am sue costello you can see more about the productions of the play when she did it in new york and new england suecostello.com. You can also check out her podcast there. Sue and I go way back, and she had something to talk about. So she came on the show because I like talking to Sue Costello.

This is me and Sue Costello. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Gold tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes.

Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer.

I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Not as big a deal? Yeah, the old days. Yeah, it's just like, is this real? Yeah, I got a great idea, Sue. Come on to my hotel room.

Wait a minute. We're not supposed to be having meetings in hotel rooms anymore. Yeah, not anymore. This isn't a meeting. This is actually a studio. It's officially a studio. No, not just a meeting. It's all on the level, Sue.

On the level. Well, I know how to protect myself, so. Oh, that's right. You're like, do you still, are you like still, how are you, in good shape? I'm in good shape. You look like you're in good shape. Thank you. What do you do for the exercise?

Yoga. It's all yoga now? All yoga. No jumping around? No jumping around. No boxing? No boxing. The boxing was a period in time when I had to get all the anger out.

And it's out? Mm-hmm. No more anger? Mm-mm. Well, it comes in moments and then it passes. How do you get it to pass? No, seriously. Boundaries.

Oh, you mean angry with people in moments? You have boundaries? But what if you're just sitting around seething? What if your brain's just sort of like, well, this stinks and I'm fucked? It doesn't do that. It doesn't do it? Never did? Yeah, it did.

Oh. It doesn't do it anymore. I healed that. You healed it? Mm-hmm. By? By walking through it. Yeah?

Yeah, that's when I really learned is that all my work now is all about this, when theory hits the, you know, when the rubber hits the road, when theory hits reality, what is it really? And how do you really change? And the whole country now, the isolation is what's killing people. And I've always, I mean, I've been saying this stuff for 20 years. Yeah. I've been saying it for 30 years.

Yeah. And now it's all coming to fruition, what I've always said, which is the isolation is what was killing us because we were all in our brains right and not connecting or now it's separated in our little pods of information not just in our brains but now we can now choose which reality we want to engage in while we're sitting there in our brains well it's also dehumanizing us which is what i've always talked about dehumanizing how well we're not considering each other as human beings i mean we can get can get going right now from the get-go with this. So everybody's talking about how we're going to turn into computers.

Yeah. We are going to turn into computers if something drastic doesn't happen. And I believe with every fiber in my body that we were on the verge of one of the biggest spiritual revolutions that history has ever seen. And now we're on it now. Yes, we're on it now. So there's hope. Oh, my God. There's so much hope. All there is there's hope. Oh my God, there's so much hope.

All there is is hope now. Yeah? Yeah, that's all there is. Well, because when is humanity going to come together? When things get really shitty. When we're about to be extinct. Yeah.

That's when I have, but I've been saying, I'm telling you for 30 years I've been saying this and they crush me, crush me, crush me, crush me, crush me, crush me, crush me, crush me, crush me. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, but not because you were, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, but not because you were saying that. Yeah, in a way, because I was saying it. Because they didn't want to hear it. They wanted to do the buildup first. They wanted to do the greed and the money and the whole thing first. Right.

So are you abiding by any prophecy other than your own? No. No. I'm trusting the force. Yeah. The force that you have harnessed. Yes. And you you know what's weird is i really have harnessed it because so we were just talking about uh being defensive before we turned on the mics right so what i realized no one knows that about me so now you everybody i mean everybody's defensive and like so so i'm from boston i was and i all believe i

believe that we all come into the world, of course, pure. Yeah. And then we get- For about a day. Well, we get- Depending on the situation. Okay, so what I figured out is that we all come into the world pure. Yeah.

And the second we exit the womb, we are body autonomous. Yeah. So no mother, no person outside of you can do anything. You are like on your own. Kind of. Yeah. No, I mean, the second you come out of your womb, I've, I've, what my understanding is you, you can't just, uh, you know, start your life on your own at that point.

Well, because you need somebody to take care of you up until the point that, yes, and they need to pay the rent for you and eat, but even if. Protect you, feed you, teach you how to speak, you know, that stuff. Right, but even that is formed through society. Sure, yes. Socialization is taught through. But there's a symbiotic thing

that happens between you and your mother, even if it is disrupted, there is a primal union that you are in with them and it happens on a psychic level and biological level which brings us we're going right at it so the human thing so yeah the human thing I feel like we're on the verge of a spiritual revolution and so you're talking about the moms in

the in the primal connection yeah so yes our mom is our as our primary caregiver yeah so what's going on with the men nowadays yeah is it's all mommy issues it's mommy and. So what's going on with the men nowadays is it's all mommy issues. It's mommy and daddy issues what's going on with the women and the men actually. But for women, we can turn from our primary caregiver to have sex. Men can't. Men have to have sex with the same sex.

Well, if you're straight. Same sex as their primary caregiver. So it's much more complicated for men. We're once removed. So now how does this all factor into what's happening with you now? Well, I've been, since I started my career, I've been, I always, I always talked about love. I listened to the first WTF yesterday that I.

That we did. I had never listened to it before. Seven years ago. Never listened to it before. And I was like, oh my God, everything I talked about then I wasn't conscious of yet. Yeah. But I knew it. But you were coming out of some pretty hard times then, as I recall.

I was coming out of some really hard times. But now I'm like, oh, I had to go through those hard times. So now I have perspective. And now I look back and I go, I almost brought it on myself so that I could. Oh, yeah? It's like the hero's journey is what happened to me. Sure. Sure.

Have you been reading some Joseph Campbell? No. People told me about me about it though and it sounds like the same thing i mean i think that here's the thing too these stories they're all the same sure of course they are if you if you do actually try if you do get through the hardships and then rise above them to a different place if there's a transformation yes that's a hero's journey. You don't want the anti-hero's journey. But there are a lot of people that are anti-hero's journey. Oh, the streets are filled with them. Yes. And you cannot save those people.

So let's break it down just from what we've talked about so far. Because you're putting together a new show, right? I'm putting together. I have so much going on. But the show is going to save humanity. No. Oh, yeah. Tell them that, Mike.

That would be great. That's hilarious because then they'll twist it and be like, Sue, and then it will be all good. You just set me up to go all the way down by saying that. That's all they need is that one sound clip. I do not have that much power. Yes, that's all they need is that one sound clip that they say, Sue. And then they'll say, I said it.

And they'll say, Sue Costello said she was going to save humanity. I don't think anyone's that concerned about either of us. And I'll tell you, Sue, if it goes viral that you're going to save humanity, then it'll be a good first week of the show. But I'll have to really live up to that. That will be a lot to live up to. No, don't pressure yourself. You're totally setting me up right now. No, from what you've told me, you've been sort of saving humanity for 30 years.

But that's it. It's funny how you're taking my words, you're twisting it, and you're sending it out on your podcast. And so then your listeners are going to listen to what you said. And I didn't say that. Okay. Well, what you said is that we are on the verge of a spiritual catharsis culturally. Right. And then you turned that into me saying I'm saving humanity.

So how did you get to that? How I got to that was that, you know, you talked about love. You talked about personal transformation. you talked about love you talked about personal transformation you talked about knowing what's happening what's going to happen 30 years ago and that you have a lot of hope so i was figuring the arts you're putting into the world is going to be proactive i exaggerated absolutely proactive and maybe i don't know maybe i'm underestimating myself maybe it will help humanity well i would hope so it sounds from like from where you're coming from sure it will well that's so i so i hope so. It sounds like from where you're coming from, sure it will.

Well, so I've been doing the play. I have my podcast. The same play or how's that evolved? Same play. What's it called again? I Am Sue Costello. Right. And it's on your pants. It's on the label of your jean pants, your shorts.

Hashtag I Am Sue Costello. Yeah. So it used to be called Minus 32 Million Words when I was there. Did you make those labels for your shorts? No, somebody made them for me. Oh, that's nice. It's cool, there. Did you make those labels for your shorts? No, somebody made them for me. Oh, that's nice. It's cool, right? Yeah, who?

Who makes labels for your shorts that say you have your hashtag? Some lady in Union Square. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Okay. And all the girls are like, oh, those are cool. Oh, those are cool. And then you just do a little bit of branding.

That's what I said to you when you were on Good Morning America this morning. Yeah. The visual of you. Yeah. People, visual is important, especially nowadays. They don't have the attention span. So even though you felt like it went fast, they still got the visual of you on the tv and that might be enough for people to register nowadays sure yeah i don't take it too seriously

not as seriously as i used to you know i dressed up nice and i combed my hair and i showed up and i was present and i answered the questions and i talked about my show and and then i left that's good but then you don't get so emotionally involved and you're like okay there you go you go. There's another little. Yeah, I guess. I just, after you do, there's another little, there's another little, there's another little. Do they all add up? I don't know. You know, from what you said at the beginning that people are isolated in their minds and now because of the computer, they're stuck in a sort of a non-reality that's disconnected from other, from real people that, you know, where is it really going? What's really happening? Does it register at all?

Or is it just moms getting their kids ready for school? They look over at the computer and go, that guy's got a trimmed beard and then they turn away and that's the end of it. I don't know. Which goes back to, again, that everybody has this theory that we're going to turn into computers.

We're creating these computers that are going to be more powerful and smart than us and they're going to take over. They're already here. Right. The singularity you're talking about. yes the ai all that stuff so my theory is not my theory yeah my soul belief my whole purpose for being on this earth is to talk about humanity yeah because i feel like that's the whole humanity and humility well yeah humility is so strong though that's I'm learning, is when you crush the ego, the humility gets you everything.

Sure. The ego kills you. Yeah, because you're now fully present with your heart. What I've been working on is transcending all of it, transcending gender, transcending race, transcending going to the spirit. Yeah. And so I've been doing this human guinea pig. Uh-huh. I've been this this human guinea pig.

I've been this human forensic accountant of what's really going on. And what activities do you do to do that? Well, I show up no matter what fear comes. Everybody says to me, Sue, how do you cope? And I'm like, it's not coping. What I'm actually doing is I'm actually engaging in life. And that's what I think people aren't doing because we're taught. We have been grinded down so much to not have any feelings and we all have feelings so and i it's my belief that it's all coming out on the earth now it's all kind of night this was the play years ago and i didn't i

wrote it before i knew it was going to happen yeah so what's going on internally is happening externally to ourselves we're actually doing it to ourselves with the energy sure yeah i agree with that yeah so what i've been doing is is trying to walk through the fear in my brain, the isolation that keeps me. This film, it's almost like, I want to say The Wizard of Oz. I want to say that you see all those things that say behind that little veil of fear is everything you ever wanted. Crabs in a bucket, I called it in my play.

There's like four people that told you you can't do something, and then there's 75 million that believe you can uh-huh but to break through those four break through what's in your head yeah sure and then and then i read i'm and i've been reading and studying and listening to people my whole career that's all i've been doing yeah because all i've done is suffered sexism my whole career i've literally been they've taken my money they've grabbed my ass they've done every everything that's happened now i'm like i've already been to all of it so i'm like assault as well assault in terms of like uh grabbing your ass is assault right but that like but like uh what what other things like um like

when you say that i've never been raped so the point as i was coming down on the train i was thinking and i'm learning like i would have been with somebody that said why don't they just say something yeah and so i read about it and it's like it literally says that women don't say anything because they're they can't even speak yeah because they're saying this isn't happening yeah and i was like oh yeah that that happens in life when you haven't even when you haven't been raped either you a lot of resistance to what's going on is like, this isn't happening, so we can't take care of ourselves. So the trauma, the abuse, and then I read about how when a rape victim goes on trial, what they do is they try to trigger the PTSD. And I was like, oh, that's what's going on. That's why they had this whole Me Too movement, because of all the abuse that's been going on.

So I was thinking, okay, so I don't know what it's like to be raped, but I know what it's like to be abused. So I'm like, well, why don't I try to lean into all of this for all of us? Let me see if I can lean in because I don't have that extra pain, which I can't even imagine. And let me see if I can research it and then articulate it for women. Great. So that we can change. That's great. Yeah.

So how are you doing that? So it started last summer. Well, I did it with the play. I've been doing it with the play all along. I had no idea what I was doing. Does the play evolve? Do you add things? The play is completely evolving.

And not only is it evolving, so now it's, I did it two weeks ago, and it was the first time I felt comfortable enough to have a talk back afterwards. Oh, wow. Because, you know,

you're vulnerable putting yourself out there. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, but I want to see, because this brand that I, wow. Because, you know, you're vulnerable putting yourself out there. I'm like, but I want to see because this brand that I'm building is all about building community, letting people talk, all for solution though.

Sure. Not for division. Everybody's so divided. I'm like, let's go. I want to just give them a role model of something that's completely different than what's out there right now.

And especially for younger women, like I want them to have a role model that's like, oh, it's cool to get older. Oh, you get smarter as you get older if you don't give up. Like, oh, you get more power as you get older. Yeah.

So that's, I want to become just something else that people can look at, like almost turning the lens. I don't want to change the world. I just want to turn the lens a little and go, if you don't like what's going on over there, look at this and see if maybe this is what you like. Right, or whether you can take action within the world that you exist in for yourself, this and see if maybe this is what you like right or or whether you can take action in the within

the world that you are exist in for yourself that will be proactive and and have a change there and also it's okay to be in the world that you exist in which is another thing that's causing human beings a ton of pain where they taught us like you got to be rich you got to be this you got to be that you got to be this and like people that do blue collar jobs like the middle class has been wiped out because of all this like uh of the advertising and i'm telling you need to be rich and the addiction and everybody thinking they need more and get being more than their neighbors and more more more more more yeah and i talked about this six years ago you can go back and listen to the idea of like not being in the present like i was on stage one night and this guy's like i said what do you do and he's like well i'm a mechanic it's not that great of a job and i was like

why i'm like everybody drives we all need mechanics and his whole face lit up yeah right because he's judging himself against what we have grown to believe success is yes because of cultural pressure and and status but he wants to be a mechanic. Mm-hmm. But he's been taught by the culture that that's not worthy, that's not enough. He's just literally torturing himself for no reason because he doesn't need to torture himself and he is very valuable to us.

Absolutely. And so that's the idea. This whole middle class thing has been wiped out. It's like that was America. That was the heart of America, the middle class. You were allowed to not not capitalism was supposed to be you take risks and you get to build a business and you get to make more money yeah if you want to do that the middle class and then the people that were poor and yes some of the people that are poor they do take advantage of the system what it's just part of the equation like if you own a bar yeah when you do the uh accounting of the bar

you you factor in that you're going to get stolen from right it's just part of the life like all this resistance to this perfection and how it should be is what's called i mean and all the spiritual leaders talk about this this separateness and that's what causes us to so what about what are some of the other things that you talked about because when you came in you were excited uh about how much of what you said you were going to do you did. Okay.

So what is it? So I listened yesterday so Lawrence Fishburne and Les Moonves were two people that I talked about six years ago. Yeah.

And I talked about how Les Moonves always believed in me. When you had the show when Costello was on. Before Costello. He's the first guy to give me my deal.

Yeah. And for the show that ran. No. He gave me my first deal and I did a pilot yeah for and for the show that ran uh no he gave me my first deal and I did a pilot yeah and then from that pilot I was supposed to be on Murphy Brown right and then but what happened with Murphy which is so funny because Murphy Brown's coming back it's like everything's coming full circle yeah so what I found out later on is he wanted to keep me on CBS I was supposed to go to ABC and so he kind of pushed me on Murphy Brown and she

wasn't having it right and there was a great example of pitting women against each other uh-huh yeah because i thought it was murphy brown all the time and i mean and candace bergen and it wasn't i'm like it makes sense that she flexed her muscles back yeah i didn't know i was just a pawn it wasn't her she didn't want to be pushed around which makes sense sure especially back then being a woman i mean can you imagine now in hindsight you got your little little piece, and now someone's- Yeah, and then she's like, who's this young girl coming in who's the star, and they're going to use my show? Yeah.

In my head, I thought it was a great move because I thought I was going to learn from somebody. Yeah. Right, but she didn't see it that way. She didn't know you. No. Right. And now that I'm older and smarter, I'm like, of course she didn't.

That was naive of me, but I didn't know. So then what happened? A couple years before that, I met with ABC. ABC came to me Because Katie Couric's show Got cancelled Yeah And they wanted me

To take over for Katie Couric They wanted me to do a talk show Yeah And I thought back To when I had my TV shows When I had the TV deals The head of MGM Kept saying to me

Sue you need to do a talk show Because you have Oprah like qualities Yeah And at the time I didn't have the self esteem And I was like But I'm a sitcom person

Yeah So then ABC came to me So I was like Alright maybe this is The way I should go Okay maybe this is The and I was like but I'm a sitcom person so then ABC came to me so I was like alright maybe this is the way I should go okay maybe this is the way I should go so I go and I meet with them

and I told them that I wanted to do my talk show and my talk show was going to be because the celebrity myth was breaking it was over

because of social media I wanted to bring humanity back to everybody so that we could all so it wouldn't turn into a big mess and so I wanted to do a talk show where I had a celebrity. And you were there at my Hope Trumps Fear storytelling event.

So I did that storytelling event with Trump's name in it a long time ago. I was on the show, right? Yes. And so I've been forecasting stuff before it's happened long before it even happened. So that storytelling event was where you had to tell a story where hope overcame fear. Yeah. And it was hilarious watching you and a couple other people who were very cynical

have to come around to hope. That was one of the funniest part of the whole thing was to watch- Watch Mark come around to hope. Yes, to set up like the perimeters where somebody had to find the hope in the story. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

And everybody said that was the best night they ever had. So all these things that I've done along the way have shown me I'm onto something. Yeah. I'm onto something. I'm on to something. My TV show. They said I was ahead of my time back then. I look back at my TV show now.

I was talking about the disenfranchised middle class white men back then. I just didn't know what I was talking about yet. So I go to ABC and so I pitch in this TV show about how I want to draw the lines, the similarities, the humanity between the regular people and the celebrities. And then I was going to create a show where celebrities could come on and handle their own image instead of like the stuff like TMZ and everything was so out of control. I'm like, they're going to be excited about coming on because they're going to be able to talk about what they want to talk about, who they really are. And I'm a safe person to do that with, which is why the Hope Trumpumps fear storytelling event worked because i'm safe yeah same thing happened when i hosted later

larry flint came on yeah and he was so afraid i was going to attack him for porn and i wanted to talk to him about what it was like to take a bullet for something you believed in yeah so my mind never goes to judging people it goes to finding out why they do what they do and empowering people do you ever think about starting a podcast i have i just started my i am sue costello podcast the new version of it i just did like i have like 11 episodes of it can people get them yeah they can get it on itunes and at my website so back to abc so i pitched the show i pitched the show i pitched the show now they want me to take over for katie cork katie Couric is like an empathetic. Yeah. I've talked to her.

She's nice. Yeah. And so they're like, oh, you mean like Chelsea Handler? And I go, no. I wanted to do it. Yeah. But I wanted to do this show that I wanted to do.

Not Chelsea Handler. You didn't want to be bitchy. You're not that person. I didn't say that, but I'm just not that. I wanted to be me. She'd be fine with it. Okay.

I just wanted to be me. That's all I've ever wanted to be. And everybody's no you're them and i'm like no i'm me you seem pretty you you've always seemed pretty you i don't know how who was arguing that but i believe they all have been yet they all and into their defense like they did put me on tv well what that what happens is is when you have a big personality an expansive personality that is not narrow they they just project onto you do you know what i mean like i i used to think it was stifling but like it's misunderstanding they don't know the breadth of your uh compassion your emotions your empathy whatever they just see you as like oh you're that

girl you're the girl that talks like that and you kick some ass and that's great oh which is funny too so we were talking about the defensiveness in the beginning so what i realize is that i am kind inside, but when somebody would attack that kind of kindness, because that's what I'm realizing about human nature is that people attack the love. And I talked about this seven years ago about love being the only answer.

And people talk about that all the time. And everybody's like, what does that mean? And our aversion to love. This is what the aversion is to love. This is what I've been doing for seven years. It's that we attack it in each other because we don't believe it's true. So as much as when something bad's happening, we say this isn't happening, same thing happens when something good is happening.

So we attack it. And so the people that are being attacked take on the attack and act out from the attack. So you can talk about that from the sexual. You can talk about that from the physical. You become what happened to you and you act out on it or you become quiet and you become complicit. Yeah, and either way, those can be mistaken as personalities and they're not, they're reactions. And the flip side of that is the people that are doing the abusing

do the same thing. They create this kind of monster that's separate of them, separate from the experience so that they can commit the crime and what they're doing. Right, yeah. I used to do, I have a line, a joke that I used to, I think I did on my last special where I said, it was something i wrote down uh well it's hard to manage the monster i created to protect the kid inside exactly yeah that's what my play is all about about the scary

monster and this idea that i have been projecting all the things that have been happened to me from my own body and this is your way of purging that so what what happened with the ABC deal? So ABC, I met with them, I met with them, I met with them and then I was like, I'm not coming here anymore. They don't get me. Right.

And it was a big risk because I didn't have any money. Yeah. And I remember when I, but I walked out of there and they were like, we know Sue, you're a badass.

If we don't get on the Sue Costello bandwagon, it's gonna take off or whatever. And I'm like, whatever. And I leave and this big,

huge wave comes over my body and it goes, well, that wasn't very feminine. If I went along with what they were trying to do, which was make me into what they wanted me to be, that would have been feminine to me. That's how I've been socialized.

Were they women? Mm-hmm. So you thought like I should believe them. That's what their idea was, that you should just go along with it. Who am I to say no? To a bunch of powerful ladies. There we go.

Yeah. There we go. Right there. I want to say that very slowly. Okay. Who am I to say no? And you got to get rid of that question. It just hit me so deeply.

Like the same thing with men touching you. The same thing. It's so ingrained into our brain. Who am I to say no? And this people pleasing and this caretaking men and all this stuff that socialized into us. So in a way, I was still doing the dance. Like, I'm going to tell you not to treat me that way, but then I want you to take care of me. That's the other thing.

Men are supposed to take care of you, which is making me laugh so hard. I'm like, men can't even tie their fucking shoes and we're like abdicating our power to them like that and the reason why everybody's so mad is because they have built their their careers on our backs men have built their careers on our back so everybody's like screaming at the men like you can't do it anymore i'm like well they don't have a plan b that's all they know like you gotta we gotta talk through it we gotta figure out a solution not right because they're getting more mad patriarchy's a motherfucker they're getting more mad literally literally a motherfucker so i leave abc and i say that wasn't very feminine and i go well i better pay attention to that because if i never had left abc i would have continued in the repetition of thinking that that's feminine yeah yeah so then last summer

and then ifc saw me on stage and they were like oh my god oh my god oh my god i never saw a woman on stage talk about what it's like to be a woman without being angry. And so I started realizing, I'm like, the reason why I'm not angry is because I processed it all before this all started happening. So I'm not getting re-triggered by what's going on. That's the wisdom of age thing. Yes, and also of, I don't know,

because age, sometimes if you don't grow, can collapse on you. Doing the work. Yeah, yeah, can collapse on you. Well, I just always knew I wasn't going to settle even though I didn't know what was going to come of it. I didn't want to settle

and I knew it was going to be painful and I knew I was going to act out and I'd make mistakes and I'm like, but isn't that living? Yeah, yeah, sure, of course. So I went against everything that everybody was trying to do

which was put us in a box. Yeah. And I went through that whole hard time. I went through what the world's and everything. Yeah, what this world's going through, I went through that personally. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I was concerned. the world's and everything. Yeah, what this world's going through. I went through that personally.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I was concerned. There was no need to be concerned whatsoever because and the other thing

I want to, okay, so the other thing that they, so they wrote on the WTF that I did, they wrote,

she's a cunt. Yeah, don't read that. No, I need to tell you, I need to say this. So they said, she's a cunt.

She should be thankful for the old lady and the therapist that were helping her. And yesterday when I listened to it, the old lady- You mean on the comment board we used to have? Yes, and so the old lady- It's not there anymore.

Go ahead. The old lady and the therapist, I told the story of how the therapist and the old lady were trying to take advantage of me financially. And they said, what a cunt. She should be grateful that they were helping her. And now looking back, I'm like'm like oh isn't that interesting i was speaking up for taking care of myself financially and i

got called the cunt that is what happens in the world yeah all the time and then i researched the history of the word cunt how was that initially it was just a just like vagina it was just a word for a private part yeah and then shakespeare made it crude but not derogatory but then during suffrage is when they use it as a derogatory so that's what they're trying so that's what so when so i'm like stuck that's when it's stuck so yeah so they use that to try to do that and i'm like whatever i don't care what you call me i don't care you can tell me i'm great you can say i don't care what you call me. I don't care. You can tell me I'm great. You can say, I don't care. But I will walk away if you talk poorly to me. But it's not going to affect me because I walk away.

So anyway, so they do the ABC. I leave ABC. So then last summer, IFC's like, I never saw that. And I'm like, okay, something's happening. Something's happening with what I'm doing. I remember Colin Quinn saying to me a long time ago about when I did this joke on stage about how we're ruining the men. We're turning them into women.

And Colin's like, keep going with that. So I've added it all up. And I'm like, this is what's becoming me. I am Sue Costello. So last summer, all of a sudden, I was sitting at my desk. And there's been so many. You want to talk about, I don't care what you call it. I don't care if you call it God.

I don't care if you call it love. I don't care if you call it the force. It will guide you if you let it. And it's very quiet. And it's not loud. Loud is ego. Love is quiet. And I keep thinking they have books about people saying when they die, it's all about love. And everybody's like, what does it mean? What does love mean? It doesn't mean this childish, like everything's going to be awesome love. It means exerting like the book the road less traveled says love is an exertion love is non-attachment they even do it in weddings but does anybody ever listen it's like it really

means like you go the extra mile it doesn't mean you let people treat you like shit it means you go a little further you just go and that's what i'm trying to do i'm trying to i am i'm not trying i'm going a little further to see if maybe i can affect some change so i was sitting at my i was like what should i do what should i do they want me to do a talk show i don't know and then i it just came the voice came to me go to less moon best cbs cbs the big guy the big guy the guy who first gave you the deal yes and the reason why I wanted to go to him. Like, life can be very simple, and it's all about not,

and your intention, you're not judged on your intentions, but the intention behind your action is what causes your effect. So I wanted to go back to him because he was the one that helped me first, because that's who I am. So you want to talk about purity, so I just email him.

I say, Les, will you meet with me he goes sure i flew myself to la i didn't even have money for a flight ticket back that's how much faith i had and what happened i fly to la where'd you go where'd you meet in his office and i sat down and i told him what was going i went for advice because i was like they want me to do a talk show and i don't know if i should do another sitcom but i'm ready to do something because i definitely have my point of view and i'm you know if I should do another sitcom but I'm ready to do something because I definitely have my point of view and I'm,

you know, I have the experience, everything. And so, he was like, you have to do a sitcom. And so then we were sitting there talking in his office

and then all of a sudden at one point he was like, you're a really good person. And I was like, I mean, yeah, I don't want to be greedy. My whole life,

I've always said this, even when I had my TV show the first time, I'm like, I don't want a plane. I don't want to, I want people to love've always said this even when I have my TV show the first time I'm like I don't want a plane I don't want to I want people to love each other that's what my mission in life is so then all of a sudden

in the room it was amazing because it turned it went from almost like and everybody kept saying to me who are you going to meet with God that's amazing

going to meet with God and I kept saying he's not my God God's my God and then I thought isn't that interesting that's what a lot of people, a lot of,

have this vision of this like white male God and then I'm like, what is this image of what we have to be this God, right? This powerful person. So I was like,

and the reason why he gave me my deal is because I always treated him regular. So I'm sitting in his office, he asked me how I've been making a living, which at the time

I didn't realize wasn't a good question. Yeah. And so I purposely, purposely said to me how I'd been making a living, which at the time I didn't realize wasn't a good question. Yeah. And so I purposely, purposely said to him, I've been broke. Most people would never say that because you're afraid, A, that you'll be embarrassed or B, that they'll take advantage of you. And I consciously said, let's see what he does with that information. And it was so amazing because in the room, it went from me meeting him to him almost like trying to get me to work with him. And then he stood up and his whole body shook and he was like, I think you're ready for what's about to happen to you.

So what's the deal? Executive producer, star of my own TV show. That's great. And so then they flew me out there. I pitched the idea. And at one point they told me, we don't know who's going to write it because you're just the actress.

I said no. And then they kept like, so what I'm realizing is what's always happened to me is so I have this power. I have this, I'm funny. I can act. I can write.

And what they do is they try to, like we started talking, like grind you down so that they can, and that's what they talk about when somebody's abusing you. That's what they do is they try to like we started talking like grind you down so that they can and that's what they talk about when somebody's abusing you it's what that's what they talk about they when somebody's abusing you they want you to fulfill all their needs without any reverence for what the subject's needs are and also they they they never really understand what you do and they've got a system in place so they the system is that's what i'm so so what i did was i got the system out of my body and i went back into the system so the system is that's what i'm so so what i did was i got the system out of

my body and i went back into the system so the system doesn't affect me i get it yeah you don't give a fuck and i fucking lived with an old lady not only that i made the show about that so then so i went through this whole process with them not only that so so i had this woman who was a intellectual property attorney she's like i because they said i was gonna they were flying me out there and they were like uh we need you to sign something and i'm like okay and then they said they didn't want me to sign something the intellectual property lady said no way so you're not going out there without something signed take this nda yeah and she goes bring your slingshot because you're about to go slay goliath and i'm not just so i went to the cbs in

new york first and i told the woman said, it's all about to crumble. Anything that's not built on a spiritual foundation is about to crumble. Everything has to be done with transparency now. This deal has to be done fairly. It has to be done fairly because it's not going to work anymore. And two weeks later, the Harvey Weinstein thing broke. So the Harvey Weinstein thing broke. Now I'm on a plane going to L.A. to sit in front of these suits while this Harvey Weinstein.

The energy was insane. It was so intense. And so I get there and they say, all right, so tell us your idea. And I took out the NDA and they did not like it. They did not like it. They were like, we don't sign an NDA. We don't do that.

We don't do that. And then a whole lot more went on, but they did sign it. And then I ended up doing research with all the attorneys and how much they were just told. I mean, I couldn't believe it. I was like, okay, we're in the middle of this Me Too thing. You'd think that they would be holding their act together now. No, it was worse.

The attorneys, like some of them, like one guy, he's a huge attorney, cornered me in his office, physically cornered me in his office physically cornered me in his office because he wanted me to sign a contract signing away all my rights because they see what i have on my hands and and what happens cornering you in in anger not in it almost not even in anger in frustration this is what i was able to be pragmatic about too because i was like oh he was so mad and frustrated that i wasn't doing what he wanted me to do that he physically he lost his his sense of any reality that I could sue him that he's a lawyer that that we're in the middle of this whole and that I'm Sue Costello and I have a big mouth

but so he stood and then I did and I was so so this is what I mean about not becoming what they do to you. Yeah. I picked up my bag and I looked at him and I said, can you step aside because I need to leave the room? And his whole body crumbled because he was woken up from that scary monster mode and he was like, what did I just fucking do? What did I just do? And he chased me out of the. He said that? Yeah.

And then he chased me out of the place and I was like, and yes, could I have sued him? Could I have done? Yeah, but I don't want to do that. I want to get a TV show made. I want to do business, and I want to make money. So that's all I kept focusing on. Because I could have went down the rabbit hole with all this stuff, and I didn't.

If I get angry, then the thing that they want me to do, the TV show, is gone. Exactly. So it doesn't even logically make sense. You're like, why would you want to make somebody that you need their essence to make you money? And the cool thing about CBS is I went to them, first of all, because I wanted to go back to Les, but also the whole time they were doing all this to me.

So then finally, I was just like, why don't I just fucking write the script? Two weeks, I wrote the script, and I took everything that they did to me, and I put it in the script. So now I have a show about what goes on between men and women in suits and a sitcom that's hilarious about everything that happened. But I'm going to negotiate. I mean, my dad was a labor mediator. men and women in suits and a sitcom that's hilarious about everything that happened but i'm gonna negotiate i mean my dad was a labor mediator and the cool thing about it so i transcended everything with my dad so now i can transcend it i'm getting the help from my dad

because i don't have all this anger towards my dad anymore and he's helping me through this whole thing like when the guy pushed me in his office he got so mad i go dad don't be my dad be help me with the negotiations then he's like oh oh i get, oh, oh, I get what you're doing. Oh, I get what you're doing. He goes, you don't need me. He goes, you just need me to tell you to keep going. And the last time I was home, he's like, Sue, you're the best negotiator I've ever met in my whole life.

And I'm like, look at that. So if I can get the respect from my dad, and then I'm like, okay, so my dad doesn't know what it's like to be a woman. So why would I expect him to know? My dad doesn't know that when he puffs up and acts scary that he scares me unless I tell him so we've been in this mode of like they puff up and act scary and I don't tell them and then this abuse

this abuse of power is existing because it's set up that way it's almost breeding it so I'm like well why don't I just try to do something different and I've done it with my dad my dad's puffed up and I've been like dad what it sounds like you're doing is this and then he turns into like a German shepherd puppy dog and he's like,

no, I just felt like I let you down. And I'm like, oh my God, do you know how many years it took me to be able to have the words to just say it feels like this? And then he feels free because he's not meaning to do what he's doing

and I'm not saying that I'm defending the men's behavior but somebody's got to do something to fix some of this and even guys now, they're like, I don't even know what creepy is. And I'm like, oh, they really don't know what creepy is. No, they need help. Yes. Yeah.

And so I created this show that's going to help all of us, not just... Well, good. I'm thrilled. It sounds great. So this is happening. You're doing your one person show. I'm doing the play. I'm going to keep going with the play.

So I got the play. I got the... And then this documentarian came and they wanted to shoot a documentary about the play, about show. I'm doing the play. I'm going to keep going with the play. So I got the play. I got the, and then this documentarian came and they wanted to shoot a documentary about the play, about everything that I'm doing. So where, how can people find you doing standup? Doing standup.

I just headlined Vegas and Reno, uh, suecostello.com. Good. Yeah. It's nice seeing you. It's nice seeing you too. Thanks Sue.

Thank you. It's nice seeing you too. Thanks Sue. Thank you. As I mentioned, you can just go to suecostello.com for everything you need to know. You can go to her GoFundMe

at gofundme.com slash I am Sue Costello. But try to find Sue. It's always invigorating. Yes. Uplifting. I also wanted to mention that a friend of the show and an old buddy of mine who I've known for a million years, Jimmy Tingle, I just read an article that he's running for office. I didn't even know it was happening.

But my old buddy, Jimmy Tingle, is running for lieutenant governor in Massachusetts. And that's a beautiful thing. He's always been concerned a beautiful thing he's always been you know concerned about politics he's always had a political voice and i just want to say uh you know fucking good for you jimmy you're walking the walk and it's beautiful congratulations best of luck so jim gaffigan uh he's been on the show actually several times it's always good to see jim we talked about some pretty heavy stuff uh but he's always funny he's got a new special it's called noble ape it's playing right now in select theaters yeah and you can also get it on itunes amazon and other digital platforms theaters

go see jimmy in a theater all right this is me and jim Gaffigan catching up. Jim. Yes, sir. You want to pull the mic into your face so I can know what you're doing? So we can hear it. How are you doing? I'm good. Yeah?

I'm good. So you're out running around doing the thing? Running around. What is this, like the 19th special? No, this is the sixth hour. Sixth. I mean, well, we all did those,? No, this is the sixth hour. Sixth. I mean, well, we all did those, you know, there's the Comedy Central ones, right? I didn't do an hour for them.

I never did. I've done four specials. I've done one for Netflix, one for Epix, and another for Netflix. And then the rest were CDs and then a half hour special, but I've only done three, though they were 70 minutes and one of them was 90 minutes. Yeah. What's yours coming in at? This one I think is like 72.

That's about right. Yeah. But this one's called Noble Ape. Noble Ape. And so I haven't talked to you in a while. I ran into Adam Goldberg. Yeah. And we went out to um he came out with us

fourth of july we have a yearly uh couple's date on the fourth of july we go to a party yeah the me and sarah and roxanne and uh the uh what's it what's the little kid's name bud bud bud the kid bud the kid and adam best name bud goldberg right it's the best it's the best name it's a great guy he's a great kid he's a good kid but i i just had no idea what like the last time i talked to you i have no idea what's happened i don't know what happened to the television show i didn't know about genie sickness yeah i didn't know like uh what you've been doing like have you had three more kids since i've seen you uh still just five okay so how did what happened with the show on tv land well what happened with the show is uh genie and i were executive producing yeah and writing

yeah uh and genie was directing yeah and we have five young children and frankly it was, it was a blast and everything, but it was also- Insane. Insane. It's just, well, you've been there. Not with five kids, but I can't imagine that part. It's an insane balancing act. Right. And it's one thing to have one parent working full time, but to have two gone for sometimes 16 hours a day it's just it's just

irresponsible right and so for me it was an easy emotionally negligent it was a it was an easy decision almost child abuse yes well you know also we would you know of course you're not working absolutely every single day but on those days off yeah I just wouldn't get out of bed, but she would be out doing things with the kids. And so it was a pretty easy decision for me, but for her, it was rather difficult because she was directing, she was executive. It was like she was the mama bear. It was like- Right.

On both fronts, with the family and with the show. And so it was a hard decision for her yeah but in the end uh a pretty simple one because uh in the end you you know you don't want to suck at parenting i mean right so inevitably everyone fails but like right but it was your it was your decision pretty much it was i mean the two of you yes yes yeah they would they would have done more i think they you know who knows there there's probably some iteration because there was the balancing act of like there was some discussion they wanted to go to like 22 episodes you know i mean which would have been insanity yeah totally um but yeah i don't, it's like, I don't even know if TV land is still called

TV land. Right. No, I know. It's hard to know. And it was, but that show was unique in that we were, and you know, this doing a semi autobiographic show. Yeah. But you, you know, imagine doing a semi autobiographic show where your uh your significant your partner is also

portrayed so it's not just you like i don't care if i'm portrayed as a schlub but you're playing you i'm playing me yes and someone else is paying playing her so it was it was very complex yeah and then you had a few fake kids fake kids but my kids would slide in here and there oh with yeah so that so that ended and then you just you just went right back into writing stand-up? It was a piece of joy working on stand-up and not writing episodes and rewriting episodes. And worrying about a crew and everything else. Yeah. And, but, yeah.

And, you know, I got some acting roles in films, and it was great. And then last April was discovered Jeannie had this huge brain tumor, the size of a pear at the base of her skull, like right where all the cranial nerves. God. And so- Were there symptoms? I mean, how'd she find out? What happened to make her realize?

Well, she was at the pediatrician. She, you know, I was probably out of town. She brought in all five kids to the pediatrician. We have this amazing pediatrician. And the pediatrician, she said, she was talking to Jeannie. She goes, you're favoring one ear. And Jeannie's like, oh, I can't hear out of this one. And the pediatrician's like, that's not normal. And she goes,

I just assumed it's exhaustion, you know, five kids. And so the pediatrician sent her to an ear, nose and throat person. And that ENT, you know, like for a month, there were like these hearing exercises that she was doing. And then was like you know uh you know it sounds paranoid but i think we should do an mri so they did an mri and then they found this huge mass oh my god and it was crazy dude it was crazy terrifying absolutely terrifying oh man so what what was the what was the prognosis what had to happen happen? So it was just an immediate case of find out a plan, determine a plan. And I think Jeannie's in the process of writing a book about it, but you immediately go into, there's an amazing calmness that comes over. I mean, everyone listening to this has had a family emergency like this.

And you just try and make the best next decision well you know what how do you handle it with the kids well we the the older ones we told them how old are they they were uh they're 14 and 12 now so they're probably 13 and 11 yeah and the younger ones we, Mommy's got to go in the hospital for a procedure. Yeah. You know, and so, but it was surreal. You know, it was like a good, you know, good month where I thought she was going to die. It was just like, it was pretty obvious that it was not looking good. From what the doctors were saying? Well, the doctors are always, they're diplomatic. It's very interesting observing doctors because they are, in a way, they have to be diplomatic.

They can't be, they can't embrace, they can't be you and I. They can't be the cynic and go, it's all going to fail. Yeah, it's over, pal. They have to be. Take her home. gonna fail yeah it's over pal they have to be take her home you know because one of the first questions you know genie asked was uh am i gonna die and the doctor's like i don't think so and you're like all right so then i'm turning around and spinning that to my children your mom's not gonna die but here's what's gonna happen right and so but the reality is, is that, you know, a huge mass around the brainstem is not good.

Like all these cranial nerves that control everything from swallowing to a blinking of an eye, facial slouch, highly likely was all there. We didn't know if the tumor was benign or not. So we're going into this and there was just complications beforehand. You know, like they have to, I mean, the technology is insane. They build a map of the brain through MRIs and then, you know, they go in and there's, you know, this team of surgeons and one of them's on this nerve that controls the ability to breathe, you know, like how the brain. Just a guy for that.

There's just a person on that. Wow. And so, and so we, you know, we got lucky because some of the material of the tumor was sticky. I remember the surgeon saying it was a sticky material. Therefore, they could pull it away from the cranial nerves. But it's, you know, some of it is, you know, it was a blur. You know, I'm existing in this blur.

I'm trying to organize. How many surgeries? She had two, one to cauterize it, meaning cutting off the blood supply. And then another one. And then she's had a surgery, you know, because half of her, she had paralysis in the vocal cord. So, like, she can speak, but she had a feeding tube. She had a tracheotomy. She had the whole shebang.

And she couldn't speak. She couldn't eat for, I want to say, it felt like a year, but probably a month. Can you imagine, like, being married to a glutton like me and not being able to eat so she had to be fed through a tube and like when we would have dinner we'd have to close all these doors so that there was no scent of food going into the room and then i found myself you know she was like why did you have to do that because if you can't eat if you can't swallow you don't want to hear you don't want to smell you know some burgers being fried so but did they get so they she went through two major surgeries cartarizing and removal yes and they got it all out yes and it was malignant benign it was benign

oh my god but then now she comes out of that and then she's got this paralysis and and the throat problem and and so there's just you know know, medical science is just, I can't even contemplate it. It's just, so then they did some, you know, she had severe pneumonia after the surgery. That's dangerous. Yeah. Particularly, you know, essentially she aspirated. The ability to swallow one of the cranial nerves was damaged. So she was breathing, but because she didn't have this instinctive nerve to swallow, all the liquid was going in her lungs.

So therefore she got pneumonia. And then when you get pneumonia in a hospital, it's really bad because there's a lot of nasty germs floating around. And so there was a lot of touch and go moments. And you were able to sort of stay strong and present? Yeah, I mean, I tried my best. that she had uh you know someone always in the hospital and also making sure that my five kids that there was some continuity of uh familiar face you know genie's family really showed up yeah uh you know they helped we did kind of like rounds like i have all these things that i scheduled and genie really resents it but there would be like shifts of being at the hospital

with genie and including overnight because you need an advocate in a hospital right and then um there were also making sure that uh you know my kids would wake up and see a familiar face that was preferably a relative i mean it was you know we're very lucky that you know genie's one of nine kids so it's like there were moments where you're like oh oh, this is why you have nine kids. So all the aunts and uncles were there? Yeah. That's amazing. And New York.

It was all happening in New York. What hospital? Mount Sinai. Oh, yeah. They were a good cancer hospital, right? I mean, the neuroscience division. It's just amazing. So now where is she at now in terms of how

is she uh what what what are the physical liabilities as it stands now well you know she uh you know she's probably at 80 of her normal energy um if she was sitting here you might since you knew her or you know her yeah she might sound a little different but not that much different not like people will meet her and then they'll find out she had a brain tumor and they'll be shocked but uh she has a partial paralysis uh in her uh vocal cords but there was a surgery that made it so that she sounds normal. In the swallowing? Yeah, in the swallowing. It's pretty much there.

I mean, she has to, like, she's not eating salad. Certain things are very hard to swallow. But, you know, like when we were, you know, like for our anniversary last year, we went out and we had a bunch of soups. Yeah. You know, that was like our first time out. That's nice.

Yeah. Nothing wrong with soup's nice yeah nothing wrong with soup no nothing wrong with soup is that you gotta i mean it is july 26 so finding a restaurant that serves soup they're like what how is there a 10 minute bit on soup and then no there's no soup but there is some jello jokes okay you know me so well they're like i bet you did some soup jokes got me a couple soup bits that sounds sounds like the kernel of the soup chunk. Yes, right? But you guys are okay?

She's okay? And the kids must be thrilled and you must be relieved? I mean, I thought for sure that there was a couple weeks there where I was like, well, all right, I had a fun run, but I'm not going to outsource this parenting if it's just me. I'll just be a mediocre dad with too many kids. Did you find, like, when you were fragile around this stuff, who'd you turn to? Like, you must have broke down a couple times. Well, you know, the weird thing is, is like...

But you're Midwestern. You know, the thing is, is like, I remember the day of the surgery, I had a friend show up at the hospital and I was like, you know, and he was like, you got to talk to someone about this. I'm like, I don't, you know, I, yeah, I'm nervous. You know what I mean? I, you know, I'm not good at processing things like that. Yeah.

I, but I'm good at, like, I knew what i needed to do right and it wasn't that's the most important i guess i didn't think that it was um uh functional to be like i'm so nervous that i'm losing my life partner you know i mean it wasn't like something that i was and luckily i never had to get in that position but i was very very much kind of like, all right, I got to make sure that my kids that have afterschool programs and are picked up. It's all practical, all about, you know, dealing with the situation, not worrying about yourself. I'm just wondering that if you got to a point where you're like, I can't take it, I can't take it.

But you didn't, you just walked in. Luckily, Jeannie's family was there. And so it wasn't lonely. Right. It wasn't lonely because I would be talking to somebody whose sister was in peril or whose daughter was in peril. Right. And surrounded by family of different kinds. Well, good, man.

And there's always food. There's always food there. Which is good for you. Which helps me. Everyone's bringing food. Food. Plenty of food. Bringing food. Eating food yeah there's always food which is good for you which helps me everyone's bringing food plenty of food bringing food eating food a lot of food yeah good well i'm glad that got you through it so the new the new uh special and the album thank you for bringing me the vinyl i do like vinyl is uh how much of uh how much of it is dealing with some of the stuff that you went

through i would say the first 20 minutes is about it and if you open it up yeah that's it's so interesting that the uh vinyl it's so important now no no you're it's not just you people love it i know like i don't think it makes a million dollars if you have it but people the people that like vinyl like to have it well you know it's interesting they include the download yeah exactly all the records have the so it's just uh and it's a beautiful uh design there yes van gogh so yeah so it's like 20 uh i would say you know the first 20 minutes are about that experience and uh you know it's it was kind of cathartic to you know sure dude and because it's something like you said earlier like one way or another eventually or already people have dealt with this and and that's what i found when i started touring with the material was i was like why is this resonating i was like of course it resonates everyone's been there with a mother a father or a loved one you know yeah yeah i

unfortunately i have not yet but i i i hear about it yeah i got my dad and his wife here now they just went over the hotel and you know he's he's going to be 80 this year yeah and like i just went on a we went on this little hike and i just there's that moment where you if you don't see your folks enough like where i see him trying to get up this hill which isn't even really a hill and And I'm like, oh, no, it's happening. Yeah. He's fucking 80. I think it's really interesting how human beings, we can't live because we all experience it.

And we can't live in that reality for too long. Like we have to like get out. Right. Because we can't live in the reality. I mean, Adam adam goldberg kind of who i love lives in that sincerity of that the mortality yes i think so but most of us most of us can't no we shouldn't my dad's more like adam which is a drag you know because he's he's he doesn't do enough and doesn't get out much he doesn't like enough things and he just sits

and he just thinks about uh you know staying alive even though he's not having a very good time. Yeah. He's miserable, but he wants it to keep going. Yeah. I mean, I think it's fun to live in this denial. I mean, I think that you'll see someone in the news that's passed away. And typically, most people have the reaction uh thank god that's never going to happen to me yeah or not yeah yeah no it's horrible but uh but yeah but no but also

like you know you've surrounded yourself you have all these wonderful kids and then you know you're in in a situation like this i imagine you're really dealing with what life is you know in both realms like you know coming and going and you know tragedy and and you know, in both realms. Yeah. Like, you know, coming and going and, you know, tragedy and, you know, and hope and everything, you know, but you see them growing. And, like, you've got a whole world of life around you. Yeah. And this was one of those things where it's sort of like, well, this was a scary reminder.

Let's go back to eating in Disneyland. Right. Or let's go and seize the moment and enjoy ourselves. Right. You know, like travel and see things that we want to do. And you're doing that? I'm trying to do that. Good.

So, well, tell me about the special in that. Like, I notice it's not Netflix, and that's rare. Yeah, it is rare, right? What did they, did you decide that, like, how come you're giving that guy a billion dollars and I'm getting, you know, a nickel? Was it that kind of thing? No, you know, it's it that kind of thing no you know it's it's i do have uh some specials on there yeah and i was presented uh different options from the the usual suspects that make offers yeah and one of them was netflix and one of them was

showtime and one of them was all these different things we're all all comedians we're all waiting for when's amazon and apple gonna get into this are you are we waiting for that i think they're i think they should get into it and one of the actual well amazon's already into production i don't think apple is but to to take to to have a an additional outlet for specials because but anyway so i was approached by you know brian folkwise you know uh these guys and he's like i'm doing this uh motto where it's a it's going to be available everywhere yeah on the same day you know not like a special and then maybe we can release an album six months later all on the same day it'll be on demand it'll be on iTunes. It'll be on Amazon. And I was like, all right.

You know, I mean, granted, he made a good offer, too. Yeah. But it's interesting to release a special. And you know this, having a Netflix special. Because, you know, when it's available to everyone, it's not confined to just the people that have Netflix. So there's a lot of people that are consuming it like i don't you mean when it's not on netflix when it's not on netflix it's fascinating to see people like apple you can go to itunes yeah go to whatever to see all these images because on

instagram people are sending me all these images of how they're consuming it and some people are in a theater some people are in uh you know it opened as a film it was in a couple theaters oh so not like it wasn't in theaters as like we're gonna make all this money in theaters i think it was kind of like everywhere you rent or buy or watch things right so and that was an experiment i think that was part of the deal that they came to me with and i was like all right i never really contemplated this being like eddie murphy's you know right uh theatrical release did a lot of people go see it in the theater i don't know i don't know i i don't know i know some people did i know that we went and did a screening because genie directed it and

there was there were people in there. Oh, yeah? Which was fun. So she's back at it? She directed it post-sequence? She directed it, yeah. Oh, that's great. Yeah. So the decision not to do Netflix was to have a wider market more immediately and also have a little more control over, I imagine, the promotion.

Because you don't know if something's going to get lost on Netflix or if it's going to get buried or if it's going to get seen. Yeah. And also I have specials on Netflix. No, I know. Yeah. And so it's, but yeah, some of it is like, I also feel like people, you know, consume it in different ways. And every year, every couple of years it changes.

Yeah. You know what I mean? It's like Comedy Central is the most important, you know, hbo special is unbelievable and it changes well yeah you know it's just like now it's just you want people to see it and you don't know how they're gonna see it and then you know and then it's about press reaction i guess it's i i don't know where people find time you're lucky if somebody makes the time right you know and it's sort of random you know there are people that love you and are gonna watch everything you do but then it's like you know there are people that love you and are going to watch everything you do but then it's like you know there are people that are just going to be like oh look at this there's a thing here right yeah you know and i don't know how that how it works yeah i mean i'm

a comedian who enjoys like consuming specials and i still haven't watched a lot of my friends specials like the last one i watched was chris rocks, which was great. Yeah. But that's been a while. I watched Maria Bamford's last one recently. Yeah. I'm sure it was great. Yeah. She's a genius. Yeah.

But, well, I will watch yours. Well, thank you. I'll at least listen to the record. There you go. That's a whole other different experience. So it's available everywhere at this point in time. Yeah. Noble Ape.

Yes. And you guys are good. We're good. Say hi to Jeannie for me. I will. And it's strange. You hit on her the first time we did the show matt do you remember we did the first show and i was like is is marin hitting on my wife while we do this podcast that wait that was at air america though wasn't it like way back it was the two that was like in new york one of the early

ones one of the early podcasts that was really early i got see what I did, maybe I misread something, because I'm pretty sure your wife was flirting with me. That's possible. That's possible. It's good to see you, man. I'm glad everything worked out. Thank you. There you go. Jim.

Jim Gaffigan. Great guy. Noble Ape is playing right now in theaters. I can't seem to get over that. And you can get it on iTunes, Amazon, and other digital platforms. No guitar today. It's hot out here, and I'm doing some work in the garage. I know it's heartbreaking, but you're just going to have to wait.

Boomer lives! We'll see you next time. Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know

we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising.

Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.