WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 958 - Kurt Vile

Episode Date: October 11, 2018

Recording artist Kurt Vile and Marc like a lot of the same stuff: Tom Scharpling, the blues, Randy Newman, Neil Young, flat driveways. They get to share their mutual admiration of these things while also talking about Kurt's unique upbringing with nine siblings in Philadelphia and the banjo that led to his development as a musician. In his early 20s, Kurt had a job driving a forklift and in his free time he was making home recordings, which eventually became the tracks on his first album. They also get into Kurt's time with The War on Drugs, his band The Violators and his various side projects. This episode is sponsored by SimpliSafe and Smart Nora. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18-plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucksters what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it how's it going i want to uh to to put this out there because i think you should know our book waiting for the punch comes out in paperback next week you can go to markmarrenbook.com or click on the book link at wtfpod.com to pre-order a copy or just get it when it comes

out next tuesday october 16th waiting for the punch and paperback you've been waiting for waiting for the punch and paperback so the waiting is over see that's what i should have done that's that should have been the whole thing there's no more waiting for waiting for the punch you just have to wait until next tuesday october 16th if you don't want to pre-order it a lot of ways I could have handled that but I uh I chose the straight read as they say in the in the business in the business of broadcasting so what's happening what have I got to tell you the um today on the show Kurt Vile is here he's got a new record coming out I like Kurt Vile had an opportunity to talk to him we have common friends his new album bottle in comes out this friday october 12th get it wherever you get music kurt vile puts out a lot of records and he's uh he's

got a unique thing going he always sounds like him the production sounds like him the music sounds like him his voice sounds like him he sounds like him that's uh that's not nothing you don't want to listen to something go like this sounds like another guy. And this sounds kind of like, hey, I can hear that other guy in this guy's music. Nope. Kurt Vile sounds like Kurt Vile. And he's a Philly guy. He's like a Philly guy, but he's a, what would you call it? He's not a hard-edged Philly guy.

He's the other end of the spectrum. There's a lot of type of Philly dudes, and Kurt, he's of the mellow breed of Philly, which is a rare breed in Philly. And I'm not saying anything negative about Philly. I don't know how many Philly meatheads really listen to this show, but maybe the softer meatheads, maybe the turkey meatheads, perhaps. I don't know. But Philly is its own animal. It's its own place. It's its own time zone.

It's its own planet, man. But Kurt comes from there, and you can hear it a little bit uh but we had a nice talk i was glad he came by speaking of kurt vile why don't i just talk about music for a few minutes let's let's just focus in on uh i'm not maybe what i've been listening to what are you listening to what are you listening to anything exciting i just got a copy mark arm from mud honey sent me a copy of the new mud honey record i believe it's called digital garbage now mud honey it's got a lot of records out there was a period in time where they were putting out a record every five minutes and they're always good they're always raw they're always stooges-y stooges-ish but uh uniquely mud honey nice kind of you know raunchy guitars mark scream singing yeah and he uh he sent me one and i haven't heard a mud honey record in i feels like years

and i gotta tell you it's a good record i've only listened to side one and i'm like this is fucking mud honey record top-notch mud honey right here so i've been listening to that i listened to curve viles new record i've been listening to uh going back and listening to some wilco because i you know i had to do some research enough said enough said not saying anything else had to kind of rejigger the the wilco knob in my brain. Had to open that portal back up and play that out. Been listening to some Albert Eiler in the Jazz Zone. That new John Coltrane record that was never issued. That double album. Man, that fucking thing is sweet.

What else I've been doing? I went to see the MC5, the current lineup of the MC55 as you might know uh not many are left i think wayne kramer the guitar player who i've had on the show here he's left uh there's a drummer left but he's not playing with them uh regularly but wayne has pulled together the band i don't know i saw a benefit here at the ford theater wayne asked me to come and i gotta say it was a pretty fucking amazing show now i got there there was three bands i got there in the middle of the first band i don't even know who it was sadly but the second band holy shit it's a band called star craw, and it left a lasting impression on me.

I'm not sure if it's the right one. I don't know, man. It's heavy, but it's sort of like it's kind of punky, but kind of hard rocky. It's a trio behind a lead singer. And this woman, Arrow DeWild. Man, it was raw shit, man. She she just jerking around up there jumping around falling down looked like she was hurting herself and uh it had an effect i mean i'm gonna go out and buy the records i don't know if that was the way it was supposed to happen but uh it was something

to watch man it was it was um it was you know it was confrontational it was good man it was good and it was a it made a lasting impression on me that i will tell you the band star crawler but then the mc5 so the current lineup um is pretty amazing all right so wayne kramer who's been on the show he got until he texted me he said i should come so i you know i'm like okay i'm gonna come i've never been to the ford theater it's this sweet little amphitheater that's tucked away across the way from the hollywood bowl somewhere off kawanga there and only seats about 1200 it's like a miniature red rocks it's this fucking sweet venue i don't know why i've never been there but why because i hardly ever go out to see live music. So the MC5 at this point is Wayne,

the original guitar player of the MC5, Kim Thiel from Soundgarden, Brendan Canty on drums from Fugazi, Doug Pinnock on bass, and I guess I don't know the band King's X, but that's who he's from. And this guy singing, Marcus Durant, from a band

called Zen Gorilla, looked so much and sounded so much like Rob Tyner, the original guy. I mean, I don't know that they sounded a lot alike, but there's something about the way that Marcus Durant sort of held himself up there that reminded me of footage I had seen of Rob Tyner. Now, obviously, Sonic Smith, Sonic Fred Smith has passed away. So, Thiel is kind of filling that second guitar zone. But let me tell you who else was there because it was pretty exciting.

Matt Cameron from Soundgarden was the second drummer on the show I saw. And Greg Dooley came out from Afghan Wigs and sang a tune, I think just one. And Duff from Guns N' Roses came out and played guitar on a couple. But the thing that amazed me most about seeing the MC5 at this point, because a lot of times you go to stuff like that where there's not many of the original members of the band because they're old or some of them are dead or they're not together anymore.

or some of them are dead or they're not together anymore. You just think that it's not going to be good or it's going to be disappointing or it's going to be a little sad. But I got to be honest with you, it's not like going to see Journey with the new guy. It's not like going to see some band from the 70s or 80s with a few hits that you remember. I mean, the MC5 was this fucking seminal sound. It was this Detroit sound that was an amalgamation.

It was a part of that Detroit momentum. And it was a defining sound of like the Stooges, of punk rock. It was just those few MC5 records. Nothing sounds like that. And it wasn't hits. It wasn't about the hits. It was about the time. it was about the insanity it was about the chaos uh it was about that that that sort of rendition mid to late 60s i guess it was of that detroit breakdown man and you know how are you going to

capture that you know because kim thiel you know is a fairly compressed player like you know he's got a very specific tone he's a great player uh and he's holding up that end but i happen to be sitting right up front and i'm right in front of fucking wayne i'd moved down my seats were way back i went over there with my buddy adam so i was like almost inside the mixer like i i was in i couldn't i was hearing what was coming out of the monitors and the amps more than i was hearing what was being you know broadcast or put out there through the pa so i'm hearing wayne and i guess my point is is that when those songs if you honor those songs and the spirit of those songs and the heart of those songs that that mc5 stuff i mean it it's it was

electrifying man and i think that part, it was electrifying, man. And I think that part of it was because the original guitar guy was playing it. I mean, Wayne was playing it, and he's specifically Wayne. It's amazing how tone just stays with somebody. And it's not about boxes. It's not about pedals. It's not about amps. It's about Wayne's fingers and Wayne's voice.

So everybody was sort of following Wayne and the, and all those songs, all the fucking songs, the MC five songs, that is what they played. It sounded great. And it rocked. There was no point where you're like, well, there's a little sad. This is a little weird or it's too bad that the rest of them aren't here. It was just right on the fucking money. And they even did some loopy ass hardcore hippie art you know jazz experimental jamming and uh and that was even okay didn't go on too long it wasn't like you know it wasn't like seeing a dead show and it was space and it was time to take a bathroom break then a few horns came out at some point i don't know. I guess what I was sort of impressed with was just that

Kramer's spirit, you know, and he does a lot of great stuff for Jail Guitar Doors. It's his foundation for, you know, getting musical instruments into the prison system. And I think some of the horn players were ex-cons and there was a guy who came and said a few words before the show, who was out of prison. It's very helpful. But there's something about Wayne's spirit that still comes through that guitar. I mean, Wayne's in his 60s, man. And I'm using the word man a lot

because I guess I'm talking about the MC5, man. But, you know, he's doing, if you've seen old footage of the MC5, him swinging that guitar up and jumping around. It's like, you know, little old Wayne Kramer is still swinging that guitar up and playing it straight up and like he's all in and it was uh and it was electrifying and i'm not saying this is some weird baby boomer guy who remembers the mc5 i'm i'm 55 i you know i was i was not conscious i didn't come to the mc5 till the last decade or so and uh i just gotta, maybe it's the infusion of all that other amazing talent on stage, amazing musicians who who were there to honor that music. But it's very specific. I had a great time. Wasn't too long. Nothing dragged on. You know, it was tight. They went from one song to the other. No dicking around and uh at the end you're like

fuck yeah no uncores gotta respect no encore on some level i did i don't know if they ran out of time or if it's an actual intention but i was like no that was the show that was the show why fuck with us why hold out a couple just because it's the form that's the acceptable way to play a concert they're done they're done lights up curvil is here and he's a younger man younger man than i and i like talking to these uh these youngsters about their music these kids about their musical stylings but he's a friend of my friend tom sharplings oh shit wait a minute before i forget i want to bring this up again i am going to be hosting an event called across the great divide it's a benefit concert for the americana music association

and the blues foundation it's going to be john prine bob weir lucinda williams leanne womack doyle bramhall the second shamika copeland larkinarkin Poe, Joe Lewis Walker, Tash Neal, and I think just announced, the special guest Slash is going to be there. And if my picking finger is good, Jimmy Vivino is the musical director, maybe I will play a song. Is that precocious of me

to even think that I may play a tune with the band on a night is that is that is that um precocious of me to uh to even think that i may play a tune with the band on a night like that hey man blues is simple blues is simple it's about the feel it's about the tone man wayne kramer shot that mc5 tone right through that stratocaster into my brain the other night but i'm bringing up i'm i'm supposed to be setting up kurt vile here but this is all music related and i don't know why i'm talking like a early 70s jacked up jock and i mean dj when i say that so let's let's talk about kurt vile he has many records out and i started getting them a few years ago and i the like i said earlier you you drop that needle in the groove and it's clearly Kurt Weill. And that's a beautiful thing.

His new record, Bottle In, comes out this Friday, October 12th. And this is me talking to Philly's own Kurt Weill. Are you self-employed? Don't think you need business insurance? Think again. Business insurance from Zensurance is a no-brainer for every business owner because it provides peace of mind. A lot can go wrong. A fire, cyber attack, stolen equipment, or an unhappy customer suing you. That's why you need insurance.

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To show your true heart just to risk your life when i die here you'll never leave japan alive fx's shogun a new original series streaming february 27th exclusively on disney plus 18 plus subscription required t's and c's apply So wait, so your wife is full on... She goes to school to be an... Or takes classes to be an Ayurvedic consultant. Oh, really? Yes, really. So that's her trip?

Well, she's... I mean mean she's a she's smart yeah she uh she was pre-med you know went went to dartmouth and then she just changed it all then she's taught she's like fuck western medicine yeah yeah i'm going going the other way well yeah obviously it's not you don't sometimes you really do need it but uh but yeah i mean it's just like anything else it's's like, see those commercials? Which ones? I don't know. Advertising any medicine under the sun.

And the side effects are just relentless. Yeah. You're like, why would I take that? It sounds like I'm going to have a whole new set of problems. Maybe. Probably. Definitely. Maybe.

I don't know. You know, like, it's weird. I take blood cholesterol medicine. And I don't know. You know, like, it's weird. I got it. Like, I take blood cholesterol medicine. And I don't know. You know, it's weird that it's our natural aversion to be like, oh, fuck that. Fuck medicine. No one wants to be sick, you know? Yeah.

Sometimes you're sort of like, well, I guess I got to take it. But there are side effects, but I haven't gotten it yet. Who knows? How long is life really, Kurt? I don't know. How old are you? 54. I'm right behind you.

Yeah? Yeah. It's sort of like, well, what if down the line there are side effects? I'm like, well, I'll risk it. I was more talking about those blatantly. Which ones? Yeah. I don't know.

There's any late night commercial where there's these new medicines all the time. It's like, that is not. The jellyfish one. Remember the one that's like. If you get to with that side of thoughts, like. Oh, yeah. Contact. If your stomach expands, fills with blueberry, like Willy Wonka.

Yeah, yeah. If you turn into a giant blueberry... Yeah. Stop taking immediately. Yeah. Something's wrong. The one I can't get out of my head, but I can't remember what medicine is, is the ones like from a thing found in jellyfish.

It's from the brain for the memory. And I always think that's such a weird angle. Like why would jellyfish, it's found in jellyfish. Why would that be appealing? But it is sort of, isn't it? That must be deep shit if it's in jellyfish. Yeah. So do you live out here or you don't?

No, I live in Philly. I'm from Philly and I live there still. Oh, really? Someone told me you had a place out here. You don't, huh, I live in Philly. I'm from Philly and I live there still. Oh, really? Someone told me you had a place out here. You don't, huh? I come out a lot, but I don't have a place. No? Nope.

Philadelphia. Yeah. I like Philly. Yeah. I do. Like, I don't know it as well as I should, but like the times I've gone and hung out there and the people I know from there, they're good people. They got an edge to them.

Yeah. You know? Definitely. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. You don't strike me as like the Philly kind of fuck you Philly guy. Oh, but I can be. Yeah, didn't you? I can.

Oh, yeah. You keep that under wraps? No. You're hiding? No. We literally just met. Yeah. You're not going to do it right away?

I was on the phone when you came out and I was like, this is not the way. I was actually real excited to meet you. Yeah. You're not going to do it right away. I was on the phone when you came out, and I was like, this is not the way. I was actually real excited to meet you. Yeah. And then I thought you were making a good joke. You're like, what's in that one? No. It's a last minute. It's a guitar.

It's shaped like a guitar. He's like, what's in that one? You said a guitar. I was actually being more sort of like trying to impress you. I'm like, what guitar is in there? What's in that one? Is that a J45? A guitar. Is that a... That's some kind of double O, Martin. Yeah? You like that one? Folk Festival Anniversary Edition. Where'd you get that? Philadelphia Folk Festival Anniversary Edition. Really? From Vintage Instruments

in Philly. So you grew up in Philly? Like in the city? Yeah, I grew up in Lansdowne, which is like the suburb directly outside of West Philly. Yeah. And you can't leave the place. You love the place. I do. In fact, not only that, but we moved in 2003. Yeah. We moved to Northern Liberties and everybody's in like Fishtown. First it was Northern Liberties and then they moved up to Fishtown. Who's everybody? Well, okay, everybody in my relatively small circle of like music slash artist community. Oh, yeah? They moved up to where? Fishtown and stuff.

But anyway, I've moved since then, but I still have my little house in Northern Liberties. And I go in there and work. And now I live out in Mount Airy. Mount Airy? Yeah. Where's that? It's like german town yeah it's a german town then there's mount airy then there's chestnut hill and i'm on west in west mount airy there's like woods out there there's a you know parking is pretty bad in northern liberty so yeah i have a driveway i live kind of next to i live next to the woods that's nice yeah. Yeah, I got kids. So, you know, we get to be able to park.

How many kids? Two. Yeah? How old are they? They are eight and five going on six. So you're kind of, that's nice. And you've been married a long time? Yeah.

And it's just like locked in. You're kind of a family guy. Yep. Just like the TV show. Yeah. Just like the cartoon. I hope that not exactly like that no i was i meant i meant to tell you yeah i'm i'm one of my best buddies that i admired is your friend tom sharpling i was just gonna bring him up oh did you know okay well no i see he likes you too

like you guys are pals yeah i mean we're past we're past that. Yeah. Yeah. No, he's great. He's so funny. He's going to be in town this week. Yeah. We're missing each other like that. It'd be fun to see him out here. Him and, I did see one of his other buddies recently on the stage. Who's that?

Andy Kindler. Andy? Yeah. Yeah. I just saw him on stage too. I got a lot of, like, yeah, that's why. I love the Tom thing. I admire him.

He's my buddy. And it's like the ultimate platform. Not unlike this, but I know him well. Yeah. So you can just be as stupid as possible and just keep talking. To have a friend to give you that. Yeah. And he just bullshits right back.

Oh, yeah. He's so fucking funny, man. Yeah. How'd you meet him i met him i'm well i heard him first on those the gorsh you know like all his old yeah his calls with john worcester yeah and then i my band kurt vile and the violators we opened like my first matter my album came out on matador childish prodigy in 2009 and then i was offered to open for big star at the masonic temple and uh and ended up being big star's last show ever which is crazy wow but like big star like original lineup yeah yeah yeah and then like a year later he he died he died but anyway tom was there yeah and somebody pointed out that tom

was there so me and my bandmate adam yeah at the time he was in how do you say his last name adams oh well grand ducile is his like stage grand ducile yeah that's his stage name i mean okay well i don't mean to say it's a stage name he uses that but it's it's not his real name yeah but anyway yeah me and him we got obsessed with all his calls and yeah he you know he's like we would just impersonate the hell out of it and i was chasing His real name. Yeah. But anyway, yeah, me and him, we got obsessed with all his calls. Yeah. You know, he's like, we would just impersonate the hell out of it. And I was chasing him around. We were drunk.

And he was like looking at us back, you know, walking away. What do you want from me? He was like, thank you. I'm very flattered. Thank you. Just impersonating everything. But he thought for sure we were making fun of him. Yeah. Because that's kind of what I like to do is just impersonate.

Not like, here is my impersonation. Yeah, right, right. But just a natural mimic. Yeah. Yeah. So then you guys become friends after that? Definitely. Yeah.

And you do a show? You used to do a show? I've been on a show multiple times. I can't wait to go back. He directed my KV Crimes video a couple albums ago. Uh-huh. Which album? Waking on a Pretty Day. back he directed my kv crimes video a couple albums ago uh-huh um which album uh waking on a pretty day that's a good record thanks yeah i i listened to like i went all the way back today

like i have i think i have the last three albums or four albums and i listened to i went and listened to constant hit maker so let's like let's go back to so when did you start with the music you grew up in this outside of Philly and you come from a musical family yeah we are a musical family a lot of people play how many people in the family?

actually I'm one of ten children so I have nine siblings do you know them all? yeah because they're all from the same parents. Yeah. What's in that one? But like I said, where do you come in the lineup?

I'm the oldest son. Uh-huh. I have two older sisters, but it's an even split. It's five boys and five girls. That's crazy. It's like, it's a lot of kids, man. I know. Is that a Catholic thing?

They're like, not Catholic, but they are like religious. Yeah? Like what strand? Some kind of Christian strand, I guess. Oh, yeah. I mean, I know. I don't know. I think they don't have like a...

No. But was it like, are you off the grid people? Are you living in a farmhouse? No, we lived in Lansdowne. We lived in a twin house. With 10 kids? All the boys in one room, two bunk beds. Yeah.

And the girls in the other room, and you just... Yeah. I mean, it was tight. Yeah. It was a lot of fights. And, like, we're all, nobody, you know, no hard feelings. In fact, the one that I didn't get along with the most, I'm probably, I see him the most now.

Oh, yeah? Younger brother? Yeah, my brother Paul. I haven't seen him lately, but he's, you know, he's a character. Yeah? A Philly character? Yeah, I guess. Yeah?

There is a specific thing. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah. You know what I mean? There's like a specific thing that happens in Philly and in Jersey. It's a certain type of dude that only happens in those two places. Yeah, well, I'm just so glad because all these people now, you know, fleeing New York. Yeah.

Defeated. I never had to go there to begin with, but I could still benefit from its resources. You know, I go up to New York and get the hell out of there. Now I have two houses. Yeah. You did all right. You did all right. Yeah.

It's going good. So how many people in the family played? Like what was the instruments? You know, just mainly guitar, little piano, mainly guitars. Yeah. Banjos, actually banjos. Oh, banjos, guitars? Like was your dad or mom musical people?

They're both like musical. My dad plays a violin a little. He picked it up later in life, but they're very encouraging, and they're musical. It's like in their blood. They're both like musical. My dad plays a violin a little. He picked it up later in life, but they're very encouraging and they're musical. It's like in their blood. Yeah. They're obsessive. Like my dad's obsessed with bluegrass. Oh, really?

So that's where the banjo thing comes from. He was hoping you'd do- Bluegrass in old time. Yeah. He was definitely hoping I would- Lock in. Yeah. Be a bluegrass player.

I guess. But he does, yeah, his favorite song of mine is i'm an outlaw which is on the last my previous album well the one that's out at the moment yeah uh he likes that one yeah because it's got the banjo you know country tinge to it i guess he just likes it that it's the banjo you know he like he i wanted a guitar yeah maybe when I was 13, and they were going to surprise me with one for my birthday or Christmas. But then I was being particularly bad that year or so, they said. But then not only that, they were like,

we were going to surprise you with a guitar, but you've been so bad you're not getting it. So anyway, the next year he's like, how aboutjo and then at first i was like i don't know banjo yeah and then i had a cousin who played music and he encouraged me he's like oh that's pretty unique and i'm like all right and then but really what really sold me is my dad drove septa trains you know septa are you are you from where are you from are you east coast i my i'm originally from jersey but i grew up in New Mexico so he drove

I don't know okay whatever yeah he just had one of his conductor friends who he was gonna buy the banjo off of play it over the phone

the telephone you know not the cell phone and it sounded so cool going through that phone he's like alright here's a little he held it up

so you could hear it yeah he's like here how's it going I'm gonna play this song and he just played some kind of I wish I remember the song. Cripple Creek or something. Who knows? It could be anything.

Foggy Mountain Breakdown. It's one of those like. Yeah, Foggy Mountain Breakdown. Great song. Yeah, great, yeah. So he plays it over the phone and that sounded appealing. Yeah, and so then I got it for my 14th birthday. Five stringer?

Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. That's tuned to an open what? Open G, usually. Yeah. Did you take to it? Yeah, I took to it. Well, that wasn't even my first instrument.

In elementary school, I played the trumpet in school, so I could always pick up the instruments pretty quick. Yeah? Trumpet's a good one. Yeah, I pick it up nostalgically sometimes and just blow a few notes in it but I'm definitely not like fluent in it and plus you know with the trumpet you got to have the embouchure what's that it's like that word it has to do with the way you I don't even know for sure is it I know from like the Miles Davis book

everybody uses that word with trumpet. You're like, oh, you got to get your embouchure back. Oh, like the stream of air into it? Maybe that or just the, I don't even know. Is it like the way you put your mouth into it? I actually don't really know. Yeah, but you might as well throw the word around. Why not?

Yeah. Usually people know what it means, and they don't ask me what it means. I'm sorry I called you on it. I apologize. I'm just curious. Now I'm going to have to look it up later. I hope you get it back, whatever it is. I will.

Once I look it up. So banjo is a pretty hard instrument to integrate into rock and roll. Ah, well, I guess, but I would say that... You only did it on that one song? No, no, I've played it a bunch. I do play it. Even my wife, she likes when I get into the banjo again because it's got that ethereal thing.

It's like got the high drone string, so when you finger pick, you don't even have to hardly use any fingers. Yeah. I mean, on the fret hand. Yeah. And you just play these cyclicalical oh yeah it's kind of finger picking almost like a sitar ethereal thing yeah yeah it just puts you in the zone yeah yeah so and then also starting with the banjo i didn't i did take lessons and i would have otherwise gotten a guitar and they

would have taught me like standard tuning play these bar chords and because i started like with the open tuning yeah it kind of like in the world that i grew up in all of a sudden you know like sort of indie rock type of bands and sonic youth or whoever they're they're using like various tunings and then once i that was nothing new to me because you know banjo banjo banjo guy yeah not surprising me with that open tuning i'm a banjo guy yeah well i it's weird because i have this weird thing with the gallows pole you know the led zeppelin song uh-huh because there's a banjo in there and like i've i i've often thought that it would be

better without it well that's the suit yeah when you when you add a banjo but play it in a rock setting but still play like like everybody's like that's corny all right so you're playing banjo and you're do you like hang out do you like i play guitar with my brother do you have brothers playing guitar did you guys do family stuff? Did you jam together? We jammed a little. Then I would just jam with my friends. When was the first band? Pretty soon after 15, 16.

I can't, somewhere maybe closer to 16. But I had a friend that, I mean, basically a year later, somebody gave me, a neighbor across the street gave me a guitar because they always heard me playing the banjos. And they were like, enough already. No, they just, they probably thought it was a guitar. They're like, oh, I see you like guitar.

Here's another guitar. Really? No, they must have known. You live next door to leprechauns? But they were, yeah. No. Yeah. Here's your guitar. Nochauns? But they were, yeah. No. Yeah. Here's your guitar.

No, no. Actually, they were very nice. They were nothing like that. They were just supportive, you know. Yeah, it's nice. Because we were always on the porch playing. But not even an open porch. One of nine kids out there.

I guess at some point there was a kid somewhere outside all the time. Yeah. There's two of them. I'm still nostalgic. I think about that because I never, all you could really do is play in your driveway or just all across everybody else's front lawns. Right. Or in the street.

Yeah. Which, that doesn't fly today. Yeah. But I am nostalgic about driveways. I still don't have the right driveway in my house. Do you have a good driveway? You don't like your driveway? No.

What's the matter with it? It just goes downhill. It's not the right. You can't run up and down, ride your bike. I can't ride my tricycle on it. You can't ride your kid's bike. I can't ride my big wheel on it. On your driveway?

Or my... Too big of an angle? Yeah. Sorry, man. It's all right. Is there any way to make it a driveway that you like? No. Oh.

It's all right. That was so random. That's kind of how I talk sometimes. No, there's no problem. I mean, I know the feeling. I had to replace a driveway in my old house. This driveway is all fucked up, but this would be a good driveway if I put cement on it. Does it go straight back?

It goes straight right out from the front to the street. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Did your driveway have a basketball hoop on it on the garage? No, but neighbors did. Oh, so you just go across the street? But I had a next-door neighbor, and he was my age. We would just ride.

Well, he had like one of those, what's the show? What's the show with Waylon Jenningsong? The Dukes of Hazzard. He had the Dukes of Hazzard bike. Oh, really? Like the car. Yeah. And I just had a regular big wheel, but we'd go back and forth all day.

The good old days. The stuff you did at first was all sort of self-generated, right? A lot of it? Yeah. I mean, I don't, are you talking about my, the first CD? Yeah. Okay. Well, by the time that first CD came out, I don't know.

Let's see. Those are mostly my home recordings. The very first song, Freeway, was recorded by Brian McTeer, this guy in Philly. That was like my first studio recording, I guess. Yeah. But when I was like 20 to 21, like 21 to 23, I lived for two years basically in boston and i and out there i got like this i got one of those rolling digital eight tracks and um was but i was working this crappy job so i could where it was like an air freight company eagle air air freight driving a forklift it's like a

really eagle air freight wait how'd you get into in Boston? Because my wife, my girlfriend at the time, she was like getting her master's. Oh. Anyway, so... Driving a forklift. Yeah, it was brutal. With dreams. The worst. Oh, yeah.

And they preyed on me instantly like the lifers. Oh, yeah. You ever see like, you saw The Departed or something? Yeah, sure. You know that accent, but they're just like, yo, Flamer. Flamer? Yeah. He's like.

He calls you like a flaming guy, yeah. Yeah, you're fucking Flamer. What the fuck? All the time. He's like, what's the name of your record label? Bonehead Records? And I'm like 20 like in a like literal blue suit oh my god i didn't even mean to go back so far but i in that time i was alone a lot

or you know with my with my thing and i was buying a lot of gear and so i was doing the home recording thing but then by the time 2008 that's when constant hit maker came out and that's when i had like a collection of of uh to choose from of all my best home recordings and that's what that is oh that so that so it is sort of like a greatest hits of stuff that so that's what constant hit makers yeah it goes from 2003 to 2008 so okay so like just before that then like so like when you're in Philly and you put the, when do you meet Adam and start, like, doing that stuff? I met Adam in 2003 when I moved back to Philly from Boston.

Oh, so that was after. And I moved into Northern Liberties. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, we were buddies and we played together. We definitely played together kind of right away, but it didn't get serious. Or we had a next kind of right away but it didn't get serious or we had a next wave of getting serious and i'd say from 2005 yeah to 2008 that's when all you know we

he would play with me a ton in my band or like at first it was just me and him kind of like a duo and then i would play in the war on drugs with with him. And then eventually, like, the Violators evolved out of that, and so did the War on Drugs. So those are two different directions, but it was a few of the same crew? Well, I would say, yeah, that whole thing. I mean, the Violators was definitely like there were set members in the band, like four members that all have pivotal roles. That's kind of always the way the Violators were,

and me and Adam, but we were just always playing music together. members they all have pivotal roles that's kind of always the way the violators were and and definitely and me and adam but there we were just always playing music together uh recording at his house so um so whether it be end up on my thing or the war on drugs you know it just depended but did you you were sort of in you were on the first war on drugs record i'm on the first war on drugs record yeah yeah and then it was you sort of went your separate ways in a way yeah i mean i as as glad i as i am that i was on that record and stuff i adam always knew i was obsessed with my own thing always and yeah in fact and i but yeah so I got to go to Europe for the first time through the war on drugs. Yeah.

And I was like, I'm stoked to do this, but you have to let me open. So, I mean, I opened, you know. You did? Yeah. But like, you know, I convinced Adam, you know, after he wasn't as busy with the war on drugs. Yeah.

I'm very grateful because he played on my Smoke Ring record and he toured, and the Childish Prodigy, the first Mad grateful because he played on my Smoke Ring record and he toured and the Childish Prodigy, the first Madder record he played on. Like that's all violators. Yeah. You know, Adam, Jesse, my old drummer, Mike Zhang. So anyway, like I'm just grateful that I got Adam to continue to tour in the violators a little longer because otherwise I don't know what I would have done.

He was really, he was really in done. He was really in the pocket. He was really a pivotal member of the band. And helped you define yourself too, I guess, probably. Yeah, I think we both helped each other out. And you guys still friends? Yeah, definitely. Is he around Philly too still? I think he bought a place in Philly,

but he's not there that often. It's interesting. There are guys that play, like the War on Drugs too, but you as well. There are guys that play and they never really find their own groove, but you have your own thing. You listen to it and it's sort of like, oh, yes, Kurt Weill. There's no denying, there's no question about it. That's right. But it's not easy to you know what i mean it's it's not everybody has that

well i'm i'm also lucky that imagine if well it's not like you heard it but i'm like i'm glad i had time to like figure it out because like like that first constant hit maker, there's tons of, I put out tons of CD-Rs before then, and they're fine. I mean, there's moments on them, but like it took me a while. I didn't have anything come out on a real label until I was 28, 29, so I had time to fine tune my sound.

And I almost think I was never going to make it or something, you know? Well, I mean, when you say CD-Rs, like how, well, let me go back again just for a minute. So when you get your first guitar and then you're still hanging out at home and stuff like how are you finding you know you're in the suburbs of philly but yeah i mean you're younger than me what are you like 39 or something i'm 38 yeah i'll be 39 so what kind of musical sources are you drawing from where are you getting your musical education

well you know what i mean i'm not talking about playing i'm just talking about what informs your of musical sources are you drawing from? Where are you getting your musical education? Well... You know what I mean? I'm not talking about playing. I'm just talking about what informs your taste. I mean, I've always been pretty obsessive, so I got obsessed

with most bands. You know, like, you know, I loved the Smashing Pumpkins that I probably wrote them off later or something,

you know, a little or something. Like, I'm like, no, this is the new... And different classic things that my dad played,

like Credence, I loved right away. Some things I loved right away. You know, Hendrix I is the new sound. And different classic things that my dad played, like Credence, I loved right away. Some things I loved right away. You know, Hendrix I loved as a kid. I had an early CD. Like, I mean, my early CDs were like a collection of Jimi Hendrix or something. Yeah. But then, you know, once like all these sort of more indie rock type of bands, the good ones.

Yeah. type of bands, the good ones, like, you know, anywhere from Pavement, Sonic Youth, Dinosaur Junior, you know, and a lot of Drag City. Yeah. Tons of the Drag City stuff. You like the Drag City stuff. Yeah, Palace Brothers, Silver Jews. I still, I mean, David Berman is definitely a hero. He's so great.

He's so good. Have you hung out with him? I have. It's a lot, right? I've managed to pull him out. Yeah? It took me a few times to get through a lot, right? I've managed to pull him out. Yeah? It took me a few times to get through to him. And finally, I remember one day I called him while I was in town for a gig.

In Nashville? Yeah, and he actually, I think that was the last test because I called him. He didn't answer, or maybe he even answered and hung up, but then he showed up at the gig. Oh, that's nice. I don't know what he's up to now. He's doing stuff. He's going to come back and break everybody's heart again. Yeah.

Drag City, yeah. Do you like the Bonnie Prince, Billy stuff? Yeah, I loved Palace I grew up on. Yeah, definitely. I like the Bonnie Prince, Billy stuff too, but I guess I'm nostalgic. I was getting those seven inches and all the early records

as they were coming out oh right but yeah I like all all versions of that yeah who else is on there Joanna Newsom

Bill Callahan yeah I mean sure I like I love actually Joanna Newsom's newest record that record's incredible

I don't know if you've heard the last one or is there one Divers yeah yeah yeah that one's really good but I she came a little later so i didn't that was that wasn't like my teens growing up on that stuff so drag city was the hip sort of like this is new

cutting edge yeah but weird and accessible like yeah um so you know nobody was playing too hot hot of licks that they were unreachable right right right seemed like hey that sounds like the guy next door. Yeah. Or like he's just playing in his room, that guy. Yeah. Yeah, so it seemed possible. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. It's important to have that. So that was sort of your template. Like, you know, I can do this and I can do it myself if I have to. Right. And I definitely, I had friends, good, I was friends, to this day I'm really good friends with a group who, they had a band and then their brothers.

The youngest, my friend was Dan, you know, Dan Park, and then there's these two older Park brothers and they both, they would record their brother's band, but then at different times, first it was Bob, then it was Dave, they would record my stuff. So like, you know, the whole home recording or semi-studio recording, Bob, then it was Dave. They had to record my stuff. So like, you know, the whole home recording or semi-studio recording, I was doing it pretty early. I wasn't doing it myself.

I would record on a tape recorder in my room, but I was in the quote unquote studio since I was a teen. Right. And I'd put out a CD-R and be like,

call it my album. Yeah. And they were like, oh, my next album is going to, but it's not really an album. But what did you do with the CD-Rs? Like, how did you? You know, I would give them going to be... It's not really an album. But what did you do with the CD-Rs? Like, how did you...

You know, I would give them out to people. Yeah. I became known, you know... As the CD-R guy? Yeah, or, like, actually, no. I have one tape. Yeah. I was, you know, as a teen,

I would play, like, this Marple Newtown coffee house. You know, I was, like, the star of that... Scene? Stupid... I actually wasn't stupid. I don't mean... Yeah. But I was the star of that scene i actually wasn't stupid i don't mean yeah but i was the star of that scene yeah like just you and your guitar yeah with my tape yeah more i meant to say with my stupid tape you know your your album your tape of your my next album is gonna be killer

you still got any of those tapes who's got the tape yeah i got them on yeah you just go get like hundreds of them ran off yeah yeah so you still got a box yeah i actually still have a box of the uh the covers and the and the um the cases because we accidentally got too many of those. Yeah. But it's so funny. You have them. It's so funny when you self-produce stuff. Man, I have...

Yeah, you must have some tapes or some CD-Rs. Some CDs that I made. Yeah, like that I ordered from the guy. You know what I mean? Like you design a cover. I didn't even get the gem box. I just got the envelope for the CD. Yeah.

And I made a cover design that I couldn't even use. And there's like a few hundred of those in my storage space. Well, I- I threw them away. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you, luckily at the very end, like my last few CD-Rs, say seven of them, when I actually started, okay, in 2003,

I started just using my regular name kurt vile yeah and um and and those i have like a good handful of maybe seven different non-albums let's call them but they're they're pretty cool because i would go to kinko's and get the nice hard paper and yeah and print it out like uh like it's a vinyl then you fold it and you put it in the plastic thing except it's a little cd yeah and it and you put it in the plastic thing, except it's a little CD. Yeah. And it made them look really cool. Right. Like a collage or whatever. Yeah.

And I will say, I don't know how kids, I guess they just use Bandcamp. It's just a different time. So maybe, but still, nowadays people just send you a link of their stuff. And I hate links. Yeah. So at least I could just hand people something, you know? No, it's nice. It was tactile.

It was a different time. you know what I mean? Like everything became part of the creative process. Yeah. Yeah, as opposed to just like a link. I hate links. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, when somebody hands you a tape where they made the cover and they packed it themselves or even a record. I mean, you got records on the wall.

You know, that's what people like. They like it. All your records are nice. Usually they open them up. Yeah. You know, there's stuff, good pictures, you got records on the wall. You know, that's what people like. They like it. All your records are nice. Usually, they open them up. Yeah. You know, there's stuff, good pictures, you know, words and things. You know? Like, it seems early on, on some of the really early stuff,

there was a lot more psychedelic weirdness going on. Is that possible? In what ones? The early ones? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's because, like, think about it. I'm no, like, professional recorder. Yeah.

So, like, the weirder, the more effects you can put on something and add some analog synth weirdness, like, the cooler it'll sound. Otherwise, it's just, like, you know, direct into some digital machine. It's not going to sound very good. Right. So, you had to hide the fact that you were a kid. Well, I think that's part of the reason, but i was also just into that psychedelic yeah the sound you wanted to be a pushy edge you know get the yeah get the noise get get the noise going yeah i still i'm i'm

nostalgic about that i'm trying to get back to those roots because it seems like you got pretty confident in terms of like how you produce your voice your voice is really sort of up front now and you can like you know hear it and you can hear it, and you can hear the words, and you can talk. Yeah, that's true. There was definitely a lot of delay on the vocals in the old days. Right. Just like you're in some sort of a storage container.

Yeah. So what was the... So once you... When you stopped doing the kind of homemade shit, what's the process of recording now? You got guys that you've been with forever? Well, I have a bunch of guys that I like to work with. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't know if I'll ever, who knows? I don't know if I'll find this producer ever again and be like oh no like i'm just saying like yeah like just work with one person like maybe but i doubt i now i work with like multiple people uh rob like rob schnapp is a guy i work with in la yeah and he uh i really like to work with him he's like got a great ear and like some of my poppiest jams like Pretty Pimpin' he did some of my favorites

on this record he did and then there's a guy on the east coast Peter Kadis I recorded with him with the Violators he did like Interpol

and all that stuff obviously we're nothing like that but he's got a he's an engineer whiz as well yeah he rescued my last record. I believe I'm going down. Because we ran out of time.

We had to mix it. It was due. And he finished mixing like a ton of songs and made them sound great in like just a few days. Yeah. So then on this record, we went back. I went back with the band and had them record some of the songs. And then, yeah. Because he saved the songs. He's like, this guy's not helping. Well, I was like, well, he saved the record. Maybe he some of the songs. And then, yeah. Because he saved the songs?

I was like, well, he saved the record. Maybe he can save the band. But it turns out, you know, no one person can save the band. Can save a band? Yeah. It takes a band to save a band. Yeah. Tell me about, like, the last album,

or the one before, Believe believe, I'm Going Down. Yeah. It's sort of a blues trope. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So you're a blues guy? Well, yeah.

I actually forget to mention the blues lately because anything time I get into anything, I get so deep into it that people ask me again, and I'm like, this is on my new trip. But yeah, like Delta Blues charlie patton john hurt yeah that lick that hurt does that little that little bend that uh yeah yeah yeah i mean those those are the obvious ones and there's tons there's tons um yeah fred mcdowell yeah love fred mcdowell crazy so like that's a recent one for you? That's recent stuff? Like getting into that? No, I got into that. I got heavy into that, I'd say, starting when I was in Boston, like 2000, 2001. The forklift era?

Yeah, but it was only an extension of, I made some cool friends out there in Boston, like who were actually going to college when I should be. Right. Except I was like the dude, the kind of shy, weird guy who would have to gut up early and drive the forklift when he's hanging out with these college kids that are like smoking weed and like listening to Brian Eno. And they turned me, this kid turned me on to John Fahey. You know, obviously he's, you know, John Fahey. Yeah. Like he's like a student of the people, like Charlie, he wrote a book about Charlie Patton

in college or whatever. But anyway, I remember I saw that this kid had the American Folk Anthology and I was like, oh, my dad has that. And my dad was playing like Bull Weevil and all that stuff. Bull Weevil Blues. Yeah. And then I just, I was like, oh, well, I guess it's cool, you know. Yeah. And I grew up on like Doc Watson and all that kind of stuff. Sure. And my dad cool, you know. Yeah. And I grew up on, like, Doc Watson and all that kind of stuff.

Sure. But then my dad was. Bluegrass. Yeah. So then I remember I went home on a break, and I went to, like, the Bluegrass Festival with my dad. Yeah. And I bought all these CDs, like, all these blues, tons of blues CDs.

Yeah. I just got deep into all that stuff. It's good, right? Of course. I mean, it informs everything as well. Fahey, I think he and a couple other guys went and found Skip James. Yeah. Right?

There's a chapter about that in his book. Oh, yeah? How Bluegrass Music Destroyed My Life. Is that what that is? That's the name of the Fahey book? The Fahey book, yeah. Did you have a record store that you went to when you were a kid? Well, when I was a kid, I had a CD store. Yeah. At first, I went to when you were a kid? I, well, when I was a kid I had a CD store.

Yeah. At first I went to see our CDs but yeah, then I would go into town to get like seven inches and once I realized that there was

stuff you couldn't get like, like, that wasn't on, stuff on vinyl, you know, like exclusive stuff on vinyl.

Yeah. So yeah, in the 90s I would go into town and go to Philadelphia Record Exchange. Oh, yeah? Is that a famous place?

It's famous among, you know... You guys? Maybe it should be more famous, but then it was on South Street, and, yeah, like, people come... Like, there's the owner, JC, he's from that band, the Strapping Fieldhands. I don't know if you ever heard of them

or the Silt Breeze label, like, all those early Dead Sea records.hands I don't know if you ever heard of them or the Silk Breeze label like all those early Dead Sea records no I don't know anything about them what kind of music seems like you it's like weird

lo-fi yeah well the Dead Sea's from New Zealand it's like a they're a Flying Nun band oh yeah the Flying Nun

I got some of that stuff that's pretty stuff it's pretty noisy stuff really some of the Flying Nun stuff. Oh, the Flying Nun. I thought we were still talking about the Dead Sea. Sorry. But you said they're a Flying Nun band or they're not?

They were. Oh, oh. Yeah. Too noisy for Flying Nun? They kicked them off? No. They were. No.

Yeah. But so this guy had his own label and he ran the place. Well, I got another guy, Tom Lacks. He had the Silk Breeze label and he worked at the record exchange at one point, or all kinds of... So it's interesting, though. So it's a place that had definitely... It was a curated situation because you had guys with points of view about music, and it was like one of those classic record stores where you'd go in and they'd lay down some wisdom, right? Yeah, totally. right yeah yeah and you're like oh you know yeah i found like all the early drag city pavement

yeah uh eps before it was too hard to find them or something oh he had them they had them down there i'm there yeah so like it's always good to like so you're like 20 when you're going in there 18 18 17 18 a young mind these old suburban mind mind. These old bitter record guys with their labels. Yeah. Dumping stuff in your head. Yeah, like, I don't, I mean, like, how's this record? You know, young and impressionable. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, you know. Yeah, yeah. They shoot you right down. Yeah, yeah. Not as good as the first one, which you can't get anymore. I don't know. Yeah. No, but they're cool.

I still know. I still go see them to this day yeah yeah great guys what do you think that you learned the most

like what do you think really blew your mind like from those guys like what changed your thinking like in dealing with the cause I'm always curious

about the dudes that turn people on to things like I know who my guys are well I'll tell you later on yeah

the one guy they call Harmonica Dan cause he's always jamming harmonica with different sets. Like, in fact, were you ever into Jack Rose, by the way, speaking of John Fahey? Jack Rose. He passed away, but he was an incredible guitar player. I don't know.

He caught the John Fahey torch. He's from Philly. Oh, yeah? Okay. Great. You should, yeah, you got it. I'll write that down, too. But anyway, one time time he this is after

they knew who i was and yeah you know yeah he just he gave me a randy newman record he's like i got that i put that aside for you and i was like really randy newman and uh which one it was the one with short people and i was that's knew. I was like, short people? Little criminals? Yeah. But then Baltimore, that song blew my mind. And then a little later, I got Sail Away. And it just destroyed me. And I would burn these things on the CD-R and just take them on the road with me. just take him on the road with me.

And, you know, when you realize that song, Sail Away, which is about, you know, getting, you know, slavery. Like, you don't even realize it. You're just like, I don't know. Like, his lyrics, he'll destroy you. Destroy. I interviewed him. It was one of the best days of my life.

That's amazing. Oh, I love the guy. Good old boys. The best. He's like, yes, baby, I've been drinking. That's the best song in the world. It just comes down to, he's like, you i've been drinking that's the best song in the world it just it just comes down to he's like you know i can't stand myself yeah it takes a whole lot of medicine for me to pretend that i'm somebody else the best dude that's like i just got chills that song kills me man i you know i met him and we interviewed i'm a huge fan so i interviewed him

and then like you know i told i told him I wanted to hang out sometime. So we went to this event where he was playing and I ended up emceeing it, but it was for Flea. It's a long story. It's Flea's Conservatory where he has a school that teaches kids and it's a fundraiser and Randy Newman was headlining and I asked him to play Guilty and he fucking played it. Oh man. What a tight song though, right? Yeah. And I did a cover of one of his later songs which one pretty boy oh it's like from

the album where he's mocking kiss on the cover yeah yeah money we got a tough guy here we got a tough guy from the streets yeah yeah yeah he's like looks just like that dancing wop from those movies that we've seen. You know that one? No. He's like, with his cute little chicken shit boots on. You know, he just, oh, man, he rips. What's that album called?

Born Again or something? Yes. Something like that? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I wonder if I have that one. I'm real hung up on that first four records. Well, you got, that one's got, and I heard from somebody

who. It's got, It's Money That I Love, right, is on there. It's Money That I Love. Yeah, It's Money That I Love.

Yeah. Or like, Hey Little Sheep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something about a little sheep. He's cutting,

man. Such a sweet guy. Very self-effacing, very, you know, like hard on himself. I saw him once and I've been a fan forever

and we played Harley Strictly Bluegrass Festival, the same stage. Yeah. And I just didn't even talk to him because I just saw him there, and I didn't know what to say. It was like I loved him so much

that for once I couldn't even, where do you start? Same with like Neil Young. Yeah. Like I meet him multiple times just for a second, but like how's he going to know? Yeah. How can you hold his attention, you know? So you didn't say anything to Neil either?

No, I've said things to Neil many, every time. You said things to him? Oh, yeah. I hope I have to. I'd like to see you guys talking to each other. He's kind of got an odd frequency, too. Yeah, I listen to your show. Yeah, that's something, man.

I didn't know how that was going to go. Yeah, I've gotten a couple funny interactions with him. Yeah? Yeah. What happened? Well, the one time I met him, the first time was just cool. So I'll blow through that. Yeah.

But then the second time, it wasn't that long ago, he played, it was the first time wasn't that long ago I he played it was the first time I saw him with the promise of the real and was incredible and I blew my mind like they back him up so good and I managed to get backstage cuz cuz I got on the list by like his day-to-day manager yeah Frank okay cuz Frank he manages hope Sandoval from the Mazzy Star. And they got me to sing with her on a song. So anyway, that was my connection. But I still had to reach out and see if it would happen.

And it happened that he got me on the list. And he's like, oh, I'd love to meet or something. I was like, oh, it's going to happen. It's going to happen. But then when it did finally happen, he just said hello for a minute after the show, and the show blew my mind. It was incredible. They played Down by the River for 30 minutes, and it was just unreal.

He would start as if he's going to the last verse after Space Jam, after Space Jam, and he would just come in and be like be on my side and then and then he wouldn't sing the rest of it you know he's just going to space again yeah fucking with your mind yeah but anyway so finally get back there and frank he's thank thank god for frank what a great guy but still i don't know him that well he just he's like all right well thank you it's great to meet you thank you for Hope. Well, we have a quick out. We have to leave, but it was nice to meet you. Of course, my heart sinks.

I thought it was like, it's going to happen. I'm going to meet Neil and blah, blah, blah. And I'm with my wife, Suzanne. And then we get back there. And I don't know. He's sitting there. So I finally get Frank says, oh, he introduced me to the young guys, the Nelson guys that back him up.

Willie's kids. Yeah, Willie's kids. So Neil is finally there, but nobody ever troubles Neil with anything. So Suzanne just had to basically nudge me. She's like, just say something to him. Just say hi. And I was like, Neil, something to him. Just say hi. Yeah. And I was like, how Neil? I've seen you a million times.

I'm friends with Gary. I got to say, tonight was the best by far. Down by the river, it was like you were in outer space, but underground at the same time. And he smiled at first, and then he was like, he just looked at me, he's like, oh, yeah, we can go in outer space whenever we want. I actually told that on the best show when it happened, because Tom Sharpling was there.

Yeah. So we summed it up. But anyway, and then, yeah, and then Suzanne was like, ask for a picture, ask for a picture. And I didn't want to, because I was like, I heard he doesn't do pictures. I was like, oh, can I get a picture? He's like, sure. I got a picture. But anyway, so then I met him a few times since then I'm always like it's always behind the stage I'm always drunk I always and I get like a little cynical because I'm always saying the same thing I'm like oh Kurt I met before

friends Gary yeah I always want to tell him about this band you ever see this band the Sadies no they're an incredible live band they're they're legends yeah they're friends with neil like uh the they're two brothers they shred you gotta see them live they're like country infused rock psychedelic rock and um so i always mean to tell neil because i know he likes to say i'm always like i mean to say i'm friends with the stays but i always forget but then the last time we we opened for Neil just recently in Quebec, like not a couple weeks ago even. Oh, yeah?

And it was like for this big festival. So there's like 90,000 people there. It's just us, then Neil. Oh, that must have been great. It was great. I definitely clammed up. Yeah? On stage?

Yeah, I clammed up. I never played for a crowd that big. Like I started with that song, Wheelhouse, which is a favorite song, but I just, like, flubbed one of the notes, and then I put me in. I lost it, you know. But anyway, so Neil... He fucked you up for the whole set? Most of it. So I just stood there. I mean, I played, but I stood there.

But anyway, Neil, they played an amazing set as usual, and we got to watch it from side stage. And then we were on the one side of the stage, and the other side of the stage is where they would get on and off. And so during the encore, I mean, I know a lot of the guys now. I know the Promise of the Real guys. I've played with them at Willie's Ranch. So I'm buddies a little bit with plenty of them

but not Neil. So anyway they go off for the encore and they're all passing around this joint. Yeah. And then I ran with my wife and we got the joint and we started smoking it so we're like, and Neil hit it. So we're smoking that joint and then finally the same thing sort're like a neil neil hit it but uh so we're smoking that

joint and then finally the same thing sort of happens they all come off the stage i'm hugging like lucas and everybody and they're like great show but but neil has this orb around him you're like you can't yeah you know yeah like uh daryl hand is there with a giant lollipop like hugging neil everybody's like around neil's and so they're going down the exit in the back, like a zigzag, you know? Yeah. And he gets a little further away every time. And finally, because we're like a little stoned,

I'm like, well, I just won't talk to him, you know? And then she's like, well, just, I was like, I just wanted to give him this Sadie CD. And then she's like, well, just jump down and give it to him because it's the last level we were like on this level and they're down there before he gets in the on the bus so then I jumped down and I was like hey Neil I was like hey Neil you hear the new Sadie's and I knew he knew him but the way I did it because we were stoned it looked like this dude came out of nowhere and it was like Elliot Roberts literally held up his elbow like like to block me yeah he's like hey everyone's like whoa whoa and I was like Elliot Roberts literally held up his elbow like to block me.

Yeah. He was like, hey, everyone's like, whoa, whoa. And I was like, I don't know. And then I gave him the CD

and then, I don't know. That's basically the story. Was he into it or you don't know? he was looking at it. They're his friends but like everybody was blocked.

I just came out of nowhere. I understand. But even, I talked to Elliot. He's obviously a legend too and I was like, Elliot. I was like, Elliot. But I understand. But even, I talked to Elliot. He's obviously a legend too. And I was like, Elliot. I was like,

Elliot. But I didn't even see that he blocked me with his arm. Suzanne watched. She was all up on the top level laughing. Yeah.

We were stoned on their weave and just laughing and this old dude's like holding up the elbow like they're going to block me. And then all of a sudden, Elliot was like,

oh. He's like, he looked all confused because then when he realized it was like oh he's like he looked all confused because the one who realizes me is like oh Kurt what and then and he's like just give it to me he's not gonna listen to it anyway or something like that which is not true yeah cuz he didn't know was the Sadie's but then I said to Elliot I was like Elliot I I just I I'm Kurt I opened I I just wanted to, and he's like, the Sadies, I know. I was like, he's like,

he just, we just didn't know who you were. Right, right. He didn't know who you were. I'm like, well, that's kind of

always sort of, maybe it's not the thing. Maybe most people just talk to somebody like a normal person. It's always awkward. But, it's always awkward,

especially when you have reverence for somebody. Oh my God. I think they're all, it's such an honor when you have reverence for somebody oh my god i think they're all it's such an honor to have been able to get near and see so many shows and and i just feel like they're like oh kurt you know yeah we know kurt he's a good kid but you gotta watch him he might steal your wallet he'll jump out of nowhere and scare you. You got to watch him. He's trying to talk to Neil. Here he comes again.

The kid's here. Yeah. Well, even like when I talk to McCartney, like you get into the zone with it and you have the moment, but then when it's over, you're like, I'm just like one of those guys. You know, I'm one of those guys. But you're not.

That's the thing, right? But you're also not. Like you want him to know. You want them to know. You want them to know. You want them to know. How many people have opened for Neil Young from the beginning of time? In my mind, it's like, I'm another guy who interviewed McCartney. Was it amazing for me?

Am I grateful? Yes. Is it a different format? Yes. Would I do different than other people? Sure. But in his life, you know what I mean? I don't know.

You want to make an impression, but who knows if you know what i mean you like i don't know what you want to make an impression but who knows if you do really you see he's a well that's why he's so great is because he uh who neil yeah he won't let yeah well paul mccartney's great too obviously but i like i'm just like neil he'll he just won't be bothered he'll just focus on his thing and it's nothing personal and in fact one day no exactly talk yeah I mean he was real cool on your show I like once I once I sort of got through the gauntlet mm-hmm you know he was really cool yeah but like he definitely tests people and he definitely is gonna you know make you work it for a minute. But he's like an amazing artist. So wait, let's talk about this new record before we space it out.

But I also wanted to ask you about the John Cale thing. That was at the end of the Courtney. I did this record with Courtney Barnett recently, and we did one tour. But at the very end of it, I ended up at last minute got invited to play this John Cale Velvet Underground, what do you call it, anniversary. Yeah. And it was, that was awesome. He's a trip. Yeah.

I sat in on Big White Cloud on guitar and I got to sing and play on Run, Run, Run. That's a great song. Are you a Velvet guy? Yeah, of course. That's just sort of like when you... The basics. Yeah, but that's also like when you're a blues guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Of course, I'm a Velvet Underground fan, but I consumed that in my teens. Sure. But still, of course. Yeah, I still listen to it. So the new record, in terms of how you approached it, was it any different than the last one in terms of production and stuff?

What are the big changes for you on this one? What made you go, like, I'm doing this different? Basically, the biggest difference is that I would record in between tours or trips, like, just in normal life. Like, go record for a couple days here and then keep going, as opposed to, like, do some long album tour and

start an album from scratch yeah uh after all the touring is done i can't stomach that anymore it makes me want to vomit so i just kind of like live it yeah i just go in and out of the studio like while you're in route like play a show yeah and then you're in california or and then you you know just go into the studio and stay't stay in as long. For a week. Yeah, like a couple days. Knock out the whole record. Yeah. A couple songs at a time? Yeah, or even a song.

Yeah. So you've got like a sort of travelogue. It's just kind of real life. That's where I'm at. So it unfolded in sort of a real-life way. Like each song, there was times between each song. Yeah, and there were plenty of songs left over. I've just kind of been recording the whole time.

I've been on the road for the last record, really. I made that record with Courtney. I just made several records within... I've been recording kind of the whole time. I made that Courtney record. So this, like, in other words, the difference was you're sort of outliving life, and you drop into the studio, do a song, maybe two songs, and it was sort of,

like were the songs being written when you came back to record one? Did you already have it in the pocket? A lot of times I'll get inspired. I have certain songs in the pocket for sure that I know I want to record, but a lot of times when I have a studio date coming up, I'll get inspired and write more songs. The newer the song in the studio, the better.

Well, it's a great record. It sounds like a Curve Vile record, and I thought it was great I enjoy listening to him I like it you brought up the zone it seems like you're very good at

getting in the zone that you get you create an atmosphere with your music and it's like it's relaxing and it's sort of ethereal oh thanks man

is that what you're shooting for I guess it depends well it doesn't make me anxious is what I'm saying yeah well that's I know I can I can feel anxious I got certain songs that are

real chill but they're about like being terrified on the airplane like I'm on the way to the studio I'm sort of think I'm gonna die so write down these lyrics and then it all sounds like stop this plane cuz I wanna get up but um yeah but I will say about the John Cale thing when I did the very last song which is really long, it's called Skinny Minnie, but there's like insane guitar solos. I wrote those lyrics while I was backstage waiting to go on for the John Cale. Yeah.

I don't know. So that's sort of another example of just kind of do it all, just kind of live it. On the very last KV Courtney Barnett show in Austin, we had one last sound check, and I had this guitar jam, and then I just put it right into my looper, you know, and it stores loops. And then I went straight from there to John Cale,

and then it was just inspiring atmosphere. I had my own backstage room, and so I started playing the loop, and then I heard the song in my head, and then it was just inspiring atmosphere I had my own backstage room and so I started playing the loop and then I heard the song in my head and then a few days later I was supposed to go into the studio again so then I had this jam you know right so that's what it did yeah that's what we started with oh that's it's so that's right so it's it's probably a better way to work really to stay open through the whole process just by living life yeah totally and it's not like I was like, this is my theory.

No, right. That's just the way it is. This is my theory. I'm going to. Yeah. I'm going to tour, go in the studio for one song, and then tour, and then do a John Cale event. And backstage, I will write the lyrics.

It worked, though. It worked. Maybe it'll be your system. It was good talking to you, man. Okay. You good? Yeah. If you are. I am. Okay, though. It worked. Maybe it'll be your system. It was good talking to you, man. Okay. You good? Yeah, if you are. I am.

Okay, good. That was cool, man. He's an interesting dude. He left his hat here. I had to send it back to him. What was that hat? I think it was a Waylon Jennings hat, in my recollection. It seemed important. Because if you have something as specific as a Waylon Jennings hat, you're going to want that hat back.

I got it back to him. Kurt's new record, Bottle In, comes out this Friday October 12th. You can get it wherever you get music. Don't forget to grab yourself a paperback copy of our book, Waiting for the Punch. It's out next Tuesday October 16th, but you can pre-order your copy now at mark maron book.com okay you can do that okay or click on the book link at wtfpod.com right you got it no more waiting for waiting for the punch i've been getting a lot of feedback for this echo pedal that Tall Wilkenfeld gave me. Everything is not okay, but it might be okay with you.

If you look around your life and your loved ones, it might be okay. That's the micro. Keep the macro in mind. All right? Vote it up. so Boomer lives! Boomer lives! We'll be right back. Almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.