WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 948 - Sir Paul McCartney

Episode Date: September 5, 2018

Marc talks with Paul McCartney about, well, a lot: The Beatles and Stones rivalry that wasn’t, his current relationship with Ringo, the influence of Little Richard, The Who, The Beach Boys, how he needs to have an out-of-body experience to really examine the Beatles legacy, the reception of his solo work after the Beatles, recording Band on the Run in Nigeria, what messages are in his songs, which songs still make him emotional when he performs them, and what he brought to the table for his latest album, Egypt Station. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace, The Daily Show with Trevor Noah: Ears Edition, and Casper. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series, streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required.

T's and C's apply. Lock the gates! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucksters? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron.

This is my podcast wtf welcome to it big day it is a big day there's no way to deny that i do want to set it up a little bit i want to set up my story and i want to set up the story of the event but i will tell you right out of the gate here because i don't want to waste any time today is paul mccartney day here paul m McCartney Day here. Paul McCartney, a Beatle, one of two Beatles left. I talked to him. Now, it's going to be a bit different than the regular format because this was a live event, and that was the deal. I was asked by Paul and his people to moderate a live event with Paul, me and Paul, on stage. It was about 600 people or so maybe more

i'm not sure but it was for capital records it was the fifth annual capital congress where capital records basically takes over the arclight uh movie complex over there or a couple of theaters anyways and runs events all day and paul mccart Beatle, was the surprise guest. And I was the guy who got to do the talking to him. I was able to interview Paul. But I just want to set you up a little bit so you know what you're getting into. It is a live event. There was a large audience there.

Paul and I were both aware of that. And being entertainers that we are, you know, there was an element of involving the audience in terms of how we paced our conversation, which happens in a live event. I've not done a live WTF in a long time and I've only done a few one-on-one live events that were later published as podcasts. And one of the best ones really,

one of the best podcasts that I've ever done in a lot of ways and a monumental moment for me was doing this type of thing with Terry Gross several years ago at BAM in Brooklyn for a radio event. And that turned out to be a great time, as did Paul. Now, obviously, we all love the Beatlesles and if you say that you don't love the beatles then there's clearly you know you really haven't processed it properly or or you're you're taking a stand for something there's something fundamentally a little flawed if you can dismiss the beatles uh at all at once you might say, like, I didn't like that one album, but even that's weird, honestly. And I'm not trying to be judgmental. I'm just saying that Beatles songs

are like, they're almost like Christmas songs in a way where, you know, I'm a Jew, but I know most of the Christmas songs, at least the first verse, they're just in your head. They're almost biological. Beatles songs in the brain, it's almost biological. They're all in there. Now, some of us put effort into getting them all in there. Others, they're just in there. You don't even know how they got in there. There's an argument to be made that maybe we're actually born with the raw elements of Beatles songs in our heads. They're ready to gel. They're in there when when you're born they just don't have the form and then you know as soon as you hear maybe two notes of any beatle song magically the song just forms itself in your brain at a very early age sometimes a prenatal i think is what happens and then within the first year your brain just loads up with most of the beatle songs now

obviously as an infant you can't be responsible for say revolution number nine with most of the Beatles songs. Now, obviously, as an infant, you can't be responsible for, say, Revolution No. 9 or some of the more esoteric stuff, perhaps a couple of the bits on Magical Mystery Tour, but most of the other stuff is in there. You can't sing along with Revolution No. 9, really. No. 9, No. 9, No. 9, No. 9, or perhaps, but even the melody of flying on Magical Mystery Tour. Not a lot of words, but how can you forget that? That's probably the most prenatal Beatles song is the instrumental flying from, I believe, Magical Mystery Tour. I reacted not unlike I did with President Obama when I was offered the opportunity to talk to him and Paul. I was sort of like, oh, man, really?

You know, like, I mean, what am I going to how am I what am I going to get? You know, I mean, what am I going to really how am I going to do that? And it happened again with Paul. It happened with President Obama. He was president. And Paul is a beetle. Ultimately, I would think a beetle probably bigger in some ways. The beetles are, you know, the president all the time.

And they're magnanimous and all loving and they, you know, they don't govern per se, but they have governed us through many feelings and emotions and periods in our lives and they continue to do so

for generations and generations. It's not going to go away, but I don't need to plug the Beatles. The Beatles really are the, and they still, for whatever reason, are the greatest. They really are. So why?

Why would I be adverse to this amazing opportunity to talk to Paul? Let's talk about this event. Brendan told me what was up, that the Paul thing was going to happen. We've been sort of dancing around it for a while, but this live event seemed like the perfect opportunity. And I freaked out. I'm like, okay, I'll do it. And then I just proceeded to freak out and make myself sick. Because I was sort of like,

why? What am I going to, how am I, what hasn't he talked about? This is a Beatle that's, you know, he's talked about everything Beatles. He's talked about everything Paul. You know, he's talked about everything. There's no, I'm not going to find a new way in. I'm not going to, I'm not going to like get like what I do here in the garage. I'm not like, I'm making all these excuses to freak myself out. I listened to all the Beatles stuff that I liked. I listened to all the wing stuff that I like. I listened to later McCartney. I listened to the

new album, Egypt Station. I do that to myself sometimes when I have musical guests that have a big discography who are prolific. But this is McCartney, man. And it was great to listen to some of that solo stuff. Some of it for the first time. It was mind-blowing. But I was still freaking out. And finally, Brendan sort of talked me down. He's like, what difference does it make, man? What difference does it make? You're talking to a Beatle, you know, I mean, this is Paul McCartney. I mean, just go enjoy the conversation with Paul McCartney. And I'm like, yeah, man. Yeah, that's what I'm going to do. Who cares what gets uncovered or who cares what's been covered or anything else? I'm going to go hang out with Paul McCartney, Sir Paul McCartney. But I'm still a little weird. I'm still a little

weird. I didn't understand why I wasn't more excited. I didn't understand initially why I was still a little freaked out. And then like, I'll tell you guys this. You know, I don't know that I told Paul in so many words, but when you grow up with the Beatles, when you were a Beatles nut and really leaned into them a lot when you were a kid and put all that in your head and had a relationship with the Beatles, uh, you have your beetle. Yes, people, uh, I'm 54 years old. So, you know, I had my beetle and I, I did. And, um, and this was really what was at the core of my anxiety. And also my, my weird reaction was,

uh, my beetle was, was John. And, um, and I'm surprised that it stuck so long there. Cause there was part of me that's sort of like, I'm going to interview Paul,

but you know, Paul's Paul. I mean, you know, John was my beetle. John, man, the raw one,

the, the, you know, the tormented one, the one that wore his heart on his sleeve, the intense one. I mean wanted to run into John in New York City. I just, John was my guy. But that was sort of at it. And once I resolved that and was like, dude, dude, it's Paul McCartney. I mean, it's went into McCartney. He's like, yeah, there's still part of me.

He's like, yeah, but John was my guy. It's like, well, shut up and go talk to Paul, will you? I mean, come on, it's Paul McCartney. But you have these relationships, you know, go talk to Paul, will you? I mean, come on, it's Paul McCartney, but you have these relationships, you know, but it was, but once I saw Paul, people become people very quickly for me, especially after doing this for so long, you know, having them over to my house, sitting around with them before and after a talk, taking pictures, you know, having conversations after the, you know, this was not going to happen with Paul. This was Paul McCartney, Sir Paul. So I'm at the event and we're in some holding area and there's other events going on and we're waiting for Paul.

He's running late and I've got my notes and, you know, I kind of put some stuff together because I got about an hour with him in this event. It's about an hour and it's live and, you know, you want to be prepared. You don't want to wing it in a live situation, really. You want to have a place to go. And I'm just hanging out. Sarah's there, Sarah the painter, and Paul's publicist. And then Paul comes.

He shows up. He looks great, spry, on top of it, quick, you know, moving around, like well-groomed. Looks like Paul McCartney. And he's over there. And, you know, I put some thought into how I wanted to introduce myself. And there's a lot of people around him. And he's like, is there a place we can have some water or get, you know, a mirror or something? And I'm like, can we get him a mirror?

Yeah, I hadn't met him yet. And he didn't. I just was like already sort of like, can we can we get the Paul needs a water or whatever? Like, and there was a lot of people around. And he just, I think, in that moment assumed I was somebody working at the event. I said, hi, I'm Mark Marin. I'm going to be interviewing. It's like, oh, you know, you're the guy, you know.

And I don't claim to do it, Paul. I don't do any real impressions. But I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then like my big plan was that this is what I said to Paul. The first thing I said to him is like, yeah yeah and then like uh my big plan was that um this is what i said to paul the first thing i said to him is like yeah i'm real excited about this but i was told that uh that the beatles are off limits is that true and he went no you know it was like a one of those laughs right all right smart ass but i gotta laugh gotta laugh out of paul right there first line in and that was good it was a nice icebreaker we talked a little bit uh he you

know not about anything and we just we we went right to the side door and i said it's gonna be great he told me which where he wanted to sit he wanted to sit on the stage right so i sat on stage left and you know i went out there and i just introduced him place went crazy sat down and we had the talk me and paul Paul McCartney had the talk. So now I take you to the 5th Annual Capitol Congress for Capitol Records event to a live conversation I had with Sir Paul McCartney of Wings fame and the Beatles, man, the Beatles. And also he's got this new album, Egypt Station, comes out tomorrow,

September 7th. Get it wherever you get music. Okay. Paul McCartney and me now. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a

highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+.

We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. out Paul McCartney ladies and gentlemen

come on out thank you thank you very much thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you

thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you Nice to see you. Nice to see you, Mark. Sir Paul McCartney. Yes, sir. Thank you. Now, being a knight, Yeah. what does that enable you to do?

Can you go to the British Museum and take out armor? No, but I can drive a herd of sheep through the city of London. Really? That's a real thing. What is it? They give you the freedom. It's slightly different. They give you the freedom of the

city. And my daughter, Stella, said, what is it? Did you get anything? I said, I don't know. I've got to think. I don't know. So she looked it up. And she said, yeah, what is it? Did you get anything? I said, I don't know. I've got to think. I don't know. So she looked it up. And she said, yeah, it is. I am entitled to drive a flock of sheep through the city of London.

I'm surprised Capital didn't think of that for a publicity thing. There's time. And another question I have, because I've talked to Keith Richards not too long ago. And I read in the book that you guys hung out a bit. And I was thinking that maybe we need a dark knight. Is there any way we can sort of rally to get Keith Richards a knighthood? Yeah, I think he deserves one. Yeah.

Do you still hang out with that guy? No, that was the last time that he was talking about we were on holiday in the Turks and Caicos. Yeah. Do you still hang out with that guy? No, that was the last time that he was talking about we were on holiday in the Turks and Caicos. Yeah. And I discovered that he was along the beach, so I used to make the journey after lunch. Yeah. And, well, we had some fun times.

Was it tense at first? No. I mean, I've known him forever. Right. You know, because we started off at the same time, and we wrote the first single for them and stuff, you know. So we've known each other a long time. But I hadn't seen him for quite a while.

But our careers had happened, and now we suddenly got together. And it was funny, man. It was hilarious. Yeah? Because the conversation, of course, you know, got to sort of crazy stuff. Yeah? Like what? Like what?

Well, we were designing portable dog kennels that were inflatable. Huh. It was a pretty good idea, we thought, you know. A lot of weed involved. What, in the kennels? In the creating of it. In the creative process, it was required. Yeah.

We got around to kind of, well, if you had one, you could custom make them for like Dalmatians would be polka dot. Sure, sure. I thought it was a pretty good idea. Well, this is an exciting transition for Keith. It was a pretty good idea. Well, this is an exciting transition for Keith. I think hearing about this, I had no idea that that would be a business idea that he would come up with. And did you follow through?

No. Okay, good. No. That's probably better off. Now, I was surprised that back in the day when you were all in London together that there was a lot of open communication between the Beatles and Stones in terms of who's going to drop what when. Yeah, exactly. Because people thought, you know, the kind of legend grew that it was like rivalry and everything. But it was about the opposite.

Oh, really? So like you say, you know, if we had a record coming out August the 28th, we would ring them, sort of say, have you got anything coming out? Say, yeah, we've got something coming out, the 28th, we would ring them, sort of say, have you got anything coming out? Say, yeah, we've got something coming out, you know, August the 17th. We said, okay, we'll put ours back a bit. Really?

Yeah, it was nice. And that was a really very friendly scene. I remember one evening, I used to, we used to hang out at each other's places. And I was at, I think Mick was living with Keith at the same time and a few other people. And I was there hanging out and they were at a studio doing a recording session.

And they came back from the session and they had an acetate, which is how you used to kind of bring your stuff in those days. And it was Ruby Tuesday. Wow. So we stuck it on. It was like, I like that one. Oh, really? Yeah. And it was Ruby Tuesday. Wow. So we stuck it on. It was like, I like that one. Oh really? Yeah. You know,

so it was, it was, it was that friendly. That's a, that's sort of a, like a, well, that changes everything about the way I think about everything.

Um, there, there was a, there was a comic years ago. It was funny. Cause he used to do this joke where he'd go like, you know, some kids play cowboys and Indians.

I used to play Beatles and Stones. And I don't know which ones the Beatles would be. I'm assuming the Indians, but it doesn't matter. It's probably not a politically appropriate joke anymore, but nonetheless, it was back in the day. You've got to be careful these days, baby. I do. I do.

Do you feel that yourself? We were the cowboys. Oh, good, good. Yeah, I think that yourself? We were the cowboys. Oh, good, good. Yeah, I think that's true. Stealth cowboys, yeah. Now, when you see the Stones, is there any part of you that thinks like, ah, I wish I was still kept the band together?

Yeah, but unfortunately, two of mine are dead. I know that. I know. It's not going to be possible. But no, I know what you mean. I know your question. You going to be possible. Yeah, I didn't. But no, I know what you mean. I know your question. You know, but I mean, just, there was a moment there. That's all I'm saying.

Yeah, yeah. Because obviously you still tour and everything, and you've got guys you've been playing with for longer than you played with the Beatles, really. That's true. Yeah, that's great. But is there, like, when you see the Stones now, do you, like, I guess my question is,

do you think, like um wow uh they're still doing those songs but or do you do you think are you happy for them like i don't know i'm just yeah you know i love the stones i've always loved them and i've always gone to see the shows through the years and uh i saw them not that long ago and they're the Stones right you know we were at that old cello thing together oh yeah so you know

so we went in a little bit early yeah to catch them and they're great guys you know I mean

we go back a long way we do yeah and there was never really rivalry but to your question yeah

hey you're kidding me it would be fantastic if we had the Beatles together to tour. Yeah. That would be nice. Wouldn't it? Oh, man.

I don't think it's going to happen. But do you talk to Ringo at all? No, I never do. Yeah, of course I do, yeah. Because you guys are the only guys that have the memories you have now, right? Yeah, that is sort of what's great about it, you know, and we do, you know, talk about all those memories.

Oh, I was at dinner the other few weeks ago in London, and he was there with his wife, Barbara, and we were talking, and everyone was like very lively, intelligent conversation, lots of jokes, and Tom Hanks was there with his wife, Rita. How does that happen? He's just hanging out too?

Yeah, come on, man. We hang out with the best. Okay. Tommy, come on, me. And Tom Hanks was there with his wife Rita How does that happen? He's just hanging out too? Come on man We hang out with the best Okay Tommy Tom and me Okay Alright Both got something wrong with our fingers

No So we were talking And it was a very scintillating conversation You know it was really nice And while I'm sitting across from Ringo And I sort of say Wow Me and this guy go back a long way.

And my wife, Nancy, said, is that it? Because, you know, they expected me to have a punchline round, by the way. But I was just, it hit me. Yeah. It hit me, you know. I said, well, I mean, what I mean is, you know, I was just some kid growing up in Liverpool. Then I got in this group and we went on tour and I'd never roomed with anyone.

I mean, we didn't go to college. So this was the first time. So I was like in a room with this guy who I scarcely knew who was Ringo. And so just the memories of all of that. I mean, I was just saying at this dinner i said he was an insomniac yeah he was and i could i could go to sleep but he was like up all night kind of thing you know yeah and i was just remembering silly little things like that that weren't particularly funny but they were cool memories for me do you like how many memories like you've been uh

a public person you know a famous person for like a long fucking time, man. It's true, man. Do you, do you like, do you have any memories like before? Do you remember the transition

where you're like, holy shit, I've got to learn how to do this. Be a famous person. Yeah. You do. I mean,

the good thing was that the Beatles didn't really get famous till we were about 20 yeah so i had 20 years in liverpool before that where i could not get arrested i couldn't get in a club i couldn't get a girlfriend nothing yeah so it happened right on time yeah i know i mean it was just It was real life You know And you just did things

That people did You know You travel by buses and stuff So Regular people stuff Normal people Imagine that You doing that stuff

Come on And the thing is You know I actually still do that That's what I heard You take the subway sometimes Yeah And does anyone bother you

People on subways Don't look at each other That's true I know Because they're all in screens These People on subways don't look at each other That's true I know because they're all in screens these days Anyways, they really don't notice me Yeah Why do you do that? Just to test it out?

No, no It's actually because I like it Oh I've always had this thing Even when we're famous I've always liked to kind of dip into real life Yeah You know, so I will walk to a place

or I'll drive myself to a place. So I listened to the new record, all of it. Oh. And it's a beautiful record. It's a Paul McCartney record. Okay. And I did a lot of research

for this conversation. I listened to every Beatles song and every Wing song. I've been up for weeks. But when you do a record because i've talked to like i've talked to like i've talked to keith i've talked to people like roger waters neil young and stuff and when you do a record like egypt station now do you do you think this this is the best work you're doing of your life right now or how do you look at it that's kind of difficult

you know because i was in the Beatles. Yeah, I know. I'm happy to hear that on some level. So you at some point had to learn how to compete with yourself and accept that. Yeah, exactly. And you know, when I do a live show, I do Beatles songs, and I know that's what the audience wants. Yeah. But I like making music. I like Beatles songs and I know that's what the audience wants. Yeah. You know, but I like making music. I like writing songs.

I like doing it. So I make a new album and yeah, I'm, I'm trying to do the best album I can make. Um, but in a live concert, as I say, you know,

I will say to the audience, sometimes I'll say, uh, we know what you like, you know, we know the songs you like yeah because like if we do an old beatle song the place lights up with all your phones yeah so it's like the galaxy you know stars so we do a new one it's a black hole so we know you know you know but um

i said well we're gonna do it anyway and we and do them. And you've got to remember, there are a lot of people in the audience who want to hear your new stuff. Yeah. But, you know, I've got kind of quite a range. I've got like a family audience. You've got little kids. Yeah. And they know the words better than I do. To the old songs.

To the old songs, yeah. So. What is that? I don't mind. This is a weird thing. Like my producer, he's got a kid who's like nine. And, you know, and the kid, he doesn't, no one had to sell him on the Beatles, but he loves the Beatles immediately. Do you know, was it in your mind that like, you know, not only are grownups going to like this and teenagers, but five-year-olds are going to love the Beatles?

I mean, what is that magic? I mean, can you explain it? You know, I asked myself that because it's a very interesting question. Why does it lasted? Because we thought we had 10 years top whack and then it would all just fade out. But it kept going. It kept coming. And only thing I can think is when I do the old songs, I find them very memorable.

I can remember all the words like that. Whereas the new songs, I've got to kind of think about it. I've got to learn them very memorable. You know, I can remember all the words like that. Yeah. Whereas the new songs, I've got to kind of think about it. I've got to learn them and stuff. I just think we hit some kind of a role. Clearly. Yeah. But, you know, it's just we were so sort of interested in making records

and so sort of privileged to make records that we always tried to make the next one better than the last one and i think in this in doing that the structure of them it's always very simple yeah the beatles things are hardly ever even the kind of complicated ones they're sort of simple they've got a i don't think there's any extra fat on them right but there but there's some complicated chords're gonna i don't think there's any extra fat on them right but but there's some complicated chords in there i can't play all of them yeah yeah i'll teach you later thank you but like they're the you created a sort of like the the type of pop that you guys were playing and with the chords you were playing was sort of new for the time the the melodies may

you may think they're simple and here i'm telling you, they're not, Paul. They are very complex and mystical. Oh. Yeah. Good. Because when you listen to this stuff, because when I listened to your first two solo albums recently, like yesterday, I listened to the first Beatles album that I had was the Beatles' second album. For some reason, I was obsessed with the song Roll Over Beethoven. I was obsessed with Chuck Berry.

But do you find that there are people that you respected and looked up to and revered when you were younger whose influence has really kind of moved all the way through all of your music? Yeah, I think so. Because I hear Little Richard still. Little Richard's always there with me.

Yeah. He's always there. Yeah, and that's the little scream with me. Yeah. He's always there. Yeah. And it's the little screamy voice. Yeah. That's something I just loved. I love his records, you know. And I wanted to do that.

So that gave me a sort of feature thing within the Beatles. Yeah. Because John couldn't do that. And I remember him saying to me, how'd you do that? How'd you do that? How'd you do that? I said, I don't know. I said,

I feel like it just comes out the top of my head. And he was, and then we had a session once where we were early, early days. I'm going, I'm about to do Kansas city. Yeah. So I'm on the mic.

I'm down there. We've done the backing. Now I'm going to do the, uh, the vocal and John's up in the control room and I'm going and I'm not making it I'm not getting it at all yeah so John comes down he says remember he says it comes out the top of your head I said okay that was it and that's the take you here so those guys like it like you said you tried to keep doing better records. Were you also like, it seems to me that what you were absorbing as a group was sort of happening at the time.

And you just kind of ran it through the Beatles mill and made it your own and made it better. Were you always aware of what was going on around you with the bands around you to the point where you were sort of like, yeah, we can do that better? Yeah, I think so. You know, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you keep up with what's going on. Yeah. I do these days still.

Well, just because it's interesting. Yeah. You know, it's not so much like I'm market researching who's doing what. It's just that I like to hear a new record, you know, so. So you hear the hits and you'd be like okay that's what's going on yeah and you know sometimes it it does uh inspire you to do something sometimes you get a little jealous so i remember with um the who i read once that uh

townsend yeah was talking in a newspaper he said we've just done the dirtiest, loudest, filthiest record ever. I went, whoa. We've got to do that. And we can get louder and dirtier and filthier. So I go into the studio and say this to the guys. We've got to do this.

And that was Hell to Skelter. That was the birth of that. Birth of filth. It was a big fuck filth It was a Big fuck you Pete Townsend Yeah man And I still don't know What track he was talking about

Oh boy Was that song Misunderstood by scary people And how Oh yeah Do you remember that Remember it could i forget it i mean you suddenly singled out as being the soundtrack to a murderer wait and uh it was pretty scary yeah because like you guys i mean i guess john got some flack early on with the jesus comment how did you guys what was the pr plan around reacting to manson

well it wasn't you know we didn't have it and for years i wouldn't do that song yeah just because the connection right you know it was just too sort of like i felt like if i did it it'd be a victory for him you know right and i thought no wait a minute i wrote it it's my record it's not his take it. And he's in jail anyway. He's dead now. Is he? Yeah, he died. Oh, he did, didn't he?

Yeah, so you can do the whole album again. Yeah. Fuck you. Fuck you. Was there a point in The Beatles where you just knew you won? Yeah. Yeah? Which album would that be where you're like we did it it's all over yeah i mean it didn't mean we were going to stop but yeah you definitely there was there was the uh beach boy beetle yeah incident yeah like which was like we were kind of on a par and we were loving

what they were doing. With Pet Sounds? Before Pet Sounds, we were already stealing stuff off them. All that, la, la, la, la, la, la. Oh, you like that?

They did that and we kind of pulled that, you know. But then we did, I think it was Rubber Soul and Brian was like, whoa! And he made Pet Sounds

and we were like, so we made sergeant pepper so that's interesting so you like that's what i said you listened to what other people did and then you kind of put it through the beatles mill and there you go and there it is like sort of elevated to another place but during that time uh was where did you have words with brian wilson um yeah I've always talked to Brian. I've been a huge fan. You know, if anyone ever asks me, what's your favorite song?

All they know is I say, God only knows. You know, it's just so mystically, magically put together. It's just a brilliant piece, you know. So I've always, he knows I'm a big fan of his. Yeah. And our birthdays are very similar I think he's June 16th

and I'm 18th or something we're very close couple of days so yeah no he knows I love him yeah okay

but so there was no tension between you know no no not really no not at all I remember coming over here

and there was this guy Derek Taylor yeah who was our publicity guy and there was this guy Derek Taylor who was our publicity guy and he was working in LA after he'd left us and he had something to do with Brian and I remember going over to Derek's house

one night and getting a bit stimulated yeah sure and we're loving it. Brian comes over. He's got these shades on. Yeah. And he's,

you know, he'd gone into his sort of nervousy phase. Yeah. You know, which was, which was.

Where are we now with him? I think he's good. He's touring. Good, good. He's good, you know. And nervousy is a nice word.

It's a diplomatic word. You know, I mean, but anyway, he was, he was still a little bit, he had these shades on. He said, do you mind if I keep these shades on, man? I said, Brian, it's your life, baby.

You keep the shades on. I love those shades. They look great. And he goes, do you mind if I play you a record? I go, no, that'd be great. He plays good vibrations. Like you've never heard it before. Yeah.

And you're in the room with Brian And he puts it on Oh yeah You know That was the first time you heard it It was magic Yeah It was like I was saying Ruby Tuesday

You know sometimes you get Those magic little moments Where nobody's heard it yet Yeah It's not released And someone's playing it for you And it's the creator Playing it for you Yeah That's pretty creator playing it for you yeah that's

pretty cool it's a great great moment speaking of that i talked to uh peter fondo recently and he claims that uh uh she said she said that there's a line in there that originated with him can you uh give that i think so yeah oh good that's more john's story oh well we can't talk to him but uh so we we can't get that one out no i know um they were hanging out with peter and he'd said i think he'd said i know what it feels like to be dead and john said nice yeah but um yeah so it was a pretty good line you know yeah So we That found its way Into that song So like right now

Like Beatles songs Are being played every day All over the world There's a part of the human brain I think that they have found That's just Just Beatles songs In most people

So that Like Do you feel Like when you're Out in the world Like My girlfriend's dad I think his spiritual system is based on the Beatles.

And I think a lot of people are like that. They just have this, you've created this entire universe. Do you feel, what's your responsibility to those people out in the world? Do you feel like when they come up to you, you're generally nice? Do you feel it's odd that people are so immersed in it? Someone told me today that today was the day you walked across Abbey Road. Did you know that? No.

Yeah, see? So you don't have a Google alert on Beatles trivia? No. No, I'm the person who knows the least of those. Well, luckily, a lot of people know them. Yeah. But, no, you know what it is? It's not so much a responsibility,

but I do feel proud that the whole beatles output was very positive you know there was really nothing that was a big downer there were kind of you know sensitive songs up songs down songs and so but basically we're saying imagine oh that's not beatles we were saying okay good record you like that record very good record okay you know i Beatles we were saying okay good record though you like that record very good record okay you know I mean

we were saying Strawberry Fields Forever we were saying Let It Be we were saying you know it's all pretty positive stuff

yeah make it better yeah and I so as far as responsibility is concerned I feel good about that yeah

and no and I'm also very proud you know you to remember, we were just kids who were nothing. Then four of us got together, kind of magical combination. How do we get together?

I don't know. We just were in different parts of Liverpool, and it was all various little stories that suddenly brought us together. But then we went and did this thing, and it was kind of magical. Yeah. You know, I, but I think that.

Yeah. I can look back on it now and think, wow, wait a minute. How did I meet John? Oh yeah. I remember that. Yeah. But it still is pretty amazing that we came together and, and did that music and then continued to be interested in it.

Yeah. And always wanted to make the next step. Nothing else sounds like you guys. No, it's interesting. And you know, the thing is, so looking back on it, as I can now do, as if I, you know, like out of body experience, I can look back on it. I think, you know, every single tune was different. look back on it i think you know every single tune was different so if we made um you know from me to you then we wanted to make strawberry fields we made strawberry fields we wanted to

make penny lane and so there's no formula and i figure it was because we were young guys and we would have just got bored to make the same record again and with so much so that i remember in the studio we used to say to ringo did you use that snare drum on the last song he'd go yeah i said we're gonna change it and you know now of course they set up for a whole drum kit and that's pretty much the whole album yeah and maybe one or two changes but we changed like every time and if if he didn't have another snare drum, we go, okay. That's it. That's the rhythm.

And that would be. Right. That'd be the offbeat. So the fact that we were like wanting to experiment and we were so interested and privileged at being allowed this studio time, you know, it was like, um, so every single track just was different. Yeah, I know.

It's insane. I listened to, uh, let it be twice the other day. Um, and I'm, I can't, uh,

who did that riff? You know, yeah. Who did that? Who made up that one? That was John's riff. Oh, yeah? Sorry.

I take a pony. It's great. Like that whole album. I don't mind that he made that up. No, I know. I don't know why I'm getting personal about it. Yeah, exactly. I'm glad you don't mind.

It would be uncomfortable if you were to be like, I've had enough of this. Please don't mention John. It's really embarrassing. No, but that's a great riff, you know, and that was a great song. That's probably one of the secrets. It never got boring.

Do you think that, like, whatever happened, you know, at the end of that band, do you feel ever looking back on it that you guys had done everything you could, that you'd pushed it out as far as you could go creatively, and it might have been the best thing? Well, we felt like that at the time, and that's why it ended. We felt we've come full circle.

We actually used that expression, full circle. But when you look at what we did after it, it could have worked. You know, like John's track might have been, imagine, you know, and I might have had live and let die. And you know, whatever, you know, there's certainly.

So you think about that? Yeah, I think so. But I mean, you can't do what ifs. No, of course not. You know, I can never do that. People say, what if the Beatles were still like, wow? I said, well,'t do what ifs. No, of course not. You know, I can never do that. People say, what if the Beatles were still, like, wow. I said, well, yeah, I get it. And I wish it were possible, but it isn't, you know. So it's like when my kids were growing up,

they'd say, well, what if we didn't? And I used to say, well, what if a television just fell on my head right now? Sure. So, I mean, oh, holy cow. So, I mean, you can't do that. No, right. It just doesn't work. But also, holy cow. So, I mean, you can't do that. No, right. It just doesn't work.

But also, when you start your first two albums, which were, like, I mean, they're amazing records because they're exactly what you talk about. Like, they're just, like, they're pieces that don't necessarily come together. They're all different. You did them all. And critically, it wasn't received tremendously well, but it seems like you were fairly prescient in just sort of that lo-fi sort of thing, which is very popular now. The whole model of that record has sort of taken off with a certain element of alternative music. You know, that's one of the great things is that you go through these critically damning periods, which I did after The Beatles. It kind of, it kind of had to happen.

Yeah. Because, you know, it's like, well, he's not as good as the Beatles. It was like an easy thing to say, you know, and believe me, I was aware of it.

It was like, holy cow, how am I going to follow that? But what's happening, as you say, is I get a lot of people now saying, man, do you know my favorite record?

Ram. Right. And I heard it the other day. Yeah. I'm going, it's not bad. It's kind of very sort of modern. Yeah. Crazy.

Who are those kind of people? Are they young people? Yeah. I think you sort of like those early McCartney records have been discovered by the sort of the hipster crew. Yeah. Yeah. And in terms of like, you know, taking chances and with recording a little bit,

a little rougher, but also just, you know, not being beholden to a particular structure. Yeah, that's true. And I mean, it's great for me because, you know, when you get criticized so badly, it's like, it affects you. You try not to let it affect you

and you tell everyone it doesn't affect you but somewhere you go you know that one didn't quite work but did you ever get to a place where you're like you know like just you know enough with the Beatles yeah yeah sure when I first went out on tour with wings yeah every promoters and you're gonna do do beetle stuff i said no i'm not gonna do any and then gradually once i felt we'd established wings i felt good about it so then i started creeping back in beetle things you know and now i don't care yeah what were the first ones what was like when you said like let's do a beetle song which one did you pick well they picked it

it was yesterday oh yeah everyone kind of wanted me to do yes and i just go out there by yourself you know the worst thing though about yesterday was yeah um this happened to us all of course and john's in new york and now the beat the beatles have broken up and john walks into like a bar yeah and the bar pianist sees him and goes do do do do do do and he's gone fuck you it's not my song that was the one huh

it had to be that one yeah but no it is a cool thing that as you say the generational

thing I remember being with a guy once and I was going on a bit about Sgt. Pepper I said well you know

it's great assuming he'd like me to give him a bit of history, you know, one-on-one. I said, well, Sergeant Pepper. And he said, well, I'm sorry, man. I've got to admit, he said, Band on the Run was my Sergeant Pepper. It was just a generational thing.

That was the record that he thought was... That was a great record. I don't know if you knew that. The Band on on the run record like i had when i was very young and for some reason i just thought that picasso's last words was like like the greatest song ever heard as a child like you know drink to me yeah i just and then 1985 is on there like i'm not going to just do a chris farley here but when when when you did that one, was that for you, did that really make, was that the best that Wings was on that record, do you think?

Yeah, I think so. At the time it was, yeah. Because we did a crazy thing with Wings because I'd finished with the Beatles and I had now the question of what am I going to do now? Yeah. So the first thing I did was the McCartney record, which was literally just me plugging into the back of a Studer 4 track and just recording anything came out.

After that, then I started to get a little bit more sophisticated. But, yeah, you know, it is good that nowadays the it's come around, you know, and people seem to think that, uh, what we did then is good. But it's, it's interesting too,

because with all the experimentation you did, which I think it was like, certainly with the, the McCartney record and Ram and, and even like, you know, some of the earlier wing stuff, wildlife,

right. Is that what that was called? Like, you know, it was, you know, it was kind of all over the place and you were taking chances that all the way through it, Wildlife, right? Is that what that was called? Like, you know, it was kind of all over the place and you were taking chances

that all the way through it, you're making hits. Yeah. Right? There's about a dozen or so wings hits. So like, did you know when you were recording those records, were you like, you know,

like, well, this one's the hit and that's going to sell the record and the rest we can just, you know, fuck around with and have a good time? I mean, I didn't always know that. It's not everyone in bands, they don't always know which the hit is.

You can make a hit, sometimes you just think, oh, it's okay. Get Back was one with the Beatles for me. I didn't reckon it at all. No? I just thought it was boring. I thought it was just a sort of jam.

I remember somebody, when they first heard it I love this greatest record I go oh okay and I got with it well that could have been the times changing too maybe the sort of elaborate pop thing was changing into something a little harder and just maybe people

were kind of getting a little less able to process pop and just like, get back. I got it. That's good. Perfect. Nailed it.

Well, Band on the Run, when I did that, we released it, and it came out and it did okay, and then it was doing this little thing of dropping back down the charts, and I thought, well, that's it. But I got a call from Al Corey of Capital who was like

a real red hot promotion guy and he got my number he said Paul Paul I've got to tell you you're going to let me work this record

I said well what do you mean I said it's done no no way he said you've got singles on there

you haven't released so it's going to go back up I'm going to take you right back up to number one. And I said, well, talk to me, you know.

Yeah. And he said, Jet, you haven't got that. So he named that. I unspotted that. Battle on the run itself, you've got to do it.

Yeah. So sometimes it takes other people to tell you what's good. Was Let Me Roll It on there too? Yeah. Oh, man. But but like that kind of that record industry doesn't you know and it's very exciting that we're here at capital you've been there so long this is your first record on capital in a long time right yeah now but that record

industry that guy making that call does that still exist today yeah i think it does yeah we had uh a meeting when i was playing the guys this. Egypt Station? Egypt Station, yeah. And there was one of the guys, and they all kind of pointed to him. He's the guy. Yeah.

So you still got them. You still got it, Capitol. What is the story about the band on the run? Where did you record that? Lagos, Nigeria. Yeah, what was, why? Okay, I don't know if you remember, but at the time it was kind of fashionable

for people not to record in their normal studios. So people were going places to record. Stones, it was tax reasons, but they were in the south of France Right It was tax reasons What's wrong with that? Yeah

So people were in different locations You could have went to Nashville You could have I did Yeah Actually from one of them yeah But I just wanted to sort of get out of there So I asked EMI Yeah Where they had studios from one of them yeah but i i just wanted to sort of get out of there and just so i asked emi yeah

where they had studios i knew they had a lot around the world and this great big list arrives so i'm getting the choice of china rio um lagos ah that was the one gotta do it you know african music it could be great um and it was great but uh they hadn't finished building the studio uh-huh you know it was really basic but uh the the vibe was great i was i was kind of pleased to be in africa but it was a crazy time yeah i didn't i didn't just go to the studio and make a record. Yeah. There's so many crazy little things.

You know Fela Kuti? Yeah. He was there, and when I arrived, first thing I see in the newspaper is, Paul McCartney comes to steal black man's music. I go, oh,

God, you know, as if I haven't got enough problems. So, I get his number,. I go, oh, God, you know. See if I haven't got enough problems. So I get his number and I ring him up. I say, fella, hello, Paul McCartney here. I hear you've said in the newspaper that I'm coming to steal your music. I said, I'm not.

Yeah, you know, you're coming over, I'm stealing black man's. I said, no, I'm not. I said, come over to the studio and I'll play you a couple of the things we're doing and you'll see. It's nothing like what you're doing and you'll see it's nothing like what you're doing and we're not gonna it's basically all songs I'd written outside anyway so he came

over with like 30 wives yeah whoa and a studio full of ganja yeah man I mean he was one wild cat. He used to have a bottle of whiskey in which was marinated a pound of pot. And a whiskey. Yeah. But he was, you know, we turned out to be real good friends. And he got it. He said, no, you're not doing that. Was that when Ginger Baker was down there? Yeah.

Ginger was his big friend, yeah. Yeah. Okay, I'll tell you the story doing that. Was that when Ginger Baker was down there? Yeah. Ginger was his big friend, yeah. Yeah. Okay, I'll tell you the story. Okay. Okay, now you brought Ginger up. We're going out. A fella invites us to his club which is outside Lagos

and it's called the African Shrine and so we go, yeah, okay. So there's just a few of us, little white people. I think about me, Linda, a couple of friends. And so we go out there. But I say, look, the thing is, let's not smoke any pot. Because it's pretty crazy. And we're out in the jungle.

And it's pitch black. And you know when they talk about the African experience, this was it. So I'm going, okay, everyone will agree, we're not going to smoke anything. So we're sitting there with a fella, hey man, what's going great?

You know, the love is great, you know, can't wait to hear the music and this guy comes up, he's crouching, he's one of fella's guys and he's got a packet of Rothman cigarettes and they're all joints. So he says, you want one of Fella's guys. Yeah. And he's got a packet of Rothman cigarettes. Yeah. And they're all joints. So he says,

you want one of these? I go, no thanks, man. It's cool. It's cool. And I carry on. Well,

then the guy carries on round and he gets to Ginger Baker. Yeah. And Ginger goes, yeah, man, yeah, sure.

And he's lighting up and Fella goes, Ginger Baker, the only man I know never refused a smoke. I go, aha. Yeah. Okay, I'll have I know never refuses smoke. Aha. Okay, I'll have one of those. Man, I've tripped out.

Yeah. I mean, it was so strong. I mean, it was stronger than anything I'd ever had. I don't know if there's something in it. It's a good night. You know what? In the end, it was a good night. Yeah, drugs can go either way. You know what? In the end, it was a good night. Yeah, drugs can go either way.

You know that? I do know that, yeah. You have experience, do you? Sure, sometimes the faces get evil, and then you've got to wait it out. And didn't the tapes of the record get stolen? Yeah, I put them all on a cassette, which is the way you used to demo

i had all the songs written they were all nicely ready to go yeah i would look at each one and then make the record right and um oh god i mean like i say it wasn't it wasn't just an ordinary trip to lagos yeah it was it was crazy so much so that when we got back I got a letter from EMI saying under no Circumstances go to Lagos. There's been an outbreak of cholera. Mm-hmm And that's the kind of place we were in, you know, but they when we were there they said There's this area which is like like a gated community Where all the sort of white people live, and we've been invited to dinner there,

and they said, whatever you do, don't walk back to your place. We had it like another place. So of course, what do we do? We walk back. So it's just me and Linda. She's got cameras off her. I've got like tapes, and I've got cassettes,

and I've got the hot cameras and everything and oh god so a cop we're walking along and it is black there's not a lot of street lighting but we think we know the way it's because of here and then you go down there I remember through walking along and a car pulls up with five guys in it. And he winds down the window. Now, I think he wants to give us a lift. So I say, you are just so cool.

I say, you want to give us a lift? I know you do, but we're walking, man. It's great. Thank you very much. Now, just go. Off you go. Thank you so much. That's so great.

And they go for about a hundred yards and stop. You can imagine the conversation. He said, anyway, boom, he winds down the window again and he says, are you a traveler?

Romany, I think they won't touch you. So I said, yeah, we're travelers. So they go on another 20 yards and now they've had enough now. So I said, yeah, we're travelers. So they go on another 20 yards and now they've had enough now. So the five of them all get out

and they're going to mug us. One of them's got a, little one's got a knife. So we are, ah, ah, ah, no,

you're not giving us a lift because the other time I said, get back in that car. You're just too cool. Get in. I push him in the car. Like, anyway,

now there's five of them around us. And yeah, they were mugging us. And Linda, beautiful, she's screaming, what do you want? What do you want? What do you want? And they're going, money, money, money. Camera, camera.

So we unload it all. We give them everything. And in that, the cassettes go. There's my demos, which to me is precious. To them, I bet they re-recorded over it. What is this? You know, rubbish. There's some African stuff going.

And so, yeah, they took everything. And then they're still screaming. She said, don't touch him. Don't touch him. He's a musician. That ought to do it. Like, that's going to make some difference. You know, yeah, you African guys, you love musicians.

So, you know, let him off. Anyway, they went, and we just, I said, right, we walk fast. But luckily I remembered it all, so we still could do it. And we got to the studio, and these were African guys running the studio. And one of the guys, he said, you're lucky. You're lucky they didn't kill you. They figured you wouldn't recognize them again. So you were lucky.

Well, that was a risky album to make, it sounds like. Really, man, honestly. So let's talk about the new record, because there are things that you do on it that are sort of a recurring theme that like I just want to know when it started and what the choices are on that.

Like you do at the beginning sort of like that thing where it's just sort of sound, it's a station sound and then there's sort of some sound underneath that and it's just for 45 seconds and then you begin

the album proper and then at the end the sound comes back and then you kind of guitar into another song but what are these bookends and what was the because you've done that a lot like on not a lot we've done it on sergeant pepper sergeant pepper anything else like it seems to me that there's bookends on the second mccartney rec not on ram there's like a a lick or a repetition of a song or maybe it's on wildlife at the end yeah no you're right a little repetition of the song

um yeah you know it just seemed like a good idea at the time. So there's no big concept in mind where you're like, No, not really. Tie it all together? No, what happened is I had this painting that is on the cover that I did quite a while ago. And I was looking at it and I'd named it Egypt Station. Right.

So I thought, you know, that's quite a good title. Yeah. I quite like that just as a title. So it's just, there's no mystery to it. Well, the minute we got Station, I then said, you know what, we could make a station and we could do that. Then all the songs can be different stations.

Oh, so that was... So we decided to sort of bring it back. The concept thing came later. Oh, there is a concept record after all. There is. The return of the concept record. But there was a lot of records you did that were sort of had these, like the second side of Abbey Road,

and then it seems like there was some stuff with wings that had long pieces that have several different songs within them. And I don't know if that's a concept record but that i seem it's sort of unique to you it seems like is one that you were the first guy to really do that i'm not sure i was i think there were a couple of people in england doing that there was a thing a ballad of a teenage opera and this guy had a little hit with it and he was kind of operatic he had little episodes i think that's my maybe where that idea came from and townsend picked it up yeah and he did some stuff quadrophenia and stuff he

started to get a bit like that but it's a form i've always liked yeah because it's fun to do yeah and you've got to figure out how to get from this to this and we did it with the beatles and what about like musical theater? It seems like there's so many songs, and I think it's getting back to this, the kids thing, that have a sort of, you write them theatrically and they have a sort of jaunt to them that seems almost like they could be in musicals. Was that something that influenced you ever? No, not really. But I know what you mean. I'd listen to some of the things on the album the

track called despite repeated warnings yeah that is something that you could almost see the cast of limb is yeah doing kind of thing it would work i think but just in general you never had i don't i don't think of it as that no and like it seems like on this record too that like there's points when people write songs where like uh like there's points when people write songs where like uh like there's the song i don't know or the song happy with you where like i'm i'm wondering like is paul okay you know there's like you know i was living a certain way and then you came along and then like or or that you know you're sort of exist no i know what you mean yeah i i thought that because you know you think about your own story. What are people going to think?

And I thought that. Yeah. You know, hey, you know, I'm kind of burying my soul a bit on, I don't know. But then I thought, wait a minute. It is you. It is me. Yeah. But then I thought, I mean, you know, yesterday all my trouble seemed so far away.

Now it looks as though they're here to stay. Yeah. That's pretty gloomy. Yeah. But, you know, that didn't, though they're here to stay. That's pretty gloomy. Yeah. But you know, that didn't, nobody thought, is he okay?

That's true. You know, but I know what you mean. Were you okay then? I was okay. Okay. But am I now? I don't know.

Yeah, I am. Now, you know, come on, man. In the end, songs.

No, it's a song. You know, it's like, Dickens. Yeah. He's writing about little songs. No, it's a song. It's like Dickens. He's writing about little Dorrit, but he's not a little girl. No, I know. He's a big man with a beard.

Yeah, I understand that. I just sometimes when I'm listening to songs, when I'm walking into the words, I assume that the guy who wrote them is going through this stuff. Yeah, well, I don't know. That song was inspired by a sort of moment that can happen in life. You know, I mean, it's easy to kind of pretend just everything's lovely and hunky-dory,

but I don't think anyone's life is like that. Sure. So, you know, there's always arguments. You know, I've got kids and grandkids. How many grandkids now? I've got eight grandkids. Wow. Give itkids. Wow. Give it up.

Yeah. And I had nothing to do with it. You got the ball rolling. I did, yeah. But, you know, in families, there's got to always be a moment where something goes wrong, somebody doesn't agree with you or whatever. And this was one of those moments. I can't remember what the moment was now, but I was a bit, and the great thing about

songs is you can therapy your way out of it by writing a song. It's like, it's a really nice aspect of songwriting. And we'd always known that for years. You know, when John's writing, he's a real nowhere man. He's talking about himself and how he was feeling. He was feeling like a nowhere man.

But he wasn't a nowhere man, but by the time he'd written that and we made the record, he felt better. It actually, you know, I think comedians do that too. They talk about the crappiest things in their life. Oh, yeah.

They're kind of working through it. Sure. They just drag audiences through their problems. Yeah. And everyone laughs at them. Exactly. It's perfect. We don't care.

If you walk away going like, I better keep these problems. Yeah. It doesn't necessarily work for them. Oh, you know, I don't know where it did come from that, you know, where I was really feeling like I got crows out my window, I got on my door right um but what does it happen how does it happen for you what is what is the process of songwriting because there's one on there the one uh do it now it's almost like a pep talk like it's almost motivational yeah well do it now was an expression my dad had in fact you know i often think of things he said and they

often get in songs yeah yeah i used to say put it there if it weighs a ton it's just these old expressions you know people used to say so i wrote a song called put it there do it now he used to say you said do it now d-i-n yeah which i always thought was a great name for a record label. Din? Yeah, sure. Let's do it. Let's do it. It's a noise. But anyway, so that was it.

Do it now. So I thought, that's a good idea, actually. Do it now. Like you say, it's an advice thing, you know. So I just made it into a song and kind of fictionalized it, but kept the idea of do it now while the vision's still clear, while you're feeling still here. Come on of do it now while the vision's still clear, while you're feeling still here. Come on, do it now. The thing is, it's not a responsibility so much,

but as a songwriter, you do realize that people are going to listen to this, and if you can reach someone with something good, with a good bit of advice, that's kind of valuable. Obviously, you have to make a good song of it.'s kind of valuable obviously you have to make a good song of it but you know so so i i do that and uh that is one of the fabulous things when you um someone will come up to me in the street and say something like you know my my kid had cancer but they just listened to beatles music all the time and he recovered. And you go, wow. I mean, that was not a bonus we ever expected.

But it sure is fantastic. Well, I think everybody is, you know, Beatles songs have gotten all of us through something. That's for sure. Yeah, you know. Yeah, yeah. So I'm very proud of that and you kind of know that. Yeah.

So if I write a new song and it's going that way, I won't resist it. Right. I just sort of think, yeah, there could be someone. I mean, there's a song on there

called Who Cares? Yeah. Which is about, you know, have you ever been bullied? Right. And I know there's millions of people out there who have.

So in my mind, I'm thinking of, you know, a teenage girl somewhere who's being cyber bullied. Yeah. And I'm saying, have you ever been hurt by the words people say? Da-da-da-da- being cyber bullied. Yeah. And I'm saying, have you ever been hurt by the words people say?

Yeah. Well, don't worry. Who cares what the idiots say? And it comes into a song that you do and you enjoy doing, but yeah, there's, there's a message and you hope it means something to someone and gets them

out of a bad period. Makes them feel less alone, I think is also a good thing. And there's another song on there that's sort of like a little, it's not quite political, but it's just sort of, it's about, what's the one about the leader who doesn't know where he's going? That's Despite Repeated Warnings. Yeah, Despite Repeated Warnings. Yeah.

Yeah, that's sort of an almost hopeful apocalyptic song. Yeah. You know. Yeah, that's sort of an almost hopeful apocalyptic song. Well, you know, I mean, when you read that someone's saying that climate change is a hoax. Yeah. What about those people? What has to happen? What about those? You know, it's like, and then you're reading about the heat waves everywhere, the fires, the floods.

I think, well, I don't think it's a hoax. And I think anyone who just blatantly just goes, yeah, it's a hoax, hasn't got it right. So that's what I was writing about. So despite repeated warnings, this captain is going to take this boat onto the rocks. And, you know, let's try and stop him. Yeah. Well, we're going to try. Yeah.

Exactly. It's pretty scary Are you still vegetarian? Yeah Yeah And I always will be Yeah People sometimes say to me Don't you miss the odd sausage?

Uh huh The odd sausage I don't I mean I hate to say These days there's Really good Right You've seen all the advances

In vegetarian cuisine That must have been We were part of it, man. No, it's true, we were. Because I started being vegetarian in England about 40 years ago. And then you really couldn't get anything. I remember we were going up

a motorway, a freeway, and they have these stops where you can pull off and get petrol and food. And we pulled in, it was a ham sandwich and a this sandwich and a bologna. It was a ham sandwich and a there sandwich and there was a bologna. There was nothing. We said, there's nothing.

Wouldn't it be great if there was like a veggie option or something we could get? So that started us thinking about it. You're at the cutting edge. Cutting edge. And now you can go, like there's a fancy restaurant there,

Crossroads, where you can get like, you've been there? There's millions of them. Yeah. And they're good? There's millions of them. Yeah. And they're good. That's the great thing.

You know, they taste good. Yeah. So I love it. I feel very good about that. Good. Here's the other question, and then we can kind of wrap it up or move towards that. So what is it about groups? Because it seems like, you know, you did a couple of half, they were solo records, but

you like being in a band, don't you? Yeah. Because you've been with these guys touring for over 12 years. Yeah. You'd rather have a band than just... Yeah, you know, I think there's something great about the camaraderie, a team. Yeah. I've always liked that.

Yeah. And it's just nice to kind of do things with people. I sometimes feel sorry for the solo star. Yeah. with people. I sometimes feel sorry for the solo star. Yeah. Who's like great

and he's very famous but he's going back, you know, to his hotel room and there's like nobody there. Mind you, my band don't live

in my hotel room. Right. But you can pat each other on the back. We can have, yeah. We have a lot of fun after the show.

We do a thing called The Runner where we kind of get off. We get out before our crowd does. Oh yeah. So, you know, we hop on a bus and then it's time for a drink a little bite and we talk about things you know we and we yeah debrief and talk about the show and stuff and that's great yeah i love that and when you

play like when you play the beatle songs like they're like which ones, like, continually still move you? I think Let It Be and I think Hey Jude. Yeah. Hey Jude, the great thing is at the end of it, you get all these people and it may be 50,000 people and it's real sense of community. Yeah. And, you know, in these sense of community. And you know,

in these days when people are, you know, despairing of this and that, I get letters and people have heard something or been to a concert. Oh man,

I was feeling so bad but then I went to the concert. Yeah. And it just is great to be the kind of MC. Yeah. Say, now you. No. saying now you yeah and you just see them all looking at each other and say it can be very emotional you know i i love it and i feel very proud that i kind of come up with that i remember once with let it be which is the other one um i was doing a song i was

playing it in a concert, and I think it was South America. Yeah. And there's this very handsome man in front row kind of thing, a tall man, and he's standing with his very, he's very dark haired and dark beard. And there's a very beautiful girl with him

who kind of was obviously his daughter. And she's looking up to his daughter and she's looking up to him and he's looking down at her and they're taking it and they singing let it be I'm singing this and I'm welling up because there's there is like real moment of people just ah it means something I see any and his you know he's relating to his daughter I know how important all that is. So it's hard to get through the song. But those are great moments.

Yeah, and they still happen. Yeah. It's great. It's great talking to you, Paul. Nice one, Mark. Thank you. It was very easy. Paul McCartney, ladies and gentlemen.

Thank you, everyone. Thank you, everyone. Wow. Man, what a day. What an hour. What a life I'm living. Paul McCartney. Again, his new album is Egypt Station. Comes out tomorrow, September 7th.

And also, if you're not familiar with the Beatles, you might want to pick up... I'm not even going to recommend you a record. Just look at the haircuts and decide which era looks good to you. All right? Also, folks, go to WTFpod.com to get your tour dates for me. You can buy a new t-shirt for you or a gift. And you can sign up for WTF Premium to get all 900 plus episodes

which has episodes like Keith Richards, Bruce Springsteen, Neil Young to stay in some generational mode here with musicians. But yeah man. Yeah. Wow. Bucket list shit. Boomer lives. It's a night for the whole family.

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