WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 940 - Chris O'Dowd

Episode Date: August 8, 2018

Chris O'Dowd charmed and amused audiences in things like Bridesmaids, The IT Crowd, and recently the Get Shorty TV series, but things could have gone differently if he had followed through on his political science major. Chris and Marc talk about growing up in the Irish countryside and heading of to university in Dublin, only to find out he enjoyed acting much more than studying politics. They also talk about Bono, the Native Irish vs the Boston Irish, and having cats but not being a "cat person." Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you what the fuckers?

What the fuck buddies? What the fucksters? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome to it. What's happening? How's it going? Are you okay? You know, it's interesting. I've been speaking to people specifically about like when I greet you, whether you're running or you're at the gym or you're painting or you're in trouble or I'm just kind of going through a list in my head of people. I've been doing that for a long time. And it's odd because a lot of people tell me that, like I get emails and they're like, sort of like, I'm painting, by the way, or, well, I got an email, okay, from a guy. The thing is, I just kind of scattershot that I

kind of connect in and think about it I've been doing that since I was on radio but I was a little more specific there was a long list of different types of people that I would say hi to but in terms of actually doing one side of a conversation which this always is and your relationship with me is specific it's personal and it's yours but sometimes when i reach out and just that kind of general greeting way and ask what's up i don't know how it lands but i got like i said i got one able to one email that said i was painting thank you for for saying hello and checking in but this is what makes it worthwhile. Without even knowing it, this is also talking about this podcast in general or however I resonate with people.

A lot of people connect with me in whatever way they're going to connect with me. Some people get mad at me. Some people find a tremendous amount of comfort in me. What's important is I got an email from a guy, this is from the other day, on Monday when I was speaking specifically about drugs and about recovery and about people i was talking directly to people who may be in that

situation and i'm just winging it folks you know this is just improvised stuff i do here at the beginning of the show but this email uh subject line intro really hit me you're right mark it doesn't get any better it's the same shit up all night work all day repeat doesn't age well 6 a.m comes quick i know one day at a time because that's all one really can do thanks for the truth i needed to hear from someone who didn't know me now i don't know what that guy's exact life is but uh if i can deliver a message to get people out of that cycle that fucking addiction cycle especially if it's one that's damaging your life yeah i'm i'm happy to do it because i don't know man i've been dry you know that's a that's the word they use in the

recovery racket i've been dry and some of you have noticed it and you know i've noticed it but uh but i'm i'm on it i on it. I went to a thing. All right. I went to a thing last night. I've been a little distant from the things. And sometimes all you got to do is check in with the secret society and, you know, get reconfigured a little bit. Reprioritize. Understand where you came from and, you know, what that looked like.

But it's hard to know with the dry thing where, you know, everything's going all right, yet you're snotty and short and angry and resentful. It's sort of like, why is any of that stuff happening? Why do I have any of that? Why am I talking in this sort of manic, aggressive tone sometimes? And it's easy to think like, well, I'm just at the end of my rope today or it's been a rough week. I am busy. And it's easy to think like, well, I'm just at the end of my rope today or it's been a rough week. I am busy.

There's always planes coming in for landing in my brain and projects that need to be done. I don't know when you'll hear it, but today in a couple hours, I have to go interview Paul McCartney in a tight sort of situation live for an in-house Capitol Records thing. And yeah, I mean, we're're gonna put it up as a podcast eventually but yeah for a week or so i've just been making myself crazy about interviewing a beetle maybe i'll talk more about it when i when i present the show that that it is but but that's stressful but but the dry thing the dry thing is real and uh you got to get on that, especially if you're a person that your brain just does that naturally. If you don't have a sort of resource or support system to pull you out of that lockup. You know, there's sort of an aggravated lockup that happens. Do a lot of damage, man.

Can hurt some people, hurt yourself. Before I forget to mention the the lovely and charming chris o'dowd is on the show today what a great guy fun talk coming up all right i've been making music you know i've been working with tall wilkenfeld the bass player the genius who i was on a show with with dean delray comedy kind of rock show and she was she played bass was pretty amazing she plays with Jeff Beck man well we're trying to lay down a track for the credit sequence of the new Lynn Shelton movie that I'm in and uh and they're using Lynn is using a lot of the guitar work I do on

this show at the end if you listen to it throughout the movie so now we're actually doing a a studio track with tall so i'm learning all kinds of new things a little frustrating new skills it's not just the immediate relief sloppy guitar playing you you know there's a process that has to be abided by in the studio and it kind of it's kind of exciting you can just do over things and drop things in i'm a strong believer in the playthrough let's just play it live and in the moment but my sense of rhythm is not great. Click track doesn't hurt. And just doing the leads over and over again.

I'm starting to understand the world of the studio a very little bit. A very little bit, but it's very exciting. So that's sort of creative change in a good way. But I did want to share an email if I could. So this is an interesting email because it just came in the inbox out of nowhere. And I would imagine most of it is true. But this is where, at least in this area,

I think in what's going to be talked about in this email, I've made some progress. Subject line, Time Warner Cable. Hi, Mark. I've been listening to your podcast for the past eight years and I'm a big fan. It's always a treat to invite you into my headspace for your comedy candor and ability to connect with those you interview. I'm from Canada, specifically a small town called Sudbury.

In the early 2000s, there was a boom in call center jobs because the Canadian dollar wasn't faring as well as its American counterpart. The largest company was called Teletech, it provided customer service for Time Warner, LA. These were terrible jobs and most people would fleece to the place for the three weeks of training and quit before they ever had to take a call. This was my initial plan as a young person. I was in my post-college dropout slump and needed money for smokes and food as the coffers were dangerously low. After crunching the numbers, it looked like I needed to work a week on the phones to facilitate my introverted pauper life for the next few months. So I bit the bullet, did the training, and tried my best to help people with the limited tools

available. Mostly, I would make people unhappy for eight hours because nothing worked and technicians were often no-shows. I've managed to block most of the experiences during that week, save one conversation, and that was only because of your Time Warner episode on Marin. Here we go. Now we're in it. I remember doing my intro and being greeted by an exasperated, angry man who venomously introduced himself as Mark Marin. This was ordinary given how long people had to wait on hold. However, what was out of the ordinary was your history. Whenever you call one of these places, a conversation summary is written and available for the next

employee and you had dozens of summaries listing you were vicious, flabbergasted, mean, etc. So I buckled up and I asked how I could help. When you said your internet was down, I put you through the motions. Did you try turning it off and on again? And let me send a signal to your modem. And of course, none of this worked. In the week I worked for Time Warner, the troubleshooting worked maybe 10% of the time, and I would be surprised and happy when it did. Anyhow, much grumbling ensued and it of course did not work and I said that we needed to send a technician. At this point, you ripped into me with fury and naked disdain. In a job where I was regularly yelled at, it must be said that you were particularly good at it. You made mention of starting your own functioning internet company and suing me and time warner into the ground

because people shouldn't be treated this way i sighed and said this sounded most acceptable you then asked what the fuck was wrong with me i apologized and once again suggested when a good time would be to schedule technician as it was all i could do you then pulled the do you know who i am mark maron i got nervous hesitated and let outtering, uh, because I didn't know at the time. Dude, let me just tell you, nobody did. But anyways, this broke your anger, and in the calmest, most resigned voice, you said, that's all right. And you apologized profusely. You said you knew it wasn't my fault, and it was wrong of you to take your frustration out of me. I assured you that getting yelled at was par for the course in my position and I had no ill will and apologize for your internet not working. It

was one of the nicer exchanges I had during my time on the phones, going through the emotional gamut and reaching mutual defeat in a perhaps imagined form of solidarity. I quit not long after and breathe a sigh of relief. It was about 15 years later and it's odd that working a shitty call center job has awarded me a fond memory of interacting with my favorite podcaster. It's a strange and beautiful world, and luckily, I now have a job where I don't make strangers sad. I hope your internet is running smoothly these days. Thanks for your time, Matt. Well, Matt, you know, it happened again.

That's what inspired that episode of Marin. But I'm surprised that I did the do you know who I am thing. But the rest of it sounds again. That's what inspired that episode of Marin. But I will have to, I'm surprised that I did the, do you know who I am thing, but the rest of it sounds right. And again, Matt, if you're listening, I apologize again,

but thank you for the walk down memory lane. Certainly. Thank you for that. Dry, right? Dry. What a sober acting fella do that. I don't know,

man. I just, I'm mad that i got a cold and i i'm very busy and i'm overwhelmed all the time but i i have to start realizing that this is fun this is good this is the good stuff this is what we this is what we this is what we live for and i made chris o'dowd is on the show today, and he's a great guy. We had a great conversation. I'm very happy when I'm talking to people. It's like in between things, those hours or two where I'm just festering. You know, when you work a lot or when you're overly busy and you start to run out of any time for yourself or in your mind or in life, you start to fucking tweak a little bit. you know you start to fucking tweak a little bit you start to it's like uh you know you it's it's almost like there's no room in your brain and you're just thrashing up against that by dumping

it on other people but uh if you're concerned i'm getting on top of it so don't don't be i'm okay okay so odowed great guy nicest guy funny guy charming guy very Funny guy. Charming guy. Very talented actor. It was a pleasure. Truly fun to hang out with him. Season 2 of Get Shorty returns to Epix on Sunday, August 12th. And this is him and I just talking about stuff. And I like Irish. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice?

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Product availability varies by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley construction.

Punch your ticket to kids night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 PM in rock city at Toronto rock.com. People. Have you still got a lot of cats? Yeah. There's three cats in there, in the house. Is that a lot? No, I think that's a reasonable amount.

Right? Yeah. I don't think that anybody would. They wouldn't fault me for three? No, I think any more than that, then there would be questions. The most I've ever had at one time was maybe four. Okay. But I did feed some cats outside.

Yeah, we have a cat. Yeah. One? Yes, it's a Siamese. Like a thoroughbred Siamese? Thoroughbred Siamese. Yeah. It's really quite awful.

Really? Yeah. Are you not a cat person? I think I've grown to accept it. Yeah. It very much came with my partner, with my wife. The cat came with her. So it's an old cat now?

It's 13, I think. So you've been with your wife how long? 10? No, that's not right. 8? 8? Let me think. Where are we at?

Well, how long have you been married? 5. Okay, so that's easy. Yeah. So you know that one. 8. It? Five. Okay, so that's easy. Yeah. So you know that one. Eight. It's eight. Yeah, so five.

Yes. Eight. A flipping hell. Is it six? I think it's six. I wouldn't let her listen to this. I'm starting to think that maybe you should make sure she doesn't hear this. If this was just a conversation we were having and she was sitting right there, from my experience,

not a great moment. You know, I feel pretty assured she will never listen to this. All I need to do is tell her that it's an interview that I'm on. Has she had enough? Is that what you're saying? She'll be like, yawn. Yeah. No thanks.

Yeah, I don't need to. Yeah, you know, they have to, the significant other partners of people that draw attention to themselves on purpose really have to carve out their own thing. That's fair. Yeah. What does she do? Is she in show business? She's a writer.

In show business? No, she's like a novelist. Oh, really? Yeah. So I don't think you'd call that show business. No. She's kind of a journalist. I knew her as a documentary maker on the BBC, And then she went more into prose and writing columns.

She's from England? She is. Well, she's from a place called Guernsey. Guernsey? Which is an island just off France, but is part of the United Kingdom. Just getting complicated. Is it like... It's very nice. It's like she's from Catalina. Oh, okay. So it's not like there's a different tribe of British people there. There's a different tax system.

Oh. And it was invaded during the war. The last time we were there, it was actually invaded. While you were there? No. I think I would have heard about that. Yeah. During the war on entertainment, it was invaded.

That war is going on in full force here. Yeah, we're winning. Yeah, I hope we're winning. I can't remember what side we're on. But it's not like Wales. It's not like Wales, no. I have no understanding of any of this. No, that's okay.

I just know that in Wales, it's a different world, kind of. There's an old language to it. Yes, that's true. And the names are spelled funny. Oh, very. There are a lot of kind of. There's an old language to it. Yes, that's true. And the names are spelled funny. Oh, very. There are a lot of L's. Yeah. So I just feel like

that's what I'm asking. Is it like that? They have this odd thing. People who are traditionally from Guernsey speak as if they're from South Africa. Oh, really?

It's a very strong accent. Very unusual. On purpose? They're like, we're doing that? It doesn't seem accidental. It seems more inherent. Oh, inherent.

But it's nice. Yeah. It's kind of nice to hear this very specific variation on a very old language. So now you have children, right? We do. You have one? I'm going to get this number correct. Oh, that's, I would hope.

We have two. We have a three-year-old, three-and-a-half-year-old, and he'll be actually one next week. Now, both these kids born in the States, do they speak with an accent? The one-year-old speaks not much, and the three-year-old, we definitely hear words. What was it? It felt like, oh, yes.

There was something he picked me up on the other day when i was referring to something as a palm tree yeah and uh and it felt like god this is not only annoying that he's correcting my pronunciation but that it's in reference to a palm tree he said palm you mean palm tree palm tree shut up american does like, shut up, American. Does he say third correctly? He uses all the H's in that word. He does? Yeah. And then there's words that we use differently, like trash and things like that, he'll say.

Oh, so he's got those? Yes. In Ireland, we don't call it trash. We call it useful. No, we call it rubbish. We call it rubbish. Yeah. I like rubbish. Yeah. I would get the kid call it rubbish. Yeah. I like rubbish.

Yeah. I would get the kid going with rubbish. Yeah. I feel like he's picking a lot of stuff up outside the house. Oh, really? He's three. How old? Are you just letting him out at night?

He runs a club night. He goes to daycare. He's like a cat. He comes back in the morning. He's an indoor-outdoor three-year-old. That's right. Yeah, he shits in his sandbox. Well, how long have you been here? I've been kind of coming over and back for the guts of a decade.

And then I came over properly maybe seven or eight years ago, which is I actually met my wife here, usually, at her 30th birthday party. How did that happen? I was coming over. I didn't know that many people. And a mutual friend of ours, it turns out, a guy called Nick Frost. I don't know if you're familiar with this. I know Nick Frost. I've interviewed Nick Frost.

Oh, you have? He's been in? A long time ago. He's a great guy. And I said, who do you know who's in town? And he said, oh, Dawn is in town. You should look her up. So I friend requested her on Facebook.

Yep, that's how it starts. And she turned it down three times. Three times. Which felt like unnecessary. Yeah, I mean, like you were just trying to meet some people that you might have common friends with. My Facebook picture is of a very old Floridian woman. And I think I had a fake name on Facebook also.

And that's the one you requested her friendship with? Which would have been difficult, I guess. Yeah, no, I don't blame her. And eventually she was throwing this party and she hadn't been in town that long and she was worried that nobody was going to turn up. So on the day of the party, she said, Hey, going why did you come to the party and the rest is history and then love blossomed it did uh-huh for real well for you know for a few weeks after that certainly oh

well that's nice yeah and then that's good but let's talk about ireland because i was just there and uh let's talk about the political structure, the history, the church. Let's do it all. Okay. I'm hoping that you're going to educate me. I have an unnatural love of the place. Yeah. Being an Eastern European Jew, I don't know what it's from.

It feels ancestral to me, but it's not. Like I go there and I'm like, this is where I would live if I had to run. it's not like i go there and i'm like this is this is where i would live if i had to run that's interesting yeah uh i find here's another thing that i i don't know if you've heard i know why would you have i spent a lot of years in boston being terrified of the irish and uh because the boston irish are a different thing unto themselves. They were intimidating, somewhat mean, I'm generalizing. Yes. But then I realized when the Irish came here, they really had to tough it out. That's right.

And they got tough. Because I go to Ireland and I see the same type of person the same guys that look like the irish i knew in boston and i'm i'm like oh my god here we go and they're very sweet people do you understand what what america did to the irish i think they're combined with that and i think that's true um i think also the tough ones left a lot you know know, like the ones... They were bad eggs on the way out. And you crack them. And they got tougher. Yes.

You scrambled these bastards and then they took to the streets and became cops and whatnot and that hardened them further. Cops and the opposite of cops. Very much so. And then we're mistreated and with the same racist practices that are happening all over the country now.

Yes. And we're downtrodden and that toughened them up. And the weather in Massachusetts is pretty rough. Yeah. That hardened them also. Yeah. I guess so. Yeah.

I've grown to like all of them. You know, it was like my own fear that was causing a very specific, my own type of judgment of the Irish. I think it's fair to say that it's a different brood to the people inside of Ireland. And I think that's true, to be honest, of all nations. I guess that's true. They come here and they get ruined.

Or travel. The people that travel. I find that when I meet Australians in London, I'm like, these are not like Australians in Australia. What's the difference? Like in Australia specifically, since you're noticing it. Because my sense of Australia is I'm wondering like where you're going with this. Just that I find that the ones that seem to end up in London,

and I'm sure they're lovely people, but they're definitely more boorish. Oh, so they've got a chip on them. What's frustrating about what just happened is I really searched for a very delicate adjective. And all I can remember was boorish. Oh, so they've got a chip on... What's frustrating about what just happened is I really searched for a very delicate adjective, and all I could find was boorish. Well, maybe they've got a chip on their shoulder for England having sent their families there to begin with.

Maybe that's it. They're coming back for what's owed them. At last. Exactly. Yeah. Thanks for shipping my great-great-great-great-grandfather off to that fucking island. And making him converse with Irish convicts. Yeah.

But I think it is true to say that Irish people are very different in either place. Irish people on the East Coast are very different to people in Ireland. Yeah, but most Americans are Irish. That's right. There are quite a number. But there's loads of you. Yeah. irish that's right there are quite a number but there's but there's loads of you yeah no that's true but it was just fascinating the number of irish in you know that aren't in ireland is profoundly impressive yeah and you i guess you could thank the church for

that there is and also you know not to like during the famine i'm glad it's we're probably six minutes in the famine's up when does it usually come up with you? I'm going to do a tight five on the famine now. No, during the famine, just to put it into context, there was 8 million people in the country before the famine. Five years later, there was 4 million people. Oh, my God. 2 million people died.

2 million people left. Right. Just in very broad numbers. Now, are you guys giving this on a note card when you leave ireland that's right you know the passport stamp yeah that's all it says on it that that equation eight minus two minus two good luck yeah um so that's that's quite a number of people to leave particularly in such a short amount of time right right, right. And I guess half of those ended up in, you know,

Arras Island. Yeah. And that was quite a number of people. Yeah. Now we're speculating. So let's go, so your family didn't leave. Right. And how far back do they go? Do you do that? Do you know

your lineage? You know, I did a show about genealogy at one point. You did a one-person show? No, I did a Christopher Guest show for HBO that was about... It's not the one where you got to... Because I was supposed to do a genealogy show, and they just never got back to me. No, this wasn't like, who do you think you are?

Oh, that's what I wanted to do. I'd like to do that, too, but mine would be boring. I think that's why they're not getting back to me. I did everything they told me to do. What did you do? Well, I took two genetic spit tests, and it's been almost a year, and I think they just looked at it, and they're like, we get it. He's a Jew, and that's it.

That's the end of it. It's Russia, Poland, all done. No story here. So, oddly, I just sent in my own 23andMe yesterday. Oh, you did? I got it a couple of days ago. You got yours? No, I bought the thing.

I haven't done it yet. Well, what are you anticipating you're going to find? You know what I wanted to do it for more than the genealogy part of it was, I heard on the 23andme thing you can find out stuff that's wrong with you no you can they they ask you are they ask you like twice when you go to the website they're like all right we can tell you about a few things alzheimer's parkinson's that's what i want and uh and the other thing yes uh and then you go okay i want to hear about it and they're like are you sure because this will fuck you up yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And okay. So on the genealogy side of it,

I feel like it's going to be very dull because there is a castle around 40 minutes from where I grew up and where my family's still there. Yeah. Called O'Dowd's Castle. Oh. And it's where the first O'Dowd's came from.

Do you all have access to the castle? It's a rune. Oh. It's a rune now. But it was... I guess that's a yes. Yes. Yes, especially late at night with cans of beer, we have access to it.

Nice. And it's from, I think, 800. So it's quite a while back. 800 AD. Yes. Right. 800 AD, which is quite a while back. 800 AD. Yes. Right. 800 AD, which is quite a while. And that's how far we've traveled in 1,100 years, 1,200 years.

A couple blocks. 40. 40 minutes. So the genealogy would be. Yeah, you guys really stayed, huh? It's really nice. Yeah. What's the town? I It's really nice. Yeah.

What's the town? I'm from Boyle. Okay. And where is that in relation to a city that I've heard of? I don't know. You may have heard of Galway. Yeah. So I'm like an hour and a half, nearly two hours.

Which way? Kind of northeast of Galway. Oh, so not by the water. I'm like half an hour from the water, yeah. Yeah. See, like I didn't get to go there. I've only been to Dublin and Kilkenny, you know, and I want- Kilkenny's nice. It's pretty.

Yeah. There's a castle there as well. That's right. Not in ruins. No, it's a lovely castle. Yeah, they take care of it. I guess the O'Dowds just didn't give a fuck about their castle. But the people of Kilkenny and whoever runs that-

You have a keen sense of Irish history. But the people of Kilkenny and whoever runs that joint. You have a keen sense of Irish history. I presume when the British came and said, we're going to take your castle, we decided, well, we don't give a fuck. We're out of here. Go for it, Cromwell. Yeah, knock it down.

We're heading for the hills. Not farther than 40 miles from here, though. We were terrified by the prospect of renovating anyway. Do your worst. Is that what happened? Yeah. Cromwell took it, though. We were terrified by the prospect of renovating anyway. Do your worst. Is that what happened? Yeah. Cromwell took it, yeah. I don't know.

It doesn't matter. Well, our country's only 200 and change, and I don't know the beginning of it. But I do appreciate that there are walls that old in Ireland. I really like that about Ireland, that you know, there's just things built that were built like a long, long, long time ago. So,

I do think though that something about your connection to the Irish people is probably about a shared history of suppression. Like,

as an Eastern European Jew, the Irish people, these are, you know, nations that have been suppressed and have managed to come out of it. I'm always,

this is going to be massively general, but I've always been impressed that one of the stalwarts of Jews in California or wherever is that they seem to have embraced humor and comedy so readily, which is incredible. Yeah, well, it was a way to get by. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Like, it was a way, I mean, you know what i mean like it was a way i mean lenny bruce i'll paraphrase this bit i gotta find it where he talked about just the pharaoh you know like bring in the jew he's charming you know like it like there there's like there i think there were a lot of things that were denied us because of being jewish and we had to sort of figure out a way to work around it you know uh. But, I mean, that goes way back. But, yeah, Jews were funny. You know, they did a few things when they got here. Yeah.

I didn't realize there were a lot of Jewish boxers, but I think- I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah, there were a lot of Jewish boxers in New York. A friend of mine did paintings on them. But I think that the, you know, you kind of get a sense of humor to deal with the plight, but also to get over on people. Uh-huh. Right?

Yes, that's right. Let's go talk to the Irish guy. That guy on people. Uh-huh. Right? Yes, that's right. Let's go talk to the Irish guy. That guy can tell a story. Sure. Right? Yeah. And also, I guess we both came up with our own barely tolerable cuisines to other people. Uh-huh.

That's really fair. Yeah. Yeah, we don't have a history of cuisine. Yeah, but there's great restaurants in Dublin. There are now, Dublin. I like... There are now, yeah. I like Irish food. Which ones?

Which foods? Yes. I mean, like, look... Name a couple. Well, no, I mean, it's a stew kind of a country. Oh, yeah. It's a lot of, like, one pot stuff. Yeah, and fish, though.

There's a lot of fish in Dublin. A lot of fish. I've never been a fish guy. I feel like I don't know why. Yeah. I have my theories. I mean, like, if you don't get the right fish, it's bland, really. That's right.

You got to do fish right for it to taste like something. And when you're the youngest of five. Yeah. Fish, no good. It can, you know, you get the dregs of food. The Irish breads, very good. Do you know what? We do great fucking dairy.

Yeah. We do great bread. We do great dairy. And I miss dairy. Yeah. We do great bread. We do great dairy. And I miss that. Yeah. Butters. Butters. Breads.

Jams. Yes. Stews. There's nothing wrong. I didn't have any stew, but I like stew. Stew is good. Yeah. But, okay, so you grew up in Boyle.

Yes. How many kids in your family? Nine? Twelve? Twelve. That's right. Oh, wow. No, that's not.

I was being a dick. Yes. Three? Four? Twelve? Twelve, that's right. Oh, wow. No, that's not. I was being a dick. Three? Four? Seven? They're all numbers, aren't they, Mark? Yep. I'm going to say five,

just due to accuracy. I'm the youngest of five. Yeah. I have an older brother who's ten years older and then three girls in between. Ten years older.

Well, that's not crazy. No, it's not at all. I don't know that guy. Yeah, a kid every two years. Oh, yeah. But you know your brother. 10 years older. Well, that's not crazy. No, it's not at all. I don't know that guy. Yeah, a kid every two years. Oh, yeah. But you know your brother. Very much so. I mean, he's not like 30 years older.

No, he's 10. Yeah. 10 years older. He's a wonderful man. Is he in Ireland? He's actually in London now. Oh. Yeah.

His name is John. Are any of them in Ireland still? I have a sister in Ireland who has five kids of her own. Five. And then I have a sister in Melbourne, Australia. And then a sister in Savannah, Georgia. Really? Yeah.

So they spread out. Yes, I feel like this is the first generation to really spread our wings. Finally. They left. But then I have an auntie who I don't know very well, but she went to Tel Aviv as a kid and stayed and has been there since. I guess she had the same experience that I had in Ireland with Israel. Very much so, but she really committed. Yeah, she did.

Look, there's still time, dude. I don't know what's going to happen here. No, sure. I mean, maybe inside two years. Yes. We'll see how it falls. Where do you think you'll end up? When I go to Ireland?

No, in your life. Oh. That's too broad a question. In general? Well, I think I just bought this house, and this might be the one, the last one. It's a lovely house. Yeah. I mean, I could see dying here.

That's how you buy a new house. Like, can I die here? Yeah, I could see you dying here. So, but I didn't want to die in the other one. It would be sad to die in that one. It's smaller can see you dying here. But I didn't want to die in the other one. It would be sad to die in that one. It's smaller. I see. You know, I don't have a wife and I don't have kids.

And I don't know what's going to happen. But I'd like to die in a bigger house. When the news crews come, you want to really put on a show. Yeah, yeah. You want to be like, yes, I died here. But I don't know what's going to happen. You know, it's day to day. No, I think that's true.

Do you get citizenship? Are you a citizen? We're actually in the middle of the green card process right now. And has that been fucked up by whatever's happening in the world or not? A little, yeah. It's just been slowed down. Usually it would be something that would take three months, and we're in our sixth month.

Are you nervous? No, I think it'll all be fine. The only thing with it is it has this frustrating thing. When you're in the middle of it, you can't leave the country. This country. This country. That's right. And we were trying to.

Oh, because if you do, it'll be like, sorry, that's it. You just have to start again, which is boring. Oh, even for a week? Doesn't matter? No, it doesn't matter. But what's the worst that could happen to you? You got to go back to beautiful Ireland. I know, but then you can't, you know, it's just annoying.

Not that that's going to happen. Yeah. But anyway, we're going to go back to London for six months. But do you get dual citizenship if you get the, if you are? I won't be a citizen. Oh, okay. No, I don't really have any interest in that. Oh, okay.

But both of my kids are American. Right, right. And they'll be dual citizens. Right. Oh, good. Yeah. But all right, so you're in Boyle. Yes. You're And they'll be Jew citizens. Right. Oh, good. Yeah. But, all right, so you're in Boyle. Yes.

You're the youngest of all these kids. Yes. They're doing things. You decide what? You're going to, how does it, like, what's your dad do? First of all, let's get a sense of it. He's a sign painter. That's practical.

So we would do, like, pub signs and vans. So I spent most of my kind of childhood up a ladder. Do a lot of, like, election posters and things like that. Were you like the last kid to be working with them? Yeah. Yeah. And I wasn't very good. No.

But my sisters were great. So you're all, you come from a sign painting family. That's right. How much sign painting is there to do? A lot. Is like when you go to Boyle, it's sort of like, that's my dad's sign, that's my dad's sign. Yes.

And they're still up. And the next town over and the next town over. So three or four towns. Yeah. Full of your dad's signs. Yeah, there weren't a huge amount of sign writers at the time.

Right. So we would, yeah, we had a lockdown. Did he do like more artistic stuff like pig's heads for the pubs that are name things. Oh, yeah, a little bit of that. It would generally be kind of cut out block painting or block letters and stuff like that.

And then later it moved more into like mechanical stuff. So you would kind of cut out. into like mechanical stuff. So you would kind of cut out. So he diversified as the sort of, as the type of science advanced, he stayed with the times. He was a really early adapter or adopter of like computer stuff.

Oh, good. Got really into like, I remember Gateway 2000. Sure. Yeah. The computer that came in the cow box. That's right. That's right.

And so as soon as that was possible, I think he was probably getting sick of being up a ladder when it's five degrees outside all the time as well. And so... Oh, it sped things up? Sped things up a lot. To make the stencil or what have you? Yeah, for things to not bubble and for things to not crack and it made it a lot

easier. And is he around? He's still around. Both of my parents are around. I was talking to him yesterday. Is he retired? He's retired pretty much. He kind of, now he updates a local website

for the town. That's kind of what he does. Yeah? Yeah. Does he go check his signs at all? There's a lot of them still up. I kind of love going home and we'll go to a town

like the next over or I remember doing a boat and we'll go out on the boat and I'll be like i remember putting the sign on this boat when we were like 25 years ago still there yeah and he'll be like i would have made a lot more money if i had made shit or signs yeah he just didn't get any repeat business yeah oh god they were solid yeah he used the right stuff yes he was a he was very much not a money person. He was not into the idea of planned obsolescence. No. Yes.

This will turn to shit in six years. They'll have to call me back. He was a perfectionist. Yeah. And probably a marginal workaholic. Better than an alcoholic. For sure. Yeah.

Or maybe not. I don't really know. Yeah, you do. Yeah. Or maybe not. I don't really know. Yeah, you do. So it did mean that that was definitely thrust at us.

And what did your mom do? She was a stay-at-home mom until I was kind of 10 or 11, and then she went back to college and became a therapist. What kind of therapist? She was from a small town, so it was mostly kind of relationship therapy, grief counseling. Oh, yeah, like she did a PhD or something like that? Yeah, she did an MA or whatever.

Wow. In Trinity, yeah. Oh, Trinity in Dublin? Uh-huh. That's a pretty campus. Yeah, it's lovely. Did you go see the Book of Kells? I did.

Yeah. They only show you one or two pages at a time. They say it's very repetitive. Oh, yeah. The same jokes. With the little art on the sides. That library's impressive, though. Yeah, it's a, you know what,

it's a beautiful campus. Yeah, fresh in my mind. This was there a few weeks ago. It's got all the cobblestones. Yeah. A tree just fell down. Oh, did you, really? Do you get that updates

on your phone? It was news. In Ireland? A tree fell down in the middle of Trinity Square. Is everybody okay? I presume there's a day of mourning. I haven't checked.

Yeah, okay, so there you are. That's right. So she goes back to college, and that was good. And you're left on your own just painting signs with your dad. When do you decide that you want to be an entertainer? Much much later so i go to college i get into college trinity well i actually went to ucd which is the one down this kind of down the street a bit is that the one where you tell you when you'd say to people they go oh yeah that one it's probably but it's it's also you know where james joyce went and oh uh it's it's did you James Joyce went. Oh.

Did you break the headphones? It would have been considered traditionally to be the Catholic University, whereas Trinity was the Protestant University. Oh, really? So originally Catholics weren't allowed into Trinity. Is that true? Yeah. Wow. It was set up by the British government for people abroad. Trinity was?

Uh-huh. Oh, so you actually went to the more Irish of the two. Right. Yet I thought that Trinity, or maybe it's just a town of Dublin, claims James Joyce. Maybe I don't know who. No. UCD would definitely claim James Joyce, but there would be busts and whatever of Joyce all over that part of Dublin because that's the whole.

That's all of it. That's his hood. That's Ulysses and Dubliners. Yeah. All in around there. Yeah. It's all of it that's his that's his hood that's Ulysses and Dubliners yeah all in and around there yeah it's all there there's some gorgeous but also like

the Ginger Man is right down there which is another fantastic Irish book the Ginger Man yeah there's a pub right on the just off Trinity Square

which is I haven't drank in so long I don't know I didn't go to any of those places I didn't enjoy any of the local music well that's a shame

yeah we actually spent a lot of time at this strange hippie-ish health food restaurant that has a walk through, what was it called? God damn it. It's an unusual name. My mind is going.

That's all right. But because my girlfriend, hold on, hold on. Name of Dublin place we ate. That's good, right? It's not even a real question. Is this iron ore? You know what it is? It's like I took those two

pieces from a beach in Kauai where they, you know, yeah, it's broken down iron from some sort of machine. Oh, that makes sense. It was not ore. It was a piece of something.

I don't know what, though. I don't think I was supposed to take it, though, but I don't think I'm going to get in trouble. We'll see. I know. But I do like Dublin, though I do realize now that it is sort of turned out a bit tourist-wise. It's not that quaint anymore in that way no and

it actually looks like a very kind of typical european city now like there are parts of it that where you could be in zurich right but we went out we took the train to the end and walked the cliffs oh yeah it's very pretty yeah yeah what's it called maybe you were i don't know you're either a donkey or hoath or somewhere like that. Hoth. Hoth. Yeah. Yeah, that's nice. Yeah, it was pretty. Yeah. I mean, that's sort of Irish country, right? Sure.

I mean, it's, yeah. Yeah, it was nice. I think it was interesting. I'm from the country. So, like, kind of places that are just outside the city feel like, oh, that's. This is on the water. It sounds like. It's very pretty. Hoth is gorgeous.

Yeah. It sounds like you're inland. Yeah. Yeah. We are. We're bog people. Bog. Bog people. Yeah. Yeah. Seamus Heaney. Yeah. Yeah. We are. We're bog people. Bog. Bog people.

Yeah. Seamus Heaney? Yeah. Yeah. Ah, the bog poems. Yeah, he's not that far from me. Yeah. Those were heavy.

Yeah. Yeah, I remember reading it. That's right. Yeah. The Stony Gray Soil of Monaghan. Yeah. Yeah. And it is something.

It's got like a somewhat of an Angela's Ashes feel to it, a lot of us. Yeah. It's heavy, right? Yeah. weight is is worn on the faces of the weight of history and the weight of experience and the weight of the family and he yeah he uses a lot of that in his themes but uh but you got out you went to dublin yeah i loved it but i went to dublin and studied politics and while i was there i did a play kind of by accident and then fell in love with that what play what play changed you it was from changing the world to being who you are now what did it to you what the fuck was it it was it wasn't even a play. It was called Hay Fever. And it was one of those English playwrights that write about country. Hay Fever.

I can't actually remember. But wait, what just happened in Ireland? They voted to repeal the Eighth Amendment. Yeah, which is a big deal. Big deal. Yeah, we're going the other way. We're going the other way in this country. In Ireland, the cradle of Catholicism is like...

It's incredible what's happening in Ireland, right? Oh my God, it was great. Because the year before last, we also voted for the legalization of gay marriage. Yeah. And now women are allowed to get abortions. Up until now, you had to go to England, which is just such a Neanderthalic kind of exercise.

Yeah, I mean, that's what's going to happen here. There are states now here that you can't. Yeah, I don't know what's going on in America. It's very odd. I do. It's terrible. Odd's a polite word for it, but I appreciate that. You can say how you really feel.

It's scary and fucked up. It really is. It's very, very odd. Okay, we'll stick with odd. It really is. It's very, very odd. Okay. We'll stick with odd.

The name of the restaurant we ate at a lot was Cornucopia in Dublin. That's a very traditionally Irish name. Yeah. It's a very kind of vegetarian, hippie-bent, Irish-style food place. Oh, cool. And we went to Buley's a lot. Okay. Yes.

That's an old standard. That's a nice place. Nice place to get. Yeah. It's traditional, but it's clean and standard that's a nice place nice place to get yeah it's like traditional but it's clean and pleasant they have nice food scones of all kinds

I think that's on Grafton Street yeah just the one with all the cobbles yeah yeah yeah it's pretty good music there see I lied

I did see I saw a lot of street performers on the streets buskers and some of them were fucking good yeah they're no joke they have to I think they have to get picked.

Oh. Like they don't let anybody just play on Grafton Street. Right. So there's something of a. Right. No, I. Which I think is good. That seems true.

Yeah. I mean, it seems like they had. They're no joke. Now, as an Irish person, does Bono annoy you? Don't think it through too much. I don't know. It's not that I'm thinking it seems like they had their shit together. Now, as an Irish person, does Bono annoy you? Don't think it through too much. I don't know. It's not that I'm thinking it through. Have you hung out?

I've met him. Oh. And I've... I'm a bit torn on him because I like so much of his music from the old days. Sure. And I've seen them perform a couple of times. Me too, me too me too yeah i think he gets too hard a time in ireland oh he does yeah why why why is that i guess it's hard

where you come from if people think you get too big for your britches there's that and there's some tax stuff oh and i think that yeah i think that predominantly it's the former. That thing of like, I genuinely think people got pissed off that he talked about charity so much. Yeah. Really? Yeah. I can't quite get my head around it. But like, you're talking about the Irish people.

So are they like, who do you think you are? Yes. I think that they would accuse him of sanctimony. There you go. Right. And that really pisses people off, particularly in Ireland. Yeah, no, I get it. I get it.

So, all right, so there's progressive things happening in Ireland on a governmental basis, cultural basis, but you bailed. You're like, I'm not cut out for politics. I'm a song and dance man. That's right. At the time I was doing politics in Ireland, it wasn't a particularly interesting political time in Ireland. But what were you studying exactly?

What was the idea? Well, we were doing a lot. I mean, so we would have been doing a lot of Anglo-Irish relations and a lot of world politics. I kind of like this. We were actually, it was just before 9-11, I guess, that I was there. So I remember doing a lot of pieces about the possibility of somebody from Saudi Arabia putting a big bomb in America. Right. There was a lot of talk about something like that.

God, I think in 95 they're already being... Oh, you mean the crate on the ship thing? Yeah. Mm-hmm. The suitcase thing. That's right. Yeah, those two. Yeah.

Yeah. So I guess that was a large part of the politics that we were studying. But honestly, I lost yeah after a bit i was like this is cool i'll go to the odd lecture but i started doing plays and really liked it and hadn't really been hadn't done anything expressive before in my life oh except for maybe paint some letters yeah which is much more of a practical skill than a creative thing right right right so all right so you start doing plays. Do you shift majors?

Do you study acting or you just wing it? No, I just wing it and I end up doing a bunch of plays, reading a bunch of plays, and then going to drama school. Oh, so you went after college. Uh-huh. So you graduated. Never graduated. Left college.

I got there to the end. I stayed till the end. But you didn't graduate. But I didn't graduate. You come up a couple credits short? Yeah. I think I missed a couple of exams. So doesn't that haunt you?

Do you ever wake up going, why can't I just finish that? Later, I didn't finish drama school. And the combination of these two. Didn't finish either. No. And the combination of all of these does haunt me a little. So you have two incompletes. That's right. Holy shit. Yeah. I Didn't finish either. No. And the combination of all of these does haunt me a little. So you have two incompletes. That's right. Holy shit.

Yeah. I don't, okay. You know what's going to happen eventually, you're going to be like I'm going to go finish shows. I'm really pushing to get an honorary degree. Both? I mean maybe from the drama school, but I think it's a stretch to think you're going to get one from me. Why? Would you be happy with

one? I mean, which one would you want? I don't think that the drama school would do it. No. I don't think we left on great terms. What did you do? I just didn't like it. Oh.

Did you do a play about it? Did you do something awful on stage? Did you slag them in the press? Maybe a little. In Ireland? No. So I went to drama school in London. So I left,

I was in Dublin for three years and then I went to London and was there for 10 years. How'd your parents respond when you were like, hey, I'm going to go do this with my life? They were surprised initially, but they were very supportive. I feel lucky that I was the youngest of five

and I think at that point they were like, he's not in prison, it's okay. So they had four successful children so they figured, let this one. They had four successful children so they figured let this one they had four reasonable children you know and and i think any moment of uh non-success had probably been brought about by too much pressure oh so they were like just let him do what he wants oh right so they learned a certain lesson yes oh so you go to england and

what what's the drama school? It's called the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art. That's a big one, right? Yeah, it's a pretty big one. Did you have to audition to get in?

Very much so. Huh. Yeah, which was scary. Yeah. What did you audition with, do you remember? I did, I think I did,

actually, I think I did something from Hurley Burley. David Rabe? Yeah. He wrote that, from Hurley Burley. David Rabe? Yeah. He wrote that, right? That's right, David Rabe.

That's a good one. And then some Shakespearean thing. I think it might have been Lovesick. You've got to do the modern, then the classical. That's right. And then a song. You did a song? Yeah.

What song? What was it? It was Fairytale of New York. Oh, I don't know that. The Pogues song. Oh, it's a great song. It's a what kind of song? It's a Pogues.

Oh, the Pogues. Shane McGowan and the Pogues. How's he doing? You talk to him? You know, I have one Shane McGowan anecdote. Do you want to hear it? I don't think I've ever told anybody. I worry about Shane, but yeah, let's hear it.

I met him maybe seven or eight years ago at some award ceremony for some Irish thing. Yeah. And I was getting some award and he was getting some kind of lifetime achievement award for music. And for being alive. Yeah. For being alive. Everybody was fucking stunned.

And at one point his manager or something came over to my table and said, you know, Shane would love to meet you. He's a big fan. And I was like, Jesus, really? I was like,

okay. And it was like a black tight thing. Yeah. It was the end of the evening. I take my jacket off. Yeah. And over and I sat like, Jesus, really? I was like, okay. And it was like a black tie thing. Yeah. It was the end of the evening. I take my jacket off. Yeah. And over and I sat with him and he wasn't very talkative.

Right. And so I kind of prattled on about how much I liked his vibe. And then eventually he stopped me and he says, out of a vodka and tonic, please. And he thought I was the waiter. I, you know, of course, at the time I was like, oh, shit.

Yeah. In retrospect, I kind of, I have a lot of respect for the fact that he thought I was a waiter and let me talk to him for so long. Effusively. Yeah. Yeah. Why wouldn't he? But yeah. And then, of course, I had to go and get him his drink.

In a pint glass. And that was it. He wanted it in a pint glass? Yeah. He asked for it in a pint glass? Yeah. He actually did this thing where he just went like this. With his hands?

I'm using my hands to indicate a pint glass. Big one. Yeah. Big vodka and tonic. Yeah. So, all right. So, you did the Pogue song. You did a little Shakespeare.

You did the Hurley Burley. You got in. Got in. You wowed them. You charmed them with your song and dance. That's right. And you didn't like the school. I just thought I wasn't ready to be educators again. I felt like I just- Didn't seem like you were ready the first time. I don't like the school. I just thought I wasn't ready to be educators again.

I felt like I just- Didn't seem like you were ready the first time. I don't think I was. I think I should have left school and just done something else. But I, because I'm not great with authority. Yeah. But I keep putting myself in positions where I'm being authorized constantly. But maybe when you sought to study acting,

you thought it would be more fun. That's right. But that school was kind of rigid. It was extraordinarily rigid and up its own hole and taught everything in a very traditional sense that didn't in any way to me

adhere to the kind of modern necessities of creating a career in this thing. They're not going to give you honorary. They're not, are they? Even just from that fucking sentence, it's gone. I think that ship has sailed. It's fair, isn't it? Yeah. But maybe they could just think

about it. Yeah. I think you should go for the other place, the Catholic College. Which I loved. Yeah, great education. Oh my God, what a beautiful campus. What a mistake that you left in your heart, right? My fault, not theirs.

This is going to happen, man. We're going to make this fucking happen. Shit. But really rigid, right? What does that mean? Movement, Shakespeare every day, fencing. Dance, like a lot of dancing. Really?

Way more dancing than I was expecting, Mark. And I don't mind a boogie. I don't. But it was a lot of dancing. There was like salsa and then there was flamenco. Really? And then there was, yeah. And then I guess they thought it was something that like a.

Gets you in your body? Kind of a, yes, a holistic approach to movement as an actor, which I actually, I it was something that like a. Gets you in your body. Kind of a. Yes. A holistic approach to movement as an actor, which I actually I didn't mind that so much. But then it was like, oh, I'm playing. It's just more and more Jacobean dramas or fucking. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Restoration comedies. Right. Like Jesus. We have one week of like TV and film training a year. I'm like, what the fuck? Come on, guys. Yeah. Yeah.

We want to make some money, some of us. Well, not even that, but it's like, you just can't survive on what they were trying to sell. Well, how long did you last? Probably a year and a half of two years.

Man, you get right up to the wire, don't you? Yeah. And you fucking pull out. I feel like I thought I was going to see it through. And then I got a job and I was like, ah. Got a job. And then I owed them money and I'm like, thought I was going to see it through and then I got a job and I was like, ah.

And then I owed them money and I'm like, I'm not going back. You got a job on television? I probably still owe them money. You probably still owe them money? Yeah, probably. They must really be up their own ass if they haven't found you. I don't think it was much. Oh, the Alumni

Association of my college, they know where I am. I think I could, if I stayed at a hotel for more than a month, I would get mail from them. I'm surprised that I don't get mail from the BU Alumni Association when I'm on vacation for more than a week. Well, since I left, I've been keeping a real low profile. Oh, yeah, I can tell. Yeah, they could never find you. No. So what was the job that job was uh it was about priests do you know what it was about it was about like homosexuality in the priesthood yeah and while it was i guess it's raison d'etre was to be

controversial and and while we were making it all of the stories about pedophilia in the priesthood came out. And suddenly our movie felt very timid. It was a movie. It was a movie, yeah. It was called, what was it called? Do you want me to look? Yeah. Conspiracy.

Conspiracy of Silence. Right. That was a good memory. Like if we just cut out the part where I say, do you want me to look? You'd be like, I did it. It wouldn't be at all weird that I was kind of shouting it as you were saying it. Yeah, yeah. So, okay.

Did you see the movie Priest? It was just called Priest. I didn't. Yeah. Who was in that? I can't remember. I remember it being around. It was like the guy from Robert Carlyle was in it.

Oh, is that who it was? Yeah. And the lead was another guy that i'm i'm not remembering but it's about a closeted gay priest who um keeps the secret you know when like when he he's outed but he also like he's been confessed to by a teenage girl who's being sexually abused by her father. Fuck. And he keeps that secret. Oh. And, you know, when everybody turns on the priest for being gay,

you know, she's the only one that takes communion at the end from him. Rough stuff. You know, yesterday, the Pope came out. He's gay? Wow, I think I would have heard about that. Nobody would be shocked. My phone must be broken. You know, yesterday the Pope came out. He's gay? Wow, I think I would have heard about that. Nobody would be shocked. My phone must be broken. I'd be so delighted for him.

God, you know what? That would actually be my initial thought would be, I'm so delighted for him. That he feels he can. Everything's changing. Ireland repeals the Eighth Amendment. But because of that, he has come out publicly and said that abortion is akin to Nazism.

And we've had some of our high priests and bishops in Ireland tell everybody who voted yes to go to confession. It feels so extraordinarily behind the times. Well, but you know what? The institutions, if they want to remain institutions, they either adapt or they just hold the line. I know. I know. And if that's their course of action, they're not going to win. All they have to do is look at who's in the church, and it's less people every year.

And that's from not adapting. I mean, after a certain point, if you learn that the church has, I mean mean, we arguably been hiding pedophiles for centuries. Uh-huh. Right. You know, like, at what point do you go, like, maybe the church

is a little corrupt, but then- But a lot of the stuff that they've put in, and they've put in, there's nothing to do with God, but particularly

with Catholicism, the idea that priests can't marry is purely a financial decision. Essentially, the Catholic church decided the priests

can't marry because they couldn't afford to take care of priest families. Yeah, because there's going to be a lot, a lot of kids. A lot of kids, because these aren't going to be big condom guys. So it's going to be, yeah, it's going to be a lot of kids, and it's going to be, they're not going to be able to maintain that. But then you end up with people who don't want to get married or have sex.

Right. So now you're picking from a group of people who are committed virgins. Yeah. And that's dangerous. Yeah, it's a tough road. That's a small demo.

I have some sympathy with the Catholic Church in that I think that for a long time in somewhere like Ireland, it was, we needed something to maintain a national identity when we were constantly being bombarded by somebody else's. Yeah. And I think that people found refuge in the Catholic Church. Right. And found a state of identity, whether that was misplaced or not, but to soldier through those hard times.

And there is a chance that now we just don't need that anymore. And therefore, the institution has become redundant. Right. Yeah, well, it's not going to go away. But, you know,

people will still have faith because we just, until somebody comes back and say, hey, I've just died and this happened. Yeah. There's always going to be religion. Right, right. But, you know, it won't be, you know, you'll negotiate your relationship with it as people have been doing forever.

That's right. And you don't have a relationship with it. I don't. Did you grow up with it? I was an ultra boy growing up. So I can't remember or recall how much of it I believed or didn't believe or what faith I had necessarily. I can't remember ever losing faith. Yeah.

So there's a good chance I just never really bought into it. So it wasn't beaten into your brain. No, no. It was definitely a big part of our teaching. Yeah. But I... You weren't sufficiently terrified like my parents and and would talk of like the most horrendous treatment at the hands of kind of bullying priests and nuns oh really um which was just by the by and in art but you didn't it didn't you didn't experience it. No, I didn't.

And I actually grew up with very progressive priests who I still kind of love dearly as people and progressive men. Oh, that's nice. You talk to them still? Yeah. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. But no, you're not hung up on the God thing?

No. No. And I think they seem okay with that. Well, yeah, they're happy you're a decent fella. Yeah, I think so. I think so, yeah. So, okay, so you do the movie. Right.

But it didn't really take off. No. And then I probably didn't work for two years. So are you happy you dropped out? I mean, if I had been surrounded by everybody else who was doing wonderfully I probably would have thought oh shit but everybody wants to get out of struggling

so what did you do for two years bar mostly worked in a lot of bars worked in construction, worked in call centres did all of that for probably the guts of a decade even when you start working you're only getting the odd job are you doing bit parts?

doing little bit parts and things yeah up until kind of when i'm 26 27 yeah something like that yeah and then when do you when does it break what i do what bit parts did you do like like anything big no no nothing that you would have heard of i don't think um like procedural kind of stuff on british tv yeah and then um and then i did a show called the it crowd oh that was a big show uh which was a comedy yeah that did pretty well i remember watching episodes of it online okay when it was popular because people were like this is the popular funny show yeah right it was like it was almost like it had sort of a buzz that was almost office office ish right right yeah it it um it was a popular show very funny show at times and um introduced me to a writer called graham

lenehan who's a terrific irish writer uh-huh um and he would have been kind of a hero of mine for years from another show called Father Ted and Black Books with Dylan Moore. Black Books, I watched some of those

because I talked to Dylan years ago. Yeah. Yeah, that was, oh, he's the same guy? Yeah. Oh, he wrote that too. Yeah, the two of those guys

wrote that one. Yeah. But is that after IT Crowd? No, this was before. Yeah, yeah, right. That was earlier. Uh-huh. So he's, right. That was earlier. Uh huh. So he's a very funny guy.

Yes. And, uh, so that was, that was my first kind of introduction to doing something that people are going to see. And getting paid regular. Getting paid, which was good.

Yeah. Um, and it was the first time that I could not do other jobs. Yeah. Which was great. Yeah. Cause I'd done the odd thing. I'd done a film with Mike Lee do other jobs yeah which was great yeah because I'd done the odd thing I'd done a film with Mike Lee called Vera Drake which was um a terrific film but those kind of you know you still got to do your day job what it was I didn't see that one it was a later Mike

Lee film huh it was uh it was about it was bring it all back and It was about backstreet abortionists in London. Oh, I think I did see that. I love his stuff. I oddly do something of a comic turn in it. Oh, really? I didn't know when I was making the film what it was about. Yeah. And then a friend of mine a few months later said,

oh, I saw that Mike Lee movie that you're in. Yeah. And I was like, oh, shit, how is it? And he said, oh, I mean, it's Mike Lee movie that you're in. Yeah. And I was like, oh shit, how is it? And he said, oh, I mean, it's, it's fucking dark. Oh, so you just had like a scene? Yeah. I was like, what do you mean it's dark? I'm basically doing a fucking, no, there's no, it's improvised. There's no script.

There's nothing. So he just cast you for a bit? Yeah. We didn't even know what I was going to do when he cast me. And I don't know if you know much about his process, but it's kind of fascinating where I worked, I must have,

I did one day's filming, but I worked on it for four and a half months. So you go in once every two or three weeks and you start from the ground up of like,

let's talk about people in your life. I want you to talk to me about 10 different people in your life. With Mike. With Mike. And he will hone,

after talking about all of these people for quite a while, Mike. With Mike. And he will hone, after talking about all these people for quite a while, hone in on one person that he wants you to play. And then you create an basically in a kind of an alternative universe that they have grown up in, but this person is still

the same essence of a person. Wow. And then he, closer to the time of the filming will start to fill you in on the very details and minutiae of this person's life huh and then on the day of the filming he's you get into costume and he says you're going to go in and buy a suit like okay and we're in some hospital somewhere yeah and he says you just whenever you're ready you just walk down the corridor and the fourth door on the left, I haven't seen a camera

or anybody at this point. Yeah. You're just going to walk into that room and you're going to buy a suit, you know, for your sister's wedding like we talked about. Yeah.

I was like, okay. And so you go in and it's a whole set and there's kind of hidden camera, not hidden camera, but like they're kind of disguised behind big uh flats

and things and somebody writing down all of the words and you go into another actor there played by danny mays and uh a character played by danny mays and you do the scene it takes whatever six or seven minutes and then he's like okay cut great thanks and uh and he said now what we're going to do is somebody is transcribed is going to transcribe everything that you just said and we're going to shoot it tomorrow with that transcription and that's going to be your script and that's it wow so you went in the next day and did it and when you were given sides yeah of what you said what was unusual about it is that obviously it's entirely improvised the day before and then

on the day it's really it's like doing a sorkin movie or something where you're incredibly if you if you say that instead of a he's like cut no that's really yeah it's very weird but kind of fascinating that's wild yeah that's. So that's how he makes the whole movie. I guess so. I mean, that's my experience. Yeah. So you did,

I got to watch it, you did a funny bit in there. Yeah. But like again. I was very surprised to hear it was a drama. And when you watch it, you'll be like,

how did you not know? It's very much a dark kitchen sink drama. Well, yeah, you were just doing the one bit. So how do you get over here? Well, I came over,

I was auditioning for a lot of stuff. There? No, here, yeah, in London. And I auditioned for something which I thought was for the BBC and it turned out

that it was for NBC. Uh-huh. And it was a pilot. And so I came over and ended up testing for a pilot with Kevin Hart. Yeah. And. Is that where you met Dave Becky?

Don't you have a Dave Becky story? Yes. Well, I signed with Becky off that. Oh, so you come here. It's Kevin Hart's first. The show didn't go, though. The show didn't go. But you met Becky.

Yeah. Dave Becky. Kevin and I are actually testing against each other for whatever fucking role we are both the right person for we are um that's oh really yeah and uh eventually we both end up in the show so that was back in 2000 and what five, something like that. And Becky's like, you're my guy. Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. And the show doesn't go, I go back to England and keep working,

but then I start coming back because it doesn't feel like such an odd thing to do anymore. Right. And I liked it. And I liked that it was warm. Yeah. Yeah.

Which seems trite, but it's kind of nice so warm what was the story we talked about when we were at the hotel that day about the weird coincidence of Becky yeah I I know that Becky represented you but like that you're oh right well just that um I kind of around the time I started meeting Judd Apatow, he told me that I got a particular audition because I think Becky used to give him time at a club. Oh, back when he was... Back when Becky was running doors. At the improv, yeah. And so that's kind of how that worked out.

Oh, really? Yeah. And so that's kind of how that worked out. Oh, really? Yeah. But yeah, around that time, I was coming back a bit. And then I managed to get an audition for the Bridesmaids movie. Yeah.

And that was more because I think Paul Feig had watched The IT Crowd. Oh, okay. And was familiar with that. And I don't think anybody else in the room knew me. But I remember going into that thinking, um, this is unlikely. Yeah. And they have that odd thing in American auditions where there's like a sheet outside for you to sign your name, to just let the casting director know that you've arrived.

And you look at the fucking sheet and it's like, Oh my God, it's all these fucking people. Everybody, everybody is a star. It's literally everybody that's better than me in America. Right. And so I'm like,

ah, wow. And it had this odd effect on me, literally everybody that's better than me in america right and so i'm like ah wow and and it had this odd effect on me which was to suddenly make me utterly calm about the whole thing yeah because i'm like oh it's not even there's no chance you know so so there's no pressure right so when he first met apatow it was like it like was like he brought up that Becky used to put him on stage. That's right. And that's why he's meeting you. Or why he was, I think, looking favorably at me.

I think he was meeting me because I had just done a good audition with Paul and Kristen. Oh, okay. So that was like, you showed up at a couple other things, but that was a big part. You were like the nice guy in the Bridesmaids movie. Right. The cop, it was funny, but it was warm. You seemed like a real character, like a grounded kind of guy. Yes, I think that's right. And I obviously, when I was doing that film, didn't know that it was, I didn't know what the girls were doing. Right. I didn't know what the girls were doing right

so I thought hey what we're doing is pretty good but it wasn't until I saw it that I was like oh my god this is this is a

this is funny as shit right and like I hadn't seen the stuff that kind of Rose and Kristen and Melissa were doing yeah so when I watched it

I was like oh god yeah I'm glad I didn't know I would have really tried to be very funny and stunk the place out. But there was no script

or you just don't read the scripts when you get there? I think a lot of the stuff that ended up in that movie came quite late. Yeah. And I was going through some process thing

at the time where I wasn't really reading scripts. I was only reading stuff I was in. Yeah. Just the parts of the script

that you were in. Yeah. Yeah. Why? Because I felt that you get clouded by everything else. And just the part, just the parts of the script that you were in. Yeah. Yeah. Why? Because I felt that you get clouded by everything else. And for exactly the reason I think I just said, where it's like, I would have tried to do something else based on somebody else's stuff. But maybe something, you know, they set up your character some way earlier on that you might need to know. I remember actually asking, let me know if there's anything I need to know. Otherwise,

just give me the pages that I've been. So what's it like doing this type of TV show that you're doing now with Get Shorty? I mean, because it's like it's not essentially, it's not a comedy like regular comedies. No. No, it's, I guess, what the fuck would you call it? It's kind of like a comedy drama, but it's more, I don't know, it's kind of like action-y. it's more i don't know it's kind of like actiony and yeah there's a lot going on yeah there's like car stuff yeah but you and you're working with ray yeah which is you know you guys are doing a lot of stuff together and he's a funny guy yeah he's

great yeah he's lovely to be around actually he's gotten to be a very good actor i love watching him like i could watch him all day. I think he just does desperation so beautifully. Yeah. And he's somebody that you can always rely on in the scene. You know, that he's always thinking. Yeah. It's always taking over, and he's still always looking for a fucking funny out.

Yeah. Which is great. Right. But he's made some big choices with it and followed through on them and I love what he's doing on it. I love the show. Like I love doing it.

I love that it, it doesn't have the means to an end that sometimes doing a comedy can feel like. Right. It's like, am I getting, if you're not getting the full comic potential out of it,

it doesn't mean it's not working. Right. That, uh, there are emotional beats in it and there is danger and suspense. Right. It's not a joke to joke thing. No.

You know, and it, you know, it's not always going to be funny. No, particularly because I'm in it. Yeah. No,

but it's like, you know, there's, you know, there's a, there it's like, there's violence. Sure. These are seedy guys.

It's very unusual for me to play a front foot character. You know, a character who's going to walk into a room and try and intimidate someone. And that was probably why I took it on. Yeah. Just to feel what that felt like. And how does it feel? Feels fucking great. Like I could see how people

get addicted to this shit. Sure. Yeah, for people to fucking... To be the crazy in control guy? The scary guy? Well, yeah, to be the person capable of violence in a room

is... It's interesting the way that other characters kind of behave. You don't have to... You suddenly don't have to do anything. Yeah. Like, just being there and inhibiting the space with some kind of danger is kind of intoxicating.

Yeah, and what did you draw from to get there? Just your own... Some people I grew up with. Oh, yeah. And, yeah, some very specific people i grew up with oh yeah and um yeah some very specific people i grew up with but were you able to tap really yeah some guy that beat the shit out of you yeah kind of yeah some kind of route you know i used to get into some scraps as a kid yeah you used to get do this thing in the west of Ireland,

which is fucked up when I think about it now. But at the end of, like, a disco or a club or whatever, like, towns would take on each other. Yeah. So, like, Boyle would fight Carrigan Shannon behind the buses. Yeah. And, like, there would be the guys from Boyle would, like, pick five guys.

Even if you were walking past or trying to kiss somebody or something,'d be like come on we're having a fight with this other town and i'm like sure why yeah sure why because you're tall and uh so it was those kind of people right um they don't necessarily have everything in common with a character like this, but a lot of the touchstones for him, somebody who's kind of slightly on the run and someone who doesn't have a lot of control, but then in an aggressive situation is extraordinarily controlled. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah, so that was a big base.

So you can put them all together. But did you tap into your own anger? A lot of my own. It's a nice, this is a healthy outlet for it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I find I beat up a lot less people in my daily life since I started the show. And now, where are you at?

You guys have done, have you shot a season two? Yeah, we just actually finished this week. Oh, really? Yeah, I just finished season two this week. Oh, that's great. So now they're going to go into post? Yeah, I'm actually going to go. Oh, really? Yeah, I just finished season two this week. Oh, that's great. So now they're going to go into post? Yeah, I'm actually going

to go and do ADR after this. Oh, right now? Yeah. And you got movies you're working on? So right now, what am I doing? I don't know.

I'm about to go back to London. I'm going to shoot this interesting thing. Finish college. Yeah. I'm going to go back and do this interesting thing,

which is like 10-minute short films about a couple British College. Yeah. I'm going to go back and do this interesting thing, which is like 10 short minute, 10 minute short films about a couple just before they go into their therapy. Huh. Into their room.

What's that for? We don't really know yet. Oh. But it's my son. Seems like a smart job to take. I'm literally not getting paid for it. Oh, it's great. Yeah, so.

You're really open to opportunities. My wife's delighted. But it's an interesting kind of a thing where... It's myself and Rosamund Pike, who's a lovely actor, and Stephen Frears is directing it, and I feel good about it. I feel like it's an interesting little art piece. Yeah.

And what are these things, these Moonboy things? Oh, that's art piece. Yeah. And what are these things, these Moon Boy things? Oh, that's my show. Yeah. Yeah, that's a show that myself and my friend Nick Murphy wrote based on us kind of growing up. But these are based on books that you wrote or the books were after? The books were after. So we did three seasons of a TV show and then three books. Where was it on?

It was on Sky in Ireland and England. And here it's on Hulu. Oh, wow. I got to check it out. And then three books. It was on Sky in Ireland and England. And here it's on Hulu. Oh, wow. I've got to check it out. Yeah. Is it about your childhood? Yeah. It's about, it's semi-autobiographical about kind of an 11-year-old growing up with an imaginary friend.

It's for kids? It's for families, I would say. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Are you going to do more of those? I'm going to give it a couple of years and I think maybe pick it up. I ran out of stories to tell about an 11-year-old.

And now I'd like to see how an 18-year-old with an imaginary friend, how fun that might be. That's a sadder story. Yeah. Yeah. All right, man. Well, go do your ADR. It was great talking to you.

Pleasure. Thanks for having me. Me and Chris O'Dowd. Enjoyable human, isn't he? Season two of Get Shorty returns to Epix on Sunday, August 12th. You can see him here and there and other things. I like that guy. I just like that guy.

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